Beauty and the Biz: Recent Episodes
Catherine Maley, MBA
Learn the Tactics and Strategies to take your Cosmetic Practice to the Next Level.
Catherine has helped many practices double or even triple their revenue, all while creating a magnetic environment that encourages word-of-mouth referrals and repeat patients. Her proven, dynamic approach to marketing, advertising, sales and customer relations has been continually developed and refined for over 40 years.
Starting as an interdisciplinary Staff Coordinator with the Illinois State Medical Society and then as director of the House of Delegates for the California Medical Association, Catherine has been helping physicians and businesses reach their goals since the mid-80βs. This early experience laid the groundwork for understanding and overcoming the unique challenges, threats and opportunities facing physicians.
With this knowledge and experience acquired, Catherine spent the next 15 years developing and perfecting her marketing and sales techniques with various Fortune 500 companies. Her natural understanding of business gave her the edge to remain in the top 15% of all sales people nationwide. Her great successes would eventually land her the titles of National Sales Manager, Marketing Manager, and Product Development Manager for two Silicon Valley startups.
From her own personal experiences, Catherine witnessed a great need for practices to develop their customer service skills and learn the delicate dance of converting consults into patients. Now, armed with her top-performing sales and marketing experience coupled with her business knowledge of the medical sector, Catherine had all the tools necessary to begin coaching, training, and marketing specifically for aesthetic surgeons and their staff. She had the experience, drive, and passion to make her clients a great success.
With her stellar track record and solid business advice, Catherine is a rock star in the industry and is in great demand. Both as a consultant with word-wide clients, and as a speaker and lecturer at medical conferences all over North America, Europe and Oceania. She regularly contributes to the top medical trade publications in the industry and has been featured in the New York Times, Newsweek, ABC, ABC News, and others.
Catherine has consulted with the top surgeons in the world as well as with industry vendors. Her creative team of designers, copywriters, web developers, videographers, mail houses and print shops provide custom products, services, and consulting to aesthetic physicians who are ready to take their practice to the next level.
Catherine and her consultation practice are located in the San Francisco Bay town of Sausalito, California.
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ Anthony Admire, MD, explains his extremely lean start and then growing to multiple plastic surgery practice locations.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Extremely lean start to multiple locations. Specifically, learn how to grow from one employee to multiple locations and a multi-specialty surgery center. First, Dr. Anthony Admire is a board-certified plastic surgeon. Additionally, he is the founder of AdmireMD Plastic Surgery and AdmireMD Skin & Wellness Clinic. Specifically, these clinics are located in Scottsdale and Arcadia, Arizona. Currently, his operation includes two locations. Furthermore, he owns full-service aesthetic and wellness clinics. Moreover, he operates a 16,000-square-foot multispecialty surgery center. However, that is not how he started. Initially, Dr. Admire opened his private practice with minimal resources.
- Namely, he had one employee and two treatment rooms.
- Additionally, he operated in less than 1,000 square feet.
- Plus, he had no Instagram or dedicated marketing team.
- Likewise, he avoided business loans.
Instead, he answered the phones and responded to inquiries himself. Furthermore, he removed sutures and handled his own marketing. Therefore, his advice to younger surgeons is simple. Ultimately, you must stay lean. Now, tune in to this week's "Beauty and the Biz" podcast. Accordingly, Dr. Admire shares his strategic evolution. Gradually, he moved away from doing nearly every type of plastic surgery. Eventually, he built a highly focused and sophisticated aesthetic practice. Specifically, you will hear his growth strategies on "Beauty and the Biz".
- First, he transitioned from an exhausting university position into private practice.
- Next, he expanded without starting with an expensive office.
- Then, he built a multispecialty ambulatory surgery center.
- Later, he brought in strategic partners.
- Afterwards, he sold 51% to a hospital network.
- Additionally, he learned to track profit and loss statements.
- Similarly, he mastered tracking the cost of goods, provider compensation, and patient acquisition.
Thus, do not add more space or overhead yet. Rather, listen to how Dr. Admire built his foundation first on the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast. Consequently, he expanded only when the practice could support it.
Ultimately, Dr. Admire built strategically by understanding his numbers. Furthermore, he controlled expenses and focused on growth. Similarly, your Practice Performance Audit gives you that same objective view of your practice. Consequently, you can stop guessing and make smarter decisions.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Dr. Admire's Website
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ Neil Vranis, MD, based on his own experience in Beverly Hills, CA, explains how to leave a plastic surgery practice with relationships intact.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
How to Leave a Practice with Relationships Intact. Dr. Neil Vranis shares what he learned inside an elite Beverly Hills practice before opening his own. Notably, I speak with Dr. Neil Vranis in this week's "Beauty and the Biz" podcast. Undoubtedly, he is a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in Beverly Hills. Previously, he completed his fellowship with world-renowned plastic surgeon Dr. Ashkan Ghavami. Subsequently, Dr. Vranis was invited to join the practice. Notably, he became its first associate surgeon.
Thereafter, he spent the next three years learning firsthand. Specifically, he learned what it takes to operate inside an elite, highly competitive aesthetic practice. Eventually, he made the decision to open his own boutique office. Importantly, this represents The Smart Way to Transition from Associate to Owner. Fortunately, it was not a bitter breakup. Instead, it was a thoughtful and respectful transition. Chiefly, this move was based on communication, gratitude and a shared desire to preserve the relationship.
Additionally, Dr. Vranis shares valuable lessons about What Every Junior Associate Should Know Before Going Solo.
- Particularly, he discusses joining an established surgeon's practice and earning the team's respect.
- Furthermore, he explains why a senior surgeon must actively position and market an associate.
- Obviously, they cannot simply hope patients choose them.
- Moreover, he reveals how to build your own reputation while practicing under a well-known surgeon's name.
- Interestingly, he believes many solo practices are operationally inefficient.
- Likewise, he details how to know when there is no longer room to grow.
- Ultimately, he teaches the mature way to leave a practice with relationships intact.
Undeniably, one of the biggest takeaways is that a respected surgeon's name can open doors. However, patients ultimately choose the surgeon rather than just the practice name. Regardless, this is an honest conversation worth hearing. Certainly, it applies whether you are considering bringing on an associate or deciding to venture out on your own.
P.S. Finally, my new "Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook" shares practical pearls from top surgeons. Specifically, these tips cover growth, leadership, patient attraction and building a practice that lasts. Accordingly, this helps whether you are just starting out, growing or planning your exit.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Dr. Vranis' Website
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ Vinaya Rednam, MD, shares her experience on how private equity can actually work for plastic surgeons β even in a multi-location partnership.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Can Private Equity Actually Work for Plastic Surgeons? β Dr. Vinaya Rednam shares how her group preserved its autonomy. Additionally, she discusses individual brands and clinical control. Admittedly, private equity has a mixed reputation in plastic surgery. Indeed, there is a good reason for this.
Therefore, this week's "Beauty and the Biz Podcast" interview with Dr. Vinaya Rednam was so interesting.
Specifically, Dr. Rednam is a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in Houston. Furthermore, she has spent all 11 years of her career in the same private multi-surgeon practice.
Unsurprisingly, she watched it grow from three surgeons in a tiny office to eight surgeons. Also, the practice expanded into two 10,000-square-foot locations. Additionally, they now have three operating rooms. Presently, a fourth operating room is coming. Moreover, the group opened multiple medical spas.
Subsequently, the group joined a surgeon-led reconstructive private equity model. Crucially, they did this without giving up everything that made its surgeons successful.
Significantly, in this episode of the "Beauty and the Biz Podcast", Dr. Rednam explains why their arrangement has worked:
- First, practicing plastic surgeons help lead the private equity organization.
- Second, partners still influence budgets, equipment and marketing.
- Third, surgeons maintain their own websites, social media and coordinators.
- Finally, compensation rewards individual profitability while supporting shared expenses.
However, it isn't all smooth sailing. Sometimes, different leadership styles can create tension. Particularly, this happens when building one culture and a consistent patient experience.
Nevertheless, Dr. Rednam's experience offers a rare look at how private equity can support growth. Ultimately, this growth happens without taking away the surgeon's identity.
Thus, if you are considering a group practice, partnership or private equity deal, listen before signing anything. Undoubtedly, the structure and who controls it matters.
P.S. Ultimately, Dr. Rednam's model works for her. However, every practice has different goals, risks and trade-offs. Fortunately, the "Practice Growth Playbook" shares lessons from more than 175 surgeon interviews. Hopefully, this will help you make smarter decisions about growth, leadership, marketing and your future.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Dr. Rednam's Website
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ He Left the Partnership and Here's Why β Samuel Salcedo, MD, a private practice plastic surgeon in Corona, CA.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
He Left the Partnership and Here's Why β Starting a private practice is not just a business decision. It is a mindset shift. First, when you enter the marketplace after training, joining a mature practice is typical. However, realizing your long-term vision no longer aligns with the practice often happens later. Therefore, you have to make the difficult decision to start over. Next, you must build something of your own.
Ultimately, "He Left the Partnership. Here's Why." is the perfect theme for this topic. Specifically, that is exactly what my recent "Beauty and the Biz Podcast" guest accomplished. Thus, Dr. Samuel Salcedo, a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, founded The Plastics Doc & Med Spa in Corona, California. Naturally, he shares what it was really like to transition into private practice. Additionally, he discusses the lessons learned along the way. Furthermore, he explains what he would do differently today.
He Left the Partnership and Here's Why β Samuel Salcedo, MD, a private practice plastic surgeon in Corona, CA. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
He Left the Partnership and Here's Why β Starting a private practice is not just a business decision. It is a mindset shift. First, when you enter the marketplace after training, joining a mature practice is typical. However, realizing your long-term vision no longer aligns with the practice often happens later. Therefore, you have to make the difficult decision to start over. Next, you must build something of your own.
Ultimately, "He Left the Partnership. Here's Why." is the perfect theme for this topic. Specifically, that is exactly what my recent "Beauty and the Biz Podcast" guest accomplished. Thus, Dr. Samuel Salcedo, a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, founded The Plastics Doc & Med Spa in Corona, California. Naturally, he shares what it was really like to transition into private practice. Additionally, he discusses the lessons learned along the way. Furthermore, he explains what he would do differently today.
P.S. if you are serious about growing your practice, do not rely on trial and error. Instead, my new "Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook" (LINK: booksale.catherinemaley.com) distills the best business, marketing and leadership lessons. Specifically, I learned these from interviewing more than 175 top plastic surgeons. Truly, it is like having their collective wisdom on your bookshelf.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Dr. Salcedo's website https://theplasticsdoc.com/
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ Victor Ferrari, MD, talks about what it takes to still be going strong after 25 successful years in solo practice.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
25 Years in Solo Practice and Still Going Strong β Dr. Victor Ferrari shares the simple systems that helped him build a steady, reputable cosmetic practice. Specifically, Dr. Victor Ferrari is a board-certified plastic surgeon. Additionally, he is the founder of Premier Plastic Surgery Center and Premier Spa in Charlotte, North Carolina. Furthermore, he has been in private practice for more than 25 years. Consequently, he has a strong reputation in his community.
Currently, in this week's "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, Dr. Ferrari shares his secrets. Explicitly, he explains what it really takes to build a long-standing solo cosmetic practice. Importantly, he did this without chasing every shiny object.
Interestingly, he would also be open to bringing in an associate surgeon. Ultimately, this would keep his surgical OR busy. Moreover, it would expand capacity and create more long-term leverage.
Notably, what stood out to me was his intentional focus on the fundamentals:
- First, he chose a location across from a hospital to give patients confidence.
- Next, he built a facility designed for growth that includes room for another surgeon.
- Additionally, he added ancillary services that naturally feed surgical consults.
- Furthermore, he respects the patient's time with longer consults and minimal waiting.
- Finally, he created office protocols so patient concerns are answered quickly.
Also, Dr. Ferrari talks about the business lessons he learned the hard way. For instance, trying to do everything himself became exhausting. Moreover, a dedicated patient care coordinator changed his conversion numbers dramatically.
Undoubtedly, this "Beauty and the Biz" episode is good for any surgeon. Specifically, it is ideal for those who want a solid, reputable practice. Consequently, that practice keeps growing without chaos.
P.S. Admittedly, you might be thinking about your own growth, staffing, or succession. Likewise, you might want to better leverage what you have already built. Fortunately, a Practice Performance Audit will help identify the hidden opportunities. Indeed, these opportunities are sitting inside your practice. Therefore, book your Practice Performance Audit today.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Dr. Ferrari's website https://www.natural-lookingresults.com/
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ James Rough, MD, shares his journey into private practice and how it is not always a straight line to become successful.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Private Practice Is Not a Straight Line β the business lessons behind building a boutique plastic surgery practice. First, this week on "Beauty and the Biz," I talk with Dr. James Rough. Indeed, he is a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Tucson, Arizona. Admittedly, Dr. Rough has an interesting story. After all, he didn't just jump straight into a solo cosmetic practice with everything figured out.
Initially, he started at the VA. Next, he built his surgical experience. Then, he joined another practice. Consequently, he learned what worked and what didn't. Eventually, he used those lessons to build his own boutique-style practice.
Truly, I appreciated his honesty about the journey. Occasionally, you make a decision that looks good on paper. However, you realize later it wasn't the right long-term fit. Similarly, a difficult partnership still teaches you invaluable lessons. Furthermore, COVID, market shifts, competition or staffing force you to rethink what you are building and why.
Thus, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," we discuss several topics:
- For instance, we talk about transitioning from reconstruction to a cosmetic private practice.
- Also, we cover the pros and cons of joining another surgeon first.
- Additionally, we explore what he learned from a challenging partnership.
- Moreover, we discuss why he still values breast reconstruction.
- Finally, we detail how he built a more concierge, relationship-driven practice.
Ultimately, if you are building, rebuilding or rethinking your private practice model, this episode provides a real-world look at what that journey can actually look like.
Meanwhile, one of the biggest reasons cosmetic patients become unhappy is because they do not feel understood.
Consequently, that is why I wrote my first book, "Your Aesthetic Practice / What Your Patients Are Saying." Naturally, it gives you and your team an inside look at how cosmetic patients really think, feel and make decisions. As a result, you can connect with them faster. Furthermore, you can earn their trust. Ultimately, you can create a better patient experience from consultation through post-op.
Fortunately, it is free. Therefore, you simply cover the shipping and handling. Finally, click here to get your copy.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Catherine Maley, MBA's website https://www.catherinemaley.com/
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's new book: Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ β¬οΈ
β‘οΈ Catherine Maley, MBA β Here's what 175 plastic surgeons told me about the business success of their practices.
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What 175 Plastic Surgeons Told Me About Success β The same patterns kept showing up after hundreds of interviews. In fact, the latest "Beauty and the Biz Podcast" episode shares critical patterns from years of interviewing surgeons. Specifically, these insights reveal what worked, what failed and what they wish they had known earlier. Furthermore, you will hear wisdom from top experts like Dr. Rod Rohrich and Dr. Mike Nayak. Likewise, Dr. Jerry Chidester and Dr. Raymond Lee share how their experiences shaped my new book. Geometry aside, "The Plastic Surgery Practice Growth Playbook" stems directly from these powerful lessons. Therefore, this episode is highly valuable if you want to separate thriving practices from struggling ones. Consequently, this episode is worth a listen if your practice feels busy but not necessarily better.
Resources for Plastic Surgeons:
π Get the Beauty and the Biz Practice Growth Playbook: https://bit.ly/4cZNSuD π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit: https://bit.ly/4dC2znZ π§ Listen to more Beauty and the Biz episodes: https://bit.ly/4aqQ2Su π Visit Catherine Maley: https://bit.ly/4eFlLR6
Enjoy, Catherine Maley, MBA Author, Consultant and Host of "Beauty and the Biz"
π LET'S CONNECT: πΈ Instagram: https://bit.ly/4aVlqZn π€ LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4anhDny
Visit Catherine Maley, MBA's website https://www.catherinemaley.com/
#BeautyAndTheBiz #PlasticSurgeryPodcast #PlasticSurgeryMarketing #AestheticPracticeMarketing #CosmeticPracticeGrowth #CatherineMaley
π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
T Gerald O'Daniel, MD, explains how getting out of your own way can be the greatest benefit to the success of your practice. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Getting Out of Your Own Way β How to build a practice with loyal staff, strong systems and fewer distractions. First, Dr. T. Gerald O'Daniel is a double board-certified plastic and facial plastic surgeon. Specifically, he has practiced in Louisville, Kentucky, for 35 years. Indeed, he is known internationally for his face and neck lifting work. However, his business acumen stood out in this "Beauty and the Biz" episode. Particularly, he explained how he built the practice behind his reputation. Ultimately, a great practice is not built on surgical skill alone. Consequently, Dr. O'Daniel openly discussed several vital topics.
Initially, he explained why staff longevity matters more than most surgeons realize. Next, he revealed how he uses a CEO and CFO. Additionally, he relies on metrics reviews to stay informed without micromanaging. Furthermore, he discussed why mixing insurance and cosmetic cultures creates major problems. Also, he shared his honest take on private equity. Hence, he explained why the deal is rarely what it looks like.
Undoubtedly, my favorite part was his comment about his biggest challenge. Namely, he mentioned getting out of his own way. Truly, that is a pearl every surgeon should hear. Indeed, your practice can only grow so far if every decision must run through you. Similarly, every staff issue and number cannot rely entirely on your input. Therefore, listen to this episode of "Beauty and the Biz" today. Finally, hear how Dr. O'Daniel thinks about culture, control, metrics and growth.
P.S. Importantly, keep in mind the surgeon is only half of the conversion equation. Conversely, the other half is your coordinator. Specifically, it matters how well she represents you once the patient leaves the consult room. Consequently, this reality is why I created the Converting Academy. Here, I personally train your coordinator to guide patients to a confident decision. Thus, you can book more surgery and stop letting good leads slip away. Accordingly, reply to this email if you want to talk about it first. https://bit.ly/4emvDPF
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
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π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
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Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. O'Daniel's website
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π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit
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Ruslan Zhuravsky, DO, shares his journey on building an operating suite private practice, with plans on then rebuilding from the ground up. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Building, then rebuilding a practice β What it really takes to uproot a successful practice and start again. Specifically, on this week's "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. Ruslan Zhuravsky. Previously, this facial plastic surgeon in Miami immigrated from Ukraine at age 6. Subsequently, he grew up in Brooklyn and trained in facial plastics. Furthermore, he built his reputation in New Jersey. Ultimately, he made the bold decision to relocate his practice to Miami.
Undeniably, that move was not easy. Admittedly, he had roots, patients and momentum in New Jersey. However, he also knew he ultimately wanted to build his life and his practice in Miami. Consequently, he went for it.
Accordingly, in this "Beauty and the Biz" episode, Dr. Z talks about several key topics:
- First, he discusses starting over in Miami while still needing to pay the bills.
- Second, he highlights working alongside his wife to build a true family business.
- Third, he explains why surgical training is only the beginning.
- Finally, he outlines the difference between dabbling and truly committing.
Truly, this is a great episode for any surgeon who wants the freedom of private practice. Moreover, it requires understanding that success demands focus, sacrifice and grit.
Additionally, keep in mind that the surgeon is only half the story when patients decide to move forward. Meanwhile, the other half is your patient coordinator. Furthermore, she is representing you on the phone, building trust, answering objections and guiding consultations to booked surgery.
Therefore, I created the Converting Academy to personally train your coordinator. Ultimately, she will learn to convert more of your inquiries and consultations into revenue. Currently, I am offering Special Summer Conversion Pricing right now. Check out the Special Summer Conversion Pricing at: https://bit.ly/4emvDPF
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Zhuravsky's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit
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Richard J. Brown, MD, shares from his experience on when the surgeon becomes the bottleneck in managing the practice. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
When the Surgeon Becomes the Bottleneck How this plastic surgeon learned to delegate without losing control.
Consequently, my latest "Beauty and the Biz" guest is Dr. Richard Brown, a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon and founder of Brown Plastic Surgery in Scottsdale, Arizona. Moreover, Dr. Brown built his solo practice from the ground up after taking over for a retiring surgeon. Additionally, in this episode, he gets very candid about what it really takes to grow. Specifically, he discusses the challenges when you are the surgeon, owner, leader, producer, and visionary.
Furthermore, we talked about the business side surgeons were never trained for, which includes several key components.
- First, we explore why the business side of practice is often the hardest part.
- Second, we compare the difference between an office manager and a COO.
- Third, we explain why every visionary surgeon needs a "who" to help execute the "how."
- Fourth, we share how to step out of daily staff drama without disconnecting from the team.
- Fifth, we reveal the expensive lesson he learned when he took his eye off the numbers.
Ultimately, this is a great episode for any surgeon who wants to grow but knows they cannot keep managing every staff issue, idea, and fire on their own.
REMINDER: Obviously, every consult that does not book is lost revenue. Therefore, that is why I created Converting Academy. For instance, I personally train and coach your coordinator one-on-one. Consequently, she knows how to lead the consultation, handle objections, follow up with confidence, and convert more patients to surgery.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Visit Dr. Brown's website
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit
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Christopher Micallef, DO, shares how he grew from solo practice to 51,000 sq. ft. in only 2.5 years in Texas. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Solo Practice to 51,000 Sq. Ft. β in 2.5 Years 3 providers, 16 staff, zero lead conflict. Here's his model.
First, my latest "Beauty and the Biz" guest is Dr. Christopher Micallef. Indeed, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon in San Antonio. Furthermore, he has built something truly impressive. Specifically, he grew from a solo practice to a multi-provider aesthetic business. Moreover, he achieved this growth in just a short amount of time. Currently, his multi-provider aesthetic business includes the following elements:
- First, a facial plastic surgeon joined the team.
- Second, an internal medicine physician came on board.
- Third, the clinic offers injectors, lasers and wellness services.
- Fourth, the practice employs 16 team members and keeps growing.
However, what stood out the most was his mindset. Ultimately, Dr. Micallef credits much of his success to his military background. Fundamentally, systems, consistency, accountability and leadership are not optional. Frankly, that discipline clearly shows in his work. Thus, in this "Beauty and the Biz" episode, we discuss the following topics:
- First, we explore how he scaled quickly without chaos.
- Next, we uncover why patient experience is his true differentiator instead of price.
- Then, we review the hiring mistakes he wishes he avoided early on.
- Meanwhile, we discuss how to get every staff member aligned around the same patient journey.
- Finally, we explain why consistency in leadership is non-negotiable.
Emphatically, he emphasized his focus is equally on systems, staff experience and procedures. Therefore, that is how you prevent growth leaks from happening. Assuredly, if you are building, scaling or trying to create a stronger culture in your practice, this episode is worth your time.
Incidentally, the practices winning today are not always the best surgeons. Instead, they are often the best operators. Consequently, I talk about this concept in more detail in my brand-new book. Now, you can read "The Plastic Surgery Practice Growth Playbook." Finally, get your copy today.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Visit Dr. Micallef's website
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
π Schedule a Practice Performance Audit
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Nathaniel Villanueva, MD, shares the secrets of his success as a Beverly Hills surgeon in terms of a smarter practice growth model. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Smarter Growth Model for Surgeons? Why Some Plastic Surgeons Scale Faster (Without Going Solo).
Initially, I recorded an insightful episode regarding a "Smarter Growth Model for Surgeons?" Specifically, I conversed with Dr. Nathaniel Villanueva. Currently, he operates as a young board-certified plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills. Interestingly, he decided to join an established multi-surgeon group. Consequently, he avoided going straight into a solo practice. Admittedly, he joined a highly renowned clinic. Subsequently, he built his patient base strategically from there.
Therefore, here are the main takeaways.
- First, joining the right practice can accelerate growth faster than working alone.
- Second, a partnership model reduces risk while creating significant financial upside.
- Third, specialization inside a group reduces internal competition.
- Furthermore, a strong leadership mindset keeps surgeon egos in check.
- Moreover, culture matters more than credentials when adding another surgeon to the team.
- Finally, staff compensation transparency helps avoid office drama.
Also, remember this final thought. Surprisingly, the fastest-growing surgeons usually are not working harder. Rather, they are making better strategic decisions earlier.
Additionally, you might want more strategic insights like these. Thus, my new book provides the answers. Notably, "The Plastic Surgery Practice Growth Playbook" pulls together the best podcast pearls. Ultimately, it compiles advice from top-performing surgeons into one practical resource. Accordingly, get the playbook here.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Visit Dr. Villanueva's website
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
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Why this surgeon "lives lean" as a strategic choice in Beverly Hills with only three employees. Faryan Jalalabadi, MD explains. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Why This Surgeon "Lives Lean" in Beverly Hills Consequently, this week's podcast features Dr. Faryan Jalalabadi, a board-certified plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills. Furthermore, he trained at Baylor College of Medicine and spent significant time with Dr. Rod Rohrich. Additionally, he completed the elite Marina Aesthetics Fellowship at USC under Dr. Grant Stevens. Currently, he runs a thriving facial aging practice with a tiny staff of only three people.
Specifically, here is what stood out from the episode:
- Moreover, he intentionally runs one of the leanest operations in the competitive Beverly Hills market.
- Similarly, he focused entirely on facial aging instead of trying to provide every possible procedure.
- Indeed, his biggest professional regret is not opening his solo practice sooner.
- Meanwhile, he follows his mentor's advice that your only real competition is yourself.
- Finally, he explains why not owning a surgery center is a strategic choice rather than a limitation.
Therefore, you should listen if you wonder how a younger surgeon competes in a crowded market without massive overhead. Indeed, this episode reveals his unique blueprint for success.
P.S. In fact, Dr. Jalalabadi credits his fellowship with teaching him what to avoid in business. Because this kind of insight is vital, I captured similar wisdom from 175 surgeons in "Beauty and the Biz". Therefore, you should pre-order the playbook today to receive four launch bonuses.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Visit Dr. Jalalabadi's website
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
π Get Catherine's New Book: Plastic Surgery Practice Pearls
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Suma Maddox, MD, shares her journey into private practice and the difference between being employed and free. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
The Difference Between Employed⦠and Free Frankly, most surgeons will not do this, but that is the point.
Indeed, most surgeons talk about going out on their own. However, few actually do it. Furthermore, even fewer emulate Dr. Suma Maddox. Specifically, she is a board-certified plastic surgeon in New Orleans. Previously, she spent years as a hospital-employed general surgeon. Consequently, she was locked into a noncompete agreement. Then, she made a definitive decision. Next, she went back into training. Afterward, she started over. Ultimately, she drove 200 miles each way every week. Moreover, she did this for months to secure the surgery cases needed for board certification.
Undeniably, that immense effort paid off. Today, she owns her own practice. Additionally, she built a surgery center with two operating rooms. Plus, she rents this space to other surgeons. Furthermore, she will have that loan paid off by November.
Truthfully, this success was not luck. Rather, it was the result of thinking like a founder. Surprisingly, she did not ask how to do more surgery. Instead, she asked how to build something she could control.
Remarkably, this is the exact pattern I observed across 175 surgeons. Concurrently, I noticed this while writing my book. Unquestionably, the ones who break away and grow share specific traits:
- First, they protect their autonomy.
- Second, they build systems around themselves.
- Third, they create new revenue streams.
- Finally, they think long-term rather than just focusing on survival.
Ultimately, success starts with thinking differently about "The Difference Between Employed⦠and Free".
P.S. Importantly, the shift from surgeon to owner changes everything. Therefore, everything is detailed in my new book, "Plastic Surgery Practice Playbook." Currently, it is available at BeautyAndTheBizBook.com.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Visit Dr. Maddox's website
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Dan Hatef, MD, explains how the difference isn't more leads when it comes to patient acquisition, fulfillment and retention. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
The Difference Isn't More Leads Specifically, "The difference isn't more leads" features Dr. Dan Hatef. Indeed, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon. Currently, Hatef runs a high-performing private practice in Nashville, Tennessee.
First, I have a quick heads-up before you dive in. Actually, my new book, "The Plastic Surgery Practice Growth Playbook," is now at the printer. Moreover, this book is built from pearls gathered from over 175 top plastic surgeon interviews. Ultimately, it reveals the exact patterns behind stronger conversion and higher retention. Consequently, it helps build more efficient and profitable practices. Soon, it will be available for pre-order.
Now, here is why this podcast episode matters. Surprisingly, Hatef's success is not about doing more. Rather, it is about doing the right things consistently. Next, here are a few key takeaways.
- First, growth comes from execution instead of effort.
- Second, networking with the right people in your community is a game changer.
- Third, your team either elevates or erodes the patient experience.
Therefore, you must stop guessing to improve conversion, retention and staff performance. Fortunately, "The difference isn't more leads" will show you exactly where to start.
Also, these takeaways are exactly what I organized into "The Plastic Surgery Practice Growth Playbook." Consequently, you can see where your practice stands and what to fix next. Presently, the book is shipping soon. Furthermore, pre-orders this week include four exclusive launch bonuses. Afterward, those bonuses are gone forever. Finally, pre-orders will be available soon.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Hatef's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Kristina Tansavatdi, MD shares her experience on what it really takes to open your own practice and what she would have done differently. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What it Really Takes to Open Your Own Practice Admittedly, lots of surgeons think about going out on their own. However, very few actually do it. Specifically, in this week's episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Kristina Tansavatdi discusses her journey. Furthermore, this facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Thousand Oaks, California, didn't wait for the perfect time. Instead, she just made the decision and figured it out.
Below, here are some highlights of our conversation:
- First, she chose betting on herself over buying into someone else's practice.
- Additionally, she used real pro forma data to eliminate guessing and hoping.
- Simultaneously, she built her practice while doing locum tenens to stay afloat.
- Moreover, she answered her own phones and converted patients herself.
- Ultimately, she faced the reality of hearing crickets in the beginning.
Currently, where is she now? Today, she runs a fully built-out, Quad-A-accredited surgical center in Southern California. Clearly, there are no shortcuts. Likewise, there is no magic. Rather, her success required smart decisions, risk tolerance and consistency. So, if you're sitting on the fence about going solo, this episode will either validate your hesitation or push you forward.
PS: My "Beauty and the Biz Plastic Surgery Practice Playbook" is coming soon. First copies will go to those on the early access list. Look out for an upcoming episode post on how to sign up!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Tansavatdi's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Lindsey Pennington, MD, shares on how she started in solo practice, pregnant, and built this successful practice in Shreveport, LA. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
She Started SOLO⦠Pregnant⦠and Built THIS Initially, Dr. Lindsey Pennington did not ease into private practice. Instead, she jumped in five months pregnant straight out of her fellowship. Furthermore, she built a solo facial plastic surgery practice from scratch in Shreveport, Louisiana. Thus, her journey perfectly embodies the podcast episode, "She started SOLO⦠pregnant⦠and built THIS."
Breaking the Mold Truly, here is what makes her story worth your attention.
- First, she became the very first female in Louisiana to accomplish this feat.
- Additionally, she built a high-touch, concierge-level experience that patients consistently rave about.
- Moreover, she currently operates without an office manager.
- Consequently, she leads everything herself alongside a 14-person team.
However, here is the real kicker. Surprisingly, she admits her fellowship taught her absolutely nothing about business. Therefore, she simply figured it out herself.
Doing It Right Now, let us examine what she did right.
- Firstly, she chose a nonmedical retail location to create a consumer-friendly feel.
- Secondly, she obsessed over every single patient touchpoint, including the phones and the lobby.
- Thirdly, she traveled across the country learning directly from top surgeons.
- Finally, she built up her social media presence and created a huge demand for her services.
The Takeaway Ultimately, here is what this means for you. Clearly, if you are waiting to feel ready before building your dream practice, you will wait forever. Indeed, Dr. Pennington proves you must build it by doing and refining as you go. Currently, the fastest-growing surgeons are not the most experienced. Rather, they are the ones learning from others and implementing quickly.
P.S. Lastly, if you want help applying these lessons to your own practice, book a quick Practice Growth Review Call here. Undoubtedly, this will help you secure more converting consults, higher patient value and smoother systems.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Pennington's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Maryam Saheb-Al-Zamani, MD, shares her journey into private practice in Beverly Hills, California, and explains what it really takes to start over. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What it Really Takes to Start Over Currently, the fastest-growing practices do not work harder because they reposition smarter.
Consequently, you might wonder what you would do if you had to start over in a new market without a built-in patient base. Actually, that is exactly what Dr. Maryam Zamani has done more than once. First, she began her career in Toronto by joining an established practice. Subsequently, she moved to Southern California to join a different practice. Today, she has built a "practice within a practice" in Beverly Hills. Undoubtedly, this is one of the most competitive markets in the world.
Interestingly, several factors make her journey fascinating.
- Initially, she did not rely on her history.
- Instead, she rebuilt her reputation each time.
- Furthermore, Zamani leveraged associations with strong practices to gain traction faster.
- Moreover, she used the geography of Beverly Hills to elevate her perceived value and credibility.
- Ultimately, she understood that growth is not just clinical.
- Rather, growth is highly strategic.
Typically, most surgeons think growth means acquiring more leads and doing more procedures. Consequently, they believe it requires more hustle. However, sometimes the real move involves repositioning yourself in the right environment. Additionally, it means rebuilding smarter. Therefore, if you have ever thought about expanding or relocating your practice model, you should listen. Specifically, tuning into "What it really takes to start over" is well worth your time.
P.S. Admittedly, the surgeons who grow the fastest are not always the most experienced. Instead, they are the most strategic. Finally, if that describes you, let us schedule a Practice Growth Review.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Saheb-Al-Zamani's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Michael Edwards, MD, shares his journey from being in the US Air Force, going into solo practice, and then transitioning into retirement. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
From Air Force to Solo to Retirement Initially, Dr. Michael C. Edwards is a board-certified plastic surgeon and founder of Plastic Surgery Vegas. Furthermore, he is a past president of the Aesthetic Society. Previously, he served as a U.S. Air Force officer. Specifically, he commanded a field hospital in the Middle East. Subsequently, he transitioned from military medicine to solo private practice in Las Vegas. Remarkably, he was operating on patients his first week out of uniform.
Now, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Edwards breaks down exactly how he did it:
- First, he reveals why he stayed in the same city. Consequently, that single decision made his practice launch almost effortless.
- Next, he discusses being solo for 12 years before a group merger. Ultimately, it took a year of conversations, attorneys and consultants to get it right.
- Then, he reviews his private equity decision. Specifically, they looked into private equity and walked away. Furthermore, he explains why.
- Later, he details the one-year retirement announcement. Unsurprisingly, he shares what happened when his phone "lit up."
- Moreover, he is transferring 30 years of patient loyalty to the new surgeon taking his place. Importantly, he does this without a single patient feeling abandoned.
Indeed, this is not theory. Rather, it is a playbook from someone who actually did it.
P.S. Finally, if you want an objective view of your own practice, request a Practice Growth Strategy Review here. Otherwise, you might miss what is working, what is not and what to fix next.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Edward's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Alexandra Hart, MD, explains from her own experience on which cosmetic practice partnership mistakes to avoid. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Partnership Mistakes to Avoid Because you might be considering buying into an established practice, this week's "Beauty and the Biz" episode is a must-listen. Furthermore, Dr. Alexandra Hart, a board-certified plastic surgeon in Atlanta, GA, joins "Beauty and the Biz" to share what really happens when a young surgeon joins an established practice. Initially, she learns the business and buys in as a partner. Subsequently, she discovers the reality of decision-making power.
Consequently, here are a few key takeaways:
- Notably, buying equity does not automatically mean equal influence.
- In addition, financial transparency matters more than personality compatibility.
- Specifically, marketing control often reveals deeper leadership differences.
- Moreover, money disagreements often uncover misaligned expectations.
- Importantly, partnership agreements matter more than verbal promises.
During the episode, Dr. Hart candidly discusses what she learned about P&Ls and payroll. Additionally, she explains governance and ownership responsibilities after becoming a 50% partner. Therefore, she provides knowledge most surgeons never receive in training. Similarly, she shares the emotional side few talk about. For example, she explores what happens when vision, values, and financial expectations stop aligning.
If you are early in your career, this episode includes real-world insights into what to clarify before signing anything. Especially if you are considering a buy-in or mentoring an associate, these lessons are vital. Ultimately, the right partnership accelerates your career. Conversely, the wrong one can stall it.
P.S. After decades of working with top practices, I have noticed a clear pattern. Specifically, the busiest surgeons do not always have better marketing. Instead, they run tighter systems.
If you would like an expert perspective on your systems, you can request a confidential Practice Growth Review.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Hart's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Steven Hanna, MD, shares how his fellowship experience was priceless in that it gave him the tools to succeed as a surgeon as well as a businessman. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
This Fellowship Was Priceless In this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. Steven Hanna. Currently, he is a Royal College-certified plastic surgeon. For three years, he has practiced in Toronto and Oshawa, Canada.
During our talk, we discussed why this fellowship was priceless for his career. Specifically, he trained at Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat. There, he worked with top aesthetic surgeons to refine his skills. Consequently, this accelerated his professional growth. Furthermore, he later joined a well-established practice with a long-time colleague.
Interestingly, this practice is unique because both surgeons' wives are also physicians there. Together, they work under one roof. Therefore, they offer a full spectrum of surgical and nonsurgical procedures.
Key takeaways from our conversation:
- How mentorship from top surgeons shapes long-term success
- Why specialization helps surgeons stand out
- The importance of reputation early in your career
- The secret behind his happy business partnership
Naturally, the fastest-growing surgeons make intentional decisions. Instead of just working harder, they focus on positioning and differentiation. Ultimately, this episode shows why this fellowship was priceless for his positioning.
P.S. After decades of working with top practices, I have noticed a clear pattern. Specifically, the busiest surgeons do not always have better marketing. Instead, they run tighter systems.
If you would like an expert perspective on your systems, you can request a confidential Practice Growth Review.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Hanna's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Pamela Brownlee, DO β a young, pretty, and smart cosmetic surgeon who's absolutely crushing it with branding, marketing, and patient attraction. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Young, Pretty, Smart and Crushing it In this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. Pamela Brownlee. Specifically, she is a board-certified plastic surgeon in Frisco, Texas. Additionally, she opened her practice just one year ago. Ultimately, she named it Bombshelled Aesthetics!
Clearly, Dr. Brownlee is a mix of looks, style, fashion and fun. However, we all know looks can be deceiving. Consequently, she is also smart, driven and strategic. In our conversation, "Young, Pretty, Smart and Crushing It" describes her journey perfectly.
Furthermore, here is what we talked about:
- Why patient trust builds long-term success.
- The balance between being a surgeon and a business owner.
- Why she has a skincare line, Amazon store and 85,000 Instagram followers.
- The mindset needed to grow a sustainable practice.
Most importantly, one of the biggest takeaways was her focus on patient relationships. Therefore, this strategy drives loyalty, referrals and practice growth.
P.S. Sadly, most practices I review unknowingly lose 20% to 40% of potential revenue due to small gaps. If you would like me to identify these gaps, you can schedule a confidential Practice Growth Review with me.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Brownlee's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Doctor Francisco GΓ³mez Bravo shares his experiences in academia vs. the freedoms found in aesthetic private practice. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Academia vs. Aesthetic Freedom This week's "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast features Dr. Francisco Bravo. Specifically, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon in Madrid. Notably, his path to solo success was not a straight line.
On the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast, Dr. Bravo shares how he built the foundation for a thriving aesthetic practice through years of training and strategic decisions.
First, he trained in Barcelona, London, Paris, Rome, and NYU.
Next, he built credibility in reconstructive microsurgery.
Meanwhile, he balanced university medicine with private practice for 10 years.
Eventually, he made the decision many surgeons struggle with.
Ultimately, he left academic security. Instead, he went all-in on an aesthetic solo practice.
In this episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast, we discuss:
- First, how to know when you have enough "momentum" to go solo
- Next, why impatience is the biggest mistake young surgeons make
- Then, the financial and emotional risk of investing in a high-end location
- Additionally, why owning your own surgical facility is a game changer
- Finally, how instrumental his wife has been in building the practice while raising four kids
One of my favorite lines from him on the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast:
" You have to choose two: university, private practice, or family. But you can't do all three."
Overall, this episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast offers a thoughtful and honest look at what it really takes to build a boutique aesthetic practice the right way.
Therefore, if you're quietly wondering whether it's time to narrow your focus or elevate your brand, this "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast episode will interest you.
P.S. Obviously, momentum doesn't happen by accident. Therefore, if you're ready to elevate your positioning, patient experience, and profitability, book a Practice Growth Review with me.
Indeed, we'll identify exactly where you're leaving opportunity on the table β and what to do about it.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Bravo's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Ritu Chopra, MD, explains how premium pricing isn't luck, but it's positioning oneself to become the authority in their field. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Premium Pricing Isn't Luck. It's Positioning. Today, premium pricing in plastic surgery isn't luck. Instead, it's positioning.
In this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," we explain how premium positioning allows surgeons to command higher fees with confidence. As a result, consistency follows clarity.
Specifically, Ritu Chopra, MD, is a Beverly Hills board-certified plastic surgeon. Notably, he built his reputation through extreme specialization in facial surgery. In particular, his signature DEFINE facelift became the focal point of his brand.
Because of that focus, technical refinement, and strategic positioning, his facelift procedures can reach six figures. Therefore, that level of premium pricing is not accidental. Rather, it is intentional.
Early in his career, Dr. Chopra made a strategic move. At that point, he joined a practice led by a nationally recognized plastic surgeon. Importantly, that surgeon was a longtime cast member of "The Doctors."
As a result, proximity elevated his visibility. In turn, it strengthened his credibility. Eventually, it earned him his own role on the show.
In "Premium Pricing Isn't Luck. It's Positioning.," we also discuss collaboration. Instead of competing, Dr. Chopra chose to collaborate. Consequently, he participates in a private circle of elite facial plastic surgeons. Together, they refine techniques and raise standards. Ultimately, high-level surgeons collaborate. By contrast, they do not compete on price.
If you want to understand how specialization, proximity, and authority drive premium pricing, then "Premium Pricing Isn't Luck. It's Positioning." delivers practical insight you can apply immediately.
PS: Indeed, not every practice needs more marketing. Instead, some practices need sharper positioning.
If you want a direct evaluation of your growth gaps, pricing leverage, and retention systems, then request a private Practice Growth Review.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Chopra's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Catherine Maley, MBA, with nearly 30 years in helping cosmetic surgeons and their staff, explains how smart practices grow during uncertain times. Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
How Smart Practices Grow During Uncertain Times Currently, something subtle is happening in aesthetic practices.
Specifically, it isn't dramatic. Instead, it is quieter than that.
Increasingly, consultations are taking longer. Meanwhile, patients are asking more questions. Consequently, decisions are slowing down. Similarly, negotiations are becoming sharper.
Even so, affluent patients β those who clearly have the money β are hesitating. Importantly, this hesitation isn't about affordability. Rather, uncertainty delays commitment.
Unfortunately, this is where many practices make a mistake. Typically, when they sense hesitation, they tighten operations. For example, they cut marketing. Additionally, they freeze hiring. Likewise, they reduce training. Eventually, they negotiate fees. As a result, profit margins erode.
In reality, expense cutting doesn't create growth. Instead, it usually slows decline.
By contrast, resilient practices take a different approach. Rather than asking, "Where can we cut?" they ask, "Where are we underperforming?"
Often, the answers are operational. For instance, missed calls reduce opportunity. Similarly, lost consult conversions weaken revenue. Likewise, weak follow-up limits growth. Additionally, dormant past patients represent untapped value.
In uncertain markets, you don't need 30% growth. Instead, you often need about 10% tighter execution. Therefore, clarity becomes a competitive advantage.
In this week's podcast, "How Smart Practices Grow During Uncertain Times," I explain:
- Specifically, why patients negotiate harder during uncertain markets
- Additionally, why cutting expenses rarely produces real profit growth
- Furthermore, where practices often underperform without realizing it
- Finally, why strong systems outperform aggressive discounting
Ultimately, uncertainty isn't a threat. Instead, it acts as a filter. Consequently, weak systems struggle. Meanwhile, strong systems remain steady.
In the end, profit growth doesn't come from panic. Rather, it comes from clarity.
Indeed, if you'd like an objective look at where your revenues may be underperforming β without adding more ads, more staff, or more chaos β request a private Practice Growth Review. Sometimes, one operational adjustment can influence the entire year.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Johnny Franco, MD, talks about how he built a multi-location cosmetic surgery practice without losing control. Hello and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Built a Multi-Location Practice Without Losing Control Specifically, "Built a Multi-Location Practice Without Losing Control" podcast explains how practices grow without losing stability or profitability.
Importantly, in this "Beauty and the Biz" episode, Dr. Johnny Franco shares how early infrastructure helped him scale safely. Additionally, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon in Austin, Texas. Moreover, he founded Austin Plastic Surgeon. Furthermore, he serves as clinical faculty at UT Dell Medical School.
Indeed, this conversation focuses on real-world growth strategy rather than theory. Specifically, Dr. Franco discusses what happens inside expanding practices. Likewise, he explains how leadership decisions affect long-term control.
Additionally, key discussion points include:
- Why adding locations is often harder than adding providers
- How missing SOPs create financial confusion and accountability gaps
- Why many practices delay building leadership and operations support
- How compensation structures influence ownership and culture
- The operational risk when everything funnels through one surgeon
Importantly, one insight is simple. Namely, infrastructure works best when built early. Consequently, waiting often increases cost. Similarly, waiting usually increases complexity and stress.
Overall, this episode reflects real operational experience. Specifically, it comes from a multi-location practice. Likewise, the practice includes multiple surgeons and diverse service lines.
P.S. If your marketing relies heavily on discounts or ad spend, a Practice Growth Review can help identify stronger positioning options.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Franco's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Gregory D. Lewen, MD, played the long game most surgeons don't play to organically transition from reconstruction to cosmetic surgery. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
The Long Game Most Surgeons Don't Play Overall, the quiet decisions that lead to real leverage over time.
Typically, most surgeons don't wake up and suddenly decide to go solo. Instead, the shift usually happens gradually. Often, it follows years of watching how different systems actually work.
In this week's "Beauty and the Biz" episode, I spoke with Dr. Gregory Lewen. Specifically, he is a board-certified oculoplastic surgeon in Aventura, Florida. Notably, he followed a deliberate path into private practice.
Before opening his own office, Dr. Lewen trained in two distinct environments:
- First, a university setting focused on functional care
- Second, a private practice centered on cash medicine
Consequently, that dual exposure shaped his strategy.
Rather than chase volume or quick wins, he built a boutique, concierge-style practice. Instead, the foundation includes:
- Specifically, careful business planning
- Additionally, strategic location selection in a high-end market
- Gradually, a move away from insurance
- Consistently, a focus on service and trust
Notably, one insight stood out:
"Something changes when you put your ideas on paper. It becomes real β and there's no turning back."
Additionally, we discuss:
- Importantly, why independence often matters more than speed
- Likewise, how early decisions protect long-term leverage
- Finally, the risks of growing too quickly
Overall, this is a practical conversation. Ultimately, it focuses on building a sustainable surgical practice.
P.S. Overall, growth rarely comes from doing more. Instead, it often comes from refining what already works. Additionally, if you'd like help identifying that leverage in your practice, you can request a Practice Growth Review here.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Lewen's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Jennifer Murdock, MD, shares her cosmetic surgery growth strategy which involved moonlighting for other practices. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Moonlighting as a Growth Strategy Why this surgeon learned how to build before momentum kicked in
First, the "Moonlighting as a growth strategy" podcast explores what it really takes to build a sustainable aesthetic practice before momentum arrives.
In this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I sit down with Dr. Jennifer Murdock. As a board-certified facial plastic surgeon in Miami, she chose a deliberate and patient approach to growth.
Notably, Dr. Murdock openly shares a reality many young surgeons experience but rarely discuss.
Early in her career, she moonlighted at other practices. At the same time, this approach allowed her to maintain financial stability. Meanwhile, she slowly built her own reputation. Additionally, she developed a referral base and patient trust in one of the most competitive aesthetic markets in the country.
Rather than a fallback, moonlighting became a strategic growth strategy.
During the conversation, we discuss what that phase actually looked like. Importantly, we also explore why it mattered.
In this episode, you'll hear:
- How she evaluated risk vs. stability early on
- Why ego can sabotage long-term practice ownership
- The mindset shift required when you're building before you're "busy"
- How patience, consistency, and standards compound over time
Overall, this is a practical and honest conversation about practice building. Ultimately, it's the kind surgeons wish they had heard earlier in their careers.
If you're navigating growth, uncertainty, or the uncomfortable in-between phase, this episode will resonate deeply.
π Now, listen to "Moonlighting as a growth strategy" and learn the long game that actually works.
P.S. Importantly, most surgeons quit or overextend during this stage. Here, Dr. Murdock explains how to stay solvent, grounded, and focused while building something that lasts.
P.S. Now is the best time to get an objective second set of eyes on how your practice is really operating.Especially then, this matters before habits harden and the year fills up.
If you want clarity on where structure, conversion, or accountability could improve results, you can request a Practice Growth Strategy Review here:
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Murdock's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Philip Solomon, MD, FCRS, shares insights from his experience on what changes when you stop doing everything as a cosmetic surgeon. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What Changes When You Stop Doing Everything Today, the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast features Dr. Philip Solomon. Specifically, he is a facial plastic surgeon in Toronto with more than 25 years in practice. Additionally, he is the founder of the Solomon Nasal & Facial Plastic Surgery Center.
Over time, Dr. Solomon has worked in academic medicine. Likewise, he has held hospital leadership roles. Further, he has owned and operated a private practice. Eventually, he made a deliberate shift to a fully aesthetic-focused model. As a result, that long-view perspective makes this episode of "Beauty and the Biz" especially valuable.
In this episode, we talk candidly about the business realities surgeons face as their practices mature. More importantly, we focus on what happens when growth increases complexity instead of leverage.
During the conversation, we cover several critical topics.
- First, we explore why doing "a little of everything" eventually becomes a liability.
- Next, we discuss the decision to narrow focus and what that change unlocked.
- Additionally, Dr. Solomon shares his experience with owning a surgical facility versus relying on a hospital.
- At the same time, he explains staffing challenges few surgeons are prepared for.
- Finally, we examine why being busy can actually increase operational risk.
Throughout the episode, Dr. Solomon is refreshingly honest about what he would do differently. In particular, he reflects on staying too broad for too long. Ultimately, he explains why focus becomes a strategic advantage rather than a limitation.
Overall, this episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast is a thoughtful conversation for surgeons who feel pulled in too many directions. Especially, it is relevant for those questioning how to simplify their practice. Importantly, momentum does not have to be lost.
Ultimately, maturity in practice isn't about adding more. Instead, it's about knowing what to let go.
P.S. January is the best time to get an objective second set of eyes on how your practice is really operating.Especially then, this matters before habits harden and the year fills up.
If you want clarity on where structure, conversion, or accountability could improve results, you can request a Practice Growth Strategy Review here:
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Solomon's website
Watch Dr. Solomon's "The UnPhiltered Podcast"
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Anthony Youn, MD, shares how he's been able to maintain being 1.5 years booked out even after his partner left his practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
1.5 Years Booked Out...How? Why "bigger" isn't always better in private practice
Today's "Beauty and the Biz" podcast features Dr. Anthony Youn, a board-certified plastic surgeon, best-selling author, and nationally recognized expert on aging and longevity.
For more than 20 years, Dr. Youn has built a successful private practice. However, his story stands out not because of rapid expansion, but because of restraint.
In this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," we talk candidly about how to build a profitable, ethical, and sustainable practice and how he remained being 1.5 years booked out, even after his partner left his practice.
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Youn explains the decisions that shaped his long-term stability. Likewise, he explains how those decisions protected his control.
You'll hear:
- First, why he chose solo private practice instead of joining a larger group
- Next, the real trade-offs of not owning an in-office OR
- Then, how he approaches staffing, loyalty, and workplace culture
- Finally, why long waitlists aren't always a sign of healthy growth
Along the way, Dr. Youn shares lessons many surgeons only learn the hard way. For example, he discusses costly mistakes with expensive devices. Additionally, he explains staffing realities that are rarely discussed openly.
Ultimately, this episode of "Beauty and the Biz" is especially valuable for surgeons who want clarity. Moreover, it is valuable for those who want stability and longevity. Conversely, it is not for those chasing operational chaos.
In the end, growth doesn't always mean expansion. Sometimes, growth means knowing exactly what not to build.
P.S. January is the best time to get an objective second set of eyes on how your practice is really operating.Especially then, this matters before habits harden and the year fills up.
If you want clarity on where structure, conversion, or accountability could improve results, you can request a Practice Growth Strategy Review here:
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Youn's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Ramsen Azizi, MD, of Chicago, Illinois, explains the real cost of "playing it safe" in a private cosmetic surgery practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
The Real Cost of "Playing It Safe" in Private Practice Lessons from building a practice with no safety net
In "The Real Cost of 'Playing It Safe' in Private Practice" podcast, I sit down with Dr. Ramsen Azizi. Specifically, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon and the founder of RAM Plastic Surgery in Chicago.
Before entering medicine, Dr. Azizi spent more than two decades as a professional music producer. As a result, that creative and independent background shaped how he approached private practice. From the beginning, it influenced how he made decisions and assessed risk.
As a result, this episode explores a side of private practice growth most surgeons are not prepared for. More importantly, it focuses on the real trade-offs between safety and autonomy.
Specifically in this conversation, you'll learn:
- Why starting private practice immediately forced better decisions
- How keeping overhead painfully low early on created long-term freedom
- What surgeons underestimate about building their own surgical facility
- Why control of your OR, schedule, and environment changes everything
Throughout "The Real Cost of 'Playing It Safe' in Private Practice," Dr. Azizi shares candid lessons from taking financial risk. Additionally, he discusses navigating volatile growth cycles. Ultimately, he explains why he chose autonomy over perceived security.
Importantly, this is not a "do this one tactic" episode.
Instead, it offers a grounded look at what it takes to build something durable. More broadly, it shows why private practice success is less about perfection and more about resilience.
If you've ever thought, "There has to be a better way than this," this episode will challenge how you think about control. At the same time, it may change how you view risk and long-term freedom.
P.S. January is the best time to get an objective second set of eyes on how your practice is really operating.Especially then, this matters before habits harden and the year fills up.
If you want clarity on where structure, conversion, or accountability could improve results, you can request a Practice Growth Strategy Review here:
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Azizi's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Frederick Weniger, MD, explains how he, for one, as a surgeon, thinks differently about growth in his Hilton Head cosmetic practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
How One Surgeon Thinks Differently About Growth Today, the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast features Dr. Weniger. Notably, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon with an MBA. Currently, he practices in Hilton Head, South Carolina.
Instead of chasing trends, Dr. Weniger approaches growth differently. Rather than reacting to industry noise, he focuses on long-term thinking. More importantly, he emphasizes deliberate and measured decision-making.
Additionally, he challenges assumptions that often go unquestioned. Specifically, he examines choices many surgeons never slow down enough to consider.
In this episode, the conversation moves beyond tactics. Instead, it centers on how experienced surgeons think. Ultimately, the focus is on building a practice designed to last.
Throughout the discussion, several mindset shifts emerge.
Specifically, the episode explains why following the crowd often increases risk rather than reducing it. Likewise, it shows how leadership appears in everyday decisions rather than formal titles. Similarly, it highlights why clarity consistently beats complexity in practice management. Finally, it reveals how surgeons can stay grounded when the industry feels chaotic.
As a result, this episode speaks to surgeons who are already successful. In particular, it resonates with those seeking greater confidence and calm about what comes next.
If pressure to adopt misaligned systems has ever felt familiar, this episode of "Beauty and the Biz" will resonate.
PS: Ultimately, the best practices are not louder. Instead, they are clearer. Consequently, this episode reinforces why leadership begins with how you think rather than what you copy. In short, schedule a strategy call to gain unbiased clarity around your practice growth.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Weniger's website
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Catherine Maley, MBA talks about a much smarter way to think about growth in 2026 for your cosmetic practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
A Smarter Way to Think About Growth in 2026 β A new year perspective on what to stop tolerating β and what to fix now. Happy New Year!
Firstly, most surgeons start the year thinking about what they want more of in 2026:
- More consults
- More booked surgery
- More predictability
- Less chaos
Secondly, that focus is normal.
However, the latest "Beauty and the Biz" podcast takes a different approach. Moreover, it is inspired by Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's longtime partner, and one of the most quietly effective thinkers of our time.
Interestingly, most people don't realize Munger was the strategic mind behind the scenes. Consequently, his thinking profoundly influenced Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway's extraordinary success.
For example, one of Munger's simple principles is: "Invert. Always invert."
Instead, instead of asking, "What should I add?" ask this question: "What is quietly holding me back? How do I stop it?"
Additionally, in this "Beauty and the Biz" episode, we explore how this approach applies directly to cosmetic practices. Specifically, it is relevant for lead conversion.
Importantly, many practices don't fail because of talent, marketing, or effort. Rather, they struggle because they tolerate:
- First, accepting inconsistent revenues as normal
- Second, leads being "handled" but not converted
- Third, inconsistent follow-up processes
- Fourth, good staff drifting without feedback
Furthermore, a common β and costly β example is the patient coordinator role. Notably, conversion is rarely intuitive. Also, it is rarely trained or managed properly. Consequently, left alone, even good coordinators drift. Instead, with structure, they thrive.
In fact, in the podcast, you'll learn:
- First, why "being nice" isn't enough to convert cosmetic consults
- Second, how uncertainty β not price β kills decisions
- Third, what happens when coordinators are trained and held accountable
- Fourth, why fixing a few silent breakdowns often does more than adding new strategies
Finally, if you're planning for a smoother, more predictable 2026, this "Beauty and the Biz" episode is a conversation worth listening to.
Moreover, enrollment in the "Converting Academy" closes this week!
Additionally, when you enroll by then, you receive three high-value bonuses. These include coordinator compensation plans, follow-up frameworks, and the hiring blueprint β all at no extra cost.
Ultimately, if improving conversion consistency is on your "Fix '26" list, join the "Converting Academy" now.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#coordinatortraining #howtogetmorepatients #convertmoreconsultations
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Catherine Maley, MBA, author and renowned cosmetic practice business coach, explains why converting consults feels harder now. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Why Converting Consults Feels Harder Now Across cosmetic practices nationwide, one pattern keeps showing up.
Instead, surgeons are not struggling because they lack leads. Rather, they are struggling because patients hesitate longer. Consequently, decisions are delayed. Ultimately, patients quietly fall out of the pipeline.
Meanwhile, most practices misdiagnose the problem.
Often, they assume it is pricing. Alternatively, they blame competition. Sometimes, they point to marketing changes. Frequently, they cite "today's patient."
Afterward, after 25 years of training hundreds of patient coordinators, the cause is clear. Additionally, I have reviewed real conversion data.
Importantly, what is breaking conversions today is not clinical skill. Likewise, it is not lead volume. Instead, it is the emotional gap inside the consultation process.
Fundamentally, cosmetic patients decide emotionally first. Then, they justify logically later. When, when no one bridges that emotional gap, hesitation appears. Typically, it sounds like, "I need to think about it."
That's why that is exactly what I unpack in my newest "Beauty and the Biz" podcast episode, "Why converting consults feels harder now."
Specifically, in this episode, I explain:
- First, why cosmetic conversions feel harder than they used to
- Next, how the patient coordinator role has quietly changed
- Additionally, the most common blind spots in modern consultations
- Then, why even good coordinators still miss bookings
- Finally, what high-performing practices are doing differently heading into 2026
In short, if you are seeing schedule inconsistency, this will resonate. Likewise, if follow-through feels weak, it will land. Similarly, if patients need more certainty than they used to, this episode will feel familiar.
P.S. Most patient coordinators have never been professionally trained to guide emotional decisions with confidence. Therefore, that gap is exactly why I created The Converting Academy. 2026 enrollment with extra bonuses is now open.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
#coordinatortraining #howtogetmorepatients #convertmoreconsultations
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Dominick Gadaleta, MD, tells his journey on how 2 young cosmetic surgeons built their Silicon Valley practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
How 2 Young Surgeons Built Silicon Valley Practice Specifically, this week, "Beauty and the Biz" features Dr. Dominick Gadaleta. Additionally, he is a board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon and co-founder of OG Aesthetics in Menlo Park, California. Moreover, this is the heart of Silicon Valley, where Facebook and other tech giants are located.
Initially, Dr. Gadaleta's journey began with a traumatic facial injury at age 14. Subsequently, in just three years, he built a thriving surgical practice. Therefore, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," you'll discover:
- First, how he and his partner spent a full year "dating" to test every business scenario before launching their practice.
- Then, why choosing a modest first location preserved flexibility and cash flow.
- Next, the biggest challenges in private practice, including hiring, culture, and people management.
- Finally, why learning to say "no" to red-flag patients is essential for long-term success.
Furthermore, this honest conversation reveals the behind-the-scenes challenges young surgeons face. Consequently, don't miss this episode of "Beauty and the Biz."
PS: Also, if learning how top performers operate inspires you to level up your own practice, a Practice Growth Strategy Call will show your biggest opportunities. Then, it will explain how to act on them fast.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Gadaleta's website
#dominickgadaletamd #drdominickgadaleta #menloparkcosmeticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Justin Yovino, MD, talks about his journey from struggling under employment to opening his booked out surgical practice in Beverly Hills. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
From Struggling to Booked Out in Beverly Hills Indeed, some surgeons build a practice.
However, a few build a brand.
Then, you meet someone who builds both.
And, they do it by working differently from day one.
This week's episode on "From Struggling to Booked Out in Beverly Hills" on "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. Justin Yovino.
Additionally, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon.
Moreover, he is the founder of Ideal Face & Body in Beverly Hills.
However, his path was anything but traditional.
In fact, his early career looked nothing like his current success.
Beforehand, before becoming known for "awake surgery," natural fat transfer and meticulous liposuction results, Dr. Yovino was:
- First, sharing office space with an older surgeon
- Second, taking ER recon and insurance cases to survive financially
- Third, being paid $200 for complex procedures
- Fourth, learning slowly, one case at a time
- Fifth, saying yes when others said no
Eventually, those choices paid off.
Ultimately, they positioned him to become one of the most in-demand surgeons in Beverly Hills.
In this episode of "From Struggling to Booked Out in Beverly Hills," he explains:
- First, the turning point that changed everything
- Second, how he built a niche with awake surgery
- Third, how Lifestyle Lift and AirSculpt helped grow his brand
- Fourth, what he would do differently if starting today
- Fifth, how he and his anesthesiologist wife built a "dual-engine" practice
- Sixth, why hiring associates failed β and what he learned
Finally, Dr. Yovino reveals the one business decision he nearly skipped.
Consequently, that decision became the best move of his career.
Therefore, don't miss this episode.
PS: Indeed, this is your last chance to complete the Cosmetic Practice Accelerator Scorecard.
Ultimately, most surgeons uncover revenue leaks they never knew existed.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Yovino's website
#awakecosmeticsurgery #justinyovinomd #drjustinyovino
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Raymond Lee, MD, shares his experience in carving out a referral facelift practice in competitive Newport Beach, California. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Carving Out a Referral Facelift Practice Specifically, this week's episode of "Beauty and the Biz" highlights Carving out a Referral Facelift Practice with Dr. Raymond Lee. Additionally, he is a facial plastic surgeon in ultra-competitive Newport Beach. Furthermore, he explains how he built one of the most efficient and referral-driven facelift practices in Southern California.
Initially, Dr. Lee did not start with industry connections, a known brand or an established patient base. Instead, he was told it would be "impossible" for a facial plastic surgeon to stand out in such a saturated region. Nevertheless, he went on to:
- Ultimately perform more than 3,000 facelifts using local or IV sedation
- Gradually sublease a single room, then expand into three full suites and eventually his own ASC
- Consistently build a loyal team that stays with him for four to six years or more
- Successfully create a recognizable brand ("Faceology MD") and secure both the trademark and the domain
- Primarily grow through word-of-mouth referrals and surgical excellence rather than paid ads
Next, here is some of what we covered in Carving out a Referral Facelift Practice:
- First, he discusses his unconventional start at Lifestyle Lift and how it shaped his speed, volume and technique
- Second, he explains how he used subleasing to enter Newport Beach at a manageable cost
- Third, he shares his key lessons in hiring, delegation and retaining long-term staff
- Finally, he outlines why he prefers IV sedation for facelifts and how that choice improves patient satisfaction
Consequently, if you want a practical blueprint for succeeding in a crowded market, this episode delivers. Moreover, it shows how to grow without discounts, gimmicks or hype. Ultimately, it is especially useful if you are expanding, hiring or building a lasting brand.
Therefore, don't miss Dr. Lee's insights in Carving out a Referral Facelift Practice.
PS: Obviously, the Cosmetic Practice Vault works because it's based on real data from real practices.
Specifically, surgeons have used this system to:
- First, increase revenues 27% in six months
- Second, convert 80% of consults
- Third, fix staff performance issues
- Fourth, increase call-to-appointment rate by 30%
- Fifth, increase patient lifetime value by 20%
- Sixth, build a predictable growth flywheel
Thanksgiving Special: 80% Off This Week www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Lee's website
#drraymondlee #raymondleemd #newportbeachfacialplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Heather Levites, MD, shares her journey from cosmetic surgery fellowship to private practice and building two OR suites. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
From Fellowship to Two OR Suites Specifically, in the "From Fellowship to Two OR Suites Podcast," Dr. Heather Levites explains how she built one of Raleigh's newest aesthetic practices from the ground up.
First, she shares how she is a board-certified plastic surgeon trained at MIT, Duke, and Stony Brook.
Additionally, she gained real-world business experience by working inside a multi-physician practice.
Consequently, she learned workflow, systems, and the financial realities new surgeons rarely get taught.
Specifically in this episode of the "From Fellowship to Two OR Suites Podcast," you'll hear how she:
- First, purchased a 3,000-sq.-ft. medical condo. Then, she spent a full year navigating permits, build-outs, inspections, and OR accreditation.
- Next, designed two private OR suites to control block time and reduce overhead.
- Afterward, bridged the financial gap by taking part-time work while she built her brand.
- Finally, hired and trained her first team.
During that time, she handled HR, marketing, nursing, coordination, and operations herself.
Furthermore, Dr. Levites shares the "one mistake" that cost her nearly a year and thousands of dollars.
Ultimately, she explains what happened so you can avoid making the same mistake.
PS: Indeed, the Cosmetic Practice Vault works because it's based on real data from real practices.
Specifically, surgeons have used this system to:
- First, increase revenues 27% in six months
- Second, convert 80% of consults
- Third, fix staff performance issues
- Fourth, increase call-to-appointment rate by 30%
- Fifth, increase patient lifetime value by 20%
- Sixth, build a predictable growth flywheel
Thanksgiving Special: 80% Off This Week www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Levites' website
#drheatherlevites #heatherlevitesmd #levitylifts
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Kailash Narasimhan, MD, shares in this Beauty and the Biz episode, how letting go helped him grow as a facial plastic surgeon. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
How Letting Go Helped This Plastic Surgeon Grow Specifically, "How Letting Go Helped This Plastic Surgeon Grow" explores what happens when a busy surgeon finally stops being the bottleneck. Furthermore, running an aesthetic clinic can feel overwhelming. Additionally, consults, surgeries, staff issues, finances, and marketing all compete for attention.
Moreover, in this week's "Beauty and the Biz" episode, Dr. Kailash Narasimhan explains how he made a major shift. Interestingly, he is double board-certified in plastic surgery and ENT. Furthermore, he has been in private practice in St. Petersburg, Florida, for eight years. Also, he shares how he moved from stressed solo operator to confident CEO. Finally, he explains how simple systems now keep his practice running without his constant involvement.
Specifically, in "How Letting Go Helped This Plastic Surgeon Grow," you'll learn:
- First, why surgeons struggle to delegate β and how Dr. Narasimhan broke the habit
- Next, how he built a high-performing team and learned to trust them
- Then, how shifting from "surgeon" to "business owner" changed everything
- Finally, how he doubled efficiency without increasing stress
Ultimately, the key insight is simple: the most valuable procedure you can perform is on your own practice.
Indeed, most surgeons don't need more leads. Instead, they need a more effective strategy.
Therefore, if you want to uncover the systems and mindset shifts that create sustainable growth, let's talk.
π Book Your Private Call Now
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Narasimhan's website
#kailashnarasimhanmd #drkailashnarasimhan #successfufacialplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Ashkan Ghavami, MD, shares his journey from not being wanted in Beverly Hills, to becoming a world-renowned cosmetic surgeon. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
From "Not Wanted" to World-Renowned Indeed, "From 'Not Wanted' to World-Renowned: Dr. Ghavami" tells the story of how one surgeon rose from rejection to success.
Specifically, when Dr. Ashkan Ghavami arrived in Beverly Hills, no one wanted him there. Afterward, he built a trusted name in aesthetics and gained worldwide recognition.
Now, he's known for his celebrity patients, advanced techniques, and leadership in the field.
Specifically in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Ghavami shares how he built his reputation and business:
- First, how he grew his practice before social media existed
- Then, why "doing great work" isn't enough to stay visible
- Later, what it really takes to run a top-tier practice in Beverly Hills
- Finally, how to stay ethical and competitive in an AI-driven world
In short, this discussion reveals what it takes to build and maintain a premium brand in today's marketplace.
Ultimately, being a great surgeon is one thing. However, building a great business is another.
Shockingly, one strategic hour can save months of trial and error.
Therefore, book a Strategy Review Zoom call to identify missed opportunities.
Then, map the fastest route to more bookings, higher revenue, and smoother operations.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Ghavami's website
#drashkanghavami #ashkanghavamimd #successfulaestheticpractice
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Tania Hassanzadeh, MD, discusses her journey on leaving employment for autonomy in building her Beverly Hills, California practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Leaving Employment for Autonomy Hassanzadeh's leap from employee to Beverly Hills practice owner.
Obviously, most surgeons spend years working for others before going solo. However, Dr. Tania Hassanzadeh, a Beverly Hills facial plastic surgeon, made that leap in just one year.
Interestingly, after her fellowship in Boston under a top surgeon, she joined a thriving Beverly Hills practice. Soon, she realized she wanted full autonomy. Therefore, owning her patient photos, shaping her marketing, and building her brand mattered more than job security.
Specifically, in this week's episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Hassanzadeh shares how she took control of her career. Moreover, she reveals what it takes to open a solo practice in one of the most competitive cities in the world.
To summarize, in this episode, you'll learn:
- First, why she left a stable position after just one year
- Next, how she protected her brand and patient imagery through careful contracts
- Also, the emotional and financial challenges of launching a Beverly Hills practice
- Finally, her best lessons for surgeons seeking freedom and control
Ultimately, Dr. Hassanzadeh's story is an honest look at independence, ambition, and risk. Therefore, listen to "Beauty and the Biz" for powerful insights on building a successful practice from scratch.
Indeed, think your practice is running at full potential? Actually, the data might surprise you.
In short, take two minutes to get your Practice Growth Score and see where you're gaining β and where you're losing profits.
π Start the Scorecard Now
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Hassanzadeh's website
#beverlyhillsfacialplasticsurgeon #drhassanzadeh #drtaniahassanzadeh #taniahassanzadehmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Jeffrey Epstein, MD, shares how we found great success after he went all in on hair in his Miami, Florida practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Doctor Epstein Went All in on Hair After 30 years in private practice, most surgeons start to slow down.
However, not Dr. Jeffrey Epstein. Instead, he is a facial plastic surgeon in Miami who decided to specialize in one area β hair restoration.
As a result, that single decision turned his practice into a global brand. Eventually, it also caught the attention of private equity investors.
Now, in this week's episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Epstein explains how narrowing his focus became the key to long-term success.
Specifically, he reveals:
- First, why going "all in" on one procedure made his practice recession-proof
- Next, how specialization built trust with affluent patients worldwide
- Then, what it's really like to partner with a PE firm while keeping control
- Finally, how mentoring new surgeons helped expand his legacy
Therefore, if you want to grow your practice without losing your personal touch, this episode of "Beauty and the Biz" is a must-listen. Indeed, it's a master class in scaling without compromise.
Still, private equity isn't right for everyone. However, Dr. Epstein's story shows how it can fuel growth while preserving control and integrity.
Finally, practices that score highest on the Practice Growth Scorecard consistently outperform their peers. Therefore, don't guess where you stand β know for sure.
π Start the Scorecard Now
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Epstein's website
#drjeffreyepstein #miamihairrestoration #jeffreyepsteinmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA, PhD(c), shares pearls from her new book on how to know if your practice culture is holding you back and how to fix it. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Is your practice culture holding you back? Specifically, this week on "Beauty and the Biz," I sat down with Lisa Marie Wark, MBA, PhD(c). Therefore, she shared her insights as a consultant, fractional CEO, and author of the book "Patients, People, Process: A Modern Guide to Culture, Service, and Growth in Private Practice."
Moreover, after more than 20 years behind the scenes of medical practices, Lisa has seen everything. Consequently, she knows what makes teams thrive β and what makes them toxic. Additionally, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," she explains how culture can make or break your success.
Specifically, here's what we cover:
- The No. 1 sign of a dysfunctional culture (most surgeons miss it)
- How "loyal" employees can quietly block growth β or worse
- Simple process changes that keep you profitable and sane
- Leadership habits that turn burnout into high performance
Furthermore, if your team feels flat or your revenue doesn't match your workload, this episode of "Beauty and the Biz" is for you. Similarly, Lisa shares a shocking story about a "trusted" manager who embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars β and how to make sure it never happens to you.
Finally, practices that score highest on the Practice Growth Scorecard consistently outperform their peers. Therefore, don't guess where you stand β know for sure.
π Start the Scorecard Now
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Lisa Marie Wark's website
#lisamariewark #patientspeopleprocess #cosmeticsurgerybusinessbook
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Brendan Alleyne, MD, who was featured on "National Geographic," shares his journey from performing face transplants to joining a fellowship. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Face Transplants to Fellowship β Discover Dr. Alleyneβs journey from face transplants to leading a modern aesthetic practice. Specifically, in this week's episode on "Face Transplants to Fellowship: Dr. Alleyneβs Unique Path," I spoke with Dr. Brendan Alleyne.
Additionally, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon in St. Peters, Missouri, and a partner at Renaissance Plastic Surgery.
First, Dr. Alleyneβs impressive training includes participating in the nationβs first face-transplant team at the Cleveland Clinic. Next, he trained under Dr. Rod Rohrich in Dallas. Later, he joined a respected multi-surgeon practice in Missouri.
Moreover, in this episode, he explains what it takes to earn partnership in an established group. Specifically, he discusses navigating egos, bridging generational gaps, managing finances, and shaping practice culture.
Importantly, he shows how to maintain your identity as a surgeon and leader while doing all of this.
If youβve ever wondered, how to join or run a group practice without losing control of your future, then this podcast is a must-listen. Similarly, few practices achieve the balance Renaissance enjoys. Finally, Dr. Alleyne shares exactly how they did it.
P.S., if your practice isnβt growing as it should, the issue isnβt your patients β itβs your process.
Therefore, schedule your private Practice Growth Strategy Review today β Book now Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Alleyne's website
#drbrendanalleyne #brendanalleynemd #facetransplantsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Scott Miller, MD, of La Jolla, California, shares his own experience in writing, publishing and marfketing a consumer book for patients. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Writing a Consumer Book for Patients First, this week on the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, I welcomed back Dr. Scott Miller. Next, heβs a board-certified plastic surgeon in La Jolla, California. Then, we didnβt focus on surgery. Instead, we talked about writing books.
Also, Dr. Miller just released his new consumer book, "Authentic Beauty: Defining a New Standard of Care and Results in Plastic Surgery."
What Youβll Learn in This "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast
- First, why Dr. Miller felt compelled to write a book for patients
- Next, his 10-year journey of false starts, focus, and finally finishing it
- Then, how a book can clarify your message, strengthen staff culture, and elevate patient expectations
- Finally, the biggest misconceptions patients have about plastic surgeryβand how he dispels them
Therefore, if youβve thought about writing a bookβor wondered how publishing can change your brandβthis "Beauty and the Biz" podcast episode is packed with takeaways.
Moreover, Dr. Miller shares why authenticityβnot trends or hypeβsets surgeons apart today.
Finally, donβt miss this "Beauty and the Biz" podcast episode with Dr. Scott Miller.
P.S. Likewise, do you want to know whatβs keeping your practice from scaling smoothly? Typically, it comes down to a few gaps.
π [Click here to discover the top practice pearls.]
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Miller's website
#scottmillermd #drscottmiller #lajollaplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Raja Mohan, MD, discusses what they donβt teach you in fellowship and how he learned the business and marketing side of running a practice. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What They Donβt Teach You in Fellowship Specifically, Dr. Raja Mohan is a board-certified plastic surgeon in Dallas. Additionally, he trained at MIT, Johns Hopkins and the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute.
However, when he completed his fellowship, he realized he had almost no training in the business side of medicine.
Still, that didnβt stop him. Instead, he started from scratch β with no office, no staff and no systems. Nevertheless, he built a thriving cosmetic surgery practice in one of the most competitive markets in the U.S.
Chiefly, in this weekβs "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, Dr. Mohan explains:
- First, why joining a senior surgeon often feels like a βsecond fellowshipβ in business
- Next, the common mistakes new associates make with exit strategies β and how to avoid them
- Finally, how he built confidence as both a surgeon and a business owner by learning on the job
Thus, his story proves that success in plastic surgery is more than surgical skill. Instead, it also requires resilience, adaptability and leadership.
Finally, this "Beauty and the Biz" podcast episode is full of lessons most surgeons only learn the hard way. So, donβt miss it.
P.S. Likewise, do you want to know whatβs keeping your practice from scaling smoothly? Typically, it comes down to a few gaps.
π [Click here to discover the top practice pearls.]
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
Visit Dr. Mohan's website
#drrajamohan #rajamohanmd #dallasplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Discover the 5 Shifts to Attract and Keep More Cosmetic Patients through reviews, referrals and social exposure. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
5 Shifts to Attract and Keep More Cosmetic Patients First, many cosmetic practices still believe discounting attracts new patients. However, the truth is that discounting is the worst way to grow revenue.
Therefore, the most successful practices now grow faster. In addition, they charge more. Specifically, they do this by making five key shifts that:
- First, add thousands to the bottom line
- Next, reduce stress and staff burnout
- Finally, remove the need for costly ads and discounts
Learn the β5 Shifts to Attract and Keep More Cosmetic Patientsβ Next, in this weekβs βBeauty and the Bizβ podcast, I explain the β5 Shifts to Attract and Keep More Cosmetic Patients Without Ads or Discounts.β Furthermore, you will discover how to:
- First, build βpatients for lifeβ instead of one-and-done transactions
- Second, stop discounting and replace it with a smarter strategy
- Third, use the secret weapon that grows your practice automatically
- Fourth, see why retention has become the new attraction
- Finally, lock patients to your practice with the KiSS Loyalty Club β not competitors
Why These 5 Shifts Matter As a result, practices using these shifts create loyal patients. Moreover, they grow predictable revenue. Ultimately, they stop the discount treadmill.
π [See the KiSS Demo and Special Founderβs 25th Anniversary Rate and Bonuses. Then Reserve Your Area Now.]
P.S. Finally, only a few spots remain in the KiSS 25th Anniversary rollout. Specifically, youβll get 25% off, reduced setup ($997 vs. $2,997), and my $5,000 Vault bonus.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#kissclub #kissloyaltyclub #kissrewardsclub #patientloyaltyclub #patientloyalty
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
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Steven Davison, MD shares his own journey through the hidden costs of building your own surgery center in competitive Washington, DC. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
The Hidden Costs of Building Your Own Surgery Center Specifically, this week on "Beauty and the Biz," I spoke with Dr. Steven Davison.
Interestingly, he is a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in Washington, D.C., with more than 17 years in private practice.
Also, Dr. Davison has trained generations of surgeons at Georgetown.
Moreover, he's delivered more than 95 lectures worldwide. In addition, he built one of the most advanced practices in the D.C. area.
In summary, that includes a two-OR, Medicare-certified surgery center β a project most surgeons would never attempt.
To summarize in "The Hidden Costs of Building Your Own Surgery Center," Dr. Davison shared:
- First, why he left academia after nine years for private practice
- Next, the career turning points he has seen over the decades
- Then, hard lessons from building a surgery center, including hidden carrying costs
- Finally, how staffing and governance can determine success or failure
Therefore, if youβre considering expansion or adding a surgery center, listen to this podcast first. Clearly, his advice can help you avoid costly mistakes.
P.S. Importantly, only a handful of surgeons in D.C. have cleared the regulatory hurdles Dr. Davison faced. Ultimately, his insights could save you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Davison's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#stevendavisonmd #drstevendavison #davinciplastic
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
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Gaurav Bharti, MD, shares the marketing blueprint for his 11 location surgical and med spa empire that spans across 5 states. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Blueprint for 11 Location Empire First, what does it take to grow a cosmetic practice from one location to 11? Next, how do you do it without private equity running the show?
In this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I talk with Dr. Gaurav Bharti. Moreover, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon and co-founder of HKB Cosmetic Surgery. Then, we cover the business strategies behind building a high-growth, surgeon-owned aesthetic empire.
Specifically, youβll learn how to:
- First, leave behind security to take a calculated risk. Then, make it pay off.
- Next, scale through smart partnerships instead of PE takeovers.
- Additionally, build systems, values, and leadership that unite 200-plus employees.
- Finally, decide whether to join a bigger group or launch your own practice.
Importantly, Dr. Bharti is straightforward, sharp, and generous with advice. Therefore, if you want to expand, partner, or optimize your current practice, this "Beauty and the Biz" episode will change how you think about growth.
P.S. Ultimately, if youβre planning to expand or sell to private equity, I can share what successful practices do.
Furthermore, these strategies can secure long-term growth and higher valuations. Finally, I can connect you with the right experts. Letβs talk.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Bharti's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#gauravbhartimd #hkbcosmeticsurgery #drgauravbharti
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
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Doctor Rod Rohrich discusses his unique practice model and whatβs made him stand out in highly competitive Dallas, Texas. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Unique Practice Model Obviously, running a practice today is more complicated than ever. Indeed, staffing issues, business struggles, and patient expectations create constant challenges.
Therefore, I invited Dr. Rod Rohrich, MD β board-certified plastic surgeon, educator, and founding partner of the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute β onto the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast.
Consequently, in "Rod Rohrichβs Unique Practice Model," he explains how he built one of the most effective business systems in plastic surgery.
Specifically, youβll learn:
- First, how he moved from academia to private practice. Consequently, that perspective still guides him today.
- Second, the unusual group model at DPSI. In fact, 12 surgeons share ORs, a medspa, and even an in-house hotel while staying independent.
- Third, why transparency, contracts, and leadership are essential for long-term success.
- Finally, how to retain staff for decades by uniting them under one clear vision.
As a result, if you want to balance independence, profitability, and teamwork, this episode is full of proven strategies.
Furthermore, Dr. Rohrich shares the same lessons he teaches his fellows and partners.
Ultimately, these insights can save you years of frustration.
P.S. Similarly, you can lock out competitors and put βgolden handcuffsβ on your patients with the KiSS Loyalty Club.
Specifically, we do 95% of the work.
Consequently, your patients return, refer, review, and share you on social media β all without ads or discounts.
Certainly, click here to see if your area is still available.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Rohrich's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drrodrohrich #rodrohrichmd #drrohrich
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
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PCC Tools to Convert More Consults with training, CRM, and incentives that help coordinators boost bookings, surgeries, and revenue growth. Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
PCC Tools to Convert More Consults into Surgeries Firstly, cosmetic patients today are sophisticated and skeptical. Additionally, they have endless information at their fingertips. Consequently, they shop around, compare surgeons, check reviews, scroll through before-and-after photos, and scrutinize your online presence before ever visiting your office.
Therefore, your Patient Care Coordinator (PCC) is no longer just a βnice-to-haveβ role. Instead, it is a critical business driver. In fact, think of this role as your practiceβs chief revenue officer.
Moreover, a skilled PCC connects with prospective patients. Furthermore, they build trust, answer tough questions, and guide hesitant consumers from curiosity to commitment.
For example, if the average surgical case is worth $10,000, closing just five additional surgeries per month adds $50,000. Consequently, this translates to $600,000 annually. Also, this does not include repeat treatments, referrals, or lifetime value from patients who return for additional procedures.
However, marketing dollars are wasted if consultations donβt convert. In other words, spending $20,000 per month on ads and SEO is ineffective if your coordinator cannot build rapport, articulate your value, or confidently close. Therefore, the smartest practices invest heavily in their PCC. Specifically, they equip them with the right tools, training, and incentives to succeed.
Hiring the Right Personality Firstly, conversion begins with connection. Additionally, patients care more about comfort with the person guiding them than credentials alone.
Moreover, a PCCβs role focuses on addressing emotions rather than technical details. For example, the coordinator should be likable, friendly, empathetic, confident, goal-oriented, self-motivated, disciplined, and a strong problem-solver.
On the other hand, avoid candidates who are transactional, shy, or disorganized. Furthermore, PCCs must initiate conversations, guide discussions, and ask for decisions.
Notably, technical knowledge can be taught. However, empathy, charisma, curiosity, and self-determination are innate qualities that cannot. In fact, one national survey found that over 70% of elective surgery patients cited a coordinatorβs warmth as a major factor in deciding to book.
Ultimately, when hiring, consider presence, communication style, and the ability to connect. Consequently, a strong PCC can add millions in lifetime revenue.
Set Clear Goals and Tie Them to Rewards Firstly, hiring the right personality is only step one. Additionally, even the best PCC underperforms without structure. Therefore, clear goals and meaningful rewards give your coordinator focus, motivation, and ownership over results.
For instance, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffettβs longtime partner, famously said, βShow me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.β Accordingly, behavior almost always follows incentives.
Too often, coordinators are treated as glorified receptionists. Instead, set defined key performance indicators (KPIs) and tie them to tangible rewards. Consequently, this elevates the role into a revenue-driving position.
At minimum, PCCs should be measured on:
- Lead response time.
- Consultations booked.
- Show rate for consultations.
- Conversion rate from consult to surgery.
- Revenue collected through their efforts.
Moreover, tracking these metrics identifies strengths and weaknesses. For example, if many consults are scheduled but few convert, objection-handling training is needed. Conversely, if conversions are strong but consults are few, lead generation needs improvement.
Compensation Models Firstly, compensation can take several forms:
- Base Salary: Provides financial security and reduces desperation-based closing tactics.
- Flat Bonus per Surgery Booked: Simple and effective. For example, $200 per case.
- Tiered Bonus: $100 per case for the first 10, then $150 for the next 10.
- Percentage of Revenue: For instance, 1β2% of surgical revenue booked.
- Chargebacks: Cancelled cases reverse bonuses, motivating coordinators to ensure commitment.
Furthermore, compensation is not only financial. Recognition and achievement matter. For example, monthly leaderboards, quarterly awards, and public praise encourage performance.
However, avoid creating a prima donna. Instead, incentives should motivate while keeping team cohesion intact.
Benchmarks to Aim For Firstly, industry benchmarks vary by practice. However, consult-to-surgery conversion averages 45β60%, often higher with professional PCC training. Additionally, lead response times should be under five minutes for calls and texts and under one hour for email.
Consequently, goals and incentives transform your PCC from an administrator into a revenue growth engine.
Provide the Right Tools Firstly, even the most charismatic coordinator cannot close consistently without proper tools. Consequently, expecting them to manage inquiries with sticky notes, memory, or cluttered email is ineffective.
Therefore, a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) system is crucial. For example, a CRM captures, organizes, and tracks every lead from inquiry to surgery. Additionally, look for:
- Lead capture from phone, website forms, social media, and referrals.
- Pipeline tracking to monitor patient progress.
- Task reminders to ensure follow-ups.
- Automated email and text messaging.
- Reporting dashboards to track KPIs.
- Call recording for documentation and quality assurance.
Moreover, a CRM ensures that leads are followed up consistently. Data shows most patients require 7β10 touches before booking. Consequently, automation for emails and texts saves time and increases conversion.
Furthermore, a CRM highlights gaps in your lead funnel. For example, you can see:
- How many inquiries came in.
- How many were contacted quickly.
- How many scheduled consults.
- How many showed up.
- How many booked surgery.
For instance, a Miami practice implemented a CRM, automated follow-ups, and objection-handling scripts. Consequently, their consult-to-surgery rate rose from 48% to 71%, adding $750,000 in annual revenue without increasing marketing spend.
Consultation Room Design Firstly, the consultation environment influences conversion. Consequently, create a private, professional room that supports PCC efforts.
Moreover, environmental psychology shows that lighting, seating, and dΓ©cor affect comfort and trust. For example, soft lighting and eye-level seating foster openness.
Key elements include:
- Privacy: A closed, soundproof door ensures confidentiality.
- Comfortable seating: Arrange chairs to review photos and quotes together.
- Lighting: Soft, warm light creates calm, unlike harsh fluorescent lights.
- DΓ©cor: Neutral, elegant design reinforces professionalism.
- Technology: Screens or tablets help visualize results.
- In-house signage: Display awards and press features to build trust.
Furthermore, an NYC practice redesigned its consultation room with plush chairs and warm lighting. Consequently, their consult-to-surgery conversion rose 17% within three months.
Demonstrating Value Firstly, patients need clarity on why to choose your practice. Additionally, the PCC should communicate differentiators, such as surgeon experience, safety standards, advanced technology, and exceptional service.
Moreover, the PCC can act as a walking testimonial. For example, if theyβve undergone a procedure themselves, their personal experience builds credibility.
Furthermore, provide complementary consult cards for social distribution. Consequently, patients can easily schedule appointments.
Also, storytelling helps overcome skepticism. For example, share patient success stories and photos that address common objections. Consequently, uncertainty transforms into confidence.
Handling Price and Financing Firstly, price objections are common. Therefore, provide a clear financing menu including full payment, third-party financing, and prepayment incentives.
Moreover, present options visually. Consequently, patients focus on comfort rather than affordability.
For example, a New York practice implemented a one-page menu, and conversion rates rose 22%.
Offering Strategic Wiggle Room Firstly, not every patient commits immediately. Therefore, subtle incentives encourage hesitant patients without lowering fees.
Additionally, psychology shows that scarcity, urgency, and recognition motivate action. For example, offer limited-time perks, gifts with surgery, or multi-procedure savings.
Consequently, your PCC can close more cases while maintaining value integrity.
Training, Coaching, and Accountability Firstly, continuous development is essential. Additionally, PCCs must refine skills, practice objection-handling, and stay current on procedures and financing.
Moreover, coaching should be ongoing. Consequently, schedule regular reviews, celebrate wins, address challenges, and track metrics such as lead-to-consult rate, consult-to-surgery rate, and revenue collected.
For example, a Dallas practice implemented a weekly PCC scorecard. Consequently, consult-to-surgery rates rose from 41% to 68% in six months.
Conclusion Firstly, the PCC is not just an appointment setter. Instead, they are the growth engine of your practice. Additionally, when properly hired, trained, incentivized, and equipped, they transform inquiries into loyal surgical patients.
Furthermore, the strategies outlinedβhiring for personality, setting measurable goals, providing systems, creating an ideal consultation environment, clarifying value, equipping sales tools, offering incentives, coaching, and tracking metricsβwork together to maximize conversions.
Ultimately, the cosmetic marketplace is more competitive than ever. Consequently, practices that invest in PCCs gain a strong competitive edge, converting consultations into revenue, referrals, and lasting patient relationships.
Finally, donβt wait. Train, equip, and support your PCC, and watch consultation conversion rates soar. For professional training and ongoing coaching, visit ConvertingAcademy.com.
Lastly, thank you for listening to βBeauty and the Biz.β Please subscribe and leave a review if you found this valuable.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticpracticecoordinator #plasticsurgerycoordinator #cosmeticsurgerycoordinator
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Next week, Iβll show how these strategies fit into a bigger retention and referral system. Then, it runs quietly in the background for you. So, get private early access: [Last Chance to Join the VIP Waitlist + Get the 5 Fixes Checklist] Why the Next 12 Months Will be Harder for Cosmetic Lead Gen β with Catherine Maley, MBA Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Why the Next 12 Months Will be Harder for Cosmetic Lead Gen In summary, this new episode of the βBeauty and the Bizβ podcast explains why cosmetic practice lead gen will get harder over the next 12 months.
Additionally, it is becoming more expensive.
Here are two major reasons you should act now:
AI leveled the playing field First, competitorsβeven solo injectorsβcan create pro-level blogs, ads, videos and social posts in minutes. Furthermore, the cost is almost zero. Also, they can look and sound like national brands without hiring agencies or paying for production.
Consequently, the speed and volume of their content floods the market. Therefore, if you donβt match their pace, your practice risks becoming invisible.
Organic reach is dropping fast Similarly, social platforms like Instagram, Facebook and TikTok prioritize paid ads. Thus, fewer of your followers see your posts unless you boost them.
Likewise, Google search also pushes ads, maps and βPeople Also Askβ above organic results. Accordingly, ranking where patients click is harder than ever.
Ultimately, chasing new leads will always matter. However, itβs no longer the most reliable growth strategy.
Finally, only one practice per market gets access to the solution Iβll share. Hence, join now for the 5 Fixes Checklist and see how to grow without more staff or ad spend.
[Join the Waitlist + Get the 5 Fixes Checklist]
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#themactalks #multispecialtyaestheticconference #kissloyaltyclub
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Business Insights for Growth β with Catherine Maley, MBA Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Business Insights for Growth Obviously, most surgeons excel in the operating room. However, many struggle to run their practice like a business. Thatβs why I discussed this with Candace Crowe on her βThe Croweβs Nestβ podcast in the episode βBusiness and Marketing Strategies to Grow a Thriving Cosmetic Surgery Practice.β
What Youβll Learn in βBusiness and Marketing Strategies to Grow a Thriving Cosmetic Surgery Practiceβ Specifically, this episode reveals proven business and marketing strategies that separate top cosmetic practices from the rest. Moreover, youβll discover:
- First, the mindset shift every surgeon must make to scale without burnout
- Next, how to attract high-performing, committed staff
- Then, why patient retention delivers a bigger ROI than new patient acquisition
- Finally, how to turn one happy patient into a steady stream of quality referrals
Ultimately, if youβve wondered how top surgeons grow without losing control, this interview has the answers. Furthermore, it shows you exactly how to build a practice that thrives.
Therefore, listen now to βBusiness and Marketing Strategies to Grow a Thriving Cosmetic Surgery Practiceβ and learn how to run your practice like a profitable business.
Special Message: Importantly, your most loyal patients could become your biggest revenue source. Soon, it will take zero extra effort from your team. Next, Iβll unveil a done-for-you system that automates loyalty, referrals, and reviews. Finally, weβre launching with only 25 practices nationwide.
So, watch your inbox.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Candace Crowe's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#candacecrowedesign #thecrowesnestpodcast #candacecrowe
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Marc Mani, MD, shares his insight and experience on what it really takes to succeed in Beverly Hills as a cosmetic surgeon.
Indeed, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." and consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills Firstly, "What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills" is more than just talent. Moreover, itβs about mindset, media, and marketing.
On this weekβs episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. Marc Mani. Indeed, he is one of L.A.βs top plastic surgeons, named by "The Hollywood Reporter" and featured by Gwyneth Paltrow on "Goop."
Additionally, Dr. Mani shared how early TV exposure helped jump-start his career.
Furthermore, he explained what media attention canβand canβtβdo for your long-term success.
Specifically in "What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills," youβll hear:
- First, why he charged premium fees from the very beginning
- Second, how he built a word-of-mouth empireβwithout spending on ads
- Also, what confidence, mentorship, and mindset have to do with growth
- Finally, why referrals from the right patients are more powerful than TV fame
If you want to elevate your brand, attract elite clients, and grow a high-end practice, "What It Really Takes to Succeed in Beverly Hills" is a must-listen.
Lastly, if you're ready to attract more affluent patients who never question your fees, letβs talk.
In fact, in a 1:1 Strategy Review, Iβll show you exactly whatβs blocking your growthβand how to fix it.
π Book your Strategy Session now before your competitors do.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Mani's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#beverlyhillsfacialplasticsurgeon #marcmanimd #drmarcmani
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Specifically, on this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Andreas Lindahl, MD, PhD, shares his journey, setbacks and successes on building a private practice in Sweden.
Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Building a Private Practice in Sweden Interestingly, in this weekβs episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I speak with Dr. Andreas Lindahl.
Specifically, heβs a board-certified plastic surgeon and Ph.D. who built a thriving private practiceβeven within Swedenβs socialized healthcare system.
In this episode, youβll discover:
- Initially, how he transitioned from burn unit researcher to aesthetic surgeon
- Then, the rare fellowship that changed the course of his career
- Afterward, what it took to open a private surgical center from scratch
- Finally, why choosing not to scale brought more income and more personal freedom
Ultimately, Dr. Lindahlβs journey is a blueprint for building a practice on your own terms.
Altogether, his story is about strategy, values, and intentional success.
π Therefore, listen now to learn how to build a private aesthetic practiceβno matter the system youβre in.
P.S. Ready to grow your own practice with confidence? Then, book a private Growth Strategy Call today. Specifically, Iβll help you:
- First, attract more patients
- Second, streamline your operations
- Third, scale upβwithout burning out
CLICK HERE
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Lindahl's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#andreaslindahlmd #drandreaslindahl #uppsalaplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Specifically, on this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Catherine Maley, MBA, talks about cosmetic patients, what they want, and why on Dr. Kimβs βYou Are Beautifulβ podcast.
Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Cosmetic Patients: What They Want and Why Recently, I joined Dr. Jae Kim on his "You Are Beautiful" podcast.
Specifically, we discussed a topic we both care deeply about: the psychology of the cosmetic patient.
In this episode, we talk about:
- First, what todayβs aesthetic patient really wants (spoiler: itβs more than just a procedure)
- Next, how social media, status, and emotion influence decisions
- Then, why surgeons must master both their craft and their business
- Finally, the unspoken truths about consultations, pricing, and patient conversion
Overall, if you serve cash-paying patients, this episode is a must-listen.
Importantly, youβll walk away with insights you can use right away to attract and convert more patients.
β‘ P.S. Special Pricing Ends Soon Typically, smart practices use the summer slowdown to retrain, retool, and relaunch. Consequently, theyβre ready to grow when demand picks up again.
However, this is your last chance before the special pricing expires.
So, if you want your staff to:
- First, book more surgery consultations
- Second, convert more consults into procedures
- Third, cross-promote all of your services
Then, the Summer Staff Accelerator Toolkit is the solution.
Specifically, youβll get:
- Three high-impact staff trainings
- My top strategies, scripts, and action plans
- A simple system thatβs fast to implement and pays for itself
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Kim's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#youarebeautifulpodcast #drjaekim #jaekimmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Specifically, on this episode of "Beauty and the Biz," youβll discover what you can learn from Doctor Miamiβs wild growth and apply it to your own practice.
Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
What You Can Learn from Dr. Miamiβs Wild Growth Certainly, youβve likely heard of Dr. Miami. However, you may not know the business strategies that built his brand.
This week on "Beauty and the Biz," I sat down with Michael Salzhauer, MDβalso known as Dr. Miami. Specifically, heβs a board-certified plastic surgeon who created a high-performing practice in Bay Harbor Islands, Florida.
Indeed, heβs not just a viral personality. Instead, heβs a sharp entrepreneur with a solid business foundation.
For example, he:
- First, bought a four-story building with parking, operating rooms, and recovery suitesβall within walking distance of home
- Second, performs surgery daily and remains fully booked
- Third, outsourced consults and scheduling so his team can focus on clinical care
- Fourth, targets niche demographics that resonate with his message
As a result, his high-volume practice runs smoothly and profitably.
Additionally, we explored the systems that keep things moving, the mindset he applies to hiring, and the decisions that shaped his growth.
Ultimately, even if you donβt plan to go viral, youβll pick up strategies to scale smarter and faster.
P.S. You donβt need more leads β you need better conversions.
Importantly, our three-part Summer Accelerator will teach your team how to turn more calls and consults into booked surgeries. Specifically, no discounting or extra stress required.
[Grab the special offer before it disappears.]
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Salzhauer's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#doctormiami #drmiami #michaelsalzhauermd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss going from a $10K loan to building a premium practice brand..
Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
From $10K to Premium Practice Brand Indeed, maybe youβre building your practice with grit and duct tape. Fortunately, youβre not alone.
Specifically, this week, on "Beauty and the Biz," I interviewed Dr. George Bitar.
Furthermore, he is a board-certified plastic surgeon who grew up in war-torn Lebanon. Remarkably, starting with only $10,000 and a single exam room, Dr. Bitar built one of Virginiaβs most respected plastic surgery brands.
To summarize, today, his premium practice includes:
- First, a 6,500-square-foot surgery center with two operating rooms and in-house anesthesia
- Second, a 3,500-square-foot medspa and wellness center
- Third, more than 25 team members across two locations
Interestingly, during our conversation, we discussed the leadership and business choices that fueled his growth, including:
- Primarily, why he turns away 25% of consultations to protect his brand
- Additionally, how he builds loyalty by promoting from within
- Moreover, why every hire must be unanimously approved by his leadership team
- Finally, what tasks he delegates and what he keeps under his control
Ultimately, if you want to grow your practice without losing your values or peace of mind, this episode is a must-listen.
P.S. You donβt need more leads β you need better conversions.
Importantly, our three-part Summer Accelerator will teach your team how to turn more calls and consults into booked surgeries. Specifically, no discounting or extra stress required.
[Grab the special offer before it disappears.]
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Bitar's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#georgebitarmd #drgeorgebitar #getpremiumcosmeticpatients
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how Carson Williams, MD made his young practice realize big results and hereβs how he did it.
Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Young Practice, Big Results: Hereβs How He Did It So how does a young plastic surgeon climb to the top 1% of RealSelf in just three years?
Luckily, youβll find out in this weekβs episode of "Beauty and the Biz." Specifically, I speak with Dr. Carson Williams MD, a facial plastic surgeon based in Leawood, Kansas.
Clearly, heβs scaling his practice with strategy, speed, and precision.
In this episode, Dr. Williams reveals how he:
- First turned a slow practice with only 1β2 surgeries per week into a growing clinic
- Then tripled surgical volume in just one year
- Next grew from $250K per year to consistent high six-figure months
- Finally dropped insurance to reclaim his schedule and improve profits
Additionally, he shares what surprised him most about hiring staff and building team culture.
Importantly, he explains why trust matters even more than marketing in a competitive metro suburb.
Ultimately, if you want to grow a thriving aesthetic practice β regardless of age or location β this episode is for you.
After all, Dr. Williams didnβt buy his results. He built them with intention, discipline, and execution.
Above all, his approach can save you years of wasted time.
π‘ Donβt Wait to Train Your StaffMeanwhile, every week you delay is a week of missed opportunities. So train your team now with our proven conversion toolkit. π Click here to get it today
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Williams' website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#carsonwilliamsmd #drcarsonwilliams #leawoodplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how Bryan Pruitt, MD, has run his practice for 25 years with no partners or PE and here's how he did it. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
25 Years, No Partners, No PE: Hereβs How He Did It What if you could build a thriving plastic surgery practice without private equity, injectors, or social media?
As it turns out, Dr. Bryan Pruitt, a board-certified plastic surgeon in Dallas, has done exactly that.
In this weekβs episode of βBeauty and the Biz,β he shares how he built and maintained a profitable, independent practice for over 25 years.
To begin with, he explains how he moved from reconstructive work to a 100% aesthetic focus.
Then, he reveals why he chose to stay leanβwithout extenders, medspa services, or product sales.
Next, he discusses how a small, dedicated team has kept his practice efficient and highly profitable.
Later, he reflects on his experience covering hospitals around the clock and how owning his own surgical suite changed his workflow.
Finally, he shares why focusing on your strengths can be the smartest growth strategy of all.
Overall, Dr. Bryan Pruitt has built a high-end, referral-based practice while keeping control of his time, business, and lifestyle.
P.S. If you want your cosmetic practice to grow without racing to the bottom on price, focus on positioning.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Pruitt's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drbryanpruitt #bryanpruittmd #dallasplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how Douglas Steinbrech, MD, set out in building three thriving practices for men. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Building Three Thriving Practices for Men. Indeed, do you want to learn how to build three thriving cosmetic surgery practices focused on men in New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago?
Specifically, on this weekβs episode of βBeauty and the Biz,β Dr. Douglas Steinbrech, a board-certified plastic surgeon and founder of Alpha Male Plastic Surgery, shares his proven blueprint for success.
Originally, he started with humble beginnings in Iowa. Now, he leads three high-performance practices across the country.
Additionally, Dr. Steinbrech reveals what it really takes to grow a plastic surgery business without burning out.
In this candid interview, youβll discover:
- Firstly, the smartest ways to expand your practice into multiple cities.
- Secondly, how to hire and afford a rockstar staff who keeps operations running smoothly.
- Also, why investing in operations managers frees up his time for surgery.
- Finally, his biggest mistake in scaling β and how you can avoid it.
Therefore, if you want to grow your cosmetic surgery practice beyond where it is now, this episode offers a masterclass in leadership, operations, and niche domination.
P.S. Summer limited-time offer:
Instead of wasting money on ads, invest in training your team to convert leads into booked procedures. This way, this staff toolkit can pay for itself with just one new patient.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Steinbrech's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#malecosmeticsurgery #drsteinbrech #alphamalecosmeticsurgery
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how Sheila Malek Kassir, MD went from being an actress to becoming an international surgeon. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
From Actress to International Plastic Surgeon: How Dr. Sheila Kassir Built a Global Brand First, imagine building a plastic surgery empire across New York, New Jersey and Germany.
Then, add a medspa, a wellness center, a skincare line and a surgical conference.
Meanwhile, Dr. Sheila Kassir is also raising two kids, with one more on the way.
Specifically, in the latest episode of "Actress to International Surgeon," she shares how she scaled her business without losing focus or purpose.
In summary, she reveals:
- First, how she opened multiple thriving locations (and what nearly broke her)
- Next, why she hired a C-suite team early in her journey
- Then, how she balances family life with international expansion
- Finally, what itβs like running a business with her husband, a celebrity facial plastic surgeon
Ultimately, if youβve ever wondered how top practices scale and still stay grounded, this episode is for you.
So, tune in now for practical insights you can applyβwhether you're just starting out or growing fast.
π― Bonus: Before you go, take the Practice Growth Scorecard.
Specifically, itβs a fast self-check across five key areasβand shows where profits may be leaking.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Kassir's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#sheilakassirmd #drsheila #drsheilakassir #nycplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll explore the pros and cons of joining an established practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βPros and Cons of Joining Established Practice β with Meredith Kugar, MD.β Obviously, if youβre a newly trained surgeon with drive and ambition, you're facing a big decision.
Specifically, should you start your own practice from scratch?
Alternatively, should you join an established group and carve out your space?
Specifically, in this weekβs episode of "Beauty and the Biz," I spoke with Dr. Meredith Kugar.
Notably, sheβs a young plastic and reconstructive surgeon at Meridian Plastic Surgeons in Carmel, Indiana.
Together, we explored the pros and cons of joining an established practice.
For example, youβll hear:
- First, why she chose a legacy group with deep roots
- Then, what itβs like to be an employed surgeon vs. an owner
- Next, how sheβs managing staff, EMR upgrades, and leadership roles
- Additionally, what it means to step into a succession plan as founders near retirement
- Finally, how her Wall Center fellowship shaped her business mindset
Ultimately, if youβre thinking about growth, partnership, or succession planning, this episode offers a fresh perspective.
Clearly, βPros and Cons of Joining Established Practiceβ will help you weigh independence vs. alignment.
π― Bonus: Before you go, take the Practice Growth Scorecard.
Specifically, itβs a fast self-check across five key areasβand shows where profits may be leaking.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Kugar's website
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#carmelindianaplasticsurgeon #drmeredithkugar #meredithkugarmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discover if you are actually scaling or just spending more. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βAre You Scaling or Just Spending More? β with Jennifer Walden, MD, Jessica Hunter, MBA, Catherine Maley, MBA.β Lately, is your aesthetic practice growingβbut profits arenβt?
Thatβs exactly what we explored on a recent expert panel for the "Business of Aesthetics" podcast.
Specifically, we focused on how to scale your practice without overspending.
During the episode, we shared real-world strategies you can use right away:
- First, why overspending on devices, space, and staff slows growth
- Next, how to build smarter memberships, packages, and pricing
- Then, how to convert more consultsβwithout discounts
- After that, the fastest way to boost revenue (hint: itβs not more leads)
- Finally, how AI and automation are changing everything in 2025
Ultimately, no matter your stage, this episode will help you find revenue leaks, streamline operations, and scale with confidence.
Visit www.BusinessOfAesthetics.org for the free gift mentioned in this webinar.
P.S. How Scalable Is Your PracticeβReally?
Most cosmetic surgeons think theyβre doing fineβ¦ until they see how they compare.
This short scorecard will show you:
π Start the assessment here Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeryprofits #cosmeticpracticeprofits #cosmeticpracticerevenues
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll talk about Doctor Karimi's blueprint on going from hustle to empire Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFrom Hustle to Empire β Doctor Karimiβs Blueprint β with Kian Karimi, MD.β Indeed, have you ever wondered how a surgeon, fresh out of fellowship, builds a multimillion-dollar practice in one of the most competitive markets?
Specifically, in the latest episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast, Dr. Kian Karimi, a leading facial cosmetic surgeon, shares his journey. Furthermore, he went from hustling in the ER to founding the Kian Aesthetic Institute, a 10,000-square-foot facility in Los Angeles.
In summary, hereβs what youβll learn:
- First, Dr. Karimi shares how he bootstrapped his practice in LA. With no connections, he hustled ER calls to fill his schedule.
- Next, he explains how he scaled his practice. From a two-room office, he grew to a 26-person team, all while maintaining profitability and delivering an exceptional patient experience.
- Then, Dr. Karimi discusses his legacy. He co-founded the Los Angeles Multi-Specialty Cosmetic Academy and created a sustainable conference that attracts 350 professionals each year.
- Finally, he offers practical advice. He explains how to balance business growth with family time and mental health.
Certainly, tune-in to dive into Dr. Karimiβs step-by-step playbook for sustainable growth. In short, no fluff, just real-world tactics you can apply to your practice today.
P.S. If you havenβt already, take this 2-minute assessment to uncover $50K+ in hidden monthly revenue. Donβt leave money on the tableβtake it now.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Karimi's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#kiankarimimd #drkiankarimi #lafacialplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll talk about how Doctor Kwitko built his solo practice of 31 years wtihout compromising. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, β31 Years Solo, Built Without Compromising β with Geoffrey Kwitko, MD.β To begin, how do you run a successful cosmetic practice on your own for 31 years?
Specifically, how do you keep a full schedule of cosmetic and insurance patients, avoid wait times, and maintain staff for decades?
Indeed, thatβs exactly what Dr. Geoffrey Kwitko has done.
Currently, heβs a board-certified oculoplastic and neuro-ophthalmic surgeon in Tampa Bay, Florida.
Specifically, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz", Dr. Kwitko shares what led to his long-term success.
Notably, he talks about the business side of his journey.
For example, he explains how he chose the right location and purchased his building.
Interestingly, he hires coffee shop workers instead of unreliable applicants.
Importantly, he also shares why he refuses to bring on an associateβand doesnβt need to.
Specifically, hereβs what youβll learn:
- First, why he left Canadaβs healthcare system to go solo
- Next, how his real estate investment paid off
- Then, how he created a loyal team with almost no turnover
- Finally, how he screens patients and protects his professional reputation
Ultimately, if youβre a surgeon who values independence, efficiency, and long-term profit, this is an episode you donβt want to miss.
P.S. If you havenβt already, take this 2-minute assessment to uncover $50K+ in hidden monthly revenue. Donβt leave money on the tableβtake it now.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Kwitko's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drgeoffreykwitko #geoffreykwitkomd #tampabayeyesurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll talk on the topic of "inside The Aesthetic Society presidency." Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βInside the Aesthetic Society Presidency β with Kiya Movassaghi, MD.β To begin with, how do you keep your plastic surgery practice running smoothly while traveling to 48 cities and 21 countries as President of The Aesthetic Society? Thatβs why, I asked Dr. Kiya Movassaghi in this weekβs video.
Specifically, he shared exactly how he:
- First, balanced travel, leadership, and surgery without burning out
- Then, structured his team to run the business in his absence
- In addition, relied on a strong medical spa and selective high-value surgeries
- Surprisingly, built a social media following of 270K β even though he hates social media
- Importantly, kept his physical and mental wellness a top priority (including runs in the snow and swims in the Persian Gulf!)
Furthermore, we discuss whatβs next now that heβs passed the baton β including advisory boards, Ironman training, and spending more time with family.
Without a doubt, this is a must-listen if you want to scale your influence without sacrificing your practice.
Finally, βDr. Mβ shares how AI, business training, and smart staffing are the new βsurvival kitβ for any surgeon who wants to stay relevant.
P.S. IMPORTANT NOTICE! Donβt miss this rare opportunity to level up your coordinatorβs skills and get instant access to the $5,000 Cosmetic Practice Vault for free.
This combo is designed to convert more consults and smooth out your practice processes βfast.
NEW!
Indeed, most solo plastic surgeons are unknowingly losing $50K+/month due to hidden revenue leaks. To be sure, here is how to stop the drip, drip of lost revenues.
Click Here to get your Practice Growth Plan.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Movassaghi's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drkiyamovassaghi #kiyamovassaghimd #theaestheticsocietypresident
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll talk with Anna Frants, MD, and how she built a thriving practice on Park Avenue in 2 years. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βHow She Built a Thriving Practice on Park Avenue in 2 Years β with Anna Frants, MD.β Indeed, what does it really take to go from fellowship to a fully booked schedule in a high-end Park Avenue practiceβwhile juggling motherhood, surgery, and serious growth?
Presenting, Dr. Anna Frants. Specifically, sheβs my latest guest on "Beauty and the Biz", and she shares how she strategically positioned herself to succeedβfast. Moreover, in our conversation, we discuss:
- First, the business mindset she picked up from the biggest names in plastic surgery.
- Additionally, why she chose a private-practice fellowship over academia.
- Furthermore, how she evaluated job offers and negotiated the right structure.
- Moreover, what itβs like to share one OR with three other surgeonsβand make it work.
- Finally, how she handled being the βnew kidβ without stepping on toes.
In short, this is an insiderβs look at the business side of practice-building that most surgeons never talk about.
P.S. IMPORTANT NOTICE! Donβt miss this rare opportunity to level up your coordinatorβs skills and get instant access to the $5,000 Cosmetic Practice Vault for free.
This combo is designed to convert more consults and smooth out your practice processes βfast.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Frants' website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#nyfacialplasticsurgeon #parkavenuefacialplasticsurgeon #annafrantsmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss if AI can help or hurt your cosmetic practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βCan AI Help or Hurt Your Cosmetic Practice? β with Clark Mackey.β First of all, AI is everywhere.
But specifically, what does it mean for your practice?
To find out, listen to this episode of "Beauty and the Biz."
Here, I talk with Clark Mackey.
Importantly, heβs a certified Google Partner.
Also, he has 20 years of digital marketing experience.
Together, we break down how AI affects plastic surgery practices.
Specifically, youβll learn:
- First, how AI affects your website traffic
- Then, how it impacts patient leads and reviews
- Also, how it can save you time and money
- However, how using it wrong can hurt patient trust
- Finally, what tools you can start using this week
Clearly, this isnβt just theory.
Instead, these are real strategies.
Undoubtedly, they help you stay relevant.
Additionally, they help you grow.
Ultimately, they help you earn more.
P.S. Before you go, Clark made a free AI guide just for you. Now, grab it here: cakewebsites.com/ai
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Mr. Mackey's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cakewebsites #clarkmackey #googlepartner
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how a family practice can turn into a thriving partnership. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFamily Practice to Thriving Partnership β with Joseph L. Hill Jr., MD.β First, are you wondering how to turn a family practice into a thriving partnership? Next, Dr. Joseph Hill did just that. Then, he joined his father-in-lawβs plastic surgery practice right out of training. Soon, a few years later, he was running it. Meanwhile, he worked alongside his former residency colleague and his cousin.
Now, in this weekβs "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, Dr. Hill shares his journey. Specifically, he explains how he went from residency to partner in a growing private practice in Lexington, Kentucky. Additionally, he opens up about family dynamics, partnership challenges, and business expansion.
In summary, here's what youβll learn:
- First, the pros and cons of working with family
- Second, how to structure fair partnerships and streamline decision-making
- Next, expanding from 5,000 to 10,000 square feet
- Furthermore, hiring, incentivizing, and building a strong workplace culture
- Finally, the power of giving back to the community
Ultimately, if you want to grow a family practice into a thriving partnership, this episode is packed with insights. Moreover, youβll learn how to expand, attract more patients, and build a sustainable practice. So, donβt miss it!
P.S. If your coordinator is not booking surgery like you want, you are losing money. When I train your coordinator to confidently and consistently book more surgeries, you could easily add an extra $50Kβ$100K or more per monthβwithout spending another dime on advertising.
Itβs the fastest, most cost-effective way to grow your bottom line. Donβt leave money on the table. Join nowβ¦
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Hill's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#lexingtonplasticsurgeon #drjosephhill #josephhillmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss building a practice from scratch. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βWalking Away from Private Equity β with Stephen Prendiville, MD.β So, what happens when a facial plastic surgeon builds a thriving solo practice?
First, he creates a surgical center and two med spas. Then, he joins private equity. However, after a few years, he decides to walk away.
Specifically, in this episode, Dr. Steven Prendiville, a facial plastic surgeon in Florida, shares his journey. Chiefly, he explains how he built a streamlined, profitable practice focused on facial rejuvenation surgery.
Additionally, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz", we cover:
- First, the risks and rewards of private equity and why he chose to exit
- Second, why he walked away from two med spas
- Key lessons about staffing, leadership, and staying focused on your strengths
In summary, if you're interested in building a successful plastic surgery practice on your own terms, this episode is a must-listen.
P.S. Ready to Level Up Your Practice? The most successful plastic surgeons donβt rely on luck β they follow proven strategies to consistently attract better patients, convert more consultations, and boost their bottom line.
Iβve worked with leading surgeons across the country to grow smarter and scale faster β and Iβd love to do the same for you.
Book your Growth Strategy Call now β before your competitors beat you to it.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Prendiville's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#fortmyersfacialplasticsurgeon #drstephenprendiville #stephenprendivillemd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss building a practice from scratch. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βBuilding From Scratch β with Claire Melancon, MD.β First, what does it take to successfully launch and scale a private plastic surgery practice? Next, how can you overcome unexpected challenges along the way?
In this weekβs episode of the "Beauty and the Biz Podcast", I talk with Dr. Claire Melancon. Sheβs a facial and reconstructive surgeon with private practices in Uptown New Orleans and Mandeville, LA.
Dr. Melancon shares her incredible journey, including:
β First, transitioning straight from fellowship in Houston, TX, to starting her own practice in her hometown. β Then, choosing an upscale location for her office, next to Starbucks and a Pilates studio. β Additionally, overcoming construction delays, a hurricane, and giving birth to twinsβall within three years! β Finally, key lessons learned in staffing, leadership, and maintaining low overhead while growing.
If youβve ever wondered what it truly takes to build and scale a successful plastic surgery practice, this episode is packed with valuable insights. You donβt want to miss it.
Furthermore, if youβre wondering how to face the real challenges of opening and growing your own practice, this episode is filled with essential strategies and tips.
P.S. Ready to Scale Your Practice? Top plastic surgeons donβt leave their growth to chance. Instead, they use proven business strategies that attract high-value patients, boost conversions, and maximize profitability. Iβve helped leading plastic surgeons nationwide transform their practices into profitable, scalable businesses. Therefore, I can help you do the same. Book Your Growth Strategy Call Now before your competitors do!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Melancon's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#neworleansfacialplasticsurgeon #neworleansfemalefacialplasticsurgeon #clairemelanconmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss running a one-room, one-woman, $1 million gross practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βOne Room, One Woman, $1 Million Gross β with Sinehan Bayrak, MD.β First, imagine running a thriving plastic surgery practice without traditional staff. Instead, you handle everything with automation and Instagram. Consequently, youβre fully booked months in advance.
Specifically, thatβs exactly what Dr. Sinehan Bayrak, a facial plastic surgeon in Philadelphia, has done. In fact, her story amazed me at the annual AAFPRS conference when she gave a talk titled: β1 Room, 1 Woman, and $1 Million Grossβ
- Initially, she built her practice from scratch in Philadelphia. Notably, she knew no one.
- However, she quickly realized hiring and managing staff wasnβt the right fit for her.
- Therefore, she invested in automation and social media. As a result, it worked.
Now, her entire practice operates online:
- Appointments are booked digitally
- Communication is via text-only (no phone calls!)
- Quotes and payments are fully automated
The result? Sheβs booked 3-4 months in advance. Moreover, she has a waitlist of patients eager to see her.
In short, if youβve ever wondered how to run a lean, profitable practice in todayβs tech-driven world, you wonβt want to miss this.
P.S. If youβre ready to streamline your practice, attract premium patients, and increase profitabilityβall while working smarter, not harder. Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Bayrak's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#sinehanbayrakmd #drsinehanbayrak #westchesterfacialplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss the 10 most powerful business lessons. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βThe 10 Most Powerful Business Lessons β with Catherine Maley, MBA.β Finally, weβve hit 300 episodes! To celebrate, Iβm revealing the 10 most powerful business lessons from top plastic surgeons.
Over time, Iβve discovered what sets thriving, multimillion-dollar practices apart. Instead, some struggle to grow. Clearly, the difference comes down to strategy.
In this milestone episode, youβll learn:
- First, the mindset shifts that 7- and 8-figure surgeons swear by.
- Next, how to attract high-value patients and convert more consultations.
- Finally, the leadership, marketing, and business systems that create lasting success.
Hereβs a preview: Lesson #3: The Best Practices Have the Best Teams Undoubtedly, top surgeons donβt just hire employees. Instead, they build a high-performing team that drives revenue.
Specifically, they:
- First, hire slow and fire fast. Toxic staff can destroy a business.
- Then, train their team like a sales force. Every touchpoint must build patient trust.
- Finally, incentivize performance. Motivated staff help grow the practice.
Clearly, your team should be an asset, not a liability.
In fact, a well-trained staff can double your revenueβwithout spending more on marketing.
So, are you ready for the rest? Listen now!
P.S. Ready for the Next Growth Level? The most profitable and in-demand plastic surgeons donβt just βhopeβ their practice growsβthey implement proven business strategies that attract high-value patients, increase conversions, and maximize profitability. Iβve helped top plastic surgeons across the country transform their practices into scalable, high-revenue businessesβand I can do the same for you.
Book your Growth Strategy Call now before your competition does! Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#surgeonentrepreneur #plasticsurgerybusinesscoach #cosmeticpracticebusiness
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how to brand yourself for exclusivity. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βBrand Yourself for Exclusivity β with Ramtin Kassir, MD.β First, what does it take to stand out? Similarly, how do you build a thriving plastic surgery practice? Furthermore, how do you accomplish this in one of the worldβs most competitive markets?
Specifically, for this week's "Beauty and The Biz" podcast, I interviewed Dr. Ramtin Kassir.
Notably, he is a celebrity facial plastic surgeon.
Currently, his practice is on Park Avenue.
In addition, he runs a medspa and a surgical center in New Jersey.
Meanwhile, his international clientele is booming.
At first, Dr. Kassir had no roadmap when he started.
Instead, he relied on relentless drive.
More importantly, he had a willingness to figure things out.
To summarize this episode, he shares:
β Firstly, how he built his practice from scratch in NYC (without realizing how competitive it was!) β Secondly, the importance of leadership, management, and having the right team β Thirdly, why scaling to multiple locations is a double-edged sword β Finally, how he branded himself for exclusivity and built a high-end, in-demand practice
Above all, Dr. Kassir shares an inside look at what it truly takes.
Ultimately, scaling a plastic surgery practice to international success is not easy.
P.S. Want help overcoming the obstacles holding your practice back? Book a Growth Strategy Review today.
P.S. Elevate Your Brand at the Facelift Master Course To begin with, branding is the silent force behind every elite plastic surgery practice.
At the Facelift Master Course in New York City (May 3β5, 2024), Iβll share proven branding strategies. Specifically, these strategies position you as the go-to expert in your field.
Notably, this exclusive three-day event is led by Dr. Ramtin Kassir and an elite faculty of renowned surgeons.
Hereβs what youβll get: β First, 1-on-1 training β Next, Live surgeries β Finally, Hands-on cadaver labs
β³ Remember, early registration ends March 31!
Ultimately, stop being just another option. Instead, become the category leader.
π Click Here to Register Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Kassir's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#faceliftmastercourse #ramtinkassirmd #drramtinkassir
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss juggling recon and cosmetic patients. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βJuggling Recon and Cosmetic Patients β with Kristopher Day, MD.β Naturally, the biggest fear for a plastic surgeon leaving academia to start their own practice is: Will I make it financially without the safety net of a big institution?
Recently, my latest guest on Beauty and the Biz was Dr. Kristopher Day, who faced that same concern. Specifically, he is a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon with six years of experience in academia. Three years ago, he took the leap into private practice in Bellevue, Washington.
Importantly, Dr. Day shared his journey of transitioning from academia to private practice. Notably, he continues to perform reconstructive surgery. However, he has also expanded into cosmetic procedures, including post-bariatric and gender-affirming surgeries.
Additionally, he discussed:
- Firstly, the challenges and rewards of navigating the business and marketing side of a young practice.
- Secondly, how mentorship helped him save time, money, and avoid costly mistakes.
- Thirdly, the complexities of balancing reconstructive and aesthetic surgery, from office setup to staffing.
Ultimately, the move to private practice has been a rewarding one for Dr. Day. Fortunately, he has found more balance. Now, he can spend quality time with his wife and kids.
P.S. Want help overcoming the obstacles holding your practice back? Book a Growth Strategy Review today.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Day's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#bellvueplasticsurgery #drkristopherday #kristopherdaymd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss going straight to private practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βStraight to Private Practice β with Saba Motakef, MD.β First, imagine launching your own private plastic surgery practice. Specifically, you have no prior experience, skip a fellowship, and do it just as the world shuts down due to COVID-19. Amazingly, thatβs exactly what Dr. Motakef did.
Indeed, starting from scratch, Dr. Motakef had the courage to leave a hospital setting. In turn, he took the leap into private practice. Without a doubt, there was no time for traditional paths. Instead, he relied on resourcefulness. Then, he turned to his mother-in-law to help run his new office. At the same time, he quickly adapted to the challenges of the pandemic.
Miraculously in just a few years, his practice has flourished. Specifically, he built a strong team and honed his vision. Moreover, he created a culture of excellence by learning to hireβand fireβquickly to maintain his standards.
Now, heβs on the brink of another milestone. As a result, he plans to expand into a larger office space to offer in-house procedures.
Ultimately, Dr. Motakefβs story is a testament to resilience, adaptability, and the power of making bold moves. In short, if youβre looking to grow your practice or overcome your own challenges, his journey offers inspiring lessons.
P.S. Want help overcoming the obstacles holding your practice back? Book a Growth Strategy Review today.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Motakef's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#anaheimplasticsurgeon #sabamotakefmd #drsabamotakef
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how to regroup after a disaster. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βRegroup After Disaster β with Kate OβConnor, MD.β Clearly, running a thriving practice comes with challenges. Surprisingly, few surgeons embody resilience like Dr. Catherine OβConnor MD, a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Nashville, Tennessee, for the past three years.
Specifically, this week, on "Beauty and the Biz", Dr. OβConnor shares her incredible journey of leadership and perseverance.
Previously, she had leased a sought-after brick building on Music Row. Fortunately, when the opportunity to buy it arose, she jumped at the chance. Unfortunately, just weeks later, disaster struck.
Suddenly, a pipe burst on the top floor, flooding all three stories over a weekend. Consequently, water destroyed floors, exam rooms, and equipment. Immediately, her team scrambled for solutions.
Thankfully, hereβs where her leadership truly shined:
- First, she acted fast, securing a temporary space. Patients continued receiving care with minimal disruption.
- Next, she empowered her staff, keeping the focus on recovery. At the same time, patient care remained a top priority.
- Finally, she found opportunity in crisis. The setback became a chance to improve operations while rebuilding.
Meanwhile, as if that werenβt enough, sheβs also expecting her first child. Undoubtedly, sheβs proving that resilience isnβt just for businessβitβs a way of life.
Ultimately, Dr. OβConnorβs story is a powerful example of adaptability. Specifically, she shares key lessons from overcoming adversity and growing her practiceβno matter what.
Certainly, if you need inspiration to tackle your own challenges, this episode is a must-listen.
P.S. Want help overcoming the obstacles holding your practice back? Book a Growth Strategy Review today.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. O'Connor's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#nashvillefemaleplasticsurgeon #nashvilleplasticsurgeon #kateoconnormd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss building a world-class team. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βBuilding a World-Class Team β with Manuel A. Lopez, MD.β Indeed, what does it take to run a thriving plastic surgery practice with 50 team members?
Specifically, Dr. Manuel Lopez, a facial plastic surgeon and founder of Advanced Aesthetics Lopez Plastic Surgery and L Spas in multiple areas of San Antonio, Texas, believes the answer lies in one simple but profound principle.
Simply put, itβs not about making moneyβitβs about providing world-class patient care.
Now, in the latest episode of "Beauty and the Biz," Dr. Lopez dives deep into the systems and leadership strategies that drive his success.
Specifically, hereβs what youβll learn:
- First, How Leadership Sets the Tone: He ensures everyone feels heard and valued.
- Then, The Secret to Hiring Rock Stars: He sets clear expectations during the interview process.
- Afterward, Processes Over Profit: When issues arise, itβs usually the processβnot the peopleβthat needs fixing.
- Finally, Motivating Staff: A productivity-based pay structure creates accountability.
Ultimately, Dr. Lopez isnβt just growing his practice. Instead, heβs building an environment where both his team and patients feel supported every step of the way.
P.S. Are you ready to uncover the hidden opportunities in your practice? My Practice Growth Review is designed to help you fine-tune your people, processes, and patient experience to uplevel your profits.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Lopez's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#manuelalopezmd #drmanuelalopez
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss mastering surgery and business growth. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMastering Surgery AND Business Growth β with John Vartanian, MD, FACS.β Obviously, mastering the art of blending business acumen with surgical excellence is a complex challenge for plastic surgeons. Specifically, clinical skills demand years of training and precision. However, running a practice requires an entirely different set of expertise.
Therefore, surgeons must balance patient care with business operations. For example, this includes managing overhead, optimizing workflows, and building a high-performing team.
In summary, hereβs what youβll learn:
- First, overcoming common challenges: Indeed, Dr. Vartanian discusses the hurdles most surgeons face. Specifically, these include managing overhead, balancing patient care, and handling business operations. Additionally, he shares how he addressed them head-on.
- Second, streamlining operations: Next, learn how optimizing processes and improving team communication transformed his practice. As a result, these changes saved time and reduced stress.
- Third, making data-driven decisions: Finally, discover how tracking key metrics and analyzing performance helped him. Consequently, this allowed him to identify growth opportunities and make smarter business decisions.
Ultimately, this is real-world advice from a surgeon who has successfully blended his clinical expertise with sound business principles.
P.S. Time to level up? Whether you're looking to attract more cash-paying patients, streamline your processes or boost your profits, Iβm here to help. With decades of experience helping plastic surgeons grow their practices, Iβve developed proven strategies tailored to your unique challenges.
Letβs uncover opportunities, tackle obstacles and map out a clear plan for your successβall in one powerful session. Click below to schedule your personalized Growth Session today!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Vartanian's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drjohnvartanian #johnvartanianmd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss multiple revenue streams. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMultiple Revenue Streams β with Gregory A. Buford, MD, FACS.β First of all, have you ever wondered if you could be doing more with your hard-earned expertise?
Indeed, meet Gregory Buford, MD. To be sure, heβs a board-certified plastic surgeon with 25 years of experience in private practice in Lone Tree, Colorado.
Moreover, he runs his own surgical practice. Additionally, he trains others in non-surgical treatments. Specifically, he also advises aesthetic practices, consults with pharmaceutical companies, and promotes supplements to speed up patient recovery.
Certainly, in my latest "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, Dr. Buford shared how he:
- Firstly, balances multiple income streams without spreading himself too thin.
- Secondly, uses his clinical expertise to advise pharmaceutical and device companies. As a result, he gains early access to cutting-edge treatments.
- Thirdly, introduced supplements that help patients heal faster. Therefore, this is both an added revenue source and a patient-pleaser.
- Fourthly, still finds time to explore new projects and maintain a fulfilling personal life.
To summarize, if youβve been feeling stuck or are ready to expand, Dr. Bufordβs story is proof that you can leverage your experience and skills into other profitable endeavors.
Finally, this is how you stay busy, profitable, and excited about the future.
P.S. Last Chance to celebrate my 25th Anniversary working with plastic surgeons to grow their cosmetic revenues. Iβm offering to help you make 2025 your best year ever. Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Buford's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drgregorybuford #gregorybufordmd #coloradoplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how one bold move doubled revenues for Dr. Ford. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βHow One Bold Move Doubled Revenues β with Derek Ford, MD, FRCSC.β What if one bold decision could double your revenues and completely transform the way you run your practice?
Specifically, this weekβs episode of Beauty and the Biz features an interview with Derek Ford, MD, a Royal College-certified plastic surgeon in private practice with offices in Toronto and Ontario. In summary, in the interview, we discuss how Dr. Ford took calculated risks that paid off in big ways. First, letβs dive into his story:
Indeed, after leaving academia, Dr. Ford started small by renting space in a colleagueβs office. Then, as his practice grew, he moved to a 1,100-square-foot medical building near a hospital. Additionally, the building provided access to a surgical center. However, he soon realized that he needed more control and flexibility to truly grow his cosmetic practice.
Interestingly, thatβs when he made the bold move to buy his own condo in a high-end retail neighborhood, just blocks from the hospital. Consequently, he built out a state-of-the-art facility with two operating rooms and patient consultation areas, all under one roof.
In short, hereβs the kicker:
- First, this move doubled his revenues.
- Next, the ability to perform surgeries and see patients in the same space was a game changer.
- Additionally, he reduced operational costs and improved efficiency while elevating the patient experience.
Moreover, Dr. Ford shares his fears. He wasnβt sure he could afford the investment. However, his story proves that calculated risks can lead to extraordinary rewards.
Finally, if youβre looking for inspiration to take your practice to the next level, then this episode is packed with insights and lessons you wonβt want to miss.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Ford's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#derekfordmd #drderekford #torontoplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss Karol Gutowski, MD's challenging journey to private practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βChallenging Journey to Private Practice β with Karol A. Gutowski, MD, FACS.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Obviously, itβs common for plastic surgeons to start their careers in academia, where they benefit from the security of a steady paycheck and the support of colleagues while honing their surgical skills. However, this sense of security often gives way to frustration with increasing bureaucracy and limited control over patient care.
Consequently, many seek more autonomy by transitioning to private practice, only to face a new set of challenges.
Specifically in this episode of Beauty and the Biz, I interview Dr. Karol Gutowski, a board-certified plastic surgeon with 20 years of experience who now runs a private practice in Glenview, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago.
Notably, Dr. Gutowski shared invaluable insights about transitioning from an academic and hospital-employed career to building a successful private plastic surgery practice.
Indeed, hereβs what youβll discover:
- First, learn about Dr. Gutowskiβs early struggles and how he overcame them to thrive in his own practice.
- Next, uncover the pivotal decisions he made that led to his success, including his unique approach to patient acquisition through med spas and leveraging consumer platforms.
- Finally, understand the importance of autonomy and control that comes with being your own boss and how it impacted his professional satisfaction and finances.
Ultimately, Dr. Gutowskiβs journey is not only inspiring but also packed with practical pearls that could transform your own practice.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Gutowski's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drkarolgutowski #karolgutowskimd
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss the topic of "does an MD need an MBA?" Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βDoes an MD Need an MBA? β with Cory S. Goldberg, BSc, MD, MASc, FRCS(C), FACS, MBA.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β First, a Masterβs in Business Administration (MBA) provides skills in financial management, marketing, strategic planning, and leadership. Moreover, these skills can increase efficiency while maximizing practice profits. Furthermore, an MBA can help create a smooth-running practice with motivated, high-performing staff.
In short, should you head back to night school to add an MBA degree to your CV?
Specifically, this weekβs "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast guest holds both MD and MBA degrees, so weβll let him answer that question.
Additionally, Dr. Cory Goldberg, a Royal College-certified plastic surgeon with advanced training in craniofacial surgery at the University of Southern California and Cedars-Sinai Hospital, completed an executive MBA. Specifically, he pursued the degree to develop non-hospital surgical facilities for Ontario while also consulting with pharmaceutical companies on business development.
Now, in private practice in Toronto, Canada, Dr. Goldberg brings a unique perspective. Importantly, he shared his insights on:
- Transitioning from public to private practice and the challenges involved.
- The entrepreneurial journey of building non-hospital surgical facilities.
- Balancing cosmetic and reconstructive surgery for comprehensive patient care.
Finally, this conversation is not just about his personal journey. It also explores strategic approaches to practice expansion, understanding market trends, and the impact of an MBA on surgical practice management.
P.S. While you were in training to become a surgeon, I was in business school getting my MBA so I can easily map out the business and marketing side of your plastic surgery practice for you, so it runs like a well-oiled machine. Click here for a complimentary strategy call and letβs talk.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Golderberg's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#drcorygoldberg #plasticsurgeonmba #torontocosmeticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where you'll learn my 4 Game-Changing Shifts to Thrive in 2025. Additionally, we'll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." I'm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, "4 Game-Changing Shifts to Thrive in 2025 β with Catherine Maley, MBA." Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β With everything happening in the world right now β relentless competition, changing patient trends and behaviors, and technological breakthroughs like AI βitβs the perfect time to rethink how you attract and convert cash-paying cosmetic patients.
In this episode, Iβll share a fresh perspective on how to grow your revenues without relying on advertising or discounting.
Youβll learn How to scale your cosmetic revenues without ads, even in competitive markets.
Why premium pricing can actually deliver better results for your patients and your bottom line,
As well as a simple yet powerful plan that boosts patient visits while keeping overhead low.
Plus, Iβll lay out proven strategies that work on autopilot to bring in premium patients that generate predictable cash flow, while creating a more streamlined and fulfilling practice.
So, this episode is for you If youβve been experiencing yo-yo revenue or if youβre doing ok but know you could be doing better.
- Iβll show you how to 10X your revenue using the resources you already haveβwithout depending on expensive ads or time-consuming social media strategies.
- Youβll learn how to increase visits, referrals, reviews, and shares in a fun, effortless wayβby leveraging your existing patients (your lowest-hanging fruit).
- Youβll also discover how to attract ideal, high-paying patients while filtering out those who drain your energy.
Because too many practices are stuck in a cycle of:
- Competing on price and hurting profit margins.
- Spending more on ads while seeing diminishing returns, and
- Dealing with the stress of inconsistent revenue and undesirable patients.
Plus, social mediaβwhile effectiveβrequires significant time and effort to showcase YOU as the face of your practice. You might have noticed how exhausting it is to juggle the roles of surgeon, marketer, AND content creator.
The bad news is that cosmetic patient attraction is not going to get any easier.
The competition isnβt going away. And, as surgical and non-SX advancements increase, patients have more options. If you donβt build strong relationships early, theyβll choose your competitorsβand stay there.
And with google ads rates increasing 20-50% this year alone, while also taking away your audience targeting capabilities, this marketing channel will only get more expensive.
And it looks like AI is going to seriously disrupt google search rankings big time and that could mean less organic traffic to your website.
To combat all of this, I have 4 game-changing shifts youβll want to embrace to thrive in 2025 so you feel in control with a predictable and reliable plan to keep your revenues coming in month after month and all year long and youβll lock out your competitors and make it impossible for them to steal your patients away because your patients are loyal to you and see you as the ONLY choice, as well as the BEST choice.
It's like putting golden handcuffs on your patients so they wouldn't dream of going elsewhere.
So here are 4 key shifts to make in 2025 that most TOP cosmetic practices do that other less successful practices donβt so here goes:
Shift #1: Patient Centric vs. Money Centric
When you shift your thinking from a βOne and Doneβ money grab event to a βPatients for Lifeβ mindset, you win the long game because....
Instead of thinking about your own bottom line and what's best for you, you think about what is best for your patient.
This shift in thinking changes your perspective as well as your attitude about the services you provide.
You now see and treat patients as family and friends. They see your practice as a friendly safe haven. They trust you and your staff to take good care of them.
That trust is what keeps them coming back again and again.
Think about it this way....
You cater to a very hungry audience of cosmetic patients who care about their appearance.
They have endless needs for a lifetime, thanks to the aging process.
For example, they may want Botox today and then a laser treatment months later, and then surgery, and then back to non-surgical treatments to keep their look fresh. This goes on for decades.
So, commit to treating your patients like friends and family by giving them a 5-star patient experience and they will stay with you for the long run.
They will also reciprocate by growing your revenues for you by returning to YOU rather than your competitors.
And by referring their friends, family, gym buddies, coworkers and neighbors.
And by giving you great online reviews that thousands of other potential patients will see online.
And by sharing you on their own social media platforms so THEIR followers get to know you and contact you because they're ready for your services.
Think of your cosmetic patients as your lifeblood to all you want in lifeβ¦such as a fulfilling livelihood that affords you a comfortable lifestyle that supports your family, your interests and your financial future.
I have to tell you when you start looking at your patients in this different light, that changes your perspective, as well as your attitude and your patients feel that shift and act accordingly.
Shift #2: Command Premium Pricing
In other words, stop discounting!
You donβt want to advertise specials to attract new patients because all you will attract are the WRONG patients who nickel and dime you to death.
Discounting eats away your profits and itβs a race to the bottom.
Thereβs a better way to attract new patients without discounting, while ensuring they are your preferred patients who care more about you than saving a buck, but letβs first talk about why youβre not charging higher pricesβ¦
Either you think this industry is commoditized and your expertise isnβt worth higher pricesβ¦ORβ¦.
You think you will lose patients to your low-balling competitors if you donβt discount.
But here's the thing...discounting doesnβt work. Youβll end up attracting price-shoppers who only care about a low price.
Youβll work way harder because you need more of these low-priced patients to make a profit. And youβll deal with more issues from these penny-pinchers who end up giving you bad reviews and complaining about your service (or lack thereof).
And frankly, itβs a race to the bottom that you canβt win.
Instead, you set higher standards to attract higher value cosmetic patients who gladly pay more for great customer service.
This group enthusiastically brags about you to their other high-value friends, leaves you 5-star reviews and is a pleasure to work with.
When you really get this, it changes everything.
So rather than discount, you set higher standards for great customer service and smooth processes so your patients have a WOW patient experience every time.
That's because you have enough revenues coming in to treat your patients better than if you are penny pinching on expenses and cutting back on the very things patients will pay extra for such as an excellent patient experience and special treatment.
And, In terms of your revenue goals, there's an easier or harder way to get to $1 million.
For example:
You can cater to the βprice shoppersβ who are worth $500 to you so you need 2,000 of them OR you can raise your standards, attract better patients who have the financial wherewithal to pay more for a better experience, and become your practice ambassadors who are worth $5K to you so now you only need 200 of them.
That's how you scale and work less but get better results.
And hereβs something else to considerβ¦.
You need to Mirror Behavior You Want from those very Patients because there is NO escaping cause-and-effect.
If you want high-end patients that will gladly pay more for your services, then give them a high-end experience and excellent customer service.
If you want patients to stop negotiating and gladly pay your FAIR prices - YOU stop negotiating and pay fair prices.
Do you want decisive patients who donβt procrastinate when making decisions? Then youβll need to be decisive!
Do you want agreeable patients who are a pleasure to work with? Then you Be agreeable and be sure your staff be the same.
Because what you give out β you give back.
Itβs really that simple.
Shift #3: Use the Secret Weapon
The majority of cosmetic practices go about attracting new patients and growing their revenues the wrong way.
They typically do what everyone else is doing and then wonder why itβs not working.
Oftentimes, they donβt even know if itβs working or not because they have no easy way of seeing the results. For exampleβ¦.
The OLD traditional methods of getting new patients are to spend a ton of money on:
New website design or redesignβ¦.again.
SEO, PPC, Google Ads, directories, social media ads and charity events and so on
...and maybe you'll get new patients.
That's what we call the "hope and pray" marketing approachβ¦.Hope itβs money well spent and pray you get new patients from it so you feel like you made a good investment.
There is a better way and here is the secret weapon....
A creative Loyalty/Rewards Club that is the most powerful way to scale for predictable revenues without advertising or discounting....
....AND while turning your existing patients into your raving fans who gladly grow your practice for you, so you no longer worry about "slow spells" and covering your overhead.
It does ALL of this while developing lasting relationships with happy patients you enjoy working with.
So here is how you use a loyalty/rewards system to 10X your revenues.
You encourage your patients to return more often, refer their friends to you, give you great reviews that thousands of other prospective patients see online, consent to their B/A photos being shown to prospective patients, and share you on social media with their OWN followers β all leading to new patients for you organically, without you spending an extra dime.
So, the new way is simple.
You pull your entire list of existing patients, and it doesn't matter how long it's been since they've been in to see you. Many will return after being gone for many, many years.
Now you make a marketing plan to consistently stay in front of these patients, so you are top of mind and when they are ready, they choose you.
Then you reward them for their loyalty and for helping you grow your practice and reputation online.
For example, you make it fun for your patients to grow your practice for you by rewarding them when they return more often, refer their friends/family, write a review, approve their B/A photos, share you on social media, shoot a video testimonial, and/or complete a SX procedure.
And when your patients collect enough rewards at different tier levels, they are rewarded with Free cosmetic services.
And that leads us to the last Shift #4: Retention is the New Patient Attraction Strategy for 2025
Because of intense competition, social media, the Internet and AI, itβs gotten and will continue to get increasingly more difficult, technical, confusing and time-consuming to attract new cosmetic patients.
So, retaining your cosmetic patients has become the most direct route to more revenues.
Not sure about that?
Consider these recent stats showing you how:
- It costs 7-12X more to attract a new patient than to retain an existing patient
- Loyal patients spend 67% more than new patients
- The average new patient conversion rate is only 5%-20% while the average existing patient conversion rate is a whopping 70%-90%
- Existing patients spend 31% more on their average order size value and this makes sense because your existing patients already know, like and trust you and are much more open to your recommendations and extra products and services you offer.
You're also not wasting a ton of time following up on bad leads.
On top of that, your conversion rate is so much better, so your valuable time is spent with patients who say yes rather than with price-shopper strangers who never book.
Lastly, 46% of patients spend more after they join a loyalty program and
83% of patients say a loyalty program will keep them coming back.
THIS is how you leverage your time with your preferred patients who are now worth 10X more to you.
And you stop wasting your time with those who nickel-and-dime you and then bolt for the next special deal from your competitors.
(Sources: SEMrush and ProfitWell)
Conclusion
So, to recap, here are the 4 game-changing shifts to win in 2025:
Shift 1 - Patient Centric vs. Money Centric
Shift 2 - Drop the Discounting
Shift 3 - The Secret Weapon
Shift 4 - Retention is the new patient Attraction secret
OK, hopefully you now see how you can make some simple shifts to 10X your revenues using the resources you already have without advertising or discounting your services, WHILE simultaneously increasing the number of patient visits, referrals, reviews and shares on social media.
If you want to learn more, please visit KISSLOYALTYCLUB.COM for details
And that wraps it up for this episode so please subscribe to Beuty so you donβt miss future episodes and you have any feedback for me, you can schedule a call with me at my website, www.CatherineMaley.com or feel free to DM me @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Until next timeβ¦
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#10xrevenues #plasticsurgeonrevenues #profitableplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where you'll learn my proven method of turning one-time patients into lifelong fans. Additionally, we'll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." I'm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, "Turning One-Time Patients Into Lifelong Fans β with Catherine Maley, MBA." Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β So let me ask you a questionβ¦.
Have you ever wondered why some patients donβt come back after their first treatment? Or why others become your best ambassadors, returning again and again while referring their friends and family? The difference comes down to how well you nurture the patient relationship.
So, in this episode, youβll discover why patient retention matters, the psychology behind loyalty, and actionable strategies to keep your patients engaged. Plus, Iβll introduce you to the KiSS Loyalty Rewards Club, a powerful tool to help you transform patient relationships and grow your practice from the inside out. So letβs get started.
Letβs start with Why Patient Retention is the Key to Growth
Plastic surgeons often spend the bulk of their marketing budget on attracting new patients. While bringing in new patients is important, focusing solely on acquisition can leave your practice vulnerable.
Hereβs why retention is so critical:
- Youβll get a Higher ROI because Retaining a patient costs far less than acquiring a new one. Studies show that attracting a new patient to your practice costs 7β12 times more than keeping an existing one, and
- Loyal Patients Spend More: On average, repeat patients spend 67% more than first-time patients because theyβre more likely to consider additional treatments and trust you with higher-ticket services, and
- Referrals Come from Loyalty: Patients who love you and your practice will naturally refer others, saving you money on advertising.
But If your practice focuses only on new patient acquisition and neglects retention, youβre constantly filling a leaky bucket. By plugging that leak, you create a steady, predictable stream of revenue.
Now letβs talk about the cosmetic Patient Lifecycle
To turn one-time patients into loyal fans, it helps to understand their decision-making journey:
- First, thereβs Awareness: The patient learns about your practice through marketing, referrals, or word of mouth.
- Then itβs the First Visit: They book their first appointment, often for a consultation or a smaller, non-surgical treatment.
- Then, thereβs the Post-Treatment or consult Phase: This is the critical moment when patients decide whether theyβll return or shop around for other options.
- And lastly, thereβs the Long-Term Relationship because with the right nurturing, patients become loyal advocates for your practice.
But hereβs The Problem: Many practices focus heavily on the first two stagesβawareness and acquisitionβbut fail to invest in the post-treatment or consult phase. This is where loyalty is built or lost.
So, the Key Question to Ask is: What happens after your patient leaves your office? Are you staying connected, or are you letting them drift away?
So, letβs back up. Why donβt Patients Return to your practice?
If patients donβt come back, itβs rarely because theyβve stopped wanting cosmetic rejuvenation. They just stopped wanting it from you β sorry.
So often you lost them for preventable issues such as:
- Indifferent Staff: Patients value how theyβre treated. A lack of warmth or attentiveness can leave a lasting negative impression.
- Inconsistent Experiences: If they have a quality patient experience one time and a completely different experience the next time, patients lose trust.
- Then, thereβs Poor Follow-Up: Patients need to feel cared for. A lack of follow-up communication can make them feel forgotten and insignificant and antoher really big reason patients donβt return to you is because .
- Thereβs No Connection: If your practice feels transactional rather than personal, patients wonβt feel a bond strong enough to return.
Here is a common real-life example: Imagine a first-time Botox patient who is thrilled with their results but doesnβt hear from your practice afterward. Over time, they forget about you and are lured away by a competitorβs ad or email. This could have been avoided with a simple follow-up email, text, or phone call checking in with the Botox patient to be sure theyβre satisfied with their result and mentioning other treatments they might also like.
Because hereβs The Psychology of cosmetic patient Loyalty β¦
Loyalty isnβt just about delivering great resultsβitβs about how you make your patients feel. Here are the emotional drivers of loyalty:
- Trust: Patients need to feel confident in your expertise and your teamβs professionalism.
- Connection: A personal relationship creates a sense of belonging.
- Recognition: Patients love to feel appreciated and rewarded for their loyalty.
Think about what it feels like to cater to a complete stranger prospective patient who found you on the Internet and is skeptical and apprehensive vs. a current patient who knows, likes and trusts you? Itβs night and day.
Wouldnβt you rather work with patients who already trust you than those who are skeptical because they have no idea who you are?
So, letβs talk about Actionable Strategies to Build Loyalty by creating an exceptional patient experience:
First, Nail the First Impression
- Greet every patient warmly. A friendly smile and genuine interest go a long way.
- Offer a small welcome gift, such as a skincare sample or your branded bottled water to make them feel special.
- Then see them on time so they see that you respect their time. This also ensures their consultation is unhurried, so schedule enough time to address their specific concerns.
And, Make Every Visit Memorable
- Your team must be consistently friendly, professional, and attentive.
- Create a comfortable environment with thoughtful touches like coffee, tea, and relaxing music.
- Thank patients for choosing your practice at the end of every visit.
Then, Stay Connected After Their Visit
- Follow-Up Calls and text: Check in with patients after their treatment to see how theyβre doing.
- Email Campaigns: Send regular updates about whatβs new in your practice and patient success stories.
-
And use Social Media posting to share educational and entertaining content to keep patients engaged between visits.
-
Now you want to Encourage Referrals and Reviews
-
Set up a referral program to reward patients who bring in friends or family.
-
Ask happy patients to leave reviews on Google and social media. By the way, you donβt want to pay patients for referrals and reviews but you do want to acknowledge and reward your patients for growing your practice organically and Iβll show you how in a minute.
-
Then be sure your staff know how to Cross-Sell Services
-
The easiest way to promote other services without being pushy is with strategic in-house signage such as Displaying before-and-after photos and educational videos throughout your practice to encourage visiting patients to ask you about it.
-
and lastly, Listen to Patient Feedback
-
Let patients know their opinion matters, by sending them a survey for their feedback and suggestions to gather insights into what your patients love and what you can improve on.
Now, letβs talk about a tool that makes patient retention easy, rewarding and ethical:
Itβs called the KiSS Loyalty Club.
Itβs a customizable program designed to keep your patients engaged with your practice by rewarding them for their loyalty.
Hereβs How it Works:
- Patients earn 1 KiSS for every $1 they spend in your practice.
- They are awarded Bonus KiSSes for:
- Referring their friends
- Giving you a Google review
- Approving the use of their before-and-after photos.
- Sharing you on their social media channels
- And completing surgery
- Patients then redeem KiSSes for free treatment tiers for Botox, fillers, or laser services.
So, Why does this Work:
- Itβs Simple: Patients understand it easily and get excited about earning rewards and staff also appreciate itβs simplicity.
- Itβs Engaging: The more patients interact with your practice, the more KiSSes they earn.
-
And It Builds Loyalty: Patients are motivated to return more often, refer, and leave reviews and itβs a differentiator since patients can only redeem KiSSes at your practice so it locks out your competitors.
-
Hereβs a Real-Life Success Story
One plastic surgeon in New Jersey implemented the KiSS Loyalty Club and saw the following results within six months:
- A 30% increase in patient retention.
- A 50% increase in referrals.
- A significant reduction in advertising costs, as loyal patients began driving new business.
Quote from the Surgeon: βOur patients love earning KiSSes! Itβs given them an extra reason to stay loyal and spread the word about our practice. Plus, itβs easy for our staff to manage, which is a big win.β
And patient Retention isnβt just about keeping patients happyβitβs about maximizing your practiceβs profitability.
Instead of discounting your services and hurting your brand, you are investing in your patientβs loyalty by offering free services after they invest in your practice. The profits margins are 8X-20X your hard costs so this is a win-win for everyone.
Here are Key Metrics to Consider:
- If your practice has 1,500 active patients and their average value is $500 and you increase repeat visits by just 15% and 5% more referrals and 10% more retention, thatβs an extra $225,000 per year and we did that without discounting or advertising.
If this makes sense to you, please visit www.kissloyaltyclub.com for all the details
To wrap this up, I want to reiterate that Loyalty is the foundation of a thriving cosmetic practice.
By turning one-time patients into lifelong fans, you not only grow your revenue but also create a community of patients who know, like, and trust you. The KiSS Loyalty Club is the perfect tool to make that happen so please head over to www.kissloyaltyclub.com and donβt forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with your colleagues. Iβll see you next time!"
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#lifelongpatients #createravingfans #profitablesurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where we'll discover if you are a one-hit wonder, and if there's a better way. Additionally, we'll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." I'm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, "Stop Discounting! β with Catherine Maley, MBA." Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Obviously, if you're relying on discounts to attract patients, you're not aloneβbut thereβs a better way.
Indeed, in this week's "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, I share why discounting is a short-term strategy that hurts your bottom line. Additionally, you'll discover how you can create a loyal patient base that returns, refers, and raves about your practice without the need for discounts.
Specifically, hereβs what youβll discover:
- First, why discounting attracts the wrong patients and devalues your services.
- Furthermore, the hidden costs of discounting that drain your resources and profits.
- Additionally, proven strategies to boost retention, maximize patient lifetime value, and grow your revenue.
Finally, Iβll introduce the KiSS Loyalty Rewards Club, a proven tool to reward and retain patients while increasing your profits.
In conclusion, stop chasing price shoppers. Start building loyalty, boosting your revenue, and creating a sustainable practice you can be proud of.
P.S. Indeed, patient retention is the key to building a sustainable, profitable practice. Additionally, by focusing on loyalty, you can stop chasing price-shoppers and start building relationships with patients who truly value your expertise.
Certainly visit KiSSLoyaltyClub.com today to see how easy it is to reward your patients, grow your revenue, and create a thriving practice in 2025.
Lastly, donβt miss our special End-of-Year Promo Rate!
Practice Growth Resources:
- Convert Consults with The Converting Academy
- Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club
- Cosmetic Practice Vault Library
- Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#nodiscountpractice #stopdiscountingsurgeries #getmorepatientreferrals
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss going from academia to independence. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFrom Academia to Independence β with Shabnam Ghazizadeh, MD.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Obviously, the journey from academia to private practice isnβt always a straight line. Instead, itβs a bold leap of faith.
Without a doubt, Dr. Ghazizadeh, a young facial plastic surgeon, took that leap. As a result, she is carving her own path in the world of private practice in one of the most saturated markets in the countryβNewport Beach, CA.
Then, after completing her rigorous training, Dr. Ghazizadeh transitioned out of academia. Then, she joined an established private practice as an associate. Correctly, she believed this was an opportunity to build her cosmetic practice with the flexibility and creativity she longed for.
However, growth takes time. Additionally, to gain more surgical experience and supplement her income while building her practice, she made another savvy move. Specifically, she began moonlighting at Kaiser Permanente. As a result, this gave her the opportunity to hone her surgical skills, see more cases, and maintain financial stabilityβall while steadily growing her own patient base.
Furthermore, this arrangement allows her to benefit from an existing infrastructure. Moreover, it helps her build her personal brand and patient following, while being a mom to two young kids. Phew!
P.S. How well are you leveraging your practice assets?
Specifically, Iβve created a quick, 7-question quiz to help you find out. To be sure, this isnβt just any quizβitβs designed specifically for plastic surgeons to measure how effectively your practice retains patients, drives referrals, and maximizes their lifetime value.
Additionally, hereβs why youβll want to take this quiz (if you havenβt already):
- Firstly, discover hidden opportunities to boost your revenue and grow referrals.
- Secondly, benchmark your retention and referral strategy against industry best practices.
- Thirdly, receive personalized insights to help you turn patient loyalty into a steady stream of new revenue.
Finally, itβll take less than 2 minutes, and your results (which I will share with you next week) could reveal key opportunities youβve been missing.
Practice Growth Resources:
- Convert Consults with The Converting Academy
- Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club
- Cosmetic Practice Vault Library
- Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Ghazizadeh's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#shabnamghazizadehmd #drghazizadeh #newportbeachfacialplasticsurgeon
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discusshow Marcelo Antunes, MD, FACS, immigrated from Brazil to a thriving Austin practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βBrazil to Thriving Austin Practice β with Marcelo Antunes, MD, FACS.β Obviously, running a successful plastic surgery practice is no small feat, but Dr. Marcelo Antunes, a facial plastic surgeon in Austin, TX, has built a thriving practice over the past six years.
Remarkably, when Dr. Antunes moved to the U.S. from Brazil at 26, he had no idea heβd one day run his own successful private practice. Notably, through the help of a professor, he secured a fellowship with a renowned facial plastic surgeon, where he learned not just advanced surgical techniques, but also the critical business strategies needed to run a practice.
Specifically, in this "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast episode, youβll discover the key lessons learned by Dr. Antunes:
- Building Relationships: Firstly, Dr. Antunes stays closely connected with his fellowship peers. Theyβve become a valuable network for advice and troubleshooting challenges.
- Strategic Growth: Secondly, he strategically narrowed his focus to facial plastics, tackling complex revision rhinoplasties to build a reputation and gain referrals from peers.
- Team Culture: Thirdly, his 8-member staff is a tight-knit, supportive team that aligns with his mission of providing outstanding patient care.
Ultimately, Dr. Antunesβ story highlights that the journey to business success requires mentorship, networking, and clear strategy.
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Antunes' website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#austinfacialplasticsurgeon #marceloantunesmd #drmarceloantunes
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss functional cash pay in Mexico. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFunctional Cash Pay in Mexico β with Dr. Gabriel Garza MartΓnez.β Obviously, all surgeons in private practice who accept functional cases often complain about the reimbursement process. Additionally, they say itβs slow and cumbersome. Moreover, Mexico is no different.
Now, this episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast features an interview with Dr. Gabriel Garza. Specifically, heβs an oculoplastic surgeon specializing in eyelid surgery, tear ducts, and orbital problems. Indeed, for 24 years, he has practiced in San Pedro, Mexico, with a very different approach.
Furthermore, Dr. Garza discussed the contrasts between the public healthcare system in Mexico and private practice. While the public system covers a significant portion of the population, it does not include specialized services like oculoplastic surgery.
At first, he relied on referrals from other doctors for functional cases. However, he soon realized these referrals were not dependable. Consequently, he shifted his focus to marketing directly to patients.
Today, Dr. Garza operates primarily on a cash-pay model, with patients handling insurance claims themselves for functional procedures.
Finally, tune in to find out how he escaped the insurance rat race and built a successful, cash-based practice for functional patients.
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule Your Practice Growth Strategy Review
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Garza's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#monterreyoculoplastics #drgabrielgarzamartinez #drgabrielgarzasanpedro
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss Reza Najafian's journey from Iran to Oregon. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βJourney From Iran to Oregon β with Reza Najafian, MD (Ep. 283).β So, have you ever wondered what it takes to leave everything behind and pursue a dream halfway around the world?
Specifically, in the latest episode of "Beauty and the Biz" I interviewed Dr. Reza Najafian. Indeed, he's a plastic and reconstructive surgeon based in Eugene, Oregon.
There, he shared his courageous story of moving from Iran to the U.S., overcoming challenges, and building a private practice from the ground up. Today, his practice offers both cosmetic and reconstructive services.
Importantly, Dr. Najafianβs story is about more than just his unique journey. Indeed, itβs also about the importance of strategically shifting from academia to private practice. Together, we covered topics such as:
- First, the power of building a loyal patient base through excellent patient care.
- Next, challenges of balancing a 60% cosmetic and 40% reconstructive patient mix.
- Finally, the importance of learning from those who already have the success you desire.
Certainly, this is packed with inspiration and practical tips!
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule a Comp Consultation with Me!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Najafian's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drrezanajafian #rezanajafianmd #eugeneoregonplasticsurgeon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss being 6 months in private practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, β6 Months in Private Practice β with Collier Pace, MD, FACS.β Obviously, developing a strong referral network not only provides a dependable source of patient referrals. Furthermore, it creates goodwill and professional camaraderie. Consequently, that makes growing a new practice much faster, easier, and more sustainable.
Today, our special guest is Dr. Collier Pace. To be sure, he's a plastic and reconstructive surgeon who started his career in a big multi-surgeon practice in Virginia several years ago. Later, he relocated to North Carolina to work in a hospital setting. Just six months ago, he opened his own solo practice.
Moreover, we talked about how important it has been for him to develop relationships with other service providers, colleagues, patients, and staff in his new community. This networking has allowed him to enjoy rapid growth for his solo practice.
Additionally, Dr. Pace quickly learned that setting up and running the business side of his practice took a whole different skill set. This includes hiring and managing staff and balancing financial growth with overhead. Therefore, we discussed those challenges and how he has maneuvered through them.
Ultimately, his practical business, people, and patient-focused approach make this a must-listen episode!
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule a Comp Consultation with Me!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Pace's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#greensboroncplasticsurgeon #collierpacemd #drcollierpace
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how to differentiate with awake surgery. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βDifferentiate with Awake Surgery β with Joubin Gabbay, MD.β Obviously, when you practice in an uber competitive area, differentiating yourself from the other competitors is not only challenging but a must to capture your fair share of cosmetic patients.
Specifically, in this weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast episode, Dr. Joubin Gabbay, a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon, reveals how offering awake surgical procedures. Furthermore, this has helped him stand out in one of the most competitive markets in the world.
Additionally, Dr. Gabbay shares his experiences with awake surgery, discussing how it not only gives patients more options but also builds trust and confidence in his expertise. Moreover, he dives into his innovative patient attraction strategies that consistently bring new patients through the door.
In summary, youβll learn:
- Firstly, how awake surgery appeals to patients seeking a less invasive option.
- Secondly, the patient experience during awake proceduresβand how Dr. Gabbay ensures their comfort.
- Thirdly, his top strategies for attracting new patients in a crowded market.
In short, listen and get a behind-the-scenes look at the innovations that make Dr. Gabbayβs practice so unique.
Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule a Comp Consultation with Me!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Visit Dr. Gabbay's website Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#joubingabbaymd #drjoubingabbay #beverlyhillsplasticsurgeon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how happy staff equal happy patients. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βHappy Staff, Happy Patients β with Adam J. Rubinstein, MD, FACS.β Obviously, it takes the right team, thoughtful management, and a clear process to run a successful cosmetic practice you enjoy.
Moreover, the key is hiring and managing staff effectively. Furthermore, you need both. Consequently, when done right, you have happy staff who take great care of your patients, which makes everyone happy. ;-)
Specifically, my latest "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast guest was Dr. Adam Rubinstein, a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Miami, FL, for the past 21 years. Importantly, Dr. Rubinstein discussed how having the right team, including full-time surgical staff, a dedicated PA, and an esthetician, allows his practice to run multiple revenue streams simultaneously. Similarly, by delegating non-surgical treatments to his staff, he ensures his surgical schedule remains optimized without sacrificing patient care.
For example, hereβs a tip about managing staff from Dr. Rubinstein:
βWhen you have a problem employee, address it fast. Otherwise, it spreads like a cancer, affecting the whole team's moraleβand that hurts patient care.β
Likewise, he emphasized the importance of creating a positive work environment and provided tips on flexibility, retention, and delegation.
Visit Dr. Rubinstein's website Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule a Comp Consultation with Me!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#adamrubinsteinmd #dradamrubinstein #miamiplasticsurgeon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how Erez Dayan, MD, went from a rented office to 7K sq. ft. facility. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βRented Office to 7K Sq. Ft. Facility β with Erez Dayan, MD.β Indeed, running a successful cosmetic practice requires more than just surgical skills. Moreover, itβs about building a sustainable business. Specifically, in the latest episode of "Beauty and The Biz," I interviewed Dr. Erez Dayan, a board-certified plastic surgeon, to uncover how he built a thriving cosmetic surgery practice from the ground up in Reno, Nevada, in a very short time.
To be sure, Dr. Dayan, a Harvard-trained surgeon, shared the behind-the-scenes business strategies that helped him transition from reconstructive to cosmetic surgery and grow his practice from a small, rented office into a 7k sq. ft. surgical facility.
In summary, hereβs what youβll discover:
- Firstly, how Dr. Dayan strategically expanded his practice while maintaining cash flow.
- Secondly, his approach to staff management that fosters loyalty and long-term growth.
- Moreover, the importance of adding diversified services like wellness and hormone therapy to meet patient demand.
- Finally, how maintaining mental resilience and work-life balance is key to long-term success
Visit Dr. Dayan's website Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule a Comp Consultation with Me!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#avanceplasticsurgery #renocosmeticsurgeon #renoplasticsurgery #erezdayanmd #drerezdayan
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss how Avron Lipschitz, MD, came to America from South Africa. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βSouth Africa to America β with Avron H. Lipschitz, MD.β Obviously, where thereβs a will, thereβs a way. To be sure, the βwill is a personβs inner drive to achieve a goal, while the βwayβ is the path to get there. Indeed, it encourages self-reliance and resourcefulness, as well as the power of determination and perseverance to reach your goals.
This weekβs "Beauty and the Biz" guest is Avron Lipschitz, MD, a board-certified plastic surgeon with an inspiring success story.
To begin with, Dr. Lipschitz always had a strong desire to live in America. Consequently, after graduating from medical school at the University of Cape Town, he secured a plastic surgery research fellowship in Dallas, Texas. This opportunity, in turn, led to further training at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Boston and, subsequently, additional specialized training in New York.
Years later, Dr. Lipschitz took the significant step of purchasing and building his own 7,000-square-foot facility, which includes an in-house surgical center, aftercare facility, and med spa in Stuart, Florida, with a satellite location in West Palm Beach, Florida.
During our conversation, we discussed several key topics, including:
- First and foremost, his biggest challengeβmanaging staff and cash flowβwhile ensuring exceptional patient care.
- Additionally, how he learned the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, which has helped him stay both up-to-date and competitive.
- Finally, the growing popularity of deep-plane facelifts and many other related trends.
Visit Dr. Lipschitz's website Practice Growth Resources: * Convert Consults with The Converting Academy * Retain Patients with KiSS Loyalty Club * Cosmetic Practice Vault Library * Schedule a Comp Consultation with Me!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#avronlipschitzmd #dravronlipschitz #athenaplasticsurgery
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz," where weβll discuss finding a space to operate. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFinding Space to Operate β with Adam Schaffner, MD, FACS.β Obviously, plastic surgeons oftentimes scramble to find a place to operate.
Furthermore, hospital schedules are filled with higher-priority cases, leaving cosmetic surgeons competing for operating room time at other hospitals or outpatient surgery centers.
As a result, their staff can spend countless hours searching for reliable and available surgery facilities, adding unnecessary stress and delays. Additionally, surgeons are then forced to work in unfamiliar settings with operating room staff they donβt know, and valuable time is lost commuting between locations.
On top of that, now the patient is inconvenienced because they have to adapt to the practiceβs logistical limitations rather than have a smooth, patient-focused experience. Certainly, this disruption can affect the surgeonβs reputation and reviews and create a strained patient-surgeon relationship.
Specifically, this weekβs "Beauty and the Biz" podcast guest solved this problem for many surgeons in the upper east side of NYC.
Dr. Adam Schafner is a board certified facial and plastic surgeon and founder of The Plastic Surgery Institute in NYC. To be sure, he's built a state-of-the-art surgical facility that operates on a rental model for 15+ independent surgeons to use.
Notably, he enjoys high demand for his center because he focuses on high standards of patient care, employee well-being, and operational efficiency.
In short: Very interestingβ¦.
Visit Dr. Schaffner's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#adamschaffnermd #dradamschaffner #surgicalrentalspace
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to βBeauty and the Biz,β where weβll discuss how to create the ultimate facial surgery practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying.β Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, helping them get more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βThe Ultimate Facial Surgery Practice β with Janice Pastorek, BSN, RN.β To be sure, some of the longest-lasting relationships Iβve seen in this industry are between the surgeon and nurse who share the same values and vision. Obviously, in this scenario, they bring their different skill sets together to create something fantastic.
Notably, Janice Pastorek, RN, and her renowned husband and facial plastic surgeon Dr. Norman Pastorek are a great example of that relationship.
Specifically, they built a successful practice in Manhattan on Park Avenue in New York City. Furthermore, their practice is not only focused on facial plastic surgery, but also on good skincare and a holistic approach to wellness. Additionally, they focus on diet and lifestyle rather than just procedures.
Previously, Janice started out as a hospital nurse, where she met Dr. Pastorek, who not only repaired her deviated septum but also brought her on board to build out his own in-house surgical suite. Astoundingly, they have been in practice together ever since β 43 years ago.
Dr. Pastorek recently semi-retired, but Janice is still going strong and providing non-surgical facial rejuvenation, along with anti-aging modalities, to a high-end clientele.
In short, this is her journey.
Visit Dr. Pastorek's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#janicepastorek #normanpastorekmd #drnormanpastorek #nycwellness #nychomeopathy
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where weβll answer the question of 'why do so many partnerships fail?' Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, β90 Percent Referral Practice β with Michael R. Schwartz, MD.β To be sure, This is the holy grail that all surgeons should aspire to. Furthermore, when your new patient leads come from your patients referring their friends and family, you no longer have to count on massive ad budgets for leads. In short, you win!
Specifically, this "Beauty and the Biz" podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Michael Schwartz. To be sure, he's a highly accomplished board-certified plastic surgeon based in Westlake Village, CA, serving the Los Angeles area for over 26 years.
Additionally, Dr. Schwartz has built a thriving practice that includes an on-site, state-of-the-art operating facility, a luxurious in-house aftercare suite, a non-surgical center called The Spa, and a dedicated team of 26 team members.
To summarize, during our conversation, Dr. Schwartz shared his journey:
- Firstly, from employee to partner in another practice (which didn't end well),
- Secondly, to launching his own successful solo practice, and
- Thirdly, growing his own practice by adding an associate of his own.
Moreover, he also revealed some of his best-kept secrets:
- Firstly, how 90% of his business comes from word-of-mouth referrals,
- Secondly, his approach to encouraging patients to approve their before-and-after photos,
- Thirdly, and strategies for keeping his team focused on delivering an exceptional patient experience.
Obviously, you wonβt want to miss these insider tips from a surgeon whoβs mastered the art of building a trusted, patient-centered practice.
Visit Dr. Schwartz's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drmichaelschwartz #michaelschwartzmd #plasticsurgerybusiness #plasticsurgerybusinesscoach
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where weβll answer the question of 'why do so many partnerships fail?' Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βWhy do so Many Partnerships Fail? β with Steve Look, CEO.β
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about the fastest path to more patients & profits. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βFastest Path to More Patients & Profits β with Catherine Maley, MBA.β Obviously, your lowest hanging fruit will always be those who know, like, and trust you already. Additionally, those who USED to know, like, and trust youβand now theyβre gone because you have been ignoring them, so your competitors nabbed them. Furthermore, those who have friends who could also know, like, and trust you.
The point is, your patient word-of-mouth referrals are everything in our industry. I don't know why practices don't focus more on that and only focus on PPC ads or directories and other expensive advertising. This is because your patients will bring you all the business you need if you set it up like that. Hereβs what I learned.
Whenever I'm consulting with a practice, I ask them to pull a report called Revenues by Referral Source. Typically, this is what happens: The majority of your referrals for your surgeries are coming from word of mouth, friends and family, patient referrals, staff referrals, physician referrals, and existing patients.
By the way, if that is not the case for you, just know you are working twice as hard when you have that βone and doneβ mentality. So, I like to focus on word-of-mouth referrals because itβs faster, cheaper, and more effective than other types of marketing.
Let's keep in mind how powerful and profitable a good cosmetic patient can be for you now and in the future. We cosmetic patients have endless needs. For example,
βWrinklesβ is the absolute number one keyword in our industry. Nobody wants them, and weβll pay a lot to get rid of themβand thatβs just the beginning. Thereβs also sagging face and neck, blotchy skin, crepe skin, crooked nose, tired-looking eyes, chin fat, big ears, thin lips, small breasts, unwanted fat pockets, and it goes on and on for decades since the aging process is relentless.
Because a cosmetic patient who cares about their appearance today will care about it tomorrow and next year, as well as when social trends kick in, such as when they are getting married or suddenly single.
Moreover, have you noticed your patients starting so much younger nowadays? Iβm sure social media has a lot to do with that. However, whatever the reason, these patients end up having multiple cosmetic procedures throughout their lifetime.
So, knowing this, do you want a patient one time or for a lifetime? Obviously, for a lifetime. The most successful practices focus on this, so they have a steady stream of patients who come back again and again and bring their friends with them. This is because they have changed their focus from βone and doneβ to βpatients for lifeβ who return and refer.
The shortest distance between you and new patients is from your patient talking to her girlfriend, mom, sister, aunt, neighbor, gym buddy, or yoga friend about YOU. That person trusts that other person, so now they trust you. That transfer of credibility is golden. The referred patient is less price-sensitive, more open to your recommendations, and more likely to convert in less time.
However, it doesnβt just happen, or it doesn't happen as often as you want it to because patients are not thinking about how to help you grow your practice. They are thinking about their own lives, kids, jobs, and other things. Even though they would be more than happy to refer you, itβs not top of mind, so you canβt take it for granted they will, and you can't assume anything. Therefore, here are some ideas to make word-of-mouth referrals happen more often.
You want to use clever ways to remind your patients you would love to get to know their family and friends.
Start with internal marketing by having your staff wear eye-catching lapel pins or T-shirts that say, βWe Love Referrals.β
Additionally, use other signage around the office that says something like, βThe greatest compliment you can give us is to refer us to your family and friends.β For instance, I was in Maine, and they had that quote splashed across the wall behind the reception desk so you couldnβt miss it. It was huge, artistic, tasteful, and a really good idea.
You could also do a simple βBuddy Botoxβ sign that says, βGot wrinkles, got a friend? Bring a friend to your next Botox appointment, and you both get an instant $50 gift card toward your treatment.β
Another easy one is when you're answering the phone, always ask how the caller heard about you because that is very good intel to know what prompted them to pick up the phone and call.
You should also ask on the patient intake form because youβre trying to figure out which of your marketing efforts is working so you can double down on them.
And then, hereβs the secretβthank them! For example, if they say, βOh, my hairstylist,β and you hear that the hairstylist referred them two times, go meet the hairstylist because he or she is a big fan.
You should make that a bigger alliance than it is now because right now itβs just an anecdotal, βOh, my hairstylist mentioned you.β In my book, I'm telling you, there was a hairstylist in San Francisco who was referring to one cosmetic dermatologist and a facial plastic surgeon. We were all in a very small areaβjust two blocks away. This guy was worth 250 referrals a year because he was also being well taken care of by the doctors. But that's a killer referral sourceβwow. Can he come here?
So, go get your hair done. When you do, you have to thank them. What we say is when on the phone or in their patient intake form, when they say, βHow did you hear about us?β and they say, βOh, Sue Smith,β then you just next to it say, βMay we thank her?β or βMay we thank them?β And they say, βYes.β Sometimes itβs privacy-related stuff.
So, if they say, βYes, you may thank them,β please do so. Just send a nice note card.
You could handwrite it or have some of it preprinted, but definitely sign itβhandwritten signature. Another doctor, Dr. Pontel, does send this letter and hand-signs it. Itβs a nice touch.
If another doctor refers them here, Dr. Pontel does send this letter and hand-signs it.
But we donβt send a form letter to patients who refer other patients. Instead, we send a thank you note cardβlike this one. Itβs beautiful.
Inside, it just says, βHello Sue, thank you so much for referring Sarah to us. We appreciate your trust and support. Weβll take great care of her and hope youβre well.β Then you just sign it or decide what you want to say.
Usually, the receptionist handwrites all this stuff, and then the doctor adds his fancy signature. This goes a long way because nobody does this anymore.
I call these βshow and tellβ cards. Give your patients their photosβhand them their photos.
Their before-and-after photos. Again, you give them a thank you note card. Usually, I just go with flowersβtulips, roses, and things like that.
And I just hand them their card with the photos in it. They donβt have to use it; they could throw it away, but they wonβt.
We women cannot keep a secret. We will show it to at least three people because now weβre holding it. And it says again something like, βThank you for your trust.β
Itβs a great idea. I donβt know why people donβt do this everywhere. Everything Iβve ever done, I love to show my sister. Hereβs the text with correct spelling, punctuation, and formatting according to US AP style, with added transition words for flow:
It's the first one. Then my girlfriends. Then, myβI show everybody everything, but I'm pretty transparent. However, if you showed, if you gave me the photos, I'd show everybody. But here's the nuance.
Thank you for your trust. Here's the doctor's signature; however, you have to include the doctor's name, address, phone, website, and then, P.S., the greatest compliment you can give us is to refer us to your family or friends. Consequently, when they open the card, the patient will say, "Oh, my God, who was your doctor?" And, oh, he's right here.
If you were really good, you'd put a QR code on there. Thus, the friend can simply scan the QR code with their phone. Now, the doctor's information is on their phone. Okay. So, that's that. I love that.
You could also consider a referral display. The issue with this is, as I saw at your office, you keep it nice and clean there. Consequently, this could start to look a little junky when you put things on the checkout counter. So, it's just a thought. However, we used to literally place it at the checkout counter because, when we have our wallet open, that's when we look over and take some cards and put them in our wallet. That was the thought process.
You can use it or not use it, but it used to work very well. Alternatively, if you don't want to clutter your counter, you could have cute little cards and simply hand them a card with their receipt for the day.
You know, just hand it to them. Yes. Okay. Another previous idea involves branded items like gum or pens. I like the pens. Moreover, whoever books a surgery gets a pen. Sign your receipt, and you can hold on to that pen. Don't worry about it; you can keep it. That's a great idea.
Make sure your website is on there because you can't fit much, but at least, if you can get your website on thereβlike Puntel and Wayne Facial Plastic Surgery dot com or whatever. Anyway, you need a URL on there. I really like to have your name and your website on there if at all possible. Now, what do you think? Is there a way around this? I love to do a referral program; it's never a bad thing. I think it always works from what I've seen. But what's a way around the prohibition on buying referrals? We couldn't say, "You refer somebody, and you get a $100 gift card," or "You get a gift," or similar. Itβs a legal issue that Bonnie, who is Docβs wife and a lawyer, explained.
Well, it's called fee-splitting, and that's why we're doing this. We're trying to get around it while keeping this legal and keeping you all out of trouble. What I do know, because I've been doing this forever, is that I call the medical boards. Hereβs what happens: If you put things in writing, like, "I will give you money if you refer a friend," you're asking for trouble. Guess what happens? The competition gets a hold of that. And then, they send you to the medical board. But you guys seem to play nicely in that area. In other places, like Vegas or Miami, they are cutthroat. Theyβll just tear you down if they can.
So, we try to do things not in writing. With the board, it was a tip-for-tap situation: If you do this, I will do this. That's what gets you in trouble.
Yes, it's like someone having a surgical procedure is the one.
So, here's another thought. Remember we had the goody bag gifts with surgery? Yes, with surgery. Well, we could also do something like a goody bag or a "buddy beauty basket." Both talk about buddy beauty baskets, right? And in that basket is "buddy Botox." So, we need to include two little gift cards: one for you and one for the friend taking care of you.
Yes, okay, so thatβs that.
Then, there are referral perks, and I like these a lot, such as a two-for-one. Hey, Dr. Wayne, do you do any peels? No? You would want to. Okay, it's just a thought because I like peelsβthey're quick and clinical. You get a nice shaping result from it, and it's a way for them to meet you. But I wouldn't do this unless you're trying to transition them from a peel to Botox to a facelift or rhinoplasty. You know, it's kind of a jump. So, it all starts somewhere.
Just keep this in your back pocket in case you ever get an aesthetician in there. You know, this will be a good one for them to get people through there.
Okay, you could also do a refer-a-friend monthly promotion. While you canβt give money, you could always offer a product if you have any.
Alright, then you could also use a quick gift, especially as the holidays approach. Iβve used this many times with my own. For example, my sister loves Botox but won't pay for it because she's so cheap. Therefore, I give it to her as a gift. I think many people are like that. For instance, it's Christmas time, and people might be busy wondering, "What am I going to give my friends or family?" If they're generous, they might give a gift of beauty, such as a gift certificate.
Thereβs also the option to have a friendly staff referral contest. You could simply have these little cards made up, and, given that you have a very small staff, Marie, you could probably win this. You would just pass out as many cards as you can. Then, whoever gets the most referrals receives a really good grand prize, which could be a shopping spree, a flat-screen monitor, a computer, or something similar. It's a thought.
Okay, yes. Hereβs what I would suggest doing.
When it's a slow month, like usually Septemberβwhen kids are going back to schoolβI would say, βOkay, team, we're focusing on referrals this month.β Thatβs when you would pull out these slides and think of what things can we do this month to focus. You know, how they always have themes for retailβit doesnβt matter.
Anyway, that's an idea. You could also have a staff special event where family and friends are invited. However, you have a small staff, so you'd need to get as many people as your neighbors, gym buddies, and everyone.
Yeah. It brings us to our next topic. Once you're done with this, you want to run something by me. So, all right. Family and friendsβhereβs how you play this game. That night, they either sign up or have things done for a special fee. However, only because theyβre going to approve their before-and-after photos, theyβre going to give you a good review, and theyβre going to give you a referral. So itβs definitely a win-win. If we do this party, this is what we would like from you in return. You could also hire staff with a following, such as those with a blog, a huge Instagram following, or their own clients.
Letβs see. Weβll say that when weβre ready for another staff member, they have to be an advertiser for us. Iβll tell you, there are some people who donβt have an Instagram followingβthey must be rich, right?
No, theyβre strategic. They live off rhinoplasty and need that rhinoplasty influencer to get a nose job and tell her 200,000 followers. So, they take that pretty seriously. Thatβs a little strong, but any local influencerβanybody. And thatβs why we bond a lot. Weβre trying to figure out, are these staff or even patients connected to the community? Can we make something of that?
You could also have a patient appreciation event where youβre just saying thanks a lot. However, I would also have little props for Instagram. For example, I would have them take little photos, but donβt do mustaches because you want them to show their faces. I like the frame idea better. So, just make it a really fun party, but you have to bring friends.
Okay. And then thereβs thisβthis is a little advanced, but it has worked beautifully, especially in an area like yours. Itβs a patient advisory board. So, when Dr. Wayne is a little early to do this, hereβs the concept: You have an advisory board. You handpick 10 womenβwomen who have spent a lot of money in your practice, who are committed or connected to the community, who absolutely love you. These women would love to sing your praises but donβt know what to do.
So, hereβs what we do: We invite 10 to be your advisory board. Letβs say five to ten. You have a gorgeous dinner for them at a very nice restaurant in a quiet back room. Then, the doctor says, βYouβre my new advisory board. I would like us to meet once or twice a year. I want to hear from you. Itβs all about how you can do me a favor. Give me your feedback. What do you want? What donβt you want? What else can we do to help you and your friends look good and feel great?β Serve a little wine at this event so everyone relaxes, and then let the women brainstorm. Women will flow like crazy when given food and wine and are relaxed.
They might say, βActually, my sister is a publisher. I bet I could get an article for you.β Or they might say, βOh, well, if you need that, I have a friend in the TV world. Or I can get you in front of my womenβs club.β You just donβt know whatβs going to come up. So, that is a thought.
Okay, do you like that idea? Awesome. Itβs advanced and more strategic, but itβs aspirational. Right? Women love to help, especially when a doctor asks us for our opinion. We love to help. We have opinions, you know. We love to help you.
Alright, referrals from external word-of-mouth strategies. This is where we need to network. Dr. Wayne, youβve been hitting that hard, so thatβs fantastic. What youβre doing is exactly how you do itβyou feed on the streets.
However, you could also have a brainstorming session with all of you. Who are your friends and family? Where do you go for servicesβhair salons, health clubs, retail shops, media outlets, momβs groups, Chamber of Commerce, hobby groups? Do you know thereβs a hobby for everything? There are groups for things like scrapbooking that used to be popular. There are groups for everything. Youβre pondering. Whatβs that? Youβre pondering.
Oh, really? Thatβs fun. Okay.
Fundraising organizations, cosmetic dentists, gyms, womenβs centers, pain centersβjust brainstorm. I love brainstorming. If you could all get together and really think in your day-to-day operationsβwhere do you go? Where do you eat? Who does your nails? Who does your hair? Who does your massage? Just think about that.
Then, how could you work with them? As we said last time, you could literally just give them pens to hand out or give them some tchotchkes and have them pass them out. But theyβre going to be asking themselves, βHey, whatβs in it for me?β Just know that whenever youβre asking somebody for a favor, we all think, βWhat do I get out of this?β I see what you get out of it, but what do I get out of it? Always answer that question.
Here are a couple of thoughts: You could provide them with food, have a network lunch for the neighbors. Remember you were going to have those people overβthe husband and wife who own that spaβand you were going to have them over. Did you do that? Did Doc go there? Oh, they were there.
Okay. So the next idea would be to invite them to your place and have some snacks and a meet-and-greet kind of thing. Or, I have done thisβthough itβs not my top priority. A lot of you arenβt in a big strip mall, but a small one. Do you have alliances nearby that you would want to know their clients? Sure. I did this once in a medical building, where there were a whole suite of medical offices, and we had a lunch. We probably had about a hundred staff show up. The issue was that it was too much of a free lunch. Thatβs all it wasβjust a free lunch. But I gave everyone a goody bag with all of our materials in it.
It was really strategic, but I think we only got a couple of feeders out of itβjust a couple. I think the staff themselves wanted to come back and get something done, but they were supposed to tell their clients or patients about it. Itβs expensive. Itβs not expensiveβitβs a hassle because you have to have people in your place, like having company over during lunchtime. Itβs not the easiest thing, but it could work very, very well.
You might get one or two good alliances out of it, and thatβs good enough. Then, you always want to have networking cards. What I do is, you know how youβll have a business card? I like to have all your services listed on the card. If youβre networking, I like to include, β$100 towards your first visit hereβ or β10% off.β I donβt like to say that upfrontβkeep that one up. I really like this. I am asked for my own business cards, but Iβm going to ask if I can have something like this for my own business cards because I go out with the girls a lot or am out and about, you know. Iβll get talking to anyone and hand them out. Like the girls and I can go out after work and justβyeah, I like this.
I like to put the services on the back of the card so everyone is clear about what you offer. A lot of consumers donβt know what a facial plastic surgeon is, so I would be really specific. I also like to have some kind of βGet to Know Usβ gift card, such as a $75 gift card to get to know us. Okay, I should have this myself. Iβm constantly asked by consumers, βWhoβs the best? Who should I go to? What do you think?β
Itβs such a conversation we all have nowadays. Weβre always looking, so itβs just an easier conversation in todayβs world. I would have business cards to make that conversation go somewhere. If they like you and are willing to, like that hairstylist, we put up a pop-up banner with the two doctors on it. He kept it right at his hair station. We were like, βThis is amazing.β So, if you can get one of those, take advantage of it.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You could also, when they say, "What's in it for me?" and I used to do this a lot in San Francisco, we would buy their gift cards for facials, like pre-facelift facials. And they love that because they were like, "Oh, this is fantastic! You buy my gift cards. The new woman comes in for her skincare, and now the surgeon does his facelift, and she keeps their skin prepped and in good shape afterward."
This only works if you do not offer skincare services because you can't keep them. Okay. Then, you can have a cross-promotional event. Those are like weddings. Like, oh my God, I would do a cosmetic dentist, a plastic surgeon, a Pilates person, and a health club. We had four service providers and a huge, high-end health club. You get a million people there, but it was a lot of work. So, I'm just saying, start with the easy stuff first, get some traction, and see what you like before moving on to the bigger stuff because it's a lot.
Something simple, if they would just do a cross-promotional email, I like to do these a lot more because we would put together an email that was for both. For example, this one was for European skincare, and then together, they gave you these results. We would just send an email to both patient lists. That way, we get somebody else's email list, and they get on our list too. That's a good idea. That is a fabulous idea. We're asking the rep, "Yeah."
I like other emails. I like to ask the reps to go steal them from other places. Because now it's a win-win, since you're sending it to your list, they're sending it to their list, and it's a top one with a salon, like a major salon. Yes, do it with those dermatologists. Yeah.
And the dermatologists, they must have the longest email lists. True. Whoβs that? The dermatologists that Dr. Pantella and I visited.
Oh, for sure. For sure. And if theyβso all you have to do is, we have to give up our email list too, though.
No, you're not giving it up. You're just sending an email to your list, and they're sending it to their list. You're sending the same email, but you keep your emails. You just send them to your own list, but you're both in the email. And then whoever comes through the door and lets them, but their name and email, thatβs how to get it. But no, I would like to get another email list so we can email our stuff.
Well, sure. But at the moment, this is the easiest way to work with somebody else without saying, "By the way, I'm going to need your patient list." They're not going to give it to you, you know. Yeah. Inside the box.
Well, when I used to do events, I would go to a really high-end retail shop, and Iβm so surprised. I would show them the doctor's book. I would show them before-and-after photos and photos of his office. Iβd say, "This is Dr. Smith, and hereβs my idea because I'm his marketing director. Iβd like to do an event here with you. This is what we'll do: I'll do all the work. We'll pay for it. We'll pay for the wine and food. All I need from you is your patient list so I can invite them."
Then, we'll have your list and our list. So, that night, you'll have a sale. You'll have 20% off anything in the shop. And then, the doctor gives a presentation. I would hand out complimentary consultation cards. Yeah. You know, for the doctor. So, it was a win-win for everybody. And they used to give me their list because they were like, "Sure, we donβt email them. You might as well."
That was then, but in todayβs world, most people are like, βYou know, hoarding their list.β So, you say, βNo problem. Iβll go ahead and design the email, but then Iβd like you to send it to your list and send it to my list.β
Okay. Okay. All right.
So, thatβs the whole point: we have to nurture alliances. Itβs a win-win. And then the last thing is, if there's any community involvement, if you happen to love things in the community, if there's a fundraiserβI used to go to all the fundraisers around here and all the salons and the medspas. It was really good networking, but you have to like to do that. You know, my evenings were spent working a lot about them. Yeah.
Yeah. And that is that. So, what do you think? Awesome. Awesome.
I got a couple of great ideas. And then next week, when Dr. Pontel's here, we want to talk to you aboutβwe already told you about the Botox special we're doing. So, weβre trying to get that out to as many people as possible in different ways: email and text.
And then, we want to talk to you about an event. Once we put our brainstorm with our ideas, once we collaborate and figure out what weβre going to do, weβll run it by you and see if you want to add anything, take anything away, or give us any different ideas that could get us the result weβre looking for. That would be awesome.
Katherine, can I run by you a real quick kind of basic question? So, the old therapy rep came to do some old therapy training for me. She was like, βYou know, it would be really great. We should do an old therapy event.β And even if we get 10 people here, and half of them book, thatβll be like a very productive afternoon or morning or whatever.
Then, Marie was like, βWell, yeah, and we can maybe get an injectable rep to come too, and then people can see different things.β And she was like, βNo, I really, really want it to be like an old therapy-only thing.β Yeah.
Whatβs your opinion of having an event with multiple different reps or just focusing on one type of thing? Real quick. And then I was like, βWell, what about this idea? What if we spent a day and said, like, breakfast time, you know, not like 8 to 9 oβclock, but 8 to 10 oβclock? Weβll have one person come, and then at lunchtime, somebody else can bring lunch. Like, 8 to 10, all therapy; 10 injectables from Allergan; and then a 5 oβclock evening, like another rep. Like, have it all be on one day.β
Mm-hmm. Okay. Iβll just get.
I'll just tell you from my shared experience.
People are not hanging around all day waiting to go to your office. It's very difficult to get butts in seats. Mm-hmm. You have to bribe the heck out of them to show up. You will, and the other rep does not want anyone else there.
She wants to talk aboutβrightβsheβs out for herself. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh yeah. We need to focus on our therapy, but she will pay for that. So, what we used to do here, I used to organize these huge eventsβhundreds of people at hotels. It was ridiculous. But that was when this was all new and fun. However, I always did it from, letβs say, 4 to 7 p.m.
So, you could come after work. But then, that means you have to have heavier hors d'oeuvres because everyone's hungry.
Thus, we were bribing them with hors d'oeuvres, wine, and raffles on the hour. Additionally, I had a doorman who was like, βNobody gets in without knowing their name, email, and cell phone.β For me, this was a sales event, and we had a program. We would say for three hours only: This is our normal price; this is our tonight-only price; and this is what you save.
Consequently, I had people and the staff would be wearing special hats. They used iPads back thenβwhat were they? I guess they did use iPadsβbut we were booking, getting credit cards, and paying for the services that night.
We would bring in a hundred grand because it was a big deal, but they had VIP parking and it was way overboard.
I will tell you, like anything else, 80% of those people were there for the food. The remaining 20% were actually there for a good deal. But we got to keep them for the rest of the year. You know what the doctor would say? This is how a surgeon thinks. You guys are so funny. Heβd say, βYeah, but now we like, we just sold everything and now no one was supposed to do.β
I said, βWhat do you mean? You just soldββ He said, βWell, we already got the money. Now what are we going to do for the rest of the year?β I said, βYouβre going to take care of them for the rest of the year.β But he said, βWell, how else are we going to size it?β
Youβre going to fulfill what we said. Youβre going to develop a relationship and youβre going to get their friends to come in. And I thought, βHoly cow, youβre not happy with your hundred grand? Are you kidding me?β Yeah.
So, again, I wouldnβt start with an event because salespeople will bombard you with that. You will get distracted by it, and Iβm not sure itβs the best use of your time when youβre trying to grow this, you know. Unless you can somehow dovetail off with someone elseβs event. For example, if some vendor said, βYou know what, I want to have an event and thereβs a cosmetic dentist or cosmetic person willing to do it,β and heβs willing to do it with you, then the two of you show up.
But youβre not inventing; youβre not doing anything. Youβre just showing up with your doctor, and maybe you have a booth or youβor Katherine, when you talk about itβbut donβt do all the work. Itβs a lot of work. Itβs a lot of work. Yeah. Youβre just going to start there. Yeah.
Iβm glad we got your opinion because I was like, βItβs saying no, no event. Maybe wait.β Maybe wait until after the new year, after where Dr. Wayneβs established like a pipeline, and have it when nothing else is going on. I did one once, and it was the presidential debate night.
Are you kidding me? Like, how would I have known that? Yeah. So, you have to really plan. My best nights were always Thursday nights because women loved a party on a Thursday night. The theme was always βGirlsβ Night Out.β We had the husbands with the kids come on over. Letβs have some wine and shop.
All the vendors were there. It was an all-out thing, but it took that together, you know? Yeah. Okay. What are your thoughts about those wedding expos and stuff? What are your thoughts about them?
Not good. Not good. Not good. Unless you have nothing else to do. Itβs too far away. Itβs not a, βHereβs a bride; she needs this; and here I am.β Itβs not direct. Theyβre all over the place. Theyβre looking at everything. Itβs so overwhelming.
I have never known one to be worth the time and the money you put into it. Itβs just too far apart from it. Itβs too much distraction. I needβthey need to be focused on you, you know, and what you offer. I think itβs very helpful for you to know what things we shouldnβt waste our time on.
Yeah. So, you donβt think an event then?
No, not right now.
There are so many other things you could be doingβso many easier things you could be doing, you know? Yeah.
Rosemont, just do a solid email, you know, like a good, solid email with that Botox thing. They should be designing that, you know? Yeah, they are. They are. They are. Theyβre planning it this week.
Lasted today or tomorrow. Yeah. Do that kind of stuff. Thatβs a no-brainer. Youβre not involved. You just handle the phone calls. Itβs easier.
All right. I got to fly. Weβre good. All right. Have a great night. Okay. If you go with thatβyeah. If you go tomorrow, have fun.
Have fun. Right. I probably wonβt, but if I do, Iβm going to have to get some Instagram pictures because it looks like I have no life.
All I do is, you know, I only work. But I need some new photos, so I might go because we have these beautiful redwood trees here that are like 200 years old or something. I mean, seriously, I need to see my own place now.
But you guys have a great, great Labor Day weekend. Thank you for your input. Thank you. Bye.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
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π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
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β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#moresurgicalpatients #howtogetpatients #fastpathtopatients #patientleads
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where weβll talk about Brandyn Dunn, MD's 'Aloha' vibe practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Furthermore, Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βAloha Vibe Practice β with Brandyn Dunn, MD.β Specifically, my latest "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast special guest was Dr. Brandyn Dunn. Indeed, he's a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon. Additionally, he's been in private practice in Newport beach, for the past two years.
Interestingly, Dr. Dunn was born in Southern CA and raised in Hawaii. Furthermore, he brought his 'Aloha vibe' to his new solo practice. Currently, he's building it through relationships, and in similar fashion, through a lot of educational content on his Instagram channel.
In summary, discover how a new surgeon enters and competes. Specifically, in an uber competitive marketplace. Additionally, learn about the pearls heβs gained so far.
To illustrate a point, I also asked him, 'Where do you go on vacation when you've already lived in Hawaii?β ;-)
Visit Dr. Dunn's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#brandyndunnmd #drbrandyndunn
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where weβll talk about the pros and cons of being a hospital employee. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βPros and Cons of Hospital Employee β with Diana M. Flis, MD.β Usually, on the "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast, we talk about the journey from transitioning from academia to private practice.
To be sure, these surgeons want the autonomy and freedom to practice with their vision and personal philosophies. Moreover, they're free from the layers of bureaucracy that make up large hospital systems.
Furthermore, they want to make decisions without the constraints of hospital policies so they can create a practice culture and patient experience that reflects their own values and tastes.
However, some surgeons see the advantage that come with the structure and support of a large hospital environmentβ¦.
Specifically, my latest guest was Dr. Diana Flis. Indeed, she's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon employed at the Henry Ford Medical Center in Jackson, Michigan, for the past 6 years.
Chiefly, we talked about how she went from training in Michigan to doing a 6-month fellowship under Dr. Ben Talei, a well-known facial plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills, CA. Thereafter, she went back to Michigan to practice for a large healthcare provider in the Southwest Detroit region. Additionally, Dr. Flis discusses the pros and cons of that choice.
In summary, Dr. Flis laid out several advantages of working for a big operation, as well as the drawbacks.
Visit Dr. Flis' website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#dianaflismd #drdianaflis #bentaleimd #drbentalei #jacksonmiplasticsurgeon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about how George Sanders, MD, has had the same staff for 38 years. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βSame Staff for 38 Years β with George Sanders, MD.β Have you struggled with staff retention and motivation? If so, youβre not alone.
Obvously, staffing has become one of the biggest challenges for a solo practice and thatβs for all kinds of reasons, but it doesnβt have to be.
Discover HOW to keep a cohesive, dedicated team for multiple years and even decades and how to create a positive and empowering work environment staff love.
Specifically, this latest episode of the "Beauty and the Biz" podcast, is an interview with George Sanders, MD. Amazingly, he's a Board Certified Plastic Surgeon practicing in southern CA for the past 39 years.
Notably, we dive into his extraordinary success story of how he not only built a thriving practice, but also managed to retain his staff for an astonishing 13 to 38 years!
Chiefly, hereβs what we talked about:
- Firstly, the secrets behind his unique approach that keeps his team engaged, inspired, and committed for decades.
- Secondly, the key strategies he employs to create a positive and empowering work environment, fostering a sense of belonging and purpose among his staff.
- Thirdly, his proven methods for building a strong, unified team that delivers exceptional patient care.
Visit Dr. Sanders' website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#plasticsurgeonlongtermstaff #georgesandersmd #drgeorgesanders
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about marketing mistakes to avoid. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMarketing Mistakes to Avoid β with Catherine Maley, MBA.β Is your practice struggling to attract new patients despite your best efforts? If so, you might be making some common marketing mistakes that are costing you patients and profits.
To be sure, this should help...
Specifically, I recently gave a talk at the 2024 Summer Meeting for The California Society of Facial Plastic Surgery and Rhinoplasty Specialists at the Hyatt Regency Newport Beach. Additionally, itβs a gorgeous property and I encourage you to visit.
In summary, my talk was entitled, βMarketing Mistakes to Avoidβ where I lay out 5 of the most common mistakes made when marketing your practice and how to avoid them.
Obviously, marking has gotten too expensive, technical and complicated to be guessing. Furthermore, youβll lose too much time, money, effort and results say these strategies will help.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#marketingpitfalls #marketingmistakes #avoidmarketingmistakes #avoidmarketingpitfalls
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about how Jose Barrera, MD, went from being an Air Force Master Surgeon, to going into private practice. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βAir Force to Private Practice β with Jose E. Barrera, MD.β Obviously, transitioning from a military surgeon in the U.S. Air Force to private practice involves a major shift in responsibilities, environment, and mindset.
Without a doubt, in the military, you enjoy a structured setting, lots of resources, and a clear chain of command with support systems.
Conversely, in private practice, you are suddenly challenged with running a business, attracting patients and managing staff.
Specifically, this weekβs "Beauty and the Biz" podcast special guest is Dr. jose Barrera. To be sure, he's facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in San Antonio, TX.
Chiefly, we talked about his journey from a decorated military surgeon with 30 years of service in the United States Air Force to moving to the private sector. Notably, he's now in private practice managing 5 separate profit centers.
However, thatβs a major shift that included many highs and lows. Additionally, there was a mistake that cost him $275K at a time when he didnβt have it. Thankfully, he did figure it out. Good for him.
Visit Dr. Barrera's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#mastercosmeticsurgeon #josebarreramd #drjosebarrera #airforcecosmeticsurgeon #militarycosmeticsurgeon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about if a satellite office is worth it. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βIs Satellite Office Worth it? β with Sarah Saxon, MD.β Obviously, opening a satellite office 60 minutes to several hours away from your primary practice sounds thrilling, doesn't it?
To be sure, you picture this new endeavor full of opportunities. Furthermore, this satellite office will be the surgical feeder that changes everything.
Additionally, you imagine a steady stream of surgical patients willing to travel to your primary office for their procedures. In short, your surgical schedule is now full and you are booked out and happy.
However, does it really play out this way? Maybeβ¦
Specifically, this week on Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interview Dr. Sarah Saxon, an up-and-coming facial plastic surgeon with private practices in Austin and Dallas, TX. To be sure, she offers both surgical and non-surgical procedures.
Chifly, Dr. Saxon shares her journey, from working at a Dallas hospital to building her reputation in facial feminization.
Notably, while her referring network in Dallas significantly boosted demand for her specialized facial procedures, challenges like a non-compete clause prompted her to expand strategically to new areas while maintaining her existing practice.
In summary, we discussed the pros and cons of managing two practices three hours apart. Surpisingly, Dr. Saxon's team travels to Dallas once a month, enjoying the change of pace and breaking up the routine of daily practice.
However, she cautions about the potential demand, the fees you can charge, and the distractions, management difficulties, financial considerations, and labor costs involved.
Visit Dr. Saxon's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#addinganothercosmeticpractice #sarahsaxonmd #drsarahsaxon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about how live surgery can = 100k views. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βLive Surgery = 100K Views β with Scott Boden, MD.β Obviously, there are so many different marketing channels you could use to attract new cosmetic patients but it can be mind boggling.
Furthermore, you only have so much time, money and mental capacity to keep up.
So, what do you do to keep a steady stream of patients coming to you?
Specifically, this Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode was an interview with Dr. Scott Boden who is a full-time hair transplant surgeon in private practice in Hartford CT. Notably, he's performed more than 5K hair transplant surgeries to date.
Additionally, we talked about his journey to private practice, how he has been living off of word-of-mouth referrals vs. expensive google ads, and his growing demographic of transgender patients to broaden his audience.
Moreover, Dr. Boden doesnβt do much social media; however, he did get 100,000 views when he posted a live surgery (think quality vs. quantity).
To be sure, Dr. Boden is drinking his own Kool-Aid. Another key point is that he's also been a patient and the best advertisement and walking/talking testimonial for his prospective patients who can see what a natural result looks like.
Visit Dr. Boden's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#livesurgerybenefits #livesurgerysocialviews #scottbodenmd #drscottboden
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll talk about Boris Ackerman, MD having 30 competitors, 30 years ago to now having 300. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, β30 to 300 Competitors β with Boris M. Ackerman, MD.β Obviously, the popularity for cosmetic surgery continues to grow with no end in sight and thatβs good news for plastic surgeons.
Because of that demand, it allows surgeons to make a very nice living compared to other medical specialties and that leads to higher status, respect and recognition which is good for the ego ;-)
However, on the other hand, this high demand comes with intense competition among plastic surgeons, high costs of running and marketing a cosmetic practice, high expectations of cosmetic patients and legal risks if theyβre not happy.
Specifically, this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Boris Ackerman β a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Newport Beach, CA for more than 30 years.
By the way, when he arrived in Newport Beach 30 years ago, there were only 30 competitors and that has grown to 300 since then!
Specifically, we talked about:
- Firstly, choosing a practice location for family and lifestyle reasons
- Secondly, how to compete when you are in an uber competitive area
- Thirdly, financial and regulatory challenges of maintaining an in-office surgical suite
- Fourthly, his shift to focus on facial rejuvenation surgery and moreβ¦
Visit Dr. Ackerman's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. You may be feeling the Summer Slump, especially if you are in a competitive area, so my Free Summer Slump Guide will help. If you havenβt already, grab your copy today!
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticecompetitors #borisackermanmd #drborisackerman
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where weβll explore hiring, training and paying a great coordinator. Additionally, weβll discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βHiring, Training and Paying a Great Coordinator β with Catherine Maley, MBA.β Obviously, a great patient coordinator is an indispensable asset to your practice. Furthermore, the right one enhances the patient experience, increases conversion rates, optimizes the surgeonβs time, drives practice growth, and builds long-term patient relationships.
Additionally, in this highly competitive field of plastic surgery, the difference between a thriving practice and one that struggles, often comes down to the effectiveness of the patient coordinator and their skill in representing you as the best choice, because they can significantly influence a patientβs decision to move forward with surgery.
In short, itβs vital you invest in hiring, training, and adequately compensating a patient coordinator so they keep your surgical schedule filled.
Also, if you need help training and managing your coordinator to take it to the next level, letβs talk. To be sure, I have been training coordinators for decades and will turn your coordinator into a revenue-producing rock star using my proprietary Converting Academy.
Indeed, your coordinator will receive the strategies, scripts, structures, and tools to convert consultations confidently. Furthermore, they also are held accountable for their results and actions and they get 1-on-1 coaching with me personally to ensure they represent your practice with excellence.
The details are at: www.convertingacademy.com
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpatientconversiontraining #patientcoordinatortraining #theconvertingacademy
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about going from having a med spa to a 50K square ft mansion. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMed Spa to 50K Square Ft Mansion β with Hani Sinno, MD, CM, MEng, FRCSC, FACS.β Imagine dedicating 15 years of your life to becoming a top-tier plastic surgeon, only to work for the Canadian public healthcare system to experience grueling hours, driving 1.5 hours to serve four different hospitals from 7 AM to 10 PM, including weekends.
Of course, that leads to burn out, disillusionment and an unhappy family life and stirs up the desire for change.
Specifically, this is Dr. Hani Sinnoβs story. Indeed, heβs a board-certified plastic surgeon, with a residency at McGill University and further studies at Harvard. Later, he then returned to Montreal to train new surgeons at McGill University.
Notably, his breakthrough came when a colleague with a thriving medispa in Quebec called Victoria Park, offered Dr. Sinno the chance to help expand by opening a second location.
Furthermore, this wasn't just any locationβit was a 50,000 square foot, 4-story mansion in downtown Montreal. Additionally, under his expertise, this new venture flourished, eventually expanding into 22 locations.
To be sure, we talked about his shift from the Canada public healthcare system to private practice and he shared his innovative approach to learning the marketing and business side of aesthetics.
In short, his dedication to learning not only drove massive growth but also earned him a partnership in the business.
In summary, listen to Dr. Sinnoβs story about the crooked path he took from the Middle East to Canada, then the US and back to Canada and how he has set himself up with a practice, life and kids he loves to spend time with.
Visit Dr. Sinno's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticemansion #medspa #drhanisinno #hanisinnomd
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to differentiate from your competitors. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βDifferentiate From Your Competitors β with Catherine Maley, MBA.β Obviously, as the competition continues to heat up with no end in sight, itβs more important than ever to differentiate yourself to avoid commoditization.
Certainly, YOU know you are different/better than other providers, but consumers do NOTβ¦unless you show and tell them.
Specically, the latest Beauty and the Biz podcast episode, "Differentiate from Your Competitors," is a must-watch for actionable strategies that have you standing out over everyone else.
To be sure, in this episode, you'll discover how to:
- Firstly, address common patient objections and enhance the patient experience.
- Secondly, implement unique services that set you apart from others.
- Thirdly, build strong patient relationships that drive loyalty and growth.
In short, don't miss these insights that help you attract more patients and beat the competition.
P.S. If you enjoyed the audiocast from my "Differentiate or Die" video, there are 23 more mind-bending, growth-building practice management videos available for instant viewing in the Cosmetic Practice Vault.
These trainings are filled with real-world proven strategies that were implemented in hundreds of practices all over the world with good results.
ONE TIME OFFER!
Use PROMO CODE: βDifferentβ to get 80% OFF.
This is only for you because you are reading this email and the only notice you will get. Go to the link below now to discover the inside strategies to grow your cosmetic revenues.
www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com PROMO CODE: DIFFERENT
Enjoy! Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticevault #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeondifferentiators
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about the demand for non-SX vs SX increases. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
As always, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βDemand for Non-SX vs SX Increases β with Kay Durairaj, MD.β Obviously, cosmetic patients have a growing desire for less invasive options with minimal downtime and comparable results to surgical interventions. In other words, they are opting for injectables, laser therapies, and advanced technologies that donβt require surgery.
Specifically, my latest guest on Beauty and the Biz was Dr. Kay Durairaj β a facial plastic surgeon practicing in Pasadena CA for the past 20 years, who has adapted to this growing demand.
Indeed, she is USC and UCLA -trained and Chairman of the Dept of Ear, Nose and Throut Surgery at Hunginton Memorial Hospital and serves as an advisor to multiple aesthetic industry companies such as Merz, Allergan, Evolus, Prollenium and Galderma.
Furthermore, Dr. Kay saw the opportunity to diversify her practice and significantly ramped up her non-surgical efforts by catering to a much broader audience.
Additionally, by offering a diversity of procedures that can be performed by her or several members of her staff, this has freed up her time to spend on other business ventures.
To be sure, Dr. Kay is definitely thinking bigger!
Visit Dr. Durairajβs website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drkaydurairaj #drkay #kaydurairajmd #injectablessurgeon
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about the challenges of practicing in the city and suburbs. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βPracticing in the City and Suburbs β with Anna Petropoulos, MD, FRCS.β Obviously, the choice between practicing in a city or in the suburbs can significantly impact your success and profitability.
Furthermore, the city setting has more consumer demand; however, that also includes more supply of competitors so your overhead costs are also higher. Indeed, there is also a popular consumer belief you get better quality surgeons in the city.
Specifically, the suburbs are often used as a "surgery feeder" to compel these consumers to have surgery in the surgeon's city office. Or, some surgeons set up shop in the suburbs to make their commute easier, work closer to home and pay less overhead, even though the demand might be as robust as the city.
In other words, which is the best setting to give your practice the best chance for growth? Notably, the answer is always, "That depends...."
Specifically, in this episode of βBeauty and the Bizβ, I interviewed Anna Petropoulos, MD β a Harvard-trained facial plastic surgeon and master injector with over 24 years of experience practicing in Boston.
Chiefly, she talked about her unique perspective, and how she decided on both worlds, by practicing in Boston as well as the suburbs outside the city.
Notably, topics we discussed included:
- Firstly, how patient trends and marketing strategies differ by location
- Secondly, why customer service is a priority and how it pays off
- Thirdly, has investing in 18 devices paid off and a lot more...
Visit Dr. Petropoulosβ website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#citycosmeticpractice #suburbcosmeticpractice #drannapetropoulos #annapetropoulosmd
π Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine
βοΈ Restart your practice in 7 days
β¬οΈβ¬οΈβ¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to become patient-focused vs. ego-focused. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βPatient-Focused vs. Ego-Focused β with Jae Kim, MD.β Obviously, balancing patient-centered care with personal aspirations is a key challenge when building a young plastic surgery practice.
Specifically, in this episode of the βBeauty and the Biz" podcast, I interviewed Dr. Jae Kim β a facial cosmetic surgeon based in Fairfax, VA, in private practice for the past 5 years. Moreover, he shared insights into navigating this delicate balance with some awesome tips that will work well in ANY practice.
Notably, Dr. Kim discussed the evolution of his practice towards patient empowerment, emphasizing the role of authenticity. Additionally, he shared a pearl that helped him in building meaningful connections with patients.
In the same fashion, he's thinking differently and talked about the need to shed old mindsets and embrace a patient-focused approach. Also, he also created a "You Are Beautiful" brand with a unique twist on the branding.
In particular, Dr. Kim also talked about the significance of setting boundaries and embracing a specific mindset in his practice. In the same way, he discussed his take on plastic surgery marketing, and included a big tip that helped him in reaching and engaging with new cosmetic patients.
Visit Dr. Kim's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
β¬οΈ FREE BOOK:
π Get my 5-Star Rated Book, "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying," FREE! Just pay S/H
β STAY UPDATED:
π Catherine's Website π Catherine's Blog π€ "Beauty and the Biz" Podcast πΊ "Beauty and the Biz" Videocast π "Beauty and the Biz" on Apple Podcasts
π€ LET'S CONNECT:
β‘οΈ Instagram β‘οΈ Facebook β‘οΈ Twitter β‘οΈ LinkedIn
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#patientfocused #egofocused #jaekimmd #drjaekim
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about why SEO leads are declining, and how to stay ahead of the curve. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, "SEO Leads are Declining β with Catherine Maley, MBA." Obviously, Even the most skilled and experienced surgeons can struggle to attract new patients and grow their practice without leads. Because just like a human body needs blood flow to survive,
Furthermore, you need leads to keep your cosmetic practice alive. Certainly, you depend on a steady flow of cash-paying patients willing to pay a fair price for your services.
So, leads are your lifeblood. Without them, your whole operation (pun intended) comes to a screeching halt. In similar fashion, when the leads dry up, nobody notices until itβs too late and your schedule is empty.
Specifically, leads provide a consistent source of new patients, help you stay visible to prospective patients searching for your services online, allows for specialization so you can focus on an area of expertise, and helps ensure you stay up-to-date with technology and patient trends.
SEO Leads are Declining: Current Situation Currently, youβre probably paying an internet company $2-5K per month to keep your Website updated and use SEO to get you leads organically. But howβs that working for you?
Surgeons tell me daily those free leads have slowed down. If you, too, noticed a significant reduction in your organic traffic and leads recently, youβre not alone. Google just completed rolling out the largest algorithm update in the companyβs history.
However, many practices are complaining their website is being outranked by spam and/or by plagiarized low-quality AI content. This abuse is manipulating search rankings and making it challenging for google to deliver accurate results (and for your website to rank). It seems Google is unable to reliably tell the difference between human-generated and generative AI content. So marketers are having a field day exploiting AI to try and highjack good rankings. By clogging up the internet with keyword-stuffed junk, theyβre making it tougher and more expensive for Google to separate the good from the bad content.
BTW, Google derives over 75% of its revenue from ads on search engine results pages, so the fluctuations in search volume affects their ad revenues if businesses no longer see a good return on their ad budget and go elsewhere.
Since all of this affects you big time if you are attempting to attract new cosmetic patients via organic SEO, here are 5 recommendations to help you rank:
SEO Leads are Declining: Focus on high-quality UNIQUE content that AI cannot duplicate: Create informative, engaging, and trustworthy content that provides value to prospective cosmetic patients. The use of quotations, statistics, and writing in an authoritative tone, makes content more likely to be cited in responses generated by large language models like ChatGPT.
Knowing that, you can upload your consumer guides and research papers sighting big name publications, universities and/or medical organizations.
From that, you can write press releases about your guides and research papers and post them on numerous PR sites such as prnewswire.com and prlog.org. The fees range from free to a few hundred dollars.
And to really turn up the uniqueness, make a video talking about it, because your voice and visuals are way more likely to be ranked by google because they cannot be duplicated by AI.
SEO Leads are Declining: Optimize for human-generated content:
Google likes content from sources that are more likely to be human generated content such as Reddit groups, as well other forums and discussions. For example, I googled, βHave you had a Mommy Makeover?β and an entire page of Reddit Forum search results popped up.
Knowing that, you could jump into a conversation the audience is having to offer your expertise (just like you did on RealSelf) by explaining what a mommy makeover is. Keep it 100% educational NOT promotional, but do add a sentence that says:
Please feel free to email me at X or send me a direct message here on Reddit if you have any questions.
BTW, the leads will come from far away and not be the best quality, but its adding to your digital footprint online giving you credibility and every little bit helps.
SEO Leads are Declining: Be sure your internet company is monitoring algorithm updates: Adjusting your SEO strategy accordingly. For example, they should regularly be checking reputable SEO blogs and websites like Search Engine Land or Moz, for the latest news and insights. SEO Leads are Declining: Prioritize your patientsβ experience:
Focus on providing an excellent patient experience to build trust and loyalty, which lead to positive reviews and word-of-mouth referrals. And make videos interacting with your patients. For example, at a patientβs post-op appointment, do a rhino reveal and capture the patientβs reaction. Or, show the patient their before body photos and compare them to their new look.
Now ask them simple questions such as:
- What do you think?
- Are you happy with your results?
- Any advice for others considering it?
In these videos, your letting your patients tell others how awesome you are, how good they feel, and how they wish they had done it sooner. While youβre at it, ask these happy patients to give you a Google review and walk them through it on their cell phone, to make it easy for them to complete.
Lastly, remind them how much you appreciate their loyalty and support and you would appreciate them referring their friends and family.
SEO Leads are Declining: Diversify search traffic: With the rise of search engine competitors such as ChatGPT, Bing, Reddit and social media platforms, it makes sense to diversify your search traffic to reduce reliance on Google.
For example, bump up your social media efforts and post several times a week and send fun and engaging emails to your current patient list at least 2x a month.
So, If you believe you should diversify so you are not relying too heavily on organic search traffic, letβs do a 30-minute complimentary strategy call to discuss other lead generation options you might want to add to your marketing plan. Click HERE to schedule your free strategy call. Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#seoforsurgeons #seoformedicalpractices #seoforplasticsurgeons #seoforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeon #cosmeticsurgeon
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to safeguard from irrational patients. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βSafeguard from Irrational Patients β with Nabil Fanous, MD, ORL, FRCS(C) (Ep. 257).β Obviously, in cosmetic surgery practices, surgeons and their staff often encounter challenges in managing irrational patients. Furthermore, this can impact both the quality of patient care and the well-being of everyone in the practice.
Specifically, in this episode of "Beauty and the Biz", I interviewed Dr. Nabil Fanous β a cosmetic surgeon and founder of the Canadian Institute of Cosmetic Surgery in Montreal, Canada. Moreover, he gave a lot of pearls on how to safeguard you and your practice from irrational patients.
Notably, my latest βBeauty and the Bizβ guest went through that journey herself.
Specifically, Dr. Allison Pontius, a facial plastic surgeon, made a huge shift in her career 15 years ago when she changed her focus to 100% nonsurgical procedures. To be sure, this including regenerative aesthetics, hair treatments and skincare.
Then, she made another big shift a couple of years ago when she moved from a big group practice in NY to working independently in a boutique practice in California.
Additionally, Dr. Pontius explains the mental shifts it took for her to do life on her own terms and if it was worth it.
Visit Dr. Fanous' website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. If you need help differentiating yourself, schedule a complimentary 30-minute strategy call with me.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#badpatients #irrationalpatients #badcosmeticpatients #nabilfanousmd #drnabilfanous #theuniversalrulesoflife
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll answer the question of "What should I pay my coordinator?" To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, "What Patients Want from You β with Catherine Maley, MBA. Obviously, cosmetic and plastic surgery patients are a fickle group of consumers. Additionally, their wants and needs vary as much as their shapes and sizes.
Certainly, working with them can feel like a maze of ups and downs and twists and turns.
To be sure, one minute they are smiling and nodding yes to you and another, they are frowning when they hear something they donβt like.
Or worse, they are attentive throughout the consultation with you and youβre sure they are on board, only to learn they were quick to get the quote and leave, never to be heard from again.
What the heck?
Specifically, in this episode of Beauty and the Biz, I talk about the emotional and logical journey of the cosmetic patientβs decision-making process and how they choose a surgeon, given a plethora of choice.
Furthermore, youβll learn the nuances to connecting with the cosmetic and plastic surgery patient, so they see you as the best choice over all others. Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. Get a FREE copy of my book βYour Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients are Sayingβ. Itβs a quick read and will help you understand cosmetic patients better, so you do the right things to encourage them to choose you over your competitors. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2024 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#whatcosmeticpatientswant #whatplasticsurgerypatientswant #cosmeticsurgerypatients #plasticsurgerypatients
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about making major career shifts. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMaking Major Career Shifts β with Allison Pontius, MD (Ep. 255).β Obviously, making a major career shift requires mental toughness. Itβs a test of psychological resilience.
Certainly, it involves assessing your current situation, your values, passions, and skills and asking yourself, βWhat do I really want out of life and my career?β
Furthermore, it takes courage, flexibility, and acceptance of uncertainty to change course like that.
Notably, my latest βBeauty and the Bizβ guest went through that journey herself.
Specifically, Dr. Allison Pontius, a facial plastic surgeon, made a huge shift in her career 15 years ago when she changed her focus to 100% nonsurgical procedures. To be sure, this including regenerative aesthetics, hair treatments and skincare.
Then, she made another big shift a couple of years ago when she moved from a big group practice in NY to working independently in a boutique practice in California.
Additionally, Dr. Pontius explains the mental shifts it took for her to do life on her own terms and if it was worth it.
Visit Dr. Pontiusβ website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. If you are considering making your own shift and need someone to bounce ideas off of, letβs talk. I can offer you different perspectives that give you more clarity.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#nonsurgicalpractice #nonsurgicalcosmeticpractice #allisonpontiusmd #drallisonpontius
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about managing and motivating 47 staff. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general.
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βManaging and Motivating 47 Staff β with Angelo Cuzalina, MD, DDSβ. Obviously, running a successful aesthetic practice relies heavily on effective management since it greatly affects the overall success and productivity of the practice.
Moreover, you realize as a surgeon, you canβt grow on your own and you need the support of staff to keep things running smoothly by taking great care of your patients as well as each other.
Speficially, in this episode of Beauty and the Biz, I interviewed Dr. Angelo Cuzalina, MD, a cosmetic surgeon in private practice since 1998 in Tulsa, OK, who has figured out how to hire and motivate his team to help him reach his goals.
Furthermore, Dr. Cuzalina runs a very successful practice in a 16,000 square feet facility he bought and built out. Altogether, it includes a movie theater, 2 operating suites 5 surgeons work out of, and a staff of 47 who assist in surgery and run a popular med spa growing at 30% per year.
Notably, we talked about:
- Firstly, how he hires the right people for his practice and retains them, with Β½ his staff being with him more than 10 years;
- Secondly, how he keeps them motivated to bring their best, using incentives strategically, such as implementing bonus and commission structures; and
- Thirdly, how role modeling the work ethic and behavior he wants to see from his team, works to get the most out of staff, and a lot more.
Overall, youβll want to listen in if you continue to struggle with staff challenges.
Visit Dr. Cuzalina's website
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. To get even more clarity on βHow to Hire Rock Starsβ, βHow to Turn Staff Into Revenue Generatorsβ and βHold Staff Accountableβ, check out The Cosmetic Practice Vault for the answers.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticecoordinatortraining #plasticsurgerycoordinatortraining #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #plasticsurgerypracticestafftraining
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll answer the question of "What should I pay my coordinator?" To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βWhat Should I Pay My Coordinator? β with Catherine Maley, MBAβ. Obviously, for plastic surgeons, the value of a skilled patient coordinator cannot be overstated. In other words, this role is crucial in converting consultations into scheduled surgeries for not only your practice growth, but also your reputation as a sought-after surgeon.
Certainly, a really good patient coordinator bridges the gap between a prospective patientβs curiosity and their decision to move forward with a procedure.
To be sure, their ability to understand patient needs, present tailored solutions, and foster confidence is fundamental. However, they expect to get paid accordingly. Indeed, this is key to answering the question of, "What should I pay my Coordinator?"
Specifically, in this episode of the Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about what makes a good patient coordinator and the various ways to pay them, so they stay motivated to bring their A-game and close consults for you!
If you need help training the right coordinator for your practice to take it to the next level, letβs talk. I have been training coordinators for decades and will turn your coordinator into a revenue-producing rock star using my proprietary Converting Academy.
Your coordinator receives the strategies, scripts, structures and tools to convert consultations professionally. They also get one-on-one coaching with me personally to hold them accountable to ensure they represent your practice with excellence.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. The fastest and easiest way to grow your practice is to do the right things proven to work. If you could use help with that, schedule a no-obligation call with me to learn more.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticecoordinatortraining #plasticsurgerycoordinatortraining #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #plasticsurgerypracticestafftraining
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll discuss how to hire and train RNs. To be sure, we'll also discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βHow to Hire and Train RNs βwith Joseph A. Russo, MDβ. Obviously, running a successful aesthetic practice relies heavily on having a skilled and well-trained team. Undoubtedly, this also included RNs who play a crucial role in patient care and treatment delivery.
Specifically, in this episode of my Beauty and the Biz podcast, I interviewed Joseph A. Russo, MD, a renowned Boston plastic surgeon in private practice for the past 33 years. Chiefly, he shared solid insights into his approach to hiring and training RNs for his practice.
Notably, Dr. Russo emphasized the importance of hiring RNs who not only possess technical skills but also have a deep understanding of aesthetics and a commitment to patient safety and satisfaction. Indeed, Dr. Russo highlighted the need for ongoing education and mentorship to ensure RNs stay updated on the latest techniques and best practices in the field.
In similar fashion, he shared his groundbreaking initiative of partnering with a nursing school to launch the first certificate program in aesthetics. Additionally, he also discussed various other topics, including patient trends, anesthesia options, and marketing strategies, showcasing his comprehensive approach to running a successful aesthetic practice.
Visit Dr. Russoβs website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. The fastest and easiest way to grow your practice is to do the right things proven to work. If you could use help with that, schedule a no-obligation call with me to learn more.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drjosepharusso #drjosephrusso #howtohirerns #cosmeticnurseadvice #josepharussomd #josephrussomd #howtotrainrns #cosmeticnursetrainingadvice
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll discuss being in private practice inside a group practice. To be sure, we'll also discuss the general business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βPrivate Practice Inside Group Practice β with Kian Eftekhari, MDβ. Obviously, perating a private practice within a larger group practice presents unique opportunities, as well as challenges for the surgeon. Certainly, this model allows the surgeon to benefit from the infrastructure and resources of the group while maintaining some degree of autonomy in managing their own practice within it.
Specifically, in this week's Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode, I interviewed Dr. Kian Eftekhari β a board-certified ophthalmologist specializing in oculofacial plastic & reconstructive surgery in private practice inside a big ENT group practice in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Notably, we discussed the benefits of a private practice running inside a large practice with an in-house surgery center and how he manages both cosmetic and insurance patients while emphasizing great patient care for all.
Furthermore, Dr. Eftekhari shared insights into his 'private practice inside of a group practice' marketing plan, including his social media strategy to use educational content as a tool to connect with and inform prospective patients.
Additionally, we also talked about his rocky start of opening his practice just before the COVID shutdown with his website still in development.
Indeed, despite the challenges, Dr. Eftekhariβs positive attitude and resilience enabled him to successfully build a private practice inside of a group practice to be proud of.
Visit Dr. Eftekhariβs website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. The fastest and easiest way to grow your practice is to do the right things proven to work. If you could use help with that, schedule a no-obligation call with me to learn more.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#groupprivatecosmeticpractice #dreftekhari #kianeftekharimd #privatepracticeinsidegrouppractice
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll discuss marketing a young practice. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMarketing a Young Practice β with Victoria Givens, MDβ. Obviously, in the journey of a facial plastic surgeon's career, the first few years are filled with challenges, lessons, and growth opportunities when marketing a young practice. To be sure, it's a scary and confusing time, but itβs also a fantastic time to build character and get to know YOU better!
Notably, in this Saturdayβs video, we delve into the valuable lessons learned from 4 years in practice with Dr. Victoria Givens, a facial plastic surgeon based in Austin, Texas.
Chiefly, Dr. Givens shares insights sheβs gained from navigating the complexities of building and growing and marketing her young practice. Furthermore, she emphasizes the importance of patience, perseverance, and self-determination in overcoming obstacles and achieving success in this competitive field.
Additionally, Dr. Givens discusses the significance of continuous learning and improvement in patient care, highlighting the need for practitioners to adapt and evolve with the ever-changing landscape of cosmetic surgery, while marketing her young practice.
Certainly join us as Dr. Givens lays out her journeyβs wins and challenges, offering inspiration and guidance for fellow surgeons navigating their own paths in the field of cosmetic surgery, or who themselves are marketing a young practice.
Visit Dr. Givens' website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. The fastest and easiest way to grow your practice is to do the right things proven to work. If you could use help with that, schedule a no-obligation call with me to learn more.
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticemarketing #newsurgeonmarketing #marketingfornewsurgeons #victoriagivensmd
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to max your practice worth. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βMAX Your Practice Worth β with Catherine Maley, MBA β. This podcast is for you if youβve been in practice for a few decades or only a few months and everyone in between because if you donβt figure out the ever-changing business landscape, youβve only created a job for yourself.
Thatβs not a bad thing if thatβs what you want. But the goal is to be sure youβre clear what youβre working towards, so youβre satisfied with the outcome now and when itβs time to grow and/or exit.
I would think your overall objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice so itβs more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time so you have more of it to spend doing what you like, with the people you most enjoy being with.
Iβll start with a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson, who said:
βUnless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never growβ.
You already mastered surgery so the next step is to master the business and marketing side of surgery.
THAT is what catapults you to success and a more certain future.
However, that is the very thing that holds you backβ¦.the surgery. You went through hell to become a surgeon and youβre good at it. But you soon realize being a good surgeon isnβt enough.
It takes business and marketing finesse to build a busy surgical practice.
But in a cosmetic practice, you, the surgeon are the technician performing the surgery, but youβre also juggling the jobs of the business owner, visionary, and manager and that takes different skill sets. Itβs also not a good use of your time and it will not get you to your financial goals.
So weβre going to change that up for you because when you set up systems, you and your staff get clarity. And when you remove the complexity, results happen because βMoney is Made in the Processesβ.
So, here are the main success principles to focus on to get your practice off the ground, grow it year after year and weather the storms along the way:
Success Principle #1 on how to max your practice worth: Build a Team of Rock Stars Hiring the right team for your practice will be your biggest challenge but also your greatest asset. Because itβs all about the WHO.
Jim Collins, Author of Good to Great) says:
βThe most important decisions that businesspeople make are not βwhatβ decisions, but βwhoβ decisions.
What typically happens is surgeons want to fix the staffing problem quickly so when a staff person leaves, you have a tendency to hire fast to fill the position but then you have to deal with bad hires who donβt fit your values or your culture. And, you know all too well what bad hires cost you:
- You canβt rely on them;
- They are adding stress to your day and maybe even your nights when youβre trying to sleep;
- They have a negative impact on you, your other staff and your bottom line; and
- And did you know a bad hire costs at least 15X their salary in lost productivity?
That is a problem that is not going away so do everyone a favor and take care of it sooner rather than later.
So your new motto isβ¦.. Hire Slow β Fire Fast The point is to take more time at the beginning to choose the right team players so you save a lot of time and grief at the end trying to deal with a toxic staff person who is just not cutting it. And, be sure you have the right people doing the right jobs.
There is a saying in business,
βGet the right people on the bus and then get them in the right seatsβ
For example, certain staff should be on the front lines because they have excellent people skills and other staff have analytical skills and are better suited behind the scenes.
And, Itβs time to view staff as an asset vs. a liability. They ARE your secret practice-building weapons when it comes to patient-relations since they spend more time with your patients than you do. Staff can make or break your cosmetic practice so be sure you have the right people representing you.
They are your leverage.
You canβt do it all alone, nor should you want to. When you hire the right people, give them the right tools and hold them accountable, they handle the majority of the practice, so you donβt have to.
So what about Pay and Perks? The rule is, Donβt overpay on the hire. They must prove themselves first, since you can always add to but not take a way from their pay. Give them a 30-90 day probationary period so they can eliminate themselves if this is not a good fit after all or you can free them without much hassle if you donβt see them fitting in.
And rather than overpay, list all the perks they get in detail so they can see itβs not just their salary involved but all these other perks that really add up such as:
Health insurance, profit sharing, Β½ day Fridays, attend industry conferences, free training, complementary services and so onβ¦
Regarding bonuses, I realize there are all sorts of fee-splitting issues within our industry; however, Iβm a huge believer in bonusing staff when they go above and beyond whatβs expected of them.
So, rather than pay direct commission (which could be seen as fee-splitting), your team should win as a team and celebrate as a team since you want to create an environment where they all work together to achieve your goals. And todayβs staff doesnβt stay with you just for the money, so include:
- Acknowledgement since 70% of employees leave a job because they don't feel appreciated.
- Fun Work Environment
- Camaraderie
- Clarity
- Stress-Free Atmosphere
So the goal is to build a culture of like-minded people who have your back, love aesthetics, and love coming to work and giving it their all for the good of the practice.
Success Principle #2 on how to hax your practice worth: Build a smooth-running operation Streamlined operations increase the value and marketability of your practice for several reasons. Well-defined processes add consistency and reliability to patient care. Now your cosmetic patients have a consistent patient experience every time and that leads to not only patient satisfaction but also long-term loyalty.
Smooth operations increase efficiency and reduces waste of resources and overhead costs. Youβre eliminating unnecessary steps and bottlenecks, as well as preventable mistakes costing you time, money, and aggravation. This clarity also attracts and retains the best team players because they enjoy working for a practice that has well thought-out systems that allow them to do their job most efficiently.
To make this happen, document every step in the patient experience. Details count so take your time. Now brainstorm with your team how to improve it. Get it in writing so any team member can reference the document. The time you spend on this will pay off handsomely in time and money savings later.
Then, there is Success Principle #3 on how to max your practice worth: Automated Marketing Systems The objective is to have a strategic marketing plan that uses technology and creative strategies to attract more cosmetic patients to your practice and convert them into paid procedures AND do it profitably.
In today's uber competitive market, finding and nurturing prospective cosmetic patients can be a daunting task that canβt be ignored. Because leads are the lifeblood of a cosmetic practice. When they stop β you stop and so do your consultations, surgeries and revenues.
The secret is to have many βpoles in the pondβ so you have leads coming in from all fronts. So, if one marketing channel flops or closes on you, you still have the other marketing channels working.
Because βThe key to success is not doing more itβs doing more of what worksβ When you know how to leverage technology and the latest marketing strategies to attract a steady stream of cosmetic patients, while keeping your lead generation costs down, that increases your practiceβs profitability and transferability to a buyer.
But please keep in mind β leads are only 1 part of it. That means a lead is just a lead until you get them through your processes to a YES. Otherwise itβs a dead lead going nowhere. Which means you are just burning money on lead generation and NOT conversion and retention.
Before you invest in any more new patient-attraction shiny objects, plug up the holes in your systems that are costing you a silent fortune. Thatβs where youβll see new profits more quickly and easily. Itβs quality over quantity, which means you do less but get a better result because you slow down and go deeper.
So, yes, Increase the # of Leads by setting up automatic assets that get you more leads. For example,
Organic content on your website that google ranks
Google adwords for key words
Social media so would-be patients follow and interact with you opt-in form on your website for visitors to book a consult to name a few
Then Follow your successes. This is so obvious; itβs easily missed. You monitor the particulars of who gave you money. Pull reports called Revenues by referral source because you want to track how they heard about you.
You also want to note the procedure they had as well as the demographics such as age and zip code because you will see trends that youβll want to capitalize on and budget proportionately to those successes. Now you map out a Marketing Mix plan to reach more of those demographics that have proven to be a profitable target market.
Doesnβt that make more sense?
Now that you have leads coming in, you want to Increase the # of Appointments scheduled. You can get leads all day but can your receptionist convert them to a scheduled consultation with you? In a nutshell, here are the 5 phone fixes that make all the difference in your receptionist being able to book a caller to an appointment:
- Answer the phone within 2 rings with a warm, friendly human
- Ask How They Heard About You
- Promote you, the Surgeon, as the best choice
- ASK for the Appointment
- Collect Contact Info
Please be sure you have the right person representing you on the phones or let me know if you need help with that.
Then you want to increase the # of Consultations by Decreasing the No-Shows How many of the prospective patients who book an appointment actually show up? You block time for a consultation, and if your prospective patients are not showing up for their appointments, your valuable time is wasted, so hereβs what you do.
First, you establish a cancellation policy and then live by it. For example, you get their credit card upfront and either a charge a consultation fee or at least get a credit card to reserve time and the reservation is only charged if they do not cancel within 24 hours. Then call/email and text reminders. Keep in mind, nobody needs cosmetic rejuvenation so you want to help prospective patients make this a priority on their schedule.
Now you want to Increase # of Converted Consultations How well do you and your patient coordinator convert consultations into procedures? Everything that happened until this point is just βpre-marketingβ. You donβt get paid for consultations. You only get paid if you can successfully convert a consultation into a paid procedure. Therefore, THIS step has the biggest impact on your bottom line. The better you convert consultations into procedures, the more revenues youβll make for your practice.
I have been training coordinators to convert consultations for years, so if you need help with that, check out www.convertingacademy.com.
Then you want to Increase # of Returning Patients If your patients are NOT returning, they most likely are still getting aesthetic rejuvenation. They are just not getting it FROM YOU. Sorry!
You cater to a very hungry audience with endless needs. The patients who care about how they look and feel have all sorts of concerns you can address NOW AND for years to come thanks to the relentless aging process.
So, you want to Cross Promote Your Services Cosmetic Patients enter your practice through many doors. That means a patient who came in for Botox will often work their up the ladder to surgery or other big-ticket procedures and those who came in for surgery are much more likely to now be open to your minimally-invasive procedures and skin care treatments to stay looking good and feeling great.
You have so much leverage here because you already did the hard part, which was spending time, money, and effort attracting this patient to you. Now it takes only minimal effort to keep them coming back. This is how you max your practice worth. You set up a cosmetic patient attraction and conversion blueprint that keeps money flowing through your practice.
And last but not least is Success Principle #4 on how to max your practice worth: Is to Set Standards so You Donβt Compete on Price If you believe cosmetic patients believe there is no difference between you and your competitors, all they have to go on is price as their determining factor. But we know thereβs way more to it.
If aesthetic rejuvenation was based solely on price, this would always be about the lowest price and that would turn into a race to the bottom and then nobody wins. Itβs only about price until YOU add in other determining factors to help the prospective patient consider the VALUE they get.
Patients Weigh Their Options When a cosmetic patient questions your price, they are really doing a cost-benefit analysis in their heads and asking:
βWhat am I getting from you that Iβm NOT getting from your competitor for that higher price?β
Patients select their surgeon based on the perception they are getting βbetterβ. Better really equals more benefits, less risks and/or less hassle and that equals peace of mind, certainty and reassurance.
Actually, contrary to popular belief, the majority of cosmetic patients rarely decide based on price alone. Affordability β yes but price alone β rarely.
Pricing Starts with Your Own Mindset Get very clear about your value and what you stand for. Have conviction and believe in yourself and your prices. If you believe you deserve top dollar because you do great work, then price your services for your βpreferredβ patients. Those are the patients who see you as a skilled, reputable plastic surgeon and they are glad to pay more for your expertise so they can be confident theyβll get a great result safely.
So, determine whatβs most important to your preferred patients and give it to them. For example, is it price, procedures, technology, innovation, expertise, credibility, status, convenience, quality and/or 5-star customer service?
Once you have clarity about your preferred patients, you attract more of them and deter everyone else. Now you and your staff have more time and energy to focus on the serious prospective patients who are looking for quality and service more than saving a few dollars.
So, to recap, the success principles on how to max your practice worth to focus on are: Build a team of rock stars
With smooth-running processes that keep your office running smoothly and your staff on their game.
And you have an automated marketing system for attracting AND converting new cosmetic patients, that generates cashflow predictably
While Setting Standards so You Donβt Compete on Price
And, of course, If you could use some help to max the worth of your practice, letβs do a strategy call to ensure you are building a worthy assetβ¦.
Visit www.Catherinealey.com to set it up and weβll talk soon.
Thatβs it for this episode of beauty and the biz Please feel free to share this with your colleagues and staff, and check out more free resources on my website at www.Catherinealey.com.
And you can always DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#morecosmetircpracticeprofits #profitablecosmeticsurgeon #betterruncosmeticpractice #catherinemaley #catherinemaleymba
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to obtain reviews & B/A photos. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, β1,247 Reviews & B/A Photos β with Anil R. Shah, MDβ. Obviously, in the competitive landscape of cosmetic surgery, building a thriving practice requires more than just technical skill. To be sure, it demands a commitment to excellence and a dedication to patient satisfaction, in order to get more reviews & B/A photos.
To summarize, in this week's Beauty and the Biz episode, we delve into the world of exemplary patient care with Anil R. Shah, MD. Chiefly, he's a facial plastic surgeon in Chicago who's been in private practice for the past 18 years, and has 1,247 reviews & B/A photos.
Notably, Dr. Shah shares his philosophy on cultivating lifelong patient relationships and delivering outstanding results. Furthmore, with a staggering number of positive reviews and captivating B/A (before & after) photos, Dr. Shah's practice serves as a beacon of excellence in the field.
Above all, tune-in as we uncover the strategies behind Dr. Shah's practice's success and learn how a focus on patient well-being and clinical excellence can fetch you more reviews & B/A photos. Furthermore, it can elevate the patient experience to unprecedented levels of satisfaction and success Additionally, we also discussed: * Firstly, the importance of patient testimonials (reviews) & B/A photos. * Secondly, building trust through exceptional results to gain reviews & B/A photos. * Thirdly, fosering a culture of continuous improvement in patient care.
Visit Dr. Shah's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#moreplasticsurgeryreviews #moreplasticsurgerybeforeandafterphotos #anilshahmd
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to achieve a scarless facelift. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βA Scarless Facelift? β with Harvey βChipβ Cole, III, MDβ. To be sure, we've all seen tell-tale signs of facelifts: pulled skin, scars around the ears, and βSpock-likeβ earlobes.
Obviously, this is a big reason why a lot of would-be patients hold back from surgery. They do not want to look unnatural.
So, what if you could offer a scarless facelift with skin tightening that is natural? Would that be something your patients want?
In short, thatβs what Harvey Chip Cole III, MD wanted to test. Notably, he's a board-certified oculofacial plastic surgeon specializing in Ophthalmology and cosmetic surgery of the eyes and face.
Moreover, Dr. Cole has been in private practice since 1992 in Atlanta, GA. Chiefly, heβs coauthored a dozen+ medical books, as well as his own consumer Facelift book and heβs given over 100 lectures around the world.
Additionally, although he was on beauty and the biz over 2 years ago talking generally about his practice and our industry, this podcast episode focused on his unique approach to face lifting using the InsideOut Technique that he has perfected after 3800 facelifts.
Okβ¦.then how does he get inside?
Visit Dr. Cole's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#oculusplasticsurgery #atlantafacialplasticsurgery #insideoutfacelift
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about the why and how private equity fails. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βWhy Private Equity Fails β with Edwin Williams, MDβ. Without a doubt, the intersection of plastic surgery and private equity is growing in popularity, but it presents both opportunities and challenges. Specifically, to delve deeper into the nuances of private equity within our industry, I asked Dr. Edwin Williams, a distinguished facial plastic surgeon with decades of leadership and businessl experience, to come back onto the Beauty and the Biz podcast to share his invaluable insights and advice. In summary, Dr. Williams has become somewhat of an expert on PE after interviewing 20 PE firms personally to position his own practice for a transition.
Overall, hereβs what we covered:
- Firstly, Why they fail: To be sure, Dr. Williams shares candid observations on the common pitfalls that lead to the failure of private equity ventures in plastic surgery practices.
- Secondly, Navigating complexities: Additionally, from financial intricacies to maintaining practice autonomy, we talked about the multifaceted challenges that come with the merging of private equity firms and privately-run practices.
- Thirdly, Keys to success: Moreover, drawing from his own experiences, Dr. Williams offers practical advice and strategic approaches for plastic surgeons aiming to navigate the private equity landscape successfully.
Undeniably, It takes years of planning to set yourself up for your own profitable so these PE pearls will help. Visit Dr. Williamβs website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#dredwinwilliams #aafprspresident #cosmeticpracticeprivateequity
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to live off of referrals. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βLive Off of Referrals β with Babak Azizzadeh, MDβ. Is it possible to have a steady stream of patients without advertising? Today's guest reveals a practice strategy that relies solely on referrals, without the need for ads. It's all about cultivating trust and reputation, building solid relationships with patients and fellow doctors. Who needs advertising when you've got a network singing your praises? Good referrals are pure gold. When you give patients a fabulous experience with great results, you're also organically turning these patients into brand ambassadors. And, as we know, word-of-mouth is the absolute fastest, cheapest, easist path to new patients. Tune in to learn more about how to keep your practice thriving with a focus on top-notch care and letting the results speak for themselves. In this week's Beauty and the Biz episode, I interviewed Dr. Babak Azizzadeh β a facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in LA, who caters to aesthetic patients wanting facial rejuvenation, as well as specializing in the treatment of individuals with facial paralysis and Bellβs palsy. We talked about how he balances both patients with a credit card as well as patients with an insurance card, how he lives off of referrals and zero advertising, and how he manages to live in LA without a car. Visit Dr. Azizzadeh's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#allreferralpractice #noadbudget #nopracticeadvertising #drazizzadeh #babakazizzadehmd
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about practicing in The Netherlands. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βPracticing in The Netherlands β with Dr. Capi Weverβ. Truly, when it comes to advertising and marketing products and services, the US is often regarded as a global leader. Albeit for lots of reasons such as:
- Firstly, we have the biggest and most diverse consumer market in the world.
- Secondly, our advanced technology includes cutting-edge developments in digital advertising and strategies.
- Thirdly, we have lots of creativity coming from Hollywood to Madison Avenue in NY (hub to the major ad agencies), and
- Fourthly, when it comes to regulating advertising and marketing, the US is generally more lenient, so we have more flexibility with the messaging.
So, I thought it would be interesting to hear from a plastic surgeon who practices outside the US to get his take on growing a cosmetic practice in The Netherlands.
Specifically, in this episode of Beauty and the Biz, I interviewed Dr. Capi Wever. Indeed, he's a facial and reconstructive plastic surgeon practicing in he Netherlands. Markedly, he's been doing this for the past 21 years. Overall, he focuses on natural-looking rhinoplasty and facelifts.
Additionally, here are a few topics Dr. Wever talked about:
- Firstly, the economic challenges Dr. Wever faces such as the energy crisis and geopolitical tensions affect consumer confidence, as well as demand.
- Secondly, the Dutch healthcare system where most plastic surgeons work in the hospitals, and how is able to run a solo private practice outside of the system, and
- Thirdly, how he enjoys close to ZERO competition!
Visit Dr. Wever's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#netherlandsplasticsurgeon #drcapiwever #hollandplasticsurgeon
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll discuss how Doctor Umstattd conceived her new buildout without help. To be sure, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, in general
Indeed, Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, I'm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Presenting todayβs episode titled, βNew Buildout Without Help β with Lauren Umstattd, MDβ.
Spcifically, in this episode of Beauty and the Biz, I interviewed Lauren Umstattd, MD. Chiefly, we talked about her unique approach to building and managing her cosmetic surgery practice. Notably, Dr. Umstattd shared her experience of undertaking a new buildout for her practice without external help. Furthermore, she discussed the challenges she faced during this process, including the need for troubleshooting skills. Additionally, she noted the importance of being hands-on with every aspect of the buildout. Explicity, Dr. Umstattd emphasized the value of attention to detail and the satisfaction of seeing her vision come to life. Moreover, we discussed a range of other topics, including social media marketing strategies, advertising tactics, and the challenges of balancing work and family life. To be sure, Dr. Lauren Umstattd is a facial plastic surgeon who grew up in Kansas City, completed a majority of her training at the University of Missouri, and graduated with honors, all while competing as a Division 1 Gymnast.
Notably, she did a fellowship with renowned facial plastic surgeon Dr. Phillip Langsdon in TN, who is the past president of AAFPRS. Afterwards, she then returned to Kansas, where she bought land and built out her new practice from scratch, while also raising a couple of kids with her husband.
Markely, I had Dr. Umstattd on "Beauty and the Biz" back in February 2022, and I wanted to check back in with her to see how things are going.
Visit Dr. Umstattdβs website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#newpracticebuildout #midwestfemaleplasticsurgeon #kansasfemalecosmeticsurgeon #laurenumstattdmd #drumstattd
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz as we discuss hiring staff tips and challenges. In addition, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, Iβm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called βHiring Staff Tips and Challenges β with Stephen Weber, MDβ.
To be sure, the #1 challenge for a solo practice has been and will continue to be staffing.
Obviously, thatβs because human beings are involved. Certainly, every person comes to you with their own unique blend of values, beliefs, past experiences and emotions.
In addition, those above characteristics fluctuate when blended with other peopleβs characteristics. So, it makes sense that itβs an ever-changing pool of personalities coming together creating teamwork, drama and/or chaos.
Unquestionably, navigating these twists and turns of staff hiring is not for the faint hearted.
Without a doubt, failing to adhere to sound hiring principles can result in lost time. Additionally, bad patient reviews, low staff morale, and financial losses, including embezzlement. Yikes!
Specifically, this week's Beauty and the Biz podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Stephen Weber. Undoubtedly, he's a respected facial plastic surgeon in private practice for the past 15 years in Lone Tree, CO.
To be sure, Dr. Weber shares his successes in:
- Firstly in terms of hiring staff tips and challenges: Finding motivated individuals.
- Secondly in terms of hiring staff tips and challenges: Social media's impact on hiring
- Thirdly in terms of hiring staff tips and challenges: The evolving landscape of employee expectations.
Equally important, he also shared surprises faced when uncovering hidden criminal backgrounds.
Indeed, join us for a captivating discussion on transparency. Chiefly, Dr. Weber offers valuable insights that every cosmetic surgery practitioner can benefit from.
Visit Dr. Weber's website P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated bookβ¦FREE!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticsurgerypracticestaff #howtohirecosmeticsurgerystaff #hirebettercosmeticsurgerystaff
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz as we discuss customer service wins. In addition, weβll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Also, Iβm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called βCustomer Service Wins β with Catherine Maley, MBA.β
Without a doubt, the buzz in marketing this year is not the latest shiny object. Certainly, itβs not technology or some social media tactic or website plugins for our industry.
Specifically, itβs gotten way too competitive, noisy, and difficult for you to stand out. To be honest, how much different can your website or social post be from your competitors? Because, from the cosmetic patientβs viewpoint, itβs becoming a blur of sameness, making it difficult to choose you over others. In short, the buzz in marketing is about customer service, and the wins you get from excelling at it.
The Converting Academy 1/2 Price Sale! Ends January 27th.
Basically, itβs the patientβs perceptions, thoughts, and feelings resulting from all their interactions with you. Truly, this has become extremely important. Why is that? Because, a good customer experience can massively increase your bottom line. Truly, if you make patients feel good, then theyβre more likely to spend more money with you. As well, theyβll return more often and, of course, recommend you to their friends.
In summary, customer service wins because itβs the new marketing. Undeniably, itβs what differentiates you from your competitors. Indeed, as the marketplace gets even more crowded and noisier, the cosmetic patient with a credit card has a choice. Equally so, they have the power to choose you or anyone else. However, theyβre looking for and expect prompt and friendly service, as well as a good result. Overall, theyβre looking for a great patient experience from beginning to end.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#customerserviceforsurgeons #plasticsurgerycustomerservice #cosmeticsurgerycustomerservice
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz as we discuss how to fine-tune your follow-up. In addition, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying.β Also, Iβm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called βFine-Tune Your Follow-Up β with Catherine Maley, MBAβ.
Oftentimes, when it comes to converting incoming leads, hereβs a typical scenario in a plastic surgeonsβ officeβ¦.
Firstly, the staff meets with the patient face-to-face. Secondly, the patient says they have to think about it. Thirdly, the coordinator sends them on their way with the quote and now the game of pursuit begins.
-
Generally, staff canβt get the prospective patient on the phone.
-
Oftentimes, the patient wonβt return your staffβs phone call.
-
Too often, the patient wonβt respond to your staffβs emails
Undoubtedly, this is so frustrating for staff because they take time out to follow-up. Oftentimes, they give up quickly because they feel discouraged wasting time with βstranger patientsβ. Specifically, they feel these werenβt good leads to begin with, so why bother.
Maybe thatβs true but maybe itβs NOT true.
The Converting Academy 1/2 Price Sale! Ends January 27th.
Too often, I hear over and over from staff that they donβt want to appear pushy and βsalesyβ. Normally, they give the prospective patient one call or send an email several days after the consult. After which, they maybe try again in a month.
Unsurprisingly, the incoming lead grows colder and colder and is placed in the βdead leadβ file. As a result, it's never to be seen or heard from again.
With this in mind, if youβve experienced this in your own practice, itβs time to re-think your follow-up process. In summary, it's time to close the gap of lost profits.
In other words, wouldnβt you be better off spending less on advertising and investing more in converting training? There's no question that this will help ensure your staff book more surgeries.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#plasticsurgeryleadconversion #convertmoreplasticsurgeryleads #plasticsurgeryconversiontraining
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz as we discuss having a one-stop shop for cosmetic patients. In addition, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, Iβm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called βOne-Stop Shop for Cosmetic Patients β with James Newman, MDβ.
In truth, here is something you may not be aware of. Undoubtedly, a typical cosmetic patient βspreads the wealthβ, so you rarely get all of their discretionary income.
For example, they see you for surgery of the face, someone else for a body procedure, another for laser treatments. Then, someone else for injectables and they buy their skincare products online.
But, what if you could offer ALL services under one roof and address all of the patientβs aesthetic needs? To be sure, this will save them time and allow them to bond and brag about you to their friends. Additionally, dramatically increasing the lifetime value of that patient.
In short, this means more profits for you and less advertising costs scouting for new patients.
Indeed, my latest guest on Beauty and the Biz has this figured out. Specifically, Itβs Dr. James Newman, a facial plastic surgeon in private practice. In brief, he's in my neck of the woods near Stanford University in Northern California.
Furthermore, he explains how he set up a one-stop, multi-specialty practice to provide solutions for all cosmetic patients.
Notably, this approach has increased his word-of-mouth business, while eliminating his advertising costs.
Visit Dr. Newman's website P.S. Dr. Newman invites you to the 22nd Annual Winter Meeting, CME Accredited Multi-Disciplinary Meeting. Mention this podcast to get 10% OFF registration fee.
Details at: www.SAFPASLakeTahoe.com
Iβll be speaking so I hope to see there!
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#jamesnewmanmd #bayareaplasticsurgeon #bayareacosmeticsurgeon #paloaltoplasticsurgeon #paloaltocosmeticsurgeon
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Indeed, weβll talk about how Doctor Stein is only 4 years out and busy. In addition, we'll also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, Iβm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called β4 Years Out and Busy β with Michael J. Stein, MDβ.
Truly, I often wonder how a young surgeon enters the aesthetic industry today. To be sure, there's intense competition, rapid technological advancements and changing times happening faster than ever. Without a doub, this is no easy feat.
Most importantly, given the challenges and opportunities of this dynamic environment, how do you establish yourself?
Specifically, this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is with Dr. Michael Stein. Indeed, he's a plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice on Park Avenue, Manhattanβs Upper East Side.
Markedly, he specializes in mommy makeovers and complex breast surgery. Equally important, he speaks and publishes regularly on these techniques nationally and internationally.
To be sure, Dr. Stein has been practicing for the past 4 years and pursuing his passion for both aesthetic and reconstructive surgery.
For this reason, heβs busy, happy and excited for the future.
Visit Dr. Stein's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drmichaelstein #michaelsteinmd #manhattanplasticsurgeon #manhattancosmeticsurgeon #parkavenueplasticsurgeon #parkaveplasticsurgeon
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we'll talk about how to set up your 2024 marketing plan. In addition, we also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Also, Iβm a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called βHow to Set Up Your 2024 Marketing Plan β with Catherine Maley, MBAβ.
Because the new year is right around the corner, this presentation is well worth a listen to prepare for it. To illutrate, there is a famous Benjamin Franklin quote that is as true today as it was then, and that is:
"If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail."
As you can see, you can no longer wing it. Indeed, you've got way too many marketing channels to choose from and too many competitors after the same patients, to NOT have a plan.
Firstly, on the topic of how to set up your 2024 marketing plan, you have to be everywhere to grab the attention of prospective patints and that takes time, money and lots of effort.
Secondly, on the topic of how to set up your 2024 marketing plan, I'm going to give you strategies to help you gain more market share faster, cheaper and smarter.
Thirdly, on the topic of how to set up your 2024 marketing plan, if you would like help mapping out your own marketing plan for 2024, Iβm happy to help. Just book a strategy call at CatherineMaley.com. In the meantime, enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#setupyourmarketingplan #plasticsurgeonmarketing plan #cosmeticsurgeonmarketingplan
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Indeed, we talk about leads checklist for surgeons. To be sure, we also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Indeed, todayβs episode is called βA Leads Checklist for Surgeons β with Catherine Maley, MBA β.
Undoubtedly, even though you are a skilled surgeon and do great work, the absence of a steady stream of patients will challenge your success.
Specifically, in a competitive environment, cosmetic patient acquisition is as important as the surgeonβs skills.
In other words, you canβt count on your reputation alone to keep you busy.
That is to say, you need many fishing poles in the pond. Without a doubt, leveraging various marketing channels to grow your lead generation of prospective patients interested in your services. Unquestionably, this is paramount in working with a leads checklist for surgeons.
To summarize, hereβs a presentation I did talking about setting up your own lead checklist. In particular, I've outlined several strategies you or your staff can easily implement to get you more leads now.
Of course, if you would like help with that, please schedule a complimentary strategy call at catherinemaley.com. Truly, I'd be happy to talk about your particular situation and how I can help.
Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#surgeonsleads #cosmeticsurgeonsleads #plasticsurgeonleads
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Indeed, we talk about how Doctor Martin increased his PR image by appearing on "Botched", "Anderson Cooper", and "Dr. Oz". To be sure, we also discuss the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are sayingβ. Iβm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called βBotched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR β with John Martin, MDβ.
Certainly, as John D. Rockefeller said,
βNext to doing the right thing, the most important thing is to let people know you are doing the right thing.β
However, is all PR really good PR? Truly, do you really want to be known for some negative event that you are somehow involved in? Furthermore, does it bring you the kind of attention (and patients) you want?
In summary, thatβs what I asked this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest. Dr. John Martin. Markedly, he's a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Coral Gables, FL. Particularly, he's been in practice for the past 36 years. Specifically, he's received lots of PR exposure from the popular shows "Botched", "Dr. Oz" & "Anderson Cooper".
Notably, Dr. Martin had treated a trans patient whose face was injected with oil as a filler years ago. However, after a year, nodules were appearing, and reappearing. Indeed, the patient looked like this when they asked Dr. Martin to help ...
In summary, we talked about how he helped this person as well as:
Firstly on the topic of 'Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR: The PR exposure Dr. Martin got and if it grew his practice.
Secondly on the topic of 'Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR: How he bought his building for a steal.
Thirdly on the topic of 'Botched, Dr. Oz & Anderson Cooper PR: His biggest challenge, even after all of these years and much more...
Visit Dr. Martinβs website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drjohnmartin #johnmartinmd #thedoctors #drphil #droz #andersoncooper #botched #miamiplasticsurgeon #miamicosmeticsurgeon
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. Therefore, we discuss the challenges of running a practice with 3 surgeons plus 33 staff.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying". I'm also a consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called β3 Surgeons plus 33 Staff β with Brenton Koch, MDβ.
Of course, if you want to scale your practice, (espcially if wanting to have 3 surgeons plus 33 staff) you can:
- Firstly, hire a younger βyouβ so they can lighten your load, OR.....
- Secondly, bring on another specialty surgeon to offer more services to your patients, OR....
- Thirdly, create a non-surgical arm of your practice with ancillary staff performing the treatments, OR....
Without doubt, you can do one or all those strategies. However, that will take you learning new skills to get it all working harmoniously.
In summary this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Brenton Koch, MD. In particular, he's a facial plastic surgeon in private practice with a total of 3 surgeons plus 33 staff. Indeed, he's been practicing in West Des Moines, Iowa, for the past 23 years.
Markedly, we talked about his journey to private practice and buying land in 2008 and then building a 10K sq ft facility on it.
Additionally, we discussed him adding more staff. In particular, having his nephew partner with him. In similar fashion, he then added another surgeon to do body work.
Overall, they are now at 33 staff and still growing. In particular, we talked about pearls Dr. Koch has learned about where to find staff and how to motivate them.
Explicitly, Dr. Koch also shared an embezzlement story everyone should hear so it doesnβt happen to you.
Visit Dr. Koch's website Enjoy!
Catherine Maley, MBA
Schedule Your FREE Strategy Call with Catherine!
P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#getmorepatients #plasticsurgerymarketing #plasticsurgerysocialmedia
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and therefore, using influence to convert more consults.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called βUsing Influence to Convert More consults β with Catherine Maley, MBA β.
Truly, you donβt βsellβ anyone on plastic surgery. It's not possible to force consumers to choose you. You can only offer your services to consumers who want to look and feel better.
However, if you believe in yourself as a great surgeon, you have a duty in using influence to convert more consults. Do all you can to ethically help prospective patients make a good decision. That way, they get a good result and NOT regret going elsewhere for a cheaper price. Cheaper practices may give them βless than stellarβ results. In turn, this makes them feel worse about themselves.
Look at it this way. Prospective patients are already interested in your services because:
Firstly, they searched online. Secondly, they found you. Thirdly, they called you. Fourthly, they are now visiting you. You didnβt pull them in off the street, right?
However, the more you understand human behavior and using influence to convert more consults, the more consultations you will convert. So, here are ways to use the principles of influence to address patient concerns. Help them choose you over your competitors.
Dive Deeper into using influence to convert more consults. Check out my Cosmetic Practice Vault and save $2,000 for a limited time. Use promo code: THANKS In summary, this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, titled βUsing Influence to Convert More Consults,β we invite you on a journey where you'll certainly uncover the following:
Firstly, give yourself celebrity status is one way of using influence to convert more consults. Truly, patients love status and authority. You can create that by pre-framing you as the best choice by using PR, videos and social media to create celebrity status for yourself.
Secondly, establishing social proof is another pillar of using influence to convert more consults. Certainly, what others say about you is infinitely more important than what you say about you. Thatβs why reviews, testimonials and before/after photos are so popular.
Thirdly, differentiating yourself is yet another key aspect of using influence to convert more consults. The point is to NOT be like everyone else. You want to rise above the normal and one way to do that is to offer signature procedures.
Fourthly, suggesting reciprocity is another method of using influence to convert more consults. It's said that the law of reciprocity states that when people receive something, they feel compelled to return the favor in kind. For example, someone has surgery with you and you want them to experience your non-surgical treatments.
Fifthly, creating scarcity is necessary in using influence to convert more consults. It's true that patients want what they canβt have. Therefore, by creating a limiting constraint, this makes patients want it more than if it were abundantly available.
Sixthly, creating urgency is key in using influence to convert more consults. Truly, procrastination is the biggest enemy for a cosmetic patient to pull the trigger.
Seventhly, guaranteeing your services is vital in using influence to convert more consults. It's a fact that fear is a huge barrier to someone who is deciding to have cosmetic surgery. Offer the patient peace of mind with an βI want you happyβ guarantee.
In conclusion, by incorporating some or all of these strategies will help your patients get to a yes more easily.
I guarantee it ;-)
P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#influencecosmeticpatientconsults #getmorecosmeticpatientconsultations #convertmorecosmeticpatientconsultations #howtoconvertmoreconsults
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and therefore, attracting and converting cosmetic patients.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called βAttracting and Converting Cosmetic Patients β with Catherine Maley, MBA β.
In essence, with all that is going on in the world and the uncertainty of the economy, I wanted to give you a different perspective on how to attract cash-paying patients on autopilot without advertising or discounting.
In truth, now, more than ever, is a good time to reconsider how you go about cosmetic patient attraction and conversion so this recording is a workshop I did that will open your mind to a new way of thinking.
In conclusion, this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, titled βAttracting and Converting Cosmetic Patients,β we invite you on a journey where you'll certainly uncover the following:
Firstly, how to scale your cosmetic revenues without advertising, even if youβre surrounded by competition.
Secondly, why premium pricing is the secret to getting even better results for your patients than you are now.
Thirdly, how this one simple plan increases cosmetic patient visits while decreasing overhead expenses.
Fourthly, why redesigning your website, endless content marketing and magazine ads are the worst way to attract new patients..and what you can do to create immediate momentum today.
And fifthly, and how to do all of this while enjoying a fulfilling livelhood, developing lasting relationships with your patients, and enjoying the pride that comes with transforming the lives of others.
I hope you get much value from this and letβs talk soon.
Dive Deeper into learning how to attract and convert more cosmetic patients. Check out my Cosmetic Practice Vault and save $2,000 for a limited time. Use promo code: THANKS P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticevault #getmorecosmeticpatients #convertmorecosmeticpatients #attractmorecosmeticpatients #howtomakemoremoneyinplasticsurgery
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and therefore, how to get more leads for free.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called βGet More Leads for Free β with Catherine Maley, MBA β.
In essence, have you ever noticed some people seem to be everywhere on the Internet? As in, they keep popping up and you wonder how do they do that? In truth, itβs not by accident, nor is it by luck. They have a plan to make that happen so they stay βtop of mindβ.
This is the reason that throughout the years, I have developed my own marketing plan, in order to help you get more leads for free. Certainly, this was the topic of one of my latest talks I recently gave at the CSCS Conference in San Diego.
Therefore, since I received lots of positive feedback, I wanted to share it with you so you too, stay βtop of mindβ.
In conclusion, this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, titled βGet More Leads for Free,β we invite you on a journey where you'll certainly uncover the following:
Firstly, the vital Marketing Mix, which is crucial for being present wherever cosmetic patients are.
Moreover, explore the 3 indispensable Marketing Channels that you MUST utilize for optimal results.
Additionally, discover the Content Creation Machine, which is a powerful tool that seamlessly brings in leads for free.
Dive Deeper in Getting More Leads for Free. Check out my Cosmetic Practice Vault. ON SALE! Use promo code: DIFFER P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA:
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#plasticsurgeonleads #patientleads #cosmeticpatientleads #plasticsurgerypatientleads #plasticsurgeryleads #cosmeticsurgeryleads #cosmeticsurgeonleads #getmorepatientleads
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we delve into the intricacies of the plastic surgery industry, and talk about what's your competitive advantage. Here, we explore the business and marketing aspects that can make or break your success.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, the author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying." I also serve as a consultant to plastic surgeons, guiding them to acquire more patients and maximize their profits through strategic planning and effective marketing.
Now, in today's episode titled "Whatβs Your Competitive Advantage β with Catherine Maley, MBA," we'll be addressing a common issue many plastic surgeons face.
A plastic surgeon client was complaining to me the other day that his colleague was doing more surgeries than he was. Nonetheless, he didn't have clarity on the question, "What's your competitive advantage."
He was frustrated because he KNEW he was way more qualified and skilled than this other guy. Besides, he had been in the area longer than this other guy.
And, to top it off, his prices were even better than this other guyβs. However, despite all these advantages, "the other guy" was doing better than him.
The answer is both simple and complicatedβ¦
Just because youβre a great surgeon with impressive credentials, that no longer entitles you to a busy, successful practice. Instead, if you can't answer the question, "What's your competitive advantage," you might struggle.
Our industry has been saturated with lots of choice for cosmetic patients; consequently, they are overwhelmed.
Prospective patients are clicking all over the Internet, and they are visiting many websites. All too often, these websites start looking the same.
They are searching for something more. They are searching for connection.
The prospective patient is searching for a connection with you. Somehow, they have to have an emotional shift when reading about you, watching you, and meeting you.
Thatβs what builds trust and belief that youβre the best choice for them. This is key to understanding what's your competitive advantage.
Gain a competitive advantage above the rest. Check out my Cosmetic Practice Vault. ON SALE! Use promo code: DIFFER P.S. Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today on Beauty and the Biz.
If you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
"The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue."
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and whether to slow down or double down.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Slow Down or Double Down β with Steven J. Pearlman, MD".
After being in practice for many years, some surgeons have had enough. While they enjoy surgery, they do not enjoy the ups and downs of running the business size of their practice.
Or figuring out how much to spend and who to spend it with to get them new patients.
Or, they have had enough of staffing and HR issues to last them a lifetime ;-)
But other surgeons love a challenge and have no intention of slowing down. They see their cosmetic practice more like a puzzle. The puzzle pieces are their resources and assets, so they are constantly fitting the pieces together to make up a smooth running, profitable money-making machine.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest was Dr. Steven Pearlman, a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice on the upper eastside of NY.
Dr. Pearlman has been in practice over 34 years and instead of slowing down, he chose to double down.
We talked about how he scaled by doubling his space in Manhattan, adding another surgeon, as well as bringing on more technology and staff to run it, and where social media fits into his marketing plan.
We also talked about how he got 256 legitimate reviews from some of the toughest patients in the world (rhino), and his amazing wardrobe and shoe collection.
Visit Dr. Pearlmanβs website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you! Click below:
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Transcript:
Slow Down or Double Down β with Steven J. Pearlman, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: β
Hello everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and whether to slow down or double down. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today is a very special guest that I've known for a very long time, and it took me forever to get him on there. So, I'm very excited to introduce Dr. Steven Pearlman, who chose to double down instead of slow down. He's a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice on the Upper East Side of New York for more than 34 years. He's got a focus on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, as well as revision rhinoplasty.
Now, Dr. Pearlman is director for the Center of Aesthetic Facial Surgery for the New York Head and Neck Institute, attending surgeon at Lenox Hill and Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospitals and Clinical Professor at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. Now, Dr. Pearlman writes for medical journals and lectures all over the world.
He's also a fellowship director and preceptor as well as past President of the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons, and founding President of the New York Facial Plastic Surgery Society. And if that isn't enough, Dr. Pearlman also donates his time and surgical skills to Face to Face, Little Baby Face Foundation, and the National Domestic Violence Project.
Dr. Pearlman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Thank you for having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, why facial plastic surgery? It's been a long time, but why not plastic surgery or orthopedic surgery? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, when I, when I was training, when I was resident, actually in medical school, you wanted to decide your specialty. And I was at Mount Stein as a medical student and the program in ENT otolaryngology was extremely strong, had some excellent role models.
So, I went into an ENT residency and in a residency, it was basically head and neck cancer surgery and cosmetic surgery. We did major reconstructive surgery with Dr. Hugh Biller, who is literally one of the leading head and neck cancer surgeons in the world. But also, facial plastic surgery, and actually during my residency, we looked at numbers compared to plastic surgery residents and found we did three times as many rhinoplasty, twice as many facelifts and blepharoplasty as a plastic surgery resident.
So, we were certainly qualified, both from our surgical skills, our anatomy, and our practices. To continue. So, I went into practice and was doing both head, neck and cosmetic, and you really can't master everything. So, I decided to hone in my skills and advance my practice in cosmetic surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really good point. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Trying to balance more than, you know, you can be the jack of all trades, or you can get really good at a certain few things. Did you immediately go into private practice after fellowship, or did you do that journey where you bounced around with other practices for a while? What was that like?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, actually none of the above.
I did a fellowship in facial plasticity with Dr. Bill Friedman, who came to New York from St. Louis. And early on in the fellowship, he had just come to New York and wanted to As a chief St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital and wanted to build his, his, his faculty and asked me to join him on the faculty there.
So, is it St. Luke's Roosevelt in the hospital based private practice. We also had for the 11 Columbia residents, so we were fully academically involved. He was also shifting from St. Louis. So, literally, I was. I was in New York five days a week. He's in New York, three and a half, two and a half days a week.
And as early as my fellowship, I was basically overseeing five resident clinics and, and rounding twice a day with residents and teaching in, in addition to learning. So, I, I started as an academic when he left, which is a year and a half after my fellowship because the hospital left in St. Louis gave him basically an offer, couldn't refuse.
And so, I relocated back to St. Louis. They made me acting chief of the NT a year and a half out of my fellowship. So, I'm sitting on the medical board with all these senior people and sort of running the program until they brought in a new chief. And so, I stayed with that group, Dr. Yoseph Crespi, who specializes in head and neck surgery, brought in some other surgeons with him.
I stayed with that group from, you know, again, 88 to 90 with Friedman, 90 to 2000. And that's when I said, you know, I'm with this hospital-based group. And I still gave up the head and neck cancer. I called myself a facial plastic surgeon. I had already been committee chairman of the AFPRS for a number of committees.
I'd already been regional vice president. But it was still less than half my practice, because within a group ENT practice, we were up to about seven or eight doctors. Even though I called myself a facial plastic surgeon, I was still an otolaryngologist first. And I over half my practice was general ENT things.
So, when I went, I basically left and went solo, stopped accepting insurance plans, called all my ENT, all my first and second patients, I'm no longer accepting ENT patients. And that's when I sort of went solo, it was the 2000s, about 12 years after being in practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you go straight to the Upper East side of New York? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
You were on Park Avenue. Did you start there? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, I had, I had a small consult office that I bought that the group actually rented for me. because when I was the hostile based group, we were on West 59th Street and we had a big office, but we wanted an east side presence. So, I had purchased a, a group on an office down the Upper East side because there's nothing for rent since I had a stake in it.
And then when I went solo, I sold that office. Took that money I made on the office and then built Austin Park in 60th, about a 2, 000 square foot office with an operating room, a certified OR.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And at that point, did you go strictly cosmetic or were you still trying to do both? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: I went strictly cosmetic. I mean, some of my referrals would send me patients, I wouldn't turn them away, but I was dropping out of all the insurance plans, I was dropping, you know, I was no longer participating in any of the plans.
And so, I went cosmetic really in 2000 and then, you know, a year later it was, was, was 9 11 just as I was starting to ramp up, you know, I went from quiet to starting busy and then quiet again. And so, it was a lot of time sitting around that office. Everybody was, so everything was quiet in New York.
But, you know, they, it takes time. With a medical practice, you know, ENT, you can, if you do quality work, you need a half a dozen referrers. You're nice to people, you're nice to your patients, you do quality work, you send them referral letters. You can build a medically related practice within a couple years because medic surgery takes Eight to 10 years.
And that's what it took me to 12 years and they went down and back up again. And literally I'm still building. I'm still going up from when I went solo in 2000.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The younger guys say to me all the time, their vision of what they want and their vision that used to take 10 years, they've got it down to one or two. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
And I just, I can't imagine how realistic that is because I do think it takes, it takes a minute. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: For most people, it's 10 to 12. The one to two is the very rare individual who is very good at marketing and social media and TikTok and Instagram and, and is getting, putting themselves out there. It used to be, you know, when I started, people would find their surgeons, the top surgeons, by who's publishing, who's teaching, who's in clinical practice, who's writing, who's going to meetings, who are the officers in the academies.
And then. After I was, you know, in about the 90s, mid to late 90s, public relations, I actually did PR, and it was, who was being mentioned in the magazines, who was being viewed in the newspapers, who was on TV. Then it was, who has the best websites. Now it's social media. And if you are a giant that's really good at it, you can build a practice fast, but it's a small minority.
The problem line is you still have to provide quality work to back it up. You know, you can't fake it when it comes to academics. 20 years ago, unfortunately, some people can fake it. Oh, the best nose job in New York. You've been out a year. The best facelift in New York. You've been out a year. Gain some skills.
Get some good before and afterβs. Get a little bit of humility before you start touting yourself as the best as.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I see that a lot. Yeah. So, you, you always like facelifts and rhinoplasty. It feels like rhinoplasty. What do you prefer more facelifts or rhino? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: I prefer for rhinoplasty. I find it, it's a more challenging operation, more exciting.
Unfortunately, the patients are more difficult than facelift patients because, you know, nowadays with, with social media and selfies from every angle. People are much pickier about their results. It used to be, you have a bump, you have a big tip, the nose looks better, you're happy. Now, well, it's better, but.
So, I'm going to ask you to go to me, I do give talks on, on crooked noses and on happy patients. So, it's, it's a more difficult era nowadays dealing with a rhinoplasty patient than it ever was before. You know, I have some colleagues who were actually thrilled, I won't mention their names, but they, they have mostly facelift practices and said, I'm so glad not to do rhinoplasty anymore, because I love the operation.
But I found the patients to be quite challenging.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear that a lot. Yeah. They used to say the facelift patients were particular until they did Rhino. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: All relative. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Then they changed their marketing plan. So, you did something very interesting that I have toted forever, but I just love that you have added an associate. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
So, can you just talk about how you're scaling? Because you're doing your thing, you know, you're. Rhino and facelift. What did you do to scale? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Okay, so first, my first associate was within my own specialty. I was approached by my patient coordinator and my wife who got together and said, we really liked your fellow.
Very personable. We think he's skilled. If we could take one quarter of the patients say you're too expensive for rhinoplasty or facelift and convert them for him, he'll be busy right away. So, I brought my then fellow on and it was working, it was a slow process because unfortunately that 25 percent of patients, they didn't want him, they wanted me at his price.
So, he was starting to build a press meantime. He's doing a lot of fillers. A lot of injectables. He became a filler injectable expert. He was, he was giving lectures for the companies, which is great because, you know, I did E and T to build my practice. He's doing fillers and injectables. I had him doing the minimally invasive, the face tights.
And, you know, our turning point was probably around when COVID hit. And at that point he was basically a single guy living in a one-bedroom apartment in New York City. He's from L. A. He called me and said, you know, I really like working for you, but I, I miss having room. So, he, he departed. And now he's practicing part time in L.
- and part time in Vegas. Medicina, good skilled guy, nice guy. And more power to him because Vegas needs him. Facial plastic surgeons have a lot of plastic surgeons, but you know, no high-end facial plastic surgeon. He will be the guy So, then I decided, you know, it's time to replace him and say, you know what instead of trying to Fit them into my mold.
Let me add somebody who provides a service that I don't offer Because Iβm kidding how many times Iβm sending out; you know names They want press liposuction. I have a scar on my belly. I want, you know, various. And so, we're referring it all out and said, let's bring it in house. So, I had one associate didn't quite work.
And I brought another one on who started in July, started August 1st. Brian Basiri Tarani, who is real gentlemen. And I called the fellowship director, Ford Nahai, and Ford, who's the press president of Everything Plastic. And a true, a true gentleman. Look at, you know, a diction gentleman has a picture of him and he says, listen Steven, if he works for you and it doesn't work out, you don't like him.
He's not a good person, isn't a great surgeon. I tell you; he is a great surgeon. He's a good kid. He learns, he's humble. If any of those things don't come true, I don't want you calling me back saying, Why you misleading. He says, I stake my reputation on this young man. And so far, he's been right. He, he's a, he's a, he's a rising star.
And a nice person too, which is easy, which makes it a lot better to deal with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That was a huge referral that you got there. It was, it was. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: There's a reference. Yeah, it was a reference. I got.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, a reference, you don't need to vet as much, but you know, you want to make sure that they share your values are similar, but I just. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Love the fact that you thought outside the box and went with a non-competing surgeon. That's half the problem. Like you guys couple, but you're the same specialty and then you're almost competitors rather than associates or partners or I just think that's a great idea. So, now are you kind of like a one stop shop? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Is that the point?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: That's our goal. Yes, and I mean, I just got a call today about, you know, patient with, with a, with a, with a cheek fracture. I haven't done a facial fracture in, in, in 20 years, but that's it. Call, talk to Dr. Baier. Tara, you they're going go about the BBT, I'm sure he did lots of those in residency and, and happy to have ha have him do it.
And patients say, you know what, while I'm having my rhinoplasty, how about these love handles? So, these things we can coordinate together instead of trying to bring in someone from outside to come and coordinate and do it at the same time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And is he sharing in the cost of the OR and? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, it's, it's a, you know, he's on a salary basis and a percentage after each is that.
So, you know, his patients are, are, are charged an OR fee, which goes to practice. And then. Whatever his surgical fees are, are based on, you know, whatever his, you know, employment contract.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And does he live off of your reputation and credibility and marketing efforts, or does he do his own, have you decided how the marketing works on that? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Both. So, we have pretty strong, well, pretty strong website presence, not for body, but I have a very good presence. For our website, we have tens of thousands of patients in our databases have been practiced so long for, for our, our email blasts. And social media is getting up there. It's 14, 000, which is, which is, you know, compared to some of the big, big shots.
It's small time, but we're getting good presence. So, he's got his own, but he has to tag us. But half of this half the physician posts from our practice are about him and building his practice. And it compliments me. I mean, if he trains from four and a half, he gets a facelift patient. I'm happy to have him do the facelift.
I know he's trained it. I'm not going to tell him. Oh, you're not a facial plastic surgeon. He's trained. He's skilled. So, I'm not restricting them. And a lot of plastic surgeons are told that if you go work for a facial plastic surgeon, they won't let you do noses and faces. So, I'm sure you can. We're not.
Someone calls and says, I want a rhinoplasty. He's not getting that consult unless they say, I want to see Dr. BBT. Then it's his patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so far, so good. How long has he been on board? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Only, only for about a month and a half. But it's a breath of fresh air. He's a gentleman patients like him; the staff loves him.
Very easy going. And it just, we're just, you know, I, I see a nice future here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. I have noticed though, it's around the two-year mark that things can go sideways because they get their legs, you know they start thinking I can do this on my own. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: And he might, which is, which is, you know, that happens and I think maybe.
I don't know the statistics. It's well under 50 percent stay. We'll see what happens. But right now, it's too early to tell. It's my job to build them up and get them as busy as it can be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you also brought on other revenue generators like your NP. And she's doing the non-surgical. She's doing a killer job on Instagram and TikTok. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Forget that. She's a killer job in the office. She's booked solid. She's It's about a week or two to get an appointment with her. We had someone who was very good before her that, you know, when someone leaves, she left because she was offered a great opportunity. You know, I say, gee, how are we going to fill those shoes?
And she's filled those shoes and more. So, Lisa's a great, great nurse practitioner. She does great quality work. And Christine, who used to run my OR for like 10 years, Then said, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm done. I'm done with this. I'm tired of, you know, babysitting pages. I want to be more active. She spent the last few years in the OR learning lasers and fillers and toxins, going to really high-quality meetings and courses, cadaver dissection courses.
She moved to Florida because that's where her boyfriend moved. Her, her, actually her family got her boyfriend his ideal job. But in Florida, she's an RN. RNs cannot inject and they cannot do lasers. And so, she said, no, I, I miss treating patients. All I'm doing is like giving like vitamin cocktails and doing facials and hydro facials.
So, she now works for us Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. She comes up Monday night, works three days and goes home on, on Friday mornings. And can't tell how many patients who are thrilled that Christine is back. So, now we have two superb people, you know, who are here treating a patient. I'm doing very little Botox and fillers now because, you know, I'm told I'm better off spending my time doing consults and seeing my post ops, but otherwise, if I'm too busy with Botox and fillers, it takes the time away from consults and taking the best care of my surgical patients.
So, you know, I, if someone sees me, it costs more and not because I'm better, but because. I want, I want to go down the hall and I'll tell patients, you know, when my wife comes into the office for Botox and fillers, she walks by and says, hi, and walks down the hall to them. So, you know, my wife and my wife knows where to go.
So, she can have, I do if she said so, but she's going to them. That's where my patients go.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, now, oh, do you also have a hair restoration? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: John Frank comes in a couple of times a month. He's not part of the practice. We support him in terms of, you know, rent of space. He's on my website. He's got a bio there.
He's independent and he does, he does hair restoration. Yeah, he's actually, he's a super nice guy. He has two Super Bowl rings.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Why? For hair restoration? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: No, no, no. The Super Bowl. He was He was a tight end for the 49ers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He went from being a football player to a hair restoration doctor? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Pro football player after his second Super Bowl ring with 49ers back in their heyday.
He went back to medical school and then went to you know, after his full ENT residency, went into facial plastics fellowship in hair restoration. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, you got to be kidding. I moved out here in, I think 84 in San Francisco. And the 49 ERs were just the, you know, the bomb. Yeah. And everybody loved like what's his name?
Montana and Dwight.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: He was on that team.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. What's his last name?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: John Frank.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Huh? Do you use him in your marketing? You might want to. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, he's, I, he, he's on our, he's, you know, our, in our, he is on the website. It's got a page, but really marketing here because he's not. He's not part of the practice, but so, you know, suddenly go to my website and look at providers.
He's got, he's got a page and you click on it. It'll, it'll take you to his, to his, you know, information, how to reach him.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, but I didn't know he was a football player. Anyway.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: I got to check. All right. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you know, so now, this is how you do it through. You're trying to not be the sole revenue generator in your practice. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
So, you bring on others who can make money while you're not there or even while you're there, but that brings along some challenges. You have to make sure everyone's happy, good quality work. You get, everyone's getting along. The money makes sense, you know, the overhead, the salaries have that been challenging or what do you think with all the very, you'll learn and grow. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: You know, you're not taught the business of medicine. They teach the business of dentistry and dental school, chiropractors, huge amount of teaching on business medicine. We're not taught the business of medicine, but I learned from my previous practice. I spent a lot of time with the administrator, learn how to do it.
When I went solo, you started small. I built up, you learn how to keep, you do it. And until three years ago, I was not just the owner and principal surgeon, but I was also I'll call myself. I was the office manager. I had office managers. I finally got someone who's so outstanding that she has taken so much off my plate.
I can spend most of my time just operating, seeing patients and leaving and playing golf. And the key is surrounding yourself with good quality staff to attract staff. You know, you go to, you go to all the meetings and you're on the panels at, at, at all the meetings in the, in the no practice management.
And I can't tell you how many panels all witness. How do you, how do you keep staff? I can't hire new staff. Oh, I can't keep staff. Well, you know, when we have someone on staff, basically, most of the time when they leave, they're crying, but not for a bad reason. They're crying because they want, either they're moving, or they got an administrative job elsewhere that's paying double, and they're leaving, but they love working here.
And if you read my reviews, Easily over half my reviews in my surgical patients are about how great the staff is from the phones to the front desk, my office manager, my coordinator, you just got to surround yourself with good people. And you have to create that culture of support for your patients and support for each other and hopefully to perpetuate itself.
I've been, I've been blessed and I've, I've. Able to do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think the game changer can be that office manager, the one that is just excellent because now she's the buffer between you and the staff. Yeah. And you can always be the good guy and you can actually focus on what you do and be in a good mood when you're trying to manage the staff and be the surgeon and be the visionary. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
That's a lot of pressure, and that's, you're not always in a good mood doing that. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Yes, and unfortunately, it's hard to find, but I got lucky. Well, hopefully she stays put.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS Yeah, she's staying put. She doesn't have a choice. Ha ha ha.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What would you say is the biggest challenge of running a cosmetic practice?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, the biggest challenge is really that, that you know, you're by, by the, by the little guys. And, you know, I think I have got a reasonable reputation of practice long enough. And like you said, you have these upstarts who were, who were, you know, eclipsing you in social media and, and trying to take your patients who like have a fraction of the experience, a fraction of the skill, and are trying to, you know, pass themselves off as being these, these, these venerated surgeons.
And it's not just, you know, just doing quality work and deciding when you want to take them on or just. quality work and let that
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I would say the tw in a cosmetic patient's u usually are the reviews a you have plenty of both. of photos into the one ye practice. So, they can't w Don't worry about that little guy, you just keep building up all, like, the problem is, is you, when you've been around for a while, you, you kind of forget about doing the photos and the reviews, you're like, oh, we'll get around to it, and that is your holy grail, you get that proof. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: We still, we still chase it down, and I still ask patients to do, you know, you know, I used to give a talk, and you know, nowadays, people are finally getting better at it, but years ago, say, you know, you want good reviews, ask.
story You know, people are, you know, when someone is unhappy, they're, they're thrilled to go all over the internet bashing you, but when they're happy, they don't go, I love my surgeon, I had a great surgery, and people come and say, oh, there are all these bad things about revision rhinoplasty. No, you only hear about it because tiny majority, minority of patients who are unhappy.
I'll roll over the internet. The ones who are happy, don't spend hours blogging everywhere, how fabulous things are and how world is lovely and their nose is great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, by the way, I want to congratulate you. You have something like 256 reviews at a 4. 8 rating. I know you wish you were a five. I swear to God, it's so much more authentic at 4. 8. And you're absolutely right. They talk about your staff a lot. And I thought that's how you do it. That's how you know, your culture is good and your staff's happy because.
The patients are talking about how great their experience was with you with the result and with the staff. Yeah. Congrats. Are you asking yourself or do you have any kind of a process for reviews and photos? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: I, I ask my post op patients and same thing. And I, I also have Stephanie, my patient coordinator, she, she will also ask, but generally it comes from me.
And you know, and one of the ways, one of the ways they used to get a review is that. It'll be, you know, a year post-op instead of someone say, well, can I use your photos? What I really don't want? Well, I don't want my pictures used. Well, then you've got to gimme a really good review. Yeah. . So, you, Hey, you know what I said, but even if you weren't going to let me use your pictures, if I didn't ask, you should be insulted.
You go home and say, well, you didn't, it wasn't even proud enough to ask me to use the pictures. So, like, not, you sort of mean that's, that's that. I sort of say, well, if you're not, then let me use your pictures and your hat at least give me a good review. And they go, okay, I'll do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's actually a really good tip. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Don't leave empty handed, you know, try for the whole shebang and just work your way down. If you won't give me your photos, give me your reviews. If you won't give me your reviews, can I use your photos in the office? At least, you know, I would just keep asking until you get something out of it. Yeah. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Yeah. So, what's your, I know you're not retiring. You don't look like you should be retiring. You have plenty of life left, but is there any kind of exit strategy down the road? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, exit strategies have changed. It used to be, you know, you, you, you, you sell, you buy, buy or sell a practice for one and a half times a previous year's gross.
That's long gone. With the internet, with social media, on the medical side, with, with insurance plans, with in network, out of network with hospitals and groups buying up positions, There's very little left in a practice when you can down people retire and they're lucky if they get, you know, get cab fare for their for their for their charts, you know, so what is the potential as a strategy is private equity.
It's a slippery slope because you want to find the group that will treat you well, that will respect you and respect your practice after you after you sell. It's something I've looked into. I've talked to a couple people some things that I'm potentially considering because if I wait 10 years, which when I may consider starting to retire, it may be too late.
You know, the, the, the, they, they don't want you with, they don't want to buy you out if you're leaving right away, unless you're like a med spa, the med spas, those still big. Parliaments without Surgery is about Parliament and the culture I've created. So, now that I have at least a good 10 years left in practice.
I'm saleable, so instead of getting my buyout in 10 years, I get the buyout now. It's a matter of finding the right situation, the right people, and finding out, is this something that I really want to do, and is it going to be the best thing for me, my practice, and my family? But it, I never would have entertained it a year ago, but conversing, having conversations with a lot of people, I, I find this something which is, is attractive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Would you, because they want that earn out, they want you to stay put for 3, 5, 10 years. But have you thought about that? Like, could you let go of the reins and let somebody else call the shots? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: For the right situation. Right situation. And there's some situations that will actually let you still call most of the shots.
You know, some, some you hear about, you know, They all come in and they want to like, you know, go through your staff, they start cutting salaries, you can't buy a pencil, you know, I would never go to a group like that, but there are. Situations that are now arising, really realizing you want a high-quality surgeon, you have to match their environment and maintain their environment, which got them there.
In order to keep that reputation up, which will keep the money falling into the practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's still very new, so it's very exciting. And personally, if I were going to do it, I'd do it sooner rather than later. Yeah. Because as some of them fail, and most will, because that's just the way business is, it won't be as sexy as it is at the moment. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Yeah. No. Yeah. Who knows, you know. Yeah. But let's go back to marketing because that's actually a very big part of your exit strategy. You're trying to build a practice now. way more than just facial plastics. We have facial plastics, plastics, non-surgical hair restoration. And the issue with that is now your, your target market is everybody, you know, it's all gender, all ethnicities, all of it.
That's not easy to market to without a bucket load of money. So, how are you handling that attracting the right patients to keep all these service providers busy? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: It isn't, it isn't cheap, but you just have to make sure you have you know, good, you know, tracking, you want to track all your expenses and find out what works and what doesn't work.
You know, as I spent a lot more on marketing now than I used to spend, but there was a time when I was spending a lot of money on PR, but that was my only marketing money. Now I'm spending more than that probably on, you know, internet and, and, and social media combined. But that's, that's what it takes.
There's only, there's only a very small minority of people who... Have thrived on just their surgical reputation alone, and they're getting fewer and far between also and have a nice environment. I mean, to go back to some we talked about in the beginning is, you know, I had a nice office that was in from 2000 and then about after I took that set that scene on, I had a nurse injector in 2000 square foot office, too crowded for two physicians and nurse injectors.
So, I started looking and I went from 2000 to almost 5000 square feet around the corner. And so, I now have, you know, have you know, two physician's offices. I have a consultation room for my coordinator. I have five exam rooms, a laser room, OR, tubular recovery, a separate recovery room for surgical families, which is, which is a very important idea.
Can I being the third office I built the second with an OR. I learned what it takes, and it also worked beautifully for COVID because the, the flow, patients could go in a single direction and never have to cross paths with another patient. So, it, it, it's really well designed. I was, you know, I'm a great architect, but I was very hands on with, with the plan and design and got this working.
And there's literally almost nothing I changed from what I did. I moved here in 2019. So, it'd be, it was just four years that I'm here. Are you, you're glad you made the change? Absolutely. I mean, it was not wasn't cheap, but it took you get to the next level. And most of the time people when you build an office, you always want it bigger than what you have because you're going to grow into it.
You know, you talk to anybody started in practice, they're scrapping and scraping to get a small office and then within no time they outgrow it. So, you want to have room to grow. And if you know you're doing quality work, you're going to fill it, you know, you know, if you build it, they will come, you feel the dreams, you know, but it's true.
And I don't know anybody who has ever regretted going to be, you know, not the same as Ed Williams or Mike Nyack, but, but they're, they're the outliers. I'm talking about doing this just for my practice and people work for me. I'm not looking to have numerous other doctors renting and buying and working in my space.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For those of you who don't know, Ed Williams, I used to do some marketing consulting with him. We would, we would teach the doctors the business and marketing side of surgery. And Ed Williams has five physicians five profit centers, 75 staff at this point. And it was 22, 000 square feet. And he was just floating this big boat.
And most of the surgeons don't want to do that. That's why he's an outlier. Yeah.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Oh, right, right. But to me, 5,000 is plenty. In New York City, it's, it's equal to 12 outside of New York City.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the Taj Mahal in New York City. Yeah. It's not just in New York. You're off of Park Avenue. Holy cow. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Yeah, yeah.
It's a nice space. It cost it, but, but you know, it, it's worth it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How much cachet do you get from having that kind of an address? Has that played any part in this? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, I, it, I know it's cachet, but it's almost like... Yeah, it's just the way it's supposed to be, you know New York is supposed to be on or on or near Park Avenue.
And that's just, you know, I know people have offices on 3rd Avenue. Oh, it's Park Avenue. It's too two blocks apart. No, it's right off the park, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great. So, the social media, here's what I'm learning and you've already said it. The websites used to be the end all be all and get put all your money in SEO. Then Google decided you can't be an international search and you have to be a surgeon in your zip code kind of thing. So, they really strangled the reach that you can go for and I think that's why everyone turned to social media because now you have a huge reach. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Do you find that, are you, are you, do you have a lot of out of towners? And if you do, is it because of social media or how are they finding you? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: My out of towners are mainly for revision rhinoplasty. I always, I've had a cashman for that for a long time. I don't know if it's from social media or the website.
I think it's more web still website related, not social media. Maybe because my, my, you know, my website has had good positioning. I, for so long, I've always been near the top of the first page there for a glitch back in in 2020 that I dropped, but then, you know, we, that was fixed and I, and worked my way back up again.
I, I can't say is it because of my marketing or my reputation or my skills, but I think it all, it all sort of blends together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But do, would you say, I did see you on TikTok? I did. I was sur surprised. You're not, you're not dancing, but you're busy. You know, has that been, I assume you're going for the rhino patients on tick tock and then maybe Instagram and the website are more for the more mature. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Do you find that is, is that the game plan? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, again, I will unlikely tell you, you have to do different videos for tick tock versus Instagram. I'll do one video and they'll put it on multiple. And so, if it, if it catches on tick tock fine, if not, not, you know, I'm not, I don't specifically gear videos towards tick tock because they know I'm not.
You know, I'm not juggling noses or juggling, you know osteotomes and the OR because that's what you're supposed to do. You know, I'll say breast implant, but I don't do breasts, you know, but I'm not, I'm not doing that, which is what people want to see on TikTok, supposedly, but you know, I'll just do something a little more quality, a little more educational and again, as I said, before and afterβs.
Which is the most important thing was you said it was the article I just read in the in the aesthetic surgery journal about again, before and afterβs is the number one thing people looking for. Unfortunately, the quality of the before and afterβs is not what it should be. How many of the before and afterβs before is, is a patient has no makeup with poor lighting and the after they're covered in makeup doing a beauty shoot.
And of course, they're going to look fabulous, but that's, you know, I want to see serial real before and afterβs with the same lighting, the same background, same amount of makeup. And that's it. That's where, I'm not saying surgeons are falsifying or modifying their actors when they're slathered in makeup and lighting is different.
The background is different. There's just the way they look is different. It's the clothes are different. It's a lot. It's not as accurate as having a good quality before and after on your website, which should be, you know, equal, equal lighting and backgrounds.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say from a marketing perspective, I would do both.
I would. The patient, the way she wants to be seen out in the world. Like you can do those photo shoots on park Avenue. Like, like that's how she is up and running. But in the corner, I would also have her before and after photos, just like the medical ones, but I'm doing it. Patients love to see like the end result, like the end result, like now back up and love and life. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: You know, you're right.
Yeah, just take that for what it is. That's one way of doing it, put it in the corner so you say, Hey, we have that, and go to the website, we have the real before and afterβs, not just the glamour shot.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, but I think the glamour shot super helpful to, you know you had a really good video, by the way, it was a patient journey and she was also walking down the street. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
And do you remember that? I don't think you have it up anymore, but I love that. I, people want to, we, we patients want to see people in their real lives, you know, doing their real thing before and after, you know, so do you still have that? Cause that was actually β
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: We do. We just, we sort of rotate videos in, you know, and yeah.
And to answer another question you haven't asked yet is, is that we do social media in house.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, that's a good point. Like, I was going to ask you how much time do you spend on it, and who doesn't? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: So, I've used agencies, I've used companies, and, and there's some very good ones. And I'm not saying they're not, they're, they're all they'll just take your money, but they don't know your voice.
And when someone is in house... They know your voice. They know what you say. They can run down the hall, grab you in the morning and say something to the camera. They get an idea of what, you know, what you can joke about, what you don't joke about. And it's better to show your practice. When they, when they work for you?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I couldn't agree more. I think you have to have the roving reporter. I say it all the time. You need the roving reporter in the office because that's what makes it so authentic and transparent. And you don't have to be a, a superstar. You all, you just be you and let something capture that, you know? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Right. Yeah. Good job on that though. How much time are you spending on social? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Not a lot. Yeah, everyone wants to know if I'm like if I travel or doing something about something fun. I'll quickly upload a photo or video to my stories, but I try. I don't want to spend any of my time doing that. The only drawback is that is that now that my daughters are teenagers.
I can't do any family photos anymore because their friends follow me and I'm not allowed to show their pictures unless I get permission.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's so right. Oh, boy.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: People say, Oh, I love seeing your family pictures. Why don't you post more? Of course, I can't. I'm not allowed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, my God. It's so funny.
Although they must see you on TikTok, right? Not much. No, they're more I don't know what the, what the, what they do. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
I will say though, the, the young guys who think they're going to hit the ground running at one or two years. I must say the ones who are the anomalies that are I just had him on a couple of weeks ago. He's spending 30 hours a week doing it.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Right. Yeah, it's full-time job.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's, it's going to take time or money.
Pick one, you know? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, just knowing what's happening in today's world, like just let's talk about the patients for a second. Have you noticed any trends in patient desires, patient expectations? Has that become more challenging? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: I think patients are being more demanding. And because of that.
Now, I, I, I do minimally invasive treatments, do face tight, we have Ulthera, I have my Elevate for next, and I'm talking to patients less and less about those things because people really want the results of a facelift without a facelift. The answer is you're not going to get a facelift result without a facelift.
Ulthera will give you 20 percent of the result. Face tight, 25 to 30 percent and Morpheus, 35 percent my elevate may help under here, but it was nothing for the jowls and this is not, if you have a big floppy neck, it'll be a smaller floppy neck. But if really people want the surgical results without surgery and that does not exist.
So, I'm, I'm tending more towards recommending the facelifts and the surgeries. Where I was trying to push on minimally invasive treatments, thinking, A, they'll accept less for less money, but they don't want to accept less. They want, want the best, want the ultimate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And that social media created a lot of that, the, the crazy expectations.
The I want no downtime, but I want a transformation. And yeah, you'll, that you'll always have to combat that, you know, somehow some way. But so just to wrap it up now, tell us something interesting about you that we don't know. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Oh, well, I, I'm not sure what, what I could tell you here other than, other than that for, until I was out of college, I was pretty shy.
So, people think I'm pretty outgoing and yeah, you don't seem shy. President of the Facial Plastics Academy, President of the New York Academy, starting it, New York Facial Plastics Academy, I was, I was very shy. So, it's like, I think I've been making up for it ever since.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Cause I've known you for a long time.
I will tell you; you win for the most incredible shoe collection I've ever seen with socks as well. When did that happen? Cause you really are well known for that. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: I like dressing well. And, and despite what people think, I actually dress myself. I buy my own suits. So, actually one of my closest friends is, is a As a men's clothing store, all my suits are made to measure.
So, I'll pick the fabrics from all the best, you know, suit makers, and he'll make me my suits sport jackets. I go, you know, high end fashion stuff. And I don't know. I like to dress well. Nothing wrong with looking good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. You always are like the most put together. Like all the details. I seriously thought your wife was handling that.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Nope. Nope. She, she, she stays out of that. She controls everything else, but then the clothes she stays out of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's really interesting because you really are a sharp dapper dresser or you're dapper, right? I haven't, yeah, I haven't said that word in a long time. And you also have fancy socks, right? How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Yes, well, I've been wearing, I've been wearing, before, now they never wear them, but I, I don't know where I got it from, but I started, you know, I started wearing, wearing bright socks, long before they, before they were trendy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're bringing out your colorful crazy side, I guess.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Oh yeah, there's no way expressing myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? All right. Well, thank you, Dr. Pearlman. It's a pleasure to see you. I'm sure I'll see you at a conference coming up soon. And if anybody wanted to get ahold of you, your website is MDFace.Com.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Right. Absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there any other way they should get a hold of you?
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Well, there's info@mdface.com go right to my office.
If it's, you know, physicians drpearlman@mdface.Com. Gotcha. You know, Instagram is @PearlmanAestheticSurgery. And I, I, messages on Instagram, I'm the one to get those. I, I check those off and my own emails.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That was a good move too. You, you went to Pearlman Aesthetic Surgery to kind of Open this up the umbrella up to more than just face. How did or does this impact or relate to your choice to double down instead of slow down?
So, that was a good. Right? Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: Thanks for having me. Sorry it took so long. Get me on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right.
Steven J. Pearlman, MD, FACS: And the book that I wrote the foreword to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. Dr. Pearlman wrote the foreword to my book. I, I had to get a hold of him. I would call his office.
This is years ago. I was trying to get a foreword because he has a really big name and I really was hoping he would give me the foreword. And I would call his office at six in the morning out at my... My place could to get ahold of him because I was, I would call a little early to see if he would pick up the phone.
And he picked up one day and he said, aren't you in California? And I said, yeah. And he said, is it six in the morning? I said, yes, I really want to talk to you. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on whether to slow down or double down.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Pearlman you can reach out to his website at, MDFace.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Pearlman for sharing the experience on his choice to double down instead of slow down.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βSlow Down or Double Down β with Steven J. Pearlman, MDβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to stay busy without advertising.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Busy Without Advertising β with Scott R. Miller, MD".
On average, the βexpertsβ say a plastic surgeon should spend 6β12% of their annual revenues on marketing to include advertising, Website/SEO and content creation.
For example, if you are a $1,000,000 practice, your average advertising spend of 9% would equal $90,000 per year or $7,500 per month.
Of course, that doesnβt take into account what advertising stage you are at. Because there is a big difference in ad budgets if you are getting a new practice off the ground, or a 10-year-old practice ready to uplevel, or a busy and mature practice with an established track record and reputation.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest was with Dr. Scott Miller, a board-certified plastic surgeon who has run his solo practice in gorgeous LA Jolla, CA for the past 27 years. He also manages to keep busy without advertising.
We talked about how he grew up in Las Vegas playing tennis and then found his way to medicine, and then to LA Jolla.
He laid out how he has kept the majority of his staff for over 10 years, and how he runs a busy practice without advertising, even though heβs in a very competitive area.
Hereβs a hint for his success: Heβs thinking about his patients above all else ;-)
Visit Dr. Miller's website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you! Click below:
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Transcript:
Busy Without Advertising β with Scott R. Miller, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: β
Hello everyone and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to stay busy without advertising. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's special guest I've known for a long time, it's Dr. Scott Miller, who manages to stay busy without advertising. He's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in solo practice located in absolutely gorgeous La Jolla, California. and he's been practicing there for the past 27 years. Now, Dr. Miller, who keeps busy without advertising, teaches courses on plastic surgery, instructing surgeons in endoscopic techniques, and advanced concepts in facial rejuvenation and enhancement.
Now, he acts as an attending surgeon at Scripps Memorial Hospital in La Jolla, and is a voluntary clinical instructor of plastic surgery at the University of California, San Diego. Dr. Miller speaks at medical conferences and has authored multiple textbook chapters on facelift advancements, along with other numerous medical articles.
Dr. Miller, thank you for showing up on "Beauty and the Biz". It's a pleasure to have you.
Scott R. Miller, MD: Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I'm glad we finally figured this out. So, tell me something. I happen to know you're from Las Vegas. How did you get from Las Vegas to absolutely gorgeous? For those of you who don't know La Jolla, California, it is the highest end, the most breathtaking views I've ever seen. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
The weather is magnificent. It's, it's San Diego, but it's just a really prime area of, well, what makes La Jolla so special? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah. I mean, I think you hit on it. I think for me, it has. It has the benefits of being its own town with its own identity with its own character And yet it's got like everything you'd want in a bigger town So, you have you have sort of a small-town big town at the same time, right?
You know you go out and you see friends and you walk around and you see people, you know And yet at the same time you have access to the
You have a civic identity, which is really important to me. I spent some time in Orange County, and I just didn't feel that so with all respect to my friends and colleagues in Orange County so, yeah, I just love San Diego, not to mention, you know, the weather's a gimme. You know if you're going to work hard and you want to be able to work hard, play hard, then you have to have the weather to allow you to do so.
And so, it's nice to not. I haven't checked the weather in 20 years. So, just plan on it. And on the occasion, we're disappointed, but for the most part it's reliable and we can plan what we want to do, which is really helpful when you're working hard and have the occasional day off. I want to take advantage of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, for sure. So, how do you get to La Jolla from Las Vegas? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, so I mean, it's, you know, for me, the first of my life's broken up into, I guess I'm getting older now, so it's 1 3rd 2 3rd instead of half and half, but the first, the first chunk of my life was pretty dominated by tennis. So, I was a tennis player.
Tennis was what I did. I was at all the hotels. I go from one. I play two or three sets. I get somebody and I get to another hotel and play two or three sets against somebody. So, that was most of my youth. And then you know, we were going vacation to California. And of course, anybody who's. Not from California when you're on vacation to California, you're like, it's like the beach, the beach.
So, it was always such a pleasant thing. So, when it was time to pick a school and go through recruitment and whatnot you know, the California schools had a big advantage when it came to my choices. So, I went to UC Irvine for college. And yeah, it's funny because I started out making fun of all my friends from California who acted like there was no other place to live in California.
I'm like, California is great, but there's a whole world out there. And then I did college and then I went to medical school at UCI because you know, the known is Sort of better than the unknown. Sometimes there's good medical school. They wanted me and worked out pretty well. And then I stayed there for internship and resident residency.
And at some point, along the line, when it came time to decide where you're going to put your stake in the ground and have your practice, you, you kind of looked up and realized I'd become one of them. And I really do love California. I love all it has to offer again, whether it's conveniences or people or population, it's just a really convenient, fun place to be.
It's been a great place to raise a family.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Well, you picked the right place. So, what was your jump from fellowship to solo? Was there a journey there or did you go straight, straight into solo? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: So, you know, it's a little bit interesting and I'll save you the longer convoluted tale, but I really tried hard when I was finishing up my plastic surgery fellowship.
To have an open mind. And, you know, I did not want to be closed minded. I wanted to look at all opportunities. Again, I wasn't originally from California, so I want to keep an open mind. And then I then did a fellowship with Bruce Connell. And during that year with Bruce, I think what happens is you.
You learn a lot. You also gain a tremendous amount of confidence in what you can deliver and knowing what you can deliver and the level at which it's at. And between those two things, I sort of stopped looking for opportunities and started just deciding where I wanted to be. And that's, so then that's kind of when I finished my year with Dr.
Connell. I had actually inadvertently started building a practice. It wasn't my intent. I was just doing some cases on the side and, and, you know, doing cases that, that he referred to me during the fellowship and doing cases as a clinical faculty at UCR, I mean, UCSD. And so between, cause I was driving back and forth from Orange County where he was and San Diego.
And so, I sort of inadvertently, you know, I had people just. Calling me on a pager. I mean, it's not the way a normal person starts a practice, but I had people calling me on a pager and saying, Hey, you know, this is Tracy. My friend Holly said you're the one to go to. How do I get a consult? So, it was a very sort of ramshackle, unofficial start to a practice.
But then once I finished, I said, okay, this is where I'm going to be. And what I quickly found out is that it's all about the patients. It's not about having the Taj Mahal of offices. It's about the patients. And if you have the patients, you can find the space. So, I had a reasonable flow of, you know, calls and consults and cases.
So, I had no shortage of people who were happy to let me use their facility and do my cases out of their surgery center. And then from there, shared space for a couple of years. With someone. And then that worked out well, but they were going to stay in practice and I think we both wanted to be solo. So, kind of around 2000 two, decided to kind of like take my own shingle.
It was always, I always had my own practice. It was just a matter of whether I was sharing space. And then in 2002 is when I moved into my own facility.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And but you stayed in the Scripps office building, right? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, yeah, I've been ever since I finished fellowship. Like I said, I shared space here and then kind of moved into my own space and it was amicable because originally that person was going to retire and then and I was going to take over and then they decided they didn't want to retire and we both.
Preferred to be in solo practice and had sort of a patient flow to where that was reasonable. I run a, I run, and so did he, a fairly lean practice. So, the, the pressures to share space and staff weren't as strong as they might be in more of a high maintenance type of practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And then what, how do you feel about being in the building? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Looking back now, do you wish you bought your own place with your name on the building where thousands of cars see you? Do you have a feeling for that? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, I, well, I think I do. I mean, I think from a business standpoint, I absolutely, I, and I knew that then, so I can't claim ignorance. But if you have to look at the community, you're in and what buildings are available in order to do that, I'm right here in the La Jolla University town center area.
I get patients from Orange County. I get patients from, you know, deep south into San Diego. I get patients from east and obviously we have people flying in as well. So, I can go. My catch area if you want is so wide that it would be really hard For me to be in a difficult to access area. And so, or at least it seemed that case, the places where you could buy five, 10, 15, 20, even 20, 000 square foot buildings were not the places that I thought I should be.
And so, I just made the decision like that, that wasn't worth it. I wanted to optimize the practice situation, particularly early on. You can imagine rather than have this great. Office building and business proposition, but not be accessible or whatnot. So, yeah, the buildings where I am are all.
You know, 80, 000 square feet and up. And that just wasn't a practical thing to, to work towards. But I think that's a great idea. So, I would never negate that for anybody. Like I said, to me, the other thing you have to do is look at your community. So, I have a lot of friends in L. A. and L. A. is really different.
In L. A., people go, are you on Rodeo or Spalding or Bedford, right? That's L. A. In, in San Diego, people kind of say, oh, are you. With, with or by Scripps or Sharp or UCSD. So, I was on clinical faculty at UCSD. Their hospital is right next door. I've been attending at Scripps. I'm on the campus of Scripps. And that just made for a much easier identity.
Again, particularly early in practice. At this point, it probably doesn't matter. But at this point, I'm also set and settled, so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'll bet there's a lot of cachet to the name Scripps. And everyone knows where it is. And it was probably a really good play on your part. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Exactly. It's just, and again, in our community, you know, I had, I had young, you know, young kids when I was starting out, and all you have to do is go to a four-year old's birthday party, and you'll find out right away what people are looking for because they ask you, you know, like I said, they ask you, oh, oh, are you with Scripps or UCSD or Sharp or something?
That's the question we get here. Again, I think the question is different in L. A., different in Orange County, and probably different all over the country, so I think you have to know kind of your community as well. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And then regarding reconstructive versus cosmetic, did you jump right into cosmetic? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Were you doing half and half? And what do you do now? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: I do pretty much exclusively cosmetic with the exception of a variety of dermatologists that when, when they make a hole, that's kind of beyond their capacity. And as long as patients, we don't do any third-party billing. So, as long as the patients are okay with that, and we have a reasonable population here that, that is okay with that.
So, I'll help them out in those cases. But other pretty much we do exclusively. Cosmetic surgery. And you know, while that was always my, obviously I did a fellowship for a year with Bruce Cannell, I didn't do that so I could do free flaps. So, I had an open mind starting practice on sort of whatever it takes and, and definitely willing to hustle.
But that was always my dream and it actually came to fruition much quicker than I expected. Because of variety of circumstances. As I said, when I finished the fellowship, I sort of found myself in practice. Well, I found myself in practice as I was still waiting to get hospital privileges. So, I was doing cases out of surgery centers and office-based surgery centers while I was still waiting for that.
So, by the time all that came through, I had developed, you know, inadvertently a pretty decent aesthetic practice. And at that point you It doesn't. I took some call early on just again to hustle and to be available. I worked a half day at a wound care center, but at some point, you have to say that it's not fair to your 7 a.
- case patient to be up at 2 a. m. doing a facial fracture. And so, and there's a lot of people who need the other work. To get going. So, leave that to them and you do what you're best cut out to do and that you prefer to do probably. Exactly. I think if you stay in your sweet spot of what you're good at and what you enjoy better things are going to happen for both you and the patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, the challenge with a plastic surgeon is you were very heavily trained on face and body . Yes. So, You, I, when you were, when I knew you, oh my God, I've known you for 20 years or something, but you, you, I felt like you were more body. As I've watched your career, it feels like it's moving more towards face. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Was it always like that? And I just didn't notice it or how, what's happening with that face versus body? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah. I mean, my passion was always facial aesthetic surgery because I think it's the, in my feeling is that it's the pinnacle of our art. It's the most precise. I think if you could do that well. You can carry that over to the other venues of breast and body.
I don't know that it always goes the other way. I'm sure I'd get some pushback on that, but that's how I feel for me. So, for me you know, at the same time when you start practice, look, most people's first bunch of patients are going to be the patients their age or around their age. So, I'd say my practice was sort of 50 50 starting out, which is, I think, unusual when you're 34, 35, 36.
And then, but over the years that the face parts gone up and up and up both by natural referrals as well as by inclination. And then I would say in the last decade, we've been very, very intentional about that because again, that's what I want to do the most. And if I've got calls for both, why wouldn't I book more of what I want to do?
And I think what happens is the more you do of that, the more your office is cut out for that, the more your office and staff and system is tailored for that. And it goes the other way too, you know, so if you're doing a ton of big body cases, you probably have all the systems and, and, and protocols and everything set up for that.
So, this just works best for us. It works best for our patients. 85 percent now. I mean the breast cases, the body cases I do are just because I'm doing something else. It's either a previous patient or I'm doing something else and they want it done at the same time. And the breast cases I'm pretty selective for, you know, I just honestly try to do things that I enjoy and that I know I can hit a home run.
And if I don't think it's one of those two, there's plenty of people out there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I didn't know it was even that much. That's amazing. And I just think that's so logical. As you get older, you decide or you, you have preferences. And it's like, why, why kill yourself doing 10 procedures, you know, little procedures versus like two or three really good facelifts a week or a month. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
I mean that, God, that just makes a lot of sense to me. If you can pull that off, you're just, you're working smarter and less hard. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Exactly. And I know that there's other people who say, who find, you know, find from a business perspective, you know, oh no, knock out five breast dogs and that's great if that's their thing for us.
And I enjoy doing, still doing, you know, straightforward breast augmentations. But for me, I enjoy, you know, surgeons like to do surgery that, so I enjoy coming in and getting settled in, in the OR and having one or two really juicy cases that appeal to me and that. That I enjoy. It's just an efficient practice for us.
You know, there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of changing for post ops because it's your base. We've got it kind of down, like I said, just as if a breast or body focused practice probably would as well. But for us we feel really comfortable with what we produce. We have a pretty good price point.
And so, it all works together to make a practice that's just incredibly satisfying for me and for my patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I call the facelift patient the long tail patient because if you have one of them, they're obviously a more mature, usually financially, you know, sound and they care about your skill and expertise. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
They are not shopping around for the cheapest or shopping around for the best. And the first thing people do, especially in your kind of area. They don't go online. They talk to each other. Who did you go to? You know, who you, who's the guy to go to? They can be your absolute automatic marketing machine. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
So, I love where you're going with that. It just makes your life a lot easier. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: I think you're absolutely right. And I think that's partly too, is I don't want to be, I'm not. I enjoy my patients. So, as much as I said, I enjoy surgery, which I do. I enjoy my patients. I enjoy seeing people. I'm an extrovert.
People energize me. I enjoy the give and take with my patients. They give me a vacation and restaurant recommendations. And you know, I really enjoy the dialogue back and forth. So, I enjoy having relatively sophisticated, intelligent, bright, fun, funny people as patients that I interact with. I mean, I interact with my patients and my staff is a patient.
huge chunk of my life. And so, I want to enjoy that. So, I don't, I'm not trying to be sort of the surgeon who walks in and walks out and doesn't take questions and doesn't want to discuss things and stuff like that. So, that clientele really lends itself to that, the face clientele.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, you mentioned that you have a lean machine there. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
What is it made up of? Because oftentimes, when you go facial, or like, concentrate on that, sometimes you want to also do the non-surgical to develop that relationship. So, when they are ready for surgery, they choose you. What's your feeling on that? And if so, then do you need to bring on some other staff who can handle that and be revenue generators? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
How did you set that up? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, I mean, I think there's different paradigms and again, not to judge anybody else's paradigm, but you know, I, I didn't, I don't have an MPA. I didn't, I didn't go to business school. I didn't take any extra courses. I just try to be smart and reasonable. And I did early in my career do a lot of reading of adjacent and ancillary fields.
To try to gather as much as I could. Books like yours weren't out then, and there wasn't a lot of, you know, I had to read, I read some of the dental literature actually had much better stuff at the time. And just general business stuff. So, and then I had to sort of extrapolate on what, how that would mean to plastic surgery.
But the bottom line is, you know, I have six. Full time employees and then three anesthesiologists that rotate through our surgery center and that's enough for me, right? So, I'm not I hold no illusions that I could be managed 25 people and so I try to keep it relatively lean and simple I think we're really lucky in what we do is we have a reasonably healthy margin in what we do And so I really don't need to then try to make an extra 10 In nickels and dimes and dollars when I have when that means making my machine much more complicated and more difficult to run if it means I'm going to sit in the office for an extra half a day, right, or more doing administrative duties because I'm running this big machine so that I can what have a 10 percent bigger gross and that's gross, you know, then you then you have overhead and then you have taxes.
It just doesn't to me. I'd rather have the extra, you know, half day off and I do So, so that to me is kind of how I've kind of made it work for to have a good, I don't really like work life balance. Work life integration is a better way to put it, especially when you're in solo practice, you know, you know, it's just, I live 10 minutes away and you know, it's, it's just, it just makes me unable to not feel like I'm missing out on anything with the kids or the family or the social life.
And at the same time, commit fully to my patients and my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hope everyone caught what you just said, a 10-minute commute. I would recommend keeping your commute as simple as possible. There's too much more you have going on to become a successful plastic surgeon. Your commute should not be part of the aggravation. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: No, exactly. Exactly. I mean, you know, I say sometimes if you want to wind down, you can sit in the car an extra five minutes if you want, but, but who needs to sit in traffic or lose 30 minutes of your day. Each way gets to and from work. I mean, I just think that, and, and when you, you know, I just can't tell you the conveniences of being, being so close to the office, being able to pop back and pop in.
I mean, yesterday I finished my case a little early, ran home for an hour, hour and a half, and then came back because I had patients starting at two. So, you know, you just can't, I couldn't do that if I. I lived in the valley and had an office in Beverly Hills. So, for example,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Traffic in California, dear lord.
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, yeah. So, again San Diego, we, you know we have rush hour traffic still, you know, as California, but we don't have too bad of off hour, you know, traffic. So, that's kind of nice. And I mean, there are, I'm sure people come here from other parts of the country and think we have horrible traffic, but if you go a little north of here, you see it gets significantly worse.
So, yeah, we're really fortunate that way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know anybody who's been to, I'm in Northern California, so whenever I'm in Southern California, everyone knows the horrendous trip between San Diego and L. A., you know? Everyone's done that, and as a tourist, you're like, oh, how long can that take? Oh, it can take a long time. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: It can take hours and hours. Well, my kids, you know, obviously, I had three kids, and they all participated in all kinds of activities, sports, and other things. And the number of times I've driven back and forth, mostly to Orange County, occasionally to L. A. and Pasadena. The crazy thing is... If you pick the right time, it could take an hour, hour and a half.
That's the crazy part. But if you pick the wrong time, it could take four and a half hours. So, you get a little strategic with that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, back to staff. Does your staff appreciate that they have Fridays off? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, I think they do. I hope they do that. There's always a little hedonistic, hedonistic adaptation.
So, they probably appreciate it in theory, but then get kind of used to it. But yeah, I think yeah, I mean, I think they do on the whole. I think I have a really great dedicated staff. We're all on the same page of Not trying to we don't try to melt the practice of the patients. We're here to serve Obviously you have to set up a paradigm where that keeps you in business, right?
You can't you I don't want to be too, act too altruistic about the whole thing. It's a business but on the other hand, If you set up the right you can really focus on t why I went into medicine You can really focus on the patient care, and for the lack of a better⦠Less can just happen because you're right in the right way and for the right reasons.
And I think I have a staff that's all-in kind of lockstep with that, including their lives. So, yeah, I think they do appreciate that. They have a weekday to sort of get things done. All the things that we all need to do in our lives. I know. And I don't think we do any. Less, we just make us more efficient on the other days.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I have never heard of this before, quite frankly. Usually, the doctor will take the Friday off, but the staff still has to work, you know? That's a really, that's a really big perk that you're offering there, especially in San Diego. Like right now, today we're doing this on a Friday, and I'm, they have to be appreciating this, I hope they are. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Nobody else is doing that. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think it comes with the commitment to, you know, we see patients on Thursdays and, and tuck them in. You know, you have to, you have to plan your week and get everyone tucked in and, and then, you know, I try to call all the patients on Friday too and just make sure everything's so, I guess in that way it falls a little bit on me to kind of check in with the patients.
But I think I appreciate knowing they're all tucked in and they appreciate the, the call. And so, I kind of make, I give myself. You know, per some of your systems, I give myself. That's my job. So, I actually get a list of all the patients for the week and I call them all on a Friday or Saturday and make sure they're all checked in doing well and get make a note on it.
And then we look back at the end of the month and just like all the employees have their jobs and we look at whether they check, check, check, miss that one, check 80%, 90 percent completion, whatever. And so, I get it. in our little group meeting one of my kind of key roles I would say, because we f does make people rea of them.
And we're really is like going on a trip w and you don't do it unless you're committed. And once you do it, you're committed. So, we really, you know, there are interests are very much aligned with our patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I guarantee those patients are paying you back with reviews and testimonials and word of mouth referrals. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
No, no surgeon usually It is making those phone calls. They just they make them the first year or two and then it's delegated to staff or some nurse. And I know that makes a huge difference. So, and you probably know that, right? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, I mean, we've gotten the feedback that it does. And it also helps with my staff too, because, you know, you kind of have to walk the walk, right?
You can't, you can't tell them how important patient care and how important all these different areas are, while you kind of. Blow everybody off and go along their own way. So, so it's a, it helps with them to set a better example.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, absolutely. So, all in all, what would you say is the biggest challenge of running a solo practice? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: I think it's just, it's the main thing is you know, I would say, what's the biggest challenge? That's a good question because I think that number one, I'm comfortable being available. You have to be comfortable being available. Now I have great colleagues in town and I have great relationship with them.
And it helps that I don't try to do everything on everyone. So, you know, I don't have, I don't look at it as a competition. You know, obviously, if, if you do a great job on a patient, that patient's going to likely refer people to you, but more importantly, that patient's going to feel great about plastic surgery and have good things to say.
And some of that's going to trickle to everybody around you. So, I think that, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships. And so, there's a number of other colleagues that I have a great amount of respect for. And so, I have people who will do me favors and everything, but I try not to call on that. And I take first call.
Unless I'm out of the time zone, in which case I have a nurse who takes first call and then she would call me. And I only call colleagues if I really have to. We also arrange the surgery schedule when we're going out of town to try to accommodate for that. So, we would be very unlikely which it is anyway again, because of the way we tuck them in.
So, but I do think that just. Having that phone with you all the time, you know, being available used to say major announced phone, right? But that's probably the biggest thing you know financially fortunately for me hasn't been an issue because we've had a pretty thriving practice So, it's never been that close to the bone where that's been the issue, you know I also don't live beyond my means and I think that's one really good piece of advice I got from a senior plastic surgeon when I was starting out in practice, you know is you if you live Within and even a little under your means.
Then you'll, you'll set yourself up to make better decisions, both for yourself and for your patients. And so, I've never had a situation where either professionally or personally, I would have things cut that close to the bone that I felt I had to do anything I didn't want to do. So, so that hasn't really been a big issue, although I think it could be.
The other thing is just being, you know, I love the autonomy. But at the same time, you do get sometimes decisions. You know, sometimes you're just like, Oh, can't something just take care of itself, you know, but no, but at the same time, I have to admit, that's why I couldn't manage, you know, 24 people or 25 people because I am a micromanager and I accept that in myself.
I've tried to get better at delegating and I've got some great people to do that. But, you know, I want to have a say on the paint color and I want to check the new faucets that we put in. And that's just who I am. And that's okay. But I think that could be a burden for some people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, βknow thyselfβ, as they say.
Scott R. Miller, MD: Exactly, exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, so you've been in practice 27 years. Have you been thinking about an exit strategy? What are your thoughts about that? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, I know it's interesting. So, I have thought about that a lot. I try to think ahead. I try to, I try to think ahead. I try to look for opportunities, but I try to look for the opportunities that, and this is off the topic, but I try to look for opportunities that.
That somebody's not doing not the ones that everybody's already done. Okay, but so on that same token, you know, of course, I look ahead and I kind of go, okay, what's the plan? You know, what's the plan 10 years out? What does that mean? I want to do five years out reverse engineering. You know, a couple years ago, I had a friend who he had been in the military.
So, he's a little late starting in practice. And then he had some health challenges. And he was revamping his whole practice, renaming it, getting his name off a bit, genericizing it adding all the med spa components to it. And his goal was really to create something that was a little more transferable, right?
So, that he had something he realized he felt like he didn't have enough of value to leave if something happened to him or if he wanted to retire. So, I talked to a couple of people I know and friends and whatnot, and I kind of evaluated, is this something I should be doing, right? I think you always want to be humble and teachable.
And, and so I looked at that. What I came up with, again, for me, is that I could invest a ton of money up front, and a ton of time, and a ton of stress, trying to sort of... Revamp, restructure, remodel our practice and create something more sellable, quote unquote, versus you know, I'm fortunate enough to have plenty of cases.
Like I said, I don't work Fridays. So, and I, and I still don't, don't want to, but like, if I really versus, you know, throw on a breast auger every Friday morning. And put that in a separate account. And then somebody else said this, I didn't think of this, but he said, throw on a breast auger every Friday morning or Thursday afternoon, put that in a separate account.
And then, you know, 20 years from now, just lock the door on the way out, access that account and you bought out your own practice. So, I'm not saying that's for everybody. And I've certainly, you know, I certainly won't be. Refusing offers when the time comes, if there's a good opportunity, but I decided that it's more important to have and live and experience and work within the practice that I want while I'm practicing than to turn it into something less comfortable so that one day maybe dot, dot, dot.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't think there's any one answer, but I do love your philosophy on. I want to enjoy my work since I'm there. Only four days a week. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you've got that set up just the way you want it and it's working for you and the staff's happy. You're happy. Why not? I mean, why change? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Exactly. I mean, you mentioned the staff.
I've had incredibly good luck with, you know, staff longevity and we have patients come in and they recognize Who's been with me since I started practice? Katie, Christine, who's been with me over 15 years. Katie has been with me well over a decade and, and the most of the people that have left him to you out there.
You know, most of them it's because of. You know, marriage or pregnancy, or, you know, we're in a military town, so if they're married to somebody military, the military person gets transferred, so, and that happens, so I actually have a, a decent number of plastic surgeons around the country who appreciate that I've hooked them up with really good employees, because when I have an employee going to another town, you know, I'll call ahead and try to find something for them when they, because they're, they're relocating, but you know, I think that that all goes together too, you know, I, I shared space with somebody, I saw the challenges of that.
I then looked around. I mean, I see brothers who can't get along. I see, you know, father daughters, father sons that can't get along. No fewer best friends that can't get along. I mean, the number is, is, I mean, I, I don't know what the success rate is, but it has to be 20% or below of people that, that joined together and, and probably there's another 20% on the other end that end up in horrible.
Divorce slash acrimony slash legal action. So, that's just not something that to me is, is worth it when I weigh the pros and cons. Again, I run a relatively lean practice. So, when I shared space, what we found is in very short order. We had one receptionist who was overwhelmed because we had two busy surgeons in the same office.
We definitely both needed our own patient coordinator. We definitely both needed our own nurse. And in the office, and since we were both busy surgeons, you know, I guess we could have figured out how to do the OR time, but I was working five days a week at the time, and three days in the OR, and he was working three days in the OR, so that was going to be a long jam, and, but we had two, we fortunately had two ORs, so we had two ORs, two OR teams, we had two nurses, two patient coordinators, and shared a front desk person who was overwhelmed, and there wasn't a lot of savings there, you know, I mean, rent, I, you know, just not to break it to anybody, but like, if your biggest issue is rent and I'm in California and we pay obscene rent, you know, thanks Scripts Realty, but having said that, if your biggest issue is rent as a cosmetic plastic surgeon, you need to rethink how you're doing things.
And I don't mean that to be harsh, but I, I feel that way for myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's really a good point. Let's talk about competition. I can't, LA Jolla, I don't know as well, but you know, Newport Beach has something like 150 plastic surgeons. Yeah. How far are you from Newport Beach and is that a competitive area for you, or do you have your own local competition that you have? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, I mean, both, both. You know we certainly have a ton of people here. I think the joke was at one point between my building, the building next to me, there were probably 25 options to get a blepharoplasty, you know, between the, the ENT and the plastic surgeons and the, and the ophthalmologists and oculoplastic surgeons and whoever else thought it was a good idea to, you know, do that.
So, yeah, no, I mean, we definitely have, have that just. On Scripps and then UCSD is next door and then Sharp is 10 minutes down the road and then there's other Scripps campuses and UCSD campuses further south. So, and then, yeah, even though Camp Pendleton separates us from Orange County, there's no question South Orange County, I get patients from South Orange County and Newport Beach and some from L.
- And I'm sure they get patients from here. So, I think especially when you're kind of like, you know, whatever niche you're in. Right. But if we're in the higher end facial aesthetic niche, if you will, then it suddenly becomes like a handful of people and you have people, people are definitely can go where they need to go to find the right fit for that.
And I'm a big advocate of that. So, by all means, I think that's smart of them to find the right fit. We definitely get people from up north who want to slip over here. I mean, I think there's people that want to get out of their personal middle you sometimes to have their surgery. And we've got a really good set up with Torrey Pines Lodge and retreat and whatnot, where you can recover and, and privacy and luxury and whatnot.
And whether they're from here or whether they're from up north or anywhere else in the country. So, I don't look at it as a competition as much as a collegiality and I've got great friends and colleagues, but I certainly there's people when they weigh their choices, there's choices in town and out of town that they're going to consider.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you also haven't taken that for granted. I saw on your website, and I don't know why everybody doesn't do this. It says, why choose Dr. Miller? Like, it literally says, why choose us? And you're very specific about your core, your four core values. And it's, it's just, it has a whole section of why us? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
And I think you have to be so logical and emotional with patients. Because they buy, well, they're logical to begin with, but then they buy emotionally. But I think you have to spell it out. Why you? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: I do think so. And I mean, we might add a section. Why not? Why? Why don't choose us too? Because I think there's reason to choose or not choose a practice and you need to find the right fit.
And, you know, I want patients where we're the right fit for and I'm confident there's enough of them that will keep us going and thriving. But, you know, I think that's I want patients that are happy, you know, before, between and after and then refer other people. We don't do any other practice. Marketing really so-so. I think that absolutely I think, you know, we have this as you mentioned the passion for performance and the four is quality, integrity, safety and service.
You know, we want to do excellent work. We want to have integrity and do what we say we will do. We want to safety is always first and we don't cut any corners. You know I'm very lucky that my wife has a master's of public health and she's an RN and she's not in the office all the time working, but she oversees our surgery center and our certification and, you know, we don't cut any corners.
You know, we do the same. We provide, create an OR and recovery room atmosphere and safety setup. That is what we would want if we're all having surgery and many, Okay. people in the office have kind of, you know, and the we want to serve our Pati said, we pick the right p go broke. But at the same we're here to serve and a and you know,
when I wrap to feel like I, you know, Contributed something to someone somewhere. That's really important to me. So, so yeah, I think that's, that's kind of a really important part of what we do. We, we kind of, I think I really believe in a core value of respect and respect involves what I like to think of it as care because it's a nice acronym care, but you know, it's kindness, appreciation, reliability and enthusiasm.
You know, I think personally, I think Kindness shows appreciation for people's feelings, appreciate, appreciation shows respect for people's feelings, I should say, appreciation shows respect for people's time and effort and choices. Reliability shows respect for people's commitments, you know, and for yours.
And enthusiasm shows appreciation for their own opportunities that you've been given so, so if we, you know, we kind of look at it each day is like, hey, look at all these great people we get to meet look at all these great people we get to serve. And if you keep that attitude. And again, I don't want to be polyamorous within the right paradigm.
Then, then we try to we, we find that works really well for our practice. And then we try to express it, as you said, on the website, is that this is what we have to offer. You know, there's certain looks you might want to achieve, you know, that, that might not fit with our, with our aesthetic. So, look at the pictures, talk to us, and we'll give you an honest impression of where, where, what we see, given your concerns.
Where we're trying, where we think you should go, listen to where you're trying to go and see if it's a good fit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why I think your marketing is spot on, you're attracting that niche market that you want the most of. And frankly, you picked the right demographic because you want to work with a group who's least likely to be affected by the recession or the economy or whatever the heck is going on out there, or last affected by them. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
So, you have a minute to regroup if you have to. Did you make up that CARE acronym? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yes. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. All right. You have another really fun thing. You say you have a really great short PR intro video. I highly recommend everyone check it out. It said Miller cosmetic surgery dot com. Usually doctors want to talk about all of their degrees and the training that they've had.
And you talk to the patient about what they care about. And you said. I think you said something like this. I use my hands, my head and my heart to, you know, give you what you want or, but you said it very eloquently. I thought that was, I mean, talking right to that patient who cares way more about that than the price. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Oh, yeah, thanks. No, I appreciate that. That's actually something I originally sort of just spit that out when I was making a message to my staff in the middle of COVID and just kind of how we're going to get through this. We're going to use our, our head, our hands and our heart. You know, we're going to, it's going to take some thinking.
It's going to take some work and it's going to take some perseverance to get through this. And then, like, then I kind of thought about it and apply it more towards the practice, too, which obviously relates completely to a surgeon who has to have the vision, the skill and the will to get the work done, you know, you can have somebody with a lot of skill and no vision.
You can have somebody with a vision and skill, but no will, you know, as a friend of mine. Said once, you know, like you need somebody who's going to stand in there until the job is done. So, yeah. No, I appreciate that you, that you noticed that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You have all sorts of them. You're really, maybe you're a copywriter at heart!
Scott R. Miller, MD: There you go!
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, regarding social media, is that your thing? Are you doing it, not doing it? Where are you at with that? How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: Yeah, no, I mean, I think I don't do it. We, we have, we have an Instagram site. I think we put really useful things on it, but because of that, we also don't put a ton on it because, you know, we post when we think we have something to post.
And so, we try not to waste people's time. It's got to be either really helpful and knowledgeable or we think it's really funny. But basically, you know we don't, we don't dwell on those things and overwhelm on those things. We're really not doing it. It doesn't have any pictures of me. Going for a run or lifting weights.
Nobody wants to see that. Trust me. And so, we basically try to look at it as a, you know, it's an engagement tool, but it should be a constructive engagement tool. It should, people should get something out of it. We're not looking at it as to replace. We think you should be engaging in you. IRL real life social life as much as possible and checking in for really good pearls and bits and pieces of information that are useful for you.
So, we try not to, I've always felt that way, whether it was back in the day with newsletters and things like that. There's a, there's a balance between regularity, which you have to have for people sort of tune out, right, but also substance. And I think if you, I know for me, if I'm getting newsletters and I'm not, you know, if four out of five aren't like incredibly substantive, then I'm just, you know, unsubscribed.
So, we try to find that balance.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just want to suggest that if you just, just try it, do a couple jogging, you playing tennis, you playing with a dog, just try and watch what happens. We women eat that up. How did or does this factor in with you keeping busy without advertising?
Scott R. Miller, MD: And I do the 10. I'm pretty comfortable with my again. I have a pretty decent background in tennis. So, yeah, I drag my son who also played college tennis out there and I've always been to the tennis one.
But like I said, nobody wants to see me on the driving lane.
Catherine Maley, MBA: We're going to wrap it up now. Yeah. Can you tell us something interesting that we don't know about you?
Scott R. Miller, MD: I mean, the tennis would probably be the easiest one. Like, again, a whole different life. Were you pro at one time? Well, I don't think there's a kid who plays sports who doesn't at some point, you know, except for my daughter.
Cause she was a, she's a springboard and platform diver in college. So, then you don't think you're going pro because there is no pro, which is actually quite good because then it clarifies that you better pay a lot of attention in school because there is no pro you get no delusions where you can rationalize ignoring school.
But I don't think, you know, yeah, I was a young kid who six plus hours a day. Playing tennis. I mean, I would go get dropped off at, you know, before I even had a license. You know, I would get dropped off at the age of 1213 at Caesars Palace. I'd play for two hours, then I'd pitch a ride over to the Desert Inn, play for two hours, and then maybe get, the person I finished playing with would gimme a ride over to the Hacienda and I'd play another hour, and then hopefully get a ride home at some point.
So, that was my, that's how I grew up. I didn't miss Thanksgivings. I played on Thanksgiving. I played on Christmas. I mean, we. We played tennis all the time. I, it was a, it was kind of the golden age of Las Vegas tennis. If you will, we had a guy named David Pate who became, who won the NCAAs and, and with top doubles team in the world, we had several other players.
Obviously, everybody knows about Andre who kind of broke through about four years, four and a half years behind me. So, we had a lot of great players come out of that little. Shell because we were all going to the hotels and just playing against each other over and over and over. No academies, no fancy structures.
So, that was the whole first chunk of my life. And I got to play with, like, You know, every athlete, every tennis player, every celebrity. So, unfortunately, there was no iPhones, you know, no, no photographic evidence that it ever happened, but it's all, you know, I have it. So, anyway, that that's the main thing.
And then the other thing is that, you know, I was fortunate enough to meet my wife, although, you know, We don't really know when and where because we met so young, and we were friends for a long time before we started dating, but, but at some point, we met, and at some point, we started dating, and I'm fortunate to have a life partner who is there's no BS, there's no errors, there's no there's just a true partner and we love each other and tell each other the truth and make each other better.
So, and we have three great kids to show for it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to stay busy without advertising.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Miller you can reach out to his website at, MillerCosmeticSurgery.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Miller for sharing his recipe for success on staying busy without advertising.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βBusy Without Advertising β with Scott R. Miller, MDβ.
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π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the successful practice triad.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "The Successful Practice Triad β with Catherine Maley, MBA ".
A big mistake I see when consulting with plastic surgeons is that they lack vision, clarity and a plan. Too many are βwinging itβ.
- They try something for a bit and quit instead of focusing on the successful practice triad.
- They listen to a sales pitch, buy, and assume itβs a new profit center without much more thought, instead of focusing on the successful practic triad.
- They hire staff fast because they need to fill positions, instead of adhering to the successful practice triad.
This sporadic way of running a practice in βreactiveβ mode creates unnecessary chaos so this should help....
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode is me laying out my simple framework called,
The Successful Practice Triad for Plastic Surgeons Itβs simple. When you focus on the successful practice triad consistently, your work life gets better.
You have better-quality leads coming in that donβt waste your time, because you are using the best marketing channels given your circumstances and geographic location. Your messaging and branding is on point.
You are strategically encouraging prospective patients to contact you, rather than simply βlike youβ. You are attracting patients who care more about you than the lowest bid.
I go into a lot more detail in this podcast with take-a-way tips you can use right away.
P.S. Hereβs an interesting stat....most millionaires are small business owners, not Doctors.
Whatβs funny is that many of these millionaires didnβt even go to college. Whatβs the difference between you and them?
Nothing.
Theyβre just good at business and marketing, and know things that you donβt. Itβs time to change that.
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
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Transcript:
The Successful Practice Triad β with Catherine Maley, MBAβ Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA. Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Today's episode is called "The Successful Practice Triad for Plastic Surgeons". Now, it takes a lot of time, money, and effort to set up a successful plastic surgery practice, and the percentage of time, money, and effort changes as you change and grow.
For example, when you're just starting out, you have way more time than money. So, you may use it to create social media content. network with non-competing providers who can refer you and handle your own administrative tasks. And then as you grow, you get busier and have less time. So, you hire people to do the admin, test advertising channels and network for you.
Now, you're more focused on surgery and have some breathing room since others are taking care of things you no longer want to do. or are even good at. But then, never fails, something happens. Google changes the algorithms, your key employee quits, and or you get banned on social media for who knows why.
Now, you're back to square one and have to put more time, money, and effort into rebuilding and so it goes. Now, it doesn't really have to be that way because when you set up your practice like a business, you have clarity of who you are. What you want in terms of goals and values and you focus on the most important aspects to keep your practice healthy and profitable.
But a big mistake I see when consulting with plastic surgeons is that they lack vision, clarity, and a plan. So, too many are winging it. They try something for a bit and quit. They listen to a sales pitch, buy, and then assume it's the latest new profit center without much more thought. They hire staff fast because they need to fill positions and on and on.
By the way, this podcast that I've interviewed so many surgeons on, the majority of them say their number one challenge is staffing issues. For example, finding good staff, making sure staff is doing their jobs, Handling staff conflicts and creating a culture of teamwork versus backstabbing. And a lot more goes into that.
So, yes, staffing can be complicated because you are dealing with human emotions, beliefs, and personalities, but there's plenty you can do to get control over it and the rest of your practice. So, to help, I developed this simple framework and it's called the Successful Practice Triad for Plastic Surgeons.
Now, it's simple. When you focus on at least these three main variables consistently, your work life gets easier and better because you have better quality leads coming in that don't waste your time because you're using the best marketing channels. Given your circumstances and your geographic location, your messaging and branding is also on point and you're strategically encouraging the best quality prospective patients to contact you rather than simply like you.
You're attracting patients who care more about you than the lowest bid. So, leads are the first pillar of the successful practice triad. Now, the second pillar of the successful practice triad is converting those leads. Leads are only one part of the equation. They've got to be converted into a book consultation and then a paid procedure or all is lost.
For example, your front desk staff represents a huge untapped opportunity for you, but it's often taken lightly. How much do they know about converting phone calls into appointments?
Now, my team and I have been mystery shopping practices for over 20 years and it's shocking what you don't know is being said by your front desk that directly affects your image and your reputation. Also, do you have the right patient coordinator? Now, the coordinator with the right character, mindset, and skills can take your practice revenues from just enough to pay the bills to a windfall every month because they know how to book patients.
Cosmetic procedures. Now, this position cannot be taken lightly either. You may think anyone can step in to do the job of a coordinator, but you'll see by the lack of book surgeries, that is just not true. Converting consultations is an art and trained skill. It takes the right strategies, knowledge, and then lots of practice to get good at confidently taking a stranger patient to a paying cosmetic patient.
Now, the staff you bring on to represent you professionally must have the right mindset, attitude, people skills and training to keep you busy and profitable. And it's a lot easier to find, manage and motivate staff when they have clarity scripts and processes to keep them focused. Now, lastly, the third pillar of the successful practice triad for plastic surgeons is accountability.
Now, Webster's Dictionary says the definition of accountability is the obligation or willingness to accept the responsibility for one's own actions. Now, there are four key areas of accountability that change everything for your practice growth when you implement them. And here they are. Clearly defined goals, assigned to specific team members.
With clearly mapped out behavior metrics, they will follow to reach those goals and then regular check ins to evaluate Results and get their feedback. By the way, there's plenty of technology and apps available today to help you track everything like Which marketing and advertising efforts are bringing in the best leads.
The lead response time The percentage of callers booking appointments, your coordinator's conversion rate, who's following up on leads and how's that going? How many referrals and reviews are you getting? And so on. Now, when you have a good handle on your efforts and your results, your practice runs more smoothly, your staff is more productive, and you're making more money with less hassle.
And there you have it. The successful practice triad. And once again, the three pillars are leads, converting, and accountability. So, knowing this, now what do you do? Well, they say knowledge equals power, but that's only true if you execute that knowledge. So, here's a question for you. Are you making multi millions a year and having fun while doing it?
Now, if not, The solution to these problems is clarity on what you're doing because the solution to turning your practice around isn't about working harder. This is one of the biggest mistakes the plastic surgeons make. They believe that making more money means working longer hours and nothing could be further from the truth.
In fact, this is actually counterproductive. The goal is to work smarter, not harder. And you need to get out of your own head. The problem is that you're too close to your business. You're just too involved and you can't see the forest from the trees. But this is why it's so important that you get a second opinion.
Because the only difference between more successful surgeons and you, is that they know something you don't know. That's really all there is to it. And here's another secret. These surgeons stopped trying to figure it out on their own. After all, what's the fastest way to achieve success? It's to model what other successful surgeons are doing.
So, I developed a nine-step process when working with cosmetic practices to up level to a profitable practice they are proud of. And here they are. So, number one is your vision. We start by creating a vision for your practice. Now, this helps you get the clarity of where you are. where you're trying to get to, and what's holding you back.
And as I said before, the big thing here is that you get an outsider's perspective. You also need insight into the ways that other surgeons have solved their problems. Now, with my help, you can achieve both of these goals. You'll get out of your head and see what's actually going on. This paradigm shift allows you to focus on what's actually important and sees what's really holding you back.
Now, here's number two, your key performance indicators, affectionately known as KPIs, because what gets measured gets improved. Now, sadly, most surgeons don't track enough, or they're tracking, but they're tracking the wrong things. Now, we would do a deep dive into your data and identify your KPIs to learn what's really important.
You'll figure out where resources are going to waste, what's costing you time, money, hassle, and sleepless nights, plus how to address and fix these things. Then number three is Phone Mystery Shopping. It's a fact. Bad phones cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and you don't even know it. So, Phone Mystery Shopping is one of the most powerful tools ever invented to getting your front desk into gear.
It's also one of the best tools for training and improving their effectiveness. Now, my team will mystery shop your practice and provide insights into how staff can handle callers better, so they book rather than hang up and call your competitors. Number four is customized lead converting training, because here's the ugly truth.
You are leaving money on the table and it's mostly due to your staff. They need to learn how to convert callers into appointments and consultations into paid procedures. Now, with my help, you're guaranteed to increase conversions by at least 15%. Now, 15 percent can easily be worth a half a million or more when your staff are properly trained.
Now, what could this extra money mean to your practice? You could pay down your debt, save for retirement, go on vacation. or upgrade your office and equipment. The possibilities are endless and the solution is easy. I create customized interactive training on the following topics. Training number one is how to turn your phone calls into profits.
This is for staff who answer phones and includes five points which must be covered on every call for the best possible result. And how to strategically close callers and do it without sounding salesy. And how your front desk can position you as the best choice. Then there's training two, and it's called Prospect to Patient, How to Get a Patient to a Yes.
Now, this training is mainly for your patient coordinator, although all staff can benefit from it. And the topics include how to frame and position you as the best choice before the consultation, how to deal with the question of prices, patients who want to negotiate, and patient objections, and how to close the consultation without applying pressure or being too pushy.
And then there's training three, which is called cross promoting all of your services. Now, the easiest way to a cash surge is to increase the lifetime value of each patient. That means no extra budget for advertising is necessary. So, the topics include simple strategies to introduce all of your services in clever fun ways so patients want to give you more money, and how to combine products and services so patients get a wow result, and customer service skills so patients give you all of their disposable income and not just some of it.
For number five, it's your patient's experience because customer experience is everything. Every asset of your practice plays into this from the moment patients call your office, walk through your door, go through your process to the moment they leave. And I'll show you how to provide the best patient experience possible, plus how to do it with the least amount of effort.
Now, we'll go through your current process and determine what's working and what you can improve upon. I'll also point out mistakes being made and how to correct them. Very few practices realize how much money they're leaving on the table due to poor customer experience. This is one of the simplest things to correct and I'll show you how.
Now, number six is your new patient attraction and conversion blueprint. Without a constant stream of new patients, you don't have a business. For You know, this is why it's critical that you figure out your patient attraction strategy. Now, you'll see how to do this with my proven new patient attraction and conversion blueprint.
This gives you a step-by-step formula for booking out your practice with new and existing patients. We'll also take a look at your current marketing efforts and determine what's working and what isn't. This way you spend money on things that are actually effective and you stop spending money on things that don't work.
Now, we'll examine the ROI of your marketing efforts, look at your sales funnel, and find ways of improving your conversion rates. This includes every step of the lead process from receiving inquiries to booking patients and beyond. Now, with my help, you'll convert as many leads as possible and avoid losing money.
Number seven is a follow up assessment and evaluation report. Now, I'll assess and evaluate your practice based on your strengths, your challenges, and strategies for improvement. You'll get a checklist of things to prioritize and work through. This gives you a list of actionable items and a playbook for achieving your goals for the rest of your career.
Now, number eight, I'm going to also give you a one-year marketing plan. This includes a tailored marketing plan and follow up process that contains measurable timelines. This way you can stop worrying where the money will come from and start enjoying a steady and predictable stream of income throughout the year.
By the way, if you're too busy to execute this plan, then my staff and I can do it for you, but just know you're not obliged to use my services. And then for number five, it's ongoing support. It's really important that you stay on track, stay motivated. get additional advice and put these ideas into action.
Now, this is especially true after my onsite visit. I need to make sure that you're actually making progress and using my strategies. This is why we conduct weekly strategy calls, as well as unlimited email and text access directly to me. You can also use this time to ask questions and get additional clarity on topics such as practice building, patient attraction or staff training.
So, right now you're probably thinking, Is all of this really worth it? Now, the best way of answering this is by looking at your numbers. For example, take your current income and increase it by 15%. Now, how much would that work out to? At least an extra 100 grand, 400 grand, 600 grand, more? So, what if... A few simple tweaks could produce this type of income in weeks rather than months and years.
Now, here's another way to look at it. My fees are a drop in the bucket compared to what you get. I know this because no surgeon has ever said that time working with me was a waste. And at the end of the day, you have to start thinking like a business person. And this means investing money into your practice.
So, you do have a decision to make here. Choice number one is, you just keep doing what you're doing, and you can get the same results, but you might be wasting 5, years going around in circles, not reaching your goals and wondering what happened. Or there's choice number two, you can work with me and solve these problems once and for all.
Now, you get access to the best and most effective strategies for running your practice and getting to where you want to be. It's really that simple. Now, I've done this for countless surgeons. I can do it for you. You just need to take a leap of faith and believe you've already invested money into your education and your practice.
Why not invest a little more? The reality is that you need to learn the business and marketing side of things. Unless you do this, you'll never reach your full potential as a surgeon. Not only that, everything you've invested so far will go to waste. Now, that might sound harsh, but it's really true. It's also true that you need to handle this problem.
Now, every day you delay, this affects your life down the line. It affects your future health. happiness and eventual net worth. It affects your ability to save for retirement, your family life, and your work life balance. For example, imagine retiring 10 years earlier and doing it well. Imagine enjoying as much free time as you like.
Imagine a rock-solid relationship with your family members. Imagine being free of stress, debt, and problems. Imagine owning the home of your dreams or the car you've always wanted. And here's one more fact to consider. Most millionaires are small business people, not doctors. What's funny is that many of these millionaires Didn't even go to college.
What's the difference between you and them? Nothing. They're just good at business and marketing and know things that you don't. It's time to change this. If you're ready, just go to my website at www.CatherineMaley.com and click on a button called βSchedule a free 30-minute strategy callβ. Or you can always text me at (415) 377-8700.
And let's talk about how to set you up for a profitable future. I hope that was helpful to you. And that wraps up this episode of βBeauty and the Bizβ. And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe and share this with your staff and colleagues. And just one more time, go to www.CatherineMaley.com click to schedule a call with me and I'll reach out to you shortly.
Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
We hope you found valuable insight on this episode of Beauty and the Biz. For more episodes, tools, and Catherine's free book, visit www.CatherineMaley.com. That's www.c a t h e r i n e m a l e y.com. And be sure to subscribe to get the latest practice building strategies delivered to you.
And don't forget to share this Beauty and the Biz podcast with your staff and colleagues.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and Doctor Gould's 'Painless & Drainless' tummy tuck.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck β with Daniel Gould, MD, PhD".
As it gets more challenging to differentiate yourself from your competitors, you have to dig deep.
Itβs not enough to be good. You need to be a cut above, but thatβs not enough either because you also need to be able to βshow and tellβ those differences to the consumer layperson, so they see you as the best choice.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest was Dr. Daniel Gould, a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon in Beverly Hills for the past 4 years, who's developed his 'Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck' procedure.
Here are some of the topics we covered:
- The priceless mentoring he got from his fellowship with renowned Grant Stevens, MD and his work with other heavy hitters in Beverly Hills (Drs. Telai, Ghavami
- and Nazarian), before going out on his own.
- How his Ph.D. in bioengineering has helped him get better results and happier patients. For example, his 'Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck'.
- His other business endeavors, such as Milk & Honey Spas, that have him thinking like an entrepreneur and much more...
Visit Dr. Gould's website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you! Click below:
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Transcript:
Painless & Drainless Tummy Tuck β with Daniel Gould, MD, PhD Catherine Maley, MBA: βHello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Doctor Gouldβs βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's special guest is Dr. Daniel Gould, who has developed his βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique. He's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in solo practice, in Beverly Hills for the past several years. Now, his education included UCLA, Baylor College of Medicine, Rice University, USC for plastic surgery residency, and then he did a very specialized fellowship in aesthetic surgery in Beverly Hills and Marina Del Rey, California run by Dr. Grant Stevens, which is a big deal.
So, he's also authored hundreds of peer-reviewed articles published in plastic surgery journals. He speaks nationally and internationally at medical conferences. That's where we ran into each other. And he happens with all of that to have a PhD in bioengineering, which we'll talk more about; as well as his βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ.
So, Dr. Gould, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. I really appreciate you being with us.
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, I don't know how, how did you, where did the bioengineering fit in with the plastic surgery? What came first? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Well, I was a part of an MD PhD program, which is a combination of a training in medicine and basic science.
And as part of that, you kind of pick the discipline that you want to do your PhD in. And at the end of my second year of medical school, which is where you transition into the research years, I did have interest in surgery. And I had a lot of interest in reconstructive surgery. And the research that I did in bioengineering was focused on tissue engineering.
regenerating human tissues, whether it's organs like the brain, the liver, the heart, the lungs, the kidneys, or whether it's the soft tissues like the skin, the muscle, the bone. And so bioengineering offers almost a perfect kind of synchrony or, or connection between medicine and basic re and basic research, because it offers an opportunity to explore how we fix these bigger problems and regenerate natural tissues.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay. So, you went into plastic surgery. You're actually from, I believe, Sacramento. So, that's your, your Sacramento, Northern California. That's right. Then how did you end up? What a great fellowship you did with Grant Stevens. And I believe Jay Calvert down in Marina Del Ray and Beverly Hills. What was that experience like? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Well, it was for me, it was a seminal experience. I mean, I had done a residency at USC and in that time, even as an intern, I had met with Grant and with Jay and had learned a lot about aesthetic surgery. And I wasn't thinking that I was going to be a cosmetic surgeon in residency. Truly. I was very interested in microsurgery, hand surgery, pediatric surgery; all reconstructive aspects. But over time, over the first two to three years, when we really start doing more surgery, I started gravitating towards the concept of aesthetic surgery. It's high stakes. It requires artistry, but also a very detailed understanding of anatomy and an emotional and psychological connection with your patients.
That's far different than any of the reconstructive disciplines. You're taking a big risk when you're telling a patient who's perfectly healthy. We're going to operate on you to make you look better. And I learned a lot about that process and it really did bring me into this concept of what I wanted to do.
And then Grant kind of recruited me and I had done research with him and with Jay. And my third year of residency, he called me, I can't, I remember it very clearly. It was like a Wednesday, the middle of the week in the middle of the night, like 1230 AM, and this was before we had a match process, so they got to.
Pick who they wanted essentially as a fellow all around the world. He called me and said, Hey man, we're offering you the spot. Do you want to take it? It was like 1230 at night. I said, absolutely sign me up. So, I knew as a third-year resident that I was going to be doing this three years later, and then that gave me even more of a springboard to be able to follow my interests, develop my kind of my research and my expertise, even during residency at that early phase.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And at that point, do you know what you're going to do when you leave the fellowship, when you're done with it? Or like, what do you do, like, because if you found out your third year, then you're still there for the fourth year, then you do a fellowship for another year, right? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
So, are you getting β
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Actually, you're there fourth year, fifth year, sixth year, and then you do your fellowship.
So, it's seven years total, right? So, it's four or five years in advance where you know what you're going to be doing. But I didn't know that I was going to necessarily have a practice in Los Angeles following the fellowship.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And while you were there, are you learning the business and the marketing side of plastic surgery or strictly the clinical and the reconstructive? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: So, for me, my, my father's a pediatrician, right? He's also Dr. Gould, Dr. Gould Sr. And he's had a practice in Sacramento for the last 30 years, the largest private practice pediatric group in Northern California. So, I've been exposed to medicine and the practice of medicine all my life. And he had a large practice, you know, three different locations, 80 employees, average length of employment, 25 years.
So, I've seen how to run a successful business, a successful practice all that time. But, Being in that point in my residency, I was also exposed to what was going on in Grant's office and in a few of my other mentors, like Sheila had a very busy practice, Sheila Nazarian, I was spending time with her seeing what she was doing.
So, I'd always been investigating, you know, how to build the business behind the plastic surgery practice, but not necessarily thinking that I was going to be running my own at that time. I was more actually, honestly, looking at an academic job and I had plans to do an academic position doing cosmetic surgery and other aspects of reconstructive, namely transgender surgery at that time. But things kind of change. And at USC, they had a hiring freeze, essentially the year that I was looking for a job there and had a few different job offers, but ultimately decided to just stay where I had been for my fellowship and to continue as a general kind of contractor with a concept of exploring, maybe I'll take this practice over, maybe I'll go do my own thing.
Maybe I'll just kind of do what I can. And at the time, just operating a lot, building up my skills and just trying to provide good care and good outcomes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is your father crushed that you didn't follow him? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: No, because this is going to sound totally crazy, but pediatrics and plastic surgery are very similar disciplines.
Because in both of them, you're dealing with an anxious person and not always the patient right in front of you. In pediatrics, you're dealing with the same type of patient. It's the mother and the father that you're treating, not the baby, right? Because the baby, you give it a shot, it cries and then leaves.
But you have to spend time talking with mom and dad about what's going to happen. Now that's the same patient that I see in a mommy makeover. They're literally the same patients, right? Same kind of age, same kind of maturity, same kind of questions, same kind of desires, anxieties, all those things. So, it's actually very similar to what my dad does on a daily basis.
And there's a lot of psychiatry involved. There's a lot of understanding what's going on with your patients, personality disorders, stress, anxiety. That's what feeds into the best relationship. The truth is. Good doctors are good doctors, doesn't matter what the discipline is. And to be a great surgeon, you have to be a good doctor first.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But did your dad want you to take over his practice? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: You know, we had conversations about it. And I, I could have, because a physician can own a physician practice in Sacramento, but, or in California and anywhere within the state. But he really wanted me to pursue my own goals, and he never told me to be a doctor, actually.
He was always someone saying, like, you shouldn't do this unless you're really into it. So, I think that some of him was, is proud of me for choosing to be a physician and doing surgery, which is something that he doesn't do. And I don't think that he disapproves of cosmetic surgery or whatever it is that I do within plastic surgery.
But the, you know, he just wants me to be happy. And I have three other siblings, and they are all outside of medicine, and he's very proud of all of us. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's terrific. Now, one thing I've watched you do very well, and I don't know if you're doing it strategically or not, you're hanging around with the right people. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
You're still fairly new at this, and for you to get the education from Grant Stevens and Jay Calvert, and then for you to be in Sheila Lazarian's office, and I also think you've hung around with Dr. Gavani and Ben Talei, I mean, you are getting such an incredibly accelerated, real world, Experience of how not just the business but the marketing of it because everyone knows how important that is, especially if you're in Beverly Hills, you've got a lot of competition there. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Were you at all afraid to set up shop in Beverly Hills or were you completely comfortable after hanging with the big boys? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: I've always been very comfortable in my own skin. I know my limitations. I know what I'm good at, and I know what I'm not good at. I've had many mentors, including the ones that you mentioned, but also Guy Masry, and one of my closest mentors is Garth Fisher, who's a well-established, well known, very famous plastic surgeon here.
And I spend time in the operating room upstairs from my office here in, in in Paul Nassif's OR. So, I spend time with Paul. With Charlie Galanis and with Garth Fisher. Now, this allows me to continue to build my skills, but also gives me mentorship and allows me to have people that I can bounce ideas off of.
Aside from those people, I've also worked a little bit with Chachi Keo and learned from him as like a mentor as an independent mentor and another great surgeon, Ritu Chopra, who was another part of the fellowship over here that I did. So, I would just tell you this. I like to collect mentors because those people all inspire me.
They show me what to do and what not to do. And they also serve as a sounding board. If there's an issue, there's a problem. You have a difficult patient, something that you're worried about. You can learn the techniques and the procedures, but you can also learn how they interact with their patients and how they build their practices.
And the truth about it is that although Beverly Hills is an incredibly, competitive market in Beverly Hills. If you're a great surgeon, you don't feel that pressure. So, there's a network of people that are kind of at this level and they're apt to share. They're open because they don't have issues.
They don't have insecurity about their practice. They're not afraid of opening up the Komodo and showing you their good ideas because they know they're already 510 steps ahead of you. You know, Ben and I are close. But Ben's ahead of me and there's no question that that's the case. Right. But there are things that I do now that I've learned from him and things that we do together and things that we do that are different and things that we do the same, that allow me to occupy a slightly different niche.
And, you know, over time, I'm going to be where Ben's at now, but I'm never going to catch him cause he's. You know, six years ahead of me, seven years ahead of me, but the goal is not just necessarily to catch. It's to kind of exchange ideas, learn from each other and kind of grow as teammates. And that's the same thing that I see with him and Chopra.
And the three of us actually talk a lot about our techniques. We go to meetings together, we present together. I'm honored to even be anywhere near the stage with those guys and to be able to spend time with them. But I do have something to contribute my own thoughts kind of within the specialty and they see that that's why they allow me to be there.
They know that I'm hardworking. They see what I do. They see my results and they know that I can produce good for you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just I hope everyone's catching that. It's so important that you hang around with others who are. Where you want to be they'll just give you such insight and shortcuts and you're the opening up your mind to the possibilities. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
There's just nothing, it's invaluable hanging around with people who think big and think different, you know, differently than you do. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: It's just like, if you want to get, if you want to get money, you go rob a bank. That's where the money is. If you want great ideas, you spend time with people that produce great ideas, because then you'll be inspired to do the same.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, are yours, are you still doing reconstructive or are you completely cosmetic now? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: So, I do reconstructive procedures. I work with a group called βMission Plasticoβ, which is basically a non-for-profit organization that helps identify women that need breast reconstruction that have fallen outside of the traditional kind of pathway for reconstruction, meaning they don't have great insurance or they don't have any insurance.
Or there's some other reason why they don't have access to resources. Within that group, I actually helped set up the collaborative agreement between MTF, which provides the internal scaffolds that we use for breast reconstruction and that group at βMission Plasticoβ. So, I helped set up the relationship that now allows our patients in that group to benefit from breast reconstruction outside of the scope of what they could normally.
So, I still do reconstruction, but it's essentially all stuff that's pro bono. I actually have never charged for a reconstructive procedure. submitted a bill for any of the procedures that I've done in my practice, which is kind of special and different. And I've done reconstruction on patients that have come to me for cosmetic purposes.
If they say, I still want you to be my doctor for this, I'm happy to do that procedure for them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: From a marketing perspective, I would definitely make a bigger deal out of that on your website and your Instagram. I did not know that. And women, women love to know that you're on their side. So, of course. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Yeah. And what about surgical versus non-surgical? Are you just completely surgical or do you think there's a, you know, one stop shop kind of business approach to this? What are your feelings on that? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: I like to intermingle the non-surgical and the surgical because the, because I want to get the best results.
And so how do I get the best results for my patients? Well, I'm not just going to do a facelift, I'm going to do all the other things too. Radiofrequency microneedling, CO2 laser, a little bit of neuromodulator, and some fillers, hyaluronic acid and or fat, because that's how we get the best results. So, I do all those things so I can provide them all to my patients, because I don't look at it and say what's the most profitable, what's the best, you know, profit margin.
I say, How do I get the best result for my patient here and now? Because if I can do that, if I can provide excellent surgery and excellent non-surgical services, then I get a happy patient with a great result who's referring me more patients over time. Gotcha.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's the way to look at it, quite frankly. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
But with that comes staff because you need other revenue generators to handle the non-surgical side. So, you can focus on surgical. How has it been for you growing a practice from scratch bringing staff on board? Any tips for hiring, firing, motivating? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah, a lot of tips. So, aside from my practice, I'm also the medical service operator and a shareholder in a company called Milk and Honey, which is a very large private group that is basically a medispa in Texas, California, Chicago, and New York.
I'm in charge of the California side and the Chicago side in terms of business development. So, I've helped hire, inject, and build up the medispa in the California offices. Now, within my practice, so I know how, how to attract good injectors and how to build out their services.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I use that because a lot of people ask me all the day, how do I find a good nurse injector? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: The secret is very straightforward. It's no secret. You have to have a good culture and you have to be focused on the right things. When I interview a nurse injector, I tell them, this is my mission statement. Best patient care always when they hear that and you're really putting your money where your mouth is, they want to work for you because the truth is everybody's going to offer them money.
They're going to have offers for different amounts, but somewhere within the same kind of bracket. Everyone's going to offer them other kind of. perks, but they want to really deliver good care. Most nurse injectors want to know that they can give the best care always. They don't want to feel the pressure of a 15-minute appointment for Botox for profitability over patient care.
So, when they hear that you're really devoted and connected to that message, then they're ready to work for you. Now at Milk and Honey, there was a push where we were there for a while, people were looking at time in the room, and I said, absolutely not, we're going to preserve time in the room because Time in the room is not just quality of outcomes and connections and building the relationship.
It's also the opportunity to talk to patients about other services. So, that's why I still do Botox and radiofrequency microneedling and lasers in my own practice because my time with them while I'm doing the microneedling, although yes, it does generate significant profit, also allows me to talk to them about other procedures, body procedures, breast surgery, abdominoplasty.
Moving down to those other regions. And that's more opportunity for us to connect. And for me to there to them, to be my patient for life. So, there is a balance now recruiting nurses that are injectors, recruiting PAs that are injectors in the practice. It's not that difficult. It's all about mission statement within my own practice.
I have a nurse and she's been helping me. Deliver care pre and post operative care. And over time now I'm developing her skills, teaching her radio frequency, microneedling, teaching her injectables. And over time, what we're going to do is I'm going to bridge my patients so that they see her in the beginning.
And then in the end, she's the one doing the injectables, the microneedling and the lasers. Because then they'll have consistency, trust and expectations with a person that they know. And I like training my own person that's going to be in my office because I can have total control over their knowledge base, over their applications, and how they approach the process of post-surgical treatments.
That's really key. You can't just hire someone off the street. Throw them in a room with a needle and a vial of Botox and say, go make me profit. That's really not the right way to do it. It's what all the private equity firms are doing right now. It's definitely what the MediSpas are doing right now that are not physician owned or oriented because they're focused on dollar per hour in the room, conversion rates, high level business metrics that make sense on paper, but don't equate to a good patient experience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, is the Milk and Honey, is that a PE play, or is that some other kind of structure? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: It's individually and privately owned by the two owners so, which, they're a married couple and they basically are the two that are running everything, but over time the goal was for us to grow in many different locations, maybe reach a point where we have as many as 30 locations in California, and then potentially be like the Amazon of aesthetic Medi spa, an example to other injectors and other companies that are trying to achieve what we're doing.
It's definitely not a PE play at this point. We have been approached by many different firms and companies that want to be involved. We've been told to come pitch all those things. We don't need to do it. So, right now what we're doing is focusing on just delivering great care, growing the brand and growing the quality of the experience for the customers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And is the branding βMilk and Honeyβ, or is it still βGould Plastic Surgeryβ? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Well, there's two brands here, right? There's my practice, which is Gould Plastic Surgery, and there's Milk and Honey, which is this other thing that I'm involved in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: By the way, I love that name. It's really cute. I will remember that. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Mm hmm. But Milk and Honey is... Product lines that are cosmetic grade products, but also spa, not just medispa and medispa. It's huge. You know, it's a much bigger kind of concept and we're talking like 20 locations at this point. So, that's a different side project for me that I use to focus on and that I also use in conjunction with my practice.
The brands are contiguous, they make sense the brands match, you know, everything from what it looks like in my waiting room to what their waiting room looks like are very similar, so it's easy to, to have crossover, and I send my patients from my surgical practice there, and they send me patients here, so it's a nice kind of back and forth that we do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And do they do any marketing for you? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: We do within the, within the Milk and Honey brand, there's some marketing and some other opportunities, but I've not really tapped that yet. We've been just growing it up and slowly building it. I just hired a new manager for the West Coast and she's kind of stepped in and slowly kind of gotten it up to steam.
In the next three to six months, I'm really going to be pushing the marketing efforts to grow the practice from the Milk and Honey brand. It's great because those patients are awesome. And you know, they have, Tons of people that use the, that use their facility that come for the, not just the non-surgical treatments, but also the spa treatments that are the right demographic, the right people that we want to see in my office.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then back to staff, are you bonusing them? Are you just paying them above market? How are you handling that? Because a lot of this has gotten down to, you know, others just poaching, just using money, you know, and bonuses. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: And when I was hiring like when I was looking at hiring a PA from my own office, there definitely was a push towards that.
Everybody's so focused on commission. And the truth is that commission structures are incentivizing, but they can also incentivize. The wrong thing. If you incentivize an employee towards generating profit, your company will be more profitable, but the patient experience may not be as good. So, you have to be really thoughtful about it.
So, in my practice at all the different position kind of player roles, I basically go at the very highest kind of level for reimbursement and for the industry standard. For where we're located which is very high for most of those positions. And then from roles that are critical roles to like patient conversion.
So, for instance, patient coordinator role, there is a small commission involved, but my goal is not to create a commission hungry office. Is to create an office that does the right thing for the patient at all times, whether that's expensive or not expensive, whether that's something that takes time, energy, or cost me money, I want the office to see my behaviors to know who I am as a leader and to know that I am focused and fully committed to that process and to that belief.
So, you know, there are many things that I do in my office on a daily basis where my staff can see that I'm doing that. I'm not charging the patient for that. I'm including in my own overhead. And that sends the right message, the right mission statement to the people that work around me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And did you bring like a COO on board or at least an office manager to be a buffer between you and the staff, or are you trying to manage all these people on your own? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: It's just me managing my staff. And it's not that, it's great. They have no issues, you know, the staff is well maintained, they're thoughtful. I lead, you know, we have different meetings and things that we, that we get together to do check ins. We have processes in place. I have no issue managing great staff.
The truth is. Most people that work for you want to do a good job, and as long as they're given the opportunity to do that, they're going to be successful at it. So, if somebody's struggling or they're having difficulty and performing in their position, there's a reason. And it's probably because you're not enabling them to do what they want to do, or because there's some other crutch in place that's blocking them from really achieving their goals.
And I've had to fire people just like anyone else, but I actually have never technically fired a person. I don't fire people in my office. Okay. If somebody, what I usually do is I come to them and I say, what is it that you're passionate about? Because it's clearly not this, there's something that's going on that, you know, that this isn't what you're supposed to be doing.
And I have had like, for instance, I have one person and she said, well, I always wanted to be a hairdresser and I was like going to go to school for it, but then I kind of screwed up and now I'm here and it's okay, great. Let's find a hairdressing school that I found three salons within seven square blocks and said, you can go and kind of work in one of these places and they'll give you an apprenticeship.
We'll get you enrolled in cosmetology school. And we're going to free you up for the opportunity that you really deserve. Right? They just move on and they're able to pursue something that they're interested in. It's really going to fulfill them and give them kind of. The desire to, you know, fill all their fulfill their desires to kind of change and grow and to get better and to do the things they want to do, that's what I'm going to do.
You know, if I, if I hire you, there's a good reason I don't hire like that. Right. I spent a lot of time figuring out who the person is, what their motivations are, if they're consistent with kind of my approach, and then I don't have to fire people. I just, you know, talk to them about what's motivating them and what's wrong.
And how do we kind of align those things?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I will say I do a lot of hiring and almost the first question I ask is Not like what are your career goals? But I say where are you trying to get to where are you going with your career? And that when I say it very conversationally and openly, they always tell me and it and if it's not aesthetic You know, like I love working with people who love this industry and they're just trying to get into it because they just love it so much. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
But I mean, I, I've had people say to me, well, I've always wanted to be, she was like a salsa dancer or something. And you should hear that. She doesn't want to be in the office. She wants to be a salsa dancer. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: And you tell them this is not the right position for you, right? Or you say, hey. I need somebody who's 100 percent passionate about being the very best patient coordinator that ever existed, right?
Like you need to be devoted and connected to that. You need to get deeper meaning from it. And it needs to be consistent with your story. Like my current coordinator, she, her dad was a plastic surgeon. She became a nurse. She's been around the industry her whole life. She loves coordinating, lives it, eases it, breathes it, sleeps it.
It's a part of who she is. It's ingrained into her culture. So, when she talks to a patient about plastic surgery, you better believe it's coming from the heart. And that's, that's the right fit. Somebody like that with that kind of background, it just makes sense. When they come to me and tell me, I love being a patient coordinator.
I love. assisting patients through the journey, seeing them happy with their results, following up with them a year later, two years later. It's like, yeah, I believe that because I see it and I see the culture and I understand kind of where you're coming from. So, it all makes sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, in addition to that, you also on your website on your nav bar, it says the coordinator like meet the coordinator and she gets a full-on photo. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
She has a huge photo, a huge bio about her father being in the industry and all of that. I mean, you are really putting some play behind her. So, she must feel so appreciated and acknowledged for being on the team. I've never seen somebody portray their coordinator as significantly as you have. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Well, it's important because that's one of the people, the one of the main contact people for the office, but one of the people that patients are going to remember over time.
And I think that you really do need to build that person up. They're your right hand in the office. And if you build that relationship well it can last for a long time. That's my intention.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well, you're doing a good job there. Hopefully she stays put though. And she's trained, you know sounds like she is, but I spend so much of my time training coordinators because you have to be more than just a pretty face or people, you know, I'm good with people. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
You really have to strategically understand this, the patient and their decision-making process and all of that. So, regarding business, last question, what's the biggest challenge of running a practice in today's world or that you have encountered? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: And I mean, there are so many challenges. The truth is that there are many more pitfalls than you initially think of when you're starting a practice.
Uniquely in California, there's a whole host of regulatory issues around cosmetic surgery, medicine in general, and hiring and firing, and each of them can be a potential severe limiter for success. So, everything from understanding the importance of HR and hiring people, but also maintaining their hours, keeping track of what they're doing and what they're doing when they're off everything from that to understanding the immense regulatory that follows the types of procedures that we do, FDA compliant versus non, FDA cleared versus approved for different devices.
And then understanding the myriad of other things that, that coexist with your growth of your practice. So, where, how to book, you know, like what operating rooms to work in and why the concept of in plastic surgery in Beverly Hills, there's many places to do surgery. Do you need to create your own operating room or can you rent somebody else's?
Are there strategic partnerships that you can create to build up your referral streams, whether that's reaching out to other physicians or other plastic surgeons, even depending on the types of procedures that you offer and the marketing schemes that you use to attract patients. So, I would just say, There are so many pitfalls that, that you can experience in that first year of practice that can really be devastating if they're not worked out in advance.
There are financial issues in starting a practice and having an idea, a clear and concise idea of what it's going to cost. Is really critical having a financial planner, but also a consultant who can talk to you about, you know, overhead basically personnel and then growth will really allow you to kind of target those things and then a great CPA and a tax person maybe even a tax attorney that can help you look at what your strategies are to deal with taxes to make sure that you're compliant, that you're up to date, you're not falling behind which is another kind of important thing to do.
Thank you. All those things are key. I think that a financial officer like a CFO or an outsource CFO can be really helpful for cashflow if that's an issue. But the beauty of plastic surgery is that we do something that costs a lot of money. Okay. And we charge up front. So, a lot of us are collecting at a good rate.
You're able to maintain your practice and float it. If you're doing reconstruction and you're getting paid nine months after you did the procedure, it's going to be really hard to start. I would not recommend starting up a private practice in Beverly Hills. You know, you need to be doing something where you can generate.
Profit, and you can operate on a budget where, you know, you're getting money in and money out in order to stay afloat in times when it's lean versus times when it's not. So, I think that those are the main issues. So, I would say number one is probably compliance and making sure that you're compliant and that you're up to date and you have insurance, that you're safe.
You know, you're protecting yourself from all the bad things that can happen. And number two is hiring. And number three is financial planning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Regarding the marketing part though, because it is so competitive there and there are so many surgeons there, did you have any apprehension about going solo? Or did you want to stay in a practice with others? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Or how did you, how did you jump? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: I jumped very, quite easily. Okay. So, I knew from the moment that I started that there was either going to be the exit strategy was one of two options in Marina plastic surgery, either acquire the practice or move on because he was at a point in his career where he was ready to sell.
And there were some, there were some changes that happened in that first year. So, my first year of practice was great, but then there were some changes in the structure of the practice that happened right after that that basically made the decision for me. So, I said, okay, it's time for me to move on, go do my own thing now in the practice with Sheila's office, which was a great practice and similarly, very supportive.
She's great mentor, really thoughtful surgeon, and also just like a really thoughtful business person. She basically presented me with some options and she really wanted me to come on full time as an employee. And I just decided that I really admired her, admired her practice, but I said, you know, I think that at this point, it's probably better for me to kind of go out there and figure it out.
For myself. And she had always taught me that from the beginning, like the very first day I started working in her office, she sat me down and said, who's your most valuable employee? And I had this whole list. And she was like, you're not on the list. She's like, delete, she's like, rip this up, put your name down.
You're the most like, you're the most important employee in your practice. And you need to be thinking about how you optimize your own practice, your own flow, and how you build that over time. So, it was really inspiring message, which is like, you know, you need to understand that in plastic surgery, you're the profit center, right?
So, you need to, you need to focus on that and build it up. But so, I've been around both of those environments. I knew, I knew that at some point I was going to take a leap and I finished my boards I had moved out of Sheila's office at that point. And then I was looking at, at grant and looking at the Marina and the decision had basically been made for me.
So, then I said, okay, well, I'm going to just start. And I'm going to find a location, start turning the knobs, build up my practice. I had saved every penny from the day that I started my practice. I had saved every penny. I did not spend money on ridiculous things. I drove the same car that I drove in residency, which is a 2013 BMW, which I still have and still do drive.
Because. I understood the importance of cash flow, but also because I don't, those things don't make me happy. You know, I could buy a Lamborghini if I wanted to right now, but it doesn't make me happy and it doesn't improve my patient care. So, it's not something that falls within the mindset of what I need to be able to grow my practice or to be comfortable and or happy.
So, you need stability, you know, you can buy, I bought a house, which was, I think, a very valuable move at the time that I bought it in the midst of the pandemic, there was no question I had to be done because of how. Everything was at, you know, financially at that time. And it's like historically low interest rates and all these other things.
Every, every other decision that I've made financially has been focused on how am I going to continue giving better care? How do I invest more money back into my practice to improve patient outcomes, to improve the quality of the care that I give, to improve the experience for patients, because everything else follows.
You know, money follows care and truth is you cannot, you can never overlook good surgery. Excellent surgery always wins because there's a lot of bad surgery. 90 percent of plastic surgery, I think is bad, is not good. And so, if you're providing good surgery or great surgery, you're already a step ahead of everyone else.
But if you, for one second, think If you forget to realize, if you forget to be critical of your own results, or you for one second think that you can out market bad surgery, or you can, you can put money into a funnel and that's going to just generate patients, like you're, you've already lost the game.
You might as well just take your coat off, hang it up on a door and walk out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you opened your door to your own practice, did you have a following already or did you start from scratch? And if so, how do you do that? How do you enter a marketplace and position yourself? Okay, everybody, I'm here now. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
I'm in Beverly Hills, and this is me. How do you do that? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: I had been doing it for about, you know, 12 to 15 years. I mean, from when I started doing, you know, my PhD, right? I had been building my brand, building a position online and social media, but also building up myself in academics. I mean, I had written over 170 peer reviewed publications when I decided to make that move.
I presented almost 800 abstracts at national meetings. I've been around the country. I know almost every plastic surgeon in America. You know, I mean, I had been at, I'd interviewed at 28 different locations for residency, not because I thought I was going to go to those places, but because I thought maybe I'd be back for fellowship or maybe as a job as an attending, I had built up marketing from that point.
And, I built my reputation as a resident, so all the orthopedic surgeons know me, all the, you know, surgeons know me, general surgeons, cardiac, vascular, dermatologist, because I was always that guy that they could trust. I was always that guy in the hospital who would show up when they would call for a consult.
I was never a jerk, I was never mean in the operating room, so I had, you know, I built up my reputation with blood, sweat, and tears over a long period of time, and you better believe that that made a difference. Even after my fellowship year, when I started my first year of practice, I did almost 209 cases in my board collection period, which is unheard of.
That's a very large number of cases to do in that period of time in a practice where you're not necessarily being funneled all the patients, right? Where you're, you're a person who's just getting started. And when another person came in after me, the next, that next year with a similar deal, They did less than half of those number of cases because where are those people coming from?
I looked at my numbers, I looked at my patients, their referrals from my friends from residency, their referrals from my family, my friends, people from where I grew up, all those things, you know, your, your ability to grow your practice. It's not just about marketing. You know, at that time I only had 1800 followers on Instagram.
It's not about that. It's about your putting your boots on the ground. It's about relationships with other physicians, understanding what providers are sending you patients and why. Taking great care of the few patients you have because they are your number one source for additional patients, you know, taking great care of the people you have great results and great care are the fastest way to build a successful practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you were living off of non-competing surgeons who were referring you their patients and it wasn't recon, they were giving you cosmetic patients? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Cosmetic patients. Yeah, you better believe it. That's unusual. So, good for you. Everyone's sending me their wife, their sister, their friend, because I was the guy.
You know, like in residency, they knew, I knew how to do a free flap, you know, in third, you know, I was doing very. high level surgery at a low, you know, they saw my skills, they knew how I thought and I was always right there for them. So, they're going to send me their loved one and they're going to trust that I'm going to do the right thing and that I'm not going to offer them something I don't know how to do.
Right. So, yeah, it was a lot of non-competing surgeons, but also other plastic surgeons and other people. And I'm telling you like you, that your biggest referral source are people within medicine. And if someone refers me a patient, that's a doctor. If a doctor refers me a patient, they have a very high booking rate, like 90 percent because you know, they, they trust that doctor or their family member.
And I've also operated on a lot of nurses and doctors because they see me operating, you know, they're an anesthesiologist who's walked me out and watched me operate there for me, their friend or their sister. They're a nurse who's been in the operating room with me. They come to me for surgery or they send me their best friend because they see how I operate, how I'm with people and what my results look like, you know, branding.
So, there's a difference between like messaging, like your brand versus like your organization or your company. So, let me give you an example Hyatt or Hilton or let's say Hilton, right? That's not really a brand, okay? It's not a brand because you could be in a Hilton and you're in a room and you could be a.
Either at a Hyatt or an embassy suites or Marriott and all feels the same, right? Starwood, whatever, any of those, they literally all feel the same. The only difference is price. When you go to log on and you look to see what it costs for one night in San Diego at the Hyatt versus the Hilton versus the Regency.
But if you're in the room, it feels the same. Now, whereas if you look at Nike. That's a brand, right? Why is Nike a brand? Well, because Nike focuses on athletes and they don't market you the shoes and say, they're, they're 18 instead of the 19 Reeboks they're selling you the brand, they're saying we celebrate athletes, we celebrate athleticism.
We create innovative new technology and we develop the field of athletics in order to improve the quality of athletics, you know, nationwide. So, that's the difference between like a brand and just like a name, right? There's a big difference. The same thing happens in medicine and in our practices. So, I look at myself as the brand and I say, how do I build that brand up?
I don't want to just be any other plastic surgeon. I want to be somebody who's doing something different, something that's unique and innovative. And I also want to be someone who's pushing the limits and the boundaries and who's present at a high level and all those other arenas. That's a huge, that's a huge kind of mind shift.
And you have to really fully commit to it because you can't just dabble when you're saying, I'm going to be innovative. I'm going to try something. I'm going to get out there and get up on stage.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There are a couple of things I noticed on your website that are different. One is that tummy, the painless tummy tuck, because anyone who's been around that knows that's a really tough recovery is probably the toughest one. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
But you're saying, nope, it's painful or painless. And then like the drain lists you know, no drains. Well, is that how you're differentiating yourself? And are you getting any blowback from that, from your competitors? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah, well, okay. So, what I did was I said, Okay, what are the biggest impediments to cosmetic surgery to tummy tucks?
What are the things that people are afraid of when you talk to them about doing abdominoplasty? And the first thing is always pain. And the second thing is the drains, this number one and number two complaints. So, what I started doing years ago was saying, how do we optimize the perioperative pain control?
What are the ways, the strategies that we reduce the amount of pain patients feel during surgery, and why do other surgeons not do these things, or why do they fail, you know, when they attempt to do it?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And what's the answer to that? Because how can you do that when others can't? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: The answer is really straightforward.
It's basically a commitment to consistency and spending the money when you need to, and time in the operating room, because it's just as important as the outcome, as the way it looks. Okay, so if you say to yourself, what are my values, and my values are Patient surgical outcome, but also patient experience.
So, for me, my number one value is safety. Number two is the way that the quality of the result, the way they look. And number three is the experience. All of those things are within my value system. So, I look at those things and I put my money where my mouth is. So, yeah, it's going to take me time to develop a strategy to be able to do the numbing medication perfectly.
And it took me years to get that right. Okay. But then once you start getting it right, you start seeing patients that are like just taking one Tylenol. saying I'm not in pain and you're like, holy cow, this really does work. Then you start doing it and you say, okay, now, okay, that it was good. It was good.
Then it was bad. Okay. So, why did I, why was there inconsistency in these results? That patient was bigger. This one has a different metabolic rate with this type of medication. I didn't inject it in the right places here and there. Okay. I'm going to get more consistent at it. More, more, more at bats. I'm going to do a couple hundred of these.
Okay. Now it's really consistent. Okay. Now I'm going to do a study. That's what I did. So, I did a prospective study, 90 patients over three months. 95 percent of them pain scale 0 to 2 out of 10. How did they do that? Well, consistency. Now I published that in an article in ASJ, peer review. They looked at my data and they asked me to review my data because like you said, there's some blowback.
They're like, we don't believe you. They wanted to look at the charts. They want to see the patient information, all that stuff. They did all of that. And they said, wow, this is really compelling stuff. Not just charting that I did, because I also had the nurses recording in the aftercare facility. What's the pain scale on that?
And I wasn't looking at, you know, so this data was data that's there that, you know, we look back at retrospectively to. kind of capture after doing all that. I said, okay, we're able to combine the best possible approaches. So, tricks that we know in plastic surgery, like injecting before you cut, everybody knows that that if the brain doesn't sense pain while you're asleep, that reduces pain, that it feels afterwards.
And yet every plastic surgeon is in a hurry. Okay, so what do they do? They come in, inject, and cut immediately. They don't give time for the medication to set in, or they don't inject, they just cut. And they say the patient's asleep, but then the patient moves, reacts, the anesthesiologist has to give more opiates to control the patient's heart rate, to keep it down, to reduce the blood pressure.
Now the patient's getting more opiates. Now when they wake up, they're more groggy, they're more nauseous. They have all those other complications, right? So, if I can inject before the knife touches and perfectly numb the body before I do anything, then the anesthesiologist doesn't have to give as many, as many opiates, doesn't have to give as many of those medications that are going to create other issues later on.
And then if I inject after everything's done, everything's exposed, I'm looking right where the nerves are. I do a selective nerve block with that long-acting medicine, the X Brow. I can get that same pain control up to seven days after surgery. Now this is a revolutionary approach. So, when I call it. What I called it in that paper, painless, drainless tummy tuck.
I was honestly shocked that they allowed me to publish that because no surgical procedure is painless. Everybody understands that pain accompanies any procedure where you have to cut an incision into the body where you have to basically get a result. But the whole concept was honestly kind of jokingly saying it's less pain.
Like the pain is less, it was kind of like a joke, like play on words initially, but then they adopted it and the editors and people said, well. The goal is to achieve that you don't always get it. Sometimes you're getting zeros out of 10 so you could say what you want. And when I talk to patients, I say no surgery is painless.
I'm quoting this article that I wrote. The whole goal is to make it as less pain as possible. So, at least you'll know if we do the procedure and you are in pain that we did everything possible. Everything that's technically possible that is up to date and scientifically proven to give you the best possible experience.
That does differentiate me in the market. I had a patient today in my office who told me that she saw another surgeon. And he said, I don't use X Bowl because I want you to feel pain because I don't want you to pull your stitches out. I don't want you to mess anything up. I want you to lay down and not move for three months.
I'm like, that's ridiculous. Like you shouldn't have a surgeon who wants you to be in pain. That, that, that actually is, is against the, the pledge that we make in medicine to first do no harm. You know, our goal as physicians is to reduce pain. We want to treat it, prevent it, and produce and reduce it.
So, if somebody's telling you that they want you to feel pain, I would run. That's not, that's not the surgeon that you want to be with. That's somebody who is clearly a little detached from the process of surgery and does not have empathy for your experience if they're not trying to reduce your pain.
So, I use that as a marketing tool. In my own practice, I talk to patients about pain. And I say there are two things that separate me from what other surgeons do. Number one is pain control and number two are the stitches that I use on the inside to recreate the natural shapes. That leads me to the drainless part.
So, I don't care about drains. You can have a drain or not use a drain. That's not the issue. What I care about is how do we get a better-looking result? How do we recreate the natural connections between the body and the skin? Those natural connections that create the line down the middle and the lines down the sides.
Those tummies aren't flat. They have shadows, they have hills and valleys. How do we recreate those shapes in order to give a better-looking result? Because in my opinion, most tummy tucks look bad. Most tummy tucks look flat with a little hole in the middle. There's a little, it looks like a donut or a little circle in the middle, a bad scar, which is too high and a flat result and a square result.
I don't want that. I want to create natural shapes. I want to see the hills and valleys. I want to see the shadows that hint to natural anatomy. And it just makes sense to do that because just like in the deep plane facelift, where I reattach the fascial structures to where they belong, I do that in the abdomen.
I reconnect the skin to what's deeper because there were connections there before. Why wouldn't you recreate them? In doing so, it gets rid of the space where fluid could accumulate. So, you don't have to use a drain. You don't need to do it because there's no place where that fluid can recumulate. And in the studies that I've done, one in 2013 with 417 patients, one in 2015 with 619 patients, and then additional studies that I've published, basically what we found is that there's actually less of a rate of seroma if you do this drainless approach than if you do a traditional approach and put in a drain.
Why is that? Because we get rid of the space where fluid could accumulate. The rate with a drainless tuck is around 2 percent in the published literature, not just in my studies, but in all studies that have been written. The rate in a traditional tuck is 9%, 9%. That's fivefold more. That means you have to treat nine patients with a drain to prevent a seroma in one patient in a traditional tuck.
But if you're doing my tuck, I would have to put drains in 49 patients to prevent a seroma in one. So, it doesn't make sense to put a drain in if you're doing progressive tension sutures, if you're doing the things that I'm doing in the. Tuck. That's why when my competitors say, well, you should just put a drain in anyways, like we just don't want fluid.
Oh, I do. They say I do the same thing, but then I still put a drain. I'm like, clearly, you're not doing the same thing. And if you are that stupid, because you're now subjecting 49 patients to a drain that don't need it. And the number needed to treat is very high to prevent that complication. This is biostatistics.
This is something I learned back in my PhD, right? What is the number needed to treat to get a desired effect? Whereas if you're doing traditional tuck, it makes sense to put drains in nine people to prevent it in one, because that's not a lot of number needed to treat to prevent this aroma, but yeah, I've gotten feedback, even from people like my old mentors saying, you know, talking trash about the procedure, even on their own kind of social media or their own, their own their own sites, but it's funny because if you listen, they're actually saying throughout the concept or throughout the discussion.
Well, you know, yeah, pain control. Yeah, it is good to do the things, but then they'll say something like, but he basically just uses X barrel at the end. It's like, well, then you weren't listening because no, it's all the other things I did before surgery that made the biggest difference. Thereβre other medications I use that are oral medicines and injectable medicines and topical medicines that I use.
And if you could understand those, then you'll understand how, what I do is actually light years different from what they're doing, but they don't even care to know. They just assume that I'm using it as a marketing ploy. They're not looking into the science or they haven't been to the meetings. Or they haven't read an article in 20 years, which is fine.
I mean, like if they're producing good results and they're doing an okay thing in their own practice, that's fine. But I, you know, like I don't call up innovative people, you know, I don't call out people that are doing innovative things and say, I don't think that's scientifically valid. You know, I just look at what they're doing, do a little more research and make my own decisions about what I want to do in my practice.
And patients are smart. They're going to do the same, you know, patients are not dumb. They're the most well educated they've ever been. These days, they go on a deep dive, they come into my office. They say, I've read every one of your articles. I've watched all of your YouTube videos. I know everything about this procedure and this is what I want.
And that's what I want in my practice. So, the more than I'm messaging into the audience. Into the crowd about a different technique that's superior, that has scientific benefits. And, you know, and these are the risks, but these are the benefits, the better my patients are, the more they want the surgery, the more they're pre-selected to come to me.
So, if they don't want that, I'm never sitting in my office trying to sell them on my technique. They've already come to me because they've found it and they want it. I don't have to separate myself from. All the other, you know, tummy tuck surgeons in Beverly Hills, because the patients have already done that.
They've already said, this guy is innovative. He's got a PhD. He's a thinker. He's doing different things. That's who I want. And it's great. Cause then my brand can go like this. And, you know, people are criticizing what I'm doing or, you know, other practices. It's fine. They, they just haven't separated themselves from their group and they can't because they haven't figured out a new way to do it.
They're, they're, they're by definition doing the same thing everyone else is doing. And that's fine because they want to be mediocre, but I want it to be different.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But if you're getting different results and you're showing them, that's what the layperson needs. They a lot of people aren't going to read the medical articles, but if there's some way you can communicate this to patients where they get it, and the best way to do that is with photos. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
So, if you're showing peaks and valleys or grooves and curves and the others are showing the square, I mean, that just says it all right there. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: So, the patients make the decision for you, just like exactly what you're saying. But so that's, that's, those are the things that I do that are different, you know, the pain control and then the drainless approach.
Now, the other thing that's really important about. The drainless approach. It's not again, not about taking out the drains about the stitches inside. The other thing those stitches inside do that's really important. You basically pull the skin down, put a stitch, pull it down, put a stitch. So, you put tension across the skin as you're bringing it down to do your closure.
And then in the bottom, once you've, once you've taken all the tension off and you remove the skin, that's between these two layers and you go to close them, there's nothing pulling them apart because all the tension has been taken off. You just. Close it like the little incision gets closed, right?
Tension is what creates a thick, upraised, or wide scar. So, if there's no tension, there's no thick, upraised, or wide scar. So, they get a much better scar, a much better healing incision, and they can stand upright because they don't feel like they're about to rip apart when they stand up because the tension's been taken off.
So, these stitches on the inside are doing so many great things. It's not just about being drainless or removing the drain. It's about changing the way that the tummy looks, making it look more natural. offsetting tension for the best possible scar incision and allowing the patient to have a quicker recovery.
And when I talked, when I talked to patients about that, they're like, duh, this is what I want. Darker skin patients want it because they don't want a bad scar. Patients that want the most pot, like this is technically the most skin you can remove. So, patients that you, in most times you'd have to leave a small vertical incision where the belly button was.
I get, I'm able to get that out in many cases where many surgeons say that they could not. Because a drainless approach gets between six and eight centimeters, more of skin out by stretching the skin. As you bring it down, it also is technically the only way, the way to remove the most amount of skin that you can remove with this procedure.
So, like, if I have a patient that comes back and they're like, do you think you could have taken more? It's like, no, absolutely not. And I can show them videos and pictures on table where we bring it all out. We, we first show them where it would be if we just did traditional, and then we show them how much further we get when we get those techniques.
And that's really a compelling story too, to show them, wow, you're by putting tension across the skin, you're stretching. it. You're actually dynamically changing the skin and that's what's giving you a much better result. That's fabulous.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And pain free is a big deal. Painless, minimal pain. People remember pain forever. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: So, yeah. And you know what else they remember? They remember when they had none. So, like I had a patient in my office today, who's day 10 and she has a dinner party scheduled at her house this weekend. And her friend came in today for a consult. And she said, my friend. Who you just did a tummy tuck on is hosting 25 people at her house next weekend.
How is that possible? Is she going to be able to walk? And I was like, well, she walked, she drove herself to the visit today. She looked pretty comfortable. I think she's going to be great. So, that kind of endorsement, she's going to have this party. Everyone's going to be there. Wow. Your body looks great.
I'm only two weeks out. People literally do not believe it. Like people will not believe her. She has to show them the incision and they actually think it wasn't a tummy. They're like, no, that's not what you had done because there's no way you'd be standing, walking, doing those things. So, it's like wildfire.
If you do it right. And they're in very, and they're very comfortable. They, they tell all their friends, everybody sees it and they know, you know, the husbands love it because they're like, I was so worried my wife was going to be crying, all this stuff. And she's, they're telling everybody, you know, that it creates a rapid conversion effect.
It's like, it spreads like wildfire because people don't believe them when they tell them what happened.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I noticed another thing coming up with patient trends and the wants that the wants they have, the likes and dislikes. Another one seems to be this anesthesia. How, I know you've done some videos on what you can do under local and Twilight versus general. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Are you, how are you handling anesthesia and addressing with the patients? And do you find that a lot of them, they're not interested in general? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah, so the most advanced approach to anesthetics these days is something called total IV anesthesia. It's basically the use of IV only medications, which reduces the toxic effects of some of the gas or let's say inhaled anesthetics.
It can reduce nausea, it can reduce downtime, and it's a very comfortable way to go to sleep. sleep and to wake. So, propofol is kind of the basis for TIVA, but there's other medications that are part of the βTotal IV Processβ. When I talk to patients about surgery, I always focus on those three things that I brought up before, right?
Safety, outcome and experience. Now, the safest possible anesthesia that you can get. Is anesthesia where you're asleep, and there's a tube in your mouth to assist you with breathing. That tube may not necessarily be breathing for you, but it can be maintaining the openness of the airway, so you're breathing on your own, but you have an airway in place, so that if there were any kind of issue, you would have control over things.
That's what I do in my practice for most of the surgeries that I do. Now, of course, There is a move towards non anesthetic based procedures, or we'll say topical anesthetic only, topical analgesia, not anesthesia, or the use of trochees and all these other things, you know, like oral medications and injectable medicines so that it can be done, you know, in the office.
And I think that a lot of influencers and kind of famous people have been actually, interestingly, Doing these things at shop shops, okay, and advertising them saying that this is the way to go because I don't want downtime. I want to do under local and all this other stuff. The truth is, the quality of the results, let's say for liposuction, is not as good if you do it under local.
I don't care who you're going to give me that argument with, but I'll tell you why. Because when you take a cannula and you put it in the body, if you reach the fascia, and the fascia is not numb, or even if it is numb, it, it bothers the patient. It hurts, it tickles. βtickle lipoβ, whatever you want to call it.
But what's the first thing that I do if the patient says, ow, I stop. So, the quality of the result is not as good because you're balancing patient experience with the aesthetic outcome. And anytime you're balancing things, it's 50, 50. It's not a hundred zero, right? So, the outcome is, it's not going to be like this, right?
The outcome patient experience, it's going to be here. And that means outcomes not as good, but patient experience is better. Now, when the patient's fully asleep, I can do this because the patient's asleep and we're numbing them using those medications, but they're not moving. They're not reacting to the movements.
So, I know I can go as deep as I want and create the deepest hills and valleys. True high-def surgeons. Most of them, people are doing VASER. They're doing high-def definition, really high quality. Liposculpture are doing it asleep because VASER hurts like hell, even if you're numbed up. Right. And skin tightening procedures like Renuvion and body tight, those create a tremendous amount of heat under the skin.
Those can create pain too. The last thing you want is your patient saying, Holy shit, this really hurts. Or like. I might be, you know, the doctor was torturing me during the procedure. So, if you look around at the high-level surgeons that are producing really great results, that's what they're doing. If you look at the chop shops, they're advertising, no anesthesia, do it under local, all this.
They're not showing you good results. Okay. They're not doing that, but they're showing you a cheap price. And a fast turnaround time. The other thing that they're doing is they're saving the anesthesia. They're not paying an anesthesiologist. They're not paying for that time in the operating room. And they don't have to go to an operator room.
So, in many of these practices, you look into the person who's doing the procedure. Maybe they had their medical board suspended. And so, they don't have access to a hospital. They're not allowed to be credentialed in a hospital. So, they have to do it in, in their office under local with some pronox, right?
Or they have some other issue associated with their practice, or they're not a plastic surgeon, you know, heaven forbid, they're not, they're not. even, you know, qualified to do the procedure. That's, those are the people that are promoting those concepts that are promoting local anesthesia in the office because they can't go to a surgery center.
They don't have privileges or they can't go to a hospital. I've seen it so many times that I'm a little jaded. So, when a patient comes to me and says, Oh yeah, you know, this guy, and then we say, okay, Google that page. Let's look it up. What are their, what are their credentials? Now, Google medical board and figure out whether or not they've had any, oh, oh, so they don't have a medical license.
Okay, or their license has been suspended or temporarily under probation. Maybe that's why they're offering you the procedure in their office, you know, under local anesthesia. It's not really about the patient's needs. You know, as a doctor, you got to think what's the best experience for the patient and what's the safest thing.
And that really is TIVA with a tube in a setting where there's another person. Now, this is the last thing that's really important. If I'm operating in a surgery center, And there's a board-certified MD anesthesiologist taking care of the patient. That's another doctor that's in the room that's looking at what I'm doing.
And they're ensuring that the quality of the outcome is good, but also that patient safety is really good, but also that the outcome is good. Because if I'm like doing something and it doesn't look good, they're going to be like, That doesn't look good. You know, are they like, you're really going to stop right now?
You know, the people that are around you are going to be critical of what you're doing. So, the more, the more standardized that procedure, that protocol and that setting, the safer that setting, the better the outcomes, because there are people all around that are scrutinizing what you're doing. If you're doing it in your back office.
Over lunchtime with a little bit of numbing and there's no one else in the room or maybe a nurse. There's no kind of quality, you know, control that's happening right in front of you. And there's a lot of risk associated with that. And the most dangerous thing in liposuction is not actually anesthesia.
It's the anesthetic. It's the analgesia. Because the lidocaine, the concentrations and the toxicities associated with those medications are the most, are the most difficult things to overcome. And when people are doing high def lipo or high volume lipo awake, they got to use very high concentrations of lidocaine.
Lidocaine is a very toxic medication. And at high doses, it can cause cardiac conduction abnormalities. It can cause seizures. It can cause all kinds of problems. And it is one of the reasons why people have had deaths and other issues with liposuction. So, those people that are saying this is safer, they are just Not they're not being honest with you because local lipo can be just as dangerous as anesthesia as general anesthesia If it's not monitored properly Remember that is the thing like those types of procedures are would have led to very famous celebrity deaths because of overdoses and lidocaine fluid shifts changes in the fluid balances and not doing it in a setting where you have an Anesthesiologist taking care of the physiology while you're taking care of the patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm going to push back a little bit though.
I've I personally have had a deep plane facelift under the local βTwilightβ, like a colonoscopy. And that was amazing because I also had a, had one under general. And frankly, I get sick as a dog under general and I can't, I can't regroup fast enough. And I loved the local twilight, whatever that was called. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Right. So, you said just like a colonoscopy, right? So, what do they give you with a colonoscopy? Propofol. TIVA. Total IV Anesthesia. So, the difference between what you had and what I'm saying is simply placing a tube and you probably did have an oral airway or some other device in your mouth during the procedure so that if they needed to, they could intubate you.
I'm saying I just put a tube in there that helps to assist that process, whether it's a you know, an endotracheal tube or whatever it is that you want to call it, but that is what I'm doing. But I don't tell patients, this is twilight. You're going to be awake because they're not going to be awake.
They're going to be asleep. You don't want to be awake. Yeah. No one wants to be awake. So, what you're describing is what I'm talking about. Teva. And that's not just with facelift. That could be with all different types of surgeries. The concept is using the IV based anesthetics. So, that's a very comfortable process.
Like you said, better than the general that you're used to, because. traditional general anesthesia, they use a lot of inhaled gases that can be, that can cause other, you know, nausea, other kinds of issues. But it's not just about what we do during surgery, it's also about what we do before and after. I use something called Amend before surgery.
It's a pill that every patient takes an hour or so before surgery. It's been shown to prevent the nausea that can occur from the anesthetics. This is a breakthrough medication that's 15 or so years. But it really does make a tremendous difference. We also use Zofran and the other medications that are injectable IV medicines.
But this makes a huge difference and prevents nausea in my practice. And most surgeons that are using it will tell you they swear by it. I've only had one nauseous patient in the last like three years because of this medication. So, it's not just about General versus TIVA versus Twilight. It's also about what are the other things that the doctor's doing as part of the perioperative management to reduce those other types of symptoms and issues.
So, I would just say, we tend to oversimplify things. We tend to say the red pill or the blue pill. What about the green pill? What about the yellow pill? You know, what about the purple pill? All the other pills that you take, it's not just blue or red. It's how all the other medications we use in conjunction with the experience with the facility and with the other physicians and extenders that we're using.
How do those equate to giving you the best possible perioperative experience? I would even say hyperbaric oxygen chamber treatment, nutrition supplement, all that makes a difference in terms of the outcomes and the experience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I'll just say as a patient, the more comfortable I am, the more likely you are to see me again for more surgery, but just saying so we have to move on to social media because I'm assuming you have a very nice website. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Google's been messing around with everyone's search rankings. So, where are you at with marketing channels? What are you using to attract new patients to you? What efforts are you going through? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: I'm really an organic guy so I, I don't really spend money on marketing and social media. I have an Instagram page with about 13, 000 followers, and I'm on TikTok with around 92, 000 followers.
In both of those platforms, I utilize the platform to spread education. I don't run over an implant with my car, I don't dance. I talk about procedures with clarity and with transparency. And talk to patients about what the experience is like and why. And I try to dispel rumors and talk very openly about plastic surgery and results.
I talk about procedures that work and ones that don't. That's what I do. And with that organic approach, I'm able to generate plenty of new patients that come to the practice. Now with my website. I do use Google appropriately, but I don't target SEO terms that I think everyone targets. I target slightly different terms that help to improve the kind of show.
I used to be one of the guys, one of the few guys doing deep plane, but now even people who do traditional facelifts say they're doing a deep plane facelift and market that or they market that term so that they can capture the share. The truth is Google is the worst place to put your ad spend if you're trying to market your practice because SEO.
Is highly questionable, like you said, the algorithms are all over the place. The best place you're going to get identification and kind of, let's say the best way to increase your ranking on Google is to have authentic organic content that accurately reflects your practice and what you do, because that's how you build that kind of lily pad within the internet and within the world.
But I've been doing that. Actively building it for the last 15 years and in my practice, I've been heavily focused on building up reviews because reviews are where patients can see the quality of other patients experiences. And when I talk to patients about reviews and ask them to reviews, I do reviews on multiple platforms.
So, patients have reviewed me on everything from you know, vitals to WebMD, to Yelp, to Google, to RealSelf, all those places. And each of them has its own SEO that they're paying for. They're spending millions of dollars to increase their SEO on Google. So, I just piggyback off of what they're doing. I just say, great, thanks for promoting yourselves, put my reviews on that platform.
Now I'm visible, right? Because I don't have to pay Google to find me. I just have these other sites where organic reviews are done. I'm not paying for, and they're, and you're able to find me in those locations.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's enough? That's not enough to do in your area in Beverly Hills. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah. Yeah, because what's the most important thing?
What's the thing that separates me from other surgeons? What's the one? What's the most important thing to building your practice?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Patients being able to find you online. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Great surgery and great care. Patients being able to find you online is important. But guess what? 70 percent of my patients right now are referral and if they click the box and say, I found you online, they didn't find me online.
They were referred to me by a friend and then they Googled my name and then they found it, right? So, you're right. I think they were able to find me by Googling my name. They were able to find me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm the biggest proponent of word of mouth. I'm just saying you guys don't want, you don't want to hear that. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
You want to hear; how do you find more online? So, I'm just saying you, a good marketer can absolutely serve a really skilled surgeon for the short run. But in the long run, it fails because you take it. So, you get a thousand people in your office and your results are mediocre. And 30 patients are really unhappy. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Now you've just lost thousands of patients to come, right? Each patient is an opportunity to grow your practice by a hundred patients or to lose a thousand. Okay. Because if you're not delivering great care, great results, great outcomes, you're going to lose. You're going to lose you're going to lose big.
Okay. Because you can't hide, you can't hide only for so long. Can you hide crappy reviews?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know why else you need social media is just to have a larger reach because I'm assuming you're, you're going out of town or out of the area and you can only do that nowadays with social media. So, is that one of your marketing strategies? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah. I mean, I market outside of my community and probably about 60 percent of my patients fly in from outside of California, you know, so. I think that that's very, that you're right. That's very it's, it's about access and reach, but actually the most important and most critical component of social media, the thing that it does is it actually gives your patients a little insight into you as a person, and that actually improves your ability to connect and it improves your conversion rate.
Because let's face it, if this is the marketing funnel, I don't want patients up here. I don't want patients right here because the most expensive leads. Are up here, awareness, right? Identifying your practice and who you are. These are very expensive leads. You pay a lot of money to be able to say, Hey, I'm Dr.
Gould, and there's all these other surgeons, but this is me. And this is what I do. Right. And then only one out of a thousand of them is going to make it down the funnel. And then the ones that are here, they're ready to make their decision. They're very inexpensive leads. Okay. They are ready to book and you don't have to spend a lot of money to find them if they've already found you.
So, I don't focus on a traditional funnel. I don't, I don't create a traditional approach. I don't mark it up here. I mark it down here. My marketing is focused. Patients have already seen a surgical result of mine. And then they book with me. So, I do my patients that are with me. I focus on those relationships.
You know, they say, Oh, I've got a friend coming away. Oh, really? What's their name? Okay. This is their book. Okay, great. I'll reach out to them and talk to them. And I'll build up and then I go back to the person who referred to me. Thank you so much for sending your friend for a facelift. I'd like to send you to Milk and Honey for a massage and a facial on us at Dr.
Gould Plastic Surgery. And this is just a great a great a great way for me to say thank you for sending another exceptional friend. You are a wonderful person and all your friends are going to be wonderful too. And I thank you for helping me build my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. How much time do you think you're spending on social media per week? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: At least four hours a day. Yeah. So, probably, probably 21 hours a week, and that's a lot.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the part that's, that's messing with my head because I used, as a marketing consultant, I used to say, come on, you surgeons can't afford four hours a day or, you know, that kind of time. But then again, you, you, you're almost forced to, because if Google's not going to rank you online and, and they're not going to give you the reach you want, you are kind of stuck with that. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
But have you thought about like outsourcing it or using agencies or? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Yeah, I'm terrified of that. I have a person who films for me and does editing. Yeah. But I create all the content and all the ideas are mine. And I'm terrified of what would happen if I turn over the brand on social media to someone else.
I agree. You know, because you have to be very cognizant. And most of the great surgeons are producing their own content. They are. At least are very tightly in control of it. Like Mike Nyack. Still does all of his own stuff, you know, he does all his own videos, all his own stuff. I mean, Ben has a whole army, a whole squadron behind what he's doing, but he's very tightly controlling the messaging, the 'befores and afters', the way that those go out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He's meeting them every week and they are strategizing, yeah. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Oh, every day. I mean, he's not advocating that. Yeah, no. So, so, but what you said about surgeons not having enough time to do that. Well, I'll just tell you this, like tomorrow, my day starts at seven and it ends at eight, eight 30 PM in terms of my booked time on the books with patients.
But then guess what I'm going to. Do after, I mean, I'm going to go to the gym at 4 30 in the morning and then after seven or whatever at night, I'm going to head home and then I'm going to sit on my computer and do about two and a half to three hours of work looking at the social media, looking at the different things that have come through there, catching up on emails, connecting, doing those other things.
I can outsource some of the other marketing. I can outsource some of the direct consumer marketing, some of the marketing within the practice, all those other things that build the other more traditional kind of pathways without sacrificing what's happening in that social media kind of realm. But for your social media to be good, you have to interact with it every day.
And if you don't, it's not going to, it's not going to fly. It's not going to go on the algorithms. It's not going to be bumped up on the for you page, even worse. So, in plastic surgery, because plastic surgery gets shadow banned because we put before and afters. So, I just created two new pages on Instagram faces by Dr.
Gould and bodies by Dr. Gould to be able to show people those outcomes and to do it on a private page. So, it doesn't get banned because on my page. It's really interesting. I was doing stuff and I can see how the waves of kind of what I can do go up and down. And then I look at like, I'll do like a reel and it'll get like tons of views, but it's still not on the for you page.
But if I put my account from pub from a professional account back to a private account or to a personal account, then all of a sudden, their views go way up. So, I know that the algorithms are looking at what we're doing. They're not dumb. They know what we're trying to promote on Tik TOK.
I've had several times where I have a video that's going viral, it's catching fire, and then just wham, it just slams, they just slam it down because they, they, the algorithm sees that it's plastic surgery and they are trying to quote unquote create body positivity and they want to do that in their space.
It's just shocking to me because you see all the other content that's on Instagram on TikTok that's not surgical that would be user generated basically pornography or you for you type stuff that is designed to Moves people from the TikTok platform to fans only, or those other pages and the, and the algorithms are totally okay with that.
And the reason why, because of money, right? Because the group that's behind only fans, they're, they're multi-billion-dollar conglomerate. They're spending money, they're paying TikTok to be able to promote those ideas. And the influencers that are, that are with agency, they're spending a hundred to 200 K a year.
To promote themselves and their brand. So, Instagram will let them do whatever they want. So, if you're a doctor and you're worried about getting shadow banned, there's a really simple solution. Pay Instagram 150, 000 a year. I have several people who've done this. They will give you your own Instagram insider, a person within Instagram who can help to direct your clientele, your traffic, all that stuff.
And all of a sudden, our videos will start to get a hundred thousand views to 200, 000 views. It's very simple. You got to pay to play a
Catherine Maley, MBA: phone number. When your site goes down, you get the red phone number, the red phone, then you can call and it goes right back up. Otherwise, you're dead, right? How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Because Zuckerberg needs money.
They're badly struggling. Meta is struggling since they developed the platform. They lost a lot of, a lot of money and time and marketing, several platforms that have not worked. What they've come out with threads is like mediocre at best, and they have to generate a ton of money to be able to get the money that they need.
To push what they were trying to push the, the new space for meta kind of in, you know, basically the virtual reality platform that they were trying to develop and that's failed miserably. And all the other places have failed, you know, like the open seas failed all these NFTs where they were trying to sell property online have failed.
So, they had a ton of money they invested. So, now they're trying to recoup some of those losses or pay for some of those things by pushing people into a corner so that they have to pay for marketing on Instagram. And once you understand that, you realize that the most valuable platform is not Instagram and it's not TikTok.
It's actually YouTube because the YouTube videos can be promoted on many different platforms. YouTube is Google. Google gets paid every time you leave the site. So, YouTube will incentivize people to click off of your video to your website. And they're perfectly okay with that because. But, you know, pay for click is what Google is all about.
So, I think that in a modern world, you have to look at all the different social media sites, assess them, assume how they're going to work in your practice, and then be present in at least two of them. And, you know, there are places that are, that are real estate that's expensive and places that's real estate that's cheap, right?
So, expensive real estate is Instagram. It's like Beverly Hills. You got to pay to play very expensive, but very effective. Inexpensive. Snapchat, LinkedIn, all these types, Lemonade, all these other types of sites where there's nobody on there, but you could be the only plastic surgeon that's on there, you know, or there's very, there's like tons of real estate that you can buy.
It's not very effective, but you can all of a sudden be the biggest voice in that space like, you know, chat rooms and things like that. So, I've actually experimented with all the different, you know, areas and I'm in, in all these different areas because I like to see, okay. Is there a deal to be had over here, you know, and in a chat room style, you know, website or on Twitter or one of these other places, or, and then also have a little bit of a platform on Instagram and big following on Tik TOK.
Cause that's a viral location. And now I'm in the process where I'm building up the YouTube. So. YouTube for me started a couple of years ago, they came to me and they gave me verification as one of the very first plastic surgeons is verified on YouTube. And I haven't really fully expanded that platform, but they did that because of my work with the editorial board with ASJ.
They saw what I was doing. They saw the research that I was doing. They said, this guy is like a voice for knowledge and plastic surgery. And I connected them with ASJ. We created a whole account there to build up how we, how we get content out there. And because of that I got kind of the check mark in YouTube at a very early stage for plastic surgery.
Now my goal over the next three years is to build that up and to really make the YouTube channel something that I'm proud of that really provides not just marketing but knowledge. We're really adding knowledge to patients about the experience of surgery, transparency to see what it's going to be like, and a real understanding of what it'll be for them when they go through the procedure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. We're going to wrap it up now because I'm pretty sure we're past an hour. Last question, tell us something we don't know about you. How did or does this relate to or impact you developing your βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ technique?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Wow. Well, there's, I mean, there's not much to know about me outside of medicine. I think the thing to know that people don't know is that, you know, for me this, there really is no other thing that, you know, I'm not a great golfer.
I'm a terrible, I mean, I grew up fly fishing. I'm a good fisherman, but I'm a terrible athlete. Like I'm not good at basketball. I'm I don't, you know, I played baseball, football, I lift a lot of weights, but that's just to stay in shape so I can be better in the operating room. For me, the main thing is the main thing.
I am fully focused on plastic surgery. I am obsessed with it. I'm passionate about it. I want to make it better and I want to be a leader. And in the next five years, I want my name to be heard. You know, I want people to know my name as a household name. I am fully committed to that. And because of that, all those other things kind of go away.
I'm not married. I don't have kids. I'm really focused on this one thing. And really trying to perfect it and be as good as we can at it. That's something that it may sound kind of strange or a little bit robotic, but the truth is I'm fully committed to that idea. And I know that it takes a lot of energy.
I give all of my time right now, and that's the most valuable resource that we have, but there is nothing else for me at this point. Now there's other businesses and things that I'm involved in, but they're all in the aesthetic space focused around improving patient care and getting better outcomes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. I would focus while you can, especially while you're young and you're still trying to figure this out to add a family to all of that can be complicated. So, so I'll, I'll be interested to watching you grow and your career. You're off to a very good start. By the way, if anybody wanted to get a hold of you, which there's a chance they will, what would be the best way?
I know your website is Dr. Gould Plastic Surgery and Gould is spelled G O U L D. How do you say it? Gould?
Daniel Gould, MD, PhD: Gould. Yeah. Some people say 'Gold'. I'm okay with that. You know, synonymous with plastic surgery. It's my midwestern accent. Yeah, the best way to reach me is through the website. So, via email, drgould@drgouldplasticsurgery.com or through social media on Instagram @drgouldplasticsurgery or on the TikTok, drgould.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. All right, we're going to wrap it up now. Thank you so much, Dr. Gould, for attending Beauty and the Biz. I really appreciate it.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Gouldβs βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ procedure.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Gould you can reach out to his website at, DrGouldPlasticSurgery.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Gould for sharing his story on developing the βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuckβ.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βPainless & Drainless Tummy Tuck β with Daniel Gould, MD, PhDβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Rodman has a transgender niche practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Transgender Niche β with Regina E. Rodman, MD".
For a surgeon to enter the marketplace in todayβs crowded marketplace, it can be daunting. How do you differentiate enough to stand out and capture the attention of patients?
One way is to offer services that your competitors donβt and specialize in a niche market segment, while catering to its unique needs.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Regina Rodman, MD, a facial plastic and craniofacial surgeon in private practice in Houston and Dubai, specializing in bony contouring of the chin, jaw and forehead.
That training and experience has led her to specialize in gender affirmation and facial feminization where she has quickly built a name and reputation for herself around the US and the world.
Hereβs what we talked about:
- How she quickly learned she was meant to be in solo practice
- How she built a name for herself in the gender affirmation niche
- Performing 12-hour surgeries and Β½ coming from out-of-town
- How she markets to this specific niche
Visit Dr. Rodmanβs website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you! Click below:
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Transcript:
Transgender Niche β with Regina E. Rodman, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: βHello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Rodman has a transgender niche practice.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's special guest is Dr. Regina Rodman, who has a transgender niche practice. She's a facial plastic surgeon. Plastic and cranial surgeon in private practice in Houston and Dubai, which we'll talk more about. She's specializing in bony contouring of the chin, jaw, and forehead.
Now, Dr. Rodman attended Rush University in Chicago for medical school and her Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery training at the University of Texas, Houston. As well as advanced facial plastic surgery at SUNY Upstate.
Now, Dr. Rodman has written numerous articles and speaks all over the world on facial surgery, especially chin and jaw contouring, forehead reduction and facial feminization, and does mission work in India. She also has practices in both Houston and Dubai.
Dr. Rodman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, terrific. I'm so glad we finally met up at a conference. So, I was able to track you down and get you on the show. So, why facial plastic surgery? Why not some other specialty? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: That's a good question. So, the truth is, when I was, I always knew I was going to be a surgeon, like without a doubt, just the way that my brain works.
I love surgery because there is a concrete problem that I can fix with my hands and it's done. What I'm done. So, I always knew it was going to be surgery for me. I actually, when I was in medical school thought that I do orthopedic surgery, or for a minute I was, I was between the two, which is funny to me now because they're so opposite.
But I wanted, I thought I do, I like orthopedics because I'm really into fitness, I'm really into sports, and I do a lot of stuff on my social media, stuff about fitness, and just kind of like body positivity. But then I just remember I went and chatted with an orthopedic surgeon And he was like hammering something and it was like, doom, doom, and then he goes, okay, that's good enough.
And I was like, good enough. Like, it should be perfect. And then I remember in anatomy class, first year of med school, we did the head and the neck. Like, I loved it. Everyone else hated it. Cause it's, there's so many structures and everything is kind of packed together. And I knew right then. It's super high real estate.
Everything's important. You can't make a mistake. You have to know everything in three dimensions. And for me, that just, like, I knew right then that that's what I was going to do. I did a lot of art, actually, in my undergrad. And I've always liked that, especially 3D art. And so, it just, plastics felt like the nice meld of both of those things.
And like I said, it was really head and neck for me. Like I never really was interested in breast augmentation, body stuff. Although I mean, plastic surgeons do a lot of really amazing microvascular stuff. But for me, it was just always going to be the face.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then how did you get from fellowship to Houston in your own practice? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
What was that journey like? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah. So, the interesting thing, I had a little bit of a roundabout path, which everybody does kind of like, right? Like, it's just never what I thought I'd be doing. I really was focused on reconstructive surgery. I wanted to do microvascular. I want to do free flaps, work with cancer patients.
I was interested in all kinds of reconstruction. So, I did my fellowship up in SUNY Upstate in Syracuse, New York, which is a really interesting program because it's one of the few otolaryngology fellowships that I specializes in cranial facial surgery. So, we, the man who started the fellowship, Scott Tatum, kind of 20 years ago, 25 years ago, moved into basically a vacuum.
So, there's no oral surgery residency, there's no plastic surgery residency. So, he does everything. Like we did cranial synostosis, tons of cleft lip and palate, distractions, orthognathic surgery, genioplasty, frontal orbital advancements. I mean, these crazy bone surgeries. Which I liked. I was interested.
I also did a lot of microvascular surgery. When I was done training, I thought, I'll go into academics. That's what you do with this kind of training. And there were just no jobs. And that's a reality in facial plastics. A lot of times there's like one job maybe for all 65 applicants. So, it just wasn't an option for me at that year.
So, I started in private practice with a group the head of which was a craniofacial plastic surgeon. So, we got to do some interesting cases and then eventually I left that group and decided to start my own practice. And so, what I've done in my own practice, which like I said, is not really kind of what I thought I'd be doing, but I had so much training in jaw and chin and I felt like I could do, you know, these really dramatic jaw, double jaw surgeries in private practice, I had learned about V line surgery.
Which is really popular in South Korea for the angle of the mandible is removed. And the point is to make the jaw a little bit more V shaped, popular with people who have kind of a square jawline. So, I kind of started marketing that, I put some of that out there on social media, did a few of those patients.
And then one day a transgender woman emailed me and said, Oh, what will you work with? Transgender patients and I'm sure absolutely. So, I did her chin and jaw and a few other things and She was happy and then she told her friends who told her friend who told her friend and now that's really the bulk of what I do is those kind of Feminizing surgeries, although now, I do I still see a lot of transgender, non-binary patients, but there's also a lot of cisgender women who just think their brow bone is heavy, or want a narrower lower face, want their hairline lowered so it's kind of a fun niche practice that I have.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And how did you end up in Houston? Because it is one competitive area, isn't it? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, although the kind of, the interesting thing about doing something that not many people do is, there's still competition, but Not so much directly in my neighborhood. There is another woman who also does, has a similar practice in Austin, and we're friends and there's a few other people, but the good thing about doing these sort of difficult unusual surgeries is there's not as much competition, but the way I ended up is I did my residency here, and, You know, people don't have to stay where they did their residency, but you meet a lot of people in the community.
You meet people. I was plugged in. I was married at the time and my ex-husband worked here. So, it just seemed pretty natural that I was going to come back to Houston. As an aside I matched here and as everyone knows, you match where you match. And I remember being like, really? Like Texas? Really? I was living in Chicago at the time.
And I thought I was, I was, you know, I was happy to have a position and happy I got a spot, but I had a lot of anxiety about moving to Texas. And, Houstonβs great. It's great. Well, right now we're like the surface of the sun, but in general, it's just, it's a great place to live. It's not necessarily like a tourist destination, but it's nice to, it's affordable.
You can drive, you can park, and yet we still have all the benefits of, theater, opera, ballet, sports teams, you know, all the benefits of a major city. So, so it just made a lot of sense for me to just stay here. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Where are you originally from? Because you're not, you're not from Chicago. I can hear that. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: My parents are not in the military, although people think that my dad's actually a college professor. So, we moved for a master's degree, then doctorate, then postdoc, job. I kind of grew up all over. So, like I, Georgia, North Carolina, Indiana, went to high school in Minnesota, and then moved to Chicago to do a post baccalaureate program because I didn't originally go into medicine out of my undergrad.
And then, then matched in otolaryngology, and that's what brought me to Texas.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I gotcha. It's always a jagged road, you know? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: It is so jagged. So, yeah, I mean, from, from the start, I think on some level, I always knew I wanted to be a doctor, but. Going through undergrad, I went to a liberal arts school, and there was just so many things to learn, and I wanted to study abroad, and I knew I wanted to be a doctor, but I just felt like, not right now, and so I took all the music classes, like I said, I took a lot of art classes, I majored in anthropology, I actually worked as a social worker for a couple of years, and then, It just kind of kept coming up.
Like I would take my clients to the, to the doctor, their doctor's appointment and the doctors would, Oh, have you ever thought about medicine? And people just mentioned that. And finally, after a couple of years, I was like, okay, okay, I'm going to go back. I'm going to do it. And so, I wanted to go back and take all the.
science classes and stuff. But for me, that was the best path because I had tried a lot of stuff. And so, then once I got into med school, I mean, this was hard. And I felt like I've worked in an office. I've worked at this. I've worked at this. I don't want any of those jobs. So, when med school was really hard, it was helpful to think, yeah, but you've tried the other things.
You've, you've done all the things and this is, this is who you are. This is who you're supposed to be. And then just keep plugging.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you're happy with your decision? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Most days. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, like any job, there's frustrations, there's problems, but I mean, I think about this when some days I'm frustrated and I think like, Oh, I'm going to do something else with my life.
And then, but there is nothing, there is just nothing I love more than operating. Nothing, not even anything to do in my spare time. Like I love it. It is my happy place. And that it's like my superpower. I do these. Some of these facial feminization cases are 10 12 hours, it's just, I can do that, I'm not tired, I am not hungry, I'm just in a flow state and it's just, my brain is quiet and everything just happens and I just, I can't imagine working at Alpert's Law.
There's nothing else I think that I would. Or I would get that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great. And the rule is it's 50 50. So, if you're happy with what you're doing 50 percent of the time, you're, you're okay. You know? Yeah. Anyway, back to that the facial feminization surgeries, I, sorry for my ignorance, are they covered under insurance? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, I would love to talk about that because not many people really, I mean, they kind of know or they've heard, but not many people are really familiar with it. So, facial feminization, when I started it was not. Covered much at all more and more I think insurance companies are recognizing that these are really important surgeries for these patients.
And, necessary. And so, more and more insurance are starting to cover it. There's a couple of companies that cover it across the board. And so, I have a lot of patients who will go get jobs, like Starbucks is one, Amazon is one, although go start working there so that they can get the insurance that covers it.
So, it is definitely becoming more widespread and I think talked about and known a little bit more. Even, even in the last five years, it's, it's exponent or it's, it's increased quite a bit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Just covering the OR alone though, how, how, who's paying for this? If that's a 12-hour procedure, that's amazing. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, yeah, so insurance or patients pay out of pocket. And it's a lot of money. And so. I mean, so many people ask me like, well, how do you know, they're sure? What if they change their mind? And I mean, to save that kind of money and fly across the country and, you know, undergo, it's a lot of surgery. It's a lot of recovery.
Like, these patients have fought it through. They, they feel like they need this to, so that their outside matches their inside. And just to kind of be who they are and to live in the world. So, it's, it's a really important thing. And so, a lot of patients, if they can, will work sometimes for years to save up to have a procedure like this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Just out of curiosity, how much of your practice is just straight everyday cosmetic, facial cosmetic versus the insurance side or the feminization side? Probably at this point, the like transgender patients are probably 40, 45%. And then, The rest is similar procedures, but on cisgender patients. What's a cisgender? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, great question. So, cis means same. So, cisgender people are people who identify their gender identity the same as that they were born. So, I was born biologically female. I identify as a female. I'm cisgender. Transgender patients are patients trans means opposite. So, they are born. A given sex, their gender identity, meaning they identify is different from the sex they were born.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay.
Regina E. Rodman, MD: There are some what we just call women, which by that we mean cisgender women, like I was saying that maybe want their hairline lowered or want some of the similar procedures to just look softer, feminine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then how important is the non-surgical side of your practice, or are you just doing these big cases? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: It is not important. I would say it's probably 10 percent of my practice. I don't, I spent a whole year trying to build a med spa and trying to build up those services. And I know it. I mean, I see the successful med spas. It just didn't fit me. It just didn't fit me in my practice. And so, I really try to incentivize my surgical patients to come back to me for their injections, for their skincare, for, you know, anything, I would much prefer my patients not go to a separate med spa, so I try to give them some discounts and special treatments and stuff But I don't really have a big med spa side of the practice, which, like I said, I, I spent probably a year and a half really focusing on building that.
And then finally I was like, you know what, I'm, I'm good at this thing. I have a great practice here. Let's just focus on the thing that I like and that's, that's working. So, for now, that's where I am.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Honestly, from a marketing consultant perspective, I think you have such a good niche going there and you're going throughout the whole nation or probably the world on this particular. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
So, you're going deep into a procedure that's fairly new. The other doctors aren't doing it. It's really specific. I mean, if you can live off of that and you enjoy it, what the heck, you know, go for it. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, and I think that was some of why the meds wouldn't take off as I would say at least half of my patients come from out of town, out of state, even out of the country sometimes.
So, they're not coming back there. They don't all come back for their right or Botox injections, whatever. The people in town, I mean, we have a good core people that, that have a procedure with me and then follow up that live locally. And even Houston. Patients from San Antonio, Dallas, Austin will drive back to have their PRP or, you know, whatever they need as an adjunct to their surgery.
But it's primarily my surgical patients that are getting Med Spa type services.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, regarding the business side of your practice, what's the biggest challenge? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Ooh, I want to say all of it, but, but really specifically now, I think human resources and staff management. Right now, the second I have an amazing team, I have really great people.
But, I mean, I think about this sometimes, like, I did this very academic fellowship where, you know, I'm rebuilding infant baby skulls, I can harvest your leg bone and rebuild your face, and we can do these crazy things, and then we get out, and, like, here, run a business, you know, and some fellowships I know get, like, have a little bit of training in that, mine did not, so it was a very steep learning curve, all of it, like, I had to be the, you Interior decorator, and the HR, and the IT person, and just, and all those things are things, especially like human resources and management I mean, there's master's degrees in those.
There's a ton of stuff to know. So, it's been a steep learning curve. That's still the thing that I think is ever evolving, and I'm always trying to do a little better. And I will just say, thank you for your podcast, because, I, all the things I learned was from podcasts. I read a few books, but there's a few books that are varied enough.
So, the Ear podcast was one. There're a few others that we, I made all my staff listen to Ear podcast too, which was really helpful, especially for my Paging Care Coordinator. Because we're kind of learning this on the fly, a lot of us. So, the, I feel like the IT stuff, now we've hired somebody, the decorator, we've hired somebody, the human resources, I have help.
But. So, ultimately, managing a team and kind of having the team flow and, and then and, and creating the clinic environment that I want is a constant upkeep and constant evolving.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And the bad news is it's always going to be because humans are involved and, and they're involved and evolving. And so are you and it's just a real dynamic situation where people are coming and going. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Wow. So, there's nothing easy about that.
Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, right now, the second I love my team, I feel like I'm like, man, I've gotten so much better at hiring. They have, some of them have bigger goals. They want to go back to school as they should. So, it's not going to be perfect forever. So, I'm always trying to. You know, get more insights or hear what other people do.
Because that's really what's been helpful is hearing other people's experience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And enjoy it when it's stable like this because it doesn't always stay that way and you just have to keep adapting. It's okay, you know. Tell me about Dubai. I've never been to Dubai. I've been to Saudi Arabia and that was fascinating.
My goal is to get to Dubai. Are you going there very often or where is that fitting into your world? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, so I'm going back in November. You can come if you want. So, basically, I went there for vacation. I just wanted to see it. And I just fell in love with it. It's such an interesting city.
There's just so much development, so much technology. It's just, there's so many interesting things about it. And I knew that a lot of the Middle East had had a need for female plastic surgeons. So, a lot of the women who live in the area. They're Muslim, they wear burqa, the hijab, cover their face, they're allowed, for medical care, they can take it off but for plastic surgery, it's, first of all, it's kind of a gray area, and then when they do take it off a lot of times the husband needs to be present, of course, this is a broad generalization, there's different sex and different types of religion that, that have variations.
I acknowledge, but in general, husband has to be there unless it's a female doctor, in which case, woman to woman, it's, it's you know, free for all. So, there, I knew there was a need for Western trained women to come especially in plastic surgery. So, honestly, I created this opportunity for myself. I was like, I want to work here.
While I was there, I started cold calling a couple of places, I got in touch with a few people, came back, I found some leads and pursued a few things, then COVID happened and that kind of went by the wayside, but then one time I was just, I had a patient who had a very, a really difficult, a really difficult case.
It was like a revision, revision, revision. He was happy with his results. We were just chatting one day about Middle East. And I was saying, I told him how, Oh, I had been trying to pursue this opportunity. Once things open up again, you know, maybe I'll try again. And my patient said, Oh, well, you know, my brother runs the biggest healthcare company in Dubai, don't you?
And I was like, I do not tell me more. So, he, the next time his brother came to town, we all met and we got along. So, they flew me out there to see if it was a fit and kind of the same there. Like the, the things that I do, especially the bony surgeries, there's just no one at all, like in that whole region doing that.
So, and it hired by a hospital. So, right now what I'm doing is quarterly. I'm trying to go spend a week to seven to 10 days. Just do all the surgery I can. And then follow up with the patients before and after with video chat.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, so are you doing, what kind of surgery are you doing? Craniofacial surgery? Feminization surgery? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, facial feminization, as I do it here, is not legal there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I was thinking, I can't imagine them being that open. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Dubai is surprisingly liberal. I'd say it's probably, you know, the most Westernized city in the Middle East. So, the hospital stance on it as of now is that they do cosmetic surgery, and there's no insurance coverage there, so they do cosmetic surgery if a patient wants a hairline advancement, that's probably the most popular thing there is just to have the hairline lowered for all women and their stance is just if a patient wants a cosmetic surgery, we provide cosmetic surgery, We're not going to ask a lot of questions.
People can have whatever they want. So, so I haven't done one of these big, like, full face transformations. But, but rhinoplasty, genioplasty, hairline, the hairline lowering is something I do a lot of here and there. And it's, it's still relatively new, so I'm still trying to grow that part of my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that can be a really lucrative profit center for you too yeah? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Hopefully. I went into it with the idea that as long as I don't lose money, it's worth it. Cause it's just, it's just something different. I think we go through training, like, okay, undergrad, we got to, got to get into med school, we got to get a good residency, got to get a fellowship, we got to get a good job, start my own practice, go to this, and now I'm kind of at this place where, I have a nice practice.
I have a good life and a little part of me is like, this is it for 20 more years. Like you're just going to be in the same office. So, it just adds just a new dimension, a new perspective. It's interesting to just learn how different patients see things, what different patients want. Sort of the aesthetic is different in the Middle East.
So, I'm learning to listen to that. It's just fun. Just something to spice it up. And if I end up. Okay. Making a lot of money. Great. And if not, it's just fun to be, you know, have some variety.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree. I often think about that half the time. I think surgeons buy lasers because they're bored.
They're just absolutely bored of their business and they're like, well, I don't know what, I don't know what to do. So, I think that's a great idea. Quarterly get the heck out and go do something else. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: And that's a great idea. Yeah, and I, I mean, I don't have kids. I never wanted kids, so I'm free to travel.
I'm free to go away for a week. And it's like a good time. You know, I'm, I'm young enough that it's not, the jet lag is real, but. As I'm young enough that I can adapt to it 24 years I probably won't want to be doing this, but for right now it's just really fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, where does India fit into this? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
I know you've been doing some mission work, tell us about that.
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah. That all started and happened before, long before the Dubai the Dubai project. So, it is, I do it through a mission called the India Project, and I've done several other missions before I went to Guatemala, been to South America, a few other things, but the India project, I've been back a few times signed up for it.
I just, again, it's, I was just, I think, at least me, and I think a lot of other surgeons are like this. I mean, we just need to have to do, we just need to be doing something all the time. And I don't want to violate it. So, it's, it's, again, it's just a nice thing. And it's just a nice way to feel like you're giving back.
And. We're giving back, but then, you know, it's kind of cliche, but I also learn so much every time I go abroad and work in, like, a totally different environment with a totally different situation. So, the India project is the one who organizes the whole trip, but the people who have gone on it the last few years, and I haven't been actually since COVID, but the first few years that we did it, they were all, we're all graduates of my same fellowship.
Yep. So, we're, we're kind of buddies. We have the same training, but we have vastly different practices. So, we're a great team because we all know how to do pallets. I mean, we all trained in that forever. We know how to do micro show. We know how to do. A lot of these congenital defects, that's really the bulk of our fellowship.
But one person also did a microvascular cancer fellowship, one is in a smaller town and so he does oculoplastics, trauma, everything at an academic center, I'm in private practice doing a little more cosmetic. So, we all really have, we have the same foundation, but then we have different specialized skills.
And so, it's really great for me just academically because a lot of times I'll have something that I'm, I ask for. It's just, you know, one of the other doctors is like, Oh, how would you repair this? And they have something I've never heard of, but then I also have skills that they don't practice all the time.
I mean, I do tons, like, for example, I do tons of fat grafting for cosmetic reasons, but it also works great in cleft lips that are thin or, you know birth defects where some of the skin is thinned out. And so, I'm like, Oh, let me show you how I do this. So, it's been really great. And I'm hoping that we kind of, now that everything is stabilized, we get to go again this coming year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Let's switch gears and talk about marketing. Here's the thing about what you're trying to do is go wide, you know, with a few procedures. But Google doesn't like that. They don't want you to do that. They want you to stay local. How are you handling that? How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Yeah, so again, this is a lot of trial and error.
Nobody has a, here's a niche practice. Handbook. So, I have learned that Google ads just don't work for me. I've tried several, tried three different companies. One that is really known for being great and has all the latest and greatest. And it just doesn't work for me because they really, exactly, they want to target an area.
And there's people in Houston that want to do neoplasty, but Not that many. And so really what I found is our, our best leads come from social media, come from our website, like the website SEO. People know what procedure they need and they will hop on Google or they'll hop on you know, we get a lot of patients actually from social media.
They'll hop on Instagram and search. Chin reduction and they don't necessarily know it's called a genioplasty But they know they want their chin smaller or small chin surgery something like that So, we have really made an effort to put hashtags on all of our social media posts so that our page comes up when patients Are looking for that and I would say Least half of my patients more probably 60 or 70 percent of my out-of-town patients.
We actually get from social media
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, if just in case you wanted my two cents, you're doing a ton of videos on Instagram. I would be so specific. I would have like a jaw the way the patient would say it. They wouldn't say that medical term. They would say like chin, chin. Shaping or chin augmentation or something like that.
And if you just did those short, even the Instagram reels, what is a chin A or what is, you know? I think I can go far. Because I think social media is your best bet. Like you're doing to go for a big, much broader reach. Yeah. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: So, the last year. We put a ton of money into Google ads and it just, it just didn't return what it was supposed to.
Then I made some efforts to really rehaul my website and I'm happy with that. I think that my new company did a great job fleshing out some of the content, explaining stuff a little bit better because just like you said, like I know what this is. And when I write the content, I write something. There's is a little more probably.
Layperson friendly. So, that has been really helpful. And then I decided just to try to focus a lot more on social media. Just to do little. Educational videos. That is a very hard position to hire for, so I'm going to help with that. So, I finally now have somebody who's good, and we've, we're starting to get a really good flow and so I'm hoping that we continue to do more things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you suggest others that are entering this marketplace, or they're just trying to find their way in this marketplace because it got so crowded would you suggest they also niche it like you did, or do they stay broad and just Be, βoh, I'm everything. I do all of it. I do rhino. I do body. I do faceβ.
Or something like what you're doing because honestly in today's world to stand out You've got to pick a procedure. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Externally, yes. That's what I think and I know there's plenty of people who are like, βoh Iβm good at everything I do everythingβ. I've done everything for years and I maybe I don't know.
I just know for myself like the two procedures I do a lot of is hairline advancement and lip lifts I still learn every single case. And so, I mean, like I did two lip lifts today and still every case, I'm like, Oh, just some little tweak that I changed something that I think like, Oh, that's actually going to heal better.
So, I'm doing that multiple times a week and every time getting a little better and a little better and evolving my technique, I, I can do other, I mean, I can do a lot of things, but am I putting that much focus and that much evolution, that much thought into every single procedure? Like, there's just no way.
So, I mean, I've done like over a hundred facial feminization cases, and I do think like everyone gets a little bit better. So, I think. One, for marketing, it's helpful to just kind of focus on a niche, but also, I just think the more you do something, the better you get at it, which then kind of markets itself because like if I, the hairline advancements that barely have a scar, I mean like hairdresser has to look carefully, that's great marketing because she might tell somebody, you know, that hairdresser might then.
Tell another client. Oh, actually, maybe you've never heard of this procedure, but there's someone in town who does it. And I think those patients are happy and then they tell people who tell those people, I've certainly had a few patients that are on like there is my chin is too big forum on reddit like who knew One of my patients had surgery with me.
She's on this chin forum posted her pictures I probably got seven new patients from that. So, you know, so I feel I think having some kind of focus It's just technically better. It's Easier to market and so it's just less stressful. So, I just kind of have a routine where even in the operating room, like, everyone knows this is the instruments.
I want this is we do it. Step 1, 2, 3 so it. It helps take some of that extra mental load off of us too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It also opens the door to premium pricing because nobody wants to be the guinea pig. And if you have such a specialized, especially this facial feminization that's, well, that's a tough decision to make, you know, you're, they're going to transform their face, their life, all of that. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
They don't want to be number one. They want to be number 101.
Regina E. Rodman, MD: No, I think about that. Sometimes I have these moments where I just kind of step back from my life and I'm like, It's crazy, most of these patients, I meet them online we do an online consult, they think about it, make their decision, and of course they're looking at my photos and probably follow me on social media, so they're kind of getting to know me in the background as well, but we meet one time online and then they will travel, fly here to me, we meet the, I usually, for out of town patients, I'll do my post op the day before so they come in the clinic, and we can go through the plan, et cetera, you know, all the, the pre op stuff.
I just think, wow, so this person spent an hour with me online and then flew across the country on faith, and I'm going to cut their entire face open. And they're just going to hope it all works out. And, and it does, it does. But sometimes I just step back from that and I'm like, man, that's, that's kind of crazy that people just trust me like that.
And, and also really awesome that like people trust me like that. It's a huge honor and responsibility to be in charge of all of this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But that's what branding and marketing does it builds up that trust before they even meet you And they're I mean think about it. They're able to trust you and they haven't even met you That's the power of Instagram and also branding on the website. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
It all goes together we're going to wrap it up now, but tell us something. We don't know about you.
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Some people know but my second job passion second passion I would say is super into fitness. I used to compete in CrossFit. Now I just do a little a little too busy, but still do a lot of fitness stuff out of my garage.
And now I, I do some functional bodybuilding. I do a little bit of pole dancing just for flexibility and mobility. Super fun. It's like a great core workout. Do some weightlifting, still do running. So, I always, I always have something going on after work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, your Instagram, you look like you're quite the power lifter, like you are buffed, yeah. How does this relate to or impact your transgender niche practice?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: Thanks.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, good for you, yeah. Alright if anybody wanted to get a hold of you how would they do so?
Regina E. Rodman, MD: You can always, on the Instagram, send a direct message. We check those multiple times a day. The second-best way, or the other good way, is through my website, which is... FaceForwardHouston.com or DrReginaRodman.com.
There's contact us button that also gets monitored multiple times a day, even on the weekends.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you so much Dr. Rodman. It's so nice to get to know you better and I'm sure I'll see you at a conference again soon.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Rodmanβs transgender niche practice.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Rodman you can reach out to her website at, FaceForwardHouston.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Rodman for sharing her journey on developing her transgender niche practice.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βTransgender Niche β with Regina E. Rodman, MDβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and adding an associate.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Adding an Associate β with Ivan Wayne, MD".
When youβve been practicing for a while, itβs almost inevitable to entertain the idea of scaling your practice without working harder.
You figure out how to bring in more revenues without doing more work, while decreasing the pressure of you being the sole revenue generator.
This allows you to go on vacation, share expenses and plan your exit strategy.
The obvious solution is to bring on an associate to fill in the gaps and help you scale. However, that can be fraught with drama if you donβt choose wisely.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interviewed Dr. Ivan Wayne, a facial aesthetic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Oklahoma City, OK.
Dr. Wayne has been in practice over 25 years and was ready for change and setting himself up for his future. So, he added an associate and then bought and built out a space with 2 ORs so he no longer had to use outside facilities.
We talked about adding an associate that included:
- How he found someone who shared his values
- What to look for when adding an associate so you have a good fit
- How he was able to now focus on the cases he most enjoys
Visit Dr. Wayne's website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you! Click below:
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Transcript:
Adding an Associate β with Ivan Wayne, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: βHello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and adding an associate. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. And I'm really excited about today's guest, who knows all about what to consider when adding an associate.
It's Dr. Ivan Wayne. He's a facial, aesthetic, and reconstructive surgeon. in private practice located in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and he's been there over 25 years. He's got a focus on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, revision rhinoplasty, as well as preservation rhinoplasty, which I'm going to ask more about.
So, Dr. Wayne attended the University of Iowa Medical School and completed his internship, as well as residency at the University of Rochester in New York, and he did his fellowship at the University of Florida. So, like everyone else, he's been around. So, Dr. Wayne serves on several committees of the AAFPRS, where he's also a frequent speaker at medical conferences, which was where I met him and trains other surgeons on his innovative techniques.
Welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Wayne. It's a pleasure to have you.
Ivan Wayne, MD: Thank you. It's good to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Terrific. So, let's just start with why facial plastic surgery, why not some other specialty? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: So, when I was a teenager at some point, I don't remember how old I was. We had these things called books that you read because we didn't have iPads or the internet or anything.
And I read a lot of books and my father who was a, a former professor of French literature and very book obsessed, love to go to used bookstores and. One day he came back with a book all about plastic surgery. And I thought that's kind of cool. It was obviously directed at the consumer, but had information that about different procedures.
I probably was 14 at the time. And I thought this was fascinating. I thought I want to do that. I've always been interested in doing things with my hands. I love to build, to create, to think, envision, and then, and then put it into. Into action by making something. And to me being a surgeon or especially a plastic surgeon, would kind of fit right down that road.
My parents were super excited, yay. Want to be a doctor. And so, they were very encouraging about that. And I happened to train at the Uni, or my medical school was at the University of Iowa, Iowa. And as a medical student, the exposure I got to plastic surgery was the plastic surgery department. And then the Department of Otolaryngology at the University of Iowa was very strong at that time, especially in craniofacial work, left lip and palate, rhinoplasty, pediatric deformities and reconstructions.
And I remember between the two rotations as a medical student, the plastic surgeons seemed like all they were doing was dealing with horrible bed wounds and pressure ulcers and tissue, big tissue flaps. While the otolaryngologist, we're doing these really cool facial reconstruction cases, cases. So, I'm like, I want to do facial plastic.
So, this is cool. That influenced my direction to become an otolaryngology resident, and then to do a fellowship in facial plastic surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, that's fantastic. Were you the first surgeon in your family? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Yes, I, I am and was, yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, well, you have a young son. Maybe he'll follow in your footsteps. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Maybe. We'll see. My daughter, more likely, she's the artist in the family.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So interesting. So, everyone's got a journey from fellowship to solo practice. What was yours like? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: So, I did my train, as you mentioned, University of Rochester, Vito Cotella, who you probably know. Of course, of course. He was very influential in my upbringing from early residency to selecting a fellowship.
He's, was kind of a model for what I envisioned doing sometime in the future, you know, have this palace and a surgery center and all these incredible clients and everybody was in awe of what he did and, and still is. I ended up going to the University of Miami for my training, and I trained under very famous Dr.
Robert Simons, you've probably met him once or twice, very strong-minded person about our academy and service, and then Richard Davis is at the university, so I had Kind of a dual fellowship, private practice, saw the boutique side, and then I saw the university side. And I always kind of assumed I was going to at least start out at a university because it made sense.
And I happened to be lucky enough to train in 2000 in
2001, which September 11 occurred in. And that dramatically altered my trajectory because All the job opportunities that I was looking at suddenly kind of dried up and there was a very like narrow pool to pick from afterwards because I think everybody was terrified and people that had businesses at the time slowed down significantly.
So, I had a job opportunity at the University of Oklahoma. I didn't really know anything about Oklahoma or the university, but I did know the chairman Jesus Medina, who, ended up meeting at some meeting during the interview process and everybody thinks he's the greatest and he is the greatest and he was very influential in recruiting me.
I didn't honestly think I would stay long term. I needed a job and I knew I wanted to do something at least to keep my hands working. Having lived for a year in Miami beach and loving the water, it was very hard to leave. But I ended up at the University of Oklahoma and moved in 2002. And that's where I've been ever since.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Just out of curiosity, did you find a wife in Oklahoma or did you have to recruit a wife to Oklahoma? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: No, I met my significant other here in Oklahoma. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. I'm thinking that'd be a hard sell, you know, like, frankly, I had never been to Oklahoma until I met you. And I loved it. It's just not on my radar. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
You know, it was interesting.
Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, it truly was. I mean, it's just not, I mean, I knew about the Merr building bombing that occurred. Yes, me too. And I kind of had recollections of reading about the Dust Bowl. And that's about all I knew about Oklahoma, frankly. Do you like it? I do. It is. I have friends on both coasts and I'm on little group texts and I get a lot of complaining coming from the east coast and the difficulty of running a practice and the people and I'm always like, I hate to brag, but I love our patients.
They're so nice. People are so nice. I saw this little meme of life in Oklahoma. It's to pick-up trucks pulling up to a four way stop sign and instead of One of them trying to race across. They're basically offering, Hey, go ahead and go. No, no, you go. And literally they're having a fight about letting the other one goes first.
I mean, that's the attitude around here. It's, it's super positive. It's a great place to run a practice. I haven't had all the problems with recruiting great employees. Staff has been great and people are nice to deal with and great place to raise kids. So.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I will I'll, I will agree with you when I was there, they were the politest people I've seen in a long time because I'm in California, whatever but it was just, you're right, it was, it's a very friendly kind of place, your staff's so friendly, usually I have to train that into people, in your case, they're just really nice people, yeah, I, yeah, I get it. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: It's in the water or something, it's just the attitude around here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, so are you still doing any reconstructive and if you are like what's your percentage of recon versus aesthetic because that's always a balance. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Two years ago, before I recruited my junior associate, I was doing probably, by days of the week, about 35 percent reconstruction and the rest was aesthetic.
Now, since Dr. Rhodes has joined me, I, I'm probably down to less than 5%. It's kind of by request, because I've been in Oklahoma City practicing, I'm, I'm starting my 22nd year I, I'm well known, and I get texts from, you know, a doctor will text me, hey, I've got this relative, this friend, what can you, of course I'll see them, I mean, I'm happy to.
I tend to get, you know, the super challenging cases still come my way, and so I do. Enough to, to kind of say that I still do it and then I still like it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And talking about your associate, how did you go about that process? He's a super great guy, younger, any, any pearls there because everyone struggles trying to get the right match to come into your practice. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: It's not easy. It absolutely is. I, I think the, the road to partnership is littered with failed relationships and, and not, not with me, but with colleagues around the country. I mean, I, I saw it everywhere that I went. So, Dr. Rhodes was a medical student at the University of Oklahoma. So, I knew him from, you know, I was at the university until 2016.
So, I was aware of him then. He was a resident at OU. Worked with me so I had direct experience. I observed him. I, I was interested because he wanted to do a fellowship and he's got family in Oklahoma City. He's not moving. So, he's coming back one way or another. And I don't know if I was 100 percent on board about bringing a partner on.
But the timing, you know, sometimes the timing forces you to make the decision. And I'm glad that I did because I knew his personality. He's, he's extremely easy to get along with. He's friendly. He's nice to people. He doesn't seem to have an issue with me calling the shots, which is, you know, if, if you want to be the big fish.
You can't join another big fish. So, he seems to be fine with his role and he's thriving in it. I hope he's happy, but I knew him personally. And then Ed Williams was his fellowship director. And of course. He confirmed everything I knew about Dr. Rhodes, that he was A, going to be very successful, he's very nice, and, and everybody loved him, so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, that's another double-edged sword, because, you're absolutely right, the two alphas in the jungle aren't working well, however, you definitely need them eventually to step up to be the alpha, because you want to step down, or step out. So, you know, it's almost like, gosh, can, it, there's just a balance there, and just trying to figure out, Are they willing to put their ego aside for now to learn and grow and be patient? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
And then, like, is there a plan? Like, is that the plan for you two? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, so, I mean, he's very fortunate that, you know, he started out and all he's done since day one is facial plastic surgery of one form or another. I joined a university and you join a university, that's not always a protected role. I, I did by requirements and general otolaryngology until my, my practice filled up because they had the need for it.
So, he, he is very busy and growing. It, the only frustration I sense from him is I think he wants to do more cosmetic, but you know, it's very hard. You, you're You know, people, patients are needing to entrust you to take their face apart and put it back together again, and he's really young looking, so it'll come with time.
I reassure him, he, he seems okay with that, and, and he's developing his practice. In fact, I'd say he's probably done more cosmetic in the last two years than I did my first two years.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very good, and remind him of that, because there's a lot of impatience in today's world, and it takes time. to do all of this.
So, so you also have a brand-new building and it was gorgeous and beautiful and any tips on how you pull that off or how you found it? How do you negotiate it? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, so I had been on the lookout for a building probably for six to seven years prior to when I found this, maybe five years. You know, I, I basically did a lot of driving around and keeping my eyes open.
It's weird how you can drive by things a hundred times in your daily. Commutes and things and not notice it. But when you have your eyes on buildings that come up for sale, what do I need? I mean, I looked at former bank buildings. I looked at there's a there's a big developer on the north side of Oklahoma City who's built out malls and strip malls, and he had a building for sale and How much money he wanted for it.
I'm like, man, I could probably buy the land and build. And so, I started looking at that. I, I talked to a hospital developer about partnering up and, and looked at numbers. And I, I kind of knew roughly the areas that would be good because I'm in Oklahoma. We're about four, just under 4 million, Oklahoma, the greater Oklahoma city areas are a million and a half'ish.
So, I get a draw from a really big area, so I want it to be easy to get to for my local clientele, and then for all the satellite stuff within 50 miles and then a hundred miles of me. So, being on one of the beltway or close to the beltway was important.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The traffic that goes by your office is amazing. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: We have a ton of, yeah, it's a very busy, it may actually be, I don't know the numbers, I mean, I've seen it on, it probably is the busiest segment in our area. So, I mean, my business is not a drive by business, but being able to find us easily and that sort of brand recognition, I think, Does amount to something.
So, the, the group that the hospital development group I had been working with, I knew they had attempted to buy the building that I'm in now. It was an existing building. I had never paid any attention to it. I didn't know what the heck it was. The fact that somebody who's much smarter in real estate wanted to buy it.
They, they low balled the owners. It was a trust told me that if he, if he put an offer in. It's worth looking at. So, I started to get serious and looked at it and 18, 200 square feet. I mean, that seemed pretty big. It, it, it was basically a big open shell with a lab in the back. And then I started the process of looking at it.
I can't remember did I did I hire my architect before I probably in the process because we had a really long like a 90-day due diligence phase to all of our inspections and all that and I'd already, I think I had got my architect selected. Because I've been around for so long, I know people and I.
No, a local contracting company, kind of friends of mine run it. And I said, you know, who would you recommend for an architect? And they gave me two names and they told me the one they really love. And I met this guy and he's, he's kind of an old cowboy driving an old pickup truck. And he was very down to earth and I loved his approach.
And, and I could just tell that within five minutes. I was going to like working with him and his team and it turned out to be great and we had gotten a couple of bids or I got a couple of bids from different firms and you know there are these really bougie kind of architectural firms and it was shocking just how much of a difference there was in the price.
And then I looked at some of the things they had done and the one that I selected had done. Things basically kind of right along with what I'm doing. So, so yeah, that's how, that's how I found the building. You know, it's tough to buy a building because you need a lot of money. I mean, they want a lot of down payment.
Luckily, I've been kind of buying some real estate projects on the side as I've gone along some small rental units and I was able to leverage the collateral there to start the building project to buy the building, which I did.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Any kind of building mistakes you made that you wish you could redo or overdo or I mean, yeah, redo. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: We know we really didn't have any big ones. I think, you know, there's there're so many little minutiae issues with access to parking lots and setbacks and handicapped spaces and buildings a little weird because. 20 spaces are in front and then 60 spaces are in the back. So, we really had to kind of juggle things, but we, we worked at all.
I mean, there's a few things I spent too much money on because it wasn't really hyper focused like, you know, commercial doors with little, I mean, you can spend 5, 000 per door on these little release mechanisms. And I got extra ones I really didn't need, but that's okay. I mean, it's, it's, you know, we, we own it now and the building is nice.
So, No, I was very fortunate. No, the only thing bad that happened was timing because COVID 19, right? Literally, I had almost signed off on the bid to start the project. And then COVID happened, and we went dead in the water for like four weeks. I think I actually started, I was one of the first doctors in Oklahoma City to start working again because I was still doing reconstruction, they let us do cases.
But I didn't know if we were going to have a practice again like a lot of people, you know, I didn't know are we all going to go bankrupt because we have no revenue, but that of course didn't happen. The opposite happened. But because I delayed the pricing went up maybe 40 percent or more, the same exact bid between pre COVID and post COVID.
Fortunately, my company that I selected had really good connections and they got it done really right on time. It just costs a lot more.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's absolutely gorgeous. Your O. R. was beautiful. You have two suites. It's really spacious. I'm, I'm used to city. Practices and I just I hope you appreciate the space you have because it's really unusual, you know. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Yes, I'm very fortunate that we had so much space to work with and I, you know, I had different options I could have taken over the whole building.
And originally, we were set to do 6000 feet with ours. I checked in with some people who have huge facilities and they said you can never build too big. I mean, that's what everybody told me, whether it's Ed Williams or Vito Quintella or Mike Nayak, who are all friends and who have large, you know, you will grow into it.
So, I thought I'm going to build a little bigger. I'm going to make room for myself and hopefully Well, it's two of us now, two physicians, and I have room for two more for us all to be not stumbling over each other. I think that will be the optimal practice size once we're totally matured. So, we're fortunate, but it works great.
Flow's good. We can get a lot of patients through in a day. You know, I only see patients one day a week. I have six rooms and it just really helps to kind of stack the rooms and all I'm doing is walking from room to room and that's what I want to be doing. So, it's, it, the efficiency is definitely worth it if you can do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and regarding marketing, is the is Oklahoma City zoning, are they okay with outside signage? Because you just have such incredible traffic there. Can you put big signs up that say who you are? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: We got one of them up yesterday and then our, our other one is built and a crane's going to attach to the building.
So, yes and yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I think that's. Just the best marketing on the planet. You buy it once and it lasts for a lifetime. So, congratulations. Now that you have all this space though, I think you're you know, surgical is always the main focus, but what are your feelings about the non-surgical side? Are you trying to grow that? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
You don't care. If you do care, how much do you care? Because now you've got the space to put in equipment and, and, you know, non-surgeons. Are you heading in that direction or what's your plan? I'm very well. So, I've had P. A. S. In the past work for me as physician extenders and doing injectables, and they haven't worked out financially for us.
Ivan Wayne, MD: Never busy enough to justify the cost of the practice. You know, there's so many medical spas in Oklahoma City, and it seems like one opens up a month and You know, every two months, one closes. It's just an absolutely saturated business. I talked to people who have successful med spas and they are not like super excited about recommending people do it.
And so, I, I haven't really, I mean, I have branding already in place for it, but it's the people that you need and. I haven't got those people yet. There's a nurse injector who's been in Oklahoma City as long as I have had a great practice and when her plastic surgeon retires, we'll probably bring her in.
I think if I get enough of those people who are just focused on it, because I don't have the time to sell people The services we offer, somebody's got to do it. And focused nurse injector or PA is who you need to do that. And I just haven't found the right people, but I just hired an RN actually last night, who's a former patient of mine, young been out of school for like nine months, she's super enthusiastic aesthetics and I'm like, I'm going to train her from ground zero.
And we're going to kind of go at this from a different direction. So, I'm slowly building that, I have friends, I have a very good friend who's, who's got the oldest med spa in Oklahoma City. And when I talk to him, it's interesting. It, you know, he's, he's kind of, there's some nuances to making money with it.
It's less just like opening a restaurant. It's a very difficult business to be successful with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's a great idea to either start them fresh, although be careful, usually at the year two or three, just like an associate, they start thinking they're bigger than their bitches and they want to go out on their own.
Or the person who already has a really healthy non-surgical practice and she needs a new home and she knows she doesn't want to run it herself. She knows how hard that is and have her come on and bring everyone with her. Because one thing about facial plastic surgery. It's very difficult to build a relationship quickly because when a woman needs a facelift in her 50s and 60s, she'll, she'll look at what she's done in the past.
And often she's been using fillers and injectables and lasers to try to hold off on surgery. So, it's helpful to build that relationship ahead of time, but I wouldn't bring people on unless they're really good at cross promoting you. In their work, you know, like all arrows should be pointing to surgery, you know, you know, any staff tips on you have a great staff, any challenges there or what's been working for you?
How did, how do you keep them motivated? And how do you find them? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: People come into your lives and people leave your lives and leave your life and you just hang on to the good ones. I, my, my manager, Mariah, who you've met is the most focused, devoted people. She had worked for me in the past. We had a very toxic manager for a while and it took me a long time to figure out where the drama was coming from.
And once I got her out of the office. People started coming back and Mariah is one of the people who came back. So, I, I give people a lot of room to do their job and I acknowledge good work when I see it. I don't, as you know, I don't like micromanaging people. And I very, you know, I, I like to think that I have this sense about people within five minutes, if they're going to work and I can very quickly tell when people are not going to work and, and I've, you know, we've tried.
You know, in what I call it the modification. You know, you have a meeting and you need to do these things and we check with, you know, when people stop working out, they stop working out and that's okay. I mean, there are there are better spots for people elsewhere. People change we all change and sometimes what worked great in the past won't work now and there might be something they'd rather do than be with me so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's been the biggest challenge of growing a cosmetic practice in your, in your mind? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: You know, within our practice, probably the social media and the marketing side. I mean, that's probably been the most frustrating thing to me. My practice is largely word of mouth because of reputation and, and I know you're a big fan of it.
And, and You know, I see what young surgeons do who have a lot of time and energy, and some of them are not that young. You know, you look at Mike Nyack's social media presence, I can't duplicate that. I'm just, I'm not big about promoting me on social media, but I've kind of slowly kind of inching into it.
I, I, we have a great person that we've hired who's actually A cinematographer who makes movies. I mean, that's his background and I think he's got a very different visual sense. And I think finally we're getting somewhere with that high creating high quality content. So, that's been the big challenge we've had outside firms.
Those have been absolute disasters. And I know other people have had similar experiences. You, you send them money and, and they just, I feel like reprocess the post they've done for 10 other practices. There's no, there's no unique identifiers. Nothing draws you in. You know, I, I look at my Instagram and Facebook feed and it's like, It seems like every post from all these different med spas and practices are slight variants on the same thing.
There's nothing interesting. I scroll right by them. And I think to break out of that is not easy and I don't necessarily have the answers. But yeah, that's been the most challenging.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'll tell you the social media that you've done recently is Amazing. You had right off the top, you had two patient video testimonials from deep plane facelift patients who were out six months, you know, on the, just, if I were to critique, I would say do it sooner than six months because they're not as excited.
They like, it's like, that's how they look now. So, the, a lot of enthusiasm isn't there, but it came, it was so heartfelt and you were very natural. And that's what we women want to see, especially when we're going to rearrange our face. How are we going to feel about this at the, you know, how's the end result going to be?
How was the journey? And those were very authentic and very nice. And the women, your Oklahoma women are just darn nice. They're just really nice people. And they're both just, yeah, I'm so thankful for you. And they, and they just were authentic. And I would just keep doing more of that. And same thing with the rhino.
I love when you show, it's so difficult to show how good you are unless you can really prove it tangibly, so when you do a really difficult rhino, rhino case, and then you show what, and you didn't just show what their nose looked like before, you explained the challenges of it, and you could see Oh, my God, there's no bridge.
The nostrils are off that, blah, blah, blah. And then you see them live and then they're saying, Oh my gosh, this was the greatest thing. I just wish you could get them to cry. We love rhino patients crying. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: We had crying yeah, when you cry last week, I mean, just sobbing. And I'm like, are those good tears?
Yeah, we, we try to get you know, I do like the one-week reveals are great. And Luke has been, our media guy has been great. I mean, he loves to film. So, it's, it's natural for it. And I absolutely agree. That's where I'm focusing on. That's, that's what patients want to see. I don't, I'm not really good at that.
And I'm terrible at dancing. I don't think that's going to bring anybody in people when, when it really comes to where the rubber meets the road, and you're about to think about having your nose taken apart or your face taken apart, who do you trust to do it, you know, what do you want that doctor to be, I hope they want them.
They're going to pick somebody like me who's a little bit OCD, a little bit obsessed when I'm doing my stuff, very focused. That's who I am. And I hope it comes across in our videos and our media content.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, it absolutely is. Please keep doing that. Back to the business side, you and I recently were at the Mac conference in San Diego.
And you moderated the best panel I think I've ever seen in my 23 years. And it was called the aesthetic practice think tank. And you had some big, heavy hitters on there and the topics were amazing. Do you want me to refresh your memory or do you want to just regroup or like, or review what, what happened there?
Cause I, I couldn't take notes fast enough. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: So, I created a private Facebook group for myself and colleagues, I don't know how long ago, maybe 10 years ago. Oh, no kidding. Because what, you know, remembering back you leave fellowship and here you are facing this incredibly daunting task of building a practice and challenging patients.
And I remember I'd put calls into my fellowship director or, or to people I trained with and, and they might get back to you that night or the next day. And it's just like trying to get feedback was really difficult. And I thought, wouldn't it be nice if we could just post something and get, you know, just make it easy.
I have this question. What do you do? So, it's interesting, you know, there's like a top 30, you know, members of this group who are like on every post and You can put down a question about a patient. Hey, I had this complication. How would you manage it? Like I had a patient I did a facelift on two weeks ago and he had the weirdest thing happen.
His, his jaw like dislocated the day after surgery and he's calling me and I've never seen this. So, I post the question and a video and I got 20 responses, including several people, very seniors. Like, yeah, I've seen it. It goes away in a day or two. And it did. And I was like, I've been doing this 22 years.
I've never seen it before. So, and then we also have business challenges, you know, hiring people. What do you do about, you know, non-disclosure just, so what I did, Randy Waldman had been aware of this page and likes it and said, Ivan, you really need to do a panel at the aesthetic meeting that I do.
So, I. Kind of thought, all right, I'm going to pick the top five or six topics and I put a little poll and ask questions and it covered things like employee embezzlement. How do you fire patients, private equity, entrepreneurship, adding nonprofit centers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Private equity!
Ivan Wayne, MD: And, and of course, as I suspected, one hour was not enough because I had some, you know, I'm not going to name names, but I had some big names in our field and there's a lot of big egos, which is not a bad thing, but it's hard to stop talking when, you know, we've got like, you've got like 60 seconds to respond and like 15 minutes later, but it's all good stuff.
So, I just kind of let it roll. And if we do it again, we'll probably do it for longer, but it was just. Top topics that have come up in our in our private group and sort of sharing them for whoever was interested and people seem to like it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say just if you just picked one of those topics because everyone loved to talk about, you have talkers there, so it's even just one topic going deeper than trying to go shallow with five but that was amazing.
It needed a lot more time. Absolutely. And so, you have this Facebook group. It must be a private group, right? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: It's a hidden private group. We just, we want it to, it's just like the same people that I hang out with at meetings, but we're pretty big because people find out about it. We, you know, if you're one of us, we let you in.
It's, it's just facial plastics because I've got some very opinionated members who like to. Talk about facial plastics issues and sometimes we'll mention other specialties. So, I don't, you know, I, I don't want to exclude, but I also, it's our membership and I asked, you know, is it just us? And everybody said, yes, just us.
So, it's just like the people that I would run into one of our meetings, you know, at dinner, we talk about stuff. So, it's, it's, but it's right there and any 24 hours a day, you can ask a question and you'd be surprised. Somebody will answer it within five seconds, literally.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, I'd love to be a fly on that private wall. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Yeah, we're very, yeah, it's, it's, it's like Fight Club and we don't talk about Fight Club, so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I have to ask about preservation rhinoplasty because I've been around for a long time and I swear I only heard about it, what, two years ago, I think when Sam most mentioned it on my podcast. What is with the preservation versus the revision rhinoplasty? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: In a nutshell, there should, you know, it's been around almost as long as open structure rhinoplasty or whatever it is you want to call what I did for 19 years. Preservation, the way I describe it to patients, instead of cutting your bump off, I'm going to bend it straight or bend it and bend it from an βoutieβ to an βinnieβ.
And that's what you're doing. You're doing maneuvers below the actual surface of the bridge of the nose to release support of cartilage and bone. And you're just kind of pushing it into the nose. It was difficult to learn. I had help from some of my European colleagues and getting started with it.
And Dean Toriumi was helpful. And now I've pretty much converted everybody because I think the results are just that much better to my eye and my aesthetic. It's a more natural result. I've had a hard time convincing people because, you know, we, we spent all this time perfecting a technique and, you know, if you've been doing it 15 years and your results are good and your patients are happy, why change?
And there is no reason to change. I'm just a perfectionist kind of person. And, and with my craft, I want it to be as good as I possibly can. And I've been super happy with. how they've turned out. The patients seem to like it. I mean, they don't know the difference I kind of described to them. And I've only had a couple of patients actually say, do you do preservation?
And yes, I do. And it's not being asked for, but when I became aware of it, I thought I need to learn about this because what if the sweeps the country and everybody you know, the rhinoplasty population is young and very, and very social media savvy. And there are groups on Facebook and people are posting stuff and who, what doctor do you use and what technique and it's, it's an uncontrollable murmur of activity.
And I wanted to at least be knowledgeable about it in case that's the only thing that people want to have done. And that may happen at some point. I don't know. It hasn't yet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, from a marketing perspective, that could be an excellent differentiator for you. The issue is you have to educate patients on the word preservation because most have never heard of it and they wouldn't know the difference.
However, if that could make you different than all the other rhino guys who don't do it and you, you parlay yourself into the expert because you know this innovative technique that others don't or just they don't just don't talk about it. I think that's, that could be a good marketing strategy for you. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: It's, it's on the list of YouTube videos that we're going to shoot.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, okay, very good. So, we're going to wrap it up, but what advice would you give anyone coming up, you know, who's been in business, I don't know, 10 years or less. What advice would you give them? Or what have you learned that was super helpful for you and maybe today in today's world? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: You mean for a young surgeon coming out?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't want to say just a young surgeon, like, just because you've had a very successful track record, and you're doing a great job, and you've grown, and you've had an associate that makes sense, and you've had no major trauma, trauma what, like, what advice would you give others to just ride a smoother path through this world of plastic surgery? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: You know, focus on quality with whatever you do and produce because that's the ultimate differentiator. If I had one, when I evaluate, whether it's a piece of property, a device, a service, I look at, at my, my, you know, I once had, I have a friend who's, who's built businesses and run businesses. And he told me, you know, the value of a business is whatever it would cost you to build the same thing across the street.
So, I always remember that, you know, when, when you evaluate, when you create a valuation on something, don't be too greedy because It's only worth what somebody will pay and they'll pay a little, a little positive on top of what they could do it for themselves. So, quality don't be greedy and then barriers to entry are important for me.
You know, I do facelifts, I do rhinoplasty. There's no med spot in Oklahoma City or anywhere in the world that's doing that. That's my barrier to entry. It's something that's very difficult to learn that limits your competition. Every time a device gets kind of thrown or pushed towards me, I kind of let, oh yeah, anybody could do this.
You can teach your staff to do it in 30 minutes. Right away, I'm not interested because that device will appear in 10 med spas around town, because if it's that easy, why am I going to bother offering it? It just doesn't make sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay. And then the last question, tell us something we don't know about you. How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: Let's see. I have an alter ego identity called Surgeon Sculptor. It's on Instagram where I, where I do my metal sculpture and metal crafting. That's entirely self-taught. I did, well, not entirely. I took a class in Las Vegas during one of the meetings on some of the techniques, but I have a shop and I go there and it's, it's a great way to unwind.
And I consider it cross training because I do these very detailed welding techniques that are very hard to learn and it's a whole art and I'm not particularly good at it but I get better and it's very refreshing to do something that is highly focused and difficult. And if you do it just right it's perfectly beautiful if it doesn't you throw it away and start over and I can't do that in surgery so it's, it's my therapy and as I have more time sometime in the future, I actually want to pursue that more and have that almost as a side business in a way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I had no idea. I'm going to go check that out on Instagram. And you can always fall back on that when you're tired of doing plastic surgery. It's great to have a hobby, by the way. I've noticed a lot of surgeons don't. I know I don't either. And you just focus on one thing. And I, you know, when you want to slow down, it's like, well, what would I do if I didn't work?
You know, good for you. You have something you'd want to do. How would others hear about you or if they wanted to contact you, what would be the best way? How does or did this relate to, or impact your decision on adding an associate?
Ivan Wayne, MD: They can email me off of the website WFacialAesthetics.com. That's probably the easiest thing to remember. Or by my email, it's ivanwayne@icloud.com or @hotmail.Com. That tells you how long I've been on the internet. Hotmail, but yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I gave up my Hotmail account with my AOL account. Yeah, it wasn't helping my branding. So, thank you, thank you Dr. Wayne for coming today to podcast. I really appreciate it. It's a pleasure. I hope to see you again, again at the next meeting.
Actually, we have one coming up. Are you going to be at the AAFPRS in Vegas?
Ivan Wayne, MD: I will so I'll see you there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, I'll see you there.
Ivan Wayne, MD: Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on adding an associate.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Wayne you can reach out to his website at, WFacialAesthetics.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Wayne for sharing his experience on adding an associate.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βAdding an Associate β with Ivan Wayne, MDβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Kevin Sadati, MD was born in Iran but 'made' in America.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Born in Iran but Made in America β with Kevin Sadati, DO".
Life is filled with daunting challenges when trying to get 'made' in America. They can be physical, psychological, financial, emotional, and personal.
They can be hoist upon you unexpectedly or self-induced, especially when you are pursuing ambitious goals, like getting 'made' in America.....or both.
The saying, βWhat doesnβt kill you makes you strongerβ, literally rings true for this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest.
Kevin Sadati, DO runs a very successful facial plastic surgeon practice in beautiful (and competitive) Newport Beach, CA but it was a long and dangerous journey of eventually getting 'made' in America to get there.
Dr. Sadati grew up in Iran and was 19 when the revolution broke out, so he was drafted to go to war as a medic (with zero medical knowledge and 3 months of training) and put on the front line for 2 years, doing what he could to help wounded soldiers.
He survived that experience but lost 70% of his hearing, but that did not stop him from his goal of becoming a US-trained doctor, even though he did not speak English, did not have money and did not know anyone in the States.
This is a must listen-to interview about courage, resilience, character, and problem-solving skills needed to get where youβre going to get 'made' in America.
And, this was one of the most inspiring interviews I have done to date.
Visit Dr. Sadati's website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you! Click below:
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Transcript:
Born in Iran but Made in America β with Kevin Sadati, DO Catherine Maley, MBA: βHello everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Sadati was born in Iran but made in America. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's special guest is Dr. Kevin Sadati, who was born in Iran but made in America. He's a facial plastic surgeon practicing in lovely Newport Beach, California, which is a big part of the theme of being βborn in Iran but made in Americaβ. Now, Dr. Sadati specializes in facelifts and rhinoplasty and perform surgery in his state-of-the-art in-house surgery center, and non-surgical procedures are performed in his 'aesthetic lounge', which is integral to the topic of him being βborn in Iran but made in Americaβ.
I love that name. After graduating from UC Berkeley with degrees in Eastern art and history, he did wound healing research at UC San Francisco, and he got his medical degree from the Midwestern University in Illinois. Then, Dr. Sadati continued his head and neck training and general surgery at the Medical College of Philadelphia, which is also part of the βborn in Iran but made in Americaβ story.
And his fellowship plastic and reconstructive surgery in Seattle. Now, he's a member of many associations and he's a speaker at the medical conferences where I see him often. And since Dr. Sadati never lost his love of the arts, he continues to study oil painting and sculpting as a way to hone his skills.
And I love his tagline. It's, "the hands of a surgeon with the eyes of an artist". Dr. Sadati, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Kevin Sadati, DO: Thank you so much for having me here, Catherine, and I appreciate having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, how did you get from San Francisco to Philadelphia to Seattle and then to Newport Beach? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being 'made in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO:
Before I got to San Francisco, I want to say I was born in Iran, but made in America. So, when I was 23, I moved to San Francisco Bay area. But before that, after graduating from high school there was a war going on and all the medical schools and. Universities were closed and they basically drafted every young man to go to the war.
And I would not anywhere in my mind wanted to be a surgeon or medical field. I was a total engineer building stuff and I was home to go to Become a major engineer. So, what happened, they drafted me, and I ended up to, to be a medic. I don't know why, they said, you're going to be a medic. And they thought me like, a little medical thing for, You know, three months, not much, and then they dumped me on the front line, and then suddenly my eyes opened, and I'm like, holy, and then you have to take care of so many wounded soldiers, and serious trauma, not just like a little laceration, and quickly I said, you know what, I need to get my game off to take care of these soldiers, and Do a better job at what I'm doing.
I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I just have an ambulance, a driver, and I have to take care of this seriously wounded soldier. So, I started reading and getting literature and trauma books and medical books. I had no idea the terms because I was born a mathematician. I became very interested and started studying and helping those soldiers, so after two years being on the front line, when I was done, then I was able to get my passport.
Because they won't give you a passport or a driver's license unless you finish your service. So, I got my passport and I got out. So, I told my parents, I'm not going to stay here. I got to go for my higher education. So, I'm leaving here. So, I packed on my own. Went to Germany. Stayed there for 3 4 months.
Went around. I didn't like it at all. Nothing bad about German people. But I didn't feel like this was going to be my home. So, I said, you know what, I'm going to go to the land of opportunity and that's where I put my eyes on and. Finally, I got a student visa to come to the United States and started studying.
No language. I had barely spoken anything. So, 23 signed up for community colleges English as a second language. So, I studied there and also, I took my classes like prerequisite for pre-med because then I changed my mind to become a medical. So, I started, you know, math stuff I was good at. I didn't have to put any effort, like physics calculus and stuff.
I was taking those classes and I was taking art classes, which was biology. I had no knowledge of that. So, I started taking those along, taking English classes and after well, I studied English for a couple of years before I went to community college. Then after two years of community college, I applied for University of California at Berkeley.
And I got full scholarship to go there and get, actually I studied in molecular cell biology and nearest and study, double major. And I got full ride and I'm very thankful for them that they realized who I was and they loved my story. And they knew I had a mission. So, that was lovely. So, I studied, I finished my education there.
Then I wanted to... I had no idea how to go to medical school. Honestly, I always asked. One of the things that I recommend for people that they don't know where direction, what direction to go in this country or any country, all you have to do, ask. There are a lot of people out there that they're willing to help, especially in the United States, honestly, this country is named.
The resources are infinite. Like, there is, there is so much information and so many people are willing to help you out. Along, I had no, I had no connection. Zero connection. All I had to do, ask, I asked my professor at community college, how do I go to become a doctor? He goes, first you have to go to university.
I'm like, how do I go there? He goes, like, these are the applications. And he wrote me a letter of recommendation from Berkeley. So, that's how I got in there. I started asking people, how do I go to medical school? They said, CAMCAM. So, you know, I asked people. They helped me, they guided me through, navigate through my life.
And I just followed their direction. I worked hard. I worked. Well, I went to school. All along from 8 to 4 p. m. and from 5
- m. I was busboy and then I became a waiter, working at night till midnight. Almost coming back home in BART station from San Francisco to Oakland where I was living because San Francisco was expensive. I was doing all my homework while I was on BART. So, anyhow, so I finished Berkeley. I went to UCSF in San Francisco Bay Area while I was working in that area.
I also did research. In the laboratory and I figured out I could finish my MCAT and application and I got to medical school, four years in Chicago, wonderful experience, great friends I made there. I got some direction; I did a lot of. Let's say rotation during my last year of medical school. So, I knew what direction I want to go because you can eliminate things that you don't want it.
So, I knew I don't want to be a COVID 19 because the lifestyle was like chaotic. I didn't want to be ER doctor. It was not matching my lifestyle and the way I... That is my life. I knew I'm going to be a miserable person but I like surgery but I didn't know what and what kind. I just kept my mind open and I, I went to different locations and I finally found my love.
With the ear, nose, and throat, head and neck surgery, very complex and very artistic in some sense. I got accepted to go to Philadelphia College of Medicine, PCOM is called and there, I got a chance to, again, when you go to ENT, Ear, Nose, and Throat Head and Neck Surgery, there are different variations and that's a specialty there are, you can do ear surgery, specializing in ear, specializing in rhinology, specializing in voice especially the head and neck reconstructive surgery or facial plastic surgery.
So, it's not like one thing, it can be broad or it can be subspecialized. So, since I was, you know, I like art, I like painting, and I took classes while I was in school. So, in Philadelphia I took some painting and sculpting to redevelop my skill in a different setting, so I was taking side by side.
While I was resident, I was taking classes at night at art schools for honing my skill, and I gravitated toward more facial plastic surgery. Then I finished some of my training in facial plastic surgery in Philadelphia, and I went to Seattle to further develop my do a fellowship to get better at my cosmetic procedures rather than reconstructive.
Thank you. And thereafter well, I met my wonderful wife in East Coast before I moved to Seattle, which we get married. She was working at NIH. She was a fellow Ph. D. and studying immunology. And we were introduced through two different friend of ours. And we met, and then we got to know each other.
Both from Iran, but I just met through friends and... Wonderful, super smart gal, beautiful, so we met and we got married, literally, and we moved to Seattle as a kid, right away. I'm like, that was like, not a good idea, but it was just an accident, I would say. Which my daughter now, just we dropped her off at MIT yesterday.
So, not a bad thing, so I'm glad we kept her.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how'd you end up in Newport Beach? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: So, after I finished my fellowship in Seattle, I intended to stay there because the, my program director wanted to hand me his practice himself, the practice to me. But my wife said, no, no, no, no, this, this environment.
Makes me very depressed. The weather was like gloomy, raining, confusing for us. Because, you know, you barely see sunshine. I said, no, we can't develop our own land here. We just got to, better, if we, either we go back to East Coast, or if you want to go back to San Francisco, Bay Area that you were talking about, how good it was, we go over there.
So, I applied for a lot of positions in Bay Area, but there was not much of facial plastic interest. And I said, you know what, I'm going to try Southern California. Boy, I got ten different interviews. So, I got interviews with a group of plastic surgeons that they didn't have facial plastic surgeons. So, I joined in.
I worked with them for two years. Then I got recruited by Lifestyle Lift, which was a basically I would call a facelift machine. They were like a huge company with advertising on TV and they're bringing that like to satellite offices all over the country. And they recruited physicians who were doing facelifting to do a mini facelift in office settings.
So, for me it was a great opportunity because I got to do thousands of facelifts there. And I honed, I created my own technique. Not to be just a mini facelift that they intended to do for people. Because people want to go facial rejuvenation. What they show on TV and what they were asking people to do was two different stories.
They wanted the bare minimum, cheap little face procedure, little skin, and but the people that were advertising on TV, they were like full on faceless. So, it was kind of deceptive in my opinion, but I was, I had an obligation in my heart that said, you know what, these people are coming to me, they want facial rejuvenation and not...
Not just looking at the price, what they pay. So, I developed my own technique, and I'm really producing great results. But after a while, you know, it became like so many, like pushing you to do more and more surgeries in a day. Some surgeons were doing six surgeries a day. I'm like, this is like a melt shot.
Like, I can't do more than three. I count seven. A. m. to 7 p. m. I do three, and there were some people doing like six cases, and then they were done by 5 or 6, and I'm like, wow. So, I, it just, the culture became very toxic in corporate, so I, in the middle of recession, it was end of, like, 2010, I, even with bad, bad economy, I got out and I said, you know what, I'm going to start my own thing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, I know lifestyle live was such a big deal the minute I turned 50 in my mailbox was that packet and it was brochures βbefore and aftersβ testimonials. It was a, it was a band aid, not a bandage. It was a. Not even stitches like it was soβ¦it was those people knew how to talk to women, but I don't know about the result of that, but they were saying literally like no general anesthesia, no stitches, no, no downtime, no, and I'm like, this is a miracle. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
I mean, I know better because I'm in the industry, but so many consumer women. Went for it. It was a big deal until it imploded, but good, good experience on your end though, huh? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: No, no, no, it was great. I mean, you know what? In life, I never say I had a bad experiences were stepping stones. Absolutely. Even I hated it at the end, and I was like feeling sorry why the hell I did that in my life, but now I look at it and say, if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be efficient.
I wouldn't be Understanding the anatomy better. I would then take the different steps to create new techniques. So, yeah, it was terrible, but again, like more, I. Turn the bad situation. So, that's my, my thinking. I always even if I'm in the worst situation ever, I try to look at how I can do something that I, I can exist in that situation.
makes sense or not. So, even that was bad. Even I had my patients on TV because I was doing really a procedure than what they were advertising. So, they were, a couple of my patients were on TV for, you know, their advertisement had this infomercial actually. So, with all that, again, it was. stepping stone for me, but I left in the middle of a financial crisis coming to a new practice.
I got one room. And plastic surgeon in Newport, nobody knew of me, I was very low key, I started, I said, you know what, I'm going to start producing some good results, let the results talk. I'm not going to do huge advertising or anything, let people talk about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Were you also doing recon to bring in some money? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Yeah, so I, I started doing obviously some cosmetic procedure faces. Some of my patients found out about me where I was now referring their friends. But again, it was not enough to sustain so I was from very high income. I was making very good income. Suddenly dropped to almost new. So, I started doing some ENT stuff.
Also, even I was not comfortable doing it. I didn't want to do it. But, hey, you're running a medical practice. It's a business. You have to feed your employees. You have to sustain your system. So, I continued doing some work for other surgeons. Your ENT on the side. While I was developing my business.
You know, you got to pay for website development. You got to pay for... Certain things that, you know, you don't know exist until you put your hands and make your hands dirty and you go, Oh, I'm missing a fax machine here. That cost this much. So, initially everything is cost you. And developing business is very costly, but you have to be patient.
You got to develop gradually. Cut the cost down and then don't overspend because you don't want to run out of money. And then go slowly. So, that's my advice to people who are starting. You know, if you don't have a dad or somebody who can lend you tons of money like me. I was just... I had, I saved some money, but I, again, I didn't want to, I didn't know how this all was going to unfold.
You were not easy to navigate. So, I went very slowly to learn what business is. I had no idea about business because somebody else was constantly running the business part of it for me. Whether it was that big practice or lifestyle, I was hands off. So, I had no idea of what it means to have credit card processing, to have insurance.
All that stuff was like foreign. So, you start learning and start developing practice, developing a website, a printout, how to write it, what to write. How to describe yourself. All that stuff takes time. So, anyhow, and as you know, in Newport Beach there are hundreds of, around me, there are literally 85 plastic surgeons around me in less than a mile radius.
But I didn't feel competition. I didn't want to compete with anyone or get into competition. It's not a competition. The only way I compete... And I see somebody's good, I want to have better before and after results than that person. Otherwise, I don't have anything bad to say about anybody. If their results are not good, well, that's their limitation.
If the results are good, I want to beat that result. That's how I think. That's my own shortcoming if I can't do that. So, that's how I look at it. So, I put my head down, start working on myself. Start fine tuning my own technique and... Honestly, just word of mouth, you know, hairdressers, referring people to me other doctors.
I wasn't doing any injectables or anything initially. So, there were some, some physicians who had med squad who see my patients and They get injectables and say, who did your face? Oh, Dr. Sadati. Oh, okay. And then they start asking and then referral coming in from them, from her address, from all over.
Primary care physician. So, I start getting busy and I said, you know what? I needed my medicine. So, the beauty of the time, I said adverse times, sometimes great times. In 2010, a lot of med spots were going out of business. So, there was a fantastic location, was opening, was already a mess, well, this lady was just wanted to get out of her lease.
So, I went in there, and she has some nicely decorated office, and she goes, Oh, I'm on 500, 000 for P. I. I said, Listen, I don't have any of that. I'll give you 50, 000, let me come in. She goes, Oh, what's wrong with this? And then I waited, I'm I said, Yeah, I don't want to pay a rent. I'm going to take this. No kidding.
Yeah, I got lucky. I mean, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you have to ask.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you went from 500 to 50? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Yeah. That's amazing. I said that's all I have. I can't come with any more money. I don't have anything going on for me. That's it. Anyhow, gave her 50, moved in. I had to do a little T. I. to make it so specific.
To my own way of practice, I created a little procedure room and I started doing those safely. I was doing in office, in my new office because I didn't have a, so became busy. And then I brought injectable nurses. I brought aesthetic on board. And it started getting more and more staff, and I had 2, 500 square feet for me, and it was getting, I was running out of space.
And I told my lander, listen, I got to leave I got to find a bigger place. She goes, oh, where are you going? I said, well, I got to find a place. She goes, no, I like you, I want you to stay here. I'm like, you don't have any more room. She goes, what do you want to do? I said, I need more space upstairs, I want to create a little bigger office.
She goes, well. I'll, I'll let you have that upstairs. I said, well, there are three doctors up there. What are you going to do with them? He goes, I move up. Landlord moved those three doctors. She created another TI, another office they had. He gave it to them. And she told me, whatever you want to do here, show me your plan.
I showed my plan. She goes, yeah, you can have it. So, I got another 2, 500 square feet on the second floor. And then I designed my office that you've seen the photos of it. Is staircase.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It is breathtakingly gorgeous. Yes. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Yes. Absolutely beautiful. So, I had a great and amazing architect. I got lucky. I found this guy with Han.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just had him on the podcast. Yes, heβs great. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: He's amazing. He's a genius, almost. Mm-hmm. , I would say. In what he does. So, he came out and looked at the place I wanted to do bare minimum changes, keep this here, keep this, put a little staircase, don't worry about it, talk about it. And then, finally he came up with the idea, I helped him do design and all, and then suddenly...
You can't have something like spectacular, but it took 18 months to build it because okay. While we're working on the first floor, they were building the second and then we moved from second floor. To the first from first floor to the second floor, they start building down there and when it came to build, to connect the two floors, they had to cut the whole floor and then connect it, build a brand-new staircase.
It was not like purchasing from Home Depot, they had to build it. So, it was a huge... Dilemma with the city of going back and forth. I have to go to city, talk to the development department, myself, sit there and just explaining things. So, finally I built it, I built my own OR, that's what I recommend with surgeons who start.
If they are able to have their own operating room, they will go 10 miles ahead of anybody else. Because you own your own time. Where a surgery center, you have to abide with the time they have available. They have limited time, limited surgery. If I want to do surgery tomorrow... I can tell myself, okay, tomorrow, with the case tomorrow, we start early, so I push the patients down a little bit.
Consultation or whatever. I can do a case. So, if I have an informed, you know, case that I a surgery center, maybe they're full, so you can't do anything. So, one of the recommendations for surgeons, I know it's going to be difficult. What made me successful, I think, in terms of my own way of looking at it, having my own surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Every surgeon I've ever talked to has said, It was the best thing they've ever done. It was painful doing it. . Yeah. The per the permits are a nightmare. And but it was a priceless the time that they did. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Yeah, listen, if it is not hard, it's not going to be good. I mean, you have to pay the price.
You pay the price, but you're going to have the trophy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Talking about that trophy, how different do you feel? Does your staff feel? Do your patients feel in an environment like that? And anyone who doesn't, hasn't been to this website, you have to check it out. It's DrKevinSadati.com. Don't go now because you're listening to the podcast, but DrKevinSadati.com. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
The stair, their staircase is exquisite. It's just lovely. How much has that changed your Vision of you and your world and your life well in. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Okay. What it did, first of all, it gave me more space to grow. Yeah. I was able to bring another surgeon on board and I may be able to bring another surgeon. So, you're talking about, if you're talking about business, That's how it develops.
The more space you have, the more room you have to grow. If you're in a 1, 500 square feet, how are you going to fit another surgeon in there? There's no way. So, the more space you have, the more you can grow. So, I have one surgeon right now, so I'm doing facial rejuvenation surgeries and some rhinoplasty.
And the other surgeon is doing body contour. So, very complimentary. And so, I also have enough space to bring another surgeon on board right now. I have a surgical facility. They can operate here. Let's say if you have, like, each one of you two days a week, one of us, we can go across the street to a, in a surgery center.
So, more revenue comes to the practice. And also, you have the staff that are fully trained to do what you want. Not in a surgery center. You go, they do foot surgery. They really do. Laparoscopy, and then you show up, you want to do a face. That's a whole, that's a whole different mindset. So, the beauty of having your own surgical facility is, you train your staff to do exactly what you want them to do, so you become more efficient.
So, you're not wasting your time looking for a suture that they don't have. You're not looking for, oh Jack didn't show up today so Joe is here, he's never worked with you, so imagine how that surgeon is Through the whole operation. It's not going to be easy. So, having your own place, having your own staff is hugely advantageous.
Having your own surgery center is definitely a must for a surgeon who can afford it, and you know, you got to take risks. The way I look at it, a lot of people say, Oh my god, you spent all this money on the furniture and staircase and the whole Italian... Stuff that you imported from sync to this and that. I said, yeah.
Okay. I look at it over 10 years period. I'm not talking about 20 years. 10 years period that I got the loan. Okay. Over this 10 years period. Let's say I spend 2 million for renovation on all the equipment and everything. 200, 000 a year and it's about 18, 000 a month. Nice. That's not much.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And look at the benefits of it. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: So, how did the patient... So, that's what I mean. So... When you look small, when you're small, you think small, and then 18, 000, oh my god, 18, 000. But when you have more space, now you have another surgeon, possibly another surgeon. I have nurse injectors; I have a nurse who does lasers and PRP and microneedling. I have a statistician that does facial, and I have other stuff, I have more equipment.
That's all. You, you, you attract more individuals coming to your practice and provide services for them. So, that 18, 000 literally is a peanut when you think about it, of what you benefit to get. And you have, I have a place that I love when I show up at work, I look at my office, I walk in it. I feel good.
It's not like I'm going, oh my god, look at this carpet. It's still like looking like 1970s carpet. Yeah. So, you know, I enjoy it. And my staff love it. Are patients enjoying it, but I didn't do it to show off anything. I did it for myself to enjoy it and also expand my business, be able to bring other surgeons on board.
So, I don't want to work all day. So, I have somebody else also. Working. I'm not working.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, and that's how you scale. You bring on other revenue generators so you're not the only one you know, holding up the whole ship. The do you find that you can charge more when you have set yourself up like this because the patients look at it and say, okay, I don't think he's going to be negotiating with me. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Do you feel that at all? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, initially I thought, okay, well, let me tell you a story. So, my, my project finished. November of 2019. Guess what happened? Pandemic happened three months later. Dear lord, dear lord. I'm like, oh crap. Yeah. Yeah, who's going to show up in my office? We're ready to just like, we had a big party going on.
Opening party, a year ago. Pandemic, close the door. Oh, nobody talks to me. Everything went zoom, like this. So, it was funny, the way things turned out to be. But, to be honest with you, yes, the prices went up, but again, having my own storage center, I was able to do not the plain face and necklace. In my own surgery center, where as before, I had just a little procedure room.
You can't do deep plane in a procedure room because you can't bring anesthesiologist. Or give IV Sedation, you're not permitted. So, that helped me to grow. Now, as you know, deep plane facelift is a whole different level than doing a smash facelift. So, going from that gave me an opportunity to grow myself.
So, utilize... My knowledge and training that I have to do the next level. So, therefore I started doing deep plane face and neck lift. So, that and also working on my social media. Now I have better before and after pictures, more drastic results. Not in a bad way. Whatever I do is natural. I'm not into creating, as I tell people, I'm not here to create a movie star here.
I'm just here to create a rejuvenated version of people. I think that way, and I think the most natural way is the best way to represent a person so they look more youthful. Without being changed. So, all that said, I'm able to do that with my deep plank face and neck lift. I'm still fine tuning, constantly learning, and always studying.
I want to get it the best it can be. And constantly working on it, studying my own results, and get better at it, and take it to it. Next level.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And how helpful has it been for you to differentiate yourself because you are in a crazy uber competitive area? Do many do deep plane down there in Newport Beach and do they do them under local and twilight? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, they, they call it deep plane but frankly it's not a true deep plane. It's a high mass space lift that was popularized. for plastic surgeons for a long time is they call it deep plane, but frankly, they don't release any of these ligaments to go under this mass. They only elevate this mass here, which is non mobile mass.
So, this mass is non mobile in this area, which no matter how much you lift, it lifts everything up, but it's not lifting this mass where it's mobile. Whereas a true deep plane or extended deep plane What I do, I release the ligaments from here, here, and the neck area I put under where muscles and nerves and vessels are, deeper.
And then lift the whole unit at once in more of a vertical way, rather than going horizontally backwards. So, the direction is more upwards. So, basically, after I release the ligaments from the zygoma, we call it here, the cheek. This tissue, It ends up here. This part, the ligament from here will end up here and the neck, this part, will end up in the back.
So, everything goes the direction that was falling. So, now I'm doing a lot of those and people from all over the world, literally, different states fly here. Obviously, I get... You know, 50 percent of state.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Yeah, I've had both and I like the D Plane a lot. You don't get that hockey stick that thing on the side, you know, where you get that, it's a natural feel there and it feels much more of substance. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
It feels like a more structure has been put back in place. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, it's like you're addressing the issue where it's the problem. You know, I did a smash lift for a long time, and I did great results, but it didn't last. I mean, my own technique that I developed, great results. It looks good, but it only lasted four, five, five years.
Right. Okay? Right. So, obviously the price range for it is much lower too, but at the same time, I didn't get patients to look weird, and hockey is none of that business, because I created the triple C plaque patient.
A lot of people wanted to last longer, so in order to do that, you have to release, you have to do the hard work, you have to go zone and mind blowing, and, and I truly enjoy when I sit down doing surgery, I really enjoy doing it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I have to compliment you on your before and after photos. Not only are they natural, but there are a lot of them and they're all consistent. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
You have the same background, the same views. How in the world, because everybody says to me, Oh, Catherine, the women will not show their faces online. And I say, then how come some surgeons get hundreds of photos and you don't, you know? So, what's your secret? How are you getting those photos? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, honestly, the volume.
It's a lot. I mean, I do average five days to four weeks. So, and then, once you have a reputation, once you have per se, you have some notoriety, people want to be on your website. People ask me, say, I want to be on your Instagram. Meaning they wanted a review. Honestly, I don't ask him. I just say, you know, talk to him.
And then later on my for consenting for photography and videography. They say, yeah, alright. And then my social media person interviews him. And the photos are consistent. I, I don't like to deceive people from before pictures with no makeup, right before surgery, and then when they all dolled up, they come for two, two months, three months post op and take your and oranges.
So, I like to, if they have makeup beforehand, I would allow them to have makeup after-hand. Or if they don't, I would say just, you know, whatever you did for pre op, do the same thing. So, even if you wear the same clothes, if you can. So, people don't get distracted by nonsense of jewelry or whatever you have.
Look at your face. So, that's the secret.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And the videos, too. How are you getting that done? Do you have a social media person who's really good at directing somebody on video? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: So, I brought the gentleman who was working in construction videography and social media. But I, I helped him to understand what we do here.
I help him to, you know, I don't micromanage, but I give him ideas. I said, okay. This is what we're looking for. Think about it. Like, think about what the final results are. And how you're going to interview that interviewee. And then you can and then when you, we When you're interviewing afterward, You bring that idea and kind of match it.
If you look at my videos, what they did beforehand. If they smile at the video and then just come next to each other. It's just. Mirror image of each other. So, you can see exactly the same facial features that has been transcribed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, your Instagram is killer. You have like 205,000 followers. It would you say that's your main marketing channel or is it still your website and SEO? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Where are these patients coming from? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: So, as we all know, things came off. First was yellow pages, and newspaper advertising, and Riviera magazine, this and that. And then became, websites became like the things that you have to have. Now, a website is becoming obsolete, but they are like references. You have to have a wonderful website, a working website, but a website is more local.
So, if you have a website, only your server on Google is not going to make you visible in a Swiss server, or visible in Minnesota. You're just visible in Orange County at best. If you're, you know, you're well optimized. So, it's difficult to go out if you're alone because Google wants everybody to be localized.
That's, that's the way they're modeled. So, social media gave us another, I woke up to it late. I didn't think of it as a game changer or anything. I thought it was just like, first of all, the young people posting like a photo. Before it was like photos, like sitting by the beach. Like, my patients are older patients, they're So, I was thinking small, that's what it was.
And then once I realized, hey, I have Instagram, you know, my friends are older, they have Instagram, so why not? But it has to be... Different. You can't copy and paste somebody else's. You have to have your own taste into it. Obviously, there are people who have millions of followers. They started early. They built their followers and attracted people.
Nowadays, it's very different. But, you know, I'm not trying to compete with anybody. I just put my content, I put a little flair of myself into it. But if you before and after pictures are not, I mean, they're not good. No matter what you do, it's not going to grow. You know, you have to have some stuff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And also, how much time are you spending on your social media channel? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: So, it's honestly, it's it, I can't put a quantity. Throughout the day, but if I have patients who said, yes, I want to be videoed, obviously we do video the patient beforehand, my videographer does that. And then during the surgery time, when I mark everything, they video that intraoperatively, that he comes in and video some of that.
And then we interview him a day after surgery. So, it doesn't, honestly, if you have somebody who does that for you and you train them that's why you have staff. You can't do it. Some surgeons, they do everything themselves. You can't be good at everything. I delegate a lot of stuff and I have great staff.
I'm not a super good business person, but I surround myself with people who understand business, how to interview staffing, and hiring, and HR. I'm not good at it. I'm soft. You know, I can't do that kind of stuff. I'm very soft in terms of HR and stuff. But I have people who do that. I find talents, and I will give them the feel, direction, and I tell them, this is your own business.
Take care of it. I don't want to micromanage you. These are the things I'm looking to. These are my visions. But I want you to be creative. I want you to put your spice into it too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's the biggest challenge of running a practice in today's world? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: HR. Yeah, I hear that. Hiring the right people and finding the right people.
I don't know what happened after 10. Well, it was always challenging, believe it or not. But post-pandemic, it seems like all the employees... Melted away. It's just like, where did these people go? It's just like you can't find nurses. You find some people, like they're not qualified for what I'm looking for.
So, I compensate myself really well because once I find the goal, I'm not going to let him go. I compensate him, I give him like, even the social media guy, I give him bonuses. If he creates let's say, a video that, you know, there are 10,000 comments in 24 hours, I give him bonus. I said, you did amazing.
Obviously, I did the work. He presented in a way that people enjoyed it. So, I give him bonus. That's how I, you know, appreciate him doing that. Or, if, if I see my medical assistant is going out of their ways to take care of patients who just had surgery and have a lot of questions and hand holding, I give him bonus.
That's a great idea. Yeah, CLM you know, wants to make staff a part of your practice. Like, meaning they put their blood and tears into it. They would. I mean, they, and they feel that they're getting confidence. People start not working when they feel like they're working more than they are valued. So, I compliment them, I, not only verbally, but also.
I, I don't, you know, boss him around. I, I tell him, I'm, I'm a team player. I'm, I'm like Michael Jordan, let's say. If nobody passes the ball for me, there's no way I can score. Yeah. So, it's like a teamwork. I may be the surgeon who produces most here, but again, if I don't have my medical assistant, there's nobody who's going to take care of my patients.
If the front desk is not behaving correctly or answering people correctly, I'm not going to have patients. So, I put them on bonus structure. So, okay, if you, people call, and then they convert to a console, I pay you. Because you did your work, you, you stay in connection with that. The individual, you ask them to send information, you follow up with them.
If they don't care, it's okay, I'm in consult. Okay, if they don't follow up with that individual, it's going to get lost. And so, it's important to incentivize individuals who work for you so they feel appreciated. That's the way, it's a form of success. You're sharing success with others in terms of...
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well, and it's still a surefire way to get somebody to go above and beyond mediocrity because oftentimes staff today just do the job and you're looking for somebody who's willing to go above and beyond and really be a professional. And honestly, I don't know how else to do it. You have to give them a why. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
And the why is yes, we're a team player and. When you go above and beyond, you're rewarded above and beyond but back to staff again on your website. I see that you can use Spanish and 1 of the issues is I used to find staff for doctors all the time and then they said, well, now I need Spanish and that made it even 10 times harder because now I need somebody with skill and they speak Spanish and they're bilingual. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Have you found that to be a challenge? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, it'sβ¦I try to be multicultural so when I hire, if, I mean, they're challenging to find good people, but if they're, I don't look at people's colors or anything, I look at people who are talented. So, I have all different kinds of nationalities, per se, in my, or African American, Chinese Latina all kind of Greek Persians.
All kinds of individuals. I have about 18 staff here. So, having somebody who speaks Spanish, I wish I was able to speak Spanish because my Instagram is just like nonstop, like they're asking Spanish questions. And I answer some of those. And you mentioned how much time you put on that? Well, one of the things I do is constantly reading my people commenting.
I answer not all of them. If you have 400 comments, there's no way I can go. But if somebody asks the location or what's the cost of the procedure, I have to respond to them. But a lot of them in Spanish, I don't understand it. So, that's one of the challenges. So, I'm bringing AI. I signed up with an AI company that helps you manage your...
Social media in terms of translation, although Instagram translates some of that, but not in the messaging. When somebody sends a DM, those cannot be translated. So, using AI to answer some of it. So, I, yeah, I'm on my phone when I'm at home, like nobody's around, I'm just doing that. So, it's a constant.
24 hours, I would say not 24 hours, but it just, it takes a lot of time because it's a part of your revenue making part of your business. And you can't ignore it is, is, is a source that people look at you and they want answers. If somebody asked me what's the cost of this procedure, obviously they have some sort of interest.
And if you don't answer them, they're just going to, okay, this guy. Just put a before and after picture out there and it doesn't say what the hell is going on. So, kind of, you got to communicate. It's another one way of, I have a megaphone in my hand and say, Oh, I'm a great doctor. I did a case before this treatment.
You have to also hear what they have a lot of time, honestly. Just, I don't have all the time for it. Get help from my social media guy. He's busy creating videos. One of my second managers or operating directors, she answers. We all try to help each other to answer. It's a lot, you know. Each day, like three, four hundred comments.
It's difficult to manage, but hopefully I bring it. I brought another person to do that, but again, Didn't have good luck. Honestly, I brought three different people that were not up for the task. You know, they say they are qualified. Again, a lot of people say, oh, I'm a social media expert. You bring them in, poor taste of design, some of them.
Some of them, poor writing skill. I'm like, okay, how do you communicate with people? You can't write cos omg, like, you know, you're not talking to your friends. This is business. So, it's, it's a challenge. I hope I find somebody else to bring on board to help me communicate with my
Catherine Maley, MBA: That one's kind of a numbers game, trying that social media person. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
I would say that's our weakest link in most practices is the social media person only because generally speaking, they're younger, they don't know the expectations. They don't, they haven't worked in the real world yet, like the real business world. And you're right. You think that they're just talking to their friends and know where this is professional now. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
And they need a lot more direction. And I don't know about the reliability. They don't want to come in. Often, you know, they do their thing. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: And they show up like if I have one show up at noon, you're supposed to be at nine o'clock. I mean, we're going to start at eight seven a. m. Nine o'clock. This is like bankers off nine to five Noon, where are you?
Oh, just like a party last night and get up. I'm like what?
Catherine Maley, MBA: If it's any consolation, it's a very common situation there. So, the last question, so we can wrap this up, tell us something very interesting we don't know about you. Although I think you coming from Iran through a revolution is fascinating and I'd love to hear more about that. What else you got? We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, I'm very outdoor person. I like mountain biking, road biking, snowboarding. And enjoy traveling, and those are, and also, I paint, and I don't have time to do sculpting, because that takes a lot of time, but all this stuff, those are things some people know about me, some people don't, but I, I try to balance my life By dedicating certain time, like, I get up early in the morning, 5 o'clock, and I want to be healthy. I want to be around my kids to see my kids graduate from college. At least, maybe I see my grandkids. So, I just turned 60, and I want to be healthy and in good shape, hopefully.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, congratulations. I think you're just are doing a heck of a job and you can always fall back on the art and sculpting if the plastic surgery doesn't work out. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
Kevin Sadati, DO: Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a joke. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?Kevin Sadati, DO: Alright, we'll get trained to go to a different office.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't think so. You It's DrKevinSadati.Com. The office is absolutely lovely. The before and after photos are amazing. The social media is. Spot on. I'm not just coming from me. I'll just looking at inside, you know, looking into your inside. We know you were born in Iran, but how did or does this impact or relate to you being βmade in Americaβ?
You're doing all the right things. So, congratulations.
Kevin Sadati, DO: Well, thank you. I appreciate it for having me. And it was really a pleasure talking to you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Thank you so much. And please, if you feel like it, please give me a nice review so we can spread the word.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Sadati was born in Iran but made in America.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Sadati you can reach out to his website at, DrKevinSadati.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Sadati for sharing his journey on being born in Iran but made in America.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βBorn in Iran but Made in America β with Kevin Sadati, DOβ.
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying your mentor's building.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Buying Your Mentorβs Building β with Behrooz A. Torkian, MD".
Typically, after residency, you do a one-year fellowship where you get invaluable hands-on surgical experience from other successful experienced surgeons.
You also get the βbehind the scenesβ look at the business and marketing of how you run a successful practice, which is also invaluable.
And, sometimes, you get even more. Such as, buying your mentor's building.
I recently interviewed Dr. Behrooz Torkian, a facial cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in uber-competitive Beverly Hills.
We talked on the topic of "buying your mentor's building":
- How he ended up buying the building from the very surgeon who mentored him years ago
- His plans to expand by opening a separate med spa a distance away; and,
- How he got on the TV show "The Doctors" three times and the impact that had on his practice and profits.
Visit Dr. Torkianβs website P.S. Want my 5-Star Rated Book for FREE? Leave me a review and I'll send it out to you!
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Transcript:
**Buying Your Mentor's Building β with Behrooz A. Torkian, MD** **Catherine Maley, MBA:** Hello and welcome to Beauty in the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying your mentorβs building. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's guest is Dr. Behrooz Torkian, and he's a facial and reconstructive surgeon (whoβs well-versed in the statement of βbuying your mentorβs buildingβ), practicing in uber competitive Beverly Hills. Now, Dr. Torkian specializes in rhinoplasty and facial plastic surgery, as well as reconstructive surgery, and he performs his surgery at the historic Lasky Clinic, and we're going to talk more about that.
Now, he attended Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, and then his specialty training in head and neck surgery at the University of California, Irvine, where he also participated in the prestigious fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery conducted by the AAFPRS. Dr. Torkian, it is a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz.
It's been a while getting you on here.
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Thank you so much. And yes, I've been looking forward to this, I think for three years now. I think the first time we connected regarding the podcast was during lockdown, during the COVID lockdown. And at that time, I said, yes, let's do it. But I don't know what came up.
I think what happened is that we were trying to figure out how to open the office again.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Well, now we have more to talk about, you know? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Now we have a lot more to talk. A lot has happened since then. The zoom boom is real.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes. So, what I would love to do. And the part I like so much is your journey from training to entering the real marketplace. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
What was that journey like? Because it's usually a fairly jagged road, or was yours a straight shot to Lasky clinic? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Oh, no. Okay. So, Lasky Clinic was a dream a, a, almost like a, kind of like a golden egg on a pedestal type of thing in, in facial plastic surgery. Pretty much any head and neck surgery program that has a facial plastic surgery program associated with it or within it has, has, Some conversation about, Oh, well, you can always go train at Lasky clinic.
That would be just the ultimate. And so, that's what it was like back then. Hopefully people still view it that way, but I'll tell you, my history. And I've been listening to your podcast and some of my colleagues on the podcast is not that different actually from many of my colleagues in, in head and neck, facial plastic surgery.
Many of us get into this, not knowing that we want to get into this. What happened with me was very similar to most of my colleagues, but I got into medicine not thinking that I was interested in plastic surgery. In fact, that wasn't, I, it was something that I thought was frivolous and it just didn't make sense.
And why would you want to go through a procedure for something like that? Just didn't know at that point, I wasn't enlightened to how much we can help people with the skills that we have and how important of a role we do play in their lives. But the initial reason I went to medical school was because I wanted to practice within my limits of knowledge of, or of my passion of microbiology and molecular genetics, and I wanted to apply molecular genetics to pediatric oncology.
That was, I was going to be a pediatrician, oncologist, and I was going to learn how to trick viruses to make cancer treatments, which are now finally happening about two decades later, which is why I didn't go into that field, of course. But many things happened since then, you know. Few people hold your hand, you get the right kind of influences around you, you get the right kind of mentorship, and then someone stops you along the way and says, son, you've got good hands and you need to use them.
And so, that's, that's kind of how you get into the surgical realm from medical school. A lot of people don't go to medical school thinking that they want to be surgeons either, they just don't know, you know. And so, as a kid, I was always very manual, took a lot of little tiny things apart and put them back together, turned radios into...
into hands free cell telephones and, you know, all kinds of cool stuff like that, gadgets that I thought I was inventing. And I learned again and again, and I still do today, that no idea is ever really had by me alone. And it's never the first time it's been had. The idea had a life of its own and it's been around.
And so, never invented anything that was brand new. But when I, when I, was at Vanderbilt, we had an amazing head and neck department. And I sat in on a couple of lectures where I learned a little bit more about the intricate anatomy of the head and neck, loved it. And that was my initial passion. And then I saw some of these kids who were getting reconstructed with their cleft lips and or burns at the corners of their mouths.
And sometimes with big scalp defects and I saw some of the big grotesque looking tissue expanders and those things just really piqued my interest in plastic surgery. And so, as, as someone who loved the anatomy of the head and neck, I stuck with the head and neck training and was one of 13, usually there's 2 percent of each class that go into head and neck surgery.
In our class of 100, 13 of us applied to head and neck surgery that year. Super competitive. Almost everybody got a head and neck. surgical Residency a few didn't and then they did it later in different ways But many of us went into facial plastic surgery So, I have colleagues all around from north Carolina to here to la that went to medical school with me to practice the same thing It's just been Yeah, it's been really interesting.
And there must have been some really strong influences and mentorship at that time. And so, that, that started me in the head of neck. And then at UC Irvine, my chairman, Roger Crumbly, who I, I adore to this day, I should be in more contact with him, love him. And my other amazing mentor, Tim Kelly. Really held my hand through this process and I just wanted to be like them, you know, that's that was what I wanted to do and they were both facial plastic surgeons in our head and neck program.
It's kind of rare to have a head and neck Surgery program have a facial plastic surgeon as their chairman But Dr. Crumley did that and he was one of the few in the country that ever did it And it was just an amazing influence to have him around us. It was it was wonderful and so that's how I got into it and then Lassie Clinic was just a dream.
I thought, you know, I could train here. I came and interviewed here for a fellowship with Dr. Kamer. I'm now sitting in his office. So, for those of you that can see this on video, these windows here used to look on Dr. Kamer and that, that, I never dreamed that I could have this. But I came here as a fellowship applicant.
And at the time I was kind of geographically strapped to the Southern California area. My wife was a medical student at UCSD and then she got her residency at Cedars Sinai and I was at UC Irvine and we were commuting from in between and so on. And so, I thought, you know, I told Dr. Kamer, I think this is the place for me.
I grew up here. I grew up in Sherman Oaks. Around the corner, I have family in West LA and we just had a baby and we want to be near the family and he said this could be a great place for you. But I still ended up at UC Irvine for, I won't say what reasons, but it had a little bit to do with me and a little bit to do with Dr.
Kamer, probably. But I, I still ended up at UC Irvine and did my fellowship there. And then years later, I was practicing with a dermatologist that I befriended because. to, to be frank and to make this story a little cuter. My grandmother met him and wanted to set him up with my cousin. Oh my god. She said, she said, you're perfect for my, for my granddaughter and I want you to meet my granddaughter.
And in, in the process of trying to get them hooked up, she introduced me to him because she said, you guys are both young doctors, you should know each other, should be friends. He just moved here from Ohio. His name is Don McRobbie, and she said you should be friends. And I said, great grandma Thank you So, we made friends and he and I had this dream about at that time Paul Nassif and Dr. Amaron were together and we thought look these guys did this thing where they had a facial plastic surgeon and dermatologist These are synergistic fields.
We had this dream of making our Center Better than theirs we were going to be the skin and face center and we were just going to kill it And so, we set up shop not far from here. I can see it from this window at the corner of Beverlyβ¦Wilshβ Beverly Excuse me, Wilshire Boulevard and Lyndon Boulevard I was there doing fine.
We had a couple of subtenants. He had the lease on it. Things were not going really exactly the way we thought with the skin and face center, but you know, we were doing okay I was getting building my practice so to speak and people were coming β
Catherine Maley, MBA: Let me interrupt you for a second Were you a partnership or were you a 50 50 partnership? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Were you just renting? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We were discussing all that but we ended up just Him renting and I rented from him and we were loosely associated and so it didn't really become that center that we thought So, I was free. I didn't have any real ties except for a sublease which I was a handshake It was wonderful for me because I was very, very, flexible and mobile And I got a phone call from Dr.
Frankel, who is now my business partner of I would say 12 years now, a business partner of mine. Maybe less time than that. I was a tenant for some time and then became business partner as we bought into the surgery center.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And explain who Dr. Frankel is. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: So, Dr. Frankel is one of Dr. Kamer's old fellows.
He has been at the Lasky Clinic now for if I've been here 15, it would be 25 years. He and Dr. Stephens are the two main surgeons in the building, and I'll explain real briefly what the building is before getting back into that story. Don't let me get off track on that story. Okay. So, Dr. Kamer built this building in the 70s.
It was already built, but he turned it in the 70s, late 70s, into a surgery center. It was probably, by report, one of the first freestanding surgical centers in Beverly Hills. And it's downstairs from where my office is now. And he saw patients upstairs, and he had a lot of space. It's a 10, 000 square foot building.
It has a lot of little nooks and crannies in which things can be done, both clinical and non-clinical. And he had his fellow doing certain things in certain areas, and he had his post op patients go into certain rooms downstairs. Which were not really efficiently used, but they were very posh, and it was just wonderful, wonderful for his celebrity clientele.
And so, the building gained a lot of clout with his clout, with his popularity and his fame. He treated a lot of celebrities, he did amazing work, and he was a nice person to all of them. And so, they really admired him, and the community really admired him. And he's still around, and we see him every once in a while.
And he trained a lot of people in the area. Many of the Surgeons, plastic surgeons in this area, the facial plastics are, are pretty much, again, a stone's throw away from us or what they call disciples of Cameron, but they were trained by him. And so, we had, we had a tremendous respect for all of them, obviously.
And so, down the line, when he was retiring, He left part of his space open and Frankel and Dr. Andrew Frankel and Dr. Leslie Stevens, who is a general plastic surgeon that does all body work, including face work, were here as his tenants. Because towards the ends of his practice, he had them here as tenants, and they were using the operating room too, and there were at times other tenants as well.
So, when he left, there was some space open in the building, and Dr. Frankel and Dr. Stevens were here on their own, and they had some other tenants for some time upstairs here. And they had a space downstairs, which was a separate little nook that was on the west side of the building, opposite of where I'm sitting now, and had a beautiful window shape, kind of round shape window like this, and an entrance on its own.
And they were trying to figure out what to do with it. Previously used to be the fellows, what they call the fellows office, or what was the post op room where he would remove the bandages day one, and then go back into surgery. And so, what they called me about was to see if I wanted to. move in and use that space.
They were trying to find a tenant for that space. But when I got the call from Dr. Frankel, I said, Oh no, I wonder what I did wrong. I hope I didn't say something to a patient that got misinterpreted. And then they went back and said to Dr. Frankel that I saw a patient of his and didn't say nice. I said, Oh my God, I wonder what happened.
So, answer the phone hesitantly. But I said, hi, how you doing? What's going on? And he said, I need to talk to you, but I want you to come over here, here and have lunch. We need you to see something here. And I was like, wow, here I go again. I'm going to the last week clinic. Like, I wonder what's going to happen here.
So, I sat down with them. We had no lunch, but we had a conversation about that space downstairs. Shortly after I moved in, I didn't have much. I was running a tight, tight practice. It was me and one employee. We were sharing one of the other employees with Dr. Murabi at the other office. And so, I had just one person and me and a bunch of boxes full of Restylane, Botox, Juvederm, and some charts.
And so, it was really simple for me. I packed it all up in the back of my BMW and drove over. It was like that. It was that kind of, that kind of thing. And we started practice here in, it was 2000. nine, three years into my practice, and it's, you know, been steady growth, steady growth since then, since then, I bought into the surgery center, and as a loosely connected network of practices, we're not partners in our practices.
None of us work for each other and none of us have any financial tie in our main practices together But we own the surgery center together the three of us We've had other tenants here that have had part ownership in the surgery center before But at this time, it's just the three of us and we're hoping that our other tenants would all introduce in a minute will at some point be able to buy into the surgery center too as they get busier because they are paying into it all the time anyway.
So, it's, it's one thing that we think is, is best to have as many benefactors as beneficiaries in the, in the, in that practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: As long as you can all get along. Absolutely. But let me ask regarding staff, do you share staff? Like, are there more than one receptionist or does everybody have their own receptionist and their own coordinator? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
And how is that, how does that work? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We each have our own receptionist, our own medical assistants, and our own coordinators. I have a few more employees because I have a little bit more space than they do. So, I, I was able to kind of sprawl out a bit more. I have two so called physician extenders, or a nurse injector, an RN, and a nurse practitioner who does lasers and injections as well.
And I have a practice manager who helps me to oversee all, all the aspects, all the different parts of the practice, including so we have You know, as, as the revenue centers or the revenue generators, we have the nurse practitioner and the, and the RN and myself that are creating revenue. And so, it kind of got a little bit harder to manage for me and, and just the coordinator.
And so, we have a practice manager too. The other two have a few employees. They have a coordinator and a front desk person, and sometimes an MA. And that's, and that's all they function with. And, and we don't really mix together except in the lunchroom and in the hallways. and on our Christmas parties and so on.
The surgery center has a receptionist. And that receptionist works downstairs because the foyer or the entrance of the building, it's almost like a shared communal living space, almost. So, when people walk in, sometimes it's a little confusing. Are they here to go to the surgery center, which is downstairs?
Or are they here to see one of us? We're all upstairs. Or are they here to see the tenant of the corner office where I used to be, which you have to go outside to get to. So, it gets, it gets a little confusing. So, we always have. Someone down there, but that person is technically a, an employee of the surgery center because they are the surgical, surgical schedule coordinator for the surgery center.
So, they're the ones that receive all the requests for surgical schedules from us and from a handful of outside doctors. They use our surgery center. It's about five of them at the present moment and they coordinate our schedules for us. So, we're all very separate and all of our finances are separate We don't really mix that way and we don't really balance patients around unless there's a need to if someone needs a second opinion or if they want a breast augmentation and I think Dr.
Stevens is the right guy then they get sent there. So, we're really very separate but we own the surgery center together and operate the surgery center together and For some time, we had some good revenues because we had some insurance paybacks that were not bad for some period of time when we were doing the rhinoplasty, for example, that had septum deviations and so on, but we are now a break-even entity and we are just basically always just making, making just on our, on our black line.
We're never in the red. We just kind of bounced around between red and black and are usually just on our black line, which is kind of nice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But when you say that the convenience of it is priceless. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Priceless, priceless, we do have a handful of outside doctors and we try to prioritize their schedules because we know they're coming from outside and they have to drive here.
Sometimes they walk here which is really nice, because we're not really that far from each other. But if they're coming here from outside and we know they have to get back to their practice and to their normal, ordinary, usual state of business, we prioritize their schedules. But for the most part, if I want to schedule cases on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, I can.
If I have a VIP that wants to come on Saturday, I just have to ask and someone will volunteer and come in and they'll get paid extra and we'll do it. And so, that's, that's kind of how it works for us and it's really, it's very priceless to have that. It's also, from my perspective, from a safety perspective, Really important to me knowing that I can run downstairs, check the facial nerves, check for hematoma, make sure the skin in the tip of the nose is doing okay, and all that before they go, it is really wonderful.
It's, it's So, much better than getting a phone call from a nurse and then getting on FaceTime and trying to figure out what's going on with the patient before they're discharged. Or before, for example, one of our aftercare facilities picks them up if their blood pressure is going up and down. I can be here and I can help coordinate everything and free.
And that's a, that's a really nice safety perspective for us. And then so down the line, how many years later can't even or even I've lost track of it, but down the years are flying by the years are flying by things are going great business is building and I got another call from Dr. Frankel and I see him down up and down the hallway every day.
We see each other all the time. We actually. because the surgery center is an open concept, kind of like our offices are here. I can actually go into his room and say, good morning. How's your case going today? Great. I'm going to be next door. Great. And then we bounce things around ideas around, even sometimes while we're in surgery, he says, Hey, Bruce, come here and take my friends.
Call me Bruce. And that's kind of our, our colloquial language here. He says, Hey, Bruce, come take a look at this. What would you do with this thing? And sometimes I'll call him, same thing. And we were able to have this camaraderie and we've elevated our, our practices together that way. I hope he sees it the same way.
He's ten years ahead of me in practice and ten years older than me. But, and we real, we really do all benefit from this and some of our newer tenants and some of the other outside clients of our surgery center really benefit from that too. And so, down the line, you know, as things are going so great, he calls me and he says, hey I need to talk to you about something.
Dr. Kamer wanted to sell the building. And because I have first right of refusal, he told me to make him an offer. And I said, awesome. Did you? And he says, yes. And he said, but I, but I think I want you to join me. And I said, well, what about Dr. Stevens? He's been here for so much longer. He said, I asked him and he didn't want to do it.
We don't know why, but you know, maybe he already, maybe he couldn't at the time, or maybe he already was starting to see, cause he's 10 years ahead of Dr. Frankel. He's starting to maybe see where he may be kind of phasing out too. And he didn't want to get strapped into something that could be a longer-term project.
And so, the two of us bought the building together. I won't disclose the percentages, but his is a lot more than mine, but that's the way it works because it was his, his baby and he's been here for so much longer. But for me, it was a no brainer. And I said, you know, if you can own this thing, you will have, it was definitely a no brainer.
You will have the stability knowing that someone else isn't going to come take over and kick me out and change everything that I love about where I practice. And the people with whom I practice, the staff in the surgery center, the anesthesiologist that service our surgery center, all this.
everything. It's a really nice place to come to work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a cash revenue generating asset that you'll want forever. I'm hoping you bought it somewhere around 2008 when all hell broke out with real estate and it was good price? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Compared to now, it was still a good price.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, it, it must have appreciated dramatically since then. Right? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We believe it has we try to maintain our building impeccably, not only because we're here and we practice in it, but because we want to make sure that it maintains that value and continues to appreciate and value.
It's really. it's really a landmark of the area. It's, if you see it, it really stands out. And so, we, we feel obligated to it in that sense to keep it up and maintain its value. And you know, you know, naturally when you're a business owner, when you're a, when you're a, a Real estate owner you're always thinking about your rent rolls too because that's how the banks and the outside world are going to value that That asset as a as a practice or as a business of its own it's not necessarily land value plus improvements like it is for a home for example, but you know as our rent roll continues to increase because we're increasing our own rents and we have more tenants that we add and so on.
It, it does help to kind of boost the value of the building as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: is the point when that other doctor's ready to retire, will he then sell his part of the building to somebody else? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: And then who wants to invest? Well, we haven't had so much discussion about that yet, but I would think that at that time, it would be much of it to my discretion at that time, but probably would be either me buying him out or both of us selling completely and just everybody going.
If he retires and I may just go somewhere else. And cash out on my part of it it's not something that's been really fully hashed out But you know in my mind I always thought, βI'll buy him out and I'll sell Parts of it to whoever wants to be here and can hang in for the long termβ; because I'd love to see this Continue to be what it is
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the good news is you have options and that's what everyone wants. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
So, you're in very good shape. Now, rumor has it, you bought something else. Can you, can you talk about that? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Yes. Well, it hasn't really gone through fully yet. So, it's a bit premature, but I can talk about it because we, we, I have my accounts open. I have my malpractice. Hopefully in place by the next few days and so on, but, you know, I, I've expanded as much as I can here and I've always wanted to continue to expand and have different sources of revenue.
And you know, we always thought about other, other pieces of real estate and so on. And my wife and I my wife, my lovely wife, Adrian, you deem, who is a. Internist and obesity specialist who also is a subtenant of our space here. Oh, She and I have had many discussions about okay. Well, what can we do?
you know, we have to have something that's going to have us have given us some form of Inflow of cash when we're not actually working or you know That doesn't necessarily have to do with us with our own sweat and tears so to speak and so you know that it's
It's a tough thing to manage. I know the medical business and I know the medispa business as I have been a medical director for a medispa before. And so, I was tipped in by the attorney who actually does our contracts as a medical director for the other medispa. To a business that she works with and said is someone I know and she wants to retire and by the time you Are able to publish this this will have gone through but so many spa and you are Belinda wonderful nurse practitioner She's a doctorate and nurse practitioner.
She is a Council member of your Belinda. She was a previous mayor of your Belinda. She is just a Both beautiful on the outside and inside person who has tremendous skills and she's a teacher. So, she's one of those people that you just want to be associated with. Thankfully, she thinks the same about me.
So, when we discussed. potentially me buying her out so that she can move on with her plans of retirement and having her exit plans in place. She plans to be out of the business in about a year and is giving us that time. She could have retired tomorrow, tomorrow if she wanted to and, and probably did want to, but she's giving us that time because not only does she want to see that the practice, the business goes to.
Through the transition properly, but she also wants to make sure that her employees have The jobs that they have now and continue to enjoy the benefits that they have now and continue to work the way that they are And I promised her that as well and so we plan to be closing within the next five days So, we have this, this thing on the, it's, it's a tiny little place compared to Lasky Clinic, but it is, I believe, in that area, a powerhouse.
There are very few many spa types of practices, not even any plastic surgeons over there. So, I think there's one or two and they don't necessarily have the best. Will of the community necessarily. And so, a lot of people are going outside of the area for their plastic surgery needs. So, for me, it would be not only a revenue center, but also a referral center for me.
My plans are to be there once a week for the beginning, because That's very lofty plan, but maybe once every other week to begin. It's hard to get out of here, but my plans are to be there at least somewhat for consultation purposes So, that I can make it easy for the community. They can gain my trust and they get to know me a little bit and they don't have to drive out here to do it and then from there, hopefully we'll be able to just have a, an easy, easy system by which when the injectors are working and they see something that they know they can't handle with injections that they know is just not going in the right direction that they can, they can speak to and be sort of like mini coordinators or pre coordinators for a surgical treatment that patients can come here for.
That's our goal.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, to get things moving, though, if that NP is that well known in that community, you can live off of her transference of credibility. If everyone loves her, all she has to say is you know, Dr. Torkian's the guy to talk to, and hopefully she's a good referral source for you to get rolling. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: She's already been referring patients. Nice. And what I can see is a few have rolled in but what I can see is that she is Tremendously influential in the community and I knew that going into this It it's part of the goodwill of that business that practice And part of frankly what I'm paying her for and I'm so thankful for her being such an easygoing and just gem of a person she's just made this so easy.
I know she's itching to get out, but that's not a reason to make it easy She's selling her baby.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, and you know quite frankly if she happens to need a little facial refresher or maybe a bluff or a little mini lift and you could do that for her. She'd be a walking talking testimonial for you big time that year. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: We haven't crossed that bridge yet but does she need anything? Is she looking good? I think she's really pretty. But I, but I know she can point out a couple of things that she wants corrected. I know that's kind of the way it always goes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just want coordinators who have had a facelift done by their surgeon and they've tripled their conversion rates. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
It's just a no brainer because now they're not selling anybody, anything. They're not pushing. They're just telling their story about what they went through and how great they feel. Just so easy. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: You know, the coordinators here. So, I have, I have my coordinator, Martha. We're the user met before. Yes, she's lovely, but before and we have our practice manager Magda and we have our main receptionist, but she's, that's, that's a, not a nice term for her because she's so much more than that.
So, we called her the front desk manager, but she didn't really love that either because she said, you're trying to make me feel better about this. And I said, no, you're just so good at this. She just really handles that front desk amazingly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Can she be the client concierge or something? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: She can be the client concierge.
I like that term. But I know what she's going to say. She's just going to laugh at me again. Because that's the relationship we have. But all three have had upper blood surplacities with me. And of course, they get injections and stuff too. They've all had upper blepharoplasty with me. And so, that, that helps, that really sells, but they're not old enough yet to need the facelift.
We're getting there, but quite frankly, you know, in our, our industry, and you probably have experienced this seeing other practices that you work with, we have access to a lot of stuff and the non-surgical stuff. As limited as it is, it's good. A lot of the non-certical stuff is very good, but they're limited, but together they add into, add up to something sometimes really good.
So, Martha and Olivia who have both had, you know, when I was playing around with InstaLive threads, and I don't love to do that anymore, I did one yesterday, but kind of reluctant, it was just the right person for the right reasons at the right time. for her. But in general, I don't really love the threads anymore.
I think that you can get a much better result from a surgical lift and it's way more, way more worth the downtime and the money that you spend, but we've done those on them. They've had all therapy. They've had the microneedle needle radiofrequency treatments. We now have virtue RF, which I'm a PR ambassador for.
They they've had reporters come in and we do, we do their PR with them. And I'm very thankful to have that as well, if they're listening. It's Virtue RF by Cartessa. We've done these things on them. And the combination has made Martha look now younger than ten years ago when I started to do this stuff on her.
Like, we did theotherapy treatment on her the first time ten years ago. And her jawline is better now with this combination of things that we've done for her. than it was back then. So, she's, sheβs, my age. We just both turned 50. She looks phenomenal. She looks phenomenal. And, and I can't even imagine, you know, cutting on that face.
Not yet. Right. Same with Olivia. She had a lot going on here. She had, we were on the, on the Kybella trial, and she was It's one of their first volunteers volunteer patients. And you know, there was all these, all these other things that we've just, every time we get something, we play around with it with them.
And so, for now they don't need anything, but we need to get into that. We need to find someone, maybe I should do my mom's lift and just have her sit here. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: At least get her in a video, you know, a video talking about her journey, how much, how much better she feels now. Just if she can't be there in person, at least video is your next best bet. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Right. Right. Right. So, so regarding business, last question what's been the biggest challenge? Cause now, you know, business almost as well as the surgery, cause you you've been in a few scenarios. What's the biggest challenge in today's world of running the practice? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: I think it's, It's always the same. I think it's staff management, communication with the staff.
When, when you as the surgeon are, are the COO, CFO, and CEO, as we mostly all start out, and for the most part, most businesses like ours, practices like ours, stay that way. Most people don't hire CFOs And I don't expect that I will either, as much as we may be expanding and growing. But when you're all of those things, and you're the primary revenue, revenue generator, means you have your hands in some kind of a patient treatment most of the time.
And so, having the time to touch base again with the staff, to make sure everybody's on this, on the same page, moving in the same direction, saying the same things to patients. And, and maintaining the same decorum with the, with the patients and with the way that we present ourselves and the practice and so on.
It's just so difficult. So, you know, I, I always tell, I told Magda, if I can listen to every phone call, I would, but I can't. So, when I call you guys from the office, And you don't know that it's me calling, and I hear you answer in a certain way, then I'm going to call you out on it, because that's the only time it happens.
That's the only time I hear it. And I have to presume that that's happening throughout the day. So, every once in a while, on my way in, I'll pick up my cell phone from the car and I'll just call. And if it's 8. 30 and the phones are still on, on voicemail, I go berserk. I tell, we open at 8. 30. Why are the phones still on voicemail?
Or if they answer the phone and they say thanks for calling Dr. Torkian's office, how can I help you? And they don't say their name, I go berserk. I say, wait, we have this conversation ten times. A week when I call into the office and still it's happening. And so, I think staff management is the hardest thing because you just can't be everywhere all the time and Iβm really thankful for Magda because she's like my extension to me I think if there's anybody that I could give a C title two with three letters and a c in front of it the chief something it would be Magda She could just be the chief and the reason we hired her was for that because I felt I need the help Martha needs the help we need we need Someone to help us steer the yacht.
Yeah, she's, she's wonderful. And so, I think that that's been the hardest thing is just, is that the other thing that's been hard in my perspective, when we. When I started out in two, it was around 2008, actually, 2006, I finished my fellowship. And, you know, I came out and, and one of my, my esteemed and, and wonderful professors at UC Irvine, who was, who is still a mentor, although he doesn't see himself that way with me because we're friends.
He says, You are the LeBron James of rhinoplasty. So, that was, that was back when LeBron James was a rookie, you're going to be this, you're going to, you're that person. And I said, wow, this is amazing. And at that time, when I came out, I started to do mostly noses. And it built up because it was easy to market the noses, at that time we didn't have social media.
Facebook was just kind of beginning and it wasn't really that visual. And so, we had, it was kind of like a Twitter'esque kind of a situation with Facebook. So, we had basically just the web. And we had print ads still and I didn't take out many print ads because they were very hard. They were hit or miss And so, I made my own website.
This was how easy it was back then You could get a website generator called front page by Microsoft And I sat next to my friend at a surgery center God rest his soul. Dr. Peyman Simone, who I think you may have known love him and he's since passed away, unfortunately for covet during covet I don't know what the circumstances were but he and I sat next to each other and I shared my DVD ROM of front page with him and I said, βCheck it out! I'm making my website. You want to do it too?β; and so, he puts it in his Laptop and we sat next to each other and we basically like passed ideas around on how to like make our websites did the SEO ourselves.
It was that easy, got a Google Analytics and ad account and started to do pay per click. And my other colleagues, Babak Azizadeh and these, these people that were in practice before us say, How did you guys, how did you get your name up here so quickly? I said, I don't know. I just did it. And we put it up and it's like you put a bunch of meta tags in there and it's like having a big billboard on your website and it worked.
And, and that was how I kind of got my boost and the rhinoplasty thing just happened and then revision rhinoplasty happened and I got better at them and word got around in the community. But what became really challenging was when social media then came in and I started to do social media early. I put a couple of videos on Facebook.
I did a couple of videos on YouTube, but I wasn't great at it. I was never really good at being a showy, what I thought was a showy person. I, I can't. boast about myself ever. I'm just not programmed that way. Maybe I wasn't brought up that way. I don't know. I feel like my grandmother used to show off about me a lot, but still my wife thinks she can get her on Instagram.
Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a grandma's place anyway. Right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, someone's got to do it. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Someone's got to, someone's got to do, someone's got to be on face Facebook and Instagram. And so, it was hard for me to push that too much. You know, I, I couldn't be the person to come on Facebook and say the best plastic surgeon in town, the best rhinoplasty in town, it wasn't me.
And so, I didn't do a ton of it, but I put stuff out and it worked, but I quickly, very, very quickly got surpassed. As you know, that was like a boom of an, an explosion of growth for a lot of people. And I quickly got surpassed in that avenue. And so, now I see younger colleagues of mine and I look at them, how I know.
Some of my older colleagues back in 2006 through 8 were looking at me like, how did you get your name up here on this search engine so quick? I'm thinking, how did you get all these followers on Instagram so quick, you know? So, that's been a real challenge for me. It's been using that medium as a means of promoting myself.
Thankfully, I still have a lot of community referrals coming in, a lot of patient referrals and community referrals. I have some people that I work with who are estheticians and many spas who refer as well, and they trust me, they know my work and, and, you know, in the end, it's not just the work, it's not just the results and, and how people look after it's They're buying a feeling from you, and if they can come in and, and they can have a conversation with me that's friendly, and somehow builds their happy feelings inside of them up, somehow makes them feel warm about themselves, and they feel like they look good in the mirror, then they're going to send patients back to me.
They're going to send friends back to me. So, it's not about the picture on the, on the Instagram. It's not about how many followers there are in my practice at this time, although we are pushing that avenue a little bit more too, because we know we have to. It's, it's been, the challenge has been that, but the, the bonus to me has been that I always have people come in and they just say, you know, I've heard the nicest things about you as a person.
And then they talk about what they want surgically. And that's, that's really, to me, golden. That just makes me happy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you weren't in Beverly Hills, if you were anywhere else, your social media would be solid. The problem is, is you're surrounded by these heavy hitters. And by the way, those who have 500 plus thousand followers, they're spending hours and hours doing that. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
They also have usually a full media team behind them. They're meeting with them. two or three times a week trying to map out what are we going to do? How are we going to, how are we going to do this using as least of the doctor's time as possible? But there's a whole bunch of strategy and money and effort and time that goes into that. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
So, anyone who makes it look easy, they're spending time or money on it, quite frankly. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: It's, it's difficult. You know, I know my colleagues I know a lot of them, how hard they work on that and how much time they, they put into it. You know, my focus has always been, I'm a very family centric person. You can tell how many times I've mentioned my wife, my grandmother, my parents, whatever.
Yeah. And some kids in there too. My, my goal has always been. I, I work, I do what I do because I really love it, and I love helping people in the way that I do. And I really love the surgery of it too, and the results and the instant gratification that we all get. But I always want to be home for din I want to be home for dinner.
This is the reason that I'm not doing head and neck reconstructions. We all get into this wanting to do that, you know, that's part of that, that story that we all have, but doing head and neck reconstructions would mean you're the second shift and you're not going to be home for dinner because someone else is sick.
Spent all day taking the cancer out, you know, so you're filling in a hole on someone's face. You're going to be second shift and No dinner tonight for the for you and the kids, but that's my goal and I've and I pride myself in that It's what I want to be known for. I want to be known as That amazing dad that amazing husband and son who's a great surgeon and treats people nicely, you know It's not about having the biggest Instagram and Facebook presence, but I have to tell you in and this is all new topic that we could discuss forever and on different social media platforms, but we're on different podcasts anybody who uses social media, even if you're using it just for advertising is susceptible to The effects of social media that the effects that they have on you as a person There is always the looking at what other people have.
There is always the person who's on a yacht somewhere on vacation when you're not, or, you know, is constantly showing you pictures of where they're traveling to, or what kind of car they're driving or how many followers they have or so on. And it's, and we're all susceptible to that as humans, and it's very hard to separate from that, which is why I strongly believe that children should just not be on social media until they are very old.
We thankfully have been successful in that with our youngest one. Our two others are responsible, but I, I know that they're affected by it. Everybody is. And if you're a parent out there listening and you just one day you're home and your teenagers are down. Yeah, kids can get like down sometimes and they don't want to talk about it, especially when they're teenagers.
But I would guarantee that that in this day and age in our current cultural environment, 90 percent of the time, that's because of some you. Thank you. Thing not positive that happened on social media or something that just got them down that's on social media, and it's to me such a dangerous thing. So, as a business person, we are also susceptible to that.
And one of the best things that someone ever told me as a coach to practice and business was. You need to mind your own business and don't worry about theirs. It's okay to look at it. You consume it a little bit to know what's out there, to know what other people are doing. You may copy it a little bit.
Don't feel bad about copying, looking and seeing what ideas you can get from it. But mind your business. Don't worry about there so much.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I couldn't agree more. I have to ask you out of curiosity because in Beverly Hills, everyone has spent a lot of money on PR. And I don't know if it's, I mean, you got a really good piece on the doctors. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
And so, I just want to ask, cause I still get phone calls shouldn't I hire a PR agency? And frankly, in today's world, I don't think you need one. I, I, I'd rather just, if you want to go that route, then just go ahead and, you know, open up your phone and start doing videos yourself. Cause that would be more authentic. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Just tell me, did the doctors, did that piece help you? a lot, a little. It was just a nice ego boost. Like, what do you think about PR nowadays? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: It was all three of those things. Okay. There's a lot of different kinds of PR. And, and we got a little bit of all, I've worked with two different PR firms in the past.
One early, early in my practice. Got me on a couple of and we don't even have Good clips of them because they happened at a time where it was harder to get the digital clips They were in like 2008 literally so getting digital clips were a little bit more difficult But I did the under eye filler injection on Fox 11 As my first like big one There was a couple others where we talked about medical tourism with some other news outlets and so on and then you get quoted in magazines as Having been asked a certain question and so on and they help they add up They definitely can get you some cloud back then.
I think it was way more important than now I think now there's so much video content out there that if you're just doing your own video content and don't have a reporter involved It's more authentic. It's more meaningful more valuable if you can get the word out on your YouTube, which I, again, I'm not good at, but one of my good friends in San Diego is excellent at it.
And it's, it's working out really well for him because he has the time to put into it. He can put in that time and make these videos and they make them look really good because he's got a production team behind him, the right thumbnail on there and it's just golden. But the doctors, there were three visits there.
I had three different shows with them. One was. Was not with a PR agent. They called me one was with a PR agent and one was us calling them. So, we had, we did it all three ways and all three were great for a short period of time. Then they were just okay. Then they were ego boosters. And still to this day, they're, they're all three of those things because they just give you a little bit more clout having them posted on the website or every once in a while reviving one and of course now my hairline looks different, not very different because of the drops I'm using, of course, but, but, you know, like you look different, but now all of a sudden there's like this video of me from six years ago, seven years ago, doing the facelift for the weight loss patient on, on the doctor's show.
So, so the first one. And they called me and they had a trauma patient, they had a trauma person, and I don't know how they got to me, but somehow, they had called other people and they said, well, we don't want to handle this, maybe, maybe Torkian can handle it. And so, it was a patient who had been run over by a car.
And she had tremendous facial trauma, and she still, she was reconstructed beautifully and wonderfully in the desert area near Palm Desert. And she just needed some cleaning up of some of the reconstructions, and she couldn't breathe. So, she needed a little nasal, nasal overhaul, a complete nasal overhaul.
That was one. The second was... My PR group at that time, I was working with Arlene Howard. I think she's still in practice now, but slowly starting to phase out. Wonderful, big name in the industry. She was charging a lot, but it was at that time we considered it definitely worthwhile because it just kept on building the clout.
It was nice to have that. It's hard to be available for them enough though. That's the hard thing about working with PR people. If any of the listeners out there are thinking about it. Is that they want you sometimes to just drop everything and answer a phone call so that they can tell you about a reporter who wants to talk to you tomorrow while you're supposed to be in surgery.
And it's, it's hard. You know, you're doing all this so you can be in surgery, but then if you are, then you can't really take the time to do what they want you to do. For me, that became the hard thing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say it's great if you can get it, but I, I wouldn't put a bunch of trouble in today's world. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Although it does look good on the website, as long as you don't look aged too much. It does give you a lot of credibility. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: It's totally true. I really, I really loved doing it, especially with the doctor's show. I love their staff. I love Dr. Orden. I even got to know some of the producers and occasionally would see them even outside of, outside of there and, and just, you know, just hang with them because they were just nice people and it was nice to know them.
So, the third one, we actually got on ourselves. I had seen a patient who really blew my mind with what she had come in with, but I saw her like five years prior to her real surgical treatment. And when I saw her, she was telling me that her nose is swelling and she's pregnant. And I was like, well, I can't do anything about this now you're pregnant.
Like there's doesn't make sense, but yeah, nose is swell when you're pregnant. And she says, no, it's really swelling a lot. And I reassured her. I said, it's not that bad. It's just swelling. It just happens. It's hormonal. And like five years later, she came in with a five-year-old. And sat at my office and said, so I have this thing on my nose.
And I said, how'd you acquire that? And I didn't even put two and two together. I don't remember it was her. The name sounded familiar, but I didn't remember. But she had this thing that looked like it was traumatically cut straight down the middle of the tip of her nose. And it turned out she had had what I thought, I suspected and confirmed later after surgery was a granuloma, a subcutaneous granuloma of pregnancy in her, the tip of her nose.
They normally happen inside the nose on the mucous membrane that cause bleeding, but this one is, it's kind of like a vascular tumor, but it happens to be so hormone responsive that it only grows during pregnancy while that hormonal environment is, is surging. And so, we confirmed it with a biopsy during her surgery, but I, I operated on her to correct this issue.
It was a rhinoplasty plus reconstruction of the tip skin. And I, and I thought, if I'm going to do this, I want to do it pro bono. I don't want to charge her because I really like connect with this situation Now that I know who this is and how we this conversation started five years ago And I said what if I can get you on a tv show?
Then we can do it for free. Would that be cool with you? She said anything you want doc So; I called the doctor's show and I said this is the deal. We have this patient I think it's a wonderful thing for people to learn about it's probably not going to happen to anybody out there because it's, it's only been reported like once or twice in the literature, but this is something that we could put out there and teach people about what kind of things can happen to noses during pregnancy.
And so, they took it and we did that one. That was, that was, I think, the most gratifying one to me. And I really loved working with them. It was fun to be, you can tell I like to talk, so it was kind of fun to be there. Hanging out in that environment.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, that's good. So, just to wrap it up, what would be any advice you have for any up-and-coming surgeon? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
What, what advice would you give them to enter this marketplace or to survive in this marketplace? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Oh, it's so tough. I feel like I still need the advice myself. Because no matter how long you've been in practice and how far you get, you're always going to still feel like you're not where you want to be.
And you always have some growth to do. I think what resonates most with me, having your basic human values in place in your practice are always, should always be your priority. You should always be the kindest that you can be to people, and that also, of interest, will help you, as a side note, to help, kind of filter out some of the undesirables that come into your practice.
Sometimes, as a nicer person, you want to help everybody, and you end up getting some of that. You get wrapped into some of the narcissism that exists within the plastic surgery community, the patients. Sometimes, because... They're interested in their appearance. Some are interested way too much. And they're really wrapped up in it.
And they get everyone in the office wrapped up in it. And we are like that, because we're so nice to them. But still, a priority should be just treating people like people. That's the most important thing. And then, in your own life, treat yourself as a person too. You don't have to be a work horse.
You are the work horse of your practice. But you don't have to be Thank you. working that way. You should have a life outside your practice. You should have a gratifying, satisfying home life. And that, that is what will lead you. That's the drive for you to do better and better all the time. That's the whole point of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's such great advice and I would say, also make sure your staff and any of your other partners, they have the same kind of values you do because it's tough to be in a practice where you do have home life balance and the guy next to you is just the lion in the jungle who's trying to crush it. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
It doesn't make for a, you know, a positive environment. So, last question before we wrap it up. Tell us something that we don't know about you. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Wow. There's probably so much, but a lot of people probably know this already. I am a do it yourself er.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I thought so with the radio. Yeah. You turned in into the cell phone. How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: I think to some extent, probably all surgeons are right. We are manual. We like to do things. We like to see the results of the things that we do. So, I like to copycat stuff. I paint. But when I paint, I'm usually very heavily inspired by something else. So, I begin as a copy and I change it to me to make what I want it to look like.
So, I cook and I do the same thing. I will go to a restaurant; I'll taste something and my wife can see it in my eyes. She says, Oh God, he's thinking again. And then I go home and then the next day I've made that meal and I try to copy and emulate this really difficult, all the flavors that come out of it.
How close do you get? Sometimes very, very close. Oh, good for you. One of my favorite things to make is the artichoke, the artichoke from the Hillstone group. I don't know if you have a Hillstone where you are in Northern California. It used to be called Houston's. They're all over. Their first one was in Nashville.
But Houston's, which Hillstone group, they make the best artichoke and I've got that down. It's. You can find it probably in my TikTok account because I made a video of it. My daughter edited an amazing video, and I like to bake sourdough bread. It's a hobby of mine, so everybody comes over, they always want the bread.
Now we're experimenting with pizza as well, but it's, it's kind of an interesting thing. I, I just like to copy and emulate everything that I love. That's around me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, well, you have some skills to fall back on if surgery doesn't work out for you, right? How does, or did this impact or relate to your decision on buying your mentorβs building?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Yeah, everybody, everybody who comes over our house says, man, you should have a bakery.
I said, no, no, no. Love that. I don't want any part of that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dr. Torkian, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you, I do know your website is drtorkian.com. Is there any other way you would want them to get ahold of you in case they've got some questions for you?
Behrooz A. Torkian, MD: Right. Our email on the website actually gets copied to my direct email.
It is hello@drtorkian.com. That gets directed to me, and if anybody has any questions. wants to bring up any points or even maybe use our surgery center. We'd love that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, good plug. Yeah. I mean, it's really in a killer place. Everyone who lives in around that area, like I'm in Northern California, but even I've heard of the Lasky clinic in Southern California.
It's a pretty big deal down there.
And I wanted to add one more thing. Another little plug. If you're really interested in the marketing and the business side of plastic surgery, I did put together this incredible learning center full of training vaults.
If you can't get enough of me, there's a plenty of me in there for you. And it's called CosmeticPracticeVault.Com. You can also get it on my website at CatherineMaley.Com. But it just gives you a lot of insights into how the heck you do this in today's world.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on βBuying Your Mentorβs Buildingβ.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Torkian you can reach out to his website at, DrTorkian.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Torkian for sharing his experiences on the topic of, βbuying your mentorβs buildingβ.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βBuying Your Mentorβs Building β with Behrooz A. Torkian, MDβ.
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#drtorkian #behroozatorkianmd #behrooztorkianmd #beverlyhillsplasticsurgeon #beverlyhillscosmeticsurgeon #surgerybuilding #plasticsurgerybuilding #cosmeticsurgerybuilding #surgicalsuite
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and trends affecting your growth.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Trends Affecting Your Growth".
How you attract new cosmetic patients to your practice is quickly changing.
There have been more technological advancements this past year than in many years before.
So here are major shifts happening that are or will affect you big time in the pursuit of attracting new cosmetic patients
The goal is to create a system where you pay to attract a new patient but then you 10X their value because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, approve their photos and share you on social media with their followers.
Thatβs how you build a cosmetic practice patient flywheel that keeps turning on its own.
So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues.
If this resonates with you, visit www.KiSS Loyalty.com to find out if youβre a good fit.
Labor Day is a way to remember the men and women that fought for the rights of workers in the labor movement of the late 19th century. Because of that work we get days off like this to celebrate.
"An annual celebration of the social and economic achievements of American workers."
Itβs to honor workers. That includes everyone who works for you to support your vision, represent you professionally, and get more results than you can on your own.
You have until Saturday midnight to take advantage of a very special offer I have never offered before.
Itβs your opportunity to get this part of your practice humming along like a well-oiled machine so you are booked out and happy.
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Trends Affecting your Growth Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice and a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA.
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and trends affecting your growth.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
How you attract new cosmetic patients to your practice is quickly changing.
There have been more technological advancements this past year than in many years before.
So here are major shifts happening that are or will affect you big time in the pursuit of attracting new cosmetic patients
The first one is Privacy concerns. They are killing your plans for attracting new patients to your practice.
So much is happening behind the scenes with apple, google and FB trying to dominate consumer data capture, so they are no longer sharing data with advertisers like before.
And google is eliminating 3rd party cookies that allowed you to collect consumer data and Apple makes consumers proactively give permission for 3rd parties to collect and use their consumer data on their iPhones.
And now YouTube is discontinuing content targeting options like keywords, topics and similar audiences in their paid advertising.
Frankly, google wants to set up your ad bid strategy and select your audience for you using artificial intelligence (AI) but this makes it very difficult for you to attract new PREFERRED patients when you can no longer target specifically to certain audiences. And that means Ad results will become incomplete and inaccurate because you now have only 10% of the data that used to be 100% available to you. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
So that will force you to increase your advertising budget substantially, as in 30-80% and HOPE the broader, less targeted audience is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
Itβs very similar to old-school mass advertising like TV. You would spend a fortune to talk to the masses, rather than a targeted audience most likely to want your services.
Thatβs why so many of you complain to me your paid google ads are a waste of money. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
Not only do your ad costs increase dramatically, so do poor quality leads. Since your ads are not as targeted to your preferred patients, you get a mixed bag of the public contacting you.
Now your staff wastes a lot of time triaging these leads to determine who is really serious and who is flaky.
So, you need well-trained staff and processes to qualify leads.
BTW, if you arenβt already, I highly recommend you charge a consult fee so at least, your time is better protected from wasted consults who have no intention of moving forward.
Online advertising has gotten complicated, technical and a lot more expensive, so suffice it to say, itβs going to get even more expensive to advertise for new cosmetic patients with less than stellar results.
Then thereβs SEO and Open AI. Itβs dramatically changing the way we find information on the Internet. Google switched to an AI-powered Search Experience which is having a big impact on the way search results are being displayed. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
You may have noticed that over the past years, Google has been showing more and more ads at the top of the search engine results page.
That means the organic results keep getting pushed further down below the page, making it harder for you to be found in organic search for patients looking for you.
On top of that, Google is turning into an answer engine in which they are answering consumerΒ questions without consumers having to go to your website.
So, you need really good fresh content that entices prospective patients to click and stay put on your website. This way google sees you as a viable resource and sends you more prospective patients.
On the one hand, content creation has been simplified with Open AI and GTPChat since it can create content for you in seconds. But on the other hand, it can do that for everyone else as well, so now the supply of content is much greater than the demand and thatβs also making it difficult for you to rank in search engines.
One more thing...Google is all about local search and that makes it difficult for you to expand your market base beyond your local community.
Given the above challenges, you almost have to embrace social media as a real marketing channel and not just a passing fad.
Many practices have given up on updating their website again and pouring money into seo and pay per click advertising and are turning to social media (the big one being Instagram) to find new cosmetic patients.
Other practices pay someone to do this for them because they know itβs important but they have no interest in it OR the surgeons are spending a lot of their own time, in between caring for patients, creating and posting content to build up their audience of followers and to create user generated content, because you need to get your followers to interact with your posts.
Personally, I recommend you do a blend of both. Make one in-house person responsible for your social media efforts but have them work with a videographer, as well as you and your team, to create content organically by posting the βDay in the life of a plastic surgeonβ. That way you are the content without too much effort. Youβre just doing your thing and itβs getting captured in photos and videos.
But please keep in mind, you are only renting those followers.
IG and FB own your followers so they are, in essence the landlord.
That means they can raise the rent and/or kick you out at any time, so you lose your data youβve spent years collecting.
Iβm sure youβre aware that social media and plastic surgery donβt get along.Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
You are showing graphic material that can be offensive or hurt the self-esteem of the public so they can close down your account without notice.
They also decide who sees your organic social media content. FB & IG continually strangle your list to force you to βpay to playβ by buying advertising. The latest stats show only 5.2% of your followers actually see your organic content so you have this false sense of security thinking youβre marketing your practice to the masses, when really only a trickle of followers are seeing it.
To counter this, I strongly recommend you own the data!
You can no longer trust that audiences you have built on social media platforms will be available to you. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
The 1st party data is the future, and the money is in your patient list data.itβs become your best targeted list because they already raised their hand indicating they are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
Use compelling landing pages to capture your followersβ name, email and cell so you can stay in touch no matter what happens.
I did want to mention TikTok as well. Itβs growing in popularity and the audience is getting older so itβs worth posting there since itβs not as crowded as Instagram. I just would adjust your settings so no one under 18 can see your content or ads since you do not want to anger the parents in your community by enticing their underaged children and hurt your reputation.
By the way, if you are going to advertise on social media platforms, you need super compelling visual content like videos and attention grabbing headlines, along with a killer reason to contact you so go slow and test first before throwing a bunch of money at it.
And this is interesting. Gamification is gaining in popularity. For our industry itβs loyalty programs where patients gain points for special pricing.
However, you have to keep patients engaged or it fizzles out. And it has to be easy and fun. Thatβs why I offer The KiSS Loyalty Club where we do all the marketing for you to guarantee it stays fresh and active. You can get more details at www.KiSSLoyalty.com.
Another big challenge is cosmetic rejuvenation Technical Advancements. They are coming at patients fast and furiously and thatβs increasing the demand for your services, but also confusing to would-be patients.
For example, just google non-surgical nose job, facelift, fat reduction and millions of search results come up. What that means is plenty of patients still need your surgical expertise; however, way more prospective patients will opt for non-sx procedures first to delay surgery. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
It would behoove you to develop that relationship early so they come to you for non-sx AND then stay for sx procedures.
That way, you donβt lose them to non-surgeons and medspas.
So enjoy the surgical side of your practice while ALSO building up your non-surgical as a healthy stand-alone profit center and hereβs another reason whyβ¦.
Patients enter different doors to cosmetic rejuvenation, so you want to meet them where they are. Some will go straight to SX and then stay for more, while others dabble in non-sx, some for years, before they are ready for your SX option.
And the beauty of our industry is that Cosmetic Consumers Have ENDLESS NEEDS
The non-surgical industry has grown to over $61BB dollars and has a projected annual growth rate of 15.40% from this year to 2030. This is thanks to social trends, social media and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the demand.
And letβs face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves and then we finally have enough and do something about it and then what do we do?
We find the next thing that bothers us about us and focus on that. It never ends and thatβs what keeps all of us in business, which is a good thing. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
As a side note, weβve been talking a lot about private equity on this podcast and it turns out the investors want to buy your non-sx as much as or more than your surgical side since the non-sx is more transferable so thatβs something to consider if youβre looking to exit in the near future.
And, hereβs another interesting statβ¦ Loyal non-SX patients spend 67% more than new patients and that makes sense because
If they know, like and trust you, they are open to your recommendations and will gladly buy more of your services when you become a one-stop shop for them.
So, itβs the Retention of your patients that scales your practice using resources you already have and paid dearly for.
You likely have a database of thousands of patients. Can you imagine what would happen to your bottom line if a majority of them returned for more and referred their friends?
I know for a fact many of them would gladly return and refer if given the opportunity.
Because the short-term, one-and-done mentality no longer works as it did before because you wonβt be able to or want to spend thousands of dollars for a lead that actually turns into a paid procedure.
So, instead, you look inward at the leverage you already have like your patient list that took you years to grow and the relationships you have with patients who would gladly help you grow your practice for free.
But This will take a mindset shift from transactional to relational.
Look at each patient as an unpaid practice revenue-generator who brings you new patients for free.
Once you embrace this βpatients for lifeβ mindset, you will treat your patients differently and they will react in kind by building your practice for you organically by referring their friends, giving you a review thousands of others will read, approve the use of their photos and share you on their social media channels so their followers can get to know you too.
So, given these challenges, how CAN you grow your cosmetic revenues without growing broke?
The answer is to focus on the fundamentals that make all the difference and here they are in this order:
first: Increase referrals and reviews
then Retain more patients
then Add more value to differentiate
provide Ongoing staff training
Increase conversion rate
Increase transaction value
Increase frequency of visits
THEN Increase leads/traffic lastly.
But most surgeons have this backwards.
They focus only on the bottom rung to increase leads, skip the leverage parts so they and their staff work a lot harder than necessary for less results.
The goal is to create a system where you pay to attract a new patient but then you 10X their value because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, approve their photos and share you on social media with their followers. Certainly one of the trends affecting your growth.
Thatβs how you build a cosmetic practice patient flywheel that keeps turning on its own.
So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues.
If this resonates with you, visit www.KiSS Loyalty.com to find out if youβre a good fit.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βTrends Affecting Your Growthβ.
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#growthtrends #practicegrowth #growyourpractice
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and if an architect is optional.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Is Architect Optional? β with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D".
If youβve ever done an office renovation, you know what a big deal it can be....
Mistakes made. Is an Architect Optional?
Surprises happen. Is an Architect Optional?
Delays occur. Is an Architect Optional?
Budget blows up. Is an Architect Optional?
This Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode was with special guests Mohsen & Marzi Ghoreishi, the managing partners of The Kohan Group one of the nationβs top architects, designers and builders of gorgeous cosmetic surgical offices.
If you are thinking about doing a build-out, you do NOT want to miss this.
They talked about how they turn your vision into reality, common mistakes made that cost even more time and money and what could go wrong when you donβt start with an architect.
Very enlightening.
Visit The Kohan Groupβs website P.S. Please do me a favor and leave a review so I can grow the reach of Beauty of the Biz. I would greatly appreciate it.
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
**Is Architect Optional? β with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D** **Catherine Maley, MBA:** Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and if an architect is optional. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's guest is different, but they know a lot about if an architect is optional.
They're not surgeons, but they certainly work with surgeons and know if an architect is optional So, my special guests are Mohsen and Marzi Ghoreishi, the managing partners of The Kohan Group and one of the nation's top architectures, designers and builders of gorgeous cosmetic surgical offices, you really have to check them out. They've been in business for over 20 years and have been helping surgeons learn if an architect is optional, and their work is spectacular.
So, we often share the podium at medical conferences. We like we're on the circuit together. So, that's how I've known them for a long time. And it's such a hot topic, especially now with everything that happened in the hospitals and doctors just want their own space. They want their own autonomy. They don't want to book surgery through a hospital anymore or surgery center.
So, I thought that they would be a valuable resource for you. So, we're going to talk about that today. So, Mohsen and Marzi, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Thank you so much. We appreciate the invite. Thank you very much.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Thank you, Catherine, for the invite. We are so happy to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, would somebody tell me, where did the name Kohan come from? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: I'll take that one. How's that? Kohan is a Persian word, actually. It's a very small word, but it pertains to quite different words in English. Kohan pertains to something that is an old building, an ancient building, an old culture. It could be a way of life from the past. It could be an old building, like I said, but it still is, actually, still is valid, exists, and it's a way of life that people still do.
So, literally, anything that pertains to something that's old and has dignity and everlasting. We consider that to be Kohan, and we figured that would be a great name for architectural firm where when we create something it has everlasting nest to it. It is done with dignity and something in mind that lasts forever for our clients.
And it's a it's a lesson from the past, but still valid today and in the future. So, that's why we selected Kohan.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Terrific. Now, before we get into the, the nitty gritty. What difference does it make to have an okay office versus a gorgeous office? And I will just anecdotally give you, my answer. We are both out of San Francisco. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
I actually left San Francisco. You're still courageous enough to live in the city, but I'm out. I'm in Sausalito, but I used my very first client 23 years ago was a surgeon in the penthouse of the 450 Sutter street medical building. And that was. Prime real estate and he had gutted it out. It was gorgeous. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
And he, when instead of him taking the office with the breathtaking, you know, 360-degree views, he took a different office and it had his coordinator in the. In the cool office with the views and when you walked in, it had such a psychological effect on people. When the patients would walk in, they were just mesmerized with the views there and how gorgeous it was. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
And they knew it wasn't going to be cheap. Like it, like it was just, it was so obvious that he, they're not going to be negotiating with him. This was high end, high class. It was just beautiful. So, I mean, how much of a difference does that make in, in the regular world? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yeah. I will say something amazing.
Please add. Of course, I think this this is similar to if you go to a restaurant and say, what's the difference between a very beautiful restaurant with a great ambiance. Forget the service and the food, just the great ambience versus something that like you go to a Waffle House then of course that's the similar answer to that.
When a client or customer walks into a four-star Michelin restaurant with a great ambience, of course, feels and expects different kind of experience but if you go walk into Waffle House, I say Waffle House because it's everywhere in the country then of course, you expect. Differently, you expect a different experience and also you expect to pay differently.
So, that's pretty much the same similarity of these, right Marzi?
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Yes, absolutely. And also, I would say you know, that's the proven fact that in few first second when the patient enters to the office, they pass the judgment. Then they see this face before even they meet the staff or they meet the doctor.
And in this competitive environment for all this cosmetic profession and business, The doctor really needs that wow factor first before meet with the patient to be able to set the relationship with the patient rights. And I think that's the biggest tool they can use in their advantage to make sure the psychology of the patient, the rights.
Today to be able to start a conversation about how great they are in their work. Right. Just to add a little bit mm-hmm. We talked about the patient. This was patient experience. Mm-hmm. , but imagine if you put yourself in a box. All day, eight, ten hours a day and work inside a box. You, me, Marzi, all of us.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Versus somewhere with a view or somewhere with a great ambience. What is the difference experience we would have as people working at them? And what kind of production we would have if you would have such an environment? Absolutely. So, so it's not just the patient itself, but also it is. Us, the providers who work inside that space, our team, I think the psychology of a great space, it impacts on everyone inside of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it made a big difference with the staff as well, because I was hiring people, and when they walked in, they knew we weren't fooling around, like this was a very high-end practice, and he had high standards of excellence, and it showed, that's the, that's the secret though. You've got to be consistent with this. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
If you're going to have a killer website, and then a killer office, But a crappy receptionist, . You can't, you've got to be consistent, you know? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: That's true. Absolutely. That's true. The Dr. May be really good, like, like I said, the very first six seconds, anybody walk in that waiting room or that environment, they pass a judgment on.
And I don't care how good of a surgeon you are, they're done. I mean, before you even, they even meet you. They, they, they don't, they either like you or dislike you, and then it goes, of course, who's always at the kiosk or that front desk if they get up and put a big smile on their face. Of course, that's.
You know, and that experience continues on and but definitely starts with the physical environment as you walk into any space. It's amazing what a space can do for you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For your psyche. So, let's talk about your services because one thing I didn't understand when I, because we've talked a lot about this on the podcast. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
So, many of the doctors want to build out their own place. And I, I would say like, they would say, I don't even know how to get started, you know, like, Do you start with an architect? Do you start with it? Find a good contractor first, who then will find you an architect. Do you who's going to design the thing? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Like, you know, like what? Aren't you a full, like one stop shop? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yes, actually, everyone asked that question and a lot of people stumble around different areas and then sometimes they take a wrong turn. I think the old school is that you start definitely. Of course, you first have to know you have the money and you need to have a budget, right?
How much are you going to spend? So, who are you going to ask how much you need? I think a lot of people pick up the phone and talk to a contract and I have there is lots of pitfalls with that because the contractor will give you what they think that office should be. They don't really need.
Dissect and dig in to figure out the realistic budget for what kind of vision you have. So, my suggestion would be, if you will, to discuss immediately with an architect. And that's why if you refer to AIA.org, and I recommend every surgeon who's planning to build, go there and study as what an architect does, because most people don't know what an architect does.
If they go there at aia. org and they read, They'll see the architects have something called pre design and program, where during these two phases. An architect can help the client, the person who's building, to come up with a realistic budget understand their vision, and realistically understand how long of a building, how long is this building going to last for them, how many square foot it's going to be, because the budget, construction cost, All of that relates to, and me going to the bank, getting that kind of money relates to this architect trying to figure out the very thing you need to achieve and live with it for the next 20 years.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you're saying start with the architect, because I think a lot of them start with the contractor, quite frankly. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: No, no, no. No, that's two different worlds. And the contractors are needed to build it, for sure. And a good contractor who is experienced with surgical facility needs to build it. But the contractor...
Does not have those type of expertise and services and architect provides in order to realistically understand what the client is after.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: That's true. Also, I think what is important just to answer back to question about the services. So, clients, the doctor goes to the contractor because the first question they have is how much is going to cost.
And that's the determining factor for them to be able to move one step ahead. But I would say before asking that dollar number, I need, I need them to know what scope of work we are entering into that. What is the journey? What are the challenges they may face? And what we are going to provide as an architect, per AIA, as Mohsen said, we are going to walk them through the process of design and construction and occupancy.
Then they know what is the Then they can ask the right question. For example, we provided Programming and design as one scope of work. We provide architectural services. We provide engineering services. Also, we provide the interior design services. We help them also go through the construction. These are the services we provide to be able to answer the question every single doctor has.
During the process of buildup. Yeah, for sure. Contractor is a big, big part of that.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yeah, when you go to contractor and you just pick up the phone and say, how much it costs? Because everybody's asking the cost. The contractor says, oh, it's going to be about Well, these days we've done another cosmetic surgery down the road.
With two ORs. And it costs us 300 per foot. That's it. And the doctor is sitting on this side, the contractor is on that side of the phone, and each one of them have a different vision inside their head what that thing looks like. Or what's inside of that surgery center. Or what kind of certification that surgery center has.
Or how long will this surgery center be going to last for this doctor. I mean, it's up to your imagination. So, it's just a very immature. Response to a very difficult question, which really cannot be answered until it's dig in and dissected and figured out before that realistic budget occurs.
Because it's just not just not the construction cost, the balls and nuts of the building, but also there is so many soft costs. We have, I have a file that I can go through it. And I can add those soft costs. Sometimes those soft costs are quite, quite high and can break the actually bank, actually. And they, contractors won't talk about that because your question is how much per square foot can you build it?
But you didn't ask me. What are the soft costs?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just think it's the, the service you offer that this all-encompassing service, I think it's so brilliant that one person's responsible for all of this, because if you, it's like having software in our industry, like a lot of the doctors have three or four different software applications because they're trying to pull together their lead management process. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
But God, when one thing breaks, nobody can tell, nobody knows who to call, everyone blames everyone else for it. And if you can put it all under one umbrella, I just think that's less of a headache, quite frankly. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Actually, this is what architects do for a living. And it's unfortunate. The doctors don't know about it.
They really don't know anything about it. The first thing that comes to their mind is contract. It's just because of the way the world is today. But I suggest definitely, if you really want to do it right, The first time, pick up the phone and call someone, an architect, that has expertise in surgery centers, or whatever the type of building you are building, and require, and if you read on a.
org, all of that is in there, and require all the services that the architect provides. So, you have that quarterback handling your project throughout.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you really need an, an architect that understands a surgical center, that it needs to be quad A certified. It can't just be any Joe Schmo, Right. You know, somebody who really understands this. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Yeah. I've, I've had surgeons who did a build out and they forgot to add another lobby for the surgical center and they, they had to literally refit the darn thing or they put the HVAC or whatever. They put it on the wrong side of the room and the water flow was somewhere else and it was like a nightmare. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
And if, because nobody knows what they're doing. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: It is so costly if you want to save costs on the stage of design of the process. And we can discuss more in detail on this subject, but these are all the issues that may happen if you want to cut corners and go with the, you know, Neighbor architect or, you know, brother architect or some familiar person that they can do some drawings that you think that you can get it done.
But the fact is no. Unfortunately, there's going to be a lot of issues along the road.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: If the doctor's question and number one priority is the bottom line, dollars, they have to go to an architect. Any other way, they're going to pay later. That's my recommendation. Now, whatever your budget ends up being, yes, you have to pay a fee to the architect.
It's as if, if I want to go to a plastic surgeon, I have to go to a plastic surgeon and pay for it. That's what professionals are for. You have to pay a fee to actually do it right the first time. But if really you are not even looking for patient experience or you're not looking for something really off the top or whatever beautiful, you're looking for something really simple and you want to make it really as affordable as possible.
You have to go to an art. That's my recommendation.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. One of the biggest issues is a surgeon goes through this probably once in their lifetime. And then they, and then they're educated, but they went through the, the ups and downs and the grief of doing it. And now, and now it's just like a one and done kind of thing. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
So, I highly agree getting some expertise involved early, early on. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: And I can't tell you how often I have heard I wish I had done it differently. Next time I'll, I'll call you. And we've had actually referrals from the. Doctors, clients who didn't go with us, they went with a whole different direction, and then they send us a referral telling the referral person, the very person that go with them first.
So, it's amazing, we get those kind of referrals now.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Yeah, that's the interesting point because usually when the doctor wants to establish their practice, if they are young, so I'm sure they have a limited experience about dealing with the different aspects of their business. They are well educated in university and getting degree and a lot of skills to do their surgery.
And they tell everybody, oh, I'm opening a practice and everybody provide the opinion. Okay. No, you don't need architect. Just go to a builder. And then someone from the family member, they're trying to help them to put together the colors. And then maybe someone else getting the plan to the permit. So, it's a lot of pieces that is not in hand of professionals.
And all of these small pieces can go to. A disaster situation, unfortunately, and we've seen that and we've heard that and we hear stories about that every day and we are not happy about things happening to other to the doctors, but unfortunately trying to get help from their relatives and people they know a little bit of this and that is not a good thing at all.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'll tell you what I'm curious about. A doctor will have a vision in his or her head. And they're trying to communicate it to you. How in the world do you get from what's in their head to what happens in real life reality? How do you communicate that? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Ever since we established Cohen, which is 20 years and nine months ago we tried to establish, we tried to have a road map that is quite different than any other firm.
The I have worked before and or it is very hard to know what's in the client's head. Right. I mean, I'm sure if you want to buy a house, you have a vision that I want a house look like this and that, or I want a house from outside and inside, both, doesn't matter, right? And you even see the furniture.
You see, you feel, you can even feel the house if you want to do a house. It's the same with any building. So, we have a process on our on the website. If you go to the process tab and it has four steps and one of the most interesting steps is creating a Pinterest page. Pinterest page. I mean, we don't know a lot of these people and the only window through their mind through their, you know, through their mind is by looking at these pictures.
We asked them to put on Pinterest. What we call is likes and dislikes. And so, they may take a picture they like, but they really don't know why they like. So, we take like 20, 30 pictures of likes and dislikes, and we take about two to three hours just going through each picture, figuring it out. What is it specifically in that picture that triggered the motions in the client's brains?
It's sort of psychology, literally, where you realize, okay, this is what really, why really, he or she likes this picture. Not because of all of the other stuff in the picture, but because of that little one green plant putting over here on the table or something, then we cover that plant and say, how do you feel now?
Ooh, that's different now. Okay, well, no, I really don't like it. And start the conversation begins. So, when you do this with 20, 30 pictures. We go through their head and see the world through their eyes. And that is the time where we know how they see the world and what is it that puts a smile on their face.
And that's, that's a pretty interesting process. That we really take a lot of time to understand our clients before we even draw the first line.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Exactly. And what also we have, we start the process with This step. So, to getting to know that person, but also, we have a lot of different steps during the design to make sure we are in line with the clients every step.
We provide the doctor. So, with different options, we check with them. We go back and forth that based on this and that feedback you had; they provide you this. presentations because we figured out that these are in line with your vision about the space, how you see this space, and how and what kind of space makes you comfortable and relaxed with your brand and your services that you're going to provide your patients.
So, there's a lot of check and balance during the design as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It just seems so. This sounds so challenging. When you're a plastic surgeon and you have a patient bring in a photo of themselves or somebody else and say, this is what I want. Does anyone do that? Does the doctor bring in a photo of their friend's office and say, I want this? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Because that would be a whole lot easier than going, let me, let me explain my vision to you. I can't imagine how that, that translates. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: It's quite tough and that's what makes our, our, our work quite interesting. Because if you were to design buildings that were all they were all similar, like, you've seen cookie cutters before, like, have not driven in developments that all the houses look alike.
That doesn't take much brain. You do one and you repeat 100 times and you just change the color. Okay, if you were to do that, it would be one. It could be a very boring practice. So, and everybody would get something similar. This way we basically fit the vision to the to the client's mind.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: So, actually, what we've seen architecture failed.
One thing I just want to add is some of the architects, they established their own style. And client goes there because they know they do this specific style, but we don't do that. We are so proud of being able to go through the client mind and making sure we can deliver what they love to see and have.
And that's why when you go to our website, you see many different. different look and spaces that they are different, but we can proudly say that they are very successful places for the doctor that they be designed for, for them.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Basically, if the doctor could have been an architect and a creative person, how would they create their own practice if they were to design it?
That's what we like to do for them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And how much does the patient journey experience fit into this? Because does a doctor know he wants Only two exam rooms or four exam rooms and he, he just wants a little reception area because he doesn't plan on keeping people waiting. And does he want a big kitchen or a little kitchen? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Does he plan on having a conference center where his staff trainings happen or private or is he going to have private events? Who decides all that? Because you have to decide that early on before you even mention anything about price, right? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Again, again, when you go to the process tab on the website, we have examples and it'll show.
Look, this is the process. It's a process which has to take place for all of those to be figured out. And that's called programming. And that during the programming process One thing is to understand client's vision, which is the Pinterest page. The other part is. Understanding exactly or helping the client to understand what does go inside their building.
So, the size of the waiting room or the size of the sterilization or a clean room or a soil room all determining factor by how many hours you have. Okay. Or what kind of accreditation you're and we will actually go through that process and help the doctor to figure out the major stuff. And then, by default, we tell them what, what you may, you need to have, how big you may need to have them.
And, of course, that determines the score footage. And that's oftentimes happens before even the build. We have to do that before we build a building because we don't know really how many score foot. We need. So, I recommend to figure that out before anything else.
Catherine Maley, MBA: See, that's another really good point. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
If they, they don't know how many square feet they need until there's a big discussion about it, and you really strategically look at that. And then, then they have to go find a realtor or something or buy a building. Like a lot of them have already found the space. And now they want to retrofit it. Like they're always in different stages, depending on how far along they are, how, who, how many people they've talked to, you know. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Well, they, they ask a lot of questions.
Like a lot of surgeons do have friends, let's say they have two ORs and a quad ASF certified, and they ask their friends, how many square foot you got? And they say, okay, 5, 000 square foot. So, that, that experience is there. So, they start going with the realtor and ask for 5, 000 square foot. Or talk to a contractor, say, okay, can you build me 5, 000 square foot with two of ours?
And it happens every day. It happens every and that's fine. We get into the process sometimes maybe a quarter of the way that they're in it, we get into it, and we help them out. But it is, it would be good to know that first before you look for it.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: And not only Forest Grove, but that they need, also there's a lot of other infrastructure.
That need to be considered to be in place to be able to deliver, for example, to our surgery and if the really that the space has capability of installing the extra stuff, we need for a surgery center. And that's why we really recommend all the doctors to also consult with an architect prior to going through to end part of the lease.
Although the space may look so fantastic and very, very attractive, but if they cannot put their generator, if they have issue with OR, or, you know, discharging patient and this and that there, so that would be a big problem during the construction.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: I recommend before they sign the agreement, they have an architect to check it out because you don't want to push the surgery center into an office building that you like.
You got to make sure it fits in there. And as I said, those are very important things. And so, what we can do, we can help them with that. If they found a place that they really love, we can check it out. Or an architect should really check it out to tell them. Okay. Yeah. You know what, doctor, you can have the 2 hours.
That room can be in or that's good room. We can move the wall and make it an hour and we see enough infrastructure where we can actually adapt this space to a search. Please before you sign dotted line.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That is important. I don't envy you. I find this to be a monumental project and you haven't even started yet. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
You know, golly give me the most common mistakes made that this audience can avoid. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Common mistakes is I think we should base on that. One would be. And not to well, I walked into a building last week northeastern portion of our California here and the doctor had to hire the general contractor and a non-licensed general contractor doing the work and his patients. Does a lot of work on, you know, and pays a lot of expense, a lot of money in the office, is doing her into his interior design.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, of course. It's either her or the wife. Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden, everyone's an interior designer. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Exactly. So, so I was like, walking in, we don't have a licensed contractor. We have a person who's a patient. Doing interior design and I just walked out. I wasn't going to, we were going to get mixed into that because that from the very get go, you're asking for disaster and I am sure they have managed to pay each 1 of these people in a very low, whatever by services or because you don't have license.
We do the point I'm making. That is one big mistake if you use nonprofessional people to help you. You can't use your friends, you can use your, you cannot use your uncle. Those are big mistakes, or sister to do this and that. Because this is not the type of work you want those people to really handle.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: That's true. I think one of the other things that we see every day, and that's not good, and it's not pleasant to watch people going through these things. A lot of doctors, They fell into a trap of going with the lowest cost, although we do believe that we have to save money for our clients and everybody needs to be budget conscious, but being the less expensive.
It's not. It doesn't mean it's the best. So, our clients paid a lot when they went to the cheapest one. Which they figured out that they have to pay much more to solve the issue that raises from that decision. So, let's do your due diligence, but don't fell in the trap of someone tempting you that, Hey, I am the cheapest one.
I can do this job for you with that lowest cost possible that may shock you.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Honestly, it's very difficult to assess what an architect does for the doctors, because if you go for a liposuction, you say, okay, my stomach is this much, I'm going to do a lipo, or I'm going to do this, and okay, that's it. It's very, very determined what each surgeon does.
But an architect can say, okay, I'll do your surgery center for you. And you, he can prepare drawings, about eight sheets of drawings, and get a permit for you. And a contractor can take those eight sheets and build it for them, but the same project can be done by another architect instead of seven sheets.
Of drawings, he'll do 70 sheets of drawings. There is a difference between the two. It's not that one is dying to draw. No, it's just one is trying to do the job right the first time and figure everything out into the detail. So, during construction, there are no change orders. There is no time missed because of the change orders.
There is no issue during permit process. So, the permit issue is issued quite fast. And at the end, you have a great product. Yes. And if you're going to bid that project, people don't put their hand in their pocket and come up with a bid. They look at the drawings because the drawings are so comprehensive and so detailed that anyone could put a price on it because they know what they're betting.
They don't, they can't, they don't have to imagine or assume things that goes into the building where all of a sudden, the beds are so different far apart from each other. So, if, if the architect they select is the right architect and do a very comprehensive work, that architect. Should save them a lot of time and money.
Time is also money and get a project done really right. Unfortunately, people oftentimes don't think of that because they see the fee of an architect really low, but they really don't know what that means. They come say, well, we got this architect is going to do it for. Say this amount, but you are three times more expensive.
How is that? It's permit is permit. That's where they don't really know and cannot assess the difference in work. And that is where I tell our clients. Please, let me show you an example of a work, and then the next, when you go through an interview with other architects, have a look and see for the same 5, 000 square foot, you know, surgery suite, what are the drawings and deliverables
are, and then determine if, what you really want to do, and also understand and talk to the owner of the surgery center, say, it's. How much is change order? How much, how long did it take for you to go through permit process? How many changes did you have during construction? Because those things happen when you do something quick and fast and dirty.
You, you leave a lot of things without unanswered and then you have to pick them up somewhere during construction, which that takes time. That means it elongates the construction time. That means money. And nobody knows, nobody really, I hate to see. The clients go through that kind of horrible experience because they just don't know the domino effect.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: And also, when it comes to the time of bedding, if they receive the bed, and sometimes you know, some of the bed, they're slow enough to be so attractive. And some of our client, unfortunately, despite the fact that we asked them not to do that, they went with the lowest price because the contractor, you know, didn't have the experience in surgery center or other things.
So, they went there with the lowest price and unfortunately, due to the construction, they had to pay much more money they could have saved if they go with a much more qualified contractor. So, that's the whole. Are top gathering the whole team together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And a lot of the doctors never heard that term change order until they got into this process. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
So, talk about a change order because that changes everything. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: You know, that's true. When that change order comes, they are, they are in the middle of construction. They have no way back to get back out because They can't, it's just more costly to get out of that contract. So, they are subject to come up and pay and eat up the time and do it.
Those are those are some of the things we see that it's a mistake. That the clients do, and we also have some of our own mistakes that we have done. And some of them is to, one of them is that, like Marzi said, we realize the owner is picking the least expensive. Contractor who has never done a surgery.
So, we realized it's not really a good fit and still remain in the contract. So, what we do, we realized remaining or keeping ourselves into that contractual agreement. It's going to have an eventually it's going to be a bad product and we're going to get hurt by it as well. So, we now have something in our agreement that we actually have the right to get out because we know is not, is not going to happen because, because we want a project with minimum risk, because any risk that comes upon the client, it is our own.
What are your top, what are your top red flags? Top red flags are like if I see the owner is looking at the bottom, bottom line only, because if you are, if your client goes to that surgeon and that client of that surgeon thinks the same way, that surgeon will not do the surgery.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Imagine the patient goes to a doctor and says, do my cheek or my face with the lowest price possible without looking at the, you know, before and after or result of the work.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: So, that's the biggest red flag. Another red flag is when a client decides to be the contractor or the architect or project manager. That or we, we, that is one of the, that's the upfront number one red flag where we recommend if you are going to an architect, trust the architect, like when your patient trusts you.
When you do a lipo, you put that patient to sleep. That means they're totally vulnerable, vulnerable and trusted you on that table, right? You need to be the same way to an architect. You have to pick somebody that you totally trust and let them do it. Go every day to the project site. Go check things out.
You want to change something? Talk to the architect. You want to move something? Talk to the architect. Do not talk to the contractor. Do not express yourself.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: Do not talk to subcontractors. Some of them.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: That is, that is number one problem because the moment client starts engaging with the subcontractors and contractors, that's where everything goes wrong.
I suggest that interaction should be up front with the architect during design process. And then when the design process is very comprehensive and you don't leave anything out, you've spent enough time to build the project on paper. Therefore, there is nothing going to be afterthought. Okay? So, everything is figured out.
You're done. Now it's time for this contractor to build it. And you have your architect as your quarterback during construction, who's watching your back. Watching every step. This contractor is doing. You need to acquire that service from your architect to be involved in construction. But for us, the moment we realized the country, the owner is going to be a project manager or a designer and also help during construction.
We're out. We don't take that part because if you don't take that project. That should say something to the surgeon. It's like two surgeons want to do one surgery at the same time. And one of them is not really a surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we have to talk about permits because it seems to me that's one of the biggest delays. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
By the way, so when you're, when you come on board and you all have figured out a budget. Is there wiggle room there, especially for, obviously, change orders, but the permit situation, the time delays, how do you figure all that out? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Well, everything is somewhat based on we can control the time that we design for a project.
That is under our control. We cannot, nobody can control permit. And so, we put a timeline together and say, okay, we design it for, let's say, eight weeks or two months or three months design time. But then we allocate, let's say, two months for permits, depending on what project it is, what complexity it has, what city or county it is.
We will put that number according to our experience. Okay. And the, the bed environment and how busy the construction time is. So, we will put that assumption in there is assumed. There is nothing else we can do. And then we assess how much time it takes for back and forth with the county until the permit is ready.
So, we give a pretty much a. Not a rosy picture, a pretty tough picture to the client. Right. And tell him, Bob, you need to accept this. It's going to take you two years. Oh, no. I was told by a local architect it's going to take three months. That right there is another red flag. It's a big red flag. You know you cannot talk to this client any further because they are going to hurt themselves like there is no tomorrow.
Anybody who says that. They just want to take that project, involve themselves with the project, and after that it's too late to exit.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: And let me tell you one example exactly with regards to that. We had a project, potential project, that they asked us, we want to give you this project, but our condition is you finish and get the permit before December 2020.
Exactly that timeline. We looked at the project. We looked at the jurisdiction and we said to the doctor and landlord that this is not possible. This is not realistic. We can do whatever we can in regards to our part. What we cannot promise you, you get and obtain the permit, but that's it. Imagine what the project is still in the process.
They went to another architect. They signed the project. They signed the contract with another project. You know, the architect and they just started all the design phase. The project is still in the process from 2020. And that was a small TI. Very small project. Be realistic. That's the whole point. I have a city that they can get back to us in one month.
I I'm working with the city that they haven't issued the first round of comments after six months. So, crazy. We have to have plan B always. Always we have to talk to our clients at the beginning of the project. We said, let's, let's plan for good situation. Let's plan for the worst scenario.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Another red flag is clients, doctors who they're going to buy the tile from their friend who's going to give him a discount tile.
They're going to bring an electrician to buy their friend who they're going to buy the light ceiling lights from their friend over there. And guess what happens. It complicates the project. The bids are going to be higher because the contractor knows he's not going to have a full project with full profit.
So, he jacks up the price and the doctor at the middle of the construction who has been promised to get those lights is not able to get the lights. And the tile is not coming because the right tile is discontinued and now, he has to change. It is so bad. It is so bad. So, because everyone wants to cut cost, I suggest cut cost.
But cut cost within time. That you will be spending constructing this project because everything you don't have, you're already for you. That's the amount you have to pay to operate in a hospital.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and often they also have an office that they have to pay for, or they're going to get kicked out in a month. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
And now they have to go somewhere else and scrambling.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: That's true. And a lot of stress.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: We have a lot of stories. We have a lot of stories where, in fact doctors have done work without permit. And the building was sold to a new management, the old management was okay with it because the owner was a doctor to in the dark or owner was agreeing with that.
They sold it to a new management; they take over the lease. And the new management realized that thing was done without a permit, which it was against the covenant of the lease agreement. They kick them out. They had a demo the entire space. It was 800, 000 later, after costs for architects, lawyers.
demolition of the existing building and getting something interim to go to the new space. 800, 000 later they went to their new home. So, please don't do anything, any work without a permit. Just do it right. Just do it right the first time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because you're probably not going to ever do it again. So, you might as well do it right and not have to worry about it. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
I know somebody who had the friend that had the wood planking, like the planking flooring. And, and so they, they did that like to save some money. And sure enough, it was very poor quality. So, every time the laser fell or like the laser handle fell, like there'd be a divot in the floor and it was just a nightmare. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Yeah. Of course, using the right material for these type of environments is a plot. It's an important fact. How do you
Catherine Maley, MBA: know? How do you know when you're just chatting? Like if you're a doctor and you and they're saying, oh yeah, and we have this quality material we're using, how do you know? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Well, who's telling them?
Who's telling them? Are you saying the contractor would say something like that, that we have quality material? Oh, well, you, you need to trust the professional. So, if an architect tells you that and they don't deliver it, then they're liable for it. Because for a surgery suite, you have to use, or any medical practice, if you will, healthcare material is required.
And the pathogens microbial bacterial in the, in the air, all of that. I mean, especially postcode, people are really, really conscientious about that. You have to trust the professionals. So, if they tell you that they have to provide there is a specifications on the materials, how long they last was the warranty.
Same as the pattern and the color, there are other specifications. If there are sustainable materials, if there are green materials, if, you know, what kind of materials are we using? It's from the wood and the cavernous to glue that is in the back of the, if you will you know, planks, if you will, if you use vinyl planks or they are all, they all have specifications and you can read it.
You can study it. If the architect, architect must submit those to you. So, as a contract, so the way it works is if you have an architect on board before contract architect specifies in a pretty nice booklet, and that's how the contractor bids the project. But prior to installation, the contractor sent what's called submittal to the architect said it tells the architect I am buying this.
Per your specification, have a look and confirm if I'm buying the right thing. Then the architect looks at these specs and says, oh yes, you're buying the right thing, go buy it. Then he goes and buys it and installs it. So, there is a check and balance through the entire construction. If you eliminate the architect during construction, You don't know what you're going to get.
So, the architect must start from conception to occupancy, through occupancy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that is the overall theme here. Start with the architect and use A to Z, the architect, who's going to manage all of this. The surgeon, you stay out of it. You be the surgeon and let them be the project manager, but I would think you're communicating a lot. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Just make sure everyone stays on the same page. Boy, I can just see things going sideways halfway through this project and the doctor saying, that's not what I wanted. I want this instead, you know? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Absolutely. There's a two full communication should be between the architect and you know, it's like Of course, like, for instance, when we start a project, I do a lot of work with the programming.
We look at operational analysis, how to streamline the operations, and we do diagrams, expositions of parts and pieces and figure out the score footage and all of that, and then I hand it over to Margie. She will be the, she's the project architect or principal architect. She puts all of that together, and she comes up with a floor plan, and then during the entire process, We have the client involved and they have to be involved and approve every step of it.
And so, they will be very involved through, especially our front work. And once, once all the legwork is done and it goes to production, then they don't really have to be involved because it's just production of those drawings for permit, if you will.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: I would say communication is the key. And documentation.
So, we are so adamant about documentation through the process of design and construction. And that was interesting experience that I want to share with you. These documentation, even not with the owner or client, also with other parties, like consultants, like landlord, like this and the other, saved our clients a lot of money.
We had a project that landlord promised. The client to install new HVAC system, and they had it in email. We archived that and we kept it in our server. And a few years later, the client, after we finished the project, they came back to us and they said they had the issue with the landlord about the renewing the lease.
And we send them this previous email because your landlord promised you have this email. And then they could They could get what they deserve from the landlord, what has been promised in their days.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: It was about 25, 000 simple HVAC system that the landlord originally did not change as they had promised.
And now they had to, they had asked the tenant to buy a new one, and... That was a no, no. So, we just kept that had that email kept and when we send that, they accepted it was done.
Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.D: We are golden because our because our clients always in the loop that hey, doctor, we talked to this and this and the other. And that's the result of our conversation.
So, it's not about only materials or, you know, the other. So, it's everything related to the project. They need to know. And as much as they know more, We are better off.
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: Like I said, we architects should be the quarterback for the project. There are a lot of people involved in design and building a surgery center or medical school.
There are a lot of people involved and there is one client with limited budget and a big dream. And, and somebody got to be the quarterback, and that's what architects are trained for to do, but unfortunately, the medical world don't use the entire services an architect should provide oftentimes.
Architects are in the background behind the contract.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, with that we're going to wrap it up, but this is really interesting. I hope everyone's getting a lot out of this. The detail that goes into this, I had, I knew it was a lot, but this is really a lot. So, I highly recommend you go to www.KohanInc.com. How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
com. You've got to check out their gallery of photos. The designs are just beautiful. The offices are gorgeous. You really do great work. Is there anything, any way they can get ahold of you? What's the easiest way to get ahold of you if they want to chat? How does this impact or relate to your understanding if an architect is optional?
Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch: If they go to www.KohanInc.Com, there is a, a complimentary talk we can have for about 30 minutes.
Yes. And, or you can call me on my cell phone or Marzi, either, or we'd be happy to. Answer. I think I always say talent is easy to find, but reliability is hard to acquire. So, we're available. So, just call us on the cell phone. If you go on the online, there is our mobile number. Everything is there. You can call us.
You can reach us and schedule a time to talk.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And by the way, I'm now offering my free copy of an 81-page guide I did called "Plastic Surgery Marketing, What's Working Now".
I decided to give it away for free. full of patient attraction strategies. And you can get that at www.CatherineMaley.com/Free.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on βis architect optionalβ.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Marzi or Mohsen you can reach out to their website at, www.KohanInc.com.
A big thanks to The Kohan Group for sharing their advice on if an architect is optional.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βIs Architect Optional? β with Mohsen Ghoreishi, M.Arch & Marzi Emami Ghoreishi, Ph.Dβ.
#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends2023 #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons
#kohangroup #thekohangroup #mohsenghoreishi #marzi ghoreishi #marziemamighoreishi #architectsforsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeryarchitech #healthcarearchitect #healthcarearchitects
π² Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine https://bit.ly/3D513rs
π Restart your practice in 7 days https://bit.ly/46Gwaaa
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to learn a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Faster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic Revenues".
The ultimate goal to scaling your cosmetic revenues must include a system that attracts a steady stream of cash-paying patients WITHOUT you spending a fortune on advertising, chasing down leads, hiring more staff, discounting services or performing on social media.
When you really get this, you stop grabbing for shiny objects and quick fixes because you have a plan in place to keep βpriming the pumpβ with a steady flow of cash-paying patients you can count on.
Listen in on this weekβsBeauty and the Biz Podcast where I talk about:
- What it takes to scale your practice faster
- How to increase average spend per patient to bulletproof your income
- What smart practices do to easily win new patients, starting NOW
Because the objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so itβs more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time, so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with.
See if you're a good candidate for the KiSS Loyalty Club.
P.S. Please subscribe!
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Transcript:
Faster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic Revenues Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice and a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA.
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
And today's topic is βfaster way to scale your cosmetic revenuesβ.
So, you're going to love this if you're surrounded by competition and you need to stand out and you reluctantly discount your services to attract new cosmetic patients or if too many of your patients don't book again so, you have to spend more to replace them with new patients.
And this is also for you if you're interested in a faster, cheaper, easier way to acquire new patients without discounting your services. And if you're looking for a surefire way to increase your patient's value so, you have predictable and reliable revenues month after month. And if you're interested in a new way to cut your advertising budget while still getting new patients.
Because when it comes to attracting new surgical and non surgical cosmetic patients, I'm sure you've tried lots of different strategies. Such as designing or redesigning your website. Now, you may have tried a different internet marketing company to design your website the way you wanted it, and then you waited for months for it to be finished, and you were so, excited thinking this is going to change everything and allow for a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
But it didn't. You didn't get ranked like you thought you would, and now you're disappointed that your promised rankings that didn't deliver. So, you were told to pay for Google AdWords and build up your social media channels that will lead them to your new website. So, now you and your staff are spending time on organic social media posting, but the rules keep changing on which is the faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
So, you try to keep up and the apps that are available to help make your post more interesting are also confusing. But they might not be driving new prospective patients to you or it drives the audience to interact with you. But they don't convert to paid treatments. So, then you try social media advertising, but that's a whole other learning curve and it gets expensive testing and trying different ads that actually work.
So, oftentimes you get mediocre results and you have no idea why or how to fix it. Or maybe you've tried a membership club, but it hasn't gone well. Maybe it's too complicated for patients to understand and for staff to execute. So, I'll show you a different approach that addresses these typical problems and simplifies everything because here's what's going on in the marketplace.
The reality is, patient attraction has gotten intensely competitive, expensive, and super technical. Have you noticed? You may not realize just how insanely difficult it is to attract Now these are consumers roaming around on the internet, clicking around like crazy, and getting overwhelmed with the choice of providers they have.
Now that intense competition forces you to market yourself using creative digital strategies. That can be quite technical, as well as expensive, because you're spending time and money to get found on Google and social media platforms. And that's when Google and the social media platforms raise their prices, making your overhead costs go up, which means less profit for you.
I mean, let's just take Facebook advertising. There are 8 million monthly active businesses advertising on Facebook, and 1 million more are added each year. That means it's going to cost you a lot more to attract new patients. By the way, Facebook has increased their advertising rates 30% every year because they can.
So, here's another huge challenge on gaining a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues. Internet privacy issues. The future of Google, Facebook. Instagram and Apple is to not share data like before because of privacy, safety and fraud issues. Now some of them are being sued for billions of dollars by the government for collecting and sharing data about all of us, and that had to stop.
Although it feels to me like that cat is already out of the bag. But that means these platforms are not going to allow you to target specific audiences like before. So, online advertising has become very similar to TV advertising. You spray and pray to everybody and hope your target market sees your ads.
But you won't be able to track who actually clicks on them unless you have sales funnels set up to capture their contact information. So, suffice it to say, this will make it even more expensive to attract new patients so, you'll spend more and get less results. By the way, I strongly suggest you do everything you can from now on to control your own database of patients, and prospective patients, and your social media friends, and anyone else you know who is or could be interested in your services.
And you do that with opt in landing pages that ask for their name, cell phone, and email. This way, even if you're banned from a marketing channel, you can still communicate with your followers. Now the next trend that hurts your bottom line is the decrease of organic social media reach. Organic equals free, and we love that. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
But you may have this false sense of security thinking you're staying in touch with your patients using your social media. When in reality, It's estimated that you can only count on about 5. 2% of your fan base and followers seeing anything you post organically. And why is that? Because they want you to pay to play, but oftentimes they won't approve your ads if you're hurting the self esteem of viewers.
So, it's a catch 22. And when you're marketing to the public. You get a real mixed bag of quality leads. So, you have to know, who do you want to work with all day? Complete strangers who don't know you, don't trust you, are skeptical and closed. Or, those patients who know, like, and trust you, wouldn't go anywhere else, and are a pleasure to be around. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
And isn't it easier to convert the established patient who's open to you and your suggestions, than the internet stranger patient who's skeptical and holding back? Also, your established patients are much less price sensitive because they have more to go on than price. They know you and the results to expect because they've experienced your work firsthand.
They have peace of mind. They'll get another good result with no hassle. That matters to them more than saving money to a huge majority of consumers. It's also far cheaper to encourage your established patients to return than it is to attract new internet stranger patients to replace them, since it takes a lot to get someone's attention in today's crowded marketplace. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
Now your established patients are also more likely to give you a great review or they are more comfortable with you, so, if they are dissatisfied, There's a better chance they will go to you first before they complain on the internet. And we all know the best new patients come from current patients.
That fact seems to be taken lightly in most practices, but it's vital to remember and encourage. Word of mouth referrals are your lifeblood. You'll run out of time, money and energy running a burn and churn kind of practice. The longer you've been in practice, the less you need to exert that kind of time, money and energy.
Because, you now have or should have a raving fan club, or at least you could have a raving fan club who returns and refers a lot more often. And here's one more point worth mentioning. I heard a talk given by a VP at Allergan who was talking about a study they did of injectable customers, and learned that one half never returned to you and it's so, true, In your mind, all of your patients come back because those are the patients you remember. The ones that don't come back, you don't know and don't remember. That skews your perception. So, you don't focus on that part of your practice as an issue to address. But this is exactly where to focus if you want a faster, cheaper, easier way to more cosmetic revenues.
So, now for the good news, because it's not all doom and gloom. There's always a way and plenty you can do to adapt to these changing times. Now here's the best news of all. Cosmetic consumers have endless needs, such as wrinkles, red and brown spots, blotchy skin, sagging body parts, and unwanted fat pockets.
But patients will do all they can to avoid surgery, if at all possible. That's why non surgical is a 3 billion industry and growing. Thanks to social trends, social media, and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the need to look your best without surgery. And let's face it, we females are hard on ourselves.
We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves, and then we finally have had enough and we do something about it, and then what do we do? We go find something else that bothers us about us and we focus on that. It never ends and that's what keeps all of us in business. That's why you want to develop that relationship now so, when they're ready for surgery, they choose your practice because they know, like, and trust you already. This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
And once they have surgery, They're much more likely to now want your non surgical treatments to keep their new look looking good, especially as the aging process continues. I mean, think about it. Somebody who cares about their appearance will care today and next month and next year and for a lifetime.
So, you can become their one stop shop for years to come. And here's more good news. The talk I heard from the Allergan VP reported that while 65 million people in the U. S. would consider facial injectables, only 4 million have been treated. That's only 6% of the U. S. market, so, the room for growth is enormous.
And here's another interesting stat. Loyal patients spend 67% more than new patients. And that makes sense because if they know, like, and trust you, they're open to your recommendations and will gladly buy your services when offered. And lastly, a 5% increase in patient retention increases your profits by 25 to 50% because...
You already spent the money to attract them. So, now you just have to hang on to them. And recurring patients tend to buy more, return more often, and refer their friends. This increases their lifetime value and decreases your marketing budget. The point is that the faster way to grow your cosmetic revenues is through retention, because now you use the resources you already have.
And that's your leverage. Retention costs very little time and money, but adds up to easy profits. So, let me ask you this. How big would your cosmetic revenues be if you didn't lose your patients? You likely have a database of thousands of patients. Can you imagine what would happen to your bottom line if a majority of them returned for more? This is important in relation to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
I know for a fact many of them would gladly return. If given the opportunity, and I'll show you how. So, here's how to scale your cosmetic revenues. You change your mindset, you change the media, you change the market, and you change the message. And I'll go through each one of those now. So, when you change your mindset from a one time transactional patient to a relational lifetime patient, your world opens up to new opportunities.
You see things differently. So, rather than see your patients with money signs, see them with love instead. Get excited for them. They want to look good and feel great. So, your job is to help them get those feelings. Focus more on their experience with you and how they're feeling. Remember, this is a consumer with a credit card who has lots of choice when it comes to fun medicine.
So, they're going to visit the practice that makes them feel good in a comfortable, fun, friendly way. Please see and treat your patients with love since they're responsible for your success. Now when you treat your patients right, they become lifetime fans rather than one hit wonders. They return again and again and they bring their friends with them. This is key to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
This is the faster, cheaper, easier way to fill your practice with lifetime patients who turn into loyal fans who love you and wouldn't dream of going elsewhere. Please spend more time developing relationships with your patients so, they feel appreciated, acknowledged, and special. It's simple things like smiling and saying hello when a patient walks through the door rather than ignore them when you're working on the computer.
And asking them if they're comfortable throughout their treatment. And it's getting to know them as a person. The goal is to make sure they're smiling when they walk out the door. The secret is to make your patients feel special, because they are. Please treat these cash paying patients with friendliness, kindness, and respect.
Also, who's your target market? Or, who are your preferred patients? Rather than focus all of your time, money, and effort trying to attract new internet strangers, focus more on your loyal fans. and their friends and family. Give them such a great experience they brag about you to others they know and talk you up online.
Because the shortest distance between you and new patients is the girlfriend talking to her girlfriends. It has always been that way and will continue to be the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to grow your cosmetic revenues. Because we trust our friends way more than we trust someone's website. If our friends tell us you're great, we believe them. This is paramount to a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
So, do everything you can to give them a wow experience they can't forget. That ensures your name comes up when they're talking about cosmetic rejuvenation. The goal is to create a referral snowball effect, which means one patient refers a friend, then two patients become four, and four become eight, and eight become sixteen, and so, on.
And it happens organically without you overspending on advertising. Then, what's the next closest thing to a word of mouth referral? That would be social proof online. Consumers will still check you out online to either verify what their friend said, or to see what others say about you out of curiosity.
Now you want to do everything you can to be sure they read only good things about you, and they approve their before and after photos to be used in your marketing efforts. New prospective patients need proof. They need to trust you are the best choice, and reviews and photos do that. And what I love about a good online review is that it's one to many.
So, one review is seen by prospective patients online, and that's how you grow your patient list. With your current patients bragging about you, not only to their friends and family, but also online to thousands of other prospective patients searching for help. Please make it a priority to build social proof by taking before and after photos, shoot happy patient videos, and encourage your happy patients to give you a review online.
By the way, it's a really good exercise to read not only your reviews online, but also your competitors and even others outside your area. You'll learn a lot about what patients care about, and it will help you improve your own processes. By the way, to eliminate bad reviews, the big no no's are keeping patients waiting, unfriendly staff, scheduling mishaps, and money misunderstandings.
And remember, you lose that patient, but you also lose their future revenues and those of their friends you're never going to meet. Now you want to change the media to a multi channel plan. In today's noisy world, you need up to 31 points of contact to get someone's attention. So, basically you need to be everywhere and use all marketing channels. This is required for a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
Your prospective new patients could be using. You can't count on just one way to market. You need lots of poles in the pond working together. That means you need ongoing new content to keep your audience engaged. And here's the most important. Change the message. Because it's so, insanely difficult to get a complete stranger to buy something from you, you'll oftentimes fall back on price, as in lower prices or discounts.
That message attracts price shoppers, but then you're frustrated that you're being nickel and dimed to death. So, do you see the catch 22? All of this discounting is hurting your profits and your image, and it's a race to the bottom because you can't compete if you're barely covering your overhead. So, I want to propose a different way.
Let's change the message from special promotions to giving your patients kisses towards free cosmetic services. The more they spend, the more kisses they collect to get to different levels. So, using this kiss strategy, one patient who is typically worth 1, 000 to you. is now worth 10, 000 to you because you have a proven system to compel your patients to return more often, refer their friends, give you a review that attracts online prospective patients, and share you on social media so, their followers choose you too.
That means a certain number of your patients grow your cosmetic revenues for you organically with preferred patients you want to work with that are just like them. Point being, you implement a system to grow your revenues with the resources you already have. And that gives you leverage and peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues.
Do you see how strategic leverage gets you better results with less time and money? If so, you'll love what I have for you coming up. So, with this creative solution, you don't need to advertise discount, hire more staff, or buy more lasers. Introducing the autopilot patient attraction loyalty and retention system called the Kiss Loyalty Club, where your patients get kisses towards free cosmetic services rather than discount. This is a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
And that's because you love your patients and you want more patients just like them. So, that means your patients are going to have fun collecting kisses and you'll keep more profits. Now using our proprietary software and done for you marketing system, we encourage your patients to collect kisses for different levels of services, such as Botox, filler, or laser treatments.
And your patients get extra bonus kisses when they grow your practice for you by returning, referring, reviewing, completing surgery, approving their before and after photos. And sharing you on social media so, their friends and followers choose you too. Now the Kiss Club website is at KiSSLoyalty.com and it's different than anything else out there because it's drop dead easy for staff to use, it's fun and compelling for patients, they love it, the marketing is done for you, and it's exclusive to your practice only because it locks out your competitors since patients can only get the kisses from you.
It's also different because my team and I play an active role in your results. We take responsibility for your success and we have an obligation to your outcome and that's why we do all the marketing for you so, you don't have to. Now this way you spend more time developing relationships with your patients.
Doesn't that make more sense? If so, please go to KiSSLoyalty.com to see if you're a good fit for the Kiss Loyalty Club. We would love to work with you to take care of this part of your practice for you.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on a faster way to scale your cosmetic revenues.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βFaster Way to Scale Your Cosmetic Revenuesβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Doctor Chong went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Commodities Trader to Surgeon β with Lavinia K. Chong, MD".
Even when you knew you wanted to be a surgeon since you were a kid, the road to get there was bumpy and full of twists and turns.
But when you donβt know yet what you want to be when you grow up, the road is even bumpier.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Lavinia Chong, MD, a 2nd generation board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Newport Beach, CA.
Dr. Chong has a lovely English accent since she was born in London, and her father was a plastic surgeon who then brought the family to America for opportunity.
However, Dr. Chong initially wanted to be a flight attendant, but instead became a commodities trader BEFORE she decided to follow in her fatherβs footsteps.
But even then, she took the long path of becoming an ER doc, doing maxillofacial, workerβs comp, MOHS, and breast reconstructionβ¦.all while raising 2 kids with her very hands-on husband.
She eventually went 100% cosmetic 15 years ago and hasnβt looked back.
Dr. Chong also credits yoga that helped/helps keep her sane π
Visit Dr. Chong's website P.S. Please subscribe!
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Transcript:
Commodities Trader to Surgeon β with Lavinia K. Chong, MD **Catherine Maley, MBA:** Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Chong went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to get you more patients and more profits.
Now, today's guest is Dr. Lavinia Chong, who went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon, and she's a second-generation board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice for the past 20 years in Newport Beach, California, where she grew up.
Now, Dr. Chong lived and trained in Mexico before transferring to the Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. Boy, that's a culture shock.
And then did a five-year general surgery residency in University of California, San Diego. She then completed a three-year residency at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston Plastic Surgery. Now, Dr. Chong belongs to several medical societies and is a mega yoga enthusiasts. You'll see her on her website. She's knowing what she's doing there.
So, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Chong. It's a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I'm very honored to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, you know, what's throwing me off is, how did you pick up an accent when you were, you grew up in Newport Beach, but you've traveled a lot. So, where did that come from? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I was born in London, so, I'm actually a Cockney. My father was training at St. Bartholomew's, which is one of the London teaching hospitals. We lived there for many years, and then he decided he'd emigrate to America at a time when there were, there was a need for recruitment of foreign medical graduates. So, we spent five years in Philadelphia and then we ended up in Newport Beach.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow, you ended up in a very nice part of the United States. Did you, and it's so, nice that you came from Philadelphia to here because then you really appreciate it. I think it would be so, tough to go from California to Minnesota or to Philadelphia, you know, just from weather, you know. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Absolutely. My dad was a, was a, was a pretty sharp cookie and he was he was looking for opportunities.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for him. And so, did you always want to be a plastic surgeon like he did or did some big moment in your life happen? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I wanted to be a flight attendant because I was a I was a language major in college.
And I said, I came to my father and he says, no, our people don't do it. I actually finished up I finished high school early. I spent a lot of time at an undergrad at UC Irvine. Then I went to UCLA for a year, dossing around in public health. And I'm like, I really am not getting this. So, I went to England and I dropped out of formal education.
And so, what was the call to action was I worked for about three and a half years as a commodities broker. I sold financial futures on the London international financial futures exchange.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The jungle, you know, jungle, I can't imagine what did, did you like it? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Oh, it's great. It's a great opportunity for young people.
You made, you, you feel like you're really in the thick of things. This is a day before you have a lot of the computer trades and when I worked for a company and they, they, we made masses of money, which is great. When you're young, it's a, it's a great, very, very convivial lifestyle. But I think in the long run, you know, you either end up retiring army and you have laryngeal nodules or you have some odd devices.
So, I thought I would go back and. And my dad said, well, good luck to you. No one's going to take you because you're a mature student and you might go to Mexico. So, I did. Did you like it? It was interesting because, backing on my language, I was able to pick up the, the translation pretty quickly and I became the, one of the class scribes because I could understand the language and so, I took all the notes for the class and I told my newly community.
newly acquired husband that we would, we would transfer back in one semester, but I got, I had three semesters up there and then I transferred back. So, it was interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, and, and amongst all of that going on, you also ended up having two kids. One or two? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: That was after I got into general surgery residency.
I had one in general surgery residency and one in plastic surgery residency.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's insane. I don't know how you women; a lot of you women are doing that. I don't get it. I, I don't get it. How do you balance that? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Sometimes you, sometimes like they say a blind pig gets an acorn, so, you know, you have to, timing is never right in a lot of the You know, we wanted to, we wanted to have children and we fell pregnant and that was it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you get any sleep those years? I'm, I'm a, I'm a bit of an older trainer. So, five years of general surgery was what was requisite, what was requisite for plastic surgery in my time. And, you know, the hours we worked were longer because that was just what was done, you know, so, I had two weeks for maternity leave for my general, in general surgery for my son and I had three weeks for my daughter and plastic surgery residency. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: So, you learn to, you learn to deal with what you, what you're given.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Would you do it any differently? if you could do it again? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, because I was a mature student, I had a certain kind of time ticking with me because, you know, fertility goes down after a certain age for a woman. And so, you know, I am very lucky to have had a great husband who picked up the picked up the baby hatchlings and just took care of them after I went back to work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And your husband's not hard to look at either, you know, good job there. Yeah. And he's handy with the children. You can't ask for any more than that. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah, just, just very good, creative, good son, best friend.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, so, glad to hear that. Now did you go into private practice or did you go into academia right away? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
How did you, what was your trip, what was your journey to private? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Well in the sort of spring of my senior year at Galveston, you know, I informed my father I thought I might want to come back to Orange County and he said, good, have you, have you got a job set up? And I go, no, I thought I was going to come home and you're going to pay me a stipend.
To which he responded, no. So, that was sort of a pivotal time when my father first came to Orange County, he was one of, like, five plastic surgeons in town. And I think at last count, there probably, we're probably over 150 right now. Of course, you are. So, you know, he was, he was one of the old guards.
So, I think in a sense, he said, go away and see if there's anything else you like better. Yeah, I make sure that this is something that you're really coming to with your eyes open. So, I went off and I looked, I interviewed and I came home.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He's the old school parenting. I had that as well. I, I miss that. I think I; you know, you really learn who you are and, and your pain tolerance and how much stronger you are than you think you are. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You know, I think it's, I think it's important to know that in any kind of business and marketing, what you want and what you need are two different things. And you really have to have a good sense of who you are and what's going to work for you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Did you go into Recon and did you try to balance both Recon and Cosmetic or are you just Cosmetic? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
What's your percentage? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You know, for the first, for the first A couple of years I was straight. I was an ER doc. I worked three ER panels. I took everybody who's called who would give it to me. You know, I did, I did maxillofacial trauma and then I got into the workman's comp thing and I did a bunch of hand surgery.
And I, then I was offered a position on a managed care group. And so, I became a breast cancer reconstruction surgeon and I did. And I was starting to see a bit of cosmetic but I was doing mostly bread and butter. Mohs chemo surgery repairs, some more maxillofacial, bed sores, and a lot of the, the basic breast reductions, which I think I still love to do nowadays, but I think at the end of the day, When I had a requisite following and I, I do, I do go over and look at my, my database from time to time and just see who's coming in the door, what, what they're asking for.
And I, after I had that critical mass, I said, okay, I'm out. I'm not going to do that anymore. So, I've been 100% cosmetic for about 15 years now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. Was that a tough decision to make? Did you starve the first like year or two to get the no, not really? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, I'd been drafting and building in the cosmetic and then what I think was hardest was Letting go of my breast cancer reconstruction patients, because I think in a sense, when you travel with a woman through a year of building a breast, you oftentimes see women who are my age or maybe even younger, and you have that sort of sense of empathy and say, Hey, my life could be a lot worse.
And they inspire you to get some better, more innovative solutions to their problems.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you think it was helpful that you were a female plastic surgeon working with these females? Because talk about an emotional journey. I mean, cosmetic patients are emotional, but in a fun way. Breast, breast reconstruction is serious, emotional handholding.
Did you think that helped, you know, you being a woman? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I do. And I think it's also, I give credit to my office because we had, you know, we'd have people who just sit in the chair and cry for an hour. And the thing is, you know, and, you know, after I gave him a hanky and said, Yeah, I, I know it's a scary thing, but here's where we'll start, and we'll start, and we won't always get there on one thing.
So, I, I think in a sense, to have that patience and to have the staff who would hold, hold the appointments longer for me, that, that gives, I would definitely give credit to the whole team to, to know that, okay, here's a breast cancer reconstruction. Sorry, I, I can't do the Botox today because I'm going back to the ER because I've had a problem.
Things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's very difficult to juggle the two of them and do it well. You know, you'll often alienate somebody there. So, absolutely. Yeah. So, all right. So, you walked away from that. I will tell you though, in California I've been at this for a long time, quite a few of the doctors were building ORs.
At the time workers comp was handling breast reduction very you know lucratively and in the middle of them building out these, you know, 6 million projects they shut that down. You know, like there just wasn't the, the reconstructive reimbursement like there was. And I mean, boy, you, you know what, no matter what you're doing, there's something could side blind, blindside you, you know, whether it be government regulations, whether it be the economy, you just never know.
Have you found that to be challenging, trying to figure out what your next move is with things going on externally? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I think so. I mean, I probably would say to you, I read more. I read the news online. I try to, try to talk to my colleagues and say, is this something specific or do I, or is this just some bad journalism that's making, to make your coronary squeeze?
But I think there's one thing that's certain, change is inevitable and you're going to have to put some energy in there and you, and you may have to, to abandon old sacred cows because you, you cannot do the same thing that you did at the beginning of your career. There's, there's a whole life cycle to surgeons, to businesses, to, to even ideas.
And so, we're, we're changing and that's, that's the one constant in life. And, and it's, it's difficult to change for some people, but you know, I've, I've tried to bob and weave to keep on that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you have to because a lot of the surgeons think, no, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm leaving soon anyway.
I'm just going to go stay status quo. And the world will walk all over you. You, you can't even stay status quo. You have got to, to change with things. You don't have to do major, major, but Boy, you've got to go where the patients are going, where they're, where they're going for their information how they want to be worked with or talked to or consulted with.
Things are changing quickly, aren't they? Dear Lord. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You know what? It just means that you have to dig down deeper and find some tools in your toolkit. And then, I mean, there's some things I don't do in cosmetic surgery because I just don't want to do them. But, like what? I don't do a lot of prison and butler.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I know you're going to say that. Yeah, I hear you. It's a different crowd. It's a different, it's just a different animal. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah. Other things I don't think, you know, realistically, if I don't have my heart in it, I can't, I can't do a great job.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I understand. The regarding staff, you have this triple A. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
What is your triple A staff stand for? Able, available, and affable. I love that. They need to be, they need to know what to do. They need to be on the sites, and they have to be nice. Because nice is, is, it does nothing if you're not, if you don't know what you're doing.
How do you get them to do that? I am struggling with that in quite a few practices that I don't know what the staff, I don't know I just innately knew customer service, like be nice to people, and be friendly, and be enthusiastic, because I've got that down.
Thanks so, much. But I just took that for granted. I thought everybody was like that. And then I go into these practices and I think you literally have the patient deterrent department working for you, you know? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Well said. I mean, I think in a sense, my father didn't give me that, that, that knowledge because he had one girl Friday, he has a series of per diem scrub texts and things were done a lot differently in the seventies and eighties.
So, you know, that was my first job to get the, the office accredited when I came out of residency. And my response was, I don't know how to do that. And he, he replied to me, you'll learn. I love you, dad. Yeah. So, I mean, I was like, okay. I think in looking for staff, I've looked for people who would be not threatening to patients, because I think when patients come in, They're nervous, they're worrying about what's it going to look like, who's going to look after me, how much does it cost, do I have the trust issue, will it be somebody I know and they're going to gossip about me, so, I mean we've, we've, we've had a number of iterations but what I'm so, happy about, because like most surgeons I hate to retrain, I've had pretty much got stable staff for quite a long time now, even after COVID or before COVID.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh! What's your secret? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I talk to people a lot, and I ask people, I'm like, what do you think? You know, do you think this is where we should be going? We, we, we have a lot of meetings, and we, we break it up a bit. And, and when I, when I have something that's bothering me, I really talk to people up, up, up front.
And I go, look, this has been creeping me out, and I, I would really like you to help me do this, this, and this. If, can you, do it? If you can do it, that's great. And if you don't want to do it, tell me why.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Peace.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: It's not always easy to be a female boss because I've grown into that role over the years.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why I'm asking. Females definitely, and I don't, I don't want to pull the gender card at all, but you need to be a tough boss, yet a compassionate boss. Like the women, there's a bigger balance there. Women working with women. We are hard on each other. I don't know what that's all about, but we are. So, if you can balance that good for you, are you really good at hiring? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Do you have some secret tips for hiring the right people? Cause that's half the battle, just getting the right people on there on the board.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, I've, I've gone through the typical routes. I was very lucky sometimes. Like I say, luck has a lot more to do with ability because in COVID, we closed for about six weeks and then we came back and we added an extra operating day because people couldn't travel and they would look at those faces on zoom and go like, I need something.
So, having my own office based surgical suite, it made it very convenient and safe. You know, basically my chief, my, my per diem nurse decided to retire in July. So, I just put, I put out ads on zip recruiter and LinkedIn and indeed, and I got a wonderful little nurse. And then when she said, this is more than I can handle.
I put, I put the ads out again, but I think it was the, I would like, I would like to think it was the authenticity of the ad that I placed. People came in and said, yeah, that's pretty much what you asked for. Yes, I can do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That good for you because people were really struggling to find nurses. They couldn't even do surgery half the time because they didn't have enough staff.
So, I don't know how you did that, but that's fantastic. Let's talk about your surgical suite for a second. Had you always had that or built that out recently? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: No, that was, that was something my dad always had, and he's the original tenant in this, in this office building. My husband is actually a very talented architect, and he's done a lot of surgical suites for my competitors in town.
And they are gorgeous. And he does dentistry and veterinarian, but he knows the codes very well. And so, we're a terrific cross pollination, because he'll ask me, well, where do I need to put this? And so, I'm like. I don't know anything about reproductive endocrinology, but I can find out a few. So, what we have is we have a surgical suite where we have, we don't, we do a low volume and I like to think a high quality because my direct employees are the nurses and the scrub tech.
I have a cadre of anesthesiologist, MD anesthesiologist. And I do use some CRNAs and our practice consultant is a great lady who gets everybody scheduled and put together. But we don't do any general anesthesia. So, we do everything under a heavy MAC, which is, which is primarily predicated on the fact that this is an older office building.
I don't have adequate ventilation for scavenging. And if there was an issue that I needed to, to treat with, I would be able to have the anesthesiologist. stop the propofol, wake them up in theory, and just run them down the stairwell. So, so, I mean, it's all for patient safety. We still have a general anesthesia machine.
We have all the, the accoutrements that the licensure requires. We have regular drills. But we find that the monitored anesthesia care allows the patients to recover a little bit quicker. For when I'm doing facelifts, I don't have a tube to stent the trachea. I don't have to worry about extubating the patients.
You know, our rates of post operative nausea and vomiting, although not zero, are very, very low.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you find that the patients like that option? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Because, I mean, I think in a sense with social media and reality TV, they see everybody going like this when they are on, on reversal, and mostly people wake up and they go, have we started?
I'm like, no, we're done. Right? So, it's a much gentler transition when they come back up again. So, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now what, what, what is it called? Is it like twilight, like a colonoscopy, or what kind of anesthesia? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: It's pretty much, it's pretty much propofol. I, I, I leave it to the anesthesia providers to take care of it, but we also do put local in and the local buffers, the whatever they do in the.
First said, or some benzos and maybe some, a little bit of tiny bit of fentanyl, but it's very timely because right now with the, with the fentanyl crisis, people are really scared about opioids. And so, you know, I've had husbands call me up and go, you gave my wife 10, 10 Norco. I'm like, she's not going to overdose, but they're, they're really terrified.
And when they go. You gave my wife Norco intraoperative. I'm like, I gave her 25 mikes, but they just want to know that their wives are going to be safe. Now, when they know that it's just local and propofol, obviously with the, with the Jackson, Michael Jackson death, there was some controversy over propofol, but it is a, it's a wonderful medicine, which is very powerfully anti-nausea genic.
It's out of the system probably in about 48 hours. And it, and it really makes people incredibly. Comfortable as a, as a sedative hypnotic,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm all for that. I had general and it was the worst experience. And I thought if you want me to get up and walk out of here, don't give me general. I'm sicker than a dog.
I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'm a train wreck. And I do you think, are you, is that different for you? Is that a good differentiator for you in Newport beach or is everybody doing that now? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I think there are increasingly more people who are doing things like my colleagues who do the light lift, where it's mostly IV, either IV sedation or IM with some oral sedatives, because there, there's a, now a, a great development of things like I would call them designer drugs.
MKO melts, Midazolam Ketamine and Ondansetron, which is a tablet which is put underneath the patient's tongue. The small procedures, you can do that if the patient's particularly nervous and it puts them a little bit dissociated. So, I mean, I do a lot of stuff under local because we do talk a seizure to just to have to stop, help the people and just say, no.
Just a little squeeze here, just a little stick and burn. And again, people love the idea that they're saving. It's safe, number one. Safety is number one. Two, that they don't have to pay for the anesthesiologist. Three, that they, they, they can participate a little bit, because we do eyelid lifts on the local.
We do sliding brow pexies, upper lip lifts. And so, these are things that are not particularly uncomfortable. And you, you don't have to put people to sleep with that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. And I like it as a marketing edge, you know the patients are waking up to that. That's, oh, that's a pun. They're they, if they don't have to go under, under and under general we've all, we've all heard the stories and that's all it takes is some celebrity story.
The, the poor woman that Asian author or something died and. In New York and like nobody wanted to go under general. They were canceling all their surgeries. It's just nice to have that option. So, good for you. Regarding staff, do you have, like, what's your feeling on surgical versus non-surgical? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Are you just a surgeon? Do you also want to grab that patient on the way up to surgery or take them on the way down from surgery to non-surgical? What's your feeling? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: A lot of my, my patients start as, as young. Mothers and their, their, their budget and their aims are on Botox, and then maybe they'll graduate to eyelids, and then a couple of them will then go to switching out their breast implants, you know, because they say, like, this worked for me when I was 20, but my 15-year-old son keeps saying, cover that up, mom.
So, I mean, it's the whole life cycle of a patient. you know, I'm happy to travel with them because I'm like, well, I keep waiting for my boobs to come in, but they're, they're obviously not going to come in this lifetime. So, you know, we have a lot of fun. We just, we, it's like, For me, it's like, I like going to work because I'm having a lot of gossip with my patients, so, I, I do a little Botox, I, you know, I learn about trends from them too, because they'll say to me, well, what about this?
What do you think about this? I'm like, I don't really know what this is. So, you know, they, they are my way to kind of to filter what people are interested in learning about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, regarding your growth, do you want to stay small? Do you want to grow? Do you want to bring on an associate so, you can slow down eventually? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Do you have an exit strategy? What's your feeling? Are you going to die at the table, like some surgeons? Or do you have a plan to exit and still have some time to travel? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, I think the thing is, My husband wants to travel. And so, I'm actually actively recruiting a couple of associates, but I think it, you know, I would need to have somebody who could really be able to take advantage of the accreditation and to be able to feel comfortable working in this, this environment because it's small, but the thing is, it's got everything it needs for patient safety and it's got a killer view of the ocean.
So, I mean, Can't, can't you learn to accommodate? We already have the relationships with, with wonderful anesthesia providers. I can't always guarantee that the staff would go to a successor, but if they, if they treat them well, who knows? I have a young staff and the staff are very good at what they do.
And they're very kind and genuine to the patients. And that's why we are, we usually get a lot of internal referrals. We don't do a lot of advertising, but the patients just drag their friends.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've always said, that's how you do it. You can do it the harder way, doing the one and done. Throw a ton of money at advertising, where your staff out trying to find that needle in a haystack of the 100 leads and two of them actually want surgery, or you can just really change your mindset, treat that patient as somebody you're going to know for a lifetime and you will, you could know them for a lifetime.
I am one of those patients. I'm worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Please to somebody because as you get older, if you care about how you look, you're going to keep caring even a lot more as the aging process steps in and the social trends change, and all of the arrows are, are like, the demand is not going anywhere.
It's just increasing. So, I just don't see why most. I just don't see why you don't do it that way. Like, why not build a word-of-mouth practice, the patients love you. Talk about a consultation. How do you like doing a consultation with a complete stranger, who doesn't know you from Joe Schmo, versus the patient who comes from her sister, who loved her result.
She showed it off to her, the other sister and said, Oh my God, I want what she has. Isn't there the biggest difference between that? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: You're definitely pre-qualified if you come from an internal referral. Yeah. But, you know, with telemedicine, like we're doing today. I get a chance to be myself, like yesterday I talked to a young woman and I said, I asked my staff, please schedule virtual consults at the end of the day, because again, I can spend as much time with them and they can pick my brain as much as they want to and I can keep talking till they go zip it.
But the thing is, I see in the sense of a consult, I'm not looking at my clock all the time because My job as a consult, as a consultant, is to really try to give them as much of information that I think they would need to know, and they might not know the questions to do it, so, I still have the same vibe with that, but the thing is, the virtual consults have been fun for me, because I'm like, I don't have to care about if I, if I smell like I've been in the OR, which I have usually been, or if my hair is not perfect, because I'm like, you know, What do you want to talk about today?
I'll keep talking until you tell me. Time out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Regarding marketing, where are these patients coming from? Are you, do you have a big net out to the world or are you trying to stay local or what's your marketing plan? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Good question. I had the girls pull out procedure value hour, how long it takes me to do a case, and what thing, I had them look at referral sources, and how many people were doing these things, and we had, and how many conversions we had from people.
virtual consultations versus in consults, and it used to be about 50 50, but I'm actually converting more on virtual consults now. No kidding. Which is crazy, but I think I'm, I am pretty much what I am, what you see is what you get, whether you're looking at me on the, on the screen or whether you're, you're smelling the fact that I'd be in the office and stuff like that.
So, I mean, I think what we're doing is we're trying to codify it a little bit more. And that's where I think in the stuff, we're about ready to ramp up and bring another administrative stuff because that my women have different talents. I have one woman who's extremely all about the metrics and I think you have to.
As a, as a provider of service, look critically at what you do, what you do well, if it takes you 12 hours to do a facelift, maybe you shouldn't be doing facelifts. If you, if you have a lot of take backs for bleeding from, from breast augs, maybe you shouldn't be doing breast augs or something like that.
But things, we do a lot of that and we look at it quarterly. So, that's part and parcel of our marketing strategy to see how many. Procedures we've done if it's a particular type, whether there's been any problems with complications and that that goes along hand in hand with the, with the credentialing we have to do for the facility, and then where the new leads come from, and we track everything in that sense.
So, I think before we can actually go and do much further as a solo practitioner, I don't want to compromise outcomes by doing it. Thank you. a larger volume. I would rather be, consider myself a bespoke tailor. I'll be more of somebody who's rather than forever 21.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well, and know thyself. If, I mean, as long as I just think it's all about you being comfortable with what you're doing and the services you're providing.
And if you're, I completely agree, I would pick the procedures that you enjoy doing the most. And then if you want to look at it analytically, Just pull that report that says revenues by, revenues by procedure, revenues by zip code, revenues by referral source, and just make your life easier. It's always going to be that 80 20 rule, you know, 80% of your revenues are coming from 20% of somewhere.
The secret is knowing where the somewhere is. A lot of times you just don't even know anymore, but you know what they've made, they forced us into all this technology, which is so, mind blowing that they, they can track everything now. They, every click, every, every, every little thing you're doing can be tracked.
So, I'm glad you have an analytical person in there because somebody needs to want to do that. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah. And she, she's, she's good. She works with the website and I mean, we do, we dabble in a bit in social media, but mostly you see what I like to eat or I travel.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I was going to ask you about social media because it's, you're not, and you can tell you're not.
You're doing a little of it, you know, that's why I know your husband, I love your husband. And you can, and the travel looks fantastic, but is it part of your plan or you're just kind of doing it because you're supposed to do it? Or do you think it's a, a viable marketing channel for you? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I don't think itβs; I don't think it's.
It's, it's our prime lead. Because I think we have a different patient population about a year and a half, two years ago, I asked the girls, I asked them, who is my ideal patient? I really knew the answer at that time. And who is it? It's, it's usually a woman who's between 45 to about 65. And, you know, there's a certain amount of history between us.
We, like I said, we've come from med spa services to doing smaller procedures than going up there. And that's why we, we tend to, our two big leaders are probably eyelids, facelifts and revisional breast and some breast reductions. You see, because I'm not super judgmental. I, my, my father was never much of a breast man.
You know, I, I loved, I like to do breasts. I like to do a lot of breast lifts and breast reductions and just seeing how things change and aesthetic ideals are replaced from the Pam, Anna Nicole Smith and Pamela Anderson's from the late 90s, early 2000s, and now we're looking at the yoga breasts and that's my specialty, so, because the women are more like me and I think we end up having people who like to stretch and like to, I realize they're getting older, but they're okay with that.
And they just say like, you know, I just want to comfort my body. I just don't want to have to have something that, you know, I have to get, spend a lot of time getting dressed on. So, we're a little bit more laid back in that sense. So, that's why I don't really go for the Brazilian butt lifts. And I don't want to, I don't want to look at people's privacy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But that that demographics amazing, like 45 to 65 females. I love the older woman. She's more mature. She cares about your skill and certifications. And yeah, more so, than, you know, did I, did they see you online? They have the financial wherewithal oftentimes more so, than the younger person, but you don't like tummy tucks. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I do, and that's my other little tiny, tiny niche one, because I do have marriage tummy tuck, tummy tuck, so, through the size of a small c section scar. You can, I can actually advance it a little bit more, and I do love toys, so, I bought myself a Hoyer's retractor, which is literally a big, a big upper hand, and so, I can go through a very small incision for people who don't have a lot of skin, they're not heavy, but they've got mostly that splay in their belly that gives them that roundness there.
We can go through. Detach the belly button and then just repair it, put the belly button down and keep the scar really small. So, that's my, my favorite.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, they don't need that hip-to-hip smile line? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: But it's, it's, it's all patient selection in this valley. So, it's, if they're, if they're a big woman, that we're going to lipo the flanks.
We're going to go from hip to hip. But these are the smaller ones. We had a nice lady who came and did telemedicine yesterday and I, I was very relaxed and she booked today. So, I said, look, she goes, I said, what bothers you? She goes, I have a depressed portion of my C section scar. I've had three kids and it makes me embarrassed.
And I'm like, What have you got to be embarrassed? You have an awesome body, you've got good, even skin, you don't have any stretch marks, but you've got that little central pooch around your belly button, and it goes a little bit up there by your ribs, it's good. All you need is just to repair the muscle, pull it down a little bit, done.
Catherine Maley, MBA: If you want my two cents, a scar less, tummy tuck, like I would write a little guide book on it, give it away as a free pdf guide use it as an opt in on your webpage the, the scarless tummy tuck guide five things you want to know about it. I mean, if Everybody who wants a tummy tuck doesn't get one because of that darn big scar.
And at that point, you're not saying it's for everybody, but here like download this, and this is how this is the perfect candidate. I would make a big deal out of that because you're in such a competitive area and a ton of women who want something done without that scar. God, I think that's a big, I think you're onto something there. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I mean, it is, it is, it is. Because I'm small and lazy. I hate to lipo a lot, spider to Brazilian butt lifts. But you could do and we're, I mean, we've done, we did one two weeks ago and she just looks fantastic and she's at the length of the scar. We can control, but it's mostly like we've learned with whether it's deep lane or smash, it's putting the foundation on the deeper layer.
Yeah. And then the skin just. populates over it. But the, I mean, if you selected and you're very honest with the patients and go like, you know, you wouldn't be a good candidate because you have just that much more skin. But it's, it's been, it's worked out well for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I love it. So, we're going to wrap it up now.
Tell, give me a big challenge you had when you were growing your practice. What was the biggest challenge you had? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: I think, I think the big challenge is, is going from girl to woman, woman to boss, and that is a gender specific, specific problem, because I joined an intergenerational practice, so, I still have my mom telling me like, Why are, why are breasts so, big?
But it was a different, different sort of cultural mindset. And then for being able to jump and have the, the courage or maybe the foolhardiness to go ahead and drop off, drop off of insurance and become straight Cosmo. That was, that was a leap of faith. But I've had a lot of good people helping me along the way.
My husband, my staff. You know, I have some good friends in town who are plastic surgeons, you know, and general surgeons who, you know, I talked to and I'm like, well, where do you think this is going? But it's really to, to, to try to be fairly open minded and to have self-knowledge and to know what you can do and what you can do well and what you should step away from.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And then is there anything in particular that you would say to anybody coming up in the industry? Maybe any advice for them? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah, don't build a Taj Mahal before you have the requisite patients in place. Yeah. Because, you know, there have been, in 2003 I was the program chairman for plastic surgery at Hogue.
And I think I, I call myself mother of plastic surgeons, because I think I signed on 12 plastic surgeons in a year. And some of them are no longer here. So, I mean. There's, there's, this is a gorgeous place and there's always a place for you to sit down and make a little farm but you have to be good to the patients and to your staff and to yourself and your family because if you're cranky pants it's, it's going to come through and people will, will like I'm not going there because, you know, she's, she's too self-possessed, pest possessed so, I mean, I think you just have to know what you can, I'll tell young people, you have to sometimes eat what you kill.
But you have to be able to know that you don't have to eat a lot. You, you have to know what your running costs are and, and just, you know, not be shy to say, like I, that's not something that's in my, my experience. I would have to defer to you and to be very honest, because that's how you build a practice.
Right. How much has yoga helped you? Is that still a big part of your life?
Oh yeah, I do four classes a week and I don't do, I don't do the hot yoga like my daughter likes because my husband does, goes with me and he doesn't want to sweat the smell of other people's beer. But it started after my father died because he, he fell down.
The thing is, I used to think that yoga was important for the meditative, the sort of reflective capacities, but it's really important for balance, and it is my go-to drug instead of drinking. I'll take it out of work because, I mean, I, I look around and, and if you ever think about it, who takes care of the plastic surgeon?
Someone's going to be taking care of you because I get so, much so, much little vignettes and life perceptions from my yoga teachers. I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'm going to steal that Yeah, so, I mean, it's made me very happy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, I did yoga several times and I just don't have the personality for it I tried the hot yoga.
I thought it was disgusting. Yeah, we were all like, like their feet are in my face. I just couldn't do that. I couldn't concentrate because it was so, gross. And then I've tried the regular yoga and I just don't have, I just have, I don't know if I have ADD or what, but I hate, it's just too slow for me. I, I like to hike and, and like fly up hills, you know, and I have my dog.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Is it, you've just put your, you've put, you've identified the thing is that you have to move, you have to work on your balance, you have to work on your strength and conditioning because even though I like to operate, I don't like to operate on somebody because they neglected their own health. And I think it's important that people move and I'm about ready to, to shoot a video for yoga and I, I'm not going to go there to try to show what a hotshot I am and how I can stand on my head.
But it's just important that we move as we, we get older because what, what killed my dad was a fall, you see, and it was because he was deconditioned. So, yeah. That's, that's pretty much just if you do Pilates, you do pickleball, you do golf, you hike, do something.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's why I think us, we who live in California, the best thing that ever happened to me, not politically here, but physically and spiritually I came from Chicago and they were just drinking themselves and smoking themselves to death and watching three football games, you know, a Sunday.
And I thought, Oh my god, I got to get out of here, you know and then I moved to California and I started jogging and like, where else can you do that where you can be outside every day the weather permitting, you know, it's just so, much easier here to be healthy. So, I really appreciate that. I got that bug the minute I moved here.
I went, I am now an exerciser.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: See, you're a canny woman and the thing is you take responsibility for your life. You know that things will change. But if you feel like you can make it, that's the existential existentialist challenge, do something so, you can make things better for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you have the cutest dog on the planet?
Please tell me he's still around.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: That's my brother's dog. I only, I only have partial ownership on him, but he's, he is, he's a, he's a shameless scrounger.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He is so, funny in Instagram. He's like the, like photogenic. What kind of dog is it?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: He's an English bulldog. And believe me, he's had a lot of cosmetic surgery.
He's had a quad bluff. He's had a uvular palatoplasty. He's been fixed. He's had a, he's had something to do with his, his plumbing, his male plumbing. So, I don't think it was lengthening. I think it was putting the lipstick back in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, he's adorable. So, the last question is the fun one. Tell us something we don't know about you. How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: It's probably in the public domain. I'm a shameless Golden State Warriors fan.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I did see that somewhere. That's so, funny. Yeah. Where did that come from? How did this impact your journey from commodities trader to surgeon?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Because my daughter was a water polo player at Cal Berkeley. And when she quit playing, I had to watch something, you know, like fake, fake, shoot, drive, drive, fake, fake, shoot.
So, I, I think in a way. Why I love, I love the sports part, and I used to watch the Sixers when I lived in Philadelphia, but I think it's something about the little chemistry of this team and the fact that they take their lumps. And that's what we all have to do at the end of the day. I just finished watching Underrated with Steph Curry yesterday.
But it has to do is that sometimes we're not always winners. Sometimes when we get to the top of the mountain, and then we crash down to the bottom of the valley. But it is that, it is that idea of how you can reorganize, and you can, you can embrace your teammate, or your patient, or your staff member, and your anesthesiologist, and you can regroup.
And if it's meaningful, you'll, you can make it work. And you may never be up at the top of the mountain again, but you can do something, and you have a certain amount of satisfaction there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. The analogy there on the teamwork thing. If you, the, the more I learn how to, when you add staff to your life, it's such a new concept.
You didn't go to school for that. You had no leadership courses at all. And you have to learn that on the fly. The sooner you learn that it's a team. It's not them against you. It's not, you know, ah, so, much to that. But if you can get that teamwork down, just the analogy is just like a sports team.
Nobody's the big prima Donna. They are for a minute, but everyone's got to be helping them. So, anyway if anybody wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do so?
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Through our either by phone, we, we are on that. We aren't set up to have a virtual appointment. Boyden said, so, you still have to talk to a real human being.
So, we're, we're the Newport Medical Plaza. Our number is (949) 644-1400, or you can visit our website at www.ChongMD.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: www.ChongMD.com. Your name just keeps throwing me off. You, you, you, you are you are like the United Nations, huh? You've been around.
Lavinia K. Chong, MD: Yeah. You know what? Being married to an Englishman, we are, we are literally two days.
different. He's two days my senior. So, we, we do, we are like twins and we've grown up together, but thank God, he keeps me grounded.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, well, well, he's amazing. Hang on to him for sure. All right.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Chong went from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Chong, you can reach out to her website at, www.ChongMD.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Chong for sharing her journey of going from being a commodities trader to becoming a surgeon.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βCommodities Trader to Surgeon β with Lavinia K. Chong, MDβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Doctor Jerry Chidester is booked out 2 years.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Booked Out 2 Years β with Jerry Chidester, MD".
Itβs common for cosmetic practices to grow slowly. The surgeon needs time to get their footing and try different things to see what works to attract patients and build a reputation and following.
And sometimes, that slow burn ignites and creates unforeseen demand and unexpected growth.
Thatβs what happened to my latest Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest Dr. Jerry Chidester (known by his patients as Dr. Chiddy) is a board-certified plastic surgeon in solo practice in Salt Lake City, Utah, and is booked out 2 years.
In a very short time, Dr. Chidester has over 50K IG followers, a 2-year wait list, 208 google reviews at 4.9 rating, associates and already did one build-out, with big plans to expand even more β all while being 2 years booked out.
And, on the personal front, he is raising 3 kids with his wife Mindee (also his high school sweetheart) who is helping him grow their empire.
Listen in as he explains how heβs doing it. Even though he makes it look easy now, he is really a 10-year overnight success ;-)
Visit Dr. Chidester's website P.S. Please subscribe!
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Transcript:
Booked Out 2 Years β with Jerry Chidester, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Doctor Jerry Chidester is booked out 2 years. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
And I'm very excited about today's guest whoβs booked out 2 years. He's very unusual, very different than like the normal say. So, today's guest is Dr. Jerry Chidester, who's a board-certified plastic surgeon in Salt Lake City, Utah. Now, he performs plastic and reconstructive surgeries for the hand, body, and face in his accredited Quad ASF surgical facility.
Now, in a very short time, Dr. Chidester has over 50,000 Instagram followers and a very long waiting list. And it wasn't easy. So, we're going to talk about how he got there already. And then on a personal front, I just love this. He married his high school sweetheart, Mindy, and she's super involved. I feel like I know her because I've watched so, much of their social media.
He's very authentic about that. And on top of everything that he's doing right now, He's also raising three children who are absolutely adorable and look just like him. And he's building this empire with being booked out 2 years that we're going to talk about.
So, Dr. Chidester, thank you so, much for coming on Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Jerry Chidester, MD: Thank you so, much for having me. I'm glad we got to connect again. And that was finally worked out for both of us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, it's been like over a year. We've been trying to do this. So, let's just start with your name. Who thought this was a good idea to call you βChidesterβ. I struggled with that name. When they were coming over on the boat, couldn't they have simplified it or what? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Is there a... Yeah, it's English. So, it comes from Chichester, you know, like the Manchester, Lancaster. So, Chichester, England, it's a city. It's a yachting town. I've never been there. I've heard it's nice. But yeah, I think when they came through, you know Ellis Island, they just thought, Hey, I'll just turn the CH to a D.
So, it became Chidester and stuck ever since. And you know, some people say Chydester, Chydster. I have so, many misspellings. It's unreal.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, so, you were smart enough. Who decided to start calling you Dr. Chiddy because that was brilliant. That I can say easily. And I'm sure that's what your patients are saying.
Who, how, who thought of that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, it actually goes back to high school. So, I had a friend, you know, the, the old show, "Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang". So, my friends called me Chiddy and I honestly, I didn't love that name when I was in high school. I didn't like it, but yeah, after, you know, finding, having patience and no one could say my last name or spell it kind of, I brought that back.
I was like, let's go by Chiddy. Cause I had a friend who was trying to help me rebrand when I was. You know, updating my Instagram, he said, we need a name that like sticks for people, you know, and he was trying to say like Utah surgeon, and we found all these different names, but really wanted to just brand it for myself.
And so, we went with Dr. Chiddy. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm so, glad you did that because I, we can all say Chiddy. We cannot say βChidisterβ.
Jerry Chidester, MD: I don't even call myself that now. I forget that that's my first last name.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, this was super interesting. I normally ask you, so, how did you get interested in plastic surgery? And somehow as a kid, you were in Saudi Arabia. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
So, tell us that story. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. My dad's a dentist. He retired last year. He's a general dentist. And when I was little, I think I was about six or seven years old. I have three younger sisters. So, I'm the oldest of four kids. My mom's from Thailand, you know, so, we had lived in Thailand for a little bit.
My dad's from Salt Lake city, so, he had opened a practice here in Utah, but he wanted to be. A little adventurous, try something new. So, in the late 80s, he took a job with the royal family in Saudi Arabia. So, we all moved there. Again, I was like six or seven. I lived there for most of my childhood. I came back when I was in middle school, but I love that experience.
I went to international school. All my friends were from, you know, all over the world. So, I think early on, I just was exposed to a lot of different cultures, religions, you know, backgrounds, ideas, beliefs. And, and I grew up on this hospital compound. So, all I like. All I saw was this hospital. My friends, parents were all doctors.
And so, kind of groomed me, I think, to think that that's what I wanted to be. It was a doctor, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. I really believe that all of us, especially Americans need to travel abroad to get a bigger perspective and understand the pros and cons and appreciate. more what they have quite frankly.
So, let's talk about your journey to private practice because first of all, you don't look old enough to be a surgeon, quite frankly. And then I found out you had a 14-year-old. So, that really threw me off. So, so, I'm just getting older because now everyone's starting to look a lot younger, but it sounds like you were in LA. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Like where did you go? Where was your fellowship? And then how did you end up back in Salt Lake City? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, my wife and I went to high school together in Utah, just to go back a little bit. And her family's here. My family's here. I did undergraduate and medical school studies up at the university of Utah.
So, actually, you know, initially I thought we were going to stay in Utah, but as you know, the residency match for, you know, plastic surgery residency, there's not a lot of programs around the country. It's very competitive. So, we ended up going, one of my top places was Loma Linda in Southern California.
So, I did six years of my plastic surgery training integrated plastics in Loma Linda. And then at that time I thought I really wanted to stay in academics. I wanted to do upper extremity and hand reconstructive surgery and I still love it. But yeah, I ended up doing a fellowship, my number one pick for fellowship at USC. So, it's actually orthopedic hand.
an upper extremity fellowship. So, we moved to LA from Loma Linda. So, we just went west about 60 miles. And so, I was there for a year and we lived in South Pasadena. We loved it. And I actually had several job offers in Southern California. And actually, we were intending on staying there. And I thought I saw myself as a just full-on hand surgeon initially.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Like you were going to stay in reconstructive? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, that's, that was my plan originally. And as I was in fellowship training, my mom called me, you know, my mom's very persuasive, you know, she's a short Asian Thai lady. And she's like, Jerry, so, you have to at least try to look for a job in Utah. Cause I wasn't even looking.
And I said, okay, mom, for you, I will look. She's like, well one of your friends, actually, Dr. Howland, who you mentioned earlier he was at a practice here and, and they were looking to add a surgeon. He's like, so, she's like, would you at least interview with him? Cause he had gone to my mom's restaurant.
I was like, hey, see if Jerry, I knew, I knew Nick. And so, she's like, hey, see if he would want to come out and interview. And so, at the same time, one of my other friends from medical school had called me and said, Hey, I have a friend here. He's in Salt Lake. He's looking to hire a plastic surgeon. And so, I had those two offers or, you know, opportunities.
And so, I said, look, let's at least look, you know, we were, we were planning on staying in California. And I came out on one day, interviewed at both places. And I just, I really felt like we needed to be back here and it just worked. Did you have kids yet? Yeah. So, we had our, our son, I think I was almost, we were almost 20.
I was 20 years old. We had our son we were in medical school. So, I was in my third year. So, he was born like right when I started my third year was where we go to all the rotations. So, he's born in July. He just had his 14th birthday. And then our daughter who's 12, she was born in my fourth year of medical school.
And then we foster adopted our youngest. So, he's six. So, we were in LA when we adopted him. So, he just had, we had something called McKay Day. His name is McKay. He had McKay Day yesterday. It was our five-year kind of anniversary for adopting him. So, we kind of celebrated yesterday. But yeah, so, that's how we have our three kids.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my gosh. All right. What year did you get back to Utah? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I came here, I've been here five years now, so, August of 2018 I started private practice. So, it's been almost five years.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you literally came back to Utah and you didn't join those other practices, you decided to go out on your own? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I actually did.
So, when I first came, I joined one of, Two practices. I joined a facial plastic surgeon. I was there for about a year and a half. So, at that time I was doing handed a lot of hand surgery, a lot of recon traumas, I was building my aesthetic practice, but I was also trying to build that aesthetic practice.
So, I kind of shifted gears from what I was planning in Los Angeles to when I came here, I knew I wanted to do private practice aesthetics, but I was still doing recon and hand. So, I had this kind of bipolar dual practice. I had a lot of friends, one of my friends in Arizona, Dr. Olson, Josh Olson. He's like, there's no way you're going to be able to maintain both.
And I was like, watch me. I'm one of those people. I was like, I'm going to show you. And he was right. I couldn't do it. I couldn't take call at night. You know, I'd come in, I'd be up all-night doing hand trauma. And then I roll in for my scheduled mommy makeover at 6 30 AM. And I just, I felt like I was. not giving 100% to all my patients.
And I just, I never want that to be the case. And so, I had to make that hard decision to really just shift to aesthetic practice. But I did start with a facial plastic surgeon in 2018. And so, I was there until I did all my boards collections. I became board certified. And then I started my practice Jerry Chidester MD in January of 2020.
So, like two months before COVID, I had no idea that was going to happen, but we just went on our own. It was very scary because we had no money. We had nothing. And then that happened. So, that was really, really scary.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you run back to recon or did you stay focused on your medic or what did you do? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I, well, I kind of did both still.
So, I started doing some breast reconstruction. I hadn't done a ton. I was doing some, but I started doing some for local hospital because they had lost their reconstructive plastic surgeon. So, I was doing some and then I did take, I was still taking hand call at the time. But at that point my practice was starting to grow, you know, social media, I've been doing it for almost two years.
And I'd started to build this internal referral network through social media and a lot of patients kind of referring. And so, we were already kind of, you know, going up and then during COVID, you know, we had to shut our doors obviously for six weeks, couldn't operate. So, I was taking call at that time, but you know, I made the hard decision and we had six employees.
It was me and then our six employees and I luckily got a PPP loan. And so, I approached all of them. I said, look, we cannot shut down. It's a lot of the other offices furloughed their employees and just were shut down for six weeks, took a vacation. I told them, look, I can't do that. We won't open our doors again.
I don't have the funds. And so, I got that loan and I paid everybody and we did virtual consults during that time. Cause people wanted to still be seen and, you know, wanted to do it. They just couldn't come in. And we did a virtual grand opening in April, right at the beginning of April. And that day we booked 50 surgeries on one day.
And that β
Catherine Maley, MBA: Whoa, so, you're on zoom doing this? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yes. Yes. So, where are you at facing? Well, we have we have simplest so, we could do video HIPAA compliant, you know video chat. At that time though, you're allowed to pretty much do anything faced and we did, we did simplest, but 50 people to show up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What did you do? A webinar, like a patient educational event? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: So, what happened was people had, I'd already seen a bunch of people. So, a lot of them are even hand booked. And so, we had said, okay, if you put, you know, 500 down, we'll put another 500 towards surgery. And then I still had to see them in person. So, I literally, once we opened it, we had them all come back in and I saw them all in person.
But yeah, and I was, It was awesome. And so, it really helped one to help me realize like, okay, like people are not at that time, weren't afraid of, you know, the economy and that's obviously changed quite a bit, but I mean, lucky for us because I don't think we would have stayed open, you know, had that not happened, soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you enjoyed that post COVID surge. That was insane. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, honestly, it hasn't let up. It's, it's different, but it's still, like I said, it's very, very busy. You know, there's no summers, there's no winters, it's all busy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, I hear you have a really long waiting list. Like, how long is it? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: You know, I used to hate talking about it because, you know, it made me.
feel like one either I was a very inefficient surgeon or a lot of people do tell me that either you don't operate enough or you don't charge enough, you know, and I, so, I've raised my prices. I, I still want to be an accessible surgeon. I don't want to be that person that's charging and that's fine if they want to do that, but I don't charge 150,000 for my makeover.
I want to be reasonable. You know, my patients are, are, you know, our demographic here of, you know, people that are doing well, but I don't want to just, you know, gouge people. So, you know, I would say our prices are fair. I, I, I operate four to five days a week, you know, we do a lot of cases every month, but yeah, it's, it's a two years out for surgery.
But I don't book out. So, like, you know, I, I like want to have a life and not burn out. It's all about balance. And so, last year was the first year I actually took off a week, a quarter because, you know, my coordinator was like, you're going to burn out and you're going to do no surgeries if you don't, you know, take a break.
And so, it's been nice, like for our family, you know, we block in time for a spring break or fall break and we do trips. I tried the first year in 2021, the first time I took a week off, I tried to stay local and I ended up in the office every day. I was seeing patients and that was a whole, that was one of my weeks of the year.
And so, we made a decision. We have to be out of town. We take time off. But yeah, even with that, you know, I think it's important to take time off, especially, you know, if you're a new practice, whatever, once you get to that point, we can do it. I think it's really important because you're going to burn out.
But yeah, we operate long days a lot of days and I love it. I'm just very passionate about it. And so, I just enjoy seeing, you know, what the things that we can do as plastic surgeons to really help people. So, it's amazing for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, on your Instagram, it looks like you did a build out of your current office. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Like, did you already have an office and a build and a surgery center and then you moved and built that out? Or what was that first construction that you were doing? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Okay, yeah, so, kind of how it went. You know, I left that original practice and I actually leased a small, very small space. It was like maybe 1300 square feet from another plastic surgeon in the, in a building here locally.
And so, very small office had a few clinic rooms. But then we grew pretty quickly. So, I ended up leasing more space from him. We kind of doubled our space. And then I brought on another surgeon. I have an associate surgeon that works with me. So, that was in 2021. And we kept growing and then we ran out of space there and we wanted to open a med spot at that point.
And then, and in that building, I was, And they already had a medical spa, you know, I wanted to be nice. I don't want to open another competing spa in the same building. So, we decided to then move, you know, it's a hard decision because at all at the same time, we're building a building. I have a few partners we're building.
It's a, it's like 75,000 square feet. It's four stories. We're going to occupy the lower level. So, 20,000 square feet for the ORs, like five ORs, it's going to be an accredited surgery center. And then 20,000 for the clinic and spa. And then the other two floors are our partners. They do other things, but so, we were building that, but then we were outgrowing our small space.
So, we ended up moving to another space currently, where we lease month to month. We opened a spa, more space, and we're already outgrowing that. We added another surge as there's three of us now. So, luckily, I kept my original space. So, we have kind of two spaces in the works and then our main space. So, eventually we'll all move to the mothership, which will hopefully be done next April, May.
But yeah, in terms of the OR, I currently, I work at an accredited facility, but I don't own that one. I, I, I, you know, red space or how far away is it from your office? Well, it's still it's in the same building that my original office was in. I just go downstairs. So, it's just down the street from our current office.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, they're not for those of you who are interested in looking at this empire that he's building. You need to go to his Instagram. I think it's Dr. Chiddy, you know, at Dr. Chiddy. The thing is massive. So, let's back up on that one. So, there were some partners. What do you mean by partners who own who's going to own this thing and who's going to manage it? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, so, there's me there's another group, this Capital Financial Group, so, they're one of the main owners, the landowner, the location is beautiful, you know, the southern end of Salt Lake Valley, it's up on this mountain, and it overlooks, it overlooks currently a prison, but the prison's being torn out, they're planning on building a city, another city right there, they're kind of, Salt Lake's trying to do this, like, Twin Cities thing where you have Salt Lake downtown, and then on the opposite end of the valley is this new city.
So, we're kind of right above that new location but the landowner, he's one of the main owners because, you know, for years people had approached him about building on this plot and he refused it. So, for whatever reason, he was excited to be a part of this project.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Why did you get that? Because that's an opportunity.
Your views are amazing. Thereβre huge snow cap mountains. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I definitely credit. Well, actually one of my friends from high school. So, it's interesting here, you know, it's all like a very small community. When I had left my original practice in 2019, 2020, I contacted one of my, I saw his name, my friend, he's a commercial real estate agent and works with the project management company.
It's called thrive and his name's Greg Goff. And I said, I called Greg, I saw his name on the billboards, like Greg, I need your help. And you might remember me from high school, but I'm looking to lease some space. And eventually I want to build a space. And so, he helped me find some space in South Jordan where we're currently out.
At, and then I kind of talked to him about. building my own building. And so, he gave me two options. He said, I'm going to take you to this place. It's smaller. And he took us to a plot of land is very beautiful. And we could have had our own building, just, you know, freestanding building. And then he's like, but I have to show you another location.
So, he took me up to the hill where we were building is now. And he took me out on there. stood there and I just looked out and I just like, I have to be here. Like there, I'm like, this is where I need to be just had that feeling, you know you know, Brigham young, you know, Brigham young, he's the one that came and settled for the Mormons, you know, into the Salt Lake Valley when he came and he saw the valley, he came, he said, this is the place, you know, I kind of felt like, this is the place like for our practice.
And so, I was like, I'm going to do whatever it takes. So, I'm really excited to be in this location because I just felt it's very iconic. I feel like, you know, what we're trying to build as a brand and as a company is something very unique and special. And I think the location for one is going to reflect that in terms of being a location that's just very inviting and opening for all people.
Whether you're a plastic surgeon, you want to learn more if you're an esthetician, if you're an injector, you know, we really want to bring all these walks of life together to really kind of learn and grow from each other. And that's kind of our plan. And that're my associate's plans as they become partners.
And we all see that together. And so, it's been really nice to, to have that vision.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The 75,000 square feet. How many of those feet are you going to take? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: So, we're occupying like just over half, like 40,000 square feet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then who's, who else is going to be in there? Is it going to be like plastic surgery, like a center, a training center? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, our, our main level will be that it's, it's a clinic where it has a lot of. So, things that, you know, even like laser trainings, research and all that stuff, the lower level is a surgery center. So, that's a five OR suite. And then there's other space too, that we can utilize for other things. And then upstairs is a financial group.
And then on the top level is actually more of like there's office space and then a reception center. So, it's kind of a draw because the low, the view is amazing. So, it's really going to bring a lot of, you know, all walks of life. But and then we have a pad out front. We're building like a 18,000 square foot building.
That's going to be more medical. So, like, you know. Cosmetic dentistry, possibly a pharmacy and some other things that are kind of associated with what we do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, okay. So, is this private equity money? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: No, it's land development people. I mean, I put, you know, one thing I did, one thing I've, I've learned is I put all of my money back into my business.
My I sat down with a really good, another good friend from high school. He's Lieutenant Colonel in the army, but he does a lot of leadership training and he started his own company that he consults on. So, he and I created our own company to consult on plastic surgeons trying to do something similar.
So, we worked together on that, but he helped me really establish a culture for our business. And I think that was really, really important to really from the beginning set a vision, you know, mission statement, obviously, but really set up the culture for our business. And we sat down and made a roadmap.
We said, you know, at one year, three-year, five-year, 10 year, where do we see our business? And I had seen, you know, my vision was a gift. Five years into practice to start to look into having our own building and everything was really accelerated, you know, like, you know, we started doing that at two years.
And so, it was really, I recommend for a lot of plastic surgeons to like do that. I think it's really important. Anytime I consult with other plastic surgeons, I say, you know, really write these things down, even your personal life. Like I wrote down personal goals, wrote down when my kids are graduating and, you know, call it all these things just to really map it out.
Cause it's, it's going to be there. You just have to map it out. But I think once you kind of grasp that you're kind of able to do these things you know, piecemeal a step at a time. And so, yeah, that's the vision I had back then with him. And, and I've just kind of seen that carry through the last, but you know, three years.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The pivotal point is you having zero money to 75,000 square feet with huge grandiose plans.
In less than two years. Like, how did that happen? Do you think it's just hanging around with big thinkers and it makes you think bigger? Did you always think like that? Where is that big mindset coming from? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, so, oh, sorry, what I was going to say, and a second ago too, I'm going to answer that. I saved all my money.
So, everything I brought into the business, all that, all the two year wait, all the surgery, I saved. And that's what I put towards the building for our part. But yeah, I think as... As you surround yourself, like, as I did, you know, starting to talk to people that you're like minded or way more advanced and more knowledgeable than me to like, just try to soak up something from them is, was key.
Like I said, so, hanging out with one of my friends who's leadership and I've, and I've done podcasts with other people locally who are just these entrepreneurs just. amazing, successful people and like picking their brains and learning from them. You know, one thing I've learned as a plastic surgeon, I'm not a businessman.
I do not know what I'm doing. I don't have an MBA. I, you know, there are surgeons that do, I don't. And so, I don't, I don't pretend to know what I'm doing in that aspect. So, I really rely on people who are much more intelligent than me at what they do. You know, to help guide me because and I've seen people and surgeons who think they can do all of it, you know, that, you know, sometimes you have an ego and you just think, oh, I'm, I'm smart.
I can do surgery. Well, I can do business. No, honestly, I don't think it's that way at all. You know, I feel like I'm very you know, Say blessed to be able to have hands to do surgery. But I, again, I really rely on people that know what they're doing. And so, I think my vision grew, you know, I had done that original kind of vision board in the beginning during COVID, but as I saw things happening, it really like opened my mind and I said, wow, like I can do more than this.
And then as I brought on, you know, Dr. Garlick, my first associate, soon to be partner you know, he had big visions too, and that helped, you know, it's like very synergistic to have people around you that have other ideas that can build on each other. And then our new associate, Dr. Brian Pifer, who's similar, he has an MBA actually, so, he's very...
He's very diverse in these things. So, finding people that are like minded and have other friends that I'm working with it's just been amazing for me to see, you know, the potential that I have, but also our employees and kind of the vision opening it up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've spent some time in Utah and I don't, I think there's something in the water because there are so, many entrepreneurs there. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
And, and also you live clean, you know, like everyone's out partying and you guys are working. I honestly, like I used to a million years ago, I used to work for the Silicon Valley with a startup and all the call centers were in Utah because they were the only people who showed up when they were supposed to, they did a great job.
They were a good, friendly, friendliest people I've ever met. And I I'm fascinated by that religion, by the way, that, that is so, interesting. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: It really is very You know, the religion, the culture are very, you know, much alike here. And I think, you know, if you look at like the state flag, it has a beehive on it and bees and, you know, kind of the symbol of the state was like, you know, busy, busy, busy bees, working bees, you know, like, and I think everyone here, there is that kind of industrial, like, you know, put your, you know, put your head to the grind or the whatever the term is, you know, put your head down.
But yeah, and I think that's what I grew up with. I saw my, my dad was that way. He's a hard worker. My mom very much so. She owns a Thai restaurant here and she's been doing that for 17 years. She's, you know, in her upper 60s and she's every day there, you know, she's working 60 hours a week still. And so, I feel like a lot of that work ethic came, you know, from my parents and I started working when I was 16.
I never did not have a job. I worked in some of those call centers you talked about locally when I was in college. Yeah, and I really think so. And like you said, the clean living and all that. So, I think a lot, you know, I tell a lot of my friends, this really is like a very special place because there's a lot of young, healthy people, well-educated you know, with education comes, you know, pretty decent jobs.
Again, they're not, they don't have a lot of expense. We'll have a lot of expendable income because they're not using it on, you know, like they're not gambling or other things. And so, they're doing surgery and it's a very, very unique place for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Although I have noticed you guys like tattoos. Have you noticed that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I don't have any, but I, I like tattoos. Yeah, there's a lot of tattoos, a lot of good tattoo artists locally too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That's so, interesting because I thought, huh, maybe that is their little kryptonite. You know, I'm going to get a tattoo. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I can't decide on one that I like enough that I would get on my body, but you know.
It's so, darn permanent, you know? Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, all right. So, back to the surgeons that you're bringing on board, you're, it sounds like you have more plans to grow here. Are you, are you trying to fill this place with a lot of surgeons as in you're going to be the owner, or are you trying to build this kind of partnership where you buy in and exit later? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
What's your plan there with other surgeons?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. This is also kind of evolved as I've been in practice because when I got out of that original business relationship, you know, it can be very traumatizing when you leave a relationship and it just doesn't end well which that one unfortunately did not.
I learned a lot, but I was not looking for any partners and I thought, you know, for the rest of my life, like my wife's going to be, you know, by my side, you know, I trust her and we're going to work together. But as, yeah. You know, as I kind of opened up and kind of saw our potential because we're trying to figure out how do we, you know, we have a two year wait list.
I can't do all these surgeries. You can't do 1200 people, you know, there's going to be five years out. So, I kind of opened my mind and be like, okay, I have to find someone I trust, you know, that I can work with, but eventually be a partner because I also don't see a relationship with another surgeon or surgeons where we don't all have equal amount of say, you know, and I felt that's something I learned in my first place.
And so, I think my, my mindset, it really is like. I want to be equal with other people that are like minded and make those decisions together. So, in bringing on the two searches I have you know, how we've written things up is, yeah, they have the opportunity to become a full partner. And, you know, I, I want to be on a level where I can step away for a week and I can trust them and they're going to run the business, you know Just as well as I could.
And so, I don't see myself being superior to anybody. I don't even see myself being superior to my employees, quite honestly, as my teammates. I own the place, sure, and the, you know, the risk is on me, but, you know, no one's better than each other. And, you know, there is the mentality of, like, everyone's expendable.
And I don't like that at all. I think if you're hiring people that you feel are expendable, then I think you're doing something That's probably not the best thing for your business. So, you know, when we hire, I look at it as like this, like in medical school, it's really hard to get into, but once you're in, they do everything to keep you there.
Like literally they'll do everything right. Law school. It's like, come on in, pay us money, but we don't care if you stick around or fail. We really don't care. Right. There's kind of these. Two trains of thought in terms of education. And I feel that way for business. I think you can look at your employees as expendable, but if you look through that lens, you will view them differently.
You will treat them differently and they see that and they won't value your business and your vision as much. And so, my mentality has been, you know, I do my best to keep our employees. And so, early on, we try to do everything we can to vet those. people that we bring on because, you know, it's like a family and we're going to bring people in.
We'll make sure that we're all, you know, like minded, you know, at least on a level where we can get along. You don't have to like think the same, but you know, culturally we fit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree. I think your area is different though because of the Mormonism because, or do you have to be a Mormon to work for you? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Oh, no, no, religion is not. No, no, no, not that way. Culture like, like, more like, like, like hardworking or like, you know, being honest and we have, we have all our cultural statements on our wall, you know, it's like, you know, honest and open thinking, you know, accepting positive and reinforcement and feedback, you know, those types of cultures, not like, you know, you have to be more, okay.
You can be whatever you want. I mean, I grew up in Saudi Arabia. I was the only Mormon. I had all Muslim and, you know, Hindi friends. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like the diversity in that way for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The staffing issue has become a pretty big issue post COVID. And so, I don't know if it's the chicken or the egg, but a lot of surgeons are now very gun shy about making these employees friends and family, you know, it because they've, they're getting burned.
And then, then you say, well, it was at your attitude. Was it, was it the employee's attitude? And now you're, you're marred by that. Like, I don't know, but it's become much more of a challenge. Have you noticed that? Or. Yeah. Or your workforce there has? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I mean, yeah, I think just in any area there's going to be some turnover, you know, and, and I think what we've noticed more so, as people want to get more education and so, sometimes that education leads them, you know, they have to go back to school full time, you know, so.
We have medical assistants who want to become nurses and then become nurse practitioners. And so, I, I've seen that growth happen with some of our people in clinic, you know on the esthetician side in the spa. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely, I just see that, you know, locally it was a lot of turnover and a lot of I mean called incest, but people moving around, you know, and I think that's part of, like you said, just the business in general.
But I think we actually have a pretty good, a really good retention rate, but again, it's. You can't control everybody's attitudes and you know like you try to find people that match the culture and system that you're, you know, you're kind of trying to build together but it's hard you know it's work and I agree I think whatever it was since COVID or, you know, the different demographics of people working I'm not sure what it is but Yeah, some people just aren't as invested in wanting to work.
It's, it's, it's weird, you know, like for example, we're trying to hire another medical assistant and, you know, two people from indeed just don't even show up for an interview, like how, how do you just not show for an interview that you scheduled, I don't get it. I'm, I'm always surprised by that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I often do like a FaceTime with people first before we, you know, we don't need to get that far.
Let me just see if you can show up for that, you know, and I'm just so, surprised how many no shows there.
Jerry Chidester, MD: I almost didn't show up for your this though! So, I'm just kidding.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't dig it personally anymore.
Jerry Chidester, MD: I was on the freeway.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But in your world on doesn't the staff have to dance? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I mean, yeah, that, that technically is a requirement.
It's an unspoken requirement, but no, we're actually originally when I, some of the front desk that I hired, you know, well, it wasn't required, but I said, Hey, come in this Tik TOK, you know, we were doing it as a front desk dance and I wasn't as busy back then, you know, so, I don't get as much opportunity to do that now, but yeah, that'sβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Let's talk more about that in a minute, but I, it just seems to me.
It was just knowing you like you better know how to dance if you work there because you're going to be it helps, you're going to be. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, you're going to be called in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the, so, the staff tips, how are you keeping them motivated, are you doing it with money with events with first with thanks so, much team. How are you doing? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, honestly, we've tried all of it. I'm sure a lot of other surgeons have too, you know, and I think it evolves because your team evolves, right, not just the people that are in it, but the size of the team. And so, things change, you know, early on, like we would do these are really nice, you know, dinners, like, you know, really nice restaurant for the holidays.
And then also in your team is now 60 people with their spouse and you're like, okay, well, we probably can't do as nice want to do it nicely. But you know, you said the change a little bit right so, I think team size changes some of those dynamics I think the interaction between employees change but yeah, we've always tried we've tried financial incentives you say hey, all right, if we book this number of surges month you guys get this actual cash bonus, you know we tried individuals we've tried team bonuses.
We, you know, we've tried. Everything. And so, it constantly changes. I don't think there's a right answer for all of it again, because what we do today is not the same as what we did even last year. So, yeah, currently, and the needs change. So, like, you know, my books, I've closed my books a year and a half ago.
So, before we used to give incentive if you booked a surgery, you know, a consult, great, but guess what? I'm not booking consults. So, we had to change that. So, now it's like, okay, if people book, if you get someone that wants to see Dr. Chidester, Dr. Chiddy, over to see Dr. Pfeiffer, Dr. Garlick. Great, you get a bonus on front desk.
So, we've had to change, you know, incentives. And so, we do that. Yeah, we definitely do, you know, all the perks. So, like on the spa side, you know, they get, you know, discounts on products, but also on injections. We have injection days. Our nurse injector will do that. They have VIP friends and family. So, their friends and family will come and get spa perks.
You know on the surgery side, you know, certain things that we can do safely and ethically. And then yeah, we do, we try to show our appreciation, whether it's a get together, a gathering, you know, once in a while. We were trying to get to go to see this Barbie movie and rent out a movie theater, but the Cinemark doesn't do it anymore.
But yeah, so, we're trying different things to, to do that team building. But you know, in an environment where it's outside of work and where we can say, look, and you know, some people give you the advice of you should never be Your friends with your employees. And I'll be honest, like I can say we're, we are a family, but I do try to maintain a professional relationship with them.
But at the day, like I'm a, I feel like I'm a soft heart person. Like, again, I don't see myself better than them. We're a team and we're a family. And so, that's, that's how I treat my staff and it seems to work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. The biggest mistake, just give me one big mistake you have made because you have grown so, fast.
Well, give me one. That's cost you time, money or sleepless nights. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I mean, I would say, you know, putting a lot of money into like build out. So, like in a space that's not yours to renovate, I mean, like our first space, I guess it was a very small space, you know, 12β1300 square feet, but, you know, it used to be like a neurology office.
It smelled like nerves and feet. And so, we really had to change that vibe, you know, and some of my first patients still to this day, it kind of teased me like, I remember when you had all the nerve thing because I shared the space with us and he was a great. Great neurologist. But yeah, like just, you know, so, we built it out to try and make it our space, but then a year and a half later we're moving, you know, and so, like, okay, that, you know, 75,000, a hundred thousand dollars you put into a leased space.
Well, guess what? Some other person's using that now. The return of investment that I don't know, right. It probably wasn't so, good. So, that's one thing. And so, on our new space, we moved to, I really reduced the amount that we put into it because we knew we were building our own building, which is going to cost a lot more.
So, we try to keep it very clean and simple. Make it look like it's ours, but, you know, be very careful on what you spend because it's just not worth it, you know in the end another big mistake is just rushing to buy. Medical devices, you know, like you get so, hyped up, you go to these conferences and they're like, Oh man, it's the best laser.
It's the best this and that. And really like stepping back and saying, looking at the numbers, like really, you should look at it from a business perspective, you know, and there's some really good companies out there that you can consult with that have service. I can tell you like; you know, how much did you make off this device?
Per hour, you know, like who are you going to pay to do this? What space are you going to put this in? How much do you need to make to make it worth it? And is it worth it? And so, there are companies that can do that if you don't know how to calculate that yourself, but that was a hard lesson to learn. You know, we've, we've bought some devices and I'm sure everybody's done this where we then turn around and had to sell it or, you know, or it doesn't work or whatever it is.
There's another, I think. The mistake that I've made. I mean, yes, it's a financial mistake. Was it like, did it hurt our business? I mean, not really, but yeah, I mean, that could have been put towards other things, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I just gave a talk on that in Boston this past weekend and it was all the things to consider.
And what happens is you're at that meeting and your friend says, and he's probably trying to justify him buying it said, Oh my God, I love this machine. It's a money maker for me. And then you're like, really? Okay. And my first thought is. Who's going to run the thing and where are the patients going to come from?
Has anyone even thought about the marketing side of this? It's not going to happen on its own. Who's got a plan to make sure this thing stays busy. And then everybody claims the salesperson. And frankly, it's, it's you abruptly jumping to the, to that shiny object thing. Don't we all, doesn't it feel so, good when you look at a machine and say, oh my God.
This is going to change everything, you know, get a nurse injector or a nurse or an esthetician. She's going to run it. I don't have to deal with it. This thing is going to be amazing. And it never is, you know, it just, it just never is. But we always bite that apple. Don't we? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: You're right. So, that's great.
Yeah. So, but there are so, many, I wish I would've listened to your talk, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I should, I should have taped it because, well, actually, you know what, I'll do a blog post on it or a video because there's so, many things to consider, but I won't go into that now. But anyway, just let me go back to staff for a second.
Are you actually managing staff or did you hire a COO or an HR who, like, how many people are we talking about that are going to be working in this? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, currently, you know, between our spa and our clinic, we have almost, I think we have 35 employees, so, three surgeons, 35 employees. You know, we anticipate for the surgery center alone, that's probably going to be 50 to 75 staff additional.
We don't even have them yet, you know, we haven't hired them. And then in our new spa clinic, you know, probably at least doubling, if not more. So, yeah, we're looking at, you know, from the three companies between the clinic, the spa. And the surgeon are probably 150 employees. So, yeah, in terms of scaling, yeah, we're looking at that now.
And so, we've already tried, you already laid the foundation. So, I think, again, one thing besides culture is like really setting up an organizational chart of your business and like who reports to who, and, you know, even though we write all these things down and, you know, we have a title, like Sam, the founder and my wife's the practice administrator, and we have an office manager and a spa director, you know, we have all these titles and we have leads and we have, you know, the breakdowns in clinic and spa.
People still wonder, like, who do I report to? You know, it's like, inevitable. But, you know, we have all that mapped out. We do have HR. We don't have in house HR. We have a wonderful person that's kind of on a retainer. We worked with her for several years now. She's wonderful. And we are actually currently in the process of trying to find executive director slash, you know, practice administrator or COO in that capacity.
And so, that my wife can kind of step forward. You know lateral more towards the spa, which is what she wants to do. And so, you know even, and I've talked about this with my associates, my partners, you know, like having your spouse be kind of your equivalent, you know, in the business, like if you're the CEO and she's COO, you know, it can be a little like.
Unnerving for them, you know, cause they're like, well, she's always going to side with him. I'll tell you right now, my wife does it. Like she probably sides with me like 20% of the time, but no, I mean, I was very conscious of that. And so, we, we've tried to lay plans and a roadmap to say, okay, you know, she's going to kind of transition over into the spas, what she wants to do, what she's, you know, has training and stuff to do.
And as we bring on other people who have. background in running these things on a much bigger scale. So, we're actually, like next week we have interviews with practice administrators. We have like four people. And so, yeah, we've been working on this to grow, but it's all timing, you know, because like, I don't want to bring on people too soon.
And so, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. Aside from doing search, like my job, I'm a, I'm a technician. I literally. Operate like I said, four to five days a week, you know, 60 hours a week. And then I have to go run a business in the background, you know, multiple businesses, you know, I run a side of a software after this time I have a, I have a software company.
I started with a couple of people. I have to do that, you know, and, yeah, I have a turro business that I run, you know, with a person I have, so, I don't know, I think I have a really severe ADHD that I can control, but I have a lot going on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, Lord your wife has been wonderful, like she, has that been just fantastic to have her part of this rather than not know anything about it? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Honestly, yeah, I mean it, you know, it was very scary to me like when I left the first practice, I never saw myself for one being in private practice, I thought I was going to be a hand surgeon at a hospital right where I can go in, do surgery, go home, go enjoy my life. Instead, and then I was like, okay, well join a private practice with someone who knows how to run this, I'll just do surgery.
But then when it's like, okay, it's my own business, I have to run this thing, I can't run into the ground, and I have to do surgery, it was so, nice to have her step up and be like, hey, I'm here with you. I'm going to be by your side. We're going to do this together and it'll make me a little emotional, but she's amazing.
Yeah, she's I would say of all people I've seen grow. You know, I think of myself through residency and even through this business, I would say I've seen her grow exponentially just professionally. intellectually emotional intelligence. She's just grown so, much in the last few years. And I mean, she's like a boss woman and it's awesome and people respect her.
She is just a powerhouse.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's so, cool to see that you can even watch it in Instagram. You can see how pro she's gotten, you know and she's just so, behind you, like, boy, having that kind of support system must be very nice. So, congratulations because she's been with you when you were like nothing, you know, and yeah, you jumped.
I just want to understand. How did you jump like this? I mean you went from zero to a hundred in like about a year. Like how felt like that? Are you doing that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I don't know. I think you know; I think a lot of people I got a lot of hate for it actually, you know, from even a lot of like colleagues because they're like, you know, clown, you know, he's doing TOK and, and I think at that time has made a little ahead of the curve.
And maybe no one's ever going to be dancing. You know, I don't dance in surgery. I think that's, you know, not safe, but you know, I think personality wise, like I tell people, it's like, look, you know, there's plastic surgeons out there who are sculptors and they're amazing artists, you know, and they showcase their work and they'll post it, you know, I'm not, I'm not a sculptor, but I'm a dancer.
Like for me, my. My form of like expression me is to dance, you know, and I love, and I've loved that since I was in high school, I break danced, you can go watch my high school videos. I used to make videos when I was younger. And so, for me, tick tock was just like made for me when, you know, and unfortunately it happened when I was almost 40, but so, for me, I was so, passionate about it, you know, I'm just trying to be myself, but also educate.
And so, I think it really helped me break down a lot of boundaries for patients, but I think for other surgeons, it was very like. Unattractive to them and very scary. And so, I got a lot of hate and I, and I still do. I don't, I don't care at this point, but I have a lot of people now and I speak at ASPS.
I'm speaking again about social media. I speak every year about it. It's been three years in a row. I'm on panels for that. I go to different like GAC. I went to that and I spoke about social media and that's where we met. And so, but yeah, I think, you know, one thing I just talked to people about and advise is look, be yourself, like whatever that is, you know because your patients want to see a human side of you.
And it's hard sometimes to let that boundary down a little bit. Not boundary. I'd say that barrier because, you know, we try to be very professional and, and I agree, there's always like a line of like, okay, where am I professional or am I not? But I think, you know, it's really evolving. And I think a lot of people are seeing that now.
And I see people doing Tik TOKs that, you know, the year before that were, You know, blasting me on Instagram for doing Tik Toks and now they're doing them. And guess what? I'm happy for you. Like I'm not saying how I told you. So, I think it's great that you can be yourself and, and do that. So, that, that's why I think it just grew so, quickly because nobody was really doing it at that time.
And it just kind of caught on, you know, Would here's what I have noticed. If you're good at it, do it. If you're not get somebody to help you look good at it because. You just happen to innately, this is your thing, you know, it just is your thing. Your Instagram is amazing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I actually don't do TikTok because they keep, my 15-year-old niece keeps getting blasted for breast augs and that pisses me off.
So, I'm boycotting it. But Instagram is our, usually our place to be. What's your demographic though? You seem to, of course, skew to the younger patient, the more body patient, is that true? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I think my practice really has, you know evolved and kind of niched down to really like, like I said, female 20 mid-twenties to like mid-forties, maybe early fifties female.
A lot of them are moms. They've had multiple kids, you know yeah, mainly breast body and contouring body contouring. And I don't do much face anymore. You know, our new associate brought on, he does a lot of face. We did that intentionally. I just, and I think it's because I started out, you know, at a place where I was working with a facial plastic surgeon, so, I already kind of niched myself down because I was doing hand, I was doing breast body and stuff, cause he didn't do that.
And so, I just kind of, my referrals came that way and I just kept doing it. I love it. I love doing that. And so, I just kind of stuck to that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, again, you're in the middle of Utah. How many children does everybody have? Like you can't be in the header market, you know, I would be the tummy tuck king. As a matter of fact, you are. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
What do you call it? Not β
Jerry Chidester, MD: βMommy takeoverβ.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. How cute is that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Like, I just like the idea of empowering a woman, you know, it's like we're taking our bodies back. We're taking back what was ours, you know, like it really was kind of given up to their kids for the last decade or whatever.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, who thought of that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I did.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mommy takeover. I'm a marketer. I eat, sleep and drink marketing and never dawned on me to call it βmommy takeoverβ.
Jerry Chidester, MD: What's your mommy makeover? I was like, oh, it kind of bugged me. You know, I mean, her granny, granny game changer, daddy do over. But I was like, you know, I'm not there. I get that. There's a lot of women that have not had kids.
And so, I'm still, I wish I could come up with a term that's just like, Hey, let's kind of fix everything head to toe that you're wanting to get back. You know, most of my patients aren't looking to be extreme. I think most plastic surgeons are that way. Patients want, Either restored, you know, volume in their breasts because they've lost it after kids or they're wanting to just feel more confident for whatever that is.
You know, it's not like people are wanting extreme stuff all the time. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And what about your other thing that you trademarked the βSoMeβ? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: SoMe, yeah. So, that came it's called the SoMe breast aug.
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, so, it started, it's kind of two parts. It started where I was, I was evolving the way I was doing breast augmentation where I was doing more, what's called composite breast augmentation, where you're, you have implants, you have fat grafting, you have a lift and then you have, you know, internal bra or some type of mesh material to support the weight of the implant.
So, it's a lot of different components. That's called composite breast augmentation. And I hated saying that to patients, okay, we're going to do a composite breast. I'm like, what is that? You know? And so, I told my wife, she's like, that sounds so, lame. And so, we try, I'm like, how can I like shorten that down?
And, and so, you know, we're talking and then we're also talking like, you know, doing "befores and afters" for social media, I was like, okay, like, you know, how do you ask a patient professionally, you know, bring in a bra that will look good. So, that when we do before and after it, like it's very consistent, it's clean looking, it's not, you know, like, you know, a ratted toward torn bra, you know?
And so, my wife's like, My wife came up, she said, call it SoMe. because SoMe stands for social media. She's like, come up, like call it a SoMe bra. Like tell them to wear a bra that they would be willing to post on social media. I was like, oh. And then I thought it's kind of double meaning like SoMe for the breast augmentation part is more like, you know, a customized, like, this is so, me.
Like this is, yeah, that's how I saw it. This is, Yeah, so, it kind of has double meaning. And so, then, then I, you know, we, we invented a bra that's a post-surgical bra. So, that's another business we have. But so, that's called the SoMe bra. And again, it's very customizable. Like it's adjustable everywhere for a post-surgical breast patient.
Cause I, you know, I had tried tons of different surgical bra brands and just didn't love them. And so, I mean, these aren't perfect, but I think they work really well. Patients have liked them. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. How did you end up with 209 reviews at a rating of 4. 9 in such a short amount of time? Is there a process, a secret, you're bribing them? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
How are you getting that?
Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I wish. Yeah, yeah. I know some places like you go get free ice cream if you give them a review. Right. But we don't do that. So, no you know, I think when a patient is in that moment when they, they look in the mirror or, you know, they come for their follow up and they're just super happy, like if that's a moment to capture and say, Hey, like, would you be willing to share this with other people?
And so, you know, we don't corner them or trap them, but we say, Hey, and we send it to them right then and there. So, I think one, one thing we've learned is you really have to send that link to that Google review, like while they're in office. Or even say, Hey, we have an iPad. If you're willing to do that, you don't force them to do it.
But yeah, I mean, that, that's it. And, and I think yeah, unfortunately there's that one. I know why there's the, the made of 4. 9, but you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's fine. It's also a good opportunity. So, much more authentic to be that than 5. 0.
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. Yeah. I love the 4. 9.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Don't let that bother you at all.
Jerry Chidester, MD: No, it doesn't. And I think, you know, it's in the response to these as well.
That's just as important, you know, the way you respond to Negative feedback, but I think any feedback is good feedback. It doesn't mean it's negative or positive. It's that it's an opportunity to grow because we're definitely not perfect and there's growing pains with any business or practice. And I think you always learn from something, you know, whether it's your mistakes or your shortcomings or your oversize, you know. So, you're right about the timing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's about the timing because a lot of the surgeons say, well I asked, I catch them at their three months and I say by three months, she's so, used to this. She's not ecstatic anymore. She's just, you know, she loves it, but not like she did when she first had it done.
So, I think timing is everything. I also think it's helpful for the doctor to ask. I think you'll get a yes way more often than others. The thing that confuses me, I keep hearing different things about it. Okay. Can they do it in their office on your office on their cell phone or is this IP address an issue? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: So, I've heard like with RealSelf it is, I it still is because RealSelf, my understanding is they do look at that and Google might as well. I don't know about Google, but I do know with RealSelf that that was an issue and so. Yeah, sometimes we'll say, we're going to send you a review. And so, when they leave the office, they can, they can do it.
But you know, your chances, unfortunately of them filling it out, go like plummet because they move on with their life. It's not like they don't do that, but they're not in that same emotional state, you know, where it's like, I'm feeling it like, Oh man, this is all, I'm glad I did this, you know, like. So, yeah, I don't know what the right answer is.
I mean and some, you know, for a while, Google wasn't even reviewing and posting them during COVID. Like, I think they were short staffed. And so, they weren't vetting these reviews. And so, a lot of reviews never got posted. I think for a lot of people and they were doing that to protect businesses, my understanding, you know, if you looked like my, my mom's business with restaurants, you know, they struggled, they couldn't keep employees.
And so, service was very poor. It was a lot of just takeout, you know, where Uber eats. or whatever. And so, they got really bad reviews for service, wasn't the food quality, it was a service. And so, I think Google did that to protect businesses during that time. That's a good point. Yeah. And I know they did that, but I think that's since done, gone and done.
But there's other, you know, there's Yelp. Utah does not use Yelp very much, but like in California, Yelp is a huge thing, you know. And so, there's, yeah, a bunch of Google reviews you know, real self, you know, you talked about, I mean, your own website, you can, you know, can, you kind of conglomerate all the reviews together as well.
I think in the end, you know, the whole point of getting reviews though, it's, it's really, you know, it's one tool for a patient to decide if they want to come to you for surgery, right? Because, just because someone has a lot of reviews, five stars, it really doesn't mean anything if you walk in the door and like, I didn't have a good experience there.
And so, I think, you know, our goal as a business and the culture is really like, you know, you want to give that from the minute they either call or walk in the door till they leave. You know, just that level of experience, like, wow, that was amazing. I want to go back there, you know, and, and or that surgeon, I really connected with them.
It's really about the connection. Cause you got a million reviews, you can have all your friends and family gone to that surgeon, but you may not connect with them. You know, people, and I say that online, I'm like, look, You know, it's, it's actually kind of, I have to share this with you. I got a, I had posted some reels the other day that I did on Instagram and someone, another surgeon, not in my state was trying, I could tell they were trying to send my, my reels to another person, you know, because, and it was a comment about that reels.
And it was not very nice. It was like, Oh, I'm OMG. I'm so, embarrassed for him. You know, and I was very nice in my reply and she didn't, I don't think she realized, well, then she realized it came to me and tried to correct it and said, Oh, that was not meant for you. Wrong person. And like, I've been doing Instagram for a while.
I know who that was intended for. It was intended for somebody else, but it was about me, but I was very nice. I said, look, like, you know what, sometimes my stuff isn't for everyone and it may not be for you and that's fine. Like. You'll find people that are drawn to you and I'll find people that are drawn to me and that's okay, you know so, I try to be nice about my reply But yeah, like everyone has their thing and patients have their thing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I have my own fan club and then the fan club and the doctors, yeah, the doctors do the same thing to me. And I think, come on, don't you have something better to do than, you know, comment on my copy. You don't like what I write. Like, come on. But you know what? If you're playing a bigger game, it's just part of it and it's no big deal.
Yeah. I wouldn't worry about it at swag. You are just Mr. Entrepreneur. So, of course you have a shopping cart and you have t-shirts and the bras and the t-shirts are hysterical. How, how did that all happen? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I had a lot of people actually messaged me and say, Hey, like, I would love it if you made a shirt.
I had patients, I would have patients literally make shirts the day of surgery and say, like. You know, I don't sell these shirts, but they say like Chiddy's Titties or something, you know, I'm like, Oh, to me, that's a little vulgar, you know, I thought it was funny. I bought the domain name cause I didn't want anybody else to buy it, but I don't use it.
But no, so, I had patients coming in making their own t-shirts and so, I thought, well, we can make our own. And so, you know, we, we made, this is got Chiddy's or Chiddy Committee or something, you know, just kind of basic stuff. And then we had the bra and so, we created an online shop really for that.
And, you know, I. We now what we do is a lot of we just give our patients, you know, cause they've been waiting. Some patient waited two years to be seen for consult. So, we try to give them some stuff. They've been waiting. This is appreciation like, Hey, here's a shirt. Here's one of our custom bags. Here's a gift card to our spa.
Thank you for waiting. Cause you could have gone anywhere else in the last two years. You could be healed two years ago and you know, you're ready for your implant exchange at this point. So, we appreciate people for waiting. And so, we try to, yeah. You know, give get back to them too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And if you just wanted my two cents the t-shirts are cute But I would actually do some form fitting tank tops for the girls who really want to show off what you gave them And they'll you know, keep them clean But those would be a big and then have that post op goodie bag where they get that for free the gift card to the spa absolutely once you've had surgery you need to go to non-surgical and keep everything in good shape and in that, I would also put the referral card, you know, a couple of referrals.
But I think you would get a lot of play out of that.
Jerry Chidester, MD: I love that. Yeah. We've talked about tank tops. I haven't done it, but I really, I hear that from you. I think I will do it now. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: But there's like cool ones, you know, like a nice quality tank top, like they would really wear that. And I'm thinking I'm envisioning black on the one of those t-shirts says.
Chicago, which is Chicago. Al Hadid?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Al Hada, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's all that about? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, yeah, so, I think it says like Chicago, Al Hada, maybe Los Angeles. Los Angeles, yes. Yeah. And Bangkok.
Yeah. So, those are all places that like I lived. It's more of an insight thing. My staff thought it was the dumbest-shirt ever, but I'm like, I don't know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You were literally going to franchise to those places and I thought you've got to be kidding.
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I had people ask me that. Are you going there? I'm like, no. Okay. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I thought you were going to go back to your roots, like Saudi Arabia and like, you know, go help them because β
Jerry Chidester, MD: I've actually, I've looked into that actually going back there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've talked to some folks in Saudi Arabia. They're all of that. They're busy. They are. They care about this as much as we all do. And under that they at home, they say they don't wear this. They have pajama parties and the girls wear their. Panties and bras and show off what they have. And there's a lot going on and the men, the men love hair.
They love their restoration. Who knew? Cause they're wearing turbans. I think people are so funny.
Yeah. Anyway, I think there's a market there for you.
Jerry Chidester, MD: For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we're going to wrap it up now. Is there any advice you would give anybody else who's thinking about not even playing this big game that you are, but just jumping a bit, just jumping from, let's say insurance.
I'm assuming you don't do insurance anymore? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: No, I haven't for a couple of years. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, is there any advice there to, like, if you want to make that jump or make that move or go out on your own or do a build out any. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. So, I think, you know, when it comes to like, yeah, if someone's looking to evolve their practice, if they're, let's say you're doing all insurance and you're thinking of doing aesthetic surgery, or at least more maybe than you're doing currently I think first off, you know, it's really hard to break into because people will say, well, I want to see your aesthetic work, like show me your breast augmentations and maybe I don't do a lot, but I think the best way for those patients is, is, yeah.
They have family and people that are all the time, right, like you may have done an amazing breast cancer reconstruction on a patient and they probably aesthetically look amazing and they're going to have family or maybe they themselves want an aesthetic procedure. So, a lot of people, I think, start with their actual insurance patients and then, you know, kind of bring them into the aesthetic realm, but then also referrals from their family members.
So, I remember because when I started, even my hand patients, you know, like they were coming in. To a spa and they're doing their ham, but they're like, Hey, like asking about Botox or other services. And so, that really was kind of the gateway. So, I think depending on the environment you're in, like if you're in just a strictly insurance-based office, you know, I think looking at how that arrangement is set up so, that you can either.
Bridge that over to the aesthetic side, whether it's like your actual physical office space changing, or like I said, you know, getting those referrals and kind of seeking those out more because they're there. But you're going to have to have some base of aesthetic work before, you know, it's like me rhinoplasty.
People are like, well, I want to see your rhinoplasty. Well, I haven't done any. How am I supposed to show you? I've done like three, you know, and they're like, well, you've only done three, you know? So, that's why I'm like, I just don't want to get into that. And so, but if you really want to do something, you're passionate about it, or you want to, you know, kind of shift laterally.
Yeah, I think it definitely takes, you have to. Like I said, you have to make some kind of change in your practice, like with how you do it within your practice. And, and I, but I would say, you know, cause I have friends that I've helped and kind of consulted with. Like I said, I consult who have done that recently, you know, they shifted from strictly insurance over to the aesthetic.
And I think a big part of that is really utilizing social media. You know, a lot of times people that are insurance or hospital-based hospitals won't let them post those cases or ensure, you know, whatever system they're under. And so, you kind of get in this trap where you can't use any of that. So, everything you're posting is very educational.
non patient based. And so, I think transitioning to that in social media you know, it's, it's a little bit hard, but it's very doable. And so, I think doing that is really important. And so, if you start out, you don't cases post educational stuff, talk about it though. Talk about breast augmentation. You, you know, you, you may not have a bunch of cases to show, but you can explain.
Explain, you know, the differences between subfascial, submuscular, subglondular. You can do educational content and build that rapport. It just takes consistency and time. That's, you know, I, I started with nothing. I started with zero followers. Everybody starts with zero followers, you know, at least one, my mom and my, my wife.
So, two, you know, you can have two followers, but you're going to have to build it from there. So, everybody has to do it. You know, set the start.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. Who's the creative genius behind you? Is it you, is it your wife? Because your Instagram, it's really creative. Like, it's so, creative. Very, very entertaining. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
I stayed on much longer than I wanted to, and I just got sucked in. So, wait, who, who is the brain behind that? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I, well, I'm not going to claim being the brain, but I do run my own social media page. I have the whole time. I'm pretty I kind of cling onto it because it is my personality that's coming through.
But a lot of the ideas, whether I'm, you know, I do my homework, I do my homework on Tik TOK, Instagram, and I look to see what trends are or how I can turn that for, you know, plastic something, or it just might be my own idea. But I also, my wife has a lot of good ideas. I will give her full credit. She has some awesome ideas and she'll send me stuff all the time.
Like, Hey, Jerry, do this, but do this. Or I'll say, Hey, I'll say I have this audio. I want to use Mindy. I'm like, how can I put that to plastics? And she'll be like, she'll just tell me right away. You know, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's genius. So, I definitely give her a lot of credit. But I have a social media manager.
She's great. Alyssa, she'll send me stuff all the time. My employees, my medical assistants and staff, they have ideas. And so, we've kind of created this culture of, it's almost like, Hey, if you have something fun, let's do it and we'll do it together. Or if you have an idea, let's do it. And I'll give you credit.
You know, like I'm not the type of person to just try and take credit for things. Like. I think credit needs to go where it's due. And you know, whether someone filmed something, someone had the idea, someone took a photo, I mean, like in everything we do, like we should credit those people. And so, I think because of that culture, you know, everyone's willing to share and do that.
So, I think that's, you know, I give credit to everybody around me, honestly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I think it's great team building the, the social media. It gets everybody involved and you, and you hear everyone's input and your staff has a lot of creative ideas. So, good for you. Yeah. Last question, tell us something that we don't know about you. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
That's interesting. Although you are already super interesting. There is one thing though. You went to Tokyo. Are you a pain in the neck to go on vacation with? Cause you're filming everything. Are you one of those people? Like, would you just put the darn thing down camera down and let'sβ¦
Jerry Chidester, MD: I, you know, I, I like to be in the moment, but like there, like for me, like, even like when I wake up and I see a sunrise, like, I feel like I like to take it in, but I also like to capture it on a video or photo.
So, I can like reflect on that someday in the future. And for me, like Tokyo, for example, was a childhood dream. I've always wanted to go there. And so, there's certain moments where it's like, yeah, I definitely want a video of that. But then there's times where it's like, nope, phone's away. And we're just going to enjoy the moment.
You know, a lot of my life, it's. photography and video, like whether it's Tik Tok, Instagram, whether it's, you know, plastic surgery, I mean, I'm taking photos before and afters, you know, and then photos of my kids and family. So, I think it's just the culture I've been in, but yeah, my wife would say it's very annoying to go to dinner with me because I have to take photos of all the food before anyone can eat.
So, yeah, it's probably pretty annoying. All right. So, tell us something we don't know. I made the decision when I was young to, to work, you know, so, I had this, I, when I was in high school, I kind of mentioned earlier, I worked all through high school when I was young. And I think that's really what it, I think it brought me to where I am today because of that decision I made.
And maybe I'd be in a similar position or maybe better. I don't know, you know, had I made another decision, but when I was in high school, I made the conscious decision to work. At a job and I carried that job all the way through high school and I really think that helped me build work ethic. I think I learned a lot about myself, what I was capable of and learning to work as a team, but I also, you know, on the other side, I played sports.
I played basketball and I played soccer and I, and I tried out for soccer and made the team, but then I literally like pretty much quit that to go work and I always. I donβt know if I regretted that because I, I don't know if that would've built me differently, you know, in terms of like team play and all those things.
But I think that's something about me that a lot of people don't know because I really chose like that over sports, which a lot of people do the other, and I think, but I think it made me who I am today. The other thing that I'll tell you that no, not a lot of people know about is I mentioned earlier I like to make vi I used to make music videos with my friends.
I used to make NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, you know, you name it. No, I used to make music videos. Where can we see your work? Oh, no. Well, I actually tried to convert it from VHS, you know, and it was just such poor quality. It didn't work out very well, but maybe someday I'll find someone who knows how to restore it and I'll put them out there, but you don't want to see those.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. I just can't get over how fast you have grown. I, in all the years I've been doing this, I would say you win on the fast track. You know, yeah. And I'm going to say a lot of this is you're hanging with the right people who got you thinking big early. You also had a great upgrade upbringing, like watching mom and dad work their butts off, I think is just, you know, priceless. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
But then hanging with some people who think bigger. I think anyway, that's how I look at it. Like when I, when you grew up in a little world, I grew up in a very myopic sub suburb in Chicago. And I mean, my mind was blown when I moved from there and went, Whoa, look at what else can I do? You know, I think some of it is that, you know, justβ¦
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I really, I think a lot of, like you said, I think definitely surrounding myself with those people, but I think I learned to surround myself with those people living in Saudi Arabia, you know, and living, like you mentioned, living outside of here, because like I said, it becomes very myopic when you're in your small town or, you know, just living, you know, in that city and going to the same school and the same people.
But I also look at it as like, I look back a lot of those people that I grew up with in high school. I, you know, I've leaned on today, you know, and so, it's interesting to think you look back at life, like, you know, people, I think, come into your life at a certain time for a certain reason, and then they leave, but it doesn't mean they don't come back later, you know, and so, I think, you know, in the end, it's like, Every interaction with any person you come across.
And this is something I learned in high school early on. Luckily, is that every situation with a human being is like an opportunity to be kind and nice to them. Because I think if you, if you build your relationships in a negative way. Like if you always, I think in my opinion, there's always two ways to treat people.
You can be very nice to them or not nice to them. And I think if you constantly do the not nice thing to people, builds up this reputation that you don't even know about, or the way you treat people where that will carry with you eventually, you don't want to call it karma or whatever you want to call it.
It definitely comes back to you. But I think on the opposite, if you are nice to people, even if you don't know them, you know, I remember I go on medical school interviews and I would be nice to every single person. Didn't matter. I don't care if anybody saw me or not. Just nice to everybody. You know I think it really comes back to you in the end because I think the way you treat people is how people end up treating you.
And, and I think with that attitude that's probably the biggest piece of advice I can have for anybody. Like you can start today. If you haven't been doing that past, start it. Just be nice to people, like treat people like a human being. It sounds so, basic, but we don't do that a lot of times, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have a quote that I have to look at every day because I happen to be, I wish I was as kind hearted as you are. I am impatient. I'm an Irish Catholic redhead and it's pain in the neck. But the quote is life or God, I can't remember, but God will give you what you are, not what you want. And I thought, isn't that the truth?
Like, where are you going? You know, are you going to get there the hard way? You're going to go the easier way. And so, true. Anyway, I'm going to let you go. It has been an absolute pleasure. I will be watching your success. I don't know how much bigger you can go, but we'll, we'll see, obviously. Yeah. So, do you want somebody, if somebody was dying to get ahold of you and chat, are you open to that?
And if so, how would they do it?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah, I honestly, I have surgeons probably two, three times a week, reach out to me, whether it's social media or whatever outlet I'm always open to talking to people, whether they're looking for advice about anything, whether it's social media, running a business or any plastic surgery techniques, I'm always open to, they can get ahold of me probably Instagram is my easiest.
@drchiddy just DM me. I checked that probably more than anything. And then I'm happy to give you my number through that. And then I'm happy to text and call you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I forgot to ask, how much time do you spend on Instagram and TikTok? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I look through my, yeah, I look at my data. You know, like I said, I probably operate around 60 plus hours a week.
And I, and I, then I run a business and I spend probably 20 to 30 hours a week on Instagram and social media. Whether that's creating reels, creating content or answering questions or researching, you know, it's, it's a. Full time job in itself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait. So, was that 90 to 100 hours a week? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Oh, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How many hours a night do you sleep? How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: I get like five to six hours.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, dear God.
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. Like, well, I'm like, I'm wide awake. So, I'm very passionate about life. You know, I'm awake. I'm ready to go. Yeah. I mean, residency, you know, you work a hundred plus hours a week. So, I think I just never really, Turn that down. You know, honestly, I kind of came to practice and just kept, kept that. I mean β
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, everybody, you heard it here. Did you want to know how you get fast? You know, success, do what he's doing, you know, 90 to a hundred hours.
Jerry Chidester, MD: You may not want to do that. Maybe it won't be as fast, but that's okay. It can be. So, we all have our own growth curves. It's all, and you know, they're all relative.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's fine. Right? And you might slow down later, like maybe now, you know? Because I know some surgeons who are working their butts off now because they want to exit at 45, you know?
Yeah. So, it just depends on who you are. I, I always say just know thyself. You know, just know who you are. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
Jerry Chidester, MD: Yeah. I had a five year, I, I told myself I would go a hundred plus percent for five years and I'm.
Getting close to that. So, yeah, and I'm, I mean, you know, I maintain that, but yeah, I know. I feel good. I feel like I'm at a good pace. And I think like I said, you know, you have to have those breaks. Like when it comes, like last week I did a full week of social media break. I just, I'm like, I need a break. I know when I'm kind of at my point and I just need to be with, you know, my family and just break that.
And so, you know, I think it's important to have those breaks built in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my gosh, good for you. I just love all the tips and the pearls you just gave out. It's, it's so, helpful because you make it look so, easy. And like everything else in life, it's the easier it looks, the harder work that went in the back end to make that happen. How did or does this impact your ability not to be just booked out, but to be booked out 2 years?
So, congratulations. I will see you again, I'm sure at a meeting.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Chidester being booked out 2 years.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Chidester, you can reach out to his website at, jerrychidestermd.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Chidester for sharing his recipe for success on being booked out 2 years.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βBooked Out 2 Years β with Jerry Chidester, MDβ.
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#drchiddy #drchiddyutah #drchiddyslc #drchidester #jerrychidestermd #successfulplasticsurgeon
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, going from fellow to partner.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations.
Now, todayβs episode is called "Fellow to Partner β with Dr. Erin Smith".
I love interviewing successful surgeons to learn what their journey was like for them to get where they are now, going from fellow to partner.
It was never a straight path and itβs always filled with pivotal moments of decision that chartered their course, when going from fellow to partner.
All of them had mentors and influencers along the way of going from fellow to partner that molded their beliefs, desires and actions they took to carve out their standing in the marketplace.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast was an interview I did with Erin Smith, MD, a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Austin, TX; who went from fellow to partner.
We talked about Dr. Smithβs journey from growing up in Mississippi, then moving her husband and 3 small kids to Beverly hills to do a fellowship with Dr. Paul Nassif of the show βBotchedβ and Dr. Babak Azizzadeh of The Center of Advanced Facial Plastic Surgery.
Then, how she went from Beverly Hills to becoming a partner in a flourishing practice in Austin, TX, in only three years.
One big take-a-way is to immerse yourself in a thriving environment of other successful surgeons who can show you how itβs done and save you years of guessing and testing, when going from fellow to partner.
Visit Dr. Smithβs website P.S. Please help me grow the reach of Beauty and the Biz Podcast by subscribing and or reviewing.
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Transcript:
Fellow to Partner β with Dr. Erin Smith Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and going from fellow to partner. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to get them more patients and more profit.
Now, today's guest is partner Dr. Erin Smith, who made the journey from fellow to partner. She's a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon partner who specializes in both cosmetic and reconstructive procedures from the neck up.
Now, Dr. Smith grew up in Mississippi, where she earned her medical degree from the University of Mississippi School of Medicine, and then completed a rigorous five-year head and neck residency program at the University of Mississippi Medical Center β all before starting her journey from fellow to partner.
She then completed a fellowship in Beverly Hills with Dr. Paul Nassif, the star of the show Botched, and Dr. Babak Azizzadeh, founder of the Facial Paralysis Institute and Center for Advanced Facial Plastic Surgery, before becoming a partner in another practice. Now, when she's not working, Dr. Smith enjoys spending time with her husband and three daughters and we'll talk more about that.
So, Dr. Smith, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. I'm excited to hear your journey of going from fellow to partner.
Dr. Erin Smith: Catherine, thank you so, much for having me on today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. First of all, how does a little girl grow up and say, I want to be a facial plastic surgeon and go from fellow to partner? How do you get there? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, my mom is the one who exposed me to medicine. So, she, growing up was started off as a nurse.
She was a labor and delivery nurse for several years. And then she was one of the first people to go on to be a nurse practitioner. So, she through her, I got exposed to medicine and. Ultimately decided to go more of the MD route, but that she was really the one who kind of opened the doors for me. And then, you know, ultimately went to undergrad and was very interested in the brain.
So, my undergrad majors were biochemistry and psychology. And I really thought I would go more of like a neurosurgery route or something to do with the brain and then. As time went on, got into med school which I also did in Mississippi, like you mentioned, and, and we started our head and neck surgery blocks in our and you know, you're, you basically have different blocks where you're.
Dissecting different parts of the body. And I just loved, loved the face and adding, I thought it was super cool. Specifically, the facial nerve, learning about that, you know, the nerve, the facial nerve is kind of the mind body connection, how we express ourselves, show our show our emotions, speak, eat all, all of the above.
And so, I just. I like would hang out in the lab for hours and hours in that specific block. And so, I knew I had kind of a passion for that area. And then as time went on, I got, I did some rotations in the head and neck surgery some more clinical rotations. And I just loved it. I love the surgeries.
I love the people. It, this particular specialty definitely attracts a specific type of person, people that are. Want to do surgery, but we kind of are known as like the nice surgeons, you know, we're, everybody's pretty type a and hardcore, but also you know, down to earth overall. And so, I during, you know, med school kind of leaned more and more towards that.
And then ultimately decided to pursue my residency program and, and head and neck surgery residency. It's all over the map. You know, you're, you're, you're doing everything from taking out huge head and neck. tumors to trauma. And I loved it all. I really, I truly did. But I found myself really gravitating towards anything soft tissue related where I could really get, get in there and get my hands dirty.
And, you know and I loved sewing. I love just a little intricacies of that. And so, and then throughout that process was still remain interested in, in facial, the facial nerve. Learning about facial paralysis and how I could kind of integrate that into everything. And so, that's what really drew me into ultimately pursuing the fellowship.
So, I went, you know, I was living in Mississippi but did my interviews all over the country. I, you know, I wanted to really open my, and I can talk about kind of. Later, but I want to, I interviewed all over and then ultimately ended up in Beverly Hills with Dr. Aziz a day and his fellowship is just really incredible because it, it does a great job of mixing like very high-end cosmetic which you don't get that in your residency, you know, in academic setting, you're, you're doing a lot of great surgeries, but you're not really getting that, that cosmetic side as much.
And then he has such a unique. Yeah. Practice where he has a private practice where he's doing facial nerve work and reconstructive procedures of the face. So, his niche that he had out there was very intriguing to me. So, that ultimately made me pick up our whole family and I can go back and talk about kind of that process later.
But yeah, we picked up our whole family and ended up in LA and then ultimately ended up here. So, there was, it was a lot of series of small steps along the way that got me here, but. I'm super happy for where I am now. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, but let's not gloss over that. That's a big deal. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
So, here you are in Mississippi, before going from fellow to partner. You've always probably lived there. How much of a sticker shock sticker shock culture shock was it to go from Mississippi to Beverly Hill? And how sure were you? You must have been so, sure to move the family there. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: I mean, I honestly never. I, you know, I knew I, I did undergrad in Mississippi because I, I love my university and I got a great, great scholarship.
I went to Ole Miss, which is a great s e c college, and I got into the honors college there. So, that was a calculated decision to stay there for undergrad. Med school came along, same thing in med school. I had, I liked to have my daughter, my third year of med school. And so, by the time it came around to apply to residency programs, she was almost one.
And I, you know, at that time I, even in residency, I, I really wanted to go away and kind of go broader, but we made it, we made a calculated decision to stay close to family during that time because we were, we just had a young baby and. I was planning to have more. I knew that at the time. So, by the time that fellowship came along, I was like, okay, I'm, I'm ready.
And so, I knew I wanted to go away and, and fellowship's just such a blink of an eye. It's a short time period. So, I knew I wanted to get a broader exposure. I probably would've gone away sooner and, and done. And, but one, I just made it a calculated decision to stay closer to where we had grandparents around.
For, for my kids and ultimately the, the university Mississippi head and neck surgery program is incredible. So, that was, it was, I interviewed all over the country, even for residency and, and wanted to end up really wanting to stay there, but just because of, I mean, Mississippi has really some of the sickest people in the country, and so, I knew I would see kind of the worst of the worst, like the pathology that I'm exposed to there, whether it be trauma related or just.
severe advanced cancer. I knew that I could really, you know, for lack of better term, get my hands dirty and be really exposed to the worst of the worst, which would ultimately make me prepared to deal with anything. And so, that I feel like staying in Mississippi for that really helped me really develop my surgical skills.
And then going out to L. A. Was how I feel like I fine tune things, you know, we're able to kind of Fine tune things. And I, and but yeah, moving, moving out there was definitely, I had lived in other cities in the South. I had lived in Atlanta. I lived in New Orleans. I, you know, wasn't always in a, in a small town, but definitely LA was, it was a sticker shock in a good way.
I absolutely loved it. Even considered staying there. Love the weather. So, I'm, I'm an outdoors person and, you know, even though my fellowship was grueling, meaning the hours were, Yeah. You know, crazy, crazy long hours, which was a good thing. Cause I learned a lot. I would come out and it would still be beautiful and sunny and perfect LA weather.
So, no matter how hard I was working, I was always in a good mood just because, you know, being, being around that, that LA sunshine and being close to the beach. So, I loved it. And, you know, again, yeah, we thought we would stay out there, but ultimately kind of landed in the middle of Austin.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Your partner husband was a-okay with it.
Because the fellowships only one year. Did you have a plan for what happens after that year? You were like, well, did you have a plan? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: So, yeah, so, my program that I was at my residency program another kind of kind of backtracking a little bit. 1 of the reasons that I. Really shows facial plastics.
My mentor, Randy Jordan he was my mentor in Mississippi and ultimately my fourth year of residency, I was really kind of leaning towards facial plastic fellowship. And he has a really cool practice where he's, you know, an academic professor at the university, but he also has a private clinic called faces where he does a lot of cosmetic procedures.
So, I was very intrigued by his case mix. Meaning that he could go do these really cool reconstructive cases and teach residents at the hospital, but then have his kind of more high-end cosmetic practice. And so, around my fourth year, I was talking to him and, and, and saying, you know, let him know, I was thinking about doing facial plastics.
Actually, I guess it was my third year. Cause you, you decide a little earlier. And that's when I started, he's, he said, he said, Aaron, there's not a lot of practices like mine. It's really hard to find where you get the best of both worlds. So, he recommended that I come and basically kind of shadow some different other doctors that, that have facial plastics practices.
So, before I made that decision to leap to do the fellowship. And so, that's when I actually came in shadow, Dr. Buckingham here, cause they, they knew each other through the academy. So, I was a third-year resident, and then I went and shouted at a doctor in Atlanta and ultimately decided that yes, this is what I wanted to do.
So, my husband and we're communicating at the time. He's a financial planner. So, he's in business. He has a CFP license. And so, starting it was a. He started working from home. Actually, maybe it was around that time period. He moved companies and he was working from home commuting once a week to into an office a few hours away, but he was working from home.
So, when it became time for me to decide where I wanted to go for fellowship. There were really no limitations, which was really nice. His company so, he was doing Zooms before, before the pandemic, before Zooms were a big thing. And so, yeah, he was, my husband was super supportive of, you know, it's, it's a short time period.
It's a, you know, one year of your life. So, we were, we were prepared to go anywhere that basically offered the best training. So, then that's really been beneficial for me throughout my career and even, you know, getting my, my, my job now that he was able to kind of transition. So, he's had this, his same job for the last 10 years, and it's been able to kind of transition where I transition.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, how many kids to California with you? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: So, my husband, you know, I always thought I would, I wait till, you know, after fellowship, after all of my training to have kids, that was my initial plan when I was younger. And then I met my husband and he is he's eight years older than me. And so, by the time, you know medical school came around, he's, you know, not, he's not old, but he's eight years older than me.
So, he was ready. And I, you know, entertain the idea. sooner because I was, you know, I didn't want to wait too long. And so, during medical school, I, every child, I made a very calculated decision. Okay. I'm on this research block or I'm on this rotation. And we were very lucky that we were able to, you know, conceive when we did, when we did And so, we, we started having babies, you know, my, my third year of medical school, I had a child, and then my intern year, and then my, my fourth year.
Each child, you know, it was, I think things have actually evolved. I mean, I'm not, my kids aren't that old, but I think that the way, you know, childbearing during residency, I think it's a little bit easier than it was then. I mean, for you know, For Amelia, my, my she's my, she's almost 10 now. I was luckily in med school.
I was on a research block, so, I got a good month off with her. My poor middle child, Stella, I had basically three weeks off. And the middle child always,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, yeah, I'm a middle child and I'm still recovering.
Dr. Erin Smith: We were lucky because I had, you know, again, I made the decision to stay closer to grandparents.
So, when it was time for me to go back to work, I was able to have. Grandparents and even siblings come step in for those few weeks. And then my kids were all daycare kids. And you know what, they're tough and they, they did great with it. And then my, my third child, I had my fourth year of residency.
I was on a research block. So, she's kind of my spoiled child because she got a full eight weeks. So, we have about two, two months of a research rotation where I could work from home. So, she's my, my, we call her my coddled child. Cause I actually got, you know, a real maternity leave with her. But yeah, we you know, I, I think that in life there's, there's never a good time to have kids, whether you're, whether you're in your twenties, thirties or forties, no matter what stage of your career that you're in, it's never a convenient thing to do at all.
So, I, you know, was able to, to, to work it out where I was able to do it during my training and really not hinder my, my co fellows or anything. I or co residents, I front loaded my call and, you know, there's just ways to do it that if you're. If you're smart about it, you can keep, you don't have to extend your residency or anything like that.
And my program was, was, was pretty supportive, you know, I, I still, and I think, you know, just being a woman in medicine, we're, we're, we're trained to work twice as and just to, you know, keep up. And so, if anything, you know, If anything, I worked harder the years I had kids just to make up for where people weren't, you know, thinking I was, you know, being a slacker or anything like that.
So, by the time I got to a fellowship to move to LA, my kids were my youngest. I think they were going into first grade. First grade, pre k four, and then my youngest was two. And we got very, very lucky that we found this amazing school that was a block from our house. So, it was this cute Catholic school that we went to church, the same place.
And so, I, you know, my husband would walk them to school in the morning, a block away and pick them up during the day or pick him up in the afternoon. And he was able to, you know, for the most part, you know, balance his work as well. So, we just got. Very lucky being able to get into that school.
And they had afterschool programs. So, you know, sometimes I could pick the kids up and they stayed there till, you know by four or five in the afternoon. And so, that's always been, it is just kind of Making sure we have really great childcare and, and, and people that love our kids like we do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you are, your fellowship is coming to an end, before you became a partner. How did you get, well, let's stay with California? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Where did Dr. Paul Nassif fit into all of this? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, so, the fellowship is basically, there're two main fellowship directors, Paul Nassif and Babak Azizzadeh. So, my year was the first year that we started having two fellows.
And so, when we had two fellows, we basically would rotate every two months, where I would spend two months with Dr. Nassif, two months with Dr. Azizzadeh. And so, ultimately, by the end of the year. year, you have about six months of one-on-one time with each of those two physicians. And then, you know, if they were, if Dr. Nassif was filming βBotchedβ, or if they were at a conference or a meeting that I wasn't going to, we would work with other doctors in Beverly Hills. So, I got to work with a lot of other great doctors, Rebecca Fitzgerald, she's a cosmetic dermatologist, who's amazing. Guy Masry, oculoplastic surgeon also.
So, I consider all of that whole group are like, they were just all amazing. The lifelong mentors. But yeah, so, with Dr. Nassif he does, you know, a lot of cosmetic aging face, but at really high-volume rhinoplasty. So, with him, I was able to get, you know, very cutting-edge rhinoplasty experience.
And then Dr. Azizzadeh leans a little bit more towards the aging phase. He does great rhinoplasty as well, but leans a little bit more towards aging face. So, it was a really great balance fellowship. And then also of course, getting that that facial nerve exposure that was just kind of a, I wanted to have a niche, you know there's a lot of facial plastic surgeons, but I wanted to have a niche that I could market myself and getting that facial nerve exposure was, was really, I think just a, one, it's a passion of mine, but to being able to have a niche of another way to.
Kind of market myself of, of something that not everyone offers. So, the fellowship was incredible. I mean, I worked my butt off. I was many, many long nights, weekends, long hours, but I wouldn't take a day of it back cause I you know, that they prepared me extremely well to be out in practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, then the next big transition is getting from Beverly Hills to Buckingham facial plastics in Austin, Texas. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
What's the thought process there and what was the plan? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, again, you know, it doesn't, you think, oh, I stayed in, I got, had all my training in Mississippi. That's where I'm heading back. But that was never the plan that really all my decisions have been based on one, my career and also what's best for my family.
And so, when I was in LA, I did have a great opportunity to go back to my home program and you know, end up working side by side with Dr. Jordan and kind of being his, his partner. And it was an incredible opportunity. But we kind of felt like we served our time. Our plan was never to be in Jackson, Mississippi for 10 years, but it was great for what we needed.
I got incredible training. We literally had our babies and raised our babies there. And, and so, it, it served the perfect. Purpose for what we needed, but that wasn't necessarily where we wanted to be long term. So, even though it was an incredible opportunity to go back there. I just, I didn't feel like it was the right thing.
My mom was about 45 minutes in New Orleans. So, I had a great opportunity to join a, you know, a group there. I loved LA. I considered staying there. LA is very, you know, it's saturated in this I had a, I had a candid conversation with Dr. Aziz today, kind of you know, around Christmas time and let them know, like, you know, who doesn't love LA just because of the weather.
And he's like, of course you love it. Everybody loves it here. And he's like, you knew what you could be very successful here. But it's a, it's a slow a slow rising, you know, it, it, it takes a while to really be extremely successful there. Just because of the, of how saturated it is. And for our family, it just wasn't the right, even though, I mean, it was so, hard to leave that little cute school that I was mentioning and that where our kids were.
So, yeah, I started kind of looking all over and I was, we were really open to any, it was really, what was the best opportunity for my career to launch? And, and be able to launch the scope of practice that I wanted to have. And then where was the best place to raise our kids. And so, we looked all over and when I slightly backtracking, I mentioned that I had Spent some time with Dr.
Buckingham when I was thinking about doing a facial plastic fellowship and then once I it was time to interview for facial plastics fellowships, I interviewed here as well. And so, I had already met him twice and, and spent time with him twice. And really, I love the practice. I love the group of people.
He's just such a savvy businessman and has really done an amazing, incredible job of building a really great team. And this is when our team was much smaller. But so, that was always kind of in the back of my mind. And then Austin was a city that I always had enjoyed visiting. I'm, I'm, I'm very much into outdoors.
I love music and I had, I had visited here a few times just when I was in college and after college, and it was always a city that I felt gravitated towards, I always, you know, even, even when I'd only been here twice, I'm like, I could live there. And so, I, when I interviewed here for a fellowship I, I had like three interviews back-to-back.
It was here and then I immediately flew to San Francisco and then I flew down to LA and they all were back-to-back and they all three were my favorite places that I interviewed. So, it was a very hard decision. And so, I, I had a, I was almost, I almost came here for, for fellowship. But I did it. And then and at that time, Dr.
Buckingham, he was You know, he had a, he had a fellow, but he was not interested in expanding or adding to his practice. And so, when I was in fellowship that I was, it was around Christmas. He reached out to Dr. Azizzadeh to get my new email because my previous one had expired and Azizzadeh forwarded me an email from Dr.
Buckingham. And he basically was at the point where he was ready to eventually add a new, add a partner to his group. He had this great building that he was that was in fruition finally, and he was just ready to finally expand. And so, he reached out to me and I was in, I was at this point, I was, you know, again, it was pre pandemic.
I was loving LA and we were, I was, even though I was only six months in there, we made such a great group of friends. And I was, I was like, okay, I got this interview to go to Austin. Let me go check it out. And my husband was 100% on board. He's like, we're, we're not California people. Southern people. So, LA, you know, Austin's a great middle zone.
And so, he was, he was very excited about the opportunity to come back here. And so, I came here literally for like a red eye. It wasn't a red eye, but it was, I was here for 16 hours. It was a very a quick trip because my fellowship was, again, I was in the heat of it where it was really hard to. And so, I came here, got in town for dinner, had a great dinner with Dr.
Buckingham and his wife, Dawn, who's an incredible surgeon as well. And we had, and then, you know, the next day spent some time back with the practice and it just really solidified what I'd already felt, you know, years prior it was just... You kind of like knowing your heart, it's like when you find a.
A relationship, you know, when you fall in love with your spouse, you just kind of know you know, when it's the right thing. And so, I got back home and he was really, you know, the, the, the scope of the practice that I would be able to do in Austin was really exactly what I wanted that same scope that Dr. Jordan said was, was hard to find, you know, getting that. balance where you're teaching and doing reconstructive procedures, but also doing cosmetic and also me being able to do my facial nerve work.
There's, there's a paucity of that in not only Austin, but in Texas where there's not really any other doctors providing the particular techniques and surgeries that I was trained to do.
So, it just made, it made sense. It was the right decision to come here for my family, financially, all of the above. The city is just a very kid friendly, a very family friendly. So, being able to come somewhere where I knew that we could, you know raise our kids that's safe where we can, where I could really grow my, my practice and be able to work with, you know, a, a really nice established practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you never had a thought to like go solo or work for a hospital. You thought it would be best to just join a practice that would allow you to do. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, so, I want to do class and reconstructive. I had, I wanted, I looked at all, all, all the options. So, joining a hospital that was, there was a, there was probably three or different interviews that I did for that in different cities.
In LA there was a couple opportunities to, to do, you know, join where I'm doing kind of a combination of more of like reconstructive stuff and then, But it's really hard. A lot of those hospital environments, it's really hard to get it into the cosmetic sector, you know, especially if you're on a salary RV model, a lot of the even my colleagues that are in my fellowship year are having a really hard time of, of balancing that out.
So, I knew that if I were to join a hospital, that that would have been, it would be hard for me to be able to eventually branch out. It's definitely doable, but private practice kept pulling me. And then, you know, at this point in my career, I was ready to the reason I ultimately just, I didn't want to start from the bottom up, you know, I was, I had at this point, three kids, a family, I wanted some kind of steady income, you know, and so, joining a practice that's, you know, established was just the right like thing to us to do financially.
My husband had been grinding and supporting us for a really long time, but I got to the point where I was, I was ready just to enjoy my family. I mean, of course, work hard at my, my, my work, but I was ready to be able to not. Okay, start from scratch with a business where I'm having to not only be learned to, to, you know, be out in the clinical world on my own, but also have to be there on the business side.
I wanted to take away that stressor so, that I could enjoy you know, being with my kids. Cause they, I mean, those early stages of their life some, there was a lot of time with them that was sacrificed. They would never know it. You know, they don't, they don't, they honestly don't remember a lot of those early stages.
So, that's one of the benefit of, you know, kind of having children when, when you're in training. But I was ready to make them a priority. And so, in my mind, starting a business from the ground up would have really stolen more of that time from them. So, that was, that was a big factor too, as being able to kind of get more of that work life balance for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The, with Dr. Buckingham. Do you, how does the marketing work? Do you market yourself? Does he, is he such a marketing machine that he just ciphers off patients for you? Or how are you working that part out? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, I mean, he was super generous starting to practice. So, when I came here, once I, you know, finally signed the contract, it was he, he started marketing, they started marketing, doing press releases and stuff and whatnot right away.
You know, with, with the practice money, I wasn't like having to, To do that on my own before I arrived you know, we had a few magazine articles and things like that and just sort of send emails to the, you know, our patients and whatnot. And basically, the reason that he finally decided to hire a partner was because he was booked out surgically months and months and months, you know, for consults over six to nine months.
And so, he was losing patients, patients were going elsewhere cause they didn't want to wait. And so, you know, if, if a patient called in and they wanted to see him and they, they would go to him, but if they're. Just want to come in and see any doctor and it's more of they just want to have something done, then they, then they would get transitioned to me.
And so, that was really great. I mean, I, my practice took off immediately of getting here. I think we just, there was a void of because he has built this practice. We're going on 20 years now in the fall. He's been here for now 20 years. So, he has such an incredible reputation and the. His patients knew that if he was going to bring on a provider that it was going to be a very calculated decision on who he brings on.
So, the reputation that he was able to build, you know, people trusted me you know, early on, which I'm very grateful for that. And so, he did some front-end marketing and then, yeah, once we got me in here, we've continued to just, you know, market us both, but basically if a patient. Calls and they didn't have a doctor preference, then they would, they would be, they would be filtered to me unless they really, really wanted to see him.
And so, that allowed my schedule to get busy pretty quickly. And so, now in terms of, you know, marketing, we were we, we have several different outlets, obviously, you know, Google, the Google engine that I'm learning that I'm learning that. Side of the business. But you know, there's a, we, we have several magazines that will be featured in and the, and the big beast that we're learning is social media.
You, Dr. Buckingham, before I came on that he was, if anything, a little bit anti-social media. Yeah. Just because you know, our, our aging face population who are in there. 60s and whatnot. They're there. Most of them aren't, or at least in the past, we're not going to the social media, they were going more to the website, but that's changing.
I, one of my like top patients at this, you know, by the spry 82-year-old woman. And she said, you know, she checks, checks our Instagram every day. So, I feel like I, you know, that's something that I. Started starting my own Instagram account that is it's linked to the practice, but that's a way where patients can get to know me outside of the, the, the, the Buckingham umbrella because they, they want to know who I am you know, personally, and, you know, they want to see my results and whatnot.
And so, that's been something that. Has been important to me. It's having my own Instagram account where people can go to that and get a little, a little bit of a notion of who I am and get a vibe for my personality and my, my, my style and whatnot. So, you know, it's hard to maintain. I, the busier you get in practice, it's really hard to.
To keep that going. But luckily now we have some good marketing people. I still mean I still manage my own Instagram account. I'm not posting on it probably enough as I should, but I'm keeping it alive just because I want people to be able to look at me specifically. But so, that's been kind of a way that I've marketed myself outside of the practice.
And, you women physicians. That's been a big, a big thing and, and participating in any kind of you know, any kind of women's meeting, Austin Women, the things like that, that helps. But really, I mean, it's just word, pretty much after a few years, it becomes word of mouth with it. The best, the best patients I have are word of mouth patients from, My previous patients that I've operated on. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Always, always. I don't know why doctors don't spend more time on the patients they have who will bring them everybody else they need. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, yeah, new patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: They want to spend a bucket of money on AdWords. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, I think there's an easier way to do this. Yeah, so, yeah, and I'm, and this is definitely an area where I'm just now learning because again, I'm, I'm, I'm in my third year here and the first two, three years I was focused on operating, getting good surgical results and make and making good relationships with my patient, but recently I've joined, I've bought in as a partner.
And so, with that, I, I, I have to yeah. You know, know more about the business side. So, I've slowly been studying over the last few years, but there's just so, much more to learn. I mean, I, I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of. Everything there is to learn, you know, to run a business.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Buckingham is the perfect mentor for that. His mentor was Ed Williams. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Oh yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dr. Williams and I used to run a surgeon's coaching club together you know, called Master's Academy of Surgeons, learning the business side of surgery. So, Dr. Buckingham just really knows it well. And you also got a front row seat to how to build a building, like, from scratch. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
You watched all of that, that I just had.
Dr. Erin Smith: Our new building is absolutely incredible, but it was definitely, there were some growing pains. I mean, we're, we're so, happy to be here, but yeah, there's just so, many, there's so, much red tape for that and getting, you know, we now have a quad ASF certified surgery center, but that took, you know, many, many, many, many long, long nights on days of, of just so, many, it's such a long process, but it's definitely worth it in the end.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I didn't know you bought in. That's fantastic. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah,
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's actually a foot, right? You're not in the last month. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: My contract allowed for, you know, after I think it was two years that I was, that was an opportunity. And so, yeah, we're, we Dr. Buckingham and I have just an incredible relationship.
We are really, really good balance to each other. You know, I think we, we handle our patients similarly, but have different styles and whatnot. So, yeah, I've, I've just been very grateful to be here and. Our practice has grown. I think when I started there was 14 people and I think we're now around 25, 26.
With now that we have our surgery center. So, you know, and we're continuing to grow and we, we actually just hired our current fellow to stay on board with us as well. So, now we'll have three MDs plus our, our fellow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how do you make decisions? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: With the three of, you know, he, our, our fellow isn't making decisions just yet, but he's definitely, he's incredible.
I mean that we, we probably weren't a hundred percent ready. We probably would have waited a few more years to hire somebody, but when you have a good fit, you have to, you have to jump on it. So, our current fellow is just a superstar. The staff love them. He's the patients love him. He's a great surgeon.
So, we did not want to. You know, wait a few more years to and the right candidate not come along. So, we have managers meeting every once a month. And so, that's where we all get together with our Dr. Buckingham, Myself, our current fellow who's will be joining us and then our managers. And, you know, it's all of us just, we have talking points and we all are chiming in.
So, that's really where we're all, most of the decision making happens. I definitely rely on Dr. Buckingham's expertise and wisdom. But he's, he's. From day one has just been incredible of letting me guide my practice, make decisions and, and been supportive. So, he's always open to whatever it might be, whether, you know, we finally, we were like, we have to do, we have to, you know, advance our social media.
We have to, people are looking at that and he's like, okay, let's do it. So, whatever we whatever new ideas, he's always on board for that. So, luckily, you know, there hasn't been any conflicts where we are in disagreement. I'm sure it will come down the road. That's good to have healthy, healthy conflict and disagreement matters.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I meant to ask you, what do you think about the cosmetic patients, the taste they have, the demands they have, have you noticed that they're changing social media and all other things, you know? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Absolutely. I mean, yeah, social media is a, it's definitely, it's been a beast. It's, it's good because it's allowing people to be more comfortable with cosmetic surgery, but then people are more informed, but not necessarily in a good way.
You know so, yeah, I mean, our aesthetic here, our, our, our particular practice is only facial plastic surgery. So, we don't do any body work or whatnot. And so, we our aesthetic is very natural. You know, I, I, I want. I want to make you still look like yourself, but you know, not to not, I want to basically get you back to looking what you used to look like 20 years ago without making you look tight or pulled or anything like that.
And so, I think that that's why people come here. I've also been very lucky in Austin, this, this particular patient population. They're all very, it's a very down to earth population where everybody wants to look, look restored. But the majority of my patients are not crazy. Believe it or not, they're not, they're not high maintenance.
They're very, you know, normal and realistic. So, that's been, I think that that's in LA, you know, my, my patient population was all over the world. We, Dr. Nassif and Dr. Azizzadeh literally had people flying in from all over the world, which was a great training, but we had, we kind of had a mix of personalities.
But Austin in general typically attracts a certain type of person people that are pretty natural and down to earth. And so, that our. We're very lucky with having that here. Thereβre definitely people that, you know, come in wanting trendy stuff. Buckle fat is a big trend right now.
Everybody wants to know about buckle fat, lip lifts. Those are things that are for sure trending right now. Threads, we, I don't, I don't do thread lifting just because I think that they don't last long and they're kind of a rip off, but that some people are always asking about that. But the thing that people are really.
On Instagram and wherever social media outlet, there's so, many different names for different types of facelifts. So, that's like, that's, I have even friends that are my age. I'm in my late thirties and I have friends that are like, what is the ponytail lift? What is the, the weekend lift? What is the, you know, mini lift?
What is the limited lift? And so, that's just, you know, educating and everybody knows about deep plane now. They always want to know, are you going to do a deep plane? And so, it just kind of being able to educate patients on anatomy. It's a fun part of what I do. That was a big thing I learned from Azizzadeh is that, When you go in, like when you're, when you're talking to a patient, talk to them, like they're your friend or their family member.
And you're literally just educating them. You're not trying to sell them on anything. You're just educating them on what they have. And so, I like that. I like that patients are more informed and they come in with educated questions. But yeah, overall, we're very lucky that people ultimately kind of trust us to, to help guide them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, just watching the practice now you've been there three years, what would you say is the biggest challenge to running a cosmetic practice from your perspective? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's a, like you said, the best word of mouth is, or the best marketing is word of mouth. And so, you know, making sure you keep your current patients happy and, in the door, and, and making sure you're always thinking about how to retain them.
And that's. That's a big thing. And then getting new patients. I mean, in general, Austin is a, it's a rapidly growing city. And so, we have a lot more surgeons that have slowly come here over the last few years. And so, making yourself stand out and, and, and staying booked out, you know, I, Definitely, there's some ebbs and flows where there's in the summer and the and the holidays I'm booked out and then I get it gets to, you know, February and August and things are slower and I start, you know, panicking a little bit.
What's happening? Is it the economy? Why is it slowing down? And luckily, you know, it that those ebbs and flows work themselves out, but just making sure we're doing the right thing to keep our practice relevant and keep our practice of being kind of the cutting-edge practice in Austin that everyone wants to come to and attracting people from around Austin.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you cannot be ignored with the size of that building. What if it's 12, 000 square feet? Gorgeous. It's huge. You can't miss it. That was a good move. Let's talk about the personal side. How in the world are you growing this practice? You're growing your name in a new community. You've got a husband and three kids and a dog, and I think you'd like to be outside. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
How are you pulling all that off? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: I am a master multitasker. So, I always have, you know, a paper running to do list every month. I have, I basically redo my, my paper to do list and I have a column, a life column, a work column, and then some other research column, you know, and so, I, I, I'm always having, I'm always adding and taking away from that, but really trying to consolidate time.
So, if I'm in my car, I might be listening to a podcast or I might be calling my parents. Or calling an old friend you know, I don't, I'm not just occasionally I'll just listen to music and but, but I'm trying to make every hour as productive as possible. That's been a, I would say a big thing of that I've learned over the last year and that now I do have more elective time for myself so, now that I am running my own practice or I am able to.
Achieve a better work life balance. And so, one thing that I've that it's kind of a struggle that I've been focusing on this year is when I do have downtime away from work and I am with my kids to actually stop multitasking, you know, that's, and, and just enjoy the moment. I recently read this book that I recommend for, you know, anyway, it's called happier hour.
It was, it was written by a professor at UCLA who she, she actually teaches a class on happiness there. But it's a very good It really hit, hit home with me because she's a multitasking mom and whatnot. And so, so basically learning when I can actively multitask and when I can be busy, busy, busy, and then being able to transfer when I'm with my kids and with my family and turn it off and being able to just enjoy the present.
So, that's something that I'm not, I mean, I'm not saying I'm an expert at, I'm getting better at, but then. And those times when I'm not with my kids and my and not with my husband using that time as wisely as possible. And so, that's just it's a constant balance, but really being able to use your every minute wisely.
Do you ever feel burnt out? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, luckily, I absolutely love what I do. I enjoy, like I, I get happiness from my job. Thereβre days where I'll have a run of difficult patients where, you know, whether it's a skin cancer patient or even a, or a cosmetic patient. Where at the end of the day, I'm spent, you know, I'm mentally drained because I've been I typically will have one long clinic day and some days, those days are full of just happy post op patients or people who are planning to have surgery.
And those are like, very energetic, happy days, but then some days I'll have a back-to-back run of people who are. You know, sad from whatever that, you know, skin cancer they have, or they're, you know, not, they don't love their outcome or whatever it may be. Or, you know, I just feel like I'm dragging, I feel like I'm not doing my best.
And so, those days, yeah, it's not that I'm burnt out, but I, I just feel, you know, I need something to uplift me and that's where, you know, physical exercise and being outside helps a lot. So, after when I'll get home, I'll try to go for a walk with my kids or walk with my dog or just being. Kind of turning that off and being able to switch over because it's important for me not to carry that with me home.
I mean, as a physician, if you're a good doctor and you care about your patients, some, you know, it's normal to, to not be able to get that off your mind sometimes. But I've gotten better about that because I know that if you go into every day and you truly are doing your best and you truly are treating everyone like you treat, would treat your mom or you treat your, you know, family member and you spend adequate amount of time with each patient, whatever they need, because that's their time they're devoting to you.
And if you devote that time to them and you truly do not cut corners and you do your best, then, you know, nobody's perfect. And so, at the end of the day you should be, I, I, I, and I've gotten better about this, being able to turn that off and be able to devote all my time for my kids, knowing that I did.
the best I could that day. And so, there's definitely days where are harder where I, you know, I do feel burnt out or that, you know, I just feel like, oh, mentally drained. I did like this, it was just not the best day, but doing whatever I can to kind of snap out of that when I'm, when I do leave the office specifically just trying to, you know, spend time with my kids or be outside or exercise the exercise thing.
You know, that, that's a, that's a hard thing for me to try to do on my own. So, my morning time is my, you know, I, I try to get that protected for myself to exercise, but even if it's just a short walk, just to kind of reset.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, the exercise I love it's the meditating. I don't know how you're type A and meditating at the same time. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
I struggle with that and I try over and over to sit still and. Yeah. I just gave up. I said, you know what? I'm just going to meditate and walk at the same time. I can't.
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, it's really hard. For nature grounds me. So, we recently splurged and joined a boat club and that was honestly one of the best things that we could do.
So, Lake Austin is absolutely beautiful. It's just like, you feel like you're not even in. America. It's so, pretty with the hill country area and just being out there with my kids. I'm able to completely decompress and just like be with them in nature. Our dog can come out. And so, that's been a really kind of great thing that we've been doing on the weekends.
And that is just, it's just very healing being out there. And I'm able to turn off my brain because that's, that's the hardest thing is for the past 10, 15 years, I have been 90 to nothing to be able to Have my kids and, you know, run a household and run a practice. You have, you have to be able to do that.
You have to be able to multitask, but so, that's really my biggest learning challenge of probably the future in the next few years is being able to, to, to turn it off and, and be able to do both where you multitask when it's time, but also being able to enjoy the present.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, any advice for anybody coming up or thinking about switching?
We talk a lot on this podcast about somebody in a hospital wanting to get out and go to private, somebody private, wanting to go back to the hospital, like every scenario on the planet. Any advice for others who are thinking about shifting? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, I mean, I think that you, you really need to, depending on what your motivating factor, like my motivating factor, I've always loved my career, but my family is now taking it.
Luckily, I'm able, my career is flourishing, but my family is my priority. And so, I think looking inward and figuring out what, what drives you and what and, and what, what's most important. So, and then just planning it out, doing some research, our field, I mean, all of my previous mentors are, they respond in a second to an email.
And I think in general, we're all just very supportive of each other. And so, don't, if you're a burnout and you're setting, whether that be that you're in private practice and you're grinding and you're not happy there, you're in the hospital setting and you want to get out, then it just takes, you know, a few steps to plan it and getting and finding a support system and finding somebody else that's out in that field, you know, out in that where your goal is and they can definitely guide you and help you.
You know, I feel like I've spent the last 10 years just grinding and grinding and grinding to get to where I am. And I really haven't, you know, done a great job of offering my wisdom and knowledge I've gained along the years of being able to, you know balance that out. So, that's something that I look forward to in the future is being able to mentor mom, you know, residents who want to be a mom and want to be able to balance it.
And, and we're in, we're currently, you know, in, in the interview season right now for our fellows. And it's just really great to see these young people coming up and I'm excited to be able to mentor them, not only on the surgical side, but also, you know, how to, how to balance it all.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, they need help because there's nothing easy about what you're doing, but no, but you guys make it look easy because I always wonder about that. Like, wow, how are you doing that? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: I mean, I can't take away my spouse and my spouse is that I haven't really brought him up, but he has been an amazing support system. Whenever he proposed to me, we we've been together now, 15 years, we met in 2007. Whenever he proposed to me, we were married, we're dating a few years.
My dad, he had that, you know, private meeting with my dad and my dad. Said to him this is before I was even in med school, my dad said to him, like, do not ever hold her back, whatever she wants to do, let her go all the way. And he stayed true to that. And so, you know, his career it, it, I wouldn't say it didn't take the backseat, but cause he was, he was, he's the one who supported me the whole, all along the way.
And, and, you know, it was with the what basically the. The one who brought in the money to get to allow us to do these things that we did. But he's also been an incredible, incredible dad too. So, not only has he financially been there, but you know, he's, he's transitioned to more maternal roles when he's had to being the one that with his, with him working from home, his job's always been more flexible than mine.
So, you know, if we have a sick kid, usually it's him cause I'd have to cancel. and where he can kind of, you know, still work from home and whatnot. So, having him as a support system has been, I don't think I could have done it otherwise. So, whether it be your parent or your spouse, you know, leaning on the people in your life that love you, they, they want to help.
If I've had a conference where I'm going to need to be gone for a few nights, we'll, we'll fly in a grandparent. I mean, I would say. That's the biggest negative of being in Austin is that we're, we're not close to grandparents, but now with, with plane rides or they're an hour away, you know, so, they can get here pretty quickly.
And they see it. They FaceTime and video call. They can see our kids frequently, but having a support system is huge. I mean, I did a lot of it on my own with You know, being able to multitask, but a lot of it was having a great, a great support system.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I definitely to him for being surrounded by four women. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Hopefully. Oh, wow. I know. I know. And he's crazy. He would have another kid. I'm like, nope, nope. Yeah, we have our, we have our boy dogs, so, we're, we're all good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: At least he's got that. Yeah. Does he have a man cave or did he take over the garage or? How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah, I mean, he has his office. That's kind of his man, his man cave.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, for sure. So, last question, tell us something we don't know about you. How did or does this impact your journey on going from fellow to partner?
Dr. Erin Smith: I'm an avid music lover. I wish I had, I wish, I don't play any instruments. My kids are playing instruments because I want to live vicariously through them one day. But if I, if I had to retire, I would, and I could do something else in a future life.
I would want to be in a band. I you know, that Austin, the music scene here is incredible. And I that's I, I take my kids to shows all the time. That's, The great thing about the city is it's super kid friendly. And so, we are, we are constantly going to outdoor festivals and music you know, as much as we can.
So, that's, that's kind of what another thing that kind of grounds me is, is being, is hearing music, being around music, black specifically live music. I love it. So, that's another thing that can kind of relax my brain and make me just. Chill out and enjoy the moment. Do they still have Southwest-by-Southwest or whatever that was called?
Southwest-by-Southwest. It's really cool that, yeah, so, that's been a really, I had no idea what it was when it first, when I first moved here. But it's a basically a, you know, a two-week music fest. It's music, it's film, it's a comedy. Art all of the above tech and we're basically, it's a big conference, but you get to discover a lot of really cool up and coming acts all different genres of music.
So, and it's always, it's been during my, my kids spring break, which is actually a busy time for me surgically. So, we have been going at it, you know, doing a trip with them for like president's day weekend. I've been staying in town for spring break and working just because people want to have surgery there in that week.
And then enjoying the South by Southwest in the evening. So, that's been really fun. So, great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's so, nice talking with you on your journey from fellow to partner. I wish you all the luck in the world. I'm sure I'll be watching your career as you move up the ranks from fellow to partner, and how could they get ahold of you if they wanted to get, get in touch?
Dr. Erin Smith: Yeah. So, just reaching out to the practice my practice email. I'm just drsmith@buckinghamcenter.com. drsmith@buckinghamcenter.Com. Or if you call the practice and you can always reach me that way as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Terrific. Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us on this episode of going from fellow to partner.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Smith, you can reach out to her website at, BuckinghamFacialPlastics.com/Dr-Erin-Smith.
A big thanks to Dr. Smith for sharing her journey on going from fellow to partner.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βFellow to Partner β with Dr. Erin Smithβ.
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β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and my interview with AACS President β Alexander W. Sobel, DO.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Interview with AACS President β Dr. Alexander W. Sobel".
Dr. Sobel (AACS President) is a cosmetic & reconstructive surgeon for the face and body in private practice in Bellevue, WA.
Dr. Sobel (AACS President) has lectured and published research in The American Journal of Cosmetic Surgery and is a fellowship director training new up-and-coming surgeons.
Heβs also the past president of the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery and current President of The American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery (AACS).
We talked about his journey from joining a practice to solo practice, building out a new space with (2) ORs, as well as goals he wants to achieve during his AACS Presidency.
Dr. Sobel's email:
drsobel@andersonsobelcosmetic.com
AACS website:
https://www.cosmeticsurgery.org/
AACS LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-academy-of-cosmetic-surgery/
Visit Dr. Sobel's website P.S. If you missed this earlier this week, please check out my video on "Cash-Paying Patients on Autopilot" and Shift to Cosmetic Patients on Demand.
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Transcript:
Interview with AACS President β Dr. Alexander W. Sobel Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the AACS President β Alexander Sobel, DO. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, I'm very excited about today's guest. It's Dr. Alexander Sobel (AACS President). He's a cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon for the face and body. He's been in practice for 15 years located in Bellevue, Washington. Now, Dr. Sobel (AACS President) has lectured and published research in the American Journal of Cosmetic Surgery. Now, he's also very involved in medical associations.
He's actually the past president of the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery, and he's the current president of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery (AACS). So, we're going to talk more about that as well.
So, Dr. Sobel, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, hello indeed to all, and thank you so, much, Catherine.
It's an honor to be with you today and with our collective audience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, thanks so, much. So, Dr. Sobel, what specialty did you start with? And then how did you transition or add more procedures to it? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, I started with, I don't know what I'm going to do with my life, but I think I want to be a surgeon mostly because the surgery department, you know, well, they were nice to me.
So, I found my way into otolaryngology head and neck surgery without a real clear career path. However, very shortly in, I had a mentor, or a resident a couple of years ahead of me. Who was aware of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery training programs, very interested in facelifting surgery and pursued a fellowship in cosmetic surgery.
So, I followed behind him to another fellowship program. But I wanted something, something more than auto HNS. Auto HNS is a great specialty. It's a specialty, a collection of specialties. However, once you looked under the hood of What cosmetic surgery is really about it can become infatuated and thralling and all time and mind occupying in the in the best possible ways.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you eventually expect to go into private practice? Like, did you decide, wait a second, I'm not going to work in a hospital, or did you work in a hospital and then journey to? What was your journey to get into solo? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, I had to grow up, right? So, so, so, I was doing my, my residency and then I had a path into fellowship, which seemed like a good idea because, well, I was very interested in cosmetic procedures, but Knowing that I was going to get in my, a plaque in my wall that said otolaryngology head and neck surgery, facial plastic surgery.
I really didn't know how to do a facelift or rhinoplasty. I'd done a few and I had some exposure to it. So, a fellowship seemed like a really good idea. Now, fellowships, well, since Medicare doesn't pay for cosmetic surgery, it's really hard to get training in anything cosmetic. In the hospital environment.
So, you have to fellowship where that where those procedures are actually happening in the environment of care of a private office. So, having done one of those fellowships and, you know, doing my career planning along the way, thinking to myself, well, if I want to be a cosmetic surgeon, I'm going to have to learn how to run a business.
Because you can't do it. Well, I don't want to say you can't. Some do and some do it really well out of a hospital, but that is certainly not the easiest way forward in most states.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you recommend a fellowship for everybody who I just wonder what do people do nowadays when they've had the training but zero business and marketing training? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Is the fellowship the way to go or you just try to read every book you can or go get an MBA, which is what I did, but I don't think a surgeon needs an MBA. I think you need an MBA in your plastic surgery practice like specific to you to shortcut it because you don't have. Three to five years to go find another degree. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: No. And even if you have the three to five years, because we have members in the academy who are MBAs and they're super great about business, what makes them super great is they know how to find the right people. And to communicate with them, give them what they need, respond to what they ask for, and then get out of their way and let them make good decisions, help the surgeon learn to make good decisions.
That's an invaluable part of a fellowship program because you see that happening real time. Most fellowship programs are, well, they're successful because they're required to have a large case volume to be able to even accept fellows. Okay. So, that means they must have figured something out. And usually, they figured out how to surround themselves with good people.
And that's a really important skill for any cosmetic surgeon or anyone who wants to run their own business for that matter.
Catherine Maley, MBA: We've talked a lot about that on the podcast where when you're training to be a surgeon, you're following the rules. There's not a lot of room to be creative there. You've got to get these procedures down. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
But then when you get in solo practice, Now you do need to be entrepreneurial. Now you do need to open your mind and say, I'm not going to do what everybody else is doing. That is such a mind shift change. Do you feel that like when training versus real life, how different are the two? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: I did, and I no longer feel that way and I'll tell you what I learned.
Okay. What I started with was, well, all right. It's a choose your own venture. Yes. Be entrepreneurial. Think big. What's your plan? How are you going to figure it out? Let's try to write a budget. And then you, then I realized, well, I don't know how to do any of those things. I can make a lot of guesses, but if, if your early, your early axioms, the sort of the, the, the ground level guesses are wrong, then everything else you can be super clever about.
Ends up wrong really fast. Well, as it turns out, business is business. And if you go read some books and even if it's not the perfect book and it, it doesn't apply directly, and you just want to read cosmetic surgery books about how to succeed in cosmetic surgery, it actually doesn't work, we're, we're no different.
I think in the industry. As really anyone else. So, what do we need? We need good information from tested techniques to learn how to evaluate. Options and opportunities so, that we're not just guessing and believe. Well, you know this, Catherine, I mean, you come out of residency or fellowship or whatever your path is, and everyone wants to help.
Bless them. And they really do. I mean, some of them have the secondary intent of they've got to make a dollar, but most people want to see you do well. And whether they're pulling things out of the hat, like I'll have an event, do it, this, do it, you need to do this. And then everything will glitter and sparkle.
But, you know, ultimately, it's not their business. You know, their business is health. That's, that hangs in the balance. So, when I realized the combination of, well, I don't need to agree with every outside influence that has a suggestion for me, and I can stop saying, well, my practice is different because it's cosmetic surgery or my business is different because it's medicine or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And just start reading and start listening. Decision making got a lot easier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There is such a balance there because you do want to learn to see what else is going on out there. And you want to stay up to date with what's happening with marketing and business strategies. But you're absolutely right. A business is a business. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
I like to add a lot of spin to it for our industry, but it's still just business. You're still attracting customers. You're converting them to paid clients, you're hopefully retaining them, so, it all I mean what might get a little different is the legal, you know, I would specialize in that for sure. So, back to here you are, you've got your fellowships, and now it's time to go into practice. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Did you hook up with somebody else first, which I believe you did, is that right? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah, absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And how did you make that decision? Like any, any tips on how do you join a practice that, was it thriving? Did he have a good name? All of that. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: No, I made, I'm now having the rear-view benefit of training or having many fellows training with me, which is such a blessing and watching their path and their transition.
A lot of them and I included made a transition out of convenience. So, what is more convenient than joining one of your fellowship faculty? You know them, you've been around them you know, the environment of care, you know, all the people involved, you know, the neighborhood. So, it wasn't an immediate obvious thing to do because, you know, that practice probably, well, it didn't have room for two surgeons.
There wasn't, there wasn't enough commerce going on. So, that put a lot of pressure on the situation. Eventually it didn't work out because there wasn't enough. There wasn't enough commerce. But nowadays I think there are a lot I don't want to upset anybody as I do believe it's hard to transition to practice now.
And we really want people to succeed in doing that right. But there are more opportunities. Corporate practice in medicine has gotten a lot more organized and a lot more pro patient, pro patient safety. And I think there's, there's, there is room for, for young surgeons to find themselves working under big organizations while they develop their own voice and decide, well, do I want to be an employee of someone else?
Or do I want to have my own practice? What do I want my next 10 years to look like? While I can make a living and, you know, make those decisions not out of convenience or out of fear or out of, I don't know what I'm going to do next, but you know, take some time and talk to good people who can help them make those decisions in an informed way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what else I'm learning as I get older, a lot of times it's just making the decision and then making it right. It's not making the right decision. It's making the decision right. But you need to make some pretty good educated guesses. So, I would completely agree. Talk to everybody. I would go visit some practices, those who took over somebody else's, those who started their own. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
There's no need to keep making the same mistakes everybody else has made, but the issue is you have your own mindset and your own vision and you're trying to, that's why I think it's so, difficult for doctors to join each other. Like when you joined that other doctor, did you have the same values and vision for the practice? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
And if not, how quickly did that become apparent? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Oh. Well, no. I didn't know how to look for it. I didn't know how to articulate it for myself and for all those listening you know, take away nothing else from the mistakes that I've made is, is learn your value proposition, not just for your business, but what do you as.
Jane Doe, Joe Doe, whoever you are, what, what is your value proposition to your patients and be able to distill that into about two words. It's helped me organize myself, but even when days are hard, days are easy, but also would have helped that compatibility test. You know, I probably would have still made the same dumb decision, but I would have, you know, gotten to the punchline faster, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how did you disengage from that scenario? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Oh. Well, just having not enough money into the practice kind of made it want to fall apart. And in the meantime, a colleague who was near retirement at the time I, I joined the, the, my first adventure he was close to retirement and in a position where he felt a little bit more pressure to sell his practice, which worked out well for me in the end.
I think I got a very fair deal. He did too. And then we were off to the races.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's a really good avenue. I think if you know that somebody is going to retire, what I love about that is he's much more open to negotiating when he has some why behind why he wants to wrap it up. It's when there's no reason to like there's not no pressure for him to do it on the negotiations go can go on and on, but did he stay put for a while how did you to transition from him to you. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
And you think it's a good decision. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, the intent was he would stay put for a while. But at that point you know, very talented surgeon in his 70s was looking forward to retirement and. The long process he took to sell and transition his practice took a toll on his staff and his employees. And when I joined, there was a lot of friction, not between myself and the employees, but the retiring surgeon.
And it We had made the arrangement that he would, he would help the business continue as a going concern. Right. And then and be available at my need or pleasure. And we decided mutually though. I love the guy. And I still see him periodically. Now over 10 years later that it wasn't the best interest of the practice for him to be around.
So, what should have been a year. Lasted about six weeks, maybe.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay. That's great. At least you figured that out early on. Would you say that's still a viable option in today's world is for a new guy, a new, a new fellow coming out of I'm just wondering what are the fellows going to do now? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
How do you enter the marketplace in today's world with today's environment? Do you have any tips for how to do that? Is it still viable though to buy somebody else's practice or should you just go it alone and get out your own loan and give it a shot? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: I think have your foot. I mean, just if you can turn into an octopus and put a foot in every door so, that you're not making decisions out of, you know, having to, you're making want to decisions, which will you always empowers the decision maker.
So, if you're If you start conversations early, especially in the academy, well, you know, who's doing what and what practice, who might be looking for an associate, a partner who might be looking to leave because you never know when those conversations are going to come back in your benefit, just like it happened with me.
Talk to corporate practice of medicine and find out what they're about. Find out if there's any compatibility. Don't give up your primary specialty too early necessarily because you may really feel painted in the corner, you know, as I did it, you know, everything turned out great, but isn't it nice to make decisions and sleep at night too.
So, when you the, there are many options, but having some money flowing and. Doing cosmetic surgery, doing cosmetic procedures, being in the industry you love and not just waiting for it to happen from your primary specialty, walking that tightrope. Well, I think it's a little bit narrower nowadays, I think is the way to do it.
Tons of options out there. A lot of a lot of people come to me, ask, well, well, yeah, how do you do that? The bank doesn't want to lend me money. Well, you can't just talk to one bank and banks have different appetites for different kinds of lending at different times. And they might call, you know Bank A might call it like a health care provider loan, but that has nothing to do with somebody who doesn't have an accounts receivable.
If you don't take insurance, you don't qualify for that loan. And now you get discouraged. Well, don't because another bank may have another program, but you, it's tough. It takes a lot of time. And you got to talk to the bank salespeople and eventually the underwriters find out what's an option. If that doesn't work, if the If the current owner, soon to be retiree is erudite about the situation at all, they don't necessarily want a big payout all at once either.
I mean, there is a tax advantage that they get paid over time, or maybe they, they, they hold the note. That could be an advantage. And it's a great advantage for the new surgeon because now the old surgeon Or retiring because they could be young has some skin in the game. They need this arrangement to work.
So, the loan doesn't get defaulted on. And I love those arrangements because signing a contract, you know, goodwill. What is it worth? It's worth as much as the lady or the gentleman retiring is going to put into it. And our new grads people who are entering the cosmetic arena, they need more than that.
Because we want them to succeed what are you buying in today's world? Then if it's not necessarily goodwill, then what are you buying? Because I don't know if the staff's going to stay, like, are you trying to buy their staff, their long, their long-term lease? What, what is the value to a to a fellow, you know, who wants to buy a practice?
I think there's perceived value and actual value. Actual value, I think, unfortunately, is relatively low because the assets of the practice, especially in a cosmetic practice. Yeah. You've got some fixed things, some lasers that are depreciating. And honestly, they may or not, may or may not fire the day after whoever's retiring leave.
So, you can't. Count on them. The staff could end up being a liability, though they might seem like an asset on a profit and loss statement. So, however, I think all of us have limits as to how many decisions we can make in a day. And if we can reduce the number, By having who we think are good staff that have their policies and procedures that we may very well as, as the new person coming on board and starting our career, we may completely redefine them in a year around our value proposition and our values.
They become our policies and procedures and the staff. Either needs to be led into alignment with good leadership, or you have to find new staff. Having that honeymoon period of, of parachuting into a situation that's stable, that's generating revenue, I think that has value, even though you may get rid of it in the short term.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Let's just talk about staff for a second. There have been challenges all over the nation. You know, post COVID. Are you experiencing that yourself? And if so, any tips for not just hiring staff, but finding them, hiring them and motivating them to stay put and do a good job? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah. Gosh. Tips.
We'll start with those. We're, we're all in this together. Talk to good people. I mean, I've really enjoyed the conversations I've, I've had with you, Catherine. I mean, we went from a you know, two years ago, a very challenging supply chain. Type scenario. And I remember talking to my staff. Well, these are the challenges with supply chain and how we're going to navigate it.
And we did really well. And that really helped us. And now I find myself because I can't always have the conversation with my staff navigating staff challenges. The, the workforce is completely different. We all know it. It's just. Easier to say, okay, we get that. We don't get it. We're going to try to roll with it, try to figure it out as best we can.
But as I, as I go, as I crawl and I'll be totally honest, I am crawling through the HR quagmire. Not that I'm bad people, but I have personally, perhaps old leadership styles that are not necessarily useful or germane to the work workplace as it is now. And so, I guess I would ask collectively that we all work together and help, help each other find new best practices in hiring and firing understanding when resumes, an abundance of resumes come in and the, the time in a position is going from three years to three months to three weeks.
And that's becoming a new norm. What are the things can we do to help identify great talent, and then once we bring them on board to nurture them to develop them so, that they help develop us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: A couple tips I have, is to put a lot more protocol into interviewing than ever before because it is become a very much a numbers game and you're trying to figure out their own values and do they have anything to do with your values and you're looking for longer term.
So, I wouldn't have everybody and their brother interviewing. I would set up a process where I make them do things throughout this interview process. Number one, just to see if they can follow directions, if they can show up on time, if they're articulate and they can think on their feet. And I would just have, like, I would have them email you, I would have them FaceTime you text you just do a lot more up front before you have them come in your office.
Because if they can't get through that part, you know, they're not going to get through the job itself. So, and then once you bring them on board, here's my new thought, process the heck out of your practice. And I talk about this a lot in my trainings and my consulting. If you can set up a process, And you do it right, somebody could walk away from your position back position, and somebody else could walk right in because you have such good processes set up, and now they don't have to learn that part, they just have to learn the nuances of your particular personality or your practice but.
The protocols are set just like in surgery. You know, I would treat it just like in surgery. If you can get that tightened up, then it doesn't matter so, much if they only stay for six months, at least the learning curve is not so, difficult. So, anyway, that's my two cents. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, important to sense because that's, that's your armor.
And all of this that, you know, if you are, you have a staff of so, many and you have to contract for whatever reason, the policies and the processes don't change, the people can change and they can change their spots on the bus. Of course, we know how valuable that is. If I may, Catherine, I want to ask you a question because you reminded me of this one.
So, Two different modes of thinking in in hiring for cosmetic practices that I've heard along the years. There's one that I favor, but I could be wrong about it. And the one that I favor is higher to your culture, and that is just generally get people around you that are, you know, in some way, you know, feel familiar.
And, and, and work the team around that familiar form of culture. Another form of thinking that I've seen deployed very, very well is well develop your office culture really, really strong and hire people who are a little bit incongruous knowing that. deploying people with, with a different type of culture, different type of energy can be very synergistic and especially on the patient side, helps patients identify someone in the office that they feel most naturally responsive to any advice about those two very disparate schools of thinking and hiring.
Catherine Maley, MBA: First, I would go with the values that you really need in your practice. So, for example, do they need to be honest? See, I always do this exercise, like, what do you really value? Not the nitty gritty, the characteristics. So, you, like, value, patient centric, dependable, team player. Team player is where you, where that, what your scenario, that's where we get muddled up. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Because, sometimes. They become rogue and they're going to do it their way and their way or the highway. Instead, I would just make sure at the beginning the characteristics never change. They were a people person when they came on board or a team player and they're still a team player. You know, like they can be creative but they really are there for the good of the practice.
If you can get those kind of fundamental values of honesty, reliability, They always do their best. I love those, I mean, God, if we could only have all of those. That, those kind of people are still nimble enough to add a little of their flair, but for the good of the practice, not for the good of themselves.
You know, so, that's what I would do to get really clear about the characteristic values that you need them to be as a person. And then they can have a little leeway after they show some skills. Because quite frankly, There are so, many. I have been so, shocked in certain practices where they hire this little silly girl.
I'm just saying, and she ends up being the rock star. It's just she has that in her to do her best. Be everything she can be open to learning and growing, and she was like an au pair when they hired her and now, she's the office manager. So, those are just. That's where you're trying to stay open minded, but please like make sure they have the right stuff just to begin with, you know? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: That's tremendous wisdom, Catherine. As we sift through resumes and well, it's natural is to look for education training experience. But if you are looking, your mind is open for the au pair destined to be the business manager, then there's a lot more opportunity. All the way around.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I mean, you'll take an inexperienced, open minded, growth, growth focused person any day over.
The know it all who is completely closed. She knows what's going on. That's not how we used to at our practice where I was like, you don't need to hear that all day So, and just so, you know, there's nothing easy about HR in today's world. I have wow I just I personally, used to do a lot of hiring and now, Iβm just so wary of it because it's very time consuming and you just don't know what you're getting and I just find it so, fascinating that a whole Psychology has shifted with so, many people.
It's just been so, interesting to watch. My goodness. Okay. So, onto something more positive, which is, which is you just moved into a brand-new office with a new OR. So, please tell us what that was like. And especially the permits and the processes and anything, any mistakes you made that you wish you had avoided. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: I'd love to another decision made out of need. So, I was going really well at my past location though. The building was aging. We were, we were doing really well. We were doing a lot of surgery and it was an efficient space. I mean, we're honestly, we're killing it over there. However, the owners of the building.
Well, I learned that owners aren't necessarily predictable. They don't read business books themselves. And in, in these owners, [they] certainly had whatever their motivations were or according to the property manager, maybe no motivations at all, sort of didn't want to renew my lease, or they were willing to for about two to three years.
That does us no good. I, and anybody listening out in the audience, you know, if you're thinking about having a cosmetic surgery center or an OR, an OR, it's about a two-to-three-year project. So, a two to three year, at least that's just a Band-Aid. And it gives us no comfort. So, and I tried everything I tried buying the building.
I got some good brokers and they gave me good advice. And eventually they're like, wow, these people just don't want to make a deal. You got to find another place. Well, mercifully, I had been looking for a long time. I had my current lease 10 years, but options along the way, take an opportunity. Please.
Every time you have a lease option, at least 3 years in advance, look at spaces. Is even if you're not going to move. It's great to learn what's available and what zip codes what you might want so, that you don't have to figure out everything all at once. If a doomsday situation like mine happened.
I don't mean to be glum, but it was all fine. But at the time, it was very nerve wracking. So, I saw a bunch of spaces. I looked at virtually so, Or at least the floor plan. About a hundred. Okay. I'm just going to call out numbers to see if they're valued to anybody. Okay. So, I looked at about a hundred.
I physically visited about 30. And I, and I visited some that I didn't even think were workable. You, you, you know, just to get a sense of what could happen. And here in the Seattle Bellevue area, everything, the architecture is so, interesting and unique, but that doesn't serve itself well to surgery centers that do really well.
If they're a square. Okay, we talk about why then, but he's interested, but, but squares are great and Bellevue doesn't have any squares. So, we had to find a place that was sort of a square and wasn't just a mini walk-up building. Many walk-up buildings were great because you have access to the roof.
You can put in a generator, all the things you need for life safety. It can reduce your costs hugely and the fire safety code. I mean, we're talking big dollars. If you can just have you. The site environmental characteristics that are correct for fire and life safety that reduces your cost a lot, but you don't want to be in a tiny building, especially if you're trying to be somewhere downtown that doesn't really work so.
Having time to look around, finding a spot with ideal characteristics that happens to be like a box, you get somewhere close, and then you find a really good architect who's not just skilled in healthcare, but understands about cosmetic surgery, and how to help you know, one of the things I've loved that you've taught me, Catherine, and, and I've, well, No problem Is the is the process of inevitability.
Okay, if we're the right practice, it's the right procedure, the right patient. Everything's a match. The Venn diagram lines up together. Then why not? Why not do a procedure? The architecture should support that. And I don't mean in a High impact. Wow. Isn't this a glamorous storefront, but how does the architecture lead the patient through the consult experience onto the procedure and for return visits for high quality of care and eventually become advocates of the practice?
Well, good architect will help you do that. And you fact check everything that they're doing with a good accreditation consultant. So, you make sure you don't have any whoops on the backend when department of health or whatever accrediting body. And I Do recommend you have an accrediting body, even if your state doesn't require one.
So, make sure that gets fact checked by not just your accrediting consultant, but also your business consultants, your sales consultants. So, it all. It all looks and feels right and matches your policies and procedures, and if you need to adapt them, the time to do that is during the architectural process to make sure everything matches up.
Of course, there are a few things that I wish are a little bit different about the space that we built, but you know, every day I get to come to the office and enjoy how the policies, procedures, protocols played out in a very workable. space that supports me, the staff, the patients, it all works awesome.
Now, who is working against you? Everybody I, I thought was going to be working against me, mostly you know, supply chain turns out, well, yeah, they're a problem, but if you get a good architect, good contractor, They'll figure it out. You're not going to buy a new generator. You're going to get on the list for refurbished generator.
They're going to help you navigate that. Having good people and having them advising you and listen to them and making sure that you've got a few years to figure it out makes all that happen. Where I got completely blown off course. And both cost and timing was not actually Department of Health regulation, but that was challenging to talk about that in a second, but was with local municipal permitting and honestly misunderstandings between the permit team, the expedited permit people our contract, everybody.
Gosh, weeks and months would go by and finally, what it took was me getting on a phone call to explain it to the municipal perimeter what we were trying to do about life safety, and then they got it, and I didn't realize how well. People in local government respond better to the surgeon or the person with the vested interest than the people working on their behalf.
So, I recommend you get on those calls. I wish I hadn't made that mistake. Get on the permanent calls. You're not going to screw anything up. I thought like, well, they don't want me there. Get on there. Listen. Eventually become an active participant, you will move your project along faster. Same thing with Department of Health, you know, in the postmortem of gosh, what took so, long, not just my disinvolvement, because I didn't know I was supposed to be involved.
Well, I should have known better. And also, the fact that they are having some of the work. Workforce. Turbulence that we're having in the industry. So, with Department of Health, my project started with the same permitting gentleman from 10 years ago, my, for my last project. Well, within a week, he was gone. I had five new permitters.
During a year long process in the in the playbook changed subtly each time, and that was very jarring and very expensive with municipal government. They were very short staffed, had junior surveyors, and they were transitioning from a virtual to hybrid environment. And they were having trouble keeping track of their files.
So, a lot of the logistics were, well, did you receive what, what we sent you? Okay, good. You received it. But in two weeks, if they say they don't have something, but they said they received it, it's still you, the surgeon's problem, not their problem. And you really can't point out to them that they lost it.
You just need to stay with them and make sure that they have everything they need to give you a yes. No, that's long, wouldn't it? Forgive me. I've been living this for a few years, but I think that sharing some of those challenges will be helpful to others.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Actually, I think that's a really big tip that you got involved. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
You literally made some phone calls usually because everyone runs into the permit problem. And usually it's because the, there's a lot of politics involved or something, and somebody doesn't know somebody that they need to know to get it done. You know, it's like becomes this game of who do you know, who can.
Push this through on. But in your case, you pushed it through yourself. That's really interesting. I haven't heard that before. So, give that a shot. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah, give everything a shot. And in now that we're permitted, we've been in the space for seven months doing great colleagues and competition have come out and asked me for help.
First, they share anything and anybody wants to ask me anything. I'll have happy to share, share my advice. But I've, I've watched them have to endure the playbook continuing to change. And so, unfortunately, you know, maybe, maybe my play for the, the, the get on the, the permitting phone calls. Well, I don't think that's ever going to be bad wisdom.
But the, but the playbook changes and keep an open mind. And if you hear no take, it seriously. And then try to figure out why and try to figure out if you can get a different answer. I mean, it's not just talking to one department trying to play you know, let's make a deal. But oftentimes the nose is in an interpretation of code and policy.
And if you work hard at it, you can get there. And I hear, I hear all the time. Well, my architect says we can't do that. Well, we just did that. So, again, we're good at what we do as surgeons. That's, that's our job, but understand that there might be a surgeon you're more comfortable going to for rhinoplasty and the surgeon you're more comfortable for breast lift.
Well, keep that in mind when you're talking to architects, perimeters, surveyors, and contractors and everybody else.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the tricky part for all of you is you have a thriving practice that has to transition overnight and half the time your lease has run out. Now you're now you're homeless, you know, because your place isn't ready. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
How, how over budget was it or how over extended did the time go from the time you thought it was going to be ready to the time it was, was that an issue. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: It was a huge issue. We were supposed to be done in May of 2022, and that was with a conservative timeline, and we moved in in a hurry because we're in holdover on our prior lease in December of 2022.
And I can't thank the Washington Department of Health enough. They, they understood our situation. They worked very, very hard to the extremes of their ability. to help us continue our patient care. Can't always count on that, but, but they really came through for us. Now, budget, I had learned something about that.
The first time I had remodeled an OR you know, multiply the number times three and you'll get bids all over the place. And even if you, you get a hard bid. And we want it to cost a certain amount of money. I think all of us as surgeons have it, well, even consumers. I mean, we talk to patients about how much we feel an abdominal plastic should cost.
How do they feel about it? We have a set value. And things can feel, you know, traumatizing if you get out of that scope of value. However, Even in an expensive build out and ours was pretty pricey. It was about 500 per square foot. It could be different you know, for everybody. So, it'd be alarmed by those numbers, but initial bids, I got a very reckless bid at about 125 per square foot.
So, good to be true. Of course, it is right. And everywhere in between, you know, what's, what is missing, what am I missing? And then understanding that they're unanticipated things. All it takes is an inspector to say, you know, Hey, I don't like something about life safety. And that could be 100, 000 expense that you're not prepared for.
So, how do you prepare for it? Ideally have money in your general operating. Revenue account the, the ideal time to do this, and you don't always get to do it when it's ideal, but when you have significant net profit, okay, because that'll help you not do things out of fear or financial concern, but write it into your budget and figure it out, even if you're going to write yourself your own note over, over three years, five years, 10 years, figure out what that is.
And make that give that number a lot of headroom, maybe a two and a half to three times multiplier and Go to the bank too. I did that accidentally, honestly, on a whim, just to, you know, who, who knows what's going to happen. I mean, what happened? I I'm a solo practice. I do all my injections. I do just about everything myself.
And love doing it that way. But what happens to me, I have a disability insurance, but we need to have some money in the bank for a knee outage. So, I, I got a commitment for a loan from the bank that actually really didn't take at the end of the day. And I leveraged an SBA loan from during COVID.
That's really low interest rates. You, you get with your financial advisors and think creatively about how to how to level this playing field. So, that you can handle what the inspectors or what might come up during the course of events and. Very, very importantly, talk to your tax people about it.
I worked under the assumption that these sort of these sort of things can be written off against income immediately, and that's not true at all. The standard appreciation is almost 40 years. So, your tax consultant will not only warn you about that. But teach you about a very handy instrument called accelerated depreciation, where other consultants can help you.
I got to pay him a little bit, but you can accelerate your depreciation and have it now so, you can make sure that your cash balance balances at the end of the year and that you have a favorable, favorable outcome with regards to taxes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That was a really good tip. Accelerated depreciation. Huge! Oh my gosh, I would have died without that one. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Did you grow this did you build this new practice for growth? Like, are there any plans to expand, like add a med spa, or add nurse injectors, or add associates, or make some of the fellows, partners? What is your plan for growth? Or is there one? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, no I, I already explained how poor of a visionary I am sometimes, but I'm having a lot of fun.
Okay. And so, we, when I had in mind doing this, well, how do I reproduce as much fun as possible? Because it is fun and I want to keep doing that. So, I, I made more exam rooms so, that I can do what I do with a few more patients at once. And if I find someone else like minded, well, they can do it alongside me.
Got a great PR team and they tell me that, that we have inquiry volume for, for other surgeons. So. If and several. So, if the right fit comes along, especially one that's interested in injecting and taking care of skin and doing everything I do. Well, we have six identically appointed exam console treatment injection rooms.
They're all ready to go in their mirror images. In terms of the OR facility. Yeah, we bought, we built two beautiful ORs. I don't go back and forth but the OR, the second OR is there that, you know, honestly, five surgeons at maximum capacity could be using this center all at once. We even have a smaller procedure room.
It's all designed for that growth. If that's the trajectory that we end up going in. Yes, if we if we, if we did want to have other injectors there's room for that too, more estheticians, more really anything. But what I love most about it is it suits itself better for teaching.
Than the prior facility. There's just more room, more room for observers and more room for people to come to conferences here again, all in the service of fun. So, hopefully you know, we do find some people that that want to be want to be part of this this this great project. But if we don't, we're going pretty good with just me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You've been so, active in medical organizations and I wanted to talk about that because I believe you have been very involved in three, especially your new appointment this year. Can you talk about that and, and what you learned from being so, involved in various groups? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Well, gosh, I continue to learn everything from being involved in groups and especially about business.
I mean, gosh stewardship of 501c3s, 501c6s where the profit margins are, there are no profit margins. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's running the organization or helping the organization run. And so, it can keep doing the great work that it does while cultivating institutional knowledge. There are policies and procedures that you can develop, learn so, much about everything along the way and continue to do so.
And it's such a great a great way to be part of something bigger. than your own practice island. You go out in cosmetic surgery. Many of us go out on our own. It's just us and our staff. And the staff have to be nice to me. I, well, I, some of them are nice to me, but isn't it nice that you can, you can interact with friends and colleagues over a shared common value, something that we enjoy so, much.
But thinking back, I had no idea how to get involved. I didn't even know I wanted to be involved. I mean, who knew It would apply to me, but you, you great people like you Dr. Mike, well, for example, and Dr. Faisal Qureshi and people very early on, right after I took my board exams, introduced themselves as I came to later learn the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery really is just about people really wanting to get to know you because they're good people.
They want to get better themselves. And they're honestly curious about. Everybody so, that that we all can get better together. So, these really neat people reach out to me. You end up joining committees, the committees. If you do good work with the committees. People asked you to do more and more things and so, privileged you know, to, you know, I think, yeah.
So, it was president of the American board of cosmetic surgery, which I loved. I love that organization for the most meaningful time. There was, was being part of the oral exam committee and then being the chair of that committee on the responsibility of delivering. high quality psychometrically evaluated exam that would help judge the, the, the, the safety of future cosmetic surgeons.
Wow, did I learn a lot. I, I joined the Washington osteopathic medical board, which I've now served on for 10 years, because I thought it was important for, for a cosmetic surgeon to know what's going on in the neighborhood. And yet I learned so, much about discipline of physicians and surgeons, but what, what the, what the role is in terms of.
Protecting the public and stewardship of that, that an individual physician can have. So, every experience I've had has been a segue into a, a new opportunity of learning, and I appreciate all those organizations for, for tolerating me, and I hope they continue to tolerate me to some extent for the future.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and your future is here right now because you're the president of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery. So, what are your plans for this year? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: During our plans, always cultivating institutional knowledge. And at the very forefront of that is advocacy. Speaking to the public, speaking with legislators, speaking with other surgeons.
We take it for granted in our individual practices that, wow, we've got a great practice of cosmetic surgery. Thank you. Everybody deserves the right to safe and effective evidence-based practice of surgery medicine, whatever that they are, whatever they have specialized in, and the patients deserve it.
So, if we have a mismatch of what patients need and desire, which is highly educated, skilled, trained cosmetic surgeons. And a need that was identified way back in the 1970s that will shoot that isn't getting trained as part of the typical residency environment. We got an organization that that coalesced to get that right.
And we're still getting it right. Not because we've been getting it wrong, but year after year. graduating fellow class after class every academy meeting, we're all collectively smarter and stronger and making sure that the public is availed of, of, of the knowledge of, of, of, of what, what the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery is doing for them directly as well as through the teaching and curation of high-quality surgeons, is, is our absolute top priority this year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I urge other cosmetic surgeons to join your group. I've been speaking for your group for years and it has grown so, much and especially the practice management. When a long time ago, when I got started, nobody was ever in the practice management. Like I'd be talking to, you know, three people because the surgeons always wanted to be. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Where the surgery was going on and now, they realize I see the business and marketing side of surgery is pretty important, too So, that room is now exploded so, I urge anybody to join the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgeons and you've got to meet Dr. Sobel and the team it's a really nice group.
They have beautiful. You can feel it at your meetings Like our last meeting was what we're San Diego or Vegas?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: San Diego.
Catherine Maley, MBA: San Diego. Yeah. And it was just so, everyone's, there's so, much camaraderie there. It was, it's just a pleasure. Nice group. So, Dr. Sobel, to wrap this up, I have to ask one more question. How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Tell us something that we don't know about you.
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Oh shoot. Well, I have a degree in music. I started out early on as a as a lover of music and someone who aspired to perhaps be a high school music teacher and studied jazz performance in classical musicology. And in, as part of the new office, we spent some money on speakers and a lot of time on the on the musical environment for the benefit of the patients and staff.
And I myself and many times people ask me, well, what does music have to do with medicine? What does it have to do with business? And you can make a joke. Well, yeah, medicine. Well, I'm business and music. Well, there's, there's, there's some starving to be had. But you alluded to this earlier about well you know, having structure, having guidelines, and if you don't have structure and guidelines, it's really, really hard to do great work.
And what I learned from music theory is, well, if you want to write a symphony, it's just a collection of structure and outline like any other great work. And once you learn those little parts of the outline. It's not so, hard. It would take me forever and what came out wouldn't be so, good, but I know where to start.
And for me, my relationship with cosmetic surgery and the business practice thereof is very much like that symphonic thinking. This is a big thing that I am not trained in, but I know there's a way to parse it up, find good people to help, and then enjoy the hell out of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's terrific. Just are you a singer or do you, are you a producer, a director? Do you play an instrument? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Yeah, I study a saxophone, saxophone. I nearly failed my vocal proficiency. My piano proficiency exams were terrible and conducting wasn't, wasn't it wasn't much more than embarrassing. But saxophone was my instrument.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, maybe we can get you to do something at the next conference coming up.
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: Let's see. Oh gosh, indeed. I can feel the blush come already.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, you and Bill Clinton, he pulled out his saxophone, didn't he?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: He did and I, I'm sure there's a backstory in how much it took him to get to that moment, but I applaud him for doing so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you play at least as well as he, or much better? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: It's been a long time since I've raised the horn, but yeah, I don't know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll bet you could pull that off. All right. So, so, Dr. Sobel this is going to wrap it up for us. How can anybody get a hold of you that would be interested in talking with you about how to do a build out or the organization? How did this impact you on becoming the AACS President, and the associated interview process, therein?
Alexander W. Sobel, DO: By any way that feels best to them from email, call in the office, smoke signal.
My email address is really easy. D R S O B E L drsobel@andersonsobelcosmetic.com. Google my name, Alex Sobel. You'll find my website, anything. Yes, my office staff is pretty good at, at, at sometimes putting up a little bit of a brick wall, but what they, they do know is that how much I enjoy the Academy X members and, and people who want to figure stuff out.
They get messages to me may have to be persistent, but I'm happy to help as best as I may.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, that's terrific. Thank you so, much. It has been a pleasure and I will see you at the next conference.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, thank you. So much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and my interview with AACS President β Alexander W. Sobel, DO.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Sobel, you can reach out to his website at, www.AndersonSobelCosmetic.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Sobel for participating in my interview with him as the AACS President.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βInterview with AACS President β Dr. Alexander W. Sobelβ.
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to be in solo practice with no debt.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Solo Practice, No Debt β with Philip Robb, Jr., MD".
People develop different money mindsets based on their upbringing, beliefs, attitudes and behavior.
And there are many money mindsets to choose from:
Scarcity, abundance, thrifty, growth, generosity, materialistic, and entrepreneurial mindsets.
Knowing yours helps you make decisions that you are comfortable with and that align with your goals, values and aspirations for a healthy relationship with money.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Philip Robb, MD, a facial plastic surgeon in private practice for the past 7 years located in Alpharetta, GA where he was raised.
Dr. Robb embraces the thrifty mindset which has paid off for him (pun intended). He sleeps better being debt free, so he stretched his resources and made prudent choices.
That has allowed him to build out his own surgical center while doing surgery 5 days/week on his termsβ¦No Debt!
That didnβt happen by luck. It was mindset.
Visit Dr. Robbβs website P.S. Earlier this week, I talked about following up on leads and that starts with your receptionist. Get 87% OFF front desk training with this one-time offerβ¦.
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Solo Practice, No Debt. β with Philip Robb, Jr., MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how itβs possible to be in solo practice with no debt. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients Are Saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's guest is Dr. Philip Robb, whoβs in solo practice with no debt. He's a cosmetic and reconstructive facial surgeon in private practice, for the past seven years, in Alpharetta, Georgia; where he was born and raised.
Now, Dr. Robb is a second-generation facial plastic surgeon. He attended Medical College of Georgia, did a surgical residency at the University of Arkansas for medical sciences, and also did a fellowship with Dr. Achi Chen, one of the country's most well-known facial plastic surgeons. All before going into solo practice with no debt.
Dr. Robb, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Thanks Catherine. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I wanted to talk to you for a while because you're one of the more up and coming. Lately, I've been talking to a lot of the guys who are kind of, you know, thinking about exiting, but not you.
You're just, you're still fairly new at this. So, first of all, how did you end up in facial plastic surgery? I did read in something on your website that I thought was really interesting. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. So, my dad is an ear, nose and throat surgeon here in in Alpharetta, which is just a little bit, 20 minutes North or so, of Atlanta.
And so, I, through medical school did, wanted to do anything except ENT. And but ultimately, I think, you know, the fields and the specialties have a way of kind of choosing you. And so, ENT was it for me. So, that was, I went into an ENT residency, did not plan on. doing facial plastic surgery at that point.
And then it was my third year of ENT residency. I was on call and a patient came in with a bad trauma and I don't know how graphic or how detailed you want me to get. And so, anyway, my one of my best friends and I, along with one of the attendees kind of worked on her all night long and she was married about six weeks after that.
This was a, this was an injury that completely. Would have could have completely marred and scarred her facial appearance and for life and but she healed great. And it was in the news. It was a really great story. But through that, I learned the positive and significant effects that. facial plastic surgery can have on people.
And so, that really stuck with me and some of the things that she said to me throughout her recovery really stuck with me. And that's what kind of ignited that spark that you really are transforming lives.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know we talk about vanity a lot in this industry and of course it's vanity, but the way I look at it although the reconstructive is much different, but just the you want to look as good as you feel kind of thing. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
There, there's a lot to be said for that because I think of it as, come on, we, we wouldn't live in a house where the paint's falling, you know, peeling and everything's falling apart. We wouldn't drive a car like that. So, why would we live in a body like that? That's how I see it. And who better to do it than people who know what they're doing, you know? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
So, good work. Keep, keep it up.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Thank you. Well, one of the things I always tell my patients, you know, this is after the surgery, but You know, people spend money on a lot of things, and a lot of these things are, you know, a car or a vacation or a watch or whatever that is for you. And, and those are all great things, but when you invest in yourself, you know, a new nose or a new neck and jawline, facial rejuvenation, these things go with you wherever you go.
They go with every outfit, they travel well with you, and so, it's an investment that really, I feel like, has its returns.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's absolutely an investment. I hear here. I can vouch for that over and over and over. So, so, here you are, you're an ENT or you're, you're not wanting to be an ENT. How did you go from that into cosmetic? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Well, how did your father feel about that? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, yeah, good question. So, I so, decided I wanted to do facial plastic surgery and he, my dad was always kind of just like, you do whatever you want to do. He, he wasn't, he wasn't pushing me toward ENT or anything. So, went and did fellowship, which was a great experience and then came back home.
And basically, I simultaneously started my facial plastic surgery practice, its own entity, its own thing. But then I did a little bit of ENT as well, kind of through his office and, and really how I. In a perfect world, I would have kind of kept doing that. I, there's some aspects I love about ENT and there's some aspects I, you know, love about facial plastic surgery.
And so, I did that for a year or two, maybe, maybe two years or so. And then the, the, the facial plastic surgery practice just got to. Too busy. And I couldn't, I felt like I was living two lives, you know, with the ENT life and trying to keep those patients happy. And then the facial plastic surgery life and trying to keep those patients happy.
And then the, my time in the operating room, I didn't have my own surgery center at that point. And so, you know, in the operating room, you only have a fixed amount of block time and then trying to get additional time is difficult. And so, I made the jump you know, shortly after doing some ENT to. Full facial plastic surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, logistically you're working with your dad, what it sounds like maybe once a week, but then you had another office where you were doing facial cosmetic. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, it was actually a really sweet deal. So, we were different. Entrances from the hallway, but they connected in the back. And so, it couldn't have been any of a sweeter situation.
And so, yeah, I, that air, that space became available kind of, I guess maybe a year or so, before I was ready to get it. So, I, we snagged it and then I built it out, you know, had people kind of build it out and customized it. How I how I wanted. And yeah, so, that's, it was, it couldn't have been better.
And then when I stopped doing it and T my dad's practice expanded into that area and he hired some new providers. And so, it was kind of all a seamless situation.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. You, so, you were literally in private practice, like from the get go. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Day one. Day one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Was it helpful to have your dad nearby? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
That's really unusual to, like, usually you play the hospital game for a while, you join another practice and you hate that after a while. And like, just out of sheer frustration, you end up saying, okay, that's it. I'm going solo. You got there much faster than normal. So, how did that happen? And can others do what you did?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, yeah. I think so. I think the biggest thing is, you know, it was certainly helpful that. My dad was there and he's been in the community for 30 years. And so, our name you know, around here, I feel like is, is pretty well known and well respected. He's excellent at what he does. And so, I think that was helpful.
And I really thought, Catherine, that the ENT practice would fuel. The facial plastic practice, right? So, a mom brings little Timmy in to get his ear tubes checked and maybe she'll get Botox. It saves her a trip maybe to the, to the facial plastic surgery office or but you know, that didn't happen. And it, it happened occasionally, but people come into a medical office with a completely different mindset, right?
It's what am I going to have to pay out of pocket? Why isn't insurance covering all of this? And so, I found that it didn't really work. Like I thought it would. There's certainly some symbiosis there, but, but not, not what I anticipated.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I've tried that for years for decades. I've tried to take an ENT practice and they put a facial plastic surgeon in there or a plastic surgeon.
And we've tried to market them. It's just a different mindset when that patient has an insurance card and they know you as an insurance card. And now you're saying what you want my credit card. It, that's a, a big hill to climb. So, it's not the best way and you, and you learn that. Are you still doing ENT at all or any reconstructive at all? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Or you're just all face?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I do only so, I don't do any ENT at all anymore. I'm on no insurance programs or contracts at all. And I still do, I love doing Mo's reconstructions. And so, every once in a while, I did a news anchor some time ago of her Mo's reconstruction. And so, all of. The news anchors, I feel like, if they have to have something removed from them, I end up doing them, and that's all just kind of out of pocket.
And, and so, there's been some, a good amount or some things like that, but as far as like a steady stream of Mo's, I don't even do that anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would a newscaster be a good referral source for you, or are they willing to talk about that online? Because if you can get a few of them in the community, you are golden. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I know, I know, I, you know, I've never. I, I kind of feel funny sometimes about trying to pull, you know, pull those strings or so, I, I just, I haven't, I haven't asked, I haven't, I haven't asked if they'd be willing to do that. I haven't asked if I could do a little segment on their channel or I just haven't asked about any of that.
Cause I, you know, it's. It's delicate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I feel like, well, here's what you do. You, you turn your wife into the PR director temporarily and she's your third party and she would be the one who, and she's literally the PR director and she's the one who broaches the topic and just says, would you be open to, and then she gives them some ideas and that way you're not involved. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
And she looks professional and all feels professional. That's how the, that's how the big guys do it.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: All right. That's great. I like that advice. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Tell her she got it. She's got to get out there and help you. Yeah. All right. So, now we're back at the building. Now, did you buy or lease that space that you have? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: The space that we're currently in is a lease. I tried to buy it and they wouldn't, they wouldn't let me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I was wondering who gave you all this money? Like, I mean, isn't it more getting more and more difficult to borrow money to Set up shop. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, that's another interesting story. So, I don't know about, I, I actually believe it or not cashflow to everything.
I do not like the debt thing. And I know a lot of my colleagues, you know, are like, that's silly, you know, that's great. And it just makes me uneasy. I can't sleep well at night. And so, when I knew that we were going to actually, it's a crazy story how we ended up in this place, but it has to do with COVID.
We were going to move somewhere else where the, the kind of close to where I used to operate. It was in the same building that the surgery center that was owned by the hospital here in town. And so, they say you can't, you know, they own you if you live there because they say no surgery centers, you know, if you bring in another doctor, they have to be on staff at our hospital.
They can't be on, you know, they just, it's very confining. And so, there we were. Going back and forth with our attorney and the hospital's attorneys and all that stuff for months and months and months and months. And, and so, finally we get something that my real estate attorney's like, Hey, this is good.
This is, you're not like so, tied down. This is to bring somebody in it's reasonable. And then that was March of 2020. We all know what happened then. And I was like, literally had the pen in my hand and I just said, you know, Let me let me hold off on this and I just put it into my drawer. And then of course I've, you know, that happened and then this place came available.
And this is, we are, we have a freestanding building because one of the issues in my old office was parking. There was a parking garage. And so, people would have to get there 15 or 20 minutes before their appointment time, and then there was a couple of different buildings on that campus. And so, it's navigating that Catherine here.
It is. You pull right up. You walk eight steps into our lobby. Our surgery center is attached. That's a separate entrance in the back. And, you know, you can see maybe behind me there's woods behind me. And so, it's very private. It's nice. It's, it's perfect.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's exactly what we want. We want comfort, convenience, privacy, and safety.
Boom. You have all that. So, I did notice you have the name of your practice is Robb Facial Plastic Surgery, but then this surgery center is called North Central or something. What's the thought process there or what's the business model? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well yeah, great question. It's called North Point Surgery Center.
We're on North Point Parkway. Yeah, no problem. And so, I, when I built that, My initial thought was that I'm going to have other surgeons come operate here. And so, we built it out like that. So, in the surgery center itself, there's nothing Robb at all. So, it's completely, anybody could go there and you know, and it doesn't, it's not like they're in, in my kitchen.
But after, after building it, then and we just kept adding more and more surgical days. And I really, I tell my colleagues who are like, should I build an OR? I tell them it's like operating in your own kitchen, you know, where everything is, you know, and then the people I operate with, I operate with them every single day.
So, then I started thinking, you know, I don't know if I want somebody else to come in here. You know, and so, no other humans have ever operated here and we operate five days a week typically. So, it's just been, it's been fine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I heard a talk on this a while back, the efficiency of the same staff, the tools are in the same place, the processes and the protocols are the same.
There is a lot to be said for that. It cuts down so, much on mistakes, inefficiency just the lagging of what's where, who's doing what. Congratulations. If you can have that, nobody has ever said, boy, do I regret building that thing out? Not one person has ever said that even when they were they were 8 million in saying, nope, you know what? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
I'm okay. He had a vision. He did want to bring other surgeons in. I will tell you that is more of a headache than most realized getting another surgeon to use your facilities, your way. That's a whole other headache. So, if you can avoid that good for you. So, good for you. Are you, are you completely happy with your setup? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Oh, I'm so spoiled and I like it's, it's great. I mean, yeah, it's, I couldn't, I mean, you know, and, and where I used to operate, those people are great too, but the big issue, just like you, you hit the nail on the head is. You know, I would have a different scrub tech every day. So, every day is the, is the first day, or there's some times where we have a really long day.
And so, I'll say, Hey guys, can we, can we start at like 6am as far as like, you know, let's like roll back at six. And they're like, great, let's do it. And those there's, or there's been one time where I'm trying to leave town on a Friday and I'm like, Hey, can we start at six? Just, just so, we can be done earlier and I don't feel like I'm, you know, rushed or anything.
Sure. And so, there's like flexible and freedoms and, you know, that you can't maybe get at a hospital center.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, you're not at all connected to a hospital. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Like physically or physically or legally?
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, no relationships there. Are they, are they trying to buy your or no β ?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No. Nobody has come asking to buy it at all.
I'm on staff at several of the hospitals. And I. I used to take call there, like ER call. I don't do that anymore, but I still keep my staff privileges just in case I need to go there for something. But, but no, I'm not, I don't do things regularly at the hospitals anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. Congratulations.
Things are going well, huh? Just give me one mistake because it sounds all too easy right now. Give me one mistake you made that you really learned from, but you lost some time, money or sleepless nights over it. Regarding the surgery center? Anything you're just building, building in this practice from the ground up. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, I think so. I think one of the big lessons that I've learned through this is if you're going to, let's say you're going to do anything kind of a partnership or an affiliation with anything, anybody, any, any organization, you want to get everything in writing signed. Before you do anything and I've learned that and so, you know, just you're excited to do things and you start telling, you know, telling people and then things, things don't pan out and, you know, it looks kind of silly.
So that'd be, that'd be 1 thing is, is, is really just kind of take, take the time. And always, always, always get legal counsel on everything.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, good, good point. Everybody has always said when this, when the stuff hits the fan, the only thing that that judge cares about is what did you have in writing.
And who, who signed what, and if you look at it that way, it's so, true because it's so, easy to bypass all that when, when everyone's happy and when they're not, it gets really detailed very quickly. So, yeah, congrats on that. So, regarding anesthesiologists. I'm hearing that's getting to be a challenge.
Like, have you had any trouble with that? Or are you using, what are they, nurse anesthetists? Or what are you doing about the anesthesiology part? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah so, we have three anesthesiologists that are, you know, that work with us regularly. And it's kind of, that's, there's a, they have a company and they'll go to different, different sites.
And then there's about 15 or 20 of them in this company. And of those we'll, I only, I only want three. And so, there's the, these three are just awesome and they know exactly kind of what we do. And it's just, so, that's been great. And so, they've been they've been with us, you know, since we started here and They're in, it's just, it's awesome.
And I, and I think the big thing is I, I treat them literally like part of our team. And so, we do team events. I'm sure we'll talk about the team and all that, but we do team events and they're at every single one. When we do Christmas presents and that kind of thing, they get those things too. And so, they, they're literally a part of our team. And I, you know, think of them that way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Then let's talk about the team because I think you've got an NP, a couple of nurses, probably estheticians. What is your setup? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. So, we have an esthetician, we have a PA, we have two nurse injectors and, and then three other RNs in addition to that.
And then, and then a medical assistant those are kind of like the clinical people. And yep, and then we have, you know, the marketing and front desk and patient coordinators, that kind of thing too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how much of your practice is surgical versus non-surgical I assume, because it looks like you're pretty heavy into the non-surgical. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Would you say that's almost a necessity in today's world to develop that patient for life kind of practice or, or stick to the one and done? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, great question. So, our practice itself when you when you expand to the other providers, I'm going to say is still, you know, 70% surgery or so.
And then when you're talking about me, it's probably 90 plus percent surgery. And I love doing the injections. It's just that there's only so, much. You know, and I'm trying to figure this whole work life balance thing out and there's not enough hours in a day, you know, to do that, all the things and, and to have enough time to do all the things.
And so, so, yeah, we so, those are the kind of the, the different things. And so, we offer, you know, the spa has lasers and laser hair removal and hydrofacial and, you know, all the, those different treatments were now currently investigating radio frequency devices. So, if you have any advice on that, I'd love to, love to pick your brain on or off the air.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's enough of RF I like IPL plus RF microneedling and I do it quite often. And I, it's just a go to limited downtime, keeps everything where it needs to be. So, far so, good. Yeah. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Excellent. Excellent. So, yeah, that's what. That's kind of the next thing for us is that is the RF world, but I do think that you know what I want to what I'm what I'm striving to create here.
Catherine is a is a place where patients can come. They know they're going to get the top quality of care, that's truthful and honest. So, about every day. I'm telling, I see a patient who wants X, Y, or Z. And I say, you know, I don't think you need that. I'm not going to do that for you. And you know, we can do the other thing that you, we were talking about, but you don't need that.
And you know, it always what, I mean, I say, I say, I'm sure you can go this way down the street or this way down the street and find two or three people to do it for you, but I don't think you need it. And I don't think you're going to be happy. And I think if you spend a hundred bucks on it, it's too much.
And, and so. But then, you know, the same, the same thing. So, every patient gets my cell phone number who we operate on and just check in on patients. And so, you know, we're definitely not the cheapest and sound, we hear that sometimes, but you know, it's the, just the quality of care. And so, from injectables to surgery, I just wanted to be you know, the absolute best that we can offer.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, on your website I noticed that it said 24 7 nursing care and they would actually change bandages at your home or hotel If that's true I would pay anything for that If I don't have to go out after surgery and I can stay put and other people are running around. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Oh my god I hope you do that because that is such a good differentiator.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, and so, it used to be me doing that and I would do I would do home visits And I would well, for our out-of-town patients, I'd go meet them at the hotel, usually a couple of different times. And now it, you know, that's impossible.
And physically, I feel like, you know, Atlanta is such a sprawling area, but in fellowship, we gather, we literally, we would visit people at their homes every day. We'd start the day at 5 a. m. and we would go there. To one or a couple of different people's homes. And of course, that's a smaller town than Atlanta is and then operate all day.
And then usually maybe a stop on the way home at somebody else's house. And so, that really taught me a lot about just, you know, service. And so, yeah, for our out-of-town patients, we have nurse that can stay with them because some people don't have, you know, family who are able to come or friends who are able to come either.
And so, we've got, we've got those channels kind of all. All ready to go.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that has to help your reviews. I don't know how you've done it. So, I'm going to ask, how did you get 366 Google reviews at 4. 9 rating? And I commend you for 4. 9. I'm sure you wish it were 5. 0. It would look inauthentic if you did have 5.
- I hope you know that that is the best you could hope for 4. 9 and it'll be something silly. Like you made me wait too long. How in the world did you get 366 Google reviews in less than eight years? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, we that's a great question. I so, I have this thought and You know, so, I, I have a couple of little gifts over here from patients and to me, a patient brings a gift when the value that they received from you and your office is higher than what they paid.
That's my thought process. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's my thought process. So, they fill that gap oftentimes with a bottle of wine or, you know, a president or something like that. And I think Google reviews in a, in a, in a kind of a funny way is pretty similar to that. And so. And if, and if we read through our Google reviews, I think a good amount of them would say, you know, I texted him on a Saturday and he texted right back.
It's those kind of things that maybe aren't quite the norm but I think are important. And so, when the patient receives that, those kind of services, they're like, well, shoot, I mean, at least I can do is leave a Google review. And we do ask, you know, them to. But it's frustrating. And I don't know. We got to figure something out because the Google monster and the Google machine is we have I have a lot of reviews that patients are sending us screenshots that they completed, but they're not popping up there.
And it's not a, it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy because we have no control, no power. We've, we've called Google and good luck with that. You know, they, so, that's a tough thing and. You know, I know that Google reviews, of course, are powerful and people look at them. And so, it's a, I don't know what the long term, you know, answer for that is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have the same issue. I have doctors who gave me a review. Do you know how difficult it is to get a busy surgeon to stop what they're doing and give you a Google review? And they, they won't show it. And it's like, are you kidding me? I can see maybe consumers, you know, like you'd have more trouble with them, but these are doctors and you can tell I work with doctors. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
So, what in the world? Would be filtered out on that one. I hear you. But are you, so, you're asking, are you asking or are the, is the staff asking or is there some kind of process you have. Because that doesn't happen by accident for you to get the number? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, I ask. I ask And, and if, I don't think, if, if the surgeon doesn't ask it,
And so, we've made it easy and we send links to patients through kind of our, our software and, but I say, you know, we, I just saw a patient before hopping on with you and she's three weeks out from lower lid bleph, fat transfer and laser. And she's like, she's like my husband. Keep telling me that I look so, incredibly amazing.
That's the best. And so, we're looking at before and after pictures and I'm like, you know, it would, it would really mean a lot if you'd, you know, if you do a review and she just share whatever you're willing to share and she's like, are you kidding? I don't know why I didn't do this 10 years ago. And I'm like, well, somebody's waiting.
So do that Google review and I can't wait to read it. And so, we have team meetings every week and I, and we all read. The reviews to the staff. So, I read them if it's about me or a surgical result, I read it. But if it's one of our nurse injectors, they get to read it. And I think it's really important to connect routinely and frequently.
What we're doing here and why we're here. And, and, and, you know, those are the results that, that fuel us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know what else talk about staff motivation. If you're going to just complain to staff constantly that you're not doing something right, that's not very motivating. The other side is celebrating the wins. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
I love that you're having weekly meetings. Meet with your staff. They are everything to you. They're your revenue generators. They're your practice building assets. Like, I don't know how else to say that. And if you go over reviews with them, and especially when they're naming, the patients are naming your staff by name, first name.
I mean, that's just golden and like talk about acknowledging your staff and encouraging them to keep up their best customer service skills. That's how you do it. You don't have to throw a bunch of money at them, throw accolades at them. Isn't that helpful? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: It is. It totally is. And we, you know, we give out gift cards and do fun things.
And it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. And I think, I think that's totally, you know, there's so, much truth to that is what you're saying is absolutely. And I, and to be honest, I, a lot of it I've learned from you and your podcast. And so, thank you for that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What do you do for fun? Because that's another thing that doctors get caught up on.
They're like, we don't have time for fun around here. You know, we're busy. And I think you better get, I'm busy here. I mean, it doesn't take a ton. But what are some of the things like I always say have the taco truck roll up for lunch today. You know, that took no time there. It's what an hour and it can go really far, but what other kinds of things can you do that are fun? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
They're not so, disruptive to the practice.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: You're talking about, like with the staff in the office kind of thing? So, one of the things is we, we have fun. And so, you know, if you, if you follow us on Instagram, there's, we're laughing. It's like, we have a good time. And so, I think that's, that's really important.
And then. At least every quarter we do an evening out with our staff and so, what we just got a couple weeks ago we went bowling and So, we go we eat together. We have some beers and we bowl together and it is so, fun the time before that we went to top golf and so, we did the same thing except we were golfing We've done a simulator thing where you go and you can play all these different Or it's in the simulator.
We've gone out to fancy dinners. We've gone to different malls by party buses. And there's like, it's, it's fun. And I, I really, I really think that's a huge, it's an investment because these things, of course, aren't cheap when you're doing it for a good, a good number of people. But when. When the team is cohesive and they're friendly and they're friends, the patients can tell and it just kind of brings everything together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Any tips on hiring or where are you finding people? Are you having any trouble keeping staff or having any turnover issues? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No not, not currently. I most, I heard the number the other day. Like, I think, I think like 80% of our people have been here longer than a year. And. But early in the COVID thing, I've lost two nurses total to the travel gig, one of which after doing her travel gig, wanted to come back.
And, and so, so, that's the thing for sure. And you know And of course they don't ask me my opinion on it. Like, hey, I'm struggling with the fact that I could go travel. The thing is, you know, travel nursing, you can make a lot of dollars, but there's a reason why they're paying so, much, right? You're going to this; these undesirable places and you're going to be doing undesirable tasks usually.
And that's what, that's what happened to this one nurse. She's like, life was miserable. And, you know, and so, you know, there's, there's that. And I, I just think. As far as kind of keeping staff, you know, we're a family. And so, we treat each other like a family and. You know, we celebrate victories. One of our nurses just is pregnant and she's been trying to get pregnant for a while.
And so, we had a gender reveal party last week, which was super cool. She's having a girl. Okay. I thought it was going to be a boy, but yeah. But she's having a girl, and that was a huge, that was so, fun, and you know, this is a, this just, this will, this story will kind of encapsulate the family. So, one of our, our front desk, and she's kind of our aesthetics coordinators, she lost her father on Christmas Eve.
not this last one, but the year before. And which, you know, something like that happens on such a, it was a tough, it, it made for a tough, long, long time. And so, her brother plays college football and they were playing in the bowl game in Hawaii. And so, one of our nurses. Her boyfriend works for Delta, works for airline.
And so, she, our, our employee said, Hey, can you get me like a buddy pass or something? So, that maybe, just maybe I could go spend holidays and Christmas time with my family and watch my brother. And, you know, especially be with family that during this tough time. And so, the buddy pass thing was never going to work out because those flights are booked.
So, our entire team donated and we presented her with. Round trip ticket to Hawaii for Christmas time so, that she could go be with her family, watch her brother play in the bowl game and it's stuff like that. That you know, that, that, that's just really special to me. And it kind of gives me the chills every time I say it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just hope everyone's hearing that this is all an investment. It is so, much cheaper to keep your team intact. Then then have strife and drama and conflict with a team that doesn't work well together. It costs you money. It definitely costs you sleepless nights. It's a headache. I just investing in your team is everything, especially in today's world when it's so, competitive.
They are your competitive advantage, you know, so, I don't know where you learn this. Well, where did you learn this? Because you know, most doctors are not Up to, up to that part. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: You know, I've learned so, much from podcasts just like leadership podcasts or different kind of things. And always, and I've learned a ton from, you know, you mentioned Ed Williams.
I have learned so, much between the hours of 10:00 PM and 1:00 AM at, at a, you know, restaurant or something with him. And I, I, you know, any time that I can get around, somebody like that, or, you know, just somebody who's a little bit further along. It doesn't have to be somebody like that, but just, I love learning from everybody and anybody.
And another good tip for, for your listeners is food. And so, supply food for your team. We have a Costco, we do a Costco run every whenever we need to, and just. We just fill up. We have a big break room and just fill it up and the staff just, you know, I think that makes a big difference.
They don't have to bring lunch all the time. There're snacks, you know, they have a drive home. There's, they can grab a Coke on their way home. It's, it's. That's a big deal to another investment.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's talk about marketing because I was wondering how competitive is it in your area? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, we're in Atlanta, so, I mean, I think I, I, I super competitive is, is the answer, but the way that I don't think of it, like, I don't think of the other plastic or facial plastic surgeons as competition.
I just talked to one on the phone for 20 or 30 minutes yesterday. Like we're friends. There's just so, many patients and different people have different aesthetics. You know, my noses look different than somebody else's. And so, there's going to be a certain number of humans who like their nose is better.
And there's going to be a certain number of people who like my nose is better. And so, those kind of all distribute out. You know, and, and so, you know, while yes, there's a lot of people who do what I do, I don't feel like a cutthroat competition with anybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you a lot of the surgeons waste a lot of time and energy you know, worried about the competition where I, I would rather focus on just doing your best, excel at excellence and it'll all work out.
Do you have a hyperbaric chamber? I, I love, I did it I mean, it's no secret, I've had two facelifts actually, and one, I was, I had a time crunch and the surgeon said, you've got to go to that hyperbaric thing and I thought, well, it ended up being, I don't know what was 1, 200 or something. I can't remember now because I was completely out of my mind at the time.
But I was going in there, sitting in there thinking. This is great. This is weird. It's great. I'm walking, I'm watching movies and I've never sat around so, long doing nothing. And I thought, is this really working? And then, I mean, I was up and gone and out the door ready for prime time in 10 days. And I thought, I think it was amazing.
And if nothing else, it's a huge differentiator because if you're offering that, because there was a pain in the neck. I had to talk about going outside. I had to go to this center to have it done. It's just a pain and get somebody to drive me and all that. If you have it in your office and you offer it as a package to go, like that goes with your facelift.
I hope you are because Huge differentiator, don't you think? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Absolutely. It has been. It's awesome. So, yeah, and I, I did a ton of research beforehand and talked to a bunch of my colleagues and then I actually, Catherine, I put it in my house. For about eight months because I wanted to use it, I wanted to test it for what?
And well, I, so, what I did was and, and I didn't have a way really to like write this up or objectify it as much as I would need to. So, but I ride road bikes, right? And so, Saturday morning is, is our big ride every week. And it's intense. It's super intense. This is not like a little joy ride. It's like super intense.
And so, I began spending two hours on Friday evening in the chamber on one week, and then I would take a week off. And then the next week I would be back in the chamber for two hours on Friday night, and then I would take a week off. And on average, my heart rate was about 15 to 20 beats lower. when I was in the chamber the night before, and the bike can measure how hard you're pedaling, and my, my power would be higher with a lower heart rate.
And at first, I was like, this is placebo. This is not real. But it, it continued and, and the results just kept It kept continuing. And so, you know, I did that for about four months straight. And so, I was like, all right, I'm a believer in this. And then one of our other employees had had some knee issues where if he sits at a restaurant for an hour, his knee stiffens up and he has to take like a good five minutes or so, to kind of loosen up his knee and he started hanging out in the hyperbaric chamber.
And that. Went away completely. So, it, you know, those things. And then, of course, patient stuff we've had, I've had some other people in the community, like if a filler got a, an occlusion event. And so, you know, she calls me on a Saturday and is like, Oh, my gosh, can you please, I need to get this person in hyperbaric chamber.
So, you know, turned and that was, you know, a night and day difference between kind of how I saw this patient initially and then how she was upon leaving. It's a game changer for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Does anybody else in your community have one? Can you use it as a differentiator in your marketing? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I don't think anybody has one.
There are centers around. And I think it'll, it'll be a, it'll be a moment, just a period of time before. People all get one. And so, I don't think it's something that we've really flexed as of yet, as far as marketing goes, but it's certainly probably an opportunity that I'm missing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would definitely get it in your Instagram and talk about it because the general public doesn't really understand it at all.
And if you can explain it to them and the benefits are you're up and running much sooner than you would have been without it. Or you're literally running, apparently, it's good for your joints too. I didn't know that. I just know it helped me get up and back. Back up into life much, much faster than I would have normally.
So, all right. So, what, what's working for marketing? What, how did you get so, busy? I want to know what your secret is. What are you doing? Did you, I mean, you're doing some social media. Is it a lot of time spent there? Is that where all the marketing efforts are going? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, no, I think, okay, so, my biggest secret.
Is just doing one thing at a time and when and so, the patient that's in front of me, it's 1000% of me in that moment. And so, my only focus in in the day in and day out is taking the absolute best care of the patient right in front of me. That's, that's my thing. And so, and, and so, that's kind of, it all kind of stems from that.
You know, you just play the next play, you just focus on the next thing to do. And so, that's kind of been my mantra and that's kind of how we've, how we've built what we have. As far as marketing goes. I think Instagram is really, really awesome. I saw Rhino Plastic Consult today. She found me on TikTok.
We don't do a ton on TikTok, but that's great. Word of mouth is, is great too. And so, you know, but I think definitely I do my own Instagram. I would say I would put an asterisk on that. We have Nicole runs our Instagram. Like she's the brains behind it, but then I put my captions, you know, on it and I write that and then I respond to a lot of the direct messages myself on Instagram.
And so, it's been, it's been great. And so, I do these Instagram lives on Wednesday. And so, my whole thing. My whole thing is just educating patients, right? So, so, far, Catherine, I've done like, I don't know, 20 or so, of these Instagram lives on, on Wednesday evenings. And so, far I've helped five people who have five people have written me and said I was going to do But now I'm not because of what you taught me.
And so, I've, I've at least helped five. And so, I, you know, every evening when I'm doing that on a Wednesday evenings, I say, if I just help one patient, then this was worth my time. Because it can, you know, people can make. make big mistakes out there. So, just educating patients and, and kind of trying to uncover the veil of, of, of plastic of facial plastic surgery.
And there's been huge advancements, you know, whether you're talking about ultrasonic rhinoplasty, or you're talking about deep plane facelift, these things are like massive paradigm shifts that I want, you know, the public to understand these differences and these nuances.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you find that because your reach is much bigger when you're on Instagram, it's all over the U.S.; all over the world. Are they coming in from all over? One of my issues with that is, that is more of a one and done. They love you, but they're also much more cost sensitive, I find, than the, the local patient who, who's heard your name, who's on your website, who isn't so, sticker shocked, just, that's just my thought.
But what, what do you say to that? Are they coming in? Like, are you able to track any of this? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. So, over half of our patients now don't live around us. So, they're coming in from out of state and just kind of thinking off the top of my head just this morning. Neither one of the patients that we operated on were close to us.
One lives in Ohio. And then the other one, I'm not sure exactly where she lives, but yeah, so, people just are, are traveling and last Thursday patient was in from Tennessee and she kind of, she, you know, she's in her sixties and had done a ton of research and said, you know, if, if traveling down here might definitely makes me more comfortable cause she's watching me on Instagram and she kind of, I've taught her a lot of the things of, of how we do it and what to know what to look for.
She's like, I'm just more comfortable down here. It's not a, it's not a bad drive. And, and so, you know, it's they're down here for a week, 10 days, depending on what it is. And then boom, they're back home. It's just like, it never happened. It's a crazy thing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. Are you doing any other kind of marketing? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
I know you're probably doing SEO. You have a great website. I know who did it, you know, they're, they're the right people. You, that was an investment, right? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yes. Yeah. And that's a funny, funny story. You know, we had, they'd been kind of talking to us for a long time and I, those they're great, great people.
And, you know, built a. Built a beautiful site, and I think that a website is a good thing to have, and it should look nice. It should kind of match your brand but I really think that the social media stuff is more important, probably or at least. I would should say it's probably a little bit more effective at grabbing that patient maybe and driving them to your site, but I we don't do really any other marketing so, I don't we don't do any print ads or any of that we it's mainly just that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But all those videos you're doing have you hopefully started a YouTube channel and you're. Adding all of that on. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yep. We've got a YouTube channel and, you know, it's the kind of thing, Catherine, I don't know if you, I, if you remember that old alligator game that kind of like the little alligators and you, and you hit the hit one and another one pops out.
That's kind of how I feel like with the social media.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm older than you. So, we didn't, they weren't alligators. I think they were cats or something.
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, you know, I just feel like, you know, you, you, you put your neurons on. On Instagram, and then, and then you're like, Oh, but tick tock, you know, and we, Oh, okay.
And so, then we like allocate some resources to our tick tock. And it's like, well, we need to allocate, we need to put all these and compile, comprise all these things and put them over to YouTube. And, you know, it's, it is a lot. And so. Yes, we're working on that and it could always be better, but our team does an awesome job at, at kind of getting all that because just like what I've learned this actually from you is, you know, get the patient saying something and, you know, you can use the whole video on YouTube.
That's a longer. You know, your longer time, your longer videos, break up little pieces and put those in Instagram or Facebook things. You know, you can write a blog post on it. You know, you can use one piece of content for multiple things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's from you. In different ways. Yeah. When I learned that, I thought, wait a second, this is just protocol, like everything else.
So, I got my team together and I said, you guys, we're working too hard here. I'm doing 500 videos and nothing's happening. And then we learned, I get it. You have to break it up and you know, and, but you're constantly repurposing content in a different format. It's just so, it makes so, much sense because it's not, it's not that much extra work for the content.
Growth or spread that you'll get from it. In today's world, you just have to be everywhere. It's so, frustrating. And just when you think you have it figured out, you know, here comes tick tock. Oh, great. Now I have to figure that out. Are you a dancer or anything? Are you into that? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, I have not. I have not.
No, I think yeah. If I started dancing on Instagram or on Tik TOK or whatever, first of all, we would have zero followers and would be disturbing for everybody to see. So, no, it would be painful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I have to ask this because on your website, and I don't know if this is a sensitive topic or not, but you're definitely talking about your faith, and I personally love that because you're calling out who you are, you know, your values who you are, your philosophy, has that worked for you against you? Has it made any difference? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah. Good question. Yeah. I, you know, it's who I am. And so, that was definitely, you know, when, when I was making my first website, you know, that's the question is, do you put that on there?
Do you not? And I'm like, you know, it's who I am. And, and so, what I have found Catherine is, is the more you can be you on social media and your website that will select the kind of people who come to see And so, the more you, you are, then the more your people will, or people that That value, those things will come to you, right?
And I think when that occurs, then you have a higher likelihood of making them happy. You have a higher likelihood of being friends with them. And, and so, I think it's really worked, worked for good. But I don't know how it's. You know, if it's hurt me, it could have people might be seeing that every day and saying, Oh, you know I'm not going there, but we, we, it certainly doesn't mean that I only treat patients with the same faith that I am well, we take care of everybody for sure.
But yeah, so, I, I don't, that's, that's a good thing to, to ponder, but I kind of. Decided like good or you know, it's gotten me this far. You know, and so, Iβm all in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've been marketing for a long time and you learn early on You're better off putting that flag in the sand of this is who I am If you want to detract those who are not like you and you want to attract those who are like you, that's a really good way to attract like-minded people.
But you have to let go of the part where some people can't stand that or some people hate you for that. You have to let that go because all that you care about in marketing is who gives you money and Are you happy with the outcome? Are you happy with that group that you're serving? And let the rest go.
You can't make everyone happy. And it's such a mind game going, but they hate me, but they say bad things about me on Instagram. And you just, they're not your people. That's all there is to it. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yeah, you can't make, somebody much smarter than me said, you know, you can't make everybody happy even if you're selling ice cream.
You know, somebody's going to be mad about something. I think it was Steve Jobs who had some kind of comment like, unless you're giving away free ice cream, you know, 24/7 and you're never closed, you're going to make somebody unhappy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, that is so, true. So, is there, is there any, we're going to, we're getting close to wrapping up.
Is there any advice you would have for others? Because you are definitely doing things. Right. Any advice for others up and coming or even open around for a while? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Like, yeah. Well, I think that there's, there's kind of two avenues I would say one from kind of a business perspective, I think it's incredibly important that you align yourself with a good Team and a good and so, that you can hand things off, which is not easy for us to do as surgeons.
Like I w I wanted to do everything myself at the beginning and to delegate is, is difficult, but you have to also be patient enough. Teach. the people who you're delegating so, that they do it the same way that you would do it or close to or maybe they do it even better. And then as far as for the surgical side of things, I, I never stopped investing and, and spending resources on becoming a better surgeon and learning the new frontiers and the new techniques, even though it's not comfortable.
To, to learn new things and to try new things. And so, you know, I've gone to cadaver courses and there's another one I'm, I'm signed up for later this year. And, you know, we have right now, I feel like it's such an exciting time. Like I was mentioning in facial plastic surgery because of the, just the innovations, I mean, rhinoplasty innovations over the last couple of years have been incredible.
Incredible. And before that, there wasn't really many big, you know, changes or paradigm shifts in hundreds of years. And so, you know, that, that's a huge, huge thing. And so, I tell patients, you know, I'm kind of, I just do nose, neck and face only. So, I'm a super, super, super specialist in these things. And so, I'm kind of like a three-trick pony.
And if that's all I do, I better be really good at them. And so, that's my kind of my commitment to my patients is to keep learning, and you know, keep getting better.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, tell us something we don't know about you. How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: I knew you were going to ask this. And so, there's a couple of things that I was that I was.
Toying around with, but I think a cool story is that I have played craps with Jon Bon Jovi in Las Vegas.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, did you know it was him?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: So, no. Not at first, I did not. But and this was years and years ago. I was in college, but, and then I started singing the song for him. not really singing, but just kind of play singing that he did not sing.
And so, it was, it was a really funny thing. And so, yeah, that's my claim to fame.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't get it. Why are you singing to Bon Jovi?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Well, we were, we were playing craps and we were having fun. And so, I didn't realize that it was him. And so, a lot of people start coming around and then we start, and I, I had shorter hair and there may have been a little product in my hair.
So, he may have called me a backstreet boy. And then I, I started singing a song that I thought he sang, but he didn't. It was Def Leppard, some other, some other song. And so, yeah, that was it. We've been best friends ever since.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you get his autograph?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, no. But that's something that's interesting about me for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and you have a wife and three girls. So, what's it like? Is the dog at least male?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: Yes, he is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You are surrounded by females. What did you grow up with females or was this all new to you? How did or does this impact your ability to be in solo practice with no debt?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: No, I grew up with two sisters and a brother. So, there's four, four kids in the family. And so, yeah, I think.
Yeah, my, my three daughters are amazing. And my wife's amazing. And, and, and then the majority, we have a couple of guys on our staff which is good. And then, yes, we do have a boy dog, which is, which is critical. But yeah, that's just kind of my, I don't know anything different, Catherine. It's just kind of like, it's where I am and it's, it's, it's great.
I can't complain.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, well, you're just doing such a great job. I'm excited to just watch you grow more because all your moves seem, I mean, it seems like it's been easy sailing for you. I don't normally hear this. It's usually a rockier road. So, but yours seems to be fantastic. So, so, far so, good. If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, what would be the best way?
Philip Robb, Jr., MD: They can email me at drrobb@robbfacialplastics.com, or you can go to our Instagram. We're @robbfacialplasticsurgery, and you can DM me there and happy to interact.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, thank you. So much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to be in solo practice with no debt.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Robb, you can reach out to his website at, www.RobbFacialPlastics.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Robb for sharing his experience on how he got into solo practice with no debt.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βSolo Practice, No Debt β with Philip Robb, Jr., MDβ.
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and my interview with ASPS President, Dr. Gregory Greco.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Interview with ASPS President β with Gregory A. Greco, DO".
I recently attended the California Society of Plastic Surgeonsβ annual conference held in San Francisco. (Union Square was surprisingly clean and quite pleasant and I hope it stays that way).
They had several plastic surgeon heavy hitters speaking about hot topics such as how social media and technology are affecting this industry and their practices specifically.
One of those speakers was Dr. Greg Greco who is a board-certified plastic surgeon in solo practice in NJ. Heβs doing that while also fulfilling the duties of current President of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS).
So, I invited Dr. Greco to be a guest on the Beauty and the Biz Podcast to talk about lots of things he touched on at the conference that included:
- The challenges of intense competition
- Social media do and donβts
- Destination plastic surgery
- How A.I. will affect our industry
- ...and a whole lot more!
Visit Dr. Grecoβs website P.S. Earlier this week, I talked about following up on leads and that starts with your receptionist. Get 87% OFF front desk training with this one-time offerβ¦.
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Interview with ASPS President β with Gregory A. Greco, DO Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and my interview with the ASPS President. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits, and I'm very excited about today's guest who knows a lot about balancing cosmetic with insurance.
It's Dr. Greg Greco, and he's a board- certified plastic surgeon in private practice in New Jersey, and he's also the current president of ASPS, otherwise known as the American Society of Plastic Surgeons.
So, I want to jump right in and talk about his practice, my interview with him as the current ASPS President, and the society. So, Dr. Greco, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Catherine, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the invitation and I'm looking forward to this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, absolutely. This all came about because we recently, during Memorial weekend, why that meeting was Memorial Weekend. I don't know, but we were at that California Society of Plastic Surgeons and you were like one of the first speakers and I thought, oh my God. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
It was so nice of you to show up in California for that meeting and you had such good things to talk about, even like the business side, the marketing side, the physical side, you know, like, like treat. You really know it all. So, I really wanted to pick your brain about things going on in the world. So, let's just start with your own practice, because it's not like your practice can take a break. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
You still have to practice. So, can you describe what your practice is made up of? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: So, thanks Catherine. Thanks for that question. So, my practice I have, I'm in a solo private practice my entire career, and I kind of have this, this kind of hybrid academic, private practice, but predominantly cosmetic surgery practice.
So, so I am a full body cosmetic plastic surgeon. I, I also do a small amount of implant-based breast reconstruction as well which I never wanted to give up because I, I just love. Our breast cancer patients. And I kind of have this bimodal distribution of my cosmetic surgery practice where the mommy makeover patient and then the facelift blepharoplasty facial patients.
So, so I kind of spread the, the practice between two generations, if you will. And my hybrid portion that I'm talking about is I run a general surgery residency program. I have a board certified. General surgeon and a board-certified plastic surgeon by the American Board of Surgery, as well as the American Board of Plastic Surgery.
So, I maintain both certifications throughout my entire career. I've been in practice for 22 years and I have practiced both in Red Bank, New Jersey, which is a, basically it's a bedroom community of New York City. And I also have a maintainer practice in on Central Park South in New York City.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. I have to ask, how difficult is it in today's world to balance the insurance side of your practice with the cash side of your practice? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, it's, it's always challenging to balance your practice. Period. And then the insurance aspect, you know, we were predominantly cosmetic surgery, but the insurance aspect, I think, you know, again, maintaining that portion of the practice, especially for my breast cancer patients, you know, for me is so important.
But, but it's difficult, right? Insurance companies or insurance carriers, Between the regulatory issues and the all the legislative issues, and then just the complexity of insurance makes it complicated. You know, we pay a lot in salaries to, to navigate all of that and it's frustrating sometimes.
Moreover, you know, forget about our end of it for the patient. It's really complex.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, as a consultant to plastic surgeons, it's just so difficult to consult on that because I just want to talk about the cash side because I know it so well. Yeah, and it's just, it's an, it's a cleaner kind of business, but I appreciate those who still do insurance. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Thank God you know when you need it. Thank God there are good people doing it.
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. I mean, I, I think the, you know, having alternative revenue streams and, you know, I think when you look at, you know, the, the for-profit aesthetic medicine, you know, it's certainly, it does, it's cleaner. It's easier to kind of figure out because they're, you know, it's predictable.
Mm-hmm. Whereas, you know, when you have a hybrid, I mean, it's, it's definitely more complicated again. But you know, like anything, you, you, you figure out how to navigate it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Now, are you basically a surgical practice or do you also believe on, in the non-surgical and building that patient's relationship, so they come back for surgery? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
What's your feeling on that?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. No. I'm all in. I think it's an incredibly important, I think it, all the services are, you know, you see your patients and you don't want to, you know, parse out the services, you know, to different practices. So, one of the things, especially. Being a solo private practitioner, you know, the injectables, you know, we started, you know, this was 22 years ago, so neurotoxins, there was one and injectables.
There was really nothing that was worthwhile as, you know, you're a consultant in this industry, you know. So, we went from, you know, stuff that was just marginally okay to so many different products now, so and so I kind of grew with the injectable market. My practice kind of grew the same way. And, you know, those were always the, the best way for me to have FaceTime with my patients.
I was always my own injector. I have several like, you know, injectors now and, and you know, other services offered within my practice. But no, I think we are a full-service practice for lots of different reasons. Because, I think it's important for your patients, including your surgical patients. And, you know patients want all their services under one roof, if they can. That's perfect for the patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's tough to manage all of those profit centers. Mm-hmm. So, who's running the show over there? Are you trying to manage all of this? Do you have somebody helping? How? How are you set up? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, it's, it's a, it's actually a great question.
I mean, when you look at, you know, the profit centers within the business so I, I can happily say that I, I've had the same accountant since I started. So, we've had a great relationship and, you know, once every quarter, you know, we're, we're, we're together in person and. And, but you know, between both of us, we, we seem to manage it so which is great and, and I think that, you know, over the course of time having so many really bright colleagues and you know, we always discuss this stuff, we always try to figure out, you know, whether another way to kind of twist the biz and figure out, you know, what the room is generating and you know which profit margin actually is.
And you know, because there's a lot of complex math when it comes to dealing with industry about. You know, the cost of products and, you know, today versus tomorrow versus, you know, whatever incentive program is out there. So, but I think we, we, we seem to manage, so, but it's always complicated and it's always it's always, you are always learning to stay ahead of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And then what about the trends in patient demand patient procedures, what are they liking? What are they no longer liking? What has surprised you about the demand? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Well, you know, the, it's interesting, the demand for procedures, the demand for injectables, depending on, you know, so the one thing I, I think that we've all been kind of it wasn't a surprise attack, but social media has really become the, almost the, the bellwether for what the phone.
You know, calls may be about the whatever particular day. So, because you know, now versus just having to read a paper, read a magazine, you know, you just have to go sit in, in your waiting room and, and go through the magazines to see what people are going to be asking you about. I don't have the time, maybe the patience to sit and get flip through, you know, all of Instagram and figure out what were TikTok, what the patients are going to be looking for, however, I think there are things, you know, we recently had kind of this kind of surge in buckle fat, right?
People wanted buckle fat pad removal. And then, you know, we had the, the autologous fat grafting to the buttock and now we're seeing the reversal of that trend. So, you know, I, I think. Regardless, you know, there's always something trending, there's no doubt about it. You know, the lip flip is still kind of, people are coming in and asking for the lip flip.
So, regardless of whether or not people truly understand what it is, it is something that staying on top of it is helpful just to understand the terminology. So, you know, I think that the non-inject, I'm sorry, the non-surgical portion of, of, of this business is always, I think, kind of. Getting us or it's probably the bigger ask on a daily basis.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. Regarding the patients though themselves, have you found that they come in a lot more, I don't know if it's educated or misinformed or, you know all of it. How are patients different now than they used to be during that consultation? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, I, I think that the patients, at the end of the day, they're educated.
It's all information. So, I think that the patients have information, which is very helpful. My job as a practitioner and as a plastic surgeon is to just really. Help them understand the nature of their request, whether or not, you know, through kind of some shared decision making, whether or not whatever they're asking for is actually appropriate for them.
You know, so, so I think that at the end of the day, as much as we want to be cynical about some of the things it's driving, you know, patients to our practice, you know, because patients trust you. So, they're going to say, okay, tell me about this. Is this actually a procedure that. I can do, do you think this is realistic for me?
Can I have this result? You know, so, so I think the expectation management at the end of the day, especially, you know, who knows what we're actually looking at on, I mean, I'm looking at results saying, really, that's amazing if you really got that result. So, so again, it's, it's confusing. It's confusing to us.
As providers. I think it's really confusing to patients, especially when you're not aware of all, whether it's a product, whether it's a surgery, regardless. But I think patients, at the end of the day, they're educated, you know, and, and my job is to make sure that they're educated correctly and that I give them the information they need to make a decision.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Along those lines, there's always that big discussion about. Board certified plastic surgeon versus non-board-certified plastic surgeon. And I know your organization has spent time on this as well. How do you educate the patients on that? Do they get it? Do you bother anymore? How, what's your take on that? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Well, I mean, I think we're, we're always going to bother. I think it's always worth, you know, and I think that the clarity has to be, Board certified plastic surgeon versus cosmetic surgeon. And I think the confusion is the fact that the term cosmetic surgeon, I. It can mean anything. There's no clarity around it because there's a lot of boards that aren't a B M S or American board of medical subspecialties that are the real recognized boards.
There are some pay-to-play boards out there where some minor qualifications will get you a board certification and it's very confusing for the patients. So, and that's the, you know, unfortunately the biggest problem. So, we as plastic surgeons, you know, I spent, I. Nine years in residency, in operating rooms, making sure that I was as qualified as I could be.
So, do you need nine years of residency to inject Botox? Of course not. However, the, there, there's so much that you learn to appreciate and recognize, and I, I always think of it as, you know, do I have the full armamentarium to take care of my complications? And the answer is yes. So, I can recognize and take care of them as well.
So, I think that's where we tend to fool ourselves a little bit, where, you know, people appear qualified. And I think that when people, especially with social media these days, you know, just because someone has. X number of followers. It does not equate to competency. It equates to having a good social media background and you know, whether you hire them or you're just good at it, but it doesn't equate to competency.
And, and ultimately, you know, especially as the president of society and you know, we. Puts patient safety, you know, as if it's a pyramid. Patient safety is number one. It's the, it's the, it's the top of the pyramid and we just want our patients to make sure that they're going to qualified individuals. So, yes, I'm going to say board certification matters.
Yes. I'm going to say plastic surgery matters. Although I have nurse injectors within my practice, they're trained by me, and we all kind of recognize, you know, our aesthetic. We recognize, you know, what we want out of our, you know, whatever we're trying to accomplish. So, we're all looking in the same direction, at least.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Long time ago I came up with a marketing tool called Position the physician, and it visually shows the kind of education that went into board certification and I, because everyone can look at your long cv, but the, the world today, I think they're more picture driven. Yeah. So, I just show a one page visual of.
This is what went into that while the rest of us got, you know, went to work after grad school. You were, you stayed put for like another decade, you know? That's right. So, there's a lot that went into that and there, there's got to be a balance there between not, it's not bragging, it's like factually explaining why Yeah.
You are different than somebody else who didn't go through that. Because, but God, I got to tell you, social media there've been a lot of surgeons who are usurped. By really good marketers. That's right. At least in the short run, you know? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. And, and I'm not saying, and I'm not disqualifying everyone out there because it's, you know, it wouldn't be fair to do that because there are people who are doing, you know, good jobs.
The, the concern is about the ability to recognize complications and moreover, serious, sometimes fatal complications and the ability to have that education. You know, there are things that, you know, There as a cosmetic surgeon, you know, not that you had to, but you probably never did a liver transplant.
You never did cardiac surgery, you never did. You know, the, so the anatomy, just everything being all over a body and, and operating from head to toe for 10 years. I, I don't know. You know, again, it's not that. Board certified plastic surgeons can't have and don't have complications. It's just, I think that, you know, we put so much emphasis on, on research and meaning that us as consumers, you know, I always say that everybody will research their next dish, dishwasher, that they're going to purchase more than they research their doctor.
And it's really true. You know, you're getting reviews, consumer reports seen at this, that, whatever, wherever you're going and just. You know, you just go where your friend went. So, so it's, it's one of those things that, you know, is it hard to quantify? It's hard to quantify, but when you hear it, you know, either in a pictogram or just, you know, just spoken out, it, it makes sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, part of your membership, I remember I used to do a lot of work with ASPS years ago and they are very careful about how they market. They had a big list of marketing no-nos. And my issue was, while your... I felt it was almost restraint of trade because you weren't allowed to do a lot of things that the others were doing because there was no regulation over them.
Yeah. So, how, how is that going now? What do you allow or what don't you allow in marketing, you know, numbers. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: We, we recognize the fact that, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we want to, you know, hold our members to the, to highest. You know, metrics, whether it's quality, or it's ethics and, you know, the highest moral standards.
So, but we recognize at the same time, we don't want to prohibit or limit the ability for our, our membership to stay competitive. As you said, you know, it, it's almost, you know, we're quashing their ability to, so, so. Recognizing that, you know, years ago there was, you, you couldn't even market, you know, say there was a charity and you wanted to, to have a, a basket and have 50 units of Botox that people can, you know, spend a thousand dollars on or $2,000 on.
And it all went to charity. But we couldn't even do that. So, we've recognized that, and we do allow certain non-surgical procedures. You still can't, you know, we don't. Recognize the fact that people should be giving away anything that requires, you know, surgery or surgical consent. You know, that's still, you know, we, we prohibit that however, but we've become a little more lenient in what our members are allowed to do.
And certainly, we have social media standards and I think overall, you know, it's kind of a little litmus test. Just do the right thing if it makes sense. It makes sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Talking again about social media, how do you feel about how crazy that's gotten? You know, people are showing everything huge surgical procedures.
It's just gotten very interesting and plastic surgery and social media don't often get along. How are, are you as a society handling that or keeping it upscale and ethical? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Again, I think that we, you know, you certainly can't police every so social media account, nor should we have to. I mean, I think most people recognize, you know what?
Patients want βbefores and aftersβ for the most part. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's a little intraoperative, you know, stuff a lot of people like to show them peeling away all the skin from the tummy tuck they just did. Yeah. You know, if, if that's what people want to watch, I guess it's fine, you know, but you know, your immediate three-minute result and your six month and one year result have nothing to do with each other.
So, you know, again, it's good for social media. And, you know, people are certainly, you know, getting a lot of likes and followers from this, but I think everybody is now understands your consumption of social media has to come through a filter. So, and we all recognize that it doesn't matter. I mean, other than watching, you know, Like, I'm a sucker for kittens, puppies, baby horses and goats.
You know, we, the rest of it, you just kind of, you're just amused by it, right? So, so I think that, you know, if you're getting your news and you know all things relevant to your life from social media, you should probably take a break.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, at the meeting that we were at there were two heavy hitters from Beverly Hills talking about social media and ai, which is artificial intelligence Yeah.
And how much that is going to change this. Yeah. Oh wow. It's going to change a few things. And one thing that one of the doctors said that I thought was brilliant was, get all your before and after photos up there right now with your watermarks dated just in case somebody decides to start messing with your photos. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Down the road or something. Did you hear that one? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. No, it was, you know, Dr. Nazarian and Dr. Gava, I mean, they were great. It was great advice because I think AI is, you know, the, one of the biggest threats, you know, the other day the radio, I was just listening to an interview and they were interviewing Sam Altman who developed ChatGPT.
It's fascinating because, you know, he was almost saying that, you know, he really thinks that you need government intervention to contain, you know, and to regulate, you know, ai and it was just likened it to, you know, nuclear proliferation and how this has to be a global issue. So, that was fascinating to hear from.
Someone who was responsible for, you know, his company for, for developing chat G B T. So, I think it's all a concern. I think it's existential until it's not. So, I mean, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that horse is out of the barn. I don't know how in the world they're going to regulate that. I know. I love Elon Musk. I think he's amazing.
He's a, he is genius. And he said, I warned him years ago, don't let this, don't let this get out. It's going to, it's going to hurt us a lot. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I don't, I mean, it's really hard to comment on who knows. I mean, yeah, I think that, you know, there's, there's, you can ask ChatGPT for post-op instructions, and it still gets, you know, a fair amount wrong.
But, you know, as, as you know, listening to Mr. Altman the other day, he said, look, just like you would, it would just say, okay, like you would say, I'm going to call one of my smart friends, or I'm going to read. Some books, and I'm going to continue to learn about this. That's what's probably going to keep happening. So, the question is, you know, are we making ourselves obsolete?
I don't, I don't know. You know, so it's a scary question. It's a, yeah. You know, this is the "how" of 30 years ago.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I just saw an example, like I love Joe Rogan. He just, he's doing a really killer job on his podcast and they showed how they put Joe Rogan together with this speaker that he had, but they AI it, I don't know if that's a verb or not. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
And they had Joe Rogan promoting that. Supplement, which was nothing of what was happening there. And you couldn't tell, like I, I couldn't tell. I thought why would he, I literally was thinking to myself, why is he promoting this on his show like that? Anyway, that's kind of, yeah. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: No, I think, I think just proving the fact that, you know, we're going to be as consumers.
Unable to recognize, you know, the computer generated or you know, versus the real, and that's concerning. I mean, who knows? Maybe this is going to be the same thing, you know, where it will just be computer generated images. You know, most of us have our voices out there that. Could be copied and, you know, I don't know.
It's a done deal. So, we'll see what happens.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm very happy with my filter on Zoom, so I, I would like to keep that. But the rest I don't know how you're going to date in, on the online, you know, the, the filters are going to be in insane. So, anyway another, imagine going back to the good old days. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: What's that? Imagine going back to the good old days where you actually meet somebody in person and β
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's right. Have a conversation, God forbid. How about destination surgery? I did speak at a meeting in Florida and there were almost 10,000 people there. About destination surgery. I had no idea what a big deal it was.
Does ASPS think it's a big deal? Or how are you handling that topic? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: So, so there's a, there's a couple of ways to kind of break this down. So, there's medical tourism, which can be international, right? And there's destination surgery, which can be, you know, within our own borders. So, you know, and there's several ways to, just to kind of look at this.
Number one, I think international medical tourism, you know, has the potential for disaster. And we have statements and I've actually been interviewed and, and also been quoted in multiple sources about this. One of the biggest concerns is that, you know, we have standards within the United States, you know, if you're going to legitimate board-certified surgeons, and you know, if they're credible and operating in, in whether they're nationally accredited or state licensed facilities. You know, when you're international medical tourism, you don't know what you're getting. You may you not only have the process of travel, which can set you up for a blood clot alone, then you have language barriers and you have, you know, itinerant surgeons, you know people who may be flying in.
You may not be meeting your surgeon, you know, until the day of your surgery. So, What does the postoperative care look like if you have drains? Are you being sent home with a drain? And then there's a whole host of, you know, my, my biggest kind of, Tagline with this is, where are you comfortable having your complications?
So, you know, most plastic surgery, fortunately, you know, usually goes well, but there's surgery that does not go well, and where are you comfortable with that? So, if you're going to be in a, in a foreign land that you don't speak the language, you know, you, you're going to wind up. Paying more and probably, you know, possibly risking your life.
Then there's tourism, medical tourism within our own country. And I think the biggest thing with that, you know, people can get on a plane to go have procedures and it's not uncommon and, you know, especially with plastic surgery and we just want to make sure that. From a society standpoint that whomever is operating is, you know, if they're going to then turn the care over to a local plastic surgeon, that there's communication, that they're not just sending someone home and saying, Hey, which is something that we've seen from Florida.
You know, again, some of these, you know, for lack of a better word, these unfortunate. You know, chop shops where people are going and they're being misled and they're then being sent home and say, Hey, when you, you need your drain out, go to the er and they'll pull out your drain. Oh my god. You know, and these things are just immoral and un unethical and, you know, we, we are obviously do not, you know condone any of that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I do know several surgeons who do zip over to Dubai, do surgery, come back. It's a very lucrative thing to do in the short run. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?Personally, I'm thinking, is it helping you grow your practice? I, I, I, I can. Or if you're just trying to get away from your practice and it's more like a vacation, but how does ASPS feel about that? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Well, again, it depends, you know, Dubai's actually a great example because Dubai, I. In as much as I know about it, I've met with the Chamber of Commerce in Dubai, you know, in part of my role and being a part of the not only the recent meeting, the ILAT meeting, but also the Emirates meeting.
And they do it right in as much as. They make sure that their operating rooms are in fact credentialed either by, you know, some of our national credentialing agencies or by, you know, the by Dubai, the UAE. So, and then the surgeons that are going over are going over spending time. They're operating, but they're taken care of by plastic surgeons and, you know, and they're not Americans necessarily.
You know, I'm not really sure where the patients come from, but again, I don't think, I'm not going to say it can't be done well, but Dubai's a good example of where a lot of it is done well. Because they understand that if they want to become a center for whatever, they have to do it right. They have to promote patient safety.
They have to make sure that their physicians are credentialed and boarded. And that they're in fact doing, you know, they're not doing harm to patients because they don't want the stain on their reputation that patients are coming and having complications from plastic surgery, whereas some other countries, you know, don't, didn't, aren't, you know, maybe privy to the fact that this is happening within their borders.
So, so I think Dubai, for the most part, the, the country itself is involved in this process.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, from what I've seen, the facilities are gorgeous.
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Beautiful, and they're committed to patient safety. Again, I don't necessarily think a 14-hour trip to go have surgery is necessarily the right thing to do, depending on where you're coming from.
But I don't know enough about the patient population, where they come from, et cetera. But I do know surgeons, as you do that, operate there and it seems to be a above board. Okay. What's that? The few that I know, so again, I can't comment on the entire industry, but at least the, the, the, some of the surgeons and the processes that I've witnessed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I will say the surgeons that I do know, there's, there's no story behind it. Like nobody's had a drama or trauma or Correct. It's been fine. Yeah. I just think you have such bad jet lag, like yes. If you're over there for three days, it takes three days to recuperate. You know? I just, I don't know. I don't know if it's a good use of your time, frankly, but β
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, we can be more useful personally. In my own practice, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. Why grow somebody else's? So, let's talk about A S P S and your position now, you've been in, you've been the president since November of 2022, and it's a one-year term. How's it going? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, it's been just absolutely a, a, a wonderful experience. Tiring experience, but a wonderful experience.
You know, I've had the opportunity to not only travel the country, but travel a good chunk of the world. And we have first we're the largest plastic surgery society in the country and also in the world. So, we have 50 countries that we have MOUs or memorandums of understanding with. So, so we have just.
So, many bright, talented surgeons located that are either national members or international members throughout the world. And, and having the ability to meet so many people and just, you know, they're so bright, talented, innovative, and just the cultural exchange and the scientific exchange has just been fascinating.
So, moreover, one of the greatest things is, Having the opportunity to get in front of our residents and medical students mm-hmm. And kind of that pipeline of plastic surgery, you know, all the up-and-coming leaders and, you know, it's, it's really been wonderful and, and, and also having the ability to kind of move the needle forward with migrate board.
Just for plastic surgery, you know, whether it's an issue involving, you know, it's a legislative issue or it's a regulatory issue, or it's just something that has nothing to do with that. But you know it's been really fun and like I said, I, I'm surrounded by so many great people to help, you know, to help us kind of move the needle of plastic surgery forward a little bit, which has been just a, a huge honor for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Talking about the residents and fellows. How do they enter the marketplace in today's world? I frankly can't imagine trying. It's, it's a crowded marketplace and a lot of them, are they going to go academia? Do you know? Have they told you? Are they going to go solo, academia, join a hospital, join a group? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, so we, we have the statistics on, you know, where people are landing when they, when they go out into practice. You know, we still know, at least we know with our membership that about 50% of our ma our membership is still in private practice, whether it's solo practice or, or group practice. But there's still solo practice, so we're about 50/50.
I think one of the things that has become very difficult is just opening a practice, especially as a young plastic surgeon, especially if you just want to go into cosmetic surgery. You know, you're really in a fierce marketplace depending on where you are. And the, in the, in the day, you would just go and you do medical stuff and, and.
You know, it was just, I feel for them, I think that stuff like this, podcasts, social media, you know, they're just bound to have to be a part of it and participate in it. And the other thing is that when you're starting. You know, especially with medical training, it's very myopic. So, you know, we're kind of, you know, we're just kind of led every step of the way.
So, we don't really ever think, oh, I can just go and open a practice. So, we always think you have to join somebody, you have to go look for a job. And I, I just got out and, and just couldn't wait to. Be by myself, you know? So, but it is more, there are constraints, there are many constraints, financial constraints.
I think that the industry in medicine in general, because normally in the natural progression of so many plastic surgeons were, you got out, you took call in e emergency departments and you gradually grew a practice into if you wanted to be a cosmetic surgeon, do you know, plus aesthetic surgery. You kind of grew into that versus just beginning and starting that way.
And the marketplace has become very different now. So, you know, as you know, many people are cosmetic surgeons now, whether they're credentialed or not. So, they're competing with a, a, a large group of individuals that may or may not be qualified.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know so many surgeons who are looking for associates to join them to Then hopefully, Buy, buy them out.
Do you offer a resource to help them with that? Because I get those calls saying, do you know anybody? And I think that's a really big question, you know? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah. We have, you know, we kind of pride ourselves on the fact that, you know, we are from residency to retirement, you know, we have multiple resources available to every stage of your career.
So, our young career surgeons, our mid-career and our, you know, retiring surgeons, we have resources and opportunities and message boards and, and, you know, ways to kind of. You know, Bring everyone together. So, yes, I mean the resources are there. Everybody has to take advantage of them. We have residentsβ forum.
We have, you know, young Plastic Surgeons Forum, and then we have our Senior Residents Conference. And, you know, there's so many different things and we try to make and the, and the great thing about it is that the medical students and the residents are. They're really industrious people, you know, they really take advantage of all of this, you know?
So, so it's great. And our messaging to them has been easier than our o older career surgeons, you know, which includes me. You know, you, we have email fatigue and, you know, we don't necessarily live on social media to get our, you know our information. So, but we have so many resources available and we really pride ourselves on that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you find that the newer generation, they're just different. They're more into quality of life and not crushing it 24 7. Do you find that? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: You know, I guess it depends on who you're looking at, you know? So, I think, you know, and I, and I keep asking myself again, I run a residency program, so I run a general surgery residency program and I'm the associate program director for another program.
So, all in all, probably about 70 residents. So, and, and I, I want to generalize and say stuff like that, but I can't because I have some residents that, you know, remind you of kind of the good old fashioned surgery resident. You know, they just work. And that's it. They don't complain. They just work. But I don't know.
I mean, is it, is work life balance such a bad thing? Sometimes I think, okay. Did we have it all wrong? You know, here it is, 7:00 PM and I'm still talking to my computer. So, it's, it's I, I don't know. I mean, it, it's something that as long as you recognize the balance. And the reward. I think it's fine. You know, so, and, and I think that, you know, whatever I want to see, and, you know, I, I have to, I'm the one who has to adjust probably more than the young career surgeon.
Like I said, I think it's one of those things that as long as you have expectations of your, you know, your input and your reward, then I think it's fine. Right. That makes sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For ASPS for the presidency, did, did you go in with certain goals that you wanted to conquer while you're the president? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yes, of course. I mean, every, every president has goals. And there were several things that I really wanted to see. I know, one of the things, and with my national meeting coming up in August, I'm sorry, in October, is, you know, there are a few things. Number one, I, I really. Honored and, you know, really take my mentors all of the help.
I took that very seriously. And so, we're giving our member surgeons the opportunity to recognize their mentors at our national meeting. Also, just some wellness to kind of talk about, you know, some of the things we were just discussing. I think that wellness and launching our, our project well which was started.
Maybe about two years ago, but we're really going to emphasize it at the national meeting. Everything from programming to food choices, to just kind of some relaxation ways and yoga, and, you know, just recognizing that, you know, every now and then it's, it's good to take a little break. And then thirdly, the program that I'm in the process of initiating is something called the Pair program, which is the, it's a, it's basically The academic, private practice, academic educational resource to a way to, to have our private practice colleagues and our Academic colleagues kind of come together and not only for research opportunities, for resident opportunities because, you know, we look at our membership, our membership is 50% private practitioners and like myself, and, you know, there's so many people doing so great work that we never hear from, you know, because they're just busy taking care of patients.
They have great data; they have great results. And if they only had a resident that they can partner with, maybe to help mine some of their data, get some of their results out there, get them published, and then the resources to the academic programs would be, you know, all of a sudden, you know, there's some scholarly activity for their residents.
There's some maybe an aesthetic practice that, you know, the, sometimes the, the, especially with the academic programs, they may not have the strongest. Ac aesthetic programs depending on where you're training. So, because they're more reconstructive heavy, et cetera. So, it's a way to have some synergy between our memberships and in the academic and the private world.
And it's a good way to kind of farm both as well because it's a job opportunity. You know, all of a sudden, you're working with this resident who's fantastic, you're like, you'd be great in my practice. And then, you know, sometimes the academic center says, You'd be great. Come join us. You hate your practice; you hate running your practice.
You know, so it's, again, it's a resource management, you know, if you will, for, for both. And again, providing lots of opportunities. You know, we have so many clinical trials that occur that, you know, sometimes, you know, my patients being in private practice, I'm just not aware of. So, if I was partnered with, you know, X University up the road, I can say, okay, you know what?
I know there's a great clinical trial and you'd be perfect for that. So, again, I think it's a way to kind of optimize patient experience and physician experience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when your presidency is over, do you think you're just going to go back to doing things as you were or have you been enlightened and you have a new way of running your practice when you have more time? How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: I think my practice would love if I had more time to be in my practice. So, you know, I think it's a, of course you, you know, you grow in every way. I think, you know, one of the great things is the opportunity to meet people through, again, through the country, throughout the country, throughout the world, and just really understand their practice models and you know, all the little takeaways.
You know, you're at the California meeting and you're just, You're always getting some pearls, right. So, and practice management wise, fortunately, you know, I'm very proud of my team. And we're, you know, I couldn't do this without them, you know, so I'm very fortunate that, you know, we have a great team and my absence is, you know, it's not, Overly detrimental to my practice.
It's detrimental in the fact that when I'm on the ground, I'm running and operating and you know, but you know, they would love to see me here more than, you know, running around. So, but they appreciated. They're, they're, again, they're very proud, which I, I love. And they have done everything to make this possible for me, which I really appreciate it.
But you absolutely, I will take away so much from this year and incorporate it into this practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know it's a very big commitment that you made, so congratulations and Thank you then, and it, it's, you'll evolve so much just from what you just said. All of the perspectives you're getting out there and all the people and ways of doing things. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
No practice is the same and that's what I find so interesting. Everyone's got a different way to do it their way. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Good for you. Last question that I ask everybody, I hope you don't mind. Tell us something very interesting about you that we don't know. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Oh God, maybe, maybe I didn't get that far down on what don't you know?
I am a sucker for animals. And so, I will tell you that the majority of my screen time is watching, you know, little baby horses and, and goats and, you know, you name it. So, I don't, I don't care about the plastic surgery content as much. You know, it's, you know, purest. I'm truly an escapist when it comes to downtime, I'm an escapist.
I will watch the worst movies on a plane. Things that I will never admit to. So, you know, I think when it comes to some downtime and recreational stuff I am, I would be embarrassed to say out loud some of the movies and books that I'll read, soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's very funny. I am such a dog lover. I love the funny videos.
Yeah. And then I love the real ones, like the super aggressive dogs and the dog daddy.com. He, you know, takes care of them in a minute. Somehow, he does some magic and maybe becomes docile. And I am just such a sucker for the dog ones. Nothing beats it. How has this impacted you as ASPS President now that people want to interview you more?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Nothing beats it. The animal videos by far, you know, I can watch people, pet monkeys, you know, all of them.
Even the things I hate the most, which, like, I hate snakes and I'll watch every snake video because it's just fascinating to me. So, the, the animal videos get me every time, soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I was with you until you said snakes.
Gregory A. Greco, DO: Yeah, exactly. I don't like the snakes, but I, I, I'm fascinated by watching them. Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we're going to wrap up Beauty and the biz.
Dr. Greco, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. I know you're pressed for time. If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, should they wait until after your presidency in November? Or how would they get ahold of you?
Gregory A. Greco, DO: No, absolutely not. They can, they can visit us on our website at www.DrGregoryGreco.com. They can instant message us through Instagram on DrGregoryGreco, or @DrGregoryGreco, and then they can always call 732) 842-3737. Are just a couple of the ways to reach us. Again, everything has links to everywhere, so, you know, we are very reachable.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on my interview with ASPS President, Dr. Greco.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Greco, you can reach out to his website at, www.DrGregoryGrecocom.
A big thanks to Dr. Greco for sharing his precious time with this interview as ASPS President.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βInterview with ASPS President β with Gregory A. Greco, DOβ.
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year β with Benjamin Talei, MD".
One way to differentiate yourself in the marketplace is to work harder than everyone else, which is what enables Dr. Talei to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
That doesnβt guarantee your success, but it certainly gives you a leg up over your competitors.
Thatβs what my next Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest did. Ben Talei, MD, facial plastic surgeon set up shop in Beverly Hills and went to work.
For 6 years, Dr. Talei worked 16-hour days, 7 days per week honing his surgical skills and making a name for himselfβ¦.
β¦until he had a medial scare and had to slow down.
Now Dr. Talei βonlyβ works 12-hour days, 4 days per week providing some of the best results seldom seen.
He continues to perfect his techniques and do what others donβt, wonβt or canβt.
And he uses social media and his before/after photos to set himself apart from everyone else and build a demand he struggles to keep up with.
Here are some things we talked about:
- How he gets photo approval from his private patients
- How he gets results that others donβt
- Tips for marketing to build up a huge demand and much more
Visit Dr. Talei's website P.S. Please review!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year β with Benjamin Talei, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Talei performs 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. I have a really special guest today who does 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
It's Dr. Ben Talei. He's a cosmetic and reconstructive facial surgeon in private practice in Beverly Hills, where he founded the Beverly Hills Center for Plastic and Laser Surgery eight and a half years ago and performs 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
Now, Dr. Taleiβs a native Californian and he completed his training at Columbia University, Cornell University and New York Presbyterian Hospital, and then he served as a fellow at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (before he started performing 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year). Then, he also completed two more fellowships to learn the most cutting-edge advanced procedures available.
Now, surgeons from around the world visit Dr. Talei's Center to learn his advanced face and neck lifting techniques, as well as his revision rhinoplasty, modified upper lip lift, and his philosophy on how to achieve 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
He's also a popular speaker and published author in medical journals and textbooks, and Dr. Talei's humanitarian pursuits are numerous. He goes on searchable missions and raises funds and awareness for several organizations. And he even received a special award from Beverly Hills City Hall for his charitable works β a testament on his amazing work ethic and his ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
Dr. Talei, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you here.
Benjamin Talei, MD: Thank you. Thank you. It's great talking to you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, let's just start out with how did you end up being a facial plastic surgeon? I always found that interesting because I always thought, oh, people would grow up and they want to be a doctor. But how did you get so, specific about a facial plastic surgeon? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: I grew up not wanting to be a plastic surgeon specifically, like against it.
So, it's, it is funny. It's not something that I didn't think about. I thought about it and I hated it when I didn't know about it when I was younger. And my original goal was to become a cardiac surgeon, a brain surgeon. Then as I really learned more about the burnout rates and all that, I, I went more towards either orthopedics or head and neck cancer, orthopedics, because I do a lot of carpentry and I've always worked with my hands since I was a kid.
So, for me it was like second nature what they were teaching the third- and fourth-year residents and head and neck just because it's really, really intricated and you're dealing with cancer and big extra patients and all this. And I really loved that. I ended up going into head and neck cancer and I was going to be a head and neck cancer surgeon.
And then I started crying every day in my third year telling people they had cancer and they would cry. I would cry. And so, I decided at that point to go towards reconstruction of the cancers. And once I started following the reconstructive surgeons, I actually saw that the more challenging cases were the cosmetic ones.
So, I wanted to learn all of it, the recon and the cosmetic. And I just love the cosmetic more and more because the intricacy and the difficulty is much, much more, it's much more technically difficult to do a rhinoplasty correctly than a free flap, which sounds crazy because a free flap is a very complex surgery, which is lifesaving.
But then to get a rhinoplasty right is a little bit harder, which for me drew me towards it more. And I loved it so, much. I trained as much as I could with the ocular guys, the, the eye, the plastics, the facial. I spent years with Steven Perlman. I did the fellowship with Jacono in New York for both cosmetics and recon because he was using a lot of recon at the time.
And then I did another fellowship for pediatric vascular birthmarks where we could take out these giant tumors from kids, but they weren't really malignant cancers. So, for me it was the best of all worlds. I got to do my tumor surgery, but it wasn't a tumor that was killing anybody, so, I wasn't crying.
And that was I, how I got into that. And then I came back to Beverly Hills and I did that for a bit. And then everything went cosmetic, not by choice, just demand of what was around me and popularity. And I became pretty much all cosmetic.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, That's really interesting because number one, you went through three fellowships and most go through one at the most. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
And you two of those fellowships were with top facial plastic surgeons on Park Avenue in New York. Did you ever want to move to New York, or, or you always knew you were going to go back to California? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: No, I, became a New Yorker, you know, I was there for, for a while, so, I started walking faster, talking faster.
My patience diminished over time. So, I became a New Yorker and I thought I wanted to stay there, actually. But my family's out here in California and I'm addicted to outdoors and boating and racing cars. And so, I raced boats, cars, and I was like a ski patrol and for me it was hard to do that in New York.
And I think towards like my sixth year or something, I said, you know, if I spend one more winter here, I'm going to lose my mind. So, I'm, I like, you know, I, I, I like seasons, but I have a favorite one. And it's this, it's like, Summer, spring. That's my favorite season. So, I, that's why LA is better for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you.
How big of a stepping stone was it for you to hang around with two top, well, three top surgeons in their fields for you to get where you were going? Like how imperative was that to you? Or, or was it valuable? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: It was, it was super valuable. You learn to really just go after the best of the best. And I didn't really realize that in the beginning because I thought everybody was great and I was very optimistic.
And after a while of hanging out, you know, a while hanging out with people who were at the top of their game, you start to realize they're different than others and they tell you different things and they're giving you different advice than 95% of doctors that you were listening to. And at first, you're like, wow, this is unique.
And then after a while you realize why it is. They see things differently and I see things differently and that's why we always got along. So, for me it helped not just. Teach me what they knew, but teach me the ways to learn. So, I would actually go follow not just them, but I'd go follow other surgeons.
So, all my vacations for years, I didn't take a vacation for, for many years. They would be like a real vacation. It would be a vacation to go visit a doctor, watch them, you know, the best in every field and just keep watching. And even when I was in residency, when most of the residents were burnt out after their 16-hour shifts, I would still go work.
And it's not that I felt like I was a workaholic, I wasn't like a nerd or anything. I was still partying. But I went and did extra shifts and I would do it with Perlman. I would do it with Gary Lely with a bunch of other, you know, people in New York and the plastics guys like Sherman and lab Bruna and just Dan Baker.
I visited. Like I, I'd visit everybody I possibly could. And New York was amazing because everybody's there. It's like Beverly Hills, you know, tons of people are there. So, I got to learn so, much. And then I take trips and every time I took a vacation, I go visit somebody somewhere.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But, so, now you're, you're ready to leave New York.
You're going to Beverly Hills, but this was eight and a half years ago. It was already uber competitive in Beverly Hills. How did you have the wherewithal or the gall, or the courage to open up shop in Beverly Hills? And did you join somebody else? Did you go straight out on your own? What was that like when you got to Beverly Hills? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Well, I've always been oblivious to those things, so, it worked out in my favor. I just kind of moved back and did my thing. I didn't really care about Competition ever. I've, I've been in competitions my whole life with racing and things like that, of, of different sorts. But I was never competitive with the other people.
I just kind of just wanted to be better. So, when I moved back, it wasn't a big deal. Beverly Hills, when you look at the market, actually, it's the opposite of what most people think. It's, it's more patients. There are more patients around. There's plenty for everybody. And I've never been a competitive person, so, it didn't bother me.
And in LA you do hear a lot of that, and when I came back, I asked a lot of doctors for advice and the competitive ones told me, maybe you should move somewhere else. They said, maybe, maybe, you know, we're full over here. Consider going to Santa Barbara. Consider going. And I heard that from a lot of people and it kind of sucked because I really wanted their advice and I'm moving there anyways.
And it would be great if they, they helped, but many of them weren't open to it. And after you'd go on in practice for a while, you realize that you were just talking to, you know, not to be mean, but the mediocre people and the mediocre people. They worry so, much about competition because they have nothing to offer.
So, they're just the same as everybody else. Whereas even if you have a better personality, you're already a step ahead because, you know, doctors aren't that vibrant, they don't have that much personality. So, just a good personality, you're already ahead. You don't have to worry about competition so, much.
And then on top of that, if you have any kind of like talent, insight, good taste, that kind of stuff, you're also ahead. So, it doesn't really matter for, for the people who are trying to excel and improve all the time, it's actually a better place to be because the volume is so, much higher. So, I was able to accelerate really quickly.
You know, it's something that takes another doctor 10 to 20 years to get their volume I was doing in one year. And you just learn quickly that way. So, being, and I, and I actually tell this to the residents and fellows that we train, I say, you know what? Live wherever you want to live, you're going to be fine. I would just tell them, the one thing to realize is being in an academic establishment, even though you want to be academic, is going to slow you down.
And being in a small city is going to slow you down just because you can't get the exposure that you want. Whereas being in a big city private practice, which is not what I wanted, I wanted it to be academic, but, and I still am academic, but I'm not an academic center. But being in a big city, you have so, many patients and they all come to you.
You could work day and night. And I did, and I worked day and night for about six and a half, seven years until I got a little heart arrhythmia and then I had to slow down. So, I was working 16-hour days, six days a week. I was working Sundays too. And it was momentum, you know, I just had fun with it and I kept going and at some point, my body forbade me from doing that anymore.
It said, you have to stop. It wasn't a mental choice, it was an exhaustion type of decision where I just had to, so, I've, I've slowed down now. I'm about four days a week in the past year, and mental clarity is returned. So, it's kind of nice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good. So, when you got to Beverly Hills though, did you, Rent a spot, lease a spot Bill, do a build out? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
How did you enter the marketplace? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: I contacted every single doctor I could find. And the way you find them is on US World and news report. You go and type in plastic surgeon, dermatologist, whatever name, particular vicinity, vicinity, and you, you cold call. You actually just call their office or email them and say, Hey, like, do you want a junior in your practice?
Have you considered it? And that's what someone else told me to do. It didn't work out in the academic centers. Even though I was a specialist, a super specialist in pediatric surgery and birthmarks, they didn't want me because the academic centers are more competitive than private practices and groups are.
They are, it's, it's a lot of diplomacy. It's kind of it, it, it gets a little dirty, kind of like government, you know? It's, it's, it's, it's not super different. And I, I saw that and I got very lucky. There's a doctor here named David Hop, who is like an angelic, amazing plastic surgeon. And Catherine Wong Begovic, who's another plastic surgeon out here, said, you know what?
I'm leaving his office. He's such a sweet guy. Go talk to him. Maybe you can rent from him. Mm-hmm. And I went in, he said, I don't want any contract. I don't want anything. My handshake will do. You move in, you rent. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, no, I don't want anything from you. You just pay the rent and that's it.
No percentages, no nothing. And I'm like, wow, who is this guy? So, I moved into this tiny little office. It was perfect for me. And he gave me the office most of the time. He, he was kind of phasing out of practice and trying to do more stuff outside. And I moved into a place where I had a surgery center in my hallway so, I would never have to leave because when I trained in New York, I saw how it is when you get busy and you just don't have time to leave if you want to be efficient.
And I'm. Obsessed with efficiencies. So, for me it was amazing. And that way my overhead was low and every single penny I got, I would just put back into the practice and growing it and for staff and for patients and all that kind of stuff. And I didn't care about money. I didn't care about money for a very long time, actually even till like probably a year ago.
I didn't care at all. I just, I never looked at my bank account and my dad started managing everything. And I would do cases for free, I'd do it for half price, I'd do it for whatever. I didn't care because for me a price doesn't establish your value. You know, you telling people I'm worth a hundred thousand doesn't mean you're worth anything.
It's like giving yourself a nickname. You know, you could tell people call me like Bugsy and nobody's going to think like you're actually Bugsy Siegel, you know? But people do that. And so, I just put everything back. I didn't care about. What I had in my bank account and I kept growing and I grew very rapidly.
So, within about six months, I felt the pressure of the space. And after about a year, year and a half, I started looking for a new space. And I was very scared, but I went and looked and I thought, okay, let me build out something like this. I ended up building out something like this and I had to, because my patients were coming in at six in the morning, they were coming in at 10 at night and there would be 15 of them waiting in the hallway because I was doing a lot of injectables too.
And it got to the point where we had, you know, those restaurant pagers, Uhhuh, that people, we used to give them pagers to say like, just go shopping at Neman Marcus. We'll page you when we can fit you in and come back. That's a great idea. Yeah. Yes, everybody. Yes. I built out and I'm in the place that I call now, Beverly Hills Center, Uhhuh, and I have a little spa next door and I've got, you know, a nice facility with a big patio and everything works out for me.
And I'm still have, even though it's a huge space, it's not enough space. And so, I'm trying to break off and I'm opening to other clinics to do other things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. The clinics would be nearby but not attached. Is that the point? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. So, I already opened a spa next door probably six years ago, and for the Healing Center that I was doing.
And then now I'm opening this place called E Turn, which is an energy boosting center down the street. And then in West Hollywood I'm opening a place called Cupid Lips, which is going to be a lip center, which is like lip products. So, the front is all retail. When you walk in it's like Sephora, it looks like, and you walk in.
It's just beautiful, all retail lip products, every kind. And then the back is my injectors who do like fixing the lips, making them look more natural, dissolving little filler, little laser wrinkles deflation, all that kind of stuff. And then once a week I'll have a surgeon there who does the lip lift.
For now, I'm going to work there on Fridays, cause I have Fridays off. But then I'm going to have somebody else come in and, and do that so, he can have a nice, you know, someone else that can do lip lifts other than me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, you, you have a lot of profit centers now that you didn't have before. I think you also do hair transplant.
Do you do hair transplant? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah, so, the Healing Center that we had that's, or aura Spa. Mm-hmm. Moving those hyperbarics and l e d and IV therapies to Eter. And then I'm turning that into just the hair dedicated center, which we call Beverly Hills' Hair Group, because we've had that mixed into my regular practice for a long time, where we do a lot of f U e, so, follicular unit extraction transplantation, which is what this is.
And then we do a lot of P R P and we have a treatment called fat hair, which is. P h a t. It's platelet hybrid. What great name. Yeah. And it's, it's the strongest way to regrow or stop hair loss out of anything, out of the PRP A-Cell, stem cell treatments, exosomes, any of those things. It's the strongest.
And I became obsessed with figuring this out over about five years. So, I was doing the treatments, not, not for free, but pretty much for free. It was like at a loss for me because I had to figure it out. And then once I figured it out, what the best treatment was, I got bored with it. And I said, I don't want to do it anymore.
So, I handed it off to a couple people that I trained and, and they do it now. I kind of lose interest in things if they plateau. So, I like to create things and if, if I'm not creating, I feel redundant and boring, I'm, I'm not a person who can tell a joke twice it, I kind of feel cheesy. Doing that. So, for me to do the same surgery over and over again, it, I feel, I feel like an idiot.
So, like, I can't do it. And it's the way I cook too. I can't make the same recipe more than once. I feel like I'm just copying myself. And it's boring. You're not, you know, you're, you're nothing special. Yeah. So, if I make a new recipe, I make it just once. Never again.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, you know, some doctors call it AADD or something or AD.
So, for you it's just boredom. So, that's great. I like the way you've re-defined that. Yeah. Did you trademark the fat hair? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: I think so. Yeah. I think we, that's amazing. That is such a great name. Yeah. So, so, we did fat hair and fat lips. Mm-hmm. So, different things. And it's the same treatment, which is nano-fat with P R P, and it's a specific way of doing it.
But for hair loss it from our study we had 90% of patients had it slowed or stopped their hair loss. 30% of patients had some visible regrowth within before and after photos. And then for fat lips, it's for deflation of the area around the mouth. Especially like white women as they get older, they start to deflate here and, on the sides, and you can actually inject it with nano fat p r p and it rehydrates the mass naturally without putting a filler in there.
So, it's not technically a volumizer as a spacer, it is a stimulator that draws in water.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm certainly glad you're inventing all this. Keep it up because I need all of that. Yeah, that's fantastic. Now, do you feel like you're overextended at all? Because when you, I've just watched some practices add in more moving parts and that's more staff more overhead more management of people.
How is that going? Because that can get out of hand, right? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah, I would love to have less staff. We have my, my center is probably like 27, 28 people just running mainly my stuff. And then we have Robert Cohen, who's a plastic surgeon who I work with. So, they run for both of us. But it's mainly, mainly for me, it is a lot of staff.
It's just they run themselves so, it works out okay. And I have an amazing manager who like helped organize everything, so, I don't really have to spend too much energy running the practice. So, it doesn't affect me so, much. And then the aftercare that we use, my, my dad runs and it's 50 nurses or so, over there, but I don't have anything to do with that.
So, I don't have to do much. And then the, the, the, so, you understand the two days that I took off a week, I know it's, for most people, that's like 16 hours for me that's 36 hours. Cause it's, I, you know, 30 it was, yeah, it was only like 16, 18-hour workday. So, it's like 34 hours, 32 hours extra I have a week.
So, it's, it is not too bad, but I do feel sometimes like maybe I should just back off and do something else. But for me I would rather get everything done in a short period of time and then, Retire early and move on to something else. So, I'll go become like a boat racer again or something.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right.
So, see that I, I, lately I've been asking because a lot of us are getting older, like, what's your exit strategy for you? You're still just, you're just starting, or I, or maybe you're not, maybe your vision is, hit it hard now for a shorter amount of time and then walk away earlier. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Is that what I thought? Yeah, it, it has turned to that a little bit.
I thought I was going to operate at the same pace forever. And then I realized that people some people who enter your life in plastic surgery world aren't so, nice. People who enter your life when you become more successful aren't so, nice. And I wanted start to distance myself a little bit because I was always the empath and always the person who said like, please come in.
I trust you. You know, with, with patience, with friends, with everything. And you start to get burned a few times. And this is a lesson I learned from Jacono over and over again because he's the. The nicest person in the world to just get screwed constantly. And it's happening to me now. So, I decided that I want to have the ability to retire at a younger age.
So, I'm 41 now, and I want to have the ability to retire by the time I'm 45. Not that I'm going to retire, but that I can say in my mind that I'm retired. And then when a patient tries to extort me or threaten me or things like that, or, you know, you, I, I've, I've had patients where I said, I won't operate on you because you can tell there's something wrong with them or they don't need it, and then they start trying to threaten you and things like that.
So, I just want the ability to distance myself quickly and that'll come with, in my mind, it'll come with the ability to, to retire.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Even that's such a shame too because most people start out super nice. They're kind, everyone's happy, and then you get burned a few times and you start getting so, skeptical and you, you get that that thing on your shoulder. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
But if you looked at it as a compliment, because you're getting grief because you're rattling other people like the competitors. So, you know, take it as compliment. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. I actually went through a phase where other doctors in the beginning, because I grew so, rapidly, I kind of ignored. I ignored it.
It didn't bother me too much. But they were saying a lot of negative things because they weren't happy about it or they weren't used to somebody. Being better than them at a younger age. So, it was a bit of a hit to the ego. I don't know what it was, but something, but they, they said a lot of negative things.
They would make up things. They said, I, like s people would make up rumors that I sank my boat for insurance. They would say like crazy, weird things. Yeah. But now it got to a level where if they say something negative about me to a patient, like they sound like an idiot. So, I'm in a good place. It's, I don't hear anything negative anymore.
And it's, I think part of it is out of mutual respect amongst all of us. We're all friends, but the other is you have to be an idiot to insult me because like, my results are pretty good. So, it's, it's, it's become a really nice world as far as like colleagues go. So, colleagues and other doctors are super, super nice anywhere around the country, even if I have a patient with a complication.
Mm-hmm. I'll say really, really nice things. So, I'm, I'm super happy with how it's gone with those. And then in my own practice, Since I've found better ways to filter out patients, all my patients are super nice. The level of extortion has gone down like 90%, 99%. It, it's, it's, I'm in a very happy place at this point.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, we're all ears. What are you doing to filter them out? Because that has be, that's increasingly becoming a bigger issue. How are you doing it? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. Well, one is the approach. So, you have to think to yourself, you know, I'm going to say no to some patients that I should actually do surgery on. And you have to be willing to lose a couple patients who might be good.
Because it's like raising your threshold and you're saying I have a cutoff. When I look at these photos or I look at how someone talks, where I'm just not going to operate on them. I'm not even going to take the chance, even though they might be a nice person because they said something a little off.
Mm-hmm. And when you do that, you filter out probably eight bad people and two good people. But for me, I would lose eight good people just to save myself from one bad one. Because one bad one, ooh, it'll, it'll ruin you. You, you can have 300 good ones and one bad one, and one will come after you and destroy you.
So, that's the first thing. But the way I actually went about it was instead of having just consultations blindly saying, come into the office and we'll see you. Or instead of just raising my price, that didn't make any difference. We started raising the price a little bit just to filter out people, and we saw it really made no difference as far as getting rid of the aggressive crazies.
So, now what we do is we have messages that go back and forth. The staff talks to them. They need to get photos from the patient to see what they look like. Meaning, do they look like a nice person? Do they look like a mean person? That's one thing. And you can't always tell. Sometimes ptosis makes you look like a mean person.
But then you look to see if they actually need something. You know, you don't want to waste their time, waste your time if they don't need something, or if you can't help them, or if you should refer it to somebody else. And then you want to look to see if they've overdone stuff or if they're dysmorphic because.
If they enter your life, it's going to be very hard to fix those people and you can't satisfy them sometimes then we look at the story. So, we have them write us an email saying, why do you want to do this? What are you having done? And what doctors have you been to? If they don't tell you everything you're risking?
And I'm not willing to risk for somebody saying, well, I don't want to tell you what doctor I went to. I'm like, why don't you want to tell me what doctor you went to? I want to know. I want to know what techniques they use. I want to know, I want to be prepared, and the fact that you're not telling me scares me a little bit.
So, these things alone have filtered out a large amount of patients. And then once we look at the pictures, I glance through them and I can tell in two seconds what I want to do to somebody. So, I say what I would like to do, and if they're in line with that, we know we're on the same page. And then the coordinators give them the cost of what it would be.
At that point, so, they don't come in and kind of get sticker shock or they can go to my colleague Ali Raspberry, who works in the office also. So, that's how we've done it and it's worked out really, really well. And we've put our consulting fee not in the high range, not in the low range. So, we have it just in the middle because I don't care about 500 bucks.
Like I'm not trying to make money off of consultations. You know, it's, it's not for that reason. You want it high enough where people will kind of respect the time and not just try to talk to you for no reason. Because I don't have, I wish I had more time. I don't, you know, I used to have all the time in the world to talk to people.
Now I'm really limited and I'm stressing and it's taking away from my own life. So, I need to limit how much consultation I'm doing. And then I found, you know, if you charge 1000, 2000 for a consult, I don't see it make. Difference. It just feels more offensive. Like you're going to tell someone like a thousand dollars consult fee and they haven't met you, haven't spoken with you.
So, 500 seems to be kind of this like soft area and I really don't even care about the 500. I give it back to people if they, if I tell them I don't want to operate on you. It makes no difference for, for me. But we've actually also told them that it's non-refundable because if you say it's going towards the consult fee or towards the surgery and it's going towards fillers or towards your treatment, you think that's drawing them in.
All it's doing is they look at it like a deposit that they're going to get back if they decide not to do surgery or if they decide not to do something. And you're a bank and already a bunch of, we have patients who like look at you as like, oh, I have an investment there and I'm going to withdraw my money and I did surgery, but you know my money's still sitting there.
I'm going to get it back. So, saying that it's non-refundable has helped too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so, interesting because we've often used that to soften the blow because, well now people are a lot more used to paying a consult fee, but it was still fairly new just a few years ago. And especially when it was getting up to like 300, 400, 500. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
So, we would say by the way, to, to reserve your time with Dr. Smith because he is so, busy, we do take a credit card for a $500 deposit and it does go towards your surgical procedure. So, we used it to soften the flow. Yeah, but you're saying don't bother because you're β
Benjamin Talei, MD: Oh, it's only going to lead to trouble with some patients.
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. If somebody's going to pay 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 for a facelift, or 75 or whatever it is, mm-hmm. 500 really becomes inconsequential. And if you want to give it back to them, give it back to them, like put it into the fee, but just have the disclaimer beforehand that they're not going to have it back.
And it takes away that conversation takes away the headache and you can put it back in there. So, we actually apply it sometimes where people ask, oh, can you apply it? We say, yeah, of course. You know, we don't care. We just pop it in there. It doesn't matter.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. What, what would you say is your biggest challenge right now, the business side of, of plastic surgery? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
What would be your biggest challenge? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: The business side? Nothing. I mean, there's the difficulty in my practice is really trying to like, schedule people and work with cancellations. Because when you get a cancellation on a long case, it kind of ruins your day. So, I've found that it's a bit out of my control in the way that I run the practice.
That would be my only real difficulty because I'm not the aggressive person to say, okay, someone's got to a cancel two weeks before, let me charge them an exorbitant fee, or let me tell them they're not getting half their money. You know, things like that. And if they're a chronic counselor, I'll just not do their surgery.
You know, they don't, they, they, they don't respect our relationship, so, I don't want to do their surgery if they keep canceling on me. It's and it's fine, you know, it's like someone keeps canceling on a date. Every time you go out, they're flaking on you. You're like, okay, well I'm just not going to date you.
So, it's not a financial thing. But that's the only thing that is a bit of a struggle, which I don't really know how to navigate because I don't want to become the harsh financial person. I'd rather still stay kind of on the soft side and financially I'm fine. You know, I accept that there's going to be losses throughout the year anyways, and you can't look at things like you're going to stare at every dollar coming in out, because then your brain is always business.
It's not medicine and I just don't want to go there. So, that, but that's the only difficulty that I really have business wise. The other is the amount of staff that I have. I would love to have lower overhead. I would love to have, you know, all that if you, if you knew my overhead. It's insane. And like patients don't realize it, they don't realize that, my staff doesn't realize it.
You know, they, they, they all want raises all the time. Of course. And I want to give it to them, but my overhead's like over 500,000 a month for one doctor. It's, it's a lot of overhead. And it just takes that for 30 people, for supplies, for the rent, for God knows what that we do, but, right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you have this one manager who handles all this for you and your dad helps a little on the side. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. My, my dad now we moved him out of the office. He's got some gambling issues, so, we're, he's kind of out we're still very close, but, but he doesn't deal in the office anymore. But he was helping me for a long time. But he wasn't great at managing the people in the office to tell them what to do.
We were both very easygoing and we would just say, okay, you know, you figure it out, you're independent. And when we brought in a manager, ultimately that caused a lot of friction because they were all used to doing things on their own. So, I brought in a manager, and then I also brought in a financial controller.
So, I have Ivy, who's my financial controller. She deals with everything because there's a lot of in and out. And I, I'm somebody who does not look in my bank account. You have to understand, like even to this day coincide even now, you don't, even now, if I have to go in and do a transfer to like somebody who like, you know, worked on my car and I don't feel like telling Ivy, I'll sign into my app and I'm like, oh, that's low, or, oh, that's high.
Yeah, I, I just don't like to it's not something I'm super interested in. Even to this day. I do have a financial goal in mind now that I never had before. So, I do have to get to a certain point where I can say I can have the ability to retire, but that's the first financial goal I've ever had, ever in my whole life.
Because we grew up with no money. So, and my dad and my mom always had us comfortable. So, we didn't care. It wasn't there, there was no correlation between money and comfort. There was a correlation between money and cars. Like, I want cars. That's, that was the only correlation I ever had in jet skis. So, I would measure things in my mind in jet skis, but between money and happiness, money and comfort, there was never a correlation because we didn't have money and we were fine.
And you go through med school, no money, you go through residency, 400,000 of debt. You know, I had full riots through med school and undergrad, so, I didn't have any debt. Once I went into residency, I'm in New York, I wanted to go have fun, I started taking loans and I went through seven years. So, there's fi 400,000 of debt that I had at the end of that.
But aside from that, never had a financial thought about where I needed to be until this past year. And I said, you know what? I got to retire at some point or have the ability to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Holy cow. Now we have to talk about marketing because here's, I've watched you, I've watched you for a few years now, and you've done 3000 lip lifts. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah, over probably. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I heard you say that once at a medical conference and I, I said, did I hear that right? Did he say 3000 or 300? Then I just saw you recently in San Diego and you said it again and I said, did he say 3000? Like, how is that even possible? And you've only been in practice for eight and a half years and you do a whole bunch of facelifts every year too. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: So, and I was doing noses and I was doing 20, 30, 40 injectables a day. So, it's a, it was a lot. I was at a higher, faster pace, but as far, yeah, if you're asking how, you get there or how I got there, it was it's, it's a, it's like a popularity contest and you know, most doctors don't have the mind for learning these things because none of us are good at marketing.
It's like, it's rare we're going to come out and be good at business or marketing. I'm, I'm terrible at business. I'm great at creating things, I'm great at being creative, doing things, you know, whatever it is. That's what I like to do. I like to create and get better at things. One of those things was marketing and.
Marketing, you can do it in a cheesy way or you can do it in an organic way that just fits you as a person. And I like to do things my way. So, I always did things like that where, let's say I did a Cross-Country I did a dome a domestic violence fundraiser. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't marathon like other people did.
It doesn't suit me. I, I don't like running for money. It makes no sense. So, I organized a cross country drive where I threw parties and I drove in a Mini Cooper and I went from New York to Miami. I went 23 states, 15 parties, and we just partied the whole time and had car meet. And that's the way I did it.
So, for me, when, because I do it that way, it becomes fun. And I'm not doing it as a business thing. I'm not doing it. I'm doing it to be successful. And I like being successful. I like achieving things. So, with my marketing, I realized early on, this is mainly from Jacono. You have to touch as many people as possible.
You have to be in people's lives. And the place, and the time that this hit me was in my first year and second year where I'd have friends. Who I'm friends with on Facebook, I've known for 20 years, asked me, Hey, who should I go to for a rhinoplasty? I'm like, what? What are you talking about? I am a revision rhinoplasty specialist and I'm one of your best friends.
How do you not know this? And I was shocked that my own friends didn't know specifically what I did. And instead of being offended by it at that point, I realized, wait, that's because I'm not enough in people's lives. I'm just working all the time. They have no idea what I'm actually doing. So, I realized you just have to permeate as much as possible and to be resilient with fluctuations in economy and trends and anything that happens, you have to permeate everything.
So, you can't just be. Word of mouth. You can't just be Google; you also have to be YouTube. You also have to be Instagram. You also have to do this, that you have to do a million different things. And it's sort of like when you see a billionaire succeed, they didn't succeed because they had one financial venture.
Usually it's, they probably had a hundred and a bunch of them failed, and a few of them were successful. And that's how it goes, and that's how marketing is. So, you have to constantly be thinking about it and doing it and putting yourself in people's lives however you do it. But if you do it in a cheesy way, you will probably get tired of it.
It's not fun. And people will see that you're a cheese ball. So, I never did it that way. I did it organically and everything I did was kind of fun. And I started having fun with posting things on Instagram. And Instagram was like a blessing to, to all of us. It really just put all of us out there and you can start talking about your procedures without, you know, needing to publish in a, in an article where some megalomaniac is trying to keep you from publishing new things because it doesn't match what they want.
And so, Instagram was like a blessing really. But I'm all over the place. So, I've, I've done a lot of things and that's why in eight years or eight and a half years, or at that point, it was more fun when I was popular at two, three years because I was like 32 years old and I was lecturing amongst the top guys and I was being invited to all these conferences.
It was more of a novelty at that point where they're like, oh my god, this guy's so, young now. It's kind of like, okay. He's kind of young, he's 41. You know, they invited me to be a professor in Mexico, so, I'm a professor in in in in, in Monterey, in Lama, which is one of their top plastic surgery programs.
And they were nervous bringing me in as a facial plastic, which is a big deal because they're very competitive. It's very old school there. And they were even more nervous saying he's young because he is like 50. And then they brought me in and gave me the reception and they're like, we can't believe we brought in somebody so, young and also official plastics.
You're barely even 50 years old. I'm like, I'm 39. And they're shocked. So, it was more fun. The younger I was. Now I'm actually like at a respectable age, I think, to be where I am. But either way to get there that quickly, I had to do a lot of surgeries and a lot of putting myself out there and doing as much as possible at all times.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I have to go back to the 3000 lip lifts. I don't even know 3000 people. How did you, where did you find all these people? And do you do it incredibly fast? And is, is it a special technique? I know you have that you, you have a trademark too, but can you just explain how did you get there? Because I've often said to some of the new, the young up and coming facial plastics, I say, why don't you just pick something like lip lift? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Why don't you just get really good at lift lifts? You'll go after the younger market, they'll age with you, and then you can get their bleph and facelift later and they're like, oh no, it'll leave a scar. They're going to, they're not going to be happy with it. And I think, I'll bet, I'll bet you don't think that way, do you? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Well, I have a few ways that I think about it. So, First of all, as far as like niche specialization. Yeah. I tell people not to jump into picking it to become successful. It'll pick you like you'll, it'll, the, the demand will come after whatever your natural talent happens to be. So, you have to really pick what you like doing and ultra-focus on a few things, become really good at them, and then you'll start to narrow down once your taste develops.
Because in the beginning you don't know what's good or bad, and the more you do, you start to realize your own failures. You start to realize where you excel, where you're better than other people and you keep excelling and then people start coming to you more for it when they see your results are better and better anyways.
And you do end up becoming a specialist or super specialist if you're someone who hyperfocus is because you can't deal with not being the best in something. So, at some point that'll happen naturally and organically anyways. But the lip lifts in the beginning, I didn't go chasing them. What happened was I, my first lip lift I did was on a really hot friend of mine who in New York, this girl Anastasia, who was just gorgeous, and she wanted me to do a lip lift and I learned how to do lip lifts from Andrew whom at that time he didn't do a ton, but he was doing more than most people.
Mm-hmm. And I did it on her and it came out nicely. And she's beautiful. And I posted her photo and all of a sudden, like another beautiful girl camp, another beautiful girl camp. And it became all of these young girls where classically, since 1970s it was 60-year oldβs, 70-year oldβs getting it for an elongated fil trim and lack of tooth show.
Mm-hmm. Whereas now a younger girl can get it for improved balance, sexiness, shape, all this kind of stuff. As I did more and more in my first year, I. I quickly try to, I'm always trying to change something, so, I quickly changed it to a deep, plain approach, which nobody had described before. And to this day, people argue who, which I've done 3000 plus now and I've done, God knows how many other lip procedures and how many lip injectables.
Like I know the lip anatomy and I know it very, very well to this day. People still argue with me, people who have done like a hundred, they argue with me about what the lip anatomy is. And I'm like, dude, I've seen it in every possible shape and form and I know it better than you. But they still argue with me either way.
There is a deep plan. And I realized this early on as I tried to dissect deeper and do what I was doing in the facelift that Andrew had thought and I started releasing and I saw, wow, you know, the muscle function is better. It's doing this, it's doing that. They less scarring. And I started doing on more and more young people.
The young people are what set me off because yeah, it hadn't been done and or at least not repetitive, there was Randall Hayworth who is amazing and he is in Beverly Hills and he was doing a bunch but he was the only one really doing it on young patients. And once people saw this, it spread in social media.
And social media wasn't that big back in 2014. So, 20 13, 20 14, like Kim Kardashian had like the most in the world and she had like 50,000 followers. Oh wow. Right. So, it wasn't big back then, but enough, that word got to Europe. So, people in Poland, I had quoting me, people in Germany, people in different areas were quoting me and I didn't really even know about it.
And that's how the modified upper lip lift, which is the deep plane, kind of grew. And I didn't publish it until a long time later because I didn't think anybody cared. And then I kept getting requests to lecture about it and I said, okay, well here's the publication on how I do it. Teaching people is the best way to learn.
You teach, you think things through, you start talking about it and you realize that you don't understand everything and you need to understand more to teach them better. Then they tell you things because you talk to them and you learn more. The other thing that happens is you realize your failures. Because I would teach somebody, they'd go back to Australia, they'd go back to Germany, they'd go back to Spain, and then they'd send me pictures afterwards and it would be a total failure.
Yeah. And I look at it, I'm like, shit. Like, what did I do wrong? You know, it's like your child's going to jail. It's like, what did I do wrong here that my kid's in prison? And I thought about it and I said, you know, it's not them. It's not their lack of talent, it's my lack of explanation. They're going into a new territory.
Mm-hmm. So, I try to find a mathematical way to explain it, because doctors are not artistic. Doctors are not super insightful. Doctors are not tasteful. Most people aren't tasteful. Right. People have common sense. Most people have common tastes. And that's not great taste. That's like average. So, I was trying to teach people this and I realized you can't give them those things.
So, maybe I can make a mathematical equation that can be reproduced. And with that, I started going back and measuring all this things that I was doing to take down the numbers, look for a pattern. I'm good at finding patterns. And after like. Two months. I'm like, oh shit. I've been drawing this slope the whole time, and that's how I've been getting these results.
And I started naming the lines. I realized there were last contention lines and all these patterns in the lip, and it started to come to me and I wrote the paper and I left it there. And two years later, it was like during Covid. I look at it and I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, it says Cupid, like I looked at the lines and they're named Central Peak Intermediate Diagonal.
And that's what I was using to describe the doctors who were visiting me. I'm like, you have these relaxed, intentional lines. And so, I came up with the Cupid lift. Yeah. And it figured out the algorithm. So, now I have an algorithm which helps me teach people. And I have a couple more exciting things that I'm going to do with it very soon, which I like.
I don't impress myself very often. I impress myself. I was like, that's a good one. So, I have a few things that I'm, I'm doing, I'm, I'm a little bored with the lip lift itself just kind of plateaued. I'm waiting for somebody else to take over the reins and teach me something, because now they have all the info.
I've come up with new like nomenclature. In the article, I came up with words. I, I came up with the word Lego lobbyists. And it's a word now though, because they published it in a peer reviewed journal. What does. Lagos, it's the inability to close the mouth. Like the, you have Laos for the eye, you have Lago Labio for the lip, and when people lay down you get more tooth exposure because of the gravity and the change in the muscle function.
Mm-hmm. So, either way, there's a bunch of stuff in there where I'm just waiting for somebody else to really comprehend it and them to take it to a point where I couldn't have, because I, I've thought enough about this, where I'm a little rigid now, I think. And I need somebody else to create something so, I can jump on their bandwagon and figure out what they're doing.
But for now, I'm kind of plateaued. But this new algorithmic thing that I'm doing is very cool, which you'll know about it in a couple months.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, you're taking that QPI theme and, and opening up retail shops? Like where, how far are you going with that? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: I want to open at least five locations and the, in the next couple years.
And the whole idea is reproducibility and quality control. So, there was a company called Lifestyle Lift and Lifestyle Lift Of course. Yeah. Was. A mega company for marketing, but a total shit company for quality of quality. You know, you can go to an amazing surgeon like Kevin Saddi, who was doing this early on in his practice, and he's, you get lucky because you go to Kevin or you can go to like Joe Schmoe and he's never done a facelift ever.
And they're forcing him to do it in two hours, which is what they used to do under local anesthesia. And you get this totally terrible scar filled facelift and they were misleading people. So, what I want to do is full quality control, which means I teach one surgeon in one city and completely like, watch them operate, get them to reproduce what I'm doing, which is easy now with my article.
It like spells it out for you. Mm-hmm. And then open one in West Hollywood, which is opening next month. Miami, next Dallas, Toronto, Mexico City. I want to be Dubai, London, and Riyadh. And then I'll be happy, only focused on the lips. Only lips. Yeah. Yeah. You go in there and you get everything for lips. It could be a lip plumper, a lip a lip moisturizer, a lip filler, lip dissolver, lip, laser, lip, everything lip lift.
And so, the cupid lift is going to be the surgery that we offer at Cupid Lips. We also have something called a Cupid Compendium, which is going to be a video library for people to learn because injectors come out starving for good injection technique and they don't have it. And I'm, I'm a I, I do a lot of teaching in the injection world, so, I'm going to do videos of myself teaching, but I'm also going to get the top injectors to make videos for me.
Because I've done them favors, they got to do me a favor. So, I'm going to have them put their video in the compendium and we're going to give access to, to everybody to go use it. And I think it's going to help a lot cause they can watch it repeatedly rather than visiting somebody's office seeing it once and really not grasping it.
So, I have a bunch of cubit themed things that are coming along with it and getting, including the Cupid calculator, which that's, that's what I'm working on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's terrific. So, what advice would you give other surgeons, because it sounds like you're pretty entrepreneurial and most aren't, you know, and I can see why not though. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
When you're going to become a surgeon, you're fairly scientific, you're very analytical. It's not normal for you to also be entrepreneurial and creative and artistic and it is not normal. We're back to the normal. But where, where, where can, where do you see this industry going? Do you see doctors still going out of fellowship and opening up their own practices going entrepreneurial and trying to hook up with some kind of business and turn things into franchises? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Like what do you think about that? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Well, the, the, so, first question about my advice for people going into practice and then. This question about where it's going are two very different things. Very. Where it's going is changing a lot because you're always going to have private practice, you're always going to have the individual, you'll have academia.
But what's happening now is private equity is getting into buying out practices. Now they're mostly interested classically in multiple group practices with insurance bases. So, they're doing ophthalmology, dermatology, that kind of stuff. Now they're looking at cosmetic because it's cash pay and, but you need replaceable parts.
And where do you get that? Is med spas. So, they're really going after med spas. Yeah. So, the entrepreneurial business-minded surgeon which there are many of them actually, because you get a ton of sociopaths going into plastic surgery, then they all want money. So, there will be a bunch going into private equity for sure.
As far as the people who want true success and meaning success in surgery as a surgeon those are like the people I train every day who come in and visit me. We have usually like four or five visitors every day in, in the operating room. And when they're younger, the first thing I try to tell them, I'm very harsh about it, and they think I'm an asshole.
Sometimes they think I'm arrogant, but I I'm trying to teach them, and I'm trying to tell them, I go, listen, 95% of what you are learning and what you've heard from people will lead you to mediocrity 95%. And you have to, and they don't get it. And I say, what's the most commonly used filler in the world? And I say, what's the worst filler in the world?
And they're like, oh, it's the same. What's the most commonly performed facelift in the world? It's mass cation. What's the worst facelift? It's mass cation. And I say, do you understand the pattern here? People are not that good. And so, and it's the sad reality. It is, it's plastic surgery is not evidence-based medicine.
It is not like you're an internist and you have a consensus on what the best blood pressure medication is, and everybody just upgrades to that. It's not like that. It's a free for all. You can go do whatever you want and it's up to you and your insight and your taste and your reflection. You know, that's, that's really how it is.
So, people have, there's a huge variety and then you fall back into high school where in high school you have 95% of people on this part of the curve, and you have 5% of that part of the curve. So, I try to teach them this is true reality, and you have to understand this. If you want to be the best, if 95% of people tell you this is how you start your practice, this is what you go do, this is how you do it.
You hang your shingle, you do this, you do that. You start working for somebody and 5% of people like me tell you no, that is not what you do. You really want to listen to 95%, you're going to become just like them. You're going to be average. You're going to have that 10-year course where you have a successful practice after 10 years, 20 years after you're fully established.
And you know, if you're fine with that, great. But if you're somebody who wants to be best of the best and really excel, then you can't follow those people. You have to follow the 5%. So, I try to teach them, I give them so, many examples until they really like clicks. But you have to follow that. And I say 5% because 5% it's a lot.
And there are a lot of good people. And the same thing in finance world. Same thing in the real estate world. Same thing in every single world you go into, arts, anything. The top 5% are the outliers, not the full outliers, that's the 0.1%. But they're the outliers who lead the field and who progress then neither.
95% are the morons. And you have to look at it that way because you cannot listen to the 95% and do what they do. You can listen to it and learn from it. And then go do your own thing. And that's really what I try to teach them and try to teach them that in plastic surgery, do not believe a single thing that you read in an article.
Are these AR articles published are fully biased. They're by people who they're all opinion pieces by the way. They're not like evidence-based medicine and plastic surgery. There are a few articles that are like evidence-based. The rest are fully opinion. And the opinion was different in 1970 than it is now.
And there's a lot of lies that are repeated over and over and over again. I teach them, have you ever heard the word muscle tightening? Have you ever heard the word smash tightening? And they're like, yeah. I go, have you ever seen a muscle tighten? Is it possible? It's not even possible. And it's been repeated so, many times, smash tightening.
What are you talking about? I show them, I go, look at this mask. It's a hydrator fatty layer. How are you going to concentrically tighten fat? What are you going to do? You're you, you're going to melt it. Right? It atrophies, you lose volume. It's the opposite. But it's been parroted and repeated so, many times people think that this stuff is real and that's why plastic surgery doesn't progress.
That's why plastic surgeons make weird looking people. Mm-hmm. Over and over again. That's why plastic surgeon has a bad reputation. So, I try to teach them, don't believe everything. It's not true. Even though people repeat it a million times, they repeat a million times that you need to extend the skin elevation past the last wrinkle on your neck to get a good skin improvement.
And then I show them a picture of me having only elevated up to here and I have improvements all the way across the chest better than they've had in any photo in their lives. My worst photo is better than their best photo and they still argue. So, I try to teach the residents and the fellows coming in and say, listen, accept the reality.
It is what it is. If you want to excel, listen to everybody, but follow the top 5%. And don't argue with the 95%. Let them do what they want to do. I've argued enough in presentations where I have to get up on stage and I say, I disagree with everything that was just said. Yeah, I've heard you. So, you've heard this.
And it's because I'm there to teach. I'm there to teach the best of the best. I want people to improve. I'm not there to teach them how to be mediocre. You know, they can be mediocre on their own if they're, they want my time. I'm there to teach them how to be the best of the best of what I want to be.
Maybe I'm not the best, but I think I am. So, I want to teach them, you know, whatever I think is best.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I find that so interesting because you have beliefs that are strong, you know but you know, you're the best. But did you always know you were, or you were, or you wanted to be the best and then you just worked harder at it, or you were willing to? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: No, no, no. When I started, I did not think I was the best. Now, If you look at my photos, it's not arrogance. It's just like, okay, show me someone who's better than me. And if they are, I want to go do it. And so, that's what I kept doing actually. So, I kept looking at other people's photos and if it was better than my photo and something, I would either learn from them and get there or I'd refer out.
So, that's actually how the evolution happened in my practice, was I would refer everything out where I wasn't the best. I'd be embarrassed if somebody comes to me and they want a whatever kind of procedure, if I'm going to give them less of a result than someone else would, I failed. So, I send it to somebody else, I don't care.
I'm like, I just want them to get the best result because it reflects better on me. I want to be like a good surgeon and I want to look at my before and afterβs and be proud. And if I can't, you know, because people think that what makes you a good surgeon is caring about the patient. That makes you a caring doctor.
It doesn't make you the best surgeon. What makes you the best surgeon is you looking at your βbefore and afterβsβ and not being happy with them until they're better than everybody else's. And you're not being biased about it. You're looking at every single photo. You're not lying to yourself. You're seeing things and you say, ah, okay, I finally got it.
Versus, Nope, that needs to be better. That needs to be better. And that's what I do in every single before and after photo. So, patients come back and I tell them, I go, we have to go fix something. And they're like, no, I'm happy. It's great. What are you talking about? I'm like, no, no. You have this little thing here.
We have to go fix it. I'm not doing it for them at all. I'm doing it. So, my picture can be great. And I can look at my picture and show my mom and say, mom, look what I did. You know? So, that's, that's how I've always been. And I think that is what makes me excel is that I, I love patients. They're fantastic, but I don't do it for them.
I do it for me. Hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really big tip that you're, you're giving there. That's a different perspective. Good for you. Regarding the photos of patients, you get a lot of photos and a lot of vid video patient testimonials and you know, I hear over and over again, my patients are so, private and I think Okay. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
If that's true, how is Dr. Talei able to do it in Beverly Hills? Do you have a secret for getting these people to approve before and after photos and showing full on face? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. Well, the secret is you have to do probably 20 times more surgery than most people do, which is how I got all my before and after photos.
I was operating six days a week. Mm-hmm. And I would get 10% of patients giving me photos in facelift and maybe 5% in rhinoplasty. Now with rhinoplasty, it wasn't feeding my ego enough. It hurt me that people weren't letting me use the photos because they let me use it much more in aging face. And that plus my neck problems have kind of.
Giving me a distaste for rhinoplasty, even though I was like, I spent my whole life becoming good at rhinoplasty. But the aging face stuff, they share a little bit more now. It's still not that many compared to whom I actually operate on. If you see like the number of people I operate on, if I, if I do six facelifts a week, I'll get one photo out of it maybe.
And then videos, I'll get out of 30 facelifts, I'll get maybe one video. And I never pressure patients to do it. Just when I take their before and after photos, I show it to them and I say, would you like me to keep this private or can I share it? And that's the easiest way. Some people do it beforehand.
Now there are other practices who have a heavy TikTok influence or have a really heavy Instagram influence. And they have a younger population who is very into social media. They automatically like to share. So, they come in already like saying like, I want to be part of this community where all these patients are sharing.
So, if you have a bunch of patients, Talking all the time and sharing their experiences and crying and having these emotional videos. The patients that come in, came in because of that cause they want to be part of that community. So, it's much easier in those practices. That's not my practice. My practice is the private high-end Beverly Hills expensive person, you know?
So, I have to do a lot of volume to, to, to get the photos that I get. But aging face, they let you show a little bit more than, than rhinoplasty in general. Unless you're like, you know, Richard Zuma, who's like one of my really good friends and co-fellow director, he is amazing plastic surgeon for knows, and he gets so, many because people fall in love with, well his results are incredible, but it's also like his videos, they're amazing if you watch them, I watch them and I'm like addicted to them.
They're amazing. And he DJs the music himself. Wow. So, I'm not on all of them, but on some of them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, nice. I'll check that out. All right. You know, we're going to wrap it up now, but I hear you have a piano in your lobby. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: What, what's I got too? I got a few.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. We have to talk about the piano in the lobby and the little car next to you. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
So, what, what's going on with you, with your interests? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. Well, I started playing piano when I was a kid and I started composing when I was like 10 years old. And then I stopped composing when I was about 20. So, I had written I donβt know, probably like 50 something songs. And they're not with lyrics, but they are with the, the story.
They all have kind of a story. And the piano I have in my office was kind of a dream of mine, where initially when I was building my office, I wanted to build it like Andrews, I wanted to build it like Promen. I wanted to build like Unas where it was more of a classic style, classic Victorian style because you're trying to cater to the patient.
Then I started talking to my friend who's a designer, Antonio Risi, and he has this company called Prototype Design Lab. And he started trying to pick my brain to see what I wanted. And I have no taste in like furniture and interior design and architectural design. Maybe I had a little, but it was hidden.
I didn't know. And so, he starts extracting it out of you. And one of the things he saw was that I really did always want a piano in my lobby to be playing. Either I play it or it's self-playing. So, we actually designed the lobby to fit the piano, but also in the shape of a grand piano. So, when you walk in, my couch curves out like this and it parallels the piano, which is sitting over there.
And the floor, the tile is three-dimensional white and black tile. So, it looks like piano keys and the chrome louver is kind of look. So, it's, it's a very cool reception. And it's now seven and a half years old probably. And it looks like it hasn't aged a day like the reception. It's a very cool office and I'm so, happy I did that rather than trying to cater to the patient because I'm spending so, much time in there, like I want it to be fun.
I was spending 16 hours a day, six days a week. And like I wanted to be somewhere where I wanted to look around and appreciate. Cause I like pretty things. You know, maybe I'm not the best at creating them sometimes with, like, furniture that I have no idea how. But I like looking at them. I like looking at art.
I like, it's, it's like nice to look at. My favorite thing to look at is cars. So, I have I've been working on more recently focusing on finally achieving that dream because I ignored that for a very long time. I've raced cars since I was a kid. I've been a car fanatic, but I never thought I'd be able to afford any of these cars.
So, I had it kind of in the back burner. And then at some point I just kind of bit the bullet, said, you know what? Let me get it. And I'm, I got so, happy from this one car. I'm like, I got to get another one. I got so, happy from that. I'm like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. What did you get? I have a, a couple cars. I have a, well the, the one that drove me over the edge was the 4G T.
So, I have a 2006 4G T, which is a like pure analog track car, which means 700 horsepower, zero assist in breaking, zero, assist in steering, zero, assist in anything. So, it's that is one of the most amazing things to drive. And then this one's a BMW Isetta, which is a, Isetta 300. It's from 1960. And that's a lawnmower engine.
It's usually covered, but that's a lawnmower engine. It has 13 horsepower. It barely makes it up my hill. And I brought it into the house now that I brought it in, I can't get it out. So, it, it's going to be here for a while unless I take it to the backyard and crane it over.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so, you, I, because I was going to ask you like, tell us something we don't know about you.
I'm pretty sure your car collection, you have like a little car collection going, don't you? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Starting. I wouldn't call myself a car collector. I am a car enthusiast and obsessed with cars, and I will, in the next few years, have a decent number where you'd look at it and say, wow, he does have like a little collection.
It won't be an impressive one. But the types of cars are very well curated. So, if you look at them, they're, they all have kind of their place in history where it was a very special or iconic car. They call them all iconic cars, but they're all iconic.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So, like what, what's a vision of one of them that you don't have yet, that you want? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: My dream of all dreams would be a Maserati MC-12, which is 51 were made, they said 50, but there's two number fifties. So, 51 were made in 2005βish where when the Ferrari Enzo came out and it's the they made a more beautiful version of any car ever. So, that was my favorite classic kind of car or collectible.
Whereas my favorite newer car, which I can't even put into my dream list, would be a Paani Utopia, which is the, in the, there was a Pagani Pra, another Pagan utopia. It's the most beautiful car to date built. It's gorgeous and it looks like a watchmaker made, and that's how they built it. It looks like a watchmaker and it has a tour beyond inside the speedometer and tachometer.
So, it's in incredible. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford that unless I like sell my house for it, but that would be a remote dream.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay. Yeah, I want to see that when that happens. I have to go Google it. I don't, I don't even know what it looks like. So, with the one more thing though that we nobody knows about you, you mentioned cooking. How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
I think you're a pretty good cook, aren't you? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: I'm, I'm, I'm an amateur cook, but I make everything up myself, which is the fun part. So, since I was a kid, I started cooking when I was like, probably like five, six years old. I made my first like eggs and then I would make myself breakfast every morning when I was seven, eight years old.
And I started cooking more classic, like Persian food and stews, like when I was nine or so. And from there just would watch my mom cook and figure things out. And the fun for me started after like, high school more, where before high school I was all about like fried chicken. So, I make like all fried chicken recipes and different things.
But I got a little more creative afterwards as my palette expanded a little bit and I would Try to create recipes or recreate them when I would get inspired by being in a restaurant without looking at a recipe. So, I would just make it, and after like 50% failures, I went to 40% failures, 20% failures where it just wouldn't taste good.
And then now I'm at the point where almost everything I make tastes good without me tasting it. So, I'm not somebody who tastes as I go to see if it's good, I like to kind of envision what flavors will go together. And I'll make something I'd never made before. And it works. And the way I do it is I just walk around the market, pick a bunch of things that I'd like, and then I come put them on my counter and I say let me make this.
And I just start putting it together. So, I started a cooking page on Facebook a while back called Bent's Kitchen, and then I started a hashtag on Instagram called Bent's Kitchen. So, I, I would actually remember some of the ones that I made. I learned this from when I composed all my piano songs. I would compose them.
I never actually transcribed them. I only transcribed a few of them. I videotaped a bunch. But with the recipes, I thought it was a shame that I had made so, many and forgot I had ever made them. So, I started taking photos and I would just write a brief description of what it was. So, I have a hashtag Ben's Kitchen.
I have an Instagram page, mentality's Kitchen, but it's only the more recent kind of stuff that's been uploaded to it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, are you getting any sleep? I know you were supposed to because your heart wanted to take a rest, but I Do you get any sleep? How did this impact your ability to perform 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Yeah. I'm in a good position now. So, I, I, I used to come home at 10:00 PM from work and then I'd be on emails till midnight and I'd be back at work.
I'd be back in the office at five or even four 30. So, I'd have to be up at four or four 30 at that point. And I'd just take a nap somewhere here and there. Now I sleep a decent amount, so, I get home, I work like 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and then do a couple things here and there. I'm usually asleep by like 11, so, it's not, not too bad anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, you're still young. You can, don't do it while you can, because when you get older, boy it doesn't, it does. It changes. It really does. I never thought it would, but it does. Anyway. It has been a pleasure having you. Dr. Talei, if anybody wanted to get ahold of you, which I'm afraid they're going to say yes.
How would they, how would they communicate?
Benjamin Talei, MD: Most people just contact me on Instagram. So, it's Dr. Ben Talei. So, they put "Dr. Ben", d r b e n and it pops up. And then my website's, www.BeverlyHillsCenter.com. That domain name was available when I was graduating Fellowship and I was like shocked. So, I got Beverly.
That's crazy. Oh my God. Who didn't grab that? That's crazy. I don't know, but I was so, happy because I was having trouble figuring out what to name my practice or what to name. Because you can't put Tai, like people can't spell t a l e i. It's too many. Yeah. You know, it's easy for me, but it's not for other people.
And. I, I had a list of names that I liked. One of them was Beverly Hills Center, and I looked it up, I'm like, there's no way this is on GoDaddy. And I ended up buying it. And Great website. Have you always been lucky? Things work out for me in general. Not, not like I've had like horrible relationships a few times, but otherwise I've but I went into them kind of knowingly sacrificing, so, otherwise you've always been pretty fortunate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and I think hard work. What's that quote? I'm the, the harder I work, the luckier I get. It's probably one of those, but boy, I mean, just watching you from afar. You are crushing it. So, congratulations. Keep up the good work. I'll be watching. I'll be at the next meeting as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, thank you so, much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Talei performs 3k lip lifts plus 300 facelifts per year.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Talei, you can reach out to his website at, www.BeverlyHillsCenter.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Talei for sharing his philosophy on performing 3k lip lifts and 300 facelifts per year.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for β3k Lip Lifts Plus 300 Facelifts Per Year β with Benjamin Talei, MDβ.
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#howtoperformmoreliplifts #howtoperformmorefacelifts #drbentalei #drbenjamintalei #bentaleimd #benjamintaleimd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to prepare your practice to survive and thrive.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Prepare your practice to Survive and Thrive".
This podcast is for you ifβ¦
- You are the main revenue generator in your practice
- You canβt figure out how to grow your practice without dramatically increasing your overhead and working harder
- Youβre looking for a plan to turn your practice into a sellable asset if and when you are ready to exit
But, times are changing so quickly and will continue to change at a rapid rate due to the economy, Artificial Intelligence and other cosmetic rejuvenation advancing technologies.
Prepare now so youβre able to adapt to weather the good times and the bad times, since nothing stays the same so knowledge is power and acting on the knowledge is everything!
Because the objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so itβs more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with.
Because the ultimate goal to scale your practice includes a system that attracts a steady stream of cash-paying patients, WITHOUT spending a fortune on advertising, chasing down leads, hiring more staff, discounting services or performing on social media.
In other words, a "faster, easier, cheaper way to more cosmetic patients and profits.β
So here are 3 things you need to grow a scalable practice and to prepare your practice to survive and thrive:
Leverage β use your assets you already have to generate more revenues with less effort and overhead to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Bankable Profits β not just revenues, but profits you actually take out of the practice and
Transferrable Value β means you have separated you from the practice so you have the freedom to sell to someone else when itβs time to exit
But there are challenges ahead to prepare your practice to survive and thriveβ¦
Did you hear what happened?
Privacy issues are killing your plans for attracting new patients to your practice.
So much is happening behind the scenes with Apple, Google and FaceBook trying to dominate consumer data capture, so they are no longer sharing data with advertisers like before.
This is making it very difficult for you to attract new PREFERRED patients when you can no longer target specifically to certain audiences. And that means Ad results will become incomplete and inaccurate because you now have only 10% of the data that used to be 100% available.
So that will force you to increase your advertising budget substantially, as in 30-80% and HOPE the broader, less targeted audience is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
Itβs very similar to old-school mass advertising like TV. You spend a fortune to talk to everyone, rather than a targeted audience most likely to want your services.
So not only do your ad costs increase dramatically, so do poor quality leads. Since your ads are not as targeted to your preferred patients, you get a mixed bag of the public contacting you.
Now your staff wastes a lot of time triaging these leads to determine who is really serious and who is flaky.
So, you need well-trained staff and processes to qualify leads.
BTW, if you arenβt already, I recommend you charge a consult fee so at least, your time is better protected from wasted consults who have no intention of moving forward.
Regardless of their motives, these few Internet companies affect you big time if you are using paid advertising to attract new cosmetic patients.
Itβs complicated and technical so Iβll leave that to your internet company to explain but, suffice it to say, itβs going to get even more expensive to advertise for a new cosmetic patient with less than stellar results.
This major increase in advertising costs has now made SEO popular again; however, the supply is much greater than the demand so itβs getting near impossible to rank on the 1st page.
And now AI has taken off and can write content for you and everyone else so that will add a whole new level of complexity and
On top of that, Google is also using AI and turning into an answer engine in which they are answering consumerΒ questions without them having to go to your website.
Another huge challenge you want to plan for is your social media strategy.
I believe this is where we need to head so I would spend time understanding it and getting good at it because itβs your only differentiator in a sea of massive content coming at prospective patients.
However, please keep in mind, you are only renting those followers.
IG and FB own them so they are, in essence the landlord.
That means they can raise the rent and/or kick you out at any time, so you lose your data youβve spent years collecting.
Iβm sure youβre aware that social media and plastic surgery donβt get along.
You are showing graphic material that can be offensive or hurt the self-esteem of the public so they can close down your account without notice.
They also decide who sees your organic content. FB & IG continually strangle your list to force you to βpay to playβ by buying advertising. The latest stats show only 5.2% of your followers actually see your organic content so you have this false sense of security thinking youβre marketing your practice when, in fact, itβs drying up right before your eyes.
So, to counter this, I recommend you own the data to help prepare your practice to survive and thrive!
You can no longer trust that audiences you have built on social media platforms will be available to you.
The 1st party data is the future and the money is in your patient list data.itβs become your best targeted list because they already raised their hand indicating they are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
Use landing pages to capture your followersβ name, email and cell so you can stay in touch no matter what happens.
Iβm imploring you to use the data and resources you already have built up over the years being in practice since itβs no longer easy to come by.
Another big challenge is Technical Advancements are coming at patients fast and furiously.
Just google non-surgical and look what pops up. What that means to you is plenty of patients still need your surgical expertise; however, way more will opt for non-surgical procedures first to delay surgery
So, meet them where they are now so you donβt lose them to non-surgeons and med spas.
Develop that relationship early so they come for non-surgical AND stay for surgical procedures and they come for SX and stay for non-SX for years to come.
Given these challenges, how CAN you scale your practice and prepare your practice to survive and thrive?
- Attract more patients from proven marketing channels that worked for you to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
- You encourage these patients to Return more often & spend more at each visit to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
- Encourage referrals, reviews and sharing on social so you DONβT spend on advertising for new patients to help prepare your practice to survive and thrive
This will take a mindset shift to prepare your practice to survive and thrive...
The short-term, one-and-done mentality is a tough game to play in todayβs world. Instead, look at each patient as an unpaid practice revenue-generator who brings you new patients for free.
Once you embrace this βpatients for lifeβ mindset, you will treat your patients differently and they will react in kind by building your practice for you organically.
So, hereβs what Iβm proposing to prepare your practice to survive and thriveβ¦
Enjoy the surgical side of your practice while also building up your non-surgical as a healthy stand-alone profit center and hereβs whyβ¦
Patients enter different doors to cosmetic rejuvenation, so you want to meet them where they are. Some will go straight to SX and then stay for more, while others dabble in non-surgical, some for years, before they are ready for your SX option.
And the beauty of our industry is that Cosmetic Consumers Have ENDLESS NEEDS.
The non-surgical industry has grown dramatically thanks to social trends, social media and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the demand.
And letβs face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves and then we finally have had enough and do something about it and then what do we do?
We find the next thing that bothers us about us and focus on that.
It never ends and thatβs what keeps all of us in business!
I also looked up the most recent Aesthetic society stats and non-SX is now 1/3 of all aesthetic procedures performed and thatβs growing.
And, hereβs another interesting statβ¦ Loyal non-SX patients spend 67% more than new patients and that makes sense because
If they know, like and trust you, they are open to your recommendations and will gladly buy your packages when offered.
This increases their lifetime value and decreases your advertising budget and that makes for a great P&L statement.
So, itβs the Retention of your patients that scales your practice using resources you already have and paid dearly for.
You likely have a database of hundreds or thousands of patients.
Can you imagine what would happen to your bottom line if a majority of them returned for more and referred their friends?
I know for a fact many of them would gladly return and refer if given the opportunity. Heck, even google agrees:
One day, I was so frustrated with all the changes going on in digital advertising and tripling your costs to get mediocre results,
I googled how can I get more cosmetic patients and hereβs what google said.
How to increase patient volume in your cosmetic surgery practice:
- Get more reviews for your cosmetic surgery practice
- Enhance your online presence
- Donβt miss out on the social media platforms
- Positive or negative, respond to reviews
- Train your staff
- Build strong relations with existing patients, referrals will follow
I happen to have a solution that addresses most of these so check out KissLoyaltyClub.com for details.
BTW, hereβs the greatest missed opportunity
Word-of-mouth referrals to prepare your practice to survive and thrive.
That should be growing every year for you so if itβs not, something is off.
Duct Tape Marketing says 83% of business owners claim their main source of new business is referrals.
But hereβs the crazy part...
93% of customers say they would refer their friends to you
BUT only 29% actually do.
Work on the 64% difference β thatβs where the money is (not your TikTok videos)
Do you even ask referrals?
This cannot a happy accident. It needs to be a process.
Treat your patients well, give them a great experience and results and then ask them to refer their friends.
So, To pull this altogether, here is the structure to follow to scale your practice in this order.
Increase referrals and reviews to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Retain more of your patients to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Add more value to differentiate you from your competitors to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Offer Ongoing staff training to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Increase the conversion rates of callers to appointments and consultations to paid procedures to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Increase your patientβs transaction value to prepare your practice to survive and thrive
Increase their frequency of visits and then when you have these fundamentals down to prepare your practice to survive and thrive,
Now you Increase your leads/traffic because you are on your game and firing on all cylinders to prepare your practice to survive and thrive.
But most surgeons have this backwards.
They focus only on the bottom rung to increase leads, skip the leverage parts so they and their staff work a lot harder than necessary for less results.
The goal is to create a system to scale your practice by 10Xβing the value of your non-surgical patients so if they are typically worth $1K to you, they are soon worth $10K to you because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, and share you on social media with their followers.
So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues.
This scalable system needs to be a creative solution that eliminates discounting, advertising and hiring more staff.
This will ensure you operate more profitably so you keep more of the revenues you bring in.
And this system needs to be on autopilot so you and your staff can focus on the patient experience.
And this system needs to be unique to anything else out there because it changes the conversation.
Hereβs what I meanβ¦
Most practices donβt realize how insanely difficult it is to get a complete stranger to buy something from them, so they fall back on price, as in discounting their services.
That message attracts price-shoppers but then youβre frustrated that youβre being nickel and dimed to death.
All of this discounting hurts your profits and your image and itβs a race to the bottom because you canβt compete if youβre barely covering your overhead.
Itβs also not a fun way to run your practice.
So, with the creative system Iβm proposing, you change the conversation from discounting to collecting KiSSes for free services to prepare your practice to survive and thrive.
This makes it more fun for your patients to collect KiSSes to win something.
And, the most effective word in advertising has been and will always be FREE, so we use it strategically.
So now your patients have fun collecting kisses and you keep way more of your profits and revenues.
Thatβs how you scale a cosmetic practice you enjoy going to and are proud of.
I want to introduce you to the KiSS Loyalty club where your patients get KiSSes towards Free Cosmetic Services, rather than discounts so you keep more profits AND we do all the marketing for you so you donβt have to hire more staff.
Its sole purpose is to grow your revenues by encouraging your patients to return, refer, review, approve their before/after photos, shoot a video testimonial, share you on social media and complete a surgical procedure is optional.
If that sounds interesting to you, please check out the details at KissLoyaltyClub.com and letβs see if youβre a good candidate for The Kiss Loyalty Club.
Youβll go through a quick, 1-minute assessment and then weβll talk.
And, if you do that before 4th of July, I have a killer offer going on where you save up to $17,997 and get lots of free bonuses so go now to KissLoyaltyClub.com and I hope to talk to you soon.
P.S. Please review!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
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#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #catherinemaley #catherinemaleymba
#cosmeticpracticesurvival #cosmeticpracticepatients #morepatients #kissloyaltyclub
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and selling but staying in your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Selling but Staying in Your Practice β with Andrew Kaufman, MD".
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview with Dr. Andrew Kaufman, a board-certified dermatologist specializing in Mohs, dermatologic and cosmetic surgery in Thousand Oaks, CA for over 28 years.
He built a nice size practice with several doctors under him plus 40 staff and a lot of accounts receivable.
And, like others who have put decades into building their practices, he was searching for an exit plan that made financial and emotional sense to him.
Dr. Kaufman recently sold his practice to a big private equity derm group known as Forefront Dermatology so we talked about the specifics of that transaction.
We discussed:
- Why he was ready to sell
- What made his practice attractive to buy
- How his associates and staff reacted
- What itβs like to sell yet stay in the practice as an employee
He offered great advice on how to set yourself up to sell, how much time it takes to prepare and who to get help from to negotiate the best scenario for you.
Visit Dr. Kaufmanβs website P.S. Please review!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Selling but Staying in Your Practice Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and selling but staying in your practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is a little different.
It's Dr. Andrew Kaufman. Now, he's a board- certified dermatologist specializing in Mohs dermatologic and cosmetic surgery in Thousand Oaks, California, and he has been practicing for over 28 years. Heβs also very knowledgeable on the topic of selling but staying in your practice.
Now, dr. Kaufman is a recognized expert in Mohs and reconstructive surgery and author of numerous publications on facial reconstruction following skincare surgery, skin cancer surgery, as well as a frequently invited speaker at national and international meetings.
Now, I wanted to talk to him because he recently sold his practice, and we've been talking about that a lot lately. Like, how do you walk away from a practice? So, I wanted to get his take on it because his practice is now known as Forefront Dermatology.
So, we're going to talk about the specifics of that transaction. Dr. Kaufman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Thanks, Catherine. It's good to be with you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much. So, let, why don't you just start by describing your practice before you sold it or partnered, or whatever you want to call it. What was your practice consisting of? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, my practice is primarily in Thousand Oaks in Santa Barbara and I had moved to that area about 28, 29 years ago. After I'd completed a moose Fellowship at UC San Francisco and joined a general medical dermatologist, I knew pretty well that I, I would do well in the area because there weren't many, there weren't any moose surgeons at the time in the area and, I had done residencies in dermatology down there and residency in internal medicine.
So, I knew primary care physicians and dermatologists, and I knew there was a need for a Mohs surgeon. So, I was able to build up over time. I bought his practice and then we added additional dermatologists over time to the point where there's approximately five or six general medical dermatologists and a facial plastic surgeon who also does.
You know, facelifts, Mohs and rhinoplasties blepharoplasties, whatever's necessary that the other doctors aren't doing. So, that's pretty much what my practice had been before I started considering you know, an exit strategy. And did you have a pathology lab? We didn't have a laboratory. We do have a board-certified dermatopathologist who's read all of our slides since she's been there for the last.
Eight to 10 years probably.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Now, how many staff did you have? So, you had five D, five dermatologists, plus you plus, yeah. Facial plastics. How many staff? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: It's somewhere between 30 and 40, somewhere around there. Probably, maybe a little more.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Who is managing all of this? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, you know, over time there's a number of different administrators or managers that I'd worked with and So, me very good and some not quite as good.
I was fortunate in the latter part of my career as a, as a practice owner that I had a very good one administrator who kind of helped me through the processes that I was going through.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And what was your biggest challenge, would you say? Running solo practice. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, you know, in California it isnβt easy to make a living and stuff.
Things are expensive. HR, you know, human resources. Employees are expensive. Doctors are expensive. Health insurance is expensive, but at the same time, reimbursement from commercial carrier insurances continues to go downward. So, I think the biggest challenge is, is running a business when expenses keep going up, but reimbursement keeps going down.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? So, now it's somehow what got on your radar? Like what did the, this what's it called? Forward dermatology. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Forefront Dermatology.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Forefront Dermatology. How did they get on your radar, and were you even thinking about. Your exit strategy? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, I mean, the whole point was, you know, I've been doing this close to 30 years and I'm the sole, you know practice owner.
So, I kind of had to come up with a, an exit strategy that made sense. I didn't want to develop. You know, an illness or die or get injured or something that was going to seriously impair the practice. And so, I started considering exit strategies and first, the first option would've been, could have been, you know, selling to my associates.
They weren't interested really, you know, part of its kind of a generational thing. Nowadays a lot of people. Aren't really looking, they're not particularly entrepreneurial, and they would rather come in work and go home which is fine. I respect that. But they weren't really interested. And then second option is I looked at also was academic centers like UCLA and USC Cedar Sinai and Stanford to see if they had any interest in having a satellite you know, dermatology office and ambulatory surgery center.
In Thousand Oaks in Santa Barbara. And there really wasn't, you know, although in the past they, there had been some interest with some dermatology and other practices. Right now, they're not really interested in buying private practices. And after that, then I started looking at private equity-based groups primarily.
And you know, there's a, a few that are in California and then there's a few more that are, that want to come to California. So, you know, we went through a, a number of different groups and kind of vetted them to see what was going to be the best fit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But how would you know, like, do you, this is so, new for you. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
How did you know what you were looking for? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, there's certain things, you know, that I wanted in the deal that, you know, were important to me, and there was, and it varies between the different groups as to who's willing to do what. And there's also, you know, there's a difference between the groups.
You know, you, you know, when you meet people there's a difference between people who are running the group and whether you, you feel that that's going to be a good fit for you. To me it was important that things were ran as smoothly as possible after the close of the deal, as it had before the deal.
So, spent a lot of time trying to get to know the people and. And kind of like what their thought process was and how things would've worked out. I wanted things to be similar for not just myself, but the other doctors and my staff and my patients. So, that was kind of important to me. And, you know, other, other factors were also important to me.
And, you know, for example, things like you know, whether or not stock was available, they felt if I was going to help their company grow, I wanted. To benefit from that to some degree. I wanted to have my cash up, you know, at the time of close. I didn't want to have 20% of it or whatever dangled out there for several years for somebody else to decide whether or not I get it.
And things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really interesting point because we've been talking a lot about private equity. You didn't go with private equity; you went with a physician based led. What is it? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, no, it is. It is a private equity group. Generally, all of the private equity groups have a physician board and physician president.
Because in order to practice of medicine, they have to have a physician as their leader. But it's a business. And when I talk to people about it, I try to make it clear that This, this is, these people are, it's a company, it's a, and they want to, they want to get a return on their investment.
Mm-hmm. They want to get the best deal that they can. And so, you know, I think that best thing a person can do is make sure that you have a good accountant and a good attorney, both of which are well versed and well experienced in mergers and acquisitions, especially in healthcare. Because you want people on your team that have done this a lot before and know what's right and what isn't right, what all the tricks are, and what's the proper thing, so, that you're well represented.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really good pearl. Not just legal, but somebody who really specializes in m and a for healthcare, right? Like that's pretty specific. And is there a reason you went with such a big group? Do you, does that feel more, I don't know certain, when you, I mean, that's a really big group that you went with. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Did, did that make you feel more secure that they had more money? That they, because you're saying that you got a pretty good, it sounds like you got a pretty good cash outlay, right? It's from the get go. Because usually there's a lot of dangling on the back end, you know? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, I mean, pretty good is all relative.
So, so, you know, it's, like I said, it wasn't the, the main, my main interest was to set something up for an exit strategy. Mm-hmm. So, that my, my, I would be safe, my patients would be safe, my staff would have jobs and stuff like that. We wouldn't have to worry about stuff. So, the number one thing was I wanted to be certain that things were going to be stable.
So, yeah, I guess having a. A larger group associated with it. You don't have to worry quite so, much about financial issues. We were really the second group that they had they had purchased in California, so, mm-hmm. They were brand new to the West coast and you know, they're still...they're looking and meeting with other groups now and doing deals with other groups right now.
But the main thing was that, you know, I wanted what I considered to be a fair price for my practice. And I wanted some of those other things I talked about, and I wanted to feel like things were going to be as close to where it was after the deal. As it was before the deal.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly. By the way, what were they looking for? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
But did, did you, do you own your building or was it just a long lease that they liked? Or what were they, why did you look attracted to them? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, you know, the Dermatology's been kind of a target for private equity groups for a number of years now. And they, they like dermatology because they have skin cancer, they have dermatopathology and dermatopathology labs, and then they also have cosmetic.
And they feel that, you know, that's, you know, they can do well, that they can, they can do well in their business model with those things. So, So, I mean they're, you know, we have a pretty, you know, robust, good sized dermatology practice with three different offices. So, that was probably attracted to them.
You know, we, I do a fair amount of MO surgery. We have dermpath, we have people doing cosmetics, so, those are the things probably we're attracted to them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And then were several groups kind of courting you or can you play them off of each other? Was that a strategy? I'm just so, many surgeons or surgeons are looking at this saying, I don't even know who to talk to. How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Like, where do you even begin? Any advice on that? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: I don't want to say you can play off of them, but you can get a, an idea about what each is going to be offering and. Maybe you can get an idea from a couple at the same time. But once you sign an LOI, a letter of intent, you're really just, you're, you're planning to get married to one, so, you can't keep playing that.
So, I'd say you can get an idea from the different groups and then go with one over the other, or two. You can talk to two or three at one time. But I, you know, it gets kind of, Confusing and complicated when you start doing more than that because you know, you're sharing part of your, you know, you have to share your me your business records and everything.
And you want to kind of keep everybody straight so, you can get a pretty good idea. But you can also get an idea early on about whether you want to work with this particular group or whether you feel comfortable, you know, you're going to be communicating with these people afterwards and whether that's going to be a good fit or not.
That'll screen some people out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I check them out online and they say it looks like they take over HR, legal, marketing, scheduling. Do they do all of that or just if you're comfortable doing that, what did they take over for you that you no longer have to settle with? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, ultimately, they take over all of that stuff.
You know, it's their practice. So, and for the most part, you know, again, different groups are different. So, me are going to want to brand your o office. So, me of them don't really care, although they may have like a tagline, bra a branding of it. Right. So, it just kind of depends on the individual, but most of them are going to want things to kind of fit like their other groups.
So, we had not, we did not have electronic health records before we sold. Oh. But within about five months after we did. They're, they're planning, you know, I think they're doing some centralized billing, centralized scheduling, things like that. But we still have some scheduling and little bit of billing and stuff too.
But the, the whole idea is that they, by converting to what they have, is that's they're going to make, do a better on their return on investment.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how long has it been by the way that they've been on board? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Like a year and. Four or five months, something like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. How difficult was the transition Or how easy was it? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: It wasn't bad at all. I mean, honestly, I mean, because again, for me it was kind of an exit strategy. I mean, when you're the sole owner, you know, I make all the decisions and if something needs to get done, then we get it done. So, now decisions have to kind of go through a different type of hierarchy or.
You know, decision tree or something. And that's fine by me because I've given up some, a lot of the headache stuff that I've had to deal with as the, as the owner in the past. So, what, what has what I've given up on is made up for by the things that make my life a little easier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, no regrets of losing control? Because I don't know many surgeons who, who I mean, there's a reason you're in solo practice usually.
You like control, you like to do things your way. Was that a transition for you? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: So, I mean, I'm not solo practice. I'm so, I was a solo loner, but so, not, not particularly difficult. I mean, you know, yeah, it's, it's different but I enjoy kind of being where, in the same seat where my associates have been for all these years, you know, where I come in and take good care of my patients and go home and I don't have to worry about the little things and stuff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how does the agreement work? You, you still need to stay a, a while, correct? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah. You know, basically these companies are buying. A business they don't want, you know, if, if you're a big part of that business, they don't want you disappearing like six months after the deal is done. So, it really varies, you know, group to group and you know, private equity group to private equity group, and it differs from practice to practice.
If I was a solo practitioner by myself and somebody bought me, I would think that they would want me to stick around for a longer period of time because I'm the practice. Mm-hmm. And it'd be harder to replace me and harder for them to get a return on investment. So, it just makes sense for them to, you know, keep people long enough so, that they get their return on investment and it doesn't disrupt things.
So, It really varies, you know, how long the groups will want you to be on. If you're a very large group, then you're maybe not quite as important, but they still want you to be around for a period of time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Can you say how long? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, it really varies. I mean practice to practice and everything. I mean, some of them are three years, some of them are five years, some may be somewhere in between or more or less, I'm not sure, but somewhere around there probably.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Let me ask it this way. Is it more financially good for you to stay put? The longer you stay, the more money you make? Is it like that? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Not necessarily. I mean, you know again, the company wants to get, make their profit, so, I don't have control over overhead like I did before. Quite so, much. You know, they have decisions that they make about doing this or doing that, so, I'd say, you know, as an exit strategy, I think it makes sense.
If you were like brand new and, you know, started working five years ago, when you're thinking that, okay I'm going to sell and then I'm going to work for these people for 20 years, that might be a little bit more of a challenge. But you know and there are sometimes young people that do that, or maybe they sell and then they.
Work, their commitment and then they move outside of the restrictive covenant. But for me it was a good fit as an exit strategy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: If you did want to walk away sooner than planned, can you, like legally, does everything blow up or is there a way out if you wanted it? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: I haven't really evaluated that.
I'm trying to avoid any reason why I would stop, stop working. So, for me it's about, you know, I'll continue working, you know, I have a contract with them, and if after that period of time they want me to stay on and I'm enjoying what I'm doing, then I may stick, stay around, or I may negotiate it another contract and stay around.
But I'm just kind of playing it by ear and seeing how things go. But I mean, if you leave, then. The company has is, is going to make, it'll be more difficult for them to get their return on investment. They've already put money up front, so, they're going to want to get some of that, that money back, I would imagine.
But I'm trying not to find out about that. I guess so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I'm really curious about when you transitioned, how, how did it affect the staff and your other physicians? Was there a change in attitude? Was there a turnover? What happened with everyone? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: All the, all the doctors that were there before are still there, with the exception of one doctor who.
Left, not so, much related to the company, but left a little while after he was kind of a part-time person. Other than that, everybody stayed. My staff, the ones that work around me anyway, are all still there. For the most part. I mean, maybe one person's left. So, it hasn't really changed much.
And when I sold, I wanted to make sure that I was communicating with my referral doctors. About what was going on and that I wasn't leaving and that I was still going to be here, and that things weren't going to change, and if there's any problem to gimme a call or text me or something. So, I wanted to make sure that everything still went as well as possible.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you say like what percentage of your business is referral based? Because now I see what you're saying because I was thinking if you're such a big practice, why would it matter if you left or not? But it's your referral base that they're interested in, is that right? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, well, they're, they're interested in having somebody who brings money, you know, a decent amount of money into the practice to stick around.
So, there's another most surgeon in the practice. Who's been there for about a few years now, and we try to feed him as many of the in-house referrals as possible. I mean, there's still a fair number of patients that want to see me. Mm-hmm. And the vast majority of my practice is referral from outside of the walls of the building and stuff.
So, it's, it's not related as the company's concern wasn't necessarily the referrals from outside, they just want. People that are generating a good income to stick around, whether it's me or whether it's the other most surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, they really like the most part, right? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well yeah, because it's skin cancer and it's you know, it's one of those things that in good economies and not so, good economies, there's still going to be skin cancer.
You know, the downside is you're dependent on insurance commercial carriers, you know, are not paying like what they did 10 or 20 years ago and they have to deal with that. And but yeah, you know, business of skin cancer is, is attractive. Just like the other things like cosmetic and the derm path.
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, Did the facial plastic surgeon stay put or was he just a plastic surgeon? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, no, he's, he, he's facial plastics and yeah, he's still working there at as before and I'm hoping that he'll get busier with you know, the addition of other groups, you know, that this company is going to try to bring on board as well.
So, hopefully he'll get busier with that as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you were also offering a lot of cosmetic nonsurgical treatments. Was that, did that play a part in this? Was that valuable to them? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: I think, yeah. I think all of it comes into play and is in interesting to them. You know, they have, like, as you point out, it's fairly good size company, new to California.
So, they have other groups that do that. Other dermatology groups, I think they do have some other facial plastics people in, in the, in the company too. But more consistently it's a lot of dermatology stuff and the kind of cosmetic things that dermatologists do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what's the best part about this transaction? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: For me, like I said, it's that I get to go home and not worry about the, the crazy little things or worry about payroll or worry about you know, dealing with HR issues, you know, employee issues and, you know, in a state like California, that's, that's not a bad thing to have to give up and stuff.
So, like I said, for me, it's the best part, I guess, is the security, knowing that, you know, I don't have to worry about that stuff or that my family wouldn't have to worry about it
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then what's the worst part about this transaction? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, you know, I don't control everything anymore, so, you know, it's, That's, that's the worst part.
So, it's kind of like, it's, it's, they're both related. Yeah. So, but I'm okay with that. You know, like I said, I've, I've, I've been the person that was in charge of everything for almost 30 years and sound like a good time to you know, hand over the reins to somebody else.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And no regrets? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: No.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Any advice for somebody else thinking about this? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Even if they're you know, usually I work with plastic surgeons, but any advice with that, with, for that?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: You know, kind of is you know, number one would be you know, bet your potential buyers. You know, you want to make sure you understand these people. These are the people that after the deal you're going to be asking for things or talking to them about things.
So, make sure that you can see yourself working with these people. Number two is you know, I guess number two, I think a really important thing is to understand that when you get to the point where you're signing an LOI, a letter of intent, if it's not in the LOI, it's really hard to get it afterwards.
So, let's say you want to have. Your consultation room still all yours for when, when you're there five days a week or whatever, let's say you want to have two, two nurses of similar quality working with you all the time. Let's say that you want whatever the same number of days of vacation or whatever it is, or, you know, make sure it's in the LOI.
And again, you know, a good attorney who's experienced in mergers and acquisitions. Should, should know that and should tell you that. I mean, I learned that from listening to a lecture once in, in a, in a dermatology or dermatologic surgery lecture. And I just think it's a really good advice. So, I think that's important.
You know, think about what you're going to want your practice to be like and make sure that make sure that it's, it's good for you, it's good for your associate positions if you have associates. And it's good for your staff and your patients too. You know, you don't want to sell and then be miserable or have your staff miserable or your patients miserable.
So, make sure that they're going to pay, you know, your staff and your, and, and not going to try to make things more challenging for your patients. Make sure that your doctors can get ahold of you and everything afterwards.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Has your golf game improved since you've transitioned? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: You would've thought you would've thought so.
Maybe when I ultimately retire, re retire, maybe when I ultimately retire, I'll be able to fix that. But right now, I'm basically better at Mohs reconstruction than I am at golf and, okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good to know. And the last question, just out of sheer curiosity, tell us something we don't already know about you.
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Well, I mean, I collect medical, surgical and apothecary.
Antiques.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is that what's behind you? How did this affect your decision on selling but staying in your practice?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: Yeah, that's part of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow, okay. That's unusual. I haven't heard that before
Andrew Kaufman, MD: There you go. So, yeah, so, anything from surgical sets to antique stethoscopes to massages, which are wax models, do books, textbooks related, you know, things like that. Like how far back. I have a pretty good collection, so, you know, I have.
You know, I, I probably don't buy much anymore unless it's like 18th century or something or something really special. Yeah. So, from the 17 hundreds, which is a long time ago, and those things are fewer and far between. But yeah, it's kind of fun and you know, as a physician it's kind of fun to you know, appreciate that, that stuff and appreciate how things have changed in just the last a hundred years or so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, fascinating. Well, thank you so, much. If anybody wanted to talk with you, how would they get ahold of you?
Andrew Kaufman, MD: My best option is probably to, to reach out by telephone, you know, at my office (805) 497-1694. And like I said, best option is "find yourself". Don't necessarily go with your accountant or your attorney.
Find somebody that's going to represent you well and Come up with a good game plan and make sure that you're protected and they're taking good care of you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Excellent advice. Thank you so, much, Dr. Kaufman,
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, thank you so, much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on selling but staying in your practice.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Kaufman, you can reach out to his website at, www.forefrontdermatology.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Kaufman for sharing his experience on the topic of, βselling but staying in your practiceβ.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βSelling but Staying in Your Practice β with Andrew Kaufman, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #catherinemaley #catherinemaleymba
#sellyourcosmeticpractic #cosmeticpracticeprivateequity #privateequityadvice #drandrewkaufman #andrewkaufmanmd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and attracting hair loss patients.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Attracting Hair Loss Patients β with Alan J. Bauman, MD".
Itβs very common for surgeons to want to expand and grow their practices. Actually, itβs human nature to want to progress and thereβs nothing wrong with that.
So, they go to conferences and listen to speakers and vendors talk about the latest technologies and how to use it to grow your practice.
They have great stories and case studies about how this investment offers a new service to attract a new demographic of patients.
A common new service to offer is hair loss technology. It makes sense. You can just look around and see how big a problem it can be for a ton of people.
But what you canβt see is the time, money and effort that goes into marketing this technology to consumers who see their hair loss as a problem and are actually looking for a solution, AND are willing to spend the money to fix their problem.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Alan Bauman who is a full-time hair transplant surgeon in Boca Raton, FL.
Heβs treated over 30K patients and performed over 10K hair transplant surgeries in his 12,000 square foot facility.
We talked about how he manages 30 team members and several profit centers and the various, creative ways he markets to and attracts both men AND women to his hair loss center.
He also had good advice for those surgeons who want to buy a machine to add hair restoration to their cosmetic practice.
Visit Dr. Bauman's website P.S. Please review!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Attracting Hair Loss Patients β with Alan J. Bauman, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and attracting hair loss patients. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant of plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today I have a special guest that's a little different than normal, and it's Dr. Alan Bauman, who's a full-time hair transplant surgeon in Boca Raton, Florida, who is an expert at attracting hair loss patients.
Now, he's treated over 30,000 patients and performed over 10,000 hair transplant surgeries, due to his ability at attracting hair loss patients, to date in his 12,000 square foot facility called Baumann Medical Hair Transplant and Hair Loss Treatment Center. Now, Dr. Bauman's, the author of numerous articles and textbook chapters on the science of Hair transplantation, which is a testament to his ability at attracting hair loss patients, including eyelash transplant surgery, and he's a frequently invited faculty member at scientific meetings, live surgery workshops and major beauty industry events.
Now, interestingly, and we need to talk about this, he was named, top five transformational CEOs and one of the top 10 CEOs transforming healthcare in America by Forbes. How's that?
So, Dr. Bauman's also a founding member of the Bauman Philanthropic Foundation, focusing on assisting active US military veterans to improve mental health, physical health, and preventing PTs D related suicide.
Dr. Baumann, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Catherine, it's great to be here. Thank you so, much for having me today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, we just have to start with how and when did you decide to go all in on hair restoration? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, it's a, it's a great story. Now remember that if you ask my grandmother when I decided to go to medical school, as she would've said when she was alive the day he was born.
So, you know, the story starts pretty early, but I never thought I was going to go into hair transplantation through medical school or even the beginning of my residency training. I always thought plastic surgery was going to be my first love. It was my first love. I first got introduced to surgery.
Through a plastic surgeon in Manhattan who was a close friend of the family. He let me watch procedures and see patients with him. I shadowed him for many, many years off and on, and he really introduced me to the psychiatry with a knife side of medicine, which is really what cosmetic surgery is all about, making people look good and feel great.
I loved the work that he did, the way he handled his patients, the surgical skill. It was all just fantastic. But I didn't really think about hair at all until I met a hair transplant patient. And I didn't know he was a hair transplant patient until I was looking at his medical history. And so, I was doing an intake for a plastic surgeon at that time.
And he was getting some other procedure and this patient had hair transplantation listed on his previous surgical history. And I'm looking at him trying to figure out, Where are the plugs? Because in the mid 1990s, I thought all hair transplants were supposed to be plugin. Like, why would you ever bother with that?
And so, that's kind of what I was expecting and, and obviously his results were far different. And so, it was a brief conversation I had with him. He told me about first of all, he was super excited to learn that I didn't know he had a hair transplant or that I couldn't detect it. And then he was also super excited to tell me about the technology that was used at that time, which was just coming of age, single follicle implantation, follicular unit transplantation to create artistically.
Beautiful, aesthetically pleasing hairlines that looked a hundred percent undetectable and certainly fooled me. And he was excited too, know that. And then the other thing that struck me was really how it changed his life. So, he began to tell me how his whole life turned around socially and professionally.
After he had his hair transplant. So, that kind of started me on my journey you know, which led me basically a globe-trotting and, and practice trotting around the world to different conferences and to different experts in the field the, you know, and everything from reading textbooks to journals and things like that.
And then finally finding a mentor in hair transplantation. And I finally opened up my own practice. Well, obviously I got bit by the hair bug and I did not go through completely with plastic surgery. And I did 100% full-time board-certified hair restoration surgery for the past 25 years. So, in the mid 1990s, I came down to Florida, opened up my practice.
I moved my furniture my wife, we were engaged at the time, and I opened up the practice here in Boca Raton.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how important was location for, for hair restoration? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, I thought I was going to be either a plastic surgeon or maybe even that hair transplant surgeon on the upper East side of Manhattan.
That's just where my mentor was and that seemed like a good spot. He did well. I thought maybe I would be joining his practice and I just always thought that that's where I was going to be. My parents lived in Jersey. I grew up on the East Coast College in California Medical school in New York. That's where I did all of my training, hair transplant training out on Long Island and other places.
And I just thought that New York City was going to be where I was going to be. And I had a business plan. I was ready to, to take action, take a loan, and get it started. And I, I blamed my mother-in-law because I was on vacation with my wife, my fiancΓ© at the time, And we were staying at her mom's place.
She had just recently been remarried and moved to Boca and. Karen's stepfather was a financial planner and he asked me what was I intending to do both in marriage and also in business. And we got to talking about. What was good about South Florida, and I said, well, tell me more about this retirement community.
And he says, well, it's, you know, it's not exactly like that now anymore. And remember this is in the mid 1990s. And so, he challenged me to put a few different numbers from the you know Hypothetical situation into the business plan. And of course, it was the middle of winter and the palm trees were swaying and the ocean breeze was blowing and the sun was shining.
And so, you know, there were a couple of different things that happened in that short vacation. But basically, once I crunched the numbers, I could see that, especially taking a personal loan, a business loan, It would be a lot easier to do it in Boca. And my research included opening the phone book, remember those?
Yeah. And seeing all of the cosmetic procedures and, and surgeons obviously that were being you know, promoted down here in south Florida. I knew it was a vanity capital for sure, so, it wasn't like I would have to, and, and also hair transplant capital was probably the busiest, most competitive. Area per capita in the country for hair transplant surgery.
I mean, there were literally pages and pages and pages in the phone book of hair transplant surgeons. And so, I figured actually that was a good thing, that I didn't have to reinvent the wheel, that people kind of knew what a hair transplant was. I was confident in the technology. I was confident in the in the weather.
And we, we packed the car and moved down six months later.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. So, how do you enter the marketplace? It was, it's a lot different now, but how did you enter it then? Did you go solo right away? Did you buy a building, rent it, go in with someone else? How, what was that like? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah, so, you know, I didn't really know which way was more appropriate or not.
I knew that I really didn't want to be a part of another practice. My dad is a dentist and he always said, you know, you should be autonomous. You should be your own boss. And so, I always thought I would be not with another practice, but, but opening up my own individually. And so, that was my goal.
And I started out with a thousand square foot facility. It was sublease rental space and, you know, restaurant on one side and an ob/gyn upstairs and a hair salon around the corner overlooking the lake in Boca. It was, it's a beautiful location, still is a beautiful location. At the time it was called Wharf Side.
I had zero employees. My wife, who's a, has a degree in marketing but never used it. And the degree. In Education? No, she never used it. Oh, she had a degree in education. She was a teacher professionally. I said, listen, I need your help to answer these phones because I can't afford any, any staff at this time.
So, she would man the phones and I did the consultations and we brought in the teams to do, help me do the procedures when we booked them that first year. And so, I would say that to get the patients going the patient flow was not an easy task, and I didn't really understand before I got into it how hard it was going to be.
You know, I, I had many discussions with my dad who was an entrepreneur and my grandfather also, and my dad said, join the Chamber of Commerce. And I said, well, what do they do inside the chamber? So, eventually I learned that it was obviously networking. And so, I became just, you know, commonly appearing at all different charity events.
I became embedded into the volunteer organizations here in Boca Raton. I became well connected with the business community. I. Early on and you know, I, I didn't have a budget for advertising, so, I had to go literally door to door to explain to people what hair transplant was and, and what I thought I could bring to the table.
And I, I worked with many plastic surgeons locally because the ones that didn't do hair transplants, sometimes they were causing more hair loss. So, I got them out of a lot of trouble and I became a resource for plastic surgeons and dermatologists didn't really know what to do or how to handle hair.
Hair loss patients at that time. So, I became a resource for the prominent dermatology clinics here locally. I became a resource for hair salons, stylists, barbers in the men's side and also in the women's side. They were referring people who were complaining of thinning and shedding and breakage. And I would handle those cases and then return them, obviously back to the salon or the barbershop with a heck of a lot more hair.
And so, the practice built slowly but surely. I guess I would say I'm always been kind of a, a puzzle. Puzzle person. You know, I like solving problems, so, trying to solve the problems of, of, you know, gaining more patients at the time, you know, attract, educating and attracting patients to the practice who were good candidates for our procedures and treatments.
I was lucky that the local large clinics were doing infomercial radio or infomercial and radio advertising, like nonstop, so, people knew that hair loss and hair restoration was a thing. I just had to prove how different it was. And my skillset. Wow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how much patience did you have to have? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Like how many years did it take for you to get to the point where you were comfortable with what you were doing? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, comfortable well, I was already comfortable obviously with the technology that I had. My two hands, no financial, not open up the practice, but yeah, so, financially we broke even in less than five years.
So, I had the loan paid back. We expanded from a thousand square feet to 3000 square feet. I was able to go from one operatory to two operatories. I built the second one, and then my team expanded from a part-time team to a full-time team. And then we expanded to 5,000 square feet in the in that same subleased space.
And this was prior to the, to the market crash of 2008. And I just knew right around that time. Maybe it was just the way I was being treated by the landlord. Maybe it was just the, you know, the market and such. But what I realized was that I was paying a heck of a lot of rent. Yeah. I was dealing with a lot of problems with the parking.
I was dealing with crazy things. Like they put a pill mill into the center where I was located, which was crazy. And I just felt like out of control, like it wasn't under my control. And I said, you know what? Maybe this is a sign that I need to look for my own space. And so, I took that opportunity. To start saving for essentially what would be the down payment for a building.
And it took me a couple of years to save that you know, actually many years to save it up. I knew I had the, the cash flow to support the mortgage payments. I. And I went shopping. So, it took a couple of years. I found a beautiful building that we're in right now. Not without some trauma and some difficulty, but you know, and that's probably a whole another story for a whole another podcast of how I got my education in real estate.
Right. But let's just, let's just say it was not a simple process to. Acquire the building to refurb the building and then to get the approvals from the city to allow me to use the building for medical use, even though it was zoned for business. So, I got a legal education. I got a political education.
I got a real estate education all on the side. As a part-time gig in addition to running a full-time hair transplant practice. Yeah. What? But here we are today. So, 12,000 square feet facility. I have five fully operational ORs. Some of those ORs are used for regenerative treatments and procedures.
I have three providers. It's myself plus, Another hair transplant surgeon, plastic surgeon, who's been around for 30 years. I have a nurse practitioner. We've just added another nurse practitioner who'll be joining us within the next couple of weeks, and I've expanded the practice to include not only hair loss and hair restoration, but also scalp health.
So, I have an entire department and a certified psychologist specifically for scalp health. We have a head spott, a triology lab. We also do cranial prosthetic devices for those who are not candidates for hair transplants. As I mentioned, a lot of regenerative treatments like P r P and other therapies like exosome treatments, PDO grow, and stem cell type therapies for hair loss has been a part of the practice for many, many years.
And you mentioned in the intro, eyelash eyebrow transplants, scar coverage. The pro bono work that we do with Grey Team and such has been you know, some of the shining stars of, of what's been done as well as innovate. The technology, like minimally invasive hair transplants which is exclusively, exclusively what we do today in the practice.
We don't do any linear or strip harvesting whatsoever. It's all f u e and we dovetail that with a functional medicine analysis, a holistic approach to hair loss. 50% of the patients are women, 50% of the patients are men. Not every woman is a good candidate for hair transplants, obviously, but we do have other pathways for them to grow thicker, stronger, healthier hair, and you know, being able to tap into even longevity.
An aesthetics is something that we are doing now. So, I have a full-time aesthetician who does some body contouring treatments, skin tightening treatments, laser hit removal, and the, and the like. And that's been extremely successful for us just with the in, in-house patients that we are treating.
And the, and you know, the functional medicine part of the practice, you know, in longevity is also you know, coming up to speed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Who's managing all of this? Because you, I mean, not only did you get legal and real estate experience, but now you have to get leadership experience. How are, how, gimme some tips about like how you're hiring, how you're managing, how you're keeping everyone motivated. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
You have a lot of pieces, you know, talk about a puzzle. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah. You got a lot of pieces there. So, Mo Yeah. M moving from a 5,000 square foot office space to a 12,000 square foot building was definitely a challenge for us initially in terms of communication. Making sure that the administrative side was communicating well with the surgical side and patient flow was not being interrupted or bottlenecked in any of the specific departments.
It just, traffic control was literally a, a, a problem in the, in the office with being so, separated. I mean, I went. 3000 square feet, 5,000 square feet, I could hear the patient entering the front door and I could hear from most of the places except the, or what the conversations were. So, I kind of already knew what was happening without having to have any kind of additional electronic communication.
So, when you have a 12,000 square foot office, one of the first things we had to do is get headsets, which, you know, we didn't even think about until we moved into the building. We're like, oh my God, we need like traffic control. And so, you know, today it's like, of course we do. But so, I a couple of years back I hired a COO, a Chief Operating Officer, and he worked you know, I guess it was, he was a full-time for several years and he was a well-established kind of coo o for hire.
And he was referred by a number of people here locally through my connections in the business world, specifically in, in the world of healthcare. He did a couple of turnaround projects and he was just a, a seasoned. Professional in the world of business. And so, that was really, really helpful to have him on hand to kind of help get us organized.
And what we did at that moment is we elevated. Leaders in each of the different categories and, and I would say departments, if you will, in the practice into a core leadership team or a leadership team that could meet on a regular basis and help manage and communicate with each other about the problems and work on solutions.
So, it didn't always, so, it wouldn't fall on my shoulders. To deal with HR, to deal with the scheduling, to deal with surgical, to deal with the patient flow. And that was one of the main things that we changed. Pretty quickly. With the COO, he's, no, actually, he's, he's passed away since he's no longer with the practice.
He retired back to his hometown and then, and passed away. He had a, a chronic disease, but the point is, is that it was a, a critical step to have someone, and he was certainly a coach to me. He was a like I said, had a lot of experience in the world of business and so. I didn't know that I needed it at the time, but it was super helpful and he organized so, many different things that are still in process today.
Maybe evolved, but, but, but certainly initiated a lot of those programs and procedures that we have.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you replace him with another COO? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: I didn't the leadership, the leadership team is managing things in a, in a, in an expeditious fashion right now. So, I'm very happy with the way the leadership team works.
We're very transparent in those meetings. My director of finance presents all of the data and financials to the team, and they report on each of their departments on every, you know, problems from logistics to budget, to Physical facility and things like that. And we're actually going to be starting another phase of construction again, I swore I would never do it after the original one.
But you know, we're going to, we're going to reconfigure some of our spaces to accommodate more patient care areas. And those other, some of those other departments are expanding that I had previously mentioned, like the aesthetics and the salon trichology department and our functional medicine department.
So, each of them needs a little bit more space.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord. So, what are your plans to grow? Because I'm hearing aesthetic, but it's a completely different animal than the hair restoration. So, how are you, how are you going to manage all that? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, my, my aesthetician is also a very, a seasoned veteran in the in the sphere.
So, you know, I mean, she's gotten busier. Certainly. We're not looking to be all things to all people, but certainly patients who come to us for hair restoration understand our patient-centered point of view. And our focus on results and the latest technology and patient comfort and safety. So, that kind of encapsulates what it means to be at the Baumann Medical Facility.
And if I, you know, a patient comes in and says, oh, Yeah. Well, hey Doc, do you know somebody to help me out here? I need a little, you know, maybe some tightening in my Turkey neck. You know, we'll, hey, go talk to Blanca, my aesthetician and see if there's something that we can do with RF micro needling or some other treatments that she might have under her belt.
And if not, we'll refer you on. But let's see if we can do something less invasive. Gotcha. Even though I, I have an associate who's a plastic surgeon, he's not going to be doing any plastic surgery work here. You know, maybe short of Botox or injectables, things like that if we do that. But probably nothing more than that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there a plan to add more services because you had 12,000 square feet. I can't imagine how many people you need to fill that thing up and the revenues you need to make all that work. Are you thinking about other profit centers? I, it sounds like you are, you have a lot of different profit centers, right? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Is the point to take that hair restoration patient and introduce more services to them or try new markets? Like what's your strategy there? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: No, I think I just, what, what I've found over the years, like for example, treating many women who are dealing with hair loss, for example perimenopausal post-menopausally or other hormone imbalance while they're of childbearing age, you know, we've come across a lot of endocrine abnormalities and a lot of issues really in terms of lifestyle.
So, it's nice to be able to have someone to refer to for that. And it's also nice to have a little bit of that in-house. And so, my nurse practitioner has handled a lot of that here in the office. She handles a lot of our female patients who are dealing with some of those issues and bringing on another nurse practitioner who's specifically trained.
In endocrinology and functional medicine, I think we'll be able to handle that. So, it's, it's kind of like, we're not really like looking to break new ground. I'm just looking, you know, these are things that are happening, we just can't even ignore. You know, patients come in, for example, with a side effect from monoxide.
They have a little bit of extra, you know, a little bit extra hair here or there. Most guys are tuning up their hair for their scalp, but they may need a little bit of hair removal on their neck or their shoulders. And so, it's natural as they're putting on their. Gallon for the procedure. Hey, you know, did you ever think about doing some laser hair removal in that area?
Or are women who are having maybe a side effect from the treatments that are growing amazing hair on their scalp and they have a little bit of extra hair, you know, in the sideburn area, you know, or on their arm or they're already been doing laser hair removal and having that in the practice. They know they're going to get that in the Bauman way.
You know, all the things that we said, you know, in the core philosophies of how we do things. And so, they feel very comfortable with us and the team. You know, we have a very cohesive team at the practice and you know, and that's one of the things that makes some of these 11-hour days go so, fast is that the team is amazing.
And I wouldn't be able to do what I do without the team. I mean, I had 30 team members, so, it's, it's just an amazing family that we have right now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, dear Lord, that that's a lot of people. What, so, let's, what's up with the Forbes calling you the, one of the top 10 CEOs in that are going to transform the healthcare industry in America? What's that all about? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: So, that's a great question. You know, why would they give me that designation? Yeah. I became a trans, I became in their radar as a transformative c e o because what I was doing was different than what had come before. You know, they're looking for business leaders, just like, you know, when I was awarded a small business leader the year from Book Raton Chamber of Commerce no physician or surgeon had ever won that award previously.
In the history of Boca Raton Chamber of Commerce. And so, I was proud to receive that award and still proud to be acknowledged by Forbes because you know, you, you never think that going to medical school and getting an MD that you're going to be featured in Forbes Magazine. So, certainly my mom was pretty happy about that.
Hi mom. But so, what I was doing, I think, and you can read it in the articles, certainly up there online was something that was a little bit different and out of the box. And so, when they're talking about transforming industries or trans transforming, I, I always thought about it as transforming patients, right?
Because what we are doing at Baler Medical when we restore someone's hair is we're transforming their life. Because if you have hair loss you know, a, a bad hair day turns into a bad hair, weak or bad hair year or bad hair life. And so, when you restore someone's head of hair, they look great and they feel great.
And they're eternally grateful for that as long as it's done properly and you're helping them maintain the look. So, being transformative according to Forbes has a lot of different meanings, and so, I was a top five transformative c e o because I was transforming patients, I was also transforming the industry.
A lot of the technologies that I brought to our patients were things that the traditional hair transplant surgeon may not have thought of when they were undergoing their training or even in their days of practice. For example, I brought red light therapy, low level laser light therapy photo biomodulation devices, even though they weren't called that at the time into the practice in 1999.
And my patient results from laser light therapy were the first results ever presented. The first "before and afters" ever presented on laser light therapy at the International Society of Hair Surgery. And so, bringing technology like that today, it's common knowledge that the meta-analysis of the double-blind randomly clinical trials for red light therapy and hair growth, you know, it's kind of signed and sealed and if you don't believe it, it just means you didn't read the papers or haven't seen them, you know, because you've been in your silo.
But red-light therapy has a powerful effect on skin anti-inflammatory, pro healing, pro hair growth, of course. So, we've known that for decades now in the practice, but many surgeons blew it off. They thought, how could red light do anything? We didn't learn about that in medical school. And I'll be the first to tell you, neither did I, but I knew about the physics and I did the research, meaning I dug into the technologies and I got the in contact with the Russian researchers who did the, did the research and I was able to have their research translated into English and I read it and I understood how biochemically this worked.
And I spoke to the people who were getting results. And the rest is history on that. And obviously, you know, today you can go on Amazon and get a red-light device for hair growth. All of the devices that we use in the practice are medical grade ones, but there's other things that we've transformed the industry as well, like how we take care of patients after their procedure with postoperative washes.
You know, thousands of patients go to Turkey every single day for a hair transplant, and then they're home on the plane bleeding in their bandages. Well, that's not something that we're proud of in the industry. Most of those clinics are not run by physicians or surgeons. They're run by, you know, folks that were, you know, planting rice just you know, a couple of months ago.
So, at the practice we take people from the start of their procedure all the way through their healing phase. So, we get them healed in less time than ever before. It's 50% of the time, it used to be 10 or 15 years ago, they're basically completely healed four or five days out from their procedure. So, we're transforming the way that the technology is being used.
We've transformed the way that Harris harvested. We're not using linear harvesting anymore. As I mentioned before, all minimally invasive hair transplant surgery. And yes, we've used robotic instrumentation and other instruments in the newest, latest, and greatest handheld mechanical devices to do that.
Harvesting the latest and greatest instruments to make tiny incisions in the scalp. To implant. The hair follicles are not made with steel. They're made with sapphire glass today. So, you know, these are all things that we've added as well as cell therapy, regenerative medicine, exosome therapy and quickly we'll have micro-RNA and mRNA and, and, and slow interfering RNA to help with hair regrowth as well.
All of that technology is coming of age and we plan to use it and improve it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay, so, you are on top of this hair situation and what, like, what's the stat for baldness, male baldness? Like how, what's the stat? Because it's really good right? For your, for you. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: So, I mean, what they'd say is that there's probably 80 million Americans out there who are struggling with hair loss.
50, 50 million men and 30 million women. I think it's probably undercounted. Those are statistics from the American Hair Loss Association. But, and there's many, many others that have hair thinning or other scalp issues, right? And that's why, you know, we have scalp treatments in the office and things like that.
I have an entire department to keep scalp health on point, but 20% of men in their twenties, 30% of men in their thirties, 40% of men in their forties, 50% of men in their fifties are going to have some visible signs of hair loss. And by the time you're age 65, 80% of all people are going to have hair loss and you're going to have it at some point in your life.
In most cases at war, some kind of scalp health issue. So, the, I think if you're looking at the marketplace, it's huge. And if you believe any of the, the market analyses that you see on Google, I don't know if you can or not, but they all show, you know, a very, very huge increase in the average rate of return and of, of course on the on the growth rates in those, in those categories not just here in the United States, but also globally, you know, and they, and some of the estimates are between 18 and 24% C A G R.
So, It's a, it's an exploding industry. It's exciting to be in the field at this time. Of course, we're in the post pandemic zoom and boom era, so, everybody who's working from the neck up is busier now than they ever were. And it's just a weird thing that now everybody's looking at themselves on their phone or on their TV screen or on their computer screen and are seeing themselves in the mirror, whereas most guys probably, you know, got dressed in the dark, combed their hair and went out the door, you know now they're seeing themselves live and in person on a screen.
Maybe they may not be so, happy about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that leads us into marketing and the competition because you do have a huge demand. But when there's a huge demand here comes the supply. So, a lot of people jump in to take advantage of that. So, what's your marketing strategy? How are you, how are you differentiating yourself from everyone else? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah. So, in the early days, you know, 25 years ago the marketing strategy was based on a $0 budget. And so, I, I couldn't do much, you know, And so, I had to leverage time and the dollars that I had to get exposure to the practice I to educate patients about what we were doing and how we were doing it.
And that's why I pounded the pavement because I basically, you know, couldn't pay for a, a magazine ad at the time, which w you know, I. Eventually we did it. But I would say that the best advertising for my pa, for my practice are my patients. Because most of our patients today come from word of mouth.
They don't come in from some, you know, clever marketing campaign or some ad campaign. We do like to keep our name out there. I'm excited about what we do. I write. Two to three emails a week to my patient base. I have, you know, a database of, you know, 30 to 50,000 patients that re and others that receive my emails as well as all of our certified hair coaches that we've trained over time.
And you know I've worked very closely with the media to get the word out. I felt that that was a force a force multiplier, if you will. So, you know as you read in the bio, I've been featured on hundreds and hundreds of news stories hundreds and hundreds over the years. Every major morning news show live on the air I've been on Dateline NBC, I've been featured in Men's Health Magazine when it was actually a magazine.
Maxim obviously, and things like that. The local news has been great be why do they come to me asking what's new? It's because I'm known for knowing what's new and I'm known through my patients and the word of mouth that we get excellent, exceptional results and we do it with great care and great quality but also great compassion.
And I think that's been the key, but certainly we, you know, we have our fingertips in social media. You know, I always think we could be doing better there. You know, I'm not so, consistent on my own. Instagram accounts. I have a I have a, a coordinator, a communications coordinator in-house full-time obviously.
And also, we have a new social media coordinator. So, that's, she's very new in the practice, but, so, I think that we're going to kind of be getting that up to speed a little bit more consistently. But You know, just about, just about everything that you can think of. You know, we have something there. I even do cable TV ads, to be honest.
And I thought I would never, ever do a cable TV ad because I was born and raised on the Bosley infomercials and I always thought, oh, that'll never be me. It's not a neighborhood.
Catherine Maley, MBA: When I first got into this industry 23 years ago, I lived in San Francisco right off of Union Street and Bosley was there and I thought, and he had the hair plugs and I thought, I don't think those looks very good. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
And it's, it's amazing how much this industry has changed. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Oh yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you know what I mean? I, you, you surprised me by saying word of mouth because I mean, I just, my, my belief is men don't talk about it. And obviously I'm wrong. Then they must be talking about it because I've always thought it's a tough, that's a tough one and done kind of guy. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
You know? My belief is, and apparently, it's wrong. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: But what, what do you think? Yeah, I've got, I've got one sentence for that. And that's not 1999 anymore. These guys are not a hundred percent public about it, but they will share with their friends and their family a lot more than they ever did. So, I think it's a lot easier now to talk about it and I, I have a patient today who is finishing off his procedure.
We had a small little bit of work extra to do this morning, so, it was a short day for him and he was, he says he has a big business meeting in a week and I assured him that he's going to be clean and ready for that. He'll be able to get a haircut right before, and he says, well, do I need to wear a hat?
During the next couple of days, I said, well, if you don't want anybody to know, of course you're going to have to wear a hat. And especially if you're outside in the sun. And he says, well, no, I don't care. I said, well, what do you mean? He's like, well, I, I'm, I don't care if anybody knows, I'm going to tell everybody.
Wow. And so, I hear that more often now than I ever did before. And I don't know if it's just because there's such a plethora of information out there on social media or that it's just okay to talk about hair loss now and. You know, back in the early days, that was the whole point of getting out there on the TV news and you know, and the radio shows and, and now even the podcasts telling guys, Hey, this is okay.
You can, you can, like, we can talk about this. I mean, you know, women have all kinds of makeup and camouflage to fix themselves, to make them look different. What do we have? We don't have anything, you know, we got to wake up and come to work. And so, hair is an important bit of business and but let's talk about that.
And so, I think, you know, I can't say, I can't say I take responsibility or credit for that, but certainly it was in my goal back in 1999 when I was thinking about these you know, the shows and, and what to say and what to do on the air and, and the interviews and even in front of my patients, you know, and, and lectures and seminars that I've given, like, Hey, look, let's, you know, this is, this is really not taboo.
Let's talk about hair loss and hair restoration, and. You know, I mean, that's just the way that it is. So, there's been a lot of really nice changes in that regard. So, a lot of men are talking to their stylist about it. They're talking to their barber about it. And women as well, of course, have always shared the secrets of beauty with each other.
So, I think that's why we had so, many women in the practice in the early stages of, of the. Of the process, not just that we had good results with them, with our medical therapies but that we were careful and compassionate with them and got them to good results, you know, without maybe having to do too much surgery.
And they told a lot of friends and so, it's always been like kind of a 50 50 thing, but I think, yeah, word of mouth. Absolutely. And today, 25 years in our patients are sending in their 20-year-old you know, sons and daughters.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's the marketing message? Because I, in the old days, they used to talk about it was always like the red four show with the gorgeous blonde that you're going to get when you get hair. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
You know, it was all about sex appeal. What do men really want? Why are they doing this? Do you know? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, for sure the sex appeal is a big portion of it. Many of our men are coming in maybe recently divorced or they're, you know, in a new chapter of their life. I was on a virtual call.
About 50% of my patients come in virtually, meaning I see them on Zoom before they physically come into the office for a surgical or regenerative procedure. So, yes, definitely a change in life status certainly is a trigger. You know, just around the same time that they're buying their red Corvette maybe they're thinking about their hair.
If they're reentering you know, the wild, so, to speak, and getting out there on a Friday night. But, you know, most guys today, I think that they just want their profile picture to look different because, you know, they're not going out to the bar. It's, it's a totally different world from what I've heard.
I don't know. But that's just what they tell me. They want to look good and feel good about it. And so, it's, it's a lot more about self-confidence. And that confidence is what's sexy if you think about it. Right? Because if you did something, whether it's, you know, Working out at the gym, you lost that extra 10 pounds.
You know, you even get that nice new haircut or a little bit more color back into your hair with a rinse. You know, you, you're just walking on like another inch taller at that moment. And that's what hair does for guys. They just look good and feel great. I know I feel great after a haircut. I feel like I'm walking on air.
So, you know, having not to struggle with your hair I think is a big thing that a lot of these guys say. But yes, also professionally, so, I was talking to someone yesterday on a virtual consultation who mentioned that he was in a technology field and he's in the boardroom physically now in the boardroom with a lot of guys who are.
Age wise, a lot younger. And you know, he doesn't want to look like that aging guy. He doesn't want to look like the guy who's the oldest guy in the room, you know, because in the world of tech whether it's biotech, FinTech, whatever you want to call it, You know, you don't want to be like the next guy on the, on the plank, you know, jumping off into the, into the sharks.
You know, you don't want to look like that guy and you don't want to be that guy. And even though your, maybe your ideas are worthwhile, you want to make sure you have the confidence and the skillset to exude that youthful vigor. And honestly, that's, that's a big part of it as well. Guys want to look the part.
Catherine Maley, MBA: A lot of surgeons that I know. We're talked into or wanted the laser, and I won't say which one, but it, you know, hair restoration laser. And they're told, oh, this is going to sell itself. The marketplace is huge. You're, this is going to be fantastic. And what happens is it's a completely new market for them. They're used to the cosmetic female patient who shares and they understand them better. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
And now they're opening up a whole new market. And I say to them, Just please have a marketing plan because they're not just going to show up. Some of them will come because their wives want them to come. But otherwise, I think it takes mass advertising efforts to find that group who now has to come to your practice and it, but it's a female practice and now they're uncomfortable. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Its kind of thing. Like what would be your advice for somebody who wants to get into this kind of as a hobby or as just another profit center in their typical cosmetic plastic surgery practice? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Right. So, if you're in the world of cosmetic procedures and treatments whether you run Medi spas or whether you're a plastic surgeon doing procedures on women or men, it may seem super attractive to work into the field of hair restoration.
It may seem super attractive to you to work into the field of erectile dysfunction, but of course you can imagine more easily how many barriers to entry. Erectile dysfunction might be you know, if you're running a cosmetic practice for women and now you have to switch gears and talk about that bit of business.
Hair is very much the same in those ways. You know, if you, if you have been sold a bill of goods by a laser manufacturer, for example, or even a robotic hair transplant device manufacturer, you know, you have to be very careful because hair restoration, there is a lot of nuances. And this is not something you can just run and jump and add on, like a bolt on thing on your practice, you know, like an extra horn on your car and you're off and running.
This requires some effort and energy and, and just like you said, many practices are just simply not geared up for that. So. I would encourage you to at least take some kind of class and we, we offer hair coach classes. And hair coach classes could be tailored to the beauty industry. They could be tailored to estheticians; they could be tailored to Medi spas.
They could be tailored to surgeons. People who have been in practice for 30 years doing one thing are now taking hair coach classes because they want to learn how to add, for example, P r p that works into their practice for hair growth and what they've tried hasn't worked. You know, so, I think that taking a class like that and we offer that, like even just the Bauman p r p class and you know, Bauman PRP class.com is where people go to get information on that.
But, you know, we, we run those classes more routinely prior to the pandemic. Now we're running, coming up to speed again. But that gives someone who's thinking about hair an introduction. To hair loss, hair restoration. What to say, what to do. I mean, I'm just boggled by how many people will do P R P treatments on a patient that they've never gotten a complete diagnosis on and even and without a diagnosis, and then also never measured their hair.
Much less photographed it, forget about it, but measured their hair. Like how can you put somebody on a weight loss program without like weighing them? You would never put somebody on a blood pressure medication without taking their blood pressure. How would you put them on a hair growth treatment?
Something that takes, could be a year to see the results in the mirror that they have to be compliant with without measuring a baseline. Or at least coming up with an adequate diagnosis. So, these are things that still boggle my mind. I'm not going to say that it's simple and easy to add it onto the practice, but my team and I had a lot of success with physicians who are looking to add hair restoration treatments and procedures.
And in fact, we are developing. Payer restoration treatment and procedure protocols for a very, very large medical group in the country. And unfortunately, I can't tell you due to a non-disclosure at this moment, who that group is, but they have six thou close to 6,000 physicians. Once we get the training program up and running, there will be 6,000 physicians in that, in that practice.
And they're going to learn exactly what to say and what to do, what tools to have on hand to help men and women who are struggling with hair loss. And so, it's not about the, the device or the gimmick or this p r p or the centrifuge. You have to take a more holistic approach and then figure out what works for you.
What works in your practice and what you can and cannot do, because if you're doing breast dogs and blepharoplasties and facelifts, things like that, you're probably not going to be able to do a 20-man hour hair transplant in your practice. At least not right off the bat. So, you better be prepared to have connections and contacts either locally or distant distantly, whether it's me or another board-certified hair restoration physician who can help you out with some tougher cases.
You know, the neurologist refers, you know, it can take care of the headaches, but if you need neuro, if you need neurosurgery, you got to go to the neurosurgeon. If you need a brain surgery, you know, That's just the way that it is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it sounds like you're pretty entrepreneurial. Is that, like, would you, do you like the business and the marketing side a lot, like enough to step away from working in your practice? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
It sounds like you like to work on your practice. What are your feelings about that or where are you heading with this? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Well, I'm one of, probably one of the busiest two-handed surgeons in the country because I do over 250, almost 300 cases a year. I operate every day, five days a week one to three cases depending on the size and the scope of the case.
Have I worked on the practice? Well, yeah. I've always worked on the practice because if you don't work on the practice, then you don't have a practice and you learn that very quickly. I don't see myself stepping away from surgery ever. I love surgery. I, I guess I was an entrepreneur because I went off the beaten path.
I did something that, you know, no one told me to be, you know, maybe you should consider going in with someone and building a, a patient base or something before you start your own practice. I mean, I, I didn't think of that, you know, I was just naive and, but luckily, I had the fortitude to, to push through all of those you know barriers and stumbling blocks, right?
And but I'm a problem solver and I like to solve problems not just in the business but also surgically and also with products and devices that we've innovated. I have my own product line, so, I guess that's entrepreneurial. But I developed my products because I didn't like what was out there on the market.
I didn't, I didn't want to take them myself, and so, I sought out appropriate ingredients. I sought out the right mixtures, the right balance for hair loss, for men, for women. I sought out things that were needed during the pandemic. I sought out an immune booster because we treated over a thousand covid related hair loss patients.
And then don't get me started on mRNA vaccinations. You know, it's a big problem out there and it's still going on. Thankfully you know, it's, it's waning. But the amount of hair follicle dysregulation and autoimmune conditions that have been triggered by the spike protein, I'll leave it at that is off the charts and under reported.
I have patients, you know. But anyway, the point is, is that yes, I'm entrepreneurial, I like to problem solve and I'm also a communicator at heart. I told you I write three emails a week to my patients. And so, I do a lot of writing and a lot of do, I guess I do. So, they say when you do a lot of writing, you do a lot of thinking, and so, you can't really do one without the other.
So, all of that is all that, that is fun. Do I wish I had a little bit more? Free time or, you know, more of a balance? Yeah, I mean, I, I try to squeeze more into less in all aspects of my life. I've I'm a bit of a biohacker, although that, you know, some people don't necessarily love that term. I'm a longevity buff.
I've worked on my sleep patterns, my feeding schedule. I've worked on my supplement regimen. You know, I, I try to take care of myself as best I can. Because I have to be an optimal performance to operate at the level that I just told you. Right? 250, 300 surgeries a year, but also run the practice with over 30 team members.
And the other parts of the business are consulting business, the hair coach program, the Bauman Institute program, my nonprofit hobbies you know, and my family. Two kids. One kid graduated college, the other one in college right now. And coming up on my 25th anniversary, wedding anniversary this year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, she stuck with you. That's fantastic. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And is she still working in the practice or did you retire her? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Karen retired at the eight and a half month point in her pregnancy with our first child. Perfect. So, so, that was yeah, that was 22 and a half years ago.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God, that's amazing. All in all, what would you say is the biggest challenge of running your own practice? How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Gosh. Well, trying to find time. Well, first of all, I think the biggest challenge for me personally has been over the years letting go of some of the things that I used to do myself, right? So, when you're in a thousand square foot facility with one operatory and zero employees, a 100% of everything is you.
And letting my team as it's grown over the years, Establish themselves and to gain confidence in their own leadership and their own management, management skills. And not saying, letting them, you know, like a child, you let them fail, right? But but let them kind of work through the problems to the best of their ability before you kind of jump in and rescue them.
I think has been a, a valuable lesson for me and I, and sometimes I still do, still struggle with letting go of some of the things. You know, I probably do too much. Maybe some of things on the admin side, and I probably should just let somebody else handle that. But, you know, I also, I'm very detail oriented in that way.
I'm, I'm kind of meticulous you asked about marketing and communications, like, you know, if you're not meticulous about that, it can drift very easily. And if you outsource some of that stuff then the message becomes off mark, off the mark. And I've always tried to maintain a very, very consistent. Core philosophy, developed core values for my employees and the way that we treat each other and the way that we treat our patients, and I think that was really, really important.
But I would say the challenge day to day is just trying to get everything squeezed into that regular day, you know, however long that day might be. And, and sometimes it goes very long, right? Because you, you know, I didn't even mention the workout regimen and all of that stuff that we're doing. But anyway, those are, you know, those are all things that you have to do as a business owner, as a human who want, I, I mean, look, I've done it for 25 years.
I want to do it for another 25.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Well, you're off to a very good start. So, last question, because I know you have a time delay, a time issue here. Tell us something we don't know about you. How did this impact your ability at attracting hair loss patients?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Something that you don't know Well, my current most favorite hobby is being a volunteer medical director for Grey Team.
www.GreyTeam.org is a 5 0 1 organization based here in Boca Raton with a physical facility that helps take care of our active military and military veterans. And it, they do so, in a way that provides not just a social space to gather. But also, what would, I would say a wellness center that includes nutrition and fitness.
Some of the other like alternative therapies to pharmaceuticals that they might find at the VA to get them out of pain, but most importantly, to help prevent P T S D related suicide. And you know, as a physician, I help you know, people's lives by restoring their hair. But as a patriot, I get the chance to help our military veterans and our active military.
Maintain their health and wellness mentally, physically. And elevate them back into society and help sustain them and support them in a, in a way that is just being missed. I think by the current system, which is the VA, essentially. If they have a pain you know, an injury, whether it's mental or physical, they'll go to the VA and they'll come back with a, a goody bag of, of medication.
So, that's kind of like Medicine 2.0. Right. Medicine 1.0 was like before antibiotics. Right. You know, we observed and then we did something, you know, with the spirits. And then we have antibiotics that's 2.0. And as a friend of mine, Dr. Peter Atilla says to have Medicine 3.0 is we try to take a little bit more of a proactive approach and we think maybe a little bit more about, you know, exercise and nutrition and figure out how to prescribe that more detail than like, just go exercise for X number of hours, you know?
But anyway, so, working with those veterans is a way to help me honor those in my family who have served in the military. My grandfather, my uncle, both served in the Navy. I have not served myself personally but I do know the sacrifices that they made and our military continues to make to help us as American citizens.
Maintain our freedoms and we send those guys out there. We turn young men into soldiers and put them in faraway lands and dangerous places so, that we don't have to face that kind of effort. And then, you know, and that, and that threat here at home and sometimes I think it's underappreciated. And so, that it's been a blessing to be able to help those folks elevate themselves mentally, physically, and otherwise.
And also financially, because honestly, many of them, Come back, maybe debilitated they're on some medication for pain and then get caught up in substance abuse and things like that. And, and it's a downward spiral. So, if we can reverse that, then they become better family members, they become better citizens, they become better entrepreneurs perhaps, and maybe, you know, better part of the workforce and be contributing to society in a way.
And I think we owe them that. That that gratitude, they owe them that courtesy. And since our current system really doesn't provide that you know, someone has to step up to do that. So, Grey Team is the way that I step up and do that. And it was founded by my very good friend Carrie Reich Bach, who is an ex-military.
He was in the Army. And when he asked me to be the medical director, I, I just had to say yes. I, I couldn't say no.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I congratulate your efforts because it's, they're sorely needed, as you've noted. So, crazy. If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, what would be the best way?
Alan J. Bauman, MD: Yeah, so, well first, you can always connect with me through www.BaumanMedical.com.
I mean, that's like the central location, thousands of pages that I've written personally about hair loss and hair restoration over the years, all the different technologies. But if you have a question for me personally, you can go to www.BaumanMedical.com/ask and just ask anything. AMAβ¦ask me whatever. I see all of those that come through.
So, you can ask any question. If you're a surgeon, a physician, an aesthetician, you're not in the medical field at all. You're a barber, you're a stylist you're a hair loss potential patient, or maybe you've had some surgery and or hair restoration treatments and haven't really gotten the results that you want that would be a good place to start.
Of course, you can find me on all the traditional social media, locations, platforms. I'm back on LinkedIn and I'm there on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, even TikTok even though I'm not a good TikTok yet. I haven't got my dance moves down, but yeah; you stay too. Yeah. You'll work on it. No, no, no.
That's not me. I don't think it's going to be me, but maybe my team will help me. You know, I got 30 team members, so, somebody's got to know how to dance. Right, right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord. All right, thank you so, much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on attracting hair loss patients.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Bauman, you can reach out to his website at, www.baumanmedical.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Bauman for sharing his expertise on attracting hair loss patients.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βAttracting Hair Loss Patients β with Alan J. Bauman, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #catherinemaley #catherinemaleymba
#alanjbaumanmd #dralanjbauman #hairlosspatients #gethairlosspatients #attractinghairlosspatients
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying land & building a practice from scratch.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Buying Land & Building Practice from Scratch β with Edward D. Buckingham, MD".
Deciding WHERE you do surgery is a big decision that affects your time, resources, profits and sanity.
And the answer to that question changes as you change. For example:
- You have a killer deal with a friend of yours to use his OR; however, itβs a 30-60 commute depending on traffic
- You use another surgeonβs OR in your building, but they continue to raise the fees and youβre feeling exploited
- Your surgical coordinator is struggling to get you blocked times at the hospital and so on.
Thatβs usually when you start dreaming of taking back your life and enjoying autonomy to do surgery wherever and whenever you please, while even adding more surgeons to help pay for it if you choose.
This weekβs Beauty of the Biz Podcast episode is an interview I did with Dr. Edward Buckingham. Heβs a facial plastic surgeon with a BA degree in accounting and in private practice, in a gorgeous new office in Austin, TX.
He decided it was time to upscale and play a bigger game, so we talked about:
- The myriad of construction and permit issues of buying land and building a practice from scratch
- The timing challenge between the end of your lease and the start date of your new office being βmove-in readyβ
- Bringing on other surgeons to buy in to his practice so he can enjoy life/work balance
Visit Dr. Buckinghamβs website P.S. Give us a review please!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Buying Land & Building Practice from Scratchβ with Edward D. Buckingham, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and buying land & building a practice from scratch. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's episode is an interview I did with Dr. Edward Buckingham, who has a lot of experience buying land & building a practice from scratch. He's a facial plastic surgeon with a BA degree in accounting, which I'm sure we'll talk about, and he's in private practice in a gorgeous new office in Austin, Texas, which we will absolutely talk about.
Now, Dr. Buckingham attended the University of Texas for his medical degree and his general surgery internship at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, before he endeavored on buying land & building a practice from scratch.
Now, he then completed a fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery in Albany, New York. Now, he's won several awards for his academic achievements as well as numerous publications and presentations, and has been a guest instructor for the facial rejuvenation course given by the AAFPRS.
He even has a wife who practices ophthalmology and oculoplastic surgery with the eye physicians of Austin. So, he is knee deep above the neck surgery. So, Dr. Buckingham, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Thank you so, much, Catherine. It's great to be here. I really appreciate you inviting me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, it's been a while since we've caught up.
So, I wanted to ask just a quick journey from, how did you get from New York to Austin, Texas, because I know you're not from there. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I'm not from here. Mentioned I'm from Dakota, but I got to New York. From Texas and back to Texas, all because of that lovely wife of mine, Dawn. She's a ninth generation Texan and there's no way you take the girl out of Texas.
You can't take Texas out of the girl, nor the girl out of Texas. It's all, it's all a lie. It just goes both ways. So, you I'm, I'm here from South Dakota in Texas because my wife is from here and it's a great, great spot to be. I couldn't be happier to be here, but it's all because of her.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. All right.
Because that has to be kind of a social change from South Dakota to Texas. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah, itβs quite a bit of difference. I got quite a shock. I went to SMU for my undergrad, so, that was my first introduction to Texas. And I went straight from rural because everything in South Dakota's, rural to Dallas and SMU is not exactly the school for the.
So, I, it was, it's quite the shock when I first went to s SMU and, and then I met Dawn and she taught me some Texas manners, and so, hopefully those are still kind of rubbing off a little bit, soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. So, do you like barbecue?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I love barbecue and, and even more so, Mexican food and margaritas.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice, nice. Okay. So, let's talk about when you came to Texas. I, I'd just love to hear, how did you get to solo practice? Did you go direct directly into it? Did you join a multi-practice? What'd you do? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I did, so, as you mentioned, I did my fellowship with Ed Williamson Albany, and of course he's a great entrepreneur.
I know he's been on your show quite a bit and helped you with all kinds of things. And so, he really was instrumental in giving me that kind of added benefit on top of my already accounting degree and my business knowledge. And because I had the benefit of a wife who was joining a single specialty ophthalmology group, we were able to support ourselves financially.
So, that gave me the opportunity. To just hang a shingle, which is what I always wanted to do. So, I went straight from fellowship to Austin and basically just started to practice from scratch.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, no kidding. I actually know your area well. I ha I used to have some real estate there and I sold at the wrong time.
I might add, but that's another story. So, I mean, Austin just took off. How long were you in practice before you saw the surge of Austin? Did you know Austin was going to be what it is today, or? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I mean, Austin has always been popular and growing, but I also lived back here in the nineties and my wife has lived here since about 1976 or so.
Mm-hmm. And so, it went from town, 300,000-person town to around 2 million now, and it was probably. One, three or so, when I moved here and it's just been growing exponentially. So, I don't know that I anticipated the growth that was going to happen. We certainly knew it was growing, but we came again. We just came here.
My wife graduated high school here. She has family here. So, it was just more of picking a spot because of family reasons, more so, than anticipating the business possibilities and positiveness about that. But it turned out, it turned out well. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good point. And did you always do reconstructive as well as cosmetic or how, how is that going to work out? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, when you started practice and you hang a shingle, you do everything you possibly can to earn any dime you can. So, I did everything and anything. When I first started, I actually subleased spaced from my wife's ophthalmology practice. Two, two half days a week in Austin, because that's all the patients I had.
I'd be lucky if I had one or two. And then I also had a space up in a small town called Lano and one in a place called Horseshoe Bay, which are about 30 miles west of Austin and about 50 miles west of Austin because there was a family medicine group up there that had about 18 doctors in it. They didn't even have a dermatologist in town.
And so, I literally went up and did a day a week in those clinics and they referred me anything on anywhere that needed anything other than they was skin related other than a rash. So, that was, that's what I told them. I'm like, I'll do anything but a rash because I'm not a dermatologist. I don't know what to do.
But if you've got a sip, a cyst, or a lump or a bump or a lipoma or a cancer of any kind, I took anything and everything. And then I did a lot of shoe leather. I literally just went around and. Talked to dermatologists and most surgeons and just basically built a, a referral practice just getting people to just send me a skin cancer here and there.
And they would literally send me one and I'd do the repair, and then they would figure out if I did a good job or not. And they'd be like, okay, he looks like he knows what he's doing and they send me another one. And then soon enough it became another one and another one and another one. And then from there, those patients turned into cosmetic patients.
And so, then the cosmetic side of things slowly grew. So, I would say, You know, initially I did a whole lot of reconstructive work and or anything else that I could, you know, provide a good service for folks. And then this, then the cosmetic side just slowly built from there. And now I do about 90% cosmetics and about 10% skin cancer reconstruction.
But, and that's, and that's really all we do now for, for me in particular, is just aesthetics. And then the only thing, non-aesthetic that I do, Skin cancer reconstruction. We're going to talk about bringing on partners and things like that later, but I, I let my junior associate do some of that and I've got a fellowship too.
And so, the fellows do kind of the lumps and bumps now too. But I still really enjoy doing those reconstruction. So, I continue to do that even though I'm 20 years in practice now and could easily kind of get rid of that. But I just, I choose not to, I say that I do facelifts to put my kids through college and I do skin cancer for my soul.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. When, give me the timeframe between the time you like, there's a grind to what you were doing. You've got three locations, they're 30 miles apart, 50 miles apart. How long did you do that? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I did the two satellite offices until I got busy enough whereby, I could keep myself busy in Austin, and that took about four to five years.
And then I slowly leaned away from doing those little satellite offices.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But I hope people hear that because the, a lot of the surgeons in today's world think they're going to jump right in. And I, I don't think you can do that. I think, I mean, it takes a minute to get your bearings and actually more than a minute.
It takes years, you know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: It does. And it, it's interesting because obviously things were different when I started practice. I see. We've actually had quite a few young surgeons move into Austin. Mm-hmm. And, and open practice for themselves. And they really hit the social media hard and kind of get referrals through that.
And they become really a heavy injectable practice. I mean, when I, when I started practice wrestling wasn't even FDA approved yet. We had, we had human collagen products, and so, the injectable business was not what it is today. And so, that, that's what I see the young people doing now is they basically become injectors and then they convert those patients over to aesthetic patients at surgical patients at some point.
But that, and, and obviously I'm not in their practice. I don't know that for a fact, but I don't do social media myself. I, I just don't have time and I just don't enjoy it. So, but other people in my office will kind of follow those newer surgeons in town, and that's kind of the impression that I get, is that they're heavy injectors and then I'm sure they're getting into the surgical aspect as they get a little more mature.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, I know several of them and that's exactly what they've done. So, whereas you did recon and got and like actually enhanced your surgical skills, they're actually going another route and doing social media and getting the nonsurgical and then hopefully transitioning that to surgical. So, there's no one way to do this is the point, you know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No, that's definitely not you. You do anything you can to pay the bills and worry about, worry about the rest later.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. The building that you just left, the, that was super nice building, super nice neighborhood. Were you, how long had you been in that building? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, I'm in my third oh, my third practice in Austin.
Okay. I, I leased space for about the first eight years and then ran out of space and then leased another space for another 10 years. And so, 18 years in, well, it was really about 14 years in, I decided to actually look for land and start the architectural process and permitting process and all that to build the current building that I'm in.
But I had two previous lease spaces before that, so, I've just, I just moved into this new building that you're referring to. Yeah, this last, last march. That is, that is, you know, my building that I own.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, before you got to that big building, you had a pretty solid practice. Like what, what, what made up your practice? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, I had about 3,500 square feet. I had a little office procedure room, but nothing that I could do. Level two anesthesia. So, I was using a surgery center full-time and it was just me and a nurse injector. And a nurse doing lasers. And so, that worked. And then I decided to bring in a junior associate. And the timing was planned so, that I would be moving into the new building as the junior associate came on.
And that, that timing was a little delayed because of construction delays. But we basically were just busting at the seams at the old space when you, when you bring in. So, now, now I've got my junior associate, Dr. Aaron Smith, who's been with me about two and a half years. My current fellow Hudson Fry is going to be joining us and starting on after his fellowship in August.
And then I have three nurses who provide injectable and laser services. So, they'll, there's really six providers in the office at this point, which obviously requires a little more space. And then in the new office we also have two quad SF accredited operating rooms and recovery space and all that too.
So, obviously that requires a bigger square foot space than just kind of doing what I was doing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, you jumped. So, what's the difference? Like how did you get to that point where you said, okay, I only have like one nurse injector and me making money and now I've decided to go big. What's the mindset there and how much how much fear you know, excitement goes into that because that's a big decision to make.
How do you make that decision to really jump like you did? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah, I mean the, the nurses, I mean, my nurse Renee has been with me 16 years. Okay. And I, I brought her on and introduced her into beginning to do that, just basically when I got busy enough that I didn't want to be doing the injectable part of stuff.
And so, I started passing that on to her so, I could spend more time doing surgical stuff and, and when, and she came on 16 years ago as a clinic nurse, and then, A few years after that transition. So, but basically, she transitioned into doing injectables when I got to the point where I couldn't accommodate everybody who wanted to do injectables with me in a timely fashion.
So, that kind of grew and that's, and that's basically how we determine when we're going to transition to new nurse. So, I bring in nurses to clinical practice because they need to learn about facelifts and skincare and taking care of post-op patients and understanding. What a patient is talking about when they say they have heavy, you know, heavy eyelids and just facial aesthetics in general.
So, I'm, I believe that a nurse needs to spend some time learning that prior to being allowed to move into the actual aesthetic provider world. And so, we convert nurses who are better in our clinical practice into first doing lasers, then neuromodulators, and then fillers. As we get basically just busy enough to, to warrant that.
So, right now we've got, you know, Renee, who only does neuromodulators and fillers, and then I've got another nurse, Sarah, who does some lasers and she does neuromodulators and a little bit of kind introductory fillers. And then I have a third nurse who's the newest one in, and she's basically only doing lasers at this point, but as the other one gets busier and we have more people, then she'll transition the neuromodulators and fillers and then we'll backfill behind her, hopefully someday with the fourth individual doing that.
So, that's how we kind of handle the decisions on doing the nursing, the, the ansary, non-physician providers as far as bringing on a junior associate. It's part of an exit plan to bring somebody in. And I know you want to talk more about that, so, I don't want to spill the beans on that too much. I'll let you bring the questions forward on that.
But essentially, you know, my clinic is booked until, well, right, right now, if you just call up and want an appointment with me, and I, I don't mean to be braggadocious here, so, I don't, please, please don't. It's just making a point. But my first available clinic is in the clinic appointments in December right now.
And so, and it, and it's been six to eight months booked out for quite some time. So, you have to think at some point that. You're losing patients because they're not going to wait six months to see you. And so, you can either let them go to somebody else in town or you can bring somebody else in to see them. And I, I probably waited perhaps a little too long to do that, but it just, you have other influences in your life and decisions going on that make you kind of figure out when you're going to do it.
And so, you know, we did it, like I said, about three years ago is when we really started looking, or three and a half years. And then Aaron's been with me for about two and a half years. And it, and it's worked out great. So, she's really busy and doing well and getting busier all the time. And I think that when she rolled right in, just because I basically, and I know some surgeons structure this differently.
They bring in junior associates and they say, here, you do all the insurance work. I'm doing all the cosmetic work. I don't think that that's really a fair arrangement. They need to be able to generate, you know, good revenue and do what they can do too. So, basically, Anybody who calls our office for a cosmetic appointment, we offer them myself or Erin.
And if they don't specifically want me, we encourage them to see Erin cause her clinic schedule's more open than mine and that's allowed her to get really busy. I think she did 50 or 60 facelifts her first year in practice with us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And is there a different price, caring structure for you versus her? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No. You know, I don't want to give the impression that she's somehow an inferior surgeon to me, and I know that there's. It can be some differences in opinion. Just say, you know, look, you've been in practice 20 years and everybody knows you, so, you should charge more. But we talked about it, and between just the two of us making a decision, we didn't feel like there was anything inferior in her quality.
She's excellent surgeon and has great training, and so, we, we charge exactly the same.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't look at it that way. I would look at it as there's premium pricing to get somebody like you who's got the experience. And it's just if you, if you want to wait and pay more, you know, for the experience, go with Dr. B if you're in a hurry and price is an option, or price is an objective then go with plan b. I, I personally like to give the patients a choice, but it's sold as, If you want Premier, you know, Aaron's great, but if you want the guy, you're going to have to wait for him and pay more. Just saying. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Yeah.
No, that, that's probably good advice. I'll take that to our next manager's meeting and see what everybody has to say about that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's not saying excuse mediocre, it's saying you're the best. And you extra and wait for it. Yeah. Okay. And then any staff tips, because you've had a lot of staff like everybody, you know any tips on, especially when you're hiring nurses, any tips on how you're finding them and keeping them motivated? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Because nurses can be a little on the touchy side. Once they're around for a while and they start thinking they have a following and it's all about them. Have you had any of those issues? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, you are referring to the nurse injectors then? Yes. Yes. So, I mean first of all, they have a non-compete and so, they can't just leave, which is important, you know, in any situation where you've done, and again, I'm not bringing in a nurse injector who's fully trained and, and doing her own thing, and she just comes and joins my practice.
I'm taking somebody who's never injected anything in their life and training them up myself. And so, that, that is important for allowing a non-compete to stick is that you have to actually have provided some training that they couldn't have gotten elsewhere, that, that makes them beholden to you to some degree.
So, not that they couldn't leave and, and go outside the radius to the non-compete or move wherever they want to. So, that's just a, that's just a part of it. The other part of it is just treating them really well. Both treating them well as far as, you know, just personally and making a friendly, fun environment and, and being a good boss but also treating them well financially.
So, I don't know that my nurse injector could go out on her own and make, you know, more than what I'm paying her. I mean, I'm, I've got the building and the advertising and cover everything else, and she's paid a base hourly wage as well as a pretty generous commission. And she brings home, you know, six figures in a good way.
And I think that's, that's a pretty good number. So, I think that they don't, they don't want to leave. They, they're, they're in a great work environment. They've got great support staff. It's a fun office. We have a lot of fun, and they're financially rewarded in such a way that they have no motivation to leave.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How do you have fun? I keep saying to the practices in today's world, it can't be all stress, you know, it just can't be all. A lot of patients or a lot of people don't want to deal with the stress anymore. They want their life fun, especially like some of the younger people. I came from a big, strong work ethic from the Midwest and it, we weren't.
We weren't there for fun, we were there for work. And it seems like that has changed a bit. Like what do you do for fun? I always say, weβll have a taco truck pull up if everyone reached the goal that month. Like any ideas there? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: You know, it's not that we do necessarily anything special to have fun.
We just have fun. I mean, we encourage people to laugh and enjoy their work environment. Patients frequently comment because they'll, they'll be in a room and we'll be doing some stitch removal or doing a dressing change or something like that, and they'll just be staff members outside the door just cracking up.
And I think that there are some people who would, who'd be like, wow, you know, you guys tone it down a little bit. But patients love it. We just encourage it. And so, we just, we just joke and laugh and have fun. Our staff has a great relationship with each other. I mean, just this past weekend about seven or eight of them all went out on a boat after work on Friday and just, you know, they just enjoy each other's company.
So, it's not that we, it's not that we do anything specific. We just encourage a fun work environment and it, it, a lot of it has to do with just the people. I don't, I don't think that that's something. That you just flip a switch and bring on overnight. It's a slow, steady process and bringing in good people and keeping good people and getting rid of, of grumpy people and just encouraging that culture and that that's really what it's all about.
Not that we don't do other things. I mean, I, we used to do lunch for a staff, for example when they're having a birthday and it just became expected that they're like, oh, it's my birthday. We're going to do lunch. And granted, when you go from 12 employees to 24, that gets to be allotted lunches. And so, we changed that where we probably do more times than I bring in lunch than not, but it's always a surprise.
We just, we just, the day before we just say, Hey, Dr. Buckingham's buying, you know, barbecue for lunch tomorrow, or whatever. It's, and, and then we just, you know, same thing because our office hours, we close the office at noon on Friday. And so, that, that allows people to do some of the things that they need to do, like go to the bank and get a haircut.
And go to doctor's appointments and things like that. And so, they really, and it also enjoys us to just every now and then we'll just say, you know, Hey, we're going to go to the, the local wine bar and hang out for a couple hours and, you know, tabs on Buckingham Center. And the staff love that. We just go enjoy each other's company and I pay for some drinks and make sure everybody gets home safe.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love the idea about Friday shutting down Earlier, I used to say, oh, but you're going to miss a bunch of patients. And I've, I've done mystery shopping forever, and frankly Fridays are they're quieter, so, why not? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Why? I mean, that's a great perk. And you don't have to disrupt the, the regular working day, you know, it's just, they, they get to leave early to run errands.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea.
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Well, and we, and we start our office at seven 30 every day too. So, I never understood why we start surgery at seven 30 at. So, we start every day whether it's clinic or the operating room at seven 30, and then we see our last patient at four. And I, I don't personally eat lunch, so, we don't take, we don't close the office for lunch at all.
We just rotate staff through and they get to go take their lunch break while we're working. And so, that allows me to be, you know, ultra-efficient and we just rock and roll all day long and keep it going. And that way we get to work before Austin. Traffic gets too crazy and hopefully leave before Austin.
Traffic gets too crazy. Now, operative days go past four, but the but the clinic closes at four, so, operative days, you got to do what you do. If you got surgery that ends at five or six you just do that. But I also. Don't believe in operating till nine. I know some folks are just, they'll book surgery till nine or 10 o'clock at night and just work, work, work, work, work.
I just, I don't have it in me. I enjoy my personal life too much for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now I'm talking about Austin traffic. I remember when I first get, but like I was there 10 years ago or something and I remember saying to my boyfriend, What are they going to do with all this traffic? Like there are no highways, there's no buses, there's no trains.
Like is there any plan? By the way, is there any plan for infrastructure? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: They, they're, they are talking about light rail. It is extremely expensive. And you can't just put tunnels and subways. In Austin, Texas, the entire ground is rock. And so, I mean, you could, but it would be dynamite underneath city blocks in order to accomplish that.
I'm not sure that that's such a great plan. So, they're talking about putting in some above ground light rail, but mostly just. Expanding roads and doing what they can. But yeah, it's, it's a little bit of a problem. We have, as you know, rivers and, and what, what they call lakes which, and coming from, you know, the mountain area, this wouldn't be a lake, it'd just be a little bit wider river.
Right. But we, but we call them lakes around here. Yeah. But there's multiple water crossings. And so, that, you know, obviously is an issue with traffic too. Because you have to build big, giant, wide bridges to accommodate that. And that just gets tricky. So, it is, it's, it's a problem and it's not Progressing as quickly as anybody I think, who lives here would like for it to be progressing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Well, I know half of California moved there and I remember there was a saying that said, don't buy Texas real estate with California eyes. And that because the real estate was so, different now you guys are catching up to California prices. So, things have changed a lot. So, let's talk about your new building because that was a really big commitment you made, but you have that accounting degree, so, I'll bet that helped you crunch the numbers to decide how you want to do that.
How far is your new, your brand new, gorgeous building from your previous building? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Only about three miles. We, we've, if you Yeah, we've, we've stayed in basically the rolling wood Westley Hills area, which I know you're a little familiar, great area. So, yeah, it's, it's on the west side of town. It's in the kind of horseshoe of the median income being where it needs to be.
So, that's where we kind of have stayed. So, yeah, I mean, I basically just knew that I needed quite a bit more space and I always wanted to bring my operating rooms in house and so, When I was about five years into my previous 10 year lease, I just started looking for land and then found basically the last piece of land that was kind of near 360, which is considered kind of the inner, inner part of the Westlake area and got that land under contract and did our due diligence as far as understanding what the impervious cover is and how big of a building we could build.
And we went through the architectural schematics of multiple different designs. And decided on something that was just ground parking and smaller, because we looked at doing an even bigger building with the first couple floors of being structured parking. I had a building consultant who assisted with, you know, kind of understanding.
He knew what it would cost to do structured parking. Versus doing surface parking and what the square footage of the building would be. And we crunched the numbers to determine what maybe rental rates would be with that additional square foot with the additional cost of structured parking and just settled on a smaller building with surface parking.
But, but you're exactly right. You just do that. You just, you know, crunch numbers. And even with my accounting degree, I don't know that I know enough about. Doing that sort of number crunching, because not only do you need to be able to do that, but you have to understand that if you build a parking garage that's two stories and X number square feet, that it's going to be about this amount per square foot to build it.
And then you have to extrapolate and take those numbers from there. So, it's really, you really need to console to kind of help you with that sort of stuff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Just gimme some of the mistakes made that others could learn from. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Huh? In, in, in regards to what? The building the construction. Right. Well, hindsight is 2020.
Mm-hmm. We, we still, even though we've been in the building for a year, have not finished our punch list. And I, I don't want to go into too much of it cause I'm trying to keep this a happy conversation. But we're having significant issues with our general contractor, our general contractor's having significant, significant financial issues as it is sometimes in the construction world.
When interest rates go up, you've got yourself over leveraged and extended, and all of a sudden you get yourself in trouble. And, and our contractor has gotten himself in trouble. So, so, we've got, you know, some subs that haven't been paid and some liens and there's lawyers involved. And so, I guess if you take hindsight in consideration, I would say hire a really experienced federal contractor that you know is going to be in business and is going to be able to weather the storm.
And even if it costs you a little bit more, it's probably worth it. Even though I didn't necessarily go with the low-cost general contractor, and when I hired him, he was in in great financial shape and seemed like the best decision to be made. But I think that from a building standpoint, at this point in time, that that was the, the biggest issue.
And then, but that, that's a hindsight issue and that that was just a decision that could have been better. I think that the other advice I would give is that we had a really extended timeframe for permitting. And it was because of an intrinsic property issue whereby we had a couple of different watersheds in the property and we didn't have any zoning in the city of Boston to accommodate for those two separate water watersheds.
And so, the city just didn't do anything. They just sat on the plans and said, well, we don't have any zoning for this, so, we're just going to sit on these and not do anything. And I, being naive, just felt like they were just being slow. It didn't occur to me to hire an attorney. Who had inside leverage with the city to push the process along.
So, that's what we finally ended up doing as I hired a real estate attorney who's been in Austin for a long time and has poll, and we went down and met with the city and actually got them. Because they weren't even telling us that this is the issue. They just, they just weren't doing anything. And so, we finally all sat down in the room and they said, well, this is the issue.
And we were able to come to a pretty quick resolution and, and get permitting on the road. So, I think that that would be the, the thing that I would tell people is that if things don't seem like they're moving, Find an attorney who has leverage within the, within your system and push it alongβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: β¦and who's played the game before and knows who to go to get things done.
How, because I know the last time I saw you at a meeting, everything was delayed, delayed, delayed, the permits. How long did it take you to actually go from, I guess, ground to up and running? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, from breaking ground up and running? Mm-hmm. It's probably two to two and a half years. Again, patience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You need some patience that you have to really allow for these time delays, right? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: You do. When I started the process and the permitting and construction, I had about five years left in my lease when I was looking for land. And so, we actually a little bit, sorry about the background noise a little bit. I, at, at the surgery center cause I was doing skin cancer and so, we got cleaning crew kind of rolling in.
Great. So, anyway, but I thought that my biggest problem was going to be that I was going to have to find a, a sublease to fill my right, my space. And I would definitely err on the side of knowing that you might have to either pay double rent or find this a subtenant sublease because as it ended up, I ended up holding over on my lease for about four and a half or five months.
And literally, I mean, I, I had the ability to stay as long as I wanted to, but my, my landlord was none too pleased. And so, it, it got a little bit contentious at the end. And, and basically, we got, we literally got out of our old lease space and were supposed to be moving into the same buildings into our new building simultaneously.
And as it turned out, we didn't have a certificate of occupancy from fire marshal to get into the new building. And so, for a week, I, I just saw post-op patients in one of my general in one of the plastic surgeons in town who's a colleague, just saw patients who needed to be seen in his office, in her office.
And then we got finally a week later got ours too and actually were able to move in. It was a little, little stressful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I'd say so. But now that you're in, how many square feet did you go in? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, our, we, we occupied the first floor of the building. So, the first floor is 7,500 square feet, but there is, there is some common area for stairs and elevators.
So, The actual space that we occupy is around 6,900, right around 7,000. And then the building has got two stories. So, the upstairs is tenant space. That'll is, is in the process of being built out. Because of course it's nice to have some money being generated for a building that you own that isn't just being generated by you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. But then don't you have to what do you call it when you have tenants come in and you have to rearrange things? What do you call that? Retrofitted or something for the tenant. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Well, you, you have to do the, the build out. I mean, it's just shell space and so, Right. And, and there's a couple ways you can have a tenant that comes in and they're like, yeah, I like shell space.
Just gimme some tenant improvement dollars. And they just kind of take that money and do the real build out. We, we looked at that for a while and we weren't getting anybody to really bite. And so, we actually did the architectural plans and we're in the process of building out the top floor ourselves and then just getting a tenant to come into the, to the finished space.
And then of course, as we're in that process, we get a tenant come that comes along that wants to customize their space. And so, we're just actually signing a piece for somebody who's going to take what we did and undo some of it and do it on their own, whatever.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, anyway. But don't you have a say in that because they, you don't want them doing any crazy stuff upstairs, right? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Oh, I absolutely have a hundred percent what they do. I have a hundred percent saying who's up there what kind of business they have. I mean, obviously I don't get to control what business they have, but I get to control what businesses go up there. And what their finish out looks like as far as the quality of what they're doing, all of that stuff.
You bet I have a hundred percent control over, over what goes on up there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you have a nice exit strategy from what I can tell. You're now a landlord. You have a beautiful practice where you can bring on more providers, more revenue generating providers. Do you have and I know you, do you have an exit strategy? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
I don't know how far out it is. I mean, are you, are you like winding down or are you just getting started? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I am, I am steady right now. I don't have any plans to wind down in the next year or two or so. So, nothing's really firm on the horizon, but yes, so, and again, this, this is different business models and different people have different opinions.
I know multiple people who believe in separating out all of their business aspects. So, they might have their operating rooms as one business and their surgical practice is one business and the nurse injectors is one business and they're. Philosophy on that is to have multiple profit centers and multiple things to sell, to sell.
I basically looked at that and said that it doesn't really matter because your bottom line is your bottom line from business to business. And so, you can take all of that money and put it in one bucket and you look at your, your EBITDA and your whatever X factor that is to sell that. And it is, it is what it is.
And so, I chose to put all of my operating and revenue, my nurse injector revenue, the surgeon revenue, everything all in one bucket. And then, in my opinion, that makes it easier to bring on somebody who wants to buy in because they can see that there's all of this other revenue that's flowing to the bottom line that they don't currently get a piece of, because they're not an owner.
The only thing that the surgeon gets a piece of when they come into a practice, typically is whatever percentage of money of their own money that they generate that you give them. So, you have to have something else that they're not personally generating this, flowing to the bottom line to make it a reasonable situation where they want to buy in.
So, as I was bringing in my junior associate and I was talking to people a, about what they had done. Because I know there are multiple examples of bringing in junior associates and the junior associate says, I'm not going to buy in. It's not worth it. I'm leaving. I'm going to go open my own doors or do whatever I'm going to do.
And it just doesn't work out. And so, people told me, they're like, yeah, you can't just get a practice valuation and expect them to buy in. And I disagree. And that's exactly what we did. We set parameters and, and Erin came in and she did her two years and she got her board certification and then we got a practice valuation and we said, Hey, this is the number.
And she said, great. And, and that's it. So, she bought 20% of the practice just about, well, middle of March, we closed on that. So, and, and that'll be a great investment for her. There's obviously a lot of revenue that's being generated by other individuals and it goes to the bottom line and now she'll get 20% of all of that.
And we, and she and I live by the same formula, so, I think that you have to be fair with your junior. So, just like when she came in and I said, look, I'm not going to do all the cosmetic and let you do all the recon. We're going to, we're going to let whatever comes in and wants to go to you, go to you. Because I wanted her to be able to generate.
As much revenue as she possibly could, even though she gets obviously the lion's share of that. But now that she's bought in I u I used to just take a salary and then whatever was left over, I just took draws whenever I wanted to. Right. Because I own a hundred percent. But obviously when you bring in another owner, then that's not the case anymore.
You have to split it with whatever ownership percentage they have. And so, also to make it fair, I live by the same formula she does. So, up to a certain revenue amount, I get 40% of what I bring in. Above the next threshold, I get 45 and above the next threshold, I get 50 and less overheads running more than 50%, and then it gets reduced down.
But over a certain threshold, you get to, you get to take home, you know, everything up to what the expenses are. So, just like for her, part of her earnings is going to the bottom line. Same with me. Part of my earnings are going to the bottom line. So, she gets 20% of what. It goes to the bottom line that she generates and she gets 20%, that goes to the bottom line to what I generate.
So, it's just a fair situation. We both get to benefit and it makes it enticing for somebody to want to buy in and feel like they're getting value for their money and, and it allows me, I think, you know, I think the biggest problem that doctors do, and I'm not saying this is necessarily in the plastic surgery world, but you know, you see doctors all the time who build this practice for their entire career for 35 or 40 years and then they go, oh, I'm ready to retire.
I'm going to still my practice. Well, it doesn't have any value if you sell it when you're gone. Your practice is your practice because of you and what you built. And so, you have to bring in a junior associate and allow them to build their practice under your name and what everybody's doing to come in that they recognized how, how you know good you are and let them build their practice with that, and you need to step away incrementally.
It wouldn't also be fair for me to have Aaron buy in at 20% and then go, okay, hey, thanks so, much for the 20%. I'm going to go work two days a week. That just doesn't work. So, that, that's kind of the philosophy. But as far as I, so, I do, I do have a plan. Obviously, I've got Dr. Fry who's starting up in August and my, my hope is that he will be equally as successful and busy as Aaron was after two years.
And then he'll want to buy in as well, and I'll let him buy in 20% as well. And then I figure sometime between 60 and 62, I'm, I'm about to be 55 now, so, sometime between 60 and 62 I'll probably start working a half a day, a week less, and I might take a little bit more vacation. But as long as I'm having fun, I'm planning on working until, what I don't want to be is the guy that the patient walks in the room and they go, wow, I heard he was the man.
But I think he's probably a little too old now. I donβt know. I donβt know that he's got, I donβt know that he's got the stuff anymore. I will not be that person. I'm not going to work till 75 80 and be that guy that, that people think has have the tremor when they're trying to operate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I think it's a while before you get to that point.
And there are still some surgeons, this is what they do that, I mean, they are going to die on the surgery table and they know it. I think a lot of surgeons in today's world though, are really trying to figure out, is that really what I want to do? But then they have to figure out how to. How do you pass your practice onto somebody else? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
So, I like what you're doing. It's unu like, let's just go one step further. Let's say you brought on somebody else then, so, you've got two associates at 20%, then you brought on another person at another 20%. Now you're like, is that the plan to keep giving people 20% or is it maxed out at the two or? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Actually, so, so, I have a daughter who's a first-year medical student who is. Most likely, obviously she has a lot to go through before she determines what she wants to do, and then she still has to match into an ENT residency and a fellowship and all that sort of stuff. So, there's hurdles there. But if you asked her today what she was going to do, she'd say that I'm going to do facial plastic surgery.
And so, so, that's the plan is for her to potentially come in and be that next 20%. Mm-hmm. But I, I won't be in a situation where I don't have operational control from an ownership standpoint. Until I'm ready to say that, gee, if something happened, I would be ready to retire at this point. Mm-hmm. So, cause I'm just, I'm not, I'm not going to have built the company and, and lose control from a voting shareholder standpoint.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, because the nuance there is you are somebody who gets it, like you understand the business and the marketing and a lot of other surgeons don't want to, they're not interested in it. They, they're fine just being the associate forever. So, is, are you tr teaching them, like, ed Williams was so, good about teaching fellows, this is the business side, this is how you do it.
Are you doing that as well? And hoping one of them will. If you did want to step away, could they fill your shoes because you, those are big shoes to fill. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Well, obviously not immediately, but I, I certainly anticipate that Aaron's going to get busier and busier. Her word-of-mouth referrals are going to get more and more.
I assume that Dr. Fry's going to have the same scenario where he'll be busier than most his first couple years out. And then as he builds his practice and starts to build a clientele that come to him, because he's such a nice guy and such a great surgeon, that by the time they're in practice for 10 years, Then yeah, might, they'll be able to fill my shoes.
But there's no way that anybody's going to come into the practice and fill the shoes of a 20-year surgeon when they're in their first five years of practice. It's going to take multiple years for them to build up and, and get to the point where they've got a waiting list for six months of people that want to come see them as well.
It just, it just takes time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right, but then who's going to, like, is it a democracy then? Is it a dictatorship? Because right now I would think you have the final say so, in the big decisions made when you have three people under you all at 20%, I just wonder how that works out when with all the different personalities and egos, does it work out well? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
If you've got set up strike.
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. So, I don't, I don't think I answered your question on teaching fellows the business side of things, but a hundred percent absolutely. I mean, we, we say that when the fellows come and interview with us is that one of the reasons why you would want to do this fellowship is because you'll actually learn the business aspect of medicine.
We have a board document that basically says, these are the things that we expect you to know when you finish your fellowship. And, and half of that is clinical stuff. And half of it is related to marketing and accounting and staff management and HR and every other thing you can think of as far as what it takes to run a practice.
And, and I don't, I don't hold them personally responsible from the standpoint that I go, Hey, have you learned this yet? Hey, have you learned that yet? And I'm not going through checking the box. I just give it to them and go, look, this is your responsibility to learn this stuff in your, in your 12 months that you're here.
If you don't do that, too bad on you. I'm not going to be your parent. I'm not here to be your parent. I'm here to give you the opportunity to learn. And if you take the initiative to learn, you have every resource to be able to do that. So, that, that is definitely part of it. But in an, in answer to the other question, I, I don't know how, but, but it, it is not a dictatorship.
Every month we sit down and have a first Friday of the month in the morning, we have our manager's meeting, and I sit down with my HR, you know, practice manager person. My business manager, my nurse manager, the fellow Aaron, and when Renee, who's my nurse injection, can be there, she's included too. So, whatever number of people, six or seven people, and we sit down and we talk about stuff, and I definitely do not take a dictatorial attitude towards that.
I think that everybody has positive, intelligent things to say and contribute to those meetings. And oftentimes I'll get four or five people who think that an idea is better than mine. And if you know what, if I got that many people who think that they're right and they. Can convince me that they are, then we go that direction now.
Absolutely. Do I have veto power? You bet. I'm, I'm the president, the CEO. I'm in charge. But most of the time there's not anything that happens whereby I have to put my foot down and say, I know the rest of you want this, but we're not going to do this. Usually there's a pretty good consensus on most decisions.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. And then let's switch over to marketing. Any marketing tips? I mean, you're in a pretty competitive area now. Any, any, anything you are doing to help you differentiate from everyone else? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: I mean, I have the advantage of word-of-mouth referrals.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. You know, how much of your practice do you think your personal practice would be? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Word of mouth referral, 90% plus.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And I'm going to tell you why, because, and I've watched you forever. You used to send beautiful flowers to facelift patients, and you, do you still do it? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody. I don't know why everybody doesn't do that. You've got so, many notes and reviews and testimonials, and I think everyone was just so, surprised they got flowers and they all, I mean, how great of a strategy. It's not even a strategy, like you just know that's the right thing to do.
How much has that been worth to you? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Oh immeasurable. Yeah. I, I mean, you're, you're exactly right. We get comments all the time. They come. And they, and well of course they go, oh my gosh, my husband bought me flowers. And then, and then of course they're like, oh, this is from Dr. Ingham. And their husbands are kind of like, oh man, thanks, thanks dude.
I should have gotten her flowers, but nevertheless, it works. So, so, yeah, it, it, and it's and it's not overly expensive either, so, it's a, it's a really nice touch. And I, I look at it as, you know, when you're in that immediate post-operative recovery period, you don't think yourself, that you look very pretty.
And so, it's, it's nice to have something pretty and that smells good to kind of take your mind off of what you're going through. And, and it has definitely paid off immeasurably over the years. Patients, patients love it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The secret is to get those there early on. I once had a facelift and the flowers arrived 13 days later and it kind of defeated the purpose.
I'm like, where have you been? You know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Well, And it's crazy. I, for a long time believe that the flowers had to be delivered by a florist, and we went through a bunch of florists and it just was really, really difficult to get good quality flowers that got delivered in a timely fashion. Oh. And so, yeah.
Now as crazy as it is, we just do one 800 flowers.com and, and people love it because the flowers last. For like 10 or 14 days, right? Just you cannot get flowers that are that fresh. I mean, I, I'm sure there are high-end florists who have amazingly fresh flowers, but when you're going straight from the supplier who's cutting whatever flower it is and putting it in a box and sending it, the patients just say that they last forever.
So, as kind of not classy as it is to get flowers in a box in some way, shape or form, having, having really fresh flowers is, it makes upward, in my opinion,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, it's so, much fun. It's such a surprise. It's just lovely. I think it's a great idea and I don't know why everyone doesn't do it, but what a great differentiator for you, you know? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Now I know you're not a big social media kind of guy. Are the younger folks in your office the associates? Are they into it? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. So, so, Dr. Smith has a social media account that's associated with the practice that, that she runs and does AR I'm sorry, Renee, my nurse. Injector has your own social media that, that she does.
And then we have someone in the practice who does our social media. Mm-hmm. It's just not me. Mm-hmm. You, you, I mean, again, I, I don't want to do it. I'm bad at it. I don't enjoy it. I don't spend any time on social media whatsoever. I have an Instagram page only because my son's baseball games or streamed on Instagram, and I had to have one to watch his games.
It's just, it's not for me. So, so, yes, we're absolutely trying to leverage social media the best we. I wouldn't say that it's the easiest thing in the world to do, and I still have my reservations as to how much business it actually generates. I'm sure it's one component where people see you're on, see you on social media, and then they talk to whoever, and then they go to your website and ultimately, they get to you because of all of those factors, and it's really kind of difficult to tell, you know.
Which one of those elements was the first one that really brought them into knowing, into knowing you so, We just look at it, look at it as one piece of the pie that you have to do what you can to do the best you can. But I certainly don't have a million followers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? No, I'm with you. If it's not, if you're not into it, I would say it's more important that you'd be genuine when you, when you do it, and if you can have a good marketing team that just shows you off in a great way where you're not.
You're not doing the production, you know, it's just maybe they're catching you at the right times and showing the day and the life of a plastic surgeon that makes more sense. But if you're not into it, I, I just, I don't think it's, I don't think it's worth your hours and hours spending on that. It's amazing how some doctors spend two to four hours a day on it.
I just don't get that. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Well, and it, and again, I, I'm, of all the things we could talk about today, The one that I am the least authority on is probably social media. And so, but it seems to me like the doctors who are really popular on social media tend to have some sort of a flare to what they're doing.
And I am just a nuts-and-bolts kind of easygoing, you know, grew up rural kind of guy. I just, I, I can't, I can't be Dr. Miami, right? It would never, it would never work for me so, that I just, I can't do it. So, we try to, we try to provide some good content that's interesting to people that has our values embedded in it.
And unfortunately, it's just not that flashy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what would you say is the biggest challenge running and growing a cosmetic practice today? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: HR.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear that a lot, always.
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: It is, and, and I, and I would say that that's probably the most, Valuable point that I can make in, in growing a practice is as soon as you get even a sniff, that you have discontent or employees that are forming clicks and talking badly about other employees.
Break it up, make sure it ends, and if it doesn't end, get rid of them because it does not take but a half a second for a rotten apple to make the rest of the officer rotten place. And, and I've probably been through two or three iterations of that where I had employees that began that sort of behavior and taking after other employees and creating a hostile work environment.
And it, and it took me probably the third time before I actually started figuring out that you just have to have an absolutely zero tolerance policy for that. So, Knock on wood right now, we have a really good, solid culture and everybody gets along and they're all team players and they're friendly to each other.
But I tell you, just especially, especially the cliques, when you get two, when you get two people teaming up against another one, you, you just, you got to call them to the office immediately. You'll say, we don't, we are not going to tolerate this. Stop this behavior right now, or you're gone.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you because that's exactly what happens.
It, you can see it happening and you have a tendency to be too busy and not interested in it enough to get involved, and that's how it grows. And then you have a big problem on your hands and by then it's so, toxic that you've lost some of the others in your p in your practice who thought, no, I'm not working like this.
So, yeah, I hear you. HR has become an issue. So, on the, on the more fun side, tell us something we don't know about you. Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, you already, you already took the South Dakota so, that I grew up in South Dakota. That's kind of boring.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But tell us about South Dakota. Because I've never been there.
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: So, well, South Dakota where I grew up in Rapid City is an amazing place.
It's a about 65,000 people, so, relatively rural, especially when you consider that the closest big town is Denver, which is about six hours away, and you're the second biggest town in the state. So, it's, it's big enough to. Have some, some conveniences of being in a little bit of a city, but you're 15 minutes from being out in the black hills where you can literally just kind of park your car on the side of the road and take off into the forest and never see anybody else.
It's an, it's an amazing forest because it's an arid forest and so, there's not a lot of undergrowth, and so, literally you don't even need a trail. You can just go; I want to head west and just go. And as long as you don't get lost and get yourself turned around you, you'll get back to where you want to be.
So, it's, it's really, it was an amazing environment to grow up in. Really good, solid people. Just beautiful country. Tons of granted, obviously Mount Rushmore's there. So, it was a really, really great place to grow up. The only problem with being a facial plastic surgeon there is you'd have to convince the goats and the cattle to have facelifts cause there's not many people.
So, but Texas works out good for that. And I just get home, but I still have family that, that lives up there. My. Sister and brother live up there and my parents are there, but they don't winter there anymore. They're in their mid-eighties and they don't like to drive on the snow anymore, so, they go south for the winter.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Like, where would they go? To Texas?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No. I tried to get them to come to Texas, but they had all their friends were going to the Sun City area in Arizona. So, they so, they went in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that works. Arizona's beautiful in the wintertime. It's brutal in the summer.
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yeah. Yeah. So, but the other, the other thing you should know about me though is not really about me, but about my wife.
Because you said she was an ophthalmologist, an ocular plastic surgeon, which is true. But she left practice a couple of months ago because, She was elected for the Texas Land Commissioner. Oh my
Catherine Maley, MBA: God. Where was she when you needed help with your, your permits? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Believe me, she, she was the one who reported the people that I needed help with the permits.
Ok. So, yeah. Un unfortunately government officials don't have that much power, but yeah, so, she's, she's a statewide elected official in Texas. She runs, she runs about a two and half billion-dollar 800 employee agency that does all kinds of things that I won't for you with everything from. Disaster recovery to running the Alamo and everything in between.
So, it's actually the office actually predates the governor in Texas, so, so, she's yeah, she's pretty amazing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a pretty big deal. Yeah. Oh, congratulations. So, you're, you're kind of living with a celebrity at this point? Also, how did this affect your decision on buying land & building a practice from scratch?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: A little bit, yes, ma'am.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Can you still go to dinner without being, you know, in a restaurant without being interrupted?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: No, not really. I'm kidding. I mean, occasionally, but Yeah. But, and, and most people are pretty, are pretty cool and respectful, but we definitely see people everywhere we go that, that she knows and, and she of course wants to go up and shake hands and say hi and talk and everything too. But yeah, it's not uncommon for us to have a dinner that lasts an hour and a half and then walking around the restaurant saying hi to people for another hour afterwards.
Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that must be really fun for you. Alright.
Dr. Buckingham, it has been a pleasure having you on Beauty and the biz. I'm so, I just have watched you for decades and you're just doing a killer job on the business side. I'm you know, congratulations on your new building. I know you've got that business plan. I know you've got an exit strategy that you're doing what you need to do.
Terrific. And isn't your website, buckinghamfacialplastics.com?
Edward D. Buckingham, MD: Yes, that is correct.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Okay. All right.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on buying land & building a practice from scratch.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Buckingham, you can reach out to his website at, BuckinghamFacialPlastics.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Buckingham for sharing his experience on buying land & building a practice from scratch.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βBuying Land & Building Practice from Scratch β with Edward D. Buckingham, MDβ.
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#buyingland #buildingapractice #dredwardbuckingham #edwardbuckinghammd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and being in a solo practice within a group practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Solo Practice Within Group Practice β with Sam Jejurikar, MD".
Some surgeons dream of complete autonomy. They want to do whatever they feel like doing without having to answer to executive boards or other surgeons they work under.
They want to set their own hours, hire and fire staff and buy equipment if they feel like it.
They also want to make more money and assume they will in solo practice since they keep all of the profits and not just a percentage.
However, the flip side of that autonomy means they also get to handle their own books and inventory, while also marketing to attract cosmetic patients.
The business and marketing side of plastic surgery can be fun, daunting, uncertain and confusing.
So, is Solo or Group practice better?
Hereβs a unique business model that allows you to run your solo practice as you want, but also enjoy the perks of being under the umbrella of a much bigger practice. Very interesting!
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast was an interview I did with Sam Jejurikar, MD, a board-certified plastic surgeon and a member of the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute
that includes 10 surgeons, 4 ORs, 40 staff in a 45,000 square foot facility.
We talked about their unique business model to buy into the practice but run as a solo practitioner and how they make decisions with so many surgeons involved.
Visit Dr. Jejurikarβs website P.S. Want Catherineβs book for free? Just leave us a review, text (415) 851-0172 and her book is on the way!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Solo Practice Within Group Practice β with Sam Jejurikar, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and being in a solo practice within a group practice. I'm your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them, more patients and profits. And today's guest is Dr. Sam Jejurikar, who is in solo practice within a group practice. Thank you.
He's a board- certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, who has a solo practice within a group practice, and a member of the Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute that performs cosmetic surgery, pediatric plastic surgery, breast reconstruction, and complex wound reconstruction. Now, the institute includes 10 surgeons. The Dallas Day Surgery Center of Cloisters Hope Post-Operative Recovery Facility, and the Epicenter Skincare and Laser Center.
Now, Dr. Jejurikar received his medical degree from the University of Michigan Medical School and has been in practice for more than 20 years, and he also has the most incredible podcast name that I've ever heard. So, we'll talk more about that. And he also is very involved with Smile Bangladesh, so, we'll talk more about that.
Dr. J, thank you for coming on and welcome to Beauty and the Biz to discuss on the topic of being in solo practice within a group practice
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Thanks so, much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, just quickly, can you give us a recap from Michigan? How did you get from there to here? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, after I finished at Michigan, I actually did an aesthetic fellowship at Manhattan Eye Ear. So, I spent a year there and I kind of circuitously wasn't sure where I was going to end up after I was in New York.
And one of the opportunities that, that I had was to join this amazing group, Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute, which, Is, is really kind of unlike many other business models. And I know you've had a lot of solo practitioners on, on the show, but it's, it's basically an opportunity to set up a solo practice within the greater confines of a group practice.
And so, that was 2009 when I made my way to Dallas. And I'd actually had a, had a little stop before that where I was actually in a multi-specialty group for about three years before I came to Dallas. And that was where I realized I really didn't want to work for anybody else. I liked the autonomy of working for myself.
So, I've been, I've been at D Psi ever since. That's how, that's how that all sort of ended up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Then and that's why I wanted you on, because it's so, unique what you're doing and I can't tell what you're doing. It looks like it's an LLC. Then I thought, oh, maybe they're hooked up with the hospital somehow, but then they have a fellowship program and I thought, what, can you just explain your business model? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Cause I don't get it.
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. So, our business model is we are We are basically a confederacy of solo practitioners. We've got in D P S I at this moment in time, we had nine full partners and three associates, all of whom are separate PAs. But we have a common. We have a, a common holdings company that manages our group.
So, we have some economies of scale. We have a business office, which is really robust, which helps all of our individual practices and our, and our entities. We've got some shared front desk employees. We've got shared photography studios and, and, and employees all together. We have about 40 shared employees between all of us.
Then we have our own individual employees as well within our individual pods. And then we have our ancillary businesses. We've got a robust blood ASF certified surgery center that's got four ORs. We've got a really robust skincare laser center called Epicenter. We've had an overnight you know, recovery Center, which is sort of an outpatient recovery center for patients where we kind of teach them how to take care of themselves, or we have four beds as well.
So, we utilize economies of scale to, to run a really efficient solo practice within the greater confines of, of a group practice. So, I feel like I have partners, but at the end of the day, we are competing against each other.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, does any, do the patients realize that you are all individual or do some patients call the center and say, I'd like to book a consult with a plastic surgeon and if so, divvy. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: We don't really have a main number that, that has like a receptionist that divvies that up. Like if you, we, there is, we do have a group website, which is just to have sort of a placeholder. And it hosts our fellowship. So, we have two aesthetic fellows every year. You know, we think we have the best aesthetic fellows aesthetic fellowship in the country.
Everyone. Yeah. And it, and it, and it hosts, it hosts our you know, it's, it's a portal for the fellowship clinic more than anything, but there's not really a central number for people, for people to call. There's a business office. So, every now and then you know, they might in accidentally call the business office, at which point the, the la the way the group's actually set up will, will be explained to them and then, and they need to figure out what doctor they actually want to see.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you own the building or is it lease? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: It's a lease face. It's a, it's a, it's something that we regret in 2008 when we moved to this building, which is in the heart of Dallas. There was an opportunity to buy the building and we did not actually take advantage of that. And so, that's actually a big focus of conversation for the group right now because we're, we're coming to sort of the end of our lease and we're trying to decide do we renew this where we're in such a, you know, fantastic location, or do we, or do we pick up and start all over again?
It's a, it's a huge source of controversy within the group right now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How do 10 surgeons make a decision of that magnitude? So, far we have, I can't imagine. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, I mean like any group, there's some people that take more, more interest than others. Some that are leading the charge, some that are following different, you know, as you've been talking to different surgeons at different stages of their career, ones that are closer to the end of their career aren't particularly excited about doing that.
Ones who are starting their career are very excited about doing that. And so, I don't know what the final resolution is going to be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Give me the pros and cons of this situation, because you were, I guess you'd never really been in solo practice, but you were in a multi-specialty practice. Probably.
How many surgeons were there? Was it a big one? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Oh, I was, I mean, I was with a huge organization there were in, in, in the city that I was in, there was there were about a hundred surgeons altogether for hundred physicians altogether. And then it was part of a much bigger, it was the, it was the Scott White Healthcare system before they merged with Baylor.
So, hundreds, hundreds of doctors. So, yeah. Okay. So, the advantage of where I'm at right now is I have complete auto autonomy to, to run my practice in any way I see fit. I can hire and, you know, hire and fire the employees that I want to. I can market in any way that I want to. I can do the procedures that I, that I want to, but I have the same pressures that anyone in Stella practice does, which is you know, if times aren't as busy, I have to, I have to figure out where my customers are coming from.
So, so, I think the only downside is there's some degree of uncertainty when you're on your own, but I think the, the majority of them are all, are all you know, they're all pluses. It's, it's, it's I mean, I, I think I make a lot more money this way than I, than I did when I worked for somebody else for sure.
So, I mean, I, I think and the other thing, the thing that's different about our solo practice, I know it's been a big topic on your podcast, is about how to exit your practice. Yeah, yeah. So, this is a situation where we're approached by private equity probably once a month about someone wanting to acquire our practice.
No one on the outside really understands what our practice is. What they quickly start to realize is if they, if private equity wants to acquire us, they actually need to talk to individuals within the group. About acquiring their individual practices. Of course, they want our ancillaries as well. And so, we never really get all that far.
The, the, the thing is, is we have an easy way to exit our practice, which is, When we, when we join D P S I, there is a buy-in. There's, there's two sets of buy-ins. There's a buy-in to you know, our, our physical you know, our surgery center to our, to our profit centers basically which is based off of a fair market value.
And then there's also a buy-in to the group itself, which is, there's basically a membership for you to join. You, you pay this membership fee, but you al actually get paid it out as well as you're exiting the group. So, I've paid in my membership fee, but now I'm actually at that phase of my practice where younger guys are actually buying the process of buying me out.
So, when I leave you know, whether it's a, a building that we own or whether it's our lease space, some new associate will probably take my space or they'll hire someone else to do that. So, it does make exiting the practice relatively easy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are there like any disbursements along the way or are you just buying in, doing your thing and then when you and it's time to exit, you just get that big chunk then? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: No, just for tax purposes, we get it as it's being bought in. So, the structure is when people are associates in that first two-and-a-half-year period before they're made a full partner a, a portion of their, of their profits go to the, the partner whose turn is to be bought out. And so, from a tax purpose standpoint, the person who, the partner who's actually getting.
Getting that that distribution pay taxes on it. And so, the group doesn't want to hold onto that money because then it becomes a liability for this holding company, which doesn't really have any income. So, so, in, instead we pay taxes on it and we get it when it comes in. So, even though I'm nowhere close to retiring, I'm fairly close to being already bought out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Very, very interesting. How do you divvy up the overhead? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, I think there's, there's, there's two. There's overhead that's related to our common expenses. So, that's divided. You know, the denominator is a number of partners and that's equally divided. Then there's overhead that's related to our individual pods, my own individual employees, my own individual marketing expenses, my own individual rent for my individual space.
That's my own, my own to pay for. And then we have ownership, you know of our, of our ancillaries. And so, the same sort of deal, it's your, your percentage equity ownership is, you know, what, what you're on the hook for from a liability standpoint.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have to tell you, this sounds like an accounting nightmare.
How are you keeping track of all this? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, we, we have we have multiple accountants that are full-time employees of our practice. It's actually, if you saw our accounting, you'd be blown away by the level of organization. Like we all have. We all have things that we love about T P S I, if you ask. You know, the most senior and well-known partner, Rod Rorick, heβs going to tell you it's the surgery center.
If you talk to other partners, theyβre going to tell you it's our great skincare center for me. Who's, who loves numbers? I think our business office is incredible. And the level of organization and the level of detail that I know every single expense in my office would blow you away. And aren't you very involved in the accounting?
I am, yeah, I got an m MBA and so, I'm, I'm not actually doing the accounting, but I'm overseeing the reports and our analytics that go out every month for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have meetings with each other? Like, I, is it, does it feel like a good comradery there? Does it feel competitive? Like, what is your culture like? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: You know, I think with any large group of plastic surgeons, you deal with enough of them to know that not everyone is best friends with each other, but and we have disparate. Thought processes. There are some different visions for the group among different, different people, but there's a healthy respect for all the partners amongst one another.
I think that's, that's, that's uniformly true. We've got a leadership structure that basically has an executive committee of, of currently four of the partners altogether. I'm one of them. We meet every month. Well, we have a regular standing meeting every month. We have a quarterly meeting of all the partners to talk about.
To talk about bigger issues and if there's pressing issues. I mean, my, the surgery center, I work at my office, space Skincare Center. Everything we do is under the same roof, so, we're always there all the time. Should there be a reason to communicate more often?
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. Do you, if there is you're trying to make a decision, is there a final say? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Is there a dictator there that says this this is how weβre going to do it, or is it a democracy? Are you voting? Because if you have four, what you know, that's, how's that working out?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, so, if we have a two, two tie, it goes to the partnership. We don't, we don't have a dictatorship because we're not, we're not one corporation, you know, we, we, we, that wouldn't work effectively for us.
So, and if it's a big, you know, the, the executive committee of, of the four of us, we tend to make the day-to-day decisions. We tend to do sort of the relatively mundane things. Big group decisions are decided by all the partners.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, the decision you have coming up that has got to be a big deal for you to try to decide, do we stay, do we go, do we, are, are you thinking about buying somewhere else or completely relocating, or are you thinking about just building in how, how many square feet do you need? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, right now we have about 45,000 in the heart of Dallas. But as you know, I mean, if youβre going to think about a time to potentially invest in commercial real estate, yeah. I mean, the market is really depressed right now, right? And so, and so, this wasn't something that had really had really crossed our mind.
More than a few months ago, but there are some opportunities right now. So, yeah, we're having lots of conversations about it. They're, they're healthy productive conversations. We, we have a five-year period of time still before our lease set would actually end. So, so, we're, we're working with a big enough window of time where we're not, we're not rushing into anything.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say though, if you, timing is perfect for a really long lease, if you want to stay put, I go long, long, long. Yeah. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: We're getting some pretty competitive offers. Yeah. Like, we're actually we're getting some pretty competitive in fact, the building that we owned was just sold and they really, I mean, as you know, they really want us, we're their primary lease holder.
So, they're offering us more and more because if they want to turn around and sell the building again, having us locked up. For another 10 or 15 years would make it a much more attractive building for sale. So, we'll see what happens. We don't really know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Out of curiosity, how does the surgery center work? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Do you have blocked surgical times and or are you fighting over them or who gets there first? How does that working first come, first serve?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. And yeah, there's, there's definitely, and it's busy. Thereβre definitely days where I can't. Get on, at least at the times that I want to get on, in which case I have to readjust my schedule to get on, or I have to work at another surgery center.
Many of us have carve outs at other surgery centers that allow us to own a piece of another surgery center as well. So, I'm lucky enough, oh, to actually have an ownership share of another surgery center that's owned by a large hospital system here in town. So, if, if that happens, I, I have another place that I can go to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there an any plans for expanding to more ORs? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, that leads in perfectly into the conversations that we're having about building our own space, because right now we're locked into our building and. There's not necessarily a great way to build a fifth or even sixth or without majorly disrupting operations.
So, yeah, it's a conversation we have all the time. I think our first step though would be before we, before we actually. Before we actually build another or, or two, is we're lengthening the hours of hiring a second shift. So, we're now getting to the point where we have two late rooms that go to later in the evening and, and a second PACU shift that comes on.
So, weβre going to start with that before we start, before we start changing the actual physical infrastructure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's interesting. So, so, like a patient can have surgery at six, at nine kinds of thing. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Maybe not that late. I couldn't go all day. It's definitely like five o'clock. But five o'clock. Yeah. I mean, if we, we can finish at seven, that's our goal.
And we start as early as six 30. Many of the rooms start at six 30 in the morning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay. So, the, so, the exit strategy, when people come on, they're coming out long term, like they're signing contracts that theyβre going to stay put Right. Because that's the way your business model works, but just let's say it, it just didn't work out you know, a personal problem, whatever.
Yeah. How, how do, how do you, how do you unravel some of this if somebody needs to leave or wants to leave? Is there a way out? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, there is. I mean, just like any business or any sort of marriage, sometimes things just don't work out. And we've had this happen before. There's, you know, like many practices, there's a non-compete that's a certain geographic radius.
Ours isn't particularly onerous. I, I don't even know what it is, but I think it's 15 miles. And it's two years. If they want to violate that non-compete, there's a financial penalty that they would pay to stay within that zone. But Dallas Fort Worth is so, large that usually they can find a place within the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex and still not violate their non-compete.
I think we're arrogant enough to think that if you want to leave, we're still going to be fine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think so. So, so, let's talk about that because what was really interesting, I like to check you out as a patient would, as a prospective patient. And so, when I Googled you up comes the main website and what was really interesting was.
They immediately, there's a homepage. It's not fancy at all, it just has a bunch of your pH photos on it, and I just clicked on yours, and the minute I did that, I went straight over to your website and I never came back. Like I couldn't come back to the. The big practice. I, I just stayed with you and I thought that was a really, that was really good because now I can't fiddle around and say, well maybe I'll go to somebody, you know, let me check everybody out.
And so, I Is that what ha that I assume that was on purpose. You know, once they say you, it's you. Right. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: That's right. Our, our, our D P S I website is just a placeholder in case somebody wants to know more about D P S I. It's really common because I think, I think my partner is, Or many of my partners are amazing surgeons and, and it's, I can't tell you, but it happens multiple times a week where a patient's seeing me for a consult and, you know, they may be seeing two other surgeons who they think are, you know, are, are great people in Dallas to have the same thing done.
And it turns out they didn't even realize they were my partners; you know? They were just in the building two days before that and theyβre going to be back the week after or something. So, so, yeah, I mean, in an ideal world, people didn't even recognize that some of these, that some of us are, are, are great surgeons.
I've got, my youngest child goes to a you know, a small private school and, and I can't tell you the number of my wife's friends that I meet at sporting events that are going to one of my partners for surgery. It always kind pains me a little bit. But it also makes me feel good that, that I'm in practice with such good people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. For sure. So, would you say that name has been helpful to you or it doesn't really matter because you're going off of your own name? You're, you're not like trying to ride the coattails of Dallas Plastic Surgery Institute. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: I think it's incredibly helpful. I think I mean I think it, you know, you look at it when you're starting off in practice.
When I came to Dallas, I had no connections to the city of any kind. It gave me legitimacy right away. Yeah. They're like, oh, you went in this group. You must be pretty good. It helps me with, with business contacts and business opportunities because You know, we're a huge contract with Allergan.
We're a top 10 account, we're a huge contract with Citra. We, you know, we, we get approached by a lot of people within the industry who want to, you know, make us a test center for, for something they're doing. So, it, yeah, it's, it's a huge opportunity to be part of this group from an individual marketing standpoint.
Maybe not so, much, you know but, but it is certainly not a harmful thing and, and every other aspect of business is fantastic. So, let's talk about marketing
Catherine Maley, MBA: channels. Your social media. I mean, you've got over a hundred thousand followers. Are you spending a lot of time on content creation for social media or you've got a team doing that, or how's that working out? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Me personally spends very little, spends very little time on it. But yeah, I've got we, you know, we used to work with an outside company. Now it's just redundant internally within the office. Mm-hmm. I think there's different kinds of practices, some practices where they generate a lot of new patients from social media.
Mm-hmm. I don't think I'm probably one of those practices. I think people look at me and they, my social media is just sort of a check mark where they've sort of verified that I'm legitimate, that I. Actually, do exist. I've got plenty of before and after pictures that are on there, and that's how we treat it.
So, I, I don't personally spend a lot of time on it, but, but you know, there's, there's a, an employee in my office who spends half her time filming stuff and putting together videos and things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's what I, I'm, you know what I, my, the answer is it depends. It depends on your personality and your interest and passion for it.
Some of the doctors are just crushing it on Instagram and mm-hmm. But that could also, you know, shut down the minute something happens with Instagram and it goes down, you go down with it. So, that makes me very nervous. I always say to people, make sure you're getting these followers to give you your, their name, cell phone and email in case something were to go wrong because patient plastic surgery and.
And social media do not get along and it's getting worse. So, but if, but if you like doing it, do it. But if you don't, don't be spending two or three hours a day fiddling with it if it's not what you want to do, you know? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. I, I don't think I have the personality that's particularly magnetic for Instagram.
I just recognize that about myself. I think I do great work. So, that's what we focus on there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, me too. I, I, I'm not a social media queen at all. So, let me ask you about patience. How do you see, you know, you've been around for a while. First of all, are the patients getting older and maturing with you?
So, now you're moving from just breast aug to more mommy makeovers and more to facial rejuvenation. Are you doing any of that? And does it feel like the patients are changing? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Let me answer your second question first. Definitely there's, there's a lot of patients that are in my practice that have been with me for 10 plus years.
And so, so as the, those patients themselves are maturing yeah, that what the, I'm, I'm definitely doing more facial aesthetic procedures on them and if I did a breast dog on them before liposuction, now maybe to tummy tuck or a, a bigger mommy makeover. You know, I, I do think though, with it being a major city and a major market, people tend to look for specialists and things.
And so, even though I am, I have a fellowship basically in facial aesthetics. My reputation is for body contouring. I mean, it's for breasts and Tommy's and butts and liposuction, and that's hard to escape. So, I, I do find, That like today, for instance, instead of my patients maturing, I'm operating on children of my patients.
Like today I did, today I did a breast dog and a liposuction case on two different patients, both of whom are the daughters of patients I did like 15 years ago. So, so, maybe it's not maturing, maybe it's just I'm staying in the family. I'm not sure. Okay. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And do you want to stay body?
Because I have, I mean, some plastic surgeons have said to me, I am so, done with the young, silly patient, the breast dog patient who, you know needs to be out at the, the dance club, you know, two days later. And now they're complaining about pain. Like they were just, they had had it with that kind of a patient.
So, they, they did actually transition to face. And the more mature patient the one that cared more about their skill than they did about saving money. And they were ha I mean; I know I can think of at least five. That said, I, I'm happier now because I'm matured, so, I matured the patients as well. And do, do you see that coming?
Or you're fine with all of it? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: I think my price visit matured. You know, I'm definitely not a cheap press augmentation surgeon. You know, I, I think So, I think as my, as my pricing schedule has matured, I mean, I'm pretty happy. I like my patients. I tend to like that. Like I'm not, I'm not feeling this big need to change.
I love doing facial aesthetics. I love doing rhinoplasties. I love doing faceless. I do. It's but I love doing breast surgery and moneymakers and Tommy Tucks as well. I just, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not feeling this huge push to change anything just because I like my day to day a lot. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you are, I mean there, you know, just know thy self.
If you're happy with what you're doing, there's no need to change. Yeah. What about your patients coming back for more? Are you more like a one and done or patience for life philosophy? Where are you at with that? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Definitely a patient for life philosophy. So, I turned 50 next month. So, I'm very much, I think, in that mid-career aspect of my life and I just want to enjoy like every day.
And so, I. Like the thing that my staff complained to me about, I spend a lot of time talking to people. I get to know them really well. It's really common for me to forget the procedure that I've done on them, but I always remember them and details about them. And so, no, I, I, I mean, you know this if you can hold on to your customers that life, that customer lifetime value is so, much more than having to go out and get new ones.
And when you get to know patients that well, and you genuinely like them and, and you do a good job for them, They get very loyal to you and they tend to, they tend to send people your way as well. So, the number one and number two sources of patients in my practice are either return patients or just direct referrals from them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? Do you have any tips for, I mean, honestly, the, the two most important things going for somebody who's looking for you online are your reviews and your photos. Do you have any tips for how you are collecting reviews and photos or having any success? Getting them more often than not. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice? Sam Jejurikar, MD: I think I think the first part is don't delegate it.
You know, people, people are really happy when they're really happy. And you recognize that as, as the surgeon, you know, they, they want to do something nice for you because you've made such a big impact on their life. And sometimes I don't think they realize that it's as simple as doing a Google review.
I mm-hmm. I mean, if you want to do a Google Review for me, that's way more valuable than. Sending me, sending my office cookies, which are just going to make me fatter than I already am. And, and it's cause it's so, good for, for our practice. So, so, initiating that conversation with them yourself, I think is really helpful.
But then having a way to make it really easy. So, we use podium, you know, in our practice. Yes. And they'll just send them a little text message with a link from them, how to do that at some point. And I find that if I ask someone to do it, more often than not, they do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the secret. The, the surgeon has to ask.
They'll get a much better response than the staff. What about the before and after photos? Is that a priority for you to get more of them or what's your feeling on that? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, again, I think one of the huge advantages that I have in being in the group than I am is because we have economies of scale.
We've got a full-time photography staff and we've got. Three photography studios between two different floors with, you know, amazing setups and a great database. So, yeah, I get before and after pictures on pretty much every patient in every visit. And I think I do really good work. Again, if Iβm going to show it, I usually have a conversation with the patient more than just the signed releases, making sure they're okay with it.
And again, more often than not, people in today's day and age, and its still kind of foreign to me, but they want me to show their pictures online to them. That's sort of a sign that I cross some sort of threshold that like they're good enough to, to put on there. And so, I just mentioned, you know, I'll say something like, your results really good.
It'll be really good for my business if I show your results. Are you okay with that? And., They seem to really like that more often, not. Now,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hope everybody heard that the pearl is, you give them a compliment and then you ask for a favor. And it's very simple. The surgeon does it, it's no big deal.
Mm-hmm. And so, many practices still say to me, there's no way my patients will agree to this. They just will not there. It's much too private. And I say, then how do others make it happen? You know, there's such a mindset shift. When you look at your patients as they're partners of yours and they're, you get, you did them a big favor by transforming their life, then they're more than happy.
Many of them are more than happy to re, you know, give it back to you within a review and, and photos. So, I just, yeah, I just start thinking bigger than that, especially social media for heaven's sakes. The stigma is so, Much diminished now from before. Everyone's out there bragging about everything they have. So, I don't buy that anymore that patients are private. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Oh, I totally agree. Patients take a huge sense of pride in knowing that their surgeon is recognized by other people, is being good, and they, they get, they get more intense about it than, than I do. I mean, I, I, I've never been in it, but I, I've learned that there is a Facebook group that has a bunch of my patients that are in it.
And they're really, really just like, they're very, they're like, they're very proud of me and my results and, and then I don't think I have a great social media. Personality, but I think I've got great before and after pictures. I do think I do good work and, and I think that's been great for our practice is showing it and to the point where now very often I'll get a comment from a patient saying, when are you going to put my photos on social media?
And I'm like, I just want your swelling to go down a little bit, but I promise you they'll go on there. Like I, I mean, patients bring it up all the time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, that's fantastic. So, I want to switch gears a little bit because the reason you're on my radar is because I was somewhere probably on Instagram and I saw something called this podcast and it was called Three Plastic Surgeons and a Microphone, and that completely caught my attention and I looked at it, I said, Three surgeons on a microphone regularly.
How did you pull that up? First of all, who came up with the name? Because it's fabulous. And then how in the world do you structure it where three of you are in the same place at the same time, or at least in front of the zoom at the same time? It is very hard to corral you, you people. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. Well, so, the name, my PA actually came up with that name. Her name is Colette Collabro, and we were trying to brainstorm an idea, and I think I had just seen back in concert the musician back and like two turntables in a microphone. She's like, why don't you call three plastics in a microphone? So, that's where that came up from.
The reason why we have an easy time filming it is the other two guys, Sam Re, who's in Bergen County, New Jersey, south Paella, who is in La Jolla, California. We're really good friends. We all train together at the University of Michigan. Sam was one year senior to me; Sal was two years junior to me.
But we're close friends, so, we like each other. We like hanging out, we like we like talking. So, in the pandemic, just like when everyone else was bored and podcasts started just popping up, we. We thought, let's do this. But Sam Re in New Jersey has technologically really savvy. So, he sort of put together, like as we, he, he produces all of them.
He does everything. He does the editing, he does everything. But but he's really savvy at doing all of this stuff. And so, we started doing it in the first few podcasts. We got some pretty big guests. We've got a lot of positive feedback. Then I started getting people that were coming to see me, like from other places in the country who said they found me from the podcast and I wasn't really.
So, then we got, we both, we all, we kind of realized how powerful it could be from a marketing standpoint. So, we kept doing it and it's, yeah, we've gotten a ton of feedback. We've gotten a lot of like; you know feed Spot always Consist consistently ranked us is one of the best podcasts in plastic surgery and.
We just have a lot of fun doing it and, and it's a very efficient thing to do it. We'll typically do it on the weekends. We'll do it on Sunday mornings. We can typically film an episode in 25 to 40 minutes and we'll do three or four at a time and kind of do that once a month.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And the topics, because I can't tell who's your audience, because sometimes you talk about plastic surgery via like the patient, you know, the patient itself.
Then sometimes you have industry people on there. Then sometimes you have colleagues on there talking about like you know, procedures. Who, who are you going for? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Well, no, I think we're just like talking to each other and we're, we're still figuring it out, but Gotcha. No, in all seriousness, its patient driven.
Okay. Cause even when we have industry, it's, you know if we have the ideal implant people on this Yes, I saw that. Yeah, because we're, we're getting a lot of, a lot of patients don't want to know about it and, and Sometimes, I think more often than not, because I'm in d p so, we're all in different sorts of practices.
Sam Re is a true solo practitioner. He's a, he's a one man show. South Paella is the head of plastic sugar group for the Scripps Clinic in La Jolla. So, he's in a, in a, in a very different sort of setting. So, I'm in a group that gets approached by industry all the time. Sometimes it's a way for the other guys to learn about it.
You know, where I'll, you know, I was talking to the CEO of a financing company the other day, and. And learning about some of the things that they're actually doing and, and I ask them to be on a podcast so, the other guys can sort of learn about it. Sometimes it's just each other. We're the audience, but other people find it interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, you're doing it for fun. It's not like a big marketing ploy. How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: It's turned into a big marketing ploy, but we're doing it entirely for fun. Like, I haven't put, we haven't put much money into it at all. We've turned down people that want to do, you know, endorsements or advertising that have approached us for doing it.
Mm-hmm. I definitely get customers from it, but I have no way to track those metrics. But we're doing it for fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: We love you. That's the only thing I don't like about podcasting. You can see numbers, but you can't see the details of the numbers. And that just drives me nuts is I think, who are these people watching this?
You know? And I, I, yeah, I have to count on them to like text me or deem m me or do something to tell me who you are. So, ah, that's a little infuriating, but there's no, I don't know how else to do it other than. Just keep saying, come to my website www.CatherineMaley.com and tell me who you are, you know? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I definitely know when I get a, someone in my office who's a patient who's blown from another state to come see me and they say, I saw you on your pod on, on the podcast, and I knew I wanted you to be my surgeon. Those are the best consultations. Cause as you imagine, you already know they're going to, they, they feel like they already know you.
Yeah. They know your philosophy about things. Theyβre going to pick you to be your surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, but that's a 95% conversion rate. I don't know why everybody just doesn't make their life easier. And try the relationship kind of selling first, you know people who already come. No, you like, you trust you.
They come ready to say yes. All you have to do is not screw it up. You know, like they're, they're ready. I so, much easier than, than that stranger patient, that internet, stranger patient, you know, with their arms crossed, saying, who are you? What do you, don't try to oversell me, you know? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Yeah, exactly. Hundred percent agree.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, so, well, we have to talk about smile Bangladesh because that, oh my gosh. I, it's like tear jerking. I saw one Instagram post and oh, the little girl who is holding up her picture of her as a baby, as with a cliff palate, and she looked fantastic now, and I'm thinking, girl, you don't know how lucky you are.
Like, wow. I mean, that was life changing. So, what, what's that all about? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: So, it's a, it's a group based out of New Jersey. The founder of the group is an oral surgeon. He's really well known in the oral surgery world. A guy by the name of Shahi Azi, when I met Shahi, he was the he was on staff at U M D N J.
He's over the, he's now moved over to Hackensack, but back then, this was more than 10 years ago. The, the cranial facial surgeon at U M D N J was Sam Re my colleague from oh three pack Surgeons and a microphone. And, and on the very first small Bangladesh trip that went, it was Shawhead Sam and a couple of nurses.
And on the second or third trip Sam invited me along. So, so, I went obviously I'm, as you know, I'm great friends with Sam Marie, but Shahi and I hit it off really, really well. So, they kept asking me to come back. So, for every, for You know, at least once a year for the first seven or eight years, I would go and I would operate and got more and more involved.
And, and, and at some point, I actually got, they asked me to be on the board of directors. And, and it's grown. The organization, the organization has grown from being a really small endeavor to being huge, huge group. Shahi is built and, and CHAI's story is really interesting. He. He his son was a or his father was a really prominent infectious disease doctor from Bangladesh.
Shawhead had never even been to Bangladesh, but when his father unfortunately passed away, he just told him to never forget where you came from. So, SHA head Made it his mission and he funded this, this organization. And the, the trips now are usually two-week endeavors. The first week they're doing orthotic surgery.
The second week they're do, we're doing clef surgery and I don't do orthognathic surgery. So, I'll go in and I'll do a bunch of clef surgery. And then we come back and, and it's an, it's, they're very emotionally therapeutic. Life-affirming sorts of trips because you'll be people that just have nothing and they are so, grateful that you're providing these services to them.
And so, they've been incredible experiences for me. I've gotten to take one of my kids with me, my, my middle son who's a freshman in college now. And it was a huge life changing experience for him. I look forward to taking my youngest son with me in in a few years. It's just, it's been, it's been amazing for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I talk about a different perspective. Everybody who lives in America, who's complaining needs to go see the alternative and be a lot more grateful, you know, than they are anyway. So, any, any comments like any advice for others coming up in the, in the industry or anything you want to, any 2 cents you have that was helpful advice when you, that you were given? How did this influence your decision to have your solo practice within a group practice?
Sam Jejurikar, MD: You know what I think advice that I've heard all the time, but I kind of disregarded. Because it just didn't seem practical enough was to just do what you love. Oh, okay. And to build a practice that you want, because it doesn't seem like worth, if you are doing the procedures, you want to, you know, you want, if you are spending the amount of time you want, like, like in our group, there are guys that make, that, make more.
There are guys that make less, there are guys that see three times the number of patients. There are guys that see a third of the number of patients and, and ultimately, Just deliver really good patient care. Figure out what works for you. And I don't know any plastic surgeons that aren't successful. I mean, everyone, right?
Everyone has varying degrees of success, but ultimately it won't seem like work if you, if you build a practice that you want and you do the things that you want to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Such good advice. And the last question, tell us something we don't know about you.
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Don't know about me. Well, I've got three kids, one of whom is a junior in college and one of whom is in kindergarten, and there's one in between.
So, I'm never going to be without children. Same the. No. Okay. So, so, I guess the bit of advice is when your second wife tells you they don't want to have any more kids, that may or may not be true, but, but it's a, it's a great thing and it keeps you young for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You got to get that in writing. Yeah. So, well, thank you so, much for coming on Beauty in the Visit.
Really appreciate it. I hope to meet you someday. I, you know, at a conference or wherever. And someday, boy, I'd love to see your practice. I tried to do a tour of your office, and it's just, it's big. You, you have quite an impressive location there.
Sam Jejurikar, MD: Nice. Well, you're welcome. Anytime. Just let us know when you want to come.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so, much. And Dr. J, how can they reach out to you if they want
Sam Jejurikar, MD: to? Probably the best way is via Instagram. They can DM me @SamJejurikar.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sam Jejurikar, I like your name. It's catchy, once you get used to it, Jejurikar.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on βsolo practice within a group practiceβ.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Jejurikar, you can reach out to his website at, DallasPlasticSurgery.pro.
A big thanks to Dr. Jejurikar for sharing his experience on being in solo practice within a group practice
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βSolor Practice Within Group Practice β with Sam Jejurikar, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #catherinemaley #catherinemaleymba
#drsamjejurikar #samjejurikarmd #plasticsurgeonsolopractice #solocosmeticsurgeon #soloplasticsurgeon
Letβs face it. Times have changed.
Itβs way too competitive to be mediocre. Itβs also way too costly to attract new patients so you canβt afford to lose them.
I know youβre painfully aware of how difficult itβs gotten to convert prospective patients due to the insane amount of competition and information available.
This creates confusion and fickle prospective patients who know if they donβt like their experience with you, they can always call one of your many competitors.
However, this is actually an opportunity for you to step up and be better than your competitors, so they choose you.
But hereβs the harsh realityβ¦
Itβs not enough to have a gorgeous expensive website do all the heavy lifting for you.
Itβs also not enough to automate everything (even though that would be great). Chatboxes, Auto-responders, follow up funnels and artificial intelligence are helpful, for sure, but they have their own limitations.
Remember you are in the people business. People with credit cards who want to look good and feel great. People with emotions such as skepticism, fear, hope, trust or distrust.
These people who are using their own disposable income want customer service. They want to feel heard and significant. They want to know you care.
Chatboxes and autoresponders do not give them those warm, fuzzy feelings. People do.
So, in this podcast, Iβm going to show you how to convert more cosmetic patients without spending more on advertising or hiring more staff or adding more technology.
Problem Letβs first start with this question...
If you were to listen in on new caller leads your receptionist was handling, would you smile with satisfaction listening to her professionally credential you and book the consultation orβ¦.would you cringe hearing her lose the callers and hurt your image all at the same time?
When you ask your receptionist about it, donβt they often say the callers were just price shoppers and werenβt serious about moving forward?
And, Does this sound familiar:
You do a string of consultations that you βthoughtβ went well.
The prospective patients you met with were engaged and interacting with you.
You were sure many of them would book.
However, when you ask your coordinator how the consultations went, she tells you:
- "Oh, they had to think about it."
- "They were going on other consults."
- "They had to check their schedule."
- "They have to save up."
So now youβre either questioning yourself or your staff or the patients.
Is it something you said or did?
Is it something your staff said or did?
Are patients today ridiculous and youβre ready to throw in the towel?
Itβs so deflating putting in so much time and effort, only to NOT get the result you expected.
So now you decide to either spent even more on advertising to get more leads or you fire your staff or you do nothing and hope next month is better.
Instead, here are some insights that should help:
Agitate I have trained hundreds of receptionists and coordinators from around the world and hereβs what I know for sure:
Every practice has money-losing holes in their practice bucket (some practices have more than others) and the most common are disappointing conversion rates.
And, even the most seasoned staff could use improvement. Actually, the seasoned staff has been around for the good times, when it was a lot easier to convert callers and consults so they may have trouble adjusting to this increasingly competitive landscape where they need to learn new skills and strategies to keep up.
Frankly, too often the staff is winging it. They just say whatever comes to mind and that leads to them talking too much and confusing the patient and a confused patient is a no so thatβs not a good approach.
Because itβs astonishing to discover the reality of lost revenues leaking out of your practice that add up big time.
For example, if your receptionist loses 1 caller per day that was worth $2K and you multiply that by 5 days per week and 50 weeks per year, thatβs a whopping $500K per year and letβs say you see:
- 12 consults per week
- 40% Close Rate = 5 Booked Procedures
- X 50 weeks per year @ $8K Average Procedure = $2MM
This sound good UNTIL you do the math on the other 60% who did NOT book.
That number of lost revenues is $2,800,000! Yikes!
This is unnecessary and also easy to remedy.
Here is The #1 Tip to Convert More Callers
Prepare your staff to answer the callerβs question, βHow much is it?β
So often, callers have only one question when they call your office and that isβ¦
How much is it?
Oftentimes, you donβt tell them. Your receptionist says, βthe surgeon must examine you firstβ and then youβll get a quote.
That used to work before, but in todayβ world with so much information available, that can feel evasive or defensive to the caller so they end the call.
Or, you tell them the price and they hang up, never to be heard from again.
Hereβs a better approachβ¦
The reason they are asking about price is because they are not considering anything else but price.
They have commoditized your services and βassumeβ they can get the same service and result no matter who they choose.
But maybe in the past, when they had chosen a cheaper alternative, they were dissatisfied because they had to wait, the staff was rude, it was painful, nobody seemed to care, they were underwhelmed with their result and their experience.
So, itβs vital you educate callers what else they should consider that goes into it than just price BECAUSE they donβt knowβ¦.until you tell them.
Prepare your staff to βPre-Frame Before Priceβ by bragging about you and the practice BEFORE stating the price. Now the caller has more to consider than one price variable. For example,
- Youβve performed more than 4,500 surgical procedures
- You have a no wait policy
- You offer pain free treatments and/or
- 1st time callers get a special gift card or goody bag
If you have trouble coming up with your brag points, think of all the complaints you get, fix them and they become your bragging points to tell the caller.
And, hereβs The #1 Tip to Convert More Consultations.
Set your coordinator up to be seen as βThe Aesthetic Advisorβ and NOT βThe Closerβ
When you buy a car at the dealership, you are often sent to an office to meet with βThe Closerβ to talk about the numbers and the terms.
It can be stressful because the negotiator may be pressuring you to add on tinted windows, leather seats, etc.
This is NOT a fun experience and can leave you feeling victimized, or you may just leave because you are uncomfortable with the set up.
The same happens in a typical plastic surgery consultation. The patient meets with the doctor and then is sent to βThe Closerβ, otherwise known as your patient coordinator, to discuss fees and dates.
The prospective patient has never met or talked to the coordinator; yet, they are expected to review the quote, agree to the terms and put down a depositβ¦.all is a matter of minutes.
This is not a comfortable experience for either the patients or the coordinator. Thatβs why the patient so often says, βI have to think about itβ or βI have to talk my husband.
A better approach is to set up a process so the patient and coordinator converse ahead of time so they have a chance to bond BEFORE meeting face-to-face.
You do that by sending a personalized welcome letter from the coordinator, then she calls to introduce herself and then sends text reminders using her name.
These several points of contact help the patient and coordinator bond ahead of time and that makes it a much more comfortable and effective consultation that actually books!
The Offer If this has helped you see how nuances make all the difference in converting callers and consultations, youβll want to check out The Phone Club for Receptionists and The Converting Club for Coordinators at www.catherinemaley.com for a lot more strategies to transform your coordinator into a confident coordinator who converts 30-50% more consults professionally and your front desk staff will convert up to 30% more callers within 48 hours using proven scripts and strategies.
Go to www.CatherineMaley.com for details.
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#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #catherinemaley #catherinemaleymba
#convertmorepatients #convertmoreconsults #convertcosmeticpatients
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the future of cosmetic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "The Future of Cosmetic Surgery β with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD".
While speaking at this yearβs AACS conference, I heard a surgeon give a talk called βThe Future of Cosmetic & Plastic Surgery: Consolidation and Successβ.
He was saying how difficult it is for a new surgeon, oftentimes saddled with up to $500K in loans, to borrow more money to open their own practice or buy into someone elseβs, when they enter the marketplace.
He went on to talk about new hybrid scenarios that work well for the up-and-coming surgeon looking for autonomy and support, as well as the mature surgeon contemplating a profitable exit.
Since this is a hot topic lately, this Beauty and the Biz episode is an interview I did with that speaker. Itβs Dr. Erik Nuveen, a cosmetic surgeon running a multi-surgeon, 10,000 square foot private practice located in Oklahoma, OK; which is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery.
We talked about how he bought someone elseβs practice (with a shoddy reputation) and built it into an 8-figure practice, while performing 2,240 surgeries per year.
And, how Dr. Nuveen is using the art of consolidation to reduce redundancy and change the landscape of solo cosmetic practices.
Visit Dr. Nuveen's' website P.S. Want Catherineβs book for free? Just leave us a review, text (415) 851-0172 and her book is on the way!
π² If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
The Future of Cosmetic Surgery β with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and a Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the future of cosmetic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. I have a really special guest today.
His name is Dr. Erik Nuveen. Now, he's a cosmetic surgeon, who is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery, in a multi-surgeon, 10,000 square foot private practice called Cosmetic Surgery Affiliates, and it's located in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, which I've actually had a chance to visit this year for the first time in my life, and it was really nice.
So, this eight- figure, practice, which is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery, includes face, breast, and body surgical procedures performed by four surgeons in their two onsite operating rooms, which are fully accredited and AAAHC certified. Now, they also offer a plethora of nonsurgical treatments performed by many ancillary staff in their med spa, as well as online store that carries their own skincare line.
Now Dr. Nuveen and I crossed paths very recently. We were at the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgeons annual meeting in San Diego and Dr. Nuveen we were in the practice management session and after I spoke, then I listened to Dr. Nuveen's talk and his was entitled, "The Future of Cosmetic and Plastic Surgery: Consolidation and Success". So, this happens to be a really hot topic lately, so, I wanted to get his take on it because he's very immersed in it and like I said, heβs embracing the future of cosmetic surgery.
So, Dr. Nuveen, thank you so, much for coming on to Beauty and the Biz.
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's an honor, it's always I donβt know, may, maybe it's a point of retrospect and, and life, but to, to hear the things that I've done is kind of weird to listen. It just you know, I started off when I was six and always wanted to do surgery.
My father was an orthodontist and oh, He straightened teeth, and that was wonderful to change the perspective and often the self-esteem of o often adolescences. But at the end of that, I was always frustrated with my dad because he couldn't fix their nose or their chin. Oh. And that's really where it started.
And you know, today after finishing, you know, 14 years after college and. And eight, nine years of residency and fellowships. And then 21 years of clinical practice, it's like a blink of an eye. And I, I know I, I sound like a broken record for us that are adding up some years, but what I think what's been kind of special about my situation is when I finished up a full formal fellowship and face end body cosmetic surgery in Salt Lake City, Utah.
I had also finished a year of cranial facial surgery at Toronto Sick Children's Hospital. So, I had a pretty unique bunch of skills and also medical and dental degree. Prior to, I did a total of two years of general surgery. So, it was interesting because I, I had also along the way had taken a little time to fly some airplanes and so, I figured, well, gosh, how can I involve myself with a hobby with a skill to help others and to improve the standard of care throughout the country?
And I, I, I take that statement very seriously. That was my objective and it still is to this day to try to improve each and every day. And I hope when I do exit. That it will be at the top of the game and, and I'm always looking forward to that because each day seems to be a better day. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I finished my fellowship and I came to Oklahoma City.
I picked Oklahoma City because the cost of living here was very low. And the opportunity to start off day one in a 10,000 square foot facility that I purchased was not Something I could do in downtown Manhattan, right? Or other major metropolitan areas. So, I live about eight minutes from my office and 12 acres and nice countryside and quiet with coyotes and hawks and owls.
And it takes me 10 minutes to commute to see patients, and it's just been a fantastic choice. It is the middle of the country, so, fortunately I get to use my airplane and go and visit the ocean often. And so, the practice really started there in Oklahoma City and I took over a preexisting doctor's practice.
He was 71 and did exclusively breast surgery. And I saw an opportunity to expand that practice. And fortunately, God willing it did. And so, I purchased that practice from an individual, kind of the old school method, a handshake, a, a gratitude, and pat on the back and. And there I started and did β
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, were you in a different building? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes. Yeah. From the, from, so, he was in a smaller facility and shared with an ophthalmologist oculoplastic eye. Mm-hmm. And that relationship couldn't have lasted too long. Cause I really needed to grow and I needed multiple operating rooms to do what I had set my heart to do. So, my, my plan from day one was to come into the community meet all the other surgeons that did similar things and.
And opened the door for growth. And ultimately, I, I set the bar high. I want it to be the most dominant practice in this region of the country. And I, I think statistically we've been able to achieve that. I do. About, can, can I ask you something? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Out of curiosity, what exactly did you buy? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Because, what did he have that you wanted of value? Was that a shortcut to get into the community or what? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. So, you know, there's an exchange in life, right? You know, you, you ask for, you have communication, you hope for a response. And in the relationship with the physician was this gentleman wanted to exit and I wanted to come in.
Mm-hmm. And he had a patient flow volume of about 750 patients a year. He did a very high volume of breast augmentation and he was very consistent year in, year out. He didn't offer almost any other procedures. So, I saw an opportunity there just in the patient flow volume to expand, and it did. So, we sent out letters to 6,500 pre previous patients and inform them of our expanded services and an opportunity to meet with me and.
So, the first month I was in practice I did 57 major surgeries and I've never slowed down.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And did you two, like were you feeding off of his credibility? Did he have to stay put for, for a while for the patients to get used to the transition or how did that work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, that's, that's a really variable answer if you're speaking to the general public on that topic because it's all about personality will determination.
Effort and I hope good counsel. I think that's an often-overlooked commentary is you, you need to, don't, don't do things foolishly because you think it's the right thing to do. There's been other people there before you and you really should ask some good questions and don't be afraid to hear constructive criticism.
It's, it's very common to think that doctors have done very well in school and that that translates into financial or good decision making, and it doesn't always. So, we have to admit that first and foremost, have the insight that the others have been there and let's get some good advice. So, for, in my situation, I was taking over a gentleman's practice who.
Had done almost 20 years of exclusively breast surgery. So, we had a very long proven statistical track record, and I'm very data driven. So, I did a lot of spreadsheets and demographics, co, you know, cost of living, cost of employment, and the goals that I set for myself and my business, and kind of predicted in a business plan exactly what I thought would happen.
And it's actually remarkable how close I was over a 20-year period to exactly what I predicted. It's actually freaky weird. I was off by less than a hundred thousand dollars in, in, in all the categories, which is pretty, pretty amazing actually.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But did he stay put like did you two work together or did he pretty much exit and you entered? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, I made a very thought-out contract. There were some issues related to his history that I needed to insulate myself from and isolate myself from. So, I did that legally. And he worked about two hours. And then he was released from that obligation. And then I took it from there. And at that point, I had come down two times during my fellowship met patients, knew I was on good, solid ground of communication and I was willing to take that gamble.
So, he exited immediately and I took it over from there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, again, out of curiosity because these are the kinds of things people want to know about. Yeah. If you're taking over somebody's practice who might have some reputation issues or maybe some bad reviews, do you, how do you handle that? Do you just change the name and hope nobody notices, or what do you do? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Yeah. Well, you over his website with his SEO of 20 years of rankings, or how does that work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. You know, today's a different era. Yeah. You know, it's 21 years down the, down the road since then. But at that point we did surveys. We sent out surveys to patients. We asked local doctors, because I did communicate with every other plastic surgeon here in Oklahoma City.
Not always to the most welcome response, but they gave me enough ammunition, fuel, and, and energy to try to approach. The challenges and also received the benefit. And the benefit was just a phone number and a website and that. Statistical demographic that was reaching out was very consistent.
And even though there were negatives and I, I have yet to meet a doctor in the country that didn't have a negative of some sort. Right, right. There are risks and sometimes we take those calculated risks and I, I think if we're, we're a wise person, we're going to really investigate background checks histories, people, they're cavorting with their associations, their friends.
It was, my situation was abundantly clear. There were some significant challenges, and I have to say, if I asked 10 of my colleagues, they might have questioned my judgment, but I just looked at the demographics. There was, there was such strong patient flow and opportunity in that patient flow that I, I went for it and, and it was a good choice.
But how does that translate to other doctors? Excellent background. Listen to others, get experts, get lawyers, get accountants. You need to surround yourself by people you trust to the end. I mean, like people you'd give your kidney to if they needed it. You, you really have to have that level of faith because these people are giving guidance about your career.
And to take it lightly is a fool's errand for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What would you say is one of the biggest mistakes made that now you look at back at now and say, gosh, I wish I had avoided that one. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I got to be honest with you, maybe I'm, maybe I'm just blissfully happy, but I can't think of a single significant mistake that I made at all.
I mean, it, I really, it, it has been an unbelievable career. Unbelievable. And. Sure there are things I'd, I'd regret taking on too. Challenging a case at too earliest stage in my career. Mm-hmm. I'm definitely guilty of that and thinking that maybe sometimes I have more answers to a problem than I. I rightfully should have.
Mm-hmm. And those can bite you. But you know, it's experience just leads you to those types of mature answers and inexperience leads you to immature answers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how long were you in practice before you bought that 10,000 square foot building? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh, I actually bought it before I started, so, I, I, I had made some pretty savvy investments during residency and I saved up a great deal of money.
So, I had no debt. I paid off all my student loans and I had enough money to go in and, and pursue loans. And this was a different time. I mean, gosh forbid a person leaves a residency now with four or $500,000 of debt. I mean, they've got a doctor, doctor at a, at, you know, after their name and that used to buy you, you know, a million-dollar loan just for the handshake and a signature.
Those days are long gone. And it's really an interesting time, which really leads us to the issues of consolidation. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How did you know that you, were you, so, you knew you were trying to build an empire, like you weren't getting around like you, or were you thinking about renting it out to others? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Did you know you were going to fill that building up? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, well, you know, my mom says things to that I'll quote often, and I know she'll listen to this podcast, so, she'll probably get a little teared in her eye. But when I was a little kid, my, my mom always said he's full of grandiose ideas. We'll see what happens.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Famous last words, huh? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I've heard over and over from people and I surveyed as many people as I could find. I went all over the United States, never spared a vacation to, to go to a surgeon and spend time with them. I mean, I missed, I. Almost 10 years of vacation because every vacation was used to advance myself and my career for my patient's benefit.
So, I I had a lot of information, a lot of experts out there, very famous people. I could just run-down a, a lengthy list. And they, the con the con consensus was a few things. No matter how big the space you get, you'll fill it. Just watch, it'll happen. And so, I took that to heart and came to Oklahoma where things were a little bit cheaper and started day one at, with 10,000 square feet.
And, and now we have another facility in Jacksonville, Florida that's going to arrival at, so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. And then when did you start adding other surgeons? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I was in practice for three years before I took our first fellow, and so, I would. Count that as my first experiment with having another full-time doctor with me.
And that was a great experience. And so, I've had. 15 fellows. Now we have one every six months now. Those fellows are all over the country from Seattle to Scottsdale to Park City and down in Florida. And so, that's been a great journey. I, I would say that is a really nice way to bridge the gap from independent practice to developing physician relation skills.
When you're isolated in a practice, there are some strengths that come from that autonomy, but also some weaknesses that develop and that dictatorial unilateral approach to decision making can be a very challenging problem in, in various social arenas. So, I would attribute that first step of growth to fellowship training and devoting oneself to the education and betterment of someone else is, is a, is a really true altruistic art.
Mm-hmm. So, I would say there, now my first associate was 2007. So, I was in practice four years and took on a gentleman for two years. We knew his pathway was to leave, but we were fortunate to have him for two years, and that gave me another stepping stone towards longer term relationships. And I, I'm still learning to this day.
I don't have all the answers. I. But I will say that there, I think there's three categories of doctors you work with. There's a doctor who's very skilled, very capable, and very good, and is just trying to bridge that gap of independent practice from residency, for example. And they're strong enough and good enough that they're going to try to fight it and do it, do it themselves.
Some of those doctors will see value in associating with another doctor and others will not because they're so, capable and skilled. That's one type of doctor and they take a different approach and a different mentality and a different communication style. The next doctor is a doc. Our doctor is a doctor, is completely on the other end of the spectrum, and that's a doctor who doesn't want to own anything, doesn't want to run anything, and just wants to show up.
And they literally don't want to manage. Even the thought of management is, is just makes them almost sick to their stomach. And those doctors are really interesting because you can almost plug and play. You can have a system do consultations, plug in the doctor, minimize their interaction. Quite honestly, because often they're not the most robust in their skillset and succeed very well because if they show up and are happy to do two or three surgeries a day, I mean, they're thrilled to go home.
And maybe that, that term that sometimes confuses me work-life balance, which I don't have. That, that's the third type of doctor. The intermediate doctor is the doctor that I really strive for. But I'll take anybody, I mean, I, I'm not going to say that we have a specific type of doctor that we're looking for because honestly, all of them can work well.
It just. Listening to them, understanding them and respecting their skillset and their what they're really looking for in their lives. So, that intermediate doctor is a doctor that wants their input heard. They want to be respected. They want to add to the quality of the practice or the contribution factor they want to contribute.
Yet they don't want to overly be involved with the bills. And negotiating contracts with anesthesia departments, it's just not what they want to do. So, those are the three kinds of broad-based categories of doctors I deal with, and all of them can be appreciated and all of them fit into a system. You just have to respect their differences.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, acknowledge them. Because I think a lot of doctors aren't aware of which box, they fit in. Mm-hmm. Because some of the doctors actually, some of the I'll just generally speaking, yeah. The younger patients don't, or the younger doctors don't know anything about business and they've never had to come up with patients in a marketing plan and paying bills and being at risk. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Yeah. So, they come on a little strong and not be naively, you know, and then there's the older doctor who might be burned out. But, but not willing to relinquish control so, that there's nothing easy about that. I'm sure you take your time, you know vetting these people, right? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's, it's really interesting.
It, it's a, it has to be thought of, in my opinion much more fragile than a marriage. I know there's analogies often made, but. I mean, it's pretty easy to get out of a business situation, and it's, it's much more financially challenging to exit a marriage having been there. So, I, I, I would say that identifying egos who needs to be praised?
What, you know, what are their love languages? I mean, it's truly a tort of force of intellectual psychological assessment and appreciation on both sides. I mean, we have to respect each other. We have to show that respect, but constructively, we have to give guidance. I mean, it's really awesome. I mean, talk about fulfilling.
I mean, this type of, of business relationship is just amazing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I've seen some practices that are a true democracy. Mm-hmm. They meet, but they meet every week. They have the same values. They have honed this. Mm-hmm. I know a practice who has kind of like a coach and the coach keeps everyone on task. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Mm-hmm. Just in case things, they don't want any big problems that are factoring and they're not talking to each other, so, they really take it seriously. And, and they have a beautiful, profitable practice. Mm-hmm. And then others are just a dictatorship. They just, they. They hire some surgeons and they say, I'm running the show. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
You just show up and, and appreciate that, and that's it. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Right. Right. Yeah. And, and yet there is room for all. I mean, there's enough to go around. Mm-hmm. And the greediness and, and the you know, to, to think that you're the only one to do it. The only way is just foolish.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I've been doing this for a long time and I've never heard the same story twice. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
You know, there's no one way to do this. That is for sure. I'm just loving all the creativity that is coming about, that's evolving and that's why we're talking about this. But yeah, if I'm not mistaken though, when I was listening to you speak, do you have 39 staff people? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Let's see this week. And that's a, that's a, a laugh, but also the truth.
It does vary quite a bit. We have. We have one person two people kind of exiting. We have three coming on. That's normal. That's a normal week. So, we have a very open-door policy. I say the same thing every year at a Christmas party. I say, listen guys, whenever you want to leave, it's perfectly fine with us.
Don't ever feel like you got to be the last one in the, in the building. I just thank you for coming. Thank you for being a part of our employment. And just have a good time and leave whenever you feel darn good and ready. Don't, don't feel bad. And I kind of keep that same philosophy in the office. We tell people when they're hired, listen, we're, we're here in this life for a certain amount of time.
You may be here for a long time; you might be here a very short time. Don't ever feel bad about it. Always address things up with honesty and forthrightness. And if things aren't going well or you're seeing things differently, we need to hear about it. Let's just be open about this. Immature adults. And so, we do have a fair amount of turnover in our office, which is both financially challenging and functionally challenging.
So, we've chosen kind of a redundancy and an overlap in employment that allows kind of a rotational cycle of employees. So, I have a set of employees that I work with primarily. Of course, I like to call them "The A-Team", but. They're really just a group that, that has piled around with me, knows my habits, knows my mannerisms, and we work really well together.
So, we work together three days a week. We, we typically do 12 hours a day, three days a week. And we start at six 30 and yeah, usually finish around 7 30, 8 o'clock at night and no, I take no lunch. So, talking about work-life balance. Yeah. I'm not the model of that. I love my work, love my work. I make no excuses about it.
I am no balance whatsoever. Work, work, work. Because I love work and I figure I want to work. And if I die at work, that's okay with me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Good attitude. Do you, hopefully you give them lunch, right? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes, yes. As what's required. But I, it's so, funny because you know, people of personality types, they tend to congregate.
We like to hang around with each other and you know, we have a certain type of humor and we have a certain type of music we listen to. And it tends to be that these young ladies work their living butts off. Cause they love that I do. Nice. So, we're all, it's like a bunch of pigs and mud. I mean, we all love rolling around in it.
So, they take very little launch, often don't take lunch, they'll snack on something. They kind of mop about it, but they also are kind of proud about it and mm-hmm. So, my little set team is they're amazing and I'm very happy for, but we're just one small part of the big group. We have a, we have a big administrative group.
We have a very big IT division, which. I mean, I, I could just talk for hours about just our 13 different IT groups that we work with. It's craziness.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And are you planning, do you go for patients all over Oklahoma? All over the nation? All over the world? Well, where, where are you going with that? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Where are you? I mean, are all these, like the, those breast dogs, was he getting all those just in Oklahoma City? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. The so, the, my predecessor, the person I purchased the practice from was, was a, a, a very unique individual. He decided to basically do the Walmart service, so, he did, it was $2,800 cash breast augs saline only, cash only.
And he did four a day, five days a week. So, that's not a bad business model. No, no. He did very well financially. Mm-hmm. You know, there, there were some unscrupulous issues and there were some, some financial misappropriations that occurred.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the cats only probably was a hint there. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Anyway, but we don't run our, our business like that. So, our, our business is, you know, absolutely to a t run properly. And, and so. What is our recruitment? Honestly, we try to focus on the central Midcentral United States. We do get patients, word of mouth, friends, et cetera, that come from all over the country.
We have a very large military presence here in Oklahoma, so, we have a lot of people that relocate to Japan, Germany, Italy those are the big ones, and all over the United States on a different military basis. So, that has been a big area of contribution to the practice success. But really, I, I think it's been 21 years of, of tremendous service and being available to the patients.
I, so, 21 years ago I made my own website. Mm-hmm. I did it over Thanksgiving. Weekend it cost me 25 cents. Nice. And I started something I'd never heard of and I did, made an online form entry and completely, there was no HIPAA and so, they just sent me pictures. And so, I was getting, you know, pictures of people, body parts from all over the country all the time.
And I was inundated. So, I had never heard of anybody ever doing this before. And you know, of course things have advanced to all the encryption and HIPAA policies and now almost everybody has an online form entry system. Mm-hmm. But you know, 21 years ago it was unheard of. I certainly never heard of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that was a big deal 21 years ago. Good for you. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh yeah, we were doing 20, 25 cases a month purely from, without ever visiting with a patient. The patient would come in from out of town, we'd see him the day before, we'd do the consultation, then we'd do the surgery the next day. So, yeah, it was just I have to say that that concept came from a, another doctor who I met in Connecticut, and he was doing that for wisdom teeth removal.
And just inundated. And I thought, hell, why not try that in our business? And sure enough, it was a, a tremendous boost.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's how I've grown my own business. I always looked at all the other industries and I said, how can I adapt that to our industry here? And it's all y all you have to do is be a little creative and say, how could we do that here? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
And yeah. Now you also have an online store, a skincare line. You have your own skincare line with an online store where they can shop. I'm always curious about that. Is it a good profit center? Is it a pain in the neck? Who's doing the fulfillment? You know, I never, I, I'm not a fan, but, but does it work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: I mean, yeah. Well, first of all, I, I think you have to have a passion for whatever element of the practice your endeavor might be. So, for me, I'm a surgeon. I do surgery morning, noon, and night. I hire people that have passions for things that I don't have a passion for. So, I have an aesthetician that does all the aesthetic services.
I have two nurse practitioners. That primarily do non-surgical things and supervise my clinics. I have a skincare person that deals with most of the retail services. Is it a profit center? Sure. It makes a profit. You know, I mean, it's probably 50% margins on everything we sell, but, you know, as far as a comparative, I mean, just to use real numbers and I hope that's okay.
I'm always very transparent about, about the practice. You know, selling $10,000 a month of skincare products is, you know, that's $5,000 a profit. That's pretty darn good for buying hamburgers and shoes for your kids.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm okay with that. As long as you don't lose focus on the big-ticket items. I find that the vendors or sta like estheticians take it very seriously, but I just, I watch the balance of how many are, how much of your resources are going into that when it becomes only one or 2% of your overall revenues good. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
That money have been made. Easier or elsewhere, or that, that's my only comment there. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: You have. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very, it's a very good point. And you know, some of the consulting services will focus on the quote, the, the money left on the table, right? Yes. That's the common statement. Well, you're leaving money on the table, right?
I mean, that's a term that I just want to choke people out for. Because you're absolutely right. If you have no passion for it, if you have no business doing it, please don't do it. Yeah, you're going to waste energy, time, frustration, managerial nightmares, legal liability. I mean, I could go on and on. If you are really good at something, I think you should do it all the time.
Because you're going to make much more money at it. You're going to enjoy your life. And I don't worry one bit about my skincare related services, because I've got a young lady who loves it. So, there you have, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, I practices try to train everyone on how to sell skincare and I just think I don't get that. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
I just, I think there's a better use of your time. Regarding, you're doing a lot of non-cervical as well. You have a full-blown med spa, right? Because isn't your, is your philosophy more patient for life or one and done? Or where are you at with that? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. God, you know, so, right now I, my practice and I as 90 plus, 90% of the overall surgical volume, I do about 2,240 procedures a year.
So, it's almost mind boggling. But I did surgery. Yeah. And so, I, my focus is all there. So, but what would be ideal? If I were to step back and walk into this office as a businessman, which I like to do mentally. I would look at the colors, I would look at the smells. I would look at how I'm greeted. I would see what, what the door presentation is.
I would want to hear the music on the speakers and you know, is there a TV on and what's playing on it and what's being presented. Are there menus of services? What are the services that this offers mm-hmm. That this office. Offers, how is it displayed? Is it displayed on the wall? Is it displayed electronically?
All of these things that would go through my mind if I walk to the office. And it's interesting because even though I, I suppose I'm in the position of c e o, I don't fulfill all of those. Things that I've just told you, there's always room for improvement. There's, and that's undyingly interesting to me, that there's always room for a person's improvement and the practice improvement.
Now, if I were to say in a more ideal situation for, so, I do about 90 major faceless and facial restorations a year in, if I could ideally, Play out for you. What I'd like to have, I'd like to have an introduction. I'd like to have a credentialing period. I'd like to discuss their goals. I'd like to hear from them for 10 or 15 minutes.
I'd like to a, evaluate them and like to give recommendations based on their goals. Now a quote is rendered, but I'd also like them to meet with an aesthetician because as part of the comprehensive care of this patient is not only. Pre-operative preparation for it in many cases, like laser skin reserving, but the post-operative maintenance, it, it is a really important, integral part of, of ideal patient care.
So, it's not just a surgeon comes in, cuts, walks out of the room and never sees the patient again. That would be the, the most cur method of maybe managing the patient. But really ideally that's what I'd like to have. Do I fulfill that each and every day? No, I don't. I, I think if I were to walk in as a consultant, I would say, boy, you really need to kind of systematize that process each and every day to have that integration that I think is more ideal.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, as a, coming from a perspective of the cosmetic patient, once they've invested in themselves on one body part, they will move on to another body part. And especially if you help them with that. So, I think you, you, you have a patient there for life psychologically, you know? Yes. Once you get that bug to look good or feel good and all of that. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Yeah, usually it's not a one-time thing for the patients and nor should it be for the practice, you know? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. The loyalty of patients within the cosmetic surgical field has been well documented. I mean, the average patient is like five procedures over a lifetime. If you can maintain them for a lifetime.
I wish only at five. Yeah, that's, yeah. Way over that. If you look at you know, lifetime income from that, you know, our average price point per procedure is just about $11,400. And so, I mean, that's not something we should shy away from. And we also know that the cost of acquisition of new clients is much more expensive than the preexisting ones.
So, it just, in every way it makes sense to establish and maintain an ideal relationship. But it really starts from. From the moment you meet them, being very direct, very honest, very, very open, and also expressing limitations. Just being a human. I mean, sometimes patients forget that just because you went to school for a long time, you don't have all the answers.
And reminding them that, that humbly, I think, is really important. Have you noticed a
Catherine Maley, MBA: change in cosmetic patients from even, I guess maybe pre-social media to now or pre-internet to now? Like, how do you see them now? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I, I, I'd say I'm a little bit biased by my current position in maturity of practice.
Probably 55, 60% of my patients, maybe even slightly higher are previous patients. Nice. So, that's, that's advises me because they already know me. They already trust me. They, you know, their daughter, their aunt, and their grandma came. And so, that's a, that's a no-brainer. You should seal that deal. That should be pretty easy.
It's the new clients, the new acquisitions that are, are Our, our have changed, evolved quite a bit of course during free money time and low interest rates. And, and COVID was, you know, the heyday for cosmetic surgery. I, I've rarely met a practice that didn't show a significant increase because of time available for recovery, but also Liquidity was very high.
Yep. And so, that period is, is certainly changing right now. And we see, seen a macroeconomic tightening throughout the country and all the practices that I deal with. And, you know, you, but it, it's a want and not a need. And thank goodness for that because having weathered housing crisis 2001 bombings there's a, you know, little dips that you take, but.
People want what they want and they'll put off their needs. They will not put off their wants too long. Mm-hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I agree. So, I want to switch gears a little bit because Sure. You've grown this incredible empire. And then I want to talk about the talk that you gave about the future of cosmetic and plastic surgery and the consolidation. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
So, can you go ahead and, and can you just like a brief talk of what your thought was? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Sure. Well, thank, thank you for, for listening to the talk. I appreciate it. Okay, so, five years ago. I sat down and I thought, you know, I'm not getting any younger. My practice has become a, a behemoth and it would be very difficult to sell the practice to an individual for what it's valued or what I'm told its value is I.
And so, I was really struggling with that. So, I thought, well, maybe I could fractionate it, break it down to shares, and maybe five doctors could split it up, and that would bring me some revenue towards an exit. But honestly, it still wasn't anywhere near what the actual cash flow and ongoing value of the practice was.
So, I got really frustrated with that and I, I can I Spoken, met with a lot of people from many different industries, auto industries tech industries all over as many people as would listen to me. And so, my, my grandma always said, if you want to want to learn something, just call. And so, I called CEOs from every website I could find.
It's amazing how many of them were interested to spend just five minutes with me and tell me about you know, it was like I was a kid in, in high school asking on a school project. And so, I learned and learned and learned, and I realized that where the value in the future of our field, in my opinion, is in reducing redundancy.
That was really the central theme. If you think about every garage, you drive by in the United States and it's open in the summer, you'd see a weed whacker and a lawnmower and a trimmer, and gosh forbid they're sitting there like 98% of the time not doing anything. What a waste of money when one community could very well buy a set of lawn, a lawnmower, a tremor, and rotate it throughout the community.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There you go. Perfect. That's a great idea. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. I think of it that way and. Yeah. And in our business, that's exactly what we do. Almost every small boutique type practice has an office manager, maybe a person in charge of, so, social media, front desk girl, and an accountant. And, you know, maybe that's the size that they're, they're comfortable with.
But my practice had grown so, big that I had, I have, you know, five departments. I've got department heads in each department and ins, subordinates within those departments. And we have department meetings and, you know, it's all very corporatized and just everything was just going that way. So, the more information I got, the more I realized that I, I could very.
Quite honestly, I could very easily just go to a private equity consolidated group and just sell my practice. But what I did was I looked at all the available options and there were very few, and still are, very few actually that have gotten to a point of consolidation. And I realized there were a few significant weaknesses and I spent, I.
Almost 2000 hours. That's no exaggeration by the way. 2000 hours. I documented all of it. I, during residency, I was very obsessive, so, I documented every hour I ever did during residency. And so, I have that all written down. So, I figured, you know, I've got to keep this up. So, I documented all the time, I spent on the phone, at conferences, at meetings with private equity groups.
And I learned a great deal and what I learned was the private equity groups often contributing some form of financing. So, they consistently wanted to take. Plastic elective surgery and Shoe Hornet into the models that they knew. And those models were gastroenterology, ophthalmology, dermatology, insurance-based accounts receivable.
Their due diligence process was very foreign into a cash-based system. They didn't even understand that we were prepaid for surgery, you know, a month in advance. It was just, Whoa. Where's your accounts receivable?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And there's no accounts receivable. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. None ever. So, I had, I was really like walking into these people that I felt I was the ignorant one, but they had absolutely no understanding of what I was talking about.
So, it was actually, I saw that as a great opportunity to, I mean, I always love somebody who's willing to listen to me, so, I had a great. Time kind of going through so, many different groups, speaking to different levels, all the way up to CEOs of these private equity companies, and just hearing what was pleasing to them and what they were scared of.
Hmm. What. Oh my gosh. I mean, the list could be very long. Key operator dependency issues. You know, if there's only one doctor in a practice, how can you show me on a, on a cash-based system that your 90 day and one 20-day revenues are going to be there when I'm used to waiting for accounts receivable for 120 days?
So, they, they want security.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, and this, and they want predictable revenues and how you say that in our industry, you know? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: That's right. And all you can do is say, well, I've been in businesses 21 years and it's gone pretty well. Yeah, right. So, I just kept on telling them that, listen, look at the books, look at the data, look at the, the, the cash system is, you know, a 40 to 60% profit margin.
You guys are arguing over 13 to 17% in dentistry. I mean, it makes no sense to me at all that you're wasting all this time with dentistry when you've got a cash cow right down the street. I mean it just over and over again. And then one day I got a call back from one of the CEOs and I was in the Atlanta airport at the time, returning from a, a meeting with another private equity group, and he said, Erik, We like what you've been saying, we've been really talking about it, and we want to meet with you and your group.
So, that was, I mean, I, I almost cried. I've been telling you my hair stood up in my arms. I was like, yes. And finally, it took me four years to hear that type of response that I was hoping for. And, you know, speed ahead and the tides are turning. There's certainly a tipping point. Of familiarity, understanding, and acceptance.
And the world of cosmetic elected plastic surgery is filled with people that make a great deal of money compared to the average person, and they're very autonomous. And this is a tide that's going to take a long time. But that's okay. The, we're, we're in this for the long haul. This is a 10-year project.
This is not a one-year project. This is a 10-year project, and I really came up with that idea with a lot of my buddies in construction. And when they look at a thousand-acre plot, they're not thinking about, you know, one year, they're thinking about 10 years in building schools, community parks restaurants, everything.
That's a part of urban development. And I just thought that's, that's the kind of approach I want to have in this industry is a 10-year plan. I. So, really that led me to some partners with some colleagues I've known for 25 plus years. All of them that are surgeons. Were business people. Yeah. These are all other surgeons that have been extremely, you'd know all their names if I mentioned them, but I won't mention them because they didn't give me an approval to do so, but they're very well-known people that you would know immediately.
And people that after conversations, just like we're having, came to the realization that the future is very strong when you consolidate. Mm-hmm. The strength, and this really comes from the relationship I've had with my wife and my. Fellows and my partners are that we are always stronger together than you are separately.
Always, always. And once people get that mentality shift accepted, they go, ah, I get it. So, we can have one accountant for the entire system. That's one cost. We have one c e o, one procurement expert, one person that's saving us 20% on. Allergan or Galderma just 20% right there of negotiating power. When you've got a 50 million a year cash flow company and you sign exclusive contracts, you're going to get tremendous buying power, strength, and it, it's just over and over again.
I could go on and on, but I, I hope that's exciting for the viewership.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And are you consolidating the HR, the hiring, the managing? Because I find absolutely the surgeons, the number one challenges staff. Mm-hmm. They, they are. So, especially after post covid, they're so, done with staff. Like they're, yeah. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
You know, is, does it include that? Because I can see a lot of practices thinking, oh my God, if I could get this off my plate and get back to doing what I like to do, which is surgery. Yeah. I'd be a happy clam right now. And I'm, and they're, I'm not. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the type of person that we're looking for.
And you know, to kind of make this segue a little bit the goal is to have 50 practices that are like-minded, utilizing a centralized call center, centralized HR, centralized procurement. The buying power of, you know, 150 million a year company is just puts you into a totally different league, right?
We want doctors to maintain autonomy if they want to. So, we offer a number of different avenues to try to become partners, and it has to be a partnership. There are people that just want an exit plan and we provide that exit plan. There are people that want administrative roles and responsibilities.
There are people that want equity in a growing and very rapidly growing corporation that pays dividends. And so, we have avenues for all those different types of people, and we have avenues for people that just want to show up and work. I have a couple people right now that, so, we're constantly interviewing.
We're constantly evaluating practices, and you always learn something from that. Those, those communications.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you involving private equity or is this a physician led consolidation? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Actually, the answer is yes and yes. Okay. Ultimately in order to fund the growth if you study almost every other industry, there's a reason that loans exist.
Yes. I mean, why, why not just put it on your shoulders? Well, because honestly, there's a point of growth that you need acceleration and you need to get through a, a bridge, a gap that costs money. And it's, it can be a pretty substantial amount. So, the initial phase of development is a minority partnership with private equity where we maintain 80 plus percent of ownership and all decision-making rights exclusive of a few constraints with utilization of funds.
That are appropriate to any financial term, to any company. And but it is a board run by through and about physicians.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the board is made up of decision-making powers by physicians and the business people are also on that board? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes. They have one seat at the board, at the table. They do have some.
Again, you know, lots of details, but ultimately decision-making powers of specific hiring roles. Veto powers do exist, but they're extremely limited due to the minority position.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. I'm doing, it's a miracle though. I've worked with, I mean, when I get in when there are more than three surgeons in a room, we have a tough time making a decision, so, Yeah. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
You know. Good, good for you, because I can't imagine all of them coming. How does that work? Can you get a decision made? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I think, again, it all goes back to what I tried to form formally kind of describe, you have to have this mental shift. It's not about me anymore. Yeah. It's about the entity.
It's about growth. It's about the quality of consistency of quality of care. Mm. Mm-hmm. And I think those words play very strongly amongst even egocentric physicians. Mm-hmm. So, but getting that shift from me, me, me, Now I have a two-year-old and he's constantly saying, mine, mine, mine. And I just, I got to take a video of it because it reminds me so, much of the first time I meet with a doctor who's got been a very successful doctor in there.
They've got these barriers that are so, visible. I mean, you can just palpate and trying to get through that to, to a level of, of greater understanding that this is a societal shift. Hmm. You can either sit back and wait, or you can be a part of it. If you join early, you're going to be in a position of more directorial involvement, right?
You're going to have a higher equity value. And what happens if you look at the math and its pretty simple stuff. I'm, I'm the, not the smartest guy in the world, but I do work hard. So, if you look at the math, it's really simple stuff. When you add practices to a group, it becomes stronger. When you exit, meaning when you sell it to a larger fish.
So, a small fish is eaten by a bigger fish, and that's the principle at hand here, is that a private equity group comes along and says, this is a prosperous company. They're running very efficiently. They do good business. I want to buy them now before they get too big and too expensive. And then there's an equity transition.
And then that doctor can consider, do I want to cash in my equity or do I want to stay on for the next? Bigger fish that comes along and it's just a pretty simple process, but you have to buy into it mentally. You have to understand that ultimately, it's not about the individual practice anymore. It's about the opportunity to take best practices from each location and formulate the best practice.
Mm-hmm. Because I can tell you, after spending so, many years and so, much time with all these other practices, there are some things that fall way outside the standard of care. And it's readily available, and I'm very research oriented. I, I'm constantly studying and I don't really do much else except fly airplanes.
So, for me I, I love trying to find out, you know, what is the enhanced recovery after surgery, what is the fastest way to get a patient home? What is the most efficient way? What is the safest way to reduce DBTs and blood clot formation and complications after surgery? That is just thrilling to me, and having that energy and enthusiasm and being able to transfer to multiple practices.
I mean, I, I mean, I don't know what to say. This is the greatest life ever. Okay. I would love to have that. So, when I can find people with similar, like-minded ideas, then we, we blend pretty well. And the decision making is always about what's best for the patient because the financial returns will come, they will come as a result of running the business properly, running it ethically, morally, keeping track of every dime appropriately and, and always best practice for the patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, because this is a business and marketing podcast, I have to ask about the marketing. Yeah, sure. Is the branding now a big name, like your name is Olympus Cosmetic Surgery, is it now like Dr. Smith Plastic Surgery by Olympus? Mm-hmm. Or how does that work? And then who does, who does the patient attraction now? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Does everyone have a big ad budget and the, the front office handles all the, how does that work out the advertisement? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Well, it, it's always evolving. The current situation is that all the practices are independent, but we're consolidating our services. Gotcha. Now, I, I do view in that 10-year time plan that I've told you that there will be a central theme, a central title AEN, a central logo.
We have our subgroup; we have our website related to Olympus cosmetic surgery group. Brett's really in the stages. For information for future acquisitions or partners to find us. So, it's not a centralized advertising platform. It will be there's no question that's inevitable, but right now, in each individual location, we're trying to find the most successful practices, and they're successful for a reason.
Mm-hmm. Because they've proven their methods successful in their region. So, if they're dominating, we don't want to rock the boat and dislodge that, that dominance from that area, just because we think we know better.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Yeah. Okay, that's a good idea. You know what, I want to wrap it up. Now. I normally, I'm afraid to ask, you know, because I like, I usually like to ask tell us something we don't know about you. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
So, if you can't say that you fly planes, because we already know that. What, what's another one? Cause I'm, you are a very interesting person. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Well, I don't know. I appreciate that. Well, gosh. I would say if I were to, to say the thing that, that you know, I, I, I say it all the time. I'm not, not the smartest guy in the world, but I do work my ass off, and I mean that at a much deeper level than I'm, I'm, I'm admitting I, I think that the.
Interest and the passion that I have for studying humanity is, is unparalleled. I absolutely love every moment of this life, and when I go, it'll be just fine with me because I've lived a full and complete one. But just the, the interactions between highly intelligent people, investment bankers, a private equity group, leaders, I mean, These people, if I were a little kid and somebody said, someday you're going to be hanging out with all these people that went to the best schools in the country, and were top of their class in every way, and you're hanging out with them and you're doing pretty well.
I'd say no way. You know, so, it just, the, the passion has is there for me. And I, I would just say if, if I could surround myself with people with equal or similar passion as I know you have in your field. I mean, gosh, I've, I've known you for like 25 years I think so, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I needed to be in this field to hang in there.
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you have to have that undying, never say die, never quit. Passion that is, is, is, is palpable. So, other know, others know it and, and I somehow have been blessed with that gift. So, thank you for allowing me to say that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Congratulations, and thank you for your father for being an orthodontist. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
I had braces a million years ago, and I'm so, grateful it was a life changer. Looking back now, if I hadn't had braces. Oh my gosh. That would be a different story, you know? Yeah. So, Dr. Nuveen, how can people get ahold of you? I'm sure there's plenty of surgeons who are interested in your business model. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
It's very unique and I, and I find it's very multifaceted. It seems like it, you don't have a, a process in ink right now. It's a multiple flexible fluid process because you're evolving right. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. There are some rigid elements that you can't hear from due to the relationships.
Mm-hmm. But we're always learning and we got to have that attitude. I mean, if you look at some of the other groups that have attempted to go down this pathway, they've really had some terrible problems. And, and, and actually it's been a wonderful lesson because you look at what they've done and you're like, well of course that wasn't going to work.
You know, lifestyle lift. I mean, I could go down the road. There's, there's been probably 10. That are examples of just poor business practice or lack of transparency, or a lack of partnering. True partnering, it's an overused term. It's one that you really have to focus on is it's got to be a partnership and people have to see eye to eye in the relationship.
So, yeah, we'll continue to learn and evolve with the people that want to join us. My, my contact is probably best just as I give to my patients each and every day. Gimme a call. Give me an email. My email is fxfaces@yahoo.com. fxfaces@ yahoo.com or call my cell phone. But also, you can Google, you can get me there as well.
My, my telephone number's openly published. It's (405) 550-7522.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, it has been a pleasure having you on Beauty and the Biz. I really appreciate it. I'll see you again at a conference coming up. Looks like you're traveling. Everyone's traveling again.
Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, yeah, I'll tell you any, anytime if there's another in interesting issue you'd like to discuss. I, I do lots of other things un unrelated to this topic, but other business things with many different startups and techs and stuff, so, I'm always interested.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Nuveen understands the future of cosmetic surgery.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Nuveen, you can reach out to his website at, csaok.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Nuveen for sharing his vision on the future of cosmetic surgery.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βThe Future of Cosmetic Surgery β with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD".
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Kontis is the 2nd female president of AAFPRS.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "2nd Female President of AAFPRS β with Theda C. Kontis, MD".
I had the privilege to interview Dr. Theda Kontis, a facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in a private, multi-surgeon practice in Baltimore, MD.
Dr. Kontis has been very active in the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for the past 30 years and was recently elected to serve as the AAFPRS president, making her the 2nd women to hold that title.
We talked about her vision for the Academy under her presidency and the challenge of juggling her duties there, while also managing a big practice with multiple surgeons and lots of staff.
She also shared her opinions on private equity, the change she has noticed in cosmetic patientsβ attitudes, as well as staff tips to keep turnover at bay.
Visit Dr. Kontis' website P.S. Please review!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
2nd Female President of AAFPRS β with Theda C. Kontis, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Kontis is the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, I'm very excited about today's guest.
It's Dr. Theda Kontis, who is the 2nd female President of AAFPRS. She's a facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in a private multi-surgeon practice in Baltimore, Maryland, and the name of the practice is The Aesthetic Center at Woodholme. Now, Dr. Kontis completed her residency and fellowship. At Johns Hopkins and is currently an associate professor there as well.
Now, her bestselling textbook, "Cosmetic injection techniques", is in its second edition and has been translated into five foreign languages. She's also authored numerous, and I repeat, numerous research and review articles, book chapters, editorials, as well as conducts research clinical trials. Now, Dr. Kontis has been very active in the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for the past 30 years, and was recently elected to serve as the AAFPRS President, making her only the second woman to hold that title.
Dr. Kontis, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, and congratulations on being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Thank you so, much Catherine, and thank you for inviting me. It's quite an honor.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Let's just talk about that for a minute, because I didn't realize you were the president right this minute. I thought it was you were still president and elect.
I'm sorry. So, how busy are you juggling that plus your practice, plus your family? How's it going? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, I never could have done it if I had little children, but luckily my daughter's all grown and in medical school. So, it's, it's quite a challenge. It takes a lot more time than I thought it would, but it's really fun.
It's fun to be involved and to be able to make changes. And I've been a member of our academy for many, many years and sort of came up in the ranks and it's fun to give back.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. I mean, that's putting a lot on your plate. Is there a lot of travel involved or nowadays is it more Zoom? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: It's all Zoom it Recently our marketing firm.
Actually, had me do all these Zoom meetings with magazine editors and they used to take the president to New York City and go in a car and go from one desk to another. And it was fun, but it was not very productive because, you know, how many offices can you go to in a morning, you know? And I could have six.
Meetings in the morning on Zoom. So, it was fun. I, I really enjoyed doing, they call them desk sides and working with all of the magazine editors and it really is fun to get the word about being facial plastic surgeons and to trust your face to a facial plastic surgeon to get that word and that message out is, it's fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. So, let's just talk about your practice. And I noticed when I was doing some research when I met you a long time ago at the meetings and then I was in your office, you had two surgeons, and now I see you have three surgeons. So, what's the makeup of your practice in today's world? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I joined my fellowship director.
Most everyone has heard of Ira Papel, of course. And Ira was my fellowship director. I was his first fellow. I finished in 1994, and the deal was Ira said, I will train you and then I want you to join my practice. So, when I joined Ira, we had a very small operating room with one nurse who did everything, and we had three secretaries.
Now we have 25 employees. A big operating room, a minor procedure room, about 10 nurses, and we hired a body plastic surgeon who was one of the Hopkins residents who rotated with us. And so, he was a good match for our practice. But we don't when, when people. Have a body plastic surgeon join their practice.
Sometimes they limit them and say, you can only do tummy tucks and breasts and all the face stuff you need to give to me. But Ira, and I thought that really isn't fair to him because if he does a body work on someone and they want him to do their facelift, It's not fair for him to say, well, sorry, but I can't do it.
So, he does everything and it's a really good match. So, the three of us get along great. He's, he's buying into the practice now and it's, it's, it's been good. You know, you have to choose a partner that like a marriage. And the two guys I'm partners with are really, really good. Marriage.
Business marriage people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Well, you're all, you also are very mild mannered and reasonable, so, I bet that helps a lot. But you also probably share the same values. Are you still doing reconstructive and research and cosmetic? Like what's your, where are you spending your time? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Mostly cosmetic. We all do mostly cosmetic.
We do some reconstruction with cancer. Skin cancer reconstruction. And the research bit sort of comes and goes. It depends. If there's a project that is that we're asked to participate in, we'll do that. We have a great coordinator. You know, it's so, important to have somebody who just takes over.
Like you always say, you know, someone who you don't have to think about. Well, we have someone who does that and so, she just runs everything and we fill in the blanks. And so, I love doing clinical trials. I mean, if I could stop doing all my regular work and just do clinical trials, I probably would because it's fun.
But you know that that mix of things really makes every day just different and exciting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And then where are you at with the surgical versus non-surgical? Is it a priority in your office? Do you have that? Like patients for life mentality where they go up and down the ladder, they start the surgery, work their way down to non, go to non-work, their way up to surgical.
What, how did you feel about that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, let me backtrack a little bit on that. When I joined Ira, IRA is a rhinoplasty guy and when I joined him, I actually said, are you sure you want another facial plastics person in your practice? Because we're going to be competitors. Basically. We're going to be fighting over the same patient.
And he said, no, no, that's what I want. So, I, I thought, you know, I will never be the rhinoplasty person in the practice. Am I okay with that? And so, the answer was yes, I was okay with that. So, then the next question I asked myself is, how am I going to. Distinguish myself, separate myself from Ira, like why would someone come to me?
So, I finished in 1994, and that's just when Restylane and Botox started coming out and I thought, I can master this. I can be the injectable person. And so, I wrote a textbook on it. We did courses on it. So, that became my niche and. That way Ira. Ira does injectables and I do rhinoplasties, but he's known for rhinoplasty and I'm known for injectables.
And my injectable patients are patients for life. You know, they love you, they trust you, they appreciate your artistic eye, and when they're ready for something, I'm the person they ask. Is it time for this? Is it time for this? Fillers aren't going to do it for you anymore. You need this. So, it, it's absolutely a gateway and I think that the general plastic surgeons years ago made an error in judgment on saying, We are the surgeons.
Other people should do the injectables. And I think that was a mistake that if you don't do injectables and you don't get good with that, you're missing a nice chunk of patients who love you, who want then to move forward with bigger things
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, there's such a balance there. I've seen it every which way where the surgeon says, no, I'm just going to let it go.
I just, I'm, I just want to be in the OR. But then you hire nurse injectors, so, I'm sure you have, you, you have several nurses there. Do you have them doing the injectables at all the, the surgeons are doing? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: No, and that's how we distinguish ourselves in the community. Mm-hmm. That the doctors do the injections.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. All right. And are you going to stick to it? Like have you noticed it's taken you away from the surgical or not? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Not a bit. Okay. Not a bit. But I'm busy. I mean, I see 35 patients a day and some of those are injectables and some of those are people who want to talk about surgery. And you know, I can't tell you how often I'm injecting someone and they start asking me questions about surgery and it becomes a cosmetic consult while I'm injecting them.
So, You, I can't imagine not doing injectables or passing it off to someone else when I have their ear. I can't expect a nurse who is doing the injections to say, you know, this really isn't going to work for you. You, it's, you're at the point now where you need a facelift. They're not going to say that.
They're going to say, you know, I think you need six syringes rather you're four. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So, what are all these staff doing? You've got 24 staff and a lot of nurses, what are they all doing? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Okay, I have well, secretaries obviously I have a skincare and laser division as well as the surgical side. So, we've got three estheticians.
We've got three laser nurses. So, we've got that side of the business running with skincare, with selling products. The, the Allergan company does a review of metrics to comparison benchmarking. And our aesthetician is off the charts in selling products, so, they, they really have it down and skincare is such an important mesh with cosmetic surgery.
You've got to, to change the skin quality to get the best results. So, we've got estheticians, we've got laser nurses, we've got or two ORs going all the time. So, we need nurses for recovery, nurses for the, or. Two rooms going. So, that's a lot of staff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, that is a lot of staff. Any staff tips? I don't know if you had the dip, like others, you know, the post covid.
Did you have HR issues or any tips on managing staff pre Covid or PA post covid? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, yeah, the, the staff really sort of laid the law down with us and said, you know, we could go to Wendy's. And make X amount of dollars an hour and you're only paying us this, so, what can we do? You know, we had to give everybody, everybody got a raise to get them up to this competitive with Wendy's and Burger King thing, you know?
So, so, yeah, they sort of held us hostage with that. But they all stayed through covid. They all stayed. They knew we were getting the PPP loans to save them, to keep them with, with income coming in to save their jobs. We didn't lose anybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Nice. So, just out of curiosity, does Wendy still pay like that or can you now like what? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
You can't take money away from his, can't take away him a raise.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah. So, what are you going to do? I mean, the cost of living's terrible, you know? So, what are you going to do? Yeah. We are so, busy you know, all the practices around the world that do cosmetic surgery are, you know, going crazy. Yeah. So, you know, it wasn't a hardship for us to give them a raise and probably they, you know, it was the right thing to do.
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: One thing I have learned or I keep hearing the staff will not work at overdrive for very long. They need fun. They need acknowledgement. They need recognition. But they can't live in a pressure cooker every day. Do you, do you feel that or do they, is that the feedback you get or how do you keep it at least calm, you know, in, in the middle of a storm when you're so, busy? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, we fired the one that was the pressure cooker actually. Good for you. Now there's, and that was the mistake, you know, higher, higher, slow fire. Fast. Well, we fired slow, which is a bit of a problem. But there's always a disruptor. There's always something that everybody's upset about. And it was that one person, and we needed, we knew it, but.
This person was very productive. And you know, sometimes they hold you hostage because they're such good workers. It's like, oh, we don't want to let them go because they're so, good, but they're driving the rest of the staff away. So, after a few people leave, then you realize that this is just not going to work.
They've got to go. And so, once you get rid of that person, then everybody's happy. And the, the doctors set the tone. Hmm. You know, and we, they know, our staff knows that they're appreciated. They know that they're valued. And we treat them with respect. And so, I don't think there's anybody in our office who doesn't want to come to work in the morning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. Talking about that. I've even been with practices where it was the office manager who was the drama queen and just 80% of the staff left before the surgeon did something about it. And it's just so, easy for me on the outside to say, get rid of her. But on the inside, you have so, many uncertainties about it.
Fear about it losing somebody who's productive, but doesn't it always happen the minute they're gone? You hear the feedback, oh my God, why didn't we do this sooner? Oh, I should have done this. You know, I mean, this has been fantastic. It just, I don't know what the right answer is, except when your gut is telling you that something's not right.
I would say just address it sooner rather than later, you know? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: You know, we all tend to have employees that we think are not replaceable. Right. But they are, and that is part of the issue that we think, how can we let this person go? They do everything well, they're replaceable.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I would say though, one of the biggest errors is not getting that employee's intellectual property down on paper. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
You know, if they know everything and they set themselves up for that, by the way, they need to be irreplaceable in their own minds because it gives them safety. We've all had that employee, God knows I've had it too. And that person becomes so, ESHA can't even be sick for a day. And you're like, oh my God, what would I do?
I fall apart. And, and then you don't, you know, when it happens because then it's going to, it's going to blindside you. So, I have learned, get all this. Get all this on paper, get it in videos, get SOPs, standard operating procedures get checklists do not let them walk out the door being the only person in the practice who knows what's going on. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Absolutely true. And when we let this person go, part of what we had her doing is sort of teaching other people how to do what she did which was not rocket science, you know, but we sort of, Moved her around and had her show people things. And I think she saw the writing on the wall. But to have your staff be able to multitask is so, important.
Never have one person who does one thing and they're the only ones who know how to do it, because they do hold you hostage. And they're done that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Give me like running a practice as long as you have, first of all, the surgeons themselves. Any tips on how, how three surgeons can work together harmoniously? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, they all listen to me, which is good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you kind of like the deciding factor if it's pretty much, pretty much there? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: My two partners are very calm, easygoing. They don't get riled up about anything. I'm the more emotional one. I sort of take charge of things and I tell them, look, it needs to be boom, boom, boom.
And they say, okay. So, the, it's not a power struggle. We all. Feel comfortable enough to disagree with each other if we need to. But it's just a very respectful, nice group and so, many times you hear of people joining another physician and it just doesn't work out. And I think it's too much of everybody trying to be the boss trying to Dominate one or the other not agreeing about things.
And then what do you do if there's two of you, you know, you're at an impasse. But my two partners are just easygoing. Easy to get along with guys. And I. Just works. I'm very fortunate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I don't hear this very often, so, please enjoy that. You know? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah, I do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's not always that way. I do think it's true when you have two alphas in the office that just.
Can't work one. It just, one has to be the alpha and one has to be the go along or stay out of each other's way. Like you do the marketing, I'll do the admin, like something like that. Like tight boundaries perhaps. But I'm just glad it's working for you. That's fantastic. Now, are there any plans to. Grow anymore or there's been so, much talk about exiting, like how do you exit these practices? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
It seems to be changing very quickly. There's a lot of talk about private equity coming in and taking over. Any thoughts about that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I don't know of one person who has sold to private equity who said, this is the best thing I ever did. Oh, no. It's terrible selling out to private equity because you've made your baby, you know, and now you're going to give your baby away, but you still have to be parenting for a while and you're watching somebody else take care of your baby.
And it's horrible. Because it all suddenly becomes about the money and it's not about, your staff does not benefit from it. The only person that benefits is the physician who got their millions of dollars for their practice, and we're not going to do it. We, our exit strategy's going to be different.
Iraβs older than me. Iraβs going to eventually, in a few years start phasing out. We hired on Emile Brown, our body guy as part of the, the next generation. He'll eventually take over the practice after I leave. We're looking now at somebody to replace Ira, somebody who has rhinoplasty knowledge, who can sort of.
Fit into Iraβs practice model and sort of take that going. So, our way of keeping the practice going is to have a succession plan. Mm-hmm. If I were in practice by myself, I, and getting older, I think that probably selling out to private equity is. Maybe a good thing. You get your golden handshake and then you leave.
But it's just, it's a really tough thing on your employees who, you know, we love our employees and, and employees aren't happy once the practices get sold. Mm-hmm. So, it's people can do it either way, but I like the way that we've chosen, I'm not going to make millions and millions like I could sell out my practice, but I feel better about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The one thing that I find interesting with the private equity is they'll consolidate some of the tasks that you don't want to do, like. HR benefits contractual agreements you know, they can pull the resources and get you a better rate on, you know, the, the cost of goods. That part I find interesting.
It's the part when the people get involved and who could, who controls the shop. You know, like all of a sudden now the staff who does the staff work for the, the surgeon or the private equity group or that part? It's a little fuzzy, but it's really exploding. Like, it, it's all, it's all I'm hearing about right now, so, I don't have an, an opinion on it yet.
I don't know enough about it. All I know is the more people, the more cooks in the kitchen, the more complicated it gets. And I don't know, can you know, can you lose complete control over it? Or can you still have piece of, because one of the things about surgeons, you're, you're in private practice for a reason, otherwise you'd be in the, in the university still, you know?
Yeah. So, then to take that away and say, okay, I'm just going to work for you now, I think that's more difficult said than done. If you've been running your own show. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I don't know. I'm telling you, Catherine, find, find the people that are happy. They sold out. Okay. They're going to be hard to find. I predict that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. That's really interesting. Okay. I'm taking a poll. I'm taking a silent poll out, an informal poll of is this a good idea or not? Because I feel like some of this makes sense, but then what's the other side of it, you know, that I don't, I don't know yet. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I don't have an opinion yet, so, so, I have a, several dermatology friends have sold out.
Okay. Yes. One of them said that all of a sudden there was a new practitioner in her office working with her. Never met her, didn't know anything about her. I don't know if she liked her or not, but all of a sudden, they hired somebody and now she's working side by side with this new person because she has to work in her office a couple years before she's out.
Yes, yes. Another staff member in another practice said to a patient, oh, Dr. So-and-so, she's not the boss anymore. Oh, we don't work for her. We work for so-and-so company. And you could tell that they were really bitter about it. Hmm. So, patient, patient care goes down and, you know, we pride ourselves with patient satisfaction and the things we do to coddle our patients.
Mm-hmm. That's not coddling. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. I think it's a bad idea.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I do know another, a Mos surgeon and he, but he was pretty burnt out. He was running a big operation and he was more than willing to let the res go. So, in his case, he's like, yeah, I'm still on board, but I'm just, I just do my surgery and leave.
I'm not involved anymore. And, but I think he was at that point. As you do when you get older, you're like, I don't know how much fight I have left in me. You know? So, I think it just has, you have to really watch the variables of this, and you have to know yourself. Are you going to be okay working for someone else? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Are you going to be, okay? When your staff looks at you like I. What'd you do? What happened here? You know? Right. That's the part I worry about the staff saying, I don't work for you anymore. Like what? Right. What the heck? Like that, ah, that's not a good culture at all.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: But you, you lose autonomy, like you said.
We go into this to have our own practice, to have autonomy. Right. So, your most surgeon may lose his most tech and they'll say, sorry, we're going to hire so-and-so to do your tech. Well, they're not any good. They're not doing a good job. I'm not happy with them. Well, sorry, that's what you get. You know, and then, you know, it's like working at an academic center.
You have no, you're stay over what you do. Full circle. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the more fun stuff, and that's the marketing. I want to congratulate you on the incredible outside signage. You happen to get approved on your building. You cannot try by your place without seeing that. How did you ma Nowhere else can somebody have big signage like that on the outside of their building.
So how did you, I know, how did you manage that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, I love to negotiate. Okay. I took a course and learned negotiating and I love it. And I buy all the cars in the family because I love negotiating. So, when we, when we Went into our building, which was 20 years ago, they did not allow any signage on the building.
Yep. So, we had a 10-year lease. So, the urologist moved in above us about maybe seven years into our lease and put a big sign up. Chesapeake Urology. It's like, wait a minute. Now it looks like we're working in the Chesapeake Urology building, and I did not like that. So, when our lease renewal came up at 10 years, I said, you know, we want to sign up too.
And they said, well, Chesapeake has the whole floor. I said, well, we are taking over this other suite next door for our skincare and laser side. Said, that's basically the whole floor. And they said, all right. So, we used the build out money that they gave us to buy the sign, so, it cost us nothing. Yes. So, then when Dr.
Brown joined us, we need a bigger sign because there's three names now, not two. So, now we're much bigger than Chesapeake Urology. So, it's, it's wonderful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you, and you got your names on there too. Names on the building. Yeah. You are like celebrities. Your local celebrities at this point. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah, yeah. People say you can't drive by without seeing our names, so, that's good.
And aren't you on like a major thoroughfare? Yeah, pretty. It's in a big shopping area, so, there's a lot of traffic going around. A lot of traffic.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. Let's talk about the patients for a second. Do you, what difference do you see now in patients, cosmetic patients that you didn't see before, and how are you handling that? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Like their, their tastes and demeanor or how they, how they work with you. Talk about negotiating. Having the negotiation skills is probably brilliant in today's world.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, it is, it does help. I tell you, Catherine, it's really, I've had this conversation already twice today. Oh. People are angry.
People are angry. They're unhappy. They, you know, in nine 11. When nine 11 happened, we all bonded together. Everyone was nice to each other. Everyone was help you do anything you can to help someone else. Covid pushed us all away from each other, like, don't stand next to me. You could infect me. And we were away from each other for so, long.
People have forgotten how to be nice to each other. So, there's this, this undercurrent of anger and unhappiness. With an overlay of social media telling everyone they have to be perfect. So, throw all that into the person that's sitting in our exam chair. You've got someone who wants a perfect result who's already angry.
And it's, it's really, I find the patients today very difficult to deal with. I have a rhino I saw a rhinoplasty patient like took they're splint off. Oh. And they said, when do I get my revision? Oh my God. So, so, I'm entitled to a revision and I'm ready for it. It's just, it's mind boggling. I've had all these one-star reviews recently.
Either I've become suddenly a horrible doctor. I got one that the patient wrote that 17 years ago they had surgery with me and the staff was rude to them and they were unhappy with their results. I had to write now getting, I had to write back. I had to write back. I really don't understand why it's taken you 17 years.
To write a comment like this, I wish you had at least come talk to me so, we could figure out what the problem is. Good for you. But 17 years, they're going to start writing one-star reviews. That's insane. I, I donβt know, I, I don't get it. But it's a very interesting question that you ask because people are very different right now.
They're hard to please and it's just a different mindset.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, some surgeons now are even videotaping the consultation. They're videotaping the all of the consent forms like it's gotten. That feels so, defensive. Like that can't be building a great relationship if you're videotaping people. But I don't know what the answer is.
You know? Do you protect yourself or do you just hope to God these people are reasonable? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: You know, it's all, you have to protect yourself. I'm not videotaping consents. You have to trust your gut. You know, so, many times if, if the staff doesn't like a patient and I don't like a patient, it's probably better not to operate.
You know, we always say you never regret not operating on someone. Right. And that is so, true. It's, it's a tough world right now, and social media has not helped.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you actually active on social media? And if so, like, are you spending any of your time there, your personal time there? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I had patients tell me, you've got to get on Instagram.
So, I got on Instagram and I realized that it was such a waste of my time that I just, I'll post some things periodically just to let people know what's going on. But it doesn't really bring me patience. So, you know, I think if I were a young person starting my practice, I think you have to be in social media.
But I think somebody who's, you know, I've sort of peaked in my practice. I don't think I need social media at this point.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm with you. I, I know I'm older, so, it's not that I don't care. It, it's that I don't care enough to spend my time doing it. So, I have my staff work around, work around me to get it done.
And I would say that for some surgeons, they have embraced it. Wholeheartedly. And it does attract patients because they have the right attitude. Like they, they want to do it, they enjoy it, they, they like it. Right. And, but I would say if your heart's not into it, there has to be a better way for you to spend your time than I don't even go on there. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
I can't, I'm not allowed to go on there. I'm one of those A c D or O c d or whatever the heck they're called. Oh, is that right? Oh my God. 30 minutes. I'm gone for 30 minutes. I, I, I don't even know what happened around me, and I just think this is not a good use of my time. It's not good for my mental health.
So, I stay away from it, but I, I see how it can help. Rhinoplasty though, I would just say generally speaking, they're the toughest patients already. Gosh, to add social media to that as well. I don't know. I do, you do a lot of revision rhino, because a lot of surgeons don't even do the revision Rhino anymore, and then some do it, but they charge a whole lot for it, but it's a lot more risk there. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: So, what are your thoughts about that? Well, you know, you tell a rhinoplasty patient, I tell them there's no such thing as a perfect, perfect rhinoplasty. Do they hear you? When you say that? I was just going to say, it goes in one ear and out the other, and then postop. You say, remember I told you there's no such thing as a perfect rhinoplasty.
I had mines done. I can tell you six things wrong with it, but it's better. They don't want to hear that. So, y you know sometimes a little bit of filler. In a rhinoplasty, patient can just make a good rhinoplasty, a great rhinoplasty. So, I do offer that to people sometimes. I do revision rhinoplasties on patients who've had rhinoplasty elsewhere.
I do revision rhinoplasty on my own patients when they're not happy. What are you going to do? You know, most of the time we try to do it under local. So, that it's not a huge financial loss. Mm-hmm. But some people need anesthesia, so, at least most of the time you can get them to pay the anesthesia. But, you know, sometimes they're so, angry that's the last thing you need to do, so, you eat that cost.
So, you know, sometimes you lose money doing rhinoplasty surgery. Mm-hmm. So, it's, it's a tough surgery and a tough practice to have. I can't say I have to revise eyelids or facelifts or, you know fat OS very often, but boy, rhinoplasty, I mean, there's a standard revision rate that people just, they want perfection and they want it more now than they used to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. I had a rhino and I was super happy with mine, but as I've gotten older, the darn the scar under my nose started showing more. And I thought, this never ends this aging process. It just, it's, my face is just constantly shifting. But then so, then I goes to my laser people and I say, can you just laser this darn thing? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
And psychologically I feel a lot better. I think that's what a lot of times the patient, they just want you to do something. Exactly. Yeah, that's my little tip there.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: And that's the nice thing about fillers. Mm-hmm. Cause they say I just, every time I look in the mirror, I just see this, well, we'll put a little filler there now you don't see it.
βOh yeah. It's better.β
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so, what's your theory about patient retention? Are you into the βone and doneβ or patient for life? What's your feeling on that? Patient for life? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Patient for life, absolutely. It's a silly thing to one and done because they love you. And they trust you and so, they're going to keep coming back.
And I mean, that was the beauty of Botox is that they had to keep coming back. You know? So, that's why you have to have, in my mind, you have to have a filler practice. To have people coming back and as they age, they need more filler and then they're going to need surgery. And if you want to have an aging face practice, that's the way to do it.
And then they are happy and their friends come in, you know, all my new patients give me names of two or three people that I've operated on who say, oh, I really like how so-and-so looks. That's why I'm here. So, that's how you grow your practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I call that the long tail patient. The aging face is just a beautiful patient retention strategy because she has other friends just like her who need your services, they care a lot more about your credibility and your credentials and your reputation than some of these younger folks do.
They're just more financially. You know, secure. And they're more reasonable it seems. Absolutely. So, they're the ones who but they're the ones who typically will return, refer, review on, approve your photos. How are you feeling about the before and after photos? I'm also doing it in personal study on this one.
How do you get patients to approve their before and after photos? Do you ask yourself; do you have the staff ask? Do you hope they just offer? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Okay, so, this is my routine. Okay. When we do consent for surgery, I ask them if I can show their pictures to other patients, yes or no. And if I can put them on the internet, yes or no, and we circle it and they initial it.
And so, now I have a record of it. Sometimes they'll say, well, just my eyes, if you're doing my lips, or you know, don't show my whole face. Okay, fine. Then after six to eight weeks after surgery, we do their after pictures and I print them up and give them their after pictures. Nice. And I have, I give it to them on photographic paper in an envelope, and staple to the outside of the envelope is a letter from me thanking them for trusting me with their surgery.
And saying, by the way, if you're happy, please write a review, because I'll bet you read reviews about me before you came to me. And maybe 1% of people write reviews, but it does help because they're happy. Now if the results aren't that good, obviously I don't ask them to write a review or if they're mad or something.
But most of the time I ask someone for a review. Some of the time they write a review, but giving them their pictures. Is huge because I don't just hand it to them. I say, now look here. See how you had this hoodie here. See how that's better? See how your eyelids are more symmetric and your brow now is above your bone.
You look brighter. Let me hold your picture far away. See how your eyes look bigger? And I show them what they need to see because they don't see what we see. For good point. So, it's really important. Don't just hand them the pictures, but actually explain their results to them. So, you know this a little bit that you see here, that's probably going to get better.
We'll take pictures again at three months and we'll see. So, I give them their pictures, I ask them for reviews. And then if I think their pictures are really, really good and I do want to show them, I'll ask them again. And sometimes they'll, they'll change their minds.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you're doing the best you can is when you ask yourself personally, they'll say you yes, you way more than they'll say it to the staff.
So, I think you're doing all the right things. I have always said give your patients their photos. They need their photos, they want them, they're going to show them. Even somebody who is absolutely private, they will still show them to at least three of their favorite people, you know? Absolutely.
Yeah. And nobody remembers what they used to look like unless you show it to them. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: So, Let me tell you that has, just giving them their pictures has made unhappy patients happy. I agree. You know, I don't really see a difference. Well, look at this. Wow, I looked like that. I had no idea. You know, they, because they think they're going to look like someone else.
There's this, this thought that if they have cosmetic surgery, it's going to completely change their look. Right. And they say, well, no one noticed. Well, what did people say? Well, they say that they, my hair makes me look younger. Well, they noticed. They just don't know what they noticed. And that's a great result.
And then you show them and they get it. Hopefully.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, true. So, what do you think in today's world, what would you say is one of the biggest challenges of being in a cosmetic practice or running one? Or keeping it competitive. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: What would you say is the biggest challenge in today's world? I think it, it's dealing with these angry patients.
I think that there's a lot of body dysmorphic. Mm-hmm. And we are terrible at, at figuring out who has it. We've done a study that showed that we all think we're great at it and we're terrible at it. I think there's a lot more psychopathology. And, you know, we have to be really, really careful with treating our patients because they, they will sometimes threaten you with bad reviews.
Mm-hmm. You know, if you don't give me my money back, I'm writing a bad review. And it's, it happens. I've had it happen and I'm sure everybody listening has had it happen. It's terrible. So, the patients today are very, very challenging. And I think that you have to go with your gut. If you have a bad feeling about a patient, try not to try not to operate on them or, or treat them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Or if your staff has a bad feeling too, I would listen to them because they oftentimes treat you differently than the staff, and you just want to know as much intel as you can before you say yes to that patient. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Absolutely. My staff has, has a code at the computer where they put a lot of stars. Yeah. And wonder, that means they don't like them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's so, funny, I always say, don't you have some kind of a code like a for angry, like a big a with a circle on it. And that tells we got a hot one here. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: A lot of stars. No one knows what stars mean. They think it's good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's really brilliant too. So, back to ps. As you, as the president, is there like one big like one big issue that you were trying to address during your presidency? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Is that too old?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: There, well, there's always. A lot of issues. Our academy itself has an issue with transparency. Mm-hmm. So, I'm working really, really hard at increasing the transparency of what we do, because we do so, much, but people don't know it. So, I'm doing videos, we're doing more e-blasts. We have a Facebook group.
And still people don't know what's going on, you know, I mean, we've done everything but smoke signals, you know? But, so, trying to get people more in the loop. And then what is really kind of fun is advocacy. We're writing, right now, we're working with UnitedHealthcare. They've developed a policy that is really not in the best interest of the patient, so, we're working with them to try to get the policy changed.
So those are some of the big things we're working on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That must be an act of God, huh? Changing policy. How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Can't imagine. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, they're very good at not communicating and making it impossible to communicate with them. It's, it's really how they hide behind everything. So, yeah.
So, it's a little bit at a time, but we're making some progress.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. So, I want to wrap it up now, and I like to wrap it up with this last question, which is tell us something we don't know about you.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Well, that's a very fun answer because you were not going to believe me. But the thing that you don't know about me is that I am ticket number 664 for Virgin Galactic, and I will probably get my space stride in about 2026 or 2027.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. That is amazing. Really?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Yeah. I bought a ticket.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I did not see that coming Dr. Kontis. I know, I know. Is there rude to ask? How much is it? How does this relate to you being the 2nd female President of AAFPRS?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Oh, it's a lot. A lot. It's a lot. But you know you work hard your whole life and you think, you know, what am I going to get out of all this work other than just the satisfaction of taking care of patients and, you know, I have a nice car and I have a nice home and you know, what do you need in life?
But that's a dream that I've always had and I thought, you know, I'm just going to do it. And I asked my husband if it was okay with him if I bought a ticket and he said there's no way he's going. But I did. And I'm really excited about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. You win for the most unusual answer. Oh, wow.
Good. My Lord.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Doesn't that give you something to look forward to?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: Oh, it does. And part of the training is that we got to do this zero-gravity flight. Oh. Where we, you go on this airplane that does parabolic flight, so, it goes up and then when it comes down, you're weightless. Oh. And so, you get to feel what it's like to be weightless and they do that for you so, that when you finally go to space, You can unhook your seatbelt and be weightless, but it's not the first time and you can actually enjoy looking at the earth from space and you know, you've already been weightless.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, unbelievable, that was fun. Unbelievable. Okay. Wow. If anybody has any questions for you or would like to contact you, how would they do so?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: They can email me: tckontis@aol.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: About the AOL.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I'm old.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Might want to Gmail.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: I know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's your website? ACW or something?
Theda C. Kontis, MD: www.ACWPlasticSurgery.com. Mm-hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Dr. Kontis, it has been an absolute pleasure. I will never re forget this. Yeah, now I think I need a really big goal because I didn't, I wasn't thinking that big. Okay. And then thank you so, much for being here. I will see you at an upcoming meeting, hopefully, and enjoy your presidency.
Congratulations.
Theda C. Kontis, MD: It's always a pleasure, Catherine. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Kontis is the 2nd female President of AAFPRS.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Kontis, you can reach out to her website at, www.ACWPlasticSurgery.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Kontis for sharing her wisdom as the 2nd female President of AAFPRS.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for β2nd female President of AAFPRS β with Theda C. Kontis, MD".
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#drthedakontis #thedakontismd #aafprspresident #aafprs
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to Dr. Katz has 50 lasers and devices.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "50 Lasers and Devices β with Bruce Katz, MD".
Non-surgical rejuvenation is a big deal.
The global non-invasive aesthetic treatment market size was valued at 61.2 billion in 2022 and is projected to expand at a compound annual growth rate of 15.40% from 2023 to 2030. (Resource: Grandviewresearch.com)
And, the most popular non-surgical procedures are Botox, Fillers, Fat Reduction, Skin Tightening, Skin Care Treatments.
So, I thought it would be interesting to have Dr. Bruce Katz, MD on the Beauty and the Biz podcast.
Dr. Katz is a board-certified dermatologist who practices dermatology, cosmetic, and laser surgery in Manhattan, Queens and worldwide.
Dr. Katz is a leading innovator and researcher performing clinical trials on advanced laser technology, cosmetic surgery, body contouring & dermatology.
We talked about the plethora of non-SX technologies entering the marketplace and what else is coming down the pike. Very exciting!
He also had great advice for those buying technology, so you actually make money from it (that was promised from the salesperson) ;-)
Visit Dr. Katz's website P.S. Please review!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
50 Lasers and Devices β with Bruce Katz, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Katz has 50 lasers and devices. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, I have a very special guest today because he's not a plastic surgeon, but he is a dermatologist and has experience with 50 lasers and devices. And it's Dr. Bruce Katz. He's a board- certified dermatologist who practices dermatology, cosmetic and laser surgery in Manhattan, Queens, as well as worldwide. Now, Dr. Katz is a leading innovator of advanced laser technology cosmetic surgery.
Body contouring, research and dermatology. He has more than 50 lasers and devices and has been treating more than 95k patients for their aesthetic needs. That's a lot. Dr. Katz is the director of the Juva Skin and Laser Center, and also the Juva Foundation Research Center that has been performing clinical studies for more than 20 years.
As a matter of fact, they have participated in over 70 studies. Dr. Katz, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Bruce Katz, MD: Thank you Catherine. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you just start us off by telling us describe your practice practices and the services you provide? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we're a cosmetic dermatology practice and we do a lot of fillers, toxins, a lot of laser work, body contouring work.
I was one who introduced Smart Lipo here in this country about 20 years ago now. And you know, we also do a lot of clinical research on all kinds of different technologies, whether it's lasers. We did actually the recent F D A trials for dify, the new toxin. We do filler studies as well. And also, you know, laser and body contouring studies too.
And then also we do big pharma type of studies on acne, eczema, psoriasis, and all kinds of you know, medical dermatology as well as cosmetic me, cosmetic dermatology and, and cosmetic surgery. And also, I I'm a clinical professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai here in New York, and I lecture nationally and internationally.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, do you ever sleep? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah, once in a while.
Catherine Maley, MBA: God. Okay, so, I, you know, I'm always curious to find out how can you manage the dermatology practices? I've done a lot of work with them because a lot of them want to take advantage of all of the quantity of people they have and turn them from medical to cosmetic, so, I'm very familiar with that.
But one of the challenges is it's such a busy practice with so, many people in it. Are you focused on like, how do you focus on medical and cosmetic and then don't you also do Mohs. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, I focus mostly on cosmetics. I have associates who do Mohs and also general dermatology. We do a lot of skin cancer work too.
Yeah, so, you know, my colleagues do the other type of more diverse procedures in medical dermatology and skin cancer work. And I focus mostly on cosmetic dermatology and cosmetic surgery, as well as laser surgery too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then the clinical studies, are those also done under the same roof as the cosmetic and the medical, or do you need to spread that out? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
I don't know how much space it takes to do that, butβ¦
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, we have three full-time people just doing our research at our center, and we have a large center in midtown Manhattan, about 5,000 square feet. Oh. So, we, we know, we also have a big area for our research studies too, which obviously you need, if you're running 10 and 12 studies at a time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that new doxy, I think it's called. Mm-hmm. How, how long does it last? Because we, people who love our Botox, the, our biggest complaint is, well, you know, could it last longer? What's the, what's the scoop on that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, the Scoop, Catherine, is, it does last longer, usually six to eight months, and I saw that in the clinical trial.
So, I don't think there's any question about it. I mean, it could vary in some people, but I think on average, you know, at least six months, some people even up to nine months in fact.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good. Well, keep, keep researching that. We need it to last longer than that too. All right. I just feel like I'm constantly getting my Botox done. I'd like to. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, now you can try something a little different. That'll last for certainly, certainly a lot longer.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is it available now worldwide? I mean not, not worldwide, but like easily distributed to everybody or is it still out there in the general distribution. Specifically? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we were, we were one of the, we were part of the group that was, you know, introduced to it initially.
Mm-hmm. You know, I guess to, you know, just try it out. Make sure there are, you know, no issues. But there certainly weren't, and now I think it's available around the country.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, terrific. All right. Now let's get back to, you run a pretty big boat there. You've got two locations, a lot, it sounds like three locations. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: A lot of people. actually, four now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh Lord. Okay, so, how many staff?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, we have about 45 people, you know, between the four offices now, so, it keeps us busy. But you know, we we're really organized, so, everything runs really smoothly. And we have a great team of people. My administrative people as well as our clinical team are great, our research team as well, and that's really important.
As I'm sure you know you know, you're in a consulting business, you know, your staff is what really makes your practice and. You know, the front office people are the face of your practice, so, they're really important as well. But you know, we have regular meetings. I think that's, that's imperative to communicate regularly.
And, and that's why we have a very smooth operation, I think.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. And you're absolutely right. I don't understand why there aren't more regular meetings. Just catching up with everybody and getting everyone on the same page. It just, it saves so, much time and hassle with miscommunication. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
And when you're not communicating, the staff will make stories up. You know, they did. They're, they're trying to communicate without you, and that's never a good idea. How did you find how. Didn't you have any trouble, like post co covid, post covid trying to get the right people in place. Have you had any issues with that or what's your secret to hiring the right people? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we had a great team, you know, even before Covid. Mm-hmm. But we did lose some people as a result. And it has been a little difficult getting new people to come in. But, you know, we try a variety of different ways to do it and, you know, often asking our current staff if they know people, friends or family as well.
And somehow, you know, we do get those people in. Mm-hmm. And fortunately, good people who manages everybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's no way you're doing that. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, no, I have a great, you know, front office manager and clinical manager. We also have, you know, great people in our, in our clinical staff as well to manage back office too.
So, it all works, you know, very well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, let me ask you to get the right people, right, but you, I mean, I would think you have different profit centers set up. Like you would have one for cosmetic, one for research, maybe one for Mohs. Is it like that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, that's true. We sell, sell products in our, in our practice as well.
That's another area. And we have person who supervises that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I'm going to ask you about that, but where I'm getting to is, are you still, so, are your kind of in silos? Like are, are those teams working separately or are you trying to develop this big mission statement and vision where everyone's under one roof all working together as a big team?
Or is it siloed? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, it's, it's, it's a little bit of both. In fact, I mean, we have one obviously great team that works together, but we have individuals that are responsible for certain areas. You know, one person is responsible, say for the products, and making sure that we keep the right inventory.
Another person is responsible for billing and, you know, making sure, you know, bills get paid. And also, you know, accounts receivable. So, we have these different. Buckets that, you know, people focus on and are responsible for. And then also in terms of research, we have a manager of our research, our research director, and he is responsible for making sure that the studies are done properly and that patients come in, subjects come in and come in regularly.
So, it, it's, you know, pretty well-oiled machine I'd say.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. You had mentioned skincare and I noticed online you have your own skincare store. Mm-hmm. Give me your thoughts on that. Has it been a revenue stream? Has it been okay? Has it been a great idea? Like, where are you at with that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, it's certainly a, a very substantial revenue stream.
We use Shopify, which, which is a great technology to help us with that. And You know, it's, we have a variety of different private label products and also other, you know, proprietary products that we promote as well. It depends on, you know, what we need, which, you know, what, what products we think are best in their class, and we go for that, whether it's private label or proprietary.
You know, we always want to find the best products, the newest and the most advanced that will give our patients the best results.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's really interesting what you're saying because most practices say, oh, I'm selling, I, I have a skincare line. And I say, well, how, how's it going? And they say, well, the staff won't sell it.
And you're saying you're not even necessarily marketing to your own patients. You're, you went Shopify, you went to the world like are you on Amazon, kind of thing. Like can they find you on Amazon? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: No, we're on Google actually. We're not on Amazon. Google has also, you know, promotion of, of products.
You know, we don't want to be, you know, I think Amazon is a great venue, but you know, patients can call. Our office or email us and we send them products. You know, we have clientele all over the world, so, you know, they can come to the office to pick up a, you know, a product when they run out.
Mm-hmm. So, we have a great team that just deals with taking care of product sales and making sure when people need more of those products, that we send it to them and, and they, they get it. They don't have to worry about going to Amazon or elsewhere. So, it's very easy for them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Do you, do you think though, that most of the revenue is coming from your current patients who know you, or have you put enough into Google, I don't know if you're doing PPC or some kind of advertising, to get the public in general to buy it? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Do you know?
Bruce Katz, MD: I say the majority is our own patients. Gotcha. Okay. We do have some people who call us who, you know, may have heard about their products from friends or family. Mm-hmm. But I say the majority are really just from our patient population. We don't really try to sell. To the public. Generally, as you know, that's a very competitive space and the margins are extremely razor thin.
So, and I don't think it's really an area that we can compete in, to tell you the truth, because all the big brands, you know, have a lot more marketing Cloud than we do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why honestly when I see doctors putting a whole bunch of money into their skincare website. I just say, you know what, let's, let's just, just, if you want to be practical about this, when I look at your revenues by procedure, it's never been more than 2% of overall revenues.
You know, skincare is never more than 2%. And I say, let's just put it in perspective though. If it's 2%, then spend 2% of your time and your staff's time. And your resources on that, but the rest, you know, go somewhere else where there, where there's more money to be made. It's so, competitive. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, I think you're absolutely right, Catherine.
From what I've heard, I mean, I could be wrong, but even from what I've heard from Dr. Lines or quote Dr. Yeah. Lines that are carried in Sephora. Yeah. Or in Bloomingdales, or. Other, you know, retail places. Yeah, I hear that. They, they find it very hard. They have to pay for all their own marketing in, in those stores.
They have to have their own little sections that they have. They have to hire their own people. And I would think that, you know, the profits are extremely thin for all the effort that goes into it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly, unless you can somehow hook up with the pharma group, you know that you need a pharma budget, frankly, in today's world.
Right. Get that to happen. Yes. So, regarding any mistakes you've made, like, because you have been around a really long time and you've done it all and you've worked with vendors, you've worked with pharma, you've worked with PR agencies, you've worked with a bunch of staff like, and all the research that goes into.
That's a whole other world as well. Like what, what would be your advice to others who maybe are thinking about doing research but also doing their own private practice? Is it viable to try to do both when you're like a solo practitioner? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: You know, that's a very, that's a very important question that you raise and I think, I think you know, a lot of my success over the years, And you know, we are always looking to introduce the newest technologies to our patients and we get a lot of media attention for doing that.
But where does it come from? And it actually comes from the research we do. And a lot of people don't understand that. But if you come out. Say with, you know, you, you're doing research on a, on a new technology, take Taxify for example. So, you know, that was, you know, really a breakthrough technology compared to the other toxins available.
Cause it lasts a lot longer. You know, we did the clinical trials, the f a trials, we were one of the sites that did that. So, we are first to market as a result because we have the experience. People don't come to us because they hear that. You know, we've treated 40 patients even before it was FDA approved in the clinical trial.
So, that gives us a lot of credibility, right, right away. And then the media. Calls us because they know we have experience and we can talk to them about how it actually works and how does it feel for patients? Does it feel any different? Does it act any differently than other toxins? So, by doing the research, and I, and I can repeat this for so, many other technologies that we've introduced over the years, Catherine, you know, Cul, for example, another breakthrough technology, the first to build muscle of any body contour in treatment.
Well, we did the F D A trials there. We've done many studies on cul, cul neo, and other technologies in that, in that sphere. Smart lipo. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I was the first to do that. I introduced it to this country and did the first FDA trials for it, and we got huge media attention. As a result, and that helps our practice.
But it all came from the research, and this has been true of other technologies we've used over the, that we've done research on over the years. And then, you know, we use also for marketing and PR.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I used to do a lot of pr well, decades ago because it was so, new and, you know, new and it was just so, new and, and nobody knew anything or much about it, the consumers didn't.
And it was very easy to call. I could literally pick up a call, pick up the phone, call the station manager of my local radio or my ro local tv and then I'd say, okay, what do you think about this story? And they'd be like, Sounds good. Maybe next week, you know, call me back. And nowadays you, there's nothing else to say.
So, the secret is because you have so, much PR on your website and you are definitely the innovator and the thought leader and your, I can see why the media would go to you because of the research. You didn't just pay to play. You didn't just get a PR company and say, okay. Give me, get me some pr and they'll be like, well, what's our topic?
Like, what, what can we, what does the all the PR people or the media channels care about is what's new for their audience. Exactly. And the only thing that's new is what you've been researching. So, you have the, you're on the front line there. So, that's, that's the secret. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Good for you. Oh yeah. Well, that's, and that's given us a lot of currency.
Another example right now is M Face, that's the new technology for facial lift and building muscle on the face as well. Another similar to M Scope, but for the face, we just did an interview. It'll be coming out tomorrow on Hollywood Life. That's you know, a big website. They get 30 million eyeballs every month.
Mm-hmm. And all, cause you know, I, one of the people at Hollywood Life tried it out at our office. And they had great results. So, they wrote a story about it. And that gives us a, also a lot of exposure for this new technology as well. And that only came out in the last few months. But that's very important, very important to be first to market.
That really Right. Gives you a big advantage compared to your, your competitors. And again, it just comes from the research.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But the holy Grail for us women who are aging, especially women, men too, but you, you know, you can only have so, many facelifts and, or you don't want a facelift and you just, you're, you're afraid or whatever.
If that really, honestly, does it really work? Like, are we talking. Noticeable results are so, subtle that you wouldn't notice, like, oh yeah. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: No, you see, you see noticeable results. No question about it. Great thing about it. Also, it's non-invasive. Mm-hmm. It's a 20-minute treatment. You do four treatments, you know, once a week, and people love the results.
I mean, they, they can see it right away.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. And is the last thing, how long. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, we think it'll probably last at least a year. Oh, okay. As have the other mco treatments. And then, you know, you probably do maintenance once or twice a year. The 20 minutes each time is pretty easy. Right, because painful.
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Sometimes I have watched a lot of these where you have to have multiple treatments. Like remember sculpture, you had to have three treatments. The patient journey is tough because the patient journey was you have a sculpture treatment. Then your face is fairly puffed out, like you have some swelling and you look fantastic.
Then it goes away. Then you have to go back and get another one. Then it layers onto that and again, you have a beautiful. Affect treatment and, but then it goes away. Then the third one, you know, supposedly builds that up. The problem is, is half the patients won't get through all three. You know, so, that's one of the issues is the, I love the non-invasive, but there's a cost to that, and that is time, you know, and repetition.
So, it's just, I just find this so, fascinating. Like, what are you finding in the industry, like surgical versus nonsurgical? How much has that changed in, in the world, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, I think you know what really talks to that is the fact that a lot of plastic surgeons are now doing these treatments.
Right? Right. Because obviously they know people want try dose first. You know, we know surgery does. You know plastic surgeons do great work and their results are amazing, but a lot of people, you know, particularly women today who are working, you know, juggling, you know, family life and the workplace as well, find it really hard to do surgery when, you know, they may be just having early changes.
They may be getting a little bit of jowling, a little laxity of the neck, perhaps, you know, some, you know, looseness around the eyes. And they're not ready for surgery. So, what do they do? You know, they want to have these treatments that are non-invasive, no downtime. 20 minutes to half an hour each. So, it's very easy, you know, I mean, we're in Midtown, so, our patients find it very, very easy to come to us.
We're on 56th and Park and you know, they could just jump in at lunchtime, have these treatments and go right back to work rather than taking off two weeks after a facelift or, you know, other major plastic surgery procedure. And they, you know, not, are not necessarily ready for that. Mm-hmm. And even if they see a plastic surgeon, They'll be told that as well, that, you know, that little bit of Jing or a little laxity of the neck doesn't warrant a deep, plain facelift.
Mm-hmm. But you know, plastic surgeons now are offering these non-invasive treatments cause they realize instead of losing that patient, say, well, you're not ready. You know, chow River, dci. You know, we can offer you something in the meantime like evoke, which is another type of radiofrequency technology to tighten the jowls or tighten the neck or another, you know, m face treatment to give you a lift to the face where you may be getting a little bit of a droop.
And they don't lose the patient. They keep them in their practice until they're ready for a facelift and then they see that plastic surgeon. So, you know, it's not, you know, one or the other anymore. It's really a combination of doing both. You offer people, you know, early on with the early changes, non-invasive, even though they have to come in several times for the treatment, they're fine with doing that because they're not losing any time from work or their family.
Mm-hmm. And I think that's a reasonable approach.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And in, and in addition to that, after you've had a facelift, it never stops. The aging process never stops, and nobody wants to go through it again if they don't have to. So, if these treatments, you can get that patient at the beginning when they're just thinking about surgery, but they're not ready yet.
The, they're worth thousands of dollars to you while they're thinking about it. Then they, even if they have the facelift, they're worth many thousands afterwards. Trust me, I'm this patient. Well, that'll keep coming back trying to keep that facelift in order, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah. It's so, right. And also, I think by starting early on with these noninvasive, you can actually delay having a facelift because you're stimulating collagen.
The changes aren't, you know, as dramatic as they would've been had you not started with the noninvasive earlier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Just out of curiosity, I feel like I'm doing a consultation with you. It, it used to be, you know, I was around for therapy and the other one, Thermage, and just her, the pain threshold was ridiculous.
Has, have they done anything about that? Has the new technology become less painful? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh yeah. Well, those, those technologies are really old technologies, Catherine, but the new ones are not painful. They feel mostly like a warm massage I'll take that, have much more advanced, you know, energy sources.
Mm-hmm. So, you don't have the pain that you would from the whole therapy particularly. That was, you know, I tried it early on when it first came out and I felt the pain. They were treating my face. I felt the pain in my feet, how intense it was. But and also, You know, with homage it's not as painful, but you need to have, you know, a technician working on that person for 40 minutes.
You know, with the pandemic in the last few years, a lot of people who came into our practice didn't want someone working on them cause they're concerned about getting sick. So, these certain, these particular companies like BTL in mode, they developed these hands-free technologies and sign was sculpture as well.
They develop these hands-free technologies, so, we just put the applicators on their face, their neck or their body, and walk out of the room and the patient can sit there, they can read emails, they can listen to music, read a book, and, and not, they're not in pain, but they don't have someone hovering over them for 40 minutes and worried about getting sick.
Yeah. So, that's been a major. I think sequela of the pandemic, which has been very positive because it also is very beneficial for the practice. You don't have to give up one of your staff to perform a procedure for a half an hour or 40 minutes when you can just put on the equipment, the applicators, walk out of the room and let them do something else or treat another patient and not have them only devoted to one patient for 40 minutes.
So, saves you staff time as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Aren't you? It's shocking how far the technology has come. Mm-hmm. Just so, many options now and then they, they're trying to do this, do it yourself at home. What do you think about that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know, those, those technologies are so, dumbed down. Yeah. Because, you know, you know, the companies don't want people to get burned or scarred.
Right. They really have very little benefit and, you know, from laser hair removal to skin rejuvenation with l e d light. Or the helmets to grow hair. You know, they're all, they're all so, you know, modest. In terms of benefits, I would say they may work a little bit. But it takes many, many sessions, you know, hours a week to do these treatments.
So, most people eventually give, give it up. It's the same ideas, you know, you know women when, when hair coloring came out in the pharmacy, so, women could buy, and guys also, they can buy their own hair coloring. Hair coloring. Do it at home. Save money, not go into the salon. What happened? Well, you know, eventually they got stained all over their bathrooms and, you know, splatter everywhere and they went back to the salons and had it done in the salons.
So, you know, they, patients who come back after trying these things at home come back to our offices and realize that, you know, even though they have to spend some time in our office, they get much more beneficial effects and more efficacy as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it sounds like the theme is tightening, you know, like it's, it's tightening.
Would you, the research you're doing right now, is there anything coming up the pike soon that you could tell us about or down the road? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: I can't tell you about it, but there are, I could tell you that there are things definitely, you know, coming up the turnpike and they keep getting better and better, you know, more efficacy with minimal downtime.
Shorter treatment times as well. So, there, there's new technologies coming along all in a pipeline.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's what we're all looking for as a consumer patient. No downtime, no scarring, no pain. Oh yeah, that, that's, that's what we need because we're also darn busy. I, I don't have a week, I don't have a week to take off and hide anymore, you know, if I can get up and running again in a day.
That's the, that's where the money is. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I can tell you, you know, right now about one new technology for tightening, please. That is just coming out and it's called Micro Corine. It's actually by a company called Cires, and it actually takes away tiny little pieces of skin without causing any scarring and with minimal downtime.
So, it's actually removing tissue, you know, up till now. The way we did skin tightening was basically trying to stimulate collagen to tighten the skin. Mm-hmm. But we didn't remove skin, you know, aside from surgery now we actually can take away tiny little discs of tissue, almost microscopic, without causing scarring.
And as these little wounds heal, the skin tightens. So, that's a whole new technology. And you know, some say it can actually take away as much tissue on the face as a facelift does.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding. Yeah. All right. When's that going to happen? Because I need, I need that.
Bruce Katz, MD: We'll be getting that probably in the next month.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. That soon?
Bruce Katz, MD: Test out. So, I'll let you know and you want to come in, check it out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Please. I'll be right over. Yeah. Even though I'm California, you're in New York. That would be worth the trip over. All right, so. Lately I've been talking to a lot of surgeons who have been around a long time and they're contemplating their exit strategy.
And I just want to, I, you may be or may not be, but I'm just hearing so, much about how do you exit from this industry profitably, you know, and comfortably. Mm-hmm. Now are you the mindset you're going to stay until the bitter end? Are you going to. Do you have a plan for exiting? Are you going to sell to private equity? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Like what? Any thoughts on that that you want to share? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, I can tell you, you know, my former partner, Dr. Alexander Fisher, was also a very famous dermatologist. Mm-hmm. And he worked till he was 91. So, I have a legacy to fulfill here, Catherine. So, check with me in about 15 or 20 years. I'll let you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why you're exercising. Yeah, keep that. Keep stay on that electrical machine.
But do you have any, like, just regarding the business side, do you have any advice for the newbies coming up, or guys who've been in solo practice and they're just trying to figure out how to grow or how to scale? Like let's say they're tired of medical and they want to get more into the cosmetic side.
Any advice for any of them on how to not just enter the market, but how to position yourself in the market to your benefit? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: You know, I think it's really important to become expert at one procedure at a time. Mm-hmm. That's the best way to start some. Mm-hmm. Some young doctors try to do a variety of different things and they don't really do any particular thing really well, and that doesn't really help grow their practice because patients may not be completely satisfied.
So, they don't talk to other patients. I think, you know, that's, that's the first thing to be doing. You know, one, learn one thing at a time, get expert at it, and then do the marketing. You know, we do a lot of social media. We have seven different platforms that we, we market on social media. Our Instagram if people want to check it out, is @JuvaSkinAndLaserCenter.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're doing a good job on that. You've got a nice following going. So, are you putting that time in? I mean, you're in there, but you can tell you're not. I mean, you're not spending a lot of time. No, no. Preparing it. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: I have a person who does great job with that. And she runs all those sites. And then she also works with our in-house marketing person, who also does a great job.
And, you know, we do a lot of videos, as you know. Yep. As your specialty, I'm sure. Yeah. Telling, you know, docs to do lots of videos or procedures they do, talking about new technologies or what's new in there, in their particular practices. So, we do a lot of work there and also, Helping to develop a, a network a marketing.
And I think a media network is critical. So, once a young doctor starts out, they should try to develop relationships with people in the media. And, you know, I just fell into it many years ago because of the new technologies that, you know, I was coming out with and. 20 years ago when I camp with Smart Lipo, I had People Magazine approached me about the story cause they happened to be at a meeting.
I was lecturing out in London and I had a five-page spread on in People Magazine about Smart Lipo. And I had patients coming in from all over the world for the next two or three years to do, you know, liposuction. So, but you know, trying to curry. Relationships, develop relationships with the media is really important because like you mentioned earlier, you know, I think the media, people call it Feed the Beast.
They're always trying to feed the beast, you know, talk about new stories, you know, scoop their competitors cause they're competing as well as, as doctors are competing against other doctors, while media people are competing against other similar outlets To get to the newest stories out first. So, by creating a media network, which, you know, fortunately over the years we've developed, so, when we come out with something new, I can just call them or I say, come in and try it.
Say how you like it. And then they decide if they want to do a story about it. I don't pressure them, I want them to, you know, give an honest appraisal and not say, this works when it really doesn't. And I don't want to ever present a technology that doesn't work to a media person. Cause you know, They're not going to do a, a good story.
And if they do a good story about it and it's really isn't effective, patients are going to come in and be unhappy. So, you want to be honest with the media. Don't ever try to, you know, put something over them about a technology that you're just trying to promote, even though you know it doesn't do very much.
Mm-hmm. Because they'll figure it out and, and you'll end up getting negative feedback as a result.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How important is the Mass media pr. I'm from before the, the good, the goods, like the TV and the magazines and the newsprint versus the new world today of digital. Have you changed your approach on PR and media now that everything seems to have gone online? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Oh, yeah. You have to make, make a big change. I mean, you know, years ago, I'd say probably even five or six years ago, still the most effective media was tv. And, you know, we did a lot of tv. I was on the view all the time. Mm. You know, the Today Show, good Morning America, CNN, and that gave us huge exposure, right?
People coming from over the country, internationally. But in the last five or six years, that's pretty much dried up. I mean, TV still works if you know, if you're lucky to get that. But it's been harder and harder because they're not doing. That many cosmetic stories anymore, and they're leaving it more to their.
They're digital out outlets. So, some, you know, whereas the View may have done a lot of cosmetic things years ago, and we would actually do live procedures on the view, we would treat sunspots with a laser or do a laser resurfacing on someone live on, on the show. Mm-hmm. But today, you know, they may do a, a video of it on their, on their website or on their, you know, Instagram.
But they don't do it on their, on the actual program anymore. So, it's really digital, you know, and social media. I mean, that's really where it is, where it's at today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: In terms of marketing, how much of your own time is spent on social, creating that content? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: I don't really create any of it. Good. I just have our, our, our people do it and they do a great job.
You know, they ask me to do videos and I'll do videos. I'm always happy to, you know, to talk about the latest things. And I encourage them to do stories about, you know, what's new in our practice, what, what we're doing, you know, that's interesting. Or we're even talking about, you know, how to, I'm going to do a video tomorrow on how to make the change in skincare from winter to s to, you know, warmer weather.
Of course, that's, you know, something that a lot of people contending with right now as the weather gets warmer. So, it's not always about just new things that we're doing, but also things that are important to our patients in terms of their own lifestyles. There's,
Catherine Maley, MBA: In today's world, I almost think if you're going to play the game, especially in the jungle you are in in New York you almost have to have a marketing team.
You have to have somebody who understands digital, somebody who understands social you know, someone's got your website covered and that content because your website you have a killer website with tons of content on it. And that doesn't happen by accident. Somebody's got to do all of that, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you say you have more a bigger marketing team now than you ever did before? Because it's so, mandatory to be everywhere.
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, certainly, you know, in terms of, you know, adding digital and social media. Yes. Mm-hmm. But we've always had, you know, someone doing our marketing. I mean, that's, it's like any other business in a competitive field, particularly in a market like New York.
Everyone has to do that. Yeah. But you know, it's, I think it's also important to mention that you can't just. You know, hire someone to do it or let them run with it. The doctor has to also be, you know, in communication, you know, we meet once a week, sometimes even more frequently. I meet with my, not only my research team, but also with our marketing team and making sure that, you know, they're, we're all on the same page.
They give us a review of what they're working on, and before anything goes out of my office, I review it. So, nothing goes out to the media. Nothing goes out in social media or e-blasts without me or one of my associates who, you know, are providers in a practice reviewing things because sometimes marketing people may not get it right, and you don't want something to come out that's inaccurate or misinformation or, you know, not true.
So, you know, it's always a point. You can't just say, run with it and not be involved. The doctors have to be involved too. That's very important.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But then you have the public coming at you when you do pr and you have a big name out there and you throw a big net out. Now you have to deal with the response to that.
And have you found that the patients are a lot different in today's world? A lot flakier like I've noticed like for example, plastic surgery, they can have 1100 leads. I just saw this the other day, 1100 leads and. All, you know, the journey from the time they call to the time they come in, to the time they have their console, to this time they say yes was 12.
So, they went from really 1100 to 12 paying procedures. And all I can say is that's a lot of work. Talk about a needle in a haystack to find the, the 12 that wanted to give you money. Do you, are you finding that yourself that there's a lot more quantity but not as much substance? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: You know, I think it's probably truer in plastic surgery because you're talking about much bigger ticket items.
Yeah. Whereas here, you know, in, in dermatology, you know, someone comes in to have a Botox treatment. First of all, we tell them, you know, if you don't like it, it doesn't last anyway. So, you don't have to worry about committing to a procedure that you have live with for forever. Right. And it's, you know, a few hundred dollars.
So, it's not a terribly expensive procedure that they have to really. Think about for months at a time. Whereas on a facelift or a breast dog or lipo, you know, people will, will spend more time considering it. I find that to be the case in my liposuction patients. Mm-hmm. You know, they'll come in, we'll do an evaluation, a consultation, examination, and then they may take, you know, a few weeks to decide.
Mm-hmm. But then again, you know, We could also tell when people are just shopping, right? And, you know, we know that that's not going to be a, you know, we're not going to close that deal. So, I think you have to just, you know, put your emphasis on ones that are realistic and more likely to, to close. And then also make sure that your staff follow follows up.
You know, I have, I, I know, you know, not just plastic surgeons, but dermatologists who see patients for cosmetic procedures and never follow up. With them if they don't make the appointment right away or if they don't make it, you know, don't call back. So, it's important to have a person usually, you know, it's ours.
Or cosmetic care or surgical coordinator who does the follow up and tracks it on a sales spreadsheet. And now does certain, you know, touch points over, you know, two or three times after that visit, after two or three, you know, contacts. If they're not interested, you just. Say dead end, but, but it's important to do the follow up because sometimes people may not have un understood something correctly in the consultation, or they weren't clear about, you know, what, what, what's really involved in terms of follow up and, and recovery.
So, by having someone follow up that might actually change the, the nature of their, of their opinion, and then they actually close on the deal. And they make the appointment and have the surgery. So, I think follow up is, is as important as you know, the actual consultation for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, what about the competition in your world?
It's been. Fairly commoditized. I mean, the patients think that they can get Botox anywhere or they can get laser treatment anywhere. Do you deal with that? Or you're so, you know, you're so, branded that you don't have that issue. Like people go to, you just, they're going to pay what they, they pay whatever you want because they, because it's you.
Do you have that issue where you're losing patience to the competition, you know? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Not really. I mean, I think in New York they, you know, there obviously are, you know, the non-doctors who are doing these procedures in spas. But you know, I think it's so, busy overall and I think, you know, we also, you know, our, we, we don't have.
A real cutthroat competition with be between dermatologists and plastic surgeons, or, you know, between dermatologists and dermatologists. We all get along really well. We, we talk to each other. You know, you've been in our meetings where it's multidisciplinary and our plastic surgeons, facial plastics, oculoplastics, and dermatologists, we're all buddies.
We lecture together we do research together. I re do a lot of research on cosmetic procedures and laser procedures with plastic surgeons. Very well-known ones as well, and we all get along really well, so, and we refer to each other. So, I just had a re referral from a plastic surgeon today because someone had a bad procedure and asked me to evaluate them.
And vice versa. And I'll refer, you know, to plastic surgeons for conditions I may not want to treat or I don't feel, you know, we have the right treatment, they need surgery. So, I know it's different, other parts of the country where, you know, there are turf battles like that. So, but you know, I think, you know, for the most part patients come to us and they have treatments that are appropriate.
And we don't really lose them to non-physicians.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Good for you. And lastly, I wanted to ask you about your podcast. Are you still doing that? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: We do it, you know, periodically. I just have been so, busy lately. I just haven't had a time with, you know, doing the videos and social media and tracking those things and lecturing.
I was just in Hawaii, lecturing in Miami, going to Phoenix next week. Mm. So, it's just it's like you mentioned earlier, it's hard keeping track of everything. But you know, It's all fun. We still have a great time. What we're doing, it's, I don't consider it work. I, I'm always looking forward to getting to the office every day and we're really blessed to be in this industry where we have so, many new things happening and never becomes routine.
You know, there are new things happening, whether it's in plastic surgery, dermatology, lasers, fillers, toxins. It never gets boring and that's really an amazing position to be in. So, we are very fortunate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But the nuance there is it doesn't get boring because you stay in the game. You are not just sitting in your office, you are everywhere.
You know, you're still playing games. Yeah. Everywhere, everything and learning all the new technologies. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: And all at once.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But but I mean, you're, you're, that's how you keep it interesting. You know, you're, you're really learning what is going to happen in the world. Like how do you see this playing out as an aesthetic patient? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Like, do you see it changing dramatically where we're not going to do surgery half as much as we used to, or how do you see this? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Well, you know with all due respect to my plastic surgery colleagues, we all know that that's coming. You know, that it's going to be less and less invasive over the next few years.
And to the point where, you know, I don't think. People with extreme, you know, loose necks or jowls down to here you know, boobs down to here also are not going to need surgery. They're going to still need surgery. But for people who don't have as severe changes and because people are starting a lot younger to have these non-invasive preventive treatments, even we see kids.
In their twenties are getting a little tiny wrinkle. Rico, they're come in for Botox. We call it rejuvenation. Yeah. Which is actually, you know, some people say, well, that's a, a little bit ridiculous. But it really isn't because we know muscle movements continue over time. So, those lines are going to get deeper and deeper.
And eventually I've had patients come in and say they want to have Botox when they have ingrained, etched in. Lines in a frown area or horizontal forehead lines and you do Botox and it doesn't do anything because they're etched in. And there's no way, even by relaxing a muscle that, that, you know, that wrinkles going to go away, or those wrinkles are going to go away.
So, they need to have laser surgery or, or regular surgery. So, by coming in earlier and earlier, they're going to need less and less invasive treatments later on. So, there'll be a few patients who need. Facelifts and brow lifts breast work, you know, that may continue to be the same case, but also even body contouring.
Mm-hmm. We see it already, you know, there's less numbers of liposuction cases, and we see that in my own practice because we're doing noninvasive fat reduction, noninvasive skin tightening muscle toing, non-invasive muscle toing, cellulite treatments, so, there's less need for the invasive procedures.
So, I think that's going to continue and it's going to get even more advanced and more effective with less and less downtime.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I mean, it's so, good for the consumer. Not so, good for the plastic surgeons probably down the road, but, mm-hmm. I've also heard a liposuction that's going to be done by robot, you know, robotic lipo.
It's like, what? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Yeah. Well, that's, that's possible. Yeah. I may don't even need liposuction at all if we can take away fat. Well, that's a good point. One area which we're getting to now. With Nia, we can take 30% of the fat layer away in four treatments, which is more than any other technology out there.
Only cause they, they combined with, you know, they two energy sources. So, it's getting there every day. So, it's more, more exciting and a lot more fun. But the plastic surgeons are never going to starve, you know? Yeah. They're going to be taken, you know, up with all these. Noninvasive procedures too. So, whereas their surgery may reduce in number, in number of procedures, they're going to be offering these noninvasive treatments to offset the lack of surgery if they're smart.
Right. Which I think they are. And they're doing that already. So, I know that is the case
Catherine Maley, MBA: for sure. So, we're going to wrap it up. Why don't you tell us something we don't know about you.
Bruce Katz, MD: Something you don't know about me? Well, you know, I have I just had two twin grandsons. Oh. Excited about just a year ago.
They're the loves of my life right now. Are they identical? Two little boys. Twin boys, fraternal twins. So, that's something people don't know, but you know, that's really exciting, and you know no one will be able to steal away my social media director. You know, why?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Why?
Bruce Katz, MD: Because she's my wife and she does a great job with our social media.
She's a graphic designer and she does all the social media. So, that's something that people may not know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I say this all the time, marry βsmartβ. If you, if you're going to be in business, Mary Smart, you look at that, push your wife to work and she stays in the practice. And who better represents you than your wife? How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
She knows you definitely, she knows you what you like, what you don't like. That's such a great idea. Anytime you can get your wife to, to run the show. In the practice.
Bruce Katz, MD: Absolutely. And she goes to all the meetings. Also, Catherine and Yeah. Does some videos and all our, you know, colleagues at the meetings know her.
All the companies know her because they all follow her on our social media. We have the CEOs of major cosmetic companies, filler companies that follow her on social media because that's how impactful it is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. You have something to talk about after 40 years of being married or whatever. How did this impact your expertise and procurement of 50 lasers and devices?
Bruce Katz, MD: Exactly. Right. Exactly right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know your website is www.juvaskin.com. J u v a. And if somebody wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do that?
Bruce Katz, MD: So, I'll give you, first of all, our Instagram handle is @juvaskinandlasercenter, Juva Skin and Laser Center, and my phone number is (212) 688-5882
Welcome to call anytime.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Katz has 50 lasers and devices.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Katz, you can reach out to his website at, www.JuvaSkin.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Katz for sharing his experience on using 50 lasers and devices.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for β50 Lasers and Devices β with Bruce Katz, MD".
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#drbrucekatz #brucekatzmd #brucekatzdermatologist #manhattandermatologist
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to Dr. Chernoff performs 700 β 1000 surgeries per year.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "700 β 1000 Surgeries Per Year β with Gregory Chernoff, MD".
Some surgeons have two locations usually about an hour apart. They do that to capture a bigger market share than they can with only one office.
However, this weekβs podcast guest performs 700 β 1000 surgeries per year in his two practices located in two different states that are 2,200 miles apart.
My latest Beauty and the Biz podcast guest was Dr. Greg Chernoff. Heβs a cosmetic surgeon in private practice in Santa Rosa, CA AND Indianapolis, IN.
We talked about how he manages his time so he can do surgery every day in 2 different parts of the country AND sit on several medical, scientific, and editorial advisory boards, while maintaining his health and marriage. (Hint: He loves what he does and he invests in outside counsel).
Dr. Chernoff also talked about the latest technologies to watch for that will revolutionize the aesthetic industry (Hint: Regenerative innovations).
Visit Dr. Chernoff's website P.S. Please review!
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Transcript:
700 β 1000 Surgeries Per Year β with Gregory Chernoff, MD
Catherine Maley, MD: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Chernoff performs 700 β 1000 surgeries per year. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, I'm really excited about today's guest because I've known him forever. It's Dr. Greg Chernoff who will be sharing how he performs 700 β 1000 surgeries per year. Now, he's a cosmetic surgeon in private practice in Santa Rosa, California, which is maybe an hour up from where I'm at now, and he performs 700 β 1000 surgeries per year. He's been in practice for over 30 years. He's authored several papers and studies from his extensive research, and he's given over 700 lectures and teaches his innovative techniques to surgeons all over the world.
Now, he sits on several medical and scientific advisory as well as editorial boards, and he's a member of several medical societies. He also gives back to Survivors of Violence Foundation that helps men, women, and children who have injuries and scars as a result of violent acts, abuse, illness, or birth defects.
Dr. Chernoff, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Gregory Chernoff, MD: It's a pleasure to be here. Catherine, as you mentioned, I've known you for a long time and your quality as well has been unwavering, soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MD: Thanks for that. I really appreciate it. Now, a lot of people don't know you. You came from Canada and I'm always fascinated with Canadian medicine because it's very different from our medicine down here. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
But you're more innovative. I think you're more bureaucratic, but almost more innovative as well. So, what brought you, how did you get here from Canada? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, I did my medical school in Canada. I did my residency in Canada, and then after residency you can do one-on-one training years called Fellowship. So, I, I initially came to Indianapolis and did a microvascular breast body fellowship.
And then after that came to U C S F and did a facial plastic fellowship. I returned Indianapolis opened my practice there. And two years after that my, my fellowship director of Larry Schrock died too young at 58. Oh no. So, he had operated the day before he died, I was asked to come back to, to take care of his post-op patients.
So, I came back with the intention of keeping his practice open so, that they'd have something to sell. I, I knew the patients, and so, most of them said, well, why don't you buy it? So, that was over 30 years ago. So, it's really, it's given me the, the privilege of doing what I love the most, and that's operating every day.
Between Indianapolis and Santa Rosa, we do upwards of 750 to a thousand cases a year. So, it just gives us a great volume of, of nice people to take care of. In addition, 2020 5% of. My practice has stayed dedicated to research. We continue to be alpha, beta test sites for majority of the, of the laser energy companies in many of the cosmetic and drug companies.
So, when we do studies, it gives us a great bell curve distribution of, of all the different skin types. Probably 40% of my practice in, in Indiana is African American, 30 to 40% in, in the North Bay would be Asian, Mediterranean, Hispanic. So, Just a nice bell curve of people to take care. So, how
Catherine Maley, MD: do you, how do you manage a practice when you're there half the time and do you have like extenders who are keeping it going and keeping the money in with the non-surgical while you're somewhere else doing surgery and, and how, how are you managing that? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, you, you really couldn't do multiple locations first and foremost without a, without a business plan. And without financial advisors, the key being for whom you listen to. Because I think the, the, the biggest problem with most doctors is that most doctors think they're good business people, but they're not.
And the, the more frightening part is they don't know what they don't know, right? So, we have a, we have a great business plan, second and second, and tied to that are, are great people around me. Julie has been my, my office manager and office nurse for 30 years in Indianapolis. Annette's been my operating room nurse for 30 years in Indie and, and in Santa Rosa.
We have a, we have a, a tremendous lineup of people who, who really take good care of me. I take very good care of them as well as just like family. But I think that's the key is surrounding yourself with people who always have your back and, and in return you always have their back as.
We're having that kind of longevity.
Catherine Maley, MD: Honestly, most of the top practices I work with or know of, there's usually that, that continuity person there, that one who has been there from the, from the beginning through thick and thin, they know it inside and out, and the trust level is over the top. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: Yeah, definitely Julie. I always tease people at, when I give OC, I tell them from a business standpoint, the first thing that they need to do if they're starting is to find their Julie in their office. Julie for me has been the sister I never had, and I'm the brother she never wanted.
Catherine Maley, MD: So, how much are your, I mean, I know you're doing crazy amounts of surgery is like, is that a good revenue stream for you to have both the surgical profit center for you, but then the non-surgical with you extend is that. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: No question because as, as part of your business plan, it has to be what, what will happen when you decide that you are, are ready for your exit strategy. And in, in this day and age patients you know, one step back, as you know, through the years that there's such a difference between taking good care of patients and just doing things to people.
But patients these days in the aesthetic realm, they, they appreciate one stop shopping. So, our patients know that they can come to us if it's for a little mole that they want biopsied. If they have unwanted pigment, if they have if they want to improve the tone, quality, clarity of their skin, a above the, the, the shoulders if they have unwanted fat, cellulite, skin laxity, poor muscle tone below the below the neck as well.
They like to know that that we offer. And it, it's really nice. Remember with, with all of these machines, there's always a gm Ford Chrysler. Nice. And so, having, having your story because again, it's all, it's all about what you portray in, in your book to patients. And so, having good reasons why you are using whatever you're using.
But in the exit strategy, if you looked at our p and l's monthly, you know, surgery, you know, my patient coordinators keeping me in the operating room eight hours a day is definitely what, what secures paying the bills. But we haven't downed such since the non-surgical volume is really just in the, in the pure profitability.
Standpoint. But, but both if, if run properly or are very strong profit centers to a practice.
Catherine Maley, MD: You know, I'm very curious though, how do you handle the consultations because you're very streamlined and process oriented. You always were. And it still takes you to do these consults somehow, unless you don't have to do them. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Is somebody else doing them for you? Are you doing virtual? Are you just doing them quickly? Consults and surgery? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, having, having stars that are patient coordinators both in, in both of our practices. So, our, our system is really time tested. A patient contacts our office for information and it's our patient coordinators that give them the initial information.
They, they bring the patient in first to meet with them. So, that we can find out definitively what a patient's goals are if they are a non-surgical candidate versus a surgical candidate. We do the computer imaging for them. They get educated not only in what they're seeking. My coordinators highlight my accolades, and then if we have if we know that a patient, because there's a lot of tire kick.
Pardon the expression also that come in thinking that surgery might be neat, but they think a facelift should be $500. So, I, I, I don't need to, to spend my time with those patients. But if a patient is pre-qualified, no different these days than if you're. Buying a house many times, you can't even go and see a home unless you are pre-qualified.
Mm-hmm. So, if you know that a patient is, is, is pre-qualified financially, emotionally, then they, then they meet me. So, I, I meet most patients now after they already have their deposit in for surgery. Patients who want to meet me before that we're fine with that. I think Covid was an excellent eyeopener to show us that many patients are happy doing, doing Zoom consultations.
Mm-hmm. It saves them time as well, and in their process of deciding whom they want to take care of them. So, we really have the streamline now such that I meet our patients once, once we know they're, if not already on the schedule, if they're ready to commit.
Catherine Maley, MD: I will add a caveat though. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
The reason you're able to do that is because you've got such a well-rounded and balanced website, you have positioned yourself as the expert. And I tell doctors this all the time. When you're at the meetings, make sure your person's there taking photos of you at the podium, in the hallway meeting. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Really well-known surgeons, you know that's pr, whatever you want to call it, pr, marketing, whatever. It, when I was on your website, all I could think of was he bothered to take the time to show how greedy is, but you're bragging in such a sophisticated, professional way, and that's how you do it. That's why I can, I'm sold on you before I've met you, and I can live off of a Zoom 15-minute console call. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
To, to just put icing on the cake. That's how you do it. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: You know, our best, our best source of referral is always another happy patient. Mm-hmm. And so, we, mm-hmm. We enlist happy patients to talk to perspective patients. That vote of confidence goes a long way. And really, you know, when I. When you and I first started at this, many of the things that we do now, we wouldn't have dreamt that we would've had to do.
I employ a, a full-time social media graduate and you know, I, I employ the full-time photographers, full-time web people whose, whose jobs are, are, are never ending given the, the changes in Google formulas and whatnot. So, times are always changing and if you're not willing to change with them and spend the money to do that, then, then you'll get you'll get.
Catherine Maley, MD: So, going back and forth between Indianapolis and Santa Rosa. Not an easy feat because Santa Rosa is a lovely town, but it's outside of SFO. I mean, I, I, it's probably about an hour. Are you flying private by any chance? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: No, I'd I'm just I'm just a few hundred million short of affording 40. No, we've, we've stayed, we've stayed commercial.
Okay. But it's all, it's all in the planning. I'm, I'm also blessed, you know, I think another key. To success. My, my wife Jill was with Roche for 15 years before we got married, but she really oversees the running of both practices. She, she is responsible for my schedule. All of our, you know, our, our schedule is mapped out during the, the end of the third quarter for the following year.
Our flights. We're all booked. So, we typically fly into, I used to keep a car there, but it's actually cheaper now just to rent a car for the week. It's nice you get to drive vehicles. You might be interested in buying at later date. So, it's really, and we, and we know the timing as, as you and I know, if you if, if we land at non traffic times at SFO. I'm to my front door with, you know, within an hour.
If you land at bad times, it's three hours. So, we, so, we know when to fly, when not to fly, and that's just, that's just, I've done it for 30 years. It's just part of life now and my, my way of preserving my health as well as I promised myself, I don't do any work on the plane. That's my time to read enjoyable or watch a movie.
And that's some downtime where, where people can't get ahold.
Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, that's so funny. The plane for me is my quiet time and that's where I do my best riding. Yes, exactly. Because I'm sitting still with nobody bugging me. Exactly. On that. Yeah. So, because you've been around a long time, just give me one big mistake that you really learned a lot from that others could avoid making. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: Not having a, and that, that's an easy, you know, fine, because you can break your practice down into it. It's a given, it's a given that we're here to take good care of patients, but we're also a business. Yeah. And, and if you don't run your practice as a, as a business, then you can, you can waste a lot of money and lose a lot of money.
And so, my, my biggest mistake as, as I alluded to at the start, was thinking that I knew everything that I needed to know about the business of running a practice. And now, and now I, I have a business advisory board, if you will, comprised of, of CPAs, accountants, business people. And I have to write a pledge that I will listen to them.
And many of the things that they advise me to do aren't what I want to do, but I, I listen to them and it turns out to be right. So, so, younger docs starting out really need to first define for themselves who are they? What do they want to practice? Do they want to be in an academic setting? Do they want to be in private practice?
Do they want to be a solo practitioner? Do they want to be in. In a group do they want to stay exposed to research? Do they want to be just surgical or have a, a non-surgical limb, which then also involves expenditure in buying, you know, most of the machines that you look at buying or, or are all upwards about, you know, they're all like buying a nice car.
They're all upwards of a hundred thousand dollars to. And you would, you have to also look at your return on, on, on investment with, with those. So, that was probably the biggest mistakes that I made in my first decade because when we finished, so, I was, you know, between fellowships and whatnot, I was, I was upwards of 300,000 in debt with student loans.
And because there's such a delayed gratification, you, you really come out gung-ho thinking, I have to do everything. I have to do everything tomorrow. The first thing you need to do for tomorrow is start saving. Mm-hmm. And so, a, a, a proper business plan that keeps your, your expenditures as low as you can, while you can still you know, operate your practice how you want to, is really important.
But, taking the time and, and, and young docs should do that through their residency as, as you become exposed to more. Things. And I think it's really important to go to all of the different academy meetings, that there's a, as you know, our, sadly our, our meeting industries in such dire need of consolidation.
La last year I did a hundred hours of C M E talks. And, and, but there's, so, that means for, for people looking, there's, there's such tremendous information that's being offered at these meetings, both in the scientific limbs and the business limbs. So, that those things, companies like yours that, that are, that are so, valuable in, in guiding the way you've, you've watched so, many people do well, but you've watched so, many people not do.
And so, you, you're a, you're really a, an encyclopedia of knowledge for someone who's looking to become successful as they start. So, but, but starting with a plan, starting with a budget and, and adhering to those I think are, are very important. Plans change as times change, but, but the essence of who of who, who a person is also shines through in their practice as.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, you have such a good vast perspective on this industry because you've been a surgeon in solo practice. Then you've had two locations, then you had, I think you even had a third location. Then you work with the vendors, you work with the medical societies. You're very involved in the industry. What would you say to surgeons who maybe are just stuck, like stuck in a rut or they're so, confused that they're like ready to give up, or that it is just not fun anymore? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Like any suggestions for how do you, how do you gain footing in this industry being the uber competitiveness and just all the advances in technology and so, How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: As, as you alluded to, the you know, all of the things I, I I'm humbled by, by what I've been able to accomplish in 30 years. But there are days that I say that even though that I still after 30 years love what I do, I realize that all I do is what I do.
So, it's, it's an enormous time investment to be in solo practice, to also be involved in, in research. But if some, if someone's stuck you know, there, there are many docs. Just like me, who are always willing to talk to people you know, I, I was blessed and, and always being trained by people who, who believed in sharing their knowledge both medical and non-medical.
So, anyone is always welcome to, to reach out to me with specific problems and, and we're always happy to help. People, and I think that's, talk to people who've been at it for a while. And be open. Be honest. Hang, hang your ego on the door, and be willing to, to admit what your shortcomings are and really go with what your strengths are.
Most docs haven't reached the point of, of finishing a residency start. Go into, you know, looking into how they want to practice. If, if they haven't been in the higher percentages of, of IQs and, and, and willingness to work hard. But towards the end of education, I think that's when a lot of people hit a wall and they get very discouraged because they do have, they do have choices you know about which, which road.
And you may choose a road to go down and I that, I did that a few times too. You may choose a road to go down and, and realize that that's not. Right avenue for you. It's okay to change t and to change course midstream. I think some of the most miserable pe people that I've met in my life are people that are doing things every day that they don't like to do.
Sure. Life's too short to live that way. If, if, if you realize that you're not doing something that you have a passion for, that you, because patients will pick up on that as well. It's still my, my nicest compliment every day is when patients say, gosh, by talking to you, we can tell that you still really love what you do.
Mm-hmm. And I, I think that makes the consultation very genuine as well.
Catherine Maley, MD: Would you have any advice for somebody who's like, let's say they, they like research in academia, but now they're ready to make some money, so, now they want to go out into the regular world. Do they go solo? Do they try to buy in with, you know, with somebody else's practice? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Or, you know, that new trend now is all this private equity going on? Do any thoughts on any thoughts on where we're heading here as a solo surgeon? Where are you going to go with this? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: Yeah. Th those are all, all excellent questions. And I think you know, most, most physician multi-doctor practices that have been successful are usually doctors that started together.
I think most, I think most doctors, if they're not in an academic setting, most doctors would like to be out on their own. Mm-hmm. And so, if a person has the inkling that they want to be out on their own, then they should do what I did. And that's Go to a bank, take out a loan. Mm-hmm. And start, you know, and, and start on your own.
And, you know, there are, there are always you know, older guys like me who are looking for new associates. Mm-hmm. I think the, the formulas, the formulas have changed for doctors looking for associates. I think most, most docs who bring on an associate now would require a young doc to take out a loan, do a buy-in right away, away, because we've, there's been many stories of, of young docs coming into practices only to, to abscond with patient lists and.
You know, and, and open up, down, down the block. I think that's one thing that's, that's a across the country, non-competition clauses are weakening. In, in many states, you'll see more, more doctors protecting their established practices by having younger docs buy into them and then, and then earn, you know, earn their, their buy-ins.
Al also then over, over time.
Catherine Maley, MD: But then should there be a honeymoon period before you have a buy-in to make sure you have shared values and vision? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think a lot of that is built, a lot of that is built into, you know, the, the, the early, the early contracts. I think, I think younger docs need to also appreciate, though it's, it's not easy to start your own practice.
Patients these days with the internet, they have many choices about where they, about where they can, they can go. So, there's benefits. To younger docs in joining established practices. I think they, they can be mentored into excellence that, that way there's benefit also, and by, by older docs bringing in younger docs to carry, to pick up the baton.
The, the, there's a lot of private equity firms. I think, you know, this really started in the dermatology professional. Where dermatology practice started getting bought up. The doctor was offered a certain percentage in cash, but then the ability of putting some, keeping some equity in the company and for the larger equity company to buy up again, so, to see some profit off of that.
As well. So, those, there's a lot of those formulas around, but I mean, those, those equity companies are looking for more established practices that would, you know, it, it wouldn't be, you know, looking for a, for a, a multiple of, of, of, of earnings. So, you have to have a track record before a private equity company would, would really consider you in that regard.
And as part of that, you have to have clean. You can't have, you can't be running your practice as your own private bank account. As well. You have to show profitability for equity companies to be interested. But I think young and that, that's, that's also a, a positive for young people coming out of training is that they have many options that they can know, that they can look at.
Think you also have to if you're going to. Be in the field of aesthetics. Look at what your primary specialty is, and you have to decide, am I going to be an aesthetic doctor, non-insurance base, or am I going to keep a certain, you know, a, a certain percentage of my practice in the insurance area? Which, which, which can always act as a, a backup if, if times, if, if the economy worsens.
Although I think this is interesting. You know, before Covid I would've been booked on average, you know, eight weeks in advance. I'm, I'm booked here. We, here we are in coming up in April and I'm booked through September, October for many things. So, I think with, even when times get bad, people will always spend money on themselves, and that's what we're seeing with Covid.
Maybe people aren't traveling as much, so, they're spending more on themselves or their house.
Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, I think, I think cosmetic rejuvenation has become a way of life now. The stigma is almost gone. Social media helped that a lot. Social media also hurts it, like everything. There's a 50 50 to it, but I just think no problem with the demand here. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
My problem with insurance is it's hard to dabble in it when everybody else. Eating, sleeping and drinking cosmetic, and then you're doing some insurance. And the, and the cosmetic is kind of a hobby. It can't be in today's world, it's just too competitive. And I think you need pretty extreme focus on something. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
But I want to talk about that because, Normally in today's world, I say, you know what? Get really good at a few things. Don't try to be everything to everybody but somebody like you who's so, into research and you love the new technologies you offer. Talk about an umbrella, like you talk about a one-stop shop. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Like you offer everything and all the lasers and the injectables. And you're from Canada and you have all the latest like, you know, everything that's happening, like coming up with fillers and non-surgical. How do. Do you think it's a good strategy to provide everything for everyone, or is that difficult to manage? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
What's your feeling on that? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: If you're, that's an excellent question. If you, if you have the desire to, and you can break down surgically and non-surgically, if you have the desire to be head to toe surgically, you have to have the appropriate training. Certainly. And you have to, I think most surgeons know what they do best.
Mm-hmm. And I that, that's a better you know, Operate and do the operations that you know you're good at because it only takes, it only takes one unhappy patient. Mm-hmm. I always, I always tease young docs and, and tell them, since most people still don't want folks to know that they've had anything done.
Right. If you make one person happy, they may tell two or three of their friends, but if you make one person unhappy, they have the potential with one bad review of telling millions of. So, you really, you know, stick to, stick to surgically what you do best. Stick to, you know, offer non-surgically, you know what because you can go to all the, the academy and, and, and, and you have lists as well of what you know are the most popular nonsurgical therapies that are people are looking for.
I think first and foremost, and this was advice that was given to me as well in starting, is first pick where you want to live. Mm-hmm. Cause if you go, if you go someplace that you know you want to live, that you're happy living, number one. And then number two, if you do good work and you're nice to people, you'll be busy no matter where you go.
And you'll be happy because you're living where you want to live, you're doing what you enjoy doing. And, and still to this day, the most gratifying part for me every day is watching how the smallest changes for a patient have such a dramatic effect on self-esteem. Mm-hmm. That's really the, the, the gratitude that our patients display to us every day by just the, the smallest of changes that is so, so, gratifying.
You know, once you can make a list for yourself of what you want to offer. You can really map that out in a way that can also become profitable.
Catherine Maley, MD: You mentioned patients and what's your take on how, how different is the patient demand now than it used to be? And how have you molded your consultations to that? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think we, we as aesthetic providers have to really show a tremendous amount of tolerance these days because the internet has become such a double-edged sword. Every day I meet patients who've read an article and they know more than I do after 30 years now. And so, it's always, you always have to listen.
The other, the other thing that that more docs need to practice at getting better at is listen. And not talking it it's still our job to listen to a patient as it relates to what has brought them through your door. Then it's our job to give them information relating to what it is that brought them through the door in a manner such that they don't think that you're trying to sell them right.
Any, sell them anything. And, and that that's the, the artistry that's involved in, in the consultation process as well is if, if a patient really senses that you're engaged with them. Once you walk in that room or if you're on the zoom that, that they have your, your, your total attention and that you're really engaged in, in the problem for which they're seeking your, your help.
They'll get the sense that you really want to help them and not just do things to them, but it is very, you know, I walked into one of, one of my consults to a, a 60'ish year young lady, and she was holding two papers and, and she said to me, just like this, I want to make sure that you're going to do my facelift just like this.
Great. And so, it would've been, it would've been easy for me to, to tell her what I was really thinking. Yeah. But again, I, I, I helped her see how that, that really probably wasn't the best tack for her to, to take upon first meeting her surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MD: They have gotten very demanding. They're very educated, they're very demanding. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
And you know what I've learned as a, as a consultant, I say to the doctor, you've got to decide who you are and get grounded in your values and your own vision. Because when the public's coming at you from every which way you can try to acquiesce to that or you can say, no, no, no. Here's how we do it. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Here, here, here's what I'm comfortable with. And then let the rest go. Because dealing with the public is exhausting, isn't it? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: So, to that lady, I took my current textbook on facelifts is four is four three that you wrote the book on page volumes. And I, I said, wait, right here, I'll be right back.
So, I went and I got the textbook and I brought it in and I put it on her lap and I said, we're going to do this differently now. We're going to do your facelift with you awake. I'm going to talk you through it and you're going to do your own surgery. And so, her mouth o opened and he thought about it and she said, βI get your pointβ.
Right people. It's so, I, I, I think if you, you know, pa patients have to know that they're coming to see you because you, you are the expert. You are the person who will take good care of them. You'll listen to them. But there comes a point where you, where you have to draw the line in the center. You wouldn't say to your cardiac surgeon who's just said you needed quadruple bypass, just do three minor arteries or two minorities and I'll be fine.
Catherine Maley, MD: So, how are you in today's world with marketing? Like you were always a really good marketer before, but you did it usually through patient education then I really, I mean, this was many decades. You were doing the patient education events before everyone else was, and I thought that's how to do it. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Like you don't have to sell anything to anybody. People want to look good, help them understand what it takes for them to look their best. It's, it's a no-brainer, but how much of your practice nowadays is marketing versus just good old patients coming back for more and referring their friends? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think both, both are, both are still equally important, you know?
Mm-hmm. You, you and I could sit down and, and, and show a beautiful equation on the value of one happy patient. Mm-hmm. Cause one happy patient. One patient may start coming in, doing fillers, doing Botox. That will transcend then to maybe some laser work for pigment fine lines. Then as time goes on, they, they see that the gravitational diss.
That they are, that they are now seeing, as well as their volume loss, their loss of elasticity is, is now warranting surgery. So, they may start with doing their eyes, their brows, their liposuction, whatever, they're happy, then they tell a friend or two, then they're ready for something else. So, so, one happy patient when you meet them is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in, in in the end.
So, protecting that. Is, is very important. So, there's that aspect of, of marketing through meticulous results. Mm-hmm. And then there's, then there's the dollars that you never like spending. We still do public. I think public seminars have been very, Valuable over the years because you can, you can extend information in a, in a very non-intrusive, non-threatening way to, to people.
And, and you can waste a lot of money on, on ads you know, on print ads. The internet is still a very valuable resource that if you, if you know how to play the, you know, the different equation game It all adds up, but, but you really, I think to be successful, you really have to do it all.
You, you can't just, you can't just focus on, on one avenue of, of, of marketing. And, but, but again, my, my greatest recommendation to anyone is to hire someone like you because that's what you, you know, that's what you are there for is to, is to educate and, and to help people be a.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, and not to waste so, much money. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Yeah, I, it's shocking that they won't pay for my services yet. They'll give it to some PR company that works, what, five grand a month for eight months and you got what from it? You got something in Toledo, Ohio, like some kind of like that, a magazine nobody reads. And I think, what the heck? You know, that's. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
I just, I'm on, I'm into marketing in today's world. Smart marketing, you know? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: Okay. Because I've, I've wasted a lot of money on companies that grossly overpromised and even worse, under delivered. And so, you, you, you really have to, there's so, many, as, you know, shysters out there who. You know who, who talk, talk a good story, but, but you know, provide very little inner turn.
Catherine Maley, MD: Yeah. Well, you're really up on the technology because you're on all those advisory boards and you're out there in the world like what's happening. Because half of us, remember when I, when we first started, you surgeons wouldn't even dream of injecting Botox. Like you were like, are you kidding me? I am a surgeon. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
And then you really came around full circle and said, no, no, I need to grab that patient. You know, so, now I do injectables as well as surgery, but like I know you're very involved in regenerative medicine. Yes. So, what's coming down the pike? Like, what else do we need to look good and feel great? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: I think we're seeing more; you know, we're seeing more people.
I'm really seeing two, two distinct new peaks. In, in my practice. We're seeing younger people. A lot of the, you know, the, the generation Z patients, the generation X patients coming in c as well. With healthcare being what it is, I'm seeing many more 70, 80, 90-year-old patients coming in. With sometimes letters from their family doctor saying, don't discriminate against this patient because of their chronological age.
They're the biological age of someone much younger. And these elderly folks come in saying, you know, I don't feel my chronological age, but yet the person that I've seen in the mirror doesn't match how good I feel in my heart. So, if you have a safe way of helping me, I'm really interested. So, both of these subsets come.
Seeking what I refer to as preventative aesthetics. Mm-hmm. As compared to corrective aesthetics. Remember the, the three signs of aging. The only reason that anyone comes to someone like me is, is three reasons. Number one is the gravitational dissent of their muscles, both above the. Above the shoulders and below the shoulders.
And for gravitational dissent, there're really no surgical options at a point for which the patient, you'll do the things for them and they'll go, wow. The second reason they come to us, it's all these non-surgical reasons, volume loss. So, all of us lose fat in our faces in the mid-face. Lower, lower third, and this is where the injectable fillers are.
Fat transfer. There's, there's nothing. And then the third sign of aging is the loss of tone, quality, clarity of skin. And this too is where, where many of the non-surgical treatments, the fractionated CO2 systems, the needle rf treatments that they've never been better, but the whole field for, for 30 years, we've been involved in, in the fields of cellular medicine, regenerative and stem cell therapies, medicines is going to change so, much in the next decade.
The whole field we, we've been involved very highly in, in the field. Called exosomes. Exosomes are the tiny little articles that all of our cells communicate with. And they're packed with growth factors just as your own p r P is, but your own p r p is your age, whereas a memal stem cell exosome is, is very robust with growth factors.
And so, there's the therapeutic side of exosomes. They can improve the tone, quality, clarity of skin. They have such a tremendous, because they're loaded with, with regenerative and healing factors. They can help us in wound care and scar therapy. But the whole field of biogenetics and epigenetics we, we know what genes now are responsible for what features in in the body.
Exosome Diagnostics. There'll come a day where you and I can spit in a cup or pee a cup, and based upon the exosomes that our own body is secreting, we'll be able to detect disease states before the first cells even hit an organ. And then exosome therapeutics will be able to load at your own exosomes with disease fighting, fighting drugs will, you know, disease states like melasma like hypopigmented disorders will have very specific treatments coming up from these that are personalized based upon your own.
Your own gene. So, the whole field of gene therapy isn't that far away. There're some great companies we work a lot with some companies at Purdue at Stanford, that, that are involved in, in innovative genetic therapy so, that the field is so, exciting and I really envy people that will be around for.
20 to 50 more years because they'll be doing very different things. Not even today. I, I do very little how I did things 30 years ago, right? And, and, and very little of what I did even 15 years ago, both surgically and non-surgically. Mm-hmm. All geared to give better results, to have healing times. Quicker for patients as well.
So, the technological advancements that we've seen since I started, and it'll continue to see will really be jaw dropping for, for providers and for patients alike.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, I've been using every technology that they had introduced because I'm going to say, I'm going to fight this aging process forever for as long as I live. How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
It's why I'm in this industry, although I should probably be more, more interested in the genetic stuff, you know, because I, I don't think, I don't know if I have great genes, but it'd be nice to, you know, I. I already feel really good like everyone else; I feel great. I can't believe I'm the age I am and I don't want to, How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: You and I are both 90 and look how good people.
Catherine Maley, MD: That's right. And so, if you could hurry up and research a little faster, we can get to one 20 looking good. So, what is driving you, where do you get this motivation? Because I'm pretty sure you're not sleeping a lot. When you're doing 700 sur, like a thousand surgeries a year, what the heck? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: What, what's, and I, I really say this from the bottom of my heart. A any my mother was a high school teacher who, who really believed her, her favorite saying to my brother and I was, don't, don't, don't settle for mediocre because there's, there's mediocre all around us. And so, I've always, I've always been driven to, to be my best.
And that that really hasn't changed. And it really, but like I said, I, to this day, I genuinely, without hesitation or reservation love what I do every day.
Catherine Maley, MD: Ah, that's so, nice. Now tell us something we don't know about you? How does this relate to you performing 700 β 1000 surgeries per year?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: Cooking is still my hobby. And so, that's the, what's your specialty? You know, I, with our, with our foundation for survivors of violence, my wife and I put on two charity barbecues.
Last year we cooked for 250 people in our backyard. So, that's still, holy cow. Still, still a hobby. I still play. I used to play hockey. My arthritis doesn't let me. I still love golfing and, and other sports as well. So, there, there's, there's no end to doing things like that in spare.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, you're probably still cleaning up after that barbecue. Dear Lord, that's a lot of people in your backyard, so, alright. If some, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, what would be the best way? I know your website is called www.ChernoffCosmeticSurgery.com. Is there any way they can or, or, or just www.DrChernoff.com?
Gregory Chernoff, MD: They can also reach me on my email. Just Greg@DrChernoff.com, Greg@DrChernoff.com. And I'm happy to communicate and share, share anything that I've learned over the years.
Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, thank you so, much Dr. Chernoff. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we could catch up. Hopefully I'll see you at a meeting coming up soon and that'll do it for us today.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to attain 700 β 1000 surgeries per year.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Chernoff, you can reach out to his website at, www.ChernoffCosmeticSurgery.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Chernoff for sharing his wisdom on how he performs 700 β 1000 surgeries per year.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for β700 β 1000 Surgeries Per Year β with Gregory Chernoff, MDβ.
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#drchernoff #1000surgeriesperyear #gregchernoffmd #santarosaplasticsurgeon
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and insights from Grant Stevens, MD.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Insights From Grant Stevens, MD".
Dr. Grant Stevens is the whoβs-who of plastic surgeons and one of the most trusted voices in beauty, and will have lots of insights to share.
Not only is he the past president of The Aesthetic Society, Dr. Grant Stevens also actively speaks, writes, researches, teaches, consults and participates with national and international medical societies, journals, hospitals, universities, industry, pharma, PR outlets and even government.
This weekβs Beauty and Biz Podcast is my interview with Grant Stevens, MD where we talked about:
- Insights on new business models available to those who want to simplify
- Insights on equity deals to invest in to shore up your financial future
- Insights on how to differentiate from everyone else
- Insights on how cosmetic patients have changed
You may need to listen to this Beauty and the Biz episode several times since itβs packed with pearls on how to market, scale and exit a cosmetic practice.
Youβll hear how differently Dr. Grant Stevens thinks about business, marketing and the plastic surgery industry.
Visit Dr. Steven's website
P.S. Please review!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Insights From Grant Stevens, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and insights from Grant Stevens, MD. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
I am absolutely thrilled with this episode because I have Dr. Grant Stevens, who will be sharing his insights. Now, he's a board-certified plastic surgeon, who is the founder and medical director of Marina Plastic Surgery and The Institute, a medical spa in Marina Delray, California. Now, he's also a medical director of Orange Twist Brands, offering multi-location non and minimally invasive aesthetic treatments, as well as chairman of the USC Marina Aesthetic Surgery Fellowship and the director of the USC Division of Aesthetic Surgery.
Now, Dr. Grant Stevens is the "who's who" of plastic surgeons and one of the most trusted voices in beauty and who will be sharing his insights. He has the longest CV I have ever seen because he actively speaks, writes researches, teaches consults, and participates with national and international medical societies, journals, hospitals, universities, industries, pharma, PR outlets, and even government.
Actually, I had Dr. Grant Stevens on my podcast right as the pandemic was... It had kicked in, but now they sent everyone home. So, I was able to catch him for a minute on the podcast and a lot has happened. That was several years ago. So, we're going to hear what's new and his other industry insights.
So, Dr. Grant Stevens, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It, is an absolute pleasure to have you back and to share your insights.
Grant Stevens, MD: Thank you very much, Catherine. I really wish my mother had been here again. Once again listening to that introduction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's very well, I'll say, well, it was really difficult to condense it because you have been around. Wow. Good for you. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful career.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let me ask you this because today I did a lot of research on you and I see a lot of things have changed. So, let's just start with your practice. When I knew you, you had a very, you know, healthy, busy practice and you had quite a few people. So, tell me what is your practice like today and where do you fit into that? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, thank you very much. And hello to everybody. First of all, my practice is in Marina del Ray. It's Marina plastic surgery in the Marina med Spa, and it's been there for about 33 years and we've enjoyed a wonderful time. And we have a fellowship and aesthetic surgery fellowship that's gone on for over 20 years, actually in conjunction with U S C and also Jay Calvert and the Rocks Institute.
So, it's the Marina Rocks USSC Fellowship, which we're right now in the process of changing to the Los Angeles Aesthetic Surgery Fellowship because we're incorporating more of the LA based surgeons. And you asked about what I'm doing and what my role. And some people mistakenly think I've retired. I certainly have not retired.
I'm working as hard or harder than ever, but I actually am not doing surgery. And you mentioned orange twist. We are so there's orange twist is another endeavor, and that's a number of med spas. By the end of this year, we should probably be up to 30. We're looking all around the country, building and acquiring.
And that's all non-surgical medical aesthetics and it's called Orange Twist. However, the most exciting news I can share with you is that a company out of Texas called Lattice Work Capital, which has been around for 25 years, doing various rollups and other consolidations in the medical business, from veterinary to ophthalmology, to dental all sorts of different subspecialties.
They have 25 yearsβ experience. And they came to me and asked me to be on the board. Of their aesthetic rollup. And this is a couple year or a little over a year ago. And with that in mind, I looked at some of the opportunities because I was working very hard with engaged technology and some other things that will come up a little later today.
And I decided that I would go ahead and go and partner with them. And with that in mind they, they called the aesthetic portion of their business. They called it a phoenix, although I think by the time this airs, it will probably be called something else. And it's through lattice where capital and we are acquiring other top flight plastic surgery practices and around the country and only going for the very best and providing a fantastic patient.
An employee experience in the field of aesthetic exposed surgical and non-surgical. And as a board member of that company, and I always kid people, I say I sold my practice to myself because I took back a lot of equity and I really want to build a, the number one national brand in the country of aesthetic plastic surgeons.
So, Marina plastic surgery, alive and well. The senior surgeon there is Dr. Justin Perez. All of the employees are still there. Everything that you remember is still there. And in fact, I'm swinging by there tomorrow. I'm down here right now in Manhattan Beach, and I'll be there at the office tomorrow.
Check on things and see everybody. I'm actually going to get a little dify in my forehead. Wrinkles, you can see I need it. And then I probably have a Cyan laser in a couple days BL and Halo. So, I'm still very much involved and I'm still a consumer of the product.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're still drinking the Kool-Aid.
I knew there was a shift on your website because on your website you very strategically marketed him, Dr. Perez as the medical director and you were after him as the founder. And I thought interesting, because you're transitioning, you're keeping that credibility because he needs your credibility. He can't stand on his own at the moment, I don't think he's much younger.
I mean, is that, is the goal though, for you to walk away and, and have him take it? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah, well, certainly Dr. Perez could do whatever he wants to do. He trained at UT Southwestern. He was my fellow for a whole year in the number one aesthetics fellowship in the country. He then stayed with me and worked alongside of me for a couple years, and now he's the director and running Marina plastic surgery.
And, and I assure you that he could do it on his own. However, we are great friends and colleagues and we share, and obviously I have a little experience. I've walked the path a little longer than he has, and we have a great time. Hey, let me share with you. He is going to do my eyelids this time. Oh my God.
He's going to be my surgeon. Not only is he injecting me and doing my laser this week, but this summer is going to tidy up my eyelid. So, I trust him as my surgeon and I could go to anybody obviously, but he's so, and he's such a great guy. He's running that, that office within the whole Phoenix structure.
But like I said, it may well not be called a Phoenix by the time you air this program.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, lately on the podcast, that's all we've been talking about is private equity and plastic surgery. So, just to be clear, because it sounds to me from what I, the little bit I do know every deal is different. It depends on how much you want to give up, how much the, the business people want to do.
So, for typically you're going for the economies of scale for one thing, right? You're trying to do group discounting or group special pricing. Is that true or is that one of the objectives? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Are you talking about the acquire or the seller?
Catherine Maley, MBA: The business side, the business people who are going to take it, the private equity people, is their goal to roll you up so they have stronger buying power.
So, now you decrease your, like, hard costs. Is that one of the objectives? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, that, yeah, that, that is one of them, but that's not the main objective because what's the main objective? There are plenty of buying groups. It's, it's the efficiencies, first of all, the back-office efficiencies the running of the office, so all the support and of the office, the marketing, the HR, the employee relations and so forth, and their experience.
Like I mentioned, the company I'm with, with Gladys work, they have 25 years of successful rollups. One of my concerns, and this will come out at the Aesthetic Society meeting at Hot Topics, which may have already happened by the time you play this, but. I actually looked at 13 different groups, and I know there's a few more.
And there will not be 13 groups in a couple years, most of them will fail.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And why is that? Because I can see, but just from my, my looking out, you know, outside looking in, there's so many variables involved, so many egos, so many pieces to that thing. And I don't know how you're controlling it when it's in different locations, different people.
Who has the decision making? Who doesn't? That, that was, that's my take. Like why wouldn't they make it? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, first of all, as I mentioned, this is not a new phenomenon. This has been going on for 25 years with other subspecialties. So, if we look back and we study what's happened in previous verticals, in previous specialties, and we study what's happened, Then you ask why do they or why will this fail?
And, and it won't fail entirely. There'll be successes and there'll be cannibalization. Some will be bought by others at different valuations. But there will be some people that pay too much. There'll be some that can't deliver what they say they're going to deliver. There will be early retirements because people will see the money and they'll retire and, and, and the, the revenue stream will evaporate.
There'll be a number of reasons why they don't pan out and deliver what they're promising. I hope they're all successful. I'm not trying to be heavy downer here, but it can't possibly be 13 different rollups. And in fact, I'm told there's a couple more coming down the pipes, which doesn't surprise me because private equity wants to get in this because they've made tons of.
On other verticals. When I say a vertical like dentistry or pediatric dentistry or cardiology and so forth, they're veterinary, as I mentioned, renal dialysis centers and so forth. And I've studied, I went back and studied the previous models and looked at and interviewed people. I interviewed a couple pediatric dentists who did a three-time recapitalization and their final out was a 14 x.
They had a wonderful exit, foreign excess of the cash they had, and that would be one of the best models I saw.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But, but why has nobody ever done plastic surgery until now? My thought, is it insurance versus cosmetic? I haven't heard of this until a couple years ago now. It seems very popular. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Okay, so let me go back.
It's funny you say that. I attempted a roll up in 1998 with 31. With 31 practices and I took it to Wall Street. We went public and it was called the Plastic Surgery Company. It was 1999. Good for you. How, what happened? And we had 31 practices and more than 31 physicians. But I learned the hard way that managing plastic surgeons was much tougher than herding cats.
As Harvey Zim used to say. It was very difficult. And as I said, we could give a key to a burning building with the plastic surgeons in the building and say, that's the door. Here's the key. Let yourself out and save your life. And they would argue with you that it's not the right door, not the right key, and so forth.
But what we didn't have was private equity. Equity, and we didn't have the knowledge, the backend knowledge. And that's exactly what's going to happen to some of these other groups. I learned the hard way. Mm-hmm. We survived and did fine. Dennis Connan and I did it. And you know, Dennis from the industry and we learned a lot.
And I said to Dennis at the time, if I ever come to you and say I want to manage plastic surgeons again and do a roll up, I want you to shoot me. Well, then I call him and I say, you're never going to believe what I'm about to do. But it's totally different. It's totally different now because the physicians are giving up control of their practice, and that's a key thing they didn't with the previous one.
And that's good and bad, but they will follow the directions of the, of the parent company. In some of the programs, they have more control over others. Right. I think they're going to learn very quickly that that's probably not a great idea. PLA surgeons are independent, physicians are independent, plastic surgeons are very independent.
Mm-hmm. And they're tough to manage. Mm-hmm. But again, Catherine, as I mentioned, this has been done many, many times before, successfully in other fields. And I think what we're seeing here is now the interest in non-surgicals, especially captivates a lot of money people and private equity and, and people want to get on board the aesthetic boat if you will, or train because it's growing at an exponential rate.
And I don't blame them. I don't, that's why I'm on board. I mean, that's why I rolled a lot of my value into equity. Mm-hmm. And why I encourage my colleagues to give it a look. We're, we're going to be talking about it at the hot topics section of the Aesthetic Society meeting and comparing in contrasting some of the models.
And there's not one model that fits everybody's right. There can be many models, depending on the age of the doctors, how many doctors there are what their goals are, you know, what their tolerance is for having people manage them or their staff. There's just so many variables, and I hope they're all successful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because one, you, you need commitment though. You, you need them to stay put, right? Like, like for five years at least to make it work. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, so, okay. So, they're men. As I mentioned, every time you ask me a question, there's going to be a variation of the answers. Yeah, for sure. Some of the models are three years.
Some of them go out to five, some go out to seven or infinity actually. Mm-hmm. But if you leave in less than three years in general, you're going to forfeit something in the way of e or more. So, there's not one size of fits all. So, if you, there's as many models as there are companies
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. If you were to talk to a surgeon, like the biggest benefit for a surgeon to roll up with this, with a, with a private equity firm, what is it?
Is it to let go of the admin part of their practice and just do surgery? What's their benefit? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: It entirely depends on the age of the surgeon, what their practice is like now, and what they want out of their practice and their life. It's, there's not one size of fits all. Once again, if you're a young surgeon, it might be effective practice management and professionalism and branding and marketing and taking the headaches of running a business out of their hands, allowing them to do what they're best at, which is surgery.
That's one. If you're a senior surgeon in your final third of your life, it allows you to monetize all the work you've done and actually get a healthy multiple that you're not going to get anywhere else. Mm-hmm. Certainly, have to stay around a while. And the middle, sort of a blend of both. So, it's not one size fits all.
And when people say to you, they have the answer, they know, trust me, they don't. There's many, many scenarios here and there are many ways we can actually adjust it for the needs of the younger. I always talk the first, third, second, third, third, third of their practice. Mm-hmm. And it can be, and they can make more money, both even for practice efficiency on a day-to-day basis, as well as have a program extra strategy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. The one, the two things I was wondering about with these groups who pays for the patient attraction, does it now become the, the business side of that to, to do all the marketing for you? Or a lot of the groups, they still say to the practice, no, you still do what you do. You still build your practice market the way you've always done it.
But now doesn't it have to be co-branded? You know, like how, how do you divvy up this marketing part? Like where are these patients coming from? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Again, Catherine, once again, same answer. It's as different as there are different practice model. Some are centralized entirely and they only do a central brand.
Some allow the practices to exert their influence. Like for instance, marina plastic surgery is still marina plastic surgery. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's how I noticed this. It said marina plastic surgery by a phoenix. Right. An old, interesting. Yeah. So, you are full branded a little. It's little though. It's subtle, right? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: It's co-branding and eventually as we get bigger, we'll probably have a national brand, but we're still allowing people to have their own local brand. Mm-hmm. And to the extent people want to do their own unique marketing, that's fine. But one of the values of this is we share best practices. Mm-hmm. So, if somebody in another locale who's part of it shows us what they're.
And they're involved in, say, patient financing with patient Fi or subscription services with, with dax, I mean, excuse me, with Privy. And they're doing great. They will share that because now you have partners coming together on quarterly meetings and sharing best practices is nobody can have all the answers.
This allows sharing of the best practices and then incorporating that around the country and maximizing the return and having partners and learning from one another, not just surgical technique, but in this case business management, marketing, and all the various other parts that are outside of the OR.
All right now practices or some models. Take all that off the. Some, some just come in and they just run it and then the doctor goes to work and does surgery and so forth. That's not what I'm doing. It's not what we're doing, and that it's not what most are doing. And most plastic surgeons don't want that kind of model.
But there are some that are that way. I can tell you I looked at them. Mm-hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, what would be your advice then? Choose carefully, you know? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Again, it would be, it would depend on the age of the surgeon. Mm-hmm. Well, private equity's not interested in hiring a young surgeon just fresh out, unless they're in an established practice.
I would, I would let, let me talk to the people that understand the second, third, or third-third of their practice. Yeah. Yeah. Look carefully. But in my mind, the biggest mistakes people are making, and we're going to talk about this, is that they're, They're falsely thinking that all the management schemes are equal and that somehow that they all be successful.
Mm-hmm. And I don't understand how they can think that when you study the other subspecialists, the other verticals, if you one studies veterinary stuff, or derm or dentistry as I mentioned these other, and you study what happened 10, 15, 20 years ago. Mm-hmm. You see that a lot of people got burned.
However, some did not. And the ones that did not have the best management ches, they have the best, the, the best business people and they partner with the physicians, be they veterinarians or dentists or whatever they are. And learning from the past helps the people now and in the future. Right. I mean, why would you repeat something that failed?
And that's what I see. I see a lot of naive plastic surgeons that I feel sorry for. They're just going for either the highest multiple, and they don't understand that that's not really the big strategy here. Because in a year or two, they're going to be out on the street or they're going to, the whole thing will be, well, what will happen, it'll be acquired.
We'll be re-roll up at a much lower multiple. Hmm. I just would be very cautious, be very thoughtful, be very analytical. The other thing is you don't need to be paying these bankers so much. I see these guys hire all these bankers, which I mean, it makes sense to have one, but they're paying way too much for them.
I don't know. The bankers hate me for saying this. And I have the bankers on my program and they're my friends. But some of the plastic surgeons are getting gouged by bankers. Sorry, bank.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For the surgeons, are they looking for predictable revenue streams? What would make the business people want to take over a practice? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
What are they looking for? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: They're looking for that delta. They want to. Pay the surgeon. They want that EBITDA and they want to drop the revenue, drop the expenses, and raise the revenue. And that delta is what they're looking for. They want to run more efficiently. It's, it's an old model. It's not new.
This is not new. This is ancient. They're coming in with economies of scale that you mentioned on acquisition of product, but way more than economy of scale and product. It's running the business like a business. Right. You know, I started that whole thing called the business of plastic surgery years ago.
And you've actually been involved in that also. And I remember when I first gave a talk called Staying ahead of the competition, I was roundly booed and so forth. Because I said, you're all business people. Then they disagreed. I said, yeah, you are. You're just bad business people and profit's not a four-letter word.
And you may remember I gave that talk profit's not a four-letter word. And I pointed out it funds philanthropy. It funds sitting in that chair. It funds your kids' education, it funds your. And so forth. Then without a profit, unless you're a silver Spooner, you're not going to be successful. You're not going to be able to help your family, help the needy and so forth.
Go on mission trips. So, if it is in fact not a four-letter word, then shouldn't we get the most profit? And shouldn't we run our businesses as business people, not as frat rats? I mean, I looked at businesses when I rolled them up in 89 and 90, they were being run and they still are like fraternity houses.
And, and it's unbelievable to me. I'm a businessman and I'm a surgeon and you know; it turns out you can be both. And I know that was really tough for people to swallow. I'm happy that now it seems that people have gone full circle and they understand they are in the business of aesthetic plastic surgery and aesthetic.
And they want efficiencies and they want help in the back office and marketing and sales and all the management issues in HR and everything that every business in America has. So, that's where the rollups are going to help the doctors.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is the point of the roll up to eventually then just sell it to somebody else for even a lot more equity? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
But then who would that somebody be? Is it just some more business? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, you know, some are, some are established just to throw off cash and distribute it back. The shareholders. Mm-hmm. Some, I can think of a couple that come to mind. I'm not going to identify any of them, but, and some are clearly in the business of growing and then recapitalizing and then maybe recapitalizing a couple times and then ultimately then selling out.
But the ones that are getting involved right now who tell me, oh, we're going to do this in sell out in three years. Right. I know they're... No question. That's the biggest path to failure to start a new business and say your goal is to sell in three years. Every business school textbook says that. And, and if you look at startups, the people that make the money are do not startup companies with the idea of selling.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I'm from the Silicon Valley. I live very close to it, and I was down there for a year and I was in the middle of the, I started in 1998 and I left in 2000 to start what I do now, because I thought, you're all crazy. Nobody, you're all just here to start something and, and pull out the money and leave.
And all of us were, you know, millionaires on paper and we, it was over overnight, it was gone. And I was working for a startup that was burning through so much money and nobody had a. Just so it was so interesting to watch that, but you really have to know business and some where you're going with this.
And now I tell the surgeons, you're not only in in the world of business, but you're also in the, in the game of marketing. You've got to market yourself. And they're still fighting that as well. Like, why should I have to market myself? And I think it's just, I think the surgeons are the most sophisticated of all medical societies because you've been kind of forced to be, but even then, you're, you're kind of behind that until you realize this is a business that includes the marketing.
That's why this podcast is business and marketing. That's how you grow this thing, you know? Mm-hmm. So, tell me about Orange Twist. How is that different from Phoenix? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Okay. Very different. So, Orange Twist was started by Clint Can, Carnell and myself were the co-founders, and it's a Dr. Light approach to med spas.
And we started with one and then we went to fi. We then we went to 15 and now we're going to have 30 by the end of the year. And what we provide are the non-surgical and minimally invasive type procedures that do not require a physician on-site. We have medical directors and say I am not the medical director of Orange Twist anymore, but we do have medical directors of the individual sites.
And a general medical director overall. So, we have medical supervision, we have Orange Twist University. We train our staff. We emphasize quality and safety, number one. But a lot of patients don't want to go to a doctor's office. They want to drive in, get out of their car, walk into the Starbucks and go right next door and have their Botox or the Dify or their RHA or whatever filler, Restylane.
I don't want to endorse one over the other. They want to have their aesthetic experience and it might be a laser treatment, it might be hair removal and so forth. There's the whole myriad of things, not surgery. So, the key thing, it's non-surgical there. It's not, it's on the first floor you can park in and walk in.
So, it's the friction. We've taken the friction out of the experience you're easy to do business with and patients come in and, but they're not patients, they're clients and it's. Sort of like going to your hairdresser. Although I always say to the staff, you know, you're not hairdressers, you are practitioners and, and you know, their hair grows back but sometimes doesn't.
So, but the experience for the consumer is very approachable. It's very simple. And patients love it. We also offer subscription services so that patients are on a subscription. They come in, they get their every three months neuromodulator, or in the case of Dify, every six months, neuromodulator, maybe every year or nine months, they're filler.
Maybe they get one to two BBLs a year and so forth. So, now they come in and they have convenient payments that are taken from the credit card every month. It's, it's seamless. It's no different than Netflix or your iPhone payment, or your gym membership, or your car payment. Mm-hmm. And so forth. And patients love it.
They absolutely love it. They send their friends and we're growing by leaps and bounds.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, who owns this thing? Are you taking over med spas that weren't doing well or they just didn't want to run it anymore and they're all on the first floor? Like how do you know they're on the first floor or they're all over the country, right? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: You're talking about the buying, the purchasing one. We build most of them. I mean, he would β
Catherine Maley, MBA: oh, you're starting from scratch. You're just built, because I know another surgeon in Texas that he, he's a facial plastic, but he owns a med spa and then he brought you on board. I'm just trying to figure out like, how, how is that working? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Are you going after the plastic surgeon or the facial plastic surgeon who has a me spa or a med spa that's struggling or a brand-new building like you just said, like how's that business model? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: So, as I mentioned, we build most of them, de Nova. We acquire some that fit our model. You're referring to Steve Camp And he's not a facial plastic surgeon?
He's a plastic surgeon. He's not facial. Oh, okay. He did an aesthetic fellowship with Dan Mills. Yes. He's a very friend. Dan and Sarah are fantastic people and have a great practice. And they came to us and we built that de novo with them. Oh, gotcha. They were our practice; they were our partners and they're running a great business.
And there were a few we acquired here in the LA area, but they had to fit our model. You know, they're, you're not getting in an elevator. You're not hopefully paying for parking. Certainly, you're not, it's not there's not a lot of friction. We want to make it simple. Just like Starbucks. We want to make it, you don't pay for park for parking when you go to Starbucks, and I'm not sure you've ever been in a Starbucks on a second floor unless it's in another business.
My point is, we put them conveniently next to gyms and other areas where people have high traffic beauty salons, Starbucks, I've mentioned that a few times. That's actually one of our areas we look for and other. High traffic areas where people can just go from one experience into another. Mm-hmm. People want to have the beauty experience.
So, no, we're not looking for failed established practices at all. That's not at all the model. Mm-hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's in, so is there, are you the owner, is there a board of directors? Is it also private equity? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: We just had an infusion of 40 million last Monday. Of course, there's a board of directors. There are many investors and owners.
It's a thriving business, Catherine. Yeah. It's, it's a, there we have, it's a thriving multimillion dollar business. Mm-hmm. That has valuation, a high valuation. I mentioned we just had someone put another $40 million into it. So, yeah, it's. They're a number of owners, if you will, because they're all investors.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Okay. You're busy, you've got a Phoenix, you've got Orange Twist now, are you still doing your podcast? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, I am, I'm, I'm not doing much with Orange Twist. I'm certainly supporting them and I'm one of their, I'm helping with some of the medical stuff and I'm, I mean, I was just on the phone with c e o today and the chairman of the board yesterday, so, but I'm not actively working with Orange Tri because I'm so busy with various other things, including my podcast.
But more importantly, I'm the chairman of the board of Engaged Technologies. And today is big news because today we announced we have a press release that Engage Technologies and Apex merged, the official merger was announced today. So, we so you know Terry Ross and Isaac Mosley, they have a P X.
Which is a practice management tool, which includes a, a dashboard and a number of KPIs and a lot of management skills and training on the part of dairy. We merged with engaged Technologies. What did they do? And, and I mentioned I'm not, I'm the chairman of the board. I'm also the chief medical Information Officer and so forth.
So, that's keeping me very busy. The technology of Beauty is the podcast and I'd love to plug it. You can watch a new episode every Tuesday. We have over a hundred episodes. Last week we had Carrie and Jason from Allergan. Tomorrow we are. Today we had Dustin Suits from Revance. We've had pretty much every single c e o and chairman of the aesthetic space.
I mentioned we've had a hundred. I could run through it with you. It's a really fun prod podcast. I get to interview the movers and shakers of the beauty business and learn a lot from every one of them. We film it in a studio we have here in Manhattan Beach. It plays every Tuesday. It's on YouTube and all the other podcast feeds.
It has videos, well as audio. We have three cameras. We have a whole film crew editing editorial staff. And it has been incredibly successful. And what, what audience are you attracting? Well, it's really fascinating you asked that because we have a mixed audience. Because we have so many industry people.
It's fascinating to me what's happened. It's morphed. So, we have a lot of industry viewers. We have clinicians, especially entrepreneurial clinicians for sure. We also have people that are looking for jobs in the beauty business, which I never expected. And some of the companies are using the content to push it to their sales staff as well as to potential applicants.
So, someone was going to interview with Dennis the other day, and this person, Dennis Conan, and this person watched Dennis's show. I didn't even know the person, and they called and thanked me because they had some insight into what he was all about. And that has now happened a number of times. And it was something that Max and I max is my producer and director, and he has influx marketing along with Adam.
And we, when we set out, we weren't exactly sure what our goal was, but I was interviewing Richard Gonzalez, as you know, the, the head of AbbVie. And who that bought Allergan. And I got to the, for, I was fortunate enough to meet him off camera and talk to him when he took over and bought Allergan. And he is the chairman of the board and the CEO, and he runs everything with Abby.
And I said, Hey, can I interview you so you can get to know the people in plastic surgery? And my mantra was already, as you know, the, the, the technology of beauty that's been across my, my wall since 1987. And I own that. It's trademarked. I own the technology of beauty. And so, I named the program the Technology of Beauty and, and Rick Richard Gonzalez was my first guest.
And we had so much fun. I said, Hey, let's do this again. So, lo and behold, we started bringing other people. We got a studio, we got cameramen and sound people and editors, and it's just been so much fun over the last three or four years now. Excuse me. And we've learned a lot. I learned something from every single guest.
Yeah, me too. It's incredible to me. We interviewed Eddie Yune not too long ago. He wrote the Super Consumer and he also wrote The Snow Leopard. And if you haven't read the Super Consumer, it's an amazing book and it relates right to what we're doing in aesthetics. I hardly encourage you to. And Eddie came and he presented some fascinating marketing information.
Like what did you know? That people that make generators, companies that build generators sell a lot right after a natural disaster, you'd expect that an earthquake, a flood. Of course, people run to the local Home Depot or wherever you buy a, a generator. I must confess I have one because I lived in Southern California.
I've been through earthquake, but. Did you know that when there hasn't been a natural disaster that their sales plummet? Not unexpected. Cause they're asking you to, you know, shell out, I don't know, five to 10,000, whatever it is, to buy one of these things and stick it in your garage and hopefully you'll never use it.
Right? Right. Okay. Well, they came to Eddie asking about marketing advice. He's a consultant. So, what he did was very creative. He started looking at what people do that have generators. So, let me ask you something. Do you have extra refrigerator freezers in your garage? Do you, so you don't have a generator.
Do you take an excessive number of. Yes. Okay. So, it turns out people that buy generators, number one, they all have more than one refrigerator freezer. And Tuesday in the garage they have backup freezers or they, they, and they keep frozen food out there. So, that's number one, predictor. Number two, they buy a ton of vitamins.
So, then if you want to target your marketing, instead of geo-targeting like we do, you just for that com, for those companies, they targeted people who purchased these refrigerators, freezer, extra second and third, and then vitamins. And there were other collateral things. And in the book, he lists a ton of them.
And 20% of the people consume 90% of our product. Again, 20% of our patients consume 90% of our product. And if we can identify who those 20% are and market to them, we're way better off. And Eddie was on the show, but we've had bankers, we've had CEOs, we've had some. A few doctors, not many. We've only had a handful of doctors, and they are, again, to be on, you have to be a mover and shaker of the beauty business.
But we've had some docs on and they're big-time aesthetic surgeons and medical people. Mm-hmm. And it's great. I encourage you to check it out. We have a website. We also have Instagram page technology@beauty.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. You mentioned marketing, and I want to go back to that because you have such a well-rounded background in all facets of aesthetic medicine. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
What's working in today's world for at patient attraction? What, what has been working that you know about or you? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: It's so great you asked me that because this weekend I worked on this last weekend I worked on my talk to the residents and fellows coming up. They've asked me to talk about that.
It's going to be a kind of a morphing from staying ahead of the competition talk. Mm-hmm. But you know, Catherine. Too much time is spent talking about just the peer marketing. The number one way to get patients is to be the best surgeon and physician you could possibly be and take the very best care of the patient sitting in your chair right now because that person will tell her sister or her family or her neighbor, and there's nothing better than word of mouth marketing.
We have gotten so distracted by the other digital, which I'll talk on, but we've gotten so distracted that I see a lot of young people just jumping around on TikTok and not thinking about the fact that at the final analysis, if you don't deliver the very best services, the safest and best surgery or non-surgical aesthetic services, I don't care how much marketing you do, you will fail.
It starts with the best surgery and, and medicine and being the best. After that, it's, it's communicating with your patients and then they will communicate with their friends and family and then you expand. And then it's building a website and have me before and after pictures, and then of course social media and we can talk about, you know, in the old days it was Facebook, then Instagram, now TikTok and others, and we can debate it all day long.
We can talk about the target audience. If you're looking for facelifts, it's Facebook perhaps, although now that's moving down. Anything we talk about today be antiquated tomorrow. Right. Except that, except my first premise. Patient care, quality and safety will never be antiquated. And the biggest disservice I see are these people jumping around like a bunch of non-knuckleheads and thinking they're going to track.
A bunch of patients and they will, short term, they will, but long term, if they're not delivering the goods, their history, and I've seen this over and over again. I remember when the internet was new and I performed my first webpage in 1994 and I remember being told by Harvey Zuru, patients will never find a doctor on a computer.
And that's the quote he used. And that's when he heard I had something called a webpage. And my first webpage I built in November, 1994 and it was three pages and I did it myself. And then I went on to build tons more. And then obviously had people helping me such as Ryan Miller and, and Max and Adam and so forth.
And that was the mainstay of it. And I still believe that's the lifeblood because it, that's where you can put the "before and afters" as a library and that's really what people want to see. But of course, that's not the whole answer. You need to have a social media presence. There's no question. And I'm, and I'm suggesting that everyone does that.
And at this point, having someone help you with it is probably essential to tell you the truth. One PR one surgeon can't do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I agree. I think you've got to have that person walking around with the iPad and, and videotaping you the day in the life of a surgeon if they want you involved in that, because you guys are so busy to add this social media to it. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
And some of the surgeons who come on my podcast, they'll spend two to four hours a day on social media, and they're getting a lot from it. But on the other hand, their staff is worn out trying to come deal with all these, they're not leads their inquiries, you know, or whatever you want to call them. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Yeah. In today's world, I think you've got to triage what's coming at you. You know, because when the public's coming at you, wow, your staff's going to get burned out from the all the crazy, you know? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Handle that. And it's a moving target, and it will continue to accelerate. The movements will not stop.
And we can't even imagine what's going to be out there next with AI and all kinds of things we're going to be seeing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. AI's really interesting. I tried it myself and it wrote some pretty darn good blog posts. I was really surprised. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Isn't that incredible? I had it do, I had one of them doing one of my slide decks just to see how close it was.
The one I built. Yeah. And you know what, I got some great ideas from it. Mm-hmm. And I put it in my slide deck.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I was, and then I think now Google's not going to appreciate my writing anymore because I live off of content. You know, I write a content a lot and now they're going to, they're not going to value it like they used to because they're going to think everyone did the ai and I think, where are we going with all of this? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
This is crazy, but interesting.
Grant Stevens, MD: R2-D2 is going to be writing all of our content. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So, I wanted to talk about competing because you are so good at differentiating and that's how you compete. You just differentiate yourself from everybody else. Would you please explain the βMarina Man Landβ. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Oh, βMarina Man Land β Where a man can feel good about looking great!β
So, you know, historically men have occupied, occupied about 10 to 15% plastic surgeons of busy plastic surgeons practice for an aesthetics. And it varies. I know it can be less than 10, I know it can be over 15, but that's sort of the sweet spot. You can look at what the Aesthetic society might say, and I'm not sure the exact number they'll give you year to year, but that's kind of the range.
But I was convinced that that number could expand. But it was going to take a new way of thinking. About aesthetics and the male and the male's, a unique creature. And when I started with Cool Sculpting in 2009, if you could believe that I brought it into the Med Spa. And then I looked at my experience in 12.
I looked at the experience of 10, 11 and 12, 2000 10, 11, 12, and I learned a number of things and I wrote it up. It was published in August of 2013, the Aesthetic Surgery Journal. And what I found was that 74% of the people that came in my office in the first three years to for Cool Sculpting, had never been to Marina Plastic Surgery.
They had never heard of me. They'd never been there. I thought, well, that's kind of interesting. It's kind of a magnet. And they all wanted to lose a little fat. And then we drilled down lower further, and we looked at those people and we said, have you ever had anything aesthetic at all, including a medical grade facial?
And 84% had never had any aesthetic procedure. So, not only were they new to my practice, they were new to what I do for a living. And then I drilled down even further. And guess what? 41% of them were men. Huh? So, then I interviewed on Paper, 200 plus Men. I had over 200 responses, and I asked them what they liked and what they didn't like about being in my office.
This is before Man Land. I asked them, you know, what would stop them from coming? What would encourage them from coming in? Of course, we got the smart asses that, you know, would talk about, you know, beer, tap beer, and you know, topless women or whatever. We got all the crazy answers. But when I drilled through it, There were some absolute trends and consistencies guys hate sitting on couches.
Oh, amazing. This is almost like Eddie Yoon stuff. They love chairs. Yeah, they love leather, they love the smell of leather. They hate the smell of this fufu stuff That was pump pumping into my established reception area with all these women. Because I had been very successful with my model and I wasn't targeting men, but the men came in for CoolSculpting because I was running it on ESPN.
And the ESPN guys Mason and Ireland were talking about themselves getting it. So, I got a bunch of guys in the Lakers show and so forth, and that's what grew my men. But then I got a chance to find out what they wanted. They wanted a combination between a sports bar and a, a cigar lounge. They wanted flat screen TVs in every room.
They wanted to smell leather. They wanted to sit in chairs, not couches, and on and on and on. So, I decided, guess what? I'm going to build Marina man land like Disneyland. And it's the same fun where a man can feel good about looking great. And so, with that in mind, I put a flat screen on every single wall of every single structure of every single room, including the restroom.
I also put a standup urinal in the restroom, and I ran the Sports Illustrate bathing suit edition on the restroom television over the urinal, 24 hours a day it never turned off. Scantily clad bathing suit, bikini women from. Sports Illustrated? No. Topless, no. Cause it was all approved by Sports Illustrated.
And there's a little side story to that. We did it in darker colors, we did it in wood, we did a lot of leather. And I actually put together a proprietary smell that I pumped into the space because one of my thesises actually, when I, I was an experimental psychologist actually, and I studied olfactory stimulation as one of my oh my, one of my papers, actually, one of my research areas was the, the effect of olfactory stimulation.
So, I put together the smell of leather and cigars and one other proprietary smell that I never revealed, and I still haven't. I got a company to put it together and we pumped it in every single room except the bathroom. Mm-hmm. And., I remember I put pictures up in all the rooms with, with women and, and guys doing all kinds of fun stuff.
A lot of motorcycles and sports and horses and guns and all kinds of male stuff. Mm-hmm. And I brought my mom in before I opened the door. I didn't let a single woman in before I opened the door. I built this and no females were in it. I brought my mom in; she made me take down two of the pictures.
Okay. And that was fine. Okay. And we're good to go. And then we opened the doors. Now the amazing thing, not even men love it. And we had, you know, it was amazing. God rest us soul Larry King came all kinds of people. I just thought someone, I, I think it was on says Charlie came, you can fill in the blanks.
I had many of my friends and neighbors. Who came in and checked it out and loved it and loved it. How much free PR did you get from them and they, how much, what, how much free PR did you get from Oh my God, they did a thing on the, on the morning news show where what's her name? Harvey channel nine.
She was there the whole morning. They starred the news show in the morning and they kept cutting away for two or three hours. They cut away back to Marina Man land where a man can feel good about looking great. I had a rule, no one could say the name of MML without saying the tagline that I invented.
So, that's why I say it because I, my staff will go crazy if I don't say that when I say the name of M n l to. But we had so much media coverage actually when Larry came, Larry King came in one morning about nine in the morning to the regular office and said, Hey I understand you've got a s special place for men.
Can I see it? I said, boy, I'd love to take you, but I'm kind of tied up. Let me take you briefly and then my staff will take you around. I got a full office of patience. I took him back there. He would not stop talking about it. He couldn't believe I had a ural. He couldn't believe I had the sports illustrator thing.
I had so much fun with people just wanting to come in. And then lo and behold, they wanted Saturday hours. Then they wanted beer, then they wanted to smoke cigars. And of course, we can't do that. And I couldn't serve beer. But guys smuggled it in to have cool sculpting. And when I found it, of course I disposed of it.
But my staff would say, the guy back in such and such room, he's drinking beer out of a whatever. And I'd say, dude, you can't do that, man. But it was so cool. And guys would sit around in their leather chairs and the number one question was, Hey dude, what are you in for? It was like, it was like a prison, but it was what you in for.
And I also played a lot of pre and post-op stuff because the wives sent them enzyme sometimes and the guys would watch stuff that they didn't know could happen. A lot of guys are not as well versed as women and they would say, Hey Doc, what happened on that patient? Back in on, I we had photo books there.
It was absolutely incredible to me the naivety of so many men. They might be there to lose a couple inches with cool sculpting, but boy, they morphed into surgery like you wouldn't believe. One quarter in 2015, 51% of our patients were men of, of the coast company. It was unheard. The baseline was 10 to 15%.
As I told you, it was 41% in our first three years and one quarter we eclipsed 50%. We went to 51. We didn't do it after that. But that was the one quarter yeah, marina Man land. It was a ton of fun building. We kept morphing it. It's a ton of fun now. We got tons of media coverage. Yeah. And I'd love to talk to anybody who has questions about it.
It's, it's a big deal.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. It was really cool. What do you think about the patients today? How much have they changed from, let's say pre-social media? Have they changed much? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Oh, yeah, they changed a ton. So, so how, A couple ways. So, as you know, the average age is going down mm-hmm. In general, and we have released some statistics on that last week.
So, the average age of a consumer getting a non-surgical has dropped 10 years in like two. That's one big difference. If you look at a picture of a person from 10, 15, no, 20 years ago, a 50-year-old person compared to now, or even better yet, a 70-year-old person today versus a 70-year-old person 30 years ago.
Mm-hmm. It's remarkable how different they look. Mm-hmm. And a lot of that is aesthetics, but not, not all. I mean, skincare, it's health, overall health and wellness. So, we have people come in saying in the, well, I did years ago, say, well, I'm 65, this is my la I'm going to have a face that, but I'll never be here again.
I remember hearing it over and over. I saw an 83-year-old woman on March 22nd, 2020, no, 20 March 21st, 2022. And I know that because I walked in and I announced I had just done my last surgery. Yeah. And she turned to me and she said, no, that's not true. You're going to do my surgery tomorrow. I said, no, I'm done.
I just did. My friend's daughter, you'll have to talk to Justin Perez about it. She said, Nope, you're going to do my surgery tomorrow. I said, ma'am, I'm sorry. Sorry kids. I said to Maria, what, who exactly is this? So, she said, you know, you don't remember, but over 20 years ago you did my first surgery. It was my breast augmentation.
And then about 10 years later, when I was 70, I told you, this is my last time. And I, you did my tummy tuck and you didn't touch my bra. Oh. And my facelift, you did my tummy tuck and facelift. And I told you with certainty that I would never be here again. And now I'm 83 and I'm here. And I, my face looks great.
My tummy's still flat. And she picked up her blouse, she pulled up her bra and her breast fell down and she said, these puppies, this is her. These puppies need to be lifted and smaller. 83. She then turns to me and says, I'm sexually active. My husband and I want you to do this, and I care about how I look.
And you were her and you were right. You told me. I would always care because if I cared at 60, I'd car at 70. If I cared at 70, I cared 80. And that's the difference in the consumer. They're the super consumers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And I can assure I'm in that group. My vanity knows no bounds. Every time I say I'm not going to do something, I hit that age and I completely change my mind and say, no, no.
I'm, I need another five years getting used to this βGetting olderβ.
Grant Stevens, MD: Absolutely. I'm doing my eyelids this year and I'm turning 70 this year. So, there you go. You know we're going to go down kicking and screaming. We're the boom. We are not. It's going to fade away into the sunset. Yep. You know, we've got Keith Richards and Mick Jagger and Bruce Springsteen ahead of us.
Mm-hmm. And we are not giving up hear It's, and you know that's when you're talking about differences, there's part of the differences. Yeah. We're not tolerating the, we don't, we know we're getting older, but we're not going to look older. Well, we're going to try our best not to. Yeah. Stay in shape, eat good food work out, have a healthy lifestyle, and have plenty of aesthetic services.
Non-surgical for the most part. Yep. And then every now and then have a little nip and tuck and that's the difference. And that's my game plan. Yep. That also creates the other thing, I built a private door to my big office for the stars and for the people that were embarrassed, guess what? In the last decade, it had cobwebs.
No. Used it. Even the stars didn't use it. Mm. And I rattle off the names of tons of them, and they didn't use it. They didn't care. They were signing autographs for God's sakes. And they're on social media. It's crazy. So, the privacy thing that the stigma of having aesthetic plastic surgery or aesthetic cosmetic services, it doesn't exist anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I have no qualms about saying all the, oh my God, I've had so much done. It's crazy. And I'm 65 and I don't want to look like my grandmother at 65. I just, I can't get there. I'm, I'm going, I'm going kicking and screaming with you.
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Why don't you pull a picture out of your grandma at 65, take it and put it side by side with you in marketing this talk and say Steven said, you are not your mother.
You're not your grandmother. Exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. I'll do that. I'll do an Instagram post as well on that, and I'll tag you.
Grant Stevens, MD: because My sister-in-law did that recently. She took a picture of her grandma, same age of as, as this woman is, and it was so funny. I swear to you, they're the same age and you look at them and the other one looks 20, 25 years older.
It's crazy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? So, to wrap it up is there, like, if you were going to give, cause this audience is basically surgeons and residents and fellows and it's more b2b, let's say. What, what advice would you give, not just the newbies, but people who have even like some of the surgeons who have been practicing for 20 years saying, what has happened here? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
I don't know where I'm going with all of this. Any advice for them to stay in the game because some of them aren't tired? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, obviously I touched on some of it and I still believe, I still believe. That we are physicians, the surgeons first. I still believe the crux of it, the core of it is being the best physician and surgeon.
But I know that's not where you're going with this. You're talking about sort of practice success and marketing success and so forth. But I, the number one thing is that but also home, the road less travel. I have a T-shirt and I have a whole mantra that always be yourself unless you can be a pirate and, and then always be a pirate.
And what I mean by that, and I didn't make that up. I read it. Okay. And I, but I use it. It's on t-shirts, it's on mugs, it's everywhere.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All I can think of is Johnny Depp right now. So, where are you going with the buyer thing? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah. Well, I am certainly a pirate and so is it's funny. So, is Eddie Yun, and I didn't even know, used that pirate analogy till we got together.
If you do what everyone else does, you are bound for mediocrity. So, the toughest thing, especially surgeons and physicians, they're, they're not the most creative people and they do follow rules and that's good. And we want our doctors to follow rules and we want our doctors to be safe, number one. But it turns out you're asking me what advice I give my fellows, and I have all 40 fellows, about 39 or FO 40.
First be safe and, and, and, and the best surgeon, but think outside the box. Think of ways that other people haven't done it. Don't do it the same way I did it. Don't do it the same way your neighbor does it. If, if you do, that's fine, but. It's a guaranteed of mediocrity and it's a guarantee with one of β
Catherine Maley, MBA: Have you always thought this way, this open? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
You are so entrepreneurial and open-minded and creative. And that's not normal for surgeons. You, you, you had to be pretty conservative and go by the books when you're becoming a surgeon. But then you have to ship gears and now be creative and that's, can you make that shift, you know? How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, I've always been an entrepreneur.
When I was four years old, I had a tomato route When I was five years old, I had an egg route. When I was seven years old, I had a paper route. When I was nine years old, I had four paperboys working for you. For me, I mean, and so forth. I've always been an entrepreneur. I just happened to love science and people.
And I went to med school and I came from a degree in psychology because I really love people and art and. I recognize because I interview all the fellows, I in residents, and I recognize I'm a unicorn. I reco. So, I call myself a pyro. But I'm telling you right now, these are the best and brightest people that I see.
These plastic surgeons and Platy residents are so much brighter than I ever was and at am and they need to think outside the box and not be afraid of it. Not be frightened by it. Again, start with best patient care and then think of ways in which they can put themselves on the map. You know, the other thing is the golden rule.
You know, your mother taught you before you went to, to in kindergarten, if you're fortunate enough to have a mother. Some of us weren't. I did have a wonderful mother, but do unto others as you would have them do under you, right? So, if you live by that credo, And you're a great surgeon. You just, everything follows thereafter and you'll be criticized for sure.
I remember I was criticized for my seminars and for all kinds of crazy things I could go into forever. But, but I, you asked for advice. My advice is think outside the box. Do creative things. Hey, and if it is TikTok, God bless you. Let it be TikTok. That's just not my gig. Right. And I'll, I'll respect the fact that that's what you chose to do.
And you'll get a bunch of patients, but then you better take great care of them because number one, they're getting home and tell their sister. And if you screw up, they're going to tell their sister. And bad news goes way faster than good news. The other thing is, you know, I'm not sure how much these guys are and gals are taking business school, but.
It takes a lot more effort to get a new patient than to keep a patient in the practice or the dry cleaners. It's oftentimes said it's seven times more expensive, sometimes eight. I've heard 10, but it's a big multiple. Yeah. So, keep the patient in your practice for God's sakes. Don't keep patients for life.
Don't just be a breast dog guy and just rotate and go around round, round, round. Keep them in there. Keep them in non surgicals. Even if you specialize, say in breasts or whatever, bring them in for non surgicals. Get someone else to do body or face, but keep them in your practice. It's far cheaper than acquiring new people.
That is a key part of being successful in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm so glad you said that. That has been my main message for the last 23 years, working with plastic surgeons, patients through life. It's cheaper, easier, they convert better. They give you that patient flywheel. If you get it right, it, there's no more, you're not advertising 10 times what you need to because you've got the patients doing it for you. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
I'm just glad you said that. Thank you. And so, for the last question, tell us something we donβt know about you.
Grant Stevens, MD: I love my doodles. I have three double doodles. I have tuxedo, I have blaze, and now I have little Gucci. Tuxedo is a double doodle, which is a cross between a golden doodle and a Labradoodle from American hunting doodles in Portland. One of his little nephews is Blaze and he has Tuxedo is named Tuxedo because he's a white spot here in his chest.
And he looked like a tuxedo when I first got him. And Simeon Wall gave him to me. Dr. Sin Wall gave him to me as a gift. Can you believe that? Did you want another dog? I had so many dogs up at the ranch. I never even dreamt of having another dog. He said on a Sunday, go down to Alaska Air Freight. I'm sending you a puppy as a thank you.
And I said, Simeon, I live at the beach. I don't need another dog. I have dogs. I've got 31 Labradors up at the ranch. I don't need a dog. He said, just go get it. It's Jelly's brother. I fell in love instantly. And Tux has been my sidekick, along with Aaron. Aaron Stevens, I might add. And, and Tux has been our sidekick only.
And then we got Blaze. And Blaze has the blaze pattern of horses. Of those of you who are who know horses, blaze is the white face and the white chest. And he's lovely. And he's tux is nephew. And then finally, recently we got Gucci, the first girl in the, in the deal. And Erin wanted Gucci. She fell in love with Gucci online, called up Scott Ferrell, who owns American hunting doodles.
And we were blessed to have Gucci. And she's down here in Manhattan Beach and she's in the Puppy Academy here in Osa Beach. And the other two are up waiting for me to go back to Sun Valley. I'm living in Sun Valley most of the time. I'm. Beach here temporarily to see a couple people and do a little business with companies, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well congratulations. I didn't realize you got married.
Grant Stevens, MD: Yeah, well, we're not married. Oh, no. We have the same last name. She changed her name and we're domestic partners for now. We haven't had wedding yet, but we just got Enough is enough. And so, it's Erin and Grant Stevens, and we're so happy.
And we'll announce when we have the marriage and the wedding.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you had to tell Google, because you know what happened when I was researching you today, I just put in like, grant Stevens, MD Surgeon, California Grant, Steven's wives, and you have four wives. You have photo. Yeah, you have four wives.
One of them was your old you know practice manager and then the others, I think. I don't know. But anyway, it looks like you had four wives, so I, you might want to tell Google that. How dare you. There's only Karen.
Grant Stevens, MD: Okay, let's be perfectly clear. My practice manager was never my wife. Let's get that clear.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Google doesn't think so.
Grant Stevens, MD: Well, I'm going to go check out and find out. So, I did have one wife before. Right. And a wonderful marriage. And that ended like for 30 years, right? 34-year months. That's a good run. Good for you. Yeah. Wonderful. And then I'm in the second phase and then I was working with and, and getting to know Erin and we've been together for many years now and so forth.
And we are domestic partners and we will be getting married and we couldn't be happier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, well Congrats you have Yeah, go ahead.
Grant Stevens, MD: I've seen that about Google, but I'll go on as soon as we're done right now Cause I, I've never had, I, I've only had one. My, I don't have four wives.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know. I was offended for you.
I said, this is, this is misinformation. But anyway, I just, I'm, I'm so pleased to see how you have transitioned because that's what a lot of the surgeons I hang around with, they're trying to figure out what do I do now? Like what do I do with this practice that I'm kind of ready to wind down, you know?
And look at all the options that, I mean, I hope everyone's clear that they have so many options. They can work with industry, they can work with business, they can work with vendors. They can do real estate. There's a lot of things you can do. You don't just have to be a surgeon anymore. So, think outside the box. How does this relate to this episodeβs title of βInsights From Grant Stevens, MD?
Grant Stevens, MD: Right? And the, you asked about advice number one. I would check out Engage Technologies. It will help. What is that? Well, hold on. And number two, I would use Patient five for all your patient financing. And number three, I would use subscription aesthetic services, the best of which is Privi, P R I V I. That is.
Without a doubt, the very best you get paid the very next day after you do the services, you don't chase down the patients, you will double your, your volume and double your patient revenue. I can show you from the Hi MD experience, I'll be talking about this to the Aesthetic Society and in octane in Nashville and, and other meetings coming up.
It, it will change everything in your practice. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's enough of that. You're the only one who's been allowed to promote stuff, so we're okay. Yeah, we're a clean podcast here.
Grant Stevens, MD: That's fine. You asked me what I do and I help them. They're going to hear me talk about it anyways. For sure. You can cut it out if you want.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, no, no, it's fine. Alright, well thank you so much Dr. Stevens. I do hope to see you someday. I'm, I'm just β
Grant Stevens, MD: So, hopefully get the next meeting?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's not going to happen, but maybe the next, next one. So, everyone with that I'm going to wrap up Beauty and the Biz and Dr. Stevens, if somebody did want to get ahold of you, what's the best way?
Grant Stevens, MD: drstevens@hotmail.com. drstevens@hotmail.com or stevensgrant13@gmail.com. They don't like Hotmail. My daughter gives me grief about being on Hotmail.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have not heard Hotmail in a long time. Yeah, but I'm glad you went Gmail eventually. So, good for you and thanks again for sharing your insights, Dr. Grant Stevens.
Grant Stevens, MD: They both worked. They both get.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on insights from Grant Stevens, MD.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Stevens, you can reach out to his website at, www.MarinaPlasticSurgery.com.
A big thanks for sharing his insights from Grant Stevens, MD.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βInsights From Grant Stevens, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#drgrantstevens #grantstevensmd #orangetwist #grantstevensinterview #theaestheticsociety
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and my 10 top practice pearls.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "200th Episode β 10 Top Practice Pearls".
Time really does fly. I am so excited to record this 200th episode of the Beauty and the Biz Podcast.
Four years ago, the Beauty and the Biz Podcast was created to talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and itβs been a great ride.
Itβs fascinating to hear how every practice is unique and runs differently because each surgeon is different in their beliefs, perceptions, understandings, and past experiences.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast is a compilation of the 10 Top Practice Pearls I gleaned from my guest interviews that you will find thought-provoking and even mind-bending.
Thank you so much for following my work and enjoy!
P.S. Please review!
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Transcript:
200th Episode β 10 Top Practice Pearls
Time really does fly. I am so excited to record this 200th episode β 10 top practice pearls of Beauty and the Biz. Four years ago, the Beauty and the Biz Podcast was created to talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and itβs been a great ride.
Itβs fascinating to hear how every practice is unique and runs differently because each surgeon is different in their beliefs, perceptions, understandings, and past experiences.
The majority of surgeons I interview are in solo practice, so they have the freedom to build and control their practice as they see fit.
However, thereβs a flip-side. It can be a lonely existence. You live in your own myopic world with no one to bounce ideas off, so you can easily lose perspective and waste time and money guessing what to do next to grow your practice.
Thereβs also a lot of fear around financial failure. Even though youβve had years of training to be a surgeon, you have not had equal amounts of training on running a business, leading a team, managing staff, working with fickle cosmetic patients, and marketing yourself in an uber competitive marketplace.
Thatβs why the Beauty and the Biz Podcast came about. Itβs a resource for you to learn from others who have been there and done that. Their challenges, opportunities, insights, mistakes, and wins.
I did the Top 10 Take-a-Ways from the FIRST 100 podcasts on episode #100, that you may want to go back and listen to since itβs full of good stuff, so I went through the last 100 podcasts and pulled out 10 more Top Practice Pearls and here they are:
Top Practice Pearl #1:
Build a Brand You Are Proud Of
Branding is how you present your practice to the world. Itβs how you build connection with prospective cosmetic patients. Itβs the way youβre seen through their eyes, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
Itβs your persona. It tells prospective patients what to expect from you in terms of quality, service, results, and price.
Branding is more than just your logo and website.
Itβs your story. Who you are, where you came from, why you became a surgeon, what you stand for, as well as your core beliefs and values.
Itβs your vision and your mission statement on your website that you and your team actually live by consistently.
Itβs your reviews, social media, before/after photos and your streamlined processes.
Itβs all facets of your practice representing you including your location, office, furniture and details count: Itβs Your hair, clothes, shoes, as well as your staffβs hair, clothes, shoes and so on.
The point is to be who you want to attract. If you donβt want price-shoppers who haggle with you, invest in your own high-end brand to attract high-end patients. Itβs that simple.
Top Practice Pearl #2:
Donβt Hope for New Patients β Market for New Patients!
A successful cosmetic practice is not happening by accident or by luck. They are doing something to make that happen. In todayβs competitive world, top practices execute many strategies to attract new patients, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. For exampleβ¦.
They enhance their online presence by updating their website look, making it mobile friendly, adding social media buttons and B/A photos and videos. They consistently add fresh, updated content that is informative, entertaining, and compelling because thatβs how you increase your digital footprint on the Internet.
They open their mind and embrace new marketing strategies such as Instagram Reels, YouTube Shorts and Facebook Lives since video is hot!
They have a marketing team of 1 or an agency with a good video editor they meet with regularly to plan and create content, so they are active on social media.
They may even start a podcast and/or patient webinar to educate consumer patients on their services.
And reviews, B/A photos and referrals are a priority. They focus on their patient relationships and the journey the patient has with them because they realize thatβs where reviews and referrals come from.
BTW, the surgeons who have thousands of before/after photos on their website got them because they asked the patients themselves. Typically, 1/3 said yes, 1/3 said yes with restrictions such as donβt show their face or only show them in the office and 1/3 declined.
The top practices typically have an ad budget and plan since organic SEO has become more challenging, so they need to advertise. However, they watch those numbers carefully to be sure they are at least breaking even, since they can make it back with valuable patients returning, referring, and reviewing.
Top Practice Pearl #3:
Automatic Marketing System
The top practices use marketing automation to map out automatic marketing plans with funnels, email automation, SEO, landing pages, opt-in forms and follow-up sequences to handle incoming leads more efficiently, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
They realize this is a numbers game and not all leads are equal, so they get help setting up technology to triage and respond accordingly.
And they also train their staff and hold them accountable on their lead gen process, so staff is clear where they fit into the system. This also frees up their staff to focus on priority leads and great customer service.
Before I go on, I want to comment on these first 3 pearls. Branding, advertising and marketing cost money. Hiring enough staff and the right staff costs money. But surgeons hate to lose money. So, they skimp in these areas and wonder why their competitors are doing better. The answer is because the top practices invest in their growth and hire the best they can afford. Itβs a mindset shift worth considering.
Top Practice Pearl #4:
Get Good at the Fundamentals
The biggest problem holding you back might be your narrow focus on "getting more leads". You might be throwing a ton of money at SEO, google AdWords, social advertising and directories OR youβre spending a ton of time creating content for your Instagram and Facebook followers.
Yes, itβs exciting to get lots of leads and comments but hereβs the kickerβ¦Leads are only one part of it.
These leads need to be converted because if you can't monetize these leads, then you're throwing money down the drain, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
The top practices know this and focus on all 5 key areas to attract and convert patients. That includes:
- Lead Generation
- Converting callers into appointmentsΒΒΒΒ
- Converting appointments into procedures
- Ensuring the patient is comfortable throughout the process and gets a good result
- So they become a raving fan who refers, reviews, returns and shares you on social media
Thatβs how you build a practice flywheel that keeps your practice humming along, so instead of buying a new $150K laser and hoping new patients flock to it, you fix your phones and train your coordinator to convert consultation to give yourself a $500K+ raise because you are not losing high value patients trying to give you money.
Top Practice Pearl #5:
Surround Yourself with A-Players
Staffing issues will be one of your biggest challenges when running a cosmetic practice. Miss hires cost you a fortune in time, money, sleepless nights, and bad mojo in the office, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
On the other hand, (1) A-Player will produce more than (3) of the miss hires so the top practices spend more time finding, training, and retaining top producers than fiddling with those who are not up for the challenge.
They get the right people on the bus and in the right seats, they give the right tools to do their job quickly and efficiently and they hold them accountable with metrics and evaluations.
They make it a priority to develop a positive culture that employees enjoy and are loyal to, because a negative culture creates angry or frustrated employees, poor communication, lack of passion, and staff feeling underpaid, overworked, and unappreciated.
They treat staff as a revenue-generating asset, rather than an overhead cost because they know their staff is their differentiator. They also acknowledge and recognize their staff with perks, bonuses, and fun.
Top Practice Pearl #6:
Predictable Revenue Streams
The top practices realize the value of cosmetic patients who want to look good today, next month, next year and for years to come, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
So, While surgery is their main focus, there is much money left on the table when that patient is treated as a βone and doneβ rather than as a βpatient for lifeβ.
Itβs getting too confusing, expensive and time intensive to constantly refresh with brand new stranger patients, so the top practices offer a loyalty/rewards program to nurture their patients to return, refer, review, approve their B/A photos and share you on social media with their friends and followers.
This gives them a competitive edge because it costs a fortune to attract a new patient and almost nothing to keep that patient loyal to you without spending a dime on advertising.
BTW, I can help you with that so let me know.
Top Practice Pearl #7:
Embrace Change
The top practices are not only good with change β they embrace it. They see challenges as opportunities to learn and grow. To improve their practice and better their best. To learn new skills, , which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
To take calculated risk, but plan for the unknown.
They face many challenges, but they keep their optimism that the future will be good and that gives them strength to tackle problems.
They are adaptable and able to abandon their old ways in favor of where the world is moving, i.e., they go digital and embrace social media and video.
They believe they have control and the power to shape their destiny. They depend more on themselves than on the whims of the world.
Top Practice Pearl #8:
Lead the Team
Thereβs a popular business quote from Peter Drucker that says,
βOnly three things happen naturally in organizations: friction, confusion, and underperformance. Everything else requires leadership.β
The top practices know that success starts at the top. They take responsibility for their wins and their losses and look at failure as feedback and keep on going.
They have passion and love for what they do and are driven to build a successful practice. They push themselves and their staff to excellence.
They study leadership principles and lead by example.
They are decisive and communicate clearly and meet regularly with their team to talk about their vision, values and goals.
They celebrate their wins, while acknowledging and appreciating their team.
They collaborate with their team and see this as a group effort since they canβt do it alone.
Note: Every top practice I have interviewed on Beauty and the Biz is giving back. It makes them feel good, it gives their staff a bigger βWhyβ and itβs also good for their brand, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls. Just saying.
Top Practice Pearl #9:
Resilience is a Skill
Resilience is defined as the capacity to withstand or to recover quickly from difficulties and challenges through mental, emotional, and behavioral flexibility and adjustment to external and internal demands, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
The surgeons running the top practices have resilience. They have bounced back from all sorts of setbacks including partnerships breaking up after working together for years, having long-term office managers abruptly quit, rogue associate causing drama in the office, embezzlement, frivolous lawsuits, illness, hurricanes, build-out permit delays, and it goes on and on.
But no matter what, they get back up, dust themselves off and get back at it. They know this is just a part of doing business and they keep their focus on the end result and solutions. They also turn to their trust advisors, colleagues, and friends for guidance.
AND LASTLY,
Top Practice Pearl #10:
Streamline, Scale and/or Sell
The top practices use their business and marketing skills to set up an efficient money-making machine that runs smoothly. They streamline their processes and have others manage the practice while they lead the way and oversee the numbers, which is a key point in my 10 top practice pearls.
Then they scale to have predictable revenue streams that are transferable. They set up profit centers and bring on other revenue producers to build value and revenues that are not dependent on them. Because the surgeons in the top practices are thinking ahead.
They ask early, βHow do I get off this treadmill and get my equity out when itβs time?β
They plan to have enough money to retire WELL and not have to step down in their lifestyle.
But oftentimes, their income is their lifestyle. Their assets become their wealth.
But they discover you make it on equity β not on income so they find investments that build their equity that is NOT dependent on them.
The current trend is private equity coming into plastic surgery practices and consolidating administrative areas such as payroll, HR, benefits, hiring, negotiating purchasing contracts for economies of scale and so on.
The practices that join the group build up their value by decreasing their overhead costs and streamlining their processes for increased efficiency, so they build equity to secure their future.
Stay tuned since Iβll have more guests on Beauty and the Biz talking about this, so you know your options.
And there you have it!
the Top 10 practice pearls I gleaned from the surgeons I interviewed in the last 100 episodes.
Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate your interest and Iβm working on the next 100 episodes so be sure to subscribe.
And, of course, please contact me if you could use some guidance OR, if you are looking for unbiased strategies to grow your practice, check out the www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com guaranteed to get you more patients and profits,
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on my 10 top practice pearls.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me on my 10 top practice pearls, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for β200th Episode β 10 Top Practice Pearlsβ.
A special thanks to all of my guest speakers over the past 100 episodes!
103 Kristi Hustak, MD https://kristihustakmd.com/
104 Philip J. Miller, MD, FACS http://www.drphilipmiller.com/
105 William P. Adams, MD https://www.dr-adams.com/
108 Michael T. Somenek MD https://somenekpittmanmd.com/
108 Troy A. Pittman MD FACS https://somenekpittmanmd.com/
109 Randy Waldman, MD https://www.waldmanplasticsurgery.com/
112 Dr. Andres Gantous https://www.torontofacialplastic.com/
118 Dr. Marco Pelosi III https://pelosimedicalcenter.com/
120 Dr. Angela Sturm https://drangelasturm.com/
122 Dr. Stanley Okoro, MD https://www.georgiaplastic.com/
126 Frank L. Stile, MD, FACS https://www.drstile.com/
135 Harvey Cole, III, MD https://oculusplasticsurgery.com/
137 P. Daniel Ward, MD https://www.wardmd.com/
139 Edwin Williams, MD http://www.williamsfacialsurgery.com/
141 Lauren Umstattd, MD https://faceleawood.com/
143 David Mandell, JD, MBA https://www.ojmgroup.com/
146 Robert Singer, MD https://www.primeplasticsurgery.com/
147 Joe Niamtu, DMD https://www.lovethatface.com/
149 Lionel Meadows, MD https://www.meadowssurgicalarts.com/
151 Brock Ridenour, MD https://www.ridenourplasticsurgery.com/
155 Mark Beaty, MD https://www.beatymd.com/
157 Michael Persky, MD https://www.drpersky.com/
159 Carlos Mata, MD https://www.naturalresultsaz.com/
161 Bradford Bader, MD https://www.baderfacialplastics.com/
163 Sheila Barbarino, MD https://barbarinosurgicalarts.com/
164 Diana Ponsky, MD https://www.drdianaponsky.com/
166 Charles Boyd, MD https://www.boydbeauty.com/
167 Paul M. Parker, MD https://www.parkercenter.net/
168 Jeffrey Spiegel, MD https://www.drspiegel.com/
170 Sam P. Most, MD https://med.stanford.edu/drmost/about-us/meet-dr-most.html
171 Jennifer Levine, MD https://www.drjenniferlevine.com/
172 Alexander Rivkin, MD https://westsideaesthetics.com/
173 Steven Camp, MD https://www.campplasticsurgery.com/
175 Kristina Zakhary, MD https://facialcosmeticsurgery.ca/
176 Lamar Rutherford, MBA https://excellenssolutions.com/
177 Jason S. Hamilton, MD https://blacknosejob.com/
178 Thomas P. Sterry, MD https://www.drsterry.com/
179 Giancarlo Zuliani, MD https://www.zulianimd.com/
182 Jeremy Warner, MD https://warnerplasticsurgery.com/
186 Burke Robinson, MD https://www.robinsonfps.com/
187 Lawrence B. Keller, CFP https://www.physicianfinancialservices.com/
188 Jason Pozner, MD https://www.sanctuarymedical.com/
189 Ryan Neinstein, MD https://neinsteinplasticsurgery.com/
190 Gregory Mueller, MD https://drgregmueller.com/
192 Nicholas K. Howland, MD https://howlandplasticsurgery.com/ 193 Sam Lam, MD https://www.lamfacialplastics.com/
194 Lisa Marie Wark, MBA https://www.lisamariewark.com/
195 Jason Bloom, MD https://www.bloomfacialplastics.com/
196 Emily Hartmann, MD https://www.beautyeternalchico.com/ 198 Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD https://byrdadatto.com/
199 David Kaufman, MD https://www.thenaturalresult.com/
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how outsourcing is trending.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Outsourcing is Trending β with David Kaufman, MD".
There is a trend happening in our industry to outsource the parts of your practice that you donβt enjoy doing such as:
- HR
- Benefits
- Management
- Inventory and so on
Its popular in other industries to consolidate these tasks for increased efficiency as well as economies of scale to decrease overhead costs.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with David Kaufman, MD who is a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Fresno, CA.
He is in the process of transitioning his practice to allow him to focus on surgery versus the business side of surgery.
He explains what he gains and what he loses when he hands off this part of this practice and how this outsourcing is trending amongst cosmetic practices.
So interestingβ¦
Visit Dr. Kaufmanβs website P.S. Please review!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Outsourcing is Trending β with David Kaufman, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now I have a really special guest today. He was on here before, but he came back for a new topic on how outsourcing is trending amongst cosmetic practices. It's Dr. David Kaufman. Now he's a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Folsom, California. And for those of you who know, it's near Sacramento, California. So, he's been on Beauty and the Biz before.
But this time we're going to talk about a new trend that we're calling private equity and plastic surgery, and how those two fit together. Dr. Kaufman, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
David Kaufman, MD: Thanks for having me back, Catherine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, let's just start with, just describe the, your practice that you have right now in Folsom. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Sure. So, we have a, a primarily cosmetic practice. It's basically full service, aesthetic surgery. So, we currently have three surgeons under roof. I've been here for 16 years. My associate, my senior associate's been here for five. And then we just brought on a new surgeon a few months. So, like I said, now there's three of us.
We have a med spa that does really pretty well. We've got two nurse injectors and an esthetician. And then we have two operating rooms. We have a 13,000 square foot building and you know, we're just living the train here in California.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, me too. Yeah. So, I didn't realize you brought on another surgeon. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
Good for you. Wow.
David Kaufman, MD: She's great and she's a she, which is a differentiator. You know, I think for us that was a nice gap in our practice that we didn't have before.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And are they associates, as in contractors, partners, what? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: They're employ, they're employed surgeons, so, they're employees.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Okay, so, let's talk about private equity.
This subject keeps coming up and I'm so, glad you are in the middle of it and you can help under help us understand it because I'm hearing different stories about it and what, what is private equity and how does that fit with plastic surgery?
David Kaufman, MD: That's a great question and that's hopefully what we're here to talk about today.
So, certainly that's a trend in plastic surgery. Our practice recently underwent a, what I call a strategic partnership, where we joined another group of practices. They have private equity backing, so, we're not directly contracting with private equity, but there are certainly some practices out there now that are being acquired by private equity groups to roll up practices and then create some economies of scale.
And obviously the private equities plan is to then sell them again, hopefully for a profit. You know, if I look at my personal situation, I turn 57 this week. Oh, by the way, ha. Happy birthday, Catherine. You too. And then, you know, if you look at historically the exit strategy for plastic surgeon is not great.
Typically, you know, plastic surgeons who to close down their practice or sell their practice to a junior associate for what might be, you know, one EBITDA or even less. You know, if you look at what private equity brings to the table, they're certainly bringing in. To take some equity off the table, but they also have a much better sense of how to run a business.
At this point, we have 35 employees and, you know, we're now a big business. We're not just a little mom and pop shop anymore. And our hope, at least in our perspective, is to be able to draw on the experience of these larger firms to consolidate HR, consolidate payroll, improved purchasing, create some economies of scale, and really take a small company and.
Run like a, a big, more efficient company. So, what turned me onto this was actually when I listened to your podcast, I heard Dr. Singer and he's actually the group that I ultimately ended up joining. Okay. But certainly, in medicine, these rollups I've worked across dermatology, across GI, across cardiology and, and others.
So, this is a thing. It's happening and even with a pretty tight debt markets transactions are still, still happen.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Let me just ask a stupid question. Is this a roll up business? Are you selling your practice in, in essence, are you selling your practice to private equity? So, then they build it up for you so, then everybody can roll up all of these practices and then sell it again like, and then you all leave with money, right? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: So, there's different strategies, of course, but at a very basic level, if a private equity firm comes. They will acquire part of your practice, there's going to be an expectation that you will stay on and re retain some equity. The goal then, though, is to aggregate profitability because let's say your practice has a profit of $1, it's really not worth that much on the open market.
Mm-hmm. If your practice has a profit of $10, that becomes more interesting to bigger private equity firms and your multiple of EBIT, it becomes. So, you know, the goal is to aggregate practices, to create greater EBITDA, to create efficiencies across the different practices and then create a much more interesting platform to purchase for another group.
Or in theory you could go public, but you know, I think the second private equity play for bigger firms is probably the most likely play.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. By the way, he's saying EBITDA, just in case you don't know what that is. It's earnings before interest taxes and amortization. Yes. And that becomes really important, that word, when you're trying to create value for somebody else. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
Yes. To buy. So, is this your practice buying into here? Here's why I say this. I do real estate syndication. And the way you do those is a bunch of people who have extra money, they get together and they put in like how much they want, a hundred thousand, 200,000 for, and somebody has found the property.
There's going to, it's apartment rentals. So, somebody has found this property with two or 300, 400 units, and they can't buy it on their own. So, they get a bunch of investors together. We all put in ours. And then they buy it and they manage it and we're passive income, so, we're not involved. They make all the decisions, but when it's comes time to sell it, then we all get our money back, hopefully, and then a whole lot more with it, or it's affinity.
We try to hang onto that forever as a cash producing asset and then we never leave, you know? Right. Because well, we get our money back. Is it like that or is it something?
David Kaufman, MD: I wouldn't say it's like that. Okay. So, in this instance, and in most instances of, at least my friends that have done this, they sell some interest in their practice and they retain some interest.
Ah, the goal, of course, is to continue producing and creating value to the overall company. And then when the company sells, I eat that proverbial second bite of the apple. What's called rollover equity would be even more valuable than it's at the time of the original transaction. Most of these transactions are structured in that you roll over 20 to 40% of your purchase price.
And the reason why they do that is, you know, in plastic surgery you are the value. It's not like a management company where a manage management or a manager could be. I can't be replaced very easily and I'm not irreplaceable, but there would be a lot of value out loss if I left. So, the goal is to take some equity off the table with a cash and close, but then, you know, build a company so, that the role of equity becomes also a very valuable consideration down the road.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, why would a surgeon want to do this? Let's do the pros and the cons. Why would you want to? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: So, the pros are, you know, there's a lot of pros and granted, I'm fairly new into this, you know, we've only been acquired two months ago. But if you look at the things that you know specifically, we don't like doing as most plastic surgeons or office managers or practice managers, HR, payroll, buying you know, all the things that really are not sexy or interesting, those can all be aggregated into a central.
Office or essentially, you know, the backend could be shared through practices. Thereβre also economies of scale. You know, if I buy one implant, I might get it for $800. If I buy a hundred implants, I might get it for $400. So, there's certainly an economic consideration to increasing purchase power.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would that go also with the injectables? With all the Absolutely. Pharma companies? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we would consider you one big client of theirs then, because you'd be under the umbrella of a bigger�
David Kaufman, MD: Right. So, we become a corporate account as opposed to individual account and the buying power is meaningful.
Gotcha. And you know, even if you reduce your costs 10 or 15%, you know, over the course, Many dollars, it becomes meaningful. So, you know, if you could take a, a company and increase its profitability by 10 or 15%, just that in itself I think is a win. What else? You know, the, the world of plastic surgery is always uncertain.
You know, we are a luxury item and to some degree there will be some economic headwinds that we face occasionally. And I think doing a transaction like this for someone like me who is. More senior in their career, takes some equity off the table and gives me some financial security. So, that should things go, you know, very downhill.
Mm-hmm. Some of the equities off the table, so, there's some value there. And then, you know, ultimately my goal, and I think most surgeonsβ goals are that when we aggregate our efforts together, we improve our own practices and, and those of others, so, that when a second bite happens, if that happens, It becomes a, you know, a very valuable transaction.
So, you know, it's nice to have a little bit of security up at the upfront, and then hopefully there's some meaningful upside on the, on the back end.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm also thinking is does that. When they take over some of this HR and the inventory and all of that, does that mean you cannot hire two or three more people to do it yourself?
So, you're not managing it, you're not hiring for it, and you're, you're not spending money on that kind of labor cost. Is that a benefit or is that part of what you're trying to do here? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Certainly, that's the, the hope we haven't gotten there yet because at this point, you know, our integration into the parent company is requiring a fair amount of.
You know, the goal, of course, is to centralize a lot of the stuff that we currently have employees to do. Mm-hmm. And frankly, even if I can offload Kate, who's my wife's and office manager's plate that would be a win too. And I think that's going to happen because, you know, these, these functions are definitely being taken offsite.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now, who is managing or who, who does the employee work for?
David Kaufman, MD: So, The employees, in my case, work for the parent company and my parent company is Prime Plastic Surgery. Mm-hmm. So, my former employees are now employees of Prime Plastic Surgery, as are the other surgeonβs practices who have been acquired.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you see that as an, I'm just going to be devil's advocate here. I've talked to some of the doctors at Stanford, let's say, and Stanford, they're not employ, you know, they work for Stanford, they don't work for that doctor. And then you have to hope that that staff is okay with that. You know, you don't need to hear them saying, you know, I don't work for you.
Like, can you imagine that happening? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, you know, I think that then becomes an issue of leader. You know, I'm still the leader of this practice. I still make, you know, most of the decisions. Obviously, if there's something critical, I would ask for input from the parent company, but for the most part, our day-to-day existence is very similar as it was previously.
You know, we still have the same surgeons, we still have the same teammates. They didn't install someone in here as like the new practice manager? They did or did not? They did not. Okay. You know, we have historically been a successful practice, at least by, I, I don't know, however you want to find success. And I think we've been reasonably successful.
We want to maintain that. So, you know, we don't want a cultural shift. And that was something that I carefully investigated before we made this transaction is. You know, we have a successful practice with a very wonderful staff. And I was assured that I would still be able to make decisions about compensation bonuses and things like that to make sure that people still have, you know, the right focus and incentive to provide great care for our patients here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you have any resistance to the staff or anybody thinking, oh, what just happened? Did you, how, how did you handle that? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, we had basically a, a screw up. We announced that we were going to do this transaction almost six weeks before it happened. We thought it was going to happen sooner than it did, and for, you know, some number of reasons it didn't happen as quickly as we thought it did.
So, at first there was a lot of anxiety because change brings anxiety. Yeah. But I think as time passed people realize that, you know, they still come to work, they still take care of patients, they still work with the same people that. Benefits were very, very similar to what they were previously, and that their work really isn't that different.
It just, you know, the, the person who signs the check now is different. So, we've lost no employees. I think we have very good buy-in from them in terms of still focusing on great patient care. And so far, so good. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, why wouldn't you want to do this? Yeah. Like, gimme the, the, what's the negative? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. It's risk. You know, you're, you're doing a deal and you're getting into bed with people. You hopefully, you know, but you never know until probably years down the road. So, you're going to give up some autonomy and that's not always easy. Ultimately, you'll have to play in a sandbox with other people.
You know, the parent company may have ideas of how to do things and you may have ideas of how to do things and somehow another, you need to reconcile those and that everybody is happy enough.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Like do they stay out of the surgical side and then you stay out of the HR side? Is it like, can it be that like line in the sand?
Can it be like that? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: I'm sure any agreement is possible. I don't imagine that some bean counter's going to come in and show me how to do surgery. But you know, I think they probably have ways that they want to do inventory or HR sort of thing. But again, you know, we're only two months into integration and we're trying to figure some of this stuff out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hmm. You know, you, I know this was your second go around. You had tr you had actually almost closed with a different group. Can you just talk about that for a second? Because I really want the audience to hear what, to watch for sure. What, what are the yellow flags or what could go wrong? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: So, the first go round, we went out to market, had some suitors.
We went through management meetings and ultimately, we chose to enter into a letter of intent with a private equity group out of Chicago. And we lawyered up. We got all our documents ready to go. We had gotten to essentially within 10 days of close, it was going to be a very different structure. It was more the traditional private equity purchases, some portion of our practice.
In that case, it was going to actually be a minority interest they were going to buy and we were going to be the platform on which to go out and acquire other practices. Mm-hmm. It's unclear to me exactly what happened, but in the. When we got very close to sort of consummating the deal, they didn't follow through on what they were supposed to do and the deal blew up and we were done.
It was incredibly disappointing. There was four to six months of efforts negotiating management meetings, onsite meetings you know, in excess of a hundred thousand dollars of legal costs, not to mention the time. And in the end, you know, I was smarter. But, you know, I had nothing to show other than, you know, a couple of bumps and bruises and a little bit of a, a little bit of an experiential learning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. D was this like, so, with the lesson B, don't be the first, like, join a group, like join private equity that's already been in the game. Is that this, the, the point to that. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: I think it would've worked had we gotten across the finish line. I think it depends on what you want. I think if you, in that case, we are going to be the platform on which to build other practices.
Right. And I think that is an enormous amount, amount of work as opposed to being an add-on, which we are now. Because being an add-on, you know, the, it's already working right, and we're just integrating ourselves into that as opposed to sort of creating the. But it sort of depends on where you are in life, what your ambitions are, how much time you want to dedicate to it, because, you know, being the platform and building out the infrastructure is enormous and that should not be underestimated.
So, you know, that's sort of what the private equity firms are there to help with. But ultimately, if you're the first, you're going to be doing a, a lot of work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, what's the private equity? How are they looking at this and why? Why plastic surgery? Because they never went there before. They went with derms. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
Like derms were just obvious to them. They had a lot of volume. They could com commoditize it. Like why? Why does plastic surgery look interesting to them now?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, I think the other markets have proven to be successful and now I think they're moving into this space. I think they've been very successful in dermatology, certainly in dentistry.
Gi. And I think that, you know, the world is now accepting that plastic surgery is just a normal part of life. Mm-hmm. And, you know, look at plastic surgeons. Not many of them run their businesses exceptionally well. And here's a chance for an equity group to get in there, inject a little capital and operations, and improve, improve profitability.
It's a little bit of a beta test now because there haven't been too many plastic surgery groups that. Hit it big, but like, look at Air Sculpt, they're a, you know, I think there's 17 or 20 lipo center sites and they're valued in the 700 million. It's absurd. So, you know, I think it's, it's a real thing and the firms are interested.
I think it, as more and more practices are acquired and aggregated and hopefully exited will prove a successful model and even create more.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I, I like to follow the money. That's kind of my thing. Sure. So, a plastic surgeon who's doing really well, but is so, tired of the running of the practice, they would buy in or the other way around, the PE would buy into them.
Who's buying into whom? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: So, the, the, the cash flow was from the PE firm to a strategic partner to a practice or directly from the PE firm to. Plastic surgery practice, but understand, you're, you're basically selling some of your EBITDA to the private equity firm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, it's not like, you know, there is transaction, there's, there's value being traded for cash, who decided what the value is? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: So, that's a good question. And if you look at how practices are valued mm-hmm. You look at what your EBITDA is, and as you mentioned, earnings before interest, taxes, and amortization. That's essentially what your annual profit is. Okay. You then take away from that what your ongoing salary is going to be.
So, let's say I'm making $10 a year and I'm going to make $2 a year. The EBITDA that I'm selling is $8. Okay. So, then that EBITDA is multiplied by some multiplier, and that in the plastic surgery world could be probably as low as three or four to as high as maybe 10 if you've got a super robust practice.
Mm-hmm. And that's called your. Total enterprise value. So, let's just say for ease of numbers, you've got eight of saleable EBITDA and your multiple is 10. Mm-hmm. Your total enterprise value is now $80. That's the value of your practice. Mm-hmm. Then that value is sort of parsed up into three parts.
Those parts are the cash should close, the rollover equity, equity that we talked about before, and then there's sort of a middle grounds, which is. Earns. Mm-hmm. So, those are monies that are paid as long as your practice continues to perform and those levers can be moved up and down. Like the more rollover equity, you would be willing to put in, you might be able to squeak your multiple a little bit higher.
Mm-hmm. You know, if you want a lot of cash on clothes, they're going to crank down in the multiple because, you know, there's more flight risk of you just leaving and leaving them high and dry with a practice that doesn't produce. But that's, you know, that's sort of a nutshell of how practices are. I think in general it's a very good idea to go out and get an outside quality of earnings evaluation so, they can actually look at your practice an expert can, and run the numbers so, that when you go to market, you know you're not going to market with some inflated or completely ridiculous estimation of your own.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do the private equity people, do they understand our industry or is it, one of my issues is although everyone says my business is different, we all say that my practice is different. But business is business for sure. But how much creativity do you still have on your own, like for marketing or branding?
Like who are you now? Are you brand, are you still branded? Is. PE company branded. How's that working? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Yeah, so, that's a great question and I think it, again, it depends on who you work with. So, there's a company out there called a Phoenix, which I'm sure you're probably all, at least on the West coast familiar with.
Mm-hmm. They brand their practices as the athe group of plastic surgeons. Mm-hmm. The one I'm with is different. We maintain our own branding, so, just like hotels, like you might stay at a, a Kimpton by Marriott. Mm-hmm. Well, my practice is my practice name. Part of the practice network or something like that.
So, we allow, or we're allowed to maintain our own branding because I think we have a lot of brand equity in our area. We don't want to scrap that. Mm-hmm. But there is some co-branding with the parent company, so, that way, you know, someone takes a look, they, they understand that we are part of a bigger group.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then are they paying for the marketing efforts of everybody? How is that going? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, ultimately, since they're the owners of the company and all the money is theirs, both in terms of income and outflow. Mm-hmm. In theory they are, yes. But we still largely control what we're doing from a marketing standpoint.
That's one of the things that we're working on collectively in terms of how to optimize our marketing. So, we now have a central VP of marketing trying to coordinate some of our efforts, look at be best practices, track the data, and see what's successful and hopeful. You know, disseminate best practices and try and minimize the ones that have historically not worked.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, they bring the, the value that they're bringing to you is like business people. They're bringing you the, the market, the VP of marketing, the VP of inventory, the v, like they're, they understand the, the numbers part of a practice. I just find this so, interesting. It's a lot of players involved. Like is it, is there like a board of directors?
Yes. Or� How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Yeah, there is. And you know, most of us who have put our practices into this group have a seat on the board so, that we have some say in how things are done. Yeah. But you know, the goal. Taking a bunch of small practices and turning them into a big practice with economies of scale efficiencies and best practices across the platform with the goal of when it's time for you to exit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because they don't need you there for a year. They need you to stay put.
David Kaufman, MD: Right, right. So, in my particular deal, I have a few years of turnout. So, it's not like I got a big pot of cash and walk, I could walk away. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm, I'm tied to this both because I have financial ties, but also, I really want to see this through.
Like, this is something that I think could be transformational within plastic surgery. Right. And may change the landscape. And I think if we do it well, it could be the model for, you know, many years to. You know, if you screw it up, then you know, it's just crash and burn and that's no good, but it's going to take some effort.
And, you know, I'm, I'm committed as I believe the other people who have joined this group are committed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you joined a good group with you know, I mean, Robert Singer is solid, you know, he's, but now like, like let's say he's getting older, you know, how, how do you step out of this if you need to or want to? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. So, in theory, after. Earnouts. Mm-hmm. I would still have equity in the overall company and if I wanted to work less, I could, because I would just earn less because I still have a salary based on production. But I would just write off into the sunset and, you know, hopefully our group will start a fellowship because we have these multiple locations for fellows to learn through multiple different surgeons and locations, how things are.
Our hope then is to take those fellows and backfill the people that leave. We'll see how that works. Cause this is all very new and mostly conceptual. Mm-hmm. But it, I think there's something to be said for a, a fellowship that has five or six different practices to draw from, from in multiple different geographic locations.
And then of course, you know, we'll be looking at them and hopefully they'll be looking at us. And if we find a match, if it's time for someone to leave or another practice is ready to bring on another associate, that will be a perfect person to quit in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know, with the trends, the way they're going, you can't be a fellow with a million or two extra to invest in some practice you know, to buy somebody else's practice.
So, that actually makes a lot of sense because those days it's not going to happen. Usually if they had one or 2 million, they'll just open their own place, typically. But if you let them get into a, something like this, I assume, They're walking in without an investment, maybe being, making an investment.
However, that also holds them back from equity. They probably don't get equity for a while. So, is that also one of the points? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: So, certainly there's zero risk to onboarding and for a young surgeon who is right out of training. It's a great opportunity to both learn aesthetic surgery, because historically residency practice, the residencies have not been great at training in that regard.
Mm-hmm. You know, at that time in your life, typical, typically people don't have a whole lot of money to buy a practice or buy a building or build an OR. Right. And then the goal is, you know, if a, a younger surgeon joins and over the course of the first few years shows promise or commitment, you know, Trying to craft some ways to create equity or at least phantom interests for you know, younger surgeons to keep them committed to the long-term success of the practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And then would you want more and more practices joining? Is that helpful to have that big economy, scales of economy, however, or economies to scale? However, is there a point of getting too big and getting lost in all of this and imploding? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Sure. Well, I think that the answer to that, Growth is always well usually desired.
Mm-hmm. Certainly, we need to work out the kinks of onboarding so, that as PR new practices are integrated in, they're done in such a way that it's not disruptive to the practice, so, that they don't take a hit on the way in. I don't know what the exact right number is for a target to either, you know, sort of go up for a second offering or consider public.
My sense is in the, you know, the 30 to 50 million of EBITDA, so, once you aggregate to that level, that big, that puts you on the radar of big PE firms or maybe even considering, you know, public offerings. Mm-hmm. But you know, we're not anywhere near that, but we're working in that drip general direct.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just thought of something for you to make this work, somebody like the centralizing has to know the numbers.
Yes. And they have to consolidate and know they, they need data. Yes. Is everybody going to need to be under the same EMRs? Yes. Phone systems payment plan, all of that is, will all of that be consolidated essentially? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, we, we are already on the same EMR. Okay. Some of the practices have use of the MR than others.
And that's one of the things that certainly the IT department will work on is bring everybody up to speed. So, there's similarity across platforms. I believe we're all running on the same accounting system. Oh, the same bill pay system. So, that's truly a centralized company with essentially, regional offices as opposed to just a bunch of people strung together on quick.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. That would be confusing.
David Kaufman, MD: Yeah. Well, they, they have a, in my opinion, at least from the feedback I've gotten from Kate, an exceptional chief financial officer and, you know, there's a, there's a lot to keep track of. There's a lot to keep track of for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is, has this been like a part-time job for you?
A full-time job? What kind of time goes into it? How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, I would say that my lovely wife, Kate, it's been all consuming because she runs our practice and she's always made it. So, you know, I just have to operate and, you know, see patients and she takes care of making the machinery work around us. Mm. So, it's been an enormous undertaking on her part, for which I am deeply, deeply in depth.
But no, it's, it's a you know, it's been a lot of. But I think we, I hope that we see the light at the ender of the tunnel, which is efficiencies that take a lot of the crap that she doesn't like to do off her plate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And make them. Not everyone married as well as you. You know, others are really stuck in the middle of all of this drama that goes on in the office.
And if you, I mean, most surgeons I talk to would like nothing more than to do surgery and nothing else, you know? Yeah. And not deal with this. So, this is a new option for those who are really looking for a way to not exit so, much as to just. Shift things. So, you're just a lot happier doing what you like to do, and I'm not bogged down with what you don't like to do. How has this factored in with your understanding that outsourcing is trending?
David Kaufman, MD: You know, there's a lot of merit in what you just said and you know, I think there's, there's something, something there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Kaufman, it is always a pleasure talking to you. If anybody wants to reach out to you, how would they do so?
David Kaufman, MD: Sure. My cell phone is (650) 387-6066.
Email works, david@thenaturalresult.com, or certainly you can find me on the internet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, and his website is the natural results.com or is it one result?
David Kaufman, MD: Singular. Singular.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You only get one result. Yes. www.TheNaturalResult.com? Yes. All right. Thank you so, much. I really appreciate it. And let's see what happens.
I mean, this really makes logical sense. It's the matter of, I just my 2 cents. Know your business partners. Intimately because you are going to be in a relationship with them for a very long time. Things can go sideways. Make sure you're with somebody who can negotiate and debate nicely without going to war.
You know? I mean, what, what, what do you think, what, what, what, what would you be, what would be your advice to others who go into these kinds of partnerships?
David Kaufman, MD: Well, I would say work with people that you generally like, because there will be difficult decisions that need to be make at some point in concessions that have to be made for both sides.
And having someone that is a reasonable and has the big prize in mind, I think that's critical. So, we're at the, the, you know, the early stages of this and I'm very excited the way, see it, how it turns out. And I'll certainly keep you posted as, as things progress.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on outsourcing is trending.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Kaufman, you can reach out to his website at, www.TheNaturalResult.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Kaufman for sharing his insights on the fact that outsourcing is trending.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βOutsourcing is Trending β with David Kaufman, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#surgerypracticeoutsourcing #outsourcingistrending #trendsinoutsourcing
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and reputation management.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, todayβs episode is called "Reputation Management β with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD".
At the medical conferences I speak at, thereβs usually a talk about reputation management and how to keep %*@^ from hitting the fan and ruining your name.
So, I invited one of the countryβs leading authorities on medical malpractice and reputation management to update you on how to stay out of trouble and keep your reputation as stellar as possible.
Jeffrey Segal, MD, JD is a board-certified neurosurgeon, but heβs also an attorney and partner at ByrdAdatto law firm. He's also a reputation management expert. Dr. Segal focuses on keeping doctors from being sued for frivolous reasons and to minimize the need for difficult reputation management.
On this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast on reputation management, Dr. Segal and I talked about:
How to protect, preserve and manage your reputation online
How to spot trouble early so your reputation management take far less effort
How to handle patients with mental health issues who can cause havoc with your reputation management and a lot moreβ¦
Every surgeon who has done enough surgery has or will experience patients who become problems, so this episode gives you strategies to help with your reputation management.
Visit the website of Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD P.S. If you enjoy Beauty and the Biz, I would appreciate a 5-Star Review to grow the audience to help more surgeons.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Reputation Management β with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD (Ep.198) Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and reputation management. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying", as well as consultant of plastic surgeons. To get them more patients, more profits and better reputation management. But today's talk is a little different.
We've got a very special guest whoβs an expert at reputation management. His name is Dr. Jeffrey Segal. Now he's not only a board-certified neurosurgeon who trained at Baylor College of Medicine. He also just happens to have graduated from Concord Law School. So, he's also an attorney and he's also a partner at ByrdAdatto law firm, and a reputation management guru.
So, Dr. Segal launched a company called Medical Justice in 2002, and Medical Justice is the physician-based organization focused on keeping doctors from being sued for frivolous reasons and to help with their reputation management. That's why he's on here. This is becoming more and more of an issue. So, Dr. Segal also founded eMerit to help doctors protect and preserve their reputations and teaches reputation management, particularly online.
Now, Dr. Segal has established himself as one of the country's leading authorities on medical malpractice, online reputation, and reputation management, and I hear him talk at the meetings all the time. He's a really popular, he's got such a popular topic because it's a hot topic, and it probably always will be. So, Dr. Segal, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Hey, Catherine, thanks for allowing me to participate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Just out of sheer curiosity, how does, how does one go from a neurosurgeon to an attorney and reputation management expert? Because that didn't take a couple minutes. That took years and years to become one, to then become a lawyer, and that took a whole lot of time to then become more entrepreneurial.
What was that path like? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Well, it's interesting because I did not intend that to be the case, and it's like having that conversation with your parents and your wife, how that happened. In between, I was in biotechnology, so, I practiced as a neurosurgeon for a decade. Perfectly happy doing that. And then I had a son who became ill.
He's better now, but I took a year off. We moved to North Carolina to seek services for him, and I became persuaded that a certain set of pharmaceutical compounds might help him. And in that process went to where they were on a shelf, university of North Carolina licenses, compounds, raised money, and started a biotechnology company.
So, if. Knowing what I now know, I probably would not have done it, but we're able to move these compounds pretty far along from preclinical to phase two, get the company sold to a medical device company. By then, a number of years had gone by. Question was whether I can go back to practicing neurosurgery.
I thought since so, many years had gone by, it'd be a challenge to per, you know, to reasonably persuade a passion to go under the knife, even though I'm arrogant enough to believe I could do it. I'm not sure I had these, the persuasive skills to do that. So, I formed medical justice and got a law degree along the way.
So, in some sense you could just say, I'm confused. Another sense you can say I'm a lifelong student.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're probably both, right? So, the thing about frivolous lawsuits and subpar reputation management: How did that come about? Because you wouldn't have had that issue as a neurosurgeon, but you certainly would as a solo practitioner, plastic surgeon.
So, how did you segue into that world? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah, it's a great question. I actually did have it happen to me as a neurosurgeon. Oh. And I was sued one time for what I perceived to be a frivolous reason. The single expert who testified against me had actually been expelled previously from our professional society, the American Association of Neurological Surgeons.
Why? Because he was delivering frivolous testimony. Yet, even though he'd been booted out of our professional society, there he was on the circuit making a very handsome living testifying, saying one thing on one coast, saying the exact opposite on another coast, but his core competence, He had good communication skills.
He could speak well to a jury, so, he was in demand. In any event, I, he had never seen or done the case at issue, but it didn't stop him from running his mouth. The case was dismissed about two weeks before trial. I never felt as if I lost won anything. I just felt as if I lost less and I thought there has to be a better way.
So, we started medical justice as a way of holding proponents of these frivolous lawsuits accountable. In one sense, what do we do? We sue lawyers that inappropriately sue doctors. And more broadly, over time, we've expanded our mission to deal with all types of conflicts. Goal is to deescalate a conflict.
I mean, by the time people get to lawyers. There's a lot of conflict in the background. And there are, and in fact, this is probably a good segue to talk about, well, what kind of conflicts are there, what types of, what types of Sabre rattling takes place and well, all types. The, it typically gets started with yelling, screaming, or nasty emails.
Somebody doesn't, somebody says they don't like how they were treated, for example, that's the lowest level. Or they could put a nasty note on the internet. They can file a complaint to the Board of Medicine. All of that requires no effort whatsoever. They could sue you in small claims court. They could hire a lawyer to send a threatening demand letter or they can sue you.
So, a gazillion ways for a conflict to take place. That's the bad news. The good news is there are ways, if you are attentive, To the process to head this off at the past before there's litigation, before there's a nasty note on the internet before they even start yelling at you. There are plenty of ways to identify trouble before it shows up at your door and avoid this before it creates a headache.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you being a cosmetic patient myself and just, and just being in this industry for decades, I have noticed that a lot could have happened at the beginning to prevent the drama happening at the end. And let's just talk about patient selection, in terms of reputation management. I know so, many surgeons, and I don't know if it's arrogance or just.
Whatever, but they don't want to say no to, to the surgical procedure or the money or whatever, and they always think they're going to be able to handle it. Even if staff is saying, I don't know about this one, I'm not feeling good about that. Can we just start there? Like, what? What can they do to just cut it off at the beginning? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah, so, the first thing is to select your patients carefully. It's a cash pay business. There's this tendency to want to get everybody through the door. Nobody will ever have on their epitaph. I wish I had done one more patient that that epitaph does not exist on a gravestone. So, be. There are a handful of patients you not only should say no to, you must say no to.
They're not great candidates for surgery. You may believe they have a cosmetic problem or an aesthetic problem that you can solve, but that's not their underlying problem. If a patient comes in there and says, Hey, look, I just want to take three or four years off. I just want to feel better. That's probably a good candidate for a procedure.
If a patient comes in and says they're struggling to put food on the table and a roof over their head and they're struggling financially, or if they believe that the procedure will shave off 30 years, or if the procedure will save their marriage. Not a great candidate. Those are people who have expectations that cannot be managed.
You cannot manage those expectations. The best thing to do is to say no. And the other thing is that there are. Cash pay businesses where patient will have a particular budget and you say, I can't do that for you, but I can do something at 10% of that cost. But you know, in your heart of hearts, it's not really going to do what the patient wants.
They'll be back, they'll believe, they will have believed that somehow, they're getting a permanent solution when they're only getting a four-week solution. Expectations aren't managed, just don't do it. I'm telling you that the amount of extra revenue that you get for that one patient will pale, pale in comparison to the headache that you will experience.
And I've often said that in with the benefit of hindsight, if you had known that this particular patient would cause this much agony in your life, would you have paid them? Would you have given them a check in advance of seeing you to stay out of your practice? Hundred percent of practices say yes, I would've paid them.
I'm still waiting for the one to say no. I probably would not have paid them to stay away. No, they, they will, they will tear your soul out and they'll rip out. You know, your, you know your desire to practice medicine right at your bone marrow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have a professional way to tell a patient No, because I have found these patients are still going to slam you online when you say no, you know, is there a w the right way to do it without them giving you a bad review about it? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Maybe, I think I, I'm going to say upfront that even if, first of all, you should be capturing feedback from patients so, that if you get the inevitable bad review, it's not a showstopper, it's not going to destroy your practice. In fact, I will argue having an occasional negative review amongst a C of positive reviews is actually a good thing.
I think it's actually better than having a hundred percent positive reviews. Why? Because it demonstrates authenticity, credibility, et cetera. If you have a hundred percent five-star reviews, let's say you have 500 five-star reviews and just says, great doctor, love you, you know, there's no meat to the review it.
It looks like marketing material, but having an occasional negative reflects reality. The public knows you cannot make everybody happy. The Ritz Carlton doesn't make everyone happy. The public wants to see how you can solve a problem. So, if you have an unhappy patient and you've at least work to try to solve their problem, you can tele telegraph that in a HIPAA compliant way.
Good for you. I think you're better off now when you get that negative review. You don't feel like sending flowers and chocolate to that patient. Of course, but you should. You probably should. Only because I think holistically it's, it's helping you. But anyway, back to your very good question. How do you gently.
Give somebody the boot, if you will, you know, without being offensive. And I think the way to do it is to validate them. Say, look I'm not disagreeing with your, you know, with your treatment plan, what you're requesting. I just do not believe I will be able to meet your expectations. I'm not suggesting no one will be able to meet your expectations.
I just don't believe that I can meet them. And I. I just want you to be happy. I want you to be happy, and in doing so, I don't think it would be a good idea for me to take your money, ultimately go through a procedure and you not be satisfied or happy. Now, that will work with most people. There are, there's a small subset of patients who do not have a core aesthetic problem.
They have a mental health problem. Mental health problem may be something like body dysmorphic disorder, just to give this a, a name and there it's a body image problem. It doesn't matter what they see in a mirror. They don't. They experience a different image. And when you operate on somebody with body Dysmorphic disorder or B D D, you're actually doing them a disservice.
I mean, arguably it's malpractice, but I would just say, you know, more, more charitably, you're doing them a disservice. And the proper thing to do is to refer them to a healthcare professional, mental health professional who deals with body image problems. As an aesthetic practitioner, you do what you know how to do.
But let's say for example, a patient came in there and they had, they had a kidney stone, or say they had chest pain. You'd send them to a urologist for the kidney stone. You'd send them to a cardiologist for chest pain. You would properly refer. Then if you can identify, if you can make a presumptive diagnosis of something like B D.
D. Having a preexisting relationship with a mental health professional that you can gently pass the baton over to for additional screening. You're doing them a favor. And in some sense, you could say, I'm not saying no forever. I'm just saying no for now. I just want you to be screened and be evaluated by somebody that I know, somebody that I trust, and they can give you a clearance.
But if you've got a good screening tool for b d d, being able to gently. Get them referred to the proper individual in many senseen. I mean, you were really doing them a favor. Will they write you a bad review? Typically, they will not. Can I promise? They will never write a bad review. No, I can't. But I, I can tell you that if you, you do the right thing most of the time on balance, you will be better off than operating on that passion or just kicking them out the door and saying, I can't help you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Just good luck with that. But now that we have social media, I see every day I, I don't know if it's B, d, d or whatever you want to call it, but the outrageous big boobs, big butt, little waist, huge lips. Is that b d, d or is that just, what is that? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: You tell me. Yeah, so, I, I'd have to plead ignorance there. I'm in North Carolina.
I don't see it as frequently as perhaps you do on the West Coast, but, but you know, I've been to Miami and I've definitely seen it there and I can, I can tell a trend and every three or four years the trend changes so, that it's something else. I think you just got to do what you do. Okay. If, if the patient wants something that is outrageous, they'll eventually get it done.
There's always somebody who will do it. Even remember Michael Jackson was able to find a doctor to put him to sleep at night and ultimately put him to sleep permanently. But you don't have to be that. You don't have to be Michael Jackson's doctor. You, you, you just do good work., you'll have a good practice.
Don't feel compelled to have to do outrageous things just to, just to keep the lights on. Most people are reasonable. I, I know sometimes it's hard to believe that, but most people are reasonable and want reasonable things. And if somebody's pushing the envelope to get you to do things that you're not comfortable, things that you think are not within the standard of care, just say no.
Because if you, if you do say yes, sooner or later, you're going to get burned. I, I, is it b d, d? I don't know, but I know it's not something that I know that most practitioners should stay away from. Let's just talk about, you know you know, putting in breast implants that are ginormous. Okay. It's possible that there will never be a complication associated with that, but it's just physics.
You're putting in a, a mass under the skin or under the muscle. And if the skin or muscle has to stretch, Beyond what it's capable of doing, and it outstrips its blood supply. I can tell you with a hundred percent certainty what's going to happen, that the skin is going to slough off, the implant will be exposed and it's going to get infected, and then the implants are going to need to be removed.
Now, they may not have liked their breasts beforehand, but I can assure you they're not going to like having a giant gaping hole in their breast without any mass in it. I think to, to me, that's a worse outcome. But all you can do is what you can do. You can try and persuade them based on the best evidence and your judgment.
And if you say no, maybe they'll go somewhere to say yes. But I, I, I know that you can't beat physics a hundred percent of the time. That much I'm confident of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what about the patients who schedule surgery, put down the deposit, then change their minds, cancel the surgery. Now they want their deposit back.
The date can't be filled, or they're scrambling to try to fill that date. Who I realize that's the patient's problem, you know, they caused that. However, what's the best way to handle that? Because of this online situation. You know, they'll, they'll be online saying, I can't get my money back. The guy stole my money.
How do you handle that when a patient reneges on what they've⦠How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: This is a challenge, and I have changed my opinion on this over time. If you had asked me 15 years ago, I would say a deal is a deal. You basically stuck your deposit down. That's. I scheduled you for surgery. I wasn't guaranteeing you an operation.
I was guaranteeing you a slot on the schedule, and I honored my end of the bargain. I'm keeping the money. So, that was Jeff Segal me speaking 15 years ago. I've changed my mind. I've changed my mind over time because here's what I think happens. I think if you're dealing with a significant sum of money here, you're putting the patient in a bind.
The bind being that. Are being forced to choose between Forfeit Inc. A large amount of money. Let's say it's $10,000 just to make this a round number or have a procedure. They don't want to have, have a procedure. They don't, an elective procedure they don't want to have. And what I've seen over time is that if you push them into that situation, They'll ultimately have the procedure.
They're not going to forfeit the money, but that's when the fireworks begin. They'll have the procedure. You will have done what you, what you, you know what you said you would do. You honored your end of the bargain. Then they're going to. Tell you how horrible you did the job. They don't believe it, but they're going to tell you how horrible a job was and they're going to demand their money back.
They're going to demand their money back or slam you on the internet. So, as unsavory as it is to just swallow hard and let them go, I would probably most of the time give them their money back. Now, I think it depends on the situation. If it's, if the patient has a good reason for. For canceling the procedure and if they gave you adequate advanced notice and you could potentially fill the slot.
I'm saying just do the, be good, be a nice person and give it back, particularly if you can fill the slot. Okay. Because really you haven't been injured, you haven't been harmed, and you're just trying to be nice and do the right thing. If they have a medical event or a life event that took. And it looks like they really do want the surgery down the road.
Just ask them gently, you know, would you like to postpone this at no charge? And we'll do this when the dust is settled. You know, it sounds like you're going through a lot of life stressors right now. This is an entirely elective procedure. You don't have to have it done. But if you think you want to have it done, we'll just go ahead and, you know, keep your funds you know, stored away and we'll, you know, we won't raise our rate for you because typically we will.
Raise rates, you know, twice a year, once a year, and we'll honor our end of the bargain and flesh that out. But if they basically just say, look, it's the day before the surgery I'm canceling. Do I have a reason? No, I have no reason. I just don't want it. What don't you understand about that? And that's a nasty individual.
Okay. And do you really want that as your patient? I mean, I, I think you're probably better off not operating on that individual and just flipping it around and. Giving them the cash back. I mean, to me, deposits are mostly there to get people to commit to a date and it serves its purpose. It gets people, it puts something on a calendar.
So, when I say I'm going to, I plan on going to Europe, to me that's a wish. It, it has no substance whatsoever. Once I stick that on the calendar, that baby's real, I'm going, I know, I'm going ticket. Yeah. Once you buy an airline ticket, it's real. Now, you know, if I, I can change my mind and I can cancel the flight as, as I just did for my wife the other day.
So, now she's got x number of months to go ahead and use those dollars for something else. But I mean, over time we've hotels and airlines have kind of figured out how to find that nice balance between the two, at least holistically. You may get screwed on a particular patient, but. In aggregate, I think you'll be better off by adopting that philosophy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, here's another thing that can go sideways. You've had your surgery and now you as a patient, you get this bill and it's for another thousand dollars for or, and anesthesia because the doctor took longer than expected. I personally, Thought, why is that my problem? Like, I'm the patient, he's the expert.
Why am I paying for him to take longer than he said he was going to? Do you have a comment on that? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah. I don't disagree with that. With your interpretation of that, I mean, look, in the elective space people are looking for. One shop pricing, they're not looking for surprises. If it's an insurance world, it's not really your money.
I mean, let Blue Cross manage that, not my problem. And once you've hit your deductible, it's just break out the champagne, all of everything done, you know? But I mean, if, if indeed there's going to be extra fees related to taking more time, Then the rational argument is, well, do I get money back if the surgeon was fast, if the surgeon was faster and only took half as much time, because I was simple, do I get a refund?
And we know the answer to that. The answer is that a big no. So, if I, I think the proper way to do it is to try and work with facilities and other professionals who are willing to accept fixed. With the understanding is that you are already arbitraging this, you have more knowledge than the patient and you're in aggregate.
You're going to come out ahead. Mm-hmm., if you basically say, I'm going to accept the risk of the case going longer, I'm just going to eat it. But you know in your heart of hearts that you're benefiting by the case going. If you could stuff in more cases good for you, you, you've actually benefit. So, I, I think barring extremely unusual circumstances, you're probably better off eliminating surprises to patients.
Nobody likes a surprise. I know. I don't like a surprise, you know, when I get a letter from the I r s, if it doesn't have a check in there for me, I'm, I'm not happy. That's an un, that's an ugly surprise. And even if I do get a check and I'm not expecting it, that's also an ugly surprise because if you cash that check, You're going to get hosed a year from now.
So, my, my larger point is try to eliminate surprises for those in the cash pay business and you'll eliminate future headaches for yourself. Oh, and let me tell you another thing. Avoid billing patients for $24 and, and 32 cents. You know, it just pisses people off Now. Particularly if they're not expecting it.
I've seen people sent to collections for under $25. I don't get that. I don't get it because if the patient is unhappy or suffered a complication and they, they just ate it and they learn to live with it, that's the, that's the one thing that rubs salt in their wound. It's, it's a, it's an unforced error.
You don't need to do it. If you've got a $24 bill with a hangover, write it. Just write it off.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Here's the next surprise that comes up. The patient has their procedure. They're not happy with their result. The doctor agrees and says Iβll; I'll do a tweak in the office if possible. Mm-hmm., if he can't, he says, I'll, we'll go back to surgery, but you're paying the OR and anesthesia and I, I will forfeit my feet again.
The patient says, why am I paying? It's, you know, you are the expert, you did it. You can see there's a problem. And I know that's murky because sometimes the doctor can't see there's a problem. But oftentimes there really is. I mean, he did he, he does need some kind of revision to be made. How, how tricky is that?
Or is it more black and white than it seems? Because I, as me, as a patient, if I see something's wrong, I mean, but I'm reasonable too. What if it's a reason? Revision? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Yeah. So, the answer, I'm going to give you a lawyerly answer. Okay? It depends. Every, every doctor is different. Every patient is different.
Right? Here, I would say if you're going to do a revision procedure where you waive your professional fee, then. You do want to spell out in advance who is responsible for anesthesia and the facility. Okay. And try that. That's a trial balloon. See how it goes. If the patient thinks that's reasonable, they'll sign off on it.
Get them to sign off on it. Get them to say, here's the deal. The deal is this. And most of the time they'll say yes, but not always. Then you got to recognize who is that individual that is going to need something more just to solve their problem. Do. Would I roll over? I probably, I might, I might. I'm actually thinking about myself at that point.
I'm thinking about do I want to go to World War III over a modest amount? And. Or do I, will I eat some of that fee even partly because I already received a large amount of money from them in the first place. Now is it as much? No. But is this really going to change my financial statement at the end of the year?
No, it's really not. And if I'm already psychically invested in this particular case, and it's starting to raise my blood pressure at this stage of my life, I'm going to opt to decrease my blood pressure. It's not going to bother me One. But that's me. I, again, if you had asked me 20 years ago, I would've given you a completely different answer.
I would've gone to war.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The, the reason patients will go online, typically, I'll just say in general because I talk to them all the time, is because nobody fixed their problem. They had a problem, nobody heard them or listened to them or did anything about it. How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Repeat what you just said. That's the most important point of this conversation.
They did not feel listened to. They didn't feel listened to. Listen to them. If you listen to them, they'll give you the answer still. Sir William Osler said, the patient will deliver the diagnosis to you, and here it's the same thing. It's a communication issue. If you stop talking for a moment and you start listening, they'll tell you their perception of what they believe the problem is, then you've got a question, can you solve their problems?
In my estimation, Once you've listened to them, you've already, you've, you're 90% of the way there to solving their problem. You may have to go a little bit more and some problems cannot be solved. I, I don't, I agree. Not every problem can be solved, but where else do you get 90% success rate? I think that's pretty good that those are pretty good odds.
Catherine Maley, MBA: When you do know it's not your best work and the patient knows that too, like everyone knows that but you don't want to do it again. You're, you're kind of done with it. What is the easiest way to detangle? I personally, I like the refund idea, the one with, and you agree not to disparage me? Yeah. In any way, shape, or form.
Is that still the best way to handle that? Or what is your approach? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Couple ways to do that. That to me is tried and true, meaning that patients unhappy. It may not be your best work. It could have been the patient, you know, biology. Biology, and it is what it is. But being open to the idea in the cash pay field of giving the patient their money back.
You give, you, get, you give, you get. So, what do you want from the patient? I want a release. I want two things. No legal mischief, no online, mechi. 99% of the time, they think that's a pretty good deal. And they'll say yes, and you become a beneficiary of that too. And the reason I say you become a beneficiary if you're seeing a patient 12 times post-op and you see the name on the schedule and your sphincter tightens up because of your nose coming in during the day.
That eats into your longevity, you're going to live a few minutes less the more, more of those experiences that you have. So, in, in a sense, you're paying for longevity and we, I mean, to me, that's the cheapest way to live longer and live well longer. So, yes, you give, you get, it's got to be a nice crisp release.
And a good release is typically five pages long and, and we, we have those available. Something you can also. If you could potentially have the patient seen by a colleague of yours that you trust. If you think the patient is not malignant and they're a reasonable human being, but you believe, or both of you believe that the trust that is necessary in a good doctor-patient relationship is gone, you can offer to say, look, I know that our relationship.
As good as it could or should be. But I'm open to sending you to somebody that I trust and I'm hoping you'll trust him or her too. And I, I can get you on their schedule, you know, to be seen as s a P. That often also helped. Now, they may say, any friend of yours is an enemy of mine, and they don't want to see that person.
But by and large, you. You're coming up with potential solutions, you're solving a problem here. Can always fall back and giving the money back. But sometimes if you can kind of keep it in the fold with people that you know and trust every, you become a beneficiary of that, and hopefully it solves their problem and they're happy to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what about arbitration? Because I think egos get involved and it gets overblown and a third party that could smooth things out makes sense to me. When do you, how does all that work? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: The arbitration? Okay. So, there are a couple ways to think about this. One is, I'll call it informal mediation and then arbitration.
Let me explain the difference. So, sometimes the love is lost that the doctor and patient really do not want to talk to each other any longer. They don't like each other. It's a bad marriage and they need to divorce, but they need to separate amicably. So, sometimes hiring an attorney like me, because I will do this, I will reach out to the patient.
I'm not formally mediating. I do represent the doctor, and I do tell them that, but I'm a person who will actually listened and validate what is obvious. I mean, if a patient had an infection and they had an unexpected complication, I'll just acknowledge the obvious they're unhappy with how this turned out.
Why would, why wouldn't, why would they be happy with that? I mean, it makes no sense to, to perceive otherwise, and hopefully we can negotiate a detant a way out. Perhaps how to give the patient summer all of their money back. Or we even had it where the doctor will donate to a charity so, that something good comes out of this instead.
So, there are a thousand ways to come to an amicable resolution. So, that's that one bucket. The other bucket, arbitration is more formal. Arbitration is an alternative to court. Arbitration is alternative to court. So, why do I like arbitration? A court is, so, what is arbitration? Arbitration is. The sides agree to resolve their dispute informally in a private setting, typically with a retired judge, and it'll be private and binding.
It'll be private and binding. So, why do I like that? Well, to resolve a case in the normal system in a court, it's public. Everybody can see it. They can read everything. And when you're dealing with an aesthetic case, I mean everybody benefits by this being private, at least I think they do. It's faster, typically because it's less formal, typically costs less, not always, but typically it's less expensive to go through.
And it's binding, meaning that you can't appeal it. So, when the decisions in the decision's in with court, you never know when it ends because you can certainly appeal it and there could be no end to this stuff, at least, you know, no conceivable and to the process. So, I'm a big fan of arbitration and while I, it clearly benefits the physician, the doctor, the provider.
I also think it benefits the patient. I think everybody benefits from this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's say the patient wants to, let's just talk about reviews, because reviews are going to be the being of every plastic surgeon's existence. And I, I feel for them because nowhere else on the planet can you complain about somebody with no recourse at all.
And the doctor. You haven't? I don't know. It's just, it's so, unfair. Because most of the time the surgeon is not, their intent is fine. They have no ill intent. And you're getting bashed online for things you can't fix. You can't get it down. You can't. Although just recently on the West coast there's a federal lawsuit against a surgeon who was filling around with the reviews.
And I hear this a. Either they're having their staff write good reviews or bad reviews for the competitors, or they're paying right the reviews for all unnecessary⦠How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Here's the deal. Here's how I would do it. Look, if you're a high performing practice doing great work, there are ways to get honest reviews and they're mostly going to be positive from your patients.
But don't filter reviews. It's called review getting. Have as many patients as you're possible, participate in the process, have it so, that it's done at the point of service. I'm making a plug. Our organization does this stuff with the merit. We're not the only one that does it. But aggregating reviews from your patients, not filtering them, not getting them, you will be perceived for the most part, for what you are as long as you get them up there.
You will get an occasional negative review. It's inevitable everybody gets it. As I told you earlier, having an occasional negative review is actually better than no negative reviews as much as you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I tell doctors this all the time. I say your three hundred and thirty-six five-star reviews. Is so, inauthentic.
I wouldn't trust that at all. How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: So, plus, who's going to read 336 reviews? People read 10, 15 reviews. They may ask to read the lowest one. Great, get to the lowest one, and then see if there's a HIPAA compliant response. Did the doctor or the provider take the high ground? Did they try to solve a problem? Do they look to be reasonable?
Why the patient is trying to identify if they become the complainer, will their problem be solved? And that's all they're looking for. They're looking for insurance or reassurance and typically it's, you can provide it, you can solve that problem.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well a lot of times too because we patients, we love to look at the one-star review and see what happened.
And a lot of times that one star is so, chaotic you can tell it's not a balanced. Person who's writing that review. So, that's handy. But otherwise, if the reviews are just, he made me wait forever like, I hope that's your worst review. Like, he was so, busy. He, you know, I got two minutes with him.
Like, that's a, that's still a really good review. How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: It is because how does it get positioned? So, if he made me wait, it means, look, I spent as much time as needed with a particular patient and after the patient before. Had a crisis or had additional questions. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I gave them extra time, just like I'll give to you.
If you become that patient, you turn a negative into a positive. If You know, if they say you only spent 10 minutes or not enough time, you go the, the, the, the subtext is that you're so, many people want you, you're in demand. The public must know how great you are. So, not all of these are really bad. I think the things that are manageable, if there are money issues, you just.
Put down a statement, which is our patients sign off on the expected amount they will pay in advance. And if there's if there's a disagreement, theyβd they need to do little more than come to our office and we'll fix it. I mean, it's, it's the type of thing. If it's in writing, you're just honoring what's in writing.
It is what it is. I think if they're just unhappy, and I said, Segal's a butcher. Yeah. There's only so, much you can do with that, but. You know, if the patient, for example, had an infection you turn a negative into a positive, you say something to the effect of the infection rate for this particular procedure is, 2%.
In our practice it's 1%, so, it's less than the national average. However, patients are not statistics. A patient either experiences an infection or doesn't, a hundred percent or 0%, but regardless, we'll stand by our patients and try and fix them until they're satisfied, something like that. And so, what have you done with that?
You're basically. Acknowledging the obvious that infections do happen, that in your practice it's lower than the national average. And number three, you'll do your best to try and make it right. That's per that's a great answer, by the way. And by the way, There's no violation of HIPAA in the way I just described it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. You know the big ones that end up usually on TV or something, it's when the doctor didn't respond they told them they'll be fine. We'll they'll be fine. Just get some rest and days go by and then it becomes a very big issue. So, a lot of this can be prevented, but what's the, what's the most frivolous and the least frivolous?
Do you have any like, like extreme example? How does this tie in with reputation management?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: Oh my God, for the most frivolous, there's so, much attention to that. My, here's my favorite case with the frivolous lawsuit, and it's not an aesthetic case. Okay. But hopefully you'll bear with me. So, a. I believe in this case it was a urologist and a small town performed a vasectomy on a particular patient.
And a year later, the patient's wife became pregnant. Okay? A year later, the patient's wife became pregnant. The male comes back and is livid, is saying that the vasectomy didn't work. Now, by the way, the postoperative sperm count was zero, and in rare cases it does happen where the, the vast deference, which is tied off and cut.
Come back together. It, it does happen. But that's not what happened here. What happened here is that they lived in a small town and everybody knew that the patient's wife who got pregnant had a lover on the side. So, this was a lawsuit, and until they were able to get a paternity test to demonstrate it wasn't his child.
This was a, this was a lawsuit and I would argue a frivolous lawsuit. So, that's one of my favorite cases. I, I typically ask the audience if they have a hypothesis as to how this might have happened. You know, when the. Patient's wife became pregnant after he had a vasectomy. Is there a hypothesis as to how this could potentially have happened?
I can't believe she let it go that far. Oh, I know. and it was a small town and basically the doctor said to everybody in the town who knew she was seeing, you know, there was no mystery here. And we, but they, I guess the patient, the husband was the last to know here in terms of. Least frivolous cases. Look, if a patient has a complication, that's an unexpected outcome for them.
And to them, that's a big deal. I think one thing to pay attention to is this, that much of the aesthetic world is cash pay. And if you've got a Blue Cross policy, they exclude cosmetic procedures. So, what happens if the patient ends up getting a local infection? What if the patient gets a local hematoma?
It depends. Blue Cross may not pick up the tab for that. So, if the patient has an urgent problem goes to the er, they may or may not pick up a tab. I will tell you we had one client. I would say this wasn't pretty decent outcome. The patient was operated on, I think in Southern California and then went up to Washington State and developed post-op day number three, four, developed a hematoma, breast hematoma.
And so, the doctor says, look, just go to the er, just get it taken care of. She goes to the ER, phone call, doctor comes in, finds a hematoma, removes it done under general anesthesia. Blue Cross would not pay for it. They basically said, this is a complication of a procedure that we don't. We're not covering it.
But interestingly enough, this the anesthesiologist or the surgeon did a pregnancy test on the patient just to dot all their eyes and cross the T's and to everybody's shock, it was positive. So, the patient was pregnant I guess newly pregnant at the time she was going to be put to sleep. So, the argument that we made was.
Because they wouldn't pay the anesthesia bill. So, the argument was that, well, look, they weren't just taking care of mom, they were taking care of the baby. Anesthesiologists were taking care of the embryo or the fetus, and they accepted that appeal. So, they, they bought it, meaning that there are ways to do it.
And in addition, if the patient has a systemic illness like sepsis or a pneumothorax, Something that's potentially life-threatening. Typically, on appeal, they will pay for it. But be careful. If somebody has just a local infection and they are sent to the ER and now the I C U and they've got tens of thousands of dollars, this could be a potential challenge.
So, I, I tell people, look, if people are spending their last. On a particular procedure and they truly don't have the resources to weather a potential storm, just be careful because they're going to be looking you to make that payment. You know, if they can't, otherwise they'll have to file for bankruptcy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Well, we're going to wrap it up. I don't know how you're a lawyer. I was going to be a lawyer for about a minute and I realized how negative it all is. Like you have to live in that mindset of what could go wrong. And I didn't. So, I went into marketing instead. I thought that was a lot more positive and fun.
But good, you know, you're probably doing God's work there. So, good for you.
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: I try to maintain a sunny disposition. So, my, my feeling broadly is that I'm here to solve a problem. Not to say no. Good for you. I typically say my feeling is ye, so, I, I have two ways of saying something. I could say no because, or yes.
If no, because, or yes. If I try to say yes, if more often than not.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you though. Good mindset. So, how can others get ahold of you if they do have a little issue and they'd like your 2 cents out?
Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD: I'll give you my email address, so, it's jsegal@medicaljustice.com and my office phone number is (336) 691-1286, and you can just look us up. at medicaljustice.com. It's one-word medicaljustice.com. We've been at this now for over two decades. Every time I think we've seen it all, I'm proven wrong, but we have worked with over 11,000 practices across the country over two decades, and lots of problems to solve.
Lots of conflicts, but the good news is most of the time things go smooth.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's all. That's a lot of problems to solve there. 11,000. Holy cow. But thank you so, much. I appreciate your time, and I will see you at a conference coming up soon, I'm sure. And everybody, thanks for joining us. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and share this with your staff and colleagues and anyone else who's interested in the frivolous lawsuits because they're going to happen.
They're just going to happen, period.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on reputation management.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD, you can reach out to his website at, www.ByrdAdatto.com.
A big thanks to Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD for sharing his tips on reputation management.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βReputation Management β with Jeffrey J. Segal, MD, JD".
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#reputationmanagement #manageyourreputation #plasticsurgeonreputation
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to think your way to success.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Think Your Way to Success".
Every single thing ever invented began as a thoughtβ¦
- Caves became houses
- Horse-drawn carriages became cars
- Media became the Internet and on and on
And, as an aside, whatβs really trippy is the ideas for those things and others, like the iPhone, kindle, and social media were always there, but nobody thought them up yet.
Look at whatβs happened to the aesthetic industryβ¦.several different neurotoxins have been introduced, lots of different fillers and the technical advancements keep on coming!
It all starts with a thought so for this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about why thinking is an overlooked skill, why itβs important and I give you strategies how to think constructively.
I βthinkβ you will get a lot out of this ;-)
P.S. If you know itβs time to invest in you, your practice, and your future, please check this out:
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Think Your Way to Success Catherine Maley, MBA: Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice. From author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice, business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA.
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing, and how to think your way to success.
Plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are sayingβ, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits; as well as coach on how to think your way to success.
Today's podcast episode is called βThink Your Way to Successβ. So, while consulting with plastic surgeons since year 2000 and interviewing them on my Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I have found the most successful think differently.
And the good news is it can be learned. So good thinking is a skill worth practicing. It can generate revenue. Solve problems and create opportunities. It really can change your life. However, it's different thinking than the kind you did to become a surgeon. Your training was based on science and specific techniques taught by others before you.
Now, this structured thinking was crucial to you becoming a great surgeon, but not so helpful. When trying to become a successful business person. So, you need to think differently when you run a practice, lead a team, manage the business, and compete in a crowded marketplace. But have you ever heard the saying; thinking is hard work if you want to think your way to success.
That's why so few do it, So when you take the time to become a better thinker, you are investing in yourself. So, I'm going to give you 11 strategies to help you become a much better think. Here's number one, feed your mind with good stuff. So good ideas don't typically just happen. You search for them to get the mind juices flowing so you find good ideas by reading books, reviewing trade magazines, listening to podcasts like this one, and spending time with other good thinkers to expose yourself to thoughts you haven't thought before, but ideas come and go quickly. So, you want to jot them down immediately in order to think your way to success. Keep paper in pen handy, or add ideas that come up to your iPhone notes.
Now, I personally get lots of ideas when I'm walking my dog and listening to podcasts. So, I text them to myself and then I transfer them to my file of ideas that I refer to.
Now, here's number two on how to think your way to success. Schedule it. Life will keep you focused on the busyness of your day, so there's no time to stop and think unless you make the time. So, block the time on your calendar just like you do for new patient consultations. That's how important this is. This can be. One hour per week, one day per month, or a couple of days per year.
Grab a pen and paper, find a quiet place with no distractions, and then ask yourself really good questions to get the ideas flowing. For example, you could ask, how can I increase my revenues without working harder? Or how can I enjoy managing staff and building a more productive culture? Or what skills could or should I learn to help me grow my practice?
Now here's number three on how to think your way to success. Find your thinking place. Everyone is different. So, notice where you are and what you're doing when the best ideas come to you. It can be in the shower, the car, the park, while you're jogging or flying or cooking or falling asleep or whatever. Now just go to these thinking places more often, and your mind will condition itself to think of more ideas more often.
It's that simple.
Now, here's number 4 on how to think your way to success. Journal for more clarity. If you like me, find it challenging to sit quietly and wait for thoughts to come to you. Here's a strategy I've used for years, so I have a folder on my desktop called notes and they're labeled by each year. Now I ask myself a question. I set the timer for 10 or 20 minutes, and then I just type, and frankly, I type faster than I hand write, so this works better for me.
So, at first, I'm just kind of typing and babbling, but then my brain starts to slow down and focus and it starts opening up, and the babble turns into thoughts. And some of those thoughts turn into an idea. Now most just clear my mind, so I feel better getting certain thoughts off. But I've gotten some of my best ideas that have grown legs and made me money.
So, you might want to give this a try to think your way to success.
Now here's number five on how to think your way to success. Share if your idea affects anyone else. Think it through before sharing. So, ask yourself., if you believe it has merit and you have confidence in it, that it could make a difference. If so, present it to others to get their insights and feedback.
Sometimes though, when said aloud and discussed, you realize it's not that great of an idea after all. But other times, the feedback you get back grows the idea to something worth pursuing and getting excited about to help you think your way to success.
Here's number six on how to think your way to success: Take action immediately. A thought is just a thought until it's executed to think your way to success.
So, ideas come and go on how to think your way to success. So, if you have a good one, immediately act on it to keep it alive. For example, you think of a good idea from pondering the questions above, and that is to hire a patient liaison whose primary responsibility is to follow up on the leads coming in, so you take the next step. And let's say that is to have your office manager write and place an ad for this patient liaison.
Now, if you need help with that, like how to execute it, you can get all those details about how to hire from visiting www.cosmeticpracticevault.com. Now, in the vault, I lay out exactly how you find the right person, how you train and motivate them, and then how you hold them accountable. Just saying.
Now here's number 7 on how to think your way to success
Thinking is a learned skill. Becoming a good thinker is a discipline that you can get really good at By practicing. Just open your mind, be curious, ask why, and how. A whole lot more often, such as, why do we do this task? Or how could we do it better? Or could we do something else instead that is faster, cheaper, easier, or more.
Now here's number eight on how to think your way to success: Think big picture.
It's so easy to get caught up in the minute details versus the overall bigger picture when thinking your way to success. An example would be you reminding your staff regularly that customer service. Is more important than double booking and making patients wait. Instead, you figure out how to avoid no-shows in the first place so you don't have to double book.
For example, you can charge a consult fee or at least reserve their time with a credit card while when they're booking. Um, and you can even text multiple appointment reminders and so on. Get a lot more creative about how to. Good customer service rather than the opposite.
Now, here's number nine on how to think your way to success: Always be learning good thinking, in order to think your way to success.
Surgeons stay open to learning and growing for a lifetime. Even though they spent many years learning to be a surgeon, they realize there's more to it than that. They now have to learn to be a good leader, manager, and marketer to stay.
Now, here's number 10 on how to think your way to success. Listen to the experts. You can get a Reader's Digest shortcut education just by listening to others who have been there and done that.
The specialized experts have already done the heavy thinking on a certain topic, so you don't have to, which helps you think your way to success. For example, you can spend 40 hours on the weekends learning the latest marketing hacks, or you can pay an expert in plastic surgeon marketing to customize a proven marketing plan for you. So, for example, if your time is worth at least a thousand dollars an hour, which it is, and the consultant charges 10 grand, that's a savings of 30 grand and you'll have an actionable plan to execute.
Doesn't that make more sense to think your way to success?
And the last one is, number 11 on how to think your way to success: Think big.
This is different than thinking big picture to think your way to success. This is more like 10 times in your efforts and results To make that happen, you would have to think. How could you do that? It will expand your mind and your thinking. So, for example, if you currently bring in 1 million a year, thinking big has you asking yourself, how could I bring in 10 million instead?
Now, whenever you ask your brain a question, it has to give you back an answer, which is key on learning to think your way to success. So, listen and take notes when the ideas come, and some of those ideas will be something like, raise your prices or bring on more service providers who have big following. Or train other surgeons on your innovative techniques, and that's just to name a few examples on how to think your way to success.
If you sit still long enough, the answers are within and they will come to you. So, to wrap this up, I wanted to leave you with a few quotes to bring the point home. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, everything begins with a thought. John Locke said, what we think determines who we are, who we are determines what.
James Allen said, our thoughts determine our destiny. Our destiny determines our legacy. Now, my own advice that I learned from Wayne Dyer, the spiritual guru, is if you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change. Gosh, that is so true. So that wraps it up for me. If you haven't already, would you please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and then of course check out www.cosmeticpracticevault.com.
It's got everything you need to know about the business and marketing of running a very specific successful plastic surgery practice.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to think your way to success.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βThink Your Way to Success".
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#thinkyourwaytosuccess #successfulthinking #successfulplasticsurgeons
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and blending plastic surgery with wellness.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Blending Plastic Surgery with Wellness β with Emily Hartmann, MD".
The healthier your patients are, both physically and mentally, the better their outcomes and the less grief you have to deal with.
So, you can either hope your patients are fit or you can proactively help them get to sound body and mind, so they have a smooth journey before, during and after surgery.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz episode is an interview I did with Dr. Emily Hartmann, a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Chico, CA, where she was born and raised.
She takes the sound mind and body philosophy to a new level. After suffering from her own health issues trying to juggle being a wife, mother, surgeon and business owner, she needed a new approach for herself and her patients.
Hereβs what we talked about:
- The downside of tackling medical school, marriage and babies all at once
- How the COVID lock down helped her prioritize
- How her approach to addressing ALL of her patientβs mind, body and wellness issues has grown her practice kingdom quickly through word of mouth.
Visit Dr. Hartmann's Website P.S. If you want to attract more cosmetic patients, check out my latest resource to help:
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Blending Plastic Surgery with Wellness β with Emily Hartmann, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and Dr. Hartmannβs wellness package with surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now I have a very interesting guest today who has made a success of blending plastic surgery with wellness.
It's Dr. Emily Hartmann. She's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Chico, California, where sheβs been blending plastic surgery with wellness. So, I'm in Sausalito. She's probably two hours away from me. So, she was born and raised there, which is probably how she founded because I don't know where Chico is. And she's owner of Beauty Eternal Surgical Practice, as well as, Beauty Eternal Medical Spa, and also, the Medical Director of the Eternal Wellness Spa, offering holistic services to support the mind, body, and soul, and thus, blending plastic surgery with wellness.
Now, Dr. Hartmann is a graduate of Georgetown University's School of Medicine. She did her residency at the University of Wisconsin Madison and her aesthetic surgical fellowship at an ASAPS credentialed University of California Keck School of Medicine. And she practiced in Marina Delray and Beverly Hills.
So, she has several publications under her belt and summer Along the way, she found time to get married and have three kids. Yikes. So, Dr. Hartmann, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Emily Hartmann, MD: Thank you So, much. It's an honor to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks So, much for coming. So, tell me this quick journey. I like to hear the journey between fellowship and solo practice. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Was it a jig jag or did you go straight to it?
Emily Hartmann, MD: I went straight to it. I knew I had my sight set on coming home because I, my kids were young and I just wanted to be closer to family and I love the idea of serving my community once I realized I wanted to do more aesthetic surgery and breast reconstruction.
So, it just really. I bee lined over here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you have to start from scratch? Did you buy a building? Did you rent a space? How'd that happen? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: So, I found a partner and a guy in town who was in private practice, solo practice, and he was incredible in terms of letting me come in just 50 50. Kind of hung a shingle with him as we expanded to new buildings and we opened an, an operating room a quad, a s f, and Medicare approved operating room as well as a med spa.
So, he was very, Open with me and, and was able to give me a platform to spring from very quickly once I was in practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is he a plastic surgeon? Yes. Yes. So, when you two came together, what was the agreement was, were you his associate, were you partners? Were you Completely two different? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: We were partners 50 50.
Oh. And yeah, it was pretty incredible. So, I just had, he had the, the, the worth of what he already owned. And So, I just bought in 50 50 with what I brought with me, and then we built from there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And was like, was the goal to have him and you come in or like, what, what was up, what was his motivation for adding another surgeon, especially somebody young with not, without a following?
What was the benefit to. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well probably his retirement plan that I would slowly kind of buy him out and he would have an exit strategy. So, I, you know, he was a, he's a very a very kindhearted person, just enjoys having camaraderie around him. And I think that was part of it too. We just kind of β
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's unusual, right?
Yeah. I mean, had you known about him or had he known about you? Like, did he also, grow up in a community and like what was your, what were you bonding over? It's weird, right? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, I think we bonded over plastic surgery mostly, and that I wanted to be in Chico. So., I woke up in the middle of the night and thought, oh my gosh, I need to look at Chico as options.
Maybe I want to work in Chico. So, I started calling around So, that there were five plastic surgeons in town and he was just So, open and kind. And., we'd had some good conversations back and forth, and then it just went from there. He had a great business manager who then contacted me when I was in fellowship and she, she came down interviewed cause I was working at, with Grant Stevens at the time.
Wow. And she toured the practice and I just said, I want to, I want to do what Grant's doing. I want to build the dream and bring ev watch everything come to fruition. And so, She did it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's seriously amazing because not everyone thinks like ran Stevens. He's an anomaly for sure. So, you were hanging with these big thinkers, like he's such a big thinker.
And then you're coming back to Chico and I'm sure that them, the plastic surgeon you were going to join. I just like, did he know you had big. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: I shared them with him. Okay. And he was, he wanted me to, Just succeed in whatever it is that I, I needed to fulfill, have my own sense of fulfillment. Mm-hmm., he was very happy in his practice the way it was.
So, I just brought more elements, more energy. You know, we, we bought a cool sculpting machine almost immediately, and he was, he was excited, I think for the new experiences.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how did you enter the marketplace? Because were you just feeding off of his patient list? Was he already doing some pretty good marketing?
And then he said, oh, by the way, you know introducing, you know, how did, how did you step into the marketplace? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: So, he had been here for 12 years before I, I came along. He already had a pretty good footing though. He was predominantly a hand surgeon and a reconstructive surgeon, and, Really, I started from scratch.
He was not doing much in the way of marketing you know, outside of local magazines and such, but didn't have really a strong website or anything, so, So, that was I, I essentially was starting from scratch and building from, I just started taking, you know, call at the hospital and whatever I could do.
It was a very stressful time. Mm-hmm. Trying to, Get through my board's experience and then I had small children at the time. It was, it was a really intense, intense time. And my, the person I was in practice with he was very understanding and supportive. It was a good, it was a good relationship.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then is he still in practice now? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: He is, and we have separated. Okay. Practices. Honestly, I, I had this massive experience when Covid happened and I just, I just realized that I needed to make a dramatic shift in what I was doing, and I really was better off by myself. Mm-hmm. and he understood. We're still great friends and I, you know, operate, we still operate out of the same or.
He just, you know, has a big heart and is excited for me to fulfill my dreams, but we are definitely kind of going in different directions.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I would think if he's recon, you know, is he's doing mainly hand surgery and you're probably loving cosmetic. You're probably loving both. Like how are you balancing that?
Because if you were hanging with Grant Stevens, you, you know, he, he, he's got it all going on over there. So, how were you? Did you like cosmetic or did you think you were going to be reconstructive and then cosmetic really got ahold of you? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, So, in residency all you really see is reconstructive. And that's really what I remember.
My brain was, you know, I was going to do peripheral nerve, I did a lab year and then I just really had. I was starting to get this big realization around my fourth year of re residency that I needed more in terms of interactions with patients and also. The whole research thing didn't jive with my what my sense of purpose was.
I didn't really get that, the fulfillment that I was hoping for. And So, that started to change me. And I actually started to interview attendings around me about their lifestyle and what, you know, what kept them up at night. And it was just a, a lifestyle that I think was not for me. And then I started doing a rotation with aesthetic surgeons.
And I was started to see some really neat stuff going on, and, and they just seemed to have the, I'm just, the private practice world seemed to have So, many opportunities for me to think outside of the box that it really just pulled me in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you hadn't been thinking about that until way later, right?
Like a lot Actually that's not true. A lot of surgeons never even think about it until they're 10 years in at the hospital and they say, this cannot be the way we do this. You know, and they like, So, you, you get these revolutions whenever you get them. You know, this might be the actually a good time for us to talk about why you're on this.
So, this is how you got on my. I happened to I don't know why I, I, I just can't get enough of this industry. And So, of course I signed up for this 7:00 AM on a Saturday morning. Beautiful. The Aesthetic Society had a great webinar with the women and it's about burnout. Mm-hmm., and I just couldn't miss that because, you know, you guys are really like gosh, I mean, you're doing the, the job of a lot of people in one, So, I loved your story.
So, could you just, let's just talk about burnout for a minute. Cause nobody ever talks about it. Everyone's fine. Everyone's doing great. Everything's great, you know, and I love when people are authentic. So, j could you just go into your story a little bit of how you got to that? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Absolutely. Thank you.
Yeah. So, this. This whole process has been constant episode of rediscovering myself and when you get through residency, well, medical school, residency, fellowship, and you're just doing all the things that you feel like you need to do, and then you get into being an attending. And a young attending in a new practice, new location, I really didn't feel like I knew what I was doing.
Everything seemed to be just So, challenging and it wasn't what I imagined. I think I had all these expectations that were really unmet. It was hard for my spouse as well because he was. Thinking that everything was going to be easier after training, and then we buckle down, then, you know, everything's going to open up in this, and the, the, the, the lights will be brighter and money will fall out of the ceiling.
none of it. True. So, there was a lot of pressure on me to, to make things work. And I. Doing it. I was in survival mode. I was, you know, showing up for my kids and showing up for my patients and showing up for my family, and I just, over time showed up for myself less and less. And then I realized that I, I was starting to have some.
Some health issues and really some mental issues. I mean, I, I had started I developed an anxiety disorder in medical school, So, that was something I was already grappling with and had kind of managed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But then what does that mean, an anxiety disorder? Like what does that look like? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: It looks well, it manifested as panic attacks.
When I was studying for my shelf exams in medical school and I had to see a psychiatrist, I could, I had terrible insomnia and, and I needed heavy medication
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that, opened the door for the� How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: The route of panic attacks and anxiety to be more sort of, it creeps up every now and then. And So, I had developed methods of coping, but they weren't exactly healthy.
So, then Covid struck, and I had all this time to sit and think to myself as many people. and I started to meditate. I started to read books that were, seemed to like, kind of come to me divinely. Mm-hmm. And one of the main books I read that really had an impact on me was Mind Over Medicine by Alyssa Rankin.
She's a very prolific author. I'm not sure if you're, if you've heard of her.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm going to mention her in the notes then. Yes. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Mind over medicine. She is just fabulous. She actually lives in Marin near you. Oh yeah. She's, I'll get her on the podcast. Oh, she's amazing. So, Alyssa Rankin is an OB-GYN not practicing any longer, as she had experienced her own burnout.
And from that fallout, she developed this system of tuning into your internal wisdom. and there she has this whole methodology, and a way to prescribe yourself what you think you need. And it's beautiful. It's a beautiful way to prioritize your needs and realize that what you've been conditioned for doesn't have to be that way.
You can think outside the box, you can write your own rules. And that was very empower, empowering to me. And I realized that I wanted to create a, I wanted to create something very special for my patients and. What came to me was this idea of mindful plastic surgery and putting together my love of wellness and my love of l embodying all the other modalities that can impact patients with plastic surgery and.
Took out big pieces of paper and started drawing on the walls and became extremely directed in my vision. And that's when I decided to break ways with my partner, move o physically offices, and I not looked back.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what did you create? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: So, it's now a year and a half old as our brick and mortar has opened.
And it is a two buildings plastic surgery and a meds spa. And then across the parking lot is my wellness center where I have. A whole host of complimentary services, hypnotherapy, which we use to prepare patients for surgery. My hypnotherapist has a beautiful pre-op program that patients see him two months prior to surgery and they start to flood their system with positive affirmations.
It is the most beautiful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Can they do surgery without anesthesia? Thanks to him. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, like, like a hypno-epidural. There, there, there are, there are. We, we haven't really ventured into that yet, but there hypnotherapy is extremely powerful. Mm-hmm. People know it a lot from the hypnobirthing and how impactful that can be, where you dissociate completely.
And it's, it's pretty incredible what the mind can do. So, what, when I, when I first started putting this together, my main goal was to tackle anxiety leading up to surgery for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a big deal. I deal. Cause I'm training coordinators, you know how to get people to a Yes. And what they're forgetting is people are scared.
oh, it's So, scary. You know? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Mm-hmm., we also, carry a lot. Stress and trauma and different ways of managing it. And a lot of people just bury it deep down and then surgery comes along. And, you know, it's interesting. Patients have a tendency to, they just don't, they don't think about it in the way that it.
It's like a huge life experience. Mm-hmm. and that sense of vulnerability and lack of safety, that feeling can all of a sudden manifest all of this anxiety. Mm-hmm. and tension and fear, and we know going in to surgery when you're like that harder to manage from an anesthesia standpoint and a pain management standpoint, but then after surgery, they're tense, they're anxious, they are harder to rationalize with.
They're just, they're, they're tricky because they're con, their mind has sort of captured them and So, that we know a lot, many studies that show an. Complication rate in patients who have a higher anxiety rate prior to surgery. So, it, it's just been revolutionary. I also, do not tend to prescribe narcotics, or at least I try to avoid it.
And by doing this, I prescribe herbal supplements prior to surgery that our anti-inflammatory. And then supplements after surgery. This, this also, has completely changed the way, you know, my patients walk in, they're very clear. They've got very little bruising, very little swelling. And this is definitely stepping outside of the box for plastic surgery.
Mm-hmm., you know, we, we are trained to hold all our herbal supplements prior to surgery because Right. Who knows what's in them and it could cause bleeding and some have more compelling evidence to increase the risk of bleeding. And some, you, it's, it's largely vague. Mm-hmm. So, in searching for, Well, in my county, the issue with opioid abuse is, Through the roof.
Mm-hmm. So, I have to be extremely careful. I feel as though being a good warden to my community, I, I just don't prescribe them on the front end. And I always tell people, I will give them, if you need it, you know, you get my cell phone number and if you need it, I'll, I'll prescribe them, but I don't dole them out without real care and consideration.
In addition to that, we have reiki, which is energy healing. Reiki is a very beautiful experience that is hard to explain until you have the experience yourself. But essentially someone who is trained with reiki uses their hands on your body in certain areas and they just spend time shifting your energy, trapped energy, stuck energy, childhood energy traumas, and Realign you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll just give you my Reiki story. I, okay. I'm like Irish Catholic from Chicago, like we don't believe any of this hooey. But cause I've lived in northern California So, long, I'm, I'm a firm believer now. However, I'm in graduate school, we had to do this weekend getaway, and I have always jogged forever and I have a pulled hamstring and I've had it forever.
The girl from India, of course, knows Reiki and says, I can take care of that for you. And she doesn't touch me. She just does some weird thing gone forever. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: That wow. Crazy. Wow. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm a true believer.
Emily Hartmann, MD: Wow. That is a wonderful story. I hear, I, I hear So, much of that just in, you know, until you feel it and experience it yourself.
It's kind of hard to convince people. Yeah, it is life changing. It is. So, we have reiki, we have my nurse practitioner who's in charge of all the wellness programs, she, she actually spends three sessions with my surgical patients, getting them ready for surgery. So, she, it's amazing. She talks to them about things that I, you know, we don't have time to talk about.
Things that are important to the surgical experience, like getting your environment ready, reducing inflammation, reducing stress and, you know, breath work and breathing techniques. She's, she's just incredible. So, that is my goal in terms of optimizing patients for surgery. And we also, offer, you know, massage, lymphatic massage and facials and function similar to a day.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow. Alright, So, the way the office is set up, you have one building with the plastic surgery and the med spa. Mm-hmm., the non-surgical, the surgery is done in another building that you two are sharing. The other surgeon is sharing. How far is that from your office? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: It's about a five-to-10-minute drive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, nice.
And then the park across the parking lot is the holistic center. Yes. Right. So, alright, those are a lot of moving parts there. So, how many, how many staff is involved in all of this? Like how and, and how many are revenue generators?
Emily Hartmann, MD: You know, we have about 20 staff. Two of those are nurse injectors who function in my med spa.
They do the lasers and injectables, and they're very gifted human beings. So, those, those are my co providers. Mm-hmm. And So, yeah, we have about 20.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you jump right. You've invested in the lasers, you've got your buildings, you have your or holy cow. How's it going? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, I appreciate you saying that because it feels like we always need to be doing more, but, but I've come to a point where I want to, now that I've realized the dream mm-hmm.
I just want to spend time making it better. And I, I feel like we, we keep having people call. We, we don't have a microneedling RF device yet. We don't have this, and we don't have that. We have a lot of things, but I, I, I really want to be experts at what we deliver and I want to focus on the patient experience because when, when you get So, bogged down with all these different facets, it's easy to.
To lose sight of the purpose, you know, the main.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's not, it's not always more is better because if you had too many variables, you absolutely lose the patient experience quality part because there are too many things going on. Too many people work there, too many patients are in there. You're there for too many different things.
I personally love the idea now of more concentration on the patient experience, So, they return, refer, and review, than constantly trying to get a whole bunch of new people. Looking at all your different services and I just think that's a different kind of game to play. You can do it, it's just complicated, you know? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Right. Yes, yes. And you know, creating your own definition of successful, you're right. To me, I, I would rather have a really in-depth conversation with a patient and discover that plastic surgery really isn't for. You know, they need to go focus on, you know, managing their traumas or leaving their abusive husband.
You know, plastic surgery isn't going to make you feel better. May, it might make like, You know, in the, when you first go in and talk about it, and people think that it's like getting a haircut, it's going to suddenly make you feel lighter and better about yourself. But I have to be really careful with the tools that I have been, you know, I have developed, I, I'm acutely aware of how.
How selective I need to be and that not everyone is a good candidate, but unless you take that time, it's really easy to miss those things. So, for me, I would just much rather let those patients go mm-hmm. and pull in and focus on the ones that You know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I feel like are really need the investment at every medical conference I've gone to.
There's always that topic of I wish I had followed my intuition. I wish I knew this was going to be a problem, but I thought I could handle it. There's always the unhappy patient's story there. Do you have any tools you are using to get you to identify those red flags before you get into deep. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, My number one method is I schedule enough time with my consults that I really can talk with them about what brought them in.
And I always ask the, the difficult stuff. You know, that's, and I don't let spouses in because I just wanted to focus on the patient mm-hmm. And So, I, you know, I dig deep into understanding what brought them in. And that takes time because you have to kind of first establish trust. And So, I think that's the best way to the best way I've found to, to find those red flag patients.
Other ways are, of course, just paying attention to how they interact with your staff, and that can be a real. But it's, it's tricky. It's tricky.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What are, what are the tough questions you would ask them that would help you indicate something might be off? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, I always want to know what do they think they're going to accomplish with plastic surgery?
And I'll tell you, it's the people who don't have solid firm answers that raise my red flag. You know, people who come in and, and they just, they can't really explain what they need. They just say, I just want you to look at me and tell you what I need. Tell me what I need. And I'm like, Oh yeah. Versus the, you know, mother of 3 42 comes in as like, take off this extra skin.
And I say, yes, Mm-hmm. So, it's the non-descript kind of sad and or overly energetic, but have a hundred things that they want to do. They're just not quite as focused. And those patients
I have to really give pause.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. You know, that's interesting. You say you don't have the husband come in. I actually want the husband to come in number one because. Don't they always say at the end, every woman blames it on her husband. I have to talk to my husband about this. I can't, I can't give you an answer.
I have to talk to my husband. And I'm like, what is with this, with this husband thing? I'll put the husband our boat without telling you or asking you, So, whatever. But I then I say, okay, then let's bring the husband in because he can also, be a red flag if he's the one doing all the talking and she's just sitting.
I think that is really helpful to know because you start asking, well, why do you want to do this? And he answers for her, that's really good intel too. So, you're doing it the other way, you just, you know, don't even want the husband involved. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah. Yeah. And it depends on the situation, but when I first meet someone, I like it to just be us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a great idea. How do you somehow introduce them to the holistic side? Because it sounds like everybody is going to have a holistic slash surgical experience with you. Is that right? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: For the most part the everyone is signed up to meet with Lauren. She is. The one who spends a large amount of time with them.
And So, I know that they're going to get that introduction, but when I'm talking with them and I'm going through the process, I just introduce it as a normal part of our experience. So, I, I say we have a pre-op hypnotherapy program. It's essential for managing your anxiety and optimizing your outcomes and, and increasing.
Level of satisfaction after the surgery, and it also, reduces the sensation of pain. Everyone is like, oh, okay. And that the you know, I just, I basically just work it in like I would anything else?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And is it part of the package? Yes. Is it, it goes, it's included in the., but what about the lymphatic massage?
Because that can also, often be a little stickler because a lot of the practices just do the, the surgical procedure and then they refer out, you know, to somebody else to do the lymphatic massage. And some of these groups are charging the patients, you know, your patients several thousands of dollars. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
And how are you working that part out?
Emily Hartmann, MD: We just bundle it all in and So, it's a requirement. Obviously, I can't force them to show up for their appointments, but it is, they've paid for it, So, it is a part of their package and that way they're not paying for multiple things, but everything is sort of, is all inclusive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea. Thank you. Good for you. Because you know what you're, that's how you're differentiating yourself as well, because others aren't doing that. I'm trying to think though. Somebody like me who's type A is like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, can we just get on with this? But I also, love the head the mind stuff, you know, So, I'd probably be okay.
I, I want the hypnosis. I think that sounds fantastic. And then I love the lymphatic massage, So, maybe, I mean, have you had any resistance to it? Are the patients loving having that full package? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Man, they, they're, they're loving it. I've had some interesting resistance to it, just to kind of random reasons that they don't like massage.
One patient who has a bad experience as an adolescent and So, they don't like people touching them. And I said, oh, yes. No problem. That makes sense. But we have hypnotherapy that can help you. So, it's a, you know, you know, it's customizable, but it's generally something Yeah. That, that people are excited about.
It is So, beautiful to go from this experience because we, breast reconstruction can also, you know, use the services have this experience where you're, You know, this very emotional difficult time. And to be able to walk over to the wellness center where everyone is, is on board with your healing, everyone understands versus going to another place that's off brand and they don't know you.
You have to explain yourself. This is an a, a relationship that we are establishing with patients that carries through this. Beautiful. Oh, sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Let's go back to the staff again. 20 staff or a young surgeon is insane actually. How are you, how did you, did you study leadership and management? Did you get a killer practice manager who's handling this for you?
Like what's the secret to handling all of that? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Thank you. I'm So, glad you asked this because this is my secret weapon. My business manager is insanely good at her job. So, she has a medical business consulting, or excuse me, a medical consulting business. Mm-hmm. and called Medical Business Solutions.
And So, she and her staff do all the HR and, and hiring and firing the sticky stuff. Yeah. I, however Do not. I am. I like to be involved. I like to be a leader. I like to, to set the vision and I'm, I'm, she doesn't treat me like just a money generator. She really brings me in and she is, she actually builds me up as a leader and I lean on her quite a bit.
She, I just went to a leadership meeting for the Aesthetic Society. And So, she supports me in trying to be the best leader that I can because it doesn't come naturally to me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nobody, nobody's a born leader. It's a learned asset. Some people are more innately attuned to it, you know, it's learned. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah, but it's, it's really, it's So, rewarding Once you can have this functioning body of people who are growing and learning and, and propelling forward with the same vision and you can set back and watch people find their own zone of genius and you don't have to do everything. You can just kind of let them take the lead and, and.
It's just, it's a beautiful process. So, I've grown a lot. I've learned a lot. It was blood, sweat, and tears, but it's been wonderful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say staffing is the biggest challenge or what would be your biggest challenge? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Well, it's interesting for me personally, staffing and turnover. You know, I had the, an amazing nurse practitioner who then had to get engaged and married and be happy No.
And then move away. And So, those, those kinds of unexpected things, I'm just kidding. I'm very excited for her. But those unexpected things, those shifts are of course, challenging. You know, I've got such a strong team that we can lean on each other. So, I think the staffing stuff doesn't bother me as much as what?
What really is tough for me is to hold firm to. What I need to maintain my mental health. Hmm. That is a, I'm constantly being squeezed, and not by anyone's intention, but it's just the nature of the beast. Mm-hmm., I naturally want to show up and say yes and do all the things so, I, I'm constantly kind of reexamining where we're at and, okay, I need to re reestablish my boundaries.
I need to see the wipes of my kids' eyes in the morning. I need to kiss them goodnight. Good. You know, at night. And I have all these phys, these, you know, I do things that keep me sane and maintain my anxiety because I'm the one running this shit. So, I affirm me personally, that is the, a very big challenge that I, it takes a lot of discipline and self-awareness.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you need to learn that now for the next three decades because every surgeon I know who had developed bad habits now have to develop better habits in their fifties because their neck is killing them, their back's hurting, their E. Everything hurts and. And, and their attitude's getting bad. Like, if I have to do one more liposuction case, I'm going to kill myself, you know, it just, it starts numbing.
So, I'm So, glad you're developing good habits now. How are you finding the time to meditate? I have tried to meditate for years, and, and I know it's So, good and I, I struggle with it to sit still. I, I, if there's some, some kind of like jogging meditation, I would be better off. Or like, if I could meditate on the treadmill, I'd be like, I just like to. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Actually, there is. So, So, today I actually did a walking meditation and it was synchronized to my steps and it was a really beautiful, I'd never done a movement meditation of that. It was like a guided meditation. So, there, there are methods for people who are not sit stillers. Mm-hmm. But I still. Still, you know, running is definitely a movement meditation.
But there is something magical about sitting there still. And I, I, Lisa Rankin talks about this, that the things that are sometimes we are the most resistant to are exactly what we need. So, I mean, that's always helped me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I can do 15 minutes. I used to be able, yeah, I was doing four and now I'm up to 15, and I can do that fairly comfortably.
On the weekends I can go. 30. Whoa. But after that, I'm getting itchy. I just, because I'm really, I know what's going on in my head and I get all the messages that I'm, that I'm, I know when I'm, when I'm, when I'm open to it and when I'm not. Like I, I just, I feel like I've spent enough time with me that I, I, I understand a lot of that already.
Boy, I, it's So, important to stop, like stop and stop thinking. Stop thinking, stop. The monkey minds us. All that stuff going on. I just, you know, it's hard to do in this world today. Yep. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: It is. I was just reading Michelle Obama's book. Mm-hmm. The Light We Carry and she talks about picking up knitting during Covid because she was ordering stuff on Amazon and she thought, okay, I'll, I'll order some knitting needles.
And she taught herself to knit, but that, that she had never. Done something. Like that with her body that wasn't So, like, you know, intensely using her brain and now, and she just knits, she's knitting up a storm because it really brought her this sense of calm and peace and home sense. Mm-hmm. And I just thought, there you go.
There's a meditation.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, yeah. Yeah. I knittingβs not going to happen probably, but I, I do a lot of journaling and you know how they always say with journaling, oh, you must do, you know, pen and paper. Hand and paper. You know, you've got to hand. And I thought, no, I don't. Every time I try to do that, I resist it because my handwriting is atrocious.
Oh. And I can, I can't write as fast as I can think, but I can type like nobody. So, I type and it is So, meditative for me. I just, you know, like the thoughts of the day, you just type them out. I get it all down. I do it every morning. That is my. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Right on. That's amazing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, well then thank you very much for that conversation,
Cause as you get older too, you say, who says you have to do that? Like I, I question a lot more than I used to. I used to just be like a good soldier and I know you were too, and you're probably your worst critic and you push yourself more than anybody else pushes you. Have you gotten a handle on that and you're feeling like you have a better control over your life? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Most definitely. Most definitely. And I have the freedom to push back and to create those boundaries that I've, I've never had before. This is a really, really incredible time for me. And that's not to say that the, those like, So, it's interesting I, if you start reading. Mm. Masculine and feminine and, and things of that nature.
You know, plastic surgery was built on, the masculine medicine was built on the masculine, and there are certain ways that we, you know, that we learn that are very masculine. And So, I. Once I realized this and I started to I stopped wearing a white coat, I just started to like, kind of slowly break down some of those just automatic or auto automat automatic reflexes and.
Decide what, you know, what was best for me? It, it was a real game changer. It was a real game changer. So, we're, we're very stuck in our, our routine. Oh, what's interesting, I know what I was going to say is this idea of a morning routine and, and of this, these check boxes. And if you don't do this, you know, everything isn't going to be just perfect that day.
It's a very masculine way to approach your day. And So, I, I love that you said this because I, you know, there was a time when I was very check boxy and, oh, I'm going to have a morning routine and a meditate. It doesn't work that way. We are cyclical beings and every day is different. Every week is different, every month is different, and phases of the moon are different.
It is a really, it's a really, it's a very freeing sense to have that realization. And say, oh, okay. That's why it feels So, impossible sometimes because I don't need to do that right now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I, I love podcasts. I'm sure you do too. And I'm constantly listening to the men, like these internet marketers who just crush it every day.
And I think I have become a man. I just, you know, I have got to chill and they take cold showers. Okay? I take cold showers and it's just So, habitual. All of this. And then I think I'm kind of lost if I don't do it. And that's even worse. Because then I think really, I mean, is it, seriously, Catherine, you, you know, you're not conquering the world here.
You know, I'm just conquering my corner of the world. But. Back to you. I think you're amazing. Thank you. So, you have, I'm loving your business idea. You've got these three entities, you've got 20 staff, you've got a great group managing it for you, which absolutely, you should be the leader in the visionary and somebody else should be in the weeds.
You cannot do what you're doing and be, do the Knickknack, all that. Just not healthy now. So, tell me about the revenues though, because you have. This is a big boat to float. So, how are you keeping that steady stream of patients to cover the overhead and are you losing any sleep over that? Is one group making more than the other group or do you find that if things slowdown in surgery, it seems like the meds spa will pick it up, or the holistical, like any of that going on? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: It does seem like this really interesting yin yang happens when one is down. Things just seem to compensate and I think that's the beauty of having a diverse practice that it will now the wellness. Center is the youngest of the, of the situation that we have going on. And that is definitely still we're just, we're just So, fresh and new and the revenue stream is not as robust as it could be, but we're, you know, it's, it's getting better and better every day.
So, that one is, is sorry. It's getting So, dark where I am. Fine. That one is a. You know, we're just, I, I have, I hate to say low expectations, but it's just really starting to take off and they're doing such a beautiful job, but word of mouth in my area is So, important. So, we're, we're just chugging up the mountain.
Yeah. Year and a half in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. How important is social media to you to grow that practice? Or what marketing channels are you using to make sure everyone knows you're there? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: So, our, we still rely heavily on social media for followers and you know, people seem to. Kind of start following for a few months and then decide to make their consultation and then they'll start messaging us in social media, you know, getting gearing up for that.
And, and that still seems to be holding strong. I, I wasn't sure when we first started if social media was going to be as important as it is down in Southern California, but still it. Still a great way for people to get acquainted with who, with our philosophy. Mm-hmm.. So, that is definitely important. I, the, the largest number of new patients come from our website.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And are you doing SEO and you're keeping up with content, that kind of thing? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: So, our website is also, new in formation, and we are just starting to really make tweaks to it, to, to enhance how well it conveys our brand. But these, these things are So, much harder than I realized.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And they take longer and they cost more than you think and Yeah. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yes. But we just hired a marketing director in-house, So, she is We're really excited, excited about that So, that we can start really changing the website and making it more of our own as we had someone outside of our, outside of our company build it. So, So, that's exciting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's also, a big question. Do we bring it in-house So, we can control it? Do we outsource it and hope we can manage it? There is no right or wrong answer for that other than trust your vendor. Treat them like their staff. Communicate with them a lot and tell them what you expect. Don't make them guess.
Meet with them regularly. Tell them what you're like, what you're not liking, and don't wait until you're mad. You like, you're angry at them and they're like, what, what, what's wrong? Probably do a podcast just on outsourcing, because frankly, that's really a, a good way business model is if you don't have to do it in.
And you don't have to manage people and they can, it's just getting rid of some of this stuff. So, you can focus on the patient experience rather than the external marketing experience. It's the way to go if they're, and then they're the five is to go with it, you know? Exactly. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah, exactly. I found experience of with the, with the web designer I found it.
The person that we used was very good. It was just, it was hard to communicate with them because they had So, many other accounts that it, I felt very impersonal. So, that's the only thing I would say to it. Otherwise, I was happy to have someone outside just putting it all together with their expertise.
But then, you know, the finished product I felt really didn't convey our message, but I think that was probably a result of, Of me still not owning that message yet, because it was a couple of years ago when we started building that website. Mm-hmm. So, it's been an interesting evolution, but I, I feel as though all things settle out in time.
Everything feels like it's not happening quick enough. But in reality, 10 years down the road, I'm going to look back on this time and, and chuckle a little bit about the experiences, but I'm enjoying watching things happen in real time. And they always turn out better and different than I could have ever hoped for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love your tagline. Can you tell us what it is?
Emily Hartmann, MD: βIf it's important to you, it's important.β
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that. That's really, it came off very genuine when I, when I opened up your website. It's like, if it's important to you, it's important. And I thought, oh, she hears me. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Yeah. Thank you. I, I that's just something I always say to patients who are.
Concerned that they're not making a good decision or they feel bad about, you know, financial burden on their family and whatnot. And, and I just always bring it back to if it's important to them, that's all that matters. It's So, simple.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, far you're like a year and a half in or a couple years in.
What's your, like, what would be your advice to anybody else that's still new, you know, coming out? What, what would you do? Would you do this again in this big way? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Oh, well, you know, hindsight's always 2020, So, it's So, challenging. But I would, I would, I wish that I had learned to listen to my inner voice sooner. And I wish that I had been more observant of the lifestyles of other plastic surgeons and, and really rather than trying to copy them, learning why they do what they do, but then, Listening to myself and digesting it and figuring out what works best for me.
I didn't learn that, learn early enough, but, you know, it's what gives us the depth of understanding for other humans. So, I don't regret it either.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're learning an awful lot at the young age. You're, you really are, you're, you're way ahead of the game, as far as I'm concerned. So, tell us one thing we don't know. How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?
Emily Hartmann, MD: Oh, well, I became a black belt in Taekwondo when I was 17, and I'm, I am still practicing Taekwondo. I just went back to it two years ago and it has been such a wonderful and refreshing way to re, re find my power again and power through my body, and also, had, Be silly and make a fool of myself, Good for you.
Yeah, yeah. With people who just encourage me and want the best for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it was great. So, if you and your husband are walking down a dark alley and somebody approaches you, does your husband step back and let you handle it? Or what? How does this relate to blending plastic surgery with wellness?Emily Hartmann, MD: Yes, we do talk about that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Honestly, I go have at it. I'll hold your coat.
Yeah. Anyway, I'm going to wrap it up now. Tell us how can somebody get ahold of you who would like to hear more about you? And by the way, what's your website?
Emily Hartmann, MD: The website is www.BeautyEternalChico.com. That's c h i c o.com. and the easiest way to get ahold of me is through email. So, EmilyHartmann, make sure there are two ends at the end of that @mac.com.
That's m a c as in Macintosh.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you So, much Dr. Hartmann for being on. I really appreciate it. And everybody, if you've got any comments for Dr. Hartmann or myself, you can certainly leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com. I'd also, appreciate if you subscribe to Beauty and the Biz.
Do you have an Instagram account that they,
Emily Hartmann, MD: you want to mention? Yes. @BeautyEternalChico as well. Oh, there you go. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on Dr. Hartmann blending plastic surgery with wellness.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Hartmann, you can reach out to her website at, www.BeautyEternalChico.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Hartmann for sharing her story on how sheβs blending plastic surgery with wellness.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for βBlending plastic surgery with wellness β with Emily Hartmann, MD".
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Bloom achieved steady growth in just 3 years.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Steady Growth in Just 3 Years β with Jason Bloom, MD".
There is nothing easy about growing a new practice from scratch or even maintaining a growing practice, let alone achieving steady growth in just 3 yearsβ¦.no matter how old it is.
There are too many factors in the way of making steady growth in just 3 years:
- Uber competition, which can stifle steady growth in just 3 years
- Advanced technology, which can deflate steady growth in just 3 years
- Fickle cosmetic patients, which can hinder steady growth in just 3 years, to name a few
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is one surgeonβs story about how he opened his solo practice and grew it quickly from scratch and attained steady growth in just 3 years.
Dr. Jason Bloom, a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Bryn Mawr, PA, focuses on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, non-surgical treatments and hair restoration to help fuel the steady growth he's attained in just 3 years.
We talked about how he grew his solo practice and made steady growth in 3 years by being in the right location, hiring the right staff and taking good care of them, and how he networks to create a steady flow of referrals.
There are lots of pearls in our discussion.
Visit Dr. Bloom's Website P.S. If you havenβt already, can you please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a 5-star review so I can grow the audience? I would really appreciate it. Thank you!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Steady Growth in Just 3 Years β with Jason Bloom, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to create steady growth in just 3 years. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients, more profits, and to learn about getting steady growth in just 3 years.
Now, today's special guest is Dr. Jason Bloom, whoβs an expert at achieving steady growth in just 3 years. He's a board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, and has steady growth in just 3 years. Now, in regards to him creating steady growth in just 3 years, he focuses on facial rejuvenation, rhinoplasty, nonsurgical treatments, as well as hair restoration. Now, Dr. Bloom attended the University of Michigan Medical School and then completed his residency in Otorhinolaryngology neck surgery at the University of Pennsylvania, before embarking on attaining steady growth in just 3 years? He also, then did a fellowship program at the New York University Langone Medical Center, also before attaining steady growth in just 3 years? Now, Dr. Bloom has authored more than 40 journal articles and book chapters, and speaks at medical conferences all over the world. He continues to teach residents, sits on medical advisory boards and performs research studies as well as clinical trials.
Dr. Bloom, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Iβm excited to speak with you on how youβve created steady growth in just 3 years.
Jason Bloom, MD: Well, thanks so, much for having me. It's a pleasure to see you and to be on this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much. So, I always like to start with how, what was your journey to private practice before you started making steady growth in just 3 years? Because it's never a straight shot, is it? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean my I, I've kind of had a little bit of a roundabout way to my own private practice.
So, when I was doing my fellowship at NYU in 2009, 2010 I. Came out of my fellowship and I actually joined a dermatologist in the Philadelphia suburban area, which is ki actually where I am now. But I joined his practice and he did only non-ablative lasers, but was a very big name in the space.
And he used to joke that I did everything in the office that caused blood or smoke. So, I did all of the ablative lasers, all the injectables and all the surgery. And we are still friends. It worked well. I was with him for eight years. But what happened was after you know, I was a surgeon, facial plastic surgeon in a dermatology office, and he was a cosmetic derm.
He and never took any kind of insurance or anything like that. My surgical practice just began to get so, busy that it was hard to run facial plastics practice out of a, a derm practice just because, and even from a support standpoint. So, whether it was surgical coordinators or booking things and seeing patients and follow up, it was, they weren't equipped in their office to do that.
And so, you know, I actually found a dermatologist to come in and work for him, and we separated very amicably and I opened up my own practice strictly facial plastic and reconstructive surgery practice in the Burma area not far away. And. That was about three and a half years ago. I have since brought on some nurse injectors.
I have a junior partner who works with me. She is a facial plastic surgeon and it's been great ever since. So, that's kind of, it's onwards and upwards at this point.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Let's talk about the location you chose and how that might impact you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? It looks like you're kind of in a strip mall kind of retail area. Yeah. I, I love the thought of that, like the, what are the pros and cons of that because I pro it looks like you're on the ground floor as well.
You have your own building; you have your own big name on that center versus being in a hospital on the fifth floor. So, how did you choose that? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: You know I love having first floor access. It is so, nice. Patients walk. I mean, we have tons of parking patients walk in right from the parking lot.
They see our name, they see our sign, and yeah. And there's actually a lot of kind of, let's say a. Traffic and influence in the area. My neighbors in our kind of in our shopping area are a, a very busy salon, a very busy nail salon. And then across the straight street and aesthetic orthodontics, there's a dentistβs office.
There's a lot of kind of people who are interested in aesthetics, all kind of funneling in the same area. And so, when they, maybe they're coming in to get their hair done or their nails done and they see bloom facial plastics, they see it's, ooh, what's going on there? Not like we're accepting like walk-ins, but it does kind of like it's great in that we get that kind of cross traffic and people, it becomes kind of front of mind when they see our name on the...
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea, in terms of steady growth in just 3 years. I think you picked the right location though, and the right clientele and the right high-end neighborhood because I've watched others do it, but then they're like next to Chipotle or TJ Max or something, and it, it doesn't have the same feel to it, so, I, I love your location. I think it's great. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Do people ever come in and just walk by and say, I, I just?
Jason Bloom, MD: We, we, we see people like walking by, and also, we see our patients that are coming in for example, like PA patients who we've operated on or stuff. This, this is a very busy hair salon, very busy nail salon. And we also, work with some of these you know, with these companies and do kind of co-op marketing in terms of like the orthodontics.
We have their cards and their brochures in our office, and they're offering $500 off Invisalign. And we, and, and for example, if they send a patient for a lip lift or lip injections, then you know, they, and because they. You know, our pamphlet in their office, we give them a discount. So, any of the local businesses that are kind of in our direct area, we like to do kind of marketing things on.
I remember when some of the injectables were doing it, it was a new indication for like hand filler. And with the nail salon we, you know, any new patient that they saw that they had our brochures at the nail salon. Any patient that they referred got $50 off hand filler because they were coming in and getting their nails done.
And they say, oh, you know what? My hands are looking a little bit kind of deflated, or I can see the veins. That was a new patient they were sending us. You surely know how; how important it is to get patient referrals and how much those patients are worth. Mm-hmm., certainly doctors pay for patient leads.
This is more than, you know, I'm more than happy to give $50 off treatment to come in my office when it was sent from them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a lot cheaper than finding an internet stranger patient, to help with getting steady growth in just 3 years, that's for sure. Okay. And they're much more likely to convert. So, I, you know, I think that's a great idea. One idea that, I will tell you somebody else, we both know this facial plastic surgeon, but they they're not in your area though, but they do the tchotchkes, you know, they do the, like the lip gloss and the pens and they just hand it to all the salons and just say, here you go.
And so, in case, because a lot of times these are great alliances, they just don't work out because you have to nurture these relationships and they're busy with their own practice, your business trying to figure out yours isn't on their priority list. So, I love to come up with what else can we do where nobody else is involved, like humans aren't involved other than there's a big bowl with your name, with all of, with your name in it, you know, and they can just take free views out of it. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
So, it's a thought.
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. And, and, and, and actually we kind of encourage all of these kinds of local businesses. We see a lot of. Of their employees as well for treatments and things. And we offer them steep discounts in order to come into our practice so, that, you know, they see certainly more patients getting their hair done or their nails done, then we can, you know, handle in a day.
So, if they're sending people and they said, Hey listen, we went to Bloom facial plastic surgery and I got some toxin and some filler, and they're recommending us, that's like, that's huge. So, we offer discounts to their employees and, you know, not to send us people, but you know, If they're happy, then they will send us people.
We're not, you know, so, it's been, it's been a great kind of back and forth that we've had.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Have you ever done one of those parking lot tent events, you know, where you all get together and you all invite your own patients and then everyone, I mean, have you ever done some, it's a big deal though to, to put that together? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: We did. We did actually. We usually, So, every year when we celebrate our anniversary, which is in the, in September of our practice we do kind of get a tent. I have like a taco truck come, I have a the, the Mr. Frosty, Mr. Softy truck comes, and then we invite everyone to come out and just kind of like, get free ice cream, get some tacos, enjoy themselves.
Mm-hmm. And then also, when, when the orthodontist across the across the parking lot, who is a good friend of ours, when they moved into the space, we kind of had a welcome to the neighborhood party, same kind of idea.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, the I, when, a million years ago when I got into this, I lived in San Francisco and I was a marketing consultant and I would get plastic surgeonβs gigs at alliances.
So, they would give talks at high-end boutiques, hair salons all of that stuff. And it was, it worked great. It was a lot of work though, to coordinate the darn thing. But the point was we had a da a patient list, they had a patient list we needed to get in front of their patients. So, the doctor would pay for the marketing.
And in those days, we would send out postcards. Like they were really fun, big postcards, eye-catching. And they worked very well in today's world. I don't know, I wouldn't do that, but, but so, the surgeon it cost him maybe a thousand. Like we had refreshments and the postcard mailing, no big deal. And we got in front of all of their patients or clients, and that's how boy, that was, that worked like a charm for many years. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: That's, That's fantastic. I mean, yeah. Who would, who wouldn't love to get access to? You know, more patients get in front of them, have people see you, meet you. Yeah. That's fantastic.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, especially when they're, they're almost referred, like their credibility. We, we got rid of the trust problem because there was already so, much credibility built into it.
So, when the surgeon showed up, it didn't feel like a, a sales thing. It felt like an educational event. and everyone was so, comfortable and I just, those worked so, well that I, you could still do it in today's world, you would just have to tweak it. You know, the marketing channels are different and the trust level is so, different now.
Like you'd really, that's why I like going with who already knows somebody that you could know, that they could introduce you to. It just makes your life so, much easier when you know those patients who show up with you, like, who are you? Like who, who are you? You don't want, you don't want a do that all day.
You want the patient who says, oh my God, you are so, funny on Instagram. Or, I love your family, you know, isn't that fantastic? Like, is that what happens a lot for you? They show up saying, I feel like I know you. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Patients feel like, well, yes, because my Instagram is very unique. My Instagram, I actually.
Craziest. This sounds, I do it all myself. So, I have one account which has almost 18,000 followers and bought that one, but that's the account. I actually, it's uniquely me. It has my crazy sneaker collection of Air Jordans. I put my kids on it. I put your trip to Israel. My, yes, my, my, my trips, my vacations, as well as my before and afters for patients and things going on in our office.
We also, have a separate bloom dot facial dot plastics. Oh, I'll check that out. And that's like my office one. And we do have someone, I'm kind of like monitoring it, but we do have someone doing that because it's hard to do both. But I'm, you know, I worry is that if someone did take over my own account, the D RJ Bloom account, it's just like, it loses that authenticity.
I feel like there's something that. People know it's me because it's like kind of this self-deprecating, funny guy out there, like putting these things up. Mm-hmm. And I think to kind of pass that off, I, I think with lose a little bit of that it hasn't gotten too overwhelming. It certainly is hard to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How much time is it taking you per week? How many hours do you think? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: I mean, oh gosh. I mean, I would probably say 10 hours a week I spend on this. And so, it does, I mean, it, it takes a lot of time, but in the end I kind of enjoy doing it. I like interacting with everyone on it and they get a real sense of me and my personality.
And actually, just this like past week, I posted something about Mike the top nine, you know, posts from 2022 from last year. Mm-hmm. And when you look at the posts, The vast majority, like seven of the nine posts were more about lifestyle things and my family and my sneakers and things, and maybe one or two were about surgery and my surgical results.
And it just shows you that like what people respond to the most mm-hmm. are they want to see that kind of more personal side rather than strictly before and afterβs and, and you know, it just makes you step back because I'm like, oh, people want a see my facelift results and they want a see my rhinoplasty results.
But like, the people have spoken, you know, it's like, it shows that they really want a see you from a more personal side.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just, I think you need both though. I think you've got to keep, keep showing the social proof, the social proof of, I mean, you're doing a good job of that, which certainly helps with attaining steady growth in just 3 years? But before and after photos, patient testimonials, patient videos are amazing if you can get them like you interviewing the patient afterwards or doing the nose reveal or they patients love that kind of stuff.
Totally. But it's so, true nowadays. What's the first thing we., we Google somebody or we just Google anything, and then we see someone's name. We don't go to your website. We go straight to Instagram and, and people, and like a lot of these surgeons are fighting it. And I used to fight it too. I thought, this is silly.
What a waste of my time. But for a surgeon, it's not for b2c, it's brilliant. For b2b, it's not as important, but I still have to be there too. Everyone does. We all have to be on social media and if you are not, you're definitely missing out on a whole group. And you can't say it's just for the little kids. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
It's, I mean, we're all on it now, you know?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I have been kind of selective in terms of my social media outlets. Like I'm not on TikTok and I'm not, I mean but, but some of my friends who are facial plastic surgeons have done extreme extremely well on that on that. But I am on Instagram.
That's kind of like my biggest platform. Mm-hmm. Interestingly, I have a website. I love my website. Love it. I think they did a fantastic job with it. But when people come in and are like talking about before and afterβs and they want a see before and afterβs, I, I don't even, like, I haven't up, I need to be better about updating my website and sending, but I update my Instagram so, much more frequently and sometimes I'm just sitting in a console with a patient and they want a see before and afterwards and we just like, scroll through the Instagram and I'm saying like, Ooh, see this, this is very similar to your case.
This is what I would do in this case. And we can look through all the pictures and then they, they can go and I'm like, you can please feel free to refer back to it. I put everything up there, all the different views and they, they feel good about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How are you getting so, many before and after photo approvals?
Because so, many surgeons still say, my patients are private. The minute they say that, I know it's not the patient, it's not, it's the surgeon's belief that, that that's true. It's not, it's not true anymore. I mean, I How are you doing it? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: A couple ways. So, first of all, doing a lot of surgery, So, when you do a lot of surgery you know, if one out of 10 like says yes, then that's great.
And so, yes, I operate three days a week, eight hours a day. And I do a lot of surgery. So, my n the number of before and afterβs I can pick from is larger, right? Mm-hmm. And then the one thing that I always do is I ask personally. Yeah. Like, I'm the one asking that's the secret, and I say, listen, you look great.
I'm so, I'm happy that you're happy. Mm-hmm. and. And, and, and sometimes, you know, they'll say, you know, they, they, they'll tell me, and, and, and sometimes they're like, yes, I'm, you can post it. I'm happy to do that. We have them sign, photo, video, consent and sometimes they say, you know what? I don't want a be on your Instagram or your social media, but if a patient comes in the office, you can show, show them.
And so, you know, I'm grateful that patients even let me, you know, show other patients. But I think that personal ask, rather than having a staff member do it, is really, that is patients know that you, that you care and like that this means a lot.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yep. Actually, a lot of them are flattered that you want to use their photos. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
So, you asking makes all the difference in the world and it's still a numbers game. Even if only three out of 10 said yes, that adds up so, quickly. Totally. And you know what? I would do, get anything you can if they say, you know what, I'm happy to have you show them in the office, get an iPad for that group, you know, and put them all on there.
And while that patient's sitting around a cosmetic patient is stewing a lot during this journey, give them that iPad and keep them in front of all those photos. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, certain, I mean, the, the other thing is there is the, I've, I've had this too, and this kind of has happened with like the younger generation getting rhinoplasty and things like that.
And well two things. Number one Of the younger people, like consider it like a badge of honor. They've said, what? Why am I not on your Instagram yet? And, I said, well, I didn't, I didn't know you wanted to be. And so, those kinds of people are great because they actually are excited to like, put it out there.
And some and some kind of like want the content. And what I mean by that is I've done some influencer surgery before and they want to like put their reveal videos out there and, and I never. Ask until, but they're like, oh, I want a, like, some ask, will you film footage in the or, or you do this. And I'm, I'm happy to do that for them, but I always let them make the first kind of move and say, oh, I want a put this out there.
I'm going to post my reveal video, I'm going to post my experience. And then I say, would you mind if I use those photos or can I share your video? Mm-hmm. And they're usually, they like, want the content for their own, like, outlets. So, how does that process start?
Catherine Maley, MBA: There are some influencers who literally have a PR group who call you and say, do you want a do a deal? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: I, I have. I have. I've seen it all. Yeah. And being in practice for 13 years, I have had so, I did somebody's nose probably about five years ago now, and. She, it was originally started through a direct message and she direct message, direct message me. I un I, like, unfortunately, I, I had no idea who this person was.
It's like a young influencer with millions of followers on YouTube and so, she's like, oh, can I come in for a consult? I'm interested in a rhinoplasty. Mm-hmm. And I said, sure, call the office, make an appointment. And she's like, well, I don't necessarily live in your area, but I might be in this area.
She grew up kind of close and can I come in on the weekend? And then I looked at her Instagram fine and I was like, Hmm, okay, I might want a see this person on the weekend. And I actually came in on the weekend mm-hmm. I saw her, especially with her, with her mother. And she loved and I said, this is what it is, the whole thing.
And she called up Monday book surgery and I didn't say anything about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: She didn't ask for any favors? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Not Nope. Until two weeks prior she said, you know what? I think my followers would like to see this. Can we film some stuff in the operating room? And I said, yeah, and, and, and ac and actually I didn't, and I didn't ask for anything and she didn't ask for anything.
Mm-hmm. and I am not a fan of giving discounts or you know, free surgery in exchange for this stuff. Like I understand now knowing, and when and when she posted her Reveal video. Mm-hmm. Okay. Which was one week after her surgery, she posted it at 6:00 PM by 6:00 AM the next day, it was seen already by 1.5 million people and it was.
It blew up. And I realize now, h the power of this mm-hmm. But I've also, seen the other, I've seen people come into my office, literally a girl who's 18 comes into her off my office with her mother and said to me, I'm a social media influencer. Mm-hmm. And I said, hi, I am Jason Bloom. Nice to meet you. And we go through the consult.
She was also, interested in a rhinoplasty. And at the end we give her the price for surgery. Mm-hmm., she looks at it, looks at her mom, looks at the price, stands up and walks out. And, and then I was like, okay, well that's, that's what it is. I don't owe you anything other than a good result in surgery and you don't owe me anything.
And this woman's, this girl's mom called back like, Two weeks later and she called my office manager, surgical coordinator and said, yeah, she's doing a bunch of things. I think Dr. Bloom really should, the word they use is collaborate. Okay. You know, Dr. Bloom really should collaborate with her. And my surgical coordinator comes in and she's like, what should we do?
I said, you know what you should do, send her the quote for surgery again and tell her these are the dates we have available. And she did that. Two weeks later she booked surgery. Oh, nice. What? I didn't offer her anything. She didn't, and, and, and if this is a private thing, surgery, I'm not going to post anything.
And you know what, afterwards she posted it all because she was interested in using the content on her own on her own pages. And then actually I asked her, would you mind if I shared this? So. It's all happened organically. Mm-hmm., but I feel like I don't want a be responsible or contractually obligated for anything.
And I certainly don't owe them anything other than, and I don't want them to owe me anything other than a good result. That's what I owe them, is I want a get them the best result possible. I have seen friends of mine have four-page contracts with, you must mention these things and you must use these hashtags and, and ex in exchange for procedures and, and it's just, that's just not me.
Never happened.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the girl, so, the, the, the girl who blew up your account, the one that with the 1 million followers, did she come back and want anything from you? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Never. She never has. She's had multiple surgeries with other people too, and she still will po she's posted, she regrets some of her other surgeries and she said she never regrets her rhinoplasty.
It was always great. She has over 10 million followers on, on YouTube and about four and a half or 5 million followers on Instagram. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And if you, I mean, and you can look at my Instagram and stuff. You can find her. She's on there, but like, she still texts me all the time, says I love my nose.
It's like my five-year nose anniversary, you know? Oh, that's so, cute.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you know you have a challenge though because of what you're doing. You've got the young rhinos, the older facelifts, then you have the men hair transplant. How are you marketing to three very different groups? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean certainly, I think.
Well, Instagram and social media has been hugely popular with the, with the younger generation. Obviously, this is the 17- to 20-year-old rhinoplasty patients. Additionally, my name is very good in the area. I mean, I, I would say even better than my Instagram is the word of mouth that I get and referrals from.
And I, and I'll, and I'll tell you one other, my, my biggest area of marketing that has kind of grown my practice over the past 13 years. But yeah, men are hard because men aren't necessarily on Instagram and following this. So, I have. You know, treated friends of mine with hair transplants, and I have a hair care company called Hairapy Hair Care.
Oh, good for you. And so, you know, I, you know, treated my friends and they refer other friends and then kind of surgery. You know, facial rejuvenation surgery where I used to say, where I used to see the majority of patients in their late fifties to late sixties. Now, I, the vast majority of my patients getting facial rejuvenation surgery, and that's like face neck lifts and some eyelid work is in their early fifties.
Yeah. So, I think over the past five years, it's kind of slid up at least five years in terms of the age. Mm-hmm. And, and they're still very savvy with social media and Facebook and so, they do see me on there. I'm, I do some, some news pretty frequently, so, they see me on TV once in a while.
But I would say my, my, my greatest marketing over the past 13 years has been the word-of-mouth and. Because that's hard to do as you know, those are the best patients, but the hardest to get, right? Mm-hmm. So, I am a train and, and this is like a little bit of my secret, and what I've done is I've been a trainer for Allergan and Galderma and Revance, and I work with all these companies.
Mm-hmm., and, and, and interestingly the dermatologist, we, that was kind of how we opened, was that, you know, I was with him for eight years and he used to say, why are you training these nurses and why are you training these dermatologists? They're your competition. Mm-hmm. very, very, very shortsighted. Mm-hmm.
And what I've done over the past 13 years is I only train derms. I only train PAs. I only train nurses. No plastic surgeons and no one who works for a plastic surgeon. And you know what? I'm a good guy. I go in there, show them exactly what I do. I train them. I train tons. I love training local, local, regionally.
I love training dermatologists and these big med spas. And you know what? When they have a patient, because they can, they're, they see, like, I mean, I've become friends with all, all of these people. And when they have a patient who needs their facelift, like who think they're going to send it to, mm-hmm., are they going to send it to someone who they've never had any relationship with?
Who's they? They who? You know what? They've never seen their before and afterβs. They haven't. They're like, you know what they say? Why don't you go see Dr. Bloom? Whether they book with me or not is that's then my issue. Right. But they say, why don't you book a consult to see Dr. Bloom? He does good work. I see him on Instagram.
He's come here. He was nice. He showed us, you know, like you might like him. And so, I get more referrals from my friends who are dermatologists and nurses and injectors and PAs in my local community. Mm-hmm. than anyone else. That is my number one source of marketing for the past 13 years, and I continue to do it and not for the money I get from Galderma or Allergan or Revamps to do the training that is pennies compared to the amount of.
Referrals and networking that I do at each of these events. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are the vendors though, are they helpful with pr? Because I used to tell people, you know, the best thing to do with big pharma money because there's a lot of pharma money there. Hang out with their PR department, they can get you a lot of, or have they or have they not or� How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean I've done some, I'm, I mean I've done national PR stuff with some of the companies and yeah, it's a lot of work sometimes for, you know, very little benefit.
And for me, I would, I mean I did like a, I mean, years ago I did like a town and country event with Allergan and we were up on the stage and, and doing this and they put it in Counter Country Magazine and it was on their website and like a bunch of different things. And like to me, honestly, when I look back at it, I would rather do an event.
One of my friends who owns a big med spa who has nine nurse injectors and sends me more people than doing a national event with one of these companies through their PR department, because it's just patients, you know, the patients that I get one patient coming in from California to have their nose done versus 20 that I'm sent over the course of the next couple months from the other.
It's just it. I just don't think it has the same. I would much rather local, regional things with people I trust and care about rather than a big national event that involves time and energy and I just don't see the same, you know, reward on the backside. And my reward is surgical patient referrals.
That's what I want a see.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you're doing only surgery, but you've got a lot of other revenue generators are in your office. So, how are you set up staff-wise? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: So, great. Great question. I use, I mean, I built a lot of what I do based on based on injectables and I've converted a lot of them to surgery over the course of the next couple years.
When I opened my office three and a half years ago, I brought on a nurse injector who I have since trained in like to do what I do and she's now a trainer for Galderma. I, for the last two years, I'm no longer taking new patients for injectables. Hmm. I'm busy enough and, and, I'm trying. And I tell them, listen, they can see what I did when I'm talking about like, go see my nurse injector, she's great.
She injects me. I was like, she sees exactly what I did at last appointment. Some people still want me to do their toxin even. And I'm like, okay, no problem. Happy to do that. But I want a encourage my nurse injector. I just hired another nurse injector to come out part-time. And then one of our estheticians was in nursing school and she has and she has now finished nursing school, so, she'll be slowly learning to inject over the course.
So, we should. My partner who injects on, and she's a facial plastic surgeon and she's still about 65% surgery and about 35% injectables. Mm-hmm. We have my full-time nurse injector and then potentially two newer injectors. Who, that I want them doing the majority of the non-invasive aesthetic work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you believe in surgical versus non-surgical, keeping it all under one roof. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Right? Totally, totally. And, and I'm, I, you know, and it's certainly easier to get in to see one of my injectors and it is to, for me, I only am in the office itself two days a week. Mm-hmm., cause I'm operating. Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thurs Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
So, I'm just only in the office two days, So, to get a, a patient, you know, you can't tell a patient that comes in today that the next time they can see me is in September, you know, or in October. It's just, they'll be, they'll, they're gone. So, you need to offer them options or else see they're, they're not, they're, they're not.
And, and not just options, but options. Who you trust and options who you've, you know, who you've trained. Mm-hmm. Both of the new nurse injectors, who, well, one of them, again, new to my practice, she's been a nurse injector for 10 years and one who is newer, both of them. I want them to learn how I do it.
Yes. And so, they're, they're shadowing for the ne, I mean, one is shadowing for about six months, and she's coming in on days. She's not even working. Coming into the rooms with me, with my nurse, injector, with my partner, seeing how we do it. W you know, making the, you know, the diagnosis and saying, okay, we're going to use this product here.
Why? Mm-hmm., and I always ask, that's my favorite question. Why? Why are you using that product? Why are you using that amount? Why are you going there? Why are you starting there? Why are you using a cannula? Why are you using a needle? Because I like, it doesn't matter necessarily, as long as you have a reasoning for doing these things.
I want them to develop their own why. And it's as, and it could be like, I'm doing this because you did it, and I think that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm., but I want it to kind of click and make sense to them if they're going to be doing it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's so, important that you're both on the same page on that. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
There have been practices who have hired nurse injectors and two weeks in they realize this injector overfills every time. And it's because they came from a commission-based position and, and it didn't match with this practice at all. They were all about natural results and they had, they looked like loo bird people going out of there with the filler and they had to stop it immediately because it was hurting their brand.
It was hurting their relationships.
Jason Bloom, MD: Catherine, if you knew how long it took me to like hire one nurse injector and then a new person coming in, there's a lot of. There's a lot of, a lot out there, let's say. Mm-hmm. and I am extremely conservative and, and totally non-confrontational, and I just want patients to be happy.
Mm-hmm. and I mean, that has to go a lot with my philosophy. Like I, I mean, I certainly do take before and afters for surgery, but I don't take pictures for injectables. And I, I can explain why, but I, I just wanted someone to fir, first of all, I wasn't inviting someone into my practice. Unless I saw consistently that they were producing natural looking results because, and they, I mean, as crazy as the sound, they couldn't look crazy because we all see those people who maybe they're great injectors, but they look a little bit strange because they're overfilled or they're doing too much.
And, and I just want someone who is going to look natural, do natural results because that's what I'm trying to convey. And you know, patients ask, sometimes they say, oh, like where did you get that in a good thing? It's like, wow, where did you get that? That looks good. And then there's also, where did you get that?
That looks a little crazy. I don't want a go there. So, I never want that ladder situation. So, yeah. And, and, and by having them see what we do, I think it kind of reinforces that kind of, this is what we do, it's a natural result. That's what I'm looking to put forth.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Any have you had any staff issues like everybody else or how's that going? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: You mean like staffing in general? Just hiring people? Yeah. Yeah. fortunately. I've never had someone leave my practice for, I mean, other than one was, she was Canadian and she her visa was up, so, she had to go back to Canada. One went to medical school, one went to PA school, so, okay.
Those were the only three people that have ever left my practice and, and for bigger and better things, you know, like I would never hold something, somebody back. Interestingly the pa is graduating PA school in June and I hope to have her back in my office. As a surgical pa I want her assisting in the operating room and doing pre- and post-op surgical stuff, so, hopefully she'll join our practice back.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what's your secret to hiring and keeping them. Taking good care of your employees? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Being a good person, like, I, I, you know, it, it's, it's every day we're there. I, I buy lunch for the office and just like keeping it light and mm-hmm., you know, we just have a good dynamic. And when you hire someone, you really, and, and this is what I say, and like, I'm like, when I'm hiring even for the front desk, I'm like, I just need to make sure that your vibe with our office mm-hmm.
before I hire you. And it's just, we have such a positive, good vibe in our office. Like, I've been super lucky over the past three and a half years. It's like, it's literally like a family. I, I, I'm, I'm with these people. As much as my family members, right? I'm in the office, I'm in the operating room. And so, kind of creating that family type environment.
And it sounds kind of hokey, but it really isn't. Like that's, that's the kind of vibe we got, we have there. And you got to kind of, I just respect every one of my employees. They respect me. They know they can call me about any situation, talk to me personally about any situation at any time of the day or night.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, good for you because it starts at the top, so, you're doing something right there. So, kudos I saw on Instagram, I think you had a patient who was like a Sep and she, two years later, but, but what's that? What's her story? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean, she worked as a medical assistant for a dermatology practice and I.
She was referred to me through that dermatology practice and I did her nose and just like in our, you know, doctor-patient relationship as she was really happy, you know, I kind of found out she was, you know, not as happy where she currently was. Mm-hmm. and we were looking for medical assistants and aesthetician and she's both, and I brought her into our practice and she's been fantastic and she's been our medical assistant ever since.
And she is also, aesthetician in moving into some aesthetician roles as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But has she been a good referral source or at least a good walking, talking testimonial for the patient's visiting? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Totally. I mean, she's rooming pa, she's rooming patients and you know, she'll sense maybe like a patient who's like nervous mm-hmm.
and they're coming in for a consult and she's like, you know what, you're going to be great. Dr. Bloom did my nose. Mm-hmm. And again, she looks natural, she looks good, she doesn't look crazy. And so, that kind of reinforces our brand and what we do and what better to have someone in our office. I've, I mean, Anne, I've done surgery on another front desk person.
I did her nose. I've done different kind of procedures like face tight and things on some of our estheticians. So, I love treating some of our office people because they trust it shows trust. Mm-hmm. shows that the results are natural and they're kind of walking, talking advertisements for all this stuff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I always say it's an investment. All of you who think, what? I'm not paying for that. You're missing the whole point. There's nothing better to a cosmetic patient that walks in and says, oh, I don't know. Should I do this, shouldn't I? Well, I had it done and I can tell you my story, really. Let me see. Like, do where are your scars?
What's going on? Like, how was it, you know, nothing better. I, I can't imagine, I can't imagine any better investment than having those walking, talking testimonials. It's good pr it's also, good team building and some of the surgeons have like all those r rules about it. I think that's what happens when you come in into it with that.
Fear of, you're going to screw me. You're going to, you know, you're going to get surgery and walk away, and then you haven't signed all these documents. I think that's where it gets crunchy and yeah. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: I mean, we, there's no doc. I mean, obviously they get a discount, they still pay for surgery, right? They discounted surgery and they have to be with our practice for at least a year prior to getting surgery, with the exception of someone who had surgery.
And then I bring into our practice. And the, those are, you know, those are just but you know, that's, that's from a surgical standpoint. Mm-hmm. But certainly, I encourage, encourage every one of our staff, get toxins, get fillers, get lasers. You can talk about it. Get as much as you want. I never charged them for it.
There are only two things that they have to. Number one, you do it after hours. Yes. You ask our nurse injector, you ask me, I'll stay late, come in early. We're happy to do it, but not in the crazy flow of our office day. And the second thing is, if you, you know, all these companies offer free product for the staff.
And I say, get it in advance. You want your lips done, get the syringe in advance, we'll do it done. Never charge you. You can do it, you know, whenever you are ready to do it. So, those I do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so, it, there's, it's all good. All of that is good. It's free for you. It takes a little of your time.
It makes the staff so, happy. And actually, I, when I write ads for practices, one of the perks I write is cosmetic treatments. Cause that's why we want a be in this industry, you know? We want stuff done. Exactly. What would you say is like the biggest challenge of running your own solo practice? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Oh gosh, the biggest challenge.
You know, I'm not the greatest business person and I've had to learn a lot. How'd you learn it? I have some like fantastic mentors in the business sense. Edwin Williams is, ed Williams is, he's incredible. Your friend and, and one of my best business mentors. And I, you know, I, I didn't do his fellowship, but I would, I mean, I, I feel like I did his business fellowship in learning so, much from him and calling him
And I've been on his podcast and we talked about how, kind of like stuff that we, we talk about. So, I consider him huge mentor of mine and kind of like getting a small group of people who you really trust around you who are smart and an accountant, a financial advisor, and people who you trust to kind of help you.
Mm-hmm. And I, I said, listen, I am, this is my first time doing it. I need your help in doing that. And then and we kind of like starting out, I did everything at, at, you know, Everything myself. And then, then I had, you know, my office manager and she was my surgical coordinator and office manager. And then we hired a surgical coordinator to kind of like allow her to do more of the nuts and bolts of the business kind of stuff and more of the HR stuff.
Mm-hmm. And then my surgical coordinator can focus more on the patients and the booking surgeries and the scheduling surgeries and getting patients ready for surgery. So, like, as we grew, as we kind of like grew into our practice and, and felt more comfortable with what we were doing, we added staff to offload some of the responsibilities where at the beginning we were doing everything and it.
For, to pay someone to do that. You know, we're lucky that we, we do well as a practice and, you know, I pay people to make my life easier and to make my office manager's life easier so, that she can, focuses focus on things that are important to the business and not kind of be bogged down with other things.
But I remember, I mean, just, you know, like going back to the, what, what we kind of opened this with was when I was at the derm office and I wanted to book a surgery. Guess who was doing that? You were, right? I mean, I was calling the operating room. I was writing the pre-op scripts. I was doing all meeting with the patient's pre-op.
I was taking all the pictures. I was making sure that they got their EKGs. I was doing all of that, and I was killing myself, literally. And I didn't have this point. And that was one of the things, why now my life is easier because I have someone to help out with that. But I mean, these are newer things.
As the practice grows, you get people to help with these kinds of things. And it's all, it's all growing pains, but you can't be, I would say the one thing that I will say is you, you can't at the beginning be unwilling to do it yourself. Because none of its easy, and you got to be willing to go out there and make the calls and book the cases because no one's going to do it for you.
You have to do it as you're growing or else, you know, like you, you can't be a pome being like, oh gosh, I need someone, you're just starting a practice. Oh, I need someone to do that. You know, it's like, right, no, you can do it
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just, it's worth it, or they try to be cheap about it and hire this one person and they have to wear the 14 hats because you don't want a do it.
But then you burn that person out and they leave and you're, and now you're really screwed. And so, there's such a balance between how to pay, pay for time, because all we have is time. And it's like, do I do this myself? I mean, there's always, in business, there's always that rule. If you're supposed to be making, let's say 2000 an hour, you should be doing nothing under 2000 an hour task.
You know? And if you look at it logically like that, and you think, oh my God, why am I doing. The 40 things that you do, that you probably should be doing, you know because you, you're cheap because you don't want a pay somebody else to do it. But then again, on the other hand, then you also, have to manage other people and hope that they're doing what you think they're doing.
Yeah. So, that's why business is so, important nowadays. You've got to figure out the business side of this, by the way you ran. Right? That, by that, what are you talking about? You have a hair club; you have a business hair. What, what was that about? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. So, very entrepreneurial of you. It's, it's, it. Been about six years in the making.
I was approached by some friends who, some of them, so, two partners. One is kind of a Q V C alum is a rep of some products and has done multiple marketing kind of things. And product representative product representation of brand representation at QVC, which is about 30, 45 minutes from my office.
Mm-hmm. And one of his friends her father who passed away was founded a company called Hairapy Hair Care years ago. I don't, I mean, some people have heard about it. I mean, it was in like Walgreens and c v s and Rite Aid, and it was a big company. And interestingly her dad had all of these patents and formulas.
For hair growth and, and hair care in shampoos and on all of these different ingredients. And when he passed away it was just kind of sitting there. And interestingly, so, the three of us got together and she's like, I would wish, you know, we could take something with these ingredients that we call BioDapt eight.
It's eight ingredients that we have patents on and, and the formulations. And why can't we like reformulate it and make like a shampoo that helps with hair growth and thickening your hair and a conditioner and some serums. And that's what we did. And we started about six years ago. We are now sold in doctor's offices and direct consumer on our website, under the name Hills.
No, it's, it's called βHairapyβ Haircare. So, it's like βtherapyβ, but it's βHairapyβ. Mm-hmm. Hairapy haircare. And it's been great. We're going to, we're planning a bigger launch this year, but a lot of my friends in the co in like the facial plastics community and plastic surgery and derm community have now carry it in their office or you know, direct patients to their website.
It's very easy. We have serums, so, just serum once a day that matches your skin type because, so, there's a, a normal to dry, a normal to oily and a sensitive, and people are like, well, I, they're like, no, no, no. I'm not talking about my skin. I'm talking about my scalp. I. Does your skin stop at your hairline?
No. Right. So, if you have oily skin, guess what? You have oily scalp. If you have dry flaky skin, you have dry scalp. And if you have sensitive skin, you probably have sensitive scalp. So, we use these formulas actually, and we've done great clinical trials showing improved thickness in the hair, improved styling, improved volume, and, and also, like again, I like if I'm invested in the company and I'm, I'm part of it, I give it to my friends and say, listen.
let me know what you think. My fellow who is postpartum was having a lot of shedding and postpartum her hair loss. Mm-hmm. She uses this and she just said the amount of shedding she has is so, is so, much less. She loves the way that her hair looks much thicker afterwards. So, it's been really exciting and it's just kind of like one of those fun things that I've done.
And because it benefits my patients β
Catherine Maley, MBA: But wait a second. That's a whole other company and business that you're doing. So, are you going B2B or B2C? Are you trying to sell it on QVC, direct to consumer, or how are you marketing this thing? How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: So, our, our marketing is do we do direct to consumer through our website?
We, we offer it at our practice. Other doctors, it's right now only like my doctor friends who have kind of reached out to me or who do, like, for example, when I see a patient who is getting p r P injections or P r F injections or hair transplant, we just roll it in to that package. Right? So, oh, you're interested in hair.
We go through the whole thing. Our non-surgical surgical hair restoration. And then as part of it, we. We want, I want you to start on this and if you like it, you can continue to buy it off of the website. Additionally, we have kind of, you know, doctors don't necessarily like to take up shelf space in their office with these products.
So, we offer kind of affiliate programs where they give the patient our website and they have a special code, the patient enters it, and then basically they get 10% of every sale that the patient makes linked back to their office. Gotcha. And, and although we have huge connections at QVC, QVC is not the place where we want this because the margins that they take are very steep and it's just not right for our practice at this, for our products at this point, maybe in the future.
But yeah, we'll see where it takes us. We're going to kind of do a little bit bigger marketing launch in 2023. Well,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you the reason you do QVC is because it gets the attention of the big boys. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years? There's this woman who, she's, I donβt know, 25 years old. She wrote a book on it and she had this concealer you know, facial concealer.
And she was Just trying to, you know, get it out there. Anyway, she got on QVC, the profit or the margins were awful. However, LβOrΓ©al ended up buying her company for a billion dollars. Right?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean, that would be nice. I, I will tell you where we're working right now is that some of the companies have, you know, I have some relationships over the past 13 years with some very high ups at many kinds of device and injectables companies as well as skincare companies.
We've had conversations, many of them like it, we're talking about partnering with some of them not to buy the company, but to potentially, you know, shampoo, conditioner and serum isn't like, there's not. Companies doing that out there. So, it's kind of a new thing. And, and this year, hair is the last year, a couple of years.
Hair has been really exciting. And so, we've been in talks with some companies, so, who, who knows.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good kudos to you because if the plastic surgery doesn't work out. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Jason Bloom, MD: I'm not giving that up. I'm not giving that up. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Alright. And then my last question, well actually, do you have any words of wisdom for anybody who's I not even just coming out in the world, but just being out there right now, all of the crazy going on. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
Any, any words of wisdom for how you're doing just fine?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think the key is to surround yourself by good people and be good to those good people. So, you know, when I, when, when I started out with three employees like I had my office manager, I had an MA and I had well really an office manager, an MA that was like, there was three of us.
And then I and then I hired a front desk person and really, we started out with, with two and then three employees for a little bit of time because and, and just make sure you bring in good people and you interview them and, and you know, like that they're just not necessarily that they're great.
You know, you want them to be good workers, but they're good people. Like their hearts are in the right place and they support you and believe what your mission is, and they believe in you that you're going to do a good job. And then from that, take care of those people as, as the owner, as a boss because you know, I mean, and that of those three people who started with me, I've operated on family members of theirs, I've operated on some of that, you know, it's just like they believed in me in what I could do, and they believed and they trusted, you know, my results.
They trusted what I was doing. And, and in exchange for that, I've always been very good to my staff and the people that I've surrounded myself with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Kudos to you because it'll save you so, much time, money, and hassle and sleepless nights. How many, how many, I mean, staff tr problems can just wreak havoc on your mental health. How has this helped you in attaining steady growth in just 3 years?
You know, you, they're the ones that waking you up at two in the morning and you're like, really? I mean, why, you know, why can't we all just get along?
Jason Bloom, MD: I, I remember one thing and I, I'll say my, my father is an oral surgeon and he's 74. He is very close to retirement, but I don't think he's, he's, he's not, he's not ready to retire yet.
But he used to say, he's like, The surgery is the easy part. Yeah. He's like, it's, you know, this staff problem and this person calling out and this person's calling, you know, having an issue with this person. And, you know, this thing's breaking. He's like, that's what gives you gray hair. And so, I, I just remember him saying that.
And it's true, you know, like we get to go into the operating room and, and, and we do what we do and we, you know, we, we love it and we know how to do surgery, but the hard part is everything else behind the scenes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I couldn't agree more. But now I don't want a forget what is with the sneakers. You have sneakers everywhere.
If you everybody, well by the way, what's your website? Because people should go to your website. You look on your website, you have this gorgeous office, and then it has like a sneaker, it, it has as like a statue and it has sneakers in art. And I thought, what's with the sneaker thing?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah, I mean, I, you can probably see in the background there that I have, like, those are all piece, those are all like sneaker things from patients who have, like, I love Air Jordans.
I have a collection, actually, I'm here in my home office and I have a sneaker closet of hundreds of Air Jordans up here. Really? And you've, it, it, it's kind of been leaked a little bit on my Instagram, so, it's out there. But yeah, I mean, I used to wear, prior to the pandemic, I used to wear a suit and tie mm-hmm.
every day to the office. And now I am scrubs. Sneakers and that's like kind of, I expressed myself with some cool sneakers and now patients like call in. They like say, Hey, what sneakers does he have on today? They love to see me wearing kind of like these cool, outrageous sneakers. And then they like, buy me things like, this is some, there was like a mosaic back there that was made of like one of my sneaker posts on Instagram that, that a patient made.
And just some like cool things. So, it's kind of become a little bit of my personality quirky.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's, it's unusual and at least you have a space for it because usually it's the woman that takes up all the closet space. And in your house, it must be you.
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. Well, this is upstairs in my home office, so, it's far away from me, it's from my wife's my wife's closet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is she okay with your fetish?
Jason Bloom, MD: Yeah. Well, you know what? She used to be like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. And now and now when like a person comes to our house and she's like giving them a tour, showing them around. That's, that's her far she loves, that's her favorite part. She loves to show them the sneaker closet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's crazy. Good for you. That's interesting. I did not see that in your personality. Usually when I see you at conferences, you know, everyone has their game face on at conferences. That's why I love these podcasts. You know, you're actually a real person. You're you. That's a really quirky, that's so, funny.
I saw it on Instagram. I saw the, I didn't realize there were hundreds there. I, you definitely look like a lot, but. Okay. All right. Well thank you so, much Dr. Bloom. It has been a pleasure. I hope to see you at a meeting coming up soon because now that we're back in action and everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, if you would so, kindly subscribe to Beauty in the Biz if you haven't already, and if you have any questions for Dr. Bloom, how would they get ahold of you?
Jason Bloom, MD: I mean, the best way is I told you I do my own social media. Yeah. www.instagram.com/drjbloom or www.facebook.com/bloomj. Reach out to me on social media. My Instagram is probably the easiest way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to create steady growth in just 3 years.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Bloom, you can reach out to his website at, www.BloomFacialPlastics.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Bloom for sharing his experience on attaining steady growth in just 3 years.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βSteady Growth in Just 3 Years β with Jason Bloom, MDβ.
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#steadygrowthcosmeticsurgeon #steadygrowthplasticsurgeon #steadygrowthaestheticpractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the pros and cons of nurse injectors.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Pros and Cons of Nurse Injectors β with Lisa Marie Wark, MBA".
Is it worth it to bring on a nurse injector to grow your cosmetic practice?
The answer isβ¦.βmaybeβ.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with my colleague Lisa Marie Wark, MBA.
Like, me, she is a practice management consultant for cosmetic practices, and even founded and operated the first luxury medical spa in Las Vegas years ago.
Hereβs what we covered:
- Her experience hiring and managing nurse injectors
- When do the numbers make sense to bring a nurse injector on board?
- Are they an employee or independent contractor and much moreβ¦
Hiring a nurse injector can be the best decision you make to grow your practice or the worst nightmare if things go sideways. Learn what to consider and watch out for in this episode.
Visit Lisa Marie Wark's Website P.S. If you havenβt already, can you please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a 5-star review so I can grow the audience? I would really appreciate it. Thank you!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Pros and Cons of Nurse Injectors β with Lisa Marie Wark, MBA Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the pros and cons of nurse injectors. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", and consultant of plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. Now, I have a special guest today that's a non-surgeon, and I'd like to introduce you to Lisa Marie Wark, MBA.
Now she's a practice management consultant just like myself (as in an expert on the pros and cons of nurse injectors), and she's focused on business develop. Best practices as well as marketing. And she's even created and formulated beauty and wellness products for our industry. Now, Lisa Marie founded and operated the very first luxury medical spot in Vegas, and we'll ask her more about that.
And then she's also, a very sought-after speaker at the medical conferences. She and I have been sharing the podium for years, like all over the us and now we're going international. So, Lisa Marie also, supports many nonprofit organizations within her community. And she's interested. Now, this is really interesting.
I don't know. This was so, random. She reads and speaks Japanese fluently, so, we'll ask her about that too, along with the pros and cons of nurse injectors. So, Lisa Marie, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Oh, Catherine, thank you so, much for having me. I'm Beauty and the Biz. I'm an avid follower and I listen to your podcast religiously. So, big fan. And also, I'm a big fan of you as a consultant in the plastic surgery space.
You've been around for a while and I've learned a lot from you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's the pleasure of this. Like I love hanging around with the competitors and some of them don't like it, and you and I just get along very, very well and I love sharing ideas and nobody has the market on all the ideas, you know?
And frankly at this point there are probably not many new ideas. It's who can put them out there creatively and. And get people's attention and get people fired up, you know, for this industry. So, there, I don't, there's plenty for everybody, quite frankly. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I think a lot of times too when we get clients, it's the clients that resonate with us.
And that's why they choose us because we have different styles and, you know, that's what makes us, you know, unique and also, be able to work together and to lean on each other. So, yeah, no, it's, it's wonderful to be a peer of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that was a really good point. Not everybody jives with each other.
Yeah. So, so, you would, we definitely have different personalities and so, that's a really good point. So, before I get off course, how in the world did you learn Japanese? The rest of us, usually we learn Spanish or I learn French. How did you go to Japanese? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: You know, in college, in undergrad, I went to Willamette University in Oregon and I was in the Japanese dorm and I had a Japanese roommate.
And so, every day she would come in and she would actually knock on the door before she'd come into our room and her name was Como. And I said, Como, you don't have to knock on the door. This is your room too. And she would say, oh, okay. Thank you so, much. Then she turned around, come back, and knock on the door and I thought, ok, I need to learn Japanese.
So, I studied Japanese for seven years, lived there for three years, and then I got my M B A in international management emphasis to East Asian Japanese techniques.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And you were also, a news reporter, right? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: I was. I was. I've had nine lives. Who's counting? Yeah. I was a financial news anchor in San Francisco.
Up the street from you? Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. I do. That is on my bucket list. I've never been, I want to go to Tokyo and I would, I'm assuming I'm like going to be the tallest person ever. Oh my gosh. You would be. You would be. You would be. I love, I, I love the culture. I love how graceful they are. I love the food.
Like if I could eat sushi every day, I would that it is clean eating. So, was it, did you love the food while you were there? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: You know, I did. I got tired of fish; you know? Yes. If you went to a, if you went to, you know, McDonald's, I mean, they have McDonald's there and you were to, or like, you know, you're American and sometimes you're like, you know, I could just use a Big Mac.
but unfortunately, the Big Mac would taste like fish. So, you'd be like, ah, just doesn't, it's not like America, but I love Japan and I obviously was treated very differently because of what I look like. You know, there's not a lot of, well, I had red hair, if you can believe that back in the day and people would come, I'd be sitting on the train station and.
Feel people touch my hair that I didn't know. And I just, you know, it was very awkward for me to have that happen. And then people would come up and ask me if they could take my picture Oh, wow. And say, well, I donβt know. You, you know, what are you using this for? And they said, ah, you know, you're, you're an American, you're a foreigner.
We want to take pictures of you. So, It was a very different experience. I loved every second of it. I climbed Mount Fuji, if you can believe that, and taught English to homestay moms and to executives at N E C in Panasonic. And. The different Japanese companies and you know, I also, went to Tokyo International University.
There, I was going to get into their Becca program, which is a prerequisite for learning Japanese fluently enough to get your M B A over there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know somehow you went from that to our industry and we're glad you did. And that was like what, 15 years ago and you opened, you founded and opened your very first, the very first medical spot. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: I did, I did back in 2005. You know, it was funny. I went to San Antonio to a medical. It's a medical spa. That's what, I can't remember the name, but it was this wonderful conference and I still know people from that conference today. And what I loved about the whole concept of medical spas was that it created that spa environment, that relaxation, that calming experience with medicine.
And it reminded me of. Meets West, right? Where, you know, a lot of eastern practices, medical practices are, are very they're just very calming and, and everything is about, it's, it's not so, sterile and cold. And so, I thought if we could bring that together and marry that together people would love to, you know, come in and they'd get their facials.
And then we did injectables, and then we did hormone replacement therapies. So, it was the first one in Las Vegas. Wow. And how long did you own it? We were in business until 2011, and then I decided to, you know, start a family and, you know, move on to my next season of life. So, that's, that's how, that's, that's how that ended.
And I started consulting and loved consulting. I went around with a wonderful architect who worked for the spa at. At Spanish Bay and at Pebble Beach Lodge and the Grand Yle. And he actually got into creating more like villas and overnight you know, care facilities for plastic surgeons. And so, he was help building those out back then, and I was writing his feasibility studies and making sure we were within.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, the reason I brought you on is because we want to talk about nurse injectors. What is happening is, I'll tell you what, what happened, why this all exploded, was the surgeons always wanted to do surgery and. I, I've known the surgeons forever, and I thought your customer service is terrible.
Like, they wouldn't answer the phone. The staff wasn't friendly. The waiting was out of control, and it was just ripe for the taking because the patient with a credit card was not going to stand for that. They wanted service to go with these high prices. And the surgeons just, it's, they, it wasn't their focus.
Like they didn't want to do injectables, they wanted to do surgery. So, that was. Such an opportunity for somebody to develop this medical spa concept, and now it's completely, you know, taken over. So, then the, the now the surgeon has to say, okay, some surgeons have embraced injectables and they love doing them.
They like doing them themselves. They love building that relationship. Some surgeons say, I still don't want to do injectables, but I don't want to lose the patient either, right? Cause this one and done. If you're around for a while, you realize, wait a. This one and done can't be a good business model either, right?
So, that was creating this this vacillating, should I get a nurse injector, should I not get one? And in some practices, they've done such a great job that nurse injector's bringing in a million or two and she's well worth the money in other practice. They're just complaining the whole time saying, oh my God, I'm giving her so, much money for what?
So, that's what we're here to talk about. And you know so, much about it because not only, you know, do you consult on it, you actually experienced it. Right. So, in your own, what was your own experience when you opened up your medical spa, when you were going to bring in a nurse injector? On what criteria did you. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Well, the criteria for me, because I'm not a doctor we had a medical doctor at the time and a supervising physician. We also, had a visiting plastic surgeon that would come in and do consults. So, what I needed is someone that is a, either a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant. I didn't feel comfortable with a registered nurse just because the Nevada.
Require you to have a doctor that should be on site if you're a registered nurse and you are doing any type of injectables. So, my first experience with this was hiring a physician assistant and a nurse practitioner. One Nur the nurse practitioner was actually experienced. While the physician assistant was a newbie and she was trying to gain experience in injectables because she, and like a lot of these you know healthcare providers, mid-level healthcare providers, they.
They are looking to make money. They're looking to make money in injectables and create a following and then you know, take that following from your practice. And so, that was the first time that I, you know, really was around what the politics, right, of hiring someone, having them come in, interface with the patients, do the procedures.
And then the question was, whose patient? Are they, because a lot of times the, you know, PA or the nurse practitioner will say, well, really that's my patient. I've been injecting that patient. That patient comes to me, that patient's going to follow me if I leave this this medical spa or if, or practice.
And so, you really. It was really a quandary at the time as to, gee, you know, how do I protect my business from losing patients when the, when the injector walks out the door.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's the big question. When you bring somebody on board, are you trying to bring an experienced person that has a following?
Because I love that idea. If you can make it work and get the right person, what a great team, because she just brought an influx of patients to you and. So, so, you haven't, oh, you know, there's your marketing for the year. You know, she's got, she's brought the whole group with, however, on the other hand, she's one of those people who knows everything and she, she thinks she's the boss and she doesn't do well.
You know, w you know, working under a doctor, so, what do, what do you think is better? Do you hire or do you hire a brand new one and, and they're green and you hire and train them yourself and, and then hope they catch on and hope they're going to ejector because they have no experience. And you can't afford, in today's world, too, you can't afford bad results.
You don't need any Guinea pigs. You know, your patients don't want to be Guinea pigs you know, training somebody else. So, what, what's what, what would you suggest bringing on a newbie or an� How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Well, it really depends on the type of practice, right? So, we talked in the beginning, we talked about plastic surgeons.
They start their practice and a lot of them aren't as busy as they'd like to be in the, OR doing surgeries. So, to supplement that income, they start doing, you know, non-invasive procedures like injectables. And so, when they first start out, the injectables are some money that's coming in. Their or is not at full capacity.
So, they bring in someone that, well first they don't bring in anybody in, right? They, they're doing it all. Then they start to realize, listen, I need to bring someone in because I don't want to be doing injectables. I'm a surgeon. I belong in the OR. So, you can either have someone who comes in as a newbie, but when they come in as a newbie, you really need to.
Protect the practice. And that means that they need to know that the patients that you're feeding them, meaning feeding the, the injector that those are the practices patients. And how is that, like how do you how do you explain that to the injector is you say, well, Who, when you think of the patient, who is the patient paying?
Is the patient paying that injector or is that patient paying the practice? And just that answer alone is going to tell you it's the patient, the patient belongs to the practice. The second thing that, that when you bring in an injector, even if it's a newbie or an experienced. Is, you know, what kind of social media policy are you going to implement at that time?
A lot of times you see plastic surgery, you see medical, any type of medical spas, they, they allow their injector to have their own Instagram account and the Instagram followers, well, that hurts your... Because that should be under the umbrella of your practice. So, whenever I would hire an injector, regardless if they had a following or not, I would make sure that the social media is under.
Let's say, for example, Smith Plastic Surgery, it'd be Smith Plastic Surgery injectables. So, there is no question as to who those patients belong to. So, going back to, is it a, is it a newbie or is it someone who has a following? Well, that just depends on how much money are you willing to spend. A lot of practices when they first start out or when they're getting going, they can't afford to pay.
400,000 a year. To an experienced with a large following injector or starting at 40 to $60 an hour for a, a registered nurse that's a lot of money. For, for a, for a practice, for a, for a medical spa. So, you really need to look at, well, am I going to pay that person? On a base pay. And what does that mean?
What are the job descriptions and the roles and responsibilities of that employee? Or are you going to have it as an independent contractor? Are they just coming in and you're doing a 10 99 form and you, they log in the hours that they've spent with you, they send you, they give you an invoice, and then you pay off that invoice.
So, there's many different ways to set up an agreement with an injector, but always make sure that your practice is being protected.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I highly recommend when you are bringing somebody on board, have them sign an NDA or a non-compete, and the first thing somebody says is, well, you can't hold those up in court.
It's not, that's not the point. The point is, is if they're not going to sign it, they're telling you right now. They're, they're, it's a yellow flag, a red flag, whatever color you want, That's, that's a clue that they're not thinking the same way you are. And I would also, have them sign the social media policy.
And that means everybody, all photos are watermark and all posts go to this practice. She can't have her own, she's not building her practice on your. You know, in your name. So, or it has to all stay together and if she won't sign, he or she won't sign those two agreements. Then I would say it's a no-go because it'll be, it'll, if it goes sideways.
That kind of stuff gets ugly. Exactly. You know, and you don't need that negativity. But, you know, a lot of this, you do have some responsibility. If you hire the right person, you've got to take care of them and respect them and make them feel part of the team. Because I've talked to plenty of nurse injectors and they feel used and abused and the, the ones that aren't happy, you know, so, it goes, it goes two ways.
I would, I would hire slowly. I also, what do you think about hiring the competitors? Like when the nurse comes to you and says, Hey, I work for your competitor, but I. I'd love to come over to you. How, how would you handle that? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: You know what I it's always a red flag for me, and I'll tell you why, because obviously, or not obviously, but you really need to look and see if they've signed a non-compete clause with the other doctor and.
If, if, let's say, if they have, and they haven't told you about it, you don't need that bad blood between another doctor or another practice. You, we all need to, you know, be amicable, work together, so, to speak. There's plenty of business out there for all of us, and so, we want to, you know, we, we want to be on the up and up as opposed to.
You know, doing something shady and taking on an injector that signed a non-compete clause and an n d A agreement was someone that, that you know, and is, is a neighboring plastic surgeon or medical spa.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And a lot of times if I were the surgeon, I would pick up the phone and call the other surgeon and Oh yeah, one-on-one and just say, you know what?
I just want you to know Susan was in here looking for a job. What's up? You know? Yeah. I, I would just I would be that transparent in today's world because you can head off an awful lot of drama at the front end rather than at the back end when you have to deal. Just a lot of bad blood. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: That's true. That's true. And you also, have to make sure they have active licenses. A lot of times they'll come in and they'll say, oh yeah, I've done this and this and this. Okay, well let me see your license. And it has to be in good standing just to protect yourself. There's a, I mean, sadly there's a lot of. People out there that will say anything, you know, really to get the job, but you really need to do your due diligence as an employer and really find out, okay, you know, did they sign in noncompete with someone else?
Do they have a good standing? Is there license active? You know, you really need to make sure that those references have are clear. Sometimes you need to even to do a background check. In fact, I recommend background checks. Anytime I hire someone.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you a story about that. I was consulting with a group in, I'll just say Texas cause it's big enough that nobody will know what I'm talking about.
And she was a nurse injector there for a couple years. Really resisted my consulting, very much resisted it because I was digging in and asking questions. And long story short, it turns out she had, she had called Allergan a year ago and changed the accounts. So, all of the money that Allergan gives back to the practices was going into her own account.
By the time they found out they were 200 grand out. Oh, and he the surgeon actually pressed charges and somehow, they're still, it was like pending forever. And she had the audacity to get a job with the competitor right there in the neighborhood. And I don't, and the competitor was also, a little on the shady side, I guess.
So, they were meant for each other, but. That surgeon lost so, much sleep over that and so, much negativity and what a shame, like. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah. Well, it's a shame because you start to invest in that, in that employee or that independent contractor, you start training them. You start you know transferring institutional knowledge about your, your practice, about your medical spa, about your organization, and.
It becomes a waste. It all becomes, you know it, it just, you, you don't get that return on your investment. In fact, you lose money as the moment you find out something like that because they're taking all of that out the door.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, another tip would be everything should be set up as a profit center on, on its own because they were such a big practice.
Nobody was noticing. The money was missing because they had a lot of big numbers going. But if they had practiced like a silo, like the injectable silo, the skincare was a silo. The lasers were a silo, they would've caught that much faster. Oh, oh yeah. I highly recommend that. Yeah. Let's talk about pay because it is all over the board.
It matters where you live. It matters what your overhead is. A, a nurse here in California is a joke. It's ridiculously expensive versus maybe, I donβt know, somebody. I don't know, Oklahoma, I'm sure it's very different. Correct? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah, no, it's all over the place when it comes to, you know when it comes to you know, compensation.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, there are so, many different scenarios, but the major ones are usually number one, you either hire them as an employee and you just pay them an hourly period. Right. And they get perks. Cause some of them, like the employee perks, some of them actually are looking for stability. Because they, they've tried to do this on their own.
They've tried to be this, the traveling injector, and it doesn't, it's. Sexy as it seems. Yeah. So, a lot of them are just ready to settle. They want to find a home, they want benefits. They want to just do their nine to five, but make them full-time, that kind of thing. Okay. So, they're employee, right? Another way is to make them an employee but give them less of a base pay and then give them some incentive to go above and beyond that. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Right, right. And so, so, you can start, okay, so, first of all, you can start with just a commission, right? And I recommend that a commission, when you have an experienced injector, who has a, a, a large following, right? Because you are only going to, you are only going, she's only going to get her commission based off of the money she brings in off of the revenue.
The injector generates, right? So, when, let's say, let's say just for example and this is a very low number, but let's just say she brings in your injector, brings in 10,000 a month, right? And let's say you, your, you're base monthly commission based off of a hundred thousand is 18%. So, right there, she's getting 1800 a month, and this is 10,000.
Listen, people can make that in a day, less than a day, $10,000 on injectables. So, right there, right, she's, her annual commission would be, you know let's say $22,000, right? That's her annual commission. Now, let's say sh you have an injector that does 30,000. A month. So, you're looking at the annual revenue generated as 360,000 a year.
Right? So, let's say you increase her, her monthly base commission to 22%. Now you're looking at, she's making 6,600 a month just based off of commission, and her annual commission is about 80,000 a month or 80,000 a year. So, it all, I mean, You know, it, it's all negotiable is what I'm saying. But the, but what we really want to be careful is, is that we don't want to give 40, 50% commission off of.
Generated revenue sales, right? So, you don't want to say, I will give you 50% or 40% off your gross commission because someone has to buy the products, right? Somebody has to buy the office supplies, somebody has to pay for the overhead, and usually that's the practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what when it comes to the money part, because sometimes the doctors get caught up on, I've heard this over and over, I'm going to pay her six figures.
No way. Like all they see is that six figures. But if she was bringing in a million. That that's 10%, that's fine. You know, like, just keep remembering. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: There's a, a, a math problem there, there is a math problem. You want to stay between 18 to 23% on any type of gross commission generated from the revenue coming in.
That, that, that, that injector generates you don't want to go over 25%, otherwise it's not sustainable. It's just not sustainable for the way Iβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, the way I look at it, just generally speaking, when it's all said and done, when you know your costs, you know, your fixed costs, your variable, your commissions, when it's all said and done, if you can keep 25% profit margin, you can't make 25% any more, any, like in the stock market.
So, if you can make it there, because your business is still probably your best business investment, you'll make then I would say it, it's a go. Yeah. If it's anything under that, I would say, You don't need the hassle. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: No. And then, and then you got to think about it too. Let's say you do a base pay. So, let's say you're going to give someone $50 for them coming in.
I would, their commission, I would have between two to 4% commission based on the revenue that comes in. So, here again, we're looking at numbers, right? But let's say you work 24 hours a week on $50 an hour. Your, your monthly salary is going to be over 5,000 a month. And then if you, let's say you generate $30,000 in revenue, you're going to at 4% your base monthly commission's going to be $1,200.
So, add that you're going to hit 14,000, so, your total, total compensations are almost $80,000 for your base pay and your commission. and was that part-time? That could be 24 hours a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. So, yeah, that's part-time because one of the issues I have with the part-time in today's world, you're just trying to get really good at this because it's so, uber competitive now.
You're going to win if you are. A smooth-running operation than if you're not. A lot of money is lost in the processes or lack thereof, right? It's so, difficult to build a team and a smooth operation when people are coming and going, like when they're. They're not there all the time. And team building's really tough when one person's, the prim donna who comes in just twice a day, twice a week, and then Jackson leaves and then the, and they, they're not building a team effort.
So, and I don't know what the answer is. I'm just trying to give the variables. What kind of practice are you trying to. And can you do it with part-timers? And I will tell you it's way more difficult to do it that way. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: It is, it is way more difficult. You can have someone that's, let's say is your sole injector.
And a client that I've had had the, the injector had the L l C, the injector bot. All of the products. Oh. And then, and then gave that plastic surgeon a percentage, right. Of what she brought in. Well, she obviously brought in a million, and then she gave him 400,000 and she kept 600,000. Right. So, and he, and, and the whole thing is he's like, well, I want to build, you know, a bigger injector.
You know, I want to scale my inject, you know, my injector. And she was like, why? What's the point? I'm making good enough money. I don't need to, so, it you, your kind of, there is that, you know that mark there where they lose the incentive. There's no more incentive to build the business. So, you're kind of stuck.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How interesting though, that she, she paid for everything. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: She, yeah, she was a pa and she paid for the, she paid for it all. He didn't want to worry about it. And so, she, and he fed her, all of her patients and, and then she put it under her LLC. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very interesting. I would just say where a lot of it goes sideways is the doctor's not watching the money. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
So, Oh, yeah. I just wouldn't take that car blanche. Oh, okay. Thanks for the 400. Like, I, and, and he, it was almost like a gift, you know, I, yes. That I just would never. Abdicate the accounting, you know, just, yeah.
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: No, you have to count your pennies as a physician, even when you don't have time. You really have to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, yeah, somebody has to because you've got to know, is this a profitable system that we're running here? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah. Your bookkeeping, your accounts receivables. Your accounts payables. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That's the only way to do that. So, that's really interesting. What do you think about Who's medical? If somebody comes in, like a nurse comes in, that who's liable? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Like how liable is a practice for a contractor or like a�
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Right. You know, a contractor needs to, they need to carry their own medical malpractice, right? Because no matter whatever happens, That patient is going to go after the doctor for sure. They go after the deepest pockets and they will go after the, the injector.
They go after both. But I recommend that the injector has also, insurance to help you know, protect the, protect the, the providers.,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say most of them do, and should you be asking that during the hiring process? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yes. Yes, you should. You should be asking for that, especially if they're an independent contractor.
If they're an employee, it's under the preview or the purview of the Of the physician.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you think a lot of them are covered?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Personally, I don't think that, I don't think they are. I don't think they are.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've never heard of it.
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Have you seen it? I don't think they're, I asked for it. I asked, I said, well, what's your medical malpractice?
Oh, well I need to get that. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yeah. Interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. What do you think about the injector? Who's the traveling injector in the area and she works for three different competitors? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Oh gosh. It's, it's, it could be a big Hornet, you know, nest if, if something happens, you don't, you know, it might be a great thing at first, she's going to a salon, but, You know, she also, needs to make sure that the medical director knows exactly what she's doing, where she's going.
The medical director needs to sign off on her charts. It depends on, is it a nurse, is it a pa, is a nurse practitioner? It can be messy in all these different places just because. Well, if they're using an E M R it might be easier, but back in the day when they would have all these charts and then, you know, they'd have to leave the charts there because you really can't take the charts everywhere because you don't want anyone to get into, you know, for HIPAA violations or anything like that.
But I prefer you just stay in one location and if you grow out of that location, then you can have a second location and, and hire someone else to, you know, help you with injecting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we're, we're probably being really negative because, but we want the audience to know that you want to watch out for this because it can be the stickiest relationship.
You have it. Well, next to bringing a partner on, you know, that's another Yeah. Yeah. But my tips would be, hire slowly. Yes. Time. Really know who this person. Mentally, psychologically, reputation, credentials, all know them well. I definitely would do back background checks. I'm shocked at how many shady people there are out there. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Oh, a hundred percent, yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, I've seen some people on mugshots.com for God's sakes. You know, so, I don't know why. Yeah, How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: I know. I shouldn't laugh. I mean, I, I believe you. It's, we're, we're very naive and you know, a lot of physicians and my father's a physician they don't learn business in medical school.
Right. So, they're very trusting people and that's a good part about them. And then it's also, can be very dangerous for them in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and, but they're also, not at all interested in business typically. So, they'd rather abdicate that whole thing and hope it all works out fine. And they just want to know the bottom line, you know, how much did she cost me?
Yeah. So, I, but you know, so, you have to take some responsibility for that. So, I would say the ones that I have seen work the best. Yeah. I will just do this. The ones that work the best, they're full-time. They have very clear. Tasks very clear. It was all done in writing at the beginning. This is what I expect from you.
They signed the non-compete, even if it weren't going to, they signed the non-compete, they signed the social media policy. They were they're told very specifically; all watermarks go on all our photos. We own the patient, obviously, that you can't hold everyone to it, but the more that's discussed upfront, but then treat them like a team.
Don't treat them, don't treat them differently. Don't treat them like a pre-Madonna either. You know, like when they start calling the doctor by his first name because they think they're, you know one-on-one with the doctor. That I would say those are some of the signs. They won't sign anything. They resist anything in the office, like team meetings.
They won't show up for team things. They won't show up for trainings or meetings. They leave early. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Yeah, all of that is red flags. If you have someone that works like that in your office, and I don't care how great of an injector they are they're just not a team player. They don't belong in your, in your, you know, practice it, it creates.
it really creates some kind of toxic work environment because everybody else is going and everybody else's team building and everybody else, you know, is really trying to, you know, make the practice the best that they can possibly do. And then when you have someone who doesn't want to join the meeting or leaves early, comes in late, that's, you know, that's unacceptable.
You, it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you're the injector or if you're the esthetician or if you're the front office person. We all are a team when it comes down to it, and we all rely on each other. And to have a Pri Madonna in your office really is a strain on the other employee.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll give one last tip that I have learned through my own experience. Yes. That injector needs to know that all arrows point to surgery. A lot of the injectors never, they, it's their patients, they protect their patients, but a really good injector works as a team with the surgeon and she or he is the funnel to the surgeon.
So, when I show up in a practice, I want in-house. in her treatment room, and it's all about surgery. Like and the patient who's waiting for their Botox or filler to be, you know, prepared, they look over at a digital photo frame and they see tummy tuck, breast dog, breast lift, mommy makeover. And they're like, what?
So, today they're there for filler tomorrow they could be there for tummy tuck and that. Injector needs to have some type of paper trail. I personally like paper trails. So, she could have a cute little comp card. A comp console card. Yes. And, you know, and she hands it and because the patient looks over and says, wow, can you tell me more about that tummy tuck?
And she said, I can do better. We have we charge the doctor, it costs, you know, $200 to see him for his time, but because you know me, I can get you in there for free. So, here's a comp consult card. Perfect. And literal., there's a paper trail straight from that cord that injector to that surgeon, and now we know that she's working as a team member.
And then the doctor can always give the patient back again to the, to the injector. Like it's such small thinking, thinking, no, no, no, I'm going to keep everything with me. That's not how you work this. You know, a good surgical patient will go up the ladder, back down to nonsurgical, back up to surgical, back down to nonsurgical. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Absolutely. I mean, if you think about it, just like when you say abdominoplasty or liposuction or whatever that patient might be inquiring about, it's, it's imperative for you to refer that patient to the surgeon for many reasons. One that's, they want that result and then that surgeon should refer back to the medical spa, for example.
And let's say do maintenance like m sculpt or cool sculpting use machines that can help maintain the surgery. So, it, it works together. It's not just one, it's not just one procedure over another. for sure. Yeah. And there's also, one other thing that I forgot to discuss about, about injectors is that if you were training an injector and you were doing all this advanced training, which we all know is not, Inexpensive.
It's very expensive to train, especially advanced training. I am, I, I like to implement an aesthetic educational agreement with your injector, and essentially what that means is saying that if I invest in training for you to have to know advanced techniques and to be able to. You know, do I don't know, Russian lips or P D O threads, you are obligated.
The injector is obligated to stay an amount of time with that practice until that training investment has been paid off. So, I think that's a really big we don't really talk about it, but I know like a lot of injectors, they want all this training, training, training, training, training only to walk out the door.
Right. And, you know, you really want to keep them there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, but it's the same thing with that. If they won't sign it, that's a big sign. If they will sign it, it could still go sideways. But at least you, you set the expectations ahead of time, you know? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Exactly, exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Better all the way around. Yeah. So, that pretty much wraps it up. How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Do you have any final words or anything else you want?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: No, I don't, but it's so, great to see you and I, I put a light on me because it just got dark, so. See me. I don't know if you notice. No, I saw that. Oh my God. Is that me in there?
Catherine Maley, MBA: No. I've literally been on these zoom calls where it was getting darker and darker and I'm sitting still and the light is way across the room.
I'm like, I can't get over there. I don't and I just started talking faster. So, Lisa Marie, thank you. So, much for being on. How can people get ahold of you if they want to learn more? How does this relate to the topic of the pros and cons of nurse injectors?
Lisa Marie Wark, MBA: Sure. Okay, so, you can go to my website, www.LisaMarieWark.com. You can email me at lisa@lisamariewark.com, or you can call me.
It's (702) 374-1944.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on the pros and cons of nurse injectors.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Lisa Marie Wark, MD, you can reach out to her website at, www.LisaMarieWark.com.
A big thanks to Lisa Marie for sharing her experience on the pros and cons of nurse injectors.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βPros and Cons of Nurse Injectorsβ with Lisa Marie Wark, MBAβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#nurseinjectors #consofnurseinjectors #prosofnurseinjectors #lisamariewark
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and 6k B&A Photos and Just for Men.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men β with Sam Lam, MD".
One of the biggest complaints I hear is the reluctance of patients to share their B/A photos.
I used to believe that too. Until I met surgeons who have thousands of B/A photos of their patients on their website, on their social media and on Ipads in their office.
How is that possible?
Why can one practice collect thousands and others canβt?
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I let Dr. Sam Lam answer that question for us.
Dr. Lam is a facial plastic surgeon with 20 years of experience in private practice in Plano, TX. He focuses on face and hair transplantation, and still manages to collect lots of social proof from his happy patients, willing to share.
Here are other topics we talked about:
- How to grow a βJust for Menβ component to your cosmetic practice
- How he grew his own 600-video library and use it to market his services
- How his building differentiates him from his competitors (gorgeous)
Visit Dr. Lam's Website P.S. If you havenβt already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and I would appreciate a 5-star review to grow the audience. Thank you!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men β with Sam Lam, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ . I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. Now I have a really special guest today.
It's Dr. Sam Lam. It's Samuel Lam, but I just love his name. Sam Lam. Can't miss that. Now, he's a board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon with 20 years of experience and in private practice in Plano, Texas where he's from actually. He also has a lot of experience with 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ .
So, Dr. Lam completed his undergrad degree at Princeton and his medical degree at Baylor College of Medicine. Then he trained for six years in head and neck surgery at Columbia University. In New York, and then he completed a fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery as well as hair restoration and a "just for men" component to his practice.
Now, Dr. Lam has written over 250 articles, book chapters, and eight major medical textbooks, including the first textbook series on hair transplantation.
So, Dr. Lam lectures. Hair transplant courses all over the world. He's been featured on CNN, CBS, ABC, Fox, and many other media channels. I met him many years ago. He's been on the podium forever around the world talking about marketing. He's a really good marketer, by the way. So, we're going to dive into the business side of your practice and learn more about 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ .
Dr. Lam, thank you so, much for joining me.
Sam Lam, MD: Thanks, Catherine. I appreciate it. I'm glad to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. So, why facial plastic surgery and "just for men"? I always wondered that because when I was growing up, I never heard of facial plastic surgery. I heard of plastic surgery, but how did you land on facial plastic surgery? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, it was it was actually during my otolaryngology residency that a guy gene Tardy, who was my mentor, ed Williams' mentor, and he came in a very patrician guy, very well dressed, and he started talking about rhinoplasty. And I'm an artist at heart. I paint every day and. I just like, wow, this is beautiful.
I mean, my whole life is driven by beauty, and so, even now, 20 years out, I'm probably one of the few guys that do, does his own injections as well as his own surgery. Because I just, I'm just passionate about all of it. I, you know, for me it's, it, it took me from a position where I was doing the same procedures over and over again, and then now every, every patient is different than.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, how, what was your, just quickly, what was your journey from, you graduate, you did your fellowship, you're out, and how did you enter the marketplace and establish a "just for men" component? Did you go to a hospital? Did you go solo right away? How was that journey? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, I had a very nice cushion, and unfortunately from the business side of, of things, it's, it's, it's obviously not something everyone can get.
I, I was literally in and not figuratively, literally my dad's toilet. So, my dad was a family doctor and he had a toilet that I, I needed, I needed. I have an office, so, he took it out and that was my office. So, it was very nice because I lived at home. I wasn't married and, and he basically they covered, my staff, covered everything.
And I was in a very small office for a fam, you know, family doctor in, in Richardson, which is an area that has mainly Asians. I trained a, a few months after my fellowship to learn. Asian cosmetic surgery and the Asians came in and they said, oh, this guy is affordable, which is perfect for me. And other people that were that, that, that were not Asian, were like this guy, I, I, I don't think he can know.
He knows what he is doing. So, I started with him for a couple years. My mom, who was really a Is ne was never a developer, that she is the brains and the vision and the trust in me as a person that I'd even trust and built this at the time was 27,000 square foot wellness building that became 45,000 square feet.
And that's another thing we can talk about, but she really, I would love to take credit for it, but she's the one that built that. And. That's how that in about two years morphed into an amazing, insane center that I would love to take credit for, but I can't.
Catherine Maley, MBA: By the way we're going to talk about it, but you have to go on his website, Lam facial plastics.com and check out the tour.
It's quite impressive and especially the "just for men" component. Yeah, it's right up there with like one of the best I've ever seen. So, how did you divvy up the services? Because are you still doing recons? At all? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Not, not anymore. I, I leave the reconstructive on my website only because its, people love to see that the song, there's a little tag of warning of, yeah, it could be a little graphic.
And I, when I started my practice I said, look, and when I didn't have a lot of rhinoplasty before and after is I said, look, I can put a nose back on the face. And they go, okay, so, I'll, I'll do, I'll let, I'll let you do my nose. So, no, not a lot of recons anymore. You know, some keloids and things like that.
But mainly it's cause β
Catherine Maley, MBA: Then how do you divvy up your time and with your "just for men" component? Because you are getting so, well known for Rhino, but you also, do bleph. I'm, I'm sorry, for hair transplant, right? So, you do a lot of hair transplantation, then some rhino, then some facelifts. How are you? Divvying N And you do your own injectables.
So, how do you divvy up your time? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: So, the way that, that my, my, the, the way the work, the way that the week works is I, I, Monday and Wednesday are my big hair days. So, I do either one big strip or f u e case, then one big one on Wednesday, and that's in the morning. I'm usually done. If it's, if it's a strip procedure, I'm done about 10 30.
If I'm doing an f u e, I'm done about 1230. I, and then I in the afternoons will be consults, injectables, small procedures, blepharoplasties, little things in the office, whatnot. Tuesdays and Thursdays are my big face days. I do either a facelift rhinoplasty fat graft, bluff, whatever may be bigger procedures on those two days.
Thursdays, I may switch out with a hair or I, or vice versa. I may fill in a hair a face on a Thurs on a, on a Wednesday. So, these are just, there's a little bit of flexibility. And then the afternoon's the same thing, small procedures. And then Fridays are my non-surgical days. I usually don't do any big surgeries on that day, and I just, I just, the day just fills in, to be honest with you.
I just go back and forth a little bit here and there and run back and forth.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have a preference for the procedures you like the most, in regards to your "just for men" component? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: I love it all. I, I love it all. I mean, you know, I just, everything is for me is creative and fun and I just, the way, you know, for me, I find that people. They oftentimes surgeons give up the injectables.
They, you know, I understand that from a money perspective, you get someone else to do it, it makes sense. But I love it and I find that there's so, much overdone fillers and great facelifts and that it, it doesn't look right or vice versa. You get really good fillers in bad surgery and doesn't look right.
So, I look at myself as sort of Apple, Inc. I mean, I control the end-to-end user experience. So, I, my patients look good when they come out. I only, things I don't do is like I p l and you know, microneedles and stuff like that, but anything that requires an artistic eye and control, I, I do it all.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, your business model, you've got with your "just for men" component. Yeah. 45,000 square feet of facility. That is remarkable. It's got. More than one water fountain or water flow thing. Oh, dear Lord, if the place is gorgeous, but somebody has to pay for all of that. So, as far as I can tell on your website, you look like the only revenue generator. Who, so, who's on your team helping you make money? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, for my, for my center, it is mainly me, to be honest with you. It's probably not the best business model, but it's a business model that works for me because obviously I know people do better with 10 injectors and everything. Now I have people that do all the non-invasive little small things as we talked about.
There's a lot, I've got a lot of lasers. They do all those things. I don't do any of the. The little laser things, but the vast majority of the revenue comes from me. Now, there are things like, we do this thing called hair stem, which basically it's an infusion therapy instead of p r p that helps with stimulating hair.
There are a lot of little things that are, I, I can't even name so, many little things, but they do all that. But the vast majority of the profit still comes in mind from my hands.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How, how can you, your overhead must be insane and also with your "just for men" component. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, let me clarify. The 45,000 square feet is not mine. I have about 10,000.
Okay. So, so, I've got a, a spa that I, I lease to that's, you know pretty large six, 7,000. I've got a. A huge salon that's across the way. I've got a dentist; I've got a marriage counselor. I've got a person that does eastern cupping medicine. I've got these med suites that's about 6,000 square feet that, that has Ayurvedic medicine hair systems.
I've got, I can't even think of it. There's so, many different things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, those are all tenants. Okay. So, are you the owner of theβ¦ How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Yes. Yeah. And they're tenants.
Catherine Maley, MBA: okay. So, that's actually an incredibly interesting business model, with your "just for men" component. But do you have any control over any of them, or are they just, because I look at them as alliances.
They're a beautiful feeder to you, to what you're doing, or are they, has it turned out to be like a reciprocal but not? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Not as much as, so, I tell, you know, from a business perspective, I tell. Young people coming into this, don't overfocus on that being such an essential element. There are a few reasons. So, first of all, we're all in it for ourselves.
We're driving ourselves. And so, yeah, I send people there. They send me people. I wouldn't say it's necessarily more than from external sources. And then of course, if you've got a salon in your, your space, other salons may feel like, oh, I, they're not going to send me people or vice versa through, so, it's not necessarily.
The most beneficial relationship. I look at it as just a long-term equity play to exit. And, you know, a lot of people are trying to sell their business in a way. I don't even have to. I can retire in my building. So, so, that is, I, if you look at it from a long-term equity play, it's great if you worried about trying to cross feed each other.
Yeah. Okay. But it's not correct. I, and then, and then I, I made some mistakes along the way. I, I owned the Jose Bar Salon that was in my place, and I didn't revenue a lot. And it was great because in the sense I, I learned never to do that again. And I learned that I'm, I just, it's not my blue flame.
It's not the area that I. I'm good at. I don't own the time to manage it, and I own the spa. I, I didn't make much money on the spa. And, and so, now that someone else is, that owns like eight centers in Dallas, they do it. And, and, and when I was initially starting, I was worried about having a. You know, having someone else doing Botox in my building now I've got multiple doing it.
I don't care because I, I've established myself and my med spa offers it. It's, I don't even own the med spa. They, they do their own thing. If they don't refer to me because of it, I'm busy enough right now that I'm not so, worried that I, I'm looking this, that I own the building or my mom owns the building.
To be honest with you, it's, it's, it's to be clear and, and, and the future, I'll own it, but that is something that doesn't worry. That is so, interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you don't have to manage these people. They all have their own separate LLCs or whatever. So, when you sell. Yeah, you are not, you can't sell all of it. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
You can only sell your piece of the practice and everyone else, all the β
Sam Lam, MD: No, no. So, this is not a condo. It's not a condo. It's a, they're, they're rent paying rent, so, they don't own any of this. I, I, I will own the whole building and the real estate, everything. So, they're, so, when someone purchases it from me, they're buying everything.
They're not having to worry about condos at.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Interesting. Wow. That's, wow. Do you have any plans, like how I, you're certainly too young to even think about exiting, but do you have any plans? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, yeah, I mean, eventually what I want to do is sell out and I'll rent from, I'll rent from the owner, you know, because and I'm fine with that, you know, so, I, my exit is not, I'm not, so, I'm, I, I'm not so, worried that I have to exit my business.
I, I make enough revenue from what I do. I'm looking at the building as my. Right. I the real estate. Right. It's the, it's the real estate, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's, there's so, much equity and built up in that after all those, all after years go by. My gosh. Yeah. I think that's a brilliant idea. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
By the way, the real estate, just like McDonald's, it's not about the hamburgers, it's about, but I also, but I also, tell people too, an β
Sam Lam, MD: Are we talking about the business side or is that, have I dive too fast into that? So, the, so, the, the, the thing is, I would, I, I would caution people when they hear that to say, oh man, I'm going to go get this big building and I'm going to do all that. The, the, the very honest truth is you can do really well.
By investing in something else. You don't have to; you can invest in some other real estate. You can invest in some other business you don't have; it doesn't have to be yours. A lot of doctors have this mental idea and including me that we have to own where we work. I think if we can divorce the concept and say, look, if, if it works for you and you got the prime place to where you want to be and it all makes sense, do it.
Otherwise, don't worry so, much. Even if you lease or rent for 10 or 20 years, if you're making good revenue here and you've got a better business proposal somewhere else to exit on, do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think they get such peace of mind from it. I know just being a homeowner, I just have a lot of peace of mind that nobody can kick me out.
I control my destiny there. And it's like a little ATM machine if you ever need it, cause the equity's there. So, I see why they do that and be, especially in today's world, I don't know how many young guys can join you and buy you out. I mean, I don't like who's going to buy you out. I you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: That's, that's exactly the case.
And so, that's why I'm not quite as worried about that exit, which is a different mindset. You know, my, my building is my exit. It's not, now, of course, I'm going to have someone come in and groom and, and build into the thing, or maybe it goes to VC at some point. I don't even know. But right, right now I'm not so, worried about that exit as, as important as, as the other component.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What about the surgical center? Is it, is it as big of a deal as the office looks like? How many suites do you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, so, for, for the surgery center, I started with only one because it was for me. And so, what I do now is I have sort of two And so, let me explain what sort of means I do. One of the rooms is I, I build for my hair, hair, hair transplants.
I don't need general anesthesia for it. It is completely med Gass ready to go. And so, what happens is I have a, a plastic surgeon that does body work does some face, but he basically does like 99% body work. And he comes in and the days I do hair in that, in the hair room, he uses. The surgery center to do the body stuff.
And then, you know, if in the future if I get busy enough or I want to exit on that, or I want to sell this as a surgery center, then I can easily, basically, it's ready, it's, it's ready to get it's gassed. I just need to put in a general anesthesia machine to do that if someone wants to do that. So, As a separate entity, as a profit center, profit center to sell that out.
Right now, it's not built in for that. It would make a lot of sense. I did have discussions with the plastic surgeon to come in as a tenant and, and to buy over time some shares on the surgery center. You know, a lot of physicians are very risk averse. They just don't see that as something that makes sense.
But it's a no-brainer for me for where he was going to come in and do that. But, you know, it's, I, I'm not sweating it, you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that plastic surgeon, your business arrangement with him, is it, is it completely, he rent some space and that's it? Or do you have a, a relationship? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: No, he just comes in and uses my, my center and so, I, he is just using dead, dead air, so, to speak, you know?
Gotcha.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I mean, I, I've, I've seen it go both ways. I've seen the surgeons who have put millions into a multi suite or thinking that the surgeons in the area will come to him, you know, to come do surgery there. That was way more difficult than they ever expected. They had, they had to go out of their, like the plastic surgeons wouldn't come, so, they had to go with orthopedic surgeons or, I mean, they, they scrambled, you know, to build a time there and it was just one more big headache that they had to manage.
So, I've just heard such mixed reviews, like sometimes they were sorry, they ever got involved and they should have just kept it small. Like any thoughts aboutβ¦? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: You know, I mean, to be honest with you, you need to have good people working around you to help you. So, if you are going to do that, the problem with cosmetic work is you don't, it, it, you don't make money on that from a surgery center.
You need, if you really want to make money on a surgery center, you need insurance. And the problem with that, that's a whole different level and it depends on what level you want to take it. A friend of mine does bariatric work. He's got a great surgical facility that does all the insurance stuff.
For him, it makes sense because he does insurance. But if you're a cosmetic guy. I, I think if you are, unless if you want to go into the surgery center business, then you got to go into, from an insurance perspective, if you really want to put plastic surgeons together, too many egos going around. There's no compensation at the level of a, of a surgery facility.
It just makes no sense to me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I did watch somebody in California many years ago. He, he was, 6 million building the place out as he's building California. Took away all the insurance for breast reduction and workers comp and all of that. It just changed overnight. And he's like, crap, what am I going to do?
And that really hurt a lot. And then somebody else came in and decided to do all the transgender. Yeah. And in California, I couldn't believe this, but they were. Transgender patient was insured by up to a hundred grand for, you know whatever it is whatever you call it. Genderβ¦? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Gender, affirmation, surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's a huge business, so, It just depends, you know, like where, where you want to go with that. But it did, it completely destroyed his cosmetic side. Mm-hmm., because it's a completely different world. It's a different patient, it's a different emotional background. And it, it, the two did not gel at all.
But when you just take that piece of it, the transgender part of that, I've watched some practices just crush it. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: There's, it's so, many, there's so, many right answers and wrong answers to everything.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, do, do you plan on ever like, bringing in another person? Another? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: No, no. I, I actually have the physical space for it now.
I just don't have the bandwidth. The problem, honestly, several things. Number one is staffing has been a nightmare the last two years. Just trying to make sure that I'm, I'm having. Staffing for me has already been very difficult. So, until that part of the equation is solved, the answer is no. The other thing to me right now is you know, there's, I, I need to find, I think, you know, ed always told me, ed Williams always told me, he says, don't bring someone on board unless you're willing to slow down.
Yeah. Or exit on it. And I'm not either one. I, I really love what I do and I, I don't run a crazy business where I have to. I am running all over the place, but I, I don't do, I do like two to three transplants a week, two to three major surgeries a week, and a ton of small ones. And then of course, a ton of injectables and I'm happy, so, I just don't have the room or bandwidth to have someone come in right now, you know, maybe in the future for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But it sounds like also, you're trying to do work-life balance. You know, you're not, you are not going to kill yourself doing this. And, and I'm so, glad you know that because some do. And., I don't know if this made them any happier, but they're grinding, you know, they, they, they've been grinding for 20 years, so, you know, the answer's whatever's right for you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: For sure. Absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Gosh. All right, so, we have to talk about actually, let's just talk about staffing for a second. Sure. It has been universally. The biggest issue ever. It always was an issue like, isn't staffing like your biggest challenge of running a practice, but now due to whatever has happened in the world, it's just gotten so, difficult to find people, not find people, good people you know, who want to work and who are dedicated. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
So, any tips on what has been working for you?
Sam Lam, MD: I have an amazing director who manages all this, first of all. So, I don't and of course it's, the thing is she's so, well connected in the community. She finds a lot of friends. Of friends. Of course, that's the best way to get people here. But that's not even enough.
It's too still too dry. Of course, indeed has worked really well for us. But there is no easy way to do it. It is, it is a slog. And I, I, I wish I could give you a good tip. That would be a pearl. No, there isnβt.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's, well, didn't everybody, I think half of the state of California left because we're so, crazy here right now.
And a lot of them went to Texas. So, did you feel a big rush of. Californians coming over. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Yeah. I mean, from a real estate perspective, they've all come here to take over homes and things like that. So, from a business perspective, it definitely has, has helped us. I mean, I think that everyone has felt a really good plus, I mean, not everyone, but a lot of people have felt a really good plus during the pandemic time.
But now as inflation soars and everything else is going up, there's definitely been a drop in the last six months. And I think things are trending and not in a good way. Everything's a cycling. I mean, I, I'm not so, worried long term. People want facelifts. People want hair transplants and, and it's just little bumps in the road, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it is cycles. We were both around for the recession and the comeback and all the crazy that goes on, but it's very cyclical. It just is. So, let's talk about marketing, because I used to say, Hmm, how do, could you possibly differentiate yourself from everybody else? Number one, your building.
Killer. That is unbelievable. How long did it take to build that thing? Two years. Right. I it's amazing. Did you have that vision, like the, and you call it something like the Wellness Center, right? How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Well, you know, I had a vision for the Wellness Center, but I, it really, I, I, I would love to sound like an arrogant person and to come up with this, but my mom.
Is an amazing business person and you should interview her. Not me, I guess. No, but she, she really, honestly had a lot of trust in me to do this. And we built a lot of the stuff at a time where, you know, like right now, building is built, anything is crazy. I mean, it's, it's, you don't, you want to, you know, buy low and sell high.
I mean, I, of course, if someone's building right now, go for it. It's, it's, it's great. But my God, it's, it's a tough time. And we just built at a very low time. I mean, the land was dirt cheap here. This in 2001, you know, it was just after some after nine 11 there was some depression. The marketplace.
The Tomans who owned the mall across the way that has had been up and down and still up and down. Unfortunately, right now with Covid post, post Covid, they wanted to, to get rid of stuff and, and so, it, we just be, we're just very lucky that Texas has, has grown so, much. But the thing with real estate too, is that it, it's not a surefire bet.
It's not that just because. You think, well, it's real estate, it's real. And then you're, you're going to grow. Not every area grows, you know, and not everything multiplies in huge degrees. So, there is risk with that, you know? But we are just very blessed that the area we chose was like amazing. It's the, the huge corridor of growth right here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. I did own some single-family homes in Austin, Texas. Yeah. Before, of course I sold at the wrong time, but I, I, it was there's no money in that, quite frankly. They, there was no equity like you can build out here in California. Like, like it just, and it was difficult to manage, but I just remember thinking, wow, this place, it's so, dirt cheap to buy real estate away from California.
Sure. But then when you sell, well now they're the place, I mean, actually one of the houses, like the houses were They, during Covid, they jumped up to like over 400,000 in what I had bought it for. And it's like, gosh darn, I didn't see that coming at all. But here was the big, the big one for Texas is they get you on the property taxes.
Oh, of course. Like my property taxes like tripled one year and I thought, wait a second. I didn't account for that. And so, it just didn't, financially it didn't make sense, but do you find that. Because somebody's got to pay for all of this stuff somewhere along. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Yes, yes. No, property taxes are terrible in Texas.
There's no doubt. Get someone to negotiate it for you. That's pretty obvious. I've got, I've got, someone negotiates my commercial. I've, and the same guy negotiates my home and everything's negotiable. So, Nice. That's good. That's actually a good rule for everything. Everything's negotiable,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. By the way, what's your commute like from your home to you. How has this impacted your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: In the morning, it's eight to 12 minutes and home it is 12 to 30 minutes, and it's, it, the 30 minutes has really gotten crappy now because sometimes I just deal with traffic. I never had to deal with that. I don't know what's going on, but I, I you know, Tony Robbins calls it no extra time or net and I learn languages when I drive home, I do audiobooks and I, fortunately, I, I mean, I, I can absolutely concentrate and learn a language, but I don't like wasting time.
So, I, you know, I don't even feel the commute.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, I just think a as I get older commuting, commuting has become, I, I, I won't do it. I just, I, I just, I think it's not good for your peace of mind or your productivity or your just your, I just, it's just so, nice. I mean, I, I've noticed also, surgeons will start moving closer. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: There's a book by Jonathan Hy called The Happiness Hypothesis. Oh, he said that it's an actually, the farther you live from your, it's directly related how f farther you live from your workplace. And the longer your commute, the less happy you are.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Isn't that true? Although, you know, now we all listen to podcasts all the time.
I can listen to those all day long. I still don't like be being forced to sit still. That that's my, I'm just too a d d about that. Anyway. So, so, regarding marketing, you were, you were one of the very first people I ever met who got into video. Yes. And we were at the medical conferences, been going to those for years.
And you always had your camera up there, and I thought, good for you. And you were, you got really good at it, and you were the only one doing it. And then now the whole world has jumped in and they're doing it. But how much did that help you to be at the still? All of that? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: All of it does. All of it does. I, I think that, you know, I'm definitely not the leader anymore of this, of this space.
People are doing great work that I, I'm not doing that, but there's no doubt that on a daily basis it's the it's the videos, the podcasts, the just patience getting to know you. I mean, just, you know, you, you know, and the great thing is lecturing and filming your own, I film my own lectures.
That's been huge thing. People just go, oh my God, this guy is such an authority. But I come across pretty good on, on stage. And so, you know, if you're, if you're not a good lecturer or you're nervous or something, then of course that is not good. But, you know, I feel very, people feel authenticity as you talked about as, as you've, as you have talked about that, that is an important element and there's just a connection.
So, videos are still critical, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what's working for you? I, your Instagram looks fantastic. Your YouTube channel looks fantastic, although on YouTube it definitely looks like you're doing hair transplantation. Yeah. Like are, are you, is it meant to be that, like are you trying to, I can't tell if you're like trying to get away from facelift and Rhino or, or like putting all your eggs in the hair. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: You know, it's, I, here's the thing from a lecture perspective, I, I just, what happens is in the world of lecturing, you get boxed into a certain category and you like, am I, am I doing huge advances in necklaces? No. I'm following what Mike Nig is doing with network. And so, I, I get podcasts about that.
I talk about it, but I am not, I don't feel comfortable going on stage and say, look, I've innovated something. Whereas with hair, I am always on podium. You know, I have written now so, many books on hair transplant and I just am having another one come out next year. So, for me, I think a lot of it may read that way because of the academic stuff.
But the one thing that I will. Is that, you know, with long tail strategies of just putting videos up there, people are searching stuff and whatever comes up, they fi figure that's what you're, what you do. And so, I'm not so, worried about a composite location where they have to follow you, but when someone follows, finds something that I, for example recently I've been doing a lot of osteos and people find me because of all my videos in osteo.
They don't care how to do hair. They don't care how to do a facelift, but they find me because they're looking for the word osteo. They're looking for the word bone on the forehead or boney lesion on the forehead. And, and so, I think that if so, long as I keep throwing different things out there, it's great, but sometimes, you know, there's a lot more stuff about hair because I have a lot of, I do a lot of hair and I'm always on podium.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know well there's something else you do that's really smart. I look at websites and digital presence from the consumer point of view. And if I was somewhere and I saw I wanted to talk about a facelift, and when I click on facelift, when you show up, you send me to a web page. That's all about facelift and it has everything there.
It has to be before, after photos. It explains things. It has diagrams, it has many videos of you. It has video testimonials about facelift. You are not making me click all over the place. I don't have to go to galleries, then I have to go to video testimonials. Then I have to go to learn more about the procedure.
It was all there on one page and I don't, I tell everybody, you guys make this easy for the consumer. Give them what they want in one shot because they're not going to click like they used to, you know? So, boom, whoever's doing your website, I think they are doing it. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: That was my idea. Go. Brilliant. So, the recent thing I just recently did is I, I had shot about it a couple years ago.
What are I call virtual consultations where I just, I basically the same thing I say every day. And now I move that up to the front of the page because that's really the, you know, where people want to know, like, what is the procedure, what's the recovery, what's the, what's the risk, what's the limitation?
What are the goals? Anyway, so, I, I've now flagged that as my top one, and then everything follows from there. And I. And the other thing I've done with before and after is, which I've tried to do is people. They don't want to go to a new page, they want to scroll. So, what I've done with my before and afters is I have one page scroll for like if it's rhinoplasty or whatever it may be.
You just keep scrolling down and in that way you don't. You, if you want to stop, you stop. And then what I've done with the before and afters is they're swiping left and right. So, now you basically, what's a tap it? The swipe didn't work as well, but you, you go through all your videos and everything related to that one patient on, on a horizontal bar and then vertically.
There. It's all in that one category. Of course, I've also, got subcategories. So, if you're looking for ethnic hair restoration, ethnic rhinoplasty, whatever it may, that's specific, you'll, you'll go into, dive deep into that category as well, besides a general one. But that whole, you know, finger left to right and depth and down has also, been helpful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. By the way, you have 600 videos, but 6,000 before and after photos and more patient video testimonials than I've ever seen. How are you making that happen when everybody else says, oh, my patients are so, private, they won't talk about this. How? How do you make that happen? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: So, first of all, I, I'm a good salesperson, so, I'm the one in charge of it.
So, basically what happens is the way I first look, I have the patient, I have the staff put up the before and after for me, before I walk in the room, if it looks mind blowing, I'll walk into the patient's room and say, wow, you got to see this before and after. It's amazing. So, they'll see it and then I'll ask the, just like, if you want to date a girl, if you don't ask, you don't go out with her.
So, or a guy, whatever it is. So, I, I asked the patient, would you. Mine to, to do this. And if they say, well, I don't know, usually at that point I ask the simple question, is it privacy? Or what is, or what's the reason? If they say it's privacy, I, I don't, I don't push a testimonial, whatever it may. So, let's say they say yes.
So, then from that, yes, I go to, I go to, well then you do a video, will you do a review? Will you do all these things so, I can capture all of it and then use it in all different platforms? If it is a no, it's a privacy issue, then I ask. When you do review, can I use part of the image? How about what if I, if it's autoplasty, can I black out your face and just use the ears?
Can I do you know, if it's a hair, can I just do the hairline? Can I just do the eyebrows? Can I just do the eyes? Can I do the nose with the eyes blacked out? I try to negotiate what privacy allows and., if it goes toward the, yes, I can use it before and after is of course, the natural question I just mentioned is can I shoot a video?
And they'll usually tell me, they may tell me, no, I'm not ready. I don't accept that. I, I will, what I do is I just take, now I just use my phone and I take a little plugin thing with a wired mic to the us to the, the lightning cable. Clip it on them and put it on cinematic modes. So, the backgrounds.
Hold it up this way and just. So, I'm ready to roll because, and I, and I tell them this, I say this is the way I coach them. I'll say, pretend I'm your best friend, Susan, or whatever your best friend's name is, and I'm scared to do this procedure. I'm interested. I don't know about it. Talk about why you wanted this done.
What is, you know, how, what was the experience with the staff? What was the experience with the surgery? How was the discomfort recovery? What did you feel about it? What do you think about your results? How's it changed your life now? And I said, you can say all that, or you don't have say any of it, just.
Don't worry about it. And if you forget something I will crop it, cut it, and do, and they never forget. And if they do, then at the end, let's say, they'll say something and then I, I stop the filming and then they say, oh man, you know what? I forgot. I is, I, I wanted to say how lovely your patient coordinator was.
She just really made me feel, I said, okay, hold on sec. I'll take the, the phone. I'll say, okay, start with this. Say, you know, I forgot to mention something, and then say what you want to say, and then I'll just splice it on iMovie and I'll stick in a before and after onto my thing and just upload it myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now the big Pearl there is you ask, you ask, you don't delegate or advocate you, you ask. The patient's much more likely to say yes to you than somebody else in your practice, and you're making it very easy for them to do that. I will tell you though, people who are not used to video, they, they get scared when something is put in front of their face.
So, I would try to come up with, I don't know, maybe like a big whiteboard with five things like. This is what the pain is, what I was in, like, the pain I was in. This is why I chose Dr. Lam. This is why you're going to want to choose him. This is what my journey was like with the staff and the, and the surgery.
This is how great I feel now, and I wish I had done it sooner. If you could somehow, like give them a few pointers. In other practices, what they've done is they a, they're interviewing them. So, they'll, you know how when you do an interview, the. Reporter says, so, I'm going to ask you, oh, so, how did you hear about Dr.
Lam? And then I say, oh, I heard about Dr. Lam through da da da. So, a lot of them just need some coaching that they're just scared, you know? So, you know, if you can help them with that, but whatever you're doing is working because I've never seen so, many video testimonials. Very good. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: You know what's interesting is that they, they tell me they're scared and they need a script or something, and they never need one.
They just go for it. Yeah. And it's really interesting that, and the other thing I'm worried about with any pointer pointed stuff is if their eyes dart off. Yeah., like they're reading a script. Right. Cause I really want them to be focused on that. And I tell them, look, the thing that makes it easy is I'll hear that.
I'll hear the complaint that, Hey, I'm nervous I don't do this. And I'll say, Pretend you're talking to your friend. I love that. And I will edit it. Don't worry about it. Just keep talking. Just tell me and I'll say, you know what, and this is the other thing I'll say, I'll say, it can be 10 seconds. It can be 10 minutes.
Talk about whatever you want to talk about. I've given you some ideas. If you don't want to talk about the recovery, don't talk about it. Talk about. You know, what did you pretend you're having a conversation with your friend. You don't need a cue card for that. Just say, you know, why did you want this done?
And how has it changed your life? And those are the words I say, how does it change your life? And then that usually gets them clicked in and they're so, emotional about it, they'll just go off. And what that fear level is, it goes away. Yeah. You know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. What's the timing on that? Because I have watched practices wait too long.
Yeah. There's a, there's a, a sweet spot when a cosmetic patient has been transformed and they're totally emotionally attached to it. And then there's the point where they, they, they're used to it now, and so, the emotion is gone or the passion like it was there. Is there a certain time. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: The timeframe is always, and I, and so, let me explain, is like, you know, sometimes a patient doesn't follow up with you, so, what you thought was going to be a good time is not.
And people want to see a patient a day out, they want to see a week out, they want to hear from them all over the time. So, when I, if, if I like the before and after, that's usually one. If, if I, if. That's usually one of the catalysts that I have. The other catalyst is just thinking about it, thinking, you know what?
This is a really personal person, let's just do it. Or if the person's from out of town it's like, let's just shoot it right now. And, and sometimes what I'll do is like, I had a guy this week, I, I just put on a hair transplant one, I remembered him doing a video, so, I already got the consent. I already knew he; he was comfortable.
They already told me how great the experience was. So, I went and he was six months out. He had a lot of hair growth at that point already. So, what I, when did I shoot the first one? A day after the procedure. And so, when did I shoot this one, six months out? I could shoot another one at, at one year. So, that same patient is giving me at least 2, 3, 4 testimonials.
So, it's endless, you know? And then that is a great long tail because it gets spa smattered all over the, the.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. The and the reviews, do you handle that the same way or do you do that differently? Are you, are you asking for everything all at the same time? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Like, I, I. I usually do, my staff usually handles a review.
I, I don't, I'm not necessarily a hundred percent happy with the way that I'm been taking the reviews, to be honest with you. So, I can't a hundred percent advocate it. But we use a little doctor.com thing where they type in a little review and I don't know if I don't even, I haven't checked my case, I probably shouldβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: But if you have like two 50 or something, you have a good rating. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Yeah. Good. I don't even know, to be honest. That's terrible to say that because I should know everything, but I. Check it because sometimes make a bad one or whatever in there. Right. You know, and I just, I don't, you know, I, people ask, you know, how do you, I have one guy ask me, he said, how do you., you know, handle like a bad review.
I said, look, I, I don't read it. I just live my life and do good work. And then there's going to be a bad review. And those give more authenticity to the whole thing. But you know, it's going to happen, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I want to ask about marketing for different target markets because that's getting more and more difficult to be the best at a rhino, the best in a facelift, the best at hair transplantation.
How do. How do you figure out the branding of all of that? Because you can, when you specialize, you can charge more. People will come in from all over the world because you're the best at that one thing and you've done that really a good job with that, with hair transplants. But is that what you wanted?
Or how do you market to the young rhino patient, but then turn around and market to the man who needs hair? Then how do you turn around and the more mature woman who needs a facelift, those are such different target markets. How are you handling. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: For me, it's always been the video because as I said, people, it's Google just sticks them up there and then when you see a 36-year-old deep necklace.
People relate to it and whether it's on Instagram or somewhere else, but people just, they, they, they relate to the story. They relate to the before and after they relate to the person, and then they just find more like that their brain naturally proclivity, you know, has a proclivity to find people like themselves.
So, that's one thing. And you know, I divide my website into those, those ethnic divisions. Know African rhinoplasty and, you know, all those key terms and African hair or I don't even remember now. Yeah, it's like traction, alopecia, black hair loss. So, I have all those, those ethnic and gender divisions on my website, but then I lump them.
So, I've got all male, all female. And I try to split all that up and then I've. Ron, I have a rhinoplasty website. I've got a hair website; I've got a face website. And you know, soon I probably will develop a, a, a facelift website. But those micro sites that I know now is not as in, in vogue, but people want to see your specializing something, so, that helps as well.
And then they're universal truths, things that just make it different. Like with, with hair. I have a, a joint commissioner credit facility, so, I knock them out, so, there's no. And, you know, I talk about their experience being better off, of how, and just I think the key is if you don't, if you're not good at speaking, public speaking, no one is to start, right?
You're nervous the first time you're on stage. I'm, I was nervous the first time on, on stage. Just keep doing it. And the more comfortable you get in front of the camera just talking and not worrying about what you're saying. And you may flub and you go, oh my God, I forgot to say that. I'm going to say this.
People feel that authenticity and they connect with you and they want. You become this kind of pseudo celebrity and then they walk in, they feel comfortable with you, and that's the real connection. You can have as many before and afters and, and no videos. You can have as much text and then without the video connection.
People need to connect with you before they come and see you. Of course, you have to have before and afters. You have to have great before and afters, not average ones, but you need to connect and there's no other way to do it than with you. The voice is going.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I believe with everything going on with SEO and Google and apple and privacy and all of that.
Video is. The way in today's world to market. So, anybody who is afraid of video, I always say just do it at home. Just get the phone in front of you and the iPad in front of you. Get used to it, like find your voice. When I was much younger, I knew I was going to be a public speaker. I couldn't even say my name without forgetting it.
And I went to Toastmasters for one whole year, every Tuesday. I went to Toastmasters in a loving group who like never criticized. We were all always very positive with each other. And that's where I found my voice and thank God, because I wouldn't be where I am today if I had not gotten over that public speaking fear.
Totally. And so, it's, it's totally surmountable. You just have to do it, you know? I agree. I want to talk about the, the mindset part. When I first met you, and I don't know if you'll remember this, but it was probably 15 years ago and it was a Greg Morgan Ross meeting and it was in at Stanford and in California.
And you were a very different person then. And you were, I, there is no nice way to say this. You, the, the impression I got was so, you were so, arrogant. I think you literally said to. You don't know who I am, you know, like one of those things. And, but you are a great dancer. And, and then I hadn't seen you for a couple years.
Next thing I see, I've never seen a surgeon transform as much as you had. You had lost a ton of weight. Yeah. You, you had a whole new aura about you. You were smiling and engaging and I almost didn't recognize you. And then you gave a talk and it was about, The old you and the new you, and it had to do with you had some bad reviews, you know?
Yeah. Do you want to just tell that story because that was amazing. You just became this amazing, beautiful person. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: I mean, there's so, many components to evolution, right? Because I, I, I've evolved over 20 years of practice and, and also, my life. And you know, when you're, for me being Asian, I, I was picked on a lot as a kid.
I got a lot of fights as a, as a teenager. Not proud of that. But you know, in the eighties was a different time. I think today there's racism is much more subtle. It's, it's very un under undercurrent rather than, than, than. Than basically in front of you. So, I think I had, I dealt with a lot of inferiority complex about being an Asian male, my sexuality, my, you know whatever it may be.
And that confidence sometimes comes out as that in that lack of confidence comes out as arrogance when it's not meant to be. And also, he is, you know, a young person trying to prove himself that doesn't know his, his salt pushes, pushes the, pushes things very hard. But yeah, bad reviews. Humble you.
I had a guy that I. Did a hair transplant on and at six months he had poor growth. Back then it was even before regenerative medicine that was available to try to build faster growth. And he just said he was going to sue me for a quarter million dollars and he was going to put a sign, sign outside and post against everything.
and I made a lot of bad judgment errors at that time. I first ha let my staff handle this situation, which is a mistake I should have handled myself, and I know ways to, to circumvent that better now, not a hundred percent obviously, but that was one of the issues. So, it just, it, it humbles you when you get slapped in the face and you start to realize, hey, you're not all that, and.
You know what people's opinion of you are going to fluctuate. They're, they're going to think you're great or not great. And, you know, it's, it's not it's not about you. And, and, and, and many, many issues with that in terms of weight loss. The, the honest truth is just, I, I lived in New York and I walked all the time and ate like a New Yorker.
And now you get moved to Texas and I ate like a Texan and I, and it was bad. I ate a lot and I, and it was, you know, I just got fatter and fat. But it, that was, I think all of it is just this evolution of finding yourself men mature later than women. I think, you know, there's a, a component where I didn't get married.
I mean, I didn't get married until my mid to late forties. And you know, still trying to find myself, I don't think I was the right. Spiritual, psychological emotional, physical level to get married. Whereas I think women are, are much more mature than men faster. I have kids now. I, I have four and a two-year-old in my early fifties.
And I, I'm, you know, it's great. I, I was watching the Sebastian Maniscalco thing. He says, he calls it lay and play where he lies down and, and basically as the kids run over, that's basically me because I'm old and tired. But I think a large part of this is humbling yourself, you know, and realizing that that life is fun.
You know? It is, it's incredible and it's, and, and the other thing that's really important you know, I'm, I'm a spiritual person. I believe God has given us a lot of this stuff. You know, when, when we're arrogant, we think we have so, much talent it, it's not the truth. I mean, to be honest, like I told you, look who built this.
I could easily say like, I built it, I did it, I did this. I didn't, so, why should I say that? Because I didn't. And the, the truth of the matter is we are given so, many opportunities, like with hair. Great example. Amina Vance, who came into my life, and he, she was ed Williams she sorry, Ed's coordinator was Susan Sullivan.
No Ed's hair transplant coordinator at the time that he was doing a lot of hair said, you got to meet this one, I mean, advanced when you go back to Dallas. And I said, okay, whatever. I met with her and, and, but it, it turned out to be this amazing relationship over 20 years. Now she's like semi-retired, but she's working on this new book with me for next year because we are an amazing team and, and you start to realize stuff that you suck.
and if you are transparent with that suckiness to the people around you, they know it already. You know, it's, it's, it's obvious. And if you try to pretend that they don't know, then it's even worse Just. Know what you suck at. And for, for, for her and me, we're very different. And my wife and I are very different in, in really good complimented ways.
I'm a really good visionary. I'm really good at artistic design and understanding big pictures. I know where I. Need to get better. I, I can write really fast. I, I, I, I wrote my last book in literally two months. I shot a hundred videos for this book and, and, and over four months all with no, no time at home, away from my family.
It's all done very, very efficiently in microseconds of time between patients. But I'm really bad at looking at quality control, little details like what Amina's done, even with this textbook, for example, is come back and, and just shredded it. I mean, the last book chapter on recipient migration, I thought, I was like, this is amazing.
She like shredded it, redlined it, put a new image, diagrams like, wow. So, the point of this is that we're given all these amazing relationships that in our life that make us look really good. Like, Hey, I'm the hair guru, right? I just. Lifetime Achievement Award. They've only given 20 some awards out for this golden fall.
I got it. But you know what, it's because I've got an amazing team around me that has made me look amazing. It's, it's not just because I'm all that in a bag of chips. So, I mean, those, that's, that's a long and short of it, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But didn't you also, take up like yoga and meditation and it like what I did a lot. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: You know, for me it was very if, yeah, my spiritual journal journey is another story, which is really interesting. So, I can dive into that for a little while. You know, seeking for what's. Real at the end of the day. Right. So, for me, yoga meditation was a huge part of my life in my mid to late thirties, early forties.
And then if you want to hear something weird, I I'm, I, I really had no faith in God at nothing. I, in my early forties, I was trying to run this marathon, this half marathon, I was sick and me. Tenant said, you know, you got to meet this guy. Like, well, whatever, I'm sick. I don't want to meet this guy.
So, I, I, and he says, no, he, he doesn't, I doesn't mind come his come, you know, come meet. They're fine. So, I was lying down in this treatment room. I, my, my, I was down, face down and his partner, his like business partner was doing acupuncture on me. And then it turns me over around and he's, he's, he's this sort of like Catholic monk type of guy.
I don't know what he is, but he, he's putting the needles in me. and I immediately started crying for 90 minutes. I said, God, have mercy on my soul. Wow. And I was, I, I was a Christian growing up, but I lost my faith in college. I was a history major. I saw man's inhumanity, man. So, I was seeking something spiritually to fill that void.
And for me it was yoga meditation for many years. And then I became a Christian again, I guess, or however you want to say, it returned my faith, not by any volitional effort. It was, I believe God came into my life because I was. I was I just believed it was like lightning struck and that occurred in my mid-forties.
And so, it's that journey of, of that spiritualism helps me, anchor me, and I think it's something I've always wanted. And I saw it through different avenues and things and then, and God, that, my God that came to me transformed me, not by me. So, that's, that's the spiritual side of things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. God and I are really tight. I don't know how you get through life without having that foundation. There are just too many things that I don't believe in coincidences anymore., sure. But a lot of that takes maturity because you've tried every external thing on the planet to make yourself feel important and significant.
And eventually you, I think you just finally get there and say, you know what? It is what it is. I, I hope you like me, but if you don't, I'll, I'm okay with that because it's just too hard to keep singing and dancing for everybody else, you know? I agree. So, congratulations. I have, I have watched you through the years going, what happened?
I, I want whatever he got, because you can tell you're so, comfortable with yourself now, and that's all it was. It was just insecurity. That's what we're all doing, you know, fighting our insecurities. And I thought, oh my gosh, he has just, I've never seen anything like that before, so, I really appreciate. So, I always ask at the end like, tell us something we don't know about you.
You really were a great dancer. H where'd you learn that? And then this art, you're not kidding that your art is serious art. So, tell us about that. Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: It's my passion. I was, it, it, I was, I was doing a lot of abstract work. Now I'm recently doing one because my wife has asked me to do it, but I've always been.
Fascinated with, with art and design and museums and everything. And initially when I did my first textbooks, they just, the, the publisher said, look, hey, I, too, to get the book deal signed. I said, I'll do my own drawings. And I didn't know what I was doing and I finally did it all digitally and they came out okay.
But in the last few years, I started to really move from abstraction and started to trust my hand. And I've dived deeper and deeper into rep representational work. And every morning I get up, I work out and I paint before I go to work. And it's this part of this if you will call the meditation side.
It's a meditative part of my life and it is amazing. And I encourage all of you guys to, to paint. Now, I don't know. I love it. And I, I, I learned it through YouTube during the pandemic. The pandemic was great because I spent that time watching some YouTube videos and learning and go to Patreon. If you haven't done Patreon, It's not well organized, but it's, it's, it's, it's YouTube and Patreon are ways to learn everything.
My God, I learned all my artistic techniques through that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you selling your artwork? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: No, but I recently donate. I was the chairman last year for this Dallas County children's advocacy center, which is to help with child abuse cases horrible child abuse cases in Dallas County.
And I was the honorary chair with my wife. And, you know, it's, it's an art for advocacy where they. You donate you, you people, artists donate pieces and I said, I'll donate my piece. And I've never, and it was great because I never met all these community of artists, but bam, I made, I made friends with those artists and my piece sold like in five minutes for max bid, which is you can buy it for twice the whatever.
They, they forced me to cap it. 10,000, I sold it 20,000. So, so, I, I sold that, if you will count that. But it, it, it, it all goes to charity. So.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow. Somebody buy for $20,000? Is this reflected in your understanding of 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ ?
Sam Lam, MD: Yeah. And so, next year, this, this year, excuse me, this is 2023. Now I'm going to do a 10-foot piece that my goal is to do this on the live auction.
So, out of 80 pieces, they allow five for the live auction. They turned me down last year. My arrogance said that I should be on the live auction, but this year I'm going to really, I said, I told them, look guys, I've sold this thing in five minutes, and even all the other artists said, Bottom told me this was like the best piece they've seen.
So, my goal is I, I already have the vision of how I'm going to do this 10-foot piece. It's going to be, I'm hoping they will say yes. It, it's based on the, the, the curatorial committee to say yes or no to it. It's 10 feet tall. 10 feet wide and five feet heights, two canvases, five by five. It will be what I'm planning to do is these children that have gone through the suffering, they it's an idea from what this woman did last year.
I'm going to have them work on and paint the backgrounds and the, the acrylics so, you'll know that what you're hanging in your room has been touched by the children that you have touched by buying this. Because the money goes, all, all goes to them. And so, then I'm going to do a, a web and network with birds and flowers, which I've painted a lot.
and those can be realistic. On the abstract background, it's going to be called hope, or Hope Eternal because that's the symbolism of the flight and the symbol of the, of the flowers blossoming because you know what? A child has been sexually abused and physically abused and it's just horrific that this is, that you are going to hang that in your home.
That will show, show this, you know, flight and blossoming. So, that's sort of mine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Well, you know what? If plastic surgery doesn't work out for you, you can always fall back on this.
Sam Lam, MD: I don't know. I'm be a starving artist. I hate to tell you that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, we'll, we'll wrap it up now, but is there any closing comments about 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ or how can people reach you?
Any advice for others coming up?
Sam Lam, MD: You know what be passionate about. Don't. If there's something you don't like, don't do it. You know if, and that's if you love it. Don't, don't let someone else tell you not to do it. Carve your own way. Like I was a history major in college and people thought, why'd you a history major?
Well, trans, trans, you know, Steve Jobs talks about if you hadn't seen the Steve Jobs when he talks about connecting to odds backwards yeah, it's a great, I always tell to people to watch that because I didn't know that could actually allow me to write books so, fast. And it, it just follows your heart and your passion.
Just do what you like. Don't worry about someone else telling you that you suck or you're stupid and you shouldn't do that because. You know, if you love it, you're going to be, you're going to get better at it. And, and that's, that's, those are my parting words, you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's fabulous. Thank you so, much Dr. Sam Lam.
I hope to see you at a meeting soon. Yeah, and that'll wrap it up for us. For Beauty and the Biz, if you'd be so, kind to subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don't miss future episodes, that'd be terrific. Please share this with your colleagues and staff. If you've got any questions or feedback for me, you can always leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com.
Dr. Lam's website is at www.LamFacialPlastics.com.
Sam Lam, MD: Plastics with an s.com. Yeah. plastics.com it would be Dr. Lam, DrLam@LamFacialPlastics.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Alright. Righty. And then if you want to DM me, you can reach me at Catherine Maley, MBA at Instagram. What's your
Sam Lam, MD: Instagram handle? I've got many, but if you want to follow my art Yeah.
Which has nothing to do with business. It's @SamLamMD. I, I post every day a new piece of art. If you want to follow my facial, it's @LFPDallas as in Lam facial plastics, @LFPDallas. And my hair is @HairTX and then my skincare is @OvaSkinCare. @OvaSkinCare.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dear Lord, do you ever sleep?
Sam Lam, MD: Six hours.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ .
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Lam, you can reach out to his website at, Visit Dr. Lam's Website.
A big thanks to Dr. Lam for sharing his experience on 6k B&A photos and βjust for menβ .
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
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-End transcript for β6k B&A Photos, plus Just for Men β with Sam Lam, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#b&aphotos #drsamlam #samlammd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and transforming patients and yourself.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Transforming Patients and Yourself β with Nicholas K. Howland, MD".
When youβve spent years training to become a surgeon, your fortitude and character were tested big time.
But thatβs just the beginning. Then you had to have enough left over to go into practice and grow a sustainable business that takes good care of you and your family.
That is no easy feat.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Dr. Nicholas Howland, a young board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in Draper, UT for the past 5 years.
Dr. Howland looks at plastic surgery not as vanity, but as transformation and self-empowerment for his cosmetic patients and by extension, he learned about "transforming patients and yourself".
Heβs walking his talk since Dr. Howland also went through his own transformation this past year by divorcing, being a single Dad, losing 60 pounds and working on his mental game to become his most authentic self.
We also talked about:
- Dr. Howland growing up in Salt Lake City as a Mormon and the values he gleaned, even though he has since left the church;
- How he entered the crowded Utah marketplace and found a unique hybrid practice situation to join that works with his personality; and
- How heβs an independent contractor with freedom to build his own brand, while also growing equity for his future and not having to worry about the day-to-day HR and office issues.
He really does have a nice set up!
Visit Dr. Howlandβs Website P.S. Can you please take a minute to review Beauty and the Biz? I would appreciate it.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Transforming Patients and Yourself β with Nicholas K. Howland, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Now, today's guest is Dr. Nicholas Howland and he's a young for certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in Draper, Utah at the largest private practice group in the area, and he knows all about transforming patients and yourself. And we'll talk more about that, but this is what I find really interesting. He was born in Utah and before pursuing his medical career, he fulfilled a two-year church mission to St. Petersburg, Russia, where he was the lead interpreter and coordinator for volunteer efforts in the world-renowned Hermitage museum. You have to Google it. It is the most unbelievably huge ornate building I've ever seen. So, we'll talk more about that.
So, Dr. Howland went to medical school and his residency at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, and he's presented at over 20 local and national meetings, as well as published several abstracts, journal articles, and book chapters, all before social media grew his practice.
Now, he has a great introductory video on his website at Howlandplasticsurgery.com. He actually has two and one is, and I think everyone should have an introductory video (remember, he knows about transforming patients and yourself), like get to know me kind of thing, where he's talking about cosmetic surgery that he performs. But he is, or was also, talking about taking call at six different hospitals in the area.
So, we'll have to dig into that and see if he's still doing that. So, Dr. Howland, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Thank you Catherine. Thank you, and thanks for calling me βyoungβ. I appreciate that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. Well, I'm getting up there now. Now you're, everyone's looking pretty young to me. So, how did you, you're in the middle of Utah, and social media grew your practice.
Oh. First, I have to talk about the Russian thing. I happen to be reading. I love Russian spy novels for whatever weird reason, and I'm in the middle of one right now. Now it's winter and the way it's described, I'm literally freezing reading. This book is so, intense in Russia. How cold is it?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, it depends on where you're at in the country.
I mean, you go, if you go south to like Rusto Nanu, which is on the Black Sea, it's a tropical climate. But where I was in St. Petersburg, we I lived in St. Petersburg for about one out of the two years. And then the other year I lived in a very small town called Petroski, which is, here's St. Petersburg, here's the North Pole. And Petroski is this little lake town, right? A little closer to the North Pole than St. Petersburg. And I was there in the middle of winter and the coldest I ever saw was 40 below, and I remember it was 40 below because you know what? 40 below and Fahrenheit. No, it's 40 below and Celsius.
That's where the two graphs meet. So, 40 below is the same in both Fahrenheit and Celsius. And you walk outside in that kind of temperature and you immediately take a breath and every bit of moisture in your body immediately crystallizes all of the moisture in your nose. Any tears on your eyes, everything just immediately is frozen.
But I, I loved my time there. I, I spent two years there for a church mission. And we loved the people, loved the country. The history is incredible and fascinating. And I, I still haven't gotten a chance to go back there, but that's on me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But if you were interpreter, that means you spoke Russian and you must have spoken very well and fluently if you were in charge of that.
How in the world, I donβt know, one person in America has said, Hey, I think I'm going to learn Russian, especially in terms of Transforming Patients and Yourself.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: So, while I was there, I had been there for about a year and a half, and this was in 2003. And in 2003, St. Petersburg celebrated their 300-year anniversary as a city. And president Putin, he was still president at the time.
He put in billions of dollars into renovating St. Petersburg for this celebration. So, they, I mean, they repainted the whole city. They restored a lot of old churches and buildings and one of the things that they were anticipating was several hundred thousand, if not over a million visitors coming through the Hermitage Museum in a period of about a month.
So, it was just going to be packed for this whole month-long celebration of St. Petersburg. And they needed English speaking interpreters to be stationed throughout the museum to be able to tell people like, Hey, the Rembrandts are this way, or If you want to see Michelangelo go this way, or The bathrooms are that way.
And for whatever reason, the church missionaries got put in charge of that project and I got tapped as the lead for that project. So, I had to over several months give, we had over a hundred missionary volunteers who spoke Russian, but also, English. And then we had over a hundred native Russians who spoke fluent English.
And so, I had a group of over 200 people where we organized and trained them on the museum so, that throughout that whole month they could be stationed throughout the museum and guide people. So, every day for about two and a half months, I was taking little small groups on private tours throughout the museum so, they could acquaint themselves with it.
Taught them what we were going to do during this big celebration. And that's really where I developed a, a really strong love of the arts. I mean, you spend, so, The Hermitage is the second largest museum in the world.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have any idea how many square feet It's, cause this thing is massive, and Iβm sure thatβs helped since social media grew your practice.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Oh, I'd have to go look.
I mean, it is, is it like football fields like. Bigger. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's composed of five buildings. The Winter Palace, which is where the, the czars used to live is one, is the kind of recognizable building. It's, it's like a, like a green color. It sits right on yellow Square. And that's kind of the entrance that everybody recognizes, but it's actually five massive buildings that host some of the most incredible art in the world and some of the most recognizable art in the world.
And walking through, just over and over, I really developed a love of art and the classics there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, and just out of curiosity, is it a dangerous city? Because this book makes it sound like everyone's a spy and you can't trust anybody and everyone's ripping you off. I mean, is it, is it what, what is Russia?
Like, just your observation and how it relates to Transforming Patients and Yourself.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Russia is a city as, as a country that's really been damaged by its history and by its leaders. There is, since the Iron Curtain came down, there still has not really developed a middle class. It's a very kind of two class system, especially in St. Petersburg where you have the ultra-wealthy and then everybody else.
The people that are, are great. They're, they're, they're kind, they're loving and they're great people. They're a little untrustworthy because of their history and how they've been treated. But once you kind of get in their home, they'll give you the shirt off their back and would do anything for you.
I, I, I love it. What's, what's interesting is my brother, He served a church mission to the Ukraine. And so, he and I with world events as they are today, actually having friends who are, are now at war with each other. And it's, it's a hard thing to watch especially when you know and love people on both sides and you have to your heart goes out to these people who really are at the mercy of, of leaders making, you know, choices that we may or may not agree with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I wouldn't mess that. All this, my lord. So, back to our vanity world how, how did you become a plastic surgeon? Did you grow up with plastic surgeons (before social media grew your practice) when you left the church?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: First of all, I'm going to, I'm going to correct you right there because my approach to plastic surgery is a little. It's not about being Vanity.
I do not believe that plastic surgery has anything to do with vanity. I think plastic surgery, I think it can, and I think there are people who utilize it that way. But for me in my practice, plastic surgery is one of the most self-empowering things that a person can do for themselves when it's done for the right reasons.
And so, you and I talked a little bit about this when we met in Miami, which I have my own podcast called The Naked Patient Podcast. And that's what we kind of talk about on there is removing this social stigma of plastic surgery being this horribly vain thing that that people only do to kind of satisfy their own vain desires,
Cause I don't think that's what it's about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hmm. Okay. We don't agree on that. But carry on because what, whatever. Prompt somebody to want to look good and feel good. I'm all for that because my opinion is we're all just trying to be happy, period. We're all just trying to figure out what the heck we're doing here on, on earth and how can we enjoy it Today I want to buy a new car and that's going to make me happy.
Tomorrow it's plastic surgery, the next day it's a boyfriend or husband. Like, it's just, we're always bopping around. So, I love that we, we can do whatever we want. That's the greatest part about being human beings. You know, we, and we, we ebb and flow, you know, so, yeah. However, we get there, it's become super-duper popular, and how that all relates to Transforming Patients and Yourself.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah, absolutely. Well, well I'll tell you how I kind of came to that belief. Cause that really is the mantra that kind of drives me in this practice. When I was going through medical school and then residency, I remember. I, I had a, a dinner with this. He was a, a friend and we went out to dinner with some other friends and he was asking me, you know, what I was going to go into, this was around third or fourth year of medical school.
And I told him, you know, I think I'm going to do plastic surgery. I think I really love plastic surgery. And he didn't ask me another question. He just looked at me and he says, Ugh, what a shame. And I was like, I'm, I'm sorry. And he says, I just, it's such a shame that healthcare has become the way it is, that you've got to go into such a vein and, and horrible profession in order to make any money these days.
And I'm like, hold on a second. I really like plastics surgery. And that was the start of it. And then even later, we, I got into residency and my mom would call me pretty regularly. and she would say, did you do good plastic surgery today or did you do bad plastic surgery today? And in her mind, if I was doing cleft lips and pallets or you know, even massive breast reductions, she would, she would justify then I was doing good plastic surgery.
But if I was doing rhinoplasties, breast augmentations, facelifts, I was somehow doing bad plastic surgery and that was coming from my own mother. So, I had to reconcile that somehow in my life. I had to make that make sense or else, I mean, I, I, because I wasn't going to agree that I was just doing this profession to make any money and that there was a good and a bad side of it.
And that I was choosing the bad side because I knew I wanted to go into cosmetics. So, for me, the way that I reconciled that is I just realized that they're not different. For I, I think, and I have seen a breast augmentation change a woman's life just as significantly as a cleft lip or cleft palate change some kid's life in Guatemala.
And that may sound like a really harsh comparison, but that is true. And that's because plastic surgery is such an individual thing and it can be so, self-empowering for that person. That thing that, that's why I believe it's not about vanity. So, when you do it for the right reasons, it's taking that whole vanity thing away and it becomes about empowerment.
And that's why I love plastic surgery. And that's, maybe that's just how I reconcile it in my mind, but I truly believe that, and that's the approach that I take with me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, at family reunions do you guys talk about it? Are you the black sheep? Are, is everyone okay now? Like, how's your mom doing?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Oh, listen, she's, she is, heard me tell that story countless times. and Oh, yeah. Yeah. She, and she knows, but she, I think has come over to my side where she feels like, you know what, you're, you're right. I, plastic surgery really can change lives and is more about, can be about self-empowerment and not about the way that we have pushed this as a society.
And that's not just, you know, social media and influencer's, faults. We as plastic surgeons have pushed this as a vein profession and something that, that's not empowering. And you know, I think that we have a responsibility as plastic surgeons to, to improve the way our field is perceived.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you left Fellowship and it's time to go out into the marketplace, what were your choices and how did you decide what to do and then what did you do before social media grew your practice?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: So, for me, I had gone to a meeting in, I think it was in San Diego or Dallas. And it was, it was actually about the business of plastic surgery. And they had some guys talking about how to, how to run a business because you don't get a lot of that in training. And I'm trying to remember who it was that gave this talk.
He's, he's, he's out in California. Really like him. Doctors. What's that? Doctors? Yeah. He's a plastic surgeon in California. I just, I can't, I'm blanking. What's that? Paul?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nasa, the guy, he has a program now. Everybody wants to do what I do. I'm a consultant, plastic surgeon. He's the business of marketing and now everybody wants to do that, in terms of Transforming Patients and Yourself.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: No, I'm blank. I'm blanking on his name and he'll, you know, I'll come back to it. But he had this idea that he used when he went out into practice and he, he wrote a letter to every board-certified guy and said, Hey, I'm coming out there to practice. I'm not necessarily looking for a job, but if you have an opportunity, I'd love to hear about it.
And he said he got two responses back. He got one guy that said, there's no room for you here. And he got another response from a guy that said, sure, as long as you stay on this side of town. And I heard that story and I thought, I'm still going to do that., I think, I think that still sounds like an opportunity and.
Salt Lake City is still kind of this underdog or, or at least perceived underdog in plastic surgery. We, at one point, were the number two or number three spot per capita in the country for plastic surgery. Right. And it's kind of, it always kind of shifts, but, but Salt Lake is always up there near the top.
We have a ton of plastic surgery here and a lot of plastic surgeons. So, I was training in Texas. I had gotten divorced and my ex-wife had moved here with our two kids. And so, I knew I was coming to Utah. And I did what this guy had suggested. I wrote a letter, I looked up every board-certified guy, wrote a letter, said, Hey, I'm coming out there, let me know.
And in two weeks I had 14 offers. Nice. And a lot of them were older guys looking for me to buy their practice. You know, they wanted me to pay them. One 2 million to buy their practice. And those ones I wrote off immediately. But then there were a few that were from guys looking for partners and the contracts they offered were different.
And the one group that I found that I ended up joining is, is a kind of a hybrid practice model. So, our group is called Premier Plastic Surgery, and there's four of us in the group. And we office share, we share expenses with of our nurses. We have the same office manager, but within that umbrella of Premier plastic surgery, we all have our own individual pc.
So, Hal Plastic Surgery is its own entity within Premier Plastic Surgery. So, I'm the sole president and employee of Hal Plastic Surgery. I do my own marketing. I run my own social media, but I'm also, under this premier plastic surgery group through which we buy our implants. We buy our products for our med spa.
And as a and as a group, we also, save a little bit on our malpractice because of that and. So, I get a lot of the benefits of a group practice, but I still get to enjoy the freedom of an individual practice where I'm doing my own marketing and I'm creating my own brand. And that's all independent from this group.
And I've loved it. I, I don't think that there's a model that, that I have seen that works better in my, in my opinion.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Alright, so, how do you divvy up the expenses? Is it done per surgical hour or whatever? Cause this is one area where you can get into trouble when you're working with a bunch of surgeons when social media grew your practice.
You're using the OR more than I am. Why am I paying for, how have you worked that out? Because it can be troublesome, as it relates to Transforming Patients and Yourself.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: So, the surgical center side runs a little bit differently. So, I'll get to that in a second. So, on our clinical side with Premier plastic surgery, Everything is split uniformly down the middle.
We all get a bill a stack of bills at the end of the month, and we're splitting those bills 25% across the board. And on the surgical side though if I'm, I'm an independent contractor with Premier Plastic Surgery, so, I go into the surgical center and I have a contracted pricing as an owner with the surgical center that I pay when I use it.
And so, it's really based on my use. Your kind of still eat what you kill, and that's it. A couple years into the, into my practice, I was offered the opportunity to buy into the surgical center as well as the medical spa, which I did. And so, I now am one of the four owners of the surgical center as well as the Med Spa.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, all four of you are the owners. Partial owners of the Med Spa and the surgical center. You don't have outside surgeons coming in? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: It gets a little complex there, We, we are in a building where there are nine plastic surgeons in this building, and only four of us own the Surgical Center and the Med Spa in my group, premier Plastic Surgery.
Three of us are the owners. The other owner actually is an independent private, or, sorry, a solo practice, but he's in the building. Hmm. And so, that's where, that's where it gets a little convoluted,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. As long as you got a good accounting system, you know, taking, you're tracking all of this, you know. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Oh, yeah. And so, with, with the four of us owning the surgery center nine plastic surgeons in the building that, that use it. Plus, we bring in some orthopedic surgeons. We bring in some podiatrists, some urologists. I mean, there's probably about 17, 18 surgeons. That use the, or we've got four ORs. It's a quad, ASF surgical facility.
And works great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what would you say gimme the pros and the cons of working in this, this hybrid practice idea, I think is almost your best bet no matter how you look at this, because you still have the freedom to do your thing. Because one of the biggest issues I have seen after 23 years is one guy wants to be the alpha and the other guy has to be the number two.
And it just, the egos don't usually mesh well that way. So, in your case, you don't need a line in the jumble. Your ha you're all for doing your own thing. And so, what would be the pros and the cons of. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah, I'll tell you exactly what the, the hardest part for us right now is, and it has nothing to do with our model.
It has to do with o only one of those owners of the four of us is actually the landlord of the building we're in. Gotcha. And that's where any problems that we run across come up is when the landlord makes a decision that favors the landlord and not the partners of the practice. And so, the solution to that, which is something we're working on, is having a building where everybody shares equal ownership in the land, in the building.
Because otherwise the practice model runs almost perfectly. I mean, I, there's, I don't need to be the Alpha and nobody else strives to be the Alpha because they have their own practices and brands. My brand is Howland Plastic Surgery, premier Plastic Surgery. Is this. Nice group model that we put up a billboard for and, and we'll put some ads in a magazine here and there so, people know, oh, that's the group I go to.
But the brand I'm building is Howland Plastic Surgery because, because I'm the brand.
Catherine Maley, MBA: One of the issues also, that comes up is Premier Plastic Surgery is, it's not a little practice, it's a very big established, you're the largest group in Draper, Utah. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: So, we're the largest group in Utah outside of the university.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. When leads come in, they don't all say Dr. Howland, they sometimes just say Premier, like, I need to, how do you divvy up leads that come in arbitrarily. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: We have a front desk staff that's very well trained to be diplomatic. They also, know the surgeons who kind of like certain things. So, a couple of the partners.
Don't like liposuction. And so, if somebody calls and they don't know the surgeon that they want to go to those two, those doctors that don't like liposuction aren't recommended. And we've all kind of created our own little niche in terms of what we like and the front desk staff know which surgeons prefer which cases.
And, and, and that the other thing I'll say to that, that was one of my big concerns coming into a group. I had had a friend who joined, a guy whose wife ran the practice, and it was a year in before he realized, oh my gosh, she's giving every single lead to her husband, obviously. Yeah. And so, that was a concern for me.
And I, I asked the office manager Hey, how do we divvy this up? And she said, you know, you'd be surprised. She said, most people who call here, Aren't calling saying I need a plastic surgeon. Most people who call are calling because they looked up Dr. Howland or Dr. So-and-so, and that's specifically who they're trying to get an appointment with.
It is few and far between. For somebody to call up and say, I want a tummy tuck, Kuya got Gotcha. And that's getting even more prominent in today's age of social media. People are looking up year before and afterβs, they want to come to you. Nobody's looking up a group practice before and afterβs not looking at the surgeon and then calling up and saying, well, gee, the group looks good.
Send me to somebody in there. No, they, they know the surgeon. They're trying to get in to see.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why there's such a debate about what to name your practice. I, in today's world, you've got to get your name in there somewhere. Like you're the brand. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And I, and I, I hear you. Like, I know when you're ready to actually, you wish it was something else, but at the moment to grow this thing, it takes your name. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
So, I, I don't know what the answer is there, but I do know things work better when, when you when you brandish your name and people get to know you well.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: β¦And I'll tell you what, I'll go, go back to those guys who were trying to sell me their practice at the end of their career. For whatever reason, among doctors that, especially plastic surgeons, the idea that your practice is worth anything when you retire.
That's gone. plastic, this is, you are not a dental practice. Nobody's staying committed to the plastic surgeon they go to when he retires, and they're going to go in and see the guy he brought and replaced you. No, like you are the brand. The only thing that's worth any money at the end of the day is the building you're in and the dirt it sits on.
And so, that's why that landlord issue is so, important for, for me, is I know at the end of the day, my practice is not going to be worth a thing because it's me. I'm the brand. So, I better be invested in the real estate and the building if I want to have anything to take away from my practice. At the end of the day,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I certainly agree about the real estate and I would also, keep an open mind to the med spa.
That's your best bet for reoccurring, predictable revenues because asthma, your name is not on that as much and it's much easier transfer over and a doctor will buy. Something like a predictable revenue stream from a med spa than they will from another surgeon who has patients that may not be a fit for him at all.
So, I think that's where your next best asset is. The med spa. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. That I would absolutely agree with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, are you still doing how much cosmetic, how much insurance? Where, what's the point? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: That's, that's kind of morphed over the years? You know, I, I still followed that old model. You know, we, we talked earlier where about me taking call and I, I did that old model where you just take, call everywhere you can.
I did a lot of hand trauma and a lot of facial trauma and built up my cosmetic practice slowly. And that still works. When I say slowly, I feel like it built up pretty quick with social media, but, The I, I only in the last year have stopped taking any insurance other than some passion surgeries that I really enjoy doing.
And so, now my mix is probably a 90 10 mix of cosmetic versus insurance cases.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, interesting. And does anyone else in the practice do insurance or are you pretty much cosmetic all the way there? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Pretty much cosmetic all the way. We will be bringing on another junior partner here shortly. Especially since I've transitioned out.
He'll ideally come in and take some insurance cases and that, that's kind of the model we've followed. Where the new guy comes in, he practices that old style of eating, what he kills, taking what insurance he can, and then growing his cosmetic practice until he's busy enough where it's time to take on another junior partner.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What I'm noticing after doing this for decades is the patience. Has dwindled to a, a lot less because in the before you'd have to grind like that for years. And now it seems like there's, the patients are, there's no patients now they've got, they want it now. They want it now. Sure. So, they do all the, all the recon and the, and the e n t and all that for about a year and say, okay, I'm, I'm done.
I'm not doing this. And that's been, it's, it's problematic because on the one hand you're saying, oh yeah, insurance is great. And on the other hand, nobody wants it because you can't make any money. You know, that's, I any advice for that for people coming out saying, I'm not doing, I'm not call, you can do this without doing call.
Can you enter the marketplace? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yes, you can enter the marketplace without doing call. And I see guys do it all the time. How, how do they do? I, they establish a social media presence as, as quickly as possible. They provide good results and they treat their patients well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: β¦And they take out a massive loan to cover office staff lasers or like I, is that what they're doing? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I'm not sure if they are. I, for me, I didn't have to do that. The way my, you know, the way that this was set up is I took out a, I established a line of credit and I think I dipped into that line of credit twice. I bought a computer and a white coat, because that's all I needed. They had everything for me.
Here. Desk was here, furniture was here, the nurses were here, everything was here. And I needed some help with that first month for cost of living. After that I was, I was earning enough to, to maintain my cost of living and to pay my bills. But I think there probably are guys who have to either take out loans or take out a line of credit if they're not doing any type of insurance cases or their contract is different.
I, you know, I have a friend who joined a cosmetic practice, doesn't take any call at all. His contract was a guaranteed salary. And then he, anything that he earns past that guaranteed salary, he gets to pocket a percentage of it. And I, I think a lot of those contracts exist where it makes sense to do that and not have to take call.
I'm partial to the independent contractor contract. I think when you're, when you're giving a percentage of those cases away to a partner, golly, that sure breeds a, a, a difficult relationship. Right. Especially if you start earning a lot and you're like, why am I paying this guy a percentage of these cases?
So, for me, I just think doing that independent contractor agreement and saying, I'm going to, I'm going to buckle down for a few months until I'm busy enough is the best way to go.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I, I hang around mostly with the more mature surgeon who's trying to figure out how to exit profitably. Mm-hmm., and they'll, they'll guarantee a salary for about a year and, and that's not going to, that's not an open wallet forever because he took the risk.
And that's what they say to me. I took all the risk. I'm the one who put down all this stuff at the bank. I'm the one who had to go through hell to grow this thing and this guy walks in and says, oh, oh, what do you got for me today? You know? And so, there's some resentment already before everybody even starts. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly. Yeah. So, I always say it, all of this in writing when everyone's still happy. You know, just like a divorce, like do it when you're still in love. Cause there's just so, many ways to go sideways on that. And I don't know how, you know, they want you to buy their practice because they want to walk away with some money, but you're saying, what am I buying?
And that's why I think you've got to own some land here because at least you've got the land in the building. And the rest is just gravy, I guess, you know? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. So, one of the things, one of the things that we have done in our group that I think is, is, is helping so, two years in, I bought into my into the surgery center in the med spa.
And the reason I did that is I was, that wasn't supposed to be an option for me until five years. But one of the partners retired earlier than everybody thought. And when he retired, he said, okay, I'm out. Buy me out. And they hadn't really thought that far ahead. And so, they did an evaluation and they ended up paying this guy out.
And I'm sitting there going guys, you're all about the same age. I'm not about to take out a massive loan when you all retire, to pay every one of you off. So, we either figure this out or else I'm going to be fine in another practice. And so, what we did is my, my buy-in for the ownership in the surgery center, in the med spa was assuming the loan that they took out to pay that guy off.
And the way though that we structured future buyouts is we had an insurance guy come in and we all now have a, basically it's a, a universal life policy that will have a set cash value amount at our retirement age. And when. Want to retire, that policy becomes your buyout. You've got the cash value of it, which we set really high, and you can then retire and say, great, I will take my cash value policy and I will now walk away.
And so, older guys in the practice have to put in more money for their premiums because they're older and closer to retirement. For me, my premiums towards that policy are not too significantly high, but I know that I'm going to have a nice cash value nest egg at the end of retirement, and I'm not going to have to worry about having somebody buy me out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What happens though, if you wanted to leave earlier? Is there a clause that says you get the piece of whatever you've put in already or do you lose that if you...? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yes, you can. Yes. If you leave early, you can take your policy. And it's because they're, they're individual policies under an umbrella.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Now is there, by the way, let's just talk about staff for a second. This, I'm surprised you don't have any staff issues because usually on the morning there's a dictator, at least there's some clarity, like everyone gets it because there's this one personality you're dealing with. But when all of you are working solo or the staff still has to work together as a team. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Yeah. How does that work out? Like who do they listen to or...?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Brittany, her name's Brittany.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Office manager? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. Get, and we had, so, it's now Brittany. It used to be Stephanie. And that is one of the biggest lessons I've learned in five years is find, I, I am, I cannot manage. People around the clock. I've, I'm like most surgeons where I want to come in, do my cases, go home and not deal with drama, not deal with, you know, nurses arguing or not doing their job or staff having issues.
And so, you've got to find an office manager that can run that ship and you pay her every cent she's worth because, or him because it will make your life. And so, for us, that's, that's Brittany. She does, she does everything. She manages each partner's individual day-to-day stuff that they need, and she manages all of the nurses and any staffing issues that we have.
And we have regular meetings with her where she says, here's where we're at, here's what we need to do. And she makes life a thousand times easier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would just make sure she doesn't burn out. Because that's a lot of responsibility. Oh yeah. Yeah. I would, wow. I would, I would take good care of her, those people. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, well, and we'd take very good care of her. And those people are hard to find. We, we had, like I said, we had Stephanie and then Stephanie moved out of state and we needed somebody else. And we went through we went through two more before we were able to find Britney, who has been fabulous. God.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That's why I say hang on to her, because especially in today's climate, it's been very difficult to find good people. That'll stay, you know? So, yeah. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, that's, that's been my mantra as one of the owners as you, you pay your good people what they're worth. And we have very, very little turnover.
And I think it's because we, we keep our good people and we pay them what they're worth.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, in your five years, just gimme one mistake that you made that you wish you hadn't, but you learned from it. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Okay. This one is, I, I still don't think this was a mistake, but, it's not a mistake. It's feedback, you know, but I definitely learned a lesson from it.
And so, I came, this one's a little bit topical based on Utah and the culture here. So, that two-year church mission I served was for the Mormon Church, the Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter-Day Saints. I grew up that way. I grew up here in Utah. I'm no longer a member of that church. But a large part of the community here in Utah still.
And so, a lot of the marketing around here, not just plastic surgery, but marketing in general will oftentimes cater to members of that church. In Utah. It's a very common phrase to hear people say the church, and you're just supposed to know that they're talking about the Mormon church. I remember when I moved to Texas and I said something like, oh, I'm a the church.
A friend of mine was like, what church?? What are you talking about? But here in Utah, everybody knows what you're talking about. So, I had this idea for a billboard that I thought was brilliant. The Salt Lake City, l d s temple was undergoing construction and was under all this scaffolding. And that temple is a huge part of the Salt Lake City skyline.
Like if you, if anybody shows you a skyline of Salt Lake, that granite temple with the six spires and the big golden angel on top is going to be part of that skyline. And so, when I was growing up a, a thing that parents and church leaders and people would always say to me is, your body's a temple. Your, your body's a temple.
Don't do anything to your body that would, would, that would damage it. Because that's a temple. That's the house of God. And so, I, as I kind of reconciled plastic surgery in my mind, and I'm going through residency, It's really bad to tell somebody, Hey, you need plastic surgery? Go, you're looking, you're looking a little rough.
You should get some plastic surgery. Like that's a terrible thing to say to somebody where temple is not looking so, good. Exactly. But I think it's just as damaging to tell somebody, Hey, you're going to have to deal with those size, size H breasts. Or sorry, you can't have any plastic surgery because your body's a temple.
I think that's just as harmful. So, the billboard was a picture of the Salt Lake temple with under the scaffolding and the billboard said, God's remodeling his temple. Isn't it time to remodel yours with how? And plastic surgery underneath. Oh my.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, my goodness.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Still, I think hilarious and brilliant. I still will take credit for that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What was the blowback and our house, how quickly was the blowback? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: For the first couple days, I, I knew I was going to get some, some of the church blowback, like people are very sensitive about the religion. I, I knew that was coming. And so, for the first couple of days though, it was mostly positive. People were laughing, people loved it.
And I was really happy. And then somebody who had a pretty sizable following on Twitter, got on Twitter and went on a rant about how I was body shaming women. Oh, okay. And I tried to rep reply, be like, no, no, no, you're, you're missing the whole point. This is the opposite of that. I'm saying it's bad to tell somebody, get something done.
It's just as bad to tell them they can't. Like, this is the opposite of body shaming and. It just, its people clung onto that negative image. And I started getting one star review bombed, and people started coming after me on, on social media. And I spent days where I just was, was up looking at every comment.
And I had this, I, I was trying to respond to comments and I finally realized I can't respond to comments. These people are just here to, to make a mess and to be angry. And I molded over for several days and I finally the local news came and did a story on it. And I, I finally, when, when the local news came, that's when I was like, you know what?
We're just to appease people. We're just going to take the billboard down. I heard all
Catherine Maley, MBA: PR is good PR, no? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Until you get one star Google review.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Phone ring with people who wanted plastic surgery. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I have seen a lot of. Patience come to me specifically because of that billboard. Right? A lot of people saw it and said, oh my God, I love that guy.
I want to go see him.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He's got a great sense of humor. I think he's probably real. Like, look, I, I would just look at the numbers. The numbers tell you everything, you know. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, I would say, I would say I've probably had just as many looks at that and say, I don't want to go to that guy, And so, the I to this day, wish I wouldn't have taken it down.
I, I had a friend call me the night before. I had already made the decision to pull it, but she called me the night before and she said, here's what you do. She said, you get on the news show tomorrow and you say, Plastic surgery is about self-empowerment. That's what I believe. That's what I practice.
And I am proud of plastic surgery and I'm not going to be shamed into taking this down because we need to take away the shame from plastic surgery. That's the whole problem with the world today. And I wish I would've done that. I just, my, my two, I was only two years in practice. My Google reviews couldn't have handled that probably.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But How long, how long was it up? How long was the billboard up? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: A week. One week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh kidding.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. And those are expensive, right? Yeah. I mean, it's here, it depends on where you're at here in Utah, but billboards run anywhere from one to 3000 bucks a month. But don't you have to sign a contract? Yeah.
You're on a contract and so, we just changed the ad. Oh good. It was a, it was a, it was a digital board and so, we just changed the look of the ad and put something else up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what, but you were a little new, so, maybe that was a lot of critique for, you know, still being pretty fresh at this. I still, I think it's very cute and it's a good idea.
I think you could have gotten some good PR from it if you had, could have gone on to do the empowerment. But I will tell you, the media loves the negative, so, they could have turned that around on you. So, like, you think you're want to talk about empowerment and there's a good chance they would've Gotcha.
You know, so, you're, yeah. But actually I, I worked with this practice I won't say who, but he was also, religious, but he was more Christian and he had Bibles in each exam room and I told him, look, you're either talking religion here or you're talking. Body transformation, but you can't do both at the same time.
This is, it's making me uncomfortable. And I, I'm Catholic, like I, I love God, but this is not the time for us to be talking about Bibles, you know? You know what I mean? Like, I, I was in Utah and I went to the, the church and I was fascinated with it that they were marrying on a Tuesday afternoon.
There had to have been 50 couples getting married, and they were all under what, 18 or something. But I was fascinated with it. So, good for Mormons. You know, they've got everyone, they're, they're clean living, no drinking, no smoking, I mean, good for them. I don't know how you get people to do that, but you're the most productive state I've ever seen. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, I feel, I feel very blessed to have been a part of that culture. Yeah. You know, people will ask me all the time when I'm telling I'm from Utah, if I'm Mormon and I actually will say, even though I don't belong to the church anymore, I will say I am because those are my people. Those are my culture.
I'm very grateful for the, the le the lessons I learned for the values that I have because of that. But I also, love being able to speak both sides here. Like a patient comes into my office and if they are a member of that church, I've, I've been there. I know what those thoughts are and what they're dealing with.
Somebody who's not a member. I know what that's like mm-hmm. And so, I can speak to that too. So, I feel like those experiences in my past have given me such an advantage here to be able to speak to both sides of the coin with my patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, let's talk more about marketing, because I love that you're only five years out. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
There's no way you are marketing like your father's generation did. So, how did you enter the marketplace? It sounds like you, you went to so, well, you, well, you tried the billboard result. Well, you found, you forget that one out. But did you go into the print ads or did you go straight to social? How, how did you put your marketing?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, I didn't, I didn't have a lot of money and so, I I do, I still think billboards work. And I still do billboards. My, my face has been on the side of I 15 for ever since I got here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you keep updating it because you look dramatically different than you? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I do. I do. And yeah, it's, it's changed, my appearances changed quite a bit, especially just in the last year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But do you want to talk about that? Because I almost didn't recognize you when I saw that introductory video on your website. I thought, that's not the guy I know! How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I know I need a different, I need a different one. I've lost 60 pounds in this last year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And good for you. Any, any weight tips, weight? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I went through I did the 75 hard challenges.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Love, love, love, love, love. I listened to him. I just listened to him this morning. I love Andy Sela. He's my main. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah, it was a great start for me. And so, I now at least have a, a, a base to work with, you know, and I got down to a weight that I'm happy with, and now I'm working on kind of building some muscle.
And this last year was a real journey for me. I kind of got out of a toxic relationship and r really focused on myself a lot this year and on learning to love me, and it's changed every aspect of my life. Both my self-worth, for me, my ability to be a dad with my kids and even into my work life, my ability to be a good surgeon and a good boss and a good leader.
All of those things have changed just by me focusing more on myself and taking care of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For those of you who don't know, 75 hard is program put together by this internet kind of guy named Andy ela. And he's in St. Louis? No, he's in Missouri somewhere. Maybe it's St. Louis. And so, he, he, it's, he's all about mental toughness and he's another one who lost like a hundred pounds.
And the thing is, is for 75 days you learn discipline. It's all about discipline and getting to know yourself and controlling yourself, controlling your emotions. No drinking, no every very disciplined diet you have to read twice a day. You have to exercise outside twice a day for 45 minutes no matter what.
And I think, and I think about him all the time because I'm very disciplined. I exercise like a, like I am disciplined. I even take the darn cold showers. I'm waiting for them that to make me a multimillionaire. It hasn't yet, but I'm going control my mind more than I let my, you know, I'm going to control my brain and I'm not going to let control me.
So, this 75 hard I. I just never wanted to go that far. But, but I intermittent fast all of that, I just, it is brutal, wasn't it? Like, didn't you, I mean, it's a game changer, isn't it? For 75 days, you're so, gosh, darn disciplined. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. You're, you're locked into it. And for, for me, I thought that no drinking was going to be the hardest thing.
But it actually was the water. You're, you have to drink a gallon of water every day, and as a surgeon, you don't, you don't normally scrub out to go to the bathroom, Wow. So, when you're drinking a gallon of water a day though, you have to. And so, that was one of the hardest things for me. But it was such a good, it, it's, it's a way to develop habits.
You know, doing anybody can do anything for 75 days. It's not going to suddenly just change you, but it helps you create habits that you hopefully continue to stick with to this day. I walk for 45 minutes every morning. That was my outside workout that I would do every day, would be a 45-minute walk outside and every morning I still, I get up and I take that walk and that's kind of where I meditate and get my day started.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, so, interesting. That's good. So, back to the marketplace. So, you have the billboard and you're doing social media? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I, the billboard, I do. I, I started doing a lot of Instagram and Facebook and I started by posting a lot of videos of my cases. That's become more difficult to do as a, as a marketing ploy.
The algorithms have started pushing those down or shadow banning those people for showing graphic content videos. When I started doing that, they, they didn't, and those became wildly popular. People want to see surgery and action. You can still do those and you can, and videos still get a lot of traction, but you just have to be careful how you're posting them when you're posting them and making sure you've got the appropriate kind of filters on there.
Like, Hey, this is a graphic content video. For me, I'll tell you the secret to my own social media is you need to be interesting. And so, the only things you should be posting are things that are interesting about you. And because again, remember the whole. The whole point of, you know, my belief in my success is you are the brand.
And so, take five things that are interesting about you, the brand, and that's all you post. So, for me, I sat down and I thought about this and I, because at the time I was throwing anything at the wall, I was doing literary book quotes. I was doing stock photos of people having plastic surgery and saying, BBLs are great.
And just, it was, nobody was stopping and liking it. Nobody was commenting on it. Nobody cared. It didn't engage you. And so, The five things I came up with for me that were interesting. I'm a plastic surgeon. That's pretty interesting. And so, I post plastic surgery content, whether it's before and afterβs or videos or education.
I post that. I'm a single dad with two kids. That's unique and interesting. I love to hike, so, I post about hiking. That's unique and interesting. I love to travel, so, I post anytime I'm traveling and I love cooking and I love wine. And so, I post videos of me cooking or, or wine that I'm enjoying, and that's it.
I don't post anything else. You scroll through and that's all you see on my feed. Thereβre no stock photos, there's no book quotes, there's no hang in there posts. It's just those five things and I if, if you don't have an engaging post, don't post it. I am a firm believer in posting only engaging content.
Sometimes that'll be more than once a day. Sometimes that'll be twice a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you do it yourself or you have a team that does it? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I have, I, it's a mix. I'm the one who finalizes and posts everything. I do have some content they call them content curators because I actually get the content and then say, Hey, I need you to create a before and after, or make this into a TikTok.
Be, and I've tried bringing on people who could run the whole social media. Nobody has your vision. Nobody is going to take it and run with it the way you want to. And so, you're constantly just like, Ugh, why'd they post this? Why'd they say this? I, you, you just, that's got to be a thing that you do. I, it's, it's a good, and it's a blessing and a curse.
It's good and bad.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I do know some surgeons though, who have a marketing team, but they meet with them every week. They go over the content. The, the best part is they've got that videographer in there all the time, taping or recording the. You know, the day in life of a plastic surgeon. And then if you can get a good editor and somebody who understands social media well it's the Gary Vanerchuck thing.
One, one video becomes 96 pieces of content Right person to do that. Cause that certainly makes your life a lot easier. And it's really engaging content too. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. Those, those are hard to find. We're, we're slowly kind of building that team, but that's kind of, we, we started from the bottom. And, we're slowly building that team.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now I saw your Facebook and I didn't see YouTube and I didn't, and Instagram was private. Is that just me? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: You're looking at Howland Plastic Surgery. You need to go to Dr. Nicholas Howland. Hi, the Catherine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, God, I, I'm like, there's no way he's doing, cause it said, you know, I've got a lot of videos. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
And I thought there's no way he put that under private. Why would he do that?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Ok, Dr. Nicholas, howβs the Instagram as well as the TikTok? My YouTube channel is sparse. We're starting to put my podcast content onto the YouTube channel. And we'll use that more.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's talk about your podcast. Cause I know a lot of surgeons who have started one and they usually get to.
Four and say, this is way too much work. I don't want to do this anymore. And so, I always say, you know what, before you even jump in, decide are you and commit, are you going to do it or you're not going to do it because you can't do it once a month. It's got to be consistent; it's got to be interesting. And thank God I have all you surgeons to, you know, interview because it's a lot of work to pound this out every week.
So, for sure we're probably with yours. And I love the name of yours to make it patient. You, you're, you're very, you're very good at inline. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Well, listen, this, this came about really just in the last six months. I had a patient who was talking to me, she'd been through three rounds of body contouring after losing 300 pounds.
And after the last round of surgery, her husband pulled her aside and said you're still ugly and I miss you when you were heavy. And that. That was a blow to her. And she was talking to me on the phone about this and said, you know, I just, I'm struggling because I'm feeling guilty about my bariatric surgery.
I'm feeling guilty about my plastic surgery. She said, but I've never felt better about me in my life. And she says, I don't know how to deal with that. And I said, that's actually more common than you think with weight loss patients. Let's, we should do like an Instagram live or we should do an interview or something.
And literally it just kind of hit me. I was like, hold on. This just needs to be a podcast where we talk about that human element of plastic surgery. There's surgery, podcasts all over the place where you can talk about what to expect and what surgeries do, what and how the pain was. I want to dive past that.
I want to get into the actual emotional side of plastic surgery. Did it change your life or did it not change your life? Wasn't it. Empowering, or wasn't it? And I want to hear both sides. This is not a rah rah, Dr. Howland podcast where people come on and talk about how great I did. No, I want, I bring on complications, I bring on patients who I know are not happy with their results.
And that was, that was how it started. And so, I brought in patients where we were going to talk about their plastic surgery and then it's kind of morphed into everybody who comes on as a patient of mine. But really, I just want to hear good stories. And sometimes it's plastic surgery adjacent.
Sometimes we don't even talk about their surgery. Like I had my sister on who has had plastic surgery, but she has this really cool story where she met her fiancΓ© during Covid. They dated for 18 months online, and then he moved around the world to meet her and get married. Oh. And they meet before they got married.
They, the first time they met was for two weeks in Hawaii, and that was March, 2020. Oh man. And then the world shut down and they, he lived in Australia. She lived in New York, and so, they dated online for the next I talk to you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Boy, I've been to Australia. That's a 24-hour airplane. Airplane ride. Wow. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: So, they, they only had met for two weeks and then they dated for 16 months online and decided it was worth it.
And now they're married and they just had their first kid.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh cow. That's a great story. We love stories. I mean, I, I'm a marketer and the first thing you learn is stories are everything. We remember stories. We were, we were told stories. As kids bring on the stories and bring the emotional element that one of the biggest issues, I see in practices is they're so, logical about the surgery.
Now this is what's going to happen and this is what, but nobody's talking about the emotional side. Like, why are you having this? Anything going on in your life? Like, what's prompting you to do something about it now? And then grab the story afterwards. So, what do you think, you know, has this transformed your life? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Has it been a game changer? I, that's what we all want to know.
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah. And so, that's, that's all we talk about. And I don't do hardly anything other than set aside. I set aside a block of time once a month to go down to, there's a, a podcasting studio. And they've got, it's all set up. I pay a small monthly fee where they've got cameras set up recording equipment.
I schedule my people; I knock out five or six interviews in half of a day. And then we release and they, they do everything. They cut it for me, they edit it for me. They upload it to all of the podcast channels for me. They even will create small snippets of clips from the podcast that I can use for content on my social media.
And it, for me, I, I think it's helping my practice from a business standpoint, but it, I don't care. I don't this podcast. Does not need to make money. For me, it's hell, it's a, it's helping me become a better surgeon because I'm connecting more with my patients and I think it's very cathartic for my patients to come on and talk about their experience.
That's what makes it worth it for me. If this thing blows up and becomes the next Joe Rogan podcast, awesome. It's not going to, but it might be the best when it gets to that point., if it, if it also, only gets my patience to come on and that's it. I, I'm still happy. It's still worth it for me. And so, that's the other thing I would tell anybody looking into doing a podcast, you have to go into it for the right reason.
If you're And that reason cannot be to make money cause the podcast. This is not a money-making endeavor. No. The podcasts that make money are few and far between.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how difficult is it? How do you ask a patient, do you want to be on a podcast? Cause most of the surgeons still have trouble asking for before and after photos
So, how are you, how are you getting them to agree to full on podcast? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I, let's say a connection. You, you, you build a connection with your patients that's beyond the money surgery exchange. And so, if I know somebody has a unique story or if I am, am talking with a patient and they tell me that emotional side, I'll just like, Hey, I would love for you to come share that on the podcast.
And sometimes I get stuff that is just completely unexpected. Like, I had a, a gal come on my podcast just last week and I saw her in my office for her three months, which is when we do their pictures and we then turn them loose and we see them every year. And I came in to see her after she had gotten her pictures and she was just sobbing and I, what's, what's wrong?
And she said, you know, I just, you need to know that this is like the culmination of this long road I've been on. I lost all this weight. I was in a very abusive relationship and this has just really helped me see the me that I knew existed. And it was really beautiful. And I just said, I would love for you to come share that.
Will you come tell me that story on my podcast? She said, absolutely. So, she shows up and that was all I knew about her. I didn't know anything about A lot of my patients that come on there might be friends or they might be somebody who I know their personal life or they might be like locally famous and so, we'll put them on.
I knew nothing about this. And she came on and started sharing her story. She was in a very physically abusive relationship. She decided to leave the relationship and the day she decided to leave was July, 2020. In the middle of Covid, she put her two kids in the car. She went in to tell her husband that she was leaving and he shot himself in front of her.
Oh my God. And I had no idea that was coming. And so, I'm silent on this podcast and she, nothing. But she goes on to tell the most beautiful story of healing and kind of learning who she was and forgiving him and raising these two boys and becoming an advocate for suicidal awareness. and plastic surgery for her was, was like putting a bow on the present.
She said like it was the cherry on top to finally see all of the work she had done on the inside. And it was such a validation to my message that plastic surgery is empowering, that I, I couldn't have asked for a better, a better messenger to come on the podcast and share that. And that's, those are the stories that I look for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For lead generation then. Would you say social media is your best lead gen piece or podcast is your best lead gen piece where from I would always word of mouth and social media is a very close second. Can you track it? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: So, tough. It's, it's hard too, for sure. I, one of the things that I do is I personally engage with all of my messages on Instagram and social media.
So, you're, you're not talking to a nurse or a coordinator, you're talking to me. And that's a helpful way of tracking. But other, otherwise, and, and there are algorithms built in where we can see if a patient, you know, got to my phone number or website through Instagram or through TikTok. But otherwise, it's tough to say, yes, this is exactly where this person came from.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Do you find, though, on Instagram, I find I personally just working with practices, I find that the Instagram people are have more sticker shock than others. I don't know if it's because they, they're online a lot and they think like, you know, Boobs or two for one. And like, I don't know if it's that kind of thing, but do you find that, that they're more price sensitive than somebody who came to you from word of mouth, let's say? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I haven't, I'll, I'll have to look at that. I haven't noticed that where I've said, oh, these, that's the way it's going to be. Utah is a little bit unique in that we've managed to keep our prices really competitive across for, for, in terms of across the rest of the country. Mm-hmm. And so, we get a lot of out-of-town patients who fly here because it's cheaper to fly here, stay here, have your surgery here, than to actually stay home locally.
And I think that's a, a, a unique part of Utah that's allowed that to happen and allowed plastic surgery to be what it is. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I didn't realize we are way over time, so, let me just ask you gimme, gimme. So, well we've learned a lot already, but give me one thing that we donβt know about. You already, we know you like hiking wine.
All my favorites of the 75 hard. So, what don't we know? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Oh boy. I, I, I kind of bear it all out there. One thing I would tell you that, that you don't know is I. And it, this, this last year, as I said, has been sort of a journey. And so, I have an entire half sleeve of a tattoo planned and I've started part of it.
And this is kind of one of my newer tattoos that's, oh, let me see if I can turn it for the camera. Oh my gosh. And this is actually the skyline of Salt Lake that we were talking about. Mm-hmm. And there is the Salt Lake Temple right in here and the Wasatch Mountain Range. And I've got more coming along this arm.
And that's all kind of a homage to this journey that my last year has been for myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So, where are you going with this? It's going to, so, far it's one, one body part. Is it moving around? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Is it, is it, it'll all be just that left arm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh. Why do people do that? Why don't we put them all in one spot?
I don't understand tattoos. I have enough freckles to deal with. I can't have any more spots on me, but well, so, you put them all in one place. How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: I, I, I am I, I think individual people put them where they, where they want. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, interesting. All right, so, just to wrap it up, do you have any words of wisdom for the new people coming out or trying to figure out where they fit into this marketplace? How does that relate to Transforming Patients and Yourself ?
Any, any words of wisdom there?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Yeah, just be authentic. Just be you, you are the brand. Be you, be authentic, and you're going to be successful. I mean, you're come out, you're a board-certified plastic surgeon, you're well trained. There's, there's very little difference between board certified plastic surgeons.
And so, the thing that's going to set you apart is you be authentically you. That's the only thing that's going to set you apart from everybody else.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, what words of wisdom. That is so, darn true. So, how can people learn about you? Because I, I understand the website is Howland plastic surgery.com. Mm-hmm. What was the Instagram?
Nicholas K. Howland, MD: Go to Instagram. It's @DrNicholasHowland is the handle. Same for TikTok. Same for Facebook. Those are the handles that you'll find most of my content on. Listen to The Naked Patient podcast. I, I think it's actually the naked patient colon beyond the operating room, but it'll, it'll, it'll come up if you just look up the naked patient.
And come, come see me in Utah. Let's go skiing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, wow. Have you gone up this year? Okay. Yeah, you're in the right place, that's for sure. Alright. Thank you so, much. I really appreciate you being on Beauty and the Biz.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on transforming patients and yourself.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Howland, you can reach out to him at, HowlandPlasticSurgery.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Howland for sharing his experience on "transforming patients and yourself".
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
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Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βTransforming Patients and Yourself β with Nicholas K. Howland, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#transformingyourself # transformingpatients #nicholashowlandmd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how you want more cosmetic patients choosing you.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Want More Cosmetic Patients Choosing YOU?".
If you want more cosmetic patients choosing you over your competitors, you donβt rely on luck.
You make it happen with the right mindset, proven strategies, and consistent execution that attracts new patients to you.
But first, think about the confused cosmetic patient. They have a problem with their appearance, and they want help. But who is the best provider for them?
And who can best address their emotions of fear, uncertainty, doubt and worry.
Somehow, you have to get across to them that choosing you means they will get a result that makes them happy, and they will not regret it.
So why are they going to choose you?
The answer to that question is where the money is made. Please give it considerable thought.
You have the skills to alter someoneβs appearance, so they look better and then feel better and more confidant as they move through life.
Thatβs a tall order because itβs extremely personal. That decision is full of emotions: fear, uncertainty, doubt and worry.
Somehow, you have to get across to them that that they will get the best possible outcome for their particular concern, and they will not regret it.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I lay out (3) specific ways that help cosmetic patients choose you.
P.S. Get the answers you need now and for the rest of your career at this special offer price for the Cosmetic Practice Vault. Itβs guaranteed to give you results or your money back.
Click Here www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Want More Cosmetic Patients Choosing YOU? Catherine Maley, MBA:
Let me ask you thisβ¦
In your own life, how and why did you choose a certain accountant, financial advisor, dentist or contractor?
Typically, itβs because you researched online. They had a nice website and good reviews.
Or you heard about them from your friend, family member, neighbor or colleague who had a great experience with them. That provider gave them great service, was easy to do business with and did good work.
They trusted that provider to take good care of you and solve a problem you have and thatβs why they referred them to you.
The same goes for cosmetic patients choosing you. Except that itβs multiplied due to the nature of your services.
You have the skills to alter someoneβs appearance, so they look better and then feel better and more confidant as they move through life.
Thatβs a tall order because itβs extremely personal. That decision is full of emotions: fear, uncertainty, doubt and worry.
Somehow, you have to get across to them that that they will get the best possible outcome for their particular concern, and they will not regret it.
So, here are 3 ways for more cosmetic patients to be choosing you:
1.Specialize β You Canβt Be Everything to Everybody
I know you want all the business you can possibly get your hands on, and for more cosmetic patients to be choosing you, but that is not how you grow your name and reputation.
Getting very good and well known for a particular procedure has so many benefits.
It helps you focus and get a lot of experience with that procedure. Your results are better when you do something often versus periodically.
Patients start talking about you to their social circle whenever that procedure comes up. That could be their immediate friends and family, but also their facebook groups and social media followers.
You become synonymous with that procedure and are seen as the expert. Thatβs your free advertising. Your referrals will grow. The demand for your services will grow. Youβll raise your prices because the βright patientsβ will pay more for specialized services.
Hereβs what you do to make that happen, so that more cosmetic patients will be choosing youβ¦
Find a niche in your marketplace and cater to it. Sometimes this happens organically but, usually, you have to create it and then grow it, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
This is the vital pieceβ¦.define your specialized procedure and target market by defining the criteria of your perfect aesthetic patients. That includes
Age
Gender
Zip code
Lifestyle and hobbies
Interest groups defined by associations or memberships
Occupation-based such as lawyers, professionals, stay-at-home moms
Ethnic/religious groups
Life events including marriage, babies and divorce
Now that you defined WHO, HOW to get in front of them is the next step.
Cater to those demographic groups. Join clubs they belong to. Attend events they attend and speak at association functions they are involved in.
Locate your office in the same vicinity. Become one of them. They will see you as the only choice for them because they are familiar with you and more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
The beauty of catering to a certain demographic is the referral base that grows from it. Like-minded people spend time together, work together and play together. They will talk about you to their friends and family and grow your word-of-mouth faster than you ever could on your own.
Now build an arsenal of social proof to build trust with other prospective patients who are also looking for your specialized services, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
That includes an updated website, lots of reviews and plenty of before/after photos that reassure would-be patients you are the only choice.
But go a step further⦠Publish clinical papers, write a consumer book or free guide, and let your non-competing colleagues know you appreciate their referrals. You might even grab the attention of the media who wants to interview you or showcase your talents in their next issue or episode, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
To make this more practical, here is a Case Study of how a surgeon Built Trust Through Specialization
A plastic surgeon with 10 years of experience in a hospital setting decided to go out on his own. He wanted to return to his hometown and practice in an affluent suburb; however, it was saturated with other plastic surgeons, and he was late to the marketplace.
Even though he could do face and body, he knew he would drown in βme tooβ services to compete. So, he decided to focus on rhinoplasty.
His website focused on it, he wrote papers on it, spoke at conferences and public events on it, and got involved in the community.
He hired a PR agency specializing in digital marketing to help spread the word. He received offers to be interviewed, speak and be an expert guest on blogs, facebook groups and consumer webinars.
He also reached out to his fellow plastic surgeons and let them know his focus was on rhinoplasty and not body work.
He is now 5 months booked out and couldnβt be happier.
But this also includes a Warning: Specialization Takes Time and Courage
This approach takes an unwavering decision to commit and stay the course for the long run. It was crickets for two years and he wondered if he was going to make it.
You have to pull from deep within to trust yourself and your skills and NOT waffle. You decide, put the flag in the sand and stay focused. Basically, you burn the boats so you have to succeed because you donβt have another plan.
Another surgeon wanted to grow his non-surgical side of the practice as well as his surgical side so he became the βGo To Expertβ on repairing silicon lip injections.
In his area, this was a big deal to a certain population who had this problem so he treated a couple of the women and they referred him not only to their friends and family but also raved about him in their private facebook groups.
Now he enjoys a steady stream of new patients who come to you for a lip treatment and then stay for additional services, treatments, procedures and products. And then, they will refer their friends and so on.
2.Build Trust Using Your Branding, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you
Start with your marketing efforts that create your brand . How many aesthetic patients have you not attracted due to your poor marketing materials and lack of unique branding? More than you think.
A new aesthetic patient who has not yet developed a relationship with you has to go by clues as to who you are and what you value.
They will look at your materials or assets to help determine that. Even an aesthetic patient who has been referred to you will solidify that referral by observing your personality through your marketing tools and branding.
So, it is your logo, tagline, website graphics, content, pricing, ads and your social media that tells them who you are, which will help for more cosmetic patients to be choosing you.
Itβs also anything else connected to you that builds your brand.
It is your hair, shoes, clothes, and demeanor. It is your staffβs hair, clothes, makeup and demeanor.
It is your office furniture, lighting, ambience, dΓ©cor, towels, and products in your restrooms.
It is the smooth flow of an aesthetic patientβs experience while visiting you and going through the process. Itβs your follow up. Itβs all the details that make up your brand for more cosmetic patients to be choosing you.
3.Build Trust by Building Rapport
If you take the time to build trust with your aesthetic patients, they will stay loyal to you and refer their friends to you for years to come.
Aesthetic patients go to service providers they like. Again, think about the service providers in your own life β your car mechanic, your hair stylist, your accountant β all get your business because they have a good relationship with you and that counts as much as the service they provide.
You build trust with your aesthetic patients by developing personal rapport with them and having integrity in the eyes of your aesthetic patients, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
You build personal rapport by finding what you have in common with your aesthetic patient. It could be your kids going to the same school or you are both from the East Coast or whatever.
People like people who are like them so look for the commonalities, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
And, you build integrity by saying what you believe to be true, by giving your aesthetic patients the best reasonable result possible and by doing what you say youβre going to do.
Your aesthetic patients want to know that your recommendations would be the same if you were talking to your own family member and that they are not just the next procedure for you.
The bottom line is trust. Your aesthetic patient must trust you emphatically. They must believe and be reassured that you are the best choice for them.
And thatβs how you get more cosmetic patients to choose you.
For more branding, business and marketing strategies that grow your cosmetic revenues, check out www.cosmeticpracticevault.com.
Itβs the WHAT and the HOW that sets you up for successβ¦
Because If you want to build a practice your competitors envy, you canβt rely on luck. You do it with the right mindset, strategies, consistent execution and outside counsel who has a bigger perspective to help, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
The cosmetic practice vault is your playbook you turn to when youβre stuck or stagnant or need a new plan, or when new staff come on board.
Hereβs whatβs included:
24 training videos with courses and powerpoint slides packed with tips, strategies, and graphics
10+ Hours of mind-expanding content
44 Business Strategies
85 Marketing Strategies
77 βSwipe & Deployβ graphics
44 Proven Scripts to convert, follow up, write ads, and conduct staff interviews
So, itβs your resource standing by whenever you...
- Need more leads or better leads from more quality cosmetic patients
- Differentiate yourself from your competitors
- Need more effective advertising strategies
- Want to see at a glance how youβre doing
- How to cross promote ALL of your services so you never hear, βI didnβt know you did thatβ
- Want to hire A-Players who have your back
- Hire new front desk staff to convert more callers to appointments
- Need your patient coordinator to convert more consultations
- Need a social media strategy, and a whole lot more
Thereβs no fluff. I took everything Iβve learned from my 23 years of working with hundreds of cosmetic practices and testing what works and what doesnβt, so more cosmetic patients will be choosing you.
This was truly a labor of love and a ton of work went into it so please visit www.cosmetic practicevalue.com and letβs grow your cosmetic revenues.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on βWant More Cosmetic Patients Choosing YOU?".
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βWant More Cosmetic Patients Choosing YOU?β.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#wantmorecosmeticpatients #getmorecosmeticpatients #howtogetmorecosmeticpatients
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Mueller became "The Surgeon Inventor".
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "The Surgeon Inventor β with Gregory Mueller, MD".
Most plastic surgeons see a problem and complain about it or wish it could be easier, faster, more precise, etc.
A rare surgeon sees the same problem and invents a solution for other surgeons to benefit from.
Thatβs what my Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest did.
Greg Mueller, MD is a board-certified plastic surgeon running a busy Beverly Hills practice during the day and inventing at night and on weekends.
He is best known for www.MyEllevate.com, a minimally-invasive neck lift contouring procedure that was bought by Cynosure, as well as ICLED Surgical Suture System, a light-guided technology and the oVio360 Imaging System.
We talked about the herculean effort it takes to bring a new product to market and the many pearls he learned along the way.
Visit Dr. Mueller's Website P.S. On Monday, I talked about fixing your phones so grab my 5 Phone Fixes Guide guaranteed to increase your phone conversions by 30% within 48 hours.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
The Surgeon Inventor β with Gregory Mueller, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Mueller became The Surgeon Inventor. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's special guest is very special because he became The Surgeon Inventor.
It's Dr. Greg Mueller. Now, he's board-certified. He's a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills and he's been there since 1998 and became The Surgeon Inventor. Now he's also an inventor and this is the part I'm very excited to talk to him about. Dr. Mueller invented the ICLED Surgical Suture System, formally called The Guide Surgical System, and it's a light-guided technology for cosmetic surgery and he's also invented the oVio360 Imaging System.
Now, Dr. Mueller is best known for MyEllevate, which is a jawline contouring procedure that offers the convenience of minimally invasive technology with long lasting results. Now in 2021 Cynosure purchased the MyEllevate necklift procedure. So, let's find out more about that. Dr. Mueller and for becoming The Surgeon Inventor, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
It is such a pleasure to have you. I've tried to get you on for a while, and thanks for coming.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Oh, Catherine, thank you. And it's such a pleasure to be here and I'm excited to talk about you know, the innovations and my practice here in Beverly Hills and any questions you might have for me. So, let's let it go.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, it's the inventor part of that. Cause most surgeons, I'll just say generally speaking, they're a fairly, like a finite, linear kind of thinking group. And in your case, you've got to be pretty creative to be inventive and to become The Surgeon Inventor. How in the world are you coming up with these ideas?
Gregory Mueller, MD: You know, Catherine I grew up in Nebraska and it was the fifth of five kids, the youngest, and our household was chaotic.
They. Five kids born in six years. So, I was kind of an independent guy. The last one, the youngest one. And so, I was always a tinkerer. I was always like looking at things. I was kind of like the little nerd inventor. And I remember when I was a little kid, my mom, I would watch her go down the stairs to check the washer and dryer and then she'd, you know, they wouldn't be done.
And then she'd come back upstairs and it was this total waste of time. So, I rigged up this whole light and buzzer system for my mother, and that was my first invention. So, I've always been the type of person I can look at something and say to myself, is there a better way of doing it? And I would say that's probably how MyEllevate was born.
I was looking at necks and I just thought, you know, there's got to be a better way to do neck surgery that's less invasive, and that's where it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But then where did the plastic surgery fit in on your road to become The Surgeon Inventor? Because if you were a kid tinkering around, it seems like you would've gone with engineering or. Sure. You know, something like that.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah. No, no, no, no. It's, it's such a good question. So, I you know, I always wanted to be a doctor. Ever since I was a little kid. I grew up in this little town called Oola, Nebraska, 5,000 people. And we just had I think we had four family doctors and a surgeon. And so, as a kid I always wanted to be a doctor.
And my mother, she was the scrub tech for the general surgeon. So, I would go up to watch them do surgery sometimes. And I thought it was pretty cool what they did, like fixing a body and things like that. And even when I was in college at University of Nebraska, I entertained the thought of becoming an engineer or maybe an architect, but I found those to be kind of isolating and I love people so, much.
So, I thought, you know what? I should stick with medicine. And so, I just kind of, you know, had this whole pathway for surgery and that's how it all started.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, now you're a surgeon in Beverly Hills who became The Surgeon Inventor. I might add, and we'll talk about that a little later. So, you're doing surgery and you're literally, half of your brain is doing the surgery and the other half is trying to figure out how to make it easier, better.
What, how did, how did that come about as you became The Surgeon Inventor? The MyEllevate?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, so, you know, I finished at U S C in 1998 and went into practice here in Beverly Hills. And you know, right off from the start I just thought, you know, the neck procedures I felt were pretty invasive and some of the patients didn't want to have a big invasive procedure.
So, in my mind I was just thinking. There's got to be a way to sew the neck muscles and to kind of smooth the area underneath the jawline without surgically opening the whole thing up. Because with neck surgery, that's what adds the complexity is when you make an incision under here and then you're cutting around the ears, you're lifting up all the skin, and the only reason you're doing that, especially in the front of the area, is to see the muscles to sew them.
So, I thought there's got to be a way to sew the muscles without directly opening the. And that's where it all began. And that was way back, that was like back in 1999 to 2000 when I started thinking about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how long did it take you to actually do it to become The Surgeon Inventor? Sure. And make sure it was really something effective.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I, I would do traditional open neck procedures and, and facelifts and necklaces and so, on. And then back in like early two-thousands, I started placing my endoscope in just to look at how things looked underneath the skin. Because I thought maybe I could endoscopically, you know, sew the muscles together, because I knew that, you know, people were doing endoscopic brow lifts, which I was as well then.
So, I thought, wow, maybe we could do an endoscopic, you know, neck muscle surgery. Well, when I was looking with my scope, this is back in 2005, I noticed that the skin was attached to the underlying muscles with all of these liga. And I recognized that those ligaments were pretty strong and they were always present even after doing liposuction.
So, then the thought came in my head, wow, I could, I could wrap the sutures around those little ligaments and use that as an anchor. And then when I had my scope in there, I could see the light through the skin. So, I thought, Wait a minute. If I had a sewing needle that was illuminated with a thread attached to it, then I could look at the skin on the outside, see where it was going.
If the light faded away, I knew I was too deep. Or if it was just nice and yellow, I knew I was right in the nice fatty layer, which I needed to be. Then I could use that as my directional guide. And so, that's how the whole idea was born, was looking to endoscope and studying the area underneath the skin.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Was that your other invention as you became The Surgeon Inventor? The, the.
Gregory Mueller, MD: No. Well, yeah. Oh yeah. That's, you know, the I C L E D kit. Mm-hmm. IC means I see you with my eyes like IC and then l e d light. So, the surgical kit is, it's not an endoscope, it's basically just an illuminated sewing needle and thread. And so, that tiny little sewing needle, we pass it underneath the skin and the doctor looks at the light shining through the skin to determine exactly where they are.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do those two go together or do you just, is MyEllevate including that light or can you do it without it? How does that relate to you becoming The Surgeon Inventor
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, so, you, you can't do the MyEllevate procedure without the light because you need the light guidance to accurately place the suture material right onto the muscle, and that's the whole cornerstone of the technology is being able to use light guidance.
To deliver the suture material right onto the muscle as opposed to just passing a probe through the skin. It's very unpredictable. So, you wouldn't know if you were too deep, if you were too shallow. And the whole key to the success of the procedure is accuracy and, you know repro reproducibility. So, that's how the light works.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, how much do you consider that minimally invasive, but there is a, an incision. Has that helped you to become The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah. Yeah. So, it's, it's minimally invasive, meaning that everything's done through little needle punctures. And if there's fat to be removed with liposuction, then we'd make a tiny little stab incision with a 15 blade.
And those are very small scalpel blades, so, those would be considered tiny little stab incisions or incisions. But they're so, small we don't even need to put a stitch in them. But the suture system, the MyEllevate. Place through tiny a little bit smaller than two-millimeter punctures, and none of them need a stitch.
They heal within just a few days, which is really cool.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The patients must love this, which must have helped you to become The Surgeon Inventor.
Gregory Mueller, MD: They, they love it. I'm, I'm telling you, I just saw someone today who she's on the red carpet. You know, this is Beverly Hills and you know, she was just horrified of the idea of having incisions around the ears and she came in at the right time, because MyEllevate works for somebody who's just starting to see some aging underneath the chin.
And so, we all use a laser to tighten the skin. I love using precision TX, which is a laser. Pass into the skin. So, now she can have a procedure without any detail, tale, signs, and a quick recovery too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, who's the best patient demographic for this? You said who's just now feeling it like they're not facelift candidates, but there's something going on.
Like how do you decide who, to help you become The Surgeon Inventor? Who's good For face or for like MyEllevate versus, I donβt know, skin tightening or a face.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Sure, sure. No, and that's, it's a really good question. So, if you think of MyEllevate, let's just think of it as a minimally invasive, percutaneous, light guided way. A lot of words to sew the neck muscles.
Okay. So, in a person who's just starting to show some signs of aging, it's a great way to sew the neck muscles by lifting and shaping them. Without opening the neck. And we would combine that with a laser to tighten the skin envelope. Or we could use radiofrequency, or we could use something like J Plasma or Renu Vion, or we could use Vaser to tighten the skin.
Now, in my practice here in Beverly Hills, the majority of my. Practice are facelifts and neck lifts, so, I still would remove skin around the ears, but I never opened the front of the neck, which is great. I always use MyEllevate to address the muscles, so, MyEllevate is really a way to address the muscles underneath the skin.
Without having to open the skin. So, it can be combined with skin removal or non-kin removal, or in a younger patient you can reshape somebody's neck that they inherited from their parents. That's not real desirable. You can give them like this new snatch jawline.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. So, how did you present this to your patients to help you on your way to become The Surgeon Inventor?
Or did you, did you bother? Did you tell them that you have a different way of doing a neck lift? Cause some of this is patient education too, isn't it? Aren't you trying to explain? Well, I don't, you don't need a full open, you know, face lift. You just need a little something, something like, how are you explaining that and how does that relate to you becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Sure, yeah. In, in the over 15 years of development of this technology in the very beginning you know, I had patients who complained about the little incision under the chin, and so, after I'd studied the area with the scope, I figured out that I could attach a suture onto like a rod, just a, you know, a normal surgical rod that you'd use in the operating room.
And I was able to just, Lace, the back part of the neck area without having to open it all the way back. So, the patients were very willing. They said, oh, that's great. If you don't have to open it all up, just use that. And then over a several year period, it just advanced where eventually I was able to lace it all and then we published a paper in the Aesthetic Surgery Journal in 2012, and that was using just the solid rod without a light on.
And the revision rate was like 15%. So, that's a lot, right? You know, you don't want to have 15% of your patients have to come back for a touch up. Nothing bad happened, but you know, they just didn't have like perfect results like I want. So, then that's where the light guidance came in. That's where I realized we have to have the light.
So, we got our F D A clearance for the light, and that was in 2009. So, from 2009 until today., everything is done with the light guidance and now the revision rates are less than 5%. So, it's pretty.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. What's the learning curve like? Cause it sounds complicated. What is it like and how did that help you to become The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, it's, you know, what if a surgeon is expert in the anatomy of the neck, which is key, right?
Because we want safety and we want our patients to be well taken care of. That's the number one criterion for someone who's going to perform MyEllevate. Then the second one is the surgeon has to be knowledgeable and experienced. And doing liposuction of the neck. So, the, my elevator is, is performed in the exact same location as liposuction is, and that's what makes it so, safe.
Because we're not down around the nerves, we're actually on the top of the muscle, which is safely away from the nerves, which lie deep to the muscle. So, any surgeon who is skilled in surgery of the neck and knows how to do liposuction is a great candidate. The learning curve is fast. Usually if surgeons do five to, you know, five to 10 procedures, they feel very, very skillful and very confident in their technique.
So, that's, that's the nice thing about it. It's a quick learning curve.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Huh. I'm fascinated with that. I should have known that before I had my neck lift, which would have also helped you on your journey to become The Surgeon Inventor. That's alright.
Gregory Mueller, MD: But see, we might use MyElllevate to address the muscles underneath, but you look amazing. So, they did a great job. They did a great job.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's the, like, if the facelift starts going, is it like a post base look kind of thing as well, where you're just trying to do touch ups to keep it all? How does this relate to you becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, so, you know there, there's, there's actually four different patient groups who are great candidates for MyEllevate. Younger, genetically less desirable neck contours.
We can change that. Then the sort of the middle group, those are the ones where a laser will tighten the skin or radiofrequency or, or plasma. Then the third group is those are the patients with the facelifted neck lifts and in the fourth group you just brought up, that's the patient who's had a prior face lifter neck lift because the neck is usually the area to go first.
Is pretty resilient and lasts a long time, but the neck skin is thin and everything hangs underneath the jawline. So, MyEllevate's a perfect way to prolong the results and do like a little jumpstart on a prior facelift or neck lift.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Good to know. I might need to, yeah.
Gregory Mueller, MD: All right. Come to Beverly Hills.
I would love to take care of you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Don't be surprised when I show up. Yeah, so, so, this is the part I'm really interested in. You can have a great idea, but selling. Selling an idea to another surgeon. A surgeon to a surgeon. It can go both ways, in terms of becoming The Surgeon Inventor. Either they trust you implicitly because you're also a surgeon, or they can't stand that you thought of something and they didn't, so, there's some resistance or they just don't want to make a change.
How did you market this, or how did you introduce this to other surgeons?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, that, that's like a great question, Catherine. I will tell you. It was hard. It was really hard and I'll tell you why It was hard. It was hard because it was so, expensive. Oh, you could, to go through the FDA and to get patents and trademarks because you know you need to protect it.
Once you had this investment. You've got to protect it. So, you've got to do those things. And then to go through the F D A, it's, it's a very expensive process. We set up our own manufacturing process here in California, so, our factory is about 50 miles from Beverly Hills, right here in California. And literally, I was down there on the assembly line.
Making sure that each person who was putting it all together was trained to do it perfectly because it's a medical device. So, the time and effort and money that went into it are just unbelievable. And that was something I did not really understand. So, that's. One big part of it. Then the other one is, is getting surgeons to, to open their minds to think about a different way of doing things.
Surgeons by nature, which is a good thing, we're very conservative and we're very safe. You know, we don't want to take risks with our patients. We don't want to. Experiment with a patient. And we usually do what we were trained to do in our training programs. That's like our foundation. So, it was enormously difficult to push the cart up the hill to get surgeons to see that it was a viable alternative and to get them to actually try it.
So, it, it's tough. It's very tough. And you know, you've got to publish papers. You've got to find reputable surgeons who believe in it, who will talk about it. It can't just be from you. Because every surgeon thinks, you know, they look at you and they're like, well, of course he thinks he believes in it. He has money in it, and he wants to make money.
And it's not about that. It's about. Getting something accepted in the medical world, which is conservative by nature and getting surgeons to adopt it. And, and it's, it's been quite a journey and I, and I feel like we're just, you know, over the hump of that sinus Assure has helped a great deal. But it, it's, it's been amazing to just see the naysayers now are becoming believers, which is so, cool.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How many years did that take from the time you decided to introduce it to others, to now how many years was it and how did that help you to become The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, the journey originally was introducing what was called the trampoline Plasmo plasty. I wasn't very good at branding back then because no one could ever remember that name. But anyway, that was the original name was a trampoline, floop Plasty, and it was a more complex procedure where we created like a shoe lacing underneath the jawline.
And it was hard to teach honestly. You know, I had mastered it by the time we were teaching it, but we didn't really beta test it with surgeons, which was a wrong move. We learned. And so, no one could really learn the trampoline or remember what the name was. So, we published our paper, which had a 15% revision rate.
So, you could imagine surgeons were just like, Uhuh, I'm not interested. So, I spent the next decade. That paper was published in 2012. We just got another. Very important paper accepted in the Aesthetic Surgery Journal in 2022. So, there you go. There's your 10 years describing the MyEllevate procedure.
Now we're at a less than 5% revision rate and a very high patient satisfaction rate. So, a decade, Catherine, it took a long time. And was this self-funded? No, no. It was self-funded in the beginning. Yeah. When I came up with the idea here in my head back in 2005, my neighbor is a patent lawyer and he said, how convenient.
Yeah, I know that helps. He said, you better file your patents before you ever even hire an engineer. So, I actually filed all the patents in December of 2006, and then I hired a biomedical engineer and told him my idea for the tools and he was the person who could, you know, put them on paper and eventually, Add 3D images.
Oh yeah. And, and that's what we did. And I self-funded it until 2008. And that was when we were getting ready to apply for f d A clearance. And that's when I realized, oh my God, this is so, out of my league. Lots of money. We have about 20 investors who stuck with me the whole way since 2008.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay. Thatβs very interesting too. So, you know, when it, it sounds like when the government gets involved, the budget increases, which may or may not help with becoming The Surgeon Inventor. Oh yeah. Maybe that's your boundary there.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, yeah. I, I think if somebody has an idea and so, on, it's, it definitely, you, you definitely, as, as surgeons, you know, and, and we make a good living and so, on.
But it, it's a very expensive process. We're talking millions and millions of dollars, not hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions and millions of dollars to get it to where it was. When we sold it to sinister in August of 21.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you have this this procedure that you have down, your patients love it. You love it. It's good.
Do you just call like your best buddies that you have and say, you know what, I've got this, this new procedure that will help me to become The Surgeon Inventor. Let me show it to you and then come on by and take a look at it. Like, were you beta testing just one-off doctors or it sounds like you did the papers. Did you also then get on the podium and start talking about it?
I'm still interested in how do you build credibility. In this industry that's a really tight knit group and tough to open up to, you know?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Sure, sure. Yeah. What we did is we did all those things. We, you know, got podium time and, you know, that was sometimes our company, we would sponsor a meeting, so, we would have an exhibit there.
and you know, they have non c M E talks so, you can, you know, get on the podium and, and you can present to a group of surgeons. And we did that just to kind of assess the level of interest. And then there was a meeting out here that's a meeting in the spring where we did our beta testing. So, we, we were a major sponsor of the meeting and right here in my office, in the surgery center, we had live surgery as part of the.
And so, that was a great way to bring some of those surgeons into the operating room. And what we did then is we really paid attention to their feedback. We had them fill out questionnaires about what it was like to watch the procedure, where they saw there were deficiencies in us explaining what we were doing.
And then we used all that information to help us shape a training program. And then I would do cases here and we would invite surgeons from the community just to come by if they wanted to just see it. And that was hard, you know, because surgeons are busy, you know? So, to get somebody to come over even for an hour is not an easy thing to do.
So, it was kind of friends, like you were saying earlier, friends and surgeons who, you know, that I respect and they respect me, would come over and look at it and then we'd get feedback from them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, now, so, you're doing that in Beverly Hills. How were you able to scale, in terms of becoming The Surgeon Inventor? And move this throughout the β
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, I think probably a big step for us honestly, was we, we knew that there, there are two surgeons who are, are major KOLs and, and you and I have talked about them and I, and I, I know you know them, but Barry de Bernardo, who's a plastic surgeon up in Montclair, New Jersey, and Jason Posner, who's down in Boca Raton at this current time.
In the world of plastic surgery, they are known as folks who really have a grasp on new technology. They, the industry likes to go to them to talk to them about where they think things will fit. So, so, we arranged a meeting where I could meet with them and, and we went down to my partner in the company.
He's not a physician, he's a movie maker. He and I went down to San Diego. To the Aesthetic Society meeting, and we met with Dr. Posner and Dr. D Bernardo at 7:00 AM or maybe it was 6:00 AM before the meetings even started. And I had my laptop and showed them before and afterβs, showed them a little surgical video and they seemed interested.
And then the next step was I went to Boca Raton and Dr. D Bernardo was there, and Dr. Poer, and we did some cases together. You know, I kind of walked them through it and they loved. They loved it. And so, then they were just wonderful in, in helping us kind of shape, you know, how we would get it introduced.
They both, you know, became consultants for the company, but I think that was a, that was a key step. That was a giant leap right there with them because you have to get it out of your realm into the realm of people who are known as people who are good at looking at new technologies.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. and well, and the plastic surgeon's world is different than the facial plastic surgeon's world.
That's different than the cosmetic surgeon's world. So, do you tap into all, or are you just focused on plastic surgeons, or who do you, what kind of surgeon do you have to be to perform MyEllevate, and how does that relate to you becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, so, I, you know, the two major groups for sure are the plastic surgeons, my group, and then the facial plastic surgeons, because we identified those groups as the most proficient and expert at surgery of the nac and, and the ones that would be, you know, safe and well-trained with a great foundation of education.
You have to be realistic and realize that there are other surgeons who are doing necklaces and facelifts and liposuction of the neck. So, we kind of hand select and, and seek out surgeons who might be oculoplastics because they're, you know, they're very well trained as well in anatomy of the neck. And then also dermatologic surgeons and, you know, just like everything.
There are great plastic surgeons and not so, great plastic surgeons. There are some oculoplastic surgeons who are great, you know, and some who aren't or whatever. So, we really try to vet and find the ones who are proficient in this area, because we want safety and we want efficacy. So, we started out in the facial plastics and plastics world, and then once you're out there and you're on the podium, And you get some facial plastic surgeons doing it and they love it.
Then they get, you know, they, they may speak about it on the podium, which is very effective because it's not my voice. It's another person's voice and that's how you make it go. And that's kind of how it's happened. It's been very organic that way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it was organic, yet you were able to scale enough to get sin assures you know, attention to become The Surgeon Inventor?
Yeah. So, how did that happen? Cause that was your big coup, wasn't it?
Gregory Mueller, MD: I mean, yeah. Oh yeah. So, it was. It was crazy, you know, because we were, we had beta tested at the meeting here in Los Angeles, so, we knew we had a training program that would work. We fixed a few little glitches in it and we thought, okay, it's Showtime.
And we had Barry de Bernardo and Jason Posner. We had some great podium time at meetings that were coming up, and then the little thing hit us called the. And so, it was like early 2020 and we're like, oh no, we're finally ready. And you know, it's been over a decade and now this is happening. And I remember calling my partner in the company Ted Galliano, who makes movies, and I told him, I said, I think we should just shut down the manufacturing and conserve cash.
And he said, no, no., he said, and he makes movies so, he understands big productions. He said, oh, no, no, we need to manufacture a lot of kits. Get them on the shelf because he said there's going to be a supply chain shortage. So, he said, this is the time to do it. And the factory, they were so, happy because we were the only company who were building up.
even though the, you know, the world was shutting down and that was the best thing we ever did. And what we did is we, we did like a virtual launch. So, we had these Zoom meetings because we knew doctors were not working full-time. We knew they were at home. We knew Ed, the culture was switching to Zoom. So, we had these webinars and we had them, we had this cadence going where we had something going every couple of weeks at the same time.
And we built this following. And then we, we had developed some nurse trainers who would actually go and help the doctor with the kit to teach them how to use it. And so, we were able to do virtual training, do live surgeries that we would, you know, show on Zoom like you and I are doing right now. That was enough where doctors saw it, saw they were interested, and then they would buy the kids and the nurse would go to their office and help them with their first two cases.
And, and it worked. We had 30% growth in revenues every quarter for six quarters. Oh my gosh. 30, 30, 30. Oh yeah. So, it attracted the attention you can imagine of not just Cynosure, but three other major companies and, you know, through non-disclosures. They can't say who, but anyway. We, we were negotiating with all of them and we were doing all these little, you know, meetings and, and whatnot and signed Assure.
They were the first ones who threw a proposal out and said, we don't want you to talk to anybody. And so, So, we could've, we had a quiet period and, and that's how it all came to be. And, and, We've vetted the other companies, but we felt sinus was the best match for us because they knew that this technology had to have a slow introduction.
It had to be done in the right way where we chose the right surgeons and trained them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it would be that the quality control. Yes. Cause the last thing you need is bad. You know? Bad stories out there. Bad, bad reviews, people complaining that would be bad for becoming The Surgeon Inventor.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, and you know, we've seen it, I mean, I know you've seen it in your lifetime and so, have I, where a new hot technology comes to market and the company over expands and they don't really train well, and then suddenly you've got bad complications.
So, we knew that was not the model we wanted to follow. We wanted to follow a slower buildup, you know, which is kind of hard, you know, because everybody's in the business, you know, especially corporations to make money. But I loved it, that sinus. Sure. They totally were on the same path as us and they continue to be, which I love.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Now, when you sold to Cynosure, do you come with that package or how does that work and how does that relate to you becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Well, I come with it sort of, no, no. So, I'm totally, so, the company was, or the technology, the, MyEllevate technology was completely purchased by Sinus Assure, and that was a clean deal. And so, I no longer run the company or anything, which is such a wonderful.
But I have a separate deal with Sin Assure, which was integral to the whole thing going through where I'm a consultant for the company, so, I just consult for Sin Assure. And the deal was some cash up upfront and then some shares and Sin Assure overall, and then the company. Our startup company gets some royalty payments along the way, depending on performance, and there's some milestones.
But I'm not directly tied to it anymore, which is great. But I am a consultant and it's to my benefit and to the company's benefit that I help them, you know, and shepherd it through. So, that's all part of the deal.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow, good for you on becoming The Surgeon Inventor. How long from time that they, that you ta that you got on their radar to the time you all signed, how long does that.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Oh gosh. The due diligence process with, with them was about six months. That was the quiet period. So, it took so, much time and Oh, it was intense and I'm so, glad we did everything by the book. I'm just so, happy with that. And I can remember along the way because we had people who would come and go, who would, you know, consultants, regulatory people.
So, me of them were not as like above board or like, you know, What I want to say, conservative about everything as we were, and we would always insist that everything would be done by the book because when the due diligence came down, everything was checked into. So, I'm very happy we did that along the way.
So, I would say from them talking to us to the sale of the company was about. 10 months. Wow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And you're tied up for that time. You can't talk to anybody else so, that you need that to work to become The Surgeon Inventor, right?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So, we, yeah, we just continued on doing what we were doing and you know, we just had to, it was a quiet period and we couldn't really talk much about it.
The quiet period was towards the end, you know, they, they did a lot of sorts of upfront checking on things. So, I would say the quiet period was maybe three to four months. Something like, Or we could not talk to anybody else about it. We couldn't tell anybody that we were in process with sinus or we just had to like lay low and tell people we were just going to keep doing it on our own.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, that's fantastic. So, wasn't taking up your time while becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yes, I was a slave to it and you know, I didn't even realize, but you know, right when we sold the company on August 4th, 2021, and I can't even tell you from August until December last year, which was 21, my income rose so, much. From just working here, I never realized how much opportunity loss I was experiencing until that big hungry horse was like taken out by sinus shirt.
I just didn't realize, you know, because you, you're so, distracted when you're running a company like that. It is a major full-time job and then you try to run your practice, which is also a major full-time job. I, I'm so, happy that we sold it. It's unbelievable.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it was 10 years coming or 20 years, two, eight until 22 on your road to becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: So, yes. A good 14 years. It was time, Catherine. Oh my gosh.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes. So, so, then let's talk about Beverly Hills. You have a practice that facilitated you becomng The Surgeon Inventor. How did you, how many hours were you able to work there? Like, how are you, were you swinging this because Beverly Hills, it's not like you're in Ohio where you're the only surgeon.
You know, you're in the middle of Beverly Hills and it can't be more competitive and those people are eating and sleeping and drinking plastic surgery and now you're kind of dabbling cause you're, you know, you know, tapping through both. How did you handle that on your journey to become The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Well, I, I think the, you know, the way it all works is if I had invented something that was non-plastic surgery industry, I think that would be a different story because that would've been a huge distraction and I think the practice would've suffered tremendously.
But since I'm the end user of the technology and my patients who are right here are benefiting from it, it was kind of cool because the two worlds were together. Very much collided. So, running a medical device company, perfecting a technique and technology and treating my patients with that same one, which attracted a lot of patients because patients loved it, that I was an innovator.
They loved it, that I didn't open the knack. So, I think that's what kept it all going. and they knew, I mean they all knew it was in my blood that this was my big thing that I was doing. So, they knew I had obligations outside and they stuck with it and they were just so, and they were so, proud about the whole thing too.
There, it's like a family for me here. So, everyone supported, which was great, but I'm so, glad now I'm not doing it well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I kept hearing MyEllevate cause I met all the conferences and I'm like, what is with is me. And then your name was attached. I went, oh my God. I had no idea and how it helped you to become The Surgeon Inventor. I did not.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Two and two together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Fine. Not for a long time. So, what advice would you give to another surgeon who, you know, who thinks this is a good idea when, when you have a good idea that may help them become a β14-year overnight successβ or similar? Sure. Any, any advice or any mistakes you made that you would tell somebody you watch out for?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah. I, I would say that the major things that I learned from this are number one.
It takes twice as long and twice as much money to get to where you want to be. So, you need to be patient Number two it's, it's a huge opportunity taker because as surgeons, you know, you know, we are paid really by time, you know, because our time in the or, which is very. And if you're doing things like a startup company on the side, you're missing out on some major income in the or.
So, I think recognizing that it is going to be very expensive and you're going to have a lot of opportunity loss is very important. And then probably the biggest lesson I learned was the beta testing. You know, being a surgeon innovator. By the time you get something to where you think it's ready for market, you will have mastered it.
But you have to remember that your audience, which are other surgeons, they know nothing about it. So, you have to be able to get into their shoes and do some beta testing and get feedback from them, and use that feedback to help you fine tune the procedure because it can be as elegant as ever. But if you can't teach it, there's no commercial value to it at all.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, true. So, do your, in your practice, is it, are you doing basic, do you do body and face or are you pretty much just focused on the face now to help you become The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, I used to do everything. But you know when, when I started not opening the neck, the word got out and people would send their friends because they loved it cause they didn't have scars here and they love their.
So, mainly above the shoulders that's probably 90% of my work. And then 10% would be, you know, like some lipo sculpting or things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how did you for in Beverly Hills just how do you market yourself in Beverly Hills? How the heck do you stand out amongst everybody else to become The Surgeon Inventor? Any tips on that?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a little bit older than the younger social media savvy surgeons, you know, because they, they, you know, I look at their Facebook and their Instagram, they have like a hundred thousand followers. It's like, I have 5,000 which I think is a lot, but, you know, that's bigger than my hometown.
But they, but I think. Being a good doctor and taking good care of my patients and listening to them. And also, you know, I'm not a big social media person. I'm, I'm not really good at it, you know, and that's not where our patients come from. But I think just taking care of patients and especially taking care of them if they have a problem.
You know, no surgery is perfect, no surgeon is perfect. And I think some of my best referrals, in fact I know this have come from patients who've had a complication because I was there for them. You know, and they know that. And you know, a lot of people have had other things done and their doctors they had before.
Just kind of didn't show up, you know? And I think that's a big thing. And, and being in Beverly Hills, yes, there's a lot of us here, but I think being a good person and looking after your patients and realizing you are human and there are going to be little stumbles every now and then, but, you know, helping the, helping your patients out when they have a little problem, I think is key.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Do you miss Nebraska, in relation to you becoming The Surgeon Inventor?
Gregory Mueller, MD: I'm so, glad I'm from Nebraska. I think it's a great place to be from and I love going back every year cause my family is there. I just think if I were in Nebraska and I came up with a surgical idea people that are more conservative, I think they would've said like, oh, he's kind of a kooky doctor.
And you know, maybe that's where it would've laid and it would've been done. I feel like in LA and California, I feel like. This is the technology capital of the world. California is. So, I feel like I am blessed that I'm in this city and that I have friends who make movies and who make a lot more money than I do who could see the potential of my dream, you know?
And were willing to support it. I think I would've had a harder time in a more conservative environment. And I feel like that's Nebraska's a more conservative place, you know? And so, I, I do, I love it out here because of that, and I think it's, it's helped me realize my dreams.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you had a lot of time to think on how to become The Surgeon Inventor, you know, when you live in Nebraska there's probably, you have a lot of downtime as a kid.
You know, there's not a lot going on. Probably, so, you just got to think more often.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Oh, but Catherine, remember I was building the washer dryer action indicator for my mother. So, I've always been a little bit of a busy bee!
Catherine Maley, MBA: That and have that other oVio going on, which helped you to become The Surgeon Inventor. So, because you're not going to stop inventing, are you, is there always going to be a little project going on behind the...?
Gregory Mueller, MD: I mean, it's expensive. As I told you earlier, that's one of my teaching points of this whole process is realize it's twice as much and takes twice as long.
I have the imaging system, the oVio360 Imaging System, which I'm very proud of, and it's very related to MyEllevate and, and I'll tell you why. When we published the paper in the Aesthetic Surgery Journal in 20., when I was assembling the patient's photographs for that paper even though I was very mindful and was trying to make sure they were all standardized, they're just not.
When you've got a camera and you're holding it and your nurse might take them one day and you might take them the next day, the angles are a bit off and stuff like that. I was so, frustrated with that. So, I built a camera for myself, basically putting the camera on a boom. And putting the backdrop on the other end of the boom and a little lazy Susan in the middle, so, who just rotate around the face or the body.
And I did that so, I could, number one, always have standardized photographs, but also so, that I could really study this neck procedure to perfect it. As I was building it, I thought, wow, a movie camera would be better on this boom, because then I could look at motion, you know, and see how when someone smiles, how the facelift alters the face, or with breast implants, how the breast implants move when someone flexes their peck muscles.
So, I built the first camera and my investors for the neck procedure for my. Remember I told you they make movies. They saw that camera and they said, oh, we'll pay to develop that. And I was like, oh my God. I built the camera for myself, not to be commercialized. And they're like, we've never seen anything like it.
So, that's how oVio was born. And they said, we will pay to develop it. And we did. And we. You know, my partner in the company, he was president of post-production at Fox which is the big movie studio here, and he hired one of the engineers who did some of the engineering for Avatar to really perfect the camera system.
So, the one I have in my lobby here is so, beautiful. It's, it's built out of air aircraft, aluminum, and it just sweeps around the patient and whisper quiet and it does these beautiful images. So, That's my other invention and we're you know, right now marketing and selling those. I'm a consultant for that company.
I don't manage that company. I learned right from the MyEllevate that I don't want to run a company; I need to run my practice because this is where I love to be. So, I do consulting for the imaging company, which is really fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Boy, have you evolved on your journey to become The Surgeon Inventor? Dear Award dear. Good for you. You know, just congratulations.
I've just been watching you; your career and it's just been amazing. I, I just, I wish I had a hidden idea myself, and I just, I, I do, but they're never like consumer, like I, I like to prefer to do things very complicated, you know, that like only a hundred people need, you know, I need to go, I need to find something big, big, big.
Yeah. So, my last question What? Tell us something we donβt know about you.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Wow. What you don't know about me. What would I say? I love to travel. I'm certainly loving teaching MyEllevate now because I get to travel the world. I just got back from Australia. This morning I was on with Dubai, and I'm hoping to go there early 23 to introduce MyEllevate to the Middle East, and then we'll be off to Singapore and then China after that.
So, I, I just, I think. What people don't really know about me is how much I love to travel and how much I have not traveled this far in my life because I've been working so, much. But I'm, I'm excited about that part of my life and you know, there probably will be another innovation down the road.
But, you know, I think the main thing is I love doing plastic surgery. I'm more excited about my job today than I was when I started 25 years ago.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That'sβ¦not everyone can say that. Good for you and your path to become The Surgeon Inventor.
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, and I think it's a, due to a couple things, I think because for so, many years I was doing the startup that it was, it was quite a distraction and it just feels so, good.
And so, you know full of serenity to be able to just focus on taking care of people and not have all this interference of worrying about cash flow with the startup company and this engineer quit, or that person quit, or the factory's not working right now, I can just really focus. So, I'm, I'm, I'm just loving my profession right now and love my family too.
I'm really close with my family. That's another thing that, you know, I spend a lot of time with them and I don't know, I'm just excited to see where the next chapter takes me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Well, you are busy with being The Surgeon Inventor and it's so, nice. I hope to see you at some of the meetings coming up now that we're back again, right?
Yes. If other surgeons want to get ahold of you, what's the best way to do?
Gregory Mueller, MD: Yeah, I think that the best way would be to you know, I'm on Instagram, I'm a little bit addicted, even though I'm not good at it. And my Instagram is @TheNeckDoctor, and it's all one word. People can direct message me on Instagram.
That's a great way. Or they can just call the office here in Beverly Hills and the number here is (310) 273-9800. That's a great way to get ahold of me. And other than that, it's just I'm easy to get in touch with. Okay,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on βThe Surgeon Inventorβ.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Mueller, you can reach out to his website at, DrGregMueller.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Mueller for sharing his experience on becoming the surgeon inventor.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βThe Surgeon Inventor β with Gregory Mueller, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#thesurgeoninventor #cosmeticsurgeoninventor #gregorymuellermd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Charge a Lot, Give a Lot β with Ryan Neinstein, MD".
How do you charge up to $75K for a tummy tuck?
Thatβs what I asked this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast (link) guest Dr. Ryan Neinstein.
Heβs a plastic surgeon in private practice in NYC, in a gorgeous 6K square foot office above the iconic Bergdorf Goodman store with views overlooking Central Park.
Dr. Neinsteinβs answerβ¦.βWe charge a lot. We give a lot.β
He went on to explain his hyper focus on the patient experience and aftercare that his patients gladly pay extra for.
He walks his talk by employing 30 full-time staff who assist him in surgery, offer concierge services, drop off garments, pick up prescriptions, visit post-op patients and anything else that makes patients feel special and cared for.
His entire team thinks βrelationalβ vs βtransactionalβ and he gave lots of great tips for developing a practice culture that is fun, inspiring and profitable.
We also talked about HOW:
- His marketing efforts keep 3 plastic surgeons busy
- What he focuses on that allows him to charge more
- How he βrules but not reignsβ
Dr. Neinstein shared his pearls and philosophy with good take-a-ways.
Visit Dr. Neinsteinβs Website P.S. If you are NOT getting the consultation conversions you want, thereβs something your coordinator doesnβt know. Iβll train her to be a converting rock-star within weeks.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Charge a Lot, Give a Lot β with Ryan Neinstein, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to charge a lot / give a lot. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying" and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's guest, this Dr. Ryan Neinstein, and heβll discuss how to charge a lot / give a lot. He's board-certified by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons in Canada. And a faculty member at the Lennox Hill Hospital in Manhattan. Now, Dr. Neinstein is in private practice on the Upper East side of Manhattan where he specializes, speaks and writes on the topic of modern body sculpting techniques and liposuction safety standards. Heβs also very savvy on the topics of how to charge a lot / give a lot
He also serves on the Safety Committee for the American Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, also now known as The Aesthetic Society. So, Dr. Neinstein, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, Catherine, thank you so much for having me. I'm very much looking forward to this and I have been following your work for quite some time, so it's an absolute pleasure to talk to you today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, glad to hear it. Now, how did you go from Canada to decide to come to America to the most incredibly competitive area in the United States? How did that happen, in regards to how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, you know, I've always been in search to learn from the best, and after my amazing training in Canada and general surgery and plastic surgery, I came to New York to learn cosmetic surgery.
I was lucky enough to be accepted to the fellowship here where they, Uber was very limited and tough to get in. And when I landed here, I immediately fell in love, the culture of America. I fell in love with the people of New York and I knew that I wanted to spend the rest of my life.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. That's great. Did you meet your wife here and how does that relate to how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yes, of course. My wife is a fitness instructor from Connecticut. We actually met on a yoga retreat in Nicaragua, of course, and the love story has continued since then.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Aw, that's very sweet. Okay, so we'll talk more about that later, including how to charge a lot / give a lot. Right now, we're going to talk about business because ok, you're very young and from what I can tell, you're building quite a little empire over there with all of your expertise on how to charge a lot / give a lot.
And so, I'm trying to figure out where are you going with that? It looks like you've got two other surgeons working with you. What are they? Are they associates? Partners? How are you set up? Because it is Neinstein plastic surgery.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Correct. And you know, I've always loved the team atmosphere. I played competitive sports growing up.
I played competitive sports in college. It always, you know, it always drove me to be the best version of myself working with others in a competitive environment. And you know, I've recruited Dr. Chris Bundaberg and Dr. Anna, Steve and we all, so Dr. Steve just does breast surgery and Dr. Vanderberg is like me.
We are a hundred percent body and breast surgery. We do nothing from the. We have three people who are a hundred percent focused on the same procedures, and it provides a lot of intellectual inertia. We're able to do research projects. We're able to have a big infrastructure and team, which means we're giving a better experience to the patient, both in the operating room after the operating room, and in total.
So that team environment with a hyper-focused mentality creates an inertia to a better. They're associates of mine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And it is the goal to keep adding more providers, or where are you going with that in regards to how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, I think, you know, this is it. So, we built the space. Like I always say, you know, I like to think of them, what's the magic?
And then work backwards. So, the magic to me was the space. It's, you know, almost 6,000 square feet on top of Bergdorf Goodman overlooking Central Park. It has enough space for two operating rooms. I think three surgeons work well at two operating rooms. We work backwards, and I think the biggest. Thing that I'm always concerned about is this undisciplined pursuit of more, and we're not looking to grow.
We're not looking to bring on more providers. We're not looking to grow more offices. We want to keep maturing and being better at what we do. Focus, focus, focus on patient experience. So, there is no. Future for another office. All the future is, is just enhancing and increasing the capabilities and abilities that we have right now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: One of the biggest challenges of surgeons is working together. And I find personally the dictatorship seems to work better than the free for all or trying to have everybody agree on something. I've just, the, the groups I've worked with where we've tried to make decisions together as a group has on the topic of how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Not been great. Egos get involved. All sorts of things get involved. How well does it work for you? Number one, how did you find the right people to come on board? Did you, do you have tips for how do you find these people that you're going to have to work with 24 7 and get along for years to come?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, these are all good things.
Number one, I think it's important that there's someone who rules but not reigns. That's a quote from the late Queen Elizabeth. So, there's a difference between someone being the leader and someone being a dictator. So, in my office or in our office, I take the leadership role from the operations outside of the, or the organizational structure and the operations point of view.
And that's something that my associates. Me doing something I take great pride in. That's something I, you know, I use mentors and consultants from around the world to help me continuously improve the culture. And that creates a frictionless interface between me and our other surgeons. And we're all, we have a common goal, you know, we want to work together to provide patients with the best experience.
So, in that sense, you know, They have autonomy in the, my, my associates have a unique amount of autonomy for being an associate for how they grow and develop their own practice within the practice. And I talk about, you know, using Frick as an example. Frick worked with Carnegie, right? And Frick has his own museum here in New York.
You know, Steve Bald. My, for Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer owns a basketball team. So, you, you can create immense success within a bigger organization and use that structure and foundation that a leader that you believe in trust and can create. So, I don't think you need a dictatorship, and I also don't think you need everyone to be equally weighing in on every aspect.
When we have a northern star and a moral compass that we're all agreed upon, someone can take the lead on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But what happens when you need to make big decisions on how to charge a lot / give a lot? Things like, what are we going to do with the profits this year? How are we going to divide them up? Are we going to put them back into the practice? The big decisions on how to charge a lot / give a lot, how are those made?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, everything you know, I do believe in a meritocracy and. Merit is not all about revenue generating. You know, there's, especially in medicine, the quality of the outcomes is not about how much revenue's generated. It's like, how happy are the patients. So, we have multiple street tiered levels of key performance indicators that help, you know, our bonus and cost structure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then how do you divvy up responsibility on how to charge a lot / give a lot, you know like the, the one woman she focuses on breast, you two guys are focused on body when the leads are coming in, like, does she ever want to do anything other than breast or the boundaries are so set with you. You have, you three have this so figured out and dialed in that there's never an issue with leads or I'm getting more than you are getting, or she β
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Oh, I think when, when someone says never or always, they're probably lying.
You know, we have pretty clear goals for each of us and what we like to do. And you know, we do a lot of these hybrid cases where Dr. Steve does the breast and I'll do the tummy tuck and because they want that expertise at both level, and that works really well. But primarily, you know, Dr. Steve's breast surgeon, she has all the, you know, world class training and breast surgery and likes to do complex breast surgery, and she primarily focuses.
So, if someone is interested in doing, you know, a big body procedure in breast, we usually will have two surgeons involved and they'll get a, a, a particular expert in each side. Mm-hmm. And is it complete? 100% cosmetic? A hundred percent cosmetic. But you know, yes, I'd say so. Sometimes, you know, even though it's cosmetic, we're still helping people with skin cancer, lumps, bumps, rest reductions, things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But when you've got three surgeons who need to stay busy, that takes some, some leads and automation and lead generation processes, so, correct. Who's, who's the marketer there to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: I, I mean, we all contribute. So, the way we look at, and I, you know, what do they say about marketing? Half of it works. You just don't know which half, but.
What we listen, we have a clear, concise message, right? There's a lot of clarity with what we do. You know, I, when you go on a lot of plastic surgeon's website, you know, they're an expert in non-surgical and surgical rejuvenation of the face, breast and body, and you're already like, I don't understand.
Right. Ours, you know, ours is super clear. Breast surgery, body surgery, basically like with 360 tummy tucks and breast surgery. That's it, you know, and any combination. So, the clarity is key in terms of putting out the message. Number one, we're very, we're very strong with our blogs and we like trying to do bottom of the funnel blogs versus top of the funnel.
Top of the funnel is more building audience. Bottom of the funnel are people who are really looking to convert into a. And they're ready to go. So, we do a lot of blogs based on things people are actually searching for. How do I pick my breast implant size, mommy makeover recovery. That generates a lot of trust because you're getting real organic information.
That's one. Two, it's through social media, both Instagram and TikTok. We have a very consistent, serious message about how we present what we do, and we're all about telling stories, you know, it's not just like, look how great I am. It's this. We make. We try to think of ourselves as hero makers. The patient's the hero.
We want to show this story because we want people to recognize themselves within that. And they say, she's just like me. She's just like me. I have the same struggle. I've been down that path, and you guys are able to provide a solution. So, through blog and online, creating the content through social and then through our PR and the various media outlets, which creates the links and the back.
We're able, you know, to get the word out. And luckily, we're in a high-density area. I mean, there's 20 million people in the New York area.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. There's no shortage of , would be patients for sure. Do you all go use the same website to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot or does everyone have their own social media account, or is it all β
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Oh, we have, we have one mother mothership website and we all have our own social media, but we're all kind of, we have the same coherent message within.
Social media and everyone's saying the same thing every day. And with the overlying, with the, with the foundation of the mothership of the location, the team altogether.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then speaking of the team on how to charge a lot / give a lot, how, what kind of numbers, how many people are working under you?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: We have about 30 full-time. Oh, And we're expanding.
So, I mean people, a lot of surgeons don't understand. Listen, we are about the patient experience and that requires support staff, and I'm talking nurse practitioners. I like the maturity that comes with the master's level. You know, we run two ORs. I have a 10-person surgical team. I mean, we're, we're more staffed than the hospital.
Yeah. And from an admin side, you know, I think we provide a concierge service that the Ritz Carleton across the street would be jealous of. And I don't think that there's any, we have no limitations in growing support staff for our patients. We have people who run around town 24 hours a day, seven days a week, dropping off garments, getting anything, they want from a pharmacy.
It's a full-service operation and I, I would just keep adding more support, more support, more support. Patients deserve and want access, deserve and want support.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I commend you for that in regards to how to charge a lot / give a lot. Everybody tries so hard to work with at least amount of staff as humanly possible. If they go on vacation, the whole thing falls apart.
Cause they're so lean already. Good for you for pulling that off and. I'm sure you're charging accordingly though. I did notice on your website, and I love this it said like FAQs, how much would be a tummy tuck? Well, it's anywhere between 20 and 75 grand, you know, and I thought that was really good because obviously it's a huge range, but it totally told the segment who you are in terms of how to charge a lot / give a lot.
You're, you're not going to be the two for one er kind of guy, you know?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, listen, we charge a lot. We give. Well, I think it goes hand in hand.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't, I think you've got to go both in relation to how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yeah. About 30% of my patients are out of state and out of country, and we give a lot. It's an, it's an incredibly mature relationship with the doctor and the patient.
It's not transactional. We're all in, you know, we visit the patients every day that are across the street in the hotels. We have these long-term relationships. It is not a transactional factory, I don't think. There's nothing, anything wrong with that for the, you know, certain people that's the way they want to have their surgery and that's fine.
We are, I know what over the years, patients that we love, we love to work with want, and they want all of the, the experience in aftercare. And to us, that just means a big, committed team of, you know, passionate, caring people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, I know you're big on teamwork and I'm sure building culture. Yeah. Any tips on that for how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Because I would say that's probably the biggest challenge of almost any practice are the people. It's tough managing people, especially if you're a surgeon who never was taught any of that leadership and culture and all of that. Now, where do your tips on it and how do you learn it
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, you have to find mentors. I don't think you can go a straight line in life without a ruler. And you need to find mentors who can help you go from being smart to wise and also understanding that you'll, there's never, there's no end point on wisdom. So, to me, smart is, you know, you can read a lot of books like when we all Finish school.
We're very smart. Everyone's smart. We can read lots of books on business, we can read lots of books on HR, but wisdom is that traveling and actually implementing all that. So, you got to just keep asking questions, keep trying anything with the team, you know, with your people. It's, you got to seek first to understand if you want to be understood.
So, you got to get to know your team and you have to create, like, we have a, we have a core values. So, to come work on our team, it's not for everyone. We set the core values. Hey, everyone here believes in these four things. Number one, they're going to be an expert in what they do. So, whether or not you want to be.
You know, a scrub tech or a nurse or a front desk, you got to be an expert coming in. Number two, you got to be a lifelong learner. We have Book of the Month Club. Everyone has to take a course every year. Everyone has to keep getting better. This is not a check-in checkout. Number three, you have to graciously share what you learn.
We have. 30 people learning things every day. You got to be walking around and sharing them. There's no hiding knowledge. Number four, you have to accept feedback, okay? So, you have to be willing to have all these checks and balances, but when you have 30 people moving in the same direction, all in the same page, that's the culture here.
And it's a really culture that it's patience first, employees, second profits. Third, never lose sight. Patients, employees, profits. That's the algorithm. You can't go the other way. You got to take care of the patients. You got to take care of your team. And how often are you meeting? So, we do a full like town hall meeting once a month.
And then the individual teams, the clinical nurses, the surgical nurses, the admin, the patient coordinators do weekly meeting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't know why people don't do that to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot. You'll save yourself so much time and grief if you'll check in 30 minutes a week versus waiting till everything goes sideways.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yeah. That, that doesn't happen.
I mean, each, each clinic, each team texts and has a meeting once a week. The leaders from each of those team check in once a week, and then we have a town hall once a month.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, I understand. Yeah. But I mean, you have to meet the, the people working together have to meet at least weekly to check in with each other, which helps with how to charge a lot / give a lot.
And then there's the big meeting where there's more division and, and where we're going.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: A hundred percent the front. Yeah. The, and I also think it's important. Everyone knows everyone and everyone knows everyone's name and everyone knows what they do. The front desk knows who the nurses are. The nurses know who, you know, the administrators are.
there's nobody working in silos. It's a free-flowing communication.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Have you had any issues with staff since Covid, pre Covid, post Covid, in terms of how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No. Listen, I think you're always going to, some people are always going to have life experiences outside of work that impact their, you know, ability at work. And, you know, we try to do our best for each and every one of them to help them along.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's been one of the biggest business mistakes you've made in relation to how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, I think my business biggest business mistake was not getting a big, a big enough space early. I kind of did that, you know, renting very small and slowly renting, but the actual costs, not just in the time of all of the maneuvering and moving between offices and only going up like couple hundred square feet.
Every time with the new furniture, the legal work on the leases, and, you know, it, it's, honestly, it's better to take a bigger swing. And, and that was my biggest mistake. It set me back financially, set me back chronologically as well. So, I would've just taken the elevator instead of the escalator. only. Only if you have, only if you have it in, you know, if you have it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You, you seem to have the stomach for that in regards to how to charge a lot / give a lot, because not many would take out 6,000 square feet near Central Park in Manhattan and hope to God it all works out.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Did you listen? I have, I have fear, but I'm not afraid. Okay. Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not afraid and of anything doesn't mean I don't feel fear, but I'm not afraid.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you were doubting yourself about how to charge a lot / give a lot, as you're paying that rent, every month was on, did you have that period of, God, I can hope I, I can pull this off, or you just knew it?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Of course. Well, listen, when you sign that lease and you put a personal guarantee on, you know, eight figures, it's a big deal. But you know what?
That pressure either. Drives you or crushes you. So, it's a driving for me, it's a driving force for me. Pressure. It's pr, you know, I forget which person, which, which philosophers say, but pressure is a privilege. Oh, that's good. That's a good way. Yeah. You should be so lucky. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you though, for having the courage to play full out to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Cause that was a big deal. And that was what, nine or Well, how long have you been in the new space? The new space?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Two years in and we, four years ago signed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you signed it four years ago and you did a build out. Is that what happened to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: It did a big build out. Obviously, we were held back with Covid. But we persevered, we waited it out.
We made it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That's one of the issues with surgeons is it seems like your name has to go on the bottom line and you have to take all the risk. And a lot of other businesses don't have that. And you just really have to know yourself, you know, if you're up for that challenge for how to charge a lot / give a lot. And that's what it is.
It's either a challenge or it breaks you, one or the other, I guess.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yeah. I ex I accept all the risk and responsibility for everything, and, and I, I, I like that. I like being responsible.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. So surgical versus non-surgical, is it a big deal in your practice, in terms of how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: We're a hundred percent surgery. We just operate.
I saw it on your website, but it does So you don't have injectors. You're not trying, I have it. One of our nurse practitioners does a little bit of injectables, but we're like, you know, we're surgical practice and a lot of our PA we. The injectables are really just our surgical patients or a couple of younger patients, but a lot of it is like our surgical patients, just like when they're coming back for their follow-ups, they love the office and they just like want someone to do their toxin, you know?
Right. But I do zero. I do zero. We have no devices, nothing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you have any fear about the upcoming. What's going on in the world, in relation to how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: I don't want, I don't know what you want to call it, you know, the economy, whatever.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have any fear about that, in regards to how to charge a lot / give a lot? And just being surgical? Do you feel like you could also grab them on the way down, grab?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, I think, I think it would be naive for anyone not to have any financial concerns when there's macro-economic turmoil. That being said, I really believe in all businesses when things get rough economically. Industries tend not to shut down. So, the stronger, more predictable players within those industries tend to rise up.
You know, I do think patients will still continue to get plastic surgery even as the economic scenario deteriorates, but they're going to be much chewier. It's like, Hey, maybe I just won't go to this guy or that guy. Like, I'm going to, if I'm going to do it, I want to go to somewhere a little more predict. So, a practice that has, you know, a real structural d n a, like ours should be, should be well suited.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, regarding your demographics, is there a typical demographic that you are trying to attract to your practice and is it working to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yeah. Listen, our average patient is 35- to 45-year-old. It's, it's a mother of, you know, one to three kids who lives in, in New York City. Long Island, New Jersey, or South Florida, and, you know, they have, you know, similar socio sociodemographic, you know, things that they're into.
But we know who they are and we know how to get to them. And how's your word of mouth?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because it's all working, in terms of how to charge a lot / give a lot. If you can get those people, especially, I love the tummy tuck group because they're usually older, more mature, right. They have the financial wherewithal more than the 20-year-old breast aug patient and mommyβs that they hang around with who also need your services, which can help with how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, so I'm almost a hundred percent mommy makeover is my operation. That's almost a hundred percent because of the tight-knit c. And I just find it provides such a deep, meaningful impact to people because they have real physical, structural changes that cannot be changed with diet or exercise. So, there's a low psychological burden to surgery.
It's not like, Hey, I just want to look better. It's like, you know, my core doesn't work. The skin is, is stretched and torn. Mm-hmm. So yeah, we have our key demographics that, you know, we choose in terms of your question based on word of mouth. So, we have the date on this. We're about 75% word of mouth, but I think the word of mouth has changed or matured a little bit.
Typically, what happens is someone will get my name from either their doctor or another patient, and then they'll follow us on social media for like three months. Then they're probably following. Lots of doctors and they are almost like interviewing you. They want to get to know you, see what your practice is like, see what your home life is like, see what kind of things you do.
They so that's, that's the typical story. Hey, my friend gave me your name and then I followed you for three months and now I've decided to make a consultation.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And do you think they still got to your website or do you think they stopped at social media. How does this relate for you, in terms of how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, I think, I know we get a lot of traffic on the site and I actually think on, on certain pages, like the blogs that are deep dives into specific questions they have, I can, I know, I can see they spend a lot of time on those, on the generic pages.
I'm not saying they're generic. I mean it's all custom content, but like we're not going to write anything that's groundbreaking on breast augmentation versus every other plastic. But our custom deep dive blogs really give you more insight into what's happening in here and how it relates to the patient.
So, people do go to the website, they just do it in a different way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I, I honestly think nowadays, in regards to how to charge a lot / give a lot,, a lot of times a girlfriend mentions you, they go to your Instagram, then they go to your website, then they call or fill out the form. Yeah. It's gotten very zaggy and it's very difficult to tell. And a lot of times they tell you one thing on the phone, they tell you something else when they get there, then they tell you the real story when they get to know you better.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, well, it's important for the message to be cohesive, clear, and constant across all your mediums. So, it doesn't really matter if they get you on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or your. Everything looks and sounds and smells the same.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you've done a good job with educational marketing to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot. I like that a lot.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Cause that's, I've built my whole business on education. I all, all we want to do is be educational, informative and show a little bit of our personality so people get to know us. Yeah, pretty straight. That's pretty much it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do the patients ask if your wife had a tummy?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Everyone asks everything. And you know, that's just human nature.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, she's really a good walking, talking testimonial, and I wouldn't say if she did anything or not.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: You know, it's just, I mean, she's really a good she, she's the love of my life and I'm grateful to have her as the mother of my children and my life partner. Yeah. And you have a little boy and a girl.
I have a little boy and a girl, and there's nothing, you know, best thing I've ever done is a surgeons become a father. Not, it just, it, it helps provide such clarity in life.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You probably get your priorities in order after that, which ultimately help with how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yeah. Life's straightforward with kids, you know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, and I, it's, it's chaotic, but straightforward I know you're showing them off on social. Some people don't. You do? Yeah. What's your philosophy on that and how it relates to how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: It's part of my life. It's who we are. We love our kids, you know, and I respect and everyone's opinions and choices on, on all.
Catherine Maley, MBA: They, you might change your mind as the kids get older and say, I don't want to do this, you know, then β
Ryan Neinstein, MD: A hundred percent correct. Exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what is, what else is working for how to charge a lot / give a lot? So right now, the content is working, the social media's working. You're doing a good job. You've got 46,000 followers, so you're doing something right there.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: At the end of the day, there's only one thing that works is being an excellent surgeon and an excellent physician, just taking excellent care, being available.
To communicate, to be there for patients when they need you. That's, that's what, you know, everything else is great, but that's the real quintessential thing that matters. You being a person of, of, you know, real trust and compassion to the patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's it. You need both. You can't just be a good surgeon in today's world to get how to charge a lot / give a lot. Who's going to know that?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Someone's going to know you. You've got to, no, you got to get the word out, but great surgeon, you've got to do some good marketing
Catherine Maley, MBA: Take really good care of that patient so they don't say anything bad about you. And they might even, you know, ring your bell, you know, and tell everyone else about you.
I just think you have to have it all in today's world for the long run to help with how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: If you're in this for the long run, every patient should be treated as the, the one patient that you a hundred percent, a hundred.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's too difficult to screw this up, you know, or not. No, it's too easy to mess this up, in terms of how to charge a lot / give a lot. That one patient, have you ever had that patient from hell and β
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No. I don't want to characterize again, you know, people, it's hard to see the world through someone else's lens. Mm-hmm. So, we don't allow any type of terminology around here, like difficult patient, tough person. We just, you know, they're. How do you meet ones that aren't, aren't feeling good to you? Well, I think everyone gets a little bit of a fighting sense, similar to, you know, dating and, but not everyone's a good match for each other, and that's okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I think you get a set to that, you know, one of the nice, or do you just increase your price or how do you handle that and how does that impact how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No, I don't, I don't believe anything deceptive. Just, you know, Honesty, life's too short. You know, sometimes you're with a patient and you're just like, you know, I really don't think I'm the right surgeon for you.
I just don't think I can do what you want.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you know how many times they have given a bad review because of that? They'll literally say that, and it's like, I'm trying to be honest here, and I just don't think we're a good fit. And they'll say, Anne, he wouldn't even see me and he wouldn't help me. Anyway.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, there, you know, Hemingway said there's a big difference between being defeated and being destroyed. So, everyone takes some hits and everyone takes some losses. You can't win everything, but you can be just, and, you know, honorable and ethical in every scenario. And then you, you know, you let the cards fall sometimes, you know?
But when you do that, you're going to win more than you lose. And if anyone tells you they don't have any losses in life, they're lying.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, for sure. Oh no. Everyone does the problem with social media and all of us where everyone's got their game face on, you know, and that's why I want to be more authentic and say, these are the issues that happened in this industry, which directly affect how to charge a lot / give a lot.
Like what would say your biggest challenge has been growing a practice. What has been your biggest.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: This is not enough time in the day. There's, I just, I want more time for patient care. That's it. You know, when you're running the practice and you're in an operating room, you're being pulled, you know, to do things to help with the business and surgery, and you want to spend more time with the patient. So that's a difficult balance.
That's the hardest time. Just need more time. That's why I get up to four in the morning, try to give myself an extra.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I, I get up at five and I, it's, it's the only peace and quiet I get and I love it. I'd rather do that and, but then I have to go to bed at nine, you know, I definitely need eight hours. I'm not the four hours.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Those are choices we make, but for a good reason. Yeah. Yeah. I just think better at five in the morning than I do at 11 at night, as we're Sure. Yeah. Things are clear in the morning. Make your difficult decisions in the morning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Have you found it hard to balance business (how to charge a lot / give a lot) and family now that you have two kids?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Well, I think balance is relative different stages in your life as long as you and your life partner understand, you know, if you're in a growth phase like we are, that I'm just not going to be around for a while. But, you know, the idea is that I'm going to invest more time now so I have more time later as the kids get older.
Right. So, it's important to recognize that balance, I think is a shifting structure and that, you know, I, you. Build a surgical practice working nine to five, Monday to Friday. That's just not possible. And it's not for everybody. It's not for everybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, a lot of those practices I work with, I think especially the older, some of the older people just, they're tired, which affects how to charge a lot / give a lot.
They're like, I, I don't want to, you know, play this game as much anymore. But one of the issues is, or they still want to dabble in recon and do a little cosmetic, and I just say, You can do that, but that is a choice you're making because others around you eat, sleep and drink this, you know? Yeah. And how are you going to compete when someone's putting a lot more money into it?
A lot more effort.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yeah, listen, we're 20, we have 30 people, 24 7 pumping at one message. 365 days a year. We're relentless. And you know, we're not going to stop. Good. Okay. Tell us, tell us something we donβt know about. I'm an excellent water skier. I was a water ski instructor in high school. It was my, it was my, yeah, it was my first job I ever had, and hopefully one day it'll be my last job.
I'll go all the way. I'll circle all the way back.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Isn't the water super cold in Canada?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Toughens you up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I learned to water ski in Chicago in Lake Michigan, and it was brutal, but you certainly learned how to ski quickly. But the water was always like so cold, it never did warm up. It's a big leap.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: I always liked cold water.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. And you don't do much water ski in New York, do you?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Not much these days, unfortunately, but I hope I get to break, get my kids into it as they get older.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. How's your commute to assist in how to charge a lot / give a lot? Hopefully you live nearby, like you have a... I think everyone should have a short commute in today's world. It's so stressful to do all this work.
I think commuting is a shame. What do you β
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Three minutes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Three minutes?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Yep. That's fine. Three-minute, three-minute walk. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. Well, thank you so much for being on Beauty and the Biz and sharing your expertise on how to charge a lot / give a lot. I really appreciate it. And if somebody wanted to get ahold of you and like pick your brain, how would they do that?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: So, we are located at Four West 58th on the 12th floor overlooking Central Park in New York City. You can follow me or message me at Dr. Neinstein on Instagram. And our website is www.NeinsteinPlasticSurgery.com. And you can find me at any of those places.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you happen to have a surgical suite that has windows?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That would be the ultimate, right? To help with how to charge a lot / give a lot?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No, I wouldn't want it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You wouldn't want it?
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No, because you should be so focusing on the patient, not the not central park During.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, the ambiance. I think that sounds so good. I see. I watch a lot of the guys in Texas do that and it's just That's lovely.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: No, we take it, we don't, it's a hundred percent serious and our waiting room overlooks the Central Park and the Plaza Hotel, so I think that's a more appropriate place.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. By the way, we call it a reception area in Yeah. Nobody wants to wait (which facilitates better to charge a lot / give a lot). Yeah, just saying.
Ryan Neinstein, MD: Okay. Thank That's so true. That's excellent. Never heard of that. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Catherine Maley, MBA: Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to charge a lot / give a lot.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Neinstein, you can reach out to his website at, NeinsteinPlasticSurgery.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Neinstein for sharing his wisdom on how to charge a lot / give a lot.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.
So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It's guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I've gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.
Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let's grow your cosmetic revenue.
-End transcript for βCharge a Lot, Give a Lot β with Ryan Neinstein, MDβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#increasesurgeryprofits #givebacktopatients #ryanneinsteinmd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and offsetting your overhead.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Offsetting Your Overhead β with Jason Pozner, MD".
Itβs common for surgeons to take out a huge loan and do a build out of their dream practice but then the bills to pay for all of it start coming in.
They quickly notice when the OR is idle and the exam rooms are empty, thatβs costing them money.
Itβs an uncomfortable feeling. Should they bring on another surgeon to help cover the costs? Should they hire a nurse injector to bring in more revenues? Should they get more creative?
In this Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode, I interviewed Dr. Jason Pozner, a board certified plastic surgery with 30 years experience of learning and training on the worldβs most advanced plastic surgery procedures, laser treatments and skin rejuvenation treatments.
Dr. Pozner is the founder of Sanctuary Plastic Surgery and co-owner of Sanctuary Medical Aesthetic Center in Boca Raton, FL.
He has experienced all the above scenarios. From expanding to almost going bankrupt to bringing in others to help (some good, some horrendous) and he finally found a balance that works.
Dr. Pozner dropped so many pearls, you want to hear this.
Visit Dr. Pozner's Website P.S. This Week Only! If you want better results from your advertising efforts, the solution is to fix your lead gen process. Iβll do it for you at a fraction of my usual fees. Watch this videoβ¦..
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
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#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#offsettingcosmeticsurgeonoverhead #offsettingyouroverhead #jasonpoznermd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and what happens if something happens to you.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "What Happens if Something Happens to You? β with Lawrence B. Keller, CFP".
Life happens. Your house can burn down. You can tear your ACS in a skiing accident. You can fall off a ladder and be off your feet for 6 weeks (those are just a few things that have happened to other surgeons I know).
So, to get you clearer answers for how to protect yourself when youβre not able to generate revenues like you used to, I interviewed an expert.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, Larry Keller, founder of Physician Financial Services, offered straight forward advice for you to set yourself to win no matter what happens.
For the past 31 years, he has worked with surgeons and physicians on income protection, wealth accumulation and asset protection. He offered great pearls for covering yourself if/when life goes sideways.
I think you'll find this helpful on what happens if something happens to you.
Visit Larry Keller's Website P.S. Get my hard copy book for free when you leave a review at Beauty and the Biz Podcast. Just follow the instructions below:
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
What Happens if Something Happens to You? β with Lawrence B. Keller, CFP Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and what happens if something happens to you. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's guest is not a surgeon. However, he's someone who does help surgeons protect themselves against life's surprises and what happens if something happens to you.
Now it's Larry Keller. He's founder of Physician Financial Services. He's a certified financial planner from New York, and he, for the last 31 years, he's worked with surgeons on income protection, wealth accumulation, as well as asset protection by providing them with services such as disability, income, and life insurance to help with answering what happens if something happens to you.
Larry Keller, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Oh, Catherine, thank you so much for having me. I am looking forward to it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. Now, βwhat happens if something happens to youβ is a tough topic that a lot of surgeons don't want to talk about. And usually, they don't until something happens. Personally, I know after being around for a long time, I know surgeons who like one guy fell off a horse and he was out for six weeks.
Another one had a ski accident. He was out for eight weeks. I actually know a couple who during the pandemic, they were in the I C U for months. So, things happen in life, they just do. So, we're going to try to simplify it here and give them some really good tips about βwhat happens if something happens to youβ, covering yourself when the stuff hits the fan.
Yes. So, let's start with one important question that I have on βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. Surgeons spend a lot on their medical malpractice insurance. Is that different? Disability and life insurance on βwhat happens if something happens to youβ.
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Yeah, it's completely different. And ironically, when you think about it, the surgeon goes out and they buy, you know, medical malpractice insurance and yes, it is to protect themselves and their assets, but it's really more about protecting their patients.
Because in the events something happens, their patients are going to be the ones that benefit that from that and not themselves. So, what we're talking about in its really basic context. Is at the end of the day, what happens if something happens to me? How do I take care of myself? How do I take care of my family?
And a lot of people, they just don't think about it. They say, I'm, I'm in medicine. I want to get into my practice. I want to do good work. I want to take care of everybody else. And unfortunately, very often, they neglect to take care of the most important person, you know, the.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, you, so the medical map, so you're not involved in that part of it at all.
You're involved in more the disability and the life insurance part and βwhat happens if something happens to youβ, right?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Yeah. I'm much more on the, the personal insurance side and the, we will talk about this. There are some business overlaps and situations where insurance is used in the business side, and I'm familiar with medical malpractice and property and casualty agents and things like that.
Different specialty. Just like you have a face, say a facial plastic surgeon, and then you have a reconstructive plastic surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. On this show we only talk about cash medicine, which helps with βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. That's my specialty. I only do cash.
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: I like it. I like it. We, we'll focus in on the aesthetic and cash medicine, but the planning is going to be very similar.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, what types of insurance should plastic surgeons consider when they're, when they want to cover βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. What, what are you asking them? What are you looking for?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Okay, so the first thing that they should do, and this is whether they're in a private practice, whether they're in a hospital-based practice, whether they're in their in a large group, is they really want to have their individual.
Ideally own occupation. Some people use the term own specialty, but that's not technically correct. And this is a policy that very simply put is if our surgeon is disabled and they can no longer perform their job duties, do it to an accident or sickness. Money is going to be paid to them so they can meet their expenses and maintain their lifestyle.
Now, ideally, what we want this policy to be is own occupation. And what it's going to say is, Catherine, if you're a plastic surgeon, and God forbid you are disabled, and you can no longer do your job duties as a plastic surgeon. We're going to pay you your full disability insurance benefit. You can do whatever you want.
You can make as much money as you want in another occupation or another medical specialty. Some policies, it's actually one company specifically has something that's called an enhanced medical specialty definition. And this could work potentially very well for your audience. And what this says is if more than 50% of your income is derived from invasive or surgical procedures, Even if you could still do some of your other job duties.
Maybe you had an array of jobs, you had your medical practice, but you also ran a men spa and you earned a significant amount of money from that. But more than 50% of your income was derived from performing your surgical duties. You're still deemed totally disabled. Full benefits are paid. You can remain in the same practice.
You can do a hundred. Overseeing of your medical spa and still get your full disability insurance benefit. That's the most liberal definition in the marketplace today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And do a lot of surgeons have that kind of coverage, or do you find that they're lacking in that with βwhat happens if something happens to youβ?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: I'd say if they're going to blow it somewhere, it's probably going to be in that area.
I mean, ideally, we're looking for own occupation, you know, plus or minus the enhanced medical specialty definition, because only one company offers that. It's relatively new, it's been around for about five years. But of the companies that have own occupation coverage, it's really going to be Berkshire, which is a guardian company, mass Mutual, standard Insurance Company emeritus.
Principal, Ohio National. Then you've got New York Life. They're not in every state. We've got Northwestern Mutual. They have now reentered the own occupation marketplace. So, if someone has their coverage for one of those companies, I would say they're probably okay. If they don't, the red flag should be going off and say, let me investigate.
That is what I think I have, what I actually do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when a, like, let's say a surgeon right now is saying to himself, I, I don't know, I don't know what my coverage is with βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. What would, if they're calling their insurance agent, what are they asking them? What is the question? Because I'm not sure what owned means.
Do you mean if the solo practitioner who, who has his name on the practice and needs to cover βwhat happens if something happens to youβ, is that an owned occupancy? Occupancy?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: No. So own occupation is really just specific to the job duties that you are perform. And if you can't do those, your benefit is going to be paid even if you're working in another capacity. So, what I would say to my agent is, Hey, I know we've done disability insurance together.
I just want to confirm that my policy has an own occupation definition. Let me just clarify. This means if I'm a plastic and a reconstructive surgeon and an accident or sickness prevents me from doing that. I can work in another occupation or even medical specialty. I see. And still get my full benefit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So that's a new trailer because oftentimes they just get it if they can't and it no longer re like generate revenues. Is that the point, in terms of βwhat happens if something happens to youβ?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Correct. So, you will find, we call this an own occupation and not engaged definition. Mm-hmm. So, it would read, don't want to bore you with the legalese, but it would say something.
Catherine, we will deem you totally disabled if you're unable to perform the material and substantial duties of your occupation, and you are not gainfully employed, right? So ideally, we don't want to see anything after unable to perform the material and substantial duties of your occupation, period.
Meaning if you are engaged in another occupation or specialty, there's no impact to you. Gotcha.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Very interesting in regards to βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. That's a really good pearl, I think. So how do you talk to a surgeon who's like young? He's like, you know, he's single. He doesn't know yet exactly where he is going to be forever. He's, he's going to, he is going to set up shop in Austin, Texas and hope for the best.
Like, how would you prepare him to cover himself versus all the other scenarios of βwhat happens if something happens to youβ?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: So, figure all the other scenarios, if it's a larger practice or a multi-specialty clinic, they're probably going to have some kind of long-term disability coverage provided to them. Here we have an individual where not only are they the business, They're also relying a hundred percent on themselves for their income.
So, if an accident or sickness prevents them from doing their job, like where is the money going to come from? Like at the very end of the day, I would say everybody we're just well-educated money machines, and if the machine breaks down, no more money is getting spit out. So, the first thing that they should do is exactly what we said.
They should have an individual. Ideally own occupation, disability insurance policy that pays them their full benefit if they can't do what they were doing, regardless of what else they can do or actually choose to do. Now, the second one is because they're in their own practice. If they're new, they're probably going to try to run their practice on the cheap.
I would imagine you would tell them that's what you should be doing. You know, maybe you'll get someone that answers the phone, but if you're going to spend money, you could be a great surgeon. But if no one knows that you. It doesn't matter. Let's do a feasibility study. Let's look what we're going to do to bring patients in the door to keep you busy.
But if they have staff, they have malpractice insurance, they have rent, they have fixed overhead. And this is stuff that patients are not going to reimburse for, like breast implants or Botox or Ru JuvΓ©derm or Restylane. They're on the hook for those expenses. So, there's another policy that we buy that's called a disability overhead expense policy.
And this just like the personal money goes to the doctors so they can maintain their lifestyle and meet their expense. This one actually, the money goes to the practice. They use that to pay the expenses in the practice, and now they know they either have a practice to go back to, or if they're not going back, they're going to be able to sell it as a plastic surgery office, rather than, Hey, you know what, I'll take 10 cents on the dollar.
I'm just hemorrhaging money here and things are not going to end.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I would say no, the majority of the surgeons I work with are solo practitioners. They have to find their own insurance to cover them with βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. There's no, you know, HR benefit waiting for them. But that, that just reminded me, where does workers comp fit into all of this?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: So, work as comp, if it's just you. Yeah, you don't have to have it on yourself because you are an owner, but it's mandatory. You have to have it for your employees. So, depending upon the state that you're in, you know the state might have a website that you could sign up for that. Or if you're talking to your property and casualty or p and c agent, this is going to be the person that's going to do your business interruption.
Like what happens if there's a flood and you're in an office building and now you can't use your practice? For months. What happens if there's an earthquake? You know, any type of thing. So that's the agent that you would go to and you'd say, can you set me up with my worker's compensation, my office pack?
That's going to ensure, you know, their equipment, that's going to ensure something happens where I can't go into my practice. But that's really going to be more like acts of God. This is going to be, you cannot work, you cannot perform your job duties as a surgeon because of an accident or sickness. It's not the office that's broken, it's you that's broken.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's interesting. The surgeon that the surgeon I know really well, he had a 6,000 square foot home burned down in 45 minutes. And he wasn't there, but, and it didn't preclude him from still doing surgery, however, he needed to spend some time, you know, it was a huge loss and it, it, it interrupted him, but not, it wasn't catastrophic because he was, he's really set up, he's got a great team who was like covering for the βwhat happens if something happens to youβ and he had other surgeons in there.
Mm-hmm. But is that kind of thing covered, or what do you call that, that, you know, the bumper sticker that says βShit happensβ, as in βwhat happens if something happens to youβ like, yes, where does that fit into this?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: This would really be because it wasn't a business thing and it was his home. That's really going to be his homeowner's insurance, and unfortunately, he probably lost a lot of time from his practice.
I'll, I'll go one step further. This is probably not him. But let's say, because his home went up in flames, it was so devastating. Mm-hmm. that, you know, he now has mental and nervous issues like anxiety, depression, stress, and because of that, he can't work. Some policies are going to cover those types of claims for a limited period of time, like anxiety, depression, stress, chemical dependency, drug addiction.
Other policies are going to give you a choice. Like Catherine, our base policy has a limitation. If you don't want that, you can buy a policy that has unlimited coverage for those types of things. And there was a study that was done, believe it or not, it's in the Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, and they said at some point, 40% of US trained aesthetic surgeons are going to deal with burnout in their career.
And if it gets to the point where the burnout is so bad and you are seeing a psychiatrist, or you're seeing a therapist and maybe you're on medication and you legitimately cannot work, a disability insurance policy can actually pay for that. Mm-hmm. So, a lot of people, when we think about mental and nervous conditions, they're thinking like doctors, right?
Dementia as a result of a stroke, a trauma, head injury, viral infection. Parkinson's, I've got this physical condition. I can no longer perform my job duties as a surgeon, even with a limitation. That stuff's going to be covered. I'm thinking more like the insurance guy stuff. Anxiety, depression, stress, chemical dependency, drug addiction.
Now, certain states like California, every policy in California has to have a limitation for those types of claims. But what if you're in a state like New York? And your plan is to move to California and start your practice. I would say you better buy your policy when you're in New York, so you could take it with you when you make it to California.
And if you don't want a limitation, you don't have to have one. Now, another fun fact, and you might be testament to this, is the state of California as far as disability insurance claims go is the highest of every. People in theory would rather be on the beach than in the operating room or clinic, and claims experience actually demonstrates this.
So, California happens to also be the most expensive state for disability insurance compared to all others. So, I don't know, maybe I practiced for a little bit. I decided I wanted to go back and do a facial plastic surgery fellowship, and I'm not in California doing my fellowship. Maybe I'm in. If I buy my policy in Illinois and I know I'm going to move back to California, I can get a better policy for less money.
So really, really important in terms of that. Now, ironically, And this kind of ties into surgery, you know, we know the difference. You and I and your listeners know the difference between a cosmetic surgeon and a board certified, let's say, plastic and reconstructive surgeon or a board-certified facial plastic surgeon.
Does the consumer know that? Absolutely not. They say if you're out, you're practicing, you've got a white coat on or a nice. You're a surgeon. You know, you might have done family medicine and now you're talking to people about breast implants, but very different. It's kind of the difference between getting a result and getting closer to the ideal result.
Insurance is no different, so I always say it's like that movie taxi driver, you're talking to me. You better know who you're talking to. Like how many surgeons do they work with? How long have they been in the industry? What companies do they recommend most often? And why? How familiar are they with what it is that you do?
And you are not spending any more money to work with, let's say, an experienced agent or financial advisor than you are with what I'll call a newly minted agent. Like, it's like Apple. The rates are the rates, and the only way one person can beat out another is to know of or have access to a discount, then another person doesn't.
Otherwise, if we set things up the same way with the same. It's going to be exactly the same. So, I always find that to be interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you know, I was always taught like, get insurance when you're healthy to help with βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. You know? Is that still like that? Like are you better off getting really great coverage? When you're young, and then hopefully it, it can't keep increasing on you as the years go on, or does that work still?
Or how, how does that work? Yeah, that's still, and as you add more kids to the mix and you just more liability to the mix with βwhat happens if something happens to youβ.
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Yeah. That, that still works. Great. The premise behind it is this, You almost have to buy it before you know you need it, because once you know you need it, it's too late. So ideally, a lot of times I'll meet someone as early as residency or fellowship, and they'll tell me what their specialty is.
I'll ask them some medical questions. Ideally, they're in good shape. And I'll say, Hey Catherine, look, I can get you policy with any number of companies. It's ideally going to be own occupation like we discussed. It's going to have some other features to it, like a partial benefit. If you can work on a limited basis, it's going to increase in the event of your disability after a year.
We just call that the cost-of-living adjustment rider, but you hit it on the head. We want to have the ability to buy more coverage in the future regardless of your health, as long as your income is. And ideally you want to be able to do this every year or at least every few years without ever answering medical questions or doing an exam, blood test, urine test.
You literally want to just say to your agent or the insurance company, this is how much I'm earning, this is the other coverage I have, whether it's individual or let's say someone happened to be hospital based and they have a group insurance plan. And then we'll come back and we'll say, Katherine, you're eligible for an additional monthly benefit of.
Tell me how much of that you want. Do you want all of it, some of it, or none of it? And there's different rules depending upon the increase option on there. But you really want to set up your foundation before anything happens. Because once it happens, you might not be dead, you might not be disabled. But suddenly things that are very concerning to you are also to the insurance company.
So, a great example with surgeons would be, Bilateral carpal tunnel and you're like, Larry, I heard I got to get insurance. Maybe I'm a little late to the game. Can you get me something? I heard you're good. And I'm like, yeah, I tend to think that I'm pretty good also, let me ask you a couple questions. Oh, yeah.
You know, I got a little numbness and tingling in my hands and wrists and forearms. Okay. Have you seen anybody? Oh, well I had an MR and it's the beginning of bilateral carpal tunnel, or I had an EMG doc. Great news. I can get you a. It's not going to cover either or both of your hands, wrists, or forearms.
You deal with physicians all the time. What do you think the response to that is? Not good. Not good. Larry, are you kidding me? Do you know what I do for a living? I'm a plastic and reconstructive surgeon. I use my hands, wrists, or forearms all day. And let me get this straight. You are telling me you can get me a policy that's not going to cover my hands, wrists, or forearm.
So, if this gets to be so bad that I can't do surgery, you are not going to pay me. And the answer is, that's correct. I'm not going to pay you. You should have purchased it before you had this issue. If you had an increase option, we could have bought more and I wouldn't even be asking you about your medical history.
So yes, you hit that right on the head.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the βwhat happens if something happens to youβ pearl is plan ahead. And itβs just regarding partnerships because a lot of surgeons start out, let's say they start out solo or they finally leave the hospital, they go solo. Now they're going to bring on some more people. Is everyone just getting their own individualized insurance or when does it make more sense to try to combine things?
Although that gets so complicated with surgeons. But are you better off doing a group policy for βwhat happens if something happens to youβ, if you can get along?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: No, usually you want to do an individual policy first, because that's going to give you the better definitions. There's not going to be offsets to it. Once you maximize that and currently, no matter how much money you may have for them, the maximum that you can have for individual disability insurance is $30,000 a month.
To get that, you'd normally have to have an income about. 1,000,200 50,000. Now some companies will do a little less because we do something that's called a business owner upgrade. And we know you have some personal expenses. You might be pushing through your business and that's okay once you have the $30,000 maximum or you've reached your potential and you're like, it's just never going to get any better.
But you want. At that point, I would introduce a group insurance plan, and you could cover the other physicians. You can cover your office staff. No, plus or minus a short-term disability plan, maybe a group life insurance plan, but let's say you don't even have that. It's just you in your practice, you have staff, but you are the only surgeon.
You are killing it. You're earning, you know, $3 million. You've got your $30,000 a month, and you're figuring the percentage of my income that's being replaced is so small, it's really not going to do much for me. Then we go to Lloyd's of London. And when I say Lloyd of London, everyone starts to think like J Lo and I'm going to ensure my butt, or things like that.
No. Lloyds of London is great for certain occupations that the traditional carriers don't want, like singers or professional athletes or creative writers, but they're also very good for high income professionals where they're way beyond what the traditional carriers want. So, Lloyds of London would say something like, Catherine.
We'll do 65% of your income. We'll subtract out the other coverage that you already have. You can buy that difference. We only pay for a limited period of time. Let's say it's five years, but you can electively purchase a lump sum when you apply for the policy that says, Hey, if I'm a plastic surgeon and I'm still disabled at the end of five, And I'm not expected to ever be able to go back to plastic surgery.
Now, it'll pay a lump sum of a couple hundred thousand to a couple of million dollars to replicate as if the policy was going to pay benefits to the age of 65 or longer. Some other types of policies, which are interesting, so someone wouldn't do it on you, but let's say that you're in a plastic surgery office.
You know, it's you, you've got your injector, you've got your maybe pa. But you have a really good in-house marketing team that's doing your social media, and you are one of the few plastic surgeons that have really figured this out, and your patients are really coming in as a result of this person's efforts.
You can actually buy a disability insurance policy on that individual. We'll call this a key person insurance policy that if they're disabled, Money comes to your practice because you got to find somebody else. Same thing is true. If you and I were in practice, well, what happens if I become disabled? Now?
You have to run the whole practice. Maybe you have to hire someone else if I can't come back. So, there should be something in our agreement that's called a disability buyout agreement. And we have an agreement. We go to an attorney, we set the value in our practice. Usually there's a formula and if I become disabled, this triggering event is going to be funded because that's all it is with the insurance.
I find a lot of these buy sell agreements funded for. But not disability. And disability is much more likely than death among a young surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, that's a really good point in regards to βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. By the way, what is you've been around a long time. Everyone used to retire at 65, and I just feel like that's so archaic at this point.
And that must be just causing chaos in the insurance business because a lot of surgeons, they're doing just fine at 72. They're not even thinking about retiring yet. Is that affecting your, like the decisions that you are or, or the suggestions you're giving to the surgeons to cover those βwhat happens if something happens to youβ scenarios?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Believe it or not, not really.
When you think about it for disability insurance, I really only want to get my surgeons from point A to point B, so point A, let's go all the way to the beginning. They're a PGY one. They're a newly minted resident. They have no money. They have no assets. They have a lot of debt, but they have a lot of academic and intellectual skills.
And then they've got the physical skills right here. Well, that's what their disability insurance is going to cover as their career progresses. They're going to pay down their debt, they're going to accumulate wealth. They're going to save for their retirement. They're going to pay for their kids' college education if that's what they're looking for.
And they're going to create a lot of assets. And at that point they're really working because they love what they do. They've honed their craft, they're good at it, but they can self-insure at that point. They don't need the insurance. Same thing is potentially true with life insurance. Now, if I'm in practice with you, and let's say you are a young physician, young plastic surgeon, and I'm the older guy, but my plan is to sell the practice to.
And I tell you, Catherine, I'll stick around for, I don't know, six months, a year, two years, three years. I'll make sure that the introductions are there and the patients know who you are. You'll buy the practice. For me, that's all well and good. If you have money, I'm okay. But what happens if you become disabled?
What happens if you die? I might never get that money. So that all ties into that buy sell agreement. And if I'm the older doctor looking to exit, I would want to make sure I had insurance on the younger guy that's funding my retirement. But at the end of the day, I would say the disability insurance and life insurance for an older surgeon, it's really just not there unless they want to leave money to charity.
unless they have, God forbid a disabled child because they're going to outlive you and financially, they're not going to be able to survive. And this could be some of your audience, but the limits are really high. So, let's say the two of us are married. There is something that's called estate taxes, whereas success tax and currently husband and wife together can leave in excess of 20 million with no taxes.
But what if those limits go? Or what if we're way above that? Let's say together we're 10 million over the limit, between insurance policies, between my practice, you know, maybe your practice, maybe you are working in my practice and of the 10 million overage, 6 million is going to go to the kids and 4 million is going to go to the government.
And you say, I, I don't want that to go to the go. Well now we could buy a policy that's called a survivorship life policy or a second to die policy. It ensures the two of us, if something happens to me, the guy always goes first. Nothing happens, but upon your death, that's when the estate taxes are due.
This policy pays out and we use that money to pay the estate taxes, and ideally, if we're doing it right, it's owned by what's called an irrevocable life insurance. And not only is the death benefit tax free, it's also estate tax free, but that's kind, so I would say advanced estate planning, but a lot of things that surgeons just don't think about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I know enough to know that that's super important to know about βwhat happens if something happens to youβ. So, I would look into that. And just my last question out of more of a curiosity I, I, once I watched one of those 48 hour shows and there was literally a plastic surgeon on there that had, who had faked his death. Ha, Do you have any of those bizarre stories for real life that you.
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Yes, I, I've got one, not a client of mine. For those of you that like entertaining stories, you can just Google it. It's been on 48 hours. It's kind of well-known because it was local to me. So, you can Google Jeffrey Locker, l o c k e r, murder. Now, when I first came into the industry 32 years ago, I met Jeff Locker.
He was a motivational speaker. He was about five nine. He was into martial arts. He was a good-looking guy and his job was to take people like me. And try to bring it to the next level. So essentially, he was a Catherine Maley to surgeons. He was that to the insurance agent, and he knew the rules. He had a lot of clients that were insurance agent.
He helped a lot of them become very successful at marketing their practice and their services. Well, believe it or not, he invested in a Ponzi scheme and he lost a tremendous amount of. And as a result of that, he was in financial straits and he had a lot of insurance. He had 8 million of insurance. He was married, he had three kids, and he knew that if he bought more insurance and he committed suicide, his family could not collect If it was in the first two years of the policy ownership, this is what's known as the contestable period.
But if he was murder, His family could collect. So, he went out and he bought another 8 million of life insurance. He completely lied about his financial situation. In fact, he said he was going to replace the first 8 million, which he did not. He was approved for the policy. Now he's insured, so now he's struggling.
How am I going to leave my family in good straits if my plan is to commit suicide, because that's not going to be covered under the insurance. So, he drives to Harlem. For those of you that don't know, it's a relatively dangerous area in New York state. He finds a guy that's about six four, that's an ex-con, and he says, I'm going to give you my bank card.
I need you to kill me. And he's in his car. He gives the guy his bank card, the guy takes some money out of the, the, the bank account with the cash card and he murders Jeff Locker. And he will say, oh, well, Mr. Locker thrust himself on the knife when he was sitting in the car. And that maybe that's true, maybe that's not, but he also stamped him multiple times in the heart, chest aorta, and he got caught and it went to the courts.
And the whole thing was, what is this a. And we pay, or was this a homicide or a suicide and we don't pay. It was deemed to be a homicide and his family collected and they found all sorts of text messages and emails to his family. This is what you need to do to manage the money after I pass away. Tell your sister I love her very much.
I'm doing this for you guys. So sometimes the truth is crazier than anything we could ever make.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Who would kill themselves by stabbing. Why? I want something a lot faster. That's crazy.
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Yeah. Well, remember you couldn't take pills because that would be suicide. So, it had to be something that was deemed a homicide.
Well, would be better than stabbing would definitely, any of that stuff would work. In fact, that probably would've been cleaner. Yeah. Is he going to shoot himself? I, I don't know. So, this was really, the whole case was deemed like, Dr. Kavian of the insurance World, and this happened 2009, but it really was in every newspaper where I was in New York on Long Island every day for years.
And then after it ended, it was still in the paper for a significant amount of time. So, there you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. That's crazy. And with that, we are going to end it there. Larry, how can doctors get ahold of you if they now realize they might have some insurance questions about βwhat happens if something happens to youβ scenerios?
Lawrence B. Keller, CFP: Yeah. So very easy. You can email me.
It's l keller, lkeller@physicianfinancialservices.com. You could certainly call me at (516) 677-6211. I'm happy to review coverage that you have now. I'm happy to discuss with the insurance you might be considering or should be considering. But view me as a resource. Thankfully in the beginning, everyone's a hand surgeon, right?
Anything you can get your hands on, and then after you've been around for a while, you realize, this is what I'm good at. This is what I'm not so good at. This is what I like to do. This is what I don't like to do. So, use me as a resource, have no fear. I am happy to help any way that I can.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on βwhat happens if something happens to youβwith special guest, Lawrence B. Keller, CFP.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Larry Keller, you can reach out to his website at, www.PhysicianFinancialServices.com.
A big thanks to Larry for sharing his expertise on βwhat happens if something happens to youβ.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for βWhat Happens if Something Happens to You? β with Lawrence B. Keller, CFPβ.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#surgeonlifeinsurance #cosmeticsurgeonfinancialplanning #plasticsurgeonfinancialplanning
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Burke Robinson, MD went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "40-Surgeon Practice to Solo β with Burke Robinson, MD".
I am fascinated by surgeonsβ stories that relay their jagged paths from fellowship to where they are today.
Nobodyβs path was a smooth one and nothing went scheduled as planned.
Thatβs life. Itβs full of surprises, twists and turns and the secret is to adapt to these challenges and grow (or give up and settle for less).
This weekβs special guest Dr. Burke Robinson knows this well and decided to grow.
He is a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon with 30 years of experience in private practice in Alpharetta GA.
Dr. Robinson had a tough childhood start but managed to become a surgeon in spite of it, and then he ended up in a 40-surgeon ENT practice for years.
Like others who had the calling for βmoreβ, he finally spread his wings and went out on his own.
We talked about the challenges he faced, what it took for him to finally make the move to private practice and pearls learned along the way.
He also gives a really good tip for buying a laser ;-)
Visit Dr Robinson's Website P.S. Get my hard copy book for free when you leave a review at Beauty and the Biz Podcast. Just follow the instructions below:
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
40-Surgeon Practice to Solo β with Burke Robinson, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty in the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's episode is with Dr. Burke Robinson, whoβs has experience going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Now he's a board-certified facial plastic surgeon with 30 yearsβ experience. He's in private practice with two offices in Alpharetta and Atlanta, Georgia. Now, Dr. Robinson has been nationally recognized as an expert facial plastic surgeon by peers and patients alike.
He's lectured at medical conferences around the world, which is how I know him, and he is regularly invited to speak on this subject of facial plastic surgery to. Now, Dr. Robinson enjoys numerous awards for his commitment to excellence in patient care, education, and safety that include "Castle Connolly's Top Doctors", as well as "Best of Georgia" and "Top Doctor" in Atlanta Magazine for eight years in a row.
It's a good accomplishment how he went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Now, Dr. Robinson is a huge proponent of giving back to his local community, and he supports many. Community events and nonprofit organizations. Dr. Robinson, thank you so much for joining me on Beauty and the Biz.
Burke Robinson, MD: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, Catherine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, thanks so much.
So, tell me why facial plastic surgery, who grows up saying, I want to be a facial plastic surgeon and go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: That's a great question. Well, really it goes back to what I did in college. I worked in an emergency room as an orderly or a tech. And my two responsibilities were a trauma room. This is before we really had level one trauma centers.
So, I'm dating myself and the suture rooms where all the lacerations were taken care of. And the thing I enjoyed the most was somebody who came in like Humpty Dumpty, a laceration that was like a Stella laceration. Very complicated. And the ER doctor would refer it on. To the plastic surgeon to come in and put them back together.
And I had the pleasure of first assisting the plastic surgeon in the ER as they put everything back together. And it just amazed me every time how I'd look at it in my novice way and go, I don't know what they're going to do for this one. And yet they would pull a miracle out of the hat and the patient would go home looking almost normal again.
So, I think it started there and then, Going into medicine and starting medical school. Of course, early on you want to be everything you're studying at the moment, cardiology, you know, whatever it is at your rotation. But it always came back to wanting to use my hands and being able to do something that could be seen by others.
And so, the beauty of facial plastic surgery is the combination of those two.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Now I had been, I read your bio and you started off in a huge ENT practice with 40 surgeons, before you went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Correct. What was that like? I can't imagine 40 surgeons making a decision about toilet paper, let alone running a business
So how, how did that go and when did you go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah, it was, it was a good thing. It wasn't chefs, so there would've been knives flying everywhere. Right. It was it really was a good experience overall because I made a lot of real good friends who are still good friends and colleagues of mine to this day. And they were some of my referral sources.
I was the only facial plastic surgeon in a E N T group of over 40. E n t surgeons. But we were at one time, even from what I was told, bigger than Mayo Clinic, we had four pediatric ENTs. We had head and neck oncologist, et cetera. So, it was nice to be a subspecialist early on. Made a lot of good friendships.
I learned a lot from them. They learned from me. But you know, as you alluded to, at the end, after six years, it was just unyielding and, you know, everybody wanted to be in charge and nobody wanted to be the Indian. And so unfortunately the, the group dissolved. To this day I still have some very good friendships with many of those people in there, and we refer back and forth as we can.
But most importantly, it really jettisons me into where I am now because now, I've been in my solo practice for 21 years and it's the best thing I ever did for myself. And at that time, I was around 40 years old. I remember calling my dad and I always say my dad was the original motivational speaker.
He, he just knew what to say and when to. I was kind of confused, didn't know what to do. Do I try and hang in with the group that's dissolving, go on my own, do I move somewhere, whatever. And, and one of the options was to go out on my own in Atlanta, and it seemed daunting to me, and yet I thought that was the right move.
And his common sense was, well, son, if you don't do it now, when are you going to do it? And after that I was like, yep, it's time. And ever since then, I've never looked back. I thought I'd missed the camaraderie, but my camaraderie is really not people I see face to face, but people I talk to see at meetings or, you know, during a year's time.
And as a result, I was able to have a lot of independence. I rarely missed a child's event. Was able to take vacations when I wanted, how long I wanted. And in the end, all the ups and all the downs I've gotten to own and I'm very happy with my decision.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. What, what the audience doesn't know is we're both from Chicago.
Burke Robinson, MD That's right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But how did you end up in Georgia and go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: Well, yeah, it's kind of a long journey. We, I was born and raised in the suburbs of Chicago and we moved to Arizona when I was in high school because my dad, who was a businessman, he worked in the loop of Chicago, was injured the day before Thanksgiving, when I was in eighth grade.
and had a severe neck injury, and so we had to move out of the cold, damp environment to the desert for his rehabilitation. So that's how we ended up in Arizona. So, I finished high school in Phoenix and did college in med school in Tucson, and then from there did my residency in the University of Minnesota.
So, I went from the desert. Back to the Tundra. And then I did my fellowship with Davinder Mange after my residency and did some research along the way at Walter Reed as a n I H fellow, and then was recruited by the group that we just talked about here in Atlanta and ended up landing here. And it seemed like a great way to get started in a major city because I knew for what I wanted to do, which was elective cosmetic surgery, I really needed to be in a bigger environment and Atlanta suited it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Perfect. Gotcha. What now did you stay with e n t or facial plastic surgery or reconstructive? How did, how did you, obviously you had to start with reconstructive probably to get the thing going, but where are you at now with that versus cosmetic surgery and going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: Right now, I'm 100% cosmetic with no insurance, and that's a journey that takes a long time, and there's two schools of thought, as you know, consulting One is you jump off the deep end and you just do that from the beginning.
The other end is if you've been trained in an E N T residency, you start off doing that and build your cosmetic practice along the way. I did the ladder and I'm glad I did it that way. A lot of the referrals I had early on in building my career were from nurses, anesthesiologists, dermatologists, doing MO'S reconstruction.
They saw my demeanor; they saw how I handled situations. They could see that it was different from other people and built a lot of trust in the medical community that really started the groundswell. Once you then had those referrals from those type of referral sources, then your patients became your ambassadors and it builds, you know, and compounded from there.
So even though you know, it's not a, anyone who's done a fellowship in facial plastic surgery does not want to go back to general E N T or doing reconstruction, I don't think it's a bad necessary evil. I think there's a lot of prose to it, and it builds you. The respect in the medical community and amongst patients to this day, I will occasionally have a patient may have taken their kids' tonsils out 20 years ago, and they still remembered from the way I had my office decorated, which was strictly an aesthetic.
Practice. I didn't have Mr. Larynx on the wall. It was everything spoke about facial plastic surgery. They will come in and say, yeah, you took care of my kid 20 years ago and now I'm here. I want to do my eyelids, or I want to do my facelift. That's very complimentary because they saw me as being a good surgeon, not necessarily what I did, but also just being a good surgeon for how I treated their family.
Catherine Maley, MBA: In my experience in today's world, I, I'm not sure you can live off of the referrals anymore because of the way the insurance is set up. And I just think it's so difficult to dabble in cosmetics. There are too many competitors who just eat, drink, and sleep cosmetic, so it's really tough to compete when you are not in it 24 7 like your competitors are, or they're willing to spend more for to help them when going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Cosmetic patient than you are, because it's just so difficult. I, I hear you. Like I used to say, just jump, you know, just jump. Right. But then we've all been through a recession for, in 2008. It's like, let's not jump yet, you know, So I, I, I hear you. I don't know what the real answer is, but I was staying on the fence, I don't think is the right answer for today's world, but I could be wrong.
Burke Robinson, MD: Well, I think if you took my route, you have to understand that if you walked into that office, you had no idea what I did other than plastic surgery. Okay. Everything was built around that way, and that's why it quickly transitioned. And I used to laugh because it used to be they come in and they wanted their septum fixed and they're like, oh, I see your plastic surgeon.
Could you do my nose? Now? They'll come in and they'll say, I want my nose done. And., I saw in your bio that you're also e n T trained. Can you fix my septum? Yeah. That's when you know you've arrived.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. that that's going to always be your biggest issue with the I need my septum. And while you're there, can you just take care of that bump, right?
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's going to, that, that comes up. I, how often does that come up and how does that relate to going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: All the time. Yeah, yeah. But at this point, my, I mean, I've been mature in cosmetics for a good 15 years. So, the first five years-ish was, you know, a transition. And then after that it, I haven't looked back.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now, are you the only one that obviously you're the only one doing surgery, but I also saw you have a PA and an RN.
Where are they fitting into this and your goal of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? And are, and I noticed you're doing quite a bit, you have a full-on med spa with offering tons of nonsurgical. Treatments because that's another huge investment. Can we just talk about that? Because others are afraid to put that investment in, but how important is it to have a surgical slash nonsurgical practice in today's world?
Burke Robinson, MD: It's imperative, as you were talking about in today's world.
In, in today's world, you will not make it in this space without doing nonsurgical treatments, and we can break that down further to med spa and injectables. If you're not doing injectables and you say, I just have a surgical practice, you're not going to thrive. In my world, I, I always make the point that injectables don't replace surgery, and surgery doesn't replace what injectables can do.
They complement each other. Mm-hmm., and I think it's really important if you want to be a good business. That you have people working hard under you, that you're not doing everything and you know, pure profit is me in the operating., right? So, if I get injectors to do the injectables, I can be in the operating room more, which is a higher cell and a higher profit rate for the business overall.
Mm-hmm. So, I, I've done a lot of trainings. I'm a trainer for Galderma, so I've been around the country for 17 years teaching others how to do injectables. And the practices that are successful are the surgeons that are willing to let go of the injectable practice. And let the injectors get those patients not compete with them because they're going to be making more and more money for you while you're in the OR.
Okay. And you build them up, you keep the pricings the same if you have good mature injectors, which I do. Both of them been doing it for almost 15 years each. You'll do much better financially and you'll have less stress and you can focus more on what you're really meant to do, which is surgery. I still do some injectables, fill in some time, but I would never make it doing what I do just in injectables.
So, I would strongly encourage everyone to always be looking at getting some mid-level if the state laws require it and have them be working hard underneath you and get good people and then pay them. What they're deserving. Don't, don't hold back because they will work hard for you. And then separate from that, we have, we have our two injectors and we're already looking for our third, which is great because the two now are booked out a couple months and they're full-time.
But then we also have an esthetician and she's been with me for 24 years and she's amazing at what she does. And as you said, offering the lasers, the cyan, the b l, the halo. Peels, everything from as simple as doing the I'm blanking on it now. HydraFacials all the way up to doing broadband light and inhaler resurfacing, having that whole spectrum and everything in the middle again, allows the patient to find a space in your office so they're not ready for surgery or they've had surgery.
I always make sure. Then they go through the med spa and they do their assessment to tell them, here's what you do to maintain your investment long term, and those patients keep coming.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the secret to that and how that ties in with going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. I'm telling you; I am that patient that goes up and down that ladder. I've had enough surgery at this point.
I don't want any more surgery right now. What else you have? You know, and Right, and I'll stay put. You give me, what else do you have? And now I'm loving. The lasers have come a really long way. The downtime's not half as bad as it used to be on certain treatments. I mean, you're getting, you're getting as much revenue out of me in between the surgical.
Because there's so many more things to do in regards to going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. It's amazing if you have all the time and the money in the world, it's shocking. It's, it's shocking what you can do in today's world. You can go... I mean from the tip, you know, from top to bottom. You can tighten every body part you can. Fill in anything you want, you can undo.
It's just shocking what you can do nowadays. So, I couldn't agree more. Keep, get that patient, keep them with you, but then also have a good understanding or a bridge between the two of you, between surgical and nonsurgical. Mm-hmm., because I have noticed a tendency for the nonsurgical staff to like hoard that patient because they don't want to lose them and that's not the right.
They'll come back, let him, let him have surgery and they'll come back to you later to help you go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Burke Robinson, MD: I agree. And I think on the flip side, for as the surgeon and the head of the business, you know, every patient at their six-week follow-up gets automatically sent. To, to either the injector or, you know, if I have time I'll inject, but usually I'll send them to the injector because I know they'll be able to do the return, return routine business because my schedule's too busy with surgery and they automatically are sent to go see my aesthetician as well.
Because the patient at six weeks post-op is like a bird in the nest. And they'll do whatever you tell them to do because they're so happy. So, if you say, look, now this is what we're going to do to take you to the next step. They want to know what else they can do. They want to know what is my next step in this journey.
And I always tell them, you and I are done for a while walking down this path, but someone else is going to get on with you now and continue down the road. And they like to know that. And so, but it's so important that the, the surgeon says that they shouldn't have to go home and then go to your website and they, oh, they have an aesthetician.
Maybe I should call them, make an appointment. They get that appointment on their way out at that six-week visit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good job. Now it sounds, oh, do you have any tips on how to buy lasers and how that might relate to going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: No, that's all good., you and I were just at the Global Aesthetic Conference and my good friend Ross CLEs gave a great lecture on that.
I, I think you have to go slow. So, here's an example. We have a great laser. I love it. The cyan, halo, all that stuff. But then we, I won't say the brand, but we bought a skin tightening machine three years ago, and it's the best-looking door jamb I've ever bought. So now they have a new flavor that's come out.
Here's my recommendation because this is really what, what? Wherever meets the road, there's a new version of something out there. Again, I won't say the name, but I told the salesman, I said, I will rent the machine from you one day a month, three months in a row, and I'm going to treat my own patients with my pictures.
And then we'll look at them and we'll decide. And if it does what you're telling me it does, I'll buy two of them. But if it doesn't, I'm not buying it. So, we're now on our third month on a trial. I think that's the best thing to do with any of these devices is you should test drive it first, not just goes by their pictures, because you can be misled.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how is it going? Because skin tightening, I'm still very underwhelmed by it.
Burke Robinson, MD: I'm not feeling like I'm going to opening my checkbook anytime soon,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just, I, I wouldn't go there. I just wouldn't. There are too many things you can do to give somebody a really good result if you're going to make them wait.
Another thing is waiting three months. Patients. Nobody wants to wait anymore. Everything's become so instant. Right. I just, I wouldn't bank on anything that you can't see for real, like honestly honest photos, which helps in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. I just, good, that was a really good tip. Yeah. Don't jump in unless you know what the heck.
Like you see your own proof.
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. And, and another thing I've learned over the decades is being always honest. You know, you may have a car payment due, but that doesn't mean you should take advantage of the patient because you have a machine that doesn't really do anything. It's going to come back to bite you.
Right? And you'll get many more referrals with a patient who say, you know, we really don't have a great answer for what you want right now. They're going to tell five people that this guy is honest and they're going to send their friends. And as opposed to them blogging and about how you took their money and the thing didn't change how they look at all.
And so sometimes we have to bite the bullet and realize we bought something that doesn't work, instead of trying to push it on people and then pay a heavy price in social media.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. That changed everything, didn't it? Oh, yes. So, let's talk about staff and specifically, going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo, because it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on staff.
You've had them for a long time. Mm-hmm., what's the secret? Have you also experienced that post covid staff resignation, or where are you at with that?
Burke Robinson, MD: Yes. I think everybody has staff re or they call it a slow resignation. Yeah, after Covid I had two employees who were excellent. Both leave to get out of.
Oh, they just burned out and they left not because of working here. They, they just, they, they went in and went into sales and her husband bought it. The other one, her husband had a business and she wanted to go work with him, and she was very good and loved medicine. Yeah, we've had a problem off and on with the, the co-post covid slow resignation that's going on, and it's really hard.
In fact, I would say that's the hardest thing in running your own business is the. Human resources are the thing that I've always found the most challenging. I think, again, treat people how you want to be treated. When I was in that big group, there were times I didn't think I was treated with respect, and I didn't want to ever do that to an employee that I had if I went out on my own.
I think people need to be able to make a good wage reasonable for what they're doing for the business. And I, I also. Provide all the extras. I provide health insurance. We, they have their p t O off. We have medical what is it, 1 25? I can't, I think that's what it is. And I pay for everyone's lunch every day.
We get groceries every week. Everyone puts in what they want to eat and so they don't have to leave the office. So, they make whatever they want to eat. Trying, trying and do everything I can, you know, retreats do everything possible to make them know that they're appreciated and you know, it's a fine line because you don't want to become so close like family, but close enough that they know that they are appreciated.
Anytime I ever get an award, I always send my email and verbally say, we won this. I didn't win this. And I think when staff are treated with respect overall, you won't have a big revolving door going on. That being said probably the biggest mistake I've made in my career in owning a business is sometimes I hired from within and I should not have.
The Peter principal has shown up more than once in my office, and I own that. That's my fault. But you. Close to staff and you think they can do the next level job, and that's not always the case. And so, I'd recommend to your listeners think twice before you hire for a higher position from hiring within, you may want to keep that for outside.
There are advantages of keeping people within and promoting them, but you may be promoting them to a position they're really not capable of performing. And perhaps your personal. Appreciation for them can get in the way of your business decision.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then once you do that, it's difficult to demote them back to where they were, which can be contrary to being able to go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
It's getting all awkward. Yeah. But that's too bad that I don't find that happens as much. I'll tell you what I have learned that it's happened lately, which I've completely changed my stance on this. I used to have like a staff reward program and I mean, you give them like $250 a quarter as long as that new patient state that they referred, not patient, I'm sorry their friend.
You know, referred and then they stayed. So, they kept getting paid for it for that year. So, they got a thousand dollars, you know, to have this referral. The issue is if they leave, then the other person leaves. So now you lost two people at the same time, You know, so I thought, well, okay, that's not working out as well as it used to, so, no.
Yeah, I think it's always going to be a challenge because we, human beings are complex, you know, at the, at best, and circumstances change and life changes. I mean, it sounds like you've had a, a good run though, if you've had people that have been with you for more than five years. I think it's genius. You know, and you're feeding them quite well, which helps you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
I mean, I hope they appreciate that. That's a big deal and it does help with going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Burke Robinson, MD: I think they do. They show up by staying and working really hard. I think. It's a good mutual respect and, and they do everything I ask of them with a smile. You know, we always say a servant attitude is what you have to have here. This is Disney World for adult women, basically.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. How do you, how do you get that culture? I am shocked when I'm the consultant who's going to do a practice assessment on site. Shocked at the, some of the attitudes that I'm, they don't look up (which doesnβt help them if they went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo). They don't acknowledge me as I walk in or walk by. They don't smile. And I think really, you're, this is a fun medicine business.
You know, like you're not having fun and you're not have it. Let me have fun. I just How do you teach that to help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: That's a great question, Catherine, and I think. You teach it by demonstrating it, it's by your leadership of a servant attitude. There's nothing in this office that's below me that I wouldn't do.
Like if my medical assistant's busy, I'll grab a chart, I'll bring the patient back, I'll room, I'll take the pictures. I think everyone needs to see the leader being willing to do that. I think that's where it starts. And I also think Showing respect for everybody in the practice, no matter whether it's the administrator or the front desk person, they all have an important role and really one doesn't supersede the other one necessarily.
And I learned that because my first job in college was a clerk with the old IBM electric typewriter in the emergency room, typing out admission forms. and triaging patients. That was my first year in the er, and then the following years is when I became an orderly, but I realized what it was like to answer phones to deal with patients.
Through a window. And then it being you know, an orderly being on the nursing side, not the physician side, and seeing what made things easier for me and how I could be disrespected or respected. And I think learning that and then reproducing what I thought was appropriate when I would have my own business and people who were working for me, that I wouldn't make those faux PAs to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. So then do you still have two locations that maybe helped you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: We have our main location, as you mentioned, is in Alpharetta, the second location we are there off and on, it's down. It's with a cosmetic dermatology practice more inside Atlanta. You've heard of trading barriers? Mm-hmm., you know, so Atlanta's surrounded by an interstate and so you either live in the perimeter or outside the perimeter.
So sometimes you need to have a presence inside the perimeter because people in the perimeter just don't want to. Outside the perimeter to Alpharetta. Mm-hmm., but most of my time is spent in Alpharetta.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Because I know a lot of the practices, they have a satellite office and it's basically to attract just a, a bigger target audience, which in turn, would help them in in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
But then I, now I look at that and I say, I think we should do a cost benefit analysis of that for you to be out of the office commuting worrying about what's happening there when you are not there. But in your case, that was different. You. You didn't have to run this whole practice and staff it and all of that.
But I think again, in today's world, I think the complexity of that can often outweigh the advantage of it in terms of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Burke Robinson, MD: I agree. We were down there a lot more, 50 50, and it became complex. And that was still subleasing. That wasn't a whole separate office that I was responsible for. I was, it was a turnkey with a cosmetic dermatology practice.
So, it was really just show up, pop open your laptops. But even then, it just became, and it became confusing for patients. Mm-hmm., because they would think they're going to that location to see me and I was in the other office. Ah. So, we've. Limited it quite a bit now from going there, just for the reasons you said the complexity and you know, even though I was only paying for when I was there, just no reason to pay for it.
And I think as you become more known in your community and your reputation, people are willing to drive. It's like your hairdresser, if she went across town in San Francisco, you're probably going to go across town, right? Yep. Yeah, I think it's the same for. Mm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you have any plans to expand to help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo, or where you, I mean, you, you've been at this for 30 years, by the way.
You certainly don't look at, you're, you're holding up very nicely.
Burke Robinson, MD: I might. Thank you. What injectables can do for you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? This, this industry is amazing. So, what, do you have any plans like to grow or, or, or not grow to help or not help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. We're going to be hiring a third injector here in the next year now, cause our two injectors.
Crazy busy. And that's the nice thing about the market, as long as the economy can kind of hang in there the injectable world is only going to explode. It's not going to shrink, and you got to be a part of it. So that's the next step. And then I'd like to get down to four days a week instead of five and then bring a junior partner in.
That's what I'm looking for, you know, down the road in the next, I don't know, three to five years, somewhere in there. But I really enjoy what I'm doing. I think I'm at my best right now. Mm-hmm., I don't know what I'd do if I was off the whole week, but I would like to have three-day weekends, so the short-term goals, the injector, and then go to four days a week and then bring in a junior and then start to transition out, you know slowing down even more and doing more things than I like to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have any hobbies (besides going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo)? I know a lot of surgeons don't have any hobbies, like doing surgery is what they like to do. So, what else would you do? You know?
Burke Robinson, MD: Well, that, that is, you know, that is a problem for surgeons because we have to recreate ourselves because we've been so dedicated. I, I like to play golf.
I'm not good at it, but it's something I really enjoy. Yeah. And I do want to focus that on, cause I think I can really take me. My focal abilities and really hone in on that skill, but it's something of repetition. So, I enjoy doing that. I enjoy skiing in the winter, go out to Colorado several times. I enjoy doing those two things.
And, and dinking around the, the house, some of the gardening, not a lot, but a little bit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, I'm out here in by Lake Tahoe. Have you? No. Skiing out at Lake Tahoe. Squaw Valley. It's beautiful out here.
Burke Robinson, MD: I know. I, that's one area I have not skied yet. And I've heard the snow is different. It's a heavier snow than the powdery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But the weather's better. You know, it's like, it's a lot of spring skiing a lot of times. Yes. And that's now that I'm such a, I'm getting old. I don't, I don't want to fight the elements anymore, so I only go if I have to wear, you know, sunglasses. You know, it's got to be sunny. No, no wind.
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah, I'm jealous. That's a beautiful part of the country and I love Lake Tahoe. I can go there any time of year and have a great time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks. It's lovely. I need to get up there more often. So, but that was the business side of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Let's talk about the marketing to help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo because you're, you're in a very competitive area there.
Did you, how, how do you differentiate yourself from everybody else? And do you do it any differently now than you used?
Burke Robinson, MD: That's a great question. I, I don't know if I differentiate myself on purpose. I think what differentiates me is my honesty. Mm-hmm. and always giving my best and staying humble. I think that those the main things.
Staying true to what my roots are, which is sometimes facial plastic surgeons like to drift below the neck. Mm-hmm., and I think that dilutes you. That doesn't make you an expert anymore. I can't tell you how many times a week someone goes, I'm coming to you because you only work on the face. There are only pictures of the face.
All you talk about is the face. I want an expert like that. I don't want the brake guy working on my transmission. Right? And so that by itself is huge. So, you've already condensed down quite a bit. Who I am com because there's a lot of general plastic surgeons here and some of them are very good in the face too.
But PA I think patients are becoming very sophisticated in what they're looking for. And me staying true to that has been. I think what also differentiates a lot is reviews. Yep. You know, talking about marketing, I, I will say I was on the bandwagon really early with reviews, and if you Google and look, I, I have quite a few reviews and.
Anything I buy now; I go online and I do a review. Yep. I don't talk. I don't look at what the company says. I look to see what the buyer says and patients several a week like You have such great reviews, I just wanted to meet you in person and see if you're the right person. I think reviews differentiate you quite a bit and doing your best will be reflected in those reviews.
Everyone's going to get a bad review now and then just like the Four Seasons and the Ritz Carlton. But if, as Jeff Siegel says, the solution to pollution is dilution, as long as you're getting a lot of good positive reviews, those few negative reviews just really justify that. Those are all real. It's not, you know, your mom at home with an IP address cranking them out every day.
And so, I think, again, being who you truly are, and letting that be shown through patience and what they say about you differentiates you quite a bit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You also did a really good job with video testimonials from patients. Mm-hmm., that's the next step that I think we all, we all have to embrace video of The audience today is just too lazy to read or I don't know what's going on, but it's all very visual now and very entertaining.
And how did you, and, and it looks like you've did a, done a good job with that. Was there any secret to getting the patients to do it, which helps you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? Probably you asking was probably a good start.
Burke Robinson, MD: These are such great questions. So, let's go back to reviews for a second, then we'll go into that. I think the key of getting a review is I have to ask for it.
And a lot of surgeons can be timid, shy, or that's below them to ask for it. But like you said, you got to do it. If you want to get a review, you have to ask for it. Mm-hmm. and you need to get it in the moment. Don't send them a link because that's going to get lost in all their other social media. So, it's done in the exam room at that time.
That's critical. Now as far as getting patients to do video reviews, same. It's asking and it's me asking, not going. I don't want to ask them, send the marketing director in because she would turn around and say, no. The way it's going to work is you have to ask them and asking the patient directly. I just tell them; you have such an amazing result and I'd love to share it with other patients.
You have a great demonstration of. You know jowling that got resolved, or a tip that was under rotated and it's a beautiful rotation, blah, blah, blah, and they're already happy with the results. So that sweet spot again to me is at about six to eight weeks post-op. That's when you ask them, and rarely do they say no.
And I always preface it with, look, we have plenty of videos, which we do. There's no pressure. Mm-hmm., but I think you're well spoken. You look beautiful. Could we have you do a video testimonial? 90% of the time they say yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Who would say no to that? I mean, you're getting, you're good at the compliments that, that's helpful in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. I mean, complimenting them because you really do believe it. We're not going to put up something that's not a great result. We want a great result and we want you to be the one. And they're very ha they're very happy to do it. And then getting a great videographer. We have an amazing videographer. Here in Atlanta and he shows up after five o'clock and our marketing director and I'm there and that's when we shoot it.
And they've really got it down to Grease Lightning now, and they, they streamline it quite a bit and do a great job. So, I'm glad you've got to see them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh no, they're fantastic. I used to also, I have this strategy to help with going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo where if you're not going to focus on the. all the time. Then at least have a biannual or an annual photo shoot, and it's done on a Saturday.
Mimosas are helpful, or a little wine, and you have a videographer, a photographer, hairstylist, makeup artist wardrobe, like you, and it's all community service providers, so that helps with referrals and you make like a whole event out of it. And it's really fun. It's a fun thing to do. It's a pain in the neck.
It's like a, a, you know, planning a wedding almost. It's an, an event, but it, everyone's relaxed, it's fun, and it's all about, let me tell you, my story. The issue is the timing you catch. I need, you need to catch them when they're ecstatic, not just happy, frankly, they're not even going to remember six months from now.
Like, they're like, they're so used to it. They're like, no. Yeah, it was great. You know? No, we need them to say, changed my. You know, so anyway, there's no one easy way to do that. But boy, putting in the effort like you are and asking yourself, that's exactly how you do it and that ultimately helps in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Burke Robinson, MD: And I, and I think it's more important for the patients to say how they feel.
Yes, that's where the patient's bond than to me to be on a video. I mean, I'm, I'm in those videos, but I'm not really telling the story. The patients are telling their story and patients will find something that. That person on that video says that, you know, hooks them and they're like, that's how I feel, or that's how I want to say it, or that's what I want to look like.
And so, I think the focus should be the surgeon. Even though we all have the egos and we think it's all about us, it's really about the patient and they want to see how the patient turned out and what they say in their own words. It's been very powerful that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great. Are, are there other marketing strategies, tactics that are working better than ever or working now that or some that don't work anymore, in terms of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Like, what's working for you and what's not?
Burke Robinson, MD: You know, that's a good question. One thing is, You know, back in the day, and I'm old enough to remember where print was a big deal, right? Print marketing and being on right side inside, cover all that placement. I think print, it's not dead, but it's, it's on C P R.
But we still do some very, very little print marketing just to keep a footprint in that space and looking at it, I would say we probably break even. That's about it. So, it's not somebody that's going to be a lead sales thing, but I still think it reinforces when someone hears my name and then they happen to see it in a magazine.
They probably aren't going to come in because of the magazine, but it was like, oh yeah, that's the guy. So, I think it, it's, it's kind of an indirect thing. I think has been helpful. The reviews we've talked about, I think is indirectly. I didn't think this would be as good as it is, but click pay to click.
Yeah. Pay-per-click. Yeah. Yeah, that has been really, really good. I've been very surprised at how well that has gone. We use reach local. Okay. And Tara Leifer is our account manager and she is a genius. Mm-hmm. And she had to twist my arm to convince me because it was at one of the meetings. Cause I was like, nobody clicks on Advertise.
you know, and I don't want to put my name there. Mm-hmm. Well, we did it and in preparation for this, we looked and our o ROI on that is five to one. Mm-hmm. It's really high. I'm surprised how many people they Google Facelift Atlanta. And if I come up first with click, you know, click advertising, they'll click on that and they will follow through and they'll come in and a lot of they're serious shoppers and they will end up having surgery.
Mm-hmm., here's the caveat for everybody. You want to make sure your competitor isn't paying on their click for your name. Because at one point I found that a couple competitors were bidding on my name. So, when I Googled my name, they came up and said of me, how did you find? So, we have to be careful in that space.
How do you know? You Google your name. When you Google your name and your competitor comes up first, instead of you, either whoever is doing your pay per click advertising is not doing a good job, or they're just outbidding you on your own name.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You don't know. I, that's why t's so murky like this pay per click, it's murky.
You don't know what is going on behind the scenes. Unless you're really looking at these analytics carefully and, and knowing what's, I don't know. I, I think it's fantastic if it's working for you to help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. That is fantastic.
Burke Robinson, MD: Well, I think it's getting a good rep who knows their business very well. And the other thing is then your website has to match up well with that.
Your s e o and I had I was paying for a company out on the west coast to take care of my website and it was so messed up behind the scenes and I had no idea until I brought a marketing person internal and she started researching everything. We had broken links, the SEO didn't make sense, and once she took over and straightened that all out, then the paper click flows with the SEO O.
It has to all mesh. So, it's, it is a web, but if you have people that are dedicated to it and know what they're doing, it can be very, and you know what you're doing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's really smart, which helps you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. You have that whole out of town page that gives you some cache, you know, it, mm-hmm., it, it helps your brand.
Mm-hmm., it just looks good. And the reach helps as well because Google wants you to be so local now. That's why that local's working so well for you. But you also want to be able to reach in case, I mean, do you have many out-of-towners?
Burke Robinson, MD: We've had people from the Bay Area, we had people around the country.
Isn't it interesting? It, it's very fascinating. Sometimes it's because they have family here. Sometimes it's because they used to live here and they trust this environment and sometimes it's just s e o and they end up finding me. And I think you bring up another good point is if you really want to be.
More known regionally or nationally, you have to accommodate your patient. So, we have partnered up with two hotels near our office that are almost a stoneβs throw, and they give a discount for our out-of-town patients when they come in. So, it's been really good for them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. I also noticed you cater to men.
You have a men's section. Now just how, how big of a profit center is that for you? Catering to men and how does that help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Burke Robinson, MD: I think just like everyone else, it's not the majority. It's probably like 15%, maybe on a good month, 20, but probably about 15%. But you know they, they still keep coming in. They're not going to be really facelifted patients.
They're usually eyelids and, you know, Disport or Botox, that kind of a thing. I enjoy seeing them though. And, and they're what I would call the metrosexuals. They're going to look good too. Right. And they're not over the top.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Crazy. Did you build a man cave for them in your practice?
Burke Robinson, MD: No. If you saw it here in my office it's called the βBat Caveβ.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, are you serious?
Burke Robinson, MD: Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh. What, what does it look like?
Burke Robinson, MD: Well, we have a little shrine for Batman over there. It's got my face on a bobble head. The back of my chair here has a Batman cape, and each, each room in the o office is named, but mine's called the bat cave. It doesn't say Dr. Robinson's office.
It just says Bat cave with the wings. That is just having fun with the staff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you, you don't have a cape?
Burke Robinson, MD: I wish I; I wish I could fly. Yeah. . .
Catherine Maley, MBA: So how, what, what about social media to assist in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? Are you playing it a little bit, like, are you jumping in or you're, it doesn't help or hurt or...?
Burke Robinson, MD: My approach again to social media.
I, I think that it can, it can be good or I think it can bite. And so, I think what happened during Covid, I, I, I, I mean I've still chuckled at some of the things I saw people doing on social media to stay in front of people cooking a steak. Playing the guitar and singing. I'm like, you're not Emerald. And you're not Bon Jovi.
Okay, so be who you are. Yeah. And I think there can be fatigue from social media when every day or every other day there's something coming out from your office that has nothing to do with what you do. And I think people can sometimes say delete, you know, disengage, don't want to be a part of it. So, my approach has been more, let's keep it educational celebratory, if we win an award or if it's a holiday, you know, veterans Day, whatever it is, and keep it more in that vein.
And we don't find many people falling off our social media. But for me to just do a video to be funny, to show my latest dance move, I don't think that enhances my image. And really, patients really want to see before and after pictures, and that's really where we stick to it. I think some people get a little too goofy, eh, maybe that works for them, but that's not my image.
That's not my style. And patients really want to know, what can you do now? What can you sing for me?
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's for sure. So, we're wrapping up, we're getting close to an hour here. Just I'd like to talk about your mindset and start with how did you learn the business and marketing side of plastic surgery to help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?
Because you guys did not grow up with this, nothing about it in medical school. How did you find, how did you figure it out?
Burke Robinson, MD: Gosh, you know, that's just on the job training. You know what works and what doesn't. You learn from your mentor. You know, I trained under Devvin Manget, who is a brilliant man, and for the marketing.
When I finished my fellowship in 91, he was cutting edge. It's really learning how to change as the times change and what works and what doesn't. Talking to your peers a lot. The ones who will really tell you the truth, not the ones that'll just make up stuff to make them look bigger and better than what they are.
I think you'll learn a lot from that. And I think also, Always looking at it from a consumer side, what would I be looking for if I was trying to find a good facial plastic surgeon? Again, to me, social media and seeing me, you know, make a filet on the grill doesn't tell me a thing about who I am as a surgeon.
Yeah, I'm a nice guy, but really show me your results. I think that that's, looking at it from the consumer side, the servant attitude. How would I want to be treated if I'm coming in with expendable cash? I'm not here because my h m O sent me here. I'm here because I decided to show up, tell them, proved it, why I should be dropping money in your pocket.
So, it's always looking at it from their perspective and, and then it's on the job training and trying what does work and what doesn't work. And you're, you're going to spend some money. and yet nothing as a result. Like as an example, having an open house we used to do that every year. It became an accounting nightmare for us, and it seemed like a year later I'd have this money sitting in the pot, and yet nobody had come to use it.
But I knew I had to hang onto it because when they showed up to use it, I had to buy the product., right? So, we over time realize doing specials every month, working closely with the vendors. They'll always work with you to promote their product and do a two for one or something. And it doesn't cost you anything.
They're going to, you know, resupply what you're saying, you're doing a two for saves you a lot, a lot of money and it's. It gives you something new and fresh to promote every month. And probably the last thing is bringing up marketing person internal. You know, there's not a lot of you walking around, unfortunately, but if you can find someone who really understands cottage industry marketing, not you know, park Avenue Marketing.
Mm-hmm., and it's a whole different breed as you. And that's why you're so busy with what you do, because there's not a lot of you around. And to find someone who's that good that you can bring inside, if you find them. Do it because otherwise, as I mentioned, you're third partying this out, you got somebody in another state and they really don't have their heart and soul into it because they're not seeing you every day.
So, if you can ever find someone who's truly trained in marketing and knows what they're doing and understand social media, s e o website graphics collateral material. That's the kind of person you need inside that'll take a huge weight off your shoulders and let them work with it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You'll have peace of mind knowing it's getting done.
There are too many you're just too busy to hold vendors accountable. And that's the biggest battle is what are these people doing for me, and I'm, I, am I, why am I paying them and how does that help me in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? Or what am I getting out of this? And then they send you a 30-page report with numbers on it that you have no idea how to read.
And. That's just such a challenge. But speaking about challenges, because I hope you don't mind if we talk about this. We always talk about, like right now when we do this podcast, everyone's showing their best side. You know, I didn't wake up looking like this, you know, and you didn't just become a surgeon by accident.
You know, could you just tap into your childhood experience that helped groom you to who you are today and gave you the insight of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. All of them got all these characteristics that you have now. Can you just talk about that a bit because it hasn't been easy for you.
Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. So, My childhood experience was my, my mom had multiple sclerosis at a, when I was very young.
So early on I was doing a lot more around the house than probably the average child. Loved doing it, mowing the lawn, shoveling the snow in Chicago doing all those things because my dad was more focused on earning a living and taking care of my mom as much as he could. So developed a res an attitude of responsibility early on and being responsible and doing my best because that's what we had to do at home.
And then when my father got injured, all of a sudden, I kind of became the man indirectly for a while there at age 15. And I used to joke around that I was the Uber of 1975 because I was driving them around with my learner's permit to their doctor's appointments. But it was a great inside. You know, how would I say it?
Just a, a way to peer behind the curtain from a patient side and see how my parents were being treated and what a compassionate doctor did, what a responsible doctor would do, and how my parents would feel when they left, good or bad. and then going from there on into college and then being on the provider side, but not as a physician.
But again, on the nursing side or as a clerk, always seeing and staying humble and understanding your roots of really what are you doing, what is your end game, of what you're trying to do? You're trying to help somebody. And I always say to people that even though we're in an elective, a. Environment.
We all went into medicine to help people. Okay. We get paid well for what we do, but we get paid well because we're helping people and we're doing the right thing. And I think during Covid, I, I came to the realization when we came out of Covid and we were so busy. Mm-hmm., I didn't realize how much.
Positive positivity and positive mental health we impart on patients through what we do. No, we're not curing cancer. We would never say that yet. We are filling a void. We're doing something for people that they can't get elsewhere. And if we always maintain that servant attitude and a humble attitude and just always doing the best at that time, and a lot of times that means turning something.
Because it's not going to benefit them or you can't give them what they need. You're going to always be thought of, well, and you'll always be kept busy, because people always think the best of you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, good for you. I, you know, I, I have that Chicago Midwest work ethic, obviously you do too since youβre so good at going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. We were all shoveling snow and mowing lawns and housekeeping and watching kids, and I thought, oh, dear Lord, this is, I'm supposed to be, go out having fun.
What's going on here? Right. So, I feel for you. And that was, that was tough, but you persevere and you're, you, you've really built such a beautiful practice. So, congratulations on your success in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
Burke Robinson, MD: Well, thank you Catherine. I appreciate it. And you've been a part of it too, because I've leaned on you from time to time and we are actually using it right now with some of our surgery coordinators because I always think you can be better.
You can always take it to another level. I mean, that's what you're taught as a surgeon. You always look back and go, what would I have done differently? What could I have done to make that a little bit better? And I think that's the truth. That's the truth for all of your staff. And so, you've always been a, a beacon of light for me and my practice.
And it was so fun to have you introduce me at the last meeting, because I thought that was like a circle of life and I really got a tickle out of that. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just know that if you don't keep learning and growing to help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. You know, you're, you're dying. You really are like, you've got to stay on your game if you want to play it, you know, it's, it changes.
Anyway. How can people get ahold of you if they'd like to?
Burke Robinson, MD: Okay, let's see. My email address is "drr", "drr@robinsonfps.com, which stands for facial plastic surgery robinsonfps.com. And the number here at the office is (770) 667-3090
Catherine Maley, MBA: But your website is Robinson FPSβ¦
Burke Robinson, MD: .Com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: .Com. Yeah. All right.
Everybody thatβs going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo, with Dr. Robinson.
If youβve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Robinson, you can reach out to his website at, www.RobinsonFPS.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Robinson for sharing his experiences on going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the β40-Surgeon Practice to Solo β with Burke Robinson, MD.β
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#burkerobinsonmd #alpharettaplasticsurgeon #solopracticesurgeon
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the easy way to success.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βThe Easy Way to Success...β
I made this quick video for you so youβd know the easy way to success.
By the way, The Cosmetic Practice Vault Intro Offer includesβ¦.
- Lifetime Membership
- (2) Strategy Calls with me personally
- Cosmetic Patient Attraction & Conversion Blueprint
- Patient Coordinator Scorecard
- Marketing Trends Guide
- My popular book
But it ends Saturday!
The Easy Way to Successβ¦ Now, hereβs the easy way to success because the fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you most likely donβt know how they did it because you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there. So you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too.
But it rarely does help with the easy way to success. So try this way instead. Itβs guaranteed to move you forward, so youβll learn the easy way to success.
My intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues comes from the following: 23 years, working exclusively with plastic surgeons to increase their cosmetic revenues, 21 million in revenues generated from my practice building strategies, 441 blog posts 182 podcast, 1000 social media posts, 237 talks given around the world, 5,800 doctors following my work, and 2100 doctors have invested in my consulting and projects and services to get, be, have, and do better than they knew was possible to learn the easy way to success.
I compiled everything Iβve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win and how you too can learn the easy way to success.
You get LIFETIME membership during this introductory period so act now by going to www.CatherineMaley.com/Vault/ and Iβll see you there.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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#cosmeticpracticevault #catherinemaleyvault #aestheticvault #plasticsurgeonvault #plasticsurgeonbusinessprogram
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Enjoy a Steady Stream of Cosmetic Patients".
When I consult with cosmetic practices and ask them their top priority, itβs usually they want more leads.
They are most satisfied when the phone is ringing, they have lots of internet leads for their staff to follow up on and their schedule is booked with consults.
They feel good when they are extremely busy moving from room to room with patients eager to talk about their cosmetic services.
But do they really want more βpatientsβ or do they REALLY mean more procedures?
Hereβs the reality, just because youβre busy doesnβt mean your profitable.
If youβre doing 10 consults per day but only booking 2 of them, something is off.
In regards to doing 10 consults per day but only booking 2 of them and something being off, that's not how you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients. Hereβs what I meanβ¦
Getting more cosmetic procedures is a 3-step approach:
- You need to get more CALLS
- Your receptionist needs to be able to convert these CALLS into APPOINTMENTS
- Your coordinator needs to be able to convert these appointments into paid PROCEDURES
And although this seems to be pretty straight forward on how not to enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients, it's not that easy to get more calls, appointments and procedures. Hereβs what I mean:
1) Get more CALLS:
You probably receive a lot of emails from people claiming that they can get your phone to ring!
β’ Some might try to sell you "pay-per-click (PPC) advertising.
β’ Or, they tell you 53 things that are wrong with your website so youβll hire them to re-design it.
β’ Or, they tell you the "penguin / panda / zebra-safe way" to catapult your website to the top of Google through some Voodoo SEO.
Have you ever tried any of these tactics?
How did it work out?
For many surgeons these "magic bullets" to enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients don't seem to work, yet they are told to "give it more time" and just pour some more dollars into pay-per-click while theyβre waiting for organic leads.
Then thereβs 2) Get more booked APPOINTMENTS
Letβs say you pulled the trigger and sunk a small fortune into a gorgeous new Website and you paid big bucks to get prospective patients to it. They check you out. They like what they see. They call your office to learn more. And?
What kind of experience do they have on the other end to help you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients? Is it consistent with your new βlook and feelβ or is there a major disconnect between the high-end look of your branding and the low-end quality of their phone experience with your office?
Itβs not enough your receptionist have a nice phone voice; although that certainly helps. Your receptionist also needs the skill to take a βlook-e-looβ caller who is going down the search results list and calling you and everyone else to figure out who can help them.
A majority of the callers will be lost here if your receptionist is not a trained ambassador who skillfully welcomes the caller to your practice and invites them in to get to know you better, so you can enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
And lastly, #3) Get more PROCEDURES
Ok, now youβre making progress so you can enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients. The new patient found your new Website. They called and booked an appointment. And, they actually showed up for their appointment so things are looking good.
Now what? Do they have a great first impression of your office? Are they made to feel welcomed and relaxed? During their consultation with you and your staff, did they discover overwhelming evidence of why you are the BEST CHOICE?
Because hereβs the reality that helps you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patientsβ¦the cosmetic patient with a credit card, as well as a lot of choice in providers, is looking for who can best give them what they want. What they want is a great result in the easiest, most comfortable way possible β financially, emotionally, physically and psychologically.
Thatβs why so many different variables go into their decision-making process when choosing the right plastic surgery practice for them. Yes, your reputation, credentials and before/after photos are essential in helping them βseeβ your skill and expertise.
But there are other factors that are more subtle, yet equally important to help you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients: your demeanor, your eye contact, your listening skills and it goes on and on.
And hereβs the biggieβ¦.Is your patient coordinator able to convert them to a paid procedure? If not, then you can't enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
This is where the rubber meets the road. All that you have spent on advertising, marketing, staff, office and web design is wasted when the prospective cosmetic patient chooses your competitor over you.
Because nothing else matters until the patient actually chooses you and PAYS for your services.
This step in converting a prospective would-be patient to a paying customer is no easy feat as you know and have experienced.
It takes skillful planning of each step in the patient experience to prepare that prospective patient for a YES rather than, βIβll need to think about it.β
Here is a helpful suggestion to help you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients, and for you to gauge the experience a prospective patient has when interacting with your practiceβ¦.
You and your staff do a βwalk-throughβ of each step the prospective patient goes through when visiting with you.
Be sure to involve your receptionist, your coordinator and anyone else who interacts with the patient. You are looking for ways to improve your processes that leads to improved conversion rates.
That is how you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients who keep you profitable rather than just busy.
If you could use more patient leads to help you enjoy a steady stream of cosmetic patients, and if your staff could use help converting more callers and consults, please check out my
Cosmetic Practice Vault loaded with proven working knowledge such as
- 10 + Hours of Mind-Expanding Insider Knowledge
- 44 Business Strategies to enjoy a smooth-running practice
- 86 Marketing Strategies to attract a lot more cosmetic patients
- 77 βSwipe & Deployβ creative Graphics you can use
- 44 Proven Scripts to Convert, Follow Up on leads, write Ads that get a result, Interview questions to identify a-players and a whole lot more.
You get LIFETIME membership during this introductory period so act now by going to www.catherinemaley.com/vault and Iβll see you there.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticevault #catherinemaleyvault #aestheticvault #plasticsurgeonvault #plasticsurgeonbusinessprogram
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and teaching your practice to market itself.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Teaching Your Practice to Market Itself."
Some surgeons have a βone and doneβ mentality so they spend a fortune advertising for new patients and their staff spends a crazy amount of time working those βleadsβ to find the diamond in the haystack who is ready to move forward with surgery.
Other surgeons realize its smarter, easier, cheaper and faster to create a great experience and connect with their patients so those patients, in turn, refer them to others who also become surgical patients.
Neither is the right way; however, creating a referral-based system teaches your practice to market itself. That way, you energize your staff, attract more of your ideal patients, deepen your patientsβ engagement with you and solidify your own commitment to build a practice worth talking about.
AND Referred Patients = a Healthy Practice
In teaching your practice to to market itself, the health and success of your practice can be gauged by this simple factor β how many patients refer you to others they know. If you donβt know the answer, pull a report called βrevenues by referral sourceβ.
I have surveyed top cosmetic practices all over the US and the average mature practice gets 45% - 70% of their revenues from referrals. Thatβs good to know and tells you where to spend your time, money and efforts proportionate to external advertising efforts.
And, if your percentage is less than 45%, that indicates you spend a lot more time, money and effort attracting new patients to replace these βone and doneβ patients who are NOT bragging about you, which is the key take away with teaching your practice to to market itself.
But hereβs what we knowβ¦ referred prospective patients are more likely to convert to paid procedures, and more likely be willing pay a premium for the added social proof of a referral.
That leads to lower advertising costs as well as labor costs since these are highly qualified leads that convert, and that leads to increased staff satisfaction and morale.
Here are strategies to grow your own referral-based practice so that you can begin teaching your practice to to market itselfβ¦
Develop a Referral Mindset
This starts at the top. Your staff probably treats your patients about the same way you treat your staff. And, if you have a customer service mentality, then your team will likely adopt one as well.
Think about ways your everyday behavior might be affecting your practiceβs ability to generate referrals while adopting this mindset, βThe surgeon takes care of the staff, the staff takes care of the patients, the patients take care of the practiceβ.
Give your patients βBraggableβ Service
This starts with the right team and everyone in your practice is part of customer service. This idea must be drilled into everything you and your staff do, think and say. This is a core aspect of teaching your practice to to market itself.
Hire for Attitude, Train for Skill
You can train someone to do the tasks required; however, you canβt train them to be naturally friendly, kind, and compassionate. Hire those innate characteristics and people skills.
Never-Ending Improvement
Regularly meet with your staff to remind them of your vision and standards of behavior you expect and how important customer service is to your practiceβs survival. Have them read your reviews, both good and bad, have them review before/after photos of great results and make a big deal out of thank you gifts and cards you get from your happy patients.
Give to Get Mentality
Focus on the question, βHow can we serve our cosmetic patients better than we are?β This question makes your mind think of how you can add value to your patientsβ lives and that changes everything. Find ways to empower your team to create, deliver, mend, and extend the total patient experience.
Exceed Expectations
Identify every potential touch point of a patientβs journey with your practice. Do a patient walk through with one staff person focused on visual, another on smell, another on auditory and another on kinesthetics. Now brainstorm how do we make this experience with us even better to help in teaching your practice to to market itself?
Surprise & Delight
Everyone loves surprises, so how could you incorporate them into your practice? For example, when a patient puts down their deposit for surgery, thank them with a goody bag with pre-surgery products to help with scarring and/or faster recovery.
Be Different to Stand Out.
Look at what your competitors are doing and do the opposite. Examples include: No wait or Starbucks is on us, βWe want you happy guaranteeβ, give patients the morphed computer print outs and anything else you can think of that would differentiate you.
Get Social to Get Referrals
All of your efforts above should be highlighted on social media since this is engaging and authentic content worth sharing and can grow your reach exponentially to help in teaching your practice to to market itself.
Interact with your audience on social media and encourage them to participate by asking them questions, getting their feedback and inviting them to share their thoughts and their selfies!
Use these strategies to set up a systematic approach to generate word-of-mouth referrals so your cosmetic patients voluntarily participate in your marketing and attract new patients to you so that you're now teaching your practice to to market itself.
Thatβs how you teach your practice to market itself.
So if you like this content, I have something new for you.
Itβs called the Cosmetic Practice Vault and itβs chock full of my business and marketing strategies in easy-to-follow training videos, swipe and deploy graphics and proven scripts for your staff. Think of this as your practice playbook moving forward.
During the introductory period, you get lifetime access and strategy calls with me.
You can check out the details at www.cosmeticpracticevault.com
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
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- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
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#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#cosmeticpracticevault #catherinemaleyvault #aestheticvault #plasticsurgeonvault #plasticsurgeonbusinessprogram
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and pose the question of, "should you rent or buy your office space?"
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Should You Rent or Buy Your Office Space? β with Jeremy Warner, MD."
Whatβs smarter? To tread lightly and slowly grow your practice with a short term rented space, or jump in, double-down, and build the practice of your dreams that you own?
As always, thereβs no right answer. Just the right answer for you.
We talk about renting vs. owning your office space on this weekβs Beauty and the Biz; while interviewing Dr. Jeremy Warner, a board-certified plastic surgeon and facial plastic surgeon in private practice in a high-end suburb of Chicago.
P.S. Watch for a big announcement next week. Itβs something that Iβve been working on behind the scenes for months, so stay tuned!
Visit Dr Warner's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#rentorbuyoffice #buyyourownoffice #buyorrentoffice #cosmeticsurgeonoffice #aestheticpracticeoffice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and pose the question of, "do you know your numbers?"
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Do You Know Your Numbers?"
Bad things happen when you donβt know your numbers.
- Maybe youβre making decisions based on bad information or incomplete information that skews your thinking.
- Or, maybe you have a leak in your processes that is costing you a fortune, but you donβt see it because itβs hidden in the numbers.
- Or worse, maybe someone is fiddling with the numbers and skimming your profits without your knowledge.
Thatβs why itβs essential you βknow your numbers,β so you can pinpoint issues before they blow up into big problems.
On this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about important numbers for you to know so you have peace of mind knowing youβre running a healthy business.
Because as they say, βWhatβs measured improvesβ and that says it all.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Do You Know Your Numbers?
So, the big question is, when you first go into solo practice, is βdo you know your numbers?β You have one simple goal, and that is to bring in revenues. But a lot of surgeons are surprised to learn that you can bring in a lot of revenues without actually turning a profit. And how is that even possible? Well, it happens when you don't know your numbers.
Now maybe you're making decisions based on bad information. Maybe there was a problem that you didn't catch in time, or maybe you were so focused on running your practice that. Fell by the wayside. Now it's essential that you grasp the question of, do you know your numbers. So, you can pinpoint problems before they get out of hand, and you can more easily plan for the future.
But you may find financial information intimidating. So maybe you are trusting it to your accountant and bookkeeper, but think about how much peace of mind you would. If you knew your numbers were in good shape and your practice was strong and healthy, because numbers help identify where your practice is leaking money.
Now, when you run regular financial reports, you see how much you're spending on certain expenses and you know to question the expenses when they appear higher than what you planned. For example, you may notice how high your advertising expenses are, and once you've identified that, you can question if that's money well spent or money down the drain.
You would also know which services are making you the most money. Now, you can measure the profit margins of each procedure to know which is more profitable and where the weaknesses are in the ones with the lower margins that. You can make adjustments with the expenses and fees for that procedure to decide if it's worth focusing on, and you would have a clear understanding of how much your practice needs to earn to meet your annual goals, which is pivotal to the question of, do you know your numbers.
Now, when you understand how much revenue you need to bring in to make a profit, it helps. Establish goals. You will understand what revenue level your practice needs to achieve to break even. Now, here's the best part. When you keep your numbers in check, it reduces your expenses, thereby adding more profit and more profit means more money in your pocket.
Business is all about the numbers (do you know your numbers?) and your numbers are telling you a story. So, these four numbers should be measured and reviewed regularly since they are the foundation of a cosmetic practice. Now, here's number one, lead generation. Where do the best? Leads come from how many do you need to generate and what actually generates them?
If you don't know this, it's likely you're going to waste lots of money on things that are generating the wrong kinds of leads. Or potentially worse, you'll abandon a lead generation tactic that actually is working, so you want to leave it alone. Now of course this means that you must be tracking which leads convert to procedures and which patients are most profitable.
By the way, it's much harder to increase the number of leads significantly and much easier to double or triple your lead conversion number. Once you start paying attention to it just saying, here's number two, percentage of leads convert, converted. Do you know what percentage of your leads actually turn into cash paying patients? This is why the question of, do you know your numbers, is so important.
Now the biggest resource killer of all practices is the chasing of leads that are not qualified, not educated about you, and they're not ready to appreciate the unique value you have to offer. So, when you start to measure this and discover how low your conversion rates actually might be from initial phone call to a patient saying yes.
You want to fix it, it's too painful. Otherwise, when you see how much money you are losing, when callers don't book appointments and consults, don't book paid procedures. Now, here's number three, cost per patient acquisition. Every new cosmetic patient comes with a cost. By measuring that cost with some sort of value to your practice, over time, you have a metric that can determine what you can actually afford to spend to acquire. A key aspect to the question of, βdo you know your numbers?β
And then go to work on lowering that cost while creating more accurate budget forecasts. So, look at all of your marketing and advertising expenses and compare it to your new patient revenues for that year. Do those numbers make sense? Through careful lead analysis, you can cut the cost per lead greatly by making better.
Spending decisions. And then lastly, number four, average value of a patient. It's generally much easier to increase your revenues through additional sales to existing patients than to go out and find new ones. Now you can do this one of two ways. You can increase the perceived value of your offerings and raise your fees.
Or add on other complimentary services and or products your existing patients also might want. So, as you can see, there's no rocket science with this list (do you know your numbers?), but are you really measuring these four significant numbers when it comes to growing your practice? Because the bottom line here is that you deserve better and so does your practice.
When you grasp the question of βdo you know your numbers?β, you make better decisions, avoid unnecessary surprises, and have peace of mind knowing you're on track to reach your goals.
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on the do you know your numbers.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βDo You Know Your Numbers?"
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#knowyournumbers #doyouknowyournumbers #knowyournumbersforsurgeons #numberssurgeonsneedtoknow
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator."
A patient coordinator with the right character, mindset and skills is truly a game changer for cosmetic practices..
They can take your practice revenues from βjust enough to pay the billsβ to a windfall every month because they know how to book cosmetic procedures!
This position cannot be taken lightly. You may think anyone can step in to do the job of a coordinator, but you would be sorely mistaken.
Converting consultations is an art and trained skill. It takes the right strategies, knowledge and then lots of practice to get good at confidently taking a βstranger prospectβ to a cash-paying cosmetic patient.
So here are three main attributes that make the biggest difference when you have a great patient coordinator representing you and generating revenues:
The Right Mindset and Attitude
The best coordinators are here to serve β not sell. They have confidence knowing they are providing a valuable service to prospective patients who have a pain point and you are their best solution. They believe in the surgeon(s) they are representing, and they also believe in cosmetic rejuvenation as a gateway to personal self-fulfillment and happiness.
That means they do all they can to help the prospective patient get to a yes and they persevere in the face of resistance. They donβt see resistance as rejection. They see it as an opportunity to offer different perspectives and clear up the confusion on the patientβs side, so the patient actually makes a decision to better themselves.
Excellent People Skills
The right coordinator has the people skills to make a prospective cosmetic patient comfortable and trusting enough to open up to them and make a decision to have their cosmetic procedure with you.
They stay focused on the patientβs wants, fears, objections so they can artfully address the issues in the patientβs mind that are stopping them from moving forward. They do that by bonding with, listening to and asking questions so the patient feels heard. The patient now opens up more because they trust the patient coordinator has their best interests at heart.
Skilled at Converting
Converting prospective patients to paid cosmetic patients is the #1 skill needed to be a top patient coordinator. This is where the rubber meets the road. This is the difference between an okay coordinator and a converting rock star.
This takes confidence, courage and proven strategies that are practiced and engrained.
The patient is looking to you for guidance and isnβt going to hand it to youβ
You have to ask for it in a professional and comfortable way, so the patient says yes.
For example, when the coordinator has presented the options to the prospective patient, they must transition to a strategic question rather than a yes/no question that can trigger resistance.
So instead of asking, βSarah, did you want to do this?β, you ask, βSarah, did you want to go with the full Mommy Makeover or start with just the Tummy Tuck?β
When they pick one of the choices given them, the patient is moving forward and you now have a booked surgery!
Now, the inverse of a fantastic coordinator is also important to be able to spot because it can be subtle so watch for these clues telling you you DONβT have the right coordinator:
- Hereβs the big oneβ¦
- the wrong coordinator takes zero responsibility for their poor results. They blame everyone and everything EXCEPT themselves.
- For example, if youβre hearing complaints such as:
- Iβm not getting enough leads
- These leads are awful
- They are just price-shopping
- They donβt have any money
That tells you you have a coordinator who is negative, pessimistic and thinking lack. So, you want to address that before it gets any worse. Either free her to work elsewhere or have her join The Converting Club and let me turn her around and train her to be a converting rock star.
Simply go to www.ConvertConsultations.com, sign her up and sheβll get 24 training videos, along with quizzes that must be passed before moving on to the next module.
Sheβll also be required to complete metrics each week about her consults and then weβll be bi-weekly coaching calls to go over the details of each consult to determine what went right and what else could have been done or said to get to a yes.
Itβs the accountability that makes the difference and turns around their mindset and results so please check it out.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice β What your patients are saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's episode is called Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator. Now a patient coordinator with the right character mindset and skills is truly a game changer for cosmetic practices because they can take your practice revenues from just enough to pay the bills to a windfall every month because they know how to book cosmetic procedures and keep your schedule filled.
Now, this position cannot be taken lightly, especially if you want to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator. You may. Anyone can step in to do the job of a coordinator, but you would be sorely mistaken. I see that so often that the coordinator leaves and they just put the receptionist in there and that's just really a disservice to you and the receptionist. So, converting consultations is an art, and it's a trained skill just like anything else.
It takes the right strategies, knowledge, and then lots of practice to get good. Confidently taking a stranger prospect to a cash paying cosmetic patient. So here are three main attributes that make the biggest difference when you have a great patient coordinator representing you and generating your revenues.
So, here's the first one, the right mindset and attitude. The right coordinators that convert 25-50% more consultations are here to serve. Not to sell. They have confidence knowing they're providing a valuable service to your prospective patients who do have a pain point, and you are their best solution. Now these coordinators know that they didn't pull anybody in off the street.
These people literally called you. They have a pain. You have a solution, and that just makes logical sense. So, they believe in you, the surgeon that they're representing, and they also believe in cosmetic rejuvenation as a gateway to personal self-fulfillment and happiness. I mean, quite frankly, a cosmetic coordinator who hasn't had any cosmetic.
I also think that hurts them. You should really be drinking the Kool-Aid and well, if nothing else, maybe they're young or they don't have any big issues, so they haven't had surgery, although it'd be nice if they did, and especially from you. But if they haven't, if they could at least have the empathy of what.
It's like to go through this journey of a cosmetic patient just by watching and listening to your current patients, tell them it's a tough journey for a lot of people. It's full of uncertainty and doubt and fear. So, they need to have that empathy. To help that patient get through this. Now that means they've got to do all they can to help the prospective patient get to a yes, and they persevere in the face of resistance and they will always get a lot of resistance.
We always resist when we have to make big decisions or spend money or have downtime, or there might be pain involved, but they don't see the resistance as reject. They just see it as an opportunity to offer different perspectives and then clear up the confusion on the patient side. So, the patient actually makes a decision to better themselves rather than continue to procrastinate like they have for the last five years with the, they've been thinking about it.
So, here's number two. The right coordinator that can convert 25-50% more consultations has excellent people skills, so they have the people skills to make a prospective cosmetic patient comfortable. In my book, I asked them over and over, why did you choose this practice versus another practice? The overwhelming answer was, I felt more comfortable with this practice, this staff, this surgeon.
That was a really big one and I felt a connection with them as well. Because that's how they trust you enough to open up and especially they need to bond with the coordinator because especially women, we need to tell you our story and how we feel about everything. And you need somebody in the practice like your coordinator to be able to get them to open up and then help them make a decision to have their cosmetic procedure.
So, the right coordinator that can convert 25-50% more consultations stays focused on the patient's needs, fears, objections, and wants, so they can artfully address the issues in the patient's mind that are stopping them from moving forward. Now they do that by bonding with listening to, and then asking very strategic questions so the patient feels heard, and not just that, so the coordinator can hear what's going on in the prospective patient's mind, so they're going to be able to address it.
But that can only happen when the patient opens up because now, they trust the patient coordinator has their best interests. And then here's number three. They've got to be skilled at converting. Converting prospective patients to paid cosmetic patients is the number one skill needed to be a top patient coordinator.
Now, this is really where the rubber meets the road. This is the difference between an okay coordinator and a converting rockstar that can convert 25-50% more consultations. Now this takes confide. Courage and proven strategies that are practiced and ingrained. And I have to tell you, most coordinators do not have this. I shouldn't say most. The ones that I'm training definitely don't have it, and most actually let everybody off the hook.
They don't want to push; they don't want to feel me or aggressive. So, what do they do? They, they present the numbers and then they chicken out. They say, okay, then do you have any other question? Alrighty, then will you just think about that and you gimme a call when you're ready, That is not how a professional handles it, because if you think about it, the patient is looking to your coordinator for guidance and they're not gonna just hand it to them.
They've got to, you've got to ask for it in a professional, in a comfortable way. So, the patient says, Now, here's an example. When the coordinator has presented the options to the prospective patient, they have got to transition to a strategic question rather than a yes, no question that can trigger resistance.
So instead of saying something like so Sarah did you have any other questions? Okay. Or, Sarah, did you want to do this instead? A pro. Ask this, Sarah, did you want to go with the full mommy makeover? Or start with just the tummy talk. Now when the patient picks one of the choices, given them the patient's moving forward and you now have a book surgery.
Now the inverse of a fantastic coordinator is also important to be able to spot because it can be subtle. So, you want to watch for these clues telling you do not have the right coo. Now, here's the big one. The wrong coordinator (who canβt convert 25-50% more consultations) takes zero responsibility for their poor results. They blame everyone and everything else.
Everyone else except for themselves. Now, here's an example. If you are hearing complaints from your coordinator, Where she or he is saying such things like, I'm not getting enough leads. These leads are awful. They're just price shopping. They don't have any money. That tells you have a coordinator who is negative, pessimistic, and thinking lack, so you want to address that before it gets any worse.
Free them to work somewhere else, or please have them join the converting club (so your right coordinator that can convert 25-50% more consultations) and let me turn them around and train them into being a converting rockstar. Now, you simply go to convert consultations.com, sign them up, and they'll get 24 training videos along with quizzes that must be passed before moving on to the next module, because I want them to catch the main thought that I have in that training.
And they'll also be required to complete metrics each week about their consultations, and then we'll be doing biweekly coaching calls to go over the details of each consultation to determine what went right. What else could have been done or said to get to a yes. And that's where I'm listening to their mindset.
They're telling me why people didn't book, and I'm telling them back, here's a different perspective to look at it. Here's some strategies that make a lot more sense. Please try these and that can. Typically turn them around quite easily. And it's also the accountability that makes the biggest difference.
And it turns them around from this meek victim like mindset to an abundant mindset, optimistic. And they really do get a lot more results once they think differently, do differently, and then they be different. That's how we turn them into a converting rockstar.
Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on the how to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βConvert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator."
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#convertmoreconsultations #therightcoordinator #convertmore
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and secrets to long-term staff.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Secrets to Long-Term Staff β with Giancarlo Zuliani, MD."
Some surgeons look at staff as an overhead expense that must be βdealt withβ to run their practice.
They wish they could forgo staff altogether and skip the hassle of hiring, training and managing people.
They have had enough of bad hires who: come in late, leave early and do mediocre work in between.
They canβt understand why staff canβt just do the job they are getting paid to do. Whatβs the big deal? It canβt be that hard and so onβ¦.
Other surgeons think much differently about staff.
They know they canβt do it alone and good staff can make them look good and make their life easier.
They like working with staff who have their back, who support them and who move the practice forward.
They see staff as their practice secret weapon who is an asset to their success.
Dr. Giancarlo Zuliani is of this later mindset.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interviewed Dr. Giancarlo Zuliani.
He is a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Bloomfield Hills, MI and focuses on rejuvenating, restoring and reconstructing the face through surgical and non-surgical procedures.
We talked about how he finds good staff (even with todayβs staffing challenges) and keeps them engaged for the long run. Also, how they help him grow the practice using their own unique talents.
His attitude about staff being as asset has paid off, to the point where he is busy and now looking for more space.
His approach is refreshing (and he has run with the bulls!)
Visit Dr Zuliani's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Secrets to Long-Term Staff β with Giancarlo Zuliani, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and secrets to long-term staff. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's special guest is Giancarlo Zuliani, MD on the secrets to long-term staff. He's a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. Now, he focuses on rejuvenating, restoring, and reconstructing the face through surgical as well as nonsurgical procedures. Now, Dr. Zuliani completed his general surgery, residency and chief residency at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan, and he completed a fellowship through the AAFPRS
Now, he's a speaker at other medical conferences as well as a member of several medical societies, not to mention having a lot to say on the secrets to long-term staff.
So, Dr. Zuliani, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Thank you for having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, you have a pretty fancy name. Um, did you get that name in Detroit, Michigan? Are you?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah, so my dad's an actual immigrant from Italy. Right. And so, he came over at the age of eight and my mom's not Italian. And so, you know, they're trying to decide on names and, you know, Steve didn't work really well with Zuliani, so, you know, they, they made it a little bit more Italian singsong.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, do you speak Italian?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: I do, I do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is that, is that helpful to have in Detroit, Michigan while figuring out the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Not really.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ok. All right. So, I know you were in the hospital setting for a long time, and one thing the audience loves to hear is the journey from hospital insurance, et cetera, versus private practice cosmetic and how that relates to the secrets to long-term staff. So, could you just quickly go through how, what was that like for you to jump from one to the other?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Sure. What coming out of fellowship, you know, everybody's. Unsure of what's going to happen and lot, a lot of people don't want to take on that big financial burden right off the bat, so you'll enter in some sort of agreement with the hospital. Myself, I went in with an academic practice, which was a multi-specialty group based out of multiple hospitals, not just one hospital.
Initially I was given a lot of leeway in terms of doing what I wanted to do so I can. Aesthetic work with insurance cases. The majority early in my career obviously were insurance cases. And it came to a point of probably about four to five years in where my cosmetic practice was picking up.
However, the mindset behind the academic group. Was not one of a private practice mindset. It was not business oriented. It wasn't patient oriented per se. And so, at that point, along with other hiccups that happened along the road, which are many and don't need to be explained here, but. Ed me that I needed to do this on my own.
And really, you know, once you get that mindset of doing it on your own, you just have to make that decision to get off the couch and do it. And so that happened about six to seven years in and took about two years of planning probably To get to a place where I wanted to be, you know, starting with where I wanted to open up shop who, how I wanted to construct a practice, you know, how to build it the way I envisioned to build it.
And so, it took a lot of planning. It took a lot of investment with my wife and I in terms of seeking out people around the country as well as around in my backyard to see how their experience went. Opening up their own practice, you know, securing financial backing for it. And working with established relationships in the community as well as with my vendors to support the practice.
And since that time, it's been you know, it's, it's the most work you ever put in, but we've come to a point where it's booming and obviously aided. The covid surge and things like that, but it's, it's been very humbling to know that it's been so success.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So back to the multi-specialty practice, what I find is when everyone else is in insurance, you become like this, not even a prima donna, you become like, I'm not helping him (which is counter-intuitive to learning the the secrets to long-term staff). You know?
So, a lot of times you join thinking, oh well this is my legion. You know, this is where the leads are going to come from. And, and then you're sorely mistaken because a lot of your colleagues who don't appreciate the aesthetic side for whatever reason they turn out not to be your legion source. After all, you have to grow it on your own.
But what, like, psychologically and how it relates to the secrets to long-term staff, how much courage? Cause I think it takes a ton of courage, but the keyword there was decide, right? Once you decide, you can now make. Decisions with a plan until you decide you're still waffling. How long did you waffle before learning the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Well, at, at the, there there's a couple incidents that happened that made me convince or convinced me to, to do this.
They have to, It takes that. Yeah. So, and you know, one was an incident of A patient's information being stolen by a front desk member. You know, you know, things like that actually happen. So that, that was, you know, around the age of, think I was 40 or so, and then made my decision like at 40 I'm up my own doors.
I, I'm, I made a promise myself. And so that happened and you know, you are right in terms. You know, initially they, you know, the, the, the practice and the plastics practice within our division was, was going well. However, it takes a certain amount of money to sustain it, and you have to pay people and, you know, purchase a laser or any sort of other medical equipment as well as the on costs or recurring costs of injectables and neurotoxins.
And the other members didn't understand like why the overhead had to increase. So, But they had no problem taking, you know, 60% of what I brought in plus a Dean's tax of what I brought in. And what I brought in was more than most any other person, and I couldn't, and they judge people by VUS and I, you know, my VUS are, it's dollars.
You know, it's not, it's not a, it's not an indication of work. It's an indication of what people think I'm worth. And so, it became sort of, You know, a headbutting, you know, like should we support them or should we not support them? And you know, a lot of people try to convince me, even the head of the practice said, Oh, you, you know, you can't do this on your own.
You'll never succeed. And so that's all I know when people, and they said that to me and I kept that in the back of me. That's all the motivation you need.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's exactly When there's none left, you fall back on that and learning the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Exactly. Exactly. So, it's but you, you, you have to, you have to get up off the couch. You have to just decide and do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: When you did learn the secrets to long-term staff, and thankfully you have a wife that supported you doing this, because that can also be a very big challenge, right? If the wife is not behind your decision to do this, it just, you know, it, it triples the, the, the stress of it. Exactly. So how, how in the world do you go about finding a location and then do you decide, I'm just going to rent, I'm just going to rent from the hospital.
No, I'm going to get away from the hospital. I'm going to go into a, like a consumer setting. Right. How do you decide? Cause lo is location as important as it is in real estate in the realm of the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: To a degree, but it was more important in terms of my lifestyle, to tell you the truth. So, I wanted to pick a place where, you know, I have young kids and I could be close to my home and close to the school that they attend.
And you know, I, my office is literally a quarter a mile away from my house. So, it, that was a, a big plus the area. It just happens that this area also has a lot of plastic surgeons around. I wasn't scared by, you know, having six, you know, competitors quote unquote around the, around the around the street or around the block from me.
So, it was more convenience to tell you the truth. But now we're in a, in a spot where I'm growing out of this facility and I'm looking to purchase my own building, which is really a struggle because things are just overpriced. These.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But I would think there's a lot more commercial space now. Didn't that, when the demand of that decreased, did that help you on your journey in figuring out the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah, to a degree, except for things that are zoned medicals, things that are zoned medical are still at a premium. People who are, you know, you know, corporations, you know, which may not be using them, we're big into auto around here, which may be pulling out, The only thing that's really hot still is medical because people need to go see their doctor.
So, it is it's been a challenge and so, you know, we're tackling that one. So, I've got my goal on that one for two years. And we're, we're cranking ahead.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But in the meantime, you have to work with these hospitals. Are you having trouble booking? I know you did during covid. Has that settled down is all in relation to the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Thankfully my, my relationship with my, you know, outpatient surgical center and hospitals has been very, very good and I've been loyal to them since the beginning.
And so, I've had built in block time and they've really, Around helping me get all my cases in. You know, there was, you know, staff shortages everywhere and nursing shortages everywhere, and they had to pull back on rooms and amounts of cases you can board. But thankfully they, you know, worked with me where I didn't really have to pull back a lot.
So that's been, thankfully I've heard horror stories otherwise, but thankfully that's been the case for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I literally have had calls from surgeons who had to cancel surgery the next day because the, they didn't have staff (or the secrets to long-term staff). They just, Yeah. It was like, what happened to our industry? When did all of this go sideways?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: I mean, that along with the shortages of lidocaine and saline in the, in the country, it's sort of like, what else can go on? The supply chain issues are just, Plentiful and so complex, it's hard to, it's hard to run your own surgery center. It's hard to go to the hospital. It's just, there's just not enough supplies nor there enough, you know, manpower to, to meet the demand.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You touched on the car, the auto industry. I know Detroit, I'm actually originally from Chicago. Ok. I still have the accent. So, I'm hearing yours as well, but so how big of a deal is it? How big a deal are the secrets to long-term staff in the auto industry? Does that ruin you if they walk away? If they leave or, or what, What's your situation about that?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Not necessarily. They're still the biggest provider of jobs I believe in, in the city with all the other ancillaries like the, the different tier. You know, suppliers and, and supply chains like that. But I think Detroit's be, become a little bit more of, a little bit of a renaissance.
Recently, the, the restaurant scene has been booming, the real estate market, and well as two huge real estate corporations, mortgage companies, Quicken and United Wholesale Mortgage have been really fueling. Sort of a, a comeback in this area, so it's not just strictly related to auto anymore. And now that the big three are getting involved in more electric cars and more technology I think they're diversified enough where they, they're not going to hit another 2008 where they need a an out.
Let's hope. Back then it was bad back then it was, it was pretty.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You also have an incredible mall called the Summerset Mall.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: That is, that is a half mile away from my office.
Catherine Maley, MBA: They literally, like Google will call it a, an attraction, you know? Right. towards attraction. So, is that where you all hang out or not really? How does that relate to the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: I mean, so Michigan is more of a, you know, it's a four-season state. You know, spending time outside and doing boating and, you know, golfing and tennis and or going up skiing to up north northern Michigan. But it's really more of an all-seasons type stage, you know? So, I don't, I don't really hang out at the mall, but hanging out outside for sure.
Yeah. I mean, it's, but it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful mall. I, Oh, I mean, it's, it's, you know, it rivals, you know, the, the country, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's under a, that's just spectacular. I must, Your mom was very impressed. So, are you completely cosmetic in learning the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah, so when I opened up my practice, I still would see some MOS reconstruction, things like that, but one year in, we stopped.
It was just too busy cosmetic wise, and so we gave up all insurance carriers at that point, and my cases are purely cosmetic now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, so now this is what happens when you are a facial plastic surgeon. Typically, you can live off of, you know, from the neck up. There's plenty of business there normally, but a lot of you also want to keep that patient for a lifetime.
And you, you bring on the nonsurgical as well, and I believe you have done that as well. So how important has it been? To do surgical as well as nonsurgical, and do they complement each other and build a practice of people who return and refer. How does that relate to the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Right. It's, I think it's essential. So, we have, you know multiple providers in the office doing, you know, energy-based treatments and injectables.
Full body injectables, full, full body treat. And so, you know, I can't scale me, but I can scale that, type, that business, and we brought on more aestheticians and more injectors to, to help with that. So, it's a, it's essential. And the, and the play between the two is, is seamless. So, you know, I'll say hello to their patients, even if I've not met them before when they're in the med spa.
And I'll, I'll peek my head in and, you know, it'll be, you know, I think it's time for surgery, so they'll schedule a consult with me, or I think you need to go see the aestheticians for X, Y, and Z, or go see the nurse injector. Perhaps you're not of the best. Facelift can, but if you want something to tide you over, maybe have a consult for sculpture or threads or, or things like that.
And, you know, it's, I think it's important to have a varied menu of services to offer people, which, which have each of their own separate downtime in each of their own separate price point. And it's our, it's not our business to tell people where to spend their money, but it is our business to tell them and educate them what each procedure, non-surgical or surgical, Can do and what their expectations should be.
And so, we want to build a, a treatment sort of pathway for them and allow them to sort of choose where they go. And it's sort of like a, a branch on a tree. If I do this, then I'll do this and I'll do, then I'll do, I'm lucky. I mean, I still have patients who found me from my original practice who still come and see me all the time.
So, building those lifelong relationships and then, you know, their friends and their friends, it's been more of a word of. Type of thing for me than anything.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know just coming from that, the patient perspective, most patients, I will say, generally speaking, don't jump into a facelift, regardless if that helps one learn the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Correct.
Catherine Maley, MBA: They tick little bit steps, little steps to get to that facelift, but it starts easy. And typically, that's where your aesthetic comes in. Then your nurse injector, then the laser tech and all arrows point to surgery. It's just let them have surgery when they're emotionally ready for it. And in the mean, Develop that relationship that helps them learn the secrets to long-term staff.
I just think that's really smart business in today's world. Starting over every single surgery would be exhausting. Oh, for, you know, some say, You know what, I'm just a surgical practice, and I think, Okay. Then you'll find a bunch of surgery surgical patients, you know?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: You know, everybody who comes in, there's something to offer them later.
Now, once somebody has surgery, doesn't necessarily they, they're done, right? It's, you know, you want to keep them in your practice and keep their results up. And that requires further techniques and further procedures. You know, you know, you want to keep things tight and you want to keep looking good and you don't want to just go run out and bake on your boat and, you know, burn.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. That's not the way, but that's the American way, but not exactly in reference to the secrets to long-term staff. We destroy, then we destroy ourselves for decades and we say, Could you fix this thing?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Youβve heard it all. Yeah. And, and the flex.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, hurry up. So, I know you have lot of lasers. Do you have any words of wisdom or pearls about how to go about buying a laser and how that can help one discover the secrets to long-term staff?
I'm just hearing so many stories about them. What, what do you think?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Well, it's. You know, I, I'm, I'm won't be the, I won't be the first to jump into anything that's really new and they're saying that it's hot and it comes with, you know, a lot of flashing lights are there. I mean, the flashing lights are there to draw you like a moth to a flame.
You know, it's, so you have to do your own research and talk to your colleagues around the country to see what is really the most bang for the buck. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to go out and spend. $350,000 on a huge platform. But perhaps you start with something smaller. And the other thing is everything is negotiable.
Don't feel like that is the price that they give you, is the price that it's going to be. The, these companies, for the most part, want to keep you as a lifelong. Purchaser as well. So, they realize that you know, we'll make calls to certain people suggesting certain things here and there. But you really got to b stand behind the technology and the company as well.
You know, it's, it's, it's a huge investment to begin with, but it reaps its benefits for sure. Mostly because the patients are recurring, the, the price ticket on them is not super expensive, and depending on the type of laser, the downtime isn't the worst. But working with a good company, which is, which puts their sort of.
Heart behind your practice and really wants to support your practice is valuable. I've, I've seen other companies where, you know, the last you see of the, you know, the salesman is the second they deliver it, and then they're gone. But you, you know, I've worked with some companies where that's not the case.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I think the better companies they, well, they should be helping you market the darn thing for sure. Because a solo practitioner does not have the time, money, or wherewithal to do patient education. That's not your job. Correct. Isn't their job to drum up the consumer demand? And it's your job to be the supplier of that demand while learning the secrets to long-term staff.
So, I want a company that backs you up like that. Like we kind of practice building tools and strategies and budget. Do they give you, to make sure this thing hits the ground running? Because a lot of times I have to say the practice when it doesn't go well, they do blame it on the laser company a lot of times.
It's not magic. I mean, somebody's got to market the thing. Either you do or they do, but somebody's got to have a plan in place to make that work. Have you, have you noticed that when you bring a new laser on board, do they? How does that help you learn the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Oh, yeah. Well, so we have, luckily, I have my own in-house social media people, so I think that's exceptionally important for.
Transitioning because it's a way that you can market on sort of a, a low budget without having to put up major ads on radio, print, or television. And you just have to, you have to grow it organically. It's a, it's a slow thing, but once you get the appropriate patient base and then using sort of, you know, click bait for Facebook or things like that, or on Google, Google ads, you can attract new people in for your, for your new.
Your new platform that you're going to be bringing on, and then you have to do a lot of education about it too. You have to get on the, you got to get on the camera, you got to talk about it. So how excited you are. Treat the staff, have the staff tell them, you know, what it feels like, what expected results are.
But it's, it's a lot about just marketing and internal marketing obviously is the best, right? So, you. Keep talking to your existing client base who already trusts you for, you know, trusting their face in you and you want to keep telling them what's coming up, what's, what's new, what's coming up, And, and, and it, and it'll be successful, but you can't just buy and expect it to sell itself.
It's not the way, that's not the way it works. You have to invest time and you need the company to help you too. Whether it's they're doing direct to consumer ads or they're giving you a certain allowance to. Pay for putting these ads out. It needs to be sold.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Here's my pearl on that. If they're paying for it, then sure they can use their name.
Otherwise, if you're paying for it, I would get away from the name of the treatment or the laser and I would only talk about pain solution. You have sun damage. We wipe it out. You know, you, you give me, you, there was this ad before. You give me five days; I'll give you five. Right. So brilliant. Nobody needs to know how, right now they're in advertising.
They just need to know the what. You know, they have a problem. You're, you have a solution. The details come in later. So that's what I would do, especially while discovering the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: You know, just, Right. That's the, that's good. Websites are built like that. You know what, what's your problem? And this is the treatment, you know, like. Brown spots Mala, you know, then, then you can go into what you can do for it.
Rather than say I have XYZ laser or XYZ radiofrequency micro kneeler, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. They can pay for that. The vendor can pay for that problem. So, let's just talk about staff is always the biggest challenge. I'm assuming you look like you have a lovely staff. You took them water skiing. I mean, everyone should have been happy with that
So, what pearls do you have, in reference to the secrets to long-term staff? Just bring in the right staff on board, surrounding yourself with a good team.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Right? Obviously, that, that is, that is the, the hardest thing for sure to get people to buy in. And from early on, we have, we had a really good core group that is still with me today, so a lot of it is, Giving them the reins to be creative and to have a certain amount of graduated responsibility, having their see a path of growth.
Meeting with them regularly, meeting with the team regularly, going over individuals well as corporate goals and then having fun together as well. It's, I think it's important to, to go out as a team and try and connect with people on a, a personal level. You know, and getting to know about their families and about their background and, you know, their inspirations, rather than just having it be a pure check in, check out where, you know, everybody's sort of living in their own silo and nobody really cares about the sort of common goal.
And that's what we're all, you know, we want a team, right? It's not. Necessarily a family, but it's definitely a team that you want to build and have some people rely on each other and it takes work. It's not easy. It's actually the finding people and retaining people is hard. And it, but it's a lot cheaper than recruiting, I'll tell you that.
So, you know, it's, it's important and, you know, with inflation, you know, people need to be paid too. And so, if you. If you have an employee that is just so stellar, make them feel that way because it, you know, without them, if you're going to be hurting, pay them accordingly and treat them according.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But how did you get it right from the beginning as you learned the secrets to long-term staff?
Like you hired some really killer people.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Well, I had a, I had a consultant and I, my wife's background is in HR, so she knows hello. So, she an HR, she's an HR director at one of the big three, and so she knew sort of the ins and outs of how to do this. She wrote my employee handbook, I mean, without her. You know, it would've been too much work for myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I hope she got a, a stipend out of that while she helped you to learn the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah., she got a couple nice bags., she but you know, with that, it, it was. Continuous work, but we found the right people and it's work now that have there been hiccups with other employees for sure, and Covid did not help that. So, you know, it's a constant process.
Trying to find people, but I think right now we've, we've, we're, we're hit a groove where we we're really getting along as a, as a team, and attitudes are great. So, but you'll go through ups and downs and ins and outs and you just have to weather the storm and be able to be positive about it and take your time to, to hire the right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know I'm prejudice, but I'm from the Midwest and I think the best working minds come from the Midwest, the work ethic, the blue collar, whatever you want to call that. Mm-hmm. I moved from; I couldn't get out of Chicago fast enough, quite frankly. I, I couldn't do the weather, I just couldn't. So, I wanted to go to San Francisco and also learn the secrets to long-term staff.
And that, Wow. Talk about culture shock. another story. But out here, nobody did anything like, compared to Chicago. I mean, I was so disciplined and I didn't even know it. I worked so hard and I didn't even know it, but I thought, Oh my God, I'm going to be a big hit out here because I'm actually willing to get to, to the office by eight when nobody else was showing up till nine 30.
And I, I was just so surprised. Frankly, I think, well, the wife being an HR killer, killer strategy, And the next one is youre definitely in the middle of the Midwest where they have, they think differently or they used to anyway. How do you think that relates to the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: So, well, I mean, I, there's some, there's some grit, you know, there's some grit involved in Detroit's, you know, sort of a roll up your sleeves and let's get it done.
You know, even the, the, the basketball team is', Going to work was their motto. You know, the, it's, it's a blue-collar town, but people definitely put the work in and if you, the work in you'll reaps to get started and get the inertia going when it. You know, you don't have to push as hard. You can just sort of nudge the rock along.
You got, you constantly have to do it, but you're not going to be bearing, you know, the huge, you know, 3000-pound weight trying to roll the stone up the, up the mountain. Eventually it becomes a little bit easier, but you, but you gain people with you to help push it, right? So, you're getting a team to help push it everything along and, and, and help progress the.
Corporate goals and the practice goals, but you already said it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You meet with them regularly, everyone chipping in. You work together as a team (which is one of the goals of the secrets to long-term staff). You're not best friends. I don't, I'm that can go sideways sometimes. Right. But but definitely just knowing that you care about your staff makes them work harder for you.
That I know. For a fact. For sure. And then for sure. And then, but sometimes they'll some of, some of the surgeons, like they'll have a Christmas party at their house and their house. Unbelievable. And sometimes I think that can backfire on you if you havenβt learned the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah. I mean, we've always done it elsewhere. Parties and like that, you know, we were, I mean, my and I just to London, we got everybody a.
You know, Union Jack, like little card carrier thing, you know, it's just, it's not nothing crazy expensive, but it's the thought. And, you know, you would've thought, you know, we'd have bought people Berger eggs, you know, everybody was like, so excited, But it's just, it's the thought and, you know, recognizing that you're on, you know, they're on your mind and that makes people feel.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic to help master the secrets to long-term staff. Most surgeons would not even think to bring their staff back something, It just doesn't occur to them. And that's because they treat their staff like overhead and not an asset. And I think you watch them on my videos cause you and I are thinking the same way about you have to hang on them and when you have a great staff, there's nothing better.
Been a well-oiled machine, right? There's nothing better when everyone's doing their thing and you're all working together for the good of the practice, not for yourselves, nothing. It's just, you know, that's how to do it if you can. And then of course, as soon as it all works out, then somebody has sudden I have to move to Alaska.
Cause if their husband was transferred and it all falls apart, which doesnβt help with the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: But that's happened. I mean, we've had people like that. They've had to be transferred and so, You go through periods of like, Am I ever going to get out of this rut? Am I going to find somebody? And then it happens and you know, you know, the sun shines another day. It'll be okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It all works out in the realm of the secrets to long-term staff. I my motto, especially when you get older, you're like, You know what? This can't. Drama all the time, you know? Right. Like, all right, it, But it does seem to happen in in clunk clusters. It does. You know, like it all falls apart at the same time. It's like really? Like really?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: What? And my staff will say no. Mercury's in retrograde watch out. So, they'll you have three or four problems happening, like is going on. Like, know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's funny. So, let's talk about marketing and how it relates to the secrets to long-term staff, because you're doing something that I have been talking about for two decades now. Make a signature treatment with your initial on it, so Sure.
You have the Z lightning lift. That's right. Can you talk about that?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Oh yeah. It's a, it's a minimal access Facelift procedure, sort of hybrid using radiofrequency as well as sort of deeper plain tissue techniques that is done under local anesthesia only. We call it lightning lift because it's done quicker.
The recovery is quicker. We're using radiofrequency plasma, which is what lightning is. And so, We use the specific modality. I didn't call it by its name. I just created my own little thing. It's an own little niche surgery. Is it for everybody? No, but there are certain people who are, you know, in between.
Fillers and a formal facelift that just want something that's minimal but gives them the refresher that they want. And we came up with that like year one and it's been a boom. People will search it up and say, Am I a candidate for this? I'm a candidate. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't there.
They're a little, a little bit older, and a lot of people can't handle just plain locally anesthesia, but in the right person. It, it works really well, and they appreciate not, not having to go to the surgical center, not having to go under, not having to pay those additional costs and having, you know, great results without all that downtime.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's just genius. A lot of women cannot admit they need a facelift, but they need a little something, something. Right. That's why they're attracted to that, if I'm not mistaken. Did the lifestyle lift come from Michigan? How does that tie in with the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: It did. It did. It came right through three miles down the road in Troy, Michigan.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Because I'll tell you, I don't care what you say about them. They were talking right at the consumer. Right. No stars. It's a band aid, not a band. You know, like round your head? No. Down. Minimal downtime, minimal scarring, minimal everything local. I mean, it, they were, that was music to women's ears. You know, I can, an awful lot of result for a lot less, less money, less time, less hassle, less pain, less scarring.
And so, I'm assuming there's some of that came from that. That's also great to help with the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah. Yes. A lot of it was trying to find that sort of, that niche and that where people, you know, were in between. And so that's what we, we aimed to, to capture there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So how do you use that in your, because frankly you could use it in all sorts of different ways.
There are women. Have you noticed the women are getting younger and younger who watch faceless? How has that affected your understanding of the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Oh, I mean, it's, it's extraordinary. I mean, we're getting into late thirties, mid-thirties. A lot of people are like, I don't want. To be burned out on filler, I'm just going to, or, you know, threads or whatever it may be.
I'm just going to invest in it now. And so, we did one on a 36-year-old a few weeks ago. And that's where the lightning lift comes out. Like, Okay, let's offer you this. That doesn't mean you're not going to have a secondary lift 15 years from now, but this will tide you over. Right. So yeah. But younger, young, I just, you know, I was just, Saying hi to a patient who was receiving an energy-based treatment, and she was like, Is it right for my facelift yet?
She's, you know, she's, and I'm like, she's like, I just want to get it over with. I'm like, I understand. It's, it's, it's happening younger and younger and younger, and I think a lot of it's due to, you know, people are seeing, they're not scared of surgery anymore. They're seeing it more on social media and seeing sort of the results that surgical intervention can provide, and they're drawn.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, especially when they're watching the celebrities doing it at a younger age as well. Right. I just think though, psychologically, if they're already struggling now at 33, wait until they're in their forties and fifties and sixties, that's me. It's going to be way, I mean, I donβt know. They're shoot themselves; You know that. I wonder how that goes with the secrets to long-term staff?
It's not like you're going to have a facelift at 35 and you're good to go, you know? Right. There's a lot more that happens after that called, you know?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Exactly. Exactly. No.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So is there, I know you, you have a lot of competitors around there. Is there any other way or strategies you're using to differentiate yourself from the others, and master the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: The, the sort of the patented surgical procedure was a great one that, that did it. The I'm in an area where it's a very highly sort of ethnic area where there's a lot of rhinoplasties going on and not too many people doing rhinoplasty in my area. Good point. So, you know that I never even needed to.
Advertise for, and we're doing, you know, 220 rhinoplasties a year, and I'm not, I'm not doing. Any sort of advertising for it. Where I am spending a little bit of advertising dollars is my aging face population, because it seems that everybody fights over that. You know, the full body plastic surgeons, the facial plastic surgeon, even dermatologists are fighting over, you know, lifts and, and things of that nature.
So, we, we do spend a little bit of money there, but nothing to even write home about. And it's worked, It's been consistent advertising towards that patient, consistent, putting information out there, consistently, having Facebook lives or Instagram lives doing q and as you know, from my own office, whether it's, you know, whether people are here or not, and.
Putting out, you know, the "before and afterβs" and it's, it's working or, or it's up to, you know, 40% over last year just being consistent with it. And it's great. And that, along with the, the zoom boom, people not wanting to look at their necks, it's sort of just coincided that, you know, you can, and that that practice has.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I was watching one of your Facebook Lives and I was thinking, okay, for social media, you have somebody on board, which I think you have to have in today's world. Not just like the roving reporter in the office, but you also need somebody who knows how to video edit because they can make you look great, which also helps with understanding the secrets to long-term staff.
You know, especially if you're not into it and you're not like, You know, you've never wanted to be an actor. They can, they can really add some music, some highlights. You can get by almost without talking because they can put in the quotes, you know, or just things. So, I think that's going to be imperative for everybody in today's world.
Google's take, Google's not letting anyone get to your website anymore. I'm just watching how brutal that's gotten. They, I, I guess they just want to own the homepage for themselves and you don't even have to leave the homepage cause all the answers are right there and. What the heck are you guys going to do to find new patients if they keep like, closing all those doors? That must affect mastering the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah, it's all, it's all those algorithms. And I have, you know, you know, I keep asking my, my college roommates back in the day, they, you know, most of them went to work, go work for Meta or Facebook or Google. They don't really have an answer for it. I don't, I, I, they're just trying to keep things proprietary, I guess.
I don't, I have no clue, but. Going back to having somebody in your office, it's, it's very important that you invest in them and allow them to take classes on how to market on the internet. And so, we're constantly doing that with our, my, my patient care coordinators doubles as my social media manager and then, you know, farms the work out to every, you know, other people in the office.
She's constantly taking classes and constantly knowing how to, you know, beat the algorithms and things like that. So, it's important to invest in, definitely important to some, Invest in somebody like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, in today's world I, I mean, I have an MBA, I have a BS and an MBA, and quite frankly, I've learned more on buying courses at night that I watch online than I ever did in school.
That took years and years to learn, right? Marketing nowadays, You're not learning a full-on foundation of things. You're learning one thing. How do you do a Facebook ad boom. How do you do a LinkedIn ad, boom? Like, that's so easy. Just go to YouTube. I mean, don't tell everything you wanted know. You have to want to put the effort in, you know, is that's the, the secret to it.
You know, you have to do that. If you've got staff who like to do that, they want to grow. It's more fun for them. And I've noticed, have you noticed social media is, Look, it's coming. Like it's becoming a team player event. Like it, it builds. Have you? How does that help with understanding the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Well, everybody wants to get involved because it's, it's fun and it's, you know, you can do, you know, I'm not, I'm never going to be the dancing guy or anything like that, but I'll sure if the you know, if the other staff want to do that and have fun with it, I've got no problem.
You know, let your, let your personality show through. People want to know that you're a real person, not a robot, you know, So you have to incorporate, you know, not just your treatments, but you know, things that are going on in the office. You. We, you know, post about our outings and, you know, whatever it may be.
You know, you have to let people know that there's real humans here who are, who are doing the work. But it is, it's, it's, it's fun. You know, Most people, most everybody wants, I don't have a single. Not one that doesn't, one, one that doesn't like being one in front of the, you know, camera. You know, I'm, I'm not crazy about it, but I do it because I know it served a purpose.
But most people do want to, you know, help out in that regard.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say social media is like one of those marketing channels that you're focused on, or is something else working better than that? How does that tie-in with the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Well, you know, social media for one. But what really works for me is that I've, I've done surgeries on people who are in, in this area who are in a very tight knit community.
There's, there's a few. And it's both mostly word of mouth between them. They have like these; these communities have Facebook groups on their own asking about who's the best rhinoplasty surgeon. Who do you see for this? I had no clue that this was happening until mom showed me. And I was like, Oh my God, I, I have no clue.
It's like an underground network of, of questions and answers for plastic surgery, but that hap if this is happening here, it's happening everywhere. And so, you break into one of those communities and become the go-to guy. I mean, it sort of just spreads like wildfire.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's like your own little real self, you know? Certainly helps with understanding the secrets to long-term staff!
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Exactly, Exactly. And I don't have to pay!
Catherine Maley, MBA: If you can get one, you can get that ho darn group, you know? Right. They all are connected; They hang around together. If you could give them that one procedure that they want like, like get known for that one. Like the rhino boy, you.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, good for you.
Is there is there anything that you used to do for marketing that now just does not work and hinders mastering the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Well, I never put anything into print per se. And you know, we, we, we used to do more stuff on like sponsored links or sponsored stuff on RealSelf, and I've quit all that. I quit all that maybe four years ago.
I wasn't seeing any real from that platform. Any real leads coming through that were really good. So, the, the advertisement on RealSelf, I've. Shied away from, I still have a, I keep a real self-link and things like that. But we've been doing our own, sort of reaching out to our patients through our social media and encouraging reviews, encouraging testimonials, encouraging video testimonials, encouraging patients to, you know, post about their journey with me and things like, And they'll do it on TikTok and then they'll share it with us.
So, they're going Reddit. I don't even know there is a plastic Reddit plastic surgery. That was amazed. You know, you know your patients and your perspective patients are, are reaching out on every platform known to man, looking for some looking for answers, looking for a real-life sort of experiences with you.
And so, you know, you want to encourage your patients to. Post on those so you can organically grow and it costs you no money other than asking them to do so. And a lot of people are scared to, to say that. But I encourage you say, please tell us about your experience, because I know we're striving to provide, you know, a world class experience here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. For the Facebook Lives. Has that been helpful to you? Profitable? Has it helped in the realm of the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yes, very much so. You know, so we'll, we'll, we'll go back and we'll analyze to see, you know, how many consults, you know, if 200 people books, you know, sign up, how many are actually showing up and watching it, How many are booking a consult from there.
But it's been a good, it's been a. You know, sort of pass through and thoroughfare of reaching more people. You know, some people are just sort of scared to come in the office. Some people are very hesitant to even make a consult. You know, you're just trying to maybe tip somebody in the right direction and let your personality come through and let them see who you are as a person and what, what maybe your surgical beliefs are and that, you know, that's, is its weight and gold.
I mean, that will get people in the.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know how I can tell when I look at your Instagram and you know, you can see the likes, they like dramatically increase. The more interactive you are being with that audience and those aren't easy to do those Facebook lives. If you're not used to sitting in front of a camera.
That can be very unnerving. You guys are doing a great job of that. But often I say to the surgeons, practice at home, get in front of your cell phone and just get used to talking to a screen. Right. You know, just so to lighten up, you know. The whole point is they need to see you as a caring, funny, nice, kind, compassionate person, human being. Also traits needed to master the secrets to long-term staff.
And however, you can get that to come across because you can't when you're so stiff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah, right, right. I mean, long gone are the days of the sort of the patriarch doctor who sits there and is like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. And that's what we're doing. And that's gone. I mean, it's, it's. The way of the dodo bird, you have, you have to be engaged and you have to be, you have to come out of your comfort zone.
You have, you have to do things that you have to get in front of the camera or else it's everybody else is going to be doing. You're going to be left on the side of the road if you don't.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's, you know what, That's frankly your words of wisdom. If you don't adapt to this new way of nurturing, educating, attracting patients, you are going to be left on the wayside because they're, they're not going to tolerate less than that, right?
Boy, the more uncomfortable you are, the happier. The patient is so just you off. So, what would be, do any like last of wisdom for anybody who let's say is trying to make that jump that you made years ago to get into cosmetic? Anything you could tell them and how that can impact them learning the secrets to long-term staff?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: You know, it, it takes, it takes belief in yourself, but you know the best person to bet on.
The best thing to bet on is yourself because you can control that. You can put the work in so bet on yourself. And if you do and you put the work in and you surround yourself with great people around you, you will succeed. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And my last fun question is, tell us something we donβt know about you, and unrelated to the secrets to long-term staff.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: When about let's see, how long ago was?
This was 20 years ago, so I ran with the bulls in Pamplona.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, congratulations.. That's aβ¦
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah, I was scared.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Was of the, But did, were you a runner?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, like are you good at running?
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: Oh Well not so much anymore. My knees aren't that great, but I've have run a couple half marathons and triathlons.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Because you know, few beers and you're going to go along with it.
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: I, I did have a few. And that's why I was at the front of the line.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Forget that. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you survived that. That is very interesting. I've never heard that one before. All right. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Zuliani for coming to Beauty and the Biz and discussing the secrets to long-term staff. I really appreciate it.
I hope to see you soon at one of our conferences coming up and everybody if you want to talk to Dr. Zuliani for whatever reason, his website is
Giancarlo Zuliani, MD: www.ZulianiMD.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on the secrets to long-term staff with Dr. Zuliani.
If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Zuliani, you can reach out to his website at, www.ZulianiMD.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Zuliani for sharing his experiences on the secrets to long-term staff.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βSecrets to Long-Term Staff β with Giancarlo Zuliani, MD."
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#staffingsecrets #longtermstaff #secretstolongtermstaff #drzuliani #giancarlozulianimd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and Park Avenue prestige.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Park Avenue Prestige β with Thomas P. Sterry, MD."
We all heard its location, location, location, but is that enough to grow a successful practice?
Thatβs what Dr. Thomas Sterry, a board-certified plastic surgeon with 20+ years of experience in private practice in Manhattan, NY asked himself when he had to decide if he would rather have a large, 2-floor office near Mt. Sinai or Β½ that space on Park Avenue in Manhattan?
My guess was there is so much prestige with being on Park Avenue that can attract patients from all over the world, since the address alone gives him status.
Thatβs what Dr. Sterry thought that as well, so he set up shop on Park Avenue years ago, at his wifeβs request to live and work in the City.
While he enjoyed some out-of-town patients, he found most of his patients were locals coming in from Brooklyn, Queens, CT, New Jersey, Long Island and Staten Island.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Sterry where we talked about the moment he quit insurance and went to cosmetic medicine, his advice for residents soon graduating, as well as his love for vintage cars.
There is no right answer to where you should set up shop, but there is the right answer for YOU so choose carefully.
Visit Dr Sterry's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Park Avenue Prestige β with Thomas P. Sterry, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Now, today's guest is Dr. Thomas Sterry and he's a board-certified plastic surgeon with 20 plus years in private practice in Manhattan, New York.
Now, Dr. Sterry also teaches residents as a clinical assistant professor of plastic surgery at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City and is involved in several plastic surgeon societies of which he is currently VP of the New York County Medical Society.
Now he's won many patient choice as well as Super Doctor awards throughout the years, and he's a RealSelf top contributor and Hall of Famer. So, I'll ask him more about that and on Park Avenue prestige. Dr. Sterry, thanks so much for joining me at Beauty and the Biz.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Thanks for having me, Catherine. It's a pleasure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, I, I know your background a little bit more before you went to Park Avenue prestige, but you didn't come from a family, a surgeon, so can you just talk on that a little?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Sure. My Well, I didn't expect that to be your first question. Yeah. My, my folks were civil servants. My dad's a fireman. My mom worked in the court system in New York. I was sort of expected to go to college, but not necessarily become, A doctor, the goal was college and that was the goal. So, once I graduated college, it was like, well, not a lot.
I'm not really sure what I want to do. And I always knew I wanted to be a physician, but I didn't think it was possible. I came from a, a very blue-collar neighborhood and You know, it didn't seem realistic because there were these proverbial stories about straight A students who couldn't get into medical school and whatnot.
And, you know, as time went by, I found out that that was truly, really not the truth. That's, that's not how it really goes. You work hard, you can make some progress in your life. We do live in a meritocracy. And so, I ended up going to medical school and I wanted to be a general surgeon and found out that I didn't like trauma as much as I thought I did and.
One thing led to another and I found myself in plastic surgery where I thought I'd be a reconstructive surgeon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you work in the hospital for years before you went out on your own and got Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I worked for three years at Mount Sinai before employed by the hospital. And eventually it was, it was, it was, it was a long three years and it was time to move on.
Got super frustrated with insurance and management, et cetera, et cetera. And It's not a decision that I ever made. I just kept acclimating towards, well, I have to pay the bills now. Now I've got a couple of kids and I've got bills to pay and I don't have any choice and I can't get stiff by insurance companies anymore.
And next thing I know, I'm a cosmetic surgeon,
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I mean, you literally went from the hospital to solo practice with Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. Yeah. So, there's 2003, four, and yeah, I, I just decided I, I can't do this anymore. It became untenable and so I found his face on Park Avenue and we did and moved on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because when I met you, you were on Park Avenue and you have since moved, but what possessed you to, to set up shop in the middle of the jungle of New York, in the middle of Manhattan?
I could it be any more competitive in the US or in the world, especially with Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I mean, honestly, I have a very simple answer. My wife, oh, my wife refused to leave the city. Wow. And, and I, and, and I don't think she. What she was asking of me, because you're right, it was very challenging. It was really hard, and it, you know, what it really comes down to is working more, spending more hours, not at home working evenings and weekends and stressing quite a bit, but you make it happen.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you went completely cosmetic and got Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Now I am a hundred percent cosmetic. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now Park Avenue, when you were there, I, I just was so surprised when I b I know quite a few surgeons on Park Avenue and there have to be what a of them, I mean there're a lot surgeons on Park Avenue and I was so surprised how much you get done in such a small space.
It's very interesting because then you go to Texas and you. Your 2000, is there 20,000 square feet? You know, it's just crazy, the, the amount of space. But, but because of that, does it make you decide, I'm just going to do surgery or just going to do nonsurgical, or I'm only going to bring on a couple people?
Like how does that affect you? Building a practice? With slight, you know, with tight tightness, especially with Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yes. It, it, you're absolutely right. It does, because there's physically no place to put too many employees, number one. The, the overhead is enormous. And so, I've been forced to think about, well, what, what can I act?
Like I mentioned before, at the end of the month, The rent has to be paid at the end of the month. Verizon, the phone bill has to be paid. There's no, there's no negotiation about it. So, you really are forced to, to look at everything really closely. And it, it's a big challenge. There's no, I don't really offer any spa services because I don't have the space for that kind of thing.
It, it has affected some business decisions when you talk about investing in technology, because if I want to buy a gadget that takes. A whole room. I can't give up a room for, you know, an hour at a time for some treatment because you know that that room cost me. We literally have, at one point I had it figured out what it cost me to breathing air for an hour in my office.
It's insane. And, you know, you, you, you just can't, you can't give, you can't give it up that easily. And I noticed. As the years went by, I started to figure out that industry really wants a piece of us. And you know, they love the idea of cosmetic work. But I think you have to be really careful, very picky, and choosy about who you get involved with, with a lot of the industry folks that are out there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you were on Park Avenue, did you have an OR suite in.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I had the world's smallest or, yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Cause I don't remember seeing it when I visited your Park Avenue prestige location.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: It was it was a big problem. I, I was able to get it quite certified. It was, it was a, it was a challenge though, because I, be it, Pardon? No, I'm sorry. In part. Yeah.
No, I could not get it. Quad A certified. Got it. I had to go with joint commission because Quad A actually demands a certain layout and they know that you need some space, God forbid there's an emergency, and you have to give CPR some such thing. Whereas the Joint Commission was much more concerned with process and, and frankly, what I thought it was p.
And it was a very different, I honestly think that the quad a is a, is more appropriate for a surgeon to be certified by than the Joint Commission, at least in private practice. For, for what? What people like me here for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But now you're on 5th Avenue. Did that give you more space versus Park Avenue?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. Yeah. I have a better layout.
I have a little more space. I've already outgrown it, but here we are. I don't, I don't really want to move again because I don't think it makes practical sense. But yes, I, I have a, a real operating room. I am currently quality certified. We have everything we need to, to do real surgery here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha.
And but quite a typically, don't you need that because of the recon? I mean, is there, do, do you have to have that because, well, let me ask you this. Are you watching or hearing more patients wanting local versus general? Less downtime, faster recovery. Are you hearing that? Because I am, the trend is, can I have this done under, as it relates to Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yes, for sure. No question about, I've been hearing that for about 10 years. Yeah. But I'm also, you know, I, one of my, one of the things that I've tried to do is cut out the middle man as much as possible, and I love my colleagueβs anesthesia, but they're expensive. And if I can, you know, patients are willing to pay X for a procedure.
So, if you can do it under local, you're better off if you, but it's got to be safe. So, you know, that, that really depends on the, on the procedure that they're wanting. In New York State, one can't give I the anesthesia without being certified by one of the three big entities. So, it's either joint commission quota, or what is it?
Triple A. And so, I, I stuck with Quad a, it making most sense to me. Gotcha.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then did you add any non-surgical staff or are you doing your own non-surgical? Is it like, how big of a part of that, of your revenues is non-surgical now versus surgical, and how does that tie in with Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Revenue wise, it's still not a big part. I, ironically, I guess I made a small mistake last year.
I hired a nurse who I wanted eventually to take over all my injectables. She ended up not liking the injectables any more than I do, and patients and the patients still want me to do it. So, I don't have a huge injectable practice because frankly, it's, it, I don't find it to be profitable. It's I find it to be a little bit bothersome, to be honest with you.
I know a lot of folks make it work, but in my neck of the woods with the tier that I'm in with the, the, the companies that sell the products, It, it just, you know, hour for hour, I'm better off operating. I like things like Botox. Botox is profitable. It's pretty quick and easy. Some injectables, things like volu in the mid phase, bing bang, boom.
You ring you out, you move on, it's fine. But when folks come in and they want things like lip injections, I find that to be. A money loser. You know, that's a real loss leader. You can do it if you want to, but it's if you think it's going to draw patients for something else, but it's a solid half hour of my time.
Or I suppose if they had a nurse injector hurt time. And invariably you get a handful of people who are unhappy and they want it to solve. Once that is bigger than the other, and you know damn well you put the exact same amount of product on both. It's just, it's that to me, I, I don't want to deal with the headaches.
I don't want to have to spend the time to explain it. It's, it's bothersome. So, I, we service the patients that we have, but we don't look for more of those.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Literally in your situation, if you asked me, I would say the only reason to bring on a nurse injector is if she brought a really good following with her, especially with Park Avenue prestige.
And it's not just injectable but it's Botox and maybe just a really good nurse injector can bring in a good profit center for you but not you getting involved probably.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah, I, I could understand that. I believe you, but that's not what I did. Yeah. Right. And I do love my nurse, the death I hired someone who is terrific at a lot of different things.
She's just not an injector. Right, right, right. She, she took so much off my plates. She runs the, or I don't have to worry about the paperwork in the OR anymore. She's on top of it. Like, like why not write, she's.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, I completely agree. I'm just saying if you did bring in a nurse injector, it would be one who's a really good marketer.
She knows how to market herself. She knows how to bring in her own clientele, so she becomes her own profit center without you involved. But then again, there's always that fear that she'll walk away, you know, and she'll take them with and youβll lose some Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah, it happened to many of my friends. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right, right. So how many staff do you have with your Park Avenue prestige
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Three I have. I have Alex, who's my practice manager. She's been with me since I worked for the hospital. She came with me when I left. Megan is the nurse and my medical assistant is sh.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. You probably sleep well at night with that kind of overhead, now with Park Avenue prestige. You know, watching some of the others there are two ways to do this.
You either build a kingdom or you build a lifestyle typically. And some surgeons are just built to just build, build, build. And others are built to, no, I want to see my family periodically, soβ¦
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Well, it's a mixed bag. You know, I decided, you're right. The way I looked at it was different.
I, I, I know that there's a certain. When I was buying my space, I thought, well, if I could afford to get more space and then rent space out and you know, set up some of the spa services we talked about, that would be great. That's a good business plan. But as I mentioned, my father was a fireman and I did.
And in New York you need at least 50% down. So, if somebody wants a million dollars for an office, you need 500 K to put down in cash. And it was not so easy. You know, there was this little financial crisis we had in the middle of my career. There's been a few stumbling blocks we come across, so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure and as it related to Park Avenue prestige.
Have you ever tried to work with another surgeon or, you know, share expenses or any of that, or any thought of doing that?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: There's always a thought. I kick it around periodically. I'd rather stay friends with people. I, you know, we cover for each other. We look out for one. Somebody needs Botox. We, we, we blend it to each other and whatnot.
But I haven't really seen too many successful stories there. And, and even when the group stays together, at least in my neck of the woods, thereβs a lot of strife that goes on in the back, back room. I, I just, I, I sort of like running things this way. As I said, when I worked at the hospital and I had associates, it wasn't as smooth as I thought it would be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I, I also don't know many who have made it work. The ones that have, they have very thick boundaries like you do neck. I do neck down or I'm the dictator. You're this, you know boy, too many cooks in the kitchen, especially in terms of Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: And then at the end of the current contract, there's never going to be a partnership.
And the junior guy gets kicked out and I don't, you know, now that I'm on the other end, right now, I would be the senior guy. I, I don't want to screw over one of my residents. I have no interest or, or a younger guy, woman, man. I, I just, I think it's better. Like I say, we cover for each other. I do my thing.
You do your thing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have any words of wisdom for, I know you hang around with the residents, you're training them. Are there any suggestions you're giving them or recommendations? How in the world with a, with a newbie entered this marketplace, especially in New York with Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: You know, I, I, I think right now so much has changed, right?
It's only been 20 years only, but so much has changed. I, I really think that when you first finish, your best move is to be employed somehow. And in order to do that, your best move to get a job is probably doing a fellowship that somebody wants to, you need some advanced skills, which is wholly unfair because you're in your mid-thirties by the time you finish plastic surgery training.
But I, I. I think that's probably what I would do. I might, I've gone back to telling them you might want to think about a microsurgery fellowship because then that gets your foot in the door, you'll get privileges. You know, when I finished, my biggest challenge was getting, I couldn't get my hands on an application to a hospital to apply for privileges.
It was a big game. It was, it was unbelievable. You know? Well, you have to meet the chairman first. Okay. One thing. Oh, you know, he's a surgeon. He's very busy. Maybe about six weeks from now. Okay, fine. I'll take that appointment day prior. Get a phone call. Dr. So-and-so can't meet you. He's sorry. He apologizes, but he has emergency surgery.
He can't, well, when can I see me at six weeks from now? And so, it goes. And I was never able to, well, it was very challenging. You had to pull some strings. I, I, I got awfully lucky in a couple of different ways to, to make things happen for myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I do know because I also have been around 22 years and I'm watching the, the older guys, you know, starting to think about exiting and that's when they have to start saying, Okay, I like to run my own show, but now I need to figure this out.
And they try to bring someone on and is so difficult bringing the right person on it matches your values and your vision. So, nothing easy about that. So, what would you say is the biggest challenge facing surgeons today? Just with all the changes happening, any suggestions there, especially in the areas of Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Oh, wow. I have several thoughts about that.
I mean, what, the biggest one, like I mentioned, I, I bailed out of insurance work. I'm very lucky to be in that position. But I, I just found that there were too many times, you know, there was always this phenomenon where they pay you less than at a time prior when they deny services, et cetera. But then there was one case in particular that I did a few years ago, and I just said, That's it no more.
Because I took care of a patient who I cared about very much. I knew this guy for a long time. And when I would, when I would do some work for folks who were paraplegic and such, I really felt like a doctor. You know, I was doing it because I wanted to do the right thing. But then again, you do have to be paid.
Big operation weeks of care in the hospital. The insurance company paid me zero. They denied it. Totally. And I said, what do you mean? What, how refile that that must be wrong. I spoke to my biller, no, just do it again. And they said, no, They, they don't think that you did what you said you did. I did a flap.
What are you talking about? So, I compared my note for the same patient from 10 years prior and I haven't dictated all, you know, you get into habits. It was almost the same. No. Why didn't they paid for it before, but not now. I had to have a one to one with a representative, a physician from the insurance company.
And, and I said, what do you mean I didn't do a flap? And look, I, I said, I rotated and I advanced the muscle and filled in the gap and blah, blah, blah, and covered the bone. He says, Doctor, you, you didn't name the blood vessel that supplied the flap, and therefore we don't consider it to be a, a rotated flap.
So, what are you talking? And the end of the story was, I got $0 for that one, and I, I, that's it. I said, no more, never again. And I haven't I feel terrible, but what? Look, once in a while I can still operate on people. I, I do across sometimes. You know, I just, I, I, I'd rather not deal with the hassle. I found that we wasted more time and more of my brain power.
Trying to get the few dollars that they might be willing to pay for something that I should just spend that time marketing and getting other cases that pay me ahead of time and we take care of business.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why I only work on the fun side of medicine because as much as we all need the recon side, especially when something goes horribly wrong in our own lives, I don't know who's going to be there to help us
Cause it just, they're, they've made it almost impossible for these surgeons who have spent what years and decades trying to learn this craft and they're not paying them and there's no upside to the darn thing. And I, what a shame, you know. And it's not just the, like the zero reimbursement, it's the time and the negativity and the mind space you have to put into fighting for it.
Then you still don't even get it. So, ah, I stay away from it, for sure. So, let's talk about something more fun and that's marketing, but in your world, how in the world do you differentiate yourself? By the way, I, people used to say, you know what, New York it, it goes both ways. There are a lot of competitors, but there are still like 8 million people that live.
Did. Is that still true or did everyone move to Texas or Florida or something like, so what's your population like in New York, or on Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Well, the catchment area is still the TR tri-state region, so it's still something like 24 million people. Oh, so it's million in the island, in and around the city, I should say. Okay. They come from long and con jersey.
They sometimes fly in from other states. I've had several people fly in from Australia. I remember talking to this one woman on the phone and saying, you realize it was still the telephone by the way. I said, you know, you're literally going to fly past every other plastic surgeon on the planet to get here.
I'm not that good. You can go to somebody, go to la, go to Singapore. It's got to be somebody. And she wanted me to do it, so, okay, fine. You know, I wasn't going to argue with her too much. There's, there's still this when you talk about marketing. Yes. I was looking at a space next to Mount Sinai Hospital.
Mount Sinai is on fifth Avenue, but it's a little north. It's, it's almost Spanish. It's big borders on Spanish Harlem. And there was an office that was becoming available back in 2007 or eight before eight. Right. Before the crash, and I loved it. It would've been a fantastic space, 2100 square feet. Wow.
Upper level, lower-level cetera, condominium, so only 10% down. None of this 50% down. Stuffed. Yeah. And I thought, wow, I could actually afford this one. And it's beautiful. I asked, one of my patients said, if my office wasn't on Park Avenue, if, if I, my, if I was up by the hospital on hundred first Street, would you have come to see me?
She didn't late, she said. I said, But I'm the same guy. Why wouldn't you see me? And Sure. Our answer was very simple. Everybody knows if you want a good plastic surgeon, you have to go to Park Avenue. And I thought to myself, Okay, I can't fight this kind of stupidity. This is what they believe this is. This is just how it is.
So I went, Whoa. So, you know, I've been on park, I've been on fifth. This has not hurt me. I mean, I'm not fit, but I'm a little, I'm looking at the Guggenheim right behind your screen, right. And it, it's worked out fine, but I don't have any special abilities that anybody else in the country doesn't have. We all did basically the same training.
So, I, I do think there's something to be said for location in, in terms of, you know, the rest of the marketing. I've taken my lumps, I've, I've made some mistakes right now. I think social is the way to go. I, I think that's the best bang. Bang for your buck, bang for your time. It's where everybody, its worldly eyes are.
So, we, we spend a little more time there now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I also checked out your Instagram because quite frankly, the cosmetic patients want to know who you are as a person, human being father, wife, I mean, husband, whatever, dog lover. I like the dog part. But I, so I checked it out and I saw that you did a tour of your office.
I walking out the door of your office and it was like the most beautiful, gorgeous, stay in New York City. And I thought, well, I, we should always look like. That was great. Then it showed the Guggenheim and, and you did like a little tour and the coffee place that's outside on the other side and it was so that was, that was fantastic.
And it's so true. You have to be in the right neighborhood, you know, to, you need the cache. It's very helpful. So, I take it you didn't take that other building over when getting your Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: No, it didn't make that rule. But you know, it's, it's true. Perception is reality. You got to deal with it. You got to roll with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know how many surgeons use Park Avenue? They're not there, but they go there like once a month and they put it on their website. You know, they have a Park Avenue address. And I mean, Real Park Avenue is, does say something to a lot of people, so use what you have to if you have it. So, regarding your demographics, because I did notice Alex, your practice manager, who's been with you forever, and how helpful is that to have somebody who's been there from the beginning?
It's invaluable. Don't ever lose her. The continuity of that.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Priceless. Yeah. It, it is. And she is, you're right, you're right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And she brings Spanish with her. Has that been helpful to open up your target market with Park Avenue prestige or has that been helpful for you?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: It's been, yes. It's, it's that helpful when you need it. We don't need it every day.
We have taught, she and I have spoken you know, do we want to have a Spanish version of the website? Should I, should I brush up on more of my Spanish? Cause I used to ablo a little bit, but. The truth is that for the last few years we've been busy enough without worrying about it. So, we, we haven't now with this coming recession, if he thinks to start drinking again, but I haven't needed to go down that road too much so far.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So social media, you have like 13,000 followers, so you're doing a good job. You have somebody that works with social media. In today's world, I really think you need a dedicated, at least part-time dedicated person That is their job to focus on the social media and turn you into a star. Like it's their, like, it would be their responsibility to tell you, Okay, today we're doing this.
While they're walking, while you're walking down the hall, let me ask you a question. You know I really think you need that and almost a videographer or somebody who's good at video editing. So, your person like can take the raw footage, you know, of your iPhone or the iPad and then somebody can do something fun with it.
There's so much you can do on social media now that's super entertaining and you don't have to be the entertainment. But they can edit you into being that entertaining part, as it relates to Park Avenue prestige.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Right. I couldn't agree with you more so a couple years ago I made that decision and I hired someone part-time was worth every nickel.
And then some, I mean, you know, you know, somebody told me a long time ago, if you're doing your marketing right, doesn't cost you anything. It makes you money. You got to remember that investment. For sure, for sure. So, I had somebody who was fantastic. I didn't know how good she was. And then she, she went on to graduate school.
And I, I had to hire someone else who I loved very much, and she was terrific. But she wasn't as dynamic. She's now left also, and this moment we're actually kind of looking for the next person. And to the point you're making, I would, I'm looking part-time, full-time, part-time. Fulltime. You could make that a full-time job.
I mean it, I think it would be worth. The budget, but it's got to be the right person. As you mentioned, they have to have some insight. They have to know you and understand your brand and what you want to bring to the table. I had somebody here for a very brief minute and she was, trying to get me to do some, some, some funky things.
She didn't want me to dance on camera or anything because I made that was LA that down immediately. Yeah. Some of the things she wanted to do were just not on brand and I said, I don't think I want to do that. That particular video, I don't like that concept or that music and, you know it didn't work out between us, so we had two different visions of what I, I was going to be willing to offer.
And I also think that you're right, you need, and we're currently now working on mixing in some of the fun video along with before and after. Because my perception, and you correct me if I'm wrong cause you're the marketing person, but I think people want, they want to know that you're relatable.
The proof is in the pudding man. They want to see that before and after, once in a while, and they want to know that you can deliver the goods that they're looking for. See, we're trying to find a better mix to, to offer both.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you need both for sure, especially at a location with Park Avenue prestige. They want the before and after photos. You, you want them more than they do, but they want those chi, well, they want the transformational results.
They want to see that tummy that was out of control and now it is tight. You know, they want to see really good results and the patient's stories. If you could get the new person you., if they could get good at finding out that patient's story, that's what we're looking for, because we're looking for somebody like us, like, oh, I had three children.
I used to be so hot, and now my body's shot, you know? And I chose doctor's theory because, and then this is what he did for me and how my life has changed since then. We love the stories, but then we love the pictures because we want to see ourselves in those pictures. Oh, I even tummy like that. And now I can have that, that fantastic.
And then the entertaining part that is becoming because of where we're all heading in the world, apparently everything has to be fun. Now, I didn't come from that world, I came from the world of work hard, hard labor, and That's how you succeed. But apparently, and you did too, the blue-collar kind of mentality.
And nowadays it's not like that and people want to be so entertained. So, you've got to figure out that balance of how much do you want to share with them. That's another thing, like you're a limited on the family part, but how do you feel about sharing the family with the kids, with the hobbies you know, your vacations where you know what you did this weekend.
Are you comfortable with. Yeah,
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I'm still comfortable with most of that. I, I, I don't mind too much of that. And so far, my family hasn't objected either, cause some people are not comfortable being on camera. But I, I think that the big challenge now, as you mentioned before about the patient stories, you know, Tim Cook is killing me.
I'm a big, I'm a big Apple guy. I'm, I'm looking at you right now on a love his products, but he's got a point about privacy and he's made everybody much more aware. Three or four years ago, it was, it was so much easier to get folks to, to allow me to share their story or their, their before and after.
Look, I'll, I'll, I'll either cover your eyes, I'll crop out the top of your face or all this or that. And nowadays boy, it's tough. Folks are very private. They, they're very insecure about having their identity out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now I, I'm going to question some of that because there are also that, that whole other, it's a 50/50 thing.
There are others who can't wait to put themselves out there with Park Avenue prestige. They're such narcissists, and they just love sharing everything. So, you just need to find them, you know? And I would just keep asking everybody until the right, you know, some of them say yes.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Well, we do, of course. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is I'm finding a trend, at least in my neighborhood, where there's, there there's more interest in privacy than there used to be.
And they'll be at that, you know, it used to be a lot easier for me to, to convince patients to let us use their photos. Then it is right now. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Actually, I attended a seminar on this and there's a big war between Google, Facebook, and Apple and Apple because Apple literally runs the whole show with the darn mobile phone.
Even though Google owns the world, Apple has a very big. Control button on top of things. And all of us got to pick that question. You know, they had to put in that question, do you iPhone, do you want us to share all your information with third party vendors? Like the, like the question was, of course we don't, you know, like 90% of people said no, but yes, the privacy thing, and you know what?
I heard the, the reason they're doing that, Apple is going to get into the advertising. That's what I heard. And so, they need to control that now so they can now have this audience that they're not sharing with others and then they can start, start advertising, charging for advertising.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I donβt know, that would be an interesting paradigm shift for Apple, but yeah, well look, we'll see.
But yeah, I, I believe that Tim Cook has a lot to do with meta stop dropping quite a bit the last year, cause of some of the constraints you've put on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's why I, I hope everybody embraces social media because another thing that's happening out there, even if you paid to get on the first page of Google, nowadays with search rankings, they're not going to let you there.
There's so, there's only so much room left unless you do the pay per click or Google AdWords, which are there's, there's a lot of big challenge to that, but they don't even have to go to your website anymore. Google's going to great lengths to make sure they don't leave the homepage. Oh, you want to know how much a tummy tech.
Oh, you want to know what the downtime is? Oh, do you want like, oh, you want to know you know, all, everything you wanted to know about it. Tummy tuck. You don't even have to the first page, even if realized, wait a second, I went, I'm meant to go find Siri's trying to, and I, gosh, it's.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's true. Yeah. So how do you feel about patient retention at your Park Avenue prestige location? Because I'm focused more on that than ever. You've been around for 20 years, you have a patient list that knows, likes, and trusts you. Do you spend any time, effort, and money on them versus looking for new stranger patients?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: You're, I'm embarrassed to tell you, we don't do very.
We don't, and, and I know it's in your book, and I actually have purchased some of your, your other tools to make sure that that happens with email campaigns and such. And we've not been very good about it, but, well, look, you know what, the faucet was wide open since the pandemic. I mean, we, it was so easy.
There were patients falling out of the sky. We didn't have to make any. To, to bring anyone in. Things are about to change. They're, they're changing already right now. And I can see that coming our way very quickly. Just to give you an idea, a flavor. In June, we had a four-month waiting list. It's now the end of September, and we don't.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I've heard that all over the country and also at your Park Avenue prestige area. And it can, do you know how quickly it happened? That's how quickly it can dry up. And we've all been around for a while. It's like, first of all, did anybody see that surge coming? I didn't. I thought, here we go again. Here we go With the DM recession again, we're all in trouble.
And instead, it was like, people must have plastic surgery, they absolutely must have it and they must have it now. That was crazy.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. And some of my junior staff, you know, they, they, they didn't understand. So, as you mentioned, Alex and I are together for 20 years and the younger staff didn't understand why, like, why are you guys still working?
What you mean you want to stay late again? Why, why are you going to work on Saturday? Like, how much do you need to get by? And I kept saying, we got to make hay. Well, a sun is shining. Yeah. This would not last forever. Yep. And I kept feeling as though, you know, there's a tiger chasing me and I got to get ahead and.
Finally, the tiger's here. I think, you know, finally, it took a while, took a couple of years, but here we go now we're going to have to deal with it, but we're in a much better position and I trust that all of us are in a better position now than, you know, maybe in, in oh 8, 9, 10, when we all struggled so hard.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, we're going to wrap it up now. I know I was going to ask you what drives you, but I know you have a lovely wife and three little kids. Actually, they're not so little anymore. How, how old are your.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: My oldest is 18, 16 and 14 on Monday.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God, how cute is that? So, is there anything interesting you can tell us about yourself that we don't know that you're willing to share with the world during your transition to getting Park Avenue prestige?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Gosh, I, wow, that comes out of the blue. I'm a about myself. I still, I still like working with my hands, even at home. I am a car buff and I have an old MG that I'm forever tinkering with. Trying to teach my kids how to turn a wrench and some, sometimes they're interested, most times not. But I, I still enjoy working on the old rust bucket.
So, do you drive? Yeah. Yes, I'm a New Yorker. It's true. But I grew up on Long Island, so I drive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: OK. Ae any of the kids going to follow you into medicine?
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: No. No. They, none of them have an interest. They all say, and this is the sad part, they all say, you know, we never see, we never see you. We never say, you growing up, you work so hard.
I don't want to work like that. Why would I do that? And I kind of, and I've said to them sometimes when we're really being serious and I say, look, you know, it's true. I, but I, your mother and I worked our tails off to blaze this trail. All you have to do is go to school and your name is on the door. The place is here.
Just walk in and operate. But so far there's no takers. We'll see how things change if they change as they kids grow. But so far, no.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well, it has been a pleasure talking to you again about getting some Park Avenue prestige I hope to see you at a meeting someday soon. It looks like the travel's coming back, although it has not been fun to travel.
No, you can't seem to get anywhere where I want to go on time, but whatever. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks for your time.
Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Thank you and thanks for all you've done to help me in my practice over the last 20 years. I, I tell all my residents, they've got to read your book. I've bought it for a few of them so they can look it over.
And I love your advice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Sterry got Park Avenue prestige.
If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Sterry, you could actually reach out to his website at, www.DrSterry.com, www.DrSterry.com.
A big thanks to Dr. Sterry for sharing his journey on moving his practice and attaining Park Avenue prestige.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βPark Avenue Prestige β with Thomas P. Sterry, MD."
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and www.BlackNoseJob.com with Jason S. Hamilton, MD.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "www.BlackNoseJob.com β with Jason S. Hamilton, MD."
I am a huge fan of specializing. Becoming an expert in something, rather than a generalist in lots of different things, has its advantagesβ¦.
- You have more focus.
- You get really good at one thing.
- You stand above the competition.
- Youβre able to charge more.
Frankly, thatβs how I grew my own business. I picked a very specific market (cosmetic surgeons) to help grow their practices.
Iβm pretty sure you wouldnβt be following me if I was the self-proclaimed marketing guru to dentists and realtors and lawyersβ¦.you get the picture.
So, in this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interviewed someone who took this strategy to heart and really went for it.
Itβs Jason Hamilton, MD, facial plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills.
Dr. Hamilton is the director of facial plastic surgery at the Osborne Head and Neck Institute based at Cedar-Sinai Medical Towers.
He specializes in primary and revision African American rhinoplasty, while pioneering new methods designed specifically for the black nose.
He even owns the URL www.BlackNoseJob.com.
We talked about where he got the courage to specialize and what happened when he did (hint: huge drop in business, then came back stronger).
Visit Dr Hamilton's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
www.BlackNoseJob.com β with Jason S. Hamilton, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and www.BlackNoseJob.com with Jason S. Hamilton, MD. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's guest is very special, it's Jason S. Hamilton, MD, who will discuss with us about www.BlackNoseJob.com.
He's a director of facial plastic surgery at the Osborne Head & Neck Institute based at Cedar-Sinai Medical Towers in Beverly Hills. Now, Dr. Hamilton attended Duke University and did a fellowship through the AAFPRS. He's also held several teaching appointments as an attending surgeon and clinical faculty member in the department of surgery at Cedar-Sinai, where he teaches facial plastic and reconstructive surgery.
Now, he's also lectured internationally and he is published over 54 peer reviewed scientific articles and book chapters, and Dr. Hamilton specializes in primary and revision African American rhinoplasty, while pioneering new methods designed specifically for the black nose. Now, his goal is to give his patients a beautiful nose that will always look natural throughout their entire life.
That's no easy feat for Jason S. Hamilton and his www.BlackNoseJob.com. Now, he's been honored with numerous awards and is considered one of the top African American rhinoplasty surgeons in the country and probably the world. Now, he's an academic mentor to high school students. He goes on missions he gives back by working with several humanitarian organizations such as Face to Face, the National Domestic Violence Program, and Faces of Honor.
Dr. Hamilton, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It is a pleasure to have you.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Thank you, and thanks for that great introduction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, there was a lot to go through with how you, Jason S. Hamilton, MD and your www.BlackNoseJob.com. I mean, I had been researching you and I thought, Dear Lord, this guy's been around. And you look a lot younger for all of your achievements, but congratulations for that.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah. Well, you know, we're, we're definitely in the right business. Keep looking younger.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right, Jason S. Hamilton, MD. So, you have to start me out with, how did you say, were you a little boy saying, I want to be a facial plastic surgeon and create www.BlackNoseJob.com, or how do you get.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, so initially I I'm originally from Jamaica. That's where I was born.
So, we immigrated to Florida. And I had an interest in science and I like kids, you know, that those were my interests. So, I thought I wanted to be a pediatrician. No one in my family's in medicine. And so, when I got to medical school, you know, you get introduced to the different specialties.
So, my passion very quickly was anatomy, and I loved the head and neck area. And I started spending time kind of playing hook in the days because our lectures were recorded. So, I, I would listen to them. And in the day, I would go hang out with the surgeons in the hospital and try to figure out what I want to do with my life.
And so, hanging out and spending time with some of the reconstructive head and neck surgeons where they were rebuilding jaw bones, rebuilding tongues pharynx cheeks doing trauma surgery. That's where I really got my passion and interest in becoming a facial plastic surgeon. I didn't know that.
You would go through e n T to, to get to that point. So that was a surprise. But e NT is where you learn about all the anatomy of the head and neck and obviously all of the cosmetic and plastic surgery procedures. So, I really got passionate about in my ENT training about sticking with plastics and I was really, really interested in the reconstructive side of things.
I had no cosmetic interests whatsoever. I. Thinking about being a quote unquote plastic surgeon. I only wanted to deal with reconstruction, and then that kind of morphed as time went by. Patients who I had done some reconstructive procedures would come back and ask for cosmetic procedures.
They in turn would bring family members who I would accept as patients because it was a direct referral. And then, you know, I became passionate about that. And then things just kind of took a natural course from.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Jason S. Hamilton, MD, were you ever in solo practice on your way to figuring out www.BlackNoseJob.com, or did you go straight from the hospital and then join Osborne Head and Neck?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: How did that transition happen? Yeah. I was never in a solo practice. I think our practice is kind of a hybrid, mm-hmm. because we, we published a lot. We have a foundation that does mission work, you know, throughout the world. We are involved with training of residents and even mentoring college and high school students.
So, when I. Was training in my residency. That's where I actually met Dr. Osborne. He was a chief and then our attending. And I was a first-year general surgery resident coming into the program. That's where we met and we kind of gained a lot of respect for one another. We started writing papers and presenting at that time.
And then when I was going to graduate and start my fellow. He was starting out here at Cedar Sinai, and at that time he was the, the first director of Head and neck cancer at Cedar Sinai. And so, when I was going to graduate, he, he kind of pulled me to the side and he was like, I know, I know you're going to hear a lot of stuff, but I think we should work together.
Right? And, and I kind said, hey, you're an oncologist, how are we going to work together? It's never going to work. And, and we basically came to the conclusion that the most important thing, and I think it's important for, for all docs or anyone business, is that if you have someone who is dedicated, enthusiastic, hardworking, intelligent...
And, and your friends then you can find common grounds to build something up, you know? And that might not be worth letting go to work with someone who just happens to be in your specialty, but you don't have anything in common, you know? So, so we just made a decision that we're going to figure out how we're going to work together, right?
And I, we started doing that while I was a fellow. We started building websites figuring out how we were going to kind of take the world by storm, so to speak. And then as soon as I graduated, I came here and I've been here ever since.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding, Jason S. Hamilton, MD. You know when I looked at your website, I was, whoever did your branding was kind of magnificent because it looks very hospital-accredited and benefits from www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Like I, I thought, Jason S. Hamilton, MD, it was a hospital because of the way you have done it. And it wasn't the, your usual, like there are no social media logos. It was, it's very educational, straightforward serious. You know, you guys are not clowning around on this thing. And I thought, how interesting, because was that the point to look and also calling yourself institute, which can help with www.BlackNoseJob.com.
But was that the point to not be the typical solo practice going after all the cosmetic? You don't, you wanted to be a teaching institute? Yes. Training
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: was that, yeah. You hit the nail right on the head. So just coming out and getting started we figured that if we just do what everybody else does, right,
Yes. They're going to be two problems. One, we're in a big market, so we're not in a smaller mid-size city. We're in Los Angeles, you know, which is equivalent to New York or Dallas or Miami. So, we're in a big. Everyone is already doing what you're thinking about doing very well, right? And that's why you have an interest in being there because that's where the consumers are.
So, we quickly identified just from our training again. That we had interest and talent in areas that our colleagues probably didn't have a big interest in, you know, or shied away from because the surgeries took a long time or at the time they didn't reimburse well or They couldn't figure out how to integrate it into their practice.
But we started in that place. We said, we're not going after anything, or we're not going to take any interest in things that everybody's doing. Right. And so that's a slow process, right? But it has a future, you know, in our minds it has a future. And that's, that's, that's why our branding and our logo we wear white coats, you know, preferentially, we wear white coats.
We don't wear suits. We, we have a, a kind of clinical looking office, like a hospital. We don't have marble on the floors. Because that's not what we're, we're conveying. And that's not what we're selling and that's not what we're giving patients. What we're trying to convey is that we're kind of super specialists.
We, we have a passion for what we do. If you are in need of our services, we're going to approach this at the highest level. And you can be assured that we have training, we have research background, and that you're going to be getting delivered the highest-level product. And that's our focus. So, I'm glad to see that's your, your impression of what our branding is and because that's exactly what we want it to be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,, I think it's working for you because if I'm not mistaken, you have eight surgeons now at this point. Yeah, yeah. Where, where are you going with this? And you're probably doing a lot of reconstructive as well as cosmetic or how is that to up in your practice?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: So, one of the things is that everyone coming into the practice is pretty much doing something different, you know?
And so, for myself, just organically I probably work with my partner doing reconstruction on all his cases. Oh. And then in my, in my in my practice, I'm mostly focused on rhinoplasty and some reconstructive things with the nose, like fixing supple perforations. So that's one of my big things.
And then then the side, the side interest just because I love sports and we've actually treated a lot of athletes like Stephan Johnson. Yeah. We're going to talk about that next. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so that, that's kind of my passion. So, I, I, we have the professional sports athletes that take care of myself.
Then we do the reconstructive surgery, and then the rest has been kind of whittled down in focus to mostly rhinoplasty and reconstructive nasal surgery. And, and specifically for the, the African, you know, descent population or ethnic rhino.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So back to running a practice, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,, it's difficult enough for two surgeons to make a decision and have the same vision.
So, kudos to, you know, Hamilton and Osborne. Good job there. But when you bring on a bunch of others, how difficult is it for you to keep that brand intact? Make sure everyone has the same values, to have the same vision? Is that, is it, does it get more difficult as you add more surgeons?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I think actually it's the opposite.
Oh, right. So, it actually has been easier as we've added more surgeons because we look more at the brand, you know, as, as we've become larger. Right. So, so what I mean by that is when it was just, when it's the two of us we have an. We have an idea. When there's six of us, we have a brand, you know, and this is kind of the way, these are the jerseys that, you know, the Rams wear, you know, yeah.
This is the locker room. These are the shoes we wear. We run this kind of offense and it's easy to recruit and you know bring people in when you're very organized. And so, we focus on being organized sticking to the brand, not deviating from that. And then, so when you're bringing in new people, it just seems like this is how the organization is.
So, I liken it to, if you join the university of, you know, XYZ you wouldn't think that you could change your badge to whatever you wanted. I'm going to park where I want to park. No, they're going to tell you where you're going to park. These are the coats you wear; these are the color scrubs. You're not allowed to wear, you know, jackets with hoodies.
There's all the rules. You're going to get a flu vaccine or have a good reason. And so actually the, the, the more people we've added, the more solid the branding has been and easier it has been to get conformity. And then when we were interviewing people, you're, you're saying this is what we're looking for this is what we're all doing.
Are you interested in that? You know, and, and, and some people are not because as we were, you know, speaking before which we'll, we'll talk about. Everyone doesn't want to super focus or pick something that, that they want to go after. Cause it's scary. It, it's scary to just say, I'm going to focus on like highlight surgery or osis surgery.
Because you, you really have to have an acumen for it to, to build that practice and, and kind of just let everything else go to the wayside. And that can be a scary.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how difficult has it been getting staff, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,? I know all we're talking about in today, this year, this year we're, we're, we're still having major staff challenges.
Not just finding them, but finding the right people who have the right, I don't know, discipline, whatever. Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,, are you also finding that, or has your branding done so well that you're attracting really key patients?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I think we you know, knock wood we were extremely lucky because at the timing of Covid, which I think is where this great resignation and yeah.
I call it the great reconsideration as well. People are thinking about their lives and now they want to live it, right? Yeah. And, and work is a big part of that. I think that we had had some, I wouldn't call them lifers, but we had, we had a, a critical number of people who had been here for at least 10 years already, right?
So, 90% of the people that were here when Covid hit had been here for 10 years, you know? So, we didn't have a lot of turnover. And everyone is still here, so I don't, we, we didn't feel that, those effects of having to get new people and having staffing issues, et cetera because it pretty much held our core group.
Some people You know, decided to do different things you know, for various reasons. Like, well, I know you guys are still open. I don't want to come into contact with Covid patients. So that's legitimate, you know, But I think going forward, I think staffing as we continue to expand or grow, I think staffing will be an issue.
You know, I think that's something that's, that's hard to resolve for most practices. However, I think we've all embraced technology just like how we're talking right now. You know? Technology is really allowing you to have close communications with your patients that you, you, it wasn't accepted or as easy, you know, as before.
And I think with technology, you can kind of automate some things and then kind of focus on getting great staff, you know? So instead of two good staff members that you add, you can add a great or an exceptional one, and technology can help that member. Do their job and facilitate communicating with patients?
In my opinion, that's my for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, one thing I have noticed with surgeons as they find the riches in the niches, they do, if given the choice, would rather hide out in the OR and never deal with staff or processes or KPIs or SOPs, they don't know what that is. They don't want to know what that is. Yeah. But in your practice, just the feel I get after doing a lot of research on you it feels like you guys just have this under control.
It feels you're very mellow. I love that. Your website's very organized. You just, it just feels very organized as you said. Do you have a management team behind the scenes that's running all this and making this run like a, I'm always trying to help practices run a smooth, like a Swiss Army knife, you know, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Yeah. Like who, who's, who's in the back end?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Well, most, most of it I would say to the credit is my partner, Dr. Osborne. He's very hands on and he's, I would say in a, in a business sense, he's slow to hire. Right. And, and quick to, to fire, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's what they always say, but we don't do it that way, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah. Most people don't do it that way. And so, it's really hard for you to get in here if not impossible. Right. And. And so it, it attracts people who have similar mindsets and are trying to kind of build a career and, and not just, you know, jump from job to job and people grow while they're here.
So, I think that's very attractive. So, he does have a good handle on it. And then, Behind the scenes. We also have great office manager who's been with us since the beginning. And we have good business and, and patient coordinators really keep the three key positions. So, so office management, business, and patient coordination, those, those individuals have been with us for 15 years plus.
And so that has probably been the key to, to our success. I would love to hide in the or under blanket. Anytime I could. But Dr. Osborne and those key people have really made all of our lives, including their own lives better just by being so solid and present in the practice. So yeah, I think that's really important.
Turnover. Turnover can, can kill a great practice, you know? And so, if you can hold on to great staff and make people feel like they can grow in your organization, then, then it, it really takes stress.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it really is the secret, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com. The consistency, and the continuity of having staff that like working together and know how you can just feel it in an office.
You can feel how it's all, it's all working like clockwork. A few hiccups here and there, but that overall, when you're, when you're on your game, you know, when everyone's on their game and they know their role, oh, there's nothing more beautiful than that. Yeah. So, I want to ask you technically some of these questions.
What percentage of your practice is rhino versus face and neck cosmetic surgery, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I would say 99% is Rhino. 99%?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Of those rhinos, how many are cosmetic versus reconstructive, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I would say 75% cosmetic and 25% reconstructive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then how many rhinos per year are you doing that adds up, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I would say if I edited up, so about five, about 250,
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's what I was going to say, right around two 50 or three.
Yeah. How many revision rhinos could you have picked a more difficult procedure? You, you know, you're, most surgeons are very risk averse. You apparently came from another pool. I mean, you, you can't do anything more risky doing rhinos, then doing rhinos that are great for a lifetime. Cause you know, they're going to come back to haunt you, what, five or 10 years later at the time.
So, I'm sorry, I had to go off on that. What you to pick rhinoplasty of all, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: But I agree with you about those elements that it, it is a tough population. It's a tough surgery. A lot of plastic surgeons consider it one of the toughest surgeries because it's a singular unit, right? So, you have two eyes, you can be distracted left and right but the nose is right in the center.
But it's just the challenge, you know? It's very interesting. It does not become mundane. Everyone's nose is different. It's a combination of mom and dad to, to a different percentages. And so, and you're creating a new, a unique product for each patient. It never gets boring. And so that's, that's the, the surgical challenge, right?
Then there's also the challenge of trying to actually help the patient, right? I learned very early that the results don't really matter, right? Because everyone's nose looks different, so the results don't matter as much. The results that the patient is looking for. Yeah. Right. So, we can all think it looks great.
Patient may have some small complaints about asymmetries that, that you may not even see that they really want to be addressed and, and they have a difficult time being happy with anything that you deliver to them or any surgeon delivers to them. And then you have patients who are looking for minor.
Where you as a surgeon are like, no, we can fix all of these things., right? Yeah. And they're like, no, I just want this little bump that I never had before. You know, I got hit with the baseball. I just want you to take that down and I'll be happy. And so, the, the outcome is, is in the eye of the patient for sure.
It's not in your eye. And that is actually what's brought more satisfaction to my practice is not worrying about the surgery as much, which I've worried about to, to, to no end. It's about worrying about can I make this patient happy and if I can't, it doesn't matter what it looks like, right? If it's the best nose on the base of the earth, if I can't make them happy with that nose, then they're not ready for surgery.
And that, that's been the biggest thing that's helped me. And if they can be happy with, with a nose that I can deliver or, or even any surgeon could deliver, then they may be at that time a good candidate to have a revision surgery or a primary surgery. And that's, that's really been the key is, is, is as you're learning, you're going to, you don't know how to take Donna Hump.
You don't know how to get the tip right. You don't, so you are concerned about that as you should be. Yeah. But I'm telling you equally or, or that what trumps that is figuring out should I operate on this patient? You know? And when you're getting started, you won't operate on everyone because you don't have any patience.
You know? So that's what gets you in trouble, I think. But if you can resist that urge to, to just operate and really focus on is this a good candidate? And it can be very reward and then, if you're, if you're picking good candidates, then it's the best surgery. So, most satisfying, you can, you can operate on patients from 16, 17 in, in female 17, 18, 19, and males until they're, you know, I have seven-year-old patients that break their nose.
So, you have a wider range of feasible patients that you can operate on. Right. Who are healthy. Facelifts are older. Population fillers are, I mean, some people are getting fillers very young now, but fillers fat transfer, a blepharoplasty, that's an older population. So, it's actually a wider market, you know, and, and that's also attractive from a business standpoint.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But getting back to the patient, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, this, now, you had so much experience, you probably don't remember, but were you trying to like to, to get into the emotional mindset of a patient is difficult at best? Yeah, so oftentimes I've asked the surgeon, you know, somebody who's been sued, I said, what did you learn from that?
He said that I should have trusted my gut. I knew something was wrong. I knew I thought I could handle. And I couldn't, or it came from left field. Like I don't know what happened. I don't know why this went so sideways. So, are there any pearls there that you learned? Do you have them take a test? Do you have them to go to a psychiatrist?
Are there any telltale signs to watch out for, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, that now you flag immediately and go, uh oh, this isn't going to work out?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, so I think, I think it's a little bit of each. So, one, your gut, if you don't feel good, if it's not a good you are not obligated to do the surgery because someone booked a consultation and you just have to be okay with that.
So, feelings will be hurt. You may have to part ways. You do it kindly professionally and give them back their consultation fee and give them back their feet. Yeah. And, and then just be clean. You give them back their feet and it's clean. Right? No harm to foul. So that's just the gut feeling. The second thing is the, that are, that are red flags are.
Speed. Right. Someone who wants a rhinoplasty they've had this nose their entire life, but they for some reason need to have surgery within three weeks or five days or a month, or it has to get done. Because my birthday's coming up and I've been waiting my whole life for that. That speed is going to put the patient in position where they're not processing all the steps that are coming with specifically rhinoplasty.
Rhinoplasty is getting a graduate or a master's degree. It's a two-year process. Right. You're not going to be healed in a week. Right. And so, the, the speed, the rushing, no, I have to get in now. I'm in town, it just flew in. Yeah. And then I want to have the surgery before I fly out on my... That those are red flags.
That's, that's where problems are going to come from. It's just, just speed, right? And then and then patients who aren't really willing to kind of go through the process and not following directions before you even do the surgery, you know? If you say, can you submit your operating reports from your, your other case, it's been four months.
They, they never get them in. They come in for surgery and say, oh, I just couldn't I don't know what's going on. They, they can't get pictures from before their surgery. That's a red flag. Like you don't have any pictures from before. You know? That can be a red flag for you. Just having difficulty getting information.
They, they don't get their h and p, they're, they're having problems getting labs. All of those things are potentially little. Points where you can overlook it as just, you know, something minor. But those things are going to happen after the surgery as well, and then it becomes a big problem, you know?
So, I think your gut inpatients, you know, and then the patients that are not following your protocol that you set, or they want to modify your protocol. No, I want my sutures out in, in five days, you know, and you always do it in seven. I want my cast off the third day because I need to travel and that's not going to be good for me.
They're trying to modify everything that you're doing. Then that's going to continue after the surgery. So, some, when, when you look back, like, like how you asked your other clients, when you look back, there are red flags the whole time, you know, it didn't, it didn't really come out of left field. There are red flags now.
Sometimes a red flag may pop up. Right the day before surgery or the morning of surgery, and, and you may not have the courage to, to, you know, call it quits at that point, but, but you, but you should, you know, I've, I've canceled someone on the gurney rolling into the OR because they've changed what they, they keep changing what they want.
Oh, I want to take, no, I don't want to take it down. No, I want to leave that. No, I don't want to do it. I'm like, you're not. You know, and I'm very polite. I just say it's probably not a good time right now, you know? And the most patient, every time I've done that, those patients specifically have turned out to be like the best patients.
Oh, nice. Right? Because, because they, they will go back and thank you and say, I, I wasn't happy about things, but then I processed what happened, and I think you were right. I wasn't actually ready. Now I have clarity about what I want to achieve. I appreciate you doing that. And then you turn out to, you have a great relationship.
So even someone who seems like there are, there are potentially you know, a difficult patient for themselves or for you can turn. A good patient, they may need to say psychiatrist, they might need a therapist. You know I had a aha moment walking my dog one day. Right. And you know, we, we are all trained.
And you've probably advised, and you just mentioned it or alluded to it, like, how do you avoid difficult patients? How do you avoid patients that maybe have body dysmorphia that you, you just not going to be able to help them with a knife? Right. That's not the problem. You're not going to be able to help them with a knife or a laser or a procedure.
There are other things that they need to work on before they consider doing that. And so, these are the things you need to do. What are the red flags asked Dr. Other doctors what the red flags and, and I, my aha moment was, no, that's actually not the right thing to do. When someone comes in and we do their labs and they, they look like they're a diabetic.
We all. Stop and we send them to the endocrinologist. We don't try to figure it out, right? We don't, that's not what we do. We're not the expert. There's a whole specialty for that, right? If someone comes in and I've had that and their HCG is positive, like they're pregnant the week up, we stop. We send them to the OB/Gyn.
We said, figure out what's going on. Congratulations. We'll see you when you, when you're, when you're ready to have surgery. We don't try to handle it, you know? If someone's thyroid is high, you know, preoperatively, we send them to the endocrinologist. Again, if someone has a blood dysplasia, their, their coags are off.
We don't try to figure it out. We send them to the hematologist, they get it worked up and, and then they come back. If, if they have tachycardia, send them to cardiologists, but if they're. Or they've had too many surgeries, or you're not sure that their goals can be met. We try to figure it out and that's not what we should do.
We should send them to a therapist or a psychiatrist. Right. That was kind of my aha moment. So, I don't try to figure it out. I'm, I'm not trying to manage anyone's Body dysmorphia of myself just because I'm a plastic surgeon. That's something that needs to be managed by a therapist or a psychiatrist.
And, and maybe they can have treatment just like people may have short times where they're depressed. But maybe 50% of patients with true body dysmorphia can have procedures with therapy and, and, and setting the standard about what we're going to do. We're going to do one surgery, you know, we're not going to go back and keep doing things and adjusting.
And, and I think that can be very helpful for practice. So, you shouldn't try to figure out how to manage you know, difficult patients. Before if you sense it, you can ask them, Hey I'm not sure that you're, you're. Confident about what procedure goals you want to reach. And, and I think that I would like you to see our therapist or our counselor, you know to kind of help you manage those and make sure that we're communicating effectively and that we, we.
At absolute minimum, we want to meet your goals. But we'd like to exceed them if the patient's response is right, I'm offended. Absolutely not. Then the, you probably avoided something, right? If their response is okay, then that's probably a good patient, even if they don't need it, right? Or, or they just need one session.
You're probably going to avoid some difficult patients like that. So, so you can use that to kind of you know, check, test the water, so to speak. If you, if you re, I've had patients who have cardiac issues and I'm like, I think I need you to see a cardiologist and, and they don't want to do it, and it's no problem.
We're not doing surgery like we don't even think anything of it. But if it's so. With mental disease or, or something where someone has body dysmorphia, we feel a little bad internally about sending them away. Right. But we shouldn't, you know, we actually should help them and, and get them the right services they, they need just like we would with a diabetic or, you know a thyroid patient or anyone else that's preoperatively having surgery work up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have I know words matter, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com. I don't know if you can do this, but maybe call them a cosmetic coach instead of a psychiatrist. Just not to offend people because especially women are really funny about being labeled certain things. Yeah. Especially everybody is probably but I have noticed just being in this industry as long as I have if you a, a woman, several women will not use the word facelift.
They can't say it. They'll say I just need a little something. You know, something, something down here. You're like... Yeah. They cannot say facelift. And I think how interesting. So anyway, so then you try to figure out other words to say that's more comfortable for them anyway. So, having said all of that, what do you do?
You have to have tips for the unhappy patient, the one that you have had, they've had surgery, you think they have a fantastic result, or maybe you don't, I mean, maybe it wasn't your best work, but any tips for how to make them happy because that can go down this long road of stuff. Jason S. Hamilton, MD, how does it relate to www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Well, I think one, you want to be responsive, you know, you want to respond to their complaints or their desires to follow up with you or show you what's going on.
If, if they're, if the patient's talking to you, then you still have the patient, right? So, you should avoid middle men, right, or middle person, right? Don't put someone in between you and the patient. You should be talking to the patient yourself. That, that decreases their angst. If someone has a problem, they don't want to feel like they can't get to their doctor, right?
If you can bring them in, in person or look at them face to face, the video is better than a phone call, right? And then have them point out in detail It's bothering them. If a, if the concern is really just a matter of time, you know, let's see how things pan out, then you just keep close.
Follow up with them. If it's something that you need to fix or you feel like, Yeah, I could've done that better, you just need to tell them, we need to fix that right away, you know, no hesitation. And then work. Now, you know, many surgeons may have a difficult situation as far as getting people back to the operating room or getting things taken care of.
I'm lucky that we can just take patients back to surgery pretty easily. But if you need to take someone back, Just, just take care of it. If you can do it without any costs, yeah. That's preferable, you know? And then because that doesn't become part of the, the, the problem, right. And then and then just continue close follow up and usually, usually you can resolve most issues that way.
Right. If. And, and when things actually need to be fixed, then you can fix them, right? Now if someone has slipped through the cracks, right? And it's, it's just a difficult patient and you can't find what to fix, or you're having communication breakdowns then you, you definitely want to just have a comp, let everything kind of cool off, and then you definitely want to have a face-to-face conversation with that patient that that's your best bet.
And, and then at the end of the day, there's going to be one patient every, you know, five to 10 years that it doesn't matter what you do you're, you're not going to be able to satisfy, you know satisfy their needs. And if you come to that conclusion, you may, you may have to have an honest conversation about that too, you know, but that, that shouldn't, if you, if you're, if you're being cautious, you're doing what's best for the patient.
You're looking for red flags. You're not rushing in to do surgery. It shouldn't be more than one every 10 years, you know? But it's impossible for you if you just look at the numbers. It's impossible for you to avoid, avoid that in, you know, a restaurant is going to have a customer who's upset, you know it's impossible for you not to.
So, it's impossible for you to deal with a specialty where it is medicine, but there's nothing functionally wrong with the majority of the patients, right? So, nothing is actually wrong, right? They're making a choice. They're basically shopping and to think no one is going to have buyerβs remorse ever, right?
No one's going to. You know, I did like that tv, but maybe I could've got it cheaper. You know, I want to take it back, you know, is there anything wrong with tv, sir? No. But with plastic surgery, you can't take it back, you know, but those feelings are still inside human beings, right? And so, it's impossible to avoid a hiccup with a patient.
But you should be doing everything you can to avoid, you know avoid having problems or conflicts with patients. You should be looking for red flags. You should take your time and slow down, right? Be more concerned with doing a good job. Trying to find out if you can make patients happy instead of just trying to do procedures and build your practice.
Cause you'll build it up and it will, you'll backslide, you know, if you have problems with, with too many patients. And so, it, it seems like it's exciting and, and you know, you're in the little fever. You have the fever, you know, the practice growth fever, but you don't want to go faster than you can actually still be a doctor and take care of you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And, and in your case, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, I would think quality is better than quantity. Just to, just to keep things good because you know, who, who I think the worst patients the ones who develop their own websites to slam you. Oh yeah. They seem to always be the rhino patients, you know? And they go to great lengths to do that.
And I that's just, that's a funny patient. So, kudos to, I had a, a rhinoplasty at a much later age, and I didn't even know I needed one until one of my plastic surgeon friends said, you should really get your nose fixed. You don't need a facelift; you need a nose job. And I thought, oh, thank you, sir.
But I loved it. Like I loved it. It softened my look, but I was the easiest patient on the planet. I was like, Can I just get rid of this bump? Thank you. And we were done. Speaking of which, are you using computer imaging? Cause patients really like that? Jason S. Hamilton, MD, how does it relate to www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Not, Yeah, they do. I use it but I'm not using it to sell surgery.
Okay. Use what I'm saying. I'm using it to communicate. Just like you take a patient's picture and you're both looking at it together at the same time. Yep. You're also looking. The changes and the goals that the patient has together at the same time, so to speak. But I'm not trying to perfect anything on the computer screen, you know, and that's also a red flag, you know, if you show someone, if someone has a big Roman nose and, and you make it pretty straight, And they're like, It's really good, but maybe a millimeter more, no, half a millimeter.
No. Okay, that's perfect. Now I want to have the surgery. No one has that much control, you know, in, in a case. And that means they're not going to be, they're telling you I'm not going to be happy with a 99% improvement. Right. I'm only going to be happy with perfect. And we know perfect is not possible. So that's a red flag.
So, I'm actually using it to actually interview the patient as well. Right? And, and I, and I like it in that, that some people take the, the photos that I've morphed and they reor them, you know, and make the nose tiny and pinched. And I'm like, I'm glad you did that because that shows me that I'm not going to be able to deliver what you want.
I'm not going to do that. And, and we're not a good match. You know, we're just not a good match. And so, I like to use it that way. Some, some colleagues are using it to sell the surgery. You know, they, they make a perfect nose. They print it out, the patient's walking around with it like this, and they think that's what they're going to get.
And you, you, you're not a 3D printing, you know, robot. So, I would be cautious about using it to cell surgery. I would do a little less than you think you can actually deliver. Right? And, and you're using it to kind of interview the patient. From an aesthetic standpoint, you know, if you do something that looks really nice natural, and that you think you can achieve, the patient's completely unsatisfied with it, or they're like more, more and more than that, that's telling you that you, you, you may be cautious, you should be cautious about moving forward with that patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, so let's go on to the more fun stuff and positive, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, and that's marketing and you people have that big out. One of the reasons I wanted you on this podcast I talk about this, I blog about it, it all of it's called extreme targeting. And most surgeons are appalled at the thought of only having a certain target market or a certain procedure, right.
Or a certain thing that that catapults them to be different, you know? Yeah. And you just jumped right in completely with that. And as too, you even have black nose job.com URL. You have an email called Ethnic Plastic surgery@gmail.com. If you look at social. You are called African American rhinoplasty, ethnic rhinoplasty before, after septal perforation surgery, Dr. Jason Hamilton, but you have absolutely bought into extreme targeting in regards to www.BlackNoseJob.com. And just tell me what that was like and were you scared to death to do it, to be that targeted or you know, do you regret it or, or has it actually catapulted you to get out of the fray of everybody?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, I, I think I think what you alluded to I like the way you kind of categorized that like extreme, you know, focus, it's an extreme focus.
Yeah. I, I think it's catapulted me. It was always my interest anyway, but just kind of putting a stamp on it and saying, this is who I. And, and I'm okay with who I am and, and this is what I do anyway. Let me just put a stamp on it. I think that that's catapulted me in, in that submarket to heights that I probably wouldn't think were possible.
It's catapulted me over just a regular practice too. I'm not the, the numbers are busier than a busy surgeon, you know, in, in my mind. And I couldn't do most of, I don't think I can do much more and not pull my hair up, you know? But it's definitely been, been a positive force, but I'll tell you where it came from.
One in a very competitive market, right? Yes. And so, if you're just going to be another Botox injector, you know it's, it's just going to be a price war at that point, right? A lot of doctors love rhinoplasty, especially in Los Angeles, you know big seed. They love doing rhinoplasty. But I think the niche for me is that I've, I've always just as a student, a resident, and then, you know, practicing on my own I find I've found that specifically black patients weren't getting great results on rhinoplasty.
You know Michael Jackson, you know, being a beat the poster child. Yeah, yeah. Poster child for that. And so, and then, and this is something that I, I was passionate about and I feel I was doing a, a really good job at, and so I, I just said, I'm going to put my stamp on it. I, I have some marketing advantages and, and I'm going to use.
I am of African descent. I'm black, so that helps. I'm a facial plastic surgeon. I love rhinoplasty and I'm okay putting my stamp on it. If you look at the numbers there were, there were probably about let's just say 400,000 rhinoplasties last year in the us in 2020 in the us probably down from the normal numbers, but that it's still the number one cosmetic surgery right now.
Only about 5% of those are, are African American or Africans, or described as African. So that does not seem like a good marketing strategy, right? If 95% of the patients have rhinoplasties are going to be represented by, by a different ethnicity or race. And so however 5% of 400,000 is a lot of patience.
You know, that's more patience than I could do in my lifetime. And that's every year. You understand what I mean? So, so if you, if you can actually have the courage, focus on anything because there's more than enough patience for you, you, there's more patience than you could ever operate on in your entire life.
So, so, being kind of hyper, super extreme focused has worked very well for me because you get attention you get immediate recognition for that if you're doing a good job and taking care of your patients. And it's harder the entrance point for anyone else coming in. It's a little, it's a little more difficult.
You can't just jump in, you know, it doesn't come out of a box as I like to say to, to my staff and stuff. But wrestling, I can just open a box. Botox, they can just open a box. Cool sculpting. You just open the paddles, stick them on, turn on the sensor. But for you, if you're a surgeon, this is just my belief, if you're a surgeon, you have a unique set of skills.
If you have a particular area of interest, developed you know, repeatable, great results. You should jump out. You should jump out, you know especially in a big market, which sounds like the opposite of what you'd want to do. If I was in a small market, I probably would just stick with everything.
Cause there's not a lot of competition, you know? In, in a, in a middle size sound, there may only be a couple surgeons. They may be cordial to one another and they all do different things. You should probably keep the breath of your, your specialty. But if you, if you want to compete and you have a talent for something, I think it's okay to just focus on that now when you let everything else.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're going to see a nose dive that nobody can survive, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: They can't handle that. Right. You have to, you have to survive the phone not ringing. Right. You know, you have to survive the phone not ringing and, and your schedule going to you know, turning white basically, you know, like nothing's on the schedule, nothing's there.
You have to be willing to survive that. But then when you are building back up, it's, it's actually real, you know? It, it's I like to say if you just have a, a Botox practice you know, someone can set up shop across the street and get a, have discounts and you may lose, you know, percentage of those patients overnight.
If you're, if you're super specialized, you're probably going to be okay. You're going to weather a lot of storms and we've weathered a lot of storms. You know, I, I trained when I was training, it was during Katrina. You know maybe two years after I was done practicing the market crashed. You know even doctors weren't referring patients because no one had insurance or so they were holding onto their patients as long as they could.
I'm in la plastic surgeons aren't going to refer patients to, you know. And then and then I've been through the pandemic. I, I've had a lot of, lot, I started out in the recession, so that kind of made me aware that things can change in your practice, you know, and, and you want to have good stability.
You want to build in something that can weather the storm. And I think extreme, you know, specialization is one of those things, you know, if people need those services. They, they will find you. And, and I'm diversified. I'm not just doing cosmetics. So, the reconstructive part of my practice you, you, if you, if you fracture your orbit, you know, you're not going to be able to just walk around with that until you conveniently ready to take care of it.
So, I think all of those things are like, people let trauma, they let they let the reconstruction kind of slide away from their practice, where I think it's a great a great part of, you know, plastic surgery. One of the most common. Perform procedures for all plastic surgeons, right? It almost trumps everything else.
Is, is reconstructive, like doing skin cancer work? You know there's, there's a lot of work there for, for surgeons and, and if you give it up, you're basically giving up your diversity. You know, hey, you're not diversifying your practice, but, but when things are going well, there's a temptation to do that.
I'm just really lucky that when I came out, things were going bad for everybody, you know? So, if you, if you grew up in the Great Depression, you keep cans of peas, you know, in basement you know, just in case.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But back to extreme targeting, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, that allows you to charge an awful lot more, which I hope you are, because you have put all your eggs in this particular basket or a lot of your eggs, and the patient now is be, is being attracted to your expert status.
Yes, your celebrity status, like you're hanging with the big boys, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com. Now at that you're also in Beverly Hills, so that hasn't hurt, but you've gotten some really killer PR from this. Yeah. You were on the doctors. The way is the doctors, is it kind of like a pay to play thing or some you had pay somebody to do something to get on these shows, right?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: No. Just from our branding and experience. Yeah. We were contacted by the show to see if we could help, you know, a particular patient. At least in our case. That's how it's always gone. We were on Dr. Pimple Popper, you know, recently, and again, you know, she contacted us just from my reputation to help her with, you know, a case.
So that's how it's gone for us. And, and what I'm saying is, that's, that's better than having to necessarily have a PR person if, if you're just known as Okay. A lot of, a lot of practices can do this, but when you have a real. This is where you go, we're those guys, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, and that's what, what everyone wants.
Like when, when you have a patient who wants something like a facelift, who do you go to? You want your name to pop up. And that doesn't happen by accident. You have to focus on that and write about it and speak about it and do a lot of it and have a lot of people talking about it. How about the celebrity status you have though, because you are attracting can you just tell one story about the that football player?
I don't know anything about football, but Sta Johnson Yeah. Did that kind of put you on the map and change your career a bit to help you, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, I think so because you know, everyone's aware of like orthopedic surgeons, right? Dealing with some shoulder injury on a football player, but there probably has never been an E N T or a facial plastics doctor that's going to be on ESPN, you know?
And so, the Stefan Johnson had dropped, you know, 275-pound weight on his neck basically crushing his, his larynx and his ability to breathe. And we got the call to come to, to come help out and basically ended up saving his life and his career because he was able to get back out on the football field.
And that story through ESPN running, you know, almost every hour during the Christmas holiday, you know? Oh my God. We got a lot of notoriety wherever I. It, we were traveling to New York once, and it was on the jumbotron, you know, big screen in New York, Times Square, you know, so, so the, the, that definitely catapulted us and made people aware that we do also take care of athletes, which, you know, no one thinks that e t doctor or facial plastic, so you're thinking orthopedics.
But these guys break their nose, boxers, break their jaws. And it just kind of put us on the map for that. And then we started getting contacted by athletes and sports teams and to take care of patients. And it really catapulted that part of my practice. And that, that also builds, builds credibility, you know?
Yep. And then that allows you to build other parts of your practice. So, we're going to stick with our plan. Seems to be working, and that's a great plan. It, it's a slower, more methodical, meticulous road, but it pays dividends for a longer period of time, I think.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, what's driving you, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,? I like to talk about mindset, like how did you get to thinking like this?
It doesn't sound like you grew up with medicine, so that kind of came out of left field, but do you have a drive to help people? Ego gratification? Like what, what, like what's driving you?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Basically, my drive is initially I wanted to get into medicine. Because I wanted to be able to take care of myself and my family.
Like you know, coming from Jamaica we don't have access to this level of healthcare. When my grandmother, for example, had surgery, we had to buy the implant and take it, you know, to the doctor and hand it to them., you have to bring food to the hospital and you have to feed your family member, bathe them, and do all, you have to change the bedding.
You're basically nursing and, and that you know, children process things differently. That seems a little scary to me., you know? And, and my fear was being a position where I can help my family or myself, you know? So that was my initial interest in saying, hey, I think medicine would be a good choice because you, you can help your family, you know, you can help, you can help people, and, and, and you don't have to, you know, live in fear.
And so that, that was one of my drivers to get into medicine and just being. Individually passionate about being excellent at something. That's, that's really what I wanted to be excellent at something. And I think we all do we all have those dreams but we may not know how to do it. And I, I wanted to feel like I could grow in medicine, in an area where I could find an expertise and kind of really focus on that.
And that's, that's really my drive. Rhinoplasty gives you that you'll never perfect it. You'll never perfect it. You know, you're really practicing medicine in the sense that you, you can become as, as good as you are. And even when you get to the, the stage where maybe even patients don't know what you're talking about, where you're finding critiques on yourself but you're finding them, you're finding those critiques, right?
And you want to make them better. And, and the further you go in your career, and you follow your patients, you get to see those long-term results. You get to see 10-year results, 15-year results, and, and then you think back and you're like, I'm not going to do that again. I'm going to, I'm going to change what I do, and then I want to see how that turns out in 10 years.
So, it's, it's very motivating and it's inspiring and it's you're kind of like a tortured artist in that sense. Ok. Cause you're, you're, you're picking yourself apart and it keeps you humble. So, I, there's no ego involved in it. It actually keeps you humble because you'll never perfect it. And, and agreeing to sign up for that challenge right.
Is very humbling. And, and it keeps the passion going for myself, you know, for myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the payoff's been fantastic, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,. You have, you just have a lovely practice, lovely demeanor, lovely reputation great patients. I think you did Cardi B recently, or no? Or no. There's, oh my God, you just, you have a lot of good things going on there and you, when you mentioned your dog, was it the dog? The therapy dog.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Oh yeah. Yeah, we have a well I have my own dog, but we, we do have a therapy dog that's part of the practice, you know Laney and that, that kind of grew out of Covid and it's called Pause for Patients. It's part of our foundation. And Elany will go to different schools and help.
Children with maybe learning disabilities and the children will read to her. And just get to kind of have some comfort or the excitement. Who doesn't love a dog? You know, it was really big during Covid because people were isolated. So, Laney was even doing video, you know, talks with kidβs classrooms and so it's been really popular.
And it's, you know, therapy dogs are well known. Most people probably don't have one as part of their practice, but you know, it's just, it's, it's very unique and We're excited about her participation and she, she's been able to, you know, Laney has been able to raise funds for us to do medical missions in other countries and health children and, you know, adults that have you know, maybe cancer diagnoses or tumors or deformities that they could never have taken care of because of resources in their country.
And that's something I'm passionate about too, and that keeps me really humble because I have a good balance. I'm in Beverly Hills plastic surgery. And then and then I'm going to third world countries and seeing what real, you know, poverty or lack of hope looks like. And it really balances, balances things out for me.
My kids get to see me do that and I've brought my children with me on these trips, and so they get to see what the world looks like outside of our bubble. And, and I think that's important too, and I recommend that to anyone is to you definitely. You definitely want to give back and you definitely want to see what the world looks like and what your gift is as a physician and what you can do outside of just your practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Huh. Excellent words of wisdom, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, I think. We'll, we'll leave it at that. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I'll be watching you grow, although you probably don't need any more growth. You're doing just fine. But everybody if you did want to get ahold of Dr. Hamilton, you could go to www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Yeah. And then it'll viral off onto different places. But he's doing a heck of a job, so I would take a look at that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on www.BlackNoseJob.com with Jason S. Hamilton, MD.
A big thanks to Dr. Jason S. Hamilton for sharing his successes related to www.BlackNoseJob.com.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βwww.BlackNoseJob.com β with Jason S. Hamilton, MD."
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#www.blacknosejob.com #blacknosejob #blacknose #drjasonshamilton #drhamilton #jasonshamiltonmd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and www.BlackNoseJob.com with Jason S. Hamilton, MD.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "www.BlackNoseJob.com β with Jason S. Hamilton, MD."
I am a huge fan of specializing. Becoming an expert in something, rather than a generalist in lots of different things, has its advantagesβ¦.
- You have more focus.
- You get really good at one thing.
- You stand above the competition.
- Youβre able to charge more.
Frankly, thatβs how I grew my own business. I picked a very specific market (cosmetic surgeons) to help grow their practices.
Iβm pretty sure you wouldnβt be following me if I was the self-proclaimed marketing guru to dentists and realtors and lawyersβ¦.you get the picture.
So, in this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interviewed someone who took this strategy to heart and really went for it.
Itβs Jason Hamilton, MD, facial plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills.
Dr. Hamilton is the director of facial plastic surgery at the Osborne Head and Neck Institute based at Cedar-Sinai Medical Towers.
He specializes in primary and revision African American rhinoplasty, while pioneering new methods designed specifically for the black nose.
He even owns the URL www.BlackNoseJob.com.
We talked about where he got the courage to specialize and what happened when he did (hint: huge drop in business, then came back stronger).
Visit Dr Hamilton's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
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Transcript:
www.BlackNoseJob.com β with Jason S. Hamilton, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and www.BlackNoseJob.com with Jason S. Hamilton, MD. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's guest is very special, it's Jason S. Hamilton, MD, who will discuss with us about www.BlackNoseJob.com.
He's a director of facial plastic surgery at the Osborne Head & Neck Institute based at Cedar-Sinai Medical Towers in Beverly Hills. Now, Dr. Hamilton attended Duke University and did a fellowship through the AAFPRS. He's also held several teaching appointments as an attending surgeon and clinical faculty member in the department of surgery at Cedar-Sinai, where he teaches facial plastic and reconstructive surgery.
Now, he's also lectured internationally and he is published over 54 peer reviewed scientific articles and book chapters, and Dr. Hamilton specializes in primary and revision African American rhinoplasty, while pioneering new methods designed specifically for the black nose. Now, his goal is to give his patients a beautiful nose that will always look natural throughout their entire life.
That's no easy feat for Jason S. Hamilton and his www.BlackNoseJob.com. Now, he's been honored with numerous awards and is considered one of the top African American rhinoplasty surgeons in the country and probably the world. Now, he's an academic mentor to high school students. He goes on missions he gives back by working with several humanitarian organizations such as Face to Face, the National Domestic Violence Program, and Faces of Honor.
Dr. Hamilton, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It is a pleasure to have you.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Thank you, and thanks for that great introduction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, there was a lot to go through with how you, Jason S. Hamilton, MD and your www.BlackNoseJob.com. I mean, I had been researching you and I thought, Dear Lord, this guy's been around. And you look a lot younger for all of your achievements, but congratulations for that.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah. Well, you know, we're, we're definitely in the right business. Keep looking younger.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right, Jason S. Hamilton, MD. So, you have to start me out with, how did you say, were you a little boy saying, I want to be a facial plastic surgeon and create www.BlackNoseJob.com, or how do you get.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, so initially I I'm originally from Jamaica. That's where I was born.
So, we immigrated to Florida. And I had an interest in science and I like kids, you know, that those were my interests. So, I thought I wanted to be a pediatrician. No one in my family's in medicine. And so, when I got to medical school, you know, you get introduced to the different specialties.
So, my passion very quickly was anatomy, and I loved the head and neck area. And I started spending time kind of playing hook in the days because our lectures were recorded. So, I, I would listen to them. And in the day, I would go hang out with the surgeons in the hospital and try to figure out what I want to do with my life.
And so, hanging out and spending time with some of the reconstructive head and neck surgeons where they were rebuilding jaw bones, rebuilding tongues pharynx cheeks doing trauma surgery. That's where I really got my passion and interest in becoming a facial plastic surgeon. I didn't know that.
You would go through e n T to, to get to that point. So that was a surprise. But e NT is where you learn about all the anatomy of the head and neck and obviously all of the cosmetic and plastic surgery procedures. So, I really got passionate about in my ENT training about sticking with plastics and I was really, really interested in the reconstructive side of things.
I had no cosmetic interests whatsoever. I. Thinking about being a quote unquote plastic surgeon. I only wanted to deal with reconstruction, and then that kind of morphed as time went by. Patients who I had done some reconstructive procedures would come back and ask for cosmetic procedures.
They in turn would bring family members who I would accept as patients because it was a direct referral. And then, you know, I became passionate about that. And then things just kind of took a natural course from.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Jason S. Hamilton, MD, were you ever in solo practice on your way to figuring out www.BlackNoseJob.com, or did you go straight from the hospital and then join Osborne Head and Neck?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: How did that transition happen? Yeah. I was never in a solo practice. I think our practice is kind of a hybrid, mm-hmm. because we, we published a lot. We have a foundation that does mission work, you know, throughout the world. We are involved with training of residents and even mentoring college and high school students.
So, when I. Was training in my residency. That's where I actually met Dr. Osborne. He was a chief and then our attending. And I was a first-year general surgery resident coming into the program. That's where we met and we kind of gained a lot of respect for one another. We started writing papers and presenting at that time.
And then when I was going to graduate and start my fellow. He was starting out here at Cedar Sinai, and at that time he was the, the first director of Head and neck cancer at Cedar Sinai. And so, when I was going to graduate, he, he kind of pulled me to the side and he was like, I know, I know you're going to hear a lot of stuff, but I think we should work together.
Right? And, and I kind said, hey, you're an oncologist, how are we going to work together? It's never going to work. And, and we basically came to the conclusion that the most important thing, and I think it's important for, for all docs or anyone business, is that if you have someone who is dedicated, enthusiastic, hardworking, intelligent...
And, and your friends then you can find common grounds to build something up, you know? And that might not be worth letting go to work with someone who just happens to be in your specialty, but you don't have anything in common, you know? So, so we just made a decision that we're going to figure out how we're going to work together, right?
And I, we started doing that while I was a fellow. We started building websites figuring out how we were going to kind of take the world by storm, so to speak. And then as soon as I graduated, I came here and I've been here ever since.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No kidding, Jason S. Hamilton, MD. You know when I looked at your website, I was, whoever did your branding was kind of magnificent because it looks very hospital-accredited and benefits from www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Like I, I thought, Jason S. Hamilton, MD, it was a hospital because of the way you have done it. And it wasn't the, your usual, like there are no social media logos. It was, it's very educational, straightforward serious. You know, you guys are not clowning around on this thing. And I thought, how interesting, because was that the point to look and also calling yourself institute, which can help with www.BlackNoseJob.com.
But was that the point to not be the typical solo practice going after all the cosmetic? You don't, you wanted to be a teaching institute? Yes. Training
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: was that, yeah. You hit the nail right on the head. So just coming out and getting started we figured that if we just do what everybody else does, right,
Yes. They're going to be two problems. One, we're in a big market, so we're not in a smaller mid-size city. We're in Los Angeles, you know, which is equivalent to New York or Dallas or Miami. So, we're in a big. Everyone is already doing what you're thinking about doing very well, right? And that's why you have an interest in being there because that's where the consumers are.
So, we quickly identified just from our training again. That we had interest and talent in areas that our colleagues probably didn't have a big interest in, you know, or shied away from because the surgeries took a long time or at the time they didn't reimburse well or They couldn't figure out how to integrate it into their practice.
But we started in that place. We said, we're not going after anything, or we're not going to take any interest in things that everybody's doing. Right. And so that's a slow process, right? But it has a future, you know, in our minds it has a future. And that's, that's, that's why our branding and our logo we wear white coats, you know, preferentially, we wear white coats.
We don't wear suits. We, we have a, a kind of clinical looking office, like a hospital. We don't have marble on the floors. Because that's not what we're, we're conveying. And that's not what we're selling and that's not what we're giving patients. What we're trying to convey is that we're kind of super specialists.
We, we have a passion for what we do. If you are in need of our services, we're going to approach this at the highest level. And you can be assured that we have training, we have research background, and that you're going to be getting delivered the highest-level product. And that's our focus. So, I'm glad to see that's your, your impression of what our branding is and because that's exactly what we want it to be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,, I think it's working for you because if I'm not mistaken, you have eight surgeons now at this point. Yeah, yeah. Where, where are you going with this? And you're probably doing a lot of reconstructive as well as cosmetic or how is that to up in your practice?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: So, one of the things is that everyone coming into the practice is pretty much doing something different, you know?
And so, for myself, just organically I probably work with my partner doing reconstruction on all his cases. Oh. And then in my, in my in my practice, I'm mostly focused on rhinoplasty and some reconstructive things with the nose, like fixing supple perforations. So that's one of my big things.
And then then the side, the side interest just because I love sports and we've actually treated a lot of athletes like Stephan Johnson. Yeah. We're going to talk about that next. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so that, that's kind of my passion. So, I, I, we have the professional sports athletes that take care of myself.
Then we do the reconstructive surgery, and then the rest has been kind of whittled down in focus to mostly rhinoplasty and reconstructive nasal surgery. And, and specifically for the, the African, you know, descent population or ethnic rhino.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So back to running a practice, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,, it's difficult enough for two surgeons to make a decision and have the same vision.
So, kudos to, you know, Hamilton and Osborne. Good job there. But when you bring on a bunch of others, how difficult is it for you to keep that brand intact? Make sure everyone has the same values, to have the same vision? Is that, is it, does it get more difficult as you add more surgeons?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I think actually it's the opposite.
Oh, right. So, it actually has been easier as we've added more surgeons because we look more at the brand, you know, as, as we've become larger. Right. So, so what I mean by that is when it was just, when it's the two of us we have an. We have an idea. When there's six of us, we have a brand, you know, and this is kind of the way, these are the jerseys that, you know, the Rams wear, you know, yeah.
This is the locker room. These are the shoes we wear. We run this kind of offense and it's easy to recruit and you know bring people in when you're very organized. And so, we focus on being organized sticking to the brand, not deviating from that. And then, so when you're bringing in new people, it just seems like this is how the organization is.
So, I liken it to, if you join the university of, you know, XYZ you wouldn't think that you could change your badge to whatever you wanted. I'm going to park where I want to park. No, they're going to tell you where you're going to park. These are the coats you wear; these are the color scrubs. You're not allowed to wear, you know, jackets with hoodies.
There's all the rules. You're going to get a flu vaccine or have a good reason. And so actually the, the, the more people we've added, the more solid the branding has been and easier it has been to get conformity. And then when we were interviewing people, you're, you're saying this is what we're looking for this is what we're all doing.
Are you interested in that? You know, and, and, and some people are not because as we were, you know, speaking before which we'll, we'll talk about. Everyone doesn't want to super focus or pick something that, that they want to go after. Cause it's scary. It, it's scary to just say, I'm going to focus on like highlight surgery or osis surgery.
Because you, you really have to have an acumen for it to, to build that practice and, and kind of just let everything else go to the wayside. And that can be a scary.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how difficult has it been getting staff, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,? I know all we're talking about in today, this year, this year we're, we're, we're still having major staff challenges.
Not just finding them, but finding the right people who have the right, I don't know, discipline, whatever. Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,, are you also finding that, or has your branding done so well that you're attracting really key patients?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I think we you know, knock wood we were extremely lucky because at the timing of Covid, which I think is where this great resignation and yeah.
I call it the great reconsideration as well. People are thinking about their lives and now they want to live it, right? Yeah. And, and work is a big part of that. I think that we had had some, I wouldn't call them lifers, but we had, we had a, a critical number of people who had been here for at least 10 years already, right?
So, 90% of the people that were here when Covid hit had been here for 10 years, you know? So, we didn't have a lot of turnover. And everyone is still here, so I don't, we, we didn't feel that, those effects of having to get new people and having staffing issues, et cetera because it pretty much held our core group.
Some people You know, decided to do different things you know, for various reasons. Like, well, I know you guys are still open. I don't want to come into contact with Covid patients. So that's legitimate, you know, But I think going forward, I think staffing as we continue to expand or grow, I think staffing will be an issue.
You know, I think that's something that's, that's hard to resolve for most practices. However, I think we've all embraced technology just like how we're talking right now. You know? Technology is really allowing you to have close communications with your patients that you, you, it wasn't accepted or as easy, you know, as before.
And I think with technology, you can kind of automate some things and then kind of focus on getting great staff, you know? So instead of two good staff members that you add, you can add a great or an exceptional one, and technology can help that member. Do their job and facilitate communicating with patients?
In my opinion, that's my for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, one thing I have noticed with surgeons as they find the riches in the niches, they do, if given the choice, would rather hide out in the OR and never deal with staff or processes or KPIs or SOPs, they don't know what that is. They don't want to know what that is. Yeah. But in your practice, just the feel I get after doing a lot of research on you it feels like you guys just have this under control.
It feels you're very mellow. I love that. Your website's very organized. You just, it just feels very organized as you said. Do you have a management team behind the scenes that's running all this and making this run like a, I'm always trying to help practices run a smooth, like a Swiss Army knife, you know, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Yeah. Like who, who's, who's in the back end?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Well, most, most of it I would say to the credit is my partner, Dr. Osborne. He's very hands on and he's, I would say in a, in a business sense, he's slow to hire. Right. And, and quick to, to fire, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's what they always say, but we don't do it that way, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah. Most people don't do it that way. And so, it's really hard for you to get in here if not impossible. Right. And. And so it, it attracts people who have similar mindsets and are trying to kind of build a career and, and not just, you know, jump from job to job and people grow while they're here.
So, I think that's very attractive. So, he does have a good handle on it. And then, Behind the scenes. We also have great office manager who's been with us since the beginning. And we have good business and, and patient coordinators really keep the three key positions. So, so office management, business, and patient coordination, those, those individuals have been with us for 15 years plus.
And so that has probably been the key to, to our success. I would love to hide in the or under blanket. Anytime I could. But Dr. Osborne and those key people have really made all of our lives, including their own lives better just by being so solid and present in the practice. So yeah, I think that's really important.
Turnover. Turnover can, can kill a great practice, you know? And so, if you can hold on to great staff and make people feel like they can grow in your organization, then, then it, it really takes stress.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it really is the secret, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com. The consistency, and the continuity of having staff that like working together and know how you can just feel it in an office.
You can feel how it's all, it's all working like clockwork. A few hiccups here and there, but that overall, when you're, when you're on your game, you know, when everyone's on their game and they know their role, oh, there's nothing more beautiful than that. Yeah. So, I want to ask you technically some of these questions.
What percentage of your practice is rhino versus face and neck cosmetic surgery, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I would say 99% is Rhino. 99%?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Of those rhinos, how many are cosmetic versus reconstructive, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I would say 75% cosmetic and 25% reconstructive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then how many rhinos per year are you doing that adds up, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: I would say if I edited up, so about five, about 250,
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's what I was going to say, right around two 50 or three.
Yeah. How many revision rhinos could you have picked a more difficult procedure? You, you know, you're, most surgeons are very risk averse. You apparently came from another pool. I mean, you, you can't do anything more risky doing rhinos, then doing rhinos that are great for a lifetime. Cause you know, they're going to come back to haunt you, what, five or 10 years later at the time.
So, I'm sorry, I had to go off on that. What you to pick rhinoplasty of all, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: But I agree with you about those elements that it, it is a tough population. It's a tough surgery. A lot of plastic surgeons consider it one of the toughest surgeries because it's a singular unit, right? So, you have two eyes, you can be distracted left and right but the nose is right in the center.
But it's just the challenge, you know? It's very interesting. It does not become mundane. Everyone's nose is different. It's a combination of mom and dad to, to a different percentages. And so, and you're creating a new, a unique product for each patient. It never gets boring. And so that's, that's the, the surgical challenge, right?
Then there's also the challenge of trying to actually help the patient, right? I learned very early that the results don't really matter, right? Because everyone's nose looks different, so the results don't matter as much. The results that the patient is looking for. Yeah. Right. So, we can all think it looks great.
Patient may have some small complaints about asymmetries that, that you may not even see that they really want to be addressed and, and they have a difficult time being happy with anything that you deliver to them or any surgeon delivers to them. And then you have patients who are looking for minor.
Where you as a surgeon are like, no, we can fix all of these things., right? Yeah. And they're like, no, I just want this little bump that I never had before. You know, I got hit with the baseball. I just want you to take that down and I'll be happy. And so, the, the outcome is, is in the eye of the patient for sure.
It's not in your eye. And that is actually what's brought more satisfaction to my practice is not worrying about the surgery as much, which I've worried about to, to, to no end. It's about worrying about can I make this patient happy and if I can't, it doesn't matter what it looks like, right? If it's the best nose on the base of the earth, if I can't make them happy with that nose, then they're not ready for surgery.
And that, that's been the biggest thing that's helped me. And if they can be happy with, with a nose that I can deliver or, or even any surgeon could deliver, then they may be at that time a good candidate to have a revision surgery or a primary surgery. And that's, that's really been the key is, is, is as you're learning, you're going to, you don't know how to take Donna Hump.
You don't know how to get the tip right. You don't, so you are concerned about that as you should be. Yeah. But I'm telling you equally or, or that what trumps that is figuring out should I operate on this patient? You know? And when you're getting started, you won't operate on everyone because you don't have any patience.
You know? So that's what gets you in trouble, I think. But if you can resist that urge to, to just operate and really focus on is this a good candidate? And it can be very reward and then, if you're, if you're picking good candidates, then it's the best surgery. So, most satisfying, you can, you can operate on patients from 16, 17 in, in female 17, 18, 19, and males until they're, you know, I have seven-year-old patients that break their nose.
So, you have a wider range of feasible patients that you can operate on. Right. Who are healthy. Facelifts are older. Population fillers are, I mean, some people are getting fillers very young now, but fillers fat transfer, a blepharoplasty, that's an older population. So, it's actually a wider market, you know, and, and that's also attractive from a business standpoint.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But getting back to the patient, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, this, now, you had so much experience, you probably don't remember, but were you trying to like to, to get into the emotional mindset of a patient is difficult at best? Yeah, so oftentimes I've asked the surgeon, you know, somebody who's been sued, I said, what did you learn from that?
He said that I should have trusted my gut. I knew something was wrong. I knew I thought I could handle. And I couldn't, or it came from left field. Like I don't know what happened. I don't know why this went so sideways. So, are there any pearls there that you learned? Do you have them take a test? Do you have them to go to a psychiatrist?
Are there any telltale signs to watch out for, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, that now you flag immediately and go, uh oh, this isn't going to work out?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, so I think, I think it's a little bit of each. So, one, your gut, if you don't feel good, if it's not a good you are not obligated to do the surgery because someone booked a consultation and you just have to be okay with that.
So, feelings will be hurt. You may have to part ways. You do it kindly professionally and give them back their consultation fee and give them back their feet. Yeah. And, and then just be clean. You give them back their feet and it's clean. Right? No harm to foul. So that's just the gut feeling. The second thing is the, that are, that are red flags are.
Speed. Right. Someone who wants a rhinoplasty they've had this nose their entire life, but they for some reason need to have surgery within three weeks or five days or a month, or it has to get done. Because my birthday's coming up and I've been waiting my whole life for that. That speed is going to put the patient in position where they're not processing all the steps that are coming with specifically rhinoplasty.
Rhinoplasty is getting a graduate or a master's degree. It's a two-year process. Right. You're not going to be healed in a week. Right. And so, the, the speed, the rushing, no, I have to get in now. I'm in town, it just flew in. Yeah. And then I want to have the surgery before I fly out on my... That those are red flags.
That's, that's where problems are going to come from. It's just, just speed, right? And then and then patients who aren't really willing to kind of go through the process and not following directions before you even do the surgery, you know? If you say, can you submit your operating reports from your, your other case, it's been four months.
They, they never get them in. They come in for surgery and say, oh, I just couldn't I don't know what's going on. They, they can't get pictures from before their surgery. That's a red flag. Like you don't have any pictures from before. You know? That can be a red flag for you. Just having difficulty getting information.
They, they don't get their h and p, they're, they're having problems getting labs. All of those things are potentially little. Points where you can overlook it as just, you know, something minor. But those things are going to happen after the surgery as well, and then it becomes a big problem, you know?
So, I think your gut inpatients, you know, and then the patients that are not following your protocol that you set, or they want to modify your protocol. No, I want my sutures out in, in five days, you know, and you always do it in seven. I want my cast off the third day because I need to travel and that's not going to be good for me.
They're trying to modify everything that you're doing. Then that's going to continue after the surgery. So, some, when, when you look back, like, like how you asked your other clients, when you look back, there are red flags the whole time, you know, it didn't, it didn't really come out of left field. There are red flags now.
Sometimes a red flag may pop up. Right the day before surgery or the morning of surgery, and, and you may not have the courage to, to, you know, call it quits at that point, but, but you, but you should, you know, I've, I've canceled someone on the gurney rolling into the OR because they've changed what they, they keep changing what they want.
Oh, I want to take, no, I don't want to take it down. No, I want to leave that. No, I don't want to do it. I'm like, you're not. You know, and I'm very polite. I just say it's probably not a good time right now, you know? And the most patient, every time I've done that, those patients specifically have turned out to be like the best patients.
Oh, nice. Right? Because, because they, they will go back and thank you and say, I, I wasn't happy about things, but then I processed what happened, and I think you were right. I wasn't actually ready. Now I have clarity about what I want to achieve. I appreciate you doing that. And then you turn out to, you have a great relationship.
So even someone who seems like there are, there are potentially you know, a difficult patient for themselves or for you can turn. A good patient, they may need to say psychiatrist, they might need a therapist. You know I had a aha moment walking my dog one day. Right. And you know, we, we are all trained.
And you've probably advised, and you just mentioned it or alluded to it, like, how do you avoid difficult patients? How do you avoid patients that maybe have body dysmorphia that you, you just not going to be able to help them with a knife? Right. That's not the problem. You're not going to be able to help them with a knife or a laser or a procedure.
There are other things that they need to work on before they consider doing that. And so, these are the things you need to do. What are the red flags asked Dr. Other doctors what the red flags and, and I, my aha moment was, no, that's actually not the right thing to do. When someone comes in and we do their labs and they, they look like they're a diabetic.
We all. Stop and we send them to the endocrinologist. We don't try to figure it out, right? We don't, that's not what we do. We're not the expert. There's a whole specialty for that, right? If someone comes in and I've had that and their HCG is positive, like they're pregnant the week up, we stop. We send them to the OB/Gyn.
We said, figure out what's going on. Congratulations. We'll see you when you, when you're, when you're ready to have surgery. We don't try to handle it, you know? If someone's thyroid is high, you know, preoperatively, we send them to the endocrinologist. Again, if someone has a blood dysplasia, their, their coags are off.
We don't try to figure it out. We send them to the hematologist, they get it worked up and, and then they come back. If, if they have tachycardia, send them to cardiologists, but if they're. Or they've had too many surgeries, or you're not sure that their goals can be met. We try to figure it out and that's not what we should do.
We should send them to a therapist or a psychiatrist. Right. That was kind of my aha moment. So, I don't try to figure it out. I'm, I'm not trying to manage anyone's Body dysmorphia of myself just because I'm a plastic surgeon. That's something that needs to be managed by a therapist or a psychiatrist.
And, and maybe they can have treatment just like people may have short times where they're depressed. But maybe 50% of patients with true body dysmorphia can have procedures with therapy and, and, and setting the standard about what we're going to do. We're going to do one surgery, you know, we're not going to go back and keep doing things and adjusting.
And, and I think that can be very helpful for practice. So, you shouldn't try to figure out how to manage you know, difficult patients. Before if you sense it, you can ask them, Hey I'm not sure that you're, you're. Confident about what procedure goals you want to reach. And, and I think that I would like you to see our therapist or our counselor, you know to kind of help you manage those and make sure that we're communicating effectively and that we, we.
At absolute minimum, we want to meet your goals. But we'd like to exceed them if the patient's response is right, I'm offended. Absolutely not. Then the, you probably avoided something, right? If their response is okay, then that's probably a good patient, even if they don't need it, right? Or, or they just need one session.
You're probably going to avoid some difficult patients like that. So, so you can use that to kind of you know, check, test the water, so to speak. If you, if you re, I've had patients who have cardiac issues and I'm like, I think I need you to see a cardiologist and, and they don't want to do it, and it's no problem.
We're not doing surgery like we don't even think anything of it. But if it's so. With mental disease or, or something where someone has body dysmorphia, we feel a little bad internally about sending them away. Right. But we shouldn't, you know, we actually should help them and, and get them the right services they, they need just like we would with a diabetic or, you know a thyroid patient or anyone else that's preoperatively having surgery work up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have I know words matter, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com. I don't know if you can do this, but maybe call them a cosmetic coach instead of a psychiatrist. Just not to offend people because especially women are really funny about being labeled certain things. Yeah. Especially everybody is probably but I have noticed just being in this industry as long as I have if you a, a woman, several women will not use the word facelift.
They can't say it. They'll say I just need a little something. You know, something, something down here. You're like... Yeah. They cannot say facelift. And I think how interesting. So anyway, so then you try to figure out other words to say that's more comfortable for them anyway. So, having said all of that, what do you do?
You have to have tips for the unhappy patient, the one that you have had, they've had surgery, you think they have a fantastic result, or maybe you don't, I mean, maybe it wasn't your best work, but any tips for how to make them happy because that can go down this long road of stuff. Jason S. Hamilton, MD, how does it relate to www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Well, I think one, you want to be responsive, you know, you want to respond to their complaints or their desires to follow up with you or show you what's going on.
If, if they're, if the patient's talking to you, then you still have the patient, right? So, you should avoid middle men, right, or middle person, right? Don't put someone in between you and the patient. You should be talking to the patient yourself. That, that decreases their angst. If someone has a problem, they don't want to feel like they can't get to their doctor, right?
If you can bring them in, in person or look at them face to face, the video is better than a phone call, right? And then have them point out in detail It's bothering them. If a, if the concern is really just a matter of time, you know, let's see how things pan out, then you just keep close.
Follow up with them. If it's something that you need to fix or you feel like, Yeah, I could've done that better, you just need to tell them, we need to fix that right away, you know, no hesitation. And then work. Now, you know, many surgeons may have a difficult situation as far as getting people back to the operating room or getting things taken care of.
I'm lucky that we can just take patients back to surgery pretty easily. But if you need to take someone back, Just, just take care of it. If you can do it without any costs, yeah. That's preferable, you know? And then because that doesn't become part of the, the, the problem, right. And then and then just continue close follow up and usually, usually you can resolve most issues that way.
Right. If. And, and when things actually need to be fixed, then you can fix them, right? Now if someone has slipped through the cracks, right? And it's, it's just a difficult patient and you can't find what to fix, or you're having communication breakdowns then you, you definitely want to just have a comp, let everything kind of cool off, and then you definitely want to have a face-to-face conversation with that patient that that's your best bet.
And, and then at the end of the day, there's going to be one patient every, you know, five to 10 years that it doesn't matter what you do you're, you're not going to be able to satisfy, you know satisfy their needs. And if you come to that conclusion, you may, you may have to have an honest conversation about that too, you know, but that, that shouldn't, if you, if you're, if you're being cautious, you're doing what's best for the patient.
You're looking for red flags. You're not rushing in to do surgery. It shouldn't be more than one every 10 years, you know? But it's impossible for you if you just look at the numbers. It's impossible for you to avoid, avoid that in, you know, a restaurant is going to have a customer who's upset, you know it's impossible for you not to.
So, it's impossible for you to deal with a specialty where it is medicine, but there's nothing functionally wrong with the majority of the patients, right? So, nothing is actually wrong, right? They're making a choice. They're basically shopping and to think no one is going to have buyerβs remorse ever, right?
No one's going to. You know, I did like that tv, but maybe I could've got it cheaper. You know, I want to take it back, you know, is there anything wrong with tv, sir? No. But with plastic surgery, you can't take it back, you know, but those feelings are still inside human beings, right? And so, it's impossible to avoid a hiccup with a patient.
But you should be doing everything you can to avoid, you know avoid having problems or conflicts with patients. You should be looking for red flags. You should take your time and slow down, right? Be more concerned with doing a good job. Trying to find out if you can make patients happy instead of just trying to do procedures and build your practice.
Cause you'll build it up and it will, you'll backslide, you know, if you have problems with, with too many patients. And so, it, it seems like it's exciting and, and you know, you're in the little fever. You have the fever, you know, the practice growth fever, but you don't want to go faster than you can actually still be a doctor and take care of you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And, and in your case, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, I would think quality is better than quantity. Just to, just to keep things good because you know, who, who I think the worst patients the ones who develop their own websites to slam you. Oh yeah. They seem to always be the rhino patients, you know? And they go to great lengths to do that.
And I that's just, that's a funny patient. So, kudos to, I had a, a rhinoplasty at a much later age, and I didn't even know I needed one until one of my plastic surgeon friends said, you should really get your nose fixed. You don't need a facelift; you need a nose job. And I thought, oh, thank you, sir.
But I loved it. Like I loved it. It softened my look, but I was the easiest patient on the planet. I was like, Can I just get rid of this bump? Thank you. And we were done. Speaking of which, are you using computer imaging? Cause patients really like that? Jason S. Hamilton, MD, how does it relate to www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Not, Yeah, they do. I use it but I'm not using it to sell surgery.
Okay. Use what I'm saying. I'm using it to communicate. Just like you take a patient's picture and you're both looking at it together at the same time. Yep. You're also looking. The changes and the goals that the patient has together at the same time, so to speak. But I'm not trying to perfect anything on the computer screen, you know, and that's also a red flag, you know, if you show someone, if someone has a big Roman nose and, and you make it pretty straight, And they're like, It's really good, but maybe a millimeter more, no, half a millimeter.
No. Okay, that's perfect. Now I want to have the surgery. No one has that much control, you know, in, in a case. And that means they're not going to be, they're telling you I'm not going to be happy with a 99% improvement. Right. I'm only going to be happy with perfect. And we know perfect is not possible. So that's a red flag.
So, I'm actually using it to actually interview the patient as well. Right? And, and I, and I like it in that, that some people take the, the photos that I've morphed and they reor them, you know, and make the nose tiny and pinched. And I'm like, I'm glad you did that because that shows me that I'm not going to be able to deliver what you want.
I'm not going to do that. And, and we're not a good match. You know, we're just not a good match. And so, I like to use it that way. Some, some colleagues are using it to sell the surgery. You know, they, they make a perfect nose. They print it out, the patient's walking around with it like this, and they think that's what they're going to get.
And you, you, you're not a 3D printing, you know, robot. So, I would be cautious about using it to cell surgery. I would do a little less than you think you can actually deliver. Right? And, and you're using it to kind of interview the patient. From an aesthetic standpoint, you know, if you do something that looks really nice natural, and that you think you can achieve, the patient's completely unsatisfied with it, or they're like more, more and more than that, that's telling you that you, you, you may be cautious, you should be cautious about moving forward with that patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, so let's go on to the more fun stuff and positive, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, and that's marketing and you people have that big out. One of the reasons I wanted you on this podcast I talk about this, I blog about it, it all of it's called extreme targeting. And most surgeons are appalled at the thought of only having a certain target market or a certain procedure, right.
Or a certain thing that that catapults them to be different, you know? Yeah. And you just jumped right in completely with that. And as too, you even have black nose job.com URL. You have an email called Ethnic Plastic surgery@gmail.com. If you look at social. You are called African American rhinoplasty, ethnic rhinoplasty before, after septal perforation surgery, Dr. Jason Hamilton, but you have absolutely bought into extreme targeting in regards to www.BlackNoseJob.com. And just tell me what that was like and were you scared to death to do it, to be that targeted or you know, do you regret it or, or has it actually catapulted you to get out of the fray of everybody?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, I, I think I think what you alluded to I like the way you kind of categorized that like extreme, you know, focus, it's an extreme focus.
Yeah. I, I think it's catapulted me. It was always my interest anyway, but just kind of putting a stamp on it and saying, this is who I. And, and I'm okay with who I am and, and this is what I do anyway. Let me just put a stamp on it. I think that that's catapulted me in, in that submarket to heights that I probably wouldn't think were possible.
It's catapulted me over just a regular practice too. I'm not the, the numbers are busier than a busy surgeon, you know, in, in my mind. And I couldn't do most of, I don't think I can do much more and not pull my hair up, you know? But it's definitely been, been a positive force, but I'll tell you where it came from.
One in a very competitive market, right? Yes. And so, if you're just going to be another Botox injector, you know it's, it's just going to be a price war at that point, right? A lot of doctors love rhinoplasty, especially in Los Angeles, you know big seed. They love doing rhinoplasty. But I think the niche for me is that I've, I've always just as a student, a resident, and then, you know, practicing on my own I find I've found that specifically black patients weren't getting great results on rhinoplasty.
You know Michael Jackson, you know, being a beat the poster child. Yeah, yeah. Poster child for that. And so, and then, and this is something that I, I was passionate about and I feel I was doing a, a really good job at, and so I, I just said, I'm going to put my stamp on it. I, I have some marketing advantages and, and I'm going to use.
I am of African descent. I'm black, so that helps. I'm a facial plastic surgeon. I love rhinoplasty and I'm okay putting my stamp on it. If you look at the numbers there were, there were probably about let's just say 400,000 rhinoplasties last year in the us in 2020 in the us probably down from the normal numbers, but that it's still the number one cosmetic surgery right now.
Only about 5% of those are, are African American or Africans, or described as African. So that does not seem like a good marketing strategy, right? If 95% of the patients have rhinoplasties are going to be represented by, by a different ethnicity or race. And so however 5% of 400,000 is a lot of patience.
You know, that's more patience than I could do in my lifetime. And that's every year. You understand what I mean? So, so if you, if you can actually have the courage, focus on anything because there's more than enough patience for you, you, there's more patience than you could ever operate on in your entire life.
So, so, being kind of hyper, super extreme focused has worked very well for me because you get attention you get immediate recognition for that if you're doing a good job and taking care of your patients. And it's harder the entrance point for anyone else coming in. It's a little, it's a little more difficult.
You can't just jump in, you know, it doesn't come out of a box as I like to say to, to my staff and stuff. But wrestling, I can just open a box. Botox, they can just open a box. Cool sculpting. You just open the paddles, stick them on, turn on the sensor. But for you, if you're a surgeon, this is just my belief, if you're a surgeon, you have a unique set of skills.
If you have a particular area of interest, developed you know, repeatable, great results. You should jump out. You should jump out, you know especially in a big market, which sounds like the opposite of what you'd want to do. If I was in a small market, I probably would just stick with everything.
Cause there's not a lot of competition, you know? In, in a, in a middle size sound, there may only be a couple surgeons. They may be cordial to one another and they all do different things. You should probably keep the breath of your, your specialty. But if you, if you want to compete and you have a talent for something, I think it's okay to just focus on that now when you let everything else.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're going to see a nose dive that nobody can survive, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: They can't handle that. Right. You have to, you have to survive the phone not ringing. Right. You know, you have to survive the phone not ringing and, and your schedule going to you know, turning white basically, you know, like nothing's on the schedule, nothing's there.
You have to be willing to survive that. But then when you are building back up, it's, it's actually real, you know? It, it's I like to say if you just have a, a Botox practice you know, someone can set up shop across the street and get a, have discounts and you may lose, you know, percentage of those patients overnight.
If you're, if you're super specialized, you're probably going to be okay. You're going to weather a lot of storms and we've weathered a lot of storms. You know, I, I trained when I was training, it was during Katrina. You know maybe two years after I was done practicing the market crashed. You know even doctors weren't referring patients because no one had insurance or so they were holding onto their patients as long as they could.
I'm in la plastic surgeons aren't going to refer patients to, you know. And then and then I've been through the pandemic. I, I've had a lot of, lot, I started out in the recession, so that kind of made me aware that things can change in your practice, you know, and, and you want to have good stability.
You want to build in something that can weather the storm. And I think extreme, you know, specialization is one of those things, you know, if people need those services. They, they will find you. And, and I'm diversified. I'm not just doing cosmetics. So, the reconstructive part of my practice you, you, if you, if you fracture your orbit, you know, you're not going to be able to just walk around with that until you conveniently ready to take care of it.
So, I think all of those things are like, people let trauma, they let they let the reconstruction kind of slide away from their practice, where I think it's a great a great part of, you know, plastic surgery. One of the most common. Perform procedures for all plastic surgeons, right? It almost trumps everything else.
Is, is reconstructive, like doing skin cancer work? You know there's, there's a lot of work there for, for surgeons and, and if you give it up, you're basically giving up your diversity. You know, hey, you're not diversifying your practice, but, but when things are going well, there's a temptation to do that.
I'm just really lucky that when I came out, things were going bad for everybody, you know? So, if you, if you grew up in the Great Depression, you keep cans of peas, you know, in basement you know, just in case.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But back to extreme targeting, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, that allows you to charge an awful lot more, which I hope you are, because you have put all your eggs in this particular basket or a lot of your eggs, and the patient now is be, is being attracted to your expert status.
Yes, your celebrity status, like you're hanging with the big boys, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com. Now at that you're also in Beverly Hills, so that hasn't hurt, but you've gotten some really killer PR from this. Yeah. You were on the doctors. The way is the doctors, is it kind of like a pay to play thing or some you had pay somebody to do something to get on these shows, right?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: No. Just from our branding and experience. Yeah. We were contacted by the show to see if we could help, you know, a particular patient. At least in our case. That's how it's always gone. We were on Dr. Pimple Popper, you know, recently, and again, you know, she contacted us just from my reputation to help her with, you know, a case.
So that's how it's gone for us. And, and what I'm saying is, that's, that's better than having to necessarily have a PR person if, if you're just known as Okay. A lot of, a lot of practices can do this, but when you have a real. This is where you go, we're those guys, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, and that's what, what everyone wants.
Like when, when you have a patient who wants something like a facelift, who do you go to? You want your name to pop up. And that doesn't happen by accident. You have to focus on that and write about it and speak about it and do a lot of it and have a lot of people talking about it. How about the celebrity status you have though, because you are attracting can you just tell one story about the that football player?
I don't know anything about football, but Sta Johnson Yeah. Did that kind of put you on the map and change your career a bit to help you, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Yeah, I think so because you know, everyone's aware of like orthopedic surgeons, right? Dealing with some shoulder injury on a football player, but there probably has never been an E N T or a facial plastics doctor that's going to be on ESPN, you know?
And so, the Stefan Johnson had dropped, you know, 275-pound weight on his neck basically crushing his, his larynx and his ability to breathe. And we got the call to come to, to come help out and basically ended up saving his life and his career because he was able to get back out on the football field.
And that story through ESPN running, you know, almost every hour during the Christmas holiday, you know? Oh my God. We got a lot of notoriety wherever I. It, we were traveling to New York once, and it was on the jumbotron, you know, big screen in New York, Times Square, you know, so, so the, the, that definitely catapulted us and made people aware that we do also take care of athletes, which, you know, no one thinks that e t doctor or facial plastic, so you're thinking orthopedics.
But these guys break their nose, boxers, break their jaws. And it just kind of put us on the map for that. And then we started getting contacted by athletes and sports teams and to take care of patients. And it really catapulted that part of my practice. And that, that also builds, builds credibility, you know?
Yep. And then that allows you to build other parts of your practice. So, we're going to stick with our plan. Seems to be working, and that's a great plan. It, it's a slower, more methodical, meticulous road, but it pays dividends for a longer period of time, I think.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, what's driving you, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,? I like to talk about mindset, like how did you get to thinking like this?
It doesn't sound like you grew up with medicine, so that kind of came out of left field, but do you have a drive to help people? Ego gratification? Like what, what, like what's driving you?
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Basically, my drive is initially I wanted to get into medicine. Because I wanted to be able to take care of myself and my family.
Like you know, coming from Jamaica we don't have access to this level of healthcare. When my grandmother, for example, had surgery, we had to buy the implant and take it, you know, to the doctor and hand it to them., you have to bring food to the hospital and you have to feed your family member, bathe them, and do all, you have to change the bedding.
You're basically nursing and, and that you know, children process things differently. That seems a little scary to me., you know? And, and my fear was being a position where I can help my family or myself, you know? So that was my initial interest in saying, hey, I think medicine would be a good choice because you, you can help your family, you know, you can help, you can help people, and, and, and you don't have to, you know, live in fear.
And so that, that was one of my drivers to get into medicine and just being. Individually passionate about being excellent at something. That's, that's really what I wanted to be excellent at something. And I think we all do we all have those dreams but we may not know how to do it. And I, I wanted to feel like I could grow in medicine, in an area where I could find an expertise and kind of really focus on that.
And that's, that's really my drive. Rhinoplasty gives you that you'll never perfect it. You'll never perfect it. You know, you're really practicing medicine in the sense that you, you can become as, as good as you are. And even when you get to the, the stage where maybe even patients don't know what you're talking about, where you're finding critiques on yourself but you're finding them, you're finding those critiques, right?
And you want to make them better. And, and the further you go in your career, and you follow your patients, you get to see those long-term results. You get to see 10-year results, 15-year results, and, and then you think back and you're like, I'm not going to do that again. I'm going to, I'm going to change what I do, and then I want to see how that turns out in 10 years.
So, it's, it's very motivating and it's inspiring and it's you're kind of like a tortured artist in that sense. Ok. Cause you're, you're, you're picking yourself apart and it keeps you humble. So, I, there's no ego involved in it. It actually keeps you humble because you'll never perfect it. And, and agreeing to sign up for that challenge right.
Is very humbling. And, and it keeps the passion going for myself, you know, for myself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the payoff's been fantastic, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com,. You have, you just have a lovely practice, lovely demeanor, lovely reputation great patients. I think you did Cardi B recently, or no? Or no. There's, oh my God, you just, you have a lot of good things going on there and you, when you mentioned your dog, was it the dog? The therapy dog.
Jason S. Hamilton, MD: Oh yeah. Yeah, we have a well I have my own dog, but we, we do have a therapy dog that's part of the practice, you know Laney and that, that kind of grew out of Covid and it's called Pause for Patients. It's part of our foundation. And Elany will go to different schools and help.
Children with maybe learning disabilities and the children will read to her. And just get to kind of have some comfort or the excitement. Who doesn't love a dog? You know, it was really big during Covid because people were isolated. So, Laney was even doing video, you know, talks with kidβs classrooms and so it's been really popular.
And it's, you know, therapy dogs are well known. Most people probably don't have one as part of their practice, but you know, it's just, it's, it's very unique and We're excited about her participation and she, she's been able to, you know, Laney has been able to raise funds for us to do medical missions in other countries and health children and, you know, adults that have you know, maybe cancer diagnoses or tumors or deformities that they could never have taken care of because of resources in their country.
And that's something I'm passionate about too, and that keeps me really humble because I have a good balance. I'm in Beverly Hills plastic surgery. And then and then I'm going to third world countries and seeing what real, you know, poverty or lack of hope looks like. And it really balances, balances things out for me.
My kids get to see me do that and I've brought my children with me on these trips, and so they get to see what the world looks like outside of our bubble. And, and I think that's important too, and I recommend that to anyone is to you definitely. You definitely want to give back and you definitely want to see what the world looks like and what your gift is as a physician and what you can do outside of just your practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Huh. Excellent words of wisdom, Jason S. Hamilton, MD of www.BlackNoseJob.com, I think. We'll, we'll leave it at that. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I'll be watching you grow, although you probably don't need any more growth. You're doing just fine. But everybody if you did want to get ahold of Dr. Hamilton, you could go to www.BlackNoseJob.com.
Yeah. And then it'll viral off onto different places. But he's doing a heck of a job, so I would take a look at that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on www.BlackNoseJob.com with Jason S. Hamilton, MD.
A big thanks to Dr. Jason S. Hamilton for sharing his successes related to www.BlackNoseJob.com.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βwww.BlackNoseJob.com β with Jason S. Hamilton, MD."
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to exit your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "How to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA."
Most cosmetic practice owners think about, worry and plan for their financial future.
They wonder how theyβll get off this treadmill and get their hard-earned money out of their practice when they decide to slow down or sell.
They ponder how many years they have left to shoot the lights out and grow their net worth, so they donβt have to step down their lifestyle once they retire.
So, in this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, Iβm interviewing someone who helps surgeons exit profitably from their practices when theyβre ready to do so.
Itβs Lamar Rutherford, MBA and CEO of Excellens Solutions based out of San Diego, CA.
Lamar is a licensed business broker, as well as a Mergers & Acquisitions Advisor to smaller businesses, including cosmetic practices.
She came on my radar because she was involved in the sale and merger of a few surgeons I know so I wanted her to share her words of wisdom for those of you who are, or should be, thinking about how you can exit your own practice profitably.
Lamar talks about her β5 Dβ exit plan that you want to know about so you, too, know how to set yourself up for a successful exit.
Visit Lamar Rutherford's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
How to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to exit your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "How to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA."
Now, today I have a very different kind of guest, whoβs an expert on how to exit your practice.
Usually I have surgeons, but today, I am interviewing someone who helps surgeons exit profitably from their practices when they're ready to do so. It's Lamar Rutherford, MBA. She has a very fancy name and she's CEO of Excellens Solutions, who help surgeons on how to exit their practice, based out of San Diego, although she can work throughout the US.
Lamar is a licensed business broker as well as a mergers and acquisitions advisor to smaller businesses, including cosmetic practices. Now she has personally brokered the sale of over 50 businesses and over 100 transactions in a variety of industries and has started, managed, and sold several of her own businesses, and can help you learn how to exit your practice.
Now she got on my radar because she was involved in the sale and merger of with, of several surgeons that I do know. So, I wanted her to share her words and wisdom on how to exit your practice that she helped with the other surgeons. But now help you who might be thinking about or should be thinking about exiting your practice profitably.
So Lamar, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Thank you, Catherine. Thanks for the nice introduction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Definitely not a surgeon!
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, now that I'm getting older, I've been in this industry for 22 years working with plastic surgeons and now that we're all getting older, there's a lot more discussion about how to exit your practice.
What do I do with this business? Like what is, you know, I have my practice. I've been working in it for 30 years, , and I'd like to step away, but how do I do that? In the old days, it was easier to do. In today's world, it's a lot more complex. And so my first question would be, when do you want to start planning your exit? How does one learn on how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Well, you could start planning your exit any. But and have that goal in mind. We always say planning for the exit is good business practices, but you know, at least a year in advance you can really make a difference on what happens. But some of the things that make a difference for getting more value for your business, you want to start?
Earlier. And I'll give you an example. A lot of plastic surgeons, it's all about the name and the name of the owner. And so if you can start to kind of transition away from it being just about that particular surgeon, you'll get a better value. And sometimes surgeons are very specific about the work they do.
But if they bring on other surgeons or other nurse practitioners, that sort of thing then the business is not all about them and it's easier to get a better value when you sell. So to kind of think about it more, A business versus their own private practice makes a difference. And so, you know, when do you start that?
Well, the earlier the better because we always say you want to look at your business through the lens of a buyer. Our company name is Excellence, but we, we play off that. So if you think about it from the lens of a buyer, if the business is all about you and you leave, then the customers are more likely to.
To have the opportunity to change or to go to a different doctor or that sort of thing. So the more you can make those relationships and those customers not solely dependent on you, then the better the sale for the buyer, the, the less risky, and so you get a higher value and it's less risky. Does that answer your question?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes. And the really big question is, in regards to how to exit your practice, because if you look at it from, like, I always say I'm a consultant to surgeons and I always say, build your practices if you were going to sell it. You know, think of the practice as what, what value at do I have right now in this practice that another surgeon would also value and pay top dollar four?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what kind of assets. Because we always do the usual, like do you have a long-term lease? Do you have a big patient list? But in today's world, what is a value to another per another surgeon who would want to take over a practice, in regards to how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: And every time you mention something, I'm like, Well, I could talk about that.
So exactly you want to look at your assets and what would be valuable to a buyer. But let me give you an example. The lease it's helpful to have a long-term lease because that's something that the buyer can count on. But if you have a lease, With options then the landlord is sort of tied in with the options.
But when you go to sell once that option or once that lease is up, you get off the lease. So, if you have a really long-term lease, you often stay on it as a backup. And so. A couple of things related to that. You want to make sure the buyer is qualified and able to continue to pay that lease or if you can, are there ways to negotiate to get off that lease?
Landlords don't really have any motivation to let you off. They, you know, they can keep you as a backup if you sign that lease. Sometimes leases aren't personally guaranteed, so you don't have that risk. It's only guaranteed by the business. But they're all things to think about when. Evaluate a buyer.
And that's one thing to remember too is when you are selling your business to think about who is a good buyer for your business. And some of that is size related. Larger businesses are more likely to have maybe private equity group come in and by or other medical groups smaller businesses.
It's more difficult for those groups to come in and take over. So, You know, size matters in terms of who the buyer might be. You might be more likely to be bought out by an individual doctor if you're smaller. And then other factors related to buyers. Sometimes another plastic surgeon might want to buy you.
And that we consider that sort of a strategic buyer. Another plastic surgeon buying you. You want to make sure that there is value and they'll get your customers, you'll be able to transition them. Sometimes there's a period where you can transition and the, and the customers are more likely to stay.
So, so you want to think about that in advance and try and set your practice up so that it is easier for whatever kind of buyer to take it over. And the more buyers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so out of curiosity, in reference to how to exit your practice. Some of the surgeons have bought their building, mm-hmm. and now they realize, wait a second, I don't want to sell my building.
I want to keep it for security and for passive income after I learn about how to exit your practice. So, I'd rather become a landlord now. But then does that hurt or help when you're trying to sell your practice? Does it her or help to have a building involved in the transaction?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Most of the time when people are buying a practice, buying the building as well, stretches their economics.
So often they want to buy the building, but not till later. So often the seller can get that lease and that passive income for a. At least a while and sometimes ongoing. So it doesn't really hurt the sale to not sell the building. It can help in some cases. A doctor wants to buy both, but again, a lot of times they're stretched out financially on just the business purchase and can't afford the business right away.
SBA makes it very attractive for owner occupied and so they will want to buy it and they'll want an option and you can kind of evaluate whether that makes sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then where does the staff fit into this, in regards on how to exit your practice? Do you, do you like to package up the transaction, including the staff or not? Or, how does that work?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: So, the staff is part of the business. So, if you think about it, the what? Buyers pay for is the, really the return on the investment. So, when they invest in your business, they want to make sure they get that annual income that you're making. To make that income, they have to have the assets of the business.
And part of the assets of the business is the staff. It's your processes and procedures. It's, you know, whatever is your equipment. It's all part of the business purchase and. The more that staff is willing to stay, the better the value. If the staff all leave when you leave, you know, it's almost like what are they getting a customer list?
It's a lot less valuable.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you have to write them into the agreements and are they signing, like is the staff signing things that say I'm going to stay for two years, or anything like that, after the surgeon learns on how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: So, the most common purchase is what's called a bulk asset sale. That's different than a straight asset sale. A straight asset sale is where they're just buying your equipment and maybe your customer list.
A bulk asset sale is essentially buying your whole business. And it's similar to a stock sale. It's just called a bulk asset sale. And the advantages of a bulk asset sale over a stock sale for both buyer and seller is that once you. The bulk asset sale, you can close the previous entity, and so previous liabilities, there's no risk of those.
Even if there weren't any, there might be something that comes up. If it's a stock sale, then everything goes with the sta. So, the difference between a bulk asset sale and a stock sale is that with a bulk asset sale, one entity closes and another one opens. And so all the employees end up getting laid off and then rehired with a new entity and that.
You know, just overnight kind of thing. So, you have to get them to resign with a stock sale because it's part of the entity already. Then they just continue with it, so it's slightly easier. So that's, Asset sale versus bulk asset sale versus stock sale. With employees, you generally want them to stay and a lot of times buyers will negotiate that.
They want those employees to stay. You can't ever make an employee sign a contract where they have to stay. Right. It's, it's employment. It will. State or most places, maybe some states that's not the case. But here in California it's definitely the case and, and generally most places. And so, you can do things like if they really want those employees to stay, you can give them bonuses after they stay a certain period of time.
So that gives them motivation to stay. So that's a good tool. Sometimes buyers want to meet and. Get the employees to sign unemployment contract before the deal closes. I'm always very careful about that because you never know until a deal closes that it's really going to close. We had one deal where two hours before the money was being transferred, the buyer got slapped with a lawsuit and so the bank froze everything.
You just never know. It can be, you know, the strangest circumstances. So, we always to keep the stress low for customers, for employees, for everyone. We always recommend not telling them until it closes, unless you really feel like you have a relationship where you need to or it's required as part of the purchase, but we'll do that as close to closing as possible.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So many variables when learning how to exit your practice. This and, and so many are, are uncertain. You donβt know what's going to happen. Cause there are so many people involved and personalities and how they react to things. So, do you wait and shock them? You know, you tell the staff the night before, by the way I sold the place. I'm not, I'm not sure that's a, I don't know about that either.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Generally, I, you know, I've sold my own businesses and it's difficult, but generally I think it's easier to tell them once you know the answer and. If you tell them that, yes, we've been working on this. I'm sorry I couldn't tell you earlier, but I wanted to wait until we were sure. And I also wanted to be able to introduce you to the new owner and make sure that they were great.
So, I think that makes it a, I don't know. You know, everyone has a personal relationship they have to evaluate, but that's generally what we recommend.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I will tell you, just in my consulting, I have noticed that the one that works fairly well is when you bring that one in, that that not a fellow, somebody a little older or who's willing to, the doctor's willing to, you know, groom that person before he learns on how to exit your practice.
But he is, you know, he's younger. He, they bring them in kind of as an associate. Everyone feels everyone out. Make sure they have a good match with good values that you know are congruent. And then the staff's comfortable. Everyone's comfortable, and now they have a meeting. You know what we are going to be selling?
I'm going to be selling to this another doctor, you know, in a year or two just to like cruise into it instead of like this huge shock and being too quick on how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: I highly recommend that I think. Find someone who's a good fit and you can kind of test them out as maybe an employee or a staff person. And then over time, maybe they earn ownership over time, or maybe they buy it out at a certain point or they buy a percentage and then buy more.
I do a lot of those deals. I help structure those. So, and I, and I. I think that that's one of the, the great ways to do it. Sometimes these private equity groups that are buying practices sometimes they have a system for doing that. So, if you don't have someone you can sell to them and they can find someone to bring on and, and help make that transition smoother, that works too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I haven't had as good luck with that, in regards to how to exit your practice. Like the, these big guys coming in who know nothing about plastic surgery, they don't know the people. I just think that's a little rougher road to go down. It's not the worst, it's just, it's, it's more, it's just, it becomes more bureaucratic and more business-like, which makes sense.
But then I don't know. But let me ask you about not just the staff, but the other revenue generators in your practice. Hopefully you have other people in your practice making money. God help you. If you are 96% of the revenue generation in your practice and you want to walk away, you don't have, what do you, You don't have anything to sell after youβve learned on how to exit your practice.
You know, nobody wants to buy your list. They want to buy predictable income. So, if, I hope that at that point you have like a nonsurgical revenue stream, then perhaps you. I don't know about aestheticians, but certainly the bigger ticket items you have some nurse injectors or PAs or NPs who really make a lot of the money.
You know, actually I used to run a surgeon's coaching club and the my, my mentor said to the other surgeons, If you are more than 27% of your practice revenues, you're not running your practice. And everyone looked at it, I'm like 27%. How do you do that? You know, becuase that was such a shocker, in terms of on how to exit your practice. But he also was able to have a major personal problem his.
$6,000 home burnt down in 45 minutes. And because he was set up so well, it was just a little ping. It was like a, a pain in the neck kind of thing that happened rather than an absolute disaster. Cause he had his practice running so well with plenty of other people in there making money that he was able to take a lot of time off to fix that personal tragedy that happened with him.
But what do you think about that, in regards to how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Well, you, Yeah, you raise a good point. Revenues and revenue. One of the things we watch for is customer concentration. Well, most doctors have multiple patients, so customer concentration isn't a huge issue. Customer concentration is when one customer accounts for a large percentage of the revenues but they have the opposite problem where they're often the.
The concentration or the revenues are all dependent on them. So, the more you can come up with revenue streams that are not dependent totally on the owner, and that is often other nurse practitioners or others doing services and services where people have to come back on a regular basis are more valuable than one time services.
And then recurring revenue. So, it's great if you can get aestheticians and nurse practitioners and that sort of thing to bring in revenue, but also if you have point systems or other systems that keep people tied in the stickier the revenue, the better. And so those things are great even, and sometimes recurring revenue.
You know, I always say, you know, some businesses recurring revenue is difficult, you know, based on technology. But I'm like, Amazon turn delivery into recurring revenue. So there, you know, sometimes you just have to be creative on how you look at it. So, so try and, and look at your practice that way.
If you can say, Okay, you're coming in for services once a month. What if we just charge you monthly and it's this rate instead of just per. Sometimes that works. But in terms of recurring revenue, the stickier, the better, the more valuable. So whatever you can do to get people signed into contracts where maybe it's 30 day cancellation, but it's still stickier than them paying you each time.
Does that make sense?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes, in regards to how to exit your practice. And that's exactly why I came up with my, my own program called the KISS Club, the KISS Loyalty Club, because you're absolutely right. It's so much easier to keep that repetitive nonsurgical patient than it is to keep that one and done surgical patient. There's so much more uncertainty with the surgical than the nonsurgical.
And I mean, a cosmetic patient will be a cosmetic patient today and tomorrow and next year and five years from. And if you take good care of them and add that stickiness, like a really special program, like a KISS program where they don't want to go anywhere else because they can't get kisses from anyone else, they can only get them in your practice, in regards to how to exit your practice.
Right. That's super helpful. So that's one thing I'm trying to do to add value to the surgeons who want to exit. So they have something to sell. But speaking of that, the revenue generators, such as the RNs or the laser techs, or the NPs or PAs, would they have to be packaged in with the deal or, because again, you can't make them stay either, but.
But they're way more, well, I shouldn't say way more. Everybody's important, but it's easier to lose the front desk person than it is to lose that RN who brings in a million a year, regardless if learning how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: You know? Exactly. It's very important that the more you can get them to stay and be sticky, the better too. Because they are the rev revenue generator.
Now, if they're easy to replace, like, Oh, you know, tomorrow I could go find a half a dozen nurse practitioners that know how to do this, you know, generally they probably. The ones that are easier to replace, those services are easier for people to get elsewhere. . So, so the ones that are really valuable are the ones that are better to make sure that they're sticky and, and stay when the buyer comes in, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: In today's world, in relation to how to exit your practice, I don't think it's easy to find really good revenue generators, you know, if you can find one, I would hang on to them. Things have changed a lot. And there's so many options nowadays for where they can go. And then a lot of people who, like a revenue generator, let's say an RN, she's an excellent nurse injector.
Notoriously she says, Oh, I, I'm making a million for this practice. I'll just go out on my own and do it myself. And they don't realize what goes into that, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that can be a rude awakening. I'm just wondering how legal do you have to get. If I'm a surgeon buying someone's practice, and I'm looking at, okay the surgeon has a terrific list of happy patients, great revenues, but, but, you know great reviews great referrals and all that, but it, but does that constitute money for me and learning how to exit your practice?
So then maybe, well, maybe not, I'm not sure. So then I'll look at his other revenue generators. He has two nurse injectors who are just crushing it. But how do you buy that if you. No. If they're going to stay, I don't get that part, in reference to how to exit your practice, that is.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Well, that's where sometimes they tie them in with you know, sometimes they change the purchase price and say we'll pay you more if they stay longer.
So that there are sometimes terms that way if it's a real sticking point. Generally, I try and avoid that when I do deals, but there's also You know, that bonus. Whereas if they stay, they get that bonus, that can be part of the deal and that can help alleviate that challenge. You know, it's not a perfect world, but it certainly can help.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, money, Money certainly is the motivator, when dealing with how to exit your practice, isn't it?
So, just generally speaking, what would you like, give me like the, the five tips, something like that, in relation to how to exit your practice. Like five tips of what you do now, no matter how long you've been in practice, what you can do now to plan for your exit whenever you decide to.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: So, my first tip is always have good books. Your books are clean.
It's really important. I always say your financials tell a story. Your books tell a story. Make it a best seller. And so, so you really want things to be clean and straightened out and not anything that's going to raise suspicions. So there might be some old transactions that, you know, Oh, it was reversed, it's all great.
It's, it's all cleaned up. But the reality is anything that creates kind of some of that suspicion you want to clean up beforehand and make sure that it's like on a. If you get into a house and there are cracks in the foundation and no one told you about it, you wonder what else is wrong? . So, so clean books is my number one thing.
Number two, try not to make it all about you, which we talked about because it's harder to transition. Three recurring-revenue. Whatever you can do to make your revenue sticky and strong and keep your staff there, those are all important. Fourth is look at your assets. If your assets are in good shape and good condition that's important.
And also, transferability with assets. So sometimes assets. And I'm talking equipment. Sometimes equipment has a loan against it. Is that transferable? Are you going to have to pay it? So, pay attention to that. I don't, plastic surgeons often don't have insurance contracts, but that's also something that you have to pay attention to.
If you do have insurance contracts. Are they transferable? What do you have to do to do that? That's important too with customer contracts sometimes. You want to make sure what I recommend is if they, you know, have to renew every 30 days on, on your recurring revenue, make sure that just rolls.
And you don't have to call them up and reengage them because if there's a change in ownership that could be a problem. And your lease or your building, make sure that, that you're not going to get kicked out of your location. Your location matters. And so, so those, those are big tips.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Lease is a huge tip and the laser machines are huge.
I didn't even think of that. I remember a one surgeon told me he was going to sell, but the maintenance. The new surgeon would have to pay the maintenance because the minute there was a change of ownership, it all, you know, all bets were off kind of thing. So, everybody who's got some equipment that they want to sell and there's maintenance involved and sometimes it's very costly maintenance.
You want to check into that, you know, what's the change of ownership? Terms and, and conditions. You know, what, what, what's involved in that? Because you don't want any big surprises when you buy something, it turns out great and you still have to pay 5,000 a year for maintenance, regardless if you figure out how to exit your practice, or not.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: And we can do an assessment and kind of, you know, highlight some of these things that might be potential problems.
One thing too is like if there's two partners or they're buy, sell agreements, because if something happens to one, what happens? Any of the doctors, you know, what happens if something happens to you? We talked a little bit beforehand about the five D's death, disability, divorce, disaster, disagreement, and I think the stats are 50% of business owners over 55 are impacted by those five Ds, and so you, they add five Ds again.
Death, disability, divorce, disaster and disagreement. Oh, wow. Okay. So, you want to make sure you're just, you've thought about that, like what happens if something happens to you and it can be a divorce. How do, what do you do if you have to, you know, share your practice? Proceeds with your ex, that kind of thing.
But more frequently I see that if there's any kind of partnership that you know, what happens, suddenly you might be partnered with your ex-partners wife or kids, you know, So you want to make sure that there's an opportunity to buy out in that case. So yeah, I always raise that, just to think about that.
The, the, be prepared for the five. And sometimes it's keyman insurance. Sometimes, you know, if you have a, a key. Producer, maybe it's another doctor. Do you have insurance if something happens to them? So, so just, you know, be mindful of some of those things that can impact your business.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say most surgeons just try to sell it on their own, or do they use a broker person like you?
Or how, how do they normally, if someone's even thinking about in reference to how to exit your practice. Do they want to contact you now and, and do a consult with you and then later on when they're ready, ready, you come back? Like, how does that work, in regards to how to exit your practice? I don't even know how you get started on selling a practice. All I heard is, call you.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Yeah, exactly. That's what I recommend. Call me. And there's different scenarios, different situations. So, if you have a. Then we, you know, would help you work through that transaction. If you want to be prepared, we can do an assessment and evaluate kind of what you need to do to prepare If you are already ready, know you want to sell, then we talk about what's the best strategy to sell your business.
So, I think that answers your question, what to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, one last question for me, on the topic of how to exit your practice, is how different is the price that the doctor thinks his practice is? Versus what, you know, you could maybe get for it, you know? So, is there a big discrepancy normally, and if so, do you know why?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Yes. Most doctors don't factor in the fact that it's all dependent on them, and that's the biggest factor, but it, it all depends on what's in their books.
I'll give you an example. One business owner we looked at his books and did evaluation and the valuations are often multiples of, what's it called? Adjusted ebitda or seller's discretionary earnings, which is kind of a proximity for cash flow. So, when we were looking at that, we thought the value would be, you know, a multiple of that.
But then when we looked closer, it turns out he was not paying rent to himself. And so, it was an expensive building. That rent was over 200 grand a year, and so that had a huge impact on his valuation. So, there are things like that that can make a difference. You want to make. You know, you're evaluating your business based on market value of rent if you're not paying yourself rent.
So there, there's, you know, some, the Devil's in the details with, with some of these valuations. But generally, we can do a valuation for any company. We do it for a couple grand. It doesn't cost much. If you ever want to know what your value is, I think it's valuable because, First of all, you understand what the value is, and then you also know how it's calculated so you can kind of structure your business around that, although I've given you a lot of the information you need.
But so values, Yeah. A lot of times owners think the value is higher than it is because they might hear from someone who sold a much bigger business. And larger businesses tend to sell for higher multiples or they may just not know the details that might cause the value to be lower. Things like the rent or the dependency on themselves or, or other factors.
Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know I did have a surgeon that did a huge build out in a penthouse on the top floor of this gorgeous building in San Francisco, and it cost him 800 grand at the time, many, many years ago. And he thought he was going to recoup that from the sale, and nobody, nobody else was going to pay for it.
Like, they were like, No, I'm just paying my, And I think he got like 200 grand when it was all said and done. But I, so, I, So no one's going to pay for your renovations, you know, like they, they're going to stay, in regards to how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: If the renovations drop to the value on the bottom line, then they'll pay for it. But it has to show up in the profits.
Yeah. And this, like, I have a plastic surgeon that has some IP they invested in technique and. But they haven't seen the value of that yet, so they don't have it. So what's the value? Probably the legal expense that you went through. But once that's up and running and you're starting to get a revenue and profit stream from it, then you get the value.
Mm-hmm. . Or sometimes there's some kind of trademark or patent that has been in operating for years. Well, you're not going to get extra value for that because it's already showing up in your numbers. So, some of that matters sometimes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Another really big one. This is my last one, is Goodwill. A lot of the surgeons, I mean, and I get it, they went through hell to become a surgeon.
They went through decades of staff issues you know, landlord issues, building issues. I mean, it's just issues. And they want to get paid for that, in terms of how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: What do you say to that? The goodwill shows up in the numbers. Mm-hmm. So, if you know your assets are worth, I don't know, let's say half a million, but when we look at the numbers and your profits say the business is worth 1.2 million, then 700 grand of that is the goodwill.
So that's how it shows up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree, in terms of how to exit your practice. I really appreciate this. I think you offered a ton of value there, and I highly recommend my audience to hire you for that assessment. How important is it for you to know how much is the value your practice right now? That might be a, a huge awakening to you, or a surprise or something that, or maybe it's even worth more than you even thought.
So highly recommend that assessment. How would they get ahold of you, if they wanted?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: You can always email me: Lamar@ExcellensSolutions.com. It's like βexcellentβ except an βSβ instead of a βTβ.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Google like "Excellens" with an "S", and then Lamar, you pop up.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Do you want me to give my phone number? I'm happy to give that too. Okay, it's (619) 333-6296.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to exit your practice.
A big thanks to Lamar Rutherford, MBA for sharing her treasure trove of knowledge on how to exit your practice.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βHow to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA."
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#howtoexityourpractice #practiceexit #exitingyourpractice #exityoursurgicalpractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to exit your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "How to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA."
Most cosmetic practice owners think about, worry and plan for their financial future.
They wonder how theyβll get off this treadmill and get their hard-earned money out of their practice when they decide to slow down or sell.
They ponder how many years they have left to shoot the lights out and grow their net worth, so they donβt have to step down their lifestyle once they retire.
So, in this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, Iβm interviewing someone who helps surgeons exit profitably from their practices when theyβre ready to do so.
Itβs Lamar Rutherford, MBA and CEO of Excellens Solutions based out of San Diego, CA.
Lamar is a licensed business broker, as well as a Mergers & Acquisitions Advisor to smaller businesses, including cosmetic practices.
She came on my radar because she was involved in the sale and merger of a few surgeons I know so I wanted her to share her words of wisdom for those of you who are, or should be, thinking about how you can exit your own practice profitably.
Lamar talks about her β5 Dβ exit plan that you want to know about so you, too, know how to set yourself up for a successful exit.
Visit Lamar Rutherford's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
How to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to exit your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "How to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA."
Now, today I have a very different kind of guest, whoβs an expert on how to exit your practice.
Usually I have surgeons, but today, I am interviewing someone who helps surgeons exit profitably from their practices when they're ready to do so. It's Lamar Rutherford, MBA. She has a very fancy name and she's CEO of Excellens Solutions, who help surgeons on how to exit their practice, based out of San Diego, although she can work throughout the US.
Lamar is a licensed business broker as well as a mergers and acquisitions advisor to smaller businesses, including cosmetic practices. Now she has personally brokered the sale of over 50 businesses and over 100 transactions in a variety of industries and has started, managed, and sold several of her own businesses, and can help you learn how to exit your practice.
Now she got on my radar because she was involved in the sale and merger of with, of several surgeons that I do know. So, I wanted her to share her words and wisdom on how to exit your practice that she helped with the other surgeons. But now help you who might be thinking about or should be thinking about exiting your practice profitably.
So Lamar, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Thank you, Catherine. Thanks for the nice introduction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Definitely not a surgeon!
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, now that I'm getting older, I've been in this industry for 22 years working with plastic surgeons and now that we're all getting older, there's a lot more discussion about how to exit your practice.
What do I do with this business? Like what is, you know, I have my practice. I've been working in it for 30 years, , and I'd like to step away, but how do I do that? In the old days, it was easier to do. In today's world, it's a lot more complex. And so my first question would be, when do you want to start planning your exit? How does one learn on how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Well, you could start planning your exit any. But and have that goal in mind. We always say planning for the exit is good business practices, but you know, at least a year in advance you can really make a difference on what happens. But some of the things that make a difference for getting more value for your business, you want to start?
Earlier. And I'll give you an example. A lot of plastic surgeons, it's all about the name and the name of the owner. And so if you can start to kind of transition away from it being just about that particular surgeon, you'll get a better value. And sometimes surgeons are very specific about the work they do.
But if they bring on other surgeons or other nurse practitioners, that sort of thing then the business is not all about them and it's easier to get a better value when you sell. So to kind of think about it more, A business versus their own private practice makes a difference. And so, you know, when do you start that?
Well, the earlier the better because we always say you want to look at your business through the lens of a buyer. Our company name is Excellence, but we, we play off that. So if you think about it from the lens of a buyer, if the business is all about you and you leave, then the customers are more likely to.
To have the opportunity to change or to go to a different doctor or that sort of thing. So the more you can make those relationships and those customers not solely dependent on you, then the better the sale for the buyer, the, the less risky, and so you get a higher value and it's less risky. Does that answer your question?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes. And the really big question is, in regards to how to exit your practice, because if you look at it from, like, I always say I'm a consultant to surgeons and I always say, build your practices if you were going to sell it. You know, think of the practice as what, what value at do I have right now in this practice that another surgeon would also value and pay top dollar four?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, what kind of assets. Because we always do the usual, like do you have a long-term lease? Do you have a big patient list? But in today's world, what is a value to another per another surgeon who would want to take over a practice, in regards to how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: And every time you mention something, I'm like, Well, I could talk about that.
So exactly you want to look at your assets and what would be valuable to a buyer. But let me give you an example. The lease it's helpful to have a long-term lease because that's something that the buyer can count on. But if you have a lease, With options then the landlord is sort of tied in with the options.
But when you go to sell once that option or once that lease is up, you get off the lease. So, if you have a really long-term lease, you often stay on it as a backup. And so. A couple of things related to that. You want to make sure the buyer is qualified and able to continue to pay that lease or if you can, are there ways to negotiate to get off that lease?
Landlords don't really have any motivation to let you off. They, you know, they can keep you as a backup if you sign that lease. Sometimes leases aren't personally guaranteed, so you don't have that risk. It's only guaranteed by the business. But they're all things to think about when. Evaluate a buyer.
And that's one thing to remember too is when you are selling your business to think about who is a good buyer for your business. And some of that is size related. Larger businesses are more likely to have maybe private equity group come in and by or other medical groups smaller businesses.
It's more difficult for those groups to come in and take over. So, You know, size matters in terms of who the buyer might be. You might be more likely to be bought out by an individual doctor if you're smaller. And then other factors related to buyers. Sometimes another plastic surgeon might want to buy you.
And that we consider that sort of a strategic buyer. Another plastic surgeon buying you. You want to make sure that there is value and they'll get your customers, you'll be able to transition them. Sometimes there's a period where you can transition and the, and the customers are more likely to stay.
So, so you want to think about that in advance and try and set your practice up so that it is easier for whatever kind of buyer to take it over. And the more buyers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so out of curiosity, in reference to how to exit your practice. Some of the surgeons have bought their building, mm-hmm. and now they realize, wait a second, I don't want to sell my building.
I want to keep it for security and for passive income after I learn about how to exit your practice. So, I'd rather become a landlord now. But then does that hurt or help when you're trying to sell your practice? Does it her or help to have a building involved in the transaction?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Most of the time when people are buying a practice, buying the building as well, stretches their economics.
So often they want to buy the building, but not till later. So often the seller can get that lease and that passive income for a. At least a while and sometimes ongoing. So it doesn't really hurt the sale to not sell the building. It can help in some cases. A doctor wants to buy both, but again, a lot of times they're stretched out financially on just the business purchase and can't afford the business right away.
SBA makes it very attractive for owner occupied and so they will want to buy it and they'll want an option and you can kind of evaluate whether that makes sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then where does the staff fit into this, in regards on how to exit your practice? Do you, do you like to package up the transaction, including the staff or not? Or, how does that work?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: So, the staff is part of the business. So, if you think about it, the what? Buyers pay for is the, really the return on the investment. So, when they invest in your business, they want to make sure they get that annual income that you're making. To make that income, they have to have the assets of the business.
And part of the assets of the business is the staff. It's your processes and procedures. It's, you know, whatever is your equipment. It's all part of the business purchase and. The more that staff is willing to stay, the better the value. If the staff all leave when you leave, you know, it's almost like what are they getting a customer list?
It's a lot less valuable.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you have to write them into the agreements and are they signing, like is the staff signing things that say I'm going to stay for two years, or anything like that, after the surgeon learns on how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: So, the most common purchase is what's called a bulk asset sale. That's different than a straight asset sale. A straight asset sale is where they're just buying your equipment and maybe your customer list.
A bulk asset sale is essentially buying your whole business. And it's similar to a stock sale. It's just called a bulk asset sale. And the advantages of a bulk asset sale over a stock sale for both buyer and seller is that once you. The bulk asset sale, you can close the previous entity, and so previous liabilities, there's no risk of those.
Even if there weren't any, there might be something that comes up. If it's a stock sale, then everything goes with the sta. So, the difference between a bulk asset sale and a stock sale is that with a bulk asset sale, one entity closes and another one opens. And so all the employees end up getting laid off and then rehired with a new entity and that.
You know, just overnight kind of thing. So, you have to get them to resign with a stock sale because it's part of the entity already. Then they just continue with it, so it's slightly easier. So that's, Asset sale versus bulk asset sale versus stock sale. With employees, you generally want them to stay and a lot of times buyers will negotiate that.
They want those employees to stay. You can't ever make an employee sign a contract where they have to stay. Right. It's, it's employment. It will. State or most places, maybe some states that's not the case. But here in California it's definitely the case and, and generally most places. And so, you can do things like if they really want those employees to stay, you can give them bonuses after they stay a certain period of time.
So that gives them motivation to stay. So that's a good tool. Sometimes buyers want to meet and. Get the employees to sign unemployment contract before the deal closes. I'm always very careful about that because you never know until a deal closes that it's really going to close. We had one deal where two hours before the money was being transferred, the buyer got slapped with a lawsuit and so the bank froze everything.
You just never know. It can be, you know, the strangest circumstances. So, we always to keep the stress low for customers, for employees, for everyone. We always recommend not telling them until it closes, unless you really feel like you have a relationship where you need to or it's required as part of the purchase, but we'll do that as close to closing as possible.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So many variables when learning how to exit your practice. This and, and so many are, are uncertain. You donβt know what's going to happen. Cause there are so many people involved and personalities and how they react to things. So, do you wait and shock them? You know, you tell the staff the night before, by the way I sold the place. I'm not, I'm not sure that's a, I don't know about that either.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Generally, I, you know, I've sold my own businesses and it's difficult, but generally I think it's easier to tell them once you know the answer and. If you tell them that, yes, we've been working on this. I'm sorry I couldn't tell you earlier, but I wanted to wait until we were sure. And I also wanted to be able to introduce you to the new owner and make sure that they were great.
So, I think that makes it a, I don't know. You know, everyone has a personal relationship they have to evaluate, but that's generally what we recommend.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I will tell you, just in my consulting, I have noticed that the one that works fairly well is when you bring that one in, that that not a fellow, somebody a little older or who's willing to, the doctor's willing to, you know, groom that person before he learns on how to exit your practice.
But he is, you know, he's younger. He, they bring them in kind of as an associate. Everyone feels everyone out. Make sure they have a good match with good values that you know are congruent. And then the staff's comfortable. Everyone's comfortable, and now they have a meeting. You know what we are going to be selling?
I'm going to be selling to this another doctor, you know, in a year or two just to like cruise into it instead of like this huge shock and being too quick on how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: I highly recommend that I think. Find someone who's a good fit and you can kind of test them out as maybe an employee or a staff person. And then over time, maybe they earn ownership over time, or maybe they buy it out at a certain point or they buy a percentage and then buy more.
I do a lot of those deals. I help structure those. So, and I, and I. I think that that's one of the, the great ways to do it. Sometimes these private equity groups that are buying practices sometimes they have a system for doing that. So, if you don't have someone you can sell to them and they can find someone to bring on and, and help make that transition smoother, that works too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I haven't had as good luck with that, in regards to how to exit your practice. Like the, these big guys coming in who know nothing about plastic surgery, they don't know the people. I just think that's a little rougher road to go down. It's not the worst, it's just, it's, it's more, it's just, it becomes more bureaucratic and more business-like, which makes sense.
But then I don't know. But let me ask you about not just the staff, but the other revenue generators in your practice. Hopefully you have other people in your practice making money. God help you. If you are 96% of the revenue generation in your practice and you want to walk away, you don't have, what do you, You don't have anything to sell after youβve learned on how to exit your practice.
You know, nobody wants to buy your list. They want to buy predictable income. So, if, I hope that at that point you have like a nonsurgical revenue stream, then perhaps you. I don't know about aestheticians, but certainly the bigger ticket items you have some nurse injectors or PAs or NPs who really make a lot of the money.
You know, actually I used to run a surgeon's coaching club and the my, my mentor said to the other surgeons, If you are more than 27% of your practice revenues, you're not running your practice. And everyone looked at it, I'm like 27%. How do you do that? You know, becuase that was such a shocker, in terms of on how to exit your practice. But he also was able to have a major personal problem his.
$6,000 home burnt down in 45 minutes. And because he was set up so well, it was just a little ping. It was like a, a pain in the neck kind of thing that happened rather than an absolute disaster. Cause he had his practice running so well with plenty of other people in there making money that he was able to take a lot of time off to fix that personal tragedy that happened with him.
But what do you think about that, in regards to how to exit your practice?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Well, you, Yeah, you raise a good point. Revenues and revenue. One of the things we watch for is customer concentration. Well, most doctors have multiple patients, so customer concentration isn't a huge issue. Customer concentration is when one customer accounts for a large percentage of the revenues but they have the opposite problem where they're often the.
The concentration or the revenues are all dependent on them. So, the more you can come up with revenue streams that are not dependent totally on the owner, and that is often other nurse practitioners or others doing services and services where people have to come back on a regular basis are more valuable than one time services.
And then recurring revenue. So, it's great if you can get aestheticians and nurse practitioners and that sort of thing to bring in revenue, but also if you have point systems or other systems that keep people tied in the stickier the revenue, the better. And so those things are great even, and sometimes recurring revenue.
You know, I always say, you know, some businesses recurring revenue is difficult, you know, based on technology. But I'm like, Amazon turn delivery into recurring revenue. So there, you know, sometimes you just have to be creative on how you look at it. So, so try and, and look at your practice that way.
If you can say, Okay, you're coming in for services once a month. What if we just charge you monthly and it's this rate instead of just per. Sometimes that works. But in terms of recurring revenue, the stickier, the better, the more valuable. So whatever you can do to get people signed into contracts where maybe it's 30 day cancellation, but it's still stickier than them paying you each time.
Does that make sense?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes, in regards to how to exit your practice. And that's exactly why I came up with my, my own program called the KISS Club, the KISS Loyalty Club, because you're absolutely right. It's so much easier to keep that repetitive nonsurgical patient than it is to keep that one and done surgical patient. There's so much more uncertainty with the surgical than the nonsurgical.
And I mean, a cosmetic patient will be a cosmetic patient today and tomorrow and next year and five years from. And if you take good care of them and add that stickiness, like a really special program, like a KISS program where they don't want to go anywhere else because they can't get kisses from anyone else, they can only get them in your practice, in regards to how to exit your practice.
Right. That's super helpful. So that's one thing I'm trying to do to add value to the surgeons who want to exit. So they have something to sell. But speaking of that, the revenue generators, such as the RNs or the laser techs, or the NPs or PAs, would they have to be packaged in with the deal or, because again, you can't make them stay either, but.
But they're way more, well, I shouldn't say way more. Everybody's important, but it's easier to lose the front desk person than it is to lose that RN who brings in a million a year, regardless if learning how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: You know? Exactly. It's very important that the more you can get them to stay and be sticky, the better too. Because they are the rev revenue generator.
Now, if they're easy to replace, like, Oh, you know, tomorrow I could go find a half a dozen nurse practitioners that know how to do this, you know, generally they probably. The ones that are easier to replace, those services are easier for people to get elsewhere. . So, so the ones that are really valuable are the ones that are better to make sure that they're sticky and, and stay when the buyer comes in, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: In today's world, in relation to how to exit your practice, I don't think it's easy to find really good revenue generators, you know, if you can find one, I would hang on to them. Things have changed a lot. And there's so many options nowadays for where they can go. And then a lot of people who, like a revenue generator, let's say an RN, she's an excellent nurse injector.
Notoriously she says, Oh, I, I'm making a million for this practice. I'll just go out on my own and do it myself. And they don't realize what goes into that, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that can be a rude awakening. I'm just wondering how legal do you have to get. If I'm a surgeon buying someone's practice, and I'm looking at, okay the surgeon has a terrific list of happy patients, great revenues, but, but, you know great reviews great referrals and all that, but it, but does that constitute money for me and learning how to exit your practice?
So then maybe, well, maybe not, I'm not sure. So then I'll look at his other revenue generators. He has two nurse injectors who are just crushing it. But how do you buy that if you. No. If they're going to stay, I don't get that part, in reference to how to exit your practice, that is.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Well, that's where sometimes they tie them in with you know, sometimes they change the purchase price and say we'll pay you more if they stay longer.
So that there are sometimes terms that way if it's a real sticking point. Generally, I try and avoid that when I do deals, but there's also You know, that bonus. Whereas if they stay, they get that bonus, that can be part of the deal and that can help alleviate that challenge. You know, it's not a perfect world, but it certainly can help.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, money, Money certainly is the motivator, when dealing with how to exit your practice, isn't it?
So, just generally speaking, what would you like, give me like the, the five tips, something like that, in relation to how to exit your practice. Like five tips of what you do now, no matter how long you've been in practice, what you can do now to plan for your exit whenever you decide to.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: So, my first tip is always have good books. Your books are clean.
It's really important. I always say your financials tell a story. Your books tell a story. Make it a best seller. And so, so you really want things to be clean and straightened out and not anything that's going to raise suspicions. So there might be some old transactions that, you know, Oh, it was reversed, it's all great.
It's, it's all cleaned up. But the reality is anything that creates kind of some of that suspicion you want to clean up beforehand and make sure that it's like on a. If you get into a house and there are cracks in the foundation and no one told you about it, you wonder what else is wrong? . So, so clean books is my number one thing.
Number two, try not to make it all about you, which we talked about because it's harder to transition. Three recurring-revenue. Whatever you can do to make your revenue sticky and strong and keep your staff there, those are all important. Fourth is look at your assets. If your assets are in good shape and good condition that's important.
And also, transferability with assets. So sometimes assets. And I'm talking equipment. Sometimes equipment has a loan against it. Is that transferable? Are you going to have to pay it? So, pay attention to that. I don't, plastic surgeons often don't have insurance contracts, but that's also something that you have to pay attention to.
If you do have insurance contracts. Are they transferable? What do you have to do to do that? That's important too with customer contracts sometimes. You want to make sure what I recommend is if they, you know, have to renew every 30 days on, on your recurring revenue, make sure that just rolls.
And you don't have to call them up and reengage them because if there's a change in ownership that could be a problem. And your lease or your building, make sure that, that you're not going to get kicked out of your location. Your location matters. And so, so those, those are big tips.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Lease is a huge tip and the laser machines are huge.
I didn't even think of that. I remember a one surgeon told me he was going to sell, but the maintenance. The new surgeon would have to pay the maintenance because the minute there was a change of ownership, it all, you know, all bets were off kind of thing. So, everybody who's got some equipment that they want to sell and there's maintenance involved and sometimes it's very costly maintenance.
You want to check into that, you know, what's the change of ownership? Terms and, and conditions. You know, what, what, what's involved in that? Because you don't want any big surprises when you buy something, it turns out great and you still have to pay 5,000 a year for maintenance, regardless if you figure out how to exit your practice, or not.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: And we can do an assessment and kind of, you know, highlight some of these things that might be potential problems.
One thing too is like if there's two partners or they're buy, sell agreements, because if something happens to one, what happens? Any of the doctors, you know, what happens if something happens to you? We talked a little bit beforehand about the five D's death, disability, divorce, disaster, disagreement, and I think the stats are 50% of business owners over 55 are impacted by those five Ds, and so you, they add five Ds again.
Death, disability, divorce, disaster and disagreement. Oh, wow. Okay. So, you want to make sure you're just, you've thought about that, like what happens if something happens to you and it can be a divorce. How do, what do you do if you have to, you know, share your practice? Proceeds with your ex, that kind of thing.
But more frequently I see that if there's any kind of partnership that you know, what happens, suddenly you might be partnered with your ex-partners wife or kids, you know, So you want to make sure that there's an opportunity to buy out in that case. So yeah, I always raise that, just to think about that.
The, the, be prepared for the five. And sometimes it's keyman insurance. Sometimes, you know, if you have a, a key. Producer, maybe it's another doctor. Do you have insurance if something happens to them? So, so just, you know, be mindful of some of those things that can impact your business.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Would you say most surgeons just try to sell it on their own, or do they use a broker person like you?
Or how, how do they normally, if someone's even thinking about in reference to how to exit your practice. Do they want to contact you now and, and do a consult with you and then later on when they're ready, ready, you come back? Like, how does that work, in regards to how to exit your practice? I don't even know how you get started on selling a practice. All I heard is, call you.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Yeah, exactly. That's what I recommend. Call me. And there's different scenarios, different situations. So, if you have a. Then we, you know, would help you work through that transaction. If you want to be prepared, we can do an assessment and evaluate kind of what you need to do to prepare If you are already ready, know you want to sell, then we talk about what's the best strategy to sell your business.
So, I think that answers your question, what to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, one last question for me, on the topic of how to exit your practice, is how different is the price that the doctor thinks his practice is? Versus what, you know, you could maybe get for it, you know? So, is there a big discrepancy normally, and if so, do you know why?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Yes. Most doctors don't factor in the fact that it's all dependent on them, and that's the biggest factor, but it, it all depends on what's in their books.
I'll give you an example. One business owner we looked at his books and did evaluation and the valuations are often multiples of, what's it called? Adjusted ebitda or seller's discretionary earnings, which is kind of a proximity for cash flow. So, when we were looking at that, we thought the value would be, you know, a multiple of that.
But then when we looked closer, it turns out he was not paying rent to himself. And so, it was an expensive building. That rent was over 200 grand a year, and so that had a huge impact on his valuation. So, there are things like that that can make a difference. You want to make. You know, you're evaluating your business based on market value of rent if you're not paying yourself rent.
So there, there's, you know, some, the Devil's in the details with, with some of these valuations. But generally, we can do a valuation for any company. We do it for a couple grand. It doesn't cost much. If you ever want to know what your value is, I think it's valuable because, First of all, you understand what the value is, and then you also know how it's calculated so you can kind of structure your business around that, although I've given you a lot of the information you need.
But so values, Yeah. A lot of times owners think the value is higher than it is because they might hear from someone who sold a much bigger business. And larger businesses tend to sell for higher multiples or they may just not know the details that might cause the value to be lower. Things like the rent or the dependency on themselves or, or other factors.
Soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know I did have a surgeon that did a huge build out in a penthouse on the top floor of this gorgeous building in San Francisco, and it cost him 800 grand at the time, many, many years ago. And he thought he was going to recoup that from the sale, and nobody, nobody else was going to pay for it.
Like, they were like, No, I'm just paying my, And I think he got like 200 grand when it was all said and done. But I, so, I, So no one's going to pay for your renovations, you know, like they, they're going to stay, in regards to how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: If the renovations drop to the value on the bottom line, then they'll pay for it. But it has to show up in the profits.
Yeah. And this, like, I have a plastic surgeon that has some IP they invested in technique and. But they haven't seen the value of that yet, so they don't have it. So what's the value? Probably the legal expense that you went through. But once that's up and running and you're starting to get a revenue and profit stream from it, then you get the value.
Mm-hmm. . Or sometimes there's some kind of trademark or patent that has been in operating for years. Well, you're not going to get extra value for that because it's already showing up in your numbers. So, some of that matters sometimes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Another really big one. This is my last one, is Goodwill. A lot of the surgeons, I mean, and I get it, they went through hell to become a surgeon.
They went through decades of staff issues you know, landlord issues, building issues. I mean, it's just issues. And they want to get paid for that, in terms of how to exit your practice.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: What do you say to that? The goodwill shows up in the numbers. Mm-hmm. So, if you know your assets are worth, I don't know, let's say half a million, but when we look at the numbers and your profits say the business is worth 1.2 million, then 700 grand of that is the goodwill.
So that's how it shows up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree, in terms of how to exit your practice. I really appreciate this. I think you offered a ton of value there, and I highly recommend my audience to hire you for that assessment. How important is it for you to know how much is the value your practice right now? That might be a, a huge awakening to you, or a surprise or something that, or maybe it's even worth more than you even thought.
So highly recommend that assessment. How would they get ahold of you, if they wanted?
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: You can always email me: Lamar@ExcellensSolutions.com. It's like βexcellentβ except an βSβ instead of a βTβ.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Google like "Excellens" with an "S", and then Lamar, you pop up.
Lamar Rutherford, MBA: Do you want me to give my phone number? I'm happy to give that too. Okay, it's (619) 333-6296.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to exit your practice.
A big thanks to Lamar Rutherford, MBA for sharing her treasure trove of knowledge on how to exit your practice.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βHow to Exit Your Practice β with Lamar Rutherford, MBA."
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#howtoexityourpractice #practiceexit #exitingyourpractice #exityoursurgicalpractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Zakhary is practicing in Canada.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Practicing in Canada β with Kristina Zakhary, MD."
Canada has restrictions on advertising cosmetic surgery that we donβt have here in America. For example, plastic surgeons cannot use testimonials and a facial plastic surgeon must call themselves Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgeons.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Kristina Zakhary, a facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Alberta, Canada.
Dr. Zakhary splits her time between cosmetic and reconstructive facial surgery as an associate staff member of the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Calgary.
We talked about the challenges of staffing, how to avoid embezzlement and how she markets herself in a country that limits her options.
Dr. Zakhary also uses an interesting consultation process that yields above average conversion rates in her practicing in Canada.
Visit Dr. Zakhary's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Practicing in Canada β with Kristina Zakhary, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty in the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and practicing in Canada. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Now, today's special guest is Dr. Kristina Zakhary. She's a facial and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Alberta, Canada. Now she specializes in rhinoplasty, blepharoplasty, facelifts, as well as a variety of nonsurgical solutions.
Now, Dr. Zakhary is also an associate staff member at the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Calgary, and she did a fellowship in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery at the University of Toronto that is accredited by both the Canadian and American Boards of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery.
Now, Dr. Zakhary is often a guest speaker at conferences and has authored and co-authored several published research papers about plastic surgery. Of course.
So, Dr. Zakhary, who will be discussing practicing in Canada, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Thank you for having me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Can you just quickly tell us your road to private practice and practicing in Canada? And I know Canada's a little different than we are. Do most surgeons stay in the academic world or do they go on private practice? And how big of a deal was that for you?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: So, as you know, I'm an otolaryngology head and neck surgeon, and my, my focus is facial plastic and reconstructive surgery. Most, to answer your question, most surgeons complete their residency and maybe fellowship and then go back into academic practice. Private practice is extremely rare in Canada because we do have socialized healthcare.
And so a lot of Doctors go straight back into, you know, the, the academic route. Or even if they are not in the academic system, they will go into still a public practice, but rural. So how did I go into private practice? I still have a hybrid practice, so I still do work for Alberta Healthcare. , I do on call rotations and I do operate at the hospital once a month, on average once a month.
And I, then I have, the majority of my practice is my private facial plastic and reconstructive surgery practice where I do exclusively, you know, cosmetic surgeries and procedures in the office. How did I get started? Right out of fellowship, I moved to Calgary, Alberta because they were starting up a new residency training program here and they needed somebody from each sub-specialty for that otolaryngology head neck surgery residency training program.
And I never thought I would end up out west. I'm from Montreal originally and everybody who's from Montreal wants to stay in Montreal. It's kind of the most European city in Canada and it's lovely and the weather is beautiful. And so nobody really wants to leave and I didn't really want to leave, but I had to for work.
And boy am I glad that I did because I love Calgary. It's really beautiful here. I started off working in a room out of a spa. And that's because in Montreal when you graduate, they automatically offer you a, a po If you're, if you're hired at the hospital, you, they automatically offer you your office.
A secretary and a wait list of patients and I moved here and it was a wild, wild west. I had to find my own office. I had to find my own secretary, and I had to build up my patient list. So I had been to several. Lectures at the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery Annual Meetings.
And I had listened to you a number of times, so I had a background of how to get started already by listening to experts such as yourself. And the one takeaway that I had from that is start small. And then build large. So it's not like the field of dreams. If you build it, they shall come, start small, start within your means, and then grow.
And that's exactly what I did. So I started in humble beginnings. I don't have any connections in my family. Nobody's a doctor except for me. And so I started in a room out of a spa and grew from there. Eventually I had got my own. And then I got a bigger office and now I'm just very happy where I am. I wouldn't be opposed to growing more, but I'm very content and I think along the route I have been content where, where I am and that has really helped me to be happy and grow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. I do know there's a big challenge when you're trying toggle between recon and cosmetic. In other words, facing challenges while practicing in Canada. The recon will often take all of your time and focus, and the cosmetic suffers from that or the other way around. Have you found
that to be true? Yes and no. I have been very careful to even focus my public practice on public healthcare practice, on facial plastic and reconstructive surgery cases.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: So I don't do a lot of recon. I'll do functional rhinoplasties and I'll do functional blepharoplasties OPLs on children because here in Canada or here on Alberta at least, it's, the procedure is covered by Alberta Healthcare until 19 years old. So, Focus my, even my public healthcare practice on facial plastic and reconstruction surgery.
And the reason I do that is because that's really what I enjoy doing. And I firmly believe that in if you enjoy doing something, you do it well. And I don't want to, you know, try to do surgeries that I'm not used to doing or that I'm not, you know, because I haven't done them in so long that I'm not really that qualified to.
So I know that what I do, I do well and I focus on that. Even if it's not a private case, even it's a public case, I will still perform it as though it is a private case because that's my reputation on the line.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, excuse my ignorance in regards to practicing in Canada, but the last I heard, you could actually have the system pay for your facelift, but you could be in line for five years waiting. Is that true?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: It's true and it's not true. I think it's a gray line. I don't like gray zones. I like to be black and white, so I never want in a, in an instance where, you know, maybe the system will audit me. I never be want to be found at fault. So I draw a very strict line between cosmetic and non-cause, you know, and public healthcare cases.
So for example, it's very common as you probably already know, for patients to say, Well, since I'm having my septoplasty done, can you shave a little off the bridge? And. You know, I, I always draw a hard line at that. If there's anything cosmetic that you want to do, that's automatically considered a private case.
If it's majority breathing problems and like legitimately the person came to me with a breathing issue and their nose happens to be crooked, then I will suggest, you know, if you want to straighten it, we could do it at the same time. But if it's a majority cosmetic case and then they throw in, Oh, well I also have trouble breathing.
Can you do that? And will it be covered? The answer's. No to that because number one the cosmetic surgery might actually reduce the breathing space. You know, especially if you're doing a reduction rhinoplasty making no smaller, and which I explained to them. And number two, the main concern is a cosmetic concern is not a breathing concern.
So I don't like to scam the system and ultimately somebody's paying for it and it's a taxpayers and it's not.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And that reminds me, I think you do a very good job qualifying your callers because don't they always call and say, Is this going to be covered?
So do you have your, about how do you qualify callers and make sure you have the right people in your office that you actually want to help you in practicing in Canada?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Well, I actually have you to think for that, Ms. Catherine, because you train my staff. So I do qualify my colors according to your suggestions. So whenever a color calls in we get their history. You know, the, My assistance will get their history, what they would like to change about their nose or face, or.
Eyes or whatever it is they're concerned about what, what timeline they would like to have the procedure performed in. We always give them straight off the bat the cost of the surgery or an approximate cost so that there's no surprises. We like to be fully transparent and so also people can budget or you.
Seek another surgeon if the budget doesn't fit them. And I just want everybody to be very prepared. We also ask for pH photos. So we ask them to send us photos with a description of what they would like to address in the body of the email. And then that way I can see if I can meet their expectations.
If it is a good fit, then we will Patient and organize video consultation, just kind of like what we're doing now by Zoom or FaceTime or another video app. And during the consultation, I'll go through how I do the surgery for them. So it's always individualized and personalized, what the recovery time is like, what the risks are, what the benefits are and show them before and after pictures of my work so that they can.
Fully prepared and ready to make a decision. We allow them about two weeks to think about it and credit scheduling fee, the consultation fee towards the surgical fee. So I feel like we are very thorough in assessing expectations and assessing you know, mental and physical health. And in, you know, just trying to get the patient ready for the procedure if it's something they want to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's so funny in regards to practicing in Canada, so many practices try to play the quantity game versus quality. They just say, Forget all this qualifying on the phone. I'll take care of them when they get here, and that is one way to do it. But you'll wear yourself out. You'll also wear out the staff, and I just, I love that you're going for quality versus quantity and you see less people, but they're so darn qualified that your conversion rate.
Like five times what it normally would be when you're just trying to get anybody in there. I love that you appreciate your time when practicing in Canada. You know?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: I agree. And I, I, and, and to be honest, you taught me that, so I thank you. Good. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I'm so glad you heard that because in today's world it's just getting, I donβt know another word, in respect to practicing in Canada, other than flaky.
It's getting so flaky that why are you going to waste your time talking to some silly person, especially rhinoplasties, that they, they don't have money or they have no clue of how for certified you are, or how experienced you are and all they care about is get this bump off my nose and let the insurance company pay for it, you know?
Yeah, you've structured it enough where you just, you're getting good qualified people in there to help in practicing in Canada, so congratulations.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: And the more, the more educated the person is, the more ready they are, and I think the better patient they're going to be. So I've had very good experiences thanks to that system.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic.
By the way the biggest issue typically, in reference to practicing in Canada, well, let me ask you, what's your biggest challenge of running a private.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Oh, it's got to be the HR . Yeah. I'm a micromanager and I don't like being a micromanager, but just by virtue of being a perfectionist and wanting to control every little thing I find it very hard to relinquish control.
I know I have to, I'm very aware of that, but I find it very difficult. So I find myself a lot of the time holding myself back and apologizing a lot to the staff because I do have to trust them. I, they have been handpicked. They have been loyal and they're excellent staff and they are really supportive of me in all the ups and downs of this, you know practice, we have grown together.
And so I think it's been a learning curve for me of how to let go a little bit of control of that part of the practice. And I would say that that's the hardest part for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what? I go, so I go back and forth with this and I don't want to stay gender related. However we have, we are women and women bosses and are practicing in Canada.
It's a different challenge I would say, than oftentimes our counterparts. And you are looked at as you know, you know? Right. And, and it's so, but you're the one taking the risk. It's your practice, your name. And I, you know, I like that. I like that you're a perfectionist, Although, I must say when it comes to staff, They don't think like you do and on practicing in Canada.
You know, And that's why it's so challenging because they think this is good enough. You know, what's the big deal? And that's why this is so challenging. You're just trying to work with people who are on a different plane than you are. Different mindset on practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Not as much Skin in the game. Will never have, I would agree with the skin in the game.
Comment. They, you know, the. As the surgeon and as the practice owner, I have a lot of responsibility on my shoulders. I have to make sure that the surgeries go well, that the experience is good. It's not just about a good result, but it's about the good experience as well. It's about the keeping the lights on in this place, you know, so paying all the bills.
And I also have responsibility to pay the staff so that they can have a livelihood. So there's a lot of responsibility. On the shoulders of the practice owner and the practice, you know, the surgeon. And so I don't think a lot of people realize that. They say, Oh, you're, you know, a plastic surgeon or a facial plastic surgeon, you're rich.
You know, it doesn't, and it, they don't see all the hard work that goes into building a practice, maintaining a practice. And if they did, I think they would have a lot more respect for the surgeon or the practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's why I like to have staff meetings and actually show them how, Show them the recipe, show them what goes on behind the scenes.
And while they're all out having fun on the weekends, you're trying to figure out how are we going to bring in more money to make sure everybody gets paid, you know? And. About them, but in a nice way. Like, I like to have a kitchen mission statement and it, and literally this statement would say, you know, we love our patients, we love taking care of them, but we also love taking care of ourselves in practicing in Canada.
Yeah. Because we all do, you know, we all want to experience a nice life.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: You know, we're all interconnected. I mean, if, if somebody's happy, then the whole group is happy. If somebody's upset, then it tilts the, the mood in the office and then that affects. Relationships and patient care as well that day, for example.
So you're right, it's all interconnected and we all have to be supportive of each other, right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gosh, yeah. Higher. Well, that's for sure. Fire fast, hire slow. All of that is so true in regards to practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: It's cliche. So true. True. Yeah. Yeah. It's cliche because it's true.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Exactly. So let's talk about surgical versus nonsurgical in the realm of practicing in Canada. How big of a deal is nonsurgical in your practice and do you have a philosophy of like a one stop kind of shop, or are you more surgery and you could like pass away, pass off on the nonsurgical?
What's your feeling on that, in reference to practicing in Canada?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: I think for me, I like to do both. I like to build relationships in the non-surgical aspect, and I like to do the surgeries, so I do it all myself. I do not have a nurse injector, and that's because I really value the relationship and I value my reputation. So if I'm doing it, it just comes down to the micro-manage.
Aspect of my personality. If I'm doing it, I know what I'm doing. I know, I know where I'm placing product. I know where I'm putting a suture, I know where I'm putting, you know, So I'm responsible for everything and I'm also responsible for the results. So the good results or the bad result, the call comes down to me.
And I also am not interested in training someone out of. So, you know, I see a lot of places where they have hired a nurse injector or a nurse practitioner, and then that person gains a following and then that person leaves and who's. Out of luck. It's the doctor that's out of luck and it's the doctor that has grown this person's practice for them.
So I just don't think that's fair and I don't feel like going through that disappointment and, you know, so I like to do the procedures myself. Mostly because I like to maintain control over as much as I can maintain control over. And then secondly, because this really is my practice and I want my name stamped on everything that happens.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's always a fork in the road when practicing in Canada, eventually, typically where you, you feel like that right now because you're young and, and vibrant and as you get older you start looking at this and saying, Wait a second. Or, or not, Maybe not, maybe you'll always keep it, keep it boutique it. However, it's difficult to grow when you are it, when you're the revenue generator.
Period. So you just, but there's nothing wrong with that as long as you know yourself and, you know, you're more comfortable handling practicing in Canada. Mm-hmm. . But it doesn't it's difficult to grow, but if you do want to grow, then you have to relinquish some of that control. And just like what's less painful is really the decision, you know?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Mm-hmm. , so That's right. That's, Absolutely, Absolutely. There's going to be a time where you don't want to do it all.
Catherine Maley, MBA: As you get older in practicing in Canada, you start looking at, especially when you're thinking about exiting someday, you're trying to think, Wait a second, what would somebody buy this for? Like, what are they buying? You know?
Because if you are it. And you know, how do you transfer that it to some other surgeon? And that's when down the road you might start looking at that and going, Hmm, wait a second. Let me, let me re recap in practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Calibrate, I, I thought about this to be honest, and I think down the road when I'm ready to relinquish the practice and, you know, transition out, I would probably look at taking on a junior staff member and, you know, incorporating them into the practice and then they can grow and then I can slow down and then make an exit that way.
I think that's the, the way I would do it, rather than, you know, hire somebody because ultimately that person has no obligation to stay with you. But if it's a junior associate who stands to inherit the entire practice or buy the entire practice from you, then they have more skin in that game.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure.
And you have to take your time getting to know them, you know? Mm-hmm. , it's a marriage boy. It's, it's so serious. So I, Yes, I would take, I tread lightly. Yes. . Absolutely. So, let's talk about, let's talk about marketing because, and you and I have talked about this, I have spoken in Canada several times, and my talks are a joke in regards to practicing in Canada.
Every time I, I have a strategy, they say, Oh, we can't do that here. We can't do that here. We can't do that here. And. There, Lord. I mean, yeah. Still so many rules. And I'm a marketer. I don't like lawyers or rules. Mm-hmm. . And so how do you market yourself there with all those limitations on practicing in Canada?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: You play within the, you play within the rules.
So, for example I have to state by law that I am an otolaryngology head and neck surgeon with a special focus in facial plastic and reconstructive. That's the law. I know it's a mouthful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so funny and how it relates to practicing in Canada. Do you know why I, I was on your website and made a big deal. Your headline was otolaryngology.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: But there's a big turf four, you know, and the plastic surgeons raised a big fuss not just where I live, not just in my province, but in several other provinces. So that is one of the main standards of advertising that I have to abide by. And that's fine. I don't mind abiding within the rules. I'm not embarrassed.
I don't feel less than, I think they feel like if I say that, that people might think that I'm less than a plastic surgeon and that's fine. Like that's, that's their opinion. I don't feel that way. In fact, I think that gives me a leg up. If somebody wants to have a nose, Surgery or a, you know, a face tightening or a neck lift, Who are you going to go to?
Are you going to go to somebody who does breast implants and you know, hand surgery and tummy tucks all day? Are you going to go to somebody who's been trained and specifically focused on surgery of the head and neck and noses? I mean, obviously you're going to go to the person who has the most experience and the most training.
So I wear it as a badge of honor. Like it was supposed to be as a mm, you're less than us. So you have to mention that somewhere that you're less than. I don't see it. I'm very proud. I'm very proud of my training. I'm very proud of my experience. I'm very proud to advertise it. Another thing that we're not allowed to do is put testimonials.
So I had a website page that was just dedicated to testimonials for my patients, but then I had to, you know, delete that because p. Local plastic surgeon took me to the college and made a, you know, complaint about my website, so I had to take that off. I also had to remove the part of my website pertaining to Botox injections because in Canada you are not allowed to advertise a drug that's offered under Alberta Health.
Canada. I don't know, some sort of, you're not allowed to advertise that Botox reduces wrinkles. You're not allowed to do that, so you're only allowed to say that you perform Botox injections. So those are just some of the limitations that, But I, I play within the rules. I do not like to get in trouble.
I'm a rule follower. And so if somebody points out something that I'm, you know, straying outside the lines, then I quickly correct my path. And I've always been a role follower. I think I will always be a role follow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, especially up there, your competitors will keep you, you know, hold you to the fire, you know your piece of the fire and in practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: But I have confidence in myself and I have confidence in my training. So you, they can throw whatever they want to throw my way. I will come out on top because I have confidence in what I do and how I do it. I go by the book.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you have integrity and, and they can't play with that, you know, that you keep, you're doing, I also remember in Canada, all of the me spas or the doctors had a, a practice, but then they had like a me spa type building next door because it, they couldn't sell skin care products only.
The Met Bomb Park COO or something. I just thought you, you got some rules up there in regards to practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: There are some hard rules to follow, but yeah, in the end of the day there, there are ways how to still do business. There still ways how to market and so we make it work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I did notice when I, you know, I looked at your social media.
You only have Facebook or I, I actually couldn't find your Facebook. It kept going back to mine, so that might have been my problem in regards to practicing in Canada. Instagram. It was Twitter. Are you not doing Instagram?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: No, I have Instagram. I have Instagram Facebook and Twitter, but I do not have TikTok. And you know this, maybe I'm just too old, but.
I don't like social media. I don't like it. I'm not a social media marketer. I'm not savvy on social media, although I think I should be, but I just feel it's a double edge sword. You have to have it to market. But it's also a gateway to all sorts of problems. It's a gateway to unrealistic expectations.
It's a gateway to comparing yourself to other people's, you know, results, you know, results to other people's results and the what they're, you know, advertising may not be the truth. You know, there's a lot of Photoshop involved in, in what's put online. It's a gateway to unfair criticism. I just have a, I have a hard time with social media.
I don't like it, but I have to do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Especially if you want that rhino patient they're on TikTok and my, my advice would be the next hire you have, especially with your phone receptionist, if she's also really good on social media, you might change your mind because when you get somebody who knows how to video edit and has some creative, fun ideas it could open up the world for you to help you in practicing in Canada.
But yeah, I hear you. Social media, we did not grow up with it, and I think it's the biggest waste of time on, on the planet. I can't believe how much my teenage nieces and nephews spend on it, but it's not for me.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: I just, I, I have a hard time with it because I just feel like it takes, first of all, a lot of unrealistic expectations out there, and it's promoted by social media.
And like the one, the biggest trend. So to date that has been sort of like a pain in my side has been the nose job. What is it called? Nose job check. Oh, what's that? Yeah. Have you heard of that one on TikTok? No. Where somebody says NOS job check and then they put a picture of themselves before surgery, after surgery and then, and the final product, and it looks like no time has passed, so people aren't really coming in with realistic.
Realistic expectations about healing, about results, about, you know, any of that. It's just, you know, they, they imagine it's going to be a very quick recovery, just like what they saw on TikTok, but I just don't think that that's realistic. And I think that it's fueled by not just TikTok, but all social media outlets are fueling on unrealistic expectations.
But of course I know you, you know, in order to reach a certain demographic, you have to be involved in in social media market.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You just have to be where they are and if they're not Googling you or Googling something, because I think you have to have both. I do think you need SEO to help you in practicing in Canada. Your website's got to have content that drives people to it.
But then for those people, like I have a 16 year old niece who's never even heard of email or. Googling. Like she just, she just spends time on Snapchat and all of her news . But that's where that Rhino group is. So do you do a lot of rhino or do you prefer like the aging face, or how are, how is that?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: I think now it's about, it started off I was doing 80% rhinoplasty and 20% everything. I mean in head and neck cosmetic surgery now it's about 50 50 rhinoplasty and, and aging face. So, you know, face lifts, neck lifts blepharoplasty for head lifts. And so I really have a big variety of demographic in terms of my patient base.
How do I reach. Yeah, I do have social media presence. I have a group that runs my social media accounts. So that's really good. I really have to think about it very little. I give them content, they come up with their own content, and it works well for me. The other thing I do is I of course I have SEO and a website.
That I've been taken care of and had changed it over the years. And then I have a lot of, you know, presence in still, I know a lot of people say it's not very useful, but I think it is for brand recognition. So on television and on newspapers and online, on newspapers, like if you're reading something pertaining to plastic surgery or cosmetic or beautification, I'll have a banner that'll show up.
So I, I try to have a presence. Everywhere so that when somebody thinks of facial cosmetic surgery or facial cosmetic surgery procedures, they think of my name and I'm trying to really build a brand. And I think that I have reached that and I just maintain it now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, good for you. The easiest way to tell is just, you know, always asking that patient, How did you hear about us?
But ask them again. I find that when you ask them initially on the phone, they'll just have some flipping answer typically. Mm-hmm. and they'll, they get to know you better. Then you get the real answer. Well, I was talking to a girlfriend and she mentioned you, so then I check you out. Instagram, then I.
So I'm learning that that answer is very fluid in respect to practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Yeah, it is. It really is. But I have to say the. The best. Marketing is word of mouth and it doesn't Yeah. And that's the best because you know that they are coming from a positive experience or somebody who knows they had a positive experience and they know your work intimately.
So I love word of mouth mar marketing, but of course you can't rely on that. You have to, especially when you're starting, have a presence in. In the community, that's not just word of mouth.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So we talked about the business and the marketing and practicing in Canada, and I want to talk about the mindset because you, I mean you like everyone else have had challenges, but tell me about some of, any of the adversity that you have experienced.
How did you get through it? What, what did you learn from it?
Kristina Zakhary, MD: That kind of thing. I have had a lot of adversity in, in every single stage of my practice and. Never feel discouraged by it, because I know that there is something to learn from every experience, even if it's a bad experience. So the first bad experience that I had was when I was starting out in practice.
I was just coming out of my fellowship and starting my practice, and I fell in the hands of a scam artist. It, she fit the bill of a scam artist. She befriended me. I worked with her. She had a. Spa that I was working with her out of and she, you know, she. Flatter me and say things like, You're like my daughter.
I'll take good care of you, and you're the doctor. You don't have to worry about the business aspect of things. I'll take care of that. And then she quickly was, you know, siphoning money and hiding money and. So she, in, in the end of the day, after I discovered all of this was happening, it was about three years after I had started working together with this person.
And I found that she had stolen upwards of $200,000 from me over the course of three years. And this is when you're first starting out, you know, you don't really have much, you don't have that kind of money to, to lose. So how'd you that? I went to do my taxes and I asked for the books and I found out that it was, she had put on the books that I was her employee, not the other way around.
And so I was very close to losing my business, but I very lucky to have a good support system. My accountant, my lawyer both discovered this and they quickly told me like, Do this, do that so that I can salvage my business and keep it under my name. She had weeks, she literally had weeks to be able to claim the businesses for own.
So they got me on the right track. I went out on my own. I was very nervous. Because I didn't know anything about business, and I was led to believe that I didn't need to know anything about the business, which was the biggest mistake ever, Which is why I think that I became hyper involved in every single aspect of the business and micromanaged because I lost a certain amount of trust, right?
That I, I had given away all my trust, deservedly, and then after that experience, I said, I'm going to take care of everything. I mean, right down to taking the photos. Taken, you know, out the garbage can. At the end of the day, I became everything in my business and that made me grow. You know, a lot of people would say, Oh, woe was me, and oh, you know, I am not going to do this again.
But I learned from it. I picked up my, you know, socks and I, you know, got back in the saddle and I learned about how to do business. I learned how to hire people and fire people, and I learned how to do inventory and all the business aspect that we don't learn. It was baptism by fire. That was a first adversity, and it really helped jumpstart my business sense, because before that, Had in the faintest clue.
The second adversity was when I was moving from my first office to my bigger office, and I got diagnosed with breast cancer right in the same month that I was supposed to move. So that was a shock. That was a big shock. All of a sudden everything had to come to screeching halt. I had to go through surgeries.
Chemotherapy. And the whole time I didn't want to feel like a victim, so I kept on working. I didn't do surgeries because I heard of chemo brain and I didn't want to make any mistakes. So I was doing consultations and in office procedures and my staff was instrumental by that time they had been with me with for almost four.
Very loyal to me and very supportive. So they got me through that initial period where I couldn't do surgeries and I was still able to run the business. And what did I learn from that? I learned that I can make it through adversities and I really relied on my faith. I have a strong faith background and you know, I feel like if you ask God for, I mean, if you're, if you have a faith background like I do, I ask God for help.
And I feel like he answered my prayers and visualize what you want, you know, manifest according to his will, what you want. And, you know, I have not been let down to date. So it really, I think, made me stronger emotionally, spiritually, and I have a lot of compassion now for patients who have been through things like this before.
I didn't have compassion like you do after you've been through something like this. Wow. So I learned a lot are, how do you feel now? I feel better, but then I recently lost my beloved dad. And that taught me, that taught me a lot too because you know, when I have patients who said, I lost a brother, or a sister, or a mother, a father, and you say, Oh, I'm so sorry.
You don't know how it feels until you've been through it. And I've been through it and I know how it feels. And even though my dad has passed, I still feel his presence with me. I remember, sorry, I get emotional when I talk about him, but I remember what he taught me. He really set me up for business and really think that, you know, he's still with me, so, So I think every adversity teaches you something.
Every adversity has something to learn from it, and you can't feel sorry for yourself. You have to keep on going. And it's true what they say when they say that, what doesn't kill you, make you do stronger. It really does make you stronger. So I say thank God for all the good things, and thank God for all the bad things too, because they teach you something.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow, I had no idea. You look fantastic and youβve been practicing in Canada. I'm, Thank you. Sorry. Yeah,
Kristina Zakhary, MD: No I believe it because it taught me a lot and one of the littlest things that it taught me that I use in my practice is anti-medication. I now have a good knowledge of anti-medications because I know it worked for me and I know what works for my patients.
So that's one of the little things, but just an example.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'll tell you, you know what got conspiring because like I, I am healthy and I sweat the small stuff like that little book says, Don't, and I have to remember, I love hearing stories like that. I have to remember, be quiet. Be grateful for everything you have in the midst of practicing in Canada.
Enjoy the moments, the good ones of the bad ones. They're not bad. They're just not good yet. You know, I'm, I'm really trying to Exactly.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: To get there, you know. Exactly. And don't sweat the small stuff because it doesn't matter in the end.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love to sweat the small stuff in regards to discussing practicing in Canada. Dear Lord. So well I was going to say, tell us something interesting.
We donβt know about you, but I think we just got an earful there.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: That is something I think, I think you got a. Oh, I'm so sorry.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, I'm so glad for you that you're okay now, but Oh, yeah. Yeah. You, you have to be super strong at this point. You're full of compassion and empathy for others, while practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Like, don't, don't be sorry. I think it turned me into Superwoman.
You can't knock me out. Not yet anyways.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well we're going to wrap it up now on this great talk on practicing in Canada, but I want to your website in case anyone wants to get ahold of you for a multitude of reasons. It's www.FacialCosmeticSurgery.ca.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Yeah. And my Instagram is @DrFacialPlastics.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know what tell your social media people they have to put or tell your website people the logo wasn't on your website to help you in practicing in Canada.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Yeah, Uh oh. I better call them immediately and do that. Iβll get them on that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Anyway, it's so nice to catch up with you and chatting on practicing in Canada. I really appreciate it. Hopefully I will see you at a meeting someday.
Kristina Zakhary, MD: Yep, I sure will. Thank you. It was so nice to catch up with you. Ms. Catherine. Thank you for interviewing me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely, and everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on practicing in Canada.
A big thanks to Dr. Zakhary for sharing her experiences on practicing in Canada.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βPracticing in Canada β with Kristina Zakhary, MD."
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#canadaplasticsurgery #practicingincanada #drzakhary #kristinazakharymd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and 5 Shifts to a Steady Stream of Cosmetic Patients.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "5 Shifts to a Steady Stream of Cosmetic Patients."
It takes a certain mindset to succeed today in regards to 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
You have to think different, then be different to attract a steady stream of patients you want, whenever you want, at the price you want.
So, if youβve been struggling with the yoyo-ing revenue from month to month that keeps you up at night because you're anxious about covering your overhead, this episode is for you.
This came about because I watch so many practices advertise specials and I get it...you're trying to attract new cosmetic patients but that hurts your profit margins and typically, these patients are those price shoppers who nickel and dime you to death, which is not part of the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
And social media has become a popular patient attraction strategy; however, when done right, it takes a ton of your own personal time because prospective patients want to see, hear and watch YOU.
That's what keeps them engaged so now you're not only the service provider, you are also the marketer and social media influencer.
But thereβs a creative way for you to increase the number of cosmetic patient visits, referrals, reviews and shares on social media, so your existing patients enthusiastically grow your practice for you.
The key word here, in regards to the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients, is existing patients because they are your lowest-hanging fruit and the fastest, cheapest, easiest way to more revenues because they already know, like and trust you.
That means, you don't need to put on a show for them. They are open to you and are much more apt to respond to you, so itβs always smart to start here first.
Because you know how much easier your job is when you're working with patients you enjoy vs. those you don't enjoy because they zap your energy.
You know those patients that are demanding, rude to your staff, freely negotiate with you and make you regret ever inviting them into your practice in the first place.
You just don't need the extra hassle of undesirable patients so letβs fix that so you can succeed at the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
It no longer makes sense to play the quantity game by spending more on advertising to attract a bunch of leads your staff has to follow up on that wastes their time and wastes your time when they don't show up for consultations or they show up, but say they have other consultations with your competitors so they can't commit.
You don't need that aggravation.
I want to give you a step-by-step strategy to attract a Steady Stream of High-Paying Patients.....
... Without outrageous ad budgets, discounting your services or your competitors stealing your patients.
So, Does any of this sound familiarβ¦..
Do you lose cosmetic patients and revenues to the ever-growing number of competitors surrounding you (who may be utilizing the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients), even though you believe you provide better results?
That competition is NOT going away and is only going to get worse as gov regulations increase and insurance reimbursements decrease and as advancements in technology give patients so many more surgical AND non-surgical options.
That last point affects you bigtime because patients will delay an expensive surgical procedure if they believe they can get a good enough result non-surgically in the short run from a non-surgeon - even if it ends up costing them more down the line.
And studies show, as it relates to the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients, if you don't develop a relationship early on with a patient who wants non-surgical procedures, you won't get them when they are ready for surgery because they have developed a relationship with your competitor instead. Just sayin...
Or maybe you are bringing in good revenue but by the time you've paid for your marketing, staff, office and equipment, there's virtually nothing left over for you?
Because the sign of a successful practice is if you pay yourself a nice salary AND you have money left over.
And/or are you working WAY too hard and dealing with too much stress and hassle for what youβre getting paid?
And what about the constant state of uncertainty that the government, or a pandemic, or the economy and/or technology could put you out of business without a momentβs notice? This is why you need the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
So, whatβs the Real Problem and How do You Fix This?
Well, one of the problems is too many agencies and internet marketers are promising you the world, but rarely do you see the results you were promised so you're frustrated and skeptical and for good reason.
If any of that sounds familiar, then I have good news for you because none of those are the real problem. Those are just symptoms.
The real problem is that you have not made the 5 SHIFTS needed to set up a truly profitable practice you enjoy.
Because once you make these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients,
You have peace of mind knowing you have an automatic system to attract a steady stream of cash-paying patients you can count on to grow your revenues.
You feel in control with a predictable and reliable plan to keep your revenues coming in month after month and all year long.
If you have experienced killer months and then crickets, you know what I'm mean.
This often happens because our industry can be cyclical so it's important to have a plan to avoid those feast and famine periods that cause you angst.
And, once you make these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients, you lock out your competitors and make it impossible for them to steal your patients away because your patients are loyal to you and see you as the ONLY choice, as well as the BEST choice.
It's liking putting golden handcuffs on your patients so they wouldn't dream of going anywhere else.
And here's the best part once you make these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
You go back to enjoying your work because you are able to scale and grow a sellable practice should you decide to exit in the future....or not. It's your choice!
The 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients
Now I discovered these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients after consulting with hundreds of cosmetic practices for more than 2 decades, I noted what the TOP cosmetic practices were doing that other LESS successful practices werenβt.
I shared this with my clients and now they get unbelievable results because they made the 5 key shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients and here they areβ¦..
Shift #1: Patient Centric vs. Money Centric
When you make the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients, your thinking from a βOne and Doneβ money grab event to a βPatients for Lifeβ mindset, you win the long game because....
Instead of thinking about your own bottom line and what's best for you, you think about what is best for your patient.
These 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients in thinking changes your perspective as well as your attitude about the services you provide.
You now see and treat patients as family and friends. They see your practice as a friendly safe haven. They trust you and your staff to take good care of them.
That trust is what keeps them coming back again and again.
Think about it this way....
You cater to a very hungry audience of cosmetic patients who care about their appearance.
They have endless needs for a lifetime, thanks to the aging process.
So today, they may want Botox, then a laser treatment and now they're ready for surgery and then back to non-surgical treatments to keep their look fresh. This goes on for decades.
So, commit to treating your patients like friends and family by giving them 5-star customer service and they will stay with you for the long run.
They will also reciprocate by growing your revenues for you by returning to YOU rather than your competitors.
And by referring their friends, family, coworkers and neighbors.
And by giving you great online reviews that thousands of other potential patients will see online.
And by sharing you on their own social media platforms so THEIR followers get to know you and contact you because they're ready for your services.
Think of your cosmetic patients as your lifeblood to all you want in lifeβ¦such as a fulfilling livelihood that affords you a comfortable lifestyle that supports your family, your interests and your financial future.
When you start looking at your patients in this different light, that changes your perspective, as well as your attitude and your patients feel these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients and act accordingly.
Shift #2: Drop the Discounts
There are only 2 reasons why youβre not charging higher prices, or worse, discounting your cosmetic servicesβ¦
The first one is you think this industry is commoditized and
your expertise isnβt worth higher pricesβ¦ORβ¦.
You think you will lose patients to your low-balling competitors
if you donβt discount.
But here's the thing...discounting doesnβt work. Youβll end up attracting price-shoppers who only care about a low price.
Youβll work way harder because you need more of these low-priced patients to make a profit. And youβll deal with more issues from these penny-pinchers who end up giving you bad reviews and complaining about your service (or lack thereof).
And frankly, itβs a race to the bottom that you canβt win.
Instead, you set higher standards to attract higher value cosmetic patients who gladly pay more for great customer service.
This group enthusiastically brags about you to their other high-value friends, leaves you 5-star reviews and is a pleasure to work with.
When you really get this, it changes everything.
So rather than discount, you set higher standards for great customer service and processes, so your patients have a WOW patient experience every time.
That's because you have enough revenues coming in (which is a key result of the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients), to treat your patients better than if you are penny pinching on expenses and cutting back on the very things patients will pay extra for such as smooth processes and special treatment.
In terms of your revenue goals, there's an easier or harder way to get to $1 million.
For example:
You can cater to the βprice shoppersβ who are worth $500 to you so you need 2,000 of them OR you can raise your standards, attract better patients who have the financial wherewithal to pay more for a better experience, and become your practice ambassadors who are worth $5K to you so now you only need 200 of them.
That's how you scale and work less but get better results.
Shift #3: Use a Secret Weapon
The majority of cosmetic practices go about attracting new patients and growing their revenues by doing what everyone else is doing and then wondering why itβs not working in regards to these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
Oftentimes, they donβt even know if itβs working or not because they have no easy way of seeing the results. For exampleβ¦.
The OLD traditional methods of getting new patients are to spend a ton of money on:
New website design
And SEO using content and backlinks to get ranked
And Google AdWords
Maybe even a PR agency to get you exposure
And directories like RealSelf
And even billboards
And charity events
That's what we call the "hope and pray" marketing approachβ¦.Hope itβs money well spent and pray you get new patients from it so you feel like you made a good investment.
There is a better way within the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients, and here is the secret weapon....
An exclusive Loyalty/Rewards Club that is the most powerful way to scale for predictable revenues without advertising or discounting....
....AND while turning your existing patients into your raving fans who gladly grow your practice for you, so you no longer worry about "slow spells" and covering your overhead.
It does ALL of this while developing lasting relationships with happy patients you enjoy working with.
So, you encourage your patients to return more often, refer their friends to you, give you great reviews that thousands of other prospective patients see online, and share you on social media with their OWN followers β all leading to new patients for you organically, without you spending an extra dime. A great aspect of the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
So, the new way is simple.
You pull your entire list of existing patients, and it doesn't matter how long it's been since they've been in to see you. Many will return after being gone for many, many years.
Now you make a marketing plan to consistently stay in front of these patients, so you are top of mind and when they are ready, they choose you.
Then you reward them for their loyalty and for helping you grow your practice and reputation online.
For example, you make it fun for your patients to grow your practice for you by rewarding them when they return more often, refer their friends/family, write a review, approve their B/A photos, share you on social media, shoot a video testimonial, and completing SX can be optional. A key component of the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
And when your patients collect enough rewards at different tier levels, they are rewarded with Free cosmetic services.
Shift #4: Retention is the New Patient Attraction Strategy
Because of intense competition and the Internet and social media, itβs gotten increasingly more difficult, technical, confusing and time-consuming to attract new cosmetic patients.
So, retaining your cosmetic patients through the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients has become the more direct route to more revenues.
Not sure about that?
Consider these recent stats showing you how:
- It costs 7X more to attract new patients than to retain existing patients
- Loyal patients spend 67% more than new patients
- The average new patient conversion rate is only 5%-20% while the average existing patient conversion rate is a whopping 70%-80%
- Existing patients spend 31% more on their average order size value and this makes sense because your existing patients already know, like and trust you and are much more open to your recommendations and extra products and services you offer.
- A 5% increase in retention can increase your profits by 25% - 95% because youβre not wasting money on needless advertising or hurting your profits by discounting.
You're also NOT wasting a ton of time following up on bad leads.
On top of that, your conversion rate is so much better, so your valuable time is spent with patients who say yes rather than with price-shopper strangers who never book.
Lastly, 46% of patients spend more after they join a loyalty program and 83% of patients say a loyalty program keeps them coming back.
THIS is how you leverage your time with your preferred patients who are worth 10X more to you with these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
And you stop wasting your time with those who nickel-and-dime you and then bolt for the next special deal from your competitors.
And hereβs Shift # 5: Invest in Expertise
Everyone should have a mentor or βcounselβ that gives them new ideas and provides accountability.
In your case, your mentors were seasoned surgeons showing you the way of surgery.
In this case, we have been talking about the business and marketing side of surgery so I'll bet there are new ideas forming in your head right now that would not be there if you hadn't taken the time to listen to this and these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
So, here's how it works:
It starts with your mindset and your beliefs about what is possible.
Then you take action and actually DO something based on those beliefs.
And then you get an outcome which is typically an increase in your income, your happiness and your satisfaction.
However, if you're not happy with the revenues in your practice, that means you need a new mindset, a new plan, and accountability.
Frankly, you need an experienced mentor who can pave the way to your progress and show you the shortcuts with the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients!
All of the above is possible if and ONLY if...
You are committed to growth.
Just like you invested in becoming a surgeon, because trying to do that WITHOUT proper training is crazy.
As a side note, I personally have invested at least $140K on training and mentoring for my own business, and every time, it was a BIG decision, as it was when you invested all that time and money to become a surgeon.
Now, that investment pays for itself over and over, doesnβt it?
The point is, don't go it alone with these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
Find the best expertise out there and spend what it takes to work with them.
So, to recap, here are the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients that you need to make to win:
Shift 1 - Patient Centric vs. Money Centric
Shift 2 - Drop the Discounting
Shift 3 - The Secret Weapon
Shift 4 - Retention is the New Patient Attraction
Shift 5 - Invest in Expertise
These 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients alone are enough to propel you to a multi-million-dollar practice.
So that leaves You with a choice...
You can stay stuck and keep throwing money at advertising that isnβt working and wasting time on consultations that donβt book or you can give up altogether and watch your patients and revenues slip away and now you can't get them back β¦.
But that leads to more struggle, longer hours and burn out, especially when new competitors open up shop nearby which makes you even more vulnerable to losing patients to them.
ORβ¦. if you are done with all of that and want a predictable scalable way to more patients who gladly pay the price you ask, and have the lifestyle and thriving practice youβve always
dreamed of, so you have more free time for your family and outside interests, then hereβs what I propose.
Iβd like to speak with you personally about how you can apply these 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients to your practice starting TODAY.
Whatever your biggest challenges are, Iβve seen it all and know how to overcome them.
On this phone session, we can craft a step-by-step game plan to hit your income goals for this year - whether thatβs $50K/month or $500K/monthβ¦
AND for attracting the exact patients you want to work with, which is all part of the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
The cost? Absolutely FREE.
Now you may be wondering why I'm doing this, and the answer is...
I do this because I love helping cosmetic practices achieve their goals and have committed to it for the last 22+ years.
So many practices struggle needlessly because they just don't know a better way and I want to help with that.
I know that you too might want my help to transform your practice and expand upon the 5 shifts to a steady stream of cosmetic patients.
If so, we can discuss it to see if itβs a good fit for both of us.
If not, thatβs fine too.
To book that call, go to:
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. camp went from recon to solo practice buildout.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Recon to Solo Practice Buildout β with Steven Camp, MD."
As a new surgeon entering the marketplace, itβs nice to join a hospital or practice that takes care of the business side so you can focus on what you enjoy most and that is surgery.
But oftentimes, you ended up wanting more.
Todayβs special guest is Dr. Steven Camp. He is a Board-Certified Plastic & Reconstructive Surgeon in private practice in Fort Worth, TX.
But he didnβt start out in private practice. Dr. Camp went into a multi-surgeon insurance-based practice performing reconstructive surgery.
The risk was minimal since he joined a thriving practice that was already set up and working.
He didnβt have to deal with the business or marketing side and that was fine by him.
However, after several years, Dr. Camp got restless so he made some moves and is now in his own brand new building with 2 OR suites that he will share with other surgeons in the area.
Listen in to this weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast as he explains his journey of how he got there.
As usual, itβs never an easy or straight path (but what fun would it be if it were?)
Visit Dr. Camp's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Recon to Solo Practice Buildout β with Steven Camp, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Camp went from recon to solo practice buildout. I'm your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
So today's guest is Dr. Steven Camp. He's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon and went from recon to a solo practice buildout in Fort Worth, Texas. Now he received his medical degree from the School of Medicine at Texas Tech University. He did his general surgical residency at Carolina's Medical Center, his plastic surgery residency at the University of Utah.
And he did a fellowship with somebody I know well, Dr. Daniel Mills out in California, who is the past president of ASAPS, which is now known as the Aesthetic Society. Now, Dr. Camp serves on several aesthetic society committees. He's a nationally recognized speaker for Sciton Laser Company, a member of the RealSelf ad board, and a member of the advisory board for Allergan Medical Aesthetics.
So Dr. Camp, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Steven Camp, MD: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me, Catherine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. And I know Austin, Texas, but I donβt know. Fort Worth where? What are you close to? How does this relate to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: So, I mean, we're really close to Dallas, which is kind of how people know the airport, Dallas Fort Worth. And so we're about 30 miles, 40 miles west of Dallas.
And just about the same amount north from Austin. So we're very much north central portion of the state of Texas and you know American Airlines actually headquartered in Fort Worth. So yeah, I mean that, that's kind of where we are. So you can draw a big bubble around the Dallas Fort Worth airport, more within that sphere.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Actually, I used to be a frequent flyer of, so I know that Dallas Airport very well. But I haven't traveled much at all since, you know, for a while, like everybody else. So let's hear your journey, because I believe you started off in Chicago and then you bounced all over the US with your studies and your training, and then you ended up in Fort Worth, Texas.
How did that happen? How does this relate to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, I, I, so I was born in Chicago and my, my dad worked for Sears which was, you know headquartered in, in Chicago for many years. And he, he worked in a field where he had to do a lot of international work. And so he spoke Spanish well and did a lot of business with Sears and companies trying to expand into Latin America and in Mexico.
And he ended up meeting my mother who was working for Spanish Consulate at one of these offices when he was on a business trip in New York. And so that romance sparked just via work. And my mom is Colombian, so I'm actually half Colombian by background. She and my dad Started off, you know their life.
In Chicago, that's where I was born and we, we lived there till I was a young boy, but ultimately we moved down to Texas and for the most part, I, I grew up in San Antonio. Gotcha. And did college and undergrad in the state of Texas just like a good old Texas boy. And then once I started matching into surgical residencies I was fortunate to match into the hospitals.
I really liked where I interviewed and so for general surgery, I really fell in love with North Carolina. And that's where I met my wife Sarah. And then from there we headed west to, to Utah. And then we spent time obviously with my old boss, Dr. Mills and Laguna Beach, which was wonderful experience.
And when that was all done, we decided to come back to Texas. So we actually live about three streets over for my wife's parents and Oh, nice. So that's kind of what brought us all the way back around here, full circle. So that's kind of the route. And so we just went one step out of a time. It wasn't the anything specific or planned and then all worked out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Great. And did you go straight from recon to solo practice buildout after fellowship or how did you set up shop?
Steven Camp, MD: I did. I, I, when I left fellowship, I actually joined a, a private practice. It was already existing with two other plastic surgeons. So we, we had a small plastic surgery group of three surgeons and I did that for about four and a half years.
And as I started kind of to cultivate kind of I guess my areas of interest in plastic surgery I became more focused on the aesthetic side of surgical treatments, especially body contouring and breast surgery. And decided I wanted to kind of create, you know, my own independent practice to cater to those patient needs maybe a little bit better.
And so about five years ago, I, I went independent and my wife and I started that practice ourselves with one other clinical nurse. And so was a solid, beefy team of three people. And, you know, we've, we've grown it from there over the last five years. And so we stayed very committed and dedicated to aesthetics.
Which at, at first was a scary leap, but it, it just matched our interest. And what we wanted to be able to do was focus and really give the attention to those patients so that we could deliver not only excellent surgical quality, but kind of attentive pre and postoperative care in a way that hospital settings.
Emergency call can be interruptive to. And so that's what we've done. And been just really happy with it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? In today's world with the insurance the way it is, I just don't see how you can juggle both very well. I think you can do it, it's just not very well because the insurance side will take up all of your focus and time and effort.
It's demanding as heck. And then the, the cosmetic kind of fits in where it can and very difficult to toggle between the two. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: I think you're exactly right. And I think, you know in that situation it is very helpful to kind of be able to have a focus within your practice so that you understand the procedures that you're doing and what those needs are.
And then also the business side of it, which quite frankly, no one learns well in training. So we learned the process of evaluating patients, diagnosing and treating them and then caring for them not only during their acute surgical phase, but well after that. And that really is the scope of what we learned.
And then after that you know, it just kind of expected that you would be doing enough to kind of take care of employees and pay an office building and. Cover a lot of business expenses that aren't seen, especially when you're an employee at a university hospital. So private practice is a, is a totally different animal and it was all very much on job training.
And I think that as you know I think that's probably a common refrain amongst many of us in our space, both plastic surgeons, dermatology and other people that are committed to aesthetics. It really is the practice of taking care of your patients, but then it's also. Entire business to run as well.
And both are full-time jobs. And they can be a lot of fun. But there's certainly a lot to learn. And to tell my wife that we just became accidental entrepreneurs because we, to figure out what we wanted to do with the, the scope and the scale of the business. And we're still learning that.
And so I, I learned this from one of my surgical teachers in residency and said, you know, one of the great things is that, you know, if you're paying attention every day is a school day. There's always something to learn. And, and that's true .
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you'll really learn about yourself. You know, you really learn, like, do you have any interest at all in running a business? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
You know are you okay with accounting or talking with the legal people or, you know, there's so much more to it than you realize when you get into it, but frankly, most people wouldn't even get into running their own businesses if they knew what went into it. So probably naivety is your, is your friend at that point.
So when you, I, I love to hear how you started the private practice. Did you rent space? Did you go all out and, and build a building? How, what did you do?
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, so, you know, I, I was in an, an interesting situation where I had joined an established practice and had an office and other You know, patterns of, of managing flow of patients and clinic space already established.
And then I had to uproot that and start all over again. And so that started with trying to find a space. And in the window of time between my decision to leave the group practice I was with and start my own practice, I had to figure out what that would look like in terms of an office setting and where my patients would be seen and where I would do surgical procedures and how I would manage all different kinds of things, including the accounting and the legal entity in corporation.
And of course, there was a huge loan. And so it was, it is, it was overwhelming. And but I think one of the things is, is that there was a vision about what we wanted to have our practice look like. And so we, we went back to square one and then you know, I just said, you know, we got to focus on one thing at a time and just treat them like dominoes.
And so using that my, my wife and I talked and we met with other people that were in the business world that had nothing to do with plastic surgery and banking and accounting, and said, Well, you know, what, what does it take? We ask people, you know, what does it take to open a restaurant? What does it take to open a hotel?
My wife's family was involved in publishing and we asked, you know, what do people do in, in the publishing industry and in newspapers? And so there was a lot that we gleaned from. How do you want to write the business plan? And so I would say that the first thing you have to have in mind is what is it that you do that's great or an individual unique skill?
And then talk about how you do that because a lot of people don't know how somebody makes sushi or what's involved in creating a hotel space or a car dealership, right? And so but people who do that in their industries and people like us in aesthetic surgery understand our services. And so we wrote that stuff down and we, we created a blueprint and a flow for these are our skills and then how are we going to deliver them?
And then we created a patient flow, and then we created a volume and we assigned a volume to that patient flow. And that built a projected revenue cycle. And so, like I said, I didn't know any of this by residents here by training, and some of it I gleaned from different areas and books. One book I would be completely remiss if I didn't mention by name was a book called Traction by Gina Whitman.
And a lot of people that start off on this pathway I think run into that book at some point. And it talks about how to think about your business and it talks about how to build around that and put the right people in the right seats. And so that was something that was new and foreign to me. And we rolled all that stuff up into a business plan and then, Ask people what we would need.
And I took as much as they would give me . And then with that, I tried to spend as little as I could out of the gate. And, and that was very, very challenging. Because there is that uphill climb where you're being busy, you're, you're doing things and the bills have gone out, but accounts receivable haven't come back in, and it all ends up being okay, but you don't know it's going to be okay.
Until that happens. And so you feel a little bit like you're rolling a ball up the hill and you're getting close up to it, and then every day at the end of the day, the ball rolls all the way back down to the bottom again. But you know, so those are the things I think that we learned.
And I, I think that what we, we figured out is, is that there's all these different categories and we had to learn what the categories are, and we had to learn how to be more organized. And then we had to learn where we were going to spend our time, what skills we had, and what skills we didn't have.
And so that helped us hire a phone person and helped us focus on the clinical nurse. And then as volume grew, we needed people that could coordinate with our surgery, planning, the calendar, the patients and collections. And so all of a sudden, three people grew to five and then to seven, then to nine, and then to 11 as, as the volume of work expanded in that direction.
And so I think the first thing was understanding our business and then understanding you know, a value assignment to things that we did. And then from that just being logical and saying, Here's what we think we can generate. When you start off out of residency, that's very difficult and you just have to kind of assume and try and understand market values in your geographical territory.
In my case at least, I had the benefit of, of four years of practice, albeit not on my own but at least an understanding of on an average, you know, month and a quarter and then year what I could do in terms of volume of cases. And so that was particularly helpful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Were you going to stay in reconstructive when you went out on your own? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Were you still going to do recon and dabbling cosmetic, or did you jump and just go, That's it. I'm doing cosmetic now.
Steven Camp, MD: No. You know, I think that when I first started I had a very broad practice e everything from facial trauma and, and injuries and burns to breast cancer and facial cancer and tumor reconstruction with a mixture of some cosmetic surgery.
How did that work out? And it worked great, you know, and I mean, for the most part I made myself available and tried to take care of, like I said, one domino at a time. And I'm, I'm probably going to sound really repetitive because I think that's probably the thing I learned the most is, is that you can only do what's in front of you.
Your mind will tend to wander. And the better you can focus, the more efficient you can be, and the more you can actually do and more of that at a high level. So that, that's kind of what I did. And then eventually breast cancer reconstruction became a, a steady stream of, of referral to me and developed some relationships.
And so when I spent the first two, three years of my practice, I, I narrowed things down from everything to basically breast cancer and, and cosmetic surgery. And then as, as time went on there was kind of a decision to make because both required a significant amount of, of time and demands and the, the patients I mean, I think deserved you know, quality, undivided attention and ultimately made the decision that our volume and capacity for growth and ability to manage life and a schedule was better in the aesthetic arena.
And so we chose that and committed to that hardcore about three years ago. And so I think it was a gradual process. And so there was, you know, certainly an intersection of that being my interest. I did plastic surgery residency, like everyone that does plastic surgery. But then in addition to that, I did an aesthetic dedicated fellowship to further home certain specific skills and Take on a, a few little extras, if you will, both surgically and non-surgically.
And I feel like that made a difference for me early in my practice, allowed me to fast track high quality results to my patients. And then that became, you know, understood and passed around via word of mouth. And so there was my interest and then also then there's just what ends up happening.
So there's, there's parts, passion and parts your practice picks you as well. So and I think I could have fallen into other things such as breast reconstruction. But it just so happened that that this is the way it worked out and I've never looked back. I've been really happy with it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So when you went out on your own and you were still doing recon, were you doing it at hospitals, at a surgery center or at that point had you built your own or? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: No, and you know, and, and I'm still in that world.
So yeah, I definitely used hospital based facilities and hospital owned surgical centers. And there's certain cases in the immediate cancer setting in some of the larger tumor type cases that were in the hospital. And then there was different stages of care that were in outpatient surgical center.
And so it was possible to blend both early on at first. But then it became more and more difficult. And now 100% of the things I do is, is for the most part you know, surgical center based. They're all hospital owned surgical centers. But that's, that's the nature of it. And generally speaking, outpatient surgery.
And in that process, you know there's shared facilities, shared overhead, and that's nice and it's also reduced risk. But I also think that there's less ability to control the environment, right? And in particular with scheduling and discretion and to a certain extent Kind of clarity on instrumentation and personnel that might shuffle between different surgical services, whether it be orthopedics, plastic surgery, or general surgery.
So it became clear to me that I really wanted a, a very focused, dedicated team with you know, quieter, more discreet, pre and postoperative areas. Low traffic and easy access. And when you go to a, you know, a place that might have 10, 14, 15 operating rooms, there's many different patients there.
And so it became clear to me that if I could control that it would provide unique value and elevate the experience for patients. And so that started the pathway that my wife and I had of, well, It doesn't really exist, and we don't know that anyone's going to cater to these specific needs because we are just one surgeon out of 20.
So I think we needed to do it ourselves. And I think you know, like, like all good business questions, you know, you, you start with a good question. And the answer on what to do is always, it depends. And I think for us, it, it depended on what we wanted to do more than what was, you know, quote unquote the best thing to do or the smartest thing to do.
Certainly there's, I think, some degree of risk that we're taking on. And certainly we're starting over that process just like we did with opening our own practice with a business plan and new financial arrangements. And then, and on top of that, the real estate side of life and the kind of Quality assurances, inspections that go into normal office building versus surgical suites.
And then there's a whole set of rules and templates that go onto that there. But I think our experience with our private practice gave us, I think, enough courage to say that we're going to do this because it's what we want to do. And so you know, I think there's a great saying, you know, if there's not necessarily that job out there that exists, that's perfect for you.
So if, you know you want to have the job that you've dreamt about created creative, and I think that's very much entrepreneurial 1 0 1. And, and so, so what did you do?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you buy a building and build it out? What did, what did you do? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: We bought land. And so we bought, we bought an empty plot of land. I can, I can actually see it from the office I'm in right now, Uhhuh.
Cause it's adjacent to the medical office building that I'm, I'm in. Nice. And so we looked around town and, and trying to find a place that would work that would still be centrally located to where current patient base was, where our life was. And, and we happened to find one right next to the building that I'm in.
And so we went through the real estate process and built on to what was now you know accounting team and a legal team that we'd had experience with during our practice and added a real estate team. And then with that team, they, they gave us guidance on architects and builders. And we interviewed, you know, four or five different construction groups and several different architects.
And whittled that down from four or five to two. And then ultimately partnered with a development company that's been instrumental in a lot of project planning and oversight. And, and I think that's the key takeaway. You can't write it all down in a booklet or organize a timeline in a calendar and get every single thing in terms of regulation, accounting, legal building, and organize it on your own.
But you need to know that you're not going to know everything. And then you need to know that you can't be everywhere. And so learning how to expand and to delegate is based on effort, due diligence, but then ultimately that leads to trust. And you have to trust certain components and allow that to happen.
And if people are passionate about what they do there, there's a goal, there's a, there's a vision attached to what you're doing then you can start setting guideposts for yourself goals, if you will, and then tackle those again, same way, one domino at a time. So we happened to find our property and get going on our construction, and then there was this thing called, and so, you know, it's added timeline and some delays and stress.
I mean, I think that for our practice, we definitely were. Sidelined, I would say for a good three months, just in our current office. And so all of that translated into other downstream effects with our build project, which has been about a three year process. Oh wow. So what's the ETA on the new building?
Tell me. August 26. It's August, Yeah. 24 days.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh gosh. That explains, Cause I was thinking I saw on Instagram you were looking for surgical staff and I'm thinking⦠How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: We are, we're hiring and, and so, and, and I, you know, I think that's nicely into a lot of different things. It's like, you know I'll have, you know, people in our space, some, you know, Younger years and experience and more, but trying to tackle same ideas.
You know, who do you hire and when and do you want to build your own surgical center and, and how, what does that look like? And I don't think that there's any specific one way, but we're trying to slowly build out a team and, and do that. And so yeah, we're, we're adding clinical personnel. That includes recovery room nurses.
We partner with an anesthesia group that's going to help us with that anesthesia core that we'll need for our surgical center. And it'll be two operating rooms. And so ideally we'll invite other surgeons in the community that, that need access and are, are committed to that same idea of you know, high quality high convenience.
And I think it's going to be great because I feel like a lot of people that are in our plastic surgery world feel the same way. They want an area that feels like it's focused to procedures that aren't every day for other surgical centers, whether it be a facelift or whether it be, you know, complex liposuction with bad transfer.
So sometimes the equipment needs, they're just slightly different. And then the room set up can be monitored so it's more comfortable for both patient and surgeon. And I think that when you borrow Places that are, are designed for 98% of the other surgery that goes on in this world.
That's what you run into. You run into certain things that create access restrictions that just limit efficiency. You know, you always can work around them. There's never anything different and that's the way it's always been. But I think that's been the most energizing part is to feel like we are going to have that level of control all the way from entry to exit and the, and the patient experience.
And so, and when you turn that over to any kind of third party it's nice that someone else takes care of it and it's off your plate, but it's also frustrating when you can't control exit and arrival and departure times and discretion maybe to the level that you want to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What I hear over and over again from surgeons is it was a pain in the neck to develop the darn thing. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
The, the thing that saved them was having a killer nurse or somebody who really knew that surgical world to run that thing like a military operation that was very helpful and it, it was not the profit center that they thought it was going to be. However, the convenience and the efficiency of it was priceless.
That's what I hear.
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And you know, I, I think I've heard exactly the same thing. And to be honest I don't know that it will be profitable or even cost money. And, you know I, I think that for most people they say it's a break even, Right. And it creates enhanced convenience. And, you know, the response I would have to that is, is.
If you're not spending any extra, you know overhead that you're not returning back to yourself, but you're becoming more efficient, then you're just enabling yourself to do more volume of cases and capitalize off things in that way. So when you take all of the moving parts, like you said, you need a very highly skilled motivated, independent leader of those surgery centers.
And I feel like we've really found one that's great. So I'm excited about that. And that was actually our first most important hire for the new surgery center is an OR director. And, and they're taking a very lead role in interviewing recovery room nurses, circulators. And so it's become a very team effort.
And it, it, it allows us to do a lot of different things and we're allowing ourselves to have access to interview nurses in different people while I'm operating somewhere else. And then we can all convene and with the interruption of covid, we've all kind of learned how to zoom and do other things so we can really catch up and, and do a lot of things kind of in parallel that we didn't use to do because they were just weren't traditional business practice.
At least not for us. And so we've kind of borrowed some of those, some simple survival tactics and business hacks from Covid and tried to integrate that into this. And then I think. You know, the thing that we learned early on is we couldn't do all of our own accounting. We certainly didn't know the law, the legal ins and outs of what's required for different things.
And so we, we learned, you know, how to find people that we thought we could trust and, and delegate appropriately. And, you know, it's never perfect, but I think it's the only way to go. And I think that it is impossible. You are rolling that ball up the hill by yourself. If you do it by yourself and then you, you have to, you have to figure out how to build a team.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And would you say that your biggest challenge just staff and trying to build team building, would you say that's your biggest challenge? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: It is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Any tips, Any tips on that one? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Yes. I think number one is, is mostly patience with, with yourself. Because there's, there's all these moments where you, you lean back on things that you did and you go, Okay, I want to do this differently.
And then you try something differently and it creates a different set of new challenges that you hadn't anticipated because you just didn't know. And so number one is to be patient. And then I think the second thing is to try and understand how all this stuff works and I came across this as well and my, my trying to learn about business and what made people successful is people talk about finding the right situation, or I need to find my right job in life, or I need to find my right partners or my coworkers.
And I think it's really about development versus discovery, right? So people feel like they're separated from their perfect life, their perfect house or perfect job, maybe their perfect relationship, whatever the case may be. And they spend a lot of time talking about what's not right. Maybe, you know, their coworkers or not buying into the culture.
And, and so very rarely do people lead with this is where I need to develop myself. And so it begins with self-development and then, I translate that into what we want to do in our office. And we have people that have been with us for the entire time. That started from my own practice where they started as front desk, and now one of them is one of my two co-patient coordinators.
Oh. So her skills evolved in their time with us because she sought it out and, and we allowed it. And I've been in places where people hang on to the idea that someone's good at front desk, we have that, we don't want to disrupt that, so let's not rock the boat. Problem with that is, is, is that it creates the potential for any employee.
And the leader to get stagnant. And so if there're always a level of development you're trying to move them along to phases where you're moving on to, you're the boss and they work for you. And the relationship is based on permission and hierarchy. And then as time goes on, you can get to know what that person's strengths are, what their interests are.
We had another person was in our front office and told us after a year that she loved skincare and wanted to go to aesthetician school and didn't know how to do it. So we worked out a way to send her to aesthetician school. Nice. And that cut her hours away from being a full time employee. And then we had to figure out how to hire a second phone person and how she would cover.
Her tuition because she wanted to do it desperately, but financially needed resource assistance. And so she could have stayed working in front desk and we could have stayed isolated in a relationship defined by permission. I'm the boss, she gets paycheck from me. But the, the relationships both with my patient coordinator and now my new aesthetician are ones I didn't have when I started four years ago.
And they're valuable employees with loyalty and they're people that I know well beyond a technical skill and hopefully they know that about me as well. And so that ability to develop each other I think is what I've learned. And I've tried to use that as the fulcrum for how I'm going to be able to move forward.
I don't know what the next two years holds exactly. I don't know what seven years from now looks like exactly, but I do know that I'll need to kind of continue to enhance and develop my own skills as a leader as a physician, as a surgeon and that, you know, when things get a little bit stressful, tap into that resource of how am I developing myself within the office and are there talents in the office that I'm not tuned into or paying attention to?
And I think that would be maybe the biggest learning that I've had. So it's nearly 10 years of post-residency life now for me. And I think it is incredibly simple, but for some reason I never distilled it into the idea of development versus looking for the right position.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You already said it earlier, you create it, it takes so much maturity to get to that point, because when you're younger, you're looking at the external world saying, So what do you have for me?
And you're looking around, so where's the answer? And you realize, Oh, I get it. I have a vision in my head and I go out and make it happen. Right? There's nothing simple about that, but that it's all about creating, not finding. Gosh, that's a big deal. So it sounds like I going to plan are to, but it sounds like you bring in a partner, just bring in the outside surgeons to do some in your surgical location.
Is that the point? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And you know, I think I love the idea of having a partner and I think that I'm still trying to figure out what my business looks like for me. Much less try and tell somebody else that they're going to join some situation that's going to be great and perfect for them.
So kind of answer that question. I do have somebody that's going to come and share the office building I'm going be in. And, and we evaluated that concept of a, of a formal partnership and having him join the practice and the difficulty in evaluating their independent desires for clinic and available office space and phone personnel versus.
There are salary demands and overhead requirements everywhere else became a blocking point. Yeah. And I'm sensitive to that because in, in many ways I lived through that myself as, as a young surgeon leaving training, joining an established practice, which was very fortunate to learn from. And it, it, it helped me understand a lot of different concepts about the overhead that another person brings into the office.
And so our discussions led to a mismatch and where. Certain overhead needs would be relative from my point of view and that person's point of view. And so we just agreed to work together. And so we're going to not, you know, worry about losing patients via a, a website lead or a phone inquiry because of who staff is there that day or, or things of that nature.
But at the same token we're going to work together to build the infrastructure. The experience for patients is very much unified and the same. But the bank accounts are separate. And if he wants to take six weeks of vacation and I want to take eight, that's okay. And his own, his own independent practice and website and employees.
But at the same token it's something that I envision being, you know, long and lasting working relationship and. You know, ultimately we, we, we want the, the building, the practice and the infrastructure to grow in its value. And I think that that allows for people to partner together in something that has the value to it that is asset assigned.
And I think that there's a lot of difficulty in defining what a medical practice or an aesthetic surgical practice is worth when you just take a revenue norm, right? Because the same procedure may have different fees charged and different abilities and volumes on an annual basis from one surgeon to the next, and not necessarily is a discerning mark on quality, but it just makes the potential for there to be a mismatch on what one revenues assigned purchase value is.
May not mean the same thing in a, in another person's real worlds experience and you're overpay or underpay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But learning that now versus getting into a partnership and getting all legal and then finding that out, you're so much better off now. Just you already have figured it out. Like, you know what?
We're going to run our own thing. You know it's going to run their own thing. We're going to share resources and we'll leave it at that. I think that's a brilliant idea, quite frankly. Yeah. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And I, I think that it, it, it takes a while to figure out what you want your own rhythm to be. Right. And I think there are people that I know, great friends that are in groups of four, five, or even six plastic surgeons.
And it, it matches everybody's ethos. And everybody's okay with that structure. And, and that works. But for a lot of us, I would say probably 90% of us we have a very independent mindset Yeah. About what we want. And sometimes what we're doing for three or four years can change. And so having that flexibility is very important.
And not feeling either. Beholden to a certain financial restraint or held back because of, you know, being ultra conservative or risk averse is also important. So having that freedom is, is very important and I think it keeps people happy. And I think you can figure that out. You don't have to figure that out by hiring a partner and a young associate out of the gate.
I think that that's certainly an option. And that's how I came in. And I, I would say that the more clearly defined you can make that on ramp the better it is for all parties involved. So there's not the potential for score keeping and wondering if somebody should be in a better situation either via time, via financial resources.
Or, you know, freedom to pursue their creative interests because of a, a practice, a built in practice restraint. So it, it, it is highly complicated but I think that either one can work. But when, when I'm at my current associate, it was clear to me that the ability to control certain aspects of his office and patient flow just like it is to me was very important, right?
And, and so within that, we're giving each other space to explore that, do it in the environment that best suits us, and then ultimately our patients. So I think that will lead to the, the best relationship in that, in that way. And we'll see where this takes us and maybe more people will come.
I mean, so Fort Worth's not far from one of the largest airports in the world. A lot of people move here every year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, from, from California where I'm at.
Steven Camp, MD: A lot of, lot of Californians are coming and so there will be more people coming and more opportunity and, and, and we might find that we had so much fun doing this.
We want to do it again in a few years. But let's see.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So I know your wife is very active in your practice. Any dips on that? Because I've seen it go all sorts of different ways. How, how does that work out in your practice? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Mostly great because you know she is the better half. But I would say that you have to u understand what's that relationship like and for, for my wife.
And for me it gives us energy to think about work together. And that's not always the case. I, I know that there's a lot of couples I know in plastic surgery or in other professions in life where when work's over, they want to unplug and talk about something else. Whether it's outdoors, whether it's art, whether it's sports and that they, they want to compartmentalize in that way.
And I think if that is inherently the situation, it does create a little bit of oil and water friction that doesn't need to be there. That makes it hard to want to stay committed to the, to the work project. And then at the same time, it also, you know, contaminates the, the out of work environment.
And so I think that that's the, the council is just to try and figure out your personality. And for my wife and I, we started off thinking we would never want to work together. Her background was in cardiac surgery. We met when I did general surgery training, and then ultimately she stayed in cardiac surgery world until I decided I needed to go on my own.
And I needed a nurse and She was willing to take my best offer, . And so, so it became you know, something we identified via necessity. We didn't know it. And so five years later it's still this. And she became very, very hungry and passionate about things. Like the accounting side of things.
She became a student of marketing, right? She became very intrigued with the, the concept of social media and a website built. And for a lot of days after long day in the operating room. Those tasks are a drag. And when I get to go home and think about them with my best friend and sometimes over a glass of wine, it expands our creative juices, it expands our work hour potential.
And for us, it makes us feel connected. So even though we work in the same office, it'd be eight to 10 hours where I'm in the operating room and she's somewhere else. And so it, it allows us to, it's essentially our baby. You know, we will get to work on the same thing together. And it's, it's, it's the thing we both have to do out of out of work necessity.
And, and within that we found a new commonality a new layer of depth to our relationship that wasn't there before we started working together. And so that's why it works for us. When it's another layer that adds depth to what you're doing, then you can work with your spouse. When it creates conflict then you have to.
Be aware of why that is, and doesn't mean you can't work together at all. It just means you might have to be aware of what capacity creates the trouble.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I have found that it's really important to have boundaries with each other. Yeah. Like you do the surgery, she does the marketing, you do what you do Well, she does, she does well. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
I have found that that seems to be the easiest way to go about that. But it's also helpful not to have that kind of wife that like pops in in her yoga outfit and, you know, says hi to the staff and how's it going and how you do, what are you guys doing? And then leaves again, that causes a lot of havoc, often in practices because then the wife is this part-time fluttering around kind of thing.
And your wife looks very intelligent and committed and I mean, I think she's, she's doing it the right way. Just if you wanted make 2 cents.
Steven Camp, MD: Well, I mean that's definitely anyone who knows me well knows that's the secret to any success we have. And I mean, I think I'm. Pretty good at being a worker B.
But definitely that there's the whole world outside of this and I think when people try and do it alone, that's a huge problem. And then obviously, how do you find the right ways to build people? I was lucky that my wife was kind of there and built in and, and for us and our personalities, it works.
I will say boundaries are important, but I will say that I have learned that and she has learned that both of us have boundaries that aren't necessarily static. And so I would say it's a little bit more like counterbalancing. And so there's moments where we start tipping over in one direction and then we have to kind of auto correct.
And so boundaries are a part of that, you know, when you dip in and when you dip out. And patience is a part of that. So, you know, sometimes you have to knowingly let the other person dip in and know that you will too. But then, you know, there, there does come times where you have to make a lion sand and, and create that boundary that, that you created.
So for us that's it. It's, it's, it's a constant dance. And I wish it was as easy as everything that we drew up on a set play, but we're, we're just kind of going with the flow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've also noticed though, that you have a nice emphasis on surgical as well as nonsurgical. And can you just talk about your med spa? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
You gave it a name you put some effort into it. What's, what's the plan there?
Steven Camp, MD: You know, I think that plastic surgery was very surgery focused for a long period of time, and I think technology has brought a lot to the field of plastic surgery and improved outcomes for patients and in that space non-surgical services, the injectables skin treatments, lasers fat reduction have all blossomed in that ecosystem.
And it's I think successful people in aesthetics and in plastic surgery understand connection with patients and not every patient wants surgery. And sometimes maybe they want surgery later. And so I think that plastic surgery when I first was in my residency training, there would be a lot of debates with patients wanting something that was more lasting, maybe a more significant procedure with downtime, but a lasting effect versus something that's kind of quick in and out but doesn't give you the same quote unquote durability.
And then at what point do you assign bang for the buck or value? And I think that was the debate and I can't remember the last time that was a nonstop concern for my patients most of the time. Now it's about timing. Do I want to do both these things together? Do I want to phase into this over the next five years and then consider surgery or maybe not at all.
And so it's become part of the continuum for patients. And I like to tell patients and people that I talked about this, well, I think it used to be surgical and nonsurgical kind of either or, right? And I think now it's better together. And so and my practice has 40 to 50% of its financial revenue now comes from nonsurgical activities.
And it used to be 5% Good for you. Nice. Nonsurgical. And, and that's just because patients have grown up with us and then new patients are learning about us. And so we just have a larger funnel and we collect people from TW 20 to 70, 20 to 80. And then slowly you start gathering more people in different.
Compartments where maybe Botox alone in some skincare is what they want, or maybe they're 70 and they really, really want a facelift. And so the, the growth of our practice and connection to patients has led to that. 80% of my patients and are, are still moms. Mm-hmm. , you know, and, and to a certain extent even more than that, like, you know, if you consider, you know, grandmoms, but it's the moms of the moms that have come in and asked about facial stuff and that's grown.
And then, you know, the. Kids that were younger on, these moms that we took care of eight, 10 years ago are now in college and wanting skincare. And so we've, you know, grown with that. And now our nonsurgical services expanded to meet that. So within my office, we have basically a nonsurgical arm. But I consider just part of my aesthetic treatment for patients kind of, you know, the, the rejuvenation on the younger patients in their twenties and then, you know, maintenance and then rejuvenation.
And then after rejuvenation they stay on the maintenance train. And so that's allowed us to have a connection to patients. You know, term that used to float around I don't hear very much anymore was patients for life. And so we, we've embraced that concept in the office. And that's allowed us to think about what would we want for ourselves, our family members.
And so, you know, a perfect example of that is the Cyan laser. Everything we do is connected to skin. Everything. I do have a potential aging change on the skin or an incision area. And the flexibility of that platform to treat skin, take care of it and treat incision lines has been a real game changer.
And I feel like it's done something new and elevated for patients in my practice that I wouldn't be able to do just as a surgeon. And so I think that those things have, have made it where it was. And then I've gotten involved with Orange Twist, which is another med spa separate as a different entity from my practice.
Yeah, so Orange Twist. And you know, one of my mentors Dr. Stevens, and I thought it was his, I thought Stephens Orange Yeah. Who had been involved with HydraFacial and other companies for years came up with the concept of you know creating access to nonsurgical services in a non-intimidating way.
And, and I think we're now seeing. Explode. I mean, I think that there's many different quote unquote chains of med spas if you want to call them that across the country in Orange Twist is definitely, you know, at the table in that space and in, in that discussion. And we're one of the newer entries in, in terms of you know, having been around for a few years.
And then, you know, Covid interrupted California as a state, maybe more, as intensely as any place. And so there's 16 centers or so nationwide with Orange Twist, and 10 of them happened to be in LA and Orange County. Right. So I, I was fortunate to be early in on the, the idea of this med spa where we would basically take these services where people would have.
High impact, minimal downtime, and be able to integrate things like Botox and HRA facial and nonsurgical services into their lifestyle without having to go to a medical doctor's office. And so that's the, the, the concept and the premise. And it's been a lot of fun and it's, it, it creates a different space that is solely focused on, on all the things in the world that we can do that's non-surgical that allows them to be treated quickly and, and kind of more in their neighborhood.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Outside of the medical district model of Orange, is it the of scale, you're just a much bigger buying power, so you're getting supplies for a lot less than if you were on your own? Or are they giving you also marketing plans? Are they branding you are for, get that hanging around or being connected to grant students? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Well, you know, I, I don't, I don't know that I, I, I look at it that way. I, I think that there's a huge area for growth in nonsurgical services for sure that exceeds the growth potential for surgical services. And then, so, and what are we going to do to tap into that growth potential? And you want to reduce friction.
And so parking in a doctor's office that may have 15 stories and a, a parking deck and several layers to go through in a waiting room of surgical and non-surgical patients for an eight minute Botox appointment becomes a drag, becomes absolute drag. And so the orange Twist itself, just like any large company I'm certain has purchasing power, has other things, but that's all behind the scenes.
For me, it was a way to continue to grow and to stay on the leading edge of access to what patients were interested in and be able to extend services and care to them. And without creating that, that quote unquote drag of the doctor's office it's the same reason that I think I eventually became motivated to build my own surgery center.
So I think that had I never gotten involved with Orange Twist, I wouldn't have really expanded my horizons and thought about how I could change that part. I would've just accepted the fact that surgery happens at the surgery center and the office thing happens at the office. And been very binary in that thinking.
And so it became very appealing to me because it opened my eyes to something again that was very business centric but about consumer understanding. And so our consumer growth, our access in the aesthetic space is going to have huge influence from the non-surgical world. And we want to reduce friction and we want to make that easy for our clients.
And then for my postsurgical clients, I want to make it easy for them too. So if I can put an orange twist that's, you know, three minutes from their neighborhood and not 25 minutes into the medical district, why not? And why not expand that footprint and grow that? Learn from it and be able to do more.
And so I think that is what appealed to me about it. So coaching, I donβt know that it's going, you know, lead to some huge great windfall, but for me, the, the, the ability to talk to people like Dr. Stevens and Clint Cornell and other medical directors that are involved and. Work with other nurse practitioners, PAs, and estheticians.
It has enriched my experience as a, as a leader for my practice. And so for me it's the relationships. And I, I hope, I hope financially it does well, . Okay. But that, that was that, that was the hook. And so that's kind of been part of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What is the hook? The part where you get to now you have relationships with people who have been there, done that. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
So your learning curve is much less than had you had to do it on your own. Is that the point?
Steven Camp, MD: I think that there's a component to that. Okay. But no, it, it, it's, it's, it's about, you know, any kind of thing, any kind of relationships. I think that, you know, you look at the aesthetic society as a whole and people do, I think benefit.
From relational interaction with peers in, you know, having ability to kind of set aside different ways to reflect, think, you know, both backward and forward was what the appeal was. And, and certainly because of what we talked about. The explosion and consumer demand for nonsurgical services outpaces that of surgery.
That's where the opportunity is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I had Dr. Stevens on my podcast during COVID because it's the only time I can get a hold of the guy. You know, when he had his, when he, like all of us were sitting still, you know, that was, felt very helpful. And he, at that point, he had already had maybe five locations and I just, I'm, I'm so fascinated with the business model of that, but you know, we are running out of time.
Let's keep going cause I want to talk about your branding. Your last name is camp. You're very good at using that with the happy campers. And you have the and then you had the bow tie, The bow tie Babes. So tell me, what was that, what was behind that and has that been helpful to have some of that differentiating branding for you? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, I mean, I think we just, we're just like, well, you know, who are we and how are we going to share that story? And so the, you know, camp just comes from, it's an easy way for people to remember who they are seeing and who they're interacting with, right? And so and we, we want people when they come see us for a surgery, nonsurgical services to be happy.
We, we, we want to improve the quality of life. I don't think that, you know, a tummy tuck or a face lift is going to necessarily make anyone live longer. But it might make those years much better. And we all want nice things in life. We all want things like clothing or our housing environments to be comfortable to us and to be reflective of our internal style and some capacity and aging impacts that.
And so when I can make somebody happy, I tell people I have a couple requirements I want them to, to really look good. And so, and that's a barometer. And we have photography and we have beauty standards, and we have, Here's what's possible with surgeon, what's not possible with surgery. All that's very much true, but there's an emotional component to that too.
And that's part of what dictates success in aesthetic surgery is obviously you have to start with, you know, the right patient. So you have to have a good patient candidate and it has to be quality, technical procedure. And then it. It has to hit a certain mark, it has to make them feel a certain way.
So I tell patients if they look good and they feel good, then they're going to be happy campers. And that one just stuck. And it was just an extension of my last name. It was just simple. It was right there in front of me. It was not meant to be complicated but it was meant to be fun. And I think it's nice that you can associate that with the name of me, the surgeon and the practice.
And so it stuck. And, and it's also one of those things that can become kind of like a club. So, you know, you can become a happy camper. Anybody can become a happy camper. So, and so that, that just kind of stood out. And we kind of went with it and embraced it. And I think that that's just a philosophy that we approach our life and our practice with, And I think, you know, the, the patients that we take care of that want us to take care of them, Embrace that.
And so, so we went with that. And then part of doing training in the southeast is I became exposed to you know, different things like bow ties and so moving from Texas to North Carolina, I was around a lot of folks that kind of had a southern gentleman vibe to them and I was kind of intrigued by it.
And when you're you know, a resident, these short ties, they cost about half as much as a long time. And they stayed kind of clean cause I'm going to try this. And so I tried it on and got made fun of a little bit and I said, You know what, I'm just going to do it. And I, I, I rode with it through my residency.
And when I started practice I was one of the few people around wearing a bow tie. And so early in, in practice and when I do office hours I like to, you know, leave the impression with patients that it's an important event that they're there to see us for their. Surgical treatments and needs, and I want them to feel like someone is treating it like a special event.
And the bow tie sends that signal. It, it talks about preparedness, it talks about a level of elegance. If you think about going to a nice restaurant or a wedding, the bow tie is synonymous with something that I think I would like my practice to reflect, which is a, a level of elegance. And we feel like that's a, a good message and a good branding tool for us.
And it's authentic, just like camp is part of my name and the Happy Camper is, is part of it. The bow tie is part of our personal style. And then so I think when you blend all those two things together that's when the staff were all women banded together and just made themselves the bow tie babes, and it was very organic.
They did it on their own. And they've kind of taken off with that and, and run with it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's been a hit. Well, you have a great, or you used to have this great photo on your website, I think it was even on the homepage. And all of you, you were in your suit, bow tie for heaven sake, and then all the women were in black.
Yeah, it so cool. And it was on the stairs and you were all spaced out. And I got so elegant and then, and then I didn't see it, so I thought, why'd you take that down? That was really, I thought that was great differentiating for you? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: No, no. I donβt know that we've taken it down. I think it's probably just moved around and it's cycles.
So my wife's behind me. I don't know. Did we lose the tuxedo picture? Well, it was so eye catching. She's, she's doing an update.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. . Yeah, because I thought it was just so different than, than what you normally see, so. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Oh, I'm glad you liked it. We, I, I didn't know. I didn't know what people would think, but we had fun with it, which is what counted.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So when it comes to social media, would you say like, what are your marketing channels for attracting patients? Is social media the way to go or anything else working for you to get new patients? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: No, I, I think it's, it's a, it, you know, combination of factors social media was an early differentiator.
I think for me and it allowed people a little bit of access into the, the daily activities of, you know, what goes on in, in seeing patients, taking care of them. Some, you know better idea of a look behind the curtain of what surgery's like so they, they see how patients respond, not just the surgical sites themselves and.
Maybe a binder or a garment but actually sometimes having a conversation with the patient, like as they wake up or so it added layers of understanding for patients. So they could see the preoperative, the surgical side and the postsurgical result where it used to be just like, I understand that that before and after looks better, but the whole process is maybe very intimidating.
So social media took down a lot of barriers I think for patients and I think being young in practice it gave them access to understand your ability without equating that to. Being too young or too old or experienced, you just see it in action. And it speaks for itself. Anyone can say whatever they want to say.
Anyone can have an idea about what experience they think they want or what they think they want their doctor to look like. But ultimately, once they see something that matches what they're looking for it resonates. And so that for us stuck. And I think we stayed active in other places. Worked on RealSelf and answered questions and loaded photography and then built out a website with content.
And so, and there was no one specific magic bullet. And I'd say that as time has gone on, being consistent is most helpful. And so and then the other thing is There's a mixture of things from my life on there. So social media is different than my website. The website is very focused on outcomes.
And then the, the ins and outs of why a patient might want procedures and then instructions and so on and so forth. And then the social media channel is reflection of everything. And so I, I think patients like to know something about you. I think it takes some separation away and it makes the whole idea about talking to a physician less intimidating.
And I don't care who you are. Yeah, I don't care if you're a guy talking to a guy, man to man, or if you're a lady talking to another lady to meet someone early on and then talk about a physical feature, Be your nose, your body, or something like that. There's something about that, that's not every day experience.
So social media can take that away and say, Well, here's somebody that you know is like me. You know, they have kids they go on trips they look tired on the weekends sometimes. And you know, you can see us doing family photos. So just like anybody else, I have things that matter to me. I have things that, that I have to deal with.
And, and it, it, I think, makes that connection with patients more understandable. Where it used to be, you know, white coats, sterile doctor, patient, very, very. Harsh boundaries. I, you know, think you have to be careful about blurring lines. But authenticity I think is a word that comes up a lot with social media channels.
And so I think you don't have to have a ton of followers or anything else like that. I think be yourself. And if you do that, And you're consistently there. You'll have a base of, of patients that's comfortable with you. And I think that that can be great. A great resource. And then the website has probably been the most consistent thing.
You know, it's the tried and true, but I, I will tell you that it's taken us years to understand where patients come from exactly. But our volume of, of, of patient traffic and data still tracks highest through our website. And that's our greatest volume of information on procedural information to educate patients, and then illustrative information on before and afters.
So they still spend time there and it still ends up being. The destination point from which they tell us they come to us. But RealSelf is important. Google reviews are important. Being in the community is important. Being on social media is important. And so I think there is an ecosystem component to that.
It's a new layer of work that didn't used to exist. And I think anyone would admit that there's times when you need to. Give yourself a break even. My colleagues who are extremely active on social media you know, when we have separate conversations, talk about the need every once in a while to unplug and take a break here and there, and you'll even see them announce it on their social media channel because they're so active and so accessible that when they do take a break like that you know, if you don't put people on notice, it creates this strange panic.
So, so it's another variable to manage. But at the same time, I, I, I think it's a new reality. So and I'm sure that you have to deal with social media as well. I mean, you know, I'm sure you'd impacted what you do on a daily basis, Hasnβt it?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well, I use my dog. I, I saw your dog. He's adorable. And you've got the kids and it just shows that you're a well-rounded person.
You know, people want to see who are you, you know, And it really shows. So you're doing a good blend of educating as a surgeon, but as a husband, a father a dog lover. Yeah. So you're hitting lots of points, interest points that we consumer, cosmetic patients like to hear. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. Well, sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So my last question would be, tell us something that we donβt know about you and doesnβt relate to you having a 50/50 Surgical vs. Non-Surgical practice.
Steven Camp, MD: Oh wow. I think a fair number of people probably wouldn't expect Spanish to be my first language. Are you? Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. So my mom's Columbia. And you know my last name's camp because my dad's got, you know, the most kind of British type background from South Carolina. So he's from South Carolina, but my mom's from South America, so it's an interesting kind little background.
And it was fun kind of growing up with those Different kind of cultural perspectives. But that's all I've ever known. And I, I think that surprises people because they expect, you know something different when they see the last name camp. But that's true. It's a very much part of who I am.
You know, I have a strong Latin heritage, but you know, also my dad's side of the family has not, not a single Latin bone in their bodies that I can tell. And so you know, I got to learn a little bit of language from my mother, but unfortunately all my bad dancing comes from my dad. I saw you dancing.
Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry about that. . That the other thing I think is, is that you know, I've been a lifelong Cubs fan cause I was born in Chicago. Me too. And so Go Cubs.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I still have my Cubs hat and people out here, but it says C because my last, my name is Catherine, so I go with that, but it's really Cubs.
Steven Camp, MD: There you go. Yeah. So, you know, I thought we'd never see them win a World Series and, you know, low and behold a few years ago they pulled that one out. So that was.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The Chicago fans are ridiculously optimistic, you know, and they'll, they'll hang in there forever until something good happens.
Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. So I've got a book at home called, Wait Until Next Year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so funny. Ah, well, thank you so much for being with me on Beauty and the Biz, it's been an absolute pleasure and everybody that's wrap it up for us this time. So if you've got any feedback for Dr. Camp, you can certainly head over to his website, it's www.CampPlasticSurgery.Com.
A big thanks to Dr. Camp for sharing his journey on going from recon to solo practice buildout.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βRecon to Solo Practice Buildout β with Steven Camp, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#solopractice #stevencampmd #drstevencamp #campplasticsurgery
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Rivkin has a 100 percent non-surgical practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "100 Percent Non-Surgical Practice by Surgeon β with Alexander Rivkin, MD."
Why would someone go through years of training to be a facial plastic surgeon, only to drop it and focus on non-surgical techniques?
Dr. Alexander Rivkin is a trained facial plastic surgeon who founded Rivkin Aesthetics in Los Angeles.
Since 2003, he has specialized in state-of-the-art NON-surgical aesthetic procedures that compete with the outcomes of plastic surgery, delivered in an intimate and luxurious setting.
On this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, Dr. Rivkin explains his journey from surgery to non-surgical procedures as well asβ¦
- Building a name as βThe Bestβ by focusing
- Running a practice with a CEO and COO
- Staff issues being the biggest challenge
- Avoiding coat hangers (lasers you donβt use) in your office and more
He also tells an incredible story about watching the destruction of Ukraine (his mother country) and wanting to help and how he got an entire plane of medical supplies safely to them.
Visit Dr. Rivkin's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
100 Percent Non-Surgical Practice by Surgeon β with Alexander Rivkin, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and Dr. Rivkinβs 100 percent non-surgical practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to get them more patients and more profits. Now I'm very excited about today's guest.
It's Dr. Alexander Rivkin of the Rivkin Aesthetics in Los Angeles. Now since two, three, he has specialized in state of the art nonsurgical, a procedures that outcome in luxurious setting. Huh? So Dr. Rivkin received his BA from Columbia University and his MD from Yale University School of Medicine. Now he completed his internship in general surgery from the University of California, San Diego, as well as his residency in otolaryngology and head and neck surgery.
Now, Dr. Rivkin is also assistant clinical professor at the UCLA David Geffen School of Medicine. He also conducts lots of clinical trials. He publishes all lot and he serves on several pharma advisory boards. Now, Dr. Rivkin also is involved in several philanthropic efforts. One of which is spearheading. Aid to help war torn Ukraine.
And we're going to talk more about that and his 100 percent non-surgical practice. So Dr. Rivkin, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Thanks. Really appreciate being here. That's it's an honor. Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So I always like to start with, what was your journey because it's never a straight line private practice, just a quick concise journey to get you to your 100 percent non-surgical practice.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Oh gosh, for me it wasn't, it wasn't much of a, there wasn't much of a journey when I got an after training, I, I knew that I wanted to just, I wanted to open up my own place and I wanted to be, be my own boss.
And so the journey, my journey was actually less from academia to private practice and more for private practice to a little bit of academia. Oh. So once I established myself in my practice, it was at that point then that I, you know, my practice is. Stoneβs throw away from UCLA. And at that point I reached out to UCLA and became involved with the medical school.
So yeah, so for me it was, it was that. And then at that, and then, then, you know, started doing, you know, publishing started teaching and all this kind of stuff. But first thing I did is establish a practice in a very, very small place.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, and so you went out on your own right away, but in a very competitive arena, especially with a 100 percent non-surgical practice.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Well, the interesting thing is that, and it's funny because people talk about how timing is everything and it, timing was really everything for, for this. From in my case, I was very, very fortunate because it was it's a competitive arena, but in two, at the time when I started, which was like 2003, 2004, this art field was just, it's just starting, you know, there was, there was really, there was.
Clearly, clearly this was going to explode in my mind. There was no question about that, because the demand was just, I mean, every, you know, the demand was obvious and the, and the O and the ability of non-surgical treatments to achieve the goals of, of patients was indisputable. And so I thought, well, you, you know, you have these products that work, you have patients that want this and that, you know, such an enormous population that wants this.
There's no way this is not going to be, become huge. And so, so it was, it was, it was clear that, that this was going to be a, a, a, you know, a big thing. And you know, and so jumped each kind of jumped on it. And so from that standpoint, there wasn't a lot of people who were specializing specifically nonsurgical aesthetic treatments.
Right. You know, some people were doing this and plastic surgery or doing this in dermatology, but then. You know, so I was one of the first, I was one of the first around that I knew of, I didn't know anybody else who, who had specialized, who did this a hundred percent from the beginning. And from that point, so from that standpoint, I was, it was not that difficult because my competition really wasn't just, it wasn't very strong.
Like there wasn't anybody who had a good website at the time. Like nobody, nobody had any. And I was like, okay, well, clearly people, when they look for this kind of treatment, the information bottleneck here is obviously Google. And that was clear in 2004. And so if you can control. Google, if you can control your, your rankings.
You're, you know, you're, you're suddenly the premier practice, no matter what, no matter that you've been open for six months, doesn't matter. And so from that standpoint, there wasn't a ton of the competition. Now I think it would be more difficult to open a place. It's tough. Cause everybody's learned those lessons.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. I got into this industry in year 2000 because I was all about injectables and lasers. So I happened to go to a dermatologist who was a very well-known cosmetic dermatologist and she did specialize in cosmetic. And I remember how awful the service was when I was one of what 40 patients she saw, but why a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
I, it was just a joke. I, I remember this industry is going to need a lot of help when it comes to marketing customer service understanding the patient with a credit card versus an insurance card. And that's exactly why I got into it. And, and what's funny is nobody was doing the, like the plastic surgeons were not doing the injectables.
They didn't want to, they wanted to do the surgery. And there were just a few doing actual the non-surgical. So I thought, huh, that's interesting. And now it's really turned on its head. Yeah. So, yeah. So are you, do you still do surgery or no? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: No, I haven't for a very long time. I haven't for a long time because I just, I, I you know, I, I just, it, it seemed to be too big of an opportunity to pass up, you know, I'd rather, and to me, and it's funny because there's different kinds of people, right?
There's people who want there's people who get a kick out of breath, like, oh, I can do anything. And then there's people who get a kick out of depth where like I'm the best in the world at this very specific, very narrow thing. I like, I'm the second category. I didn't know this about myself, but now I guess now, but now it's pretty clear.
I'm in the second category where I just want to be, you know, I, I just want to be the best in one very, in one specific narrow thing and have my niche that. I'm just kind of that that's, that's what I dominate and that's, that's what I, I like to have. And then I refer to other people for other things, and then other people refer to me for other, for my thing.
And to me that that works nicely. Because then I'm and it also, I'm not stepping on anybody's toes. I'm friendly with everybody because everybody wants to be my friend because then I send people out and I want to be everybody else's friend because they send people in. It's great. It's all kind of kumbaya and everybody lives, lives happily ever after.
And I like that. Good for you. You know? So that's what I've been doing. So I've been, so that's why I kind of, I didn't want to be kind of, you know, oh, I can do anything. I I'm like, you know, I'm God I'm I, I can't do everything I can do, but I can certainly do the nose better than, you know, better than, than most people.
And, and I find that to be very satisfying.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Somewhere that you were the innovator of the nonsurgical nose job, is that. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I mean, I, I'm not, it seems, I don't know. I mean, I, I, I had not heard of anybody doing this. So when I, in 2004, when I did this, I had not heard of anybody doing this before. And I looked and I looked on, you know, on Medline.
I had not heard of anybody doing this procedure. And now of course, most likely all these, these kinds of fillers were available in Asia before they were available here. So there, I'm sure there's people that, that were doing it in China, but not, not anybody that I knew around here. So I, so when I kind of figured out the procedure and I went to media with it, they were like, oh my they're like, wow, we'd never heard of this.
This is like, this is completely new. And I figured, okay, well, that's a good indication. You know, this is not something that people cause this is as soon as they started doing this, I'm like, I, I realized that this is truly something, something fairly innovative, because this is something where the only way to change the Contras and nose before this procedure was through surgery.
And I realized, this is the first thing that this is the first option, this first alternative that people really had the surgery. And so if this had been around, if any, if people had been doing this before, I think it would've been, it would've been all over the place. Like people would've spoken about it, media would've, you know, kind of gobbled it up.
Wasn't the case. When I went to media, they were like, we'd never heard of this. This is, this is amazing. The possibility for this, they recognized right away. And yeah, it was.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So do you have patients that are so keen on nonsurgical that you do it and then do they come back again and again, year after year, although having said that, I realize you also do a permanent nonsurgical noise job. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
What the heck is that?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I think, I mean, It's an interesting, so, okay. So the two, two kind of components to that question. So on with the nose specifically talking about the nose some people do choose to come back a few times for temporary nonsurgical, rhino advice. Do you using, you know, ha fillers like BMO or lift or any of these kinds of things and those and that that's okay.
Cause I use very tiny amounts and so it's not like I'm, I'm, I'm shoving a whole bunch of filler into underneath the skin and, and, and then, and building upon and making the nose into like changing the contours and nose in significant way, doing very subtle contour adjustments using fillers. And so if you do it a few times, you got to, you know, you wait until like the material.
You wait until the material mostly goes away and then add to it and it's fine. But what I use now more often what I do is switch from temporary to permanent filler. And there's a permanent filler called bell fill. That is very nice. You know, people, people are freaked out by permanent fillers because the history that these fillers have had in Europe and Asia and, you know, like fillers with that are that weren't very well that weren't the ingredients.
Weren't very good. The, there were side effects that were pretty, pretty bad. And so people are afraid of putting something under the skin that. You know, potentially years later can have some sort of problems I've been using this particular. There's only one, but there's, so there's only one filler that's FDA approved.
That's permanent, which is methylate Beil. There's some people that use silicone and I, that I'm a little scared of Silicon because I, I don't, you know, I've, I've seen other things, but it seems that with the right technique, you can use silicone effectively. I, I don't love silicone in general because it's, it's very, very liquidity and for something like the nose, I want structure and I want lift to the tissue.
But I've been using Beil for over a decade and I've honestly had more problems with hyaluronic acid fillers than I have with Beil. It's been a remarkably safe filler for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And when they seem permanent don't they mean like five years or something? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: No. The studies have gone out to five years, so they can only say five years because that's where the, how that's, how long the, the follow up is for, for the studies.
But met Accolate we know is a material is not something that's dissolved by the body. And so it's a, it's an inert plastic that we use other, you know, in, in ophthalmology and, and other surgery that sticks around. So I know that the material is not going to go anywhere, but the way that the filler works, unlike other fillers, the way this filler works is as a collagen stimulant as a very specific collagen stimulant.
So it's little tiny granules of this, of method faculty and. Co collagen builds up around that. So the grape seed and then the grape field comes around that the material lasts forever under the skin, but your reaction to it is different as time goes on. So as we get older, we know, unfortunately we don't stimulate as much collagen growth.
Right. And so, so the effect, the aesthetic effect may change over time. Additionally, because the underlying tissues as we age shrink, right? And so we get bone loss, we get cartilage loss and fat loss and all that kind of stuff. So we change it's permanent, but we are not. And so after seven years or so, sometimes people need a little touching, but the material's great.
Gotcha. And I've done that. I've done that before, when people come back like eight years later, 10 years later, even, and they do a little touch it and they finally go away. They don't come.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So I also noticed you have like every laser on the planet and I would like discuss consulting, demo up a whole new marketing plan to, to cater to that new market. So any, any tips and strategies on buying lasers and actually making them profitable? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Sure of don't that may not some of my advice, but I guess as physicians we have a certain relationship to reps, so drug reps and, and, and mostly we deal with, with drug reps and there is a certain amount of.
We, we, we know to take the information they present to us in a, in a somewhat skeptical manner, but yet we know that they're telling us it may be, they, they may be spinning it a little bit, but they're, but they're fundamentally, they're telling us the truth, you know, drug with drug groups. So whether for, you know, for, for drugs in the hospital that we use for, you know, for sick people or it's, you know, bot to sports, stuff like that, I mean, there's spin, there's all there's angles and all that kind of stuff, but they're mostly fundamental explanation.
That is not the case with laser reps, as I have learned in the hard way, the really hard way. It's just, so my advice to people is don't listen to a word that any laser rep has to say about anything mm-hmm . I, I think that the information that they present is, is. You know, I've, I've really been UN I've been fooled, you know, and I've been fooled and I have a bunch of very expensive coat hangers, like, you know, door stops lying around my office.
And it's been, and I really, you know, there's certain companies that are considerably more aggressive than others in terms of you know, I mean, I signed a well there's one company and I can, you know, I can say the name or not say the name. Don't say the name . But anyways, there's one company that shall remain nameless where, I mean, the guy, the guy like wanted me.
I mean, he went to my house at like eight sign paperwork. I mean, this dude practically sat on my head in order to get sign these paperwork.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Quota.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Boy, did he have a quota? And then yeah, it's just, it was, it was a big mistake. So I think that you really have to understand, you really have to have a realistic understanding of what your practice, what your practice is, who your practice attracts, what those patients want and what those patients can afford before you make the judgment to plunk down a whole bunch of money for an expensive machine.
And I think this is some, this is I think, a big part of your consultation the value of your consultation to these practices, because people just don't understand that, you know, these guys come in with their shiny, with their shiny little, you know graphs saying like, look, doc, you'll make your money back in.
Like, you know, in two weeks it'll be awesome. You know, this is going to be the easiest thing in the world. And then like, you know, three years later, you're sitting there with a machine that nobody uses because you didn't realize that that's just not the demographic of your, of your population.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I would certainly survey my patients before I buy the thing, because the, the reps will look at it from their own perspective. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Like we're going to attract new patients for you. But the machine's not going to attract new patients unless you know how to market the darn thing, but you have to first make sure your patient demand is there. Like it's internally, already there organically. So you can feed off of that. Otherwise those payments start racking up immediately and you didn't get the five new patients a month to pay for that payment, like you said, and oh, it gets to be a real yeah. Challenge, especially for a 100 percent non-surgical practice.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: And I would say, you know, in addition to that, and I'm sorry to, to, to, to sound. Kind of like, you know, to sound like the, the laser reps or they are, you know, the devil incarnate, but they do funky, funky stuff. There has been known that they, some of them have been known to generate calls to people's offices of patient, like not true patients inquiring about a particular laser that they then, so they have, they have a bunch of people call the office inquiring about some, you know, whatever laser that is, then you think, oh my God, this laser is in big demand.
And then suddenly they pop up and you're like, Hey, want this laser? And you're like, yeah, I've got big demand. Right. It's really important to do your actual survey and really like, you know, there's no don't cut corners.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well it's been very well known that if you can. If, if you tell the surgeon or the doctor oh, the, the staff says, oh my God, we got, you know, a call about this laser with your 100 percent non-surgical practice.
All they need are about four of those calls. Then the surgeon says I'm in, you know, obviously, but what I would suggest is. Go ahead and survey. It's so easy nowadays to survey your patient list, you can do it with you know, survey monkey. You can do it on Instagram. You can literally get on there and say, Hey, I'm thinking about this laser.
What do you think? I mean, I, I would really look at your patients, not the sales reps. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Absolutely data there's these days, getting data, gathering data and analyzing data for about all sorts of a kind of aspects of your practice is so easy. There's no excuse not to do it. And it's the only way to be a good business person.
Cause we run businesses. You got to da gather the analytics.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Otherwise, you can't make a good decision without your numbers. I am so surprised at how many make decisions based off of anecdotal evidence. Whatever this, you know, they, I say to the, I'll say to a surgeon like oh what's your top procedure?
And they'll look at the staff, what's our top procedure. Do they all have a little discussion about it? And I said, no, you guys come on. I want to see the numbers, you know? Yeah. It's true. So looking at your practice, it looks to me like I'm trying out how you have positioned yourself. And I would say you like the, of the me, because you have you around with like estheticians, you've got serious NPS, PAs RNs and you the cosmetic surgeon.
So is that, was that done on purpose or why such high level revenue generators working with you? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I think what I want to, well, I mean, you got to make, you kind of make a choice at some point. And, and this is something I would go back and forth about in, in various, in, in various kind of ways, like, well, do I want to open a satellite place in, you know, in Redondo beach with a storefront?
You know, do I want to do that? Do I want to be doing walk-ins and stuff like that? I guess you, you kind of make a choice as to what kind of clientele you want to attract. Right. And so, and I guess part of that choice is what, what you're comfortable with in terms of marketing how do, how you market and, and how, first of all, how confident you are in, in marketing and figuring out how to market effectively and a, and B what kinds of marketing are you.
Comfortable with. Right. And so I felt, again, I felt at the time that the, when I started the practice and early on the practice that the internet was like, okay,
this conference locally. And I had a guy and there's, and I was listening to all these, these, these guys stand up and speak. And I, I was just in the audience.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Were these surgeons, or were they marketers? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Surgeons. They were all surgeons. And they were speaking about, and there's one guy that came up to speak about marketing one, you know, your practice.
And this is a guy who was, this is a guy who was legendary. I mean, he has, he has, you know, surgical stuff, but named after him and you know, all cetera. So he's been around for a very long time and he came up and he said, Newspapers are great for me, starting out, newspapers are great for me. Mid-career newspapers are great for me now.
There's I see no reason change direction. I think the internet is a fluke and it's, you know, whatever. And I looked at that and I heard that and I said, I'm going to all in on the internet because these guys just don't get it. They don't understand what today, what, what what's going on in, in the world today.
And so, so that's why I kind of, I thought, okay, I'm going to go in. I'm going to attract my patients online. I don't need a storefront. I'm going to be, I'm going to provide them with an experience that they've never seen before. My patients I'm going to provide them experience. They've never seen before in a physician's office.
And so I'm going to eliminate the, the glass and the counter. I'm going to have an open kind of, you know, open, sliding window that you have to knock on. Yeah. None of that, none of that crap. And so I'm going to make them feel like. I'm going to make them feel like they're in a Lux in a luxurious place. So I'm going to, but in, in to do that, you have to control.
And again, this is kind of like, I don't know. I guess I, I grew up, my mom ran, my mom was a facialist, so she had her own salon in Boston. Right. Okay. And so I grew up telling my mom how she was dumb and she needed to do all these kinds of things to make her salon better. And she said, you know, she, and she's like, what do you know?
You're just a, you're just a, you know, silly teenager, go, go do your math homework. Right. And so now I get a chance to like actually, you know, to actually execute when I, when I'm what I've been thinking about for a while. It's I, you know, and I felt like I could do that where I could present a luxury experience where I would control every aspect of the patient's experience at when they walked through the door.
So where they sat, what they saw, what they, what they smelled, what they felt how, you know, what the interaction was with the front desk, you know, all that stuff like, you know, was I was prepared to hyper manage in order to make a good experience. And, and I, I think that worked. And so from that standpoint, I, I had aestheticians.
I started with like, you know, estheticians and nurses and, and, and me as an injector, but I now don't do very, I mean, I have a, you know, a little bit of aesthetician stuff. Really very, very minimal because it's just the real estate of the rooms I need for more, you know, as a business, you know, you count on what's the profit per hour per square foot, you know, and it just didn't make, actions just, didn't don't make any sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So you, but you, you didn't just go to RNs. You also jumped up to NPS and PAs. So is there a strategy for why you're using such high level people to run lasers and do injectables, or is there a reason for that? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: In California, PAs and, and, and NPS can do their own good faith exams. So that's helpful so that they can be, so I don't have to see all the new patients.
That's nice to my mind. That's the only advantage between. An N P PA or an RN. I I've seen excellent injectors in all three categories. So I, I wouldn't, I would never say that one, one is better than the, than the other. And, and I just choose, I try to choose people that I used to be. I choose chose people that are experienced only because I didn't want to train them.
I, I backed off of that. And I actually would, rather, because again, I've had, then I I've brought in people who were experienced, but who didn't understand. My way of doing things and not that my way is necessarily the best way, but they had bad habits and it's hard to, it's hard to untrain bad habits. So now what I choose is more likely just people who I rec over and over time, I can kind of recognize who are the people that are the go getters, who are the people who want to invest energy and time into their own development, into becoming the best they could possibly be, who are hungry for really just the next thing like achieving the next, like who are, you know, want to be excellent injectors who want to be teachers want to be leaders who want to be like, who, who, who are excited about this, about this stuff versus the people who kind of come into the practice and just want to be pet fed patients and then clock in and clock out.
I, I don't want any of those people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, do you encourage your I'll call them ancillary staff. Do you encourage them to build a following, like let's say on Instagram, on their own Instagram like how are you working that out? Because sometimes it goes the other way. You have these people with great drive and they stick, stick around long enough to learn, you know, a really good business sense from you really good injection techniques from you. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Yeah. And then they off on their own, you know, andβ¦
Alexander Rivkin, MD: So know and that's happened to me. It's true. And that's, that, that certainly has happened to me. I, but not a, not a ton, not a ton. But it has, but it certainly has happened to me. And I think the benefits outweigh the risks, I think overall for me anyways, because I present them, I, I just present them with a working environment that that's really pretty that's really, I, I mean, I think is pretty awesome.
You know, I present them with a working environment. That's very low key. That's very much drama free. Where everybody gets along where I don't yell at anybody. I don't, you know, I'm like not, I'm a calm guy. They get, you know, we, we, people who we get them lunch, you know, very, very often we hang out and it's.
And we're, and we're just good to each other. And, and we have, and we, we, and if we hire someone who is doesn't fit in, doesn't fit in their they're, they don't stick around. So we create an art, we take great pains to create an atmosphere in here that's very, very pleasant to work in. And so I think so.
I think it's not. So yeah, so I think it's worth it and it's, I think it's worth it to, for them to develop their own Instagram and develop their own their own following because it also makes it's, it makes them being invested in their own practice. And I think that's really important and I think it's Mo so it's a motivational thing.
And. And, and helps it helps the overall practice as well. So I think that's, I, I think overall, I think that's, that's really good. I think one thing I'm seeing in the industry, which is not so great is that, you know, social media's created some of the, some of the injectors around are really very prominent in social media and some of the younger injectors who are very ambitious, see that.
And they're like, well, that could, that should be me. I want to be, I want to be just like that. And they think it's easy, you know? I mean, you know, I'm good friends with Nicole Lowry and I talk to her and I'm like, everybody wants to be you. And she's like, they don't, they do not understand what it means to be doing this kind of thing.
How much work goes into. You know that social media ask aspect she's has like, she works and then she works here and she works again. You know, she's got two jobs because it takes a lot of work and a lot of dedication to do that, that, that social media thing. But the thing is, is that there's some companies that are taking advantage of this desire for NPS and PAs to be independent and presenting them.
They're like, and they, so I've had one, for example, who was got by, she, she was poached for me by one of these kinds of organizations. They're like, oh, we'll set you up, we'll have a doc, we'll have this, you know, we'll have this doc back you up if you need it and we'll set you up in a place, we'll take care of everything.
Here's the, here's the benchmarks, which you're going to hit. Here's what you're going to get. And they're like, and they go, they they're Google eye over the numbers because they've, they they're like, because, you know, and, and. I think overall they lose because they overestimate how much they can hit those benchmarks.
And then they, they don't hit the benchmarks. They don't make that percent. And then, and they're in, like they're in a room in a hair salon somewhere, you know, doing injectables. I mean, they're on their own, but like, so, you know, I don't know. So I see a lot of that and I see, so I see a lot of my colleagues losing good injectors to that kind of situation.
I think that's unfortunate. Cause everybody, I think everybody loses then, you know, the injectors.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well there, the those franchises or whatever those businesses are they're promising the, the freedom that everybody wants and the unlimited opportunity. What they miss is who's bringing in these patient.
You know, right. Cause they say, oh, we'll take care of the admin. We'll take care of all the paperwork. Don't worry about any of that. Yeah. Well, my first question is, since who who's doing the marketing, let's go brain, everyone in. And they look at me cause I I've had a lot over here too. My own injector went out on her own and I said, how, how, where the patients coming from?
She looked at me, she said, Juan, I, I assume my patients are going to follow me. And I said, well, are you sure? Like all of them are, cause it's not, it's never going to be what you think it's going to be. Right. She literally, I just talked to yesterday and she said, I'm going to have to hustle. And I thought, yeah. When did to think about that?
You know, so that's, Ooh boy, I don't know that. I donβt know about that business model because it always looks better on the other side, but nobody can see the inside. What do they say? Don't compare your outsides with someone else's insides or however that goes. It's just everything that looks easy. There's a whole bunch of work that went behind that to make that look easy.
You know? I think that's very true. Yeah. But I love the idea of how you're going to scale and that's how you scale. You have NPS or PAs who can see the patients for you. So that's, that's brilliant. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: That makes sense to me would much I'd and this is what I, I always thought after only a few years of doing this, my thought was that I would like to be, I mean, I want to be a brand and it's, I'm, I'm, I'm my own brand and that's fine, but I want to be a brand of brands.
Like I want to have a practice under my umbrella. Where there's independent brands that, you know, that do well. And so people know my overarching brand, but they really, but they come for this specific injector because that's, that's who they that's who bond. I, I was always skeptic whole about coming for, you know, to a particular, like, I guess there's certain patients that will come to a business for their, you know, injectables or, you know, laser services or whatever it is.
Right. But that's, that's not the patients I want. Right. I mean, the patients I want, they go to providers, they go to specific people. They make that connection, not to the business. They make the connection to the person and a person could be a brand, but is a specific person. So I like.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And they'll pay more for it because I don't need to shop around.
Yeah. Looking for, to save a hundred dollars. I need to make sure my Botox is right. Yeah. It kicks in when it's supposed to I need to know that you're not going to screw up my filler. Then I'm left with modules. You know, like all of that. I, I, I want them to know who I am, what I like. Like we, women, especially we don't change our hairstylists, like ever then same thing with our injectors.
We don't change any of this. If we don't have to, we've got our service providers that we count on. We trust, we like, they like us. It's all good. You know, it's just a really efficient way, especially if you're if you do have money, typically you are working a lot where you just live a busy life and you don't need to shop around.
I I'm, I'm a firm believer on what you're doing there. Like build that brand and the right people will come. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Yeah. I think that's super important because the other thing is you have to think about, I mean, You think about what are you earning per again, per unit time? I'd rather have the kinds of patients that where I can be efficient in my profit per unit time.
I don't want to see 30 patients in a day. I'm going to, I'm going to drop dead. Like I got two kids at home. I can't, I can't handle that. I want to see a small amount of patients where it's manageable and my time is compensated where, where it's worth it, you know, so I don't have to hustle.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So what I'm hearing is you want to build a brand, but then build like subdepartment under that umbrella or does that also mean you're, you're coming up with your prototype practice and then you're going to franchise it or move it out to the various different locations. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Oh no, maybe both kind. Maybe both. I haven't, I haven't. I haven't had other look, certainly the first, certainly a brand and then sub-brands underneath for sure. And, and, and the thing is, is that the way that works is that we help those sub-brands market because they market also cause the brand are, you know, I mean our Instagram account is a, is a, is a bigger account.
And so we can help market their, you know, each provider's sub brand through that Instagram account and or, and other in TikTok and whatever, whatever it is. And so that works for everybody involved, but yeah, I, I, I haven't it's, it is my goal to open couple of satellite places I've started with Beverly Hills where we have a small office and that's working.
Okay. But you know, everybody wants that 9 0 2 ones. Yes.
I think it's you know why I went there actually. My friends are over there. Okay. And I'm like, oh, I never have lunch with, you know, with, with Ben Tolay I never have lunch with, with some of these guys, I want to do this. So I'll go over there and I'm thinking, great. Now I'm there. I can have lunch with, you know, with Ben and, and other people.
And I call them up and they're like, dude, what are you talking about? We don't eat lunch. We operate through lunch.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He's doing a lot a lot, but that, but still at least you have, you're setting yourself up to have endless opportunities, you know, because this can go all sorts of different ways. But ask you this, what has been the most challenging part of being in private practice that maybe threw, threw you off or, or could throw others off? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Like what was been most challenging? There's only one answer to that question. Oh, only one ever. And anybody that thinks there's any other answer to that question has not been in this long enough and does not have the, the, the experience. And that answer is staffing. Always, always, always. It's HR. It's finding the right person for various, the, a variety of positions.
And the most challenging one by far to me has been finding the right person at the helm of the practice that is in that. Do you choose the wrong person and the practice stagnates? And it's like, and so like, and I've chosen. I've chosen a lot. Let's just say I chosen a lot of wrong people for that position.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And is the position like your right hand man? Or is it the COO or what is that position within your perspective? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Yeah, it's the COO and my right hand person. So it's, this is the person that runs everything in the practice. Well with the, the, and it organizes everything it does. Yeah. I mean, this is the, this is the person that analyzes, you know, that makes crunches numbers that figure out, you know, just understands, where's the practice going?
What's what are we doing? Right. What are we doing wrong? Where do we pivot to? What do we, what kinds of marketing efforts works? What kind of doesn't, you know, somebody like, like that, it's a sophisticated PO it's a, it's a position that demands a sophisticated person with an understanding of a variety of different things, marketing operations staff, you know, staff relation, everything.
That's really hard to find, and I've not only has the practice stagnated and hasn't grown under the leadership of the wrong person in my, in my experience. But it's driven me crazy because, you know, because I'll go home and I'll be like, just things aren't getting done. It's just, I say, I say, let's do this, everybody, you know, this person says, yes.
Okay, let's do it. And then they just, they just count on me, forgetting me getting busy and be forgetting. And then when I say, what about this, there's always excuses that they'd come up out. And so, so that's really, I think that's really hard is thinking the right people for the, for these positions and understanding just how now.
So now I have someone who's really quite good. I mean, It's immense, immense. I mean, PR my practice profits and I mean, here's how, here's how immense it is. My practice profits. Since hiring this person over the last year, I would say have quadrupled.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God. Quadruple because what are they doing differently that wasn't being done? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Because they suddenly are, they've managed, they've managed salaries, they've managed, they've brought staff salaries into under control bonuses. And I, cause I was, you know, I, I can't, I'm not, I'm not a micromanaging kind of guy. I'm not a detail kind of kind of person from that standpoint. And so I just kind of like promise things here and there.
And I, I set up systems that then kind of build upon themselves and feed and, you know, and, and bite into the bottom line and he's control. And, and this person is controlled expenses from like the, the overhead of the practice in a massive way. So. It's been, I mean yeah, it's been by far the best decision I've ever made in my, in, in the practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Now, did they take away perks that were already out there because that can be deadly? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: No, no, they didn't. They, no, no, that's I, that would, that that's something for morale that I've not kind of, you know, I, I, I would never want to do. I think they just kind of brought things under control that were not that were just unreasonable, but there is certain structure of.
Like there's a certain bonus structure that was kind of loose goosey, and it wasn't, it just that, but the majority of it was really there's less staff. It was less salary control. That's kind of, there was something to that, but it wasn't huge. The majority of it was overhead and renegotiating the con the kinds of them, the deals that we had with the major filler and, and toxin providing companies and, and also coming into, I mean, it's, it's all, I mean, I shouldn't lay all the, all the, I shouldn't lay all the accolades that, that he had his feet.
It, it was also that we were, we did we branched into research in a hard way and that's been, and that's become quite successful at the practice. And we've like clinical trials. Yeah. Clinical trials we've managed. So we, I managed to run the clinical practice and have several trials going on at once.
And that has been that that's been good because the, and that's the problem with clinical trials, right? It's a catch 22 on the one hand you can't, if you don't have the trials, you don't want to spend the money on salaries to hire the people that would be there for the trials. But on the other hand, you can't get the trials.
If you don't have the people that can handle the trial. And so finally we got into the situation where we have the people and we have the trials and it's all working out pretty good. But that'd say for several years to actually implement them, for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Cause I've known quite a few who have tried to pull that off and many very hard haven't been able to. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Yeah. Very, very difficult. And again, but again, and interestingly, interestingly enough, once again, the key is. Staff with, so with my, with my CEO, COO, I hired a head of research who was very talented, very good. And she managed to really make this work and that's been great. So it's those two key spots, key positions that have really revolutionized my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And just one last business question, just gimme one, your biggest mistakes that you from and others could avoid. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Ooh. There's so many, it's hard to choose . I mean I mean, I, the easiest thing that comes to mind of course, is hiring the wrong person at deposition, right? I mean, that's the biggest mistake. That's the biggest mistake I've, I've made, but O otherwise doing things that detract from the main core competency of the business and of the practice. Right. And so I was, I was low.
I was just recently tried to buy a building. Oh, and it's, I didn't have, I just, I didn't, I didn't have this, the, this, the infrastructure to be able to process that kind of decision. Well, and that was a large waste of time and it, it, it didn't work out and this a big, big mess, but So again, so it's get, yeah, so it's, I guess it's, it's getting out, getting away from the core competency of the practice.
So trying to buy lasers, you don't need trying to like, look into like, oh, maybe I should buy, you know, maybe I should buy a building when you're not like you don't have the people there to help you, me to really manage that decision effectively, that kind of thing. But that's really, you know, kind of becomes a waste of time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: OK. Now let's shift gears and talk about marketing. I can't figure out who your demographics are or do you have preferred patients because you do offer an awful of solutions for an awful of people. So how are you targeting? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: We're online, right? And so by being online, it used to be that by being, just by being online, you're automatically targeting younger demographic.
Now we're on social media. More than more than anything else. And so with social media, I'm targeting a younger demographic. I mean, for my procedure, for the nose that's a younger demographic by definition. And so I want to be on social media no matter what. And because that's the procedure, that's the most that's cause that's the signature procedure to practice.
Then I certainly need to have a big presence, you know, on social media in general. So, so my practice skews, yeah. Cross it skews younger, but it does capture. I try to capture, you know, all, all demographics, but I like skewing younger. I mean, and I mean the city, I mean, are, I mean, LA and a place where there's just, there's, there's a, a locally, there's a large demographic of younger.
People who are beauty conscious. And so that works.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Your website looks fantastic. And, and it looks like it's attracting, I would say the, you know, not the 20 year olds, it's probably the older people, but your Instagram is great job attracting probably the younger people in's world. I would think you could almost off of if you have only pick two marketing channels, I would say, get your website straight, get your SEO straight, and then just embrace Instagram.
Just embrace it. You can't anyone who thinks that they can live without social media in today's world, I think is diluting themselves because. People really the, if you think like a cosmetic patient, what's the first thing they say, like, who are you? You know? Yeah. Who are you? Do I connect with you? Do I even like you who are your patients?
You know, what else, what do I know about you? By the way your Instagram, you're doing a, your job on Instagram. I think you have 92,000 followers on Instagram. And for anyone who doesn't know Dr. Rivkin, he looks like a super serious guy, right? So , you have to check him on, on Instagram. He has this alter ego.
It it's dancing. It's funny. I mean, I was so surprised. I thought this is not the doctor. I know, but you know what? It comes off very authentically and very funny like the Kardashian thing where she would every day, you know, and that was so creative. Anyway. He's you have to check out his, I he's doing job on it.
So tell me that also is not happening by accident. I know what it takes to pull that off. So what kind do you have making that happen? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I have two full-time social media people. Yeah. And, and again, the reason about the reason for that is, is, is a hire. I, I, I hired a, a 23 year old who is, who knows that, who was great, who was like, she's she actually, well, she's Russian like me.
Well, she's, she's bill of Russian I'm Ukrainian. But she and she also is kind of like serious, serious, but, but she is very funny and she, like, she can edit video, like nobody else I've seen. She knows the trends she knows kind of like, and, and she's just like, and she can do it in a way that's that comes off very authentic to me because she understands me and she's very, very funny.
And so it's like, so people are like, oh, you're so funny on Instagram. Not, you know, she's really funny on Instagram and fortunately I can kind of ride along on her tail, but so it works, you know, is she collecting the music? Oh yeah. Oh, oh yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Music's really, really great too. It's very entertaining. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: It's all her it's, it's all her. And I, I mean, we, we talk about ideas and we talk about like, of course, you know, if we're going to do certain things, but she's really, she's in charge of all this stuff, you know, she does a good job.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How much of your time would you say is spent how many hours a week would you say you're doing it? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Oh, not very much these days. Not for thankfully. Yeah. It's just, it would just be too, it would be too crazy if I, if I had to do that I think I mean, seriously, like maybe three hours in a week. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: A day. And just don't you a, that. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: There's some people that have a very natural talent for this, right.
NAK has a natural talent for it. Subo has a natural talent for it. I don't have a natural talent for it like that. And I think those guys are, and I, and I think people need to understand that you're not those guys like try to be, and don't try to be like those guys, cause it's just going to, it's going to kill you.
So, you know, and, and I admire those guys so, so much for, for their skill at, at doing them. So, and I learn from them. I try to learn from them somewhat of, of what, you know, what works and kind of how, how they do things, but I'm not them. And I, I, I don't want to be there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, you, you Nyak, I donβt know how he pulls this off, but he will do like he'll do a walk in the park talking about collagen supplements and he is got 69,000 people that, and I'm thinking.
How is that possible? Amazing. Apparently I donβt know, what's going on out there, but that's amazing. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: It's amazing. It's amazing. And I think it's just like, he just has a way of connecting with a camera. And, and that's, that's UN that's unbelievable. And I think that's and kudos to him because he is also super nice guy.
So I love seeing nice people and you know, really, really succeed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you're, you're absolutely right about, you don't have to be the actor. If you've got the right person supporting you, she can make you look really good. Yeah. You know, she can add the music and the effects and the video editing. So that person, I think, is key in today's cosmetic practice.
You know? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Is there anything else you're doing because like is PR still a big deal? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: You know, that's an interesting question. I think that's a really interesting question. PR when I first started out was a really big deal for me. Because I knew that, so my formula and I had like a little formula in my head and I, I figured, okay, I have a practice.
I started this practice on, at this, on the second floor of a hair salon, you know, in, in Westwood village, it was in hopes that they were going to come upstairs in hope that they were going to come upstairs. Those hopes were dashed very, very, very early cause these, the hairdressers are not interested and I'm like, dude, I, I will give you Botox and free.
Just send me patients. They're like, ah, I don't know. I don't want too busy. Okay. So but yeah, I had 800 square feet and, and so I thought, well, who in that, who in their right mind would come to see me? Like in the spare salon? There's like, no, this is crazy. And so, but I, but I, I. You know, I, I, my, my formula was basically claim real estate online with a, with a, with a website that was better than anybody else's get people to the website by driving through, you know, by, by having good SEO and taking advantage of sites.
Oh, by the way city search, remember city search. Yep. City search made my practice cause I had a website and I had a decent website and city search crawled my website. And suddenly I was like, number one, Botox, Los Angeles. It was me. This is little 800 square foot office in the, his second floor of the hair salon, because I was because I was the best that city search could find on, you know, as a, as a, you know, as a.
And so, so yeah, so claim, so have real estate drive people to the real estate and then when they online and when they get there, provide them, first of all, an experience where it's a good it's, it's, you know, a good website, but also with indicators of legitimacy and the indicators legitimacy are of course media.
And so those, that was the formula and that was, and that word worked quite well. These days PR wise, I think is PR is important, but less so because of social media. And I think it's different now. Cause now it's like influencers and, you know, on live, but still, I mean, it's, it's, it's, I, I haven't, I haven't really had it very much recent, you know, over the last few years.
And hasn't worked super well except his content for social media.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, and collecting those logos, you know, the PR logos on your website. We still love that. We love the pictures, a little logos, so that's fantastic. Have you had any luck with influencers? I hear spotty things, spotty. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Very spotty. Yeah. People that you think are going to be like, you know, are really going to make, make things blow up don't and people that are like, you think are like, nobody's sinless, like stream of patients through the door. And it's just, it's hard to predict. You have to be able to, and this is one of the challenges is you have to be able to look at someone's an influencer's page, a see if they're real or not, like I'm, you know, see if their fans are, are local.
See if their fans are loyal, see if their fans follow their kind of, we see, think they're real, like kind of really actually follow the recommendations. And they, so, so yeah, just seeing if they're legit and are a good fit for you, I, I think is really important when you choose influencers. Cause you can really waste a lot of time.
Hopefully not money because hopefully people aren't actually paying influencers to do procedures. But you can waste a lot of time doing that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I do know a surgeon who on his patient intake farm, he literally says, how many followers do you have on Instagram? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I know people like that too. It's not a bad idea.
You know, I got to say, it's not a bad idea.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's another guy in, like in the Midwest that you wouldn't expect. And he literally has a whole page on influencers on his now bar. It says influencers. And when you go to the landing page, he's literally discussing what he's looking for in an influencer. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
And then he has them apply. So yeah.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I mean, it's a whole different, it's interesting. It's so interesting how this world is shifting so quickly. So it's interesting to catch, keep up with it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I remember PR because it was so new, everything was so new. I could call the news stations myself locally. I, I was in San Francisco and I could call and I knew the guides and I would say, Hey, what do you what do you think about. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Filler for cheeks or something like they were like, what? That's fantastic.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It was so new. And now, you know, what in the world can you possibly say, you know, that hasn't been said.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Right?
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so here's what I want to do. I need to talk about you and Ukraine and what you are doing to help that poor, poor country.
Now you're saying you're Ukrainian but I heard you say you're from Boston and where, so where's your accent. You don't even have an accent. So what, what happened? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I was not, I was not born in your country. No, there it is. No, I I'm from odea I'm oh, from Odessa Ukraine. I was born there. We came over to Boston in 75.
So I grew up in Boston. I was seven when I, when we came to. And we're, I mean, I say you, I mean, it used to be, I would just say, oh, I'm just, I'm a Soviet Jew, but you know, these days that's changed. And then I used to say, oh, I'm Russian, but that no longer do I say that I'm Russian, you know? Cause it's just, it's not, it's, it's just not true.
It's not something a, it's not true. And it's not something I want to be true. You know, I I'm Ukrainian, you know, Ukrainian Jewish. And it's been, yeah, it's, it's, it's just mind boggling. It's just, it's a, it's, it's absolutely incomprehensible and it's such a, such a waste it's enormous global waste of so much.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So let's talk about what you've, it's amazing what one person can do to make a difference. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: You know, I just kind try to do whatever I can. And I think that I try to leverage whatever. Things in my life I can leverage in order to make whatever difference I can. And so there's, you know, there there's a, there's a group here that, that collects stuff and collects you know, some medical supplies and that kind of thing.
And I, we collected some things and sent it over and that was nice, but it was very fairly small scale. A friend of mine from Germany who was a very prominent researcher and, and speaker in our field. And she's, she's lovely, Patricia OGL she contacted me and she said, Hey, you know, you're, you're Ukraine.
I'm sure you're very much, you know, watching what what's, what's going on. She said, I'm in touch with the Ukrainian medical, you know, the hospitals and the medical teams there. And I work with the medical students here in Germany because it's so close to, you know, to everything there. She says there's it's actually a funny story.
She goes There's things that we, we have run out of in Europe that I I'd like you to see if you have in America, you can ship over and say, oh yeah, of course, no problem. So we don't have tourniquets. And I thought, and in my mind, I'm Turing little rubber things that you put on your hand in order to draw blood.
Right. And I'm like, Europe is running tourniquets. That's crazy. So I called up McCasin and I said, Hey guys, I need a whole bunch of tourniquets to ship to Ukraine. You know, how many can you get to me? Like, you know, right away. And they're like, oh, I mean, they're like, we can get you half a million tourniquets.
Like, oh my God, that's so great. I'm like, get it to me right away. They're like, okay. I'm sure they thought it was completely insane. And so I called them Patricia and I said, Patricia, I can get you half a million tourniquets. And she said, What she's like, what do you mean? You can gimme half a million. I can get you all this kind of stuff.
I can get you so much. They they'll be there tomorrow. She's like, really? I'm like, yeah. And it's like, they're like, I'm like, they like 10 cents of pop, you know, it's, it's totally no big deal. She's like, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. She's like, I up something's lost in translation. So we figured out what she was talking about was, was tactical tourniquets.
And these are like battlefield thing that they're like, they're, they've got, so it's, it's, they're very specific piece of equipment that you, you for major wounds that you, you, you know, cut off, you cut off blood supply to, you know, to when you've had like a, a piercing wound or shrapnel wound or whatever it is.
And there's, you know, they're, they're more, they're not super, they're not super involved machinery, but they are a product that's, that's more involved than just a little piece of rubber. So those are so .
Catherine Maley, MBA: So was McKesson thinking you were talking about back on a journey kit or no. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: So McKesson thought, no, S I thought I was talking about the little piece of rubber for blood draws.
What did they said? And I said to McKesson, get me that little piece of rubber. So they sent me this big box of half a million things of rubber. And then I talked to Patricia and she's like, no, that's not what we're talking about. Of course they're getting like, use like left for a piece of rubber to drop blood.
That's not what we need. We need something for tactical injuries that, that, you know, it's very specific. And so yes, I had to send that back, but I did find, I was able to find a bunch of those specific things that they needed, and those are lifesaving pieces of equipment. So we managed to ship a several hundred of those over, and that was really nice.
And so I felt like, gosh, that's okay. I'm in a somewhat unique position where I have information from the ground and I can tailor the kinds of supplies that we can send. Through that information to make sure it's the most important things that they need. And so, but I'm like, but I'm one person, what can I do?
And, oh, well, you know, I'm a fairly big Allergan injector. You know, I'm very much involved in, I'm involved with the company, a trainer, injector researcher. I'm a, you know, KOL and I, I order a lot of stuff and I know everybody from top to bottom in, in, in the, and so I, I, I contacted and at some point there's and I was.
With the Ukraine because people, companies were contributing and they said, oh well we've, we've done all this, all this stuff like we've contributed, you know, several million bucks. We've, we've, you know, we we've stopped the sale of, of aesthetic supplies over there. We have, we, we back anybody within the company that wants to contribute.
We match those funds. Now this is, this is really. Impressive. This is really impressive. What you guys are doing. This is something that really people should hear about, because I never, I hadn't heard about that. They're really doing significant kinds of things, not just paying lip service, they're really doing significant things.
And I said, that's really impressive. What, what do you guys think about doing more? Because you know, do you guys want to do something with me? Because they know Patricia, so, so well, they she's very involved in the company a lot as well. I'm like me and well, we can figure out what people really need and then we can, we can, maybe you guys can help us really ship a large, large amounts over.
And it was not even like, I mean, they, it wasn't even a conversation. They were like, you say it, you tell me what you want to go. You tell us what, what you want to go and we'll ship it. We'll do it. I'm like, what's my limit. And they're like, There's not there's no, we're Allergan. There's no limit. I'm like, okay, let me see what I can do.
So managed to. So finally going back and forth and, you know, trying to find stuff we shipped over. Finally, we managed to ship over. 15 tons of water treatment equipment over into Goliaths, into Ukraine now. And the interesting thing about that is that that sounds like it's not like super critical.
Like they need other medical stuff more, but Russia is using access to water as a, as a weapon. And so they spike, they poison Wells, they they'll cut off water supply to major population centers. And so having that kind of water treatment thing is water treatment equipment is, is critical. I see. So I was very, very pleased that they could, I mean, that's a major undertaking to ship that much stuff over and they did it without batting an eye and to their, to their benefit.
I, I will, I, you know, it's.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So they didn't, they charter a 7 47 and you got to fill it up with as much as you could.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: It was more than that. It was more than, I mean, basically I, so I, yeah, so I, I thought it was a good story. So I, I sent it to, I sent it to median and I saw you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I watched Fox religiously,
Alexander Rivkin, MD: so, so fi so I was talking about it.
I'm like, well, how do I, how do I kind of basically what Allergan said is, look, here's our number, do it. Right. And so I thought of it, how do I make it? So I made, so to make an image out of it, I said, look, they're giving me this 7 47 to stuff over. Right. But it's a 7 47 is it's more than what I ship was more than 7 47.
You know, I think it was about, it was one and a half of those. So it was it was fantastic. And then, so now I'm, we'll see, I'm, I'm trying to do another one. I've located supplies. I'm trying to figure out how to get them over.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well also what was interesting was that, because the next question is, well, how do you get them to the right in the right hands and tell them that like you have to go through Poland.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Right. And so that stuff that I have, because again, because I. I, yeah, it's, it's, it's funny. It's funny how this works, because so here in LA, I know a an ophthalmologist who's also Ukrainian, who is doing a lot of work in this, in this space. And so I worked with her to some degree for, with, with some fundraisers and then she connected to me, to somebody else she connected to somebody else.
And those people have, are from made for more, more major organizations that have infrastructure on the ground, where as soon over, over there. So as soon as stuff hits, as soon as the material hits Poland, they've got the trucks going out. They've got the delivery systems all set up, they know where, you know, where the places are that need them.
Supplies the most in which supplies should be delivered. So that's, that part is no problem that those systems are worked out well. So it's worked out. I mean, I'm hoping you know, whatever I can do, I'm hoping just to, to, to do as much as possible.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And if somebody did want to help isn't there an organization called Hope for Ukraine?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: Hope. Yeah. So there's well, so I'm doing, I do a GoFundMe. And then, so that's so, and I we're using those funds to help, you know, to do defray any of the costs that are associated with trying to, you know, send as much as we can. And then also there's the organization that this or ophthalmologist that I was talking about has an organization called hope to Ukraine.
So it's hope. And then number two, Ukraine and they're they do, they do quite a bit also, and I'm affiliated with them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you back to much since you left after stem. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: I went back in, I went back in 91 and then actually it's funny, Allergan sent me to lecture in 2000 and I think 2012. Wow. And that was, that was lots of fun.
That was interesting to see all the, kind of all these, I don't remember any of it, you know, it's, it's always so little, so it was interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Do you still have family there or did everyone move to America? How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Alexander Rivkin, MD: No, it's all I don't have. I don't, I don't have family there, but it was, I went, but it's, it was interesting seeing Odessa.
It's a beautiful place, you know, park and cafes and you know, I mean, it's, it's a, it's, it's a nice place. I don't want it to stay that way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. All right. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being on and kudos to your work. You know, both in business and in philanthropic. Congratulations on that. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
If anybody, Dr. Rivkin, his website is www.WestsideAesthetics.com. Right, right. Why www.WestsideAesthetics.com and not www.RivkinAesthetics.com?.
Alexander Rivkin, MD: It is now click all. the, really the branding now I've I switched to Rivkin Aesthetics, I think that's. Yeah, but actually, but there was a, but there was a point to that where I wanted it to be not just about me.
So, and that's something, that's a point that people I think, have to think about. Do you want it to be just about you? Cause it's easier if it's just about you, but then it's harder for your extenders if it's just about you. So then's the, you know, so, but so now I've switched to Rivkin Aesthetics where I know that.
Under Rivkin Aesthetics that can still have those sub brands that work well, absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because frankly, in social media today, though, it's got to go with you. It's got to be your name. It's so difficult. I get thinking long term and like, how do you pass this off if your name's all over it, but did it, so you just have to think like, are you going to think short term, long term, but there, there are pros and cons to all of it, but anyway, thank you so much. How does this relate to you having a 100 percent non-surgical practice?
Okay, terrific. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz. A big thanks to Dr. Rivkin for sharing his philosophy and journey on having a 100 percent non-surgical practice.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the β100 Percent Non-Surgical Practice by Surgeon β with Alexander Rivkin, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#alexanderrivkinmd #drrivkin #westsideaesthetics #nonsurgicalpractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Jennifer Levine, MD went from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Brooklyn to Private Practice in Manhattan β with Jennifer Levine, MD."
A lot of talent comes out of Brooklyn⦠Jerry Seinfeld, Mike Tyson, Mel Brooks, Michael Jordan, Barbara Streisand and Howard Schultz of Starbucks, to name a few.
And so did this weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast guest.
Itβs Dr. Jennifer Levine, a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon in private practice in New York City, where she achieves βBelievable Beautyβ for her patients using surgical and non-surgical procedures. Love that!
I asked her about Brooklyn and she explained a lot of first generation immigrants came there to build a better life for their families. There is a lot of expectation to succeed from the parents, with the big one becoming a doctor.
We talked about the challenges of hiring the right staff, building out an operating room in New York City and where public relations and social media fit into her plan to grow.
Visit Dr. Levine's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Brooklyn to Private Practice in Manhattan β with Jennifer Levine, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Jennifer Levine, MD went from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. And I have a very special guest today.
It's Dr. Jennifer Levine. Now she's a board certified plastic or facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice. In New York city where she achieves believable beauty. I love that term believable beauty for her patients using surgical as well as nonsurgical treatments.
Now Dr. Levine is triple Ivy league trained, went from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan, having graduated from Columbia University, receiving her medical doctorate from Cornell as well as additional training at Lennox Hill Hospital, Manhattan Eye, Ear, and Throat, Hospital, and New York University Hospital. She's been featured in multiple major publications and TV programs that we're going to learn more about.
And with that, Dr. Levine, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Jennifer Levine, MD: Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm really excited to be here and kind of just chat with you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Yeah, no, I'd love to start with, how did you become a facial plastic surgeon and how did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan? Because most little girls don't grow up thinking that soβ¦
Jennifer Levine, MD: Well, I, you know, it's really funny because the first thing that I wanted to do is like to become president of the United States.
I think I was in the third grade and someone said to me, Know girls can't do that. There's no, there's no, there's no women that have been president of the United States. And I remember feeling very angry about that. And unfortunately, that hasn't really changed yet, but I guess after I decided that I wasn't sure if like being president was, was entirely possible.
What I really to do is like my main activity where I was little was. Sketching and drawing. And my mother had taken me to a lot of different art classes and I particularly like to draw faces. And because I grew up in Brooklyn, we also a lot of time on the subway and I find myself like looking at the person across from me on the subway and kind of sketching them and then maybe like fixing their face a little bit.
So I felt like that was, yeah, it was something that I was gravitating toward even at, at a young age. And then as I went through school, I really, I liked, you know, the precision of math and science. So I really did like scientific pursuits. So I felt like. This idea of plastic surgery combines like, you know, my natural ability and interest in, in art with kind the method and precision of math and science.
So I felt like incorporated everything that I really enjoy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's certainly helpful to have that creative side doing what you do. So how just tell us quickly the journey between fellowship to private practice, what kind of a jump was that or many steps in between? How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Well it was kind of a, you know, it's, there's never a straight journey, so it's always, like, I felt like the path wasn't really like smooth.
Like initially when I had to even apply to my fellowship, I was like pregnant. So I wasn't able to go on a lot of the interviews. And luckily I manage get a fellowship that was in, in New York city. And then unfortunately, I also decided that I was going to get divorced. So I, I kind of had to figure out, so here it was, I was finishing my fellowship.
Didn't have a job. I had a baby and I wanted desperately to, you know, just be a very aesthetic surgeon, but I also had to do things like pay the take child. So I. Was fortunate enough that my one of like my mentors and chair, people were like, okay, you can rent some space from me, like part time. And I was able to start a private practice and otherwise I was kind of like cobbling it together.
So I would take call. Where I could and just pick up some clinics, just so I had some while I was building and time, I don't, you do any reconstructive surgery really? Except if it's like someone has a torn ear load, but really my practice is aesthetics.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So you're probably sleeping a lot more now than. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Well, you know, it's still, as I said, like we were doing, we have this new construction, so we just built we bought the office across the hall during COVID.
So now we have this office and office that has a full recovery room and all that other stuff. So that's, that's keeping here kind late. So I don't know about the sleeping part, but I certainly love what I do. So I'm grateful for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's really interesting that you're doing a full build out and it's, it might not be Medicare approved. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Perhaps go, no, no.
I'm far with Medicare, so it's not nothing to do with Medicare.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So how difficult is it to get things done right now in New York city with like limited supplies or contractors. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: or, I mean, it's, it's challenging. I'm lucky. You know that I had a really I had a great team. My architect and my construction company were the ones who had helped me do this office.
So they were very like, mindful about that. And, you know, tried to only order supplies that they were making, made sure that they could get and that were in stock and available. So we weren't waiting around for things that were never going. So I, you know, I think with anything, like, you always need people to help you and guide you and it, it makes it smoother.
Yeah.
Well that, I mean, the, or was inspected on Thursday and we had zero deficiency. So it actually be up and running soon and the, it should be ready to go today. So. We're going to be good to go. Congratulations.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you. Your, your life will be a lot easier when you just walk across the hall than try to. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Get across that's what's I'm there's get the way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody, everybody. I know all the surgeons I've talked to. I can't think of one who regretted doing it. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: And it's not -
Catherine Maley, MBA: the center that you think it might be and how did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: You know, no's.
You know, being able to decide like how things are going to be, what kind of experience it's going to be for the patients and for myself. So that ability to kind of make sure that it really truly is me and what I to be, I think is what what's important to me. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So tell me, what is your team consisting of? Are you, are you growing. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Team or so we have to hire yes. We're in the process of like hiring more people, which as we all know, like staff issue for any, any business or I think business medical or otherwise, I think staffing always issue. So we're, we're in the of hiring more people ball. So. When you went into
Catherine Maley, MBA: private practice, were you surprised at the business side of it and how that might affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Like managing people? Oh yeah. Oh, I mean, you know, yeah. So basically, you know, I went to Cornell medical school, which was like ivory tower of medicine where we would like sit in like a solarium and we discuss like differential diagnosis. And they basically said like advertising was bad, like, and medicine were not, were separate and they were not at all together.
So I spent, you know, most of my training, just trying to be the best doctor that I could be. And I had idea and I think it's like a pretty steep learning curve. You know? It is. It is not easy. And I'm, I find no means an expert, you know, I'm still learning every day. But yeah, I'm not, I don't think like being a business person is something that's necessarily intuitive, but it does require a lot of like dedication and consistency and it's, it's, it's challenging.
So I think that people who have more of a business background definitely have a leg up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Like, if you had some ideas about this, like for well it's background, but it's also that EQ, that skills patients communicate with staff. How do you the leader without being seen. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: As a, a big, oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's like constantly evolving and that you're right. It's a huge. It's a huge skillset because it's not only about me, it's about, you know, other people and trying to shift your focus to, you know, how you really want other people to feel and understanding and connecting with people.
It's something that's really important. And it's something yeah. That I I'm always trying to work on. Yeah,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's a, it's a lifetime learn. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For every time I think I've got people figured out they confuse me. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Yeah. I there's lots of things. I donβt know. And I'm kind of more comfortable with that. Like I know that I don't, it all figured out and that at some point I might know who more, that I'll grateful for that, but there's. I have to cultivate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. I would say that that for you to stay open and humble is going to last you a long time, because I've noticed well, as people get older too, and they've around, they start closing up and they're not open to learning anymore. And so glad you have that open mindset even after going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan.
Jennifer Levine, MD: Yeah. It's important regarding -
Catherine Maley, MBA: The procedures you're offering, you have a really good plethora. How does that relate to you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Treatments and surgical procedures. How, what percentage of your practice is surgical versus nonsurgical? And is that how you want it?
Jennifer Levine, MD: So I think it's about like 50, 50 now that I do surgery and I do these noninvasive procedures and it kind of like fluctuates according to the, so there might be some months that we do more surgery and some months that we do more noninvasive procedures.
And what I really like to do is I kind see patients on continuum. So sometimes patients need surgery and sometimes they need not invasive procedure. So I feel like I want to offer the patient the procedure that's best for them. And I don't want to be limited by, is it surgical or nonsurgical? Like if you only have, so I don't really that for patients, I really offer individual and customized, well, that's going to make them look and feel their best.
And so. It's surgical. Sometimes it's not surgical and sometimes it's a combination. And the thing that I, I didn't realize about this feel is. How much of a relationship you have with your patients and really follow them on this journey, which has been so wonderful is that, you know, I've really seen so many people like over time and, you know, for, or family connections to a lot of my patients.
And I'm happy that, you know, I'm able to say like, you know, so. We started off with nonsurgical things and now they're ready for surgery and we moved to that. Or sometimes they're surgical patient, and now we're maintaining the results with some nonsurgical procedures. So it's very I think very rewarding in that way.
And it's not like one and done that I'm seeing the patient and then they're done with their procedure and I never see them again. So we don't really have that without practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love the patient for life philosophy that it sounds like you have. And I think in today's world, it's just an easier way to play this game. How did that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Doing the one and done thing I find that would be exhausting. And I know a lot of surgeons do it that way, but I just think it would be a lot more fun and easier if you keep these patients coming back for more and family and giving you good reviews and photos and growing this more organically. Yeah.
So give me, give me a mistake that you have made that you've learned from and you and that others could learn from without going through what you did.
Jennifer Levine, MD: Oh, let's I made let's. You know, I think not investing in your staff or not, you know, choosing the right staff. People are some of the big mistake that I've made.
So in the beginning, I really wasn't sure what I was looking for. Or you knew the wrong or didn't you? We weren't insane. So maybe they weren't, I'm not saying that they were like bad people or anything like that, but we weren't moving in the same direct. So I think that. Without the right staff people, it's really hard to have a successful practice.
So really investing in my staff is very important. And like my staff is like my most important resource. So yes, I, my patients are very important to me as well, but my staff or the people who here to support me every single day and I'm here to support them. So, I mean, I'm lucky, there's not really many people who.
Who are like rude or are not nice to staff members, but I would consider that like a big red flag.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So that would be something that I would tolerate. Yeah. And then have you brought on other revenue generators? How does that affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Are you the only I have expectation, but that's what we're trying to do is get some more.
We have like these other noninvasive machines that I don't have to run. So that's the idea that there would be revenue streams without, without me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because those machines are terrific, but they're time consuming and for right. How do they affect you in terms of going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: And I'm up in my state that they can be run by other people besides me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So I remember, in New Jersey, the surgeons had to do.
Jennifer Levine, MD: Yeah, that's crazy. So -
Catherine Maley, MBA: So let's talk about the competition and how that relates to your going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan. Apparently you're from New York, is that right? Yes, I am. Otherwise why in the world would you enter that jungle of. Uber competition.
Jennifer Levine, MD: So, yeah, it's the only, it's the only jungle. I know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I mean, you're not in Ohio, you're like off of park avenue, upper east side. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
It can't be more competitive. So how did you enter that marketplace? Or what was your plan to say? Okay, I'm here now. You know, where, where am I going to position myself? Did you have any strategy to that? Or just jump in?
Jennifer Levine, MD: So I guess. You know, since I'm always from New York you know, I kind of. When I'm looking at something, I don't, I, I, you can't like run a, if you're looking behind your back at what other people are doing.
So the only thing that you can do, you can, you need to go forward. So it's like, I'm when I'm doing something I'm not, I don't think about the competition. I just think about what I need to do to. To get ahead or do my best. So my kind of ideas I'm going to do the best I can. And I'm not going to, this is about a competition.
I can't, I can't control other people. There's always going to be, there's plenty of people who are very smart and very talented and. You know, there's plenty of out there. So all I can do is
years of school. So I was younger and you know, I graduated number one in my class in high school, which Cornell for mean. Everything that I've done is being competitive. Yeah. You know, but I can't, as I said, I can only do what I can do. And that's just kind of how I think about it. Like I'm not, I'm not really looking at what other people are doing as much.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you're, you're quite a smarty pants. Good for you. yeah. And isn't there something Brooklyn? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Really in the, what is that really?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Some heavy hitters come. Would you say you got a lot that experience? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Well, I didn't have another experience to, you know, to compare it to, but yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, Brooklyn is about like, if you're going to work hard and do your best.
So that that's what its, so it wasn't, that's like of, I think the mentality is that you were win. Right? I think that's.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, congratulations. So tell me about the patient demographics, because I think you're doing a lot of rhino, but you also do aging face. How do you, it's very difficult to market. It's very different markets, you know, very different people. So how are you that? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Well, I think that, you know, when I looked.
At the demographics of my patients, they're fairly evenly spaced. So we have patients of all decades coming into the practice. And I think it's cause we a lot of different procedures. Certainly the older patients might come more so, do more procedure than someone who is younger, but we kind have all channels.
This is what we have. So we're kind like encompassing all areas, you know, that's like, I guess the idea of you know, like a liberal arts education, like we want to know about everything and we want to strive to, to do that. So that's the, that's my idea. It's like, I, I'm not like somebody who only can do one thing.
Like I've always kind of. Like the idea. That's why I do surgical and nonsurgical. Like we treat people of different demographics things. I keeps things interesting. And I don't want to pigeon my, my myself in one thing. I I'm a person that have different interests. So I kind of like that, think it fits my person.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So we should talk about how you're using social media, because you're doing a good job. You've got 30,000 followers. And are you just sticking with Instagram? Are you jumping into the world and how does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Oh yeah. Do something on all channels because you don't really know how people are going to find you. And I have to be able to find. On multiple avenue. So it's just, obviously we might pay more attention to Instagram.
We, some things on much, all the, to certain extent, never where people are, make sure that we have something going on. We're going to concentrate our efforts more on certain things than others and make certain times we. Switch our strategy a little bit, but we kind of try to have it encompass everything. Cause it's not enough to be only one channel.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And do you have a social media team helping you and if so, what do they consider? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Yeah, so I have people who obviously like. In our office, we're going to come up with a strategy and then I might not do like the physical post sometimes I do, but we, we, you know, we have like, we do actively talk about it every week, you know, and come up with a strategy and a plan.
We have a calendar that we're post on. We make sure we send out a newsletter. So it's not, it is. It is scheduled. It is, you know, we do have social media meetings. So I, I mean, we're not spend like every day doing social media for several hours. But we try to least have -
Catherine Maley, MBA: How much time do you think you put in weekly on social? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Oh, I mean, several hours, I would say like between five to 10 hours still. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, you can make it look easy, but there's a lot of work that goes into that. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: There there's, there's nothing easy. Nothing's ever easy. You have to think about what itβs you, you're doing what you want to say and. Also like social media is really like a conversation.
So it's not only about what you're doing on your channel, but I think it's like very important to interact with other people, you know, and, and let them know they're doing a great job or you really, like, I learn a lot from some other people's social media posts or I see cool things that they're doing, or some of those results are beautiful.
So it's just nice to share, you know, and, and be positive to other people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you have a videographer that's helping you out or are you just doing it with iPhones? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: No, we do it with iPhones.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm starting to think you almost need a videographer in today's world because, or somebody who's good at video editing, you know, because you want to, the video is main video. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Newer is actually like really good. But the editing process is very important. Cause obviously you're using the video to tell story. So. If it's not edited properly, it doesn't tell that story in that same way. So yes, editing is very important.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you're doing something that I, I recommend to my clients all the time, which is do educational videos. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
And you can put them on YouTube, but also put them on your website. Just have them everywhere because people want to hear. Yeah, you you'll like doc surgeons say, everyone knows all this already. You can get it all on the internet, but they didn't hear from you, you know?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Well, they don't, but the thing is, is they donβt know.
Yeah. Some people know, but most people. Most people don't know. And it, even if they've heard it, they're certainly not an expert on it. So hearing it again can be quite helpful for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you know what I noticed can you just talk about your, like I was trying to think, like how does she differentiate herself being in New York city and I was on your website and it, under their procedures, it had up. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Eye drops and I'm like, sign me up.
Jennifer Levine, MD: I had no, yeah, they're amazing. They're amazing eye drops. So what it does is it works on something called thes muscle. So basically like the main elevator of the eye is, but there are other muscles under sympathetic control that can open up the eye. But unlike other medications that either.
Have stimulated those receptors, but either cause habituation or allergies up, doesn't do any of those things. So it is it's really good product. It doesn't hurt every day. It's great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I was taking some eye drops for nearsightedness. So you take some drops and then youβre you know, if you need reading glasses, it would take that need away. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Oh, for the farsightedness. Yes, I have heard, so -
Catherine Maley, MBA: I did it for over a month because I thought if I can get rid of all these contacts in the reading glasses, I'm good. But what was happening? It was, it was distorting my farsightedness and my nearsightedness. Yeah. So I donβt know if you had, like, I had to do it a lot longer to make it like, even out, but it just wasn't working and I, yeah. Don't know much about that.
Jennifer Levine, MD:. It works right away. So it starts about 15 minutes after you put it in. And the peak effect is that two hours and last for about eight hours. So I have used this drop and it's great, but you can just, you see it work right. So it's not like you have to wait.
Catherine Maley, MBA: so the point is, is its opening up your eye. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
It's making it look wider and brighter. Is that the point?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Yeah. And bigger. Cause it's yeah, they're great. Yeah. I, I need that. Yeah. So everybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So let's talk about PR because you've done a really good job. With the media. I'm sure some of its paid some of it's not some of its connections. Like how, how did you handle this PR and is it still a viable marketing channel for you. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: I've been for in that?
Because I have lot industry relations. I mainly work with those PR firms. So I'm. Paying for that. They're so some of these things, I work with a PR firm of these other companies and they get media things. So but now that I office, I actually get. My own PR, but that's not something that I've otherwise done.
It's just, we relied on these other connections that we have with these other companies. And we've been fortunate that they send editors and other people, or they videos. They do all that stuff. So that's very lucky.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I often recommend for people who want PR I say, start with the medical societies and the vendors. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
They all have their own PR department. So, you know, piggyback off of them first, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So wait, I had a question about that.
Jennifer Levine, MD: Would you say -
Catherine Maley, MBA: PR is, is as good or better than like, let's say trying to work with influencers and social media, like, do you think in today's world, you can just do that on your own.
Or, or you need sophisticated PR agencies to help. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: I don't have the few, if I, to a certain extent done it by for a, I think it's possible. But I think. Like any industry, there may be a certain like pay to play effort that I don't know about, but after if I try my own PR, then I'll get back to you and let you know if that, if that's be the case, have you worked with influencers?
Yes. I think influencers are kind of like a mixed bag at work with it's an influencers that have been great and some influencers that have been that. So I think it's a little bit of a.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So they're let, please tell them something. That's very interesting about you and it's some it's relative of yours.
Yeah. Who, who are, who is your cousin? How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: That was. So we got together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: well, I'm thinking that is amazing. Yeah. I didn't know. He grew up in New York city and oh, you know. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Every, and I was, oh, did go to my though. I know that counts, but OK.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So do, what else is interesting about you? That's not about Adam Levine, but maybe about you going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: I'm a, I'm a, a mom. So I have two beautiful, accomplished stars that I'm very proud of.
So that's one thing. That's a pretty big thing. Yeah. That's a pretty thing. Let's
you know, I find it very interesting. That you know, that they're surgical, especially.
All right. So the majority of the aging based population, and I think that there's something about Probably some of this surgery under the male days that may not be completely what women want. So I'm kind of exploring that a little bit and trying to change that a little bit, because I think most of the time women, you know, really want to look like themselves.
It's not that we don't want to look more youthful or you know, have a change, but I think that. There's a real desire not to look artificial. And I think also there are some people that don't want to be like they appropriate. So I think, I think that as a woman, sometimes I'm to connect a little bit more to my, about that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, it's really weird. I got into this industry 22 years ago and I was in San Francisco and we had mega doctors, like we had Jack Ousley and Brun Risto who are like infamous for facial faceless, but you can see these facelifts a mile away. And you know what I learned the patients wanted at that point in time, the patients wanted people to know that, that they spent a lot of money. How does that relate to going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan?
Jennifer Levine, MD: Right. So I that's interesting. I'm like a logo. Right. Kind of like a logo. It was assign well, right? That they didn't care if they looked tighter. Both. I agree. But I think the time that, like, I think times are changing probably.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'd rather have a nip and tuck every year than a major overhaul every decade.
Right. You know? Right. This is mean to me. Yeah. So I, I just, I love that you're growing your practice organically and growing it from patients who come back again. And again, I, I just think that's a really smart move in today's world. So good for. Yeah. So any words of wisdom to anybody coming up or anyone working let's say in a hospital and they're thinking about going out on their own any, any thoughts on that?
Jennifer Levine, MD: I think that you need to ask people for advice and it's very hard to like, do this yourself. I don't think it's intuitive. So I think you need to ask for help. You know, when, wherever you can. So one of the things that we didn't talk about that I did that was helpful to me is I joined this organization.
I'm actually not doing it anymore, but I did do it for a number of years called the WPO, the women's president organization. Good. And was business organization. So we.
And everybody had a different business. And we would talk about like the challenge that in business and someone, or round that specific, there were questions, questions, and then there are points where you could give advice, but you had to give advice. In a specific way, like you had to say, you couldn't say you should do this.
You had to say, if I were you. I would and I was very lucky in my particular Harvard school were really, really
in this. So these. I didn't acquire this knowledge on the, I, I did invest, you know, time and energy into like, learning more about these things. And that was extremely into how, how I thought about my practice, how I thought about growing my practice. Don't think that as a physician, any of those ideas were.
Really explained to me. And I wouldn't have thought about the things in the way that I did without that kind of support and information and framework. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, in my world of business and marketing, we call them masterminds and everyone's read, think and grow rich. And mastermind is the whole thing about coming together collectively listening to other viewpoints and perspectives.
It's that perspective. That's so darn important. So I highly recommend everybody have some kind of outside consult.
Jennifer Levine, MD: Who's you need, I mean, you need. This is not like this. Isn't like, do it yourself. And you're, you're not going to figure it yourself. Like you need some help and it's going to take so too long to figure it out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, like you, like in today's world, you've got to get there a lot faster than you, you know, before itβ¦
Jennifer Levine, MD: It some time to, for everyone to figure it out because everyone's journey and path is like a little different. And I think that we have to be accepting that this is not. It's not instant. It's going to take time.
We want it all to fast, but it may not be fast. And that's it's has to authentic and in the right way, just it take time and it takes more time than any of would like, but right, right. That's just what it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it, everybody. That is our episode for today on going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan.
If you would head to Beauty and the Biz and subscribe. So you don't miss any other episodes, if you've hold of you.
Jennifer Levine, MD: So they can reach out to me on Instagram, @drjenniferlevine or, you know, send a inquiry to info@DrJenniferLevine.com or office number is (212) 517-9400. And we love to hear from you..
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, terrific. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz. A big thanks to Dr. Levine for sharing her journey on going from Brooklyn to private practice in Manhattan.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βBrooklyn to Private Practice in Manhattan β with Jennifer Levine, MDβ Podcast.
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#manhattanplasticsurgeon #womenplasticsurgeon #drjenniferlevine #jenniferlevinemd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Sam P. Most, MD is a career plastic surgeon at Stanford University.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Career Plastic Surgeon at Stanford β with Sam P. Most, MD."
Some surgeons are just not interested in business. Thatβs why a career in academia appeals to them.
Instead, they can write, teach, speak and research their favorite procedures because they donβt have the added responsibilities of running and managing the ins and outs of a solo private practice.
Thatβs how it is for Sam Most, MD, a board-certified facial plastic reconstructive surgeon at Stanford University School of Medicine in CA.
Dr. Most is division chief and fellowship director in facial plastic reconstructive surgery, and professor in Stanford departments of Otolaryngology β Head and Neck Surgery.
We talked about the benefits of working for Stanford (no managerial headaches), as well as the drawbacks (Stanford had him take down his own website).
Listen in and decide what makes more sense: solo practice or academia.
Visit Dr. Most's Website π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Career Plastic Surgeon at Stanford β with Sam P. Most, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Sam P. Most, MD is a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice β what your patients are saying", as well as business consultant to surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's guest is Dr. Sam Most, who knows a lot about being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. He's a board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon at Stanford University School of Medicine right here in my neighborhood in California. So, Dr. Most is a division chief and fellowship director in facial plastic and reconstructive surgery, as well as professor in Stanford, departments of Otolaryngology and head and neck surgery.
Now, Dr. Most is a leader in the field of head and neck plastic surgery. Having traded thousands of patients trained, and having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. Hundreds of doctors taught internationally and leads humanitarian efforts domestically and abroad. His efforts have been recognized by his peers with multiple national awards. Dr. Most, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
It is a pleasure to have you.
Sam P. Most, MD: Thank you. That was quite the introduction and really the pleasures, all mine. So, thanks. So, psych so much for having me
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I'm really excited about this because you're my first full-time academic surgeon and you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. Because we usually talk to surgeons who are in solo practice or in multispecialty practices.
So, I'm very excited to learn. Number one, how did you end up being? I I'm always surprised at doctors who are facial plastic surgeons. I never even heard of that. You know, when I was a kid, did you come from surgeons? And how did that happen?
Sam P. Most, MD: You know, it's I, I'm not going to sit here and say that I was 10 years old and I had this epiphany that I wanted to be a facial plastic surgeon.
Because that just, that just wouldn't be true, you know, it's but, but when I look back at, at the things that really excited me when I was a kid, it, what what's happened is totally made sense. But you know, I just really first knew that I really liked science and I really wanted to help people and I wanted to be a doctor.
And then you go to med school and you realize you're, you know, you really like being a surgeon. And then you decide, you know, for me it was, I really liked the head and neck anatomy and all of that. And then as we, as I did my training in head and neck surgery, I really enjoyed doing reconstructive and aesthetic surgery.
And then it just was sort of a gradual thing. But the things about it that, that I alluded to that seemed to make so much sense when I think back in my life are that, you know, I really have always loved doing things with my hands and have always built things and loved doing that kind of work. And I've always had an interest in graphic design and photography as well.
So, there's a little bit of artistic side and this sort of brings it all together and with what I do on a daily basis. And, and I just feel really fortunate to be where I am.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Then, how did you end up at Stanford? Cause that was, that was going like straight to the top to having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. I mean, it's a great, it's a fantastic institution.
I came here for medical school. In way back when I won't say when a long time ago... Yeah. And I, I I'm from Michigan and I came out west and I just loved it. I loved the institution. I loved all this I stood for with, you know, innovation and science. And I went away for my, my training at the time to one of the top places in Seattle for, for head and neck surgery and reconstruction and aesthetic surgery.
And then I. Was working there as, as a, at the university of Washington. And I had the opportunity to come back. Stanford came calling and I just couldn't really resist. And that was hard to believe. 16 years ago, that I came back down to Stanford. Wow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now you have to forgive my ignorance in regards to having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford, because I'm not exactly sure how university medicine works.
Yes. Is it, is it CA are there any cash paying patients? Is it all insurance or reconstructive? Sure. How does that work?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah, you know, that's a great question. And I, I often get this you know, from, from folks asking me if I actually practice as a position because I'm at the university. The fact of the matter is I practice as a position five days, a.
And I operate three days a week. And I see patients the other two and, you know, research happens on nights and weekends with my research team. So, I I'm quite busy that way. And yes, you know, actually 70% of my practice is aesthetic cash pay practice. So, I mean, we you know, do the full gamut of surgical procedures here.
And right now, you know, more than two thirds of my practice is aesthetic.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's so interesting and how that ties in with having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. I had no idea. Huh. And then I also noticed, like I was looking around and researching you and I looked at like your Instagram and it looks like you're very heavy into rhinoplasty. How what's the percentage of rhino versus facelifts versus Bluffs or do you also do nonsurgical?
Sam P. Most, MD: I do some non-surgical work all the day. I'm so busy that I'm, I'm having my nurse practitioner do most of that, to be honest with you. And she does a lot of that work. I'd say that in my aesthetic practice, probably about 65% of it is rhinoplasty and 35% of it is aging, face surgery, meaning facelifts and a blepharoplasty.
And what have your brow lift?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Regarding having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford, are you doing a lot of revision rhino or, or primary or what what's that, you know.
Sam P. Most, MD: I'd say about 30 to 40% of my rhinoplasty practice is revision. Wow. And it seems to be growing. I get a lot of requests you know, prior to COVID I was seeing a lot of patients from around the world.
I think with COVID it's sort of. I get the requests, but I it's hard for folks to come here with COVID, although it's, it's relaxing a little bit, I think, with the entrance requirements, but I see a lot of folks from all around the us and it's just seeming to be something that for whatever reasons, a growing part of my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, to put it in perspective in terms of you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford, the average plastic surgeon will do less than I, 10 20 maybe rhino classes a year.
How many are you doing per.
Sam P. Most, MD: Oh boy probably around 250 so I mean, we're, I, I, 200 to 250, I think it depends on the year. You know, the last few years, I think we got up to 300 at one point. But I think we're back down to around 220 to 250 and. I haven't really done the math on it, to be honest with you, but when I'm doing six or seven in a week, you know, there's, you just kind of do the math on it.
I, I, there are obviously some weeks I take off, I take a little vacation every now and then, but.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, you're working with the most difficult patients on the planet. Like rhinoplasty patients are notoriously known for being, you know, very SPD about things. And, and, and, and I don't blame them. Like, they're, you know, they're looking in the mirror in the middle of their face all the time. Yeah. What, how, how have you had to, at this point doing this many rhinos (having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford!), you must have some systems set up to avoid some of the, the, the crazy that.
Or, or not?
Sam P. Most, MD: Well, I mean, yeah, I, I don't know if I use the term crazy so much, but I think that the, a lot of things happen with rhino posse. I think there's a lot of misinformation and I think patients come arm with a lot of bad information. And I think that a lot of it is setting expectations and understanding you know, which of your patients you're on the same wavelength with and you know, My system is that I really try to make sure I, I put myself out there in terms of what I think is honestly possible.
I do computer simulations for rhinoplasty 99% of the time, and it's a communication tool. And I can tell if somebody's. Desires aren't matching up. What I think is realistic for them or what would look good. And I think that they start to see that too, if I'm not showing what they want. So, there's a self-selection process.
And you know, I, I think it's all about communication. And I saw a couple of patients today who came back for second visits and. I encourage them to do that. You know, I don't want to book somebody for surgery after one visit, if there's any, if there are any qualms about what we're going to do, what our plan is.
And I think that it's, it's working, it's never a hundred percent. I, I still have patients where I kind of regret that I'd operate on them. Even if everything goes perfectly well. With the surgery, you know, and they're just, for whatever reason, they're just not satisfied with what we did and, and that can sometimes happen.
And I think that I I've kind of flipped it around to see really more as my responsibility than theirs to make sure that I don't take those folks to the operating room. And I think as a physician, now that I've got a few gray hairs I I've had, I've had 20 years of experience. Now this, this is my 20-year anniversary of finishing my training.
I can look back and think about where I've, you know, made mistakes and where I can do where I can do things better. And a lot of its patient, patient selection. It's such a big thing. It's one of the things that, you know, probably by the time I retire, I'll completely figure it out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, like give, give us some tips though and how that relates to you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
And what, what are the yellow or the red flags for you?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that if patients come in and, and you talk to them and you feel like you, you know, you're, you're not able. To do what they want. Don't feel pressured to try to accommodate that because it's not going to happen. And then, you know, if you, if you do that surgery as a surgeon, then it's, it's just going to get you into trouble.
I think that if you have a gut feeling about a patient that it's just, just not right, don't do it. And you know, I still have situations rarely now, pretty rarely where I, I feel like, you know, I, I, my gut's telling me I shouldn't be doing this. And If I get that feeling even up to the day of surgery, I'll cancel it.
And that's not ideal. Fortunately, that's pretty rare. Usually you can, you can figure it out before that, but sometimes patients keep throwing up red flags, you know, they, they kind of get through the system. You should talk to your staff. Your staff's really good at this. You know, if patients are really unreasonable or, or combative with them, but then they're really nice to you.
You know, that's not a good sign, you know, they, and. And, you know, you have to take the whole thing into context, understanding where patients are coming from and you have to have some empathy, but ultimately, you know, you take a patient and put them under the knife. It's really your responsibility to make that decision.
It's not theirs. They can't tell you to do surgery on them. This is elective surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How many rhinoplasty revisions, out of the 300 rhinoplasties per year will you do on one person? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: Of my own? My own case, well, or. Yeah. I mean, so I guess there's two parts to that question. One is how many revisions are safe to perform on a nose period. And, and I think that that's not an easy question to answer.
You have to look at the blood supply to the nasal skin and all that kind of stuff. But in terms of revising like a patient of my own, we all have them. You know, I think you, you, it's all about how confident you are. You think that you can make things better and how, how much you feel that. Something really didn't go right.
That you can improve. If you, for example, the classic example, somebody with an asymmetric nose and you take them to the operating room and you tell them up and down, it's not going to be perfect. And it comes out and it's pretty good, but it's not perfect. Now the question is, do you think it's not perfect because you didn't do something right?
Or just something. You know, moved in the healing process and you can improve on it, or is it just really about as good as you can expect? And if it's the ladder, then you shouldn't take them to the operating room, as much as you feel like you have to sit down and have a difficult conversation with them saying, well, remember we talked about this, this is as good as it's going to get.
I think that's where we are. I think we're at the point of limiting, you know, limiting returns. If you feel like, you know, looking at your off note, I think, I think I could have, could have done this and it probably would've been a little bit better choice. Not that anything was done wrong, but I think I can try this and it may help that person then.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. Yeah. I just know the rhino patients, I, I interviewed somebody. You would know him and I can't remember his name. It's like Constantine he's in New Hampshire, but I donβt think heβs having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
Sam P. Most, MD: So, cons Mark Stanchion is a friend of mine. He's a really good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He wrote a book on it (but not about having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford) and oh yeah. It's just so insane when you're trying to deal.
You're dealing with the patient's anatomy, but also their psychology and, and boy, there's nothing easy about that when you're dealing in the little, little, little millimeters that you deal in, like, it's not like body it's face and it's in the mirror all the time and that, oh boy. Yeah, you, you pick them.
Sam P. Most, MD: He's actually, he and I are both very interested in understanding more about how to predict which patients are going to go down that path. And he's written some research on it. And actually, I've done some research in this area as well, and we've written about it together even so, oh, one of the things that That he's realizes a lot of the patients have significant body image issues.
A lot of its related to childhood trauma and that's something he's done a lot of research on. And one thing that that we've found is that there's this thing called sort of nasal self-esteem, which is related to what he's talking about. And we have a questionnaire that we give every patient. That's called the appropriately.
It's actually a validated patient reported outcome measure. So, it's a, it's a really scientific instrument and, and we encourage all surgeons to use it, by the way, all Ram posy surgeons. It's just 10 questions. But one of the questions is about SNA self-esteem it's question five. It turns out that if patients get a certain score on that, there's a really high likelihood controlling for all the other variables that they're going to request a revision.
In other words, if they have a really. If their self-esteem is really tied up into their nose and there's all sorts of ways, you can kind of paraphrase that, you know, like obsessive or whatever, they're highly unlikely to be unhappy no matter what you do. Whereas if they. You know, with the same physical appearance, if they have a lower score in that they're not as invested or tied up in terms of their self-esteem, into the shape of them by the shape of their nose, they're less likely.
And itβs sort of intuitive if you think about it. So, if somebody has sort of a healthier body image and they just want something done here versus the same exact physical person, but they've sort of emotionally tied a lot more into what the shape of the nose looks like. Those two people are going to actually have different sort of satisfactions with the same exact physical operation.
And so that's one of the things, and you were asking about how we, you know, how we determine which patientsβ part of it is the questionnaire, you know, and, and that's part of get this questionnaire. It's free. It's we published it. It's free for anybody to use it's out there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You called the SCHs questionnaire.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. A lot of people are familiar with it, but yeah, it's, it's actually advocated for use by all surgeons, private practice, you know, not just academic. Oh, interesting. So, it's a lot of Guidelines from the government coming down are going to be that you have to use questionnaires like this.
They're called patient reported outcome measures in your practice and just documented in the chart. So, we made one that's really simple to use, but that, that particular question does have value predictive value for how patients are going to do a surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the patient is able to tell you how their self-esteem is attached to their nose, which must tie in with you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
Cause I'm thinking as a patient. Would I have figured that out because if I don't feel good about myself today, I think it's my nose. If you nose and still don't love myself, I'm going to another body part. Don't you, right?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. Yeah. Or on the other hand, if you look for any imperfection and whatever is all you get, and then you'll be dissatisfied or you'll think that my job or whatever, my relationship is tied up in the way my nose looks, and then you get your nose fixed, but those things don't get.
And, and so that, that's another way of looking at it, but so it's just a simple question. It's just a zero to five answer on a question like you know, about nasal self-esteem and how much of it affecting your quality of life basically. And so, if they score really low, then they're really not super tied up into it.
If they score pretty high, then yeah. It raises a few red flags.
How different Facelift patient it. Do you feel like you have a different approach to those?
Sam P. Most, MD: The, the, well, the obvious answer is the aging face. Patients are usually a little bit older, but having, having said that in all seriousness, the aging face, patients come in a little differently.
They tend to be more mature. Yeah. I think they tend to be in a different place in life. So, I think that they just, their outlook on life is a little different than someone in there. Early twenties or late teens, you know? And so, you know, what I talk about with those patients is more, what we can achieve the same thing.
I don't do simulations and all that I talk about what's bothering them and It is a little different approach. We don't use the computer simulations and, you know, we are, of course we do have red flag issues as well. You know, patients can have body dysmorphic disorder you know, anywhere from 10 to 25 to, in rightly C populations, 40% of patients who come into the clinic have BDD diagnostic, BD D so those are all sorts of research has shown that including stuff from our clinic.
So. You have to kind of be cognizant of that, but you know, you just the same things, you, you want to talk to them about what are realistic outcomes that they're expecting, what do they hope to achieve? You know, if they say I'm trying to, you know, just look younger because I just feel like this is happening here.
And they're very concrete about it. That that's better than sort of abstract things. Like, I just feel really sad and I, I want to my save my relationship with my husband or my spouse. I feel like this is going to help me. That's really not a great indication for surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, the, what I'm thinking about you is I would think if people are going to you, they care a lot about your credentials.
I mean, you just have such credibility backing you up since youβre having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. So, I would think those people would be, I, I would think you have a nice clientele there. I mean, I, I would guess that most of them are coming because they love your CV. They love all the research, the clinical is that true? Or.
Sam P. Most, MD: You know, it's yes and no.
Sometimes patients come in because our office is right here in Palo Alto to a small office here. It's not, it's near Stan, it's on Stanford campus, but work their private practice doctors on. Sometimes they don't even realize, oh, do you work at Stanford? Really? Other times. People come in and say you know, yeah.
The things that you talked about, they kind of understand all the other stuff. So I, I, I don't know exactly how to answer that question. I, I, I think I feel fortunate to be where I am and, and to have worked with all the people I've worked with over the years and be in this institution and also feel privileged to be able to kind of provide a little more private practice you feel to, especially the aesthetic practice.
I think you need to. I think the people want don't want to feel like they're in a big, giant, you know, university setting. And my office is not like.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I saw on the internet. You had, isn't it a new office for you where you perform 300 rhinoplasties per year? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: It's yeah, it's relatively new. It's probably about seven years old. Now we should probably update the website and it looks brand new.
It really is a pretty office. And it's state of the art. We have, you know, computer screens in the walls and all sorts of stuff. So it's, it is a pretty nice space.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So let me just ask you a stupid question in relation to having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. Who, who work do, do people work for you or does Stanford hire them and then you work with them?
Like how, how does that work? Like your, the people surround?
Sam P. Most, MD: it's a little bit of both. I've built the practice with my own staff and so on and, and interviewed them and hired them. But they're hired by their hired by Stanford, their Stanford employees. So it's a little bit of both, but technically there's Stanford employees, but we're part, we have our little facial plastics team of nurses.
And soβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, does that present any challenges for you if they don't think they work for you? How does that impact you being able to perform 300 rhinoplasties per year? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: Does that, you know, that you've hit the nail ahead? I mean, I think having a team mentality is so critical to providing good care or any, anything you want to do, especially in the service industry, which is basically what this is.
Right. So how do you build that team mentality? When you're not paying the check yourself directly. Well, I mean, I think there's ways to do it. I think there's ways to entice people, to feel have some agency in terms of how the operation works. And operation, meaning the, you know, not the, not the surgical operation, but the how the operation of the facility works and giving them some power to make, to some decisions and so on.
I think that's the way you do it. I think you run into kind of the same problems though, that I've talked to my colleagues in private practice. It's the same thing right now with COVID it's hard to keep good staff. It's hard to, you know, we're struggling with that. Like a lot of folks are and you know, the, the Stanford thing is a lot of people want to work actually at Stanford employees cause they get really good benefits, honestly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, it looks really good on a resume, you know?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. Yeah. It is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So do you have like other revenue producers in your, in your team? Like, are you mentioned an NP, do you have injectors? Do you have esthetic? Yeah, my
Sam P. Most, MD: NP is my NP is an injector. My patient care coordinator is an esthetician as well. Oh, okay.
And so they do some, they do some things here in the office and yeah, so we have we have a whole team doing things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, very nice. Yeah. So you are kind of like, like a regular practice yeah? Except youβre having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford!
Sam P. Most, MD:. And I, and I have my own cost center, so I mean, okay. You know, we have our own gross and, and, and you know, we have direct indirect and we have net and revenue and all that stuff that we generate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well regarding marketing to get you booked to perform 300 rhinoplasties per year, I did, I've tried a couple times to help. A long time ago. I've been at this for a long time, too. And we were just trying to do some simple things in one of the departments. And we, we didn't get anywhere. It was it was painful like I, as, as a vendor who gets paid by time it was just you know, I couldn't get anything done that made any sense. How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Because Stanford name had to be on it. There are awful lot of people involved. Do you, do you find that, is that an issue for you or?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah, I mean, I don't do a ton of marketing right now. I mean, I do the social media stuff. But Stanford, I think institutions in general, this is the second big university that I've worked at as a physician.
They have interesting rules around marketing and I think that You know, print ads and things like that. I think they want to be really careful with how their logos and things are used. So I think there's some strict rules around that, but I don't really do much of that anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And it looks like you don't even have your own website.
You're using Stanford, you know they have you on?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. I used to have my own website, Dr. mos.com, but they made me shut it down.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I was thinking why wouldn't have his, then you show photos because they actually don't show any before and after photos of your 300 rhinoplasties per year. How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: No, there's some on there. There's some, there's a bunch of rhinoplasty ones and stuff, but you know, I just use Instagram now.
Right. There's some hundreds of patients that, you know, of course with permission that I posted on Instagram and that's. That's where the, you know, my target group looks mostly, they don't really talk about my website, much. My website's more a placeholder kind of like a yellow pages thing just with my phone number and stuff.
And yeah, I think in an ideal world, I'd have a private side and I'd have more control over it. I think that's been, that's been a big downside, but social media's really helped with that because I have control over that. And that's been, that's been really good. It's a great way for me to communicate to my patients.
A little bit about me personally, as well as. Some professional things to my colleagues around the world. So I do lectures on there and stuff. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And no, you have thousand followers amongst your 300 rhinoplasties per year, and I was really surprised. I didn't expect that from, from you. How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford? Yeah. Tell me kind of, are you putting into it? And by the way, I want to compliment you.
The team building, you can see you're doing the team building on Instagram. You've got them involved. Yeah. And I think that's very helpful as well. And you're doing a little personality. I, at first I thought, huh? I don't think he has a family. I think he just has dogs.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. I mean the family showed up.
No, there's, there's there are very few family photos. It's a, of a rule in my house. Yeah. Okay. I put a few photos like from a long time ago when the kids were little and stuff. Right. But so there's lots of pictures of the dogs. Dogs the dogs make kids. And I do pictures of the staff as well.
And, and just try to, you know, keep that up, keep that up to date. And it's, it's fun. Actually. I spend probably, you know, I spend a few hours a week and, and I do all of that, you know, I do all of the graphics and all the design and, and all that stuff. So wow. So, and like I said, I had a, I had a back background in.
Not formal background, but I enjoyed doing graphic design and artwork and that kind of stuff and photography. So it kind of fits into that. I play with Photoshop and that stuff and, you know, design logos and that kind of stuff. So it's, it's kind of fun for me, but probably a few hours a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Okay.
Good for you. I had no idea you were actually doing it yourself. Most people seem to have somebody like, like their, their kid at home. , you know, since youβre having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. Right. I know. No, it's me right on this computer or other computers or whatever home even to, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, are you feeling the pressure to put together a few dance videos on TikTok to help you get those 300 rhinoplasties per year? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: You know, I started a TikTok account and I. I haven't really done much with it and no, I, I will not do the dance. I, I, I guess I'm kind of drawing the line with that. I don't feel like, I think that's really, I don't know. I don't think that's me. I think it needs to be sort of, it's sort of disingenuous.
I think if I do that, if I did it in the moment with my staff, we're having some fun maybe, but if it was just a whole big stage thing, I just don't feel like it's me. And I don't feel like that's. Really honest.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, now the reels are so popular. There are so many video apps now that yeah. Can really help with that.
I've watched a lot of surgeons. You can tell that somebody knows what they're doing behind the, the scenes, right? So the surgeon, all he has to do is like point to things.
Yeah. Or the, the syncing and there's some music. So there are things you can do nowadays where you don't have to dance, but I'll tell you, I'm watching my 16 year old niece. Yes. And she doesn't even go to Instagram ever. She's just on TikTok and Snapchat and right. And, and that's your audience, you know, that, that right.
I thought that's interesting because I thought we have to learn TikTok now, you know? Yes. Are you kidding? Like, do you have a, like, do you have a marketing plan or like how you're going to stay in front of that group if they do all seem to surge over to
Sam P. Most, MD: TikTok? Yeah, no, I, I have thought about what I need to do, but I hope I don't have to do all the dances and all that stuff, but I think that a lot of the stuff that I do for company just poured over there.
Some of it's just before us and actors and that kind of stuff and putting some music, I've done some of that. And, and there's some results that kind of go viral. I mean, there's, there's a couple of my patients that I did that just kind of exploded and that, you know, gained thousands of followers just from one result.
And there's some of those things, I think when I. Do them over there. I think that I'll get a little bit of that, but I haven't I haven't lost sleep over it, but I realize that that, that that's the way it's going. Just like it went from Facebook to Instagram. It's going to go from Instagram to TikTok.
And I'm still trying to get a. Get a handle on like you were alluding to, what is it different about that? What's different about that content besides the music and the dancing? I mean, if I look at other surgeons, what they're doing, they're not just doing all that. There's also just sort of befores and afters, a little bit of inoperative video stuff.
And I can do that. I'm doing some of that. I did a real that I posted just today on Instagram, about a revision rhinoplasty. And I think that that kind of stuff, you know, people are still doing just over on TikTok.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just TikTok is just known for entertainment, period. Yes. And Instagram, you still have a chance at education and how it relates to having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford, right.
You know, and that's with, I just think I I'm good with, I
Sam P. Most, MD: I'm hearing that some people and you, if are doing kind of some informational stuff on too, is that not true?
Catherine Maley, MBA: If it's fascinating. My niece has the attention span of Ann and I'm shocked. You know, watching the teenagers, have you watch, you have teenagers, don't you?
One of them I think is a teenager.
Sam P. Most, MD: No, no, they're in their twenties now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: They're in their twenties. Oh God. Yeah. All those pictures are really old.
Sam P. Most, MD: OK. They're old pictures. Yeah. They're-
Catherine Maley, MBA: I was wondering kids are really watch teenager. They don't even finish sentences. Like I went out to lunch with three of them.
It was my, it was my niece's birthday. Yeah. And there was a guy and a girl and the three of them literally were in 44 different conversations that started stopped when another way. And I thought, I wonder, what's going to happen with that crowd, you know?
Sam P. Most, MD: And they could follow each other probably just fine.
Right. You were fine. But we had no idea what they're talking about. I was lost. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Whatever. But, but you know what kids will always go a different direction than the, the people before them. So if Facebook was popular, then Instagram and now they now they're bailing and going to TikTok. So that will always happen.
Right. You want to keep up with it and your 300 rhinoplasties per year, you know? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford? Right. Like, you know, is that what you want to do? And frankly, I think it's a great way to go, especially if you're a rhinoplasty. I don't know, you know?
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. I mean, keeping up, I think I need to keep up the content on, on Instagram and, and port some of it over to TikTok and then see what, what happens.
You know, someone, someone actually had posted one of my results that had gone viral on, on Instagram, on TikTok nice two years, two years ago. And I heard about it, you know, and, and. It's one of these sort of, I don't know who exactly who it was, so it's interesting. And then all those people started following me on Instagram saying the camera were coming from TikTok.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I is it an influencer who like, how did it, how?
Sam P. Most, MD: I Donβt know, I, I think it was, you know, there's these, these aggregating sort of plastic surgery sites that pull images off of plastic surgeons, social media, and post them. Which is totally fine, as long as we're giving credit. And it was something like that.
And I had my name on it. Nice. I didn't have a TikTok account. So people were like, who's this guy. And then they were going to Instagram. I should have started a TikTok account then , that would be a good idea. Yeah. But I'm, I'm going to post that in some other ones at some point and just. You know, I'm waiting for the right moment.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, actually one of your colleagues that, you know, very well, he actually asks on his patient intake forms. How many followers do you have on Instagram? Wow, really? Yeah, because he is all about. The influencing mechanism to it, to social media.
Sam P. Most, MD: So, so if they have a lot of followers, then he accepts them as a patient.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Interesting how something like that could impact you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
Sam P. Most, MD: That's another currency. You don't in your bank account to foreign surgery and you don't have enough followers then we're not going to. Yep. and he said it, he said it, it never even occurred to me. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And I thought, wow, well now he's also in a very posh area. But I just thought that was super interesting, you know?
Yeah. He, you know, he's just trying to make the most out of every surgical procedure.
Sam P. Most, MD: that's interesting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So let's talk about now this year and you performing 300 rhinoplasties and how that relates to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. Aren't you the president of the rhinoplasty society? Yes, I am. Congratulations. Thank you. So like, what are the challenges. Coming up for that society. Like what do you guys talk about?
Yeah. And I I'm shocked at how much you can talk about rhinoplasty. I was at that meeting last, I donβt know, last year or something. And for two solid days, they were doing five minute talks. I mean, all nose, all rhino. And I thought, how much can you talk about this?
Sam P. Most, MD: No, we can really nerd out on this stuff. Trust me.
You could go to sleep thinking about it, wake up, thinking about. And that's what I think makes it so fascinating. It's a challenging operation. So, so the rhinoplasty society is all about trying to You know, get a group of surgeons who are dedicated to the science and the art of rhinoplasty surgery to educating the public and our peers about rhinoplasty surgery.
And it's a, it's a mixture of facial plastic surgeons and plastic surgeons. And so, you know, the, the challenges are just like they would be for any other group with those types, sorts of goals. They are to continue with a changing environment with the way education's working in medicine. Now, as you know, it's changing, it's gone from a lot of in-person stuff with COVID.
We've gone to a lot of. Virtual now we're kind of going back to these hybrid meetings to providing the education, the platforms that we use, it used to be textbooks and lectures, and now it's YouTube videos, it's webinars, it's you know, all these things. How do we, as a society, stay current with that and provide to our members are the educational content that makes it you know, worth it for them to be a member of the society.
And how do we continue to educate the younger surgeons coming up and encourage them to get really interested in rhinoplasty to become rhinoplasty nerds like we are and, and to dedicate themselves to just keep, you know, keep trying to get better. And those are the, those are the challenges.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How do you educate the public on what are you looking for a surgeon for nose reshaping or revision and your 300 rhinoplasties per year? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
And do you call it your job or do you call it rhinoplasty? Do you think a lot of people nowadays know the word rhinoplasty?
Sam P. Most, MD: I think so. I think they do. I mean, those hashtags are going crazy as you know, on TikTok and Instagram, but you know, I think that we, we, we try to stay away from labels, you know, first of all, Certifications in that.
I mean, plastic surgery, facial plastic surgery. That's fine. Really. I think if you're a patient looking for any surgical procedure, whether it's plastic surgery or something else in the body, you know, you want to look for people with experience who specialize in it. You know, I think that that's sure for anything.
And so it's really no D. My mind for than for, you know, anything else. Cause Ryan class is the same way. So do you want to see somebody who does a couple a year or somebody who, who is dedicated themselves and do, does at least X number, whatever it is per year, or at least goes to meetings and tries to get better?
At whatever it is that you're looking for. I think those are the things that we would, would try to try to point out. And, and, you know, the, the rhino society is not in the business of certifying people as rhino, ply surgeons or anything like that. But to be a member of the society, you have to show some dedication to it to the procedure experience and dedication.
And so you know, our members I think are, are, are good surgeons that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're also involved in clinical research and innovation, like what's new in the rhino
Sam P. Most, MD: world, you know? We in rhinoplasty, the latest thing you probably heard is this, this talk about this thing called preservation rhinoplasty.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Which he's hearing about preservation and how it can relate to you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
I'm what, when did that happen? I never heard that before. Yeah.
Sam P. Most, MD: It's really a new term for an old procedure. That's been around for 130 years. Okay. So basically we're talking about with this, the main thing is this thing called dorsal preservation. Okay. And so, you know, one of the most common things people come to me and other surgeons for is to reduce the dorsal hop of bump on the nose.
And the way most of us have been doing it in north America is to cut the top off and break the bones and bring it together. It's called the Joseph hum production or whatever. And you know, it turns out there's another way to do it. And 130 years ago, people started doing a thing where they actually cut all the way around the edges.
Don't cut the top and then push it into the face. And it kind of flattens a little bit, not completely, but it looks good. Yeah, it fell out of favor in the United States. There was a surgeon named Maurice coddle who was very much a proponent of this and it fell out of favor for whatever reason, but it was kind of kept alive in south America and Mexico in some parts of Europe.
And kind of rediscovered in the last 15, you know, 10 years and sort of made a resurgence and then a surgeon by the name of Rawlin, Daniel coined the term preservation to call that because you're preserving the door. And even though it's not a new surgery it's been around forever and sort of took off.
And part of it is because. Now that more surgeons were doing it, we were kind of refining it. And I think there were some problems with the way it was being done before. That's why it was abandoned. And so surgeons such as myself and a few others started doing this more in north America and in the us and were kind of coming up with.
The reasons why it didn't work and how we can get past them and why we can make it a better way of doing things in the right patients. And so it's just another way of doing things and it's a really hot topic. I've written a lot about it, talked a lot about it the last few years and it's pretty cool.
It's exciting as a surgeon to after, you know, like I said, 20 years now in practice, I have this other whole way of doing things that we're kind of investigating and improving on and adding it to our repertoire of things we can offer the patients. So it's pretty cool.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So you. You would want to do this because it's faster, less painful.
Why, why would you want to do it in terms of 300 rhinoplasties per year? How does that relate to being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: Oh yeah, no, thanks. I mean, I guess I didn't explain that it's when you do this, because you're not cutting the top, you, it it's like completely natural. It looks com it looks completely natural, lower risk of some of the other complications you can get with like irregularities and things like that.
Gotcha. But again, you have to do it on the right patients and you have to know what you're doing. So The Joseph method still works great. The traditional method. And I think you can get slightly better results with this in the right patients. And, and a lot of the stuff that I'm doing and other people are doing is figuring out what the definitions are, which patients should have it done, which way.
And you know, the trend in rhinoplasty in the past 20 years has been to preserve more and more, not to cut so much cartilage out of the tip and not to make it look like a tiny little pointy Barbie tip. And, you know, because over a period of a decade, it might look terrible. So or the airway might collapse or something.
So it's about structure, it's about preservation and it's about creating a natural looking result that still works really well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How helpful has Michael Jackson's been for you before you, you know, don't you use him a lot to try to explain things like what you're saying right now.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah, no, I mean, I don't use them because it's sort of like, we don't like to use the Michael Jackson word in the rhinoplasty clinic, but I, I know what you're saying.
Yeah. I, I think that it has been good because a lot of people I think can see what the perils. And even if you don't bring it up, they say, I don't want my nose to collapse and I don't want it to be pointy and strange looking. And they may not say his name, but they may, you know, Talk about other people that have had the same kind of thing happen, but yeah, it's Michael Jackson was unfortunately just a terrible situation and it never goes away.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I probably see it online at least once a week, you know, it's just, oh really? He is all over the place. It just, it, because it's like, you know, inked, it's really sad.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. I mean, it's really sad.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So you also are the part of the evidence based rhinoplasty research group. So is that how different, how many groups do you belong to? How do you have time in having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: Oh, yeah, but so that's a great example of another way we're educating. Right? So the, the evidence based rhinoplasty research group was founded by Miguel fer. Friend of mine in, in in Porto Portugal. And he asked me to help him get it running, but he really runs the show mostly. And, and I help with that.
It's a telegram group. So another medium, right. And it's got 15 or 1400 numbers. Now, these are all round plastic surgeons around the world and we try to post high level papers that are interesting for all of us to read and discuss. In rhinoplasty and we do poles of rhinoplasty surgeons. So understanding what sort of, what people think, what are trends and stuff like that.
So it's just another example of an entirely new way that rhinoplasty surgeons can very quickly on a weekly basis or even daily basis post. Things and have a bunch of other expert surgeons and surgeons from around the world comment on things. And there are other groups like that too.
There's a preservation around plastic group that BARR, checkers running there's all sorts of stuff like that. So it it's really interesting how the education has changed. For example, in the a F P R S one of the things where we get concerned about, and I was a member of the board for a long time, was.
How the model's changing because our revenue, you know, our revenue was from educational meetings, a large part of it and membership. And if members, if people don't need to be members to get the education that they, that they need, you know, how are you going to keep the society going? And these are the same things with thrive society.
So how do we provide value to the group? And it's. It's interesting. So you asked me how many groups I'm a member of. I donβt know. wow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you also run the fellowship program, right? At the same time youβre having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: At Stanford. Yeah. I'm the director of the fellowship here. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, that's, that's really privilege, you know, you get really, really bright people that come out of residency and dedicate another year of their lives to, to spending it with me.
And I appreciate that. And they're really outstanding.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then of that, how many of them stay in the academic world versus go.
Sam P. Most, MD: I, you know, for our program, I try to get people who are going to stick into the academic world because we have resources here that we can provide people to launch them in that way.
In addition to getting a really strong clinical surgical experience. So I'd say probably 70% of them are going to academics.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then would they stay at Stanford or�
Sam P. Most, MD: Would they no, they find jobs all over. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'd rather stay at Stanford. That's a place to be recruiting at Stanford is tough.
Sam P. Most, MD: I mean, I think that, you know, you think as a surgeon you could just buy a house or something, but it's really tough.
The it's, it's just a tough market here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's I assume it's the cost of living.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. And mostly it's just getting into a home. I mean, it's not the buying groceries and the gas. I mean, those are more expensive here than other states, but it's just, you know, what kind of home can you buy if your dream is to own a home or something?
It's one thing to live in Palo Alto. It's another thing to live really anywhere else. I mean, except Manhattan and a few other places where there are too many places that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, how much did Facebook buy? Didn't they buy like all of Menlo park?
Sam P. Most, MD: they bought a bunch of the land, I think down. Yeah. It's sort of down towards 1 0 1 down towards the highway.
Yeah. That didn't help. No, it didn't help. And then all the people that, you know, they bought that land, but then all the people that got their stock options bought the homes over here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: nice. Yeah. So do you have any words of wisdom in regards to having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford? Just in general for anybody who's thinking, do I stay in the university?
Do I go out on my own? Like any words of wisdom for that?
Sam P. Most, MD: You know, I think you just have to do, what's going to make you happy, you know, because if you, if you really like, if you really, really like. Doing the things, for example, that I do on the academic side, like writing papers and, and giving a lot of lectures and that kind of stuff, you know, academics is going to be okay if you're really more business oriented and you just want to.
Make a lot of money. And that's the only thing. I mean, I'm not saying that's not important, but if that's really the only thing and you really want to run an efficient operation, some of the things that we deal with in the university will probably drive a few nuts and, and, and don't get me wrong. We make a good, I think it's Stanford, especially we make a good living.
It's I'm not talking, but it's different. So we have different priorities. And I think you have to think about what really makes you tick. What makes you happy? So. You know, I tell my fellows the same thing. You know, if you really like doing the types of things that you see me doing, you know, going around lecturing internationally and publishing a lot of papers, writing it written two textbooks this past year.
And It's hard to do in private practice. It's not impossible. But I also am very busy clinically and I, and I, you know, I'm happy with the income I make. It's a good balance. But I think that if you're, you're kind of more dead set on one thing like the business side of things, it might drive you a little crazy to deal with the bureaucracy of an academic medical center and believe it drives me crazy sometimes too.
But I think you just have to kind of do what your gut tells.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And I just say it all the time, just know yourself, you know? Yeah. I just know who you are and what you can tolerate and what you could get up every day and do you know, right.
Sam P. Most, MD: You're going to do this for an awful long time, right? Yeah. 20 years goes by in a flash, but if you're miserable, it takes forever.
I can say that I've been fortunate. I've been pretty happy and I can't believe that it's been 20 years in practice, but it, it seems like it's gone back pretty. Good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, tell us something we don't know about you that doesnβt relate to you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford. And I do know that you like fishing and you haveβ¦
Sam P. Most, MD: That was what I was going to tell you.
Okay. Yep.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And no, you have to pick a different one German and then a little funny dog. And do they get along?
Sam P. Most, MD: Jerry and oh, they're best buddies. Griffin is my Norwich terrier. And Jerry's a rescue German shepherd. I've had three German shepherds that are rescues over the years. It's a, Griffey's the first non-res dog I've ever had.
Aww. And he's he and Jerry get along. Great. They're they differ by about 90 pounds in weight. One's 105, and one's about 15.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And Jerry has the floppies ears for German shepherd.
Sam P. Most, MD: He does. That's probably why he was left in a shelter. but he's a great guy. You know, I What, what can I tell you?
What, so what do I, what do I enjoy doing besides those things? You know, fly fishing is one of my passions. I don't get to do as much here as I did in Seattle. Mm-hmm one thing I do for fun is I'll tell you two things about me. You might not know I'm a massive YouTube fan. Nice. And I was actually on XM radio.
On the YouTube station. Good, good. For 2021. Yes. They have a thing where if you're a fan, you can call in and you get to DJ for half an hour. So I did that. You what's that you DJ yeah. You pick the songs, you introduce them. It's prerecorded, but you know, it's, they play it a bunch of times. So I've got a recording of that.
Maybe someday I'll play it for you please. May I might do it again sometime pick five different songs and do it again. That's that was a lot of fun. And the other thing is, you know just for kicks I still do a hobby that I did when I was a, when I was a teenager and that's designed and silk screen and print t-shirts.
So if I see something really cool that's that I want to make like a cool YouTube tour shirt. For a show that I saw that I know I can make a few and like no one else is ever going to have them. I'll make them. In fact, I, I made one of those and I was walking around Los Altos where I live and this gentleman stopped me and said, where'd you get that shirt?
And I said I thought he was maybe going to say it's a copyright thing, but I don't sell them. It's just for me. So I said, I made. And it was like, it said you two zoo TV tour, like 1992. He goes, I was the production manager for that tour in 1992 . Oh, that's cool. So we had conversation about it. But it all went back to the fact that I made that one of a kind like shirt that I just wore from an old design that I found.
So that's another thing I like to do as far as you, like, I had this sort. Artistic side that I like to,
Catherine Maley, MBA: well, I think, I think you you're screaming for a Spotify kind of website with a little store, little
Sam P. Most, MD: I I'm learning guitar, which is the last thing you want. You probably want to know about me. I'm learning I'm not ready for Spotify though.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well, you know, those stores, what are they called? I think it's, isn't Spotify.
Sam P. Most, MD: We go Etsy, no Etsy. We can go Etsy and sell, but I have to be careful of the copyright. I can't sell the you YouTube stuff there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, gotcha. Well, you a lot of creative ideas, so you can there's there might be a part-time gig there for you to go along with you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford.
Sure. Sure. So thank you so much for being on beauty, the BI. I really appreciate it. I hope to see you at a. Someday.
Sam P. Most, MD: Yeah. I hope to. Yeah. I hope to see you soon. Thanks so much for having me. It's been great. It's been a lot of fun. Sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: By the way, how would somebody get ahold of you if they wanted to if they have any questions on you having knowledge of being a career plastic surgeon at Stanford?
Sam P. Most, MD: You can, our office number is (650) 736-FACE, which is 3223.
You could also, if you want to message me on Instagram, Instagram, that's fine. And then if it's not no patient related stuff, but if you have questions about stuff, I'd be happy to answer it.
What's your Instagram? @MOSTMD. @M-O-S-T-M-D.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, terrific. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz. A big thanks to Dr. Spiegel for sharing his insight on facelifts and facial feminization.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If youβve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βCareer Plastic Surgeon at Stanford β with Sam P Most, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#stanforduniversityplasticsurgeon #plasticsurgeonuniversitycareers #sampmostmd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and if you are a rich surgeon or a poor surgeon.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Are You a Rich Surgeon or Poor Surgeon?".
In his bestselling book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert Kiyosaki presented the "Cash Flow Quadrant" where he breaks it down into 4 scenarios like this:
The 1st scenario is the
Employed where you exchange your time and effort for an income so if you donβt work, you donβt get paid.
The next scenario is the self-employed where you work for yourself but can you take weeks off and your business keeps on going without you?
The next scenario is Big Business and this is when you have other people working hard for you to generate your income.
And the last scenario is Investor where you have money working hard for you so you can play golf and have a good life.
So using this cash flow quadrant, Mr. Kiyosaki clearly explains why some people make a lot of money AND have time to enjoy their riches, while others are stuck in the rat race.
He says "the rich" have either businesses in which PEOPLE are working hard for them, or they have MONEY working hard for them while they enjoy a good life. The good life as a plastic surgeon is whatever it means to you such as:
- Working only 3 or 4 days per week and taking the rest of the time to do what YOU want to do
- Having dinner every night with your wife and kids
- Taking 6 weeks of vacation each year while..
- Enjoying the freedom and PEACE OF MIND to retire today if you felt like it
So, as a plastic surgeon, which quadrant are YOU in?
Most surgeons are stuck in the "self-employed" quadrant. Yes, you work for yourself (and Uncle Sam), but most probably you cannot take a 6-week vacation without a severe negative impact on your practice and your income.
If you want to become wealthy AND enjoy life, you need to move to the right side of the quadrant which is big business where you have people working for you that produce your income and investor where you have your money working for you.
But let's be honest: Do you have a team of superstars that work hard for YOU?
Can you leave your practice for a few weeks, come back and find your practice in better shape that before you left?
In order to move to the upper right quadrant of financial and time freedom, its essential to focus on the following:
#1-The Team Supporting Your Practice
You can't do this alone and you can't be the only revenue generator in your practice. That leaves you vulnerable. If you're not working, no money is coming in. So, you either are always there keeping the cash flowing or you're not there but, then you're worrying and/or feeling guilty for not being there. You can't win with this business model.
A better way is to find other revenue-generators and supporting staff that take the pressure off you and build their own revenue streams. For example, if you're currently producing 95% of all revenues in your practice, a goal is to get that down to 75% and then 50% and even 30%.
BUT that doesn't happen quick and easy. Finding the right team players takes a lot of effort upfront, but it is essential when building a sustainable practice.
For starters, WHO would you bring on? Another surgeon, nurse injectors, laser techs, aestheticians, experienced coordinators who know how to convert?
Figure that out first and then be extremely clear with them about your vision and expectations as well as....
#2-Implement SYSTEMS for Clarity and Consistency
Money loves clarity and so do your team members. You can't expect excellence from your team until they understand your definition of it. Be clear HOW you want things done. Then have each team member map out their step-by-step processes.
They can use google docs to write out checklists and/or do screen capture videos explaining what exactly they do to accomplish their tasks.
Here's a great way to test their skill in explaining things. Give their how-to materials to another team member and have them do it. If they can complete the task, your systems are good. If they can't, improve it until they can.
Why are you doing this? Because this is exactly what happens when someone on your team goes on vacation, has an accident and is out for a month or suddenly quits. When you are set up correctly, it's an annoyance rather than a major breakdown because your systems have your back.
And #3 -Hold Your Team Accountable
You being a Rich Surgeon or a poor surgeon oftentimes hinges on this....
The majority of surgeons I've worked with have trouble letting go of control.....UNTIL they see they can and their practice doesn't fall apart. Most likely you, too, have experienced toxic staff, patient complaints about your service or even embezzlement. That's what makes you hold on tight.
While itβs understandable, it's not necessary once you hold each team member accountable for their own actions, behaviors and results.
Because this isn't about abdicating your responsibility. It's about empowering your team to step up, have your back, do their job and report back to you regularly.
Now you have the peace of mind knowing things are working well or there are issues to address but it's no longer guesswork or hoping everyone is doing what they are paid to do. It's a system to know everyone is on their game and you know the health of your practice on any given day.
There is a lot more to running your practice like a business so itβs a well-oiled machine that can run without YOU but this will get you started.
Of course, let me know if I can help. Just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com and weβll set up a time to talk.
Ok that wraps it up for now
If this was helpful to you, please subscribe and review Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss future episodes
And share this with your staff and colleagues
And, again, if you want to talk, please leave me a message at my website www.CatherineMaley.com.
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Are You a Rich Surgeon or Poor Surgeon
Announcer: Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice, business and marketing coach. Catherine Maley, MBA.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon. I'm your host, Catherine Maley; author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now today's episode is called, Are you a rich surgeon or poor surgeon?
So, when his best-selling book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert Kiyosaki presented the cash flow quadrant, where he breaks it down into four scenarios that will help us decipher the question: are you a rich surgeon or a poor surgeon?
Now the first scenario on discovering if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon is the employed where you exchange your time and effort for an income. So, if you don't work, you don't get paid. Now the next scenario for understanding if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon is the self-employed where you work for yourself, but can you take weeks off and your business keeps on going without.
Now, the next scenario on figuring out if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon is big business, and this is when you have other people working hard for you to generate your income. And then the last scenario on whether or now you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon is investor, where you have money working hard for you, so you can play golf and have a good life.
So, using this cash flow quadrant on if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon, Mr. Kiyosaki clearly explains why some people make a lot of money and have time to enjoy their riches while others are stuck in the rat.
He says the rich have either businesses in which people are working hard for them, or they have money working hard for them while they enjoy good life. And the good life as a plastic surgeon is whatever it means to you. For example, maybe it's working only three or four hours per week and taking the rest of the time to do what you want to do, or maybe it's having dinner every night with your wife and kids or taking six weeks of vacation each year.
While enjoying the freedom and peace of mind to retire today, if you felt like, depending on if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon. So as a plastic surgeon, which quadrant are you in now? Most surgeons are stuck in the self-employed quadrant. Yes. You work for yourself and uncle Sam, but most probably you cannot take a six-week vacation without a severe or negative impact on your practice and your income.
Now, if you want to become wealthy and enjoy life, you need to move to the right side of the quadrant on if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon, which is big business, where you have people working for you that produce your income and investor, where you have your money working for you. But let's be honest. Do you have a team of superstars that work hard for you?
Can you leave your practice for a few weeks, come back and find your practice in better shape than before you left. Now in order to move to the upper right quadrant of financial and time freedom, it's essential to focus on the following. Number one, the team supporting your practice. You can't do this alone and you can't be the only revenue generator in your practice.
That leaves you vulnerable and then you canβt choose if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon. Now, if you're not working, no money is coming in. So, you either are always there keeping the cash flowing or you're not there, but then you're worrying and, or feeling guilty for not being there. You can't win with this business model. Now a better way is to find other revenue, generators and supporting staff that can take the pressure off of you and build their own revenue stream.
For example, if you're currently producing 95% of all revenues in your practice, a goal is to get it down to 75% and then 50% and even 30%. But that doesn't happen quick and easy finding the right team players takes a lot of effort front, but it's essential when building a sustainable practice for starters, who would you bring on?
I mean, would it be another surgeon, nurse injectors, laser techs, estheticians experienced coordinators who know how to convert, figure that out first and then be extremely clear with them about your vision and expectations as well as number two. Implement systems for clarity and consistency, money loves clarity so you can choose whether you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon.
And so do your team members, you can't expect excellence from your team until they understand your definition of it. So be clear how you want things done. Then have each team member map out their step-by-step processes. Now they can use Google docs to write out checklists and do screen capture videos, explaining what exactly they do to accomplish their tasks.
Now here's a great way to test their skill in explaining things, give their how-to materials to another team member and have them do it. If they can complete the task, your systems are good if they can't improve it until they can. So why are you doing this? Because this is exactly what happens when someone on your team goes on.
Vacation has an accident and is out for a month or suddenly quits when you're set up correctly. It's an annoyance rather than a major breakdown in your practice because your systems have your back. And then number three, hold your team accountable. You being a rich surgeon or a poor surgeon, oftentimes hinges on.
The majority of surgeons I've worked with have trouble letting go of control until they see they can, and their practice doesn't fall apart, which forces them into one of the quadrants on if they will be a rich surgeon or poor surgeon. Now, most likely you too have experienced toxic staff. Patients complaining about your service or even embezzlement. That's what makes you hold on so tight while it's completely understandable.
It's not necessary once you hold each team member accountable for their own actions, behaviors, and results, because this isn't about abdicating your responsibility. It's about empowering your team to step up, have your back, do their job and report back to you, so that you can choose whether youβre a rich surgeon or a poor surgeon. Regular. Now you have peace of mind knowing things are working well, and there are issues to address, but it's no longer guesswork or hoping everyone is doing what they're paid to do.
It's a system to know everyone is on their game and you know, the health of your practice on any given day. There is a lot more to running your practice like a business. So, it's a well-oiled machine that can run without you, but this will get you started. Of course, let me know if I can help you to figure out if you are a rich surgeon or poor surgeon. Just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com and we can set up a time to talk.
Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz on the topic of are you a rich surgeon or a poor surgeon.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
Announcer: We hope you've found a valuable insight on this episode of Beauty and the Biz. For more episodeβs tools and Catherine's free book. Visit www.CatherineMaley.com. That's www.CatherineMaley.com and be sure to subscribe, to get the latest practice building strategies delivered to you.
And don't forget to share this Beauty and the Biz podcast with your staff and colleagues.
-End transcript for the βAre You a Rich Surgeon or Poor Surgeonβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#richsurgeonpoorsurgeon #worklessinyourpractice #selfrunningpractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Spiegel went from hospital to large practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "From Hospital to Large Practice β with Jeffrey Spiegel, MD".
Dr. Jeffrey Spiegel, a board-certified facial plastic surgeon in Boston had a nice set up in the hospital that became like a cocoon of comfort and certaintyβ¦.until it wasnβt.
It started with an itch to grow and a frustration with the lack of control over his own fate, so Dr. Spiegel took action.
He read the Harvard Business Review, My Book π, and lots of others on management, marketing and economics.
He talked to others, scoped out a great location in Boston to set up shop, hired consultants and opened his own 9K square foot practice plus multiple OR suites surgical center.
His private practice occupies the first floor, and a separate business for his surgical center is on the second floor used by him and other surgeons who practice nearby. (Check out the 3D Image.)
We talked about the pros and cons of building out your own surgical center, what itβs like working with your wife and the challenges of staff.
Dr. Spiegel also has more of a demand for his services than he can handle. So, heβs looking for additional providers to join him. Feel free to reach out to him if you are a surgeon or an injector looking for a new home.
Visit Dr. Spiegel's Website
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
From Hospital to Large Practice β with Jeffrey Spiegel, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Dr. Spiegel went from hospital to large practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βFrom Hospital to Large Practice β with Jeffrey Spiegel, MD".
So I have a very special guest today who went from hospital to large practice.
It's Dr. Jeffrey Spiegel and he's a board certified facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Boston. Now Dr. Spiegel completed his internship in general surgery and residency in Otolaryngology at the University of California, San Francisco in my neighborhood. And then advanced training was done through Harvard Medical School.
Now he's a full professor and chief of facial plastic and reconstructive surgery. At the Boston University School of Medicine with dozens of award-winning research projects, scientific papers, articles, and book chapters behind his name. Now Dr. Spiegel (who went from hospital to large practice) performs more than 1200 facial plastic surgery procedures per year in his onsite surgical center.
And that includes facial feminization surgery. And we'll talk more about that. Dr. Spiegel, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Hey, thanks Catherine. It's great to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So tell me this, everyone. We always like to start out. How did you end up in private practice? Was it a long journey?
Did you jump right in? What was your, what, what's your story in regards to going from hospital to large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Ah, well, it's it's funny. It was never my intention. I expected to stay in academics my entire career, but It it sort of was a necessity to go into private practice. So what happened was I was at the university Boston university, Boston Medical Center.
My practice was thriving. I, and I kept progressively outgrowing the resources. I would outgrow the amount of office space, a allotted to me. Outrow the number of support staff I could use outgrow. The number of patients one could see outgrow the or time. And I was constantly going to the administration and the chairman and the CEO of the hospital to, to get more resources and justifying it and not to make it an exception, right.
Everybody's supposed to be sort of equal there. I would pay for all these resources on my own. So I'd say I need a patient coordinator cause I have a lot of patients coming from outside of the state. We'd have to go through a lot of hoops and trials and, and we'd get it done. And it would come directly out of my paycheck for that person's salary and benefits, et cetera, and that, and that kept going on for years and we kept growing and growing.
And then the hospital decides we're gonna hire a you know, a podiatrist. So everybody has to give up operative time and I'm already booked out eight months, so slowly but surely it became a necessity to move off. And I did, I, I sort of bought my own space and built it out and I continued to work through the university until eventually they said, you know, it's, what you're doing is, is too busy, too complex for, for us.
And why don't you stay affiliated in the professorship side and, and run your own organization. So that's what I did more than a dozen years ago now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And then how, if, I mean, you're on a major real estate there that put the cost a little bit, huh? How did that affect your success in going from hospital to large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Oh yeah. It's initial office that we had. We're our location after leaving university and the first location we rented thousand square feet of space of which a thousand was.
On street level and a thousand was basement level underneath where we had sort of administrative things. And now we have a building that we work out of just shortly down the road from where we were before. And we use just under 9,000 square feet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For those of you who haven't seen it, you need to go to his website, I'll give it to you later.
He has a 3d video of his large space that does amazing facelifts and facial feminization surgeries and it's pretty impressive, especially coming from a hospital setting.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Oh, thank being in the middle of Boston. I mean, that had to cost that, well, fortunately we it made it made sense for us to do it this way. I was I've always been uncomfortable with the idea of. Not controlling my own fate.
And so that was the reason to go into private practice. Right? So at the university, like I said, they could say, we're gonna reduce your operative time. We're gonna reduce the number of clinic rooms you have access to. And I didn't have much recourse, but now that's not an issue. Now I, I can control my own or time can control my own schedule and.
When we're not leasing, we're not, someone's gonna someone can't come to us and say, you know, at the end of your lease, I know you did this big build out, but in eight months, we're turning it into a Chick-fil-A. You have to go. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good job. So regarding going from a hospital to a large practice you did a great talk in Miami recently about having your own surgical center.
And so many of the surgeons are on the fence. Should I, should I, should I, you know, should I still beg for time at a surgery center or hospital? Or should I build out my own now that you have both sides to that coin, what are the pros and cons of each.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Well, the, the cons of the surgery center are, are very straightforward.
They are you own it. You have to deal with it. And there are regulations and regulations and regulations on the regulations. You know, we have three ring binders filling shelves with all the things we need to do to maintain. And we use quad ASF certification. You need to get every electrical outlet, checked, everything needs to be of a certain standard and, and protocols and drills and reviews.
And, and I think the other thing is you have to take it seriously and recognize that, you know, if you're at a hospital and you're doing a procedure, a serious procedure and something starts to go wrong and it could be as simple as. The instruments you like to use breaks. They usually have something else.
They have access, but now you need to have all that redundancy within your own four walls in order to be safe. And, and you have to kind of run through that in your head. If something terrible happens, what am I gonna do? And, and we've had a, a couple of a couple of times, even, you know, which I also spoke about that meeting in Miami, where we have procedures we're doing where something starts to go awry and it's.
That we did something wrong necessarily. I was just, this is something that can happen in a rare case. And now I have to go to the closet and take out the equipment that I never use, but I have it in case that one time occurs and it does so that those are the cons. Oh, and then also it's very expensive.
You need to have staff staff space and equipment you know, beds, if you want a surgical microscope, like I have that's, that's a six figure purchase. The pros of course are what I hinted at, which is that you, you control your own destiny. I have the ability to operate more or less whenever I want.
And I'm busier than ever, but I'm not booked out eight months because I can. Add on a day, I can say, let's go upstairs and, and do it this way or that way, or stay longer or, or start earlier, or and on the flip side for your lifestyle, if you say, oh, you know what, on Tuesday have to take my kid to special assembly at school at eight in the morning, let's start the, or at nine, you can do that.
That's not really possible at the hospital.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So in looking back now, are you glad you did it in regards to going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Oh my gosh. So glad. Yeah. So glad. That being said, there is probably something in the middle, which is even better, which is if someone in your neighborhood has a surgery center so my surgery center has three ORs, so we call it Newton surgery and we have a website for it.
Newton surgery.com and there's three ORs. And there are a number of other plastic surgeons in the area who had the same problems. I. And they come and operate here. And that's what we focus on is plastic surgery and facial plastic surgery. So it's a nice experience. And the person coming in for a facelift is not in the waiting room next to somebody, you know, with a bleeding, open leg, or who's there for, you know an appendectomy or a hand surgery or something, or, you know, an eye surgery, something that makes them feel kinda like they're in a place for sick people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Has that been difficult or challenging to manage other surgeons expectations in terms of going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: It, it can be, except that I think when you're one of them, you kind of get it. Right. So I, I know more or less what they want, which is, you know, seamless, quiet, smooth. And you know, no drama, everything predictable, reliable, nice experience for their patients, not having the nurse in, in the PACU say, I'll get to you when I get to you.
I got somebody else over here who needs my attention. You know, one on one. So everybody who's coming through our center gets one on one attention, and it's great for the other surgeons in our neighborhood who use. You know, I'd certainly love it. If somebody across the street had what I have, then I could go over whenever I feel like it too.
Cause we bend over backwards to make it a available. It's not, you know, these things aren't necessarily aren't necessarily money makers for plastic surgery or suites, but they are tremendously good for quality of life and for allowing you to operate when you want to. So in that way, they, they they're really good for your bottom.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It does seem like if you're gonna look at this as a profit center (going from a hospital to a large practice), you're, you're gonna be disappointed. It's much more about what you just said. The quality of life, the freedom actually in the opportunity costs everyone forgets all the hassle. They went through trying to find space elsewhere.
The patient's hassle because they have to pay differently with you than them. And it's. All of that adds up. And I think it also is the hassle factor. As you get older, you just don't wanna hassle with all of that. So if you can make your life easier too. But how did you know how to do it? I just was talking to a surgeon and he just spent millions doing the build out and guess what happens?
He doesn't know that they have to have two lobbies. So now they're back under construction again, and yeah. And I thought, oh dear, well, how does that happen? So any pearls about who you need to work with to make sure you're dotting your eyes and crossing your Ts?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Yes, you, you need to, so I'll tell you what I did.
What I did is. Researched and found a consulting group who walks you through the process and who, you know, helps whoever is the resource on your end to make sure that you're gonna be qualified and certified. And then the next most important part, perhaps the most important part is to find an individual who is of that personality, which means like the we've had two people running our ORs.
From construction time until now. And the, the woman who ran it for construction, she was recently out of the military where she was in like the military health Corps and. Regulations following the rules, checking off boxes, adhering to standards. This is in her blood and it was, you know, very comfortable for her and it didn't feel like she was, she wasn't stressed out at this.
She, she understood the idea of the final inspection and getting things done according to code and the, the woman we have running it. Is similarly skilled at keeping all those kinds of things in the front of your mind. But the, the consulting firm is valuable because they have experience and they are there to.
Say, okay, you're gonna need a checklist for this or that. And they send it to you and you don't have to build it from scratch or things like that. Now we've also simplified things quite a bit, and I think we've educated our consulting firm on a lot of best practices and, and there's a lot of new technology out there.
That's very helpful. For example, something as simple as a blanket warmer for patients in surgery and after surgery, you have to have a temperature. And so you can spend a lot of, you know, man hours logging that, or you can go on Amazon and get a remote control app, logging the temperature out a report variations by weekly, monthly, yearly.
You need for your inspection. So few you can do to simplify yourβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: How is the situation with the staff the surgical staff versus the office staff. Are you having any issues in regards to going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: No, we have, we've created a separate corporation for the, or it's a, and this was it. It's separate in the following ways. It's a separate business entity.
It is, has separate management and has separate signage and it even has a separate door. I decided that was critical, LLC -
Catherine Maley, MBA: As well, separate LLC, completely different profit center, in regards to going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: It's a completely. Business and that that's critical for number one, having other plastic surgeons feel comfortable using it because, you know, Dr. Smith doesn't wanna have his patient walk into the operating room at Dr. Spiegel's office. That seems weird, but it's okay. If Dr. Spiegel happens to have his office in the same building as the surgery center that you use. So that's, that was a, a big part of it there, and then The staffs get along very well.
But what is challenging with staff is the transition as you get busier. So when you're first opening this up, you're gonna be operating somewhere hospital or, or some other entity. And there's this moment where you wanna switch to your site. But if you're very busy, like we are, you may not feel comfortable, kind of turning it on and off.
You might not feel comfortable that, you know, 30th of the month you're done at the hospital. And the first of the next month, you're starting at your center full speed, full time. Cause you kinda have to ramp up and see how comfortable you are. And so you have all this staffing complication as far as, when is your staff full time?
How many of them were per diem in the beginning? And there's a tremendous expense at. You know, five people on full-time staff doing nothing until you're busy. .
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So regarding the other side apart from going from hospital to large practice procedures, the admin side, I know you gave a talk on staff and it was really good. And you had talked about how you had address a staffing issue that was occurring during COVID.
Do you wanna just touch on that light?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Well, COVID was very unique time. Of course we didn't we didn't furlough anybody from here. We kept everybody on full salary throughout COVID. But we did have challenges, people not wanting to do their work remotely, you know, and, and fortunately, remote work is.
A thing of the recent past and hopefully not future in, in our field. I know in a lot of fields, people don't wanna go back, but of course, what we do, you really need to be on site. For most positions. We still have some administrative type roles who can work from home part of the weekend and do, and we've had no problem with that.
But in general, I think the biggest staffing, no staffing is the biggest challenge for all of us in all of our offices, especially in 2022, where finding good staff is harder than ever. And quite frankly, a lot of staff have a different idea of what work is then what the physicians and maybe other types of healthcare workers.
Have as an idea of work. So I've had staff say to me you know, I don't understand why in the summer we have to have the office open on Fridays. Wow. You know, or, you know, why can't we just shut down if the weather's nice. Well, you know, cause it's a doctor's office , you know, and the weather's nice. You can still go get a cup of coffee somewhere and that's just a coffee.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, I hear you. I know you had said you were losing some staff, I think, to the hospitals and you had to up the wages and is that oh yes. The point or the case or� How has that affected your success in the realm of going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Well, during the last, you know, year or, or so there's been a tremendous shakeup as you know, and a lot of people left the job market and a lot of people decided that because of that, they could be Paid more than the position traditionally was.
So there's been a great realignment in in salaries and benefits for staff at all levels. And with or staff and nurses in particular during during the COVID times when, when nurses were in such high demand at the hospitals they were getting paid ridiculous sums. So I guess they weren't ridiculous.
Those were the sums necessary to recruit these people. You know, multiples of what had been standard salaries for those positions up till a few months before. And you either adapted or you found yourself closed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So I'm just, I'm hoping this ends soon, cuz it doesn't make any sense in regards to going from a hospital to a large practice. Physically, emotionally, logically I agree.
Business wise, it doesn't make any sense that so many people don't need a job. So you have to overpay those who will actually work. And it can't last. We we're not built like that here in America and I, I hope it's over soon.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Oh, I agree with you. You, you would hope so. And it's the big question, right?
Where did everybody. And why is it that people no longer need to work? Right. And, and how is it that everybody, how is it that restaurants, for example, have raised their prices by 70% around us and, and yet you still can't get a table right. All of that doesn't seem to fit together, but the economists will explain it to us next year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, dear God. Yeah, I hope so. So on my, my tip, my HR tip is when you're looking at people and they have that two year vacation on there. They're always going to say they, they took care of their mother. You know, they had a sick mother just as a tip off that they, they definitely had have been chilling, you know, good or bad.
It's just something. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So not tell me that's a good. I've been looking on your βfrom hospital to large practiceβ website and your Instagram. How, how involved is your wife in your practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Very, yeah. And I feel very, very lucky about that. My wife is also a doctor. She has two doctorates actually. And. She does a ton of the administrative work for our office.
She is very, she is, she's a great chief operating officer. Nice. Everyone gets things done. She. You know, we, we have meetings, we talk about things and then she's really the one who is outstanding at, at motivating our team and helping them stay on deadline and making sure that things move forward.
So, you know, when, when you have a spouse or family member who works in your office, typically, you know, that their incentives are aligned with yours, that they. The organization's success and they're not gonna suddenly say goodbye, which is, which is a, a big problem in, in today's world. Again, a lot of younger people in particular feel that if they've been at a job for two years, they need to move to enhance their resume.
Otherwise someone will think their stale. And for those of us who are hiring, when we see people who've been jumping around every 18 months or two years, you think, gosh, you can't keep a job. But there's just a different alignment here in values. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And so she's not part of the going from a hospital to a large practice procedures, she's all on the admin side?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: I was thinking, no, no, no.
She also does the majority of our aesthetic services. That's what I thought. Fillers lasers. She's she's outstanding. She's been Rated one of the top 25 people in that field in the United States. And she's she's tremendously skilled at all of that and is a huge asset. So I'm just, I'm just lucky.
The, the problem of course, is that for anybody else watching this, that's one of those, well, you know, gosh, I didn't marry someone who does that or is good at that. So it seems like an. An unfair advantage perhaps it is it is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you see that coming, like when you were dating her, did, did you OK?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: No, I did not.
I did not expect it at all. Never anticipated it and frankly, I was at the university full time at that point. So the idea of having an office. On my own, never was a dream. Although I, it it's been a very good experience. There's this seven year itch concept that people have of the famous movie.
But I think people get that professionally too. I think you get this kind of boredom or complacency after a certain number of years. So after enough time at the university, I kind of. I'd already advanced academically to the limit I could. And I, my practice had grown to the amount it could there. So it was either stay here forever and just kind of chug it out or take on a new challenge.
So opening our office and in the surgery center this has been the new challenge it's been great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then do you have plans for adding how many revenue generators that relate to going from a hospital to a large practice do you have and do you have plans for adding a partner, an associate, any of.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Let me, let me say it to whoever's watching here. You want a job?
Come see me. I, I can't, I can't move. We're so busy. We get thousands of patient inquiries a year. We cannot see them all. We cannot do all the procedures and I would be. Extremely happy to bring on another facial plastic surgeon, a person who's more interested in body, plastic surgery and possibly even someone who wants to do in aesthetics and injectables because we are already, already swamped.
Cause right now it's basically within the SPI center, which is the practice. There's just the two of us. My wife and I and then the surgery center has me and the other doctors who use it, but I'm, I'm still the primary user I use the most hours.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. You heard it here? Yeah, please, for a, a new going from a hospital to a large practice position in a great city.
I love you are tomorrow. Okay. So if you need so out, this is great. Sure. So let's see what happens now. Let's talk about marketing because you haven't, you seem to have had an unlimited patient supply. So where are these patients coming from and how did you pull that?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Predominantly it's word of mouth.
The, what happened was early. I think what happened for me, which was. A benefit was early on in the days of the internet. I had a patient come to me for a procedure and they wanted to get a break if they'd make me a website. And it's like, who has a website who needs a website would need that? What is that?
I'm in the yellow page in the university listing. But I said, oh, what the heck? You know? So, so they made me a little website. So we've had our website out for a very long. And it gets a lot of traffic and it, it has gotten a lot of traffic for a long time. And then what happened early on again, in the days of long before anybody did SEO or had any company doing SEO for them, or even before it was a field?
I had a patient who was a computer person and I did her surgery and she was. And then a couple months later said, oh, everything's gone bad. I said, oh my gosh, come back to Boston. She was from outta town and I'll take a look. She came back and I looks pretty good, but alright. Yeah, I see your thoughts.
And I fixed everything for her adjusted for her. And then she was so happy and then a couple months later happened again. I'm not happy. She came back this time. Like, gosh, everything really is perfect, but I'll do a. Stitch here a little shot there, make you happy. She went away in it just as you thought she was happy.
And then two months later unhappy again. So I said, listen, there is nothing left. And I was, this is 20 years ago and I'm like, all right, this, this is on me now. I'm not getting that you have some sort of body dysmorphia or just cannot see it, or it's something else. And you know, I eventually figured out that she was unhappy that the guy she liked didn't Didn't care for her anymore than before, even after she had changed her appearance, but she thought it would.
And so a bunch of mistakes there, but I wouldn't fix it. I said, there's nothing left to do. You need to seek help a different way. And so she made a website which was something like, I hate Dr. spiegel.com. This is before. You could go online and leave a bad review for someone anywhere. There were no review websites.
And so if someone was looking for me, they found this site, which was like a, a site to trash me and She put up pictures of herself before and at each stage of the surgery and talked about how she went to see me and I offered to fix it. But then eventually I didn't. And that led to me getting very, very busy because people would look for me, find her sight, read it in morbid curiosity and be like, oh, well, she actually looks really good.
There's something wrong with the way she's seeing he. I'll go see that guy. And so that actually helped me grow quite a bit. So it's sort of funny. So that was a big boost and it's been primarily word of mouth ever since we do close to nothing in terms of advertising. We we have a, a social media presence across multiple channels, which I think is necessary as a means of proving your existence.
If you if you think about your own behavior, if. Someone says to you, there's a great restaurant in Marin county. You, you ought to go to this restaurant and you go, what's it called? And you look it up online. If they didn't have a website, you'd be like, there's something fishy there. I'm not going. And if they, if you go on Facebook and they don't have a page, even if it's ignored, you'd be like, that's sort of funny.
And then if you go on Instagram and they don't exist, you'd be like, well, they must not be that trendy and, and so on and so on. So it's, it's kind of just proof that you're the real deal and that you are a contend. I don't think you need to be like some of the clowns out there. And there are some internet clowns who are, you know, making videos all day of, of dancing or acting or singing or things that are kind of entertainment rather than medical.
But, you know, if that's what they, like, I, you know, good for you, but I don't think you necessarily need to be that person, but you do need to exist. That's proof of some that existence.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's such a balance between educating (especially when it comes to going from a hospital to a large practice) and entertaining, and then you need some kind of a call to action. Like you're not doing this just to spend your afternoons doing this and videotaping and coming up with ideas.
The whole point is to. Ingratiate yourself and, and get somebody to know you so well that they're willing to come see you. And they trust you so much that when they, when they actually finally meet you, they think you are a celebrity. That, that's how, I mean, there's a point to all of this and it's getting, I think everyone's losing their focus because like, for example a lot of people now are doing Instagram and it took a minute, like, you know, cause it's not surgeons, aren't naturally actors or entertainers, you know, you're much.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Yeah. Well, so most are well you're right. Not, not, not necessarily. So you're right. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But then now you're used to like, OK, I'll I'll show, like I'll take pictures with my patients and my staff, and now everything's real and that's video. And I don't know if you've noticed, but if you try to go to social media now, there's not gonna let you just scroll.
They're gonna make you watch all these little videos and frankly, they're. Freaking addicting. I can't even do it because I'm lost for 30 minutes watching things. I don't even who cares, you know, I don't need to do any of that. I, I get mad at myself, but then I think if this is where we're heading and now like so many doctors, I know now have videographers on staff.
Now they have to have like creative marketing directors. because you have to come up with some idea. You had a really cute one a couple years ago and it was so cute. It had a really cool music vibe to it. You were all in the, or all of you and all like people would at a time or something. That was so cool in relation to going from a hospital to a large practice.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Oh yeah, I remember that. And what you said is right, and, and in marketing, there's, there's different types of marketing and. You you, when you hire a marketing firm, which we haven't, but I've read up about this on my own. There, you have to think about how are you going to differentiate your yourself or your product or your service.
And sometimes you try to differentiate it on something that you think is the case and it, it doesn't work. And famously there was the Pepsi challenge, the Coke versus Pepsi challenge. And Pepsi tried to say, oh, you know, in blind taste test people preferred our taste. Okay. Nobody cared enough because Coke was great and Pepsi was fine and nobody cared or burger king used to try this.
Our French fries are better than McDonald's no us for improved taste, but people liked McDonald's French fries, McDonald French fries. Yeah. So they were trying to distinguish themselves. On quality of the product. Now McDonald's, you'll notice, never does this in their advertising. They're the segment leader in fast food and they, they don't distinguish themselves on this.
All of their advertisements are, have a nice day. It's McDonald's. You deserve to have a nice day, you know, it's, everyone's smiley and happy here happy. And what they're doing is creating a feel so that you associate their. With a feeling and they're not making claims about we're better. And, and a lot of times what happens with plastic surgeons is especially young ones is you get out and you have this need to compete.
And this sense of you know, probably a little bit of a sense of am I really capable of this? And so it's a lot of what I do is better. I'm the only one who can do this. Everybody else is bad. I'm better, better, better. Really anybody who's in practice and succeeding is delivering a nice, solid, you know outcome.
You, you don't stay in practice if you're doing bad work. And, and so saying something is so much better is often not really the case. And so you might want to think about that when you go on social media and you just wanna distinguish kinda the feel like people who come here are happy. Or this is a fun place, or I like mountain biking or whatever your thing is.
And then people might say, oh, I relate to that doctor. She likes mountain biking. I do too. And, and so it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, we're the only one who knows this magical stage, right? It can be, this is a nice fun place with pretty normal people and, and people who are looking for a nice fun place with pretty normal people will find that to be a good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I think a typical facelifts and facial feminization cosmetic patient, they actually a typical, not the, the ones who have researched every, every CD on the phone. Yeah. But the typical one, they really just care that they like you. Like, I, I think, I don't know if they just assume that you're a surgeon. You're probably good at that, but.
It goes beyond that. It's about, it's way more about personality and do I connect with him and do I like him, you know? And do I like his staff and and I guess that's fine because you're right. If you, if you're a surgeon practicing in today's world I don't think you're gonna last long if you're not a good surgeon.
So, and if you're a board certified of there's a good chance, you're a fine surgeon. It's just the other part. You've gotta work on the marketing part and the people skill that's right. Become a really big deal. So regarding differentiating yourself, you mentioned that, and then I thought like big that, that, how, what are the challenges of that for going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Well I suspect we are the world leaders in this. We've been doing this. 20 plus years with a tremendous volume and a lot of academic output. And we see a lot of patients for this. It fits my. Personality and professional interests. Well, in that the type of surgery involves a lot of cranial and bone surgery, which I enjoy.
And I like the impact it has on people's lives, where it's, it's a very meaningful, fundamental change. And I also like. The questions, it answers in appearance. Meaning if you can understand how a person is perceived a certain way, like why is that? You can look at a face and know their gender. How do you look at a face and know their age?
How do you look at their face and know who you're seeing? I haven't seen you for several months, but I recognized you immediately, when you came up on the. And, you know, you weren't wearing the same dress at that time. So it's something in the face that you use to identify a person. So these kinds of fundamental questions appeal to my academic interests.
So it's been a, it's been a nice fit. And then I think what happens is from a qualifications stand. People see that you do this and they'll say, oh, wow. Well, if you can help that person who looked male, look female, then certainly you can help me with my nose, which has above or help me look younger or, you know, whatever it is.
So I think it's it's qualifying in some ways.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I have seen different aspects of that. Sometimes it can be a little polarizing and I will tell you there, like I know a surgeon in the UK and he was a, a plastic surgeon and then he started doing lots of transgender or little transgender. And because of the word of mouth he got from that he became a hundred percent.
Transgender, because number one, he actually said, these patients are amazing. They're so appreciative. And I think he liked that way more than just working with the cosmetic patient. So he just went full on transgender and he's been busy ever since. So but I've also seen other practices that have dabbled in both and that.
It, it hasn't gone smoothly, you know? And I don't know if you have to, I don't think you have to put your, you know, flag in the sand and say, okay, I only work with transgender, but it is, it is, it can be polarizing, you know, you're just trying to figure out like you have mature women who wanna face.
facelifts and facial feminization rejuvenation, you have that young 20 year old who doesn't know what the heck they want, but they know they wanna re and then you have the chance drag. And I'm just saying like, we, we, human beings are not all alike. We have the same innate human needs, but they come out so differently and represent differently that how do you manage, you know, so like three huge, different target markets.
How do you manage that in relation to going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Well, that's very difficult to do. And, and it poses an important point, which you said, which. You have to feel comfortable. I think for the most part, giving things up, you go, you, when you first practice learned everything, I that's, you groove, I'm seeing of amount of rhinoplasty and I'm getting comfortable with it.
Maybe, maybe it's okay to stay there and, and give something up. Transgender surgery, I would say is not something or gender confirmation surgery is not something to, to dabble in. In that the it's a, it's a little bit different technically. The patient needs are very specific and it requires you know, I think a, a certain degree of.
Of commitment. If you have that commitment, the it's not hard to do to get your office ready in that you simply follow the golden rule. Right? Treat everybody as you would wanna be treated yourself and you're gonna succeed. And I think the best thing about being in practice, you know, after so many years is.
You can be yourself. I do you know, I like comedy. I like music. I like joking and singing. And you know, eventually you realize you can't, you said doctors, aren't actors a lot of the time and you're right. And, and I'm not interested in acting a role other than being myself. So I joke with my patients, I, you know, sing during their surgeries when they're awake and.
You know, it just helps me enjoy my day and my, my work and my life. And I think that's very important. So you just find what you're comfortable with and that's a great, that's gonna be the way it sits me ultimately.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. There's something else you do. That's very unusual. You have other doctors on you, you videotape, you know, conversations with other surgeons.
What's that all about? Cause that's very interesting.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Well, There's a few parts to that for the main thing, is that every starting during COVID, when we, we here in Massachusetts were shut down for essentially three months where we were you know, the office was closed, could not be open March to June, 2020.
And during that time period, my wife said, maybe I'll start. Talking to people online and we'll have a conversation. And she did she called it one on one at 1:00 PM, I think. And so, you know, every nobody was working, so 1:00 PM was fine time to have a little conversation, sort of like what we're doing.
And they did this and it was a nice way to. Kill the time there was no there were no medical meetings going on, so you could kinda share ideas, talk to people, have conversations. And and that went nice. Then when everything reopened, of course, most plastic surgeons and cosmetic surgeons got very busy.
So. 1:00 PM was not a good time for anything. So for the last couple years, she's been doing a nine minute interview program at 9:00 PM on Wednesday nights on Instagram. So you go to at Dr. Spiegel, Dr. Spiegel and there's every Wednesday night, she does this live program where she'll interview someone usually from a geographically diverse area.
We've had people from Australia all over the place and they are people in aesthetics, whether they're. Physician a surgeon, a nurse injector, someone specialing in antiaging medicine, someone who is an industry person. We should have you as a guest, in fact. And she's been doing that for a couple years.
She told me that I'm now have, I now have to be a host twice a month. It's it's lot of work. So she wants to share, share the load. There that's one disadvantage of having your spouse in your practice your office manager, otherwise wouldn't tell you that. So. So I'll be doing more and more of them, but yeah, it's nice.
We, we get online, we share ideas and it's, I think a nice way for colleagues to learn things, but also for patients to see you know, these people you might think of as competitors are actually very friendly and they're, they're not out, they're not cut through at people. They're out there sharing their ideas and trying to advance the.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I thought that was the nicest part. I thought, see, all surgeons are not fighting with each other, some actually get along and work together. And there's plenty for everybody. And you know, that kinda mindset.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Plenty for everybody. We have too much. Remember that part where I said, please come join us. I wanna reiterate that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you that's a great opportunity. Your large practice office is gorgeous. I'll just say it one more time. You have to see the 3d tour of his large practice office. It's this huge diagram. And he, and you can Move the, the arrow. So you can walk through his office. Can I walk through the office? Yeah. Later. Yes. And it's 9,000 square feet on a really killer street in Boston.
My Lord that had to cost money since going from a hospital to a large practice. So you're not even from Boston.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Are you? Well, I'm from new England originally from Connecticut. So the, the Eastern half of Connecticut thinks of itself as a suburb of Boston and the Western half is a suburb of. Okay. Good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so tell me, let's talk about the going from a hospital to a large practice mindset. What, what has driven you to go from academia, where you are in a nice, safe cocoon to 9,000 square feet in killer real estate in a very competitive arena and not just enter that world, but really build a little kingdom in that world.
How, what, what did you need to, to get to that? What did you need to learn to think, to do and how it all relates to going from a hospital to a large practice?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Ah, great questions. You know, there was so much to learn and I'm still learning every. I started off just aggressively reading. I read Harvard business review. I read and bought Harvard business review summary books, which were great.
I read your books. Thank you. I read books by authors about six Sigma about lean techniques, about management, about time tactics, about market. And you know, most plastic surgeons are, you know, have a lifetime love of learning and are spent the first 30 something years of their lives in school and intensively reading and studying.
And so it's natural as a, as an interest. And like I told you earlier, when you get. Little bit of a, of an itch in your current position, you think, well, let me learn something new and if that's an interest for you, I also read basic economics books. I didn't really study economics in school. I regret that.
I think that it's a fascinating field and I wish I had read more. So I read books you know, fundamental, basic economics books by Thomas sole and the. And I find them very interesting. So you, you take all that together and then you trust yourself. You say, you know, doctors are, for the most part are pretty capable people with good executive function and good understanding of things.
And, and so you can take what you read and then you take a chance.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. And half of success coming from a hospital to a large practice is also failing, but I don't call it failing. It's just feedback. You try something yet. It doesn't work. No problem. You try something else. That is, that is how you do success.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Oh, we just had a, we just had a huge failure.
We, we were changing we, we were changing some company who works with us on our website and I thought I found a real secret because there's something called white label. Which I didn't know about. It turns out that a lot of the SEO companies you hire are really sort of a front or a face and they off, they offloaded the SEO to a white label group.
So I thought, fabulous. I've discovered this little secret of theirs. I'll hire the person to actually doing the work. Exactly. Yeah. That didn't go well for us, you know, we didn't get the, not having that, that middle man there. Limited their responsiveness and their, their ability to, you know, perform where we needed them to.
So we've undone that. And that's a mistake that I learned. I, I thought it was such a great business innovation, but it was the opposite. So we're, we're constantly, you know, one step forward half a step back, but going forward. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Of any last words of wisdom in regards to going from a hospital to a large practice? And by the way, everyone, remember, there's a job opening there for you in Boston.
Yeah. Right.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: That's my words of wisdom
Catherine Maley, MBA: For anyone who wants to get out of the hospital and into a large practice, I'll level their practice, because I have to tell you something, not every plastic surgeon thinks like you do. Here's here's my theory, a majority of them are so sick. The, the learning, like, I think they've had enough of it and they finally got to their practice, they set it up and I think they're, they just exhaled and said, this is, this is all I want, I just want this.
I don't need to be the lion in the jungle. And they don't wanna learn anymore. Like they, they just kind of, but they're just, they just wanna coast. And then there's this other group, like you who are still thinking and striving and learning and growing in the βfrom hospital to large practiceβ market. And how else can I do something or how else can.
Grow this thing. So, but so not there, there are all sorts of different personalities out there.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: You're right. And, and both are great. You know some people are, are never satisfied and always looking to, to change and other people, and perhaps they're much luckier are completely satisfied with where they are and have hit that spot where they're super, super comfortable and, and pleased with their physician and, and what could be better.
Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So no words of going from a hospital to a large practice wisdom?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: No, just I think, you know, exhale, like you said we're, it's a good field. People will come do good work aim for singles. I was always taught when you first start out. I think anybody watching this video is already interested in learning. And and growing. So, you know, read things and don't believe everything you read.
There's a lot of things that when I go to the conferences I hear, and I go good for you that, that works for you. That would never work for me. Never. We've tried that certain things we, we hear about fabulous results doing this or that. And we come back excited and we try, it's a total fizzle. So you know, try things, but don't feel bad about trusting your own guts.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you as a consultant for the last 22 years, I have seen one doctor will say this absolutely does not work for me yet. I know for a fact it works beautifully for some other doctor. And then you say, why is that? And there's all sorts of reasons why, but it's true. Like, I, sometimes it works for that group and sometimes it doesn't work for another group.
So, and I, you know, isn't there a 50, 50 to life. Like it's always this on the one hand, it's this on the other hand. Cause then I feel like I live in that world because they'll say to me, oh like they're like a, it's a fact, it's an absolute fact that Facebook ads don't work for example, yet. I know for a fact that they do work somewhere else.
So it's like, well, I dunno, you know, I don't, I never even know what they, then I say, well, you know what, try it. If it doesn't work, you know, stop. But I will tell you before you close your mind to the opportunities, think it out first, think, you know, be rational, think about it. But I just like to try things first before, especially when it relates to going from a hospital to a large practice.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: I say no, that's a good point.
And you know, I do have one last word of wisdom, which. Which is you have to decide who you're gonna be in a way, and it's your choice. So for example, there are the doctors who are the on Groupon. They are the doctors who are not they're the doctors who are moderate priced. They're the doctors who have.
Astronomical prices you think? I don't know. Didn't know there was anyone in the world willing to pay that for that service and it's okay. And if you think about it, who do you wanna be? Would you rather be Hyundai or would you rather be rolls Royce? If you're a car manufacturer? Well, Hyundai makes a nice, solid, reliable car there do not have the posh or the brand name of rolls.
Royce Hyundai makes a lot more money each year than rolls Royce. They sell a lot more cards and they're worth a lot more as a comp company, but maybe your ego is I need to be rolls Royce in that case. Fine. Just understand what comes with that. You can't be both. You can't be everything to everyone.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you better back it up.
If you're gonna charge five times more than the other guy (especially going from a hospital to a large practice), and you better be able to logically and emotionally be able to get that patient to that punchline, you know, like why are you five times more? And if you can back it up, go for it, but it, but you just, I think you better answer that question for yourself first.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: Totally right. Rolls Roy and the Hyundai will both travel you from place to place in safety. Rolls Royce's experience is nicer in some ways on the road, more bells and whistles, but you know, like I said, there's pluses and minuses teach.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm going with the Aston Martin. I think that is the coolest car just saying. Yeah.
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: So super car, not quite as reliable as some others though. So there's always a catch, right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm just saying it's cool. So if anybody would like to get ahold of Dr with your job application, please. I email, he's at www.DrSpiegel.com. And Spiegel is spelled S P I E G E L. And what is your email?
Jeffrey Spiegel, MD: drspiegel@drpiegel.com. drspiegel@drspiegel.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's easy enough. Easy. Right. Thank you. Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion on going from a hospital to a large practice.
Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz. A big thanks to Dr. Spiegel for sharing his insight on going from a hospital to a large practice.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βFrom Hospital to Large Practice β with Jeffrey Spiegel, MDβ Podcast.
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#multisurgeonpractice #paulparkermd #paulmparkermd #drpaulparker #parkercenter #addanothersurgeon #surgicalpartner
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to add another surgeon to your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Add Another Surgeon to Your Practice β with Paul M. Parker, MD".
You add other surgeons to your practice for all sorts of reasons. For example,
- You want them to share in expenses
- You have enough demand to share
- You want to slow down
Or, you want to set yourself up to have a profitable exit when the time comes.
On this weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast, I interviewed Dr. Paul Parker of Parker Center for Plastic surgery located in Paramus, NJ.
Dr. Parker is a board-certified plastic surgeon with more than 30 years of experience and 35K surgical procedures under his belt. He owns his 14,000 square foot building in an excellent location with a fully accredited surgical suite, as well as a busy med spa.
Heβs actually looking for a board-certified plastic surgeon to join his practice, with the intention of taking over down the road so, if interested, check him out at www.ParkerCenter.net.
We talked about who would make a good partner to join a well-run and successful practice and the personality characteristics needed.
Visit Dr. Parker's Website
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Add Another Surgeon to Your Practice β with Paul M. Parker, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to add another surgeon to your practice. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and profits. Now I have a very special guest today.
It's Dr. Paul Parker of Parker Center for Plastic Surgery, located in Paramus New Jersey. Now, Dr. Parker is a board-certified plastic surgeon with more than 30 years of experience and more than 35,000 surgical procedures under his belt. Now he did a full five-year residency in general surgery and a two-year residency in plastic surgery at NYU Medical Center.
Then six months of plastic surgery training in Manhattan Eye Ear and Throat Hospital, as well as a fellowship in microsurgery at New York University Medical Center's Institute of Reconstructive Plastic Surgery. With a heavy emphasis on innovative methods of breast reconstruction. Now, Dr. Parker is an author of a consumer book for moms who want to get their pre-baby bodies back.
And we'll talk more about that and how to add another surgeon to your practice because it's good. And then he's also a member of numerous professional medical societies and he's received several awards and honor. As a top-rated surgeon by his patients, as well as his peers and for his generous support to the Susan G. Coleman Breast Cancer Foundation, as well as the Alzheimer's New Jersey Organization.
Dr. Parker, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It is a pleasure to have you on to discuss with our listeners on how to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Pleasure to be here. Thank you, Catherine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So just tell me, did you grow up wanting to be a plastic surgeon and eventually add another surgeon to your practice, or did it come to you a little later in.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, I enjoyed science back in high school and I ended up working at a, a local emergency room one summer followed a friend of mine's father, who was an ER doc around that summer.
And yeah, I kind of was hooked from that point on. So, I, I knew I wanted to be a doctor and that kind of set the, set the ball in motion.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But then how did you know it was the specialty was going to be plastic surgery and not emergency? How has that impacted you today on how to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: It was a gradual process. When I when I was in medical school during our, our third-year clerkships, we spent six weeks doing all the various specialties surgery included, and I just found myself drawn to surgery.
So, I, I liked that. One of the one of the fellows. Surgical fellows at the time in in medical school told me if you like surgery, you should go to NYU. That's where I trained. It's a great place. And so, I went up there, I did an externship at NYU, kind of fell in love with the process up there and the place and, and ended up going there for my training.
While I was at NYU. I was doing general surgery initially. And in the course of my third year, I, I realized I did not want to do general surgery for the rest of my life. I did a three-month sub fellowship type thing in in plastic surgery. Fell in love with a variety of plastic surgery. And applied to the program then got into it and started that after I finished my five years at general surgery, which is kind of what we had to do back then, it wasn't the same kind of integrated programs that they had today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then did you, if you could remember that far back, did you immediately join another practice when you graduated or after your fellowship, or did you immediately go out into solo practice? What was your journey? How has that impacted your insight on how to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: It was a little bit crazy to be honest in, in hindsight. I did that fellowship in microsurgery and we had really a good training at NYU.
One of my, one of my fellow trainees in five years at general surgery in plastic surgery. Was a fellow named rich PAEK and he and I were good buddies and we both decided we wanted to go out into, into the hinterlands of New Jersey and do the kind of stuff we were doing at NYU, meaning microsurgery and some sophisticated breast surgery and so forth.
And so, the two of us being newbies wanted to practice together. I remember going to one of the, one of the banks in the medical lending department, and it looked at us and said, you guys, aren't going to make it. You're going to start. That was kind of daunting. But somehow, we were persistent and we went into practice together and then we made a goal of it rich and I were together for, for 14 years.
And at the end of 14 years, he said, you know, I'm done being a doc. I'm burned out. I'm going to go back to NYU now, law school. And it became a lawyer.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's interesting. Yeah. And were you doing all reconstructive at that practice? How has that been useful to you in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, initially, you know, the environment was, was different back then than it is now.
So yeah, we're doing a lot of, a lot of reconstructive and, and slowly built up a cosmetic practice, but it, it certainly took time. And for many years we did a lot of breast reconstruction, a lot of hospital based reconstructive type things.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when did you I know that you own your own building and I would love to hear that story, as well as your thoughts on how to add another surgeon to your practice, and I know the audience would as well.
How did you have the foresight to do that? How did you know where to, did you build it? Did it, was it just available? What's the story there?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah, well we were, we were renting for a number of years and, and then it just you know, it dawned on me that it made sense to own our own building because we would, we would have the equity of the building and in owning our building, it also provided us flexibility to do what we wanted to do as far as expansion down the road.
So, I found an existing building and. We, we ended up buying that it's 14,000 square feet. It's on a main road that can be easily reached from east, west, north, and south. And where we're we comprise the building's 14,000 square feet. We have our medical offices and spa on the top level, which is 4,300 square feet.
And we added a surgical center on the middle level, which is 2300 square feet. And then we have some other medical tenants in the building, but it's, I think it's in hindsight, it. It worked out very well because it gave us the flexibility to expand and, and meanwhile acquire more and more equity in the building.
We also got very lucky along the way because valley hospital, which is a 400-bed hospital in neighboring Ridgewood, New Jersey here decided that they were having a lot of issues with the townspeople in Ridgewood expanding their hospital. And so, they decided to build a brand-new hospital, 400 bed hospital right next to.
So, we have the good fortune of having our, our building right next to valley hospital, and also next to an office building that they acquired. So, it we got a little bit lucky with that one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That is amazing. I can't imagine what the value of that. I mean, it must tenfold. Yeah. Yeah. So, are there any pearls or tips for buying versus renting in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Was there any kind of mathematical equation in your head you're trying to figure out, should I buy or should I just continue to rent any tips on that?
Paul M. Parker, MD: You know, I, I guess maybe I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a surgeon I'm, I'm not an economist or a financial guy, but it just seemed to me that almost like home ownership back then, it made sense to just put your stake in the ground rather pay somebody else, pay yourself and, and the other benefit, I think that was significant was our flexibility that I keep coming back to.
So, I think the, that combination of you know, acquiring equity over time. In, in your space, knowing I'd be in this for a long time and the flexibility were very helpful. And then the, the location, location, location thing that realtors talk about all the time, we got a little bit lucky with that one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a great location. You can't beat it. It's so much traffic going by there. Really good on helping you add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well that we knew about the hospital was the lucky part of the. Yeah,
Catherine Maley, MBA: That, that amazing. By the way, when you were building your surgery center you were probably doing insurance. So, you needed like serious accreditation, any tips on that for building out your own?
Are you glad you did? Was it a pain in the neck? How has that helped you to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, as a pain in the neck you know, Angela, Angela was the one that really shouldered the burden with getting all the credentialing. It still does. It's a lot of dotting eyes, cross ATS, and she's worked with some very good consultants along the way.
They've been helpful to us. So, she sheltered me with that, you know, with that burden. But I think it's, it was the right thing to do. And every step of the way we've been well credentialed and that's never been an issue for us, with insurance companies, with patients. So, I, I think it's the right thing to do as much of a headache as it was now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you still doing insurance cases or what did you end up doing with insurance versus cosmetic? Is that helping you being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. At this point, there's very little insurance. We have a running battle here in the practice because they, they kind of want me to stop doing insurance. I still though enjoy Mo's closures and, and, and that kind of thing, that just, it goes back to my roots, I guess, being a, a reconstructive surgeon early on, I would say if, if I were to handicap it, we'd probably do 98% cosmetic and, and 2% insurance at this.
Simple like Mo's closures and things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Any breast reconstructive or, or. No. Is that helping you on being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: I found I found in our practice that in doing breast reconstruction, we would, the, oftentimes the cases would start a little bit late. Sometimes the breast surgeon would run over and then I'd have to start my case late and call the officer and say, oh, by the way, I'm going to be.
You know, an hour and a half late. And along the way, the women in the office said wait a minute. Now, are, are you going to keep annoying patients? Or are you going to dedicate yourself to try to build a cosmetic surgery practice you keep talking about? So, I, I gave up, I gave up breast reconstruction focused on cosmetic surgery and, and things kind of took off in that light.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I really think just watching doctors try to toggle between the two is very difficult and you just never gain momentum because you're not focused. So, I, I do think in today's world, it's just too competitive to dabble. There are too many competitors who do cosmetic 24 7, like they eat, drink and sleep at, and it's just difficult to do both.
So, I think that's probably the right move for you, especially on being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: For me. I would agree with what you're saying. I think for me that was, that was what I.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now you, you are heavy now, also in nonsurgical. You have a very nice med spa. When did that happen? Like when did you see the writing on that wall? Where huh?
Nonsurgical catching up or how, how did that all unfold in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, we've had a med spa for some time doing neuromodulators and peels. Facials. We've done a lot of man lymphatic drainage massage in our cosmetic patients for a number of years now. That's all been very helpful. I, I suppose that you know, I was intrigued to see how cool sculpting took off.
And as a surgeon, I was kind of amazed really that patients would want to have a procedure that gave them a far lesser result. Then light suction could, could accomplish, but the driver for them, as I talked to patients that observed all this was that they could avoid anesthesia, avoid surgery and avoid a recovery.
And that Tim light bulb went on. So, we started doing cool sculpting and that was really very, very busy in the beginning and seeing how popular that was with patients that kind of led to other non-surgical things that didn't provide a surgical result. But it, it gave patients what they wanted in terms of a, a quicker recovery avoiding surgery per se, and, and, you know, things like that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you feel like you tapped into a new marketplace or do you feel like you had to cannibalize your surgical for the nonsurgical? Has this helped you in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: No, I think it, I think what it's done for us is a few things. I, I think it has, it, it provided entree to the practice for people coming into the spa, wanting nonsurgical, and then Angela and the other women in the spa are, are very good at assessing patients and being very honest with them with that.
They developed a loyal following. And when, when patient. Reach a point where they say, you know, I, when Angela and women assess somebody and say, you know, here's what we can, we can achieve with nonsurgical means. But I think in your case, you are better off with a face lift or you're better off with tummy tuck patients, trust them.
They'll set up a consultation with me and we'll talk about things from the surgical side. So, I think it's really been an augmentation to the surgical practice. The other thing is that, of course, when, when we have surgical patients come in, we have all the surgical patients exposed to the medical spa by getting manual emphatic, drainage, massages, three of them as part of their recovery, they get to know the people in the spa.
They get to trust us and, and like us. And so, they'll come back for their neuromodulators. Fillers and various nonsurgical treatments, bring your friends and family. So, there's really a dovetailing back and forth between surgery and, and non-surgery. And I see it as not.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Now you've mentioned Angela? How does she help in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: She's my right hand. I mean, she's a, she's a nurse. She runs, she runs the office. She kind of takes care of everything. And so, she runs the spa. She has a wonderful group of people that she's trained and work under her. And similarly, she she's cosmetic patients with me. So, then she can she gets to know the cosmetic surgery patients.
And she's very helpful in helping them sort out sometimes their options and their priorities in terms of what they, you know, what they would like to do. She's really a very good student of people. And so, she, she kind of runs things and, and helps the spa helps the practice and really moves things along in the right direction.
Right. Growth.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That, you know what I found in some of the most successful practices, they have that right hand person who is very good at organizational skills, processes, structure HR. And you have that with Angela and I just think that's irreplaceable. So yes. Yeah. Would you say though that, you can concentrate on the surgical more so, although, you know, the business side very well, you know, also, but is it helpful when it comes to staff, are you involved in staff issues like hiring, firing, motivating, where do you fit in with the HR part of your practice? How does this affect your ability to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. I, I am not, I'm not good at hiring. Don't like firing. So, I have nothing to do really with either one of those. When we have someone, we're hiring I'll, I'll meet that person talk to them a little bit to get a feel for them. But Angela is, is much more adept. At, you know, at those things. What I do is I, I interact with the staff a lot I'm in office hours, two days a week.
So, I'm interacting with all of our staff in that regard in the operating room with our staff three days a week. And I've found that by treating people very well and fairly and interacting. And being human with them. We have a very good rapport and I think that, that, that goes a long way. We, we treat our staff like family
Catherine Maley, MBA: You have a beautiful staff and you can, you know how I can tell when you call someone's practice, if the staff answers in a friendly, enthusiastic way versus a board I'm don't want to be here kind of way. It just says so much about the doctor, you know, cause people look at you know, you are, they are representing.
And I, I don't know if they always know that, but they've got to be on their game and your, your staff certainly is. So, give me one big mistake that you made, that you learned a lot from, that others could avoid in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, I don't know that there's one big mistake. I think it takes; it takes time. I mean, don't be, don't be impatient.
It takes time. If I reflect back on, on when we started the practice and how long it took to grow the practice. It takes time and, and I think you just kind of have to stay with it and keep working hard, keep working hard at what you do. You know, I, I, I read a lot. I go to meetings, I talk to friends, I look critically in my results and always pushing myself to try to get to try to get better.
And along the way don't, don't, don't be impatient. Enjoy the ride. Cause life is short.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's Sage advice, but nobody takes it. Especially in today's world and in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice. Everything has to happen right this second. And you just don't have, I mean, when I was first getting into this in year 2000, I was always taught that it takes about 10 years to grow a practice to the point where you're comfortable and today's world, you don't have 10 years.
You've got about a year and I don't know how you can do it that fast. So, I agree if you can be patient. That's what it's going to take anyway, you can be patient or impatient, but it's going to take some time.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. Yeah. I think you know, I, I, I, I never leave the operating room until things look, what I think is perfect.
And when you do that, and you're fortunate that people heal well, who I office hours are just such a pleasure. Cause you have such happy patience. So don't be in a rush, you know, and I, I love most surgeons do, particularly plastic surgeons, love being in the operating room, love enjoying that. So, I kind of savor, savor those moments.
And, you know, at the end of the procedure, if, if I'm doing the breast case, for example, I'll set the patient up and maybe the nip on the a that doesn't look just right. And so, I'll say to theologist, ah, I told you 10 minutes, but you know what, I got to take it down and do it again. And boy, when I see that patient postoperative.
And they look really good. I'm so happy that I did that. And so don't be in a rush.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You mean don't be in a rush day to day in being able to add another surgeon to your practice? I meaning don't be in a rush like year to year.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Both. Both don't be in rush. Yeah. I mean, even if you're in your second year of practice, take down the nipple in the AOL and make it right.
Cause it'll serve you well, short term, long term.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very good advice. So now that you've been around for over 30 years, like, what's your plan? Are you, are you thinking about exiting, growing, scaling? Where, what are your thoughts on that in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. If people tell me, I should be thinking about exiting because you know, friends of mine are retiring, but when I then tell them what I do and how much I enjoy, they say, well, you're not ready.
So, I don't see myself going anywhere soon. We're, we're looking for a younger person to bring in the practice. I'd like to find somebody who. Has the same method that we do that want to work as a, as a team member and enjoy working with everybody. Work hard, play hard is kind of our motto.
And then over time, hand the practice off to this person.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's talk about that for a second. Are you looking for a plastic surgeon, a facial plastic surgeon age, like brand new, been around for a bit. What do you think in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, I think probably, a board-certified plastic surgeon would make the most sense.
My practice is still a very varied practice. I, I do a lot of rhinoplasty facial surgery. I do a lot of breast surgery, a lot of, a lot of body contour, lip, suction, tummy, tucks, body lifts, the kind of things that people need to be trained in, in a plastic surgery training program to be able to assimilate in a practice such as ours.
Someone who's well trained. I, if they're you know, fresh out of practice, I think that's fine. If, if they're a few years in practice, I think that's fine too. Some won't, I'm open to all of those kinds of things. Long as some, as long as someone has the same kind of mindset that, that we do as far as working as a team and hardworking and, and all that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That is the tough part. I think it's so important to take your time, talk about being patient on that one. Take your time, getting the right person with the right mindset. Like for example, what kind of personality traits would the right person have for your practice to help with being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, I think willing to willing to work hard, willing to be critical of your results and try to get better willing to work as a member of the team when patients come in, for example, and they say, oh, thank you, Dr.
Parker, this has been a great experience. I said, well, you know, it's not just me. It's the team. It's, it's these wonderful women around me. And we have a wonderful. And I really enjoy being part of that team. So, I would like the new person to feel like they're part of the team and want to be a part of the team, because to me, that's, that's a critical element of our success for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, anybody who's listening, if you know of somebody there's an, an opening to join a really successful practice that excels at being able to add another surgeon to your practice in a killer location in the east, on the east coast. That would be how, how would they get a hold of you if somebody was, was interested in talking with you about.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Probably reach us at www.ParkerCenter.net.
Catherine Maley, MBA: www.ParkerCenter.net. Gotcha. Okay. Now let's shift gears a bit and talk about marketing in relation being able to add another surgeon to your practice. I, I was going to ask you, how do you differentiate yourself, but there's something I've noticed on your website. And I just love the consumer book. You did. The book is called what to. After you're done expecting your guide to all of the wonderful slash weird things, having a baby does to your body.
How did that come about? And I have, I've seen the book. I've read it. It is so good. It's succinct. It's really interesting. And women would just really get that. So, tell me about the book, how it came.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, we, we, we deal with that population extensively. We have so many young moms who who've come in after having had one and more children and while they enjoy having those young, beautiful babies.
And now, now those young children it can often wreak havoc on the body and we end. Doing a lot of Molly makeovers. And along the way, it just seemed appropriate to address this, this kind of weird thing of pregnancy where you go through these changes in the course of, of that, of that timeframe. It does these weird things to your body and produces these beautiful babies.
And it just seemed like it was worth talking about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And did you write that yourself or was it a ghost writer? Cause it's really great. How has it helped you in being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah, no, we, we, we had, we had somebody help us do that, had a lot of ideas from the women and the people here in the practice and me as well, but then we had someone put it all together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And what kind of feedback are you getting from it in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: We've gotten great feedback. Yeah. I, I wish more people read it because it is, it is kind of a fun, interesting book that, that deals with those issues. I think very nicely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you wanted my 2 cents, I would have that book front end center on the home.
In Instagram, I would be talking about it. I would have the patients talk about it. I would use it almost as a lead magnet, you know, like give your name and number and I'll give you free PDF copy of it. It's just such a good book. I hope to get more hands. If you think about a makeover, a really big decision for a woman to make, it's not, you know, that's not an easy one.
There's a lot of downtime tough recovery. And who's she going to go to the person who wrote the book on. Probably, you know, so anyway, that's, that's my 2 cents, especially in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: So many good ideas here's yet another one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, there's something else you do, and you already mentioned it. One big deal for a cosmetic patient is downtime.
Price is always a big deal, but downtime's also the second runner up. Some offices, when you call them, they'll say, oh, you're going to be down for two months. And you're like two months. What are you talking about? Can't relay around for two months and then other offices say, oh, it's about a week, but you'll be, you know, you'll be up and walking in no time.
When it comes to recovery, I know a lot of patients would pay more to have less recovery and you happen to make a big deal out of it in your practice with your rapid recovery program. So, can you talk about that in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice? Cause that's a great differentiator.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. Well, you know, you you're right. Patients want to come in, have a procedure and get back to things as quickly as possible.
Sometimes there, their lifestyle just doesn't allow them to have surgery. And therefore, the advent of these non-surgical things in our medical spot. But when we talk to them in consultation about surgery it's nice to be able to offer. Trying to get back to rec, trying to get back to daily activities as quickly as possible.
And with that in mind, a number of years ago, we put together this rapid recovery program, these medications that we would give them before, during and after surgery, three manual lymphatic range massages. Those kinds of things that really help speed along speed recovery along the way, you know, and, and as, as time goes on, we're always on the lookout to take things to the next level over the past year or so.
I started adding trans acemic acid to to my local anesthesia, my tain solution. Our anesthesiologist will sometimes give it inappropriate cases and it's made a big difference in terms of reducing swelling and Bru. Additionally, we're starting to use ultrasound guided tap blocks for abdominal to try to help, help that, you know, reduce the pain even more.
So, I think being able to, to Quicken the patient's recovery is really a very helpful adjunct to having a busy cosmetic practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, for sure. I, in several practices I've been to. Instead, like you make it part of your package, it's just part of your surgical package. In other practices, they will literally give them the patient, a list of people in the area who do.
Lymphatic massage, let's say, and they'll charge them three to five grand to do that. And it's so inconvenient for the patient. It's more money that they like probably weren't expecting, hopefully that somebody mentioned that ahead of time, but that for you to keep it all under one roof and show that you care about that patient before, during and after the surgery that's how you've grown a successful.
You know, you've really watched that patient journey. So, congratulations on helping yourself to being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it just, I mean, intuitively just makes sense to do that, to just kind of help guide them through that whole process and, and take ownership of it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, something else you do, that's very different. You have a complimentary consultation and normally I would recommend not doing that.
However, You also have your pricing on your website and you're not cheap. you're, you know, you're above average pricing. Then I thought that was actually kind of brilliant because you've got the complimentary console, but they also know darn well you're not Kmart or Walmart or whatever it's called. So, has that worked well for you in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Because I'm, I'm kind of liking that.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah, I think it, I think it has I know people argue back and forth about charging a consultation fee. We just we, we opted not to do that. And I, I think for us, it's, it's worked out. We, we see a lot of patients, but. In in when patients call up to make their appointments, our staff is pretty good at screening who is realistic about coming in and, you know, not wasting our time, not just kicking the tires.
And so, I think it's, it's been productive. We have a, a high, high booking rate and establish a good rapport with patientsβ kind of from the get go. So, for us, it's worked.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you also have your reputation and credibility and experience backing that up. So, I think that all goes together. Somebody like you can get away with that.
Whereas other practices, they can't, I, I would, you know, I would have a different recommendation for them, but it's working beautifully for you. So, you know, I would just keep doing it. Now I know your patient demographics are all over the place because you like rhino, but you also like facial rejuvenation.
So what marketing channels are working best for you to cater to very different target and assist in being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, you know, we, I think we, we work closely with our website people and search engine, engine optimization. We have a team that works with social media as well, trying to get the, you know, get the word out and keep, keep our patients abreast of what's going on.
We've just recently started using your, your kiss program to try to keep patients coming back and, and, you know, and, and love us even more. We're always on the lookout for, for new ideas. And you've been very helpful to us as far as providing good marketing ideas, energizing the staff. I think. You've helped our staff to understand marketing better and be able to answer questions and, and serve patients better.
So always being on the lookout for trying to take things to the next level and do it better. And, and you've been very helpful to us in that regard.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you for that. Regarding social media, how involved are you in it and how much of your time is it taking and how is that helping you in being able to add another surgeon to your practice? Let's say weekly. How much time are you putting into it or is the staff pretty well covering.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. You know the young guys seem to do it pretty well. I'm embarrassed to tell you how little time I spend with it. So, our, our staff really does it and they kind of keep me inform and take some pictures along the way. But yeah, not my, not my area of expertise
Catherine Maley, MBA: Because you're the star of the show.
And I just want them to be the roving reporter. I always say, just walk around and catch, catch him, walking down the hall, ask him a question, drop in on a console, you know, and just like record him as. Day in the life of a plastic surgeon, because the consumer patient is so interested in that. Like, who are you?
What do you, what do you do all day? Like what, what would I, what would I expect if I visited? You know? So, I hope to see more of you on Instagram, which is helpful in being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: All right. Well, that's, again, I think that's, that's very good advice and something we should probably do and I'll pass it along to our, to Olivia and the people at you know, honcho the social media.
Cause I hear what you're saying. It makes a lot of sense.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, I'll tell you how I know you're a really great practice. One way. One thing I always do is I check out practices reviews, and you have 376 reviews and you are rated 4.9. Now, as a perfectionist, you probably want that to be a five.
I will tell you it is. Disingenuous to be. You can't have a perfect score when you have 376 reviews. So, for you to have 4.9, I just think that's so honest, it looks good. It would be fishy otherwise to consumers, I believe so. How are you getting, how did you get 376 reviews? That must help you in being able to add another surgeon to your practice!
Paul M. Parker, MD: That's pretty remarkable. Yeah, well, the staff takes ownership of it and we have one, one gal in our practice Melanie, who is just a very wonderful, warm people person.
And she's not afraid to ask patients for reviews that, and I think it's reflective of, of our team as well that patients will tell us time. And again, they, they see the camaraderie among our team and how everyone works together and makes the experience for them very special. So, it's, you know, it's, it's, it is not just, it's not me that deserve the 4.9.
It's our staff because yeah, I'm the, I'm the surgeon, but I'm supported by this wonderful team of women that support the patients and the patients recognize that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But you're also the leader in the visionary and you have a personality that you want to support. I can't say that about all surgeons and all practices, but just the friendly comradery in your practice is priceless.
I wouldn't take that for granted. I, I somehow, it's magical for you. Others have never achieved it or it's a strain to get there. So, whatever you're doing leads, keep doing it because it's certainly working for you in being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah, well, you know, you, I mean, you talk to people who hate going to work every day.
Right. And that's, I mean, that's terrible. So, I always thought if I was in a position where I could change that that I would try to do that. And I, I love going to work every day with this team of people. I have, they love going to work. So, to me, it's, it's kind of the perfect environment. It just, it's a fun place to go to.
And maybe that's why I want to keep doing it. You know, for as long as I can think about now,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, we're going to wrap it up soon. So, speaking of that, I know, like, I want to, I want you to tell us something that we don't know about you and the one thing I know is you like golf. I think you're a really good golfer, but what don't we know about you in regards to being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: I have 8 grandchildren and two on the way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's oh, wow. OK. That's a lot. Did you all live nearby?
Paul M. Parker, MD: We pretty much. Yeah. One of the, one of the boys is temporarily down in new Orleans for a year with his wife and three children. So, they're not around right now, but they'll be back next year and everybody else is pretty close by.
So, yeah, it's great. It's, it's all crazy, but it's fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you the common marketplace where everybody congregates.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah, we, we, you know we love, we love the kids at her second marriage, we have seven kids between us. Most of whom are married now. And then these eight grandkids with two on the way.
And, you know, we just made our house sort of the focal point. And the perfect weekend for me is to go and play golf with some of the boys in the morning. And everybody come back to the house afterwards and have a barbecue and pool, a party, you know, and all the fun that's involved with that. It's, it's, it's crazy.
But for us, it's a lot of fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: On your Instagram. I can see the grandkids. They are adorable. Like some of them are less than they can't be more than four months old or something. All so darn cute.
Paul M. Parker, MD: Yeah. It it's, we're blessed. It's a lot of fun. It's great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But there's something else you do. You also have another hobby that may also help you in being able to add another surgeon to your practice and that's photography.
I did not know that until recently. What, what are you taking pictures?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Well, I have to be honest, I, I took a lot more pictures back in the day. These days, Angela kind of supplanted me as, as the family photographer and, and some of the other kids, Jessica as well, one of the girls has taken on photography skills.
So, I'm kind of a backup photographer at this point.
Catherine Maley, MBA: When you were doing a lot of photography, was it still shots of animals, buildings? What were you interested? Has this hobby helped you in being able to add another surgeon to your practice?
Paul M. Parker, MD: No, when I traveled just taking pictures of, of, of scenery that we posted here in the office because they, they tend to be kind of relaxing for patients.
When patients go in a room, they'll sit back and they'll look at the photographs and, you know, they'll kind of see I know there's a waterfall in Yosemite that we have in one room and another room. We have some pictures of Rome and Venice and the Duomo and Florence. And so, patients will look at that and it just kind of.
When you're, when you think about those areas, it just kind of makes you smile and relax. And that's what we're trying to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's terrific. Any, any words of wisdom in relation to being able to add another surgeon to your practice while we wrap this up? I know be patient was the, was the big one. Anything else that you would say to somebody coming up in the industry?
Paul M. Parker, MD: Try and get yourself with good people. Whether if you're joining a practice, join a practice with a, a, you know, a, a good person that you can bond with. So, you can enjoy the ride, work hard, play hard. And as you, as you grow and establish your team try to treat that team. Fairly well, enjoy them. Let them enjoy you.
So that work is fun for you. Work is, is fun for them and that'll breed tremendous loyalty. It'll make your life more enjoyable, but it'll make their job life more enjoyable. And I do believe it'll make your practice more successful because those things are pretty evident to patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So true. What great advice on being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
Thank you so much, Dr. Parker. I really appreciate your time. And for those who want to not miss any more episodes, go to Beauty and the Biz. So, you can subscribe and you can give us a review if you like. And then if you've got any more questions for Dr. Parker, or if you're interested in joining his practice or, you know, somebody who is please reach out to him, his website is www.ParkerCenter.net
Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz. A big thanks to Dr. Parker for sharing his insight on being able to add another surgeon to your practice.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βAdd Another Surgeon to Your Practice β with Paul M. Parker, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#multisurgeonpractice #paulparkermd #paulmparkermd #drpaulparker #parkercenter #addanothersurgeon #surgicalpartner
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to open another practice in a new area.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Open Another Practice in a New Area β with Charles Boyd, MD".
What do you do when youβve been in a hospital setting for 14 years, doing plastic surgery and MOHS, raising 5 daughters and getting the itch to go out on your own?
The simple (but not easy) answer is, you decide to believe in yourselfβ¦and then hustle.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode is an interview I did with Dr. Charles Boyd, a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon with practices in 3 locations in Birmingham, Ann Arbor and Detroit, Michigan, with a 4th out-of-state location in the works.
Dr. Boyd graduated from Harvard medical school and the University of Michigan Ross School of Business so he had the credentials to go into solo practice. Now he just needed to go for it.
Hereβs what we talked about:
- Opening a cosmetic practice in a new area where Dr. Boyd had no reputation or patients
- Where his mother fit in to his growth
- An investing mistake he learned from, and a lot moreβ¦.
Visit Dr. Boyd's Website
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript COMING SOON:
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz. A big thanks to Charles Boyd, MD for sharing his insight what it takes to open another practice in a new area.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βOpen Another Practice in a New Area β with Charles Boyd, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#howtoopenanewpractice #charlesboydmd #drcharlesboyd #openasecondpractice #openmorepracticelocations
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to get free advertising.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "How to Get Free Advertising".
You most likely advertise for new cosmetic patients by paying an Internet marketer to design your website and do SEO to be sure youβre found.
These website folks probably tell you to advertise using google AdWords while your SEO builds momentum. And you may also throw more money towards directories and social media advertising to get things moving.
Thereβs nothing wrong with that but free advertising is better. A girlfriend telling her girlfriend how great you are is now, and will always be, the most direct route to a new cash-paying patient.
And the health and success of your practice can be gauged by this simple factor β how many patients refer you to others they know?
This weekβs podcast is about building your own referral engine, so your practice grows itself organically.
Hereβs what youβll discoverβ¦
- The subtle things you are doing now to deter referrals
- How to offer βBraggable Serviceβ
- Get social to get referrals and much more.
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
How to Get Free Advertising
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to get free advertising.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's episode is called βHow to Get Free Advertisingβ. A girlfriend, talking to a girlfriend about how great you are, is now, and will always be the most direct route to a new cash paying patient.
So, the question becomes, how can you make that happen more often. Now, some surgeons have a one and done mentality. So, they spend a fortune advertising for new patient. And then their staff spends a crazy amount of time working. Those leads to find the diamond in the haystack. Who's ready to move forward with surgery.
Now, other surgeons realize it's smarter, easier, cheaper, and faster to provide consistent customer service that creates a great experience to their patients. So, they in turn refer you to others who also become surgical patients. Now, neither is the right way. However, creating a referral-based system teaches your practice to market itself for free.
That way you energize your staff, you attract more of your ideal patients. You deepen your patients, engagement with you and your practice, and you solidify your own commitment to build a practice. We're talking about. You also save a ton of money on advertising because you're getting it for free from your patients who love bragging about you to others.
They know because here's something to consider. Cosmetic patients are wired to make referrals. It's a deeply satisfying way to connect with others when they're recognized as a source of good information and the health and success of your practice can be gauged by this simple factor. How many patients refer you to others? This is key on how to get free advertising.
They. Now, if you don't know the answer to that, pull a report called revenues by referral source. Now I've surveyed top cosmetic practices all over the us. And the average mature practice gets 45 to 70% of their revenues from referrals. Now that's good to know. And it tells you where to spend your time, money and efforts proportionate to external advertising effort, which will help you on how to get free advertising.
And if your percentage is less than 45%, that indicates you're spending a lot more time, money and effort attracting new patients to replace these one and done patients who are not bragging about you. But here's what we know for sure. Referred prospective patients are more likely to convert, to paid procedures and more likely willing to pay a premium price for the added social proof of a referral that leads to lower advertising costs as well as labor costs.
Since these are highly qualified leads, who. And that leads to increased staff satisfaction and morale when they're not chasing flaky leads, by the way, if you are not sure how you're doing or you're disappointed in the low number of referrals, you're getting something in your practice may be off. So, send out a digital patient survey asking for feedback, which will help you to get free advertising.
So just conduct a simple survey, asking your patients what they value the. And what else you can do to improve their experience. It's a great way to refine your processes. So, patients are excited about bragging, about you, to their friends. The caveat is to send this survey to patients who gave you money, but also to those who came in for a consult to never booked wouldn't.
You love to know why they did move forward. So here are strategies to grow your own referral-based practice. Develop a referral mindset team and process. Now this starts at the top. Your staff probably treat your patients about the same way you treat your staff. And if you have a customer service mentality, then your team will likely adopt one as well, and in-turn, help you on how to get free advertising.
Think about ways your everyday behavior might be affecting your practice's ability to generate referrals and adopt this mindset. The surgeon takes care of the staff. The staff takes care of the patients. The patients take care of the practice. Hmm. That's good to know, expect and, believe you're going to deserve referrals.
Your staff also has to believe it because it's everybody's job in the practice. To focus on providing excellent customer service, which is one part of how to get free advertising. Now in the business of referrals, trust is the most important reason a recommendation is. And conversely, lack of trust is the single greatest reason referrals don't happen.
And some of this is so subtle that you don't realize you have a patient deterrent system rather than a referral engine. The following examples are from my own observations, visiting practices to do a practice assessment. And I might add the staff knows who I am. So, you would think they would be on their best.
But here's what I have observed. They don't acknowledge the patient when they first enter the practice and they continue to look at their computer. They don't greet the visiting patient with a genuine smile, making eye contact and welcoming them to the practice. They don't offer the visiting patient direction as to what to do next.
For as example, like help themselves to the restroom or here's a tea, coffee, and water service, and then where to sit or what to do next, or patients can overhear staff gossiping and complaining at the front. Definitely not helping you on how to get free advertising Or long waiting times, or they leave patients in the exam room for long periods without checking in on them.
And it goes on and on. Please remember visiting prospective patients must be treated like guests in your home. So, they're acknowledged and made to feel comfortable, relaxed, and welcomed. Now this all starts with hiring the right. You can train someone to do the task required. However, you can't train them to be naturally friendly, kind and compassionate, hire those innate characteristics and people skills and customer service training.
Isn't a one-time event its ongoing. So regularly meet with your staff to remind them of your vision and standards of behavior you expect and how important customer service is to the survival of your practice. Now get your team engaged, have them read your reviews. Good and bad review before and after photos of great results and make a big deal out of of thank you.
Cards and notes you get from your happy patients, then brainstorm ideas to improve even more conduct standing morning staff huddles to review the schedule for that. The resources needed and end with a high five or a practice cheer you've come up with it will set your team's mindset to have a fantastic day and then truly enjoy serving your patient, which is all part of how to get free advertising.
Now you want to offer braggable service. Everyone in your practice is part of customer service. This idea must be drilled into everything you and your staff do say. And think now the trick is to balance the necessary. This is how we do it here with the, whatever it takes, flexibility that can put out a fire before it gets out of.
Be sure your staff stays vigilant about customer satisfaction while patients are visiting emailing or calling. So rather than focus on how can we get this patient to say yes to surgery, focus on the question, how can we better serve our patients? Now this question makes your mind think of how you can add value to your patient's lives.
And that changes everything. Find ways to empower your team, to create, deliver mend and extend the total patient experience. Now, examples include offering a warm blanket and lip balm for dry lips during a laser treatment, which will help you to get free advertising. For example, now here's a good exercise to help you figure out how to exceed expectations.
Identify every potential touchpoint of a patient's journey with your practice, do a patient walkthrough with one staff person focusing on visual. Another on smell, another on auditory and another on kinesthetics. Now brainstorm. How do we make this experience with us even better and ask again, how can we simplify our process?
So, we're easier to do business. These are great questions and then surprise and delight. Everyone loves surprises. So how could you incorporate them into your practice? For example? When a patient puts down their deposit for surgery, you can thank them with a goody bag with presurgical products to help with scarring and or faster recovery.
You can also be different to stand out, look at what your competitors are doing and do the opposite. Examples could include you have a no weight. Our Starbucks is on us policy, or we want you happy G. Or give patients the morph, computer printouts, and anything else you can think of that would differentiate you as a cut above the others, and help you on how to get free advertising as well.
And of course, get social to get referrals. I just read from St. statista.com that by 20 25 56 0.7% of the world's population will be active on at least one social media network. So, I recommend your efforts above be highlighted on your multiple social media. the practices that are very social online are easier to refer.
They educate and entertain, and that makes it easier to be talked about. They interact with their audience and they encourage them to participate by asking questions and getting feedback. They also engage their audience by inviting them to tell their stories and show off their results. So, I recommend you create engaging and authentic content.
We're sharing to grow your reach exponentially. Now, feature happy patients telling their story about their own journey while showing off their results, interact with your audience and encourage them to participate by asking them questions, getting their feedback and inviting them to share their thoughts and their selfies. This is one way that will help you on how to get free advertising.
And a note about influencers. Influencer marketing has become increasingly popular because it allows you to tap into someone else's follow. And leverage their credibility to gain exposure. However, like anything else, there are different qualities of influencers, so you can get spotty results. What I have seen works best is when you already have a relationship with someone who has a big following, such as a patient, came to you as a patient, they love their experience and result, and is now willing to introduce you to their follow.
Now, this has become a good enough marketing strategy that I know a surgeon who asks on his patient intake form, how many followers the patient has on their platforms. And another surgeon has an entire webpage devoted to influencers, having them complete a form and attaching their analytics and stats to prove their range of influence.
Now, if this sounds interesting to you, there are tons of influencer platforms that can assist in getting you low-cost or almost free advertising. That can partner you with the most effective influencers for your particular audience. Literally just Google it. You know, now the best way to grow your referrals is to put them on autopilot and to ask them in a fun way, make it part of your patient journey process.
For example, offer your happy surgical patients, a post-op goody bag with instructions and copy. They can use to post on their own social media platforms, and then be sure to encourage them to tell your friends where you got it. You can also use my KiSS Loyalty Club and the details are at www.KiSSLoyaltyClub.com to creatively encourage referrals by offering KiSSes towards free cosmetic services. So please check that out.
So, to recap here is what it takes to get free advertising. Obviously provide great results, conduct a patient survey to get feedback and identify your weaknesses, hire friendly kind and compassionate staff. Meet with them regularly to reinforce your standards, offer braggable service, exceed expectations, surprise and be different to stand out from your competition, get social connect with influencers, and then put referrals on autopilot using the www.KiSSLoyaltyClub.com.
And that's how to get free advertising that is cheaper, easier, and faster than playing the one and done game just saying. Okay, so that wraps it up for me today, if you would, or haven't done so already, please subscribe and gimme a nice review at beauty and the biz.
Thank you. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and how to get free advertising.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βHow to Get Free Advertisingβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#howtogetfreeadvertising #freeadvertisingforsurgeons #plasticsurgeryadvertising #cosmeticsurgeonadvertising
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the lessons learned from 1,500 rhinoplasties with Diana Ponsky, MD.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called "Lessons Learned from 1,500 Rhinoplasties - with Diana Ponsky, MD".
Rhinoplasty patients can arguably be the most sensitive/emotional/difficult patients to serve, and for good reason.
When someone has been looking in the mirror and disliking what theyβve seen for years, they have lots of built-up thoughts and expectations about changing it, that you have to deal with.
On this weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast, I interviewed Dr. Diana Ponsky, a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon with a private practice in Beachwood, Ohio for the past 6 years.
Dr. Ponsky has performed more then 1,500 rhinoplasties so we talked about how to handle expectations using morphing technology, red flags to beware of, as well as the satisfaction that goes with ecstatic rhino patients who love their new look.
We also talked about being in private practice for the past 6 years to include:
Why going into practice with family was a disaster to avoid
Who Dr. Ponsky hired to help her grow
Tips for hiring staff that help (not hurt) her practice
Visit Dr. Ponsky's Website
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Lessons Learned From 1,500 Rhinoplasties - with Diana Ponsky, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, as well as lessons learned from 1,500 rhinoplasties.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley author of Your aesthetic practice - what your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
So, today's guest is Dr. Diana Ponsky, who will be discussing lessons learned from rhinoplasties. She's a board certified facial and reconstructive surgeon. With a private practice in Beachwood, Ohio for the past six years.
Surgeon and rhinoplastiesβ star, Dr. Ponsky is also an assistant professor for the department of otolaryngology at university hospitals, and she's performed more than 1500 rhinoplasty. And if that weren't enough, she managed to find time to get married to a very funny surgeon and they're raising three daughters.
Oh my gosh. And by the way, Your family is doing such a good job on your Instagram account with your lessons learned from rhinoplasties. I hope your husband is as hilarious as he looks. He looks like the nicest dad. Like the dad. I always wanted that I didn't have. Is, is he like that?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Oh, he's super funny. I, I. I tell him I don't have a funny bone in my body and he, like, he makes he more than makes up for it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I donβt know if you need two funny people in your family when it comes to lessons learned from rhinoplasties. Yeah. So, Dr. Ponsky welcome to Beauty and the Biz podcast. It's a pleasure to have you.
Diana Ponsky, MD: It's my pleasure to be here. Thank you, Catherine. I've admired your lectures from afar. So, I'm excited to be here with you today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Terrific. Well, let's, let's learn what's going on in your world with lessons learned from rhinoplasties in regards to surgeons.
The first thing I do like to ask is, especially for women, how do you grow up to be a facial plastic surgeon? Like I never, you even heard of that. And did it come to your family? Did how, how did that?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. So, I grew up in a very, you know simple family. I say I have a mom and a dad who are both blue collar workers, and I kind of happened upon the medical field by accident and each path along the way has been purely by I credit to the mentors.
I was lucky to. To, you know, meet during that course. And so, when I was in college, I worked with a chemist and he inspired me to go into the sciences. So I went to the sciences, but then I needed to work. And so, I worked for a dermatology. As her front office, you know, receptionist. And I just loved the medical field through her also because she was sick.
She, she had a heart condition and I would often help her with certain things where she didn't have anybody. And so, so I, I knew her for over eight years and so that. You know, put me on that trajectory. And when I got into medical school, I was so super excited. Went through the rotations, found T fell in love with it for the intricacies of a head and neck cancer surgery.
But then worked for the VA for a couple, for two years while my husband was doing his fellowship and then fell in. Even more with the rhinoplasty. So that's how it came about.
So, I, I, I think my field's amazing and I love mentoring young women to, you know, to kind of check it out and, and look into it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you ended up in private practice, like well, almost six years ago. So, are you still in the university setting or how is that working out in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: No. So I was very lucky to have a hybrid practice for many years. I because of the support of my chair, man, and then chairwoman, and then in August of 2020, I left completely and, and just focused on private practice.
So, it was a, a gradual transition mainly because I think. You know, kind of nervous about taking that big, bold step out from academia.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, and so why did you, like, what were the pros and cons of being in academia and then. Going into private practice. Like what was that decision making? Because I know a lot of surgeons are just on the fence, you know, they're just not sure what to do, especially when it comes to lessons learned from rhinoplasties.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yes. So, for me, I loved working within a team. I, I loved that. I had colleagues that I could ask questions of, that we could all get together and do cases together. I. Being able to teach residents and having an input in that it was difficult from a family standpoint because my husband's also a surgeon and he travels a lot lectures a lot.
And as the university became tougher in terms of. Having one person work with you. They would have a lot of people who would do different things so that they can delegate and work with 10 different surgeons. They're scheduling conflicts and, and issues with that. A lot of my colleagues ended up leaving and so I was.
Probably the last one standing. So that was the tough part. It was mainly bureaucracy because the camaraderie of working in academia is one thing. The other frustration came out when the billing practices were an issue. And so, my patients would get mad at me because the hospital couldn't figure out good system for.
Functional nasal surgery with cosmetic nasal surgery. And I always felt like I, I was put in the middle and I couldn't explain it any better, nor could I have any influence over the numbers or the people who sent them bills. And so, all those frustrations kind of came together and, you know, six months after COVID I was just kind of ready.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. And you did it in, in the middle of COVID? How did that affect your lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, what were you thinking, in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yeah, I was just it was, I, I, we worked all throughout COVID at least to cover call and help. The pulmonary system, you know, people out, we try to protect our faculty by taking like shifts for a whole week.
And then when things came back, it wasn't fully back. There were still issues with seeing patients and, and telemedicine and all that. And I thought it was just a good point. I promised my chairwoman, I find my replacement for me at the university, and it was a good time to make an exit. So yeah, so I did.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, kudos to you regarding functional versus cosmetic rhinoplasty. I know I had one years ago and everybody I know says the same thing while you are at it in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties. Could you also take care of this, this bump on my nose? Like everybody wants to start out with insurance and just throw the role that cosmetic in, and you've got to have a, a script and a structure response to that, because that doesn't, that come up like nine out of 10 times in regards to rhinoplasties and lessons learned?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Definitely. Yes. In my practice, there are certain numbers of, there are, there are about three insurances that I work with and the rest are all cosmetic. So, we I feel like we do our best to guide patients through it, but there is And most of our patients are reasonable. So that difficulty comes in when I'm trying to explain that if you're having trouble with breathing and you have a, a passageway that's, you know, so big and you're trying to make it even smaller, then, then the fact that it's.
Partly functional comes into play. So, so I explain it in terms of that. And a lot of people understand it where, when I participate with their insurance, we definitely try to get that part of it covered by their insurance to help them out. And if it doesn't work out, we still give them credit for it because in the end, I don't want that to be the single factor that turns a patient away because I'm, I'm more into building.
Like building a, you know, rapport, like building a good relationship with patients. And honestly, I think that if you're going to take someone for surgery, I'd rather they not, not do something because of a few dollars. Right. So, you want to give them the best of both worlds, so cosmetic and the functional aspect.
And it that's usually my goal. So, it's, it's one of those things that like one of those surgeries that I absolutely love because it's such a marriage of the two things So, so, so I don't know if I can answer your question, but it's very tough to explain. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: When the patients know that you accept insurance, that's all they hear.
Oh, she takes insurance. That's fantastic. I'll get this taken care of the minute. That conversation changes to, well, not so fast, you know, I'll, some of this is insurance and some is, is out of pocket and, and the minute that credit card gets involved the. All, all bets are off and it changes the relationship often and are big lessons learned from rhinoplasties.
So, if you can straddle that good for you eventually down the road, you might say cash only because yeah. And just leave that word insurance out completely. Although I think you really enjoy doing the insurance side. So, like what percentages insurance versus cosmetic in your practice? How does that effect lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: So right now, I would say 80% are cosmetics and 20% and has a functional insurance issue.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yeah. Very little. Oh, good for you. Like you did that early on, because you've only been at this for like six years. Right. But I know it well from the university. Right. And then for the numbers. So even though it's been six years for the hybrid model, like there's been a lot of learning along the way with managing both sides of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, so where is a lot of your time spent in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties? Is it, are your kind of like the rhino surgeon or are there a lot of faceless left? I looked on your website and it does, it definitely looks more rhino centric, you know? Yes. But where, where are you going with that? Do you want to, do you want to be known as that or do you want to spread out or what's your plan with lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Sure. So that's a very good question, Catherine, because I spent most of my early years at the university doing mainly that that's, that brings on another answer to one of the questions you asked earlier, part of how the, the, the department of otolaryngology slash facial plastics advertised me was purely in the nasal arena, right?
Because plastic surgery took over everything. And their marketing wasn't in that. And so, I saw mainly noses at the university, a lot of reconstructive faces for you know, facial palsy issues and some eyes for functional reasons. But I was trained in all of that. I did my fellowship with bomb and Geron and I'm trained in all of it.
I love all of. And so, part of my reason for exiting also is that I get to do all those things. So, you know outside, without with control over my advertising and my marketing. And so, I, I do love all of those surgeries for sure. I, I would say about 75% of my surgeries are rhinoplasty now with about 20.
15 to 20% facelifts and the rest in in lefts and brow lifts. And so that's of the surgical numbers. I spend my time between non nonsurgical and surgical days. And so, it's pretty evenly split. So.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Isn't that amazing how you almost have to have nonsurgical parallel to your surgical because you're going to catch those who are never going to do surgery.
You've got an option for them. Now. We never had that before this technology has changed everything. So, you can turn off block nowadays without it. So is one of your philosophies, in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties, is to offer nonsurgical and surgical to keep that patient with?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yeah. So, I feel that the younger generation are more likely to try things that are non-surgical early on.
Right. And it's a, it's an educational process too. You take care of your skin. Now, do you take care of, you know, preventing or. Rejuvenation take care of preventing the wrinkles. Now you'll have less that we have to fix in the future or a longer process until we have to, you know, do something more invasive with it.
So, I, I know a lot of my plus. My better, more established plastic surgeons in the community will not do Botox or fillers. They'll send to derm and they'll just do the surgical cases. And I guess at this point I could probably make the transition, but I actually like the relationship building up to the point where.
they may need you for surgery or the relationship building of after surgery, maintaining things. So, it's, it's one of the, you know, more gratifying portions of what I do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Here's what I've noticed with other surgeonβs practices who only focus on surgical and advertise only that on social media. That is a very old school kind of way of thinking when it comes to lessons learned from rhinoplasties especially.
You're. Or you're. So just so darn sure that you're going to have surgery forever and ever that, you know, you, you hang your hat on it in today's world. I'm not sure most surgeons can plan on that. I think you've got to have that non-surgical aspect to your practice. You may not be the one doing the non-surgical treatments, but keeping that patient in your practice versus wandering around (lessons learned from rhinoplasties) and hoping they end up with you again, the next time they need surgery.
I, I think that's. Dreaming, you know, I'm, I'm just my opinion on that. So, when you were going to go out on your own, how, how did you know what to do in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties? Did you decide, okay, I'm just going to rent some space or I'm going to get, go rent some space from somebody else, or I'm going to go in a big building or I'm going to buy my own building.
Like what, what did you end up doing to get you from the hospital to private? How did this effect you in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yes. So probably by now you've learned that I'm very cautious and I take little steps instead of big ones. I was very lucky that my chairman really supported me and I had shared with him some of my frustrations with the ho you know, the university system and how it was tough to get cases that I wanted.
Blasts and facelifts because of plastic surgery, how it was difficult to get the business office, to kind of talk to patients and explain the process of, of billing a little bit better. So, to keep me there, he allowed me to rent space from them in the plastic surgery building. So, for two days a week, I had a time share there and so little steps.
They rented it to me for two years and then they switched plastic surgery with urology. So that was a good time for me. Exit and find my own space to lease, but I stayed with them in that hybrid model for a few more years before completely going private.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, and then how, and then where did you end up, physically, and in regards to learning lessons from rhinoplasties?
So now you're leasing space. Is it in a big medical building or a consumer? Place or mall?
Diana Ponsky, MD: So, itβs in a, a big business building that has both offices as well as medical offices. So, I'm on the same floor as the gastroenterologist who have a surgical suite. And I am on the same floor as the dental and oral surgery offices.
So, and then above us, there's, you know, equity firms. Office leasing firms. So, it's a mixture a digital internet company. So yeah, different offices. And I was there for, I had a five-year lease. I just renewed on it. I it's a small boutique office and I kind of just figured it out by, you know, going through some, going through notes of the academy, furnished us probably from your lectures in the past.
And. Picking up books and podcasts and, you know, things along the way and checking with friends who had done it in other cities and states and yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I think that's your best bet. See what everyone else is doing outside of your area, especially when it comes to learning lessons from rhinoplasties. Like, just so nobody's all competitive. Boy, I mean, there's no need for you to go through half the mistakes that others made, you know?
Is there a saying about that? The, the, the smart surgeons learn from other surgeonβs mistakes and don't make (especially in lessons learned from rhinoplasties). Themselves and so true. So, when you went out on your own, now you have to, you don't have the university behind you now, it's you? So how did you go about presenting yourself to the marketplace and how were you going to position yourself from the lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
So, what did you do in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties to get your name out there?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. Gosh I was, so I learned a lot about marketing Instagram, you know the Google ads and how to build your website twice. And there, there was a, a steep learning curve for sure. In that regard. I luckily. Stayed in the same area where, you know, I worked previously.
And so, I had a lot of referrals already from the internists, the Pete's offices for broken noses of kids. The dermatology practice in town who worked with me with, you know, cancer or most patients before. So, I was lucky that I had a chance to kind of build my name in the community first and. It was a little bit of an easier transition coming out there, but gosh, Kathryn, I couldn't tell you, like the first time I heard about like, oh, you got to do this on Instagram or put this out on Facebook or like really in this, you know, just, yeah.
It's a, it's a whole new world in advertising. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there any other marketing channel you're using other than your surgeonβs social media accounts? Have you tried anything else related to lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: So, I have a, a girl who runs her own social media company and she manages all of that for me, we would meet once a week so that we can go over ideas, how to, you know, be different, but also deliver the right message all the time in a consistent way every week.
I have a guy who does my website and I actually use BSMS, you know, the elegant brands people, and they connected me with a guy who is a digital marketing expert. And so, he comes into our social media meetings every week also. And oh, and I think my best thing. So, my husband's very funny, and he does a lot of these internet educational, you know, webinars and.
He's on every single platform educating the world. And so, he, so he shares, you know, has helped me with little tips along the way with, in this regard. But along with him, my most valuable resources a who's my employee now. He, I call him my marketing strategist. He has no formal education in it, but because he worked for a number of years at, in the museum of art and he's very creative.
We come up with finding funny ideas. And so, they're kind of like slightly off, you know, and different. But it really. So, he, he brings the creativity into it. So BSM my creative director my social media person. Sometimes I use my kids for TikTok cause they can do it better than, you know than I can and faster.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, especially now all of a sudden everything has to be a rhinoplasties video and, you know, I was just getting used to. Doing my picture, you know, my portal. And it's like, really now everything's got to be video. Like I'm not that creative. But as long as your family's backing you up, they're doing a great job with the reels, you know, so, oh, thank has a great surgeonβs social media Instagram account.
Like he, a pediatric surgeon. Is that right?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yes, that's correct. Yeah,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Maybe that's why, because he's pediatric that he he's kept his youthfulness about him, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Really funny surgeon on social media, funny, when you were critiquing his looks like now that he's turning 50. Oh, this is not going to go well. Is, is open for cosmetic rejuvenation tips from you?
Diana Ponsky, MD: He's much better now that I've pointed it out. But yeah, before he wasn't, he would let me like, make fun of him every now and then. I had to bribe him to even treat him to Botox elevens there, but yeah, he's, he's coming around. He's coming around.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. So, let's talk about the surgeonβs staff for a minute, as it relates to lessons learned from rhinoplasties, because if you haven't been used to running a practice and at the hospital, everyone's, that's the wild, wild west, you know, is, you've got a lot of managers there.
A lot of people telling you what to do in person and on social media. But in your own private surgeonβs practice, it's your show and, and all arrows point to you. If things are going well, It's you, things are not going well. It's you. How have you, how were you with this? Like, like managing people, leading them did that come naturally for you?
Or what kind of challenges have you had in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: No, I, I find that to be the most you know, challenging portion of going out on your own. I love the part where you get to, you know, Determine what you do. You get to decide who you hire. And early on, it was all about experiences, because I really didn't know how to navigate that ship all so I people with experience, but as they came on board, it, it turned out that not every.
Personality would mesh well together. And so, HR is definitely the toughest part of what I do. Now I pick for personality and right now I'm actually without an office manager, which will soon change. I have someone that's been with me for five years. She's great. I have an RN who is soon to be an NP that I've trained for over a year.
And she's terrific. I've Michael, my creative director. Who's also terrific. And my front desk gal is also great. So, so, you know, it's, I it's, I'm, I'm learning along the way, but definitely it's been the biggest challenge because I, I actually don't find out that I don't know how to manage people. I didn't go to, you know, I'm, I'm not good at that.
And, It's tough when there are working together and you have to have the personal. Be, you know, symbiotic with each other too.
So, try on error. That's what I say of navigating.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And just so you know, no surgeon is a born manager when it comes to people or lessons learned from rhinoplasties, just like nobody was a born good surgeon or anything else. It really is. Some people, a little major, a little minority, 2% were like just.
Really brilliant at it. Like they just innately are really good with people and have great people. Skills surgeons are not notoriously known for people skills. You were very busy doing something else. You know, you were not supervising, you were studying. So, you're not, you're already up against, against the odds.
There are being a good surgeon with their rhinoplasties and a good manager. It's a taught skill though, like anything else, even in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties. And you have to get out of your own head and talk to other people and be patient with them and listen to them. And. There is nothing easy about, you know, right. Especially when you have your own vision of how you want things, in regards to learning lessons from rhinoplasties.
And typically, surgeons are pretty perfectionistic (especially when it comes to lessons learned from rhinoplasties), which we want, you know, as a surgeon, we want that as a manager, we don't, or as a wife or something or spouse, we don't either. Or as it's just, that'll always be just a, a learning curve, like forever, probably.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yeah. Yeah. It's a good, I mean, luckily, I have friends who've helped with the process.
So, when I started, they're like, okay, well, here's the handbook. Here are some things you have to define up front. You know, here are the things like to just make sure that you like. Always have meetings, you know, with your staff. So, you're all on the same page. Always let them know how grateful you are and how great that you, you know, the team is.
And so, I've been lucky. I, yeah, to have friends that have, have, you know, guide me through the process.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very good advice. Meet with the team regularly. Tell them your vision with the practice and lessons learned from rhinoplasties. Let them know what your rhinoplasties and lesson-learning standards are, what you expect, what your values are hold them accountable. And that's what the meetings are about.
And, and then, you know, appreciate them and acknowledge them, especially in today's world. You know, they people, boy, they need a lot of, you know, Yeah. And I know I did not come from that world. It does not come naturally me for me to constantly, but I've noticed like when I'm talking to my staff on every email, I always say, thanks.
And it's like, this is exhausting, but I know it's important, you know, so right. It's just, it's just a learned skill. So just gimme one. So, so far you haven't been at this for, for 20 years, you've been at it a lot less, but gimme one big mistake you made that you wish you had avoided, or at least that you learned something.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Sure. So, I went into business with one, with a family member in the beginning. We were at different levels and it was, you know, I, I was an attending when he was a resident there. And it, it didn't work out. I was. I feel like, you know, that's one thing that I wish I could kind of not, you know, repeat or have people go into it.
Like you think you hear it all the time. Don't do business with family, you know, leave like as much as you love your family, leave them in that position. It's. It's hard to, to mesh the two because things, you know, personalities come out and decision-making things become a little bit, you know, tougher.
So, so, you know, somehow, I thought I could be like Lieberman Andry or, you know or my friends in, in North Carolina, but it didn't work out. We are both better off for it. You know, I think each of us felt like now we have the latitude to do what we want to do. And so, I would say that's probably one of the, you know, biggest.
Business mistakes I made; I don't think many people are attempted to go into business with their family members. So, I don't think others are going to yeah. Have that same issue, but would say was a family member a cousin. So, it's my husband's family. So yeah, it was your husband's family.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's more complicated in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties.
Oh, OK. I was thinking maybe it was your brother. Cause at least you two.
Like fighting and then break up, but then be okay. Oh, that a tricky one. Yeah. I would've, I would've probably consulted you on that one.
Diana Ponsky, MD: You would've been, yeah, I was badly in need of your β
Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, what are the chances, seriously? What are the chances when you're in private practice and all the risk is on.
And you have a surgeonβs vision for lessons learned from rhinoplasties, for what you want and what you stand for in your brand. And what are the chances somebody else has that same darn vision and you both, you know, and one of you wants to do the marketing and one of you wants to do the HR, so your boundaries are perfect and like, That's really slim to none.
For those and the egos get involved, like there is nothing easy about two strong headed surgeons getting together and trying to build one vision there, nothing easy about that. Yeah. So, would, is there, like, do you have high hopes for down the road to, to add partners or associates? Are you pretty happy being a boutique practice?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. So that's the question right now? Nurse practitioner, nurse practitioner. Who will, you know contribute to the practice and she'll start building her own practice. And my, my plan is to, to maybe hire one or two more but still right now, I'm trying to keep it more of a boutique practice.
And the question is I went into this because I, I love being able to help people I love to, to operate. And I do feel like I have a knack for recognizing what is natural and how to deliver it in a really eh, You know quality way with, with integrity. And so, I kind of want to keep to that vision, which is why I'm not sure that I want to grow it.
The other part of why I went into private practice is I want to be around for my kids until they don't want me anymore. And they're off to college, you know? Type of thing. So, so I am at a crossroads a little bit because I do need more staff. I need to grow this space, but once you do that, then you're going to have to add more, you know, nurse practitioners or an associate or so, so, so I'm, I'm at the point where I can't tell you definitively, I'd like to probably add another nurse practitioner and figure it out from there, I guess.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there some reason you're adding nurse practitioners versus an RN?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. So, I can also add an RN. I just feel that I, I would like someone who can run solo. So, in Ohio my nurse injector can inject with me and the proximity, but it's, it's sort of like, Still grayish. Right. But if I ever leave town, it's a little bit harder to regulate, whereas an NP has more latitude to do things on their own and, you know, I just have to be in collaborating or overseeing physicians.
So, I don't know how, yeah. Are you in California or in, okay. So, so that's my thinking is that I'd like someone who has a little bit more independence too. Gotcha.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just they're they can be more expensive. They're not as easy to find and especially in today's climate. I would think that it's like a needle in the haystack trying to find a cosmetic NP who wants to work on somebody, you know?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right, right. And, and I don't mind training. This young girl that I have, she's terrific. And I've trained to her for over a year. And I, you know, that's part of what I did at the university was teach. And so, I, I don't mind that part. I think it's great. I'd rather, they. Learn from me and know the anatomy, because I took her into the, or showed her things and I'd like that rather than send it to a course to learn from, you know, whoever it may be teaching, who's never seen the deeper portions of where they inject.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Another thing that happens is they start gaining confidence and their experienced and now they think they have a following and they don't see you make it. Look. You know, right?
And they don't see what it's like to run a practice, learn lessons from rhinoplasties, and pay the bills and have all that risk on your shoulders and always worrying about the overhead and all of that.
So yeah, my advice would be, just make sure all of their work is watermarked with your logo, like their name and your name always stay together, you know?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Okay. That's a very good piece of advice. I -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, you don't want them to get too, you know, big for their pitches, you know, and they're not running the show by themselves.
They're under your name. And so anyway, that would be my 2 cents on that.
So, I think to your area, I have this funny story. I was in Cleveland for a conference and. I'm from California. So, Uber is a big deal out here. It never dawned on me that there wasn't Uber in that neighborhood. So, I have to leave the conference at night and go meet one of my classic surgeons in your neighborhood whom I know, you know, so the front desk says, oh, we don't have Uber, but here's a card.
And they literally hand me this card that. A taxi of and a husband. And so, I said, what? And so literally the taxi driver is the, the wife and they're probably in their fifties or sixties, he's sitting in the he's sitting shotgun and.
And she I'm in this big van. They bring me to the restaurant; they wait for me and then they bring me back to the hotel.
Cause I going to be screwed. If I got that, that restaurant, how was I going to get home? I paid yearly for it, but it was the thing, literally she's advertising. And my husband's going to be here too. And I thought entertainment, entertainment committee.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. I bet you so. In Ohio, it's probably the, be my designated dryer. Like be my DD. They travel want to in.
Limit it. So, you could be waiting like 20 minutes for over where, whereas like in California, I'm sure. Like every few there's another one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What do you mean they don't have?
How are you going to differentiate in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties? Because the, let me ask about rhinoplasty because you have picked the toughest procedure on the planet. You, you you've got the younger child, you know, the younger kid that you have somehow relate to, or you have to relate to their mother, or you have the older, more maturing patient who's nose, you know, like it's all falling down.
So now you have like, you know, the more mature patient who wants to get their nose back where it was. How's that going? And how's your unhappy patient factor? Any, any tips in, because actually I had a podcast interview with, I can't remember his name. He's in New Hampshire. He's. Hey God, you wrote the book on the unhappy patient.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Oh yes. Constant -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Constantine. Yes, yes, yes. This whole philosophy was, oh my God. I fixed their nose and they still weren't happy. Like, what do you mean how I did like a perfect job and you're still unhappy? So, I was wondering like, do you have any tips and tricks? How to make that unhappy rhino patient happy.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. I, you know, unfortunately I wish I did. I think, you know, Mark's, Mark's closest to the, of, of that arena, you know? Cause I couldn't have, I couldn't possibly write a book about that subject because I'm still learning about that. I. We all have unhappy patients for me, it's, you know, I rely on multiple discussions with them.
Then you get a sense of their, their motivation, their personality. And I can tell you I'm I, that, that part I'm pretty good about picking out, but it usually takes me two or three meetings. And so, I structure it as a consultation, a pre you know, a more. Discussion. And then a pre-op discussion too, with my nurse.
You know, starting the conversation I'll come in any last-minute questions, that type of thing. And so, I had to turn away two patients because they showed up with things that are suspect between the second and the third, you know, where you get the feeling that you can't possibly achieve all their goals.
And no matter how many times you tell them the human nose is not an animat subject. It's not like a car door that you can out and just, you know, get the right color. So, so, so now I'm much better about picking out those patients. I feel like the morph is the biggest. Leveling field. It's so helpful.
It's a tool that not a lot of my mentors had, they would just draw it out or draw an overlay over it. And now I have the power of Adobe and the power of all these like morphing programs. And so that's very helpful. And then just showing patients examples of other patients where, you know, I've had to take someone back because I didn't reduce their nose enough to their liking, or they had a soft tissue.
You know, poly beak that we had to inject and follow over time. So, I always start my conversations with that, that I like to follow my noses for my rhinoplasty patients for up to about a year. We're building a long-lasting relationship and you're going to be in my office at least five times during that journey.
And if you feel like you need to come in more often to ask questions, you know, I'm. I can definitely do that. So, so one of my patients didn't tell me that she had a chin implant in and wanted a rhinoplasty. And we talked about that a little bit. And then it came out in her second discussion. When, you know, we were talking about morphs and things like that.
So she was, you know, she's like, well, I'm going to enlarge the size of this. Eventually. I'm like, oh, well that would've factored into the whole morph discussion too beforehand. And then. So, so things come out, the more you meet with people. But I don't, I wish I had a magic potion. It's just sort of getting to know their personality through, you know, just talking a, a little bit more with them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, what happens when they bring the celebrity photos with them or show you on social media or they, are they going to tell you exactly how this is going to go? I, I think some of. Like they're giving you yellow flags often. Yes. And some of the surgeons ignore that saying, oh, please, I've been through this a million times. I, I can handle this and then they make fires on them.
But are there any big yellow flags like that? Or does your staff ever jump in and say something doesn't feel right here? How does that effect lessons learned from rhinoplasties?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. So, I always get the input of my staff because everybody has different interactions and that's very helpful. The one red flag, one patient, she, she made eight more for me of what her nose would look like.
And she's like, okay, can you look at it with this? I like this, but I don't like this. I want a little bit more of a slope. And not as much of this slope. I like it was, it was one. So, one such patient, another one you know, they're little things and sometimes it's just anxiety. But I would say nowadays, interestingly, I don't get the celebrity photos as much anymore.
And I think it's because we tell the patient that we'll create a more of you based on your features, your likeness and not, you know, someone else's like. You know, Kim Kardashians nose is not going to look good on someone with a round face, you know? And we talk about how this is important because you don't want to be like Michael Jackson, someone who like pursues surgery or after surgery, after surgery, because we didn't narrow down the essence of what you're looking for.
So, so I think that's helped a lot. The giving patients a, a more rendition of what their nose could look. And then using patient examples of other patients, who've been through the journey where sometimes it's just perfect. And sometimes it's not, sometimes you need a, you know, chin implant, and sometimes you're on the cusp and you can use fillers for a minute until you decide So, yeah, no magic solution.
When you find it, you let me know right. Cause I'll come to that course and I'll take that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. I'll keep watching and listening. But I have noticed though, the rhinoplasties patients are the happiest, most emotional patients. Yeah. They're the ones that they're, they're always crying on surgeonβs social media Instagram accounts on their rhinoplasties.
It's such a transformation for them. I'm thinking that's half of why you like it so much. It's so transformational. Have you noticed that? Yeah, like aren't the most satisfied when they'reβ¦
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yes, definitely. And I, I, my favorite thing to tell a patient is you're so focused on your nose. It has to be so perfect, but when it's balanced in your face, you don't notice it.
And no one else notices it after a while because it's not, no, it's no longer your leading feature for whatever reason. It's too big. It's too narrow. It's. Do page, it's a little off it's like once it's balanced, no one notices it anymore. And they always come back and say, you're absolutely right. I spent so much time fixate on it.
And now no one who says single thing about it. They say my eyes look better or something else, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think that's the biggest issue in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties. You, all of us are standing in the mirror, staring at the things we don't like about ourselves and it just compounds it every morning, just staring at you.
So, anyway so what, so now that you've been in practice, what, what words of wisdom in regards to lessons learned from rhinoplasties surgeons would you give to somebody else?
That's a little behind you to jump into the private arena.
Diana Ponsky, MD: I, you know, found that I liked managing that part of my world a little bit more than I expected when I went in, I didn't think, you know, well, I don't know anything about business. I didn't don't have any formal training in it. I don't know the single first thing about marketing and I enjoyed learning about it.
I enjoyed, you know, hearing, going to lectures and hearing about. The things we should do and the things we should look out for. So, to a younger colleague, I would say, you know, if you love the surgery and it is hard for you to do in the university, or if you want to make it your own and be your own boss, control your schedule better.
Then, then it's a good time to go out and start your own practice. I do feel on another level that private practice is going to swing the other way. So, with all the restrictions that we're seeing and all the hospitals showing more acute care patients that. That more physicians more are going to go out on their own.
And in fact, the AMA is starting a sub-sector of education on returning to private practice. What's going to work. What's not the, the, the group multi, you know, specialty groups. Are also not so popular now just because they are almost an institution. Right. And so, I, I think that more and more people to, to have control over their lives are going to think about it a little bit more.
So, I would just say, if you think this is what you want to do and the, and the, and the university or the academic arena is a little more challenging, look into it. I, I think people end up liking it more. So, well, I know when
Catherine Maley, MBA: I started this 22 years ago, I do have an MBA. So, when I was consulting, I would give you like an MBA education within a month, you know, like I have a 60-day program.
So, I mean, you could get you, I would fast track you and tell you what you need just specifically for this. You know, private practice as a plastic surgeon. And now everybody's doing that. Like, I mean, every, and even the doctors want to do what I do. Like, like everyone has jumped into, oh, let me teach you the business side and the marketing side of plastic surgery, because, well, frankly, You have to know it in today's world.
Yeah. You, you do need all of that. The best surgeon on the planet will get trumped by the best marketer on the planet, at least in the short run.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And if you're, if you're with one of those, if you have one of those in your area, they can reach have on you. And you're like, how dare they? They're not anything like me.
I'm way better surgeon than them, but they're way better at branding and marketing. So, oh boy, it's so interesting watching. Huh?
Diana Ponsky, MD: It, it definitely is. I mean, I you're the, you were the one that started out on this track before anybody else, and now there. I guess there's like yellow telescope, but not companies like that, that kind of gray are in that arena.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Oh. And quite a few of the surgeons now are very entrepreneurial and great at rhinoplasties as well, and they're getting into, let's say their own skincare lines or their own signs. I that too. Yeah. Signature procedure. And then some of them are you know doing like a franchise where they have built their prototype practice and now, they're going to franchise it out.
So, it's just been so interesting watching. How everyone's like finding their, you know, and there's no one answer when it comes to lessons learned from rhinoplasties. Yeah. Right. So, alright. So that's like all the questions I have for you. I just, I'm dying to talk about your family because I, when you said you had kids, I'm thinking, well, she looks so young.
She must have really little kids. And I thought, how is she doing all of this? And looks like she even taller than you. So how old are you?
Diana Ponsky, MD: She's yeah. She's 16. She is an inch taller than me. She likes to remind me every day. And then I have a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old too. So, all three girls and yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is anyone showing any promise of following you in your footsteps?
Diana Ponsky, MD: I don't think so. They all claim they don't. Well, so they're interested in the sciences, but they want to be vets rather than doctors right now. Oh, me too. Or artists. Yeah. So, or my oldest is very artistic. But I think she's, she's not, you know, interested in this field.
We'll see where it develops later, but she's saying she just wants to, you know, draw and travel the world and design things and paint on them. My middle child may end up here. She's like, She, she loves learning. She's super. Yeah. She picks up things real fast. So, we'll see. We'll see. We'll let them decide, you know, as long as they're happy, that's all we yeah.
Want. And as long as they work hard at what they want to do, that's all I'm asking of them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I mean, of course we all want to do what the, the first one's doing. She wants to do our art and travel the world. I mean, that, that sounds good to me too, but you got to have to have a plan to do that.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Right. So, I read about you.
You're one of seven. I don't you've made your own path though. You didn't, you didn't follow the yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, I know I'm still, I'm still, I'm traumatized by my childhood. I'm still getting over it. I was not meant to be in, I mean, the cliche, Irish family, seven kids. Yeah. Father drank too much the whole thing and I couldn't get out fast enough.
I thought this is way too noisy for me. It's way too chaotic. I, I am not meant to be here, so I will see you all later. And I came out to California. I'm from Chicago.
I'm sure you've heard a lot about Chicago. And I mean, I was destined to be married with seven kids and, and a husband who watches 10 hours of football every Sunday, and I thought, shoot me, you know, it's just not right.
I think that's what you just have to know that self, if that's not where, what you want. And so many people. Caught up in that, like they were told to be a doctor, they, or they were told to be a housewife like me and I, and you can say, okay, I'll, I'll do your program.
And then that's why you have a, a midlife crisis probably. Or you, you realize, wait a second, that's not where I'm heading.
So, and then you follow your own heart, but you have to work for it. You know? I mean, there's challenges to both roads, but anyways.
Diana Ponsky, MD: So, so you weren't kidding. You really were traumatized in your childhood.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, wasn't I wanted to be the only child. I wanted to be a princess. I wanted all focus on me. right. And nobody, I don't even think anyone learned my name. Like there were so many people there it's like, it just wasn't my, my style.
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yeah. yeah, I got it. I'm one of five. Girls. Okay. So, all girls? Yeah. All girls.
And I was like, do my girls. Yeah. I'm surrounded by girls. I can't escape it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But do you all get along?
Diana Ponsky, MD: We do actually, interestingly enough, I mean, I'm sure we had our, our share of fights when we were younger as the oldest. I don't remember all the fights because I probably, you know, like, yeah, I. So, but now we're all super close, so that's the best part.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Like I, my, my sister, my one sister that I just love, she's my best friend. I just love her. I see her every week and, and that's all I needed. I just. I just need one sister. Okay.
Yeah. Anyway, you know, I wanted to give out your website in case anybody wanted to, you know, to get ahold of you.
It's www.DrDianaPonsky.com. Yeah?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yes, yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And then you're also a rhinoplasties surgeon whoβs on Instagram and other social media channels. And is that, what is your handle on Instagram?
Diana Ponsky, MD: It's @Dr.DianaPonsky. So, yeah, same thing with Twitter and also Facebook's a little bit different. Facebook's @DianaPonskyFacialPlasticSurgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, all right, well thank you so much.
It has been a pleasure talking to you. I'll see you again in another meeting eventually. Yeah?
Diana Ponsky, MD: Yeah. I'll definitely, I would love to talk to you again.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz with Diana Ponsky, MD and her amazing discussion on lessons learned from rhinoplasties.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βLessons Learned From 1,500 Rhinoplasties - with Diana Ponsky, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#dianaponskymd #drdianaponsky #rhinoplastylessons #surgeonmarketing #socialmediaforsurgeons #rhinosurgeons
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Sheila Barbarino, MD has practices in LA and Austin.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βPractices in LA and Austin. How? - with Sheila Barbarino, MD".
When life throws you a curve ball, you have the choice to duck, run away or figure it out.
Thatβs what Sheila Barbarino, MD did. She figured it out.
Dr. Barbarino, a cosmetic surgeon of the face and body has a thriving practice in LA with celebrity clientele, lots of PR media opportunities and a great reputation as the go-to source for expert techniques for injectables, laser and aesthetic devices.
All was well until she experienced a pull to set up another practice in Austin, TX (you have to listen in to find out).
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is my interview with Dr. Barbarino describing her journey from LA to Austin to worldwide lecturer, innovator and industry thought leader.
Itβs quite a ride!
Visit Dr. Barbarino's Website
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Practices in LA and Austin. How? - with Sheila Barbarino, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now I'm very excited about today's guest.
It's Dr. Sheila Barbarino with practices in LA and Austin. I just love saying her name. Barbarino and she's a cosmetic surgeon of the face body, and she's got offices in Southern California and Austin, Texas. We're going to ask about that. Now, Dr. Sheila Barbarino is an industry thought leader. Innovator author of 15 papers, worldwide lecturer and trainer on expert techniques for injectables laser as well as aesthetic devices.
Now, Dr. Sheila Barbarino was born and raised in California and did her internship at New York Hospital and her residency in ophthalmology at New York Eye and Ear Infirmary. She then did a fellowship in general, full body, cosmetic plastic surgery at the Beverly Hills Surgical Group,, as well as a fellowship in facial plastic surgery at the Morro Institute.
Dr. Sheila Barbarino been a five time recipient of both the Compassionate Doctor Award, as well as the Patient's Choice Award recipient of the Aesthetic Multi-Specialty Society Award, LA Magazineβs Super Doctor Southern California, RealSelf Verified Doctor, and the coveted Woman of Achievement Award for Lupus β LA.
So welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Sheila Barbarino as you discuss your practices in LA and Austin, it is a pleasure to have you.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. So I'd love to start with how you got to where you are with practices in LA and Austin. Because most little girls don't grow up saying I want to be a surgeon. Then I want to be a facial surgeon. Then I want to be a facial plastic surgeon.
And then, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, I also want to go with the body. So just, can you give us a synopsis of your journey and how it relates to your practices in LA and Austin & thighs?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Sure. So originally I did my medical school at Jefferson university and I knew I wanted to have women as my patients, as my patient base.
I really am a girls girl, a woman's woman, you know? And so that really is, are the patients I really enjoy. And so I was, I thought I was going to go into OB GYN or something like that. And then I really got interested in Olo facial plastics because at Jefferson they have Will's Eye Institute, which is the eye Institute and they had a wonderful oculoplastics team there.
And that's when I was like, oh my gosh, this is what I want to do. So I went into ophthalmology and ocular facial plastics, which is my bread and butter, and that's what I really love. And along with all the other things, but we'll get into that. So after I finished my first fellowship in ocular facial plastics, you know, I came out and my patients are like, wait, so you only do bye.
So. Like eyes and like, I don't understand. And I'm like, no, no, no. It's like, it's a really big deal. You know, like that's a really important area. And you know, patients that were really happy with me were like, well, can you do other things, you know, can you, can you do life a section? Can you, and then I started to realize that, you know, maybe I would like to go a little bit below the neck and do other things.
And then I'm like, gosh, you know, that requires more training. So that's what I went to Beverly Hills, you know, where else are you going to learn? Great body plastics. And so that's why I did a whole body cosmetic. Body plastic surgery, fellowship. And that was a ton of fun. And I learned lots of things there, and I learned how to do lipo and fat transfer and all these other fun things.
And then I started really analyzing my techniques as a facial plastic surgeon. And I was like, gosh, you know, I want to learn from the best, I want to be an even better facial plastic surgeon, because I saw so many bad facelifts in Beverly Hills, you know, hopefully not for me, but you know, but I did believe that there's got to be another.
Level of really knowing a really good face. And so I did an extra facial plastic surgery fellowship after, as my third fellowship. So over trained, but you know, I think that it has really given me a really strong foundation for everything I do, as far as injectables injectables. It's, you know, people are always like, well, why do you still do injectables?
And I, I love my injectable practice. And the reason is, is because you really get to know your patients, you get to know their stories, you get to hear about their families. You get, hear, you know, kind of foster their journey. Their beauty journey in every step. So you, you start off with them when they first take their first sleep with you with Botox and injectables and lasers, and then later on, continue their journey with surgery.
So I really enjoy that aspect of my practice as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, it sounds like your business model, in regards to your practices in LA and Austin is kind of like a one stop shop or women who want to not only get to the looks they want, but reserve the looks they have, or even renovate (at your practices in LA and Austin) or rejuvenate the looks they used to have. So -
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, you're doing that with surgical as well as nonsurgical and you're going face and body at your practices in LA and Austin.
So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino , you've got all angles covered as a business with practices in LA and Austin. Has that been complicated because you need different skill sets, different staff, different processes. Sure. What about that part? Like, you know how you can go two different, you can go lot to different ways, but one way is pick a procedure, get good at it and, and put your, you know, flag in the stand.
And, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, this is going to be my procedure, or you go the way you're doing it, which no I'm going to be everything to everybody (at your practices in LA and Austin), but for a specific patient target market. So which your strategy on that?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I can honestly say that. I certainly do like every other surgeon, I have my favorite surgeries that I like to perform.
And then there's some surgeries that, you know, I, I know I can get a home run surgery surgical results on this patient. And then there's some that I'm like, you know what, there's someone that's better in town that does this particular procedure that you need. And so I think that being a good surgeon is not only knowing.
You know how great of a surgeon you are, but also knowing that, you know, there are other procedures that you might be better at. And so I think that that's really where I have kind of come into my own is I've really understood what I'm good at and kind of, you know, sent my patients to other surgeons, why I feel like that's maybe not my best procedure or maybe I can't achieve the result that they're looking for, because it's maybe more of a difficult case and not, you know, a home run slam dunk result.
And, you know, as a female, as a VA, female and very aesthetic female, you know, I want the best outcome, whether it's me or it's my patient or my family member or my best friend. And so I think that that's ultimately, you know, my true intention for every single patient that I see and that I think kind of gives me a little bit of an edge because I think.
Most doctors don't take it as personal as I do, you know, because I look at them and I'm like, gosh, if I were them, this is what I really want to see on myself. And can I get that result for this patient if I can't then I'm certainly not the doctor for them, you know? And, and that's okay. You know, I think that they'll appreciate me even more if you know, the honesty is there and the sincerity is there and you know, my intention is for them to be the most beautiful version of themselves, you know, who doesn't want to be that, you know, every single day.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, is the goal in regards to your practices in LA and Austin, versus a one, you know, a one⦠What's it? One and done?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: One and hundred percent. I think that, that I have my entire practice has. Rested on the last patient I've seen. I can honestly say that, you know, in California, when I first started my practice, you know, that first patient has still been with me, you know, to this day.
And it's really important to me. And everyone says, you know, oh, going back and forth between Austin and LA you know, that must be tough. And it really isn't, especially when I get a catch up and see my patients and see, you know, what's happened with their families and what's happened with their lives and, you know, really been on board with their beauty journey.
I think that my patients have followed me from, you know practice to, you know, different practice locations and all of these things, they've been super loyal and I feel the same way about them. And like you said, a patient for life is really the goal. You know, I always say whether we do something today, tomorrow, next year, or never, you know, I like to make a beauty plan for the next, you know, 10, 20 years until I retire until we both retire rich, you know?
And I think that that's, you know, ultimately that's what I really want in a patient. So, you know, if they are one of those, you know patients that do in Austin, believe it, or not more than LA, I see a lot of these patients that kind of doctor shop and talk hop from one doctor than next. You know, they're unhappy one little thing and then they hop to the next and then something else happens instead of going back to the doctor and giving them the chance to correct that.
Procedure, you know, we're not mind readers. If the doctor really wasn't clear or wasn't familiar with your, you know, muscle, you know, structure or everything, you know, all of these things, you know, come into account when you're treating a patient. So you really have to take all these things into account.
And if you haven't known the patient for too long, or if you haven't had this patient for years and years and years, you don't know what this patient's expecting as far as an outcome. So if you work together, just like, you know, I always joke around that work kind of overpriced hairdressers, you know, because really, you know, when I look at your hair, your hair is beautiful, but you have a very different hair type than I do.
Right. So, you know, if I were to go to your hair person and say kind of do the same thing that Katherine has, you know, I doubt that they're going to give me you know, a look of oh yeah, no problem. Right. And they shouldn't. Right. They need to know what my aesthetic goal is. And that's what I think I really want patients and other doctors to really take away from this is that, you know, really understanding your patient's aesthetic goals is I think the most important part of the consult then, you know understanding that they have, you know, a timeline that they need to get ready for or understanding that they didn't like this surgeon.
You know, when people say. I don't like what this provider did for me. What I like to do is I like to ask what they didn't like, because I think that it's so quickly, especially all of us that know each other in the business so quickly, we're like, oh, I know what they do. I know why you didn't like what they did.
I can see it a mile away. You really want to know what there's so many times that, you know, I'm looking at someone's duck lips that are like the most ridiculous thing that I've ever seen in my life. And they're like, oh, I didn't like the filler that this, you know, provider gave me. And I'm like, well, I can see why I'm in those lips.
Just smack me in the face, on the way in, you know? But then when talking the patient, they're like, oh no, I love my lips. It's cheeks that I didn't like. And you're like, what, what are you talking about? Yeah. So, you know, to really get to know what your patients, you know, like and what they don't like in, in learning from, you know, past mistakes and things like that, that really does help.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, from a patient's perspective, even at practices in LA and Austin, I love going to the same provider, because number one, if I'm comfortable, I will complain directly. I won't leave. I, because I, I like that person and we have a nice relationship. One of the reasons they're leaving is because they don't think. Anything's going to happen, you know, that's good.
So they might as well start over with someone else (even at practices in LA and Austin), but as a very busy professional, I'm not dying to run all over town and create, I just want my, like, just like my hairstylist, my hair is this long because I go to somebody who understands that .
I don't want short hair, you know? And I come back very regularly for the last, what, 25 years.
And she gives me what I want. I know what's I expect I get what I expect. And I'll tell you, I think in today's world, this Uber competitiveness the more relationships you have of that, that solid relationship, where that patient wouldn't go anywhere else, but with you, I mean, that's just priceless,
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Priceless.Yeah. I would rather have 10 of those every day than 25 new ones. I mean, really those, you know, it's quality, not quantity. And I, I always, you know, joke around with my staff, you know, that's, if we have. You know especially during these times that like, you know, people are getting sick, you know people are traveling, you know they didn't make their flight, whatever the case is.
And we have these unexpected cancellations and we always joke around, we always say quality, not quantity, right. So we can make the day a very fiscally successful day, you know, off, you know, even the smallest amount of patients. Because if you take the time and, you know, imagine. Kathryn, when you go to your provider, if all of a sudden they have an extra hour to spend with you and you're like, well, you know what, why don't we finally do all those things that we were talk about doing?
And I never really, you know, blocked out the time or you were always running a little bit late. Right. And you can spend that time to like really do all those things or plan for the future of what you're going to do for those things, which is, you know, important quality time that, you know, often we don't are, we're not fortunate enough to get in our day, you know, mm-hmm
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, regarding the business side of things and how it relates to your practices in LA and Austin, I donβt know if you have a D.D. or what, but you are in two locations, not only do you offer a lot of procedures, but you're in two locations now I'm also in California, Northern California.
And I used to have a rental property and a love life in Austin, Texas. I know it quite well. I know that area very well. It's super competitive now. It feels like the whole world ended up in Austin. So not only have you chosen once tough location, but you also have LA. Which is the other huge competitive location.
So, what is your thought process at your practices in LA and Austin? How are, how did you end up starting another practice? And then how do you manage two practices that you're at half the time?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: So, it wasn't a conscious choice of going into another market that was so competitive that you can't even breathe. It's I actually think Austin is become more crowded than LA because of it being a smaller town.
LA is much more spread out. And, but I think that Austin is such a small town. I mean, there are. On my one street, I think there are like 27 providers that do exactly what I do, which is -
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know your street very well in Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. And I thought, oh dear, she's playing a bigger game boy. Cause that's it's and they're heavy hitters there. They're not just, you know, I mean they're solid, you know?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll be honest. I'll I can honestly say that. I think there are good and bad providers in Austin. I haven't seen as many, I feel like in LA if you're not really good, you kind of get kind of creamed. I don't know what other word to say.
Like, you know, you kind of put yourself out of business here. I don't think that that's the case. I think that there are, I've seen horrible, horrible, horrible providers, and I've seen really, really good providers. So I think it's kind of runs the gamut. So it's, it's different, but the reason why I came here was my husband came home.
I don't know how many years ago now and said, you know as you know, a lot of the bigger companies have moved out of California because if you employ over, I think it's 150 workers, but my husband was like, he employs probably about 400 and he's like, I've got to move my company. He's just like Toyota and Lexus and everybody else out of the state of California, because it became so employee friendly that you couldn't even run a business.
And so he's like, we're going to Nevada, Texas, or Florida. And I was so busy in my LA practice that I was like, well, I'm not going anywhere. I'm super busy. I'm good. You go, you go, do you? Yeah. He bought two, 300,000 square foot buildings here in Texas and. We, he kind of went back and forth for about a year.
And then he was like, you know what? I need you to, you know, kind of my son and I to move there. And I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, well, I, you know, you're an entrepreneur, like I'm a doctor. We don't like just pick up and like move, you know? And I was already established doctor in LA and I was like, I don't want to start over.
It's hard work. And he was like, no, it's going to be great. And then, you know, one by one, like I said, the first year, you know, you're kind of sitting around whistling Dixie and then, you know, those. Few patients start telling other patients what was really nice was originally actually, when I first got here Austin was producing a lot of HBO and NBC and ABC and Netflix stuff.
And they were giving a lot of incentives to those companies. And so a lot of my, you know a, B, C, E D E, whatever actresses and actors from LA were actually seeing me here which was kind of really fun and nice, you know, and they were driving a lot of business to me, which was really, I was really grateful.
And you know, like you said, you know, one happy patient can drive so many patients and, and to see you. And I think that, like you said, if they have a good relationship with you and they're like, you know, I like normally what you do, but I hated the way you did my lips. This is not what I wanted. And you're like, no problem.
You know? And I think that, like you said, you grow together and you figure out what your, you know, beauty recipe is or what you want to look like, what you want to feel like. And then once the provider and you come to that kind of understanding, then, you know, just like a good hairs is just like a good, you know, personal stylist.
So once they know your style, then we can really bring out the, the best version of you in every way. You know, every time like you said, I attend all these conferences. I go home thinking of like, oh my gosh, this product is perfect for that one patient that I didn't know what to use on her. And I wasn't really sure if this was, you know, she wanted something more long lasting and then I go home and I'm like, I figured it out.
I I've got a solution come on in. Let's try to work on it, you know? And I think that one thing that my patients really do appreciate is that. I'm always willing to try new and different things and really grow and You know, keep up with all the changes in aesthetics. I mean, that's, I think the best part about being an aesthetics is that it is, there's always something new that people are coming out with that are in that's innovative and you know, is really pushing the aesthetic bar.
Right. And that's what we all want to do. And so I think that that's why I become so engaged with the meetings and my colleagues, because I think that we can all really help each other just become better and better and better. And I think that, that's why I do it. You know, I think that there's, yes, there's always going to be a lot of crappy, you know equipment that comes through products that come through and as we share.
You know our experiences with them that we won't make those mistakes with our patients. We won't have to buy that crappy equipment that, you know, we thought would be so great and, and, you know practice changing in our, our, you know each individual practice. But if we go to the meetings and we try the modality and we talk to you and you're like, you know what, that's just not a good investment.
You it's, it's not the, return's just not there. I think that's super helpful for all of, so, you know, all of don't have to keep making the same mistakes before we had these amazing platforms to share ours.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Dr. Sheila Barbarino , I'm still hung up on that and how youβve gotten so good at your practices in LA and Austin, because I know what it takes to run one office. To run two offices, are you duplicating everything or are you more in Austin? And now you're just slipping over to LA to do some injectables? How is that working between your practices in LA and Austin?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I do three weeks in Austin and one week in LA and I, I would like to make it sound like it's easy, but it's not easy.
You know, none of it is easy. I, I would love it to be easy and some days are easier than others, but, you know so I have one EMR that kind of covers both. I have, you know an EMR for here in Austin, Texas, and one in LA, but they both connect. So at any point I can always pull my file from LA or Austin, wherever I am.
And like you said, I, I do attend many other conferences, so I do kind of need that kind of remote satellite. So I make sure that my Austin office manager or my Elliot. Office manager are very good friends and that they're very good touch. I think that one thing that I've really implemented especially during COVID that I had time to sit down and write like my practices and procedures, so that if I were to, you know, God forbid, you know, die or, or whatever it is, you know, everybody could actually follow what needs to be done every single day, including seeing the patients, including you know, pre-op them for surgery, post-op them for surgery.
So they just have to look through the surgical book or the daily practices book, you know, and it goes, as far as, you know, my husband jokes around, he's like, do you think it's a little degrading to write, you know, turn on the light, turn on the music. And I'm like, no, no, they'll never miss it. Right. I mean I don't know about you, but you know, I think the reason why.
I'm a good surgeon and I am a good provider. It's because every single time I see every single patient, I do have a mental checklist, including how old is this patient? Does this patient smoke? You know, what's the demographic of this patient? Is she, what skin type is this patient? You know, I go through a mental checklist and I, I want the reason why I did such a silly, you know, turn on the lights, turn on the music, turn on the, the TV, you know make sure everything's clean is so that they, it starts to become autopilot.
You know, that, that autopilot checklist. And that's why, when I'm looking at somebody in clearing room for surgery, you know, I never, no matter how tired I am, no matter what's going on, whether my I'm sick, the kid's sick, you know people are quitting or being fired or whatever the case is. When you have that, that mental checklist, you're never going to forget it because it's the same thing you do every single time, all the time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, when you take the time to figure out these processes on everything at your practices in LA and Austin, and actually document them with checklists and we go so far as to documenting them with videos. So we call it the how to video library and it's to do our business because there is nothing worse than having that one staff person who thinks they're indispensable because they've set themselves up for that because you allowed it and we've all made that mistake -
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Enabled it. Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then when it happens, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, you're like, are you kidding me? I don't know what to do without this person. I don't want to be in that vulnerable position anymore. And so many practices are set up (even those practices in LA and Austin For sideways, things like that to happen. I just, I've gotten to be really serious about how do you do what you're doing and get it on video because you can walk out the door or get hit by a bus or quit or whatever I need to know. What are, what are you doing here?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: yeah, no, I think that's amazing. I think that that's so key, you know, I didn't like you I've been held by the throat by many people that I've hired and then, you know, they have their secret passwords and their secret notebook that, you know, you're like, well, I don't even know how to, you know, check of my medical licenses up to date without, you know, her checking it, you know?
And it's so freeing to you know, you obviously always want to keep those people that are loyal to you know, close at hand, but unfortunately, like you said, you know, there is sometimes people get a little too big for their britches and you know you don't ever want anybody to. Not stay humble and appreciative of the practice.
And I do think that, you know, you don't want to be held by the throat. You don't want to ever feel like this person a week today. We can't practice seeing patients unless this person shows up. You know, I don't, I've, I've been there. I had actually I, I had a, an ma that she, you know, is, was lovely and she does a great job, but she really, you know, said to me, you know, that you know, people like me, you know, are very hard to find.
And I agree with her, you know, but one morning, you know, she really, you know, got a little too big for her riches and I, we, I was operating and she's like, you know, just finish the surgery. And I said, you know, I'm not. I'm not going to finish the surgery because it's not safe for the patient. It's not because I don't want to finish the surgery.
The patient was had really high blood pressure that was not controlled and it wasn't being controlled by the medication and everything we did it just, you know, and she was like, well just go back in there and just finish it. I know you can do it. You know? And I said, again, I'm not canceling the surgery because I don't want to do it.
It's because it's not safe. You know? And she said, well, I don't like the, the way you're talking to me. I'm going to go home today. And why don't you call me when you want me to come back? And I said, you know I'm going to need you to leave your key, you know? And I, I really loved her. I, I love her still, you know, and we've made amend since then, but you know, you can't have somebody that in a stressful, it's already a stressful situation.
Right. You know, I wanted to perform the surgery. I wanted this patient to be happy. There's no, although. Anesthesia's there, you know, patient's there, you know, the driver's there, everybody's counting on me to complete the surgery, but it's not safe, you know? And it's not her call and she should have supported, you know, the decision, but instead that's, that's when you're going to walk out on me, you know, so, you know, I, I don't ever want to feel like being held by the throat ever again.
You know, it's, it's, it's a tough feeling and I think putting policies and procedures in place, you know, even if, you know, like you said, when I walk away, I can give somebody a binder and say, listen, this is what you need to learn. I'll be back in a week and then let's start from there. And I think that, that, there's so many times that when I hire new people, they're like Dr.
B what do I do with this? And I'm like, check the binder, check the binder. And the reason why I do that is not lazy that I don't teach it's self-reliant and be able to look it up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I hear you loud and clear and how this impacts your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino.
A long time ago, a mentor friend of mine said, it's not if a, a staff person goes bad, it's when, and I thought that is so negative.
I thought that is just, but look at how quickly it can change.
Like you loved your Aunt Mae. It just takes one emotional moment. And it's like, what the heck happened? You know, Dr. Sheila Barbarino?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: And I still love her. Yeah. But like, you know, I certainly can't have her, you know, acting like that. Right. Cause it's just, you know, I was already like I don't think I can finish this, you know, because in my mind it's like, can I do this surgery?
Can I do, can I just, is this guy going to stop bleeding enough for me to just get in there and do, and then it's like, no, he's not. Is it, you know? And then, you know, at that point. In my mind, I just had to start going down that road of like, okay, you know, we need to just take a breath. Let's let me close him up.
We'll bring him back. There's always another day, you know? And instead of having, you know, a fatal complication that, you know, God forbid he stroke out, God forbid he bleed out. God forbid he has a retro balm where hematoma, I mean, any of these things can happen and that's truly devastating. Right? So for me to like, you know, waste an afternoon is not that bad.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and, and following your own intuition is everything, especially at your practices in LA and Austin.
I think women are better at that anyway than men, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. But, Every surgeon asked when they've had like a catastrophic thing happen to them, like a lawsuit or a death or something they always say the same thing I thought I could handle (even for practices in LA and Austin). I just thought I could handle it. and I, and I turns out I couldn't it.
So I think, listen to yourself, you know, listen to your, you know, that other secret mind of your saying this doesn't feel right anyway. Now that -
Sheila Barbarino, MD: That, that is a big thing that you, that you highlighted that I think that if I can tell my colleagues, one thing is listen to your intuition more. Cause I, every time I have I'm like, oh my God, that was so much worse than I thought mm-hmm there was a patient that I was going to do surgery on and I looked at his labs and I'm like, you know, these don't look right.
And I called his oncologist and he said, he's been in remission for years. Like, and this guy was really quite nasty and he is. Oh, I thought you, you were a big, you know, deal, blah, blah, blah. Like don't tell me you're going to, you know, get all wimpy on me about, and I'm like, well, no, I'm just trying to be safe and blah, blah, blah.
And, you know, I said, you know, I just don't feel good about these labs. And he said, oh, it's just a side effect of one of the medications. It's, he'll be fine. He just had surgery last week on its carpal tunnel, blah, blah, blah. And you know, I, I, he was so nasty. And so like, you know, taunting, you know, oh, you can't handle it.
It's just a little eyelid surgery. And I was like, Ugh, what, how condescending? And then I looked at his labs again and I said, you know what? I don't, I don't want to do this today. This is not, this doesn't feel right. And I, I said, you know what and I called his, the doctor's office and said, you know what, give him some, you know I V I G and, and, you know, then we will reassess and maybe I'll bring him back next week.
And he saw him back in the office and apparently he had come out of remission. He had full blown yeah, CLL again. And it was like, I'm like this guy, if I brought him back, he would've never stopped bleeding. And so, you know, there are so many times that I'm. You know, I mean, when I got back to the office and everyone's like, oh, how did Mr.
Soandso do? And I'm like, Ugh, I actually decide not to do it. And this doesn't happen often, just because I'm telling you about these two isolated, you know, you have to remember I'm in a surgeon for what, 16 years, 17 years. And you know, these are just isolated incidents that I'm like, God, I'm so glad I listened to like my gut and decided not to do that. You know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. So let's switch over to the more fun side. The marketing side of having your practices in LA and Austin. I like that one the best because you can control that better.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: You're, you're in the person to go from this, your wheel. I love it. So from you, for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, regarding differentiating when it comes your practices in LA and Austin, you have differentiated yourself in a couple ways.
Number one, I mean, you're, you're using your womanness as you should, because it comes across as very caring, but I mean, women just must love you. And I love that.
You're the girlβs girl, you know, you're really pretty, but you're still really natural and normal and yeah, most patients actually don't want to go to a Barbie doll, especially for practices in LA and Austin, you know, like you can't lookβ¦
Thereβs a patient for everybody, but especially Austin. It's much more natural there.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah. So that's great, you know, you know, the market . Yeah. Have you noticed a big difference between the demographics of the. A hundred percent. I mean, people, you know, it's, you know what I think it's really funny is you, every once in a while I get these like, you know, 60 year old patients that have not done anything and they come in there and, you know, they have everything going on and they're like, I know you're going to say I don't need anything.
And they have, you know, gray hair and I'm like, Oh, honey. I, I donβt know if you've read the reviews, but I'm not going to say that but, you know, I, I think that I, I, you know, I, I think it's interesting that you're saying that, you know, using my womanness, but, you know, I don't, I don't think of it like that. I really think that in my, my male colleague is, can attest, you know, I think my most engaging conversations with all of them are probably about the business, because I think I love talking about aesthetics and that, you know, but I mean, I, you know, I really don't have them too common with them.
I really ha I was raised by my single mom and you know, so I really feel good when I make other people feel good and beautiful and you know, and like I said, you know, even. You know, when I was deciding what kind of doctor I wanted to be, I knew I wanted to be a woman's, you know, doctor, because I think that that's, you know, naturally what I gravitate towards, but I do believe in women empowerment, I do think it's important to support other surgeons within our field that are female.
I think it, it. I God bless. We have the amazing male surgeons in the field as well, but I think it must be really tough for them. I don't know how they do it, because I think that, you know, when I wake up in the morning and I see my jowls and I see, you know, my, my eyebrows and I'm like, gosh, I would just look so much better if it was just up here, you know, I don't know how you know, anybody could have that perspective unless they, they really do not only empathize with a problem, but sympathize with a problem.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you Dr. Sheila Barbarino. Yeah, it's just, I just Guarantee, I'm just positive that your patients open up to you more on the emotional side of why they want this versus keeping it clinical, in regards to your practices in LA and Austin, because you actually can't bond with somebody when they're staying surfaced, you know, you need to share feelings.
So, I mean, I would just use that as much as possible, but another way you differentiate. you definitely have some guts.
I'm watching your thread rhinos.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Oh, God.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. At your practices in LA and Austin , like what just, can you explain that? And did you make that up or? I never had seen that before.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: It's very cool. Right. So in my face my facial Plastic surgery, fellowships. I learned how to do rhinos. I have to tell you, it's probably not my favorite surgery to do.
It's because it's exact opposite of everything I've ever learned to, to do surgically. So, you know, all of my surgeries are very meticulous and very soft and very precise and rhinos I think are very aggressive and very. Pounding and, and rearranging and very aggressive with the tissue. And I'm just never really like that.
But I think that when, when I did do rhinos, I don't do them anymore. I didn't enjoy them the way I enjoy my other surgeries, because I, I had such great outcomes, you know, and I think that I had great outcomes with rhinos, except it just takes so much longer to get there. Number one, and number two, you know, the nose constantly changes as we age three things continue to grow on our face.
Our ears are Chan in our noses. And so, it's a constantly evolving thing. And I, I also am someone that does appreciate. Different beauty, not just the Barbie beauty or, you know, stereotypical beauty. I think that I appreciate, you know, very strong noses. I appreciate curve noses. I appreciate all those different kinds of noses.
So sometimes when be positions would come in and they're like, I don't like this. And I'm like, gosh, I think it looks really good on your face, you know? And I understand that everybody there's something about everybody that they don't like. I feel like noses are one of those things that, you know, I I'm looking at the dad and the mom that are there with the kid for the rhino.
And I'm like, gosh, you guys all have this nose. It's so adorable that you guys all share this one feature and it's beautiful. And when I started doing threads you know, we, we did the liquid rhinos with the filler and, you know, obviously there's the high risk of the complications such as blindness and ischemia.
It's very high in that area. And so I thought, well, gosh, you know threads don't have that particular side effect or possible complication. And so what's really nice is that some people, you know, when they have the wider nose and they just need a little bit of elevation, you can. Kind of tent up this sleeve that we use in surgery with the thread and it kind of tents it up as well as putting them down here to rotate the nose, which is actually beautiful.
It's a beautiful result and it's so instant and quick, and there's very little swelling. Patients really love it. And I actually love it too, because you know, even I've done so many liquid rhinos and even when I do them now, I still I'm like, okay, let's do this. Let's, you know, there's always a case of, you know, small case of blindness and vascular ischemia when we do this area, you know, and I tell every patient that, but still, you know, there's always that part of me in the back of my mind that says that this can be a complication with this procedure.
And when I do the nose with the threads, that isn't a question that's not even in, in my mind when I'm doing that, which is great.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, if you're watching this thread rhino & thighs procedures on Instagram from your practices in LA and Austin, on your videos, it looks so Dangerous. I mean, I, I just, I thought, oh dear God, that's, there's no way, like, you're putting that needle all the way through their nose.
I'm just thinking what could go wrong with that?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: No, it's actually fairly safe. What, you know, as long as you know what you're doing, of course, you know, every, every single procedure can be dangerous. If you don't know what you're doing. However, I'm using a cannula that, you know, I put at the tip of the nose and I'm putting it all the way through here.
It's fairly relatively safe. And like I said, once you get patients numb, it really doesn't hurt. And, you know, with the, the liquid rhinos, you often have a little bit of swelling and bruising just like you would with any other filler, but with the threads, because I'm only putting numbing down here and down here, it really doesn't have much swelling and bruising at all.
It's so funny that you say that it looks so crazy. Because the first time my, my husband he was drinking coffee in the morning and he opened up to Instagram to, to see me going in and doing a nose thread. And he's like, like spits it all out. He's like that stuff shouldn't be on the, and I said, well, you know what?
I think really demonstrates. How you know, it doesn't hurt and how, how much change you can really impact you can really make on the nose with, in, in what I do it in five minutes or less, maybe 10.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. So, for your practices in LA and Austin, you have, see how you have all different things. You have the rhino, you know, then I also saw a thigh lift, you know, with the threads.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yep.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, and like, how do you, how do you market your practices in LA and Austin?
Everyone's everywhere because you have different age groups. I'm, I'm going to think of the genders now because they would love that the men would love that at your practices in LA and Austin as well as the women.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: So, oh, they do, they do love it. And men, men love believe it or not.
Men loved the jawline, the jawline I really thought was more of a female procedure because you know, all of us need, you know, balancing and all of us, but men and we all hate this, what woman doesn't like this area. Right. And, but men, it makes them look very masculine and leaner and they love it.
It really makes the biggest difference in their face. And so how do I market for it? I mean, you know, I think that if you do good work and you know, people will come, I try every once in a while. I, you know, obviously listen to you. I I'm a big fan. That's why I'm so honored to be part of this podcast. So, you know I think that, you know, I'm mainly a.
You know, primarily a face person, but I, I love my lipo. I love doing my BBL. Like you said, you know oftentimes when patients are so happy with all of this, they're like, well, what can we do now with this? And what can we do with this? And like you said, I think that patients, when they really get to trust you.
And they really understand your aesthetic and what you are willing to do. I think that's when they're like, well, let's look at my button now. Let's look, let's look at my knees, you know? And I think that it keeps me innovative too, because I'm like, well, I, I don't know, what can we do about that? You know?
And like I said, as a, a vain woman myself, I'm like, gosh, my arms are getting flabby. My, the back of my hands do look Vaya and old, you know, what can we do about that? And so I think that, you know, part of my journey is keeping all of us looking young, including myself. So, you know, is self-interest a little bit, you know, do I want to be the best at what I do?
Of course I do. You know, and do I want to get the best results? Yes. And I want to be able to, you know, share it with my patients, you know? And I think that that's and as far as like actual dollars in marketing, I think that everyone, you know, I, I don't really do that much. I do some real self. I do some occasional ads in, in local papers or ma magazines that I'll see.
But only once in a while. You know, I, I actually have a question for you. I think that more and more, a lot of these things are becoming paid. Like awards paid advertising and it, people are falling for it left and right. And part of me is like, kind of feels unethical about paying for being the best plastic surgeon in, you know, Austin, Texas, and yep.
People come in all the time and they're like, oh, so and so down the street, they're the best, you know, Austin's best. And I'm like, you know, they paid for that and it's like 20,000. They offered the same thing. But I do, I don't say that to them obviously. But how do you feel about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: There's reality when it comes to practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. And then there's morals, you know, and you have to decide what your values are, especially when it comes to practices in LA and Austin, or New York for that matter.
If you really do think you are the best, you can't say that and you need a third party to say it, and that's where the pay to play comes in. So I, I just know a really good marketer can, can out outspend somebody, outsmart somebody else. Who's not willing to market. If you, I don't know if you can rest on your laurels as much in today's world with all the fanfare going on and yeah, the influencers there's so much coming at us that you really do start saying, oh, you're the best good.
I can stop looking. You know, I, so. You just have to, you have to, you know, figure that out. Like, what are you willing? How far are you willing to go?
But like, let's say for example, social media you can have a ton of people on there saying how great you are and you do the best at your practices in LA and Austin, but I would make it so authentic. I would really choose from the people who already know, like, and trust you.
They're already coming to you at your practices in LA and Austin. Hopefully they're an influencer. And I know in LA there's a guy, I won't say who it's, but right on his patient intake form, like the third question. How many followers do you have?
And, he only selects those who have, A certain amount of followers. And then he literally works with them and says, you know what I'm and they have an agreement I'm going to do great work for you, and you're going to share it to the world.
So you have to just decide how far you're willing to go with that.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: That's interesting. Yeah. Do you think that it's, it's worth working with influencers and that type of you know, medium?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it could be such a double-edged sword. Everyone's really happy at the beginning when the agreement just started and there's, it can always go sideways.
So like everything else in life there's such duality to that they can be your worst, you know, your worst nightmare, your best friend. So that's why I like to go internal anyone organically, anyone who already loves you and they happen to. Be somebody, you know, that's terrific, but I would just be so careful with boundaries.
Because a lot of them like the influencers, they want an awful lot for nothing. And I just think, I just think we're getting smarter as a consumer and it just, you know, when it feels funny, you can,
I, you can usually feel like a paid ad. You know, you can feel the difference in that. So, I would always say first start organically, just hang around with the patients who already know you, who also have friends right here.
Like, you know, like, why not stay in Austin? Like you don't need, you don't need influencer in New York if you're over here. Yes. This doesn't make any sense to me just because, and it just because Kim Kardashian, I pretty sure consumers all know Kim Kardashian is paid now at this pointing.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: She doesn't do anything she gets paid.
Catherine Maley, MBA Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so, a lot of, unless yeah.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Paid ad.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Regarding social media, when it comes to your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, would you say that's one of your biggest marketing channels?
For finding new patients for your practices in LA and Austin. Where are your new patients?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: You know, word of mouth is my biggest for sure. I, you know, I can honestly say that. It's so funny because I always talk to my husband about getting better SEO, but people find me on the internet pretty quickly.
I think Instagram does drive business, especially in Austin. There's, you know, it's a very techy town as you know. And so they do find me there. Oftentimes they'll follow my friends from, you know, because everyone's moving here. Right. So you know, they used to see, oh, you know, I think another my colleagues recommend patients.
I think that's a really big compliment and you know, like I just had a patient that moved from New Jersey and one of the providers that I knew there said, oh if you want someone there go to, you know, Dr. Barno and she's been. I love her. She's like one of my favorite patients. She's a who, but, you know, I think that that's my strongest.
I, I, I'm always looking for different ways to market. I just, you know, the geotargeting I've been trying, I think that's working well you know, with, but you can only do like one kind of thing at a time. So like we did salt facial, we're doing our new laser. You know, I, I hardly doubt that surgery sold like that.
so I don't know. You know, we're, we tried to do a virtual event, which was very successful, you know, I think, you know, it's a whole new world out there for marketing, so, you know, I'm still kind of navigating my way too.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Sheila Barbarino you're doing a good job at your practices in LA and Austin with your Instagram lives, you know?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you're willing to do that at your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino.
Most surgeons aren't, they're not comfortable. You look very natural and comfortable and entertaining, so that has to be working well for you.
My only issue, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, is the reach is good, but it's so at that point you're just trying to bring. You know, that's quantity versus quality because you'll get a, a, an array of, of leads, but somebody's got to get through those because I don't call them leads yet.
I call them inquiries. These people are far, far away.
You know, they love you, but the, when it gets down to it, how do I work with you? Like, I have to fly. I have to stay at a hotel.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: I have to have a big screen and automobiles. Yeah. How do I, how do they get to me? Yeah. And what does that mean, monetarily?
Is it like you said, is it a one hit wonder kind of patient that kind of comes in? We do everything and they leave. I have had those patients from Instagram. You're correct. And I, I, I can honestly say those are, I think they're my least favorite kind of patients, because I want to see their follow up. I want to see how happy they are. If they're happy, if they're not happy, I don't care.
I want to see them after their procedure and it's too far for them to go. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. But, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, it's good for your ego when you have a whole bunch of people following you and seeing your practices in LA and Austin. I get that, like, you know, when you guys work really hard to become surgeons and it's so nice that you're appreciated and your skill is acknowledged, especially for practices in LA and Austin.
I totally get that. And then I become their business person. OK, wait a second. Where's the real money coming from, like follow the money. But, but do what you're doing.
Do you have any idea how much time you're spending on social media to promote your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino? Cause that's one of my issues is it takes you to do it because you're the personality.
And then I think, you know, could you be doing something else? Two hours a day. You know, that's more, I donβt know, I donβt know what the answer is, but what's it for you?
Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I actually just did a social media panel with Steve, Diane and Kay. Dage at VCs. I, I don't know if you saw it or not. No, but it was, it was great.
It was really interesting. And I probably have the least followers out of all of them and you know, A while ago I asked Kate Dage and she's awesome. She's a good friend. And I'm like, how many hours do you spend doing your social media day? Cause I was just kind of getting going. And that was probably about three, three years ago, me three and a half years ago.
And I'm like, you know, just so I know, like how much time a day I should really invest in this. And she's like, like three hours a day and I'm like, that's a lot of time. And honestly, to me, that's too much time for me to do that, you know, and I'm busy enough, so I I'm not doing that. So I limit it to one hour a day.
Mm-hmm I consistently like, you know, like right now, you know, before we started, you know, I always take the opportunity to take a picture to post on my story. You know, or some video for later or whatever the case is, because I do think that, you know, patients really like to see what you're doing every single day.
And I. When I originally kind of hired people to manage it. Now I manage it myself. Mm-hmm you know, someday I think I might revisit that again, but I've just had such poor experiences with people that have managed my social media. It's just, it's not authentic. It's not me. It's just a whole hot mess.
But. You know, I think that, you know, one of the things that they've always said is that they don't, that patients only want to see like the practice and what you're doing in the practice. And I don't think that's true at all. I think patients want to know that, you know, I have a family life. They want to know that I have friends.
They want to know that I, you know, go on vacation every once in a while. They want to know that I'm engaging with my colleagues, you know, such as you, they want to know that you know, I'm at the meetings front and center, you know, learning all the new technology and hearing about all the things that they want to have done to themselves.
And so I think that that. You know, it's, it's different than what originally social media started as, and I think it's evolved into this, you know, kind of reality series of your, their own, you know, patients come in and they're like, oh, I feel like I know you because you know, I, I follow you on Instagram and I've seen you talk on Instagram and you know, oh, I've seen you and your son on Instagram and stuff like that.
And I think that, that, like you said, kind of brings up personal approach. Right. And whatever. Means you connect with your patient, you know, that can open the door for them to be comfortable with you and say, listen, I've got this area that I hate. Can I show it to you? You know, this is what I don't like about myself, you know?
Cause like you said, that is a very personal conversation, you know, it's, it's how you feel about yourself. It's how you feel about how you look. Right. So I think that, you know, to have that kind of introduction of, you know, like, you know, a very friendly, warm introduction that you kind of get insight. And I think that, I hope that when patients do, you know, look me up on social media and they Google me and all that, I hope they do read the reviews because I do think when I look at some of my colleagues that have.
Everyone's going to have one or two bad reviews, for sure. It's that's normal. Everyone's going to have an exceptional review. Everyone's going to have a poor one, you know, but on average I would say most of the reviews are pretty right on wouldn't you agree?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm and so, and I would, and I would listen to them.
We know some of them are Looney birds, but a lot of times there's truth in what they're saying I really would take them seriously. And the ones that are the nut jobs, it's fine. Like you, you can almost tell like when they're rambling. Yeah. But, But most of the time they're trying to tell you something, you know, I, I, I would, I would listen.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Great. So one of the things that my colleagues always asked, they would say, how do you, are you ever afraid that patients feel like you're upselling them? You know, when they're in the practice. Cause you know, you're like you came in for one syringe and you're a hot mess. Like we've got to, like, you know, do break this up in stages and all that.
And then a lot of my reviews is, you know, Kind of honesty is the best policy. And you know, if you're, if you're one of those people that, you know, you think you're going to tell Dr. Barbera what she's going to do, you got your, you got that wrong. You know, I, I think that, you know, again, just like a high price hairdresser, I'm not going to go in and say, you know, I'm, I'm a medium, dark brown, not a black.
And I don't like it to be, you know, I think that's their job, you know, that's what they studied. You know, this is what we studied. And so I want to tell them, I want them to tell me what bothers them, but I'm going to tell them what I'm going to use, how I'm going to treat it and kind of give them, you know, a couple options.
But if they don't like my options, I'm probably not their doctor. Right. So, you know, I think that patients, when they do read the reviews and they do understand that, you know, I am going to kind of go through a whole gamut. I only do it. The first consult, the, the first consultation, I kind of feel. I want to kind of run through all the things that are going to make them look more rejuvenated and more youthful, you know?
Cause then we've discussed everything just because on top of everything, patients sometimes don't know what they need. Right. And sometimes they don't know what you can treat.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I, as a patient, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, I've often I heard them say it all the time. What do I need? Like I want to look better. What would you recommend? I mean, that's the perfect segue into, let me tell you all the things I would do to get you where you want to.
You know. Yeah. I've see nothing wrong with that.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah. So that's why, that's why. And, you know, and I say, like I said, let's, you know, whether we do something today, tomorrow next extra never let's make a plan for the future, you know? And, you know I, I like to call it a Barbarino buffet cause you know, I want them to kind of pick and choose and tell me what ideas that they liked, because I understand that, you know, maybe their temples, aren't a concern and maybe we'll table that for another day.
But I do think that's one of the biggest things that can rejuvenate the upper part of the face and the entire face in general. So, you know, when they, they get into more of a groove with me, then they understand. To kind of, let me kind of do my thing and, and, you know, as a surgeon, I think, or as a provider, that's I think the biggest honor is when my, my staff always complains, because they're always like, well, we don't, we just don't some people we just don't know, even know how much time to give you, because we don't know what they're going to get done.
They don't know what they're going to get done. You know, they just, they, they know they're coming me and this is their budget. And, you know, they want you to tell them what they're going to do. And, you know, that's, I think the most fun patient. And I think that's where I hit the best results because they kind of let me do my thing and show them what I can bring them, like the nose thing.
I mean, obviously most patients don't come in and they're like, sign me up for that crazy nose thing that looks like it's painful and it looks crazy. And that's what I want, you know, but some patients they're like, you know, I know I don't want a nose job, but I do. It does bother me about how. This area is on my face.
Is there anything we can do that doesn't have a ton of downtime, you know, and you know, the next thing you know, I'm in there, you know, with my cannula, giving them you know thread rhino. So, you know, I think threads and a lot of the newer things and modalities that I do. I think that as a surgeon, I kind of held back a lot of that.
Initially when I moved to Austin, because I was like, I don't, you know, I'm a surgeon I want to operate. And in LA I'm more known as a surgeon. And I think when, like you said, Austin, you know, people, don't, some don't even dye their hair here. I mean, it is a very natural place. Some patients are never going to make it there.
They're never going to want surgery. They're never going to have surgery. So I think that's when I really started exploring those you know, non-invasive options that I thought were really important for me to adapt.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So we're going to wrap it up now on with these topics covering your practices in LA and Austin, but tell me, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, how did you learn. Where where's your drive coming from?
Did you have great mentors? That sounds like your mom might have been helpful to that. Like where's this drive because I have to tell you, I thought I was everywhere.
You are everywhere. Like you are at all the conferences and you're an industry thought leader and innovator at your practices in LA and Austin.
You're a speaker and you write the papers and, and, and you're in two offices.
And then on top of that, you have a husband and a child. And I think, how are you doing this time? Time tips or time management tips.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I, I do so part of me, I, I do feel so. Blessed and honored that I would get asked to do these podcasts with, you know, people like you. I feel like it's such an awesome honor and blessing to be asked to go to these meetings.
So I feel like I don't want to turn that down because I do enjoy that. I, I, I love it. And I do, I do love what we do. So you know, that part is easy. Being spread thin at work is easy. it is not hard at all, but you know, when it does come to, you know, being I mean I think tonight we're having a play date, so I'm consolidating all the people that I've wanted to have a play date with for like the last two weeks into one night.
So it's going to be like a really big play date. So, you know, obviously time management is an issue, but I think that if you're really focused on whatever you're doing at that one moment of time, Then you can do it really well. So if I'm speaking to you, I'm really focused on speaking to you. You know, then when we get off, I'm going to be in play, play date mode, I'm going to get the house ready for the play date, you know?
And then, you know, when I go to the conference, I'm fully focused and engaged in that conference or when I'm in a room with a patient or if I'm in the operating room, you know? So I think that what people do wrong when they multitask is I feel like they try to do everything all the same time. So when you try to do everything all at the same time, that's when you forget this and that and this and that.
But if you're like, okay, I'm now in the operating room, what do I need to get done? And then, okay, now I'm out of the operating room now, what am I doing? You know, right now I'm talking, you know, to Catherine on, on a podcast, you know, this is what I'm focused on, you know? So I think that that's why you can do everything really well.
If you just focus on that one moment, whatever you're doing. Does that help? Yeah. Well, you're, you're crushing it. So keep doing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And my last question Dr. Sheila Barbarino is, or it's not a question, it's your request. Tell us something that we don't know about you and it's not anywhere on Instagram and something that doesnβt have anything to do with the cities of LA or Austin.
Sheila Barbarino, MD: Oh, my gosh, that's a hard one to come up with out of nowhere.
I'm sure you guys can gather this from Instagram. I have fear of missing out and I never want to miss out on anything. So I think that that gives me a lot of energy. So when I wake up in the morning, I feel like I don't want to sleep all day because I don't want to miss out on something. Awesome. And so, you know, I think I've been really blessed to be surround myself with really good people and good friends and colleagues and patients that have supported me and like I don't want to miss out.
Like I want to, I want to have, you know, an amazing practice. I want to have, you know, a practice in LA in Austin and I don't want to miss out on seeing my patients, you know, grow up in LA. So I don't want to give that up because I love them and I don't want to miss out on being here in Austin. So like I said, I, I think.
Is obvious, but I also, you know have other interests besides medicine. I like to write papers, like you said. And I think it's easy to kind of incorporate all the things that, you know, we, we like into our practice. Like I always joke around that. If I wasn't going to be a plastic surgeon, I probably would've been makeup artist.
Cause I really love makeup. And I feel like that's basically kind of what we do. Right. A super overpriced makeover. Right. right. it lasts longer. Yeah. It lasts a little longer and it it's, you cannot wear makeup or wear makeup and still a great, so that's, you know, I think that, I think that transformative bit of what people like about makeup is the same kind of thing that we like about plastic surgery and injectables and noninvasive, you know, it's that extra elevation of looking.
You know, prettier feeling prettier being more confident. And so I think that, you know, when I, I do my makeup or when I do somebody's face, I kind of take that element to everything.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm so would you please give us your website in case anybody wants to get a hold of you to discuss your innovative techniques at your practices in LA and Austin? What would that be? Please?
Come in. www.BarbarinoSurgicalArts.com. I'll be waiting for you and please follow me @BarbarinoSurgicalArts on Instagram and Facebook. I would love to see you guys there. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. You are awesome. Like I said, you're one of those people that growing up in the industry, I'm always like, oh my gosh, I need to learn everything that she has to say.
Cause you're amazing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and how Sheila Barbarino has made a name for herself at her her practices in LA and Austin.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βPractices in LA and Austin. How? - with Sheila Barbarino, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#interstatepractices #sheilabarbarino #femaleplasticsurgeon #threadrhino
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to win over cosmetic patients.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βHow to Win Over Cosmetic Patientsβ.
Thereβs nothing easy about working with the consumer cosmetic patient. Every one of them has their own background and story. They have different thoughts, beliefs, and perspectives. That makes it difficult for you to assess and understand them well enough to get to a YES at the consultation.
But there are plenty of strategies to help youβ¦.
This Beauty and the Biz Podcast episode is called,
βHow to Win Over Cosmetic Patientsβ
I talk about what prospective cosmetic patients need from you to make the decision to move forward.
Implementing these strategies will increase your conversion rates.
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
How to win over cosmetic patients
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to win over cosmetic patients.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley. author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. Now today's episode is called How to win over cosmetic patients. So the cosmetic patient today has a lot of choice in service providers as well as technical solutions to their problem.
So they often go on several consultations before deciding how to move forward. now while you may see that as unnecessary, since you're as qualified or more so than your competitors, prospective patients do not. They want to do their due diligence since this is a big decision for them to make, since it's going to affect them physically, emotionally, and monetarily. It also effects how easily it is to win them over as cosmetic patients.
Actually think of it this way in regards to how to win over cosmetic patients. These are oftentimes your best patients. Since they're not deciding by price alone, they are taking in all sorts of other factors above and beyond price. That's where you can shine and beat out your competitors because here's the secret to positioning yourself as the best choice for preferred cosmetic.
You want to address their emotional, personal and logical needs when trying to win over cosmetic patients. So when done, right, you're checking off all their boxes in their decision making process. So here's what I mean. Let's start with the emotional needs of a cosmetic patient. They're looking for that surgeon, staff and practice. That makes them feel comfortable moving forward.
They feel comfortable when you've built rapport with them. So they feel a connection to you. Actually, rapport building is one of the most important skills you can develop to be successful today in aesthetic medicine, because this entire industry is built on feelings and is key to winning over cosmetic patients. Cosmetic patients are unhappy with their appearance, and that makes them feel less than and diss.
With themselves and their lives. Now they believe they're going to feel a lot better. They're going to feel a lot more confident and much more sure of themselves when they look better, but they also feel hesitation and fear, fear of spending the money, fear of pain and fear of regret. If they end up unhappy with their results.
So there's a lot of emotions to deal with. So building rapport helps them open up to you, share their feelings, and that's when you can help them navigate through this journey and in turn, helps you to win over these cosmetic patients. So here are three simple ways to build rapport. One is touch, be sure to shake hands with your patients, perhaps touch them appropriately when examining them and then touch them on the shoulder on the way out.
So they feel connected to. The rule is to keep it above the elbow. then there are commonalities. We like people who are like us. So search for commonalities, look on the patient intake form and comment on the patient who referred them or the neighborhood they live in or their occupation. You're going to learn so much.
Perhaps your kids go to the same school or maybe they're a social media influencer yet just never. then there's mirroring you want to mimic the patient's body language as well as their tone and speed of voice. So if they talk fast, you talk fast. If they talk loud, you talk loud. If they're shy, meek and quiet, you tone things down.
You also want to sit eye level with patients, so you're not towering over them. You want them comfortable not intimidated. Now, if the above is done correctly, patients are going to feel understood, heard, and respect. They will feel that connection to you because they feel like you understand them, their needs, their wants and their fears. This will help in winning over cosmetic patients.
Then there are the personal needs of cosmetic patients. Now it's fine to speak in generalities at the beginning, but now that you and the patient are better acquainted, it's time to be specific about this particular patient's desires and how you can help them get what they. And you do that by listening, ask an open-ended question.
Like what can I help you with? And then be quiet and let them tell you now that sounds easy enough, but it's so tempting to interrupt because you know, better, you've been through this before, but that's not the point. The patient who feels heard first will then be more open to hearing. And the more the patient can visualize their own specific results, the better.
So you want to start by showing the prospective patient's social proof of other patients. Now that would include before and after photos on an iPad, the patient can scroll through and videos explaining procedural FAQs and video testimonials from other happy. Now add in computer imaging. Patients love computer imaging in my book, something like 96% of them wanted it because they can see for themselves how they will look and that gives them more confidence and courage to move forward, which in-turn, helps you to win them over.
Now you may resist the time and expense that goes into this technology and fear. This will come back to haunt you, but that's typically not the case. Once you see it as a helpful converting tool and embrace. So will your prospective patients and your conversions will increase. Now another powerful strategy is to look the patient in the eye and reassure them by saying, Sarah, you are the perfect candidate for this procedure.
Now the patient will feel they're in good hands. That you're confident. They'll be happy with the result and that you have the experience and self-assurance to give them what they want. That transference of confidence is what encourages the patient to move forward. Lastly, there are logical needs. Now you've covered the prospective patient's emotional and personal needs and this is key on how you win over cosmetic patients.
So now logical needs must be addressed. There's a saying, that's very true. And it goes like this. We make decisions emotionally and then back them up logically. Right? Isn't that the truth? Think of all the times you bought. So. Because it made you feel a certain way, but then you had to justify spending the money to someone else or even to yourself.
So the same thing happens with cosmetic patients. This patient has already chosen you emotionally because you've built up trust and a connection with them. So they're ready to partner with you. However, there's a good chance the patient needs to justify why they chose you to their friends and. Who may be giving them flack. This is another possible roadblock on how to win over cosmetic patients.
Now don't leave this to chance. Give your patients logical proof. Why you're the best choice. So they're equipped to defend their decision, develop brag pieces to position you as the best choice. Now, examples would include. You're board certified and explain what that means. The number of years in practice, the number of surgeries you've performed, the number of reviews you have, the zero lawsuits.
You don't have awards and accolades from third parties that you've been given any pro bono work, showing that you care. About other people and then PR, or maybe you've worked with some really well known patients or celebrities and so on. So do you now see how you want to address the emotional, personal and logical needs of prospective patients?
So they choose you over your competitors, once youβve won over them as a cosmetic patient. Please get together with your team and talk about how you can better tap into these patient needs to increase your conversions and decrease, hearing the dreaded. I need to think about it.
Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and how to win over cosmetic patients.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βHow to Win Over Cosmetic Patientsβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#howtowinpatients #howtowincosmeticpatients #convertmoreconsults #convertmoreconsultations #howtoconvertmoreconsultations
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Bradford Bader, MD went from recon to retail surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βRecon to Retail Surgery - with Bradford Bader, MDβ.
A new surgeon coming out of fellowship will oftentimes do anything and everything to perform more surgery to hone their craft.
So, they do call at nearby hospitals, take recon cases referred by other surgeons, and/or contract with other practices to handle their overflow.
They need that experience to figure out what they really want to doβ¦.and NOT do.
Dr. Bradford Bader had been on his own journey and is now very satisfied with where he is going, but it wasnβt a straight line (it never is).
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast is the interview I did with Bradford Bader, MD, a facial plastic surgeon running his own private practice in Plano, TX.
He talks about his journey from 95% reconstructive to 95% aesthetic surgery and how he had to think and act to make that shift.
Dr. Bader also talked about:
- How important location is to be visible and accessible to the patients you want to attract
- How culture plays a big part in his success (now that he understands what that means)
- How his amazing shoe collection helps build his brand
- A radical new approach to building a practice with smaller staff and office but bigger profits and much moreβ¦.
I love hearing how the younger surgeons are making their way through the challenges of staffing, marketing and competing in todayβs marketplace and you will too.
Visit Dr. Bader's website at: www.BaderFacialPlastics.com
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Recon to Retail Surgery - with Bradford Bader, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Welcome everybody to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Bradford Bader, MD went from recon to retail surgery.
I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's guest is Dr. Brad Bader. He's a board-certified facial cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon running a private practice in Plano, TX. Now, before he went from recon to retail surgery, Dr. Bader attended medical school at the university of Texas Houston Medical School, where he presented the Eugene D. Jacobs award for outstanding scholastic achievement. And he was elected to the prestigious Alpha Omega Alpha honor society during his junior year.
Then he completed his residency of the university of Michigan and he's presented his research at international meetings and recognized with the Merle Lawrence Research Award and the Rontal Family Research Award. Now Dr. Bader completed his fellowship at The Ohio State University and he lectured and trained medical students and residents as a Clinical Associate Professor of Otolaryngology. He's happily married with three wonderful children.
And if you saw him, you wouldn't believe he has like teenage kids. Dr. Bayer, welcome to Beauty and the Biz it is a pleasure to have you.
Bradford Bader, MD: Thanks for having me on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So, let's just start with, just describe your practice and how did you end up in Plano and how did you go from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: So, Plano was a suburb just north of the Dallas Metro area.
And this is where I was born and raised, was in the Dallas area. So, it's, it's a good place to work and live. So, I, I kind of always had the idea that I returned back home eventually. I did by medical school, residency fellowship, just the way you described and like most people. Didn't have a great idea of exactly what I wanted to do.
Perhaps going to academics, perhaps private practice ended up starting a private practice in 2010 while I learned. I was solo from, from day one. That was a little scary, but We, we kind knew this is where we wanted to be in terms of the location. So, I felt comfortable taking a risk and starting to practice. Even if I got the initial iteration of my practice wrong, I knew I'd still be in an area that, that we enjoyed living.
So that's how we ended up back here. I started out with two employees. I shared some employeeβs expenses. Call responsibilities with an established ENT practice in town. And I was on staff at a hospital. I did call two weeks of, of every month. So, it was 11 one trauma center. So, I did pretty much everything and anything when I very first started my practice much of which was not at all what I do currently in my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But how did you ramp up, when you first hang out your shingle when you first started going from recon to retail surgery. You know, in the old days, it used to take like 10 years to develop a practice so it could live on its own in this market. And did you specialize in cosmetic right away? Was it recon? Like how did all that work when you were transitioning from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: So, no there was no strategy. I think that was a great mistake. I, I think it's hard to know exactly what you want when you first start out. A lot of people have an idea, maybe what they want their practice to be what they want to focus on.
And I think most of us are wrong. I think that as time goes on and your, your focus becomes a little clearer on what you want out of your practice. Now, your life things change. I think very few people. Have a practice today that has a whole lot of resemblance to the practice when they first started my practice, when they first started, I was doing everything from head and neck cancer, resections and reconstruction.
I did a lot of facial trauma. I did a lot of skin cancer reconstruction, facial reanimation, much more reconstructive focused practice. And out of that, I sort of at least had the financial stability. Because those cases were available to me to reinvest in the practice and start focusing a little bit more on aesthetics.
So, my first office was on the campus of a hospital. It was not a great location. It was not visible. The office was not at all focused towards aesthetics, both in, in the setting and just the strategy overall. And it wasn't until January of 18. When I opened my current practice, this is in a much better location.
The, the office is beautiful and we've really been focusing on aesthetics since that time. So early on in my career. Yeah. It, my practice looked totally different than it does today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I did notice that in your practice now it's beautiful and it shows that you know the ins and outs of going from recon to retail surgery. By the way, it looks like it's not in a hospital, but it looks like it's in a building, but much more like a consumer kind of strip mall kind of upscale kind of thing.
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah. We're in we're in a corridor called the Dallas north tollway, which. The major north, south artery through the Dallas Fort worth area. It's in an affluent area and we're in a mixed-use development. So right below me is a, is a Tex-Mex restaurant. Yeah. So yeah, you, you can smell as soon as they turn the kitchen on, it smells great.
But yeah, it's, it's a little bit of a, of a different setting compared to a traditional medical office building or a standalone medical. Office condominium. So, we've got shops, we've got restaurants there's apartments movie theaters. It's, it's a walkable neighborhood and it's right next to a major thorough, so different setting, but we're much more visible.
We've got a huge digital sign that faces. The toll way. And there's about 180,000 pairs of eyeballs that drive up and down that toll way every day. So, we're more visible, we're more accessible. And overall, it's just, it's a better setting for us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, when you did that, did it shift your, you know, recon versus cosmetic as you were transitioning from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: When we moved offices. Yes, we, we, we definitely, and then it's, it's been an evolution slowly I've dropped the things that no longer make sense financially. And, and it no longer interests me as much. Everything has an opportunity cost, and I really enjoy doing reconstructive. Facial injuries and, and facial cancers.
Those patients are incredibly appreciative and I learned so much from them and it was a huge part of my practice. But as time goes on, you realize your, your time is better spent pursuing higher pain procedures, which in our business tend to be the cash pay cosmetic procedures. So, we, we just recently stopped taking insurance entire.
The last six months. And, and I'll, I'll always be thankful for those early years and those patients, and, and I really got a lot of joy out of that practice. I, I miss it in some ways, but I've, I've moved in a different direction and I'm focusing more on the aesthetic part of our, our business now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, they've made it so darn difficult for you to make a living on recon.
I hear that all the time. I love the work, but I have a family and it's not just the opportunity cost of doing things that you want to do or not to do, but it's all the paperwork all the time. All the focus that goes into that, it's very difficult to toggle both. So out of a hundred percent, like how much of your practice is now cosmetic versus recon? How did this transition effect you when going from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: Oh, it's at the moment. It's probably 95% cosmetic. Wow. Okay. A year ago, it was more 75%. That's in terms of revenue. So, but in terms of focus in terms of hours, out of my day and, and man hours, in terms of what the staff was focused on, it was more like 50. So, it, it just doesn't make sense. You have to invest so much more to extract a dollar out of a reconstructive case compared to a cosmetic case.
You have to have higher, more staff billing company. You got to have time to, to sit on the phone with a, with a peer reviewer to get a, a patient's treatment plan approved, just a lot of headaches. And, and eventually you realize your, your time's not best. That way and you have to do what's best for the practice overall.
So, I think the general tendency, as, as, as our practice is mature, is to move towards things that better reflect our time and expertise and that those are the cash paying cosmetic patients who choose you and, and seek out what you could offer them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know what else I also noticed when the patient realizes you take insurance, that can cause all sorts of.
Negotiating things that happen because the patient says, oh, as long as you're going to take insurance, can you also, you know, fix the bump on my nose? And it becomes, you know, they're going back and forth between recon and cosmetic and just the, I mean, have you noticed that it can change the relationship with your preferred patient when they think they're going to hand you an insurance card?
And you're like, no, I also need a credit card too.
Bradford Bader, MD: yeah, I, I agree. I think that it can complicate the. The, the physician doctor relationship because there's a third party involved and that's the insurance company and they're the ones at the paycheck and patients in general, having a, a poor understanding of what their benefits are, what their responsibilities are and their insurance plans.
And I think insurance companies sort of, they like that. They like the, the ambiguity. They, they want patients to rely on them for these decisions. And it's just so much easier when I'm offering a service or a product and the patient has a need or desire. And that's where the power of price comes in.
And if they decide that that what I'm offering is worth it, that's what they pay. There's, there's no third party involved. And so, it's a simpler relationship. And I, I think we can understand each other quicker that way. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's talk about the services you offer now regarding surgical versus nonsurgical and how thatβs impacted your transition from recon to retail surgery.
I know you offer both. And have you found that you need the nonsurgical to get to the surgical or what's your philosophy on that? Are you trying to be like a, a one, a one solution kind of shop? One Saha, or would you rather just focus on the surgery and, and, and offer nonsurgical if you have to?
Bradford Bader, MD: We offer nonsurgical.
I, I have one esthetician in the office and she offers adjunctive procedures, ready, frequency microneedling, and non-ablative lasers, chemical peels, skin care. The patients really appreciate that. I think when I first. Started practice or, or really started focusing on aesthetics. I sort of bought into the philosophy or the, the idea that having these aesthetic services can bring in surgical patients.
And I, and I think that there's still some truth to that, but the scale of that was never impressive. I feel like most of my surgical patients actually come to me because that was their initial interest. So, they find me through other channels. So, so bringing patients in for a HydraFacial you know, it, it didn't really expand our patient base relative to the cost involved and in providing those services.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a jump, it's a jump to go from HydraFacial to rhino β Especially when also trying to juggle switching from recon to retail surgery.
Bradford Bader, MD: I think the, the other non-surgical part of the practice is the injectable practice. And I think that there's no question in the injectable practice, Botox and filler it can definitely augment that the income in the short term, but also help grow your, your, your patient population.
Overall, there are plenty of patients that initially saw me for, or lip filler and, and Botox or something very simple. They're very happy. With that. And then eventually they graduated to a surgical procedure. So, I, I found the, the growing the patient population a little bit truer in, in terms of offering nonsurgical injectable services rather than the aesthetic services.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then regarding staff, do you, you set anesthetic institution. Who else is on board? And are you pretty much the main, obviously, the main revenue generator, but is the esthetician bringing in anything or is it just a nice thing to have, or is it difficult to manage when going from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: Maybe all the above. So yeah, we have a total of four patients.
I'm sorry. Four employees that are full time and then we have two part-time employees. My institution is really the orientation, only the institution on days when I'm in the operating room. So, if I'm the way at the surgery center on Tuesdays, for example, she stacks her patients on those days. And, and we have some patients that really love her and the services she provides.
And, and overall, I guess it's a net positive to the, to the practice. On the other days, though, she's kind of my, my closest assistant she's in all the patient interactions with me. She sees the post-op patient. She talks to she she's kind of the primary source for patients after they've had surgery for questions or concerns.
So, she has a lot of value. Beyond just those Tuesdays when she can bring in some revenue. We have, we have two staff up front, which answer phones. I communicate with patients via a text, which is what we find most patients prefer these days scheduling, rescheduling, those sorts of things. We have a patient care coordinator and she works full time on obviously chasing down leads and, and.
Being in consults with me and, and, and closing those leads. And then we have somebody who helps with in office surgery procedures. She's one of our part-time employees. And then we have another part-time employee who's getting ready to go out on maternity leave. So, so the moment with four full time and then the two parttime.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, any challenges there, any pearls of how you fire hire, motivate to support your quest on learning how to go from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah, I think our, our biggest challenge at my practice last several years was staffed. And it really, it took me a long time, longer than it should have to realize what, what the problem was. And it was, it was a problem with culture. So, I recently actually had to let my manager go because ultimately, I found that that.
The reason for the culture or large part was it started with her. And I, I did do a great job of recognizing the problem, fortunately I was able to, to recently turn it around and I've got some very little staff that, that kept me apprised of what was happening, things I was missing. And, and at the moment, we've, we've got a very solid staff that I'm very proud of and happy with.
Yeah, I think, I think creating the culture is super important. We all talk about it. I think it's, it's harder to, to actually do and practice. One of the things that I recently heard, which, which I love in terms of culture started from the top is, you know, if the doctor sneezes, the staff feels a hurricane, right?
So, any emotion I'm having is amplified and, and the patient, I'm sorry, the staff feel. Maybe in a different way than I attend. So, so I feel like if I'm not having a great day, the, the staff can perceive that some things that were totally unattended. So, I, I've just got to be very careful with, with, with my mood and my emotions and, and that can.
They can trickle down really quickly and create a, not so happy atmosphere. So, I, the things that I found useful giving praise super important constructive criticism and, and positive feedback were always welcome. I like to give random MOs not necessarily scheduled or, or tied to some specific A financial outcome, but just feel like you're doing a great job.
Here's a little, little more money on your check this this week. I like to educate; I like them to understand what it is that I'm thinking. And it helps them feel a little more confident when they're interacting with patients as well. I find delegating appropriate tasks empowering them to solve problems.
Everyone wants to feel important. Everyone wants to. I like to part of the team that they're trusted. And so as much as I can, I like to, to delegate tests and ask them to achieve things. And then when they do give the appropriate praise, so the staff want to be part of the winning team. You need to share the success.
And when there's failure, everyone used to understand the lessons and, and move on from it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the missing link I often see between recon patients retail surgery patients. The surgeon and the staff is...The surgeon doesn't realize all arrows point to him. And however, you are feeling that is so true, that statement, however, you are feeling it's magnified by them because they're watching your every move and you're setting the tone and then meeting with them regularly.
I find that a lot of surgeons have said, oh no, I've given everyone their tasks. They all know what they're supposed to do, but then they're not checking up on them. And that's when things can go sideways. Like money walking out the door because you think certain things are happening that are not, and you always find out in the worst ways, you know, it's always like what, you know, dear.
So, I would just say communicating with the staff regularly, reminding them what your standards are and your expectations and how you envision this practice to grow and run so you can go from recon to retail surgery as issue-free as possible. And they've got to all understand where you're trying to go. And I just find a lot of times the surgeons are not, I don't, maybe the surgeons aren't even clear on their own, you know, I donβt know what, you know, maybe they donβt know what, but boy staff, staff will you have to take the full responsibility for staff during the transition from recon to retail surgery.
You hired them, you trained them or didn't you manage them or didn't, and there's nothing easy about it.
Bradford Bader, MD: No question. I mean, I don't duck responsibility for, for example, the, the, the staff turnover that we've had recently, I'm, I'm a hundred percent responsible for. Whatever happens in the, in the practice?
But yeah, I think, I think what she said is correct that sometimes the surgeon or, or the, the lead physician doesn't have a clear vision of, of what the practice should be or, or what he, or she wants the practice to be. And, and my feeling is it I've been doing this since, since 2010. And I only recently understood, I think.
What I want out of my practice and what I really want to focus on. And, and that's helped a lot because once you understand what you're trying to achieve, then creating a plan, creating a path becomes a lot easier. It's very easy to say, well, I just want to grow all things in all directions.
And for so long, that was, that was my focus. You know, I. I want to buy this laser. I want to hire this injector. I want to create this skincare line. I want to open this location. And, and I think that model works for obviously a lot of patient surgeons, physicians. Who've been extremely successful. But there's a lot of different ways to, to achieve what you want.
And, and I've really kind of distilled down what I want, my, what I want my practice to be just really in the last year or so. What we're trying to do is, is not necessarily grow. We're actually trying to get a little smaller, more focused create a core competency and really compete More on a national, even an international level.
That's, that's kind of the direction we're going right now. So, so at the moment I'm really focusing on rhinoplasty. I feel like that's our core competency. That's what I really enjoy. It's what I think that I do best. And so, we're, we're really structuring the practice around that idea. We want to be sort of a destination location for patients seeking rhino.
Catherine Maley, MBA: By the way on your website, you have rhinoplasty revision, rhinoplasty and preservation, rhinoplasty or something. What is that and has it helped on going from recon to retail surgery?
Bradford Bader, MD: So, I mean, the reason for the, for the website is as you know, SEO and, and the website guys like to create a lot of words. and that's how the search bots find you. Right? So, but yeah, the rhinoplasty is kind of what we think of as traditional rhinoplasty revision.
Rhinoplasty is for patients that are happy with the rhinoplasty. Preservation rhinoplasty is a, is a newer concept that is kind of all the rage right now. I, you know, when COVID happened, we all had a lot of time. And, and one of the things that I did is, is I was really looking for something new in, in, in wild what's out there.
What have I never heard of seen before? Let, let's try something totally different if I can find it. And I started reading and consuming all of these newer techniques coming out of Turkey. Gotcha. So, Turkey is sort of the, the world capital rhinoplasty and these surgeons they they're incredible the amount of volume they do.
They'll do five to 800 rhinoplasty is a year. That's most than the average American surgeon does in his entire career. Right. So incredible amount of volume and, and they learn things very quickly because when you're doing that many surgeries, you pick up on things. So, preservation around plasticity is the idea of, instead of, for example, you have a bump on your nose and you're to shave it down.
That's kind of the traditional technique. They're using techniques to actually create room below the bridge of the nose and sink the whole nose down. Mm-hmm so it theoretically is less destructive. It requires. Less dissection, faster healing, potentially better results. So, I got really into that. And I actually traveled to Turkey in February of this year.
So just recently and I really wanted to see what these guys were doing because the results were, were almost unbelievable. The things they could do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I actually I used to live in Turkey (Istanbul) for one year and I would say, oh, nine out of 10 of them needed a rhinoplasty. yeah, that is the perfect culture.
They all, like, they all are very similar bone structure and noses are very prominent there and Iβm sure there are many recon and retail surgery patients when it comes to rhinoplasties.
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah. Yeah. It's the kind of the classic Mediterranean knows, right. The practices I visited there was, there was there were two municipal and one in Natalia, which is a coastal city. And it's really interesting, Catherine.
They have actually, they're, they're basically destination practices. They actually don't operate on Turks. They only operate on foreigners. Mm-hmm. So, they recruit these patients from all over. I was there for a week and I met at least one patient from every comment and they, it, it was really eye-opening because these, these guys they're phenomenal surgeons just very nice people, very open.
Educated me in, in a lot of different ways. They have small staff; they have one or two room offices. Their staff were mainly hired for their, for their language skills. Hmm. So, they, they would have
you know, somebody who spoke German, Russian and French. And her job is to sit around all day and wait for the Instagram and WhatsApp messages to come in from patients who prefer those languages. That's how they get theirs, and these patients travel from all of the world to I, or their population is similar to runty S or two most run plastic practices.
It's by and large young females. So you, you would meet these 20 year old females from, from London or Columbia or Singapore or Australia. And they would travel alone to a country they've never been to, or they don't know anyone. They don't speak the language and they've, they've literally got a bag full of cash, because that's the only.
Payment they'll accept. And they're going to stay in, in Turkey for 7, 10, 14 days. And you might ask, well, why are they doing that? Why don't they? I mean, surely there, there are surgeons back home. They can do these procedures. The is it's, it's all about the result. And that's what really opened my eyes.
These guys are, are doing the surgery and achieving results at such a high level that they can literally attract patients from across the globe. Because these patients see something on Instagram, that's what they want. They maybe have consults with local surgeons and, and they just don't perceive the results being we're close.
So I think it was just a really interesting, interesting model.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And, but are they charging less for rhino than we are here in the states? They have to be some doing that since they have a lot of recon and retail surgery patients over there.
Bradford Bader, MD: Some do. Some charge, much more. And, and I, I think they're always struggling a little bit with demand and, and their pricing, because the idea of traveling overseas makes sense if you're going to save money, but yeah, a little bit of a, of a harder decision, if, if the expenses equivalent or even more than what you could pay at home mm-hmm
So I think is for every one patient that actually goes and has their surgery there. There's probably 10 others, at least that are highly motivated and want to have a rhinoplasty, but for whatever reason, they're not going to travel to Turkey. Right. It's just too far. It's too, whatever it might be. So my ideas is if I can somehow achieve similar results and market in the same way and capture.
Some of those patients that are out there that are looking for these, these kind elite level results. If, if I can somehow tap into that that's kind of moment.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, making that very difficult for you to do. Because everything's gotten, you know, so geographical, like you have to, you know, they, if I'm sitting in Sausalito, they want to give me a rhino guy in Sausalito, you know, I how, like, do you have a strategy for that and how to find more recon and retail surgery patients globally?
Will they show you to the world?
Bradford Bader, MD: So In Google, I don't know. And in reality, we we've, we've invested a lot in Google AdWords and, and SEO optimization and the results have been disappointing. And I think that you're right, it mostly delivers local patients. And there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to expand your market, if you want to be visible to patients beyond your market, but are willing perhaps to travel I think Instagram's a better option.
Being able to. But harness their algorithm because they know who's scrolling through and looking at ins at rhinoplasty pages and results and who they follow and what they click on, what they interact with. In my, you know, novice mind, I feel like Instagram gives us an opportunity to market to these patients that are looking for rhinoplasty.
No matter where they are and whether it's ads or using hashtags, or there's a different strategies we use. There's, there's just a lot more chatter.
I that, to where really never seems to be much of a change, no matter what we spent or how we spent.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well with Instagram, you know, it's a floating platform to get more retail surgery patients, you know, you never know what's going to happen. I always suggest. That you somehow have a mechanism set up, you offer some kind of lead magnet or some kind of special report to then get them to a landing page to give you their name, their cell phone, their female.
So at least you own that because overnight you got, you've seen that. Well, you're doing face, but the body guys are getting kicked off left and right, which makes it tough when trying to transition from recon to retail surgery.
Bradford Bader, MD: You know, and I got a post taken down of a nose for nudity. It's a nose. Why. Who knows. I mean, it's not humans making these decisions, computer algorithms, and they make mistakes, but good luck ever talking to a, to a human to correct it, but you're right.
It's, it's you know, it's, it's their pool and they can kick us out whenever they want. So it's, it's little bit dangerous to, to really focus on the one channel.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know how I'm looking at it? Currently, Instagram social media leads. I call them inquiries because they're so far out of their mindset, their geography, their reality in helping surgeons get more recon and more retail surgery patients.
They're just inquiries right now. so I, I'm always trying to figure out for my clients how to automate that part and then get humans involved. When they're more serious and then you have to decide, well, what is that fence that they had to jump over to get serious when it comes to recon and retail surgery. And, you know, whether it be like the opt-in, if they were willing to give you their contact information, maybe they're more serious.
So like, for example, I would say you want, you want to know the prices now? Sure. I just need your, I just need your contact information. So at least I have a, a chance of nurturing them or, or finding out if they're at all, really in the market or do some kind of a quiz, you know, some fun quiz, like, you know and, and ask that question to single out recon and retail surgery patients.
When are you thinking about having this done? Because if they're just fool around, that's the problem with rhinoplasties? Not a problem C. Rhinoplasty is already typically the younger person typically, (which are the preferred patient for that procedure), and they have no idea what they're doing. They don't know how much these things cost or what's involved. But they like the pictures so you know, do you spend a lot of time educating?
I saw your Instagram just showing great photos and yours. Very cute. So you can tell who you're trying to market to and find recon and retail surgery patients. Talking about marketing, I was going to ask you about that, but you've pretty much answered it in terms of recon and retail surgery patients and how to find them. It's very difficult to be a facial plastic surgeon. Have those two roads. One is the younger rhinoplasty patient and the other is the more mature facial rejuvenation patient.
And she sees you ONAC and that completely turns her off. And the rhino patients see you, you know, lean well, blah, blah, blah. And maybe that turns them off. So how are it the way you're going to handle it is basically you're going to pick one Arenβt you. You're going with the rhino.
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah. I, I think that, that, that's where I'd like to go.
I agree is focused on the rhinoplasty. I think that there's just you you're right. It's two different markets entirely. Not all the different from when I first started in my practice where, you know, half my waiting room was, was reconstructive patients who had big bandages on their face. They were having the worst day of their life.
And then sitting next to the patient who just wants acute nose or is finally ready for that facelift. So yeah, I think, I think being an expert is difficult in a field that's fairly broad. And I, and I think the, the, the certain who, who do bodied plastics probably have the same type of problems.
There's different between the, the 20 something breast dog, patient versus the mommy make. They're a little different, a little different stage of life. So I think being presenting yourself, marketing yourself as an expert in all things face, all things, body is, is easier than you know, trying to be two people at once in, in terms of your personality.
I, I try to be authentic. Yeah. Sometimes I feel silly and I'll, and I'll do something ONT talk and we can laugh about it. Right. But I'm also a surgeon. I'm, I'm a professional and I can sit down and have a very serious conversation about somebody's surgical options. And it doesn't feel fake or, or, or out of the norm for me, I, I think I can handle both, but in terms of what gets me up, what really excites me what I enjoy doing.
I, I, I think going in a, in a rhinoplasty direction just makes sense for me right now in my practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the riches are in the niches when it comes to finding recon and retail surgery patients. By the way, how many shoes do you own? I would say that's part of your branding. I think every time I think of you, I think my God, he has a lot of shoes and they're all amazing.
And you also have a very interesting Suit. So you're, you're quite a dresser. So has that helped a lot with attention in finding more recon and retail surgery patients?
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah, I, I think so. I mean, I think it, it's just a way to express myself a little bit. I like clothes. I like shoes. I think it's Again, you don't want to be somebody you're not, I think that that can be very insincere people, patients will see through that.
But yeah, I, I get plenty of patients that, that first thing I do when I walk in the room. Let me see what shoes you have. Yeah. Cause they know me and they know that that that's kind one of my interests. Yeah, it it's, I think being sincere. In terms of social media marketing and, and who you want to be, or, or what party personality you want to portray.
It's, it's got to be authentic. And I think people who struggle with social media and find it a chore, all find it a chore. But if you're doing things that, that
you wouldn't ordinarily do in your everyday routine, Then it feels like a chore. Okay. But picking out a, a, a fun pair of shoes or, or shopping for a silly suit, like doesn't seem out of the norm for me, that's just kind of who I am. So when, when I do it and capture on social media, I think it, it feels authentic.
And patients connect with that for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you have a very good blend of the real you with the shoes and then the surgeon, you and I love, love, love. I. More surgeons would do it. You know, when you're showing the photo where you have a, a guy, a kid he's, I don't know, 20 years old. And he hasn't had a straight nose in 13 years.
He could barely talk because he was so choked up with his result. You show that kind of emotional video. Well, you've got me, you know, and I, I like all the mothers out there who have kids who are, you know, so, you know, they're, they have no confidence. They just, their self-image is shot. Because of the darn nose.
I mean, that's transformational and please show more of that because that's what you're doing. You're changing lives while finding recon and retail surgery patients. One knows at a time, you know?
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah. I, patients rhino in don't recognize that lifechanging moment that it can be a life changing moment for a patient. I have over the years had plenty of patients that look like a whole new person when I saw them in between. Their surgery and maybe their three or six month following visit it wasn't because of knows difference, felt different.
Mm-hmm maybe at the pre I met you know, a woman who didn't really do her hair, makeup didn't care. She wore kind of looked down, never smiled. Maybe she's working. Part-time not really going to school. And she brought the loser boyfriend with her. OK. Mm-hmm then I see that same patient back at six months, the only thing that's changed, you know, to her physical appearance is her nose and she loves it and she's got her hair out.
She's done her makeup. She's got a cute outfit on, she dumped the loser boyfriend. She's going to school now. I mean, it really can send your life in a different trajectory really entirely. And I think people who don't have this problem right in the middle of their face, like these do they don't never understand that.
But I think being able to connect with those patients and offer them hopefully a way to change the path of their life. That's what I find. So, so rewarding. You know, and, and yeah, I love those moments. Absolutely. They're. They're fantastic. They're the reason that you want to get up and do it again the next day.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? So Instagram is probably your primary marketing channel on finding recon and retail surgery patients. Are there any others, are you involved in real self or you two having your own channel? You know, I saw you also on TikTok, which I think you need to be if you're going after rhino. But do you have a marketing plan?
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah. I mean, talk's mostly for fun.
I wouldn't say we have a marketing effort there who knows. I think that'll change in the future. Instagram is, is our primary focus. We still have some money in Google AdWords an SEO optimization. I mentioned the video board that faces the road outside the office building. You get a ton of people that, that say, oh, I saw your picture.
Just at least they see your brand. And maybe they have to drive up and down the, the road for six months before they decide to call. But it's just a, it's another channel. I'm trying to think what else we might do. Oh, we did RealSelf for a while. I dropped that. I, I just didn't find it. Didn't find it useful.
I put a lot of effort in it, but just much so we, we kind of moved on from that. Oh, we have YouTube channel. Yeah. We So, I don't know. I got this idea of I guess it's not unique, but, but I started analyzing like celebrity noses, right? So we, we put out a bunch of YouTube videos. I haven't done one in a while, but it's called Dr.
Bader knows Hollywood. So I. Phoenix. That is perfect. And I would do a little more so I could, you know, I'd say, well, here's what Tom cruise or, or Bella Hadid would look like if, if here she came to me for round class, here's what I would offer.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So that's a great idea on how to find recon and retail surgery patients. Would you can tell, did, did you get a lot of likes or all? huh?
Bradford Bader, MD: You know, we got a lot of interest. I'll say that. And. That was really my first experience Catherine with how ugly people can be online. Because for example, you know I mentioned Bella Hadid. So I, I did a video on her, on her nose. And by far I got the most number of views and comments and a lot of them were, were sort of hateful, you know, and, oh my God, what did you do to her?
That's a. It's a terrible, you botched her, you just for, for me analyzing her nose and offering how I would change it. And, and it wasn't in a, I didn't, I don't think I did it in a mean way. I said, look, here's what I see wrong with Bell's nose. If she came to me as a patient, here are the things I would tell her that if we could improve upon and, and here's how it would fuck.
And there were so many patients. Or people out there I think are just really big fans of, of Bella Hadid, who didn't like my thoughts at all. So I've been a little shy to kind of reach out again to, to make some more of those. Mostly take a lot of time. There's a lot of video editing and, and you know about that there there's just so only so many hours in the day.
But yeah, it was fairly popular and I, and I use it mostly as an educational tool because there are plenty of patients that will sit at home or people lay people to sit at home and say, well, there's nothing wrong. With Courtney Kardashian's nose and, and I'll do a video kind of explaining from, from a rhinoplasty surgeon's perspective, the many things that I see wrong with her nose and, and, and she's had a rhinoplasty, so I can kind of go through her, her before and her after picks and the areas that maybe could still be improved upon.
So it was, it was not like a celebrity show where I'm saying, oh, her outfit's terrible. Or, you know, it wasn't that You know that wasn't the point of, yeah, it was really just education. It was it's here. Here's what it knows. You know, Matt Damon, he's just his nose is, is, is very interesting. It's, it's, it's almost feminine.
So I kind of pointed that out. You know, here's, what's unique about Matt Damon's nose and why it looks a little different on him than most male noses that you see. So it was.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you want my 2 cents, I say, keep doing it because the more you create user generated content with all those users commenting and that's what Google wants.
So you, your name and rhinoplasty keep coming together and keep doing it to find more recon and retail surgery patients.
Bradford Bader, MD: All right. We'll, we'll think of that. Yeah, we got to, we got to come up with it. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, nowadays you can't just be the surgeon and the manager and the leader and the visionary, but you've got to be the marketer to find more recon and retail surgery patients. So how many days, or how many hours a day would you say you're spending on Instagram or YouTube?
Bradford Bader, MD: Gosh that's really hard to say. I'd say anywhere from one to two hours a day, if I edit it all up, And it can vary. I mean, I can, I can go several days without putting any sort of marketing effort towards, towards the. I'm sorry, or towards the Instagram page. But it always seems like we're interacting with Instagram, somehow answering direct messages and responding to comments, those, those sorts of things.
Cause we want our followers to, to know we're engaged and reachable right. It's a challenge. Just like any others. And if we don't respond to inquiries, then they'll stop coming.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I mean, would you say most of your preferred patient business is coming from Instagram and, and are you able to track.
Bradford Bader, MD: Yes, I'd say the vast majority of our new patients find us in some sort of fashion via Instagram.
Nice. You know, and, and since we've started to focus on the rhinoplasty and we've started to Market our posts and, and our, and our style pictures and everything. The, the way, you know, this in this new style and effort about half of our consults are from patients out of town. Okay. So, you know, we're reaching a much larger audience than we were.
Previously, we've got patients coming from Hawaii, Chicago, North Carolina, Florida, New York, all over, really. And, and that's pretty new. I mean, I would maybe get one or two out of town, patients and years pass, but now about half of, of our, our new consults or out of town patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Are you doing open or closed with your recon and retail surgery patients?
Bradford Bader, MD: Right. So I do both. At the moment we're doing mostly open okay. With the preservation technique I was doing mostly closed. Okay. But that's yeah, that can, that can vary at the moment. I'm in a open mostly. Yeah. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then do you do computer imaging to further help you find and keep recon and retail surgery patients?
Bradford Bader, MD: We do always. Yeah. I find that that's probably the most powerful tool to communicate with the patient mm-hmm and I donβt know how I did concepts about it.
I really. I, I, patient, I always take photos and then I put it into a very simple imaging more software mm-hmm and I'll show them kind of the side view, the front view, and then the underneath you the base view. And there's so it's, it's so informative for me and for the patient, because.
We speak a different language when it comes to rhinoplasty, right? Patients will use certain terms that did, honestly, they're really hard for me to interpret as a surgeon because I'm used to using very technical terms, right? So when somebody says my nose is hooked or there's a bump, or it's very hard for me to interpret what that means.
Look, if I take a photo and I'll change something, then. That's it exactly. Well, now we're on the same page. And I can with their input, create something that is, you know, our, our 10 out of 10 result that we're, we're hoping to achieve.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm and then are you also doing virtual consultations to reach out to recon and retail surgery patients?
Bradford Bader, MD: We do, we do virtual consultations.
The majority of our town patients choose to have a virtual for their first consultation. So yeah, we, they, through our, through our EMR, we can have video chats and a hip safe way and they can upload their photos and I can morph them and send them back to, so it's, it's actually a pretty efficient way to do a, at least a round plastic console.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, are you letting anybody do a virtual to get even more recon and retail surgery patients, or do they have to. So many miles away from the office.
Bradford Bader, MD: Anybody can do a virtual, if that's their request.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, Dr. Bader, are you finding the close rate is better or worse virtually versus in person? How does that effect finding recon and retail surgery patients?
Bradford Bader, MD: Boy, I'm not sure I've looked at that specifically, Catherine. I really can't answer. I mean, I think that the patients who are out of town. And, and are willing to pay a consultation fee and, and have a virtual call. They're probably a little further down the road to making that final decision. So it, it might be that their conversion rate is higher, but I donβt know that for certain.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So give me one big mistake you've made so far during your journey on finding recon and retail surgery patients. You've been at this for 12 years. You know, they always say the smartest people don't make mistakes. They, they learn from everyone. Else's what's, what's gimme.
Bradford Bader, MD: Just one?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, a doozy.
Bradford Bader, MD: Gosh, I've made so many, it's hard. It's hard to, but I. I guess really from the beginning, not having a good idea, a vision plan.
I was, I was just kind of putting one foot in front of the other, trying to get to the next day, the next week, the next month with no grand vision. And I think that's really hard. At least it was for me to, to understand what it, what it was I wanted my practice to be, especially when you're just starting out.
And, you know, you're, you're worried about like paying the next rent, right? It's really hard to say, okay, this, this is where I'm going to go. I'm going to, so I think it as, as early as, as you can, when you're starting your practice is I know it sounds silly, but you know, kind of come up with, with a, with a goal, a.
Some endpoint something to achieve and it could even be just for that month or that year or 10 years. I don't know. But I never really sat down and had a goal, had a vision, had a, had a strategic plan. And I think that was perhaps my biggest mistake and, and it delayed. Me kind of progressing to the type of practice that I am now.
Probably because I just didn't have a roadmap of what I wanted, how to get there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if it's any consolation, I think you're ahead of the game on figuring out how to find recon and retail surgery patients, because most surgeons... There isn't a well thought out plan. The plan was to get through medical school and residency and fellowship, and then open their own practice and figure out this business and marketing because by the way, in today's were you trained on any of that?
Did you get any education on the business and marketing side of surgery.
Bradford Bader, MD: So I have an undergrad degree in finance, so, oh, nice. Yeah. I've got some book knowledge, right? Know what income statement is? You teach myself accounting software made sense to during fellowship. The, the little things that helped me along at least in private practice is one of my duties was to figure out all the coding for every surgery I was involved.
right. So there's nothing I received in residency. And I, I literally just had to, you know, start from scratch and, and teach myself. But it was a really valuable skill because. I could start in private practice from day one. I was very comfortable with coding things properly for insurance procedures.
For a while I would, I would give a course at our big national meeting every year on just how to code. Wow. You get paid and it's not hard. And you could absolutely do it. Don't have to hire somebody and pay 50,000 a year. You just, you know, takes 30 minutes out of each day. So I, I feel like I did have a little bit more education, both in formal undergrad education, but also in fellowship.
And maybe I was a little bit better prepared than the average surgeon just starting out.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And then what skills do you think you need in today's world to find more recon and retail surgery patients? Like, are, is there anything you're learning now that you didn't think you would've had
Bradford Bader, MD: to learn? Social media for sure. Right. I mean, back when I started, it was, you know, all your marketing dollars need to go on your website, right.
Just website, website, website, and, and searching and optimization. And that's still part of it. But You know, having a beautiful before and after gallery on your website was, was the pinnacle. Right? And now I'm not sure how many people actually search for those truthfully, at least in the rhinoplasty world, they go to your Instagram page.
They they're going to, they're going to scroll through your feed. They're going to look at your noses and they're going to figure out in a hurry. If, if you are, were their kind of style. So learning Instagram. And I feel like I was a late adopter. We didn't really harness Instagram and all of its power till probably the last three or four years, honestly.
So yeah, and, and I'm no expert by any means and it's always changing, but I feel like the moment we found a way to connect with our patients and. Engagement. And, and we've really shifted our focus from quantity to quality in terms of our content. I'd much rather have one or two really solid posts a week than, you know, eight to 10 that everyone just scrolls right past and, and doesn't hold anyone's interest.
So we really focus on, on generating something. That's going to catch eyes more than. Pushing out as much content as possible.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So with this new clarity on reaching and finding recon and retail surgery patients that you have, which I love you know, focusing on the out town rhinoplasty patient does that change. Any of your other strategy as in the office you are in, is it near the airport?
Is there an nice hotel nearby? Are, are there nursing services that can take care of them? Like, are you thinking about that?
Bradford Bader, MD: Absolutely. We, and it's a work in progress. Yeah. We want to be able to help our patients through every step of way. Centrally located kind of in the middle of the country. And there's, there's two major airports, so we're pretty accessible.
It, where we live is, is a, a fairly dense area. So there are plenty of options in terms of hotels and Airbnbβs and BBOs, and, and we want to create sort of a slate of different options. Everything from you know, cheap as can be to. You know, the penthouse at this very nice hotel and everything in between.
So we're, we're, we're cultivating that now. And it's, it's an area of focus for us is, is creating a seamless experience for our out of town patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great because I had a, a client who was very high end and charged of fortune. Yet you had to stay at like the residence in or something. I just thought what a disconnect, like, I mean, where's the Ritz or like at least give me a Marta or something.
And I, I would just be cognizant of that to get more recon and retail surgery patients, you know, like, absolutely.
Bradford Bader, MD:. Yeah. We want to create an elevated experience for right from beginning to end.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So any last comments, any words to wisdom for anybody else coming up or wanting to learn why they need to find recon and retail surgery patients?
Bradford Bader, MD: No. I mean, you know what, we're all learning. We're all just trying to get a little better every day.
I don't, I don't want to give the impression that I've all got it figured out and I don't nobody does, but I think it's important to Learn as much as you can. And, and I've always loved your podcast. I've always learned so much the people you interview, your, your words of wisdom and just the lessons that all of your guests have, have brought.
I learned so much and hopefully I I've taught somebody out there something today. But just beyond that read as much as you can interact with as many colleagues as you can, it's so much easier to connect with people nowadays. It used to be, you'd see everyone maybe once a year at a meeting.
And it was really hard to, to extract very much information, but now there's, there's Facebook groups. There's, there's telegram and WhatsApp groups and, and it's so easy to, to text a colleague, call whatever, be to use all of them. The knowledge out there that's available to you and, and reach out to new contacts and, and interact with those people as well.
So I think you asked me about mistakes. I think that was a mistake of mine is, is sort of just put my head down and trying to figure it out all on my own instead of exploiting some of the, the, you know, the mentors and colleagues and, and their successes and failures and applying them to my practice.
So don't feel alone out there. Everyone is, is trying to get a little better of those learning use your assets, use your resources and it'll help you along.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Good words of wisdom. Congratulations on your growth. And I, I, I'm looking forward to watching you grow more.
So if somebody did want to get, you know, reach out to you in regards to how to find recon and retail surgery patients, is it www.BaderFacialPlastics.com?.
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah, www.BaderFacialPlastics.com. The Instagram is the same @BaderFacialPlastics. Yeah. If, if, if of course I'd love to hear from anyone out there that has any questions or words of wisdom or, or wanted my input on anything. Absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much, Dr. Bader on this great talk on why and how to find and get recon and retail surgery patients. I hope to see you again in a meeting coming up soon.
Bradford Bader, MD: Yeah, I'll see you. Same again soon, Catherine. Nice. Nice to see.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and how to find recon and retail surgery patients with Dr. Bader.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βRecon to Retail Surgery - with Bradford Bader, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#howtosucceedatretailsurgery #bradfordbadermd #drbradfordbader #recontoretailsurgery
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the 8 traits of best run practices. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called β8 Traits of Best Run Practicesβ.
How often do you feel the pressure to lower your prices or negotiate with new prospective patients?
Cosmetic patients today are so price-focused; it can drive you crazy.
Iβm sure you get several calls every week from prospective patients asking that one thing:
βHow much is β¦?β
Or, during their consultation, they attempt to negotiate with you and your staff by telling you they can get the same thing cheaper elsewhere (even though you know youβre more experienced and skilled than most competitors).
On the one hand, you want to be fairly compensated for your skills, expertise and the years youβve put into building your practice and great reputation.
But, on the other hand, you don't want to lose to your discounting competitors.
Itβs so frustrating to have to decide how to deal with these price-shoppers, isnβt it?
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast changes the conversation altogether, so price rarely comes up.
Discover how surgeons who garner the best run practices think to rise above the βprice chatterβ
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
8 Traits of Best Run Practices
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now today's episode is called β8 Traits of Best Run Practicesβ.
Now the best part of being a consultant to plastic surgeons for the past 22 years is getting to see all the different ways there are to build an online. Build a brand, surround yourself with staff who support you, strategize your marketing plan to attract new patients and on and on. But there's nothing easy about it from the outside, but itβs imperative to implement these 8 traits of best run practices.
It can look like a practice is super busy and running smoothly. However, it can be chaos internally. That's why this saying is so apropo: βNever judge your insides by someone else's outsidesβ. Boy, is that the truth? When you can, what you can do is learn from others who did figure it out. So the following is a list of eight traits of best run practices.
The best run practices have these traits. So this is a really good place to start. trait. Number one, the surgeon has a growth mindset, all arrows point to the surgeon who owns the practice, the best have a vision for where they wanna go and they have the drive to get there. Now they've got a growth mindset, which means they're open to growing as a person, as a surgeon and as a leader, they think an abundance versus lack, and they see the opportunities in both good and bad things that happen along the journey.
They're also very passionate and a whole lot competitive about growing their practice and they strive to better their best. That means they stay open to new technologies, new marketing trends and new surgical techniques that give them the competitive edge. Now, in order to stay relevant, they learn new skills such as leadership, managing people, business and marketing that keeps them evolving and adaptable to the constant change happening around. These are the key traits on having a successful and best-run practice.
Now here's trait number two: The surgeon treats their staff well in the best run practices, staff is seen as an asset rather than a liability or an overhead expense. The surgeon knows they can't do this alone. They understand their team is actually their practice building secret weapon. So they make this part of their practice, a priority.
Now the team supports them because the surgeon has built a culture of shared values and regularly talks to their team about their vision. So they have clarity. However, they're also not afraid to hire slow and fire fast. If someone does not fit into their culture. So the surgeon is even tempered and treats everyone with respect, which is vital to having a best-run practice.
He or she sets the standards for how they expect their team to act with the patients and with each other. So they themselves role model good behavior that increases their team's respect for them. Now staff need acknowledgement and recognition. So the surgeon pays them well, offers them complimentary cosmetic services.
So their team looks the part and schedules fun time to thank their team for their support. Now that can include bagel breakfast. Or a taco truck shows up for lunch or dinner out now here's trait. Number three, the surgeon and team meet regularly. Now most practices are so busy. They barely have time to eat.
Let alone meet. However. The best run practices find the time because they know if they spend a little time up front, they save a ton of time in costly mistakes, week processes, staff turnover, and a toxic environment. So they meet with their team regularly and get their feedback from the front lines because they're listening for ways to improve and they're open to change.
If it's good for the good of the best run practice and not just for one individual. Now they keep the addend agenda short and sweet. Now here's an easy agenda. First, just celebrate your win. Then the surgeon repeats the vision and expectations. Then they review key numbers that make the biggest impact. Then they talk about what's not working and the solutions to fix it.
Then they brainstorm growth ideas. And then they recap the to-do list from the meeting and document who does what, by, when they're able to let go of control and micromanaging. They trust the people around them since they took the time to hire right train. Right. And then hold the staff accountable, especially with these meeting.
Now here's trait number four, the best run practice spends money to make money they're frugal with their time, not their money because they understand money buys them time. So they recognize the opportunity costs of doing things that should have been outsourced, such as learning SEO and writing your own web copy.
They know they can't shrink their way to success. So rather than focus on saving money, they focus on making. Yes, they do cut expenses that are no longer necessary, but they know the real way to wealth is to focus on assets, revenue, and income. They see marketing and excellent staff as an investment to grow their practice to be as best-running as it can be.
For example, They know, it's a whole lot smarter to give their a player, a raise when they ask for one than to cheap out and lose them, then spend weeks or months finding someone to replace them or having to hire two cheaper people to replace them, train them, and then hope they fit in and they get it.
They see it ended up costing them so much more in the long run and just not worth. Now they also give back, they donate to worthy causes because it gives their staff the why they do what they do and a common purpose for the whole team. And frankly, it makes everyone feel good. So the surgeon knows the philanthropic efforts are also good for not only team building, but also for social media content and then great PR.
here's trait number five. They think patients for life rather than one, and done the best run practices. Think quality over quantity. They don't play the numbers game by spending a fortune on advertising and then having their staff waste time, triaging these weak inquiries to find the few gym. Who are actually serious about moving forward.
So they would rather serve less people. They like working with and who'll help them grow their practice organically with word of mouth referrals. Now these best-run practices see their patients as friends and family and treat them with respect while focusing on excellent patient relations. Now they understand that these happy patients can be patients who return again and again, while also referring their.
Writing five star reviews, sharing their story through social media, approving their before and after photos and making video testimonials. They know it's far easier to keep these profitable patients coming back. So they offer comprehensive services to include all stages of life for the cosmetic patient.
They attract more sophisticated patients who care more about their relationship than saving a dollar. So they do not cater to the price sensitive, who don't value, skill and expertise as much as saving money. Now here's trait number six, the surgeon knows their numbers. Surgeons with the best run practices, manage their money rather than abdicate their responsibility.
They take full responsibility. For knowing what's happening financially in their best run practice. So they have a bookkeeper and an accountant do the work, but they review the numbers regularly. So their team knows they're watching the numbers and this helps avoid any unwelcome surprises. They watch their expenses and they know their return on investment on each surgical and nonsurgical procedure.
For example, before buying an expensive laser, they consider the consumer demand for the service, the supply, and how many nearby competitors offer the same service, the price point to keep it profitable. The time it will take to pay it off and the advertising budget, it will take to reach their goals on having a best run practice.
This helps prevent that laser from becoming a coat hanger. Like I hear constantly now here's trait number seven. the surgeon has a standard for excellence. Now these surgeons are regularly honing their craft to make them the best at what they do. They stay curious by visiting other best run practices, attending conferences, and talking with their colleagues to learn what others are doing.
That's working. So rather than being a no, all they ask questions and then listen to. They get outside help to discover what they don't know that is holding them back. Now, these best run practices also find the time to be extraordinary, otherwise known as extraordinary. And that means they do what others won't don't or can't.
So for example, they reply to leads within minutes versus hours or gaze their phone is answered by a friendly human being within three. they text patients when they're running late, so they don't have to wait and, or they include a rapid recovery plan with surgery for less downtime and on, and. and when a challenge comes up, they focus on solutions rather than running from it and hoping it just disappears and goes away.
They also delegate tasks. They dislike doing to people they trust, but they also follow up to be sure it's getting done and they have very little tolerance for practice drags, such as draining staff and difficult patients. And then lastly, treat number eight, the best run practices. Have surgeons who think big, the surgeons of best run practices are competitive by nature and use that for motivation to grow.
However, they also grow uncomfortable being the only revenue generator in the practice. So they look for ways to leverage their assets such as their patient list, reputation, experience, and staff. Now, these surgeons figure out how to scale by working on their practice rather than in it. They see they could do more than just surgery.
So they look at other streams of income rather than working harder and longer. Which leads to burnout and ineffectiveness. So ultimately they spend more time finding, managing, and mentoring key players in their best run practice who become the major revenue generators. So the surgeon can focus more on the business side, such as fine tuning their processes, as well as adding more surgeons and injectors, laser tax and location.
so to recap, the eight traits of best run practices, they are a surgeon has a growth mindset. They treat their staff. Well, the team meets regularly. They spend money to make money. They think patients for life, they know their numbers. They have a standard of excellence and they think big. So there you have it.
The eight traits are the best run practices. Now this should give you lots of food for thought, as you create your own romance success.
Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and the 8 traits of best run practices. Please do me a favor and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the β8 Traits of Best Run Practicesβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#traitsofsuccessfulpractices #successfulcosmeticsurgeon #successfulcosmeticsurgerypractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to get booked out 9 months and more. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βBooked Out 9 Months - with Carlos Mata, MDβ.
Carlos Mata, MD is a board-certified plastic surgeon in Scottsdale, AZ (surrounded by 160 competitors) who figured it out early and has accomplished a lot in only 5 years:
- 28 Staff
- 1 Associate
- 580K Instagram Followers
- Performed more than 20K surgical procedures
- Does surgery EVERY day
- Booked out 9 months
- Moving from 7K to 17K square foot new facility
How the heck did he do it?
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interview a very unusual plastic surgeon who has done in 5 years what takes others to do in 20, if at all.
Listen carefully for how his mindset affects the actions he takes to create this money-making machine.
Visit Dr. Mata's website at: www.NaturalResultsAZ.com
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Over a Half-Million Instagram Followers and Booked Out 9 Months β with Carlos Mata, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello And welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to get booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and profits. And I have a very special guest today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's Dr. Carlos Mata. He's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Scottsdale Arizona. Now he's performed over 20,000 surgical procedures and he specializes in facial rejuvenation, breast and body procedures, as well as hair transplants, and male enhancement.
Now, Dr. Mata is originally from Erie, Pennsylvania, and he received his training at the university of Texas medical branch St. Joseph medical center and MD Anderson cancer center in Houston. Texas as well as Harvard's Bringham and women's hospital in Boston, Massachusetts.
Now, while performing thousands of procedures at these institutions, Dr. Mata also trained in Miami, Florida, focusing on aesthetic surgery with the world's leading experts.
Now Dr. Mata's a member of many medical associations, and he's received numerous awards for his research and published works. Dr. Mata also believes very much in giving back. So, every year he goes on medical mission trips in third-world countries to help those in need. Dr. Mata, I want to welcome you to Beauty and the Biz.
It's a pleasure to have you. I know you are extremely busy, so thanks for your time.
Carlos Mata, MD: No happy to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks. So do me a favor just quickly. Give us a, a quick journey of how you got from, let's say fellowship to private practice and how youβre booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. Did you stop along the way into other practices or just go out on your own? Or, what was the story?
Carlos Mata, MD: I wish it was that short on how I get booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers It was kind of challenging because I had actually graduated and I went straight into the military as a US Army plastics and reconstructive surgeon. That was in 2011. So literally I graduated and I think a week later I was at boot camp learning how to be a soldier.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That explains how you got to thousands of surgical procedures so quickly, because you look too young to have that many and that, that explains it. I'm sure you got incredible experience of the military that helps you stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers, right?
Carlos Mata, MD: I did. I mean serving in the military for the years that I did and just basically I was the only plastic surgeon.
I covered Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida. So, within a month of me starting, when I was done with my... Basic, you know, training as a soldier, I was booked out for nine months, but it took more time to get to over a half-million Instagram followers. So, you know, it, it was, it was very humbling experience. Let alone eye opening to have all of this volume of patience to take care of.
So yeah, I mean, it, it was good. I mean, after that, I was like, gosh, I feel like I'm way older than I am from the perspective of seeing all kinds of stuff after that, then I move lighted in Miami, Florida. Doing aesthetics, you know, when I took some days off from the military. And then I ended up going to join somebody in Chandler, Arizona.
So basically, the Phoenix Metro area, they were a cosmetic surgeon from that standpoint. So, our Ideas of certain aspects, didn't always mesh. So, I ended up going out on my own and I've had my office now for five years and three months solo practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh. Yeah, I actually have family in Chandler, Arizona. I know the area.
Well. So, you're on, you're in solo practice. I donβt know how you've done it to get booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers, but you are extremely busy. How, how booked out are you?
Carlos Mata, MD: I operate five days a week, sometimes six occasional Saturdays. My first opening is February of next year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, good job. So of course, I'm, I'm dying to hear the secrets of how you did it so quickly, and especially how you get booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers.
So, we like to talk about the business side of plastic surgery first. So, are you doing this all on your own or did you, like, how did you set up your practice? Are there other extenders in there? What's that, what's the board with you?
Carlos Mata, MD: So, when I first started my office in February of 2017 my daughter had just been born a one-month-old.
I didn't have a job and were like, all right, I guess I got to do it like everyone else and figure it out on my own. I had a PCC; I had an office manager and had a medical assistant and that was it. And the office manager helped function as, you know, a receptionist slash ma slash whatever the circumstances were.
I was very fortunate because it's not just one thing. That I think helped bring about how busy I am from that perspective. It was just a culmination of a lot of things done being at the right time at the right place. I started social media in 2015 when I first got here in the Chandler area, going by Dr.
Scottsdale, just as a hashtag, not realizing the power of what it was. And it wasn't until like 20 16, 20 17 that I was like, Hey, I'm going to do this social media thing. I conferred with Dr. Miami. And then I just kept doing social media. And for me, the crazy part is when I got nobody was really doing social media.
Like for example, in Beverly Hills or LA or Chicago, Miami, every social media had already kind of exploded there where it hadn't in this, you know, top six Metro area that I was kind of the first, so to speak, to, to kind of grow with it. And I. Try to do things the right way. And I try to find niches where, you know, there's over 160 board certified plastic surgeons.
And I don't worry about what specials they have or what they're doing because 40 to 50% of my patients literally come from out of state. So, I, my market is not competing with the Phoenix Metro area. All over the place and that culmination.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you, are you in Scottsdale or Phoenix where youβre booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: No, I'm in Scottsdale, but I keep talking about the Phoenix Metro area.
Because that included, Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, you know, everything. Okay. All right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And half of them are coming from out of state. I find that very interesting. It must be coming from social media since you have over a half-million Instagram followers and booked out 9 months because you're, if you're Scottsdale give you Scottsdale, are you? I that's you're right.
Carlos Mata, MD: Yes and no. And I think part of it is, you know, you're talking about like geotargeting or geolocations when you. Do PPC, right? You're putting it on, on your website and you're like, Hey, I'm I want an ad to show for a facelift or for light or for a brush dog.
And of course, Google's job is to get people locally to see you because. That's how it works. I mean, could you sit here and say, Hey, I want to market to New York that I want to do breast dogs from patients in New York. Sure. You could do that, but it would cost you an exorbitant amount of money because those patients Google's trying to get them to be local.
So that it's a useful information, not marketing somebody who's halfway across the us. To say, Hey, do you want this person? Because they're, they're advertising with us. You would have to pay a premium dollar because your bounce rate would be so high. Because somebody's like, I'm looking for New York breast dogs and you're in Scottsdale.
They'd be like, no, that's not right. And you would bounce. So, you're. Your cost per click would be exorbitant. And to answer your question, how do we do it? It's the website. It's the social media. It's you know that we talk about cost before the patient ever walks in the door. I mean, all these factors, I would say, if you were to examine my office compared to other peoples, you're like it's.
How fast backwards. I don't even know if I could say that, but it's a total reverse of what most people do. I give them the price before they even walk in the door. There is no stick.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I was going to say from, from a patient's perspective everyone should go to his website. It has, of course the sexy girl, you know, laying on the floor, which I've never understood, but it's, it's very visually stimulating and must help you stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers.
And the first thing it says. Get your quote or something like that. And I thought, wow. So, because sometimes I worry about that, because then it's all about the money. But in your case, what, what is your psychology there? Why would you start with the money conversation first?
Carlos Mata, MD: Again, this, this might sound harsh, but.
Lamborghini doesn't advertise on TV. Why? Because their clientele is not watching TV for me from the standpoint, I never considered myself a Walmart, even though when I started, I always say, this is funny. I would charge 4,000 for a breast dog. Nobody wanted them. I would see a patient and be like, oh, I'll think about it.
Now I charge between eight, 9,000 for a brush dog, and they're paying money in advance of actually having a consultation with me, or even seeing me to secure a date now versus before, when it was $4,000, nobody was interested. The psychology is really simple in the sense that you know, what you're walking into.
I don't have the availability to sit here and to do 20 consultations in a day too, for somebody to decide, Hey, I want you to do my surgery. Probably half of the patients, if not more like 60, 70% of the patients have already decided that I'm the surgeon before even having a conversation with me. So, this is different than most surgeons where, Hey, come on in, let's meet me.
Let's talk to you. If you like me, then we'll do surgery. For me, it doesn't work that way. And that's why I say my practice is kind of reversed and it goes to the price because I don't want to talk to somebody when you're like, oh my gosh, the army makeover could be 20 to $60,000. And they're like, yeah, that's out of my price range.
And for me to sit here and to have an hour-long consultation, or even 30 minutes would be not beneficial to the patient or to myself. So, we have full price transparency. It's the ballpark. Is it exact? No, but you have an idea. If you're walking in to buy a Lamborghini, you know, it's not going to be $50,000, you know, it's going to be upwards of six figures plus.
So, you know, when you walk in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But how the bigger question is, how did you position yourself to be the Lamborghini? You've done something you didn't just do it on your website and say, here's a big price and everyone went, oh, he must be excellent. He must be the best. If he's charging this. There's typically more to it than that.
So, what else are you doing to brand yourself at that high ticket item and who are you catering to? I mean, what are your demographics to keep you booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers? Cause you are all over the place. You have services for everybody. And that's interesting as well, because you're doing all of the male services, the female services, hair transplant all the lasers.
I mean, you have. Big boat of technology there and services. So how are you segmenting all that out?
Carlos Mata, MD: Part? Part of the logistics is I get bored. I couldn't do the same thing every day. So, some people are like, oh, I'm guy or I'm body guy, or I do breast and body and other like, oh, I just do bored. I like to do a little bit of everything, you know?
And again, they say Jack of all trades master of none am. Great at one particular thing, I'd probably say I do a good job. Almost everything that I do. Thereβre certain things where I'm like, probably not the best doctor for you for this, but I, I like the diversity. So how do you position yourself? Well, as I mentioned, I started with, you know, three or four employees and now we're at 28.
Employees part of how do you position yourself is I started small and every year I grew the practice. And by that, I mean, like, yes, I took the bare minimum of what I needed to survive for me and my family and the rest got thrown back into the business either, you know, trying mail ads or PPC or, or whatever it was to, to get clients in the door.
And every time I had a patient. It was me. It wasn't, Hey, you're going to see my nurse for a follow up. It's still that way today. If you're paying a premium for a Lamborghini, you expect the customer service to be second to none. And that's what it was at the beginning. And that's what it is now for follow ups.
It's not like, Hey, I operate maybe ICU once. And that's it. When I operate on somebody, they have a follow up with me for the rest of their lives. You know, that's something I learned from you from that standpoint, because I bought that book behind you probably 12 years ago or 10 years ago, whenever it came out at one of the meetings and I read it and the, you know, the lifetime value of a cosmetic patient, you can only get a patient one of two ways, either it brand new or you stole from somebody else.
That's it, those are the only two ways to acquire a patient. Right. And so, for me, it was just trying to do the right thing and do good work. And, you know, it sounds so cliche, but a happy patient will talk to someone else and be like, Hey, who did your work? And then word of mouth helped. And then. For me when I feel the explosion kind of happened was probably a year after I started doing social media.
And I grew little by little by little, and that's not just Instagram, that's Snapchat. That's TikTok. Now that was a little bit of Facebook. I really don't do Facebook. It was YouTube. All these little pieces just kept adding, you know, fuel to the. Until all of a sudden, you're like, Hey, wow, there's a fire.
And I don't have to work as hard, the key. And I guess the secret sauce that everybody wants to know, like, how do you do this? It's called your effort. Meaning I don't have a company that runs my social media. I don't, yes. I have staff that help me, but it's me. Meaning, I am the person on my phone answering DMS or answering responses.
It's me. It's not a company it's and most doctors don't want to do that. And unless you're willing to put the time and effort into it yourself, it doesn't matter who you hire. Like I have a full-time employee that does that all the time. It's not you. And I've been very fortunate to hire very good staff that it helped me grow and it kind of became part of their baby.
This, this, this growth that we've had. So, the secret sauce is the.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I want to put this in perspective. He's not kidding about doing his own social media since heβs booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. You need to go check out. I'm sure. It's probably called Dr. Scottsdale, right? Yeah. Dr. Scottsdale. He's doing his own social. You can tell because he's in it, he's involved.
He he's in the videos and. He has more followers than any other surgeon. I know. And I know surgeons all over the world, he's got 580,000 followers. That should tell you something. Now just be, be Frank. How much of your time is spent doing this? Because I don't know how the heck, you're doing this and seeing all the patients personally, because you're absolutely right.
You could have the happiest patient until you dis them at the posts, and then they're going to hate you because you ignored them and your fellow or your nurse. So, but how much time spent on social?
Carlos Mata, MD: Again, at the beginning, it was a lot, I would probably say three to four hours a day when I first started. And again, I wasn't as busy, so I had more time. The busier I've become now we have three, maybe four staff members that are just dedicated to the social media aspect of, of what we do in the office.
Whether it's filming, whether it's putting our stories together, whether it's posting to YouTube, whether it's updating our website. The two things I tell my staff all the time that I'm a stickler for are pictures. Meaning we take good before and after pictures. Cause I like things to be standardized.
I'm not the, the social media person that sits here and puts, you know, a patient in a certain position for them to look a certain way. If we take a before picture that way, we take an after picture that way. So, it's actually comparable instead of like, here, let's wear this swimsuit, do we put pictures like that up?
Yes, but I, I also have their before and after, so it's standardized and it's not optical illusions or lighting or this or that. And now I probably spend maybe 30 minutes to an hour a day, maybe.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, good for you with being booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers.
Carlos Mata, MD: So, so it's not a lot. Yeah, but it was a lot at the beginning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm regarding the photos to help get you booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers, too many surgeons are still saying, oh, my patients are so private.
They would never share on social. Just. I, I want to keep dispelling that because it's not true. How are you getting photos? Because you can't say your patients won't, but somebody else's patients will. So how are you doing it?
Carlos Mata, MD: Part of this is I, I don't necessarily disagree with the surgeons that patients are private, but that's the client tell you're if you're attracting a very private patient, because you're not really on social media.
Well, don't expect that private patient. To go on social media. If my patients are coming from social media, they're, that's how they found me. So, I always have an honest discussion and I'm like, my job is to educate, you know, and I know I I'm promoting the office and myself, but the job is to educate is 40%, 50% of my off my office in terms of what I do surgically is revision surgery, meaning they've had surgery somewhere else.
And they're unhappy whether it's been six months, five years, whatever it is. And revision surgery, a lot of surgeons don't do. And I mentioned earlier that I tried to find a niche where other people there's maybe three people in town, four people that did revisions other than their own. They were like, oh, you have surgery.
No, we don't do that. And now I was like, well, I'm starting. I don't, I'm not that busy. So, you know, I was in the military. I've taken care of. God knows what? So, I was like, it can't be harder than what I did before. So, I was like, I can make it better. Is it going to be perfect? No, but then as I started doing social media and, and the occasional patient that would let me post, they were like, okay, great.
At the beginning I offered a discount like, Hey, you know, we can offset some cost of whatever, or we add a service. If you let us film and post you and you know, everybody, you know, there's a give and take so to speak. You know, and now I, I haven't done that in probably four years of social media people ask like, oh, my friend got a discount, you know, to post.
And he's like, we haven't done that in a while. And again, I don't force anyone ever to, to sit here and to get on social media and allow me to film them or to post them. But most people do, most people want to see their surgery or want to see their results. Because again, after surgery you're going to be swollen.
You're going to be. But if they look at themselves and they're like, oh my God, that's me. I look this good. So, I know when I'm all healed, this is what I'm going to look like. So, it's advantageous for you to have the ability to film and show them like, Hey, this is really what you're going to look like when you're done.
Look, this is, this is on. So just wait for that recovery. And you here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you ask them yourself or do you have the staff ask them? Does it help you stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: I don't ask them anymore. I used to at the beginning now. It's kind of our system. And I would probably say maybe one to 5% of patients that I operate on, say, no, I don't want to be on social media.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. That's about right. And so, and, but the 1% that do, or the one out of four, who do give you a very nice Instagram presence. You know, I mean, you don't need everybody, you just need a good, a good group that absolutely loves you. And you have such good user generated content. Your, your patients are very interactive with you.
Whatever you're doing, some kind of persona you have, they like to interact with you. And that's a gift. I don't know. I don't know. How did you all, were you always like this? Cause you, when I met you, you're the quietest guy I think I've met. And I met you at a conference and you were so quiet and I thought, how has he become this Instagram genius able to stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
You know? So maybe do you have a, another persona?
Carlos Mata, MD: Is that the point? No, not at all. You know, when I go to meetings, I'm very conservative, very reserved, meaning because it's business. I mean, there's, there's nothing. It's work, you know, but how I am on social media is how I am to my staff, to everybody that I know if I don't know you, I'm like, Hey, how's it going?
I'm nice to meet you. I don't say, Hey, I'm Dr. Scottsdale, how's it going? Hey, you want to be on my social media? Like, no, the personas exactly the same, how I am on social media is how I am in person. But part of that is, you know, You get busier you're I guess you're you call it your self-confidence just grows as you grow, you know, as a surgeon, you do your first case.
You're nervous. You do your thousands case, you don't even think about it anymore. And you know, my wife always makes fun of me. Like, as I started doing social media, because it was different to literally get on your phone and record yourself that you're like, I, I go back and I look at it and I kind of laugh because yeah.
Was like timid. Sure. And then at some point I'm like, The people that are going to watch are the people that are going to watch, whether you're a goofball or whether you're, whatever it is, you still got to be you at the end of the day, it's not about, and I know some people will have a different persona on social media than they are in person.
I think that's too hard for me from that standpoint that I don't know how to turn it on and turn it off that I just said, I'm just going to be me, whatever that is. And eventually as I did it enough, that was me. And that's what it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Has it been helpful? Like I'm looking at the demographics of Arizona, but then you said you have a lot of how helpful is it for you to be bilingual in Arizona and does that help you stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
And, and what demographic are you going after or who seems to be attracted to you?
Carlos Mata, MD: I think the demographics is probably like 30% Caucasian, 30% Hispanic. And. Maybe 10, 15% African American and then a hodgepodge of whatever's left from that standpoint. I don't sit here and market to specific demographics.
I know like would like, you know, little marrying if they see a Hispanic doctor, but that's the thing. I don't really talk Spanish on my social media. I'm not sitting here having conversations. Do I occasionally talk to some of my Spanish patients in Spanish when I'm doing social media? Yes. And the patients will be like, oh my God, I didn't even know you spoke Spanish.
So, it's not like they're coming to me because I speak Spanish. They're like, holy moly. That's an addition to them deciding that they want to see me anyways, that they're like, oh,
you know, better that he speaks Spanish. So, the demographics is all over. And I know it's, it seems so hard, but I really don't spend that much money per se, on, on marketing. Because again, it's the fuel till the fire's already been there and it's just light burning and it just keeps burning from that standpoint.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, are you working with any other marketing channels other than social to stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: We do a little bit of TV. I mean, I did bring on another surgeon, which is crazy to think that in year four of my practice, I was like, I need help. Yeah. So, I brought on a, a, a junior, you know, associate that's, you know, it's more of a tier structure where maybe he's a BMW and I'm the Lambo in terms of expenses.
Because again, a lot of people don't want to wait 6, 7, 8 months for a surgeon. You know, but my patients do. And, and I think that's part of the difference. And I think people need to understand. Everyone's like no patient is going to wait for a brand. People wait, whatever it is that they're willing to wait for a brand they're not willing to wait for a common situation.
Like if you want a hamburger, you're not going to wait to buy a hamburger. But if it's special kind of hamburger, you'll sit here and put a reservation and wait two, three weeks to get that special Hamburg. Apple. If you're waiting for a phone, you're going to wait for that phone to come out before you're going to get it because you're waiting for the apple brand.
You're not waiting for a phone when you create a brand that allows you to not mess with the other stuff, not worry about the cost or the time or this or that. So that's what I would say is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What's smarter about that is you actually have a tiered pricing system, which may be a reason why youβre booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. So, they wanted the Lamborghini until they found out how much it was.
And now here's plan B. At least you're not leaving empty handed and, and neither are they because they were so deflated thinking, oh no, but if I can get somebody close to that for a fairer price in their minds that's how to do it. You don't let anyone go away. You just give them what they want. Put in a different.
So, congratulations. All right. So, you have an associate is the plan to make him a partner or cause that can get a little complicated. What, what is your plan to grow this thing even more? I mean, do you have plans to expand?
Carlos Mata, MD: Absolutely. Right now, we are in like 7,000 square foot office. Hopefully in the next 12 to 24 months, I will have a 17,000 square foot facility on Scottsdale road.
That we've. Working on, but with COVID and you know, city permits and this and that, it's just taking longer than anticipated. But no, I mean, the plan is absolutely to grow. And I think part of logistics when you're talking about partners, for example, is great. Somebody wants to be a partner. Okay. That's awesome.
It's not that I'm opposed, but I'm like, okay, so you want to get apple stock? Now, but you're not going to pay for it until five years from now. You think Apple's going to devalue or appreciate more? So, let's say it. How do you start paying for that now for the future? And what's that value going to be worth? Is it a multiplier of gross?
Is it including some of the Goodwill, the brands, so to speak? Or are you just talking dollar numbers? Let's say the office brings in a million dollars. Okay. So great. I'm 43. Let's say I practiced another 20 years. So, let's say I made a million that's 20 million that this practice in 20 years, what's that worth.
And somebody wants to be a partner. How do they pay for it now versus somebody coming in, usually doesn't have that kind of capital? So, it's kind of a, an interesting situation, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: That there's a lot more, one of your visions is one of your visions to bring on partners or have a huge, or where you're giving, you're allowing others in it.
Like what's, what's the plan? Cause that's 17,000 feet is big operation there and how does this relate to keeping booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: It is, it is, you know I think logistic, it's only going to have two ORs. You know, I operate five days a week. I can literally take an or by myself every single day, pretty much all day. I think for me, the plan is to actually slow down, to operate less, to bring other people that want to operate more from that stand.
And I think part of the logistics of having a partner or partners is now you have a lot of decision making that needs to take place between certain individuals. And obviously I would say I've created a, a sizeable business entity that functions very well. For someone else to come in here. No, no, no. I think we need to do it this way.
And I'm like, how do you. You know, from that standpoint, I guess I could say I've been very lucky to make good decisions for the most part, even though I'm sure I had my fair share of mistakes along the way as any business owner does that, I'm just about bringing somebody on who wants to make a very good living without having to kill themselves.
I haven't taken call or worked the weekend officially, you know, for insurance, since I left the military. Mm, you know, and most surgeons are like, well, you can't just start an aesthetic practice. And I would agree. It's really hard to start an aesthetic practice. Mm-hmm again, there's no such thing as a starving plastic surgeon, but are you as busy as, as some others?
No, but again, for me, it's about whoever comes on being able to generate as much income as I do, even though they're not an owner. So, mm-hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So how important is the med spa in order to stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers? The non-surgical due to all the advancements in technology. I am, is your goal to be like a, an umbrella, you know, a one stop shop kind of place and keep that patient not only coming in different doors, but then leaving in other doors.
Like, are you trying to keep them for a lifetime? Do you have a philosophy on that?
Carlos Mata, MD: I, I, I do, because like I, I said, you know, the patient has a follow up with me forever. And, and part of the like dynamics, which is interesting is that my surgical practice was feeding the spot when we started a spot, so to speak, you know, do we have pretty much every toy under the sun?
Yes. Do we have laser hair removal? Do we have CO2 skin resurfacing micro needling with radio C? You know, laser hair removal. We have all the toys. We have cul Neo. We have true sculpt ID. I mean, you name. We have it. And part of my philosophy was at the end of the year, I'm like, well, uncle Sam's going to take half.
I'd rather invest the money into my own company than sit here and, and give them half. So, I always bought little devices here and there, little by little and every year it's like, oh great. This, this seems like, in my opinion, it's going to generate income for my patients, whether it's post-surgery or, Hey, great.
Not a lot of people have this device. And I, and again, I only try to pick devices that I feel. Are going to give a result most of the time. Cause there's no such thing as a perfect device. Cause if there was, then that would be the device in everybody's office, for example. Cool. Sculpting didn't work. Yes. But now the market's so saturated that it's like taking sand to the beach.
You're like, great. Well, what makes you different? With your school, cool sculpting device and anyone else other than cost it's become so commoditized.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, if you have four of them, if you have four of them, that's, that's what makes you different in how it relates to keeping booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: Correct. And now you can do dual sculpting twice. You can do your RAs and abdomen at the same time.
Great. But I think that time has come and gone. If you wanted to get into cool sculpting, it' probably the first 2, 3, 4, 5 years, but now a. You know, 11 or twelve's a much harder sell and yeah, the technology is a little different, but at the end of the day, it is what it's and yeah, nonsurgical body contouring is the number one most requested item or surge for.
And so, you have to have it, I think, as a plastic surgeon, if you don't have that, you're going to lose that patient to somebody else and them being there, they're going to be exposed to whatever surgical practice is attached to them. That all of a sudden you lost that patient. And so, I'd rather not do that than I have always been of the mentality that if they paid a premium penny for me to operate on them, they shouldn't have to pay a premium penny to be in the spot that, Hey, if you're my surgery patient, you're going to get better pricing than.
If you're just a regular spot patient coming off the door, you know, we do have a, a monthly, you know, plan for, for, for the spa where you pay a monthly fee and then we have a different tier. So that allows the patients to have services or to accumulate dollar amounts when they come in, that they can group all that and get certain services that maybe cost a little bit more.
So, we try to make it affordable and the tier structure to make sure that we're encompass. Everybody who we can help because obviously we know nonsurgical is the number one thing in, in plastic surgery, you know, and obviously we've given that away to med spas or Ts or dermatologists or cosmetics people that I think it behooves all plastic surgeons to at least have a small component of a spa.
From that perspective.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, let's just talk about staff that is helping you stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers, because we jumped over that you have 28 staff that I, I would say, would you say that's your biggest challenge running a business or, or is it something else?
Carlos Mata, MD: It depends on the day. You know, and I think the, the hard part about having a lot of staff is you have to have good support staff.
I E you know, having my, my, you know, practice administrator versus it's very different having a practice administrator versus a practice manager versus an office manager. And everyone's like, oh, it's my office manager. And I'm like, yes. You know, but again, I go back to, to the secret sauce. Being involved. I E you know, I have conversations on like, Hey, how's our gross for the month.
What are our expenses? What's our P and L look like what's our cash balance. You know, all these things that are still playing on in the back of my mind that once eight to five is done, Hey, now it's my time to put my hat on and be like, Hey, you're a business owner. How are we doing? You know? And that's part of the evolution that most surgeons worry.
The surgical side, the medical side, and then they leave somebody else do that. And that's where sometimes embezzlement happens or this or that, or they're not paying attention to their checking accounts or writing checks. Someone else is signing, you know, or where the money is going. I think to be successful; you have to have your hands in the cookie jar at all times.
You need to know what's coming in and out and, and being aware of that stuff. But again, most people don't want to do that. And so, it's, it is going to be harder because you have to put a lot of trust into other individuals. And so, I've been very fortunate that I've had good staff that our turnover isn't like, you know, 50% that I know some offices have on a yearly basis, that it's more like.
10% or less. And that's usually because people get a job offered that's over and above, like two times what we're paying. So again, you know, I, I think that I compensate my staff in the top, rather who's to say.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And do you know how you have set up a culture? You must have a great culture that allows you to be booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. If you have low staff turnover. And a lot of times that has to do with the clarity the staff has. They're, they're real clear about what their role is. You've given them the tools that hold them accountable. You actually hold them accountable, or you have that right hand person who has such a good handle on.
Them doing what they're supposed to be doing and everyone on their game did, how did you set up the culture? It didn't just happen.
Carlos Mata, MD: No, and I mean, it was very much an evolution, you know, I think for the first couple years I struggled because the people that I would bring on is, you know, you're quick to hire, slow to fire.
And it just wasn't the right fit. And by fit, I mean, People that get the idea of work is work, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun at work, but that doesn't mean that all you should be having is fun and not working. And, and, and part of the culture is it starts at the top, meaning the surgeon or meaning the practice owner or whoever that is.
That's, you know, that's watching the podcast. It has to come from the top. And if you're a grouch and you don't want to talk to people like everybody, every one of the staff members has myself. Like, if there's a problem, they know they can always reach out to me. My office door is always open if I'm in here and you can ask me a question versus some people are like, Nope.
And yeah, you know, I do have a right hand. That is amazing. You know, she's been great. I've known her a long time and I know, you know, her she's amazing. You know and again, you know, she she's, she was from the military, you know, she ran an army base. I mean that, those are attributes that you're not going to find or few and far in between.
And I'm very grateful for that, you know, but we still have. Eye to eye conversations about like, Hey, I think we need to hire more people or, Hey, what do you think about bringing on this device? And so, we always have candid conversations about the logistics of the staff, because again, there are good days and bad days.
And when you have 27, 28 employees, of course, there's going to maybe little. Hiccups along the way, because everybody has their own little groups or clicks or the front office staff back-office staff, or part-time staff, you know, it's, it's always an evolution. But I think part of it is you have to grow and, you know, we don't just, yeah.
And I would probably say 80% of my employees are millennials, which is interesting from that. You know, and you know, I. I have nurses that are in their forties. And I have nurses that are like 23 years old. So again, it, it, it is a spectrum, but part of that is you're right. They, they have to get along.
They have to be willing to mesh. And if that's not evidence in an interview, do a working interview. And if it still doesn't feel right, then no matter how bad you need somebody, it's not worth headaches.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm just surprised that you give them access to you because I do as a consultant, suggest that you keep that buffer between you and the staff, because you'll have, especially the group that, that the 80% they don't have it, the same boundaries.
It seems I'm just generalizing as some of the older folks, but they'll go right in there. They'll text you all night saying, oh, what about this? Do you find that that happens or everyone is good with the boundaries and do you think that is a factor in you being booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: Never. And, and that's the crazy part, because again, part of that is, like you said, you're, you're giving a generalization, but within every, I guess whether it's, you know, baby boomers or millennials or gen X or Y or Z, there's always going to be a spectrum of people that fall within the norm and people.
That maybe relate to a different class. Part of that. Everybody knows that. And again, I go back to the starts at the top. If there's trash on the floor, I don't sit here and tell somebody, Hey, go pick up the trash. I will it up. But when we have a staff meeting, I'll be like, guys, why is there trash on the floor?
You know, if we need help flipping a room and I'm not doing anything, I will go help flip the room. Versus some surgeons will feel, Hey, that's below me. I have staff to do that. But if I see everybody's working and I'm doing nothing, then I do my best. Do I do that once in a blue mood? Absolutely. I don't do it every day, but whatever the circumstances are like, Hey, the bathroom needs toilet paper.
I will go get toilet paper. I don't tell somebody, Hey, get toilet paper in the bathroom. It's all these little things that people understand that I'm willing to work. So should everyone else, but they understand. I am the boss. So yes. Can I have a conversation and kid around with them, but when I say, Hey, we need to do this.
They're like, okay, I'm going to go do it. So, I, I think you can, you can kind of blur the lines a little bit, but I, I totally get what you're saying from the perspective of having that delineation and understanding the hierarchy of how, how things work in a run. But I think if, if you kind of set the tone at the beginning, I think it's.
And that's why I tell you. I said, my office is run very differently than what you could describe as most successful. 20 plus employee practices that you're like, gosh, he's saying all the wrong things that I'm like, nobody should listen to what I'm saying. You know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ah, it works for you. I, I know I personally have invested so much to learn the marketing and business side of plastic surgery.
And for you. How helpful was it for you to have all those incredible mentors or do you invest in courses or masterminds or how did you learn all of this so quickly that the business and marketing side mentors and how does this effect you being booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers?
Carlos Mata, MD: None. I don't have somebody that I call and like, Hey, what did you do here? Did I have mentors, you know, in plastic surgery?
Like, how do you do this procedure? Sure. You know, and it's funny because it's not the first time someone's asked me that question. Like how you been so fortunate to have all these, you know, things kind of fall on your lap. It's not so much, they fall on your lap. It's just like, you're running and you're looking for them.
And you're like, Hey. It's a good opportunity. And again, is it a whim? Sure. But if it makes sense, it does, you know, I, I was fortunate when I first got here that I did get my MBA, but that was just more on the fundamentals, I think just cause you have an MBA doesn't mean you're like, oh my God, you're going to be successful in business.
Cause you understood the fundamentals of, of corporate structure or management or marketing that helps. But I did that because I didn't have anything else to do. You know, I wasn't used. Not working 60, 70 hours a week that, you know, I had an aesthetics job and I worked 35 to 40 hours a week. So, I was like, well, I might as well, you know, have my GI bill, I'll go to school, I'll get my master in business administration.
I think it helped a little bit, but at the end of the day, you know, it's, it's trial and error, you know, and where did I get this information? Just going to meetings and investing in, in like the stuff that you do, for example, you know I always know I'm not the smartest person in the room, but I need to find the people that are smart at what they do and learn from them.
So yeah, I go to meetings and go like, gosh, how do you get your conversion rates? 80%? And I'm like, God, that sounds really helpful. So, when I go to a meeting, I go to that instead of like, how do upper eyelid it's taken for granted that as a surgeon, you're like, I'm going to go learn how to do a better uplift.
You should know how to do an uplift surgery by the time you're a surgeon. What do you need to learn that you haven't learned yet the business side and there's all these meetings and now it's, it's I think almost in every meeting, there's something to do with marketing or business or anything that's going to help the practice?
But most surgeons like, oh no, I'll have staff. But part of that is if you don't know what your staff is going to, how do you know that they're doing the right things?
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. I as I you know, I've been at this for 22 years and when I first started the practice management rooms were either nonexistent or I would be, I would give the only 15-minute talk on marketing and now the rooms have gotten bigger, but not big enough.
They're still, the surgeons are still focused on the surgery and they're missing the part about you are not going to make it in this Uber competitive world. If. Don't either invest in or learn yourself. How do you do this? How it's not about the surgery, it's about the marketing and the business side of surgery.
That's going to make all the difference in your profits, in your processes and your ability to stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. How you set this up to exit profitably. I just think I'll I, I'm just going to suggest to everybody, please learn more about business and marketing or, or hire somebody who knows it, because I don't think you can wing it anymore.
You know?
Carlos Mata, MD: I totally agree with you. And I think from that standpoint, you know, ever since I was able to go to meetings when I was a resident or a fellow, I would go to the business side. I'm like, I can read, I can watch videos on how to do surgery. I can't watch videos on how to run a business. Right.
You just have to do it and make your mistakes. Or like you said, find somebody who can help you do all this from that standpoint, you know? And I think the earlier you do it, the better off you're going to be. Cause you're. And, you know, I'm, I'm seeing this and I'm, I don't know if your practices are, but obviously, you know, things have slowed down a little bit from that standpoint.
Not for me personally, but I know other colleagues are like, gosh, yeah, our volumes dropped 20 to 30% from post COVID, you know? And, and I sit here and I'm like, I'm busier now than I was post COVID, you know? But I, I know when I look at, you know, how many people visit our website or things like that, the numbers are less than they used to be.
Let's say a year ago. But I think, you know, the recession's kind of a little scary thing, you know, because again, we always worry, I was scared to death when happened, that was like, oh, my taking insurance or move somewhere. We don't know what's going to happen. And it was a total reverse. I mean, I got busier after that as did every other plastic surgeon, even the not so good.
Nobody saw that coming. Yeah, exactly.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That I was very surprised by that. I, I didn't see that coming in regards to staying booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. And then we have to wrap it up because I know you have to get back to surgery, but just last question, tell us something we don't know about you.
Carlos Mata, MD: I never wanted to be a plastic surgeon. I never wanted to do aesthetic surgery ever. Not, not for one I IOT did I ever think I'd be doing, having a 99.9, nine, 9% cosmetic practice? Never in my walk. What did you, I went in, I wanted to be a cranial facial surgeon, meaning I wanted to do clef lip and clef palate surgery and work at hospital?
And that's it. And not worry about billing or any of that stuff at all. Never wanting to do that ever. So, when you know, Going back to the very beginning, like how, you know, how I got to private practice? Well, when I was finishing my fellowship or, you know, plastic surgery training I got accepted to do a cranial fellow cranial facial fellowship in Paris, France, and the military said, great, you can go.
And then once I told them like, Hey, here's my acceptance letter. I'm going to go. They're like no, you can't go. We changed our minds. So, all of a sudden at that point in time, they said, you can't go, you have to come into active. And so right there, the course of my life went from I, this is my plan and it went this way.
Wow. And so isn't that right here. I, you know, and again, it's, it's funny when I have conversations like this, because it still seems surreal to me that here I am, you know, 43 years old in a hundred percent aesthetic practice with a junior associate. You know, booked out six, seven months that I'm like it still doesn't register.
And everyone's like, you're successful. And I still don't see myself as successful. So still putting in the work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I will tell you, after knowing surgeons for 22 years, you have taken the shortcut. Somehow you have outsmarted outspent and able to stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. I don't know what you did, but you are on the fast track and good for you.
Do what you're doing and just keep doing it and ebb and flow, it will always happen. But I think you've got that your head on, right. You know, you're going with the times and you're, although I don't think you can move because you're Dr. Scottsdale. So, I think you're kind of stuck there. Think you're in good shape.
Anyway, Dr. Mata. How would they get ahold of you if they wanted to?
Carlos Mata, MD: You can just find me on Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat @drscottsdale. You can always Reach out to our office via email drmata@nrpsaz.com. www.naturalresultsaz.com or www.naturalresultsaz.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, check out his website and you'll see the pricing thing.
He has a very cool pricing tool that he uses. And just so you know, he has more leads in one day than most do in, I donβt know, six months. So, what, what he's somebody you should probably emulate and hopefully, you too can stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. I will let you go. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. I will see you again in a meeting hopefully soon somewhere.
Carlos Mata, MD: Of course. Pleasure. Take care.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and how Dr. Mata is able to stay booked out 9 months with over a half-million Instagram followers. Please do me a favor and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βBooked Out 9 Months - with Carlos Mata, MDβ Podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#halfmillioninstagramfollowers #moreinstagramfollowers #plasticsurgeoninstagram #carlosmatamd #drscottsdale
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how "Smarketing" attracts the best patients.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βSmarketing Attracts the Best Patientsβ.
Have you noticed how your attention webs and flows depending on whatβs going on in your life?
For example, youβre thinking about buying a specific car and you see that car on the road, on the internet and everywhere you turn?
Itβs the same thing with cosmetic rejuvenation. When consumers are thinking about making a change, they suddenly notice advertising, marketing and messaging around it they never noticed before.
Thatβs where Smarketing comes in.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about how to use Smarketing to save a lot of money while attracting much better patients from your efforts.
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Smarketing Attracts the Best Patients
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. And today we're going to talk about marketing. Specifically, how smarketing (smart marketing) attracts the best patients.
Now I ran across this term, βsmarketingβ on the internet and it really jumped out at me, actually, I guess it's used a lot in different industries and with different meanings, but I'm thinking smart marketing is the only way to go in this saturated aesthetic marketplace. It really sums up how to grow your cosmetic revenues by marketing smart, or βsmarketingβ to attract the best patients.
You save money on advertising since you are not spending as much when you're on target, you also save a ton of. Not chasing bad leads or spending time with consumers who are never going to book or wasting you more time following up with these shaky prospects who are ghosting you. So, here's the thing about smarketing (smart marketing) to attract the best patients.
The fundamentals of marketing smart (or smarketing) never change in order to get the best patients you can. They are now and will always be market message media. So, if you address these three areas, you're on the right track. So, let's go through each of, one of them market. Who do you want to smarket and market to now in the marketing advertising world, rather than being seen as the Jack of all trades, to all different people, you attract more prospective patients when you're seen as the expert in a particular procedure for a particular group to attract the best patients?
So, once you have their attention and you give them what they want, you can always promote more of your other services later because you've gained their trust. So, decide. Who you want to market to, and for which procedure before anything else? So, if I asked you, who's your dream cosmetic patient, what would be your answer to attract the best patients?
So maybe for example, you want the young breast aug girls, or you want the moms who want to get their pre-baby bodies back, or you want to attract women in their sixties ready for a facelift, just pick one. This clarity makes the rest of your marketing, smarketing and advertising effort so much easier to attract the best patients and you'll get better results because you're focused.
That means the marketing / smarketing bait you are using. Is going to attract a select group of patients most likely to want that procedure. Please remember this is not about throwing a net out to the entire world to see how many leads you get. It's about how many of those leads actually gives you money. So be specific. And then there's the message.
What do you want to tell the select group? Now, prospective patients are drowning in a massive barrage of marketing (but not always smarketing) content and advertising messages coming at them to 24 7 that forces them to shut off their attention to anything that does not affect them at this time. And the opposite is also. If a mom wants to get her pre-baby body back, she is on high alert for information about that. This is key to getting and attracting the best patients.
So, she's most likely going to head to the internet to do some research, to learn more. So, you need to be there with your own unique educational tools, explaining that procedure in your own words, but this is where your time is involved, but it's time well spent prospective patients want to hear it from you.
So that means you write a blog about that procedure. You create a checklist for who's a good candidate. You do a video explaining that procedure. You do a βQ and Aβ video addressing common questions while addressing common object. You even write a report or a guide or a book on that procedure, and then you offer it on the internet for free when they provide you their name, email and phone number.
So, with smarketing marketing, you're able to follow. and you calm the prospective patient's fears and help them visualize their future self by showing off great before and after photos of other patients who've gone before them playing video testimonials on the patient's journey to get back to looking good and feeling great as well as accumulating excellent online review in order to attract the best patients.
Now, you want to make them an offer they can't refuse. Now in this competitive arena of cosmetic rejuvenation, the last thing you want or need is patients, price, shopping you with your competitors. That's why you're focusing on one procedure that turns you into an expert. So. patients see your value over price. This is effective smarketing marketing.
Now another strategy to stop the price shopping is to offer something different than your competitors in order to attract the best patients. For example, you can design a very specific signature procedure package at a combination price. That way the patients can't pull it apart in price, shop it because it won't be apples to apples. For example, you could put together an enticing smarketing marketing mommy makeover package that is transformational and it includes body and face surgical and nonsurgical procedures.
So, something like mommy makeover, transformation package includes your choice of tummy tuck, breast lift, breast aug, scar gel garments, 50 units of Botox, two syringes of filler. And so on. Now, the last foundation is media smarketing marketing in order to attract the best patients. Where are these prospective cosmetic patients? Now this is where a lot of money is wasted and where smarketing marketing kicks in.
You do not need to spend a fortune to be everywhere and get in front of everyone to attract the best patients. You just need to be where this mom who wants to get her pre body baby is. So let's say you're spending 2000 a month on Google AdWords. Audience selection is key and it's vital to spend your money smart. For example, you would want to target females over 30 since they're most likely to have had children and choose zip codes in and around your surrounding area to Smarket market to.
But skip the zip codes that you know are not your social economic. Then, add interests that are most likely about this target market based on lifestyle buying habits and or home ownership. You also want to target those who visited, visited your mommy makeover webpage, as well as your current patient list.
Since they've already indicated they're interested in that procedure and then they're already familiar with you and they're more likely to respond to your messages. And if you advertise on directories, pay extra to have them spotlight you for that particular procedure. Also check into advertising on mommy blogs, mommy podcasts, mommy, YouTube channels, rather than advertise on crazy expensive general TV or radio programs, hoping that moms are watching or listening and would be willing to drive a distance or fly to see you because of those shows and smarketing marketing efforts to attract the best patients.
A way bigger, they throw out a way bigger net, per se. So, I hope you're seeing now how important it is to consider marketing. So, you address the market. The message and the media needed to attract your preferred patients through concise smarketing marketing efforts.
Okay. That wraps it up for me. And I hope you got value from this on smarketing marketing to attract the best patients. And, if you did, can you please do me a favor and gimme a review for Beauty and the Biz? I'd really appreciate it.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βSmarketing Attracts the Best Patients".
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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and what to watch out for with new associates. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βWhat to Watch Out for with New Associates - with Michael Persky, MDβ.
When do you add an associate to your practice?
Typically, itβs when you have enough demand that you canβt keep up so you bring someone on board who can pick up the slack.
Other times, itβs when you want to offer new procedures or you want to delegate certain procedures you donβt care to do anymore.
And then other times, itβs when you are thinking about setting yourself up to have someone one else take over your practice so you can slow down or retire altogether.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talked about the options above with Michael Persky, MD, a cosmetic facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Encino, CA since 1985.
Dr. Persky has experienced being the βnew guy on the blockβ and joining a practice, then going out on his own, then adding an associate, then losing that associate and finding another one and then losing that one and now in search of another!
Itβs never too early or too late to figure this out for yourself so listen in to Dr. Perskyβs pearls of wisdom.
Visit Dr. Persky's website at: https://www.drpersky.com/
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
What to Watch Out for with New Associates. With Michael Persky, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. And today I have a very special guest that I have known for a very long time, and weβll be discussing whether itβs wise to work until you drop.
And it's Dr. Michael Persky. Now he's a cosmetic facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Encino, California, which is Southern California and has been since 1985. Now he specializes in rhinoplasty, blepharoplasty, facelift, laser skin resurfacing, as well as a variety of non-surgical solutions.
Now, Dr. Persky is a frequently invited speaker, both nationally and internationally at facial plastic surgery and multi-specialty cosmetic surgery conferences, and he's a medical consultant on numerous national and local TV news segments, as well as a featured medical expert in LA daily news. LA times and LA magazine, Dr. Persky welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It is a pleasure to have you.
Michael Persky, MD: Thank you, Catherine. It's a pleasure to be here and it's always an honor to be connected with anything that you're involved in. So, thank you for inviting me. It's, I'm honored and privileged to be here and I hope we'll have a great session.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I know we will. So just to let the audience know, I have known you, you were also one of the very first surgeons I ever met at a conference and it was the Newport Beach Facial Medical Conferences. Those were just the greatest conferences. I just love them. And that was a very long time ago.
So just give us a quick synopsis of how you ended up in private practice. Did, were you still working in a hospital? Did you join your practice? What was your journey? Also, share with us about what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
Michael Persky, MD: Well, my journey began at UCLA pre-med and met in medicine. And my baseball career did not pan out as I wanted to. So, I medical school, Emory university did my residency training at county USC in head neck surgery, facial plastics in, in the last Couple years of my training, I was offered a position with two practicing facial plastic ENTs in Encino, California, and I in 1985, I went into practice with them and, and did primarily ear, nose and throat with some facial plastics as most young doctors in head and neck surgery training do after about five years, I went into practice by myself, going in with them about two years in, I had to buy in a small fee. And then when I went out into my own practice, I just established that by myself. Weβll discuss later my thoughts on what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But let me, let's just back up when you were with them, were you brought on as an associate (because I assume you donβt want to work until you drop and I know you have some good insight on what to watch out for with new associates). Then, you stayed for a couple years and then you were offered a partnership or how, what was the agreement?
Michael Persky, MD: The agreement was, I was paid a salary per month. And anything above that, that I brought in, they kept which is I, I found was the, the usual agreement. They kept a whole, the whole thing. Well, I, I was paid my salary at the five or $10,000 a month, which was ridiculous in 1980 5,000, but I, I don't remember.
But soon after, after the first year I bought in, I think for $50,000. And then I was an independent practitioner where I kept what I brought in and I shared one third of the expenses of the practice, which was pretty steep because I had two established doctors and, and I was young and starting out and most doctors and surgeons who start out don't have.
Big of a practice and that big of an income flow to get things going. So, I did take out a loan to establish myself, which for me was imperative since I didnβt want to work until I dropped, so I had to get the ball rolling early on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, was it helpful to be in a practice with two other surgeons? Were you at least able to live off of their name or their reputation or patients that they attracted, but didn't want and gave them to you? How does that all relate to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop?
Like, what were the. Pros and cons of that?
Michael Persky, MD: The pros were again both of them were, were phasing out of their ENT portion of their practice. So, I saw a lot of patients there and from E T patients, I was able to Gain some facial plastic patients, whether it was a patient who couldn't breathe and wanted a, a rhinoplasty or someone who had a mom who wanted a facelift and young physicians can offer their services at a lower price than established physicians.
And some patients who are looking for a deal we'll, we'll go for that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then, so you're, you were mainly like 100%. Like EM, ENT, no cosmetic or, or what was the ratio at the beginning? And what is it now?
Michael Persky, MD: I guess probably 90% ENT and 10% facial plastics. And that continued to grow over. The first five years when I went into solo practice after five years, it was probably 75% ENT, 25% facial plastics.
And then after 10 years it was a hundred percent. Facial plastics and, and no more ENT.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. So, to back up again, how did you. Untangle from the other two surgeons and go out on your own. What was that like? Any thoughts on this in relation to working until one drop and what to watch out for with new associates?
Michael Persky, MD: So, at five years, I, I had established myself. I had a flow of patients. I had an income flow and just felt that it, one of the, one of the physicians was older.
He was having trouble meeting the overhead. Every month, we were loaning a money and the other physician wanted to go out on his own and I wanted to go out on my own. So, we just split up at that point. And I established my own practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then did you open a practice nearby? So, you didn't, so you could assume that your patients would stay with you.
Michael Persky, MD: Actually, we had a very, very large office space, probably 5,500 square feet, and I just lopped off. 2000 of those square feet and kept the area and, and just re
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, okay. That's a great idea. And then how did you divvy up staff? Did you want to bring your staff with, did you want to start over, how did that work out in regards to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop?
Michael Persky, MD: That was one of the things. The first year I was in with the other doctors, I shared staff, but there was always a problem with hello, doctor's office. May I help you. And which doctor do you want to see? And they have their allegiances to the established doctors. So, AF within a year I had my own staff.
I had my own director; I had my own receptionist. I had my own medical assistant. So pretty much it was a transition from shared to our own, even though we were in the same space, we had our own practices.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And do you wish you had done it sooner or were you happy to get that experience with what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop? And get all that credibility under your belt.
Michael Persky, MD: Well for me, I was naΓ―ve. I was the first to go to college of my family. I was the first obviously to go postgraduate school. I didn't take a formal fellowship. My fellowship was being in practice with these two established surgeons who were probably doing the most rhinoplasty in Los Angeles at the time.
And so, I spent. First year, pretty much watching them, observing them and learning. So that was a good experience. I think most of the physicians today are coming out of fellowships. They can learn from their mentors how to run a practice, which is very, very important. I had no idea. So yeah, I, I would do it differently today now that I know about what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
I would definitely. Doing a fellowship and not only learning the surgical and medical skills, but learn how to run a practice during that year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, any staff pearls, the staff can be a challenge, you know, hiring them, firing them motivating them any, any pearls that you learned that work really well (when learning what to watch out for with new associates and the importance of having an exit plan so you donβt have to work until you drop) for you to put together a staff that stay put and.
Michael Persky, MD: Things have changed a great deal over the last three years post COVID with staff. I, you know, I just read an article the other day about staffing and, and not only in medicine, but everywhere criteria today to have hire somebody is that they have a pulse it's, you know, the great resignation people don't want to come to work.
So, it's very hard today to find good staff (or compatible associates for that matter). I think that one must interview them personally. I, I interview all my staff with my wife. Because it has a good insight into things. I don't, I used to, for many years just trust my medical director, the office manager to hire staff. And then I was, I had the final say at the final interview.
But I think today it's important for us to look at people from the start all the way through and, and see them in the interview process a few times before deciding on them. If I have a small practice, that's more like a family feel. So, we have to get a good feel for the person's ability to communicate with our patients and just be a good person.
And then also qualified in what they're being hired for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, so now we're going to back up because a long time ago we were at a conference and I ran into a very pretty young woman who had, she had just gotten out of, I don't know if it was fellowship or what, but she was, we were talking at a conference and she said, I'm really looking for a practice to join. Lead us into your thoughts on what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
I don't, I don't know what to do. I don't like, I don't know where I want to be. And sure enough. I said, well, And then you walked up and I introduced the two of you and take it from there.
Michael Persky, MD: So, it was in San Diego and it was probably 13, 14 years ago. And I was Dr. Shar who is an incredible physician surgeon and person as well.
And you had introduced us at, in the exhibit hall and we began to talk and she told me the things that she wanted to do. And I'm a native of Los Southern California, and she was coming in from the east coast and she wanted to split her practice between Beverly Hills and an outline Los Angeles area.
And I, so I advised her to just stay in Beverly Hills. She doesn't. To that two-hour commute to the, the outside area. And but after a day or two of the attending conference together, we, we spoke and, you know, we actually talked about, we, we met at the new beauty exhibit magazine and they were asking thousands of dollars to advertise.
And I, it clicked that well, here's a young doctor coming. She trained with a physician Vito Quella back east, who I always admired his aesthetic sense and his results and particularly facelifts. And she was an expert. Under him in facelifts. And I particularly didn't want to do facelifts. I always thought facelifts was the greatest one-sided operation.
If you could just do one side, but I, so I wasn't my favorite thing to do. And I said, why don't you come into the practice and you can do my facelifts and I'll, I'll stop doing those. And you could build your practice in the meantime. And she was. A new mom and raised in a family. So, it worked out good for the both of us that she came in and was able to establish a practice.
Seven years later, she went out on her own. And today she has one of the premier practices in Beverly Hills.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. And then you brought, you had another associate at one time, didn't you? Having associates is important so you donβtβ have to work until you drop!
Michael Persky, MD: Yes. So, then I was by myself again, which I'm comfortable with and for about three years. And then I was contacted out of the blue by Dr. Ari Hyman, who was at the time, a fellow with Dean Tomi. And again, I always admired Dr. Demi's nasal work. He's the premier nasal surgeon in the world, and he had good things to say about Dr. Hyman. Dr. Hyman said he was moving to California with his wife and was interested in establishing a practice.
And again, I said, okay, come on in. And., I saw his work. And once I saw it, I, I say, you know what? You could do all the rhinoplasties and the facelifts. And you know, I'll just do eyelids and, and other things. And eventually after. A few months I just decided to stop doing surgery and he did all the surgeries.
He was with us for about two and half years and very successful. And now it has it built out his own practice and surgery center. So, I'm back by myself again and actually I've been interviewing new young doctors coming out of fellowship programs, perhaps want to join me. The thing is I have a large patient population over the years that I've been established since 1985.
And so, patients are always coming in or asking me for surgery. And so currently there's, there's an opening there for a young doctor to come in and. You know, I'm probably at the stage of my career four or five years, I'm going to be selling my practice. And so, at this point, the new doctor who comes in has an opportunity of pretty much coming in and getting a Southern California facial plastic surgical practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, in the past, you were not looking at an exit strategy when you hire these associates. And now, now you are like, how are you going to vet? Because that's really big deal to try to hand your practice another surgeon. But you have to stay put, like, how do you think that's going to work out? What should other surgeons watch out for in regards to new associates and in your opinion, should they work until they drop?
Michael Persky, MD: Well, it, I mean, it's interesting.
So, I actually put. Some feelers with some of the fellowship directors this past year and at, we had about 12 interviewees come in and I narrowed it down to two.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And now what were you looking for in them? What were you looking for in a new associate for your end-goal of not having to work until you drop?
Michael Persky, MD: Once again, I think they have to be an excellent physician and surgeon and a better person. So, we, it, we have to be like-minded.
I've established my practice on being a good physician and, and having relationships with my patients and, and long-term relationships. And so, I need a person who is warm yet. Very like top, top shelf quality surgeon with great results. Cause I, I, I only, I, everything I have built over all these years is, and the only thing that I really have is, is, is my reputation.
Mm-hmm. But when patients call me, they know they're getting the best. And so, I'm only going to settle for the best. So, I, I had two of the best based on. Their fellowship directorsβ recommendations. They, you know, they said, this is probably the best fellow I've ever had, which is again, I heard in the past from the other young physicians who came in.
And so, one for her, her husband is, is moving somewhere else and she, it would've been way too long of a commute for her to come in. So that fell through. And the other young physician currently is actually, we just spoke this week. He's deciding whether or not to take out a large loan. Establish his own practice and build it from scratch or come in with me and for, to come in with me.
Initially, the young physician still needs to take out a loan because our, our deal is different from all the other deals out there. How so? So, banks will give young physicians. Bigger loans. If they show I have to buy this, I have to buy that and I have to buy that rather than I need to support myself during that first year until I build my practice big enough to, to be successful with Dr. Persky.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. Do you think you can build a practice in today's world? You think you can build it in a year where you it's self-sustaining so you donβt have to work until you drop? What about when dealing with new associates? What should others watch out for with them?
Michael Persky, MD: Well, again, it depends on the young physician. Both doctors, sender and Hyman were very active on social media, Instagram, particularly. I think they're before and AF and again, it's got to be great results, great surgeon, and very active on social media and willing to work hard.
Now it took Dr. Sun. Longer because she was pretty much in the office two or two and a half, three days a week while she was raising a family. and Dr. Hyman was, was quick within and, and this, so Dr. Hyman came in in August of 2019, and we all know what happened later in 2019 and early 2020. So, during the three, when we had a, we closed for 10 weeks in March of 2020 during his first year.
So just as he started. See patients and, and, and, and bring in some income, we were shut down completely. And he was still able to establish his practice well enough within two years that he was able to go out and, and establish his, his own practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, regarding marketing of a surgical practice, when there are two surgeons there, do you market separately to reach your goal of not having to work until you drop and so that you can have good associates?
Do you do your social media platforms? Is there any crossover? Because it seems to me you would have a different patient demographic probably than he does, you know, is just starting out. How did that work out for you when pondering what to watch out for with new associates?
Michael Persky, MD: And again, I'm different than most surgeons again, because I'm not doing surgery anymore. So, I, his success or her success is my success.
Their success enables them to diminish my overhead in the practice. And my success brings patients to them. So, with both physicians, we took out advertisements in local magazines together, you know, here's and I promoted them and I spoke with my patients and I, I introduced them to all my patients. And so, it was a combined effort on my part.
Their part because they're, you know, they have, they, they actually have a double benefit. They're, they're getting my promotion and then they will promote themselves on their own to, to carry on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you, when, when you bring a new associate on board then, is it it's pretty much two people kind of running their own practices, but sharing staff and overhead? How does that all relate to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop?
Is that the point?
Michael Persky, MD: Yes. Yeah. So, during the, the physical space, the equipment and staff, I, I found that when physician, the young physician gets busy enough, then we have to bring in more staff and the staff it's more than just a, a medical assistant at that point, they need to bring in their own. Type of coordinator, director who really fine tunes, their surgical patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. And then the new person coming on board, though, this is going to be treated differently because this is your exit strategy, more or less, right. Itβs important to know what to watch out for with new associates so you donβt have to work until you drop. You want this person to stay put, buy in and literally take it over and you walk away.
Michael Persky, MD: Yeah. So, in the I, again, I, I basically in the past, I. We had an agreement that was oral year to year.
Oh, going forward. I've now spent a great deal of time and treasure, as they say, having a very fair. Contract. So, for me, it's all about, and this is what I told the attorneys that I dealt with. I, I wanted something to be very fair and I wanted it to be protect both myself and the new physician coming in legally.
So, we've established that. And so, yeah, it's, this is going to be a little bit different, but basically the same setup. So, it's Fu you know, I, I know. From my experience that a young physician could come into my practice and be very well established in a competitive Southern California facial plastic surgical environment within two years.
Nice. And then have a career going forward for as long as they want to practice. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, anybody hearing that there's an opportunity out there in Southern California. It's absolutely beautiful where he's at. So. Think about that regarding marketing. I don't see, like, let's just talk about social media and how that relates to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
I didn't really, so you're not doing any at all right now, or are you going to start doing it again now that you're on your own?
Michael Persky, MD: I'm- No. I- So people say, well, Dr. John Joseph was a good friend of mine and we're in actually in the same building. And both of us have around the same time we stopped doing surgeries and, and, you know, we share the same experiences and thank.
He actually gave a great talk at Miami cosmetic surgery. Dr. Diane asked him to speak about his background and you know, I think our paths are very similar. Thank God. We've had good careers with excellent results on our surgical patients. No real complications. Thank God. All the patients that went to sleep woke up and they're...
And it's not that there's, you know, any wiggle in our, in our dexterity, because we're both still doing very fine work on cases and no drug problems or things like that. But at a certain point in our lives, we real like for me, The epiphany came one morning when I had an anesthesiologist show up in no surgery center and I had to cancel the case after he had put the patient to sleep because the alarms were going off and he said I said, is everything okay?
And he, well blood pressure's 80 over 40. And I, I looked and the, and the circulating nurse said, doctor. So, the anesthesiologist, the blood pressure cuff is on the anesthesia table. So, this guy had just come in, drugged out and had to cancel the case. The mother was in the waiting room. She had flown down from, out of, from San Francisco.
And ER, nurse had explained to her So, you know, there's just, at this point of my career, I've had a lot of good things happen. I don't want anything bad to happen. I, I just couldn't live with the severe complication or even, you know, patient death, which. Again, I've heard of a, a few in Beverly Hills, just in the past week.
So, with, from good surgeons that I know.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. You want to go out on a good note for sure. So, is it because you're down in LA? How important was PR for you to grow your name or differentiate yourself from the others and how that relates to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop? When so many others are after the PR as well. And do you have any tips and tricks about PR are you paying for.
Do you just happen to know somebody? How, how does that game work?
Michael Persky, MD: Well, I remember when I first started out, there were some practice consultants who said it doesn't matter about the skills of a doctor. If you have a good staff and a good PR, we can, we can make you successful. Certainly, that's true. It will cost you money to do it like anything else.
And I think for me, I, it never sat well with me. And I always felt that we built R PR. Word of mouth, one patient at a time. And one patient tells two patients. And, and again, avoiding that bad patient because one bad patient will tell 10 or 20 patients. So, it's all about stay for me. It was slowly building things along the way.
I never found magazine advertisement to be good at I'm old. Yellow pages. we're our, our go to in 1985, we've stopped those we've stopped those pretty shortly after that. I, you know, I, I, I started on real self when it was new and probably, I was one of the first five physicians there. I think that's helpful to, and then Instagram today, I think is the best place for young physicians to build their practice PR wise.
And, and it should all be about education. Educating our patients is most important. I, I, you know, I see physicians doing a, a dance and dressing up and, and I think that
it diminishes our profess. Although, you know, who knows that maybe the, the young Instagram crowd is into that. So, I I've been turned off by that. One of the things that I did early on the really, the only time I paid for PR was I was one of the first physicians to bring in the technology of a, a fractionated CO2 laser.
And at the time the technology was so expensive that I spent 25% of. That caused me on PR with a Beverly Hills PR firm. And they got me on some of the local and national news, and I spoke about the technology and that led to a few other relationships, but it was very expensive. And so, you know, I, it, everybody has to make their own decision.
I think, I think that if you have deep pockets paying for PR is good. I think that you. Definitely have been a great influence on so many physicians and everything that you have to offer from your books and your services. I've learned so much from you over the years and you know, I, anybody who's watching this, this is definitely the person to talk to about building your practice.
I mean, you, you're just such a great consultant and. and so, yeah, I that'sβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you for that. Yeah. We're, I'm also looking at an exit strategy because I donβt want to work until I drop, but I donβt need any new associates with my firm, so I donβt need to watch out for anything that has to do with them. Like we're all getting a lot older here and just trying to figure out where is this all going?
So just to wrap it, A lot of people are trying to understand the surgeons. Now can't just be surgeons. Like, even though you just went through like 14 years of hell to become a surgeon. Now you have to start with business school with marketing school, and you're trying to figure all that out now. So is there any.
Quick way for people to understand the business and marketing side of classic surgery. Did you do listen a certain podcast? Do you read certain books? And if you do, are they on leadership, business, marketing, social media, any tips there?
Michael Persky, MD: Well, again, I, I, the nice book sitting right behind, and again, this was not.
Catherine. I, I have to say that I was contacted about this. I didn't, I didn't know what the setup was going to be. There was no mention, I haven't even spoken to you. I spoke to one of your assistants. I didn't even speak to her. It was an email. I had no idea what we were doing. There was no mention of plugging you or doing it.
Oh, you don't have to. I, and I'm not plugging you because anything, again, my reputation's everything to me. So, I, I, I. It can't be bought. So, the book behind you, I think is a great place to start. I think that anytime I'm at a meeting, I, I, I think the meetings are important to, to attend one or two, at least a year.
I stay on the more. Clinical side, but there's always the administrative side. And whenever I see your name there and that you're lecturing, I think it's important to come in and listen to see, hear what you have to say. And, and for young physicians, it's, it's hard to take in both the clinical and the administrative portions of these meetings.
I think that it's good to have either a spouse or an assistant attend. So that they attend a hundred percent of the administrative portions and hear everything you have to say. And then again, become very facile in Instagram. Instagram is very important in building your practices. I think real self is good too, but you know, again, there's cost to, to that there's cost to everything there's cost to, to Instagram.
So, you have to have a budget that you're willing to spend starting off, but I think The, the blueprint should be around a great consultant such as yourself.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you. And so last question in regards to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop. What's one thing that we donβt know about you thatβs pretty darn interesting?
I happen to know that you love dogs and you love the beach, but what else?
Michael Persky, MD: My wife is such a good editor. and then she tells me I need to be a better editor. Sure. I probably shouldn't share the few things that you donβt know about me that I, that I would normally share. So, she's going to be very proud of me that I've done that. Okay. You know, I just think that, you know, we're all in the same boat life short.
I think that we have to help people. And be honest and truthful. And again, it, it it'd be nice if we could just you know, have, have some conversations and listen to each other and, and get along and not be so wacky.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And on that note, I hear you by the way it has just been a pleasure to know you, Dr. Michael Persky. I just, I think you're one of the nicest surgeons I've ever met before and your after photos are excellent, and you certainly know your stuff as it relates to what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
I'm going to miss you at the conferences if you stop going. Because hopefully we're back out again. I finally, you know, I, I, I sat on the sidelines for two years, like everyone else.
So now the meetings are starting again. So, I hope to see you short.
Michael Persky, MD: We will we make for the opportunity to speak. And if anybody has any questions, they're always welcome to, to call me. I'm always open to talk with people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really good point. If they want get a hold of you, especially if someone's looking for a really great opportunity to join your practice, where, how would they do that?
Michael Persky, MD: I, they could contact me My email, DrPersky@DrPersky.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's easy enough. And is it your website DrPersky.com?
Michael Persky, MD: Yeah, it's DrPersky@drPersky.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: DrPersky.com. Okay. Gotcha. Thank you so much. And everyone that wraps it up for us at Beauty and the Biz and this wonderful discussion on what to watch out for with new associates and if you should work until you drop.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for the βWork Until You Drop?β videocast and βWhat to Watch Out for with New Associatesβ podcast.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#problemswithnewassociates #newpracticeassociates #drpersky #michaelperskymd
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and ask the question of "is your practice built to sell". Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βIs Your Practice Built to Sell?β.
Is your practice worth anything to anyone else who could be interested in buying it?
Maybe. Maybe not.
Some surgeons have given up on the notion of selling their practice for a hefty profit because they donβt believe itβs possible.
But is that true? Itβs only true if you believe it.
Thereβs still time to change your mind on that and build your practice to be a sellable asset that you exit strategically.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast talks about what is needed for others to see your practice as an investment in their own future.
Actually, itβs more straight forward than you may think.
Enjoy!
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
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π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
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Transcript:
Is your practice built to sell?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now today's episode is called Built to Sell.
And the reason this came up is because. It's I've been talking to a large group of surgeons who have been in practice 20 years or more. And they're thinking about their extra strategy, by the way, the time to ponder this is now no matter how long you've been in practice, because it can take years to turn your practice into a sellable asset.
And if nothing else, at least you'll have a practice you enjoy for the rest of your career because the alternative. You don't do anything to improve your practice, but then you've got to know you've only created a job for yourself now. That's not a bad thing if that's what you want, but the goal is to be sure you're clear what you're working towards.
So, you're satisfied with the outcome. Now, since you've already mastered surgery, let's master the business side of surgery. That is what catapults you to success and a more certain future that gives you more options. So, all of this starts with mindset as always. So as a surgeon, you were programmed to think in a certain fixed way, and you had to think that way to become a great.
However, that thinking is the opposite of how a business person thinks. For example, you most likely put more value on you as a surgeon versus growing your staff and your systems, and you most likely work in your practice rather than work on your practice. Now, Michael Gerber explains it well in his excellent book.
The E-Myth. Why most small businesses don't work and what to do about it. I highly recommend you read that. Now, basically he says to run a successful business or practice, you need three key players. You need the entrepreneur to come up with new ideas, to keep up with the times. Then you need the manager to set up the processes and people.
So, things run smoothly, and then you need the technician to actually do the key work that makes a profit. So, in a cosmetic practice, you, the surgeon is. But you're also juggling the jobs of the entrepreneur and the manager, and that takes different skill sets. Now that's not a good use of your time and it will not get you to your financial goals.
So, we're going to change that up for you because when you set up systems, you and your staff get clarity, and when you remove the complexity results happen, because money is made in the process. Gosh, have I learned this the hard way money is made in the processes? So, here's the first big mindset shift operate your practice like it's for sale.
In other words, regularly, ask yourself if I wanted to sell my practice tomorrow, what would I need to improve to get the most value for it or said differently? If I wanted to buy an existing practice, what would I be looking for? And be willing to invest? So, let's focus on turning your own practice into a sellable asset, and then I'll give you several more exit strategies other surgeons have used.
So first you want to build a team of rock stars. Now hiring the right team for your practice will be your biggest challenge, but also your greatest asset, because it's all about the who. So please start looking at your staff as assets rather than overhead liability. They are your secret practice building.
When it comes to patient relations, since they spend way more time with your patients than you do, staff can make or break your cosmetic practice. So be sure you have the right people representing you. They are your leverage. You can't do it all alone, nor should you. So, when you hire the right people, give them the right tools and hold them accountable.
They handled the majority of your practice for you. So, you don't have to. So, focus on the revenue generators first, such as adding another surgeon or a nurse injector and or laser tech, then an incredible patient coordinator who knows how to convert consultations, then a receptionist who can bond with callers and book appointments.
And then the support staff and then an office manager who could be the buffer between you and all this staff. Now, as you grow, add a marketing person to handle your PR and social media, as well as a bookkeeper and then an accountant and eventually a COO to overlook. And by the way, this is the time to document each role, title, task, and responsibility.
Then you document how they perform the tasks using checklists and videos to screen capture exactly how they do the tasks. Now, that way there's no interruption in your processes since it's documented and someone else can step in, watch the, how to videos and use the checklist to get the job. Now the next focus goes to strategic marketing and planning.
A buyer is looking for an automatic patient lead pipeline and marketing plan to predictably and reliably keep a steady stream of patients coming through the door, as well as a plan to increase the patient's lifetime value today, tomorrow and far into the. Now the more, you can show that to a buyer, the more they will pay for your practice.
So be strategic by focusing on the six key ways you grow a cosmetic practice, and those are you increase the number of leads, increase the number of appointments. Then increased the number of consultations then increase the number of conversions. Then increase the number of patients returning for more and then increase the number of referrals because they're always going to be faster, cheaper, and easier than getting new patient-strangers from.
So, before you invest in anymore new patient attraction, shiny objects, plug up the holes in your systems that are robbing you blind. That's where you'll see new profits more quickly and easily. Now, as a side note, this is why I created the kiss loyalty club. It sets you up with a reliable stream of cash paying patients.
Who grow your practice for you organically without discounting? So, you have a more profitable practice to sell or enjoy, and you can check out those details at kiss loyalty club. Now, the next focus is on setting standards. So, you don't compete on price. You are surrounded by competitors who will slash their prices to attract new patients.
However, if the aesthetic rejuvenation was based solely on price, this would always be about the lowest price and that would turn into a race to the bottom and then nobody wins. Now. It's only about price until you add in other determining factors. To help the prospective patient considerate the value they get.
When choosing you now contrary to popular belief, the majority of cosmetic patients rarely decide based on price alone now, affordability and value. Yes, but price alone, rarely. So, get very clear about your value and what you stand for. Have conviction and believe in yourself. Now, if you believe you deserve top dollar, because you do great work, then price your services for your preferred patients.
Now, those are the patients who see you as a skilled, reputable plastic surgeon, and they're glad to pay more for your expertise so they can be confident. They'll get a great result safely. Find out what's important to those preferred patients and give them. For example, is it procedures, technology, innovation experts?
Credibility status, convenience, quality and or five-star customer service, and consistency is the key. Whatever you decided are your standards. Your patients learn to trust those standards and expect the same experience and result every time. And then lastly, you want to focus on leadership now, you know, you're doing a good job leading when your practice is running smoothly and your staff is working well, too.
You've got peace of mind. It's running like a well-oiled machine with, or without you there. If you feel frustrated, like you have to do everything yourself, or you feel the need to micromanage to ensure what you think is getting done is actually getting done. That's a red flag, because if you feel like nobody cares about your practice, like you do that could mean you did not hire the right people, give them the tools they need to succeed and, or you're not holding them.
So, the reality is you simply cannot build a successful practice by yourself. You've got to get a team supporting you, and that starts with your vision as the leader of your practice. So, decide now what your vision is. And I always say this, no thyself, are you building an empire or a lifestyle? Do you want to crush the competitors or be home for dinner every night?
You need to know that because it's going to affect every decision. And then be sure the staff knows your vision. So, they perform at a high level because they have clarity and they know the end result you're striving for. So, a good leader also takes good care of their staff and they take great care of their patients in turn.
Now that means you're genuinely interested in them as people first, then as staff show interest in their lives and families, and what's important. Catch them doing things right. And thank them often now a good leader communicates the culture of the practice. And here are just some examples that can be used to get your point across, but of course use your own, but this will be a good start for you.
So, here's something like we are in business to make money and do that by taking care of our team. So, our team takes care of our patients, or we do not say no to patients who give us money. We make time for them because that's how we get. We treat every patient the same with kindness and respect, always with a smile, no matter how many patients or how crazy it is at times, we acknowledge every referral with a heartfelt thank you.
And then so on. So as a good leader, make sure the entire group plans as a team wins as a team and celebrates as a team, they also give credit for their success to their team, knowing it would not have been possible without. So, a good leader gives the staff solid goals. They can work towards and have something to strive forward.
That is concrete. A good leader meets with the team, listens and gets feedback, and then lets the team brainstorm how they will meet the goals. A good leader then holds them accountable without micromanage. And team meetings are a must. When you run your practice, like a business, holds your meetings on the same day in time.
So, nobody can say they didn't know about it. Now this is true team building and keeps everybody engaged and interacting with the success of the practice because you want to know at a glance, if you're healthy or hurting, and that's easy to do when you regularly review your numbers.
Now you've got a well-oiled machine you can enjoy or sell or duplicate. And lastly, here are other ways surgeons use their entrepreneurial skills to grow or. They sell, documented and proven practice in a box system to venture capitalists or create their own management operation systems called MOS and invite other practices on board to give those practices of stronger buying power and scales of economy to lower their costs, or they come up with their own signature procedure and marketing plan that is reproducible for other surgeons to license perform.
Or they create a new product and sell it to the pharma industry, or they create a new SAS software. And SAS stands for software as a service that helps practices grow and they charge a monthly or annual. And there's many more of these strategies. So, I plan on interviewing lots more entrepreneurial doctors on this podcast.
So, stay tuned so you can get more ideas and get your creative juices flowing on how you too can gain more from. Just a plastic surgeon running a practice. Okay. So that wraps up this episode for beauty and the biz. I hope you got a lot out of this meaty topic. And if you did, please share a review on beauty and the biz and or subscribe.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for βIs Your Practice Built to Sell? (Ep.156)β
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#builtyourpracticetosell #sellablepractice #howtosellyourpractice
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to keep staff for the long-term. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βHow to Keep Staff for the Long-Term with Mark Beaty, MDβ.
Itβs so interesting to learn how each surgeon runs their own practice given their interests, personality, and goals.
There is no one way to grow a successful practice, although there are fundamentals. So, I interviewed Dr. Beaty, a cosmetic and facial reconstructive surgeon in private practice with 2 locations in and near Atlanta, GA.
Dr. Beaty has been in practice for over 40 years and he shared so many pearls such as:
- How he manages to keep staff for the long-term, even during this time of staff shortages
- Working with his wife of 22 years who is also a physician in the practice
- Bringing on an associate this past year and what to watch out for
- His biggest mistake that set him back 5 years
And, listen to the last 10 minutes where I asked him to tell us something we didnβt know about him and I was not expecting the answer he gave!
Enjoy this week's podcast on how to keep staff for the long-term with our special guest, Dr. Mark Beaty!
I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
How to Keep Staff for the Long-Term with Mark Beaty, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to keep staff for the long-term and if two locations are a nightmare or a dream. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them new patients and new profits. And I'm very excited about today's guest because it took me a long time to get him on here.
And it's Dr. Mark Beaty, he's a cosmetic and facial reconstructive surgeon in private practice. With two locations in and near Atlanta, Georgia, which heβll be discussing if itβs indeed a nightmare or a dream. Heβs also done a great job on figuring out how to keep staff for the long-term. Now, in addition to performing facial surgery, he also offers nonsurgical face and body contouring, laser services, skincare, specialty, genetic testing, which we'll have to learn more about and wellness medicine.
Now, Dr. Beaty is a frequently invited speaker, both nationally and internationally for facial surgery and he's even trademarked ProLiftβ’ facelift technique that we'll talk more about because that's designed to ensure a great result with the least intervention, which I assume that means downtime. Now he's also widely published and is actively participated in the development of several technologies for non-surgical enhancement of the face and body.
Now, Dr. Beaty and his wife, Laura, who's also a physician in the practice, which we'll have to talk more about. They're very active in the community and they support organizations, including Face-to-Face Domestic Violence, Cool Girls (that sounds great), Planned Parenthood, and several art organizations. So, Dr. Beaty, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
It's a pleasure to have you.
Mark Beaty, MD: Great. Thank you, Catherine. Nice to be here. Glad we could connect and spend some time together.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. So just briefly, how did you end up in Atlanta? Are you from there? How did you get there and be sure to also tell us how youβve managed to do so well at keeping staff for the long-term?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah, so I actually did my fellowship year here, so I trained, did my residency training at university of Iowa from the Southeast.
Most of my family's from the Southeast and fellowship year in Atlanta. And it just worked out for us. I mean, We were comfortable here. And my wife, Laura was enjoying what she was doing and we had an opportunity to stay in town and did.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Fantastic. So, what's the makeup of your practice? How many team members, service providers, that kind of thing?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. So, we are currently five service providers and a total of 10 team members; staff weβve mostly been able to keep for the long-term. And that has been actually interestingly, a significant expansion over the last two or three years. You know, I started out as a solo surgeon and our practice had been, and still is. Focused on the core surgical portion of the practice.
But about four years ago, we started making a serious effort to scale up. And so, we gradually added a nurse practitioner. Followed then by my wife, Laura, to help with our wellness medicine and some of the non-surgical aspects of the practice. And then we just brought on a second surgeon about eight months ago.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Has that, do you think in today's world, can you live on surgery or do you feel like you do need to bring in the other services that then feed the surgery? Or could you live with.
Mark Beaty, MD: I think you could live without it. I mean, I think the model of having a small shop surgically focused practices, still a very valid one.
What we wanted to do was to be able to provide a broader array of services for our patients so that we. You know, they're always asking you about the other things that you know, that they need. And while we had a great set and still do have a great set of partnerships here in the Atlanta Metro for some of those services, we felt like bringing them in-house and being able to offer patients the ability to do more of a one-stop shop.
Well, it's a win for everybody. So that's what motivated that change.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely see the pros and cons of doing that either way it keeps it easy and just do the surgical, or you can ask for more services to your current patients, but then you also, there's some complexity to that. Or there can be are you a dictatorship or like, are these people partners?
Are they contractors? How is that working after learning how to keep staff for the long-term?
Mark Beaty, MD: So, everybody has a little bit different deal and how that relates to long-term staff. And you know my new associate has just joined the practice, but our anticipation is that she will be joining us partner and you know, the other, other arrangements with ours. Nurse practitioners and other certified providers that are non-physicians.
Of course, those are our different long-term staff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Bringing somebody on board. I get this question all the time. How do you do it without creating absolute chaos in the practice when you choose when the two of you don't get along on any pearls on how you went about finding that person?
Mark Beaty, MD: So, I was quite fortunate.
My associate is Dr. Celeste Nagy. She's just out of fellowship with Dr. Steve Perkins from last year. Anyway. She did her residency here in Atlanta, so I actually had known Dr. Nagy for a few years. Prior to her doing fellowship learned when she was a R-3, I guess, that she was interested in facial plastic surgery.
So, we kept in touch. I worked with her on some of her pre fellowship efforts and then, you know, entered it came up as discussion that she might be interested in coming back to Atlanta. So yeah, we were able to, we were able to work it out and thus far it's been a, it's been great and so sheβs been long-term.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. I, and I hope it works out. You know what I always wonder though, you, facial plastic surgeons always add another facial plastic surgeon, and I get that, you know, you probably want them to take over the practice, you know, and, and in your facial plastic surgery patients, but I always wonder why wouldn't you bring in a plastic surgeon and then you could be neck up and their neck down.
Was there any question about that?
Mark Beaty, MD: That has been an open discussion within our practice for a while. I would say the answer for us anyway is that while we're not. Actively pursuing a general plastic surgeon that is absolutely on the radar. And would we consider and make available the physical plant to bring on a general plastic surgeon?
Absolutely. Have I found the right person at this point? No. I haven't. So, you know, it just, the order that it occurred was in this case, largely person dependent, you know, I have what I've felt to be the, the right facial plastic surgeon to join the practice come along. And that happened first.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Now, apart from discussing how to keep staff for the long-term, let's talk about your wife. She's lovely. She's been with you forever. And she's doing the non-surgical services in your practice and the wellness for females. How is that working out the pros and cons of working with your wife?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah, so Laura and I very intentionally did not work together for many years in our careers and actually had.
Had this discussion many times that we really like our marriage and therefore we really did not want to practice together. But about six years ago, five years ago. She was in a, at a transition point in her practice. And we decided that, you know, after, after 22 years that we would be able to make it work and we could actually work together (which would also help us keep staff for the long-term) as well as be happily married.
So., We brought her on and you know, it just worked out great. She obviously is a huge addition for the practice. It opened up a whole new avenue of services that we could offer. Not to mention the support of having a highly accomplished. General medicine, doctor, family practitioner to, to help us surgeons with the, with the medical end of things.
And she had been doing, she learned quite some time ago. Quite a bit about technology-based solutions. So, she has, has quite a lot of laser experience and radio frequency technology experience. And so that's the majority of what she does on a procedural basis within our branch.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then do you have pretty good boundaries like at home?
Are you allowed to talk about work or is it all, is it all work?
Mark Beaty, MD: No, it's neither. I don't think we don't really draw boundaries. So yeah, we do talk about work at home, but we don't fixate on that. And you know, I think we have pretty, pretty rich and diverse lives outside of work. So at least, you know, at least the less far, it hasn't proved to be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Terrific. Of your practice, how much would you say is surgical versus the nonsurgical? Because you're doing quite a bit of non-surgical body contouring. And what is the, the wellness section? What is that and how does that pertain on how to keep staff for the long-term?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. So, we're two third surgical, one third nonsurgical. And you know, the focus is very much on what we do is as facial plastic surgeons, as far as the wellness aspect of the practice, you know, we have many of our patients are coming to see us because they'reβ¦
They're not just wanting to enhance their appearance. They're looking to enhance their overall lifestyle and they feel great and they want to, as best they can maintain their vitality in every way going forward. So what Laura is able to offer is it's mainly set up as an advisory service. It's not intended to replace.
The patient's primary care relationship, but rather to augment it with things like specific specialty genetic testing that we do, you know, we do a little bit of work with hormone management and women's health things. So, you know, it again, more as a supportive role. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And does that feed into the surgery or is it basically like just a separate profit center for you?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah, actually it goes both ways. So certainly, there are people who enter into the practice through that in end of things either the non-surgical procedural end or through. The wellness advisement, young that end up becoming surgical patients. But it, likewise is a fantastic resource for our surgery patients to be able to take care of some of their other concerns.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And then let's talk about staff and how to keep them for the long-term. Most of the time they are the biggest challenge you have in a, in a cosmetic practice. I don't know if you'd agree with that, but any pearls about. Hiring firing motivating.
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. So, I've been quite fortunate in having an excellent and very stable staff, which weβve managed to keep for the long-term. And that is, as you mentioned, hugely important and is a big problem.
A lot of times in these practices you know, the whole aspect of training, an incoming person, not just how to keep them (being the staff) for the long-term. The culture and the day-to-day bones of how the practice works, but the whole process of integrating that personality into the rest of your staff is a tremendous expense of both time and resources.
So, when you're in a situation like we are where really all of our all of our staff members have been with us for multiple years for the long-term. And we pay a great deal of attention when hiring. To making sure that we have, that we are hiring not just for a resume or a skillset, but for a good fit with the entirety of our practice as a general rule.
All new employees are to the extent possible interviewed by everybody. Within the practice and those opinions are taken into consideration when we you know, when we consider hiring, I think to get the best quality people, you know, you, you have to, you have to compensate people. Well, you have to treat them fairly if you want to keep your staff for the long-term
And one of the most important things on how to keep staff for the long-term is I think you have to provide clarity. Number one, what the vision goals and mission of the practices, and also clarity about what the job that you're expecting them to do entails. You know, too often it's easy to expect people to, oh, well, they should understand that, but you know what folks aren't mind readers and I think providing that clarity and fairness of expectation and evaluation is super important and acquiring and maintaining a solid, long-term staff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you must have taken my MBA course, because you're saying exactly what I would have said as well on how to keep staff for the long-term. And another huge Pearl that you mentioned that I hope didn't escape. Anybody was having more staff interview the candidate to find a long-term fit.
I, so many practices just plop somebody in there and say, okay, here's your Sarah. And no one had input. And if you want some staff drama, that's how you. You get no feedback, don't let them be part of the process and that's where trouble ensues. So, I love that. And plus, you know what everyone is different.
We all have different personalities and you've got to figure out if they have a good personality for the long-term. They could have a great personality, but just not for your practice or for your culture.
Mark Beaty, MD: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's kind of what I was alluding to. That's one of the reasons that we started having everybody interview with everybody to get a sense of how personalities might match so that we could retain staff for the long-term.
Another little interesting thing that we started doing is we do Myers-Briggs. On all of us. So, we and I truly believe that that helps in you know, managing how to put roles together and how to put people together for us to understand a little bit about, you know, what that underlying psychological makeup and goal setting process is for, for each so we can all grow together for the long-term.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now, I hear you. Now, I took Myers-Briggs a million years ago and it was on, on regarding the demographics of your practice and how to keep staff for the long-term. Atlanta seems like a very diverse area. What is that make up for you? Because now you've got a lot of diversity in your staff, a lot of diversity in your patients. How has that.
Balanced, you know, like sometimes you don't have that. They, they very homogeneous kind of group. How are you handling that?
Mark Beaty, MD: Fair, fair question. I think that to be successful in the entirety of the Atlanta market, which has been our goal and what and, and what we're doing, you absolutely have to pay attention to being welcoming and comfortable for a very diverse population, because that's what we have.
So, our two long-term staff locations are varied. The original long-term staff location is in Alpharetta, which is in the, what is now I guess the second ring of larger suburban communities outside of the city. So, it is a population that skews a little bit older. A little bit more affluent, a little bit more country clubby. Our Midtown location is literally right in the middle of Atlanta and also has long-term staff.
If you, if you drop a rock in the, on the map of Atlanta, that is where our Midtown office is. So, as you might expect that population skews younger, a more ethnically diverse. More culturally diverse. And so, they have they have very different fields, but, you know, I think we, we have always looked to hire very open and tolerant and flexible people for our staff.
And we've been able to, to create a great environment for, I think, anybody who comes to see.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. By the way, you mentioned the two locations, how difficult is that to manage both of them in terms on how to keep staff for the long-term? Where is your time split? I am so torn on this. I often say, why don't you just go deeper in your own practice rather than try to go out and find some more patients elsewhere?
What are your thoughts on that and how what's your journey been like?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah, so for us in keeping staff for the long-term. As I mentioned, we started in the suburban location and we really felt like with the way that Atlanta was developing and with the way we believe it will develop over the next 10 years that we needed to be in town.
And so, we were specifically looking for a way to do. When we initially made the move, it's been seven, not quite seven years now to open the second office. And it was just me as the only surgeon, gigantic pain in the butt. You have, you know, no doubt what you have said, what. Right. Very true for me. And I was basically splitting time between the two locations.
Now, as we have expanded the long-term provider team and brought on a great nurse practitioner and now a second surgeon that has become much easier. And so. My time is not nearly as split a little bit more in the Midtown office. Dr. Nagy is pretty evenly split between the two as is our long-term nurse practitioners.
So that yeah, at this point that's worked out quite well. I probably advice wise would agree with you. If the intent is to continue to have a solo surgeon practice, I would think really hard about trying to run two locations because it is quite, I think it is.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then there are you managing your long-term staff when you're not there?
You've got to have some pretty tight controls on things you can trust people all you want, but you're still not there with them. Have you tightened up your numbers or your reporting or your tracking to make sure things are profitable or as profitable as they can be?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. I mean, you have to do that and honestly, You have to have a solid practice manager to be able to retain your staff for the long-term, because you know, one of the things for all of us as surgeons is who are also owners and who are running a practice.
You really have these two big hats that you have to change all the time. You have the running the business hat, like how to keep staff for the long-term, but you also have to be responsible for the overall strategy and practice of taking care of all of your patients. And sometimes those two things can conflict. And sometimes those two things can really compete for the amount of time that any one of us have to, you know, to spend doing what we need to do on a daily basis. So, I couldn't do it without having the support of my practice manager, who also is key on how to keep staff for the long-term.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. The practice manager. That's a pivotal role on helping to keep staff for the long-term. Another one that's difficult to fill, but when you find the right one makes your life golden.
Mark Beaty, MD: No. Yeah, absolutely. And in a dual location situation, I think that would be, yeah, you absolutely have to have that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's switch gears and talk about marketing and how that relates on how to keep staff for the long-term. I love the idea of. You differentiating yourself with your own signature facelift called pro can you talk more about that? Because that's how to do it.
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. Well, I mean, part of it, in regards on how to keep staff for the long-term, you know, certainly it has had its marketing benefits, but the, yeah, the main reason that I started talking about ProLiftβ’ is this is the methodology that. Came up with over my first 12 years or so in practice. And that published this and talk about it quite a lot. The basic idea is that I think most of us recognize that every facial rejuvenation procedure is different, just like every patient is a unique individual.
What that means is that there's no right way or no one way to do a facelift, for instance, on, you know, on, on each patient. That's always going to be the best. What you're really trying to do is to get each patient the best possible results that you can. While minimizing any unnecessary intervention. And so, the key concept with ProLift is that there are some of the decisions, particularly with facelift thing about exactly how we are going to handle tissue repositioning, specifically smash repositioning.
Some of those decisions are made intraoperatively because they simply can't be evaluated. Preoperatively. And by doing that, I have been able to achieve this ideal of minimizing the amount of intervention to only what that particular patient needs. So, they're going to attend that. Only the length of incision degree of the section amount of bruising that they need to achieve the room, the result that's appropriate for that.
That's basically what it's all about. So, it's very clinically focused. And then, you know, the marketing benefit is second.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. There's another differentiator that you have and it's your improv training? So, I saw Dr. Beaty and we were at a conference and he gave this great talk on how improv school helped him convert more consults and deal with people and how to keep staff for the long-term.
So, can you talk about that? Because as a facial plastic surgeon, You're working with very minute details of a face and you're working with a patient who's going to transform her face, not just your body. There's a little more room there for forgiveness, but this is the face. So, I just think. Patient when you're trying to set expectations.
So, tell him what, tell us about the improv.
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. So, this was something that kind of came about by accident, Laura and I both have been theater, go goers of a wide variety of types for many years. And we found ourselves, gosh, I guess this was, it was about a year pre COVID, something like that.
We were visiting friends in Chicago and we're at second city and you know, watching a show and had had the couple of drinks and they of course mentioned as I usually do that, they give classes cause most improv theaters do offer do offer classes to the general public and thought, Hey, this would, you know, this might be fun.
We've answered it about back and forth. And before the night was over at. Signed us up back in Atlanta at, at our local improv theater whole world, which is right down the street from where we live in Midtown. So, we started we started taking classes and got ended up myself doing formal classes for a couple of years.
And you know, I think it's a lot of fun and it's a great outlet for, you know, for getting away from work and doing something completely different, and itβs helped me learn better on how to keep staff for the long-term. As different than environment from medicine, as you can imagine, you're going from being everything, being super tightly controlled to everything being completely unpredictable and having to be done immediately off the cuff.
So, you know, I guess the main reason that I started it was because it seemed like fun and it was fun, but then. I recognize that there really was a huge secondary benefit. And that was just that ability of rapidly tuning into communicating with another human being, communicating with staff to better keep them for the long-term, or wherever the scenario or the conversation was going.
And it really does you know, convert into what you do every day. And enhancing your ability to pick up on verbal and nonverbal cues that people are giving you and being able to respond effectively to the conversation that you're having. This has been revelatory on how to keep staff for the long-term.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That sounds meaningful to me. I, I had enough trouble with public speaking and the secret was to be prepared, you know, but improv, not only is it public speaking, but now you have to think on your feet.
And I think it's brilliant. Like what good skills to have if you're willing to do it, did Lauren stick with it or, or no,
Mark Beaty, MD: she did about a year and a half feet. She stopped one class short of what I did. But yeah, she did quite a lot of it as well, actually, to be honest, she's better than I, you know, in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, it sounds awful. As a matter of fact, I'm from Chicago and I know, yeah, I know that the world very well, and I'm always amazing actually. Although now I can't stay up that late. Watch it. I just watch little clips on YouTube. Let's talk about social media because that's become a big part of a cosmetic practices, marketing plan typically.
So, let's talk about your marketing plan and how it relates to the long-term staff. Where's that fitting in there and what's working and what's not, when it comes to finding new patients.
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah. So social media for us has really taken over the lead by far. I would say in the last four years, we have gone through from being from most of our efforts being focused on website and print and associated live.
Kind of things too. The focus being overwhelmingly. Social media and website. We still do some, we still do some live event things. We still are active in the community and do events and social support. We do a little bit of print, but that's way smaller as the portion of the marketing allocation versus what it was only a few years ago.
So, one of our long-term staff members is a about half of their job is organizing and maintaining our social media presence. And I think that is where the majority of our marketing efforts go.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know what I'm finding, that's creating a new problem and that is you're doing all of this marketing via digital, digital marketing.
The issue is you're dealing with the public and they like to talk to you 24 7. So, what's happening is the practices are trying to figure it out. How do I communicate with these people when they're coming at me in all sorts of different directions, they're either calling of, hopefully you hope they call that's your best how does leave?
But most of the time nowadays, they might not be, they might be texting you if they can or emailing you or filling out one of your forms and they're doing it at 10. How are you, how are you handling? And I call them inquiries in today's world. I don't call them sales leads yet. I think they're still very much looking around and just checking things out.
So, I call it an inquiry, but how are you responding to that? 24/7. Do you have technology helping you or are you bringing the cell phone home at night? What, what are you doing?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah, so, so the answer is for the initial response after hours, we have technology helping us. So, they get a they, they do get an immediate response, but it's yeah, its basically technology generated.
Then one of, you know, one of the first things that. Done. When we come in in the morning is to go back through those inquiries and leads prioritize what needs to be done as far as reaching back out to those patients and or those potential patients. And we make every effort to get by. To our inquiries within 24 hours in some, in some sort of alive sense.
Now, as you've mentioned, you know, it used to be, that was always on the phone and that's not the case anymore. We you know, we do have a. Compliant texting and messaging system that we can use. So that has opened up a whole avenue of communicating with patients, not by voice that some people actually prefer.
And so, you know, that's been a little bit of a learning process for us, but I think I think has worked out quite well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What do you think in today's world the way it's changing so quickly? What kind of skills do you think you and or your long-term staff need to prosper and succeed here? For example, I think pretty soon everyone's going to have to have.
The social media person on, on staff as well as you can also have a social media company, but it's so obvious when you have outsourced it. I really think you need a roving reporter inside the practice, you know, catching the personality of the practice, the culture of the practice. So, I think a videographer is becoming.
And possibly like what other skills have you not needed before, but you need now?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yeah, well, I mean, I think to me, the, and this is the old school surgeon in me, but I think, you know, the core aspect of any practice remains and, in my opinion, will always remain outstanding patient care, great results. I mean, you know, that's what it's about.
That's what we do. And the other part. That are, as you say, becoming more and more necessary in order to generate. Patient flow that all of us need. That's where it requires the new thinking and the new skills. So, as I mentioned, we already have an employee who has as part of their job description taking care of our social media.
Everybody participates to some degree self-included and Dr. Nagy is great at this too. So, you know, we're generating conscious of and are generating content. For the practice and within our own social media feeds as well in-house videographer, I don't know. I can see an argument for that.
I know a couple of people who have one and you know, I don't think we're quite there yet, but sure. I mean, you know, if you're, if you're at the point where you're, where you're generating that much content That could ultimately be a great thing. We currently outsource our videography. But you know, to give you an idea of the growth of that over the last couple of years, we've gone from doing a shoot about every six months to our, what we are doing this year is we're doing a shoot every six weeks with the idea of generating.
10 pieces of a new video content, new professionally produced video content every six weeks.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Very, very nice. And you know, the only way to make that happen. To put it on the calendar and make it happen, you know?
Mark Beaty, MD: I mean, you know, for us, it was a we have been very happy so far with the relationship we have with the with the company that's doing our, our video and yeah, that is absolutely part of it.
It has to be, it has to be a plan and schedule thing, and even outsourcing the videography and the production. You know, there's still a lot of work that is incumbent on the practice itself because they're not writing for us. They're not coming up with concepts for us. They're helping with story-boarding.
But yeah, I mean, there's, you know, it's a whole another aspect of things that we need to do to make those shoots happen.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So how much of your marketing. Dollars and time and effort is spent on patient retention, because I feel like I'm the only one who talks about it. And I just think it's imperative that you get that patient to come back again and again, Refer their friends, give you a good review, approve their photos.
I have a system to make that happen, but I don't. Am I the only one who cares about that are -?
Mark Beaty, MD: You know what, I think that's highly practice dependent and we, as part of ours. As part of our mission statement and our core values specifically believe in patient retention and long-term relationships. I mean, that's what we're about. We prefer not to do. You know, single treatment, see you later.
That's just not, not our thing. So yes, we have always put considerable resources into patient retention. And I agree with you completely. That is probably your most cost-efficient way of generating of generating top wine versus constantly going out and seeking new patients. Fortunately for us.
Anyway, I think the internal marketing, keeping long-term staff, and patient retention efforts from a cost standpoint are relatively inexpensive compared to new patient acquisition. So, I would say as far as financial resources thrown specifically toward patient retention, it's probably. Of what we, what we spend overall, as far as effort, resources on the part of the long-term staff.
It's two thirds. I mean, we're constantly talking about how we better. Select for and encourage patients to do reviews for us. How do we create attractive packages for patients to stay with us or maintenance procedures that we know that they need and will enhance their results, but how do we best make that attractive?
And you know, part of what we present to our patients that requires a lot of personal and staff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just hope everyone heard that Pearl, it takes time to do that and how it all relates on how to keep long-term staff. But the point is you put in that time, so you don't have to put in the money. And, and then how exhausting is that you do consults all day with strangers, who is.
I have to think about it. I don't know. I could go talk to my husband. I have another consult to go on. I just think there's an easier way to do this, just saying.
Out of all the years you've been in practice, just give me one big mistake that you still, you don't lose sleep over it, but just a big mistake that you made that you.
Mark Beaty, MD: Yes, such an easy one biggest mistake that, that I made in practice that every mentor of mine told me not to do is if you want to do this, when you finish with fellowship. Go ahead and make the plunge and do facial plastic surgery. I started out my career doing facial plastics, but associated with a EMT group.
And that probably cost me five years in development. So don't do it. Your mentors are all going to tell you not to do it. It? Yes. It seems like a lot to bite off when you're young and you're just coming out. But yeah, you need to you need to be doing what you're trained to do. And that was the biggest mistake that I made.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay, good. That's a good tip. I hear that one a lot, but and so regarding your mindset is terrific. You, you have a very open, friendly mindset. I can see why your staff stays put you. I would think you; you seem easy to work with and easy to get along with. But how have you worked on the business and marketing side of things?
How do you know what, you know, did you take courses, listen to podcasts? How did you learn the business side and how to keep staff for the long-term?
Mark Beaty, MD: So, yeah, it's been it's been a combination of things and I will say that, that while I had a wonderful fellowship and training experience and particularly on the clinical side, I got next to no business training nor.
Conveyance of business acumen from that experience. And I think that's probably pretty common. I don't know that, but I expect that it is so yeah, you have to, for me, anyway, I had to acquire it entirely on my own and it was, I can't, I wish I could say, oh, I had this great plan or organized strategy for doing that.
I think that that's true. It really was just a hodgepodge of. The experience of trying things and making the mistakes, taking some courses and doing sort of program planning. But yeah, it was mostly, it was mostly just learning it from going out and do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's one of my goals. I do have an MBA and I did spend years in school and all of the business side and the marketing side.
Then you can shortcut it by just working with somebody who already knows it, but because they're definitely not teaching. And even today, even in today's world, they're not teaching it in medical school. And I don't see how you can do that. It's not about just the surgery. It's about the marketing and the business side of surgery.
It's all three of them that have to work together in sync to where you're trying to go.
Mark Beaty, MD: I agree with that. And I don't think that that will ever be something that's part of medical school or residency, you know, at the fellowship level, it would be nice. And I think that there are some of our fellowship directors who do, you know, convey a little bit more about the business side of things and how to keep staff for the long-term and the fellows who train under those people are fortunate.
You know, I just, I didn't get that right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So last question, tell us something we don't know about you and I, and you can't say this one because I already know it. I saw it in a video. Dr. Beaty has been to every state in the United States, except one. This is true. Should we leave them or should we tell them which state?
Mark Beaty, MD: Oh, Alaska is not missing.
I yeah, I had to, we actually, my wife and daughter. Well, a few years ago I had something come up. It couldn't go on that trip or I would've had all 15, but yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's what are your plans to get to Alaska?
Mark Beaty, MD: I will do so I actually have some friends from medical school who go up and do a fishing trip every year.
And you know, it's just it, it will happen just a matter of coordinating schedules as I, I, I, I really do want to get.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. Fishing, fishing in Alaska is as painful to me as improv is. So, you and I are never going to that's for sure. So, give us, oh, and there's one more that I do know. Well, no, you tell me what's something we don't know about you.
Mark Beaty, MD: I can pretty much just assure you that. Nobody. Almost nobody knows that I lived in a hand-built wikiup for two years when I was an undergraduate school. A hand-built wikiup that's a native American structure made out of like sticks and blankets and tarps and stuff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You lived there for two years?
Mark Beaty, MD: Yup. Sit on a friend's property and -
Catherine Maley, MBA: How do you look back at that experience? What did you get out of that?
Mark Beaty, MD: A lot of stuff. I mean, it was it was just the experience of building the structure was pretty cool. And it's, you know, it's a whole different very frontiers-style of living. Now. Now we did have, you know, this was on. Regular property just outside of town in Chapel Hills.
So, we create, you know, we piped in what we had water. We had, it was, it was not like totally rustic camping for two years, but you know, wood fired stove and it was it was, it was interesting. Not really. We set up, we created some pseudo air conditioning with some fans and water irrigation devices, but not really, it was pretty hot in the summer.
We were well-heated, but they see was pretty nice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. That's pretty interesting. And you are definitely an open-minded surgeon whoβs very focused on how to keep long-term staff. I donβt see that very often. Good for you. So, Dr. Beaty, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. And hopefully I'll see you at another conference coming up.
Mark Beaty, MD: Perfect look forward to it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Thank you so much, everyone. Thanks so much that wraps it up for us today on this episode on how to keep staff for the long-term. And if you have any questions for Dr. Beaty, his website is www.BeatyMD.com. So, you can talk to him there.
And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.
-End transcript for βHow to Keep Staff for the Long-Term with Mark Beaty, MD (Ep.155)β
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#howtokeepstaff #howtokeeppatientstaff #longtermstaff
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to conduct the perfect consultation. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βThe perfect consultationβ.
Itβs imperative to know what your patients want, what they think about you and your staff and how to set expectations for the greatest amount of patient satisfaction.
So, using a survey, I researched consumers personally to learn, first-hand, what they were looking for when searching for a surgeon to perform cosmetic enhancements. The survey statistics and responses can be found in my book Your Aesthetic Practice/What Your Patients Are Sayingβ.
My objective was to determine trends and commonalities on how to conduct the perfect consultation, so here are some of my findings:
The main reason both genders were considering cosmetic procedures was to improve their looks so they felt better about themselves and that gave them increased confidence
- 90% of the time, confidence in the surgeonβs ability and staff interaction were more important than price
- 86% of them referred at least two other people to that practice
- 40% researched their procedure on the Internet ahead of time so they felt well-informed
- 75% went on multiple consultations before deciding
- Long waiting times were a reoccurring complaint
- The better the staff, the less time the surgeon had to spend with the patient during the consultation
Listen in as I discuss how you can easily conduct the perfect consultation for increased conversions and have happier patients who will become raving fans!
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
The Perfect Consultation
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to conduct the perfect consultation. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βThe perfect consultationβ.
Itβs imperative to know what your patients want, what they think about you and your staff and how to set expectations for the greatest amount of patient satisfaction.
So, using a survey, I researched consumers personally to learn, first-hand, what they were looking for when searching for a surgeon to perform cosmetic enhancements. The survey statistics and responses can be found in my book Your Aesthetic Practice/What Your Patients Are Sayingβ.
My objective was to determine trends and commonalities on how to conduct the perfect consultation, so here are some of my findings:
The main reason both genders were considering cosmetic procedures was to improve their looks so they felt better about themselves and that gave them increased confidence
- 90% of the time, confidence in the surgeonβs ability and staff interaction were more important than price
- 86% of them referred at least two other people to that practice
- 40% researched their procedure on the Internet ahead of time so they felt well-informed
- 75% went on multiple consultations before deciding
- Long waiting times were a reoccurring complaint
- The better the staff, the less time the surgeon had to spend with the patient during the consultation
Survey Conclusion/Findings
While this was interesting, it was apparent that I could not generalize about patient relations in terms of how to conduct the perfect consultation, especially when it pertained to peopleβs preferences. Everybody was so different and their perceptions were so varied such as:
- While some thought an aesthetically gorgeous office indicated pride and success; others thought it was over the top and intimidating
- While some thought the doctors did not spend enough time with them and felt rushed; other patients thought too much time with them made them wonder why the doctor wasnβt busier
- and, while some thought the doctor was so thorough explaining the various procedures available, others felt oversold and confused with so many options
I probed further and asked, bottom line, why they chose that particular doctor over the others. The consistent answer over and over was that the patient felt a βconnectionβ with that doctor. Their βgutβ feeling or intuition was telling them this was the right surgeon for them. They had developed rapport and trusted that that particular surgeon understood them and would give them the best possible result. In short, they had experienced βthe perfect consultationβ.
So, What is Rapport?
Because if rapport is so vital in conducting the perfect consultation, itβs important to understand it. Itβs difficult to define and you either have it with your patient or you donβt. Rapport is that bond you build with your prospective patient. Itβs the single most important personality skill an aesthetic physician needs to be successful. You build rapport through words, tone and gestures as well as commonalities since:
- 7% of what is communicated is through your words
- 38% through your tone of voice
- 55% through your body language including facial expressions and gestures
Ok, so How do you Create Rapport?
First of all, the aesthetic patient wants to feel significant - period. When a patient is spending their own money and time on elective cosmetic enhancement, they want to be treated respectfully, professionally and kindly by every person they encounter in the practice β leading up to their perfect consultation. They also need to be heard and understood. There is an old saying that says before you can be understood, you must work to understand and that is truly the case here.
When weβre conducting the perfect consultation, we build rapport by creating or discovering things in common with the patient. That can be as simple as talking with the patient about who referred them to your practice or learning more about their profession and their family. The point is to show interest in the prospective patient as a person first; patient second. You can easily get this information from the patient information form sitting right in front of you. Just glance at it before entering the exam room.
Another way to build rapport during a perfect consultation is to mirror them. That means mimicking your patientβs breathing patterns, posture, tonality and gestures in a discreet way. People feel comfortable with people they believe are like them and mirroring will make that happen.
So, if the patient talks fast, you talk fast. If the patient talks loudly, you talk loudly; if the patient is meek and quiet, you slow things down. Use the same terms and phrases the patient uses and be sure to avoid any jargon that the patient wonβt understand.
If done correctly, the patient will feel as if they have found their soul mate, someone who understands and who can relate to them. Thatβs when you have developed rapport and the patient feels that connection with you.
Letβs move onto Educating Your Patient and Setting Expectations
When I asked the patients in my survey how they knew their expectations were being met, their concerns were being addressed and recommendations were explained, I got different answers. Why?
Because there are three different learning styles β visual, auditory and kinesthetic. Visual people want to see the results; Auditory people want to hear about the results; and, Kinesthetic people want to touch and feel the results. All of us have elements of all three modes but usually one mode dominates our decision and learning processes and how we perceive things. So, in a perfect consultation, you want to present your message in a way that gets through to the patient in the way they understand the best.
The easiest way for that to happen is to include all three modes of learning for everyone β something visual, something auditory and something kinesthetic. You should show them things, let them hear things and you should attach feelings and emotions to them.
Some suggestions to use to help in this process during the perfect consultation with the patient is to use your hand, your mirror and a Q-tip to show patients facial skin lifting procedural results, show them before and after photo albums of patients who were striving for similar results; especially those who share the same age, gender and ethnicity.
Computer imaging was overwhelmingly desired for illustrating results specific to the patient and videos of procedures and taped patient testimonials on an iPad or on your computer in your consult room can be well received, especially when explaining complex procedures.
Now letβs go over The Perfect Consultation
Here is a description of the elements needed to carry out a successful and perfect consultation. The following is from the patientβs perspective and based on my survey findings:
- knock on the door gently, greet the patient by name, introduce yourself while looking him/her in the eye and shaking hands
- spend 30-60 seconds learning more about the patient as a person. Comment on their occupation, or perhaps the person who referred them and you can get that information from your patient information form
- Ask an open-ended question to get the ball rolling such as βSo, tell me whatβs bothering you?β or βTell me what you would like to improve?ββ or βWhat can I do for you today?β
- Listen β while they tell you - nod, look them in the eye and take notes so they know you are listening and understanding.
- Now, ask open ended questions to determine if the expectations are reasonable, the results can be reached safely and they are rational about the process.
- Determine where they are in the process. A great question to ask is βWhat is most important to you when picking a surgeon?β Or βWhat are you looking for in a cosmetic physician?β.
- You can also ask, βHave you talked with anyone else and, if so, what can I tell you that you donβt already know?β However, there is no room for bad-mouthing your colleagues. It puts you in a bad light and makes you look worse than your competition.
- Be sure they have completely and thoroughly relayed their concerns to you before you respond to them. It can be very tempting to interrupt with your recommendations, but youβll get their attention much faster if you first give them your undivided attention.
- Always show respect for the patient. Even though you are the expert and know more, arrogance does not sell. If you come across as demeaning or condescending, youβll drive the prospective patient away.
- Use words a layperson understands, be concise and keep it simple.
- Repeat back briefly to the patient the main points you heard such as intended outcomes and the patientβs concerns. Ask them if you have left anything out.
- Look them in the eye to let them know you are confident, skilled and experienced. You have performed many of these surgeries or treatments with excellent results and you will do the same for this patient. A golden statement the patient wants to hear from you is, βSara, you are an excellent candidate for this procedure.β
- Reassure them that you can meet their expectations. Let them know you understand their concerns and fears so they trust you and your recommendations.
- Prepare and rehears a closing statement that sounds natural. Tell the patient you look forward to working with him/her to help them look their best and you look forward to seeing them soon.
By treating every single prospective patient as a person first, patient second and taking the time to develop rapport and gain trust, you will get a lot more yeses, but only if you perform your consultation as perfectly as possible.
Because βJust as you try to tailor your treatment to fit the unique features of your patients, tailoring your perfect consultation to your patientβs unique personality will increase your closing ratio.β
Thank you so much for your time on learning how you too can conduct the perfect consultation.
Thatβs going to wrap it up for us at Beauty and the Biz. So, if you enjoyed it, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And if youβve got any questions or feedback, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much. And weβll talk again soon.
-End transcript for βThe perfect consultationβ
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#theperfectconsultation #howtoconducttheperfectconsultation #perfectconsultation
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery, and how to turn staff into money-makers.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast gives you (4) creative strategies your staff can execute to enhance your image, bring in new revenues and make working for you more fun.
Hereβs what youβll discover:
- Social media posts that get more likes and user-generated comments so more potential new patients see you;
- Easy ways to grow your tool kit of social proof so potential patients say yes to you and skip going on other consultations;
- How to turn a satisfied patient into a raving fan that attracts other patients to you and a lot moreβ¦
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
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Transcript:
Turn Staff Into Money-Makers
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to turn staff into money-makers. Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs episode is called βTurn Staff Into Money-Makersβ.
Do you ever feel like even though youβre paying several staff people to support you, you still feel responsible for things getting done or they just donβt happen?
Or you wish your staff would step up and care as much as you do about growing your practice?
The reality is your team will never care as much as you do since they have not made the investment or taken the risk like you did, however, thereβs plenty they can do to help you grow when you turn staff into money-makers.
The first thing to do is to treat your staff like the practice-building secret weapon that they are. Make them feel part of the practice and appreciate them for their importance to you.
Also, make them a part of the decision-making process and give them goals to strive for that include profit sharing or perks when they reach them. This is key in order to turn staff into money-makers.
For example, Iβll lay (4) ways your staff can make you money and then I suggest meeting with them, reviewing these strategies and letting them decide how to execute them.
Here we goβ¦
Money-making strategy #1 to help turn staff into money-makers:
Name one of your team members to be your in-house social media practice ambassador, even if you have an outside agency doing your social media.
Itβs usually very obvious when you have outsourced your social media. It looks flat and commercial and you can tell if itβs working or not by the likes and comments you get or donβt get...
Your social media needs personality and that comes straight from your office, from you and from your team showing off the inner workings or the behind-the-scenes happenings in your practice.
Because the challenging irony with social media in our industry is that social media is so βsocialβ. Youβre telling everyone your business, so privacy flies out the window.
I hear plastic surgeons say all the time social media doesnβt work because my patients are private, and they wonβt interact with me.
Thatβs not really true and I would question your beliefs about that because there is plenty of proof to the contrary, so I suggest going on Instagram and checking out your colleagues to see how they are able to do it.
Hereβs the thingβ¦social media is super important for your online presence and to attract new prospective patients to you, so here are some pearls to help make this easier so you can turn staff into money-makers β¦.
- Focus on 1-2 platforms
Facebook is a favorite in our industry and they bought Instagram so that makes it easier for you to post once on both platforms.
BTW, Facebook has the most and the best demographics and higher income viewers than the rest of the social media platforms so you may want to try different posts there vs. Instagram which is a faster-paced social media platform.
I know TikTok is gaining ground, but itβs mainly an entertainment center for young teenagers who love to watch dance videos so, for now, I would stick with Facebook and Instagram.
But hereβs the challenge. Social media audiences want to be entertained so You need good content that is
- Informative
- Interesting
- Entertaining
- And includes your own Personality
So come up with content that is emotional, shows social proof of how great your results are and how happy your patients feel afterwards.
And, tell them whatβs going on with you and your staff with updates on your staff birthdays and anniversaries show photos when you are out celebrating as a team
Post any thank you cards and gifts you get from your other happy patients so prospective patients see how much you are loved.
Do a show-and-tell procedure live and then post it so would-be patients can see how easy, painless, fast aesthetic rejuvenation can be.
Invite your followers and their friends to your events and be sure they know they can bring as many friends as they want.
This particular practice did a huge Halloween contest where all their staff dressed to the nines and they gave away football tickets worth $700 to the winner. Thatβs how you get your patients to interact with you!
And then, of course, flash sales but keep them simple and compelling.
Money-making strategy #2 to help turn staff into money-makers:
Improve the Surgical Post-Op Visit
So much money is left on the table with this one.
A cosmetic patient should never be treated as a One-Hit Wonder.
If they want to look good, they want that for a lifetime so set the tone for them to come back again and againβ¦. forever!
Assign one team member to be in charge of improving your post-op visit so you get the most out of each patient. This is a fantastic way to turn staff into money-makers.
For example:
- That staff person invites the post-op patient back in for:
- You, the surgeon to not only see the patient but ALSO
- Have them pick up a special gift basket or goody bag youβve put together just for them
Now your gift basket or goody bag can include all sorts of strategic items that turn your patient into a raving fan. Here are some ideas:
- Add product samples to introduce them to your retail so they buy skin care from you rather than spend hundreds of dollars at the retail cosmetic counters at the local mall.
- Include gift cards for them to experience your OTHER services on their next visit, as well as a gift card for their friend so they, too, can experience your practice. They can visit separately or come together so your patient can introduce them to you.
- You can even make them a VIP patient now that theyβve had surgery with you. You can offer them perks such as no-waiting Botox appointments, 10% off retail, free monthly peel, valet parking and so on. The point is to make them feel special and put βgolden handcuffsβ on them so they donβt wander off to your competitors.
- You can add a βThank you for your trustβ note card with their B/A photos enclosed to show their closest friends and family and maybe even their FB and Instagram followers, you never know.
- And lastly, Include Patient Review Kits to make it easy for them to brag about you online because I find most practices donβt do nearly enough to get 5-star reviews. You are either doing nothing and hoping you get good reviews or youβre counting on impersonal technology to do it for you.
I suggest you give them simple instructions for HOW to upload a google review, but also give them starter sentences to write a really good review that other patients want to read. That would include:
The pain they were in and thatβs why they wanted cosmetic rejuvenation.
Why they chose you (which is why others will).
What you did for them and their journey with you and your team.
And how great they feel now about themselves..
I would also include a $10 Starbucks card that thanks them for their time.
Money-making strategy #3 to help turn staff into money-makers:
Hold an Annual Photo Shoot. Turn staff into money-makers by having them help.
We all know the 2 most important marketing tools that catapult you to the BEST Choice status is your social proof, right?
Itβs so much more important for prospective patients to see other patientsβ results and hear their story and read about their experience.
So donβt leave it to chance.
Those who make it a priority and focus on it, get the best and the most photos and reviews so I suggest holding a quarterly or at least annual photo shoot party.
Have your patient coordinator personally call your surgical patients and invite them to your exclusive photo shoot party. Another way you can turn your staff into money-makers.
Explain to them it's a fun event where they get their hair and makeup done by professionals, so they feel glamorous and super special.
Itβs also helpful to serve wine and food since they will be there for a while and you want them in great spirits.
Youβll also have a professional photographer on hand for their very own photo shoot to show off their new look and they get to decide which photos they want shared.
And there will also be a videographer on hand to capture, in their own words, their experience with you and with cosmetic rejuvenation.
A to top it off, you set up a social media corner with your practice name on the backdrop so your patients can take photos with you, the surgeon and your staff who took such great care of them.
Now they have the choice to share all of this with their social media friends and that spreads the word about you strategically.
Money-making strategy #4 to help turn staff into money-makers:
Is to Hold an Annual Friendly staff Referral contest. This is an excellent way to turn staff into money-makers.
Make up referral cards for all staff and then have them print their initials on it and pass them out all over town to their circle of influence.
They say each of us has on average, a circle of influence of about 250 people and can be a lot more if that includes their friends and followers online.
So, if your team is smart and motivated to win, theyβll pass out referral cards to their friends, gym buddies, yoga friends, hair stylist and so on. An excellent way to spread the word and turn staff into money-makers.
Theyβll also spread the word on their personal social media platforms.
You can have this contest go for 2 weeks or one whole month but no longer than that. Now reward them with gifts or money for:
- Grand Prize for most revenues brought in can be worth an
iPhone, computer or something else really valuable - Then other prizes for most cards given out or
- Biggest single amount spent by one patient
You want to be sure everyone who participated is a winner and, if they donβt participate β thatβs not good and that needs to be addressed because they are telling you they are not a team player, nor do they care about growing your practice.
Now these strategies take effort, however this is where the money is. If someone doesnβt know you or how great you are, they look for proof.
Prospective cosmetic patients choose you based on how well you can βsell your skillsβ using social proof, so they feel comfortable moving forward.
Because the last thing they want to do is make a bad decision and regret this.
Thatβs why word-of-mouth referrals, before/after photos, patient stories and online reviews are the holy grail of patient attraction.
Please work with your staff to execute these strategies to enhance your image, bring in new revenues and make working for you more fun. This is how you turn staff into money-makers.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for your time. And that's going to wrap it up for us at Beauty and the Biz. So, if you enjoyed it, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And if you've got any questions or feedback, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
-End transcript for "turn staff into money-makers"
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#turnstaffintomoneymakers #moneymakingstaff #staffintomoneymakers
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery, and how to ethically influence patients.
We use influence all day, every day and may not even be aware of it.
For example,
- You βencourageβ your kids to act a certain way.
- You βurgeβ your family to choose the restaurant you like.
- You βbutter upβ your staff to inspire them to do their best.
You most likely are also using influence when consulting with new prospective patients.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast (link), I talk about how to ethically influence patients to help your would-be patients make a good decision so they get a good result and NOT regret going elsewhere for a βless than stellarβ result that makes them feel worse about themselves.
Donβt worry. Iβm not telling you to do any mind-bending tricks, but I am saying use everything you can to ethically and professionally be seen as the BEST CHOICE when you learn how to ethically influence patients.
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
How to Ethically Influence Patients
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients, are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today's episode is called using influence to convert consultations (Ethically Influence Patients).
Now, here's the thing. You don't sell anyone on cosmetic rejuvenation and you can't force consumers to choose you. You can only offer your services to consumers who want to look and feel better. However, if you believe in yourself, it's your duty to Ethically Influence Patients them to make a good decision. So, they get a good result and not regret going elsewhere for a less than stellar result that makes them feel worse about them.
So, look at it this way, prospective patients are already interested in your services because they searched online. They found you, they called you and now they're visiting you. You didn't pull them in off the street. Right? So, in this week's podcast, I'm going to lay out ways to Ethically Influence Patients, to help them choose you over all the others.
Because even though patients have decided they want to make a change, that's only half the. Now they have to decide who they want to make that change with and who they feel a connection with and feel they will get a great result with, with the least amount of hassle and discomfort, by the way, the three biggest hurdles the patient has to overcome.
It's not just the money. It's the fear of rearranging their face, owned our body that day. They will get a good result as well as procrastination, which keeps them stuck in indecision. Now prospective cosmetic patients have most likely been thinking about this for years. So, it's just plain easier for them to continue to keep thinking about it than it is to actually do something about it.
That's why so many of the patients are emotional now. Oftentimes they have a life shift happening that has put a fire under them to act such as. And upcoming wedding graduation or reunion they're suddenly single or they're reentering the workforce or changing careers that puts them in an emotional state.
So, the more you understand the decision-making process, the better equipped you'll be to address the tough spots and help the patient get to. Now there are a number of techniques you can implement to Ethically Influence Patients and prospective patients to choose you versus the many other competitors, but do it in a very ethical and professional way.
So, here. Number one pre-frame you as the best choice before the patient meets you now consider what a difficult decision this is for the prospective cosmetic patient to choose a service provider, given the intense competition. So, help them out. Be sure your website credentials. Graphics design, social media channels and videos.
Give prospective patients a feel for who you are and what you stand for, but then you want to get logical and give the patients a snapshot of your highlights that answers the questions. Why should I choose. So, here's an idea. Compile your highlights into a one-page graphic. This is your visual brag piece, summarizing your education.
By explaining the years, it took you to become who you are, your experience by counting up the number of surgeries you've performed as well as the logos from all the PR you've got. Now here's number two. Another influence technique (to Ethically Influence Patients) is to set the intention. You want the prospective patient to understand where you're going so, they can relax because they know what to expect from you.
So, your goal is to remove all your defenses. I'm sorry. Remove all their defenses. So, they stop guarding themselves. Now you do that by being authentic and real. Now here's a great overall statement. You can say. Sarah. My job is to make sure you get all the information you need to make a good decision. So, you get the result you want.
Now I'll give you my professional recommendation and then lead the decision-making up to you. Sound good. What you have done here is taken the pressure off of Sarah so she can relax and think straight during her consultation. Now here's number three, watch your body language. Cosmetic patients are looking for clues to say yes or no to you.
So, all details count. For example, smiling naturally makes you seem approachable in life. Eye contact shows interest and indicates trustworthiness, raising your eyebrows signals. You're not a threat showing your palms indicates. You're telling the full story, and please do not cross your arms or put your hands in your pockets.
Since that signals you don't feel comfortable. And then you want to watch the patient's body language and the same rules apply to your patients. So, if they're smiling, looking at you open to your recommendations, You're in great shape. However, if they're looking down frowning, crossing their arms and closed up, something is off and you want to address it before.
Continuing now, as simple question can make all the difference such as Karen, you seem uncomfortable. Now, if you're anxious or confused about something, let's talk about it. That might be just what she needed to clear the air, address her concerns and get back into the conference. Now here's number four, clearly communicate patients are more likely to actually hear you and agree with you when you speak concisely and clearly, and have a two-way conversation with them that.
No big words or medical jargon or rambling. So, they can't get a word in edgewise. Now, in my book, your aesthetic practice, which your patients are saying, by the way, you can get it for free on my website@katherinemaley.com. That's where I interview patients. And they mentioned several times the surgeon did all the talking and they didn't get a word in.
So, they didn't feel heard. That's really something to keep in. And here's number five. Another technique to Ethically Influence Patients is scarcity and urgency. We humans want what we can't have. So, creating a real need for something or a time constraint makes patients want it all the more than if it were abundantly available now here's the thing.
Have your patient coordinator meet with the patient after your exam and recommendation, she presents the quote as if they're moving forward and then says, Karen, just so you know, Dr. Smith is booked out for the next three months. However, if you want it in sooner, I do have one spot left on this day. And date, does that work for you or would you prefer.
Now I use the word weight strategically since most patients don't want to wait. So, they're more likely to take that one day left now rather than wait for. And here's number six. Another technique to Ethically Influence Patients is called the yes or yes. Question. Nobody likes to be backed into a corner with their yes or no question.
It's too aggressive and it's uncomfortable for the patient. However, You need an answer that's better than I have to think about it. So, here's a way to be subtle in order to Ethically Influence Patients. So, you sound more professional and not salesy, but you get a better answer. So have your coordinator ask a choice question, for example, "Karen, did you want to go with the mommy makeover or just the tummy tuck or Karen?"
"Our surgical dates are on Mondays and Fridays, which of those works better?" So, when the patient chooses one or the other, they're moving forward. So just keep going. Now there's a lot more to Ethically Influence Patients, but this is a great start. Please practice these. So, they come natural to you and watch how easily your prospective patients turn into paying ones when you learn how to Ethically Influence Patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for your time. And that's going to wrap it up for us at Beauty and the Biz. So, if you enjoyed it, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don't miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.
And if you've got any questions or feedback, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
-End transcript for "Ethically Influence Patients"
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
#ethicalinfluencing #getmorepatients #howtoethicallyinfluence
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery, and how Brock Ridenour, MD decided to take the plunge and start over at 45 by going into private practice.
On this Beauty and the Biz podcast, my guest is Dr. Brock Ridenour, board-certified facial cosmetic surgeon running a very successful private practice in St. Louis, MO.
However, before private practice, he was director of the division of facial plastic surgery at the prestigious Washington University in St. Louis for more than a decade, so weβll talk more about that.
Dr. Ridenour has authored several book chapters and articles and is a member of numerous professional medical organizations, as well as frequent national and international speaker on facial cosmetic surgery and rhinoplasty.
He works with several industry pharma companies and vendors of laser devices and is a strong supporter of many charitable causes throughout St. Louis.
We talked aboutβ¦
- What finally pushed him to private practice
- His challenges and regrets and,
- The many lessons he learned along the way
Visit Dr. Ridenour's website at: https://www.ridenourplasticsurgery.com
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
The Jump Into Private Practice - with Brock Ridenour, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz. I'm Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. And I'm very excited about today's episode. I have with me, Dr. Brock Ridenour, now he's a board-certified facial cosmetic surgeon running a very successful private practice in St. Louis Missouri. Now, this is the interesting part before going into private practice. He was the former director of the division of facial plastic surgery at the prestigious Washington university in St. Louis for more than a decade. So, I want to talk more about that now, Dr. Ridenour. Heβs authored several books, chapters, and articles, and as a member of Professional medical organizations, as well as frequent national and international speaking on facial cosmetic surgery and rhinoplasty. And that's why I've, I've known him for years. He's been on the podium forever and we just kind of travel or travel around the world together. Now he works with several industry pharma companies and vendors of laser devices and is a strong supporter of many, and I repeat, many charitable causes throughout St. Louis. So, Dr. Ridenour, I'm so glad to have you on Beauty and the Biz. Welcome.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Oh, it's a pleasure. I'm glad that you're asked and I hope I have something.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know you do now. Here's something that I'm really interested in because I get the call quite frequently of the surgeon who's in the university setting or academia and he, or she wants to jump for a long time and their list of complaints that they have, but they also have that fear hesitation on certainty.
So, could you please explain your journey from university to private? What was that like and how mental was it? And then w what happened when it had to get practical?
Brock Ridenour, MD: That is a great topic. And I agree with you. I think there's a lot of people that are. In that position that chose to be in that position for a variety of reasons.
I like, I think that I chose that position because at the time I was sort of altruistic, I had some research interests. I wanted to kind of put my stamp on, uh, uh, on medicine at a, at a place that I think had some, you know, like you said, it was a noteworthy institution that had some resonance in the world, you know?
And, uh, but after a while, uh, I started to figure out that my real interest was in cosmetic surgery and I wanted to be a great practitioner, not just a great academic. And I knew that, uh, you know, from my experience there that it's very difficult. In a university that is so large and it's, you know, they have a lot of bureaucracy and it's very difficult to have your chairman or whoever it is that chair providing oversight to your career to understand how quickly things evolve in cosmetic surgery and how you have to react.
And you have to have, you know, certain channels for marketing and media, and you need a piece of equipment or you need a better environment in which to encourage these people to come in. So, after a while, I, I became aware that those things were very difficult to obtain, and I knew that I needed to go into private practice, but it's still a very difficult job because you know, most people have very little business experience.
Uh, I didn't even know how to, you know, Uh, software to do my bookkeeping, you know, when I was in an academic institution. So, uh, it took some soul searching. I wish I had done it sooner. Uh, my advice to people is that, uh, it is not as hard as it looks. And now you have a lot of wonderful people out there to help you, uh, to get started.
I think when, uh, my career jumped off, you know, cosmetic surgery was still in its infancy relative to what it is today. So, you didn't have the assurances that there were, you know, all these folks out there to show you how to market and to, you know, make yourself identifiable in the community and to begin to set up, you know, where do I find an accountant?
Where do I find, uh, you know, um, you know, a medical supplier or, you know, where do I, you know, what kind of, how do I get a lawyer to set up my, my corporation? And, uh, so it's, it's challenging. Uh, but. You have to kind of, I think, make the decision and that you're ready to leave based on all the right things.
And for most people, that's not the problem. They know they need to leave. They just have this fear that's been put in them that outside of this institution, you won't be successful. And I think the academic institutions do that a little bit to you because you know, it's to their advantage to hang on to you for as long as possible.
Um, and so, you know, because most academic institutions are built like a pyramid where the guy at the top makes the most and the people at the bottom make the least. And I think, you know, they want to obviously have people develop careers in that, uh, vein. But once you decide that it's not right for you, for whatever reason, you're not going to become chairman, you're not going to become, you know, the Dean of the institution.
And you want to go in and practice on, uh, you know, the art of cosmetic surgery on patients. You have to just decide that I'm going to do it and make a list of the things that you need to do. Uh, generally, am I, do I want to partner, do I want to come on as a, as an associate with somebody? Do I want to start my own business?
Do I want to join a large group? Do I want to join a large multi-specialty group? Think about what suits your personality. I mean, for me, I know. Uh, I I'd like to run my own show. And so, I mean, that was my problem with the university. That's why I started banging heads because you know, in a university do run your own show.
I mean, let's face it. There's a larger institution. That's much more important than you are as an individual. So, I had to figure out, you know, how I ran my own show and, uh, but for everybody it's different. I mean, for some people you want to come on as a salaried employee, for some people you want to start your own business for some people, you know, you want to join a large multi-specialty group, that's promising you, you know, a certain salary and lifestyle.
And, uh, I think you pick that. And then you, you make a list of things that you need to accomplish in order to head in that direction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I don't do decide you practically speaking. Do you have your wife answering the phone or do you hire coordinators or do you immediately get an injector or how did you figure that part out?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Well, that is difficult. I think, um, setting yourself up, uh, was, you know, I was in my, like in my mid-forties, I think when I decided to leave. So, I didn't really have an opportunity to start up. Slow. I took a chance, you know, I took a big entrepreneurial step. I found a bank that believed in me. I took out a big loan.
I opened a 6,500 square foot office by the way. Oh, well, thank you. I, you know, I, I just decided it's now or never, I had sort of reached that frustration level that I decided, okay, I'm going to do this. Um, but I think for younger people, you know, there's so many avenues for finding your place and, uh, you have the opportunity to start small and yes, you know, there, you know, and, and to them, you know, to do traditional growth, you know, traditional growth, Catherine, as you noticed.
It's where you see more people and you provide more services slowly over a period of time with that com building a staff comes building, you know, adding people on increasing your overhead, hopefully staying ahead on the profit margin as you do it. And then you get to a point where, you know, maybe growth doesn't make sense, and you look at other ways to make your business, you know, uh, flourish a little bit better, you know?
Uh, but for me, um, I was kind of all in a little bit because I felt this midlife crisis coming on, where I hadn't done all the things that I wanted to do in this medicine and in aesthetics. And I thought I had, you know, ability and I thought it was being unused. And so, it was scary. Um, you know, you, but once you get into it and you start doing it and meeting with people and understanding what's going on, it, it becomes more manageable.
And, uh, and you know, the fear starts to slide away and then, you know, it gets exciting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Um, you, you could have bought a little red car and instead you bought a huge building. And the beauty of that is it almost forced you to decide and commit because you were definitely burning the boats, you know, put your, your, uh, your name on the line at the bank.
And it has to work. And quite frankly, I don't think I've known any surgeon unless he was doing something weird. Nobody has ever failed. I mean, you have a service that every, you know, everybody wants it at this point. Um, it would be really difficult for you to actually fail. Even if you're not a good business person, even then you'll figure it out.
I really haven't known anyone. Who's like, oh my God, I have to go bankrupt now. You know,
Brock Ridenour, MD: I, I agree completely. I think that fear of failure, I think exists in all of us to some degree, but you're right. I think as a physician, if you are at all reasonable and have a pretty good work ethic, failure's not, what's going to happen.
You may not know. Do it the best way you may not get it. Perfect. You may have to take a few years to evolve, but failure is unlikely. I agree. I encourage anybody that thinks they want to do this to just do it. I think more than anything, just figuring out what fits your personality. You know, am I a solo act in my group back to my working in an institution or, you know, am I going to be a, a person that sort of finds my own way right now, along with that comes staff and staff challenges.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And I would say that's probably the biggest challenge of running a private practice. And especially right now, I don't know if the Midwest has incurred the same crazy HR issues that others are having, but what's the scenario there. Um, are you having trouble finding good people, keeping them motivated?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Well, I think that's probably the, you know, the single greatest is, is human relations, HR. Staff finding good quality people, uh, and retaining them is, uh, is a very difficult thing to do in general. And I think in today's environment, uh, where there's very low unemployment, where people are trying to find out what it is that really inspires them and makes them happy.
Uh, it's a little bit more difficult. I have actually benefited from that. I think because a lot of nurses have left the hospital systems and are less interested in working in those environments and have a certain degree of burnout. And, uh, our applicant pool when we post the job has been extremely good still, as you know, I mean to take somebody out of, you know, the ICU or the emergency room and teach them their aesthetic businesses.
And, uh, time education, uh, it's risky because you know, people then become quite good at what they do and then they have other options available. And so, retaining those people is always difficult. You know, legal avenues are not really, always the best to try to nail somebody down because you know, it ends up being restrained a trade anyway, most of the time and, you know, different states have different laws and eventually they're going to set up shop somewhere else if they want to work, join somebody else if they want to.
So, you know, finding those good people, uh, nurturing them, uh, is really important. Having them have a sense that they're part of a greater. Something been themselves, you know, that, uh, the, the, you create an environment they want to be part of and they feel good about that. They can say I work in this place and I'm proud of it.
And the people in the community hopefully go, oh, yes, I've heard of that. Or they have a good reputation. You must be a quality person as well. That's kind of what you hope happens. Um, I think, um, in a recognizing people for small things every day is really important. Uh, Meeting with them on a regular basis to get their feedback about your management and your, you know, how am I as a manager?
How is this as a place to work in, instead of it being always the other way around, you learn so much, uh, in that process, I'm not singling out, you know, Talk to somebody, you do it in private, you do it. One-on-one you, you're doing it in constructive ways. I think are all very helpful at the same time. You also have to be pretty good at recognizing the toxic individual or the person that doesn't share your values, the person that's not on time, the person that seems to be dishonest or, or to talk badly about other people, or doesn't share your sense of quality and how you want to treat people and getting rid of those people quickly, you know, um, making decisions that this is, you know, before you dragged that on into some lengthy process where, you know, everybody in the office it's miserable, that's also, you know, something that comes, you know, Uh, you know, but you get to the point where you get pretty good at that, because you know that it's essential for your business to survive, but you have the right people that are, that are there, you know, um, regarding the managing of people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What I have learned is it seems to me, the surgeon is better off being the visionary and the leader. And then having that manager, that's a buffer between him and the staff seems to work the best, but I love that. Um, it all comes from the top and dribbles down and you have to set the tone and the standards and the values that you expect from everyone else that just gives staff so much clarity.
Okay. Here's where we're going. Here's what he expects from me. Um, it's super helpful. And then are you also meeting with them or are you letting you know the manager here?
Brock Ridenour, MD: So, uh, I agree with you a hundred percent, um, that, uh, having a, somebody with good interpersonal skills and, um, you know, has that emotional intelligence as a manager is just so critical to making things work well, uh, because Hey, they have the time to do that as it needs to be done.
But it also, like you said, gives you a little bit of a cushion whereby you're not, um, you can focus on. The business as a whole or on technical thing, your purchase of equipment or something that needs to be done, or, uh, teaching in all those different things, the human resource part of it, uh, having, having somebody with that skill set is just really, really important.
We have a manager or an assistant manager and they both, uh, do it and work together extremely well. And that has made my life so much better from the standpoint of knowing that people are being cared for. And it doesn't require my constant attention. Uh, but you're right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That position has helped you stay focused on your core skills.
I just don't understand why people or other surgeons don't do that. They tried to do it themselves. They're trying to be the surgeon, the manager, the leader, the HR director.
Brock Ridenour, MD: When does, you know, and more and more, you know, with, you know, sort of the legal climate, HR is a more challenging. Um, area that you really need to at least have some outside help with, if not, you know, having somebody that knows it intimately, but, uh, I agree you can't, there's a tendency, especially early on, you don't want to pay all these people.
You don't want to, you know, incur this big overhead, but, uh, that is money well-spent because like you said, I think you're way more productive and way more focused on improving your services and what people are coming to see you for where you, if you don't have enough time for that and being thoughtful as to how does this.
Office, is it running the way that it should, are we providing the right type of services? Are we charging the right price? Are we, how are we, you know, pero health, what's our intake in our uptake process. Are we streamlined our rate? You know, if you're not doing that. Um, and instead you're worried about somebody's maternity leave.
Um, you know, I think it distracts from, you know, your growth and the big picture.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you know your numbers? Like are, do you have a pretty good handle on the numbers business numbers?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yeah. Yeah. I, I look at it, uh, a lot. Um, you know, I think, um, Yes, I think to understand what's working and what's not working, you have to sort of have an idea of what your inflow and outflow is.
And you also have to benchmark certain things. I mean, I didn't do that early on. I wish I had done it all my life, but, uh, somebody sort of educated me on the value of looking at how. This provider doing relative to similar sorts of providers in this part of the country, you know, versus this. And that's not going to be your only decision matrix, as far as this employee, a good employer to, you know, there's so many other intangibles in and around that, but you should definitely know this person's oh, wow.
This person is in the 90th percentile. This is a really important individual in my practice. They're doing really good things and what are they doing that we can mimic, or the other providers can mimic, uh, to, to sort of reproduce that. Um, uh, so benchmarking, I think can be very helpful, even knowing kind of like, where do you fall in line with some of these large vendors, you know, You, uh, a low Botox user or a medium or high Botox user.
And it's just sort of, maybe Botox is really that important to your practice, but maybe 10% increase in that area because you're under treating people or you have providers that are, that are not using the, you know, the, the sort of standard dosages or other things can kind of bump you up a little bit where now you can afford that, uh, that employee, that, you know, the manager person that you think you can't afford.
So there, you know, without having some sort of understanding of, of those numbers where they're coming from, it's very difficult, I think, to do your best in terms of maximizing your return on investment.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I liked the benchmarking idea a lot. And I also like always comparing numbers to something because otherwise they're just standalone numbers.
And, um, I love looking back at the same quarter last year. Um, although the last two years has been so screwy, it's hard to say, but, um, I love comparing numbers.
Brock Ridenour, MD: You know, year over year numbers are really, really important and also looking at your seasonal productions and things to try to understand where, what procedures I'm doing in this time of the year and what time of procedures am I doing?
And, uh, and also trying to keep a finger on the pulse of what, what you're missing. What are people asking for that you're not providing that you could be providing if you learn a little bit more about it? So that's also something that I, I, you know, when I hear people asking, what about this? What can you do for this over and over again?
And I feel like I don't have the technology for that, or I don't have the skill set for that. Uh, if I think that you know, that I can accomplish that, then I, then that's a good way to that's your next little step in your businesses adding that particular service?
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a good segue into talking about lasers.
Um, you're a facial plastic surgery practice, so that means you're doing space up neck up and, um, and then a lot of you're not doing body. However, there's so much nonsurgical body technology, but then you've got a building full of very expensive lasers. Do you have like a checklist in your head that. I buy a laser win and then.dot dot.
Do you have any kind of requirements for that before you invest in such a big-ticket item?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yes, I think so. Uh, although it's still largely subjective. I wish there was a way to do that in a way that is just perfectly, you know, analytical and quantitative, but there has to be some gamble in there a little bit.
So, you know, I started with the things that you can charge for, um, like a fractional CO2 laser, for instance, I mean, a lot of people need it. It goes very well with your surgical, you know, cases, uh, you know, people aren't going to be happy if they have a nice-looking jaw neck line, but their other skin quality is poor and they have wrinkles.
So, it's a natural fit with a surgical practice. Um, and you know, the. The price point for the procedure is, is good enough that if you do, you know, I don't have to do hundreds and thousands of them to get a return on investment. Um, so they start with those sorts of devices, you know, an ablative and a non-ablative sort of resurfacing device, I think is, is a good starting point for most people.
Um, I have veered into some areas where in retrospect or, or a little push, but for the most part, I've made pretty good decisions. Um, I got into CoolSculpting when it first came out. I had the second machine in the Midwest. And so, part of that market-leading for a minute.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. That, and it lasted a good year.
Brock Ridenour, MD: You know, I, you know, I made my money back in three months or two months or something and it was, uh, you know, it was very profitable for me for a while. And then it becomes a tight market, you know, where they're on every street corner and you, you know, you can't really charge a premium for those services and it becomes commodity driven and you have to have a lot of people come in and it's different.
But if you see a technology that is, you know, that it has promise. Um, so one of the things I did was, you know, I, the people behind it or have extremely high quality, I called some people that had done the clinical trials on it. And they said, yes, this really does work. I think it's a good investment. Um, I looked at, you know, the adverse events in the studies early on and things like that and thought that, you know, that were fairly low complication rate.
And then it's, you know, you know, people would be looking for a non-surgical in a way to control weight or fat, you know, localize that upon study. So that became, that was a real easy decision there, market leader, getting out in front of everybody else, uh, in an area that you thought can't mess really right.
You know, weight and body image. And so, uh, that's how I got into got into, you know, the cool sculpting, uh, Some of the things that
Catherine Maley, MBA: you love, you don't have to name the brand, but just something that you bought that you realized it just fell flat with your patients or with you or with the staff.
Brock Ridenour, MD: That's a great question.
See, probably some of the RF technologies, you know, I had, uh, you know, the ones that were going to Blake Peoples glabella, you know, with that turned out no matter how well we have bladed the nerves that they sort of recovered in a year, but didn't, that was not a cost-effective device. Didn't really kick Botox or a run for its money.
Uh, I have the sort of cannular based RF that they still pretty good, you know, especially, you know, the, the ones that sort of simultaneously, you know, pull the skin and monitor the temperature. But, but they're, they're not, you know, they really didn't supplant, you know, the procedures that came before them, you know, you know, traditional liposuction or other methods of skin tightening, things like that.
So, some of those are after viruses. Uh, you know, I had a couple of different microneedle RF devices, uh, prior to the ones that I have now. I still think they have a place of value, but they weren't, as you know, th that I, I'm not, I don't find myself, uh, recommending those the way that I do, uh, You know, a Fraxel dual, for instance, you know, just earn still Liam and erbium is still a great way to condition the skin.
And I, I do like my Pico laser, you know, for skin and, uh, you know, again, that's, you know, that's the next step laser kind of thing. That's where you have to have, um, you know, I think when you have a lot of foot traffic, it becomes easier to make those sorts of decisions and internally market them to the proper people, the people that want the no downtime, textural improvement, uh, you know, we have St Louis A.
Little bit, um, was a little monotonous for a number of years, but it's, uh, it's now, uh, a city of color and we have a lot more people of color and we have to have devices that manage. You know, darker skin types and Asians can type some. And so, some of those things you add as, as the need arises and the demand increases, he Ray have to balance it all with these tremendous costs that go with not only the device itself, but the warranties and the maintenance that goes on ad infinitum.
And, you know, I, you know, I probably have, I'm trying to think of how many devices I actively, I wonder warranty, but, you know, it's, it's, it's quite a few. And, um, so you have to get that return of investment right away. You know, I think that's something you really want to look at. Can I make this work and give yourself maybe six months to sort of get to that breakeven point?
In which case, then you have some time for the, make a profit to have your warranty pay you no money for that. And to, you know, allow for the fact that something of better quality may replace it as things age. And fortunately, you know, CO2 lasers stayed pretty strong as well as the, you know, the non-ablative devices.
That really haven't been a lot of changes. Uh, a lot of those devices, I do also own a device for vascular problems, but you know, that is a harder device to make money on and. Well, it's, you know, a lot of people have facial redness, but it's really hard to, you know, to get people to engage on, you know, they want their wrinkles traded there, you know, you're saying, but you have this terrible realization inflammation.
They don't see it the way that we see it a lot of times. Um, but I do have a VBM prima that I use that has added value to my patients. So sometimes you buy a laser because now, you know, when I have a surgical patient that, you know, gets some additional, you know, telangiectasias after surgery, I can treat it.
If I have patients that I bruise with injectables, I can treat it. If I have a bruising, we use it. I mean, literally every day, just to eliminate people's bruises so that they feel better about our practice and what we've done. So, you know, it's a device. You know, I, if I look at the return on investment is never what I wanted to pay, but I still am happy to own the device because I think it adds value to my patients.
So, there are some times you do that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, given all of that, How do you scale and or grow a practice? So, you start with you, then you add your nurse injectors. I also noticed you have a fellow. Is it time then to add an associate or start looking for a partner? Like in your case, the obvious one would be, you know, why wouldn't you bring in a plastic surgeon and then you have very strong boundaries, your neck up he's neck down, you know?
And do you have any plans for expanding this or have you filled in your 6,500 square foot building?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Well, we have used it up pretty well, but at the same time I have added an associate that's just out of her fellowship. She's also a facial plastic surgeon. Uh, she's now, you know, she's, uh, an employee at this point in time, but we're hoping that she developed some wants to have some ownership and who knows, maybe take over.
And then that would be the ideal circumstance. But I don't think you have to have that as a. Uh, deal breaker in terms of, you know, bringing somebody on, uh, I think that in my case, the reason I brought on somebody of a similar, uh, training is two things. One is that I, I don't need more patients. Um, you know, I'm at a point where I really am having difficulty maintaining or keeping up with the amount of patients that I have coming in.
So. Yeah, it's a good problem. So, uh, you know, partly she's here to help me with that volume. The second thing is that, uh, she has an interest in hair and that was a service where we're not doing his hair transplants, regenerative hair medicine. And, uh, that was one of those things that, you know, patients kept bringing up to me, you know, what do I do with this thinning hair?
What do I do with this? And yes, we're doing PRP and things like that. And, you know, uh, sort of the standard sort of things, but now we're more expansive. We're analyzing their scalps. We're doing genetic testing. We're, uh, treating them with variety of custom made topicals that are made of. According to their genetic profiles and we're doing hair transplant.
So, um, you know, that, uh, that's a way of scaling is, you know, bringing that other person in that is adding, but it's not directly competing against you, but it's adding some services that are not being provided that could be done in the office with the present staff without additional people. I mean, that's the whole concept of scaling is, uh, making right, making more money without increasing your overhead or.
Relative to the overhead where growth requires just this constant sort of linear buildup. And it does require, you know, like you said, when you first started out, you add an aesthetician, you get some people that can act as a physician, extenders or nurse injectors, you, then you get a management position to kind of hold it all together and to help you grow.
And then you add on, you know, some. Some folks to help you market to understand how the world works outside of your own little vision. And, uh, and then when you get to that place where you're kind of, okay here, I'm sort of there. Then, then you want to try to scale upwards and scaling upwards either requires what we just talked about, bringing in a plastic surgeon, let's say somebody has a non-competitive thing that basically, hopefully you don't have to expand your staff, you know, proportionate to what you already have, maybe one person or another person, you know, an extra scheduler or somebody comes on to support that individual.
And then you have, like you said, all these complimentary services that you are not offering prior to that. So that's what great idea. And certainly, I've thought of that. The reason I probably haven't done that is. And I may someday, uh, it's more just because it requires a little bit different equipment, little bit different, kind of.
Uh, set up and, um, and then you get kind of a different clientele, different kinds of bandages and hailing and those sorts of things. But but I do think that's, that's one of the obvious choices is to get somebody that is in another sub-specialized area, what we do. Um, and that's what I did with the hair kind of thing that was, you know, big draw is I wanted that service.
I think it's really important, especially to millennials and I wanted to get this, get that off the ground. And that was something where I literally didn't have to add anybody, but our heritage, you know, so, um, that is a very big-ticket item when you can get, it makes different kinds of marketing and advertising efforts than before.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's well worth it. It's well worth it. If you can manage it.
Brock Ridenour, MD: I agree. It is a whole different arena and, uh, there's a lot of specialized places and, uh, you know, you're competing against some of these behemoths, but, uh, there's a lot of people that want it locally and want it from a quality place they know, and recognize and know that it's, you know, hopefully they have faith in us that we're going to provide those services at a high level, which we are, you know, where we wouldn't do it.
If we didn't think we were doing it at the highest possible. So, um, and then, you know, the other way to scale up is, is, you know, when you get busy enough, instead of killing yourself and doing this more and more and more of the same procedure, you can sit back and say, okay, I am going to raise my prices and if a few people drop off it's okay.
And that that's something that was always been extremely hard for me because. In a modest beginning and I want it, I want it to be accessible and that sort of thing, but it just plain makes sense. You know, you can't treat everybody, raise your prices a little bit, make a bigger, you know, make, may improve your, your bottom line without, uh, you know, giving up your entire life, you know, which is, you know, Treating it like a commodity and doing hundreds of men stuff.
And I'm not, I've never, I won't be the kind of doctor, you know, even if I think I do similar quality work, I'm not going to be the Birkin bag doctor. And in our work, you charge this really outrageous, you know, high price, uh, because it, it takes a certain amount of it doesn't fit my personality. You have to have a lot of ego there to pull that off, but you know, that is something people do, you know, to scale up is okay.
Now my operation costs five times as much, and there's a certain group of people that are attracted to that issue.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Now it's a different market though. It's a different
Brock Ridenour, MD: demographic. And, uh, but, uh, but I think, you know, some, some increase in price when you get busy enough, makes sense. I mean, that's just, you know, that's how you want to control the pace of your practice and make a little bit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, doctor Ridenour, give us one business mistake that you've made that you learned a lot from, because everything always looks so great. When I do these podcasts, everyone's doing great. They have all the patients they need, but something always goes sideways, you know, somewhere in there. So, give us just one.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Okay. Sure. I think probably the single biggest emotional heartbreak I had was with an employee that, um, I saw certain characteristics as well. You know, I had concerns about, but didn't act quickly enough with that individual to make a decision that these signs were enough to terminate this person's employment.
And so, I let them persist for a while and then we got into the COVID epidemic and, uh, she got into some financial hardship then sort of made this decision to, uh, Sue me for a toxic or hostile work environment. And that occurred because, you know, I sort of made the mistake of allowing myself to be vulnerable with that because I got.
Pretty angry at her, you know, uh, because she was not showing up to the zone meeting. She wasn't, you know, um, making herself available, uh, in the hours that she had prescribed, um, bunch of different things. So, I lost my cool, uh, to a degree. And then, you know, was, had to work myself through some sort of that employment lawsuit, also all that ends.
Well, you know, once we get by those things, you learned such a valuable lesson. And one of the things I would say is you cannot trust people the way that you would like to many times you need to treat them with respect. We try to have a family sort of environment, but I will never have that. Level of the, again, I think you have to always, I mean, one of the things I liked about, uh, the last meeting I saw you out, I believe in probably Miami or something was known, they had a section on all those employment issues and people should really pay very close attention to those, you know, how to, um, you know, the, the HR and that's why you shouldn't be your own HR person either.
And I wasn't, but, um, you know, I, they were telling me that she needed to go and I was the one that sort of allowed that to continue because I thought, oh, you know, she's got all these other good qualities, you know, but, so I think, you know, that labor, uh, issues are always the most challenging, I think. And, uh, I, uh, allowed myself to be kind of.
Made vulnerable to that and makes me very mad, you know? I did that by simply not taking care of a problem. That was, that was there. I recognized it and didn't act on it. So that was one of my big folk paws. And I wasn't like a big decision that cost me a lot of money or cost me a reputation or anything like that.
I made; I did no wrong. I promise. And I feel strongly that I wouldn't even, I didn't even require a nondisclosure at the conclusion of it because I know I didn't do anything wrong and I feel free to talk to you about it. But just to tell people that you have to be very careful with your employees. And occasionally, you know, I love the people that work here and many have been here 10 years longer, but, uh, it's, it's a challenging landscape out there.
You have to be big. Learn how to walk around those little minefields a little bit. Other than that, Yeah. Other than that, you know, the occasional bad purchase, you know, the device that, you know, is it didn't get as much as I thought it would. Uh, and I've been very fortunate. I really have, I haven't made too many blunders, but starting earlier, but how does it have, that's probably my biggest regret spending five more years at the university then than I wanted to.
And, uh, and then trying to play catch up, you know, trying to grow the practice quickly, work, work, work, work, try to build up to some point where you're ready to retire. I think it's just like investing. You start at a young age, you know, that's why I say get after it. If you're, if you know, that's what you want to do, don't be afraid.
Just your, your biggest mistake will be hanging on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's such a great Pearl jump sooner than you want, and it will work out and will work out.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yeah, it will work out. Yeah. And if anybody, anybody that sees this, that wants to talk a bit about it personally, I'd be happy to fill their phone call and tell them about my experience in the endeavor.
It's a little challenging, you know, sometimes the university, they turn on you a little bit. They're mad at you. They don't, you know, they wouldn't forward my patient phone calls, you know, all those little petty things, but you know, you survive it, you get by, it's not hard. And a matter of fact, it's so much more fun being in charge of your own existence and working with the people that you choose and want to be with.
So, I mean that first year was not rough at all. I thought I thought it would be, you know, just scraping by, but I've made more money in my first year in private practice than I got paid in theater.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Interesting. That's how that's great. Um, so let's switch over to marketing because you definitely had to come up with patients that first year, but that was a long time ago, and now it's a lot more challenging, a lot more technical.
It's got a lot more of everything. So, um, how competitive is it in St. Louis?
Brock Ridenour, MD: And it's getting increasingly competitive, but I think that's great. Uh, I, in a way, you know, sort of rising tide lifts all boats. I think that I've learned a whole lot from my, you know, my bigger competitors, um, because he'd watch what they do, what they do well, what they don't do well.
And, and, you know, again, I do think that we live in an environment now where there are in a maybe, you know, Southern California, things are a little more challenging for sure, but, you know, and some of the big markets, but there's also lots more patients that are willing to spend money as well. So, I don't know.
Uh, but yeah, St. Louis is really, uh, the number of people doing this has doubled or tripled since I've started in probably the least tripled. And there's some very good quality doctors in town, but I think they've only made me better. Um, and so, uh, but you have to find your niche in that environment. You know, who you're going to be.
I think we're a, we're a luxury practice in the sense that we have really good patient care. We try to do high quality work. We try to only use the best equipment. We train people. To be, I like to think by aesthetic nurse practitioners are better than most doctors, um, in the sense of, uh, their education on those devices, their understanding of their endpoints and treatments they're experienced.
And so, people, I think, respect us for that. I don't try to be, like I said, I'm not going to try to be the park avenue guy. That's just not my style. Uh, you know, I want the, I want to make a profit. I want to get, I want to, I do all those extended deep plane. Everything's, you know, I do all the same surgeries I do.
And I think I do them well, but you know, again, I, I don't think that I'm that person, you know, that's just not my style. If you have a staff that is working together, that is well-trained that answers the phone. Really well, the very first time they call you, they don't say, I don't know, let me check on that.
Let me get somebody, let me do that. They know, you know, they know what they know about all these devices. We do. They know, you know, you know, approximate cost things they can discuss with anybody. They are, you know, kind of try to be very caring for the people, meet their needs. I think if you do that, you know, you'll survive.
You'll do well. And, um, you know, that's kind of a, you know, kind of how we position ourselves as, as experts, you know, we're, if we're, if we're do it, we're an expert at it. And we try to stay expert on it. We don't buy a piece of equipment and go to a weekend meeting. That's just not how we do it. I mean, we will, uh, we will go to the people that know it the best way we'll watch, you know, every webinar video.
Yeah, we will make the trainers come back. If we feel like we have any missing pieces, uh, I will read the literature and the nurses will read the literature and we try to do it really, really well. And we don't hurt people. And that helps also, I mean, you know, not trying to really avoid, uh, any untoward effects or, or, you know, we all have our complications, but you know, try to be a safe environment where people are trusting.
It's really important. Um, and then, you know, we, we, we try to educate, we send, you know, what I do, like, you know, monthly emails on that are, you know, kind of like what we're doing, what's going on, but also. You know, educating, continuing to educate people, you know, what is, what is this, why do you want to treat, you know, the broken capillaries and redness in your skin?
What does inflammation, how does it damage it? What is the Dawn of time? You know, what is rosacea what's melasma what are these things that, uh, you know, that, that, how can you treat, uh, always trying to give them some added value in those? Not just saying, oh, we got a special on lip filler, but you know, we do look filler.
We do it, you know? Well, but if we're going to do something on the lip filler, you know, I have a little blurb in there about, you know, kind of discussing, you know, what are, what are some. Things you should discuss with your provider about how you want your and which fillers do, which things and you know, those kinds of things.
I liked staying in touch with people, uh, you know, through email, but not, not so much that, you know, it's imposing on. You're giving them just this never-ending cycle of you in our next deal or whatever. Uh doesn't you know, not that anything's wrong with that. I mean, a lot of people do respond to that, but, uh, for me, it's more just, uh, You know, we do like to have occasional promotions, you know, certain time of the year, you're going to be outdoors.
You're going to be this, or you're going to be locked up in the winter or this procedure is a great time to do this. Um, I think those things are, and you know, it's going to help that person. That's already been thinking about it, you know, make that decision. Um, and you know, people, they love some value. I think that's important, but we don't, we don't want to also do it so often that it's just people sitting around waiting for the next thing to see what comes up.
You know, if they're going to jump on it or not, you know, marketing wise, when I first started out, I held open houses. Uh, I did those sorts of educational forums where people could come in and learn about, you know, uh, an operation or a procedure. I would try to educate them on, you know, what I do, why I do it that way, why they might benefit from the procedure, never, you know, pushed a year.
And it was just an opportunity to learn about it. I gave lectures at the art museum of beauty through the ages. You know, we always have been very charitable schools and events and, you know, donate little things, Botox. So that always gets your name into the community. We did those sorts of things. Um, let's work the best.
Uh, one worked the best.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Like what, what is working now? Actually?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Well, what works now for us is, uh, We do a lot of internal marketing and we have enough foot traffic. We have, you know, televisions up running kind of little videos on different, you know, procedures or products or things that they might be interested in.
It definitely helps bring those subjects up while they're waiting in an exam room for a short period of time. Um, we do, uh, you know, monthly emails that I think we get a lot of response to. Uh, we do, we do have a company that handles my corporate Instagram, and then we have Facebook. And then we have where we assist our other providers and our nurses and handling their own accounts that are sort of, you know, also riding our plastic surgery accounts.
But it's, you know, so-and-so right in our plastic surgery and, um, A lot of people really enjoy those because, you know, they, they really, um, sort of relate to the, to the nurses, speaking to them, you know? And so, I think those have been really, uh, very good, uh, individual providers have grown their own practices, extremely well doing.
Um, you know, they, you know, we have people that are, you know, sort of our aesthetic nurse providers, us, a couple of them that have full schedules, you know, and, uh, they're hard to get into and part, they, they drive that through her social media.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Um, but I like that they stand in your name because you don't want them thinking that they're going to go off on their own and take, you know, 2000 patients with them.
They need to stay under your umbrella.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yeah. And that, that's something I insist on anybody that inside the office that has their own social media accounts of whatever it has. And I think there is a tendency that people do get feeling sort of empowered and poorly. Um, and the other thing is we're all trying to drive.
You know, we always tag each other, so there's cross talk and, you know, you gain from other, other people's posts a little bit, and it keeps it more interesting for our clients too, because they see the variety of sort of different sorts of things. Uh, we try to post a lot of before and after pictures, I think that's really important.
I mean, people want to see what can you do for, and they want to say that it's natural and it's well done. I think before and after pictures, that's hard when you're young, because you don't have a lot of patients yet, but every one of those pictures is extremely valuable. I can remember when I. First started out and I really couldn't provide them patient a before and after picture for a facelift.
So, you know, somebody had to step up to the plate and they eventually did, you know, for whatever reason. And sometimes you have to, you know, we start out, uh, you know, incentivize people in different ways to be that person. And, uh, because you got to build, you've got to build a portfolio and that's really, really important.
Um, and so early on, you know, that that's a little bit more challenge. I, you know, I have literally. No, no. I, or like can scroll through before and after pictures -
Catherine Maley, MBA: I looked at your before and after photos. They're very good. And, um, I would just say just more of them because that's what we women want to see.
Especially when you're working with the face millimeters, make all the difference and we want to see, what are we talking about here? Like, I need to know that I'm going to look fabulous. I love, we all love the photos I noticed on your website. You have this page called social on the wall for social wall.
Brock Ridenour, MD: You know what I'm talking about?
Catherine Maley, MBA: What I'm assuming the point was to keep them on your website versus have them go off onto a tangent or what was the point? I like it.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yeah. Um, so those reviews and comments and things or -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Testimonials?
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yeah, well, right. So, the social wall is just a, it's just a way to, if you don't want to go through Google or you don't want to go through a real self or you don't want to go through all the different other sort of, uh, places where those things are Yelp or wherever they're stored, they automatically pop up on our website.
And so, and cause I think just like with photographs, they want to see, not just that you've done three and you don't want to show them a hunter and either you want to show him a good number, then you know that you do this on a regular basis. And I think with the reviews, you want to see, uh, you know, the timely reviews you want to say that.
Been on the last little bit, not like a review from two years ago. And so, I think that was sort of the point of that was to show people that we're constantly getting reviews and we're constantly getting positive feedback from our patients. And, and, uh, if there's something negative, it goes up there too, but we haven't had -
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, I liked it a lot.
And then, you know what I would suggest, um, now that you're not so demographically limited, you know, I would definitely start adding more photos of different ethnicities, gender generations just everyone's welcome.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Yes, yes, absolutely. I a hundred percent. Um, you know, it's, uh, I remember the first time, uh, on a real self.
That, uh, one of my African American patients posted her before and after. And I probably got, I don't know, 10 calls in the next two weeks from African-Americans looking for rhinoplasty and that shouldn't have surprised me, but I, I kind of was like, whoa, you know, I'm sorry. I realized, you know, people want to be represented.
They want to see, you know, something that is similar to what they, they, they look like or feel like or identify with. And so, I'm in the process of that. It's, it's challenging because, you know, it was just challenging to get photo permissions. That's a whole another thing, you know, because people are afraid that you're going to, you know, kind of put them on a billboard, even though our plans are very.
Very small. We just want to put you on our website, you know, rightfully so with privacy issues these days they've got concerns, but yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, we're running out of time. Let me ask you this. How did. All of this, this leadership managing business, it doesn't just come natural. Unless you came from a family of entrepreneurs or you had a great mentor who taught me the ropes.
How did you get to this knowledge?
Brock Ridenour, MD: So, no, I, I came from a family of teachers, you know, and so nobody was really running a business. I didn't have a lot of experience with that. I think, uh, you know, knowledge, I was just voracious sort of, kind of sponge early on. I went to, you know, I, I was a very much a believer in multi-specialty training and sort of learning and, uh, you know, George Brian out there and started those early multi-specialty group meetings and things.
And I, I got myself involved in that and learned a ton. Yeah. You know, skincare and, and laser technology from the dermatologist, as well as just good surgical practice. You know, a lot of the older plastic surgeons, people that were really quite frankly, you know, uh, the most experienced and many of those procedures early on.
Uh, so that's kind of, you know, just talking to people and getting involved in little things, you know, participating and maybe a small study or doing something in industry where you get connections and you learn from people, um, and you know, from your vendors, you know, talking to your vendors, don't take everything they say is as accurate, but they still are valuable sources of information.
And then my wife was very helpful because she has really good sort of skills as far as emotional intelligence on how to treat people, how to. Work with staff, how to do you know, how to develop people. Um, and she always has been really good about insisting that I nurture and help people grow. Um, The business part, uh, you know, I have had a friend or two, I rely on one of my college roommates, Stanford business school graduate has helped me with just real simple things, you know, but they weren't simple to me, but just, uh, concepts and ideas.
And then I've had good help from the St Louis community and the business community, my CPAs, my bank people, and those folks that really helped me a bit. And then, you know, you have to work at it as well. You, um, learning from other doctors, that's where I probably have learned a lot, you know, just like what you're doing with this.
You know, some of my doctor friends are just really better at this than most, you know, why don't you do that? You know, oh my God, there are those teach about in a real estate and other things like that that are just my head. You know, I think as you get into business, you have to, by nature, put a little bit of effort into it and grow and learn and just keep being inquisitive and asking and, and learning and talking to your peers.
And it's really good. I do read like the Harvard business review. I get little tips on there. You know, they're really small little, like a paragraph tip like that. It's really, really helpful, you know, about managing personnel or sort of tidbits about how to run a small business, which is what.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the whole point if you, you know, a lot, but you can always learn those little pearls that, you know, small hinges, swing, big doors, you just, as long as you stay open to hearing it, I think what happens is we get so darn stuck in our ways as we've gotten older.
And I have to force myself to stay open and listen and say, how could this work for me? Half of the things I have learned that I have taught you surgeons, it came from another industry. I love something from another industry and say, how can we use that thing open to it? Um, so last question. Tell us something we don't know about you.
That's pretty darn interesting.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Wow. I don't know if there's very interesting. Uh, -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, we don't know anything.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Uh, let's say I grew up in a little suburb of New York city called Mount Vernon, which is famous for Denzel Washington. Who's my age, but we didn't go to school together because his mother was, was concerned about him being at the high school that I went to.
So, she sent him to private school to keep him out of trouble. But otherwise, I might've known Denzel was of let's see what else. Or be smooth, you know, the comedian, uh, he's on like a or B or smooth JB Smoove. Maybe you saw Larry David a lot is real funny guy. A lot of NBA basketball players that are famous.
We had, uh, uh, David Chase that produced the Sopranos is from, there were a bunch of people anyway. So, it's a small little Polish right outside the Bronx in New York city is where I grew up. Lot of people don't realize I'm from there. They think I'm kind of a Midwesterner because my parents were, and I don't have an accent because my parents weren't from there.
Yeah. So, and then I, uh, you know, in high school I was really, I played football, tennis, baseball, and then, uh, in college I was on the, I was technically a division one athlete. I, uh, Swim team at Yale. And, uh, I've lived in Los Angeles very shortly after I graduated college, my friend and I wanted off there with no money and no jobs.
And we thought like everybody else, uh, you know, got, got a couple of kids, got three dogs, I've got a.
I have a two right now I have a three weirdest bridge to go together. I've got a Portuguese water dog, a Belgian Malinois, and a, uh, kind of a midsize poodle. They looked like a crazy, crazy little show together. You know, I like doing things outdoors. You know, I love skiing, uh, gotten into cycling a little bit.
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I had no idea you did all of that and I will never forget you have three dogs cause I'm a big dog lover.
Brock Ridenour, MD: So -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Other surgeons wanted to talk to you, which I, you know, only if they have a quick question. Um, I do know your website is www.RidenourPlasticSurgery.com. Would that be good for them to go?
Brock Ridenour, MD: And if you, if you just do info@ridenourplasticsurgery.com. It'll get to me and where my first name, period, last name@ridenourplasticsurgery.com is my email and, uh, happy to, to help. If in any way I can, I don't know that I have that much to offer, but, um,
Catherine Maley, MBA: You have plenty to offer! Thank you so much.
Brock Ridenour, MD: Iβm flattered.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I really appreciate your time. I know we went over, but thank you so much. I appreciate it then everybody, if you would, and if you haven't done so already, please head over to Beauty and the Biz and give us a good review and subscribe. So, you don't lose out on any of their episodes. And if you have any feedback for me, you can always leave it on my website www.CatherineMaley.com or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for your time. And that's going to wrap it up for us at Beauty and the Biz. So, if you enjoy it that, would you please head over to Apple Podcasts and give us a review or subscribe to beauty and the business.
And if you've got any questions for me or some feedback, you can go ahead and leave them at my website, which is www.CatherineMaley.com or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons
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Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery and smarter marketing for new patients.
When it comes to marketing plastic surgery procedures, it takes lots of different ingredients to produce a successful recipe. For example:
- The design you use to grab attention
- The message you write to connect
- The call to action so your audience βself-selectsβ as a prospective patient
But thatβs not enough. You then select free and paid platforms youβll use to get in front of an audience, but thatβs going to take repetition to test the above to be sure you get a good return.
Phew!
Download your FREE copy of "20 Cosmetic Patient Attraction Strategies".
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast simplifies the process for you with tips for smarter marketing for new patients.
Use these first before going off on some shiny-object idea that hasnβt been tested.
Youβll get better results and save yourself time, money and headaches.
Enjoy!
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
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Transcript:
Smarter Marketing for New Patients Catherine Maley, MBA: Here are my tips on smarter marketing for new patients. Don't waste any more time or money marketing plastic surgery procedures to attract more cosmetic patients until you watch this video because I'll show you how to spend less while doubling your results. Hello, I'm Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice.
As a matter of fact, from my book, I've been interviewed by ABC news, Newsweek and The New York Times. And since year 2000, I've been consulting with plastic surgeons all over the world to get them more patients in. To date. I have produced more than $19 million for my clients using creative patient attraction strategies and have taught many practices on smarter marketing for new patients.
And I'm considered the business and marketing partner. Every cosmetic surgery practice needs to survive in this competitive environment. By the way, you're entitled to a free 30-minute strategy call with me personally, for watching this. So, click on the link below. So, let's talk about marketing plastic surgery procedures, prospective cosmetic patients have more choices now than ever before.
So, smarter marketing for new patients effectively, it really takes some strategy. So here are five. To do smart marketing. So, you spend less while doubling your results. Well, one defines your preferred patient first. Now when marketing through mass media channels, you're talking to everybody and nobody you've probably heard the saying you can't be everything to every.
All plastic surgery, patients are not created equal. You have to consider different generational ages, ethnicities, genders, social economics, as well as consumer trends. Target marketing is necessary to fully-capitalize on smarter marketing for new patients. So, you focus in order to save money and get a better result. Cater to the group you consider your preferred cosmetic surgery patients, whether it be a particular age group or.
Then learn the demographics and the needs of that group and be where they are on the internet. The news sources, they follow the blogs they read. And so on. This is important because only a certain percentage of the population will invest in cosmetic enhancement. So, they must self-identify that they're interested in your services by clicking on your blog podcast, ads, banners, articles, reviews.
Now, with smarter marketing for new patients in the right niche market, you'll be more profitable. You won't waste your effort, time or money by throwing out your message to consumers who have no interest in your services. Now here's to start with your current patients while you're waiting for your mass market media marketing strategies to take hold, implement some fast-acting marketing strategies that give you revenues.
Now start with your current cosmetic surgery patients. They already know you like you and trust you. That means they're much more likely to respond to your marketing efforts and bring you new. So, your current patients are also your lowest hanging fruit since a patient who wants to look good today will want that again and again.
So, keep in touch with them via email, text, and social media, and offer an easy way for your patients to refer their friends and family. Now, if you need help with that, check out kiss rewards, club.com. It's my own platform that works like a. Now the best referrals will always come from satisfied, cosmetic patients who were treated well and who got a great result.
But here's the secret when they do refer someone to you, please thank them and show your appreciation for their support. Because when you make someone feel appreciated, they want to help you even. Here's number three, Facebook advertising. Use your current patient email list in your Facebook audiences.
When setting up a Facebook ad campaign, this way, your current cosmetic patients will see you in their Facebook stream and that's smarter marketing for new patients. That alone may compel them to reach out to you or at least like, and share your posts and ads with their friends on Facebook. You also want to add your own patient list as a look-alike audience in your ad campaign.
Facebook will analyze your patient list to send your ad to others that mirror the similarities of your current to help you in smarter marketing for new patients. Here're four social media booths set up a corner of your office as your social media booth. Just order a customized backdrop, stand with your logo and your website on it. So, all photos and videos show your contact information in the background.
Now, every visiting patient can sing your praises to their social media friends by taking selfies with you and your. You can also interview them about their experience with you and then forward the video to them so they can upload it to their social media platforms and you can do the same. And here's five.
Lastly, track your "smarter marketing for new patients" results, ask every new patient, how they heard about you. Now there's plenty of technology to help you do this. You can code your ads, use a special telephone line, or have cosmetic patients present a message for the special offer. You mentioned in your patient emails or social posts or.
Now regularly pull reports to determine where your marketing results are coming from, because that's where you want to invest your marketing budget. Don't get. Take the emotion and anecdotes out of it and look at the numbers since they're facts not fiction. So, the point is when marketing plastic surgery procedures, it takes different messages, different formats and consistency, and a ton of repetition.
To connect with your current patients, as well as your new preferred cosmetic patients. So, you catch them when they're ready for cosmetic rejuvenation (through smarter marketing for new patients). Because if they aren't ready for your services today, they really will be three months, six months, nine months from now. And you want to be there. So, if you could use some help with this, let's talk, click on the link below to schedule a free strategy call with me to map out your own marketing plan for better results and for smarter marketing for new patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for your time. And that's going to wrap it up for us at Beauty and the Biz. So, if you enjoy it that, would you please head over to Apple Podcasts and give us a review or subscribe to Beauty and the Biz.
And if you've got any questions for me or some feedback, you can go ahead and leave them at my website, which is www.CatherineMaley.com or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
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Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery and how Lionel Meadows, MD went from practicing as an obstetrician-gynecologist to also becoming a board-certified cosmetic surgeon.
Have you ever gone down one path in life and then discovered you either out-grew it, discovered a different path that looked better or even started a brand new path?
These paths commonly include choosing a mate, a place to live and/or a career path.
For Dr. Lionel Meadows, it included a different specialty.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I interviewed Dr. Lionel Meadows. He started out as an Ob-Gyn and practiced for 10 years before realizing he preferred cosmetic surgery.
That urge for change sent him on a path of re-educating, re-tooling and building a new practice centered around cash-paying cosmetic patients.
Dr. Meadows explains how he did it and what he learned along the way.
Visit Dr. Lionel Meadows' website
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/apply/
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Transcript:
Cash-Paying Cosmetic Patients with Lionel Meadows, MD Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone. Welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how cash-paying cosmetic patients should be at the core of your business model. I'm your host, Catherine Maley author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What your patients are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now today's special guest is Dr. Lionel Meadows.
Now Dr. Lionel Meadows started his medical career actually in Ob-Gyn. And then after 10 years, he turned more towards cosmetic surgery where he grew his private practice to two locations in Buford and commerce, Georgia. Now, most of his surgeries are performed in his own state-of-the-art AAAHC accredited office-based facility.
Now Dr. Lionel Meadows is also cosmetic surgery, patient safety certified, and that shows his commitment to safety as well as ethical practices. Now he's an active researcher and educator and speaks at AACS, scientific meetings, and he trains at least one surgeon every year through the AACS fellowship program. Now his wife, Catherine is a nurse and master injector at Meadows Surgical Arts.
And we're going to talk more about her because she's very important to this whole scenario. So together, they also founded a nonprofit organization called the surgical hope foundation, and that provides autoplasty surgery to use breast surgery for women and scholarships, to local areas, students entering the medical field.
He also volunteers for trips to Ecuador to provide much needed medical care and to assist in rebuilding after the 2016 earthquakes. Now, his next mission trip is to Africa to assist in running a medical clinic, as well as constructing a school for orphaned girls. Dr. Meadows will also share with us how cash-paying cosmetic patients are at the center of his practice. Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It is a pleasure to have you.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Catherine. Thank you so much for having me on tonight. I think we're pretty much done. I mean, after that summary of what I do and what I've been doing, Hey, it's great. It's Friday evening. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to answering some of your questions.
Yes. My perspective is unique in how I wound up in the cosmetic surgery industry. So, let's go,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Please share that. How do you transition from Ob-Gyn to cosmetic surgery with cash-paying cosmetic patients?
Lionel Meadows, MD: Yeah, you know, that's a, I get that a lot, particularly when I have fellowsβ interview with me, they're like, okay, how'd you wind up doing this?
And you know, my first snap answer is always, I wasn't really a very good OB GYN. You know, and that really wasn't it. I was incredibly busy. If you look at the MGMA numbers, I was in the 95th percentile. And actually, you mentioned my wife earlier. She was given a gift certificate. This was years ago to go to Atlanta, the closest city to get laser hair removal.
I didn't think much of it. I was, you know, busy working. She comes back and she's like, you need to be offering this to your cash-paying patients. And I was like, I'm busy. I got plenty going on. No, I don't think so. She's like, okay, let's just try out a few lasers, bring them in, look at them. See, so we did, and we narrowed it down to one laser and you know, I was like, is this the, how much longer?
So, she comes to me and she's like, what's it going to take? I said, okay, fine. This was Wednesday evening at home. And I'm thinking, okay, If you can find 10 patients that are willing to get laser hair removal on Friday, pay a hundred dollars for not doing it for free pay. A hundred dollars. A hundred dollars was prior to our inflation we've had this year was still roll money.
So, Friday afternoon comes around. It's five o'clock. She walks into my office, she put $1,700 on my desk, not 10 that she had found that we're willing to pay. And she said, are we done? I said yeah, I guess so. So, it started with laser hair removal and then a little bit about toxin filler training. And you know, and it's kind of that whole story of, if you eat, you offer the patient one thing, and then they asked you have these other things.
Do you have these other things? And again, that side of the business took off and grew very quickly. I gave them one room; they were quickly into two rooms. They quickly outgrew my GYN space. So, we got them another. Locally. But again, I was busy as a GYN. They were starting kind of down at the med spa pathway and she had patients that wanted to have surgical procedures.
I was not trained in that, but she had experience and it worked for one of the local plastics groups. So, she invited them to come in and do consults which they did, but they got tired of driving after they became cash-paying cosmetic patients. So, she came to me and she was like, okay, what's the next step? So, I got training with Dr. Pelosi, which you probably know very well-respected and then as you went in and also the, the liposuction world.
So, I started with just liposuction eventually wound-up getting breast surgery training with Dr. Bob Jackson in Indianapolis wound up, taking time off, getting licensed in Deanna and ultimately little by little I grew. And in the morning, I would be seeing GYN patients at lunchtime. I'd be seeing cosmetics that. Many of them being cash-paying cosmetic patients.
Afternoon, back to GYN end of the day back to, so I had a foot in both worlds and was just running myself ragged. I was and what ultimately made the decision for me was I was actually in a cosmetic case one day was not on call and got called to the hospital for an emergency. C-section the guy that was supposed to be there.
Wasn't available. So thankfully I was kind of able to go and save the day, but I couldn't live with a foot in both worlds like that. Long-term so I started looking at the American academy of cosmetic surgery fellowships and decided if I'm going to do. Let's give some legitimacy to my training, not, oh, well you went and you took a weekend course, and now you think, you know everything.
So, I did, I shut down the GYN practice went and spent a year with Dr. English at Little Rock.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know him well, and I just will. Many, many years ago we were at a ski meeting and Dr. English gives a great talk on before and after photos and his, he did a beautiful book and he was his book was about patient transformation and he was showing great photos.
So, he would show the photo of the woman without makeup and before surgery. And then afterwards he would show the photo with her inherent makeup. And there was a debate about, that's not fair, that's not right. And he said, and he asked me, do you agree? And I totally agree. He said, women don't walk around as the actor, without makeup.
You know? So, he was showing the real life. This is what they end up looking like. And I was, I just loved him. He is. So, I'm so glad you got to spend your fellowship with him.
Lionel Meadows, MD: You know, it's so funny. He yeah, it was probably a decade ago when I was training with him. And yes, there were still some heat about, oh, well he gets his pictures with makeup afterwards.
What do you think that whole, that whole group would say now, as we look at every, doctor's got an Instagram page, they take their absolute Sunday best patient, and then they doll them up in the perfect outfit or the perfect bathing suit? And that's completely accepted if you're not doing that, you're not doing a good job of marketing yourself anymore.
And so, it's funny how something is poo-pooed in the past and all of a sudden, it's completely acceptable today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why you have to stay open-minded you may not agree with it at the moment, but you'll come around social media. I thought it was the stupidest waste of time in the world. And I have completely, we have to in order to build up cash-paying cosmetic patients.
So anyway, back to you, so how long did you juggle between OB GYN and cosmetic before you? Well, you're still in it, right?
Lionel Meadows, MD: I still, I don't deliver babies anymore. I'm still do GYN. I lived with a foot in both worlds. We started, you know, the original laser story was around 2004 and it was 2009 when I went to Englishβs.
So, I really kept a toe in both worlds for that five-year period of time. And I, although I do train fellows every year and they come from five different subspecialties, summer general surgery, summer ENT, summer facial plastics. And GYN, the GYN is duke tend to gravitate to my practice because of the fact that I have done this transition.
So, I tell that story a lot, but you know, even now I feel like my practice is, well, I think anybody's practice. You have to change. You have to accept the fact that the industry is going to change. Even if it was still in the GYN world, whole, you know, a hundred percent, the days of doing three to six hysterectomies have been replaced by an outpatient procedure.
So same thing for our world. You have to keep up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So how much of your practice now is medical or cosmetic surgery versus nonsurgical versus.
Lionel Meadows, MD: I am about 95% cosmetic these days. Really the only remaining GYN patients are, are either patients that are established cosmetic patients, or they've been GYN patients for years and years and years.
And they've been in the practice and I consider, continue to do it as a courtesy for them. Insurance within the practice, I had maintained, it got to be about 2%, a couple of years ago. And Dr. English said, Hey, why aren't you still, why are you still doing that? Because he didn't do any insurance years ago.
And even this year ran the numbers and that was down 2.02%. And finally, I told my office manager, okay. Yeah, enough is enough. So, we no longer really wound up doing a lot of insurance cases, but we offer, you know, we still do some of those GYN things for a honestly fair and probably discounted thing because.
I love those patients. They've been with me for years and they supported me when I made that initial transformation in my practice because you know, only 30% of those cash-paying patients, one of the following me when I went to the next stage. So yeah, I, yeah, there, plenty of times I just see for free because they, there is that word of mouth that is so good for my practice or okay.
Fond. They're coming to see me for the GYN issues, but they're also coming for, to visit our med spa. They're also coming to get Botox or fillers or some of my other things that do -
Catherine Maley, MBA: βCause, that's a really big deal for you to start a cosmetic surgery practice. It's certainly helpful to have this huge database, but everything's got to be realistic.
It's a different patient who was giving you an insurance card and now you're transitioning for them to give you a credit card. So, you can't, you're lucky. I mean, if you got 30%, that's brilliant because I'll bet that was a pretty good list and what a great way to get started, you know, guerrilla style, just go with the patients who already know, like, and trust you and they'll follow along.
So that's a great, if you can pull that off, that's a great way to just jump in and get into this rather than start from scratch.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Yeah. You know, I guess I have two thoughts there, first of all, you're right. Regardless of whether, how you feel about GYN is doing cosmetic procedures. You hit the nail on the head.
Those patients trust you already. They like you already. And if they were comfortable with you doing procedure a on them, and that you're knowledgeable, you know how to do that procedure and managing any potential complications, they're going to feel good about you taking care of these other things. So yes, you're absolutely right.
That really does help. The other thing is, if you look at the GYN practice, 99% of those patients are female. If you look at the cosmetic world, we're still at about 89% female, about 11% of male population in the cosmetic world. So yeah, I agree that really did make the transition easier. The other thing in the end, there's two different schools of thought on this as I'm training fellows or people ask me, Hey, how, how would you go through this process?
I said, I tell them, don't quit your day job. Don't give up that source of income that you have over. Until you've kind of established yourself in this other world here. Now, there are a few people out there to take the opposite approach is, oh, well you want people to completely forget that you are gynecologist one time and completely see you as maybe so, but not most people don't have this huge nest egg that they can take and throw at the practice until it's.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That would be so stressful. I would say, keep your day job, do the side hustle until you are until you're real clear that you're able to cover your overhead and then jump because eventually you do have to jump. If you're going to compete with the big boys who eat, sleep, and drink this, and you're just, you know, it's a hobby, it can't be a hobby anymore.
It's just too competitive. So, I just, I know it's not easy to transition, but I know you did a great job with that. So, let's talk about how did you end up with two locations? Because I have issues sometimes with the two locations it's more overhead, it's more people to manage. It's more buildings to manage more of everything and unless it's an economies of scale kind of situation, it can be a real pain in the neck trying to pull it off or do the pros and cons weigh in the favor of sure. Let's keep.
Lionel Meadows, MD: You know, my practice is a great example of what you just said in that. Be careful when you scale, you know, scale is the, is the business buzzword of 2022. I had someone come for an entry-level interview last week and said, oh, I want to scale in your practice. I was like, okay. So, you want to be the receptionist for three different practices.
But what happened with us is I actually had three locations for a period of time. And I had the Buford location, which was a wildly successful and definitely made up for the additional personnel and overhead and other things down there. I had another location that was barely profitable, but the level of headaches that came along with it made it, I mean, I, after a year or two, I closed it.
Not because it wasn't profitable, but because the headache factor. Did not offset, you know, what it was doing for the practice. So why two locations now, what makes me successful? Commerce is probably about an hour and 10 minutes from downtown Atlanta. You know, the peach tree area where it's wildly competitive.
The great thing about that location is that in 2008, 2009, when the economy was, you know, recession, depression, struggling being that far out, I didn't have as much competition. And that made things a little easier store in practice. Buford is about 30 minutes closer to Atlanta. It really is. It's a suburb of Atlanta and it, there was a vacuum.
There were not a lot of cosmetic surgeon, plastic surgeon types in that area and Gwinnett county, which is where it's located, had 800,000 people living in that county. And it was essentially in spite of it being a big area, it was underserved. So that's what made it, you know, wildly successful for us. And what's allowed us to continue.
That's been our area of growth, you know, it's going from being just an esthetician down there to Vinnie, grew to nurse practitioner. And actually, now we're up to two nurse practitioners plus I've got a doc that's coming on down on line down there this summer. So yeah, that's, that's kind of how.
Be careful when you start thinking about scaling, make sure you're not just adding to your headache, but it's going to be, you know, a, a return for that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: To the scenario because you have two locations, but one surgical suite is the goal to bring people to your surgical suite. Like everyone else is doing the non-surgical and they're leading new cash-paying cosmetic patients to you in one location.
Or are you running around to both locations?
Lionel Meadows, MD: No, I am. I go, I, to be for a half a day, a week, the rest of the time I'm in the commerce location, the question always gets to ask, well, why not build a second or down there? I'll say, okay, well now you've got two facilities to maintain triple HC certification with, you know, so every time that rolls around you have additional training, additional expense.
So, it's going to be very unlikely that I wind up adding a second surgical facility. But it's tough, you know, because right now I, I do, I operate five days a week. I've got to create or space for this new surgeon that's coming online this summer. But my first and foremost thing to do is not going to be, to put a second one down there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's just the hassle factor just keeps multiplying when you do, unless you can make sense of it. Now, what I've watched a lot of surgeons do is because a lot of patients think that they have to go to a city for surgery for like their best work. I don't know where they get that, but it's very common for that.
Your best bet is to say, but you know, there's a great because you're outside the city, you can at least get them to your surgical center. But I think you have to go with price on that one because it's not convenient for them. So, I mean, how do you make it palatable for them to. Do the distance, you know, when they didn't have to.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Thankfully Atlanta traffic helps me a time because they can come out to me and be there in 30 minutes guaranteed versus, yeah, exactly. I mean, I remember when I was in college at Emory, it was a seven-mile drive from me to work in at Rich's at Lennox. And sometimes that was a 40, 45-minute drive to go seven miles.
So, it hasn't been that toughest sell as long as the post-op care and the pre-op here can be done in the Buford location. They don't mind coming out to, to commerce for the surgery or maybe even that first post-op visit. But yeah, afterwards, as a matter of fact, they usually get, if it's a, if it's a flat case, you know, breast lift, breast reduction, facelift, tummy tuck, usually we'll put them in a hyperbaric chamber the first day prophylactically, even if everything looks great, we'll still put them in the chamber.
And those Buford cash-paying cosmetic patients that would have to drive up the next day to get. They would do it because they felt like it was better for them, but still it was a little bit of struggling. You know, it's hard enough to get a family member or a friend to drive you the day of surgery, but now you're asking them to do it two days in a row.
So, we've added a second chamber down in the Buford location. That's not an issue anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So yeah, hyperbaric chambers.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Yeah, those aren't cheap. They're not cheap. But on the other hand, you know, when I first started doing this, I had done a, a done a facelift on my mother-in-law. Again, this was 10 years ago.
Just finished it in English, this place where he does, you know, 80, 85 facelifts a year. So, we do our face and she has a tiny little dusky area on one side of the flap. And I'm looking around to see where a chamber is. Cause in little rock, you know, it's right down the road. So, there was Athens or Atlanta.
Well, so we sent her to Athens and then they were closed on the weekend. So now we're having this Carter all the way to Atlanta. So, of course she did great and healed. Great. But all of a sudden, I'm looking at, okay, what are my options? Because if I do enough of this long enough, I might have that patient that really, really needs a chamber.
And that's why we made the investment. And the nice thing is it's held up well, in spite of the fact that we use it a lot, but it's held up well. And the return on investment on that one is very much been, been worth it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, nice. I had a facelift before and I did like four treatments of the hyperbaric chamber.
And at the time I didn't know what this was all about, whatever. Cause I need it. I hit a stop date. I needed to be up and running in a very finite amount of time. I was, I think it worked beautifully. I was exactly where I needed to be on that day. And I got it because it just felt good. I felt like I was doing something and I didn't know anything about it, but it felt emotionally.
I liked it a lot. And I think physically, it helped a lot as well, but it's also, I'm always thinking marketing, what a great differentiator for you to offer that service. I know nobody else is offering that and it just shows like, and I would make a big deal out of that. You know what, you're a package or something and you know, all surgeries get this somehow market that because it's.
So, let's just talk about staff for a second, because let me just quickly run you by. He's got two fellows, a nurse midwife, two nurse practitioners, a nurse anesthetist, six nurses, ultrasound, technologist, nurse injector, scrub tech, two MAs licensed statistician office manager, marketing specialist, six receptionists, and two interns.
I happened to be his son and daughter who are absolutely adorable. So that is all a lot of people to manage and motivate. So, I would love to hear your tips on hiring, firing, keeping people doing what they're supposed to be doing. What, what are your steps?
Lionel Meadows, MD: Well, I think the first thing I need to do as far as there's two interns, the son and daughter, if they misbehave, okay.
They got to go first. So, the first ones off the ship. No, you know, it's funny as I was looking over notes for this meeting, you know, what's what, what is the most challenging thing about any business, but particularly this one, it's the staffing. And like most, you know, I guess first of all, you have to recognize the fact that not every employee is going to be motivated the same way you might have that one patient or that one employee that really is interested in being on an incentive type program and how many cash-paying cosmetic patients can I see to, to, to, to get that carrot.
Whereas, you know, I think about some of my other, other employees that I have family time, if my child has a soccer game on Wednesday afternoon at two o'clock, I want to know that Dr. Meadows is going to figure out a way for me to be able to get to that. And if. I am short, a dollar or two in my paycheck.
That's okay. So, flexibility is more important to others. So that's been, I think the thing that most of the time has made me successful in terms of keeping and managing the employees that I have is recognizing the fact that they're not, you can't put together a one size fits all package. So that's helped.
I'm certainly not here to tell you that I made it through last year without some of the same employee turnover that everybody else did. I had some employees (longstanding employees) that between the money they could make with COVID in the hospitals. I mean, taking an RN, who's usually making in our area 30 to $40 an hour and she gets paid a hundred dollars an hour.
That's really hard to compete with. The other thing that happened is people can have got used to being at home and living on a little bit less. So, you know, some of that employee turnover I went through last year, I mean, one of those nurses, she's still at home on the farm with the family and good for her.
I mean, I really miss those times outgoing, running with my daughter in the morning. So, you know, we, we went through some of that. Thankfully I was blessed by having some longstanding relationships with nurses that were in the hospital that were glad to kind of come out of that high stress COVID setting and be in more of a private practice setting.
And matter of fact, I still have a nurse that she kind of bounces back and forth between the two she'll work weekends in the hospital and worked during the week. For me, flexibility again, is important to her because she's got a child that rides a competitive motocross. So, she needs to be able to be off certain days.
So maybe that answers your question. That's just kind of me sort of freewheeling as two. What it's been like for me managing, you know, the, the 26 or so employees that I have.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I just know that that's such a big job and I hope you're not doing it all on your own. And I do a lot of consulting now with.
Leadership, you know, how does this, how does a solo practitioner float this big boat with all these people and still be the surgeon and be the leader and the visionary and the manager. And I hope you're not being the manager. Like, I think you're pretty good about delegating. And do you, I know you have an office manager.
I would say one of the big issues would be the doctors still can't let go of control often and they want to micromanage or the hoard, the other opposite. They just want to go hide in the LR and never be seen from again and hope everyone works it out, works out. Okay. But I just think if you could be the leader and the visionary, so they get where, you know, this is where we're going, and then you have that buffer between you and the staff.
So, you get to stay the good guy. And if there are planetary issues, I would rather have an HR person handle that for you or the office manager, because you just can't get, I don't think how you get involved in. You know, lives and beliefs and feelings and wants and needs.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Have you tech, have you hacked my phone because that's almost verbatim.
One of the texts between me and my office manager. Again, I was off this week, but I'm at the, I'm at the golf course with my son, huge rain downforce. So, we're under a tree in Florida trying to stay dry. And my office manager is texting me about something and yeah, that, that was exactly it. I sent her a text and I was like, Hey, look, you guys make a good decision.
I can't micromanage anything. I can't micromanage with this size again, back to our word scale that we've grown to just can't you. You've got to have quality people in front of you and Buford has grown to the point that yes, there is a practice manager. Deanna, you probably met her at the, at the Vegas conference that handles those types of things, the employee, again, the emotional things that can happen within the practice, but we're to the point that Buford has grown to the point it needs its own person as well.
Now, sometimes those people do wear more than one hat. You know, we're not a hospital where you have a head of engineering and a head of this. Sometimes they have to wear more than one hat, but the person that can't wear all of those hats and still be an excellent surgeon is doctor.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So just out of curiosity, I love that you're trying to accommodate the staff's needs for someone flex time.
Some want more money. I have never found how do you make that work? Because one thing we do in leadership is we say we work together as a team. We also celebrate together as a team. And so, I have been hitting the bell about, have fun in the practice and everyone's got to have fun. Now everyone's got to enjoy their life and, you know, working towards the why and all of that.
And I get that, but if I'm money motivated, but my, the girl next to me just wants, you know, Fridays off. How do you, how does that work out? Okay. So, I'm happy. She's happy. Everyone's happy. Or does it get.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Well, it's going to complicate, there's always jealousy. When you got that many employees, even the one that's this, you know, money motivated.
It's like, well, why does she have Wednesday off?
We have, first of all, more of a profit-sharing deal within the practice, which means that if we're all successful or the practice is successful, then we see it in our paycheck, you know, once a month as an additional bonus. So, there is that meaning that we're all in this together. And then there are individual providers within the practice, the injectors, the aestheticians that have their own that have their own incentive packages.
And even now, you know, as we look at what's going on with social media and what's driving consults, everybody's kind of got their own. And it's the hardest part is HR has to kind of keep an eye on this, the receptionist or bonus based on the number of new consults that they actually get off of the phone and show up in the office for, for an office visit.
So, you know, there's that situation, then there's the injectors, then there's the ass petitions plus globally. There's, you know, what's the practice doing throughout the year. There are a couple other things that I do. You know, black Friday the day after Thanksgiving is not necessarily a paid holiday, but if we make our October numbers.
Then guess what? Everybody not only gets Thanksgiving day, but they also get black Friday, which is pretty cool. If you're out shopping or hanging out with your family and oh, by the way, I'm still getting paid. Hey, this is cool. So, we do that. The other thing is you; you saw me in Vegas with what did that have nine or I, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you for your foresight on doing that. It seems like it's a really big, it's a huge expense to ship all those people out there. They read the meeting, he had all his staff, a big majority of the staff there. They were lovely. They were engaged. I get I'll bet you get a lot out of that for months to come with in terms of loyalty productivity them feeling like part of the.
Lionel Meadows, MD: There's two things that usually happen with that. First of all, it's cool for them to come out there, go to these lectures and, and to hear your lecture, even though it's been awhile, since you were in my practice, you know, helping us out needs to happen again soon. But the cool thing is they go out there and they're like, Hey, wait a minute.
First of all, I know that lady I've seen her videos next. Hey, we're already doing that. So, there's a little bit of affirmation of, Hey, the guy I worked for kind of does. What he's talking about and what's going on. And then we also use it as kind of a strategic planning session so that we can come back from Vegas with a list of things that we actually want to accomplish in the practice.
Now, the scary thing, I was looking over my list before, before this week off, and we've taken care of 90% of that list, but again, that can't just be Dr. Meadows. The nice thing is we come back and I've, you know, one of the nurses that was out there you know, brand, you probably remember she was wearing like this purple sequin leopard pantsuit the first day you know, brand comes back and she brings the award nursing stuff back and it's making my, or better.
Deanna comes back, she's making practice management and personnel better. So yeah, the answer is, yes, it costs money to go out there. But my experience has been it's well worth it to the point that. To the point that, you know, first of all, why didn't we take that many, we had to make our number for the end of the year to be able to do that.
But it's to the point that I'm probably going to take most of the rest of the crowd to one of the, I think it's the aesthetic show that comes up in July, same idea. I've been wanting to go to that conference for years. It was worthwhile. So again, we've kind of got that carrot out there for them that if we perform well, the first half of the year, then people are going to get to go do it.
So as long as it's worthwhile and as long as it's, we're coming back and we're making the practice better, not just purely the dollars and cents and what goes in Dr. Metro's bank account. But, you know, thankfully I'm blessed to the point that the practice has grown in it and it is successful. And what motivates me at this point is more, a matter of pride.
How well are we doing what we say and what we advertise that we're doing? So, yeah, there's the, the business and the practice management side of it, but also, you know, a certain amount of pride in.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No for sure. Now we can't get past business without talking about your wife, because she is amazing. She's an injector, a master injector.
How involved is she in the practice and how difficult I'm going to do a session one day on husbands and wives working together? I think that's a different topic, but just give me like, how's that going? Cause you've been doing it forever.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Yeah. You know, it's funny. It it's going well and you're right.
It would be a great one to do a session on because you know, there's some people that, that, you know, have this perception of oh yeah. It's the crazy doctor's wife. Yeah. I mean the, the, you know, she gets in and she's our injector that we throw that problem patient at that she's been to two or three other practices.
She's had this horrible outcome and her Botox is just a mess and going everywhere. Catherine is the one that gets that patient and has two. Take care of the emotional side of what's going on with that patient. They're scared, they're frightened, they're mad, they're frustrated. And then it has to take it and turn it around.
So that's really her role in the practice. She's always been the one that sort of set the brand and the standard for the practice, but her role these days is really, it's kind of more of a subspecialist of taking those cash-paying cosmetic patients that, that are challenging or had that out from somewhere else and, and making them feel, making them feel good.
So now where is she this week? She is in the Dominican. You talked about the Ecuador trip that we've done in the past there in mission trip in the Dominican, she's been part of a health clinic down there. She's actually kind of been in charge of the pharmacy. And so, she's been a Dominican comes back on Sunday.
I'm looking forward to it mostly because it has been, you heard my story at the beginning about the laser. It's a team effort for us. We were talking briefly about Joe Nam too, and his wife, and she's been there from the beginning. She she's friends with not only Joe, but also his wife. She's a great bridge for our practice from me.
Who's kind of the doctor surgeon. No engineering, nerdy type that at times, admittedly can be a little boring. She's very much that bridge to the rest. So, miss is looking forward to her being back home on Sunday. Alright.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love her. I think she's such a big asset and a big part of the success of your practice.
I think you're so right. She sets the standard. You can feel when you're talking to her, you know, you're going to get the best service possible, takes it so seriously. So, I love her. So just to wrap up the business, just give us one big business mistake that you'll wish you hadn't made, but you'll learn a lot from it.
Or others could learn from it without going through the same experience you did.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Wow. First of all, my office is very much an open door. Literally my office is open and sits right across the hallway from the practice management side of things. So, I, I don't necessarily mind sharing my mistakes because man, I don't want to see those guys or anybody else go through it. You know, I mean the first thing that comes to mind is it is a device and that has to do with just a matter of with devices and manufacturers and salespeople they'll promise you this.
And this particular company was like, oh, we're going to do direct to consumer marketing direct to consumer marketing. That's how people, and it was at that point, it was a very, everybody didn't know what it was. It wasn't an, a name brand thing. And well, after it had been sold and purchased two or three times after that, the direct-to-consumer marketing finally started happening.
My frustration with it was. I had to spend so much of my marketing dollars to educate the public. And this was prior to social media where you could do, you know, one post and one story, and now people know about it. So, I had to spend so much of my marketing dollars to sell that particular product, to educate people about where it, it wasn't it wasn't anything that was cost-effective for me.
So that's one. The other thing, if you're going to operate, if you're a surgeon don't operate on smokers, your urine, test them prior to their surgery, even day of surgery, and don't be afraid to, to step away. You know, they, thankfully I'm blessed. I don't have a lot of complications, but some of the more difficult ones have been in smokers in the early.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Always, and I'm always surprised at the meetings when the doctor says, you know what they said, they quit smoking, you know, two weeks before surgery. And I thought, no, I'm from Chicago. I grew up like with cigarettes and beer. And I thought, I haven't touched that in, you know, 40, 50 years. But when you're a smoker, you're a smoker, you know, it's not like a hobby you're in or you're out.
Usually, I'm just so surprised. Like why take the risk? I've seen way too many.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Yeah. And the thing about it is the risk is on both parts, the surgeons and the cash-paying cosmetic patients, and the patients tend to negate that because they want to get their surgery done. But yeah, here's where we are now. I mean, simply a urine continent test is under a dollar.
We test them on a day off and if it's positive, but you know, I go in and you'll hear all kinds of stories and you know, for me, I was like, Hey, look, you know, I'm sorry. I know it's probably just secondhand smoke from your job as a bartender and that type of thing, I get it. But you know, it's in your system and we don't want you to have that horrible complication and be out of work a lot longer than you want to.
So again, it's kind of whatever story they want to sell me. That's fine. I don't want to argue that point or even find out at the end of the day, if the nicotine test is positive, thankfully, you know, and I think even if you're even for a young, early surgeon, that's like, man, I really need this case. Yeah.
But you don't need the headache that goes along with it. Don't just, just don't do it. So, you're you know, and the nice thing is so many of us have to deal with reviews and Yelp and that type of thing. What are they going to go home and trash you online for? You know, Dr. Meadows did something really safe today.
He protected me from a bad outcome. There's not really like, can go and say, that's going to, that's going to drag you down. Or your practice down for making a decision based on cash-paying cosmetic patients. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Let's switch gears and talk about marketing. You had talked about Buford and commerce at one time, they worked very competitive or you had a pretty good grasp of that community.
How has it now, how has it changed in so many years that you started?
Lionel Meadows, MD: Well, Buford kind of had a head start because it's closer to Atlanta and had 800,000 people in it. There just wasn't enough of me to go around, to be down there that much, but still it's grown to the point that, you know, it, it alone without a doctor down there does half of what commerce does.
That's got a doctor and an Orr and all those types of things. Commerce itself has grown because of the fact that, you know, they just dropped a big battery. In the area that's making batteries for all of these electric vehicles, commerce is growing by leaps and bounds. And so, you know, that's again, it's the big city kind of making its way out closer and closer to us in terms of competition.
Because of the internet, because of social media, you, even though my competition might be in Athens 22 miles away or in the Buford location, same thing, probably 12 to 15 miles away. Social media allows those people to market and reach out into my areas. So again, you mentioned the idea of, okay, fine.
Differentiate, differentiate yourself with the hyperbaric chamber. What do you do? That's different. And I think you a hundred percent have to do that. You have to differentiate yourself. And for me, it's about, I guess, quality. And reliability, knowing that I'm going to go to Meadows and know he might not be perfect, but his complication rate is going to be really, really low.
So just like you were saying earlier, you had a facial procedure done. You didn't want to have that downtime. Who can I go to? That's going to get me a nice result, but also get me turned around so that I can get back to work. So, you know, again, great results, very, very low complication rate. You know, that's kind of what we're about in our practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, for you, you're talking about marketing, like you're talking about social media, has that been the main marketing channel or are you still like, what, what do you do now? That's working because Facebook advertising has all that has taken a real hit because of the privacy laws. And I don't know anybody who's trying to do that right now.
They've taken away your ability to target specific. Audiences that you used to be able to target. So, it's become more like this crapshoot, like TV advertising, where you just pay a fortune, throw it all out there and then hope to God. It gets in front of people who actually are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
So have your marketing channels changed or
Lionel Meadows, MD: what's working for you? Well, I mean, you and I have done this long enough to where there were the days of marketing in the yellow pages and the glossy magazines that were on the coffee table and those types of things, that's all gone. None of us do that anymore, but yes, Facebook has changed.
I look at it this way because yeah, you're right. You used to be able to boost your ads and boost your post on Facebook and you were able to be very selective in terms of where they went and that stuff, we still do some boosting, but in general, it's kind of more of a layered effect back to the idea that it used to be with marketing.
But I also look at it and I hate to generalize, but it's true. I recognize the fact that my Instagram population is one, probably a little bit younger than my Facebook group. A lot of times, like, you know, my son's a great example, you know, he's 20, 20 years old and he has a Facebook account only because there are certain people, older people, teachers that want to communicate with him through that venue.
So, I guess as we're thinking through, okay, how are we going to mark it? Where are we going with this? If you're looking at social media, then I, if it's a breast augmentation ad, it's probably more likely to go to Instagram. However, this last weekend, I mean, I had an appeal, a post that went wild on both Facebook and Instagram.
So., I look at it that way, older population, younger population, but it's not quite again. It's kind of, I hate to say it. That's a little bit more of a shotgun approach. I tell you what if I look on, look at what's working for me and it's rough and it's a little bit crude, but it's one of those places that it's always there is that when I go in for that console, first question is usually developing a rapport.
Hey, where are you from? What do you do for work? You know, just to get a little bit of information about them and to start a conversation. Third question is always how'd you hear about us because even though they might have used that super special phone number that they got through, whatever other marketing thing, we're trying to track our return on investment.
Usually, they've also talked to their friends and there's that word-of-mouth thing. So again, If you think they came in through Instagram? Yeah. It was Instagram plus their friend or somebody else that they talked about. So, for me, yeah, I it's, again, it's kind of a checking the pulse type of thing as far as what's going on with my marketing, but always, Hey, how'd you hear about us?
How'd you wind up here? Because I mean like a lot of good practices. I have cash-paying cosmetic patients that come from a good way away. So, I really want to know, you know, how in the world did that military officer from Japan wind up in my practice. So, you know, you're always curious, first of all, but also you want to know, Hey, what's working.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I want to add to that because when I consultant practices, I say to them, be careful with the referral source. It's not a straight shot. Like it used to be when they're calling on the phone and you have a really good trained receptionist saying, oh, by the way, how's you. The caller will just throw out, I don't know, internet, they'll say Google or something.
And then when they come in the practice and they start to get to know people, the answer changes. And then they say, well, actually, actually I was talking to a girlfriend and she told me about you. And she wanted me to check out your Instagram. So, then they go to your Instagram and then they get to your webpage.
So, it's not that straight a to B anymore. It's much more of an ABCD. So, I would just caution everybody to be careful with that answer because it can, it's subject to change as they say.
Lionel Meadows, MD: You know, it's interesting. I'm guilty as charged. I mean, this last weekend, when, when my son and I went down to enjoy the weather in Florida, checking in, going through the check boxes there, Hey, how'd you hear about hotel?
Well, it was the fourth or fifth question and I was like, Hey, I just want to check in. So, you know, I just clicked internet, but the reality is I had done a lot of research before I decided this is definitely where we're going to stay. So. Yeah. What, what you said, and I said is, it's not a direct a to B anymore.
It's guaranteed to be okay. B I think it's where I want to get, but let me talk to a few people that have been down this road.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know you have a social media manager on staff. Do you, do you believe everyone has to have that in today's world? Like somebody who is responsible for your social media profile, you may still be involved.
Are you you're, you're heavily involved in your social media on how are you working that out? How much of your time is spent, or how much are you able to delegate to that other person?
Lionel Meadows, MD: The daily post. I usually see in the morning when I get up in the morning, but in terms of always being involved now, on the other hand, if I go in a room for post-op visit and I have a phenomenal outcome, or I see a patient that's known to me that she's posting her great picture, she's so proud of what's going on.
Then at that point, I'll go to my marketing, my social media person and say, Hey, look, you need to reach out to Sally. She loves her results. She looks phenomenal. Reach out to her, see if she's willing to, you know, be an influencer for us. My involvement is more of a kind of keeping an eye on it, but you know, again, this is kind of where Katherine comes in because I said earlier, she's the brand.
She sets the standard for the practice. And if for some reason, the social media is venturing outside of what we represent, what we're about. Yeah, that's usually a text that's going to go direct to social media. It's going to bypass me and it just happens. So, the first question you ask is, do you have to have a social media person in this day and age?
And the answer, my answer is a hundred percent. Yes, you really do. It's a, it's a in our 24 7 world that we have these days and, you know, yes, you really do. You got to have that person. And I, and literally I'm to the point now I have a view for person and I have a commerce person. Now the commerce person is kind of more the, the overseer for the entire practice, but I got one for both because, you know, in Buford they might have a great lip filler result or same thing.
There might be a great post-op result that came in down there that I didn't personally lay my eyes on, but they're catching it. And they're going to somebody that's boots on the ground there and said, Hey, look, I'm talking to this girl. Let's get pictures. So, my answer is yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know when I talked to Dr. Joe and I on two, if you go to his website, he has thousands of photos and they're really good. And a lot of practices say to me, oh, my cash-paying cosmetic patients won't agree to that. And I said, well then how, how is he able to do it? I'll tell you what the secret is when the patient, it's the timing. When the patient is gushing and happy, he is involved because he actually does the photos himself because he knows how important they are in case the photos himself.
And then literally says, Hey, do you mind if I use these in our marketing? And then he says like a thorough say, no, a thorough say, okay, but not my eyes or something like that. And then the other third says, sure, absolutely. That's how you do it anyway.
Lionel Meadows, MD: Yeah. I agree with you. It's kind of like that gushing moment now that you know, every now and then I'm taking notes as we're kind of going through these things, because I know there's these old pearls and things that come from Catherine.
And one of them is the fact that that Joe takes those photos himself because photos in the practice are one of those things that they kind of ebb and flow. You'll have a training session; you'll get everybody up to snuff. And then either everybody that the quality falls off a little bit, or you have a little bit of turnover and all of a sudden, you've got to try and pictures again.
And even though we've got a, literally a book that says right beside the computer, you know, these are the way we want these pictures to look. If you're taking them yourself and you can't, there's no way you can take every picture in the practice yourself. But yeah, if you've got that patient that, you know, Hey, this is somebody that I I'm hoping that they're willing to let us use some pictures.
Yeah. If, if they see that you care enough about that quality, that you're willing to stand up for yourself and do it. Yeah. And I also agree with the thirds that you say you will, you'll have maybe a third that say that not really wants to use my pictures, but again, it's kind of back to where we started here in our, our, our Instagram and Facebook world, you know, there are fewer and fewer of those cash-paying cosmetic patients that are saying no, I don't want you to see my, I don't really want you to use my pictures.
Right. Yeah. Easily half are going to say, oh yeah, we'll pull the tattoo out or something like that. And then there are others that, you know, all four. Hey, yeah. I'll be happy to do a glamour photo shoot for you, but yeah, that's, that's the timing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Then that's so true now that everyone's into social media that really took away a lot of that.
Oh, I would never, this is all very private. Nothing seems to be private anymore. People seem to be very transparent about every little thing going on in their lives. So, it has to have gotten easier, but I would say I would just be strategic if you, the surgeon is involved, I would just selectively pick those photos that you're just getting a great result experience, great transformational photos and use those, you know, use your time.
To take that one, you know, you don't need to take all the photos, but I would be strategic about it. So, let's talk about your philanthropic efforts because you are very much about giving back. And I did a talk on this recently about good to great. And why are these, why are the top practices so good and so successful?
And every one of them had a philanthropic pro bono angle to their practice. And I know for a fact from that book, you know, Simon, Simeon, or sumac or whatever, you know, it's all about the Y I know your staff is watching that you're not money hungry, capitalists, you know, like you're showing that you care about the community and, and your fellow man, and you give back your time to not just money you're giving time.
Can you talk about your efforts and what, how that impacts you as well as your staff and your cash-paying cosmetic patients?
Lionel Meadows, MD: You know, it started, it started first of all, with wanting to do some surgery when we could. And at the end, the practice was much, much smaller. And we did this right after we started it right after we came on a fellowship.
So back then we gave away a whopping one scholarship for $1,000. But you know, this year, and I like this time of year, because literally on Monday, when I get back, we'll start splitting up the scholarship applications to go through those and start looking at, okay, who's going to be our scholarship winners.
This year is probably going to be closer to 20, $25,000 that we'll give away just in scholarships. So, this is a fun time of year again, back to I can't micromanage this. I mean, we're looking at five different high schools. I think it's five. It might be six this year that are going to have kids getting scholarships.
And that means we've got applications from those five or six different schools. Those had to get split up. They got split up about three years ago. And again, the staff enjoys doing that. They enjoy sitting down and it takes them a little bit of time. But, you know, again, I I've yet to have a staff member say, you know, Hey, no, I'm not, I'm not going to because we still it's a little old school, but we still haven't written an essay.
Because a lot of these kids are scraped. A lot of these kids have really good grades. There's got to be some differentiator. And a lot of times it is the essay. In terms of otherwise, you know, the staff has gotten involved on both ends of it. We take, yes, I have I have cash-paying cosmetic patients that are willing, been willing to donate.
I have staff members that have been willing to donate. And for us, it started with, you asked about GYN, every single dollar that comes into the practice. These days, that's from a hormone related GYN issue. Just go straight into the surgical home. Yeah, so they see us doing it and they, you know, I remember it was in Buford a few weeks ago.
It was a gentleman that had lost a massive amount of weight. And he wanted to have a procedure, John. And at the end of the day, the money was going to come up a little short and you know, my or schedule coordinator, she's like, Hey, look, what do you think about, I know we usually do otoplasty but what do you think about doing this procedure for this guy?
So, it's fun, you know, if you ask it's one of the things I enjoy about the practice and again yeah, I, I'm proud of the fact that we're busy and we're successful and we grew, you know, 15, 18, 20 1% over the last couple of years. But, you know, I mean, again, it's the feeling, not only that you get from that patient, but also from the staff as well, when they see something like this going on.
So yeah, it's a, it's one of the fun sides of what we do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. And are you going to go to Africa?
Lionel Meadows, MD: Africa was last. When was that? Africa was a year or so ago and things were still too tight to be able to do that from the COVID standpoint. More importantly, it was not so much getting there, but it was going to be coming back.
So, it was a little tight.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, it's on my list, but I not like the top priority right now. I'd rather have things settled down a lot, but wouldn't. I love travel. It's just so interesting. So, mind opening. So, tell me how did you learn to do what you're doing? Because you have a beautiful family, a beautiful practice, great team that love loves you.
You can see it when I saw all of you in Vegas, they respect you and you have kids that are just lovely. How are you doing that? You're pulling that together. Are you reading, studying role modeling? What, what what's going on?
Lionel Meadows, MD: You know, it's funny, it's funny. You asked that question because you know, my phone's got an old enough to where it's at least interested in what's going on in the practice.
And we were having a conversation January 1st, usually, you know, beginning of the year, Hey, what do I want to accomplish with the practice? And we were making a drive across Atlanta. So, we were talking about this and, and he asked that very question about halfway through the drive. He's like, how'd you learn about this?
I said, unfortunately, They don't teach you this in medical school. They don't teach you this in residency. If you're lucky you might pick it up and fellowship. And I think it has to do with first of all, being willing to shut up and listen. I mean, they're smart people like you, you're in, you're in practices like mine all the time that you see that are successful and not successful.
So again, kind of shut up and listen to the people that have knowledge that are willing to share. I think also kind of having a mentor type of system out there. You know, Dr. English and I are very different people, but on the other hand, as I look at his practice is successful. You know, he, you know, he gives back to the communities well, well-respected by his staff.
So yeah, it is very much a matter of learning from others around me. Also making mistakes from time to time and being willing to acknowledge the fact that man, I made a mistake. I sure don't want to do that one again. So, I wish I could tell you, Hey, I definitely read this one book and it taught me everything that I needed to know about running a medical cosmetic practice.
But I think that. You know, for me, it's been a matter of going to, I mean, Hey, I, this is not a sales pitch for you and what you do. But the reality is when we years ago, back in the old days of CD disc, you know, we wound up going down the Katherine Maley pathway. It made a huge difference, not so much in the closure rate for surgery, but getting those cash-paying cosmetic patients in the door and willing to come and have a conversation with us.
Our closure rates always been, you know, been pretty good, but yeah, I mean, don't be a, for me I'm not the first adopter, but on the other hand, I'm not afraid to invest in my employees. If that means investing via Catherine Maley or investing in going to a trip to Vegas, I'm okay with that. I, again, I've got a nurse right now.
That's wanting to work on getting her a RN certification. It's going to cost me a little bit of money to help her out with that, but she feels good about what the practice is doing. It makes us better. I added a Spanish speaking receptionist several years ago, but wanting to get her, her translation certification, I didn't even know there was such a thing, but as I see the difference in having her in the room translating and some of my other Spanish speaking people, guess what we've reached out to the other two and got them working on their certification as well.
So yeah, you know, for me spending the money, investing in my employees, if you ask about, Hey, you know, what mistakes have you been made? Have you made, usually investing in the employees has been a win for me?
Catherine Maley, MBA: I completely agree. I'm investing in people who can make you money and make your life easier. Just really is common sense.
You just have to get past that part about you're losing money. You're not losing money, your productivity and all the other good things. You have to switch that mindset about that. So, to wrap it up, give us one thing that we don't know about you. That would be pretty interesting to know.
Lionel Meadows, MD: You know, it's interesting as I was kind of turning the lights on, getting everything set up, your guitar is pushed underneath over there.
I was going to set it up on the stand. Dr. Meadows likes bluegrass, as you, as you think about the aesthetic and all of that type of thing, you don't exactly think of bluegrass and picking and drumming, but yeah, I absolutely love bluegrass. I do play guitar and you know, typically Saturday nights, not far from where we live there's a little bluegrass jam every Saturday night.
That is my idea of a good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you want to go grab it and give us a few, a little sampling?
Lionel Meadows, MD: Oh, no way. And I play it not playing tonight. No, I know. You've got my, you got me hungry at this point. You've had me working. So, I'm thinking a pizza and winding down for the evening.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, that sounds great. And it's only Friday.
You only play on Saturday, so we're getting early. All right. No problem. So, if somebody wanted to get a hold of you just to tap in or have any more questions for you, how would they
Lionel Meadows, MD: reach you? You know, I have no problem with them reaching out to me directly via email. Honestly, you know, every email that goes to the website comes directly to me right now.
I usually turn around and filter those to where they need to go. But here MeadowsMD@gmail.com. Send me an email. I do not mind. You're going to get a certain amount of honesty. Again, you're going to get the, I don't mind saying, man, don't do that. It's a bad idea. I did it one time. So, I don't really, you know, I don't mind telling others about my mistakes and encouraging them to, Hey, here's the reason why I don't think you should do that.
So anyway, Catherine, thank you. I've enjoyed this. Again, I look forward to having you in the practice again sometime soon. Absolutely.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for your time. And that's going to wrap it up for us at Beauty and the Biz. So, if you enjoy it that, would you please head over to Apple Podcasts and give us a review or subscribe to beauty and the business.
And if you've got any questions for me or some feedback, you can go ahead and leave them at my website, which is www.CatherineMaley.com or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #lionelmeadowsmd #drlionalmeadows #meadowssurgicalarts
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery and How to Make $50K in One Hour.
A typical surgeon spends 2 full days per week in βclinicβ, meeting with prospective patients who are considering cosmetic rejuvenation.
These would-be patients take up a lot of your time, not to mention your staffβs. Then you all hope they say yes so you donβt feel like this was a waste of a day.
Time is money and you too can learn how to make $50K in one hour.
Sometimes, youβre happy and fulfilled because a majority of them booked, and other days, you leave the office frustrated nobody booked and you wonder why you bothered showing up.
There is a different approach available to you that saves you a lot of time, makes you more money and it becomes a patient-attraction asset that works for you for yearsβ¦.for free.
In this weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about how your own cosmetic patient webinar brings would-be patients to you in a β1-to-manyβ consultation.
Youβll discover:
- WHY you want to do your own cosmetic patient webinar
- HOW to set it up and which technology to use
- HOW to market it, the agenda, the follow up and moreβ¦.
- LEARN how to make $50K in one hour!
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
How to Make $50K in One Hour
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and profits. Now today's episode is called "How to Make $50K in One Hour".
So, how do you learn how to make $50K in one hour? Well, you don't do it by charging more or doing surgery faster, or letting staff go just in case. That's what you were guessing. Instead, you make a quick 50 K in one hour by getting online and making a presentation to prospective patients. Interested in what you have to say now, before you completely close your mind to this idea, because you're uncomfortable talking online, or you don't know what to say.
Or don't know how technology works. Hear me out. Think of this online cosmetic patient webinar as a one-to-many consultation. Aren't you super comfortable consulting with would be patients on solutions to their problems? I mean, don't you currently live? What are you, do you listen to their concern? Do you make recommendations based on those concerns?
And then you most likely show them social proof of what they can expect. Right? Well, you do the same thing on a patient webinar to a much larger and how to make $50K in one hour. Only it's easier because they're not interrupting or arguing with you. If you're looking for a marketing strategy, that's working now to reach new patients, to fill your surgery schedule.
I promise you a patient webinar makes sense. Now we're going to look at what a patient webinar can do for you to grow your practice as well as a checklist of webinar, best practices. So here are the benefits of a patient with. Online learning has grown dramatically with so many consumers working at home and meeting online version.
A patient webinar where you can learn how to make $50K in one hour makes sense to use as a lead generation tool. That's because they're used to it now, they're comfortable with the technology. So, consumers today are used to also getting their information in longer webinar format. So, this media channel works well when you have important educational content to cover, especially with visual.
It's the one-to-many format. So, think of it as a cosmetic consultation for a big group that reaches so many more prospective patients in the least amount of time. Now patient webinars are a revenue generating event, worth many thousands of dollars to you when you get it. You want to solidify relationships with your current patients and you are introduced to new prospective patients through your marketing efforts and the attendees can spread the word about your webinar through their personal social media channels, giving you even more exposure to new patients.
Now it also solidifies your brand to help the aesthetic patient. Remember you when they're ready for cosmetic enhancement, even yourself. But like anything else in life, you get out of it. What you put into it. Now this does take effort. However, once you have this webinar in the can, it can be a patient attraction, workhorse that keeps on giving for years to come.
But first here's a patient webinar checklist to ensure you have a successful and profitable patient with. It starts with choosing a theme. Now it's vital. You get this right. Since the title of your webinar will determine the interest level for consumers to attend. Now, I suggest picking one body part or one procedure versus presenting a laundry list of your services.
That's just too salesy and too infomercial and you won't be able to figure out how to make $50K in one hour if it's like that. Like you want to approach this from an educational point. So, for example, which would you rather attend the ABCs of cosmetic rejuvenation? Or can we talk, talk, talk, talk wins hands down because it's specific focused and talking to a very particular audience who's interested in.
Now you need a marketing message with very good reasons why your patients and the public want to attend your webinar, which will help pave the way on how to make $50K in one hour. It's got to be interesting enough to grab their attention. So, fill up your message with benefits they care about. For example, discover how a tummy tuck gives you back your pre-baby body with less downtime, less scarring, less.
Let them know before and after photos will be shown. They'll hear from actual patients who have had a tummy tuck and special pricing will be offered to the attendees and then encourage them to invite their friends and share the webinar details on their social media platforms. Since all are welcomed.
Now you want to market your patient webinar because it doesn't matter how great your patient webinar. If nobody knows about it, it does take marketing effort and repetition to spread the word. So, your marketing plan should include email invitations to your current patient list. In-house signage on hold, phone messaging, social media posts, web.
Website banners, text messages social media, like Facebook and Instagram ads, and anywhere else you can think of to spread the word. Now, be sure to invite those prospective patients who came in for a consultation, but never booked and even long-lost patients who would be interested in reconnecting with you. This is key on how to make $50K in one hour.
Now you want to choose a webinar. Now the two most popular online platforms are zoom.us or go to meeting.com. What I love about either of these platforms is you have consumers register for your webinar by giving you their name, email, and cell phone for texts. Then the platform will automatically send out reminders, which I highly recommend to get you down the road on how to make $50K in one hour.
Unless of course you want to send out your own customized reminders through your own email platform, but I should say it takes a lot of reminders to make sure people not just register, but actually show up now technical glitches are common. So be sure you pick one platform and then you get very comfortable with it so you can be efficient on how to make $50K in one hour.
Then you practice with. To ensure all goes well, when you are alive, now this needs to be audio and visual. So, attendees can see you and the results of your great work and you can market it on more platforms. When you have audio and visual material. Now, then there's the webinar. You want to talk in a friendly voice and keep it simple show, lots of social proof.
So, the attendees can see your skills and expertise, and there must be a compelling reason for the attendees to do something after they watched the webinar. That's the whole point to give them the information and social proof. They need to move forward with their own surgical consult. So, think of it as a typical surgical consult, you have regularly Bach.
Think of it as a typical surgical consultation that you do typically, but it's tweaked for this format. For example, this webinar agenda works well and here it is, you would have the patient coordinator welcome via text. Your patient coordinator would introduce and credential you as the surgeon, the best choice, then you, the surgeon would talk about the process of pre and post baby tummy issues.
And then you would talk about what is it telling me, tuck, and then you would talk about the myths and misconceptions about tummy tucks, and then you would talk about FAQ for a tummy tuck, and then you would show before and after. Have a tummy tuck and then you would have live patient story testimonials from current patients who have had a tummy tuck.
So, you have them on as a guest, then your patient coordinator would offer special pricing for attending the webinar. And then both of you the coordinator, and you would do Q and a with the attendees and you would stay as long as you need. And then there would be a call to action and that. The attendees would be able to call the office or DMU direct message you on social or email you right now to schedule a consultation. This is crucial on how to make $50K in one hour.
But that means you would have staff standing by to respond so that you can begin on how to make $50K in one hour. Right. Right. Now the length of your webinar depends on attendee interaction, because it's much more important to use your time to answer their questions than to go on and on about the technical aspects of the procedure. Now it should take you maybe 20 at the most 30.
To present and do your show and tell before and after photos while explaining the patient's concerns and their results, but then open it up to questions and have your coordinator read the questions to you now regarding special pricing. If you normally charge a consultation fee, you can offer it complimentary since they attended your webinar, which further gets them on board so you can make $50K in one hour.
You can also try a $250 gift card towards a tummy tuck again, because they attended yours. You also want to design PowerPoint slides to strengthen and emphasize the points you intend to make in your script, but it should not be your script itself. You have to talk naturally. So, you want to back up your points with as much social proof evidence as possible and make it entertaining.
Think stories, patients love to hear other patient stories about their own. So, show great photos while explaining how the patient ended up in your office, what her concerns were, what you did for her and how fantastic she feels now that she got her pre-baby body back. Now, here are a couple of tips. Be sure your local and website address are updated so. you can make $50K in one hour.
Aren't every slide just in case attendees, come and go throughout your presentation. They can check out your website to learn more. And you want this webinar to live on for years. So do not refer to anything that dates it, keep it date neutral, and don't mention anything like holidays coming up. And then lastly, there's the important, here's the important part called the post webinar.
Follow up. You did the hard part and now you want to go one step further and follow up with the attendees. Now, since the attendees registered and you've got their contact information. You can send them an email, thanking them for attending and reminding them of the webinars, special pricing that expires within 24 hours or by the end of the week, your coordinator can also call the attendees to get their feedback and offer, to schedule a complimentary consultation. You'll be soon on the road to making $50K in one hour.
Then you can use the same marketing channels you use to invite people to the webinar, to now send out the webinar replay so they can watch it again, forward it to their friends and comment on it in social work to keep reaping the rewards on your "how to make $50K in one hour" efforts. And it will now live forever on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Vimeo, and your website. So, it becomes a patient attraction lead magnet automatically.
So, as you can see patient webinars take time and effort, but can be an excellent way to attract new patients to you as well as current patients who want to help you make $50K in one hour. Okay. And that was short, but sweet. I hope you got a lot out of that. Please do me a favor and head over to Beauty and the Biz, and please subscribe and, or give me a review if you feel so inclined.
And then if you've got any feedback or questions for me about how to make $50K in one hour, or anything else, feel free to leave them on my website at https://www.catherinemaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @catherinemaleymba. That's it for now. And we'll talk again soon.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #howtomake$50Kinonehour
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery and Joe Niamtu, DMD, who works 4 days a week and went from meager beginnings to driving a McLaren.
After working with cosmetic surgeons for 22 years, some really stand out as exceptional.
They go above and beyond to hone their craft, teach, speak, give back and overcome obstacles, all while being a good human being.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast guest is Joe Niamtu, DMD, cosmetic facial surgeon in private practice in VA.
He did not hold back and gave pearl after pearl. Hereβs a sampling of what we talked about:
- Staff being the biggest challenge and how to hire, fire and motivate them
- Unhappy patients β how to spot them beforehand and how to deal with them after the fact
- Before/After photosβ how did he get over 10K photos when other surgeons canβt?
Dr. Niamtu figured it outβ¦
He works 4 days/week, charges what he wants and only works with patients he feels good about.
He also has a money-making system set up to include 7 oral maxillofacial surgery offices that allow him to focus on cosmetic surgery, while supporting the care of his special needs children.
Dr. Niamtu is a true inspiration and greatly admired for the work he puts into living a full life.
Visit Dr. Niamtu's website
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βοΈ STAY UPDATED!
- Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
- Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
- Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
- Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
- Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
- Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
- Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
- Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
- LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Work 4 Days a Week, with Joe Niamtu, DMD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to work 4 days a week. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. And today's special guest is very special because I've known him for a very long time and he's very hard to track down.
So, it is Dr. Joe Niamtu. Now he's an internationally known cosmetic facial surgeon, teacher, and author in private practice in Virginia for a very long time. I think it's 1984. Now he has lectured and teaches all over the world. He has written hundreds of publications. Seven textbooks and even 30 chapters to other textbooks. All of this and he still only works 4 days a week!
Now he's very active in the AACS and that's where I met him. And he's pretty much an icon in that organization. And he's appeared regularly in magazines, news, print, and TV. Now, Dr. Niamtu is also very committed to numerous charitable organizations to help third world children with facial deformities as well as women dealing with domestic abuse.
So, Dr. Niamtu welcome so much to Beauty and the Biz, It is a pleasure to have you.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Good to see you. I seven textbooks. You've got an old bio, but -
Catherine Maley, MBA: You've got to be the hardest working surgeon I know.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I'm the hardest searching work, hardest working surgeon. I know you're the hardest working person in what you do as well. You're everywhere. And everybody knows you actually, you know, you're like, Cher or Bono or Sting you just say, Catherine people know you're talking about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and that's, and that's why we're talking because it takes marketing and business to be good at surgery.
And so, I'm here to help you surgeons get good at the business and the marketing side and hopefully, learn how to work 4 days a week. So, you can do your surgery. I'm going to help you with the other side because they're both, they're all important. So, can you go ahead and describe your practice? You're in private practice in Virginia, it's super competitive, but why don't you just describe your practice and how you're set up? And who's in the practice
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I've been doing cosmetic surgery for about 21 years. I practiced longer than that. My background, my residency is an oral and maxillofacial surgery, and I always had an interest in. Trauma and facial reconstruction. And during the 1990s, mid 1990s, a lot of things happened, Botox, fillers, liposuction, laser endoscopic technique.
And there were so many things happening in cosmetic surgery that, you know, people who've been in practice forever didn't have that, that training. And so, I started getting involved and I really liked it. And I felt I was good at it in 2004. I moved my practice efficient surgery. And so, it's been a good run here.
And I, I feel like I'm at the top of my game right now. I don't say that area, you know, of anybody that knows me, knows that I'm not arrogant. It's just when you do something long enough and you work hard enough and you're passionate enough, it kind of all comes together. So, I'm at that place where I can work.
I work 4 days a week that works well because by Sunday, I'm excited to go to work Monday and get my, get my fingers wet. Okay. So, I'll do this as long as I have that feeling. And again, I have a mature practice and believe me, I went through all the bumps and lumps and hard knocks that people do.
And I'm at a place now where I can, like I said, I can kind of work the days that I want. I can see the type of patient I want. I cannot see the type of patient I don't want. I can charge what I want. And I think when young practitioners, restorative practice, hopefully they have a vision. I mean, if you go up to any doctor, who's just starting.
If you say to them or their staff, what's, what's your vision, 2020. If they can't answer that, then they're not going anywhere because it's like a roadmap. If you ran a marathon, you'd have to know where the finish line is. And if you don't have a. Then you have random chaos and that's what takes down so many practitioners and, you know, football teams go and quarterback calls a play and everybody knows what to do.
So that's kind of like a mini vision. Their vision is winning super bowl. So, you know, my vision was to have a full-time cosmetic facial surgery practice and to the things that I, that I really liked. And she could kind of patients that I liked and back to what I was rambling on. So, if you ask somebody their first day of practice, where would you like to be in, you know, five years, 10 years, 20 years I'm at that place.
And again, I know that sounds arrogant, but it's been a hard, hard journey that I've been passionate about. And it it's a good feeling. The problem is by the time we get to that a lot of people, you know, I'm retired, but I want to do this. And as long as I can working 4 days a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: that's the holy grail to do what you want when you want to do it, charge what you want and work with patients that you really want to work with.
That's it? That is the whole point. So, can you give us a few pearls? I know it took you 20 years to get there, but any, let's just start with this when you're not at work. Are you the only revenue generator or are you set up to make money when you're not there?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. So, for the last four years, I have trained my nurses to in jail prior to that, I was the sole revenue generator.
And you know, I still am surgically. I mean, But injectables, you know, are good part of my practice, but my practice was 90% surgical. And I always say if my fingers are bloody, I'm not producing revenue. And that's true. Did you
Catherine Maley, MBA: Ever think about adding associates or somebody to help take some of the slack off the surgical so you can work even less than 4 days a week?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. So, I have, and lot of my friends have fellows and residents and that sort of situation, and you have to let them operate. Okay. Otherwise, they're not going to get experience. And you know, one of the first things that my patient asks is who's doing the surge and also, I'm kind of a lone Wolf.
I've got a lot of journal articles and publications, which I usually do by myself. We have a large practice on the oral and maxillofacial surgery side. They only do oral and maxillofacial surgery. I'm in a separate location. I only do cosmetic facial surgery and I've kind of trained a couple of those guys possibly to do this.
But, you know, it's, it's really hard to find somebody that has. And there's a lot of people that want to be cosmetic surgeons or, or whatever or nurse injectors or assistance, you know, where are you going to call it? You've got to have the passion. And so yes, I'm the only revenue generator in my practice.
I have a couple other little side business hobbies. I teach courses at my office. I have an online video series. For a position, but that's, that's kind of hobby money. Any serious income comes from me with doing surgery Monday through Thursday. Okay and that's where I work 4 days a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So just, can you give us a couple tips on how you got there?
How did the point where you can charge what you want, see who you want and work where you want?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. You know, you'd have to be unconditionally and many people see somebody who's successful in anything and same thing, what you do. And, you know, they think that the person just woke up one day, it was handed to them.
They have no idea. So, number one, you have to be passionate about what you do. And that means that you're going to be unconditional committed, even if you can get to work 4 days a week. That means you're going to be committed to do things, whatever it takes to get your practice to where it needs to be. And you're going, you know, that may have included working Saturdays.
It certainly included, instill, influence, coming home from work and doing my own social media. It includes treating patients better than anybody else. I mean, every patient has always had my cell phone. I am so sensitive about how patients feel about me and what their experience is in our practice. And you know, the road to getting here starts one drink at a time and you have to be, you know, what did they say available?
That's number one. You have to be affable. You know, you got to be a likable person. You got to be able to relate to your patients and you have to be able, you have to have ability. In other words, you have to be good at. And all of that just comes by, you know, largely a trial-and-error process. It's a very competitive industry.
And you know, there's a lot of competing specialists that I think eat their children, eat their own, whatever, whatever we say, you know, and it's unfortunate because there's plenty to go around for everybody. And that's always been something when I see a doctor that talks bad about somebody that that's just their own insecurities.
So, one thing that I've done is ignored the haters because I don't care who you are. You know I just saw a thing the other day about lady Gaga, you know, I mean, so, you know, the Beatles, everybody have haters that the better you do, the more jealous people get. So, you ignore them, put your head down, you decide what your vision is and you don't let anything come between that, but it takes incredible work and incredible availability.
And, you know, every year you could do better and better. And, you know, I mean, there's, there's hard knocks to you. Maybe at first, don't understand what may constitute a bad patient or somebody that's going to be a problem. You know, you learn how to see red flag. You've heard me lecture about that, and I've heard you lecture about that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So just on that, because your talk on that is really good. You want to just give a couple of tips on how do you handle an unhappy patient while you work 4 days a week? And the, your issue is kind of, I think bigger because you're doing facial surgery body, body surgery. It's important, of course, but it's easier to hide.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah, you can do mediocre at the face there's nowhere to run.
You have, you have to do well and you know, Sure say they don't have complications or humble down to earth successful people. And they're going to tell you, yeah, of course, you know, you have a problem with patients or situations that need revisions, but handling the unhappy patient. And for some reason, this is one of my more popular lectures.
First of all, you have to identify cosmetic surgery is elective. Nobody needs it. Nobody's going to die without cosmetic surgery. And so, when you see people that, that sends you and you know, so much has changed just in the years that I practice with the ability to you know, internet based on zoom, everything, but when a patient contacts you and they're overly concerned about some insignificant thing, you know, they have a couple little crow's feet wrinkles and they tell you they can't go out of the house.
Something like that is a really, really big red. Young patients that want older patientsβ surgery is, is frequently a red flag as well. Patients that don't smile and aren't trending. Okay. They're just some people that, you know, they're just kind of deep and, and that's their hobby. And if you talk to their kids, teachers or their neighbors, they're going to say, yeah, there, there are difficult patients that won't listen, won't let you talk.
They interrupt patients that tell you what surgery they want, right. Because they're on the internet. I want a high mass activity, whatever patients that really think are important, they're actors, or, you know, they, they don't want you to take pictures of them or they try and bypass your normal protocol patients that aren't reliable or dependable.
They're late. I mean, Goes on and on and on and having the ability to recognize that is paramount. And I liked that lecture because I can tell younger doctors, you know, what I learned the hard way. And other people told me, because, you know, you need, I don't care what you do. You need a mentor. Right. And that's why, I mean, I lecture I've lectured on six continents.
I lecture all over the place and I enjoy it. But my favorite lectures are talking to young people that are just getting into this because they're, they're like a sponge they're very impressionable and you can tell them, you know, it's almost like if I drive down the street and my I have a pretty fan, I liked cars, cars, but I certainly have, and if I hit a big bottle and break my.
That's terrible, but so I got the knock there, but if I can tell other people, Hey, don't go down that street. Cause there's a big bottle. You know, it's, it's the same analogy. So, you want to find happy, fulfilled patients that are doing the right procedure for the right reason and have stability in their life.
You know, patients that come in and they can't afford and, you know, listen, believe me, I grew up with six people in an 800 square foot house. You know, I don't add, didn't have the things that I have now. And I worked very hard for them, whole family. Did you know, my grandparents came here, didn't speak English.
They immigrated from Romania on one side and Italy on the other side. And I have that immigrant work ethic. All right. That's one of the topics or your previous question, but in any event, you know, patients who can't afford it their health history doesn't allow. Gosh, we could talk all day just about red flags when something is off, something just doesn't seem right.
Another thing is don't operate on somebody you don't like, and you know, we're all human. Sometimes you have patients that there's just such a handful, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, they're unpleasant. So, you want to just use your staff as well?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I learned the hard way to listen to them. There were times when I said, Hey, I wouldn't touch that patient.
They'll be okay. They'll be okay. So yeah. And again, back to the roadmap of success, you know, having the right staff, which is where we get into the business side of this, you know, that's one of the biggest challenges, but it's also one of the biggest rewards. So, like I have patients that are mean to the front desk.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Nice.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: okay. That's one red flag. You call the office, you talked to the receptionist. Then you come in for an appointment, you interact with that nursing staff, and then you interact with the coordinators and schedulers. And if two of those people flag that patient
Catherine Maley, MBA: and other women's bad behavior quicker than you can probably. So, I would do,
Joe Niamtu, DMD: at least my practice is 85% female and my staff is a hundred percent. And so yeah, they're more, probably more attuned to that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, regarding staff just currently right now, I don't know what's going on in the world, but I've used to be a killer HR kind of part-timer I could find you as a coordinator, like no one's business or a receptionist, because I love to find them and then train them for you too.
So, you have a professionally trained person representing. This past year has been ridiculous. Have you found that you can't find people or they're leaving or they're unreliable or any of that happening over there in Virginia?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: When we, when we look back in whatever, five years, 10 years, a hundred years about this virus that went through the world it changed everything physically and mentally.
A lot of people didn't work cause they got paid for not working.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. That's amazing. That's going to come back to haunt them because there's a really big black hole there for two years, three years, if you say so what have you been up to? Oh, I was taking care of my mother all of a sudden.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Right, right.
And you know, the hospitals suck all the nursing and a lot of healthcare workers. They were needed so badly in some of them have like local pendants where they could go work in Texas or whatever for incredible wages. So, we'll probably get you a major, but I have two severely disabled children, cerebral palsy, and each, each side to my two songs.
Each one has around nursing. And the home health is, you know, it's dissipated. I mean, it's just, we can't, you know, it's really hard to find nurses. And so, my, my wife is having to do all these nursing shifts without she's not verus, you know but without notice, I mean, you know, she may work 24 hours in row the next day, you know, somebody calls off at the last minute.
So that's been very difficult when you work 4 days a week. The restaurant that I'm going to this evening, they just, it. They couldn't, they didn't have people to work. It's a crazy situation. And I've heard a lot of people talk about, you know, why it is. Some people just decided they could work virtually other people decided this is a good time to find another career, but there's that missing gap that you just talked about?
I don't know where the hell they are, you know, I mean, because there were people that had jobs before, so hopefully they're coming back into the situation.
Catherine Maley, MBA: By the way, did you hear about that app and I'm not here to promote anything, but there's an app that you can find a nurse quickly. It's kind of like Uber for nursing and surgical staff.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I don't think I have, but you know, again, you got to find the right person. And medical practices, doctors have a very unpredictable employee because it's largely young females are, are available and they want to do really unpredictable things, like get married and have babies, or they get engaged and move or something.
So, it is a little instability with that group and finding the right people and keeping them is huge. But to underline what you just said. Yeah. It's really tough for any business to find right now.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you say staffing is probably one of the biggest challenges to running a solo practice?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: When I lectured a residence and that you know, used to have a Blackboard or whiteboard or a flip chart and I'd say no.
Okay. What are the, what are the biggest problems you're going to face you a practice? Right, right. And what they did, and it was like insurance losses, income, bad debt to note your own biggest challenge is staff finding and developing right. Staff, keeping them and hiring and firing, which you know nothing about.
So yeah. Staffing is a huge challenge, regardless if I work 4 days a week or 7.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Any pearls to help with that?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: A lot of pearls - especially on how to work 4 days a week. You know, when I started out, I had two people, one surgical assistant and one front desk person. And the other part of my practice, which I started hoping, you know, we have a hundred employees, so we have a CFO, we have seven offices, so we have a manager in each office, but again, I'm in a different building.
I have nine staff. All right. So, my first. Probably you need to find somebody to be a good manager. If you have enough people that you do that because doctors are not good at dealing with staff issues because they're emotionally involved and it's like fish, can't see water. Cause they're in it. And doctors want to be good guys or good girls, and they just don't have a business acne.
And you know, this is a real litigious area, as you know, I mean, you know, you can give me two really easy and not just, you know, me to sexual Amanda, but just so many things where, you know, doctors or any successful students is a deep pocket. And you know, somebody can see that as a lottery ticket. You know, wrongful discharge, so many things that you can fall into a trap.
So, as you can afford to find somebody who's good at that, that has some HR background, then you let them be that off. If you want to talk now or later about hiring, firing.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, we should do it now because one thing I've learned, I did a talk recently on the good to great, like what makes a great practice versus a good one.
And 10 out of 10, they had a right-hand person who handled that part of the business. Right? All the HR stuff. They stayed the good guy. The man at the manager got to handle all the crap and this one that just bogs you down and you don't need to be, and this is part of the secret on how to work 4 days a week.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I did it all at first. Now I, I'm not involved in hiring and not involved in firing.
I mean, when we hire somebody. I get to meet them, but so, all right, let's talk about higher, right? So, what do I look for to help with your goal of being able to work 4 days a week? Well, you know, it's just kind of like the patients we were talking about. You want to look for something that's joyous, unconditionally committed and not just committed to you, but committed to the success of your practice.
So, if you come in and you're in a bad mood and be in an ER, they're committed to you, they they'd say, yeah, that's right. It is terrible. You know, if they're the practice, they're going to bring you up and say, doc, you got a smile. People are going to read that negativity. You have to be presentable. They have to be willing to learn.
I keep going back to joyous, you know, fulfilled and smiling. And obviously you can't hire everybody who has the Barbie doll line, but you know, a lot of people. That we talked about, you know, they're maybe financially strapped. They may be going through a divorce. There's a lot of things that play into it.
So, stability is really important. Hiring somebody that's supposed to your office for. An hour and a half away. And if you had a hematoma or something, you know, they could say they couldn't come in there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's literally the first question I ask, let's talk about your commute. How far, how many miles are you from the office?
Oh, no problem. I'm an hour away, but no problem. It's a problem. You know, I want them close. I want an easy, convenient, and I'm the word I look for is I want them to have that likability factor. You know how you meet some people they're not Barbie dolls, they're not gorgeous, but they, you just love them.
They have such a great aura about them, that kind of an employee we'll just, we'll bring sunshine instead of
Joe Niamtu, DMD: they will. And I'll tell you, I have an employee that's been with me on and off for about three years. She's currently on, she just, she's got a free spirit. She'll move to Florida and moved back. So, she never is off because of the negative reasons, but, and she's, you know, 62 great mix.
If you have some young employees, cause they're. Impressionable. And they're so excited and they're, you know, in terms of nurses, they're very contemporary and then to have some over employees, and this is an old guy saying this, right? Because they have wisdom, the flavor of your practice can make a difference.
So, I have friends (who work more than 4 days a week) that they have injectable practices and, you know, they treat the Kardashians, you know, young, young people that want fillers and Botox and aren't have to talk in Instagram. And, you know, I have a facelift, most of my patients are old. So, to have that mix of age group is important and diversity is important too.
That's just, I think a big thing in hiring and firing and always has been.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Although, when you have a facial plastic surgery practice that you work 4 days a week, I would skew to the more mature staff being of a mature nature myself. It is difficult to have a coordinator who's 25 years old and I'm talking to her about my, you know, my emotional leads of wanting to look better.
You know, I it's, it's more difficult to connect, so I like that you have a variety there. Yeah.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: And in that version, you know, it's great to line up your staff members with age-appropriate patients. I think that helps, but I'll tell you sometimes they, the younger people hit off really well with older patients and vice versa.
Again, it's just hard to get people in general, younger or older, and the younger patients, you know, again, they have children at home that can call off more, you know, it's just, there's just more.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, what element I think is missing in a lot of practices that I think we need to introduce, and that is, and I know I hate to use the word fun, but whatever you want to call it especially after COVID most practices got super busy and had to work more than 4 days a week and it became very intense and the environment has been more like a pressure cooker than it used to be.
And now we know that's not going to last forever, but while it's going on, a lot of staff is not used to working under pressure like that. So, do you take the time or have you figured out how to get everyone to exhale and work together, but then play together or celebrate together? Is there anything you're doing to keep them motivated so they don't leave?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. So, I've always said you learn from your losses and you celebrate your victories, all while I only work 4 days a week. And you have to take care of sometimes financially, the bonuses we bonus our staff during COVID the people that stayed in work. We have employee appreciation things that we do that building events, where we all participate.
It may be going through a pistol range or racing go-karts or going to an amusement park at Christmas. So, we try and do that orderly. You know, you got to be careful also, you know, we can get to the firing part of this. You want to be friendly with your staff. You don't want to be best friends.
And you know, these are your work lives and you spend more time with them than you do at home. And, you know, you can have fun. We usually have. But, you know, what I do is serious and we also sometimes do our own anesthesia. I'm licensed in that state of Virginia. So, you know, surgery and anesthesia for the life and death situation.
So, you got to have fun, you got to be serious, but at the end of the end, you know, there's going to be days while you work 4 days a week when I'm sure there's going to be days when they're short, but at the end of the day, or at the end of the week, everybody should be smiling. And I think that's what, that's what usually happens.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good. Just give me after all the years you've been at this, and if the younger people are listening, give me a mistake that you could help them avert.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Well, getting too friendly with your staff. You know, I used to have parties at my house for my staff and, you know, then somebody gets drunk or something and then they're fighting with somebody else.
Again, you wouldn't be friends. You don't want to be best friends. W we'll start on the thing of fire in here. Okay. So, the first person I fired, I sent flowers to, I felt so bad. Okay. Well, that's not how you do that. Okay. Second person that I let go, came back and said that I pushed him against the file cabinet or something else, which that never went where coincidentally, I had three people in the same family, big mistake.
The ancient Romans knew don't steal from your office. Of course, they worked more than work 4 days a week. Don't have two sets of books. Don't hire a relative. Don't hire somebody. You can't find. No don't hire achieve to do an Indian's job. Okay. So those are all mistakes, probably everybody is made along the way. So, I've talked about hiring what to look for.
Let's talk a little bit about firing. So first of all, that's not something that doctors should do. A doctor hiring and firing is like driving without a seatbelt in a way. No, because you might not get hurt, but if you do, it can be really bad. And in today's climate of business climate, you're just open to too many things.
And so, firing someone is a hard job for doctors and probably many people. So, in my practice, I, somebody needs to be a 900. Okay. On a scale of one to gender and they're not going to work out and I've let go of people that were six, but they may have been a 10 and Joe average practice. Okay. My practice I'm striving for excellence and I demand a lot from my employees, but no less than I demand from myself.
And so, you, you have these, these people that are starting out a lot of times, it's their first job and, but it just not working. Okay. And you have to find it. And it's very hard because you're emotionally. Whereas the human resource person, they go to work now or somebody, they fire somebody. And I tell this HR person too, if I was lecturing.
So, when you let somebody go, first of all, that's going to be a tough thing for them as well. I mean, I, I got fired from one of my first jobs as a car house. It crushed me because all my buddies worked there and all the girls from high school would come in, but any, you know, I was fired basically because I was missing time in any event, nobody wants to be fine.
And so, you've got control of it and it's possible only working 4 days a week. Okay. And you've got to be careful. You couldn't give you talk so much about. And I learned so much, there was a company. I don't know if they're still in business, but it was, it was called Kendrick Mercer then was called Mercer. And I learned some of the best practice man.
They were in Santa Barbara, California, and I learned some of the best. Some of the things that I talk about, you know, some of these pearls I learned early on, but so you got to let somebody go because it's not fun for them. It's not fun for you. And what I do, you're going to give me so many times again, use the word vision.
I tell them that I think you're a tremendous person and I think you'd have a lot of talent, but you are not going in the same direction. I am towards my vision. Okay. And nobody can argue with that. If I tell somebody, well, I'm firing you because you were late 10 times, they can say, well, Sally was late.
You didn't fire Sally. And what if I just tell somebody that we're not going in the same direction, they can't harm when I was doing it, or I think it's a good idea. You do it on a Friday afternoon. No. Give somebody two weeks because you're giving somebody two weeks to sabotage you or, or get your charge or whatever.
And people do that. No, Friday afternoon five o'clock was in my office. Listen, sorry. This isn't working out. I think you're wonderful. First. You're not following my vision. I need credit cards. I need the keys. Okay, cool. Another problem is letters of recommendation. I wrote her a letter of recommendation for a patient dialect though.
And I got a letter from attorney saying that, well, she was so good. Like your letter why'd you fire her. And again, heavy is the head that wears the crown. Okay. So, none of these students have ever gone to fruition, right? They weren't even students. They were somebody trying to ruin kind of extort you, you know?
And they, they just, you know because they were frivolous, but we learn a lesson from them. So, in our practice, if somebody asks for a letter of recommendation, unless it's somebody that was really, really good and they moved or something like that, then I would give them an extremely flowery letter of recommendation.
But otherwise, we just say, you know, especially if somebody's been fired a hundred percent, say they worked different this day to this day. That's what I'm saying. And if somebody was calling me and I thought that they were getting witness person, I would say, I'd love to give you a recommendation. But my attorney is, is giving me advice, not to comment on this patient.
That pretty much tells the story.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, would you say staffing is your biggest mistakes made or are there any other like a lot like another big mistake is I wish I had bought the building. I worked in for 20 years, you know, instead of putting it, do you have one of those mistakes?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Okay. And it's, you know, this stuff is like, like a scale. So, when you first go to practice, staffing is a, you know, it's a big problem. And then as you, as you get experience, it's less of a problem and something else, a problem is a problem. Whether it's you know, patients that debt I have bought the buildings and all my partners, again, in the global practice, we own our, all our buildings magic.
That's a great move because that will provide retirement money after you retire. And it's, you know, it's crazy to pay rent that, or I wouldn't have bought my house. So, it, it. And the current environment, I think that that's still stands. You know, listen, I've made mistakes in handling patients. They were unhappy and I got mad at them, not so much that I got mad at them.
I did listen to them and I was so serious about trying to do well if they were mad at hurt my feelings and, or even if they were totally off base, I ended up arguing with, and that's the worst thing that you can do. Okay. And Jonathan sites, I'm sure, you know, in my, my new textbook cognitive facial surgery, third edition, it's going to be released by Elsevier in may here.
Nice. And that's remained one of the largest medical books selling books on Amazon. So, I'm proud of that, but I I've got some really good. Contributing authors. John Sykes is really good at that. He has a great chapter in my book about reflective listening about, you know, a patient saying I'm unhappy because I have extra skin half my face.
No, you know, you have this or okay. I'll we can fix it tomorrow and they cut the patient off. They're not listening. All right. And sometimes I'm happy patients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: They just want to vent 80% of the time. They just want to complain and that's okay.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: And it's human nature. And I'm so sensitive about my brand and my reputation that I get from, you know, emotionally involved, and it helps only working 4 days a week.
And they can sense that. And when in fact, you know, you've got to sit there and one of the things that John says, and I've got, I made some great pictures of this in my book when you're seeing a new patient and you're in the selling mode. Great. If a non-medical person looks interesting. Oh my God, they're talking about profit in that this is medicine, you know, profits, not a four-letter word loss and any successful doctor has to have a profitable practice.
So, when you're in that introductory mode, you need to be big room. You need to be up there. And hi, I'm Dr. Niamtu and I've done 1500 facelifts and I've been, you know, not overbearing in that presence,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Knowing your breath,
Joe Niamtu, DMD: you have to be smaller. You got to be tiny and shriveled up and listened to them and not be arrogant or not, not arrogant, but not be in that big brand mode and this is part of the secret to only work 4 days a week.
So, listening to the patient, and one of the things that really, I learned from one of my managers, she would always go in and shit, those patients, she would, she would live. And then she'd say, what can I do to make you happy? And that's what I do. Some people just want an apology, you know, I'm really sorry.
You're feeling that way. Or I'm sorry that we have to redo this. I know it's a hassle, but you know, its surgery, it's not an exact science is mother nature that they want a little bit of a piece of you, of your time, face to face, or just hear you say other people they're scared. They want to know what's going to happen.
You know, you did this face back here. Okay. So, wellness, I'm going to take care of. Okay. And they want to know it's going to cost them. Okay. These are things that should be all have been discussed preoperatively in a mature practice. So, they just want a solution. Okay. And then there's that very small group of people that you're never going to see.
All right. And once every two years I'll refund. And, you know, knock on wood. I've never had a catastrophic anesthetic or surgical situation, but you know, when you, when you do up to 6,000 eyelids, I've done 1500 Traceless. I've done, you know, not, you know, 15, 20,000 cosmetic procedures. You're going to have, you know, you can have things that you need to correct or things that didn't go the way you want to.
And if you can't satisfy our patients or if you want that patient out of your office, out of your life, sometimes you have to cry. Uncle I'll gladly refund them if they have, for
anybody listening, not to ever, ever refund anybody without having even a happy patient sign, a waiver saying that they, they hold you harmless. They won't anywhere. Right. And you know, does that stuff, is it iron plaid waterproof in court? Probably not, but I've never had any. No, I've had some people say, well, I'm not signing.
Okay. Well, you know, I'm sorry we can't refund your money. And then they now one of my friends eat issue, the refund check. It had the reason they signed the release. Okay. And you know, I've had some patients that I've refunded just because it wasn't, you know, they didn't want me to operate on the gem and it wasn't fair.
I didn't get the results I wanted. I didn't want to keep their money. And, but usually honestly, it's just, you know, and not having patients, we probably can't make them happy and it's just better if they move on and you move on
Catherine Maley, MBA: and you don't need a two-year drawn out in courts. And oh my gosh, the energy that would take, I would say, just make that go away.
If you can, as quickly as you can.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I have only consumed one time in my career before I was doing cosmetics (before I discovered how to work 4 days a week) and we were victorious. Every doctor should get. Okay. You guys, you know, some doctors they're like, well, whatever, you know, the patient that had complication the patient posted negative review, and they're going to see the doctor.
I didn't do anything wrong. I am not refunding their eyelid surgery. I'm not doing that in about the fifth day of depositions when you're out of your practice. And some lawyer is telling you how bad you are, you know, you're like, oh my God, that was $5,000 I could have given them. Oh, gosh, there's so much to talk about in terms of that kind of stuff.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, can we switch to a more fun topic like how in the heck you're able to only work 4 days a week, as well as marketing. Yeah.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: And what are the things that I'm best at? Besides only having to work 4 days a week?
Catherine Maley, MBA: You're really good at marketing while only working 4 days a week. So, I remember before you used to be everywhere, you are in every marketing channel. So how do you do it now? How do you market in today's world? And I love that you specialize because what I normally would say as well, how are you differentiating in such a competitive environment?
And I love that you're doing faces because you're known as the face guy and it's super helpful.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Don't you think? Well, I think it is sure. I mean, you know, whatever your specialty is, but marketing is broader than that. First of all, I've always been a good, I'm not a good dancer. I'm not a good singer, but I can mark it. I'm really good at figuring out how to make it all work while I work 4 days a week.
Okay. Why can I mark it? Because I am excited about what I do. I love it. I love to tell people what I do and I don't do things that I'm not good at or things that I don't like. I don't do those. Okay. Not because I'm not good at it. I just don't do them. I don't like rhinoplasty, you know? I don't do hair transplants, obviously.
There are things I don't do because whatever I, I just don't, you know, with the things that I do, I'm good at, and I liked them and I want people to know that I'm proud of what I. If I were the hot dogs and everybody know I being busy and you know, if they, if they tell their neighbor, you know, they'll get one free, blah, blah, blah.
So, marketing's for me was always very simple. It was, you know, making your brands, simply telling people what you do. I ask people, I go to meetings, Hey, give me one of your cards. I don't have any, or I don't know. I'm going to beat you every time. And
Catherine Maley, MBA: The way I love your business card on your, you're not kidding you.
It literally has your cell phone on that card. And I remember thinking that can't really be his cell phone, and then I texted you and it was, yeah,
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I probably two times in my life, if I, if I had an inappropriate call,
Catherine Maley, MBA: you know, do you think everyone's going to bother you? And they don't. They're just so surprised that you offer that
Joe Niamtu, DMD: that's right.
They, they respect that. So marketing is free. Every patient that walks in here during my 4 day work week. It's a marketing opportunity. And is it going to be a good marketing opportunity or bad marketing opportunity? Is your staff courteous? Are they well dressed? Is your office clean? Does it smell like smoke? Does it smell like do you, you know, do you have nobody has magazines in the room anymore, but are they outdated?
I mean, I could name all this stuff. That's negative marketing, positive marketing, all the things we've talked about, friendly, joyous staff, clean, sterile environment, friendly doctor available doctor, what type of ups person came in. And they said, you know what? When I come in here, I hate to leave because it's so nice in here.
Everybody's so nice to me. And then I have to go to other places. People are mean. So, you know, marketing is not just, you're not smart and the practices 24 7. And when you go out to eat, when you do anything, you should be marketing your practice, logos uniforms. You can't see it here, but you know, I mean, you know, we have logos on, on everything and you know, my staff markets too.
So, before the internet you had press marketing yet yellow pages, you had you know, television, radio, things like that. Well, the internet changed everything. It's so funny because the people watching this that, you know, I used to feel bad for my parents because they didn't have TV, the technology, the radio Dell, my God, I feel so bad for them.
And of course, now somebody, you don't, you didn't have the internet. Oh my God. How did you live? So social media has changed everything. Okay. And you know obviously having a website is like the old yellow pages. If you don't, if you don't have a good website, not representing yourself, but oh goodness.
You know, Facebook, Instagram, tick. Well, you know, on and on. So, I do always have done my own marketing and I do my own webpage. I have 21 million views on my YouTube channel and I have hundreds of videos and I do them all. I shoot them on a green screen. I, you know, I'm talking on their rating and I go home and edit them, put it together, publish them.
And I put that on my Facebook pages, my first, well, my professional page and do a little thing on Instagram. I not big on it. And some of these other things, my patients aren't looking at that. So, you know, a shotgun approach is great at any one time. I have TV ads, radio ads. I had a billboard. Signs on my office.
I had, I sponsor sports teams, women's events, charities, high school auctions, baseball games, and I'm giving a Botox for their, for their auctions. I mean, marketing is 24 7 even if I only work 4 days a week in surgery. The only time it's hard marketing fun because I'm just, I get to tell, you know, if I can find it, I've always said, give me, give me a group of five women.
Let me tell them what I do. And you know, they'll come to me. What do you have to be? Cause anybody can mark. So, number one, you have to be able to back up, you know, if you talk the document, we'll walk the walk. A lot of people that market, and they have unhappy patients and they get bad reviews. You've got to be good at what you do have to back it up.
And you know, it's just a shotgun approach. You probably can't be everywhere, but some people are everywhere and they usually have felt I do it all myself and the people I have had tried to help me. I don't know. I'm not going to do it the way you want it. Nope. You're too much. And they're right.
They're probably correct. So, marketing during your 4 day work week should be fun. It should be honest. It should not be cheesy. I always tell, be I started, I put 20% of my production for marketing and there was a time when my marketing budget was low, but the other free stuff was free. Okay. And you know, as I got busier, I started doing more print ads, newspaper, radio, TV, and I had a billboard and I took it down.
Nobody ever said a word about it until it was dialed.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it's hard to crack that it's not the first place I could go nowadays because I prefer to track everything. But the billboard is one of those things that you can't put your finger on it unless the patients are mentioning, oh, I saw him on the road.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. And you know, marketing's like underwear, it's, everybody has different types.
So, when you see somebody let's just say that they are saying to me, Hey, you know, I do three a week and it's, I love going to work 4 days a week. And I love doing that. And if somebody has to come off like that, and that's not, their personality is going to be fake. Right. And one thing that I'm really, again, even though I have some good friends to do it, man, singing, rapping, dancing, operating room.
I want to tell you something. My staff, I was at a meeting and they sent a video of them cleaning the operating room. So, they all had mops and Aniceph gates and they were cleaning them thoroughly, but they were dancing and singing into the mops and everything. And I made a bullet down because to me, the operating room was like church it's reverence it's, that's not a place to screw around.
And I don't think patients want to see that, you know, somebody that's 18 or 22 and somebody, you know, rapids in the operating room. And there's somebody sticking up in the background while they may think that school, but I can guarantee you most patients, they don't want to be in that operation. And so, you always have to be tasteful and this will help lead the way to only work 4 days a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It depends on because some of those do very, very well with that, but that's their demographic. The demographic that there's choosing is a, it could be a different social economic demographic, then you're looking for oftentimes. So, you just have to know yourself, you don't know themselves and how far you're willing to go, but then you have to be responsible for who you attract you because that attracts a certain patient.
Do you want that patient or would you prefer somebody else more serious?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: And then the other thing is, so right now there's such a generic branding and marketing on all those formats that I've mentioned that it's almost all the same, the dancing boxes and singing back there though wrapping back there and the whole key to marketing, differentiate yourself to be different than.
Right now, it's just a race to who can get the most dancing videos up or whatever. And you know, I think you do better if you tell people why you're not like everybody else and why you're different, but so couple things about marketing. You have to be sincere. You have to be able to back it up. It's non-stop, you know, in the old days, you know, you bought your referring doctors or whatever had a party or a Christmas ham or so, and that was your marketing 24 7, because if it's not good marketing and its bad market, wherever you go, your marketing, you go to a restaurant you're rude to a waitress.
One of the guys in my hometown that inspired me, I went and watched them do facial surgery. He said, always tip big in your hometown would be the biggest difference. People remember that, you know, that guy makes all that money and he, you know, but so my point is you're always marketing and you know, when I started.
There's a river that goes through Richmond, the James river. I would always see people on one side of the river because Richmond, Virginia is just old stodgy, blue blood banking people. They crossed the river. And then I started seeing people from all over the city. That's my practice got bigger around the state.
And then I have an international practice that I can run with only working 4 days a week. Now, 40% of my patients are from out of town. And you know, this is just the fruits of my labor. I don't care who you are. Some things you just doing the right thing at the right time, being in the right place at the right time. There's a lot in all of us and everything we do so much marketing just has to do with patient.
You can dance and rap and do everything you want. But when you're face-to-face with patients, the first thing I do when they come here, I walk in, I shake their hand. Now we'll give it fist bumps. Right. And I say, hi, Yep. And I never wear dress shoes I ever get right here. Right. I threw all my ties away years ago.
And you know, some doctors like white coats and ties. I'm not that guy. Okay. First thing I do is I ask the patient something about themselves. So, what do you do sometimes? They're so taken back because so many doctors are just perfect. Okay. Today we're talking about this and I want you to tell me about your family or your job or whatever.
And I'm so excited about what I do. I want to be telling them, you know, I want to hear what they're excited and if they can't tell me that may be a red flag, you could mark it all you want. And it's important. And it's really important now because people look at you, they look at your reviews, they look at your online presence.
And I have friends (who don't work 4 days a week, but work more) that they're not on any social platforms and they, they do well. They have a boutique practice that, you know, I have people that never check their reviews.
I'm always afraid. Jason's a bad room, which everybody will get once in a while. There's no single recipe for success. It comes in so many ways shapes and forms, and it's a little bit different for everybody. You know, I know that there's probably doctors out there that say, ah, Joe's a nice guy, but he's, you know, he's always bouncing around and, you know, whatever.
And I'm not for everybody. They're not for everybody. You've got to find that happy medium which is the basis of how to work 4 days a week. And you know, when a patient comes in, I say, Joe, I'm Joe Smith. Okay. Put the brakes on here. I got to, I got to tone myself down and. You know, a little bit more still and they're more conservative and I need to be a little bit more concerned, right? I don't want-
Catherine Maley, MBA: you're fine. Just the way you are. I'll tell you what you're doing differently than anybody I've ever seen that before and after photos. How many before and after photos do you have on your website?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I have 10,000 pictures on my website and my wife for decades. Let me tell you this. Every before and after photo is made in my spare time (apart from when I work 4 days a week) and I've done asleep, but you know, that's why I love, I get so much done on airplanes.
I know you do. Nobody's bothering you. Your phone's not ringing. And I'm made those before and after pictures. And you know, you know, when I had a hundred, she said, how many did me? I had 500. What? I had several thousand. I'll tell you what people come to me. And they said, well, you don't want this. This other guy has got.
Oh, man, he's supposed to be the deal. Everybody talks about him, everything, but he's got nine before and after pitch. And he said, well, his patients won't let him use their fish. Come on. You know,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I need to interject here because I get at least that complaint weekly. I say, where are your photos? And they say, oh, my patients won't agree.
Then how was Dr. Joe neon to able to get 10,000 people to, to approve photos?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. So, it's probably not 10,000 people because I might have four views, but it's,
Catherine Maley, MBA: what's the secret. Well, how are you getting them to say yes,
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I can tell you this. If I could use everybody's pictures, I'd have 20 minutes. So, here's the deal.
You can never use somebody's picture without telling, or you are a lottery ticket. All right. A lot of people got in trouble. I asked people. I say, gosh, I I'm so happy that this worked out this way. I'm so excited. I think you looked great. Would you, would you let me use him for an app? And some people will say, I'd say a fourth of the people said use whatever you want.
And so, some will say, and then I'll say, well, now pull out a picture where the top of its base is hit and I'll say, well, what about if I just use bottoms? And some of those people will say, okay, okay. And then there are some people that they look at you like; your hair is on fire. They're like, are you kidding me?
Use my picture. No, you can't ever use my picture. So, they ask you a question. How do you get used people fixture? You ask them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I'm the only doctor, you know, that takes all their before and after pictures (outside of when I work 4 days a week), of everyone. As I'm taking a picture, I'll say, look, how look your profile looks like you're 30 right after I took those pictures and face. Correct. Can I use any of your pictures? And I say, I'll email them to you. And you let me know, and then I haven't signed whatever.
Yes. I could use them or I can use them if I crop them or I can't use them at all. So, you just have to ask your patients, listen, most docs. It's just too late. It takes me a good 25 minutes to put together before and after series for a facelift and all of that. A hundred percent of it's in my spare time, I do it each night after I get home from work 4 days a week.
I do it between cases. I do it on airplanes, but that is paid off. You know, that I pay what that's like. That's like putting money in the bank when you're young and you have exponential growth interest, you know, compounding interest. This is another secret on how to work 4 days a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, It's giving back. It's like a cash cow. And it's the one thing that you don't get the advantage, right?
That second, you don't get the point of why am I going to waste my time doing this? Unless you do it. And you reap the benefits of it. That's the best marketing you could ever ask for is to have patients showing off their scraper
Joe Niamtu, DMD: sold, and you have to have standardized pictures. I see so many terrible pictures.
The oldest trick in the book you take the before picture without a flash. So, it's all shadowy. Then you take the picture with a flash. Some people that had small, the head's big. I have standardized pictures and my patients know that. And yeah, photo photography in cosmetic surgery is everything and pictures and videos.
You know, if I had to get rid of everything else, all the things we talked about, marketing, the only thing I would keep as much as my before and after pictures. And you know what people. I see them all over the place. Other electric. Well, yeah. And that's, you know, If you have any sense at all, you can Photoshop a lot.
I'm in a lecture and I see what am I faced with patients? And somebody saying that's there,
Catherine Maley, MBA: but you know what? There's another copy. They wouldn't be saying yes, unless they liked you. So, this started way before you asked for the photos, you tarted, when you said hi, I'm Joe, you know, receptionist said, good afternoon, welcome to our practice. You know, it, it, it all goes hand in hand. And I just do think a lot of surgeons get that, that it's the whole continual patient experience from beginning to end.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I think, look, most of my friends that I'm really close with, you go to a meeting and you can't wait to see him and you vacation with that. You, your wives and their wife and that sort of thing. They're all fulfilled. You know, they're all doing, I don't want to say what I'm doing if they're doing what they're doing to be successful, but there's a lot of just grumpy, unhappy doctors and a lot of that result could be avoided if they went to work 4 days a week, instead of 5-7.
I know friends that they wait for two things. They wait for Friday, they worked for retirement and that's no way to go through lines. You know, some people don't get it. They just want to go to work. And they're just going to go to work. They're going to keep going through. They're going to repeat the same mistakes, maybe busy enough just because they're in Northern North Dakota or something.
Nobody else is there, you know, whatever. So,
Catherine Maley, MBA: all right, then let's let some work. We have to wrap this up soon. Let's talk about mindset because yours is so incredible. You have that growth mindset versus fixed mindset. I mean, you see the opportunity and -
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I want to be able to come here to show you one of, one of the big reasons I can work 4 days a week.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hi, how are you? We would just talk about you because,
Joe Niamtu, DMD: and when we close, when we close this, we're going to talk a little bit about why she's such a supermom. But another thing about marketing is having you can't market by yourself. You need other people, the more you involve, the more stuff you do by yourself, the more you take away from that person in their time.
So, they have to be incredibly on board with.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, can we just talk a little bit about what drives you (and enables you to work 4 days a week), and you're very to the charitable organizations, but also you have special needs children that you're doing. God's work on that one. I, I commend you. I admire you from afar. Is there anything you want to talk about about that?
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. Well, the story is, you know, I didn't get married till I was it took me half century to find a girl in my dreams. And of course, every father, you know, I wanted to have a son. I wanted to you know maybe have them take over my business someday, throw a football, teach them how to hunt fish.
And my first son was born with severe cerebral policies. His doctor said he would never walk. The dog would be tube fed and be in diapers. And, you know, it's an incredible set. I can't even describe. Challenge for special needs. Parents is something would happen to you who would take care of that helpless child.
So we went through high risk, you know, and they tology, and don't want to have the second child to be the guardian for Joey. And, you know, they said they did all these tests and everything. They said, having this happen together, it'd be like winning the lottery twice. And we had the same thing happened. So, my other son, Evan Joe is 21 11 19 same things.
So yeah, it was a beat down. I can't, I mean, I don't know, I don't know how I made it through those first years. One of the reasons was that my wife is so incredible and sees such the positive aspect here and take such great care of these guys. They've had over 30 operations combined when other parents were going to soccer games and school plays and, you know, We were in emergency rooms and doctors, offices, and ICU.
But you know, we go to very active, you know, you mentioned a lot of the charity stuff I used to do. Most of my stuff now is guided it if you know, children special needs children and which it has been before I, especially anyhow. But we go to groups and events and I see situations where there's people that have it worse than we have it.
You know, there are single moms that are barely making it (working more than 4 days a week). They live on the second floor and they don't have in advance. And so, I'd be lying to you if I did say that, that just gutted me, just gutted me. But you know, it's like, and my step wary and you have to find the joy that you can. So. You know, like children, I'll never hear the word, daddy, they can't walk or talk, but I, they smile.
We watch TV together. I'll play my guitar and make them laugh. And to me, that's, that's the touchdown. That's the soccer ball. That's the, my wife is just so amazing at taking care of them. And I don't think she knows their special needs. You know, she dresses up on holiday leave and everything else,
Catherine Maley, MBA: styling and photos, they seem super happy.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Yeah. And you know, so there's a big pearl (besides being able to work 4 days a week), here is that life's not easy and we're all going to have challenges. And there's some people that have worse challenges. And, you know, is that going to define you or is that going to be, is being able to deal with that and move on, going to define you? That's what you have to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I, I don't even know what to say because I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I mean, some people have challenges that was a major, major challenge that you have somehow turned into, you know, the lemonade from the lemons, or however that saying goes. But I just want you to know people admire you from afar.
You know, they just don't know what to say to you, but it's amazing what you've done with what you've been given. Congratulations.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: I'm just one person doing what they love, trying to do it well and trying to make the best out of the cards that they're dealt. And that's the advice that I give to everybody.
So, you're the same. I think we have a lot of the same aspirations and successes and being able to enjoy it and the true love of teaching, telling other people, you know, good thing and trying to help them. And that's what you do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why you're famous, and that's not only being able to only work 4 days a week. That's how we met each other way back when I wish I were as famous as you are.
That's for sure. I'm afraid to give people your contact information. Cause I don't want everyone to be bugging you to get to know better. How do you
Joe Niamtu, DMD: reach out? My website is https://www.lovethatface.com/ and my email is niamtu@niamtu.com.
It's been great sharing this time with you and learning how you're able to work 4 days a week, and I'm sure we'll see each other soon in person now that there are first meeting,
Catherine Maley, MBA: that'll be darling. I've never had a doctor playing guitar before.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Joe Niamtu, DMD: Enjoy. Okay, everybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you so much for joining us today on learning about Dr. Joe Niamtu and his recipe for success and getting to a point where he only has to work 4 days a week. I hope you got a lot out of that. Would you please do me a favor and head over to Beauty and the Biz? And if you haven't subscribed yet or give us an, a, a review, please do, then if you've got any questions or feedback for me, please leave them at my website at https://www.catherinemaley.com.
Be sure to share this with your colleagues as well as your staff. And then if you need anything, you can always Instagram me @CatherineMaleyMBA. Thanks so much. We'll talk again soon.
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #joeniamtudmd #lovethatface.com #lovethatface
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery to get practices more patients and more profits. Today's topic is, entitled, "How to exit"; presented by Robert Singer, MD.
Few surgeons are as respected by their peers and as esteemed by their patients as Dr. Robert Singer. He's the former president of The Aesthetic Society, the California Society of Plastic Surgeons, the Aesthetic Surgery Education and Research Foundation, the American Association for Accreditation of Ambulatory Surgery Facilities, the San Diego International Society of Plastic Surgeons, and the San Diego Plastic Surgery Society. He also currently serves as the current president of the American Association for Accreditation of Ambulatory Surgery Facilities Educational Foundation.
Dr. Singer has had a long and distinguished medical career since going into private practice all the way back in 1976! He lives and works in the health, beauty and wellness mecca of La Jolla, California.
Robert Singer, MD is an internationally renowned lecturer, author, and plastic surgeon. He's the former chief of plastic surgery at multiple hospitals, as well as holding other titles and honors.
Listen in as Dr. Singer shares with you what you need to know, so that you have an exit game plan for your practice. Don't wait until it's too late! You need to start considering and preparing for this eventuality now!
Learn more about Dr. Singer at: https://www.primeplasticsurgery.com/
π² P.S. If youβre thinking about making a change and could use a different perspective, letβs talk. Schedule a Free 30-Minute strategy call with me at: https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
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Transcription:
How To Exit with Robert Singer, MD
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I am your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, this is a very exciting episode because it's Dr. Robert singer of La Jolla, California.
He's a plastic surgeon and this is actually his second appearance on Beauty and the Biz. And he's the first one I've had on twice because he has such darn good Intel. So, Dr. Singer has been in practice since 1976. And for those of you who are tough with the math, that's 46 years in practice, and he's an internationally recognized plastic surgeon and respected by peers and patients.
Now he's held positions on the board of several distinguished plastic surgery organizations, most notably The Aesthetic Society for Plastic Surgeons. Now, since a lot of surgeons, I close to we talk and lately at the last couple of years, we've been talking, we used to talk about how to get more patients, how to grow your practice.
And lately the conversation seems to be turning to how do I walk away from this profitably? Or how do I exit, or what are my options. So, I asked Dr. Singer about his exit strategies because he knows everything about everything, and he agreed to come on Beauty and the Biz and share the various options available to you as well as how he personally is handling it.
So, Dr. Singer, thank you so much for being on Beauty and the Biz. A pleasure to have you back again.
Robert Singer, MD: Thanks, Catherine. And it's a pleasure to work with you working in the past with you. It's been very productive. I would say. All plastic surgeons or anybody in practice really to avail themselves of the expertise of, of patient and practice consultants because most of us don't know what we don't know.
And I think that the consultants bring a lot to the table. So, without further ado and thank you for that introduction I'm going to share my screen and bring up.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, if you're listening to this on the podcast, I, after the podcast, I have a video session on a, on a Saturday. So, if you're listening to the podcast and you want to see the screens, look for my next email, where I'll be talking about our video, and then you can see this Dr. Singer slides.
Dr singer take it away.
Robert Singer, MD: For those Who are unaware of who I am, it's kind of irrelevant, but these are the things that I've done. So, I've had a lot of experience in plastic surgery and also fortunately in business. And we're going to talk about what's my exit strategy. So, no matter. Where you are in your practice, whether you're starting and you're building a practice, you need to think about the exit too many people wait too long to try to figure that out.
And then their options are limited. So, before you go riding off into the sunset, You need to think about what are your future plans? What are your goals? If you're going to go to something you want to make sure that you're going to go to the right things and you've identified that, so decide what your objectives are.
Do you want to stay involved in the practice or in plastic surgery in some way? Do you want to just extend your exit ramp until you gracefully decide you want to stop? You have other business ventures that you think we, that you want to do either in conjunction with practice or alone
and do things you always wanted to do remember, think about that bucket list that you haven't been able to do. Do you want to teach, do you want to volunteer locally, nationally, internationally? And we, we, my family and I have been able to do some of that. Do you want to try? To learn for or to teach you just want to enjoy life.
But think about that and that'll help you make your decisions. Don't wait to start planning. You want to start now? It's not too early to start planning, no matter what level you are in your practice. So, you have your vision. But you need an, a strategy need to prepare, have a process, execute, evolve in the result.
And then you have the transition dust doesn't happen overnight. You need to create a timeline for your goals, and you'll be a huge step closer to achieving them. But you have to think, do you have enough to retire? Is that, I mean, you may want to retire. Can you retire and live the life that you want to live?
You don't want to be in this situation. I've just done the math. And based on my calculations, I can retire about five years after I die. I've seen too many people in different businesses and that situation, remember that a goal without a plan is just a wish you need a plan. So, you've got a facility. You may have an Orr.
He may have a building. You're thinking, okay, am I going to put it up for sale? What am I going to do? You need consultants? You can't do this by yourself. You need someone as an exit strategy consultant. Somebody can evaluate the practice. Give you an idea of what it's worth and what reality is. You need an attorney to go over all the forums and whatever arrangement you make.
They need to finalize it because you'd be surprised what are in some of these exit clauses. And you need a financial consultant, essentially, a tax consultant to tell you, okay, here's how you can maximize the benefit. Here's what you're in for here are the loopholes here in the problem. So, an extra consultant, should you need to define the scope of his or her services?
Are they going to provide a promotional package to get it out, to sell it? Are they going to vet and interview individuals coming in to negotiate with potential interested parties, whether you bring in someone, whether you sell it, whether you close the door, what are you going to do? You need a non-disclosure and non-compete agreements.
If you're bringing in additional people, you need a letter of intent, a buy sell agreement, a consulting. Physician employment agreement. You may not need all of these depending on which options you take, but these are the scope of services that they can and should provide. Remember that the person as an exit strategy. In some ways may have a little conflict of interest because they're interested in sewing and getting their fees.
So, you may want to have an independent person do the valuation of the practice. On the other hand, if you find an ethical, solid person for an exit strategy, they can do both. Patient notification letter, if you're CCing practice or you're transitioning and staff termination and transition letter, if they're going to be involved in a new entity, whether you're involved in it or not.
So, these are the things that they can provide. Now. Consultant fees depend on the scope of services evaluation. The plan. Are they going to handle the tramp total transition? Are they just going to consult for you and they're going to promote it? There are variations. They may do an hourly, maybe retainer up front and maybe one time all-inclusive or a commission percentage on the total sale. If it's a sale or the transition.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Is there one that's more popular than another with the surgeons that you've noticed?
Robert Singer, MD: I think it depends on the surgeon. Every, every surgeon has a little different approach and what they're comfortable with. I, I arranged it. So, there was a retainer fee. They produced a video of the office talked about it, put it out there.
We had a fair number of individuals who responded. They were very good. And then they took a percentage of the final amount and that worked fine. Hmm. So, you need a business event, a valuation, what is it worth? If you wait until the end, you may be shortchanging yourself. But that encompasses a lot of different things because what you think it may be worth, may change and it changes with different economies.
So, the fair market value, there's the price you want. And then there's the, really the reality of the value. And there's no absolute fair sales price. You have to look at tangible asset valuation, you know, what, what, what are the instruments you use? What are the machines you have? Do you own the facility?
Do you own the old, or do you own the equipment in there? Or are you just leasing it do you have, are you just renting the facility? Those are the solid asset valuations, and then the intangible assets like Goodwill. And let me tell you, that's very intangible Goodwill. Changes a lot. It means different things.
Goodwill doesn't carry the same weight that it used to. And a lot of your patients, if you're not staying on, they came to you because it was your name. They may not stay. So that, that has to be figured in, in anybody looking at the value of this also, how much of this is upfront cosmic. Versus insurance billing, how much is collectible of that?
So, there are a lot of things that go into evaluation of the value of your practice. And there are a lot of different formulas to derive at value. I think those are the things you talk about with the consultants. All formulas may not work, what people used to get in the past for a practice. They may not get any loader.
So, your tangible ad sets. If you have a surgery center, this isn't mine, but you had a surgery center. If this is your office. This is another surgeon's office, beautiful office in in Utah. Your equipment, your, your, your lasers, some of it may be outmoded. Some of it may need maintenance.
Some of it may or may not use anymore. So, it's not only what you paid for it, but it's after depreciation, what it's worth and what would it cost to replace that? Do you have it all? Those are your tangible assets and the intangible or Goodwill when selling your business your charts, how many will stay with them or you that's another question.
And there's a difference in the Goodwill. If you are going to stay on, or if you're not going to stay on and you're leaving and you're just turning over the keys to someone else. The thing you need to do before you start doing it, this, you need to get your own house in order. You need to make sure your fine art, financial records are appropriate.
That they're clean, that you have them. Somebody can look at them, breakdown of income and a breakdown of expenditures annual procedure volume, and comparison with others in your region. And maybe nationally, your management reports, your KPIs your billing processes, who does that? What's your collection rate.
All of those things are important to look at and you know, if this is your office, what do you need to do? Is it a fixer-upper? Do you need to do a lot of things before you put it up for either sale or transition? So, you get maximum value. Is it worth repairing to add value before marketing the practice or is it not, and there's no right or wrong answer to these?
You'd have to answer these things for yourself. So, what are your options? And this is the dilemma you're scratching your head. What should I do? You can merge practices with another practice in your community. You can close the door and sell a physical asset.
You can sell it to an. Practicing and your community. You can sell it to a nearby practice. You can sell it to a group. You can join the group. You can bring on partners who can buy you out an option. You can sell it to a hospital. Most of the people I've talked to, who've sold it to hospitals. Regret that decision because.
You're captured. You can't go back to practice. You have nothing to go back to. They suddenly changed what your reimbursement is and you're not in control of anything.
You can sell it to a private equity group and still practice. That's one of the things I did and they bought other practices. We brought in other surgeons and not only in this area, but across the country, that's very different from selling to. A VC group, I won't say venture capital side vulture capital, because essentially that's what most of that is.
And although that may have worked in other specialties, it historically has not worked in plastic surgery to different time. And I think private equity is interested as long as physicians are running. I think that the models and orthopedics and ophthalmology and term don't necessarily work for plastic surgery, but it's an option.
So financial consultant, you need that. You're going to sell this. Okay. If you get a certain amount of money, what are the tax implications? How do you want that structured? How much do you want structured for Goodwill? How much do you want structured future payout? How much do you want private equity going forward?
So, all of those things, you really need a consultant because I doubt any plastic surgeon, I'm talking to out there can give good solid answers of the best way to do that. How do you fit into that puzzle? If you bring in someone or you're going to sell it or you're going to stay on, does that really work?
Is it a good match? And if you're going to do business with someone else, you have to look their ability, their talent, their attitude, their skills. No how their potential, remember everything in life, whether it's personal or business it's about relationships. Is this really going to work? Are you a big comfortable in it or are you going to resent it, do that homework and check that out ahead of time?
And what's the brand image that's going to be there. Are you going to be comfortable? Is it very different from the brand that you have? Is it something you may be different, but you're going to be happy with, if not, that's not the best option for you? So, adding associates and many do this, sometimes it works out.
You need a structured plan. Are they going to be on salary? Is it going to be revenue sharing? What's going to happen before a partnership, if there is a partnership and what's the buy-in to a partnership, what period of time? Is there a buyout, if you want to exit, what are they faced with? Can they afford it?
Those are all things you need to look at. When you add associates, it's like getting married. You're going to spend a lot of time with those associates. You better make sure you're going to be happy with that. And then what if, what if it doesn't work out? So, you need to be flexible. What you think your plan is.
It may change as time goes on, or that association didn't work out or that partner went off on their own. So, you need to have several options to be flexible and realize that your ideal may not work out. And remember the value of money today is different from what it was before. And it was good. It's going to continue to change as the economy changes before you turn over your keys to somebody, make sure that it's what you want and it's what you're going to be comfortable with.
So, you're not going to have seller's remorse and then you can change your... To retire as someone else. No business, no deadlines, no phone, no email, not my problem. Now that's not for everybody. A lot of people want to stay involved. I personally wanted to continue to stay in the practice. I wanted to continue cause I'm still involved in a lot of task forces in state nationally, internationally.
And That's important to me. So just walking out into the sunset and just playing tennis or just surfing wasn't the answer. But it's different for everyone. So, find what you want to do, but do it early enough that as things change, you can adapt and modify but have a plan.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great Dr. Singer.
Several times. A surgeon has brought in an associate and I've heard that like, cause I've been at these 22 years, so I've heard quite a bit of what goes on. And the surgeon said he was going to retire and then D and the associate any, he texts on another five years, another five years. Like he just, I think mentally you have to know yourself.
Are you going to be able to walk away? When it's time.
Robert Singer, MD: Yeah, I think everybody's different that way. You know, my, my exit strategy has changed through the years. My, I keep moving the goalposts but I know that for me, just totally walking away without some interest continued in plastic surgery was not the answer for me.
And I have a lot of other aspects in my life that are important, but there are also things. Develop like the health of your family that may change things. You know, I'm blessed with a better two thirds, Judith, my wife but she's developed some illness and that changes your plans. The community changes international situation changes your, your health may change where you think, you know, I'd like to do these things.
My, my wife's advice was great. Judas says I never want to look back and say, I wish I had done that. So don't put off doing the things you want. Getting back to associates the, you know, I, I would say by and large, some of those relationships work. That had been well-structured ahead of time.
And everybody knows what they're getting. I would say more than 50% don't work out because the expectations were unrealistic. And I think it's like handling patients for surgery. It's managing expectations on both sides. Got to be honest with the person that who's coming in and you have to be honest with yourself and that should all be laid out ahead of time.
Otherwise, it won't work.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it's actually higher than the divorce rate, because I don't think you have the mental mindset to hang around with an associate and you don't want to be with, you know, like, I think you have a less tolerance for it. I just haven't seen many that have worked out super well.
The ones I think have worked out well are when they had serious bounds. Like one does neck up the other does neck down, you know, it's really clear who's going to do what. But I wondered that I just wonder what is the easiest way to exit profitably? Because I have interviewed a few doctors to find out how they did it.
And surprisingly, the plastic surgery, part of their practice was not as valuable as their nonsurgical predictable revenues. And if you start looking at that, that actually makes a lot of sense because there's a lot more certainty. In like the nonsurgical med spa services, because the patients weren't really hanging around with you anyway.
It's more predictable and that's actually quite frankly why I came up with the kiss love because loyalty club, because I don't think gain weight if, if you're, if the value is not in the plastic surgery, where is it? And it's right. Like, it really kind of made sense. So, a couple of doctors said I didn't buy the surgical side.
I bought the non-surgical side. Isn't that interesting?
Robert Singer, MD: It is. And the other aspect of that, where it may be valuable is if they they've owned the building or they've owned the office property, and that may be more valuable for practice itself, but nobody's in that situation, that's fine.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But would you recommend like somebody getting started or just newer at this to buy some real estate?
Robert Singer, MD: I'm not going to be in a position of telling people how to invest their money, right. At this moment. Real estate seems like a reasonably good option. It always isn't. The other thing one has to look at, especially if they're starting. You know, how much debt do I have? Can I afford more debt? Do I want to compromise my future lifestyle by building a facility?
And I'm then locked into paying for that? My own surgical facility almost since I started practicing, although I'm on the campus of, of Scripps Memorial hospital, I'm involved in the hospital. I can't conceive what it would be like not having the facility. We didn't have to shut down when the lack of things at the hospital were shut down and I'm still on surgery, supervisory at the hospital.
So, I respect what the hospital has to do. But it gives you a lot of freedom to have your own, but it's also very expensive to run you. The more personnel you have. I always say, as you increase your staff arithmetically, you re increase your aggravation geometrically, and that's getting harder and harder in today's world.
I, if I was starting to do. When I build my old facility, probably not, not until I had an active, good practice going that was going to pay that overhead. And I would tell you also, if I was just coming out of a residency or fellowship, I wouldn't want to learn on my own dime. I've learned on somebody else's time.
I'd learned about business by joining somebody at least initially to learn the business.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a good point. Another thing that has come up, and again, you have to know who you are and what your tolerance level is. So, some of the surgeons have sold to a hospital and I said, how long are you staying?
And they said, well, I'm in for three years now, all of a sudden over. They went from running the whole show to being an employee and they don't run anything. And that sounds fantastic initially, like, oh, thank God. I just have to do surgery. I don't have to do the marketing deal with the staff, but then some of them had had trouble with that and saying, wow, I'm just watching.
You know, crucifying my practice. Any thoughts on that?
Robert Singer, MD: Yeah, I think most of the physicians I've seen have that situation resent that they made that decision. They can't control the marketing; they can't control the service. They can't control who takes care of the patients. And then the hospital may make a whole different decision.
Cutting you out of it. You have, you've been the captain of your own. Right. We're used to doing that and you give that up and that's okay. Some people can do that. And there are a number of people, significant percentage of plastic surgeons who find that emotionally disquieting.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The whole control issue, for sure.
So how, how, what is your situation because didn't you sell? Who did you sell to?
Robert Singer, MD: I sold to a, an MSO, a medical service organization that had a couple spas and one other office bought a practice of very busy plastic surgeon in the community. I brought in another surgeon who was very busy, didn't have his own or never using our joint or here and another surgeon.
So, they're four people now who use the two hours and we have two others in practice, two other individuals in the practice who have just signed a letter of agreement to join prime. And as I say, we have. Black practices and other communities, including on the east coast and others in Northern California.
So, it's a different arrangement because although there is a primary financial individual who has been very successful in other ventures and critic real estate his main associate who was involved in the venture was a plastic surgeon. So, the decisions are, and I'm. Theoretically the chief strategy officer.
So, there are a lot of the things that we bring to the table having run practices for a long time, that somebody as a venture capital group would know cause they would do it not from the point of view of service of the patient and what's best in a practice. So, I think it requires the combination of both.
That's why most practices. That have just sold to a venture capital have not worked out because they have a totally different model. It's only about the bottom line. It's not about taking care of the patient. So, I think you need to look at that. There are some people that are happy with that. I'm not saying what's right or wrong.
You have to look inside yourself and say, okay, what am I going to be comfortable with? What am I not going to be comfortable with?
Catherine Maley, MBA: And now are you still practicing within this new agreement? Arrangement.
Robert Singer, MD: Yeah. I'm not doing another facelift till tomorrow morning. Yeah. I'm practicing that. And you know, as I say, I'm still very involved in, in the organizations and lecturing and also in training staff as they come through.
As we've needed more staff of what we expect, what is the brand? What's the image because you want, you're only as good as. I'll say it again. You're only as good as your staff and they have to reflect what your image of the branding is. Whether you join a group and you're going to have multiple offices, you need to have some consistency of that brand.
If that brand isn't comfortable for you.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Talking about staff. What does happen when you decide to exit it? Is it typical to agree or in your negotiations? Keep the staff there or just let everyone go and give them a severance.
Any thoughts on that?
Robert Singer, MD: I think there are multiple different ways to do that in attorney is best for that.
If you have a for example, a C Corp and you want to shut that down to something, to an S-corp or something else, you may want to terminate employment with the idea that they will be hired by the new entity because you know, they're, they're, they're. Buying your liabilities, they're buying your assets.
And so, they're always destructure that, but you need to look carefully and you have to have a full understanding if you're going to sell it, you know, what are they buying? What they're not buying? What are the arrangements for the staff? Are they going to keep them all? Are they going to let some of them go?
But those are all the types of things you need to negotiate ahead of time.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, just overall, just the years of experience I've had anecdotally in your practice is never worth as much as you think it's, it is, you know, they're, they're just two very different numbers. The, the number you think it is, and then the number the other party thinks they should be, you know?
Robert Singer, MD: I think that's very true.
And what Goodwill and what practices used to sell for. Right. It's different today. It's a different world, different economy. I, and I, as you know, I lecture a lot about practice management and I, one of the things I talk about is, you know, you're, you're doing. Piecework is a plastic surgeon, you know, and you're a glorified tailored some ways.
So don't get carried away. You're not a rockstar. And once you start believing your own PR, you're going to be in trouble. So don't believe that because you're not going to be worth what you think you are.
Catherine Maley, MBA:
That's A really good point. Yeah. All right. Well, I, if somebody was to have a question for you, I'm afraid to ask, to give them your information.
Cause I don't want you to get bombarded, but if they did have a question for you, I want to talk to you. How would they reach out to you?
Robert Singer, MD: They, they can, they can contact me through the office and they, they call the La Jolla Prime office and that's 8 5 8 4 5 5 5 2 1 4. And I can tell them, here are the people that I used that worked well and uh, here are some other options for you.
But you know, as I say, don't wait until your last six months when you want to walk away or your last year, or even your last two years, no matter what level you were at, start thinking about it. Now you may want to alter it as you go along. You may not do that, but at least you thought about what am I going to do down the road?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Please think about it 10 years before you're even considering exiting, because it takes a minute to figure all this out and to build up your assets and get your money straight, get your accounting straight, get your legal straight, get your processes and systems in order. It's a much bigger deal than you realize.
So, if anything, I would, even, if you were thinking about retiring. 10 years, I would at least have a consultant come in and just take a look and see like right now, like, or study it, go online, Google it, you know, how much is the practice worth and find out what is valuable to somebody else, because it might not be, you know, as valuable to them as it was to you.
Okay. I think that's it. I really appreciate your time, Dr. Singer. Thank you so much. And everybody, if you got a lot out of this, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give us a good review so we can share this with other surgeons and get a better reach. And if you've got any questions for me, you can certainly leave my website at www.CatherineMaley.com or you can DM me at Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Of course, please call or text me if you need clarity or want to learn more about how to exit your cosmetic surgery practice.
Catherine Maley, MBA β’ Author, Your Aesthetic Practice β’ Cosmetic Patient Attraction AND Conversion Specialist
Catherine@CosmeticImageMarketing.com
Cell/Text: (415) 377-8700
http://www.CosmeticImageMarketing.com
#plasticsurgeonmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #podcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #stafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #drsinger #robertsingermd #primeplasticsurgery
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Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery and how you can get cash-paying patients on autopilot.
If you want to do well in aesthetic medicine, it takes a certain mindset.
You have to think different, then be different to attract the preferred patients you want, whenever you want, at the price you want.
Because you know how much easier your job is when you're working with patients you enjoy vs. those you don't enjoy because they zap your energy.
You just donβt need the aggravation.
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast episode on getting Cash-Paying Patients on Autopilot is an eye-opener.
Itβs a special presentation I did called,
βCash-Paying Patients on Autopilotβ¦.Without Advertising or Discountingβ.
Youβll discover how to add an extra $200K, $300K, even $500K+ to your bottom line, even if your revenues have been at a plateau for YEARS.
Enjoy and I look forward to your feedback β
Transcription:
Cash-Paying Patients on Autopilot
Announcer: Welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we discuss Cash-Paying Patients on Autopilot. Discover how to grow your practice with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion and retention advice from author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice, business and marketing coach Catherine Maley, MBA.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, hello. My name is Catherine and I want to welcome you to this masterclass called "Cash paying patients on autopilot". Without advertising or discounting. Now you should find this very informative and thought provoking. Since you'll hear some different perspectives, you may not have considered. Now I know most presentations like this, start out with lots of banter and fluff, and we talk about the weather, but I want to respect your time.
So, let's jump right in. I'd like to begin with who this is for. So just to be sure, we're on the same page, I want to be specific about who "Cash-Paying Patients on Autopilot" is for, and that is cosmetic practices as well as med spas who offer surgical and nonsurgical procedures. That means you cater to only cash paying patients. Now, why is that important?
You may ask because it's very difficult to be profitable in aesthetics when you're torn between patients with an insurance card and those with a credit card. Now the insurance patients will take up all of your time, as well as your staff's time. So, we are focused on only cash paying patients. They're worth way more to you, and there's no insurance forms or regulations to hassle with.
So that's where I like to focus. And I'll bet you do too. Now this is for you. If you been struggling to increase your income or you want to stop the yo-yoing revenue from month to month, that keeps you up at night. Because you are anxious about covering your overhead. Now, if any of this rings true to you, you are in the right place to learn more about cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And whether you've been practicing for decades or just a couple of years, either way, this is for you. Okay. So let me tell you what we're going to be covering in the next, approximately 45 minutes. I'm going to show you how to 10 times your revenues using the resources you already have without wasting time and money on advertising, discounting your services or performing on social media to gain followers.
Now this came about because I watched so many practices, advertise specials, and I get it. You're trying to attract new cosmetic patients, but that hurts your profit margins - Something that cash-paying patients on autopilot can cure. Typically, these patients are those press shoppers who nickel and dime you to death. And then social media has become a very popular patient attraction strategy.
However, when done, right, it takes a ton of your own personal time because prospective patients want to see here and watch you. That's what keeps them engaged. So now you're not only the service as provider, but you're also the marketer as well as the social media influencer. So, we'll talk about how to increase.
The number of cosmetic patient visits, referrals, reviews, and shares on social media in a fun way. So, your existing patients enthusiastically grow your practice or meds before you. Now, the keyword here is existing patients. Because obviously they're your lowest hanging fruit and the fastest cheapest, easiest way to more revenues because they already know like, and trust you. This is where cash-paying patients on autopilot comes in.
You don't need to put on a show for them. They're open to you and they're much more apt to respond to you. So, it's always smart to start there first. Now you're also going to discover how to generate the preferred patients you want whenever you want. At the price you want. Now I know that's a big statement, but it really is possible.
You know, how much easier your job is when you're working with patients you enjoy, versus those you don't enjoy because they zap your energy. Now, you know, those patients that are demanding, they're rude to your staff. They freely negotiate with you with, with no shame and they make you regret ever inviting them into your practice in the first place.
You just don't need the extra hassle of undesirable patients. So, we're going to fix that. You'll also discover how to implement a simple system of having cash-paying patients on autopilot so you can serve more patients without spending more money on staff or a fancier office. Now there's nothing wrong with a fancier office, but it's expensive to create and maintain, and it's not necessary.
And I'll show you. You'll also have the option to expand. Now that predictable revenues are coming in. If that's what you want to do now, some surgeons want to expand by moving into a larger office or buying their own building or opening satellite offices. And then some don't some surgeons for, to keep it simple, but at least you'll have the option of deciding what makes more sense.
For those of you interested in getting cash-paying patients on autopilot, you'll also discover how to add an extra 200 K 300 K even 500 K to your bottom line. Even if your revenues have been at a plateau for years, and you'll do that without spending more on advertising to attract a bunch of leads. Staff has to follow up on that waste their time and waste. Your time when they don't show up for consultations or worse, they show up, but they say they have consultations with your competitors.
So, they can't commit. You don't need that aggravation. And lastly, you'll discover how to take your practice or med spa to high six or, and figures while you enjoy more freedom to expand or relax. It's your choice. And isn't that the whole point of you being in business to have the freedom to do it your way.
So, here's my promise to you. I want to give you a step-by-step strategy of having cash-paying patients on autopilot so you can 10 X, your revenues, and attract a steady stream of high paying patients without spending a fortune on advertising or discounting your services. But before we get into all of that, let me just check in with you really quick. Does any of this sound familiar?
Do you lose cosmetic patients and revenues to the ever-growing number of competitors surrounding you, even though you believe you provide better results? By the way that competition is not going away. And it's only going to get worse as government regulations increase and insurance reimbursements decrease.
And as advancements in technology, give patients so many more surgical. And nonsurgical options. Now that last point affects you big time because cosmetic patients will delay an expensive surgical procedure. If they believe they can get a good enough result, nonsurgically in the short run from a non-surgeon, even if it ends up costing them more.
Down the line, by the way, there are studies that show, if you don't develop a relationship early with a patient who wants nonsurgical procedures, you won't get them when they are ready for surgery, because they've developed a relationship with your competitor instead, just saying. Are you also sick and tired of feeling you have to discount to attract new patients to your practice or med spot to bring in new business? Now, obviously, you know, discounting hurts your bottom line and your profits, but it also hurts your image, but you don't know what else to do. And what about this one? Are your advertising costs going up and up? Cash-paying patients on autopilot doesn't have these types of costs.
And you're just not sure how much longer you can keep going like this. As a matter of fact, I attended an internet marketing conference in Austin, Texas recently, and learned that Facebook is raising their ad rates 30, 80% and Google ads are right behind them. Gosh, I've been around the marketing world long enough to know.
And remember when all of this online exposure was free to you because these internet platforms needed to first build an audience. And then once they did, they started charging for advertising. So why are they raising their rates so dramatically because they can, and that is insane. Or maybe you're bringing in good revenue, but by the time you've paid for your marketing staff office and equipment, there's virtually nothing left over for you because the sign of a successful practice is if you pay yourself a nice salary and you have money left over and, or.
Maybe you're working way too hard in dealing with too much stress and hassle for what you're getting paid. Now, surgeons have said to me more than once that they didn't realize how much overhead goes into running a private practice, especially when they came from a hospital setting where everything was taken care of for them.
So, it can be a real eye opener when they go solo. You. Now do you live in a constant state of uncertainty and fear that the government or a pandemic or the economy and or technology could put you out of business without a moment's notice? For example, most practices had at least a two-month fortification in 2020 due to COVID shutdowns.
Isn't that, right? And it could happen again. The problem is we just don't know. And lastly, do you worry your risk and hard work won't pay off and you'll be working in your practice forever. Feeling like you are never going to be able to retire comfortably. So, you just keep doing what you're doing, or maybe you want to work until you drop and that's fine, but wouldn't you prefer having a choice rather than a choice being forced upon you.
So, what's the real problem. And how do you fix this so you can have cash-paying patients on autopilot? Well, one of the problems is too many ad agencies and internet marketers are promising you the world, but rarely do you see the results you were promised? So, you're frustrated and skeptical and for good reason. Now, if any of that sounds familiar, then I have good news for you because none of those are the real problem.
Those are just symptoms. Now the real problem is that you have not made the five shifts, and we're going to talk about exactly what those shifts are in just a moment, but for now, just know this. Once you make this shift, you'll have peace of mind. You need, knowing you have an automatic system to attract a steady stream of cash paying patients.
You can count on to grow your revenues through having cash-paying patients on autopilot. You'll feel in control with a predictable and reliable plan to keep your revenues coming in month after month and all year long, if you've experienced killer months and then cricket months, you know what I mean? Now this often happens because our industry can be cyclical.
So, it's important to have a plan to avoid those feast and famine periods that cause you angst. You'll no longer waste money on huge ad budgets, selling specials that eat away at your profits. And isn't that the name of the game, the trick is to keep as much profit as possible while lowering your EV your overhead, right?
And then once you make these shifts to getting cash-paying patients on autopilot, you lock out your competitors and make it impossible for them to steal your patients away because. They're loyal to you and see you as the only choice as well as the best choice. It's like putting golden handcuffs on your patients. So, they wouldn't dream of going anywhere else.
And you'll have an extra 200 K 300 K or more for family activities, hobbies, travel, whatever you like. That means you'll be able to take time off without stressing, so you can actually enjoy yourself without worrying what's happening back at the office. And here's the best part. Once you make these shifts.
You can go back to enjoying your work because you are able to scale and grow a sellable practice or med spa since you'll have cash-paying patients on autopilot. Should you decide to exit in the future or not? It's your choice. Now, just in case you're not familiar with my work. I've been a marketing business consultant to cosmetic practices since the year 2000.
Now my creative strategies have produced more than 21 million for my clients, and I've offered a book and I speak internationally as well as nationally at medical conference says I also have a podcast called beauty in the biz and I train staff on how to convert callers and consultations. And a question I get often is where I'm based out of, and that would be Sausalito California.
Now, if you haven't visited yet, I highly recommend you visit in the fall when our weather is the best and take a helicopter or a sea plane tour to check out the incredible real estate, as well as the use of San Francisco and the golden gate bridge. It's breathtaking. Now you may be asking how I discovered these five shifts that are, I'm going to talk about.
The answer is after consulting with hundreds of cosmetic PR uh, practices for more than two decades, I noted what the top cosmetic practices were doing. Other less successful practices were not. And I shared this with my clients and now they get. Unbelievable results because they made the five key shifts to getting cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And I'm going to walk you through all five of them in this presentation. Now here's shift number one, patient centric versus money centric. Now, when you shift your thinking from a one-and-done money, grab to a patient's for life mindset, you win the long game. Because instead of thinking about your own bottom line and what's best for you, you think about what is best for your patient.
This shift in thinking changes your perspective, as well as your attitude about the services you provide. You now see and treat patients as family and friends. They see your practice as a friendly, safe Haven. They trust you and your staff to take great care of them. That trust is what keeps them coming back again, which is the core tenet of cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And again, now think about it this way. You cater to a very hungry audience of cosmetic patients who care about their appearance. They want to look good and feel great. So, they have endless needs for a lifetime. Thanks to the aging process. Trust me. I know, I know this one. So today they may want Botox, but then down the road, they'll take a laser treatment and now they're ready for surgery.
And then they'll actually go back to of the nonsurgical treatments to keep their look fresh. This goes on for decades. So, commit to treating your patients like friends and family by giving them excellent customer service. And they'll stay with you for the long run. They'll also reciprocate by growing your revenues for you, by returning to you rather than your competitors so that you get more cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And by referring their friends, family, coworkers, and neighbors, and by giving you great online reviews that thousands of other potential patients will see online. And by sharing you on their social media platforms. So, their followers get to know you and contact you because now they're ready for your services.
Think of your cosmetic patients as your life blood, to all you want in life, such as a fulfilling livelihood that affords you a comfortable lifestyle that supports your family, your interest, as well as your financial future. I have to tell you, when you start looking at your patients in this different light, that changes everything, it changes your perspective, as well as your attitude and your patients feel that shift in you and they act accordingly to become cash-paying patients on autopilot.
Now here, shift number two, drop. The discounts. There are really only two reasons why you're not charging higher prices or worse. Why you're discounting your cosmetic services. Now the first one is you think this industry is commoditized and your expertise isn't worth higher prices. Or you think you're going to lose patients to your low-balling competitors, if you don't discount, but here's the thing discounting does not work anymore.
You'll end up attracting cash-paying patients on autopilot price shoppers who only care about a low price you'll work way harder because you need, or of these low-price patients to make up. The difference in the profits and you'll deal with more issues from these penny pinchers, who end up giving you bad reviews and complaining about your service or lack thereof.
And frankly, it's a race to the bottom that you just can't win. So instead, you set higher standards to attract higher value cosmetic patients who gladly pay more for better customer service. now this group enthusiastically brags about you to their other high value friends leaves you five-star reviews, and they're a pleasure to work with when you really get this, it changes everything.
So rather than discount, you set higher standards for better customer service and processes. So, your patients have a wow patient experience every time. That's because you have enough revenues coming in to treat your patients better than if you are penny pinching on expenses and cutting back on the various, uh, things that patients will pay extra for such as smooth processes and feeling special and getting special treatment.
Now in terms of your revenue goals, there's an easier, or there's a harder way to get to a million dollars. for example, you can cater to the price shoppers who are worth only 500 to you. So, you need 2000 of them. Or you can raise your standards, attract better patients who have the financial wherewithal to pay more for a better experience.
And they also become your practice ambassadors who are worth 5,000 to you. So now you only need 200 of them. That is, is the secret to scaling and working less, but getting better results. I sure hope you're hearing me on that one. Now here's shift. Number three, use the secret weapon. Now the majority of cosmetic practices in med spas go about attracting new patients and growing their revenues the wrong way, they typically do what everyone else is doing.
And then wonder why it's not working. Now, oftentimes they don't even know if it's working or not, because they have no easy way of seeing the results. Now here's an example. The old traditional methods of getting new patients are to spend a ton of money on. A new website design or an expensive website redesign or search engine optimization or blogging or back links or TV, infomercials, or PPC, otherwise known as Google AdWords that can really take up your budget or hiring a PR agency or investing in magazine ads or try and group on.
God forbid or investing in directories, such as RealSelf or, um, buying billboards or, you know, investing in charity events, then you have to count on these outside vendors of all these groups to handle everything for you. But you have no idea if it's the, a best way, or even if they did it correctly or at all.
Then you have to decipher complicated reports. They give you that are not easy to understand. So, you actually have no clue what's happening. And if this is money well spent because you can't track anything or most of it. And, and then here's the thing. Maybe you will get new patient. But that's what we call the hope and pray marketing approach.
You hope it's money well spent and then you pray, you get new patients from it. So, you feel like you made a good investment. I'm sure you've been there before now. There is a better way. And here is the secret weapon. It's a creative loyalty rewards club. That is the most powerful way to scale for predictable revenues without advertising or discounting.
And while turning your existing patients into cash-paying patients on autopilot and raving fans, who gladly grow your practice for you. So no longer worry about. Slow spells and covering your overhead. It does all of this while developing lasting relationships with happy patients, you and you and your staff enjoy working with now, here is how you use a loyalty reward system to 10 X, your revenues.
You encourage your patients to return more often refer their friends to you, give you great reviews that thousands of other prospective patients see online and share you on social media with their own followers, this all leading to new patients for you organically without you spending an extra dime.
So, the new way is simple. You pull your entire list of existing patients and it doesn't matter how long, uh, it's been since they've been in to see you many will return after being gone for many, many years. Now you make a marketing plan to consistently stay in front of these patient. So, your top of mind, and when they're ready, they choose you.
Then you reward them for their loyalty and for helping you grow your practice and reputation online, for example, you make it fun for your patients to grow your practice for you by rewarding them into becoming cash-paying patients on autopilot. When they return more often refer their friends and family, write you a review. Approve their before and after photos to be used in your marketing, share you on social media, shoot a video testimonial, telling everyone how great you are and how much they love their result.
And completing surgery can be optional. And when your patients collect enough rewards at different tier levels, their awarded with free cosmetic services and isn't that what everybody wants more cosmetic services. Now I'd like you to meet Dr. Thompson and his wife, Sharon. Now their cosmetic practice is in a very competitive area of New Jersey.
They were concerned about spending several thousands of dollars every month on advertising to compete. And attract new patients, but that was bringing them poor quality leads and wasting Sharon's time. Following up. They were also losing patients to their competitors who were discounting like crazy. So, they implemented a raving fans club and were rewarded with cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And what happened next was pretty darn amazing. Within just two months of working together, they already made 169 K on nonsurgical revenues, as well as getting 34 new signups, 14 new patient referrals, seven Google reviews and five social media shares that introduce, use them to new prospective patients online.
Fast forward seven months and they increase their revenues to 450 K of nonsurgical revenues as well as 64 new patient signups, 38 new patient referrals, 10 Google reviews and 18 social media shares. And they were thrilled to change the conversation from discounting to adding value and their patients loved it.
They were also able to discontinue expensive advertising. They did so well with their cash-paying patients on autopilot because they treat their patients like family and friends, and they wanted to thank their patients for their loyalty without cheapening their services. So, this was a win-win for them and their patients. So, let's do a quick recap.
Now at this point, we know that we must be patient centric versus money centric, drop the discounting and use the secret weapon, which is the loyalty rewards program to command that price point you want. Now let's look at how to scale your practice using the resources you already have. So, here's shift number four.
Retention is the new attraction because of intense competition and the internet and social media. It's gotten increasingly more or difficult, more technical, more confusing, and more time consuming to attract new cosmetic patients. I'm sure you're painfully aware of that. So, retaining your cosmetic patients has become the most direct route to more cosmetic revenues.
And if you're not sure about that, consider these recent stats showing you how it costs seven times more to attract new patients than to retain existing cash-paying patients on autopilot. And this is interesting loyal patients spend 67% more. Than new patients do. Now, my sources for this came from SCM rush and profit. Well, and look at this, the average new patient conversion rate is only five to 20%.
While the average existing patient conversion rate is a whopping 70 to 80%. An existing patients spend 31% more on their average order size value. Now this makes sense because your existing patients, they already know you. They like you. They trust you, and they're much more open to your recommendations as well as your extra products or services that you offer.
Also, a 5% increase in retention can increase your profits by 25 to 95% because you are no longer wasting money on needless advertising or hurting your profits by discounting. You're also not wasting a ton of time following up on bad leads. And on top of that, your conversion rate is so much better. So, your valuable time is spent with patients who actually say yes, rather than price shopper, strangers who never book.
And lastly, 46% of patients spend more after they join a loyalty program and become cash-paying patients on autopilot. And 83% of patients say a loyalty program will keep them coming back. This is how you leverage your time with your preferred patients. Who are worth 10 times more to you and you stop wasting your time and money with those who nickel and dime you and then bolt for the next special deal from your competitors?
Now I'd like you to meet Dr. Duffy who's in private practice in a very competitive area in Florida. Now he wanted to increase his patient's lifetime value with surgical and nonsurgical revenues. So, he could decrease discounting and advertising costs. Now he also did not want to be the only revenue general Raider in the practice because he wanted more free time to spend with his family.
So, to address his concerns, we implemented a cash-paying patients on autopilot raving fans club and here's what happened within six months. He had 52 word of mouth referrals, 140 online reviews, 67 surgeries for a profit of over 1.3 million, by the way, they also had increased their patient's average value by 14%. Not bad. So, let's move on to final shift number five, and that is invest in expertise.
Everyone should have a mentor or council that gives them new ideas and provides accountability. Now in your case, your mentors were seasoned surgeons showing you the way of surgery. So, they were your mentors. Now, in this case, we've been talking about the business and marketing side of surgery. So, I'll bet there are new ideas forming in your head right now.
That would not be there. If, if you hadn't taken the time for this presentation. So, here's how it works. It starts with your mindset and your beliefs about what is possible. Then you take action and actually do something based on those beliefs. And then you get an outcome which is typically an increase in your income, your happiness.
And your satisfaction. However, if you are not happy with the revenues in your practice, that means you either need a new mindset, a new plan or possibly accountability. So frankly, you need an experience mentor who can pave the way to your progress and show you the show to get cash-paying patients on autopilot. Now all of the above is possible if, and only if you're committed to growth and just like you invested in becoming a surgeon, because trying to do that without proper training would be absolutely crazy.
I mean, by the way, I personally have invested at least 140 a. In training and mentoring on the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. And every time it was a huge decision as it was when you invested all that time and money to become a surgeon. Now that investment pays for itself over and over.
Doesn't it. So, the point is don't go it alone. Find the best expertise out there and then spend what it takes to work with them. So, I'd like you to meet Dr. Langdon. He runs a cosmetic surgery and laser center in Connecticut. Now he has an established practice, so he wanted to cut down on his advertising and build up the me spa side of his practice.
So, we implemented the cash-paying patients on autopilot raving fan club and here are the amazing results he got. Last year, he signed up 256 new patients and increased his patients spend by 35 point 38%. He also increased his patients visits by 48 point 20%. Now his total profits after cost were over 606 K. And that was just on his nonsurgical side of his practice.
So, when I started this presentation, I promised to uncover how to 10 X your revenues using the resources you already have without wasting time and money on advertising or discounting your services or performing on social media to gain followers. I also, I also promised how to Inc reach the number of visits.
Referrals reviews and shares on social media in a fun way. So, your existing patients enthusiastically grow your practice for you. I also promise to show you how to generate the preferred patients you want whenever you want at the price you want, and to have a system in place on autopilot. So, there's no need for additional staff when you have a system that gives you cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And, with the option to expand, now that predictable revenues are coming in. If that's what you want to do or just relax and enjoy the increased revenues either way. The point is it's your choice. So, to recap, here are five shifts that you need to make to win shift one patient centric versus money centric shift two.
Drop the discounting shift three, the secret weapon shift four retention is the attraction and shift five invest in expertise. Now these five shifts alone are enough to propel you to a multi-million-dollar practice. You are more than proud of. So. Here we are. Now you have a choice. You can stay stuck and keep throwing money at advertising that isn't working.
And it's wasting your time on consultations that don't book, or you can give up all together and just watch your patients and revenue slip away. And now you can't get them back, but that is going to lead to more struggle, longer and burnout, especially when new competitors open up shop nearby, which makes you even more vulnerable to losing patients to them.
So, you can go down that road or if you are done with all of that and want a predictable and scalable way to more cash-paying patients on autopilot who gladly pay the price you ask and have the lifestyle and thriving practice, you've always dreamed of while 10, Xing your revenues. So, you have more free time for your family and outside interest.
Then here's what I have for you. I've set side time this week to speak with you personally, about how you can apply these ideas to your practice today. So, whatever your biggest challenges are, I've seen it all. And I know how to overcome them. Just like I've helped all other surgeons to get cash-paying patients on autopilot. Now on this, we're going to do a phone session.
We can craft a step-by-step game plan to hit your income goals for this year, whether that's 50,000 a month or 500,000 a month, doesn't matter. And for attracting the exact patients you want to work with. Now what I'm, what am I going to charge for this phone session? The cost is absolutely free. Of course, there's always a catch when something is free and the catch is this really isn't for everyone, you must be focused on cosmetic patients, only no insurance patients and no paper charts.
You must be digital and be able to save your patient list as an Excel file. And you must offer friendly customer service. Now, if you can say yes to those three points, then please book a session. Now. now you may be wondering why I'm doing this. And the answer is I do this because I love helping cosmetic practices achieve their goals and gain more cash-paying patients on autopilot.
And I've committed to this for the last 22 years. So many practices struggled needlessly because they just don't know a better way. And in, I want to help with that. Now I know that you two might want my help to transform your own practice. If so, we can discuss it to see if it's a good fit for both of us.
And if it is terrific, and if it's not, that's fine too. So, to book that call simply go to https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/. And I'll spell that for you. It's Catherine C as in, or as in https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/. Now spaces are very limited. So please sign up now. And when you click that link, you're going to see a calendar.
I'd like to select the day and time that works best for you. And then what's going to happen is you'll be redirected to a very short application form. Just fill that out and give me more information about you so I can prepare and research for our call. So, we spend our time wisely. Then, what we'll do is jump on the call at the time you chose.
And we can talk about how I can help you get to high six or seven figures in your own practice with cash-paying patients on autopilot. I promise you it's going to be the best 30 minutes you've spent working on your practice ever now to wrap this up, I want to tell you about one more client, you to mine, and they're called Austin Weston. Now it's an old established multis surgeon practice in Virginia.
With tons of competition, they've had a big patient list and they realized it would be probably faster, cheaper, and smarter to retain these patients than lose them to their competitors. So last year they implemented a cash-paying patients on autopilot raving fans club and they were quite pleased with their results. Look at this four or listen to these 456 new patient signups 84 consultation requests.
81 reviews, 11 video testimonials and over a million dollars in nonsurgical revenues. So, to get results like that, go to https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/ now to schedule your own call. Okay, hopefully you now see how you can make some simple shifts to 10 X, your own revenues using the resources you already have without advertising or discounting your services.
But while simultaneously increasing the number of patient visits, referrals, reviews, and shares on. So social media. I really hope you got a lot out of this and please be sure to go to https://www.catherinemaley.com/free-strategy-session/. And I look forward to speaking with you soon.
Announcer: We hope you found valuable insight on this episode of Beauty and the Biz for more episodes tools and Catherine's free book.
Visit https://www.catherinemaley.com. That's https://www.catherinemaley.com and be sure to subscribe, to get the latest practice building strategies delivered to you. And don't forget to share this Beauty and the Biz podcast with your staff and colleagues.
Of course, please call or text me if you need clarity or want to learn more about getting cash-paying patients on autopilot.
Catherine Maley, MBA β’ Author, Your Aesthetic Practice β’ Cosmetic Patient Attraction AND Conversion Specialist
Catherine@CosmeticImageMarketing.com
Cell/Text: (415) 377-8700
http://www.CosmeticImageMarketing.com
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons #patientsonautopilot #cashpayingpatientsonautopilot
β¬οΈ β¬οΈ β¬οΈ
Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business side of cosmetic surgery and how you want a smooth-running practice.
If youβre working too hard and want to streamline your practice so it runs like a well-oiled machineβ¦so you can unplug, relax, and have a system in place that does the work FOR you so you can spend more time with your family WHILE you get excellent results from your patientsβ¦.this podcast is for you.
The most successful, profitable smooth-running practice doesn't happen by accident.
The surgeons running the best smooth-running practices have learned the core success principles that are MANDATORY for you to build a practice you are proud of and enjoy going to every day.
Otherwise, whatβs the point of working so hard?
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz podcast episode, βWant a Smooth-Running Practice?β lays out what it takes to build an enviable practice you can enjoy until you drop or you can sell for a profitable exitβ¦.itβs your choice!
P.S. Iβm practically giving away the βThe MBA for Plastic Surgeons Courseβ this week in honor of St. Patrickβs Day. Since Iβm super Irish, I want to give you the βLuck of the Irishβ so you create a βpot of goldβ when you have your own smooth-running practice.
Click Here to Grab the Course for this never-before offered low price.
https://apple.co/3tsQuta
Want a Smooth-Running Practice? The (4) Core Success Principles Needed
After working with surgeons for more than 22 years, I understand how difficult it can be for you to juggle staff, patients, family, and overhead as well as grow your practice at the same time so I feel your pain and do what I can to simplify things for you.
The objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so itβs more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with.
So in this podcast, youβll get:
- Clarity as to how to run your practice like a business and that will give you peace of Mind and
- More Free time to enjoy your life, hobbies, family, special interests and
- That means youβll be more productive without working harder but youβll be achieving better results.
So, weβll be covering topics including mindset, team-building, leadership, marketing and systems strategies you need for leverage to think bigger, do better and earn moreβ¦ all while enjoying the process.
Because as Ralph Waldo Emerson said:
βUnless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never growβ.
You already mastered surgery so now letβs master the business and marketing side of surgery.
THAT is what catapults you to success and a more certain future.
So Letβs Start with Mindset
As a surgeon, you were programmed to think in a certain fixed way.
You had to think that way to become a great surgeon.
However, that thinking is the opposite of how a businessperson has to think.
For example,
You most likely put more value on YOU as a surgeon vs. growing your staff and your systems and you work IN your practice rather than work ON your practice
Michael Gerber explains it well in his excellent book the βEMyth, Why Most Small Businesses don't work and What to do About itβ. Basically, he says to run a successful business, you need (3) key players:
The Entrepreneur to come up with new ideas to keep up with the times;
The Manager to set up the processes and people so things run smoothly; and
The Technician to actually do the key work that makes a profit.
So, in a cosmetic practice, you, the surgeon, are the technician but youβre also juggling the jobs of the entrepreneur and the manager and that takes different skill sets.
Thatβs not a good use of your time and it will not get you to your financial goals.
So, weβre going to change that up for you because when you set up systems, you and your staff get clarity. And when you remove the complexity, results happen because βMoney is Made in the Processesβ.
Hereβs the first big mindset shift:
βOperate your practice like itβs for saleβ.
In other words, regularly ask yourself,
βIf I wanted to sell my practice tomorrow, what would I need to improve to get the most value for it?β
or,
βIf I wanted to buy an existing practice, what would βIβ be looking for and be willing to invest in?
Itβs smart to figure this out now rather than wait until itβs too late.
Because the goal is to have an asset to sell, or at least to enjoy, for the rest of your career.
Because the alternative is you donβt do anything to improve but then you must know, youβve only created a job for yourself. Thatβs not a bad thing if thatβs what you want. But the goal is to be sure youβre clear what youβre working towards so youβre satisfied with the outcome.
Ok, enough said. Letβs get on with it.
Here are the (4) Core Success Principles Needed to Grow a Sellable Cosmetic Practice:
- Building a Team of Rock Stars
- Strategic Marketing and Planning
- Setting Standards so You Donβt Compete on Price and that includes Differentiating Yourself from Your Competitors and
- Setting Yourself Up to Grow and/or Exit when youβre Ready (and that includes Leadership Skills and Managing Metrics)
Success Principle #1:
Build a Team of Rock Stars
Hiring the right team for your practice will be your biggest challenge but also your greatest asset. Because itβs all about the WHO.
Jim Collins, Author of Good to Great) says:
βThe most important decisions that business people make are not
βwhatβ decisions, but βwhoβ decisions.
What typically happens is surgeons want to fix the staffing problem quickly, so when a staff person leaves, you have a tendency to hire fast to fill the position but then you have to deal with bad hires who donβt fit your values or your culture.
And, you know all-too-well what bad hires cost you:
- You canβt rely on them;
- They are adding stress to your day and maybe even your nights when youβre trying to sleep;
- They have a negative impact on you, your other staff and your bottom line; and
- And did you know a bad hire costs at least 15X their salary in lost productivity?
By the way, there are usually warning signs when staff goes βbadβ:
- They become moody
- Treat other members badly
- Donβt care anymore
- Bad attitude
- Excessive time off
- Come in late and/or leave early
- Donβt participate or contribute
That is a problem that is not going away so do everyone a favor and take care of it sooner rather than later.
So your new motto isβ¦.. Hire Slow β Fire Fast
The point is to take more time at the beginning to choose the right team players so you save a lot of time and grief at the end trying to deal with a toxic staff person who is just not cutting it.
And, be sure you have the right people doing the right jobs.
There is a saying in business,
βGet the right people on the bus and then get them in the right seatsβ
For example, certain staff should be on the front lines because they have excellent people skills and other staff have analytical skills and are better suited behind the scenes.
And hereβs another mind shift changeβ¦.
View staff as an asset vs. a liability.
The team supporting you IS your secret practice-building weapon when it comes to patient-relations since they spend more time with your patients than you do.
Staff can make or break your cosmetic practice so be sure you have the right people representing you.
They are your leverage.
You canβt do it all alone, nor should you want to.
When you hire the right people, give them the right tools and hold them accountable, they handle the majority of the practice so you donβt have to.
And that leads us to β¦β¦
Where do you Find Rock Stars?
Start with people your staff knows. Your staff knows you and the practice and they know who would fit well with the rest of the staff and they also know they have to vouch for and work with this person so they will be careful to choose someone who will make them look good.
But hereβs the pearl β offer a bounty but spread it out.
That will motivate them even more to be sure they bring you the best talent and that they succeed.
Then if youβve exhausted your staffβs contacts, put the word out on social media to your followers. They can cast a wide net by sharing your βhelp wantedβ post.
Then ask your vendors since they are βfeet on the streetβ and they know which practices are closing, moving, and so on.
Then look to your own service providers like the receptionist who works at the high-end hair salon you get your hair cut or the friendly sales staff who help you pick out new clothes.
And keep your eyes open when you are at 5-star restaurants or your country club. Those employees already have the customer-service mindset and could be a great fit for your practice.
Lastly, cast a wider net by Advertising on linkedin.com, Indeed, and ZipRecruiter.com
Youβre doing this to prove to yourself that there is no shortage of talent out there so you donβt have to take just anyone. Be selective.
When interviewing, use a list of questions to help you determine how articulate, confidant and assertive they are as well as where they see themselves going in life.
Youβll also use their answers to see how consistent they are when you talk with them in personβ¦β¦..should they get that far.
As a side note, you want to Google them to check out their social media to see how they represent themselves online.
If they do well on the phone interview, do a 2nd interview via Facetime and ask more questions. You are checking out their demeanor, how articulate they are, if they show up on time, etc.
If all goes well, have them come in for a live interview. You want to follow up with questions that start with βWhatβ and βHowβ and βTell Me Moreβ.
For example, if they have experience in our industry, ask:
- What did you do to help promote the practice?
- How did you grow patient retention?
- Tell me more about whatever else they bragged about doing at their last job.
By the way, here are some red flags to watch for when youβre interviewing someone:
- They blame, criticize and make excuses for their failures
- Cannot explain job moves
- Speaks badly of past bosses
So, if you are feeling good about them, have them spend time with your staff so you can then compare notes since you will all have different perspectives.
Then sleep on it. And if you believe this is your new a-player, then have them come back again and preferably at lunch hour with you and your team so you can see how they act in a more relaxed atmosphere. Either go out to lunch and see how they act towards the wait staff, or have lunch brought in and see how they act in general.
Success Principle #2:
Strategic Marketing & Planning
Now weβll move on to Strategic Marketing & Planning where you will discoverβ¦
- What the most successful practices focus on to gain market share;
- How to increase your revenues by up to 33%;
- How to set up a SYSTEM for creating a powerful 12-month marketing plan to Predictably and Reliably keep a steady stream of patients coming to you;
- Increase your average patientβs lifetime value so that EVERY patient is worth more to youβ¦today, tomorrow and far into the future; and
- Generate more referrals for your practice without hoping, guessing or waiting for your patients to βmention your nameβ because youβll have a system to make referrals happen like clockwork.
You are painfully aware of how the relentless competition is making it more difficult for you to succeed so you need to approach patient attraction more strategically.
You stop for a minute and think this through before you keep throwing money at the problem because hereβs a quote that says it all:
βThe key to success is not doing more itβs doing more of what worksβ
Please donβt take that lightly. I watch so many practices go from one shiny object to the next, hoping that will solve their problems. They throw money at all sorts of Internet, advertising and marketing companies who promise them the world but then donβt deliver and now they donβt trust anybody and are skeptical.
Let me give you another easier way to figure this outβ¦
Be strategic by focusing on increasing the 5 Key Metrics that grow a cosmetic practice and those are:
# of Leads
# of Appointments
# of Consultations
# of Conversions
# of Retention
Hereβs the pointβ¦ You may be focused on the wrong thing, such as more new leads.
Please remember β leads are only 1 part of it.
That means a lead is just a lead until you get them through your processes to a YES. Otherwise itβs a dead lead going nowhere. Which means you are just burning money on lead generation and NOT conversion and retention.
Before you invest in any more new patient-attraction shiny objects, plug up the holes in your systems that are costing you a silent fortune. Thatβs where youβll see new profits more quickly and easily.
Itβs quality over quantity, which means you do less but get a better result because you slow down and go deeper into the numbers that are telling you the truth.
So, Letβs go over each metric and start with the one you like the mostβ¦ the # of Leads.
I know you want more patients so that means you need to increase the # of leads coming to your practice so the question becomesβ¦..
Where are the new patients?
The answer is they are everywhere and nowhere.
Prospective cosmetic patients are clicking around like crazy so you have a nano second to catch their attention long enough for them to stop β notice and click on your website.
Here are some suggestionsβ¦.
For the foreseeable future, Google rules the world so do what they like and youβll have a better chance of get ranked over your competitors.
In a nutshell, Google likes fresh new content, before/after photos and lots and lots of reviews particularly on Google.
Google also want you to βpay to playβ youβre found in the search rankings, but the downside is Google Adwords can cost you a fortune so you need to work with someone who knows what theyβre doing.
So hereβs my advice: I would have a new rule anytime you are considering any kind of advertising or marketing effort and that is:
If you canβt track it, donβt invest in it.
Itβs too expensive and itβs too easy with todayβs technology to track so you no longer have to guess at your marketingβs effectiveness.
Hereβs another easier and faster approach to growing your practice:
Follow your successes.
This is so obvious; itβs easily missed. Itβs also a more positive way to look at your practice because this is where all of your hard work paid off and where patients chose you and gave you money so you want more of them.
As Peter Drucker, the guru of business said quite succinctly:
βThe Purpose of Business is To Create AND Keep a customerβ
Hereβs an exercise to help you identify your successes:
Go through your schedule and note at least the last 40 surgeries or big-ticket procedures you performed.
You want to know how they heard about you.
- Did they find you on the Internet randomly?
- Were they referred to you by a friend?
- Or were they a current patient coming back for more?
You also want to note the procedure they had as well as the demographics such as age and zip code because you will see trends that youβll want to capitalize on and budget proportionately to those successes.
Once you decide who your preferred patients are, you map out a Marketing Mix plan to reach new Internet stranger patients as well as a plan to encourage your current patients to return for more and refer more of their friends.
You do this with a marketing mix plan:
You set up a system to get found on the internet by stranger patients using SEO & content, before/after photos and patient reviews AND you also set up a system for your current patients to return and refer their friends using text, email, social media and word-of-mouth referrals.
#2 metrics is the # of Appointments
You can get leads all day but can your receptionist convert them to a scheduled appointment with you?
In a nutshell, here are the 5 phone fixes that make all the difference in your receptionist being able to book a caller to an appointment:
- Answer the phone within 2 rings with a friendly, warm voice & greeting
- Ask How They Heard About You
- Promote you, the Surgeon, as the best choice
- ASK for the Appointment
- Collect Contact Info
Please be sure you have the right person representing you on the phones and check out my Phone Club if they need training.
Then #3 metric is the # of Consultations
How many of the prospective patients who book an appointment actually shows up?
You and your patient coordinator block time for a consultation, and if your prospective patients are not showing up for their appointments, your valuable time is wasted not to mention the wasted time and money because now your staff is standing around.
So, hereβs what you do. First, you establish a cancellation policy and then live by it. For example, you get their credit card upfront and either a charge a consultation fee or at least charge a reservation fee that is charged ONLY if they do not cancel or reschedule within 48 hours.
You also have your patient coordinator conduct a pre-consult call to introduce herself and to prepare the patient to show up ready to say yes.
This pre-consult call will help you get to a yes at the consult and eliminate no-shows.
#4 metric is # of Converted Consultations
How well do you and your patient coordinator convert consultations into procedures? Everything that happened until this point is just βpre-marketingβ.
You donβt get paid for consultations. You only get paid if you can successfully convert a consultation into a paid procedure. Therefore, THIS step has the biggest impact on your bottom line. The better you convert consultations into procedures, the more revenues youβll make for your practice.
Here are strategies to help you convert:
Use video to give yourself celebrity status. Psychologically, your image is enhanced when prospective patients see you on a screen no matter what size.
Shoot a βwelcome to my practiceβ video as well as procedural videos and testimonial videos so patients get a feel for your expertise and are more comfortable with you and see you as the expert and best choice.
And then your patient coordinator must be trained to convert a consultation which is an entirely separate training but I will say the #1 skill I see coordinators are lacking in is in asking for the decision so please get them the scripts & structure they need and watch your conversions increase immediately. Check out my Converting Club at www.catherinemaley.com.
#5 metric is Patient Retention
Itβs 7X more expensive to attract a new patient than to keep a current patient so please take this metric as seriously as you do new leads.
Because if your patients are NOT returning and referring their friends, something is wrong. They are still getting aesthetic rejuvenation. They are just not getting it FROM YOU anymore so it would behoove you to figure this out.
You cater to a very hungry audience with endless needs. The patients who care about how they look and feel have all sorts of concerns you can address NOW AND for years to come thanks to the relentless aging process.
Cosmetic Patients enter your practice through many doors. That means a patient who came in for Botox will often work their way up the ladder to surgery or other big-ticket procedures and those who came in for surgery are much more likely to now be open to your non-surgical procedures and skin care treatments to stay looking good and feeling great.
You have so much leverage here because you already did the hard part, which was spending time, money, and effort attracting this patient to you. Now it takes only minimal effort to keep them coming back.
Now hereβs Success Principle #3:
Set Standards so You Donβt Compete on Price
In this section, youβll discover:
- How to set standards so you are NOT competing on price
- What you can do to be different and stand out from your competitors
- How to get the patient to see you as the BEST choice
Hereβs a popular question I get from surgeons:
Q: βI am losing consultations to lower-priced competitors even though I have more skill and expertise than they do. Iβve even βrepairedβ their work. How should I be pricing my services to compete? I donβt want to lower my prices because I know Iβm good but I also donβt want to miss out on new patients.β
One of the reasons this happens is because if the cosmetic patient truly believes there is no difference between other physicians and surgeons, all they have to go on is price as their determining factor. But we know thereβs way more to it.
If aesthetic rejuvenation was based solely on price, this would always be about the lowest price and that would turn into a race to the bottom and then nobody wins.
Itβs only about price until YOU add in other determining factors to help the prospective patient consider the VALUE they get.
Patients Weigh Their Options
When a cosmetic patient questions your price, they are really doing a cost-benefit analysis in their heads and asking:
βWhat am I getting from you that Iβm NOT getting from your competitor for that higher price?β
Patients select their surgeon based on the perception they are getting βbetterβ. Better really equals more benefits, less risks and/or less hassle and that equals peace of mind, certainty and reassurance.
Actually, contrary to popular belief, the majority of cosmetic patients rarely decide based on price alone. Affordability β yes but price alone β rarely.
Pricing Starts with Your Own Mindset
Get very clear about your value and what you stand for.
Have conviction and believe in yourself and your prices.
If you believe you deserve top dollar because you do great work, then price your services for your βpreferredβ patients. Those are the patients who see you as a skilled, reputable plastic surgeon and they are glad to pay more for your expertise so they can be confident theyβll get a great result and then brag about you to their friends and family.
You determine whatβs most important to those preferred patients and give it to them. For example, is it price, procedures, technology, innovation, expertise, credibility, status, convenience, quality and/or 5-star customer service?
And consistency is key. Your patients learn to trust your brand and expect the same experience and result β every time.
Focus on Preferred Patients
Once you have clarity about your preferred patients, you attract more of them and deter everyone else. Now you and your staff have more time and energy to focus on the serious prospective patients who are looking for quality and service more than saving a few dollars.
How To Differentiate Yourself in a Competitive Marketplace
Itβs your responsibility to educate prospective patients so they see you as the BEST CHOICE at a FAIR price. That takes creativity. Here is a list of specific differentiators to consider:
- Specialist in one procedure
- Advanced/uncommon technology
- Extensive experience
- You are Board Certified
- Attended top medical schools
- Affiliated with top hospitals
- Authored studies, white papers and clinical trials
- You have performed thousands of procedures
- You offer computer imaging when your competitors donβt
- Exceptional facility with views
- Superior results
- Caring personality
- WOW experience
- You are the first to offer a new procedure
- You are a media favorite
- Your office setting is unique (Villa with views)
- Convenience or accessibility
- You personally call patients night of treatment/procedure
- You make house calls
- Waiting times are short
- You remember patient names and details like they were family
- Exceptionally friendly, professional and courteous staff
- You ensure a pain-free treatment or procedure
- You are well known around your community
- You are an author of aesthetic book
- You speak at medical conferences
- You train other physicians
- Vendors make you an elite top tiered practice
- You sit on vendor boards
- You are well known in social media with a huge following
- You are from the town you practice in
- You have special credentials
- You belong to many professional membership societies
- You offer easy pay plans
- You include post-op care in your fees
- You have longer hours
- More patient online reviews
- More before/after photos
- You offer virtual consulting
Come up with your own list and be sure your unique points are integrated into every aspect of the patient experience including your in-house signage, patient welcome package, advertising, public relations, on-hold messaging and new patient calls scripting.
This exercise will not only help YOU get clear about your value, but it will also give your prospective patients clarity about why you charge what you charge. They now understand your value and are more than willing to pay for it.
Success Principle #4:
Leadership
You know youβre doing a good job leading when your practice is running smoothly and your staff is working well together. You have peace of mind itβs running like a well-oiled machine with or without you there.
However, if you feel frustrated like you have to do everything yourself or you feel the need to micro-manage to ensure what you think is getting done is actually getting done, thatβs a red flag.
Because if you feel like nobody cares about your practice like you do, that could mean you did NOT:
- Hire the right people
- Give them the right tools they need to succeed
- And/or youβre not holding them accountable
The reality is you simply cannot build a successful practice by yourself.
Youβve got to have a team supporting you.
Leadership Concepts
This is a big topic so here are the basics and then I urge you to become a student of leadership.
A leader is not born. Like anything else in life, you become a great leader from learning and doing and practicing and getting good at it (just like you did to become a great surgeon).
So, to begin, a good leader is clear about their vision.
Decide now what your vision is. Know thyself.
Are you building an empire or a lifestyle?
You need to know that because it will affect every decision you make.
Then be sure the staff knows your vision so they perform at a high level because they have clarity and know the end result youβre striving for.
For example:
βYou are in the business to make money helping patients look and feel great about themselves. This allows you to pay your staff well so they continue to enjoy their own lives.β
You may even consider adding a bigger vision. For example, you give a % of your revenues to a philanthropic cause you feel strongly about.
That way, you have a bigger βwhyβ which helps when determining the How and the What to do to grow your practice. Because staff works harder, longer and more seriously when they have a bigger Why.
Itβs also nice to give back to the less fortunate and do good in the world.
Now you need a mission statement that acts as your βRules of Conductβ.
A really good exercise for your team is to develop a new mission statement you all can get behind and live by. For example:
βWe strive to add joy to our patientsβ lives through genuine caring,
generosity of spirit, and the quality of our work.β
A good leader also takes good care of his team so they take great care of the patients.
That means you are genuinely interested in them as people first, then as staff.
Show interest in their lives and families and whatβs important to them. Catch them doing things right and thank them often.
A good leader communicates the culture of the practice. For example:
βWe are in business to make money and we do that by taking care of our team so our team takes care of our patients.
We do not say no to patients who give us money β we make time for them because thatβs how we get paid.
We treat every patient the same with kindness and respect. Always with a smile β no matter how many patients or how crazy it is at times.
We acknowledge every referral with a heart-felt thank you and so onβ¦β
And a good leader makes sure the entire group plans as a team, wins as a team and celebrates as a team.
They also give credit for their success to their team knowing it would not have been possible without them.
A good leader gives the staff solid goals they can work towards and have something to strive for that is concrete.
A good leader meets with the team, listens and gets feedback from the team, and lets them brainstorm how they will meet the goals.
A good leader then holds them accountable without micromanaging.
And, team meetings are a must when you run your practice like a business. Hold your meetings on the same day and time so nobody can say they didnβt know about it. Itβs always on the calendar and stick to it for consistency.
This is true team-building and keeps everybody engaged and interacting with the success of the practice.
The agenda of the meeting should be structured and fast-paced with everyone participating by reporting on the numbers they are in charge of. For example:
# Calls
# Email Requests
# Appointments
# No-Shows
# Consultations
# Procedures
# Post-Op Appointments
# Referrals
# Returns
Because you want to know at a glance, if youβre healthy or hurting and thatβs easy to do when you regularly review your numbers.
Bonuses Based on Productivity
We canβt talk about goals without also talking about Perks. There are countless scenarios but hereβs one that makes sense and keeps everyone working together as a team:
Break up staff into teams for each revenue stream such as:
Revenues Stream #1: Surgery
Revenues Stream #2: Lasers & Injectables
Revenues Stream #3: Skin Care + Retail
Assign revenue goals or % of Increase over last year
Perks get bigger for everyone when each revenue stream reaches their goal. The teams will help each other out to reach their goals since the prize gets better; i.e.,
1 team hits their goal = lunch brought in for everyone
2 teams hit their goals = spa day for everyone
3 teams hit their goals = lunch out + shopping $$$ for everyone
And/or another Bonus Structure that works well is:
Gross Sales
- COGS
- O/H U
= Profits of which % goes into a bonus pool and is distributed evenly among the team and/or based on part-time or full-time status.
So, you see how knowing your numbers gives all of you clarity and direction?
It makes it so much easier to identify what you are doing right and what else you could be doing when you have the numbers giving you an accurate story.
Itβs also so much more motivating to staff when they know what they are striving for and why.
Please spend some time customizing your own metrics and perks plan that would work best in your particular practice.
SET UP YOUR PRACTICE TO GROW OR SELL
A good business leader is always planning their exit to build a legacy and get their equity out so letβs talk about Profit Centers.
To recap, youβre doing it right whenβ¦
You have specific metrics in place so you are generating predictable income rather than checking your bank balance to see if thereβs enough to pay the bills.
That means you have a reliable marketing plan as well as processes and systems in place so your practice runs like a well-oiled machine and your staff knows exactly what to do whether youβre in the office or in surgery or on vacation.
The secret is to keep it simple so you and your staff will actually do it!
PROFIT CENTERS
The reality is you canβt do it alone and you probably donβt want to be a 1-man show where you are the only revenue-generator. Thatβs stressful!
When you run your practice like a business, the goal is to get to no more than 30% of your income coming from your own hands.
Thatβs how you set yourself up to grow and it allows for βlifeβs surprisesβ.
For example, I used to run a surgeonβs coaching club with an 8-figure surgeon and he got a phone call at 4:45 pm in the afternoon saying his house was on fire. By the time he got there, it was gone. Nobody got hurt but because he has his practice running so smoothly, it was a distraction rather than devastation.
Here is a simple exercise to get you thinking:
What is Your Per Hour Rate when you are in surgery? $800 - $1,000
What is an RNβs Per Hour Rate? $350 - $500
And what is an aesthetician? $50 - $150
-
Cost of Materials
-
Amount of time to do procedure/tie up room
Hereβs a thought: Would it make more sense to network with aestheticians in the community who could refer to you vs. having in-house aestheticians tying up an exam room for $100/hour when getting another nurse injector could be more profitable?
And here are other questions to ask yourself:
- What are the opportunity costs of you doing everything?
- What COULD you be doing to make more hourly?
(Perhaps spending more time with high-revenue patients, following up personally, networking, answering questions on RealSelf, etc.)
Because sometimes, one of the smartest questions you can ask yourself is:
What are you going to stop DOING that is costing you time, money, effort & hassle?
However, there are 2 thoughts processes here when it comes to keeping or delegating injectables:
- You like doing the injectables to bond with your patients or
- You delegate them so you have more time to spend with the higher-revenue patients
There is no right answer. There is just a right answer for you so please think about what makes most sense for you.
Here is what I have seen work best in a solo practice:
Since surgery is the most profitable revenue stream,
You set up your other profit centers to feed the surgery.
The most popular revenue generators are:
Nurse injectors, laser technicians and aestheticians that can also perform high-ticket procedures and sell retail; however, they too need:
- Goals
- Tools
- Accountability
For example, their goals are:
- to take great care of patients
- to give them the best result possible
- to refer them to you, the surgeon, whenever an opportunity comes up to do so
Then give them tools to do just that. For example,
- Their treatment rooms should show off your excellent surgical work using signage and digital photo frames so the visiting patients ask about surgery.
- Now your staff can hand them a VIP surgical comp card and set up a surgical consultation with you.
- This provides the paper trail for accountability you need.
And you know for a fact, which staff members are promoting you or not.
- However, they must know βwhatβs in if for themβ to promote you because they donβt want to lose their patients to you especially if you have given them a revenue goal to hit, nor do you want to get into fee-splitting issues so what do you do?
- You could increase their hourly fee when they prove to be a good referral source or give them a night out on the town or add more to their bonus.
The objective is to acknowledge and thank your revenue-generators for their commitment to the betterment of the entire practice β not just their piece of the practice.
What about Additional Profit Centers like Adding:
-
Veins
-
Hair Restoration
-
Anti-Aging
-
Dermatologist and so on?
TIP: Hire SLOWLY because you can lose a ton of time and money on this.
Here are the criteria to help you determine if itβs a go/no-go:
- Do they fit your culture and have the same values?
- Is their profitability at least 10-15%?
- Do they act as a feeder to your ultimate goal, which is surgery?
- Do you have to buy equipment and, if so, does it pay for itself within 2 years because technology will NOT drive your practice β people do?
- How much of YOUR time is going to be involved?
- Can you systemize it?
- Whatβs the competition like?
- How much is it going to cost for you to promote this new service in your marketplace?
- Is this a distraction taking away from more profitable revenue generators?
- Do you like the βBusiness Sideβ of practicing; i.e., meeting with accountants, lawyers and consultants?
- Are you bringing them on as a partner or will you be the benevolent dictator until they buy in to succeed you?
- Do you enjoy solving problems?
- Do you enjoy managing people and maximizing human potential?
If not, bigger is not always better.
But if you decide to move forward, you need accurate cost accounting for each revenue stream so your books MUST BE in order.
Otherwise, you will never truly know if itβs profitable or if it should be dropped.
THEFT AND EMBEZZLEMENT
You can never be 100% sure that you are foolproof but here are tips to help:
- Sloppy systems open you up to trouble.
- Donβt tempt anyone.
- Tighten up your processes so they know you are on your game and watching.
To keep track of non-surgical monies, use a control document Day Sheet that is multi-carbon pages and numbered.
- Staff makes out the day sheet the night before so all of the patientsβ names are on there already;
- I sheet goes into a 1-way box that night so staff canβt take a cash-patientβs name off of it;
- 1 goes into the box with the cash and 2 people have to sign the envelope;
- and 1 is given to the patient.
You also:
- Keep a laser logbook to know how many pulses were used
- Keep a Botox log for how many units were used and for whom
- Keep a skin care retail products inventory log
- And outsource all insurance billing
The easiest thing you can do to avoid problems is for you, the surgeon, to personally open all bank and credit card statements to review all debits and checks issued to be sure they make sense.
You then use a red pen and circle questions you have for your bookkeeper so they know you are watching closely.
And, always match disbursements with checks and transfers. Then put the statement back into the envelope, write reviewed by with your initials and off it goes to your bookkeeper.
This takes 10 minutes and can avoid massive grief down the road.
EXIT STRATEGIES
It has been said the only reason to have a business/practice is to grow and sell it.
So, the question is⦠What is my practice worth?
This is tricky because you want to get paid for the risk and effort it took for you to build a name for yourself. For the blood, sweat, tears and goodwill that went into building your practice as well as your reputation.
But thatβs intangible which makes it difficult to put a price on it.
So, you turn to tangible and financial assets such as the office building if you bought it, the equipment, the furniture, inventory, A/R if any MINUS the liabilities such as payroll taxes, loans, and retirement plan contributions.
Thereβs a lot more that goes into this but Iβll leave that for the lawyers and accountants.
Hereβs a more practical way to look at it from a business point of view:
βYou, the seller has a ready-made income stream to sell. The buyer is looking for a ready-made income stream to buy. In business, that is what value is all about.β
But hereβs the reality when itβs all said and doneβ¦
The bottom line is your practice is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.
So, think about it. What would YOU be willing to pay for if YOU were going to buy someone elseβs practice?
That brings us back to the assets I mentioned early on:
- The Profit
- People
- Processes
- Tools
- Patient List
- P&L Statements
- Vendor Agreements are all of value BUT in order to present these assets to a potential buyer,
You have to have your act together.
The buyer is looking for an assetβs ability to generate cash with a degree of certainty and limited risk so you need to show a prospective buyer how you have built a cash cow.
You do that with a Cosmetic Patient Blueprint so they see how you keep a steady stream of patients and revenue coming in.
And you show them your systems and processes that keep your office running smoothly and your staff on their game.
And you show them your constant review of your metrics to show the health of your well-oiled machine.
Then you show them your clean and organized books and that includes not overextending yourself with too much debt since there is a big difference between income and actual profits.
And there you have it.
The 4 Core Success Principles for running your practice like a business:
- Build a Team of Rock Stars
- Strategic Marketing and Planning
- Setting Standards so You Donβt Compete on Price and that includes Differentiating Yourself from Your Competitors and
- Setting Yourself Up to Grow and/or Exit when youβre Ready
(and that includes Leadership Skills and Managing Metrics)
I covered a lot here and there is much more to each principle but you have plenty to start with.
Of course, please call or text me if you need clarity
Catherine Maley, MBA β’ Author, Your Aesthetic Practice β’ Cosmetic Patient Attraction AND Conversion Specialist
Catherine@CosmeticImageMarketing.com
Cell/Text: (415) 377-8700
http://www.CosmeticImageMarketing.com
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons #davidmandell #ojmgroup #wealthplanningforsurgeons
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3 Ways to Save on Taxes with David Mandell, JD, MBA (Ep.143)
Hello,
I know, I knowβ¦
Taxes are NOT a very sexy topic; UNTIL you see how much fun it is to pay the least amount of taxes legally.
I learned this the hard way when I was a sales rep for a fortune 500 and they would withhold 50% of my commissions for taxes. Boy I wish I knew about these 3 Ways to Save on Taxes back then!
And then when I started my own business over 20 years ago, I learned about all sorts of extra taxes service providers like surgeons and consultants pay, which David will be discussing today with his 3 Ways to Save on Taxes.
Thatβs when I read Rich Dad/Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and it blew my mind.
Itβs all about how much you keep β NOT how much you make.
So, I invited tax attorney David Mandell on to talk about preserving wealth while reducing taxes and about his 3 ways to save on taxes.
David is a partner of OJM Group in Ft. Lauderdale, FL and an authority in the fields of risk management, asset protection, wealth planning, and ways to save on taxes.
He speaks at the same conferences I do, and his firm has authored several books on ways to save on taxes, with the latest being βWealth Planning for the Modern Physicianβ that I started reading but lawyers wrote it so its 316 pages ;-)
He offers it for free to my podcast audience so listen in for the special code he gave us.
Enjoy!
https://apple.co/3tsQuta
http://www.ojmbookstore.com
Transcript:
3 Ways to Save on Taxes with David Mandell, JD, MBA
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, normally I interview surgeons, but today. I have a special treat. We have a lawyer and his name is David Mandell. He's JD and MBA. I have an MBA too. And you have on top of that, you have, you have some good degrees there. He's a partner at OJM Group in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. He's also an authority in the fields of risk management, asset protection, as well as wealth planning.
Now, David writes speaks, and he's been interviewed by Bloomberg and Fox TV. He also has a website and podcasts on these topics. He also speaks at the various medical conferences and that's how we met. And his firm has authored several books with the latest being wealth planning for the modern physician.
As a matter of fact, I bought the book thinking that I could read it before our interview. It turns out it's, it's a lawyer book, of course. So, it's 316 pages. So, I did not get a chance to start it or finish it. So, I've invited him to Beauty and the Biz to talk about taxes. Now, taxes are not a very sexy topic until, and I have a caveat here, until you learn how much fun it is to save on taxes.
And keep your money that, and you do it legally. Of course, now I learned this the hard way. When I was a sales rep in a fortune 500 company, a million years ago, they used to keep 50% of my commission checks on taxes. And I was shocked at that. And then when I started my own business more than 20 years ago, I learned about all sorts of new taxes that service providers, such as surgeons and consultants were paying on.
That's when I read Rich dad, poor dad by Robert Kiyosaki, and that just blew my mind. His whole theme is it's all about how much you keep, not how much you make. And I thought, huh, that's a new, way to think. So, in a nutshell, I love that book. I highly recommend everybody read it like 14 times. In a nutshell, he came up with these four cashflow quadrants and they were based on where the money comes from.
And those are "E" for employees. "A" for small business or self-employed, and that's where all of us hang around "B" for big business and "I" for investment and the employees and the small business paid the heaviest taxes where the big business and the investors pay minimal or no taxes. And boy, did I learn a lot about that!
So, the point is. Learning these creative strategies that are available to all of us, especially through David. You going to, you're going to keep a lot more of your income by protecting it from this heavy taxation. So, let's hear what David has to say about preserving your income while keeping the tax man away.
So, David Mandell welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Thank you, Catherine. And it's a pleasure to be here. And a couple of comments for, I get into three ideas that listeners can use to save taxes in 22. Yes, I am an attorney and still practicing, not recovering like some folks who start as a lawyer and do something else.
But I do spend most of my time as a wealth manager these days. So, I still have my law practice, but the reason why that's important. His lawyers play a very important role and tax planning. And yet very few lawyers prepare tax returns. So, I asked physicians all the time when I'm in a conference, you know, and trying to be interactive, you know, how many folks have somebody that prepares their taxes and almost everybody does.
There are some docs who still will do it themselves. Most have a CPA. And you know, right now, as we record this in February, a lot of The listeners here are working with their CPA to give them the information of what happened in 2021. And they're preparing those tax returns for our March 15th deadline or an April 15th deadline.
And even if they're getting extended, they have to file some well, that's not really taxing. That's tax preparation, right? That's looking backwards to say what happened last year and preparing to return. And I say, you know, that's great and it's important to have a good tax repairer, but there's a difference between tax planning and tax preparation.
And I say, you know, what do you think about tax attorneys? Almost none of them prepare taxes, but they're doing. And they're billing 5, 6, 700 bucks an hour. So, it must be something that they're doing that is valuable. Now, a subset of those do counter Versie work, meaning representing someone when they're fighting with the IRS or the state.
But a lot of them don't do that at all. Either they're doing tax planning and we've built our wealth management firm around the concept of exactly kind of parallel to the rich dad, poor dad, which is the net is what's key. Right? We can't, you help these surgeons. Increase their gross, right? Better practice methods, better marketing methods, better ways to deal with patients.
So, they get more referrals and more business. That's all line. And it's crucial. We help clients with is the bottom line. And that's what we're talking about today, which is net of tax. Battle mind. I also, maybe I'll come back and talk about protecting assets from lawsuits and other things they can do that are important.
Okay. So, let's focus today. You asked me, he said, Hey, let's give our listeners a couple of ideas for 2022. So, I'm going to talk about three things they can do this year to save taxes. Are you ready? Okay. So, the first one, and I'm going to relate it because I like to listen and integrate to those quadrants you were talking about.
So, this first one is going to be about the small business quandary. Okay. Which is taking a fresh look at your qualified retirement. That's tactic or that's strategy. Number one, meaning most of those listening here in their practice will have a 401k or a profit-sharing plan maybe. And then they do a SEP IRA.
That's not technically a qualified plan, but sort of substitutes for one, or maybe they even have a debt defined benefit. But what I want folks to do or listening to this is if they have an appetite for lower taxes, that's an F now most, every surgeon will raise their hand and say, I want to save taxes.
Then they should relook at their qualified plan and do a couple of things there. One look at what type of plan they have. They might do better with a different type of. Meaning, if they have a 401k, their maximum, they can put away, which is a deduction is 20,000, 20,500. A profit-sharing plan is around 60,000.
A defined benefit plan is around a hundred thousand in a particular type of defined benefit plan. And there, yes, there are chapters in our book in there, and hopefully it's not too much legally shouldn't be really any. So, people can get through it, but a typical one type of defined benefit plan, a cash balance plan.
We have clients putting away 200,000 a year into that, and that's a deduction. So that's going to write off for a lot of these that that's going to save folks a hundred grand a year or in that neighborhood every year that they have the planet. So, they went up first, look at what other types of plans are out there and run numbers.
The nice thing about this area is they can do with a good firm like ours or another. They can actually take the census, which means all their employees and how much they make and what their age are and run numbers before you make a decision. Okay. There shouldn't be any risk involved. It's just about figuring out what's the right plan.
Okay. Number two is even if you're in a plan or type of is look at the formula. Because in with a 401k with a D profit sharing plan with the five-benefit plan, they all are based on different formulas that play different roles. And people think, well, you know, this is just how much I have to put in for my employees.
And that's not necessarily, so okay. That the formulas change over time and there's expertise, especially on the higher end plans, like the cash balance and defined benefit plan. If you're working with a good actuary, they may be able to work with the numbers so that you think it was going to be too expensive.
Meaning your plastic surgeon, you have 10 employees. I can't do that plan. I'd love to put away a hundred, but it's going to cost me 30 for the employees. Well, maybe with the right actuary, that 30 could go down to 20 or 50. Okay. Now you're still doing something nice for your employees that you weren't doing before, but you've probably had other docs here.
Talk about turnover and how important it is to keep good employees. Well, here's something you're doing well for the employees, but now you're also putting away an extra 50, 60,000 that you get to deduct right as the doc. So, it's a win-win key is formulas. So, plan type, and then formulas. The third thing is on the piece of looking at your qualified plan is don't pay too much.
And I mean, don't pay too much in fees. And I lecture on this. A lot of times people will have a bundled service with the record keeper and the third-party administrator, the person who kind of does those formulas and the investment advisors that plant. So, apply a surgeon might say, you know what? This guy comes.
He has all the things together and I pay one fee and it's very well coordinated. And I like that. That's what they call it. The problem with that is you actually dive into it. A lot of times the fees are too high. There are actually kickbacks going back and forth between the investment advisor and that third party administrator.
So, it's great for them, but we had a plastic surgeon specific client. Himself. His spouse was the key office manager, three employees. We looked at the plan. Okay. We said, listen, it's got two problems, one it's too expensive. Two. It is geared for you too, but not for the rank and file. And guess what? If they get ahold of a lawyer, you don't perform well.
You have liability. You're a fiduciary for your employee, your rank and file. Okay. So, it could be a good plan for you as an older surgeon with more risky investments and you know, things and things that you want to take advantage of, but there's not a good option for them younger. Let's say you can have my ability that or that.
So, we looked at that, we took, we did our evaluation and it turns out we said, listen, we can give you a plan. We're a co-fiduciary on, which means we're on the hook. If there's ever liability, he didn't have that before, too. It's got a better menu of, of options for the couple of sort of rank and file, you know, the, the receptionist and all that.
And then three, it's going to cost you about half in terms of the fees that you're getting more and you're paying less. Okay. And the only reason he knew that is because he reviewed it. He had somebody outside, take a look at it and have a, whatever you want to call a second opinion, a workup, whatever analogy you want to call.
So, first idea is take a fresh look at your qualified plan. That means understand what other types of plans are there. Make sure your formulas make sense and have a review in terms of fees.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Me, was that a caveat to the profit-sharing plan? I, when I'm in practices and we're looking at the benefits and the bonuses and the commissions and all of that I have net, every single surgeon has said the staff has no idea what profit sharing is.
They don't care. They don't, they just don't care. And especially with the turnover going on in today's world just the reality. Is it for the rank and file or is it for the surgeon? And if, if there's a distinction there what's a better plan for the surgeon. Who's trying to save on taxes versus benefit.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Well, they're going to try, you know, the formula is going to be then. Two answers to that. One is you've got to want a formula that obviously maximize the amount the owner can put away. And if they have the cashflow to do it, they should actually look at the, the, the, a defined benefit plan and the cash balance plan, which I mentioned, which again, there's chapters in the book because that, again, we have clients in the aesthetic world who are putting a hundred thousand away for themselves, and it's, they're getting 95% of the.
So, yeah, 5,000 is going to the rank and file, but they got to do something. I mean, you can't get a deduction without doing that. Otherwise, you're going to get in trouble, but if you could do something that's 95 5, then you know, even if it doesn't really act as a motivator for the employees, it's still a huge home run for you because now you're running off $95,000.
Absolutely. Go ahead. So, number two, this is the big business. Okay, so that quadrant, I think it was B. So. The talk that I did when I, when you and I are together. And almost every talk that I do at medical conferences, I'll ask a raise of hand, how many people have a qualified plan, 401k profit sharing plan.
And most of the docs will raise their hand. I'll say, how many people having non-qualified. And most of the docs will have a blank look on their face. So, kind of look around and maybe one or two out of, you know, 50 or a hundred in the room will raise their hand and the concept here. And again, usually I have slides that I do.
I do not want to get technical here, but when I, what I'll say to the surgeons, listening, you have some friends that you went to college with, that you grew up with were really smart, but they didn't go into medicine. They went into big business. And the way they're making their wealth is in the non-qualified plan, because they could be part of Amazon.
They could be part of, you know, gee any company you want to think of. But if it's a 401k, they have the same limitation of 20,000 as you and I have in our 401k, what they have. A lot of physicians don't have it. I'm going to say we don't have, because I have it. And I've been putting a lot more money in it than my qualified plan over the last eight years is a non-qualified plan.
Well, because it's, non-qualified you give up. So, unlike what we just talked about, where you're going to reduce your taxes in 22, the non-qualified plan works like a Roth IRA where you pay money, goes in after tax, but it grows tax-free and if managed properly, it comes out tax free. So, I would ask, you know, the surgeon listening, if you could, because you have an income limitation, but if you don't, if you could put as much into a Roth IRA, as you wanted to, how much would you.
And that's where a non-qualified plan can come in. And this is what the big businesses do. This is what they do for their executives. They're putting in hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars into their non-qualified plans for their top 5,000, 200 executives, because it's, non-qualified, they don't have to offer to any employees.
So, this is something that surgeon will do just for themselves, just for them in
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you can be in practice and be a non-qualified plan. You can be a...
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Yes, absolutely. And by the way, it doesn't conflict with your qualified plans. So, at OJM group, our wealth management firm, we have a 401k. And it's fine. My employees like it, I put a couple of bucks in it, but I'm putting a lot more in my non-qualified plan.
Now I got to pay tax on when it goes in. Okay. That's the pain, but the, the David from retirement 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now is so happy that I'm doing that now, because once it goes in, it's going to grow tax free in order to be able to pull it out. Tax-free okay. And. What I've found is fewer than 5% seem and fewer than 2% of medical practices have that.
But when I asked surgeons two things, one. How much would you put it in a Roth IRA if you could. And they're always like, well, I put a lot more than, you know, what I'm doing. And two, I asked, do you think tax rates are going up in the future or down in the future? And almost they always say up, I say, well, let's just think about that.
If you think tax rates are going up in the future, you would really value something that locks in today's rate and you don't pay tax on it again. Which is the non-qualified plan. And I'm not saying anything wrong with qualified plans, but the opposite is what we just talked about. Your 401k, you get a deduction today.
There's tax-free growth, which is super valuable, but you're going to pay tax on whatever the rates are in the future. Right? So, what I tell people, if you're doing qualified plans, which most of the docs listening, this will be, you have to think about a non-qualified plan to hedge against that because for myself, Right.
Retirement could be 10, 20, 30 years. I want to have flexibility. I want to have the power to pull something up. If taxes happened to be low, I could pull it out of my qualified plan. My 401k, if taxes are high, I pull it out of my non-qualified plan wherein there's no tax, right. I want to have.
Diversification and most physicians don't have that. So, if number one is maximized and perfect, your qualified plan for deductions today, number two is look at non-qualified plans. Okay. As a terrific hedge against future income tax increases a terrific hedge against. Your qualified retirement plan and a way to basically get an unlimited Roth.
And finally, it's a way to do what the big boys and girls do at big business, because this is what they do. Hmm.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And the non-qualified are you saying you can pull that money out whenever you want in increments of whenever you want.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Yeah, because it's a non-qualified plan, the rules that apply to qualified plans because you're giving up that deduction.
You're also getting free of the rules of offering to any employees you're getting free of the 59 and a half penalty before that rule, which a qualified plan like a 401k has or minimum required distributions. Like my father is a radiologist is forced to take minimum quarters. Distributions pay tax on that, out of his IRA that came from his, you know, radiology practices qual profit-sharing plan.
So, all of those rules that we're accustomed to thinking about with the qualified don't apply period. So that's part of the power of it. Plus, the tax-free growth and the tax rate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's very interesting. I'll bet it's not as popular because of that sting at the beginning.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: That's easy. You got it. You know, that's why most docs will come to me and say, I haven't heard of this before.
And it's like, well, your, your CPA probably never suggested it because it's not going to help you save taxes today. Right. So, what I tell clients is, listen, if you said you had a hundred thousand of cash, That you don't need. Right. And it's in addition to whatever savings you're doing after tax, you know, with firms like us, that manage money, but you don't a hundred thousand.
You want to put into something. I I'd say really look at the non-qualified plan. And then let's look at your qualified plan. Maybe you want to do 50 in the profit-sharing plan and 50 in the non-qualified plan versus a hundred in the defined benefit plan. Yeah. You'll get a better deduction. But long-term, you'll be happier that you diversify, but every client's different and that's, you know, that's the beauty of what we do and working with clients.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. That's a good one. I didn't know about that.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Yup. Okay. Number three. And this relates to another quadrant you were talking about, which is the investment quality. So, this is basically; just make sure that your investments are managed in a tax savvy manner. Okay. And that's an easy sentence. Phrase, make sure your investments are tech savvy, but you know, there's a number of success factors in there.
And one, I am going to get into the details a little bit because it's hard to sort of conceptualize without it, but again, I want everybody to get our books for free with the code we're talking about at the end. And there's great examples of this, but the first one, which is an easy concept to understand is asset location.
Let's just say a surgeon has a million-dollar report for. And, and they're working with a firm like us, we manage $600 million for fiduciary, all that. And we say, listen, your ideal portfolio is going to have, you know, 40% us large cap. This is not what I do is what other experts do. And within that we want, and the client wants, you know, certain percentage of dividend pink.
So, let's just say at the end of their portfolio, there's a hundred thousand dollars in some major stocks that paid dividends. Okay. We want to make sure that that is in their qualified plan or IRA. We want that location to be right, because there's no reason for them to be paying tax on those dividends.
Right? This is, they're not in retirement. They're just, they like the dividends because it's a steady rate of return 6%, but they want to reinvest. Okay. So, there's no reason to be being taxes on it. So, you know, that's a simple concept. Your growth stocks might want, you don't mind having in your name. So, if you've got a couple of buckets, right, we want to think, okay, what is your portfolio?
What it should look like, and then what bucket should it be in, right. To minimize the tax-drag on it. That makes sense. Right? Okay. So, another concept that's key to tax planning is what's called game and lost harvesting. Okay. And what this basically means is have your eye on your portfolio and its elements at all times.
And be very proactive to think about in the same asset class, what other funds or ETFs or other investments you could use as a backup. So you might be in fun day, but you know, and your firm is doing the research that if we needed, we could go to fund B, which we have a lot of. Confidence in and the reason you have you want to do that at all times.
People think gain and loss. Harvesting is always in the fourth quarter. You take a look at, Hey, how much did they pay in tax this year? What assets do I have that maybe I could sell for a loss? Because I had a windfall, maybe I sold a building, or I had a really good year at the practice. And that's. But I want to give you a real example.
Why Justin shouldn't wait to the fourth quarter. Okay. So, I want people to listen to this. Let's go back to March, 2020 when the market was tanking. Right. When the COVID was still, was it was coming on the scene. Well, we had a particular. Who, you know, had we had done this research in advance of COVID even showing up?
We said, we always have an idea. Okay. In particular parts of a client's portfolio, what would we go into if we wanted to exit out of this asset? So, in a part of his portfolio, in the international, they had a fund. It was this artist strategic fund, which was valued at about $540,000. Now. It had underperformed portfolio had been doing well, but this was one piece of the portfolio was really unperformed.
There was a loss there and that we hadn't, we thought it would come back. So, we hadn't done anything was unrealized, but we saw the market tanking and we said, this might be the time to just. Sort of bite the bullet cell bat and go into the other fund that we were looking at and harvest that loss. So that's what we did.
Okay. This was March 18th, 2020. We sold that and realized the loss of a hundred, 9,000 for the client. Okay. Well, we, the next trading day, we invested that in another fund. It was a fidelity overseas fund that we'd done the research on. Right? So same part of the mix. If we said, okay, we want 5% in this particular.
Part of your portfolio in this kind of, you know, international exposure, we just traded one for the other harvest, the loss put in the other one. Well, obviously from March on up the rest of that year was kind of a straight line up. So, at the end of that year, that fund was up 63% from that.
In 20 up to 800,000. Now the previous fund would have done well, too. But the difference is because we shifted at that time that in addition to this huge increase up to 800 something thousand from five 40, they had on their tax return, a loss of a hundred, $9,000. So they were in the ideal position, right?
They had growth on their, on their position, their portfolio, their wealthier, but from a tax point of view, they had $110,000. If we had never done that, we just left it in the fund and just say, let's just wait it out. They still would've come up and don't have the numbers in front of me. But I think they probably would've performed not that dissimilarly to the fidelity fund.
Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but in that ballpark it's the same, but they wouldn't have had that loss right now. They had about 109 hundred, $9,000 loss that they can apply to other games that year or carry it through. So that's the kind of opportunity that your investment advisor, if you're doing yourself that you need to be doing, and this is one of the things that it's very hard for a surgeon, if they're doing it themselves, they may be able to pick assets, but to be able to be on top of them, do the research and, and have the competence to execute a trade.
And I saw your face when I said, oh, they lost 109,000. There was not a good face you gave. So, we had to, as an investment manager say, you know what? We're going to do it, even though we're losing 109,000 on this trade over seven, whatever, it was five, six years because we believe in what's going to happen in our strategy.
And it worked right. The client had the upside, they gained in that part of their portfolio, but they also had a loss and I could give a bunch of other examples, but I don't want to get into the details. The point of it, the lesson is. That gain and loss harvesting. There's a year-round thing. It takes research and it takes the confidence to be able to make those moves.
When you think that you'll benefit.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That feels tricky to me because it's not day trading, but it's definitely a part-time job. Like watching all that. I was always taught, just buy good stock and leave it alone. And I'll drive myself nuts if I watch that. So, I don't, I just, I'm not big on stock market. I just have like, you know, just little things that I like, and I look at them periodically and otherwise I'll, I'll never sleep, you know?
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Well, I'm very much like you, I mean, I'm a founder of a wealth management firm. OJM group, I'm the app. So, we, I founded this firm 14 years ago, you know, after practicing law for about 12 years, but I don't really check my balances that often I have my, the portfolio managers I'll do the quarterly call and, you know, I have some ideas and this and that, but I'm not someone who checks it every day.
Unlike my brother, who is a cardiologist who does check things quite often. So, it really has nothing to do with what your chosen field is. So, you might, you're going to have surgeons who do that. And are very active and surgeons who are more passive. And you'll just say, listen, I want to find a good firm, trust them, buy into their business model.
You know, their fiduciary is et cetera. And that's what we do. You know, we help clients in that, in that way.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know so many surgeons because I've asked them like, where are you? Where do you put your money? Like, what were you investing in nine out of 10 times they say stocks. I don't think they're doing this harvesting though, are, or maybe they are doing this harvesting or are they, that just seems like ah, questionable to me.
I personally really like real estate. I like it a lot. I like real estate and investing in cash-flowing properties, you know, so I like syndications and I love the depreciation on, on that, the appreciation that depreciation that I'm much more comfortable with this stock. Not as much though, but what, what do you suggest that these doctors do when they're investing?
And I assume you have a different answer for somebody who's just started out versus 15 years in versus ready to exit.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Sure. So, listen, I mean, we've, we have 1500 physicians we've worked with over the years. So, we have docs who are really into real estate, you know, who are kind of the, the, it becomes their hobby or sort of second business.
I mean, as you know, real estate takes research, you have to know what you're getting into. I, you know, as a lawyer, the few clients, I've had physicians who filed for bankruptcy over the years. It's all been. You know, it's been them buying like right now when things are just exploding, signing a lot of personal guarantees.
And then the market turns and, you know, they have a $5 million property in a $4 million note in the property is now worth two and a half million in the bank. And the bank is not walking away from their $4 million note with a surgeon. So -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Why in the world would they put their name on that.
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Well, a lot of times they have to, to get the, the good loan.
So, the point of all of that is that my advice to a client would be figure out if you're going to try to do this yourself, and you really have the abdomen and the discipline and the time. Okay. Those are three different things as human discipline and time. Because if you don't have all three of those, you'd be much better to outsource it to a.
Right. And I do that myself to my firm. It happens to be my firm, but I don't really have an interest in it, whether I was a corporate lawyer or entertainment, or like it wasn't the beginning of my career or for wealth manager. That's I want someone else watching it and doing it all day. It doesn't mean that the firm like a firm like ours or others don't have real estate as part of it.
There are private reads. There are public reads is private debt. There are syndications, you know, which are all basically described all of those things. But and there's alternatives, et cetera. So, it doesn't just mean stocks, right? There's lots of different kinds of, of assets from private equity to hedge funds and all that kind of stuff that make up a portfolio.
But I think the key question is, are you going to do it yourself? Are you going to find, try to find it advisor that you trust? To help you with that. And then we could do a whole norther podcast on how do you find it advisors or you trust, what are the questions to ask? And I'm happy to come back and talk about that,
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right?
Because that's a big deal. Like, I mean, we all know the strategy, but it's how do you execute this strategy and who do you execute? Those are the questions that get us tripped up
David Mandell, JD, MBA: Happy to come back on another time and talk to that. I talk about that. But hopefully today, at least the people I've gotten some good ideas on taxes.
Again, just to summarize qualified retirement plan. That's your business, that's your business quadrant. Okay. You can have significant deductions there. You can have a good percentage and maybe a lot higher than you think of the deductions versus vis-a-vis employees. But. Get caught and paying too high of fees or having a plan have liability a potential in there.
Two non-qualified plans. You seem to really like that idea. That's the big business idea that I've been doing myself, putting a lot more in than my non-qualified then might qualify for. Yes, the pain is now a deduction upfront, but there's a lot of joy in the future for you. If you do it. And then three investments, make sure their tax manage their, their managing a tax savvy manner.
And that may mean use of a professional for some part of your portfolio, because as you said, it's kind of hard to do it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, this is really good information. I learned a lot on this one. I liked that. So where can they learn more about you and your strategies?
David Mandell, JD, MBA: So, a couple of things, we've got a lot of free content.
Okay. So www.OJMGroup.com. Our website is a good place to see our bios, et cetera. Learn all about us. http://OJMBookstore.com. K http://OJMBookstore.com. If you go there, you'll see our books and we've got three we've written 15 over the years. We've got three that are out there now once a CME piece. So, if you need CME, get that Risk management for the practicing physician.
It doesn't talk about anything we discussed today. Our flagship book is Wealth planning for the modern physician. Okay. That was the one you mentioned in the bio. That's got sections on taxes on asset protection, on investing, et cetera. So that's a good overview, great material there. It's got sections on my defined benefit plan, things I talked about today, and then the other book, wealth management made simple.
That is really all about investing. So, it gets into the questions you should ask and business models that are out there in the financial. What does it mean to be a financial advisor? It means nothing. If I know what a board-certified plastic surgeon is, I know what it means. You know, I know what they have to do to do that.
I know what a dermatologist has to train to do that. I don't know what a financial advisor means and that's on purpose. So, we kind of peel back the curtain and say, these are the different business models there. Right. We talk about tax savvy investing. So those are the two books. And normally you'll see all the pricing on that, but as a listener to the podcast, Write this down, and I know there'll be in the show notes, et cetera, but BEAUTY22 BEAUTY22, like the year if you put that code in at checkout, you will get the books for free, whether it's a hard copy.
If you're old school, Kindle, iPad PDF, whatever works best for you. So http://ojmbookstore.com BEAUTY22.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That is fantastic. Thank you so much, David. I really appreciate your time. This was really insightful and I hope. Yeah, I appreciated that. Please check out his website. I think he's got some really good stuff.
And I love that it's for physicians, you know, they understand that apparently you came from a big family of physicians, but now -
David Mandell, JD, MBA: I'm a black sheep. I'm the only one I got a science was not my thing. So -
Catherine Maley, MBA: Somebody had to be the lawyer. So, I guess. Thank you so much, everybody. If you appreciated this, please give me a review over at Beauty and the Biz at Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/3tsQuta).
I would certainly appreciate that. And then if you've got any questions for me or for David, you can certainly leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com. I'd appreciate you sharing this out with, to your staff, with your colleagues. And then if you want to catch me on Instagram, you can always DM me @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons #davidmandell #ojmgroup #wealthplanningforsurgeons
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Easier Way To Scale Practice Revenues (Ep.142)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Beauty and the Biz where we discuss how to get surgeons more patients and more profits through an easier way to scale practice revenues.
This episode is entitled Easier Way To Scale Practice Revenues
And itβs especially for you if youβre struggling to grow your practice without dramatically increasing your overhead.
So, Iβll talk about:
- What is takes to scale your practice
- The challenges coming at you and how to pivot
- How to thrive and survive no matter what is going on in the world.
Because the objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so itβs more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time, so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with.
Because the ultimate goal to scale their practice includes a system that attracts a steady stream of cash-paying patients WITHOUT spending a fortune on advertising, chasing down leads, hiring more staff, discounting services or performing on social media.
To achieve scalable impact, hereβs what you need:
Leverage β use your assets you already have to generate more revenues with less effort and overhead
Bankable Profits β not just revenues, but profits you actually take out of the practice and
Transferrable Value β means you have separated you from the practice so you have the freedom to sell to someone else when itβs time to exit
But there are challenges aheadβ¦.
Privacy issues are killing your plans for attracting new patients to your practice.
Somuch is happening behind the scenes with apple, google and FB trying to dominate consumer data capture, so they are no longer sharing data with advertisers like before.
This makes it very difficult for you to attract new PREFERRED patients when you can no longer target specifically to certain audiences. And that means Ad results will become incomplete and inaccurate because you now have only 10% of the data that used to be 100% available and will face more difficulties finding an easier way to scale practice revenues.
So that forces you to increase your advertising budget substantially, as in 30-80% and HOPE the broader, less targeted audience is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
Itβs very similar to old-school mass advertising like TV. You spend a fortune to talk to everyone, rather than a targeted audience most likely to want your services.
So not only do your ad costs increase dramatically, so do poor quality leads. Since your ads are not as targeted to your preferred patients, you get a mixed bag of the public contacting you.
Now your staff wastes a lot of time triaging these leads to determine who is really serious and who is flaky.
So, you need well-trained staff and processes to qualify leads.
BTW, if you arenβt already, I recommend you charge a consult fee so at least, your time is better protected from wasted consults who have no intention of moving forward.
Regardless of their motives, these few Internet companies affect you big time if you are using paid advertising to attract new cosmetic patients.
And there is cause and effect to everything.
This major increase in advertising costs has now made SEO popular again; however, the supply is much greater than the demand so itβs getting near impossible to rank on the 1st page.
On top of that, Google is turning into an answer engine in which they are answering consumerΒ questions without them having to go to a website.
So, you need really good fresh content that entices consumers to click and stay on your website. This is not an easier way to scale practice revenues since it takes time, money and energy to create that incredible content.
Another huge challenge you want to plan for is your social media strategy.
You most likely are paying someone to do this for you OR youβre spending a lot of your own time posting to add more followers.
But please keep in mind, you are only renting those followers.
IG and FB own them so they are your landlord.
They can raise the rent and/or kick you out at any time, so you lose your data youβve spent years collecting.
Iβm sure youβre aware that social media and plastic surgery donβt get along.
You are showing graphic material that can be offensive or hurt the self-esteem of the public so these platforms can close down your account without notice.
They also decide who sees your organic content. FB & IG continually strangle your list to force you to βpay to playβ by buying advertising. The latest stats show only 5.2% of your followers actually see your organic content so you have this false sense of security thinking youβre marketing your practice when, in fact, itβs drying up right before your eyes.
To counter this dilemma, I recommend you own the data!
You can no longer trust that audiences you have built on social media platforms will be available to you.
The 1st party data is the future and the money is in your patient list data.
Your followers become your best targeted list because they already raised their hand indicating they are interested in cosmetic rejuvenation.
Use landing pages to capture your followersβ name, email and cell so you can stay in touch no matter what happens.
Iβm imploring you to use the data and resources you already have built up over the years being in practice since itβs no longer easy to come by.
Another big challenge is Technical Advancements are coming at patients fast and furiously.
Just google non-surgical and look what pops up
what that means to you is plenty of patients still need your surgical expertise; however, way more will opt for non-surgical procedures first to delay surgery.
So, meet them where they are now so you donβt lose them to non-surgeons and med-spas.
The point is to develop that relationship early so they come for non-surgical AND stay for surgical procedures, thus, an easier way to scale practice revenues.
So, Give these challenges, how CAN you scale your practice?
- Attract more patients from proven sources
- Return more often & spend more
- Encourage referrals, reviews and sharing on social so you DONβT spend on advertising for new patients.
This will take a mindset shiftβ¦.
The short-term, one-and-done mentality no longer works. Instead, look at each patient as an unpaid practice revenue-generator who brings you new patients for free.
Once you embrace this βpatients for lifeβ mindset, you will treat your patients differently and they will react in kind by building your practice for you organically.
So, hereβs what Iβm proposingβ¦
Enjoy the surgical side of your practice while also building up your non-surgical as a healthy stand-alone profit center and hereβs whyβ¦.
Patients enter different doors to cosmetic rejuvenation, so you want to meet them where they are. Some will go straight to surgical and then stay for more, while others dabble in non-surgical, some for years, before they are ready for your surgical option and give you a path to an easier way to scale practice revenues.
And the beauty of our industry is that Cosmetic Consumers Have ENDLESS NEEDS
The non-surgical industry has grown to over $3BB dollars and continues to grow thanks to social trends, social media and advanced technologies that continue to fuel the demand.
And letβs face it, we females are hard on ourselves. We stare in the mirror and critique ourselves and then we finally have enough and do something about it and then what do we do?
We find the next thing that bothers us about us and focus on that.
It never ends and thatβs what keeps all of us in business!
I also looked up the most recent Aesthetic society stats and non-surgical is now 1/3 of all aesthetic procedures performed and growing.
And, hereβs another interesting statβ¦ Loyal non-surgical patients spend 67% more than new patients and that makes sense because If they know, like and trust you, they are open to your recommendations and will gladly buy your packages when offered.
Hereβs the best partβ¦.
a 5% increase in non-surgical patient retention increases your profits by 25% β 95%.
Because recurrent non-surgical patients tend to buy more, return more often and refer their friends, which is an easier way to scale practice revenues.
This increases their lifetime value and decreases your advertising budget and that makes for a great P&L statement.
So, itβs the Retention of your patients that scales your practice using resources you already have and paid dearly for.
You likely have a database of hundreds or thousands of patients.
Can you imagine what would happen to your bottom line if a majority of them returned for more and referred their friends?
I know for a fact many of them would gladly return and refer if given the opportunity.
Heck, even Google agrees:
One day, I was so frustrated with all the changes going on in digital advertising and tripling your costs to get mediocre results,
I "Googled" how can I get more cosmetic patients and Google said:
- Get more reviews
- Enhance your online presence
- Use social media
- Respond to reviews
- Train your staff
- Build strong relations with existing patients and referrals will follow
BTW, hereβs the greatest missed opportunity:
Word-of-mouth referrals. Also, an easier way to scale practice revenues.
Duct Tape Marketing says 83% of business owners claim their main source of new business is referrals.
But hereβs the crazy part...
93% of consumers say they would refer their friends to you
BUT only 29% actually do.
So, the smart thing to do is to work on that difference of 64% β thatβs where the money is (not your TikTok videos)
Word of mouth referrals are not a happy accident
You need to champion patients by asking them β making it easy and reminding them
To pull this altogether, here is the structure to follow for an easier way to scale practice revenues in this order.
- Increase referrals and reviews
- Retain more patients
- Add more value to differentiate you from your competitors
- Ongoing staff training
- Increase your conversion rate
- Increase your patientsβ transaction value
- Increase frequency of patient visits
- THEN Increase leads and more web traffic
But most practices have this backwards.
They focus only on the bottom rung to increase leads, skip the leverage parts so they and their staff work a lot harder than necessary for less results.
The goal is to create a system to scale your practice by 10Xβing the value of your non-surgical patients so if they are typically worth $1K to you, they are soon worth $10K to you because you have a proven system to compel them to return more often, refer more of their friends, give you reviews, and share you on social media with their followers.
So, now you have peace of mind knowing you have a steady stream of patients coming in month after month to give you predictable revenues. You'll agree that this is an easier way to scale practice revenues.
This scalable system needs to be a creative solution that eliminates discounting and decreases advertising.
This will ensure you operate more profitably so you keep more of the revenues you bring in.
And this system needs to be on autopilot so you and your staff can focus on the patient experience.
It also needs to be unique to anything else out there by changing the conversation.
Hereβs what I meanβ¦
Most practices donβt realize how insanely difficult it is to get a complete stranger to buy something from them, so they fall back on price, as in discounting their services.
That message attracts price-shoppers but then youβre frustrated that youβre being nickel-and-dimed to death.
All of this discounting hurts your profits and your image and itβs a race to the bottom because you canβt compete if youβre barely covering your overhead.
Itβs also not a fun way to run your practice.
So, the solution is to change the conversation from discounting to rewarding your patients with free cosmetic services since the most effective word in advertising has been and will always be FREE, so we use it strategically to create an easier way to scale practice revenues.
This makes it more fun for your patients to work towards winning something and you keep way more of your profits and revenues.
Thatβs how you scale a cosmetic practice you enjoy going to and are proud of.
If that sounds interesting to you, please check out www.KISSLoyalty.com for the details.
P.S. Can you please leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts? Just click the link HERE
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
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Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
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Fellowship To New Practice Build-Out - Interview with Lauren Umstattd, MD (Ep.141)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Beauty and the Biz where we discuss how to get surgeons more patients and more profits with special guest, Lauren Umstattd, MD.
Once you finish fellowship β you have a big decision to makeβ¦
- Do you join a hospital?
- Do you join another practice?
- Do you buy someone elseβs practice?
Or, do you just go for it and start your own private practice from scratch?
This weekβs Beauty and the Biz Podcast (link) is an interview with Lauren Umstattd, MD who did just that.
Dr. Umstattd is an up-and-coming facial plastic surgeon. She recently finished her fellowship in TN and has returned to Kansas to start her solo practice literally from scratch.
Listen in as we talk about:
- How she selected the site to build out her 5K+ square foot facility, including an accredited surgical center;
- How she plans to market herself as a new provider in the community; and
- How being a Division 1 gymnast gives her a winning mindset and a whole lot moreβ¦.
Visit Dr. Umstattd's website at https://faceleawood.com/
Enjoy!
P.S. Can you please leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts? Just click the link HERE
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Fellowship To New Practice Build-Out - Interview with Lauren Umstattd, MD (Ep.141)
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to beauty in the biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley author of Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now I'm very excited about today's guest.
Her name is Dr. Lauren Umstattd. And she's a facial plastic surgeon who grew up in Kansas City then completed a majority of her training at the University of Missouri where she graduated with honors and while competing as a division I gymnast, which we'll talk more about. She also did a fellowship with renowned facial plastic surgeon, Dr. Phillip Langsdon in Tennessee. And he's actually the past president of AAFPRS. And then she returned to the Midwest, Kansas, where she's in the process of building out her own new practice from scratch. And of course, we'll talk more about that. And from what I can tell on her Instagram, Dr. Olmsted is also a wife and mother of two.
And we'll talk more about that, dear Lord. So, Dr. Umstattd, it's a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz, and I really appreciate you.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Thank you so much. I'm a huge fan of your podcast and your YouTube channel. And so, I'm so excited to talk to you today.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so much. So, we always start with, how did you become a facial plastic surgeon?
What, where, what was your journey? Did you come from that family? What's that.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: So, I always had an early interest in pursuing medicine. My mom is actually a drug rep or pharmaceutical representative for a drug company and like take your child to work day. I would, you know, go with her and watch the whole process.
And I didn't love like what she did, but I thought. Oh, well, what the doctors do is interesting. So, in middle school, I asked to shadow our family physician for a day on one of the, take your child to work days. And I loved it. I loved like the pace of the day, the challenges that he saw every day, like the.
The wide variety of patients that he would see. And he also is part of a part of a private practice. So, seeing him run a practice was a little bit interesting to me. So, I'd say early on, I decided I wanted to be a physician. Obviously, that was a little bit challenging while being a competitive gymnast, but eventually got into medical school.
And then I really think I heard a mentor once say like picking your specialty is so serendipitous, right? Because you don't get. Really equal exposure or equal mentorship and a lot of the different fields that are opportunities. So, I think it really boils down to in medical school kind of what you were exposed to and who you were exposed to in those fields.
And so, I decided to pursue ENT. I loved head and neck anatomy. Again, the complexity, it was a little bit different every day. My biggest fear when I was younger, it was like to be bored. Like I never wanted to be bored during a day. So, I thought, well, EMT has plenty of complex patients, plenty of complex, different operative techniques.
Whether it's under the microscope with the endoscope open surgery, cancer surgery, pediatric surgery, you know, and then during residency, I really fell in love with the cosmetic procedures that we did and those patients. And so, it just made sense for me to do a fellowship in facial plastics. And here we are.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, this is the, the interesting part that I find after you're done with fellowship. And now you're out, you're supposed to go out into the world and make your impact and, and, and make your, your spot in the industry. How in the world do you do that? So, most of the surgeons go into the hospitals and work there for a long time or a little time.
So, what's your plan because I know you're building. Gorgeous building in Kansas. How you're going straight into private practice or what are you doing?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Yeah, I, and I will say the building construction is a little bit delayed. COVID obviously has posed a lot of challenges worldwide for every industry, particularly construction in terms of.
Acquiring materials and getting labor secured for those materials. So, we thought we were going to be open in December. It's now early February, but we're getting really close. They're actually going to start painting my sheet rock this week, so, and potentially start putting in some flooring. So, we're like, we're like really close.
I think, yeah, a lot of my friends are like, what the heck are you doing? Just going straight into private practice. But I think I've always had a tendency to want to be my own boss. I'm in medical school and residency. I got a really good taste of organized medicine, both through the AMA, like the American medical association and my state organization as well.
And I saw like how many decisions were made about healthcare, not by the folks who actually practice healthcare, whether it's nurses, RTS physicians, you know, a lot of our healthcare. Industry is dictated by politicians and hospitals and executives. That really don't have an intimate understanding of how those decisions kind of play out in real patient care.
And so, I always thought to myself, like, I just want to do my own thing. I want to be my own boss. I want to see patients like my way. I really didn't want anybody telling me what to do. And so, I think fortunately, I fell in love with the field of facial plastics that lends itself to being able to make that happen.
Because if I were reliant on insurance reimbursement, there's no way I could go out solo on my own and, and, you know, make ends meet.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, are you going to be a strictly cosmetic practice?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Yes.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: So, I won't, I won't take any insurance. Again, I think my love for the field, like I, I love the cosmetic stuff and from a monetary and investment standpoint, you know, it's actually cheaper to create a building.
That's not CMS compliant when you don't have to follow Medicare and Medicare, Medicare, and Medicaid guidelines. You know, the EMR I chose. It's not, it's basically what I charge. I don't have to like document level two or level three visits. It simplifies a lot of things, both logistically and investment wise.
When you don't accept insurance off the bat,
Catherine Maley, MBA: will you be doing surgery in your new building?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Yes. So, the building is about 5,000 square...just under 5,000 square feet. And it took quite a while to design it, but it's basically two entities. I have my clinic. With four exam rooms, you know, a lobby photo room, my office coordinator office the staff work areas and lounge.
And then I have a full ambulatory surgery center with a single operating room with a pre-op post-op. You know, a soiled and clean room a med gas room, like the whole kitten caboodle and in the state of Kansas if you have an independent ASC, it has to be licensed by the state. So, it will be licensed by the state.
And then I'll also be accredited by the aquatics.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How big of a deal has this project then, because I get calls quite a bit about surgeons who, especially with COVID and they're, they've gotten kicked out of the hospitals, you know, and they have nowhere to go and everyone wants to control their own life and their own schedule.
So, they're trying, they're going to build theirs out and they don't even know where to start. Like how how's it been,
Lauren Umstattd, MD: you know, fellowship. Like time-wise fellowship was a great opportunity to start this whole thing, because it's more of a country club lifestyle than residency. You know, you work more of like a nine to five.
And then these last few months, you know, I'm not working in the traditional sense, but I'm basically getting everything ready for my office to open. So, opening an ASC on your own. Like, I don't have a consultant, but I basically just read all this stuff myself. I'm in direct contact with the state. If I have any questions about.
You know, they approved all my plans. Like when we started, they have inspected it at 50% completion and they'll expect, inspect it again at a hundred percent completion. So, I've been in direct contact with the bodies that are helping me from a regulatory standpoint. It's I don't think it's innately difficult.
It's time-consuming yes, but. The information is all there. And the governing bodies, whether it's your state or a third party, like they're willing to help you, you just have to ask questions and do your homework.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. What is the ETA? That the real one,
Lauren Umstattd, MD: I don't exactly know. Probably in about two months as what we're thinking and that, you know, I will say I've learned a lot in terms of construction.
Not only is it the actual, like bringing the building up off the ground and putting it all together, but it's also the city, right? They have to come out and inspect almost every week. So. An example of firewall has to be built between my ASC and my clinic. Right. So that God forbid there's ever a fire, then it takes a long to burn through.
Well, that firewall is basically like a sandwich there's sheet rock, and then another layer and another layer, another layer. So, the city has to come out and inspect every layer before the next layer is put on. And so. That's another limiting factor and another time kind of piece of the puzzle. So, we're thinking two months, but it depends on the subcontractors.
It depends on the city, you know?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, how did you choose a location itself? I know you're from Kansas, but how did you choose.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: So, I, so Kansas city lies right on the Missouri Kansas line. And I grew up in Kansas city, Missouri, which makes no difference. But and my husband is from just south of here.
And so, we always knew we wanted to be close to family. Especially once we started having children, there was really no other where like no other place in the United States we wanted to be. And so, I know that some surgeons will like. Do a feasibility study and try to, you know, do their market research.
And for me, like, I, like I wanted to be in Kansas city, like the greater Kansas city area. And then I said, you know, we'll just figure out where I want to be in Kansas study. And then I'm going to be there for 30 plus years. So, we'll make it work, you know, kind of you build it and.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Is it a new development that you're in?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: It is we started looking for land when I was finishing my fourth year of residency and we were pretty close. We were in Columbia, which is only two hours away. We just went out one day with a commercial realtor and we're looking at pieces. We looked at both Build outs that were already existing and then just land.
And we were presented luckily with a good opportunity with a piece of land, right on a main drag. And it was about the right size for the building that I needed. It just all kind of worked out. We, we chose the Southern part of Kansas city just based on medium home value. So, it is a bit more a fluent area compared to some parts of the.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you went with like 5,000 square feet. So, I'm assuming you're planning to scale this thing eventually, but to get started, what's your game plan? Like it's very, you're also very young and, you know, like, and I'm older, let's just be Frank here. It's very difficult to offer a facelift to. 60-year-old talking to somebody like you, who's so young.
Are you, are you hesitant about that or have you like, what's your game plan of your target market? You know, and are you going to go with injectables first and laser are going to buy a bunch of lasers and then move into a blend? Or how do you have a plan for.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: I definitely have a plan. I've been thinking about it for about a year and I've listened to a lot of educational content out there.
Medical and nonmedical. And I think right now in the world, we live in with social media and the ability to put yourself out there and let people get to know you before they come in. My patients will self-select. So, anybody that's nervous about my age, my relative, and experience me being a female.
They're not even going to reach out to me, which is fine because it saves us both the time and money. You know, I think while I am young and relatively inexperienced as compared to some of the folks in my community, I also think there's a big benefit to being fresh right out of training. You know, I've basically spent the last six years reading papers, getting board certified, like.
I'm all there, you know, whereas someone who's in their seventies, you know, might not be as on top of the most recent literature and techniques. And so, I think patients will self-select While I will offer injectables, you know, neurotoxins fillers, and then do some skincare stuff. That's not what I'm going to lead with.
You know, I'm a surgeon, I love operating. I've put in the investment to build out an ASC and that's where I want to spend a lot of my time and energy. So, in terms of marketing, I'm really not going to market a lot of filler and neurotoxin. And that's intentional. I know that those patients There's different age demographics.
Right? So, a lot of my good girlfriends who are in their thirties, they will come in and get all the non-invasive stuff. And I love that, but I think in really an interest. And in terms of covering my cost surgery is where I need to spend my time in terms of mark, for sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you've got, you know, you've got to decide who your support team is going to be.
Is your thought to have kind of like a med spa on the side as our, as a profit center while you're building your surgical practice or no, just for now, it's just you and surgery.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: So, I think right now, Come to the realization that it's difficult to predict the future. I have built my building not for tomorrow, but I built my building for five to 10 years out.
You know, it's bigger than I need at first, but I want to grow into it. And I think the opportunities to grow and expand will come somewhat organically. I'm open to having other physicians operate at my surgery center. I'm open to having mid-level providers help me. Fillers and toxins, I'm opening to ha I'm open to having an aesthetician take one of my exam rooms full times.
I I've told myself that I can't force that it has to be. I think it's going to be the right person the right time, that will just kind of appear. And that might be like a naive utopian view of how things are going to play out. But just like the building and me recognizing that I have no control over when it's going to be done.
I have to recognize that the people that will join me in the future, I have really no control over that. I just have to assess them individually as they come to me. And I've been super lucky so far. I have not put out an ad for employees, but I already have my nurse. I have my patient coordinator and I have an anesthesiologist.
That's going to be a 10 99 with. I was kidding. And those are people that I've known and that are interested in working for me. So, I've been very fortunate and I, I just kind of assume that if I am myself and grow a great practice, that people want to be a part of both from a patient and employee standpoint, then it, it, it will grow organically.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yes. And you're absolutely right. Although in today's world, in the old days, which I have found, I'm saying that more often now it used to take about 10 years to grow a nice practice. And now you've got about 10 months and it's just not normally done like that, but there are shortcuts to scaling. I will just say one thing, if you were to bring on some nonsurgical service providers, such as an injector, I would just make sure.
They don't have the drive you have there. They just want a nice, safe, stable place to hang out and they bring a nice Rolodex with them, you know? And that would help shortcut it. That would be my 2 cents on that. Are you going to be buying the lasers or hopefully you're going to hold off on that or just be very selective with what you choose?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: I am not buying a laser to start. I think that might be a birthday present salt to my practice. You know, maybe it, my two-year birthday or something, I don't know. But again, I can't predict the finances. I have an understanding of what it's going to take to get going, and that it's going to be a little rough for a while.
You know, I'm not going to pay myself for a while. I don't know how long, but I think. Again, you can't, you can't know everything right now. I don't have a crystal ball or a magic eight ball, so I'm just going to invest in a laser when I can. And until then, I'll just refer people down the street because there are lasers everywhere.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? Just give me one big mistake that you've made so far. Let's say in the building of the practice, you know, in the building of the bill of the building, just to help somebody else, like what's one big mistake that you wish you could have skipped.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Well, haven't been. Okay. One big mistake. I ordered. So, for exam chairs and for matching stools from a Chinese website and I.
Got notification. I ordered them last summer. And I knew it was going to take several months with the shipping and freight industry. And so, you know, I was in detailed contact with the rep. I chose my fabric. I was going to save about 10 grand by ordering directly from this Chinese distributor. And I got confirmation that things had been delivered.
And I was like, what? I never received it. Because I have a lot of things stored right now, obviously until my building's ready to accept all the furniture and equipment that I have. And so, I was like, oh my gosh, I have been scammed. They stole my money. I've been scammed. I was so dumb. You know, why did I think that I could just, you know, take a shortcut, save 10 grand.
So, I filed a complaint with the website and said, you know, I'm, I'd like my money back. They keep sending me fake ups, tracking slips and yada, yada, yada. So, then I get in contact with an American company and I say, I need, at least I, cause I have four exam rooms. So, I said, well, at least need two exam chairs and some stools.
So, can I. To exam chairs and tools. And I, I would like it within the next month. Yeah. Yeah. So, then I get those, well, then I'm out at my construction site one day and they have really no materials. They have like a locked, you know, office. And I was wandering around in there trying to find my contractor and I saw this box and I was like; how do I name.
And I was like, eat Ethan's my contractor. I was like, what, what does this box right here? He was like, oh, I don't know. It's some stool or something that it had a bunch of Chinese print on it. And so long story short, I had received the stuff from China. I just didn't realize it. And so, I had spent an extra seven grand, which again, it hurts right now and I'm super early.
If you look at the marathon view, 10 years out, you know, $7,000 is not going to make or break me. It was just probably a good learning opportunity for me. And that
Catherine Maley, MBA: always is there. You know, it just is there will be more for sure. But good attitude. What are these, your husband fit into all of this?
I'm seeing him on Instagram. And is he helping you build this or what's.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: He is my number one cheerleader. So, and not in like, I mean way, cause I feel like cheerleader is synonymous with female, but so him and his family have been a part of the restaurant world for several decades, generation wise. And so, they are very Astute with investments, whether it be business real estate, growing, scaling, taking risks.
And so, I think at an early point, you know, third or fourth year of residency, my husband saw that I had an interest in this. And so, he kind of fed that interest. And so, he's been a really, really positive influence in terms of my decision to do this. He helps me brainstorm about marketing. He obviously is a great, co-parent like, there's no way I could have had two children already without him.
Yeah, he's just the best he helps and way he's not like he's not going to like work for me or anything, but he, we talk a lot about the business at nights and on weekends when he's able to.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, how ho how helpful that his family came from, for sure. Construction and business and marketing and how you do it.
I mean, that's a great shortcut for you. So, congratulations
Lauren Umstattd, MD: and it's interesting, you know, I didn't tell you early on, but I looked at trying to buy a practice here in the Kansas city area before I started building and in their world. Buying a restaurant is very straightforward, right? It's so many times earnings.
And so, it was a little bit difficult for them to wrap their head around this like very arbitrary number that some of these surgeons put on their practices, especially when they don't own the real estate. It's like, what are you actually buying some old equipment and a few, like a handful of patients realistically.
And so, there was one gentleman that I talked to pretty in detail for a few months, years, several years ago now about buying his practice. And it just didn't make sense. And so, we, we passed on that opportunity and that's when we decided to just go off.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've done a lot of work on that. The exit strategy of a plastic surgeon, you know, w when you're done and working your butt off for 30 years how do you walk away profitably?
And frankly that whole world has changed so much. You can't count on Goodwill anymore. You can't count on that patient wanting to come back to another surgeon for surgery after, you know, several years. That's a tough one. So, I'll tell you what the secret is. The secret it's to build a non-surgical side of your practice when the timing is right.
That is a sellable, predictable revenue stream. The surgical side is not. So just throwing that out there.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Yeah. And, and to add to that, you know, like you asked me early on, how are you going to market yourself as like a young, you know, surgeon and realistically, I think a lot of people need to recognize.
Obviously, the patient goes to the surgeon, not to the practice. And so, if an older male is retiring, the chances that their patients are going to want a young female, you know, I don't need the same cookie cutter. So, it just, it just made more sense for me to just start with. I,
Catherine Maley, MBA: I agree. So competitively, what's your scenario like over there in Kansas?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: You know, it's interesting. I do you listen to Gary Vaynerchuk? Yes. The whole world does, don't they? Yes. Okay. So, he's one of my favorite people to listen, to learn from and know inspiration from. And so, I don't really care about the like, The market around town. I I've been fortunate to meet several other surgeons in town.
Like we actually have like a little coupleβs date planned for two weekends from now a facial plastic surgeon and a plastic surgeon. They. Just reached out to me and said, Hey, let's get together. And so, I met them, they showed me their office and they want to kind of have like informal journal clubs in the future.
And so, it's so far, it's been very warm and inviting. I didn't, there's several other people in the area and I might reach out to them just from a friendly standpoint just to say, Hey, but I didn't really want. A lot of thought into like what they're doing. And because I think a lot of a lot of plastic surgeons really aren't good marketers when you compare to other industries.
And so, for me, I'm not competing against them. I'm competing against the companies that are out there that are great at marketing, like Lulu lemon and apple. And like, I try to draw inspiration from things that are non-metal. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The demographics that you're going to go for, is there a plan for that?
Like I would assume rhinoplasty is right up there for you. A lot of the plastic surgeons don't want to do rhino, so, you know, perhaps, I mean, what is your marketing plan? Have you put that together?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Yeah, I think for me, marketing is 99.9% social media. The reason is because I'm able to put myself out there.
People can get a realistic view of who I am, what I am, what my philosophy is, my approach to things. And it's basically free besides your time. You know, I was kind of an earlier creator on Tik TOK and I have grown a large community on there. And I get, even though my office isn't open, I probably. Two to five inquiries on my website a week that come from Tik TOK.
And it's interesting. It's the fastest growing age group on tech talk right now is 35-to-45-year-olds. But I will say the large majority of people that reach out on my website are younger females interested in rhinoplasty or buccal fat removal, chin implant, and X sculpting, you know, not traditionally aging face, but just kind of tweaks here.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Tic-tac I'm a little torn on tech tech. They go after my 16-year-old. No, she's 15, my 15-year-old niece, man, you know, they're showing her breast dogs and BBLs, and I'm not loving that idea. I'm not loving that, that they're even allowed to. You know, market to such a young girl. But that's beside the point rhinoplasty and tic-tac really go hand in hand for sure.
I would really you being a female surgeon, I would, you know, make a big deal out of that. You know, a lot of women like to go to women it's just it's comfortable for them. So, I like that idea. And I would think that would be one of your big differentiators. Are there any other female facial plastic surgeons in your area?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: There is one other I've I recently reached out to her. I haven't heard back, but yeah, there's one other female facial plastic surgeon. I will say though, tick-tock it's interesting, like in the words of Gary V do not be your own judge of your content, right? But everything out there, kind of put a little of this, put a little of that and see what does well, so the things that do well, and of course, I always sprinkle in the educational content.
So, I have little blurbs about what is a brow lift? What are the incision options? What is a lower blast? When would you get filler to the tear trough versus lower bleph surgery? But I also sprinkle in moms. I'm a feminist and I'm very unapologetic about some of my female views and training as a female in the world of surgery.
And so, I would say my spicy videos usually do well. The ones where I kind of come out unapologetically and talk about things in a very real sense. Whereas, so my educational stuff is less interactive. But that's even if a video only gets 200 views, you know, the educational stuff is where my potential patients come from.
So, it doesn't really matter how many people see it or view it or like it it's. How does that translate into getting a potential?
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. And are you collecting, I know you said that they're writing to you on your landing page. I highly urge your website. I highly recommend you or at least getting from them, their name, email, and cell phone.
Just in case, you know, Instagram or Tech-Talk shut you down or you just never know, you know, so
Lauren Umstattd, MD: yeah. And I emailed them right back and I say, Hey, thanks for reaching out. You know, the office isn't quite done yet. I have a waiting list that I put them on. And so, I do get their email and phone number and.
I let them know that we'll reach out once we start accepting appointments.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's all right. That's terrific. I want to talk about mindset with you because you it's very unusual to have the courage to go straight out there into the world. Very unusual. Where is that coming from?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: I don't know how to say this without sounding like not humble and I'm pretty humble, but like I've never really failed at anything before.
Really. I only 33. So, I have, I've got a lot to fail at in the future, but, you know, I was a competitive gymnast. Like it takes a lot of guts to get out there and compete so low. Some of the difficult tricks. Gymnast do you know, I got into medical school, I had a baby during residency. Like I've done a lot of things that are hard.
And so, for me, the hardest things have provided me the most gratitude in my life. And so, this is just an extension of that, you know, like obviously this is going to be a difficult. Next few years or next 20 years next 30 years. Like nobody really knows what it's like to own your own practice until you do.
Maybe I'll hate it. I hope I don't, but yeah, the gods, I don't, I don't know. I just, this is what I want to do, so.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's fantastic. Where, how did you decide to have two kids in the middle of all this as well? And that's a lot, you're doing a lot. Like you left fellowship in Tennessee, you came back to Kansas.
I assume you had to buy a house or live somewhere. Then you have the. Then you have the practice.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: This summer was busy. I had our second child. We bought an older home. It's like the height of the housing market. So, and then we redid our entire home besides the master. So, I oversaw all that. We had general contractor, but I led that.
So even though. I haven't, again, I haven't been working in the traditional sense. Our life has been very busy and I've, I've been so fortunate to spend more time with our second son as an infant. Because I missed a lot of that in residency. Like. This is bad to say, but I don't even remember like the first few months of my first son's life, because I was so busy in residency, it was like survival mode.
And I don't know how my husband did it all. He's such an amazing partner, but to answer your question about having kids, you know, I tell pre-meds and medical students all the time, there is no good time to have a kid. Right. Everybody knows that. And I think students. And residents try to plan like having, oh, I'm going to have it, like my research here, have it this time.
Okay. That's not how it works. You don't like press a button and say, I'm going to get pregnant tonight. So, I think you and your spouse or whoever you're having a kid with you, like have to decide when you're ready to become a parent and then just go because and then just figure everything out.
Essentially after that, I think You know, I have a little bit of regret and residency, not being more intentional with my program director and some of our conversations regarding my maternity leave. But things have since changed I a year before I graduated, I approached him and said the maternity leave policy here is needing some improvement and I provided him some.
Recommendations by the AC GME and what other programs were doing across the country. And so, he let me rewrite the maternity leave policy and then he made some tweaks and adopted it. And I also said, you know, we need a breastfeeding policy because. I was. So, since we didn't even have one, I was so nervous to ask as a fourth- and fifth-year resident to scrub out of cases to go pump.
Like, and I felt like just having a policy on the books would allow future females to be more open to the idea in terms of planning once they come back. And, and so he said, yeah, write the policy and. I'll put it in the handbook. So, I think women just have to be intentional, not only about when they start having kids, but then also how it works into things after you have them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, okay. Regarding the gymnast thing was that that had to have taught you discipline. What was that posing about? Was that had you done that all your life and, and did you get any really good lessons out of that?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Oh, yeah. I think sports or really any organized activity is so important for children beyond just school.
So, I, yeah, I was a gymnast forever since I was like five. I started training 20 hours a week in the gym, starting in sixth grade. It definitely gave me a sense of discipline, but also the sense of delayed gratification working towards a goal. Failure taking risks, you know, it's, it's hard to put into words how gymnastics helped me become a physician and a surgeon, because it's just like innate to who I am.
Yeah, there's just so many things I can't even, it's just, I became who I am because I was a gymnast at a very early age and into college. So, it was basically my identity for a year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: But isn't that interesting. All of those lessons you learned that early on in the gymnast arena completely come over to any other arena you went to gosh, good training, you know, training, body training.
Do you still work out now or are those days are over now?
Lauren Umstattd, MD: I do. I enjoy exercising, obviously, the. Childbearing his you know, your body's just different after you have kids. So, I, I don't do gymnastics anymore. That's a question I get, there's no way it's too dangerous. I don't have those muscle groups or muscle memory anymore, but yeah, I enjoy yoga and walking, jogging that kind of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And what are you doing? I love talking about mindset. Like how you think the way you think. I I'm assuming your parents were very instrumental in that somewhere along the line and the gym, the gymnast thing I'm sure was huge. But is there anything in particular, any one person, any mentor, any books, any conferences, like how are you thinking the way you are?
Because you're definitely thinking differently and you're thinking big.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: I would say one of the best books I've read in the last five years to start with why by Simon Sinek, he has a famous Ted talk and I would encourage everybody to read his book. I think it just makes you look at. How like what your next step is and being very intentional about that?
I would say, so I forget the number, but on the anagram personality type, you know, I'm a perfectionist and I'm a challenger. I think that my involvement with organized medicine early on really taught me how to question the status quo. Constantly be looking for ways to improve not just to follow suit with those that are in front of you or next to you, but really again, back to why, you know, why are we even doing this?
There's got to be a better way to go about it. So, I don't know if there's any one other thing in particular that I would attribute that to. Yeah, my parents are wonderful. I'm very fortunate to have them in mind.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The last be thrilled to have you back in town, huh? With the grandkids.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Oh yeah. Well, you know, it's all about the grandkids now, so, which is great.
It's very fun to see them as grandparents
Catherine Maley, MBA: for sure. Well, thank you so much for being on beauty and the biz. I will be watching your career. I can't wait to see your building and I bet you can't wait till it opens up. But and I'll watch you on Instagram as well, but thank you so much for your time. We really.
Lauren Umstattd, MD: Okay, thanks so much. Have a good one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. And that'll wrap up this episode of beauty in the biz, if you would be so kind as to subscribe and give us a good review at beauty, the visit be super helpful. And then if you've got any feedback for me or questions, just go ahead and leave them on my website www.CatherineMaley.com or you can always DM me on Instagram at Catherine, mainly MBA.
Thanks so much. Talk to you again.
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How to Increase Your Conversions (Ep.140)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Beauty and the Biz where we discuss how to get surgeons more patients and more profits, as well as on how to increase your conversions.
So, does Your Receptionist Need Help Converting More Callers to Appointments? And/or
Does Your Coordinator Need Help Converting More Consultations to Paid Procedures?
Be honest. Itβs better to face it and fix it than it is to ignore it and keep losing.
Times have changed.
Itβs just too competitive to be mediocre.
And itβs too costly to attract new prospective cosmetic patients only to lose them at the converting stage.
That means, you want to be better than your competitors, so they choose YOU, but only if you know how to increase your conversions
Letβs remember, Aesthetic patients donβt NEED aesthetic services β they WANT them. When patients are spending their own money on elective procedures, they expect a certain level of service and that starts with the first telephone call they make to your office, to the staff they meet along the way and, of course, to the coordinator who gets them to a yes.
Converting (or lack of) is a big problem in a majority of practices. As a matter of fact, 8 out of 10 offices have poorly-trained staff that cost them thousands of dollars a year in missed revenues.
The number #1 complaint I get from surgeons is you have great staff but they are not skilled enough in promoting you to your prospective patients who call and visit, which is a direct result of not knowing how to increase conversions.
So, if you donβt address THIS part of your patient lead process, you will continue to put more time, money and effort into advertising for new cosmetic patients and not get enough back in return when they donβt say YES to an appointment and then YES to a procedure.
This puts fickle consumer patients in the driverβs seat and thatβs what is leading to a waste of your valuable time and holes in your schedule.
But hereβs the good newsβ¦. Itβs a problem with an easy solution. Or, at least easier than the alternative which is to throw a ton more money at lead generation and play the numbers game.
But then you risk staff burnout since it takes a lot of time, energy and hassle to go through all these questionable leads to determine which of them are actually serious about moving forward and learning how to increase your conversions.
And the last thing you need right now is staff turnover since itβs become increasingly difficult to find good people.
So letβs talk about your phones first.
Have you ever cringed listening to your receptionist loose callers?
Do you wish she sounded confidant and more professional? How she can learn to increase her conversions?
To put bad phones in perspective in terms of what they are costing you, if you lose just
Injectable Patient per day valued at $500 thatβs = $132,000 per year
Or 1 Surgical Patient per day valued at $5K thatβs = $1,320,000 per year
Yikes!
You probably didnβt realize just how much money is slipping through your fingers because your team isn't prepared to handle patient inquiries effectively.
The fact is, patients aren't ever going to meet you and your coordinator if your phone staff can't successfully convert callers to appointments
Frankly, your staff may be unknowingly sabotaging your best practice promotional efforts because they simply don't know how to convert consistently and don't know how to increase conversions.
Let's talk about your receptionist. Think about how you feel when you call a business and your call is handled poorly.
Perhaps the phone rang a long time before someone picked up but then they put you on hold.
Perhaps you got stuck in the phone tree from hell and got lost in all the choices so you gave up and hung up.
Certainly, that's not the way the business owner would want you to be treated.
Well, it's the same in your practice.
Most surgeons don't believe this happens in their own office - until they hear it for themselves so let me know if you want us to mystery shop your practice.
I assure you, in my consulting work, I have called hundreds of practices and have been amazed at what I've heard on the other end of the phone when it comes to knowing how to increase your conversions.
So hereβs a typical scenario....
You have spent a fortune re-designing your website (again) to ensure Google and their rules donβt ban you from the Internet.
And, you work with a company to get your SEO in shape so prospective patients can find you online.
You are most likely spending advertising dollars on Real Self, Google Adwords, banner ads and directories which isnβt cheap.
Then, you conquered the world of social media. Youβve hired a team to blog for you, write content, and update your FB page regularly.
You even assigned an internal staff person to be your βsocial media directorβ in an attempt to increase your conversions.
This is costing you time and money but youβre sure itβs helping. So, the stage is set and you are ready for new cosmetic patients.
And all your efforts are working!!
Prospective cosmetic patients found you online, they learned enough about you and they are confident you are a great choice to help them with their needs.
They eagerly call your office with anticipation knowing you are a first-class practice ONLY TO HEAR....
βDoctorβs office. Please holdβ.... Click and now on hold?
Or they are greeting by A disinterested receptionist with no enthusiasm Or A friendly receptionist who doesnβt know anything?
This WAS NOT the image or experience your callers expected.
That βincongruenceβ between your image portrayed to the prospective cosmetic patient is lost when that image is not carried through to your receptionist and how they handle callers on the phone, which directly stems from their knowing how to increase your conversions.
What a waste to lose that cash-paying patient before you even got to meet them.
By the way, do you monitor your calls for consistency to be sure what you think is being said is actually being said?
Working with practices and call centers for years, I learned you canβt take anything for granted.
Just when you think you have trained your staff, you find they went right back to their old ways.
So, it takes constant never-ending improvement and accountability to ensure they stay professional and on script.
For example,
If youβre having trouble getting your callers to book an appointment with you because they're price-shopping, try this proven strategy:
When the caller asks your receptionist, "How much is it?" train your receptionist to say,
"Oh sure Sara, I can help you with that. It's one of our most popular procedures and, just so you know, Dr. Smith has been in practice for more than (10) years and has performed over (1,500) of those procedures and he's even trained other physicians."
"Of course, Dr. Smith would need to examine you and meet with you to determine exactly what result youβre looking for, but I can tell you it starts at $3500 and youβll get the exact pricing at your consultation."
"Dr. Smith sees new patients on Tuesday and Thursdays so so you have a preference or should I just tell you our next available date?"
This Exceptional Receptionist response catapults you to expert status, pulls the patient out of commodity-thinking and asks for the appointment without pushing and really helps on how to increase your conversions.
Now letβs talk about Increasing Your Consultation Conversion Rate
Letβs say you have great front desk staff, and they are excellent at booking callers to consultations.
The patient comes in and is greeted by that same friendly front desk person.
The visiting patient now goes through your consultation process of completing paperwork, having photos taken and meeting with you, the surgeon, to discuss your recommendations.
So far, so good.
Now your patient coordinator takes over. Her job is to present the numbers, answer additional questions and book surgery.
But is that what actually happens?
How often do you hear from your coordinator the would-be patients walked out the door without booking, never to be heard from again?
And then when you ask them about it, your coordinator tells you things like:
- They were just price shopping
- They canβt afford it
- They had to talk to their husband
But is that really true?
I guarantee at least 20% of those consults were lost due to your coordinator NOT being skilled and/or experienced enough to convert them.
Your patient coordinator can be a game-changer for your bottom line so please choose carefully who is representing you because she must believe in YOU, your skills as a surgeon and truly believe you are the best choice so she can present you as such to your prospective patients. Only then can she learn how to increase conversions.
BTW, the easiest way for your coordinator to close more consults is to show off her OWN results from your skills and expertise. That turns her into a personal story teller about her own journey, as well as an aesthetic advisor and immediately builds trust and credibility with the prospective patient who can see for themselves, results they, too, can expect.
She also must have powerful rapport-building skills to quickly bond with your prospective patients so they connect.
Consider what a difficult conversation this is to have with a complete stranger. The cosmetic patient is uncomfortable with their appearance, so they are feeling vulnerable and anxious.
The coordinatorβs duty is to put them at ease and reassure them they are in the right place and will be happy with their result when they decide to move forward. This will allow them to easily learn how to increase your conversions.
Your coordinator must have a process set up and powerful questions to ask, to help the patient articulate what they want, why they want it and what it will take for them to say YES.
And, Your Patient Coordinator MUST βComfortably and Confidentlyβ close by asking for a decision.
So many practices have patient coordinators who are nice and look the part but have no idea how to ASK FOR A DECISION, which in-turn, helps them on how to increase your conversions.
This one skill is a practice game changer when you have a skilled professional representing you.
But like anything else in life, itβs a learned skill. It takes proven strategies and practice.
For example, a trained and skilled patient coordinator is never pushy or aggressive.
They have the words and scripts and processes they follow to βleadβ the patient to a decision that is comfortable for the patient.
For example, a simple closing strategy is to use an βassumptiveβ statement to help the patient make a decision.
So, after your coordinator presents the quote, she confidently goes back to the computer and says,
βSara, since Dr. Smith is pretty booked out, so let me give you some dates we still have available to give you an idea of when you can have this done.β
If Sara doesnβt object, she is moving forward and you are that much closer to a yes so keep going.
Here is the secret to your success. A professional gets good at the fundamentals. They learn and practice the key components needed to be successful.
They know it takes repetition and never-ending improvement of the core basics so they become second nature.
Lastly, I want to touch on Staff accountability
Youβll always get better results when you have the end game in mind so you know what you are striving for.
The most effective goals are the ones that are obtainable but a stretch, and, they are also measured regularly so staff is held accountable, which helps to increase your conversions.
For example, your receptionistβs goals can be:
- Answer the phone with a friendly smile within 3 rings
- Convert 60% new callers coming in from the Internet
- Convert 90% of those referred by WOM referrals
- Keep calls under 4 minutes
Your coordinatorβs goals can be:
- Make pre-consult calls
- Convert 60% consults coming from the Internet
- Convert 90% consults from WOM referrals
- Block 1 hour per week to make F/U calls
But the secret is to regularly go over the goals and actions taken to reach those goals to give praise and suggestions for improvement so your staff knows you care.
Executing these goals and the strategies I just went over should give you a nice raise this year so execute, practice and see what happens.
Of course, If your receptionist and/or coordinator could use professional converting training, check out www.ConvertingClub.com for the strategies, scripts and accountability your staff needs to help you grow.
P.S. Can you please leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts? Just click the link HERE
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
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βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
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Manage 75 Staff? No Way! Interview with Edwin Williams, MD (Ep.139)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Beauty and the Biz with Edwin Williams, MD.
Very few surgeons understand the business side of plastic surgery like Dr. Williams, so I had him on Beauty and the Biz to share his pearls.
Heβs a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in upstate New York in a cute town called Latham in Albany which happens to be the capital of NY.
He has grown his multi-specialty practice in a 22K square foot facility with 7 surgeons, 75 staff, a surgical center, hair center and medspa.
Listen in as Dr. Williams shares his business acumen that helped him grow an 8-figure practice with lots of moving parts.
Even if you have no aspirations for such growth, youβll get the fundamentals needed for any size practice.
This is a βmust hearβ if you struggle with inconsistent revenues, staff issues that keep you up at night and youβre bordering on burnout from being the surgeon, manager, marketer and all the other hats you wear. Visit Dr. Williamsβ website
P.S. Can you please leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts? Just click the link HERE
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
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Transcript:
Interview with Edwin Williams, MD
Catherine Maley, MD: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. Iβm your host, Catherine, Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice β What Your Patients Are Saying and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now, todayβs is a very special guest.
Itβs Dr. Ed Williams. Heβs a facial plastic surgeon. And since 1999, heβs been in private practice in upstate New York in a cute town called Latham, which is in Albany and which happens to be the capital of New York. So, he also has locations in Manhattan, Saratoga, and the Virgin islands. So, heβs grown has main practice.
Into 22,000 square foot facility with four surgeons, 75 staff, a surgical center hair center, and med spa. Now Iβve known Dr. Williams for years. He has shared the podium or Iβve shared the podium with him at medical conferences, since heβs well-known for his business acumen in running a successful.
Eight figure practice with lots of moving parts. Now, as a matter of fact, I used to run a course with him called the Masters Academy of Surgeons where Dr. Williams was the professor. And together we taught the business and marketing side of plastic surgery to surgeons who were interested in scaling their practice and setting themselves up for a profitable exit.
So, Dr. Williams have served on many medical society committees. Heβs also past president of the American Academy of Facial, Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons. Heβs also an author of his own consumer book for rhinoplasty, and heβs got another book and heβs got his own podcast and consulting services for surgeons. And itβs called the White Coat Entrepreneur, which I think is a brilliant name. Anyway, welcome to Beauty and the Biz Dr. Williams.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Well, thank you, Catherine. And just a couple of minor corrections. So, I went to practice in 92, but I built, I built facility in 98 around that timeframe. And weβve got actually five core physicians and we have one joining us in July full-time and another one in July 23.
So, weβll have, weβll be up to seven. So. But Iβve made every mistake out there. So, I like to, I like to share, and I love this stuff as you know, because you, and Iβve spent a lot of time teaching together. And mainly because I learned, you know, what every juncture, right?
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, so itβs a long story, but could you just give, like, everyone loves to hear, how do you get from like residency, fellowship, private growing? Like, what was your journey to get where you got to.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Well in the beginning. So, you know, I donβt want to bore you with residency stories and, and you know, and fellowship, but I, I wanted to do a fellowship. I was interested in rhinoplasty and so I did a facial plastic fellowship in Chicago. I wanted to come back east because my family was on the east coast and I was just scared.
And obviously Iβd, you know, be out in the Midwest or out in the west, somewhere skiing, but my family was here. And so, I looked for a town. I basically was pretty, pretty neurotic. I got a map out and found out, went to the library. No one does that anymore, but I found out where their plastic surgeons and facial plastic surgeons back then, and.
I needed to have a town where I could be involved with a residency program. And you know, for some reason I knew from day one being in, I felt, I felt very secure in my training, I guess, too, which is important because you know, sometimes I encourage people to take a stint in a university for four or five years where they just get, you know, work their ass off.
Blood and guts all over him and, and really become better surgeons. But I just, I knew that I wanted my autonomy, I guess. And was willing to take the risk and whether it was brilliant or, or, or crazy. Iβm not really sure, but it, it worked for me, but things were definitely different back then.
I mean, we really didnβt have, you know, aesthetic. There was no non-surgical, so we had skin cancer and sewing, lacerations and trauma. So, I went out on my own and, you know, I went to a town where I didnβt realize this, but there was an eight-person plastic surgery group that. Probably, I think it was the oldest in the country at that point.
And they had it out for me. So, it wasnβt easy. It was not easy to start at all. They were, I mean, there was some goofy things like the bylaws in any of the major hospitals you had to be in practice for two years in good standing before you could get on the call schedule. Well, how do you start, you know, as a young person and, you know, I walked the ERs every morning and every night.
I did it, you know, it would go at the beginning of the shift and go at the end of the shift. And you know, slowly the phone would ring. I go visit 10 dermatologists and one or two would send me patients, you know, and they take a tray and you know, they would be happy, I guess. But a lot of people are not really, you know, we werenβt really interested in, in, in the new guy there, there wasnβt Instagram and there wasnβt marketing at all.
Really. There wasnβt, there werenβt even websites. I mean, you know, people have fax machines, so it really does sound like dark ages, but, you know, itβs the same, no matter whether itβs 20, 22 or whether itβs, you know, 1990. 30 years ago, itβs really all the same stuff, because I talked to a lot of young folks who so I, I believed in myself, I, I grew up in a small family business.
I, my, my, my dad was the only one who was educated. From college from high school that is of seven. So, there were no professionals in my family. It was really blazing a new educational trail, if you will. And then you know, I started to get a revenue. I lived very conservatively in the early years because I knew my end game was to continue to just reinvesting in the practice.
And I, itβs interesting when I was in practice 10 years and I remember meeting with the financial people and I think they were kind of shocked how little I had in security assets, you know? Because I had it all invested in the business and real estate and everything else, but and then eventually started to, you know, took care of the businesses, started to take care of me.
But that was, you know, years later. So, I donβt know. Thatβs kind of the short version of it. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MD: How did you get what possessed you to build a 22,000 square foot facility Iβve been there? Itβs gorgeous. Itβs beautiful. But what, how, how, how long were you in practice before you decided to do that? Cause that was a big jump.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: I started in 1992 and I broke ground in 97. So I was, I was definitely on the fast track. Again, maybe it was reckless. Iβm not really sure, but you know, the, the, the building of the real estate was probably one of the best decisions I ever made. At the time my wife will tell you, I lost a lot of sleep over it.
I get up in the middle of the night and pace. So, I was 37, 30, 8 years old, but I, when I made that you know, and I made that decision and itβs, itβs like, you know, when you commit to something, you have to make it work right. So, I did it at a young, at a young age. And so yeah.
Catherine Maley, MD: So, was the intent to grow your practice to fit a 22,000 square foot facility?
Or were you just going to practice on one floor and rent out the others? Like what was your thought process or your business model?
Edwin F. Williams, MD: So thatβs a good question. So., I wanted to maximize the real estate. I knew I wasnβt going to occupy it by myself, if we meaning put a surgery center in and my practice was over 50% of the building, you get more favorable interest rates because itβs owner occupied.
Okay. My plan was to slowly grow, to rent out the other space to help cover the mortgage, and then to slowly grow into the building. And we now We now occupy the entire building. So, and thatβs just really the last, you know, a John Wayne said once thereβs no such thing as a shortcut to a 20-year success.
And I, I remind some of the younger folks, because I didnβt have money. I didnβt have family money. I wasnβt, nothing was given to me except you know, add a boy and a kick in the ass. But I. My plan was, and we did, I mean, just this past year, we finally have taken over the entire building. So thatβs kind of cool.
But that was my plan. I needed something to, if I, if I figured if I made it just, you know, if I had help with it, I could always grow into it. And thatβs really what I did. I rented out actually I rented out half of the building. Initially there was a. Laser. It was called gimbal vision. They laser vision center that went in two or three years after I was in the building.
And that space was empty. They took over the space and they went, you know, they went bankrupt in two years and left me with a whole build-out. So I was, and thatβs when I first broke. Nurses and nurse injectors and started our rejuvenate center. So that was in 2002 or three. I was one of the first people in the country to have nurse injectors back then, but I figured, okay, I got to take over this space.
I got to do something with it. And I realized by separating the business model, by having them separated, you could have your own team. Strategic planning. And youβve heard all my, you know, my stuff on outbreak and how to escape your operations. But I knew that I could be more successful if we focused just on that.
And so that was actually grown separately on its own parallel track. But in the beginning, it was just kind of coincidence the other floors in the building. I rented out. I did have one plastic surgeon just took us, took space by had family. A woman who does hair extensions and all kinds of things like that.
And some of the space one was a laser hair removal. They were there for about three or four years. Then they went bankrupt and left us with space. So, it wasnβt all rosy. You know, the surgery center was one of our, is one of our tenants and weβve had a couple, weβre doing great with the surgery center now, but weβve had a couple of rough years for that too.
So, I donβt want to paint a picture that. Rosie. I mean, anytime someone sees reward, theyβve usually taken risks somewhere. And honestly, the first conversations I have with people that I bring on board, you know, colleagues, associates who end up eventually being partners is you know, what we have is not.
So, unless you want to write, you know, write me a big check. I get to make the decisions. But I talk about risk because itβs, I G gosh, I get weekly, Catherine, I get phone calls. How do you bring someone on board? And I both know 95% of us fail at that. Or maybe that maybe itβs a hundred. I donβt really know many people.
I mean, I donβt know anyone. Whoβs, whoβs got this many people on board and theyβre all about. Thatβs the challenge you have is when you bring really good people. Cause Iβm not, Iβm not looking for the biggest group. I want all rock stars and with rock, you got rockstar personalities, you know, but I always had this vision and thatβs why weβre right here by the airport of, of building a destination practice.
And we are, you know, the, the percentage gets, you know, larger and larger that people come from a distance now, but that was always kind of my vision. You get a bunch of rock stars, each specializing. In one place, and then you have an economy of scale that we have now. I mean, when you were here last. We certainly weβve completely renovated the building now, but we certainly didnβt have the team.
I mean, Iβve got an accounting team. I got a full-time CFCP CFO. I got a full-time person here as far as business development. In addition to Susan Sullivan, she just does operations. So, weβve really built now with an economy of scale, which allows us to do things at a higher level. And I learned that from a buddy of mine who I went, you know, it was in about 90.
About 2005. I went with, he ran a publicly traded company. I learned a lot of lessons from him and I was hanging out at the track cause they sponsored a zip Saratoga Raceway. They sponsored one of the races and I met his management team, his CFO. I met his person who was in charge of examinees merger, acquisitions his HR person.
Wow. Imagine if I had a team like that, how effective I could be. And Amy, you know, realize the benefit of having an economy of scale and helping your talent and building a team that was a real Tiffany for me. And so, it was a long process, but it didnβt happen over. Well,
Catherine Maley, MD: I think the doctors, you know, I talked to an awful lot of surgeons and they like what comes first?
You know, theyβre, theyβre very risk adverse naturally and void because the whole point is to run your practice like a business and a business has people in charge of the profit centers and youβre not running the whole show, but number one, you have to let go of control. You never do. You still have to manage it or leave.
And then number three, youβve got to get the right people. And then, but then the doctors are thinking, how am I going to pay all these people? Like theyβre not even revenue generators. Theyβre like, theyβre important people for business. And until you can figure, like, look at that and say, but theyβre leaving you more time to do what you need to do to grow the practice.
Can you speak on that? Like how did you scale without fearing you canβt pay for all of
Edwin F. Williams, MD: this. Well, I did it slowly, but, but youβre, youβre absolutely right because I talked, I, you know, I, I talk about this on my podcast too. I think the physicians are almost set up for failure here by the very nature that they made it through plastic surgery or facial plastic surgery, and at the top of their game, they have an ego and you canβt build a very successful team.
If youβve got an ego, itβs just that. Right. You look at the best CEOs you look at like Jim Collins work great by choice. Youβre built to last or a good-to-great, which is probably my favorite book. And I reference it all the time is level five leaders have humility. And they realize the importance of the team.
We learn going through our training that we learned to be individualists and we learned to be independent. We learn not to lean on people. We go to the emergency room in the middle of the night and someoneβs bleeding all over and, you know, God forbid you get somebody to help you. So, you learn how. You know, open up the instrument pack with your feet and you know, and so we learned to survive as individually individuals and then, you know, people cause I, I get friends of mine call me all the time.
So, itβs like, I want to bring, I want to bring on a plastic surgeon. I know done this. How do you do it? I said, you got, you know, you got, you got several hours. First of all, there arenβt enough hours for me to be on the phone. Cause I could tell people that are just not coachable, right. 30 to 40% of physicians I talk to are not even talking.
And they donβt realize it and they donβt want to hear it, but if their ego gets in the way, if theyβre not willing to give things up, theyβre not willing to share equity play by the same rules. This is another big one. I see all the time, you know, you know, Dr. Joe Smith has been in practice 12 years.
He starting to do well, you know, but he wants more time off. And so, we want to bring someone up. Well, no one, no rock star is going to come on and take all the junk you donβt want. And by the way, your practice now is a lifestyle business. You know, I donβt know if you know, differences you probably do because youβre a business person, but a lot of physicians, when I say that, theyβre like, what do you mean?
I said, are you growing a business to have a business, to have assets and have profit, you know, re an ROI. No EBITDA, do you have income at DIA? Do you have profit at the end? Itβs worth something or do have a light lifestyle business? Are you living? Off your business. And I dare to say, most physicians say savior in practice for 12 years in a very successful, you know, they theyβre over expensing things there.
And so now they bring someone else on board. You have to live by those same rules, right. That you canβt expect them to come on and be partner. And by the way, youβre living, you know, youβre living off the business and, and itβs, itβs hard to break that mindset, especially someone. And by the way, Iβm no, weβre no different than any other small business people.
You know, how many small business people, their businesses, a lifestyle business, They have no real intention to grow it, to sell it or to divest it. In fact, so many small business people get to that right age. And all of a sudden you realize your businesses donβt risk anything because they havenβt set it up to sell it. I donβt know if that answered your question. I know.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, talking about scaling, they only way you can get out of being the only service provider. Cause thatβs the problem. Youβre the service provider and it takes you to be that. So how does, how do you scale? Well, you open up different profit centers, which is what you did, or you bring on partners, but do you bring them on as a partner?
Are you better off starting off? I donβt know, an associate and seeing how it works out, like what youβve been through a lot of that, like what, whatβs your best bet to bring somebody else on?
Edwin F. Williams, MD: So, the first thereβs two kinds of two parts to that. I have, as you know, Iβve got a, a chief operating officer, someone who runs in, in the problem, cause I actually got buddies of mine who were trying to do the same thing with law firms.
If you are still a technician, which I am. That takes a lot of your time. Unless, you know, thereβs some people that donβt want to be doctors and surgeons. I still really enjoy, you know, I still really enjoy that part of my life and you canβt do that. And then by the way, hereβs the other thing is we devalue the importance of running the business.
You know, we want to five oβclock in the afternoon, you know, when weβre. I mean, Iβm talking to you in the middle of the day. Itβs noon, but I put this in the schedule a month ago and Iβm going to make time because this is a priority. Most of us, God forbid we take time for meetings during the day. Now the other option is to run your family.
Ragged, you know, will not be present in home at night or on the weekends, which you know how I feel about that. Right. Weβve talked about it. I donβt even want to do, I donβt even want to have a phone call after, you know, after six oβclock at night because you know, I, I. BN on, on my, a game. So thatβs the first part of is you.
And this is where thereβs two parts to this too, because so many doctors, they bring your spouses in to run the business because youβre too damn cheap to pay a real, a real operation person. Am I right? Yeah. Okay. And then the other, or they just donβt want it. They donβt want to spend the money to bring someone in.
Youβre never. So, I live my mantra. What I live by is if thereβs somebody that can do something 80% as well as I can do it, itβs time to move on in surgery included by the way. So, you know, and thatβs what I struggle with right now because you know, Iβm 62, Iβve worked very hard to be in a position where I donβt need to work.
Iβm there. But walking away from surgery is really hard. Itβs really hard. But if you do, it takes you a long time to get good at it. So, making, having a discipline to invest in. And, you know, have the conversations, being able to hold them accountable, respectful. They, so that they, you know, you donβt just go out and hereβs the other problem.
Doctors say, I need a COO. Okay. And rather than really vet the heck out of it, slow to hire, which is, you know, Jack Welch, they go out and they hire someone and it doesnβt work out in six months and theyβre cause theyβre a freaking hot mess and they didnβt. Do it correctly, doctors solve problems. How do you solve a problem?
You solve it quickly. You know, weβre used to being, being surgeries. Thatβs not higher. So, you have a, you know, you have a couple failures there, but if you have that right person, then you can go to the next. Does that make sense? So, and rather than, you know, and I, you know, what blows my mind because you know this, you and I had this conversation.
I have a lot of friends in real estate. I have a lot of friends in insurance. They a ton of money on personal and professional development. I spent a ton of money on personal and professional development. I know you do too. Okay. God forbid, doctors spend a few dollars. I have a guy thatβs on a retainer. I meet with them once a month.
I have, you know, all the different things I can do and you do the same thing, but physicians donβt value this stuff. They think itβs beneath them. And I know Iβm preaching to the choir, but this is the single most important thing is that is switching your mindset. Back and forth from being a surgeon to a business person and realizing that you canβt do it all.
So, when you bring that person on again, and to me, if you look at the ideal team and youβve got a person whoβs in charge of developing, growing our business, we have someone now you met, maybe youβve met Monique. Sheβs a. Sheβs got her BS in neuroscience, in an MBA, and sheβs smart as hell. Thatβs her job.
And so, if you start to say, okay, what could I achieve too? And then no, you have to do it slowly. But rather than a, an old timer told me, say, if you take care of the business, it will take care of you. And thatβs kind of where Iβm, where Iβm at instead of going out and buying a new Mercedes ed Williams.
Gets jacked up or hereβs a better one. Iβm going to go buy a, you know, some new piece of technology that conveniently price is priced around a hundred thousand dollars. Okay. You know what? I get excited when I hire a rockstar on our team. So, I invest in people, but again, back, go back to Jim Collins. I invest in the people and make it a place where they want to be. And itβs a win when we win versus, you know, buying more tools.
Catherine Maley, MD: For sure. While weβre on the subject of staff, you are very good at setting up a culture. And when I consult with practices, I think the culture thing confuses them. Like, what do you mean? Whatβs it going on? Whatβs culture? That thatβs, so it becomes so important, especially for somebody like you, who isnβt afraid to add 75 staff.
Now, most of my is cringing right now itβs managing 75 staff, but the, the, the mindset. Change that, or the mindset shift you have to make is staff is not an overhead expense staff is an asset. You speak to that.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Yeah, I can. I can, you know it, it is a mindset because most of us say, okay, Iβm making all the revenue and you, all people are taking it from me. Yeah. Right. So. Investing in the people now, the late herb Keller, whoβs the CEO of Southwest for many years who founded Southwest and heβs got an amazing and fascinating story says thereβs three roles of the CEO.
And I, I recite it so frequently and my team gets tired of hearing it. But number one, people have to see your vision for me. Itβs. Putting a world-class practice together and a destination practice with super specialized people. Okay. Number two, how you make money? You got to tell your people how to make money.
You know, my, my management team, thereβs four or five of them. They see the numbers; doctors wonβt take their class. They are afraid to show the numbers to their people. Okay. And then third and probably the most important thing is create the culture. That is the number, the three most important things that the CEO vision, tell your people how you make money and then creating your culture.
Now, I got to tell you, when I read a lot of Verne Harnishβs work habits on, you know, creating a culture 15 years ago. Itβs I can understand why most physicians have a hard time getting this in their head because I did too. That sounds kind of corn. I mean, what do you mean I got to, you know, create, so how do you create a culture itβs by every single day, everything you do is deliberate and intentional.
Iβll give you an example. Our culture here is, you know, we have our motto. The Williams center taking care of each other and you, and we do that and we live and we live it and we breathe it and we talk about it. Okay. At the huddles in the morning, if somebody, you know, is an example of our culture, we shouldβ¦we, you know, they bring it up.
My managers do, do you know yesterday, Brianna you know, so-and-so broke down in the north way. She drove up there herself, used her AAA card and got their tire fixed because they donβt have triple. Okay. Thatβs a true story. And, and, and, you know, we just want you to know Brandon, you know, I mean, thatβs exactly who we are and I just want youβ¦kudos to you.
So, itβs and then we will hire people. And so again, our, our motto is Williamson or take care of each other. You and our part of our culture is we have a culture of winning and accountability, brutal honesty. In reality and having the difficult conversations with people in a structure or whether itβs coaching or whether itβs my Mo my monthly meeting with the managers, where we talk about these things and.
Because I know that theyβve done their coaching and when I asked them and I get the whole structure, you know, but Iβm just jumping around. But if, if, if my manager knows that Iβm going to say, who did you coach this month? And she says, Brit. And I said, okay. And you know, what is she struggling with? You know, what does she think that we should do as a business?
Where does she think weβre leaving money on the table? Whatβs the biggest frustration they know Iβm asking those questions every month? Do you think. And not coach somebody that month. And so, what do I mean by winning an accountability, thatβs the winning and accountability, you know, you help us grow our culture and put it to the bottom line?
Youβre going to get rewarded. And we, and now, because we have an economy scale and we have a very significant, you know, profit EBITDA at the bottom of. We handed out some huge bonuses this year and or 2021. And thatβs because itβs tied to profitability through. So thatβs, thatβs our culture you show up.
And when you know, you know, you let me hold you accountable you. And by the way, people are not part of our culture. They donβt last. And thereβs a guy by the name of Ray Dahlia. Whoβs a, he just wrote a book called principles and I read it over the Christmas break and I, I couldnβt put it. Guys weβre in hundreds hundred, most influential people in the world, UK, weβre the fifth largest private companies in the world.
And wondrous wealthiest people. You probably know who he is. Yeah. So, and Bridgewater, not Blackstone, but he, but anyway, my new mantra is if, if people arenβt, arenβt part of our vision. Okay. And theyβre here for just a paycheck. Get rid of them. And that is your culture. So when, when people know that if they deliver, theyβre going to be rewarded and itβs talked about on the, you know, at the interview, itβs talked about at the huddles, itβs talked about at our meetings with brutal honesty, which is you canβt do at four oβclock in the afternoon.
So, the mindset change really for the physician is to become a deliberate, deliberate, really become a business person. But I got to tell you a culture is a really hard thing to wrap your head around because it requires being brutally, brutally honest with each other. Weβd let them, we all have things we struggle with, right?
Weβre not good at everything. Letβs talk about it. Letβs, you know, letβs do an assessment and find out what Catherineβs struggle. And build it. And but thatβs it, you know, I read this once and I, I believe it now, when people start to refer to your culture is almost a cult. You when youβre there.
And, and, and I do believe that now, because I think our culture now is, is stronger than ever. We, we, we ha I mean, itβs kind of corny, but weβre like a place to work. People want to be here. Iβve had people say to me, Take a job at the front desk and say to me, I just wanted to get my foot in the door there, but itβs, it is probably the most difficult thing to do because it doesnβt come naturally to those of us who are individualists and performers and have learned to do it ourselves because we donβt understand how important that team is.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, talking about the team. We have to talk about how youβre motivating them and especially with bonuses. And one thing that gets all kind of alluded is when you have the closer the coordinator who is the closer, she had that position happens to become this us and them kind of thing. Like, like sheβs bringing it and nobody elseβs, but it takes a team to do that.
You have been very good about building the team culture. So, people are not. Directly compensated for their productivity. They worked together as a team, but then they donβt know what their bonus is going to be. But then I think to myself, but you know what, thatβs not the right culture for you. If Iβm money motivated.
And I come in and I want to know if I sell this for you, what do I get? Like, then I wouldnβt be a good fit for your culture. Like, can you talk, speak on that because thatβsβ¦
Edwin F. Williams, MD: No, no, I can, I can absolutely speak on it. So, first of all, any problem or challenge you have in one business has been solved in another industry already?
What can we agree? Right. So, all I did was steal ideas from other people. Right? Okay. So, you made reference to performance models. I believe so. Our senior PM. Have a performance model that is a very nice base salary and they are tied to the increase in the profitability of the business that they are involved with.
Okay. Our highest-level people who are crossover all the businesses, like for example, Susan and our CFO, they had the same thing, but overseeing all businesses. As you come down, the position in the skills become different. Our patient concierge. For example, if you, by the way, the, the, the personality of the salesperson is very different than a personality of a nurse.
Can we agree on that? Yes. Nurses in the culture of nurse nursing is not to want their handout. Okay. In fact, Iβve had nurses who youβve come to interview and they were somewhere else and they were used to getting tips. I wonβt hire them. I mean, because theyβre not part of our culture, you know, thereβs medical team is when youβre delivering care is different.
However, the skills that it takes to sell, and if you want more sales, you hire more and better salespeople. They will chase a dollar.
Patient concierge having a nice base. And then they get a small percentage, which they know that number by the way. So, this is different nurse injectors. Weβre going to talk about them too. A very small percentage of, of what they see over a certain revenue number okay. For the year and thatβs distributed quarterly and we hold back some and we give it at the end.
My point for telling you is that a big part of the salary is not. The percentage piece, because then it becomes a fee-split if ever questioned by an OPMC. The other problem is I have had made this mistake where I have patient concierge or patient care coordinators who are like, you know, I generated a hundred thousand dollars this week and we thatβs hereβs a correction.
Okay. No, no, no, no, no. I had this, I had one of our patient care and I said, no, We did as a team, everybody from the front desk. So, and the minute they start to feel that theyβre indispensable, you need to get another one. And that is what we do. That balancing act. We never get anyone become indispensable so they know what they know, and they have the other, we actually just introduced this issue.
We started to notice that the patient concierge, we coming a little too individually. You know, on their own. So, then we put another layer in for them to cooperate with each other, and itβs not a ton of money, but itβs enough that they know that if the phone call comes itβs, thatβs not Pattyβs patient thatβs, you know, itβs, our patient is part of the team.
Nurse injectors. What I, what I indicated to you is that we pay them. I have found, and I, and I listen, Iβve got people been living for 20 years, 22 years, you know, so, and we have a lot of longevity in our staff here, which it, you know, I mean, thatβs the biggest, I hear this all over. I donβt know what youβre doing there.
I canβt keep people. You know what the problem is. They, they hire people too quickly. They train them and they expect them to solve the problem with the, everything. And what they did is they hired the wrong person. They dig hired too quickly. So, if you get that right person, you bring them on their part of the culture names, you know, when, after they started to become trained and we want you to understand, we pay attention to the numbers and we, we see what youβre doing and whatever, and they, we donβt tell them exactly what, but they do get quarterly bonuses and they know those numbers theyβre tied to their productivity.
The manager. I do see all the profit loss of balance sheets or the business Iβve learned. You canβt show everybody because you know, hourly front desk person, or even one of the nurses, they see these numbers and they think theyβre huge numbers. In reality, they donβt know what the expenses are. Oh. So, Iβm very transparent with our, with our partners.
Iβm very transparent with the management team. We even had someone who is are running all our marketing and we had to, we just decided that, you know, she wasnβt someone, we wanted to see the numbers because, you know, in her mind, itβs like, oh my God, Iβm worth a lot of money. You know? Itβs. I canβt say I have the answer for all of that, but what we are doing works and I am, I am absolutely opposed to an arrangement where, you know, the nurse, by the way, itβs illegal, you know, I can pay an MD 20% of gross on injectables, 35% of net gross on surgery.
But, and, and, and it blows my mind when I have arguments with colleagues of mine, that they disagree with me and they say, no, cause itβs not Medicare. It doesnβt matter. Go look it up in the American college assertion, revenue sharing with a non-physician is unethical. And, and, and instead in New York, itβs considered minimum medical misconduct.
And let me tell you, you do not want OPMC banging at your door. Theyβre worse than malpractice. So, I donβt profess to have all the answers, but I do know what we do work. A part of is, is it comes with the conversations. It comes with the conversations and then sit downs. And if thereβs one thing I do better than we ever have done, excuse me, in the past is communication.
Every time we have a problem, one of the businesses starts to run off track a little. I realized the communication has been. Whether itβs the managers meetings and Iβm not rolling up my sleeves and digging up, or, you know, digging, digging, digging deep enough. But I, Iβm sorry to go on, but itβs not like a one size fits all kind of thing, but I, I do believe, like I said, our, our managers received some half the bonuses this year.
And I can talk to you about this offline a little bit more, but I have no problem with that because theyβre the ones dealing with the headaches. Theyβre the ones dealing with this one called in. And so, the way we deal with that, cause this is, this is the, you know, a nurse comes and says, you know, I, I know that cause they all talk right.
So, let me ask you something. So, are you, you know, are you looking, does that mean youβre interested in patient condition? Well, I, I, I, you know, itβs a different position. The different skillset is you. If thereβs a position you could apply for that position. But you know, we all think weβre valuable, but, but the reality is sales drives.
Sales and marketing, you know, I mean the old saying, right, CEOs all hate marketing. They know that half of the marketing works, but, but is a very integral part. And one of the things thatβs changed and said, you know, you and I worked, Iβve realized how important, how important marketing now, you know? And having.
Good marketing. And you know, youβre very ethical, but thereβs a lot of, and Iβm going to say this because Iβve known you for a long time, and I know youβd be a very honest person, but you know, theyβre, especially in the digital space, there are so many unethical people out there trying to profess to be, you knowβ¦
Catherine Maley, MD: And promising you so many patients every month, you wonβt even be able to take lunch.
And Iβm so tired of the, over the over promising and under deliver, because then that affects all of us. I know that it takes persistence to grow a practice and itβs not an overnight, then itβs not a one hit wonder. And if you can try that, but youβre going to end up doing it. You have to get the fundamentals in place.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: In 2015, I realized that I had too much responsibility on my plate for my other associates and partners. And if I wanted to build a team, I needed to get more professional in my marketing. Well, I made an incredible mistake. I hired and I got to tell you a call cost us multiple. I donβt even want to tell you what it cost us.
Multiple. Okay. Six figures. Oh my God. Thereβs this group that was going to take over everything, including social. And they profess themselves to be incredible, like really incredible. Okay. And they were an incredible disaster here later, our revenue dropped 25%. They had totally locked up on everything.
They totally over promised and under delivered and I donβt know he did, you know, all I know is they were an incredible disaster.
Catherine Maley, MD: Oh, how long did it take for you to figure out that things were going sideways? Because itβs not even just the money, itβs the time that youβre losing.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Actually, you make a really good point.
So, we had, so, and I, you know, these are people that you and Iβve shared the podium with. Hmm. Okay. And Iβm, Iβm disgusted at how they took advantage of us. They didnβt. So, the first we had someone whoβd been with for 12. And again, you know, someone I like actually, and I had, I had to come toβ¦Jesusβ¦conversation with them in 2015.
And I said, you got one year. And by the way, Iβm not afraid to spend money. Okay. Iβm not afraid, but I need, and we put, you know, we put someone on hold, holding them accountable and see whatever. And, and all, they were interested in selling us more shit, selling us more shit in bigger programs and whatever.
And the reality was they didnβt deliver it. And at the end of that at the end of that year, I had a, another βcome to Jesusβ conversation because when we got rid of them, it took us six months to get our website back to get. And I actually hit that on the phone with them. Okay. And I said, Robert, you and I are going to be on the podium in about three months.
And Iβd hope not to take this out on the podium. Well know what a freaking shyster you guys are. Okay. And I donβt need to say last names, but you can do dues do the math. So, then we ended up going to another. Group that was recommended by, you know, a consultant. I have a ton of respect for, and they were, they did a nice job designing website, but they didnβt, they didnβt know SEO.
And that was another year of a slow screw we got. So, then I think we were, we were right to go with someone begged who had, I was like, Letβs throw some serious money at this. We brought these people on and it was, it was an incredible disaster. So, I can say and it was, we. North of like $300,000 for a year.
And our numbers were down today. They over, they over delivered. We actually took, we hired someone, brought them in house. They, and they cause we had this big operation, but they locked up and they were just not getting their work done. And they had put a bringing new. And you know, what I realized was I talk about this with professionals.
They knew how to sell. But they didnβt have to run a business. So, they were having their Shera terror turnover, you know, when they were, you know, weβre in, we got four offices all over the world, you know, who Iβm talking about. Right. And so, we, you know, they were having a turn on their account executives and people, and the numbers were not changing.
The SEO was terrible. And, and hereβs the other thing I learned about it is everybody. It was what I called the blame game. The last one did this and they have all their broken links. And the last two years we, we brought it all pretty much in house. We realized that social media has to be done in. How can somebody represent me?
Okay. People donβt just want to say, buy your shit, buy your shit. And then outsource things like SEO or some of the things that you do. But now we have it all. We donβt have anything independent on one are dependent on one person, but I didnβt realize how important it was to her. And I have, Iβve got responsibility, a lot of doctors here, but we, we ended up bringing someone in house who just did the Saratoga hair transplant site.
And honestly, the next month. The ladies were going growing, you know, and it was because this, these people had a so locked up. And when I see them at the meeting, I canβt even look at them because what I really want to do is, is make it public so that the exploiter take advantage of someone again. But Iβm like, you know, We lost two years with those clowns two years.
And it was at every meeting. It was like the same thing over and over. And I wasnβt at the meetings, but my team was. But so, I realized the importance of marketing, but I realized theyβre not, not everyone is as ethical as you are. Well, this is you because you see these people at the meetings and theyβre on the podium and then theyβre selling themselves and, you know, you know, the quality of.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, I definitely know the difference between sales and marketing and actually executing what you, what you sold in marketing. You know, thereβs a really big difference there. And Iβve also this thing about outsourcing. Itβs getting so much more popular to outsource because you canβt be everything to everybody.
So, you hand it off to the experts, but if you hand it off to the wrong experts, well, look what happens. You lose time and money, and then youβre jaded. And then. Well, no wonder youβre a control freak because every time you let it go, right, all hell breaks out. But thereβs the accountability you got to hold everybody accountable.
So, somebodyβs office needs to hold that person accountable and make sure thatβ¦
Edwin F. Williams, MD: β¦That have now. And I think that, you know, we have this economy of scale where we can, we can put the resource, it. But the but the average person out there, one person show guyβs been in practice or one been in practice 10, 12 years need to find people like you, where they can outsource this sort of thing.
And, and with someone who whoβs honest, because you donβt have the economy of scale that we do, or the revenue to work with that we do now, you know, but I got to say this, that it has been, you know, thatβs been one of my biggest challenges since Iβve been a PR you know, part of it is. Iβm not Iβm I rather like fly under the radar.
You know that about me. Iβm not really wants to see my name all over things, but so I, Iβve never really enjoyed, you know, as I say to people, you know, my generation got on the podium and spoke and did humanitarian things. Cause it was the, it was the right thing to do. And you know, a lot of younger people, itβs all about the photo op for Instagram, you know, Itβs but it made me realize we canβt ignore you canβt ignore the marketing thing.
You, you just canβt. I mean, if there was someone, you know, if you could solve that, but one of the challenges, if physicians are not willing to put the, but the re the appropriate time and resources into it, either bill. Right.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well, you know what? Scott horror. So, thanks to the social media. It takes the surgeon to market themselves.
Like you need the surgeon to be the, the material and thatβs not helping just know youβre a surgeon and youβre a content maker and youβre a you know, a marketer and a leader and a visionary. And dear God.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Well, one of the things that we do now is I have, we have a room that we completely fit up. Itβs got, you know, five of these itβs really cool marketing rooms, got the five and the desks do up and down.
And we have a bank of interns and, you know, and, and you know, so we have someone over them, but the bank of interns, they work 15 hours and their job is to take the content for the doctors and get it out there. But. Basically, to my dock. So, you guys canβt expect them to do people. Donβt just want to see buy my shit, buy my shit, buy my shit.
Right. They want to get to know them. They want to get to family. They want to see your personality. They want to see the real side of you and that your. And getting that content out there in a respectful way. And itβs not going to happen overnight is, is got to be an organic homegrown method where the doctors involved you and, you know, and, and, and shame on these incredibly terrible people who told us they could take our social media.
You can correct me if Iβm wrong. If the doctorβs not involved and youβre not getting, youβre not going to be able to make up content and grow someone in.
Catherine Maley, MD: Right. Itβs so inauthentic. You can see it from a mile away. Thereβs no personality, no emotion to it. So, tell me, we all do it for other practices, but itβs not, itβs not, I donβt call that marketing.
I call it something you donβt want to do.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Just one piece of it, but social media be social. Okay. People donβt again, donβt just want to see my, my, my one partner yen. He couldnβt, he couldnβt understand why his Instagram wasnβt grown. Right. And we said you know, people donβt just want to see breasts, dog breasts, dog breasts, dog.
They want. And by the way, when youβre just throwing, you know, funny stuff out there all the time, there is some people are going to click off because they donβt want to get that shit showing up in her feed. Right. So, you, you know, understanding, but we realized no, that has to be done in house. And one of the things I, you know, I say to my colleagues here is like you guys, without, I used to say this at the APRs meetings, we, you know, PR firms, God bless them.
The firms we had over two years and they would, they would come to me because. And I used to talk to my colleagues and I say, guys, you canβt expect the PR firm to deliver us for us. If weβre not giving them content. Well, theyβre not improving our whatever. Weβd give them nothing.
Catherine Maley, MD: Well but thatβs, thatβs the secret, the successful practice figures out how to outsource what theyβre not good at, so they can have time to do what they now need to get good at, which is if youβre going to do social media and youβve got to, you got to figure that out.
Now you need new skills that you didnβt need before. Thatβs for sure. So, I know you have to go pretty soon, but would you just tell me like three nuggets that like all the years that youβve been at this. What, what things have made the biggest difference for you? I know like that one, like staff is not an overhead expense.
Theyβre an asset. Another one might be. Thatβ¦
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Thatβs, thatβs, thatβs a really important one. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MD: And like patients for life, I think you, you feel strongly about that as well. And then, well, at the med spa, you canβt do this one-off thing as well as you used to.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Well, you know, we quote you Catherine, because it, when people say, yo, you know, my patients donβt Crow across town there, they got thereβs one, they just laughed.
Right. Yeah. And so. We actually, thereβs a weβre now we are now. Well, hereβs another Pearl. W we just went through this exercise about a year and a half ago. Thereβs a book called the customer of the future. Iβm trying to remember the authorβs name. Oh, no, itβs phenomenal. The woman or the customer of the future.
And basically. Iβll summarize the book in about 30 seconds here, but what we are now is patient customer centric, as you could possibly be. And I talked about, which is whatβs brilliant is because this book was written before COVID and then it happened. And as I was reading, it is more relevant now with COVID than it ever has been, by the way, theyβre not comparing you to your, your competitor down the street.
The customerβs comparing you to Amazon. Okay. The frictionless customer experience. And so, weβre obsessed with the customer experience. Now we thought we were product innovation. We all thought we were innovators to patients. Donβt give a damn about Dr. Williams credentials. You feel right. So, one asks one, Pearl would be it, you know, itβs all about, itβs all about the people and the culture.
And itβs all about your customers. Itβs not about you. And then just, you know, changing your mindset, I think is a big one or adopting the mindset of understanding that are you trying to grow a business or are you growing a lifestyle around you? And if you want to be deliberate, you have to put the time in the energy, in the work and spend that.
The resources on doing that you know, physicians are very cheap on wanting to invest in their business, but they have no problem going out, buying brand new Mercedes, for sure. You know? And you know what Iβm talking about because you deal with it every day, you know, try to get, you know, $5,000 out of a doctor, you know, but, but they have no problems.
Do you know what, you know, what I, to what I worked for watch? Oh, I got friends. Whoβve got these fancy watches. Like I got to worry about the damn thing. So, look, I appreciate you letting me chat with you. Itβs always an honor Catherine and you know; I have a ton of respect for you. What youβve accomplished.
Thank you.
Catherine Maley, MD: How would they get a hold of you? If somebody does want to talk with you or get into your world, how would they do.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: Go through, I have a website that has a bunch of podcasts on it, and itβs www.DrEdwinWilliams.com and then just shoot us an email through there. You know, through that website.
And again, itβs always an honor talking to you. I, I, you know, youβve been in the industry, you know, it as well as anyone. And I know you can help, you know, help people out because youβve been there. My recommendation to someone younger as far as you know, is to outsource, you know, invest in your team and then.
And outsource the things that you, youβre not going to be good at because you canβt do it all. And try to be very deliberate on what youβre doing as far as running a business and making a business.
Catherine Maley, MD: Thank you so much, Dr. Williams. Itβs always a pleasure. I hope to see you at a meeting coming up soon.
Edwin F. Williams, MD: All right, Catherine.
Weβll see you.
Catherine Maley, MD: Thank you everybody. Thanks so much for joining us at Beauty and the Biz. And if you feel so inclined, weβd love a review at iTunes. Thatβd be great. If youβve got any questions or feedback for me, please leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com or feel free to DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much. And weβll talk again soon.
This concludes this episode of Beauty and the Biz: Interview with Edwin F. Williams III, MD (Ep.139)
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons #thewilliamscenter #dredwinwilliams #edwinwilliamsmd #lathamplasticsurgeon
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Cosmetic Patient Retention Guide for 2022
In this episode Iβm going to talk about why patient retention should be your #1 Focus because would you rather have a patient one time or for a lifetime?
The real money and leverage is in the lifetime cosmetic patient since you spent a lot of money attracting them to you, so they are pure profit from then on.
Cosmetic patient retention, outlined in my Cosmetic Patient Retention Guide, comes down to a few specific elements that make all the difference.
Those are: providing a WOW experience, staying top-of-mind, and building a relationship that establishes you as trusting, reliable and likable.
Hereβs how to 10X the Value of Loyal Cosmetic Patients:
Beyond the revenue generated by repeat cosmetic patients, there are social benefits to having a loyal following. The first of which is the power of your practice evangelists who return, review, refer, approve their before/after photos to be shown to the public, videotape a testimonial, and share you on social media.
This is the main reason why a focus on cosmetic patient retention can create your unpaid marketing sales team by boosting your revenues significantly so a cosmetic patient who was worth $1K to you is now worth $10K to you when you have a retention/loyalty system in place.
And Letβs talk about Word of Mouth Referrals from these loyal patients.
It only makes sense that cosmetic patients have to remember your brand in order to promote it. On top of that, if they have a WOW experience, they are much more likely to buy from you, and to refer their friends and family.
There are various studies that show that word-of-mouth marketing is one of the most valuable forms of marketing.
Why is that? Because 92% of people trust recommendations from friends and family over other types of advertising.
Once consumers get a recommendation from someone they trust, they are far more likely to become loyal cosmetic patients.
Once a cosmetic patient is loyal to your practice, they are more likely to spend more as well. The lifetime value of referred cosmetic patients is 16% higher than non-referred cosmetic patients.
How the referral occurred makes a difference too. A Harris Poll found that 82% of consumers said they seek recommendations from friends and family, and 67% said they are more likely to purchase when a friend or family member shared it through social media or email.
Social media influencers are a good form of word-of-mouth marketing as well. Though influencers may not be family and friends, they offer valuable and somewhat unbiased opinions that their followers trust, and that can influence their buying decisions.
However, the quality of your customer service is measured by the kind of relationship you establish with your cosmetic patients, and that relationship will determine how invested they are in your success.
Revenues from happy cosmetic patients, as well as word- of-mouth recommendations, have the power to become a huge portion of your annual revenues, dramatically reducing your cosmetic patient acquisition costs and increasing your revenues.
Here are the Common Barriers to Patient Retention.
Due to the profit maximizers and social benefits of cosmetic patient retention, it is important to understand exactly why cosmetic patients quit your practice.
That understanding comes from learning about cosmetic patient preferences, and the factors that cause them to churn.
Churn, or attrition, is one of the most devastating factors affecting profitability because you lose the investment it took to attract each cosmetic patient in the first place, in addition to the loss of potential future revenues and referrals.
Even a 5% monthly churn rate means a 60% loss of cosmetic patients over the course of one year. That statistic alone is scary enough, but on average, an individual will tell nine people about good experiences and 16 people about poor experiences.
Imagine if 60% of your cosmetic patients were telling 16 of their friends about bad service they had received with you.
The numbers add up quickly and itβs clear to see why itβs so important to learn why patients churn and how to minimize it.
So, when it comes to attrition prevention, the effect of patient relationships is truly astounding. Research has shown that improving the cosmetic patient experience helps increase loyalty and drives growth.
Relationship building encompasses different things, but the most important aspect is the cosmetic patientβs perception of their own importance to your practice.
They want exceptional cosmetic patient service, appreciation, and a personal touch that helps them connect on a deeper level than your average practice interaction.
Have you ever been a βregularβ at a restaurant, brewery, or coffee shop? When someone goes into a practice and they know them by name, that can go a long way in making them feel special and will certainly make them want to come back.
Because hereβs the thing..
Emotions drive patient decisions, and those emotions are strongly affected by their personal interactions with a practice.
When cosmetic patients are ready for more cosmetic rejuvenation, what will make them return to you instead of your competitors?
Being memorable and a creative loyalty program can go a long way in turning a one-time cosmetic patient into a lifelong cosmetic patient.
Neglecting the relationship, however, or failing to keep in touch, can almost guarantee that patient will shop around and wander off to your competitors.
The plastic surgery industry only sees cosmetic patients a few times a year (or even every few years) so you are especially susceptible to passive churn because cosmetic patients may simply forget about their previous positive experiences.
By connecting with them on a personal level, a consistent relationship serves as a foundation for staying top of mind anytime they need cosmetic rejuvenation.
However, when we talk about loyalty, we need to talk about Customer Service because they work hand in hand.
Bad customer service is the No. 1 problem leading to dissatisfaction and attrition. A consumer is four times more likely to defect to a competitor if the problem is service related rather than price or procedure related.
This tells you that cosmetic patients care more about the social aspect of a practice than they do the personal cost, or even the quality of their procedure.
So consumers are now prioritizing quality of interaction over personal gain and they feel emotionally invested in their buying decisions.
While this provides an opportunity for practices to foster connections, it can also be a double-edged sword. If cosmetic patients feel ignored, mistreated, or generally dissatisfied,
they are considerably more likely to take their business elsewhere, regardless of the quality of the service.
So, what else is causing cosmetic patients to leave one practice for another? β¦β¦
Here it isβ¦.Retention Isnβt a Practice Priority.
Most cosmetic practices have a greater focus on cosmetic patient leads, and only a few focus on retention.
The shiny new object in our industry is the new cosmetic patient. Gaining a new cosmetic patient is exciting. Itβs proof that your marketing efforts are working and, of course, itβs new revenues.
But when all of the focus is put on cosmetic patient acquisition, it leaves existing cosmetic patients feeling like they were left out in the cold.
Practices often tend to treat new cosmetic patients better as well by offering a welcome discount, a free gift with their first purchase, etc., with the hope that putting in a lot of effort at the beginning will be enough to maintain them as long-term cosmetic patients.
When you change this mindset from short-sighted acquisition that is focused on the one-time procedure to cosmetic patient retention that measures the cosmetic patientsβ lifetime value and potential profit as a whole, you win the long game.
So, How Can You Improve Cosmetic Patient Retention?
I read an article where the author compares marketing to pushing a boulder uphill β you can either do it yourself, or you can recruit an army of enthusiastic cosmetic patients to help you push your practice to the top for you.
The boulder metaphor is a great example because it really embodies the physical and emotional struggle of sales and marketing, which can sometimes feel like an uphill battle.
It also shows how a strong relationship with cosmetic patients can become a revenue lifeline through retention, referrals and social proof.
You turn your existing patient list into your network and keep in touch so they remember you when talking to friends.
There is no simple equation for making cosmetic patients stay, but there are several strategies practices can focus on in order to minimize their attrition rates, increase their retention value, and boost referrals.
For example, you can play on patientsβ inherent desire for reciprocity similar to a free mint with your check at a restaurant that was found to increase tips by up to 20%.
Whether it be through thoughtful gestures (like free gifts) or exceptional cosmetic patient service, the point is that people love to be appreciated, and they feel obligated to return the favor.
So, knowing this, rather than having a goal of making money, go into every transaction wondering what you can do to improve that cosmetic patientβs life, change their day, or make something easier for them.
This is one of the key ways to ensure that cosmetic patient service goes beyond the first visit, and it also improves your chances of transitioning prospects into cosmetic patients who return, refer, review and share you on social media.
And be sure you are Communicating With Your ExistingPatients...
Texting or calling a friend is one of the easiest ways to maintain your relationship with them, no matter whatβs being said. Itβs a way of showing them that you care and want to hear how they are doing.
As a practice, itβs obviously not efficient to have a phone conversation with each of your cosmetic patients but communicating with them somehow will show them that they mean something to you.
Regardless of the mode of communication (in-house signage, social media, email, texting, in person) there are two important things to remember: make it meaningful and do it consistently.
Itβs the consistency that builds trust and indicates to your patients you care and are a premier practice.
Regarding marketing -
There are many marketing channels to choose from to communicate with your patients, so which one is the best?
The answer is, the one your patients pay attention to.
The challenge with that is you will run out of time, money, and energy trying to be everywhere your patients are.
So itβs best to use a strategic marketing plan that incorporates all main channels such as email, text, social media, your website and in-house signage.
So where does discounting fit in?
My answer is, it doesnβt.
It's time to Change Your Message Away from Discounting.
When you do communicate with your patients, what do you normally say? Because you want more business now, itβs common to announce special offers to get a response.
But when you continue to lead with special offers, the response dwindles because your patients know they can βget a dealβ anytime.
Discounting your services is a race to the bottom. It hurts your brand, attracts price-shoppers, and eats up your profits.
A better approach is to offer patients something of value that doesnβt hurt your profits but makes them feel acknowledged and appreciated.
And thatβs where a proven loyalty program comes in.
Since the cost of getting a new patient is 7X more than keeping an existing patient, nurturing existing patients with a loyalty program is a powerful strategy that grows your practice revenues.
To ensure the best results, choose a loyalty program that includes the following features:
Exclusivity β Patients can only get rewards from YOU. This locks out your competitors by putting golden handcuffs on your loyal patients.
Itβs got to be Easy so patients understand the rules and staff can easily use it and...
It has to be Fun β Patients love getting to the next tier while growing your practice for you
The marketing has to Done-for-You β This saves you time and ensures consistent communication with your existing patients and lastly,
The reporting has to show detailed monthly stats of your results and profits
So, in Conclusion..
- There are three foundational elements to a successful cosmetic patient retention strategy: creating and establishing relationships, a WOW patient experience, and consistent communication.
- Cosmetic patient retention efforts, as discussed in my Cosmetic Patient Retention Guide, can be maximized by using multichannel campaigns: email, text, social media, signage and in-person.
- The right loyalty program, executed consistently, can 10X revenues while decreasing
advertising costs and eliminating discounting.
46% of patients spend more after they join a loyalty program.
83% of patients say a loyalty program will keep them coming back,
I want to introduce you to the KiSS Loyalty Club that is the key to building meaningful relationships that go beyond the practice transaction.
Itβs done for you software and marketing solution that includes multichannel marketing which is the best way to achieve retention, by providing cosmetic patients with a consistent and friendly way to connect with practices on a regular basis.
The KiSS Loyalty Club practices we work with have found tremendous success in increasing their # of visits, revenues, new patients, retention, referrals, reviews, social proof and social media and, as a result, the overall lifetime value of their patients.
It also provides practices with a tremendous opportunity to build their brand, increase cosmetic patient satisfaction, and distinguish themselves in an increasingly competitive market.
If your practice wants to cut through the marketing and advertising noise that is being thrown at consumers every day, letβs talk to see if you are a good fit for the KiSS Loyalty club.
My team handles all of the design, copy, technology, strategy, props, training, support and reporting since we have tested it and know what it takes to be successful.
Your practice can see a 10X increase in cosmetic revenues and patient lifetime value with the KiSS Club developing lasting relationships with your existing patientsβ¦on autopilot.
Go to www.KissLoyaltyClub.com to schedule a demo today.
Click HERE to download my Cosmetic Patient Retention Guide for 2022!
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
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Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
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#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Hello,
Iβm sure you are [painfully] aware that itβs no longer enough to be an excellent surgeon in order to be successful. Thatβs a given.
Itβs just as important to gain other new skills as the world changes around you.
Thatβs why we talk about the business and marketing of plastic surgery on the Beauty and the Biz Podcast.
And why I interviewed P. Daniel Ward, MD.
Dr. Ward is a facial cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice with three offices throughout Utah.
Listen in as Dr. Ward talks about how he has grown his own successful cosmetic practice by:
- Bringing on key team players to free him up to do what he does best
- Managing both the surgical and non-surgical demands of his patients
- Where social media fits into his marketing plan and a whole lot more
Dr. Ward also mentioned that in 2013, Forbes reported that Salt Lake City was the vainest city in the United States! Who would have thought?!?
Visit Dr. Cole's website at https://www.wardmd.com
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Surgery, Staff and Snow with P. Daniel Ward, MD (Ep.137)
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, staff and snow with P. Daniel Ward, MD. Now I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. And I'm excited about today's guest.
It's Dr. Preston Ward. Now he's double board certified in facial plastic surgery, as well as head neck surgery. Dr. Ward lectures worldwide on his innovative techniques and serves on multiple committees for the American academy of facial plastic and reconstructive surgery. Now, Dr. Ward's in private practice with three offices in Salt Lake City, as well as Riverton, Utah, and specializes in rhinoplasties.
Revision rhinos, facelifts blephs, and cosmetic injectables as well as hair restoration. Now he has his own private surgical facilities onsite as well as medical spas to cater to his non-surgical patients. Now, prior to his career in plastic surgery, Dr. Ward studied chemistry and that prompted him to work with the leading cosmetic labs to develop his own skincare line.
That is commercially available. Through his office as well as other medical spas in the region. Dr. Ward has a lovely wife, four grown children, two adorable dogs. And from the looks of it, he loves snow skiing. So, Dr. Ward, welcome to Beauty and the Biz. It's a pleasure to have you.
Daniel Ward, MD: Well, it's great to be here and great to talk to you. I've loved listening to you over the years on the podium, and it's nice to talk to you about over zoom.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so much. So lately first of all let's talk about snow skiing just for a second. I used to snow ski a lot because I'm in Sausalito, California, and I'm only three and a half hours from lake Tahoe, which is breathtakingly gorgeous. And I just haven't had the time, like I used to. How far are you from the slope?
Daniel Ward, MD: So, I am my house is seven miles from Snowbird, so it's really close and that we have, we have we, we frequently go up north to another place in garden city, Utah, or lake Utah, which there's another place it's about 15 minutes from there. So yeah, skiing is part of what you do. If you live in salt lake.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, Dr. Ward, everybody would love to know how did you get from wherever you did after graduating after medical school and fellowship and all of that? How did you get to private practice? So, what was yourβ¦
Daniel Ward, MD: I finished my fellowship at the university of Michigan and was fortunate enough to get a position at the university of Utah, which I loved.
I ended up leaving the university of Utah though. Due to some changes I, I would have at the time when I left, I would have said, oh, it's because I'm concerned about the potential pay cuts there that they're making to our pay structure. But actually, it was a little bit more than that. It's like, I realized that for me, I really like building things.
It's not about finances, it's about building things and creating something that is kind of, I guess, bigger than, than what I am. And so that's what, why I decided to leave the university. I'm still a faculty member they're just not employed there. And I mean, there are some times when I kind of do miss the safety and security of employment, but it's so rewarding and it's so fun to be able to build something of your own, take care of your patients, the way that you want to develop the practice that you would.
To do. It's very rewarding and I could never, I'd have a really hard time going back to full employee just because it's so fun to be able to do what we want to do. And part of that is really kind of is that vision, being able to have a vision and carry that vision out for us, our niche is kind of really higher end services.
And it's about the experience. And that is something that I'm passionate about. And that kind of gets me up in the morning.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And did you start out with, I mean, you have a gorgeous place with an awful lot of staff, you know, you have quite a little empire there right now, but how did you start out? Was it the wife at the phones kind of thing?
Daniel Ward, MD: Kind of, I think we start with nine employees. We, we did to take a business loan just to help with the funding for that. We don't have any other equity partners. Which something that this as a little aside, I think that a lot of physicians, especially don't understand that that certainly, you know, borrowing money from a bank can be conceived very expensive, but borrowing money from equity partners is even more expensive.
That kind of confused me at first. So, there is nothing wrong with getting a loan from the bank, especially with interest rates, being what they are now. So, we started out pretty small. We actually had a little bit of a personal tragedy, right? As we were opening, our daughter was involved in an accident and.
The plan was for the, for my wife to help a little bit more. And we kind of had to shift gears and change that. Cause she was living at the hospital for a few months with, with our daughter. So that kind of shifted things, but we were just kind of full steam ahead, oldest. We'll just try to get this done.
And then we just kind of grew from there and I have to confess, we have made. Every mistake that I can conceive of making. And some of those have been more painful than others. But it's all about the learning and the older I get, the grayer I get, the more I understand and appreciate those learning opportunities.
And that's actually part of the fun is making those, I mean, nobody thinks making a mistake is fun, but learning from it and learning how to do it better is really is part of the fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, we can't leave it there. I was going to ask you later, but give us one big mistake that could help everybody else avoid. `If they're listening.
Daniel Ward, MD: I mean, I, I, I've got so many where, you know, which one to choose from this big menu. For me, I think it's, it's kind of a lack of an appreciation of culture of an organization, which if you read almost any business book, they're going to mention like, you know, culture is everything.
And I guess, I guess maybe the biggest mistake is maybe not realizing the culture starts with me. I, you know, I don't mean this to be like a big, big may a Copa spouting out, but, but I think, you know, if you're a business owner, most of the problems, they are all your problems, then oftentimes those problems do start with you.
And for me, it was kind of realizing that, you know, a lot of our cultural problems were problems with me. And it's not necessarily that I was a bad person or am a bad person or Purposely made mistakes, but part of us, you know, the, the surgical training, the path that we go through leads a lot of us to being, you know, kind of injured in a way.
And until you can kind of heal yourself and get yourself into a healthier state, it's hard for you to kind of be that sort of leader that you need to be, where you can kind of set that culture. At least it was for me, I think a lot of people are naturally gifted at that. That's not one of the things that I was, and, and that has been a huge change is.
Kay is realizing that that the business is going to run more efficiently. It's going to be more profitable. It's going to be more enjoyable for everybody. If I, you know, in a way kind of step back and take a little time to be selfish and take care of myself so that I'm in a better place and I can make better decisions and be a better leader for our organization.
So, I guess to summarize all that, it would be the biggest mistake is, is kind of not realizing that the problem starts with me and I need to fix me before I can expect to fix the other things that are going on in our business.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'll tell you, after hanging around with you surgeons for 22 years now what I have learned is there's been such a mind shift that you have to make, because for whatever 14 years, you had to become a surgeon.
Now you have to become a leader and a manager, not even a manager, if you're a good leader, you find somebody to manage for you, but it all arrows point to you. And that's the good news. And yeah. You know. Yeah. If you can, if you can step up to that everyone's looking to you and you're the role model and there's no more hiding in the surgery surgical suite, you know, you've got to show up and tell the staff, what, what do you want?
You know, what is your vision? What is your mission? Where are we going with this? I've just found that the clearer you get about all of that and tell your staff that's how the culture is developed. You know? Okay. Team here's where we're going. Just like in sports.
Daniel Ward, MD: It relates to. So, when I was, I did my residency and fellowship at the university of Michigan, and I had several friends there who were getting graduate degrees and they have a really big organizational behavior program.
And I have to confess, I've told this to them that I used to kind of be a little judgmental about their career choice. That is like the softest easiest field. Like, what are you talking like? That is the, I, this is all going on in my head. You know? Like, why are, why are these guys doing this that, you know, do something real like chemistry or, you know, I mean, that's kind of the judgmental side of me, I guess.
And now what I realize, you know, whatever 15, 20 years later is that those guys are actually the smart people. Cause they realized early on that. How important it is to kind of make an organizational, you know, that it's really difficult to get an organization to behave the way that is going to make it profitable and healthy.
And so, I've had to kind of, you know, go back and eat Crow a little bit about my, my judgmental state about that kiss that is so important. And it's those softer that, you know, quote unquote software things are actually the really difficult things to get. Right. And the older I get, the more I realize how important.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And that's why I have this podcast because it's the business side of surgery. If you don't get that, then you probably shouldn't be in, in retail medicine because this is the fun side of medicine. Nobody needs to see you. They're going to hand you a credit card, not insurance card, unless you get the business side of this down.
Well, I guess you stay in reconstructive or you work in a hospital and let them handle the business side. But I'm talking about that are still doing reconstructive or where's your percentages.
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah. So, I love to do reconstructive stuff still. And so, we, yes, we, we still take insurance which from a financial standpoint, you know, from a professional fee standpoint is, is not as good as cosmetic from a facility fee side.
It's actually very good. So financially it makes sense for us, but also from a satisfaction standard. Is this such a big part of my training and my background of my initial interest in, in rhinos in plastic surgery was reconstruction. So, I definitely enjoy doing that and don't anticipate ever kind of stopping that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And then you have just an athlete, gorgeous office and a few of your own surgical facilities. Give us a few of the pros and cons of that because that's no easy feat, number one, getting approved. If, you know, especially if you're doing a reconstructive, I guess you, you need a, you know, quite a or whatever on a bit about doing that because so many surgeons say to me, when is it time for me to get my own surgical suite?
Like what's, what's. And what's the downside.
Daniel Ward, MD: Sure. So, I did it initially for, cause I wanted it to be convenient for me. Like I wanted a place, this to operate where I was seeing patients. I could see patients there. But it's, it, it, it really is from a business standpoint, it is a clear no-brainer. If you are doing any sort of insurance cases, To try to, to bring those to your surgical center.
So, the pros are, it can be very financially beneficial. The downside is that it's a heck of a lot of work to, to follow all the rules. We actually just had our Medicare accreditation survey this week. So, you know, surprise visit. And thankfully we were, we passed with flying colors. We felt really good about that.
I ended up to, to, to help with that process. Actually, I took the course to become a surveyor. So, I feel like I understand the rules better and can, can make sure that we're living them as well as following them. So, yeah, I would say that the pros are financial benefit. The downsides are, it's a pain in the neck.
And you know, part of it is the accreditation, but I would say the accreditation is the easy part. The hard part is actually just having the extra staff to look after, you know, because you're not, we're not big enough that we can hire like five scrub techs and 12 nurses and you know, all these different people to help.
So, if one person's out. You know, somebody who's got COVID or somebody's sick or whatever. What do we do? You know, how do we cancel two weeks to surgeries or, you know, how do we manage that? So, it's really been an effort to try to, to get people cross trained. I think we're finally at a point that we are just getting to where we feel a little bit more comfortable with that.
Next week. There are probably some, be some other wrench thrown into our plans, but, but it's actually just the staffing thing, the logistics of getting staffing there and making sure that things run it's, it's a lot more complicated than I think most of us as surgeons think.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, I saw a talk once at one of the meetings and it was so interesting that the guy did a survey on working with a surgical staff that you don't know versus the one that you know, really well.
And you're like the well-oiled machine versus the flunky machine and that it actually hit your bottom line pretty like 5% or so of revenues was due to just being more efficient about it. And another thought somebody had mentioned an app and I haven't checked it out, but there's this app for the exact reason you're talking about with someone's out, we're kind of screwed and you go on and say, I needed a scrub tech boom.
And it's like an Uber for a hospital staff or surgical staff. I think that's amazing because it happens all the time. And what do you do?
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah, what do you do? But no, you're right. And I think, you know, there's, there's certainly some quantifiable financial things that can happen by, you know, by having your own staff and stuff like that.
You know, like you said, the 5% number. But the other thing is it's your own peace of mind? I mean, I remember actually one of the straws that broke my camel's back at the university was I was used to operating. A certain operating room and due to staffing she's. Now that I understand them a lot better, now that I have my own, but due to staffing issues, the Orr administration moved me from this out nice little outpatient surgical center.
That's pretty small that they're kind of already knew my preferences to the big cancer center, which I, which I operate at. But, but now with like, like they're not used to doing, I think it was like a face lift and a blepharoplasty that they moved me to. It was really stressful for me. Cause I, you know, I, I was working with an assistant who wasn't used to working with me.
They didn't have all the instruments that I was used to having. And although I don't think that it affected that patient's results. It's certainly affected me. And I probably have a few more gray hairs here because of that and those little things that. The again, the older I get, the more I realize you needed.
We need to take steps to make our life easier, happier, less stressful. And as for me, anyway, maybe I'm just a little picky, but moving from a little tiny out-patient or to the big or where they weren't used to using, it was really stressful to me. And I just didn't want to have that anymore.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you and not, and no more commuting. I Do the older I get the easier on getting, I'm going to simplify my life. Period. You know, I'm going to get rid of the hassles as every day. I'm just not going to help because you get older and you just, you want life easier.
Daniel Ward, MD: It can't be this difficult while you can. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I regarding the surgical suite though, a lot of doctors say to me, so do I like, how big do I go with this?
Do I just. Or sweet, a small sweet just for myself. Do I grow a two or three or sweet where I have other surgeons come in? You have any tips on how you handle that? Or?
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah, I mean, I think if you've got a group of people that are, that are there that, that can, that are committed to operating the.
Then, you know, two or three rooms at the max is probably what I would do, but there is nothing wrong with one or two rooms. And if you look at the utilization of most operating rooms, you know, I remember at the university the utilization of the operating rooms, which seemed super busy was still only about 80%.
Like one room. You can be very creative with scheduling know, so you can do block time with like half day blocks. So, you can even do like four- or five-hour blocks where you start at say maybe even as early as 5:00 AM go, you know, go to like five to 10. 10 to three, three to eight. And sometimes that's easier to, to get staffing that was so being a little creative, like you don't have to do things the way that the big hospitals have done them forever.
And that's one of the real advantages about being small. As you can be nimble to make changes the way that are going to fit your schedule. The best. I will say this though. It is. I hate to pick on my own profession, but we, as physicians are really difficult in terms of understanding business principles.
I bet you, you know, better than I do. It is really tough. Like there are physicians will shoot themselves. It's what's the saying? Cut off your nose to spite your face or something. Like, I can't really exactly say, but they will do it. And if they, there, there's almost like this, like profit is kind of like a dirty word in medicine.
And if, if, if other surgeons feel that you, as, as someone who has a financial stake in an operating room stands to benefit from. From there using the operating room that is almost a stronger motivator than them, but they may not be really happy that the big healthcare system in your area is making money off of them going there.
But there are a lot happier to give that money to the healthcare system, that to you as an individual physician. And so, it can be really difficult to, to do that. So, I, I guess I. The word of warning, there is nice to say that is I would set up some sort of system in place where they really are tied to the, or before you invest $300,000 into building out a three room or, and you're, you know, you've got these verbal promises from these other surgeons that they're going to come and operate there.
I would Get something to make sure that they're going to go there, whether you're financially tying them in or, or, or they're actually partners somehow in it, because otherwise you could be out a whole bunch of money and they're still taking their cases together hospital, which is tough to swallow.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've seen that so often I; they say one thing they do in. The surgeon is 10 million in and trying to figure out how is he going to get this thing to operate. And I'm, you're absolutely right. You've got to get some commitment ahead of time. But also, don't just don't count. Surgeons do not work well together, period.
I've even seen offices where you know, they're all ophthalmologists and there's one cosmetic facial plastic surgeon, and they don't even help him, you know, and they all can profit from it. So, I, I, I would say Golightly, you know, I would. You could always grow down the road. Speaking of growing and scaling, because I think you have a nice little entrepreneurial mindset going there.
You're very good at taking what you have and making the most of it. I'm watching you as you've grown the med spas. You've added another facial plastic surgeon. You've added a PA. How are you? What's your game plan?
Daniel Ward, MD: Well, you know, that changes, you know, there's, you know, in the business world we talk, the term is pivoting, but it's kind of, you know, going down different trails or different forks.
We started off initially and had a ton of success. You know, I left the university started off and. Our growth of the med spa, the aesthetic side of things was just phenomenal. So, I I'd read this, this great book. You've probably read it before. It's called blitz scaling. It's about, it's about like, Hey, you know what you like when you scale, like the normal way to scale is to nail it and then scale it written actually by my good friend, a neighbor, Paul Holmstrom.
It's a wonderful book. Read that book first, nail it, then scale it. But before I read Paul's book, Blitz scaling and blitz scaling simply states like, Hey, listen, forget all about this traditional stuff, grow your business, grow a big, and then, you know, if you build it, they will come. And that's, that's certainly been true, but that carries with it some stress.
In the sense of your you're you've, you've got these commitments that you've now made. You're in leases for buildings, you bought equipment that you're now paying for. And You're like, geez, I don't know if I really want to support that. And we, as we grew into that, we had some success and then we had some COVID issues.
We had another issue with a wish we, we hired a plastic surgeon who just, it was not a good fit and that kind of really hurt us. And that kind of comes back to the culture. And some of that is my fault. Some of that is just, it was just a bad fit, but With this kind of blitz scaling thing. We had this, this thing with the surgeon and then we COVID came.
And so, we've decided to use this opportunity to kind of change things up a little bit and really focus on what we think our core mission is. And for us, our, our core mission we've decided is more along the, the stronger medical aesthetics realm, not. And what I mean by that is more along the. Surgical side of the spectrum and less along the day spa side of the spectrum.
So, for example, our is used to offer massage. We don't offer massage anymore. We've cleaned out most of our makeup. We used to have a huge inventory of makeup items. We still have some, but we've cleaned that out for the most part. We do offer facials, but they're kind of a little bit more aggressive facials and what you'd see otherwise, it's like, if you're going to get a facial hair, it's going to be like a hydrophobic.
It's not going to be, you know, kind of like the touchy feely, sort of one. And we've got partners that we are working with to, to try to cause we think those services are, are obviously still valuable, but that is not our niche. You know, like we can't be everything to everybody. So, if part of this is our, our pivot has been a little bit on focus and what we're currently doing is something I'm really excited about is we are trying to create some mechanisms where we can partner with entrepreneurial aesthetic.
Providers. So, whether those are estheticians, whether they are injectors, where we will offer the space, we will offer the medical directorship, we'll offer the supplies for a fee that's a lot more affordable for these aesthetics providers, where they can partner with us to provide these services that we don't think that we are necessarily wanting to focus on primarily.
And then we're going. Allow them to do that. And that we that's really satisfying to us because it allows us to focus on our real passion within aesthetics, which has that kind of like more surgical, heavier duty aesthetics thing. It also allows us to focus on sharing our passion for entrepreneurship and helping other people grow the businesses that they want to grow.
And so, we're very excited about that. We're going to offer that in at least one of our locations. We've started it in one location and probably in another one, but we'll see how that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love that idea. See, I knew you were entrepreneurial. I would just a heads up on the person that you choose. I have watched other practices try to control that person.
And one of the issues is here's the good part. Typically, they've been humbled. They tried to run this on their own and they're like, I give up, I don't want to manage anybody. I want to reject, you know, that's all they want to do. So, it's a perfect solution for them. However, when it comes time to marketing or branding, now, all of a sudden, it's.
And you're not in the picture or like, who are they to you? You know? And it just, it confusing to the patients. But I would also say the goal is all arrows still lead to surgery. So, if somebody is in their office and they're getting injectables, I would have in-house signage around. I would have your work going off, you know, like on digital photo frames because everything goes to surgical after a while.
So anyway, I think it's a fabulous idea though. But now do you manage and give me some staff tips on managing, because I would say. Surgeons tell me, I would say that's their probably number one complaint is to start staff business. You know, how to manage people, how to motivate them how to stop being blindsided by them.
You know, how to stop the embezzlement all of that. Do you have, I'm sure you have some of your own horror stories or some really good tips on what have you done to get a really good team surrounding you.
Daniel Ward, MD: Yes. I, when I talked to surgeons, you know, there's a couple of little chat groups that I'm part of that we, you know, complain to each other and then this or that.
And that is that's, that's the majority of what, of what it is, unfortunately, because what we're really passionate about is going to kind of our craft and learning that. It's going to sad. We've spent so much time talking about, about this. The first thing I would say is what I already said is start with you realize, you know, it takes quite a bit of humility and you know, spending time really thinking about ways that, that you're actually the cause of the problem.
And that's that, like I said, it's, it's very humbling to go through that, but it's really inspiring to, to learn that you can overcome that and become better. And so, I really liked that. The other thing that I think is that so many of the tasks that we do in business as physicians, if, if they're, if they're like me, we think like, oh, I can just do that.
I can, I can put that into QuickBooks. I can, I can just do the HR paperwork. I don't want to say. Whatever $2,000 a month on this or that just spend the money. It is so worth it because those tasks build up and you don't have, you really just don't have time to do it. And it takes you away from the things that you love the most, whether that's surgery, whether that's your family, friends, skiing, you know, whatever it might be.
So didn't spend the money to do that. And so that, that would be, you know, kind of the simple solution as we've, we've hired an HR. That handles all of our you know, like the employment issue. Like they verify that they're eligible to work. They verify that we do like random drug testing. They, they make sure that that's handled, you know, all those sorts of things.
They handle that if there is ever an employee issue, which there always will be because people are people, you know and that's not necessarily anything wrong. And whether there issues, it's not like that person is a bad person. That's just a misunderstanding. So, I'm having them to help with that. And having them act as a mediator really helps where they can kind of help us better understand.
And I remove a lot of the emotions cause so many things with employees comes with emotion, both on, on your side as a business owner and on their side. And so, it's only fair to kind of have somebody to help. The other thing that is really key for me is getting the right support staff in terms of leadership in position, I think is physical.
And I'll speak for myself, but I think I'm probably like a lot of people we think that we can do it at all. And I know that I can't do it all. You know, we have got a couple of, well, we've got four or five really amazing leaders. I'm going to mention a couple of them, Matt Walker, who is like our operations administrator.
And he, he is just incredible in terms of how he can interpret data and then apply that to the clinical setting to make it work better. He he's good. Understanding the vision and how to integrate that into the practice. He works very closely with the CJ Terremoto. Who's a nursing director and operations And he, doesn't the same thing, you know, really good at this, the simple things like how do we get the exam room?
Why can't I, you know, I'd be really frustrated with this. And here's an example of bad behavior on my part at the end of the day or, or three-fourths through the day I look and I see like, oh my gosh, like this, the drawer in the exam room, I need to examine this patient is empty. I know for sure that we've got like a hundred of these instruments, where are they all?
Why don't we stock them last night? I like my way of dealing with that is like to complain to everybody. Right? And then they, then they feel, but I make them feel bad unintentionally, but I make them feel bad. They're not very effective at their job. They're not motivated to do it. Whereas if I just tell CJ about it, he deals with it in a much more constructive way that doesn't make people feel like, like they're, you know, down or not doing a good job.
Whether it's time or personality. I just don't seem to have that skillset as naturally as what others do. Another really great leader that we have is Jared long Hearst, who is a phenomenal leader. He's actually got a marketing background, but the thing that Jared. Thrives on is, is culture and helping people understand what we're part of and what we're working towards.
And he's good at helping people feel good about that and helping them feel fulfilled at their job. That's what we say. We tell people, our staff, we want you to wake up in the morning, excited to go to. Realizing it is called work. It's not called play pick. You're going to go to work and you're going to feel inspired.
You're going to feel like you're productive at work. And then you're going to leave, go home to your family and feel fulfilled at the end of the day. And Jared, really, you know, by working with Matt, he really does a good job with that. And then we've got an amazing sales manager. Who's M J. Chase road.
She does a wonderful job. And then our marketing director is Bree, who just really helps. And they all understand our vision and they all integrate it. They understand the complaints go up, not, not, not down, definitely, but definitely not even sideways. They always go up and that we work on, on fixing them.
And that's been a really big change for us. So that's getting those people in place that can do the job better because here's what used to happen is that I'd be walking from my office to the, or, and they'd say, Hey, Dr. Ward. So, is it okay if we? Do this or do that. And I, you know, I spat off some answer off the top of my head without really thinking it through.
Just wanted to cross it off my to-do list. And it's ends up not being the right decision. So having those questions go to Matt who have those questions go to Jared has really changed things because I just need to focus on what I do. And my job really is to do the surgery and to provide that vision. And that's what, that's what we try to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I hope everybody's hearing you. That's exactly how you run a business. You do what you're good at. You set the vision and the tone and the, you know, how we're going to act here, but we're going to roll and then you hire your C-suite. So, you hired the right people.
You have your COO and your CML and all of those people. And. Are the mediator between you and the staff and the public, because everyone's got a love, you, you can't be that tiring anymore in today's world. They, they have to like, everybody's got to like you, you know, and so for you to be the bad guy, that's not the way to go.
You have a whole team that's around you that handles all that for you. And then you focus. I've seen so many times where the. It is I'm attacked in the hallway and he's making these decisions on the fly and sure enough, it either goes very sideways, but then the staff says, well, you told me I couldn't, or you're like, what are you talking about?
I mean, I don't even remember this discussion. And so, you know, you just can't win with all of that. So
Daniel Ward, MD: before that, cause that's exactly what they would say about me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I was going to ask you about the services you are offering, because I was surprised that you were offering massage and a makeup counter.
I, that kind of threw me off because I thought, I don't think you can win this game, being everything to everybody anymore. And there's so much PNL each of your profit centers and I'm sure that's what you did. You looked at that. What's the, what's the hassle in this, the time involved, the staff involved, is it worth it?
Daniel Ward, MD: And I'm assuming that's exactly right. And, and again, that takes somebody like Matt going through the numbers, looking through it and say like, Hey, listen, you know, We've got all this stuff and it's, you know, it's not necessarily losing money. It's certainly making money, but I'll tell you what it's, it's, it's actually start directly making money or losing money, but it's indirectly losing money because we're doing inventory on this every month or we're having to restock it or, you know, this to that, is it, is it really worth it?
And, and you're right. You can't be everything to everybody.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I think it can be a distraction too, because people forget to look at the opportunity costs of not doing something or doing something. The more you're focused on this piddly stuff, the less you're focused on the bigger ticket items or the bigger profit centers.
And so, you know, I'm so glad somebody looked at those numbers because I have not seen that work out well in pretty much anything. However, I would actually backtrack back to that plastic surgeon. I have seen that work remarkably well. When there's a very big boundary neck up is you neck down is a plastic surgeon, like, you know, very thick lines there.
And when you get the right one. I think it's a no brainer because I'm, I'm that cosmetic patient who needs, who needs everything. So, I will keep coming back. I'm not dying to go shop around if I love a place and I go there for my injectables and my facelift. And then I go back to the light bulb. I'm an elbow up and down this thing for decades.
So, I liked that, you know, I would take a look at that because I think you, maybe you just had the wrong fit. But it's it that works better than anything I've ever seen where you had to have the same two facial plastics, two plastic surgeons. I just think they're, you know, one plastic or one facial, one body seems anyway, that would be my two sentences.
Daniel Ward, MD: That's excellent advice.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, let's talk about marketing. It's pretty darn competitive everywhere, but I'm assuming Utah's no different than anywhere else. How, how is how competitive is.
Daniel Ward, MD: Well, in 2013, I think it was Forbes named Utah, the vainest state in the union, or maybe a salt lake city, the Bain city in the union, which, I mean, Utah's a pretty conservative place overall.
So, they're a little surprised they, they base that based on Per capita plastic surgeons. There are more surgeons, plastic surgeons per capita than anywhere else in the country. It's a really interesting place. It's almost like a combination between Texas and California. In the sense of, you know, like each of those has maybe like a more familiar sort of stereotype associated with it, but it's kind of like so it is pretty competitive.
Utah is growing pretty rapidly, which I think has been nice for us. I think with the last census numbers percentage twice, it was the biggest percentage growth of any state. So, it, it is rapidly expanding in terms of marketing. I mean, it's. No. I think marketing is just a part of what we all do and trying to figure out how to, how to use that spend wisely is what a lot of us as surgeons try to do. Our marketing, go ahead.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What marketing channels are working best?
Daniel Ward, MD: So social media works the best for us. I have a love, hate relationship with social media. Sometimes I'm really into it. And I think it's fun. Sometimes it just seems like a terrible burden. For me, it's been I have, I tried to make our marketing about education.
And so, we try to do marketing based on education and, and sometimes that's, it that's, that can be a little bit difficult in the sense. You look at your numbers. I spend, you know, 30 minutes putting together some posts where I explain like what I did to the cartilage of the nose and how we would take the rib graft or did this or that.
And I think it's just beautiful and really educational and it gets like no interaction. Whereas I put a picture of my dog. And the interaction is like through the room.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I think out the window of the car, adorable, I will never forget that. So that catches my attention.
Daniel Ward, MD: Beetle, I, I give a talk every few years, I'm at meetings and I'm asked to give about marketing. And one of the points that I try to make is we're all familiar with Julius Caesar. Julius Caesar, you know, became famous as the. As the general who kind of conquered Gaul or continental Europe and France.
Interestingly, there weren't any, there wasn't anybody that told his story except for him. And that's the one thing I think is really interesting is that he essentially made his name, who knows what really happened. But the only thing that the Roman people knew about was what Julius Caesar was writing back and telling them that happened.
And of course, you know, as surgeons, we want to be ethical and honest. We're not here to lie or till, till fibs, but on the other hand, there's not going to be anybody. Who's going to tell your story besides. And social media has offered such an incredible opportunity for us to be able to do that where we can tell our story.
And we can tell about the things that we like, you know, so for example, for me, my, my aesthetic, if you will, is for very natural results. I think a lot of surgeons feel that way, but I'd rather have a nose that's maybe a little bit bigger than, than others. Cause I think that looks better or You know, what, whatever it may be.
And so, who's going to tell that story except for me and social media really allows us to do that. And so that's, that's maybe the word of advice that I would give to surgeons is, is I know, I realize, I understand you hate social media. It's a pain in the neck. I was actually just part of this chat group the other day.
And somebody said, I'm so sick of Instagram. I'm done, you know, and, but that's really the only opportunity that we have to, to tell our story and tell about the, explain our vision. To, to our client base, which is kind of what we need to do. So, I think that's a huge part of marketing for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you're doing a good job. You've got like 46,000 followers, so good for you. You know why, you know why you can't dismiss social media because the patients love it. And you've got to be where the patients are. So, if you want to play the game, you've got to be on the field. And Instagram is here to stay. I'll take Instagram any day over Tik TOK.
I'm, I'm writing a blog right now. Do I need to be on Tik TOK as a surgeon? And so far, I'm going to say what it doesn't matter. I'll tell you later on, but. The it's worth the time, but the smart part is how do you figure out how to put the time in, because I know you want to do education and that, and people love that, but they love the personality side.
We women, especially, we want to know who's the man behind the mask, you know, who is, who is this surgeon? Is he, who is he? Does he like maybe not dance, but you know, he likes to snow ski. He's got these dogs and hanging out the window that are adorable. He's got a lovely wife and all the kids. That's what we want.
And that's what the patients are doing there. They're literally going to Instagram, they're seeing you and going, oh, who's that? And then they're watching, watching, watching. Oh, okay. That's interesting. And then eventually get to your website or a girlfriend has mentioned you and typically they literally will almost go to social media before they're going to go to your website because for social there's still.
Looking around for, I think when they get you to their website, your website, they're a lot more serious about getting to that. You know, so I think you have to, you have to work, work it out. Do you have a support team? Do you have somebody following you around with the iPad? Do you have who's editing the videos?
How much time are you spending on this versus your team?
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah, so I, I think you're right. I think that that personality is actually one of the most important things to just before I really answer your question. W something you said kind of piqued my interest. I just did just this week, I did a little poll on an Instagram story and I said, Hey, what do you want to see more of in 2022?
And I did like educational content before and after. W personal stories or something else, I think. And by far the winner was personal stories. It's so, I mean, it's just so interesting to me, but so I think there does need to be some personality that comes through in terms of you know, who does it.
We, we do, we do have somebody that helps with marketing. Especially for example, if I'm in the bed in the middle of clinic and I, and I see a patient who, who is happy to talk about their experience, I can say. Just have her go in and she just talks to the patient and, you know, finds out what kind of, what we can do.
We do a pretty good job of trying to ask patients if we can use their before and afters, because you know where I do face. It's not like it's a, you know, an abdomen or whatever. That's not recognized. It's you? Your face is you. So, we try to be very thoughtful about that. You can always worry about their identity being out there, not, not using it.
So, we are usually pretty open to just about asking them. Ideally, I mean, we're, we're in the middle of kind of a change right now. We had a really great social media manager who ended up leaving But we're trying to get, get one for each of our accounts, one for the skincare account, one for the, for the Durham spas.
And then one for me itself where we have someone who's, who's taking the video, who's getting the content, but it really does have to be with the search. I'm sorry to say what we're trying to answer for, you know, all your listeners and said. Hey, you guys can just hire somebody and pay them. They'll take care of it.
They just can't cause it, cause they're not you. And so even though I don't necessarily answer all the comments or the, you know, do the likes or whatever that really does need to, we, we try to do it in my voice so that it is captured as my personality.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have a way of collecting the data? Do you have any idea how much money comes out of the social media? Because one of the biggest issues is how do you track this? How do you know that you're spending this time wisely? Is it really, is it really creating new surgeries or new patients? Do you know?
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah. I mean, without question, it is probably about, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it probably about 50% of our patients are from social media.
And I do think there is something, you know, I used to would have maybe thought this was I don't know, it's kind of nonsense, but there really is like the older I get, the more I realize that there definitely is a different aesthetic between surgeons, especially with the. You know, so for example, the nose that I do has a particular look to it.
And I, and I see some other general surgeons around that. I see their, their noses and they have a particular look to it. And people see that on, on social media and they share it and they talk about it. And so, we, about 40% of our patients are in state the restaurant. And it's because they, they see it on social media.
So that really is that that megaphone of social media allows you to now reach across the state lines. Whereas before, you know, it was just like, you can put up a billboard and there's 5 million people who drive by it every day, but who knows how many people are actually interested in, in getting a rhinoplasty?
Catherine Maley, MBA: Have you also noticed the patient demographics changing? I'm it seems like they're getting younger. What do you think?
Daniel Ward, MD: For noses? No, that, that hasn't been my experience. I I've actually seen an interesting trend. I don't know if it's coincidence or, or what, but, but there seems to be people who, you know, like in their like fifties, sixties who met, you kind of think like, well, if their nose bothered them, they would come in and get it done before then, like, oh yeah.
This bumps always bothered me. I'm retired. Decided to get it done, but the actual reverse has happened with facial rejuvenation, where I am seeing more and more younger patients coming in, you know, people in their thirties or forties who I would have just turned away before. Who are wanting something done for facial rejuvenation?
I think it's just because they now recognize that there is some power to, you know, filler, jawline, reshaping, that sort of thing. And with and they, but they do realize that eventually there's only so much that they can. And, you know, before, if you keep adding filler to your cheeks, you've got this big wide face that nobody likes.
And so, they maybe want like some facial contouring, which for me, my, my, my facial competent technique is buckle fat removal, facial liposuction, really to start to make the cheekbones stand out more the jaw line, stand out more. And with that, the As a result there's patients who are, who are seeking that.
And, but then there's also patients who are just very excited about, they just actually just want like a mini lift or a face lift, even though there, you know, 36 or whatever, they realize that if I just reposition this tissue up here, It's going to look better and there, they don't want to wait until they're 72 years old and they're all wrinkly to do it where there's a big change.
They want to maintain that look so knows. I've actually seen a little bit of an increase in the age, but facial rejuvenation and the opposite, the younger
Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm actually one of those nose patients. I didn't even, my nose never bothered me ever. And I think it's because of the mope was on the side. And I don't look at my side on my early fifties and actually a plastic surgeon, friend of mine.
You don't need a facelift; you need a noise job. And I thought, how dare you? And sure enough, I had a no shop done, like, you know, the next month. And I love it. It softened my whole look, but who knew, you know, I completely agree the nose, the rhinoplasties or, you know, the aging nose. Maybe we should call it the aging nose and.
All right. So, let's talk about how you're collecting reviews. You're doing a very good job with reviews. I'll tell you what you're doing, all the right things. You're whatever you're doing with the reviews and you have a photo room. So, you, you know, before and after photos are essential, we women, we, people, we patients love to see the results of other people on photo room. How are you doing?
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah. So yeah. So first of all, it's the photo room. I am a big pet peeve of mine is we, you know, we've spent a lot of time talking about social media is social media. I think patients don't realize how manipulating, how manipulative the photos can be. You know, changing the angle, changing the head.
It's just a little bit changing the lighting. I mean, I can, I can, I can give somebody a facelift just with lighting and head position. And that's a pet peeve of mine. That is, I think it's just not ethical and not honest, if you don't do it. Proper. So, we have a photographer who, I mean, he is a real photographer.
He's, you know, he's not here, he's out in like the mountains capturing these amazing photos. He's, he's really incredible. But in terms of the reviews, we do a couple of things. Number one is it's really cheap to invest in. And a lot of our EMR is already have this as part of it. A review collection thing, we can send out a text or an email to request it.
The thing that's been best for us though, is that we just get kind of staff excited, right? S and so it might be we used to, we haven't done this for a while, but we used to do something for about a year or so. We did it where they got extra. The way that we kind of provide some incentives for staff is, you know, the name of our spots form Durham spot.
So, they would get formed by. For certain things. And every month, part of their bonus to get extra form bucks was if they got, if we got a certain number of reviews, so was like a team reward, you know, and it wasn't really high. I was like, oh, if we get two reviews this month or five reviews this month, whatever the number was, then everybody gets these four bucks, which essentially a form buck allows you to buy roughly like 20 or 30 units of Botox.
So, they can just get that on that, on the business. So that, that really helped, but even more than that I just love this concept. You know, a lot of us are familiar with the research and BF Skinner who did like a lot of the psychological testing with intermittent rewards and intermittent stuff with, with rats and humans.
If we go to this, if we do this, this if I go on the beginning of a clinic day and I say, Hey, Hey team, let's in our huddle. Let's see if we can get. Let's ask a hundred percent of our patients for reviews and let's see if of those a hundred percent. And if we can get five, there's no reward. There's no incentive.
It's just like that inner, I don't know what it is, but as humans, we like that, but we need to be reminded of it. So, if we do little things like that, that has actually been the most successful thing through dynamo that reminds we haven't done that. For a few months, so we better get back on the train and start doing it again.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what I would suggest that has also worked well, rather than have it at that open thing or the entitlement thing, I would have a dry, you know, like, let's say you have this annual new patient drive and for one month or one week or whatever you focus on word-of-mouth referrals. Another time there's a drive.
Like let's say during the summer, when it's slow, you focus on. I don't know, social proof, you know, getting more before and after photos, testimonials, video testimonials then it becomes this event in your office where people are focused on it.
Daniel Ward, MD: But there also has to be a good carrot involved in that.
I love that idea because I think that it's so hard for us to maintain our focus as human beings.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I honestly, I'm not even married. I don't have children. I have no excuses. I have a dog that I keep alive and well and happy, but I don't know how everyone's doing it with all the information coming at us in today's world.
I'm trying to keep up because I love learning and growing and I am struggling to it's. It's just a fire hose, 24 7. And., I don't know how everyone's doing it. I just think it's really difficult to get somebody's attention in today's world for more than a nanosecond. And then you need it long enough for them to not only notice you, but you've got to get them to that point where they literally trust you with their face and body.
And now they're, they trust you so much. They're actually willing to call or text or email. Then they're actually willing to come in and give you money and have it done. That's there. That is a monumental task and I, I commend you for doing a good job. Well, thank you. So how did you learn the business and marketing side of plastic surgery? Because you seem to have it down?
Daniel Ward, MD: Well, I don't know if I have, if I eat ever learned this. Right. So, it's a constant process. I read a lot. I mean, I'm, I'm a huge audible fan when I'm out with the dogs when I'm working out or. That's kind of probably what I'm listening to is some book. And I, I listened to it at like three X speed.
So, I'd get through a lot fast. I think a lot of us do that. But that's probably the biggest, biggest thing for me is just like learning from the people who, like, I'm not going to reinvent the wheel. I'm just learning from what other people have already learned for
Catherine Maley, MBA: sure. Do you have a. A few tips that you would like to share.
Daniel Ward, MD: That's up level for marketing specifically, youβ¦
Catherine Maley, MBA: Mean growing a practice, growing a cosmetic practice in the world today? What's it? What's something that works well.
Daniel Ward, MD: I think for, for, for me, it is these sounds so soft that it's, it's hard for me to even say it out loud or put into words, but try to be, just be yourself and enjoy it. Because you know, so many of us get into, into medicine because we like talking to people. We enjoy being around them. We liked talking to them.
But over the years, it gets beat out of us. You know, we're, we're stressed out, we're running from patient to patient. We don't have time to talk to this one or that one, or these five patients are waiting, hurry up. We're just learning to enjoy even the patients that maybe aren't the, that you dread talking to the most, in the sense of, because maybe they're not thrilled with their result or maybe there's some, I don't, you know, whatever it might be that that's, you're kind of dreading going to that room.
But for me, if I can kind of get myself into a point where I'm excited to go in there and just talk to them as a human. And try to be at random for me, that a big part of that has been not trying to be anybody different than myself. I just go in and I'm not going to try to mislead them if they've got a result that, that I'm not thrilled about.
I'll I tell them which I think sometimes backfires because then they're like, well, is there something. My deformed, my ugly, and, you know, so you have to kind of figure out the right way to do it, but then, you know, the conference is true too. If I think they look great, I'll tell them that I think they look great.
And that's just made things so much more enjoyable to me. And it's kind of one of those things that I find that the more I enjoy doing it, the more successful and profitable it is. The other thing I will say just really quickly is One of the, one of my favorite books, which I know he's a little controversial Dave Ramsey, you know, this is like the extreme saving budgeting guy, which I don't think necessarily works for a lot of us, but by the way, but he's got this really interesting book called entree leadership is combining like entrepreneurship with leadership and.
That in that book, there's a whole bunch of great tips on how to run a business that I think is really easily digestible for lots of us as surgeons. But one of the things that he said in that book that has that I cannot get out of my head, it's that running a business is about two things. And they both start with P it's about people and profit.
If you're not profitable, you're not going to be in business for very long. And you're not going to able to take care of your people, which is the next part. The people of course, are your customers, but even more importantly, it's the people that are. Where you, where you work. So, your team members, and that's really the.
That shift for me is like, I had to learn like, okay, I'm a person too. I need to take care of myself. And then I can take care of my team members, those people. And then as a group, me and our team members, we can take care of our people who are our patients and our clients. And that's been a really huge part for me.
So those are the really quick succinct tips that I would say to grow practice. And it was people and profits are the only two things you need to worry about.
Catherine Maley, MBA: My tip is when I'm consulting, if you would please shift. Your interpretation of state. Staff are an asset to you, not a liability, not an overhead expense.
And you don't know that until you lose a really good one. And then you realize, oh crap, I should have, I should have paid more attention. I should never have let her go. If you could shift that part because I think surgeons have a tendency to think, whatever who cares. I mean, it's front desk. Well, who can I'll get another one?
I right now, it's not easy to get another one.
Daniel Ward, MD: Just like you can't just throw money at them. I think a lot of times it's mistakes that we started spending like, oh, I'll just bump up their pay and he keep bumping their pay up every time that that little thing makes them unhappy. And that helps for a while.
But it's really not about that. You know this appose guy, Tony was, was really good about talking about that. You know, there's a great book pink called drive. Like, Hey is not what drives us. It's important. Like you got to pay your people appropriately, but that is not the thing it's fulfillment at work and feeling like they're doing a good job.
And that's what I think a lot of the times we as physicians, we just like, oh, let me just write a check for this, or I'll bump up your money. And then before, you know, you're paying a hundred dollars an hour to, to every nurse that you have, and you're not going to be profitable at that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and that's old school thinking, and frankly, I'm from that world, like I'm, I'm paying you, I'm paying you to do your job, just do your job.
That's not going to fly anymore. And that's where the culture thing comes in. And, you know, honestly people want to be appreciated and acknowledged and. And I don't know what it is. I think it makes some of us feel whole honorable. Like if I acknowledge them, they're going to ask me for more money.
Or if I pat them on the head every day, it's like, really do I really have to do that? Because I came from a different work ethic. But that's, you know, you have to go with the times and adapt and it's a staff today really different than before. So. It's just another complexity to add to our list of things to do to just to wrap it up.
Can you give us one thing? That's pretty interesting about you that we don't know?
Daniel Ward, MD: Oh gosh, I'm pretty boring. One interesting thing. Gosh, Gavin, you put me on the spot here. Okay. Here's something I am, I am currently I'm wrapping up a tour of presidential biographies. So, I'm a little bit of an amateur historian with most of my reading. That's not business being spent on presidential history, which has been a really cool way to actually learn about the present.
Like it's crazy how. Last week was, or yesterday was January 6th. And You know, that was kind of a big day. There's been other days just like that, that are equally crazy when you read about it and we just don't know about it. So, it's been a kind of a cool way for me to kind of, I guess, better calm down about the present situation I'm in, in the world. That by better understanding the past.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Very nice. That's interesting. I never would have guessed that. Alright, thank you so much, Dr. Work for being on beauty and the biz. I really, really appreciate it. And how could somebody, if they wanted to get ahold of you? What, look, I know your website is ward md.com. Is there any other way to get ahold of you?
Daniel Ward, MD: Well, on Instagram @WardMD and be if you want to email me Doctor@WardMD.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I'll be watching your growth and hopefully I'll see you at another conference someday.
Daniel Ward, MD: Yeah. Right. And someday we got to get back on it. Thank you very much.
This concludes this episode of Beauty and the Biz Surgery: Staff and Snow with P. Daniel Ward, MD (Ep.137)
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and Plastic Surgery Marketing Trends for 2022.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Plastic Surgery Marketing Trends for 2022
If what youβre doing to grow your cosmetic practice is not working anymore or working as well as it used to, this podcast is for you.
The world of consumer demand, technology and marketing continues to change so it behooves you to change with it to keep up.
Thereβs a new term called βSmarketingβ which sums it up beautifully. You educate yourself and then invest in smart marketing efforts that give you better results for less cost. That means more profits for you to do what you like.
The following are (14) marketing trends for 2022, in no particular order, that build your presence and brand, while attracting more quality cosmetic patients to your practice.
SEO is Popular Again
Content Marketing
Privacy Rules Will Increase Advertising Costs by 30-80%
Social Media Platforms are Strangling Your Audience
Acquire Your Own Data!
Google AdWords (also known as PPC) will Get More Expensive for Lesser Results
User Generated Content (UGC)
Influencer Marketing
Video is Uber Popular
Personality Marketing is Hot
Texting and Messaging
Retention is the New Patient Attraction Strategy
Email Marketing Makes a Come Back
There are no more silver bullets, you must optimize for marginal gains to win
This shift in mindset and focus is how you will win in 2022 and beyond.
If you want to grow your revenues with βSmarketingβ to attract more patients without discounting, so you have more income without working harder, more free time and you never again have to worry about attracting a steady stream of cash-paying patients,
Click Here for a 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
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Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
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#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and Regrets, Guarantees & Social Media.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Regrets, Guarantees & Social Media with Harvey Cole, III, MD
I had the pleasure on interviewing Dr. Harvey βChipβ Cole, III, a Board-Certified Oculofacial plastic surgeon specializing in ophthalmology and cosmetic surgery of the eyes and face.
Dr. Cole has been in private practice in Atlanta since 1994 so heβs seen a lot and he openly shares his βChipβs Tipsβ with other surgeons when it comes to running and marketing a successful practice.
For example, he was the first to use his adorable shar pei puppy in his facelift advertising efforts that made a huge impact on his brand and popularity.
Listen in to this weekβs Beauty and the Biz episode where we talked about:
β‘ His biggest mistake early on that he still regrets
β‘ Offering a satisfaction guarantee (Yikes!)
β‘ His take on social media and a whole lot more
Visit Dr. Cole's website at www.oculusplasticsurgery.com
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
Transcript:
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to βBeauty and the Bizβ, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying as well as consultants to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now, today's special guest is Dr. Harvey βChipβ Cole, III, and he's a board-certified ocular facial plastic surgeon, specializing in ophthalmology as well as cosmetic surgery of the eyes and face. Now, Dr. Cole founded Oculus plastic surgery in 1994 in Atlanta, Georgia, and has performed more than 33,000 medical and aesthetic surgeries from infants to the elderly in his joint commission, accredited private surgical suite.
Now, his mantra is to never turn down or reconstruct a patient based on lack of financial resources, and paying it forward has always been part of his mission.
Now, Dr. Cole has coauthored over a dozen medical books, as well as his own consumer book, which we'll talk about, and he's given over 100 lectures around the world.
He's been an invited guest on Fox CNN, ABC, NBC, and βGood Day Atlantaβ, as well as several radio stations. Now, in addition to his clinical practice, Dr. Cole also founded the non-profit Face Change Foundation that helps troubled teens, and we'll also talk more about that.
Dr. Cole, welcome to beauty and the biz. It is a pleasure to have you
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Thank you so much, and, I need to apologize. I have two dogs and I hear one barking in the background. So, if you hear a little bit, I do apologize, but it just makes it a family affair.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So far so good. I can't hear them. So, the burning question is, is there a Harvey chip Cole? The fourth?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: That is an interesting question. I grew up. Where people would tease me with the name Harvey and there was Harvey, the rabbit and things like that. Now I understand through my kids that there's a Harvey on one of the you know, soap operas or something that everybody likes the name Harvey, but I didn't feel that way.
And so, when I was getting ready to name my son, my wife and I could not think of a good nickname and we didn't want to call him Harvey. So, we named him Christopher Douglas Cole, and later when he got in kindergarten, there were four curses and. So, we felt like we probably should have done the fourth.
And one other thing that was funny, I was doing plastic surgery at Vanderbilt and we were at a playground and this cute little curly hair boys running around and, and, and his name was Ivy. And we said, that's, that's really cute. And I said, is that a family name? They said, well, sort of he's the fourth. So, we call him Ivan.
And I looked at my wife and said, is it too late to change our son's name? She said you could do that with dogs, but you can't do that with kids. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: He'd be in therapy now. Yeah. So, let's talk about your practice because you've been around for a long time, you know, you started in 1994. Did you go straight into private practice or did you go through the hospital? What was your journey to get there?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Sure. I, I joined a guy that was very big in our field back in 1992 guy named Sonny McCord, Clinton McCord. And he was kind of one of the fathers of oculoplastic surgery at the time. And I joined him. He like a lot of older guys. He had been through his five divorces and he just got his real estate license and he was ready to quit.
Well then when I joined. I showed him laser and into scopic surgery. He got excited again and he remarried his wife, which was, I think his six marriage. And I could see the writing on the wall. So, I went off by myself after about two years.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Did you go into, did you go ahead and build a building or did you go so low in a small way and then built up to it?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Well, what I plan to do and what I did are two different things and that's, that's something good for some of the younger docs that might be listening. I had a plan to buy a property and build an office in surgery center. And about two days before the closing metropolitan life insurance came in and bought two buildings next to the property that I was supposed to buy and I got snubbed out.
So, then I leased the space planning to be there for three years. And here I am almost 30 years later and I've taken over the whole floor and built a surgery center and a med spa. But unfortunately, it's leased space, which is not quite as valuable as owning your own real estate.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I actually do, I love real estate on the side and I'm in syndications.
So, I invest in multifamily apartment buildings. Atlanta is the hotspot. So, you're not too late, you know, if you're -
Harvey Cole, III, MD: You're absolutely right. In fact, I am looking right now at some space that I might duplicate what I've already done and, and just, you know, have it be kind of my supergroup for 10 years from now when I slow down or retire.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Yeah. Weβll let me know, because I'm always looking for a good reason. We don't have any of those in California. So, when did you build the surgical suite part of your practice? Were you in there for a while and then built it?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, I was in, I, you know, I kind of saw the writing on the wall very early and I was fortunate in that in 1994, I built the surgery center and I moved into that office in 1992.
So, two years later and I was doing a lot of work at the hospitals and seeing kind of where things were going with insurance. And I became, I was the first joint commission accredited ambulatory surgery center in Georgia in 1994. And I've kept it up ever since then. And it's been probably the smartest business decision that I've made.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hmm. And are you doing a lot of reconstructive still or are you like, what's your percentage of customers?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, I would say right now, I'm probably about 75% cosmetic, 25% functional, but what's interesting. And this is good for, you know, some of the, the people that are developing their career and thinking about it right now is in the early days, what was so nice is it didn't matter what type of surgery I did because the reimbursed.
Was kind of poor for the surgeon if you're doing a functional case, but you got a good surgery center reimbursement. And then for cosmetic, it's just the opposite. You want to be very, very competitive, but you get paid better as a surgeon, so to speak and then your facility fee is lower. So, it really balances out to where there's no such thing as a bad case or a bad surgery, whereas people that don't have the benefit of a surgery center and they're going over to the hospital, they feel like all they want to do is cosmetic cases, which is great.
But you have to build your, your skillset and your reputation before you're able to just take the cream off the top. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, the way I see it, if you can swing it your own surgery center or at least, or suite or whatever you want I don't know if you needed Medicare. That must be a big deal in today's world to be a Medicare approved.
But if you can just do cosmetic in your own office, I know the cosmetic patient loves the privacy and the comfort. I know the doctor loves not running all over town. You're working in somebody else's environment that he can't control. So, I, if you can handle it, I sure. I really like it.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, no, I agree with you.
And I think that if a person has enough volume and their reputation to where they can have an in-office, you know, suite or, or, you know, one of the other big advantages that you have now that you didn't have 30 years ago is anesthesia has improved so much. So, there's nothing that I do that I can't do under sedation.
And, and there's certainly a lot of cases that I might do under general with an LMA. And, but that's not even general where you're putting a tube down somebody's throat. So, people get up and walk out of the operating room. So, you don't have that extended recovery that you used to have. And I also do a lot of surgery into scopic glee and with laser.
And so. I don't make a lot of the large incisions that I used to make. I mean, you know, I trained back in the day where it was, like the American Indians, where we'd make an incision from ear to ear and take the whole scalp down. I mean, I do one of those once or twice a year and that's for major trauma, but cosmetically that doesn't exist anymore.
Nobody does those big flaps and things, unless you're doing body work with breast reconstruction.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Great. I don't think the patients would tolerate that in today's world. Especially being so educated as they are on the internet when it comes to anesthesia, I think you're so right on, I do, I'm watching trends.
I'm always watching what patients like you know, where they're hurting and patients are loving the anesthesia angle. Most of us have had a general anesthesia story or a friend has had a story. I personally wake up sicker than a dog from general anesthesia. So, I personally would rather have that done local or Twilight or whatever that is.
If you can do that. I mean, I think kudos to you if you can get away from general and go that other route, I think that's what the patients want. And it's a good difference.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: No, I totally agree. And I think too, that it's important to look at everything you do from the patient's perspective. And what happens a lot, especially to surgeons is they do what they're most comfortable with.
And most surgeons would prefer not to chit chat, not to have to do all that stuff. They want their patient asleep. They weren't doing their surgery and leave, but it's a differentiator and it's, and, and you got to look at it from the patient's perspective, you know, and that's something that you taught me years ago when we first started talking is it's almost like walking in your office and imagine you're the patient.
What do you want to see? What do you want to receive? And, and that goes not only from your front reception, but it goes all the way to have insert.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yep. I can, I can vouch for that. Yeah. So, when in your practice I read somewhere that you also, well, I saw a photo of you, I think it's your partner and then a whole bunch of staff.
Well, who do you have on board? Is it a part, a business partner or is it an associate and then how many staff?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Well, you know, it's, it's very interesting. That has changed a little bit through time. So, I would say that in the early days I had about four or five people and I got, I was just too busy people waiting six, eight months to see me.
And, you know, I was scheduled a year in advance and so it's either lose them to the competitor or bring somebody in. So, I brought somebody in and we were together for about, probably about 15 years and, and we brought in a couple of other people and, and then what happens is young docs, you know, come in, but they want to be as busy and do what the senior docs are doing.
And then, you know, they get disillusioned. And so. It ended up being the two of us, which you probably saw in the picture and very tragically. He was about four years younger than me. He had a fall and fell down some steps and broke his neck and he actually died. And so, so right now I'm actually by myself and I'm looking for an associate and they're easy to find, you know, so I'm being patient and getting the right one, but I've gone from, I had as many as 30 team members at one point to now I'm back down to about five.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Isn't your life easier.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: I love it. I absolutely love it. And, and it's funny because I promised myself, I will never have 30 people again, because, you know, besides we had a killer kickball team, it's just real hard to manage 30 people.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I, I hear it all the time. The surgeon, you know, I say, so were you doing a lifestyle practice or empire building practice?
And they said, there wasn't empire building until I realized what goes into that. And now we're back to lifestyle. I don't need the headaches. Actually, I'm going to interview Ed Williams. He's got 75 staff up in upstate New York and everyone cringes when they hear that. And he just loves it. And it's his thing, but I don't know many people who are interested in managing that many people, even if you're not directly managing you.
Well, you know, at night trying to feel, feel all these people, especially with the dips and valleys that happen with this industry. Oh my gosh. Yes.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah. I completely agree. I know, I know Ed, and he's a great guy and we're very similar in that. We love people and we, and we like self-help and, and what happens is you take on these projects and, and I would have people that I was trying to help them with their marriage and their life and their career and all this.
And, and then at some point, you know, you kind of say to yourself, you know, your family should be number one on your, on your list. And if those people are taking you away from your family, then you're not doing the right thing. And, and so I have definitely regrouped and I think one of the. Few pearls of this COVID chaos are allowing people to regroup and decide, do they want to change some things in their lives and over their practice?
And this is a good time to make that transition.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure, sure. I'm speaking of that, I have noticed, I used to do a lot of HR practices. Call me a lot to find them a phone staff or a coordinator or a nurse or an MA. And I'm like, I'm not doing it right now because I can't get you results as fast as you want them.
And I am not appreciating the quality of applicants. Like I just, I don't, again, this COVID thing has really turned everything upside down. Are you feeling that in Atlanta as well? Finding good staff,
Harvey Cole, III, MD: we are, you know, we keep a file because we get a fair amount of people that, you know, ask us, you know, if we're looking and if they're good, we keep them in a file.
And so, we'll reach out to them and I also, because of the community you know, I'll see people and run into people and they're always asking. And I like to, you know, say, which is very true that I've, I've, I've never had somebody quit or leave me, but I have set a lot of people free, you know?
So, w I treat my, my team very, very good, and they do the same for me. And I've got people that have been with me 30 years, 24 years, 17 years, things like that. So, I'm very blessed from that standpoint that I have a real stable.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know you have chips tips. And do you have any first staff? Like how do you hang on?
Here's the, here's the other part to that? Sometimes somebody can be there for 30 years and that's terrific, but they wanted that to change. So sometimes it starts to become a con rather than a. And do you find that yourself
Harvey Cole, III, MD: absolutely, you know, one of my favorite examples that I give to doctors because they can all relate if they've worked in the VA system, is that, you know, it's like somebody at the VA hospital say, say a nurse that has 20 yearsβ experience.
I like to say. They have one year of growth and they repeated it for 19 more years, you know, and that's what happens sometimes with, you know, your staff. And so, it's important I think, to, to interact and have meetings and, and, you know, one of my low words it's interesting. I actually got this from Tony Robbins and I are the same age and I got kind of introduced to him way back when he had like 50 people.
And, you know, you could sit down and have dinner with them and, and, and ride a camel with them, you know? And one of his little words was can I see a constant and never-ending improvement and, and I've kind of adapted that. And so, I'm always making little changes. And if I see somebody that won't make changes and they're not willing to grow, then those are the ones I set for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. How do you motivate people? Are you kind of like a family where you go out to dinner? I know you used to have a sports team, but like, how are you, how are you keeping people engaged?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: You know, they, it changes, I would say that. There will be times where we have a group of people and they like to do activities.
And then we, we do bowling and we go to family ax throwing night. And I mean, we, we do some creative stuff. And then there's times where people say, you know, I get to see my spouse all the time and I work with these people, but we have more fun. It's a different kind of fun. And so, most of the team members prefer to go out with just us and not include the spouses.
And so that's, that's what we do. I'd say 70% of the time, but, but we always have at least two functions during the year where we include, you know, the spouses and kids, because you know, it's a lot of fun to have a, you know, say a big pool party and all the kids are there and that kind of.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So now that you've run a business for a long time, you know how to run a business, you know, not just a practice, you're very business minded.
How do you in today's world, how would you tell somebody how to scale, how to grow this thing?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, I think the, to me, the, the most important thing is, you know, everybody's used this before, but it's, it's like the riches are in the niches. So, you have to find out what your niche is and, and your niche might not be a surgical procedure.
It might be that for instance, you have an all female. Staff and you're a female surgeon and you cater to empowering women that could be your niche. So, you know, I think finding your niche helps you define yourself and your practice. And then from there, you can use that to kind of formulate your approach.
And, and when I started out, you know, I started in ophthalmology and then I did all the plastic surgery and I even did the body, you know, full general boarded in cosmetic. I, you know, at one point I was doing body liposuction, that kind of thing, but I play a lot of tennis and it was giving me tennis elbow.
And so, I would rather play tennis and to do liposuction. So, I quit doing it. And but it helped me realize that, you know, people are coming from all over to see me, you know, to repair. Say, you know, I would say probably 50% of my practice to this day is bought surgery. So, I see a lot of people that have had surgery elsewhere.
And so, our started thinking, well, it's so much easier for me. If I could see those patients before they have surgery elsewhere, they get a better result. It's, it's less baggage for me. So, then I started kind of making my niche, you know, doing, doing the eyes and face, which was kind of full circle for me because that's how I started.
So, I think the mistake that I made was not staying with my niche and just perfecting my niche. So, I would, I would, my advice to people would be. Find your niche, whether it's a procedure, it's an approach. You know, it, it might be for instance, that you do only a sedation anesthesia, and you never do generally a seizure.
That's something that I have adopted. And I do a lot of laser work, but I was involved in the early nineties, you know, with laser and endoscopic surgery. So, I've always kind of been on the, you know, no pun intended cutting edge. And but I think it's finding, finding what interests you the most. And then, and then, you know, coupling and bridging that with your niche, because if you have a niche, but you don't enjoy it, you're not going to be happy.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure, sure. I always recommend to a surgeon, if you're going to do external advertising, get super clear and focused on. The niche thing, either get focused on one group, one procedure. And, and you don't have to stick to that forever. It's for external advertising, make a name for yourself as something, and then you can always build from that internally, but to be everything to everybody, especially in today's crowded world, I just think you'll get lost in the shuffle.
Like you're called like the eye guy, you know, like that. And that had to help you transition to facelifts. W was that helpful because you stayed up in the face area?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, it was, you know, it's interesting. The one of my favorite stories and I'll, I'll go back to answering that is I was operating, you know, doing a full facial procedure on a lady.
And I, I came out to talk to her husband and he said to me, you know, I've got some heaviness up here in my upper lids and my brown aisle. Do you have somebody that you could send me to that could get that done? And, and I thought he was joking. And I said, well, you know, you know, I do that and blah, blah, blah.
And he said, he goes, well, I thought you just did faceless. And, and I didn't realize you did this stuff. And it really opened my eyes about, you always have to, you know, educate people and let them know. And, and, and what you're saying about you know, advertising and being specifically. It reminds me I'm old enough to go back to the yellow page days where you'd open up an ad for a general plastic surgeon.
And, and they had the whole alphabet in there. They, they specialize from a was acne, I think. And Z was a Z plasty for scars. And they had about 30 procedures in between. Well, people just want to get a breast augmentation. They don't want to know that you do 25 procedures. They want to know that you do really good breast augmentation.
And how do you do it? Do you do it under the breast or through the accelerator? Through the belly button, you know? And I think that. People feel like they have to give a laundry list of everything they do. And what I like to do back to your question is people might come to me for their eyes or they get referred to me.
And as I'm talking to them, I talk about harmony and balance. And, and I point out to them how, you know, even though the ayes have it and that's going to be where everybody looks well, you know, let's look at your chin and let's look at your mouth and your neck, and it's kind of a natural progression.
And so. For me, it's, it's almost a gateway because if you look at studies, they all show the top 10 things. People notice about themselves. Eyes are always number one. And if you look at the top 10 that other people notice about other people, eyes are always number one. But if you look at something like the neck for a person, it might be number four, number three on their list, but on someone else's list, looking at them, it's like number eight or number 10.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. So, what about surgical versus nonsurgical? Are you a surgeon period and you brought on injectors or in estheticians, or are you a patient for life kind of practice where you want them coming up to surgery, going down from surgery, which you're taking on?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, I would, I would say that I have transitioned and, and that's what I would suggest for most people.
When I started out, it was all about the relationship and the trust and coming to you for everything. And then if, if I didn't do it, I would recommend somebody. Now, what I've done is I only inject fillers or Botox to people that absolutely demand that I do it. And if not, I have, you know, a, a physician extender to do it because my time is better spent in the operating room.
And you know, it's very similar transition to say, OB, you know, back in the day, you know, I love when I delivered a baby and I told my wife, I wanted to be an obstetrician and she's like, no way. I'll never see you. You'll be in the middle of the night taking care of rice, baby. And, and she knows that I would because of my personality.
But if back then you would've seen eight different doctors in an OB practice. I probably would be an obstetrician today because things have changed and people are more accepting. And it's the same way. Doctors, for the most part, don't have an hour to spend doing fillers or Botox when the margins are so low, but people expect that because they go to their med spa and, and the esthetician, or the nurse does have time to spend 45 minutes with them.
So, they expect to get the time. So, if you can't give it to them, they consider you an inferior provider because you can't do it. And so, you have to look at the economics of it also, and what's going to make a person I E client feel most satisfied and they would rather have their Botox by, by a nurse injector.
This could spend an hour away.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, no, I, I agree. I what, I don't think a lot of practices realizes you're only getting some of a patient's disposable income for that. Very reason. They look at you now let's say, as a surgeon, they'll come in for a blessed, they'll come back for a face lift later, but they're going to emit spot to do the fun stuff.
Like just a little Botox thing, or they'll go to their favorite injector at another med spa. So, I just know just heads up, you know, there's always more money there. It's just, how much of it do you want to work for? You know, do you just let some of that go let the med spa take it? I don't know. You know, there's no right or wrong answer.
How competitive is it by your, by you? And by the way, is everything in Atlanta on Peachtree?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: It is so crazy. I forgot the number, but I think there's something like 74 streets named Peachtree and yeah. It's well, and of course, you know, it's called the peach state, but it's pretty hard to find it. If somebody visits you and they want a piece of peach pie, you can't find it. You know, you got to go to North Carolina to get some peach pie, but it's funny. But as far as the competition, I would say that, you know, it's interesting.
I write about this in my book. When you look at the statistics and if you look at the aesthetic society through plastic surgery and they rank all the different cities, Atlanta is typically number one for the density of plastic surgery. So, people go to California a lot, but it's all spread out and they go to New York a lot.
And so, LA New York city, maybe San Francisco, but Atlanta is always in the top one or two or three. And from my office, I could throw a baseball in here probably 20, 25 plastic surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA: So crazy. Yeah. You know what else I noticed in Atlanta, you have these very big practices with multiple plastic surgeons, all vying for the plastic surgery patients.
I just think that's, they D they are very complicated practices to consult with. You. Can't get a decision made with five egos in one room. It just doesn't happen. So, I just, what do you think about that? That business model is still very popular there. Is it there? Is it still popular there?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: A lot of it is because, you know, people grow up in that environment or they'll train with somebody like that. And they just don't think outside the box and, and it's easier to conform and get in the elevator, so to speak and just go up with your career through that box. And you know, a lot of younger people, I think are starting to realize that you don't have to go that way.
And it's so much more efficient, even if you're so low to kind of March to your own tune and use resources of the hospital consultants like yourself, you don't have to be in a big group and you're always going to be happier. I've never met a plastic surgeon that was less happy from leaving a big. You know, they complain a lot about the big group, but they never regret it when they leave you. No one.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I've never heard somebody complaining about leaving a group or a hospital, actually.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah. And you know, what, what a good friend of mine from years ago you might even know him, Steve Cohen. He's a plastic surgeon. And, and LA yeah, actually I believe he's in maybe San Diego, but, you know, we used to do cases and things in the early days in Atlanta.
And he was in a big group and I was in a group and we would compare notes and then, you know, his group ended up imploding and everybody sues each other and he just got tired of it. He moved out to California and, and he's been so low and he's never been happier and more successful than he is now. And that's, that's a typical scenario.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so true. Talking about that. What's like one big mistake you made that others could learn from because you learned from it.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah. I would say, you know, as I think about that one, that I've mentioned that if you're early on, I would try to acquire ownership of your property and your practice because it'll serve you so well.
Long-term, you know, that's, that's a big one. I would say, and this is, this is a little vague and I'll explain it, but kind of follow your gut, follow your instincts. Everybody has different approaches to who they are and the practice they want. I remember when I started out. And of course, this is in a very early nineties and, and I wanted to put in my brochure satisfaction guaranteed or something to that effect.
Because if you think about it, most people that are worth their weight, they're going to do everything they can to make a patient happy and, and everybody's human and nobody's perfect. And if you have somebody that say, say you do a, a four- or five-hour surgery and they heal and they have a little low, the size of a marble, well, you're going to do everything you can to get rid of it and help them.
You're not going to say, well, that's your fault and you shouldn't have eaten some French fries or something, you know? So, you're going to do everything you can to satisfy somebody. So why not let them know up front? That's who you are and all the attorneys and all the other doctors say, oh, you can't do that.
And that's, that's an ethical and this, that, and the other. And same thing, I've gone full circle. So now I put that out front and let everybody know, you know, I call it my love free guarantee. So basically, they, you either love it or it's free guaranteed. And you know, I don't like to challenge patients, but I've never had anybody ask me for a refund because they'd all love it because I would do everything I can for them to be happy.
And I wouldn't advise them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It's a marketing secret. I gave a talk on this on it's called risk reversal and it's built into everything we buy. We, I mean, if everyone would just think how they buy we love a hundred percent guarantee money back guarantee. Otherwise on the times you will literally have to give your money back are nil compared to what you get from it.
And I see it, the surgeons, you know what, when someone's unhappy, what do you end up doing? Anyway, you end up fixing it or giving them their money back. So why not preempt that and make it a marketing selling point? And your conversion rates will go up. I would like spring, like, are you at, I don't know if I would advertise it out loud, but I would certainly do it internally with the coordinator and saying, you know what?
We have a, we want to make you happy guarantee here. And this is how it works. It's a great idea.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah. And I think it also establishes a level of confidence and comfort. With your client, you know, for them to know that you are in it for the long haul, you'll do everything you can to be on their team. You know, everybody has bought a car and been treated like royalty, and then they go in to get something done at the service department and they won't even answer the phone.
And everybody's afraid of that with surgery. That would, if they make a mistake, what if this, what if their doctor doesn't think, blah, blah, blah. And they need to be comfortable that it's a long-term relationship. And so that, that would be one approach that I would certainly suggest to people that I would say has never hurt me, but it would have been better if I would've gone more with my instinct instead of listening to others.
And so that's something I would suggest. And then the other thing I would suggest is don't be the first guy on the block. To, to try and perform the new technology. You know, you want to be on the forefront of things, but you don't want to, you know, it, it kind of reminds me. I had a guy that used to work for me from Wisconsin, and one of the things they did, they had a bunch of lakes up there.
And every winter, you know, somebody's got to drive their truck out there on that lake because what they do is they all, you know, go on the ice and spin their trucks around and have fun. But you don't want to be the first guy to drive your truck on the lake. You know, because he showed me video pictures of people, their whole truck went under water in the lake because it wasn't ready, you know, and I compare that to technology, you know, understand it and, and, and know it's safe before you the first one to try it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's a really good point and God, that sounds so cold. I'm from Chicago and it's December right now. And I just still remember how cold that was and people would go ice fishing. And I thought, why would you do any more cold than you have to do? But I'm glad, not glad to be in California. So, I'm talking about marketing and talking about differentiating.
We must, I want to show your book. This is his consumer book called face change. It has the cutest little sharp puppy on here. And who thought of this? This you, the sharp pay and the book were so eye catching. I, I got my own book and when I got it, it actually came with a sharp. 10 bear or a withheld stuffed animal.
It was amazing. Then you have this cute, great branding. Like this was my bookmark and I still have it. I bought this book 15 years ago. And the best part you have your son doing the forward. Look at this, Chris Cole, here's his son doing the forward. And he just he's very sensitive. Like he really understood, like he really understands the patients and he loves that you help people and you transform lives.
And this book is amazing and it was a number one bestseller on Amazon, and of course, I would like to figure out how you pull that off. That's a, that's a marketing thing, but tell me how much this book has been helpful to you and how it differentiates.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Sure. You know, I would say that that, that book has really been a great validator and open doors that might not have been opened before.
And I will say that when I did it, it was a lot harder than it is to do it now. So that's a good thing for people considering writing a book, it's a whole lot easier to do it now. And it started out that, you know, because I started originally with ophthalmology, that was my first board certification.
I was very comfortable with Botox and I worked with, you know Jean Carruthers, Allister Crothers way back when in the eighties and, and doing Botox and all that. And she noticed, you know, that people weren't having as many wrinkles because her, her husband, he was using it too. And cause we used to give her for people to have movement disorders called blepharospasm.
The people used to see in the grocery store at two 30 in the morning because they didn't want to run into anybody, you know, with all these twitches and things. And so, I had a lot of experience, it was very comfortable with it. Well then when it finally got approved by the FDA, all the doctors and everybody was nervous because it's a toxin.
And how do you explain it and how do you educate patients and that kind of thing. So, I tend to have fun and joke around a lot. And I said, well, I'm just going to do an ad with my sharp pay. And I put on the ad, not everyone looks as cute with wrinkles, Botox, and it took off. Yeah, my dog and my and, and the funniest thing is I had no idea that the industry had contests and things, or I shouldn't.
Probably trademark or copyright or something because about six months, eight months later, I got this huge award in the mail and an invitation. And I won a silver medal for advertising for that ad. And I was just having fun and Nao. You look at so many ads, you see sharp pays and you see things about wrinkles and stuff.
And that all started with my ad. Just having fun. And they are great dogs and a funny story maybe we'll talk about another time. I've actually done surgery on my own dog because they get interning of their lashes called entropion. And I actually called the vet and, and wanting to get it repaired. And he said it was too complicated and all that.
And I told him what I did. And he said, well, it's a shame. You couldn't do it. And I said, well, why can't I, why don't I teach some of the vets how to do it? So., We arranged it. And I brought my dog and he had about five veterinarians there. I did one side and I kind of looked up and I could see that they were nervous.
So, I started making it even more complicated with the anatomy. And on, after I finished, I said, does anybody want to do the other side or do y'all want me to do it? And I can show you some more anatomy. And they said, no, no. Why don't you do it? So, it was great. I got free surgery on my own dog at the vet, and they got to learn how to do this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: It was really funny, but, but getting back to the book and everything, so what happened was the ad was very popular. And so, I thought I'm just going to make, make it my mascot. And so, I'm from new Orleans and had that Cajun flair. So, I decided to name the mascot Botox, and it's spelled Bea you to put a little Cajun twist.
And so, people that come in for Botox, I would give them a little puppy just for fun. And, and it caught on, and we literally have had dogs on Craigslist where people are selling the dog. And it says, Dr. Cole's famous, sharp PEI puppy for sale. And so, what we do is we buy him back and tell him we're bringing him home. Cause we want to make sure they have good care.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That is so cute because I have never forgotten. I've known you for over 15 years. I have never forgotten the Chip Cole sharpei book, stuffed animal like that.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah. And then as far as the book goes, You know, I went through some interesting times with my son where he was diagnosed bipolar.
And so, the reason I named it βFace Changeβ is obviously your face changing over time, but it's a double entendre also facing change in life. And so, I have a foundation called the βFace Change Foundationβ where I take 10% of cosmetic surgeries, and all the books and sales, and I help troubled teenagers, abused people, domestic violence, that kind of thing.
And it's a way for me to pay it forward.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, what a great idea and good for you. Good for you.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: And, and oh, my son is doing fantastic. He went on to get he's a counselor now got a degree in transpersonal psychology and he's counseling and helping, and we get to collaborate a lot together, which is really rewarding.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hmm. Now I'm, what about the other son? I understand he's working with you in the practice. Is he working in the practice or just around?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Well, both primarily around it. He used to work in the practice, but he's gotten a lot busier. He is a classic starving artist because, you know, as a, as an artist and actor, you know, you usually wear about four or five hats.
And he went and got his master's degree in fine arts and film production. And he's also a standup comedian. He's been in several commercials, like with taco bell and subway and some big ones and a. He's been in a few TV series. And so, he, I was hoping that I was advanced enough that I could skip the whole social media and internet because, you know, when I was starting out, everything was word of mouth.
Well, word of mouth has been replaced by likes. And so, you have to kind of get involved with all that. So, I have had fun getting involved in some social media with Tyler, my youngest son, and it's a way for us to collaborate, use his skills and still have that father, son bond.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I checked out your Instagram and I just know patients love to know like the behind the scenes, like, who are you?
And I know your story, like you, you married, you're not even high school, sweetheart. You married like what we would eighth grade or something when you met and you have three children, then you have five grandchildren, but I only see two Instagram with children and it just the grandchildren. Are you going to add more personality?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yes, I am. You know, it's funny. I get a lot of requests for that. And, and I told Tyler, and we're going to start having more of that because on Facebook, I used to have more family stuff and people would love it. And just the other day, I was a push in a couple of my grandsons and my wife took a picture of in the stroller.
And she said, do you realize that you had more likes from your grandkids than you did from doing a surgery video and, and it's true. People want to know who their doctor is and, and they consider you almost part of the family. And I think that's one of the. Big advantages for younger doctors are they have that medium to share that.
And they're even more comfortable with it than my age group because they grew up doing it and sharing. And so, I think that's a great way to accelerate their practice is through social media.
Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. Is there anything else you're doing right now? That's working like marketing has changed so much throughout the decades.
Is there something that used to work that doesn't any longer or that's working now that never used to be able to work or something new? Any marketing pearls?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, I would say probably the biggest one for me. When I started out, I would do a print ad in our local glossy magazine called βAtlanta Magazineβ.
Every city pretty much has one. And then I got a lot of good feedback. And then I started realizing that I was branded enough through that, that I started doing it every other month. Then I did it every three months and I didn't see any drop off by doing it once a quarter versus every month. And so, I think that's a good Pearl for people starting out that you don't have to hit it so hard with marketing, whether it be digital or print or, or even mail outs, you know, you just have to have your presence out there.
So, you're in the conversation and there's aβ¦I'm seeing a whole swing in the pendulum with marketing because now I think everybody's tired of opening emails and things that if I want to send out something like a handwritten note, it always gets looked at or newsletter because you know, now people like to look at a magazine cause they're tired of, you know, working out their thumb and scrolling through their phone.
So, I think there's going to be a resurgence of some of the magazines and things that they're used to not be.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know I'm for my own business. I do a lot more direct mail now than anything just to kind of get people's attention. There's nothing like direct mail. There's nobody in the mailbox anymore or any fun stuff anyway.
So, I take advantage of that. So, tell me, how did you learn because you're a really good businessman. How did you learn that as a surgeon? Most surgeons, you know, obviously you were in medical school and like other people like me, like I went to graduate school to get an MBA. So, I did the business side. How do you surgeons learn the business side of surgery?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: You know, I like to what I call think outside the box. When, when I give talks even to, you know, other docs, I usually will start off something to the effect of. You know, wisdom is when you learn from your own mistakes and experiences and geniuses, when you learn from the mistakes of others and that through this talk, I'm going to try to make all of y'all geniuses.
And, you know, I get a little chuckle, but, but that's a concept that I like to, to approach things and to teach people is, you know, there's so much you can learn from if you really think outside the box. And, and, and one good example for me was like Zappos. For instance, you know, Zappos was a business that was going bankrupt and somebody took over Zappos and he went in the board meeting and said, you know, we're going to start doing free shipping.
And they said, You know, we can't afford to do free shipping. We're about to go bankrupt. And he said, well, we're not only going to do free shipping. We're going to do free shipping both directions, not only to the client, but when they return them. And, and half the people were so upset, you know, they're trying to get them thrown out.
Well, look what happened to Zappos. They not only changed the industry, but they became a household name because of their service. And so, I try to see things like that in business and then learn from it and say, well, how can I adapt that to my own business and my own clients? And that's when I came up with kind of my whole love free guarantee approach, you know, is, is give people not only more than they expect, which is cliche, but.
You know, more than, than they would even perceive. And it makes it more fun for the team. And it makes it almost like a challenge, you know, when, when somebody ever complains, which is very rare, I like to tell people in the office, like I'd like to call them. And I look at it as a challenge, like how can I diffuse this person and have them understand and become their friend and, and have them go from, you know, what I call a love, hate, love relationship.
So, so everybody loves her doctor when they start, then they have a bad experience or they have even surgery becomes a hate phase. I call it the frustration phase, but they go through this, this point where. You know, I can't believe that my husband let me do this or my wife or, you know, and why did I do it with them?
And I, and, and, oh, I was so stupid and all that. And then it goes full cycle. Well, that's the endorphins and all the psychology going on. So, it's the love, hate, love stage. So, I like to get people out of that hate and hate might be, it might be dislike. It might be frustration, but there's no reason you can't have everybody finish in the love phase with you, your office and everything else.
And so, so I think about those things and I try to make it an experience because, you know, at the end of the day, You know, it's kind of like you said, you know, we made many years ago and you remember, you know, chips tips in a, in a dog or something, but that you remember an experience. You remember a feeling; you don't remember the exact conversation and that's what I try to leave people with.
And so, as I'm formulating my practice in my approach, I always think about that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great. I didn't realize we have to wrap it up. It's been, we talked a lot. So, tell, tell us something that we don't know about you already.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: I love yellow. Everything I have and everything I do. And any time somebody wants to make me smile, they give me some sunshine and yellow.
So, I have a, a yellow car, a yellow bow, a yellow motorcycle, a yellow four wheelers a yellow snowboard.
And my logo is yellow and I have yellow tennis shoes on. So, yellow is my happy color. That's my happy place.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's amazing. As a redhead, I can't wear yellow. It doesn't work for me. I'm better off in a color like blue or green, but that is amazing. You really like yellow. Okay.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, I do. And, I would say that you know, the, the next thing is, and people that know me know, but, you know, family is a really big deal to me. And so, I now have six grandsons and three kids. Everything I do revolves around my family and I'm very blessed. And a lot of that is my Southern kind of Cajun roots.
You know, certain heritage is different than others, you know, but family and food is a big deal when I grew up. And so, everything's around family and food and fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's a good logo, family, food and fun.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: There you go. Yeah. We'd have a whole list of them.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, thank you so much. Do you have any last words to say for people who are starting out or just been around for a little while? Any words of wisdom that you can give somebody? Like, somebody like you who's been there and done that?
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah. You know, I would say, and this is completely unsolicited. When you start out, you want to shortcut your success. And the best way to shortcut your success is, is a concept that's become popular. What I call masterminds and, and a mastermind is really, kind of, like I said before, the difference between, you know, wisdom and genius.
And, I think that to be able to hook up with somebody like yourself, that has a lot of experience, and has seen a lot of different changes, you really can shortcut your success. What takes some people, maybe 10 years to be successful, you can do it in two years. If you, you know, have somebody, a consultant, that can help you shortcut everything.
And so, I would suggest somebody reach out to someone like yourself, like I did in the past. That helps me catapult my success.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you for saying that. And, as a matter of fact, I walk my talk. I'm always in a mastermind, and they're typically 20 grand plus. So, I, you know, it's everything to share minds.
Otherwise, we're all stuck in our own heads and we only know what we know and nothing can expand your mind more than going at hanging around other big thinkers, going, wow. It's mind blowing. It really is.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: I agree. You might not even remember this, but one of the things that always impressed me about you is we had a relationship, you know, a long time ago, and I got some things going, and like a lot of times when you have a consultant, you get things accomplished and you get to where you're at a certain point, and then you decide, well, you know, maybe I can take it from here, kind of on my own.
And then I ran into you at a Dan Kennedy meeting. And I thought, my goodness, she walks her talk. And, after that, I reached out to you again. And you told me that you actually spent a whole day with Dan Kennedy and invested in yourself and your career. And that really shows me not only how much you walk your talk, but what you're willing to do for your clients to be a true expert.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you for that. This isn't happening by magic.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: And like any successful person, whether it be a consultant or, a doctor, you know, there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. You know, I like to say with one of my colleagues, from way back, you know, we sewed a lot of cow eyeballs to get good at what we do.
And one of my favorite sayings now is. There's only a millimeter between success and failure in my eyes because I'm a micro surgeon, and that kind of precision came from operating on a lot of steaks and cow eyeballs.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. Thank you so, so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It's nice to see you again.
Hopefully I'll see you in person someday, so yeah. Where can they learn more about you? I know your website is www.OculusPlasticSurgery.com. Your foundation is www.facechange.info. Do you have an Instagram? Maybe they could catch you on Instagram.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Yeah, my website is Oculus, like OCULUSplasticsurgery.com, not ocular. And, then the social is basically everything @DrChipCole.
Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. That's fantastic. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And we will talk soon.
Harvey Cole, III, MD: Sounds great. Thank you, Catherine.
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how the wrong hires are killing your practice.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
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The Wrong Hires are Killing Your Practice
When things are NOT going as well as you like, there is a tendency to focus on getting more patients, hoping that will solve your problems.
So you throw more money at advertising to attract new patients expecting that to fix everything.
But does it? 9 out of 10 times, you discover it is not the marketing holding you back. Or your pricing. Or the competition.
Itβs the team you have in place.
There is a chance you have the right people, but they donβt have the training to be revenue-producing rock stars.
Or, you have the wrong team member (s) that are never going to step up to the plate and be where you need them to be for you to grow to the level you expect.
Instead of addressing this personnel problem head on and dealing with it, itβs easier to hope the problem resolves itself so you ignore the warning signs because you are already too busy running your practice to open up THIS can of worms.
But now the problem starts to fester when you ignore itβ¦
There is increasing discourse with the other team members who start complaining about someone not pulling their weight;
You can feel the tension among the team members and so can your patients,
Important protocol is not being followed that could jeopardize patient care,
Your patients are complaining about the service they are getting (or not getting) or worse,
Your accountant says the numbers are suspiciously off.
These are indicators that itβs Time for a Staff Change
Awareness is the first step. No matter how much you may like someone personally, if they are not a good fit, a change needs to happen. Once you acknowledge that, you can fix it.
You can no longer ignore this issue. Itβs time to βfreeβ that bad egg on your staff so they can work somewhere else where they are a better fit.
You now have the opportunity to hire the revenue-generating rock star you have dreamed about but werenβt sure how to identify β¦..until now.
Staff salaries can consume 25%-50% of your operating costs so the goal is to get much more than that back in terms of productivity and results.
A-level talent makes the difference between a practice just getting by and an exceptional practice that stands out from the others.
So, Here are 3 ways to Hire A-Players:
1)Hire Character Backed by Skill
This is huge. Instead of hiring people and spending a ton of time and effort training them to be hard-working, loyal, passionate, team player and consistent, you hire people who are ALREADY hard-working, loyal, passionate, team-player and consistent. See the difference?
A-Players come packaged with the right mindset so you donβt spend extra time or money motivating them. They are motivated already to show up and do the job to the best of their ability.
2.Become What You Want
Come up with a list of attributes you want in a hire. Examples include: integrity, passion, discipline, self-starter, caring, results-oriented, process-driven, resourceful, pleasant demeanor and so on.
This will help you more clearly see those attributes in people who interview with you.
But hereβs the tough part β BE those attributes you want. Be the role model A-Players can look up to since you have set such a good example.
A-Players want to work for an A-Player who challenges them and gives them opportunities to grow financially as well as mentally into a better person than they are now.
3)Use The Rule of 3
Some people are very good interviewees but they underwhelm you once they are on the job. For example, they bragged how good they are with technology and with people, yet you find they struggle to open excel and end up being curt with your patients.
To avoid that, follow the rule of 3:
- Interview at least 3 different people for the job
- By 3 different people on your team
- At 3 different times of the day
The A-Player will become obvious when you compare them to others and the B and C players will show their true character with so many points of contact.
This takes longer but it saves you so much time and money down the road so itβs well worth the process.
And 4)Pay for A-Players
Just like you tell price-shopping patients they get what they pay for, we can use the same mindset here.
When you pay extra for A-Players, you know this is money well spent because these top producers end up being free since they are consistent.
These quality team players always out-produce their salary and bring you opportunities to grow with less stress, liability and hassle.
But donβt overpay on the hire. Let them prove themselves first.
I recommend you pay just a bit more than your competitors and then offer benefits, as well as add on other perks to make it even more attractive such as flexible or virtual work time, personal time off, free training, free or discounted non-sx treatments, employee discounts on skincare products, monthly fun staff events, annual bonus paid on productivity and so on.
Conclusion
If you are struggling to find great people to join your team, please reconsider your process for finding them, what you are looking for and how you pay them.
I will close this with a quote from Jack Welch, Voted one of the best CEOs of our time who ran General Electric and this is what he said:
Business is a game, and as with all games, the team that
puts the best people on the field and gets them playing
together wins. It's that simple.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and Todayβs Cosmetic Practice Growth Funnel.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Aesthetic Authority Article
Todayβs Cosmetic Practice Growth Funnel
Saying that βtimes have changedβ would be a massive understatement when referring to growing a cosmetic practice in todayβs marketplace.
To make sense of it, it helps to understand the structure and stages of an industry so you can then adapt to it. This should helpβ¦.
The Life Cycle of the Plastic Surgery Industry
Every industry goes through stages of introduction, growth, maturity and decline.
Why? For lots of reasons but the biggest one is because society and its consumers accept products & services at different rates. As society begins to adopt and accept an innovation, the demand for new services grows and eventually reaches maturity.
But a lot happens between these stages.
Introduction Stage
It used to be straight forward to grow a cosmetic practice just one generation ago.
Cosmetic surgery was still a taboo topic and only for celebrities and consumers of high worth value. The demand for cosmetic surgery was limited and so were the number of service providers.
Most of the service providers were plastic surgeons who did a lot of reconstructive surgery and wanted to spread their wings to the cash side of medicine.
Advertising was minimal and consisted of a few surgeons investing in mass advertising via TV, radio and print ads that centered on the surgeonβs status.
Prospective patients looked up to the surgeons and, most often, went with the surgeonsβ recommendations since they were regarded as the expert.
When prospective patients called the office, it was to book a consultation with the surgeon. They more often than not, showed up for their appointment and conversions were fairly straight-forward.
This worked well. There were few plastic surgeons to choose from and they enjoyed regal status.
Growth Stage
As society accepted plastic surgery more (thanks to the media who report on it and the Kardashians who partake in itβ¦a lot), consumer demand increased dramatically.
The growth in demand for cosmetic rejuvenation, coupled with exciting technological advancements, opened the industry up to an increase in consumers, but also to an increase of service providers.
You longer needed to be a board-certified plastic surgeon to offer cash-based cosmetic medicine.
Any MD could open a med spa and provide convenience and service for cash-based, non-surgical procedures that fill the need for consumers not ready for surgery.
Then, as government regulations deterred medical providers from practicing insurance-based medicine due to low reimbursement and high cost and hassle of reimbursement, that supply of cash-based service providers increased even more.
Once there is a proven consumer demand for cosmetic rejuvenation, big business and pharma also jumps in and creates more solutions for the service providers to offer to consumers.
And, all of that increases the competition dramatically.
The consumer demand continues to increase even more and includes new types of consumers (men and the younger population), as well as geographic opportunities so the future looks promising.
But all of this leads to commoditization in the aesthetic industry.
As the competition enters the market, they offer aesthetic services at lower prices.
They almost have to since they donβt enjoy status and need to enter the marketplace to attract new cosmetic patients somehow.
This creates a downward sloping demand curve that reflects the willingness of consumers to purchase more of the commodity at lower price levels.
Now, consumers have a plethora of solutions at a range of prices to choose from. This forces plastic surgeons to either lower their prices to compete or add more value to justify the higher prices.
Adding value includes creating an image and brand to position the practice in a crowded marketplace, as a high-end service provider offering better quality of results, excellent customer service, an upscale experience and so on.
Maturity Stage With so many service providers and many more manufacturers offering countless solutions to address the concerns of the cosmetic patients, the competition for new cosmetic patients becomes fierce.
Although total sales continue to grow during the first part of the maturity stage, the increased competition causes profits to peak at the end of the growth stage and beginning of the maturity stage.
Profits then decline during the remainder of the maturity stage because even though many consumers are buying, they are buying on price more often than value.
Here is the pointβ¦.In the growth stage, even inefficient practices make money. However, only the best run practices survive in the maturity stage.
Less efficient practices struggle to generate positive cash flow in an uber competitive environment because they are not able to spend enough to attract enough patients to generate positive cash flow, so they get weeded out.
Cosmetic practices have to be able to balance their advertising costs and overhead expenses to keep a steady stream of patients coming to them without going broke.
Here is the solution to survive in a maturing marketplaceβ¦
The trick to staying in the game is to leverage your assets so you get more value from the costs you already occurred. And, to become more efficient so you make more revenues using less resources.
The practices who do this best win. The weakest practices donβt because they cannot afford to operate profitably and compete at the same time on price.
How do you do that?
- Rather than compete on price, compete on friendly customer service, efficient processes, technology to save time and relationship-building.
- Invest in the best staff you can afford and train them on customer service and converting. Their quality of work, great attitude and excellent converting skills will make you money.
- Increase the value of every patient by developing a relationship with them so they return for other services, consent to their photos being taken, refer their friends and give you a 5-star review so other prospective patients also see you as the best choice.
- Turn your current patients into your unpaid sales ambassadors who grow your practice organically by sharing you with their friends and followers on social media.
All of your leverage is with your #1 asset and that is your patient list of consumers who chose you once and they will choose you again and bring their friends with them if you focus on them.
You already spent the time, money and effort in attracting them to you. They will grow your practice for you if you let themβ¦.for free.
This means you redirect some of your advertising costs to training your staff and nurturing your current patients.
So, now, you are growing internally and externally and thatβs how you survive and thrive in todayβs marketplace.
===========================
Catherine Maley, MBA is a cosmetic practice consultant, speaker, trainer, blogger and podcaster. Her popular book, Your Aesthetic Practice/What Your Patients Are Saying is read and studied by plastic surgeons and their staff all over the world.
She and her team specialize in growing plastic surgery practices using creative patient attraction, conversion, follow up and retention strategies as well as staff training to turn team members into converting rock stars.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and Todayβs Cosmetic Practice Growth Funnel.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Aesthetic Authority Article
Todayβs Cosmetic Practice Growth Funnel
Saying that βtimes have changedβ would be a massive understatement when referring to growing a cosmetic practice in todayβs marketplace.
To make sense of it, it helps to understand the structure and stages of an industry so you can then adapt to it. This should helpβ¦.
The Life Cycle of the Plastic Surgery Industry
Every industry goes through stages of introduction, growth, maturity and decline.
Why? For lots of reasons but the biggest one is because society and its consumers accept products & services at different rates. As society begins to adopt and accept an innovation, the demand for new services grows and eventually reaches maturity.
But a lot happens between these stages.
Introduction Stage
It used to be straight forward to grow a cosmetic practice just one generation ago.
Cosmetic surgery was still a taboo topic and only for celebrities and consumers of high worth value. The demand for cosmetic surgery was limited and so were the number of service providers.
Most of the service providers were plastic surgeons who did a lot of reconstructive surgery and wanted to spread their wings to the cash side of medicine.
Advertising was minimal and consisted of a few surgeons investing in mass advertising via TV, radio and print ads that centered on the surgeonβs status.
Prospective patients looked up to the surgeons and, most often, went with the surgeonsβ recommendations since they were regarded as the expert.
When prospective patients called the office, it was to book a consultation with the surgeon. They more often than not, showed up for their appointment and conversions were fairly straight-forward.
This worked well. There were few plastic surgeons to choose from and they enjoyed regal status.
Growth Stage
As society accepted plastic surgery more (thanks to the media who report on it and the Kardashians who partake in itβ¦a lot), consumer demand increased dramatically.
The growth in demand for cosmetic rejuvenation, coupled with exciting technological advancements, opened the industry up to an increase in consumers, but also to an increase of service providers.
You longer needed to be a board-certified plastic surgeon to offer cash-based cosmetic medicine.
Any MD could open a med spa and provide convenience and service for cash-based, non-surgical procedures that fill the need for consumers not ready for surgery.
Then, as government regulations deterred medical providers from practicing insurance-based medicine due to low reimbursement and high cost and hassle of reimbursement, that supply of cash-based service providers increased even more.
Once there is a proven consumer demand for cosmetic rejuvenation, big business and pharma also jumps in and creates more solutions for the service providers to offer to consumers.
And, all of that increases the competition dramatically.
The consumer demand continues to increase even more and includes new types of consumers (men and the younger population), as well as geographic opportunities so the future looks promising.
But all of this leads to commoditization in the aesthetic industry.
As the competition enters the market, they offer aesthetic services at lower prices.
They almost have to since they donβt enjoy status and need to enter the marketplace to attract new cosmetic patients somehow.
This creates a downward sloping demand curve that reflects the willingness of consumers to purchase more of the commodity at lower price levels.
Now, consumers have a plethora of solutions at a range of prices to choose from. This forces plastic surgeons to either lower their prices to compete or add more value to justify the higher prices.
Adding value includes creating an image and brand to position the practice in a crowded marketplace, as a high-end service provider offering better quality of results, excellent customer service, an upscale experience and so on.
Maturity Stage With so many service providers and many more manufacturers offering countless solutions to address the concerns of the cosmetic patients, the competition for new cosmetic patients becomes fierce.
Although total sales continue to grow during the first part of the maturity stage, the increased competition causes profits to peak at the end of the growth stage and beginning of the maturity stage.
Profits then decline during the remainder of the maturity stage because even though many consumers are buying, they are buying on price more often than value.
Here is the pointβ¦.In the growth stage, even inefficient practices make money. However, only the best run practices survive in the maturity stage.
Less efficient practices struggle to generate positive cash flow in an uber competitive environment because they are not able to spend enough to attract enough patients to generate positive cash flow, so they get weeded out.
Cosmetic practices have to be able to balance their advertising costs and overhead expenses to keep a steady stream of patients coming to them without going broke.
Here is the solution to survive in a maturing marketplaceβ¦
The trick to staying in the game is to leverage your assets so you get more value from the costs you already occurred. And, to become more efficient so you make more revenues using less resources.
The practices who do this best win. The weakest practices donβt because they cannot afford to operate profitably and compete at the same time on price.
How do you do that?
- Rather than compete on price, compete on friendly customer service, efficient processes, technology to save time and relationship-building.
- Invest in the best staff you can afford and train them on customer service and converting. Their quality of work, great attitude and excellent converting skills will make you money.
- Increase the value of every patient by developing a relationship with them so they return for other services, consent to their photos being taken, refer their friends and give you a 5-star review so other prospective patients also see you as the best choice.
- Turn your current patients into your unpaid sales ambassadors who grow your practice organically by sharing you with their friends and followers on social media.
All of your leverage is with your #1 asset and that is your patient list of consumers who chose you once and they will choose you again and bring their friends with them if you focus on them.
You already spent the time, money and effort in attracting them to you. They will grow your practice for you if you let themβ¦.for free.
This means you redirect some of your advertising costs to training your staff and nurturing your current patients.
So, now, you are growing internally and externally and thatβs how you survive and thrive in todayβs marketplace.
===========================
Catherine Maley, MBA is a cosmetic practice consultant, speaker, trainer, blogger and podcaster. Her popular book, Your Aesthetic Practice/What Your Patients Are Saying is read and studied by plastic surgeons and their staff all over the world.
She and her team specialize in growing plastic surgery practices using creative patient attraction, conversion, follow up and retention strategies as well as staff training to turn team members into converting rock stars.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at https://www.CatherineMaley.com, or DM me on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA.
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the takeaways from the top 5 podcasts of 2021.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Takeaways from the Top 5 Podcasts of 2021
Intro
This episode is called Take-a-Ways from the Top 5 Podcasts of 2021
Another year is coming to an end and so is the Beauty and the Biz podcast.
Since I do a weekly podcast, I reviewed the list of this yearβs podcasts and recapped strategies from the 5 most popular topics that you may want to consider for 2022.
And here they areβ¦drumroll pleaseβ¦
1. How to grow a selleable practice
The objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so itβs more predictable and profitable.
That way, itβs more enjoyable to go to every day, and itβs more attractive to other surgeons to buy when youβre ready to exit.
But, you have a challenge that keeps you from winning in the long run.
As a surgeon, you were programmed to think in a certain fixed way.
You had to think that way to become a great surgeon.
However, that thinking is the opposite of how a businessperson thinks.
In a cosmetic practice, you, the surgeon, are the technician of the surgery, so you focus on that because youβre good at it and thatβs what you know.
However, does that make for a sellable asset when youβre ready to retire?
Probably not, so you either have to work until youβre ready to close the doors and get nothing back for your efforts, or you can set your practice up to make a profitable exit and enjoy your retirement by using these strategies:
The first one is Mindset:
Shift your thinking from a surgeon to a businessperson and βOperate your practice like itβs for saleβ.
Then regularly ask yourself, βIf I wanted to sell my practice tomorrow, what would I need to improve to get the most value for it?β
When I interview surgeons on this Podcast and we talk about them buying another surgeonβs practice, the #1 value component they are looking for is a ready-made income stream.
Because Buyers are looking for a practiceβs ability to generate cash with a degree of predictability and certainty.
Thatβs why itβs difficult to value the surgical side of your practice.
If you have been practicing with a βone and doneβ mindset, youβre not developing much of a bond with your patients because itβs such a short-term relationship.
And, to keep your surgical side busy, you have to market and advertise to attract new surgical patients and that increases your overhead costs so other surgeons have to look at not just your revenues but also your overhead to make those revenues happen.
Other surgeons know thereβs no certainty that those surgical patients will come back for more surgery or come back soon enough or often enough.
However, if you can show a prospective buyer:
- Predictable revenues they can count on month after month that donβt include YOU
- an increase in the lifetime value of your current cosmetic patients
- And how you generate more referrals and reviews organically
- while differentiating your practice from all the others,
Thatβs interesting AND valuable.
Because now you have a predictable, systematic cosmetic revenue stream profit center that works without you and could easily be handed off to another surgeon.
You do that by building up the non-surgical aspect of your practice.
2. Hiring the Right Patient Coordinator
The difference between a 25% and 65% conversion rate is many, many thousands of dollars. It can also be the difference between a 6- or 7- or even 8-figure cosmetic practice.
Itβs a game changer when you have a patient coordinator who knows how to convert so this position cannot be taken lightly.
Converting consultations is an art and trained skill. It takes the right strategies, knowledge and then lots of practice to get good at confidently taking a βstranger prospectβ to a paying cosmetic patient.
So here are the traits a great patient coordinator must possess to ensure you have the right person representing you:
For starters, the most successful patient coordinator looks, acts, and feels the part.
So, Letβs start with looks.
This does not mean your coordinator needs to be gorgeous.
This means they need to be likeable, presentable and congruent with the high standards you set for the practice because they have to connect with the public
who will look to your coordinator as a role model for looking good and feeling confidant.
The most successful patient coordinator has the right mindset. They believe in plastic surgery. They see how much it enhances the lives of your patients.
They genuinely like working with prospective patients. They care about a prospective patient as a person and truly want to help them solve a problem they believe they have.
They are not βsellingβ. They are serving your patients. They believe they are providing a valuable service to prospective patients who need guidance.
They believe in the surgeon(s) they are representing, and they also believe in cosmetic rejuvenation as a gateway to personal self-fulfillment and happiness.
A great patient coordinator does all they can to help the prospective patient get to a yes and they persevere in the face of resistance, because they donβt see resistance as rejection. They see it as an opportunity to clear up the confusion on the patientβs side, so they get to a yes and reach their ultimate goal which is to be happy and confident with their appearance.
The most successful patient coordinator believes in themselves.
They have an inner drive to do their best. They like a challenge and they like to succeed.
They have a competitive edge so they hold themselves to a higher standard than most.
They have the confidence it takes to win in this position because they believe in you, the surgeon and the results the patient will get when they say YES.
That means theyβre not afraid to ask the patient tough questions for fear of being viewed as βpushyβ and then they professionally ask for a decision when the time is right because they want to give the patients what they want and they also want to win.
The most successful patient coordinator puts anxious prospective patients at ease so they open up and articulate what they want, why they want it and what it will take for the prospective patient to say YES.
They reassure the patient they are in the right place and will be happy with their result once they decide to move forward with you.
They have the people skills to make a prospective patient comfortable and trusting enough to make a decision to have their cosmetic procedure with you.
They know how to stay focused on the patientβs wants, fears, objections so they can artfully address the issues in the patientβs mind that are stopping them from moving forward.
This is the difference between an okay coordinator and a converting rock star.
This takes confidence, courage and well thought out strategies to convert a prospective patient to a paid surgical procedure.
3. Attract affluent patients
A common complaint I hear from plastic surgeons and their staff is their plastic surgery patients are so price-focused and ask them one thing:
βHow much is it β¦?β
Or, during their consultation, they attempt to negotiate by telling you they can get the same thing cheaper from your competitors.
So how do you respond to that?
You DECIDE you no longer want cheap cosmetic patients so you no longer cater to them.
You decide to attract a better quality patient by stepping up your game so you attract the patients who care more about your skill, expertise and reputation than they do about saving money.
Hereβs the secret:
Be, act and market as a higher-end practice does to attract affluent patients.
Details count since the patient is looking for clues to justify spending more with you than your discounting competitors. That includes the quality of:
- Your standards for how your practice is run
- Your well-orchestrated & consistent processes
- Your updated Website
- Your excellent results shown in your photo gallery
- Your social media platforms showing off your skills as a surgeon, leader, speaker, chef, etc.
- Your PR efforts and pro-bono activities
- Your receptionistβs friendly phone voice
- Your office location and furnishings
- Your positive online reviews
- Your videos on YouTube
- Your 5-star service mentality so the patient feels special throughout their experience with you and so on.
This is how to Attract Affluent Cosmetic Patients because the further up the food chain you go β the less βneeds drivenβ these patients are.
Itβs all about what they WANT to do β not what they NEED to do.
So they think differently than the cheap patients.
They are are not buying by price and value.
Itβs more about the intangibles and what this procedure means to them that is driving their decision.
Affluent patients pay more because doing so makes them feel more like the person they either wish they were or envision themselves to be.
At this level, you are hardly talking about the surgery.
Itβs the intangibles of the surgery that attracts the affluent patients to you.
The affluent patients are looking for superior service providersβ¦.even if itβs based on perception.
They believe they deserve the best, so they want the best because this group will pay a lot more to buy certainty.
So, knowing this, what makes price disappear from the equation and YOU the only choice for affluent patients?
The answer is YOU.
You stand out from the crowd by doing what others wonβt do or canβt do.
For example, Be The Expert.
The affluent patient wants to go to the BEST so specialize in one procedure.
Write a book about it.
Make YouTube videos about it.
Be interviewed explaining your unique approach to this procedure.
Do 10x more of this procedure than the average surgeon does.
Show off tons of transformational before/after photos of this procedure and encourage your patients to show off their own results on social media.
The point is after enough communication, familiarity, reinforcement and social proof, the affluent patients now have sufficient trust in you to choose you as their go-to plastic surgeon.
4. Prevent problem patients
As a cosmetic surgeon, you get all the risk when dealing with the cosmetic patient. You hope the prospective patient is hearing you when you say:
βI canβt make it perfect, but I can make it a lot better.β
The good news is most of your patients are friendly, reasonable, and realistic.
But the few patients who arenβt, can wreak havoc with your reputation and mental health.
What can trip you up are your own emotions during the consultation process. The two major ones being ego and greed.
It can be difficult to say no to prospective patients who want to give you money. Thatβs completely understandable.
Same thing with your ego. Itβs so much easier during the consultation process to ignore your gut telling you to beware than to say no.
When interviewing surgeons about problem patients, they repeatedly say, βI knew there were red flags, but I thought I could manage them.β
I suggest you and your staff come up with a Red Flags Checklist that becomes protocol so if you can check any of the boxes, you DO NOT move forward. This helps take the emotion out of it.
However, you can still end up with a post-op patient who is not happy. It happens so I suggest the following steps:
First, listen without interrupting. Sometimes itβs just a complaint the patient wants to share with you, get off their chest and move on.
Acknowledge without getting defensive. Offer a sincere apology for how they feel. Not for any wrongdoing on your part, but you are sorry they are not happy.
Ask Questions to figure out how serious the situation is.
You are looking for WHY they feel the way they do and what it is they want from you.
They may surprise you and have a simple request that would satisfy them.
And lastly, Do Something!
Make it right! Donβt just promise to make it right, actually take a proactive step in the right direction.
Offer solutions such as cortisone shots, lymphatic massage, a touch up in the office, comp your fees or discount OR fees to go back into surgery.
Then thank them for being reasonable and working with you to rectify the situation.
And lastly, #5 of the top 5 posts this year is
5. What google said about attracting plastic surgery patients
Organic reach and advertising results have decreased significantly and thatβs making it a whole lot more difficult and expensive for you to attract new patients.
And Iβm thinking, if plastic surgeons canβt market and advertise to consumers, how the heck are you supposed to grow your practice?
To find the answer for you, I did what I always do⦠I googled it and here are the 6 ways google says you should grow your practice:
-
Get more google reviews but google wants the reviews to provide useful, constructive feedback that is detailed, specific and honest.
-
Enhance your online image
Update your website, be sure itβs mobile friendly and Include social media buttons so patients get to know you better and you can show off your skill with lots of before/after photos and videos of FAQs for each procedure.
Also, add fresh, updated content to as many different platforms as possible to increase your footprint on the Internet.
- Donβt Miss Out on the Social Media Platforms
You may not understand or care about social media or you donβt want to put in the time, but itβs become a must-have patient attraction channel.
I recommend you assign a staff person or hire someone specifically to follow you around with an iphone or ipad and record you doing βthe day in the life of a plastic surgeonβ.
Your staff can then turn the footage into interesting content on different platforms.
- Positive or negativeβ¦..respond to reviews
You are bound to get some bad reviews. Itβs just the cost of doing business with consumers.
Your best approach is to respond quickly, stay professional and apologize for the situation
(not for your work) and offer to talk it over since your overall goal is patient satisfaction.
5. Train your staff
Your staff will make or break your practice so please get the right people on the bus, get them in the right seats, give them the training they need to succeed and then hold them accountable.
For example, Your receptionist must have the skills to
-
Present YOU as the BEST choice for the caller who has many options;
-
To Answer the question, βHow much is it?β so the caller can move forward to
booking the appointment; as well as to - Convert the caller to a booked appointment!
And Your coordinator must have the skills to:
Understand the patientβs true wants and needs and
How to handle a patient who wants to negotiate and
How to professionally convert a consultation to a paid procedure
These 2 pivotal points in the patient experience make up HALF of your revenues. Please be sure your staff is professionally trained to convert callers and consults.
And the 6th way to get more patients per google is to β¦.
6. Build strong relations with existing patients and Referrals will follow.
It changes everything when you have a βpatients for lifeβ mindset. When you see your patients as friends and family and treat them with respect, they grow your practice for you.
As Maya Angelo says,
βThey wonβt remember what you told them.
They wonβt remember what you showed them.
But they WILL remember how you made them feel!"
Please make your patients feel important, wanted and appreciated.
These happy patients will be your patients for decades and return for more as the aging process continues.
They will refer their family members and friends who will then refer their family members and friends and so on and so on so your practice grows organically with preferred patients you want.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
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#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to fix your follow up.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa
β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ. β¬οΈ.
Fix Your Follow Up
You know How frustrating is it to spend a ton of money, staff time and resources on internet marketing for new cosmetic patient leads only to have those very leads come in as prospective patients and leave as prospective patientsβ¦.STILL.
You can no longer afford to waste any more time or money on marketing if you are not converting these leadsβ¦.
Itβs too competitive, itβs too crowded and itβs too expensive NOT to do everything within your control to convert these Internet leads into paid procedures.
Hereβs a typical consultation scenarioβ¦
Hmmmβ¦.
You thought you had a great consultation with your prospective patient, Sara.
Sara had a good consultation with you and your staff and she asked lots of questions and you had a good connectionβ¦at least you thought you did.
But then you find out from your coordinator Sara ended up saying, βI gotta think about itβ and walked out the door.
Now what? Maybe your staff emails or calls them and then they are dropped in the βdead leadsβ file.
You move onto the next consultation that you hope converts and the cycle of waste continuesβ¦
Why Donβt Patients Book?
Since cosmetic rejuvenation is a very personal as well as emotional decision, there are all sorts of reasons why prospective patients donβt bookβ¦.
- Maybe they have other consultations lined up
- Maybe they donβt have a comfortable way to pay for it
- Maybe theyβre confused about something you said so now they will research it more before deciding to move forward
Or maybeβ¦..
- They received bad news that morning or
- They got flack from their family when they told them about meeting with you;
- Or a dozen other benign things could have happened that had nothing to do with you.
It could have had everything to do with the patientβs frame of mind at the time that prevented them from moving forward.
The point is people change, their moods change and their circumstances change so you can never assume anything.
What Do You Do When You Canβt Convert Consultations?
Letβs say you did everything right and now you are stuck because you donβt know how or even if you should follow up for fear of looking as if you are chasing the patient.
Here are 3 strategies to help you follow up professionally and close the procedure:
1 Collapse Time
Time is your enemy in the follow up process. The more time that goes by without the prospective patient hearing from you, the more distant you become.
The hottest they will ever be is when they are face-to-face with you. Once they leave your practice, you are out of sight β out of mind β unless YOU keep the conversation going.
So you want to collapse time by following up quickly, repeatedly and often. Thatβs how you differentiate yourself from your competitors who follow up weeks later (or never).
Iβm always amazed when I learn a practice sends one standard follow up email days after the consult then wait another 30-60 days. The hot lead is very cold by then so no wonder they are never heard from again.
2 Add a Sense of Urgency to Your Follow Up
Since its human nature for prospective patients to put off making a big decision and procrastinate, you want to counter with a sense of urgency to get the patient off the fence.
Give them compelling reasons to stop procrastinating. For example:
- Your schedule is filling up quickly due to the demand for Dr. Smith, SO BOOK NOW OR YOUβLL HAVE TO WAIT. This works well because most patients hate to wait.
- Or, If they can have surgery on a Wednesday next month, they get a $500 price reduction on the OR fee
Or, If they want it done before [wedding, summer, etc], they need to take into account the recovery time (IE., even though the downtime is less than 7 days, they are still a bit limited in activity like swimming and dancing), so theyβll want to get it done before this certain [date].
- Or Your prices are going up so you can grandfather them in at the current price as long as they put their deposit down now.
And #3 is Follow Up Protocol
Just like you follow strict protocol for surgery, develop a protocol to follow each and every time to follow-up on revenue-generating consultations that didnβt bookβ¦.YET.
Otherwise, itβs too easy to NEVER get around to following up because there are a million other things to do.
Protocol takes the emotion out of it and it becomes what you do automaticallyβ¦no matter how busy you are.
Here is an example of the steps to follow:
Immediately text the patient thanking them for their time
Mail a thank you note that day.
Day 2 β Send email thanking them and include a response to one of their objections.
Day 3 - Call them to see if they are now ready to move forward since you addressed their objection.
Day 5 - Email them social proof including patient reviews, photos, testimonials of other patients just like them who had the procedure they want so they see others have moved forward and are happy and they will be too.
Day 7 β Call with urgency update. For example, they want to look good for an event so they must complete SX by a certain date and you only have 2 slots left.
If none of that is working, continue to text or email them to keep in touch with announcements such as a special event or promotion you are having.
Then add them to your email list to stay in touch indefinitely so they remember you when they are ready to move forward.
You need to customize these to your own practice and use them in your standard protocol so you get comfortable telling the prospective patient WHY they need to make a decision now rather than later.
The most successful cosmetic practices have systems in place to follow up quickly, strategically and consistently.
They spent a lot of time, money and effort attracting prospective patients so they do all they can to see it through to a YES.
These fix your follow up strategies βpave the wayβ for your staff to do all they can to confidently convert these valuable consultations.
If your staff needs help setting up their own protocol, check out my website `where they can get the βFix Your Follow Upβ module full of strategies, phone scripts and examples of emails and text to get the patient to a yes.
Of course, it would be great if you subscribed to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes and a review would be much appreciated.
Thanks so listening and weβll talk again soon.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/3GuAJqc
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/3EOaKJV
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://bit.ly/31O4DHp
Blog: https://bit.ly/31HmEHx
Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DMIHJN
Videocast: https://bit.ly/3DNLjXL
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3pGyY2o
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GynMvz
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3IJxL35
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GxJUGy
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3lWoYRM
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to publish your own book.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
Publish Your Own Book
Adding βAuthorβ to your bio can be a game-changer in many ways. Itβs certainly an ego-boost to see your name on the cover of a book, and others see you differently as well.
But your own book is so much moreβ¦.
The public sees you as an authority and that gives you prestige and status. It also gives you notoriety and name recognition to differentiate you from other surgeons in the industry.
A book is also great content. Content is king on the Internet, so a book helps your organic SEO efforts, so you are more easily found on the Internet because youβll have a bigger digital imprint online.
Butβs thereβs moreβ¦.
My Own Book Experience
My book, βYour Aesthetic Practice: What Your Patients Are Sayingβ (https://www.catherinemaley.com/order-my-book-your-aesthetic-practice/) helped catapult my career in the plastic surgery industry.
It gave me credibility and told my audience of plastic surgeons that I was serious about making my mark on this industry.
I got free PR and was interviewed by The New York Times, Newsweek, ABC News and I have sold thousands of books that are sitting on surgeonsβ desks all over the US as well as digital copies all over the world.
It has gotten my speaking engagements as far away as Saudi Arabia, Australia and the UK and invitations to be a podcast guest.
And my book is actually helpful and adds value to surgeons who want to βbetter their bestβ so itβs been a gift that keeps on giving.
I use it as a lead generator, so my audience gets a taste of my work and, hopefully, wants more of it in the way of my consulting and training services.
The same would happen for you but in a much bigger way. I only cater to cosmetic surgeons of which there is a limited number.
You, on the other hand, are catering to the public who want cosmetic rejuvenation, so your audience is huge and unlimited. Your book would help you stand out in a crowded marketplace and help consumers choose you over all your competitors.
How to Write Your Book
Write a consumer book that is of value to the consumer who is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation, but be strategic about it to get the most value from your time, money and effort.
For example,
- Focus
This will be counterintuitive to you but it works. Write about one body part and one procedure. Be seen as an expert in one thing and they will stay for more.
And come up with a catchy title so the readers know immediately if this is for them or not.
For example,
- 5 Things You Need to Know About a Tummy Tuck.
- The Truth about Tummy Tucks
- The Secret to a Great Tummy Tuck
-
Donβt Consider a Tummy Tuck Until You Read This
-
Add Tons of Social Proof
Cosmetic patients want to see other patients just like them who have βexperiencedβ you and your skills.
The best way for you to βshow offβ your expertise is to show off your skills through great before/after photos. And be sure to add a variety of demographics so the prospective patient can see themselves in these photos.
Reviews are the next element that should be sprinkled throughout your book. What others say about you is infinitely more important than what you say about you ;-)
Patient stories sell. Everyone loves a good story so have your patients tell theirs. But lay it out in a structured way and here it is:
-
Their story starts with the problem (pain) they were in that was causing them to feel bad.
-
Then why they chose you over all the others (and thatβs why the reader will choose you too).
-
Then what the process was like (hopefully, they will brag about how well you and your staff took care of them) and
-
Then have them end with how much more confident they feel and how great their life is now that they finally took action and did something about it.
So, your book in educational because youβll first explain the procedure, whoβs a good candidate, the FAQs, objections and pros and cons and the rest of the book is your patient stories and social proof.
How to Publish Your Book
Historically, you would have to hire a book agent to get a traditional publisher to even look at your manuscript, let alone agree to publish it.
But do you really need to be in every bookstore or just in front of anyone online looking for information about your bookβs topic? If the later makes more sense, then self-publish.
Now-a-days, you can easily self-publish which means you upload your finished book to a platform like Amazon or Google Books without going through a middleman. This will save you tons of time and money.
How to Market Your Book
While your book is a powerful marketing tool, getting it in the hands of prospective patients who actually are looking for a surgeon to help them is your next challenge.
So, what happens after the book is published? How should you go about marketing it in this digital era?
For starters, donβt count on luck or word-of-mouth to make magic happen in terms of visibility, awareness, and sales right off the bat. And donβt expect this book to be a huge profit center. This is more about branding then it is selling books.
You also canβt just create a listing for it on Amazon and expect it to be a bestseller without any effort.
Also, if youβre not presently a mega-influencer in the social media arena, you canβt count on that channel to do the heavy lifting so here are strategies to help:
Create a Book Website
If you want to connect with potential readers (prospective patients) and sell books online, itβs important to have a dedicated website to spread the word, while also building an email list for email campaigns to nurture these would-be patients with consistent promotional efforts.
And considering that consumers do most of their research online, a book website is the first thing you should focus on.
Give potential readers a place to quickly and easily find all the information they need. While social media accounts are a great marketing tool, you never know when a social media platform will change an algorithm or remove content, whereas on your website you always have complete control of what potential customers see.
Be Strategic and Selective with Social Media
Social media will play a major role in terms of visibility and branding.
Depending on the target market you are attempting to attract, choose the platforms that market hangs out in and start there.
For instance, if your book is catering to professional moms, LinkedIn may be your best bet, followed by Facebook.
However, if your book is visual and filled with before/after photos of results, you may want to start with one of the more visual platforms, such as Instagram and Pinterest.
In addition, find groups that are relevant to your topic, join them and engage in authentic conversations, without promoting your book.
Allow natural connections to be made β itβs important to share your knowledge and build your reputation as an expert on your topic.
Capitalize On All Amazon Offers and Pursue Reviews
If youβre selling on Amazon (which I highly recommend), be sure to take advantage of every feature they offer to increase your chances of being discovered. Be smart with keywords and key phrases in your book description.
If you want Amazon to recommend your book to others, itβs crucial to get good reviews from your early customers.
A decent number of genuine reviews under any book adds credibility. Donβt be afraid to ask readers who purchased your book to help out by leaving a review.
In most cases, they will happily oblige. Readers love helping authors they appreciate.
Experiment With Email Promotions and Online Advertising
There are many approaches that can be taken for email promotions. You start with your current list of patients and grow that list using your book. You can even partner with book promotion sites that send emails to their own subscriber lists.
Online advertising campaigns consist of everything from paid social media promotions, to Google ads, and Amazon ads.
If youβre not already familiar with how this works, you may want to consult with a professional who has launched books before. They can save you time and money from mistakes.
Generously Give, In Order To Receive
Helping people without expecting anything in return has a way of bringing about good karma.
That means offering value to your prospective audience well before your book launch, in an effort to naturally get their support upon launch.
You could start by answering the publicβs questions about cosmetic surgery. You gain trust with your audience, and they spread the word to their family and friends.
You can also give away free e-books or just one chapter on social media to grow your followers lists and reach to more prospective patients online.
Here is a quick list of other ways to market the Heck Out of Your Book:
- Have a book signing event and take lots of photos and videos
- Invite the media β you never know.
- Send an Email invite to your current patients and have them forward to friends
- Post on your social platforms and encourage your followers to share with their friends and followers on their own social media platforms
- Add a book link to you and your staffβs email signatures with a link to buy your book
- Offer to be a guest on popular blogs and podcasts
- Sell your book on Amazon and google books
- Give all of your consultations your book to increase your conversion rate
- Do IG & FB ads offering the book for free + shipping.
Lastly, Get Some Help
You have to either put in your own time and/or pay others to get this book project completed so hereβs what you doβ¦
If you simply donβt have the time to manually and organically write, publish and market your book, you can easily find outside help. In fact, that might even be the better route.
Just google βHow to Publish a Bookβ and thousands of resources pop up. An easier route is to work with an agency that specializes in getting books to market.
They handle the A-Z of writing, publishing and marketing books and include services such as ghost writing, editing, graphic design, digital marketing, social media, public relations, advertising and publishing all under one roof.
This way, they will be responsible for staying on schedule and making your dream come true. They will also launch the book and keep the buzz going with new marketing angles and campaigns to expose it to an even wider audience for years to come.
Because when done right, with a long-term strategy in mind, your own book in a fantastic marketing and branding strategy to up level your status and brand and attract a whole lot more patients to you.
And there you have it. Thatβs how you create and publish your own book!
If you want to see how I market my own book, click below to get a Free Copy.
Of course, it would be great if you subscribed to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes and a review would be much appreciated.
Thanks so listening and weβll talk again soon.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
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β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and what a good conversion rate is.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
What is a good conversion rate?
It's a question Iβm asked often enough so Iβm assuming other surgeons also experience this, so Iβll address it in this episode.
Hereβs the question:
Dear Catherine,
I had the same patient consultant for many years and she did a great job.
We made a really good team. I performed several procedures on her through the years so she was a great testimonial and she knew how to credential me as the best. She was also very good with my patients and really good at closing consultations.
I never realized how good she was until her husband was promoted and she moved away.
My current coordinator has been on the job for the past year and we are getting mixed results.
Sheβs nice enough but we donβt get the same results I used to get.
My consult conversion rate used to be in the high 70βs for years and itβs dropped significantly. My coordinator says thatβs because the patients are price shopping our competitors and our prices are too high.
Iβm not sure thatβs true. I donβt know if itβs the patients or the coordinator or something else.
Can you tell me what is a good conversion rate?
Dr. W
Since thatβs a loaded question, we need to unpack it before I start throwing out percentages.
Lots of plastic surgeons are experiencing sporadic conversion rates. Or βfeast or famineβ months and theyβre not sure why.
This inconsistency can wreak havoc on your day, your attitude and your pocketbook.
You start questioning yourself and doubting your staff and thatβs a path to even more frustration.
So, whatβs really happening?
Well, the bad news is, thereβs no one easy answer. So many variables go into your success (or lack thereof) when converting consultations.
One practice can play the QUALITY vs. quantity game and experience an 80% conversation rate because the coordinator only works with the hyper interested. So, she sends one follow-up email and if they donβt respond, she drops them, but that same practice who is βcherry pickingβ also can experience big highs and lows in the schedule because they need a lot more leads to cherry pick the best ones..
Or a practice experiences a 25% conversion rate because they play the βQUANTITY vs. qualityβ game so they see everybody. They donβt charge a consultation fee, they have lots of no-shows and frankly, lots of flaky price-shoppers who are not yet ready to to action so the coordinator has to sift through who is a real candidate and who isnβt.
So given that, hereβs a short list of why your conversions βcouldβ be off:
-
Your SEO isnβt working like before because google changed the rules again or you changed your SEO/website provider and lost ground on your Internet presence so the new Internet company has to build your rankings back up; or
-
A new competitor came to town and is out-marketing you;
-
You changed up your marketing strategy and while youβre getting more Internet leads, they are poor quality leads;
-
Your new coordinator is nice and friendly but doesnβt have the converting skills needed to get to a YES and so on.
Because the reality is not about how many leads you get.
Itβs about how many prospective patients say YES and PAY for your services, right?
Which is why your coordinator must be on her game to convert these consults so if she needs training, check out The Converting Club for Coordinators on my website and Iβll train her for you.
Because after consulting with surgeons for 2 decades, here is what I find most often:
You donβt have a lead problem.
you have a converting and retention problem. Just saying..
But back to the question whatβs a good conversion rate. Here are guidelines to help you figure that out:
Leads coming from βInternet stranger patientsβ convert at 5-20%
Leads coming from word-of-mouth referrals convert at 70-85%
Leads coming from your current patients who want more from you convert at 85% and higher
And to break it down even more:
Breast aug leads convert much less than facelift leads so I would separate those out so the data is not skewed.
BTW, if you question my stats, no problem. Do this exercise to get the real numbers for YOUR own practice.
Have your staff look up the last 50-100 surgeries you performed and fill out an excel sheet by noting
The procedure performed
The revenues collected
The referral source: did they come cold from the Internet, were they a word-of-mouth referral or were they your current patient coming back for more.
Also note their age and zip code to determine if they are local or out of town and which demographics of patients seem to gravitate towards you.
Iβve had surgeons from all over the country do this exercise and they are always surprised to discover where their conversions and revenues came from so see for yourself and let me know your results.
That wraps up this Beauty and the biz episode so please do me a favor and subscribe if you havenβt done so already and a review would be super helpful as well.
And feel free to pass this along to your colleagues and staff
Of course, it would be great if you subscribed to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes and a review would be much appreciates.
Thanks so listening and weβll talk again soon.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how to build a practice you can sell.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
Build a practice you can sell
Even if youβre going to work until you drop and have no intentions of selling your practice, this episode will give you insights on how to make your practice more successful.
So please listen in
- You are the majority revenue-generator in your practice
- You put more value on YOU as a surgeon vs. growing profit centers run by others
- You work IN your practice more than ON your practice
The objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so itβs more profitable, more enjoyable to go to every day, and it frees up your valuable time, so you have more of it to spend doing what you like to do with the people you most enjoy being with.
But, you have a challenge that keeps you from winning in the long run.
As a surgeon, you were programmed to think in a certain fixed way.
You had to think that way to become a great surgeon.
However, that thinking is the opposite of how a businessperson thinks.
In a cosmetic practice, you, the surgeon, are the technician of the surgery, so you focus on that because youβre good at it and thatβs what you know.
However, does that make for a sellable asset when youβre ready to exit?
Probably not, so you either have to work until youβre ready to close the doors and get nothing back for your efforts, or you can set your practice up to make a profitable exit and enjoy your retirement.
If a profitable retirement sounds good to you, think like a businessperson by using these strategies:
The first one is Mindset:
Shift your thinking from a surgeon to a businessperson and βOperate your practice like itβs for saleβ.
In other words, regularly ask yourself, βIf I wanted to sell my practice tomorrow, what would I need to improve to get the most value for it?β Or, βIf I wanted to buy an existing practice, what would βIβ be looking for and be willing to invest in?
That leads us to The Value of Your Practice
Many components make up the value of your practice such as:
- Profits
- Good Will
- People
- Processes
- Tools such as your CRM
- Patient list
- P&L statements
- Vendor agreements
- Fixed Assets & inventory
All of that is important but when I interview surgeons on this Podcast and we talk about them buying another surgeonβs practice, the #1 value component they are looking for is a ready-made income stream.
Because Buyers are looking for a practiceβs ability to generate cash with a degree of predictability and certainty.
Thatβs why itβs difficult to value the surgical side of your practice.
If you have been practicing with a βone and doneβ mindset, youβre not developing much of a bond with your patients because itβs such a short-term relationship.
And, to keep your surgical side busy, you have to market and advertise to attract new surgical patients and that increases your overhead costs so other surgeons have to look at not just your revenues but also your overhead to make those revenues happen.
They know thereβs no certainty that those surgical patients will come back for more surgery or come back soon enough or often enough. Or, if they do return years later, will they be ok with a different surgeon they donβt know? Itβs hard to say so that affects the value of your practice.
However, if you can show a prospective buyer:
- Predictable revenues they can count on month after month that donβt include YOU
- And how you increase the lifetime value of your current cosmetic patients
- And how you generate more referrals and reviews organically
- And how you differentiate your practice from all the others,
Thatβs interesting AND valuable.
Because now you have a predictable, systematic cosmetic revenue stream profit center that works without you and could easily be handed off to another surgeon.
You do that by building up the non-surgical aspect of your practice.
So letβs talk about the Benefits of a Non-Surgical Profit Center
You can still enjoy the surgical side of your practice as you build a non-surgical profit center. Hire excellent team members such as a nurse-injector, laser techs and/or aestheticians who understand customer service and how to treat their patients with friendliness, kindness and respect.
These extenders act as the glue to keep cosmetic patients coming back for both non-surgical as well as surgical procedures. Because a cosmetic patient who cares about her appearance today cares about that for a lifetime so why not be her βone-stop shopβ?
Itβs the retention of your cosmetic patients that builds the value of your practice using resources you already have. These loyal patients tend to buy more, return more often and refer more of their friends.
This increases their lifetime value and decreases your advertising budget. Now you have a healthy stand-alone profit center that generates revenues without you and that makes for a great sellable asset others want to buy.
If this makes sense to you and you want to set up your own predictable and reliable revenue stream that gives you more growth and freedom, letβs talk.
Of course, it would be great if you subscribed to Beauty and the Biz so you donβt miss any episodes and a review would be much appreciates.
Thanks so listening and weβll talk again soon.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine:
https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and "selling the invisible".
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
Todayβs podcast is called, "Selling the Invisible", and I'll discuss ways on how to sell the invisible, non-tangible services that you offer.
As a plastic surgeon, youβre in a tough position when it comes to promoting the and selling the invisible.
Your surgical services are intangible. Prospective patients canβt βsee, touch, feelβ your product so that makes it difficult for them to decipher the quality of work they are paying for.
Thatβs a big reason itβs so difficult for them to decide on you versus your competitors. Thereβs nothing tangible for them to compare and thus, you're selling the invisible to them.
Cosmetic patients also have to get past the fear of uncertainty and regret. Letβs face it β once they have a cosmetic surgical procedure performed, it cannot be undone or returned.
So, why wouldnβt a cosmetic patient choose you over others?
The reality is cosmetic patients choose you for so much more than just your medical degrees.
SO, HERE ARE 4 KEY ELEMENTS NEEDED TO PROMOTE COSMETIC SURGERY PROCEDURES and they all start with βPβ:
PRODUCT
Because your cosmetic services are invisible and do not provide prospective patients with visual clues about function, performance and benefits, you have to be creative.
The way to win over your competitors is to help patients understand what the procedure entails and its value to them. Painting a picture for them so that you're not selling the invisible, but selling them the "envisionable".
You win over patients by educating them. For example, the procedure description should clearly state:
- What the procedure is β as in what problems it addresses and how you uniquely solve those problems.
- Why the procedure is important β by explaining what noticeable improvements it makes
- The Benefits of the procedure β such as youβll look good and feel great and the
- Deliverables are what the patient can expect in terms of the journey before, during and after.
There is much technology available today to help you illustrate your services and educate these consumers so they are better able to make a decision by "envisioning the invisible", so I highly recommend using it.
PERSONALITY
Like it or not, thanks to the transparency of the Internet and social media, this has become a personality contest.
Prospective patients want to know you as a surgeon but also as a person. They bond with you by feeling as if they know you through your photos and videos online.
They want to see you as a multi-faceted individual. Not just a surgeon, but also as a Dad, spouse, speaker, gardener, cook and whatever else youβre willing to share so the prospective patients feels comfortable enough to book the consultation.
BTW, your personality IS your differentiator since nobody else is like you, so I highly recommend using it.
PROCESSes
Professionally trained staff and well-defined processes ensure that your services are provided in a consistent manner.
And, consistent service tells the patient you are a quality practice they can count on to give them predictable service in a specific way for a great result.
A practice following consistent procedural protocols that runs smoothly is perceived as a sign of quality and cannot be taken lightly.
PHYSICAL EVIDENCE
This last βPβ deals with anything βtangibleβ or visual. That includes your before/after photos, reviews and patient testimonials, preferably on an iPad the patient can feel and touch. Just another way for them to grasp exactly what it is that you're offering, which is the opposite of "selling the invisible".
But it goes beyond that to your image, such as your lobby, location, furniture, marketing materials, hair, shoes, jewelry, clothes, etc.
Itβs the details that distinguish you and help position you as the best service provider.
So to recap this episode on how to sell the invisible and the 4 key elements needed to promote cosmetic surgical procedures, just remember the 4 P's:
Product - Personality - Processes - Physical Evidence
If you need help with this, letβs do a Free 30-minute strategy call you can schedule from my website at https://www.CatherineMaley.com.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine:
https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
Todayβs guest is Frank L. Stiles, MD, FACS.
He's a board certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon running an uber successful private practice in Las Vegas, Nevada.
When your father is a tailor and your mother is a seamstress in Queens, you either follow in their footsteps, or go down a completely different path.
Dr. Frank Stile chose the latter. He took his parentsβ lessons and carved out his own path to build his plastic surgery private practice and legacy on his terms.
It was so interesting and inspiring to hear how his growth mindset feeds his many interests as a surgeon, marketer, businessman, painter, author, philanthropist and finally, family man in his 50βs.
Watch my interview with Dr. Stile as he talks about:
β
How he differentiates himself in crowded and flashy βSin Cityβ
β
His biggest challenges scaling his thriving practice
β
How fatherhood later in life has changed him
β
Words of wisdom and what it takes to take your practice to the next level and so much more
Dr. Stileβs extensive knowledge and training, focus, and attention to detail creates gorgeous, natural results for patients seeking aesthetic improvements. At his private cosmetic surgery practice, Dr. Stile has spared no expense to design and build his very own accredited on-site surgery center. The center is licensed by the State of Nevada Department of Health and accredited by the Joint Commission. This is the only private plastic surgery practice to have both of these certifications. Dr. Stile performs a wide range of cosmetic, reconstructive, and nonsurgical skin rejuvenation procedures for the face, breast and body.
His outstanding outcomes and ongoing research have been featured in publications such as The New York Times, Maxim, and The Huffington Post. An avid painter and sculptor, Dr. Stileβs work can be seen in his well-appointed sprawling Las Vegas facility. Dr. Stile is also extremely proud of the Frank L. Stile foundation, which was established in 2011 to better the health, nutrition, safety and well-being of children.
Visit Dr. Stileβs website at:
https://www.DrStile.com
Email Dr. Stile at:
drstile@hotmail.com
Direct Message Dr. Stile at:
https://www.instagram.com/drstile/
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons #drstile #lasvegasplasticsurgeon #lasvegascosmeticsurgeon
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
How to Attract Affluent Cosmetic Patients
How would you like to charge twice as much as your competitors?
This would allow you to either double your revenues with the same amount of patients or work less for the same amount of revenues.
For example, letβs say your competitors charge $5K for a bleph so you charge $10K.
The math is easyβ¦.Your competitors need to attract and serve 200 cosmetic patients for a $1M cosmetic practice while you need only 100.
What would that mean to you in terms of time, money and energy focusing on the needs of only 100 patients versus the 200 βgenericβ patients that everyone else is attempting to attract?
Focusing on the 100 affluent patients versus the 200 βanybodyβsβ makes very good business sense so letβs look at how you make it happen.
Itβs Not About Your Skills at This Level
This will be counterintuitive but important to grasp:
Itβs not about being 2x better at a bleph to charge 2x more.
Board-certified trained plastic surgeons do a nice bleph. Thatβs true or you wouldnβt be board-certified.
And this isnβt about supporting your higher price simply be creating better value propositions.
That works well for the βmass marketβ but not for the upscale, affluent market.
Because this assumes everybody is a value buyer and thatβs not the case when you go up the food chain.
The masses buy for all sorts of other reasons, but affluent cosmetic patients DONβT buy for value.
The further up the ladder they are β the less βneeds drivenβ they are.
So, itβs all about what they WANT to do β not what they NEED to do.
They think differently than the average patient.
They are not buying by need and function, so they are not buying by price and value.
Itβs more about the intangibles and what this procedure means to them that is driving their decision.
The Affluent Patientβs Frame of Mind
Affluent patients pay more because doing so makes them feel more like the person they either wish they were or envision themselves to be.
At this level, you are hardly talking about the surgery.
Itβs the intangibles of the surgery that attracts the affluent patients to you.
The affluent patients are looking for superior service providersβ¦.even if itβs based on perception.
They believe they deserve the best, so they want the best.
This group will pay to buy certainty.
By the way, trust is the single most important issue because the affluent patient wants to feel like they are getting the best.
How to Make Price Disappear from the Equation
So, knowing that, what are the things that make price disappear from the equation and YOU the only choice for affluent patients?
The answer is YOU. Itβs more about you than your product.
You stand out from the crowd by doing what others wonβt do or canβt do.
The quickest path in todayβs world is to either marry one of the housewives on Bravo TV or at least be their go-to plastic surgeon.
But if thatβs not possible, here are 3 other strategies that help make price go away:
1.Peer Recommendations
The affluent are reached more through peer referral than any other avenue. This group of cosmetic patients value trust more than anything else so they turn to others they trust.
Knowing that, youβll want to identify who those patients are in your own practice. Give them an excellent result and an exceptional patient experience.
Now make them part of your VIP Club where you have private events they can invite their friends to.
To make it special, add a charity component to it and invite the media.
Itβs the exclusivity that gives the affluent patients the feeling of status they want and expect.
2.Be The Expert
Although you are well versed at all sorts of surgical procedures, the affluent patient wants to go to the BEST.
They want the surgeon who specializes in blephs, has done 10x more blephs than the average surgeon and who has tons of social proof of hundreds of other happy bleph patients.
It would also be helpful if you are considered, βThe Eye Guyβ because you have been interviewed by the media and you even train other surgeons on your innovative bleph techniques.
3.Use Social Media to Connect with Affluent PatientsSocial media has made it possible for you to develop your own fan club quickly and easily. Regularly post before and after photos of your bleph patients and tell their story.
Shoot short Instagram video stories answering bleph FAQs. Respond to anyone who comments on your posts and find out if they are social media influencers who also have a healthy following they can introduce you to.
The point is after enough communication, familiarity, reinforcement and social proof, the affluent patients now have sufficient trust in you to choose you as their go-to plastic surgeon.
Conclusion
Attracting the affluent patient takes a different way of thinking.
If you believe you are worth double what your competitors charge, set your practice up to cater to the affluent patients that are attracted to your higher prices and better patient experience because, they too, believe they are worth it.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
Tired of Cheap Cosmetic Patients?
Cosmetic patients today are so price-focused, it can drive you crazy.
You get leads but most of the time is starts with the one question which is.... βHow much is it?β
Or, during your consultation with them, they attempt to negotiate with you or your coordinator by letting you know they can get the same thing cheaper elsewhere.
Really? Is that really true? Do they really believe all surgeons are the same?
Actually, due to the overwhelming information on the Internet and insane amount of marketing we are bombarded with, consumers due start to believe that.
So what do you do?
On the one hand, you want to be fairly compensated for your skills, expertise and the years youβve put into building your practice and great reputation.
But, on the other hand, you donβt want to lose to your discounting competitors.
Itβs so frustrating to have to decide how to deal with these price-shoppers, isnβt it?
So, you have several pricing choices:
- You can slash your prices to match the discounters in your area
- You can DO better, BE better and charge more than your competitors
- You can strategically offer a balance of price, results and service
The first option is not a good one. If you lead with price, you set the tone for your relationship with that new patient forever.
We all know how difficult it is to upsell a discount-minded cosmetic patient who came to you initially for price (because they will also leave for price just as fast) so this is NOT a good strategy.
The second option is to BE better by charging more than your competitors because you are seen as the expert in the media.
You get that expert status by building a name in your community through active community involvement as well as local and national PR.
Just know, PR is great when you can get it, but it doesnβt usually just fall into your lap.
It typically takes time, money and effort to get that kind of coverage.
I believe your best strategy is the last one, which is to offer a balance of price, results and service. That means be congruent.
You have to back up your higher prices with better service, results and the experience the new patient has with you.
Because even though this is an emotional decision for them, they also need logical reasons to explain to others why they chose you.
Details count since the patient is looking for clues to justify spending more with you than the discounting competitor. That includes the quality of your:
β
Websiteβs updated βlook and feelβ
β
Your excellent before/after photos
β
Your interesting Instagram account
β
Your educational and entertaining videos on YouTube
β
Your positive online reviews
β
Your receptionistβs friendly phone voice and skills
β
The rest of your staffβs customer service skills
β
Your office location and furnishings
β
You and your staffβs hair, makeup, clothes, shoes, etc.
And, if you donβt want the cheap cosmetic patients, I suggest you donβt cater to them anymore.
Stop advertising specials to total strangers on the Internet. Instead, educate them on what makes you the better choice over the lower price.
Start attracting a better-quality cosmetic patient by stepping up your game so you attract the cosmetic patients who care more about your skill, expertise and reputation than they do about the cheapest price.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
The Patient Coordinator Role
You may not realize how insanely difficult it is to get a complete stranger to buy your cosmetic services.
First, they need to become aware of you. Then research you enough to feel compelled to contact you, then meet you and then say yes to you and hand over their credit card.
A lot happens between each of those stages, but especially at the converting stage when your would-be patient is at the pivotal moment of saying yes orβ¦.
βI have to think about it and call you back.β
A professionally trained coordinator would NOT set herself up for failure by letting this happen in the first place.
She would use proven strategies to not only avoid this from happening, but to methodically prepare the prospective patient to say yes instead.
But hereβs what I see in many practicesβ¦.
Too many coordinators have been placed in the role with no sales training.
Sure, they are nice people, may look the part and be educated on your procedures and processes.
However, they donβt have the mindset, sales methods or structure to convert more often.
And just because your coordinator has been on the job for years doesnβt mean sheβs a professional living up to her potential.
Without professional training, sheβs actually working with one arm behind her back and not able to give you the best results you both want.
For example, see if your patient coordinator has these attributes:
Coordinatorβs Mindset and Attitude
A patient coordinator must love serving the public. She must be curious about others and helping them get what they want.
She is open and friendly with a ready smile, great eye contact and has a confidant air about her that puts strangers at ease quickly.
She doesnβt see her role as βsellingβ but rather as βservingβ the public to help them make a good decision.
Her money mindset is also solid. She appreciates your skill and expertise and calmly explains why you charge what you charge without apologizing for it.
A Coordinator Builds Rapport
A professionally trained coordinator listens and learns.
She acts as the patientβs aesthetic advisor to help them through their journey, so they are comfortable every step of the way.
She builds rapport by asking strategic questions to help her bond with the patient.
These questions also help her get to know the prospective patientβs pre-conceived beliefs, expectations, and hot buttons to better gauge where the patient is coming from emotionally, physically, as well as financially.
A Coordinator Promotes the Surgeon as the BEST Choice
The right coordinator knows how to strategically build you up BEFORE the patient consultation, so the patient is 70% more likely to say yes during their visit.
The right coordinator βdrinks the Kool-Aidβ. She loves the plastic surgery industry.
Sheβs fascinated with the transformations that happen with your patients and wants that for new prospective patients who visit you.
She partakes in the services herself and has no qualms about people spending money to enhance their appearance and confidence.
She is your biggest fan and knows how to brag about you using presentation tools, so the would-be patient also sees you as the best choice.
A Coordinator Knows How to Present
The trained coordinator knows how to use verbal cheerleading to present the quote, so the patient understands all that goes into it and is excited to proceed.
She confidently articulates the process, so the patient is comfortable with the steps that follow
and reiterates the benefits of choosing you and your practice.
The coordinator checks in with the patient throughout her presentation to be sure the patient is following along and still engaged.
A Coordinator Knows How to Convert
The professionally trained coordinator knows there is a pivotal point when she stops presenting and asks for the decision in a smooth way that makes it comfortable for the patient to say yes.
And, if the patient does have questions or objections, the coordinator calmly addresses them and asks for the decision again using a different angle.
So, how did your patient coordinator stack up?
Does it sound like you have a professionally trained coordinator representing you to the best of her ability?
The point of all this is to remind you that there are nuances to everything.
For example, there are nuances to surgical techniques that make all the difference in your outcomes and the same goes for converting consultations.
Without knowing these small nuances in the process of converting consultations to paid procedures could be holding her back from greater results.
If you believe your coordinator could benefit from professional training, please check out The Converting Club for Coordinators at my website catherinemaley.com where I professionally train coordinators to convert more consultations professionally and confidently.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book:
https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine:
https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. β
Todayβs guest is Stanley Okoro, MD.
He's a board certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon running an uber successful private practice in Marietta, GA.
Dr. Okoro is originally from Nigeria and he got his start by completing a 5-year surgical training program at Emory University in Atlanta. Then, he joined the U.S. Navy for 4 years where he achieved the rank of Commander and served as Chief of Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery at our βPresidentβs Hospitalβ in Bethesda, Maryland.
βHeβs a published author whoβs received multiple awards, authored many topics in plastic surgery journals, is a popular speaker at plastic surgery conferences all over the world, and has been featured in national and international media outlets.β
Dr. Okoro is also a community leader and philanthropist. He serves as Medical Director of Georgia Plastic Foundation and heβs Executive Director of Imo Medical Mission providing medical & surgical services in Nigeria.
Topic include:β
β
Journey from Nigeria to Georgia.
ββ
Private practice: Why there? Demographics?
β
Other surgeons in practice with you.
β
Family.
β
Managing and motivating staff pearls?
β
Scale or not scale? How?
β
Biggest mistake you made so far and what you learned from it?
β
Marketing.
β
Bow-Tie Doctor and dressing for success.
β
Book β Brazilian Buttock Lift.
β
Whatβs working? Whatβs not?
β
Price guide and range.
β
Social Media - 59K Followers.
β
Skills and resources needed?
β
Mindset.
β
How do you handle adversity and keep going no matter what?
β
Who do you follow, books, podcasts, etc?
Visit Dr. Okoroβs website at:
https://www.georgiaplastic.com
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at:
https://www.CatherineMaley.com
...Or DM me on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President of The Aesthetic Society:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-86-robert-singer-md-former-president-of-the-aesthetic-society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former ASAPS President:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/blog/ep-44-covid-19-update-with-asaps-past-president-dr-grant-stevens
ββ‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast/ep-88-e-gaylon-mccollough-md-facs-past-president-abfprs-aacs
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcast
iTunes Subscribe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
Videocasts: https://www.catherinemaley.com/videocast
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinemaleymba
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMaleyMBA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemaley
Transcript:
Okoro, Stanley
Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's special guest is Stanley Okoro, MD. He's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon running an uber successful practice in a private practice in Marietta, GA. Now Dr. Okoro is originally from Nigeria, and we're going to talk more about that. And he got his start by completing a five-year surgical training program at Emory university in Atlanta.
And then he joined the U.S. Navy for four years where he achieved the rank of Commander and served as Chief of plastic and reconstructive surgery at our "President's Hospital" in Bethesda. Yeah, he's a published author. Who's received multiple awards, authored many topics in plastic surgery journals. He's a popular speaker at plastic surgery conferences all over the world.
And that's where I see him the most. And he's been featured in national and international media outlets. Now, Dr. Okoro is also a community leader and a philanthropist. Now he serves as Medical Director of Georgia Plastic Foundation. And he's executive director of Imo Medical Mission providing medical and surgical services in Nigeria.
Dr. Okoro welcome to Beauty and the Biz.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Thank you very much, Catherine. Thank you for everything you do for our industry.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. Now I have to ask, how did you get from Nigeria to Georgia?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I didn't Swim! but long story. I my, my parents wanted me to get an American education. So, I finished high school at age 16. So, I started college at age 16 in Washington, DC. My, my, my dad literally flew me over here and enrolled me in school in University of the District of Columbia in Washington, DC. So, I started my life in the DC area, so that that's like my first home.
And then. One thing led to another and ended up at Meharry medical college. That's where I went to medical school in Nashville, Tennessee, and from Nashville. I did very well and I went to. University for my generous or your residency, where I did four years of five years of a brutal training, which was good for me at the end.
From there I was recruited by the U.S. Navy where to make a long story short, I served 12 years. We those 12 years, I did my plastic surgery training at UT Health Sciences Center in San Antonio, Texas. That's why they, my plastic surgery training was both certified in both general surgery and plastic surgery.
And after do my services in the Navy, I came back to Atlanta, Georgia in 2010. So that's how I came to Georgia.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And then did you leave the Navy and go straight into your own private practice?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Yes. So, I Le I left the Navy 2010. If you remember what something happened, 2008, 2009, 2010. So, I was right in the middle of the recession.
I was looking for a job in Georgia. Because I did my general residency here as I was, you know, we had friends and family here. I wanted to come back here, but nobody was hiring during the recession in oh 8 0 9, 2010. So, and I was forced to open my own practice. Didn't want to run a practice. I knew it was a lot of work to on the business end of the medicine.
But we had to do it because I had to put food on the table. So that's what we had to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And so, did the building you're in now is gorgeous. Did you start out in that building or did you have to grow into that building? Well,
Dr. Stanley Okoro: we did not have we had to grow into that beauty. So, we started it was humble beginning.
We started in an 1800 square foot office where I rented an office from my landlord who is a neurosurgeon, very nice guy. He actually, his building was empty for four years during the recession. So, when I came to him, I was like a blessing to him. So, he said I said can we use it? I don't have any money, but I promise I will pay you as soon as I start making money.
He said, okay, you can take it for six months. So, he didn't charge me any rent for six months. I said, I want to make it look good. And I did. We painted the whole thing. My wife, my wife, and I started the whole thing. And then after two years there, the practice grew from just taking care of people.
And that's when we moved into the building where we are in 2012.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice building by the way. So, you mentioned your wife and she's been a really intricate part of your success. What's it like working with your wife and then on top of that, now some of your kids, you have four children actually, or I met one girl is, are, have the others joined suit and they're in the practice as well.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: No. I've, I've been trying to get them to. Going to Madison, but they're kind of around, I don't know what I did, but maybe they're in like how hard work, none of the, my medicine. But the one you met in my practice, my first Adobe's where she's still there. She's having an Aggie again. Runs the practice.
I think I worked for that. Yeah. So, she, she she's been at the beginning. She runs the whole. Can I just do surgery,
Catherine Maley, MBA: you know, and that's every surgeon's dream to be in the surgical suite and have the business run itself. And you have that luxury most don't sometimes you have the wife in there, but she doesn't know how to run a practice, or she doesn't know how to manage staff.
You happen to have a wife who understands the business side of plastic surgery. So, consider yourself really lucky, cause that's a tough one. And then sometimes it's hard to work with staff, with family, you know? Yeah.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: It's tough to walk with family. But I think like you said, we are definitely blessed.
She understands business and we; she keeps it very strictly business. So, I, you know, I overlooked. Then and Derek most of the stuff I was born to a business family, so that helped us well, I'm the first to be in medicine in my family. Everybody in my family is in the business. My father is a lawyer.
My brother is into business. So, my mom owned the supermarket when I was growing up. And so, business comes to, comes to me naturally. In the, in the, in the, in this practice has been definitely very helpful.
Catherine Maley, MBA: And you didn't grow up with medicines. So how did you have some unique experience as a kid and said, oh my God, I want to do what he just did when he put my year back together.
It was it that kind of thing.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I didn't know. You're going to talk about that, but yeah, my, my, my mom who passed last year was she, she lived a good life. We celebrate her life. She was sick at a, at an earlier age. So, I mean, she would see the LA good care in Nigeria and added really adored those doctors. I want to be like, they mean, they impressed me so much.
And then when, when, when I was young, I had my appendix removed and I knew going through that process as well, so that I think having my appendix removed, sealed the deal for me, that I want to be a surgeon that, so at an earlier age at B a. 8 15 16. I said, I want to be a surgeon to do those kinds of things.
There are awesome. So very impressive. So, I kept the dream alive.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. Now, do you still do reconstructive surgery? Are you basically now 100% cosmetic?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Reconstructive surgery is what brought me into plastic surgery to start with. I was a journal sojourn and don't math back to me and then refinement refine my patients to plastic surgeons to for construction.
That's how I started my career. That's what drove me into plastic surgery. However, as you you've been to my office and the practice cannot grow. The referral pattern in, in Georgia is kind of funny. I came back to Georgia squat do reconstruction. And I did, I did that, but it wasn't enough to support my practice.
So, the aesthetic part of the practice has taken over the reconstruct reconstructed part of it. We still offer those, but for me it's gotten to the point where. I basically do 99% if they practice now. I still take care of my reconstructed patients that I, I don't abandon any patients and the best what I do.
So, it's mostly aesthetics, but. I don't feel bad because I still provide a lot of reconstructive surgery overseas when I travel. So, what I see by spending multiple medical missions, where I act as a general surgeon, plastic surgeon. So, I do tons of reconstructive surgery every year.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I know that you brought on another plastic surgeon and I believe you're actually looking to grow more and bring on more.
You brought on a couple of extenders as well because a surgeon quickly learns that all arrows point to the surgeon, and that's got to be exhausting when you are the revenue generator. And so, you were smart enough to bring somebody on any tips or tricks on how you bring someone on. And I know you're looking for somebody else.
What are you looking for?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: So, we don't just like you said, I mean, the practice has grown and it continues to grow today. As we speak right now, my next surgery date available date is next year, July and August of next year, close to year as creative aesthetic patients. One day services now. Okay, so we have a capacity problem.
So, we, I noticed this a few years ago, so we brought on a partner the Dr. Park, who is excellent. Do a good job, but he's also getting booked up. People love the practice. So, we're in the process of recruited another plastic surgeon to join us. It's just a capacity problem and is a great place to work.
And when the patients come there, the love it, and they're singing to the choir here. They, you know, refer award amount and all kinds of stuff and social media. So that's where we are. We are growing. I'm not retiring anytime soon, but I can't pick you up everywhere myself. Plus, we need the help. We have great peers and nurses, medical assistants, and patient care coordinators.
And to do I mean the, the success of the practice is a Testament to what they do. So, at the, I think the good or the practice is a team effort
Catherine Maley, MBA: when you bring another surgeon on, because I get asked this a lot, how do you introduce them to the practice? Are they first and associate or do they just eat what they kill or like, how do you do that?
And then when do they become a partner with actual equity in the practice?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I said, very good question. So, for us, we keep it very open. We. So, it depends on where the servants coming from new graduates usually would like a salary guarantee for about two years, because you know, you just finished school.
You don't have a whole lot of money and you want somebody to help you. We have we have that capacity to support the surgeon that way. So, they come on as an employee if they want. So, we have so many options. So, if you want to come and comment as an employee, you have a salary grantee for two years, within two years with one or ramp you up.
And so, you can grow your practice. Ultimately, I want everybody to be the determinant of their own destiny. That's what I want. I want you to be able to eat what you kill, support, pull your weight. So, after four years, so two years as an employee, hopefully two years. Where if you want to stay as an employee, that's fine as well.
If you want to eat what you kill, that's fine. But after four years you are eligible for partnership and then you, you can buy into the practice. So that's ours, but if you want to come on and eat what you kill, that's going to be tough for a new grad, as you know, unless they have. Patients already, which is not going to happen the first year.
So, the practice has to solve, support the person, but we are, we are open to supporting PPP in different ways. That's what we, that's what we do.
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, that's great. I have you had any mishaps have you know, any tips on. Whom you might've brought on that you shouldn't have, or any, any strategies there for choosing the right people?
Yeah,
Dr. Stanley Okoro: that is a tough one. I've had some mishap in the, in the past. Yeah, that's called experience. Right? You learn, you learn from your experience and your mistakes. We all make mistakes. So actually, your mistakes are what makes you strong? Yep. You know, that's the saying? They say what? That does not kill you only makes you stronger.
It is true when it comes to practices too. So, I think the key in for me is honesty, transparency. And just being a nice person you for us, I look for people who are good people first. Okay. You can look for a good surgeon. It can't Butte personality, but if you, even, if you have a good personality is to get the best surgeon.
So, you want good personality and a good surgeon. If you can get those mics, then you you're good. If you get good surgeon and bad pesticides. You have a problem. And sometimes young people don't know what it takes to run a business and they come out the one that makes so much X amount of dollars. I'm like, ah, how are you going to weigh?
Is that there's no monetary at the bank at the, at the, at the back office, you have to actually do surgery to journey these funds and this revenue. So, some people don't understand that it takes years to command that kind of revenue like there's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's hard work, but it's not easy to bring a part where you gig bring somebody to your practice.
You really marrying the person. And that marriage is tough. Partnership is tough. So, you want somebody to have patient understanding and I'm being honest is that I think is the best solution to this.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Just a little tip on my side that I just, from my own experience, make sure the wife is on board as well.
Have the wife meet your wife and your practice and, and did they come from there because too often the wife is following. The doctor's dream and he doesn't mind moving across country. She minds a lot because she's leaving her family behind. So, I would just say the life is very, very important in this equation because we can't have the doctor happy and the wife one happy.
Yeah.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: All the husbands cause you again, a female plastic surgeon at the end that the, the husband. So, it's a very good advice. The wife and the husband they have to be honest. It's a team effort, actually. It's really easy to tempt him for, but I think we, you know, you can say you figure it out cause you don't know what's coming next.
Right. But I think the formula that we have right now is working for. We hope to grow to the practice...Georgie Plastic is really beautiful, like for plastic surgeons, that's, that's, that's the goal. So right now, we, as two of us were halfway there by, you know, hopefully by law and grace of God, we will get to the three next year or sooner.
And then we'll see about number four and then there will be full to capacity. And then we may have to build additional locations for.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So, you would, you would scale, you would go. Can you build out at all because you have a beautiful property there. Can you build out?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: We were actually talking about it the other day.
If they, the county where we are, has a limitation on how high you can go, but we will have to move. Imploded you then and build we can, but it's going to cost a lot of money.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. And that is something you have plenty of. So, I know you're very focused on surgical, but what are your feelings about nonsurgical and catching that patient where they are?
So, they stay. You know, they can either go up the ladder you know, to surgery from nonsurgical, or they can start with surgery and work their way down the ladder to nonsurgical. What's youβre feeling about that patient for life kind of thing, and meeting the patients wherever they might be
Dr. Stanley Okoro: to be successful in this industry, you really.
I have to see the patient as a live patient. Okay. Non-surgical is where it's at is surgeon that does not have a non-surgical practice is, has a practice. That's gone out of business. I'm going to come out and link to say that. So non-surgical practice is if the future of plastic surgery, literally, and we do have a medical spa just for that purpose.
The reason is. You can have a patient that comes in, comes in for a mommy makeover, Tommy document, the breastfed pressing plant, right? This is she's a 40, 50 years old right now. She still has. If somebody's body wants their tummy to look good, believe me, they want their neck and their face to look good too.
And if you don't offer that service, they're going to go to somebody that does. You want to keep them in-house you want to? So, our, our strategy. At Julia plastics, a one stop shop. Would you put your way, get your neuro modulators, your fillers, your laser hair removal, your EMS calls, your smoosh shifts, all that stuff?
So, my spa, I should say ours. How does a great job meeting the needs of those patients and non-surgical services that they need until they're ready for the next one? So, you do a breastplate on Thermatech. At age 48 50, given the history of this country, obesity is rampant. People are getting big look at what happened to COVID.
Right? Right. So, they look at their autonomy and that they see that Tyler didn't because they are back. They want to come back, but it doesn't happen overnight. So definitely if we're stuck, we do have, so there's this thing in a practice with we'll call it the Georgia plastic ecosystem. It's the ecosystem or the aesthetic ecosystem.
I'm going to be speaking about that next year when we start going to conferences again. So, I'm going to be talking about the aesthetic ecosystem with how to keep the patients come in and meeting all of their needs and your practice. So, if you don't have those services, Somebody else, cause you don't want your patient to think that all you do is a permit doc.
Cause I had this story. I had a patient many years ago when I in my earlier career as a, as a new brand-new surgeon, of course we're doing breast reduction and insurance. When you first come on, that's what you had to do. So, a patient comes back post-operatively after breast reduction and asked me. Do I know a plastic surgeon that does liposuction?
Catherine Maley, MBA: they don't, they don't see you as anything, but what they saw you as, when they started it's, doesn't even Dawn on them that you, wow.
You're actually a plastic surgeon you can do cosmetic as well.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Yeah. So that was the key moment for me. I had to, I, I still remember that and I, I don't remember who the patient will be at pancreas. Opening my eyes, she and I was like, wow. So, all she saw me was the breast reduction surgeon and she was looking for a plastic surgeon and that was, that was a few women.
So, I think nonsurgical is a. Medical spas services is definitely in, well, I know a lot of my colleagues may have been ignoring that, but there's a lot of resources. This, you can literally generate a lot of revenue to run your practice from the non-surgical press.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I know most surgeons are not getting all the disposable income of a patient.
Most patients, they have their go-to for Botox because they can get in and out quickly, or they love this one injector. So, they put some money over there at another place, or they love their plastic surgeon for the bigger ticket items. But I guarantee you're never getting all the, all the resources online.
You're paying attention to it, you know, unless you're really developing that relationship and they know that you are the one-stop shop, you've got to be the umbrella in today's world. It's just getting too expensive. Not to be, as a matter of fact, I'd love to talk about marketing now because you are an excellent marketer.
And one thing, I don't know if everyone's watching the video, but you have to go to YouTube later and watch the video. Dr. O Caro is very, very well-known as the Botox. Doctor and ever since, do you sleep in bow ties? Because, because I've never ever seen you without a bow tie, you must have a lot of them because I've never seen the same one twice and you even have one for surgery when you're wearing your scrubs.
So, what a great differentiator. So, tell me the story about, did you, were you born with a bow tie or how did all that happen?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Well, it is a long story but I'm going to make you short I was do surgery at my hour center one time. And then a patient bought me a boat. If I were her favorite color and that changed everything and she thought I would look good on a bow guy.
So, I started wearing boots in surgery. I remember the first time I was Bota in surgery, people were whoa, what's going on? So, I figured, Hey, give him something to talk about. As long as it's not negative and peoples that are branded, branded me, the boat, our plastic surgeon and patients loved it. So, they will.
The reason why I have so many Bota is. Patients bring me both sides for their surgery, their favorite colors. I have every color I have different. I have both. Oh my God. I didn't know you going to ask. So, I have a D a. I have both I ever have, but I'm a bad my car everywhere. That's everywhere. So, I don't sleep with my boat.
I love, and I can add time. I put that little in the back. I can close my eyes and tie a bow tie. That's how good. Oh, they're
Catherine Maley, MBA: the real bow ties. I thought they would be clip on that. Wouldn't be the only one I could deal with. And you're a very dapper dresser. So, most of the time is very color coordinated with your handkerchief in the pocket.
On, I remember being at a meeting and it was just a sea of. You know, cause you guys are always dress up with suits. You stood out like a, not a sore thumb. You stood out like a guiding light because you had a bow tie on. I thought that's genius, you know, because appreciate yourself.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Yeah. My dad always, he always says dreadful dress for the job that you want.
Not the one you have. So, he's also told me that to dress well and people will treat you based on how you dress. I took that to heart. So, I always try to do my best. Thank you for noticing I appreciate it. Oh
Catherine Maley, MBA: yeah. No big time. You've also done a super good job on social media and it's also your demographics.
It seems like you. To the younger girls, like the bodywork. And it's just a different demographic, like versus let's say the older, more mature woman who wants facial rejuvenation, would you do, but it's just, you've done. I think you've got 59,000 followers on Instagram and you're really good about doing Facebook live Instagram live.
So, I'm sure that didn't come natural to you, but do you have any suggestions for how you get comfortable in front of the camera and how do you attract so many patients to you.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: So, we, we have a social practice. So, we've, we've defined our practice as a social practice where so this is the sacred, okay.
One, you get, you need to hire, if you can afford it, hire a public or social media coordinator, gadget job is to handle all your, all of your social media. So that's what we did, and then make sure that your staff, your team are on the same page. Everyone must be comfortable with social media. All of our staff when they're hired, have to sign a consent for social media.
So, at any given moment, the social media person can do a video. We don't have to worry about that. The patients who are on social media, of course, we have to get a consent for social media, for the patients. So, the same consent for a patient, the same concept for employees upon hire. So, the success we don't have millions of followers, but we do have real followers.
And we are done by our social media coordinator. I do my best. I'm not a social media wizard by any chance, but I do my best to keep it.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know how I can tell they like you, when I go over your Instagram posts, you'll stand in front of like, let's say a video screen talking about why you don't want to gain weight before liposomal.
I thought that was fascinating. And so did 8,000 other people, you know the doctors, the surgeons have a tendency to get in their own way and say, I'm not an actor. I'm not interesting. You're fascinating to a patient who wants bodywork and you're, if you're explaining it to them, I thought that video was amazing.
I'm never going to forget that because I also thought, and I know better that you should gain weight because before, before light bulb, because you'll get rid of it, you were like, no, you're good. Anyway, that was excellent. Really, really good. Yes.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I think the thing is when some people are shy on a, on a camera just think of it as if you're talking to the pig.
One patient, not 10,000, you thought to the one person and you want that person to listen to you. I learned that scale when we're doing some commercials in Atlanta, Georgia on the TV. Live TV. So, you just, just talk to the person who's doing the video and don't worry about it. Do your best, keep it natural.
That's, that's what we do for social media. We we're, it's all in-house we do it all in house. We have our own social media coordinator. She's doing a great job and my staff contributes. Dr. Park does social media, or even our peers have their own videos. I have the own channel.
Catherine Maley, MBA: How did you get.
Nini. Is that her name? The Housewives of Atlanta, I believe. I, I mean, she gave you some killer videos and just somebody like that. If you can get a housewife in your town, you're golden. Did that make a huge difference or by then you were already a big,
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I it's hard to tell because that's a more recent relationship.
I don't know what happened. All of the Housewives, all of a sudden started coming to Georgia plastic. So, we do have a lot of celebrities, but Atlanta is, is becoming popular in the movie industry. So, a lot of celebrities come to us. So, we're used to that. We tank many came and wanted to be part of the movement, I guess.
And then we, we, we, we are happy for her have relationship. So that there's more, more to come from that.
Catherine Maley, MBA: That was golden. So, regarding marketing you, it sounds like you've tried all sorts of things. You, you, it sounds like you did some TV, you did some commercials, not, I'm sure you did print or, you know, all, whatever radio, all of that.
What, what used to work that no longer does and what's working now that surprises.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I know, I know yellow pages don't work anymore.
So, we did yellow pages with we. We did a little bit of print magazine. It didn't work that that doesn't work. There's no return on investment on magazine. Most of the time, if it works for you and continues to work for you, that's great. But I think we did TV and we did radio. Does a hit or miss at the, at the end of the day, I think with all of that stuff, I would probably say social media is the most effective right now.
Social media is literally. Old fashioned new school, what amount? You know what I mean? So, the old word of mouth is not social media. That's what that is. Okay. So that's the most effective part of, of, of marketing that we use right now, but there is no marketing greater than their personal referral from another patient.
It can be that. So, every patient. That comes to the practice is all about the personal experience, because I know when they have a great experience, either they're coming back or their friends and families coming to us. So, like yesterday I did the husband and wife together, you know, separate tablet the same day.
And a lot of times we do like sisters and friends, but that's the best, best referral in terms of returning investments. Is the, what amount followed by social media. And of course, there, you know, influencers are fine for the, the people that follow them, you know? So, I think you have to have a good website as well for, because people end up looking at your website and see what's going on.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that's a really good conduit to your website. I know. And this is very controversial to put your prices online and you're very transparent and you literally have the price list right there for everyone to see. And the smart thing I think you did. Cause I'm also not sure. I don't like when this whole industry gets down to price.
I don't love that if we commoditize this. Then anybody can do anything and that's not true. You know, your surgeons, you're not, there's a big difference between a surgeon and a nurse. So, I sometimes worry about that, but the way you did it, you did it in ranges. They're very realistic ranges. So, when you say something, a body part, it's like five to 9,000.
So, you give yourself lots of room there, but you also, and I love this part. You also say what's included and you include everything, nothing pisses off a patient more than this add on stuff, you know, like they thought it was going to be 5,000. Now you went over in surgery now with the garments. Now the meds now the bumpa.
And it's like, would you just give me a screen? So, when did you put prices on your website and how much did that change your lead generation?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: So, I want to talk about lead generation last, but the price then is so, you know, we go on vacation, you go on a hotel, you pay for internet, you pay for that stuff, or you go there, not a vacation on the Caribbean is an all-inclusive everything's included.
I came back and said, why can't we have been the all-inclusive plastic surgery? So, we made a sweet. And what happened was our prices. All of us looked higher than everybody else. So, we were worried about that for a while, but then people still understand, oh, you just paid price and you don't have to bring your wallet.
When you come through a post-op, everything everything's included and emitted. People will finally, they got it. Like it pay one, you come, you pay one price. So, we call it the all-inclusive plastic surgery service. You pay one price. It includes your, your surgery pre post post-op Intercare inter op post-op care and everything else.
So, you just come to the practice and then we made all limited. Bye on live there. Literally you can come to the practice and everyone, but we have scheduled appointment, but if you want more, you can come. There's no charge for anything. So, it becomes actually is more profitable because people are more comfortable with you and they refer their patients.
You're not going to lose money. You actually is peace of mind for the patient as well. And we also include a cosmetic show for them. To give him peace of mind. Thereβre any complications. So, is it total peace of mind? I think it's in one of your. Make it easy for a patient to book Alison to your top a lot, you know, thank
Catherine Maley, MBA: you.
Absolutely. And do not charge them more than they're expecting to pay. So many competitors of yours will charge extra when they go over in surgery. And I. But the patient doesn't, they don't under, they don't care. If you go over you, they, you told them it was going to take four hours. They don't care if it took five hours, that's on you.
And I just think in today's world, you have to be so careful with pricing and be transparent. I love, I love that. You said all in one, because it's really important that you put those two together. You have the ranges, but then right under it, you say, and these are all inclusive. That was the important part because they'll go on other consultations and that's when they start asking, oh, so this does this include this and they're oh, no, that would be extra.
And that's where it's like, I get it. I'm going to stay with Georgia plastic. They're being a lot more forthright about it. Did you notice though, that you got more calls from it or that your conversion rates were better when you were more transplant?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: It's the conversion rate when they're coming into the office, because, you know, typically the average patient would have done two or three consults with before they come see us smarter.
If I want to call us and they haven't been to other places, we encourage them to go to other person, come back to us. The reason is we know when the good other places they will notice the difference. First of all, the way we answer our phone is very unique. We have our office as, as a form, very unique. And when it comes to us, they feel more relaxed.
We saw, so we have a very transparent practice. So, they see everything that they paid for. Everything is itemized there's no, you know, exactly the, not the final number, that's it. There's no more fee. And if you go over, over in surgery in our surgery center, which we, we are right. You know, after so many years of surgery, you know, At Tommy talk is going to take you either.
You go over a little bit, but it's fine. Even if we go over, we don't charge them extra. So, it's peace of mind, plus, I mean, I like the fact that it just peace of mind. I think it's the key there.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, it also came out in your reviews. If you read your reviews, they comment on it all the time. They say his prices are very reasonable and there were no surprises.
So, I'm going to listen to the patients. They, they liked that kind of thing. That's what I think you're doing differently. You're actually listening to the patients and giving them what they want. But you know, the some of the patients, your demographic can be tough. Number one, you usually have, there could be a BMI issue.
What's your, what's your max.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Wow. You touched a sore subject there where I'm in Georgia and we love Georgia.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Fantastic. I couldn't live there. Yeah. I, I need to be horny. I stay alive. Skinny.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I know you guys a little skinny. We, we have. We'd love them that good grades, but we have to cut off at some point.
So, my BMI cross 40, 40 BMI. You got to be below 40 BMI. We try to keep it at 35, but sometimes, you know, 30 times six. Okay. Is that cutting corners? But it's a hard core of at 40, if you get close to 40. We do work with some weight loss doctors around that practice to help them get down to a, we call it life plus surgery for life because we talk about fat a lot in Georgia and what we do try and make them.
It's not just a liposuction. We want you to change your lifestyle. The average patient that comes up right now. That had liposuction or does something else, breast lift or tomato? We always talk about fab. We always talk to them about lifestyle changes and the average patient, and they end up losing weight after they meet us.
And we've documented that many times and they tell us that our audited.
Catherine Maley, MBA: You know what I would recommend. If you do need somebody to lose weight before you'll do surgery on them, I would at least give them a page of resources to help them. Even if you gave them, you know, there's a simple mobile app, something like lost it or lose it or something it's like it's, it really holds you accountable for what you're eating.
Just something like that to help them because there's nothing more. The frustrating and telling a patient, well, come back when you've lost
Dr. Stanley Okoro: 30 pounds, that that doesn't happen at all. No, we, we do have some colleagues who are practice practices around our practice. So, we actually refer them to a weight loss doctor.
Oh yeah. We have, they're given a referral to go see the person. And they call me, we have both medical, weight loss and surgical weight loss, not in the practice, but people that we've known for years they'll do a good job. A lot of our patients go there, they come back to us and sometimes those doctors refer patients.
So, it becomes a referral source as well. So, the patients have gone to them directly lose weight and they have loose skin. They refer. So, it is a win-win situation. That's fantastic with them business. They give us business. So, it works.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Regarding marketing. You're also a very good, I think you do such a good job with patient education.
I know you wrote a book on the Brazilian buttock lift. We all call it the BBL. Yeah. How has that helped you position yourself as especially.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: So as, as you know, that is in the water market and that's called authoritative marketing. So that when a patient goes to Amazon, they, they find my book. I mean, I become the expert.
So, if you, if you can read a book that makes you the expert in that. Period. So, like that book is the only book on Amazon, on president Bartlett for patients. Not for that. I wrote it for patients, not for doctors and because I noticed that there was nothing in there for them. So, the book was basically written to educate them before surgery and answered all of the questions that we normally get in, in the practice.
So that book has really helped at is really helping. Position us as the UN's Park, Alison at the Atlanta Metro area. When we travel overseas, people get the book and sometimes people show me the book during the consultation, you know, I give a lovely, a discount kind of get them going. So, it's good.
Catherine Maley, MBA: The secret there is to write about one body, part, one procedure, one body part too many surgeons miss that. And they just talk about what they do and they become the Jack of all trades. And then we can do this and we can I, I would actually have a series and it's not about having a 300-page book.
It's about having FAA choose with really killer before and after photos, call it a day, get it on Amazon. It helps your SEO so much, especially, I don't know if you've heard about all the privacy issues going on where apple and Google and Facebook are fighting about data. No, one's going to share data anymore and I'm also being sued a lot for it from the government.
So, there's a self-serving aspect to this, but also just for self-preservation, you know privacy is, is in. Yeah, data sharing is out. So, guess what they're saying, SEO is back in again, because the other channels are getting strangled. So, you can't target like you used to be able to. So now that now the ball went back over to SEO and now, they want organic.
So, you've done a great job with content. But I love that you just picked one body part. Good
Dr. Stanley Okoro: for you.
Well, one we're working on the second one now. I wanted to talk about lead generation. This is something that I don't know if you notice on the website is different for our website. We, I think the whole industry I'm going out on a limb here, but I think I can talk about it because I haven't, I've had.
A year and half are parents watching this. So, we changed the whole lead gen from a pathway. We not on that collect leads in our practice. We do not, we do not. So, when you go to my website, they only lead that email convict is when we have a chat that if you want to chat, you can call it, lead that way.
But we don't allow people to live lives in a website because we've gone to part like it was. So, with my, my team told me that they're tired of chasing down leads. So, we, I thought about it, say, Which is what, what if the chase us turn the table? So, I did an experiment a year and a half ago. It was a bet because I knew I was fully booked, so I could have some room to play.
So, we remove the lead. They give us your name, your phone number, email, we'll call you. My office was spending hours and hours calling people that not really interested. So, we changed it. I'm going to be talking about it in an upcoming session. I'm going to give you a hand. So, what we did was patients can put the information, they can send it.
If you come to us and you want to consult us, we give so much information on the website. By the time you finish that stuff, hopefully we'll answered all your questions. We don't want to chase you. If you're serious, pay for consultation on. We only get the lead when they pay for consultation and then we'll call them and give them a date and time.
So, we buy a year and a half to stop collecting the eggs and the ones that come through at once as. So now that has helped me manage our pay our staff time when none of them are chasing ghosts. So, I think our industry really, really need to rethink how we do. I know it's been; I really don't like the word lead generation is great, but if you talk to a lot of plastics or if they really have a problem chasing down, It's really, it takes a lot of time.
You can have 10 leads. The only one answer the phone. So, my, my team was getting frustrated, so we had to do something. So, what are your thoughts about that? Something new. We've had it for a year and a half and it's working for us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I agree with you with the leads have gotten questionable with the quality because of just the way things are in today's world.
The internet is fairly, it's a flaky group of people. It's the public. And you have no idea what stage they're at. You're following somebody who doesn't even remember they called you or, or form. They don't even know what you're talking about. And then you're chasing them. For sure. I would automate quite a bit of that.
Here's where the problem. You surgeons want to be busy. You want that phone ringing, you want your reception area full, and that's why quality and quantity get mixed up. You know you get this false sense of safety. When, when you have quantity, the, the issue in today's world is what does that quantity costing you in terms of staff over time, staff frustration, staff turnover, because there's nothing worse.
I used to be in outside sales forever. I used to knock on doors. Like 12 years and God, it's exhausting. If you, if you're not good with that and you don't like rejection on most people don't. So that's where the problem comes in. So, I love automating a lot more of this, and I think you're doing great with that.
Especially your conversion rate must be killer. If they're plopping down the one 50 consults, be
good for you. And what's your.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: What, so that's a, that's a great question. So, since it's so funny, when we increased the consultation fee, my conversion rate went up as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA: It seems so paradoxical,
Dr. Stanley Okoro: but it's crazy. It's totally crazy because, so my, so we have. Almost, I don't want to say zero no-show because if we have a no-show for consult is usually from something happened because they've already paid two 50.
Right? So, my no-show rate is less than, I want to say 3% of them that we, when somebody pays two 50 for a virtual consult, by the way, Yeah, majority of our consoles now are virtual. So, you know, we make a flip last year, but we were doing consults for our international, who are doing virtual consoles for our international patients, even before the pandemic.
So, when pandemic hit, it was easy for us to just go almost live virtual. So, two 50 and. There's literally zero no-show conversion rate for me is between 60 and 75%. And the ones, the ones that don't book now, what, so I do call them back when somebody call them out, why they've single, most reason that the dumb call, the dumb book is the can't afford it because we are more expensive than the other plastic soda.
Catherine Maley, MBA: I love what you're doing, but this is not for the faint of heart. And you do not want to do this until you have a very good name and reputation in your area, and you have a nice following and, and you're out there because you have not been hiding. On Instagram and Facebook and you're doing live and you're doing so much content.
And so that's why I think the patients are feeling comfortable enough. Like don't, they feel like they know you already, when you meet this.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: The funny thing is sometimes I walk in the exam room; they think I'm a celebrity. So, I know I'm not a plastic, plastics, celebrities, but they feel like they'd be watching you on TV or.
Instagram or whatever they feel like they know you. So, I think we are using the social proof to our advantage. I agree with what you said. You have to also look at your, your environment. We've always charged consult fee and increasing the consult fee. We had room. I, I. I will say, so we did it because we felt comfortable.
We have enough food to make my adjustments wherever we do that. So, like when we did it, I was booked six months ahead of time. So even if no, the phone wasn't ringing, we had rooms that make some adjustments. So, but my team. Very happy that don't have to call people anymore and get done, you know, in higher is you said you've been doing those calls.
They were happy. They want Kim to work in the morning. There's an email of patients who have already paid for consultation. All they have to do is call them to give them dates. The money is in the practice. And then we have. Less. So, we decrease the one TT, but we increase the quality of care of the patient.
So that, that was a game changer for us.
Catherine Maley, MBA: What, what made you do that? Like, are you reading something or you have mentors? I know you have, you had me as a consultant, so I gave you a few ideas. Where are you getting all of this? Because this is very unusual for a surgeon to think like you do a, where are you getting that gross minus.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Well, I mean, thanks to you. I watch a lot of your videos. You're very intelligent. You're very smart. You get this industry. I think you give a lot of information. I, you are my consultant and we've had in the past, so I'd love information from you and you can. To feed us with information, but I also travel a lot.
I speak with other consultants as well. Like I told you, I was born into. I was the only person in my family who went to medicine. So, and plus, I told you, I mean, I'm in school now for MBA, right?
So, I am getting my MBA next year from university of Georgia. So that helped a lot I think is a combination of everything and I'm just having the vision and we asked our internet provider, our website, people how to do it. They'll walk the, walk us through that. Shallow shout out to crystal clear.
They did help us design that and it is worked out for us so far. And I love it. I don't think I'm going to go back to the lead generation. I think for me, I think. I'm going to promote that a lot. We need to say. Cause I think it really changed. It was a game changer for us. I actually was a game changer.
There's not in like BNI. Looking at your email and getting the emails com we use PayPal, no financial interest there, but getting the seeing that people are paying while you are at home and sleeping, or it's just every, almost every hour. I get on a lot from email, from PayPal that somebody just paid.
I mean, you can be on a Friday night people on my website, a desk, nobody asked me. I mean, can you beat that?
Catherine Maley, MBA: No, that's why their internet marketing is so interesting. That's why I came into it because they said you could sit on the beach. I'm a red head, so I don't sit on the beach, but they said, you can just have things on the web.
And then you just look at your email and you watch the money come in. And I thought really, is that true? I know. And it is. But a lot goes into that. That doesn't just happen by magic, you know?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Yeah, so that's, that's what's happening. So, when they come to work on Monday, they'll call all the people who have paid for consultation the whole weekend.
And now I say this for those that, so those that don't want to pay, you can see incomplete transactions, those the called your working hours. That's where my, my, my team have to walk to convert those. But so, we, we don't collect. If we don't chase you, they chase us. That's the key I was trying to get.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Congratulations. I know your website. If anyone wants to get to know you better, your website is GeorgiaPlastic.com, and do you have any tips or any last words of encouragement to the surgeons out there?
Dr. Stanley Okoro: I think.
So just like, like me, we need to get consultants. Like you we've been in the business for a long time. Get advice you can do by yourself. And having a website is more, it's not enough. You need to work on it. I do. Right. The contents of my website. I add contents. So, if you're new at this, I'll add a content every week, every month, something will, what would your, your WhatsApp provider walk with a consultant?
Go to meetings, expose yourself to business. The business of plastic surgery is more, more than just being a good surgeon. You have to know how to market yourself. So that's what I've done. I've learned as much. Now I dive into business school to take it to the next
Catherine Maley, MBA: level. Well, you've done a great job of that.
And as you can see from the sign behind him, it says the best dad. So, he's also the best dad to four kids. He has a lovely wife, a beautiful practice Dr. Okoro you are kicking it. Good for you.
Sure. And I hope to see you in a meeting someday, every time I'm planned, I've planned one, they go virtual. So, I'm hoping I I'm hoping to see you next year, I guess so.
Dr. Stanley Okoro: Stay safe. I hope to see you soon.
Catherine Maley, MBA: Absolutely. And that is it for us on this episode of Beauty and the Biz. If you haven't already, please go to Beauty and the Biz and subscribe on iTunes or all the others. And if you've got any questions or feedback for myself or for Dr. Okoro, just leave them on my website at www.Catherinemaley.com or feel free to DM me @CatherineMaleyMBA on Instagram.
Take care and we'll talk again soon.
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherine's FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Hello,
Hereβs an interesting 2021plastic surgery marketing trend that affects youβ¦
βThere will be no more silver bullets,
everyone will have to optimize for marginal gains.β
In the past, you could pick one or two main marketing channels (your silver bullets) and live off of them to get you the cosmetic patient leads you needed to run a successful practice.
Not anymore. There is just too much noise in the world today.
Look at the list I came up with within one minute, in no particular order and Iβm sure there are plenty more:
β
Website Design
β
Real Self
β
Link-Building
β
YouTube
β
Practice Newsletter
β
TV Ads or PR
β
Radio Ads or PR
β
Cable Ads or PR
β
Public speaking
β
Retargeting Banner Ads
β
Direct mail
β
Email
β
Texting
β
Patient Events
β
Press Releases
β
SEO
β
PPC
β
Articles
β
Blog
β
Directories
β
Doctor Referrals
β
Alliances
β
Fundraisers
β
Billboards
β
Print Ads
β
Banners
β
Social Media Posting
β
FB/IG/Linkedin Ads
β
Chat Bot
Crazy right? You will never have enough time, money or energy to use all of these cosmetic patient marketing channels.
But thatβs not all. There are also too many technology choices that need to be considered carefully so you donβt end up with a coat-hanger ;-)
And, not to pile on but there are also too many generational differences since you may be catering to patients in their 20βs up to patients in their 70βs.
So, what do you do? How do you make sense out of all these variables, so you invest your resources wisely?
My advice is to know your numbers so you can make intelligent decisionsβ¦
READ MORE HERE
Dedicated to getting you more patients and profits β
Catherine Maley, MBA
P.S. One marketing channel that will always be a winner is your current patients who return and refer their friends.
Click Here for a simple solution to grow this channel
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at: www.CatherineMaley.com Or DM me on Instagram
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
π DON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWS π
ββ‘οΈ Robert Singer, MD FACS - Former President, The Aesthetic Society
ββ‘οΈ Grant Stevens, MD FACS - Former President, ASAPS
β‘οΈ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS - Former President, AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website β’ Blog β’ ββPodcasts β’ iTunes Subscribe β’ Videocasts
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Transcript:
Know Your Numbers
Catherine Maley, MBA
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits today's "Beauty and the Biz" episode is called, Know your numbers.
And we're going to start with an interesting 2021 plastic surgery marketing trend that affects you and how. There will be no more silver bullets. Everyone will have to optimize for marginal gains. So, in the past you could pick one or two main marketing channels, which were your silver bullets, and you could live off of those to get you the cosmetic patient leads.
You needed to run a successful practice, but that's just not the way it is anymore. There's just too much noise in the world. So as an example, I came up with this list of marketing channels and I did this within a minute and they're in no particular order. And I'm sure there are plenty more, but just listen to this.
You can do website design, Real Self Q&A, link building, YouTube videos, practice newsletter, TV ads, or radio ads or cable ads, public speaking, you can retarget banner ads. You can do direct mail, email texting, patient events, press releases. You can do public relations, you know, PR SEO. PPC, you can write articles, blog.
You can be in directories. Doctor referrals, alliances. You can participate in fundraisers or buy billboards or print ads or web internet, banner. Social media posting Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn ads, Chat bots. I mean, isn't that crazy? You are never going to have enough time, money, or energy to use all of these cosmetic patient marketing channels, but that's not all there are also way too many technology choices that need to be considered carefully.
So, you don't end up with the proverbial. Coat hanger right. And then not to. But there are also too many generational differences since you may be catering to patients in their twenties all the way into their seventies. So, what do you do? How do you make sense out of all these variables? So, you invest your resources wisely.
So, here's my advice. Know your numbers, the answers you are looking for are in your numbers. When you collect and review your day. You have such a better picture of what is driving your success, but this cannot be anecdotal. Take the emotion out of it, and just look at the real data that doesn't lie. So, the fastest and easiest way to follow your successes first, you know?
So, in other words, follow the money. There's no need to get all fancy and go off on a tangent at this time. Just review your revenues, where they are currently coming from, and then go back for more. And then you can always do more later. But right now, just stick to this. So, for example, revenues by procedure, start by running this report called revenues by procedure.
Now this is going to show you, which of your procedures are more profitable and which should be re-evaluated since they don't bring in the revenues worth the effort. Sometimes. Frankly, most of the time less is more and that's the way to go drop the busy work that is not bringing in the revenues. So, you can redirect your focus to the procedures that are.
So, for example, I did like surgical pie chart and I broke out the revenues by procedure and it was showing that the big hits were injectable. Cool sculpting and facelifts. Now that's good to know when they're considering their marketing plan. However, their skincare was the loser at 1% of their revenues.
Yet I watched so many practices put a ton of effort into this, thanks to their skincare reps. But is that the best use of your resources given the. Maybe, maybe not. Now another report I love is revenues by referral source. This tells you how your patients hear about you. Now, this data is crucial to know, so you can allocate your time and money to only those marketing channels that are directly attracting new patients to you.
Again, this cannot be anecdotal. It's too easy for your ego to trip you up here. You may love to see your name in lights, but just be sure it's bringing you results. However, the referral source is not so cut and dry in today's technical age. Now, what I mean by that is when you ask a prospective patient who calls your office, how they heard about you, they'll oftentimes say something like the internet or.
However, as they get to know you better and open up the answer can change too. We'll actually a girlfriend mentioned you, so then they checked out your Instagram and that led them to your website. And that's why they said the internet. If that happens, just be sure to update your data for. So also, with that practice that I ran this report for, they were at about 50, 50 internets versus relationships via current patients returning for more and referrals from patients and spas.
And so that's good to know that. Half external, half internal, but I also noticed the social media was only 1% of their revenues and magazine ads were 0%. So, if I were consulting with them, I would probably recommend they take the magazine ad budget and then reallocate it to investing in. And quite frankly, I have a club for that called the kiss club.
So that was a shameless plug. But if you're interested in that, go to kiss loyalty club.com I would also recommend they outsource the social media unless the surgeon gets serious about participating in the content because that's a whole. Podcasts, but if the surgeon's not participating in the, staff's not but you have to be on social media, then you might as well just, you know, outsource it because you have to be there, but maybe it's not worth the time and effort on your end.
Now, there are a lot more numbers to know, but you see how knowing just these two data points will give you such good Intel to make better business decisions. And what you're trying to do is decide where to invest your time and money on marketing, certain procedures, and then which marketing channels do you use to get to.
Patients who want those certain procedures. Okay. So now let's talk about data tracking tools, because in order for you to accurately track data, there are lots of tools and technology available today. That's the good news. If we have to fiddle around with all this technology, at least it's collecting data.
Now your practice software is the control tower that collects all the data for our practice. Just please be sure you choose a CRM. CRM is customer relationship management. Just be sure you choose one. That is data friendly when it comes to entering data, as well as retrieving. Because oftentimes they can enter the data, but jug can't even get the darn stuff out of the computer.
So, you really needed to have a format that tells you vital information and that's the reporting. Now, the good news with all this technology at your fingertips is that it really is tracking all your clicks and links. So, get familiar with Google and social media analytics. They have lots and lots of data for you.
Also, phone calls and lead tracking platforms are super helpful to track data or at least use Google sheets to collect data that can be updated regularly by all parties involved. Now I'll leave you with this motivating quote, money is attracted to. So happy tracking. Of course, if you could use help with this, please reach out to me at www.CatherineMaley.com.
Okay. That wraps up this episode. So please do me a favor and subscribe to "Beauty and the Biz". So, you don't miss new episodes coming up. And if you feel so inclined, please share this with your staff and colleagues, and then you can always follow me on Instagram or DM me there @catherinemaleymba.
Thanks so much. Hope that was helpful. And we'll talk again.
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherine's FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Interview with Dr. Angela Sturm
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Todayβs guest is Dr. Angela Sturm.
Sheβs a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Bellaire, Texas, right outside of Houston.
During her medical training, Dr. Sturm received numerous awards for surgical excellence, including the top medical student research prize from the National Academy of Otolaryngology.
Dr. Sturm has co-authored and published numerous medical journal articles on head and neck surgical techniques, as well as facial plastic surgical techniques and is active in the American Academy of Facial Plastic Surgeons.
She has also been involved with Harris County Medical Society, TransForward, Leadership Houston, D-tag Tattoo Removal Program and the Fittest Doctor Challenge.
She supports Aid to Victims of Domestic Abuse and provides free care through the Face Foundation.
Topics Covered:
Business:
Did you come from a family of surgeons or how did you choose to be a FPS?
Your journey to solo practice.
Why Houston? So competitive.
Pros and Cons of going solo?
Surgical suite or surgical center?
Hiring Staff tips and issues.
Business tips.
Marketing:
Surgical vs. Non-surgical.
Facetite to facelift? β Morpheus micro frequency with PRP β Eyebrow transplant.
Exosomes (xosomes) β hydra needle β Hollywood peel.
How do you differentiate yourself? βValue Addβ.
Effective marketing channels? What's working/What's not?
Social media efforts
Mindset/Personal:
How do you stay positive about the future?
Surgeon, mom, pandemic, baby, medical society, active in community β how do you do it?
Words of wisdom for other practices?
Everyone that wraps it up for this session. Please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz, so you don't miss any other episodes. And if you've got any questions or feedback for me, you can certainly leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can always DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much and we'll talk again soon.
Visit Dr. Sturm's website at:
https://DrAngelaSturm.com
Transcript:
Interview with Dr. Angela Sturm
By Catherine Maley
Catherine Maley, MBA
Hello, and welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley author of "Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying" as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now I have a very special guest today.
Her name is Angela Sturm, Dr. Angela Sturm. She's a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Bellaire, Texas, which is right outside of Houston. Now during her medical training, Dr. Sturm received numerous awards for surgical excellence, including the top medical student research prize from the national academy of otolaryngology.
Now, Dr. Sturm has coauthored and published numerous medical journal articles. On heading next surgical techniques, as well as facial plastic surgical techniques and is active in the American Academy of Facial Plastic Surgeons, which has a conference coming up that we'll talk about. Now, she's also been involved with the, her community as in the Harris County Medical Society.
Transforward Leadership Houston. "D-Tag" tattoo removal program and the fittest doctor challenge. Well, that's interesting. And she supports "Aid to victims of domestic abuse" and provides free care through "The base foundation". Welcome to "Beauty in the Biz", Dr. Sturm... It's a pleasure to have you.
Dr. Angela Sturm
Thank you so much for having me I'm excited to be here.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Absolutely. So, the first thing I want to ask is how in the world do you become a facial plastic surgeon? Because that's so specific, like, did you grow up with surgeons or how does a little girl end up saying, I want to be official plastics.
Dr. Angela Sturm
No, it's kind of funny because I grew up in a small town in west Texas and my dad was a farmer and my mom didn't work until I was in high school and she sells Aflac.
And so, it's very different from everything I grew up with. And I went for the longest time. My family knew what I did, but maybe not exactly which was okay. Um, but I. I knew growing up there that I wanted to be in medicine because it was a small town, it was rural the medicine. There was okay. But probably not as good as it could have been, you know?
And my grandmother was always sick and she was a diabetic, but never took care of herself. So, we were in and out of the hospital. So just kind of seeing that side of it. And it's still this story. Hopefully funny. Um, whenever I went to the doctor is a high schooler. I had allergies and my, you know, congestion and all that kind of stuff.
And so, I'm telling the doctor, oh, and my usual Louis swollen. Cause I looked it up and I'm old enough that it was in an encyclopedia because I didn't Google. And the guy looked at me like I had three heads and I was like, man, this guy can do it, do this, you know,
I can do this. Like I could be a doctor now, as I decided that that's what I kind of wanted to do and looked at doing research in medicine. And then on a Saturday afternoon in a lab in college, decided, you know what? I just really want to go into medicine. I like people, I like being around people and, you know, and talking to them and, uh, hanging out with rats in the lab.
Wasn't. My thing. Uh, so, um, when at the med school thinking I was gonna do, ER, because that was what was big at the time in other shows so popular and it seemed exciting. And I volunteered in ER, and then got in there and decided maybe that wasn't quite the right fit until I watched some surgery and was like, okay, That's the coolest thing I've ever seen.
You know, either you fall in love with it or you don't. I think, and I was like, that's it. I want to do surgery and was thinking maybe OB-GYN just because I really liked the women empowerment part of it and, you know, affecting the lifestyle and being able to talk to them a lot different. Parts of their lives.
And then I did an anti-rotation and watched them make an ear out of a rib and was like, that's it I'm. So, um, you know, you come home and say, how was your day? Oh, I'm making an ear, you know, no big deal. Like you obviously have the cute, but you know, the coolest job. So. Kind of got to more interested in it.
Um, and decided I really, you know, it was kind of all the things that I wanted. I don't want it to be able to talk to people about who they are, how they see themselves, how the world sees them, you know, and, and what all those things mean, you know, as a. So personal about your ethnicity and your gender and, and how people see you and what you want to convey to people.
You know, if you want to feel useful or look you fall. And you're like, I, I feel this way and I look in the mirror and it's a different way and, and be able to be along that journey with them. So, itβs kind of all the pieces came together, but yeah, this is it. This is kind of what I want to do. And honestly, this sounds crazy, but.
I didn't know anybody that looked like me or was like me that did this. And it was almost that challenge of like, okay, I know I can do X, Y, and Z, and then this, maybe I want to do it, but I'm not a hundred percent sure I can, but I like the challenge of bliss. Let's do it. And then if that doesn't work out, I know I have a lot of good backups, so it'll be fine and maybe a different perspective, but it's like, let's do it.
Why not? You know,
Catherine Maley, MBA
Good for you now, the next question. You and next, this happens a lot. I think you go through rotation and you realize, wait a second. I love this part of surgery. You know, first I love surgery, then I love this part of surgery. But so, you go through that, then you go through residency. Then you go through fellowship.
How in the world that now, what was the journey for you? Did you then, how do you enter this marketplace? Do, do you go out on your own? Did you go through university first? Did you join a big practice? How did you get to the private solo practice?
So, my,
Dr. Angela Sturm
my path is probably a little bit different than a lot of people is.
I joined my fellowship director right after finishing my fellowship and I kind of looked around at different jobs and I didn't idea of what I wanted to do, even when I was interviewing for fellowship. I knew I wanted to still have a foot in academics and then be in private practice, which is sort of a hard thing to do and negotiate.
And, you know, I knew I wanted to be involved sort of politically, but be able to have my practice. And it was, it seemed like the best fit at the time, you know? Cause he had a lot of that going on and it was my mentor. So, it was a very comfortable place to be, you know? And so that's where I was for a while.
Trying to figure out what my practice was and where it was going to look like. Um, and then in the end, It ended up the best move for me to just go out on my own and have my own practice. And, you know, when sometimes you make those opportunities, so I'm working on different ways to be in academics. I still am.
I still have my toes in academics and still have my practice. And, and now I'm able to make a lot of the decision I need to make and do the things I want to do and be able to, you know, change and pivot and everything I need to do at the moment. The. Has worked out really well, so, so far.
Catherine Maley, MBA
And if you didn't have enough courage, you also decide to open private practice in Houston of all places, which has to be almost the most competitive place on the planet, you know, next to Miami.
New York and Beverly Hills and all that. But how did you wind up? I know you said you came from Texas, but it sounds like a small town in Texas with the fellowship also in Texas.
Dr. Angela Sturm
Yeah. The fellowship was in Houston. So that's what made sense at the time to stay. And then. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like, you know, a little bit, but not enough to be a scared sprayable you should be
Catherine Maley, MBA
a lot to do with this.
So, you wouldn't do it. If you knew as much as, you know
Dr. Angela Sturm
how scary it really was. Like, you'd probably overthink it a bit now, but that was at that point, I had done med school, residency fellowship here. And so, this was kind of my home to start with. And then. Seem like, you know, being in the community and, and getting to know people, you know, there was, there was still a lot of work for everybody, you know, there's, there are, there's a plastic surgeon on every corner.
I mean, it really is, you know, but there's also a lot of people that are having work done. I mean, this was the birthplace of breast augmentation, right? So, this is, you know, people have it done. And I, I liked that it sorts of fit with my aesthetic, that a lot of my patients, we want to get work done. We, we don't want everybody to know, you know, I want it to be supernatural.
We want it to be, you know, if anything on the conservative side and you can always continue to tweak things, but I like that the patients sort of fit my personality and I felt comfortable, you know, with them and with, and with the community, I kind of fell in love with the community.
Catherine Maley, MBA
For sure. So, regarding the business side, um, setting up a practice, there's so many, um, bumps along the way, things you learn on the fly, uh, lost a lot of wasted money, usually some mistakes make.
Um, can you just think of some, uh, a couple of things that you did that you wish you had done differently? Or not at all. Um,
Dr. Angela Sturm
I think I should have been more confident in my knowledge of my practice and what I wanted it to look like and what I wanted it to be like, you know? Cause I think whenever you start out, you have that fear of, oh, there's all these decisions to make and there's all this to do.
And um, and you, you can work with different people and get their input and that's. Really helpful. But I think in the beginning I may be leaned on people a little too much. Cause I would, like you said, I would set things up and, you know, set up the supplies with this company, knowing that maybe I wanted to go with a different one, but I'm going to give it a go.
And then it ended up not working out and I have to change. You know, and we all do you make decisions and change all the time. So, I think it's taking that input and then knowing exactly what you want to do. Cause I, I knew, but then I, I probably should have just trusted my gut a little bit more. You know?
Catherine Maley, MBA
Isn't that the truth? Just trust your gut.
Do what want to do because it's your practice, your personality, and that's, who's going to be attracted to you. If you get a designer in there, I've seen this so often you get a designer in there and it's their vision of you. It doesn't depict your personality. And then things are just wonky.
You know, the patients can feel that too, when things are not congruent, you know, your personality is not congruent with the aesthetics of your practice. I've seen that over and over. Um, so, so you're in Houston and you have to start praying. Was there no non-compete clause? You didn't have to sign anything.
Dr. Angela Sturm
I was very lucky that, um, location-wise, I couldn't be in the same building with, she was very generous about that. Cause I, everyone else, I know it was a more difficult situation, so I could be anywhere, you know, and then just start on my own and obviously not take anything from that practice, which is totally understandable and absolutely, you know, The way to do it.
You know what? I was really lucky.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Okay. When it came to buying equipment, because you're a facial plastic surgeon and you're young, and I would think you'd have to build up the surgical practice and it would be easier to build probably the non-surgical I'm guessing. So, you, did you bring on a bunch of lasers or how did you buy equipment?
How did you decide what you needed?
Dr. Angela Sturm
It's so funny because I always say, well, I'm not going to have a bunch of lasers.
I did get them, but it was all things that I needed to fit into to my practice say, okay, well, I have this surgical option. I have this, you know, I had, you know, these people in this demographic that I don't have a surgical option for. I need a non-surgical option. I need something for brown spots. I need something for redness.
I need, you know, To the questions that my patients are asking me, you know, to be able to take care of these. And so, I found companies that I really like, and I believe in, and I like working with them. Um, and the products that that are delivering, you know, and it's, it's always hard in the beginning to find the things that work for you.
And. You know, and know what you're buying, because it is a big investment, you know, but I think the company piece of it has been a lot for me because they've been able to support me and be able to get me, you know, the clinical information that I need and be able to make the treatments even better. And the way.
I want them to be in, to be able to deliver for my patients, you know, and feel comfortable with the purchase and knowing that I will be able to pay those off and that it will be profitable and all the things that you need that equipment rather than just sitting in a room somewhere.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, I hope those companies are offering marketing support.
I know most of them do nowadays and they just have to, if you're going to make that huge investment, they need to back you on that. Um, I love to buy, well, I haven't bought anything, but I love to buy things that they have already put a ton of consumer education into it, because that shouldn't be on your dime.
You know, you shouldn't have to educate the patients on that. You should educate the patients on your part. Like, you know, you have a problem. I have a solution for your pain, but they need to be doing the consumer awareness. That's. Anyway. Um, so yeah, so now I'm back to business. Now you most likely have never managed people before.
So, any very big challenge for surgeons because surgeons want to be surgeons and they want to hide in the, or, and that's where they're comfortable. And then all of a sudden you are now. The leader and you have to hire people, motivate them, train them, onboard them, um, get them drinking your Kool-Aid. You know, how, how big of a deal was that for you?
Was it an innate skill you had; did you have to learn it? Are you still learning it? How'd that go with you and staff?
Dr. Angela Sturm
I think it's something we all continue to learn, you know? Cause it's dealing with people and personalities and you know, definitely not anything I learned in med school or residency or, you know, cause you sort of manage people in residency, but it is not the same, you know, it's, it does not necessarily, you know, translate the same.
So, um, it was something that I read a lot on. I would get books about. I would, you know, attend leadership. Seminars. And, you know, I look at different ways of looking at leadership and things that I can use to, like you said, motivate staff and make sure everybody is as looking at this as like a team project and that we're in this together.
And, um, Looking at how other people do things. And then also, you know, I joined some like women, entrepreneur groups and women in business and, and things that everyone else does, everything else like nobody else has in medicine. And so, I can learn from them, things that they do, that maybe they've been doing this for a long time.
And so, take those tips into what we're doing. Marketing wise, HR wise, dealing with people, managing people, and always trying to learn from the people around me, like what's working and not working.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Have you had success hiring people? Are you good at that? Or have you had a few hiccups in nightmares?
Dr. Angela Sturm
Well, we so far so good.
I opened this practice in the beginning of 2020 and everybody's doing great. And, um, I'm very happy with everybody. We have, I think we have a great team. Um, I. Yeah, like I said, it's the beginning of 2020. So, so far, it's been good and that's been the way that I looked at it as, okay, we're starting, you know, this is where we're at.
This is the growth mindset that we have and make sure everybody has that same, you know, and this is where we're going, and this is what I want. This is your piece of it, you know? And so. We kind of, we make sure everything is everyone's involved. And so, every big decision, as far as, okay, we're going to do this with the practice, like everybody's in that discussion and they get their input into it.
And so, it doesn't feel like something is just kind of put on you of, oh, we're doing this down. And I'm like, well, I do. No that, you know, and so we do try to make everyone, so everyone has a vote and has a voice. And, um, and it that's helpful for me too, because maybe there's something that I haven't thought about or thought about it.
And that way that they're able to bring to the table and especially, you know, with like the laser specialist and the institution, it is something that they're going to be doing. I want their input, you know, Before we implement anything because it's hard to sell something if you don't really, you know, if someone's like here.
So, this one, like I don't okay. I don't know what that is, you know, rather than, oh, I really believe in this. This is great. I love this product, this machine, or, you know, that's, that's so much more of a natural. A natural thing for them.
Catherine Maley, MBA
I think it's so important to turn this into a team. It's not you against them.
It's us, it's us. And we, you know, because they have to execute all of this. And I love when the surgeon can be the visionary and, and give the, the team okay. Team. Here's what. Here's where I'm seeing this practice going and I need your help building it. So please, I love brainstorming. I just, I think I know everything until I brainstorm with others and think, oh my God, you went.
That's a great idea. That's a great idea. And you never expected to come from the receptionist. Who thought of that? Like, um, they have, everybody has really good ideas when they're involved. You know, you say it gets easier. Boy. If you involve them early on there, you're going to get a lot more participation down the road. For sure.
Dr. Angela Sturm
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, let's talk about non, alright. Last thing about business. Just give me one, one piece of advice that you would have. Done differently had you, if you could do it over again, what would you have done differently?
Dr. Angela Sturm
I would probably gone up on my own sooner. Oh, okay. I tried to make a deal work that didn't work, you know, and we've all been there.
It's business. It's the way that it is, you know, and you really want it to work. And I think, you know, I, I put everything I had into that and then it was longer down the line until I can do my own thing. So, I probably would have.
Done my own thing a little bit earlier,
Catherine Maley, MBA
you know, so many surgeons call me and say, I'm in the university.
I hate it. Um, our I'm in a big practice. I hate it. And I just, I just can't jump. And I know they're calling me for motivation and there's no, there's no easy way to do that. Your ha well, here's what I think ends up happening when you're in enough pain. You finally jumped, you have to wait to get to that pain point, or is there anything people can do to get there faster?
So, they don't waste a year dreading, you know, dreading going to the office that they don't want to go to new tips.
Dr. Angela Sturm
I think it doesn't have to be as scary as it seems, you know, like we have this idea of, okay, you have to go out and you have to have your own office and your own staff and you have to start from the beginning and you have to have all this stuff.
And it's so scary. And you know, and in the months between, when I left that other practice to, when I opened up here, I subleased a space from another doctor. I had one employee. I had minimal overhead, you know, and cause we opened in January and in March, the pandemic hit and. We had to close down. And so even if something like that happened, we were okay.
You know, I knew that we were going to be okay because my overhead was not that high. You know what I have to meet to make sure I'm okay is a low bar. And if I can start with that and then, you know, build from there, once you get comfortable and you get more patients, you know, you don't have. The stress of, okay, well, I have to support my staff and I have to get this and I have to make the, this lease at this giant office and this, you know, it doesn't have to be that from the beginning, you know, you can, you can make it what you want.
You know, and I, I would sublease, I think it's at least two clinic days. And then one day I could just be there and call patients. And the other days I would work on the other aspects of the business, which was actually really nice to be able to work on the business. In the beginning, you know, and not in it.
And then you're not doing all the things you need to do to get it set up, to get the groundwork laid, you know? And, um, and then it's not as scary, you know, say, okay, well, this is my overhead. And I, I know I can make that, you know, I know I'm going to be okay. And then, and then build up to whatever you want it to be.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, when you got started now, everyone keeps in mind. She just did this less than what, two years ago. Um, how in the world do you start from scratch? Where are these patients coming from? And I'm going to assume you've done some, I assume ENT work plus cosmetic. Are you, are you juggling those two to pay the bills?
Dr. Angela Sturm
So, I'm very lucky that I have always been in the place that I could do facial plastics from the beginning. So. That's not everybody's situation. You know, people do it all the time where they do ENT and facial classics. But I said just lucky, the plant that I took, that I've been able to do that. Um, and the, the con about that is that it takes longer to build, you know, and in that time where.
Um, where you have days where maybe you're not seeing as many patients, then, then I would go out and do things in the community. And that's especially pre pandemic. That's a lot of how I built my practice because even being in another practice, I had to do the hustle. I had to go out there and meet people and shake the hands I had to, you know, go to meetings, go to breakfast, you know, do all the things, get the social media started, do the website.
Like I was doing all of that anyway, within. And so, it finally clicked. Like let's
Catherine Maley, MBA
stay on that for a minute because um, most people in today's world have lost that hustle and grind aspect of things. This isn't just going to be handed to you on a silver platter. You have to go out into the community and let them know you're there.
So could you just specifically say. What does that look like? Like how many days a week, or, or who did you visit or what worked the best? Because everyone has to know this. There's no magic to this. There it's hard work and networking, you know?
Dr. Angela Sturm
Right. And it doesn't matter to your point. Like it doesn't matter.
And from what I've seen, you know, if you're in a group in a. Uh, practice with another person or whatever. Like you have to get out there and you have to do it. You just have to hustle because people come and see a plastic surgeon. They usually don't go to see a practice. And then I have it for certain things.
But for facial plastics, it was definitely like they went to see a surgeon. So, I would spend time, like I joined a couple of breakfasts. That we're networking for different entrepreneurs. You know, one that was associated with my college, one that was female entrepreneurs, you know, just different ones that you can just seek out and join.
And that was really the best thing is I found the more you can personally get to know people, they get to know you and they trust you, and then they'll be more willing to come in. You know, you can go speak at one of those and that's fine. And maybe you get a couple of patients out of that, but if they really get to know.
Then be like, oh yeah, they'll refer their friends. And you know, and so that has been a really good thing for me is to be able to get involved in, you know, in these networking groups and then get involved in things like leadership, Houston, where I get to know people that are doing all kinds of exciting things, you know, people with all kinds of aspirations.
To be on city council and have these non-profits. And so, I'm involved in what they're doing, you know, with supporting them with their fundraising and supporting them with their, you know, their nonprofits and, and being able to meet more people that way. And so. Kind of putting yourself out there and meeting them.
And, and yet at the beginning it was, it was a lot, you know, and you can choose how much you do, but I, I was going to go get it, you know, and it was four or five days a week. I was doing something. But if you know, my practice wasn't as busy at that time. So, I had the time to do it. No, also didn't have two kids, so
Catherine Maley, MBA
we're going to get to them too. I don't know how you're doing all that, but I just hope everyone's hearing that. You need to figure out, you know, there's a saying, um, your net worth is your network and it's so, it's so true. Um, life is about relationships, especially in today's world, um, where you can't count on a lot of the marketing things that's changing.
So darn fast. Um, and you don't own that audience. So, you've got to come up with some concrete, other ways to, um, to grow your practice. And one of them is related to. Get to know people who know other people who need to know you, if you can figure that out a million years ago, when I got into this, like 21 years ago, I used to be like, uh, a fractional marketing consultant to surgeons.
And one surgeon is in a very affluent area here in Northern California. And I used to go to the chamber of commerce for him. And as a joke, I say, I have to wear a pin with your name on it, or your photo on it. I'm just the, the, you know, your advocate, like I was like your PR agent, but frankly we would have sold so much more.
And I got quite a few facelifts out of that, but I would have sold so much more. Had he been there, you know, like, um, you really, it, because it takes you to build that relationship. Um, so, uh, kudos to you for doing that, but. Thank you. Um, is there a particular audience, so what's your marketing strategy? Is there a particular audience you're going after a particular procedure, a particular target market or area?
Like, do you have a marketing strategy? How you're going about this? Because the world is your oyster. However, you'll run out of the time, money and effort trying to get to everybody. So, you're so much better off. The focus. Do you have any of that going on? Like who's your target market and where are they?
Dr. Angela Sturm
It seems, I kind of made my target argue target market who was drawn to me. Like you're saying, you know, like who I connect with on a personal basis. I connect with them online as well. You know, it's people that are like me, they're young professionals, maybe they're young moms. Maybe they're not, maybe they're dog moms, you know, it's people that are looking at okay, I'm starting to see the signs of aging.
What do I do? You know? I've never tried Botox. I've never done anything to my skin. What is something that's, you know, really gentle and not scary to do, you know? So, you can start with things like the Hollywood facial or like the, uh, really light lasers like that, and then build that relationship. And then that turns into something else surgical or, you know, referring their friends it's like that.
So, if I have the people that I know that whenever I meet them in person, you know, we'll have a. Relationship. It it's much easier. Like those are my people. Whenever I see them there, you know, we, we can have a great conversation about whatever it is, you know, and that sort of the vibe that I like in the office and what I try to make, you know, online and social media, as well as like, This is a place to kind of come to and relax and be like, yeah, this is I'm in the right spot.
You know? And so, everything about the office we designed is just to be very relaxing and like, okay, this is, this is it. Um, I'm glad I'm here and I can be myself. I can tell you whatever, you know, um, I'm a pretty open book. And so, I have all kinds of conversations with my patients and they know a lot about me and I know a lot about them.
It ends up being a, you know, a great personal relationship, which I enjoy very much. And then the patients feel comfortable telling whatever it is that they're thinking about doing, or maybe this or that, or do you have a referral? And I get calls all the time for referrals for stuff. That's definitely not what I do, but you know, like, oh, I do have somebody that you can go to, you know?
And so, it's nice having that kind of personal relationship that they feel comfortable asking. Kind of embarrassing questions or so if I can make, and I guess I'm. Branding nerd without having that background, that I like everything to be the same, you know, like that is my message. This, you can be yourself.
We can, we will take care of you. You're, you know, you're in good hands. And so, everything winds up with that, we're when your social media that this is, this is just what it is like. Open-book and the website. And whenever you come here, I try to make everything have that same field.
Catherine Maley, MBA
For sure. How important has social media then to you in order to grow your practice and educate patients on your procedure?
Do you have some really fun procedures and I'm like Hollywood peel, um, you know, fun names for things that patients will remember? And I love that you give them a choice. You have a non-surgical choice or a surgical. In today's world. I mean, take it from somebody who knows I've had surgical and nonsurgical and I will continue to rotate between them.
So, if you can give me those choices, meet me where I'm at, and that's what happens. A lot of the surgeons don't meet people where they're at. They only meet them when they're ready for surgery. And I'm not sure that's the right attitude in today's world. They'll. They need to know you and not right that second.
Can you do know you before they decide to have surgery,
Dr. Angela Sturm
right? Yeah. And like I said, give those options because so many people are looking for non-surgical options and they're saying, you know, maybe surgery down the line, but that's not really what I'm thinking right now, or what do you have that can get me resolved so I can see and, you know, Maybe part of that hesitation is getting to know all these devices and you know, what works for you and not, and doing all of that because it is a lot to, to look into everything.
But I think it is important to have that for your patients because it gives them that whole package of, yeah, you can have, you know, you can have a facelift, but you've got to take care of your skin and you gotta, you know, and then there's the maintenance and. No, nobody because there are people, but lots of people, you know, they don't want to just do that and then be done.
They want to always continue to look good. And that's the whole idea is you want to continue to look good. And so, if you can have options and be able to talk to them about, I don't know, I like to talk to them about what I have and then also what I don't have, you know, if there's something that might be better and I have, you know, a friend dermatologist and say, let me give you, her card.
And you know, and then I can build that relationship with that patient as well as, you know, The other doctors are, you know, being able to get them the best results, no matter what it is. And then I found in it, it makes a better relationship with them. Then they'll come back for other stuff later, you know, rather than, oh, you know, the hammer and the nail, you know, this is what I want to do.
Catherine Maley, MBA
You might not know this, but if you looked at the pie, what percentage. Do you maybe anecdotally or, or you actually know come from social media versus word-of-mouth referral versus a print ad. Uh, are you doing any of the old school marketing or is it all social media and word of mouth?
Dr. Angela Sturm
I have done the print, but it doesn't have great ROI for me.
You know, I have. I've done it whenever I've known the publisher. And it was more of like a relationship with that person in the community, you know, to kind of support them rather than the ROI, knowing it wasn't going to be that great moving forward or to use it for, um, other things. Cause I like to take one thing and then, you know, make a social media posts and social media story about it and tell the story about what that is and why we were involved in, you know, and what they're supporting and because a lot of the.
I'm sure everywhere, like the publishers will also support things in their community and so that I can support them. And then that, you know, and make the story out of it more for social media than actually expecting something out of the publication, if that makes any sense. Um, but I would say at least 60% of my patients are word of mouth because that's just the way the practice is, which is great.
And I, I love it, but then, you know, maybe 20. Probably 25% is, is social media, you know, and then other Google search and all the other little things. But the majority is word of mouth because I don't know, I just it's the best. Yeah, but the social media has been a great way for me to, um, meet new patients.
And then also keep in touch with the patients that I have. And like you said, introduce the new treatments that we have introduced new ways of doing things, and it keeps them interested in what we're doing and why we're doing it. And it may be something that drives people crazy about me, but I always like to be doing something new and different and let's try this and let's do that.
And let's change now and let's pivot and let's do this and, you know, The patients love it. They'll come in and say, okay, well, I saw that you did this. What can I benefit from that? And, well, what about this? And can we do that? And, you know, and so it's been a bit of like internal marketing just to kind of keep them abreast, which is a much easier way.
Like we send out emails and they liked that and they liked the education of it. But I think, um, I get a lot more response from the social media that they're seeing kind of what we're doing on a day-to-day basis.
Catherine Maley, MBA
And I see you're doing most of your own social media. Is it how bad of a time commitment is?
Dr. Angela Sturm
So actually, do you have someone that helps me with the social media? I will. Me or one of the staff members will take the videos, we'll interview the patients. We'll, you know, we do a lot of that and, and she does some of the videos as well, but then she does the editing and we'll help, you know, post it.
And so, it's not a, not a big-time commitment for me. We've kind of worked out between me and the digital marketer, what, what I can do and what I want her to do. It makes sense. You know, time-wise,
Catherine Maley, MBA
that's a smart way to do it because, um, you like, you're doing a very good job of educating. So, when you get involved, you know, it's going to, you're going to be talking about a treatment typically, and then you can see all the other work that I'm so glad you're delegating that because I can't imagine some of these surgeons are spending hours a day on this, and I just can't imagine that being a great use of your time.
Some of that makes sense. Most of it doesn't you should I personally, I think you should be delegating like 80% of it, but you do what you do, you know, like, I like that saying, do what only you can do, you know, delegate the rest for sure.
And the reason you need to delegate Hulu is because you mentioned two children.
You have a pandemic child. Yes. Can you, what, what happened? What, what was going on?
Dr. Angela Sturm
It all happened at the same time I decided, okay. I am going to start my own practice. And then I found out, okay, I am pregnant. That was not planned, but okay. Fantastic timing. All right. Let's okay. And then right after we started, then we there's the pandemic hit.
Um, yeah, I had her in the middle of that, the surge that was in the end of June. So it was at the peak numbers, you know, just stressful as far as that goes. Um, but it is what it is. It was one of those things my mom kept saying, well, you seem like you should be stressing out more. And I'm like, but what am I going to do?
You know, what am I going to do? Uh, There's nothing I can do about it. You just get a roll with it and you know, it everybody's in the same boat. It's not like anyone's not dealing with this pandemic. We're all, we're all here together. And. Oh, I, I luckily have a great staff that totally understands where I was like, I actually have just hired my institution.
I was like, you can start Monday. I'll be having a baby until I come back.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Who, who managed your practice while you were away?
Dr. Angela Sturm
So it was at that point, it was just Crystal, which has been with me from the beginning and who is amazing. And we just talked on a regular basis and she's able to kind of manage things. Um, so that's been the role that she's actually grown into.
And then, you know, I, I can do a little bit from home, but it was nice to have her and somebody that I've known for a long time to be able to trust and be like, okay, This is what we're going to do. If you can, like you said, this is the direction we need to go. These are the things that need to happen. If you can make sure that happens, I wouldn't be great.
And, and they were able to do it and they're, they're wonderful. I really have a great staff. So, I think we've been really, really lucky to find good people and, and be able to. And work with them through this to make sure everyone feels valued. And you know, the things that they're having to deal with, if they have a sick family member or whatever, you know, be able to support them in all of everything that's gone on.
Um, you know, to, to be able to make sure that things happen the way that they need to happen. Because as you know, as a surgeon, I have to be like captain of the ship. Here's where we're going. I'm going to be in surgery all day. You guys got, yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA
That's another good point for having other revenue generators in the practice for you.
It was a baby for somebody else. It was. Are running, like they blew out their ankle or something. I mean, there's so many reasons to think about that. You know, when you're, what happens when you can't be there. Does anything happen? Does the whole place stop? Um, you know, it's things to think about for sure.
Uh, so just to wrap this up, where did you get your motivation from? Or do you read a lot? I know that you said you were a, you joined clubs and I think that's super helpful. They always say surround yourself with people that you want to be like, you know? And, um, how do you keep your mindset? So, and how are you so well, mild mannered?
I would be flipping out if I had. A new practice and a baby. I can add another one. You already had a toddler. So now you have,
Dr. Angela Sturm
it's a circus, it's a circus of my house. That's why I call space. Um, you know, I do like to read and I read as much as I can and now, I've figured out how to like, read on my phone. So, the kids don't know that's what I'm doing. That's a kind of keep up with, you know, different. I said, I like to read about. Things like my thing now is yes, I read a lot about surgery and techniques and what's coming out, but we read a lot of like leadership and, you know, money management.
And what to your point though, like other business, you know, other income streams and how can we diversify it? How can I diversify as a person, as a surgeon, as a practice, you know, too? Whenever I'm older and maybe my back hurts and you know, that the practice is going along just fine. And I don't have to be the one, you know, with everything on my back and, and getting things in it.
And that's my plan of like, That's what I'm reading at this point. It's like, how do we scale things? So, when the kids are bigger and they have soccer practice or a soccer game, I can go and the practice keeps going and it's not a big deal, you know? And so, I have some flexibility though. I actually enjoy all of that.
Like I enjoy the business part of it. And like I said, it's always the challenge thing, you know, onto the next challenge and the next challenge. And so, I actually, I enjoyed that part.
Well,
Catherine Maley, MBA
good for you. So, to wrap this up, do you have one piece of advice for anybody who's either starting out or even who's been around a long time, then they're kind of not clear what's happening in the world.
Any advice.
Dr. Angela Sturm
It's always okay. To make a change, you know, even if you're in a comfortable place and you're thinking, oh, maybe I should, or maybe this, you know, it's okay to make a change because like, like they always say, you know, either that's my ideas either I'm going to succeed or I'm going to learn. And then the next time I'm going to, you know, know how to do it better, or you get on a different path, you know, you may not know exactly what that path is going to be, but it's going to.
You know, you'll get on a path that takes you somewhere. That's better than you thought it would be. So, it's, you know, it's okay to make a change and it's okay to, to question things. And I think right now everyone is questioning a lot, you know, which is not a bad thing. If okay, where am I? Where am I going?
You know, the pandemics made us look at life a little bit differently and. You know, what do I want and what do I want out of life and my practice and how those go together and, you know, and be able to make the decision that works for you because I've talked to so many young physicians lately, they're like, well, I'm in this employee, just like you said, and this Floyd situation and.
You know, they always say they're really nice people and I hate to leave and I hate to, you know, like it's this business, uh, you know, it's business. It is what it is. You can still be friends, you know, but you do need to make the best decision for you and really be able to look at, you know, like objectively what do I want and be okay with making that change because everybody's going to be okay.
You know,
Catherine Maley, MBA
one thing I got out of the pandemic. Um, because we all had to stop, you know, we had to just stop. We couldn't keep going, going, going. They wouldn't, we weren't allowed to, we had to stop and think. And, um, the best part about that, I think is you really started to ask questions. What do I really want to do?
You know, like I, I personally simplified I was doing so many things that were not fun for me or not interesting, or not going anywhere. I was just trying to be everything all the time. And I thought, why am I doing that? I'm like, and I say, What do you like to do? Um, like really fixing procedures you really like, and let's just focus there.
You know, I think everything, everybody, when I anyway, so a lot came out of that. So, there's always something good coming out of bad, but, oh boy, I can't wait till this darn thing is over. I'm still in California. It's ridiculous. Um, and as if you were busy enough, you're also on the planning committee of the American academy of facial plastic and reconstructive surgeons.
And actually I'm, I will see you there. I'm going to be on the podium. Thank you so much. Um, so tell me about that. Because I want others to attend.
Dr. Angela Sturm
Yeah, absolutely. We're super excited. Were really excited to hopefully be in person well every day is, and you know, you take it day by day, so we'll see what happens, but that's the plan so far, we do have options for virtual if that's what we need to do.
Um, but we're, it's really exciting. Like some of the, the planners we have really put together like an amazing program. And I love that we have really taken time to be a. Intentional about who's speaking and what they're speaking about and making sure their voices that are heard, that haven't necessarily been heard before, you know, and having a diversity of people that are on the podium, you know, and having topics that are critical to where we're at right now, you know?
And I, I made sure in my part to make sure. There's something for everybody, you know? And are you at the beginning of your career and you're trying to figure out which job are you in the middle and you're looking at, okay, how do I either scale or scale back or even end? And how do you figure out how to retire or sell your practice or do people sell practices or how do you, you know, how do you do that and what do you do with that?
And so, and there's so really exciting rhinoplasty and facial rejuvenation talks and, um, I think it's going to be really good. I, I love whenever we get together and we talk about, you know, everything that's planned out because it is a little bit different than how it's been before and there are new and exciting talks.
And so, I hope everybody could go, um, register.
I know it's on the AFPRS website and you can get to it from there. Okay.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, is a AAFPRS.com? Yeah, I can't remember.org, maybe. I'm sorry. I don't remember, but if you just Google, um, facial plastic surgeons, I'm sure it'll pop up. Facial Plastic Surgeon Conference probably you know, anyway, I'll see you there. I'm going there in public. I can, or going there for real, I am not doing virtual conferences anymore.
We can't, I need to get back and meet everybody and see everybody and talk to you and, you know, and, and network again, and like just share ideas. It's. More difficult to do that virtually than it is when you're together in the hallway. I love hallway huddles at these conferences. You just get so much out of them.
So, yeah.
Dr. Angela Sturm
Yeah. There's so much. And just being able to talk to someone after their talk about what they're doing and how they're doing it and why and what the details. You're just not going to get that from, you know, from a virtual talk. Um, yeah, I'm excited about it.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Good. All right. I will see you there. I believe it is.
Um, October, September, end of September in Las Vegas at the Palm hotel, correct? Or, um, what's called,
Dr. Angela Sturm
oh, I think it's in The Paris.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Paris, that's it, Paris. I knew it started with a P The Paris Hotel. All right. So, I'll see you there. Thank you so much for being on my podcast. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Angela Sturm
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Everyone that wraps it up for this session. Please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz, so you don't miss any other episodes. And if you've got any questions or feedback for me, you can certainly leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can always DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.
Thanks so much and we'll talk again soon.
Visit Dr. Sturm's website at:
https://DrAngelaSturm.com
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Handling Objections Podcast
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
You know how frustrating it is when you, as the surgeon, spend endless hours in consultations with would-be patients and you are sure they are a yes, so you pass them back to your patient coordinator who discusses your fees and surgical dates, but then you find out later, they didnβt book after all.
How frustrating is that? When you ask your coordinator what happened, they often tell you the prospective patient has to think about it or talk to their husband.
But is that true? In my decades of experience in sales, I have found that 1st objection is not the real objection. Itβs the one they give you that gets them off the hook so they can go back to procrastinating since itβs a big decision to make.
But a true professional who is confident asks questions to get to the real issue because you need to discover their real objection since thatβs the only way they are going to move forward.
Hereβs the secretβ¦look at objections as clues. Itβs the patient letting you know whether or not youβre moving towards their YES or away from it.
They are actually guiding you so be grateful. Because if they didnβt have any objections, they are not even considering what you are offering them.
Your coordinator should welcome objections and you both should prepare responses ahead of time, while youβre relaxedβ not while in the heat of the moment when the patient is sitting in front of you and emotions are high.
The first thing you want to do when an objection comes up is to STAY CALM and ask questions to get to the real objection.
Here are 6 strategies to help:
1. Always Agree
This may be counterintuitive but always, always, always agree with the patient and let them know they are right and you understand. No matter what they say. If you agree with someone, it immediately dissolves their resistance. Now that they know you heard them, they will be more open and receptive to a different point of view.
2. Prepare proof to dispel objections
Thanks to the sheer volume of contradictory information online, your patients may have some wacky thinking going on that needs to be addressed.
So, rather than telling them theyβre wrong, use your other patients to counter the objections.
For example:
- Create a list of common objections you hear often.
- Now collect patient videos and written testimonials addressing those same objections.
- Then have your prospective patients watch the videos from your other patients who had the same concern they did, but they moved forward and are go grateful they did because they love their result.
3. Your Own Story
Itβs so much more powerful when your coordinator can relay their own story and experience with a patient who wants the same.
Itβs also a huge shortcut to handling objections when your coordinator become the patientβs aesthetic advisor because the patients can see with their own eyes your excellent work and they want the same.
4. Be Curious
Did you know a majority of cosmetic patients love to procrastinate and hate making big decisions? Most likely, they have been thinking about this for years and are looking to you for guidance and a little prodding to help them make a decision so feel them out by asking more questions.
However, you must ask and then LISTEN to their answers. Silent pauses are needed here. If you give the prospective patient the space and time to think, maybe they wonβt need to go home and think about it.
5. Price vs Value
Price will most often be the main sticking point as an objection so prepare for it by remembering this:
Nobody buys the price. They buy a solution to their problem. They are doing a cost- benefit analysis in their head to determine if what you charge is worth the time, money and hassle to get the result they want.
Your job is to help them make sense of the price because you offer so much value such as great results, 5-Star Service, and a Quality Patient Experience.
The point is there is always more to consider than just price so make a big deal out of the extra value you provide that helps put your pricing in perspective.
BTW, prospective patients will often balk at your fees BUT is that really an objection or just a complaint? Oftentimes, they do get sticker shock but they are not objecting. They just need a minute to process so be sure you laid out your value ahead of time and give them lots of creative ways to pay for it.
6. Use an Objection Cheat Sheet
80% of the objections you hear will be the same so prepare your responses now to eliminate βwinging itβ in front of the patient. Here is a list to get you started:
β[I agree or youβre right or
| Objection | Your Response | | Itβs too much. | I understand Karen, these procedures are not cheap but they do last a long time. Most of our patients say itβs too much AND they love their results so much, they wish they had done it sooner.β BTW, we offer affordable pay plans. Are you interested? | | Iβm not sure itβs worth the time & money. | βSara, I can tell you, I had it done and I couldnβt be happier.β | | I need to think about it. | βLet me ask you Sara, on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being you are absolutely certain and ready to go, and 1 being you wouldnβt move forward no matter what, where do you stand?β βWhat would make it a 10?β | | Iβm going to think about it. | βI understand Sara and Iβve helped so many other patients think about it, Iβd like to help you too. What exactly do you want to think about?β | | I have to talk to my husband | βYouβre right Sara, you should definitely run this by your husband and out of curiosity, What if he says No? or What would he say no to?β This is a great question because the patient will tell you what their husband will object to, which is usually what THEY object to. |
So, do you see now that whatever the objection is, just ask more questions because objections are nothing to fear when you are prepared ahead of time to address them and move on to the decision.
If your coordinator could use my help, please have them join my converting club for coordinators to learn how to professionally and confidently convert your consults.
Details are at www.convertconsultations.com
Everyone that wraps it up for this session. Please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz, so you don't miss any other episodes. And if you've got any questions or feedback for me, you can certainly leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can always DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. Thanks so much and we'll talk again soon.
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Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Todayβs guest is Dr. Marco Pelosi III.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III is one of the most talented, influential and well-known cosmetic gynecologists in the world. He is best known for his skills in cosmetic vaginal surgery, pelvic reconstructive surgery and whole body aesthetic surgery. He is consulted regularly by patients, surgeons, the medical industry and the media for his expertise, insights and innovative methods. He has won numerous awards for his work.
Dr. Pelosi III is the co-founder of the ISCG, the largest cosmetic gyn society in the world, founder and host of the Top Cosmetic Gynecologists podcast, and developer of numerous surgical techniques. He has delivered over 800 presentations worldwide and authored numerous scientific articles and textbook chapters on surgical technologies and techniques.
Dr. Pelosi III is board certified in obstetrics and gynecology, post-graduated trained in cosmetic surgery. He received his specialty training in Manhattanβs elite Cornell University medical system at New York Downtown Hospital. He has served as a Fellow and Trustee of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery and Fellow and Chairman of Obstetrics and Gynecology of the International College of Surgeons for the entire United States.
He is in private practice with his father Dr. Marco Pelosi II, also a cosmetic gynecologist in a suburb of New Jersey.
Both surgeons are pioneers, speakers and teachers in the world of cosmetic gynecology.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com or DM me on Instagram.
And, if you havenβt done so already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a review since that helps me reach a larger audience.
Thanks so much and talk soon!
Visit Dr. Pelosi's website
Transcript:
Interview with Marco Pelosi III
By Catherine Maley
September 15, 2021
Catherine Maley, MBA
Hello everyone. And welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business, that marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley author of Your aesthetic practice, what your patients are saying as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
Now today's Beauty and the Biz podcast is with Dr. It's interview with Dr. Marco Pelosi the third now he's one of the most well-known cosmetic gynecologists in the world and specializes in cosmetic vaginal surgery, pelvic reconstructive surgery, as well as whole body aesthetic surgery. Now, Dr. Pelosi is co-founder of the, I S C G, which is the largest cosmetic Gyn society in the world and his founder and host
of the Top cosmetic gynecologists podcast. He's in private practice with his father, Dr. Marco Pelosi, the second, also a cosmetic gynecologist and aesthetic surgeon in a suburb near New Jersey. So, both surgeons are pioneers, speakers, and teachers in the world of cosmetic gynecology and aesthetic surgery.
So, Dr. Pelosi, it's a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. We're actually located in Bayonne, New Jersey. So, if you were on Wall Street and you made a beeline for the Statue of Liberty and made a hard left, you'd wind up at my office.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So funny because I tried to, I Googled Bayonne, and it seemed, I said, okay, so what's it near like Jersey City and then I was getting all confused and that's why I just went with the suburban, of New Jersey.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Sure, sure. It goes Newark Airport, Bayonne, Hoboken, Wall Street.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So, the burning question, I'm sure everyone is wondering if there's a Dr.
Marco Pelosi the second and the third. And is there a pending fourth, is he already here?
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Dr. Yes, Dr. Pelosi, the fourth is going to stay Mr. Pelosi. The fourth. He is in college right now at Costal Carolina, studying finance and marketing. And his plan is to be in the financial world.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Good for him. And then the store is your goal to keep this going.
Is this, is he going to be it's very much required to have a Marco Pelosi the Fifth?
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Well at, at the pace that he's going, we don't want to be grandparents just yet. So, we've told them to put the brakes on things and just enjoy the college experience,
Catherine Maley, MBA
That soon to be determined, or maybe not maybe later.
All right. Then the next big burning question is all about Hurricane Ida while I was researching you, I'm out in California. And I don't watch the news anymore for lots of reasons, but I realized, oh my gosh, you guys had 12 inches of rain in a very short amount of time.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Well, luckily, I live on a golf course and it's, it's a landscape in a way that the water flows past us. But we're out in Hunterdon County where there's a lot of farms and little old country roads, little bridges. They're very scenic. Those are all gone. So, there was a lot of flooding. There were a lot of people who were, you know, texting, driving and oops.
I'm in three feet of water. One of my nurses. She lost her car. She she's in the city, she's closer to Bayonne. And she drove into like three feet of water. And we joked because she's like just under five feet tall. And I said, you're lucky because you'd be the first one to drown. And her husband came to get her in a brand-new BMW, one day old and he lost his car.
Got totaled. So that was a disaster. If I showed you the Facebook pages of our local friends of how much devastation this little storm caused, it's shocking, it's mind boggling. And luckily it didn't kill the infrastructure on the major highways the electricity wasn't out in as many places as in past storms.
So, all in all, it could have been a lot worse and you know, it could have been allowed better, but I think everybody is recovered enough that it was just like a bad couple of days. Well, I'm
Catherine Maley, MBA
sorry to hear that. And now I know out here in California, we're having, once again, the wildfires that we apparently never know are coming, but they happen every year and they're so out of control.
Ah, I don't know what's going on in the world, so we should probably talk faster, you know, before the doom
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
hits, before we get flooded.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, let's talk about how did you just a quick story about your journey? How did you get from what medical school into practice with?
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
All right. Well, the family biz was, was OB GYN for many years.
And my father made himself famous in the 1980s with the laparoscopic surgery and just got back surgery where the surgery was done through tiny incisions. And what happened is that I went into the family business in medicine, in residency. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. In a, in a, in a medical school.
I first, first, first of all, I wasn't even sure I wanted to be a doctor. So, I took a year off to go travel around and figure things out. And so, then I said, okay, I think I want to be a doctor. And so, I just went into medical school or a wide-open field. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to go into, but it was in the back of my mind that I could just step into an established Gagne OB GYN practice that was low.
And in the 1980s, you could call the regular medicine profitable and a great place to practice. So, I got into my clinical rotations third year and fourth year, and I was a guy that always liked to operate. I was very proactive, aggressive, big mouse, and, you know, so I was always getting into people's faces and they liked the, you know, when I was in the, or, you know, I could chat shut.
And, and so I became very friendly with all the general surgeons and everybody was trying to recruit me to go in the plastics and into colorectal and oncology and even the guidance and the guide you guys thought I was just going to automatically just step into there. So, after a few more rotations and a few more rotations, I decided, okay, I'm going to go into OB GYN.
And I applied to a bunch of programs. I wanted to be in the city. So, I matched at the New York downtown, which was a branch of NYU. It's right down on wall street, down by the fish market, by the Seaport. So great place to be and a great, we were the highest paid residents in the country. So, I always told my friends, I'm pulling it down just as a resident.
And when I finished training, I was very good at endoscopy elaborate. It could be, cause I was working with my father's friendsβ weekends, I would just fly somewhere and he would just fund every. I go to the Mayo clinic. I go to the Cleveland clinic. You name it. I met everybody who was a big. And so, I was already getting known as the, you know, the next Pelosi a laparoscopic endoscopic surgeon.
And I was in the doctor's lounge every day at the hospital, watching these guys who were my age now, 50 something. And they were bitching and moaning. I said, oh, every year the malpractice insurance goes up. Oh, every year the reimbursement goes down and it was still. But I saw the writing on a wall and I said, I don't want to be that guy when I'm 50 bitching and moaning that they're not happy with their career.
And I know I liked surgery. I always liked these statics and plastics. It was just that at that time, there weren't many to opportunity many opportunities outside of the core. So, if you didn't come out of the core and there was no internet to search, there was no Google, you know, it was very hard to find the, that kind of training.
But luckily, I found that Jeff Klein, he had just written a book. And he's that dermatologist from Southern California, that, that came out with two MES that liposuction. So, I hunted him down through the phone book directory. You remember that stuff? Yellow pages. And I got into his course and I brought my father and we looked at two missing local anesthesia, and we looked at the liposuction and we said, dorms are doing this we're surgical.
We should be doing this. And so, we rounded up some friends and family, and we did a little bit of light at the one and we went back and we worked with clients some more and little by little, we started doing liposuction. And from that point we started meeting people at meetings. We'd go to a guy named meeting and they'd bring me a friend who was a plastic and a friend who was a derma friend who was facial plastic.
And we speak Spanish because I was born in south America. So, we flew down to south America and we trained with tons of plastics and tons of surgeons that normally nobody in the states has access to. So, I had a lot of training that most people. Haven't had that opportunity to have, and we brought it back and we, we got our hospital privileges.
We documented our training and we set up a surgery center in our office. And we do cases here now for the past 20 years. Everything I had to toast we're well-known for the cosmetic guy need, because we've pretty much pushed the specialty into the forefront. But we still do a lot of body contouring, liposuction, tummy, tucks, all the work that normally everybody does when they're in the field of plastic aesthetic work.
And we're really, really, really. Packed right now during the pandemic, because everybody's switched gears, people who said in the past, I'm going to wait for the right time to do this. Now, now is that time in their mind that they have the ability to work from home. They have the ability to just use, you know, the virtual side of their, their business and say, I'm going virtual this month.
And that's when they do their thing. They're not traveling as much. So, they have a little more. And they're getting paid. They're getting a lot of stimulus from the government. So that's going on? We've got the crypto, boom. I don't know if you've been into crypto, but crypto is making a lot of money for, for a lot of people.
And they're usually younger people because the older people, they don't even know how to work an email, but these young people that are making a killing. And I talked to my son who's in college and his friends, you know, all the finance kids are just crushing it in these new markets. So that's what I'm doing.
That's where I am right now. And that's how we're really having a great season here. Then we hope it just keeps going.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, what's it like working with your father? I, I have watched several practices. Partnerships are tough enough, but family, you can be even tougher. So, what are the pros and cons of.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
All right. You know, imagine that there's like the three camps. Okay. One camp is family, the way you grew up, you know, and you have that, that sort of a relationship that then you have the professional relationship you know, father and son, like going fishing together. Like there was something together that doesn't happen too much.
In the beginning. We did, you know, when we first started working together, we started trying to feel each other out. Like, he's like, this is my son and he good, or, you know and I'm sitting here at my old man crazy. So, we figured each other out and then I have my own clinical side and he has his own clinical side where, you know, we, we see the same flow of patients coming in.
The demographic of the patients is identical, but we each run our own show. And every once in a while, on a big case, let's say we're doing something that has a left side and a right side. And they're both really big, well, we'll work together and. And speed it up. But more often than not, I work with a surgical tech and he works with a surgical tech on any of the major cases.
And you know, that allows one of the guys in the practice to be doing the consults and the follow ups while the other one is, is using the operating room because we run a, a one hour set up
Catherine Maley, MBA
and then how do you. The skillsets of business marketing, managing staff, how did you figure all that out?
Because not everyone's good at all of those things. And I would assume you want to use your strengths so
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
well, I, we graduated both. We, we both matriculated in the university of hard knocks and carried it out. And initially when you run a medical practice and you bill through insurance for medical indications, it's pretty, it's pretty set how you run that.
You have a coding person and a, whatever you do get coded and submitted, and there's a whole rigamarole of processes and delayed. And that that runs automatic. We have, we have been running that style of programs since the 1990s where you know, the medical insurance and the coding w became a big deal.
For the aesthetic side we run it differently because it's a completely different specialty it's, it's nothing to do with insurance companies. So, we, we know we have we re we hired an MBA. We have an MBA office manager who just knows how to run business. So, you know, we, we pretty much tell her what we're trying to achieve.
And then we go back and forth and we bang out how that can be achieved in a streamlined fashion that makes sense financially and manage you. So that, that's something that we just learned and you learn it by talking to people. You learn it by, by, you know, you taking like MBA stuff and applying it to aesthetics, which is not always as easy as it sounds because MBAs in general don't have a subspecialty of any type.
They just go into the market and they figure out what their focus is. And so, you sort of have to do. Work it and tune it and tailor it as you go along. And you know, there are best practices now, more than ever there there's access to the resources online. So, it's pretty easy to find resources.
Sometimes that's a double-edged sword because you got so many choices, you don't know which choice is the best choice. So, you're sometimes kind of overloaded with stuff. But yeah, we have financial people that we trust. We have other professionals that we trust. We have people like you who you know, just provide information and resources that that help us along the way.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, I do have an MBA and I have brought my MBA skills to the plastic surgery world. Mostly kicking and screaming because most surgeons would rather be in the, or, you know, then talk about the, the, the business side of surgery. So yeah, so there there's a room there for everybody. So, is it a dictatorship or is it a partnership?
Like, does your dad get to call like what happens when you don't agree on something? Do you just not do it?
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Oh, no, no, no, no. We, we, we figure it out. No, it's not a dictatorship. In the beginning, you know, you have a guy who was running a practice for 30 years and he hires a new hire who doesn't know anything about the business.
You can't expect to have a parody at that time. You know, that's, that would be insane. That would be like, you know, rookie pilots saying, right. We're going to fly this way. And the old man is going to tell you, you can't do that because, and Alicia, 100 reasons. So when, when we got into aesthetics, I think it was a different scenario because we were both getting in at the same time, fresh.
We each basically we're starting at the same baseline. He had the old Fox wisdom of just working a medical practice. I was more a sponge for the technology side and now I've become even more into marketing. I've taken courses. So, for the last I would say 10 years. He is deferred all of that stuff to me.
So, when I say we should have a marketing plan that does this, he's like run with it. When I, when I tell them we should reframe our, our marketing strategies to do this, this and that. And he just says, run with it. And when we work with marketing people, you know, I I've been in their field in their world for so long that.
I understand their language and they understand what I'm saying. So, w we sort of, you know, we can speak the same language, obviously. No. But when you explain it to me, you don't have to tell me what a, you know, a KPI is, and I can tell you, okay. You know, let's just talk about what your strategy is.
Catherine Maley, MBA
It is so helpful for surgeons to at least know the basics of marketing and business.
So at least, you know, when you're talking to an expert, supposedly they know what they're talking about. You know I; I hate to go into a conversation completely blind, not understanding anything and hoping to God I'm talking to an expert that really has my best interest at heart. So, nothing easy about that.
Let's talk about staff for a second, because one thing that I've noticed when there are two surgeons in our practice sometimes if there's not the one big leader, they have a tendency to pick the surgeon. They like the best, or they'll go over your head and go to the other surgeon. Do you have any of that happening with staff or any tips on managing staff?
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Yeah. Yeah. I would say, you know, every, every staff has a different personality style. Some people are good at just following and they follow perfectly, you know, like soldier, they tell them to do something and they do it exactly. Other people are problem solvers and they think they see the problem.
They see where you are. They see where you're trying to go and they improvise. And it's good to have both types of people, because if you have somebody who just follows everything, you say your process is never going to improve because you're not tweaking it. You're not seeing it from a different perspective.
Whereas if you're looking at it and the person is like a problem solver, They might say, you know, I've watched you do this, I've watched your father do this. I've watched him do what you do. I watch you do what he does. And when you guys do this, it always comes out smoother. So, we sort of tweaked our styles based on the commentary of somebody that gets to watch both of us independently.
Some, some staff are you know, they have obligations that are unpredictable. You know, somebody's got the screaming little kid that gets sick. That's where they're going to be. When the little screaming kid gets. So, when we have certain people at certain times a day in certain positions, we already know that that's a possibility.
So, we have a backup person. So, we have sort of like a sliding kind of job descriptions. So, everybody does their basic job, but they can shift into an additional role. That might be necessary when somebody, it just isn't available to do their function.
Catherine Maley, MBA
You have the backup plan. I am going to do a talk on contingency.
There needs to always to be a contingency. If all goes to hell, what's, you know, you might as well plan for it because it's going to happen.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Yeah. You don't want ever want to be whatever process. You have to have a single point of failure because that that's, that's always a bad idea. If you ask an engineer and they build a bridge, you can't have a single point of failure.
You have to have a backup. If a piece fails. For sure.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, let's switch over to marketing your new favorite topic. And you have such an interesting way of your specialized. And I love that, especially in marketing. When I talk about like external marketing, you need to get known for something rather than be the Jack of all trades to everybody offering everything.
So, I love that you specialize has that worked in your favor. To get your name out there or does it, do you feel like a pigeonhole sheet?
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
No, no, no. It's, it's got, it's gotten me huge marketing power because if you take the marketing credo, which is just a focus, your marketing and dominate a small segment, you know, they say that the blue ocean strategy picks an area where there's nobody there and just become the big.
Yeah. And that little area with the internet, you'll be able to attract tons of people from everywhere. When you're in a, an area where it's the red ocean, you have all the sharks feeding. The only way to stand out there is to once again, create your niche is so we create our niche in cosmetic guidance.
But with a very broad net. So, my patients that come in for cosmetic guidance are flying into my office and the ones that are coming in for bodywork, lipo and tummy tucks, and such are driving to my office. But they're all looking for something unique for the cosmetic it's, it's the, it's the limited supply of specialists and for the body work it's, first of all, it's the good work as shown on our social media.
And the fact that we have the ability to speak Spanish fluently, which attracts a large clientele in our particular area, which has a lot of Latino patients. And the way that the Latino market works is if you have one Latino client, they bring you lots of them because they love to do things in groups.
They have to bring you to their favorite restaurant, bring you to their favorite hairdresser, bring you to their favorite store. And bring you to their favorite cosmetic surgeon. So, so once you, once you, you, you hooked up with, with those kinds of client clients in the Latino market you're in a good place and they're loyal.
They're very loyal. So, if you treat them right, that they keep. I've
Catherine Maley, MBA
seen that over and over. You get one Hispanic woman and next thing you know, you've got her sister, her mom, her cousin, her aunt. They're amazing. Yeah, there's very good word of mouth referral sources. So, when it comes to. Yeah, I noticed you got a brand-new website.
It's lovely, by the way, it's gorgeous. And I want to commend you on something you're doing very, very well that I hardly ever see. And that's your photo gallery and your videos. You've gone to great lengths to get that photo gallery. You've got lots of photos. They're all consistent. With the same background with the same stance, the same lighting.
What, how did you do that? What kind of processes you have to have some processes to make that happen? How can you just explain that? Because social proof is everything in our world and I don't think enough energy or focus is put on what are you showing people online? And your Instagram is excellent and your photos are just excellent.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Well, thanks. I'm glad. I'm glad you like. Yeah, w we, we put a lot of attention on featuring things. W with a, with a solid background, it's either going to be a blue background or it's going to be like a beige off white background. So, all that you see in the before and after is the change of the work. I when I first started, I called my photographer, the guy that shot my wedding and I brought him in here and I said, listen, I want to take pictures of the human body and the face, realistic photos, nothing artistic.
I just want to reproduce what the ICU. And I just want to have a up, but I can put the patient right there and just bang out the pictures. And he said, no problem. I will set you up. I will get all the equipment and you just pay for it. And I'll use my professional discounts. I said, great. So, he set up the whole rig for us and I shoot with a tripod.
I shoot with a studio flash right behind. The camera and we have a little, a spot painted on the floor and it's as simple as that. And so, we just snap and shoots snap and shoot, and we just keep turning the patients. And then we roll with that. For, for the videos we bought professional video lights and just inexpensive high-def video cameras.
And we have a ton of 'em all over the place. So, when you come into our, in our facility, The first thing people say is like, you guys look like your videographers and the photographers. And we said, well, we were in a visual way in a visual business, and that should be front and center. Part of the equipment that you get and relative to what you spend on a laser, it's just less than the tax on a laser.
It's. It's easy to do. And I wanted to get really good with the videos. So, I just went online and took a little online course on how to use premiere pro, which is a video editing software. It's what the standard is for pretty much all the video experts and you know, anybody who's smart enough to get through med school is, you know, easily able to get through one of these little online courses and in a short amount of time, just figuring out the basics of video editor.
To do what they need to do and it's not elaborate well, I'm not using any 3d stunts. I don't use doubles. I don't have like aliens landing in the operating room. I just want to reproduce a little snippet of what we're doing and be able to just share that all over the place. And we also invested heavily in sound equipment because nothing is worse than a video with bad sound.
And when I started doing podcasts, I got really into quality audio. Because I realized that the difference between a good video and a bad video is it's usually the audio you can get by with lousy image. If the light is off a little bit, but if you can't understand what they're saying, So
Catherine Maley, MBA
true. So, when it comes to getting the photos taken, I hear it over and over and over.
I can't get the patient to come back for their after photos, but I say to them, it has to become part of protocol, just like surgical protocol. You have to have a protocol to get that patient from the, from a to Z. And the Z part is get them back for those photos. Any tips there on how you're making that happen.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Well for the out-of-town patients, sometimes that's not possible. I've had patients fly in from Europe, from Asia and they're done. They're not going to come back on an airplane for 15 hours just to snap a picture. So, for those people, I just tell them, you know, set up your, your phone and I've made a few instructional, a little video, cartoony ones to show them what I want you to do.
And some of the most basic recommendation I tell them is take your cell phone, put it on video mode, prop it against the coffee cup, stand about five feet away and do a slow 360 real slow. And I'll just do some screenshots off of that. And just, just make sure that you're a blank background, like a pick, a solid-colored background, so that that's the easiest way to do.
And they could just email it to you or Dropbox it to you. And I donβt know if you're familiar with Dropbox but, they're, they have a I think w within the Dropbox where you can send out a link and even if the person doesn't have dropped. They can use the link; they can upload any video and you'll receive it into your folder.
So, I use that a lot, so they don't have to worry about the file's not too big or whatever, and it's totally encrypted. So, for people that are worried about HIPAA compliance, it's, it's totally compliant because it has the right level of.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Right. I either love cause I look at everyone's Instagram accounts.
I love when the patient sends in their photo, even with hair and makeup and clothes on and just saying, I'm just loving my new look and they just tell their story about you know, the, the journey, you know, what it was like before, what happened during the journey? How I feel. And then if you can do a screenshot where you show them before photo and then they're after in real life, I think, I didn't know that those are very compelling.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Yeah. That's, that's the finished product, you know, it's, you know, because people don't walk around in a, you know, it's mostly the way underwear, you know, in a, in, in the real world, you just want to. That person looks great with clothes on. I wonder what they do and that's really the whole point of it is to look good in the in the wild, the natural environment.
I
Catherine Maley, MBA
completely agree. So, let's talk about marketing in your practice. I would assume how much of your practice is still insurance-based versus cash.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
It's like a hobby for me. It's really, it's this digital. So, I would say I see, you know, I say on a regular day I see 30 pounds. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. And that all the way we've organized our schedule is in the mornings I normally operate from 10:00 AM until just after lunch, which is like one o'clock to two o'clock from two o'clock on, I do consultations and I'll do some guy in, he I'll do like maybe 10 guy knees and the rest is going to be their consultations or Botox and fillers.
And then that's, that's Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Wednesday, Friday is follow our days today is follow our day. My father is doing a case right now. And so, when I'm not, when I'm not in the operating room on these, on these big days, I'm either doing concept. Or I'm doing, I'm working on the practice.
I'm not actually doctoring. I'm working on marketing, I'm working on lead, lead retrievals. And we actually, we run two companies. I run a teaching company as well. So, I'm running that company as well. So, we're actually right now we're setting up a, a, an annual meeting. So, I'm just getting, I'm just calling the, all the companies I'm trying to get these guys roped in.
I'm calling in some big names to attract more companies. So, you know, I have basically two jobs. And so, we do all of that in 24 hours a day, five days a week. And then sometimes we have to squish it in on the weekend, a little bit,
Catherine Maley, MBA
the marketing, because you're doing something to be that busy. I would assume the reason I asked about the OB GYN side is are any of those patients coming over to the fun side of medicine?
And so, I would.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Yeah, all the time we have, we have old school marketing, we have posters on the wall. I mean, you can't walk past our building and not know that we do full blast everything. And once you're in there, you're surrounded by people with all kinds of, you know, little waists, big buds, all kinds of, you know, there's all kinds of stuff going on that you just realize instantly that these people are in the aesthetic field and the.
So, it's always top of mind for a lot of our clients that come in and just for the guy and he so much so that we, we never mentioned it, that they bring it up because we really feel it, you know, we shouldn't be pushing anybody, you know, they come in for a reason. And it's not the reason we're not pushing him.
Just like we don't preach somebody with, you know, coming in for a lipo. They'll get an annual checkup. Well, you know, it's not what they're there for.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Okay. And so, would you say most of your marketing is internal at this point? Or are you still doing a lot of external? I know you just invested in a new website where, where what's working for you,
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Instagram is working perfectly.
So, we we've gotten tons of leads for, from Instagram, but when I, when I bring a patient in. Even if they know us from Instagram, I'll say, how did you hear about us? And it's 99% of the time. They know somebody that we worked on or they you know, their, their hairdresser had some work done, or she was at the hair salon and she saw this lady to look great.
And., She asked her, you know, what, what, you know, what's your secret. And they were referred, but they check online to make sure that you're real because if you're not online, you're not real. You're just a, you know, you're just a rumor. So, Instagram has worked perfectly. Facebook works pretty well, but it tends to be an older clientele.
So, I would say that my, my younger one. Our Instagram all the way. And when you get to like the middle age ones, the ones that have kids they do a little more Facebook and a little less Instagram. So those are more Facebook. There's a bunch that are on neither. We don't do any print marketing. We don't do any television.
We don't do any radio because we feel that for our market, everybody's on their cell phones. So, what we're doing, basically, a social media channel. And during the pandemic, I started to feed a YouTube and I think we're going to go back to YouTube, but just as a repository of everything that we put out there, because it's a, it's a huge search engine and it's so easy to do, and you can just keyword the titles and it just shows right up.
So, it really has a lot of potential there. And it's just a no brainer.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, especially with the content you're showing some of the gynae kind of stuff, the cosmetic gynecology it on your website, it'll say you have to go to YouTube to watch it due to the age restrictions. And I would, I highly recommend you keep building up your YouTube channel.
You know, YouTube is the second largest search engine. And to your point about how are people finding out about you digitally? I swear. It happens all the time. A friend mentioned you to a friend, they go to your Instagram account, they go to your social to see who are you, Ben. They go to your website.
It, it happens that way a lot more often now than the other way around, because SEO, it's very difficult to give you the first page ranked on the search engines. It's very difficult if you're in a competitive area. So, a lot of the surgeons get lost in. Website when they should be looking at the other things that point to their website just an easier way to do it anyway.
I know you have a lot about our town. You're speaking Spanish. How much of your, how much all of that has to be helping? I love the out-of-town thing because. Well, number one, it's hard to get the SEO for that nowadays, because they want you to be so geo-specific, but it raises your credibility so much when you have patients flying in from all over.
And it's quite apparent on your website that that's happening. And then for the Spanish, you also, you don't make a huge, big deal out of it, but you definitely say Spanish. Is there some reason your website's not bilingual? You know how nowadays you can. Transcribe it
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
and make it, no, we just, you know, we just haven't gotten around to it.
But now that you put it out there, you give me one more thing to do this weekend.
I'll just make it out every, every page, every, yeah. I can just redo every other page and just make it in Spanish because all you do on Google, you just put copy page. You put in Google translate and it's.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Yeah, I think it's gotten really simple to do that. Same thing with podcasting. All of this has gotten so simple to do.
I say to my staff all the time, do not ask me anything until you have Googled it or gone to YouTube first, because that's where everything is. You need to know are those two places. So, let's talk about where things are heading, where do you feel. Things are going in our industry, you know, aesthetic surgery.
And how are you preparing for it? And that's where I want you to talk about, your other business sites.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Sure. Well, I think, I think that the past 16 months or so has pushed all the clientele to be comfortable with. And they have realized that they can get 99% of what they wanted to achieve in a consultation without ever stepping foot in the office.
So, I think that the, the next level of skills that, that need to be developed for a successful practice are the virtual engagement. And you can look at it as the world's most efficient way to screen through patients without having the burden, your staff. And your work hours, because when, when I, when I drive to work, I'm either listening to music or listening to a podcast, maybe even one of your podcasts.
And so that's, that's basically it's free time because I have to do it. I can't be at the office working, but if I can use some of that time to engage with Lee, I can screen through them very effectively. And I can tell the patient, you know, who might want to be coming in from another town. I can help you, or I can't help you, or we need to do something different than what you came in with.
And so, when they do come to the office, I'm getting the best patients. I've already primed them and they're already in process. So, we already have this momentum going in. And so, my, the quality of the.
And rate is much higher with virtual screening built in and the patients know how to do it now, which was the crucial step. I had to learn it too, but we did it and we all learned it, you know, zooming with our families all weekend long. When we were all locked down and everybody's comfortable with it and we don't even use zoom when they do the virtual, most of the time, it's just a phone call and they're texting me pictures and I'm just telling them what I think.
And at the end of that, I dictate a note with my phone and I just email it off to my secretary and we worked from there and we processed them in. If it's going to.
Catherine Maley, MBA
I really think that is so true. I, I love virtual. I, if, if I don't have to leave the house or, or where I'm at, I, I would rather sit still, it's so much more efficient, so much more convenient.
I know a lot of the rejuvenation, they still want to be like hands-on because it's a little more delicate with that, but body stuff, no reason now to not be doing a lot more virtual, so good for you. So, you know as the world keeps changing and it looks like we're going towards socialized medicine, is that going to help or hurt your business?
Or actually, which of your businesses? Because let's just talk about the business you're working on now, because I think you're filling a need in the industry.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Yeah. I think no matter what. Okay. When somebody is somewhere first, they're going to protect their territory. But what's happened over the last few years is that there has been increased ability to learn things from other specialties.
Increased opportunities to see quality work done by all specialists. So, hiding what you do behind closed doors is sort of fading away. If I want to see the world's best nose job, I can see it. If I want to see the world's best, this, this, this, and that. I can see it. And for a surgeon. Using the fingers. It isn't a difficult thing.
It's like driving a car once you know how to drive. You just want to see what the new area looks like and explore it. And you may look at it and say, I don't feel comfortable exploring that area, but if you do, you have the ability now you just go. Cadaver courses, or you connect with people who are willing to let you come in and watch anywhere in the world where before that was impossible.
So right now, is probably the best time to be a post-graduate educating yourself in the history of the world. You just have so much access to so many resources that no one has ever had in the history of the world. And that, that applies to everything that, that involves advanced learning. The other thing about it is that socialized medicine, the more it kicks in the less appealing it is to intelligent people because they realize they're just working harder and harder and harder and getting less and less and less, and they're more vulnerable than they ever were before.
Because most of these people are employees of large medical corporations. So, they have to follow rules that are made by non-physicians based solely on the economics of the system that they're in. And that's not something that people that gravitate to medicine swallow easily. They don't want. Yeah, I've never met a doctor that loves that to take orders, just to follow recipes.
And that that's, that's a sad, it's a sad situation for the people that got into the biz under a different paradigm that it just changed on them. So, this sort of allergic to that kind of environment, they don't like it. And when they look for opportunities, Their best opportunities. Aren't real estate.
Aren't getting a J D aren't getting an MBA. You know, aren't retiring, they're transferring your skill sets within medicine. The something that the, that does feed that need to be independent work directly on people. And it's just person to person rather than person with insurance company insurance company, with doctor and they're disconnected.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, I think you're doing such interesting work. I think you've done a great job. Niching it, the riches are in the niches and you're doing a really good job of that. Any last comments as we wrap this.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Yeah, well, Catherine, I can't emphasize enough that part of the skillset of the modern aesthetic practitioner is a sales savvy marketing savvy and negotiating savvy as well as good customer service, because all, all of that plays into the to the biz.
Everybody shops. With the five-star rating and you sort of reverse engineer that by looking at the low ratings. And they'll tell you, the facials will tell you everything not to do just by reading people's bad reviews. You know, some of them are crazy, but some of them are very educational. So, when I see a competitor.
Or when I look at my own reviews, I look at the bad reviews as the ones where, where the gold is, you know? So, if you can sift through that stuff and find the needs that people are asking for, that's where they are, the happy ones you're doing fine. But if you want to expand your reach and get a little bit better, get a little bit more, just explore better reviews all over the world.
And you'll, you'll find out instantly what people like and what they done.
Catherine Maley, MBA
A hundred percent. So, Dr. Pelosi, how can others find out more about you if they wanted to learn.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Well, I made it easy. Go to DrMarcoPelosi.com and that's a pretty good landing page for, for anybody that wants to reach me for any reason.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Yeah, sure. Is thank you so much for being on Beauty and the Biz. I appreciate it. And I can't wait to see you at the next conference. I hope we go live again someday and I'll see you out there.
Dr. Marco Pelosi III
Fantastic. Thanks for having me on Catherine. Good luck to you and have a great week.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Thank you so much. Okay.
Everyone that wraps it up for this session. If you would please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz, so you don't miss any other episodes. And if you've got any questions or feedback for me or Dr. Pelosi, you can certainly leave them on my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can always DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA. Thanks so much and we'll talk again soon.
βπDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherine's FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinema... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMal... Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine...
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Beauty and the Biz - Problem Patients Checklist
Todayβs episode is about Preventing Problem Patients by using a Checklist and other strategies.
So, we all the saying βAn ounce of prevention is a worth a pound of cure.β
I discovered Ben Franklin coined this timeless phrase back in 1736 to remind Philadelphia citizens to remain vigilant about fire awareness and prevention.
This advice works just as well today in our own industry.
A little precaution BEFORE a problem occurs is preferable to a lot of fixing it afterwards.
As a cosmetic surgeon, you get all the risk when dealing with the cosmetic patient.
You hope/believe the prospective patient is hearing you when you say:
βI canβt make it perfect, but I can make it a lot better.β
The good news is most consumers make for great cosmetic patients. They have done a lot of research online and read/watch/heard about the good, the bad and the ugly.
They are friendly, reasonable, and realistic.
But the few patients who arenβt, can wreak havoc with your reputation and mental health.
So, you want to Plan Ahead to Prevent Problem Patients
What can trip you up are your own emotions during the consultation process. The two major ones being ego and greed.
It can be difficult to say no to prospective patients who want to give you money. Thatβs completely understandable.
Same thing with your ego. Itβs so much easier during the consultation process to ignore your gut telling you to beware than to say no.
When interviewing surgeons about problem patients, they repeatedly tell me, βI knew there were red flags, but I thought I could manage them.β
Most of the time you can, but why not set up a process to help you stay out of these sticky situations that come back to haunt you later?
I recommend you get together with your team and review what you have discovered from experiencing problem patients. Looking back, what were the warning signs?
Then develop your own pre-surgical red flags checklist.
Below is an example to give you a good start:
Red Flags Checklist
- Their significant other makes the appointments and schedules the surgery, rather than the patient doing it herself.
- Rude to staff
- Lying
- Demanding
- Self-centered
- Inflexible
- Whiny
- Bad-talking other surgeons
- Over dramatic
- Too emotional / Too unemotional
- Does not understand the procedure
- Repetitive behaviors
- On meds (Call their psychiatrist)
- Wonβt take photos
- Wonβt sign consent forms
- Vague about post-operative support
- Your staff has reservations.
- You just donβt like the patient.
Make it protocol for you and your staff to go over this checklist during the consultation process.
If you can check any of these boxes β ABORT or, at least, BEWARE!
Then, there is the Post-Op Problem Patient
Even though you were careful with patient selection at the front end, you can still end up with a post-op patient who is not happy. It happens.
Whatβs most important is what you do about it that makes all the difference in how it plays out.
So rather than wing it when it happens when emotions run high, set up guidelines now to deal with it in a rational way.
Here are 4 steps to help you work with and prevent problem patients:
1) Listen
You canβt solve a problem you donβt know you have, and you canβt assume anything. Thatβs why listening is critical.
Give the patient your undivided attention. Use their name and eye contact. Donβt rush.
Listen to a patientβs complaints without interrupting. Sometimes, the patient just wants to be heard and understood. Then repeat back what they said to ensure you are both on the same page. This alone could diffuse them.
It will also help you determine if this is a real issue or just a complaint the patient wants to share with you, get off their chest and move on.
2) Acknowledge
Avoid this temptation to be defensive. Donβt make excuses, donβt qualify, and donβt disparage a patient for speaking their mind. Just listen and learn.
Offer a sincere apology for how they feel. Not for any wrongdoing on your part, but you are sorry they are not happy.
3) Ask Questions
Be curious and probe deeper with questions to figure out how serious the situation is. For example, βKaren, whatβs prompting this? Did someone say something to you?β
You are looking for the WHY they feel the way they do. Maybe they went back online to research their concerns and got themselves worked up from other patient stories.
You just donβt know unless you ask.
Another great question to ask to figure out where the patientβs head is at is, βKaren, if you were me, what would you do?β
This puts the patient in your shoes. They may surprise you and have a simple request that would satisfy them.
Again, you just donβt know unless you ask.
And 4) Do Something!
Make it right! Donβt just promise to make it right, actually take a proactive step in the right direction.
Offer solutions such as cortisone shots, lymphatic massage, a touch up in the office, comp your fees or discount OR fees to go back into surgery.
Then thank them for being reasonable and working with you to rectify the situation.
So to recap itsβ listen-ack-ask questions-do something
Oftentimes, you can turn this problem patient into a raving fan by handling the situation promptly with composure, assurance, and poise so it doesnβt blow up into something bigger.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com or DM me on Instagram.
And, if you havenβt done so already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a review since that helps me reach a larger audience.
Thanks so much and talk soon!
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
ββ www.CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Beauty and the Biz
Convert Consults Using Risk Reversal
Risk reversal is a proven strategy that makes it impossible for patients to say no. It's been around forever and is used in other industries, and by top companies such as Nordstrom.
Learn how you can use the risk reversal strategy in your own practice to convert more consultations and set your practice apart form the rest!
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com or DM me on Instagram.
And, if you havenβt done so already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a review since that helps me reach a larger audience.
Thanks so much and talk soon!
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
ββ www.CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Beauty and the Biz
3 Common Mistakes Plastic Surgeons Make
Oftentimes the simplest of things are overlooked the most frequently, yet affect your bottom line more than you realize, so this blog post will cover 3 common mistakes plastic surgeons make in their practice.
Mistakes in easy, day to day tasks can lead to confusion, chaos, and frustration throughout your office, and impact your plastic surgery practice in a huge way.
Itβs easy to miss whatβs not working when you have your hands full and are focused on your patientsβ needs, as well as managing staff and performing surgeries.
See if you are making any of these common mistakes and then address them so your practice and profits flow better.
MISTAKE #1: Not Having an A-Team Supporting You
Surrounding yourself with an outstanding team may seem like a daunting task, but ultimately those working for you are vital to your success.
You may need to evaluate your workplace and ask yourself; Are the people on your team helping or hurting your practice?
While working as a business and marketing consultant to cosmetic practices for decades, I have seen a wide variety of behaviors that go unchecked and hurt your image. For example:
- Staff is charming to the surgeon and disagreeable to everyone else;
- You think the staff is following up, taking photos, getting consents, but you find out
itβs not happening; - The receptionist is not the right fit for the front desk and is losing callers, and it goes on and on.
If you have experienced any of these common scenarios, it may be clear that you do not have the right team in place.
If you have your doubts about who has your back and are questioning their value to your practice, try out the simple exercise of a βDaily Dutiesβ form for one week.
Beginning on Monday, the members of your team will write down every task they actually perform throughout the day and record the amount of time that it takes for them to complete each task.
Theyβll do this real-time so you get an accurate accounting of what they actually do β NOT what you think they do. On Friday, they will submit the completed form to you.
By evaluating these forms, you will be able to see who on your team values their time and work by thoroughly filling out their form.
It will also show you those who rushed through the assignment and carelessly completed the form. You will also see which team members donβt complete it at all, and therefore do not value their work, or you.
This exercise will give you a better idea of which staff members take their jobs seriously and care about the practice as a whole, as well as those who donβt.
It will also indicate who does what. So many times, a certain team member was doing certain tasks and when they left the practice, nobody picked up where they left off.
Or, you have 2 or 3 different team members ordering inventory with no one person responsible so they either order too much or not at all since they assumed someone else would handle it.
Hereβs MISTAKE #2: Not using the resources you already have to attract more patients
Letβs consider the value of just one of your patients and how they can grow your practice for you.
On average, a typical cosmetic patient has approximately 200 people such as friends, family members, colleagues, neighbors, hair stylists, gym buddies, etc. in their circle of influence.
Now imagine that your patient refers them to you, and in turn these new patients refer those in their circle of influence and so on. Your patient database and revenues would grow exponentially with the compounding effect.
The way to get these word-of-mouth referrals is to set up systems that happen automatically as part of your processes so your patients know you value them and their referrals.
A great example of this process can be as easy as taking photos of your patients once they are healed and making them readily available to them so they can show off your work to their friends.
In my book βYour Aesthetic Practice/What Your Patients Are Saying, I asked patients about their before/after photos and hereβs what they said:
- 82% stated they wanted their before/after photos
- 76% stated they would have shown them to others, if only they were made available to them
But to succeed with this, itβs all in the presentation.
The best time to provide a patient with their photos is at their post-op appointment when they are healed and happy. This is the time when they will be most excited about their results.
Presented them with A handwritten note thanking them for their trust in you, along with their photos, can speak volumes!
Be sure to include your name, telephone number, and website in the notecard so their friends can contact you to book their own consultation with you.
This simple process can be used for both surgical and non-surgical procedures alike.
Another simple, yet effective process to grow your practice is with the use of gift certificates.
So many practices offer them, but it seems to be an unspoken secret in your office. How do you change that?
The best way to market your gift certificates is at checkout with an eye-catching gorgeous display and customized gift bags.
A sign that reads βNeed a Quick Gift?β is sure to grab the attention of those busy patients standing with their wallets out and credit cards in hand.
Not only does this increase your revenue for the day, but it also introduces a new patient to your practice and itβs convenient for patients needing a quick gift their family and friends will love.
And common MISTAKE #3 is Not having a clear patient attraction plan in place
Something to always remember is βIf you fail to plan, you plan to fail.β By failing to plan how you acquire new patients, you are setting yourself up to lose would-be patients to your competition.
Acquiring these new patients is so much more than just one email, one social media post, one Google ad. It requires a persistent plan that keeps your name in front of your current patients, as well as new perspective patients online looking for cosmetic rejuvenation.
Because in todayβs noisy world, you need up to 31 points of contact to get someoneβs attention so you need to be everywhere your preferred prospective cosmetic patients are.
You need lots of poles in the pond working together. So, in addition to your Website, SEO and google ads, put together a plan that includes lots of other strategies such as:
- Themed emails
- Fun social media posts
- Website banners leading to opt-in pages to collect their name, email & cell phone
- In-house signage and
- Texting
And, once you create your new patient attraction plan, be sure to assign tasks to each team member to ensure things get executed.
This way, you allow your staff to focus on practice-building in a fun and engaging way, so they feel more part of your success.
Hereβs an example, choose a theme for each month, as well as a marketing plan like this:
Januaryβs Theme β βShow Off a New You This Yearβ
Now make a list of tasks and who is responsible. For example:
- Google ads for Tummy Tuck and Mommy Makeover (Web Company)
- Website spotlights with videos explaining Tummy Tuck and Mommy Makeover (Surgeon)
- Email to Patient List with January tummy tuck special (assigned to Karen)
- Social Media Posts β 2x per week (assigned to Sandy)
- In-house Signage (assigned to Sue)
- Add more MM B/A Photos and testimonials to Website (assigned to Ken)
- Write a blog post (assigned to Sophia)
- Text certain patients your tummy tuck special (assigned to Karen)
Now everyone on your team has clarity and focus for January. Just do that every month and see how much better your results are when the plan is clear.
Once you fix these all-too-common mistakes that are seen throughout plastic surgery offices, you will find that your practice is running more smoothly and effectively.
If you could use some help fine tuning your practice to run on all cylinders, letβs talk. I can show you how other successful practices handled the roadblocks in their way and are now set up to succeed.
Just leave me a message at www.catherinemaley.com and Iβll get back to you.
Ok, thatβs it for this week and I hope you got a lot of value from this.
If so, please subscribe to Beautyy and the biz and share it with your staff and colleagues.
If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com or DM me on Instagram.
And, if you havenβt done so already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a review since that helps me reach a larger audience.
Thanks so much and talk soon!
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
ββ www.CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Beauty and the Biz
This episode is entitled: Plastic Surgeons and Branding
I am often asked about branding for plastic surgeons, so I wanted to weigh in on the question, βDo I need to βbrandβ me?
Frankly, thereβs no one right answer. There is only the right answer for you.
First, what is branding?
Branding is the process of communicating your unique differentiator that sets you apart from your competition.
It leaves a memorable impression on prospective patients and tells them what to expect from you when they do become a patient.
Branding also increases the value of your practice, provides your staff with direction, and makes acquiring new cosmetic patients easier because they are attracted to the βpersonaβ that gives them a certain perspective of you.
Examples of branding techniques include the use of logos, website design, imagery, your advertising, customer service, your reputation⦠to name a few.
But itβs also how your phones are answered, how your staff dresses and acts, how clean your bathroom is and every other detail that tells patients what you value.
To simplify your own branding, hereβs an exercise to build your own successful brand:
- Define how you want to be perceived. Ask yourself, how do you want patients to describe their experience with you
- Based on your answer, organize your practice based on that experience
- Now communicate that experience with other prospective patients
- And be consistent
This exercise will also help you determine your target market. Because if you are not liking the quality of patients you are seeing, your branding is off.
Certain patients donβt just show up at your door by accident. You are doing something to attract them so review your branding to βup-levelβ it.
However, in my experience, hereβs a more likely scenario that happens with your brandingβ¦.
You get a lot of calls from the sales reps from your local TV, radio stations, magazines and billboard companies telling you to βincrease your Branding and Name Recognitionβ by advertising with them.
The contracts are usually long term and can run hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.
The media agencies show you their demographic charts of their audience and promise you celebrity status since youβll be recognized throughout your community.
Youβre tempted because you believe youβll be a lot busier if more people know about you, right?
So, the question becomes,
Is it Smart to Invest in βName Recognition and Brandingβ?
Maybe. Maybe not. Letβs dig deeper.
Letβs look at the making of a Brand.
Branding is what makes prospective consumers feel a certain way about you and your services.
Itβs a multi-billion-dollar industry that caters to the big guys like Mercedes, Apple and McDonalds.
The big companies are spending a small fortune on media placement, so the ads are pretty much everywhere and then they hope that people react positively to them.
The issue is there is NO WAY to track results since these are βName Recognitionβ ads.
Ad agencies in New York make millions off of these Fortune 500 companies because they are rewarded for winning awards for being creative β NOT for bringing in tangible results.
Since you are not Coca-Cola with an endless ad budget, you canβt afford to invest in name recognition advertising.
Their branding ads donβt have a measurable call to action so there is no way to measure your return on investment.
Hereβs my recommendationβ¦
Before you spend another dime on this type of practice advertising, answer this question:
Do you, as a plastic surgeon, really NEED to be a household name?
Does EVERYBODY need to know you or just those who are interested in cosmetic surgery?
How much is it worth to you to see your name and face in lights and have people say,
βHey, you look familiarβ?
(Be honest. If thatβs what you want, thatβs fine, but it will cost you).
Your brand as a surgeon defines what you stand for. Itβs your values. Itβs the emotions you evoke so prospective patients FEEL safe AND TRUST YOU.
For you, branding is in the details. Itβs the many factors that help prospective patients choose YOU over your competitors.
Details like your website, your online reputation, your phones, office and furniture and on and on.
So, I suggest you first concentrate your branding efforts on things such as:
- 5-Star Patient reviews
- Excellent before/after photos
- Website design that is easy to navigate
- Friendly, warm staff who treat your patients like family
- A patient experience that is better than the one they get with your competitors
This is much more important than being recognized by the public who would never even consider plastic surgery.
Ok, I hope this gives you clarity and If you want to talk more about your specific situation, just leave me a message at www.CatherineMaley.com or DM me on Instagram.
And, if you havenβt done so already, please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and leave me a review since that helps me reach a larger audience.
Thanks so much and talk soon!
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
ββ www.CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Hello,
Itβs getting more difficult to grab and hold the attention of new perspective patients so try something different.
Since consumers today are used to getting their information in longer webinar format online, a patient webinar makes sense when you have important educational content to cover, especially with visual images.
I have personally worked with surgeons on their own patient webinars that have brought in up to $100K during the event and much more later because they are so memorable.
Listen in to this weekβs Beauty and the Biz episode called,
How to Do a Cosmetic Surgery Patient Webinar as I walk you through the steps to a successful and profitable online event.
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
ββ www.CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
My guest today is Dr. Andres Gantous. He's a double-board certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon, in private practice in Toronto, Canada. β
βHe specializes in revision and reconstructive rhinoplasty as well as incisionless otoplasty.
Dr. Gantous is an Associate Professor and Head of the division of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery at the University of Toronto where he has earned theirβ best teacher awardβ nominations year after year.
βHe also speaks at medical conferences all over the world and thatβs how our paths crossed.
βWelcome to Beauty and the Biz Dr. Gantous. Itβs a pleasure to have you.
TOPICS OF DISCUSSION:
BUSINESS:
ββ Let me start by asking if you are enjoying the surge of cosmetic patients like we are experiencing in the states?
β ββ Why facial PS?
β ββ Journey from academia to private practice
β ββ Buying another surgeonβs practice:
β’ Why that practice?
β’ How was it valued?
β’ Transition period
β’ Do differently?
ββ ββ Private SX facility at The Cumberland Clinic in Yorkville, Toronto (how far from your practice?)
β ββ Staff β manage & motivate
β ββ Business Mistakes
βMARKETING:
β ββ How do you differentiate yourself?
β ββ Your Website shows art instead of models? Your Art?
β ββ 3D imaging β PTS upload photos + virtual
β ββ $175 consult fee displayed
β ββ % of Face vs rhino β Different target markets
β ββ Surgical vs non-surgical
β ββ Tweak-ments
β ββ Marketing β Whatβs Working? = Social Media
β βMINDSET / PERSONAL:
β ββ Whatβs DRIVING you?
β ββ Mentors, books, courses?
β ββ Hobbies include painting, drawing, martial arts, reading and fluent in Spanish, Italian and French.
β ββ Dog Arthur
β ββ Words of wisdom for other practices?
β ββ Something interesting about you?
β
To contact Dr. Gantous, or to learn more about his practice, visit his website at:
www.TorontoFacialPlastic.com
Transcript:
Interview with Dr. Andres Gantous
By Catherine Maley
August 4, 2021
Catherine Maley, MBA
Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing beside of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.
I have a very special guest today. It's Dr. Andres Gantous, and he's a double board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in private practice in Toronto, Canada. And he's also the associate professor of head oh, professor and head of the division of facial plastic and reconstructive surgery, at the university of Toronto, where he has earned their βbest teacher awardβ year after year.
Now, Dr. Gantous also speaks at medical conferences all over the world, and that's actually where our paths met. I think we were in a few places. I remember Vegas. But welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the Beauty and the Biz podcast, Dr. Gantous. How are you?
Dr. Andres Gantous
I am well, Catherine, it was very nice to be here with you and seeing you again after, you know, not having any conferences for a while, but it's a pleasure, pleasure to be here and to see you and to talk.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Thanks so much. So of course, before we get started, I have to ask, are you enjoying this same cosmetic patient surge that we're enjoying here in the states? Are you enjoying that also in Canada?
Dr. Andres Gantous
Absolutely. We also have the same surgeon, Canada, at least in the larger cities, as far as I know. I think all my colleagues in the field have noticed it and it's been great.
So, of the bad things of the pandemic, that's been one of the good things for us, at least, and hopefully for the patients as well.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Isn't that amazing. I mean, I've been through recessions with the plastic surgeons because I've been at this for a long time. And usually, plastic surgery was one of the first.
You know, the first industries to get hit. And this time it looks like all the money went over to cosmetic rejuvenation rather than travel and restaurants, I assume.
Dr. Andres Gantous
I think, I think we can owe it all to this, to this media, which assumed
Catherine Maley, MBA
thank God. Okay. So, I hope it lasts too. So, Dr. Gantous., let's just start at the beginning.
How did you end up in facial plastic surgery versus any other specialties?
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah, good question. I you know, Even before I went to medical school, I want you, I want it to be a doctor since I was a little kid, but I come from a family of architects on both sides on my dad's side, on my mom's side. So, I was always very, very in tune with, with the arts and with design and things like that.
And as a matter of fact, when I finished high school, we had to do mandatory vocational testing and you know, I had. I wanted to go to medical school. And in Latin America, you go to medical school straight from high school. You don't do a pre-med degree. And I already was accepted. So, the, the lady who, the psychologist who did my test and he told me, well, You know, and the only reason I'm going to recommend for you to go to medical school is because you score the highest on, on BI examinations.
But you know, you really should consider going into graphic designer architecture. So, I've always had that artistic side to me. So, once I was in medical school, that didn't take very long for me to realize that I wanted to be a surgeon. I really. Needed to express things with my hands, with that.
That's what, what, what guided me. And I think that's always the first divide for most medical students are doctors to be as whether you're going to be a surgeon or a medical person or a pathologist or radiologist or something. I'm like, wow. So, for me, surgery was, was the, the thing that, that really guided.
And then as I started doing my internship and I'm old enough that we had to do rotating internships. And so, on before you got into a specialty training, I realized that I liked plastic surgery and I thought I was just going to do a general plastic surgery residency. And then I started working. I wanted to train in the states.
I, you know, I grew up in Latin America and I, I worked with, I worked with a head and neck surgeon that had trained at Manhattan eye and ear, and he did a lot of facial plastic surgery. And I realized that I sort of liked that a lot. And I'll say one, two, when I went to train in LA, I decided, well, I'm I going to do either plastics or had a neck surgery, whatever I get into first.
And as I did my rotations, I decided I'd like had a neck better than general plastic surgery. I really didn't like a lot of the hand stuff and some other stuff, other stuff. And I like most of the stuff and had a neck. And that's why I ended up in that's in this specialty and always would be with the plan of doing facial plastic and reconstructive surgery.
So, it's kind of a long process, but I think it has to do just with my innate artistic bend that I've always had and the things that I, that I like. And that's the, you know, it ended up being the perfect fit for me.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Okay. So, did you start your career in academia? Or how, what, what did you do
Dr. Andres Gantous
next step after, after training, after training in the in the head and neck are involved, you had a neck program in Toronto.
I did a, I did a fellowship in cranial facial surgery with the plastic surgery department here in Toronto as well. And then the question was, you know, whether to go straight into full academia or have a combined community academic practice. I ended up, I ended up choosing the latter, so I've always had an academic appointment.
And, but I worked in a. Partially affiliated teaching hospital that became a full affiliated teaching hospital eventually. But I like to have, I ha I wanted to have a little bit more freedom than being a full, full academic, but with that, obviously teaching responsibilities were always set there about residents and, and fellows and things like that, all along medical students.
But at the same time, I was able to develop a little bit. Of a private practice on the side. Canada is a little bit different because, you know, we, we have socialized medicine in reality. So, so whatever it's not cosmetic is, is a government run. So, you know, we, we I've always had that opportunity to do a little bit of both.
And, but yes, my, you know, my academic appointments and my, you know, still exists. You know, gone through the ranks a little bit over time, but it looks combination of both since the beginning more academic and one at the start and then, you know, switching over with as I get older and a little bit more.
Great.
Catherine Maley, MBA
All right. So how much of your practice is private versus.
Dr. Andres Gantous
At this stage in my life, probably 80% is private and 20% is government right now. Very nice balance. I like it very much. I think I'll probably end up going to 90 10 and in the next couple of years and we'll see how that goes after that, but government practice.
Unfortunately, even though there's a lot of rewarding stuff in what I do there as, as usual bureaucracy gets in the way, and it makes things a little bit less pleasurable.
Catherine Maley, MBA
I get those calls quite regularly saying, I don't think I can take the hospital setting any longer. I can't do anything here. My hands are tied.
I feel so deported, you know, so but it's really tough. I can imagine to jump from. Peace of mind of having that salary and having that hospital backing to going out on your own. What, what kind of mindset did you have when you were saying to yourself? Like how long did it take you to say I've got to, I've gotta have more than just this equity.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah, it took me a few years. I'll tell you about my chat took me a few years and it was, I did it slowly. Right? I did it slowly. I started building up my private practice, little by little, I ended up you know, ended up, you know, growing, growing that part of the practice a little bit more You know, trying to get a second space, a second office that I could, that I could work at and not combine it with a hospital practice too much.
And so, it probably, it was a transition period in my then the mindset part is a transition period that probably took, you know, anywhere, anywhere from five to 10 years to. To, to do that. Right. And until, until then I was kind of able to take a full jump. I think a lot of it, it has to do with that financial stability and other commitments.
Right. I mean, I didn't want to do a whole lot while I was what I had big financial commitments in terms of education of my kids, mortgages, things like that. I didn't want to sort of suddenly find myself, you know, not, not being able to pay that. So. That, that, that I think plays a big thing in the mindset as to how you do things.
For
Catherine Maley, MBA
sure. And, and eventually you have to decide and jump, you know, you have to make the best of it. There's that saying? You know, nothing happens until you decide. And then I don't know if there's some kind of saying for that, the part that here's the, the most interesting part that I know the audience will appreciate.
When I met you, you were You were speaking at some meeting and I was introduced to you by another surgeon. We both know. Well, and he said, oh, meet Dr. Again too. He, he just joined my practice or bought my practice. I can't remember now, but to give me that, because that's another huge one that it's another transitional time in your career where you say to yourself, okay, I have private practice, but what is this it or what's next?
And you happen to train. Yeah, so let's tie
Dr. Andres Gantous
that's. Exactly. And that's why really, really, that was the big leap. I had, I had rented a space and use the space in, in what is this office now from the other surgeon that we both know? It was a very well-respected academic and private medicine. A surgeon in Toronto, one of the fathers of facial plastic surgery in this country.
And you know, I use, I used to, I rented space from him that this was the, where, where I was developing that private practice. It was what worked the best for me. And you know, he, he basically informed me, you know, gave me a timeline for his retirement. He was going to close shop. And you know, he was putting his practice for sale and he asked me what I would be interested.
So, I obviously, you know, was interested, although I was very, a little bit reluctant and, you know, economically and financially, I was trying to serve, figure out what was this going to be a good thing or not? And, you know, make a long story short. I mean, we, we met, we, we agreed on terms. I got the financing that I needed and I.
You know, just jumped on board. Right? So that, that was really the best decision I've made. And you know, most of my professional career in terms of how things turned up out, but it could have gone either way. Right. But I had the confidence that it was going to work well. And it, it was just the way we did this, that made the huge difference.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So how long had you been in that practice before this house?
Dr. Andres Gantous
I had, I had been, I had been in this situation, you know, working in, in this office that we were, we weren't working together. We're not as soldiers right there that I just rented space. I paid him for, for space, for secretarial work and Swan.
I had my own practice coming here right on the days that he was in the door. I could be here because nobody would know what he was using the office. And probably, I probably had been doing that for about 10 years.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Oh, okay. So, the big question is how do you value this practice? What are you buying? Because that becomes a very big question.
When it comes time for money to change hands, you know,
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah. So, so that, that, that's a, that's a good question because medical practices, as opposed to the United States and Canada are never sold, right? Because you know, the government practice that says you don't need selling, you can, you can hang up your shingle and you're going to be busy in two seconds.
You know, with, with government covered things. Whereas, you know, cosmetic practices that are private are not often put up for sale symptoms or disclosed. There's not some market that, that hasn't been, it really hasn't been tapped into too much. Right. Most of the surgeons that I know will have just retired, some have tried to sell at exorbitant prices and nobody bites.
So, what happened in this case is that The, the value of the practice was based on not the surgical practice, because to me buying a surgery practice doesn't make much sense because. You know, how, how do you, how do you, how do you assure that people are going to come and have surgery with you? Right.
But the new, the other surgeon and most of those people had already had had their operations. So, it doesn't make much sense. So, this surgeon had a very, very big filler and a neurotoxin practice. So, there was, it generated quite a lot of money a year in terms of that, it was a big, big practice with that.
He did all his injectables himself, had a nurse and that helped him with that. So that is something that we agreed that had value, right? Because he, we thought that probably a good 80% of the, of that patient population would come and still come and have their injectables done because that's something a little bit easier too, to have confidence in somebody else.
So, so that was about that. That was how we value that practice and how we made the purchase with certain agreements, of course, of how that was going to happen, which are very important.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Did you, did you take over the lease? Did you buy a building? Did you buy the furniture? Did you buy the patient?
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah. So basically, what we did is I took over the lease of the of the office space.
I made you know, we made a commitment that he was gonna stay on for, you know, at least six months. And he did have stopped his surgical practice. So, the agreement in general was I was going to take over the, lease the salaries of the employees, or I wanted to retain. And I retained all the employees except for the esthetician who had decided to retire as well.
So, I hadn't re I didn't replace her until very recently. And basically what, what we did was that he stayed on and, you know, he paid me rent, right. And he paid me from work for the consumables and stuff like that. And he paid. So, we, we, we switched, you know, complete opposite as to the arrangement that we had exactly the same.
Right. So, he gave me a small percentage of what he was building to cover for, you know, secretarial and, and, and rent. And but. And on top of that, the agreement was that he dreamed that six months he was going to introduce me to the patients that I sent Jack. So, I would take, yeah. And that was, that was the key element, right?
So, the days that, you know, at least once a week or two half days a week, I would come over and I would meet. And he would introduce me to his patients as he was you know, I got to meet them. I got to see how he injected them, how he did things a little bit different than what I did, how I did things.
And but I got to know, I got to know that people with that came the Goodwill part and the Goodwill part was the surgery. So, he had a busy surgical practice. I didn't buy his surgical practice, but there were patients that are still coming and calling the office. So, You know, in that, in that in, in that first six months I operated on, on.
You know, probably 50 patients that were not patients of mine, but there are patients of his that were coming back and, and he said, now Dr. has taken over. I'm not doing any surgery and there you go. So, so that was an incredible asset to me. Right? Because you, you know, that is something that I, that I, that I was able to monetize very easily to take that transfer that amount of Goodwill into something that was concrete.
And in the meantime, getting to know his long-term patients that were coming, you know, on a fairly regular basis for injections, and these are the type of patients that do keep, keep on coming back, we had estimated about 80% retention, and I think it was more like 95% retention. I think we've had over the three years since I took over, I think we've had two or three patients that have requested their charts to go elsewhere.
Okay. Good for you too, Ben. Fantastic. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA
That Goodwill piece is not talked about enough and not focused on enough, but it's transference of credibility. His patients have to know that you are the next best thing to him. So, I highly recommend when during our transitional period, I would even get it in writing that you'll do videos together.
He'll do Instagram together. You'll he'll, he'll introduce you in creative ways to just constantly. From him to you, you know, because you really need those patients to stay put. Did you like his kind of patients or did you want a different demographic? Was there any,
Dr. Andres Gantous
yeah, I, I truly like his patient. I mean, he, he had, he had the perfect patient population, right.
He had patients well-established or Antonians with a lot of old money elites of every sword. Right. So, it's the type of patient population that he built a life. Building being a native Torontonian, being from, you know, the right circles. He built this practice over, over a lifetime. And so, I was very lucky to be able to keep that type of practice.
Right. I mean, I, you know, I, I, I like my own practice that I had, which. Blended it and folded in very nicely. You know, I have, you know, I had a little bit of a different demographic and I had and I still have patients from, you know, a little bit more multicultural in, in stream sense, but the patient population that I inherited for him was great.
They're very loyal customers. They. They come back. They, you know, they, once they like you, they like you, you can't do anything wrong. So, it's, and you know, and they have the means to, to purchase the services at a level that I wasn't used to.
Catherine Maley, MBA
That's what you get from that you see, you can, up-level your mindset.
Yeah. And your demographics, you know, when you hang around with somebody else who had done that, he showed you the way and you took it so good for you. Yeah. Did the staff, let me talk about the staff for a second because you say that you retain this. Which can be fantastic, but it can also be a train wreck when they start saying that's not how we used to do it.
That's not how we do it. Was there any of that or was that I at all?
Dr. Andres Gantous
It was great. It was great because he had put his stuff on contract for the last couple of years. Right. Just he had done everything. He had announced his retirement plan. So, he did it all legally the way it was. And then basically when, you know, I, I had a talk with all of them beforehand and I asked them whether they were willing to stay.
Right. And at that point, the esthetician sort of said, well, I, I, you know, I think I'm going to retire as well. And that was fine. Right. So, I didn't, I didn't ha I didn't replace her immediately because I, I wanted to have a little bit more comfort that this was gonna happen and it was gonna work the way I wanted it to work.
Right. So, I had a good chat with all with all of them. I, you know, and I knew them because I work here. Right. So, it's not like I was an unknown person coming in. They knew me and they knew they knew he did things a little bit different. So, it was no problem. I, I, you know, we, we did new contracts on them and it was, it was very funny because my, my our, our assistant, the office you know, I say the stent, you know, the receptionist, she still has feisty, you know, little Italian Argentinian woman and yeah, very young, very, very pretty.
And she. This one switch allegiances like this, like this, the moment, the moment. I signed; I paid her first paycheck. If I was, that was it you know, do I have to do that for him? She would ask me, I go, yeah, he's, you know, he cared for him for many years. You're still going to do that. So, so it was great.
And our nurse I've also known for a long, long time and she was great and, you know, she nicest person in the world. Right. So, so it worked out very well. I had no issues with staff. No issues with bringing in new ways of doing things. And I changed things right. You know, I brought my EMR into the practice, which, you know, he didn't have right.
We started switching things, doing little things like that. And, you know, so it worked very well. And then, you know, I brought a little bit more technology into, into the, into the practice that that was missing. So. Other than that, you know, our styles are not that different in terms of how we treat patients, how we do things, how we treat people.
There's not a whole lot of difference in that. I think I like to think we're both very nice guys, so
Catherine Maley, MBA
right. I think you are. So, when you look back at that whole period of transition, is there anything you would have done differently or recommend others do. If they're thinking about doing
Dr. Andres Gantous
something like that?
Not really. Not really. I mean, I it, it was so smooth and it worked so well that I had, I had no issues with that. Right. I, you know, I don't think I would have done anything different. It worked the way I expect it to work. The, the money that I paid for the, for the practice, I mean, And the first year.
Right. So, yeah, so it was not there was nothing that could have gone, you know, any better than, than what it did. I don't have any regrets whatsoever and I don't think I would've changed anything. I did. I did, again, I would've done the same thing. Right. Does it the same thing, you know, I just, I just want it to change.
I just wanted it to change the physical space a little bit. I wanted to tune it up a little bit and I really do. You know, I probably would have done that a little bit sooner, but I, I let the doctor stay in his office here for a little bit longer than I probably would've because he, he was, he was having some issues at home in terms of their youngest daughter, having some issues with w with renovations of her house and they had full house.
Couldn't move all the stuff out at the time. So, one, a little bit longer than expected, but I did not want to sorry about that. I did not want to start doing any renovations while he was still, you'd
Catherine Maley, MBA
have to close up shop while you renovated, or did you practice during the renovation?
Dr. Andres Gantous
She did.
I did. I did close. And it took me a while to do it and then COVID hit, I was kind of doing it a little bit earlier and then. You know, I just, I just wasn't able to, I, it took me a while to get the right contractor, then, you know, we have the design done and, and so on. And so that, that it's a process. It takes, it took about a year longer than I wanted to do stuff.
And then I close for three weeks. We got the place, but it was, my contractor was very good. So, I close for three weeks. I took a little space next door that was at dentist hat that they let me put some of my stuff. And I, I saw, I saw patients one week and then I just kind of closed the rest of the time.
I think that I was going on a trip someplace as well anyway, so it didn't make much difference, but yeah, yeah, they, you know, you, don't, it's impossible through our renovation of this magnitude without. Without closing shops or moving someplace else. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA
For sure. So, let's talk about marketing. Is your practice, is it in a competitive, is Toronto as competitive as New York, Miami, Chicago?
Dr. Andres Gantous
Well, I mean, it's hard for me to say, right? I mean, it, it is, it is a competitive market, right? We have the same, the same competitiveness that Americans do in terms of. Facial plastic surgery, plastic surgery, dermatology, you know, now a little bit more, you know, oral maxillofacial surgeons and so on. Plus, all the, all the, you know, the family doctors and, you know, non-nonmedical personnel offering cosmetic services, you know, and, and injection injectables and fillers and so on.
But from a surgical point of view, it, it is a competitive market. There's no question about it. People shop. Shop around. They, they, they go, they see multiple surgeons and so on. The, so, so we are, we are we are in that, in that type of a market as well. It's, you know, it's the biggest city in Canada and, and the, and the most populous city in Canada.
So, so we, we would be you know, probably more the size of a Chicago. Right. But probably more, I think, I think we can compare more to Chicago than anybody else. Any others. What weather-wise and population wise and so on. What is the crime?
Catherine Maley, MBA
Oh, that's easy compared to Chicago. I'm actually from Chicago and I'm glad I'm from
Dr. Andres Gantous
there.
I love Chicago.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Then the news makes it look like it all burned down, but it used to be a lot of fun there. Yeah. I liked it a lot.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA
So, when I was, when I was researching you to do this podcast, It looks like you like to differentiate yourself with revision, rhinos, and most doctors run for the Hills with the, with primary rhinos, let alone revision what that is a tough group. So how, why would you do that and how that.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Oh, that goes very well. I mean, the reason I've done it, the reason I did that is one I one, I mean, obviously I'm confident in my abilities. Right. But I understand the reason why doctors don't want to do it. Because, because of my academic background and the fact that I've done a lot of reconstructive nasal work and I still do, that's one of the few things I still do.
You know, very, very, very tough cases, paces with granulomatosis with cocaine gnosis accidents cancer, stuff like that. You know, I feel comfortable doing that, that type of difficult case. And then it happens that at the end of the day, If there's not enough people that are doing revisions in, in your community, somebody has to do them.
So, it is something that, you know, comes my way. A lot of my colleagues that are well-established just don't do them. They, some, some don't even revise their own noses. So, you know, it just, somebody has to do it in my opinion, and you know, this challenging it, it can be very gratifying. It can also be, you know, you pull your hairs and you wish you never had touched that patient.
That's a problem. Right. But you have to have a little bit of a thick skin and you'd have to know how to manage people. And you know, that's, that's one of the issues. That's one of the reasons I was slightly late today is I had a, a patient for a revision nose that wouldn't leave the office. We tried everything.
Catherine Maley, MBA
How many revisions will you do on one day?
I mean volume and say three or four already. And now I need Dr. Gunn to still take care of it. Where's your
Dr. Andres Gantous
country. I think, I think, I think what it comes down to really is, is what. Not so much the number, although the number is important, right. Because of the tissues. But I don't focus so much on the number of revisions they've had before us as to what the tissues look like and what the patient feels they want.
And whether I think I can help them right. With the necessary tools. So, you know, there are, gnosis where you just know you can't do anything for them, or they may have had only one operation or. Or to operations and what they want is not achievable. Right? So those are the ones that I will just stay away.
Whereas I've had patients that have had seven or eight procedures on their nose. Right. But you know, what they want is reasonable. Right. And there is a chance that we can achieve it. Right. And to be honest, I haven't regretted operating on those patients. I, you know, they, they don't, they may not turn out excellent or, you know, even very nice looking, but.
Just changing a few of the things that bother them, makes them feel like, you know, they have a new lease on life and, you know, they, maybe it's just breathing a little bit better and maybe it's just correcting one feature that was bothering them tremendously. And that's, that's, that's the thing. Now, when you have somebody that you've read that I have revised and.
Then they want a little touch up for something that I don't think I can get. I'm not going to do it. Right. I will just tell them that's enough. That's all I can do. So, so it, it is a problem for us, right? The number of operations that they had. But like yesterday I operated on a patient that I revise. I revised a few years ago and she had had already four operations and I revised my revision yesterday.
Right because she mostly, because what happened was that she had a mild infection and one of my graphs didn't survive as well as I want. And she had the effects of that. Nothing bad, but she shortened a little bit more and rotated a little bit more than that. Then she, and I want it. So, I just revised him and she did very well, but she was very reasonable as to what she wanted.
So, her tissues were in pretty good condition regardless. So, you know, I knew that we could, we could help her. So, I know I can do something that is going to help them. And, and we're on the same, on the same page, right. As to what the resources are going to be, I will, I will consider doing.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, your reviews are great.
So, you don't, you seem to be having an issue with that, but those patients can be tough when it comes to online reputation. They're the first ones to get on there and, you know, set up websites, you know, telling how awful you are. So, and you haven't had that. Congratulations. You're doing a good job.
I
Dr. Andres Gantous
haven't had, I haven't had a website against me, but I have had a lot of bad reviews.
Yeah. So not too many, but you know, you, you always have a patient that, and to be honest I, I've never had a bad review from a medic patient. I've only, you know, the people, some of the, the, the few bad reviews that I've had have been from. Cancer patients or reconstructive surgery. Patients are usually very grateful patients, but now, and then you get one that just doesn't get it.
Right. And but that's the, you know, it's, I've been a little bit lucky in terms of that compared to some of my colleagues in town.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Yeah, well, maybe you're selecting the right patients too.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Let me ask you about the non-surgical rhino that has taken over on social media for sure. And the younger people.
How is that fitting into your practice?
Dr. Andres Gantous
It doesn't really fit into my practice very much. I mean, I, I do very few primary. It's like non-surgical rhinoplasty side. I have a few Oriental patients. Find that they're reasonable and they're you know, they, they, they seem to be, seem to understand the risks and, and what they want is reasonable.
So, I I've done it, a few girls with big coms that are waiting to have surgery and, and I know their families or, you know, their families are patients of mine, so I've done it, but it's not something that I advertise. The reason is that you see too many problems. There are, there are complications.
There are. Issues with that. And doesn't mean that I don't use fillers in the notes. I do use failures, particularly on revision. Gnosis right. Sometimes there's mild imperfections that we can fix perfectly with that. And that can be my revision gnosis and my patients. And I will offer them little fillers to, to help camouflage some stuff.
And I think in that, in those circumstances, that very good choice as a primary thing, you know, some people do great job with it. They make the no slip. I I'd rather do surgery.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Gotcha. Okay. And what about the aging face? Rejuvenation. Are you I'm on your website? You're showing it, but it feels like you're still very much into the rhinoplasty world.
Do you do
Dr. Andres Gantous
both? I do. I do a lot of rejuvenation surgery. It's I like it. I like rhinoplasty the best. It's the most challenging operation. A real thinking man's operation. It never gets boring. They're all different rejuvenation surgery is sprayed at pace with pace. Well, it's patients are usually very happy.
They don't give you any grief, like rhinoplasty patients, right? So, it's, it's, it's great. I find it a little bit boring at times, right? Is there some, they can be tedious longer operations, right. And there's not a whole lot of creativity into it. But I do it. I mean, I, you know, I do we, we have obviously an aging population in Toronto, you know, the patient population that I, that I inherited into this practice is patients that have I've, I've done, I've done a lot of revision facelifts on patients.
Were done by the surgeon that I brought the practice from 25 years ago. Right. And they've come for their second or third, a facelift. So that's great. I don't mind doing that. And we do quite a bit. We do a lot of ice and things like that. So, browse and next and you know, submentoplasty so, so it's quite a lot of that.
I am, I am well-known for the rhinoplasty and that's why it's a big focus in, in. In, in my practice and this also something that distinguished me a little bit from a lot of my competitors.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, and that's the secret to marketing you externally market to be the specialist in something. And then you internally hang on to them for all sorts of other things, but getting well known for one procedure is the way to go in.
What about on your website, you've got the 3d imaging and I love, love, love your the way you have it set up. So, you have 3d imaging, you're encouraging the patient to upload their photos and then reserve a consult or a virtual consult with you. And do you, and you also charge 1 75 for that consult.
Is that, do you charge 1 75 for the virtual, the. Yeah,
Dr. Andres Gantous
it's the same price. It's same, same, same. I mean, you know, I, I prefer to do a live, in-person consultation. Right. And you know, We, we got better during, during COVID at doing virtual consultations. Right. And we all, we all had to learn. So, we, you know, people, people still ask about it, even though things are tying back to normal, people still ask about it.
But I do get patients from all around Canada. So that's why, you know, we do a lot more virtual stuff. With the with the 3d, you know, this part into, into the system that I have, they have the 3d virtual consultation on stone. So, you can do it. It works pretty well. It's fairly seamless. So, so we do offer it or, or we just do it in the office when people are here with them, we'll just do it.
The 3d or 2d in some cases, imaging, depending on what time constraints and what people want. Right. So, all technology has had limit, right? So 3d imaging is great when it works well, but it doesn't always work. Great. So sometimes we'll elect to do a 2d imaging and on my iPad on I'm pretty quick about doing that and works.
Sometimes it looks better than the 3d images as far as I'm concerned, but whatever the patient wants, right. That I'm fairly flexible.
Catherine Maley, MBA
But from a marketing perspective in today's world, when you're throwing yourself out into the universe. And trying to get sales leads from that, you know, it's just such a bag of tricks.
Like you're just, I, you, who knows what you're going to end up with. So, I love that you have put up gates. So, it's very on your website. It's very obvious that you love art. You don't use models, and I love that as well, use artwork instead. And then you let that a prospective patient upload their photos, schedule the consult.
They're going to pay the 1 75 that already you have set yourself up for. So much more success than had you just said, oh click here for a free consult. And now you've got everybody in their brother, so you can have 100 leads coming in. And maybe if you're lucky, one of them converted. Whereas in your case, I guarantee you're converting a lot of those or way more than you.
Having not put up those fences.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Sure. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's, that's very true. We do, we do have a fairly high conversion rate, which is nice. And yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm happy with that website and I mean, I'd find it to be a, a good reflection of who I am and how I do things and you know, so, so that's it works well and you know, every, every little thing like that, as you say, it helps, it helps create a.
Create a persona, create an online persona, create an image of, of what you're offering. And so on. At least you hope it does right.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, it's different. What else do you do to market yourself or, or do you not have to anymore? You're not resting on your laurels. I hope because world is changing very quickly.
I noticed you're not big on social media. What are you doing to keep this?
Dr. Andres Gantous
I don't do, I don't do a whole lot of social media. I mean, I do, I have my Instagram account. I have a personal one. I have applied practice. I'm not a big poster. Right. I, you know, I, I will post things when I think are important and Swan.
Part of it is just being busy and not having somebody doing it for me. And you're always gonna modeling. Should have you have somebody else do it. Right. Most of the marketing comes through the website and, you know, my, you know webmaster and they, they, they, they tend to do a little bit of stuff on, on Facebook and, and different media.
You know, we have a newsletter it's up come out. Right? Those, those attract a lot of patients, right. And they, we promote different treatments every month and introduce staff and, and new procedures or whatever we may be doing. So that, that seems to work quite nicely. And it's just a fairly non-intrusive.
We don't do too much. We don't send, you know, once a month that say it right. We let people. Sign in or sign out of that. And we respect that. So, so we're, we're very, non-intrusive we try to keep things as, as classy as possible without, you know, over-broad and people with information and unwanted emails or ads or things like that.
So that's mostly, mostly what I mostly what I do. Right. I don't talk, I don't, I don't put too much money into it. Right.
Catherine Maley, MBA
But there's such a challenge there because others are putting the money into it. PR marketing themselves with, with no shame, you know? So, you always have to think about
Dr. Andres Gantous
that. Absolutely.
I'm always thinking about it. I think, you know, at this stage of my career and so on and you know, I, you know, I have a reputation. I, I, you know, I have you know, not just Joseph with patients, but also with colleagues across disciplines and that helps. Right. And also sort of being still involved with the university and being head of the division of facial plastic surgery that carries, you know, a lot of pinash in some people's minds and inpatients and other doctors and so on.
So, I do get a lot of requests because of that. So, I'm, I'm lucky in that way. I mean, things have, have progressed to in a, in a good way. And sometimes I look at, I look at some of my colleagues who spend a fortune in advertising. Maybe they have a few more patients that's for sure. Maybe they have. But I don't know, at the end of the day, I look at what you're taking home.
Right. And, and how you live your life. Right. And if you have 20 staff versus three or four staff and if you're spending X amount of dollars a month versus a smaller X amount of dollars a month, It's going to affect your, you know, the bottom line. Right. So, advertising more and having more patients doesn't mean that you are actually more successful.
Right. And so, I I'm, I'm very happy with how things are. I, I can only do so much as well. Right. I can only do so much operating. I can only see so many patients, right. I'm happy where things are, right. We not, not Tom, you know? Sure. You always want to be a little bit busier. Maybe you want to have a, you know, a little bit more than, than this, but I sometimes just, when I, when I find myself thinking too much about that, I sit myself back and I just kind of think of what I, what I have, what I do and what I really want to do something very different than that kind of calms me down a little bit.
Catherine Maley, MBA
I think you just have to know yourself. Some I've watched surgeons building the castle, you know, and they've got the 30 plus staff and the overhead is killing them. Or. Or they're really good at it. And they have built, you know, a really smooth operation, not many have though you have to know yourself because I'm so certain surgeons have said to me, I was so much happier when I just had my wife, my nurse and my receptionist, you know, so, I mean, they wanted their life back, so there's no one way to do this.
And that's the good part. You can set it up any way you want.
Dr. Andres Gantous
I'm a surgeon. I'm not a businessman. So, you know, if I. I have, I have to dress my instance to do things that I think will work for me. And that's it. It's fun.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Well, and it's working for you. So, if you're happy, that's the most important thing. Is there anything in particular you study or like, I love talking about mindset.
Like what keeps you motivated or keeps you adaptable to change? You know, is there anything you read or watch or learn from.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah. I mean, as you know, Katherine, I mean, I travel a lot for conferences, right. I I'm, you know, invited to speak at many conferences and courses you know, around the world. I have very good friends and colleagues from all over the world and, you know, because I speak several languages, I get invited to different places as well.
It, it comes, it comes with the territory and your background, right. So that, that is always, to me, one of the things that keeps me up to date with things, right. But listening to my colleagues, right. Chatting with them over a glass of wine or a beer or, or more, or more often a cigar on a scotch and you know, chatting and learning what they're doing, how they're doing things a little bit different you know, going to visit colleagues at times.
I mean, I'm. You know, I'm not ..., you know, even though I've been around a long time, I have a big practice. I still like to. See with some of my colleagues operate or do things a little bit different. I get on the phone. If I, you know, I see somebody doing something, I don't know how to do very well.
They'll send me a video right. Of how they do a procedure. Right. So, I want to learn how to do stuff like that. And then we're always, you know, even the, even rhinoplasty, which, you know, I consider myself an expert. I'm still changing. I'm still learning new things. I'm still trying new things because, you know, there's, there's, it's an, it's a, it's a, it's a lifelong study.
Right. So, I do that, you know, obviously I read, I read the journals I, you know, belong to, to some WhatsApp groups and Facebook groups in inter specialty and within the own specialty and of aesthetic practice that some of my colleagues have been fantastic about putting together and you know, kudos to them.
Right. They kept us all involved and created a group of people. Like-minded people to present things, to discuss things, to ask advice. And that, that has been very, very great on that'll happen during COVID right, where we all had a little bit of more time when we're shut down. And so that, that, that, that keeps my interest professionally.
Right. I have many, many interests outside of medicine, right. That keeps me keep me happy. And, and you know, they, they, they you, those are, those are just as important as just your medical and scientific endeavors.
Catherine Maley, MBA
For sure. I know you are like you paint, draw you're into martial arts. You and your fluent did Spanish, Italian and French.
Yeah. What do you do in your free time? That's awesome.
Dr. Andres Gantous
That's some of the stuff that I do, you know, the martial arts boxing, all that stuff has been, has been pretty much going to hold for the last year. They're just this week, they were reopening my boxing gym. So., I haven't really done it in over 12 months or more.
And you know, so I like, I like to exercise. I mean, I like to start trying to stay in shape. I do like, you know, art painting and drawing and, and I you know, we had a chat briefly about this before we started and I wish I had a little bit more time and I'm going to; I'm forcing myself to do it.
I read a lot, I read a lot and on nonmedical stuff, I am always been a big reader. And so that, that always something that happens and I like spending time with friends, so I like I like you know, socializing like, you know, having. My kids w when, when they're around, come over and, and I like to cook.
That's why I do like to entertain at home. So, and I like to go out and eat and restaurants and all that stuff. So, like, you know, nothing, nothing, you know, out of this world, but those are things that keep me going, you know, I'd like to travel. I like to travel for work and like to travel for leisure. Those are the things that are important to me.
What's one
Catherine Maley, MBA
of your favorite meals to cook?
Dr. Andres Gantous
Well, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a hard one. Say it, right? I mean, there's lots of stuff that I do. And I think it probably, it probably changes it probably changes you know, with time, but based on, based on my background there's, there's several things that I like to cook.
My, my, one of my grandmothers was Italian and a fabulous book. Right. And I learned how to make gnocchi from her. So, I liked, I like to make pasta and I'll make my own pasta and I'll make stuff. Boston I'll make gnocchi, which is really, truly not a pasta, but a dumpling. But, but I, you know, you know, I still remember her with both hands rolling silkies and like a speed that, that I can't, even as a surgeon, I can manage to do stuff the way she did.
And then on my back side of the Lebanese side, I, you know, there's lots of stuff in, in the, in that middle Eastern type of food that I like to do. And You know, I mean, I go, I go, you know, one of the things that I've been cooking, you know, that that I've been trying to perfect a little bit is I make a pretty good seafood bite.
Yeah.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Oh, wow. All right. I'm available for dinner.
Dr. Andres Gantous
Don't
Catherine Maley, MBA
worry. I have never learned how to cook myself, but I sure like it, you know, I like to eat it. I just don't. So just to wrap this up, do you have any words of wisdom, especially for the younger guy coming up or the one who's dying to transition? Who's dying to jump any words of wisdom for them?
Dr. Andres Gantous
Yeah, I mean, for, for the latter, for the one who's dying to jump in transition. I mean, my advice, they said, it's something that you really want to do, just do it. It'll work out. Right. It'll work out, just do it, you know, just make sure that, you know, your finances or financial arrangements are, you know, doable, even if things don't work out that it's not going to put you in the poor house.
Right. You know, I don't think one has to go big. I don't think you have to build, you know, a $20 million surgery center. Right. You just need to. Take the plunge and, and, and, and change how you do things. So just my advice on that is just do it, be smart about it, you know, do your homework, and then you bite the bullet and you do it.
I think, I don't think anybody's going to regret it right once for that, for the younger surgeon, for the, you know, the, the fellow transition. I, you know, my advice and I tell this to my residents and I tell this to my fellow stripes. You know, find, find what you like to do. Find something that makes you happy and do it and try to become good at it.
Right? Keep an open mind. Don't get, don't get stuck in, in how you learn something. And in residency, that's the only way you're going to do it. Always learn how to do new things, right. Always to learn how to do a new procedure, even though nobody taught you how to do it. And I think, I think if you, if you have that frame of mind, you're going to succeed in a surgical career.
You know, if you, if you're doing something you love to do, you're going to be happy doing it. Rather whether you make a lot of money or not that much money in, in our field, nobody's going to go hungry. Right. And you know, if you, if you, if you do things for the right reasons and you make patients happy and you take care of people, Because that's where in the business, we're in the business of taking care of people.
So always remember that you're, you're taking care of people, you know, whether you're doing a cosmetic rhinoplasty or you're taking the thyroid out or you're, you know, putting tubes in a year and a kid, right. You're taking care of people. You're trying to make people better. Right. So, I think that's the important thing is, remember, remember where, what, what brought you to do what you're doing?
Right. I doubt very much that there was money for it. You know any of us, right? I, it comes afterwards, right. It comes with success and you know, there's time to do it so long career.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Wow. And with that, we are going to conclude. Now, if you did want to learn more about Dr. Gantous, you can check out his website.
It's www.TorontoFacialPlastic.com. Is that correct?
Dr. Andres Gantous
That's correct. www.TorontoFacialPlastic.com.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you being on Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Gantous.
Dr. Andres Gantous
It's been absolutely. My pleasure, Catherine.
Catherine Maley, MBA
Thank you. Okay, everyone. That's a wrap for us, so please. If you feel so inclined, head over to subscribe to Beauty and the Biz at iTunes and leave me a review if you want.
You can also give me some feedback or questions. Anything you have, you can leave me a message on my website at, www.CatherineMaley.com or you can DM me on Instagram @catherinemaleymba. Thanks so much. And we'll talk again soon.
βπDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSοΏ½οΏ½
βRobert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
ββοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beauty-and-the-biz/id1464743194
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
βπ² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
βπ€ LET'S CONNECT! π€ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinema... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMal... Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine...
ββ https://CatherineMaley.comββ
β--- #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Beauty and the Biz:
The Top 5 Money Makers In Your Practice
There are 5 essential money-making operations that occur in ANY successful plastic surgery practice.
If you miss any of these 5 key elements, you're leaving a lot of money on the table - often several HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars.
However, the reality is that most practices focus on ONE area only (instead of all five) and that is hurting them, and they don t realize it.
If YOU focus your time and energy on these five areas, you will make more money than ANY of your competitors and with less effort.
Here are the 5 key areas to focus on to win:
- Lead Generation (making the phone ring)
- Converting caners into appointments
- Converting appointments into paid procedures
- Encouraging these patients to come back so they experience (and pay for) more of your procedures and treatments
- Building an army of raving fans who refer you to their friends.
Think about it. Don't a majority of your surgeries come from word-of-mouth referrals and from existing patients coming back for more?
So, the biggest problem holding you back is your narrow focus on "getting more leadsβ’.
You might be throwing a ton of money at SEO, Google, AdWords and directories OR you're spending a ton of Β·me creating content for your Instagram and Facebook followers.
Yes, it's exciting to get lots of leads and comments but here's the kicker ... Leads are only one part of it.
These leads need to be converted because if you can't monetize these leads then you're throwing money down the drain.
However, if you KNOW how to monetize the leads through the other 4 key elements I mentioned above, then you can run circles around your competitors.
For example, if your competitorβs philosophy is to throw money at advertising and get as many leads as possible but thereβs no focus on converting and following up on these expensive leads,
He may make only S1000 on a $1K investment so he breaks even.
However, if you focus on the entire lead process, you can make $4500 on a $1K investment.
The ROI for him is 100%, while yours is 450%
Click here for all the strategies for Plastic Surgery Marketing: Whatβs Working Now.
FREE! The choices your patients makeβ¦Explained
FREE! Advice Call
πDONβT MISS THESE INTERVIEWSπ
Robert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
π€ LETβS CONNECT! π€
β
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Beauty and the Biz with special guests, Michael T. Somenek MD and Troy A. Pittman MD FACS of S+P Advanced Plastic Surgery in Washington, D.C., where they've founded a premier and fully-accredited surgical suite and med spa.
Visit S+P Advanced Plastic Surgery at
https://somenekpittmanmd.com/
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
My guests today are the founders of Somenek & Pittman Advanced Plastic Surgery, offering βconcierge careβ in Washington, D.C.
Michael Somenek, MD is a double-board certified facial plastic surgeon specializing in rhinoplasty and facelifts, while Troy Pittman is a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon focusing on the breast and body.
So, itβs 2 specialists under one roof. They recently opened a fully-accredited, all-private surgical suite which happens to be steps away from the Fairmont hotel for those patients who choose to recover in luxury.
And, not only are they partners in business but also in life so weβll learn more about that.
Drs. Somenek and Pittman, welcome to "Beauty and the Biz". Itβs a pleasure to speak with you.
Topics of discussion:
β How did you end up in practice together?
β OR suite build out. Why? How long? Pros and Cons? Mistakes made?
β Who Manages? Administration, marketing, accounting.
β Staff - hiring, managing, motivating β Mistakes?
β Biggest frustration of running the practice?
β Marketing.
β Market as practice or separately?
β Target Marketing.
β Marketing channels β Whatβs working best?
β Social media tips?
β Mindset.
β Pros and Cons of working and living together?
β Whatβs driving you?
β Mentors, books, courses to recommend?
β Words of wisdom?
βοΈWant to learn more about S+P Advanced Plastic Surgery? Visit their website at https://somenekpittmanmd.com/
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSπ
Robert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-86ββ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-44ββ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-88β
βοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcastββ..
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
Beauty and the Biz: Cross Promote Cosmetic Services
Keep your patients on βthe yes trackβ with value-added products, services, treatments and procedures.
Great ideas on suggestively selling patients during their visit without being pushy, and how to get your patients to come back for more later on. It's a win-win for both your patient and your practice.
Click here for all the strategies for Plastic Surgery Marketing: Whatβs Working Now.
FREE! The choices your patients makeβ¦Explained
FREE! Advice Call
πDONβT MISS THESE INTERVIEWSπ
Robert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine
π€ LETβS CONNECT! π€
β
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
Todayβs episode is an interview with someone I have known for many years and have the utmost respect for.
He's Randy Waldman, MD; a double-board-certified facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon in Lexington, KY who has been in practice for over 30 years.
His articles are published in scientific journals and he has been the editor for two medical books on facial plastic surgery.
He has also given over 500 presentations at cosmetic surgery meetings for the past 25 years in the United states and Europe
Dr. Waldman has grown his private practice to 4 surgeons + Quad A certified surgical center + medical skincare center + many staff
And he has been voted as Central Kentuckyβs Best Cosmetic Surgery Practice for 7 years!
However, his even bigger claim to fame is his unique ability to organize and coordinate over 45 major medical conferences.
Currently, he is the founder and director of the Global Aesthetics Conference in Miami Beach, Florida which is held in November at the Loews Hotel.
Welcome to the podcast Dr. Waldman.
Topics of discussion:
β Thoughts on this great surge of patients after COVID? Will it last?
β How to prepare for the ups and downs of this industry?
β Pearls for how to run a multi-surgeon practice?
β Whatβs the biggest frustration in running such a big practice?
β Marketing: Do you market differently now than before COVID?
β What's working best to grow your patient list and revenues?
β How are non-surgical treatments affecting your surgical procedure revenues?
β Since you run the Global Aesthetics Conference in Miami, being held in November, tell us what attendees can expect?
Learn more about the Global Aesthetics Conference coming in November:
https://globalaestheticsconference.com
βοΈLearn more about Dr. Waldman by visiting his website at
https://www.waldmanplasticsurgery.com/our-practice/dr-waldman
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSπ
Robert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-86ββ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-44ββ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-88β
βοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcastββ..
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinema...
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMal...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine...
β https://CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Beauty and the Biz
How and why you need to create meaningful social media content that connects with current and prospective patients. Reap a larger market share than the competition while instilling confidence in your marketing demographic. It's easier than you think to become a social media sensation and increase conversion rates and revenue!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Creating Content to Attract New Patients
Welcomeβ¦
In this episode, weβre talking about creating content to Attract New Patients because in a world of relentless information coming at the consumer, they can only hear what they are interested in at that moment.
They seek out that information and come to you, instead of your competitors, when you have the answers theyβre looking for to help them make a decision.
Thatβs where content creation comes in. Itβs NOT about your brand or services. Itβs about your audience and what THEY care about.
BTW, I built my own business of more than 20 years on content marketing. It just made sense to me to educate my audience on the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, so when you needed guidance to grow your own practice, you turn to me.
So, how can you create content that is interesting to your audience?
Hereβs my biggest pearl to keep the content flowingβ¦.
Hire someone who is adept at video editing and social media and have them capture you in the βDay in the Life of a Plastic surgeon.β
Think about it, you are a walking/talking content machine with unlimited PATIENT content:
You meet with prospective patients who each have their own story.
You explain each procedure in laymanβs terms.
You answer their questions about anesthesia, downtime and pain.
You show them expected results using technology, drawings or photos.
You meet with them before surgery to reassure them.
You meet with them after surgery to reassure them again.
You see them for their post-op visits to remove bandages and unveil their results and so on.
The point is you donβt have to wrack your brain trying to come up with content β you and your patients are the content.
And, You also have unlimited practice content: for exampleβ¦.
FAQs for each procedure
Introduce new treatments and procedures
Interesting things happening in your practice (new hires, renovating, etc.)
Staff stories, birthdays, anniversaries
Personal stories: your family, hobbies, etc.
And hereβs another huge pearl to content creationβ¦.
The secret to content marketing is to create great content that can be repurposed for many platforms, since prospective cosmetic patients are scattered all over the Internet. They use a variety of platforms to get their information so how do you be everywhere?
First, determine which platforms will give you the best audience reach. Then develop a systematic plan to regularly upload content to those platforms.
For example, have your staff take photos and videotape you conducting a live patient consultation since you are most comfortable in this scenario.
Of course, get permission from the prospective patient. And, be yourself and do and say what you normally do and say. The point is for other would-be patients to see you in action being the expert and explaining surgical procedures.
Now you repurpose that video into for a variety of platforms. For example:
- Video is uploaded to YouTube, Vimeo, IGTV, Facebook Watch
- Then, Transcribe the video for articles, blog posts, press releases AND RealSelf Q&A
- Photos are uploaded to Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, Snapchat
- And Record it to start a podcast and upload to top podcast platforms
Do you see how just one effort on your part, becomes at least 13 pieces of content spread out throughout the Internet?
But be forewarned. This is not a one-time event.
This is ongoing, consistent, interesting content that is regularly posted.
Yes, it takes time and effort but if you want a steady stream of new cosmetic patients, content marketing is a proven way to get them.
Ok, that wraps up this episode of Beauty and the biz
And please subscribe if you havenβt already and of course I would love a good review.
Also, if you need help with your own marketing plan or have feedback, please leave me a message at my website https://www.CatherineMaley.com or DM me on Instagram @catherinemaleymba. Take care.
Texting for the Plastic Surgery Practice
Text Marketing for Plastic Surgeons
Texting has been around for a while and is on the rise as an effective plastic surgery marketing strategy thatβs working.
Once users have opted into your list (required), you can send them special promotions, updates, appointments reminders, surveys, and much more.
Need proof that SMS is one of the best digital marketing strategies?
Consider that the average open rate for text message marketing campaigns is 98% β compared to a 20% open rate for email marketing.
Also, SMS response rates are 295% higher than phone call response rates. (source)
Why Text Your Cosmetic Patients
The reality is you have to be where your cosmetic patients are to engage with them and that is on their cell phones.
Texting is the highest engagement rate of any marketing medium by far at 82% open rates and 90% of message are read within three minutes of receipt.
This is exciting because you can reach out to your patients with a push of a button. The response is almost immediate and can be a nice boost to filling up your schedule and bumping up your revenues.
BUT you must put a plan in place, so you donβt end up in hot water since there are rules about texting your patients so use these tips to get started:
Tips to ensure texting success:
Get Permission
If you donβt already, start collecting consents from your patients so you have approval to text them.
On your patient in-take forms, ask them. But do it in a compelling way. For example, βCheck here if you would like to receive periodic VIP Text Club offersβ.
Invite Patients to Opt-in Across All Media
Start a βVIP Text Clubβ and make a big deal out of it. Mention it everywhereβ¦ on your website, in your social media posts, banner ads, newsletter and checkout signage. Add a compelling reason for them to join now such as an automatic gift card towards their next visit or a free skin care product of their choice.
You get your patientsβ permission by asking them to send a keyword to your short code cell phone number such as βText βGIFTβ to 12345β.
Know thy Patients
While you are building up your consent list, hereβs a way to get started now. Using your CRM (Customer Relationship Management) platform, segment a list of patients you have a great relationship with who would love to hear from you via text.
Be sure they can respond STOP to immediately be removed from the texting list, if they are not interested.
Use a Texting Platform
A texting platform automates all of this and keeps you out of trouble since it will automatically delete someone from your list who opts-out because they donβt want to get text messages.
It will also give you reports to track your results so you know how many were sent, opened, opted-out and so on.
Compelling Text Messages
This is not a time to be coy. Be direct and clear. Text a short message that is compelling. I suggest it be of urgency and include a special offer with a tight expiration. For example:
Or, skip the images and just text a simple message like this:
Include Call-to-Action Buttons
These buttons increase patient engagement with your texts because you need them to value the message, read it and act on it.
-
βClick Hereβ β oftentimes, you need more time and space to explain a particular cosmetic procedure such as its benefits, the process and before/after photos. In that case, a βClick Hereβ will send them to your website landing page for the details.
-
βText-to-Winβ β if you have a contest
-
βShow this textβ β Ask your patients to show the text to your check out staff to earn a promotional discount.
Timing is Everything
This is a βjust-in-timeβ marketing strategy. It takes, on average, 3 minutes to open messages so you want to be ready.
Think of this as impulsive shopping. They see it and react.
That means you only send it during practice hours and use a practice cell phone that is monitored all day, so you respond immediately and interact with your interested patients.
Know the Rules
The Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association (CTIA) requires SMS marketers to include βmsg & data rates applyβ in auto-reply messages. Most text marketing services will add this disclaimer automatically, but itβs on you to ensure its included.
A great texting strategy is one more way to stay in touch with your loyal patients who love hearing from you using this channel. Use it mindfully.
Click here for all the strategies for Plastic Surgery Marketing: Whatβs Working Now.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Interview with William P. Adams, MD - President, The Aesthetic Society
Welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host, Catherine Maley, author of βYour Aesthetic Practice - What Your Patients are Sayingβ, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
LEARN MORE β‘οΈ http://bit.ly/Catherine-Maley-Aboutβ
β¬οΈ Today's Guest: William P. Adams, MD β¬οΈ
Iβm thrilled to introduce our guest.
Itβs William Adams, MD, a board-certified plastic surgeon in private practice in Dallas, AND The new President of The Aesthetic Society, formerly known as The American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery.
Dr. Adams also holds the following honors and achievements:
β’ Ranked #1 breast augmentation surgeon in the US by Newsweek.
β’ University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Associate Clinical Professor
β’ University of Texas Southwestern Aesthetic Surgery Fellowship Program Director
β’ Pioneer of the 24-Hour Breast Augmentation
β’ Published Author
Welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Adams. Itβs a pleasure to speak with you.
Topics of discussion:
β Why the name change?
β When did your term as the president actually start?
β What are your goals as the new President?
β βAesthetic Oneβ and βA.N.Nβ.
β There's been a huge surge in plastic surgeries since COVID. Do you see that continuing?
β What are the biggest challenges facing plastic surgery today?
β How is the surge of non-surgical procedures affecting surgical practices?
β What's trending now in terms of procedures, patient desires and demographics?
β How do you differentiate yourself as a board-certified plastic surgeon vs. a cosmetic surgeon?
β Given the intense competition, marketing is a must. What are marketing no-noβs for your membership?
β βThe Plastic Surgery Channelβ.
β Is social media good or bad for the plastic surgery industry?
β How much of the patient market opts for destination plastic surgery and how do you keep your market share?
β Do you still have time to practice while being the President?
βοΈWant to learn more about Dr. Adams? Visit his website at https://www.dr-adams.com/
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSπ
Robert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-86ββ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres. β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-44ββ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-88β
βοΈ STAY UPDATED! βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcastββ..
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π€ LET'S CONNECT! π€
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catherinema...
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CatherineMal...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/catherinemaley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine...
β https://CatherineMaley.comββ
#williamadamsmd #theaestheticsociety #beautyandthebiz #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #gothamplasticsurgery #dallasplasticsurgery #dallascosmeticsurgery #texasplasticsurgery #texascosmeticsurgery #txplasticsurgery #txcosmeticsurgery #podcast #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients are Saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
My guest today is Dr. Philip Miller, a double-board-certified facial plastic surgeon specializing in rhinoplasty and facelift in private practice on the upper east side of Manhattan for more than 2 decades and partner in Gotham Plastic Surgery.
Dr. Miller is a clinical Associate Professor in the Department of Otolaryngology at New York University School of Medicine, where he teaches facial plastic surgery to residents and students.
Dr. Miller has authored numerous manuscript chapters and peer reviewed journal articles for rhinoplasty and neck rejuvenation.
He is regularly invited to lecture on specific techniques with his peers at national facial plastic surgery meetings and has been voted Best Doctors in America and Top Doctor of NY since 2007.
In 2019, he won the Castle Connelly top doctors Award. And has gotten much PR on the Discovery Channel, NBC, several top magazines, as well as The Wall Street Journal and The NY Times.
Listen to the episode to learn:
- How he developed his practice structure for Gotham Plastic Surgery
- How he differentiates himself while successfully reaching his target markets
- How technology is an important aspect in his business model
- What drives him to be successful
Want to learn more about Dr. Philip Miller? Visit his website www.DrPhilipMiller.com
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz with guest, Kristi Hustak, MD.
Dr. Hustak is amongst the 7 plastic surgeons at the prestigious Aesthetic Center for Plastic Surgery in Houston, TX, where she's also the Assistant Program Director.
They have a state-of-the-art private surgical center as well as med spas in 2 locations.
Visit https://KristiHustakMD.com
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Welcome to Beauty and the Biz - Where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.
Iβm your host Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying" and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.
β¬οΈ Interview with Kristi Hustak, MD β¬οΈ
Interview with Kristi Hustak, MD
Board Certified Plastic Surgeon
Assistant Program Director, Aesthetic Center for Plastic Surgery Aesthetic Fellowship
β‘οΈ www.KristiHustakMD.com
Dr. Kristi Hustak is the only female plastic surgeon of the 7 plastic surgeons who make up the prestigious Aesthetic Center for Plastic Surgery in Houston, TX. They have a state-of-the-art private surgical center as well as med spas in 2 locations.
But whatβs super interesting is that Dr. Hustak was born on an Apache Reservation in Whiteriver, AZ. β
She started her training in Ohio, completed a medical mission in Peru, graduated Magna Cum Laude from the Ohio state University College of Medicine, married her best friend and classmate, and settled in Texas; where they are raising their 3 children.
βDr. Hustak, itβs a pleasure to have you on Beauty and the Biz. Welcome!
βFirst, I have to ask about your experience on a reservation.
β
Q&A with Dr. Hustak:
BUSINESS:
- Associate or partner?
- Democracy or dictator?
- Managing Surgeon?
- Meet often?
- Pros and Cons?
- Sales Leads?
- Staff issues?
β
MARKETING:
- Did you have to market?
- Referral Source?
- As a practice or separately?
https://kristihustakmd.com β her own website and blog since 2014
πDON'T MISS THESE INTERVIEWSπ
Robert Singer, MD FACS- Former Pres. of The Aesthetic Society β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-86ββ
Grant Stevens, MD FACS-Former ASAPS Pres.β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-44ββ
E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS- Former Pres. of AAFPRS, ABFPRS, AACS β‘οΈ https://bit.ly/Beauty-and-the-Biz-88β
βοΈSTAY UPDATED!βοΈ
Website: https://www.catherinemaley.comββ
Blog: https://www.catherinemaley.com/blogββ
Podcast: https://www.catherinemaley.com/podcastββ
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcastββ..
π Get a Copy of Catherineβs FREE Book: https://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBookββ
π² Schedule a FREE 30-Minute Strategy Call with Catherine: https://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherineββ
π€LET'S CONNECT!π€
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β https://CatherineMaley.comββ
#beautyandthebiz #podcast #podcastforsurgeons #plasticsurgeons #cosmeticsurgeons #marketing #plasticsurgery #stafftraining #businessconsulting #strategiesforsurgeons
Beauty and the Biz
Google is saying what we've been saying for years on the top ways to attract and retain more cosmetic patients.
Catherine shares the top 6 ways to do this. Solid advice that's helped dozens of practices reach their goals.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
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Transcript:
I meet with my team every week to go over our numbers to ensure we're on track. And of course, I highly recommend you do the same. And I wasn't very happy with the results. Apparently, our organic reach and advertising results on Facebook and Instagram , they just decreased significantly for no big reason. Now it has something to do with the iOS update, and the no more iPhone tracking, which could be half or more of your audience, depending on where you live. And Google AdWords will also start restricting their audiences. Now these big guys are making it way more difficult for you to reach new prospective patients.
Now, if plastic surgeons can't advertise to consumers, how the heck are you supposed to grow your practice? Right? So to find the answer for you, I did what I always do, I Googled it. And I Googled How do I get more cosmetic patients. Now, they listed six ways, and I happen to have an autopilot system that addresses four of them. So please check it out at www.KissLoyaltyClub.com.
So, here are the six ways in more detail. Number one, get more reviews. Since Google owns the planet, I recommend you focus on Google reviews. Now Google wants the reviews to provide useful, constructive feedback that's detailed, specific and honest. Now the secret to reviews is the timing. Ask for your reviews when the patient is ecstatic with their results and with you. And then help them help you provide them with starter sentences to complete since a good review tells a full story for example, I wanted to improve blank because blank, I chose Dr. Smith because blank. My experience with the doctor in the staff was blank. And then how I feel about my result now is blank.
Here's number two enhance your online presence. websites have evolved through the years, they look so different than they used to. So be sure yours has a fresh updated look. And it must be mobile friendly. Now include social media buttons, so patients get to know you better, and show off your skill with lots of before and after photos and videos of FAQs. For each procedure. Add fresh, updated content to as many different platforms as possible to increase your footprint on the internet.
And here's number three, don't miss out on the social media platforms. You may not understand social media or want to put your time there, but it's become an absolute must have patient attraction channel to attract new patients. Now I recommend you assign a staff person or hire someone specifically to follow you around with an iPhone or iPad and record you doing the life of a plastic surgeon. And when you partner with me, we happen to provide you with regular social media content about the kiss club that patients love to comment on and share with their friends.
Now here's number four, positive or negative respond to reviews, you are bound to get some bad reviews, setting expectations so the patient hears you is a tough job, but it is part of doing business. Your best approach is to respond quickly. Stay professional and apologize for the situation, not for the work you've done and offer to talk it over since your overall goal is patient satisfaction.
And here's number five, train your staff. I've spent years beating this drum, your staff will make or break your practice. So please get the right people on the bus. Get them in the right seats, give them the training they need to succeed and hold them accountable. Your receptionist must have the skills to present you as the best choice for the caller who has many options. answers the question, How much is it so the caller to move forward to booking the appointment, and they've got to be able to convert the caller to a booked appointment. Your coordinator must have the skills to understand the patient's true wants and needs, how to handle a patient who wants to negotiate, and then how to professionally convert a consultation to pay procedure.
Please visit my website, www.CatherineMaley.com for other details.
And the sixth way to get more patients per Google is number six, build strong relations with existing patients and referrals will follow. It changes everything when you have a patient's for life mindset. When you see your patients as friends and family and treat them with respect, they grow your practice for you. As Maya Angelou says they won't remember what you told them. They won't remember what you showed them but they will remember how you make them feel. Isn't that the truth.
So please make your patients feel important, wanted and appreciated. These happy patients will be your patients for decades and return for more. As the aging process continues. They'll refer their family members and friends who will then refer their family members and friends, and so on and so on. The KiSS Loyalty Club addresses four of the six ways Google suggests for you to get more patients. So please check it out at www.KissLoyaltyClub.com
Beauty and the Biz
Knowing you can count on revenues coming in consistently and reliably without the financial roller coaster and sleepless nights is the goal.
Better patient experiences help you gain more predictable revenues because your patients like you and how you make them feel.
Increase your profits and valuation by an average of 275%!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
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Beauty and the Biz Episode 100!
The Top 10 Takeaways from 27 plastic and cosmetic surgeon interviews that Catherine has conducted over the past 2 years of the Beauty and the Biz podcast.
These are the golden tips that you need to hear and implement in your own practice today!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
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FREE! Advice Call:
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Hello and welcome to my 100th special episode of the Beauty and the Biz Podcast.
I started this podcast 2 years ago because itβs no longer enough to be a great cosmetic surgeon.
Good marketers often beat out excellent surgeons - at least in the short run so this podcast is to keep you on track and remind you of whatβs important.
The industry has evolved with different rules and strategies so itβs time to up your own game.
Because if you really want to be successful, you have to Adapt to Change.
Itβs about staying nibble in your thinking because:
The marketplace has changed
Attitudes about cosmetic rejuvenation have changed
The marketing channels have changed
The patient preferences have changed and how they choose a service provider have changed.
So, you need to change with them, or youβll get left in the dust.
For this 100th special edition, I compiled the 10 Take-a-ways I learned from the many plastic surgeons I interviewed. BTW, I named them in the show notes.
These surgeons have been in practice ranging from 4 months to 46 years.
A majority are in solo practice, some are in practice with a partner, and some have multiple partners.
So, to celebrate this 100th episode, I reviewed the interviews Iβve done with 27 plastic and cosmetic surgeons around the nation, and in Lebanon, to give you my top 10 take-a-ways of what they are doing to succeed:
Letβs get started:
====================
Take-a-way
#1. They have a Growth Mindset
They believe their abilities can be developed.
They are open to growing as a person, surgeon and business person.
They are passionate about growing their practice and always striving to be better.
They are willing to push the envelope, learn, evolve and change.
They stay open to life and opps that comes their way
They think positive and are optimistic about their future
They have resilience and see change as an opportunity to grow
They believe their efforts determine their abilities and growth.
They are open to new technologies, marketing trends and surgical techniques.
Take-a-way #2: They learn new skills
Many surgeons have decided they are good at surgery but not good at managing people or business or marketing.
So their minds are shut down to learning
Maybe because they spent so much time as a student, they are done.
Or business wasnβt taught in medical school so they are closed to learning new skills.
The successful surgeons open their mind and learn the business of plastic surgery by reading books, joining masterminds
They study and believe the sayings:
Earners are Learners and Leaders are readers
They believe they can learn to do anything and like to try new things vs. sticking to what they already know.β
Take-a-way #3: They know their numbers
They manage their money.
They watch their expenses and know their ROI on their SX and non-SX procedures as well as their marketing efforts.
They have goals they are trying to hit, and the staff knows them as well.
Rather than abdicate their responsibility, they take full responsibility for knowing whatβs happening in their practice.
They have a bookkeeper and accountant to do the work, but they review the work and numbers regularly so there are no surprises.
They review the bank statements and ask questions, so staff knows they are watching the numbers.
Take-a-way #4:They treat their team like an asset rather than a liability
Staff is not an overhead expense
They know they canβt do this alone and need a team supporting them
They meet with their team regularly and get their feedback from the front lines
They have a trusted right-hand helping them keep the business side running smoothly
They Have a Team Concept
They respect the staff to be professionals but stillβ¦.they Trust AND Verify
They build a culture of a team with a purpose
Philanthropic efforts to give back are a key part of their culture
They meet with staff regularly to lead them and keep them in the loop.
They set up a culture of excellence and offer good pay, team bonuses, free additional training to better the staff so they grow as well as incentives and appreciation including team parties, food trucks and in-house masseuse to keep it fun.
And, they hire slow and fire fast if someone does not fit with their culture.
Take-a-way #5: They have a βpatients for lifeβ mindset
They see their patients as friends and family and treat them with respect
They understand that these happy patients can be patients for decades and refer their friends and family and return for more
They know itβs far easier to KEEP these patients coming back so they offer comprehensive services to include all stages in life.
Actually, Dr. Grant Stevens reported on average cosmetic patients have 3 SX over 22 years for a value of $80K-$120K.
They attract more sophisticated patients who know you get what you pay for vs. catering to the price sensitive who donβt value skill and experience as much as saving money.
They go above and beyond to take care of their patients by offering their cell phone and one surgeon even did house calls.
Rather than discount their surgery they added value instead. For example, facelifts came with skin rejuvenation laser treatments and lymphatic massage came with liposuction.
Take-a-way #6: They fail and learn from it
They see failure as an opp to grow rather than a limit on their abilities.
They know failure is just feedback and they try again.
They see challenges as a good thing vs. I donβt like to be challenged.
They stay curious and ask lots of questions
They take responsibility for everything that happens in their practice and they deal with it professionally.
They React Quickly to Issues that come up and think solutions.
For example, a practice was losing 30% of patients who couldnβt afford big surgical cases, so one surgeon started his own internal financing service.
And, During the COVID shutdown, many used that time as an opp to keep staff busy with training, improving their systems and fine-tuning their processes.
Take-a-way #7: They Donβt Care What Others Think About Them
They stay focused on what they are doing more than what their competitors are doing
They donβt care as much what their critics say about them as they do what their patients say about them then since they are the ones paying the surgeonβs bills.
They do care what their patients think about them and they learn from their bad reviews
They meet with their staff to ask,βIs there any truth to this criticism?β and How can we do better?
Take-a-way #8: They Spend Money to Make Money
They know money buys them time
They see marketing as an investment
Rather than focus on saving money β they focus on making money
They think abundance vs. scarcity
They know you canβt shrink your way to success β you can cut some expenses, but the real way to wealth is to focus on assets and income.
They are frugal with their time, not their money
They understand the opp costs of doing things that should be outsourced such as learning SEO and writing your own web copy.
They have win-win relationships with their vendors who help them succeed
during COVID , several surgeons doubled down on their marketing and cut deals with advertisers when everyone else pulled back. That allowed them to gain attention and market share.
They give money away. They donate to worthy causes because it gives their staff the βwhyβ they do what they do and a common purpose for the whole team and it makes everyone feel good.
Take-a-way #9: They Keep Their Ego in Check & control their emotions
They are even tempered and treat everyone with respect.
They are opened to being wrong if it helps the practice grow
They see feedback as constructive vs. taking feedback and criticism personally.
They take responsibility and donβt blame staff, the competition or the government.
They get outside help to discover what they donβt know that is holding them back.
They ask Questions vs. being a Know-it-All
They stay open to ideas and suggestions from their staff and advisors.
They are able to let go of control and micro-managing because they trust the people around them
They are competitive by nature and use that for motivation to grow
They stay curious by visiting other practices, attending conferences and talking with their collegues to learn what others are doing thatβs working.
They are always honing their kraft to make them the best at what they do
When a challenge comes up, they focus on solutions, rather than running from it and hoping it goes away.
They eliminate practice drags such as draining staff and difficult patients.
They also delegate tasks they dislike doing to people they trust, but they also follow up to be sure itβs getting done.
And take-a-way #10:They think big
They grow uncomfortable being the only revenue-generator in the practice.
They look for ways to leverage their reputation, experience and staff.
They figure out how to scale by working ON their practice rather than IN it.
They see they could do more than just surgery.
They look at other streams of income rather than work harder and longer which leads to burn out and ineffectiveness.
They spend more time finding, managing and mentoring key players in their practice who become major revenue generators so the surgeon can focus more on the business side such as
adding more surgeons, injectors, aestheticians and locations.
And there you have it!
the 10 take-a-ways I got from the surgeons I interviewed.
You may want to listen to that again since it contains lots of pearls to consider when creating your own roadmap to success.
And, Of course, please contact me if you could use guidance.
Just leave me a message on my website or DM on Instagram.
Ok, thatβs it for now and please do me a favor and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and Iβd love a good review.
Take care!
Here's a BIG THANKS to all of the industry experts who shared with me their most successful tips and advice:
Gary Linkov, MD - https://cityfacialplastics.com/ Adam J. Rubinstein, MD, FACS - https://www.dr-rubinstein.com/ Tuan A. Truong, MD, FACS, FAAP - https://liftplastics.com/ Manish Shah, MD, FACS - https://drmanishshah.com/ Alex Thiersch, JD β Founder & Director of the American Med Spa Association - https://www.americanmedspa.org/ E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS β Former President AAFPRS, ABFPRS & AACS - https://mccolloughplasticsurgery.com/ Robert Singer, MD β Former President of The Aesthetic Society - https://www.RSingerMD.com/ Victoria Givens, MD - https://www.givensmd.com/ Gregory Buford, MD - https://www.beautybybuford.com/ Thomas Jeneby, MD - https://drjenebyplasticsurgery.com/ Shady Hayek, MD - https://shadyhayek.com/ James Marotta, MD - https://marottamd.com/ Dino Elyassnia, MD - https://www.dinomd.com/ Dave Kaufman, MD, FACS - https://www.thenaturalresult.com/ L. Mike Nayak, MD - https://www.nayakplasticsurgery.com/ Lorne Rosenfield, MD - https://drrosenfield.com/ Mark Constantian, MD - https://www.drconstantian.com/ Bruce Moskowitz, MD & Grigoriy Mashkevich, MD - https://www.specialtyaestheticsurgery.com/ Peterson Pierre, MD - https://pierreskincare.com/ Jennifer Walden, MD - https://www.drjenniferwalden.com/ Randy Waldman, MD - https://www.waldmanplasticsurgery.com/ George Bitar, MD FACS - https://bitarinstitute.com/ Jules Walters, MD - https://drjuleswalters.com/ David Sieber, MD - https://www.sieberplasticsurgery.com/ Francisco Canales, MD - https://dayspa.com/ Grant Stevens, MD, FACS - https://www.marinaplasticsurgery.com/ Robert Kotler, MD - https://www.robertkotlermd.com/ Robert Sigal, MD - https://www.austin-weston.com/robert-sigal Bill G. Kortesis, MD, FACS - https://www.hkbsurgery.com/about-us/our-doctors/bill-g-kortesis-md-facs/ Eric Dohner, MD, ABVLM - https://www.nysvc.com/ Christian Subbio, MD - https://www.drsubbio.com/
Beauty and the Biz with Dr. Gary Linkov of Manhattan:
β’ Pioneered the Elelyftβ’ Lip Lift
β’ Dual-Ive League Educated Surgeon
β’ Advanced Training in Sculpting, Painting and Sketching
β’ Has appeared on "The Dr. Oz Show"
β’ Teaching rhinoplasty procedures to the NYU head and neck surgery residents
Visit Dr. Linkov's Website:
https://CityFacialPlastics.com/
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
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Beauty and the Biz
The Slow Leak of Lost Patients
Have you ever wondered where your favorite patients went? You realize you havenβt seen them in a while and wonder if they moved.
I assure you; most are still around. They did NOT stop wanting cosmetic rejuvenation.
They just stopped wanting it from YOU.
Learn how to prevent and remedy this situation NOW!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz
The Slow Leak of Lost Patients
Have you ever wondered where your favorite patients went? You realize you havenβt seen them in a while and wonder if they moved.
I assure you; most are still around. They did NOT stop wanting cosmetic rejuvenation.
They just stopped wanting it from YOU.
Learn how to prevent and remedy this situation NOW!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz with Adam J. Rubinstein:
Former Chief of Plastic Surgery & Vice Chief of Surgery at Jackson North Medical Center.
Dr. Rubinstein shares his amazing social media efforts which is paving the way towards his upcoming, major network reality television series.
Learn the importance of complete transparency and more!
Visit www.Dr-Rubinstein.com
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
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Beauty and the Biz - 5 Most Common Mistakes Made By Plastic Surgeons
Learn how to avoid the pitfalls of running your practice. Catherine guides you through how to succeed with:
- Staff
- Current Patients
- Referrals
- Systems & Processes
- Marketing and More
Don't leave things to chance! Take your business by the reins, easily and effectively.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz - With Tuan Truong, MD, FACS, FAAP
Trained in plastic surgery at the renowned Mayo Clinic in AZ, and in private practice in Houston, TX, Dr. Truong has also been a faculty member at Baylor College of Medicine and Texas Childrenβs Hospital where he's trained the next generation of plastic surgeons.
Dr. Truong's Website:
https://LiftPlastics.com
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz - Patient Retention for Plastic Surgeons
Learn why capitalizing on your existing patients is the strongest strategy to keep ahead of your competition, and to reap a more steady stream of revenue.
Catherine shares her timeless wisdom garnered in over 40 years of helping practices get more patients and more profits.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz with Manish Shah, MD, FACS
Dr. Shah shares his wisdom from over 16 years in private practice, with over 10K surgeries in total (including 2K facelifts), and performing an average of 75 eyelid procedures and 50 rhinoplasties annually!
Dr. Shah's Website:
https://DrManishShah.com
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz
While 65 Million people in the US would consider facial injectables,, only 4 Million have been treated.
Thatβs only 6% of the market so the room for growth is huge!
The injectables prognosis for the coming year looks favorable, and Catherine shares how to effectively capture this turn-key sector of the industry and reap the patients AND profits!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz
Word-of-Mouth referrals are your golden ticket to increased close ratios, decreased external marketing costs, and growth through the cheapest form of advertising you can invest in! Help your patients become your brand ambassadors as your revenue multiplies exponentially! It's as easy as 1-2-3!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
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Beauty and the Biz
Get a fresh legal perspective on running your practice from someone who knows the aesthetic industry while holding a juris doctorate.
Alex Thiersch, JD is not only a member of the American Bar Association, but founder and director of the American Med Spa Association.
Visit Alex's LinkedIn Page:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-thiersch-1135388/
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz - YouTube Marketing for Plastic Surgeons
Learn the ins and outs of what to do and how to do it to increase your scope of exposure to potential patients and potential profits!
Catherine explains her best, rock-solid tips to better market you and your practice to the right potential patients.
Focus your efforts and get the word out!
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz with Dr. E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS:
Pioneer and icon in the field of plastic surgery. In-Practice for 46 years and recently included in the National Registry of Whoβs Who, as well as Best Doctors in America and Americaβs Top Plastic Surgeons.
Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS & AACS.
www.McColloughPlasticSurgery.com
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz: Convert Callers and Consults on.
Learn Catherine's pro tips and step-by-step advice that you can begin using immediately. Get a higher conversion rate on callers and help those patients repeat and refer for endless patients and revenue WITHOUT LIMITS.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Beauty and the Biz Podcast with Robert Singer, MD FACS:
World-renowned former president of The Aesthetic Society.
Member of several international, national and state medical societies.
One of only 8 plastic surgeons who've been awarded the coveted ASERF Career Achievement Award
Has received awards and honors too numerous to mention.
https://www.RSingerMD.com/
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Social Media has become the most influential virtual space available today to help you grow your practice.
Since your prospective patients love social media, itβs no longer optional so you might as well embrace it and make it an important part of your marketing plan, your branding and a gateway to current and prospective patients.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Content Creation Marketing:
If you've noticed your website traffic declining and/or the quality of leads diminishing, itβs not your imagination.
The remedy is to create and distribute valuable, relevant and consistent content that attracts the right audience who is interested in cosmetic rejuvenation with the intent to drive them to you for your services.
I explain how.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Dr. Victoria Givens is a facial plastic surgeon in private practice in Austin, TX.
She was on her collegiate swim team and has earned several honors for athletic and academic excellence.
Sheβs a member of several medical societies including AAFPS and speaks and publishes around the world on her nasal and facial rejuvenation research.
https://www.GivensMD.com
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
How to Start 2021 Strong
With such an uncertain and volatile past year, practices the world over have taken a financial hit, with many closing their doors. Don't become another business casualty statistic, but learn what it will take to remain vigilant and prosper in the new year.
Get the tips to rise above the competition during this time of hidden opportunity.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Plan Out 2021
Growing a successful cosmetic surgery practice is a team sport. You canβt do this on your own. You need a team of trained staff who care about you and growing the practice, AND they need your leadership and direction. So youβll want to come up with your What β why and How plan for 2021. Here are my best tips to help guide you.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCall
Letβs talk about your patient coordinator.
Do you ever wonder what she thinks about her job?
Or why she canβt convert more consultations?
Or would you like to know what she thinks about how you interact with patients in a consultation?
Learn of the challenges your coordinator faces. Discover how to work together better to form a cohesive team for increased profits.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWith
Gregory Buford, MD, FACS:
- Author
- 4K+ breast-related procedures
- RealSelf Business Advisory Board member
- Speaker, consultant, advisor for industry vendors & media outlets
- Miss America Foundation judge
- Doctorβs Choice and Top Doc awards
- Featured in Vogue, ABC News and Fox TV
Dr. Buford's Website:
https://www.BeautyByBuford.com/
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
One Time or Lifetime Patient?
As a surgeon, it makes sense that you focus all of your efforts on finding "one-and-done" prospective patients ready for plastic surgery.
However, itβs difficult to win today with that strategy.
When you change your strategy and mindset from a one-time patient to a lifetime patient, your world opens up to new opportunities.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Marketing Plastic Surgery Procedures
Plastic surgeons, as well as other specialties and corporations, want to capitalize on the growing demand for cosmetic rejuvenation.
Marketing cosmetic surgery effectively takes strategy. Learn the ins and outs of how to easily make your practice the best choice in the eyes of prospective patients.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Plastic surgeons get back to basics that got them to where they are today, rather than run after shiny objects.
Reminder to do what you did to grow your practice when you first started out.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Increase non-surgical revenues, word-of-mouth referrals, reviews and social media reach WITHOUT discounts that cheapen your brand, hiring social media managers, or paying a penny towards advertising.
FREE! The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE! Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Social Media Ideas for Plastic Surgeons: The most influential virtual space available today to help you grow your practice. Learn the ins and outs of this unlimited gateway to current and prospective patients.
FREE: The choices your patients make...Explained:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dr. Jeneby:
Board certified plastic surgeon with an accredited office-based surgery center with MD Anesthesiologists in San Antonio, TX since 2002.
Member and Appointed Diplomat: ASPS.
National Trainer: SmartLipo & Dot Therapy Laser Resurfacing.
International Speaker: Adjustable breast implants.
https://DrJenebyPlasticSurgery.com
The psychology behind your patient's choices:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dr. Shady Hayek is a plastic and reconstructive surgeon practicing in Beirut, Lebanon and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
He is a member, author of articles and speaker at a number of national and international meetings, including ASAPS and ISAPS.
Dr. Hayek is also on the editorial board and is a reviewer of several medical journals.
https://shadyhayek.com/
Learn the psychology of your patient's mind:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Imagine for a minute you owned the perfect plastic surgery practice. How would you achieve the following?
Transform Your Staff into a Team of Rock Stars.
Strategic Marketing and Planning.
Set Standards so You Donβt Compete on Price.
Create A Practice You Can Sell for Millions.
Learn about these core principles and more on this episode of Beauty and the Biz!
Learn the psychology of your patient's mind:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dr. Marotta, consistently voted Best Cosmetic Surgeon on Long Island since 2013, specializes in facial and endoscopic plastic surgery, rhinoplasty and hair restoration.
He's a volunteer with the National Domestic Violence Project and Faces of Honor. He is also a researcher who's published scientific articles and medical manuscripts.
https://www.MarottaMD.com
Learn the psychology of your patient's mind:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
How would your patients describe you to their family and friends?
What adjectives would best describe the type of service provider you are?
Differentiating yourself from the pack will help you grow your practice, increase your revenues, maintain your fair share of the market, attract better patients and beat your competition.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
If you were to listen in on your receptionist handling new caller leads, would you smile with satisfaction listening to her professionally credential you and book the consultation?
Or, would you cringe as she loses the callers and hurt your image all at the same time?
Just by fixing your phones, your front desk staff can easily convert 30% more callers to consultations.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Plastic surgery advertising is out of control and everywhere you look, you see offerings for deep discounted procedures.
Extreme competition is forcing some practices to lead with
price to attract new cosmetic patients.
This βGroupon Discount mindsetβ not only cheapens the surgeonβs image, but also our entire industry.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Sharon Thompson of Thompson Plastic Surgery shares the great results they've had with the "KiSS Club" to boost revenue with this turn-key strategy.
With an ROI of over 2000%, and all marketing done for the practice, it's easier, cheaper, more predictable, and also more fun for the patients!
Thompson Plastic Surgery:
https://www.ThompsonPlasticSurgeryCenter.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Surgeons from around the world tell me regularly how much pressure they feel from the relentless competition, fickle cosmetic patients, staff issues and running a practice by "winging it".
They donβt have a strategic plan to scale and they are not set up to exit when the time comes.
Tune in solid advice on how to unleash your practice's full potential
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
One of the biggest stresses of a cosmetic practice is finding a solid patient attraction plan you can count on to bring in new patients.
All you need is a proven method for maintaining a relationship with those patients, building trust, and encouraging them to return, refer, review and share you on social.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
2020 went from a hopeful to a haphazard year and has left many reeling and scrambling to get back on track.
This week, I give you 3 good patient attraction strategies to add to your marketing tool kit. These should make a difference and help you build your revenues back up so you finish out the year strong.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
A word of mouth referral is the absolute best advertisement you can incorporate into your cosmetic practice. Itβs also the cheapest form of advertising that you can invest in and it takes minimal time and effort.
Word-of-mouth referrals will increase your closing ratios, decrease your external marketing costs and grow your practice.
So, how do you get them?
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Itβs not a mistake that some practices are hanging in there and
hoping for the best and others are confidently running a smooth-
running operation.
This episode of βBeauty and the Bizβ talks very specifically
about how you can take your own practice from good to great.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
What Iβve learned from consulting in this industry for 20 years and writing the book on it, the #1 reason cosmetic patients do NOT choose you is that they didnβt feel a connection with you.The good news is you can improve that fairly easily to increase your closing ratio and thatβs what this podcast is all about.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
When prospective cosmetic patients are uncertain about what to do, they look to other people around them they trust (or want to be like) such as experts, celebrities, friends, etc. Learn how to leverage this behavior just like those surgeons who charge 3-5X more than others...AND have a waiting list!
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Don't let the unexpected and recent U.S. patient surge blind you to the fact that we still don't have a clear picture of where we'll be at for the near future. Catherine discusses how smart marketing choices will better position you for whatever transpires.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Earning his medical degree from USC and scoring in the top 1% nationwide, Dino Elyassnia, MD is a fellow of the NY Eye and Ear Infirmary, and surgeon at the world-renowned Marten Clinic in San Francisco, CA. Tune in as Dr. Elyassnia shares his story for success with practical tips you can use in your own practice.
www.DinoMD.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dave Kaufman, MD, FACS: Cosmetic surgeon. Entrepreneur. Harvard graduate. Navy Seal.
Learn from Dave's unique perspective of running a successful practice, how he went from being an elite member of the US military to becoming a cosmetic surgeon, and learn valuable lessons and advice to apply at your own practice.
Dr. Kaufman's website:
https://www.thenaturalresult.com/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Tune in with Mike Nayak, MD of Nayak Plastic Surgery, An AAAHC accredited surgical facility, and of Avani Derm Spa in St. Louis. Hear how this successful practice, which has a 41 person team, has been able to cope and maintain through the uncertainty of the COVID-19 crisis. Get solid advice for your own practice and not just survive, but thrive.
www.NayakpPlasticSurgery.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dr. Rosenfield has been in practice for over 31 years, is a board member of AAPS, is a professor at both USCF and Stanford, has written several book chapters, and has been voted by his peers as being amongst the βBest Doctorsβ and βTop Doctors in Americaβ. Learn how you can succeed with your practice with practical advice and tips.
http://DrRosenfield.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dr. Mark Constantian, author of "Childhood Abuse, Body Shame, and Addictive Plastic Surgery: The face of Trauma", shares with us the factors leading to body dysmorphia and how to recognize this condition in unhappy patients.
He's former president of The Rhinoplasty Society, NESPRS and NESPS, as well as former ASPS board member.
https://www.DrConstantian.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Todayβs guests are two surgeons who joined forces to start their own practice in the most competitive area of the world β Park Avenue, NYC. Hear what's worked for them, and how they're keeping things together at the epicenter of the US COVID-19 pandemic.
Bruce Moskowitz, MD | Grigoriy Mashkevich, MD
https://www.SpecialtyAestheticSurgery.com/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Dr. Pierre is a board-certified cosmetic and medical dermatologist in Thousand Oaks, CA.
Known as "The Gentle Injector", he's been interviewed by Good Housekeeping, NBC News, Huff Post, MSN, Yahoo Lifestyle and others.
FREE CONSULTATIONS FOR A LIMITED TIME ($100 Value)!
Website: https://www.PierreSkinCare.com
Location: 77 E Rolling Oaks Dr # 207, Westlake Village, CA 91361
Phone: (805) 262-9068
Pinterest: https://www.Pinterest.com/PierreSkinCare/
FREE Book https://CatherineMaley.com
Jennifer Walden, MD shares her COVID-19 successes and challenges as owner of three medical spas and a full cosmetic surgery practice between Austin, Texas and New York City.
Dr. Walden:
https://www.DrJenniferWalden.com/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Tune in with Dr. Randy Waldman, founder of Vegas Cosmetic Surgery - The largest multi-specialty symposium of its kind in North America. Dr. Waldman serves on the Board of Directors of the American Board of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, and has coordinated or organized over 45 major medical conferences in the US and Europe. Heβs been named as one of the TOP 15 Influencers by Plastic Surgery Practice Magazine, and shares with you now his unique perspective on COVID-19. Learn what Dr. Waldmanβs doing with his own practice to stay afloat during these turbulent times, and get sound advice and discussion on whatβs working and what may come with the current pandemic.
Randy Waldman, MD: https://www.WaldmanPlasticSurgery.com
Learn about Dr. Waldmanβs next conference in South Beach, Miami, FL: http://www.GlobalAestheticsConference.com
Surgeons are also invited to join a private facebook group at: https://www.facebook.com/AestheticAuthorityNews/
Catherine's FREE Book: http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine: http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode Transcript: http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Dr. Bitar shares insight of what's in store for the industry, how to survive the crisis with minimal effect on your practice, and how to rise above it all when the dust clears.
Visit Dr. Bitar's Website:
https://www.BitarInstitute.com
Visit Dr. Bitar's Instagram Page:
https://www.instagram.com/thebitarinstitute/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode Transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Catherine Maley, MBA and Jules Walters, MD discuss and share their thoughts on the COVID-19 crisis and the impact it's had on cosmetic surgeons and their businesses. Get solid advice on keeping your practice afloat during these troubled times.
Visit Dr. Walters' Website:
https://DrJulesWalters.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode Transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Listen to the unique perspective of David A. Sieber, MD in relation to COVID-19 and his San Francisco practice. Learn what's working for him as Catherine shares her sound advice on making the best of the pandemic situation.
Visit Dr. Sieber's Website:
https://www.SieberPlasticSurgery.com/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE Advice Call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode Transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Hear Catherine's prognosis and predictions on the aesthetic industry after COVID-19. Get sound tips to not only survive, but thrive! Learn what it will take to have a solid game plan to hit the deck running once things pan out. Don't get left in the dust!
Get Catherine's FREE Plan:
https://bit.ly/COVID-19_Restart
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Co-founder of a Black Diamond Top-200 Med Spa, Dr. Francisco Canales, MD, lends insight on practice survival during crises through his unique perspective of weathering 3 practice closures in 3 years due to disasters, and now, COVID-19.
Dr. Francisco Canales, MD
https://AllegroMedSpaSonoma.com/Dr-Francisco-Canales
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Dr. Grant Stevens is an internationally recognized industry leader, former ASAPS President, and Founder and Medical Director at Marina Plastic Surgery. Listen in as he shares his solid advice and wisdom to help your practice weather the COVID-19 storm.
Grant Stevens, M.D., FACS
https://www.MarinaPlasticSurgery.com/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Join Catherine as she guest speaks on "The Top Cosmetic Gynecologists" podcast, hosted by Dr. Marco A. Pelosi III, MD, FACOG, FACS.
Learn how virtual consults can keep your practice afloat during the COVID-19 crisis. It's easy!
Dr. Marco A. Pelosi III, MD, FACOG, FACS
https://www.DrMarcoPelosi.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Get the inside scoop from a seasoned veteran who's performed a mind-blowing 10,000 surgical procedures with over 30 years of practice experience. Dr. Kotler explains the importance of "less is more" and how specialization can keep you afloat during recession.
Robert Kotler, MD:
https://www.RobertKotlerMD.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Your sales will slow down during the pandemic, but have you considered virtual consultations so you don't bottom out? Catherine lays it out step-by-step with what you need to know to set up and conduct them effectively.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Catherine's talk at the 35th AACS meeting in Las Vegas!
Get an IMMEDIATE increase in consultations:
1. Have your receptionist listen to this podcast.
2. Have her implement the simple techniques.
Ready for the next level?
Visit The Converting Club at:
https://www.ConvertConsultations.com
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Catherine's biggest marketing podcast to date! A tremendous compendium of rock-solid, easy-to-implement advice for those who want to see their practice soar!
More Info at:
http://ProspectToPatient.com/
FREE Patient Attraction Blueprint
https://www.CatherineMaley.com/2020-Patient-Attraction-Blueprint/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn the challenges and successes of Robert Sigal, MD, as he shares his 25 years of insight and expertise on all facets of running a partnership practice. Not to be missed!
www.austin-weston.com/robert-sigal
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn a multitude of ways to sell your non-surgical services for more patients and more profits. Catherine covers aspects of in-house and digital marketing, talk scripts, VIP clubs, patient events and more! Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as a top industry advisor and start increasing your revenue today!
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
A gold mine of marketing advice you won't want to miss! These are some of Catherine's most coveted pro-marketing tips that she's developed over 40+ years in the industry. Get on target with easy-to-implement strategies that you can start today!
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Your Coordinator is the gatekeeper who "allows" or "prevents" conversions even if they don't realize it! Get practical tips on how to help them excel!
Want to take your Coordinator to the next level?
$1 Trial for Catherine's Converting Club for Coordinators:
http://bit.ly/Converting-Club-Trial-02-05-20
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Have your Receptionist and Coordinator listen to these simple tips that they can implement today! Includes talk track examples on how to gather contact info and convert your consults into patients without being pushy. Give your team the tools they need to increase practice revenue easily and instantly.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Listen in as Bill Kortesis, MD, FACS shares his timeless advice on joining a practice, scaling the business, marketing, customers, staff, and what your true goals should be to take your practice to the next level. It may be different than you think!
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Celebrate Catherine's 20th year in helping cosmetic practices get more patients and more profits with her most coveted top-20 cosmetic patient attraction strategies for 2020!
Get the FREE report at:
https://www.catherinemaley.com/
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
How badly do you want to reach and exceed your goals in 2020? Get some fresh tips from Catherine as she celebrates her 20th year helping aesthetic practices become more profitable.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
It's no secret that social media is a driving force in today's marketing climate, but has it surpassed email as the core channel of reaching your patients? Take a deep dive with Catherine as we explore this hot topic and learn ways for you to reap the benefits of both on this episode of Beauty and the Biz.
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn Catherine's best tips on building rapport with your prospective and current patients to get them to a "Yes"!
Make an extra $100,000 this year with Catherine's Free paperback book, Your Aesthetic Practice/What Your Patients Are Saying. 200 pages of her most coveted advice. FREE!
Catherine's FREE Book:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Catherine explains the importance of knowing your measurable data so that you can direct your marketing efforts with precision. Learn the importance of focusing on your local "bread and butter" patients versus chasing those out-of-town "one-hit wonders" that you'll never see again.
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
How good is your marketing if you're not looking in between the lines? Catherine offers her priceless wisdom on how to track your calls, where to focus your digital marketing efforts, and how to get deep intel on your engagers. Knowledge is power...AND profits!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
This episode is packed with tips and step-by-step guaranteed profitable advice that Catherine normally charges thousands for. Now free and more relevant than ever to capitalize on your existing and new patients. Just in time for the holidays!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Proven benefits, advice and tips on the importance of, and how to video market yourself in today's competitive marketplace. Let yourself shine through as a skilled and personable Doc and connect with your patient base on a more human, intimate level.
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Catherine shares her practical tips and examples on super easy ways to ramp up profits over the holidays. Just in time to reap the rewards before the year's close!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
In this episode, Dr. Dohner explains the need to write your book to:
β’ Make You an Authority
β’ Get Name Recognition
β’ Earn Prestige and Respect
β’ Get FREE PR
β’ Set you apart from the herd
Dr. Dohner's FREE Hardcover Book & Slides on Writing YOUR Book:
http://writeyourbook.us/
Catherine's FREE Patient Perspective Book for Surgeons:
http://bit.ly/CatherinesFreeBook
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
In this episode, discover how to:
Identify your core markets and why!
Connect with your target demographics with appealing messages that get through to them!
Choose the marketing channels that will be most effective based on your chosen audience!
...And much, much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Discover in this episode:
How your patient event can rake in new patients!
Best practices and pitfalls
What to serve at your event!
Vendor guests!
Planning, advertising and follow up!
...And much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
In this episode:
In-depth advice on what your receptionist should be doing and saying!
Easy dialogue transitions to keep your receptionist in control of the call to get more consultations!
Practical overview on the importance of mystery shopping your own practice!
...And much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Listen as Catherine walks you through a complete receptionist script to get quality consults through your door!
Receptionist "Do's and Don'ts" while on the phone with prospects!
Easy to implement right away to get you more surgeries!
...And much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
DO NOT MISS THIS EPISODE!
A literal GOLDMINE of top-notch advice to bring your patients in again and again...and bring their friends and family in as well!
Recover "lost" consults with Catherine's plain and simple advice.
A dead easy guide to get you out of the gate sprinting!
...And much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
In this podcast, you'll learn:
3 Simple ways to get more surgeries.
What not to do during the consultation.
How to increase revenue from existing patients.
What your staff should be doing.
What you should be doing.
...And much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
In this podcast, you'll learn:
How to set up systems so that your practice runs like a well-oiled machine!
How to assemble a team of superstars that have your back!
How to set up your practice in such a way you can sell it at a premium when you're ready to exit!
...And much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Do you dream of being in the OR all day where you can hide from the pressures of staff issues, pushy vendors and never-ending decision-making?
In this podcast, weβll do an assessment of your practice to see if you are set up for success or if you could use some help.
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as marketing and business advisor for top aesthetic practices around the world:
β’ Get high-quality leads!
β’ Marketing pitfalls and avoidance!
β’ Turn leads into patients and much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as marketing and business advisor for top aesthetic practices around the world:
β’ Take charge of public feedback on your practice.
β’ How to drive business while getting great reviews.
β’ Easy coaxing techniques to get your customers to take a survey.
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as marketing and business advisor for top aesthetic practices around the world:
β’ Tried and tested easy staff strategies to boost practice revenue.
β’ Hone your team to increase sales without hard-sell pressure.
β’ Tons of staff-boosting tips and much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as marketing and business advisor for top aesthetic practices around the world:
- Digital marketing pitfalls
- What works and what doesn't in increasing patient revenue
- Easy ideas on generating more profit immediately
- ...And much much more!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as marketing and business advisor for top aesthetic practices around the world.
- Learn how to beat the "summer slump" and capitalize on missing revenue!
- New ways to profit from the patients you already have!
- Easy-sell tactics to increase non-invasive sales!
FREE practice-building content:
http://bit.ly/FreeStuffFromCatherine
FREE advice call with Catherine:
http://bit.ly/FreeCallWithCatherine
Episode transcript:
http://bit.ly/BeautyAndTheBiz
You will get my tips, tricks, tools and strategies I have stored up from decades of experience working in non-profit medical
associations, for-profit Fortune 500 companies and, of course, solo and group cosmetic practices.
In this episode, you will discover:
- My journey from a not-so-great childhood in Chicago to now;
- How I became an influencer in the aesthetic industry; and
- What you need to know to succeed in this competitive marketplace.
Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript
Thanks to advancements in technology, everybody is a potential prospective patient for your cosmetic services, but everybody is everywhere so what do you do? In this episode, Catherine will describe and good and bad of each demographic to help you decide where to put your resources to attract the "right" patients to you. This information is fundamental in establishing an effective marketing plan. Not to be missed! Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript
Learn three fundamental ways to get your "fan patients" to do the marketing for you with word-of-mouth advertising as well as how to "help them help you" with bringing in more patients. You'll get a higher return on your invested time and efforts. Not to be missed!
Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript
Learn some of Catherine's pro tips on how to effectively cross-sell your other procedures, treatments and products that compliment your patient's current purchases. A great way to effortlessly boost your sales like magic!
This is mandatory listening for increased revenue with little to no expense! Your ROI can go through the roof if you simply follow Catherine's easy-to-implement strategies!
Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript
Learn Catherine's pro-tips from her 40+ years as marketing and business guru for top aesthetic practices around the world.
In this Episode of Beauty and the Biz:
- Learn how to get your consults into the door without any bad surprises!
- Glean only the best consults from your pool of prospects!
- Get them to say yes!
- How to capitalize on existing patients while profiting from new ones!
Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript
Don't let this happen to you!
"I'm often consulting with a practice or a surgeon and they call me and you can hear they're hesitant about describing their coordinator. When I mention, βSo how are your conversion rates?β, I can hear the hemming and hawing. So, let me just back up by saying, if you're already at that stage, listen to this podcast because I'm going to show you how to get a great coordinator!"
-Catherine Maley, MBA
Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript
Catherine presents several strategies to keep your prospective patients from going with your competitors, how to address consult objections, and how to assume the sale. These simple techniques can lead to thousands of dollars in increased revenue.
Not to be missed!
Click to Schedule a FREE call with Catherine and learn how she can take your practice to the next level
Click to get FREE practice-building content for surgeons and staff
Click for the Complete transcript