The Disrupters: Faith Changing Culture: Recent Episodes
InterVarsity Press
For season three, sociologist and pop-culture expert Nancy Wang Yuen invites a diverse group of culture movers and history makers who live out their faith in unexpected ways to discuss faith, identity, and their creative work. Yuen is the author of Reel Inequality: Hollywood Actors and Racism and coeditor with Deshonna Collier-Goubil of Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy. She serves as an associate professor of sociology at Biola University. She has appeared on PBS, NPR, MSNBC, CBS News, NBC News, BBC World, and Dr. Phil. She is a guest writer at CNN, Elle, Los Angeles Times, NBC, and Newsweek.
You need to slow down.
So many leaders are driven by the fear of falling behind, convinced that impact requires urgency. And in the frantic pace of the modern world, we forget that God never told us to sprint ahead; he invited us to walk alongside him.
In the final episode of Season 6 of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with author, speaker, filmmaker, and VeggieTales creator Phil Vischer. In their conversation, Phil shares about the rapid rise and rapid fall of Big Idea Productions. He opens up about how speed became his idol and how slowing down has allowed God to redeem his failures. Now, as co-host of The Holy Post podcast and a storyteller for the next generation, Phil reflects on what it means to follow Jesus without being consumed by a relentless need to hurry.
Throughout their conversation, Phil warns listeners about the pressures of staying ahead and the toxic pace of modern ministry. From identity to insecurity, performance to obedience, this episode is a powerful reminder that you don’t need to impress God. You just need to patiently walk with him.
When we crucify speed, we find the joy, peace, and purpose only God’s pace can provide.
Tune in now to learn how slowing down might be the most faithful thing you can do as a leader.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Crucifying speed in a culture addicted to hurry
- Redefining our failure and success through God’s eyes
- Obedience always outweighs outcomes
Links from the episode:
- Discover more about Phil Vischer
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin's book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Leaders are expected to meet increasingly high standards, but many are silently suffering under the pressure of constantly needing to perform. But God never called us to perform—He called us to be relational people.
In this episode of The Disrupters, host Nicole Martin is joined by Sheila Wise Rowe and Dr. Nicholas Rowe, co-authors of Healing Leadership Trauma, spiritual formation mentors, and longtime leaders in ministry and education. Sheila Wise Rowe is an award-winning author and counselor who has spent over 30 years walking alongside abuse and trauma survivors. Dr. Nicholas Rowe is the Hansen Associate Professor of Leadership at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, with decades of experience in leadership, reconciliation, and formation. Together, they offer not only practical wisdom but a deep well of spiritual insight.
Through honest reflection, they unpack how unhealed trauma fuels performance-based leadership and how many Christian leaders carry the past, present, and future like a crushing weight. They discuss how early wounds, fear of failure, and pressure to succeed can disconnect leaders from their core identity in Jesus. But when you crucify performance, what rises is something far more powerful: character rooted in truth, leadership grounded in rest, and a witness that’s not built on performance, but presence.
Tune in now to discover how surrendering performance can allow you to lead as a “human being,” not a “human doing.”
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Crucifying performance and recovering authenticity
- Healing leadership trauma across past, present, and future
- Leading others by being rooted in your identity in Christ
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Sheila Wise Rowe and Dr. Nicholas Rowe
- Check out their book: Healing Leadership Trauma
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin's book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
In a culture that promises life will go "up and to the right," we're conditioned to believe that success follows a predictable trajectory of increasing achievement and personal fulfillment. But for Christians who desire to lead more faithfully, our expectations for life and leadership must come from what God says about us, about our calling, and about his kingdom.
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin talks with Joanna Meyer, Director of Public Engagement at the Denver Institute for Faith and Work and author of the award-winning book Women, Work and Calling. As a leader in the national Women, Work and Calling initiative, Joanna brings deep insight into how Gospel-formed expectations become the foundation for authentic calling and faithful leadership.
Nicole and Joanna explore what it means to crucify our expectations and lead from a place of flexible surrender rather than rigid entitlement. They share about their experiences as women who lead and serve in the Church, and how they’ve needed to navigate and sometimes reject the expectations that have been placed upon them in the process. Joanna shares her journey through unmet expectations, revealing how beauty and brokenness have worked together to shape her calling and deepen her relationship with Jesus. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize the difference between being faithful and being fruitful, challenging listeners to align their hopes with what God promises will be rather than their own expectation of what should be.
Tune in now to discover how to develop faithful expectations, navigate disappointment, and remain anchored in the Gospel when life doesn't go according to plan.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The difference between being faithful and being fruitful in leadership
- How broken expectations can deepen intimacy with Christ
- Moving forward in faithfulness when life doesn't meet expectations
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Joanna Meyer
- Check out Joanna's book: Women, Work and Calling
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin's book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
In a culture obsessed with numerical growth and expansion, Christian leaders often measure success by the size of their congregation, budget, or influence. But for believers who desire to lead with integrity and purpose, we must reframe our leadership goals with a different question in mind: "What are we measuring, and why?"
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Bishop Geoffrey Dudley, pastor of New Life in Christ Church and CEO of Ilead Enterprises. As a retired Air Force chaplain with over 20 years of service and the author of Leading Through the Storms, Bishop Dudley brings practical leadership wisdom and spiritual insight to navigating ministry growth and decline.
Together, Nicole and Bishop Dudley explore what it means to "crucify scale" and lead through the inevitable storms of ministry. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize that true success isn't measured merely by numbers but by the depth of maturity, spiritual growth, and kingdom impact. Bishop Dudley shares his journey from preaching at age thirteen, Air Force chaplaincy, and later to pastoring a thriving church, revealing how storms and challenges crystallized his calling and transformed his approach to leadership. Together, they invite us to practice honest self-reflection and align our understanding of scale with God’s vision.
If you've ever felt dissonance between your vision for growth and your current reality, this conversation is for you.
Tune in now to discover how to measure what truly matters and lead faithfully through both seasons of expansion and turbulence.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Finding meaning beyond numerical metrics in ministry
- Preparing for inevitable leadership storms
- Developing multi-generational leadership for long-term impact
- Differentiating between growing a church and growing disciples
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Bishop Geoffrey Dudley
- Check out Bishop Dudley's book: Leading Through the Storms
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin's book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
In a culture that celebrates the pursuit of “more,” we’re taught that success is measured by the accumulation of wealth. But for Christians who desire to lead their families, churches, or organizations well, we must commit to a different teaching: “You cannot serve both God and money.”
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Bob Doll, CEO and Chief Investment Officer at Crossmark Global Investments, a long-time financial strategist and faithful servant leader. With over 40 years in the financial industry and regular appearances as a finance correspondent on CNBC and Bloomberg, Bob brings both economic insight and a gospel-centered mindset to wealth management.
Together, Nicole and Bob talk about what it looks like to follow Jesus in a consumption society. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize that God doesn’t want our money—he wants us—challenging us to reassess how we define our own value. Bob offers practical wisdom on confronting the love of money, decluttering our lives, and living with an eternal perspective. He shares how he balances wealth with generosity while keeping the Kingdom of God front and center.
If you’ve ever struggled to serve God with your finances or felt trapped in the iron grip of material wealth, this conversation is for you.
Tune in now to discover how to live generously, steward well, and invest in eternal riches.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The differences between temporary and eternal wealth
- Living in freedom from the fear of scarcity
- How to faithfully save, invest, and use our money
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Bob Doll
- Check out Crossmark Global Investments
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
To whom have you given your loyalty? Who is loyal to you?
A hallmark of modern leadership is the demand for unquestioning loyalty—loyalty to the boss, loyalty to the organization, loyalty to the vision. But when loyalty is demanded instead of inspired, it can quietly become a weapon of control that quashes dissent, silences the vulnerable, and enables abuse. And misplaced loyalties can create harmful power imbalances in even the most equitable organizations.
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with Dr. Natasha Sistrunk Robinson—writer, international speaker, leadership consultant, mentoring coach, and founder of Leadership LINKS, Inc. Natasha is a former Marine Corps officer, graduate of the US Naval Academy, and author of many books, including A Sojourner’s Truth. With over two decades of leadership experience across the military, government, church, and nonprofit spaces, she brings clarity and conviction to what it means to lead with integrity and inspire loyalty to God.
Natasha offers stories from her time in the military and the church, exposing how misplaced loyalty can cover abuse, silence victims, and keep leaders trapped in cycles of control. From church politics to mentoring dynamics, she names the hard truths: spiritual leaders are not immune to abusing people’s loyalty, and even Christians can be tempted to place their loyalty with people rather than with God. But she also shows a better way—how consistent meditation on God’s Word and practicing sacrificial leadership can inspire loyalty to God and his mission rather than to us and our own.
Jesus never demanded loyalty, he invited people to follow. And healthy leaders should do the same. Tune in now.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Practicing intentional, considerate, sacrificial leadership
- Power dynamics, boundaries, and abuse of loyalty
- How to lead to inspire loyalty to Jesus and his mission
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Natasha Sistrunk Robinson
- Read Natasha Sistrunk Robinson’s book: A Sojourner’s Truth
- Explore Leadership LINKS
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
What if your desire to “get it right” is the very thing preventing you from doing what God wants to do through you? We often cling to perfection because we fear loss. However, transformation and leading through change always demand it.
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Tod Bolsinger, leadership expert, professor, and author of the new Practicing Change Series, as well as Canoeing the Mountains and Tempered Resilience. Tod is the founder of AE Sloan Leadership and serves as executive director of the DePree Center Church Leadership Institute. With decades of pastoral and consulting experience, he brings powerful wisdom on navigating real transformation in leadership, especially when the path forward is unclear, uncomfortable, and costly.
In this engaging conversation, Tod challenges the myth of lossless leadership and invites us into the real work of adaptive change. He confronts the idol of perfectionism in leadership, showing how anxiety, ego, and the pressure to always know what to do frequently get in the way of real growth. He challenges Christians to stop expecting that following Jesus will be a comfortable, lossless process. Tod also shares how spiritual resilience is formed, not found, and how keeping a Jesus-centered view of organizational leadership requires pursuing the mission, never the brand.
When we stop trying to control the outcome and instead join hands with others, we begin to move forward one faithful, imperfect step at a time. Because the goal isn’t about looking like you’ve got it all together. It’s about trusting God enough to lose what’s safe, so something eternal can rise in its place.
Tune in now to discover what you need to lay down to lead with courage, clarity, and Christ at the center of everything.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Crucifying perfection and embracing transformation
- Leading through loss and adaptive change
- Holding mission and identity above brand and image
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Tod Bolsinger
- Read Tod Bolsinger’s new series: Practicing Change
- Read Tod Bolsinger’s books: Canoeing the Mountainsand Tempered Resilience
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
What if the influence you’re chasing is costing you a more valuable, eternal reward? In a culture obsessed with instant likes, applause, and relevance, many leaders are settling for temporary honor instead of eagerly seeking God’s praise.
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with Christine Caine—speaker, author, activist, and founder of A21, Propel Women, and Equip & Empower. For over 30 years, Christine has served the global Church, fought human trafficking, and raised up women to walk boldly in their God-given purpose. She brings raw honesty and spiritual fire to this conversation, sharing what it really means to crucify our obsession with worldly influence and to influence the world for Jesus instead.
Christine speaks with conviction about the difference between fame and faithfulness, urging us to surrender to God in the hard seasons that He uses to shape us. She challenges the idea that anointing is about being seen when it is more often forged in the dark—through obscurity, faith, failure, and years of preparation. As Christine shares stories of the cost of her own faithfulness, we’re reminded that real influence starts, is sustained, and ends in deep dependence on God.
True influence is not about how many people follow you, but whether your life leads others to follow Jesus. Listen to the full episode now.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Eternal rewards over temporary applause
- God’s anointing as the source of true influence
- Trusting God's process over platform-building
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Christine Caine
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Have you ever caught yourself craving applause more than God’s praise? In a culture that thrives on followers, likes, and platforms, it’s dangerously easy to let our egos take the lead.
But what if leadership was never meant to be about who sees you, but about how you radically serve others? What if true authority isn’t marked by the applause you receive from people, but by the joy you receive from God? That’s the message that Jesus taught when he said, “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to lay down his life as a ransom for many.”
In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with Chrishan Jeyaratnam, lead pastor at Hillsong East Coast. From growing up between cultures in Australia to leading one of the largest and most recognizable church communities in the world, Chrishan’s story is full of challenges, grace, and humble leadership. With profound vulnerability, he opens up about what it takes to tame the ego and stay grounded in God's love while standing on even the largest stages.
Chrishan shares his personal story—from navigating identity as a child of Sri Lankan immigrants in Australia to leading a global church in the heart of New York City. Along the way, he confesses the hidden weight many leaders quietly carry: the pressure to perform and the applause that feeds the ego. He reflects on how easy it is to confuse public affirmation with spiritual authority, and how even good intentions can become entangled with pride. But instead of shame, he offers a freeing truth: you don’t have to destroy your ego, you have to anchor it. Through contemplative silence, emotional intimacy with others, and a deep understanding of God’s unwavering delight, he urges leaders to stop leading for love and start leading from love. Because God’s message to his people isn’t just “Be strong”—it’s “Be still and know that I am God.”
We invite you to join us in crucifying our egos together. Engage in God’s joy, feel his pleasure in your calling, and start leading from a place of wholeness and humility. Listen to the episode now!
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The essential, daily discipline of crucifying ego in leadership
- Narcissism, pride, and how societies reward self-centeredness
- Leading for God’s praise instead of worldly affirmation
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Chrishan Jeyaratnam
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin’s Book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
True power isn’t about control—it’s about surrender. When the world demands dominance, Jesus calls us to be servants, people who are a witness to God’s power by the way we live in “with-ness” with others.
In this first episode of the sixth season of The Disrupters podcast, Hosanna Wong joins host Nicole Martin to tackle one of the most common leadership idols: Power. Wong is an international speaker, bestselling author, and spoken word artist. Known for her powerful piece “I Have A New Name,” she challenges us in this episode to embrace the truth that God’s power actually is made perfect in our weakness. Her latest book, “You Are More Than What You've Been Told,” unpacks how God's love for us overshadows what the world says about us.
In this conversation, we’re confronting what it means to crucify our own power so that we can lead in God’s divine power instead. Step into the freedom of sharing the Good News with people, not holding it over them. Discover the hope found in real relationships and learn what it means to stay rooted in God's power, even when the pressures of leading become overwhelming. Be encouraged to trust God more deeply as Wong shares a story about her brother Elijah, a testament to the impact of God’s miraculous power in her own life.
Be inspired. Be challenged. Be disrupted. Tune in to discover how the power of God’s love can heal and transform us and our leadership practices.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Leading in God’s power when you are powerless
- Authenticity and humility in leadership
- The impact of God's love over worldly power
Links from the episode:
- Learn more about Hosanna Wong
- Read Hosanna Wong’s book: You Are More Than What You've Been Told
- Learn more about Nicole Martin
- Read Nicole Martin’s Book: Nailing It
- Read the transcript here
Credits:
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
The world is undergoing a crisis of leadership.
Traditional models of leadership are no longer serving institutions and their constituents well.
Leaders need new, innovative paradigms to counter the status quo and to serve their organizations.
In season six of The Disrupters, host Nicole Massie Martin, IVP author and chief operating officer at Christianity Today, reveals healthy leadership disruptions that lead to flourishing in the home, the workplace, the church, and the world.
Martin converses with pastors, executives, parents, activists, and influencers like Hosanna Wong, Tod Bolsinger, and Christine Caine to inspire us to crucify our leadership idols and nail our outdated leadership practices to the cross.
Join Nicole Massie Martin as she explores the ways that Christians can disrupt unhealthy leadership structures and practices.
Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or watch on the IVP YouTube channel.
Season six of The Disrupters kicks off on April 9th.
Links and Credits
- Learn more about The Disrupters
- Learn more about Nicole Massie Martin
- Read Nailing It by Nicole Massie Martin
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton
✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Today is the day after the U.S. presidential election. As the results are being announced, we come together to pause and reflect on the truth about our calling to love God and love people in the neighborhoods, towns, and cities in which we live.
In these three bonus episodes of the fifth season of The Disrupters, host Miranda Zapor Cruz asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves—and the noise?" during an election season? Join Miranda as she offers a disruption in the noise surrounding Election Day 2024 through meditations on her book Faithful Politics, accompanied by relevant Scripture readings, to combat the anxiety and uncertainties that accompany the selection of our next president. Together, these episodes educate, inspire, and reassure listeners who seek a healthy posture this election year, for the health of their souls as well as for the flourishing of their communities.
In this episode, releasing the day after Election Day 2024, Miranda offers a reflection on the unchanged calling of all Christians—to seek shalom where we live. She emphasizes that as Christians, we must join with Jesus Christ in loving and serving our neighbors and promoting the wellbeing of our towns and cities. This episode also features a reading of Jeremiah 29:4-14 from The First Testament, read by IVP authors Jay Kim, Carmen Imes, Dorena Williamson, and Robert Chao Romero.
Join us as we disrupt the noise of Election Day 2024 together.
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Miranda Zapor Cruz
- Check out Miranda’s book, Faithful Politics
- Check out The First Testament by John Goldingay
- Additional IVP Resources 2024 Election Season
Links and Credits
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Jack Reece and Helen Lee
✅ Assistant Producer: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅ Sound Engineering: Jack Reece
✅ Social Media Managers: Allie Noble and Makayla Payne
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "Half Life" by Adi Goldstein
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Today is the day of the U.S. presidential election. While we wait for the results to be counted, we come together to pause and reflect on the truth about our ultimate hope in the return of our eternal king, Jesus Christ.
In these three bonus episodes of the fifth season of The Disrupters, host Miranda Zapor Cruz asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves—and the noise?" during an election season? Join Miranda as she offers a disruption in the noise surrounding Election Day 2024 through meditations on her book Faithful Politics, accompanied by relevant Scripture readings, to combat the anxiety and uncertainties that accompany the selection of our next president. Together, these episodes educate, inspire, and reassure listeners who seek a healthy posture this election year, for the health of their souls as well as for the flourishing of their communities.
In this episode, releasing Election Day 2024, Miranda offers a reflection on the eternal hope that we have in Jesus Christ. She emphasizes that as Christians, we are citizens of God’s kingdom and waiting for the U.S. election results must pale in comparison to waiting for the return of our savior, Jesus Christ. This episode also features a reading of Philippians 3:20-4:1 from The Second Testament, read by IVP authors Scot McKnight, Lynn Cohick, Terence Lester, and Prasanta Verma.
Join us as we disrupt the noise of Election Day 2024 together.
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Miranda Zapor Cruz
- Check out Miranda’s book, Faithful Politics
- Check out The Second Testament by Scot McKnight
- Additional IVP Resources 2024 Election Season
Links and Credits
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Jack Reece and Helen Lee
✅ Assistant Producer: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅ Sound Engineering: Jack Reece
✅ Social Media Managers: Allie Noble and Makayla Payne
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "Half Life" by Adi Goldstein
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Today is the day before the U.S. presidential election. Before we vote, we come together to pause and reflect on the truth about who we are and whosewe are in Jesus Christ.
In these three bonus episodes of the fifth season of The Disrupters, host Miranda Zapor Cruz asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves—and the noise?" during an election season? Join Miranda as she offers a disruption in the noise surrounding Election Day 2024 through meditations on her book Faithful Politics, accompanied by relevant Scripture readings, to combat the anxiety and uncertainties that accompany the selection of our next president. Together, these episodes educate, inspire, and reassure listeners who seek a healthy posture this election year, for the health of their souls as well as for the flourishing of their communities.
In this episode, releasing the day before Election Day 2024, Miranda offers a reflection on the importance of Christian identity in the context of the United States presidential election. She emphasizes that Christian identity is built upon Jesus Christ—the chief cornerstone and “living lodgepole” —rather than political parties or ideologies. This episode also features a reading of 1 Peter 2:4-12 from the First Nations Version, read by IVP authors Terry Wildman, Chloe Sun, Amy Williams, and Michael Bird.
Join us as we disrupt the noise of Election Day 2024 together.
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Miranda Zapor Cruz
- Check out Miranda’s book, Faithful Politics
- Check out the First Nations Version, edited by Terry M. Wildman
- Additional IVP Resources for the 2024 Election Season
Links and Credits
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Jack Reece and Helen Lee
✅ Assistant Producer: Christine Pelliccio Melo
✅ Sound Engineering: Jack Reece
✅ Social Media Managers: Allie Noble and Makayla Payne
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "Half Life" by Adi Goldstein
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
For some, engaging in politics looks like watching particular cable news or social media networks and then amplifying whatever voices align with their own particular values or biases. But perhaps the key to healthy political engagement isn’t about spending time watching C-SPAN, but instead is about focusing on the people we are becoming.
In this last episode of season 5 of The Disrupters, Kaitlyn Schiess welcomes Michael Wear, founder of the Center for Christianity and Public Life. Together they explore the necessity of spiritual formation as an essential part of civic involvement and discuss the “election stress syndrome” that many have experienced after 2016. Wear also offers insights from his upcoming book The Spirit of Our Politicsto challenge conventional ideas of what it means to be a faithful Christian in the realm of politics.
Tune into this fascinating conversation on navigating the intersection of faith and politics with wisdom and grace.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The spiritual discipline of political engagement or abstention
- Distinction between meaningful political participation and political passivity
- The role of character and deep listening in transforming political discourse
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Michael Wear
- Learn more about the Center for Christianity and Public Life
- Check out Wear’s IVP book, Compassion (&) Conviction
- Check out Wear’s upcoming book, The Spirit of Our Politics
- Uncover insights from Politics is for Power by Eitan Hersh
- Read the document, Montgomery Improvement Association
- Learn About Mack McCarter, Founder of Community Renewal in Louisiana
- Learn About the Impact of Lead for America, American Connection Corps
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio and Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
When surrounded by all the needs in the world, people can become overwhelmed and paralyzed to even begin to engage politically if at all. But instead of thinking about every issue to engage in, perhaps the way forward is to find areas of deep focus and personal interest.
In this fascinating dive into the convergence of personal faith and public life, host Kaitlyn Schiess welcomes Kathryn Freeman, a voice of experience at the intersection of theology and political advocacy.
Freeman's journey is a testament to the power of pursuing deeply personal issues as the means to shape one’s public advocacy. Her nuanced understanding of political theology, shaped by both African American church traditions and seminary education, provides crucial insight into how churches and believers can navigate the everyday needs in their communities without getting overwhelmed by the broader political landscape.
Tune in to this episode to discover healthy ways to pursue local political engagement in a sustainable manner that reflects Christ-led, neighborly love.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The need to limit oneself in political involvement
- The profound political legacy of the African American church
- Relationship-building and its significance in community advocacy
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Kathryn Freeman
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio and Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
The impact of empire has far-reaching implications for the church, the nation, and the world. Even Christians who would claim that the kingdom of heaven is the only true ultimate rule and reign can find themselves complicit in supporting and furthering the empires of our current age.
Former presidential candidate Mark Charles wanted to show a different way forward, using the political process to speak truth to power. In this thought-provoking episode, host Kaitlyn Schiess speaks with Charles about lessons learned from his political run and the ways in which trauma has had a particular impact on the white majority in this country.
With a focus on healing historical trauma and rethinking the two-party system, Charles shares a compelling vision for a more inclusive and just future. His perspectives on political reform and communal trauma are not to be missed.
Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of how history shapes modern politics and explore ways to contribute to a more just and equitable society.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The influence of historical trauma on contemporary politics
- The damaging effects of the two-party system on American society
- Confronting and dismantling systemic white supremacist ideologies
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Mark Charles
- Check out his book co-authored with Soong-Chan Rah, Unsettling Truths
- Check out Rachel MacNair’s book, Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson and Christine Pelliccio
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
For many Christians, disillusionment with the church has become more common as a result of institutional distrust and trauma. But internal confusion can also present people with an opportunity for self-examination and contemplation.
In this episode, renowned theologian and ethicist Russell Moore joins Kaitlyn Schiess to discuss the essential work of self-reflection, accountability, and honesty in the face of cynicism. Through prayer, Scripture reading, and engagement in community, Moore encourages listeners to grow from the positive aspects of processing disillusionment.
What can it mean to be sober-minded, hopeful, and discerning in institutional or political spaces come 2024? Moore suggests that reckoning together with the uncertainty of what lies ahead may be a communal starting place for the church.
Tune in to be challenged by this week’s theme: that personal, internal repair must precede external progress.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Processing betrayal, cynicism, and wisdom
- Observing and learning from both positive and negative role models
- Discerning a faithful attitude for the 2024 election season
Links from this episode:
- Listen to The Russell Moore Show
- Follow Russell Moore on Instagram
- Read Russell's book, Losing Our Religion
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistants: Isis Toldson and Christine Pelliccio
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
How do the intertwining threads of love and justice weave a powerful narrative of transformation within the fabric of communities?
In this episode, host Kaitlyn Schiess engages in a thoughtful conversation with guest Amy Williams, who has worked in gang intervention and restorative justice for over 29 years.
Together, they explore practical avenues through which Christians can actively contribute to the restoration and flourishing of their neighborhoods, viewing the process through the lenses of love and justice.
Williams emphasizes the importance of walking alongside the community rather than attempting to lead from a distance. Her lived experience reveals that by immersing herself in the daily life of her neighborhood and embodying love, she has become a vessel for infusing hope into countless lives, particularly those of the incarcerated youth.
Her story highlights the importance of doing internal work to sustainably serve others. Williams has had to identify and address unhealthy leadership patterns, seeking support through community, prayer, and mentors, all of which contribute to her continued impact on lives.
Williams' experience also shows that churches can't just come with pre-packaged programs. Understanding the communities - their assets and needs - becomes imperative. Consistency and presence within these communities are foundational in establishing trust for partnership; it's not about one-time events, but continual engagement and support.
Tune in to hear more of Williams' wisdom on dealing with failure, mentoring the next generation, and allowing God's plans to prevail.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- Trusting God for ministry outcomes
- Cultivating healthy leadership by recognizing human limitations
- Highlighting community voices in the process of seeking solutions
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Amy Williams
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
When most people hear the word "politics," their minds immediately go to partisan battles, ideological divisions, and the dysfunction of 24-hour news cycles.
This episode challenges the conventional notion of politics. Instead of focusing solely on partisan battles, ideological divides, and the often chaotic media cycle, it explores a more profound perspective with guest Luke Bretherton, a professor at Duke University and an expert in moral and political theology.
Bretherton wants listeners to see politics as something that's a part of human nature, not just about political parties or policies. Everyone engages in politics in some way as social beings, and it's up to them whether they do so constructively or destructively. The question is whether people will form common life respectfully through relationships of give-and-take, or take destructive paths that undermine their ability to live together in diversity.
Join host Kaitlyn Schiess and Luke Bretherton in this episode as they present an inspiring vision of how faith and citizenship can become unifying forces rather than divisive ones, grounded in the virtues of understanding and respecting others.
This episode highlights the following themes:
- The theological meaning of politics and Christian nationalism
- Expressing Christian beliefs in a pluralistic society
- Founding community through relationships, not nationalism
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Luke Bretherton
- Check out Bretherton’s book, “A Primer in Christian Ethics”
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Cultivating neighborliness may not seem to have much long-term impact, but its capacity to bridge diverse communities and ignite lasting connections demonstrates that it can actually have profound and far-reaching effects on our society.
In this episode, host Kaitlyn Schiess engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Shannan Martin about her remarkable journey of cultivating neighborliness in her community through the twin pillars of civic engagement and nurturing relationships.
Throughout the conversation, Martin not only redefines what true hospitality can look like in the midst of busy family life, no matter one’s temperament and personality, but she also makes the case that a key way to love one’s neighbors is to get involved in local politics.
Her journey is a testament to the idea that meaningful change begins at the grassroots level, reminding us that each one of us has the potential to make a life-changing, kingdom-building impact right where we live.
We invite you to tune in to this enlightening conversation and discover how you can play a part in loving your neighbors in unexpected ways that you may never have before considered.
In this episode, we highlight the following themes:
- Practical ways to get involved in the community and build neighborliness
- Building relationships across differences
- Engaging locally to influence outcomes
Link from this episode:
- Get to know more about Shannan Martin
Check out Martin’s book:
- Start with Hello
- Falling Free
- The Ministry of Ordinary Places
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
American evangelicalism, at the intersection of faith and politics, has been a focal point of public discourse for decades. From presidential elections to heated policy debates, evangelicals have significantly influenced the nation's political landscape.
While faith often motivates individuals to seek positive change, it can also become entangled in complex challenges, leading to what many describe as political dysfunction.
In this episode, host Kaitlyn Schiess delves into this complex dynamic in a conversation with Walter Kim, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals.
Schiess and Kim discuss the challenges of defining what it means to be an evangelical and how the inherent differences of those who identify as such can lead to misunderstandings. They also tackle the larger societal issues at play, such as the mix of power, sin, and differences, which can create the perfect storm for political dysfunction. The historic and philosophical complexities of religion and society in America further compound the problem, made even more complex by the growing diversity in the US.
Kim shares his wisdom on navigating these turbulent waters, emphasizing the importance of expanding our capacity for love, listening, and understanding. He encourages us to break bread with both those we agree with and those we might perceive as enemies. Following Jesus' example, Kim explains how this approach can transform our character and our witness as followers of Christ.
If you're looking to better understand the challenges of American evangelicalism's engagement with politics and how to respond with grace, this episode is a must-listen.
In this episode, we highlight the following themes:
- Causes of political dysfunction in American evangelicalism
- The role of evangelicals in political dynamics
- Insights into the traditions that influence evangelical thought
Links from this episode:
- Get to know more about Walter Kim
- Learn about the National Association of Evangelicals
- Read Walter’s article, “Biblical Faith for Our Common Life in Complex Times”
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
We live in a polarized world where conversations, particularly political ones, have evolved into a battlefield of words, frequently leaving emotional scars.
These discussions are no longer just about perspectives and opinions but deeply rooted emotions and personal experiences.
But have we ever paused to reflect on the connection between our emotional reactions, our bodily responses, and these complex dialogues?
In this episode, host Kaitlyn Schiess explored this topic with therapist and author Aundi Kolber. With her deep knowledge in trauma and body-centered therapies, Kolber brilliantly combines faith and psychology, providing a fresh lens to view our reactions during challenging discussions.
Having undergone traumatic experiences herself, Kolber's insights come from a place of genuine understanding and empathy.
To delve deeper into this topic and prepare ourselves for the tumultuous election season, tune into the full episode. You’ll be encouraged to create spaces where you can voice thoughts, listen with empathy, and uphold boundaries, all while remaining attuned to your emotions and bodies. It's more than just a political discussion; it's about forging human connections in an often disjointed world.
In this episode, we highlight the following themes:
- The impact of beliefs about created matter on our emotions and bodies
- Building up a tolerance for feeling and experiencing emotions
- Navigating political conversations with emotional awareness
Links from this episode:
- Know more about Aundi Kolber: https://aundikolber.com
- Check out Aundi’s books: Try Softer and Strong like Water
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Other links
✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Although there are notable examples of evangelical churches with overt ties to political leaders and leanings, many churches take a more ambivalent posture. Many pastors are loathe to even mention politics or political issues from the pulpit. But perhaps they can learn from the example of Black church leaders. As this week’s guest Tyler Burns explains, in the Black church a pastor's role often extends far beyond the walls of the church. They are not solely spiritual leaders but can also exert significant influence within their communities, especially in the realm of politics.
Burns is a dedicated pastor and advocate for community engagement and political involvement. With host Kaitlyn Schiess, they centered on the multifaceted responsibilities and opportunities for pastors when it comes to community and politics, and how Christians in the majority culture can learn from the experiences of often-marginalized voices in the church.
In a society marked by short-lived, emotional change, Burns encouraged pastors and ministry leaders to prioritize deep, transformative soul work. This approach involves going deep within oneself to understand the origins of anger and frustration and to engage with the community before speaking loudly on important issues.
To learn more, to tune in and discover the valuable perspective and insights that Burns and Schiess shared.
In this episode, we highlight the following themes:
- The importance of pastors engaging with their community and being political
- Debunking the popular narrative about charismatic churches and their political affiliations
- Acknowledging the role of grief, recognizing mistakes, and taking responsibility for complicity.
Links from this episode:
- Know more about Tyler Burns: https://chasingjustice.com/tyler-burns
- Listen to Tyler’s podcast: https://chasingjustice.com/podcasts
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
Books to add to your reading list:
- Reading While Black by Esau McCaulley
- Thinking in Tongues by James K.A. Smith
Other links
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Maila Kim, Helen Lee, Travis Albritton, and Andrew Bronson
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
With another election season approaching, how can Christians navigate the challenging political landscape without losing their souls?
In this season, we’ll dive deep into the topic of engaging in politics while remaining spiritually grounded and relationally connected.
I'm your new host, Kaitlyn Schiess, and together, we'll embark on a journey of thought-provoking conversations with a diverse range of experts and individuals who bring invaluable firsthand experiences from the world of politics.
Our esteemed guests include Pastor Tyler Burns, therapist Aundi Kolber, and theologian Luke Bretherton, among others.
Plus, we'll hear from some people who've been in the political trenches themselves, like Michael Wear, the president of the Center for Christianity and Public Life, and Shannan Martin, a current candidate for City Council in Goshen, Indiana.
Through their stories and insights, we'll be inspired and equipped to navigate the challenges of representing Christ faithfully in our public lives.
So, make sure to subscribe to "The Disrupters" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the IVP YouTube channel, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our first episode with Tyler Burns drops on October 16, so mark your calendars.
Let's shake things up and have some real talk about faith, politics, and personal growth.
In this episode, we highlight the following themes:
- The challenges of engaging in politics as a Christian
- Kaitlyn’s background in political theology and books authored
- Preview of topics and guests for the season
For its fifth season, hosted by Kaitlyn Schiess, The Disrupters podcast from IVP asks the question, "What does it mean to disrupt ourselves?" Join Kaitlyn as she explores the ways that Christians can prepare themselves—spiritually, emotionally, and relationally—to faithfully disrupt the church and the world. Pastors, scholars, activists, and therapists share their own experiences of formation and transformation to educate and inspire listeners who seek lasting change, both within themselves and in their communities.
✅ Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.
✅ Producers: Andrew Bronson, Maila Kim, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton
✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts
✅ Social Media Manager: Allie Noble
✅ Production Assistant: Isis Toldson
✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard
✅ Theme Song: "People" by Lightmuzik
==== Time Stamps ====
00:00 - Introduction
00:29 - Kaitlyn Schiess's background and interest in politics
01:30 - Preparing for an election season holistically
02:01 - Guests and interviews in upcoming episodes
02:28 - Episode subscription information
02:39 - First episode with Tyler Burns on October 16
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
We've got some exciting news to share—we’re introducing a new voice and a fresh perspective to season 5. Welcome to the next host of The Disrupters, Kaitlyn Schiess!
Before we jump headfirst into all the exciting things this season has in store, let's take a moment to reflect on our journey so far. We deeply appreciate the work of our former host of seasons 3 and 4, Nancy Wang Yuen, who enriched The Disrupters with her unique perspective and thought-provoking conversations. In this transition episode, Nancy officially hands the baton to Kaitlyn, and they offer a sneak peek into what to expect from season 5.
Continuing the hallmark theme of disruption that characterizes The Disrupters, this season we are approaching the theme by asking how people of faith are to pursue disruption of themselves in order for the church, world, and culture to change for better. Through the shared insights of Kaitlyn and her guests, we'll be peeling back layers to uncover the underlying factors within ourselves that contribute to political dysfunction and cultural shifts.
So, mark your calendars for October 16, 2023 and get ready to embark on this new chapter of The Disrupters. Engage with us, challenge us, and let's continue our tradition of compelling conversations and disruptions that lead to a greater flourishing.
In this episode, we highlight the following themes:
- The future of The Disrupters and what Season 5 holds
- Kaitlyn’s expectations and aspirations for the new season
- Nancy's journey with The Disrupters and reflections on her time as host
About the Host:
Kaitlyn Schiess is a writer, author, and doctoral student enrolled at Duke Divinity School, where she is pursuing studies in political theology, ethics, and biblical interpretation. She attained her ThM in systematic theology from Dallas Theological Seminary in the year 2021. One of her notable works is The Liturgy of Politics: Spiritual Formation for the Sake of Our Neighbor, (InterVarsity Press, September 2020). Her writings on theology, politics, and culture have been featured in various publications, including Christianity Today, The New York Times, Christ and Pop Culture, CT Women, RELEVANT, Sojourners, Fathom, and the Christian Research Journal.
==== Time Stamps ====
00:00 - Introduction
00:33 - Nancy's Reflections and Handoff
01:40 - Nancy's podcasting approach & thoughts on Kaitlyn
03:56 - What to expect in season 5
06:07 - Continuity and evolution of The Disrupters podcast
Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
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For the next four episodes, Nancy Wang Yuen is joined by co-host, New York Times bestselling author and historian Jemar Tisby for a miniseries exploring the Christmas season through the lenses of race, gender, and class. They examine some of the implicit and explicit messages that permeate Christian Christmas culture and that we often enjoy and consume indiscriminately. In part 1 of this series, our hosts discuss the reasons for doing a series like this at all and also share about their own personal experiences with Christmas through their unique perspectives as Christians of color for whom the phrase “white Christmas” has a completely different connotation. You will learn, you will laugh, and you will never see the Christmas season in the same way again. Join us in dreaming of a not-white Christmas this year!
The Disrupters: I’m Dreaming of a Not-White Christmas is hosted by Drs. Jemar Tisby and Nancy Wang Yuen. Mixed and edited by Matt Linder Producers: Richard Clark and Maila Kim Executive Producers: Andrew Bronson and Helen Lee
Michael Chang is a legendary tennis player, primarily known for his improbable 1989 victory as a teenager at the French Open, among his many successes. But for Chang, that is not his primary legacy. “I've never thought of tennis as just being tennis,” says Chang. “I've always positioned it as a way to touch lives, to share my faith, to inspire young people…young Asian athletes in particular.” It’s a perspective that has helped Chang see his sports career, however successful it has been, in the proper light: “Whether I was winning, whether I was losing, whether it was a very, very close match, the perspective of knowing that this doesn't change who I am or how I'm loved was a great comfort for me.” As the only Asian American male player to hoist a major tennis championship trophy, Chang provided a joyous moment for people of color and especially Asian American fans during a time of tennis’s heyday in the era of white American tennis stars such as Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi. As a Christian on tour, Chang never shied away from naming his faith as a core piece of his identity. Decades later, his fans still remember how much of a disruption he was to the sport, long before the Williams sisters and Naomi Osaka became household names. Enjoy this conversation with Michael Chang, who still holds the record as the youngest man to ever win a major tennis championship. Disruptions discussed in this episode:
30 for 30 Documentary “American Son” Announcement
Michael Chang vs Ivan Lendl - 1989 French Open
Beyond Colorblind: Redeeming Our Ethnic Journey
“Let's come together to end the hate,” essay by Michael Chang
The Disrupters is hosted by Nancy Wang Yuen. Theme song is New Eyes by Jason Chu. Mixed and Edited by Matt Linder Producers: Richard Clark and Maila Kim Executive Producers: Andrew Bronson and Helen Lee
It can be exhausting to fight injustice. But for those who are marginalized, it can be traumatizing. And especially when that injustice is around every corner, it can often seem impossible to heal in the face of it. But according to educator and activist Dr. Christina Edmonson, healing is a gift that has already been given: “For believers, healing is one of our blood-bought rights. It is something that has been given to us to do this. It has been won for us in the resurrection.” If that’s true, what can the marginalized believer do to experience that kind of healing in their reality? This week, Nancy Wang Yuen and Dr. Christina Edmondson discuss the tangled knot of what it means, and what it takes, to truly heal from racial trauma.
Disruptions discussed in this episode:
Faithful Antiracism: Moving Past Talk to Systemic Change by Christina Edmondson and Chad Brennan
Truth's Table: Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation by Christina Edmondson, Ekemini Uwan, and Michelle Higgins.
Healing Racial Trauma by Sheila Wise Rowe
The Witness’ #LeaveLOUD Campaign
Truth’s Table Podcast
Get in the Word with Truth’s Table
The Disrupters is hosted by Nancy Wang Yuen. Theme song is New Eyes by Jason Chu. Producers: Richard Clark and Maila Kim, mixed and edited by Matt Linder Executive Producers: Andrew Bronson and Helen Lee
If you’re listening to this podcast, you’ve probably left, or considered leaving evangelicalism. But what does it mean to leave evangelicalism, and what is evangelicalism anyway? In today’s episode, Nancy speaks to reporter Jon Ward about the disparity between what the evangelical movement’s aspirational ideas and the current reality of the evangelical movement at work in the world. “A lot of evangelicalism is a cultural project, which presents itself as a theological project,” says Ward. “There's a disconnect between the faith and the principles of the faith, and how to apply them broadly,” So what does that mean for those of us who aren’t exactly feeling the “cultural project” of evangelicalism? And how do we focus on moving forward rather than merely looking back? Nancy and Jon bring their unique perspectives to a complex topic in this week’s episode of The Disrupters. Disruptions discussed in this episode:
Jon Ward’s upcoming book, Testimony: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Failed a Generation
Interview about the Greg Thompson/Duke Kwon book, Reparations
The Evangelicals: The Struggle to Shape America
“Shame” by Jake Meador
The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby
Culture Care by Makoto Fujimura
The Disrupters is hosted by Nancy Wang Yuen. Theme song is New Eyes by Jason Chu. Producers: Richard Clark, Matthew Linder, and Maila Kim Executive Producers: Andrew Bronson and Helen Lee
Back in early 2020, on the first season of The Disrupters, Jemar Tisby told then-host Esau McCaulley that a person of color’s participation in historically white Christian spaces inherently come with a cost: “You get pushed out, you burn out, or you sell out.” For McCaulley, this was a challenge to his own approach, as a black Christian who was a professor in a white-Christian institution: “This podcast is a record in time, and this is a hypothesis.” Said McCaulley at the time. “Let’s follow God in this way, and then let’s check back in 5-10 years and see what God has done with both. Hopefully, he’s blessed both.” It hasn’t yet been five years, but for both Tisby and host Nancy Wang Yuen, the writing is on the wall. White Christian institutions have not created spaces where they can thrive. But what does that mean for the way forward? For Tisby, a key component of moving forward involves telling his own story in as truthful a way he can. “What I realized over time is if we don't tell our stories, then they can continue the really unhealthy, traumatic, abusive behavior. In some cases, the malpractice is allowed to continue.” Jemar Tisby is a New York Times bestselling author, national speaker, and public historian on a mission to deliver truths from the Black experience with depth and clarity.
Disruptions discussed in this episode: An Open Letter to the Board of Trustees at Grove City College White Awake by Daniel Hill Those Meddling Kids Pass the Mic Truth’s Table: The Podcast and The Book Truth's Table: Get In the Word Podcast Tyler Burns’ Sermons at All Nations Fellowship Jesus and the Disinherited by Howard Thurman Let us Google that for you. Amanda Gorman Reads Inaugural Poem, The Hill We Climb
The Disrupters is hosted by Nancy Wang Yuen. Theme song is New Eyes by Jason Chu. Executive Producers are Helen Lee and Andrew Bronson.
Nancy Wang Yuen is back for Season 4, and this season, she’s going to spill some tea. Join us on Monday, October 31 for the first in a series of conversations about how to heal and move on from the toxic religious institutions and movements that many of us have been a part of for years.
We're back, with a bonus Oscars episode of The Disrupters. Nancy talks to Rebecca Sun, the senior editor of diversity and inclusion at the Hollywood Reporter to discuss the various nominees, the lack of a dominant Oscars narrative, the confounding nature of Drive My Car, and the upcoming Pachinko TV series.
"I think it fundamentally comes back to, we want to win. We want to be told we're right. And we don't want to be put in a position where we're being called to lay down our lives for our friends and neighbors." Mike Cosper is perhaps best known for his breakthrough podcast, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. The podcast experienced crossover success, rising up the mainstream podcast charts and being listened to by Christians and non-Christians alike. Having finished the series, Mike has clear eyes about the failures of the white evangelical church, and while race may not have been a major factor in the original podcast, he sees a direct line from white evangelicalism's struggle against racial justice to the kinds of attitudes that lead to the titular disaster of his podcast. In this episode, we ask Mike Cosper why people of color stayed away from churches like Mars Hill, and explore the deeper reasons for the vitriol they're experiencing now. Learn more about The Disrupters podcast at ivpress.com/disrupters. Plus, listeners of The Disrupters podcast will get 30% off all IVP titles plus free US shipping by using promo code DISRUPT at ivpress.com.
As we exist in this life, in what ways can we make this world a better place? The simplicity and depth of this question exemplifies who Nick Cho is. As “Your Korean Dad” on TikTok, with over 3 million followers, Nick speaks gently and directly to viewers in his less than a minute-long videos. Each one is characterized by fatherly care, authenticity and whimsy. Nick takes us to buy snacks at Walgreens. He makes coffee for us while we do homework. He also addresses Transracial adoptees, acknowledging their struggles and telling them “I see you.” Some have dubbed him a modern-day Mr. Rogers. In this episode, we talk to Cho about how church life has formed him and why he walked away. Learn more about The Disrupters podcast at ivpress.com/disrupters. Plus, listeners of The Disrupters podcast will get 30% off all IVP titles plus free US shipping by using promo code DISRUPT at ivpress.com.
“I find that my journey as an Asian-American parallels my journey of faith as well this is where it intersects.” -Phil Yu “I don’t think I can talk about being Asian-American really without talking about the communities of faith that have fed that identity.” -Jeff Yang Phil Yu and Jeff Yang are the godfathers of Asian American pop culture and men of faith. On this episode of The Disrupters, we talk about how the two identities intersect when it comes to community and continual investment. Learn more about The Disrupters podcast at ivpress.com/disrupters. Plus, listeners of The Disrupters podcast will get 30% off all IVP titles plus free US shipping by using promo code DISRUPT at ivpress.com.
“When you take a story as beautiful as the Gospel of loving sacrifice, of a man who would heal the sick, care for the poor, bound up the brokenhearted, and you begin to force that belief in institutional settings, it destroys that message.” Terry Wildman understood what he was up against when he took the lead in a new Native-centered translation of the Bible: “If we can separate Jesus from the colonial baggage…then our Native people can take a real honest look at this holy man.” Addressing how words like “sin” were once used to oppress Native peoples, Terry Wildman explains how the First Nations Version of the New Testament gets back to the heart of Creator’s message of love. Learn more about The Disrupters podcast at ivpress.com/disrupters. Plus, listeners of The Disrupters podcast will get 30% off all IVP titles plus free US shipping by using promo code DISRUPT at ivpress.com.
“I’ll be honest, my initial reaction to seeing an email that said ‘Audition for role of Nikki, Kung Fu,’ was like, 'Really? Haven’t we gone past this? Aren’t we done with the trope of the Asian doing martial arts?'” When Olivia first saw the audition email for the reboot of Kung Fu, the once popular 1970s TV starring David Carradine, she was not impressed. Olivia Liang is an actor and director with no interest in playing a stereotype, even going so far as to set a personal boundary for herself not to learn martial arts unless she was actively paid to do so. When she was cast as the star of Kung Fu, that's precisely what happened. After becoming more acquainted with the reboot project, she said she got “really excited” that Kung Fu was “going to celebrate…martial arts, which is so near and dear to our culture” and the Chinese Americans “get to be fully formed characters.” For Olivia Liang, this role was a fulfillment of God’s “calling.” Listen as she describes how she wants to be a light in Hollywood through story-telling and “just loving on people.” Learn more about The Disrupters podcast at ivpress.com/disrupters. Plus, listeners of The Disrupters podcast will get 30% off all IVP titles plus free US shipping by using promo code DISRUPT at ivpress.com.
"I started to create what I call a 'let-go list,' trying to figure out as I evolve as a person, as a community leader, and as a co-leader in my family, really taking an evaluation and assessing the things I need to shed and let go as I create the type of space to give myself and my life to things that matter most in the moment." Terence Lester is a speaker, activist, author, and thought leader in the realm of systemic poverty. He is the founder of Love Beyond Walls, a non-profit organization focused on poverty awareness and community mobilization. His nationwide campaigns have been featured on MLK50, CNN, Good Morning America, USA Today just to name a few. According to Terence, by reorganizing our time and getting into communities with others (even if it’s just one trusted person!), we can all show up and make a difference in the world--whether it’s “30 minutes a week or an hour every other week.” If “1000 people” can give “an hour of time,” Terence believes that the “compounded collective impact can make a huge difference.” Listen to this inspirational conversation as you make your New Year’s resolutions.
Learn more about The Disrupters podcast at ivpress.com/disrupters. Plus, listeners of The Disrupters podcast will get 30% off all IVP titles plus free US shipping by using promo code DISRUPT at ivpress.com.
“I always say there’s three strands in my life. There’s racial identity, there’s hip hop culture, and there’s religion. And all three are actually synonymous to me.” Jason Chu is a rapper and activist, speaking hope and healing to a broken world. His music has been heard on Warrior (HBO Max), Snowpiercer (TNT), and Wu Assassins (Netflix). He has shared poetry at the Obama White House, been featured in the Chinese American Museum of Los Angeles, and presented at the Getty Center. He has been named one of two 2022 “Artists At Work” by the Japanese American National Museum and Advancing Justice-LA. In this episode, Jason and Nancy chat about how to bring together disparate parts of ourselves in synergistic ways. “Without Jesus, I don’t know who I am as an Asian American. Without hip hop, I don’t know the God that I know. Without being Asian American, I don’t make hip hop music because I don’t got an identity, I don’t got a community.”
“I don't like to be binary. But if you said 'you have to divide believers into two categories: fear-based or love-based...' I’m with team love.”
Min Jin Lee grew up in the church with a grandfather who was a Presbyterian minister. Her novel Pachinko (2017) was a finalist for the National Book Award for Fiction, and a New York Times 10 Best Books of 2017. Min is a recipient of fellowships in Fiction from the Guggenheim Foundation (2018) and the Radcliffe Institute of Advanced Study at Harvard (2018-2019). She is a Writer-in-Residence at Amherst College (2019-2022). In 2018, Min had the unique honor of being a Double Jeopardy clue in the “Literary Types” category.
And yet, even with all of her accolades, she feels “it’s nothing compared to feeling that you’re a loved and accepted child of God.” It's a feeling she's known much of her life: "Even when I was very little and awkward and bullied, I really felt like I was a child of God. I still do."
“I’m gonna stop suppressing myself … and lying to myself, or at least lying to you for the sake of peace and reconciliation. At this point, I’m just gonna need to be real.” Mental Health Expert Dr. Peace Amadi, PsyD, is a Professor, Speaker, Coach, and TV Host. She is also the author of Why Do I Feel Like This? Understand Your Difficult Emotions and Find Grace to Move Through which hit #1 on Amazon’s New Releases in Mental Health during its launch. She merges clinical insight and faith to encourage readers to listen to the hidden messages of their emotions. According to Amadi, she's seen firsthand that this isn't something that comes naturally to many in the church. Through the use of “spiritual platitudes” like “just let go and Let God,” “just forgive,” and “just don’t worry about it,” many in the church are “cutting off our ability to get exactly what we need in that moment; we literally cannot heal when we bypass our emotions.” In this episode, Peace shares wisdom on how to keep it real with our feelings and one another.
"Ultimately, my career could go up, it could go down. But, it doesn't necessarily have any bearing with what's actually important in life." Gene Luen Yang has been making comics and graphic novels since the fifth grade, and by any measure, he's been a massive success. He wrote and drew ‘American Born Chinese,’ the first graphic novel to be nominated for a national book award, now slated for adaptation as a live-action Disney+ series. He writes for DC and Marvel and he’s won the McArthur Genius Award. It would be hard to argue with the success Yang has been experiencing. And yet, Gene says, "There was, at times, happiness about stuff, but it always felt like it was muted or limited." While some of his humble tendencies are cultural, in a very real sense they're also deeply rooted in faith. In this episode of The Disrupters, Yang explores how his upbringing and his faith give him perspective.
Esau McCaulley discusses the new season of The Disrupters, coming December 2nd, with our new host, Nancy Wang Yuen, sociologist, pop culture expert and a professor at Biola University.
"I've always had this radical approach to engaging lost people." Apologist Lisa Fields is the founder of the Jude 3 Project, a ministry dedicated to helping Christians know what they believe and why they believe it. From growing up in the black church to attending seminary, Lisa has learned to engage in the hard questions for the sake of the Gospel. In this last episode of season 2 of the Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and Lisa Fields discuss today's faith doubts and questions, disruption in academic spaces, and the state of evangelism in our current cultural climate.
Co-founder of Christ and Pop Culture Alan Noble believes deeply in the importance of learning how to interact and engage with the culture around us. "We need to talk. We need to have strong communities. We need to have these kind of conversations." Between imperfect mediums and political conflict, Noble explains how distortion and division often run rampant. In this episode of the Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and Alan noble talk truth and technology, postmodern attitudes, and the theologies of power that dominate the church today. Learn more with Noble's book Disruptive Witness: Speaking Truth in a Distracted Age.
We're taking a break this week, but in the meantime, we thought we'd share some of our favorite episodes of The Disrupters and look back on what they meant to us.
"I've honestly learned that nobody is owed the sound of my voice." As the daughter of someone with a significant presence in evangelical circles, author and teacher Jasmine Holmes is familiar with assumptions made about who she is—but she doesn't fit into a mold. In this episode of the Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and Jasmine Holmes dive into stereotypes of race and political ideologies, black womanhood, and the fearless pursuit of God's unique callings on our lives. Get a copy of her book Mother to Son: Letters to a Black Boy on Identity and Hope now.
From fighting stereotypes to redefining isolating spaces, Asian American author Chandra Crane is an expert at disruption. But that doesn't mean it's easy—coming from a multiethnic and multicultural background, she's had to work to complicate oversimplified conversations. "It's actually a blessing to complicate things...It breaks up this conversation which assumes that everybody is either completely privileged or completely oppressed. So I think it pushes back on that and reminds us that we all have pain that needs to be healed and needs to be cared for." In this episode of the Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and Chandra Crane discuss multiethnic identity formation, overlooked stories, and helping to build bridges—without becoming one.
Crane's book Mixed Blessing: Embracing the Fullness of Your Multiethnic Identity is out December 15, available for preorder now.
"There's no end to my learning and growing." From missionary kid in Venezuela to pastor in Chicago, David Swanson's eyes were gradually opened to injustice in his communities. As the white pastor of New Community Covenant Church on the South Side of the city and author of Rediscipling the White Church: From Cheap Diversity to True Solidarity, Swanson has humbly plunged into the multiracial spaces God has called him to. While it would be easy wash his hands of the tension, pain, and criticism that comes with the work of racial reconciliation, he won't: "What do I want to go back to majority white spaces for? What would I want to go be deeply embedded in white evangelicalism for? It's nowhere nearly as good as this is!" In this episode of the Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and David Swanson discuss the tough work and incredible blessings behind shepherding a church body in a multiracial community.
"I was already an extremely empathetic person, but this took it to a new level." Since writer and activist Taylor Schumann, author of forthcoming title ‘When Thoughts and Prayers Aren’t Enough: A Shooting Survivor’s Journey into the Realities of Gun Violence,’ was shot as a social worker in 2013 during a school shooting, she's had to stand up for herself and others who find themselves victims of gun violence. Coming from conservative small-town Virginia, it wasn't easy to become an activist for gun reform—but for Schumann, it's all about her faith. "For me, being more like Jesus is opposing things that are not in line with his vision for us as people on earth—and I cannot picture Jesus walking on the earth carrying an AR-15 down the street." In this episode of the Disrupters, Taylor Schumann and Esau McCaulley discuss the continuing trauma, difficult church spaces, and racial tensions surrounding gun violence.
16th century priest Antonio de Montesinos once said to a group of American Christians: “God gave you the opportunity to share about Jesus and love, and instead you are exploiting it for greed. If you don’t repent, God’s gonna send you to hell.” This is the first social justice sermon preached in the Americas, one that inspired Robert Romero, author of The Brown Church's, own personal mission. Romero uses his voice to educate people on the history of the Brown Church and the role it has played in the most pivotal moments throughout history. Consistently a voice for the voiceless and a home for the homeless, the Brown Church has much to teach us, if only we would listen.
"Sometimes, you don't think about whether you're going to say something. You know you have to." In 2016, Beth Moore found herself struggling to reconcile the gospel with the church's reaction to a political sea change. "All at the same time, I am watching nationalism, I am watching sexism, and I'm watching racism." "It was like we were being blown back decades. We never made the ground that we needed to make. But I saw us going in reverse instead of making any advancement whatsoever in the gospel role of justice." Beth Moore doesn't write brazen, disruptive books about social issues. Her life's purpose is to study the Bible, and to share the insight and unadulterated joy that comes from God's word. Her latest Bible Study, "Now That Faith Has Come," is a simple, unassuming study of the book of Galatians. But if you wanted her to tip-toe around prominent, controversial social issues, you'd be sorely disappointed. While Moore did little more than speak what she believed the Bible had to say to the American church, that message suddenly became perceived as disruptive to her brothers and sisters in Christ. In this episode of The Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and Beth Moore discuss their shared experiences in the American Church, the ways they've dealt with feedback, and the unmatched clarity they find in the Word of God.
Justin Giboney is fundamentally invested social justice. But he doesn't have to prove that to you. For people who are serious about their Christian faith, there's a stereotype of the political issues that they might be called to address. Justin cares about religious liberty and the sanctity of life. But he also cares about the immigrant, the poor, police reform, and all these other things. Through the AND Campaign, Justin is intentional about how he uses his voice. He asks, "What is the most fruitful way to engage in the work for justice in our society?" He's more concerned about speaking for those that don't have a voice than he is about making his voice heard. Justin Giboney is one of the founders of the And Campaign, and one of the authors of Compassion (&) Conviction: The AND Campaign's Guide to Faithful Civic Engagement.
Lecrae, Grammy award-winning rapper is used to people trying to box him in—as if they could box in a man who lives to tell the truth. In this episode of The Disrupters, Esau McCaulley and Lecrae discuss what it takes to break out of a predetermined box, the backlash the hip-hop artist faced for speaking out about the black experience in Evangelicalism, and his perspective on what it means to deconstruct his faith. Lecrae's latest album is Restoration.
The world is different on the other side of a pandemic. The same kinds people who were ignored are now in the center of the conversation. The question is: when people are ready to listen, what do you have to say?
For African American Christians in the evangelical church, cognitive dissonance is a way of life. As African Americans approach cultural change, there’s a long-standing tension between working within mainstream institutions, seeking to provide insight and challenge whenever possible, and then finding their work most effective outside of those institutions. That’s where Jemar Tisby finds himself: “I want to be very careful about where I place my voice.” In this final episode of The Disruptors, a conversation between Esau McCaulley, an African-American professor at a majority white institution, and Jemar Tisby, founder and president of The Witness and author of The Color of Compromise, illuminates the dissonance. More importantly, this conversation clearly demonstrates how this tension serves as an ever-present reminder that the racial struggles we face in the American church flow from historical struggles.
Despite the fact that the protection of those who are sexually exploited and abused in the church is of utmost importance, the issue continues to exist because of its very nature. Uncomfortable and unwilling to engage a topic that demands so much introspection of the church, many turn their gaze elsewhere. Ruth Everhart, author of The #MeToo Reckoning: Facing the Church’s Complicity in Sexual Abuse and Misconduct, wants us to grapple with the reality on the ground and our role in confronting it. We all have a part to play to make the church a safer space for people.
Immigration hasn’t always been as controversial as it is now. In the past, churches seemed to agree that any opportunity to bring the gospel to the foreigner would be welcomed. But in the last several years, Jenny Yang has found herself in the midst of a great transition. So, how has Yang, the Senior Vice President of Advocacy & Policy at World Relief and author of Welcoming the Stranger, coped with the church’s moral whiplash? By focusing on reassessing assumptions. “I'm hopeful despite all of this,” says Yang, “because my sense is that this is perhaps a season that's giving us, as a church, time to reflect on what we really believe about the role of the church, not just in ministry but [also in] political engagement.”
For 25 years, Sheila Wise Rowe has counseled trauma and abuse survivors. Many of Rowe’s counselees struggle under the weight of history. For those who suffer from racial trauma, history is not an abstract concept; it’s re-lived with every racial slight or microaggression. We often choose to remember the good things in our past. We celebrate moments that make us happy, give us purpose, or lift our country up. It can be too easy for those in power to forget the darker moments, like when human beings were exploited for the sake of our country’s best interest. But not everyone has the ability to forget. For Sheila Wise Rowe and those she counsels that memory is in their bones.
Within certain Christian communities, there’s tremendous pressure to fit within a box, to stay within your lane. Jasmine Holmes, a black Christian mother and author of Mother to Son: Letters to a Black Boy on Identity and Hope, has faced that pressure since she was young. But through it all, Jasmine fought to make her faith her own. She learned to embrace her identity without falling into pre-written narratives. And she discovered the deep, genuine joy and pain of motherhood in the face of personal upheaval.
At one point, N.T. Wright found himself standing before a sea change. He was guesting on TV talk shows and publishing bestsellers. All in an effort to address what he saw as a disparity between beliefs about Scripture and what Scripture actually says. Wright has never thought of himself as disruptive, but he admits that others have. He's also happy to disturb the overly comfortable mindset that has come with “shallow readings, which haven’t always been accurate.” “If my work disturbs them,” Wright says, “then Hallelujah.” His willingness to disturb, however, is secondary to his determination to get Scripture right at all costs and to renew an interest in a book that has become stale to many. His scholarship on Paul, in particular, has both ruffled feathers and awakened a new spiritual passion in many.
Growing up, Carmen Joy Imes had no idea she’d one day be in an academic setting, lecturing on Old Testament to rooms full of men. Raised in an environment that was skeptical of women teachers, Imes deviated from expectations when she embraced her roles in both the home and classroom. Carmen Imes’s mastery of the Old Testament more than justifies this incidental rebellion. Her love for the subject is evident, and her familiarity with it is undeniable. While her presence may make some uncomfortable, her unapologetic passion combined with her emphasis on the Old Testament’s place in Christian theology deeply influence her students and their scholarship.
Was it nature or nurture that led Dominique DuBois Gilliard to write Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice that Restores? Probably both. From his years in the historical black church to his personal encounters with police, Gilliard seemed fated to sound the alarm about the issue of mass incarceration. However, he would soon learn that the best way to gain an audience was with steady, measured allusion to what is. Dominique DuBois Gilliard’s goal isn’t to force others to understand the depths of his trauma but rather to ensure no one else has to experience it. And for Gilliard, the only way that happens is through the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Let’s say you’ve written a book about a passion of yours. To you, and everyone else’s surprise, it’s a huge hit. Now, the thing you loved has become a “fad.” What do you do next? Nothing new. For author and anglican priest, Tish Harrison Warren, it’s the unchanging tradition that makes liturgy disruptive. In this conversation Tish and Esau talk about the remarkably life-changing (and life-stabilizing) ways that taking part in liturgical rhythms have saved them from themselves and disrupted the cultural scripts we live in. Because when everything changes, you need something to stay the same.
Sho Baraka, a rapper and creative, came out of a Christian music scene that felt safe at best and restrictive at worst. Sho felt an ever-present evangelical gaze looking over his shoulder, critiquing him and his work. Eventually, Sho decided it wasn’t worth the cost—of his creativity, of his hopes, of himself. But the more Sho poured himself into his work, the more he disrupted his career. His music became too controversial for Christian retail outlets and youth groups playlists. In an attempt to evade the evangelical edit, Sho took on the responsibilities of a traditional record label himself. While personal branding and creative salesmanship may be problematic at times, for Sho, it was the natural, and only, next step. Anyone can be a revolutionary, but you still gotta pay your bills. Visit Sho Baraka’s website at www.barakaology.com. Follow him on Twitter: @AmIshoBaraka. The Disrupters is produced by CT Creative Studio in partnership with InterVarsity Press. The Disrupters is hosted by Esau McCaulley. Visit his website at esaumccaulley.com. Follow him on Twitter: @esaumccaulley.
The gospel led them into disruption. They told the truth, and the truth set the world on edge. This isn't a podcast for cynics or apologists. It's bound to disappoint you. And that's it. That's the pitch. The Disruptors is hosted by Esau McCaulley and features a series of disruptive conversations with Sho Baraka, Tish Harrison Warren, Jemar Tisby, N.T. Wright, Sheila Wise Rowe, Dominique DuBois Gilliard, and more.