Respecting Religion: Recent Episodes
BJC
What's at stake for faith freedom for all in our world today? Join the conversation on religion and the law, including the most significant cases concerning religion and religious liberty at the U.S. Supreme Court. As lawyers and people of faith, BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman think these topics deserve respectful conversation -- something that we don’t always hear in the public square or our social media feeds.
We return for a bonus episode of season 7, as we look to the new Supreme Court term and say farewell to our co-host, Holly Hollman. Before she leaves, Holly joins Amanda to preview two religious liberty cases the court will hear in the next few months. And, after 25 years of filing briefs with BJC, Holly reflects on some of the big moments during her time here as she heads toward a new chapter in life.
What remedies does a person have if their religious freedom rights are violated in a state prison? In our season 7 finale, Amanda and Holly go in-depth on the disappointing Supreme Court decision in Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections – the justices make new law that impacts religious freedom rights and potentially congressional power more broadly. Amanda and Holly also look at ways people are protecting rights in Texas, as the fight continues against mandated Bible readings in public school. Plus, they share a quick rundown of the big Supreme Court decisions in the past two days as justices end this term…and get ready for the next.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): The Supreme Court's final decisions of the term
We discussed the Landor case on two previous episodes:
- What's at stake: S7 Ep01: The Supreme Court in a New Era
- The oral arguments: S7 Ep05: A Religious Freedom Caes Flying Under the Radar
To read BJC's statement after the decision, to see our brief, and to access other resources, visit our website page dedicated to Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections.
Segment 2 (starting at 11:57): Unpacking the Landor decision and dissent
For more reading about Landor:
- Steve Vladek's piece on One First: The Ascension of Westside Mothers
- Liz Reiner Platt's piece in Religion News Service: A Rastafarian's Supreme Court loss shows religious freedom depends on who you are
Segment 3 (starting at 30:37): Taking action – in Texas and beyond
Want to get updates on our work, as well as on the show? Join our email list. You can let us know at the bottom if you are interested in particular topics.
If you're in North Texas, consider joining our coalition in that area. Click here to sign up for their email list.
Learn more about our work combating the problematic reading list in Texas on our website.
Read more in this piece by Sarah Mervosh for The New York Times: Texas Public School Students Will Be Required to Read the Bible
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Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
How is increased immigration enforcement impacting the right to religious freedom? Should some "sensitive" locations be treated differently? Get an update on the twists and turns of this legal issue that has real world consequences for religious freedom, houses of worship, schools, hospitals, and other key places in our community. Holly and Amanda discuss the change in policy from the Trump administration, and they go in-depth on the legal and policy response – including long-term strategies and short-term solutions.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): A new policy that upended everything
Holly wrote about the change in the sensitive locations policy in her column for our magazine in the spring of 2025: Defending churches and other sensitive locations from government intrusion
Amanda mentioned the online tracker of incidents: ProtectSensitiveLocations.org
Segment 2 (starting at 07:59): The legal response
Learn more about the specific immigration cases on the immigration page of BJC's website.
You can also visit the website of the Law, Rights and Religion Project to see their report on immigration and religious liberty.
Baptist News Global shared an update on the lawsuits last week: Sensitive locations lawsuit amended with more concerns
Segment 3 (starting at 26:28): The policy response
BJC supports the Protecting Sensitive Locations Act (H.R.1061 / S.455). Want to ask your members of Congress to support the long-term solution? Use our simple form, and we'll send an email from you!
Amanda mentioned the following two articles:
- From PBS Newshour: Trump's deportation agenda is about to get a $70 billion infusion from Congress (via the Associated Press)
- From The Hill: House sends reconciliation bill funding immigration enforcement to Trump's desk by Sudiksha Kochi
Want special emails about our show? Click here to sign up for our email list! You can also let us know at the bottom of that form if you want updates on immigration and other topics.
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Keep these conversations ad-free with a gift to BJC.
Get caught up on all things court-related as Amanda and Holly run through some big decisions and changes over the past few months, including the multiple decisions in cases about posting the Ten Commandments, the dismissal of a legal challenge to the Johnson Amendment, and the Supreme Court's undermining of section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): A new decision undermining the Voting Rights Act
The BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation released a statement about the decision in Louisiana v. Callais that undermined section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.
Segment 2 (starting at 09:26): Supreme Court updates: Landor wait, Chiles v. Salazar decision, and cert petitions
We discussed the oral arguments in Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections on episode 5 of season 7: A religious freedom case flying under the radar
We talked about Chiles v. Salazar briefly in the season premiere: The Supreme Court in a New Era
Segment 3 (starting at 21:23): Decisions – plural! – in some Ten Commandments cases
BJC released a statement after the decision in Rabbi Nathan v. Alamo Heights, which allowed the state of Texas to require the posting of the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms: First Amendment, pluralism both undermined in decision to uphold Ten Commandments mandate for Texas classrooms
Segment 4 (starting at 35:46): Johnson Amendment update
See BJC's resource page on the Johnson Amendment at BJConline.org/JohnsonAmendment.
Do you want special emails about our show? Click here to sign up for our email list!
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can keep these conversations ad-free with a gift to BJC.
The "Christian nation" rhetoric and spectacle we're seeing is not just bad history – it's having real ramifications for religious freedom for all in our country today. Amanda is back from sabbatical, and she and Holly discuss recent developments, including an increase in anti-Sharia legislation and fear-mongering that goes with it. They fact-check last week's congressional hearing on the topic and share Amanda's testimony.
Plus, Amanda and Holly discuss the recent "Rededicate 250" event on the National Mall, which elevated common myths tied to Christian nationalism. People can gather to pray, and there have been public worship gatherings before – so, what made that event different?
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): Christian nationalism, myths, and "Rededicate 250"
Holly is quoted in this article from Religion News Service by Bob Smietana: A Christian nation? At 250, America is still fighting over what that means
Amanda is quoted in this Washington Post article by Michelle Boorstein, Laura Meckler and Natalie Allison: White House to host 9-hour prayer festival focused on Christian roots of U.S.
Amanda is also quoted in this Wall Street Journal article by By Meridith McGraw and Terell Wright: A 'Revival' on the National Mall: White House Puts Prayer at Center of Washington
Amanda mentioned this wrap-up of the event – which includes some fact-checking – from Religion News Service by Jack Jenkins, Aleja Hertzler-McCain, and Adelle Banks: Trump allies lead thousands in prayer to 'rededicate' America to God on National Mall
You can read Amanda's op-ed in Baptist News Global about the event: When Government Claims God
Segment 2 (starting at 14:45): The latest congressional hearing on anti-Sharia measures
For more on the tragic shooting at the Islamic Center of San Diego, here's a story from the Associated Press by Julie Watson, Michael Biesecker, and John Seewer: San Diego mosque shooters met online and left writings expressing hate, FBI says
BJC released a statement on the shooting, which you can read on our website.
The House Judiciary Subcommittee on Constitution and Limited Government held a hearing on May 13, 2026, titled "Sharia-Free America:Why Political Islam & Sharia Law are Incompatible with the U.S. Constitution: Part II." We played Amanda's opening statement, as well as a portion of the opening statement of Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md.
You can watch the entire hearing and learn more on the website of the House Judiciary Committee.
You can read Amanda's written testimony at this link.
Do you want special emails about our show? Click here to sign up for our email list!
Video of our episodes are on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can keep these conversations ad-free with a gift to BJC.
Amanda is back from sabbatical, and Respecting Religion is returning with all-new episodes on Thursday, May 21. Tune in for analysis of various court decisions impacting religious freedom -- including the mulitple decisions about mandates to post the Ten Commandments. Plus, Holly and Amanda will discuss a disturbing trend in anti-Muslim sentiment and the rise of Christian nationalism tied to celebrations for America's 250th birthday.
Join us on Thursdays for these conversations and more in the coming weeks.
See all episodes of Respecting Religion on our website: BJConline.org/respectingreligion
What do people mean when they say we were founded as a "Christian nation"? Is that true?
Revisit this 2019 conversation on the political and religious history behind that idea. BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler talks with Dr. Steven Green, author of Inventing a Christian America: The Myth of the Religious Founding, about the political history of this concept, including how, when and why it originated. They also discuss misguided claims that the Ten Commandments are the basis of our legal system. On the second half of the episode, we hear from church historian Bill Leonard on what religious leaders said and did during the founding of the United States and how that relates to the freedoms we have today.
This conversation was part of our podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism, first released on August 14, 2019.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 02:22): Steven Green on the political history of the idea
This program originally aired August 14, 2019, as episode 3 in our 10-part BJC Podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism.
Dr. Steven Green is the Fred H. Paulus Professor of Law and Affiliated Professor of History and Religious Studies at Willamette University. His most recent book – released in 2022 – is Separating Church and State. He is the author and co-author of several books, including Inventing a Christian America: The Myth of the Religious Founding; Religious Freedom and the Supreme Court; and The Third Disestablishment: Church, State, and American Culture, 1940-1975.
Segment 2 (starting at 21:18): Bill Leonard on the religious history of the idea
The Rev. Dr. Bill Leonard is the founding dean at the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, who now holds the title of "professor of divinity emeritus." He has written some 25 books, and his research focuses on church history with particular attention to American religion, Baptist studies, and the Appalachian religion.
During the episode, Amanda Tyler mentions an article he wrote for Baptist News Global: Legislating 'In God We Trust': using the state to do the Church's work.
To learn more about BJC's work countering Christian nationalism, visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org or BJConline.org/ChristianNationalism. You can also access our discussion guide to go with this podcast series.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Is the separation of church and state in the Constitution? How does Christian nationalism overlap with white supremacy? Why do we keep seeing so many proposals to post the Ten Commandments? In this wide-ranging conversation from 2024, Amanda Tyler talks about these issues and more as she discusses her book "How to End Christian Nationalism" with the Rev. Dr. Bill Leonard.
"How to End Christian Nationalism" is a vital companion for countering the dangerous ideology, and it is available from your favorite local bookseller.
This conversation was recorded Oct. 29, 2024, and was first released Nov. 7, 2024.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 01:30): Amanda Tyler and Bill Leonard on "How to End Christian Nationalism"
You can order Amanda's book, How to End Christian Nationalism, wherever you get your books. Visit EndChristianNationalism.com for more information.
The Rev. Dr. Bill Leonard is the founding dean at the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, who now holds the title of "professor of divinity emeritus." He has written some 25 books, and his research focuses on church history with particular attention to American religion, Baptist studies, and the Appalachian religion.
You can watch a video recording of this conversation (and entire podcast) on BJC's YouTube channel.
This event was a partnership between Knollwood Baptist Church, First Baptist on Fifth, and Ardmore Baptist Church – all three churches are located in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Christian nationalism was on full display at the ReAwaken America tour, which was a series of conferences that fused Christian language and symbols with conspiracy theories and election denials. Amanda went inside a Miami event in 2023, and she shared her experiences in this podcast – from assembly-line baptisms to the reaction of the crowd as speakers moved seamlessly from religious worship songs to calls for political violence.
This episode originally aired May 18, 2023, and it is our most downloaded show of all time.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 01:18): The Christian nationalism of the ReAwaken America tour
Amanda and Holly discussed the ReAwaken America tour in episode 5 of season 4: Christian nationalism and the midterm elections
This conversation was originally Episode 22 of Season 4.
Amanda and Holly mention this article about the ReAwaken Tour in The New York Times by Michelle Goldberg: Whose Version of Christian Nationalism Will Win in 2024?
Amanda wrote a response to Michael Flynn's call for "one religion" in 2021, published by Baptist News Global: If you're paying attention to Christian nationalism, you won't be shocked by Michael Flynn's call for 'one religion under God'
Segment 2 (starting at 06:08): The Pastors for Trump event
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article on the Pastors for Trump group by Peter Stone for The Guardian: Pro-Trump pastors rebuked for 'overt embrace of white Christian nationalism'
During this segment, we played a clip of Pastor John Bennett speaking during the Pastors for Trump event in Miami.
Segment 3 (starting at 16:14): ReAwaken America, baptisms, and our counter-witness
Amanda and Holly mentioned Brian Kaylor's reporting on the ReAwaken America tour. You can see his twitter thread with clips from Miami and read his piece in the A Public Witness newsletter, which is part of the Word&Way network: Michael Flynn's Soup for the Soulless
For more about Baptism and different ways Christian denominations approach it, check out this story from 2001 by the PBS program Religion and Ethics Newsweekly.
BJC and Faithful America created electronic billboards that were on trucks and a boat in Miami. See the video of the billboards in this post on the @EndChristianNationalism Instagram account.
Visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org to explore the resources provided by the Christians Against Christian Nationalism movement.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A 2022 decision from the Supreme Court continues to sow confusion and misguided claims four years later. Today, we're revisiting our conversation on the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision, where the Court ruled for a public school official and abandoned long-standing Establishment Clause protections in ways that harm the religious freedom rights of students. Hear Amanda and Holly react right after this decision and ponder just what, exactly, would actually constitute "coercion" for this Court. The Supreme Court did not overrule the previous school prayer cases with the decision, but it did gut some of the consensus that protects the religious liberty rights of everyone at public schools.
This conversation was recorded in front of a live audience on June 29, 2022, and was first released July 7, 2022.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 02:57): Not solving a problem, but creating one: Kennedy v. Bremerton decision
You can read the Bremerton opinion here, written by Justice Neil Gorsuch. Justice Sonia Sotomayor's dissenting opinion includes photos of the prayer practice at issue (see pages 9 and 10 of the dissent, which are on pages 49 and 50 of the opinion PDF document).
We released three podcasts on this case:
- We previewed the case in April 2022 in Episode 14 of Season 3 in an episode titled "#NoPrayToPlay."
- We recapped the oral arguments in Episode 15 of that same season: "The coach is the loudspeaker and the field is his classroom: Recapping the arguments in Kennedy v. Bremerton"
- We released this episode as our season 3 finale. The full episode is titled "Not solving a problem, but creating one: Dissecting the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision"
Segment 2 (starting at 26:51): Concluding thoughts
For all of BJC's resources on this case, visit BJConline.org/Bremerton.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What is the cost of speaking out against Christian nationalism? In 2024, Rob Reiner came on the podcast to talk about a film he produced, called "God & Country." In this episode from our archives, Amanda Tyler talks with Reiner and Dan Partland, the director of the film. "God & Country" discusses the dangers of Christian nationalism to the country, to the faith, and to pluralism.
This program originally aired January 18, 2024
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 02:22): Rob Reiner and Dan Partland on Christian nationalism
Released in February 2024, "God & Country" is available to watch on several streaming platforms. You can learn more at GodAndCountryTheMovie.com.
About the guests:
- Dan Partland, the director of the movie, is a veteran documentary producer and director for film and television. His work includes several landmark nonfiction features and series over the past three decades, and he's a two-time Emmy winner for best nonfiction series.
- Rob Reiner was a producer of the film. He first came to fame as a two-time Emmy award winning actor in the landmark television series "All in the Family." He went on to become an acclaimed director of some of the most popular and influential motion pictures in American film history, and he remained a dedicated political activist until his death in 2025.
The exact phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the U.S. Constitution, but the concept is laid out several times, including Article VI's prohibition on any religious test for office, the First Amendment's prohibition of a government establishment of religion, and the First Amendment's guarantee of the free exercise of religion. Read more in Brent Walker's "Top 5 Myths of the Separation of Church and State."
Learn more about the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign – a project BJC began in 2019 – by visiting ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Segment 2 (starting at 20:56): Post-screening Q&A with Partland and Reiner
BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation released a comprehensive report on the role of Christian nationalism in the January 6 attack on the Capitol. You can access it here.
Dan Partland mentioned The Power Worshippers, a book by Katherine Stewart on the rise of religious nationalism. It serves as a basis for the movie.
Segment 3 (starting at 40:39): Closing
Michelle Boorstein covered the screening for The Washington Post in this article: 'God & Country' film spotlights Christian nationalism's threat to democracy
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Is an American flag in a church sanctuary an example of Christian nationalism? What about faith-based advocacy? Helping voters get to the polls? Saying the Constitution is "divinely inspired"? In this conversation from 2024, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman answer some common questions they hear about Christian nationalism, and they talk about the questions we all should be asking ourselves when evaluating the political ideology.
This program originally aired March 21, 2024
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1 (starting at 01:25): What does it mean to determine the level of Christian nationalism?
This podcast episode won the "Best in Class" award from the Religion Communicators Council in 2025. It was first released as episode 21 of season 5 on March 21, 2024.
Learn more about the Christians Against Christian Nationalism movement and how you can get involved at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Segment 2 (starting at 09:09): Answering some political questions about Christian nationalism
Amanda mentioned this op-ed by David French in The New York Times: What is Christian Nationalism, Exactly?
Visit this link to access the report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection from BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Amanda mentioned this article by Steven Monacelli for the Daily Dot: A new social network built on a vision of Christian supremacy in America gains traction with GOP politicians
Hear Amanda and Holly's reaction to President Trump's 2020 appearance at St. John's Church with a Bible in episode 15 of our first season: Protests, the president and the photo op with a Bible
Segment 3 (starting at 29:56): Answering some church-related questions about Christian nationalism
Read about the 2024 survey results from PRRI on the support for Christian nationalism at this link that Amanda mentioned during the podcast. UPDATE for the re-release of this episdoe: PRRI's most recent report on the topic was released in February 2025, which is available at this link.
To learn more about Patriot Churches, read this 2020 article in The Washington Post by Sarah Pulliam Bailey: Seeking power in Jesus' name: Trump sparks a rise of Patriot Churches
Segment 4 (starting at 39:40): History and civics questions about Christian nationalism
Amanda and Holly spoke about some lawmakers sharing the idea that the Constitution is "divinely inspired" in episode 10 of season 4: A report, a prayer vigil, and a somber anniversary: Two years after January 6. It was also re-released as a "best of" episode in January 2026.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment one (02:45): Conversation with Dr. Walter Brueggemann
This program originally aired August 21, 2019, as episode 4 in our 10-part BJC Podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism.
One of the most influential Bible interpreters of our time, Dr. Walter Brueggemann was the author of more than 100 books, including The Prophetic Imagination. He passed away June 5, 2025. Visit his official website to learn more about his work and his legacy.
This was the fourth episode in our 10-part series on Christian nationalism in 2019. Other episodes are available at this link or on the feed called "BJC Podcast" on Apple Podcasts (iTunes), SoundCloud, Spotify, and more.
Amanda mentioned the Easter Monday message she sent in 2025, which quoted Dr. Brueggemann from this episode. Sign up for our email list to get more emails by visiting this link.
To learn more about BJC's work countering Christian nationalism, visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org or BJConline.org/ChristianNationalism.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
How does the myth of America being a "chosen" nation lead to the religious nationalism we see today? In a presentation first aired in 2023, Harvard Divinity School's Dr. Catherine Brekus talks about how the myth is a complicated mixture of arrogance, exploitation, reform, racism and violence. She looks at the roots of this myth, how it has played out through our country's history, and how the recent surge of white Christian nationalism reflects a deep uneasiness about the loss of Christian privilege in this country.
This program originally aired on June 1, 2023, in season 4 of Respecting Religion.
SHOW NOTES
This episode was originally broadcast as episode 23 of season 4 in 2023. To hear the panel presentation that follows, check out episode 24 of season 4.
Segment one (01:39): Presentation from Dr. Catherine Brekus Read more about Dr. Brekus on Harvard Divinity School's website. This presentation was the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, an annual lecture series sponsored by BJC. Dr. Brekus gave this presentation at Old North Church in Boston.
Following her presentation, Dr. Brekus joined a panel discussion alongside The Rt. Rev. Carol Gallagher, Ph.D.; the Rev. Darrell Hamilton; and Dr. Michael Hoberman. It was moderated by the Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley. You can hear their conversation in episode 24.
You can watch the full presentation online at this link, including the panel discussion that followed the talk. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
As Amanda's sabbatical begins, we are revisiting previous episodes of the podcast. This week marked the 5th anniversary of the January 6 attack on the Capitol. In today's episode of Respecting Religion, hear a conversation two years after the attack. Amanda and Holly share their reactions to the report released by the January 6 Select Committee at the end of 2022, including the lack of any mention of Christian nationalism and why that matters. They also discuss the importance of Christian leaders providing an alternative witness in 2023 to the Christian nationalism exhibited during the attack on the Capitol. And, they review how the insurrection still shapes our world and how it – surprisingly – doesn't shape Capitol tours.
This program originally aired on January 12, 2023, in season 4 of Respecting Religion.
SHOW NOTES
This episode was originally broadcast as episode 10 of season 4 in 2023. For another conversation about January 6 and Christian nationalism, check out S3, Ep. 12 from 2022.
Segment 1 (starting at 01:06): The Select Committee Report
Read the final report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.
We played a clip compiling three individuals' statements during the January 6 hearings claiming the Constitution was divinely inspired: Greg Jacob, Rusty Bowers, and Rep. Liz Cheney. See the video on Amanda's Twitter (now X) account. The comprehensive BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6, 2021 insurrection is available online. Click here to read the letter organized by BJC and Christians from Christian Nationalism to the Select Committee, asking them to investigate how Christian nationalism motivated and intensified the attack. Watch Amanda's testimony about Christian nationalism before a House subcommittee in December 2022 at this link. Amanda and Holly discuss it in more detail in episode 9 of season 10.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Vera Bergengruen for TIME Magazine: Why a Group of Christians Is Fighting the Growing Threat of Christian Nationalism
Additional media coverage on the absence of Christian nationalism from the final report:
- Despite ample evidence, Christian nationalism mostly absent from final Jan. 6 report by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service
- Christian nationalism conspicuously absent from January 6 report, featuring an interview with Amanda Tyler and MSNBC's Alicia Menendez on the Alex Wagner Tonight program
Segment 2 (starting at 21:01): Contrasting images on the 2nd anniversary of January 6
After this podcast was first released, BJC created a compilation of clips from the 2023 prayer vigil, which you can watch on BJC's YouTube channel.
See BJC's photos of the prayer vigil in this Instagram post. There are also photos still online from Getty Images and Reuters at the vigil.
Watch this short compilation of the two events on January 6, 2023, on the @EndChristianNationalism TikTok.
You can follow the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign on Instagram and TikTok at the handle @EndChristianNationalism.
Segment 3 (starting at 29:29): Scrubbing the insurrection from Capitol tours
Amanda and Holly discussed this story from The Washington Post by Joe Heim: Official U.S. Capitol tour guides told to only mention Jan. 6 if asked
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
In our last show of 2025, Amanda and Holly talk about some of the news from the past week – including an expansion of the travel ban, devastating attacks around the world, and an appearance by Amanda before Congress to talk about the importance of protecting civil society. Plus, get an update on the podcast's plans for spring 2026 as Amanda embarks on her first sabbatical.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:33): Amanda's most recent appearance before Congress
You can hear Amanda's opening testimony at 06:37 in this podcast.
You can watch it online at this link.
Amanda and Holly mentioned the open letter from more than 3,000 nonprofits – including BJC – rejecting presidential attacks on nonprofit organizations. You can read it online.
Segment 2 (starting at 19:42): A weekend of tragedy and a new travel ban
Rob Reiner came on our podcast in 2024 to discuss his documentary "God and Country," which takes a look at white Christian nationalism. It is available on several streaming services.
Read about the expansion of the travel ban in this story from The Washington Post by David Nakamura: Trump expands travel ban to 39 countries after shooting of Guard members
Segment 3 (starting at 27:06): Amanda's upcoming sabbatical and podcast plans
Read Amanda's column about her upcoming sabbatical in the winter edition of BJC's magazine, Report from the Capital: A season of rest and freedom
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can keep these conversations ad-free with a gift to BJC. Consider making a gift before the end of 2025.
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Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Have a show you really want us to air during Amanda's sabbatical? Let us know at RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
The Trump administration created a "Religious Liberty Commission" in May, and it seems to be a mix of performative posturing and grievance airing, with some policy substance thrown in. Amanda and Holly discuss what this commission has – and hasn't – done so far, and they look more closely at this week's hearing on religion in the military. Littered with celebrities, many of the hearings are privileging certain religious views over others, often furthering "Christian nation" mythology and sharing general misinformation.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:33): What is this commission about?
Read Amanda's statement after President Donald Trump's comments at the Sept. 9, 2025, meeting of the Religious Liberty Commission at this link.
Segment 2 (starting at 12:48): The hearing on religion in the military
Amanda was quoted in this article by Karen Brooks Harper for the Dallas Morning News: Dan Patrick-led religious liberty commission is solidly rooted in Texas
Amanda and Holly discussed this article by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Defense Secretary Hegseth tests Constitution in Pentagon worship services
Do you want special emails about our show? Click here to sign up for our email list!
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Hear Amanda and Holly react live to some breaking developments in today's Respecting Religion podcast. One day after new legislation was introduced in Congress to save sacred Indigenous land, they discuss the history of and need for the Save Oak Flat from Foreign Mining Act. Plus, they talk about a brand-new class action lawsuit in Texas trying to halt the unconstitutional posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms, and they share an update on the latest court activity regarding efforts to protect the Johnson Amendment.
This conversation aired live on social media on BJC's Facebook and YouTube channels on Thursday, December 4, at 12:30 p.m. ET / 11:30 a.m. CT.
SHOW NOTES
You can watch this podcast on BJC's YouTube channel.
Oak Flat: Rep. Adelita Grijalva introduced the Save Oak Flat from Foreign Mining Act on Dec. 3, 2025. You can read more details in a release from her office, which includes a quote from Amanda.
For more on this issue, visit BJC's resource page at BJConline.org/SaveOakFlat
Johnson Amendment: Read this piece by Amanda published in the Dallas Morning News about the latest hearing on the Johnson Amendment: The court case that could accelerate mixing religion and politics
Read BJC's statement about the members of Congress who reaffirmed their support for the Johnson Amendment in November at this link on our website.
For more resources on the efforts to protect the Johnson Amendment, visit BJConline.org/JohnsonAmendment
Ten Commandments in Texas:
Here's a roundup of news items relating to the ongoing battled over the forced posting of the Ten Commandments, from Jaden Edison, Eleanor Klibanoff and Alejandro Serrano for the Texas Tribune: As appeals court is poised to consider Texas' Ten Commandments law, other legal challenges mount
Read more about the latest class action lawsuit in this story from Baptist News Global: New class-action suit filed to stop Commandments in Texas
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Clicking that link to make your gift lets us know you are a supporter of the podcast.
One religious freedom case at the Supreme Court isn't getting the sort of attention as others, despite how it's uniting groups that often disagree. So, why did the justices sound so skeptical in the courtroom? Amanda and Holly review this week's oral arguments in Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections, which involves the remedy available to a man whose religious freedom rights were violated when he was in prison. The violation isn't in question, so why is the remedy? Amanda and Holly review the details in this case, play audio from key moments in the courtroom, and discuss the statute that protects prisoners' religious freedom rights: The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): RLUIPA, RFRA, and this case
Amanda and Holly previewed the Landor case earlier this season – watch their conversation on BJC's YouTube channel.
BJC joined a diverse group of organizations on a friend-of-the-court brief in this case on the side of Mr. Landor – click this link to read the brief and see the groups who found common ground.
RLUIPA is the acronym for the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, passed by Congress in the year 2000. The acronym is often pronounced "Re-loop-ah." RFRA is the acronym for the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, pronounced "Riff-rah."
For more on the 2020 decision in Tanzin v. Tanvir, read this article on our website: Supreme Court rules RFRA allows monetary damages against federal officials
Segment 2 (starting at 11:05): What happened in the courtroom? Arguments on behalf of Mr. Landor
The Supreme Court heard Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections on Monday, November 10. Visit the Supreme Court's website to read a transcript or hear the audio from the courtroom.
We played four clips from oral arguments in this segment.
- Zack Tripp's opening statement, representing Mr. Landor (from 00:15-2:02 in the audio of the arguments)
- Exchange between Justice Samuel Alito and Zack Tripp (from 20:00-21:25 in the oral arguments)
- Exchange between Justice Sonia Sotomayor and Zack Tripp (from 23:35-25:56 in the oral arguments)
- Exchange between Justice Elena Kagan and Libby A. Baird, assistant to the solicitor general (from 1:06:38-1:07:38 in the oral argument)
Segment 3 (starting at 31:31): What did the state of Louisiana argue?
We played one clip from the oral argument during this segment:
- Exchange between Justice Elena Kagan and Ben Aguiñaga, the solicitor general of Louisiana (from 1:38:33-1:40:26)
Read more about the arguments in this article by Amy Howe for SCOTUSblog: Court appears skeptical of prison inmate's religious liberty claim
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
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Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Today, we are bringing you a special presentation on the contested issue of "sanctuary," which continues to cut into the immigration debates in our country. Dr. Sergio M. González traces the sanctuary movement to its roots in the 1980s and examines how we arrived at a moment where mercy is met with repression. This presentation was given on the campus of the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minn., on Oct. 22, 2025, as part of BJC's annual Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): Introduction
Dr. Sergio M. González is a historian of U.S. immigration, labor and religion. A professor at Marquette University, he is a co-founder and former organizer for the Dane Sanctuary Coalition.
He also is the co-creator of a podcast titled "Sanctuary: On the Border Between Church and State."
Segment 2 (starting at 04:45): Presentation from Dr. Sergio M. González
This is a recording of a lecture from Dr. Sergio González that took place Oct. 22, 2025, at the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minn. Watch the full presentation, including the audience Q&A, on BJC's YouTube channel at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnDp8hPNIo
Dr. Gonzalez mentions a document called "Religious Liberty and Immigration: Legal Analysis of Past and Future Claims." You can access it on the website of the Law, Rights & Religion Project.
This program was part of BJC's annual Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State. Learn more at BJConline.org/ShudenLectures.
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Do you want special emails about the show? Click here to sign up for our email list!
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
We hear a lot of misinformation about a long-standing part of the tax code that protects the nonprofit sector, and it's newly under attack in a questionable manner. On this episode, Amanda and Holly discuss the Johnson Amendment, what it does and doesn't do, and the concerning way the Trump administration is trying to undo it without going through a normal process. They also provide reminders of what all nonprofits – including houses of worship – can do without jeopardizing their 501(c)(3) status under that current law. It's a curious case – politicians say no one wants this part of the tax code, but it's proven popular over and over again. Join them for this conversation.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): The protections of – and support for – the Johnson Amendment
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Do you want special emails about the show? Click here to sign up for our email list!
Segment 2 (starting at 15:41): Various attempts to undermine and to protect this part of the tax code
Read more about the work of faith leaders to protect the Johnson Amendment throughout 2017 and into 2018 by visiting BJConline.org/faith-voices
Segment 3 (starting at 30:54): What's next?
For resources on the Johnson Amendment from BJC, visit our website at BJConline.org/JohnsonAmendment
The litigation mentioned in this program is continuing. There will be a hearing on this case November 25 in Dallas. The hearing was originally for November 7 in Washington, D.C., but it was rescheduled due to the ongoing government shutdown – Amanda and Holly discussed that briefly in last week's live episode.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
In this LIVE conversation, Amanda and Holly take a moment to catch up and review some of the recent news since last week's program. They discuss how religious leaders have been engaging in peaceful protests of immigration raids, how the ongoing government shutdown is impacting court cases, a change in Oklahoma regarding Bible teaching in public schools, and more. This show first aired live on Thursday, October 23, at 11 a.m. Eastern Time on BJC's YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram channels.
SHOW NOTES:
Do you want special emails about the show, including notifications when we go live? Click here to sign up for our special email list!
Read more about how faith leaders are protesting immigration raids in this article by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: After clergy arrests, religious pushback to ICE expands in Chicago
Amanda and Holly talked about Ryan Walters and his edict to have certain Bibles in Oklahoma public school classrooms on Episode 2 of Season 6: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools
Read this update on what's happening in Oklahoma now: New Oklahoma schools superintendent rescinds mandate for Bible instruction in schools
Hear Amanda on NPR's All Things Considered in this piece from Jason DeRose: Progressive Christians counter Christian Nationalism message
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
As the Supreme Court begins a new term, we can't ignore what else is going on in our country – attacks on the rule of law, weaponization of the Department of Justice, the militarization of American cities, disruptive and chaotic immigration enforcement, and a government shutdown. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman are back for a new season of Respecting Religion to bring thoughtful conversations to these issues and more at the intersection of religion and the law. In the season 7 premiere, they focus on the current Supreme Court term, including a case with an egregious violation of a person's religious freedom rights that brought together unlikely allies.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Welcome back to season 7
BJC (Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty) is also the home of Christians Against Christian Nationalism.
Amanda's book is titled How to End Christian Nationalism, and it is available wherever you get your books.:
Video of our episodes are now on YouTube! Click here for the season 7 playlist.
Do you want to receive special emails about the show? Click here to sign up for our email list!
Segment 2 (starting at 07:26): A disturbing case on religious freedom coming to the Court
Read about the three cases from last term in this article from BJC's magazine, Report from the Capital: Supreme Court issues decisions on religious charter school, exemptions and opt-out rights
Amanda and Holly mentioned Steve Vladeck's One First newsletter.
BJC joined a friend-of-the-court brief in Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections. Click here to read the brief and see the groups that came together across other ideological lines. Read more about the case in this article on our website. The Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in Landor on November 10.
Here's another preview piece, by Amy Howe at SCOTUSblog: Court to decide whether government officials can be held personally liable for violating inmate's religious liberty
Segment 3 (starting at 26:42): What else can we expect from the Court?
Read more about Chiles v. Salazar in this article by Amy Howe for SCOTUSblog: Majority of court appears skeptical of Colorado's "conversion therapy" ban
You're invited! Join us in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota, Oct. 21-23 for a special event focussed on the Sanctuary movement. We're honored to welcome Dr. Sergio González, historian, author, and co-creator of the podcast Sanctuary: On the Border Between Church and State, to explore the history, challenges, and future of the movement. Visit BJConline.org/ShurdenLectures for more details and links to sign up.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
With attacks on the rule of law, the militarization of troops in American cities, and a new Supreme Court term starting up, there is no better time to tune in to Respecting Religion. Join Holly and Amanda as they return for a new season to share analysis, opportunities for action, and ways to make sense of issues at the intersection of religion and the law. Respecting Religion is available on your favorite podcasting platform, and now, for the first time, with video on YouTube! We'll see you on October 16 for the season 7 premiere of Respecting Religion! Subscribe today, and hear previous episodes on our website: https://bjconline.org/respectingreligion/
On our season 6 finale, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman explore some of the consequential decisions from the final days of the Supreme Court term, including Mahmoud v. Taylor – which involves parents who want to opt their children out of curriculum they find in conflict with their religious beliefs – and U.S. v. Skrmetti, which focuses on access to medical care for transgender youth. They discuss the real world implications of these and other recent rulings. Amanda and Holly also celebrate a decision from the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals striking down Louisiana’s law requiring the posting of the Ten Commandments in every public school classroom and share why this case might find its way up to the Supreme Court before too long.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Recent activities and news
For the latest on the budget reconciliation bill and ways to make your voice known, visit BJConline.org/budgetbill2025
Segment 2 (starting at 07:01): A federal court decision and a Supreme Court case with far-reaching implications
Roake v. Brumley is the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals case that struck down the Louisiana law mandating the posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms. Read more about the decision and BJC’s brief on our website: Federal appeals court finds Louisiana’s Ten Commandments law unconstitutional as Texas enacts a similar measure
Trump v. CASA is the case often called the “birthright citizenship” case that is about national injunctions. Amanda and Holly recommended listening to the oral arguments and reading the decision and the dissent. All are available on the Supreme Court’s website.
Segment 3 (starting at 19:07): The decision in Mahmoud v. Taylor and its potential impact
Amanda and Holly discussed oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor in episode 15 of season 6. You can read the decision and the dissent on the Supreme Court’s website.
Holly mentioned this piece on the case from Religion News Service: ‘We were called book burners’: Families react to SCOTUS LGBTQ+ books decision
Segment 4 (starting 46:13): U.S. v. Skrmetti and what’s ahead for the Court
Amanda and Holly discussed U.S. v. Skrmetti in episode 6 of season 6. You can read the decision and the dissent on the Supreme Court’s website.
For more on the case involving the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act that the Supreme Court will hear this fall, read this piece by Adam Liptak for The New York Times: Supreme Court to Hear Rastafarian Prisoner’s Suit Over Shaved Dreadlocks
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What’s the difference between religious privilege and religious freedom? How does Christian nationalism spread? Why do so many ideas that start in Texas expand to other parts of the country? On this podcast, we bring you a special panel discussion on Christian nationalism in the Texas public sphere, recorded live on April 8. It features BJC Executive Director (and Respecting Religion co-host) Amanda Tyler, scholar David Brockman, professor Mark Chancey, and journalist Robert Downen. Moderated by Jack Jenkins, it was part of an all-day event focused on telling the story of religion in Texas through journalism, hosted by the Texas Tribune in partnership with Religion News Service, the Institute for Diversity and Civic Life, and Southern Methodist University’s Religious Studies department.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:33): Introducing today’s show and the panelists
Learn more about the Texas Tribune’s April 8 event titled “Telling the story of religion in Texas through journalism” on the website of the Texas Tribune. The website page dedicated to the event includes YouTube videos of each speaker and panel presentation.
The day-long event was held in partnership with the Texas Tribune, Religion News Service, the Institute for Diversity and Civic Life, and Southern Methodist University’s Religious Studies department.
Segment 2 (starting at 02:51): Panel presentation
You can watch a video of this presentation on YouTube, including a Q&A following the conversation.
The panelists are:
- Amanda Tyler, executive director of BJC (Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty), lead organizer of Christians Against Christian Nationalism, and co-host of this podcast
- Dr. David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University’s Baker Institute who also serves as an adjunct professor at Texas Christian University
- Dr. Mark Chancey, professor of religious studies at SMU
- Robert Downen, senior writer at “Texas Monthly”
The moderator is Jack Jenkins, national reporter at Religion News Service.
NOTE: After this panel was recorded, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott did sign legislation requiring every Texas public school classroom to display the Ten Commandments. Read more in this piece by Sameea Kamal for the Texas Tribune: Texas will require public school classrooms to display Ten Commandments under bill signed by governor
Amanda and Holly talked about the Texas Bible curriculum in episode 2 of this season: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
With decisions from the Supreme Court, a new travel ban, and a federally militarized presence in Los Angeles, there are many activities in our world that deserve attention. Amanda and Holly discuss several current events in this episode, including the revival of one of the ugliest policies of the first Trump administration. Plus, they review the unanimous decision in a Supreme Court case about religious exemptions to employment law and discuss the Court’s decision not to hear a case involving the protection of sacred land.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Recent and still-developing news
Holly and Amanda discussed changes in policy about sensitive locations in S6, Episode 10.
We discussed the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia in a special episode released April 21 with Melissa Rogers.
We discussed the harmful school voucher provision in the “big beautiful bill” during their live episode, released May 27. Hear the episode at this link or in your podcast feed, or watch it on YouTube.
Join BJC for a webinar on the problems with the budget reconciliation bill on Monday, June 16, at 2:30 p.m. Click here to register for the event, which is hosted by BJC, NETWORK Lobby for Catholic Social Justice, and Bread for the World.
Read more about the fallout from Rep. Mary Miller referring to a Sikh prayer leader as a “Muslim” and erroneously claiming our country was founded as a “Christian nation” in this article by Andrew Solender for Axios: Rep. Mary Miller faces bipartisan fury over “ignorant” Sikh comment
In memory of Dr. Walter Brueggemann, listen to his 2019 conversation with Amanda on our podcast series exploring the dangers of Christian nationalism: Theological view of Christian nationalism with Walter Brueggemann
Segment 2 (starting at 13:17): The new travel ban
After President Trump issued his new travel ban on June 4, Amanda released a statement you can read on BJC’s website: BJC condemns new travel ban as ‘state-sanctioned discrimination’
Visit BJC’s website to read more about the case of Trump v. Hawaii and the history of the travel ban.
Support the NO BAN Act: Click here to use BJC’s form to contact your members of Congress about the legislation.
Segment 3 (starting 20:09): The decision in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission
Supreme Court decisions we are waiting for include:
- Mahmoud v. Taylor (Hear a discussion of oral arguments in S6, Ep. 15)
- U.S. v. Skrmetti (Hear a discussion of oral arguments in S6, Ep. 06)
The case Apache Stronghold v. U.S. involves the sacred land of Chí’chil Biłdagoteel — loosely translated in English as “Oak Flat.” Read more about the denial of cert on BJC’s website: U.S. Supreme Court declines Oak Flat petition, allows for federal transfer of sacred land to mining company. Amanda and Holly talked about this issue on a podcast back in 2022: S3, Ep. 17: Religious freedom and our Indigenous neighbors: Save Oak Flat.
Amanda and Holly talked about the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin in Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A case with a thin record is raising plenty of questions at the Supreme Court. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the case of Mahmoud v. Taylor, which involves parents who want to opt their children out of public school curriculum they say conflicts with their religious beliefs. But, what’s the difference between expected exposure and unconstitutional coercion? Does age matter? What happens when opt-out options become too burdensome and overwhelming to accommodate? Amanda and Holly examine the issues in this case as well as the challenges for the school district and for the parents. They also share what the oral arguments revealed about the justices’ interest in the books and discussions outside of the courtroom.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 01:50): Remembering Justice David Souter
Amanda and Holly released a live mini-episode on Tuesday, May 27, to review the Supreme Court decision in the religious charter school case, the voucher proposal in the budget reconciliation bill, and a court decision halting the dismantling of the Department of Education. Hear the episode at this link or in your podcast feed, or watch it on YouTube.
Amanda and Holly mention the other two church-state cases this term addressed in previous episodes:
- Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin in Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
- Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond in Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools
BJC Executive Director Emeritus J. Brent Walker wrote a reflection piece on Justice David Souter when the justice retired in 2009: Walker reflects on Souter’s Supreme Court tenure
Amy Howe wrote a piece on Justice Souter for SCOTUSblog: David Souter, retired Supreme Court justice, dies at 85
Segment 2 (starting at 06:58): The facts (that we know) in the case and what’s at stake
BJC has a post on our website describing Mahmoud v. Taylor: In oral argument, U.S. Supreme Court wrestles with the limits of public school parents’ opt-out rights
The U.S. Supreme Court has a transcript of oral arguments and the audio recording of oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor available on its website.
Segment 3 (starting 25:54): The two big substantive points from the oral argument
We played two clips from the oral argument in this segment:
- Justice Elena Kagan and Eric Baxter, who argued on behalf of the group of parents (the petitioners)
- Justice Samuel Alito and Eric Baxter
Amanda and Holly talked about the Texas Bible curriculum in episode 2 of this season: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
In a conversation broadcast live on May 27, Amanda and Holly provide updates on a day of big news in the religious liberty world. They first look at the surprising 4-4 deadlock from the U.S. Supreme Court in the Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond case, which preserves a religious liberty principle by stopping the creation of the nation’s first religious charter school. They also discuss the troubling school voucher proposal that was slipped into the budget reconciliation bill that the U.S. House of Representatives narrowly passed on May 22, offering tips on how you can help stop it as it goes to the Senate. Plus, they give an update on last week’s court order stopping President Trump’s dismantling of the Department of Education and share why that’s good news for public education and religious freedom.
Show notes:
You can watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/live/i8S3xcBTs14?feature=shared
Holly read the entire two sentence decision in the Drummond case, which is available on the Supreme Court’s website. You can also read Holly’s statement released the day of the Oklahoma v. Drummond decision on BJC’s website.
The discussion of the budget reconciliation bill starts at 8:23. BJC has a website page with the latest on the bill and the actions you can take to stop it in the Senate. Visit BJConline.org/budgetbill2025 for more, including tips on finding a town hall to attend so you can connect with your lawmaker in person.
Click here to directly contact your U.S. Senators about the voucher provision, using our simple form.
Want to send us a video or an audio recording about why this budget bill would harm your community? Click here!
On May 22 – the same day the House passed the budget bill and the Supreme Court released its Drummond decision – U.S. District Judge Myong Joun granted a preliminary injunction stopping the Trump administration from dismantling the Department of Education. The conversation about this begins at 15:04.
Want to make sure you don’t miss future live episodes of the podcast? Subscribe to our email list to be notified of future shows, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Bluesky, X, or LinkedIn.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church composition. That’s not government neutrality toward religion – that’s religious preference repackaged as educational choice.
SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 01:53): Developments since our previous show
Amanda and Holly talked about the Catholic Charities/Wisconsin case in episode 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
We released our episode with Melissa Rogers to coincide with the first 100 days of the Trump administration. It is episode 13 of season 6: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good
President Donald Trump issued a proclamation on the National Day of Prayer and he signed an executive order on the same day establishing the Religious Liberty Commission.
The American Bar Association has a website page dedicated to National Law Day You can click this link to read President Donald Trump’s proclamation on “Loyalty Day and Law Day.”
The Respecting Religion podcast won a 2025 “Best in Class” award from the Religion Communicators Council’s DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards for our episode titled: “But … is it Christian nationalism?” from season 5.
Segment 2 (starting at 09:51): Oral arguments in Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond
Holly mentioned this article from The Washington Post by Justin Jouvenal and Laura Meckler that provides an overview of the case: How religious public schools went from a long shot to the Supreme Court
Holly and Amanda discussed these cases as they worked their way through the courts in episode 16 of season 5: The trouble with religious charter schools
BJC filed an amicus brief in Oklahoma v. Drummond, along with other Christian organizations as well as Jewish, Muslim and interfaith groups. Click here to read our brief.
We played four clips in this segment from the oral arguments in Oklahoma v. Drummond. You can visit the Supreme Court’s website for a transcript of the arguments and an audio recording of the arguments.
- Clip #1: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson & Solicitor General John Sauer
- Clip #2: Chief Justice John Roberts
- Clip #3: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
- Clip #4: Justice Elena Kagan & Michael McGinley
Amanda and Holly mentioned three decisions authored by Chief Justice John Roberts that developed a new way of understanding the Free Exercise Clause. They are:
- Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017)
- Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020)
- Carson v. Makin (2022)
Holly’s 2017 column on the Trinity Lutheran decision is titled “Decidedly narrow, deeply troubling.”
Segment 3 (starting 37:12): What do we expect?
We played one clip from the oral argument in this segment: The opening statement of Greg Garre, who argued the case for the attorney general of Oklahoma.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Melissa Rogers joins the podcast for a conversation about how each of us can take steps to promote religious freedom and the common good in the United States today. After leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations, she shares her inside perspective on government, where we are right now, and how people can truly make an impact. Our religious freedom protects everyone’s right to bring their faith to the public square, and you won’t want to miss this conversation about opportunities we have as Americans to engage government at all levels and express ourselves in the face of injustice.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The genius of our constitutional protections for religious freedom
Melissa Rogers served as the executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations. You can click here to read her extensive biography. She is the author of Faith in American Public Life, published in 2019.
She has been on two earlier BJC podcasts:
- Respecting Religion, S2, Ep. 06: What’s next? The Biden administration and religious liberty (2020)
- The Dangers of Christian Nationalism series, episode 9: Religious freedom, church-state law and Christian nationalism (2019), alongside Rabbi David Saperstein. You also can watch a video of that podcast.
NOTE: On April 21, we released a special podcast episode recorded at the same time as this conversation, focusing on the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law. Click here to hear that portion of the conversation.
Segment 2 (starting at 10:09): Our current moment as a country
Here are links with more information from this portion of the conversation:
Melissa discussed the work of the federal government to protect places of worship. Protecting Houses of Worship is a helpful resource on this topic from the CISA (the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency of the Department of Homeland Security).
She also mentioned the Biden-Harris administration’s work on countering hate. One example is the United We Stand Summit in 2022: Taking Action to Prevent and Address Hate-Fueled Violence and Foster Unity. Click here to read more about the summit, or click here to watch the full summit proceedings.
In addition, the Biden-Harris administration released the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Antisemitism in 2023, and the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Islamophobia and Anti-Arab Hate in 2024.
Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Segment 3 (starting 16:52): Practical ways to take action
Here are a few resources and organizations to connect with if you are interested in responding to governmental actions, including by sharing information about their impact on you or your community:
DOGE cuts:
- Have you been impacted by DOGE cuts? Share your story with the Center for American Progress
- Article published by The Century Foundation: We Led Federal Agencies. Here Are 10 Ways That President Trump and Elon Musk’s Attacks on Federal Workers Will Hurt You by Mark Zuckerman, Julie Su, Lauren McFerran, Gayle Goldin, Rachel West, Chiquita Brooks-LaSure, Ruth Friedman, Carole Johnson, Viviann Anguiano, Kayla Patrick and Loredana Valtierra
Information on various lawsuits challenging governmental actions:
Melissa mentioned the lawsuit challenging the recission of the “sensitive locations” guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit on our website, which is being led by Democracy Forward. Another lawsuit on sensitive locations is also being pursued by a group led by the Institute for Congressional Advocacy and Protection.
You can find more information about this and other pending lawsuits here:
- Updates from Democracy Forward
- Just Security’s litigation tracker
- Legal actions of CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington)
Resource on how to protect democracy:
- Protecting Democracy’s Faithful Fight Toolkit
Interested in calling your congressional representatives about issues you care about? Here’s how you can find their contact information:
- Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House
- Click here to find your U.S. Senators
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
On this special bonus episode of the Respecting Religion podcast, we are featuring a conversation that could not wait until our normal release date. In this still-developing story, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was mistakenly removed by the U.S. government from Maryland to El Salvador. His case and series of injustices are not just things that move all of us as people of faith, but there are also profound ramifications of this situation on due process, the rule of law and freedom for everyone living in our country.
Our next full episode of Respecting Religion will feature a conversation with Melissa Rogers, a lawyer who served in two different presidential administrations leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships. While recording that episode, the conversation turned to this ongoing injustice, and we decided that part of our conversation couldn’t wait until our normal release date.
SHOW NOTES
Articles with additional information:
Timeline: Wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador (ABC News)
Video: Jennifer Vasquez making her statement supporting her husband (ABC News)
Article: Democrats Land in El Salvador, Seeking Release of Maryland Resident (New York Times)
Interested in calling your congressional representatives about this issue? Here’s how you can find their contact information:
Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House
Click here to find your U.S. Senators
There has been no shortage of news from all three branches of government in Washington, D.C., but one thing hasn’t changed: the U.S. Supreme Court continues to be interested in religious liberty cases. On today’s show, Amanda and Holly review the recent oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin, which focuses on a religious exemption in the state’s unemployment compensation laws. There are big questions being asked in this case, such as where one draws the lines, how can “religion” be defined, and what is meant – exactly – by the term “proselytization.” Plus, Holly and Amanda take a moment to step back and talk about the current attacks we are seeing on the rule of law in our country.
SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): Current state of the courts and various attacks on the rule of law
There are three church-state cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term:
- Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (Oral arguments were March 31)
- Mahmoud v. Taylor (oral arguments will be April 22)
- Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond (oral arguments will be April 30)
Segment 2 (starting at 08:00): Oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin
Visit the website of the U.S. Supreme Court for a transcript and an audio recording of the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin.
We played a clip from the oral arguments between Justice Neil Gorsuch and Colin Roth, who argued the case as the assistant attorney general for the state of Wisconsin. You can read the exchange beginning on page 81 of the oral argument transcript.
Holly and Amanda mentioned the 2021 case of Fulton v. Philadelphia. Read more about that case on BJC’s website.
Read Amy Howe’s coverage of the Catholic Charities case for SCOTUSblog: Supreme Court likely to embrace expanded tax exemption for religious charities
Read Adam Liptak’s coverage for the New York Times: Supreme Court Leans Toward Catholic Charity in Tax Case
Segment 3 (starting 26:48): Decision thoughts and what’s ahead
Amanda mentioned the upcoming Oklahoma v. Drummond case. BJC filed a brief in that case, and you can read it on our website.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
African Americans’ knowledge traditions, religious practices, political cultures and ideas are rich resources that facilitate new concepts of religious freedom. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Dr. Sabrina E. Dent and Dr. Corey D. B. Walker join Amanda and Holly to discuss the book they co-edited, African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. It’s a collection of essays that provide novel interpretations of religious freedom informed by African American experiences, which are essential for a full public discourse about the topic. First released in the days before the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, the second edition includes a new preface addressing the need for religious freedom to undergo a deep interrogation in our perilous times.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Introducing the book and the conversations it inspires
Dr. Sabrina E. Dent is the director of the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation. Learn more about her on BJC’s website.
Dr. Corey D. B. Walker is the dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, Wake Forest Professor of the Humanities, and director of the Program in African American Studies. Learn more about him on the Wake Forest University School of Divinity website.
The second edition of African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities is now available, free to all.
Dr. Dent mentioned the religious freedom course with students from religious graduate schools at historically Black colleges and universities that began many of these conversations. Read about that in this 2019 article by Adelle Banks for Religion News Service: Black seminarians take first-time religious freedom course
Learn more and read the text of David Walker’s Appeal to the Coloured Citizens of the World on the website of the National Constitution Center.
The Columbia Law School Law, Rights & Religion Project released the Black Religious Liberty Curriculum in 2024. You can see the 12-part video series and access the curriculum on their website.
Segment 2 (starting at 18:51): Pushback and barriers to expanding the narrative
You can access a PDF or read a flip-through edition of the book African Americans and Religious Freedom. Visit our website for more details.
Segment 3 (starting 31:01): The launch event on February 28
You can watch a recording of the Feb. 28 event celebrating the re-release of the book on YouTube.
The Rev. William Lamar IV talked with NPR about the ruling that gave his church the copyright of the Proud Boys. You can listen to his conversation here.
Learn more about the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation on our website at BJConline.org/center
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Actions and rumors of actions in Washington, D.C., are continuing to dominate the news cycle and keep people on edge. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Amanda and Holly discuss the devastation of dismantling the Department of Education and the problematic push for a nationwide school voucher program. They also look at the latest in the battle between faith communities and the Trump administration to protect sensitive locations from immigration raids, and they preview the three religious liberty cases on the Supreme Court’s docket this term.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Federal school vouchers, shutting down the Department of Education, and a potential new travel ban
Holly mentioned this story on the school voucher proposals by Laura Meckler for The Washington Post: GOP voucher plan would divert billions in taxes to private schools
If you want to contact your representatives in Washington about the trouble with school voucher programs, click here to use our convenient form to email them directly.
Amanda mentioned this story from Inside Higher Education about potential plans to shut down the Department of Education: Draft Order Offers Hints to How Trump Wants to Shut Down the Department
After we recorded this episode, the administration began gutting the Department of Education through layoffs instead of an executive order. Amanda released a statement calling it a “reckless move,” which you can read on our website.
We also sent out an alert about the issue to the members of BJC’s email list, and it included a form they can use to contact their members of Congress about the problems with shutting down the Department of Education. Click here to use our convenient form to email your members directly about this issue.
Sign up for BJC’s email updates for immediate alerts when there are ways to take action: BJConline.org/subscribe
The New York Times previews the possible new travel ban in this article: Trump Administration Prepares to Revive and Expand Travel Bans. BJC consistently called out the dangers of the travel ban during the first Trump administration, including the very first one on Jan. 27, 2017.
Segment 2 (starting at 16:26): Sensitive locations and calling on Congress to do their job
There are two current lawsuits challenging the administration’s guidance on sensitive locations. In the lawsuit from Quaker congregations, a Sikh temple and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the judge issued an injunction on February 24 that blocks immigration officials from entering their houses of worship to conduct immigration enforcement operations. Read about that order on Democracy Forward’s website.
Holly mentioned a new bill in Congress called Protecting Sensitive Locations Act.
You are invited to join Faithful Witness Wednesdays throughout the month of March, as people of faith gather on the Capitol grounds to call on Congress to take action. Sign up for the March 19 or the Mach 26 events, which are organized by Sojourners and the Washington Interfaith Staff Community.
Amanda spoke at the March 5 Faithful Witness Wednesday – you can watch a recording on the SojoAction YouTube channel and see photos on BJC’s Facebook page.
Segment 3 (starting 25:35): Three religious liberty cases headed to SCOTUS
Amanda and Holly mentioned the emergency order from the Supreme Court to re-start payments for aid work that had been completed. Read more in this story by Justin Jouvenal, Annie Gowen and Ann E. Marimow for The Washington Post: Supreme Court says judge can force Trump administration to pay foreign aid
Amanda and Holly mentioned three religious liberty cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term:
- Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (March 31)
- The consolidated cases of Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond and St. Isidore of Seville Catholic Virtual School v. Drummond (April 30)
- Mahmoud v. Taylor (April 22)
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
In our second show of the second Trump administration, Amanda and Holly run through a list of recent events that point to a gross misunderstanding of what “religious freedom” means. They review the policy announcements made during the National Prayer Breakfast – including the creation of a task force to “eradicate anti-Christian bias” – and they look at how this administration’s accusations and actions are limiting the religious freedom of several Christian groups who serve others. They also discuss the growing resistance, including court challenges and two opportunities for action to share your views with Congress and the Trump administration. In the final segment, Amanda and Holly share how BJC is celebrating Black History Month with a special invitation.
SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): The National Prayer Breakfast and an anti-Chrisitan bias task force
Listen to Amanda and Holly’s previous conversations on the National Prayer Breakfast in the following episodes:
- S1, Ep. 01 in 2020, beginning at 28:44 into that first episode of this podcast series.
- S4, Ep. 11 in 2023, exploring the many questions it raises and how it differs from the National Day of Prayer.
After the second event tied to the National Prayer Breakfast, President Trump released an executive order creating the White House Faith Office and announced his appointments to the office.
On the same day, he released an executive order creating the Task Force to Eradicate Anti-Christian Bias. Amanda posted her reaction to that action on Bluesky.
In her testimony before Congress in 2018, Amanda spoke about the need to acknowledge and address violence and rhetoric directed against religious minorities in the U.S. and abroad.
Segment 2 (starting at 14:29): Executive order on education, lawsuits on immigration, and the rescinding of the sensitive locations memo
President Trump released an executive order titled “Expanding Educational Freedom and Opportunity for Families” and BJC shared our concerns in a statement about how such an act would undermine religious freedom.
The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship joined the lawsuit filed by Quaker congregations challenging the removal of the “sensitive locations” guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit on our website. After we recorded this podcast, another lawsuit was filed by a number of religious denominations and organizations, including two supporting bodies of BJC: Fellowship Southwest and Convención Bautista Hispana de Texas. Read more from Baptist News Global.
Segment 3 (starting 24:10): Attacks on faith-based service providers and two opportunities for action
For more on the comments from Elon Musk, Mike Flynn and Vice President JD Vance targeting religious groups, read this article by Michelle Boorstein for The Washington Post: Attacks on Catholics, Lutherans suggest new Trump approach on religion
“Defunding and demonizing the government’s faith-based partners will make its job harder” is the title of the op-ed published by Religion News Service, written by Amanda alongside Aaron Dorfman from A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy and Jennifer Walker Thomas from Mormon Women for Ethical Government.
TWO ACTION STEPS YOU CAN TAKE IN THIS TIME:
- Sign the letter calling on Congress and President Trump to provide necessary oversight to the Department of Government Efficiency, ensuring that the freedom for religious organizations to practice and honor their faith is not infringed upon by government action. It is organized by BJC, Mormon Women for Ethical Government, and A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy. Click here for the letter.
- Tell your member of Congress to oppose House Resolution 59, which could condemn a sermon by Bishop Mariann Budde as a “distorted message.” No one has to agree with her message to oppose this resolution, which wrongly indicates that the government should decide what is acceptable in matters of religion. We have a simple form you can use to send your own message. Click here for our form.
We sent information about those two opportunities for action to people in our community who receive emails. If you would like to receive them, visit BJConline.org/subscribe to sign up for our email list!
Amanda and Holly discussed the U.S. v. Skrmetti case in episode 6 of season 6.
Segment 4 (starting 31:39): Celebrating Black History Month
Throughout Black History Month, BJC is sharing stories and insight on our Instagram and TikTok channels. Here are a few recent videos:
- Black history is American history
- Intersection of Black history and religious freedom
- Black artists
INVITATION: You are invited to a special livestream event on Friday, February 28, which will re-launch the book African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. Click here to learn more about the book and sign up for the event!
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
In this week’s show, Amanda and Holly discuss the problems with government mandates to post the Ten Commandments in classrooms, focusing on a case out of Louisiana. BJC and other Christian groups filed a brief in that case to explain why, as Christians, we oppose the Louisiana law and how the government’s decision to choose a religious text to display in a public school setting not only cheapens our faith but also puts the government in a role it is not called to play. Plus, Amanda and Holly talk through President Donald Trump’s first week back in the White House, sharing where they saw concerning signs for religion and religious liberty.
SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): President Trump’s first week back and backlash to a sermon
Amanda and Holly talked about ways to handle a constant influx of news and the dangers of “God saved me” rhetoric when others died in the episode after the 2024 election: S6, Ep. 04: Election Day: What happened and where do we go from here
Amanda wrote a piece for Bloomberg Opinion about the backlash to Bishop Mariann Budde’s sermon at the service of unity and what it teaches us about religious freedom: Trump’s Response to Bishop’s Sermon on Unity Is Un-American
Learn more about the two new religious liberty cases to be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in this piece on our website: U.S. Supreme Court agrees to hear cases involving religious school funding, parent rights to opt out of grade school curriculum
Amanda and Holly discussed the issues with religious charter schools in 2024: S5, Ep. 16: The trouble with religious charter schools
Read more about the lawsuit filed by a group of Quaker congregations opposing raids in churches on religious freedom grounds in this article by Bernie Pazanowski for Bloomberg Law: Quakers Sue to Block Trump’s Immigration Raids in Churches
Segment 2 (starting at 14:21): Louisiana’s mandate to post the Ten Commandments in classrooms
Read the brief from BJC and other Chrisitan groups in Roake v. Brumley at this link.
Learn more about the case in this post on our website: BJC urges federal appeals court to reject Louisiana law requiring public school classrooms to post the Ten Commandments
Holly and Amanda discussed the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision and its abandonment of the Lemon test in this episode in 2022: S3, Ep. 21: Not solving a problem, but creating one: Dissecting the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision
Holly and Amanda discussed the Ten Commandments on two episodes in 2023 when a bill was being discussed in Texas: S4, Ep. 20: The Ten Commandments S4, Ep. 21: 613 Commandments: James Talarico on his defense of church-state separation as a Christian
Segment 3 (starting 29:53): Oral arguments and what’s next
Hear last week’s oral arguments in this case at the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at this link.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
President Jimmy Carter introduced millions of people to what it means to be a Baptist. In this episode, Amanda and Holly reflect on what he meant to our country and to both of them, as fellow Baptists, as well as his impact on faith freedom for all. They share how he is a shining example of the diversity of Baptists in our country as well as what it looks like to live out one’s faith freely and fully without forcing it on others.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): A look back at the life of Jimmy Carter and his funeral service
The New York Times has an extensive obituary on President Jimmy Carter, which you can read online: Jimmy Carter, Peacemaking President Amid Crises, Is Dead at 100
You can watch a recording of President Carter’s funeral on the YouTube channel of the Washington National Cathedral: In Celebration of and in Thanksgiving for the Life of President James Carter – 1.9.25
Holly mentioned an article from The Washington Post titled “One chance to get this right, a look behind the prep for Carter’s funeral.” It is available online under the title “How do you create a funeral fit for a president? A look behind Carter’s.”
Holly mentioned speaking with Paul Baxley, the executive coordinator of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, who attended the service. CBF is the denominational home of President Carter’s church, Maranatha Baptist Church.
Segment 2 (starting at 12:41): Carter as a Baptist: Commitment, divisions, and the New Baptist Covenant
Amanda’s piece honoring President Carter in TIME magazine is available online: Jimmy Carter’s Commitment to Religious Liberty Should Guide Us All
Amanda read comments from President Carter in 1979, saying he thought the government should “stay out of the prayer business.” You can read the archived article on the website of The New York Times: President Is Opposed To School‐Prayer Bill
Amanda was quoted during a conversation on Jimmy Carter’s faith between Jason DeRose and Ailsa Chang on NPR’s All Things Considered, which also included a quote from the Rev. Dr. Martin Marty in 1976: Jimmy Carter’s complicated relationship to the church
For more on the history of the New Baptist Covenant, read this 2022 story by Mark Wingfield for Baptist News Global: New Baptist Covenant shifts gears to convene, connect and communicate
Amanda mentioned this story in The Washington Post about First Baptist Church of the City of Washington, D.C., which is the church where both she and President Carter were once members: Jimmy Carter attended this D.C. church. Now, it honors his legacy.
Segment 3 (starting 24:26): Carter’s legacy and example for where we are today
Amanda read President Carter’s comments from a 1977 press conference on the separation of church and state. You can read the transcript on the website of The New York Times: Transcript of the President’s News Conference With U.S. and Polish Journalists
You can see the never-before-released video of Amanda and BJC Executive Director Emeritus Brent Walker honoring Jimmy Carter at this link.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A Supreme Court case on medical care for transgender youth could have major ramifications – not only for children who have gender dysphoria and their families but also for how other statutes are reviewed under the Equal Protection Clause. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the oral arguments in U.S. v. Skrmetti, breaking down key moments in the heated courtroom exchanges, examining the specific constitutional question in this case, and discussing the broader implications of the possible ruling. While the specific question in this case involves the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and not the Religion Clauses of the First Amendment, religion and religious arguments often loom large in cases that involve sexual orientation or gender identity.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The stakes of Skrmetti and the specific question presented
For more on the atmosphere surrounding the case, read this piece from Mark Walsh for SCOTUSblog: Inside the Supreme Court arguments on transgender care
Visit the website of the National Archives for more information on the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Segment 2 (starting at 07:17): The heated oral arguments
The U.S. Supreme Court heard U.S. v. Skrmetti on Dec. 4, 2024. The Supreme Court’s website has links to listen to the oral arguments or read a transcript of the arguments.
We played four clips from the courtroom:
- The opening argument of Elizabeth Prelogar, Solicitor General of the United States (from 00:00:10 in the oral argument)
- A question and statement from Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (from 01:41:25 in the oral argument)
- The opening argument of Matthew Rice, Solicitor General for the state of Tennessee (from at 01:45:26 in the oral argument)
- An exchange between Matthew Rice and Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (from 02:10:17 in the oral argument)
Holly mentioned the Bostock v. Clayton County decision from 2020, which interpreted Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to prohibit employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Holly and Amanda discussed the decision in episode 17 of season 1, titled “A landmark case for LGTBQ rights: What’s next for religious liberty?”
Segment 3 (starting 39:57): Thank you to our listeners
Our most-listened to episode in 2024 was episode 21 of season 5, titled “But … is it Christian nationalism?”
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Today’s episode brings you a special presentation on the politics of secularization, featuring a presentation from Dr. John Compton and responses from Rev. Dr. David Gushee and Rev. Dr. Angela Parker. Given the week after the 2024 presidential election, the lecture and responses explore how rising secularism contributes to the growth of political extremism, how flagging participation in faith traditions correlates to diminishing civic engagement, and the importance of taking a holistic approach to the various issues undermining democracy and dividing progressive movements.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Today’s episode
Dr. John Compton was the speaker for the 20th annual Walter B. and Kay W. Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, presenting three lectures on the politics of secularization Nov. 13-14 on the campuses of Mercer University in Atlanta and Macon, Ga.
To watch each of the three presentations in their entirety, click on the titles below:
Lecture 1: Democratic Values in a Secular Age
Lecture 2: Secularization and the Rise of Political Extremism
Lecture 3: Secularization and the Fracturing of the American Left (featured in this podcast, including responses from Rev. Dr. Parker and Rev. Dr. Gushee)
You can also read a recap of the lecture series in BJC’s winter 2024 magazine, Report from the Capital.
Segment 2 (starting at 03:18): Dr. John Compton
A professor of political science and chair of the political science department at Chapman University in Orange, Calif., Dr. Compton’s lectures focused on the theme of the politics of secularization. Read more about Dr. Compton on his faculty page.
Segment 3 (starting 36:13): Response from Rev. Dr. David Gushee
Rev. Dr. David P. Gushee is Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics at Mercer University, Chair of Christian Social Ethics at Vrije Universiteit (“Free University”) Amsterdam, and Senior Research Fellow at the International Baptist Theological Study Centre. Learn more about him on his website or on his faculty page at Mercer University’s McAfee School of Theology.
Segment 4 (starting 45:24): Response from Rev. Dr. Angela Parker
Rev. Dr. Angela N. Parker is associate professor of New Testament and Greek at Mercer University’s McAfee School of Theology. In her research, Dr. Parker merges Womanist thought and postcolonial theory while reading biblical texts. Read more about Dr. Parker on her faculty page.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Now that Election Day 2024 is in the rearview mirror, what did we learn? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at the results and what they might mean for our country and the protection of faith freedom for all. They discuss where we saw religion used on the campaign trail, what we might expect to see in the next four years under a second Trump administration, and ways all of us can make a significant difference in local communities.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Did Americans vote for authoritarianism when they voted for Trump?
Holly mentioned being in Georgia after the elections for BJC’s Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State. You can learn more about the presentations from Dr. John Compton during that event, focused on the politics of secularization, on our website at BJConline.org/ShurdenLectures.
Amanda mentioned her current book tour for How to End Christian Nationalism. Her last stop in 2024 will be in Richmond, Va., this weekend, but she will be back on the road in 2025. Visit EndChristianNationalism.com for details and ways to order the book.
Segment 2 (starting at 13:42): Where did we see religion and Christian nationalism in the closing days of the campaign and its aftermath?
Click this link to watch remarks from President-elect Donald Trump on election night, and click this link to watch Vice President Kamala Harris’ concession speech on election night, both via C-SPAN.
For more on the January 6 attack on the Capitol, read the report itiled “Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection,” created by BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Amanda sent an email to the BJC community after the election. You can read it on Baptist News Global: This is the time for our movement to meet the moment
If you want to receive emails from BJC, you can sign up on our website: BJConline.org/subscribe
Amanda mentioned being in Austin, Texas, on Monday to testify against the troubling Bible-infused curriculum proposed for Texas public schools. For the latest, read this article by Troy Closson for The New York Times: Texas Education Board Backs Curriculum With Lessons Drawn From Bible. Amanada and Holly discussed the issues with this curriculum in episode 2 of season 6: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools.
We want to hear from you! If you want to connect us with an organization doing good work in your community, contact Joy Pettigrew, BJC’s community partnership manager, at jpettigrew@BJConline.org. An organization does not need to be devoted to countering Christian nationalism, even if that might be the outcome of the work they are doing.
If you are in North Texas and want to get involved in the North Texas Organizing Project, contact Lisa Jacob at ljacob@BJConline.org.
Segment 3 (starting 32:51): Good news about school voucher initiatives
Don Byrd wrote an article for BJC’s website about the rejection of school vouchers in Kentucky, Nebraska, and Colorado: Voters soundly reject school voucher initiatives in multiple states
For more discussion on the problems with school vouchers, listen to episode 8 and episode 9 of season 5.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Today’s episode takes you on the road with Amanda Tyler as she travels the country with her book, titled “How to End Christian Nationalism.” You’ll hear a conversation with Amanda and the Rev. Dr. Bill Leonard about the problems of Christian nationalism, held October 29 at Knollwood Baptist Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. “How to End Christian Nationalism” is a vital companion for countering the dangerous ideology, and you can order a copy wherever you get your books.
Our next podcast episode will be released November 21, and it will include Amanda’s and Holly’s reactions to the 2024 elections.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Today’s show
You can order Amanda’s book wherever you get your books. Visit EndChristianNationalism.com for more information and a list of upcoming tour dates.
The Rev. Dr. Bill Leonard is the founding dean at the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, who now holds the title of “professor of divinity emeritus.” He has written some 25 books, and his research focuses on Church History with particular attention to American religion, Baptist studies, and the Appalachian religion. Learn more about him at this link.
Dr. Leonard was a guest on our 2019 podcast series about the dangers of Christian nationalism, featured on the episode addressing the misguided idea that America was founded as a “Christian nation.” Listen to that episode at this link.
Segment 2 (starting at 02:36): The conversation
You can watch a video recording of this conversation on the YouTube page of Knollwood Baptist Church.
This event was a partnership between Knollwood Baptist Church, First Baptist on Fifth, and Ardmore Baptist Church, all churches located in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
Segment 3 (starting at 47:45): We’ll see you in two weeks for our election episode!
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
We continue to see bold attempts by people who espouse Christian nationalism to influence our youngest population, and news this summer out of Oklahoma and Texas show two troubling examples. In this episode, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman talk about the edict from Ryan Walters in Oklahoma to mandate having the Bible in public schools – alongside our nation’s founding documents – and the new proposed curriculum in Texas that strangely uses religious beliefs as fact in lessons for students as young as kindergarten.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): How does Christian nationalism impact public schools?
BJC has several resources for issues at the intersection of religion in public schools. Click here to see a list, including a short overview from BJC and classic resources that include A Parent’s Guide to Religion in the Public Schools and A Teacher’s Guide to Religion in the Public Schools.
Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Holly and Amanda discussed Christian nationalism in the public schools in episode 14 of season 4.
Segment 2 (starting at 05:39): Oklahoma created a Bible mandate … and you’ll never guess which Bible perfectly fit the requirements! (actually, you probably will guess immediately)
Read the original edict from Ryan Walters at this link, and read the guidance released later at this link.
Amanda and Holly read from this article by Jennifer Palmer, Paul Monies and Heather Warlickand for The Oklahoman: ‘Trump Bible’ one of few that meet Walters’ criteria for Oklahoma classrooms
In October of this year, Oklahoma amended its requirement for Bibles in classrooms to no longer require the Bible to include U.S. historical documents. Read more in this article by Ken Miller for the Associated Press: Oklahoma amends request for Bibles that initially appeared to match only version backed by Trump
Segment 3 (starting 21:32): Troubling Texas curriculum
Amanda mentioned this article by By Linda Jacobson for The 74 which broke the story: Exclusive: Texas Seeks to Inject Bible Stories into Elementary School Reading Program
Read more about the September day of action in Texas in this article from BJC’s Report from the Capital magazine: Saying ‘no’ to Bible-based curriculum in Texas
Amanda shares more about her experience with the curriculum in her column for the magazine: Do something
If you live in Texas, there is still time to contact your State Board of Education member about this troubling curriculum before their November vote. Visit this link to find out who represents you, and scroll to the bottom of this page for tips on crafting your email.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
To kick off season 6 of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman take stock of the Supreme Court. There is no religion case on the docket – yet – for this term, but there are several cases that do impact religion. They review the most important things we saw out of last year’s term – from the “Trump docket” to the abortion cases – and they talk about how the Rahimi decision about a gun regulation illustrates the trouble with the Court’s new “history and tradition” test. Plus, this is the last episode before the release of Amanda’s book How to End Christian Nationalism, and they preview the upcoming book tour and how you can participate.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Back together after a tumultuous summer
Amanda talked with Ava Kofman for her feature article in the New York Times Magazine: How Two Billionaire Preachers Remade Texas Politics
Amanda mentioned an article by Russell Gold for Texas Monthly, titled The Billionaire Bully Who Wants to Turn Texas Into a Christian Theocracy
Segment 2 (starting at 08:02): The Supreme Court is back, but why are people still talking about the past term?
Amanda and Holly mentioned the upcoming case of U.S. v. Skrmetti, which will examine gender-affirming care. They talked about previous cases involving the definition of “sex” in Episode 17 of season 1, titled “A landmark case for LGBTQ rights: What’s next for religious liberty?”
Amanda and Holly discussed the intersection of religion and the law in the two abortion cases in Episode 28 of season 5, titled “Conscience protections in SCOTUS abortion cases.”
Read Holly’s column in BJC’s fall magazine, which discusses the impact of the Rahimi case: The Court at a crossroads
Amanda and Holly discussed the Supreme Court’s obsession with history in the context of legislative prayer in the Greece v. Galloway decision in Episode 3 of season 5, titled “SCOTUS is fixated on history. What’s prayer got to do with it?”
Segment 3 (starting 37:37): Come see Amanda in a city near you!
How to End Christian Nationalism is the new book by Amanda Tyler. It releases on October 22, and you can pre-order it now from Amazon, your local bookstore, or anywhere you buy books.
Visit EndChristianNationalism.com for more information on the book and on the book tour, which includes stops in California, Minnesota, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, and more.
Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
As the weather heats up, so does the pace of Supreme Court decisions. On our season 5 finale of Respecting Religion, Amanda and Holly recap some recent decisions and discuss what we can expect in the next month. Religion is still at play in several cases, even if religious legal statutes aren’t the questions being considered. Plus, they look at some recent statements from Supreme Court justices during extracurricular activities and share what those reveal about the justices themselves and the work at the Court, including a rare – and surprising – statement one justice gave directly to the media.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:51): Recent Supreme Court actions
Amanda and Holly discussed the two Supreme Court cases dealing with abortion rights in episode 28 of this season: Conscience protections in SCOTUS abortion cases
Click here to read the Washington Post article tracking big cases this Supreme Court term.
The case upholding the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) is called Consumer Financial Protection Bureau v. Community Financial Services Association of America, Limited. Amanda and Holly mentioned two articles about it:
- Amy Howe’s piece for SCOTUSblog: Supreme Court lets CFPB funding stand
- Steve Vladeck’s piece for One First: How to describe this Court
The Louisiana voting map decision comes from the consolidated cases of Robinson v. Callais and Landry v. Callais.
- Read Amy Howe’s coverage for SCOTUSblog: Court allows Louisiana to move forward with two majority-Black districts
- Read Steve Vladeck’s piece for One First: Louisiana’s Congressional Map Comes Back to the Court
Segment 2 (starting at 09:07): Justices on the stump: Shocking statements and unlikely pairings
Amanda and Holly mentioned recent reporting on appearances by justices of the Supreme Court. The articles they referred to are:
- Justice Kavanaugh on the Presidency, the Court and Taylor Swift by Adam Liptak for The New York Times
- Justice Thomas Denounces ‘the Nastiness and the Lies’ Faced by His Family by Abbie VanSickle for The New York Times
- Justice Alito Warns of Threats to Freedom of Speech and Religion by Adam Liptak for The New York Times
- The Supreme Court seems bitterly divided. Two justices say otherwise. by Ann E. Marimow for The Washington Post
According to reports discussed in this show, Justice Kavanaugh mentioned that the school prayer cases are settled law. School District of Abington Township v. Schempp (1963) and Engel v. Vitale (1962) are commonly called the “school prayer cases,” with the decisions in those cases finding government-sponsored religious exercises unconstitutional in public schools, providing protection for the religious liberty rights of all students. Learn more in this 2013 piece by Holly Hollman.
Amanda and Holly discussed this New York Times story by Jodi Kantor that the American flag outside of Justice Samuel Alito’s home was flown upside down in the days before the inauguration of President Joe Biden. After we recorded this episode, new reporting revealed Justice Alito’s summer house displayed the “Appeal to Heaven” flag in 2023. Read more in this New York Times story by Jodi Kantor, Aric Toler, and Julie Tate: Another Provocative Flag Was Flown at Another Alito Home
To watch the iCivics event featuring Justice Sonia Sotomayor and Justice Amy Coney Barrett, visit this C-SPAN link.
Segment 3 (starting 26:58): A reading recommendation
Amanda’s book is called How to End Christian Nationalism, and it will be released October 22 from Broadleaf Books. Click here for links to pre-order the book.
Learn more about the work of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign by visiting the website.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
LGBTQ rights and religious freedom are often pitted against one another, but they are not mutually exclusive. This episode of Respecting Religion looks at the recent decision by the United Methodist Church to repeal its ban on LGBTQ clergy and same-sex weddings as well as the broader conversation. Holly Hollman is joined by guest co-host Guthrie Graves-Fitzsimmons, BJC Communications Director. He shares some of his personal story, then he and Holly reflect on work bridging differences between LGBTQ rights advocacy and religious groups that oppose LGBTQ protections. They highlight the Respect for Marriage Act as one hallmark of bipartisan consensus building that achieves civil rights protections and safeguards religious liberty.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 1:23): The changing landscape of LGBTQ rights and religious freedom
Learn more about Guthrie Graves-Fitzimmons in his BJC bio.
Find more resources on religious liberty and the LGBTQ community on BJC’s website.
For in-depth information about public opinion on LGBTQ rights among different religious groups, visit the Public Religion Research Institute’s website at this link.
Segment 2 (starting at 5:20): The United Methodist Church lifts ban on LGBTQ clergy
Read coverage from Ruth Graham of The New York Times: United Methodist Church Reverses Ban on Practicing Gay Clergy
Read Guthrie’s MSNBC column: “Why United Methodists’ historic vote means so much to gay Christians like me.”
Segment 3 (starting 16:33): Bridging differences
Holly and Guthrie discussed the 2020 Brookings Institution report “A Time to Heal, A Time to Build,” by E.J. Dionne Jr. and Melissa Rogers.
Respecting Religion has devoted several episodes to the topics discussed in this episode. Listen to Season 4, Episode 7 for more on the Respect for Marriage Act, Season 4, Episode 26 for more on 303 Creative v. Elenis, and Season 1, Episode 17 for more on Bostock v. Clayton County.
Read more about BJC’s reaction to the Obergefell decision in 2015 in this column from Holly Hollman: Obergefell decision does not remove the separation of church and state. You can also access a 2-page resource with frequently asked questions about the decision.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
How do religion and religious freedom arguments interact with cases about abortion access? The legal landscape here is beyond complex, and in this episode, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at how conscience protections were discussed in two recent Supreme Court cases about abortion. There is a deepening religion and policy conversation in our country, and they discuss how that conversation is reflected in these oral arguments – from Church Amendments to the doctrine of preemption.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): U.S. Food and Drug Administration v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine
Amanda and Holly discussed state laws after the Dobbs decision two weeks ago – in episode 26 of season 5: Archaic laws and new theories emerge from state abortion debates
Learn more about the Arizona legislature’s repeal of the 1864 law in this article by Stacey Barchenger and Ray Stern in the Arizona Republic: Arizona abortion ban repeal signed by Gov. Katie Hobbs, but 1864 law will linger for months. What’s next?
Learn more about the 6-week ban on abortions in Florida in this article by Stephanie Colombini for NPR: Florida’s 6-week abortion ban is now in effect, curbing access across the South
We played a series of clips from the oral arguments in U.S. Food and Drug Administration v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, which the Supreme Court heard on March 26, 2024. You can hear the audio at this link. The clips we played featured:
- Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar (from 00:00:48 into the arguments)
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar (from 00:28:31 into the arguments)
- Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar (from 00:29:11 into the argument)
- Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and Attorney Erin Hawley (from 01:16:40 into the argument)
Read an overview of conscience protections from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services at this link.
Segment 2 (starting at 19:26): Moyle v. United States
Moyle v. United States is a consolidated case with Idaho v. United States.
“EMTALA” stands for “Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act.” Read what the American Medical Association says about the case and EMTALA at this link.
We played a series of clips from the oral arguments in Moyle v. United States, which the Supreme Court heard on April 24, 2024. You can hear the audio at this link. The clips we played featured:
- Justice Elena Kagan and Attorney Joshua Turner (from 00:06:09 into the argument)
- Attorney Joshua Turner and Justice Elena Kagan (from 00:08:02 into the argument)
- Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Attorney Joshua Turner (from 00:23:54 into the argument)
- Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Attorney Joshua Turner (from 00:48:43 into the argument)
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
For the 100th episode of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman answer listener questions, ranging from the law surrounding the tax-exempt status of religious institutions to their favorite Supreme Court justices. They also look at some of the big Supreme Court decisions and the shifts on the Court since this podcast began four years ago, sharing some of their favorite and most impactful episodes.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): How did we get to 100 episodes?
The podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism ran in 2019, and it’s available on the BJC Podcast feed, and you can see all of the episodes on this page of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism website.
Holly and Amanda mentioned some of their favorite episodes, including:
- S3, Ep. 21: The live show reacting to the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision
- S4, Ep. 22: Amanda’s experience at the ReAwaken America tour
- S1, Ep. 15: Reacting to President Trump’s photo-op with a Bible in 2020
You can see a list of every single episode at BJConline.org/RespectingReligion
Segment 2 (starting at 19:06): Questions on tax-exempt status, tough conversations, and more
Holly mentioned the 1983 case of Bob Jones University v. United States. You can read the decision here.
For more about the Respect for Marriage Act, check out episode 7 from season 4: Does the Respect for Marriage Act protect religious liberty?
For more on the Johnson Amendment and the way it protects churches and other groups who are eligible for the 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status, visit this page on our website. Amanda and Holly also discussed it a bit on episode 4 of season 2: Grading the Trump administration on religious freedom.
Holly mentioned episode 6 from season 3: Challenging misinformation: How to have productive conversations with friends and family.
Segment 3 (starting at 34:07): Questions on podcast recommendations, favorite Supreme Court justices, and more
The podcasts mentioned by Amanda and Holly were:
Strict Scrutiny
Prosecuting Donald Trump
The Ezra Klein Show
Another Mother Runner
Amicus
Ten Percent Happier
Amanda and Holly discussed being interns at BJC. The internship program is ongoing – learn more about the opportunities by visiting BJConline.org/internships
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The intersection of abortion and religion often grabs headlines, and this episode of Respecting Religion looks at recent developments in two states: Arizona and Indiana. Amanda and Holly discuss an Indiana case that involves free exercise arguments under state law to support abortion, and they examine the impact of Arizona’s 1864 law that criminalizes abortion. Both situations are resulting from the tremendous change in the law after the Dobbs decision in 2022, leading to some unexpected situations.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The Arizona situation
Our next episode will be our 100th episode! It’s your chance to ask Amanda and Holly anything – send in your questions by April 29 to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Amanda and Holly previously discussed the aftermath of the Dobbs decision in episode 4 of season 4, released in October 2022. The show was titled “A religious freedom right to an abortion?”
The New York Times has this helpful resource that shows the differences in the laws regarding abortion in states across the country.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article for Vox written by Nicole Naera: The history of Arizona’s Civil War-era abortion ban
After we recorded this program, the Arizona House voted to repeal the 1864 law, and the Arizona Senate is expected to vote on it next week. Read more in this Washington Post article by Caroline Kitchener and Yvonne Wingett Sanchez.
Segment 2 (starting at 12:12): The Indiana litigation
For a more in-depth discussion of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), check out episode 6 of season 5: RFRA at 30.
Read the opinion from the Indiana Appeals Court and the concurrence at this link.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Some troubling trends at the Supreme Court are starting to affect the legal profession and how students in law school approach the U.S. Constitution. As SCOTUS continues to upend decades of established precedent in church-state law, Amanda and Holly discuss what’s changed since they were in law school and the rapid changes in church-state law itself. They look at the views of legitimacy of the Court, and Holly shares specifically what she sees in her work teaching church-state law at Georgetown University Law Center.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 01:15): Respect for the Supreme Court in law school
Read “The Crisis in Teaching Constitutional Law,” an opinion piece by Jesse Wegman for The New York Times.
Holly mentioned recent episodes of Respecting Religion that covered:
- Religious accommodation in the workplace (episode 26 of season 4 on Groff v. DeJoy)
- The funding of private religious schools with government funds (episode 20 of season 3 on Carson v. Makin)
- Prayer by a coach on the 50-yard-line (episode 21 of season 3 on Kennedy v. Bremerton)
Amanda mentioned the book Deciding to Decide: Agenda Setting in the United States Supreme Court by H.W. Perry.
Segment 2 (starting at 10:51): Turning points, hypocrisy, and partisan muscle
Holy mentioned how SCOTUS uses history and tradition and the case of Greece v. Galloway, which we covered in episode 3 of season 5.
Segment 3 (starting at 21:26): The differences in the Souter/Stevens/O’Connor era and what it’s like in the classroom today
To read more about the Supreme Court religious liberty cases involving Jehovah’s Witnesses, check out this article by Jane G. Rainey published by the Free Speech Center at Middle Tennessee State University.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Hear excerpts from a special event we organized at the University of Southern California on race, religion and citizenship in this episode of Respecting Religion. The Rev. Dr. Joseph Evans and the Rev. Dr. Christopher The brought their unique experiences and expertise to a conversation on religious and racial identity, moderated by the Rev. Dr. Najuma Smith-Pollard. Hear their insights about a theology of democracy, their experiences with racism, how to identify authoritarianism, and what lessons Scripture has for our current climate.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): The event on race, religion and citizenship
The Rev. Dr. Joseph Evans and the Rev. Dr. Christopher The were the speakers for this year’s edition of our annual Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures, titled “Whose country is it anyway?” held April 2 on the campus of the University of Southern California. Their conversation was moderated by the Rev. Dr. Najuma Smith-Pollard. Click on each name to read more about them and their impressive credentials.
Listen to the entire program at this link.
The event was in partnership with USC’s Office of Religious & Spiritual Life, the USC Center for Religion and Civic Culture, and Berkeley School of Theology.
Learn more about BJC’s annual series at BJConline.org/ShurdenLectures.
Segment 2 (starting at 1:45): A theology of democracy, experiences of racism, and a new understanding of The New Colossus
Rev. Dr. The mentioned “warmth of other suns,” giving credit to how Isabel Wilkerson uses the phrase. She is the author of the book The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America’s Great Migration.
Rev. Dr. The mentioned “The New Colossus,” the poem by Emma Lazarus that is inscribed on a plaque in the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. You can read it here.
Segment 3 (starting at 12:29): Authoritarianism and lessons from Scripture
Rev. Dr. Evans mentioned Walter Wink, a theologian who discussed how power structures resist our need for transformation. Learn more about him in his obituary from The New York Times.
Segment 4 (starting at 18:27): Politics and access to power
Dr. Catherine Brekus delivered the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture, which focused on the myth of American “chosenness.” Hear it in episode 23 of season 4, and listen to the panel that followed it on episode 24.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
When former President Donald Trump announced during Holy Week that he was endorsing the “God Bless the USA” Bible, the reaction was swift. But, beyond the punchlines and the obvious concerns, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman discuss why the video is concerning to our current political moment and the continued rise of Christian nationalism. Not all examples are this obvious – what does this mean to those important conversations?
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Why is this a problem?
The New York Times has more about the video and the marketing in this article by By Michael Gold and Maggie Haberman: Trump’s Newest Venture? A $60 Bible.
Segment 2 (starting at 08:11): Reacting to the video pitch
You can watch the video endorsing the Bible at this link on YouTube.
Amanda and Holly talked about using the Bible as a prop and the idea of “divinely inspired” founding documents in episode 21 of this season, titled “But … is it Christian nationalism?”
Dr. Jemar Tisby shared about how he and other authors worked to stop an earlier version of this Bible in an article on his Substack: Three Years Ago We Stopped Harper Collins/Zondervan from Publishing the "God Bless the USA" Bible
Segment 3 (starting at 26:44): Understanding how this is part of a larger political strategy
Holly read from this piece by Michael C. Bender in The New York Times: The Church of Trump: How He’s Infusing Christianity Into His Movement
Amanda discussed her experience attending the ReAwaken America tour in episode 22 of season 4.
Amanda read from this piece by David French in The New York Times: Trump is no Savior
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
There are many religious holidays in the spring, but not all are given the same public acknowledgment – from government-sponsored events to time off from school and work. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman discuss how Christian privilege shows up in how our country recognizes and accommodates certain holidays, as well as how holidays help us understand and celebrate the religious pluralism in our country.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The March Madness of spring break and public school holidays
Access “A Parent’s Guide to Religion in Public Schools” published decades ago by the National PTA and the First Amendment Center with funding from the Freedom Forum at this link on BJC’s website.
Segment 2 (starting at 15:05): Religious holidays and public officials/elected leaders
Read about Dr. Anthea Butler’s experience at the White House St. Patrick’s Day celebration in this reflection on her Substack.
Segment 3 (starting at 24:00): Reflections on Christian privilege
Amanda mentioned her forthcoming book, How to End Christian Nationalism. It releases October 22, and it is available for preorder at endchristiannationalism.com.
Read the story by Kevin Reynolds in the Salt Lake Tribune discussing Muslim players fasting during March Madness, which coincides with Ramadan: BYU doesn’t have to play on Sundays. So should the NCAA better accommodate Muslim athletes during Ramadan?
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Is an American flag in a church sanctuary an example of Christian nationalism? What about faith-based advocacy? Helping voters get to the polls? Saying the Constitution is “divinely inspired”? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman answer some common questions they hear about Christian nationalism, and they talk about the questions we should be asking ourselves.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): What does it mean to determine the level of Christian nationalism?
Learn more about the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, including the statement of principles, at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org. If you are a Christian who agrees with the statement, we encourage you to sign your name!
Segment 2 (starting at 08:23): Answering some political questions about Christian nationalism
Amanda mentioned this recent op-ed by David French in The New York Times: What is Christian Nationalism, Exactly?
Visit this link to access the report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection from BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Amanda mentioned this article by Steven Monacelli for the Daily Dot: A new social network built on a vision of Christian supremacy in America gains traction with GOP politicians
Hear Amanda and Holly’s reaction to President Trump’s 2020 appearance at St. John’s Church with a Bible in episode 15 of our first season: Protests, the president and the photo op with a Bible
Segment 3 (starting at 29:09): Answering some church-related questions about Christian nationalism
Read about the new survey results from PRRI on the support for Christian nationalism at this link.
To learn more about Patriot Churches, read this 2020 article in The Washington Post by Sarah Pulliam Bailey: Seeking power in Jesus’ name: Trump sparks a rise of Patriot Churches
Segment 4 (starting at 38:54): History and civics questions about Christian nationalism
Amanda and Holly spoke about some lawmakers sharing the idea that the Constitution is “divinely inspired” in episode 10 of season 4: A report, a prayer vigil, and a somber anniversary: Two years after January 6
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Get a first-hand account of attending the State of the Union address on this episode. Amanda Tyler talks with Holly Hollman about her experience, providing a new way to think about who represents our country in the room during the president’s address. She shares about her invitation and various discussions with members of Congress about Christian nationalism. Plus, if you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to serve your country by working at a polling place on Election Day, hear about Amanda’s experience in Texas and how you can do the same, helping to ensure free and fair elections for our representatives in D.C.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The cost of speaking out against Christian nationalism
Amanda mentioned this article by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Freethought Caucus’ Huffman invites Christian nationalism critic to State of the Union
Read the report published by BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation on Christian nationalism and the January 6, insurrection.
Click here to watch Rep. Jared Huffman’s floor speech on the dangers of Christian nationalism, which mentions the joint report.
Hear Amanda’s conversation with Rob Reiner and Dan Partland on their film “God & Country” in episode 12 of this season of Respecting Religion
Segment 2 (starting at 08:44): Attending the State of the Union address
Amanda and Rep. Jared Huffman filmed a video together before they went to the State of the Union address. You can watch it on Instagram.
Amanda and Holly discussed the Alabama ruling impacting IVF treatments in the state on episode 18 of this season of Respecting Religion.
Segment 3 (starting at 30:23): Serving as an election worker
Holly spoke with Chris Crawford of Protect Democracy about ways people of faith can be involved in free and fair elections on episode 14 of this season of Respecting Religion.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court declines to hear thousands of cases a year, but one recent denial included a troubling statement from Justice Samuel Alito. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at a case out of Missouri about potential jurors being struck from the jury pool because of their anti-LGBTQ beliefs, and they break down Justice Alito’s 5-page statement that seems to be asking for another case with the same issue at stake. What could this mean for the future, and why is Justice Alito still hung up on the Obergefell v. Hodges decision from 2015?
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): What happened in this case?
Holly mentioned this resource from The Washington Post that shows an update on cases as the term progresses: The Supreme Court Trump-Colorado ruling, and big 2024 decisions to come
Amanda and Holly discussed Donald Trump’s plan to create a task force fighting anti-Christian bias in episode 13 of this current season ‘God Made Trump,’ Biden campaigns at a church, and more news from the campaign trail
Amanda read from this article in The New York Times by Abbie VanSickle describing the factual background of the lawsuit: Justice Alito Renews Criticism of Landmark Ruling on Same-Sex Marriage
Segment 2 (starting at 14:33): Why did Justice Alito write this statement?
You can read Justice Alito’s statement on the denial of cert on page 25 of this PDF document of the order list from the Supreme Court on Feb. 20, 2024.
Amanda mentioned three cases invoked by Justice Alito:
- Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017)
- Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah (1993)
- Carson v. Makin (2022)
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
An alarming ruling from the Alabama Supreme Court is leading to the shutdown of in vitro fertilization clinics, and the concurrence’s use of Scripture and Christian theology is causing additional concerns. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at this troubling ruling, the various religious views on life, and why it’s an issue for a justice to cite the Bible in an opinion.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): What is the Alabama case about?
The Alabama Supreme Court case is called LePage v. Center for Reproductive Medicine. You can read the decision and the concurrence here.
For additional information on the case, listen to the NPR interview with law professor Mary Ziegler in this story: How Alabama’s ruling that frozen embryos are ‘children’ could impact IVF
Amanda and Holly discussed the Dobbs decision in episode 4 of season 4.
Segment 2 (starting at 13:18): The decision and even more-troubling concurrence
Listen to the “On the Media” interview with Matthew D. Taylor: Christian Nationalism is Reshaping Fertility Rights, and Books Dominate at the Oscars
Amanda talked about her experience at the ReAwaken America tour in episode 22 of season 4 of Respecting Religion.
Segment 3 (starting at 31:15): Additional reactions to the opinion
Read the entire piece by Noah Feldman for Bloomberg at this link: Embryos Are Now Children in Alabama. Blame the Supreme Court.
Amanda and Holly discussed the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision in episode 21 of season 3.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Presidents have made broad appeals to our country without dividing along religious belief throughout American history. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at presidential leadership and talk about how our country’s founding documents set up our system of government that does not create a “Christian nation” in any sort of legal sense – rather, it ensures freedom of religion and freedom from a state establishment of religion. They also talk about why people like to claim we are a “Christian nation” and the reasons that is a problematic statement.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Religious freedom at the founding
Learn more about the celebration of the holiday known as Washington’s Birthday from the National Archives.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Peter Smith for the Associated Press: Many believe the founders wanted a Christian America. Some want the government to declare one now. He also wrote this piece with some frequently asked questions.
Amanda mentioned a book she is writing that will come out later this year, which is titled How to End Christian Nationalism.
Watch Holly’s video answering the question “Is America a Christian nation?” at this link.
The Rev. Jennifer Hawks wrote this piece about Article VI for Baptist News Global: How the Constitution’s original religious freedom guarantee almost didn’t happen
Amanda spoke with historian Steven Green in 2019 for this episode of our podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism: We were founded as a Christian nation?
Michael Meyerson is the author of Endowed by our Creator: The Birth of Religious Freedom in America. You can read more about his 2014 lectures – given for the Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and the Separation of Church and State – in this recap.
The BJC Fellows Program is open to all young professionals interested in deepening their historical, legal and theological understanding of religious liberty. The deadline to apply for the 2024 class is March 1 – visit BJConline.org/Fellows to learn more and apply.
Segment 2 (starting at 24:21): Words from previous presidents
Click here to visit BJC’s website page with a few quotes from Founders, presidents, and Baptists about the relationship between church and state. The quotes include links or citations to the original source material.
Segment 3 (starting at 33:20): What now?
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
There is a novel – and concerning – development in public education and the relationship between the institutions of church and state: Oklahoma and Guam have proposed religious charter schools. Litigation has already started. But, what is a religious charter school, and why is the idea such a problem? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman say they are illegal and that they challenge some basic assumptions.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): What are religious charter schools, and what’s the problem?
Holly and Amanda discussed the trouble with school vouchers in episode 8 and episode 9 of this season.
In an order on his way out the door, former Oklahoma Attorney General John O’Connor issued an opinion that said religious charter schools were ok, but then new Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond reversed that guidance. Read Don Byrd’s article for BJC’s website about the Oklahoma and Guam charter schools: Guam joins Oklahoma in approving government-funded religious charter schools after legislature overrides governor’s veto
Segment 2 (starting at 12:39): The lawsuits in Oklahoma trying to stop this action
You can download the petition for the lawsuit by Oklahoma Attorney General Genter Drummond in the Oklahoma Supreme Court at this link on the website of the Oklahoma State Courts Network.
The lawsuit brought by the ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and others is called OKPLAC, Inc. v. Statewide Virtual Charter School Board. Read the Complaint and learn more on the websites of the ACLU and of Americans United. OKPLAC is the “Oklahoma Parent Legislative Advocacy Coalition.”
Segment 3 (starting at 18:43): State and constitutional questions about charter schools
Visit this resource from the U.S. Department of Education to learn more about charter schools.
The trinity of recent Supreme Court cases mentioned were: Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017) Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020) Carson v. Makin (2022)
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Much is said and assumed about the religious landscape of Black America, but it’s more diverse than the common narratives. Holly Hollman speaks with Dr. Sabrina E. Dent and Dr. Anthony Pinn about misconceptions and how they brought together Black Church leaders and Black nontheists for key conversations. Tune in for this open and honest conversation about how we can work across racial and religious lines to help all communities thrive.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): Misconceptions about the religious landscape of Black America
Dr. Anthony Pinn is the Agnes Cullen Arnold Professor of Humanities at Rice University, and he’s also the Founding Director of Rice’s Center for Engaged Research and Collaborative Learning. He is the author/editor of more than 35 books, and he is also director of research for the Institute for Humanist Studies. Read Dr. Pinn’s full biography here.
Dr. Sabrina E. Dent is the director of the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation, which is the home of our project on Race and Religious Freedom. Learn more about the Center on our website and in this video. She is the editor and contributing author of the book African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. Read Dr. Dent’s full biography here.
“(Dis)belief: Reimagining the Religious Landscape of Black America” was the topic for the 2023 Religious Freedom Mobile Institute. Click here to read about it in a piece by Jaziah Masters, Research Fellow for the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation.
Segment 2 (starting at 20:13): The connections between religious freedom and racial justice
BJC’s “Religious Freedom Has Been White Too Long: Voices of Black Scholars” was BJC’s 2021 lecture featuring Dr. Anthony Pinn, Dr. Nicole Myers Turner, Dr. Teresa L. Smallwood, and Dr. David Goatley. Watch the event at this link and read a recap on our website.
James Baldwin wrote in The New York Times on Feb. 2, 1969, that the bulk of the country’s white population is beyond hope of moral rehabilitation. “They have been white, if I may so put it, too long.”
Segment 3 (starting at 30:23): Key moments from the conference
As mentioned, Dr. Dent and Dr. Pinn will be co-editors of a forthcoming book of essays from the participants in the conference. Keep up with BJC and the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation for the latest!
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What is the role of churches and other houses of worship in protecting democracy? This topic usually comes up because of bad actors that overstep into partisanship, but today’s show looks at how faith communities can help our elections run smoothly. Holly Hollman speaks with Chris Crawford of Protect Democracy – a nonprofit, cross-ideological organization that has a new playbook to help faith communities ensure “all eligible voters can access a ballot and every valid vote is counted.” Learn more about how people of faith can love their neighbors and take active roles in protecting our system of government.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:45): Working across differences without papering over them
Read more about Chris Crawford at this link.
Protect Democracy and Interfaith America partnered to help faith communities to serve their communities during the 2024 election. Click here to access the Faith in Elections Playbook, and learn more about Protect Democracy at this link.
Protect Democracy’s guide for recognizing authoritarianism is available at this link.
Segment 2 (starting at 11:49): The Faith in Elections Playbook
Chris Crawford mentioned A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy. Learn more about their work on their website.
Chris Crawford mentioned PowerThePolls.org as a resource to learn more about being a poll worker.
Segment 3 (starting at 31:03): Religious freedom and protecting our democracy
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Now that the first votes have been cast in the presidential primaries, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at some of the troubling statements and activities on the campaign trail concerning the role of religion and religious freedom – from both Democrats and Republicans. While candidates are – and should be – free to talk about the ways their faith inspires them, there are some red lines when it comes to politicking in houses of worship with tax-exempt resources or using political power as a way to impose religion on others.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): What makes someone “religious” according to voters?
Amanda and Holly mentioned the following articles:
- Trump’s biggest Iowa gains are in evangelical areas, smallest wins in cities by By Dan Keating, Adrian Blanco and Clara Ence Morse for The Washington Post
- Trump Is connecting with a different type of evangelical voter By Ruth Graham and Charles Homans for The New York Times
- Most Republicans think Donald Trump is a person of faith. We asked why by Samuel Benson for Deseret News
- There's a seed of truth in the 'God Made Trump' ad. But his acolytes don't see it. by Guthrie Graves-Fitzsimmons for MSNBC.com. It includes a link to the “God Made Trump” campaign video
Amanda and Holly discussed the “God Made a Fighter” video for the 2022 gubernatorial campaign of Ron DeSantis in episode 6 of season 4: Evaluating Christian nationalism as a campaign strategy.
Amanda and Holly discussed the ReAwaken America tour in episode 22 of season 4.
Read more about Speaker Mike Johnson and Steve Bannon debating “God’s will” in this article by Mark Wingfield for Baptist News Global: Mike Johnson and Steve Bannon spar over whether it is ‘God’s will’ that Joe Biden is president
Segment 2 (starting at 23:05): A war on Christians? Trump’s promises if he returns to office
Holly mentioned this piece by Meryl Kornfield, Colby Itkowitz, Hannah Knowles and Marianne LeVine for The Washington Post: Ordained by God: Trump’s legal problems galvanize Iowa evangelicals
Read more about former President Donald Trump’s promises if he returns to office in this pice by Sarah Posner for MSNBC.com: Trump just promised an authoritarian ‘task force’ to impose Christian ideology
Segment 3 (starting at 31:47): President Biden at Mother Emanuel Church
Amanda mentioned this piece by Ken Macon for MSNBC.com on President Biden’s appearance at Mother Emanuel AME Church: It’s protesters, not politicians, who keep the history of Mother Emanuel AME alive
BJC has a one-page explainer of how houses of worship and other religious nonprofits can how to use their prophetic voice in the political process while maintaining their 501(c)(3) tax status. Click here to access the PDF, called “Advocates, not partisans.”
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What is the cost of speaking out against Christian nationalism? In this episode, Amanda Tyler talks with Rob Reiner and Dan Partland, two people behind a new film that discusses the dangers of Christian nationalism to the country, to the faith, and to pluralism. They share candidly about what they learned while making “God & Country,” the cost for Christians who are speaking out against the political ideology, and what new conversations they are hoping to create with this film.
SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:35): Rob Reiner and Dan Partland on Christian nationalism
“God & Country” will be in theaters on February 16. Learn more at GodAndCountryTheMovie.com.
The phrase “separation of church and state” is not in the U.S. Constitution, but the concept is laid out several times, including Article VI’s prohibition on any religious test for office, the First Amendment’s prohibition of a government establishment of religion, and the First Amendment’s guarantee of the free exercise of religion. Read more in Brent Walker’s “Top 5 Myths of the Separation of Church and State.”
Learn more about the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign – a project BJC began in 2019 – by visiting ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Segment 2 (starting at 20:58): Post-screening Q&A with Partland and Reiner
BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation released a comprehensive report on the role of Christian nationalism in the January 6 attack on the Capitol. You can access it here.
Dan Partland mentioned The Power Worshippers, a book by Katherine Stewart on the rise of religious nationalism. It serves as a basis for the movie.
Segment 3 (starting at 41:18): Closing
Michelle Boorstein covered the screening for The Washington Post in this article: ‘God & Country’ film spotlights Christian nationalism’s threat to democracy
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
In honor of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, we look back at the history of the holiday and the international context at the time of its first official celebration. On today’s podcast, hear from Coretta Scott King, speaking just months after the country’s first commemoration of the holiday in 1986. After Dr. King’s assassination in 1968, she led the charge to establish her husband’s birthday as a national holiday. In this presentation, Mrs. King talks about the first celebration, plans for future celebrations, and some of her work promoting peace and freedom around the world.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:36): The first and second celebration of Martin Luther King Jr. Day
Mrs. Coretta Scott King’s speech is from BJC’s 20th National Religious Liberty Conference, held in October 1986.
Read the biography of Coretta Scott King on the website of the King Center at this link.
The theme for the 2024 King Holiday Observance is ‘Shifting the Cultural Climate through the Study and Practice of Kingian Nonviolence.’ Visit the website of the King Center to learn more, including a list of different ways you can honor the day.
The Progressive National Baptist Convention was the denominational home of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Read more about their history at this link on their website.
“The King Center” is the name commonly used for the Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, which was established by Mrs. King in 1968.
Segment 2 (starting at 06:18): International work for nonviolence
Segment 3 (starting at 18:09): Hopes and plans for future celebrations
Segment 4 (starting at 23:26): Closing
Click here to listen to a presentation from former Rep. Barbara Jordan during this same 1986 event, which we presented in episode 7 of this season.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Justice Sandra Day O’Connor showed a thoughtful approach toward religious liberty issues during her time on the bench, upholding both the Free Exercise Clause and the Establishment Clause. Paying tribute to her soon after her passing on December 1, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman remember Justice O’Connor’s contributions and talk about her legacy, sharing personal reflections as well as wisdom from Justice O’Connor that holds true today. They also look at her controversial endorsement test and how the Supreme Court has shifted – both the law and in terms of public opinion – after her retirement. Amanda and Holly also take a moment to share what we learned about you, our listeners, from this year’s Spotify Wrapped.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The life of Justice Sandra Day O’Connor
Here are a few remembrances of Justice Sandra Day O’Connor:
- Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, lauded as “a human being, extraordinary,” lies in repose at the court by Mark Walsh for SCOTUSblog
- Click here for the entire “In Memoriam” section on SCOTUSblog
- Sandra Day O’Connor, First Woman on the Supreme Court, Is Dead at 93 – The New York Times’ obituary by Linda Greenhouse
- Justice O’Connor’s official Supreme Court bio
- Click here to see the online version of the Supreme Court exhibit on Justice O’Connor’s life
Justice O’Connor’s funeral was a private event at the Washington National Cathedral, but it is available for the public to view on the Cathedral’s YouTube page.
Segment 2 (starting at 15:41): Justice O’Connor on church-state cases
Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor leaves legacy of civic-minded church-state jurisprudence by Don Byrd for BJC’s website
Amanda and Holly mentioned the following cases:
- Board of Education v. Mergens (1990)
- Lynch v. Donnelly (1984)
- McCreary County, Ky., v. ACLU (2005) was the Ten Commandments case with Justice O’Connor’s famous concurrence. Click here to learn more about the two Ten Commandments cases and decisions from a column Holly wrote in 2005.
Segment 3 (starting at 26:49): The ongoing impact of Justice O’Connor
Amanda and Holly mentioned that Justice O’Connor was one of the authors of the plurality opinion in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992)
Amanda and Holly discuss this article from Linda Greenhouse for The New York Times: “What Sandra Day O’Connor got wrong”
Segment 4 (starting at 35:31): Who are your fellow listeners?
See our Spotify Wrapped on Instagram at this link.
Our most popular podcast on Spotify in 2023 was Episode 22 of Season 4, discussing the ReAwaken America tour. Our most shared one was Episode 23 of Season 4 on the myth of American “chosenness.”
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Use this special link to support these conversations, and thank you for listening!
In part two of our conversation on school vouchers, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at who really wants the troublesome programs, and why. They discuss how court decisions are chipping away at constitutional boundaries and dive into the policy debates and political fights over school vouchers that are pitting communities against each other. Plus, they share the origins of some of the language used in these conversations and why Texas – surprisingly – hasn’t passed a voucher program.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Analyzing Zelman and cases chipping away at constitutional boundaries
Listen to part one of this conversion in episode 8 of season 5.
Holly and Amanda discuss the ruling in the 2002 case of Zelman v. Simmons-Harris. You can read the opinion and dissent here.
They mention a trilogy of cases that came later – click the case name for more information, including podcast episodes:
Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017) Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020) Carson v. Makin (2022)
Segment 2 (starting at 06:04): Policy debates and political fights
Holly and Amanda mentioned the following articles:
- GOP states are embracing vouchers. Wealthy parents are benefitting. by Andrew Atterbury for Politico
- ‘School choice’ developed as a way to protect segregation and abolish public schools by Nancy MacLean for The Washington Post in 2021
- Rural resistance to statewide school vouchers by Deven Carlson for Brookings
- Are school vouchers inevitable? was the headline of the article by Robert T. Garrett on the front page of the Dallas Morning News
- “Our public school system is our town”: Why this rural Republican is voting against school vouchers By Brian Lopez and Patrick Svitek for The Texas Tribune
Amanda and Holly discussed Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s push for school vouchers in episode 1 of this season.
Learn more about Pastors for Texas Children and their work countering vouchers by visiting their website.
Segment 3: (starting at 24:00): Additional resources on vouchers
Here are some additional resources from BJC on school vouchers:
- U.S. House rejects nationwide school voucher amendment 311-113, while states continue to enact voucher programs by Don Byrd (March 2023)
- Voucher-funded religious education: A threat to religious liberty byJennifer Hawks (February 2020)
- School vouchers threaten religious autonomy by Jennifer Hawks (March 2015)
You can also access additional resources on religion and public schools at this link on our website.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
School voucher programs across the country seek to divert taxpayer money to religious schools, which raises significant concerns for religious freedom advocates. In part one of this two-part episode, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman explore the problematic issue of school vouchers. They talk about the various iterations of vouchers and the many issues they can create, including their coercive nature. Plus, they look at the first time the Supreme Court upheld a voucher program and what that ruling actually says.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): What is the problem with the government funding of religion?
Amanda and Holly talked about the Texas chaplain bill in episode 5: An alarming push to put chaplains in public schools
Segment 2 (starting at 12:33): What are school vouchers?
Segment 3: (starting at 19:37): Exploring Zelman and the chain of causation
Holly and Amanda review the ruling in the 2002 case of Zelman v. Simmons-Harris. You can read the opinion and dissent here.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
American trailblazer Barbara Jordan delivered a powerful speech on the role of churches in shaping public policy at a BJC event in 1986. We’re bringing you this special presentation because her words resonate for our political climate today. Congresswoman Jordan notes that the institutional separation of church and state must be maintained, but that doesn’t mean the two can’t interact. She gives a strong case for Christian citizenship and being active in the policy realm. Plus, her wide-ranging Q&A covers nuclear conflicts, the “wall of separation” metaphor, and more.
SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:34): Barbara Jordan’s 1986 speech on the church and public policy
Barbara Jordan’s speech is from BJC’s 20th National Religious Liberty Conference, held in October 1986.
Learn more about Barbara Jordan from the following sources:
Biography from the Barbara Jordan Center
Biography from the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture
Article about Barabara Jordan written by William Broyles and published by Texas Monthly (1976)
Barbara Jordan’s obituary in The New York Times, written by Francis X. Clines (1996)
During her speech, Congresswoman Jordan mentions the letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists (1802). You can read it on the website of the Library of Congress.
Segment 2 (starting at 23:26): Q&A on nuclear conflict, the “wall of separation,” advocacy, and more
The audience members who asked questions did not have microphones, so we just shared the host’s repetition of questions in this segment. In two instances, Barbara Jordan repeated the question herself (at 32:22 and 33:58).
Segment 3 (starting at 40:29): Wrapping up today’s show
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Thirty years ago today, President Bill Clinton signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) into law. It was a monumental event in religious liberty law at the time, and it remains part of an even more complex legal landscape of religious exemptions today. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at the standard set by RFRA and discuss how the law has been used in cases dealing with issues ranging from sacramental drug use to application of health insurance regulations. They discuss the non-controversial applications of RFRA, too, and the search for win-win solutions to complicated situations that arise in a religiously pluralistic society.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The need for and passage of RFRA
Learn more about the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) on BJC’s website: BJConline.org/RFRA
Holly wrote a column on RFRA for Word&Way’s “A Public Witness” newsletter, and you can read it here: Revisiting RFRA 30 years later
Read the text of the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act at this link.
Amanda mentioned these two “high water mark” cases in the period before 1990: Sherbert v. Verner (1963) and Wisconsin v. Yoder (1972).
The 1990 Employment Division v. Smith is the case often known as the “peyote case.” We played audio from Justice Antonin Scalia reading the opinion of the Court from the bench, which you can listen to and read at this link.
Watch the signing ceremony for RFRA on November 16, 1993, at this link on the YouTube channel of the William J. Clinton Presidential Library.
Holly mentioned this printed resource available on our website, produced for the 20th anniversary of RFRA.
Segment 2 (starting at 14:16): Twists and turns of RFRA over 30 years
Amanda mentioned the 1997 case that struck down RFRA as applied to the states: City of Boerne v. Flores.
The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000 (RLUIPA) has the same standard as RFRA, but it has not been the subject of so many controversies.
Holly and Amanda mentioned three other RFRA cases: Gonzales v. O Centro Espírita Beneficente União do Vegetal in 2006 (also known as the “UDV” case), Tanzin v. Tanvir in 2020, and Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores in 2014.
Holly wrote about the application of RFRA to corporations in light of the Hobby Lobby decision in 2014: Examining RFRA in light of Hobby Lobby
J. Brent Walker, former executive director of BJC at the time, wrote about the Hobby Lobby decision in 2014: Exploring Hobby Lobby’s narrow victory
Segment 3 (starting at 32:28): The state of RFRA today
Here are additional resources from BJC providing more context on the application of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act:
Podcasts:
- S1, Ep. 06: Stay-at-home orders, religious freedom and RFRA (2020)
- S1, Ep. 12: Not a charm: Contraceptive mandate returns to the Supreme Court for the third time (2020)
- S3, Ep. 03: What’s going on with religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccine mandates? (2021)
Video:
- Watch this video of former BJC General Counsel Oliver “Buzz” Thomas discussing the origins of RFRA
Resources from BJC on cases:
- Zubik v. Burwell (2016)
- Tanzin v. Tanvir (2020)
Additional reading:
- Do states need religious freedom legislation? By J. Brent Walker, 2015
- Contraceptive mandate oral arguments shed light on underreported issues by Holly Hollman, 2014
- RFRA’s constitutionality called into question by J. Brent Walker, 2014
- RFRA at 20: A retrospective by Holly Hollman, 2013
- Remembering the origins of RFRA by J. Brent Walker, 2013
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A new Texas law allows public schools to replace counselors with chaplains. In this wee’s episode, discover why Texas chaplains are voicing their opposition. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman discuss SB 763 and their concerns about government-sponsored proselytization in public schools. They discuss the group behind this law and how Texans are resisting its implementation in their local communities. School districts have until March 1, 2024 to vote on creating chaplain programs. The only qualification to serve as a “chaplain” is to pass a criminal background check.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 1:55): The group behind the push for this law
The Texas Tribune’s Robert Downen and Brian Lopez looked into Rocky Malloy’s troubling work: Key supporter of Texas school chaplain bill has pushed for evangelism in schools
Segment 2 (starting at 7:07): Texas chaplains respond to this law
You can read the letter from chaplains opposing chaplains in public schools at this link.
Read a story about Texans opposing the school chaplain law in the Dallas Morning News, an op-ed from two Texas clergy in the Austin American-Statesman, or the transcript of a radio segment that aired on National Public Radio.
Segment 3 (starting at 20:10): What can you do?
Find more information about how to get involved on the BJC website.
If you’re a chaplain living in or educated in Texas, add your name to the letter from Texas chaplains here.
The petition for Texans of faith opposing law can be accessed here.
The petition for people of faith across the country opposing any attempt to bring public school chaplains to their state can be found here.
Advocates who want information about how to make a difference in their Texas school district can fill out this form.
A short video about the law and how-tos on advocacy to school boards is available on our YouTube channel.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Get an inside look at the U.S. House of Representatives and the challenges of Christian nationalism in this week’s episode. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman take you behind-the-scenes of Amanda’s testimony to Congress, held on the same day lawmakers elected Rep. Mike Johnson, R-La., to be Speaker of the House. They share key moments from the hearing on religious freedom around the world, including a powerful moment with Rep. Maxwell Frost, D-Fla. Plus, they discuss troubling statements from Speaker Johnson, his embrace of Christian nationalism, and how he might navigate his new role.
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Returning to testify before Congress
Read Amanda’s written testimony at this link.
Watch a portion of Amanda’s opening statement at this link, and watch the entire hearing on the YouTube channel of the U.S. House Oversight’s Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs.
Learn more about the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom here. It is also known by its initials USCIRF, pronounced “You-Surf” in conversation.
The United Nations has a website page devoted to the 75th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which will be Dec 10, 2023.
Read more about BJC’s advocacy fighting the travel ban here.
Segment 2 (starting at 17:34): Questions from Congress and an exchange with Rep. Maxwell Frost
You can watch the exchange with Amanda and Rep. Frost at this link.
Segment 3 (starting at 30:08): Speaker Mike Johnson and Christian nationalism
Amanda is quoted in this article by Nick Mordowanec for Newsweek: Mike Johnson Uses Bible to Justify ‘Aggression,’ Urges Christians to Fight
Amanda is quoted in this article by Peter Smith for the Associated Press: Christian conservatives cheer one of their own as Mike Johnson assumes Congress’ most powerful seat
Brian Kaylor and Jeremy Fuzy of Word&Way wrote this piece on Speaker Mike Johnson for the “A Public Witness” newsletter: Christian nationalism in the Speaker’s chair
Dr. Kristin Du Mez did a Q&A with Politico’s Katelyn Fossett about Speaker Johnson: ‘He Seems to Be Saying His Commitment Is to Minority Rule’
Dr. Andrew Whitehead and Dr. Samuel Perry wrote this piece for TIME magazine: The Christian Nationalism of Speaker Mike Johnson
Amanda mentioned Dr. Walter B. “Buddy” Shurden’s writings on Baptist history. Click here to read a copy of his “How We Got That Way” presentation on Baptists and religious liberty.
Holly mentioned this piece in The New Yorker by David Kirpatrick on ADF: The next targets for the group that overturned Roe
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Has the Supreme Court abandoned the Establishment Clause test for some sort of “history” test when applying the law? Today, we’re looking at a 2014 Supreme Court case that continues to have major implications on Supreme Court decisions: Greece v. Galloway. Amanda and Holly review this sharply divided decision on legislative prayer, explore the differences in the prayer practice of Congress and the practice in local town meetings, and look at the ongoing impact of this decision, including how it was used in the Kennedy v. Bremerton ruling in 2022.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:51): What’s the difference between legislative prayer and prayer at local town meetings?
Amanda and Holly discuss the decision in Kennedy v. Bremerton on episode 21 of season 3.
Learn more about Greece v. Galloway on our page dedicated to the case, available at this link. It includes a link to our friend-of-the-court brief and other resources.
BJC’s Nan Futrell Liles wrote about the constitutional anomaly in the 1983 case of Marsh v. Chambers in this column from 2013: A legal look at local government prayer
Segment 2 (starting at 20:56): The decision and the dissent in Greece v. Galloway
Read Justice Anthony Kennedy’s decision in Greece v. Galloway and Justice Elena Kagan’s dissent at this link.
Segment 3 (starting at 30:41): The problems with this new ‘history’ test
Read the Kennedy v. Bremerton opinion and dissent at this link.
Amanda and Holly mentioned two recent disputes about prayer in local government meetings. Here are news articles covering them:
- Alabama: Anti-LGBTQ comments in Mobile raise questions about prayer before public meetings by John Sharp for AL.com
- Connecticut: Enfield school board meetings no longer begin with prayer following complaint by Susan Danseyar and Eric Bedner for CT Insider.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What happens when you talk about Christian nationalism with the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, a historian who wrote a book on white evangelical racism, and the lead organizer of Christians Against Christian Nationalism? Find out as we bring you portions of a panel conversation recorded in September during the Texas Tribune Festival. The Rev. Dr. Bart Barber, Dr. Anthea Butler, and Amanda Tyler talk about Christian nationalism’s connection to the January 6 attack, Baptist history, American history, Christian citizenship, and much more. You might hear surprising areas of agreement in this honest, in-depth, and animated conversation.
Segment 1 (starting at 02:35): Introduction to today’s show
We are playing excerpts from a conversation from the Texas Tribune Festival, recorded on September 22, 2023.
The participants are:
- Amanda Tyler, executive director of BJC, lead organizer of Christians Against Christian Nationalism, and co-host of Respecting Religion
- Rev. Dr. Bart Barber, president of the Southern Baptist Convention and pastor of First Baptist Church of Farmersville, Texas
- Dr. Anthea Butler, the Geraldine R. Segal Professor in American Social Thought and chair of the Religious Studies Department at the University of Pennsylvania. She is the author of White Evangelical Racism: The Politics of Morality in America
- Moderator Robert Downen, Texas Tribune reporter covering democracy and threats to it; previously, he covered religion at the Houston Chronicle
Amanda shared a video clip of the conversation on her X account, which you can view here.
The Bloudy Tenet of Persecution was written by Roger Williams in 1644.
Segment 2 (starting at 11:59): The overlaps of Christian nationalism
Read more about the push in Texas to install public school “chaplains” at this link: BJConline.org/publicschoolchaplains
Segment 3 (starting at 19:24): The draw of Christian nationalism and Christian involvement in politics
Dr. Butler’s book is White Evangelical Racism: The Politics of Morality in America.
You can read the Southern Baptist Convention’s statement of faith at this link. Article XVII is about religious liberty.
Segment 4 (starting at 31:23): Christian nationalism in churches and in politics
Read the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement and learn more about the campaign at this link.
Segment 5 (starting at 37:21): Christian nationalism and the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol
Read the report on Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection at this link. It was produced by BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and features contributions from Amanda Tyler and Dr. Anthea Butler, along with many others.
Read the letter submitted to the January 6 Select Committee from Christian leaders at this link.
Watch Rep. Jared Huffman’s floor speech about Christian nationalism here.
Watch Amanda Tyler’s testimony to Congress on Christian nationalism here. She discusses it in episode 9 of season 4 of Respecting Religion.
Segment 6 (starting at 43:51): Differences in Christian nationalism and faith-based advocacy
Read the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” at this link.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Is the Supreme Court immune from public pressure? What is the role of the government when it comes to nondiscrimination laws, gender identity, and posting Scripture? As we begin season 5 of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman take live questions from an audience on these topics and more. Hear their updates from the summer as they share what we can expect from this new Supreme Court term, as well as how decisions are impacting our country at all levels.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 1:18): Welcome back for season 5
Amanda spoke about the role of religious nationalism in the Israel-Gaza War this week at a church in Pennsylvania during a previously-scheduled talk on Christian nationalism. “I believe God weeps at the sight of God’s children killing one another, and God yearns for peace,” she said. You can watch her remarks here.
Amanda and Holly discussed the decisions in Groff v. DeJoy and 303 Creative v. Elenis in our season 4 finale.
Read Holly’s column on Groff: The Supreme Court got something right on religion
Read more reactions to the Supreme Court’s decision striking down race-conscious college admissions in this article from BJC’s fall magazine, including the statement from the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation.
Holly talked about the new Supreme Court term in this article by Pamela Manson for UPI: Religious liberty cases could land on Supreme Court docket this term
Amanda mentioned this op-ed she wrote for CNN: New Texas law deprives families of religious liberty rights
Read more about Amanda’s move to Texas in her recent column: Faith freedom across the country
Segment 2 (starting at 12:00): Questions from our audience
The first question referred to remarks Justice Samuel Alito made about supposed hostility to religion in a 2022 speech, which you can watch here.
This episode was recorded during Banned Books Week, which took place from October 1-7. Learn more on the website of the American Library Association.
Learn more about the troubling law in Texas requiring school boards to vote on creating a “chaplain” program and how you can take action on our website at BJConline.org/publicschoolchaplains
Amanda mentioned this statement from the current and former leaders of Texas Baptists denouncing “School Choice Sunday.” Read more in this article by Ken Camp for the Baptist Standard: BGCT leaders call Gov. Abbott’s appeal ‘out of bounds’
Amanda and Holly had an in-depth discussion on the Respect for Marriage Act in episode 7 of season 4.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Season 5 of the Respecting Religion podcast launches in October 2023! Tune in as BJC's Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman discuss the Supreme Court, the continued rise of Christian nationalism, and a multitude of current issues impacting faith freedom for all.
Here's a look at a few of the topics covered in season 4, including the ReAwaken America tour, federal regulations about religious expression in school, the National Prayer Breakfast, and various ways the two religion clauses of the First Amendment impact our life and protect the institutional separation of church and state. You can watch this trailer on YouTube at this link: https://youtu.be/MwnSSS6rGfs?feature=shared
You can find all episodes of Respecting Religion -- including transcripts -- at RespectingReligion.org or BJConline.org/respectingreligion.
The Supreme Court waited until the last two days of its term to release two decisions with religious liberty implications. On this season 4 finale of the Respecting Religion podcast, Amanda and Holly look at the unanimous clarifying decision in Groff v. DeJoy and the deeply regressive decision in 303 Creative v. Elenis. They discuss the implications of both of these decisions, noting the conspicuous lack of snark in Justice Samuel Alito’s Groff decision and Justice Neil Gorsuch’s defensive attempt to make his big decision seem not all that remarkable.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The clarifying decision in Groff v. DeJoy
This season, Amanda and Holly previewed the Groff v. DeJoy case in episode 17 and reviewed the oral arguments in episode 19.
Holly released this statement after the decision on June 29, which was mentioned in this article from SCOTUSblog: Justices rule in favor of evangelical postal worker.
Read the decision by Justice Samuel Alito and concurrence by Justice Sonia Sotomayor at this link.
For more resources, visit BJC’s page on the case: BJConline.org/Groff.
Segment 2 (starting at 13:08): The problems with the 303 Creative v. Elenis decision
Amanda and Holly discussed the oral arguments for 303 Creative v. Elenis in episode 8 – an episode we titled “hypotheticals, reeducation, and a preemptive claim.”
Read the opinion by Justice Neil Gorsuch and the dissent by Justice Sonia Sotomayor at this link.
Segment 3 (starting at 38:55): Saying farewell to season four
Thank you to our listeners and to everyone who contributes to this program. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Visit our website for transcripts of episodes throughout season four: https://bjconline.org/respectingreligion/
It happens in pretty much every administration, but what do you know about federal guidelines on religion in public schools? Holly and Amanda discuss the new release from the Biden administration outlining the different rights of students and teachers, and they share how some are misinterpreting the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision to open the door to more government-sponsored religious exercises. They also look at what we saw happen at the end of the Texas Legislature’s session in relation to bills that would impact religious freedom, and they review this week’s alarming news that an Oklahoma board voted to fund a religious public charter school.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): What should we pay attention to in the new guidance on religion in public schools?
Amanda and Holly discussed the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision in our season finale last year (season 3, ep. 21). You can read BJC’s brief and see additional resources at BJConline.org/Bremerton.
You can read Holly’s column on the new federal guidelines in our summer magazine: Good news on the religious freedom frontlines
Read the new guidelines on prayer and religious expression in public schools on the Department of Education’s website. You can watch remarks from Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona on YouTube.
Amanda and Holly discussed this piece by Linda Wertheimer published by The New Republic: Inside the Christian legal campaign to return prayer to public schools. You can also read it online via The Hechinger Report.
Segment 2 (starting at 20:43): Texas update
Amanda and Holly discussed the proposed Ten Commandments legislation in Texas on episode 20 and episode 21 of this season.
Holly and Amanda mentioned this piece by Robert Downen for TheTexas Tribune: Unlicensed religious chaplains may counsel students in Texas’ public schools after lawmakers OK proposal
They also mentioned this piece by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Meet the activists who spearheaded the Texas chaplains bill
Segment 3 (starting at 26:53): New news out of Oklahoma
Amanda Tweeted her response – and the response of Oklahoma’s attorney general – after the approval of the first-ever religious charter school.
Holly mentioned this piece by Sarah Mervosh for The New York Times: Oklahoma Approves First Religious Charter School in the U.S.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What does the myth of American “chosenness” mean for different communities and the rise of Christian nationalism? Episcopal Bishop and Cherokee nation member Carol Gallagher, Baptist minister Rev. Darrell Hamilton, and Dr. Michael Hoberman, a scholar of early American Jewish literature and culture, engage in a conversation moderated by the Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley, a minister and professor of gender studies and ethnic studies. Dr. Catherine Brekus of Harvard Divinity School joins them, too, as they react to her lecture about how the myth of “chosenness” leads to much of the religious nationalism in our country today, including how scriptures were used to justify colonialism.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:40): Context for this panel
Hear Dr. Catherine Brekus’ presentation in episode 23, or watch it online.
Meet our panelists:
The Rt. Rev. Carol Gallagher, Ph.D. serves as the assistant bishop in the Episcopal Church’s Diocese of Massachusetts. An enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation, Bishop Gallagher previously served the diocese as a regional canon. Before that, starting in 2014, she served as assistant bishop in the Diocese of Montana, developing relationships with Native leaders and congregations there; educating and training clergy and lay leaders on issues of race, gender and inclusion; and leading the Task Force on Native Issues.
Dr. Michael Hoberman teaches American literature at Fitchburg State University. He is a graduate of Reed College and earned his Ph.D. from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. His previous books include A Hundred Acres of America: The Geography of Jewish American Literary History and New Israel/New England: Jews and Puritans in Early America.
The Rev. Darrell Hamilton is an ordained Baptist minister and graduate from Wake Forest School of Divinity, where he earned his Master of Divinity in 2017. He earned his degree in Political Science from the University of Central Oklahoma in 2012. Currently, the Rev. Hamilton serves at the First Baptist Church in Jamaica Plain as Administrative Pastor and as Protestant Chaplain at Babson College. The Rev. Hamilton was a BJC intern in spring 2016.
The Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley (moderator) is an Assistant Professor of Gender Studies and Ethnic Studies at the University of Utah. During the 2022-2023 academic year, she is the Research Fellow at Old North Illuminated in Boston. Old North Illuminated is the secular 501(c)(3) that preserves the Old North Church and interprets its history. Her research, teaching, and writing consider the themes of historical memory, race, religion, gender, and abolition. Jaimie is an ordained minister whose ordination is recognized by the American Baptist Churches USA. The Rev. Dr. Crumley is a member of the BJC Board of Directors and of the 2016 class of BJC Fellows.
This presentation was the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, an annual lecture series sponsored by BJC. It took place at Old North Church in Boston.
Segment 2 (starting at 1:39): The panel conversation
You can also watch the panel at this link.
During the conversation, Dr. Crumley mentioned this piece by Dr. Brekus on American “chosenness.”
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
How does the myth of America being a “chosen” nation lead to the religious nationalism we see today? Harvard Divinity School’s Dr. Catherine Brekus talks about how the myth is a complicated mixture of arrogance, exploitation, reform, racism and violence. She looks at the roots of this myth, how it has played out through our country’s history, and the ways that the recent surge of white Christian nationalism reflects a deep uneasiness about the loss of Christian privilege in this country.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): Meet Dr. Catherine Brekus
Dr. Catherine Brekus is Charles Warren Professor of the History of Religion in America at Harvard Divinity School, Chair of the Committee on the Study of Religion in the Faculty of Arts and Sciences, and an associate member of the Program in American Studies and the Department of History. Her research focuses on the relationship between religion and American culture, with particular emphasis on the history of women, gender, Christianity, and the evangelical movement. Currently, she is writing a book about the relationship between American nationalism and Christianity and co-authoring a biography of Sarah Edwards (1710-1758) with Harry Stout and Ken Minkema.
Read more about her on Harvard Divinity School’s website.
This presentation was the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, an annual lecture series sponsored by BJC. Dr. Brekus gave this presentation at Old North Church in Boston.
Segment 2 (starting at 2:30): The myth of American ‘chosenness’
You can watch the presentation online at this link.
Dr. Brekus’ presentation was followed by a panel discussion that included Dr. Brekus; The Rt. Rev. Carol Gallagher, PhD; the Rev. Darrell Hamilton; and Dr. Michael Hoberman. It was moderated by the Rev. Dr. Jaimie Crumley. Our next episode will bring you their conversation.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Christian nationalism is on full display at stops of the ReAwaken America tour – conferences that fuse Christian language and symbols with conspiracy theories and election denials. Amanda went inside the most recent one at a Trump property in Miami, and she shares her experiences in this podcast – from assembly-line baptisms to the reaction of the crowd as speakers moved seamlessly from religious worship songs to calls for political violence.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:48): The Christian nationalism of the ReAwaken America tour
Amanda and Holly discussed the ReAwaken America tour in episode 5 of season 4: Christian nationalism and the midterm elections
Amanda and Holly mention this article about the ReAwaken Tour in The New York Times by Michelle Goldberg: Whose Version of Christian Nationalism Will Win in 2024?
Amanda wrote a response to Michael Flynn’s call for “one religion” in 2021, published by Baptist News Global: If you’re paying attention to Christian nationalism, you won’t be shocked by Michael Flynn’s call for ‘one religion under God’
Segment 2 (starting at 05:29): The Pastors for Trump event
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article on the Pastors for Trump group by Peter Stone for The Guardian: Pro-Trump pastors rebuked for ‘overt embrace of white Christian nationalism’
During this segment, we played a clip of Pastor John Bennett speaking during the Pastors for Trump event in Miami.
Segment 3 (starting at 15:34): ReAwaken America, baptisms, and our counter-witness
Amanda and Holly mentioned Brian Kaylor’s reporting on the ReAwaken America tour. You can see his twitter thread with clips from Miami and read his latest piece in the A Public Witness newsletter, which is part of the Word&Way network: Michael Flynn’s Soup for the Soulless
For more about Baptism and different ways Christian denominations approach it, check out this story from 2001 by the PBS program Religion and Ethics Newsweekly.
BJC and Faithful America created electronic billboards that were on trucks and a boat in Miami. See the video of the billboards in this post on the @EndChristianNationailsm Instagram account.
Visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org to explore the resources provided by the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign, including a statement anyone who identifies as a Christian can sign.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Texas legislature meets once every two years, and they are spending a great deal of this session on bills that would advance religion. We return to our conversation on the Ten Commandments bill in Texas, as we saw a groundswell of opposition to the bill when it headed to the state House. Amanda and Holly take a look at some viral moments, and we share an exclusive conversation with Texas state Rep. James Talarico, who spoke in opposition to this bill as a lawmaker, a former schoolteacher, and a Christian.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Why are we still talking about this?
Last week’s program on the Ten Commandments bill in Texas (Senate Bill 1515) is episode 20 of season 4. You can listen to it on our website.
We played the viral video of state Rep. James Talarico questioning the author of the bill. You can watch it on Twitter.
An advocate in Waco put together this petition opposing SB 1515, available for Texans who oppose the bill as people of faith to sign.
Segment 2 (starting at 12:39): A conversation with Texas state Rep. James Talarico
You can see video clips of the interview with Amanda and Texas state Rep. James Talarico in a Twitter thread she posted. It is also available on YouTube and on a reel posted by the @endchristiannationalism Instagram account.
Segment 3 (starting at 27:32): Putting this discussion into focus
For additional resources on the various ways religions interpret and list the commandments, a chart from New World Encyclopedia shows how different traditions order them. You can see a list of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) here. Visit this website for a side-by-side comparison of the Ten Commandments as listed in Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 20.
We played a clip of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioning Paul Clement in 2005 during oral arguments in the Van Orden v. Perry case. You can listen to the full argument here, and the clip we played is from 51:24 in the audio recording of the argument.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Texas is taking matters into its own hands, going full-on cowboy as it leads the nation in abandoning long-held religious liberty protections. Amanda and Holly review a troubling bill in Texas that would mandate the posting of the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms, and they share how some are trying to use the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision – and removal of the Lemon test – to justify this effort. They also review some surprising moments during a Texas Senate hearing on the bill, including when Baptists discover they have different understandings of their own theology. In the final segment, Amanda and Holly review the religious freedom problem with legislation like this and share ideas for engaging in conversation that can help reframe the issue.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:41): Dueling over the Ten Commandments
Amanda and Holly discuss last year’s Supreme Court decision in Kennedy v. Bremerton on episode 21 of season 3.
Amanda and Holly talk about the Lemon test, from the 1971 decision in Lemon v. Kurtzman. They also mention the 1980 Stone v. Graham decision.
The proposal in Texas is Senate Bill 1515, and the text is available online.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece by Britt Luby for Baptist News Global: ‘Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife’ and other posters I do not want in a first grade classroom.
Read Amanda’s Tweet about this proposal in Texas.
Segment 2 (starting at 13:28): The Texas Senate hearing on this bill
You can listen to the Texas state Senate hearing on Senate Bill 1515 at this link. We played a clip of Tara Beulah, which appears at 27:13 in that video.
Former BJC Executive Director Brent Walker wrote this piece in 2005 debunking some of David Barton’s claims.
You can find resources on Christian nationalism on the website of our Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign.
Segment 3 (starting at 30:01): Engaging in conversation about the Ten Commandments
In 2005, the two Supreme Court cases dealing with the posting of the Ten Commandments in government settings were McCreary County v. ACLU and Van Orden v. Perry.
Read Holly’s preview column, which included ways to engage in conversation about the issue, on page 6 of this magazine: Supreme Court’s review of Ten Commandments cases an opportunity for education on religious liberty
After the cases concluded in 2005, Holly wrote this column: Making sense of the Ten Commandments cases
For more resources from BJC on religious displays, visit BJConline.org/religious-displays.
The Respecting Religion podcast was honored with two DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards from the Religion Communicators Council: Best in category for an individual episode, recognizing our episode on the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision, and an award of merit for season 4 of the podcast.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court seemed less divided by ideological lines during the Groff v. DeJoy oral arguments, as justices searched for common ground to clarify a standard from a 1977 decision that no advocate seems to be fully supporting. Amanda and Holly share their thoughts from the day, playing key moments from the courtroom in their breakdown of the legal issues and sticking points in the case. What, exactly, constitutes “undue hardship” when looking at the practical realities of the modern workplace and the strain that one worker’s need – religious or not – can cause on others?
Segment 1: Statutory stare decisis (starting at 00:47)
Learn more about Groff v. DeJoy on our website: BJConline.org/Groff, which includes a link to the brief BJC joined and Holly’s preview column.
Listen to our preview of the case in episode 17: Is ‘de minimis’ enough?
Holly mentioned this story from Nina Totenberg on NPR: Who bears the burden, and how much, when religious employees refuse Sabbath work?
Visit the Supreme Court’s website to listen to oral arguments in Groff v. DeJoy and read a transcript.
At the Supreme Court, Aaron Streett argued on behalf of the petitioner, Gerald Groff, and Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar argued on behalf of the United States Postal Service.
We played one clip from the oral arguments during this segment:
- Justice Elena Kagan and Aaron Streett (this exchange takes place at 12:29 in the oral arguments)
Segment 2: A Court looking for common ground to clarify the law (starting at 14:14)
We played five clips from the oral arguments in this segment:
- Justice Neil Gorsuch and Elizabeth Prelogar (this exchange takes place at 57:58 in the oral arguments)
- Justice Elena Kagan and Aaron Street (from 31:26 in the arguments)
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Aaron Street (from at 34:26 in the arguments)
- Aaron Street responding to Justice Amy Coney Barrett (from 40:29 in the arguments)
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Elizabeth Prelogar (from 1:35:11 in the arguments)
Segment 3: How will the Court fix this problem? (starting at 25:43)
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Media reports about Christian nationalism are often tied to topline takeaways from research on the political ideology. Amanda and Holly review various definitions of the term “Christian nationalism,” look at its connection to – and distinctiveness from – the Christian faith, and talk about why sociological research on this topic matters.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1: Definitions of Christian nationalism (starting at 00:48)
The Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign defines Christian nationalism in the statement of principles.
Dr. Andrew Whitehead and Dr. Samuel Perry defined Christian nationalism in their 2020 book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States. You can also see their definition on a 1-page handout available on the Christians Against Christian Nationalism website.
Dr. Jemar Tisby shared his definition in a recent Substack post: A Virtual Roundtable on the Threat of Christian Nationalism, Part 2 of 4
Dr. Anthea Butler defined white Christian nationalism in her contribution to Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection. Her section is on pages 4-6.
Russell Moore defined Christian nationalism in this piece for Christianity Today: Christian Nationalism Cannot Save the World
Dr. Paul Miller defined Christian nationalism in this piece for Christianity Today: What is Christian nationalism?
Segment 2: What’s “Christian” about Christian nationalism? (starting at 16:08)
Amanda and Holly discussed this piece from The New Yorker by Kelefa Sanneh: Under God: How Christian is Christian nationalism?
Segment 3: Why do polling results matter? (starting at 24:12)
The PRRI/Brookings survey discussed is called A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to American Democracy and Culture
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A spring Supreme Court case is bringing together some unlikely allies. Amanda and Holly preview Groff v. DeJoy, which examines the federal statutory protection against religious discrimination in the workplace. They review the facts of the case, which involves a postal worker who has a religious belief he cannot work on the Sabbath, and they share why a “de minimis standard” set in a 1977 case is way too low. Not all impacts on coworkers are “undue hardships,” and Amanda and Holly share why we need a standard that works for everyone.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1: The facts of this case (starting at 00:37)
Visit BJConline.org/Groff for a full list of resources on Groff v. DeJoy.
Holly wrote an article for our spring magazine on the case: The Supreme Court’s latest religion case offers opportunity to restore statute’s meaning
Segment 2: Considering a better standard (starting at 14:55)
BJC joined an amicus brief in this case, led by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Other organizations joining the brief are the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, National Association of Evangelicals, Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, and ADL (Anti-Defamation League). Segment 3: What do we expect in oral argument? (starting at 25:06)
The Supreme Court will hear this case April 18, and we’ll have an episode dedicated to the oral argument.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Schoolhouse Rock left out a key way laws are made: The regulatory process. Amanda and Holly discuss the federal regulatory and rulemaking process and review some recent proposals and final rules from the Biden administration, including a proposed rule from nine different agencies and a final rule from the Department of Labor. They also review how these rules have changed through the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations, and they talk about the importance of balancing everyone’s rights when using government money to serve people in need.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1: How does this process work? (starting at 00:51)
Amanda mentioned this article by Annie Lowrey for The Atlantic: The Time Tax
Holly and Amanda mentioned the BJC Advocacy Team, a group of people who get email alerts about opportunities to reach out to government officials to make themselves heard. You can join up by signing up for BJC’s email list and checking the box to join the BJC Advocacy Team.
The Federal Register – which contains notices and proposed rules – is available online.
Segment 2: Three areas of proposed regulations where BJC filed comments (starting at 10:12)
As mentioned, The White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives under the Bush administration was sometimes abbreviated “WHOFBCI,” which some pronounced as “Whoof-book-ee.”
For more on regulations proposed by the Trump administration, listen to episode 4 of season 1 of the podcast: On the Regs: Faith-based regulations from the Trump administration
For some additional history of the White House’s faith-based office, read this 2015 article by Holly Hollman: BJC weighs in on proposed faith-based regulations, affirms progress
Learn about the new proposed regulations from the Biden administration in this post on our website: Biden administration proposes new rules reinstating important religious liberty protections for beneficiaries of federal funds
Segment 3: A finalized regulation on federal contractors (starting at 29:58)
Amanda read the statement from Holly that BJC released February 28 reacting to the final rules from the Department of Labor.
For more information on this topic, visit the website of the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs from the Department of Labor. It includes additional details and resources on Executive Order 11246, which bars discrimination in federal contracting.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
From New York City Mayor Eric Adams to several individuals at CPAC, we’ve recently heard new, troubling comments from public leaders that show – once again – the prominence of Christian nationalism and the dangers it poses to public debate. Amanda and Holly provide some “Separation of Church and State 101” in this episode to clear up confusion about the term and what it really means. They also share examples of people working together across ideological divides to combat Christian nationalism.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1: Troubling comments from New York City Mayor Eric Adams (starting at 00:51)
We played two clips from this speech Mayor Eric Adams gave at an interfaith breakfast. The first clip begins at 51:31 in the video, and the second begins at 44:36.
Read the full response from Rachel Laser, CEO of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, at this link.
Read Amanda’s Tweet in response to Mayor Adams here. It also appeared in this column from Jennifer Rubin for The Washington Post: Eric Adams wades into church-state quicksand.
Watch Mayor Adams on CNN’s State of the Union with Dana Bash at this link.
Segment 2: Concerns from CPAC (starting at 12:56)
See video of Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s remarks at CPAC in this Tweet from Religion News Service reporter Jack Jenkins.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this photo essay from The New York Times on CPAC, with words by Jane Coaston and photos by Damon Winter.
Amanda quoted this Tweet from conservative commentator Bill Kristol on the remarks from Michael Knowles at CPAC.
Amanda denounced Michael Knowles’ call for the elimination of transgenderism in this Tweet.
Segment 3: We don’t have to agree on everything to work together (starting at 24:59)
Amanda mentioned attending the Principles First Summit. Learn more at this link.
Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign and check out resources on the campaign’s website.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this book by Dr. Paul Miller: The Religion of American Greatness: What’s Wrong with Christian Nationalism
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
From curriculum debates to the posting of “In God We Trust,” we’re seeing the political ideology of Christian nationalism impacting religious freedom in our public schools. During Public Schools Week, Amanda and Holly review recent controversies and discuss the important role our nation’s public schools play in serving all people and educating 90% of American schoolchildren. They also discuss why some schools would rather teach a misleading version of history and shut down any conversation by calling on the “boogeyman” of Critical Race Theory.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1: A proliferation of bills pushing Christian nationalism in public schools (starting at 00:49)
Learn more about Public Schools Week on this website.
We played a clip of Amanda’s testimony before Congress in December 2022 during a hearing titled “The Evolution of Anti-Democratic Extremist Groups and the Ongoing Threat to Democracy,” led by the House Oversight Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. Watch her full testimony at this link.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this “super-thread” on Twitter from Bryan Kelley, a policy analyst, of bills being introduced in state legislatures which have a component that combines religion and public education.
Segment 2: What’s the role of religion in public schools? (starting at 14:45)
Visit BJC’s collection of resources on religion in the public schools at this link.
Amanda and Holly mentioned an article by the Rev. Jennifer Hawks, BJC’s associate general counsel, that was published in Good Faith Media: Strong public schools fight Christian nationalism
Segment 3: Other opportunities to support public schools (starting at 23:25)
Watch the webinar on advancing religious freedom in public schools, featuring Maggie Siddiqi, Director of the Center for Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the U.S. Department of Education, and the Rev. Dr. Brian Kaylor, President and Editor-in-Chief of Word&Way.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
How can we best understand the overlap of white supremacy and Christian nationalism? The Rev. Dr. Jonathan C. “Jay” Augustine joins Amanda and Holly for a wide-ranging conversation during Black History Month as we explore the way Christian nationalism devalues Blackness in our country. A pastor, preacher, lawyer and author, Dr. Augustine shares the differences between racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination we see throughout American history as well as the polarization and “otherism” we see today. He also reviews the various methods of reconciliation and what we all can learn from the Black Church as we seek to envision a just society and embrace a fuller understanding of religious freedom, including its ability to liberate.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: How to have a religious freedom conversation that respects all (starting at 00:43)
Learn more about the work of the Rev. Dr. Jonathan C. “Jay” Augustine by visiting his website.
Dr. Augustine delivered BJC’s 2022 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State. You can watch all three presentations on our YouTube channel:
- And Who Is My Neighbor?
- Religious Liberty & Christian Nationalism: A Political History & Problematic Present
- Making America Great Again?: Christian Nationalism & Attempts to Undermine Democracy
Dr. Augustine’s new book is titled When Prophets Preach: Leadership and the Politics of the Pulpit (Fortress Press, 2023). It will be released March 28, and you can pre-order it from Amazon or from Fortress Press.
Segment 2: Christian nationalism’s white-centric idea of belonging (starting at 12:47)
Amanda mentioned the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement and the line in it that says the ideology “overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation.” Read the entire statement online at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org
Holly mentioned Dr. Augustine’s previous book, which is Called to Reconciliation: How the Church Can Model Justice, Diversity, and Inclusion (Baker Academic, 2022). It is available wherever books are sold, including Amazon.
Segment 3: What can everyone learn from the Black Church? (starting at 30:07)
Amanda mentioned remarks by Dr. Jemar Tisby during an event at The Brookings Institution. BJC Tweeted out a clip of his remarks, available here.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Accusations of antisemitism and Islamophobia tend to spark and exacerbate divisions in our world. Amanda and Holly discuss two recent controversies that featured accusations of religious bias: The removal of Rep. Ilhan Omar from a congressional committee and a depiction of the Prophet Muhammad shown in an art history class. They look at the under-discussed parts of these controversies, implications for the future, and how we balance the right to religious belief and expression with respect for others’ beliefs.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:55): A vote to remove Rep. Ilhan Omar from a congressional committee
Holly and Amanda discussed this article by Karoun Demirjian in The New York Times: House Ousts Ilhan Omar From Foreign Affairs Panel as G.O.P. Exacts Revenge
Amanda read a statement from former Rep. John Yarmuth via Twitter.
Segment 2 (starting at 11:39): A professor, ancient art and campus controversy
Amanda and Holly discussed this in-depth article by Vimal Patel in The New York Times on the controversy at Hamline University: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job.
For more on blasphemy laws and BJC’s work against them:
- BJC and others speak out against blasphemy laws, covering a congressional briefing in 2018
- U.S. House Supports International Religious Freedom Resolution by the Rev. Jennifer Hawks, associate general counsel at BJC
- Article 18 of the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights
Read the lawsuit filed by professor Erika López Prater, Ph.D., at this link.
Holly and Amanda mentioned this article by Yonat Shimron in Religion News Service: Hamline University retracts ‘Islamophobia’ charge as instructor sues
Segment 3 (starting at 31:12): What have we learned from these controversies?
Holly mentioned a program called “Protecting Academic Freedom, Empowering Muslim Students After the Hamline Controversy,” led by Rutgers Law Professor Sahar Aziz for the Rutgers Center for Security, Race, and Rights. It is available to watch on YouTube.
Amanda mentioned this open letter from Muslims for Progressive Values.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
On February 2, we’ll see the 71st installment of an event that always raises eyebrows and makes news. The National Prayer Breakfast has been around since 1953, but what is it? Does it promote religious freedom, or is it yet another example of Christian nationalism? Amanda and Holly explore the legitimate questions it raises about faith in public life and the relationship between the institutions of government and religion. They also share their thoughts on what we should do about the National Prayer Breakfast and the key differences between it and the National Day of Prayer.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 00:47): Exploring the National Prayer Breakfast from various angles
You can email Amanda and Holly at RespectingReligion@BJConline.org
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift supports the podcast!
Listen to Amanda and Holly’s conversation on the National Prayer Breakfast during the very first episode of Respecting Religion in February 2020 at this link. Their discussion of the event begins at 28:44 into the episode.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this op-ed in The Washington Post by Albert Brooks, who was the keynote speaker at the 2020 National Prayer Breakfast: Trump and I disagreed at the National Prayer Breakfast. But we listened to each other
Throughout its history, the National Prayer Breakfast has been hosted by The Fellowship Foundation, also known as “The Family.” You can visit their website at this link.
As mentioned, this year a newly-created nonprofit will be the official host of the National Prayer Breakfast. “The Family” will host a large event at the same time that includes a livestream. Read more in this Religion News Service article by Adelle Banks and Jack Jenkins: National Prayer Breakfast breaks from ‘The Family’ with new organization
Amanda and Holly mentioned this 2022 article by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Sen. Chris Coons: This year’s National Prayer Breakfast is a ‘reset’
Segment 2 (starting at 25:21): History, controversies, and the proper relationship between religion and government
Amanda and Holly discussed the Johnson Amendment in season 2, episode 4: Grading the Trump administration on religious freedom (starting around 09:50 in that episode). You can also read more about BJC’s work defending the protections of the Johnson Amendment
Journalist Jeff Sharlet wrote a book titled “The Family” in 2009 about the Fellowship Foundation, including the National Prayer Breakfast. In August 2019, Netflix released a 5-episode series called “The Family.” You can read John Fea’s review of the Netflix series that ran in The Washington Post.
Segment 3 (starting at 32:12): What’s the difference between the National Prayer Breakfast and the National Day of Prayer?
Amanda quoted Brent Walker and quoted Holly from this BJC press release in 2011 about the National Day of Prayer.
Amanda tweeted about attending the White House’s naturalization ceremony, held on Religious Freedom Day. See her tweets about attending here, including a clip from Second Gentleman Douglas Emhoff’s speech.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Last week, our country marked the second anniversary of the January 6 insurrection. On today’s podcast, Amanda and Holly share their reactions to the report released by the January 6 Select Committee at the end of 2022, including the lack of any mention of Christian nationalism and why that matters. Amanda and Holly also discuss the importance of Christian leaders providing an alternative witness to the Christian nationalism exhibited during the attack on the Capitol. And, they review how the insurrection still shapes our world and how it – surprisingly – doesn’t shape Capitol tours.
SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:50): The January 6 Report
Read the final report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol at this link.
We played a clip compiling three individuals’ statements during the January 6 hearings claiming the Constitution was divinely inspired: Greg Jacob, Rusty Bowers, and Rep. Liz Cheney. You can see Amanda’s Tweet of the video here. You can read the comprehensive BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link. Click here to read the letter organized by BJC and Christians from Christian Nationalism to the January 6 Select Committee, asking them to investigate how Christian nationalism motivated and intensified the attack. You can watch Amanda’s testimony before a House subcommittee in December at this link. Amanda and Holly discuss it in more detail in episode 9.
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Vera Bergengruen for TIME Magazine: Why a Group of Christians Is Fighting the Growing Threat of Christian Nationalism
Additional media coverage on the absence of Christian nationalism from the final report:
Despite ample evidence, Christian nationalism mostly absent from final Jan. 6 report by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service
Christian nationalism conspicuously absent from January 6 report, featuring an interview with Amanda Tyler and MSNBC’s Alicia Menendez on the Alex Wagner Tonight program
Segment 2 (starting at 20:17): Contrasting images on the 2nd anniversary of January 6
You can see BJC’s photos of the prayer vigil in this Facebook album. There are also photos from Getty Images, AP, and Reuters from the vigil.
You can follow the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign on Instagram and TikTok at the handle @EndChristianNationalism.
Watch this short compilation of the two events on January 6, 20203, on the @EndChristianNationalism TikTok.
Segment 3 (starting at 28:45): Scrubbing the insurrection from Capitol tours
Amanda and Holly discussed this story from The Washington Post by Joe Heim: Official U.S. Capitol tour guides told to only mention Jan. 6 if asked
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift came through our podcast!
Why hasn’t Congress addressed the dangers of Christian nationalism before now? Amanda and Holly talk about a crucial hearing this week, which included testimony from Amanda on how Christian nationalism overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation. They look at the challenges facing Congress in addressing the rise in violence in our country, and they share some bipartisan unity from this week’s hearing. Plus, Amanda and Holly take a moment to thank our listeners as we wrap our final show of 2022.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1 (starting at 00:50): Why is congressional testimony important?
You can read the joint BJC/Freedom From Religion Foundation report on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link.
Jack Jenkins and Emily McFarlan Miller wrote this article for Religion News Service about the expert statement from Christian leaders to the January 6 Committee: Major Christian leaders asked Jan. 6 committee to investigate Christian nationalism
Read the full text of the letter sent to the January 6 Committee at this link.
Amanda testified during a hearing titled “The Evolution of Anti-Democratic Extremist Groups and the Ongoing Threat to Democracy.” It was the 7th – and final – hearing in the “Confronting White Supremacy” series of hearings led by the House Oversight Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. Click here to read more about the hearing and the list of expert witnesses.
Segment 2 (starting at 13:38): Amanda’s testimony: Christian nationalism is not Christianity
Read Amanda’s submitted written testimony at this link.
Watch Amanda’s in-person testimony at this link.
Watch a video of the entire subcommittee hearing at this link.
Segment 3 (starting at 30:33):Who are our podcast listeners?
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC. Use that link so we know your gift came through our podcast!
Amanda and Holly review this week’s Supreme Court arguments in 303 Creative v. Elenis, a free speech challenge to a Colorado law that prohibits discrimination in the commercial marketplace. They look at how this case came to be, how it relates to 2018’s Masterpiece Cakeshop case, and the difficulty in deciding weighty matters of free speech and nondiscrimination for a wedding website design business that has not started that aspect of its business. Amanda and Holly play clips from the courtroom and share why, based on the questions and the tone, they think 303 Creative will win this case. But, the big question is how the company might win and how this case may affect debates about religious freedom and nondiscrimination laws.
SHOW NOTES: Segment 1 (starting at 00:53 ): From Masterpiece Cakeshop to 303 Creative
Amanda and Holly previewed 303 Creative v. Elenis in episode 2 of season 4.
Learn more about the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case and read BJC’s brief at BJConline.org/Masterpiece
Segment 2 (starting at 10:44): Key takeaways from 2+ hours of oral arguments
We played three clips in this segment from oral arguments, which are available on the Supreme Court’s website at this link:
- Justice Elena Kagan (starting at 2:04:54 into the oral arguments)
- Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 00:46:12 into the oral arguments)
- Brian Fletcher, Deputy Solicitor General of the Department of Justice (starting at 01:56:00 into the oral arguments)
Amanda and Holly mentioned this op-ed by David Cole for The New York Times: The Supreme Court Is About to Ask the Wrong Question About the First Amendment
Segment 3 (starting at 26:20): A reeducation on some surprising questions
Visit BJC’s Facebook page to see a video of Amanda outside the Supreme Court before the oral arguments began on Monday.
We played three clips in this segment from oral arguments, which are available on the Supreme Court’s website at this link:
- Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 00:21:54 into the oral arguments)
- Brian Fletcher, Deputy Solicitor General of the Department of Justice (starting at 02:07:46 into the oral arguments)
- Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (starting at 02:14:57 into the oral arguments)
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Can marriage equality and religious liberty co-exist? Amanda and Holly discuss the Respect for Marriage Act, including what led to this bill’s creation, the legislative wrangling to get it passed in an election year, and the bevy of amendments full of political posturing. They also discuss the important distinctions between marriage as a civil institution and marriage as a religious institution. Learn more about the current state of conflicts over LGBTQ rights and religious objections to same-sex marriage and what this means to those conversations.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1 (starting at 00:55): What is in the Respect for Marriage Act?
Read the text of the Respect for Marriage Act and the amendment passed by the U.S. Senate at this link.
Segment 2 (starting at 09:56): Why does this bill exist, and how did it make its way through the Senate?
Holly and Amanda discussed this article by Liz Goodwin in The Washington Post: How a bipartisan group of senators got same-sex marriage protections passed
Read Amanda’s response to the compromise that paved the way for the Respect for Marriage Act in this article by Kelsey Dallas for Deseret News:How faith leaders reacted to Senate passage of same-sex marriage protections
Segment 3 (starting at 19:09): An extreme spectrum of reactions to the bill
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Tad Walch for Deseret News: Why Latter-day Saints support the amended Respect for Marriage Act
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Where did we see religion and religious liberty have an impact during the midterm elections? Amanda and Holly break down election results in this podcast, including a look at how extremism fared at the ballot box. Plus, they review the implications of former president Donald Trump’s return as a candidate when it comes to Christian nationalism.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1 (starting at 00:51): A quick overview of election results
Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece by Jack Jenkins for Religion News Service: Despite Mastriano’s loss, don’t count out Christian nationalism
Holly mentioned two pieces by Sam Perry and Andrew Whitehead:
- In The Washington Post: Is Christian nationalism growing or declining? Both.
- In TIME magazine: Why White Christian Nationalism Isn’t Going Away
Segment 2 (starting at 09:36): Boebert, Mastriano, Stitt, DeSantis, and more
Holly mentioned this article from Baptist News Global by Mark Wingfield: Oklahoma elects secretary of education who wants to require training in ‘Christian’ version of American history
Amanda mentioned this video of Oklahoma Gov Kevin Stitt that was available on Twitter at this link.
The link to the campaign video tweeted by Casey DeSantis, wife of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, is available on Twitter at this link. You can read Amanda’s Tweet responding to it here.
Amanda and Holly mentioned the Baptist News Global story on the ad by Mark Wingfield, which included comments from former chair of the Republican National Committee, Michael Steele: Former RNC head calls new DeSantis ad ‘ass-backwards blasphemy’
Segment 3 (starting at 27:35): The implications of former president Donald Trump’s re-entrance as a candidate for president
Read Amanda’ response to former president Trump’s campaign announcement on Twitter at this link.
Read the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement and access resources at this link.
Tune in to see more with Amanda and Holly during our telethon on Giving Tuesday! Tune in starting at 6 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, November 29, to learn more about our work and how you can support our ongoing efforts. You can watch on BJC’s Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter pages.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Christian nationalism’s influence continues to permeate so many facets of our world, particularly as we approach the midterm elections. Holly and Amanda look at the headline-grabbing ReAwaken America tour events happening across the country, including how Michael Flynn and others are exploiting Christian nationalism in those arenas for political gain. Plus, they review new research about Americans’ attitudes toward – and knowledge of – Christian nationalism, Supreme Court justices, and recent court decisions. Amanda and Holly share how these new polls can help all of us in our work calling out and dismantling Christian nationalism in our communities and in ourselves.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1: Michael Flynn and the ReAwaken America Tour (starting at 01:02)
Amanda and Holly gave an update on the Christians Against Christian Nationalism initiative in episode 3.
You can watch the PBS Frontline special “Michael Flynn’s Holy War” at this link.
Amanda spoke to Michelle Smith from the Associated Press for this story: Michael Flynn’s ReAwaken roadshow recruits ‘army of God’
Read the report on Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection from BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation at this link: https://bjconline.org/jan6report/
Amanda and Holly mentioned these articles about the ReAwaken America rally at Spooky Nook in central Pennsylvania:
- Right-wing roadshow promotes Christian nationalism before midterms by Annie Gowan for The Washington Post
- COVID-19, rigged elections and a prophecy from God: Clay Clark’s ReAwaken America tour comes to Lancaster by Carter Walker for Lancaster Online
Segment 2: A growing interest and concern about Christian nationalism (starting at 14:46)
Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement here.
Andrew Whitehead and Sam Perry are the co-authors of Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States
Click here to read the new findings from Pew Research Center with the headline “45% of Americans Say U.S. Should Be a ‘Christian Nation’”
Holly answers the question “Is the United States a Christian nation?” in this video.
Segment 3: Christian nationalism and the midterm elections (starting at 26:48)
Read the results of the PRRI 2022 American Values Survey at this link. Watch a video presentation of the October 27 release event at this link.
Read the results of the FiveThirtyEight/PerryUndem/YouGov survey at this link.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Debates about access to abortion are often intertwined with religion, and the conversation is changing in light of the Supreme Court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturned Roe v. Wade and the federal constitutional right to an abortion. Amanda and Holly review some of the public and academic commentaries on the intersection of abortion and religion, and they look at religious liberty arguments being made for abortion access and what it takes to make a religious liberty claim.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: What was the driving force behind the Dobbs decision? (starting at 00:55)
Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece in The New York Times by Linda Greenhouse: Religious Doctrine, Not the Constitution, Drove the Dobbs Decision
Amanda and Holly discussed the leaked Dobbs draft in episode 16 of season 3.
Segment 2: The role of religion in current abortion debates (starting at 12:46)
Amanda and Holly discussed this article by Samira Mehta for Religion News Service: There is no one ‘religious view’ on abortion: A scholar of religion, gender and sexuality explains
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Ana Marie Cox in Texas Monthly: Before Roe, Faith Leaders Helped Texans Get Illegal Abortions. What Will They Do Now?
Click here for a resource from the New York Times on the different laws in states across the country regarding abortion.
Amanda and Holly mentioned two articles written by Kelsey Dallas for Deseret News:
- Do abortion bans violate the establishment clause?
- Does religious freedom law give you a right to abortion?
Segment 3: Establishment Clause claims regarding abortion (starting at 31:41)
Amanda and Holly mentioned this piece by Elizabeth Dias for The New York Times: Inside the Extreme Effort to Punish Women for Abortion and her appearance on The Daily podcast episode titled The Effort to Punish Women for Having Abortions
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
It’s been three years since the launch of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism initiative. In this episode, Amanda and Holly discuss what we’ve learned since convening that project and how the conversation is changing today. They share about accusations we’ve heard over the project’s lifetime, why we are seeing this topic in the media more often, and the odd ways the public discourse is shifting.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment one (starting at 00:47): A brief history of Christians Against Christian Nationalism
Prior episodes of this podcast series discussing Christian nationalism include:
- S3, Ep. 19: Gun culture and Christian nationalism in America (June 16, 2022)
- S3, Ep. 18: Christian nationalism and election season 2022 (June 2, 2022)
- S3, Ep. 12: Christian nationalism and January 6 (Feb. 17, 2022)
- S1, Ep. 11: Christian nationalism during the coronavirus pandemic (April 30, 2020)
Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Visit this link for the Christians Against Christian Nationalism library of resources including:
- Our 2019 podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism and corresponding discussion guide
- One-page explainer on Christian nationalism
- Frequently Asked Questions
Visit BJC’s YouTube channel for a playlist of videos addressing frequently asked questions, including:
- What is Christian Nationalism, and how is it different from Christianity?
- Is the United States a “Christian nation”?
Read the joint report from BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation on Christian nationalism and the January 6 insurrection at this link.
Visit BJC’s library of resources at BJConline.org/christian-nationalism
Segment two (starting at 11:40): Where are we now in the battle against Christian nationalism?
We played two clips from members of Congress:
- Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene in a panel discussion at CPAC Texas 2022
- Rep. Lauren Boebert speaking at Cornerstone Christian Center in Basalt, Colorado
The joint AP / PBS Frontline investigation on the rise of Gen. Michael Flynn and the ReAwaken America tour includes this article by Michelle Smith and Richard Lardner: “Michael Flynn’s ReAwaken road show recruits ‘Army of God’”
The PBS Frontline Special titled “Michael Flynn’s Holy War” is available at this link.
Read Amanda’s op-ed for CNN.com: Marjorie Taylor Greene’s words on Christian nationalism are a wake-up call
As mentioned, Amanda has been on several programs recently discussing Christian nationalism. Here are a few:
- Up Front, a program on Al Jazeera English
- Ayman, a program on MSNBC on Peacock
- Reality Check with John Avlon, a program on CNN
Segment three (starting at 27:04): Lessons learned as we continue the cause
Amanda was interviewed for this article in Texas Monthly by Bekah McNeel: Decoding the Christian Language of Texas GOP Officials
You’re invited! Join us October 26 at 7 p.m. Eastern Time in-person at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. or online for a special event: “How White Christian Nationalism Threatens Our Democracy”. Amanda will be alongside The Most Rev. Michael Curry (Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church) and Dr. Samuel Perry (the co-author of The Flag and the Cross: White Christian Nationalism and the Threat to American Democracy). The conversation will be moderated by the Rev. Jim Wallis, who is director of the Georgetown University Center on Faith and Justice. Visit this Eventbrite link for registration and livestream details.
What are Amanda and Holly watching in the new Supreme Court term? They preview 303 v. Elenis, a case involving a woman who says she doesn’t want to design wedding websites for same-sex couples, and compare it to the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, in which the Court avoided the main question. Amanda and Holly also discuss an order from the Court’s “shadow docket” involving Yeshiva University’s refusal to recognize an LGBT club on campus, and they share why we’re still watching that case. Plus, hear their reaction to Justice Samuel Alito’s speech at a conference in Rome.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1: A free speech right to refuse to design wedding websites? (starting at 00:55)
You can contact Amanda and Holly with your thoughts on the show by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Learn more about the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case and read BJC’s brief at BJConline.org/Masterpiece
Segment 2: The shadow docket decision regarding Yeshiva University (starting at 13:04)
Read a brief recap of the Yeshiva decision on our website.
Segment #3: Justice Alito’s summer statements in Rome (starting at 19:24)
Amanda and Holly discussed this speech by Justice Samuel Alito.
They also mentioned this feature on Justice Alito in the New Yorker, written by Margaret Talbot: Justice Alito’s Crusade Against a Secular America Isn’t Over
Amanda and Holly discussed this piece by Professor Alan Brownstein on the different uses of the word “public,” published by The Hill: Religion in the public square
See a list of our previous episodes by visiting RespectingReligion.org.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court opened its new term this week, and Amanda and Holly look at where its last decisions are leading us. They provide updates on high-profile decisions, including the praying coach in Washington state who hasn’t returned to work yet and the dilemmas facing religious schools in Maine. Amanda and Holly lament how this Court ignores the distinctiveness of religion, despite religion’s special status in the Constitution. They view the Court as taking a major risk by leaving lower courts without better guidance. Amanda and Holly also weigh in on discussions regarding the Court’s legitimacy and remind us that we can’t just count on the Supreme Court to uphold our rights.
Segment 1: Back after first Monday at the Court (starting at 01:07)
You can contact Amanda and Holly with your thoughts on the show by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Amanda was live outside the Supreme Court on the first day of the new term, and you can see that video here.
Amanda and Holly wrote about the Supreme Court this week for USA Today: 'Pro-religion'? Conservative Supreme Court abandons long-standing religious liberty principles.
Shurtleff v. Boston: Holly and Amanda discussed the oral arguments during Season 3 in episode 8, and they discussed the decision in episode 16.
Ramirez v. Collier: Holly and Amanda previewed the case last season in episode 2, discussed the oral arguments in episode 4, and reviewed the decision in episode 16.
Segment 2: Focusing on the two consequential cases that were overshadowed (starting at 13:27)
Carson v. Makin: Access BJC’s resources here.
Kennedy v. Bremerton: Access BJC’s resources here.
Holly summarized both decisions in our latest magazine: Supreme Court continues to shift religious liberty landscape.
Amanda and Holly discussed this article by Michelle Boorstein for the Washington Post (which includes comments from Holly): Under right-leaning Supreme Court, the church-state wall is crumbling
Segment #3: What do Amanda and Holly make of conversations about this Court’s legitimacy? (starting at 27:46)
See a list of our previous episodes by visiting RespectingReligion.org.
You can also access episodes of Respecting Religion on BJC’s YouTube channel. Subscribe today!
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court is sowing more confusion with its Kennedy v. Bremerton decision, ruling for a public school official and abandoning long-standing Establishment Clause protections in ways that harm the religious freedom rights of students. In our season three finale – and our first episode in front of a live audience – Amanda and Holly discuss the impact of this ruling, and they ponder just what, exactly, would actually constitute “coercion” for this Court. The Supreme Court did not overrule the previous school prayer cases with the decision, but it did gut some of the consensus that protects the religious liberty rights of everyone at public schools. In the second and final segment, Amanda and Holly look to the next Supreme Court term and BJC’s plans to continue its work defending faith freedom for all.
The first segment of this episode was recorded in front of a live audience during the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship General Assembly in Dallas, Texas, on June 29, 2022.
Segment 1: A six-justice majority upends settled law (starting at 06:07)
Season three of Respecting Religion won the “Best in Class” award for specialty programming from the Religion Communicators Council’s DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards.
You can access BJC’s resources on the Kennedy v. Bremerton case by visiting BJConline.org/Bremerton, including BJC’s amicus brief in this case.
You can read the Bremerton opinion here, written by Justice Neil Gorsuch. Justice Sonia Sotomayor’s dissenting opinion includes photos of the prayer practice at issue (see pages 9 and 10 of the dissent, which are on pages 49 and 50 of the opinion PDF document).
Segment 2: It’s “game on” for BJC (starting at 30:09)
Watch the livestream of Holly and Amanda recording the first segment of this podcast during our workshop at the CBF General Assembly at this link.
Holly and Amanda discussed this NPR story by Nina Totenberg: The Supreme Court is the most conservative in 90 years
Holly mentioned this article by Kelsey Dallas for Deseret News: The Supreme Court came together on religion this term. Then, it fell apart
Amanda mentioned our BJC Luncheon, which was held in Dallas on June 30, listening to Indigenous voices on faith freedom. You can watch a video of the program on our YouTube page.
While the podcast is taking a break, BJC is not! Keep up with our work by subscribing to our email list at BJConline.org/subscribe and following us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Does the Constitution require our government to fund religion? In a landmark ruling, the Supreme Court says, for the first time, that if a state has a program that includes funding for private schools it must also provide funding for religious schools. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the Carson v. Makin decision, which shows how the Supreme Court is shifting further and further away from the Establishment Clause’s protections of religious liberty for all. They explore the Court’s “bait and switch” to make this radical shift seem not so bad, and they look at all of the reasons the Framers thought it was smart to avoid government funding of religion. In segment three, Amanda and Holly review the latest misleading headlines that conflate “religious liberty” with a promotion of free exercise rights at the expense of Establishment Clause protections.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: A radical shift in religious liberty law (starting at 03:50)
You can contact Amanda and Holly with your thoughts on the show by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Amanda Tweeted her reaction to the Dobbs decision on Friday, June 24. You can see her Tweet thread here.
Holly and Amanda recorded this episode before the Court released its opinion in the Kennedy v. Bremerton case on June 27, 2022. They will analyze that case in the next episode of Respecting Religion.
Access BJC’s resources on Carson v. Makin at BJConline.org/CarsonvMakin, including the brief we joined, Holly’s article for our winter magazine, and our statement on decision day.
Read the Supreme Court decision in Carson v. Makin at this link.
We mentioned the two recent cases that led to this case:
- Trinity Lutheran v. Comer: BJConline.org/TrinityLutheran
- Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue: BJConline.org/Espinoza
Segment 2: Where’s the Establishment Clause? (starting at 19:18)
Holly and Amanda mentioned these cases when discussing how the Court abandoned the “play in the joints” principle in religious freedom law and the impact of this case in state funding of religious schools:
- Locke v. Davey (2004)
- Zelman v. Simmons-Harris (2002)
Amanda quoted from the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, written by Thomas Jefferson.
Holly quoted from Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, written by James Madison.
Segment #3: More misleading headlines (starting at 33:02)
Amanda and Holly discussed this New York Times newsletter written by Ian Prasad Philbrick: A Pro-Religion Court. It also links to a piece by Adam Liptak with some misleading shorthand, titled Supreme Court Rejects Maine’s Ban on Aid to Religious Schools.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The United States has a distinctive and increasingly destructive gun culture. In this episode, Amanda and Holly look at how embracing Christian nationalism correlates to opinions on gun control and why conversations about gun reform become more difficult when “God-given rights” are invoked and government-sponsored prayer is advanced as a policy solution after violence. Dive into this nuanced, complicated and emotional issue as our country reels from recent mass shootings and searches for policy solutions.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: What is it about Christian nationalism that drives such strong opposition to gun reform? (starting at 00:43)
You can contact Amanda and Holly with your thoughts on the show by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
We’ve discussed manifestations of Christian nationalism this season in several episodes, including episode 6, episode 12, and episode 18.
Visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org for a statement to sign and additional resources on Christian nationalism.
Amanda and Holly mentioned our 10-part podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism and corresponding discussion guide. You can listen to each episode individually at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org/podcasts, or you can visit our “BJC Podcast” feed and scroll back to episodes from 2019.
The podcast discussion guide is also available at this link.
Amanda mentioned Dr. Samuel Perry and Dr. Andrew Whitehead’s book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States, which uses a model to identify and explain Chrisitan nationalism and its impact on a variety of public policy issues and debates. You can see a quick overview in this one-page document.
Dr. Samuel Perry and Dr. Philip Gorski have a new book out titled The Flag and the Cross: White Christian Nationalism and the Threat to American Democracy.
Dr. Perry’s recent article for TIME magazine is School Shootings Confirm That Guns Are the Religion of the Right
Amanda mentioned this article by David French: Against Gun Idolatry. She also referred to this episode of the Good Faith podcast, with David French and Curtis Chang: Gun Violence, Gun Rights & Gun Idolatry.
Segment 2: How do we see Christian nationalism impacting the debate on guns? (starting at 18:00)
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article from Australia by Nicola Heath: Where do religious groups in the US stand on gun control?
Segment #3: Clergy in action (starting at 35:28)
Amanda and Holly mentioned these two articles:
- A profile of Peter Cook by Edward Helmore in The Guardian: The Christian leader trying to break America’s link between faith and guns
- An opinion piece by Charlie Dates for Christianity Today: White Churches, It’s Time to Go Pro-Life on Guns
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
It’s an election year, and we’re already seeing high-profile primaries and debates over the role religion plays in elections. In this episode, Amanda and Holly discuss constructive engagement for religious organizations in elections and voting, discussing terms that often get confused – such as “political” and “partisan” – and the important role of religion and religious people when it comes to advocating for policies. They explain the tax benefit that houses of worship and other charitable organizations receive and what that means when it comes to partisan campaigns. Getting involved in elections is one way you can fight back against Christian nationalism, and this episode talks about the legal rules and the rules of thumb when it comes to making your voice heard in the public square.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: What’s the difference between being political and being partisan? (starting at 04:22)
You can contact Amanda and Holly with your thoughts on the show by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Segment 2: Understanding the tax rules and steering clear of violations (starting at 16:21)
Holly mentioned IRS guidance for churches that is available online. You can see it at this link.
Amanda mentioned the Pew Research poll that shows a majority of both Republicans and Democrats identify as Christians. You can see the full religious landscape study and results at this link.
Holly mentioned BJC’s one-page handout with tips for being an advocate instead of a partisan. You can see that here.
For additional resources from BJC on churches and political campaigns – as well as the “Johnson Amendment” – visit BJConline.org/JohnsonAmendment.
Segment #3: An extreme example (starting at 37:22)
Amanda and Holly mentioned this post on our website: Troubling growth of Christian nationalism on display in the pulpit, on the campaign trail
Imagine your house of worship is facing destruction and your elected officials could stop it, but they were more concerned with how others view your sacred space. That’s the scenario facing the San Carlos Apache and other tribes in their fight to preserve their sacred land of Chí’chil Biłdagoteel, loosely translated in English as “Oak Flat.” In this podcast, learn more about this issue facing our Indigenous neighbors and how you can use your position to make a difference and save sacred land. Just because a religious group doesn’t build a steeple, it doesn’t mean the sacredness of the land is any less than a church or mosque or other worship site.
Show notes:
Segment 1: Land use and religious freedom (segments starts at 01:12)
RLUIPA is an acronym for the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, which became law in 2000.
Starting at 12:17, we played audio of congressional testimony from Naelyn Pike, a youth Apache Leader. She gave this testimony on March 12, 2020, during a hearing of the Subcommittee on Indigenous Peoples of the United States in the U.S. House of Representatives. You can watch the entire hearing at this link, and her testimony begins at 8:21 in that video.
Segment 2: How did we get here? Sweetheart deals in the NDAA (starting at 18:03)
NDAA stands for the “National Defense Authorization Act,” which is the bill that authorizes the annual budget and expenditures of the U.S. Department of Defense.
The Save Oak Flat Act is H.R. 1884/S. 915.
Learn more about Chí’chil Biłdagoteel and the Save Oak Flat Act, including social media posts you can share, at BJConline.org/SaveOakFlat. The individual petition you can sign will be linked on that page in the near future.
Read the letter from more than 100 religious and religious freedom groups sent to Congress asking to Save Oak Flat.
If you would like to contact your members of Congress about co-sponsoring the Save Oak Flat Act, here is a sample script you can use:
Hello, my name is [Name]. I am a constituent and am calling to ask Representative/Senator [Name] to co-sponsor the Save Oak Flat Act. Oak Flat is an ancient sacred site for the Apache and several other tribes in the Southwest. The federal government is giving the land to a foreign mining operation that will totally destroy this holy ground. Oak Flat’s sacredness is not lessened because their tradition does not build a steeple to mark it. Will Rep./Sen. [Name] co-sponsor the Save Oak Flat Act?
Not sure who your members of Congress are? Click here to find out.
Segment 3: What can you do to Save Oak Flat? (starting at 34:18)
See a list of 18 ways you can advocate for Oak Flat in this piece by BJC Associate General Counsel Jennifer Hawks on Medium: Celebrate Earth Day 2022 by protecting Oak Flat
Learn more about the Oak Flat Challenge in this article on Medium: What does 1.8 have to do with faith freedom for all?
See examples of the Oak Flat Challenge on Facebook here and in our Instagram highlight here.
Hear from Indigenous voices on faith freedom this summer in Dallas at our BJC Luncheon. On Thursday, June 30, we’ll be at the Hyatt Regency Dallas, and you can learn more and purchase a ticket at BJConline.org/Luncheon.
Plus, we’ll be doing a live recording of the Respecting Religion podcast on June 29 during our workshop at the CBF General Assembly. There is no cost to attend the assembly in Dallas – learn more at this link.
As always, you can contact Amanda and Holly by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
It’s been quite the week for the Supreme Court, releasing a decision in a case we were watching and responding to the unprecedented leak of a draft opinion in a case that captured the attention of the entire country. In this episode, Holly and Amanda break down Monday’s ruling in Shurtleff v. Boston – about a city flying a Christian flag – and the recent decision in Ramirez v. Collier – concerning religion in the execution chamber. They also react to the big Supreme Court news this week: the leak of a draft opinion for Dobbs vs. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, the case challenging a Mississippi law that restricts abortion. Amanda and Holly share their reactions to what’s happening at the Court and preview what’s to come.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: The leaked Dobbs draft opinion and a decision in Shurtleff v. Boston (segments starts at 00:55, the discussion of Shurtleff begins at 8:16)
Josh Gerstein and Alexander Ward of Politico broke the story with the leaked draft opinion: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
Amanda and Holly discussed Shurtleff v. Boston on two previous episodes this season: They previewed the oral arguments in episode 8 and reviewed the arguments – and made predictions – in episode 10.
Read the Supreme Court’s opinion in the case, written by Justice Stephen Breyer, and the concurring opinions at this link.
Segment 2: Say “yes” unless you have a really good reason to say “no” (starting at 23:41)
The Supreme Court issued its decision in Ramirez vs. Collier on March 24. Amanda and Holly discussed the case in episode 2 and episode 4. Read the Supreme Court’s decision, written by Chief Justice John Roberts, the concurring opinions and Justice Clarence Thomas’s dissent at this link.
“RLUIPA” is shorthand for the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, which became law in 2000.
The new filing from a district attorney in Ramirez v. Collier is discussed in this New York Times article by Ruth Graham: Days After Setting an Execution Date, a Texas Prosecutor Reverses Course
Segment 3: A rich holiday season (starting at 38:45)
Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Adelle Banks in Religion News Service: Second gentleman Doug Emhoff touts ‘critical’ interfaith collaboration
As always, you can contact Amanda and Holly by writing to RespectingReligion@BJConline.org.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
This week, the Supreme Court discussed a coach-led prayer practice on the football field, hearing two very different versions of the facts. Amanda and Holly review Monday’s oral arguments in Kennedy v. Bremerton in this podcast, sharing their four takeaways and playing key courtroom exchanges. From the fights over the facts to conflating the rights of students and school officials, there are plenty of moments that caused more than fleeting concerns.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1: Get your facts straight (starting at 00:51)
You can see Amanda’s videos outside the Supreme Court on oral argument day on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
Amanda and Holly previewed Kennedy v. Bremerton in Episode 14.
Americans United for Separation of Church and State represented the Bremerton school district, and Richard Katskee presented their arguments in the courtroom. First Liberty represented Coach Joseph Kennedy, and Paul Clement presented their arguments in the courtroom.
In this segment, we played the following clips, which are all available from the Supreme Court’s audio recording of the oral arguments:
- Justice Stephen Breyer (from 15:37 in the oral argument)
- Justice Elena Kagan and Paul Clement (from 37:59 in the oral argument)
- Chief Justice John Roberts (from 57:28 in the oral argument)
You can learn more about Kennedy v. Bremerton and read BJC’s brief in the case at BJConline.org/Bremerton.
Segment 2: Tim Tebow, Mohamed Salah, and examples that aren’t relevant to this case (starting at 19:30)
Amanda and Holly mentioned several cases about religion and public schools:
Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)
Santa Fe v. Doe (2000)
Engel v. Vitale (1962)
Abington v. Schempp (1963)
Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971 – origin of the “Lemon test”)
In this segment, we played the following clips, which are all available from the Supreme Court’s audio recording of the oral arguments:
- Paul Clement answering a question from Justice Brett Kavanaugh (from 43:26 in the oral argument)
- Justice Brett Kavanaguh and Richard Katskee (from 01:01:42 in the oral argument)
- Justice Neil Gorsuch and Richard Katskee (from 01:27:16 in the oral argument)
- Justice Samuel Alito and Richard Katskee (from 01:18:32 in the oral argument)
The American Jewish Committee, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and the General Synod of the United Church of Christ joined BJC’s brief, which was co-authored by Professors Douglas Laycock and Christopher Lund.
Segment 3: Where do we go from here? (starting at 40:40)
Holly’s reaction to the case was quoted in this article from the Los Angeles Times by David Savage: Supreme Court conservatives lean toward allowing football coach’s postgame prayers
Dr. Charles Haynes shared his experience teaching guidelines in the public schools in this piece for Baptist News Global: At the Supreme Court: The First Amendment on the 50-yard-line
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A public high school football coach is claiming a right to pray with students on the 50-yard-line immediately after the game while still on duty. What’s the best way to protect religious freedom for everyone in this situation? Amanda and Holly talk about the Supreme Court case of Kennedy v. Bremerton, what’s at stake, and how various groups are portraying what really happened. They go over BJC’s brief, which works to find a solution for everyone that protects the rights of students to be free to make their own choices about what religious practices they want to do and when to do so. Amanda and Holly also discuss the lines between private practice and government speech, and the different rights of students – who are compelled to be at school – and government employees, who represent the government. SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1: What is going on in this case? Outlining the facts and setting the record straight (starting at 00:50)
In episode 10, Amanda and Holly discussed Shurtleff v. Boston, the flag-raising case at Boston City Hall.
BJC filed a brief in the Kennedy v. Bremerton case, defending students’ rights to religious liberty. You can read the brief here, and read more about it on our website in this article: BJC urges Supreme Court to reject high school coach’s defense of on-field prayers with students.
BJC’s brief was led by Holly and BJC Associate General Counsel Jennifer Hawks, and it was written by church-state scholars Douglas Laycock and Christopher Lund.
Segment 2: Previewing the oral arguments (starting at 16:30)
Amanda and Holly mentioned several cases involving case law about the rights of government employees and the rights of the government as an employer:
Pickering v. Board of Education (1968)
Garcetti v. Ceballos (2006)
They also mentioned cases about religion and public schools and speech that are relevant to this case:
Good News Club v. Milford Central School (2001)
Santa Fe v. Doe (2000) (another case involving prayer at public school football games)
Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)
You can read BJC’s guidance on religion in the public schools – including consensus guidelines put together by diverse groups in decades past – by visiting BJConline.org/religion-public-schools-resources/.
Segment 3: Religion and sports in our lives today (starting at 33:56)
Amanda and Holly discussed this article by Kelsey Dallas, published by Deseret News: Trying to raise successful kids? Experts say you shouldn’t forget about faith
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The expected and the unexpected came up during Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson’s confirmation hearings to be a Supreme Court justice. Amanda and Holly review key exchanges, including questions about her personal religious belief and religious liberty. Plus, they review the jaw-dropping news about texts from Virginia Thomas – wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas – on January 6 that showcase the prominence of Christian nationalism in the events and conversations that culminated in the attack on the Capitol.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1: We’re back! What’s happened since our last podcast? A review of events and a look at Judge Jackson’s nomination (starting at 00:58)
Amanda and Holly previewed the case of Ramirez v. Collier in episode 4 and episode 2 of this season, and they discussed Kennedy v. Bremerton in episode 10.
Read more about the event led by the Progressive National Baptist Convention on the first day of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson’s confirmation hearings in this article from Baptist News Global: PNBC leads call to action for voting rights, democracy
Learn more about the Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on our website at BJConline.org/ShurdenLectures
A new Marquette University Law School poll shows the national support for confirming Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. You can read it at this link.
Read Holly’s review of Judge Jackson’s record at this link.
Segment 2: Religion in Judge Jackson’s hearings (starting at 20:43)
BJC’s website has two articles with video clips of the conversations about religion during Judge Jackson’s confirmation hearings:
- Day two, featuring clips from Sen. Lindsey Graham, Sen. John Cornyn, and Sen. John Kennedy
- Day three, featuring clips from Sen. Cornyn and Sen. Jon Ossoff
During the podcast, we played clips involving questions from Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina; Sen. John Kennedy, R-Louisiana; Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas; and Sen. Jon Osoff, D-Georgia.
Segment 3: Virginia Thomas and January 6: Texts and Christian nationalism conversations (starting at 41:57)
The Washington Post broke the story in this article by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa article: Virginia Thomas urged White House chief to pursue unrelenting efforts to overturn the 2020 election, texts show
Amanda also tweeted about the jaw-dropping story.
Holly mentioned this opinion piece by Michael Gerson at The Washington Post: What the Ginni Thomas text furor warns about an outsize role of faith in politics
Read the report on Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection, a joint project between BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement online.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
Christian nationalism is one of the great threats to religious freedom in America, and there’s a new, comprehensive report on the role it played in the January 6 insurrection. Amanda and Holly take a look at what the report tells us, BJC’s experience working with Freedom From Religion Foundation on this expansive project, and the reactions we continue to see. They discuss the different ways people – including researchers – view Christian nationalism, and they talk about what you can do to start to move the needle against this ideology so entrenched in our society.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1: Why do we need a report on Christian nationalism and January 6? (starting at 00:52)
The new report – Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021, Insurrection – is available for free download at the following links:
https://bjconline.org/jan6report/
https://www.christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org/jan6report
https://ffrf.us/jan6report
Watch the webinar releasing the report at this link.
Right after the January 6 attack, Amanda wrote this article for Good Faith Media: An Attack Done in Jesus’ Name
You can access the BJC Podcast series called “The Dangers of Christian Nationalism” at this link, including discussion guides for each episode. You can also visit the BJC Podcast feed on your favorite provider and scroll back to those episodes from 2019.
Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement at https://www.christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org/
To learn more about the genesis of the report, see Chrissy Stroop’s piece for Religion Dispatches: New Report on (White) Christian Nationalism and the J6 Insurrection Shows Just ‘How Dire the Threat Is’
Check out this one-page resource: “What is Christian Nationalism?”
Segment 2: A detailed breakdown of the Christian symbolism at the January 6 attack (starting at 16:38)
We played a clip of Andrew Seidel, a constitutional attorney at the Freedom From Religion Foundation who was the major contributor to the report. This portion of the webinar begins at 29:28.
Segment 3: Responses to the report (starting at 29:56)
Jack Jenkins of Religion News Service covered the report in this article: New report details the influence of Christian nationalism on the insurrection
Sarah Stankorb wrote this article for GEN magazine: White Christian Nationalism’s Threat Has Not Gone Away
Here are some actions mentioned that can help move the needle against Christian nationalism:
- If you are a Christian, sign the statement.
- Share the statement with others, including on social media.
- Watch and share webinars and resources available at: https://www.christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org/resources. Use those handouts to better define and understand the ideology, and start conversations with your social media networks.
- Lead small group discussions at your church or in your civic organization. The website has discussion guides and curriculum for different series of small group discussions.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
How do we tell a more inclusive and more critical narrative of religious liberty? How do we recognize and spotlight those who have been left out of the conversation, whether intentionally or not? This week, Amanda and Holly talk about the concept of religious freedom for all, exploring the intersections of race and religious freedom. From the racial divides among Baptist denominations to how BJC is interrogating its own history to BJC’s new Project on Race and Religious Freedom, they highlight resources from BJC and our partners. SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1: Learning to tell a more honest history and launching the Project on Race and Religious Freedom (starting at 00:44)
We always like hearing your feedback – email Amanda and Holly at respectingreligion@BJConline.org.
For more on Baptist history and BJC’s commitment to religious liberty, see the BJC website: https://bjconline.org/mission-history-baptist-heritage/
BJC has been responding to the truth that religious freedom has been white too long. Amanda wrote about what that means last year, including the quote from James Baldwin who coined the idea.
Watch the Rev. Dr. Marvin McMickle’s speech at our 2015 luncheon on the 150th anniversary of Juneteenth: https://vimeo.com/131663810
Amanda mentioned Dr. Corey D.B. Walker’s work in complicating the narrative of religious freedom. Hear him on a panel at the 2019 BJC Dinner: An Inclusive Approach to Religious Liberty.
Amanda read from the book African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities, edited by Dr. Walker and Dr. Sabrina Dent.
Segment 2: Resources from recent BJC events on race and religious freedom (starting at 20:03)
The first clip is from Dr. Nicole Myers Turner of Yale University, speaking during Religious Liberty Has Been White Too Long: Voices of Black Scholars, which was our presentation for the 2021 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures. You can watch the entire presentation at this link, featuring Dr. Turner, Dr. Teresa L. Smallwood of Vanderbilt Divinity School, Dr. Anthony Pinn of Rice University, and Dr. David Goatley of Duke Divinity School.
Holly also mentioned Dr. Turner’s book: Soul Liberty: The Evolution of Black Religious Politics in Postemancipation Virginia
The second clip is from The Most Rev. Michael Curry, Presiding Bishop of The Episcopal Church. He spoke during a webinar called “Democracy and Faith Under Siege: Responding to Christian Nationalism.” You can watch that entire presentation at this link.
Our third clip is from the Rev. William Lamar IV, Pastor of Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C. This is from a Facebook Live conversation with BJC Director of Education Charles Watson Jr. in 2021 called “What can the American church learn about Black faith freedom?” You can watch their entire conversation at this link, and visit BJConline.org/facebook-live for more conversations in our “Voices of Faith Freedom Series.”
We played two clips from Fierce Freedom, a live event held in 2021 featuring the Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis. During the clips, we heard from Dr. Lewis and then we heard a clip from a conversation after her presentation, featuring the Rev. Keisha Patrick, who is an attorney and a BJC Fellow. You can watch the entire “Fierce Freedom” presentation at this link.
For other videos and resources, visit our page of resources on race and religious freedom, available at:BJConline.org/race-and-religious-liberty/
Segment 3: Freedom Fighters and Black History Month (starting at 32:38)
Holly and Amanda mention an episode of the Ezra Klein Show, featuring Martha Jones being interviewed by Jamelle Bouie. You can listen and read a transcript at this link.
Follow BJC on Instagram as we share stories of freedom fighters throughout Black History Month. Our handle is @BJContheHill.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court’s docket is deep with cases impacting religious freedom, and we learned this week that Justice Stephen Breyer plans to retire. What does it all mean? Amanda and Holly take a look at what’s facing the Court, including recent oral arguments in the Christian flag case that deserve our attention and a new case about a coach’s prayer practice on the football field. They talk about decisions we’re waiting for, cases the Court might still take, and cases the Court declined to hear. In segment three, Amanda and Holly discuss the recent hostage crisis at a Jewish synagogue in Texas that happened the day before Religious Freedom Day, highlighting the chasm between the promise and reality of religious freedom today.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment one: Changes coming to the Court and a review of the Shurtleff v. Boston argument (starting at 00:54)
NPR broke the news about Justice Breyer’s retirement in this piece from Nina Totenberg: Justice Stephen Breyer, an influential liberal on the Supreme Court, to retire
You can see pictures from the opening of our Center for Religious Liberty in 2012, featuring remarks from Justice Breyer, in this photo album.
Amanda and Holly previewed the case of Ramirez v. Collier earlier this season in episode 2, and they talked about the oral arguments in episode 4.
Amanda and Holly previewed Carson v. Makin in episode 5 and reviewed the oral arguments in episode 7.
Amanda and Holly previewed Shurtleff v. Boston in episode 8, and the Court heard oral arguments on January 18.
We played a clip from the Shurtleff v. Boston oral argument featuring Justice Elena Kagan, which begins at 13:20 mark in the audio of the arguments, available on the Supreme Court’s website.
Holly spoke to Salon’s Kathryn Joyce for this article “Christian flag” case reaches Supreme Court: Is the Proud Boys flag next?
Segment two: Court’s docket review: a new case this term and more to come for next term? (starting at 23:02)
Amanda and Holly mention this article from Amy Howe at SCOTUSblog that mentions the Court taking up the case of Kennedy v. Bremerton: Court will take up five new cases, including lawsuit from football coach who wanted to pray on the field
You can also read about Kennedy v. Bremerton in this post on our website: Supreme Court to hear case involving high school football coach’s post-game prayer on the field
Segment three: Respecting religious freedom for all, in the face of constant threats (starting at 33:22)
You can read the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, signed January 16, 1786, at this link.
Read President Joe Biden’s proclamation for Religious Freedom Day at this link.
On Religious Freedom Day 2022, Amanda Tweeted this:
Today as we observe Religious Freedom Day, we are mindful of the ongoing threats to houses of worship across this country. We should be free to worship in synagogues, mosques, temples, meeting houses and churches without fear of violence and attack.I’m holding the people of Congregation Beth Israel in my heart as they heal from yesterday’s attack, with a grateful heart that the hostages are safe. In solidarity with Jewish communities who live with these ongoing threats. We won’t rest until there is faith freedom for all.
BJC Board Member Sofi Hersher Tweeted this after news broke about hostages taken at Congregation Beth Israel in Colleyville, Texas, on January 15, 2022:
Resist anyone and anything that seeks to position the hostage situation at Congregation Beth Israel as Jews vs. Muslims.
That kind of reductionist thinking is lazy, untrue, and helps no one.
Here’s the NPR interview with Rabbi Charlie Cytron-Walker, from the congregation Beth Israel in Colleyville, Texas: Texas Rabbi who was held hostage says we can’t live in fear
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
It’s been one year since President Joe Biden took office. What have we seen from his administration in regards to religious liberty? From executive actions to court cases to appointments, Amanda and Holly take a look at this administration’s actions that impact faith freedom for all. In segment three, they talk about how President Biden has continued to practice his private faith in a very public role over the past year.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment one: Setting the tone: Executive orders, court cases, and legislation (starting at 01:14)
Amanda and Holly previewed the incoming Biden administration at the end of 2020 with Melissa Rogers in season 2, episode 6: What’s next? The Biden administration and religious liberty. They also looked at the Trump administration’s record in season 2, episode 4: Grading the Trump administration on religious freedom.
Click here for President Joe Biden’s signing statement when he repealed the Muslim and African travel ban.
Amanda and Holly discussed the complicated relationship between vaccine mandates and religious exemptions on episode 3 of this season: What’s going on with religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccine mandates?
Amanda and Holly discussed the oral arguments in Carson v. Makin in episode 7 of this season, and they previewed the case in episode 5.
Amanda and Holly discussed Ramirez v. Collier in episode 2 and episode 4 of this season.
For more on Chí’chil Biłdagoteel (which is translated into English as “Oak Flat”) and its sacred importance to the San Carlos Apache Tribe and other tribes, read this article from Chairman Terry Rambler: Save our church from destruction.
Segment two: Presidential appointments and commissions: Substantively and symbolically important (starting at 17:35)
Amanda and Holly mention this article on the diversity in President Biden’s appointments, written by Yonat Shimron and published in the Washington Post: Two faiths dominate Biden’s cabinet picks
Segment three: Setting a tone and sharing personal faith (starting at 28:25)
Amanda and Holly discussed President Donald Trump’s photo op with a Bible in front of St. John’s Church in 2020 in season 1, episode 15: Protests, the president and the photo op with a Bible
Amanda and Holly recommended this article from Politico magazine by Ruby Cramer: A Private Matter: Joe Biden’s Very Public Clast with this Own Church
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Christian flag is at the center of a case the Supreme Court hears next week. Amanda and Holly preview Shurtleff v. Boston, share how this situation made it to the highest court, and look at the central legal question presented before the justices. They discuss the best arguments from both sides that the Court will consider when it determines whether this flagpole outside Boston City Hall is government speech or a public forum. In segment three, Amanda and Holly discuss the Christian nationalism aspects to the case, and they talk about the Christian flag’s history, including how this powerful symbol has been appropriated in destructive ways.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment one: Happy New Year and a peculiar case for the Supreme Court (starting at 01:09)
For a discussion of religious liberty and vaccines, listen to episode 3 of this season: What’s going on with religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccine mandates?
Read more about the Shurtleff v. Boston case in this article on BJC’s website: U.S. Supreme Court agrees to hear bit do fly Christian flag at Boston City Hall
Segment two: Is the flagpole government speech or a public forum? Arguments and amici (starting at 16:10)
You can see a list of the various parties’ amicus briefs filed in Shurtleff v. Boston and read them online on this page provided by SCOTUSblog.
Segment three: The broader context and why it matters (starting at 31:48)
Amanda mentioned this piece by Brian Kaylor and Beau Underwood at Word & Way that shares the history of the Christian flag: Has the Christian flag become a lost cause?
They also released another article with context on this case: The man behind Shurtleff v. City of Boston
For more on the overlap between Christian symbols and white supremacy, check out this webinar from the Christians Against Christian Nationalism initiative: White Christian Nationalism: How Racism Undergirds Christian Nationalism, featuring Dr. Jemar Tisby, Dr. Robert P. Jones, and Amanda Tyler.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
It’s a frustrating day at the Supreme Court when several justices seem not to care about the reasons religion gets special treatment in our constitutional system. Amanda and Holly share audio clips and their reaction to the oral arguments in Carson v. Makin, including spotting some faux outrage from the justices and how six justices seem poised to chart a new and troublesome direction in church-state law. They talk about obvious differences between determining protecting free exercise of religion and requiring taxpayer funding of religious education. In segment three, Amanda and Holly share how they are welcoming the holidays.
Segment one: Why should religion be treated differently? (starting at 00:55):
Amanda and Holly previewed the oral arguments in Carson v. Makin in episode 5: What’s the problem with the government funding religious education?
Amanda shared her first impressions of the oral arguments on Twitter. You can read her thread here. You can follow her on Twitter @AmandaTylerBJC.
We played the following clips from the oral arguments, available at this link.
*Michael Bindas, attorney for the challenge to Maine’s program: 1:31-2:09
*Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Deputy Solicitor General Malcolm Stewart, arguing on behalf of the Biden administration 1:31:36-1:32:46
Segment two: Is this a choice program? Is there discrimination between different religions? (starting at 14:40)
We played the following clips from the oral arguments, available at this link:
*Christopher Taub, attorney defending Maine’s program: 42:54-44:14
*Justice Elena Kagan: 29:15-30:04, and then 30:30-31:17
Segment three: The advent of the holiday season (starting at 29:08)
Amanda and Holly talked about this New York Times piece by Tish Harrison Warren: I’m not ready for Christmas. I need to take a minute.
Amanda wrote a devotional for Word & Way’s Unsettling Advent series. You can read her devotional here, and read the entire series here. Subscribe to get future editions sent to your inbox.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
What do you do when you’re around the dinner table or visiting family over the holidays and hear someone share misinformation? How do you have productive conversations and truthful exchanges that bring people together? From fake narratives that drive violence to the mundane myths that build a false foundation, Amanda and Holly talk about common misconceptions they hear, what they see when talking about the dangers of Christian nationalism, and how you can find areas of agreement with others. They share some specific ways they would handle difficult statements in one-on-one conversations. In segment three, Holly and Amanda talk about the pros and cons of online worship from their own experience.
Segment one: Why is misinformation such a problem in Christian communities? (starting at 00:49):
Amanda and Holly discuss this May webinar from the Council on Foreign Relations: Disinformation and Faith Communities, which featured Joan Donovan from the Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics, and Public Policy, along with Ed Stetzer of Wheaton College’s Billy Graham Center.
They also mention a piece Stetzer wrote for USA Today in September 2020: “Evangelicals need to address the QAnoners in our midst”
Amanda wrote this column for Baptist News Global about Michael Flynn’s troubling comments: If you’re paying attention to Christian nationalism, you won’t be shocked by Michael Flynn’s call for ‘one religion under God’
Segment two: Handling difficult conversations with others (starting at 14:28)
Learn more about the Christian Against Christian Nationalism campaign at christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org.
Amanda referenced this summer’s webinar: White Christian Nationalism: How Racism Undergirds Christian Nationalism
Amanda read this Tweet from author Kaitlyn Schiess:
The problem with the “confront your family about politics on Thanksgiving” thing isn’t that we can’t influence our families or shouldn’t have those conversations, it’s thinking one tense dinner will do it.
Long, compassionate faithfulness > “bold” one-time confrontation.
Here are some resources to help combat misinformation from the Christians Against Christian Nationalism website:
- Frequently asked questions
- Small group curriculum: Responding to Christian Nationalism
- Webinars, including “Confronting Christian Nationalism in Your Congregation” are at this link.
- Statement of Christians Against Christian Nationalism
Segment three (starting at 28:41): Online and in-person worship services
Amanda and Holly talked about this NPR story by Deena Prichep: Worshipers found religious homes near and far thanks to virtual services
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
A central concern for BJC in protecting faith freedom for all involves keeping the government out of religion, and that principle is at stake at the Supreme Court next week. Holly and Amanda preview the case of Carson v. Makin, talking about the Baptist beginnings of protecting religious liberty, the importance of religious education, the unique school system in the state of Maine, and how this case is different from cases involving school vouchers. After listening to this episode, you’ll also be able to impress your friends with trivia about Maine’s public school system. In segment three, they talk about a troubling article and share a warning about overreaching arguments.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment one: Why are cases about government funding important? (starting at 00:48)
Holly previewed Carson v. Makin in this article for BJC’s winter magazine: Forcing states to fund religion
Amanda mentioned this article in The Atlantic by Kimberly Wehle: The Sleeper SCOTUS Case That Threatens the Separation of Church and State
Holly read from the brief of the attorney general of Maine to describe Maine’s public education system and the law that provides school administrative units (SAUs) — alternative ways to ensure every child has an opportunity to receive the benefits of a free public education.
Segment two: Is there a free exercise right to government money? (starting at 17:10)Holly mentioned two recent cases that involved Free Exercise Clause claims challenging government programs:
Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (the playground case): Learn more at BJConline.org/TrinityLutheran
Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue: Learn more at BJConline.org/Espinoza
Read the brief BJC joined in Carson v. Makin at this link.
Amanda read from James Madison’s Memorial and Remonstrance: “Because the Bill implies either that the Civil Magistrate is a competent Judge of Religious Truth; or that he may employ Religion as an engine of Civil policy. The first is an arrogant pretension falsified by the contradictory opinions of Rulers in all ages, and throughout the world: the second an unhallowed perversion of the means of salvation.”
Amanda mentioned their conversation about Espinoza on season one, which you can listen to at this link or in your podcast feed.
Segment three: Is Maine discriminating between religions? Spoiler alert: No (starting at 32:31)
You can find the link to the article they mention in The Atlantic article linked in segment one.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court brought the execution chamber into the courtroom as it heard arguments about the activities clergy can perform at the moment of death. Amanda and Holly share clips from the arguments in Ramirez v. Collier and discuss issues raised by the justices. From questions about sincerity of religious belief to the key laws that protect the religious exercise of prisoners, hear what the justices focused on and learn about the arguments made by both sides. In segment three, Amanda and Holly discuss the roles of pastors in cases like this and how churches connect with prisoners.
Show notes
Segment one (starting at 00:43):
Amanda and Holly previewed the Ramirez v. Collier case in episode two this season — you can listen to that on your feed and access show notes at this link.
This Texas Tribune article by Jolie McCullough provides a helpful overview of the case: U.S. Supreme Court weighs religion’s place in the Texas death chamber.
During the conversation, Amanda and Holly played clips from the oral arguments. You can listen to the entire argument at this CSPAN link.
The clips played in this segment were:
- Justice Samuel Alito, starting at 16:52 in the oral argument.
- Chief Justice John Roberts, starting at 47:20 in the oral argument.
To learn more about the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (“RLUIPA”), visit BJConline.org/RLUIPA.
Segment two (starting at 19:11)
Read the brief BJC joined in the Ramirez v. Collier case at this link.
The clips from oral arguments played in this segment were:
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh, starting at 9:23 in the oral argument.
- Justice Amy Coney Barrett, starting at 1:05:31 in the oral argument.
- Justice Elena Kagan, starting at 1:26:32 in the oral argument.
Segment three (starting at 34:48)
Amanda and Holly talked about this article by Robert Barnes in the Washington Post that shares background on the pastor at the center of the case: Supreme Court considers a minister’s role at the time an inmate is put to death
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
This week, Amanda and Holly explore questions swirling around vaccine mandates and religious exemptions related to COVID-19. Is there a newfound religious awakening that is leading to new requests? Are people gaming the system? Dive into the issue that is on the mind of employers, government officials and individuals across the country. Amanda and Holly discuss the religious liberty rationale for religious exemptions, the compelling government interest in mandating vaccines and how those values have been balanced in the past and in dealing with the present pandemic. They also talk about some of the difficult decisions employers are facing as they try to keep their workforce safe, healthy and productive. In the third segment, they look at the broader impact of COVID-19, including new reports on the trustworthiness of clergy when it comes to this topic.
Show notes:
Segment one: Why do we have religious exemptions for any laws, and why do we see so many requests right now? (starting at 00:50)
Amanda and Holly discussed the COVID-19 pandemic and its intersections with religion and religious liberty at length in season one. See the following episodes:
- Lawsuits challenging COVID-19 directives (S1, Ep. 10, released April 23, 2020)
- Christian nationalism during the coronavirus pandemic (S1, Ep. 11, released April 30, 2020)
- Finding the right response to reopening (S1, Ep. 14, released May 21, 2020)
Holly wrote an article about religious exemptions to vaccines mandates for BJC’s fall 2021 magazine, which you can read at this link.
Segment two: Employers dealing with the novel issue of employees claiming exemptions (starting at 15:17)
Amanda mentioned watching a hearing talking about vaccine mandates — you can read a recap and see clips in this piece on our website: House subcommittees hold joint hearing on vaccine mandates and employee accommodations
Here’s a link to the guidance issued by the EEOC about what is required by Title VII: https://www.eeoc.gov/newsroom/eeoc-issues-updated-covid-19-technical-assistance-0
For the latest news on these issues, visit the latest news section of our website.
Segment three: Where are we now with COVID-19, and how are clergy part of the conversation? (starting at 28:43)
Holly mentioned this article by Zeynep Tufekci in the New York Times: The Unvaccinated May Not Be Who You Think
Amanda mentioned this article by Michelle Boorstein in the Washington Post: New survey: Most U.S. churchgoers trust their clergy for covid vaccine guidance, but clergy aren’t really offering it
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
The Supreme Court is about to hear arguments in a type of case it usually addresses in its emergency or “shadow” docket: Questions surrounding clergy and religious exercise in the execution chamber. Amanda and Holly review the issue by considering cases over the past few years, including how the justices have shifted over time, with strong words from Justice Elena Kagan and the arrival of Justice Amy Coney Barrett. In segment two, they dive into the first religious liberty case the Court will hear oral arguments this term in Ramirez v. Collier (starting at 14:50), including the statute at the heart of the case: RLUIPA. In segment three, Amanda and Holly step back to discuss their personal experiences visiting death row early in their legal careers.
Show notes:
Segment 1: Recapping the past few years of clergy in the death chamber (starting at 00:51)
Visit the website of the Death Penalty Information Center for statistics and research around the death penalty and its application.
The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act is often abbreviated “RLUIPA.” Learn more at BJConline.org/RLUIPA.
Visit the latest news section of our website to read about previous Supreme Court cases involving clergy in the execution chamber.
Amanda Tyler wrote a 2019 column for Religion News Service about the different outcomes in the Dunn v. Ray (Alabama) and Murphy v. Collier (Texas) cases. Read it at this link.
Segment 2: SCOTUS takes a case about clergy in the execution chamber on its regular docket (starting at 14:50)
BJC joined this brief in the Ramirez v. Collier case with the Christian Legal Society and other groups. Read more on our website.
Holt v. Hobbs was a 2015 case regarding a Muslim inmate’s request to grow a one-half-inch beard in accordance with his faith. Learn more at BJConline.org/HoltvHobbs.
Segment three: Personal reflections on visiting death row (starting at 28:10)
To learn more about the abolition of the death penalty in Virginia, check out this piece by Dakin Andone for CNN: Why Virginia’s abolition of the death penalty is a big deal for the state and the US
Amanda read from this piece by Elizabeth Breunig for The Atlantic: The State of Texas v. Jesus Christ
Linda Greenhouse asked the question “Why did the Supreme Court stop this particular execution?” in the New York Times.
Adamp Liptak previewed the Ramirez case for the New York Times in this article: Supreme Court Stays Execution in Dispute Over Pastor’s Role in Death Chamber
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.
As we kick off season three of Respecting Religion, Amanda and Holly take a look at where we’ve been and the big cases the Supreme Court will hear this term. They dig into doctrinal shifts at the Court and recent studies about religion cases, explaining what the numbers don’t show. In segment two, they dive into the Supreme Court’s 2021 decision in Fulton v. Philadelphia (15:55), involving a faith-based group’s voluntary partnership with the government to administer a foster care program. The decision hinged on a single line in a contract, and they share why it’s not as sweeping a decision as the 9-0 outcome might make it seem. In the third segment, hear what Amanda, Holly, and BJC have been doing since we last gathered for a podcast — from new school routines to calling out Christian nationalism.
SHOW NOTES:
Segment 1 (starts at 01:05): A humdinger of a term
The new podcast photo was taken during our BJC Fellows Reunion in February 2020. You can read about it in our spring 2020 magazine. Make sure you are subscribed to our new feed called Respecting Religion and not BJC Podcast.
Amanda was live on Instagram on the first day of the Supreme Court’s new term. You can watch a recording here.
Amanda and Holly mentioned some previews of the upcoming term:
The Supreme Court’s conservatives cook up a stew of abortion, guns, religion and more by Nina Totenberg at NPR
Supreme Court docket shows growing role as arbiter of religious freedom by Pamela Manson at UPI
Back on the Bench, the Supreme Court Faces a Blockbuster Term by Adam Liptak at the New York Times
They also mentioned this article by Adam Liptak at the New York Times: An Extraordinary Winning Streak for Religion at the Supreme Court. You can find the study referenced in that article at this link.
Amanda read a quote from John Leland, a Baptist pastor in the late 18th/early 19th century, who famously said, “The fondness of magistrates to foster Christianity, has done it more harm than all the persecutions ever did. Persecution, like a lion, tears the saints to death, but leaves Christianity pure: state establishment of religion, like a bear, hugs the saints, but corrupts Christianity, and reduces it to a level with state policy.”
Segment 2 (starts at 15:55): Fulton v. Philadelphia
Learn more about the case of Fulton v. Philadelphia at this link, and read BJC’s brief supporting the city of Philadelphia here. Amanda and Holly discussed oral arguments in the case during season 2 of Respecting Religion. You can read Holly’s analysis of the case for SCOTUSblog at this link.
Read the decision by Chief Justice John Roberts and the 70-page concurrence by Justice Samuel Alito at this link.
To read about BJC’s involvement in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case and our brief filed supporting the state of Colorado, visit BJConline.org/Masterpiece.
Segment 3 (starts at 29:43): What else has been going on?
BJC hosted two webinars about the dangers of Christian nationalism in 2021:
Democracy and Faith Under Siege: Responding to Christian Nationalism (January 2021)
White Christian Nationalism: How Racism Undergirds Christian Nationalism (July 2021)
Read the statement supported by more than 23,000 Christians standing against Christian nationalism and add your name at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
You can also download a free curriculum on responding to Christian nationalism on the website.
Amanda recommended The Ezra Klein Show featuring a conversation with Ta-Nehisi Coates and Nikole Hannah-Jones. You can listen and read a transcript at this link.
Listen to the BJC Podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism and access discussion guides at this link, or visit our BJC Podcast feed and scroll back to 2019.
BJC hosted a “Voices of Faith Freedom” series throughout the year to hear various perspectives on faith freedom. You can view them on this page or by visiting BJC’s Facebook page.
Welcome to the new podcast feed for Respecting Religion! Join BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman for new conversations on religion and the law, including the most significant cases concerning religion and religious liberty at the U.S. Supreme Court. This season, they'll be discussing government funding of religious schools, the religious liberty rights of prisoners, Christian nationalism and flag flying, the continuing debates about religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccination mandates, and more.
As lawyers and people of faith, Amanda and Holly think these topics deserve respectful conversation -- something that we don’t always hear in the public square or in our social media feeds.
Look for new episodes to be released each Thursday, starting October 21, 2021.
Race and religion are topics at the forefront of the U.S. Senate race in Georgia between Sen. Kelly Loeffler and the Rev. Dr. Raphael Warnock. On this bonus episode of Respecting Religion, we bring you a conversation between BJC Director of Education Charles Watson Jr. and Executive Director Amanda Tyler about what happens when ministers become candidates. In this dialogue broadcast live on December 2, they go beyond partisan politics and dive into the sensitive topics, discussing the implications of using sermons in attack ads, the power structure of whiteness, Christian nationalism, liberation theology, double standards and how you can’t ignore the racial components at play right now. Plus, they ask a serious question: How do the attacks against the Rev. Warnock compare to similar attacks on the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. during his time?
Show notes:
You can watch this conversation on BJC’s Facebook page at this link.
Brian Kaylor of Word & Way wrote a story on the conversation, and you can read his article here.
The Rev. Dr. Raphael Warnock was the keynote speaker for BJC’s 2016 symposium on religious liberty and the Black church, held at the Howard University School of Divinity. Watch his entire presentation here, and see a highlight video here.We also have a website page dedicated to the event: BJConline.org/HowardSymposium.
Read and sign the statement standing against Christian nationalism at christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org.
Visit BJC’s page on resources related to race and religious liberty at this link.
The 2021 Religious Liberty Essay Scholarship Contest asks students to write about members of the clergy running for political office. Read the full writing prompt and details at BJConline.org/contest. It is open to all high school juniors and seniors, and entries are due March 26, 2021.
If you would like to continue this conversation with your church or in other contexts about liberation theology or other topics discussed today, reach out to Charles Watson Jr.
In our season finale, we look to the future and the potential ways the Biden administration could impact religious liberty. Our guest for this episode is Melissa Rogers, former executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships during the Obama administration. Amanda, Holly and Melissa discuss the need for an administration to be organized at the outset and ready for issues that are going to impact religious liberty, both explicitly and implicitly. There is a key difference between an administration making unforced errors and actions that inflame the culture wars. Plus, the trio reviews the religious liberty impact of the Trump administration and the centuries of partnership between the government and religious organizations.
Segment 1: Why do we need priorities for the next administration? (Starting at 00:47)
Melissa Rogers is the author of Faith in American Public Life, which is available wherever books are sold.
The report for the Brookings Institution written by Melissa and E.J. Dionne is titled “A Time to Heal, a Time To Build.” You can read it online.
Melissa was previously on the BJC Podcast in 2019 alongside Rabbi David Saperstein and Holly Hollman during our series on the dangers of Christian nationalism. You can listen here and watch a video of the podcast here.
Amanda and Holly talked about the Trump administration’s record on religious liberty in episode 4 of this season.
Segment 2: What does the next administration need to keep in mind? (Starting at 21:29)
Amanda mentioned this piece that Melissa wrote for The Washington Post: President Trump just unveiled a new White House ‘faith’ office. It actually weakens religious freedom.
Melissa mentioned the conversation BJC hosted in 2019 on an inclusive approach to religious liberty, featuring Amanda, Dr. Corey Walker, and Dr. Linda McKinnish Bridges. You can watch it at this link.
Join the BJC Advocacy Team: BJConline.org/subscribe.
Join the BJC Book Club to participate in a group discussion as we read through Melissa’s book Faith in American Public Life. We will be meeting on Tuesday nights in January, and it’s free to join: BJConline.org/BookClub.
Segment 3: Thanks for a great year of Respecting Religion! (Starting at 45:02)
Thank you, listeners, for joining us for 26 episodes of Respecting Religion as we’ve navigated the twists and turns of 2020. We hope that we’ve met our goal of highlighting some of the most important questions and topics respecting religion in the context of all that this year has thrown at us — a global pandemic, reckoning with systemic racism and white supremacy, hugely consequential presidential election, shifts in the Supreme Court and more. This year has taken us all on a wild ride, and we are glad we could slow down a bit and give these important stories their due.
Subscribe to the BJC Podcast on your favorite platform to keep up with what’s next! We’re on all the major providers: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, Amazon Music, Stitcher, and more.
This summer, the coronavirus pandemic raised novel new questions about religious freedom and government powers. Now, as we head toward winter, what have we learned? Amanda and Holly talk about the latest actions from this surprisingly emotional Supreme Court. Starting with Justice Samuel Alito’s November speech to the Federalist Society (starting at 08:12), they then break down the Thanksgiving eve decision that overturned New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s limits on worship in coronavirus hotspots (20:03) and talk about what it might mean for restrictions in other places. Learn more about what’s at stake for religious freedom in these court cases and the importance of comparing apples to apples.
Segment one: What’s happened in challenges to government restrictions on in-person worship services so far? (starting at 00:47)
Amanda and Holly talked about the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on religion and religious freedom in four episodes of season one of Respecting Religion:
Episode 6: Stay-at-home orders, religious freedom, and RFRA
Episode 8: Religious freedom in the age of coronavirus
Episode 10: Lawsuits challenging COVID-19 directives
Episode 14: Finding the right response to reopening
Holly mentioned two cases from earlier this year: South Bay United Pentecostal v. Newsom (California) from May and Calvary Chapel v. Sisolak (Nevada) from July.
Read more about the Thanksgiving eve decision in Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v. Andrew M. Cuomo (New York) on BJC’s website at this link.
Amanda and Holly talked about the speech Justice Samuel Alito gave to the Federalist Society during the 2020 National Lawyers Convention on November 12. You can watch the entire speech at this link. The clip we played is from 35:05-35:41.
Segment two: Supreme Court sniping in the New York decision (20:03)
For a humorous take on comparing like things to like things, check out this editorial from Brian Kaylor, the editor of Word & Way: Treating Costco like my church.
The really important free exercise case at the Supreme Court this year is Fulton v. Philadelphia. Learn more at BJConline.org/Fulton.
Segment three: Individual liberty and the common good (40:32)
Holly mentioned this Religion News Service (RNS) story by Jack Jenkins: Biden says Americans can worship in person ‘safely.’ But what does that mean?
Amanda mentioned this op-ed by Pope Francis that came out on Thanksgiving Day in The New York Times: A Crisis Reveals What Is in Our Hearts
What do we make of the Trump legacy when it comes to religious freedom? Go beyond the sound bites and confusing statements as Amanda and Holly analyze what really happened over the past four years. They note areas of agreement, instances where religious language was used to divide, how high-level appointments mattered, proliferations of religious exemptions, Betsy DeVos and the shift of public funds to religious schools, and what it all means for the future of religious liberty in our country.
Segment 1: Divisive tactics and confusing statements (starting at 00:49)
Holly was in this NPR story by Tom Gjelten: Religious Freedom Arguments Give Rise To Executive Order Battle
For more on the protections of the Johnson Amendment, visit BJConline.org/JohnsonAmendment
Read Attorney General Bill Barr’s 2019 speech at Notre Dame Law School at this link.
Read Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s 2019 speech titled “Being a Christian leader” at this link.
In season one, Amanda and Holly talked about religion and the public schools on episode 3 and episode 19.
For more on the president’s photo-op with a Bible, listen to episode 15 from season one.
Segment 2: Religious exemptions and the legacy of Betsy Devos (starting at 19:28)
Amanda and Holly discussed the contraceptive mandate in the Affordable Care Act last season in episode 20 and episode 12.
Listen to episode 2 from this season for a full discussion of the Fulton v. Philadelphia case or visit BJConline.org/Fulton
For more on the Trinity Lutheran case, visit BJConline.org/TrinityLutheran
For more on the Espinoza case, visit BJConline.org/Espinoza
Holly and Amanda mentioned the Department of Justice memo that didn’t say much about the Establishment Clause. Read it at this link.
Segment three: Season of gratitude (starting at 38:53)
Thank you for joining us each week! We are taking Thanksgiving off, but join us again the first week of December.
How did Christian nationalism show up on the campaign trail and at the ballot box? What is the possibility for religion to be a positive and unifying force for our politically divided country? How did President-elect Joe Biden talk about religion in his acceptance speech? Amanda and Holly look at religion and politics this election season — the good, the bad and the confusing.
Segment one: Christian nationalism in the 2020 election (starting at 00:52)
For more on the political ideology of Christian nationalism, visit BJConline.org/ChristianNationalism
Read and sign the statement at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org
Amanda mentioned two episodes from season one to take a deeper dive on Christian nationalism:
- Episode 11: Christian nationalism during the coronavirus pandemic
- Episode 15: Protests, the president, and the photo op with a Bible
For more on the speech by Vice President Mike Pence on Old Glory, read this Religion News Service story by Jack Jenkins and Emily Miller: Citing Scripture, Pence switches out Jesus for the American flag in convention speech
For more resources from BJC on the Johnson Amendment, visit BJConline.org/JohnsonAmendment
Amanda mentioned Andrew Whitehead and Samuel Perry and their book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States
Read the one-page explainer on Christian nationalism at this link.
Samuel Perry tweeted about the importance of noting a voter’s proclivity toward Christian nationalism to see who they supported. Read his Tweet here.
Holly mentioned the work of Robert P. Jones at PRRI about how the percentage of the voting populace that identifies as religious is shrinking. You can read their many different research studies on their website.
Amanda mentioned this opinion piece by Elizabeth Bruenig in The New York Times: Why Evangelicals Aren’t What They Used to Be
Segment two: Takeaways and what’s next (17:14)
For more on the video put out by Idaho lawmakers that included a handgun on a Bible, read this story by Nicole Blanchard in the Idaho Statesman: Idaho Republicans, including Lt. Gov. McGeachin, decry pandemic measures in new video
For an egregious example of Christian nationalism in a pseudo-religious setting, see this article in The Washington Post about Patriot Churches, written by Sarah Pulliam Bailey: Seeking power in Jesus’ name: Trump sparks a rise of Patriot Churches
Holly and Amanda discussed this article from The Washington Post Magazine by Richard Just: How Religion Can Help Put Our Democracy Back Together
Segment three: President-elect Biden and civil religion (33:50)
We played two clips from President-elect Joe Biden’s speech on Saturday, November 7, 2020. You can watch a video from CSPAN here.
The BJC Podcast series on the dangers of Christan nationalism ran in 2019, and all 10 episodes are available here. You can access a podcast discussion guide here.
What’s at stake in the high-profile religious liberty case at the Supreme Court this term? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman break down the oral arguments in Fulton v. Philadelphia, which centers on whether a religious organization can apply its religious criteria to discriminate when operating as a government contractor delivering foster care services. They share four takeaways and speculate about what sort of decision we might see in the case. Plus, they take a look at how religion has been discussed in terms of voting this week, including problematic implications of a religious test for office.
Segment one: What are the religious liberty issues at play in Fulton v. Philadelphia? (starting at 1:05)
For more on Employment Division v. Smith (1990) and the legislative response, visit BJConline.org/RFRA
Holly mentioned this story in the Washington Post by Michelle Boorstein: Religious conservatives hopeful new Supreme Court majority will redefine religious liberty precedents
BJC has a page dedicated to the Fulton v. Philadelphia case: BJConline.org/Fulton
Read BJC’s brief in the Fulton case at this link.
Segment two: Four takeaways from the oral arguments (starting at 19:32)
You can listen to the oral arguments in Fulton v. Philadelphia via CSPAN at this link.
We played three clips from the arguments:
- Justice Sonia Sotomayor speaking with Lori Windham, the advocate for Fulton (around 16:25 into the argument)
- Neal Katyal, the advocate for Philadelphia, talking about how Fulton’s position can lead to religions being against each other (around 1:18:04 into the argument)
- Justice Samuel Alito expressing outrage at government actors trying to impose their beliefs on religious actors (around 1:04:17 into the argument)
Learn more about the Masterpiece Cakeshop case on our website: BJConline.org/Masterpiece
Segment three: Religion and the election (starting at 44:56)
For more on the “no religious test” principle, read this article from Amanda Tyler, written in advance of the Amy Coney Barrett hearings.
What did we learn about religious freedom from the Amy Coney Barrett hearings? To kick off season two of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman put the Senate’s confirmation hearings for Justice Amy Coney Barrett into context, spotlighting the religious freedom issues raised – or politicized – during the event. And, after so much talk about the Constitution’s prohibition on a religious test for office, they ask an important question: Who was imposing a religious test during the hearings? Plus, in segment three, they look at how religion is showing up in our world today, including in a controversy with one of the Hollywood stars named “Chris” and a recent statement by Pope Francis about civil unions.
Segment one: Barrett and Ginsburg, Cruz and Cornyn (starts at 1:09)
Amanda mentioned two pieces BJC wrote about the impact and legacy of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg:
- RBG: Defender of equality, principled dissenter, faithful supporter of religious liberty by Holly Hollman, published by Baptist News Global
- Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s legacy in upholding a key religious freedom law by Holly Hollman and Amanda Tyler, published by The Christian Citizen
Click here to read BJC’s review of Judge Amy Coney Barrett’s church-state record, which was sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee before the hearings began. It includes questions BJC suggested that senators ask of her.
For clips of discussions of religious liberty during the two days of hearings that involved questions, check out these two articles by Don Byrd on the “Latest News” section of our website:
- In Day 2 of Amy Coney Barrett’s confirmation hearing, some religious liberty discussions, though little depth or insight
- Religious Liberty discussions on day 3 of Amy Coney Barrett’s confirmation hearing
Segment two: What did Judge Barrett say about religious freedom during her hearings? (17:43)
Read the most recent State of the First Amendment Survey at this link, published by the Freedom Forum Institute. It says only 4% of respondents can name “petition” as one of the five rights guaranteed by the First Amendment.
Holly mentioned the travel ban issued by President Trump in his first week in office. Read more about that case, which eventually was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court as Trump v. Hawaii: BJConline.org/travelban
Holly mentioned the upcoming Fulton v. Philadelphia case, which focuses on nondiscrimination in government-funded foster care. Learn more at BJConline.org/Fulton
Holly recently presented during a webinar on the future of the Establishment Clause, hosted by the American Bar Association (ABA). You can watch it at this link. The ABA also did a seminar on the Free Exercise Clause, which is available at this link.
Amanda wrote a commentary about Article VI and the “no religious test” principle before the confirmation hearings began. You can read it at this link, published by Good Faith Media:
This article from The Washington Post that includes the number of times “religion” was mentioned: Democrats’ non-persecution of Amy Coney Barrett.
Segment three: Where did we see religion in our world? Recent discussions on religion and LGBTQ rights in our culture (38:40)
Holly mentioned the story surrounding Chris Pratt and his church’s stance on same-sex marriage. Here’s an article from The Washington Post: The latest celebrity cause: Defending the honor of Chris Pratt.
Read more on BJC’s website about the recent statement from Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel Alito about the Court reconsidering the Obergefell case in 2015 that upheld same-sex marriage. Statement from Justices Thomas and Alito on religious liberty and same-sex marriage makes tensions worse
Amanda mentioned this New York Times article about Pope Francis and his recent support of civil unions: In Shift for Church, Pope Francis Voices Support for Same-Sex Civil Unions
The doctrine of the “ministerial exception” and the latest installment in the ongoing saga of challenges to the contraceptive mandate capped off this year’s Supreme Court term. Amanda and Holly give their analysis of those key cases impacting religious liberty and discuss how they interact with other decisions from this blockbuster year. In this season finale, Amanda and Holly also look back at our entire season of Respecting Religion and invite you to continue the conversation.
Segment 1: The ministerial exception decision (Starting at 00:40)
Amanda mentioned this New York Times article rounding up this year’s Supreme Court term by Adam Liptak: In a Term Full of Major Cases, the Supreme Court Tacked to the Center.
Starting at 4:47, the cases regarding the “ministerial exception” are Our Lady of Guadalupe School v. Morrissey-Berru and St. James School v. Biel. You can read Justice Samuel Alito’s majority opinion and the concurrence and dissents at this link.
Amanda and Holly talked about oral arguments in the case on Episode 13: Who’s a ‘minister’ and who gets to decide?
Learn more about the 2012 Hosanna-Tabor decision that was a precursor to the latest ministerial exception cases at BJConline.org/hosanna-tabor.
Read Holly’s statement on the decision in this post on BJC’s website.
Read Amanda’s Twitter thread reacting to both decisions issued the same day at this link.
Holly and Amanda discussed the decision in the Title VII cases in Episode 17: A landmark case for LGBTQ rights: What’s next for religious liberty?
Read and listen to the NPR story by Tom Gjelten that featured Holly Hollman: Recent SCOTUS Decisions On Religion Open Up New Questions.
Segment 2: The contraceptive mandate decision (starting at 22:47)
The Trump v. Pennsylvania case regarding the contraceptive mandate was consolidated with Little Sisters of the Poor Saints Peter and Paul Home v. Pennsylvania. You can read the decision by Justice Clarence Thomas and the concurring and dissenting opinions at this link.
Amanda and Holly talked about the oral arguments in this case in Episode 12: Not a charm: Contraceptive mandate returns to the Supreme Court for the third time.
The “Affordable Care Act” is often referred to as the “ACA.”
Holly mentioned BJC’s brief with Professor Douglas Laycock in the Zubik v. Burwell case – learn more about that and read the brief at BJConline.org/Zubik.
For more on this case, including reaction from Holly, read this post on BJC’s website.
Segment 3: Looking back at season one (starting at 37:13)
See a list of all 20 episodes of Respecting Religion by visiting BJConline.org/RespectingReligion.
Amanda and Holly examine the troubling Supreme Court ruling that has major implications for funding education and protecting against government-sponsored religion. They break down the decision in Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue, including a concurrence that would undermine the entire Establishment Clause and the different angles taken by the dissenting justices. In segment three, Amanda and Holly share ways they are seeing religion respected in the world around us.
Segment 1: Understanding the Espinoza decision and its application of an earlier case (Starting at 00:40)
For resources from BJC on the case of Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue, visit BJConline.org/Espinoza.
To hear Holly and Amanda’s February discussion on the Espinoza case, listen to episode 2 of this podcast series.
For more background on the 2017 Trinity Lutheran v. Comer case (involving a playground resurfacing in Missouri) that Amanda and Holly mentioned as a precursor to this case, visit BJConline.org/TrinityLutheran.
Read the Espinoza opinion by Chief Justice John Roberts; concurrences by Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel Alito, and Justice Neil Gorsuch; and dissents by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Justice Stephen Breyer, and Justice Sonia Sotomayor at this link.
Amanda and Holly mention “no-aid” provisions during this conversation, which are clauses often found in state constitutions to make sure taxpayer money does not fund religion. The principle that government should not fund religious activities or interfere in religious doctrine is deeply rooted in our country’s religious liberty tradition, recognizing the distinctiveness of religion and protecting against government advancement and interference in religion.
Segment 2: The dissents and BJC analysis of this landmark case (starting at 16:35)
Read Holly’s analysis of Espinoza for the symposium on SCOTUSblog: What’s ‘the use’ of the Constitution’s distinctive treatment of religion if it is disregarded as discrimination?
Amanda mentioned reports that the Trump administration plans to push for tax money for religious schools, check out this article from McClatchy by Francesca Chambers: Trump to seek funds for private, religious school scholarships in COVID recovery bill.
Segment 3: Religion respected in the world around us (starting at 32:42)
Holly and Amanda mentioned this CNN article featuring college students: Finding God in the unlikeliest of places.
Holly and Amanda also discussed this video from NPR featuring five descendants of Frederick Douglass reading and responding to his famous speech, “What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?”
We’re bringing you important conversations on white supremacy and American Christianity in this episode. First, we’ll play the June 26 discussion between researcher Robert P. Jones of PRRI and journalist Adelle Banks from Religion News Service (starting at 2:14). Jones is the author of the forthcoming White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity, and he talks with Banks about the church’s current “moment of reckoning” across denominational lines, particularly as white churches have been either blind to their part in systemic racism or have ignored it. This podcast also features Amanda’s call to action from the June 26 event, including the dangers of Christian nationalism (25:39). We’re also bringing you part of a follow-up conversation with BJC’s Charles Watson Jr. and Dr. Alphonso Saville of Georgetown University (37:48), where they discuss a wide range of issues, including how arguments can inform how we proceed and the importance of understanding history.
Segment 1: Robert P. Jones and Adelle Banks discuss white supremacy and American Christianity (Starting at 00:40)
To watch the entire BJC Luncheon, featuring the national conversation on white supremacy and American Christianity, visit this YouTube link.
Robert P. Jones is the author of The End of White Christian America (2017) and the forthcoming White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity.
If you would like an autograph for your book, you can pre-order White Too Long and email a copy of your proof of purchase and your mailing address to to sspublicity@simonandschuster.com with the subject line “WHITE TOO LONG Bookplate.” (Note that this offer is only available in the United States)
Segment 2: Our call to action (starting at 25:31)
Read and sign the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement at https://www.christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org/.
Hear the episodes in the 10-part podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism – and see other resources related to the initiative – by visiting https://bjconline.org/christiannationalism/.
Segment 3: Charles Watson Jr. and Dr. Alphonso Saville IV (starting at 31:30)
Read more about Dr. Alphonso Saville at this link.
Hear the entire conversation with Watson and Saville at this link on BJC’s Facebook page.
This week, the Supreme Court issued a landmark case for LGBTQ rights, interpreting Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to prohibit employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Amanda and Holly discuss the opinion and the dissents, looking at the way each interprets “because of sex” in the statute. They also talk about how the opinion and dissents discuss implications for religious liberty, as well as responses to the case from the community. In the final segment, Amanda and Holly discuss and recommend recent movies and podcasts and invite you to join upcoming conversations about religious liberty, race, white supremacy and American Christianity.
Segment 1: The Supreme Court decision in the Title VII cases (Starting at 00:40)
Amanda and Holly previewed the Title VII cases in Episode 5, which you can hear at this link. The three consolidated “because of sex” cases are Bostock v. Clayton County, Altitude Express Inc. v. Zarda, and Harris Funeral Homes v. EEOC.
Amanda mentioned this story on Gerald Bostock, written by Samantha Schmidt for The Washington Post: Fired after joining a gay softball league, Gerald Bostock wins landmark Supreme Court case.
They mentioned the coverage of the decision in The New York Times, by Adam Nagourney and Jeremy W. Peters: A Half-Century On, an Unexpected Milestone for L.G.B.T.Q. Rights.
To read the opinion by Justice Neil Gorsuch and dissents by Justice Samuel Alito and Justice Brett Kavanaugh, visit this link.
Segment 2: How does religious liberty fit into this? (starting at 16:30)
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act is often referred to as “RFRA,” which sounds like “Riff-rah.” Learn more about it at this link.
Segment 3: Movie and podcast recommendations and invitations to join us in conversation (starting at 31:30)
Amanda recommended this episode of The Ezra Klein Show podcast, featuring a conversation with Cyrus Habib.
Holly recommended the movie Just Mercy, which is currently available to watch for free on several different streaming platforms.
Amanda recommended the documentary Emanuel, which is available to rent on streaming platforms.
You can watch a live Facebook conversation on Juneteenth with Amanda and BJC Director of Education Charles Watson Jr. on Friday, June 19, at 1 p.m. on BJC’s Facebook page.
Join us for a national conversation on white supremacy and American Christianity on Friday, June 26, at noon Eastern Time. The livestream is free, but you must register to attend. Visit BJConline.org/luncheon for details.
As the conversation about racial justice continues in our country, we dig in to talk about race and religious liberty. BJC Director of Education Charles Watson Jr. joins Amanda and Holly for a personal conversation about his experiences and how his work at BJC intersects with the work for racial justice. He tells his story and explains how a seminal speech at a BJC Luncheon on Juneteenth impacted the trajectory of his work at BJC. Amanda, Holly and Charles discuss how different ethnic communities view the phrase “separation of church and state” and why the work for religious freedom matters. Plus, in the third segment, they discuss how they are seeing religion respected in books and articles this week.
Segment 1: Introducing Charles Watson Jr. and a pivotal moment in 2015 (starting at 00:40)
Hear episode 15 of the podcast about the protests and the president’s photo op with a Bible at this link.
You can read a list of BJC’s current supporting Baptist bodies on our website at this link.
Last week, BJC published Amanda’s reflections on responding to racial injustice and the work of BJC’s Special Committee on Race and Religious Liberty, which began in the fall of 2019: Reflections in solidarity: Our work to do.
Holly mentioned this article about religious activism, distributed by Reuters and published by The New York Times: After George Floyd’s Death, a Groundswell of Religious Activism.
For more about the vigil various churches participated in on 16th Street in Washington, check out this article from the D.C. neighborhood blog Popville: Vigil Against Racism starts at 5pm on 16th Street NW.
Watch the Rev. Dr. Marvin A. McMickle’s 2015 speech on Juneteenth at this link.
Juneteenth is June 19, one of the most popular celebrations of the abolition of slavery in the United States. On that date in 1865, news about the Emancipation Proclamation finally made its way to the state of Texas in an order from the Union army.
Read about the domestic terrorism committed in Charles’s hometown of Millen, Georgia, in 1919 at Carswell Grove Baptist Church with reporting by The New York Times: After a Summer of Racial Violence Across the U.S., a Century of Neglect.
Segment 2: Broadening our understanding of religious freedom and the separation of church and state (Starting at 20:34)
Since 2015, BJC names 10 young professionals each year as BJC Fellows. Learn more about the program at this link.
Learn more about the Newseum program that 2015 BJC Fellow Dr. Sabrina Dent led on religious freedom and African American perspectives at this link.
The Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement includes the phrase, “It often overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation.” Read the entire statement and add your name by visiting christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org.
Segment 3: Respecting religion in our culture (starting at 40:24)
The Reuters story Holly mentions is the same as the one referenced in segment one: After George Floyd’s Death, a Groundswell of Religious Activism.
Charles mentioned the book Long Shot: The Triumphs and Struggles of an NBA Freedom Fighter by Craig Hodges.
You can hear a conversation with Robert P. Jones and journalist Joy Reid about white supremacy and American Christianity at our BJC Luncheon, which will be a virtual event on June 26. Learn more and register for free at BJConline.org/luncheon.
After President Trump publicly addressed the unrest following the killing of George Floyd, peaceful protesters were violently dispersed and the president posed for a photo holding a Bible in front of a church. This week, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman talk about the photo op and what it means in terms of religious liberty and Christian nationalism. They also review the most recent legal developments related to houses of worship and the coronavirus, including a late-night Supreme Court order and an unexplained change on the CDC’s guidance for houses of worship. In the third segment, Amanda and Holly answer listener questions and share important books for self-reflection and action to take a stand against systemic racial injustice.
Segment 1: New developments related to religious liberty, presidential statements and the coronavirus (starting at 00:40)
Amanda shared her reflections on responding to racial injustice in this piece on BJC’s Medium channel: Reflections in solidarity: Our work to do
See President Trump’s comments from Friday, May 22, about re-opening houses of worship at this C-SPAN link.
The story Holly mentioned on the changing CDC guidelines is this article by Lena H. Sun and Josh Dawsey for The Washington Post: White House and CDC remove coronavirus warnings about choirs in faith guidance. Read the original guidance for houses of worship from the CDC at this link, and read the current version at this link, which no longer includes the suggestion to consider suspending or decreasing choirs and congregational singing as “singing may contribute to transmission of COVID-19.” You can view a report on the CDC’s website about the spread of COVID-19 at a choir practice in Skagit County, Washington, at this link.
Read the Supreme Court’s order from May 29 denying a church’s request to halt California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s restrictions on in-person worship services at this link.
You can hear their earlier discussion on various lawsuits regarding stay-at-home orders and the importance of comparing like things to like things on episode six of this podcast series.
Segment 2: A photo op in the middle of protests about racial injustice (Starting at 19:15)
Holly mentioned this article by Toluse Olorunnipa and Sarah Pulliam Bailey in The Washington Post. The online title is Trump’s naked use of religion as a political tool draws rebukes from some faith leaders.
Amanda quoted this Episcopal News Service article by Egan Millard about the fire in St. John’s Church, which quotes both Rev. Rob Fisher and Bishop Mariann Budde: Fire causes minor damage to St. John’s, the ‘church of presidents’ in Washington, during night of riots.
Amanda Tweeted this statement after the president’s photo op: “The Bible is not a prop. A church is not a photo backdrop. Trump’s version of Christianity provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation. My fellow Christians who feel the same: join us in denouncing #Christiannationalism.”
Amanda mentioned Bishop Mariann Budde’s appearance on Anderson Cooper 360. You can read more about that interview at this link.
Read the Christians Against Christian Nationalism statement and add your name by visiting christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org.
Amanda mentioned the article written by Andrew Whitehead for Religion News Service about Christian nationalism: With Bibles and flash grenades, Trump walks the Christian nationalist walk
Segment 3: Resources for educating yourself and learning more (starting at 39:09)
Amanda mentioned the following books:
These Truths: A History of the United States by Jill Lepore
Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram X. Kendi
How to be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi
The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby
Listen to Amanda’s conversation with Jemar Tisby on our previous podcast series about the dangers of Christian nationalism at this link.
Holly mentioned the following books:
Frederick Douglass: Prophet of Freedom by David Blight
Pulpit and Politics: Separation of Church and State in the Black Church by Marvin McMickle (and you can hear Dr. McMickle’s address to BJC’s 2015 luncheon about Juneteenth at this link)
White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity by Robert P. Jones
You can hear a conversation with Robert P. Jones and journalist Joy Reid about white supremacy at our BJC Luncheon, which will be a virtual event on June 26. Learn more and register for free at BJConline.org/luncheon.
Churches are facing a barrage of challenges as they navigate whether, when and how to resume in-person worship and other gatherings during the coronavirus pandemic. This week, Amanda and Holly explore what’s at stake for churches and how religious liberty fits into these nuanced conversations (28:30). They look at what makes religion unique in the reopening landscape and respond to articles about life in our current context. Plus, find out how you can help shape a future episode of Respecting Religion – we want to hear from you!
Segment 1: What are churches doing as the country starts to re-open? (starting at 00:40)
Holly mentioned this story by Michelle Boorstein in The Washington Post about the Hopeful Baptist Church meeting again: On the first Sunday congregations could reopen, a church called Hopeful Baptist lived up to its name the first Sunday it could meet.
Holly also mentioned this story by Elizabeth Dias in The New York Times about the re-opening conversations happening in congregations across the country: After Weeks on Zoom, Churches Consider Plans to Reopen.
Segment 2: How does religious liberty fit into these conversations? (Starting at 20:26)
Amanda and Holly devoted episode 10 to the various legal challenges to COVID-19 directives. You can listen to it at this link.
Amanda mentioned this article by Brian Kaylor in Word&Way that provides an overview of the ups and downs facing congregations: More Churches Reopening as Some Close Again Amid New Outbreaks.
To read about the situation at Palermo Bible Family Church, which had a service that exposed nearly 200 people to the coronavirus, here is an article from The Los Angeles Times.
Holly and Amanda recommended this editorial by Peter Marty for The Christian Century: Churches obsessed with their right to reopen are missing the point.
Segment 3: We want to hear from you! (starting at 37:04)
To catch up on previous episodes of Respecting Religion while we take next week off, you can see a full list at BJConline.org/RespectingReligion.
Let us know what questions you want us to answer, topics you want us to cover, and articles you want us to discuss. Contact the show by sending an email to bjc@BJConline.org.
On this episode of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman discuss this week’s Supreme Court arguments in cases involving the ministerial exception, a First Amendment doctrine that makes Title VII and other employment discrimination protections inapplicable to certain employees of religious organizations. They explain what the doctrine means (5:33), what you need to know about the 2012 Hosanna-Tabor case that looms large in this term’s cases (3:55), and what to make of active questioning from the justices in this week’s oral arguments (17:20). They also comment on a related line of questioning about public schools that connects to other Supreme Court cases and areas of BJC’s work.
Segment 1: What do you need to know about a previous case to understand the ministerial exception? (starting at 00:40)
Learn more about the 2012 case that dealt with the ministerial exception (Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC) on our website at BJConline.org/hosanna-tabor.
To read the Hosanna-Tabor decision by Chief Justice John Roberts and the concurrences from Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel Alito, visit this link.
Amanda and Holly also talked about the ministerial exception and other important employment discrimination cases this term in episode 5 of this podcast series. You can listen to it here.
Segment 2: What are our takeaways from this week’s oral argument? (Starting at 15:01)
The two consolidated cases heard on Monday, May 11, are Our Lady of Guadalupe School v. Morrissey-Berru and St. James School v. Biel. You can access briefs and additional information on the cases at SCOTUSblog.
You can listen to the Supreme Court arguments at this C-SPAN link.
The clip from Justice Stephen Breyer is from about 1:05:29 in the argument.
The clip from Justice Elena Kagan is from about 43:53 in the argument.
The clip from Justice Neil Gorsuch is from 44:58 in the argument.
The clip from Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is from about 30:16 in the argument.
The clip form Justice Sonia Sotomayor is from about 13:43 in the argument.
Segment 3: How do these arguments relate to other areas of BJC’s work? (starting at 32:33)
Amanda and Holly discussed the Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue case in episode 2 of this podcast series.
Amanda and Holly also talked more about religion in public schools on episode 3 of this podcast series.
The controversy over the contraceptive mandate was back at the U.S. Supreme Court this week. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman react to the live arguments in Trump v. Pennsylvania and give the history of the contraceptive mandate, including how the Hobby Lobby and Zubik cases led to this one. They also share audio clips from key moments in the arguments and discuss what’s at stake for religious liberty when religious accommodations turn into “all-or-nothing” claims on both sides.
Segment 1: The history of the contraceptive mandate (starting at 00:40)
For more resources on the 2016 Zubik v. Burwell case (also known as the “Little Sisters of the Poor” case) and to read our brief written with Douglas Laycock, visit BJConline.org/Zubik.
Segment 2: Breaking down the arguments in Trump v. Pennsylvania (Starting at 21:33)
To listen to the oral arguments in Trump v. Pennsylvania from May 6, 2020, visit this link from C-SPAN.
The excerpts Holly and Amanda used in the podcast can be found at the following time in the oral arguments:
The clip of Chief Justice John Roberts is from around 27:44 into the arguments
The clip of Justice Stephen Breyer is from around 35:00 into the arguments
The clip of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is from around 32:44 into the arguments
The clip of Justice Sonia Sotomayor is from around 40:00 into the arguments
Segment 3: What else is happening in our world (starting at 39:30)
Next week’s consolidated cases on the ministerial exception are known as Our Lady of Guadalupe v. Morissey-Berru. Amanda and Holly discussed the issue in episode 5 of this podcast series during the second segment.
See BJC’s page of coronavirus articles and podcasts at BJConline.org/COVID-19.
To read stories we shared on Giving Tuesday Now from members of our community making a difference, visit BJConline.org/givingtuesdaynow-2020.
The dangerous political ideology of Christian nationalism is a persistent problem in our country, and continues to be during the COVID-19 pandemic. This week, Amanda and Holly talk about how Christian nationalism often contributes to confusion about religious liberty in our public discourse at this time, conflating legal and religious understandings. They review troubling rhetoric from political leaders and how to train your ears for telltale signs that someone is using religion for their own political purposes.
Segment 1: What is Christian nationalism? (starting at 00:40)
There are 10 episodes in our podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism. They are all available on this website page.
To read the statement and learn more about the movement of Christians calling out Christian nationalism, visit ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.
Segment 2: Recent examples of Christian nationalism (Starting at 14:47)
Read about President Trump’s March declaration that he wanted to have full sanctuaries on Easter Sunday in this article from Politico.
Read about the recent call with President Trump and Catholic leaders in this story from Crux.
Read about several “culture war” issues in the coronavirus pandemic, including the comparison between the treatment of mosques and churches, in this article from The New York Times.
BJC often has spoken out about the National Day of Prayer. Here is a link to a 2010 article written by Holly on the topic.
When you post on social media about Christian nationalism, Amanda recommends using the hashtag #ChristianNationalism. You can see recent tweets on the topic at this link.
Segment 3: Where did we see religion respected in our world? (starting at 33:15)
Amanda mentioned an article by Adelle Banks for Religion News Service: Black church leaders urge churchgoers to continue to ‘tele-worship’
Holly mentioned an NPR story by Tom Gjelten: Black pastors say they have trouble accessing SBA loan program
Episode 7 of this podcast series included a longer conversation on the CARES Act and the Paycheck Protection Program. It is available at this link.
Amanda mentioned an article by Michelle Boorstein in The Washington Post: Church donations have plunged because of the coronavirus. Some churches won’t survive.
As religious communities deal with bans on mass gatherings, legal disputes are popping up across the country. What’s happening now, and what could we see more of when the country begins lifting restrictions? This week, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman examine the key issues in these lawsuits (starting at 12:45) and talk about how courts are ruling in the various cases, including drive-in church services (19:42). Plus, they share how they’re learning about other religious traditions as people of faith continue to respond to the coronavirus pandemic.
Segment 1: A patchwork of orders and how the vast majority of churches are responding (starting at 00:40)
Amanda mentioned this research from PRRI that shows most Americans stayed home for Easter and oppose religious exemptions to “stay-at-home” orders.
Amanda also mentioned this story in The Washington Post: Cellphone data shows coronavirus kept churchgoers at home in every state on Easter.
Amanda shared two tragic examples of the coronavirus impacting religious communities:
The church choir in Washington state that saw members fall ill with the coronavirus after a rehearsal in March.
The death of Bishop Gerald Glenn, the pastor of New Deliverance Evangelistic Church in Richmond.
Amanda and Holly talked in general about cases and the three religious liberty principles to keep in mind on episode 8 of this podcast series. They also discussed “stay-at-home” orders on episode 6.
Segment 2: Lawsuits across the country, including drive-in churches (Starting at 17:25)
Holly mentioned DriveInMovie.com, a website with news and information about drive-in movie theaters.
Read the Department of Justice’s Statement of Interest in the Mississippi case about a church holding a service in a parking lot at this link.
For a look at some of the various cases being litigated, read this post on the “Latest News” section of our website.
Segment 3: Where did we see religion respected in our world? (starting at 41:37)
Holly talked about the American Humanist Association’s “Ask an Atheist” day, which included a Facebook Live from Greg M. Epstein, Harvard University’s humanist chaplain. You can watch it here.
Amanda mentioned this story by Aysha Khan for Religion News Service: Gift drive for the children of Muslim inmates seeks to serve the “hidden ummah.”
How do religious groups work together for the greater good? On this episode of Respecting Religion, we bring you a conversation featuring Eboo Patel, the founder of Interfaith Youth Core (starting at 13:01). In this discussion from March 2020, Patel talks about how the history behind the term “Judeo-Christian” suggests opportunities for greater religious inclusion, shares personal reflections on what it is like to be a Muslim in America today, and explains why he is optimistic about religious pluralism. Plus, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman talk about how they saw religion respected in the world during the celebrations of Easter and Passover.
Show notes:
Segment 1: Where we saw religion respected (Starting at 00:40)
Amanda mentioned her church’s rendition of Handel’s Messiah, which is available on YouTube.
Holly mentioned this piece by Michele Norris in The Washington Post: The coronavirus is depriving people of the rituals needed to process pain.
Amanda mentioned this piece in Religion News Service by Simrin Singh about the Sikh community finding new ways to celebrate Vaisakhi: Sikhs turn to online Vaisakhi
For more information on the Shurden Lectures — including an interview with Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden — visit BJConline.org/ShurdenLectures.
To learn more about the Baptist House of Studies at the Perkins School of Theology at SMU, visit this link.
The Rev. Dr. George Mason of Wilshire Baptist Church and Faith Commons interviews Patel during this discussion. To learn more about Faith Commons, visit this link.
Segment 2: Eboo Patel on the term “Judeo-Christian” and working across faiths (Starting at 13:01)
Eboo Patel’s latest book is Out of Many Faiths: Religious Diversity and the American Promise.
Patel mentioned the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign. Learn more at this link.
Patel mentioned an opinion piece by Nobel Prize winner Shirin Ebadi published in The Washington Post. It is titled “I thought the Iranian Revolution would bring freedom. I was wrong.”
Segment 3: Close (Starting at 47:42)
Videos of all three of Eboo Patel’s presentations for the 2020 Shurden Lectures will soon be available on BJC’s YouTube channel.
As the coronavirus changes everything – including the topics for this podcast series – Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman review how religious freedom principles are coming into focus. They talk about three principles that are part of many conversations during this time: the essential nature of religion for many people (04:53), why the government does not have to treat religious organizations differently when it comes to health and safety (12:00), and why the government should not fund religion (19:55). In the third segment, Amanda and Holly talk about what they are doing – and being inspired by – during this week that marks the beginning of Passover and the advent of Easter.
Segment 1: Religion is essential, but the government doesn’t have to treat religious organizations differently when it comes to health and safety. (starting at 00:40)
The front-page Washington Post story that Holly and Amanda mentioned is from April 5, titled “Coronavirus creates conflict for churches, where gatherings can be dangerous but also provide solace.” It was written by Scott Wilson, Michelle Boorstein, Arelis R. Hernández and Lori Rozsa.
Amanda read a message on COVID-19 from Timothy Stewart, the president of the Progressive National Baptist Convention. Read the entire statement at this link.
Segment 2: Government should not fund religion. (starting at 19:55)
Holly and Amanda discussed the Espinoza case on government funding of religion during episode 2 of this podcast series.
Holly mentioned the 2017 Trinity Lutheran case about funding a church playground. Learn more and read BJC’s brief at BJConline.org/TrinityLutheran.
For more information and frequently asked questions about the regulations and guidelines of the CARES Act from the Small Business Association, visit this link.
Segment 3: Where did we see religion respected in the world around us? Passover and Easter week (starting at 32:14)
Holly mentioned the article by Marc Fisher in the Washington Post titled “Flushing out the true cause of the global toilet paper shortage amid coronavirus pandemic.”
Amanda is using this matzo ball soup recipe from The New York Times.
As the country continues to grapple with the coronavirus, Congress passed and the president signed stimulus packages that impact businesses and nonprofits. But, what does this mean for houses of worship? On this week’s Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman review the Families First Coronavirus Response Act (starting at 5:35), provisions of the CARES Act (15:45) – including the Paycheck Protection Program Loans (20:10) and increased charitable giving incentives – and more. They discuss new requirements and opportunities for nonprofits and what houses of worship need to consider when determining whether to apply for financial relief programs. In the third segment, Amanda and Holly explore how religious communities are caring for people in new ways during this time.
Segment 1: Families First Coronavirus Response Act (starting at 00:40)
Read BJC’s analysis of the COVID-19 stimulus packages in a piece written by Holly on our Medium channel at this link.
Read the text of the Families First Coronavirus Response Act at this link.
For more on how the provisions apply to nonprofit organizations, check out the helpful resources from the National Council of Nonprofits at this link. The webinar Amanda referenced can be found at this link.
The resource memo from the United Church of Christ (UCC) on the Families First Coronavirus Response Act is available at this link. The UCC webinar that Holly referenced can be found at this link.
Resources from the Department of Labor on COVID-19 and the American Workplace are available at this link.
For additional resources, check out the links in BJC’s analysis on Medium.
Segment 2: CARES Act and Paycheck Protection Program (starting at 15:44)
Read the text of the CARES Act (Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act) at this link.
To access resources on previous cases on BJC’s website, visit this link.
Segment 3: Church daycare programs and how religious communities are caring for others (starting at 38:00)
Each week, Amanda and Holly talk about how they are seeing religion respected in the world around us.
Amanda mentioned this NPR story by Lulu Garcia-Navarro: Hospital Chaplains Bring Hope And Solace To COVID-19 Patients And Staff.
What does it mean for religious liberty when the government asks houses of worship not to hold services in the middle of a pandemic? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at the impact of the coronavirus on religious communities and how they are responding (starting at 6:13). Plus, they explore a key law that keeps coming up in these conversations: the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (23:03). In the final segment, Amanda and Holly share how the stay-at-home orders are impacting them and how churches are finding new ways to serve in this time.
Segment 1: How do government-issued stay-at-home orders impact religious exercise? (Starting at 00:40)
Read the Pew Forum survey on why people attend religious services at this link.
Segment 2: The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and religious exemptions (starting at 15:40)
Read about the pastor who continues to hold church services in Louisiana in this article by Daniel Silliman in Christianity Today: Pentecostal Pastor Won’t Stop Church for COVID-19.
Learn more about the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) at BJConline.org/RFRA.
For more on the current Supreme Court case examining RFRA remedies (Tanzin v. Tanvir), visit this link on our website.
Segment 3: Where did we see religion respected in our world? Religious communities react to the coronavirus (30:58)
Read the story about a pastor who preached to photos of his congregants in this story by David Wilkinson in Baptist News Global: Don’t mess with Texas, COVID-19: this church packed the pews on Sunday.
Read the story about the Alabama church that provided space to test people for coronavirus in this article by Sarah Pulliam Bailey in The Washington Post: A megachurch has helped test nearly 1,000 people for coronavirus in two days.
The coronavirus is leading many conversations this week, and we’ll talk about how it has impacted religious communities during this unprecedented time. But first, Amanda Tyler and Holly Holllman take a look at several Supreme Court cases this term that deal with protections for workers from employment discrimination that could have implications for religious organizations. They break down the term “because of sex” in Title VII (starting at 4:30) and discuss the ministerial exception (18:20), an important part of the law that protects religious organizations. On the final segment, Amanda and Holly share how the coronavirus is impacting – and showcasing – religion in the lives of Americans and how we can lean into a theology of abundance during this time (34:40).
Show notes:
Segment 1: Title VII cases and the phrase “because of sex” (starting at 00:40)
Read the Supreme Court press release announcing the postponement of oral arguments because of COVID-19 at this link.
For more resources on the three “because of sex” cases (Bostock v. Clayton County, Altitude Express Inc. v. Zarda, Harris Funeral Homes v. EEOC), Holly recommended the resources available at SCOTUSblog, including this piece wrapping up oral arguments by Amy Howe.
The podcast mentioned by Amanda is Amicus with Dahlia Lithwick. The episode featuring Dean Erwin Chemerinsky previewing the Title VII cases is available at this link.
If you want to listen to the oral arguments in the Title VII case mentioned, visit this C-SPAN link.
Segment 2: Ministerial exception case (starting at 17:22)
Learn more about the 2012 case affirming the ministerial exception on BJC’s website: BJConline.org/Hosanna-Tabor
Amanda mentioned a 2011 article Holly wrote titled “Defining the ministerial exception.”
If you want to read all of the amicus briefs in the current ministerial exception case (Our Lady of Guadalupe v. Morissey-Berru), you can see them at this link.
Segment 3: Where did we see religion in our world? The coronavirus and religious communities (starting at 34:40)
Holly mentioned articles that did a great job showing religious communities responding to the COVID-19 pandemic, including this piece on communion and rituals by Sarah Pulliam Bailey for The Washington Post.
Holly also mentioned the op-ed titled “In Italy, we live in silence, die in silence — and wait.” It was written by Monica Maggioni and published by The Washington Post.
Holly talked about a piece from George Mason and Mark Wingfield at Wilshire Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, who put their experiences during the Ebola crisis into context. It’s titled “How to lead calmly in a global outbreak,” published by Faith & Leadership at Duke Divinity School.
This year, the Trump administration released proposed regulations impacting faith-based organizations that partner with the government. But, the story has gone largely unnoticed by the media, and it can have huge implications for people receiving government services. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman discuss the history of government partnerships with faith-based groups – including “Charitable Choice” and the faith-based initiative office under President George W. Bush (6:07). They also explore the new Trump administration proposals and three major points of concern that could undermine the religious freedom rights of those who often receive government services (21:13). In the final segment, Holly and Amanda discuss how religion has been discussed during the Democratic presidential primary and what this means about how religion is respected in our conversations (36:45).
Show notes:
Segment 1: The history of charitable choice, the faith-based initiative, and long-standing partnerships between the government and religious institutions (starting at 1:15)
The White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives under the Bush administration was sometimes abbreviated “WHOFBCI,” which some pronounced as “Woof-book-ee.”
Segment 2: Comments on the proposed regulations and three major points of concern (starting at 15:30)
You can read information about the final rule issued in 2016 that extends religious liberty protections to beneficiaries at this link.
The book by Melissa Rogers that Holly recommended is Faith in American Public Life. Rogers served as the chair of the task force and later as the head of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships during the Obama administration.
For more on BJC’s comments on the proposed 2020 regulations, read this post on our website. Our comments for the various agencies are pretty similar – here is a direct link to our comments on the regulations in the Department of Veterans Affairs.
For additional resources and commentary, visit BJConline.org/resources and click on the “Government Funding of Religious Organizations” category.
Links to some of the comments discussed:
Comments from the Coalition Against Religious Discrimination (CARD): https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=HHS-OS-2020-0001-20893
Comments from Melissa Rogers: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=HHS-OS-2020-0001-22690
Comments filed by Christian Legal Society and National Association of Evangelicals: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=HHS-OS-2020-0001-21174
Segment 3: Where did we see religion in our world? The Democratic presidential primary campaign and religion (starting at 36:45)
Each week, Amanda and Holly talk about where they see religion in the world around us and what they are reading.
Amanda mentioned a Deseret News article by Kelsey Dallas titled “Why should the Democrats talk about faith if half of the country isn’t listening?”
Amanda mentioned this clip of Elizabeth Warren from a CNN Town Hall talking about religion that often circulated on Twitter.
Amanda mentioned exit polling in New Hampshire regarding how frequency of church attendance correlated with who people voted for in the primary. Read more in this Religion News Service article by Jack Jenkins: “Klobuchar wins over New Hampshire voters who attend religious services”
Amanda also mentioned Brian Kaylor, a researcher and Baptist journalist who has often written about these issues and decried the lack of polling data about religion on Super Tuesday. Read his recent Twitter thread here.
Holly mentioned a Washington Post article by Sarah Pulliam Bailey titled “Buttigieg’s candidacy made being openly gay and Christian normal, LGBT activists say.”
Has God been kicked out of the public schools? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman dig into a recent announcement from President Trump about constitutional prayer in public schools and explore the rhetoric and the reality. Hear their reactions to the Oval Office announcement (starting at 3:20), the stories behind the stories shared there (11:11), and the long history of guidelines on religion in the public schools through Supreme Court cases and consensus efforts (18:32). In the final segment, Amanda and Holly look at how religion is portrayed – and not – in the movie “Little Women” (37:35) and discuss a meditation practice in a public school.
Show notes:
Segment 1: Trump administration’s guidelines on prayer in public schools (starting at 01:08)
To watch President Trump’s announcement from the Oval Office and hear the stories shared by others during the event, visit this C-SPAN link.
The guidance from the Trump administration on religious expression in public schools is available at this link.
The government guidance on religion in the public schools from 2003 is available at this link.
To read more about the stories shared in the Oval Office, here is a Deseret News article about the teacher at the heart of the Ash Wednesday controversy and how she apologized.
Here is an article from the Washington Post from 2015 about the lawsuit regarding the student who gathered others to pray at school.
As Amanda and Holly mention in the conversation, former BJC Executive Director James Dunn often said, “As long as there are math tests, there will be prayer in schools.”
Segment 2: What does the law say about religion in public schools? (starting at 17:35)
For more resources from BJC on religion in the public schools – including a printable handout as well as pamphlets created in previous decades that turned the guidance into guidebooks – visit BJConline.org/resources.
Amanda mentions an article she wrote during Public Schools Week titled “America’s public schools protect religious liberty. We all should be #PublicSchoolProud.” Click here to read it on our Medium channel.
Segment 3: Where did we see religion in our world? The movie “Little Women,” concerns over meditation in schools (starting at 33:12)
Each week, Amanda and Holly will talk about where they see religion in the world around us and what they are reading.
Holly mentioned this Washington Post article about teachers using meditation in public schools.
Holly also mentioned this Wall Street Journal article titled “God Goes Missing in ‘Little Women.’”
Why is religion treated differently by our Constitution? In a blockbuster year at the Supreme Court, BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman examine one case that could have major implications for religious liberty law. They dig deeper intoEspinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue(starting at 1:50), talk about what people mean when they say “Blaine amendments,” explain the footnote of a previous decision that came up during oral arguments (18:20), and share their predictions for the decision. They also point out the links between this case and other events, including a troubling proposal released by President Trump during his State of the Union address (29:31). In the final segment, Amanda and Holly review how Supreme Court news continues to dominate religious liberty conversations and note how religion is being treated in news about the coronavirus (39:57).
Why do we need to talk about religion and the law? In the inaugural episode of the “Respecting Religion” podcast series, BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman recount things that have happened in the first few weeks of 2020 (starting at 4:50) and discuss the importance of understanding what’s at stake. They also share their reactions to this year’s unusually political National Prayer Breakfast (28:44), including the lessons it has for all of us. Plus, Amanda and Holly talk about their favorite rejected names for this new podcast series (16:30).
It seems like every week, there's a new story about religious liberty or an important legal development about the relationship between faith and government. Join BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman for a weekly conversation about the recent developments regarding religion and the law. We respect our country's commitment to religious liberty, and we want to give it some extra air time.
From Supreme Court cases, to new policies from the administration, to what role Congress is playing in all of it, join these two religious liberty experts as they review how religion is being respected and how we can work to protect faith freedom for all.
The podcast series begins on February 20, 2020, and new episodes will be released each Thursday.