Before You Quit: Recent Episodes
Before You Quit
In this episode, we explore powerful insights from Reimagining Church as Family by Dr. Shelly Melia, focusing on a group often overlooked in church life: single parents. Too often, churches approach single-parent families as recipients of ministry rather than vital contributors to the body of Christ. This conversation challenges that mindset and invites churches to move beyond simply serving single parents to fully including them—empowering them to lead, serve, and belong.
We discuss how many churches struggle to engage non-traditional families, especially those who arrive through seasons of pain, loss, or unexpected life changes. Instead of knowing how to respond, churches may unintentionally sideline these families. But the call of the Gospel is to function as a true family—one where every member is seen, valued, and equipped.
Drawing from her personal journey and professional expertise, Dr. Shelly Melia offers a compelling vision for transformation. As Program Director for the Master of Arts in Children’s Ministry and Family Ministry at Dallas Baptist University, and a Licensed Professional Counselor specializing in grief and resilience, Dr. Melia brings both theological depth and real-world compassion to this conversation. With over 25 years of ministry experience and a heart shaped by her own experience as a single parent, she speaks with authenticity and hope.
Her book, released in January 2026, calls churches to rethink their identity—not as institutions that provide programs, but as families that cultivate belonging. In her chapter, “Engaging and Equipping Single Parents,” she offers practical and spiritual guidance to help churches better understand and embrace the unique challenges and strengths of single-parent families.
This episode is a call to action: for churches to recognize singles and single parents not as outsiders or projects, but as essential members of the family of God—moving from consumers to contributors, and from overlooked to fully embraced.
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In this episode, we explore a powerful vision from Reimagining Church as Family: the church’s role in fostering and adoption. While not everyone is called to adopt or foster, every church is called to be a family—a place where children and parents can truly belong. As believers adopted into the household of Christ, we have a unique opportunity to reflect that same love and welcome to others. I sit down with Dr. Rich Griffith to hear his personal journey as a single dad who adopted three boys, the challenges he faced—especially in pastoral ministry—and how the church became a true community of support and family. This conversation is both honest and hopeful, showing how the gospel is put on display through fostering, adoption, and the life of the church. ABOUT RICH Rich serves as professor of Youth Ministry at Toccoa Falls College. Rich Griffith is the single dad of three (adopted) sons, Aaron and Dylan and Jamie. After some time in the U. S. Army, he has spent 29 years in Youth Ministry exclusively while working in a variety of Church and Para-Church settings including Young Life (helping to pioneer Young Life’s ministry to early adolescents called “Wyld Life”), Ministry Architects and Military Community Youth Ministries. He has been a Lead Pastor while also still serving in a variety of Youth Ministry capacities. Obviously, he is passionate about youth, families, and the Church. He is a published Author and Contributor to “The Teen Devotional Bible” as well as other Youth and Ministry related publications.
To order the book, click on the book cover
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Second intervew on the book, Reimagining Church as Family!
In this episode, we explore the powerful and often overlooked role of grandparents in God’s design for family discipleship, drawing from the vision behind Reimagining Church as Family and the work of Legacy Coalition. Larry Fowler shares his personal journey—including his move to Southern California to be closer to his family—and reflects on the spiritual legacy passed down grandparents to the future generation. Together, we discuss why grandparents rank second only to parents as a spiritual influence, why that role is so often neglected by churches, and how grandparents can step into their biblical calling—even when their adult children are not leading spiritually. From practical strategies for long-distance impact to biblical examples and a redefinition of what it truly means to be a “good” grandparent, this conversation challenges both families and churches to rethink discipleship across generations and unlock the immense national potential sitting quietly in the grandparent generation.
Deuteronomy 4:9 Only take care, and keep your soul diligently, lest you forget the things that your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. Make them known to your children and your children’s children—
About Larry Fowler – Larry Fowler is the founder of Legacy Coalition, a national ministry focused on equipping Christian grandparents to fulfill their biblical role of impacting grandchildren. His over 50 years of involvement in children’s ministry include experience as youth pastor, missionary, international trainer of children’s workers, He is the author of Rock Solid Kids, one of the best-selling children’s ministry books ever, as well as several other books on children’s ministry, parenting, and grandparenting. Larry and his wife Diane have two grown children, seven grandchildren, and live in Riverside, California.
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What does “family” really mean—and what if the church was meant to be more than just a place we attend?
In this powerful conversation, I sit down with JJ Jones to discuss his contribution to the book Reimagining Church as Family and the deeper, biblical vision of what it means to belong. When many of us hear the word “family,” we picture something like a perfect Norman Rockwell scene—but reality is often far more complex. From single parents and adoptive families to empty nesters and spiritual orphans, today’s world is filled with people searching for connection, purpose, and belonging.
JJ challenges us to rethink the role of the church—not just as a support system for families, but as family itself.
Together, we explore:
- What Scripture really says about family and belonging
- How the church can become a true spiritual home
- The meaning of being adopted into God’s family (John 1:12; Ephesians 2:19–22)
- Ministering to spiritual orphans, grandparents raising children, and those in transitional seasons
- Why every believer has a role in generational discipleship
This conversation will challenge and encourage you to see the church the way God designed it—a place where everyone belongs, grows, and is called into purpose.
If you’ve ever felt disconnected, overlooked, or unsure of your place in the church, this episode is for you.
About JJ Jones
JJ Jones, D.Min., M.Div., serves as pastor of groups at Fellowship Bible Church in Brentwood, Tennessee, and an adjunct professor at Toccoa Falls College. He has nearly 40 years in ministry and co-authored the book Reimagining Church as Family. He is passionate about equipping others to cultivate legacies of faith. He and his wife Anna live in Franklin, Tennessee, and have two children and two grandchildren.
Order the book here.
The post Podcast 159: How to Really Belong in Church (JJ Jones) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Church conflict doesn’t just hurt people—it clouds God’s glory and weakens the church’s witness to the world. While there are many causes, one often overlooked issue is that many church members haven’t been taught how to think well about pastoral authority or how to follow in a healthy, biblical way. In the wider world, “followership” is being studied more seriously, but the church has largely neglected it—or worse, confused it. Because of real concerns about abuse, many avoid talking about authority altogether. But ignoring it leaves the church vulnerable, especially in difficult seasons. This Podcast aims to help believers become wise, healthy followers who support godly leadership and contribute to a thriving church—one that ultimately brings glory to God.
Order Scott’s book here!
ABOUT SCOTT MASON:“Scott Mason spent half a career in the business world before being called to pastoral ministry. He spent 15 years serving as an associate pastor and a senior pastor at several churches of varying sizes. Some of these were established churches, and some were church plants. He has graduate degrees from the Elliot School of International Affairs at George Washington University and from Liberty Theological Seminary, as well as a Doctor of Ministry from Bethel Seminary.”
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Several months ago, former actor and apologist Kirk Cameron stepped squarely on an evangelical hornet’s nest—and didn’t flinch. On a podcast with his son, he planted his apologetical feet firmly on one of the most controversial views of hell: annihilationism, also known as conditional immortality.
The backlash was swift—but so was something else: renewed interest in a doctrine many have quietly avoided.
What is hell, really? What does the Bible actually say? And how do we square it with a just and holy God?
Now, I don’t agree with Cameron’s position—in fact, I think it’s dangerous. But I’ll say this: I’m glad we’re talking about it.
Because the full gospel isn’t just comforting—it’s confronting. It tells a story of grace and glory, but also of judgment. And we can’t afford to edit that out.
In this episode, I sit down with my go-to theology guy, Pastor Dan Samms, to dig into the biblical doctrine of hell, how it should be preached, and how we handle the tough, emotional questions that come with it.
Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He pastors Restoration Church. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh.
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We live in a broken world, and that can often leave us broken. Trauma is often the result of specific events in our lives that leave a lasting mark, often leading to a profound deep deep-seated sense of isolation and pain that can also lead us to make bad choices. A child is molested at a young age, and this event leaves a lasting mark as they grow older, finding it difficult to enjoy life, function well at work, or live in healthy relationships. A soldier sees things in war, comes home, and never talks about it with his family and friends. This is trauma. Even pastors face traumatic events. When people tell me they have been traumatized by a church, I will jokingly say, “Try pastoring for over thirty years, and I will talk to you about trauma.”
In this podcast, John Kerr and I talk about how the pastor, or any Christian for that matter, can learn the skills on how to help people going through trauma. We also desire to help you if you have experienced trauma. We also talk about how there is hope in the gospel. Jesus, by dying on the cross, experienced more trauma than we ever will. And he understands us, provides comfort and healing in the gospel, and puts the right people in our lives to help us through our painful events. You can be set free from trauma.
In Hebrews 4:15, we are given this wonderful promise: “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.”
John Kerr is a licensed counselor and graduated from Brown University. He lives in Toccoa Ga and currently working in addiction counseling.
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Choosing godly elders is essential to the health of the church. Pastor Charles Swindoll writes,
Every church is the lengthening shadow of those who lead it. Therefore, no issue is more important in any church than having the most-qualified people who model true spirituality serving in leadership as elders. This explains why the lists of qualifications in 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9 are so strict and demanding. Unfortunately, in most churches of America, the method of appointing and selecting those who lead is skewed.
In those churches, leaders are chosen by majority vote, having been selected because the candidates are good businessmen or popular among the congregation or wealthy or long-time members or well-known, impressive individuals in the community.
Nice and important as those factors may be, they have nothing to do with whether a person is qualified to be a servant leader and to be able to guide the flock of God in a way that honors the Lord Jesus Christ.
In this podcast, I interview Pastor Hobie Wood of Christ Presbyterian Church in Clarksville, GA, on his 14 years of experience choosing the right elders for your church.
Hobie is married to Hannah, and they have 3 children. He is a native of Tiger, Ga., a graduate of Clemson University (B.S.) and Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC (MDiv.). Prior to seminary and being called to be the pastor at Christ Presbyterian, Hobie and Hannah were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ (Cru) at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. He’s a rabid Clemson fan, a cyclist, and a (very) novice fly-fisherman.
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Those who grew up during World War 2 are gradually leaving us. Most who are alive are in their 90s or older. It’s important we keep their memories alive. Both my father and mother grew up in Europe and experienced the trauma of growing up under Nazi Occupation. In this podcast, I interview my 93-year-old mother about her story. Three years ago, my father passed away at the age of 93. My mother lives near us, and while diagnosed with stage three cancer, she remains independent and relatively healthy.
For an interview I did with my father, you can click here.
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Charles Spurgeon said of the Bible, “To me the Bible is not God, but it is God’s voice, and I do not hear it without awe.”
I did a quick review on Amazon of the number of books titled “Hearing God’s Voice.” I was amazed at the dozens of books written on that title. For example, Priscilla Shirer in her book, He Speaks to Me, writes, “God desires to speak to you through His Word and His Holy Spirit. By learning to listen to God’s voice and committing to obey Him, you will draw closer to God with a deeper desire to serve Him faithfully.” Did you see her distinction, “through His Word AND His Holy Spirit.”?
Is hearing God’s voice something separate from reading scripture?
Henry Blackabee, in his book Hearing God’s Voice, writes, “This book is about hearing God’s voice, and by reading it, Christians need to learn to hear God’s voice.” He argues that just as those in scripture learned to hear God’s voice, so can you.
Dr. Dan Samms and I ask, “How do we hear God’s Voice?” Our answer is, through his Word, through scripture.
Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC, and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies. Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings.
Dan wrote a book, Follow: A Handbook for Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. It’s a handy tool for guiding people through initial steps in following Jesus. You can purchase it on Amazon.com, and it is inexpensive enough that you can easily buy a copy for a friend and read it together.
Dan’s primary role at Restoration is equipping the saints to make disciples.
Email: dan@restorationamherst.org
Instagram: @roaringshepherd
Website: www.undergroundseminary.net
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To understand transgenderism, we must understand our fallen nature. God created us in his image, and this is distorted by sin. The pressure from society to accept that you are born in the wrong body only leads to fatalism and despair. The gospel, however, brings hope and points to the restoration of our God created design through the God-man, Christ Jesus. In this podcast, my cohost and I discuss the origins of transgenderism, societal pressures, and how the church can better address the issue.
Here is a sermon Pastor Dan Stegeman preached on the subject: Click the link here.
Below is the lecture Pastor Dan Stegeman gave on the subject: Click the link here.
For the Focus On the Family article on how to address transgenderism with your family, click the link here.
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John Owen wrote, “A minister may fill his pews, his communion roll, the mouths of the public, but what that minister is on his knees in secret before God Almighty, that he is and no more.” Most pastors that I know are committed to a prayer life. However, it is something that is easily neglected. The weight of the sermon and the burdens for his people will cause the pastor to look for help, and the best help comes from the Lord Jesus. King David wrote in Psalm 34:6, “This poor man called out, and the LORD heard him; He saved him from all his troubles.”
In this podcast, Pastor John Fogal discussed together the challenges for a praying pastor, the importance of prayer for the sermon, and the critical need to prayer for those he shepherds.
John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living the Beatitudes.
Click on the book cover to order John’s book.
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What is good, Gospel preaching. We believe it must center on preaching both the law and the gospel. According to Eric Beach from 9 Marks,
Scripture contains both commands to obey (law) and promises to believe for salvation (gospel). These are not antithetical to each other. Instead, they play indispensable yet different roles in the lives of Christians. A “gospel-centered” hermeneutic which unintentionally downplays or sidelines the commands of God for Christians will often result in significant problems over the long-term. The solution is not to downplay the gospel with a soft moralism or sideline the law with a soft antinomianism. Rather, teachers should proclaim both the law and the gospel. Pastor, preach the gospel of Christ the glorious savior in every sermon. But also preach the whole counsel of the word of God. Give your sheep God’s instructions and his commands for holy living. (See link here)
Pastor Dan Samms and I discuss the importance of preaching LAW AND GOSPEL and how to frame the sermon so it does here in this podcast. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC, and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies. Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings.
Dan wrote a book, Follow: A Handbook for Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. It’s a handy tool for guiding people through initial steps in following Jesus. You can purchase it on Amazon.com, and it is inexpensive enough that you can easily buy a copy for a friend and read it together.
Dan’s primary role at Restoration is equipping the saints to make disciples.
Email: dan@restorationamherst.org
Instagram: @roaringshepherd
Website: www.undergroundseminary.net
The post Podcast 150: Preaching Law and Gospel (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I interviewed Pastor Matt Cohen on the discipline of expository preaching. Below is a summary of what expository preaching is from Qot Questions. See the link here.
Expository preaching involves the exposition, or comprehensive explanation, of the Scripture; that is, expository preaching presents the meaning and intent of a biblical text, providing commentary and examples to make the passage clear and understandable. The word exposition is related to the word expose—the expository preacher’s goal is simply to expose the meaning of the Bible, verse by verse.
To prepare an expository sermon, the preacher starts with a passage of Scripture and then studies the grammar, the context, and the historical setting of that passage in order to understand the author’s intent. In other words, the expositor is also an exegete—one who analyzes the text carefully and objectively. (See our article “What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?”) Once the preacher understands the meaning of the passage, he then crafts a sermon to explain and apply it. The result is expository preaching.
G. Campbell Morgan, pastor of London’s Westminster Chapel and known as “the prince of expositors,” taught that a sermon is limited by the text it is covering. Every word from the pulpit should amplify, elaborate on, or illustrate the text at hand, with a view towards clarity. He wrote, “The sermon is the text repeated more fully.” A sermon’s primary function is to present the text.
Matt Cohen is the lead pastor of Citylight Church in Philadelphia, PA, where he has served since planting the church in 2011-2012. Matt is also the Dean of the Center for Christ-centered Preaching and professor of preaching at Grimke Seminary. Matt has been married to Andrea since 2007 and they have two children, Soren and Sage.
To hear a recent sermon from Pastor Matt, go here.
To hear Matt share about how to become a preacher, listen to this interview here.
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Increasingly, parents are carrying a burden for prodigal adult children. Some months ago, out of my own burden, I purchased and read Pastor James Banks’ book called Prayer for Prodigals. I used the book as part of my devotional time and found great courage and comfort from the way James uses scripture to shape his prayers for his own two children. In this podcast, we discuss not only his book but also the humble journey of living and trusting a sovereign God to answer the deep cries of the heart for our burden for adult children who are not following Jesus.
Dr. James Banks’ bestselling writing on prayer and faith, translated into multiple languages, has encouraged and inspired millions around the world. James is a devotional writer for Our Daily Bread and has been a pastor and church planter for 30 years. James is also a popular speaker at churches, conferences and retreats (to learn more visit his website). He is a graduate of Westmont College and holds advanced degrees from Princeton and Gordon Conwell Theological Seminaries. He and wife Cari have been married 35 years and make their home in Durham, NC. They have two adult children and one grandchild. For more information visit JamesBanks.org, PrayersForProdigals.org and James’ Facebook Author Page.
Order Pastor Jame’s books below by clicking on the image:
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We don’t often consider the impact of the pastor’s burnout on the pastor’s wife! I sit down with Tom and Karen Friedrichs to discuss their own journey with burnout, recovery, and how God used it to prepare them to help others in ministry. Often the wife is affected differently than her husband from his burnout. If not addressed, she can withdraw from others and even from her husband. We also discuss how the church could be safer place for pastors if the leadership were protecting him better particuarly from antagonists in the church.
Tom and Karen have faithfully served together in ministry for over 30 years. Throughout their journey, Tom has pastored three churches and led a parachurch ministry, while Karen has supported him as a pastor’s wife and embraced numerous ministry roles, all while working as a registered nurse. Together, they have navigated the highs and lows of ministry life — and have a deep and personal understanding of the difficulties ministry leaders face, and the weight pastors and Christian leaders carry.
When faced with Tom’s own time of burnout, his sabbatical experience brought about the soul rest that he needed, developing new healthy rhythms for a fruitful next season. Because of this journey, they are passionate about walking alongside Christian leaders to foster health, sustainability, and effectiveness for the long haul.
Tom is a certified counselor and an ICF-certified life and leadership coach, with special training in “Life Younique” to help others discover their true calling and purpose. He also offers Sabbatical Coaching to help those in ministry plan for a meaningful sabbatical, stay on course during it, and have successful reentry to ministry. Karen’s heart for hospitality and support for pastor’s wives shines through in her work as both a retreat host and certified Christian life coach. Together, they are committed to creating an environment where you can rest, grow and thrive.
Check out their ministry Broom Tree Landing here.
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One Sunday after preaching, I found myself gravitating to a man I knew would compliment me for another great sermon. I found that I did this every Sunday. I bypassed others and went straight for my backslapping, always sermon-affirming, never-to-disappoint friend. The day I caught myself doing this was the day I realized this was unhealthy. So, I ignored that friend and stood in the lobby, eager to talk to anyone, even those who didn’t like my sermon and were honest about it.
Why are pastors like that? According to my interview with Dr. Andreas Kostenberger, it comes down to our self-image. The Bible does talk about it, but it has to be a discussion around how Jesus views us. We both agreed that God will sometimes make us insecure so that we, in time, find our security in him. Dr. Andreas Kostenberger writes this on his blog on this subject:
The role of pastors in fostering a healthy self-image is vital. People may think the concern for mental health and a proper self-image is a fairly recent phenomenon, but it is not. In the pages of the Bible, we see the apostle Paul display a consistent concern for the mental health of his associates and people in the churches. We see this most poignantly by the recurrence of the Greek word group, sōphro-, typically translated into English as “self-control,” though a more accurate translation would be “sound or healthy mind.” In his letters to Timothy and Titus, Paul urges that a sound mind be pursued by church leaders (1 Tim 3:2; 2 Tim 1:7; Titus 1:8), older and younger men (Titus 2:2, 6), older and younger women (Titus 2:5; cf. 1 Tim 2:9, 15), and by every believer (Titus 2:12).
Drs. Andreas and Marny Kostenberger have four adult children, have decades of experience equipping leaders for ministry, and are devoted servants of God in our local church. Andreas is a Bible teacher and prolific author with a heart for coaching men in the ministry. Marny enjoys hospitality and coaching ministry wives and other Christian women leaders. Together, Marny and Andreas have written books on marriage and family, and each has written on topics of their expertise. Andreas is well known for his love of Biblical Theology and the Gospel of John. Both of us are also certified Christian leadership coaches (CCLC). Whether you are a pastor planning a sabbatical, a missionary starting home assignment, or any Christian leader looking for refreshment, encouragement, and support, we look forward to hosting you soon at our quaint cottage home! Whether you are a pastor planning a sabbatical, a missionary starting home assignment, or any Christian leader looking for refreshment, encouragement, and support, we look forward to hosting you soon at our quaint cottage home!
Check out:
www.oaktreecottage.org
www.biblicalfoundations.org
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The Pastor taking a sabbatical has theological backing. God commanded the Old Testament doctrine of the Sabbath or rest to remember him as our creator and provider. Those who don’t rest tend to forget that. By resting, we join Him and his rest from creation, but it is also our way of preparing us for the final rest that awaits us.
“Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.” (Hebrews 4:1)
The church and the pastor need to understand the importance of the pastor’s sabbatical. It is more than taking a break from burnout and stress. Sabbaticals done intentionally will help reset the pastor’s calling, bring rest to his soul, and prepare him for longevity. In this podcast, Pastor Dan Stegeman and I discuss the biblical basis for a sabbatical, how to plan it, and how to benefit from it.
Here are some helpful resources.
Why Sabbaticals are Good for Your Church by Sean Nemecek
The Sabbatical Planning Tool Kit by Sean Nemecek
6 Reasons Pastors Should Consider a Sabbatical By Pastor Dan Stegeman
Sabbatical Planning by Mitch A. Schultz
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Pastors struggle to develop meaningful friendships. Imagine struggling, striving, and working for the good of others. But then, when you have a need, there is no one with whom you can be honest and share your heart. Many pastors are going through this. Almost all go through it eventually. In this podcast, Pastor Ken Cluck and I discuss why friendships are difficult for pastors but why they are still critical to his personal health and effective ministry.
Pastor Ken has been in pastoral ministry since 1995. His ministry has included two Indian reservations (Northern Cheyenne and Nez Perce), refugee ministry, Korean churches, and urban and rural settings. Pastor Ken holds advanced degrees in ministry and theology, including two master’s degrees and a doctorate. In addition to pastoral ministry, Ken teaches graduate and undergrad classes through Crown College and is an evaluator for Alliance Leadership Development. In both roles, he trains future pastors. He also serves as a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee for the Christian & Missionary Alliance.Pastor Ken has been married to Yong since 1987. They have been together through thick and thin, through good times and bad. Neither is perfect, but both seek to exemplify a godly marriage and provide a loving family for their children and grandchildren.
For Pastor Ken’s blog titled: With Whom Does the Pastor Talk? Click here.
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Do you know what is worse than a salvation without assurance? It is an assurance without a salvation. According to Jesus that is what is going to be worse for many. This book has been written to give you the opportunity to assess your own story of salvation and the way Jesus has come to you, as well as your response to him. God saves each of us individually so each of our stories are uniquely different. At the same time, God’s work in saving us is consistent. He works in the same way so there is something consistent that will be going on in all of our lives.
In this podcast, I interview Pastor Joel Van Hoogen on his book Saving Evangelicals: When Many Say, Lord! Lord!
Order the book by clicking on the cover!
Rev. Joel Van Hoogen is the Executive Director of Church Partnership Evangelism (CPE), an international ministry devoted to equipping and engaging the members of Christ’s Body in personal evangelism, discipleship, and church planting. Ordained in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, he pastors a small fellowship in Boise Idaho. He and His wife have 5 children and 14 grandchildren.
Other related resources – Church Partnership Evangelisms website does not have any bio information, but it does have important connections to this ministry. www.traincpe.org
There is a website dedicated to this book, which is embedded on CPE’s website. www.testyourtestimony.com
The post Podcast 143: Saving Evangelicals – When Many Say, Lord! Lord! (Pastor Joel Van Hoogen) appeared first on Before You Quit.
When I heard the news of Steve Lawson’s sexual sin, I threw up my hands and said, “I give up! Is there anyone we can look up to anymore? Who is next?” If you need to find out who Steve Lawson is, he was right up there with giants like RC Sproul and John MacArthur. Lawson was a board member and teaching fellow of R. C. Sproul’s Ligonier Ministries. Lawson also served as the dean of the Doctor of Ministry program at The Master’s Seminary, founded by John MacArthur.
Dan and I discuss what happened, how it could happen, and, more importantly, what lessons we can learn from it. One of our takeaways is how much more we should look up to our small-town local pastor than to famous pastors who we don’t know well and do not know us.
We want to remind you that if you are looking for ways to direct your end-of-the-year giving, Fruitful Vine Ministry needs your help. You can go to our support page here and follow the directions.
For helpful resources on the Steve Lawson story, check out these resources.
https://truthscript.com/church/the-fall-of-a-leader-lessons-from-steve-lawsons-removal/
https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/announcements/2024/when-a-christian-leader-falls/?srsltid=AfmBOorfFqnoeZ6Iw-nElkQp00WrUGQXN_kqCdr8xU-Br-BfYczO4mnd
https://www.equip.org/articles/a-christians-response-to-pastor-lawsons-moral-failure/
https://pastoral-theology.com/2021/02/22/a-response-to-the-fall-of-ravi-zacharias/
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The nation of India has over 1.4 billion people. There are 2,289–2,554 groups that are considered unreached, meaning that less than 2% of the people in those groups follow Jesus. In this podcast, I interview Dan (last name withheld) to discuss his ministry of training pastors in India. Dan and the ministry he serves travel to India regularly and holds online training sessions for thousands of pastors across India. Many of these pastors have no biblical education. It’s a vital ministry. Dan and I also talk about how the church can see itself as missionally involved in the world without having to go. Training and equipping are becoming a large part of our missional commitment.
As part of my prayer discipline, I pray each morning for the persecuted church across the globe. India is one of those nations where the freedom to worship Jesus is severely limited. According to Voices of the Martyr, “Christians in India are facing increased opposition from Hindu nationalists who seek to eradicate their witness for Christ and establish a “pure” Hindu nation. Despite beatings, arrests and even the murder of loved ones, persecuted Christians in India continue to faithfully advance God’s Kingdom.” Despite the persecution, the church is rapidly growing in India thanks to pastors like Dan and his ministry.
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Many of us get stuck when we see contradictions in the Bible. Pastor John Fogal argues that exceptions in the Bible are never contradictions. This podcast interview will open a window to worship an amazing God who made the greatest exception ever when he extended to us redemption. John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living The Beatitudes.
EXCEPTIONS and CONTRADICTIONS
The God who is revealed in Scripture is so great that He can make exceptions but never so small that He is guilty of contradictions. He can make exceptions without contradicting the foundational truths. We need spiritual discernment to know the difference. We need faith to see that God is always all His Word claims Him to be. And we need strong discipline to never turn one of God’s exceptions into an official human policy that ultimately contradicts and invalidates God’s foundational rule. He is God. We are not. The more I see of God’s exceptions the more I see the greatness of His sovereign authority and the grandeur of His radiant glory.
God made it clear from the start that when a human being sins, he/she will die. Read the genealogies in Genesis 5 and you will see the number of years that each man lived, “and he died.” Except for verse 24 which reads, “And Enoch walked with God; and was not, for God took him.” Before the 10 commandments were given to Moses everyone (including Cain) instinctively knew that it was wrong to kill another human being. Yet God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on the alter. When Abraham passed the test, God provided a ram, so Isaac did not die prematurely. (However, when it came time for God the Father to sacrifice His only begotten Son, “He spared not His own Son but freely gave Him up for us all.”) God told Hosea to marry a harlot (an exception) to teach him and Israel and us about His love for all of us who are “harlots” in His sight.
True miracles are, by definition, exceptions that do not conform to the general rule. They transcend the general laws of nature and accomplish exceptional and unusual and rare events. The iron ax head floated on the water. The sun stood still. The bush burned but was not consumed. The Red Sea parted. Jonah was swallowed by a great fish. The three Hebrew children miraculously came out of the fiery furnace. God shut the lions’ mouths. Extraordinary miracles happened throughout the Old and New Testaments. The Virgin birth of Jesus was a miracle. So was His resurrection. None of these exceptions negated the overriding, foundational laws of God. We must remember that God’s ways and thoughts are higher and better than ours and are beyond our finding out (Isaiah 55:8-9).
From our human perspective, the best of God’s “exceptions” is our great salvation. Every human being is “already condemned” and deserves the wrath of God. In His loving sovereign will He chooses us. The Bible calls it “election.” He draws us to His Son; brings us to a place of godly sorrow that leads to repentance; declares us to be justified in His sight; forgives and cleanses us when we confess our sins; makes us new creatures in Christ; calls us to be His children; and Christ is coming soon to take us to be with Him! That makes the “few” exceptional! PRAISE THE LORD! Universalists want to make this exception into a rule and conclude that, in the end, everyone will be saved and go to heaven. That is not what the Bible teaches. “But when He saved my soul, cleansed and made me whole, it took a miracle of love and grace.”
THREE APPLICATIONS
God’s Word makes it clear that He instituted marriage and unites a man and a woman in “one flesh” and that union is to last “until death us do part.” When the Pharisees asked Jesus about divorce He said, “a man shall leave father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:4-8) He then gave clear teaching for the restrictions on the exception called divorce. Add to the large number of marriages that end in divorce all the people who co-habit without being married and it almost seems like the exception has become the rule and the rule has become the exception..
What we call a “miscarriage” is one of God’s exceptions. There may even be times when a husband and wife and doctor need to prayerfully decide (with godly, biblical counsel) to end the pregnancy as the only way to save the mother’s life. But that is not the motivation for more than 99% of the millions of abortions. When the sperm and egg are fertilized, a new life, with its own special, individual, unique DNA is formed, and God knits that new body together in the mother’s womb (Psalm 139:13-16 NLT) until the baby is born and the umbilical cord is cut. We are “fearfully and wonderfully made” “in the image of God.” God gives the mother the supreme privilege of providing life for that new life throughout the gestation period, but that new life is distinct from the mother’s body. Abortion is clearly the terminating of the work of God. Shouldn’t we think twice before committing such a crime?
God made us “male and female.” He made us equal but different because He has designed different functions for us to fill. When it comes to the leadership roles in the home and church, it seems to me that God gave us a foundational principle in 1 Corinthians 11:2, “I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” There are further details found in verses such as Ephesian 5:22-33, 1 Timothy 2:9-15, and I Corinthians 14:33-35. We need to think foundationally, based on God’s Word, not man’s word. So what about the story of Deborah as a judge in the book of Judges (and all the other places where you may think there are exceptions to the rule.) Remember, they are exceptions, not the rule. Think about all the rest of the judges, and priests, and kings, and prophets, and apostles, and elders, and pastors, and bishops. I believe there can still be exceptions today. But we must know that it is God’s exception and not a man-made human policy. We cannot blur these gender distinctive in leadership without “unintended consequences” such as ultimately negating God’s foundational law, causing confusion, and displeasing and offending the God who created us male and female. He is God. We are not.
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In the five previous podcasts we reviewed Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry and teachings. It is appropriate that we follow those up with a discussion of spiritual abuse in the church. I had the honor of interviewing Dawn Hill for this podcast on this subject.
Dawn Hill is a Christian blogger known as The Lovesick Scribe, and the host of The Lovesick Scribe Podcast. She is passionate about sharing the truth and pointing others back to Jesus Christ through the written Word as the standard of authority for Christian living and instruction while being led by the Holy Spirit into maturity. She is the author of NonProphet Woke: The Reformation of a Modern-Day Disciple. She writes articles for Christianity.com, Servants of Grace, and her blog posts have been shared by individuals such as Tim Challies. She will be featured in the upcoming docuseries, American Gospel: Spirit and Fire. She co-leads a women’s support group with Emily Massey called Snatched from the Flames, where they minister to women who have come out of the hypercharismatic and New Apostolic Reformation movement. She is a wife to Nicholas and a mother to Anabel and Ephraim. You can follow her on The Lovesick Scribe and Instagram.
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In this final podcast reviewing Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry, Rev. Mark Barnard of Blessing Point Ministry joins the conversation with Dan Stegeman and me. We discuss Dr. Reimer’s teachings that Christians can be indwelt by demons and we offer a biblical response.
To listen to the first podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the second podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the third podcast on Soul Care, click here.
For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.
For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Jonathan and Brooke Gangi’s testimony of attending a Soul Care conference click here.
The post Podcast 138: Christians and Demons (Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry) appeared first on Before You Quit.
For the past few weeks, we have been doing an in depth critique of Rob Reimer’s Soul Care ministry. We have attempted to show why this ministry is unbiblical and even dangerous. In this podcast, we want to continue our review with a first hand account of an individual who attended a Soul Care Conference and had a traumatic experience. In this powerful testimony, Dan interviews Brooke and Jonathan Gangi.
Jonathan and Brooke Gangi have been married for 17 years and are proud parents of four girls. Jonathan is a professor at Penn State University and Brooke is a homemaker and homeschooling mom. They are members of Oakwood Presbyterian Church (PCA) in State College, PA
To listen to the first podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the second podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the third podcast on Soul Care, click here.
For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.
For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here.
The post Podcast 137: Attending a Soul Care Conference (The story of Brooke and Jonathan Gangi) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Dan and I continued our conversation reviewing Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry, today discussing his chapter on Inner Wounds. How does healing really happen? You’re deeply affected by childhood trauma, or abused as a child. This has left you struggling through life, often unable to trust others. Relationships are hard, and marriages affected.You find yourself anxious and lacking confidence. Where do you turn? Do you take a journey, by the guidance of an experienced healer, into your inner self, or does the Holy Spirit take you back to the finished work at the cross of Jesus? What difference does sound theology have on our understanding of faith, and how to overcome, or just endure, the hard stuff we face in life? Let’s find out!
We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at mitch@beforeyouquit.us, or comment in the comment section below this page.
To listen to the first podcast, click here.
For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.
For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here.
The post Podcast 136: Dr. Rob Reimer, Soul Care Part 3 (Healing Wounds) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Most of us are unfamiliar with the Church of Christ. There is one in our town, and from all appearance it looks like any other ordinary church. When you dig into their believes however, there are serious concerns. For a thorough review of the Church of Christ, read this article from Got Questions here. My interest in this podcast is not at all to attack the church of Christ, but to hear Pastor Gary Phillips story of pastoring a Church of Christ church and what caused him to leave.
Toccoa Christian Church minister, Gary Phillips, has been involved in Biblical ministry for over 18 years. Gary, along with wife Sandi, has served the Lord in many capacities. Married for 19 years, Gary and Sandi are loved by and cherish 5 adult children and 12 grandchildren. A well-rounded individual and lover of learning, Gary Phillips is not only well-read and educated in Biblical Scripture, but in professional studies as well. Earning 3 degrees, Gary has obtained much knowledge and real-life experience to not only teach, but to lead his congregation in a real and relevant way. (Gary has earned a Bachelor of Science degree in both Mechanical Engineering and Theology. He has also earned a Master of Divinity Degree in Counseling). Once an atheist, Gary became a follower of Christ with a strong desire to learn Scripture. Gary studied apologetics at Theology School, diligently studying the existence of God and the inspiration of Scripture. In addition to preaching over 3,000 sermons, Gary has also taught (as well as written curriculum for) many marriage classes, divorce groups, groups of parents of children, and others developed with the help of his Counseling degree. Gary explains his teaching philosophy: “90% of the sermons I preach are expository; directly from the inspired text. My illustrations, applications, videos are applicable and are up to date. I believe that if they are not, the Word of God will not be understood as relevant to our youth, our families, and it certainly will not seem relevant to our community.”
The post Podcast 135: Leaving the Church of Christ (Pastor Gary Phillips) appeared first on Before You Quit.
My cohost, Dan Stegeman and I continue our review of Soul Care Ministry by Dr. Rob Reimer. This podcast comes out of the desire to be discerning. We are instructed in scripture to test everything being taught and compare it to scripture. The apostle John writes, “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).
Soul Care is a ministry led by Dr. Rob Reimer which is hugely popular. We have deep concerns over the theology and practice of Soul Care and desire to review it with an open Bible. We are also concerned by the number of people who have been negatively impacted by Soul Care. We do this podcast because we care about the church and believe strongly in the authority of the scriptures to govern life and ministry. We are not attacking an individual, but questioning this individual’s teachings about what experiencing freedom and healing really looks like.
We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at mitch@beforeyouquit.us, or comment in the comment section below this page.
To listen to the first podcast, click here.
For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.
For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here.
The post Podcast 134: A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Teaching (Part Two) appeared first on Before You Quit.
This podcast comes out of the desire to be discerning. We are instructed in scripture to test everything being taught and compare it to scripture. The apostle John writes, “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Soul Care is a ministry led by Dr. Rob Reimer which is hugely popular. We have deep concerns over the theology and practice of Soul Care and desire to review it with an open Bible. We are also concerned by the number of people who have been negatively impacted by Soul Care. We do this podcast because we care about the church and believe strongly in the authority of the scriptures to govern life and ministry. We are not attacking an individual, but questioning this individual’s teachings about what experiencing freedom and healing really looks like.
We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at mitch@beforeyouquit.us, or comment in the comment section below this page.
The post Podcast 133: A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry appeared first on Before You Quit.
More than ever, as society around us devalues marriage, the church needs to respond with biblical conviction. While most statistics indicate that divorce is nearly as high among professing Christians from the secular world, we are also discovering that Christians who attend church regularly have a far better chance of surviving the enemies attempts at destroying the family. Professing believers who do not attend church have a 60% change of divorcing, and that number drops to 30% for those who do regularly attend church. The church is an important place, not only to promote godly marriage, but also respond with biblical obedience to divorce and remarriage. We encourage the pastor and church leaders to have a clear biblical policy in place that will help to strengthen the family unit. I had the privilege to interview Pastor Dan Samms on this subject.
Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He plants house churches and trains shepherds with Restoration House Church Network. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh.
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I grew up to missionary parents in Papua, Indonesia, formerly, Iran Jaya. My parents served there for thirty-eight years, most of those years with a primitive tribe in the Paniai Lakes region. After World War Two, hundreds of missionaries moved to Papua and a large community of churches was planted. My parents’ main role was to train and equip pastors. Papua is a complicated place to understand. Politics, under the control of Indonesia, animism, corruption and power all came together to create conflict within the Alliance Church in Papua. Today, there is a spit group, one tied strongly to the ambition and fight for independence, and the other maintain strong roots to orthodoxy.
Barry Jordan and I start our conversation by telling the story of my parents’ visit some ten years ago to the tribal area where they started their ministry, and where my sibling and I were born. My parents had been invited to speak at an area church conference. Awaiting the airplane was a large crowd. At first, it was assumed the crowd was there to greet them, but as they airplanes engine shut off, the mob began attacking the plane. Barry was one of the passengers, and he explains how for twenty minutes, they prayed and waited, and eventually the local police were able to disperse the crowd, and the airplane was able to take off. It broke my parents’ heart, especially seeing in the crowd some of the students they had taught, now there to either kill or kidnap them.
In this podcast Barry and I talk about the dynamics that led to this tragic church conflict.
Barry Jordan is married to Patty for forty-years, and together they have served in Papua for thirty-five years. They have three children, two grandchildren and two on the way.
The post Episode 131: Church Crisis in Papua (Barry Jordan) appeared first on Before You Quit.
How does the church remain strong on its convictions, but convey love? How do parents respond when their adult children come out as homosexual? Do you attend a gay wedding? What do you do when your son or daughter wants to bring their partner home? Jim Domen addresses these questions, but also tells his story about coming to Christ and leaving the gay lifestyle. He now offers encouragement and support to parents who are wrestling with the same questions his parents did when he was far from the Lord.
Check out Jim Domen’s website here.
Here is what Jim shares about himself:
I never imagined that I would enter the homosexual lifestyle after being raised in a God-fearing home and accepting Christ at age seven. After I graduated from George Fox University, I was so desperate to love and be loved that I didn’t care that my partner was HIV positive. God changed my life forever on June 8, 2002, when I lost all my worldly possessions and distinctly heard God’s voice telling me to come back to Him. I told God, “I’m yours again,” and I began to realize that His strength is made perfect in my weakness – even in someone as broken as me.
God began to restore me and I enrolled in seminary at Azusa Pacific University. I learned how to be obedient to God’s voice and how to interpret the Bible. God continued His work of redemption and gave me opportunities to share my story publicly.
After I graduated from seminary, I became a pastor at Rose Drive Friends Church. I realized that I could no longer ignore the troublesome news stories about public policy and it discouraged me to hear Christians who did not understand how to articulate their worldview. Around this time, Proposition 8 was being fought in the culture and I found myself on the front lines promoting God’s plan for marriage: the union between a man and woman. At press conferences and rallies, I met the founder of Focus on the Family’s California Family Council, who became my boss and mentor after I was asked to join California Family Council. After six years at CFC, God strategically called me to begin Church United in 2016. Church United’s vision is to transform California for Christ by 1) Disrupting Pastors, 2) Uniting the Church, and 3) Transforming our Communities.
Six years after leaving the gay lifestyle and one month before the successful passage of Proposition 8, God continued His work of restoration when I met my wife, Amanda. She is “God’s gift from Heaven.” We were married in 2009 and five years latter God blessed us with our daughter, Aliah, whose name in Hebrew means “ascending to God” – just like our praises to Him for giving us the gift of becoming parents. Two years later, Amanda gave birth to our son, Ryker, whose name means “strong leader,” and in 2018, we had our third child, Asher. Her name means “Happy and blessed.”
Click on book cover to order Jim Domen’s book
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We continue our series on the twenty-plus-year pastor. What keeps a pastor serving even when the road gets rough? How does one stay resilient during seasons of little growth, opposition and even disappointments and loss? Have you ever considered that pastoring can be mundane? How do you keep yourself passionate about preaching and shepherding? What a privilege to sit down with Pastor Kevin Hurt on his experience of pastoring in one church for 32 years.
Kevin was the founding pastor of Grace Bible Church in Mountain City, GA where he served as the senior pastor for 32 years prior to the successful transition to the new senior pastor. Following the transition he was privileged to remain at Grace Bible Church where he served for 3 years as the Associate Pastor under the new senior Pastor.
He has served in various counseling organizations, chairs various boards, and continues to lecture, teach and train other pastors and counselors in Biblical Counseling in the US as well as in Uganda & Ireland.
He currently is serving as the pastor of discipleship at Ebenezer Baptist Church.
The post Podcast Ep.129: The 20+ Year Pastor (Pastor Kevin Hurt) appeared first on Before You Quit.
We continue our series on the twenty-plus-year pastor. What keeps a pastor serving even when the road gets rough? How does one stay resilient during seasons of little growth, opposition and even disappointments and loss? Have you ever considered that pastoring can be mundane? How do you keep yourself passionate about preaching and shepherding? What a joy it was to interview pastor Milan Dekich who served for forty years in one church at Fairview Church of God in Falkville, AL.
Born in 1954, Milan Brown Dekich grew up in Ringgold, Ga on chicken and cattle farm,. His education is as follows: Ooltewah High School – 1972, University of Georgia – BSEd – 1977, Anderson College School of Theology – 1980, Asbury Seminary – Doctor of Ministry 1992, Pastor of Fairview Church of God, Falkville, AL 1980- 2020, Regional Pastor of the Church of God in Alabama – 2020 – present.. Wife- Barbara Jo (Blevins) Dekich, Children- Daughter – Christal (Dekich) Ellett, Son – Milan Michael Dekich, Son-in-law – Hayes Ellett.
His Hobbies – Fishing, raising Golden Retrievers, hunting artifacts.
The post Podcast Ep.128: The 20+ Year Pastor (Pastor Milan Dekich) appeared first on Before You Quit.
We continue our series on the twenty-plus-year pastor. What keeps a pastor serving even when the road gets rough? How does one stay resilient during seasons of little growth, opposition and even disappointments and loss? Have you ever considered that pastoring can be mundane? How do you keep yourself passionate about preaching and shepherding? What a joy it was to interview pastor Chuck Wall, who has served in one church for …drum roll…. 34 years.
By the mercy of God – Chuck grew up in a godly home and has been a part of the C&MA all his life. He received a B.S. from Columbia Bible College (now Columbia International University) with some additional classes after graduation. Began ministry in Lexington, SC for 8 years and has been serving in Statesville, NC for 34+ years. He has been happily married to Denise for 45 years. They are the grateful and joyful parents of 5 children (and their spouses) and 11 grandchildren ( & 1 more next month). He loves to teach and unpack the truths of God’s Word because it is through God’s Word that we are instructed in how to know and walk with the Lord in every aspect of our lives. Therefore, the study, understanding and applying of the Bible is paramount in the Christian’s and the Church’s life. One of his favorite verses is 2 Corinthians 3:5 – “Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy come from God.”
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Someone suggested to me recently that I interview pastors who have served in one church for twenty or more years. Great idea, I chimed. It’s actually a great subject. Most pastors don’t last five years in a church, some might stretch it to seven, or ten, but twenty? That just doesn’t happen often. There must be some reasons for longevity in ministry. Like a good investigator, I put on my Columbo hat and began knocking on doors, asking some probing questions. There are seven pastors I will be interviewing in these podcasts, from different regions and various denominations. I ask them all the same question and know the answers will vary dramatically.
- The first Pastor I interview is Pastor Mike Franklin. Here’s some really cool information about him;Pastor Mike earnedaB.S. from Lee University, M.Ed. from the University of South Alabama, M. Div. from the Church of God School of Theology, and DMin from the Pentecostal School of Theology. After more than 40 years of pastoral ministry, he is serving in his 23rd year as Senior Pastor of The Torch in Demorest, Georgia which serves through two campuses.
Pastor Mike’s ministry role also includes teaching leadership seminars, mentoring pastors, serving on several boards and committees, and leading short-term mission enterprises, and most recently appointed to the church of God State Leadership Team for Ministerial Enrichment.
Among his greatest blessings in life are Connie, his wife of 41 years; three children, David, Daniel and Renée; two daughters-in-law, Abbie and Chelsea; one son-in-law, Madison; and seven grandchildren, Bailey, Asher, Maddie Rae, Arden, and James, Adeline, and one on the way.
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In this podcast I interview author Mark Barnard on his book, The Corporate Church; Why We Need to Get Our House in Order. We live in a very individualistic time, where we fail to see God’s relationship to us as a corporate body. Many churches are hurting because they don’t understand what is causing their pain.
The Corporate Church explores God’s relationship with Israel and how it shapes His relationship with the Body of Christ. On the surface, that objective seems mundane. Yet rediscovering how God views His people corporately radically changes how we view our church, denomination, or Christian organization. Seeing God’s people from God’s perspective completely shifts popular notions of church health and revival. It recalibrates the balance between our individualistic culture and the Church’s collective identity. A corporate perspective fosters a fundamental transformation in the way we think about and “do” church.
Mark founded Blessing Point Ministries which works to enhance the fruitfulness of healthier ministries and heal wounded congregations. He authored several books related to church health. His latest title, Screwtape versus The Church, explores the nature of corporate spiritual warfare. Mark is a father, grand father and husband of over 30 years. You can learn more @blessingpoint.org.
To order book, click on book cover
Check out the churchScan Inventory here
Check out the article Mark wrote about the Rusty Steeple
Order Mark’s book by clicking on the book cover
The post Podcast Ep.125: The Corporate Church (Mark Barnard) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Pastor’s often meet together and talk shop. It takes a certain level of trust, though, for us to talk about matters of the heart than issues of the Church. I wrote this booklet, Building A Community of Trust: Eleven Things Pastors Struggle With, but Rarely Talk About with the aim of helping ministry leaders get to the heart of their struggles.
Order the booklet here!
Here are the eleven things in chart form that pastors struggle with but rarely talk about;
| The Struggle | The Symptom | The Possible Outcomes | | Insecurity | I am one moment from losing it all | – Inner dread of being found – Pressure to perform based on expectation of others- Pleasing others becomes more important that pleasing Jesus | | Expectations | The pressure to meet the standards of others. | – Serving with wrong motives- Disappointment and discouragement- Conflict with others who have differing expectations | | Apathy | lack of interest, enthusiasm, or loss of passion | – Loss of passion and motivation- No one follows; lends to apathy in others- Diminishing life and ministry in the church | | Identity | Afraid that people will find out what I am really like | – It is “not well” with my soul- Based on performance – “I am as good as my last sermon”What others think of me is more important than what Jesus thinks of me.Keep the pastor from being open and vulnerable. | | Loneliness | Living with few or no true friends | Pastor has no real friendsPeople’s expectation of the pastor is professional not personalCan lead to poor choices; the pastor is his own counselLeads to pastors talking shop, more than talking soul | | Pride | A sense that I am indispensable to the church. | – Rarely away from the pulpit- Has to make all the decisions himself- False humility- Can lead to sinful choices | | Anger | Feeling of bitterness or resentment toward others; wanting others to hurt. | – Act irrationally without thinking of cost- Critical and sarcastic- Use position and pulpit to address issues- Often is seen by others but not by the pastor himself | | Failure | Ministry is not going well, not going my way. It’s just not working. | – Discouragement and defeat- Second guess the call- Is often how God works best | | Doubt | I’m not sure I am called to this; I am not sure I believe in what I do. | – Lack of confidence- Lack of preparation – Comparing to those more successful – Can lead to humility and reclaiming of call | | Restlessness | I am bored, not happy here, want to be somewhere else or doing something else | – Boredom – Loss of passion- Desire for something new- Can anchor to eternal promises | | Sexual Purity | I am distracted by so many things that I know are not healthy for me. | – Susceptible to sexual temptation – Addicted or prone to view pornography.- Focus on God’s holiness can lead to freedom |
The post Podcast Ep.124: Eleven Things Pastors Struggle With but Rarely Talk About, and How to Change That. (Mitch & Dan) appeared first on Before You Quit.
When you think of race and the church you likely think of the turmoil in our nation in 2020. It woke the church up, and we found ourselves asking if we are doing a good enough job understanding race, and appreciating the stories of those who hold different ethnicities than we do. How does the gospel address race? What does the Bible really say about who we are, in our distinctions, but also in our unity under family, that of Jesus Christ. To unpack all this, I had the privilege of interviewing Pastor Tom Sugimura about his book, Grace, Race and the Church, a wonderful testimony of how the church unites all people under the covering protection of the gospel.
Grace, Race and the Church will introduce the reader to the important conversations in today’s social landscape. We hope these stories open people’s eyes to the racial tensions we all face in a fallen world, but also to a healthier way of starting our experiences with others. (From back cover of book)
Pastor Tom Sugimura serves as a pastor , church planting mentor, and professor biblical counseling. He writes at tomsugi.com and ministers the gospel at New Life Church. He and wife, Amanda, are raising their four children in the wilds of Southern California.
To order Tom’s book, click here
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It was AW Tozer who wrote that “what we think about God, is the most important thing about us.” Paul in 1 Timothy 4:16 tells Timothy to, “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” What we believe, matters. What we believe about doctrine and theology determines how we live. I had the joy of sitting down with Pastor John W. Fogal to talk about this from his new booklet, Work Out Your Salvation, Because it is God Working in You. We often think of doctrine as mere ascent, stuff we adhere to, teach about and preach on. But, have you considered how without doctrine, we would not know how to live? Thankfully, we have been given by Jesus direction on how to live this life for him and his glory. He is the one working his life in and through us. What an exciting thing, or as John says, IT’S A BIG DEAL! And it is. I know by listening to this podcast you will be motivated to cling to Jesus, by understanding better this great salvation he has given us and the implication to our very lives.
John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living The Beatitudes.
To order his book, WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION click here.
To order his book, LIVING THE BEATITUDES, click here.
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Pastoring is one of the hardest jobs around. Just ask any of us. The expectations and pressures can at times become nearly unbearable. Having said that, putting the two words, PASTORING and PTSD (okay, that’s an abbreviation, not a word, but I regress) is a surprising combination of realities. But it’s all two real; many pastors do experience something short of PTSD. My interview with Sean Nemecek opened my eyes to the deep, sometimes unbearable pressures pastors face. He also helped me understand how it can be avoided, and how it can be treated. If you are a pastor, and you’ve experienced burnout, this podcast will give you fresh perspective and offer you hope. If. you are not a pastor, but love your pastor and love your church, this podcast will provide you with the resources on how best to encourage your pastor. The role the church has in providing a supporting context for the pastor is great. We hope you will take advantage of this conversation, and look at how your church can be a healthy community not just for you and others, but also for your pastor.
Here is what Sean says about himself and his work: I work to bring new hope and health to hurting pastors and their families. During my 18 years as a pastor, I went through serious ministry burnout. To recover I needed help but didn’t know where to turn. So, I built a team of people to help me— a friend, a mentor, a coach, a spiritual director, and a counselor. This approach was expensive and time-consuming, but it worked.
Now, I provide the support to other pastors that wasn’t readily available to me. Since joining PIR Ministries in January of 2020, I’ve helped many pastors and their spouses navigate burnout, forced exit, or other ministry stress. My first goal is to be a friend — someone provides a safe space for pastors to be themselves without asking anything from them. If these pastors choose, I also offer clergy coaching, ministry assessments, or mentoring.
My book, The Weary Leader’s Guide to Burnout, comes out of my own experience and coaching other pastors through burnout. It takes Christian leaders on a journey from burnout through recovery and on to spiritual transformation.
By understanding the causes and symptoms of their burnout these leaders will be ready to take practical, actionable steps toward recovery. Then, if they choose, they will be poised to do the inner work of spiritual transformation by the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit. In the end, these leaders will emerge from burnout more confident in Christ, more connected with others, and with greater purpose, courage, and grace in their leadership.
PIR Ministries is faith-based, nonprofit, para-clergy ministry. We each raise our own financial support so that we can help pastors at minimal cost to them. It’s always a challenge to raise enough support to keep going. If you would like to learn more this ministry, please visit the PIR Ministries website, contact me, or you can make a special or recurring donation here.
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BYQ has tackled the subject of the Alliance decision to ordain women on several podcasts. While a number of Alliance churches have left over the decision, some desire to remain and by remaining, seek to influence change. In this BYQ podcast, Pastor Jeremy Muncy and I discuss the formation of 1:9 Alliance and its purpose. 1:9 Alliance comes out of Titus 1:9. “He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” I love how 1:9 Alliance seeks to go beyond just the topic of complementarianism versus egalitarianism, but to also “help God’s people value, interpret, proclaim, and apply the Word of God in fulfillment of the Great Commission.”
There are eight core commitments in 1:9 Alliance. 1. Scripture 2. Hermeneutics 3. Expository preaching 4 Christ-centeredness 5. Holy Spirit dependance 6. The Great Commission 7. Complimentary design 8. Church leadership. You can find the breakdown of these core commitments and tap resources as well as join as an affiliate on the 1:9 Alliance website here.
For resources and podcasts go here.
About Jeremy: Jeremy Muncy loves Jesus, his wife, his children, and his church. He pastors at Westwood Alliance Church in Mansfield, OH where he has served for the past eleven years.
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My cohost Dan Stegeman and I sit down together to discuss the history, the purpose and the impact of the first ten years of Fruitful Vine Ministry. Did you know the name comes from Genesis 49:22-24( NIV)? Joseph is a fruitful vine, a fruitful vine near a spring, whose branches climb over a wall. With bitterness archers attacked him; they shot at him with hostility. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel. That is what we want to see for pastors and ministry leaders. We know many find themselves in the throws of a battle. With bitterness, archers even within their own ranks attack with hostility. We believe even in such realities, the pastor, the international worker, the ministry leader can remain steady, strong arms limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel.
We rarely ask for donations on these podcasts, and probably won’t for a while. But if you are interested in supporting FVM, please go to our support page here.
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I’ve interviewed Ken Sande twice before on his ministry of Peacemaking. Here, in this podcast, Ken shares the most wonderful story of how Jesus proved himself to be the great Peacemaker, when Ken’s own father, a judge, embrace the gospel, (or was embraced by the gospel) moments before he died. Ken and I talk about his life, his home and how all this was used by Jesus to make the gospel irresistible to his father. We also discuss the encouragement this provides for those of us who live with the burden of a lost loved one.
Ken Sande is the founder of Peacemaker Ministries and president of a new ministry, Relational Wisdom 360. Trained as a mechanical engineer and lawyer, Ken is passionate about bringing the life-changing power of the gospel into the lives of Christians and their churches. He has used biblical peacemaking principles to minister to parties in hundreds of conflicts, ranging from simple personal disputes to complex legal conflicts.
He is the author of “The Peacemaker”, which has been translated into 15 languages, and has written numerous books, articles, and training resources on biblical conflict resolution and relational wisdom. He is a certified Christian conciliator, an editorial advisor for Christianity Today International’s church management team, and a certified emotional intelligence instructor. He and his wife, Corlette, are delighted to be grandparents and love to hike with their family in the mountains near their home in Montana.
For Ken’s testimony about his father, click here.
To order a copy of the Transformed pamphlet click here.
To check out more resources about Ken’s ministry of Peacemaking and Relationship Wisdom, go here.
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“Youth and children’s ministries have become professionalized to the point where parents feel ill-equipped to disciple their children. Our culture has become so fast-paced and loud that children and youth are finding it difficult to find their own voice. My book, VOICES, helps parents and those working with children and youth take a look at the various voices speaking into and forming the developing worldview of our youth. Dr. Griffith encourages us to look at these various through the lenses of TIME, TRANSPARENCY and TRUST.” – (Dr. Rich Griffith)
In this podcast I sit down with Dr. Rich Griffith and two students, Jeremiah Cambell and Joshua Lang to discuss the subject of what voices this generation listens to, and to help them hear the right voices.
To order book click on book cover below
For more on my novels check my authors page here, or click on book below for my latest novel.
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We’ve covered a number of podcasts about how important it is for the pastor to preach well. Several podcasts back my cohost, Dan Stegeman and I, talked about how important solid, biblical Christ-centered preaching is to the life of the church. Today we discuss your role, the listener in the whole experience of preaching. What should we, the listener, do, before, during and following the Sunday sermon?
Consider this from the The Westminster Larger Catechism Q160: What is required of those that hear the word preached?
It is required of those that hear the word preached, that they attend upon it with diligence, preparation, and prayer examine: What they hear by the scriptures; receive the truth with faith, love, meekness, and readiness of mind, as the word of God; meditate, and confer of it; hide it in their hearts, and bring forth the fruit of it in their lives.
We hope, from this podcast, to elevate your responsibility to the pastor’s sermon as your way of helping deepen his commitment to bring each Sunday the deep experience of meeting the Living God through the exposition of the Word.
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This past summer, the Christian and Missionary Alliance council voted for the ordination of women to the pastorate. While the Alliance has held to a Complementarian stance throughout its history, this move allowed churches the freedom to ordain women and the freedom for other churches not to ordain women. In summary, the decision is up the local church. Women will not be permitted to serve as elders, nor as lead or solo pastors.
This did not come without controversy. There are those that find it challenging to continue to associate with the C&MA due to their biblical and theological convictions.
District leadership have taken different approaches to this issue. In most districts, to leave the Alliance has forced congregations to lose their buildings and finances. One district has allowed those churches who leave to keep their property and funds. Many in the Alliance who are burdened with the decision to ordain women, remain in the Alliance and have joined a network called 1:9 ALLIANCE, based on Titus 1:9, “He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.” The hope of this network is to influence from the inside. You can check out that network here and we do encourage you to join.
For the Alliance to arrive at this position, the leadership held a three year national conversation. We believe that conversation should continue. We do this podcast to encourage those pastors who don’t know what to do, or perhaps fear the risks of speaking out. We also want to encourage those who have left and encourage those who stay to love, pray for and support one another.
Here in this BYQ podcast, my co-host Dan Stegeman and I interview one such pastor who was deeply impacted by the decision to ordain women. His name is Paul Taylor, and if you happened to watch the open mic time at council, Paul is now famous as that guy with a baseball cap. He even wore that same hat during the interview. We appreciate so much Paul’s candor, honesty and the gentle way he addressed this issue. It was our prayerful desire to conduct the podcast in a gracious spirit, not to attack or oppose, but simply unpack this decision the Alliance has made.
About Paul Taylor: Paul has served 25 years as a pastor in Los Angeles California and Missoula Montana. He grew up on the corner of his grandfather’s orange orchard in central California. He and his wife, Kelly, have five children. Paul enjoys time with family and fly fishing in the mornings at sunrise among the beautiful rivers of Montana. Presently he serves as a pastor/elder of Redeemer Bible Church in Missoula MT. “My greatest desire in all of life, is that the gospel of Jesus is declared to all the world for the glory of God!”
OTHER RESOURCES:The World And Everything In It Podcast (from World Magazine) featured the Alliance decision in this daily update. Begin at min.13. Check it out here.
For Dan Stegeman’s paper on AB Simpson’s view on women pastors, (Is the C&MA Really More Simpsonian?) check here.
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The pressures on pastors, particularly for church planters, is not just in ministry, but also in the home. I had the wonderful privilege of interviewing pastor, Bryan Halferty and his wife, Kandice, for this BYQ podcast. Bryan and Kandice live with their family in Tacoma, Washington. Additionally Bryan regularly breaks his body skateboarding, works closely with church planters, and serves as the Lead Pastor of Anchor Church (C&MA). You can find him on both Instagram and Substack at @bryanhalferty. Kandice is a photographer and is completing studies in counseling and spiritual direction.
You can check out Bryan’s church here.
For the article in reference during this podcast, THE LION AND THE PIT go here.
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Is Church discipline an archaic, now irrelevant practice? I would sense most pastors would say no. It still matters today. In this podcast, with Pastor Hobie Wood, we talk about why church discipline matters, what the Bible says about it, when it should be carried out and why it’s so hard. What do you do when the person living in sin leaves the church before the process of discipline even begins? What about matters that take place outside the home, like marriage problems, domestic violence etc. What role should the church play? Can non-members be disciplined? How much do you communicate to the congregation? Pastor Hobie and I (two sinners longing for grace ourselves) dig deep into these issues and hope it will encourage you to seek for ways the gospel can restore broken relationships by bringing sinners to repentance.
Hobie is married to Hannah, and they have 3 children. He is a native of Tiger, Ga., a graduate of Clemson University (B.S.) and Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, NC (MDiv.). Prior to seminary and being called to be the pastor at Christ Presbyterian, Hobie and Hannah were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ (Cru) at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. He’s a rabid Clemson fan, a cyclist, and a (very) novice fly-fisherman.
“Church discipline is the process of correcting sinful behavior among members of a local church body for the purpose of protecting the church, restoring the sinner to a right walk with God, and renewing fellowship among the church members. In some cases, church discipline can proceed all the way to excommunication, which is the formal removal of an individual from church membership and the informal separation from that individual.” GOT QUESTIONS
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Al Mohler’s book, He is Not Silent, speaks of how Contemporary preaching suffers from:
– a loss of confidence in the power of the word
– an infatuation with technology
– embarrassment before the biblical text
– an emptying of biblical content
– an absence of the gospel
My cohost, Dan Stegeman and I want to address these concerns by talking about the pastor and his preaching. Our longing is that pastors get back to solid expository preaching, and that preaching becomes central to the worship experience.
Check out Dan’s blogs on the Gospel Coalition’s website here.
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COVID revealed a lot about us. The church was tested. Never before have we, the church, been forced to consider its response to mandates and rulings. Churches in some states faced little need to resist, while other states were severely tested. Out of this, many pastors and theologians have needed to establish a better theology on resistance for their allegiance to Jesus. Furthermore, our culture is becoming increasingly counter-church and antagonistic to followers of Jesus. What does the Bible say about how we are to obey the government particularly when it targets our gathering, our evangelism and in some cases insist that we accommodate the worlds’ language on gender-sexuality issues? I didn’t have to look far to find the right guy to talk about this. His name is Pastor Dan Samms. Dan has been a guest on numerous podcasts. Pastor Dan is deeply committed to doctrine who believes if the pastor is going to be passionate about anything, it needs to be about what he believes concerning the truths of God’s Word. Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He plants house churches and trains shepherds with Restoration House Church Network. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings and they do all that in Amherst, Oh.
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Mitch Schultz knows what it is to wonder what to say to someone mourning the loss of a loved one. He also knows what it’s like to say something to a mourner and afterward want to kick yourself. If you’ve had either experience, he gets you. But more than that, he has endured loss and […]
The post Podcast Ep.110: Did I Say The Right Thing (Responding Well to Grief). appeared first on Before You Quit.
I grew up in Papua, Indonesia and attended a boarding school for most of my early years. My best friend during that time was Steve Richardson. We’ve connected only a few times in fifty years. (Yikes, that makes me sound really old.) Twenty Four years ago, Steve became the president of Pioneers. I asked him recently […]
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This generation, as have others, is profoundly affected by a secular world view. However more of its impact can also now be felt in the church. How often do we hear of someone we love, a son or daughter, who eventually walks away from their faith, and it all started when someone suggested that Adam […]
The post Podcast Ep.108: Faith, The Gospel and Creation (Chuck Bultman) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Hundreds of church leaders today are ignorant of the power of the flesh in their lives. In our day the false teaching that people are not sinners by nature has returned to the church in force. This has had a profound impact on believers, blinding them to the flesh still resident within them and weakening them in their battle against the ongoing sin nature. Thus many fall short of the victory God intends His people to have. God intends us to have victory over the flesh—but we must first recognize the enemy lurking within us. May God give leaders of His church the wisdom and tenacity to confront what may be the greatest danger to biblical faith in our day: the flesh within us that is at war against us. On this podcast I talk to Dwight Smith about his book on this subject, Freedom from Bondage to the Flesh: Recognizing and Rejecting the Sin That Keeps us from Victory in Christ.
Meet the AuthorDwight P Smith founded Saturation Church Planting International in 1996. He currently works with a growing number of church leaders around the world to mobilize the church for God’s mission: to make the Gospel of Jesus Christ accessible to every man, woman and child in every nation through believers saturating their areas with a living Gospel witness. Dwight’s firm conviction is that if the leadership in the church today will submit themselves back to a biblical theology of leadership we will see the whole body of Christ mobilized into His mission. Check out Dwights webpage here.
For more information about Saturation Church International go here.
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My good friend, Pastor Dan Stegeman had a good idea. “Mitch, I should interview you for my podcast.” I replied, “Great idea.” So we did it and here it is. It was rather emotional to tell my story, but Dan did such a great job with the questions and reflections that by the end we were both thankful not just for this opportunity but for this amazing Savior who has given me the honor to serve him these 61 years.
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If you are parents, I am sure you value the role your parents have in helping raise godly children. If you are grandparents, you know the awesome privilege and responsibility you have with your grandchildren. How often have you heard stories of the godly impact grandparents had in the spiritual development of someone. I had the privilege to sit down with John and Leeba Curlin to talk about their own journey as grandparents, and their wonderful book titled; GRANDPARENTS ON MISSION; Inviting Our Grandchildren to Walk with God. John and Leeba are the parents of seven children, thirty-one grandchildren and four great grandchildren. They love spending their time now investing in their family.
Click on book to order.
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Increasingly, our international workers are serving in the hardest places. Doing missions is hard. Those we send out face tremendous hardship. While their heart-song is to proclaim the gospel, the restrictions in those cultures makes it very difficult. We also call this, Creative Access countries. It takes tremendous creativity to reach Muslims for Christ. I speak to one such servant who shares his story of serving Jesus in a mid-east country. We also talk about how we need to understand the religion of Islam. My encouragement is that you become intentional and regular in your prayers for the Muslim world. I use an app from VOICE OF THE MARTYRS that offers a different country to pray for each day. You can look over that here.
For a previous podcast on working with Muslims go here.
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We assume pastors have it all together. After all, they stand behind the pulpit and preach the Word of God. However, did you know some pastors also struggle with their faith? That is Julian Pace’s story. And he wrote a book about it which you can order by clicking the image before. I appreciated so much Julian’s honestly. At one point he expressed that he is a better pastor for struggling with his faith.
Julian Pace is a Christian pastor and author. He currently serves as the Pastor of Central Alliance Church in Mt. Airy, Ga. He is also the President of Risen Savior Ministries a non-profit Christian ministry dedicated to evangelism and church renewal. Julian is the author of more than a dozen popular and scholarly articles that have all been featured in a variety of Christian publications. Julian’s writing is fueled by the deeply held conviction that authentic fulfillment is found only in an intimate relationship with Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God. When Julian is not preaching, teaching, or writing you may find him singing, playing one of his beloved acoustic guitars, or spending time with his family. Julian holds an MA in Biblical Studies from Piedmont International University (now Carolina University) and is currently pursuing a ThD with a focus in Historical Theology from Evangelical Seminary in Myerstown, PA.
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A couple weeks ago I interviewed Amy Spreeman and Michelle Lesley on the complementarianism view of women in ministry. Today I had the privilege of interviewing Pastor Rob Bashioum on the egalitarian view. I encourage you to learn by deep study in the Word and to learn from the view of others that perhaps might differ to yours.
Rob and his wife Jess are native east coasters who served in Boston before ministering in the middle east for twelve years. Rob has led Reach Training Institute, a four year ministry training college in Salem, Oregon and is currently the lead pastor of Salem Alliance Church. He holds a Masters Degree from Univ of Connecticut (Go Huskies) and a DMin from Alliance Theological Seminary. He and Jess are parents of four beautiful kids.
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** APOLOGIES FOR THE POOR SOUND QUALITY OF THIS PODCAST. I WAS FORCED TO DO THE LAST TWO PODCASTS ONLY USING MY COMPUTER MIC. IT HAS BEEN RESOLVED AND FUTURE PODCASTS WILL BE CLEARER. IN THIS CASE I HAD TO TURN UP THE VULUME TOO MUCH TO COMPENSATE WITH MY VOLUME.
What does the Bible say about music in the Church? What role does the pastor play in the selection of songs? Is worship about music, or is the music part of worship? Should churches sing songs produced by movements that have questionable theology? Where do we draw the line when worship leading turns into a performance? All these questions and more are addressed in this wonderful interview with three pastors and myself. Here’s a little about each of the guys:
Pastor Dan Samms -Dan’s primary role is equipping the saints to make disciples. He plants house churches and trains shepherds with Restoration House Church Network. He also teaches theology for Liberty University and for Underground Seminary. Dan is in love with his wife, Christy. They have three kids, a few chickens, and an awesome dog named “Sam.” Dan drinks good coffee, enjoys fine woodworking, and writes theology curriculum. Christy is a licensed counselor. She owns Hope Counseling and Consultation Services, LLC and is an incredible mother who has a variety of hobbies . Together, they raise their kids, lead the church, and enjoy God’s blessings.
Pastor Eric Anderson – is founding pastor of Lifespring Church, Crosby MN, (www.visitlifespring.com) where he has served for 11 years, previously he served as youth pastors for 7 years in the Evangelical Free Church. He is husband to Miriam, father to 9 children. He also is co-organizer of the Common Slaves Fellowship (www.commonslaves.com), a network of Reformed and Reforming churches and pastors in North East Minnesota. Additionally, he hosts a Zoom meetings podcast called “a Place for Truth”, geared at laymen, which gathers together experienced Reformed pastors and professors to discuss cultural topics.
Pastor Ian Bultman – Served for many years as worship pastor at Alliance Bible Church in Mequon, WI. He now serves as director and president of the Brinkman Adventures, an exciting radio show that tells true, modern, missionary stories through the fictional Brinkman family. Each twenty-six minute episode contains a Biblical theme, lesson, and compelling drama that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Using modern sound effects, original music, and superb writing, Brinkman Adventures are ‘Movies for the Ears’. Check out this radio program here.
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- There are heavy conversations going on today about the role of women in ministry. The two views fall under one of two categories. Either Complementarian or Egalitarian. Here is an adequate definition of each. “Complementarian and egalitarianism are two views used to describe the role of women in the church. Complementarianism is the view that women are limited regarding leadership roles in the church (such as elder/pastor or deacon). Egalitarianism is the view that women can serve in all forms of church leadership, including ordination as pastors.” (Source here) In this podcast, and the one following, I will devote the time to each topic. While I am a Complementarian I try to remain as neutral as I can in both interviews. In this podcast I had the privilege of interviewing Amy Spreeman and Michel Lesley. In a couple weeks I will put out a podcast with C&MA pastor, Rob Bashioum who serves as lead Pastor at Salem Alliance Church.
- Today we will talk about what does the Bible say regarding the role of women in the church? How much is culture shaping the changing views of the role of women either at home or in the church? And, what pastors perhaps need to consider if they are stuck in the middle of this debate.
Here is more information about today’s guests.
Amy Spreeman hails from Minnesota, but has spent most of her adult life across the border in Wisconsin. She and her husband have two grown kids and are empty-nesters, except for the dogs and chickens. Amy enjoys reading and designing websites in her spare time, and loves to listen to Christian audiobooks and podcasts. Growing up, she was fascinated with the cult craze of the 70s, and started researching movements within the visible church after learning first hand how devastating those aberrant gospels (small g) can be. In 2010 she helped launch a discernment radio program called Stand Up for the Truth, and spent 5 years having her mind blown by the level of apostasy in churches around the world. When she speaks at conferences and women’s groups, she points them to the hope of Jesus Christ. She is the founder of Berean Research and Naomi’s Table Bible Studies for Women. You can also check out her archives from earlier work at aspreeman.com.
Michelle Lesley hails from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, (Geaux Tigers!) where she and her husband are the proud parents of five sons and one daughter ranging in age from their teens to their thirties. Michelle loves to read, cook, and stay active in women’s ministry and other activities at church. God has blessed her with ministry opportunities outside the church as well, from authoring a women’s Bible study to writing Sunday School material for a major Christian publisher to speaking all over the country at women’s conferences, on podcasts, and at other events. Currently, Michelle’s ministry focus is discipling Christian women through her writing. Find out more about Michelle and her ministry at her blog: Michelle Lesley- Discipleship for Christian Women.
Both Michelle and Amy host a podcast called, called A Word Fitly Spoken. Check it out here.
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What is the state of Global Missions? Ironically, in my view, globalization has affected our burden for the lost in our world. Or, maybe it’s just me. I remember early in my days of ministry training, you had to work hard to see what was happening in far reaches of the world. We did a ton of reading. Speakers would share powerful stories and implore us to pray and go. Today, with a push of a button we can pretty much connect anywhere in the globe. I’d like, in this podcast, to remind us of the urgency. To remind us that there are still billions of people who have little opportunity to hear of Jesus. To remind us to pray, to support and even go. This conversation with Tim Crouch was helpful to me in having a refreshed burden for missions. I hope it will do the same for you.
Tim Crouch took on the role of vice president for Alliance Missions of The Christian & Missionary Alliance on February 1, 2014. Tim’s role, along with regional and ministry location leaders, is to provide leadership to over 700 U.S. Alliance IWs (with aXcess, marketplace ministries, CAMA, and Envision).
Tim’s heart is to see Alliance Missions help make gospel access available for peoples of the world that lack it, and to flow from peoples who’ve gained it to others who still wait.
Prior to becoming the vice president for Alliance Missions, Tim and his wife, Shelly, served as Alliance international workers (IWs) in Russia from 1995-2010, with seven of those years Tim being the field director for the Alliance there. In 2010 Tim and Shelly were appointed the regional leadership couple for the N&C Asia region where they supervised 75 IWs serving in six countries and worked with national church leaders in each of those nations.
Tim and Shelly reside in Columbus, OH. They have four grown children—Anna, Joshua, David, and Michael.
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Stories grip me. Stories that depict the wonderful work of Jesus in the lives of people grip me more. I have known Glenn Wanless for over twenty years. We met and served together in England. He tells the story of how Jesus met him, called him and continues to do his wonderful work through him. What you will hear today is more evidence that our wonderful Savior has a wonderful and specific touch in how he brings us to himself.
Rev Glenn and Vivienne Wanless, have been serving the Lord in ministry for over 27 years. Glenn has been ordained with the Christian & Missionary Alliance for over 25 years, both he and Vivienne have been used by God to mobilize and unify the body of Christ into Kingdom action. They
lived most of their lives in England becoming Christians in their early 20’s. Glenn earned his degree at an Interdenominational and International seminary while living in Scotland. The focus of their ministry has been church planting, replanting and bringing renewal to Christians and churches.
As well as serving in the UK, they have these past 19 years served in the USA in Montana, Ohio and Florida. They have been married for 34 years and have two children, David and Rachel and 5 grandchildren Benjamin, James, William, Everly and Jovie. They believe that God has called them to bring the whole gospel to the whole world.
The post Podcast Ep.98: The Story of Glenn Wanless appeared first on Before You Quit.
As you know if you have been listening to these podcasts for very long, I love the church. Even though the church has a lot of flaws, and has a long way to go to be what Jesus wants her to be, I still love the church. I love the church not only because Jesus loves the church, after all she is his bride, but I actually love the church because it is meaningful to me. I love the worship, the hearing of the Word, the sacraments, witnessing baptisms, and seeing how it is the church more than any other organization that serves others, the community and the world. I also love the church because we are promised in Ephesians 5:27 that one day Jesus will present her to himself in splendor, without spots or wrinkle that she might be without blemish. While the church is imperfect, God is doing a perfect work through her, through us. That is why I love the church. Now this begs the question. How are we doing? How is the church doing in being this body of Jesus to a dying and lost world. How is the church doing in being a place of worship and place for discipleship? Well, I talked about all that with someone who not only loves the church himself, but knows a lot about it. His name is Terry Smith and Terry serves as Vice President for Church Ministries with the Christian and Missionary Alliance. So grab your coffee, put on your fluffy bunny slippers and lets join Terry in this wonderful conversation about the state of the Church in America.
Rev. Terry Smith was appointed as vice president for Church Ministries with The Christian and Missionary Alliance and began serving in this role on December 1, 2017.
Terry has served with the C&MA since 1981. He pastored Alliance churches in Florida and in Pennsylvania as well as serving in the role of church-planting director in three districts, He was elected superintendent of the Eastern PA district in August 2014. Terry also served on the C&MA Board of Directors prior to being appointed as vice president for Church Ministries in December 2017.
A graduate of Toccoa Falls College, Terry also holds a master’s degree from Crown College. He is the author of Changing Course: Leading Older Churches in a New Direction.
Terry has been married to Ruth since 1977. They have two married, adult sons and five grandchildren.
Order Terry’s book by clicking on the book cover
The post Podcast Ep.97: The State of the Church (Terry Smith) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Have you ever wondered how this generation is doing in defending their faith? I remember back in my early years in ministry doing a number of training programs such as Evangelism Explosion which provided me wonderful tools for sharing the gospel to others. Yet, in forty years so much has changed. We have changed, the church has changed, college institutions have changed and most notable the world around us has changed. It’s not as easy, and dare I say common now to share our faith particularly in a world that more than ever resists that gospel message. How does this generation address moral issues like homosexuality, the redefining of marriage, or the historicity of Adam, or evolution? How is this generation doing in giving clear, solid responses to those hard parts of the Bible like genocide and slavery? Well thankfully someone has put a lot of thought and work into this and placed those thoughts into a wonderful book called The Young Christians Survival Guide: (Defending your faith and common questions young Christians are asked about the God, the Bible and Christian Faith Answered.) I had the privilege to sit down with that author about his book. His name is Don Williams who is is Professor Emeritus of Toccoa Falls College. A border dweller, he stays permanently camped out on the borders between serious scholarship and pastoral ministry, theology and literature, Narnia and Middle-Earth. An ordained minister in The Evangelical Free Church of America, he has spent many years in pastoral ministry and many summers training local pastors in Uganda, Kenya, and India for Church Planting International. He is the author of thirteen books, including Ninety-Five Theses for a New Reformation: A Road Map for Post-Evangelical Christianity and more.
Click on book for order information
The post Podcast Ep. 96: This Generation-Defending The Faith (Don Williams) appeared first on Before You Quit.
In this podcast, Dr. Richard Kronk and I discuss his book, Not Called. Do you remember being called into ministry? How do you look back at that now? I’ll be honest, when I sat down to be interviewed for licensing I felt I had to come up with a dramatic, mystical experience, a supernatural finger […]
The post Podcast Ep.95: Not Called (Dr. Rick Kronk) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Why do pastors quit? Perhaps a positive way to frame this is, what keeps pastors from quitting? The pressures to quit is great. Pastors probably face more pressures than people do in other occupations. The reasons are many and the reasons, and motivations, to not quit are also great. I had the opportunity to speak […]
The post Podcast Ep.94: What Keeps Pastors From Quitting appeared first on Before You Quit.
You’re in college and life is good. You get a phone from your brother that turns your world upside down. You father murdered his wife, your mom. What do you do? How do you process this? Where do you turn? All this happened to Peter Yang only a few years ago. Now an unwelcome participant […]
The post Podcast Ep.93: When Tragedy Hits Home (Peter Yang) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Noelle Moore lost her father, her only child and her marriage in a matter of months. Each of these trials alone can bring even the strongest believer to a place of despair. In this podcast Noelle speaks about the heartache of losing her daughter, Finley, and how God brought about healing and ministry through the […]
The post Podcast Ep.92: Losing a Child (Noelle Moore and the Finley Project) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Legacy matters. Godly legacy matters more. I had a wonderful opportunity recently to sit down and have a great conversation with my nearly 92 year old father, John Schultz. I mainly wanted to leave something for our family. My mom and dad currently have sixteen grandchildren and thirty great-grandchildren. I hope one day they will […]
The post Podcast Ep.91: Conversation With My Dad (John Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I reflect often on how the church is as healthy as it’s families. And a healthy family is where there is a man, a husband and father who loves Jesus, and the gospel is the basis of his commitment to marriage. (I also know many single moms who experience health as they rely on Jesus […]
The post Podcast Ep.90: Being A Loving Husband (Dan Stegeman) appeared first on Before You Quit.
In this third podcast with Prof. Rich Griffith, I talk about Gen Z and sexuality. Gender issues continue to push at the door of the Christian community, institutions and the Church. The Gospel is our defense, but also our banner of hope. Developing a deeper awareness of what is happening to culture around us, encourages […]
The post Podcast Ep.89: GEN Z and Sexuality (Prof. Rich Griffith) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today I interview Marci Renée who “accidentally” found herself working at a safe house in Spain. We discuss her work, her book and the tragedy of human trafficking. By listening to this podcast, you will never be the same. Marci Renée is a global nomad, who has traveled to more than 30 countries and has […]
The post Podcast Ep. 88: RESCUING THE TRAFFICKED (Marci Renée) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I had the privilege of being a guest on another podcast. I include this podcast here where Pastor Dan Samms interviews me on my experience of following a pastor who experienced moral failure. This is the description of that conversation on Dan’s website: Years ago Mitch Schultz was asked to step in to pastor a […]
The post Podcast Ep. 87: MORAL FAILURES & CHURCH RECOVERY (Mitch A Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.
In today’s podcast we are going to look at the challenges and opportunities that happen when someone in ministry enters what many refer to as the second half season of life. Many pastors, missionaries and ministry leaders find themselves in a unique place particularly when they have a couple decades under their belt. Different questions […]
The post Podcast Ep.86: Adapting to the 2nd-Half of Ministry-Life (Jamey Lewis) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Parents are often ill-equipped for the challenges that come when their children become adults. Increasingly I have conversations with friends who’s adult children are either struggling with their faith and/or struggling in their relationship with the parents. This can be deeply disenchanting for parents particularly when they feel they did everything “by the book” in […]
The post Podcast Ep.85: Disarming Rebellion With Adult Children (Tedd and Margy Tripp) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I Want to talk on this episode on how a church transitions well. I remember sitting down with a friend processing a tough church and he made a comment I could never shrug. “Mitch you need to start your transition now. It might need to take you several years, but start your transition”. Unfortunately certain […]
The post Podcast Ep. 84: Passing the Baton (Pastor Brian Dainsberg) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Often in summer I put out fewer podcasts, but I have also had a number of personal challenges that have led me to focus more on family than my other responsibilities. It’s actually fitting I am doing this podcast on the subject of Scripture and prayer as this has been a sustaining discipline for me […]
The post Podcast Ep.83: The Scripture and Prayer (Dr. Ken Boa) appeared first on Before You Quit.
One of my hero’s of the faith, and go to guy, is Charles Spurgeon, the famous pastor from London in the mid 1800’s. I even have a first edition of his devotional book, Morning By Morning. We have so much to learn from past spiritual leaders. I am not sure we really appreciate how their […]
The post Podcast Ep.82: Jonathan Edwards, The Pastor (Pastor Dan Stegeman) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I have the privilege today to interview Sam Thompson, a pastor who happens to also be blind. Before I go to that interview I want to draw your attention to something Sam and I talk about in the closing of our interview. I thought it would be wise to emphasis it again here in the […]
The post Podcast Ep. 81: Pastor and Blind (The Story of Sam Thompson) appeared first on Before You Quit.
It’s not often I have had the opportunity to talk so openly with someone suffering a terminal illness. I think we would all agree that the church and even our culture is ill prepared to have hard and honest conversations about death and dying. In this podcast my goal is to help the church, help […]
The post Podcast Ep. 80: Living With Terminal Illness -Scott Borderud appeared first on Before You Quit.
I have to admit, as I get older I stand back curious and some times burdened as I watch the up and coming generation navigate perhaps some of the same challenges we grew up with, but perhaps with different world views. I have also observed with keen interest, and equal concern how progressive Christianity is […]
The post Podcast Ep. 79: GEN Z and the Gospel (Dr. Rich Griffith) appeared first on Before You Quit.
For some time I have been wanting to talk about the pastor and his money. One of the stresses in ministry is the pastor’s need for security which can add to the tensions in his life. A low paying ministry. Debt. Moves. Unexpected change. THis is an important topic because it is also a kingdom […]
The post Podcast Ep: 78 The Pastor and His Money (Russ Crosson) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today I have the privilege of interviewing Jim Newheiser on the topic of Pastors, Parents and Prodigals. I’ve been wanting to do this podcast for some time but wasn’t sure how to approach it. Increasingly, with my ministry, and even out of my personal friendships, I am becoming burdened for parents navigating the reality that […]
The post Podcast Ep.77: Pastors, Parents and Prodigals (Dr. Jim Newheiser) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Since last podcast we need something lighter. Let me give some context. I grew up in Papua, Indonesia and have the fondest memories of traveling from one village of town to another thanks to a mission organization called Mission Aviation Fellowship. Like many missionary kids I longed to one day become a pilot, and while […]
The post Podcast Ep:76 The Legacy of MAF (Dave Fyock) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Like many of you I have been reeling from the stories that have come out in the last years of great Christian leaders, mostly men, who have fallen hard. How do we respond to these events? What is it doing for the church or to the church? Why does this even happen to people we look […]
The post Podcast Ep.75: When Christian Leaders Fail Us (Nick Stumbo) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I picked up and read best selling author Dave Harvey’s popular book “When Sinners Say I Do” about a year ago, and I loved it. How important it was to be reminded that problems happen in marriage because we are sinners, but there is hope because we have a Savior. Not long ago, I connected […]
The post Podcast Ep. 74: When Sinners Say ‘I DO’. (Dave Harvey) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I want to talk today about the gospel and the right kind of anger. Much of this comes from my own personal reflection on how we are to respond when so much seems so wrong around us. Is it possible to act in love, to respond in love, motivated and driven by the gospel and […]
The post Podcast Ep.73: The Gospel and Right Anger (Dan Samms and Eric Anderson) appeared first on Before You Quit.
With so much changing in our church, as we seek to reach each other and reach culture around us what we want to talk about today is the role of biblical education in our church life. My encouragement to you as a pastor and church leader, is as you make changes, as you adjust, as […]
The post Podcast Ep.72: Keeping Biblical Ed. In Your Church (Rev. Alan Wilson) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I recorded this podcast in February, just before COVID. Have a good laugh at my reference to the primaries in Maine. Seems like years ago, doesn’t it? I interview pastor Steve about his involvement with IPM (Intentional Pastoral Interim) and how best to help troubled churches. We don’t just talk about the role of the […]
The post Podcast Ep.71: Troubled Church and the Interim (Pastor Steve Kerhoulas) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I have a question. Maybe two? What is happening to the church during COVID? What will happen to the church? We are hearing a lot about what COVID is doing to the church and to believers. (I A study done by The Barna Group suggests that because of this reason one in five churches will […]
The post Podcast Ep.70: Seeing Church Matter Again: Post-COVID (Eddie Cole) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today is a hard topic but a necessary one. I want to talk about something the church needs to be more aware of than I think we are and that is the topic of opioid addiction. You will also find later in the podcast that this is a very personal subject for me as I […]
The post Podcast Ep. 69: Opioid Addiction and the Church appeared first on Before You Quit.
In this podcast I muse over the state of the gospel, post-Covid. I also encourage the pastor to commit to gospel-centered, Biblically-solid expository preaching. My suggestion is; the church that will remain strong are those who are committed to the gospel. I also look at some of the pressures threatening the church, distracting her from […]
The post Podcast Ep.68: The Gospel Post-Covid (My own musings) appeared first on Before You Quit.
It’s Interesting how this podcast turned out. I asked around for someone I could interview on the subject of addiction, mainly the issue of addictions to opioids and how the church should understand it and respond and so someone was recommended to me. His name is Mark Danzey. I sat down with Mark and as […]
The post Podcast Ep.67: The Pastor and Pornography (Pastor Mark Danzey) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Brett Schultz grew up in a pastor’s home and he’s actually a normal kid. Pastors try as best they can to assure their children do not grow up with the common stigmas that come with being a PK (Pastor’s Kid). The pressure to represent the family well can be a heavy burden for any child […]
The post Podcast Ep 8: Storms and the Pastor’s Home (with Brett Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.
What exactly is being asked of us? Why should I be responsible for the sins of my ancestors? I’m not racist, but why am I made to feel like I am? What do you mean, ‘unless I am anti racist, then I am racist? It feels you’re asking for penance, not repentance? Can there really […]
The post Podcast Ep.66: A White and a Black Pastor Talk Race and Social Justice appeared first on Before You Quit.
In today’s conversation with Rev. Mark Barnard and Dr. Kenneth Quick we are going to talk about dancing in church. Okay, now I know I have your attention. But no, not that kind of dancing. We will be discussing the dance of gifts in the church. Here’s what the conversation will be about: Much has […]
The post Podcast Ep.65: The Dance of Gifts in the Church (Mark Barnard and Ken Quick) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Let me start with a question, maybe a bit tongue in cheek. What if during this Covid 19 season while the church has been fasting from meeting corporately that the antagonist in the church have had a huge change of heart and are now determined to come back fully supporting the pastor and the church […]
The post Podcast Ep.64: What Makes for Toxic Churches (Dr. Chris Creech) appeared first on Before You Quit.
During this Covid 19 season (I’m sure it will have a better name down the road) I have been thinking a lot about what this will do to or for the church. Will we be stronger for it? Is this one of those events that God will use to sift the church, from those who […]
The post Podcast Ep.63: The State of the Gospel in America (Brandon Kimber) appeared first on Before You Quit.
What a time we live. Who would have thought even three months ago that this would be our story. Stay at home. Places closed. People lose jobs. During this time my heart has mostly gone to the pastor who longs to continue shepherding his people who are severely being tested. Yet here we are. To […]
The post Podcast Ep:62 Pastoring During The Coronavirus appeared first on Before You Quit.
Aside from the Bible, one other book served as my lifeline during the hardest period of my life; my wife’s brain surgery and subsequent struggle to recover her speech, reading/writing skills, and my son’s passing to cancer just months after. That book was A Grace Disguised by Dr. Gerald Sittser. I’ve read the book probably […]
The post Podcast Ep. 38: How the Soul Grows Through Loss (Dr. Gerald Sittser) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Oh, the great stuff we can gain from the previous generations. But how will we ever do that unless we pause long enough and listen to their stories. When is the last time you sat down with an elderly saint in your church, or even sat down with your parents or grandparents and listened to […]
The post Podcast Ep.25: Leaving A Godly Legacy! (John and Janine Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.
We live in a day when increasingly people are living in a vacuum, many around us not sure what to believe or even not sure what they believe. This is why it is so important that the pastor and church leaders and even those who are part of the body of Christ own what they […]
The post Podcast Ep.61: The Pastor and Good Doctrine (Pastor Dan Samms) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today we’re going to talk theology, especially the theology of suffering. If the church is ever going to become a healing community it needs to have a solid theology of suffering. A pastor who has a theology of suffering prepares his people for times of hardship and also empowers his people to serve one another […]
The post Podcast Ep.60: A Theology of Suffering (Michelle Bates) appeared first on Before You Quit.
And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken. Eccl.4:12 Some have asked me when we will tell our story of loss and recovery in our family. And what was it like on our marriage. If you listen to this podcast enough you […]
The post Podcast Ep.59: The Third Cord in Our Marriage (Our Story-Mitch and Elaine Schultz) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Some of the most beautiful stories that we hear today are those kind of stories that help us understand the gospel. The gospel story is simply the story of us, people made in the imagine of God who rebelled against him, but he because of his great love pursued us by dying for us, Jesus […]
The post Podcast Ep.58: The Story of Being Adopted (Tatiana Fortney) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Did you know that 30 million people in our nation suffer from some kind of eating disorder? If this is true, than there is a good chance that a good number of people who attend your church struggle with this? We want to help you today not just to understand the scope of this reality, […]
The post Podcast Ep.57: What the Church Should Know About Eating Disorders (Heather Lenox) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I know that today’s topic is touching on something that is not talked much about. However, in my over 34 years of pastoring it’s an issue that is all to real in the church community and it is the subject of sexual abuse. Through my counseling and pastoral ministry I have met countless people who […]
The post Podcast Ep.56: The Impact of Sexual Abuse on the Marriage (Dr. Bill Ronzheimer) appeared first on Before You Quit.
“It is God’s love for us that He not only gives us His Word but also lends us His ear…So it is His work that we do for our brother when we learn to listen to him. Christians, especially ministers, so often think they must always contribute something when they are in the company of […]
The post Podcast Ep.55: The Gospel and Listening (Pastor Darryl Handy) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today we are going to talk about adoption. It has amazed me to observe through the years how often I’ve seen pastors adopt children. Today I have the privilege of interviewing two young pastors and their wives about their experience with adoption. You will find that the journey for them was hard, real, and full […]
The post Podcast Ep.54: The Pastor and Adoption (Mosser and Santor) appeared first on Before You Quit.
It’s been some time now that I have wanted to tell our story, in particular my wife, Elaine’s story. Twenty years ago our family faced a trial that I know was survivable only because of the help of our Lord Jesus. As we were wrapping up a season of ministry in England, Elaine fell into […]
The post Podcast Ep.53: Grace and Grit. (The story of Elaine, my wife.) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I have always been moved by the story of William Wilberforce the parliamentary figure who fought his whole career as a politician and Christian to see the abolition of slavery in the British Empire in the early 1880s. Amazingly, just three days after hearing that he passage of the act had been assured, he died; […]
The post Podcast Ep.52: Speaking for the Unborn – A hard conversation about abortion. (Jenny Golding and Beckie Langtson) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today’s topic will be raw and very real. The title was given to me by the person I am interviewing, Todd Adams. The power of the gospel that transforms lives in tragedy. This is the story, the testimony of a man who’s trust in Christ has been deepened by the hardships of serving Jesus in […]
The post Podcast Ep.51: Transforming Power of the Gospel in Tragedy (Todd Adams) appeared first on Before You Quit.
For years as a pastor and even since, I have loved counseling because I love to see people change. I love fighting for marriages. I do everything I can to keep couples from divorcing. I rejoice when couples who’ve been fighting and angry at each other now embracing with a new love. I absolutely love […]
The post Podcast Ep.50: You Can Counsel Too! (Dr. Harold Rhoades) appeared first on Before You Quit.
It strikes me sometimes, that the generation that we now call, Gen Z will be making decisions for people in my generation in the future. Having a granddaughter who is in the next generation makes me extremely motivated to understand all the generations that follow me. The church has a tremendous privilege and responsibility to follow […]
The post Podcast Ep.49: The Gospel and GEN Z (Dan Boal, Director of Youth – The C&MA) appeared first on Before You Quit.
CLICK HERE OR ON THE BOOK COVER ON RIGHT TO ORDER BOOK This will be a first for this podcast. But it will fit the vision of bringing courage and perspective when serving gets hard. I have the privilege today to discuss a portion of the Bible called the Beatitudes with an author who wrote a book about […]
The post Podcast Ep.48: Pastor, Let’s Talk Beatitudes (Pastor John Fogal) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Let me start with an analogy that will help lead us into this conversation about disorientation in ministry. As a a pilot, one of the things I had to learn early on in my training was how to recover from a situation in flying called Spatial Disorientation, define as the inability of a person to […]
The post Podcast Ep.47: Learning Resilience in Ministry (Phil Howard and Jeff Gangel) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Have you ever wondered why there is so often conflict in the church? On the surface, you would think that those who come together for a common purpose of worship and serving Jesus would all get a long, but its often not that way. One reason is I think we underestimate the impact of people […]
The post Podcast Ep:46 Why There is Conflict in the Church – Pastor Steve Kerhoulus appeared first on Before You Quit.
“You and I have it in our power to demotivate our pastors, so that they are gradually ground down into a slough of despond from which they will be utterly unable to do us any good at all. But we also have it in our power so to cheer them, so to put a spring […]
The post Podcast Ep.45: Helping Your Pastor Be The Best Pastor -Christopher Ash appeared first on Before You Quit.
In several ways this is a follow up to my last podcast, but perhaps broader. It’s been intriguing to me to observe so many changes in the past decade, and one thing in particular I am still trying to understand what to do with it. So much of the training of believers has been to […]
The post Podcast Ep.44: Godly Character for a Godless World (Dr. Bob Myers president Toccoa Falls College) appeared first on Before You Quit.
This is a needed conversation, especially as the church, as we believers find ourselves trying to figure out our response to the moral dilemma impacting our society. We are no longer just preparing our people on how to respond to the issues of our world, but now we are the ones struggling ourselves with these […]
The post Podcast Ep.43: Sexual Identity and the Gospel Response appeared first on Before You Quit.
Some times I wonder how well I would do raising children even teenagers today. Maybe all parents feel blessed that they are not having to raise children during this generation. Even those raising them now will likely say the same thing when their children are all grow’d-up. One thing every parent who is seeking to […]
The post Podcast Ep.42: Navigating Social Media -Trace Embry appeared first on Before You Quit.
Lets talk Church! Do we need to resign oursleves to the notion that church as we know it is dead? A recent FoxNews story wrote the following: “Now, about a decade ago, forward-thinking churches realized that people no longer engaged with organizations just physically, so they developed online platforms that streamed services parallel to the physical […]
The post Podcast Ep. 41: Church Matters (Dr. Dwight Smith) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I am not sure we appreciate as well as we should what its like to serve the Lord Jesus and share the gospel with people in a society with little freedoms. Most of us are aware that many believers from the US and other nations are working undercover in a sense in what we call […]
The post Podcast Ep.40: The Cost of the Gospel in Closed Countries appeared first on Before You Quit.
I grew up in the jungles of Papua, Indonesia. Over 200 tribes with distinct languages spread across the landscape of this rugged island. It was only in the late 1950’s that many of these tribes heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. I remember as a child hearing of the tragic death of two men, Phil […]
The post Podcast Ep.39: The Martyrdom of Phil Masters told by his Wife, Phyliss appeared first on Before You Quit.
Those who have any connection with Toccoa Falls College will know exactly what happened on November 6, 1977. The flood at Toccoa Falls College, pushing millions of gallons of water through a weakened earthen dam, took the lives of 39 people. Several lost their entire family. The story you’re going to hear in this podcast […]
The post Podcast Ep. 37: 11.6.77 – Surviving the Toccoa Falls Flood (Pastor Bob Harner) appeared first on Before You Quit.
One of my passions with the Before You Quit podcast is to reach not just pastors and ministry leaders, but also to relate to elders who serve these churches and pastors. One of my greatest joys with this ministry is when I see elders coming around their pastor, serving him, making him accountable to them, […]
The post Podcast Ep 36: The Elders; Guardians to the Pastor appeared first on Before You Quit.
We’re going to talk today about what it is like to be serving in a closed country. When we say closed country, we mean a culture where sharing the gospel freely is not possible without likely recriminations. I will not be using the person’s real name that I am interviewing, but I will refer to […]
The post Podcast Ep. 35: Serve At Your Own Risk (A Pastor Discusses His Work in a Closed Muslim Country) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Several weeks I drove through the campus of Toccoa Falls College near where I live and watched hundred of students streaming toward the auditorium of the college for their chapel service. I looked at these young faces and remembered being where they are. That was a long time ago, actually 35 years ago and so […]
The post Podcast Ep. 34: Let’s Stop Calling it, “BIG CHURCH”. (Dr. Rich Griffith) appeared first on Before You Quit.
In the 1980’s AIDS was an unfamiliar disease leaving those with the diagnoses alone and often shunned. It was during this time that young Ian Puckett, was diagnosed with AIDS due to a blood transfusion following a serious accident he and his father, Henry, were in. Up to this time, Henry and his wife Donna […]
The post Podcast Ep.33: A Pastor Tells A Gripping Story of Losing His Only Child to AIDS appeared first on Before You Quit.
It’s generally accepted that most people leave churches because of personal conflict, not because of theological differences. We hear too often of churches that are hurting because of conflict and sometimes this pain can last for years. Is it possible God is behind that pain more than we might think? Often, visible conflict in a […]
The post Podcast Ep 32: When Your Church is Hurting (Rev. Mark Barnard) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I think we would all agree that suffering produces the best leaders. I am amazed when I talk to people who consistently tell me that they are who they are because of how God shaped them during hard trials. In other places I have share about my own personal trials. When I recount these stories […]
The post Podcast Ep 31: The Burden of Leadership (John Stumbo, President of the C&MA) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Gerald Sittser in his book A Grace Disguised portrays us in respect to God’s sovereignty as actors on a stage who take part in the story that he tells. I love watching God work even when things do not go the way I expect they would, especially in the ministry context. If you would have […]
The post Podcast Ep 30: When Ministry Doesn’t Go the Way You planned (Pastor Jay Mosser) appeared first on Before You Quit.
We hear often of pastors who experience some kind of failure. They are statistics, far off stories, but rarely someone we know, or hear personally about. I’m talking to someone today who knows too well the depth of shame and loss that comes when the heart is not guarded from the all too common temptations […]
The post Podcast Ep 29: A Recipient of Grace in a Time of Failure (Jay Depoy) appeared first on Before You Quit.
In 2013 my wife and I moved to Augusta GA for what turned out to be one year ministry of helping replant a church that had just closed. Several months after our move a dynamic young couple, Chris and Carla Gerlach, moved near us to help us in this mission and to network with several […]
The post Podcast Ep 28: A Pastor’s Wife Recovers Her Identity After Her Life is Shattered (A Tribute to Chris Gerlach) appeared first on Before You Quit.
A little over 18 years ago my wife Elaine and I and our family returned to the States practically ruined. My wife was just beginning her recovery from brain surgery, and two weeks after o ur return our oldest son was diagnosed with, and ended up dying from brain cancer. We left England after having […]
The post Podcast Ep.27: Pastoring in a Post Christian Culture (Andy Jordan, Warrington UK) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Have you ever been in a situation where someone is grieving the loss of a loved one, and you just don’t know what to say? Sometimes you feel you’ve said the wrong thing, and other times you walk away having said nothing and you feel horrible about it. I really believe the ministry to grieving […]
The post Podcast Ep.26: Speaking Love to Those Who Grieve (Dennis Dodge) appeared first on Before You Quit.
What is better than resolving conflict? Avoiding conflict! Or at least seeing conflict as healthy to the strength of your church. In our last podcast interview we talked to Ken Sande, of Peacemaker Ministry about the value and importance of bringing about resolution to conflict. In his 30 years in this ministry, Ken also discovered […]
The post Podcast Ep.24: When Conflict is Healthy (Part 2 with Ken Sande) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Often when difficult people are confronted for bad behavior it’s easier for them to run somewhere else than stay and work it out. I love it when the circle of restoration that began with confronting sin, and then leads to repentance and confession is completed in reconciliation. Sadly, I’ve not seen it often. I remember […]
The post Podcast Ep.23: Can’t We All Just Get Along? A Case for Gospel Peacemaking with Ken Sande appeared first on Before You Quit.
I remember years ago listening to well know pastors and often thinking, wow, it would be so cool to sit down with them and ask any questions I wanted.Well, I had such a privilege recently when I sat down with Pastor Stuart Briscoe to talk to him about pastoring in this critical age. There were moments […]
The post Podcast Ep.22: Pastoring in Critical Times (Pastor Stuart Briscoe) appeared first on Before You Quit.
You probably have heard this statement before. I love Jesus, but I’m not a big fan of the church. There is strong evidence today that our millennial generation, I know, they get picked on a lot don’t they, is becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the church. This generation is what I would refer to as the […]
The post Podcast Ep. 21: The Optional-Church Generation (An Interview with several students from Toccoa Falls College) appeared first on Before You Quit.
“Why the trend towards ministry as a second career? Is this a positive trend? Is it a trend about which the church should be worried? Why are fewer younger women and men not pursuing ordained ministry upon graduation from college as was the case in the past? Do second career clergy bring greater maturity and […]
The post Podcast Ep.20: It’s Never Too Late to be a Pastor; The Second Career Pastor (Rev. Dick Brown) appeared first on Before You Quit.
What the pastor believes really matters, and what his congregation believes really matters. Spiritual discernment is vital in the pastor’s commitment to stand for the gospel, and to stand against false beliefs. How does he remain faithful to the gospel when compromise and accommodation are the norm? I’ve covered a lot of topics to this […]
The post Podcast Ep. 19: Holding On to The Truth In A Confused World (Steven Kozar) appeared first on Before You Quit.
We talk a lot in these podcasts about the sort of hard things pastor’s face; marriage challenges, hard people in the pastor’s life, the struggle with children and even facing loss. My goal has been pretty singular with all the interviews, and that is to encourage the pastor to keep his focus, to not be […]
The post Podcast Ep. 18: The Pastor and Theological Anxiety (Dr. Brian Shelton) appeared first on Before You Quit.
I am sure you can identify with these following comments: I wish I was preaching more. If only I could take on more responsibility, I would be happier. I wish the board would let me start that ministry program. Even if you are not a pastor or in ministry you have longed to do something […]
The post Podcast Ep 17: Finding Your Sweet Spot in Ministry (Pastor Marshall Benbow) appeared first on Before You Quit.
“Antagonists go for the jugular. They have a singular goal. They want to hurt, humiliate and destroy the senior pastor. In the course of their attacks, they intentionally want to divide the congregation between those that agree with them and the supporters of the rector.” Dr. Dennis R. Maynard. Pastors face a lot of challenges, […]
The post Podcast Ep 16: The Pastor’s Survival Guide For When Sheep Attack (Dr. Dennis Maynard) appeared first on Before You Quit.
With Dr. Bill Ronzheimer What does it take to remain passionate and committed to the gospel that will take you the long haul in ministry? I read one stat how 80% of pastors will leave the ministry within their first five years. Some, I’m sure, leave for good reasons and are still serving Jesus faithfully. […]
The post Podcast Ep. 15: Lessons From Ministry Longevity appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today we are going to talk about the pastor’s wife and it struck me as I was preparing for this that I have been married to a pastor’s wife for over 30 years. And while she’s been amazing, I know there were times where it was difficult. There is no defined role, but there are […]
The post Podcast Ep.14: The Pastor’s Wife (with Shari Thomas) appeared first on Before You Quit.
What do you do when you’re great at pastoring but not that good at marriage. I ask the question often, can a pastor and his wife have a good ministry when the marriages is hanging by a thread? I enter into a very delicate conversation with a young pastor and his wife who from the […]
The post Podcast Ep.13: When Ministry Gets in the Way of Marriage appeared first on Before You Quit.
Most pastors will often tell that they are like a small time pilot being asked to fly a huge plane, something way beyond their ability. Most of us in ministry will even feel that all the training in the world will not prepare us enough to do this job. There is something about pastoring, or […]
The post Podcast Ep 12: A Healthy Inadequacy in Ministry appeared first on Before You Quit.
Today we are going to talk about the preverbal elephant in the room, and that is what to do when there is conflict in the church, or even conflict in your own life. How do you respond when people in your church do not get along. Perhaps one of the saddest thing a pastor ever […]
The post Podcast Ep 11: Thriving Through Church Conflict – How to Grow When People Don’t Get Along! appeared first on Before You Quit.
“Confessing sins to each other makes for a healthier more humble church.” – Prof. Russell Huizing We hear the story too often. A well loved pastor, seemingly well put together, a model of righteousness, is outed as a sinner. He’s committed moral failure, or admitted to a sexual or alcohol addiction. And everyone is shocked. […]
The post Podcast Ep 10: Acting On Your Confession (Prof. Russell Huizing) appeared first on Before You Quit.
Are pastors allowed to struggle? It seems too often that those in ministry are expected to keep their struggles to themselves. Carly Simons’ well known song, Haven’t Got Time for The Pain could easily have been written for pastors who struggle to hide their pain behind the busyness of ministry and the expectations of others. […]
The post Podcast Ep 9: I Haven’t Got Time For The Pain – A Hard Look at Depression in Ministry appeared first on Before You Quit.
“When is it time to move on?” Is a question many pastors ask. Even if you are a not a pastor, it’s critical you know your pastor is probably asking this question. Your role is important to his health. Encouraging him and praying for him provides the life and fuel for an affective ministry. Letting […]
The post Podcast Ep 7: Should I Stay or Should I Go? appeared first on Before You Quit.
What happens when someone close to you, who you committed to serve with, and together dedicated your life to follow Jesus, is no longer with you. Being a pastor, or being in any kind of ministry vocation is different than any other job, in that, it really takes both you and your spouse to do […]
The post Podcast Ep 6: The Call of God, Recovered and Strengthened in Grief appeared first on Before You Quit.
All of us, whether in ministry or not, will find ourselves at times running out of steam. Fatigue, discouragement, lack of fruit and criticism can take any faithful servant and turn him into an ineffective slave to self-doubt and even quiet rebellion. We all need at times that preverbal kick in the pants to be […]
The post Podcast Ep 5: Serving At The Top of Your Game by Not Going it Alone appeared first on Before You Quit.
Henry Nouwen uses the phrase wounded healer to describe those who are more effectively able to serve out of their hurt. He writes how the great illusion of leadership is to think that man can be led out of the desert by someone who has never been there! Phil and Cheryl Hagar are wounded healers, […]
The post Podcast Ep. 4: Wounded Healers Serve Others Well (pt.3/3) appeared first on Before You Quit.
What happens when the gospel impacts a hurting marriage? Restoration happens. Two people, committed to each other for over 28 years, now face the real prospect of shattered dreams. Yet, especially for Cheryl, the wedding vows meant something. And for Phil, the gospel, this sheer determination to make sure this life is lived for Jesus, […]
The post Podcast Ep.3: Jesus Graciously Holds The Last Thread (part 2/3) appeared first on Before You Quit.
The impulse is to say, no way! Your ministry can only be as strong as the pastor, or as strong as his family. Yet, over and over we see pastors struggle at home while leading seemingly healthy ministries. Phil and Cheryl Hagar peel away the layers to reveal how at the core, the pastor will […]
The post Podcast Ep 2: Can Your Ministry Be Healthy When Your Marriage is Not? (part 1/3) appeared first on Before You Quit.
In this inaugural podcast, I discuss how every believer is called to live for the Great Commission and the Gospel, but with the understanding that God places certain people to lead this charge. We call them pastors, elders, church leaders and many other titles. We also understand that ministry leaders face some of the greatest […]
The post Podcast Ep 1: The Fifth Hardest Job in the World – Pastoring appeared first on Before You Quit.
