DFW Rockstars: Recent Episodes

Master Computing

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Justin Shelley

My concept when I started this podcast, DFW Rockstars, is around two things:

I think all of us, every human on the planet, they have something to offer me. They're smarter than me at something. They have an experience that I can learn from. I believe that about everybody on the planet. So I'm a big believer in community and relationships and leveraging each other's experience. All right. So that's, that's one.

Richard Gibson

I would love to see that one, right? Yeah.

Justin Shelley

There's nobody that I know that came up with a business plan executed on it and went right where they projected, they were going to go.

Richard Gibson

No, everyone falls. They fall a lot. And hopefully if you fall on your face, you're at least going the right direction. It's when you fall on your rump and don't get back up, but you got to learn to get back up. And I think that's part of what you're helping do here is finding people to help you get back up and keep going, because you can't win every time in every business idea. Right. You know, you know, I hate to use baseball as an analogy to use it, but would you rather have someone that gets on base every time they get to bat or someone that hits a home run, you know, 20% of the time, which batting 200 for home runs is an amazing, right? Yeah. That's amazing. So would you rather have someone that gets on first, every time at bat batting a thousand to get on first or batting, you know, 200 to get a home run?

Justin Shelley

I mean, we want to, we want to get there every time, right?

Richard Gibson:

I think so. Yeah. You guys, that gives you, you know, cause that's the strategy you want to do and because you can't have every business ideas, a home run.

Justin Shelley:

And not only that, but the execution's never going to be perfect. The forethought, the strategy that you thought was going to work isn't I mean, hell who saw COVID coming, right? Let's beat this dead horse.

Richard Gibson:

Well, there are a few people that have been saying we were due another pandemic. They didn't see COVID itself, but they saw a pandemic coming true, you know, but you know it, but it's going to be like every other pandemic is going to circle the globe at least two times. Right. You know? And, and that's what we're going through as the second one we've been able to, as they say, flatten the curve, but at what cost.

Justin Shelley:

Yeah. Ooh. Now you're going to get me fired up.

Richard Gibson:

Well, yeah, me too.

Justin Shelley:

Cause that's not what we're here to talk about today, but that is my Oh, nothing gets me lit more than that. What the CDC refers to as excess deaths, suicide rates, you know, all this stuff that we're not even talking about. As we try to control something that is largely uncontrolled.

Richard Gibson:

Oh yeah. All's we're doing is mitigating.

Justin Shelley:

Right. Which is fine and mitigate away, but at the cost of what we've got to do a cost benefit analysis. And, and so few people do that.

Richard Gibson:

I'm not a real political guy, but poor governor Abbott. Yeah. I mean, try to make rules for a state this size. I mean, what's good for DFW metroplex. Doesn't work for Alpine, Texas. Doesn't work for Tyler, Texas. And so, you know, what he's doing is giving guidelines to the local ones to try to make the decisions. But then you have the problem, like when this was early on, you know, like you have a city, like Plato decides they're closing everything down and then the city right. North of, at Frisco, this is all we're not closing anything down. All right. And so I think that's where governor Abbott did actually an excellent job of saying, okay, here's the criteria. So like now with the hospital beds utilization over a seven day, rolling average being above 15% for COVID patients, we have to roll back. The, okay. That actually made sense to me, but going to zero and closing everything down, I really feel for people that had to, you know, suffer through all that.

Justin Shelley:

Well, and you and I are fortunate enough to be an industry that didn't get just shut off.

Richard Gibson

We didn't get shut off, but it Affected us back in april.

Richard Gibson

You know, I'm seeing it is like the faucet turned off. I don't know.

Justin Shelley

No. Cause that was right at your primary tax time. That's the primary tax preparation man.

Richard Gibson:

Government moved that late July to July. Um, okay. That's all right. That'll be good. That's nice. Oh wait, are these people are going to come in? Are they not going to come in? I just don't know what's going to happen.

Justin Shelley:

I had not contemplated that.

Richard Gibson:

It's just, you know, little regulatory change changes, everything you plan and budgeted for. And so it was like, you know, we're sitting here with the complete unknown what's going to happen. And then you've got people sitting at home saying, you know what? I think I'll start reading and figuring out how to do my own taxes and which was fine. But I had several people that said they started doing that. And that's why they came back.

Justin Shelley:

Absolutely. I played that game because it's like, yeah. Oh, have you read these instructions? This is why we pay people to do stuff. Exactly.

Richard Gibson:

You know, it's like, if you are comfortable doing it, then do it. It, it, it, there's nothing wrong with it. But if it's not something you are, have a propensity to do, don't.

Justin Shelley:

Agreed a hundred percent. So, on this subject, right. We're, we're dealing with globally, we're dealing with a challenge that very few people saw. There was, there was no plan in place. We're all scrambling.

I was interviewing another gentleman a while back and they kind of said, well, this is really just normal. If you think about it, because business, like we said, there's no straight line to success. Everything about running a business is, or really life is about pivot. It's, it's taking your best guess acting on it. If, and when it doesn't go the way you plan, figuring out your next step.

So, one of the things that I like to talk about on this show is the greatest pivot point you've dealt with the biggest challenge, the curve ball that was thrown at you, that knocked you off your rocker, um, that you, you had to get back up from. So, what was the point, if you could boil it down to the worst, the, you know, the, the most gut-wrenching challenge you had to deal with in the business world.

Richard Gibson:

All right. Well, I'd like to commend you on that. Great segue. Now that was, that was very good. Almost professional life. Now for me was the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009.

I was, I don't want to say master of my universe then. Cause I thought I could do no wrong. Uh, I could go down to the bank, borrow a million dollars on my signature, go get another, do another business was no issue. Well then, that financial crisis came, and I learned how dangerous debt and leverage was. I've never been a big consumer debt guy. I've always thought, nah, I don't want consumer debt. I'll take business debt. I'll leverage it up so I can make more money. Well then, that financial crisis came in Texas. We weren't so bad, but then all the sudden the bank started calling my notes, due. Oh, Oh, Whoa. Uh, Oh, this line of credit that I was going to use to go through this slow time, they're going to say, “Oh, we must cancel that.” You can't do that. Um, okay. And so, I found myself all of a sudden in a position with a debt being so large and being called that I had, instead of being able to plan out over years of repaying this stuff days.

Justin Shelley:

So when, and this is a valid question and I'll show you my ignorance when it comes to finances. When the bank calls a loan, they're asking you to repay at a hundred percent, right then?

Richard Gibson

Within well with mine, it was within 30 days.

Justin Shelley:

And they can do that even though that wasn't the term that you originally agreed on or is that just in the fine print somewhere? And we don't know, it.

Richard Gibson:

It depends on what type of loan it is and such like that. So, each one is different depending on what the promissory note is. These were some lines of credit and mine just happened to be on a couple of my others. They were balloon notes that were coming due that were amortized longer. And so, it was time to do a refinance of the balloon because, okay. And then the financial meltdown came. They just said, no thanks. And they said, yeah, we're not going to do. And it's like, wow. Wow. Um, I didn't see this coming. And see, that's the one thing that also frustrates me is there are people that orchestrated that meltdown in the Northeast. I'm not going to name any specific street. Fair enough. You know, because I might hit a wall. Um, that none of those people went to jail. There was no penalty. There's no, nothing. Every time they do this main street, America gets hurt. But yet there's no. And I just, yeah, Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, you know, all them. It's just like, you know, it used to do things to facilitate. And now we have companies that don't make money that are on the stock market with ridiculous valuations. Uh, I just, I don't understand what it's all about them getting our money. The insiders and the outsiders were outsiders they're insiders and they want more of ours

Justin Shelley:

And then they've got the strings to pull, to make it happen. Yeah.

Richard Gibson:

And so with this, you know, and that's how that whole house of cards, debt, and that's what it did. And so what it took me to do is bringing in a close group of advisors to help me navigate this and figure out how to, how to finish advisors. Some are friends, some are professionals, actually a couple were, uh, pastors. I found that my, a couple of pastors that were, uh, friends of mine that are executive pastors of the churches, they don't really preach, but they run the churches. And so, you know, and they helped give me some guidance. They help give me some things. And then the other thing I did is I looped my staff in and had a meeting. I told them what was going on. And I was like, you know, you know, I got to one point, I didn't know if I was gonna make payroll at the end of the week.

Richard Gibson:

And so I told them, I said, the first per payroll, this is going to be cut as mine. And then I'm going to go through everything I can, you know, and of that at that time, I think I had 22 employees. I had one that left because they were afraid. But when they got their paycheck, they said, Oh, I thought you said, we weren't going to pay. I said, no. I said, you may not get the whole paycheck. They got 92% of their pay. So I was able to sell some things, do something and rearrange some things because I decided that taking care of my team was the most important thing. And you know, but it was, it was devastating.

Justin Shelley:

You touch on two things. I want to point out and maybe dig into a little bit more, but at least highlight. So, number one you're and I love that. I get kind of beat on a little bit. I'm told I'm too transparent sometimes, but I will. I like, I want people to know what's going on because the opposite of that is that they live in fear. Right. If our employees aren't dumb, they see what's going on. And if you're not honest with them, then they're probably going to be out job hunting anyways and not telling you about it because they are all wondering. Right.

Richard Gibson:

I want them to also be invested in the success.

Justin Shelley:

And then, so that was, that was my second thing I wanted to highlight where you, you bring them around and, and get them involved in the solution, I think is what I mean.

Richard Gibson:

Exactly. Yeah. And I tied their future success into it. And you know, it's just like, because you know, business is a team sport. It is, there are a lot of people that will say that, Oh, I done this. I've done that. There's always someone that's on that team with them because you can't do it by yourself.

Justin Shelley:

And, and I'm, I'm digging in here because, so I work. I think I mentioned that I'm involved in this community of IT consultants, business owners that run it, firms, cyber security, whatever else. And most of it's about marketing, but we're very involved in each other's lives. We know each other's spouses. A lot of times we know what their kids are up to. Like it's a very tight knit community and it's also got a coaching component to it. So, in, in this community of my peers, I get to see very different leadership styles. And, and the reason I'm pointing this out is because I, I watch people who struggle. They might be doing okay financially with their business, but man, they can't find good people. They can't solve problems. They can't this, they can't that. And, when I will bring up say, Hey, go talk to them, get them together, ask them how they'd like to solve.

Justin Shelley:

Because for example, in the tech world, we have to log our time and our notes when we work with a client and it is like herding cats, trying to push a string uphill, whatever you want to, you know, to get them to do it is tough. And so, we're having this conversation and I'm like, sit them down and ask them how they'd like to solve the problem. “Well, it's my business. I'm not going to ask them how to run my business. I'm going to tell them, and they need to do what I say”, you know, that's, that's kind of the mentality.

Richard Gibson:

And then you're missing the opportunity for a perfect solution. Because the people that are in the trenches that are doing it may notice something that you don't, and I'm, I'm one, I'm not a micromanager. I am a macro manager. I am going to stand back I'm hands-off but I'll give someone enough rope to hang themselves. Sure. Yeah. And because I've learned that I don't know it all. And that's a hard thing for most entrepreneurs to it is because we do wear so many hats. I am good at a lot of different things, but I'm not perfect at everything. Right. I can't be

Justin Shelley:

Well, and we can't see everything that's going on. We're not talking to the people in the trenches and getting their feedback. I mean, we could be steering the ship completely the wrong direction and not even know it.

Richard Gibson:

Yeah. Cause they'll notice trends things going on. Well, before we do. You know, by the time it, if you're actually captaining a ship, you know, you're not the one steering, it, you're not the one doing everything. They have to come get you once they notice a problem,

Justin Shelley:

You're assimilating data and making decisions is really what you're doing.

Richard Gibson:

So, and if you're not going to talk to them, that means you have a closed-door policy. That means they're afraid to them to let you know what's going on. Right. So, they're willing to let the Titanic hit the iceberg. When, if they would have said, come up. Yeah. “Hey, you know, if we change our course, one degree, South, everything could be different.”

Justin Shelley:

Here's some data you might not be looking at. So. Okay. Yeah. And I love that. So, you've got this, you're in the middle of what sounds like a life altering crisis, a major issue. You bring your team around, you have employees and then you bring a team of consultants or outsiders who may be, can see things from a perspective that you're not seeing at all.

Richard Gibson:

At all. And, uh, then also reached out, you know, to some competitors that I knew that as a mentoring group, uh, and then relied upon my family, met a community around it. Nice. And you know, it's hard with some of those people, but you've got to what I recommend to start building that community before the emergency comes up. Because sometimes it's hard to have those conversations when your embarrassed.

Justin Shelley

A year nail in it, man, that is.

Richard Gibson:

You've got to get out of your own way. Right. And that was the biggest lesson back then for me was for me to get out of my own way. I could not let my pride, Oh, wait, pride. Come before the fall. Oh wait, I think I read that somewhere. Yeah. And I imagined, so it is, but it is true. It is my pride, my ego, all of that was in the way of me getting help because I was embarrassed. Oh, I may not look good in these people. They see it.

Justin Shelley:

Yeah. But we want to believe they don't some of that's human nature. I think it's worse with us as entrepreneurs. Um, and I, and I think it's probably different with all of us. I grew up in a family of nine children, single parent income. Oh, wow. Um, you know, we were fine. I don't want to make it sound like, cause there are people who deal with poverty. Um, but it, it took an emotional toll on me. Some of the financial struggles, my early life and in business to this day, when you talk about being embarrassed, when financials come up, I shrink like that is easily my weakest point in running a business. And to have to admit it is hard, brutally hard. It's so hard and terrifying and, and crippling. And so, um, you know, that's, that's me, that's my experience. But there are whether it's finances or any number of things, you know, and I'm, I'm referring to people who won't get their team around them. You know, whatever the issue is, we have these blind spots or these places where we won't go, um, pride, ego, trauma, whatever it is. We have these things that, that can be our downfall.

Richard Gibson:

Oh yeah. We know what we know. We know what we don't know, but we don't know what we don't know. What's dangerous and that's, what's dangerous. Cause that is the blind spot. That's what you, and so that's where you've got to find people that love you enough to help me see my own blind spots and be willing to take that information from them. Yeah. And that's hard to develop those relationships.

Justin Shelley:

That's the key. And I'm glad you said that because you can ask, but if you don't have the relationship where they feel safe giving you feedback, then you're screwed.

Richard Gibson:

Yeah, exactly. And that's why I, you really need to develop those relationships before the emergency happens. Yup. You know, and it was like, I'll be one of the first ones to admit back then. I had those relationships that people could, that I would give them in a point out their blind spot. And if someone pointed one out to me and I was like, eh, Pat him on the head, I'll be the first one to admit it. Yeah. You know, and it is a lot of personal growth that I had to go through at that time to get to where I could accept that and say, yeah, they're right. Yeah. It's tough. And it's gotta be cultivated. And it does. And ants in advance.

Justin Shelley:

Good point. So, um, I mean, you talked about finance, you are over leveraged and that's what you meant by overleveraged right. I'm just looking down at some of my notes here. Cause we can, we can be leveraged or under leveraged over leveraged on our, uh, pay, not payroll, but you know, staff inventory of time, whatever you want to call it there.

Richard Gibson:

In this case, I had to March debt for the income that was coming in right. In the short term.

Justin Shelley:

Okay. Okay. So you call your people around you. Uh, that was one thing. And then you also mentioned in here that you negotiated with your creditors and I highlighted that because I've heard that before, but I'll be honest. I've never actually done it. So can you walk us through what that process looked like?

Richard Gibson :

Well, for me, it was literally calling my banker and saying, we need to have a meeting and we made the face let's face down face to face. I am not a phone guy. I am not, emails will not, we got to sit face to face and we have to talk about this situation that what's happening. And it was doing, you know, and it's like, you know, let's come to a solution. Let's, I'm not trying to stiff anyone. I'm not trying to do anything, but we've got to come to work and let's figure out what we can do that works for everybody.

Richard Gibson:

So it took probably five or seven in-person meetings with going over different ideas over a couple of weeks trying to come up with. And some of it was just, I need another 30 day extension, you know, and, and just laying out in front of them, this is what I'm doing. I'm doing this, I'm doing X, Y, Z to try to do this. And so they were like is, and the part that was part of what it was communicating with the creditor that I was trying to do everything in my power to resolve this issue. You know, sometimes you'll get some, that'll play with you. Sometimes you won't, but being transparent again in it and be upfront and communicating. That is what I think gave me the credibility. And then what we were able to do is restructure a new deal finally, and everything, and kind of put me on a probationary status and all this.

Richard Gibson :

And it wasn't quite receivership, but it almost felt like it to me. And, um, so, and went through it, do it. And it's like, but I, I set out what I thought was a very livable and workable plan. And this is what we're going to do. And I hit every benchmark and I sure of it because I was going to do whatever it took to hit those benchmarks. So I could prove to them, I would do what I said. And that's the other thing, because what happens when I catastrophe of business magnitude like this, that happens when you stop communicating with whether it's the creditors, whether it's your employees, that's when you're doing the most ditch to yourself and the business, because you're leaving them to speculate about what's

Justin Shelley:

Going right. And fear starts.

Richard Gibson

And when they're speculating, that means that you're either A ignoring it or B you're trying to get away with it.

Justin Shelley:

True. And I want to point out that when they're speculating, they're usually coming up with worst case scenarios, far worse than what you're ever, probably trying to write. Right.

Richard Gibson:

It's like it's. And so that's why the communication being open and doing, you know, sometimes, like I said, it could be simply, they give you another 30 day extension, right. It could be, uh, they will do an emergency loan and finance it back out and do it 12 months. Another balloon, you know, there are all kinds of different options possibly on what happened, but it was just, you know, like when it happened for me, I knew it was going my original plan. Oh, well just refinance it for another one. We'll do another book, you know? But all of a sudden, in 2000, 2009, all the credit dried up there was nobody willing to do any of that anymore. And so what you, you know, where you're used to, as our government loves to kick the can down the road, all of a sudden I could no longer kick the can down the road. Apparently someone filled it full of concrete, broke my toes.

Justin Shelley:

Well, and I mean, the, the worst possible outcome of these meetings is that you're in the same situation. Exactly. And you burned a couple hours of time. Um, I love that you insisted on the face to face because if, if we look at human behavior connection, the way we operate, one of my biggest grievances about the face mask that we all have to wear is that it is a disconnect emotionally and socially because we've lost social cues, facial expressions,

Richard Gibson:

It, most people are horrible at body language anyway. Right? And then you put the mask on that covers the micro-expressions that are so that we pick up naturally, but we may not always read it. Right. But at least we get it. And then you work with a mask. Yeah.

Justin Shelley

It was where we're damaging relationships. We're damaging emotional connection. And I'm not here to, you know, go on an anti mask rant. But the, the point I want to make is when you say an email's not going to work, a phone call is not going to work. If the mask is doing this to us, which is only covering part of our face, there is just something about sitting across the table with somebody looking them in the eye, that changes how we treat people. You look at road rage. Why in the world do we put our lives and other people's lives at risk based on who's in front. I can't think of another case, another scenario where we'll like, take these three, four, 5,000 pound weapons aimed at people and then just live with complete rage over a who's where who's in the lineup. Right. But we can't see each other. We're not, we're objectifying in that process.

Richard Gibson:

You just reminded me of a comedy skit by George Carlin, which I will not repeat on here. Yeah. That, you know how it's directly disproportionate in ratio to how close they are, the closer they get, the quieter you get about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It is true. It's just, it's human nature.

Justin Shelley:

There is. Yeah, there is just, and again, a phone call is better than an email because now at least we have intonations from the voice and stuff like that. But nothing beats that, that sit down face to face.

Richard Gibson:

I want to be able to look them in the eye. And I went to, and there are actually some business owners that get this. I think it's funny. I, it follows the law. I'm not going to speak the restaurant's name, but they bought these clear plexiglass things for masks. That just go so you can see the waitstaff smile and everything, but it doesn't seal.

Justin Shelley:

Is this place in Bartonville? No. No. Okay. But that's several levels. Another one, then that's doing it.

Richard Gibson:

Yeah. There's several that are now doing it, but that's the other thing. I get a kick out of them hanging the plexiglass everywhere. Right. I was like, what? Now you're a solid, you're a sneeze shield. We're still breathing the same air people, but it's the it's illusion about making you feel safe. Yeah. Yeah. But at least then you can see the facial expressions. True. And so I was like, all right, well, this is better.

Justin Shelley:

Yeah. But it's not that, not the same, not the same, but yeah. I mean that, that human connection, that COVID is killing that a phone call gets in the way of that. An email annihilates, uh, you were able to negotiate this, I believe, but just hearing your story because you went and you had a human connection with somebody.

Richard Gibson:

I think so. And I think it was my determination to, I think it was the openness of what I was going through. I would love to say it was the human connection, you know, that had something to do with it. But I think it was when they, the human connection where they can see the transparency go with it combination because when they looked at my eyes, they could tell that I was sincere, that I was doing everything within my power to come to a solution. Yeah. And I don't think I could, could evade it any other way than in person.

Justin Shelley:

Right, Right. I I'm reminded of a story. So I'm politics completely aside. I, I love to read. I like, so I'm a college dropout. I don't have a degree in business or anything. Um, and so that's a disadvantage and I have to compensate by. I mean, you can see my, my bookcase behind me I've read most of those books, not all of them, but most of them, um, anyways, story to the point, I was a fan of Donald Trump long before he ever got into politics. Okay. Um, and by fan, I just mean I've, I've picked up on some key things that he's done. That sound really smart to me. And one of the stories that just really struck me that he told him one of his books was, uh, you know, because he, again, like everybody, it wasn't a straight line to success for him. He had his down moments, uh, and there was a time where it said that the beggar on the street with a few coins in his can was richer than Donald Trump, because he was in debt and had no money.

Justin Shelley:

So he's, he's at this low point in his life and there's a banquet or something that he's supposed to go to and he doesn't want to go, like, he doesn't want to show his face. He's embarrassed, all this stuff we're talking about. Um, and he has access to a limo, but this, at this banquet are his bankers. And he also can't show up in his limo to talk to his bankers about why he can't pay the bills. Right. I, and I might be messing the story because I read it a long time ago. But so anyways, he, he walks to this thing, it's a few blocks away. It's raining. Like his life just sucks. And, and he, he gets in there and he ends up sitting by, I think it was coincidental that he ends up sitting by his banker and starts having a conversation, maybe similar to what you're talking about.

Justin Shelley:

Yeah. And it was that conversation that saved him because he was, he was looking at complete disaster. Um, and, and I hear again, I'm telling a story that I may not be getting all the details. Right. But it sounds very similar. And what I remember was that the catchphrase, maybe it was a chapter title, was you make your own luck. Yes. If he had stayed home, like he wanted to, if he had hid, if he had let that fear, cripple him, that shame, that guilt, whatever it was, keep him in his house where he was comfortable and dry. Um, whatever he took that step, he was uncomfortable. He sat down by a human, he had a connection, he was, uh, transparent. And, and it got him out of that crisis, you know, in, in some way, shape or form. So, uh, let's see, Richard, we've, uh, we've talked about your, your low, how you got through it. Did we miss anything on your you're coming out of there?

Richard Gibson:

You'd like to talk about, I don't think so. I think that, you know, the biggest thing that helped was the personal growth and developing a team around me that I could communicate with, you know, cause I still talk with some of these guys today, you know, and that's, you know, it says building the team, right. That is the, that's the big takeaway from it and start it now, whether you're in trouble or not. Yeah. Yeah. It it's, you know, like I said, I thought I had deep connections with the team cause I'd always helped and done and I had, you know, bounced ideas off, but it was never until I went through this that I really learned how important they were to me.

Justin Shelley:

Okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Uh, one thing that, I mean, maybe you've kind of already said it, but I've got a highlighted on my notes. And so I want to, I want to hit this real quick. Uh, you said to avoid situations like this is avoid debt. And then I titled the episode intentionally avoiding debt, like the COVID plague. Uh, we haven't talked a lot about that, but my question around this is some debt is responsible, some amount of debt and, and this is a hypothesis, feel free to shoot it down and, and some debt isn't like, what do you have a guideline? Do you have advice for, um, what kind of debt when the take on debt? Is it just completely flat avoid it? Like the plague or what's your take,

Richard Gibson:

I'm almost at the point of avoid it. Like the plague, uh, there's another radio talk show host that says all debt is evil. I'm not quite there for consumer debt in the Nashville area. Yes he does. Okay. Um,

Justin Shelley:

We don't want to plug a show unless he's going to plug our show. Right?

Richard Gibson:

Yeah. And so we won't mention any of that. Now, what I think is some debt in businesses are necessary, unfortunately, and you can't do certain things without debt, if you're trying to grow, right. Like let's use the idea of a building for renting versus owning.

Justin Shelley:

Yep. You're not paying cash for building, probably most people can't right

Richard Gibson:

Now, there were times that maybe you could save the money that, but with the real estate prices that have happened in North Texas, we can't do it. And so that debt may make more sense, excuse me, from a business standpoint. Okay. But now I want a new 86 inch TV to watch X, Y, Z, or the super bowl that makes no sense that you better save the money don't finance. Don't throw that on your 24% credit card. That makes, that is absolutely no. And credit cards for business. You know, if the interest rates are extreme, why do it, you know, there are places now like PayPal credit, I hate to plug down, but you know, you do things. They give you six months interest free. Okay. That may be okay. Yeah. You know why? Because it gives you a lay way to budget out the cash. You may even have the cash, but maybe because of like times now with COVID, I would like to pay it out over six months. Right. So I can manage my X flows, you know, my expenses going out because I don't know my inflows are going to be because of COVID

Justin Shelley:

Well, and because of always, all right. And that's, I think the biggest I'll throw myself under the bus here. I'm an optimist. And so it, a lot of times in my brain, it makes sense to take on debt right now, because I know I'm going to be so much richer. Just give me another week or two, and I'm going to have more money than I have today. And then a year, hell, I'm going to have all the money I need. So it makes sense to take on debt. It'll be so easy to pay it off later. I play those kinds of games in my brain up. I don't like to admit that publicly, but it happens. Um, another thing I want to point out though, is that statistically speaking, uh, people who start businesses with money, meaning whether it's an investor or their own money, but they have a significant amount of money to start a business with statistically are less likely to succeed than people who start out without money.

Richard Gibson:

You ever heard that? Yes, actually. I've heard that, but I've never actually seen the study that proves that same. Okay. And then maybe it doesn't matter.

Richard Gibson:

It doesn't matter. Not the premise is that your creativity starts when you can, when you want to go up. And there's the only way that you could go is either sideways or up.

Justin Shelley:

Well, let me give you the, you know what, I'm going to cut you off right now. And I'm going to give you the case study. You said you've never seen, okay. I got a line of credit. This was several years back. I got a line of credit for $50,000. A bank rep walked in my door, soliciting, Hey, we were, you've been approved for a line of credit. It's a reputable bank. I mean, it's not like it was a scam. I went down to the bank. I talked to him about it, filled out the paperwork, got approved for a line of credit for $50,000. I blew through that line of credit in about eight months. And I bought all the stuff that I knew was going to work out so well stuff I would have never done if it was my own money. Um, none of it worked out. I would not have done the things I did without that line of credit. I would have come up with more creative solutions, more careful solutions or thought out, more thought out. Yeah. So there's your case study?

Richard Gibson:

Yeah. Well, it's just the case study for individuals. When thinking about what you're going to buy and stuff, you know, it's been, there are studies that I have seen that if you pay with plastic, you'll spend 21% more than you would if you pay for cash. Rarely. Why? Because Benjamin hurts when it comes out of the wallet. That's true. Yeah. I know uncle Benjamin. Yep. Okay. Yeah. He wants to stay in my wallet. I like uncle Benjamin in my wallet, but swiping the card is easy. Why put a card? That's nothing. That's just, that's just digits. Well, what is that? And so, yeah, but there are several consumer studies that consumers will spend 21% more when paying with debit or credit cards as they will with cash.

Justin Shelley:

I think I've heard that before. And it actually reminds me of early in my marriage, we did the envelope system for budgeting and it was amazing what we could make happen because we had cash in envelopes. And when the money was gone to buddy's God, we got to do some, like, we can't do that thing anymore. We had an envelope for dining at, you know, eating out. We had an envelope for groceries. We had an envelope for rent and uh, yeah, we, we spent a lot less than, than we do now. I'll tell you that. Yeah.

Richard Gibson

Well living within your means. Yeah. Well, you can run a business just like that also.

Justin Shelley:

Are you familiar with profit first by chance while we're plugging things?

Richard Gibson:

I have heard it, you know, I have a little different mindset.

Justin Shelley:

I like it. Honestly. I'm not, I'm not advocating it, but it's an interesting concept. It's similar to this envelope system for businesses, you know. But it's a mess when you try to do the accounting behind it.

Richard Gibson:

Oh yeah, it is. You know, but it, it boils down to.

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7 Steps to Grow your Company's Revenue Using LinkedIn with Mark McIntosh

Mark is the founder of RevGrow.com, a B2B lead generation and revenue growth firm headquartered in the Dallas-Fort Worth area with regional offices nationwide. Helping businesses grow revenue with proven strategies.

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Visit their website – www.RevGrow.com

Schedule a time to talk with mark on his calendar - www.ScheduleACallWithMark.com

Show Notes

There’s no straight line to success

[3:00] - Tell me something, one of your most significant challenges in your career.

Mark shares a couple of roadblocks that changed the trajectory of his career

  • In 2011 I came to DFW on a business trip, first time ever to Texas. I was doing some calling to DFW and Texas and knew there was something unique. What I didn’t know when I came to Texas on that 3-day business trip, was the second day it came upon me that I needed to uproot the family and move to Texas. Try explaining that to my wife, we had three kids they were all 10 and under.
  • Two months later we made the move to DFW.
  • The biggest challenge, which I realized rather quickly, is how important those 15 years in the Midwest were. My entire network, everyone I knew, knew me, it was all based there.
  • I came to DFW in 2011 without any contacts or connections in any real significance or volume. I was coming into the market from scratch. And that was a big hurdle to overcome.
  • That time period, although it was one of the most challenging, I’ve had, it was also one that I can point to as being foundational to what we’re doing now. Because I developed some systems, process and strategies for leveraging LinkedIn to not only get in front of more prospects out there but to do it in a more scalable way.
  • An example of a very big challenge in my career that has turned into a blessing because it really forced me to rethink and figure out how in the world do I come to a new geography, from complete scratch, turn that into a workable situation from a sales development and marketing situation.

[7:00] - You said you came to DFW, you found the people friendly, then you said you learned you had to move... Was that a lightbulb moment or kind of forced on you by an employer?

  • Mark say, no I wasn’t forced. I made the decision to move on my own. Which made it a more difficult sell on my family.

[9:00] - You said two words “scalable” and “repeatable” those are huge.

  • If you were to give me the formula as simple as possible what would I do on LinkedIn to build up a base that I want to sell into?

[9:40] - Mark gives the formula “7 steps to grow your revenue using LinkedIn”:

  1. Position your personal brand by creating a client-centric profile. Key to step #1 starts with the headline: what you do, who you work with, and most importantly how you help them. That’s your value proposition.
  2. Develop a content strategy. Tip on content is giving your best stuff away free.
  3. Using LinkedIn search and other resources outside of LinkedIn to find your high value prospects who fit your criteria. Start narrow and the sooner you can niche down the better off you’ll be.
  4. Build your data base. Focus Quality Over Quantity
  5. Set up your messaging machine. The key here: Develop messages that are value-add and non-salesy messages. Then, develop a system and process for sending out your messages.
  6. Develop a system in a way to manage all these. We recommend doing it outside of LinkedIn
  7. Continue to nurture those leads so you get the call when the time is right.

[18:15] - Justin is going to try this and put it to the test. I’ll report back in a few weeks on what I’ve done. Hold myself accountable. We’ll be back in touch

[19:00] You’ve given us the formula... final thought on why do I need to do that?

  • The bottom line is we’re all focused on running our business and doing things we love to do and do best. The real value is we do it for our clients so they can focus on what they do best.

Justin says anyone listening to this can hold him accountable to put this formula to the test!

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If you have questions for Tony, he can be reached at 972-409-4311

For IT questions, contact Master Computing at 940-324-9400

Show Notes

[1:50] - Let me Introduce today’s guests.

  • In studio we have Andrea from Master Computing and Tony from Insperity

[2:45] - Tony, you reached out to me on LinkedIn and at the time I was just looking for people to connect with and I kind of asked what you did and what’d you tell me?

  • You told me you help small businesses that want to grow. Help them run better.

[3:50] - Tony’s bullet points of the main ways he helps businesses.

  • Payroll
  • Onboarding
  • Recruiting
  • Compliance
  • Taxes

Whatever it might be for someone who is great at one thing and wants to start a business in that thing and maybe they don’t have too much an idea in the other areas.

When you have questions or concerns or maybe there’s something you’re not comfortable with, that’s when someone like Insperity comes in and help you make sense of some of those issues.

[5:50] - Tony, tell me a little bit about a significant challenge you’ve delt with in your professional career.

  • Tony started with Insperity March 16th of this year (the week most businesses started sending employees home and shutting their doors)
  • I was in the office 2 full days and a half day before COVID lockdown.
  • Significant challenge - he started a new career among the pandemic.
  • In addition to starting a new career in pandemic he is also planning a wedding in October.

[8:14] - What was your Initial reaction when you started your career 2 days prior to the lockdown?

  • Terrified.
  • Deeply concerned for my well being, not from a health standpoint but for a career standpoint.
  • Because, like I mentioned, my intention for this job and being a business performance advisor was to truly be involved in the community. That’s the Insperity mission. I didn’t want to just be a stranger over the phone cold calling businesses.
  • Hard to do that when you can't meet business owners. So, I sat there really concerned, new to any sort of undertaking like this. Before I worked tutoring children in math and running a math learning center.
  • So my focus really was in I need to build relationships however possible. LinkedIn became a huge resource to me.

[13:05] - What do you expect will be the long-term value of having to go through that for your career moving forward?

  • Being seen right now, being here on this podcast with you.
  • Be a resource and provide value for small businesses.
  • Long-term, been fortunate enough to build relationships, meet people, and engage with them in a way that’s more organic and not so sales focused.

[15:00] - Timeout to give Tony a shoutout: If you have any of the issues that Tony takes care – weather it’s HR, Payroll or group health Insurance - give Tony a Phone Number is 972-409-4311

Shift gears - Value we can add for our listeners –

[16:10] - My question is, as you’re going out and meeting with people, whether it’s LinkedIn conversation, zoom meetings, or whatever. What do you see as the #1 fear, concern or problem that your clients or potential clients are dealing with?

  • We have this PPP Loan, it helped a lot, it’d be great if we don’t have to pay it back.
  • What do I need to do to make sure that it’s not the case? What do I need to have prepared? What are the steps I need to have done?
  • There is 5.2 Million outstanding PPP Loans as of last week.
  • This represents about 15-20% of all small businesses in America.
  • And that’s about $520 Million dollars in loans.

[26:20] - As a non-finance professional, if someone were to ask me in a state of panic, what they need to do about this PPP Loan – My advice would be: Take a breath.

  • As Finance professionals, both of you, would you give different advice? No. Take a breath. Relax. If you’ve been documenting everything, you should be good.

[28:07] - Which brings me to my next question. You hear “document everything” all the time, but to my knowledge, when we do things in QuickBooks, run payroll, etc. We are already documenting everything.

Is there anything we need to be doing differently to document this stuff for the Forgiveness process?

  • On the Payroll side, probably not.
  • Where you may need some additional looking into, or more complex reporting is if you had to lay some people off then bring them back how does that affect your full-time equivalency.
  • If you did have any legitimate firings, or workers who refuse to come back to workplace due to COVID. You want to make sure you have that in writing and on record because that’ll apply to the SafeHarbor which affects your full-time equivalency as well.
  • That’s just a lot of words to say they want to make sure that what happened, during the PPP covered period reflects accurately on your reference period.

[29:15] - Dig in a little more. Let's say that a company had a full-time salesperson that they hired prior to the COVID pandemic. And that salesperson didn’t do their job right, then COVID hits, and in that scenario a boss decided to let that salesperson go? It wasn’t about pandemic, it was about lack of performance

  • Tony says this is where recording everything all the time, not just during pandemic, does you a lot of favors.

[31:15] - Justin asks Tony “If you were handling HR for this hypothetical company, is that something Insperity would have gotten involved in?”

  • Absolutely. Part of the great service team you get as an Insperity client, includes an HR specialist.
  • So, they can answer those hard questions, and make sure you have policies in place to not only document those things but make sure what you're documenting applies to your policies.
  • This way, when it comes time to fire someone, it is a legitimate firing. Not just an act of inconvenience due to COVID as some may try to spin it.

[33:45] - One thing I’ve learned a while back is that in the recession, that’s a great time to find good people.

[34:05] - Tony’s words of wisdom for fellow business owners, fellow professionals, people trying to muddle through situation we find ourselves in right now

  • Like you said, in a recession you find good people.
  • It's tough right now for a lot of businesses. Just stay optimistic. Take care of your people.
  • It’s maybe not time to grow, but it is the time to look, there are good people available. Maybe time to reflect on the performance of your employees.
  • With the slow down, there's been more opportunity for businesses to take that look and see where there’s room for improvement. Where maybe they can reduce some things and cut down.
  • Remain open minded at getting better and more efficient, but don’t overexert yourself
  • Some companies may have the opportunity to pivot but those who don’t, think about your solid strategies. What you can do moving forward.
  • Not all businesses are going to have that genius pivot available to them, but you're in business for a reason. Chances are if you made it this far, you’re doing something okay. So, what have you done okay and what is that going to look like moving forward?
  • How do you make sure you have both the workforce and processes available to handle that and move forward in a way that makes sense?
  • I really think that it is the time to invest in your people and culture.
  • Those business owners who do value their people, their employees are going to recognize that in this time.
  • Showing who you are as a business and providing value as well.

[38:10] - Thank you for being a part of this. This was solid, great content. I learned something and I think there’s value in this for everybody that listens.

SHOUT OUT – Guys, if you have a business, you’re involved in a business that wants to grow Tony's your guy! Give him a call: 972-409-4311

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Hello everybody this is Justin Shelley CEO of Master Computing in the Dallas Fort Worth Metro coming to you with episode 2 of DFW Rockstars. This one is personal.

First, we’re going to talk about why I call it DFW Rockstars. This is about overcoming, talking to people who have delt with significant challenges in their lives, have had levels of success, and telling their story. Sharing how it is they overcome and how it is they achieve greatness. That is the theme of DFW Rockstars podcast.

In business we talk a lot about how there is no straight line to success. My guest here today might prove that theory wrong just a little bit. In fact, he is the best example of ‘straight line to success’ so far.

2:10 – Justin shares a powerful background story to start us off. It speaks to why running is so awesome because it’s all about proving to yourself you can do things that you didn’t think you could do. He talks about moments in early childhood that crushed him. And lead to this belief system early on in life, that he couldn’t do things...

4:40 - The turning point to this belief system he had: I decided that I was going to run distance. I got to the point to where I could run a 5K. I instantly started thinking “What’s next?” so I kept running, I completed a 10k, 15k, 20k, and kept thinking “Okay, what’s next?”

Huge goal of Justin’s: I want to qualify for Boston that’s a huge goal. Meaning it is very out of reach right now. I knew this was never going to be an option for me if I couldn’t stop getting injured. So, I grabbed myself a physical therapist. Now that’s where I introduce today’s guest.

8:00 – Justin introduces his physical therapist and guest on this episode. Steve White of Dallas Run Clinic. How I found out about Steve is by googling “Physical Theripist Running Dallas” and Steve was the first one to show up.

Website: https://www.dallasrunclinic.com/

Do you do remote, if people are not in the DFW metro?

  • The PT work I can do anyone in the state of Texas
  • In terms of performance coaching, I can do anyone in the US or world.

How to get in touch with Steve: Email, phone number, form submission.

Contact page: https://www.dallasrunclinic.com/contact

YouTube Channel: dallasrunclinic

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2INt-PDye9-b8_MWFW5Y4Q?view_as=subscriber

Steve talks about the resources on his YouTube Channel. He has all the exercises that he uses for Rehab and performance coaching. Check out these FREE resources!

15:30 – Justin shares how one thing that drives him crazy about Facebook groups and running communities is people are constantly asking for advice for injuries.... Steve, in 30 seconds, why should you NOT go to Facebook or reedit to diagnose injuries?

  • You have to know your source and where this info is coming from. They are just sharing advice on what worked for them.

Justin ran 5 marathons with improperly diagnosed

I ran 5 marathons with an improperly diagnosed injury. I highly recommend going to a SPECIALIST for whatever your sport / activity is.

One of the things that really stood out to me about your business is, #1 is your specialty, you went straight to this specialized version of physical therapy. This is one of the things you did right from day 1.

18:00 – Tell me a little bit about the name of your business, why that matters, how you set this up and where you learned it.

  • Name: Dallas Run Clinic
  • He wanted the name of this business to portray that it was more about PT but very specific. Niche specialty.

19:45 - My point: I googled “Dallas Run Physical Therapy” and you are the 1st one that shows up. Then we’ve got Facebook and more Facebook. The name of the business matters, the fact that you dialed it in to this niche market matters.

20:45 - Let's talk a little bit about business (pretend we are living under normal circumstances) and running a business.

23:55 - Tell me about the single most challenging thing you’ve had to face as a business owner

  • Steve: Personally, being a one-man operation, I think it’s hard not having anyone to turn to and ask advice, questions, and make some of these day-to-day operations. I think sometimes, I guess it’s almost like some kind of endurance race. At the end of the day, you’re in it and you’ve got to get to that finish line or endure whatever is in the way. All kind of by yourself.
  • So I’d say the hardest part of it is being in it alone, but in some ways that has perks as well.

25:55 - I agree, that lonely is a really good way of describing that. So, what have you done to power through or overcome this?

If there’s anyone out there contemplating starting a business, what are some tips you have for them Steve?

30:00 – Steve shares some tips for dialing in your vision, marketing, strategy, stuff like that:

  • On a basic level, stay on brand.
  • Venn diagram your set of individual skills (I.e. physical therapy) blending with something you're passionate about (I.e. running) then find that center of the Venn diagram to focus on. And don’t get distracted by the other things.

34:45 - Justin asks Steve to tell us what an avatar is and describe his avatars by name:

  • An avatar is creating your ideal customer, naming them, detailing all these qualities
  • Steves avatar: Rachel & Conner

Rachel ran competitively then got into the working world and became a consultant and

Conor was an attorney age was low 40s

  • The whole idea is who do I want to work with and who would be a good fit for my brand /my niche. Truly get inside your customer, your target audience.

38:00 - I’ve talked about my own experience early in life, I’ve realized that I have to believe in myself but also recognize my limitations. When I hired you as a coach and PT I was looking forward at a goal. What are the things that are going to prevent me from running the Boston marathon?

41:00 – Parting message to the audience

When I hired you, I was looking to remove these obstacles. I feel like a lot of us live below our skillset potential abilities.

Justin’s advice: set high targets, get serious about what you want out of life, get serious about these, then look at the things that are going to get in the way. That is what I did when I hired you, Steve.

Steve’s Advice: I went in on this business thing alone, looking back I think just having a coach is invaluable. If you want something, go for it. Go make it happen because there is no time like the present. We don’t know what the future holds, so don’t hold back.

Go visit Dallas Run Clinic, contact page, go to YouTube page steal some of that free content.

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I hired Vince Lujan to perform for my son's memorial service. I thought I was hiring a musician. Turns out I added a member to my family. My tribe. If you need a musician, Vince is your guy.

https://www.vlpband.com/

  • Live-stream music for any event
  • Virtual appearances
  • Music video production
  • And, when COVID backs off a bit, live events of all kinds

https://jtaband.com/

  • Religious services
  • Youth ministry
  • Music ministry training
  • Praise and worship music

Show NotesJustin Shelley with Master Computing here on the inaugural episode of DFW Rockstars. In this first episode I interview a local musician, the musician that played at my son’s funeral.

This was a business transaction. I paid him for a service. But what really stood out here is that never did it feel like a business transaction. Instead, I instantly felt like family.

I could not be more excited to introduce today’s guest Vince Lujan [1:40]

He is an incredible musician who (like all of us) had to quickly figure out how to handle the COVID lock-down. It was sink or swim. He decided to swim!

We are going to look behind the scenes at what you do who you are. But my hope is people will spend a few minutes on your websites and get to know you professionally. So, take a minute and visit

[4:10] – Background and further introduction

[4:40] - Justin shares one thing he has learned through the 20+ years of being in business in one way or another.

Justin: One thing I’ve learned is that the quality of your technical work, your product, does not necessarily determine if you are going to be a success or not… It really is, how good are you at running a business?

[5:15] – Justin: Tell me the 3 most important lessons you’ve learned in running a business

Vince: Networking is what you call it, but if you just see it in terms of that and don’t see it as relationship building then you tend to get left behind.

[9:37] – Vince: It all comes down to relationship.

Personnel management – It all comes down to relationship.

How do you take care of the people you work with, so they’ll take care of you?

Learning how to do that and maintain that, moving forward, is a very important thing. Learning how to take care of the people that you work with so that they’ll take care of you, personnel management.

[11:45] – Justin: Your theme is relationships and you truly do practice what you preach.

[13:10] - “Pre-COVID lock down…What did the day in the life of Vince Lujan look like?”

[15:50] - “What were your thoughts, just as the headlines start hitting? PRE lock down.”

Vince shares a story about a guy who is a Guitarist by day and English teacher by night via online.

[19:30] – “At this point, your live business effectively evaporates. What did that do to you emotionally?”

[19:45] – Justin shares his emotional journey throughout all of this going on in the world:

“Coming off the loss of my son, I was in this emotional funk that I cannot even describe. Then COVID hit. So that was kind of my journey. It wiped me out…”

[20:10] – “What was that journey like for you as that realization hits that it’s over as far as the immediate future for your business?”

Vince: I had just done another interview piece and feeling great for myself in terms of being able to survive and thrive. Then this hit. And it felt like my identity was just thrown away.

[21:50] - How do you bring value to clients and people online and online virtual format?

Vince shares his struggle with that.

Justin: Talks about the different journeys but similarities: While I got to continue my business for whatever reason I couldn’t, emotionally.

I felt like I was sinking – great analogy – sink or swim

[25:24] – Justin share a side note story how he watched his father get laid off as a teenager.

*Back to Sink or Swim *

[26:25] – Justin: Talk me through that Vince. You know when we were prepping you mentioned you got to a place where you kind of had to put a deadline on yourself to create an event, advertise it, and see what happens. You were going to try it. Talk about that process:

Shares story

Technology barrier that I needed to overcome. Things I needed to be able to do.

Knowing what you want to have but how can I do this?

How can I achieve the result I’m going for when at the time I didn’t even know how to approximate that you know? – [28:48]

Get online and fail forward

You were going to do it, do or die. You put that date without knowing what was going to happen.

[30:45] - Vince: Going back to that first question you asked me: what are the 3 things you learned? The next is just learning, always learning, how can I learn new ways. I’ve been in this for 20 years, seen the music industry change in a crazy way since I first got into the music industry.

You’ve got to do SOMETHING. Maybe you didn’t know what the right answer way, but you had to do something.

[32:52] – Justin: I’m intrigued by the parallels in our journey here. Because while different, that’s where I was too. I knew I had to do something. I run and IT Consulting firm. I didn’t know what to do but I knew that I couldn’t, emotionally for my own mental health I couldn’t stay home and do nothing, so I started doing a series of webinars.

My challenge quickly became – how do I advertise them?

In just taking the step in doing something, it’s crazy how much your outlook, and skill set will change.

We failed Forward. – Vince’s term

[34:40] – On May 7th. The outcome of going through this nightmarish situation we’ve all been through, what would you say is your accomplishment you are most proud of as a result of COVID 19 and the lock-down?

Vince: The ability to feel like I have value again or feeling that can present value in this environment and I’ve found a way to survive and now thrive in this environment.

[44:55] – Vince shares his greatest accomplishment:

Talking about figuring out how to survive and thrive in this completely different environment and feeling like I am worth it again. I can contribute, continue to operate, provide a service and quality in this completely different environment.

[45:30] – “None of us want to go through a shitstorm. But we always (assuming you’ve put some effort into it) come out stronger, better, more prepared afterwards.”

You are a great example of what many of us have had to do as our whole world gets flipped on its head.

[48:40] – Vince playing a song of choice

First track – VLP Song called “Can’t Deny”

Song background: Must do something, that pivotable point. It happens at various time in our life, maybe over and over again, but when we take a deep look and say you can change YOURSELF your own outlook on whatever it is, we are facing.

This song talks about how you can’t deny yourself because I’ll lose it all so I’m just going to blame the other man.

[50:10] – Can’t Deny - playing

[54:40] – Vince playing another song called Resurrected

This is a song from the JTA Project

[56:00] – Vince: LIVE in studio playing guitar*

[60:30] – Justin: “New life born of death – this could almost be the theme of our podcast today”

We met under rather unfortunate circumstances. But I instantly felt like we were family. You took time to come over and get to know us.

Justin Shares the background on his Kyle's love for music.

Kyle and I both loved music but Kyle loved “angry music”

The Sound of Silence Song

End our session today with the Sound of Silence

The song is about people’s inability to communicate with each other

The power of that meaning inherent in the song and you two struggling to communicate through music

Let’s be like Kyle… And let’s not be comfortable with the sound of silence. He was going to keep on trying to connect and share what he was going through with you through Music.

[66:20] – Vince plays The Sound of Silence song live on guitar

[70:10] – Song ends

Justin: This was a business transaction that has led to what I hope becomes a long-term relationship because you nailed it – life is about relationships.

This podcast is largely about overcoming. As a society this is a unique situation where we have all gone through something traumatic at the same time. And we are all working to overcome and to fail forward as you said…”

To overcome and fail forward

Digging into some of the more unique and personal challenges that we face, if I could sum up life it would be “overcoming”

Go to https://www.vlpband.com/ or https://jtaband.com/ and learn the incredible things Mr. Lujan does in working and providing a service to our community and our society.