Podcast - The 8020 Drummer: Recent Episodes
Nathaniel Smith - drummer, writer, entrepreneur
The first and only podcast devoted to helping you become great at the drums by asking the people who should know - great drummers. And unlike other podcasts, I actually play drums with these guys and record it so you can listen as we talk.
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Cinque “Ignabu” Kemp is someone I’ve been trying to schedule for the podcast for ages.
Beyond his creative approach to the drums, Cinque has a million stories and a unique outlook. And he’s lived multiple lives. As a drummer for people like Macklemore, Flatbush ZOMBiES, Ana Tijoux, Melanie Charles, a producer, and - not making this up - a model. Google him.
But Cinque is also “the guy upstairs” from the days when I used to have a secondary studio on the other side of the labyrinthine complex of studios in my neighborhood in Brooklyn. From time-to-time, I’ve shared walls or floorboards with somebody who made me think “damn, they’re heavy”. I’d hear somebody shredding upstairs, and it turned out it was Cinque.
From time to time we’d bump into one-another on the elevator and say “we should do an interview.” When Cinque finally had time in his busy schedule to swing by 8020 HQ, I had to jump on it.
You’ll enjoy this interview as well if you want to see a less-”produced” side of me. What can I say - Cinque brings it out of me.
In this engaging conversation, Cinque weighs in on flow states, the role of practice in his life these days, his almost mystical appreciation of creativity, how the “non-drum” creative hats he’s worn have informed his approach to drums, tour stories, and more.
Hope you enjoy!
P.S. did you know you can sign up to be the first to hear when we open up new slots for Impossible to Fail, my flagship 1:1 coaching program? Just click here to sign up for the waitlist.
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Cinque “Ignabu” Kemp is someone I’ve been trying to schedule for the podcast for ages.
Beyond his creative approach to the drums, Cinque has a million stories and a unique outlook. And he’s lived multiple lives. As a drummer for people like Macklemore, Flatbush ZOMBiES, Ana Tijoux, Melanie Charles, a producer, and - not making this up - a model. Google him.
But Cinque is also “the guy upstairs” from the days when I used to have a secondary studio on the other side of the labyrinthine complex of studios in my neighborhood in Brooklyn. From time-to-time, I’ve shared walls or floorboards with somebody who made me think “damn, they’re heavy”. I’d hear somebody shredding upstairs, and it turned out it was Cinque.
From time to time we’d bump into one-another on the elevator and say “we should do an interview.” When Cinque finally had time in his busy schedule to swing by 8020 HQ, I had to jump on it.
You’ll enjoy this interview as well if you want to see a less-”produced” side of me. What can I say - Cinque brings it out of me.
In this engaging conversation, Cinque weighs in on flow states, the role of practice in his life these days, his almost mystical appreciation of creativity, how the “non-drum” creative hats he’s worn have informed his approach to drums, tour stories, and more.
Hope you enjoy!
P.S. did you know you can sign up to be the first to hear when we open up new slots for Impossible to Fail, my flagship 1:1 coaching program? Just click here to sign up for the waitlist.
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There are a few drummers who, when they drop new clips, I’m like stop everything.
One is Noah Fuerbringer. Another is this week’s guest for the third-ever in person podcast, Diego Ramirez.
Hailing from Ireland, and veteran of Berklee and Jazz Ahead, Diego is one of the most creative drummers I’m listening to. He’s played with Cartoons, Jonathan Scales, Marc Cary, and Jeremy Pelt. His own group, which recently released an album, is called Estratos.
It’s hard to describe his drumming exactly. It sounds “of the moment”, but also deeply individual - as if he’s pulling from a wider palette of musical choices than many of us.
Because Diego lives here in New York, I had the opportunity to host him in person, in the studio. Which went off almost without a hitch, except that our mics did not like the fan, so the audio, while clear, sounds a little like we’re speaking in the wind. Seated behind the drums, Diego was invited to play if he felt like it, or just chat, and decided he preferred to chat.
Almost from the word “go”, Diego fascinated me with his ethos. “I only practice when I want to practice” he says. I told him later of my “cave” construct, and that he reminded me of guests like Chris Turner - people who seem to fall in love anew with the drums every day.
But Diego’s background is important. Born in Ireland to a family of musicians, Diego was surrounded by music from early childhood. (His dad, he says, was in a semi-famous band in Guatemala in the ‘70s.) Which might explain why his relationship with music in later life - which is to say his teens and 20s - was astonishingly uncomplicated.
Practice, rather than the process of unearthing and machining weaknesses it is for many of us, was like an enchanting journey of discovery for Diego. He describes hearing Tony Williams on Nefertiti, and becoming obsessed with duplicating his sound.
Sound is a filter through which Diego views a lot of drumming, including improvisation. He doesn’t think in shapes or idioms, he says. Only in terms of creating the sound he hears in his head.
The results of that approach are evident. He has a style unencumbered by comparison to other drummers, that shows influence, but is almost impervious to trends.
I hope you’ll enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
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When Gordy Knudtson was gigging in the late 70s, he was using almost exclusively traditional grip, and suffered an injury he says caused doctors to doubt he’d be able to continue playing.
Desperate to “work around” his tension, Gordy switched to matched and did one of the great deep-dives on hand technique. You could say he “John Dahaner’ed” drumstick mechanics, but it’s more accurate to say John “Gordy’d” jiujitsu.
One of the points I bring up with Gordy is that just as before and after Danaher, plenty of practitioners embodied solid mechanics, if you watch the hands of any of myriad great drummers, from Joe Morello to Philly Joe, to Tony Williams, to maybe Tony’s most famous fan, Vinnie Colaiuta, to modern technicians like Dana Hawkins, it’s clear there’s no shortage of drummers putting mechanical principles into practice.
But it’s probably also true that Gordy has extended the understanding of what’s actually happening when these greats play more than anyone at least since Murray Spivack, and, just like Danaher, made it more efficient for beginners to learn.
As you’ll see, Gordy also gives me something of a “free lesson”, showing how I could extend on my technique. Video of my thoughts and experiments on this in the pipeline for sure. There’s been much chat around this on calls with my coaching students.
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I had a suspicion Benny Greb would be an interesting and thought-provoking conversation partner, and I wasn’t wrong.
I was interested to compare notes with the master-clinician on a number of things that have been top-of-mind, like nature/nurture, the paradox of the subjectivity of - but requirement for skill in - art, gap-click, and overrated drum advice.
Benny surprised me at turns, and confirmed my suspicions at others.
One of his most-interesting insights, in my opinion, was that he wants to be an entertainer/craftsperson, not just an “artist”.
We also managed to touch on Pablo Picaso, Neitzsche, Vinnie’s Attack of The 20lb Pizza (it’s 20 pounds, I know - I misspoke and under-weighted the pizza during the interview), and why Benny maybe disagrees with me on independence as a concept.
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TaRon Lockett, who was Prince’ last drummer, who cut his teeth with Erykah Badu, and who was a key member of a scene that spawned Robert “Sput” Searight, Cleon Edwards and Mike Mitchell among others…
…showed up to our interview in character as his own life coach.
And from that point I knew this wasn’t going to be an “average” podcast episode.
It’s perfectly in-keeping with TaRon’s entire approach to music and creativity, though. There’s the dedication to “the bit”, evidenced by TaRon’s philosophy to dedicate himself 100% to assuming the character necessary to perform at his best for any gig he’s agreed to.
There’s the fearlessness that helped TaRon “not look back” when he left a college degree program to pursue music full-time after getting some high-profile gigs.
There’s the respect for age-old wisdom and the hard-won lessons of playing in church and learning by “respectful hard knocks”, and the dead seriousness of one’s dedication to their art.
Then there’s the duality itself, between irreverence, rebelliousness, and independence on one hand, and respect for the tradition and the aforementioned willingness to conform to perform his best on the gig.
In any case, if you’re patient, there are lessons, both humorous and serious to be gleaned both from TaRon-as-his-life-coach, and Taron-as-himself.
I hope you enjoy this fascinating the surprising conversation with one of the most underrated drummers around.
(And if you want to check out TaRon more, I recommend his instagram, starting with this clip.)
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Today we have an interview I’m very excited about.
One of the forefathers of jazz drum instruction - though as you’ll hear he doesn’t like the taxonomy, preferring to say he’s an “improvisation teacher”.
The biggest surprise for me upon speaking to Ed is that he’s an iconoclast. His energy is pure punk-rock, and he has no time for the idea of “handedness” on the drums, nor the “walling off” of jazz from other forms of improvisation.
Ed and I chat about hierarchies in music, how Denton, TX became a music powerhouse away from either of the coasts, teaching psychology, the value of honesty in music, and more.
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Quincy Davis might be the best jazz drum educator on YouTube.
And like Stanton Moore, Quincy is not an “online native”. He studied with the great Billy Hart. He’s got many playing credits, among them Tom Harrell and Benny Green. (But that’s just scratching the surface.) He’s on the official faculty of the fabled University of North Texas.
But he also adapted to the online world in a way that makes him unique. His YouTube channel is a mix of straightforward jazz lessons, subtle innovations, and authentic, no-frills teaching.
Quincy and I were contemporaries in New York in the early 2000s. I used to hear him at Cleopatra’s Needle, and watched as his name started popping up on albums and tours.
I was curious to learn what equipped him to “hit the ground running” in New York. But we quickly went down a rabbit-hole about finding one’s own voice while staying true to the tradition, dealing with imposter syndrome, and re-discovering your love for the music. (This conversation was one of the big inspirations for my latest video.)
I know you’ll enjoy this conversation with Quincy, who’s wise-beyond-his years, and who embodies in every aspect of his being the musical maturity he found.
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Today’s podcast guest first caught my attention with his clean, slamming Instagram clips. Picture closing your eyes and hearing a mix of Clyde Stubblefield, Bonham, and Nate Smith, then opening them and seeing a skinny teenager with a big mop of black hair and an infectious smile, and thinking “this guy is playing this”?
To the degree we use the word “prodigy”, Raghav Mehrotra is that. Someone who exhibits a degree of artistic maturity we usually don’t expect until many years later, even though he’s barely in college. (Studying economics at Harvard, btw.)
Raghav played drums and contributed vocals in the Broadway musical School of Rock at age 15.
He’s sat in with Seth Meyers’ Late Night band several times.
And now he’s behind the drum chair for Jordan Rakei’s latest album, The Loop.
Naturally, I was curious about how he developed such maturity at such a young age. In this conversation we touch early teachers, practice routines, figuring out Instagram, what it’s like to sit in with the Late Night Band, advice he’d give to up-and-coming drummers, and more.
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If you’ve watched more than zero of my videos, you’ll know that there’s a kick drum technique that I endorse pretty unequivocally - simple heel up.
Sure, it takes some dialing-in, but my general feeling is it’s the most versatile/least “distance-sensitive” technique for avoiding tension at multiple speeds and dynamic ranges.
But what if I was wrong.
Today’s interview subject has the opposite take: whereas I switched to “heel up” after several frustrating years trying to coax more volume, power, and speed out of my legacy “heel down” technique, he switched to heel down, when he found heel-up made soft dynamics and playing off the head more difficult.
I’m speaking of YouTube OG Tim Metz.
In our extended interview, which you can view below, we get into his background co-teaching with Mike Johnston in Sacramento, gig scenes in general, his approach to teaching, and the like, but for purposes of the YouTube video, we went head-to-head to debate the merits of the two techniques.
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If you haven’t heard of Arch Echo’s Richie Martinez, get ready for a rabbit hole.
(Richie’s Instagram)
Richie is one of the most electrifying young drummers around.
While he calls the genre of his band “progressive metal”, his playing encompasses a type of "cross-genre” fluency not many drummers have, but it’s exiting when you see it.
Equally comfortable in funk, fusion, or prog settings, Martinez brings energy, enthusiasm, and blistering chops to anything he plays.
Martinez’ background is an unconventional one - growing up in Houston, he was mostly self-taught until high school. That gave Richie a unique perspective on teaching and learning drums. What’s more, he’s made playing “hard” a science, and coaches many-a-touring-drummer on how to play forcefully without injuring themselves or burning out.
And while Richie responded to the question “is there a reason to play forcefully when you can just let the mics do the work” with “yea - do you want to be a LOSER?” He equally obsessed with the mechanics of the low end of the dynamic range, and frequently asks students to play softly on table tops. And while he’s a jokester, he shows an unironic love for the instrument and his students.
If you’ve ever wondered about the mechanics of playing drums hard without injury, why some of the “conventional advice” doesn’t always work, or just what a super disciplined player is like to spend time with, I know you’ll love this conversation with Riche.
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Want to play drums injury-free into your 70s and beyond?
I sure do.
Today’s video guest, Brandon Green, was coaching elite athletes when a high school friend’s struggle with injury inspired him to utilize his skills to help drummers. Since then, Brandon founded the Drum Mechanics YouTube and Instagram channels, where he breaks down the setup and movement of some of your favorite drummers, and gives tons of free advice to help all drummers improve our setup and movement.
I wasn’t an uninterested party. Since becoming a “tall guy” I’ve always struggled with “Ichabod Crane Posture”, and over the past couple of years I’ve been experimenting with setup mental cues, and exercises to help me move better.
Brandon weighs in on the posture conundrum from both philosophical and practical angles.
Then I ask him to help resolve something I’ve always had confusion about: rack tom angle. And the answer surprised me. (But I’m making a change.)
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Andy Prado is a drummer’s drummer.
Talk to practically anyone you’ve heard of about who their favorite drummers are, and Andy is likely to be in that sentence.
He’s one of a small list of drummers you could call “elite choppers” - a list that includes people like Ron Bruner, Mike Mitchell, and not too many others.
As such he’s in both an enviable, and an unenviable position. And you better believe we dig into the multi-edged sword of “chops”. (It’s way harder than you think to get them, you don’t have anything to “hide behind” like groove drummers, and when you reach the top of your profession everybody either wants to be you, hates you, or both.)
Andy touches a bit on the unhuman work ethic necessary to reach the level he’s reached. We also get into:
- Huey Lewis and The News - based or cringe
- Andy’s weekly routine and current projects
- The importance of being authentic
- Whether drummers’ outward personalities match their music
- How Andy is also an elite groove player
- and much more
I know you’ll enjoy this light-hearted convo with one of the LA OGs, the GOAT, as Forrest Rice calls him.
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Whether or not you’ve heard the name Arthur Hnatek, you’ve probably heard the drummer.
If you love Tigran Hamasyan, by definition you love Arthur Hnatek.
Since the Mockroot album, Arthur has been creating unique drum parts for Tigran, and weaving himself deeply into the fabric of the band, and the albums.
As my interests currently sit at the intersection of jazz and prog rock, I was extremely interested in who Arthur’s influences were, and how he’s developed his voice.
We start out having the usual conversation about developing a music voice, but quickly segue into “musical family trees” - i.e. is Keith Carlock the “grandfather”, and Mark G and Nate wood the “fathers” - something I’m gratified that Arthur likewise found fun.
Maybe most fascinating, Arthur didn’t ever consciously play prog rock, but rather absorbed it via osmisis.
Insights like, and something surprising about Tigran’s input into drum parts, abound in this interview. Know you’ll enjoy.
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When I was first getting started on YouTube, there were only a few drummers doing the same thing. One, of course was podcast guest Mike Johnston. Another was Brandon Scott.
Brandon brought great playing, low-key humor, and humility to his videos, and immediately captured attention.
Over the years, as my production quality stagnated, Brandon kept leveling his up, becoming a student of great filmmaking in general, and youtube videography in particular. Recently his video chops caught the attention of Drumeo, who hired him to make a few one-off video ads. That gig turned into a full-time position as a Drumeo videographer, as part of which Brandon regularly commutes to Vancouver and shoots spots for artists like El Estepario Siberiano.
I knew I wanted to get Brandon on a call to help me with my video production, and he graciously agreed. We also rap about Brandon’s drum journey, and how/why he low-key sounds so good. (I say “low key” because his playing is never the focus of his videos; he just sounds great.)
If you have any interest in YouTube or video production, this episode is for you!
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One of my proudest “hipster” achievements was being an early adopter on Ari Hoenig. Long story short, I arrived in New York 3 months before the start of my first school year in grad school, and spent the summer checking out live music with other students who’d stayed around the for summer.
One of those things we checked out was Ari. And as such, I was able to share the discovery with my classmates when they arrived in the fall.
Who was this guy who looked like he was outrunning demons when he played, who had a crispness and simplicity to his playing, and yet who was pushing the boundaries on so many things. For those in the know, Ari was already making waves with Kenny Werner by the time I caught him with the Jean Michel Pilc trio.
But as more and more jazz students cottoned to him, he quickly became the unofficial mayor of what I’d call New York Village Jazz. (As distinct from uptown and downtown jazz.) And his own groups birthed at least a few stellar careers, among them that of Gilad Hekselman.
It had been years since Ari and I had spoken - I’d “fanboyed” to him a number of times after gigs - so it was great to revisit one of the most influential drummers when I was in school and the years afterward.
In this interview, Ari and I speak about the origins of his unorthodox style, forging a path as an individual artist, how to deal with the critical voice and self-doubt while developing as an artist, his approach to practicing improvisation and more.
I guarantee you’ll enjoy this one.
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I just learned that being a “youtuber” is the number one career goal of elementary school children. If I could give them one tip it’s “study accounting unless you’re ready for a lot of hustle and at least a few sleepless nights.”
But one of the things that makes my “job” worth it is when I get to embark on learning a genre that’s not familiar to me as a science experiment, and when I get to speak directly to one of the leading artists of the genre for advice.
Such was the situation when Periphery’s Matt Halpern, one of the most storied prog rock drummers of the past decade, agreed to donate some of his time to sit down and answer my questions. Matt joined Periphery in 2010, and since then it’s been a fairytale whirlwind of records and tours.
Despite his busy tour schedule, Matt takes extra time to conduct group masterclasses in tour locations as often as he can, and is extremely passionate about teaching.
It was this combo of “cutting edge practitioner” and skilled communicator I couldn’t pass up, so that’s why I asked Matt to teach me - in at least a limited capacity. Part of the pretext for the interview was for Matt to listen to a recording I did of Periphery’s most recent - and most challenging - songs, and give me feedback and advice.
And he did not disappoint.
From practice psychology, to approaching songs, to body mechanics, to ice baths, he was comprehensive. And I tried to incorporate as much as I could into my final performance of the song.
But we also spoke about Matt’s unique approach to playing…well…”mathy” music, in a way that’s human and soulful, and evocative of a previous generation of drummers like Bonham. Then we spoke about teaching in general, and the healing power of jiujitsu.
I know prog rock isn’t at the top of the playlist for a big portion of my audience, but I highly encourage you to check out this interview even if Periphery isn’t your cup of tea, because Matt’s insights extend beyond any genre.
Know you’ll enjoy this one!
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In this interview you’ll catch a lot of references.
That’s because Clarence was one of the most influential drummers on the early-2000s “jazz renaissance” that happened in New York, and on me.
No matter who the artist was that was drawing out New York jazz students on a Tuesday night, you can bet the drummer was Blade, Ari Hoenig, Dan Weiss, or Clarence. (And later Eric Harland and Marcus.)
And if you look up the personnel from practically any of the most influential bands of the era, you’ll see Clarence in the drum seat.
Two of my favorite examples:
Strange Liberation, which I mention in the interview (“slow down” part is at 6:52)
The Visitor (live version), which contains one of my favorite Clarence solos. (Solo begins at 5:20)
From these examples you’ll get an idea of the “tension” I mention in the interview between tighness/snappiness and looseness/irreverence, and you’ll hear Clarence’s “punk rock mixed with deep love for the tradition” style.
It took a couple of months before Clarence had a spare moment in his busy schedule, which includes commuting from Florida, where he lives with his family, to LA, where he’s on the faculty of USC, but it was worth the wait.
In this conversation, we speak a lot about teaching and learning, a subject of current fascination, given that I’m coaching a small group of 1:1 jazz students. I get Clarence’ philosophy on teaching improvisation, and the limitations of written material.
We also speak about “safe spaces” (not in the politically charged way), and the tension between helping students by holding them accountable, but wanting lessons to be an “oasis” in their week instead of inducing stress.
And of course I can’t waste the opportunity to ask Clarence about what it was like being part of a jazz renaissance, and how he feels that’s different from the current climate…
…not to mention the boundaries of the word “jazz”, and why people who were in the New York scene in the early 2000s define that word differently than “kids these days”.
If you can’t tell from my writing, this was one of my favorite interviews so far, and I know you’ll enjoy it too. If you dig the interview, please follow Clarence on instagram and give him a shout.
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In 2016, I had no business being welcomed into the West Coast drum family with open arms. I had a tiny YouTube channel, and didn’t even play all that well.
But that didn’t stop Forrest Rice from inviting me over to shed, and letting me hang with him and friends at that year’s NAMM convention.
Forrest first came to prominence after playing in grand finals for the Guitar Center Drumoff, may it rest in peace, in 2014. He’s played drums for Covet and Wolfy, and currently plays with saxophonist Ian Roller. But most importantly, he’s a deep thinker about the drums and music in general.
In this conversation I ask Forrest about why he told me to learn the Tony Williams ride cymbal technique in 2016, the differences between jazz and math-rock, east-coast versus west-coast drum styles, “with the grain” versus “against the grain” practice, and more.
And he also tells a ten-minute story with a “behind the scenes” look at the Drum-Off, then joins me in a round of ridiculous speculation about how one might resurrect the Drum-Off, without many of the downsides.
I know you’ll enjoy this one.
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Greg and I have had a few conversations over the years. I took a lesson from him way back in the early 20-teens. We spoke most recently this past February, when internet connectivity unfortunately interfered.
But Greg graciously agreed to come back for another chat, and this time the quality came out great.
If you know Hutch at all, you know him as the outspoken, funny, larger-than-life presence he is, and look no further than his instagram to see him weighing in and not holding back on…well pretty much whatever crosses his mind.
And if you’re an OG fan, you probably remember that he was one of a small group of musicians who - practically on their own - rekindled acoustic/”straight ahead” jazz, after it had been “left for dead” after 2 decades of fusion. The Marsalis brothers and Jeff “Tain” Watts arguably started the trend, but it grew to encompass artists like Josh Redman, Brad Mehldau, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Mark Turner, and drummers like Brian Blade and Greg.
If you listen to Greg’s playing on any early-2000s recording, it sounds fresh and retro at the same time. One of a number of “new benchmarks” for drummers learning the art, who wanted avatars of contemporary players interpreting the past greats. Drummers like me.
The punchline is that though Hutch can be fiery and iconoclastic in his opinions, at his core he’s a very warm and generous human, and it doesn’t take much conversation to uncover how much he cares about mentoring the next generation of musicians.
I know you’ll enjoy this multifaceted chat with the one and only Hutch.
And if you haven’t caught this week’s youtube video, about how I put together, sold out, played, and broke even on a drum clinic tour, you can catch that below.
Enjoy!
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I’ve been meaning to catch up with JP Bouvet since I first saw his clinic videos around 2015. At the time I was gearing up to do my own first clinics, and I had no idea what to do or say.
JP had been on my radar, of course, since the Guitar Center Drumoff, and the Berklee Chops video.
But recently, he’s been putting out some really thoughtful content about improvising on the drums. Of course that caught my attention, because it’s something I’m super focussed on as well.
And, as you’ll hear, he and I arrived at a lot of the same conclusions after examining the landscape of drum instruction. In the years since the Drumoff, JP has thought more deeply about how to play interesting things on the drums, what’s going on in his own head as he improvises, and how to communicate that to students, than practically anybody else I’ve spoken to.
JP and I also get into bandleading, learning songs quickly, and whether or not you should sing what you want to play - a bit of seeming disagreement. (But was it really? ;)
Hope you enjoy this conversation with JP.
And if you haven’t caught my full clinic from West Coast Drum Shop, you can watch that below.
Enjoy!
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This week was a rare opportunity to dish. I fielded questions about Dilla Beats, life satisfaction, how to play fast in pocket and jazz contexts, how long it takes to get good at something, and more.
I even discuss online enemies, and why even though allowing negative people to live “rent free in your brain” is bad, so-called “haters” can fuel you. (Hmmm come to think of it, not exactly a hot take, laugh emoji.)
The response from my list to this inaugural Q&A was great. You guys came through with the questions. Based on that, I’ll likely do more of these in the future - maybe one every few months.
But if you’re tired of listening to me drone, fear not: we’ll be back next week with a J.P. Bouvet interview I recorded yesterday. J.P. did not hold back, and I know you’ll love this convo.
And if you haven’t caught my weekly youtube video, about trying to make the world’s weirdest hi hat combo, that’s below.
Enjoy!
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While Zack Graybeal, aka ZackGrooves, isn’t necessarily an avatar for the average drummer - he seems to have exceptional drum skills, comedy and filmmaking skills, hustle, and timing - he is a great example of what’s possible for an independent drummer in 2023.
The fact that noone’s asking him to teach seminar classes at the nation’s music schools leaves me puzzled.
But all-the-more opportunity for people like me to feature him on our outlets.
Zack was playing gigs right up until 2020, not thinking much about YouTube or social media. Then what happened…happened…and Zack picked up a camera, channeled his sense of humor and love of prank shows and the Nelk Brothers, and started making content.
If you’re paying attention, you know the rest. He wasted no time becoming the most meteoric drum YouTuber besides Drumeo. And he didn’t stop there. Zack secured sponsor deals from Meinl and Dixon Drums, did clinic tours of Europe and Asia, and headlined the Meinl Drum Festival and UK Drum Show.
And he didn’t stop there. He started a band. Everything Yes. And started touring the world, opening for acts like Sungazer.
Obviously, getting the chance to speak to Zack was an opportunity to get his perspective on all this success. But we also talked favorite jazz drummers, his writing process for Everything Yes, and my own struggles learning one of their songs.
And if you haven’t caught my weekly youtube video, about that very challenge, check it out below.
Enjoy!
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Increasingly, I want to use the podcast to introduce you to players you may not have heard of, but who deserve wider recognition.
Whatever the drum analogy is for jiujistu’s fabled Danaher Death Squad - a crew of upstarts who came seeming out of nowhere and started dominating in competition - Joel is part of that “crew” or “cadre”, many of whom I want to feature on the podcast soon.
What happens in 2023 if you have world-class/guitar-center-drumoff-winning ability, but you haven’t “hit big” yet. Every drummer had to come from somewhere. Before he was headlining stadiums with Steely Dan, Keith Carlock was a local favorite at the 55 Bar. Before he was on every gen-z jazz drummer’s influence list, Ari Hoenig was quietly turning heads with players like Kenny Werner and Jean-Michel Pilc.
And Joel isn’t just a chopper.
Like many guests, he’s reinventing the idiom, little by little. Committing to a musical direction rather than trying to do what “everyone else” is doing.
Joel’s also proven his character in the world of social media, where clout-chasing, pile-ons, and “the next thing” are magnetic, by doing what he wants in public, and sticking up for other drummers in public when few others will.
Those are among the reasons I want to introduce you to one of my favorite young drummers. Some of you will doubtless have heard of Joel, but if you haven’t, I urge you to check him out by searching his name on the Google machine.
And if you haven’t caught my weekly youtube video, about my 5 favorite tom sweeps, you can watch that below.
And here’s the free download that goes with that lesson.
Enjoy!
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The last lengthy conversation I had with John Riley before this interview was probably when I was still a college student. That’s why it was super rewarding to catch up with one of drum teaching’s deepest thinkers, and pick his brain about a great many things I’ve experienced and thought about in the intervening years.
John and I begin by discussing nature-vs-nurture, when I ask him about a passage in his first book. That kicks off a thread about John’s own musical journey, whether he ever thought twice about drumming, and what really happened during what I’ve come to think of his “magical summer”, between his freshman and sophomore years at UNT, after which he won a seat in the prestigious One O’Clock Lab Band, and a teaching position at the end of the year.
John also holds forth on the importance of curiosity to guide practice, and why at a certain level of experience, it can be good to practice abstractions even if they don’t directly affect your day-to-day playing.
Finally we speak about how students have changed in the 20 years since I was his student (I feel ancient writing that), and how his approach to teaching has changed. (Of course I can’t avoid bringing up Whiplash.)
Like many of my guests, John was extremely generous with his time, and didn’t hold back on his thoughts. I’m sure you’ll enjoy this conversation.
And if you haven’t caught my weekly youtube video, about a “drum battle” with the talented Dom Palombi, you can watch that below.
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It’s been a few years since I’ve spoken to Dan Weiss, who I’ve known since we were both in the vicinity of our music school in the early 2000s. Dan was, on various occasions, a teacher - such as when he’d sub for John Riley, or when I sought him out for a the odd lesson later on.
But mostly Dan was the hard-to-categorize drummer who was blowing everybody’s mind. First on early gigs with people like Tigran Hamasyan, then later with Dave Binney at the 55 Bar, and throughout with people like Thomas Morgan, Miles Okazaki, and Jacob Sachs.
Since then, Dan’s gotten a lot of well-deserved recognition, and influenced a generation of drummers.
When Dan and I (digitally) sat down, I wanted to reach back to some of my first recollections of hearing him play, and also dig into how he became what he is.
Hope you enjoy this conversation - there are a lot of nuggets.
And if you haven’t caught my video on the 5 weirdest drum setup trends of 2023, that’s below.
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When I got Stanton on the line, I was expecting we’d talk all about his core passion and expertise - New Orleans music. And we did get there.
But it turns out Stanton is also fascinated with the world of online drumming and content creation. I hadn’t realized this, but he’s taken the transition to the “influencer economy” very seriously, and even assembled a production team that helps him produce high quality courses and constant YouTube content.
As such we “nerded out” about content creation for a good 25 minutes. If you came to hear Stanton talk Johnny V and Tipitina’s, you can skip over the “online” stuff, but there are gems in there.
Eventually we do get to New Orleans music, and Stanton gives a masterclass in how rhythms that sound like clave ended up in a riff his organist Robert Walter played for him in 2010 - hint: because there is clave in New Orleans music.
And of course Stanton responds to my playing on his most famous tune, Pie Eyed Manc. If you’d like to see the entire video of my journey to learn that, that’s below.
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Anyone who came up listening to drum youtube in the 20-teens is familiar with Dana Hawkins. His collabs with Evan Marien started appearing in 2010. Every few months, there would be a new one, and it was pure drum-fusion crack.
I actually met Dana in person before I discovered those videos, however. He was playing with two of my friends on a live gig on the Lower East Side.
In any event, I had zero idea how this conversation would go, because I’ve never before spoke to Dana at length. I’m happy to say it went to territory I never anticipated. Dana’s takes on things like the word “jazz”, the music industry, and “kids these days” are deep, surprising, funny, and at-time firey.
I’m going to have Dana’s thoughts and this conversation on the brain for some time to come, and I hope you do too.
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I’ve followed Steve Lyman’s journey for at least a decade.
He was a promising young jazz drummer, playing with people like Nir Felder, and appearing several times on Drumeo to talk about jazz drumming.
After a stint teaching college in Utah, Steve is back in New York, and if you haven’t checked him out in a few years, it’s…different. From a promising jazz drummer, Steve’s developed into one of those rare players who also completely changes the idiom.
He calls his new language The Vector System, and if you’re familiar with Ari Hoenig, Dan Weiss, Mark Guiliana, and Marcus Gilmore (all of whom Steve says are huge influences), you’ll recognize elements. But The Vector System is its own new language.
I wanted to speak to Steve about the process of developing your own language, and the courage it takes to be radically individual - as indeed many of the guests on this pod are.
In the process we touch on creativity and inspiration writ-large, teaching, learning and more.
I really enjoyed this conversation with Steve, and hope you do too.
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Nate Wood might be the ultimate “drummer’s drummer” of the current age.
Speak to practically any drummer who cut their teeth in the 20-teens, no matter what their genre, and it’s a fair bet you’ll find a Nate Wood fan.
Many innovators end up sounding “mainstream” by virtue of everybody imitating them, but if you can your mind back to 2006, those of us listening to illegal Kneebody bootlegs smuggled at great personal peril on VHS tapes, were like “whaaaaaat’s up with this drummer.”
The sound. The textures. The risks. The aggression. The whimsy.
Fast forward, and now a there are a lot of imitators.
I first sat down with Nate in 2016, and we only had 20 minutes for that convo, so I was excited to “run it back” - this time for a much longer and wider-ranging conversation.
Nate talks about:
How fatherhood affects creativity
How he prioritizes his time in his life, and in the shed
When he realized Kneebody was becoming “a thing”
Whether the internet is a net positive or net negative for drummers today
What I’ve been calling “radical creativity”, an approach of complete trust of your musical instincts in the moment
…and more…
He also critiques my performance of a Kneebody song called Greenblatt, from their record The Line.
If you haven’t seen the video about that process, it’s below.
Listen, Subscribe, and review on apple podcasts Mike Johnston is the godfather of online drum lessons. Back in the early 20-teens, when I was starting the channel, practically everything was Mike’s Lessons.
Fast-forward 10 years, and Mike’s figured out a niche that sees him teaching drum camps, doing clinic tours, working with sponsors to develop new products, and making only the content he wants to make.
In this wide-ranging interview, Mike shares about what’s changed in the drum ecosystem since we were both in college, his favorite gear, and what he’d tell a brand new creator about the bare minimum to get them started. He also dishes about whether there’s room for every drummer to be a personal brand.
I’ve enjoyed speaking to all my guests on the podcast so far, and MJ is no exception.
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Show Notes
Sony FX3 (15:00) - https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/cinema-line-cameras/all-cinema-line-cameras/p/ilmefx3
Red Camera (15:00) - https://www.red.com/
color rating index (15:00) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
Amran lights - https://shop.aputure.com/collections/amaran
C Stands - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-stand
Filmic Pro app - https://www.filmicpro.com/
Hope you enjoy,
N
Listen, Subscribe, and review on apple podcasts Last week I sat down with one of my drum heroes, on Mr. Richard Spaven, for the inaugural episode of the 8020 Drummer Podcast.
(Well, the inaugural episode of the “comeback”. There are some old episodes from 2015.)
Because you’re on my list, I’m giving you access to the interview a day before I publish it on YouTube.
Jharis Yokley generously donated some of his time to enlighten me about how his practice routines have changed over the years, the true difference between “MCing” your own performance and a self-critical voice, whether they should being back the Guitar Center Drumoff, what excites him about young players, and more.
Hope you enjoy,
N
Listen, Subscribe, and review on apple podcasts Last week I sat down with one of my drum heroes, on Mr. Richard Spaven, for the inaugural episode of the 8020 Drummer Podcast.
(Well, the inaugural episode of the “comeback”. There are some old episodes from 2015.)
Because you’re on my list, I’m giving you access to the interview a day before I publish it on YouTube.
Richard and I discuss…
- The origins of several of his songs, and his songwriting process in general
- The ephemeral nature of flow-states, and how to achieve them (hint: there’s no magic bullet)
- “Kids these days”, and whether social media has been a net benefit or a net harm for drumming
- The importance of studying jazz, and why we both like “full takes”
- and more…
If you haven’t yet seen the video of me submitting to Richard’s critique playing one of his most famous songs, check that out below.
Hope you enjoy,
N
If you haven't heard of Ken Salters yet, you probably will before too long. Ken was one of the first people I asked for an interview, before I'd even shot a single episode of the podcast, because he's exactly the type of drummer I wanted to feature. Young, hungry, playing with a lot of people, and right on the "cusp" of being on the tip of everybody's tongue.
Oh yea, and not defining himself as strictly a "jazz drummer", nor by any other genre label. As you'll see in the footage, Ken's style is eclectic and exploratory, but forceful.
As with the other interviews, I ask a lot of questions, but they're all circling the same two Big Questions -
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How did you get so good?
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Will you be my friend?
I'm happy Ken indulged me the opportunity to go a little deeper - a lot of people have done the same things, but they're not as good as you. Why? That got us into some juicy stuff.
- Early influences, both conventional and "taboo".
- Ken's "secret weapon", and the philosophizing teacher who helped him to understand music more deeply.
- The value of "talent" for success.
- Ken's mindset fundamentals, including his morning routine. (Thanks Dr. Ferriss.)
There's one thing you won't see any of in this interview - me. A tripod mishap made a second camera impractical, and I wanted to record our candid conversation instead of setting up a staged tableau, so all you'll hear is my voice. Perhaps we'll do a Stage Two, in which Ken schools me in duo drums.
Hope you guys enjoy this one. If you're new to the site, just scroll down to see all the interviews I've done this year!
What can I say? Nate Wood is one of the people who inspired me to start the 80/20 Drummer channel, and he's just honored me with an appearance on the podcast.
Nate approaches the drums like there are no rules, to such a degree that some other drummers can seem one-dimensional after watching Nate play a set. We may know intellectually that it's possible to play a floor tom and a heavy ride together instead of a kick drum and crash cymbal, or that phrases can start and end on any beat, but Nate's elevated an "all options on the table" approach to state-of-the-art.
In person he's an improbable mixture of modesty and enthusiasm, as evidenced by his very willingness to come by and play/chat with me.
In this interview, Nate reveals:
- The unlikely mixture of influences that gave rise to his heavy-grooving-yet-whimsical style of playing.
- What it's like to work with Wayne Krantz.
- His opinion on how much you should be performing vs practicing.
- Why it's important never to feel like you've finished improving.
- What he actually practices when he practices.
Know you'll love Nate's thoughts and his playing as much as I did. If you dig this episode please share it on Twitter or Facebook!
Arthur Kam is part of the "Gospel Chops class" at Berklee, but he's careful to specify that he's not a showboater - he prides himself on adapting his playing to the song. More Info - http://the8020drummer.com
Kassa Overall is the drummer for Steve Coleman and the Five Elements and Deedee Bridgewater. In this episode we talked about fitting technique into instinct, fitting music into your life, working harder than everyone else, and finding inspiration from adversity. For more information check out http://the8020drummer.com
I sat down with Kurt Rosenwinkel drummer and rising star Colin Stranahan to speak about how and why he plays the drums, how he recognizes promise in young players, the number one thing aspiring drummers do wrong, and how he achieves balance and inspiration. For more information check out http://the8020drummer.com