Class Disrupted: Recent Episodes
Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn
| In our season seven finale of Class Disrupted, Diane Tavenner and I reflected on the conversations about AI that we’ve had over the second half of this season—from those focused on new schooling models to new tools. This felt like a no holds barred conversation—candor and lots of back and forth as we talked about how much of the education sector is still operating under the traditional model, the challenges of creating learning experiences outside of that model, and the tensions between innovation and entrenched systems. We discussed issues like policy backlash against technology in schools, the value of outcome-based contracts, and whether microschools or low-cost private schools can actually drive large-scale change. |
https://archive.org/download/cd-finale-final/CD%20Finale%20FINAL.mp3
Episode transcript:
Takeaways from a Season of AI in EducationDownload
| In this live episode of Class Disrupted, recorded at the ASU + GSV Summit, Netflix founder Reed Hastings joined Michael and Diane again to discuss Reed’s decades-long journey through various chapters of education reform culminating in his vision for how AI will profoundly reshape learning and schooling. Reed reflected on the slow progress and setbacks of past education initiatives, explored the transformative potential of individualized AI-powered tutoring, shared his ambitious global efforts to expand educational access, and emphasized the urgency and promise of harnessing AI for accelerated, mastery-based learning and global impact. |
https://archive.org/download/gsv-reed-final/GSV%20Reed%20FINAL.mp3
Episode transcript:
Reed Hastings transcriptDownload
| MagicSchool has emerged as the breakout AI tool in education, with millions of teachers rapidly adopting it. But what’s behind that growth? How exactly does it use AI? And what does its adoption mean for teaching and learning? Its founder, Adeel Khan, joined us to go beyond the hype. |
https://archive.org/download/adeel-final/Adeel%20final.mp3
Episode transcript:
TranscriptDownload
| Dacia Toll, Co-CEO of Coursemojo and the co-founder of Achievement First, joined Michael and Diane on our latest episode of Class Disrupted to learn about how Coursemojo is using AI to support students and teachers in English Language Arts. Our conversation dove into how Coursemojo functions in real classrooms and the very human process Dacia and her team took to build the product itself. |
https://archive.org/download/cd-dacia-toll-final-1/CD%20Dacia%20Toll%20FINAL%20%281%29.mp3
Episode transcript:
The AI Startup Aiming to Help All Students Find their ELA Mojo.docxDownload
| We’re turning from schools powered by AI to different AI-powered tools now on Class Disrupted!Matt Pasternak, founder and CEO of Once, an AI-powered software solution for early reading instruction, joined us to share the journey of creating Once—including how he started from a low-tech beginning and evolved into a software-powered solution that equips school support staff to deliver effective one-on-one reading tutoring. Our conversation also talked about the importance of human connection in learning. |
https://archive.org/download/120677-how-ai-can-help-educators-v-5/120677_How%20AI%20can%20help%20educators_v5.mp3
Episode transcript:
How AI Can Help Educators—and High Schoolers—Tutor Students So They Learn to ReadDownload
| In the second episode of our miniseries on AI-powered tools in education on Class Disrupted, Andrea Passinetti, the co-founder and CEO of Kira Learning, joined me and Diane Tavenner to discuss the impact of AI on education with a focus on Kira Learning’s new 2.0 platform.Andrea shared the challenges of personalizing learning at scale and how Kira is leveraging AI to consolidate the massive number of edtech tools that districts use, enable real-time curriculum adaptation, and facilitate personalized paths for students. Our conversation explored how Kira’s AI operating system seeks to replace static textbooks with dynamic, deeply tagged curricula to empower teachers and students to achieve mastery through ongoing assessment and individualized interventions. |
https://archive.org/download/kira-learning-video/Kira%20Learning%20Video.mp3
Episode transcript:
Class DisruptedDownload
Cady Ching, CEO of Summit Public Schools, and Dan Effland, Senior Director of Innovation, joined me and Diane on Class Disrupted to discuss Summit’s ongoing transformation from Summit 2.0 to a new, AI-native school model. This is the third and final episode in this mini-series exploring new school models powered by AI—check out our first two on Alpha and Flourish.
This conversation explored how clarity around school outcomes and model design enables effective integration of AI. Cady and Dan shared insights into the evolution of Summit’s expeditions, the importance of holistic, purposeful education, and the need for a robust technology infrastructure to scale innovation.
https://archive.org/download/summit-2.0-updated-final/Summit%202.0%20updated%20final.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ Behind the Reinvention of Summit Public Schools with AIDownload
John Danner, the cofounder of Rocketship Public Schools and now the founder of Flourish Schools, an emerging network of AI-native microschools, joined Michael and Diane to share what’s now possible when it comes to school design in the age of AI that wasn’t previously possible. John explained how Flourish is leveraging AI to deliver foundational skills like reading and math through conversational tutors to free up teachers to focus on building relationships and nurturing students’ passions and “superpowers.” John pointedly explained how the conversational models can be much more powerful than previous edtech applications. He also talked about how Flourish is working to use AI to provide real-time assessment and feedback on student projects.
https://archive.org/download/flourish-final-v-2/Flourish%20FINAL%20v2.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ The AI Behind Flourish MicroschoolsDownload
Many in education—and many beyond—are talking about Alpha School right now. Alpha has been featured in dozens of articles in the mainstream and education media outlets. Its leadership has appeared on countless podcasts to explain and dissect its school model and explore the bigger opportunity to rethink schooling.
On this episode of Class Disrupted, Mackenzie Price, co-founder of the Alpha School, joined Michael and Diane not to explain Alpha School’s model, but instead to dive deep into how Alpha School is leveraging AI to radically rethink the school experience. The intent behind this conversation is more on how AI itself is being leveraged at Alpha—from the core academic block to the afternoon spent in real-world projects and life skills development. What’s possible now in school design that wasn’t possible a decade earlier thanks to AI?
https://archive.org/download/116772-future-of-education-the-ai-behind-alpha-school-v-02/116772_Future%20of%20Education_The%20AI%20Behind%20Alpha%20School_v02.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ The AI Behind Alpha SchoolDownload
Diane and Michael sat down with Paymon Rouhanifard, CEO of Timely, to explore how AI optimization can transform master scheduling in schools. The conversation unpacked the critical role that master schedules play in shaping student experiences, resource allocation, and district priorities. Paymon explained the pain points schools face with traditional scheduling methods and how Timely’s AI-driven approach saves hundreds of hours while enabling systemic change and better use of resources.
https://archive.org/download/116144-future-of-education-the-impact-of-ai-optimization/116144_Future%20of%20Education_The%20Impact%20of%20AI%20Optimization.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ The Impact of AI Optimization on the Use of Time Space and Resources in SchoolsDownload
Michael and Diane stepped back from their interviews to have a one-on-one conversation and reflect at the midpoint of their season on AI in education. They dove into the evolving role of AI in education and questioned whether AI is truly transforming the system or simply being layered onto outdated structures. They explored a framework of three school models that Diane posed and discussed the challenges of meaningful innovation amidst existing accountability systems and education policies. From these models, they analyzed how one might expect transformational change to occur in K–12 schooling—through traditional schools incrementally changing and evolving over time or, as Michael and Diane both argued, through fundamental migration away from the existing system.
https://archive.org/download/115147-v-1-1/115147_V1_1.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ Reflections on Whether AI is Actually Changing Schools—and WhereDownload
Irina Jurenka, the research lead for AI in education at Google DeepMind, joined Michael and Diane to discuss the development and impact of AI tutors in learning. The conversation delved into how generative AI, specifically the Gemini model, is being shaped to support pedagogical principles and foster more effective learning experiences. Irina shares insights from her team’s foundational research, the evolution of AI models over the past three years, and the challenges of aligning AI tutoring with the learning sciences. Irina closed with reflecting on how these innovations may shape the future of education for the next generation—with a hope for a thoughtful blending of technology with the irreplaceable role of human teachers.
https://archive.org/download/115837-future-of-education-deep-minds-learnings-in-developing-an-ai-tutor-v-01/115837_Future%20of%20Education_DeepMind%E2%80%99s%20Learnings%20in%20Developing%20an%20AI%20Tutor_v01.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ DeepMind’s Learnings in Developing an AI TutorDownload
Michael and Diane are joined by Laurence Holt to unpack the current landscape and future potential of AI in K–12 education. The discussion centers on the three main AI use cases emerging in schools: generating materials, providing feedback, and AI tutoring. The conversation explores the vital difference between feedback and grading, the importance of instructional context for effective AI tools, and the complex challenges in cultivating curiosity and self-efficacy in classrooms. The trio also delves into why AI tutoring isn’t yet transformative for most students, the limitations of current chatbots, and the need for school model redesigns and tools that support social learning and durable skills.
https://archive.org/download/115107-future-of-education-ai-in-k-12-feedback-curiosity-and-the-new-frontier-of/115107_Future%20of%20Education_AI%20in%20K%E2%80%9312%20Feedback%2C%20Curiosity%2C%20and%20the%20New%20Frontier%20of%20Teaching%20with%20intro%20and%20ad_V01.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ AI in K–12 Feedback, Curiosity, and the New Frontier of TeachingDownload
Michael and Diane sit down with Alex Kotran, founder and CEO of the AI Education Project (AIEDU), to dive into what true “AI readiness” means for today’s students, educators, and schools. They explored the difference between basic AI literacy and the broader, more dynamic goal of preparing young people to thrive in a world fundamentally changed by artificial intelligence. The conversation ranged from the challenges schools face in adapting assessments and teaching practices for the age of AI, to the uncertainties surrounding the future of work. The episode leaves listeners with some key questions about the role of education, the need for adaptable skills, and how we can collectively steer the education system toward a future where all students benefit from the rise of AI.
https://archive.org/download/114900-future-of-education-what-does-ai-readiness-mean/114900_Future%20of%20Education_What%20Does%20AI%20Readiness%20Mean.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ What Does AI Readiness MeanDownload
Diane and Michael dive into the impact of AI on schools with guest Reed Hastings, founder of Netflix and a dedicated education advocate. The conversation explores Reed’s pragmatic optimism about AI’s potential to individualize learning, reshape the roles of teachers, and revolutionize assessment practices. Reed shares his belief that while AI will transform many aspects of education, it’s crucial for schools to nurture citizenship, social-emotional skills, and a foundation of knowledge independent of technology. The episode also touches on future models for schools, equity in an AI-driven future, and practical examples of how AI is currently enhancing reading and math instruction.
https://archive.org/download/113521-future-of-education-netflixs-reed-hastings-on-the-impact-v-01/113521_Future%20of%20Education_Netflix%27s%20Reed%20Hastings%20on%20the%20Impact_v01.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ The Impact of AI on SchoolsDownload
Diane and Michael sit down with Dr. Tom Lee, acclaimed physician and founder of One Medical and Galileo Health, to explore the parallels between healthcare and education in the age of AI. The conversation dives into how Dr. Lee’s mission to radically transform healthcare systems mirrors similar challenges and opportunities in education, especially around the adoption and integration of AI. They discuss shifting from legacy models to more holistic, technology-enabled frameworks that prioritize both personalized service and systemic change.
https://archive.org/download/112204-future-of-education-what-ai-teach-us-v-2/112204_Future%20of%20Education_What%20AI%20Teach%20US_V2.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ What AI in Healthcare Can Teach Us About Its Impact on EducationDownload
Michael and Diane sit down with Neerav Kingsland, a longtime education leader now at Anthropic, to explore the evolving intersection of artificial intelligence and education. Neerav shares his journey from working in New Orleans’ public school reform to his current role at one of the leading AI companies. The conversation covers the promise of AI tutors and teacher support tools, the key role of application “wrappers” for safe and effective student interaction with AI, and the need for humility and caution, especially with young learners. The episode also delves into the broader societal impacts of AI, the future evolution of schools, and the increasing importance of experimentation and risk-taking for students navigating an uncertain, tech-driven landscape.
https://archive.org/download/110946-future-of-education-from-education-to-anthropic/110946_Future%20of%20Education_From%20Education%20to%20Anthropic.mp3
Episode transcript:
Final Transcript_ From Education to AnthropicDownload
Class Disrupted is back for season 7! In this kickoff episode, Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn reconnected after the summer to reflect on how artificial intelligence is shaping the education landscape. They discussed lingering skepticism about AI’s current use in schools and shared their evolving feelings about the technology. The hosts described their plans for the new season, which starts with a broad look at AI’s development both inside and beyond education, before narrowing in on entrepreneurs and real-world applications that could reinvent learning.
https://archive.org/download/107817-v-1/107817_V1.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript_ Class Disrupted Returns with More Questions About AIDownload
In this end-of-season episode, Michael and Diane come together in person to reflect on the arc of their AI-focused sixth season. They discuss key themes and takeaways, including the enduring importance of foundational knowledge, skepticism around the speed and impact of AI-driven change within traditional schools, and how transformative innovation is more likely to emerge from new educational models outside the mainstream. Their conversation explores the challenges and opportunities AI brings, particularly in developing curiosity as a critical habit for learners, and revisits how their own perspectives shifted throughout the season.
https://archive.org/download/end-of-season-episode-edited/End%20of%20season%20episode%20EDITED.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript – Last episode of CDDownload
Diane and Michael talk through what they’ve learned from their recent miniseries on AI in education. They discuss how AI offers unprecedented access to expertise, but also highlight concerns about its effectiveness for young learners. Throughout, Diane and Michael grapple with skepticism, optimism, and the practical challenges of embedding AI in educational systems, all while looking ahead to what meaningful, student-centered innovation could look like.
https://archive.org/download/96905-future-of-education-processing-ai-in-education-out-loud-v-2/96905_Future%20of%20Education_Processing%20AI%20in%20Education%20Out%20Loud_v2.mp3
Episode transcript:
Title_ Processing AI in Education Out LoudDownload
In this episode of Class Disrupted, hosts Michael Horn and Diane Tavenner chat with Rebecca Winthrop, a senior fellow and director at the Brookings Institution, about the impact of AI on education. The conversation kicks off by highlighting Rebecca’s idea of a premortem approach, which involves anticipating the negative impacts of AI before they occur and strategizing ways to mitigate these risks. They identify key concerns such as cognitive offloading, manipulation, and the effects on socialization and consider how this technology might catalyze a rethinking of the purpose of education.
https://archive.org/download/winthrop-video/Winthrop%20Video.mp3
Episode transcript:
The Premortem on AI by Rebecca WinthropDownload
In this episode, Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn delve into the role of AI in writing education with Jane Rosenzweig, director of the Harvard College Writing Center. Jane underscores the importance of writing as a process of thinking and warns against the “deskilling” of students because of an overreliance on AI. The conversation explores how AI may aid resource shortages in education, while also pondering if AI’s efficiency overshadows the importance of deep learning and authentic writing skills.
https://archive.org/download/93863-v-2/93863_V2.mp3
Episode transcript:
Jane RosenzweigDownload
On this episode, Diane and Michael welcome guest Julia Freeland Fisher, a distinguished researcher from the Clayton Christensen Institute, whose work delves into the intersection of AI and education. The conversation explores the potential and challenges AI presents in the educational landscape. Julia shares her insights on the importance of using AI to enhance personalized learning experiences and facilitate real-world connections for students. She also voices her concerns about AI’s impact on human connection, emphasizing the risk of AI replacing genuine interpersonal relationships.
https://archive.org/download/92929-future-of-education-julia-freeland-fisher-on-class-disrupted-with-intro-v-01/92929_Future%20of%20Education_Julia%20Freeland%20Fisher%20on%20Class%20Disrupted%20with%20intro_V01.mp3
Episode transcript:
Real Experiences, Real People with Julia Freeland FisherDownload
In this episode of Class Disrupted, Michael and Diane chat with Siya Raj Purohit, who works on education initiatives at OpenAI, about the transformative potential of AI in education. Siya shares her career journey and how it led her to focus on bridging the gap between education and workforce development. Highlighting the immense value of AI tools like ChatGPT, particularly in university settings, she underscores its potential to personalize learning, reduce teacher burnout, and enhance classroom interactions. Siya also addresses concerns around AI by emphasizing that while AI can elevate thinking and productivity, the irreplaceable human element in teaching—such as mentorship and personal inspiration—remains vital.
https://archive.org/download/massive-productivity-boost/Massive%20Productivity%20Boost.mp3
Episode transcript:
The Massive Productivity Boost – TranscriptDownload
Techno-optimists have high hopes for how AI will improve learning. But what’s the merit of the “bull case”, and what are the technology’s risks? To think through those questions, Michael and Diane sit down with Ben Riley of Cognitive Resonance, a “think and do” tank dedicated to improving decisions using cognitive science. They evaluate the cases made for AI, unpack its potential hazards, and discuss how schools can prepare for it.
https://archive.org/download/ben-riley-ai-audio/Ben%20Riley%20AI%20-%20Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
Ben Riley on AIDownload
On this episode, John Bailey, who advises on AI and innovation at a number of organizations, including the American Enterprise Institute, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and more, joins Michael and Diane. They discuss AI’s potential to democratize access to expertise, weigh the costs and benefits of its efficiency-boosting applications, and consider how it will change skills required for the workforce of the future.
https://archive.org/download/john-bailey-audio/John%20Bailey%20-%20Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript – Democratizing Access to Expertise_ AI in EducationDownload
At the outset of an AI-themed season, our hosts take stock of their prior assumptions, hopes, and concerns about the technology’s applications in education. They dive into where they see it being used to make adjustments to the current educational model and envision how it could be applied to revolutionize learning.
https://archive.org/download/our-biases-about-ai-audio/Our%20%27Biases%27%20about%20AI%20-%20Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
Our ‘Biases’ about AI – TranscriptDownload
As Diane and Michael launch a sixth season of Class Disrupted, they talk through Michael’s newest book, the bestseller Job Moves: 9 Steps for Making Progress in Your Career, and map its implications back to K12 schools and students through Diane’s startup, Futre.me.
https://archive.org/download/class-disrupted-s-6-e-1-final/Class%20Disrupted%20S6%20E1%20final.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript – Class Disrupted 11_27_2024Download
On their first ever summer episode, Michael and Diane are joined by David Yeager, psychology professor at University of Texas Austin and author of 10 to 25, a new book on youth development. They discuss lessons on healthy youth development tackled in his book, including the science of mentorship, importance of transparency, and strategies for how to help youth reframe stress.
https://archive.org/download/80125-future-of-education-what-the-science-shows-a-mentorship-mindset-can-do-for/80125_Future%20of%20Education_What%20the%20Science%20Shows%20a%20Mentorship%20Mindset%20Can%20Do%20for%20Student%20Motivation_v2.mp3
Episode transcript:
Transcript – Class Disrupted with David YeagerDownload
Michael and Diane welcome Stacey Childress, Senior Education Advisor at McKinsey & Co., back to the show to discuss the world of education philanthropy. Stacey draws from her previous experience at New Schools Venture Fund and the Gates Foundation to analyze troubling trends in the sector. The three discuss what funders and operators can do to grow philanthropic investment in education and better deploy those funds.
https://archive.org/download/76806-future-of-education-concerning-trends-in-philanthropy-for-education-reform/76806_Future%20of%20Education_Concerning%20Trends%20in%20Philanthropy%20for%20Education%20Reform.mp3
Episode transcript:
transcript-concerning-trends-in-philanthropy-for-education-reform-Download
Michael and Diane welcome back Stacey Childress, Senior Education Advisor at McKinsey & Co., for the second episode of a two-part series on the challenges facing K-12 education and promising strategies for addressing them. In this episode, each of them makes the case for one high-impact reform to address the challenges laid out in the previous episode. They discuss reforming how schools evaluate and recommend students, unbundling the core education experience, and doing more to instill character in values through education.
https://archive.org/download/future-of-education-k-12-solutions-part-2-audio/Future%20of%20Education%20-%20K12%20solutions%20part%202%20-Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
transcript-tackling-all-that-k12-school-try-to-do_-the-solutions-part-2-Download
Michael and Diane welcome back Stacey Childress, Senior Education Advisor at McKinsey & Co., for the first of a two-part series on the challenges facing K-12 education and promising strategies for addressing them. In this episode, they outline the nine roles of K–12 education systems in the U.S. and the problems they face in playing each. They highlight the disconnect between current teaching models and the latest learning sciences, unravel the operational challenges schools face, stress the importance of intentionally teaching character and values, and more.
https://archive.org/download/75340-future-of-education-what-k-12-education-tries-to-do-and-where-it-misses/75340_Future%20of%20Education_What%20K12%20Education%20Tries%20To%20Do%20and%20Where%20it%20Misses.mp3
Episode transcript:
transcript-tackling-all-that-k12-school-try-to-do_-the-challenges-part-1-Download
Stacey Childress, Senior Advisor on Education at McKinsey, joins Michael and Diane for the second episode of a two-part series weighing in on Marc Andreseen and Ben Horowitz’s recent analysis of higher education. In this second episode, they react to the venture capitalists’ proposed solutions for higher education. They evaluate the investors’ recommendations and added their own prescriptions along the way.
https://archive.org/download/in-conversation-on-college-part-ii/In%20Conversation%20on%20College%20Part%20II.mp3
Episode transcript:
in-conversation-on-college-part-iiDownload
Michael and Diane welcome Stacey Childress, Senior Advisor on Education at McKinsey, to the podcast for a two-part series weighing in on Marc Andreseen and Ben Horowitz’s recent analysis of higher education. In this first episode, they react to the venture capitalists’ diagnosis of the problems with higher education. They give their vote of where the investors got it right, called out points of disagreement, and added their own insights along the way.
https://archive.org/download/in-conversation-on-college-part-i/In%20Conversation%20on%20College%20Part%20I.mp3
Episode transcript:
in-conversation-on-college-part-iDownload
Michael and Diane discuss why America’s approach to math class isn’t adding up. They analyze the outcomes produced under the status quo, consider the current system’s alignment with workforce needs, and propose a personalized approach to teaching each student the math that is meaningful for their path.
https://archive.org/download/class-disrupted-episode-9-audio/Class%20Disrupted%20Episode%209%20Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-episode-9-transcriptDownload
Michael and Diane sit down with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, a cognitive scientist, researcher, professor, and author focused on intelligence, creativity, and human potential. They discuss the importance of placing all students – not just those that are in gifted or special education programs – at the center of their learning. They also apply nuance to popular concepts in education psychology, consider how intelligence became taboo, and illustrate the importance of seeing the middle way and other sides of the issues.
https://archive.org/download/human-first-redefining-intelligence-and-self-actualization-in-education/Human%20First_%20Redefining%20Intelligence%20and%20Self-Actualization%20in%20Education.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-episode-8Download
Diane discusses Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) with Antonio Saunders, co-founder of Kriseles, a DEI and Business Innovation services provider. The two consider the growing opposition to DEI in American politics and media, Antonio’s innovative and unapologetically hopeful model for DEI, and their collaboration to leverage that model to drive change at Summit Schools.
https://archive.org/download/cd-ep-7-audio/CD_Ep7_Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-episode-7Download
Diane and Michael are joined by Ryan Craig, author of Apprentice Nation to discuss the earn-and-learn alternative to the traditional tuition-based higher education pathway. They address the current state of apprenticeship in the US, its role in an increasingly automated world, and how to incentivize the development and use of apprenticeship programs so they can scale access to opportunity.
https://archive.org/download/class-disrupted-episode-6-audio/Class%20Disrupted%20Episode%206%20Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-episode-6-ryan-craigDownload
Diane and Michael look back on the past three episodes of Class Disrupted’s fifth season through the lens of disruption. They discuss the future of AI education tools; consider the opportunities and challenges as the Carnegie Foundation embarks on creating innovative new assessments with ETS; and highlight how Americans’ ideas of a success are changing and what that means for schools.
https://archive.org/download/21f-46bf-9-0070-458a-b-465-ed-6975a-408eb/21f46bf9-0070-458a-b465-ed6975a408eb.mp3
Episode transcript:
episode-5Download
Timothy Knowles, President of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, joins Diane and Michael to discuss how this historic foundation looks to drive the future of American education. On K–12, they discuss why Carnegie has partnered with ETS and why they are seeking to assess a broader array of skills—not just focus on the standards that are already assessed. They also dive into Carnegie’s push to undo the Carnegie Unit and move toward a competency-based system. Knowles also shares details on the Foundation’s efforts to prioritize social and economic mobility in higher ed by changing how they classify colleges and universities.
https://archive.org/download/ep-4_20231209/EP%204.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-ep.-4-timothy-knowles-assetsDownload
AI expert and Minerva University senior Irhum Shafkat joins Michael and Diane to discuss where AI has been, where it’s going, and the rate at which it’s moving. We also discuss the many forms the technology takes, its implications for humanity, and, of course, its applications in education – as told by a student.
https://archive.org/download/d63c4653-fef7-48cf-a49f-d6cd84e31bb6/d63c4653-fef7-48cf-a49f-d6cd84e31bb6.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-ep.-3Download
Todd Rose returns to share compelling findings about what Americans do and don’t want from their schools, institutions and lives. Spoiler alert! They are rejecting fame, fortune and higher ed as markers of success, and instead want community and financial security. Michael and Diane explore what this might mean for schools.
https://archive.org/download/62982-audio/62982%20Audio.mp3
Episode transcript:
classdisruptedtranscript_toddroseepDownload
Back for Season 5, Michael and Diane catch up on their summers and book reading, Diane’s new entrepreneurial venture, PointB, the season ahead—and then offer some hot takes on the reading wars and Lucy Caulkins, four-year college-for-all, and education jargon.
https://archive.org/download/62331-future-of-education-class-disrupt-ep-1-v-2/62331_Future%20of%20Education_Class%20Disrupt%20Ep1_V2.mp3
Episode transcript:
back-in-conversationDownload
In their last episode of the season, Diane and Michael delve into the role fear and anxiety may be playing behind the community outbursts that have bedeviled so many school leaders. And they suggest a path forward that doesn’t seek to show why one side is wrong, but instead starts with deep listening and empathy.Continue reading "Season 4, Episode 18: Anxiety, Fear, and the Importance of Listening"
Michael and Diane grapple with a concept that pushes their understandings of the test-and-learn approach in education innovation and see the beauty of embracing a child-like approach to learning and exploring boundaries to understand where new ideas work—and maybe more importantly, where they break.
https://archive.org/download/class-disrupted-s-4-e-17-final/Class%20Disrupted%20S4%20E17%20final.mp3
Episode transcript:
class-disrupted-s4-e17-finalDownload
Michael and Diane talk about one of the biggest things to come out of the pandemic: the groundswell movement from parents and others to finally teach children how to read in line with the best evidence from the science of reading. And they express misgivings of whether a legislative approach that bans certain teaching approaches will ultimately help each and every student learn—and ponder the downsides of such an approach.
https://archive.org/download/class-disrupted-s-4-e-16-final/Class%20Disrupted%20S4%20E16%20final.mp3
Episode transcript:
class_disrupted_s4_e16_finalDownload
In the aftermath of horrific school shootings across the country, schools have instituted a range of security measures. Diane and Michael argue that these steps likely have a cost in eroding mental health, which may further contribute to violence in schools and society. The point isn’t that schools shouldn’t “harden” per se, but that these steps are design decisions—and that schools must be more intentional about the ones they make, and why.
https://archive.org/download/class-disrupted-s-4-e-15-final/Class%20Disrupted%20S4%20E15%20final.mp3
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With declining enrollment becoming a staple in American higher education and more students and families souring on the expense of a college education, Diane points out that this can an opportunity—and then puts Michael to the entrepreneurial test in designing what a college alternative might look like.
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As Diane Tavenner prepares to step down from 20 years of founding and leading Summit Public Schools, she shares some of her lessons from which educators, policymakers, and parents can all learn. Hint: It’s all about the students.
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All too often money is a taboo subject in schools—or at least any discussion that doesn’t talk about how schools need more of it. In this episode, Diane and Michael think through how that limits innovation on behalf of students and what could change the culture and actions of schools around this subject.
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Diane updates Michael on the latest progress on one of Summit’s pilots from this year and the two then delve into a discussion of how to bring the new innovation that’s working and scale it up inside the organization—and what to do about the old processes that are no longer needed.
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Back from their trips abroad, Michael and Diane reflect on what they saw in the countries and what that means for shaping educational opportunities for each and every child worldwide.
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Michael and Diane dig deep in analyzing the big acquisition of NWEA in the assessment market by Houghton-Mifflin Harcourt, one of the largest curriculum players in the United States. They conclude that we should be skeptical that the acquisition will improve teaching and learning for students or that it will pay off as much as HMH might like.
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In this episode, Diane reflects around why failure in life and schools is hard—and she and Michael dissect why it’s nevertheless important. Diane shares how, after a set of tests don’t work as planned, her schools then chart a pivot to a new direction.
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Diane and Michael break down the latest frenzy around artificial intelligence and education. They explore if and how ChatGPT could be an innovation in education, what would make it innovative (hint: it’s not the technology!), and how it could be a useful tool in creating better learning experiences.
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Arguably the scarcest resource in schools is people. And people are imperative for doing a pilot and innovating well. In this episode of Class Disrupted, Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn delve into how to best use people when innovating and what are the key roles that you must fill to do a pilot well.
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Diane Tavenner shares with Michael Horn her excitement about a school visit she did recently in South Carolina to the Anderson Institute of Technology—which raises the question of why aren’t there more schools like what Diane saw? Episode transcript:
Schools typically have long laundry lists of all the pilots and innovations they want to do—if only they had the time and resources. Or they have laundry lists of improvement projects that are in the works—but then the execution suffers on all of them. How should a school choose which innovations and improvements to invest inContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 4: Which Pilots Should My School Try?"
Whether there’s a teacher shortage depends on who you ask and the definition of “shortage” it seems. In this episode, Diane and Michael welcome reporter Kevin Mahnken from The74 to provide up to date information on the data and storylines in the media. Then Diane details what her reality is on the ground in herContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 3: Is There a Teacher Shortage? It Depends"
Diane and Michael reflect about how all too often educators tell them that they’re piloting something, but when they dig in, what they’re doing doesn’t actually sound like a pilot. To make this crystal clear, they put one of Summit’s current pilots under the microscope to start to break down just what is a pilot and … Continue reading Season 4, Episode 2: What Does a Real Pilot Look Like in a School?
Although classrooms are not disrupted as they were over the last three school years, Diane and Michael are back with the goal of finding a way to disrupt them. In their opening episode of Season 4, the two catch up on headlines from their summers and share a preview for how they plan to help … Continue reading Season 4, Episode 1: The Disruptive Journey Ahead
In the final episode of season 3, Diane notes that many of the solutions to help make schools safer all focus around banning things: banning CRT, books, speakers, and more. Michael and Diane discuss what these ideas from both sides of the political spectrum share in common—and whether this instinct is actually the way to … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 20: Does banning things actually keep children safe in schools?
In this episode, Michael brings Diane a puzzle. A reader recently pushed back on an assertion in his upcoming book, From Reopen to Reinvent, that “fixed grouping of children by perceived ability… narrows opportunities,” by suggesting that older students are in fact relatively fixed in their abilities. In turn, Diane unpacks what’s behind the statement and … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 19: Are older students fixed in their abilities?
As charter schools face challenges in the Beltway, Diane and Michael go back to first principles around the purpose of charter schools by revisiting the original 1992 California Act that created charter schools in the state and assess how they’ve done. They then do a deep dive into innovation theory to revisit the promise and … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 18: Revisiting the promise and potential of charter schools 30 years later
Having returned from Germany, Diane shares what she learned about how Germany remembers the Holocaust and what it teaches its children about it so that it does not repeat its past. Michael and Diane reflect how the way Germany approaches the conversation could offer a new starting point to help America move past its polarizing … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 17: Never Forget: Lessons America’s education debates can learn from Germany
In their final episode exploring the themes of meritocracy and education, Diane and Michael describe the rethinking that has gone on in education around the college-for-all movement and suggest a path forward that learns from the past.
Diane and Michael work to dispel the myths around selective college admissions, dissect whether they are in fact meritocratic, and architect what they see as a better path forward.
Diane and Michael dive into the fierce debate around selective exam schools as a case study to not only identify the problems in implementation that meritocracy-based ideas have created, but also to suggest solutions that retain and amplify the benefits of meritocracy.
In this episode, Diane details the discussion of the history, pluses, and minuses with meritocracy through the prism of three recent books on the topic. Michael and Diane then discuss how this intersects with our K–12 education system—and set up two episodes to come about exam schools and selective college admissions.
There are two dominant narratives in education right now about teachers. On the one hand, many media stories and educators say loudly that teachers are leaving in droves, which is making it hard to manage schools. On the other hand, researchers are observing that the numbers of quits don’t appear much different from how it’s been … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 12: Is there a teacher exodus or not? Digging into the dispute
Michael and Diane explore what’s driving parent—and educator—frustration with schools, and how misalignment between different groups may actually create a path toward a more personalized school system where grace and gratitude return.
Michael asks Diane to explain what expectations are unrealistic for schools to fulfill. Diane discusses how the layering of requirements and regulations on schools have stretched them in unintended and burdensome ways that require a redesign—not a bolted-on approach.
John Bailey, education policy expert and writer of the nightly COVID-19 Policy Update on Substack, joins Diane and Michael to talk about the current state of COVID and schools, Omicron, vaccinations, testing, and more.
In this final episode of 2021, Diane and Michael share three wishes for schooling in the new year that focus on personalization, grace, and renewing ESSA.
Diane and Michael engage in a frank conversation about the challenges students and schools are experiencing this year. Headlines have noted an increase in physical altercations. The two discuss why this is and what solutions do or don’t exist.
With large numbers of teachers resigning from schools, Diane and Michael dive into what exactly is happening right now in schools, explore how it’s different from past teacher shortages, and ask bigger questions about who is a teacher and the system of preparing and developing our teachers—and suggest a hopeful path that might emerge from the … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 6: Who are America’s teachers?
In this episode, Diane interviews Michael about exactly where students are learning formally this year, what’s driving the change in enrollment in public schools, and what will be the longer term impact.
In this episode Michael interviews Diane about the difference between standards and curriculum, and why she’s in favor of a common core set of standards but not a common curriculum.
Diane and Michael break down who decides what gets taught and analyze the specific roles of everyone from the different arms of government to teachers, parents, textbook companies—and even committees and colleges.
With conversations around Critical Race Theory and learning loss rampant, what schools teach is hot right now. Rather than tackle those specific debates, in this episode Diane and Michael wave their magic wand to offer a framework around what schools should teach — and how it’s different from what they do today.
As we enter a third year of schools being hugely impacted by COVID 19, Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn launch a third season of the Class Disrupted podcast, and for the first time record in person! In their unique twist on the tradition of back-to-school shopping they explore the top five wants, and realize they … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 1: What’s on a school leader’s back-to-school shopping list in the time of COVID?
Diane and Michael welcome listeners back for a third season of Class Disrupted and reflect on how urgent it is to rethink the fundamental structures undergirding schools—and how this year might afford more opportunities for communities to implement some significant changes.
In the final episode of Season 2 of Class Disrupted, Diane and Michael talk through four recurrent themes on the podcast—and how each conversation would benefit from more nuance. The topics? Politics, testing, location of learning, and doing something with versus doing something to your community.
Students, parents and educators are all exhausted from the past year—and here comes summer! How should the time be used and how will it be used? Diane and Michael offer some takes—and dig into some new research around accelerating students versus offering them remediation.
Joel Rose, cofounder of Teach to One, joins Michael and Diane to talk about why now is the moment to lean into innovation—not back away from it—and how we need new learning models to advance the possibilities for all students, not just the third who get by in the current education system.
With an unprecedented cash infusion going to public schools from the federal government, Michael and Diane interview noted school finance expert Marguerite Roza to understand the contours of the new funding landscape and what are the opportunities – and risks – for schools and districts.
Since very early in the pandemic, education policy expert John Bailey has been in front of collecting key data and research about COVID and its impact on education and disseminating that research to leaders in education. Diane and Michael caught up with John to talk about the learnings from the pandemic thus far.
Diane and Michael dig deep into the importance of an inclusive design process to rethink schooling with the co-CEOs of Transcend Education, Aylon Samouha and Jeff Wetzler.
As the CDC once again revised its guidance around school reopening and the Department of Education drums up conversation around summer school, Diane and Michael dig into who is driving the narrative around the future of schooling and why that matters.
Diane and Michael plan with the end in mind and backward map the top 5 things schools must have in place before students start the school year in the fall.
In this episode, Michael jumped in the interviewer chair to ask Diane as an educator about how she’s treating the Biden administration’s announcement about requiring spring testing, how she thinks about the learning loss conversation, and why the school reopening question has become so fraught with emotion and tension.
The mainstream media seems to be noticing, at last, that learning pods are popping up to serve low-income learners. Diane and Michael discuss whether the community organizations behind these pods might help transform the schooling system beyond the pandemic. Plus, the two ponder what does it mean that serving on the education committee in Congress … Continue reading Season 2, Episode 12: Learning pods for low-income learners
In Chicago, the district and union have sparred over the question of reopening. Michael and Diane explore a better approach to reopening and dive into how parents can navigate these challenging times—as well as how educators can make sure struggling readers get the support they need.
Diane and Michael delve into the challenges that attempting to teach students in-person and remotely at the same time poses—and ponder if design thinking can help educators find a better way forward.
With the naming of Miguel Cardona as President-elect Biden’s nominee for Secretary of Education and the arrival of vaccines, Diane and Michael break down the potential for a broader reset in schools.
Diane and Michael wade into the hot-button topic of teachers’ unions for the first time in Class Disrupted. What role are they playing in school closures and reopenings—and how they can help or hinder innovation in schools?
Diane and Michael dig into the debate among educators around requiring students to turn on their video cameras during live classes, and ask whether policies that punish students for not having their cameras on miss a bigger set of opportunities. Speaking of opportunities, they discuss if we’re missing a big one by not encouraging mastery … Continue reading Season 2, Episode 7: Turn on your video cameras!
Diane and Michael tackle the question of who the next secretary of education might be by starting with what the US Department of Education actually does. And in the wake of California’s announcement that it will shorten its annual tests by half, they debate how–and whether–annual testing should take place this spring.
Diane talks through the considerations and challenges in reopening schools – and what that term even means – to help all stakeholders think through the central purpose of schooling and how we might measure success in this strange school year.
Michael and Diane tackle the thorny – and often emotional – question of sports and schools in this latest episode, as well as how to think about a change GreatSchools made recently to its school rating formula to try and decouple a school’s rating from the income level and racial makeup of its students.
With students and parents going to extraordinary lengths to take the SAT–and one school superintendent making a football field available so students could take the test–Diane and Michael tackle the question of how much the SAT really matters and how should parents and educators in colleges and districts frame the choice of taking the test … Continue reading Season 2, Episode 3: The Fires Burning Behind the SAT and Patriotic Education
As Michael launches a learning pod for his own daughters, Diane and Michael tackle whether the trend of pandemic pods might actually disrupt America’s schools. And the two consider whether lessons from charter schools that successfully supported students in the spring can help inform what remote schooling should look like for all students.
Diane and Michael return with a second season of Class Disrupted. As the pandemic stretches on and the impact on education remains significant and uneven, Class Disrupted pivots to taking on the latest headlines in education and tackling them through the prism of transforming education and the major themes introduced in Season 1 of the podcast.
In this final episode of Class Disrupted, Diane and Michael look once more at the problems in education, but through the urgently important lens of equity—and advocate for what must be done today Credits: Hosted by Diane Tavenner, Michael Horn; Written by Jenna Free; Produced by Steve Chaggaris; Publicity/Graphics by Nathan James
Summer has long been dreaded by parents who worry about gaps in childcare and the logistics and expense of summer camps. Diane and Michael explore the advantages of a year round calendar—for parents, kids, and for teachers. Credits: Hosted by Diane Tavenner, Michael Horn; Written by Jenna Free; Produced by Steve Chaggaris; Publicity/Graphics by Nathan … Continue reading Episode 9: Should School Be Year Round?
As we look toward returning to school of some sort in the fall, Diane and Michael discuss four ways to approach a new normal, using a student-centered approach. Credits: Hosted by Diane Tavenner, Michael Horn; Written by Jenna Free; Produced by Steve Chaggaris; Publicity/Graphics by Nathan James
When schools began distance learning, the grading system went into upheaval. Diane and Michael discuss what grades are really meant to do, and a college freshman talks about the way straight As for all made her redefine learning. Credits: Hosted by Diane Tavenner, Michael Horn; Written by Jenna Free; Produced by Steve Chaggaris; Publicity/Graphics by … Continue reading Episode 7: Straight As for all? What’s the purpose of a grade?
Distance learning has shown parents how chaotic learning so often is for kids, with different norms (and passwords!) for each class. Diane and Michael discuss how this reality grew out of a factory model of schooling, and talk to End of Average author Todd Rose about a way to approach school that honors individuality for … Continue reading Episode 6: Help! My child and I are overwhelmed!
So much time is left on the cutting room floor at school—time that could be spent teaching the habits of success kids will need to be prepared adults. Diane and Michael talk with Grit author Angela Duckworth about what these habits are and how they translate to success, and to Veronica Vitale of Acorn Montessori, … Continue reading Episode 5: My kid’s able to finish schoolwork in two hours. So what is he doing for the six he normally spends at school?
As parents nationwide have been thrust in the role of distance-learning support staff, they’re questioning the real purpose of school. Should it just be about “playing the game” to get to college? Diane and Michael talk to a parent who asked this question and went rogue on her daughter’s distance learning plan; and to Adam … Continue reading Episode 4: Why are we doing school?
Over 100 million people use Khan Academy; with the pandemic, it’s more popular than ever. But learning requires more than a great teacher combined with a great digital tool. Diane and Michael talk to Sal Khan about why he can’t—and shouldn’t—teach everyone everything, and he shares his hope about what education can look like, both … Continue reading Episode 3: Can’t Sal Khan just teach everyone?
Diane and Michael answer parents’ questions about why so much of the school work they see their children doing is boring and uninspired. Larry Berger, CEO of Amplify, joins them to explain how textbooks and other curriculum materials make their way into schools, and the three paint a vision for how engaging learning can be … Continue reading Episode 2: Why is my child doing so many worksheets right now?
For many families in the U.S., the Internet is like water. Just part of the household. But as COVID-19 has shown, that’s not true for everyone. Diane and Michael speak with Evan Marwell, the founder of the Education Superhighway, about what it will take to get the Internet and devices to all kids–and why that … Continue reading Episode 1: Why Doesn’t Every Student Have a Device and the Internet?
As schools have shifted rapidly to remote learning, parents have a lot of questions and challenges. Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn talk about why they’re launching this podcast series to answer them.