Podcast Archives - Jody Moore

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Learn how I’ve achieved anything significant in my life. Whether you're aiming to lose weight, grow your business, or accomplish something that seems impossible right now, this systematic approach will help you get there.

The post 517. Guaranteed Success appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Have you ever noticed how some people seem to grow stronger through their challenges while others stay stuck in their pain? The difference isn’t in what happened to them – it’s in how they process it. This week, I explore the critical difference between letting painful experiences continue to hurt us in the form […]

The post 516. Wisdom vs. Trauma appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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What role do you play in the world? I explore a powerful concept that challenges how we view our role in the communities, institutions, and networks we’re part of every day. Rather than seeing ourselves as separate from the problems or challenges around us, we must recognize that we’re active contributors to everything from […]

The post 515. It Starts With You appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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I just wrapped up a powerful coaching session with a fellow coach who’s stuck, spinning, and second-guessing everything she’s doing. After helping her uncover the brain drama at the root of her problem, I decided to share that coaching session right here on the podcast. We all do this when stretching ourselves and getting […]

The post 514. Stuck, Spinning, and Second Guessing: A Coaching Session appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Disclaimer: this episode touches on mental health, addiction, and suicide. What if the most meaningful chapter of your life hasn’t even begun yet? Many women think their most important work is behind them once their children are grown. However, my guest this week believes this mindset is not only limiting but potentially harmful to […]

The post 513. Expand, Don’t Shrink: Living Bigger in the Second Half of Life with Kristin Andrus appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Have you ever noticed how some emotional pain seems to help you grow, while other types just keep you stuck in a cycle of suffering? I’ve been fascinated by this distinction for years, and after mentioning it briefly at a recent speaking engagement, I realized I needed to dedicate an entire episode to exploring […]

The post 512. Clean Pain and Dirty Pain appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Are you constantly searching for the perfect strategy to grow your coaching business? The ideal funnel, the most engaging content, the most profitable niche? I’ve got news for you – those tactics are only 20% of what creates success. The other 80%? It’s all about your mindset. I see it all the time – coaches […]

The post 511. There’s Only One Way to Succeed as a Coach appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Have you ever caught yourself thinking something negative and then immediately defending it with “but it’s true”? I find this happens all the time when I’m coaching clients. They’ll recognize a thought as just that—a thought—but then struggle to let it go because they believe it’s accurate or true. This distinction between facts and […]

The post 510. It’s Just a Thought, But What If It’s True? appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Have you been living your life based on a hidden lie that’s holding you back? I’ve discovered a two-word concept that’s been sabotaging our happiness, our relationships, and our progress toward our goals. This seemingly innocent phrase has become so embedded in our daily vocabulary that we barely notice it—yet it’s the very thing […]

The post 509. The Lie We’ve All Bought Into appeared first on Jody Moore Coaching.

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Do you ever find yourself feeling confused, frustrated, or stuck in negative emotions about certain topics or situations in your life? It’s possible that your brain is either oversimplifying complex issues or overcomplicating simple ones, and in this episode, I explore how our minds tend to distort reality in these two distinct ways, leading to what I call “dirty pain.”

When we oversimplify multifaceted topics like politics, religion, or parenting choices, it’s easy to feel angry and confused. On the flip side, when we overcomplicate straightforward issues like how to eat healthily or grow a business, we can get stuck in guilt, overwhelm, and indecision. Recognizing these patterns is the first step to breaking free.

Join me this week as I share examples of how this plays out in various areas of life, from personal health to relationships and entrepreneurship. You’ll learn why our brains love to stay stuck in confusion rather than take action, how to identify when you’re in dirty pain, and my top tips for steering your mind back to simple, honest truths that will help you make progress in the areas you want.

Want free coaching? Join me for a complimentary coaching workshop by clicking here.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How oversimplifying complex topics can lead to anger and confusion. * Why overcomplicating simple issues keeps you stuck in guilt and overwhelm. * The difference between “clean pain” that helps you grow and “dirty pain” that keeps you stuck. * How to recognize when you’re experiencing dirty pain due to oversimplifying or overcomplicating. * Simple strategies to steer your mind back to clear, productive thinking for better results. * Why your brain prefers confusion and complication as a way to avoid necessary discomfort.

Human brains are so fascinating. Mostly they take really good care of us. We don’t even have to think about it and we have unconscious or subconscious things happening that really make our lives better and easier and make us better. But occasionally, our brains need a little bit of management, a little bit of direction. And I find the best way to do that is with some awareness.

Today I want to bring awareness to this funny thing that the human brain does, which is to take complicated topics and simplify them, or to take really simple things and complicate them. Why do our brains do this? How do we know when we’re doing this? Why is it a problem? And what do we do about it? That’s what I’m going to be teaching you today. This is episode 487: It’s Simple. It’s Complicated.

Welcome to Better Than Happy, the podcast where we transform our lives by transforming ourselves. My name is Jody Moore. In the decade-plus I’ve been working with clients as a Master Certified Coach, I’ve helped tens of thousands of people to become empowered. And from empowered, the things that seemed hard become trivial, and the things that seemed impossible become available, and suddenly, a whole new world of desire and possibility open up to you. And what do you do with that?

Well, that’s the question… what will you do? Let’s find out.

Sometimes, listening to a podcast is enough. But sometimes, you’ll feel inspired to go deeper. If you hear things that speak to you in today’s episode, consider it your invitation to a complimentary coaching workshop.

On this live, interactive Zoom call with me, you’ll get a taste of the power of this work when applied in real life. You can participate, or be a silent observer. But you have to take a step if you want to truly see change in your life… two steps, actually. Head to jodymoore.com/freecoaching and register. Then you just have to show up. Your best life is waiting for you. Will you show up for it? Jodymoore.com/freecoaching. I’ll see you there.

Hello, everybody. All right, I have this theory and I’m gonna talk about it here on the podcast, and I’ve thought through it well enough that I feel comfortable doing a podcast episode on it, but as I talk it through with you all, sometimes I surprise myself by some insights and discovery. So let’s just see if that happens today.

But I wanna talk about how our brains take things that are complicated and simplify them, and then we take simple things and we make them complicated at times. And my theory on this that I’m going to test out as we speak through it is that we can know when we’re doing this because we will be creating some kind of dirty pain.

Okay, so there’s this concept created in the world of behavioral psychology called clean pain and dirty pain. And I love this concept. I find it to be really useful because I’m not a believer that we should feel positive and happy all the time. I don’t think that’s normal or necessary and I don’t think it serves us to try to be happy all the time even.

I think that we should learn how to allow negative emotions. We don’t want to think positively about everything. And just learning to be with our emotions, to process them, to breathe through them, to make it okay for ourselves and also for our children or for other people that we have influence over is a big part of my work. It sets you free to learn how to just feel your feelings. But clean pain is the kind of pain that is really refining.

It makes us better versions of ourselves as we experience and allow clean pain. The best way I can think to describe clean pain is it almost feels spiritual, right? Like grief when we’ve lost a loved one or a relationship has ended or we’ve gotten some kind of bad news that we want to interpret as bad news. That is clean pain. It’s natural and normal to go through a grieving process, which can include all kinds of things, right? Sadness, anger, bargaining, denial, et cetera, all the emotions that come along with grief, right? Necessary, useful, moves us through an experience so that at some point we look back and realize that we are more expanded, maybe more patient, maybe more generous, more grateful. In some way we are better for having gone through that experience.

Now, when we’re in the thick of it, none of us wanna hear anyone remind us that you’re gonna be better on the other side of this, but it is the reality of what happens when we experience and allow clean pain. It can move us through an experience and refine us and make us better, right?

Dirty pain, on the other hand, is not necessary. Now, I don’t want to imply that that means that you’re bad if you’re experiencing dirty pain. I don’t think it’s useful to judge yourself when you notice dirty pain. It’s just that if we clean that up, if we can clean it up anyway, through thought work is my favorite way to clean it up. But if you can clean it up, then it’s useful to do so. Because experiencing that kind of pain is not making you more expanded, more patient, more compassionate, more grateful, more of all the things that we all want to be more of. More spiritual, more enlightened, whatever you want to say. Okay?

Dirty pain actually, instead of moving us through an experience, keeps us stuck in an experience. In fact, we can stay stuck in a negative place for decades if we’re not careful, right? You’ve seen this happen before. You’ve seen the person who’s still bitter and angry about the thing that happened in their life 40 years ago, and you get it. It’s justified to be mad about it, but you wonder at some point why they’re continuing to let it make their life worse than it needs to be by hanging onto it for so long, right?

So dirty pain is the kind of pain that we want to let go of when we can, as soon as we can. It’s not going to make us more of the kind of people we want to be. In fact, it can make us bitter and cynical or fearful, etc. So the reason I’m fleshing out this concept is because my theory is that dirty pain is always a result of us either making something simple complicated, or making something that is complicated too simple. Okay, so hear me out and we’re going to play with examples.

One form of dirty pain is confusion, and not always, but often, this is dirty pain, right? When we’re feeling confused, frustrated, maybe even some righteous indignation. And I hate to say it, but this is what happens for a lot of people right now in regards to our political landscape. Okay? So, and it happens equally, I see it happen equally on both sides of the spectrum, so this is not to call out any one political party. I think I see it happening equally on both sides, okay?

But if you have, let’s say, a candidate or a policy or something that you feel strongly about and you’re super frustrated and you find yourself saying, I don’t understand how they couldn’t see it this way, how could the other side possibly see it their way, then usually what that means is we’re taking what is a very complicated, multi-layered, multifaceted topic, oversimplifying it down to one simple thing. Right?

It often sounds like, how do they hate people like that? Or why do they think that we shouldn’t have freedom? Why do they think that we shouldn’t love everyone? Right? We say things like this, that like when you make it that simple, right? When you oversimplify it, like for sure the reason that person voted that way is because they hate people or they hate money or they hate anything that you know is good. Or they love anger. They love violence.

We fill it in with something negative that most people actually don’t love that stuff. And maybe it doesn’t sound like that. Maybe it sounds like they hate women. Why do they hate men? Like we just take these things and we simplify them down into our interpretation of the other side. And then we feel angry and frustrated and we say, I’m just so confused.

I don’t understand how they could vote that way or see it that way. Okay. And my answer is, yeah, we don’t understand when we don’t want to understand. And when we simplify what are complicated things, it’s not out of a desire to understand. It’s out of a desire to be right, to feel justified in our anger or frustration.

And I’m not saying you shouldn’t be angry or frustrated, okay, no matter what. I’m just saying that when you notice yourself feeling this way, pause and go, wait a second, have I taken what is a really actually complex topic, like why people vote the way they vote, and simplified it down into one soundbite? Because if so, you’re likely gonna feel angry and confused. And it’s okay to, but just know that that’s punishing you to feel angry or confused.

And if you genuinely want to understand the other person’s point of view, you’re going to have to open yourself up to the complication that is our political decisions. Okay? Politics is just one area. It just happens to be very relevant this week in the United States. But we do this with religion too, right? We say things like, well, you know, our church teaches, fill in the blank, our church teaches that women should be at home with their kids. Really? Or is that like kind of an oversimplification of maybe what you heard someone say or what you think the overall message is. Is it actually a lot more complicated than that? I don’t know, I’m just saying maybe.

And I think, again, the way you can tell is ask yourself, how do I feel when I think about it this way, if I feel upset, angry, and that doesn’t feel like a useful way to feel in this situation, maybe it is useful. I’m not saying anger is never useful, but is it? And if not, ask yourself, wait, am I oversimplifying what is actually pretty complicated? I’m trying to think of some of the other oversimplifications I’ve heard people say when it comes to, like the LDS church, for example. People say things like, you know, you either have to be all in or all out. You can’t just be part way in. I’m like, really? Says who? I mean, that’s not how I see it.

And so again, what we’ve done is we’ve taken some part, I’m not saying that you don’t have a valid case for it, I’m just saying it’s kind of an oversimplification. It’s just a quick soundbite. And gosh, our world today is full of quick soundbites. Right our phones love a quick soundbite. That’s actually the only thing you can do. You can’t put a reel on Instagram that’s longer than 90 seconds. So what can you say in 90 seconds? Not anything very complicated. Not anything that might not get misunderstood if it’s very complicated. Right?

So politics and religion are two where we do a lot of oversimplifying. And you will know because you will feel some kind of dirty pain. Some righteous indignation, some frustration, some confusion, something like this.

How about parenting? Parenting is another one where we sometimes do this over simplifying thing. Like I don’t understand. Why would you let your kid do that? Maybe you like to put your kids in sports and you know somebody who doesn’t put their kids in sports. And you’re like, wouldn’t you want your kid to be more confident and get exercise? Okay, so notice how we just totally oversimplified what is a complicated decision.

Someone might have a whole bunch of reasons for not putting their kids in sports or in public school or any other parenting decision. But we simplify it down to, I don’t understand. Do you hate kids? Do you hate your kids? It’s like, no, there’s probably not a lot of people walking around going, I just don’t want my kid to be confident or to get any exercise. They just simply have prioritized different things.

By the way, I’ve listened to myself do this very thing just this past week, where I’ve oversimplified something down to a soundbite so that I can feel justified and righteous about my decision when it’s all complicated in the end. It’s complicated. There’s a lot of factors to consider in any one of these decisions, right?

I see people over simplify when it comes to big decisions they’re trying to make in their lives sometimes. Right? Like, well, I can’t decide what to do. Do I leave my marriage or stay in the marriage?

Now I’m not saying there’s never a time to make a decision like that, that’s that black and white. But oftentimes what we’re forgetting is it’s, it doesn’t have to be that simple. Everything doesn’t have to be binary. Maybe there’s a way that I want to stay in my marriage, but I changed the arrangement. Maybe I changed my mind about what marriage has to look like or could look like. Maybe we want to stay married, but we want to live in separate houses.

Or maybe we want to, I don’t know, like there can be millions of options in between get a divorce or stay married, the way that our minds have simplified marriage and how it should look. What if we let it be complicated? What if we let it be like, I don’t know, just there’s so many options. It might serve us to consider a lot more options.

I see people do this with certain results in their businesses too, when I’m working with entrepreneurs, right? They say things like, well, my Facebook ad isn’t working. I’m like, wait, I have no idea what that means because you just simplified what is actually a kind of complex thing. Like if you’ve ever run ads on Facebook or through Meta, Facebook, Instagram, et cetera, there’s all kinds of metrics like click through rate and frequency and conversion and cost per lead or cost per conversion. And like, there’s just a whole bunch of dynamics.

And when they say my Facebook ad isn’t working, I’m like, what does that mean? Oh, well, I’ve only gotten two people on my email list. Okay, you’re still oversimplifying. I need you to give me more details. This is a complicated thing to discover. Like how much money did you put into it? How much time has it run? How much testing have you done? How many versions of the ad did you run? Like all of those factors are very relevant before I would say your Facebook ad isn’t working, right? But we just simplify it down.

My business isn’t succeeding. My business is failing. My business is shrinking. My business is declining. I mean, It’s actually all pretty complicated, right? Now, there are some metrics we could pull out, like I made less money this month than I made last month.

Okay, but let’s look at all the complicated dynamics about why that might be before we just slap a really simple label on it of my business isn’t working. When people say to me sometimes, I had a business, you know, 10 years ago, I started a business and it crashed and burned. I was like, what does that mean? That’s a very simplified way to describe what is a very complex thing.

Does that mean you walked away from it? You gave up? Does that mean somebody sued you? And, or does that mean, like, what does that mean? That can mean so many things. But we just try to simplify it into a quick soundbite, which I’m okay with if it feels good. But if it feels like dirty pain, which is resentful, full of guilt or shame or blame or confusion or frustration, that’s all dirty pain. It’s not helping you become a better version of you. It’s just weighing you down. It’s like a heavy, heavy weight. And that’s because you oversimplified what is something very complicated.

So if you’re going to simplify it, make it something that feels good. Like that business was complete. My time with that business was complete. Now that’s simple, that’s just over simplification, but it feels good to me. So that would be a win, right? That’s when we want to simplify it, when, and again, it needs to be believable to you, but if that feels believable, my marriage was complete instead of my marriage ended in failure. Simplify it if it’s gonna make you feel good, but not if it makes you feel bad.

The other area, because I’ve been talking a lot about health as I’ve been working on my own health journey a lot the last year or so is results of your, we’ll call it your diet or exercise plan. Like I’m not losing weight. Okay, what does that mean? Because if you look at my chart, where I chart my weight every day, it goes up and down and up and down and up and down, and it’s making a gradual decline, and then sometimes a gradual uphill climb and then sometimes just steady and then sometimes down again.

And like, I mean, I’m not losing weight is just a gross oversimplification of the facts of the reality because all of this actually takes a long time and it might be more accurate to say I’m not eating on plan, which is still a simplification. But just be careful about oversimplifying what are really complicated, interesting, but full of all sorts of variables, all sorts of factors, topics.

Now, the other thing we do is we complicate what is actually very simple. Okay? Now why do our brains do this? I don’t know. My guess is that it’s because it’s just a lot easier to be confused or uncertain or undecided than to actually sit down and do what we want to be doing and feel that we need to be doing or should be doing.

And obviously those aren’t always useful ways to think about it but I’m just saying get into work. Taking useful action is something that our brains will try to avoid if it means we’re gonna have to forgo pleasure or experience pain or do anything that feels like it’s going to take a lot of energy or figuring out. And one way that we avoid it is just by overcomplicating things.

So let’s go back to what we were talking about with diet and exercise. Like I said, we tend to simplify the result part, like it’s not working. I’m not getting stronger. I’m not lowering my glucose numbers or I’m not losing weight. We oversimplify the result, but we overcomplicate the process or the how-to. People are like, I just don’t know what to do. I mean, I have this plan that I’m following, but I’m just not losing weight. I’m like, really? Are you following your plan? I mean, kind of, pretty well. I don’t know. What did you eat yesterday? I don’t know. Oh, so it is actually really simple.

I mean, I’ll take myself as an example, right? Because yeah, I’m still losing a little bit of weight, but my main focus right now is my glucose numbers. Like, I want to keep my glucose regulated, and I got it down to where it was regulated, and then it’s kind of come back up as I stopped monitoring it. So I put my CGM back on and monitoring it again. I’m going to dial it in. I am determined to not get diabetes.

Okay? So my brain wants to be like, I don’t know, it’s just so hard. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to eat. I don’t know how to do this, but it’s not complicated. It’s actually very simple. I need to eat more of the foods that don’t spike my glucose and less of the ones that do. And I need to move my body regularly. That’s it. It’s really that simple. Like I need to eat less sugar and flour and I need to eat more protein and the kind of carbs that have fiber with them and I need to move my body after I eat as much as possible. Like it’s actually really simple, but my brain doesn’t want it to be simple because then I have no excuse. I just need to go do it.

I want it to be complicated and hard because you know, what are you saying? I should never eat sugar again? Come on. This is so confusing. I just don’t know what to do here. I hope I’m not the only one that has that voice in my head.

Even the reasons why we’re overeating, right? Sometimes when I’m coaching people on this, I’m like, okay, so you ate, whatever. You ate a bunch of junk yesterday. Tell me what you ate. We get it down on paper first. We make that really simple. It’s not confusing. I don’t know. I just ate so many things. No, it’s not. Tell me what you ate. Okay. We make a list.

Now, why did you eat it? Next thing we want to do is, I don’t know. It’s so complicated, right? We make it so complicated. I’m like, no, it’s not complicated. You just told me you ate chocolate chips. Why did you eat chocolate chips? Because chocolate chips are delicious. Because you get a dopamine hit when you eat chocolate chips. And you told me you ate them right after you put the kids down to bed. I wonder why.

Maybe it’s because you were stressed and overwhelmed and exhausted and you felt sort of deprived and you don’t have enough joy in your life. It’s actually really simple. You wanted something fun and pleasurable and that’s what chocolate chips are. It’s really simple, right? Oh yeah, it is.

When I say it that way, everyone’s like, oh yeah, it is really simple. Why did I not see that? Because you have a human brain that wants to complicate simple things.

How do you know you’re doing this? Because you will feel what we call dirty pain. You will feel guilty or ashamed or confused or overwhelmed or undecided. Most times this is dirty pain. It’s not the kind of pain that feels spiritual and expansive and enlightening. It’s the kind of pain that keeps you stuck. You can’t progress from dirty pain. You’ll just spin and spin and spin like a hamster running on a wheel. So you’re either overcomplicating or oversimplifying something when you have dirty pain.

Let’s talk about your kids. I see us go to this overcomplication piece a lot when it comes to our kids, right? So for example, I’ll coach somebody who will say something like, my teenager keeps lying to me and I don’t know why. Like we talked about it and they said they weren’t going to do it anymore. And I feel like they trust me. I feel like I handle it really well when they misbehave or whatever, so I don’t know why they’re lying.

I’m like, really? Are you sure you don’t know why? Give me an example. Now tell me a story about the last thing they lied about. They were gonna go to the library, then went to their boyfriend’s house instead, let’s just say, okay? And then I’m like, if it were really simple, the reason that she lied, what’s the reason?

Well, because I didn’t want her to go to her boyfriend’s house. I worry about when she goes and spends too much time over there and I want her to get her work done. And so she knew I was going to be upset or there was going to be a consequence or punishment of some sort if she went to her boyfriend’s house. That’s why she lied about it.

Yeah, it’s actually really simple. You know why people lie? Because they don’t want to deal with what would happen if they told the truth. The end.

So what do we do with that? I don’t know. You get to decide. You either just know that that’s why people lie and you stop being confused about it and then you choose who you want to be and what you want to do. Maybe you do want to enforce the consequence and you just know that’s the way of it, that they’re gonna try to lie at times, or you decide you don’t care enough about that, you would rather they tell you the truth, you would rather make a safe space to tell the truth and then you change who you’re being on the other side of it. I mean, either one you can play with, but my point is that spinning in this confusion, I don’t know why they lie, doesn’t work.

Sometimes it’s us that we’re confused about, right? Like this is so common that I’ll be coaching someone who will say something like, maybe it’s not their teenager lying, maybe it’s like, “Hey, my dad always says he’s going to do these things and then he never does. He doesn’t follow through on them. And recently he said to me, I can tell that you don’t trust me and I feel so bad. I want him to know I trust him.” I’m like, but you don’t trust him, right? Like, it would make sense that you don’t trust him if he has a history of saying he’s going to do something and then he doesn’t do it.

So we don’t need to make this complicated. I don’t know why I don’t trust my dad. No, The reason you don’t trust your dad is because your dad hasn’t behaved in a way that tells your brain it’s safe to trust him. It’s actually very simple. But we get confused and frustrated with ourselves and then we’re blaming ourselves and we’re judging others because we’ve overcomplicated what is actually really simple.

I see people do this too when they’re like, I don’t know why I can’t stop yelling at my kids. I don’t want to yell at them. I feel like that’s bad parenting, but I just don’t know why I can’t stop. I’m like, I do. Because when you ask them to do something, they ignore you. But when you yell, they do it. It’s really simple the reason why. We don’t need to complicate it.

And people think if we make it simple and obvious and we just admit the honest truth, then that means we’re never going to change our behavior. We’re never going to improve. We’re never going to get something different. And I find the opposite to be true. When you can just embrace the truth and not let it be complicated, not let it be confusing, then you have a reality in front of you that’s very simple and then you have many choices you can make on the other side of that. Don’t let it be complicated.

Last example I’ll mention here where I see people overcomplicate is again with how to when it comes to building your business. Remember I talked about we tend to simplify the results of the business. Like my business isn’t making any money. Like really? Say more. Okay, give me the details. Tell me the real story. But we complicate the how-to of the business.

Same thing we do with our health, right? We go, I just don’t know how to get clients. I just don’t know how to market my business. All of a sudden we’ve made it so complicated. I don’t know how to market my business. That does sound complicated. That sounds overwhelming. It sounds confusing. But what is marketing, by the way? And how do we do it?

It’s three simple steps. It’s finding people who want what you have to offer, giving them some help and inviting them to get more help. That’s all it is. It’s really simple actually. Don’t let your brain make it complicated. Your brain wants it to be complicated because then if we’re just confused and not sure where to begin, then we don’t have to begin at all. But that’s probably not going to get you what you want in the end.

So pay attention when you have dirty paint, especially confusion, judgment, or shame and guilt. So whether you’re judging others or judging yourself or you’re just very confused and overwhelmed, then you are likely simplifying something that’s actually very complicated or complicating something that’s actually very simple.

If you’re not sure which it is, and you’re in The Lab, you know you can send it in to us at Ask a Coach or you can bring it to our coaching calls. We can help you. And if you’re not in The Lab, come to a free coaching call and let’s give it a try and see if we can help you as well. You can go to jodymoore.com/freecoaching.

All right. Thanks for joining me today, everyone. I will see you next time. Have a beautiful rest of your week.

Oh wow, look at that. You made it to the end. Your time and attention is valuable, and I don’t take it lightly that you made it this far. In fact, it tells me you might be like me; insatiably curious about people and life and potential and connection. Maybe you have big dreams but a small budget and no time. You’re tired, but bored. You’re content, but dissatisfied. Sound familiar? Come to a free coaching call and see for yourself what’s possible: jodymoore.com/freecoaching to register. That’s jodymoore.com/freecoaching.

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The post 487. It’s Simple. It’s Complicated. appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Do you struggle with knowing what you want for your birthday? Does the thought of celebrating another year around the sun bring up complicated emotions? In this episode, I explore why birthdays can feel so loaded and share five strategies for navigating the big day with more ease and authenticity.

As I turn 50, I’m reflecting on what it means to honor my own desires while still considering the needs and expectations of my loved ones. I believe that birthdays offer a unique opportunity to reconnect with ourselves and practice telling the truth about what we really want – even if it goes against the grain.

Join me as I unpack the art of celebrating your birthday in a way that feels true to you. From figuring out your genuine preferences to communicating them clearly and letting go of perfectionism, I share my best tips for making your special day a reflection of who you are and what you value most.

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What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why it’s so challenging for many of us to know what we want, especially when it comes to our birthdays. * How comparing ourselves to others and ignoring our own needs can lead to a disconnection from our true desires. * The importance of considering your preferences before factoring in the wants and expectations of your loved ones. * Why telling the truth and assuming others are doing the same is the key to authentic relationships. * How to spend a moment connecting with yourself on your birthday through journaling, reflection, and dreaming.

Guess what day it is? It’s my birthday. I’m recording this episode on my actual 50th birthday. And I have some thoughts about how to celebrate your birthday and why birthdays are so complicated for some of us, especially as we get older, so emotional, try to play it cool, it brings up a lot of stuff. So today I want to talk to you about how to celebrate your birthday. This is episode 486, Better Than Happy. Let’s do it.

Well, that’s the question… what will you do? Let’s find out.

What’s happening, everybody? So I am recording this episode on my birthday, which is Halloween. I’m a Halloween baby. So you’re going to be getting it next week. It will be after my birthday, but I wanted to record it today when it’s my actual birthday and just give you some ideas about how to consider thinking about your birthday and how to make decisions about how to celebrate your birthday.

I know there’s some people who are of the opinion that birthdays are just another day on the calendar. It’s just a date. Why do we make a big deal out of it? And I would say, on the one hand, that’s true. If you don’t want to make a big deal of it, you absolutely don’t have to. If you do want to, great, I’m in for that too.

I think where we complicate things, especially as adults and as women and as mothers, is we let all the noise of should and what we think other people want and trying to manage other people’s opinions and feelings interfere with figuring out what we even want. And at the same time, I don’t think that what our loved ones want or need or expect is irrelevant information. I think there’s a reason why we want to consider that. So we’re going to sift through some of that today. I hope this will be helpful. This is how I think about birthdays.

First, quick story. I share my birthday with Halloween and with many of you. I love hearing from other Halloween babies. So that’s been to me kind of fun because there’s always something going on. It kind of feels like a special day. There’s always some kind of a party. It’s not a present holiday, so it doesn’t create weirdness when you’re a kid. And I’ve loved having my birthday for the most part on Halloween.

As a mom, of course, Halloween is a kid holiday for the most part, right? Like my kids like dressing up and even as they get older, Halloween is less fun, I guess you might say. And I love that about it. I love having just fun things to do with the kids. And also, if I want to have a day or a time when it feels like we’re celebrating me, I make sure I make that happen somewhere around my birthday, not necessarily on Halloween, maybe on a different day or a different night.

So I’m going to talk to you a little bit about that. But this morning, I just, this is what I was going to share with you. My daughter, who is almost nine, because I’m turning 50 today, she said, “Mom, you have another decade. You made it another decade.” I thought that was so cute. I’m like, “You’re right, I did. I made it to my fifth decade. Look at me doing it. I’m still alive. Good job, me.”

Okay, so I have five things I want to talk to you about today when it comes to considering how you want to celebrate your birthday and what to do on your birthday. And the first thing is that you have to figure out what you want. What do you want to do? Or what do you not want to do? What are your preferences or opinions?

Now, I say that you have to figure this out because it’s actually not easy. Have you noticed? Do you know what you want to do? I know so many people, and this is myself included at times, who when you ask, “What do you want to do?” The answer is, “I just don’t want to make a decision. Like, I don’t want to have to figure out what I want to do.” It’s so challenging for most of us to figure out what we want.

Now, my belief is that this comes from a disconnection with ourselves. If we’ve been ignoring what we want for a long time in the name of what everybody else wants, then we start to lose touch with our own desire, our own wants, or who we even are.

If we have guilt or shame or overwhelm or self-judgment that comes up in our lives at different times, which we all do to a certain extent, but if we have a lot of it, it blocks us from knowing ourselves because we don’t want to look at something that we find to be wrong or bad or disgusting or just less than in some way. And so we look away, right? We turn away as much as possible because it doesn’t feel good to judge ourselves. And eventually we stop knowing ourselves. We stop knowing what we want.

If we’ve done a lot of comparing of ourselves, when I say ourselves, I’m talking about the way your house looks, the way you do things, your processes, your routines, your money, your body and your health, your parenting, your marriage, your relationships, like all the things about you are up for grabs when it comes to comparing ourselves to others, right? Anything that we compare ourselves to others and then judge ourselves on, we’re going to lose touch with who we really are, what is our preference, what we like best, where we operate best, because we will try to hide it from ourselves because of how mean we are to ourselves.

Okay, so a birthday is just a tiny little example of this, and I don’t want you to feel bad if you notice it, that’s only gonna add to the problem. I just want you to notice if you don’t know what you like, what you prefer, what you desire, it may be that you’ve been pushing away your own desires, wants, needs for a long time. And it just might be an invitation. That’s all I’m saying. It might be an invitation to reconnect with who you are, what you like, okay?

So here’s the thing, whatever, and your birthday can be like a great first step, by the way. You can ask yourself basic things like, do I want to have a celebration of some sort? Do I want a “party”? Do I want to get together with family or friends, et cetera? And the answer might be, yes, that sounds fun. And then your brain might go, but that will be so much work. Who’s going to plan it? I don’t know if people will want to come. I don’t want to put people out. Like all of the nonsense that comes after that, don’t worry about that.

Just set it aside. We’re not making decisions yet. We’re not saying we are going to have a party. We’re just figuring out what we even want. Did you know that you can want things and not go pursue them? It’s okay to want things and choose not to go make them happen for various reasons, which we’ll talk about in just a minute. Okay? So yeah, you might, you might decide to make a party happen, but you also might not. Can you just know that you want it and let that be interesting and useful information?

And on the other hand, do you not want that? I know sometimes I have people judging themselves because they really want a big celebration and they think they shouldn’t want that, or they judge themselves because they don’t want to celebrate and do anything and the people around them are telling them that they should or that they’re trying to plan something and they feel bad, why do I not want this? What’s the matter with me?

Guess what? Nothing wrong with you. Nothing wrong with what you want or desire. It’s just interesting information and we wanna pay attention to it. We wanna keep a connection with that part of us. Okay?

Do you want a really delicious birthday cake or a delicious meal of some sort? Is there some kind of food that you want or do you not want that? Again, it’s totally okay. We have like traditions, right, in different cultures, depending on what culture you were raised in. You probably have traditions around birthdays when it comes to food and social gatherings and things. And my point is, it’s great if you want those things, and it’s also great if you don’t. Okay?

Do you want to go out somewhere? Does that sound fun to you? Do you wanna go out again, out to dinner, out with friends, out dancing, out whatever going out means to you. Do you want to talk to a lot of friends, like get phone calls on your birthday or call friends on your birthday? Do you want to hear from people? Do you want people to text you and wish you a happy birthday?

I got to tell you, I have this friend who I met through my sister and her family. They met this gentleman when they lived out in New York through their church, and he is a 49-year-old man who’s autistic.

And he loves his birthday, and he loves to get phone calls on his birthday. And so he happened to be here visiting my sister and her family, so we got to spend some time with him last summer when it was his 49th birthday. And he tells everyone, he first of all tells everyone his birthday when he first meets them and he asks your birthday. And then he, for weeks leading up to his birthday, texts everybody saying, don’t forget, my birthday is coming up on this day and you can call me anytime that day to wish me a happy birthday.

It was so awesome. I didn’t know him, I kind of had met him, but I didn’t know him very well until he came out here to visit. So it was literally like three or four days before his birthday when I first met him. And I still got a text from him the day before saying, “Don’t forget, tomorrow’s my birthday and you can call me anytime after 9am to wish me a happy birthday.” And I was like, great, I will definitely call you.

And I called him and he just earlier this week texted me saying, I know it’s your birthday on Thursday and I’d like to call you. What’s the best time to call you on your birthday? And sure enough, it is only 9:23 in the morning. I have gotten lots of nice text messages and one phone call and it’s from him, my friend from New York.

Anyway, If you want people to call you on your birthday, tell them to call you. This is what he does. When he was here, he had over 100 phone calls on his birthday because he counted them because that’s what he wants for his birthday.

Now, I know that’s like kind of a unique example, but my point is it’s okay to want whatever you want, and it’s even okay to decide that you’re going to make it happen in some way. Now notice I didn’t say, sit back and expect that everyone else will read your mind and they’ll make it happen for you. If they loved me, they would know this is what I want because this is what I want every year. That’s some nonsense if you have that thought, okay? They don’t know, they don’t remember, they don’t think like you think, and it doesn’t mean they don’t love you. All right?

So here’s what I want for my birthday that I’m going to make happen, but I’ll tell you why in part two, why you may not fully execute what you want, okay? But this is what I decided I wanted. I wanted to go for a hike with my sister, just so happens that also my daughter and her friend who’s visiting from out of town are gonna come with us. So that’s gonna be super fun. Then we’re gonna grab some breakfast or lunch.

And next week, I’m gonna go to lunch with some girlfriends from the area, some women that I kind of am just getting to know. That’s it. That’s what I want for my birthday. Okay. All right. So consider what you want. It can be anything really. Put it down on paper. And then we’re going to go to step two, which is to consider what your people want as well.

Notice I didn’t say consider what everybody wants in terms of your birthday, but your people, you know what I mean when I say your people? Who are the people whose opinions matter to you? I hope not everyone’s opinion matters to you. If it does, we’ve got some work to do. Come and see me. I will help you. That’s called people pleasing. It’s not going to serve you in the end. You’re not going to please all of them.

But your people, who are the people that are important to you? For example, my kids and husband. Their opinions matter to me. I care about what they want. It may be that my kids want to make me a big dinner, and I don’t really care about having a big dinner, but I care about letting my kids feel like they’re celebrating their mom in some way. And so maybe I would choose to have that big dinner that my kids make me. It’s a factor to consider.

Notice I didn’t say, do what they all want, right? If they have a desire that really conflicts with my own desire, I have a decision to make about what feels like the way I want to spend my birthday, the most important thing to do right now. Is it to give into what my kids and husband want, or is it to honor my own desires? I don’t know the answer to that.

But if you don’t even know your own desires to begin with, then most people just go along with what their kids and spouse want, and they haven’t even let themselves consciously make the decision. And then we start feeling manipulated and resentful and we become martyrs and that’s not healthy.

Okay, so it may be that you forgo what you want in the name of what you think your people want, or it may not. We just need to consider everything and notice we started with considering our own desires. Okay? But we take into account, what do our kids, what do our husbands, what do our friends?

Like for example, my friend from New York, the man I told you about earlier, who wanted to call me and wish me a happy birthday. I don’t really actually love talking on the phone. I don’t need to have a phone call on my birthday, but I know he does. And he loves to celebrate birthdays. And to him, the appropriate way to celebrate a birthday is with a phone call. And I know that that just, I don’t know, it’s like, I’m happy to do it, right? Even though it’s not exactly what I want and need.

So I’m not saying we only do what we want and need. I’m saying we consider all of it. You with me? Okay. Let’s go to number three. The third thing we do once we’ve considered what we want, we’ve considered what our people want, then we tell the truth. We tell the truth and this is my favorite part. Okay.

We just go ahead and assume that others are telling the truth as well. I just want to give you permission right now, because this is what I hear a lot of is, okay, I’m going to tell the truth to, let’s say my husband about, hey, this is what I really have decided I’d like to do on my birthday, or this is what I don’t want to do. I don’t want to have a family gathering, or I don’t want to go see these people or whatever. Okay. This is what I like. This is what I don’t want to do.

And the truth includes the part where I might say something like, I know that may hurt someone’s feelings and that’s not my intention. This just feels like how I wanna celebrate my birthday. Okay, but I do care about people’s feelings.

I hope everyone understands. That’s my truth. That’s my whole truth. But then I get to just assume that others are telling the truth because people tell me all the time like, “Well, they’ve said they want to do something to celebrate my birthday, but I’m pretty sure they’re just doing it to be nice. I don’t want to put anyone out. What if it’s actually inconvenient? Or what if when they asked me, ‘What would you like for your birthday?’ What if I say something that feels overwhelming to them that they don’t want to do?”

And I would say, yeah, what if? Like, well, then maybe they’ll do it, but they’ll be overwhelmed and I would feel bad if that were true. And I’m like, okay, this game where we try to read between the lines and somebody tells us something, but we go ahead and decide that they don’t really mean it is exhausting. So I don’t personally play that game. I just don’t have the energy to anymore.

Maybe it’s because I’ve gotten a little bit older. I’m just like, listen, if they’re not gonna tell me the truth, if they’re gonna pretend and people please and lie, that’s on them. Not that I wouldn’t say something if what was true for me was like, “I feel like maybe you’re just saying this, but you don’t really wanna do it, which is totally fine with me. I don’t want to put you out.” I can keep telling the truth all day long if I want to, but what I’m not going to do is play a game.

And I don’t very often even say that part. Because honestly, like, imagine someone saying that to you. Imagine if, let’s say your friend says, “Will you bake me a chocolate cake?” And in your mind, you’re like, “Oh, I don’t really have time that day to bake a chocolate cake, but I’m going to do it for my friend, but I’m kind of overwhelmed about it.” Okay. And your friend said to you, or even if you knew your friend was thinking like, “Gosh, I don’t think she really wants to do it. I feel bad that she’s doing it.” Wouldn’t you feel bad that she felt bad? And if she said that to you too? So listen, you don’t have to play those games.

I’m just giving you permission right now. If somebody says to me, like, for example, I’m kind of new to this area, right, where I live. We moved here the beginning of the summer. And so all the people that we’ve met here are so kind, and all these ladies I’ve met mostly through my church are being like so generous. They’re like, “Hey, we want to celebrate your birthday. What are you doing for your birthday?”

Now, again, they don’t really know me, right? So they’re really just being kind and polite. And I don’t mean that they don’t mean it. Like they’re nice. We’ve connected a little bit. I’m sure they do want to celebrate for me. But I don’t spend any time thinking about that because it’s too exhausting. I don’t know what they think. I don’t know how they feel. I don’t know if they’re just doing it to be nice. I’m just gonna accept it if I want it and turn it down if I don’t want it.

This one sweet friend of mine who I’ve gotten kind of close to here, she’s like, “We could do this or we could do that.” And she had all kinds of ideas and she’s like, “I don’t really know you that well. I don’t know what’s fun for you. Would you like to do a dinner on the beach? Would you like to have a bunch of ladies at a house and we, you know, hot tub and have food or we could, you know,” and I was like, “You know what? I think it would be really nice just to go to lunch one day. Like, let’s just get a smallish group or whoever wants to come is invited, but doesn’t need to be big. And we just go to lunch. That sounds really fun to me.” She’s like, “Great,” right?

So I’m telling her the truth. I’m assuming she’s telling me the truth, right? When she says, “I wanna do whatever you wanna do,” like, great, let’s do it. I’m not playing a weird game. And I don’t think that she is, but maybe she is. Sometimes I feel like maybe someone is, right, in my life. And I don’t have to try to guess or read between the lines. I just want to give you permission.

Tell the truth and assume that others are telling the truth as well. This is what makes for the best relationships. And I’ll tell you what, the more you tell the truth to other people, the more they see, oh, it’s safe to be honest and real. And that kind of authenticity is where true connection happens.

But it’s easier to tell the truth, right, when everything is kind of pleasant and simple, but can you tell the truth when it’s, hey, to be honest, I really don’t want that, that doesn’t sound fun to me, but I so appreciate you offering. Like, can you tell the truth in a way that isn’t people-pleasing? That’s when people realize, oh, this is the kind of person where it’s safe to tell the truth.

There is one, I’m just trying not to give names because I don’t want to talk about people on here, but there is another woman I’ve met through the Word who’s so good at telling the truth. I’m like, she’s my kind of people. Because I noticed that she tells the truth even if it kind of goes against from time to time what the group might be saying. And she’s still very kind about it, but it’s not always just agreeing with everyone and trying to be easygoing. And I’m like, yeah, she’s the kind of person I can be real with. It’s safe to be real. She can handle me being real. And I can tell because she is able to be real. Okay. Just saying. Tell the truth. Assume others are telling the truth as well.

Number four, don’t expect outside things to create your inside feelings. Okay, so here’s what I mean. I decided ahead of time, I want to go for a hike today and then go get brunch and next week do a lunch with some friends. I do not tell myself, yeah, that’s going to be great. I’m going to feel amazing on my birthday if we just do that. Doing that, yeah, sounds enjoyable to me. I’m sure I will enjoy it. But it doesn’t mean I won’t have a human brain with a bunch of human thoughts. Doing things, eating certain foods, even seeing certain people, having certain conversations, like you can plan your whole day and it doesn’t mean you won’t still be a human being with a human brain.

You might have some random thoughts that come up. You might have some self-judgment. You might have some judgment of others. You might have something unexpected happen in your day. Don’t make it be this day where you’re like, I’m just gonna feel so good that day because we’re gonna do A, B, and C, right? Outside things, including actions that we take, don’t create our inside feelings. We create our inside feelings with our inside thinking, not external actions or events or people, et cetera.

And so I just bring this up because on your birthday, you can first of all, generate the feelings you want if you want them by paying attention to your thinking, choosing how you’re going to think about any situation, intentionally focusing on some kind of thinking or stories or beliefs that serve you. And I’m all for you doing that if you want to, but you also can just notice and allow the feelings that come up. You don’t have to feel good to be doing it right. Did you know this? It’s not like, what’s my birthday? I’m supposed to feel good today. Maybe, but I kind of like to watch what happens in my brain.

I’m really fascinated with myself lately in terms of my thoughts about aging, getting older, and watching my kids get older, and my kids are starting to leave the house, and just noticing what’s coming up for me. Like, I think it’s really fascinating and I like to spend some time noticing it before I even go in and self-coach on it at times with a topic like this, because it’s not like an emergency. I don’t have like major anxiety or stress or something going on about it. I just have some interesting thoughts coming online about, I mean, you might call them like midlife crisis type thoughts a little bit.

And I think it’s so fascinating. I think it’s really interesting and I don’t wanna miss this part of my life. Yeah, I’m not gonna stay in like a negative space. I don’t wanna stay in a negative attitude about anything and I would describe like the midlife thoughts as somewhat negative, but I don’t wanna also hurry and get rid of them. I want to experience what is it like. And I don’t necessarily believe the thoughts. I know they’re just thoughts, but I’m fascinated by them.

And I think it’s kind of an interesting part of our human journey and human experience. And it’s a part that I heard a lot of people talk about before, so it’s not surprising, but it feels different than I thought it would feel. And in a way, it feels kind of like what I call clean pain. It feels like kind of just an appropriate way to move into the next phase of my life. And I think that’s the other reason I’m not in a hurry to change it.

So again, this can be true on your birthday as well. Like, do you have thoughts and emotions coming up about yourself or the fact that you’re another year older, or whatever else is coming up, it’s kind of interesting. So you also can just allow it and notice it. But if you want to feel a certain way, know that you’re going to most likely need to generate those feelings.

Okay, five, the final thing I wanna talk to you about today is on your birthday, I think it is a really good reminder or excuse or reason to just spend a moment with you. And that is the final thing I will be doing. I didn’t list that before, but that’s the final thing I want to do on my birthday is spend a moment connecting with me.

But I will say I do this regularly. This is not an unusual thing. I do this every day to a certain extent, but I’ll probably spend a few more minutes just because it’s my birthday. Just like when it’s my anniversary, I wanna connect with my husband, right? Even though I try to connect with my husband regularly, we are always working on that. We could always be better at it, but it’s a practice we try to implement to stay connected with each other. But on our anniversary, it’s kind of an excuse to connect a little bit deeper, like really make sure we set aside some time, really appreciate each other, maybe get each other a card or a gift or something, right?

And that’s how I think about myself on my birthday. How do you do that? Well, for me, it looks like journaling. I’m going to spend a few minutes talking to my own self in my journal. I like to talk to my past self. I like to thank her for things that she’s done. I like to acknowledge her.

I like to offer her lots of compassion and grace for the areas in which she fell short of which there are many and I like to remind her that I’m not mad at her and I don’t hold any grudges against her. In fact, I know that she was doing the best she could and that her best was awesome and really hooked me up in so many ways and also was pretty tragic and I hold no grudges against her. I just love her.

And I also like to talk to my future self and ask her for wisdom and advice. And I like to ask her what she needs me to be doing or thinking or focusing on right now that will help her. What is she going to need from me that I may not even be considering? And how does she want me to think about my current challenges and problems? What does she know that I don’t know? How do I get through or figure out some of the things I’m trying to figure out right now.? And what’s different in the future? What’s better and what’s harder? And what can I do right now to prepare for all of that?

So it’s connecting, it’s reflecting, it’s dreaming. And I like to do it in a journal, and that’s what I’ll be doing on my birthday. So in summary, how are you gonna celebrate your birthday? I recommend that you begin by figuring out what you want. Even if your birthday’s a long way away, maybe you need to start figuring out right now what you like, what you prefer, and giving yourself permission to want what you want and don’t want anything you don’t want even if everybody else would want it or thinks you should want it.

Number two, figure out what your people want. How do you know what they want? Well, you pay attention and maybe even ask them. Then you have to make decisions, right? You have to reconcile what feels like the right thing, the best way to spend your birthday.

Number three, tell the truth. Now you got to tell everybody the truth. By the way, they’re not going to read your mind. You got to tell them. You probably have to plan it too. You’re probably going to need to make the reservation or confirm with everyone that we’re leaving for the hike at 10:30 and we’re going to drive and I already have the map so I know how to get there.

Like just make it happen. Tell the truth and assume that others are telling the truth too. Don’t play games and try to read between the lines. If they offer to do something and you want to do it, take them up on it and say, thank you so much. That sounds amazing. Let’s do it.

Number four, don’t expect outside things to create inside feelings. Generate whatever feelings you want to have and/or allow for the feelings that are coming up and use it to just be curious about yourself.

And number five, spend a moment connecting with you. That’s how I’m gonna celebrate my birthday. How are you going to celebrate yours?

Thank you, by the way, for all of the sweet birthday messages. I’m getting them. I appreciate all of you and I will see you next week. Bye-bye.

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The post 486. How to Celebrate Your Birthday appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Do you ever feel like there’s an imbalance of power or responsibility in your marriage? Are you stuck in feelings of resentment, manipulation, or shame when it comes to money, sex, household duties, or raising children? If you’re operating from power plays, martyrdom, passive-aggression, or self-pity in your marriage, and you’re tired of the shaming and blaming cycle, this episode is for you.

While it may not be the picture of romance and fairy tales we’ve been sold, consciously dividing responsibilities and making joint decisions as equal partners is the foundation of a strong, modern marriage. In this episode, I share my observations and insights from coaching thousands of women on creating healthier dynamics in their homes and show you how approaching marriage as an equal partnership can lead to greater empowerment and peace.

Join me this week as I lay out some of the most common factors that contribute to a dynamic of inequality among genders in the home, and share practical examples of how approaching your marriage like a business can work with finances, intimacy, chores, and parenting.

Want free coaching? Join me for a complimentary coaching workshop by clicking here.

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What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Some of the most common factors that contribute to a dynamic of inequality in the home. * Why you should view your marriage as an equal partnership, like running a business together. * How to navigate money issues by understanding it’s “our” money. * The importance of owning your sexuality and desire rather than expecting your partner to fulfill you. * How my husband and I run an actual business together and how it translates to our personal lives. * Why household duties are equally valuable as earning an income, regardless of gender roles. * How to make parenting decisions jointly while respecting each other’s perspectives.

Mentioned on the Show: Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!* * Come check out The Lab! * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * 484. The Rise of Feminism in the LDS Church Part 2: Guest Expert Kara Loewentheil * Check out Natalie Clay’s Marriage Prep course * Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife

We’re talking about the rise of feminism in the LDS Church, and today’s episode is going to be filled with my own thoughts, insight, and observation. I’ve tried to preface this with two other episodes that demonstrate the way I coach around it, as well as bringing in a guest expert last week, Kara Loewentheil. But today’s podcast is a little bit more in my own head, again based on the literally tens of thousands of people I’ve coached who have mostly been women, the roadblocks I see that we need to work on, and specifically we’re going to focus on your home situation. Welcome to The Rise of Feminism in the LDS Church, Part 3, The Dynamics in Your Home.

Well, that’s the question… what will you do? Let’s find out.

Okay, everybody buckle up. It’s truth telling time. One of the things that I view as my responsibility as a coach is to tell people what I see as the reality, the truths that I see that they may not see in themselves. And from that place, I hope to empower you. All progress starts from the truth.

However, it is not my place to say what you should do with that truth. I know for myself, sometimes when I am either handed the truth, shown the truth, or I discover the truth, I still choose what are not always the most ideal patterns or behaviors. I don’t want you to expect perfection of yourself. But if we’re afraid to look at the truth because we think we have to change it, that doesn’t serve us either.

All right? So I’m going to point out what I see as some of the common problems in the home that are contributing to the dynamic of inequality amongst the genders. We all want to point to institutions and policies and society and socialization as the cause of these problems. And even if that’s true, in many cases, they are where we picked up our ideas about the roles of men and women and whether or not we should have equal power, decision-making authority, et cetera, in our lives.

In the end, if we don’t start with our own view of ourselves and others as well as in our homes where we have a lot of influence, then this changes that we hope to see happening I should say will not be long-lasting and impactful to us in our lifetime. We must be doing the work on a personal level as well, starting with ourselves and also translating into our relationships and the dynamics in our home. All right? So that’s what I’m gonna be talking about today, especially specifically the dynamic between a husband and wife or male and female partner.

So there are four areas I want to address. We’re going to talk about money. We’re going to talk about sex. We’re going to talk about household duties or responsibilities, and we’re going to talk about raising children. These are the four areas I probably coach on the most frequently and the four areas where I see that we have a lot of opportunity to evolve ourselves and the way we view both genders, frankly, in the relationship.

Okay, so for starters, I want you to think about your marriage, and I want you to think about this question, which is, why did you get married? And why are you still married? What is the purpose of marriage?

Now, if I’m taking a guess about what answers would come up if I had you here in front of me and you could raise your hand and answer it, my guess is some of you would say things like, well, we’ve been commanded to get married. If you’re a member of the LDS church anyway, part of the doctrine of our faith says that God wants us to be married. Okay, so maybe you were doing it to be obedient.

Okay, others of you would say that maybe you just were raised in a society where that was kind of expected and you always imagined that it would happen, so you just kind of went along with what seemed like the right path. All right, cool.

Maybe some of you would say that you fell in love with someone and you wanted to be with them forever and you couldn’t imagine not being with that person. And so it seemed like the logical next step to get married.

You also might say that you wanted to start a family and build a life with someone and have a partner that would be with you forever so that you weren’t lonely and that you had somebody to build a life with and maybe this is why you got married and maybe it’s a combination of all these reasons or maybe there are even reasons I didn’t consider but okay, I’m good with all of that.

What I want to recommend is that you think about this if you haven’t recently and it’s possible even that the reason you got married and the reason you stay married are different, right?

Because again, depending on how long you’ve been married, you’ve probably grown and evolved a little bit as a person, your relationship has changed, your partner has changed, and you may have some or completely different reasons for being married today than you did when you first got married.

That’s all good and fine, but what I want to offer is that many of us grew up watching movies and TV, and we still see this, right? Where romantic relationships are always highlighted when they are in the courtship phase or the new phase. And everything is exciting and dramatic and challenging, but also wonderful. And in fact, the pursuit of the relationship and whether or not that relationship is going to last, in and of itself, makes for a great story.

That often is the whole movie or the whole TV series, is what’s going on in this relationship and is it going to work out. It’s very exciting to our brains. It’s a really fun time, although it can also be a really challenging time, right? And that tends to be what’s highlighted. And once the relationship moves beyond that and the drama settles a little bit, there’s not the mystery or uncertainty or novelty anymore of this new situation, things get a little more boring and regular, then that part usually isn’t the main story in a movie or TV show because it’s not exciting. It’s not interesting. And at the same time, that’s the natural course of healthy relationships. They’re going to end up in that point.

And so my question is, once it gets to that point and knowing that it’s going to get to that point at some point or another, what is the purpose of getting married? Now, again, like I said in the beginning, if part of it to you is like a religious kind of following of counsel or guidance, okay, I’m okay with that, but I would like you to have another reason as well. Like, why do you think you’ve been commanded to do that then? Why does God want you to be married? And what purpose does it serve for you in this life?

And I will tell you that I found to be the most powerful reason for people to decide they’re gonna stay married is because it’s like a partnership in a business, right? Because we’re trying to run a life, we’re trying to figure out money and how to best leverage our time and how to maybe experience the world.

And maybe we want to raise a family. And there’s a lot of decisions and a lot of work to be done and a lot of figuring out. And it’s nice to have a partner in all that. As we grow our life, grow our family, grow ourselves, having a partner is kind of a cool thing and challenging, right?

Like if I’m gonna start a business and I’m gonna have to figure out marketing, I’m gonna have to figure out sales, and I’m gonna have to figure out distribution or whatever else is involved in that business, it might be useful and helpful to have a partner so that we can divide the responsibilities.

Each of us hopefully bring some different skills and experience and strengths so we can divide up work according to our strengths. And it’s somebody else to go through this experience with. It’s a sounding board to bounce ideas off of. Somebody to experience the highs and lows with you so that you feel less lonely, right? That is often why we go into a business partnership, not to mention we’re combining resources, both financial and like I said, skills and education.

And to me, that is also why we get married, right? Outside of any other existential reasons you might believe in, I think that it makes our life easier and better. Now, when I first suggest that to people, sometimes they have some resistance to that because it’s not very romantic. It’s not very exciting and dramatic like what we see in the movies. It sounds kind of robotic. It sounds kind of cold.

Okay, so I want to be clear that I’m not saying you wouldn’t want to maintain a really close friendship and love and connection with this person. That is ideal that you have that as well as much of the time as possible. But it is also because each of you are equal partners, you’ve equally invested in your lives, really, to this commitment.

So when people don’t approach their marriage from this sort of foundational level, we are equal partners trying to build a life together, then instead what happens is a lot of assumptions about the roles that one or the other should be playing and a lot of resentment when the person doesn’t fall into their role as planned. Okay?

So the tricky part about all this is most of us get married when we’re very young. We haven’t thought through any of this stuff at all, really. It’s kind of subconscious, right?

It’s been indoctrinated, socialized within us. And it’s not until we get older that we realize like, maybe I should have thought through this and maybe we should have communicated about this earlier. And that’s okay. It’s never too late to. But I do wish that in the LDS Church, we had a premarital preparation class, especially because of how young so many of our people get married. I think it would be really helpful.

I know my sister Natalie Clay does do a marriage prep class, and I just highly recommend that everybody go through something where you think through, what do I view as the responsibility of a spouse, of a husband or a wife? And what am I not sure about yet? And what do we need to discuss and make sure we’re on the same page about?

Go check out Natalie Clay if you want to learn about that marriage prep class, but even if you don’t do that, or you’ve been married many years and you didn’t do that, it’s never too late to stop and have some of these conversations, but you want to get clear first in your head that this is like a partnership.

And so if, again, if I were starting a business with someone, it doesn’t mean that we would both do everything. My partner might be really good at sales and maybe I’m really good at operations. And so we might divide the work up that way. I might do more of the operations, my partner does the sales, but in the end we are equal partners.

So there are times when we have discussions about what the sales strategy is going to look like, and we might disagree on it, and ultimately the sales department will execute it, but we both have a say and both of our opinions are valid and relevant because this is our business and whether or not sales works affects all of us. And same is true for operations, right? Ultimately, I’m responsible for it and I execute it, but my partner has a vested interest in the operations and equal say and both opinions are equally relevant and valued because we’re both invested in the success of this business. You see what I’m saying?

Okay, so let’s talk about money first of all. Listen, everybody shares the money. Okay? This is the most common scenario I see is that there’s a husband who works, sometimes it’s the wife who works, but mostly in the coaching I do, it’s the husband who works full time and the wife who either doesn’t work as much, doesn’t make as much money or isn’t working at all and is at home with the kids. And then the husband thinks that that’s his money, or the wife thinks that’s his money, I can tell because they talk about it that way, right?

The wife says stuff like, well, I’m going to need to ask him if I can have extra money for this thing that I want to do. Or he said, no, I can’t have money for that. Or sometimes the husband is not treating it that way, but the wife still has that assumption in her head. She’ll say things like, no, he’s, he’s totally generous, he views this as our money. He says that all the time, this is our money, but I just feel bad because he’s the one going to work earning the money.

Okay, so listen, if we run a business together, and again, let’s say my husband is the sales department, so he’s the one literally taking credit card numbers and selling whatever it is that we do. And I’m operations, so I execute, I create the product or deliver the product, let’s just say. I’m fulfillment maybe, we would call it. Then that doesn’t mean that I don’t get a paycheck and my spouse gets a paycheck and then a certain amount of money goes back into the business to build the business.

We both get paid for our duties and our responsibilities and then the business gets money or whatever else we do with the money. And it requires both of us to make this business succeed. If I don’t create and ship out the product, then the sales department has nothing to sell.

So we both have different responsibilities, but the money, just because it comes in through one department, is the business’s money, and then gets allocated according to the values that the business has assigned different roles, right? So whatever you’re doing in your marriage, whoever’s making money and somebody else is doing other things, that’s a common thing, right?

Somebody’s going to work making money, somebody else is taking the kids all over, driving the kids all over, maintaining the house, maybe grocery shopping, doing laundry, whatever other kind of work. It’s everybody’s money. So I don’t know how you want to set up your money situation, but if you have a spouse that doesn’t see it that way, or you don’t see it that way, you need to come to a free coaching call and let me coach you on this and or have some discussions with your spouse because this is the reality. I didn’t even make this up, right?

If you decided to get a divorce, then the state would say half the money is yours and half the money is your spouse’s. That’s the reality in the end, unless you have a prenup and you decided something different in advance.

So if you start viewing yourself as an equal partner, it doesn’t mean that you have to have separate bank accounts. It doesn’t mean that you can’t decide together again how you’re gonna manage the money together. It just means that you have equal decision-making power about what happens to that money.

I’m gonna tell you the way that works really well for my husband and I, especially if you’re engaged or, you know, more newly married and you haven’t quite figured it out yet. I don’t mean to say this is the only way or even the right way. It just took my husband and I a minute to figure out how to navigate money together because we hadn’t done that before until we got married and I was 30 years old when we got married, so was my husband.

So what we discovered worked really well was to have three bank accounts, okay? So we had our primary bank account where our paychecks got deposited. We were both working at the time when we got married and we’ve either both worked or just one or the other worked at different times. And either way, whoever’s working, the paycheck gets deposited into that main account. Now, both of us have oversight as to what’s happening in the account. We both log in and see the account. There’s nothing secretive going on here.

From there, each of us has an individual account that we just happen to label with our names. There’s Jake’s account and there’s Jody’s account, which we again both have oversight and access to. We just label them so that when we get online to our bank accounts, we can see what’s happening.

And from that main account, a certain amount gets put into Jake’s account and a certain amount gets put into my account. Now, what those amounts are comes from conversations that we’ve had. And this changes from time to time. Okay? So it depends on what the needs are of the family and who needs the funds, right?

Just like if I’m the marketing department in my business and maybe marketing is our biggest spend, maybe we spend a lot of money in marketing, then I need a bigger budget than a different department that’s not buying marketing, right? So we’re not just like, I get this much and you get this much. We’re like, what are you responsible for?

What are you, like, for example, I buy the groceries and my husband will pick up some groceries if I ask him to, but for the most part, I like to go and buy the groceries. It helps me with my meal planning and everything, because I like to do that part. That’s one of my responsibilities. So I get the grocery money in my account, right?

My husband, on the other hand, takes care of maintenance on the cars. If they need an oil change or they need whatever cars need, he takes care of that. So any budget that goes towards car maintenance would go into his account.

We also both have an amount in our accounts that is our own personal spending that we have jurisdiction over to do with as we please. My husband likes to buy things that I would never spend money on. I just don’t find them to be valuable or I’m not interested in them. And I buy many things that he would never spend money on.

Namely, he likes to buy surfboards and guitars. I like to buy clothes. He doesn’t understand why I need so many clothes. I don’t understand why he needs so many surfboards or so many guitars. As long as we stay within what we’ve agreed upon, this is your amount to spend as you please. This is my amount to spend what I please. Then it doesn’t matter. We can both have different spending habits within our own individual accounts.

There’s also differences in terms of your comfort level of how low that account gets, right? Some people are really comfortable with running the account down really low and knowing that a paycheck is gonna come the next week. Others like a cushion and what that cushion looks like varies from person to person. And so again, having those individual accounts where we understand, we’re both clear, we’ve communicated and agreed upon what comes out of those accounts.

Anything like my gas money, eating lunches out, going shopping, whatever, all comes out of my account and he has similar things that come out of his account, right, then neither of us touches that main account because that’s where all of our bills get paid from. That is where our mortgage gets paid. That’s where all of our other, you know, predictable, ongoing, reoccurring bills happen. And then we also have like savings accounts and investment accounts and things like that.

But when we first got married, we didn’t have much of those other accounts. We had just enough in our main account to pay our bills. And then we had allocated in our individual accounts what we needed and would have left over. And the extra spending, et cetera, wasn’t much. We were just getting by and that’s okay.

Still, having my own account and knowing I’m responsible for this money and so I need to manage it. If I really want to buy a new pair of shoes, I might buy some cheaper groceries. I might skimp a little on the groceries this month. We might eat macaroni and cheese a couple times for dinner, but I’m taking accountability for that money and that’s very empowering, right, and appropriate.

And likewise, my husband has money that he’s responsible for and accountable for and that is what I recommend. Now, as your money situation changes, maybe you start making more money, then you might need to reassess how much money goes in each person’s account or are we putting more into savings now? Are we going to invest some money? What’s going to happen to this extra money? But we discuss it together like equal partners, regardless of who’s making the money. This is what happens in the healthiest of marriages.

Now, again, if you have a partner that doesn’t see it this way, you need to be having a lot of conversations about why or why not. And most importantly, it has to begin with you understanding this in your own head, that your marriage is much like a business partnership when it comes to your money. I promise you this will set you free. It will allow you to stop trying to control your spouse and it will give you the ability to focus on the only thing you can control, which is yourself. Ultimately, you are responsible for your own finances.

So even if I decide, yeah, I like this arrangement where my husband’s gonna go to work and I’m gonna be at home with the kids, know that that’s a decision that you’ve made. It is not an obligation that you owe anybody and you can remake that decision anytime.

So if you don’t like the amount of money your spouse is making, sometimes I coach on this where women say, I want to be home with the kids, but I want him to make more money and he’s not ambitious or driven or he doesn’t know how to, or he hasn’t figured it out. If you want more money and your spouse isn’t on board with that, you need to figure out how to make more money. Okay? Your money situation is yours to own. Always stay empowered with it.

All right, let’s talk about sex. If you got little ones, you might want to turn this one off until or skip ahead a little bit. Okay. Not going to get graphic here, but I want to be clear again that everybody’s bodies are their own to own. Nobody owes anybody anything. Okay? One of the things I talk about a lot when we talk about marriage is that you are responsible for your own needs. Your spouse is not there to meet your needs.

This is where again, Hollywood and things have sort of sabotaged us because we’ve created this illusion that somebody else is going to complete me and take care of all my needs and then I’m going to feel whole and complete. And sometimes during the dating and courtship process, it kind of feels like that, but that doesn’t last. That’s not reality in the end, right? Each of us is responsible for our own needs. And whenever I teach that, the number one question I get is, what about sex?

If I want a monogamous marriage, I’m not going to go outside of my marriage, and my spouse and I have both agreed to that and have committed to that, then doesn’t that mean that my spouse needs to cooperate in a certain way in order for me to have that need met? Unfortunately, my friends, for those of you that are struggling in this situation, that is just not the way it works. That is not reality, okay?

So if you have a spouse that is not interested in sex or not as frequently as you would like it or whatever the situation may be, it’s still your responsibility to manage your own sexual desire. It is yours to own. What are you gonna do with that? I don’t know. Maybe you’re gonna have to live with the discomfort of it not being met. I don’t know. It’s up to you. But ultimately your spouse is not responsible for fulfilling you sexually.

Now, for those of you that are the lower desire partner, it is not wrong for your spouse to desire sex either. Okay? This is probably an area where I see a lot of resentment build up and it’s a really vicious loop that people get stuck in. So I just want to say, wherever you are, whichever partner you are in this loop, I know how challenging it is, okay? I have so much empathy for you because, again, I’ve coached on it a lot.

I know if you’re the higher desire partner, you feel rejected, right? When your spouse is not interested in sex. You make it mean that they don’t like you, that you’re not lovable, that you’re not good enough or something like that. Or at the very least you have this unmet need. And I know that’s challenging. I know it is.

At the same time, becoming resentful or grumpy or passive aggressive or manipulative, even though I know you’re not doing it consciously and intentionally, we do this subconsciously, unintentionally, but we become this version of us when we’re not getting what we want sometimes, right? And we think our spouse should be giving it to us. That is not hot. It’s not a turn on. It doesn’t make your spouse want to have sex with you more. It does the exact opposite.

It’s a total turn off because now it feels like even more of an obligation, even more of something that the person is supposed to do or has to do, which is the opposite of what is arousing to us sexually. And so you’re actually making the problem worse from this point.

And if you are the lower desire partner and you feel bad that you don’t want it more and you think that you should or you know that it’s part of a healthy marriage and you don’t want to deal with a grumpy spouse and you don’t want them to, you know, be passive aggressive with you and so maybe you just do it anyway and then it’s even more miserable. I have so much empathy for you. But the truth is people pleasing and placating and pretending doesn’t work either. It’s not going to help you reconnect with your own sexuality and your own desire. It’s just not. Okay?

So what is the solution? Gosh, this is like really go to Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife and take some of her classes. She’s the expert in this. I’ll just tell you from the coaching that I’ve done with higher desire partners, when they can get to a place in their heads of it’s okay. It really is.

Like there’s lots of ways for us to connect and this part doesn’t have to change or even get better for me to appreciate my spouse and myself and recognize that I am worthy and lovable and their lack of sexual desire has nothing to do with me. It has to do with them. And it’s okay. Maybe it’s uncomfortable. Maybe it’s not ideal, but it’s okay. It’s not terrible.

Like honestly, sometimes I’ll help people see this by saying, what if heaven forbid your spouse got in a terrible accident and they were physically injured and unable to have sexual intercourse with you, then would this be as painful? And the answer is always no. Like it would be uncomfortable, it’d be unfortunate, but because they wouldn’t be carrying around this resentment and this expectation that the person should be different, it would be much less painful, and they would suffer a lot less because of that.

So that’s where you ultimately wanna get your head as the higher desire partner. As the lower desire partner, your job is to work on being vulnerable and being vulnerable just means telling the truth and allowing your truth to be known.

And so what’s true for you right now is that you have very low sexual desire or that you don’t enjoy it at all, that it feels like an obligation, and you’re doing it out of resentment and guilt, or because you don’t want to deal with an unhappy spouse. And maybe what’s true for you is that you don’t want that. You want to reconnect with your own sexuality and desire, and you know that’s available somehow, but you don’t know how to get there and in the meanwhile you really just want to tell the truth.

That’s true vulnerability in the beginning, right? That’s what sex is actually. Like really good sex is vulnerability and that only comes from being real and authentic. So just start by speaking in a true, authentic way. Okay?

And then maybe the two of you, I’ve seen many couples decide to come to some kind of a compromise. And again, I’m going to go back to what I said in the beginning, which is stop trying to make this like a fairytale movie that isn’t even real. And let’s just be real about what we have right now and what we can work with. More like a “business partnership,” except in a business partnership, you’re not supposed to sleep with one another, I guess, if you’re not married, right? But let’s stay with me on my metaphor. You’re like married business partners, okay?

And so maybe it becomes something a lot less romantic like, I guess, Wednesday night. Let’s make Wednesday night the night that we have sex. And that way the higher desire partner knows not to ask any other night, it’s just going to be Wednesday nights or whatever frequency you decide. Okay. I just picked once a week because that’s what I’ve worked with a lot of couples on.

And the lower desire partner knows, okay, Wednesday’s going to be the day. So I’m going to try really hard to get my head in the right space, to think loving thoughts, to work on my own connection with my own body, with embodiment and being present and allowing pleasure and allowing myself to be vulnerable. And I’m going to work on that.

And it doesn’t mean that you’ll right away start enjoying it, but you’ll know Wednesday’s the day I need to try to get my head in the right space, or not overeat dinner, or whatever helps you to enjoy that experience more with your spouse. Okay, and just start from there, make it more transactional. That’s okay, there’s no shame in that. But we gotta start from the truth, and we gotta start from not trying to manipulate one another to get our needs met. Are you with me?

All right, that’s what I have to say about that topic. Let’s talk about household chores and duties and responsibilities. So there’s a lot of work that needs to happen to run a household, especially if there are lots of people, lots of kids living there. There’s cleaning and shopping and cooking and laundry and all the things that need to happen. And just like with the money, this is equal responsibility of both people, regardless of your gender.

It sounds ridiculous to me to have to say that out loud about any of these topics, but it’s the truth. Even if you know this logically, maybe your subconscious, like below the conscious level is subconscious, right? Maybe your subconscious still doesn’t see it this way. I think my subconscious still doesn’t really get it because I notice myself feel guilty if my husband has to make dinner two nights in a row, even though he’s perfectly willing to, he volunteers to all the time.

It’s not even necessarily a control thing. I mean, I do make dinner mostly because I like to make what I like and I have opinions about the right way to make dinner. Okay. So there’s some of that that comes into play, but I do think I also still have this socialization or conditioning in my head that says that’s my job because I’m the woman. And that if my husband does it a couple of days, then I feel bad.

That’s how I know I still have it because I feel bad that he had to do that, even though he doesn’t feel bad. Interesting to notice, right? So we’re just noticing and we’re just bringing up these stories and working on them in our own heads. But ultimately, again, we need to be having healthy conversations. Okay?

So the work that you’re doing at home, any of you who are doing the housework, maintaining the house or the home, the family dynamics, is valuable work. We pay people to do if we don’t have a spouse there to do it, right? If I’m not gonna clean my house and my husband or kids aren’t gonna clean the house, if no one’s gonna clean the house, I’m gonna pay somebody to clean my house.

If I’m not going to do the grocery shopping or the laundry, I’m gonna need to pay somebody, if no one in my family is, right? I’m gonna need to pay somebody and it’s worth it. Many people pay people to do these responsibilities because we value them enough to pay money for them. They are valuable. We all want these things done in our lives and it’s great to do it yourself. I’m not saying not to, I’m saying it’s valuable.

This is why the money is not just the person going to work earning it. The money is also, needs to be paid to you, you could say, for the work you’re doing at home. It’s valuable work. You have to understand that. Now, it’s also both people’s responsibility, even though you might choose to divide up the work differently, right?

You might agree, hey, I’m gonna be responsible for grocery shopping and making dinner, and maybe your spouse is gonna be responsible for something different, or maybe you’re gonna own all of it as your spouse goes to work. I’m okay with that, I just want you to make the choice consciously as though you have a business and you’re dividing up responsibilities, not just default to what you think is true based on gender or based on what your parents did or based on what you think your spouse wants.

Their opinion is of course very relevant and valid. They’re an equal partner as well, but we need to be having conversations both ways. We need to understand each other and we need to decide together like equal partners how this is going to go.

And once again, nobody is anybody else’s boss either. I see this happen a lot where instead of an equal partnership, somebody thinks that this is like a hierarchy. And so someone will say, hey, the house isn’t clean. What’s going on? As though the person at home cleaning house is the employee of the other person. That is not the case.

You are not anyone’s employee and you are also not anyone’s boss. If you are married and you are running a life together and you are running a family together, you are equal partners. Okay? You got to keep working on understanding this and having discussions with your spouse about this if necessary.

And then finally, when it comes to raising children, the same thing is true. You have shared responsibilities in raising your shared children. Okay, now this is one where I tend to see, in most cases, the woman tries to be the dominate one, and maybe the man likes that, or maybe he doesn’t, but often I’m coaching women who believe they know the right way to raise these kids and the spouse is not complying. And I say the same thing. You guys are equal partners in how you’re going to raise these kids.

So yes, your opinion is relevant and valid, but so is your spouse’s. And even though he or she may not be there with the kids all day, just like you’re not there making the money, doesn’t mean you don’t have equal say over the money. And they’re not there raising the kids during the day while they’re at work, doesn’t mean they don’t have equal say in how we’re gonna raise the kids. So either way, both parties have equally weighted opinions.

All right, now, what do we do when we disagree? Because this happens, right? All the time, especially with things like raising kids. Well, what if I disagree with my spouse and we can’t come to a compromise? Well that’s where again, some coaching is going to come in really handy. I highly recommend you have a coach or a therapist or somebody to help you work through it. But as long as you’re approaching it as equal partners, that’s what I really wanna emphasize here, okay?

So, it just so happens that my husband and I do run an actual business together too. So I’ll tell you what this looks like in our business and then how we translate that into our personal life. Is we pretty clearly defined what Jake’s responsibilities were in the business and what mine were. Okay, so I oversee all the coaching and the marketing. Those are my two departments that I’m responsible for. So any staff or outside help that we hire to help us in those areas reports up through me, and that’s my responsibility in my departments.

He oversees all of the web development, all the customer support, and the bookkeeping and financial part. Okay? So This doesn’t mean that we don’t have discussions with each other. I discuss with him marketing strategy and program creation and things like that. And he discusses with me customer support or maybe new technology we might wanna try out for the website or things like that. We discuss things and we both equally have valid opinions to bring to the table. But if we really can’t agree on it, then we defer to the person whose department it is to own.

Okay, so for example, if I really feel strongly about a marketing strategy and my husband doesn’t agree with it, I want to hear him out, I take his opinion into consideration, but ultimately I have the final say. And if he feels really strongly about something in customer support, He asks my opinion, but if we disagree, he has the final say. That is his department, right?

So maybe I really want my husband to take a promotion at work and he doesn’t want to, then I hope that he’ll be respectful enough to hear me out, and I know my opinion is valid, but ultimately, if he’s gonna be the one taking the new job or not, it’s his decision, right?

And let’s say with the kids, if I’m home with the kids all day, and he thinks that we should homeschool the kids, and I think they should go to public school, and if we homeschool them, I’m gonna be the one doing the homeschooling, then I get the final say, really. It’s my department that I’m “owning,” even though we both have a highly vested interest and opinion that’s relevant. You hear what I’m saying?

So this gets tricky and complicated with individual situations. I realize I don’t mean to say that this podcast is going to answer all those questions. I know it’s not. I know you have a million questions of scenarios that don’t fit so neatly into what I just told you. That is why I offer on occasion a free coaching call, free coaching workshop.

So I would invite you to come and join me and bring me your questions. You can also shoot questions into me on Instagram. Sometimes I take long breaks from Instagram for my own mental health and time management, but I try to get on there and answer questions. We also have the podcast hotline that you could call a question into, 1-888-HI-JODI-M. So there’s ways for you to get specific help on your individual questions, but I hope that this gives us a starting point of conversations that we can be having.

If in your marriage relationship, you are operating from a lot of resentment or power plays or manipulation or martyrdom, or maybe there’s passive aggression happening or just outright aggression or self-pity, or there’s lots of shame and blame cycles happening, then this is a topic worth exploring.

I recommend that you take a look at it first and foremost on your own, and then if your spouse is open, maybe you start having conversations together. Because when we understand the equality of our roles and the possibilities that can exist in a healthy marriage and in the dynamics in a home, we are going to create a better situation for ourselves today and for future generations. And that is work worth doing.

Thanks for joining me today, everyone. I’ll see you next time on another episode. Take care.

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The post 485. The Rise of Feminism in the LDS Church Part 3: Family Dynamics appeared first on Jody Moore.

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As women, we are often socialized to see ourselves in a certain way based on the messages we receive from society and our religious communities. These subtle (and not-so-subtle) influences shape our thoughts about our own capabilities, roles, and worth – often without us even realizing it.

Have you ever stopped to consider how the society we live in has impacted the way you think about yourself as a woman? For this series on the rise of feminism in the LDS church, I knew I needed to bring in some experts with more experience in this space than I have. The first person who came to my mind is my dear friend, New York Times Bestselling author, podcaster, and Master Certified Life Coach Kara Loewentheil.

Tune in this week for a fascinating discussion about becoming aware of societal influences, rethinking what it means to be a woman in the Church, and learning to embrace your own authority. Whether you consider yourself a feminist or not, this episode will challenge you to examine your own beliefs and empower you to create change in your life and community.

Want free coaching? Join me for a complimentary coaching workshop by clicking here.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why it’s important to talk to people who don’t share your point of view. * How to recognize the subtle ways gender roles and the patriarchy influence your thoughts. * Why taking on your own authority as a woman is a powerful form of personal growth. * How to contribute to positive change within your religious community. * The importance of doing your own internal work while also advocating for structural change. * Why anger is a valid emotion for women and how to process it in a healthy way. * How gender roles, stereotypes, and expectations are harmful to both women and men.

Mentioned on the Show: Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast! * Come check out The Lab! * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * Kara Loewentheil: Website | Instagram | Podcast * Take Back Your Brain: How a Sexist Society Gets in Your Head–and How to Get It Out by Kara Loewentheil * Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World* by Jo-Ann Finkelstein * The Life Coach School * Amy Morin * The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives – TV show * Moana – movie * 483. The Rise of Feminism in the LDS Church Part 1: Coaching Session

Welcome back to the podcast my friends. Boy, do I have a treat for you today. If you are not familiar with Kara, I cannot wait to introduce you to her. Not only is she brilliant and kind and a Master Coach, but she also has the best wit and humor. Every time I talk to Kara, I leave with my stomach hurting from laughing so hard. And this conversation was no different.

So when I decided to do a series on the rise of feminism in the LDS Church, I knew I needed to bring in some experts, some people who know more and have been working in this space longer than me. And the first person who came to my mind is my dear friend, Kara Loewentheil.

So Kara and I first met when we were both studying and working as coaches through The Life Coach School. We have a long history together, and we couldn’t be more different in many other ways, though. Kara and I come from different religious backgrounds, different socioeconomic situations, different education levels, let’s just say, with Kara being far above mine, and she is one of my most favorite people to learn from, and she really always challenges and expands my thinking. So I am so excited for you to learn from her and experience her personality as well. This is The Rise of Feminism, Part Two with Guest Expert, Kara Loewentheil.

Well, that’s the question… what will you do? Let’s find out.

—

Jody Moore: Hello, Kara Loewentheil.

Kara Loewentheil: Hello, Jody.

Jody: We’re acting official now, like we haven’t been just been chatting for 10 minutes.

Kara: We’ve already had like three laughing attacks and now we’re like, welcome to this podcast of professional women.

Jody: Very serious around here. Thank you for coming on the show again. I always love talking to you and I used to get to talk to you more and just due to life changes. I haven’t talked to you in a while and I wanted to just, I don’t even think I told you this part, but I secretly wanted to just get on a call and pick your brain about some things because you and I come from different enough backgrounds and have different enough viewpoints that talking to you is so helpful. It always just helps me formulate my own opinion because I know I need to talk to people that don’t just see the world the same way I do. Right.

Kara: Like I just said, it shows you that like your thoughts are thoughts. It’s like a very underappreciated reason for talking to people who don’t share your point of view is that it can be so helpful because your own brain is like, well, the way I think about this is obviously true, so what else am I supposed to think about this, right? And then someone else who really disagrees with you has a totally different thought in your brain, and if you can approach that with curiosity, it’s like, oh, whoa, there’s like a range of thoughts I could have about this.

Jody: Yeah, and there’s some people who disagree with me who I have a hard time hearing it from, but you are so just, well, obviously you’re a brilliant coach, so you know how to hold space for any belief system, but also even just as a person, I think that you’re just articulate and educated about your opinions. I just don’t ever feel like threatened or I don’t go on the defense when I talk to you about it. I’m like, oh, that is so fascinating. I never thought about that before. So anyway, I just appreciate, and I thought, wait, instead of me just having this private conversation with Kara, let’s get her on the podcast and let everybody benefit from it. So if you would do just a brief introduction for people that don’t know you.

Kara: Yeah, and I love that you, I mean, I appreciate that you said that, and I will say it’s due to coaching, because in my former life, I was much more, like, it was important to me that people agreed with what I was saying, and that they had the same thoughts I did, and that we were all on the political same page, blah, blah, blah. And in order to become a coach, I really had to let go of that. I did a lot of self-coaching around really what I call radical subjectivity, that there’s no way for me to prove truly that my thoughts are more true than anybody else’s. And so I feel like I am much more able to just be like, here’s how I see things. I’m like, take it or leave it.

That’s so peaceful for you too, right?

Kara: It’s better. People in my family say to me snarkily, well, I guess we can’t all be enlightened. And I’m like, well, I’m not enlightened…

Jody: I guess not.

Kara: Life is still 50-50. I should just start saying that. I guess not. Bummer for you, man. Sucks to be you. Yeah, it sucks. Sucks for you. Should try thought work. So my name is Kara Loewentheil, obviously. I am the founder of the School of New Feminist Thought and the host of the Un-F Your Brain podcast. I have learned not to curse on this podcast. And I’m the author of a book. The New York Times bestseller came out in May called Take Back Your Brain: How Sexist Society Gets in Your Head and How to Get It Out.

Jody: It’s so good, by the way. We’ll talk about the book, too.

Kara: Yes. And prior to all of this, before I became a coach eight years ago, I was an academic and a lawyer, and I worked on women’s rights and reproductive rights. And let me just say up front, since I know this podcast has a varied listenership and some of whom have very certain ideas about some of the terms I just said. When I talk about being feminist, and especially in my coaching practice, it is never about we have to have all the same opinions and you have to pass the orthodoxy, and like, instead of a coaching session, we’re actually making posters for a march.

I personally am also politically feminist, but that’s not actually what the coaching is about, and that’s not what this theoretical lens is about. As an intellectual project, what I do is bring an awareness to one of the impacts on how we think that I believe was sort of under-appreciated in the coaching world before I came to it, which is that in coaching, we spend a lot of time talking about evolution, evolutionary psychology and biology. And then in your coaching, you may spend a lot of time talking about your relationship with God and your faith as an impact and your culture.

And so we talk about our religious culture, we talk about our family origins, but we really were not talking about, well, when you grow up in a society, you learn certain things about what are people supposed to be like? What are men supposed to be like? What are women supposed to be like? What are the characteristics that matter in them? What makes them valuable or not? We get these different messages. And I think it would be silly to think that those, I just said I wasn’t being judgmental, but it’s hard for me to imagine that those don’t impact how we think about ourselves, right? What standards we hold ourselves to and how we evaluate ourselves.

So when I talk about feminist mindset or feminist coaching, I’m using this word, which I know can be kind of a trigger for people. It is not about we have to all have the same political opinions. It’s about looking at gender, even if you decide you like every belief you got about your gender and you want to keep them all. You just want to be aware that you got certain messages from society and look at how they might be showing up in your brain and are they serving you?

Jody: I love that. I do think that word feminism has been used in all kinds of ways and it’s a word that requires maybe a bit of like, what do we even mean by that? So thank you for explaining that. There is this movement and it’s not brand new, but it’s gained a lot of momentum for whatever reason, even just in the last year within the LDS community of women.

First of all, more women than ever leaving the Church, and I don’t know, like, I have my reasons why I believe that’s true, and I think some people would say, how do we know that’s really true? So I’ll just own that that’s my thought about it, but it seems to be a lot of people’s experience, and a lot of just kind of enough is enough from women both within the church and women leaving the church around this topic and around the unequal representation and authority given to women versus men.

I don’t know that the LDS Church, if we’re unique in that way, or if this is happening in general with traditional religion or Christian religions, I don’t know that. But there is some doctrine around certain, we call them priesthood keys, priesthood authority that goes to men and not women. But for the most part, that’s not even what women are upset about. Most women are not trying to challenge that.

It’s all the other things that happen that don’t disrupt the doctrine at all, if we were to change them, that seem, I don’t know, the more I notice it and the more it’s pointed out to me, the more ridiculous it even seems that we’ve lived this way for so long. And so I thought it would be cool to have a discussion with you and get your insight about some of these topics. I wanted to start with this idea of a feminist awakening because I’m curious to hear your thoughts on that. Is it real? Do you find for your clients that that’s a problematic way to think about it or is it useful? Let’s just talk about kind of that term in general, first of all.

Kara: Yeah, I think it’s absolutely a real thing that happens to people and probably it moves through the culture in different waves. And so maybe it moved through secular, non-religious culture, you know, the 60s and 70s for the first round, and maybe it’s now moving into more conservative religions.

It’s actually a fascinating question. I don’t know if – I’m Jewish, for instance, are Orthodox Jews seeing a similar rise? I don’t know. I would love to go on a podcast and find out. But I think, yes. So I think that when we, what is a feminist awakening? I think that that sounds very, I don’t know, grand or complicated, but that for many women what that means is just putting a name or language to things that they had always like subconsciously or half-consciously been aware of, but maybe had told themselves, well, that’s just the way things are, or like, that shouldn’t bother me, or, you know, that you kind of overlook when you’re 18, but then when you’re 38, now it’s been 20 years of this, right?

And so I find like, for sure, some women who come to me find me because they’re like, searching for feminist coaching and they’re already a feminist. And for them, the feminist awakening is really one of being like, oh, I didn’t realize how much I’d internalized some of these thoughts. I thought of myself as somebody who understood this stuff and was very politically aware and I wouldn’t have sexist thinking in my brain. And then realizing like, oh, all the ways I talk to myself that don’t seem political at all are actually part of this and are influenced by society.

And then some women come to me and no, I mean, I get messages from – I got a message once from one on Instagram who was like, I’m 18, I live in Nebraska in like a really conservative place. I had always thought feminists were like man-hating feminazis. And it wasn’t until you listened to your podcast that I was like, oh, this is actually about the fact that like why does the boys’ football team at my school get so much funding and like the girls’ soccer team gets nothing? Or like why is there a dress code for girls but not boys? Or like why are there more boys in the honor classes even though more girls are going to college?

It just gives voice to these sort of things we just noticed growing up, like who’s in the kitchen cleaning up and who gets to watch football after dinner? And who decides how the family’s gonna vote? Is that an equal conversation or does the father decide and then his wife has to go along with it? Who’s allowed to drive? All of those things. So I think it is a useful term, but if it’s a scary term to you, you don’t have to call it that. You can just call it starting to notice more things about what’s happening around me.

Jody: And I think what concerns me a little bit is that I see, like for me it’s more, oh, I didn’t even realize, and I’ll mention a couple things within the LDS culture, just because it might be helpful for us to have examples to play with. But for example, it used to always be like, we don’t have like a preacher or anyone that speaks every week, it’s just members of the congregation get asked to each take turns like giving a talk. And so there’s usually like two or three people giving a talk each Sunday. And the last speaker for years was always a man. And at one point, it was explained to me that, well, if there are women speaking, then this sounds so funny now when I say it out loud, but it just seemed so normal to me growing up…

Kara: That everyone will leave?

Jody: Well, no, that if the woman accidentally speaks too long, the man can modify his talk and go shorter. Or if she doesn’t speak long enough, he can compensate for that and speak longer. And so it was seen as like this kind of chivalrous thing. Like, go ahead, woman.

Kara: That’s such a hilarious explanation though, because why can’t a woman adjust her speaking also?

Jody: Okay, so it wasn’t until someone explained it to me that way that I was like, no, they’re just being polite. Like, go ahead, you go first, and then I’ll just do whatever’s necessary based on what time is left over. It’s like polite and courteous, right? But then, you know, it assumes, just like you said, it has this underlying message that a woman’s not capable, a man’s a more capable speaker or more capable of adjusting himself and then a woman probably will either go too long or too short.

Kara: Right, once a woman starts talking, who knows what she’s going to do, but she certainly can’t control it.

Jody: I mean, if it were me, I would for sure go long and I have.

Kara: Oh, me too. I’d be like, it’s okay, Bob, sit down. We’re not going to need to hear from you, I got this.

Jody: Exactly. But anyway, when I realized like, oh yeah, there are these underlying premises, and that’s just one tiny example, right? And that, by the way, is no longer the policy, women could speak whenever now. Like, we have made some progress. But there are many, many little things like that, that until someone points out to you, like, no, look at the premise of this is the sexist part that you realize, look at the premise of this is the sexist part that you realize, I never labeled it a feminist awakening by any means, but it is kind of.

It’s like, oh, yeah, I didn’t realize until I stop and think about it that actually any decision a woman makes within our church, like there are leadership roles that women have, Relief Society President, Young Women’s President, things like this, but ultimately, anything they do has to go through the approval of the bishopric or the stake presidency, which is always men. And so, ultimately, what you can do is subject to who is the man in charge and what does he feel comfortable with. And there are handbooks and policies that are supposed to follow, but, you know, in the end…

Kara: I don’t know that much about the church, but often, in a kind of system like that, it’s also interesting to look at, like, what areas are women allowed to be in charge of, right? So it’s like, women can be in charge of young women, but, like, women are never in charge of young men, but men can be in charge of everybody, right?

Jody: Right, that’s right.

Kara: Women can be in charge of women, men can be in charge of everybody, or women are in charge of like the charity work, but not like the money part, right? Or so sort of even within an institution, like, well, what are we communicating about what women are good at, what their skillset is, what their sort of natural, quote unquote, natural and appropriate like sphere of influence is.

Jody: Right, that’s right. And that is still very much the case. There’s a lot of that happening. And I love my church and we’re not here to bash it. I just think that the awareness of it all, right, it makes you, first of all, I am appreciative of it, and it’s a different experience for everybody, and I would imagine you see this. For some people, it really is like an angry breakdown of I can’t believe we’ve been living this way, and for me, I never felt that way about it. It’s more like, oh, that’s interesting. Okay, yeah, I guess I’m gonna have to raise my hand and speak up about this.

Kara: Right, or how does that show up in your life, right? So you might decide, yeah, I’m gonna stay in this religion, and I’m gonna live with this, then if you notice that you don’t think you’re good with money and you think your husband should make the financial decisions and you don’t trust yourself around money, it’s useful to look at it and see like, oh, well, maybe this is part of why I think this way and I need to decide for myself how I think about myself. So I think having this awareness doesn’t mean, yeah, you have to take a specific action or something like you or I don’t have an opinion about what religion somebody else should be.

But I think it’s just the reason this stuff is so important to me is, sure, a lot of my students are more maybe active or political, and a lot of them are not. But it’s just understanding that the way you think about it. The big message I think that a lot of my work is the way you think about yourself is not an accident, and it’s not actually really about you. It’s not personal to you. These women just grow up, and they don’t know that that’s what they’re observing, that their father handles the financial decisions. Their mother can keep the checkbook or has the household budget, but their father makes the big financial decisions or he’s the one who earns the money and she stays home or whatever. And they don’t connect that to the fact that they just have what seems like an organic true thought about themselves that’s like, I’m just not really good with money, or I don’t really get it, or I don’t really understand. Investing is too complicated, I just leave that to my husband. It’s just seeing those connections that you can change your thought about you, even if you’re not gonna change any of your thoughts about the church.

Jody: Yeah, that’s so good. So I wanted to get your thoughts on this because I really want to contribute in a positive way to, in this case, it’s the community of my church, but any community I’m in, right? Because I really do think that in most cases, it’s not a bunch of angry men trying to keep us down. They’re not even aware in most cases of how just entrenched it is. And like you Like you said, it’s how they view women and how they view themselves.

Kara: It’s totally unconscious. There are studies showing that if women speak 40% of the time, men will estimate that they spoke 60 to 70% of the time. I don’t think that those men are going to that room thinking women shouldn’t talk. It’s just so embedded. I’m married to a man. I love men. I have a father. I have brothers. It’s exactly as you say, but it’s so important. awareness doesn’t mean like all men are evil and terrible and consciously trying to keep you down. It’s that it’s so embedded into our culture, right? Like the belief that women talk too much. That’s so embedded into our culture that even a man who is very nice to his wives and his sisters and his colleagues and supports women and thinks they’re great, you know, will still have a skewed perception of what’s happening because those biases are so ingrained.

Jody: So how do we contribute to the evolution, if you will, of a community in this regard. Is it just pointing things out? Helping bring awareness to things?

Jody: I think that really depends on your kind of personality. You know, it’s like some people just have like different roles in a community. So for some, I don’t think it’s one size fits all, like some people are suited to and want to be the firebrand who’s gonna raise their hand in the meeting or is gonna show up and picket the whatever, they want to, I mean, those are two different levels of escalation, but there’s both, right?

So some people want to be out front and it is a political issue and they want to work on systemic reform of the church and they’re gonna be doing on-the-ground organizing and doing political action and whatever. And then some people want to, they don’t wanna do that, but they are willing to speak up in the meeting in a smaller setting, or they’re gonna advocate with their local bishop or whoever that they want to take on this traditionally role that usually goes to a man. And they’re willing to, they don’t wanna do something big in public, but they’re willing to argue in private about like, but why does it have to go to a man? So they’re willing to engage that way. Some people are probably gonna be theologians and they wanna look at the theology and have those debates like every religion has. And then some people, I think it’s just, how do you show up in your family, in your community.

When you listen to a friend of yours saying things to herself and to you about herself that you can see are so influenced by society, do you share that with her? Do you say, like, hey, I hear that you’re really beating yourself up because your body hasn’t bounced back after your fourth kid, and that’s an unrealistic ideal that society teaches us, and there’s nothing wrong with your body. There’s so many different points of intervention and ways to impact a community. And I don’t, obviously I don’t think everybody needs to like become a coach and start a podcast like us. Like if that’s what you want to do, then you should, but that’s not what everybody has to do. So it’s just like how you want to show up.

Jody: I like that. I like that. Like find what feels like the way that you want to contribute. And it might be in a more public way. It might be in more subtle ways.

Kara: And how are you parenting? You know, I just had a fascinating interview on my podcast with this woman, Joanne Finkelstein, who just wrote a book that came out in September. It’s about raising feminist girls basically, but she was talking about like, this is the thing about all this bias. It’s like so subtle, like that, you know, parents interrupt girls more, like without meaning to or thinking about it, right? They tend to interrupt girls more. They tend to give less credence to their concerns because we have such a stereotype of like women are complaining and they’re sensitive and they’re right, like they’re kind of fragile. And so we like intervene differently.

I had another psychologist in my podcast, Amy Morin, who talked about studies showing that parents use the word perfect more often with little girls and little boys when they’re praising them. And they’re more likely to praise girls for being kind, being nice, being obedient. And they’re more likely to praise boys for doing something new or interesting or taking a risk. They’re more likely to sweep in and rescue little girls if they’re about to make a mistake or fall. And boys are allowed to kind of do that.

So just start so young. None of these parents are thinking, they’re probably not thinking like a girl can’t scratch her knee, but the stuff builds on it and itself. And then what do you end up with? You end up with a lot of adult women who are very perfectionist, who think that what they need to do in life is be perfect, to be approved of and accepted and loved. And so, how are you parenting? How do you show up in your conversations with your kids? Your kid gets a crush and what do you tell her to look for?

Do you tell her, you know, I mean, a classic example is like telling girls that, oh, is a boy being mean to you? It’s because he likes you. Like, is that the message we want to be giving girls that like men who like you are mean to you? Like, that’s not right. Like, right. It’s funny when they’re six. It’s not funny if they’re 26. Like, that’s not what we want them growing up with. So it’s just like even just being more aware in your own interactions of like, how are these cliches playing out?

Jody: That’s so fascinating. What do you think about, like, if you have a client come to you who’s trying to decide whether or not to participate in a community like a religion or any other community, what are the things people should consider? Because I’m personally, you know, both of us, the kind of coaching we do is not to sway anybody one way or another, but to help them make the best decision for them. What are the things, because you can look at, especially religion, and we’re behind the times, let’s be honest, when it comes to this topic. Is it worth sticking around and what should people consider?

Kara: So it’s funny because I had a coaching call in my coaching community earlier today and I coached two different women about getting divorced and I actually think it’s like a very similar conversation. Yeah, it is. Because you’re in a relationship with the religion, with the church and the way you’re thinking about that relationship determines your choices. And most of the time when we’re unable to make a decision, it’s because we are asking ourselves the wrong question about the decision, right? We’re framing the decision the wrong way. And usually what we’re trying to do is figure out how to make the right decision. You know this as a coach, right? And like when we’re trying to make the quote-unquote right decision, we’re usually, if you ask someone how will you know if you made the right decision, what they say is, oh, I’ll feel X, Y, and Z, right? So it’s like, oh, my unmanaged mind in the future will produce this feeling and that will tell me I made the right decision.

Jody: And they think they’re going to feel good when you say that.

Kara: So it’s like, if I made the right one, I’m gonna feel whatever it is. One person might say peaceful, one person might say like happy, one person might say like empowered. Yeah, whatever it is. But it’s like, if I feel bad, that’ll mean I made the wrong decision. If I feel good, that’ll mean I made the right decision. So like, of course, the first thing is you’re gonna feel bad and good no matter what you decide. So that’s not how we make the decision.

Jody: Welcome to being a human.

Kara: Welcome to being a human. Welcome to having a human brain. And your brain can manufacture. I mean, one of the things I pointed out to someone today like you could get married or get divorced and your brain would say the exact same things which is like you made the wrong decision, you’re such an idiot, you shouldn’t have blah, blah, blah, right? So I’m belaboring this because like it’s so deep that we’re trying to make the right decision or like the rational decision. That’s what the other woman on the call said to me and I was like that’s not any more real than the right decision. So instead what I think you have to look at is what are my values and what do I want out of this relationship, right? So like in a relationship with a person. It’s like, okay, well, what are my values for a romantic relationship or a familial partnership? What are the values that I need this institution or structure to reflect? What are my values? How do they line up? How do I want to be treated?

Not because it causes my feelings, but because if one of my values is communication and collaboration, then if my partner insults me and doesn’t ask me before he sells our car, then it’s not reflecting my values. I’m still in charge of how I feel, but that treatment, that interaction doesn’t reflect the value I have that I want exhibited in my romantic relationships.

And I think that you can do that with a religion, like what are your values? I mean, I’m not an expert in religious decisions, so this is just what I use for everything. But like, what are your values? What is the role of that religion in your life? What do you want from a religion? Like most, you know, women aren’t socialized – you touched on this in the very beginning, you talked about authority. And this is a thing I coach on so much. And it was a client of mine who is still a member of the Church of Latter-day Saints. She’s less involved in some ways. She’s less faithful to all the obligations in some ways, but is still part of the church in her mind at least. Didn’t have a definitive, I’m leaving.

And working with her, we did so much work on the socialization around the idea that just women aren’t authorities. And what does it mean to be your own authority? And most women have never stopped and asked themselves that because nobody’s asked them that. Nobody said to them like, well, not just what do you owe to your religion, what do you owe to your community, but what do you want from your religion? What do you want from your community? Not in a like, I want all the money, or it’s not material. It’s like, this is a two-way relationship. What role is it supposed to fill in your life? So I think just asking yourself those questions, most people have not stopped to do that.

Jody: I like that reminder. It’s a two-way relationship. Like, and I think, and of course everybody’s different. That’s what’s hard. We’re trying to coach people that everybody has their own stuff going on, but like there’s on the one hand, some people need to stop and ask themselves, wait a second, what am I getting from this community? Am I getting what I need or want from it? And then the second thing is what do I want to contribute? And I like asking myself that way. What do I want to contribute? Because there’s like what I think I’m supposed to contribute, what I think they’re asking me to contribute, and none of that actually feels great to me, even though when I let myself ask what do I want to contribute, it ends up being like 90% of it is what they are asking of me, but I still have to back up from it and make it my own choice.

And then there is also like a 10% that maybe isn’t being asked, not that it’s not welcomed, but it’s me raising my hand. I’m not the person out there doing the research on theology or any of that, but I do, in just my own little church community, raise my hand every time I feel like, okay, I get where this comment’s coming from, but it’s jumped the track and it’s off, and I’m just gonna gently add my two cents worth, and that’s where I feel like I can make a contribution. And so, yeah, it is. They’re just valid questions to ask yourself. And I love your reminder, there’s not a right answer. It’s not going to be easy either way.

Kara: Yeah. And does your religion want what you have to communicate? So if you are somebody who’s like, what I have to communicate is innovative new ideas, and your religion is like, we’re not actually that interested in those, then maybe that’s a mismatch, right?

Jody: It’s a good one. We have the Moana song. Have you seen Moana?

Kara: No.

Jody: They’re like, who needs a new song? This old one’s all we need. They don’t want any new ideas.

Kara: And that’s fine though, and part of why people get so hung up on this, right, is that they feel like, but then in order to leave, I have to like demonize something, right? It would have to be like, it would have to be either it’s bad or I’m bad or, but no, our religion, a community, just like a person can just be like, maybe it’s not the right match for you or not in the current form. I mean, right, your relationship with God also is like not the same as your relationship with your religion.

And I’m often surprised by how many religious people are in my coaching community, but I coach on it all the time, right? Even though we don’t necessarily have the same beliefs and like those things get muddled up too. Like you’re really, you know, no matter, I mean, my belief is like it’s humans on Earth interpreting whatever that text or that scripture is.

Right, and like unless you believe in it, unless you believe that you have a literally in front of you physically immortal infallible person, what we’re dealing with is mortal, fallible people who are humans who are shaped by their society and their time and their own upbringing and all these other things. So it’s also like separating those things out. Like, okay, well, what’s my relationship with God? What’s my religion big picture? What is it like being in this specific religious community with this specific person at the head of this specific area? It’s like we get it anytime we’re at the all-or-nothing black or white, it becomes impossible to make a decision.

Jody: Yeah, that’s right. And I will selfishly just say, though, that I hope – like, there’s lots of women who think like I do in the church, but they’re all secretly going, no one thinks like I do. I’m like, no, yeah, there’s lots of us. In fact, please don’t leave. Stay with me. I like being around people who think like me in this community.

But anyway, I want to ask you this, too, because this was really fascinating. And as soon as it happened, I was like, I wonder what Kara would say about this. So just a couple women that I know personally who have like leadership roles in the church but are frustrated with the limitations of that or what have you and are very much aware of, let’s just say, how the patriarchy has influenced the way we run things.

And I do think that our church is trying to make some changes here. They’re aware of it. They’re trying to become aware. They’re trying to make some changes. And so one change, for example, was we have these men in leadership positions that will go speak at different congregations. And they were like, wait a second, why don’t we have the women also go speak to these different congregations, right?

Kara: Women can travel now.

Jody: Brilliant idea. Brilliant idea. Okay. So, and anyway, then some of these very same women who I’ve seen be very vocal and even emotional about this topic are suddenly were like, yeah, we would like you to go speak. And they’re like, oh, well, not me. No, no, no, I don’t want to be the one. And I’m seeing that more commonly than I even expected, where it’s like, yes, we want you to take the lead here. And they’re like, oh, no, no, not me. I’m just saying there should be women. And I’m like, well, who’s going to do it?

Kara: But that’s the authority thing, right? Women are not socialized to see themselves as authority figures and as leaders. The really simplified version of patriarchy is like, men lead, women follow, right? Men protect women and children. Women and children are dependents who need guidance and who need to be told what to do. And it’s not that long ago that that was the legal regime.

I mean, part of what I’m always trying to bring into the conversation is you have to look back more than 15 years. You have to look at what is the case historically and think about how hard it is to change a culture. It wasn’t until 1974 in the United States that in every state a woman could get a credit card without having a man have to co-sign with her. And it wasn’t until 1986, 83 or 86, but 1980 something, that a woman could get a business loan without a male co-signer in every state.

Jody: Wow.

Kara: Right? So it’s like just imagine me, I own a seven-figure business, I support my husband and my step kids, that I would have to take him down to the bank, my retired house husband who like worked for the government before me, to sign to be like, I’ll make sure this little lady pays her credit card bill, right? Like, that’s not that long ago, so.

Jody: It’s even in, we have made some progress at least, like even my husband and I were watching the original Karate Kid, the Ralph Macchio, right? And there’s this scene, he gets his car from Mr. Miyagi and he throws the keys to his girlfriend. He’s like, she’s like, you want me to drive? And he’s like, why not? It’s the 80s. So my husband and I joke to this day, like women can drive now. It’s the 80s. The 80s Wasn’t that long ago.

Kara: But my grandmother never drove. Oh my gosh. Only my grandfather drove. I actually, the funny thing, I drove everywhere by myself because I didn’t get married until a little later in life. And now that I’m married, I’m like a passenger princess because my husband likes to drive. But I actually sometimes drive just because my step kid’s mom doesn’t drive at all. She grew up in a city and didn’t need to. And so I’m like, I can’t have these children thinking that women can’t drive, so I have to like it. And the first time I did, my stepson was like, you can drive? And I was like, oh God, I gotta do this more often.

Jody: They let women drive now.

Kara: Right, but I think it is that same, it is really deep, powerful work to become…

Jody: Like you said, it’s so subtle.

Kara: Yeah, your own authority, like believing that you are a woman. have something worth saying, believing that you can trust yourself to say something that you can. I think one of the things that came up with the client that I was talking about who was a member of the church and was really struggling with authority was she didn’t want to take on authority both because she’d been socialized to think that it was for men, but also because she had seen some of the damage that authority figures can do, right? And especially in a patriarchy. And so she didn’t want, it was like I don’t want to be part of that, I don’t want to do any harm, I don’t want any power, you know?

And I think these things go hand in hand that women are socialized to believe that being good is the most important thing, being kind, never hurting anyone, because that lines up really nicely with having no power, right? Because you and I both know that if you’re going to have influence in the world and you’re going to do good, it’s like you’re going to break some, right? You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs. Obviously, you want to be careful, but in order to have a big impact in the world, in order to change things, you have to take on the possibility that you might also do harm.

Jody: You have to rock the boat a little.

Kara: Yeah. You have to rock the boat. You might hurt someone. You have to take on the possibility that you might also do harm. This is something I coach really deeply on with people who are active feminists and not at all who want to be coaches or want to be thought leaders or want to have a big impact on the world, the way women are socialized. It’s like, but I got to do that without ever doing it wrong or ever upsetting anyone, or ever hurting anyone or ever getting it wrong with a client or like I have to be perfect because we’ve seen through centuries like what happens to women who fail in the public eye like that’s been a cautionary tale.

So I think part of taking on our own authority is I have not said it this way before so I’m kind of thinking as I talk but now I’m going to do a podcast on it. It’s like moving away from goodness and like non-harm like niceness kind of as being your only metric for like if you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing. Because if it is, you’ll never be able to take on authority, right? What if you get up and give that speech and like someone’s upset? What if you hurt someone’s feelings? What if someone’s offended? What if, what if, what if, right?

So I’m not surprised you’re seeing that. And I really think it comes back to that like there’s also so much socialization for women to like not think too highly of yourself. Like as I was giving my little like who I am spiel. I was like, I forgot to say that I do it this way on purpose. There’s probably people listening being like, all right, you didn’t have to tell us you had a bestseller or anything. When women come on my podcast, I make them talk about their own accomplishments instead of me talking about them while they sit there demurely. Because you know men going on podcasts are like, I’m the author of the my self-published bestseller in my neighborhood, right? Right, right. We’re talking about that more than women who are New York Times bestsellers.

Jody: Yeah, yeah. So is it safe to say then that like, cause it’s easy to be like, yeah, this needs to change and that needs to change and point to all the things outside of us and those things do need to change, but also we have to be doing the internal work.

Kara: Yes, yes. I get this criticism from the other side, which is like people on the left or in the social justice world being like, you know, we have these big structural problems, like don’t make it individual people’s responsibility. It’s not, you know, a woman can’t change the pay gap with her thinking. And I’m like, okay, it’s actually both, we need both. Like, yes, we do need structural change. Like, it should not be legal to pay people a different amount for the same job based on their genitalia. And…

Jody: And.

Kara: And we do need the mindset piece because, exactly to your point, whoever changes the world, any hero you have, anybody who made a big spiritual revolution and reformation, anybody who made a political revolution or reformation, what happened was they looked at society And society was like, the way things are is great. This is how it should be. This is correct. We’ve got it right. And they were like, no, I don’t think so. This isn’t right. This isn’t fair. This isn’t just, this isn’t correct. This is, whether it’s not what God wants or not what humans deserve or like whatever, right? It came from society telling someone that this inequality or this whatever is okay. And that person being like, no, I don’t believe that. So I don’t know how people think you’re getting social change without changing your thinking. Somebody has to change their thinking, right?

Jody: Right, right, and see the vision of it. And I think the only, I guess for most people, I think what comes to mind too is like, then you have to get really angry, like you said, and villainize. And that’s not what you’re saying either. Like, again, people that make significant impact don’t usually approach it that way.

Kara: I think this is always an important thing to talk about because on the one hand, no, you don’t have to be angry. On the other hand, why is it so uncomfortable for women to be angry? Because we’re socialized that women shouldn’t be angry, right? When men get angry, if a man, like, someone looks at his wife and he gets so mad, he punches a wall, that’s like, he’s a strong, you know, he’s a hero, like, jealousy is love, he’s possessive, he’s strong, right? Like, so anger is sort of, and this is a great example of why we talk about feminism and patriarchy, like, it’s not good for men. either. You’re raising little boys, it’s not good for men to be told that anger is the only emotion they’re allowed to feel and that’s manly and everything else is weak, right?

And it’s not good for girls to be told that they can never have anger because that’s unladylike and that’s, you know, so it’s somewhere in the middle. I also don’t believe, you know, there’s some feminists would say that sort of like, it’s like women’s anger is sacred. And I’m like, well, it’s your amygdala. And like, sometimes it’s wrong. So from a coaching perspective, I don’t think that like all anger is sacred. But I also think that when our first response is like, oh, I don’t want to acknowledge some of what’s happening because I don’t want to be angry. It’s like, why is that? It’s just an emotion. It’ll come and go like any other emotion, right? And so I don’t want to sort of only be saying, no, you don’t have to get angry because I don’t want to be reinforcing this idea that like, well, women definitely shouldn’t be getting angry.

Jody: Just- Yeah, I agree.

Kara: I know you didn’t mean that. I just want to call it out because it’s such a common thing. Like.

Jody: Yeah, I do think in, in my family, I’ll just say that I tend to have a lot of like, kind of masculine attributes in terms of like my confidence level and things like that. And, and so do some of my girls and my husband is very sensitive and emotional. And so are my boys. And so the patriarchy, like, like when we say patriarchy, it’s what we’re talking about is like gender roles, predefined roles and all this. And it has hurt my boys as much as my girls.

Kara: Because you want all your kids to be able to go to school and like whatever emotion they’re having is fine. And no one’s saying to them, like, be a man, don’t cry.

Jody: And even within my own marriage in the beginning, I had a hard time. I remember at one time, even saying to a therapist, like, No, if my husband was mad, I feel like I could handle him being mad easier than him crying. And she was like…

Kara: Yeah, that is like socialization…

Jody: Because in my mind, like a man isn’t supposed to cry, that’s not attractive or masculine or whatever.

Kara: Attractive when a man has uncontrollable rage, that’s attractive.

Jody: Or I was just like, that would be better, at least right. And then then I, the therapist, luckily did say to me, like, well, it’s just seems like you’re more comfortable with the emotion of anger in a man than whatever the crying is representing, but actually it’s healthier for him to stay in a primary emotion than escalate into anger. And she basically said that’s on you. I was like, wait, what?

Kara: Yes, totally. And this is like such a thing, right? People want, I mean, that’s why when I talk about this, it’s not like, okay, we are, you know, feminists are enlightened and everybody else is still sexist. It’s like all, like I’m coaching, you know, successful, ambitious women being like, I can’t be attracted to a man unless he’s also ambitious. And I’m like, why not? Who’s gonna stay home? Who’s gonna let in the gardener if you’re always jetting off to the summit? I’m not saying you can’t both be ambitious if you really want that, but that’s patriarchy too. Why does your husband have to be six feet tall? Why does he have to make a certain amount of money? You make a lot of money. What do you need him to make the money for?

For me, we almost are coming around to what is the definition of feminism at the end, but it’s people being able to be who they are and have equal rights and opportunities regardless of their gender. There should be no differences or everybody should be like this. Yeah, it’s fine if you are in a heterosexual marriage and he’s gonna make money and you wanna stay home and blah, blah, blah. And then it’s also equally fine when it’s swapped and one of those shouldn’t be the default or expected or raise eyebrows if it’s the other way.

Jody: Yeah, I love it. So good. And turns out our theology supports all of this in the end. So maybe I’ll do another podcast on that another time.

Kara: But that’s such a good example, right? It’s like the people who wrote the radical theology in the beginning usually were kind of radical. And then it gets like, you know, institutions kind of like solidify and things get less and less radical as the religion, you know, continues.

Jody: Yeah. Kara, thank you for coming on today. You guys have to check out Kara’s book. She has the most brilliant mind. Take back your brain. Get it anywhere you get books. Yeah. What else do you want to? Tell people about? Your podcast is great too.

Kara: The audio book that I narrated.

Jody: Audio book, which is the only way, I can’t read books anymore, they have to be read to me.

Kara: Yes. I read the book to Jody and I’ll read it to all of you. Thank you. And we can tell everybody what, remember, so when Jody and I were both teaching Life Coach Certification, I had a class that was like 12…

Jody: All the Mormon women.

Kara: 12 Mormon women, one Planned Parenthood employee, and like one ex-Mormon. It was a great group. And the more, some of the girls went to Jody and they were like, Chakara seems smart, but she curses a lot. And Jody was like, it’s okay. She’s good people. So I’ll just say that about the book. I do curse in the book. I’m sorry.

Jody: Not that much.

Kara: Not that much. That’s true.

Jody: I feel like it was mild for you.

Kara: You have Jody’s word that I am still good people.

Jody: Oh, you know what, we decided, I decided that it is no longer appropriate for any of us to say, they’re not a member of our Church, but they’re still a good person. Like that could just be a given that you don’t have to be a member of our church to be good. Yeah, there is a little language in there. So if that bothers you, just be forewarned. Such a good book. Yeah. Before you go, have you been watching The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives?

Kara: I want to hear like all of your thoughts about this. I watched like one episode. And I don’t know, I think I thought it was gonna be a really fun documentary. And then it was a reality show. And I’m always like, about reality shows. But I am kind of fascinated. I mean, I think, like, yeah, I’m curious, like, what are your well.

Jody: I didn’t know what it was gonna be either. Exactly. But a friend of mine was like, no, it’s actually really entertaining. You have to watch it. And so I gave it two episodes. And then I just couldn’t take it. Like what kept coming to my mind was Abraham Hicks talking about you raising your vibration. I was like, this show is lowering my vibration.

Kara: I was like, this show is making me dumber.

Jody: Not even like I was offended or anything. I just was like, I can’t do it. I’m sorry. I feel dumber after watching this. But yeah, what I will say I appreciated about it is the title sort of implies, like you said, that it’s gonna be like a documentary about Mormon women. But the show I didn’t feel, and again, I only watched two episodes, but I didn’t feel like they were claiming to say, this is how LDS women live their lives. It was just more like, this is a story about some women who some of them claim to be somewhat loosely members of the church. And I think they have probably a really fascinating story to tell. So whatever. I will say this. I’m always open to anything that gives me an opportunity to talk about my faith with people. And it sort of has done that. It’s made people somewhat curious. So there’s good and bad in anything, you know.

Kara: Yeah, I was sort of thinking like, this is such a fascinating thing be like the breakout LDS show is to be like these women and like what is happening here. And just all of those like I mean I always love from the feminist perspective when there’s like a – when somebody is talking about a gender dynamic where the woman is like supposed to be more submissive but then like they’re out there making a national career like I think about this with Phyllis Schlafly all the time. Phyllis Schlafly was this was a politician and she campaigned against the Equal Rights Amendment very heavily. But like, she had a, her whole life was getting paid to give speeches while her husband stayed home, where she talked about how women should stay home. Right? And you’re just like, okay, what’s happening here? Like you do realize that you are out having a career while your husband stays home with the kids, but your career is telling other women they shouldn’t do that. Like what?

Jody: Yes. Oh my gosh, you’re right. That’s fascinating. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? We should make our own show, like the secret lives of life coaches. I feel like there.

Kara: Could be some kind of mind coach. It would be like they go to bed at 9 p.m. and do a lot of thought work. I got into, I talked to a producer for a TV show and she kept asking me these questions. And at the end, I got off and I told my PR person, I was like, I think I was too reasonable. And she was like, absolutely, that’s probably what happened.

Jody: I talked to someone too a long time ago about a TV show and he was like, well, it needs to be sensational. It needs to be really fascinating. And I was like, I’m not going to like fake it for TV. You’re not going to have a TV show.

Kara: What about coaches doing things therapists should do? Like I was supposed to say something like, you know, and of course, I’m like, Ms. Zachary, I’m like, well, you know, coaching and therapy are just different. They’re different words. And then there’s a spectrum and like some blah, blah, blah, you know, it was like, she’s like, snooze alert. I’m not into this.

Jody: She wanted you to say therapists are terrible. I can do anything they can do.

Kara: No one needs a therapist. Everyone should have a coach.

Jody: You want a prescription? All right, you won right now.

Kara: I have some Ritalin in my purse. Do you want it?

Jody: Dang it. I guess we’re not going to have a TV show.

Kara: Anytime soon. Oh, wow.

Jody: All right. I love you, Kara. Thanks for coming on.

Kara: Thanks for having me.

—

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The post 484. The Rise of Feminism in the LDS Church Part 2: Guest Expert Kara Loewentheil appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We are seeing a rise in feminism within the LDS community right now where more people have begun openly speaking about women’s issues, rights, and the impact of patriarchy. This has brought lots of emotions to the surface that have historically been shut down, and more than anything, there’s a heightened sense of confusion and unanswered questions that I believe must be addressed with openness and compassion.

When it comes to counteracting the patriarchal structure of our society, there’s a lot of change that has to happen at varying levels. However, I believe individual change is key to creating lasting impact, even as we work towards structural changes. We can all make shifts towards a brighter future without bringing pain from our past with us, and the coaching session you’re hearing this week is the perfect example.

Join me this week as my client and I explore what she really wants for her life and how she can make peace with her past, even when she feels like she’s wasted time and missed opportunities. I coach her through her feelings of resentment and disappointment about the path her life has taken, and how to reframe her perspective to go after a future full of possibility.

Want free coaching? Join me for a complimentary coaching workshop by clicking here.

If you’re wondering how to build a coaching business or are trying to take your coaching practice to the next level but don’t know where to start, my new free webinar, Three Components of a Successful Coaching Business is for you. We start October 21st 2024, so click here to register.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The importance of gaining awareness of your blind spots as they relate to the roles males and females have in our Heavenly Father’s plan. * Why it’s possible to make changes for the future without bringing in pain from your past. * How to reframe past choices as part of your necessary journey, even if you followed advice you no longer agree with. * Why your ambition and desire are a gift, and how to stop using them to beat yourself up. * How to open up to a future of possibility without knowing exactly what it will look like.

There’s a lot of talk about women’s issues and women’s rights and patriarchy within the LDS community right now. Maybe there are in lots of religious communities or other communities, but certainly within the LDS Church, it’s more than I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

There’s a lot of emotions coming to the surface that have been shut down for a long time. There’s a lot of anger that has been building up over time, and more than anything, there’s a lot of confusion and unanswered questions and there’s a lot of love and openness and compassion around this topic.

And it’s a topic I’ve been wanting to talk about for a while but I’m really cautious about it because I, first of all, know that I can’t do it justice, and second of all, know that there’s a potential to offend people, which is not my intention at all. But I don’t want to avoid it. I want to dive right in because it aligns with the work we’re doing here at Better Than Happy. So this is part one, The Rise of Feminism in the LDS Church.

This is Better Than Happy. I’m your coach, Jody Moore. And on this podcast, my objective, just so we’re clear, is to change what you’ve been taught and have likely believed about yourself up until now. Here’s what I believe about you. I believe that what you think is real is mostly imagined And what you imagine is actually creating what’s real. I believe that in the ways you desire to achieve, you 100% have the capacity to succeed.

And finally, I believe that joy, love, and miracles are your God given natural state of being. And any time you feel far from them, the way back is much simpler than you think, but that’s about to change. Are you ready? Let’s do this.

Hello everybody. Welcome to the podcast today. I’m so excited for this episode because I just got off a VIP coaching call in The Lab. So for people that have been there six months or longer, they get to come to a VIP call. This really amazing woman got coached and I, the whole time, kept thinking, everyone needs to hear this. So I asked her, with her permission, I’m gonna share the coaching session. We’re gonna keep her name anonymous to keep her privacy, but I’m so grateful that she’s willing to let me share it with all of you because coaching is really where I can demonstrate the transformations rather than just talk about them.

I wanna set this up by saying I’m gonna be doing multiple parts. I haven’t decided how many yet, but at least I know for next week, I recently interviewed Kara Loewentheil, who is my friend who works in the feminist space in a much more liberal way. She’s got an amazing book out. So I’ve got a great conversation we’re gonna be having next week with Kara on this topic. We’re including our discussion of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

If you wanna hear Kara’s thoughts on that. And she just has a lot of great insight. But today I wanted to play this coaching segment with you. And I’ll tell you why.

When it comes to counteracting the patriarchal structure of anything, but we’ll focus on the LDS Church here, of course there’s a lot of change that has to happen at varying levels. And we need people helping to educate and inform and influence on all levels. And the level where I am the most equipped and feel I can contribute the most is on the individual level.

So that’s not to say that I’m not a believer that we need structural change. We do. But again, where I feel like I can make the most impact is on the individual level. And without individual change and involvement, the structural change won’t have the same effect or it will take much, much longer to create the effect that we want to.

So what I mean by that is, let me just give a quick example. And I think Kara and I discussed this in our conversation next week, but I heard some chatter amongst women in the church saying things like, well, why is it that we have this group of men called the High Council, and why is it that they go speak to different congregations, like not necessarily just the congregation where they live, but they go visit other congregations or wards and speak? Why do they do that, but there are no women leaders who get asked to go visit different wards and speak?

And so this is something that is totally, apparently at the jurisdiction of the stake presidency, because I’ve seen stakes start to ask women leadership to go out and speak. And most of the time, what I hear the women saying is, oh, no, not me. I don’t wanna be the one to go speak. I don’t wanna be the one, you know, taking on this role.

And it’s because women don’t view themselves, even though they recognize like, no, we need to have equal representation and voices and authority and all that where appropriate in the church for women, they don’t view themselves as somebody that has something credible to offer or could be the one leading the way.

And so if we don’t do that individual work to evolve ourselves, to view ourselves as first of all, already having something really valuable to contribute and being worthy of the time and the space to share it and then having the confidence to do it or doing it even though we’re afraid and all of that, If we don’t do that work, it won’t matter that the structures have changed until many, many years down the road. Do you see what I’m saying?

So this is probably happening in more ways than you realize. I know I still have tons of blind spots in terms of my own lack of ability to see the equal roles that male and female have within our Heavenly Father’s plan, frankly. So we wanna just become aware of those blind spots. That’s how we evolve ourselves and that’s how we grow. And we also, I’m a believer personally in my life and with my clients in making changes towards the future without bringing a bunch of dirty pain from the past. And you don’t have to. You can even acknowledge that some of the things that happened in the past were not right, but not bring that like a heavy weight weighing you down into the future.

And I feel like this coaching session really helped us to highlight that in several different ways. So again, I’m gonna go ahead and play the session for you. This was on a VIP call in The Lab. So if you’re VIP in The Lab, you can go back and watch the video there. Otherwise, I hope that this really helps illustrate what I’m trying to teach you here. And if you ever decide you wanna get some free coaching or listen to more coaching like this, you are welcome to join me for a complimentary coaching workshop at jodymoore.com/freecoaching. All right, let’s go.

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Jody: Hi.

Anonymous: Hi, I was just running away from my preschooler.

Jody: Oh, perfect. Just hide from them. That’s what we do.

Anonymous: Yes, yes. They’re always, you know, excited to see what’s on my phone. So we’ll-

Jody: Are they? Oh, yeah. They’re all about phones, those little ones.

Anonymous: They do. Okay. I’m really excited to talk to you. Thank you. Been following for a long time. It’s definitely on the same lines, my question as what’s already been talked about, but I am having a lot of indecision about like what my dream life will be in like three years.

So I have my preschooler, he’s going to go to kindergarten next year. And so I’m trying to, like, think, what do I want my life to look like? And mostly, I just feel super resentful about, like, I had a lot of ambition when I was like a young adult. And I like, I didn’t pursue a lot of it so that I’d be like, more appealing. So I have this whole story of blaming the LDS culture for not pursuing my dream and instead of going to med school, doing other things. So now I’m in this kind of just mad that I only get a little bit of time and I should be excited about it, but I’m not. I just kind of-

Jody: Because I can tell you’re on death’s door just about.

Anonymous: Oh, I am. Oh yes. I am super old and I have two years left.

Jody: No, just notice your brain being like, now we don’t have much time left, but really you’re still a young adult, okay?

Anonymous: Well, kind of, like I’m like going through like perimenopause and there’s all this crazy stuff and I’m like, yes. I feel a lot of scarcity.

Jody: How old are you gonna be when you die?

Anonymous: 100, I like your idea. Like I’m just gonna be 100.

Jody: 100. How old are you right now?

Anonymous: I’m only 37.

Jody: Okay, so, if we look at a timeline, I like to look at it visually, okay? So, if you’re gonna die at 100, here’s birth, here’s 100 when you’re gonna die, you’re right about here, 37.

Anonymous: I got time, I could go do the stuff, right?

Jody: You’re saying now we only have a little time left because we wasted this time having babies.

Anonymous: And now my degree is like useless and no one would hire me.

Jody: All for nothing now.

Anonymous: And yes, all for nothing. Right. Yes. I definitely go to the extreme. And like, and it’s all everyone else’s fault and it’s all the.

Jody: Church and all the, it’s all that. Yeah, I’m in. The problem is how do you feel when you think all that?

Anonymous: Oh, I feel miserable and I have so much self-pity and I just like, want to cry. And then I’m like mad about the stuff. Like I know in my head, I have like so many great things in my life, but I’m not enjoying a lot of them because I’m like tied to them, you know?

Jody: So what if we try something here? I think that this is one of those examples where you have been given like a gift, which is some desire. And you say, when I was a young adult, I had all this passion and ambition. And I’m like, no, you still have that.

Anonymous: I don’t quite believe that. I feel like it’s been like anxiety out of me. I’m like, I want to do that, but I like have this like rock of anxiety about it.

Jody: Well, you definitely still have ambition and passion and desire. I don’t know what it’s for. It might not be for the same goals, but you do, or you wouldn’t be feeling this way. The reason you feel discontent with your life is because you have a lot of other ambition and passion and desire. But you’ve taken the gift of ambition and passion and desire and you’ve turned it into a poison that you’re like beating yourself with, instead of letting it be a gift. Like it is. You’ve turned it into, uh-oh, my life, I took, I picked the wrong path.

Anonymous: That’s really true. It’s actually kind of making me cry.

Jody: But you didn’t pick the wrong path.

Anonymous: There’s a lot of good things.

Jody: And it’s not too late. You do have to find a way, I think, to allow space for your own ambition and passion and desire. I think that you have so much potential and so much possibility, and you’re not allowing yourself any way to realize any of it.

And that’s why it’s slowly eating away at you. But you can do that at any time. We don’t have to go back and take a different degree program or change the past or any of that. And just like, oh, I see what’s happening here. I’m very capable and very driven and very curious and very passionate and very ambitious. And I haven’t been allowing any place in my life for that. But I can, I can start right now allowing it.

Anonymous: Yeah, I guess, yeah, that’s true. That’s true. It’s kind of, it’s kind of scary to think about it like that.

Jody: Why? Why is it scary?

Anonymous: Just because then I’ll have to like make sacrifices. And what if I fail? And what if my family hates me? I know it’s like totally extremes.

Jody: No, it’s all legitimate. Don’t judge your brain for what it’s, just trying to protect you. Even if it is extreme, it’s coming from something totally understandable and realistic, okay? So what if my family hates me? That’s what you said. What do you mean by that? What are we afraid of?

Anonymous: What if I sacrifice too much and then my family suffers and they blame me for it?I don’t want to be the reason of someone’s suffering, particularly my family.

Jody: When you say family, are you talking about your, like your kids? Do you have more than one? You have one child.

Anonymous: I have four kids.

Jody: You have four kids. Okay. Is that what you mean? Like if one of your children suffers or something or your husband or what do we mean when we say family?

Anonymous: Yeah, just that like my husband’s unhappy, my kids are unhappy, and I’m pursuing this dream. And then, like, I mean, and I know that like pursuing the dream, like doesn’t give me happiness. So I’m also like, what if I am also not happy, even though I’m pursuing a dream and like, fulfilling, like that part of me.

So I guess it’s kind of the core like what if I do this and then everyone’s miserable and right now most of my family is like most of my family is fine and like I don’t know…

Jody: Just you’re miserable.

Anonymous: Just me, yeah.

Jody: Listen it’s a valid question to ask yourself but I think we should explore the answer for a minute okay so first of all when you say sacrifices what would that look like? What kind of sacrifices are you going to have to make that might result in unhappy husband, unhappy kids.

Anonymous: Just that my time wouldn’t be spent on things for them. But that’s kind of what I do.

Jody: Now. Okay. So you might leave the home to do what?

Anonymous: I might, well, I’m a biological engineer. So like, I would go to like, a typical engineering job is like you go to work for 60 hours a week.

Jody: Okay, so if you had a job or something, for example, and you weren’t home so much because you went to work, right? Is that what you’re saying? That would be an example of a possible sacrifice, right? Okay.

Anonymous: But I wouldn’t be there when they got home from school or they wouldn’t be able to do extracurricular. I wouldn’t be there to like talk about the friends that hurt their feelings today, you know, mom stuff.

Jody: Okay, so first of all, let’s just be realistic about it. Like you would be there. It just wouldn’t be right when they got home from school. That would be bedtime, they would tell you about the friend thing. Like we’re not like choosing whether we’re going to get a job or we’re going to be a mom and abandon our family. Okay. Just keep it in check.

Keep that part in check. What we’re saying is they might have to wait a few hours to talk to me. They might have to get rides with the carpool I lined up for them. Like instead of going, they wouldn’t be able to do any sports and no activities and no one to talk to. No, I, they might have to ride with a friend’s mom to soccer practice instead of me. And yes, there would be sacrifices, but don’t overdramatize them for just a minute. Okay.

Now then your brain’s like, what if they’re unhappy? Okay. I want you to picture a scenario where your kids are like, I wish mom was here. Want to talk to her about this. And you come home fulfilled and excited and energized because you’re doing something that challenges your brain unless you use your education and your skills and all of that, your ambition.

Anonymous: I’d be a lot kinder. I wouldn’t be as impatient. I’d be like, okay, get to the part where I need to like solve something?

Jody: Hurry, what’s the problem?

Anonymous: That’s super loving when I say that. Right.

Jody: You would be a totally better mother. I know this from experience because I’ve been where you are in my own version of it. And I realized one day, okay, it’s true, brain, my kids might not like it, but I’m pretty sure my primary responsibility is my happiness, and their happiness is their responsibility. And I’ve got it backwards. I’m taking responsibility for theirs and totally neglecting mine, and then I’m unhappy with my life. And the truth is, sometimes they will be happy whether I’m home or at work, and sometimes they will be unhappy whether I’m at home or at work, because they’re responsible for their happiness. But I know for sure that I’m responsible for my happiness, which I’ve been highly neglecting, right?

Anonymous: Yeah.

Jody: So just be careful, because when your brain’s like, well, what if maybe I’m not there for them? And then they suddenly like, they feel, they’re like their mom’s not around to talk about the friend thing or whatever. And then, just play it out. Like hear your brain out.

I’m like, okay, tell me, what are we afraid of? What might happen? And then they might say, I wish my mom was there to talk about it. I’m like, yeah, okay. And then I would feel sad for a minute, but right now I’m miserable. And then the truth is it would be an opportunity for me to talk to my children. Are any of them girls?

Anonymous: Yeah.

Jody: Or even your sons, right? To be like, guess what? Moms have lives too. And every mom gets to choose her own life. And some moms choose that their life is that their home full-time with the kids. That’s a beautiful life. And other moms find that what they want their life to look like is being a mom and also having a job.

And it’s important that moms and women also, I hear you, patriarchy and all that, but why don’t we step up and do our part then? To say, guess what? It’s not just a woman’s job to run a household or the community and be the volunteers at school. It’s the whole community’s job. And this is what it should look like a healthy environment. And I’m so sorry I wasn’t there for you today when you got home from school, but I’m here now.

Anonymous: Yeah.No, that’s really true. Like I just need to prioritize more, like my own happiness.

Jody: Yeah. And the other thing, cause you kept bringing up, like, what if I’m unhappy even what if I don’t like it? Listen, half the time you’re going to to be happy and half the time you’re not. In the best case scenario. But right now you’re mostly miserable. It sounds like you’re miserable more than half the time. Because you have this gift that’s been given to you of this ambition and drive that you’re just like ignoring and it keeps like pounding on your skull a little bit.

Anonymous: Yeah, but I can’t even like visualize like how it could look.

Jody: I know.

Anonymous: And so I just need to kind of…

Jody: You just have to open the box.

Anonymous: But the box is making me so sad.

Jody: Why? What do you think when you look in there?

Anonymous: I’m disappointed.

Jody: But remember, you didn’t do any of it wrong. This is exactly what it was supposed to look like. Disappointment comes from thinking something’s gone wrong.

Anonymous: I had a hard time thinking that it didn’t go wrong.

Jody: Okay, why do you want to think it went wrong? Tell me the upside.

Anonymous: Cause then maybe I’ll prevent it. Like part of me is like, oh, then it won’t be like that for my daughter. Cause I’ll tell her it went wrong. But I don’t know if that would actually work if it’s someone else’s fault. You know?

Jody: Well, here’s what you’re doing right now. You have this thought, something went wrong and this is about your past, right? And whatever, whatever you heard at church or from family or whatever, right? And the decisions you made, and then you feel miserable. And so you’re frozen, you can’t even look in the box. I’m like, what’s in there? What are you excited about? What do you wanna explore? What’s your ambition? You’re like, I can’t even look in there.

Like, well, we’re certainly not gonna be open to finding ways to fit this in our life if we won’t even look at it. And you’re telling me the result is that you keep living the wrong life. I don’t mean it’s totally wrong. I mean, it’s incomplete.

Anonymous: No, I can, yeah. I hadn’t thought of that.

Jody: What I’m saying is what if we’re just like, nothing went wrong here. That was exactly the path. I was supposed to get married and have kids and not go to med school. And even if you wanna keep the idea that like you made those decisions because of counsel you were given that you don’t agree with anymore.

Anonymous: Yeah.

Jody: Is that kind of what I’m saying?

Anonymous: Yeah.

Jody: Which is fine. I’m with you. I’m like, oh, that counsel that I followed, I’d made some life choices based on, because at the time it sounded right, and I thought it was the right thing, and I wanted to be this person. And now in hindsight, I don’t think that was the right counsel, but I was totally supposed to receive the wrong counsel and follow it and end up where I am right now. How do I know that?

Anonymous: If this is where I am.

Jody: If that’s where I am. And as long as I think something went wrong, I have to keep spinning on the past in my mind, and dissecting it and being mad about it and trying to figure it out. But I’m done thinking about the past. The past is in the past. So I was supposed to get bad advice and follow that bad advice.

Anonymous: I hadn’t thought about that. That’s a lot lighter. I’m not taking full responsibility, because sometimes I’m like, I should have been smarter, I should have understood more.

Jody: No. Those sound like really lovely thoughts but they’re poison. That’s how you’re beating yourself up with your ambition and your awareness and your knowledge.

Anonymous: Yeah, that’s the way it was supposed to happen. And now I’ve learned a lot.

Jody: And I’ve learned a lot and you may not have discovered what you discovered had you not made those “bad” advice choices, but now you know, and there’s a lot of good that came out of it too, right?

Anonymous: That’s true. And it’s hard to see the good when I’m so wrapped up in, this is the wrong, this is the wrong.

Jody: And if you would have chosen med school or something different, right? We could be having this same conversation. And you could be like, now I’m a doctor and I’m so important and I make all this money and I’m very ambitious, but I’m kind of lonely and I don’t have, I kind of wanted to have children and I’m getting older. And I like, we could be having this different flavor of the same conversation, no matter what path you took.

So in the end, listen, life’s about choices and every choice has good and bad with it, pros and cons, okay? But even if, again, like I’m with you. I think some of the counsel I was given, I just don’t agree with it now. But that was totally the path I was supposed to go down.

And now what? Who am I going to be now? That’s all that really matters. What do you want to do in the future? Now we can look in the box. It’s not scary anymore. There’s a lot in there.

Anonymous: And it’s not one or the other. I think I get caught up in like either I I’m gone all day every day or I’m not and there’s – harder to find, you know different opportunities that I’ve never seen before. Like I don’t always know where to look but it’s not impossible.

Jody: No, it’s not and that’s the other thing is you have to give yourself permission to not know how. You don’t have to know how or what it’s gonna look like in order to believe, listen, there’s a way for me to live out my own ambition and be fulfilled and and help contribute in the world the way I want to and be challenged and be the kind of mom and wife I want to be to my family. There’s actually women that do it all the time. Do you know this? Yeah. Even engineers.

Anonymous: I wish I knew some of them personally, though.

Jody: I know but also like you just trust in the idea that it’s possible and you’re going to discover it, but you’re not going to discover it by focusing on what went wrong in the past. You’re only going to discover it by making peace with where you are and then opening up to a future.

Cause there’s clues everywhere. You’re just not seeing them. The reason you don’t know those people or see those people cause your brain doesn’t think that’s relevant to look for. It’s filtering it out right now. It’s looking for why your life went wrong and you can’t have what you want. But if you’re just like, hey, maybe I’ve been wrong about that all this time. Maybe my life went exactly how it’s supposed to and I can have everything I want. What?

And you’re suddenly gonna start to find that around you. Cause it’s everywhere. But your brain’s looking for, the eye sees what the mind looks for. Okay? I’m so excited for you.

Anonymous: Thanks.

Jody: You’re just getting started.

Anonymous: I got tons of time.

Jody: You do.

Anonymous: Would you say like the first step is just to like, start writing? Because I, like, what would be my first step? Writing down things that sound fun? Or like…

Jody: That’s a good step. Start journaling what i really really really really really want is, and when your brain’s like that’s not possible that doesn’t exist you can’t have that you’re too old there’s not time that like just ignore that part be like i know we’re just living in dreamland okay?

And then start exploring it in your mind but also exploring it in the real world get on the internet start reaching out to people, start looking at things online, start talking to people in whatever, engineers, if that’s of interest to you, start looking in the real world, but from the belief that it’s possible to find.

Because you’ll find it. It’ll be hard to find, it will be. And if you don’t believe it’s possible, you’ll just try two or three things and then you’ll give up. But if you’re like, no, I know it’s possible, you’ll keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going until you find it.

Anonymous: And I got time, I got a lot of time.

Jody: You got tons of time.

Anonymous: Yeah, well, thank you, Jody.

Jody: Okay, you’re welcome, take care.

Anonymous: You too.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in The Lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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Have you ever felt like you just don’t fit in? Whether it’s with your church community, other parents at school, or even your own family and friends, not fitting in can be an uncomfortable and isolating experience. But what if I told you that not fitting in is actually a valuable skill to master?

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I had a lot of practice not fitting in, especially as a teenager. I believe having the opportunity to get comfortable with not fitting in has helped me grow and evolve in ways I could never have imagined, and this week, I show you how the desire to fit in might be holding you back from achieving your full potential.

Listen in this week to hear why our brains are wired to seek belonging, and how to grow your capacity for being the odd one out. You’ll learn why you don’t need other people to approve of or even like you, what happens when you figure out who you authentically are, and how to start nurturing your higher brain as you practice being okay with not fitting in.

If you want to learn how to hold yourself accountable and enjoy being with yourself, you have to come to my free webinar, How to Be Your Own Best Friend! It’s happening on October 16th 2024 so click here to find out more and register.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why our brains are wired to seek belonging and how it can hold us back. * The importance of nurturing your prefrontal cortex and how to start. * Why you don’t need everyone’s approval to survive and thrive. * What happens when you compromise your authenticity to fit in. * Why other people’s opinions of you are irrelevant. * One powerful question to ask yourself when you feel the desire to fit in.

Do you ever just feel like you don’t fit in? Maybe it’s with the people you go to church with. Maybe it’s with the other parents at school pickup. Maybe it’s with your peers or coworkers or colleagues. Maybe they are a group of friends or even family members who you used to fit in with, but now you’ve evolved or made some changes in your life or achieved some goals, and suddenly you find that you don’t fit in anymore.

Your brain won’t like this if you have a healthy, normal human brain, but the good news is it’s not only okay to not fit in. It’s a really useful skill to learn how to master because the desire to fit in holds most people back from becoming what they’re really capable of becoming. And today I’m going to teach you what to do when you don’t fit in. This is episode 482. Here we go.

Hello, world. Hello, podcast land. Hello, my friends. Thanks for tuning in today. I’m talking about this topic because it has come up maybe four or five times in the last two weeks. I always pay attention when that happens, and I do a podcast on it if I feel like I have something useful to add to the topic at hand.

So we’re going to talk about what to do when you don’t fit in, how to not fit in. A lot of times we think that we need to learn how to fit in, but I want to teach you how to not fit in and when that’s an appropriate strategy to pursue.

So before we do that, there are a couple of free webinars happening, free workshops, whatever you want to call them, webinar, workshop, I don’t know. We’re going to log into Zoom together, and I’m going to teach you and guide you and coach you through a couple of topics.

And they’re completely free, and it’s the last time we’re going to be doing free workshops like this, this year, because I want to really spend a lot of time with my peeps in The Lab. I’ve got several exciting things that we’re focusing on for the remainder of 2024. I need to be very available to them. And you know, it’s going to be the holidays, going to want to spend time with kids and all that as well.

So anyway, the first webinar that we are doing is called How to Be Your Own Best Friend. And this is probably something that everybody should attend. I’m calling it be your own best friend because I want you to learn how to be nice to yourself, how to be confident, how to enjoy being with yourself.

But I also want you to learn how to tell yourself the truth and have high expectations of yourself and hold yourself accountable. So all of that’s going to be included in How to Be Your Own Best Friend. You can register for that at jodymoore.com/friend.

And then the second one we’re doing is really just for people trying to build coaching businesses or trying to take their coaching businesses to the next level or who have thought about getting their coaching business going, but aren’t sure where to begin.

And it is called the Three Components of a Successful Coaching Business. There are three things that you must have and only three, actually, that you really need to make up to a million dollars in your coaching business. Once you get to a million dollars and you’re ready to scale beyond that, you’re gonna need other things. But you only need three. If you’re anywhere between zero and a million dollars, I promise. And I’m gonna tell you exactly what they are and how to get them set up so that you can make the impact you want to as a coach.

So you would head to jodymoore.com/success if you’re a coach who wants to come to that free class. Both of these are happening in October. I will let you go to the links and just find the details.

So again, jodymoore.com/friend for How to Be Your Own Best Friend, jodymoore.com/success if you’re a coach and you want help with your business.

Okay. So, truth time, I have a lot of practice not fitting in. I’ve spent a good portion of my life not fitting in. And as I was making notes for this episode, I asked myself, I wonder if that’s really, I mean, that’s just my thought, right? I’ve spent a lot of time not fitting in.

But what I was thinking is, I wonder if it’s really true if like, have I not fit in more than, say the average person, or do most people feel like they’ve spent most of their lives not fitting in because we’re sort of hyper-focused on wanting to fit in? I don’t know the answer to that.

But I’m really grateful, actually, that I had opportunities to not fit in. Some people have had much more challenging situations of not fitting in. Like there are people who have experienced racism, I haven’t been at the effects of racism when it comes to not fitting in. Like, I haven’t been fearful for my life or my safety.

I have not struggled with extreme poverty at any time in my life. And that’s a version of not fitting in that is, I think, a primal sort of survival-based fear, right?

I don’t wanna downplay how simple and easy overall my life has been, but growing up as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which was formerly known as the Mormon Church, maybe more commonly known to many as the Mormon Church, I was an odd child.

I grew up in Spokane, Washington. There weren’t a lot of kids who were members of my church that I went to school with. And so that made me really weird, especially as I got to be a teenager.

As a young girl, really the only time it kind of came up was when people wanted to do things on Sunday, and we don’t do a lot of things on Sunday that other people do in the name of observing the Sabbath day. And so at times I had to say, oh, I can’t come to your birthday party on Sunday, or I can’t play on Sunday, or what have you. But it really, really landed more when I was a teenager.

And as a teenager in high school, my friends now were all starting to experiment with all the things that teenagers often do. Drinking and drugs and smoking was a thing when I was a kid. We weren’t vaping back then, we were smoking.

They were smoking, I should say, I wasn’t. Little bit of marijuana here and there and a lot of, you know, promiscuity and whatever else. I don’t know exactly what was going on, but stuff that I was not supposed to participate in.

So this made me weird, right? This made me different. This made me not fit in. This brought up all kinds of questions. Wait a second, you’re not gonna drink? Like not ever? Have you ever had a drink? Are you ever going to have a drink?

Now that went on all the way through my corporate career. The whole fascination and mind blown, I can’t believe you don’t drink alcohol thing was an ongoing thing. Now that I’m not working in corporate, I’m not really exposed very much to it, but it’s definitely still out there in the world, right?

I’m really glad, like I said, that I had that opportunity because I had a lot of practice not fitting in. And I have experiences that I can draw from now when there are other areas of my life where I find I’m not fitting in.

And maybe you can relate to this. Like I said, this has come up several times in the last couple of weeks. I was listening to a coaching call where a woman who is a member of the Islamic faith was saying how she really honors her faith and she really wants to follow the guidelines that she feels are appropriate in terms of how she dresses and how she lives her life.

And that members of her own family who claim to be of the same faith don’t follow it as strictly and they are sort of annoyed by her or just questioning why are you so strict about it? Why are you so over the top? Why don’t you just relax and loosen up, right?

So sometimes it looks like that. It looks like us really wanting to go all in on something like a religion or a faith. Other times, again, I coach a lot of people or talk to a lot of people who are members of my own faith and say things like, I just don’t think I fit in there because I just don’t believe all of it or there’s certain parts I don’t feel like I want to implement in my daily life, in my routine.

You know, I’m just not like them. I don’t fit in there. So definitely something like religion that has lots of lifestyle recommendations for us gives us an opportunity one way or another to not fit in, right?

Another time I see this happen a lot is when somebody changes one of their habits. This is common with food, right? Maybe overeating, let’s just say, or eating foods that aren’t really serving your long-term health goals.

And if you decide to make a change, then suddenly there’s gonna be times when you maybe don’t fit in. And people are gonna notice, right? And they may say things like, wait a second, what do you mean you’re not eating dessert? You don’t eat dessert anymore? And they may feel uncomfortable. And then they start saying things like, oh, sorry, I shouldn’t be eating this in front of you. Or, oh yeah, you’re right, I shouldn’t be eating this either.

Now they’re feeling like their own guilt and shame. And you’re just sitting there trying to follow your eating protocol. You’re not trying to judge anyone. But they’re turning it into this big dramatic thing, right? I see that happen really frequently.

Maybe you – this is something that I experienced also when I was a young mom and I first started having kids, is I worked full-time. I worked in corporate. And most of the other women that I knew at the time, my friends my age that were also having kids, they were stay-at-home moms.

And I remember just feeling like, oh my gosh, I don’t fit in with these people. And sometimes I was sad about that. Like, I was sad to be missing out on going to story time at the library or taking our little kids out for a play date or down to the beach or to the park or whatever. I was living in Huntington Beach at the time.

And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I’m missing out on something here and I don’t fit in and they have all these stories and experiences that I’m not a part of.

And other times I felt like, ah, I just wish I had like someone I could talk to who has, you know, a more similar lifestyle to me so that we can talk about, you know, the stress and the overwhelm and just talk about our jobs and talk about some things that these other women just, it wasn’t part of their lives. And so we didn’t have the same opportunities to dialogue about it, right?

So just not fitting in. I had also guilt about it. I was like, maybe I shouldn’t be working or maybe I shouldn’t enjoy working at least this much. I should want to be home. Because all of them say, I don’t know how you do it. As though they wouldn’t want to do it.

And just this whole like, what’s the matter with me? Why do I have this drive and this ambition and why do I love this part of my life and what does that mean about me as a mom, et cetera.

For those of you who are building businesses, my entrepreneur, my coaches, you’re going to maybe have this threat come up of not fitting in when you start putting yourself out there, when you start sharing content, you start posting on social media or putting out a podcast or a YouTube channel or however you’re going to go help people, you’re not going to please everyone, right?

And this is a real fear people have of, I don’t want to offend anyone, I don’t want anyone to come after me and say that I’m wrong or I don’t know what I’m talking about. It holds people back from achieving success because if you’re going to say anything interesting, some people aren’t going to like it. There’s a good possibility anyway.

So if everybody likes what you have to say, that probably means you’re not getting anyone’s attention. And I’m not talking about being sensational, you know, and controversial just to get attention. I’m just saying if you’re going to teach something new and different and unique that’s going to be powerful to someone that they haven’t heard before, there’s a reason it’s new and unique. And some people will disagree with you or not like it. And so you’re going to have to get comfortable with sometimes not fitting in.

Okay. So again, there’s probably way more examples that I’m not thinking of, but I just want you to wrap your head around like, is there an area of my life where if I was able to be more comfortable not fitting in, if it was okay to not fit in, would that allow me to achieve a lot more of the goals that I want to achieve for myself?

If the answer is yes, then here’s what I want you to think about today. First of all, this part of us that wants to fit in is coming from our survival brain. The survival brain is a great thing. We need the survival part of our brain that just looks out for keeping us alive.

But it is the least mature, least evolved part of the brain. In fact, it’s the part of the brain that babies have when they’re first born. Little kids are survival focused in the beginning, right? It’s all about like, am I safe, am I fed, am I warm, am I loved? Like all the things that we need for survival is what a little kid cares about.

As kids get older, they start to care about more than just survival. It’s not that we don’t care about survival, we just add on other things that we also care about.

This morning, we were getting ready to head out the door for school. I was taking my two younger kids to school and my 10-year-old son, no, he’s 11 now. I don’t know how old he is.

My 11-year-old fifth grade son said to me, “Mom, my sweatshirt,” he has this one sweatshirt he normally wears to school every day. He said, “My sweatshirt’s in dad’s truck” and dad was gone with with his truck, surfing, for the record.

So at any rate, I love, by the way, I’m not saying that angrily, I love that we live where my husband can go surfing every morning, so fun. So I was like, “Okay, well, let’s get you a different sweatshirt, because I know you have a whole bunch of sweatshirts.” So we go up to his closet, and we start looking at the sweatshirts.

And he’s like, “No, not that one, no, not that one, no, no.” Now, there can be reasons why we pass on sweatshirts in our closet, But I happen to believe that the reasons weren’t, that one’s not comfortable, et cetera.

It was, that one’s not cool. He didn’t say it, but I just know it’s true because there’s one particular sweatshirt has Mickey Mouse on it. It says Disney or something. And it used to be his favorite. He used to wear it to school every day. But he’s getting older now. And so he not only cares about being warm with his sweatshirt, He cares about looking cool at school.

And suddenly, I just think he’s at the age where Mickey Mouse is not so cool anymore, unless you’re going to Disneyland that day. So his brain is evolving, right? He’s not only worried about survival, he’s also worried about fitting in. So this part of our brains becomes from survival focus to belonging focused, but it’s just a baby step beyond survival.

And beyond that, which by the way, some adults never get to, for the record, but beyond belonging focus is an overall desire to achieve and evolve and grow and contribute, right? These goals of contribution and evolution and growth are beyond belonging.

It’s not that we don’t care about belonging, just like it’s not that we don’t care about survival. There’s just a next level, higher brain, prefrontal cortex, more evolved part of the brain that can think about the bigger picture.

And that’s the part of the brain that I want you to nurture and develop because you can do that. You can nurture and develop it by simply paying attention to what’s true, okay?

So let’s talk about that for a minute. What is true? This survival part of your brain thinks, “If I’m rejected by the tribe, I will die sooner.” That used to be true, right?

We used to need each other for warmth, for safety, for effectiveness in finding food, in building shelter, in fighting off danger of all sorts, animals, weather, natural disaster, et cetera.

In groups, we had a much higher chance of survival than on our own. And still to this day, I believe what it says in the Bible, which is it is not good for man to be alone, man slash woman to be alone.

We are tribal and we still need each other, okay? I’m not saying I don’t want you to have people around you, have community, have support. I want you to have all of that.

But what you have to know is that you don’t need everyone. You don’t need everyone to approve of you. You don’t need everyone to believe in you. You don’t even need everyone to like you. You really don’t. It’s not going to minimize your survival. It’s not gonna mean earlier death, like your primitive brain thinks.

In fact, trying to get everyone to like you just means you become vanilla ice cream. You become a watered down version of yourself, right?

This is what I see happen most often is that people don’t even know who they are. I think we’re all like that to a certain extent. I look at like how we dress and how we do our hair and everything.

And I’m like, do I like doing my hair this way? Do I like this hair on me? Or is this just the hair that I see that I’m supposed to have right now because it’s the year 2024. And that’s what I think hair is supposed to look like on a woman like me. I don’t even know.

Okay, so there’s a lot of that already happening, socialization, conditioning, et cetera, but there are certainly areas where if I step back and go, hold on, do I have this opinion just because everybody else has the opinion and I’m trying to fit in, or is this really my opinion?

And if you just slow it down for a minute and ask yourself and check in with what feels true to you, what feels right to you, what is your gut telling you, what is resonating for you, you will be able to find who you actually are.

And I just want you to lean into who you are, because who you are is who the world needs. That is always gonna be your best version of you is your most authentic version of you.

And I know those are like really fuzzy self-help words that we throw out a lot, but it’s the reality, and it’s super challenging to figure out who that even is and what that even is for each of us, okay?

So sometimes I just remind my brain, if I discover something like as a life coach, I know a lot of other life coaches, right? And I have lots of friends who are coaches and I love the coaching community. And I noticed that a lot of them like to participate in like online forums or groups of some sort. They like to have places online where they can connect, share ideas, get support, help one another.

And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that at all. I just don’t like doing it. I just don’t like spending my time online in those forums. I love to talk to somebody in person and do some of that when it happens, when it’s possible, which is not that often, to be honest, but I don’t like online forums and those kinds of groups. I just don’t care for them.

But part of my brain says, if you don’t get in there and participate, you’re gonna miss out on something and they might think that you’re, I don’t know, that you think you’re better than them or that you’re, I don’t know, they might judge you in some way or they just might forget about you. You might become irrelevant and everybody else is doing it. You probably should join and get in there and participate.

Okay, and so I have to pause and remind myself, “It’s okay, brain. We don’t need them all to understand us or get us, even if some of them do.” Truth is, we always are way more worried about people’s judgment than what is probably happening in reality, right? Most people don’t even care.

They’re not thinking about you, Jodi. They’re not paying attention to the fact that you’re not there. But even if a couple do, that’s okay. You’re not going to die younger. Your business isn’t gonna die out sooner either. Like that’s just your primitive brain latching on to what is an outdated survival mechanism.

You don’t need all the other coaches to love you in order to be successful at what you’re trying to achieve. So it’s really just redirecting, re-informing yourself, right? Even within your own family. I remember this when I started my coaching business over 10 years ago, there were some of my close friends or family members who just didn’t get it.

And they were like, what are you doing? That’s okay, whatever. I mean, they mostly kept it to themselves, but I could tell by the lack of interest in what I was doing, right? By little subtle changes in tone and behavior and things, that they had some judgment for it.

And these are my family and close friends who I love and care about. And I had to remind myself, it’s okay for them to not get what I’m doing. It’s okay if they don’t understand the power of it. It’s not for everyone.

This work that I love, that has helped me so much, that I believe in, it’s not for everyone. It’s okay if they don’t get it. Even these people who I love, it doesn’t mean that I can’t still love them, and it doesn’t even mean that they don’t still love me.

Just in this one particular area, we don’t see eye to eye, and that’s okay. I don’t need them to see the power of what I’m doing, because I see it. I’ve got me. I believe in me. I like me. I’m being who I wanna be, who I like being, and I can still love them, I don’t have to reject them.

It’s totally okay. This comes up too with the church stuff a lot, right? I was just talking to someone the other day who was like, what do you think about energy work? And what do you think about law of attraction?

And all of these kind of other ways of talking about, you know, the way human beings are and the way we interact with the spiritual or the divine. And I was like, oh, yeah, I love all of that. I love energy work. I’m so fascinated by it. I don’t actually know it all that well, but I love everything I’ve learned about it. And I love Law of Attraction, and I love to listen to different teachers and things.

And yeah, you can get some people that are out there. You have to make sure that people have good intentions and all of that. But yeah, I love learning about all of that stuff and reading those books.

And I believe in all of that stuff. And this person happened to be a member of my church or has been at one time anyway. And she’s like, oh, I just feel like in our faith, like that’s really frowned upon.

I just remember thinking like, I just don’t spend very much time thinking about whether or not that’s frowned upon. Because first of all, I don’t think it is, for the most part. I just don’t think people understand it necessarily, or maybe it’s not for them, but I don’t think they really care if I choose to participate in it.

But second of all, at some point, it becomes irrelevant what other people think, right? I always say this, what other people think of me is none of my business. It’s just irrelevant to a certain extent. And so then it doesn’t become like, do I fit in with these people or not? I get to decide if we fit in or not.

So just be careful about believing that you’re seeing what’s true in other people’s opinions of you when a lot of it is just our own projection of what we are worried about, our own insecurities or our own judgments of others.

That’s what we’re really seeing more than what other people think. And again, if they do think that, all right, well, again, I’m not for everyone. What are you gonna do? I’m not vanilla ice cream. I am tin roof sundae with chocolate and nuts. Not for everyone, right?

Last thing I wanna tell you about this topic is I want you to pause on occasion when this comes up for you and ask yourself, why does it feel so important to me to fit in with this group?

Are these the people that I really wanna be like? And I don’t mean this in a judgmental way, okay? I don’t mean that you should step back and go, I don’t wanna be like them anyway.

But in this certain area of your life, you may not. I was coaching a woman today who said, when I go out with my friends now and they eat double fudge brownie sundaes and I don’t eat one, they think I’m weird and they feel now guilty eating it in front of me and I just don’t fit in with them anymore.

And I want you to ask yourself, is their lifestyle when it comes to food and health, et cetera, what I want? And I don’t mean that they’re unhealthy. I just mean, is eating brownie sundaes going to create what I want in my life?

Because if you want to fit in with everyone, the truth is the majority of people are struggling, right? Like, we’ll just take food as the example. The majority of people are eating in ways that they know don’t serve them, and they would even say they wish they could change their habits.

They just don’t know how. They just haven’t been able to. So why do you want to fit in with those people who even themselves admit that they wish they could be different?

Okay. You have to be willing to not fit in. You’re going to be the odd one out. You’re going to be the weird one. If you’re going to go achieve goals that are hard to achieve, or you’re going to change habits that are hard to change, or you’re going to just own being who you are instead of just being like everyone else.

You’re going to stand out. But isn’t that what you want in the end? Don’t you want to be your best version of you? Your best version of you and my best version of me are not the same.

That means we wouldn’t necessarily fit in with each other in every area. Okay? But I think that the more you figure out who you truly are, who are you meant to be, what are you capable of becoming, what do you want to create, and then you lean into being her or being him, the more you will find that you don’t fit in.

And that does not mean you’re on the wrong track. In fact, in most cases, in many cases, it will mean you’re on the right path and you just have to be willing to not fit in. All right, thanks for joining me today, everybody. I will see you next week. Have a beautiful, amazing week.

If you like this podcast, I would be so honored if you would share it with your friends, screenshot it, tag me on the socials so I can re-share, leave me a review, make sure you’re following or subscribed to the podcast. That’s the most important thing. And again, thank you for being here. I’ll see you next week. Bye-bye.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 482. When You Don’t Fit In appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Have you tried everything to lose weight, only to gain it all back again? Are you tired of yo-yo dieting and going to extreme measures to finally see some weight loss? What if there was a way to lose weight and keep it off for good?

This week, I’m joined by my health coach Jenn Pinnell to explore the key mindset shifts and strategies that have helped me lose 20 pounds and get my health markers back to a normal range over the past year. Having Jenn by my side has helped me ensure these changes are permanent, and I know so many of you are also wondering how to make lasting changes in your eating habits and relationship with food.

If you want to learn how to lose weight for the last time, this episode is for you. Jenn explains why developing self-compassion and letting go of perfectionism are essential for long-term success, the benefits and pitfalls of tracking your eating habits, and shares her balanced and practical approach for developing a peaceful relationship with food and your body.

If you’re ready to lose weight for the last time throughout the holiday season, join me in The Lab, where I guide you through my four-month Make Peace with Food course from October 2024 to January 2025. Doors are closing soon, so click here to find out more.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why maintaining weight loss is harder than losing weight in the first place. * What happens when you stop judging your food decisions. * Why a moderate calorie deficit is more sustainable than extreme restriction. * How demonizing food makes it harder for you to make peace with it. * Why self-compassion is the key to unlocking a healthier relationship with food. * The benefits and pitfalls of tracking your food closely. * How wearing a continuous glucose monitor changed my food decisions. * Jenn’s tips for gaining awareness of your eating behaviors.

Mentioned on the Show: Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast! * Come check out The Lab! * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * Jenn Pinnell: Instagram | Email * 477. The Reason You Aren’t Healthier with Brittney Zeedik * Body for Life* by Bill Phillips * Feel Great system * Huberman Lab Podcast * MyFitnessPal

I have been getting so many messages from all of you saying how helpful it is to learn about the tools and strategies that I’ve used over the past year to get healthier, to get leaner, to lose 20 pounds, to get my A1C down to a healthy level. And I’m still using to make sure those changes are permanent.

A few weeks ago, I brought on one of my other coaches, Brittney Zeedik, who talked to us about the biology side, especially we talked about insulin resistance. Today, I have my other coach, Jenn Pinnell, who I’ve worked with for the past year, who has helped me so much in the psychology side. I wanted to share her with all of you. So welcome to episode 481, How to Lose Weight for the Last Time with Jenn Pinnell.

Hello, friends. I decided in September of 2023 to focus on my health again, because I could tell I was in a healthy spot and ready to do it. Here’s what I mean. I had a girls trip coming up in January. We were going to be going in January of 2024, I should say. We were going to be going to Mexico. And I just decided casually one day, maybe I’ll lose five pounds before we go to Mexico.

This was in September, right? So I knew that to give myself from September to January to lose five pounds was a totally reasonable amount of time. I wouldn’t have to do anything drastic. I’m not willing to do anything drastic at this point in my life because I know that is not sustainable and I’m not interested in temporarily losing weight only to gain it back.

I wasn’t making the goal because I hated my body and wouldn’t be able to be in a swimsuit in front of my friends or anything like that. I knew five pounds, nobody else would even notice but me. That’s how you know you’re in the right head space. Okay? And you can get yourself there if you’re not there.

But my point is, at that point, I found and hired Jenn Pinnell to coach me because I’m a believer in coaching, obviously. And Jenn and I are still working together and have been working together for now a full year. And I am so grateful for the things that she’s taught me.

I’m now down almost 20 pounds from when we started, I was able to get my A1C back to a normal level. And again, I talked about the biology side of that, which I think is important to address. I think you have to pay attention to areas where your body needs to be healed or re-regulated. And that’s what Brittany Zeedik and I talked about a few weeks ago.

But the psychology part is equally as important. If you don’t get your head straight, then it’s going to be hard to make those changes long term. And I just have so enjoyed working with Jenn. She’s really helped me get my head into a healthy space and she continues to do that. So I wanted to share her with all of you today.

Now, before we get into my conversation with Jenn, I decided in celebration of the one year anniversary of this whole change and journey that I’ve been on, I wanted to invite those of you who feel like it would be helpful for you, who have similar goals or somewhat of a similar situation to me, to come and join me. And I’m going to guide you through exactly how I did it. And I’m going to coach you through it.

And I’m going to give you – I’ve given you a lot of the tools here on the podcast, but I’m going to give you even more. And I’m going to give you some specifics around how to, and I’m going to be there to hold your hand and coach you through it.

So we’re going to be doing a four month deep dive into making peace with food, October, November, December, and January. That was, again, the start of my journey and it really set me up for success because I did it through the holidays and deep into the new year. And I feel like the timing of it, even though I didn’t choose it intentionally, was really helpful because if you can manage yourself through the holidays, the rest of the year is pretty easy.

So for those of you in The Lab, you’re going to be getting that program. It is part of what we’ll be doing in The Lab. We will have other courses happening too for those of you not focused on this, but for those of you that want the help, we are just wrapping up the four-week mini version of Make Peace with Food. Some of you have been in there and gotten a taste of what it’s like to work with me. If you want to go all in, set a goal, work with me for four months, make sure you’re in The Lab.

The doors are open right now but will be closing very soon. I think within about a little over a week after this episode airs. So you got to head to jodymoore.com/join. It’s your last chance to get in there and get the full four months of Make Peace with Food. All right, let’s go to my conversation with Jenn Pinnell. Here we go.

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Jody: So thank you so much for coming on the show. So happy to have you. I can’t believe I haven’t had you on before.

Jenn: I don’t know. Maybe it wasn’t the right timing yet.

Jody: Maybe not. We had you in The Lab. We did call you in for The Lab for everyone but we need to share you with the bigger world. Okay. So Jenn Pinnell, let’s just start with basic introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into doing what you do today.

Jenn: I got into health coaching mostly just out of passion. I really enjoyed my weightlifting class in high school and the Body for Life book that came out like so many years ago.

Jody: I read that. I did that, a fistful of protein and a fistful of carbs.

Jenn: There was something about that book that spoke to my soul that I just, I mean, I don’t come from a family of like super health nuts or even exercise fanatics, but just taking that class and reading that book and practicing a lot of myself. I have five babies, so I got pregnant and did the whole pregnancy thing five times and obviously wanted to get back to a good healthy weight when I was done. And so I’ve always enjoyed exercise.

And when the time was right, I took some nutrition courses to kind of learn a little bit more in terms of nutrition and applied that to myself, which in turn I thought it was really fun. And I had people asking me, you know, like, “Oh, what are you doing?” And then, you know, a little bit of help here and a little bit of help there and a few more classes and really started health coaching because I came at a crossroads with having to go back to work because I got divorced when I was 38 and I needed to get some income.

I also needed a path and it was pretty much the best – not the best, but it was my passion and it was something I wanted to follow anyways. And I just really lucked out finding a good company that was hiring somebody that didn’t have a lot of experience and six years later, here I am.

Jody: That’s so awesome. So it has kind of always been something that you’ve been drawn to and practiced in your own life as opposed to like some kind of transformation personally, right, for you? Is that what you’re saying?

Jenn: Yeah, I would say that I’ve always been kind of connected to the body and health and feeling good. It’s always been something that, I wish I had a big story of like a transformation, but it just has been ingrained in who I am. And like I said, it wasn’t raised in a family that was, you know, big fanatics. It just spoke to me and I think it’s been my path for a reason because I’ve been able to coach and help so many other people.

Jody: I actually like that. Sorry to interrupt you, but I think that’s great because sometimes I know we have some coaches that listen to this podcast, all different kinds of coaches, and sometimes it is our own transformation and journey that then we go on and help people with.

But there are so many things that for any one of us kind of come more naturally that don’t come naturally to everybody. Like, I know in the life coach school world that I am, you know, pretty exposed to, there’s a lot of people who are trying to stop drinking. And I, having never been a drinker, you know, was like, “Well, I can’t coach people on how to stop drinking because I never was a drinker.” But then I realized, wait, it’s just so natural for me.

I hear the mass questions like, “But what do you do when you go to like a work Christmas party and everybody’s drinking?” You just say, “I don’t drink.” Like, it’s so basic to me, but to them, it’s like, people will think you’re weird. I’m like, “Yeah, they do. Some of them, mostly they don’t care actually, but a few of them do, and it’s fine. You just let them think you’re weird.”

Sometimes it’s those things that are so innate, or, you know, I know you focus on it too, and I don’t mean to undermine the work that you put in, but like, it’s more natural for you, and that’s also a great thing sometimes to teach people. So, anyway.

Jenn: I do think it’s been a gift, I do. I really believe that it’s been a gift that I’ve been blessed with because I’ve been able to use it in such a big way in my life, especially supporting my family, my cute five kids, you know, over time. I feel like God really did give it to me and I’ve been able to use it and I think that’s what talents really are for.

Jody: Yeah, totally. I love that so much. Okay, so Jenn, we’ve been working together for almost a year now, I just realized.

Jenn: I know. It’s so great.

Jody: It’s almost our anniversary. We should celebrate with cake.

Jenn: I’ll come visit you again. How does that sound?

Jody: Okay. Yeah, let’s do that. Because I was just having this memory of last year, these friends that we used to live nearby always did an adult Halloween party every year for couples, and everybody dresses up. So it’s a couple weeks, a week or two before Halloween usually. And I remember going to that party and everybody brings, of course, like a treat or some kind of food to share.

And I remember telling my other friend who was there, like loading up my plate and telling her like, “Yeah, I’m just going to eat all this food because I’m going to talk to Jenn next week.” Or no, I think I was joking, like, it might have been the time when you were like, “Just write down what you’re eating. Don’t try to change your habits necessarily. I just want to get a feel for what you normally eat.”

And I’m like, I got to eat all this because I just need her to see what I normally eat. We’re kind of joking about it. But I was just thinking how cool it is that it’s been a year and just on the one hand, part of me wants to be like, look at how much weight I’ve lost and go, that’s all you’ve lost over a year?

But on the other hand, it’s definitely, I’ve made so much progress in, in all the ways that matter. And what I told you was I’m not interested in just losing a bunch of weight really fast. I want to like lose weight and be able to maintain this forever. And so I love that that’s what we’ve been doing this year. So I wanted to, I wrote down a handful of things that either like in my experience have been challenging and I’m guessing that I know that they are for many people.

And I wanted to share kind of what my experience has been and what our work has been like together and have you speak to it as well. But then also my experience is not the only experience out there and you’re exposed to all kinds of people.

So maybe you can fill in gaps about what else you hear and see that would be helpful to our listeners who are struggling. I mean, I had this experience the other day where I saw a friend of mine online and she looked like she had lost some weight and gotten healthier.

And I still want to go, “What did you do?” As though it’s like one thing. And maybe it is. Sometimes it is like some kind of a surgery or a drug or something. But in the end, I’m like, why do we still feel like we’re going to ask that? And I think it’s not because I necessarily think there’s just like one magic thing, but it’s like, how did you get yourself to do all the things that we need to do.

Jenn: It’s curiosity. It’s curiosity, don’t you think? I’m a coach and I see people who make transformations and I’m like always so curious because different things work for different people. So I get curious about what actually hit them and what is working for them. And so I, that’s my word. when you said that, it was just curiosity.

Jody: Curiosity, yeah, you’re right. And that’s what I’m hoping we’ll do on this episode today is like share with people. I want to share what I’ve done, but also like I want you to share on a broader spectrum, like what people do that other people might try out that might help them achieve their goals. So first question I have for you, what do you think is harder for people? Losing weight or maintaining the weight loss?

Jenn: You know the answer too, right?

Jody: I mean, but it’s not the answer I used to think. So I want to have you speak to it.

Jenn: 100% it’s maintaining the weight loss that they keep, that they get off. We’ve talked about the dopamine hit that you get from seeing the weight go down and seeing the scale go down and people saying, You look so good, what are you doing?” And your clothes are fitting, right?

Those are all things that we gain from losing weight. But when you’re in maintenance and you’re not getting the dopamine and people aren’t noticing you’re losing weight or you’re not seeing big changes anymore, there is something uncomfortable about that.

And people tend to go back to eating the way that they did before, or they adopt, you know, we adopt new habits through losing weight. And we try to hold on to some of those habits. And in maintenance, we try to maintain those habits and not go too far back to our old habits or pick up new bad habits.

But maintenance just feels, I would say people describe it as boring, you know, it’s repeating the same things, drinking your water, doing your exercise, moving your body, trying to be mindful of your choices, and that you don’t get that same sort of hits. And I mean, you tell me.

Jody: I remember, it must have been like seven years ago was the first time I hired a coach to help me lose some weight. I started losing weight and, and I was like – so it was kind of the first time I’d like really focused on it with a coach, really taking it seriously, not just like feel bad about it, you know? And I was so amazed that I was doing it.

I was like, “Oh my gosh, look at this. I’m doing it. Like I’m losing, I’m losing weight and that’s so hard for people to do.” And it had been hard for me to do. And I had no idea that maintenance was going to be actually the hardest part.

You know, it took me several times of losing weight and gaining it back to realize that. And it’s interesting when you say it’s harder because of how boring it is, because we don’t have, I feel like there’s, there’s not the motivation anymore. Like I can get committed and go, “Oh, that’s it. I’m dialing it in. I got a few more pounds, let’s go,” and get focused and then see the progress from time to time.

And it’s, there’s like, something to grab onto almost versus maintenance, it has definitely, again, in the last year, that’s been really our focus. So we talk a lot about that. Like, what is this going to be like when I’m not in a calorie deficit.

So I’ve had a lot of opportunities to practice that, but I can see even when you talk about the water, right? Like drinking all the water, I don’t mind drinking all the water. I just hate that I have like – every store that I ever go to, I know where their bathroom is because I always have to go to the bathroom. And that’s just annoying. It’s just annoying. It’s not hard, but I’m like, wait, that’s going to be the rest of my life. Really?

Jenn: Unfortunately, if you continue to drink water, I mean, hopefully you get used to it at some point.

Jody: I know. I have actually.

Jenn: And when you’re not trying to lose weight and you’re not trying to always feel that – you know, there are days when you will and won’t, you know, there’s a lot more, it’s more or less the consistency. And I do want to say that for those people who are struggling to lose weight, that part is hard too. I don’t want to discount that the weight loss isn’t hard, because I know some people who come to me and we work together and the weight loss part, they want to get to the maintenance part because the weight loss part is hard.

From my experience in people who have lost weight, I love what you said, there’s lack of motivation, you get to a point where you feel better, where you’ve kind of checked off all those boxes, and you don’t, you know, you don’t need or you don’t feel the need to continue to do the same things.

And I try to reiterate that to majority of my clients, because my goal is for you to lose the weight, however much that is that you decide along the way, and you feel better, and that somehow we adopt some routines and habits that maintain so that you can keep that and not ever have to go back and lose that weight again.

Jody: Okay, so one of the things that helped me, but as I was preparing to talk to you today, I wanted to, I was like, I don’t know if I’ve ever asked Jenn’s opinion on this, and I’m curious about it.

Because the other thing that gets in our way is this all-or-nothing thinking, or sometimes people call it diet mentality, which to me is kind of the same thing. It’s like, I’m temporarily going to go all in and then I’m going to throw in the towel and we just go back to old ways, right?

I heard someone say once, another weight loss person that I follow or health person, and she said, “I’m not willing to do anything when I’m like trying to lose weight that I wouldn’t be willing to do long-term.” And sometimes I question that because I’m like, well, if you’re trying to lose weight though, then you’re in a calorie deficit, which is not, we don’t want to do that long-term. Or maybe you’re trying to gain muscle and then you might be like eating extra fuel or whatever is required. I’ve never really actually done that.

But I think there are some things that we do that we’re only doing temporarily, but overall it did really help me to think about it that way. Like, wait a second, am I just in my head thinking, “Okay, I’m going to do this for a little bit, but I’m not going to do this forever.” And I’m just curious your thoughts on that, that comment.

Jenn: I think what she’s referring to is some of the extreme ways that people go to lose weight. You know, she’s not willing to go down an extreme pathway that will lead to weight loss, but that is not really part of her lifestyle. So if I could take myself for an example, like the way that I eat, very much an 80-20 individual, I love healthy food. I love vegetables. I love fruit. I love to focus on the way that I feel and feed my body.

But then there’s 20% of me that I’m going to talk about. I love ice cream and chips and salsa. And there’s days when I overeat a few cookies because they taste really yummy, you know? But if I were to say, let’s say I wanted to lose some weight I would take what I was doing right now and I would just cut maybe 20% off of the top of that. I’d still probably eat the same foods. I might cut something back here or there.

I might cut back on a little bit of my treats because those are more calorie dense. I might focus on a little bit more voluminous foods because that’s a little easier to be in a deficit, but not much of what I would personally eat would change.

So I think what she’s saying is that sometimes people think that they need to go to an extreme measure or do something that’s maybe out of the ordinary in order to get the result. But if you’re not willing to do that long-term, that result tends to be, it’s almost like you’re disconnected because you’re not connected to that way of living for the rest of your life.

Jody: I love that. And one of the things I’ve loved about working with you is you’re really good at like getting into my head. We spend a lot of time, like sometimes I’ll say something and I notice you go, “But why?” Like, I can tell you’re trying to understand, like, is that coming from a healthy place? Or is that coming from a problematic place?

And I’m thinking with what we’re talking about here, like if somebody says, “Okay, I’m going to lose some weight, so I’m not going to have ice cream for the next month.” That’s not a bad strategy, but what are you looking for in people? How do we help people who are trying to determine on their own? Like, what kind of temporary changes do I need to make here? And how do I know if it’s something that I could then sustain in the long run? Do you see what I’m saying?

Jenn: Well, I’m going to use you for an example. So after you found out about your blood work, right? And you realized that you were insulin resistant and you were a little bit borderline diabetic, right? You decided and you came to me and you said, “I want to do intermittent fasting.” And I was like, “Great.” Like that’s a strategy. That’s a tool, right?

Jody: Actually, you were like, “Really? Are you sure? Let’s talk about this.” No, I’m kidding.

Jenn: I know. It’s a struggle because I have personally never intermittent fasted, but I have people in my coaching practice that that is a tool and it’s actually a practice that they really enjoy and they love and I don’t tell people how to do things. I just guide them through their own journey.

But we talked about your all-or-nothing mentality and how that would affect your all-or-nothing mentality. And you stated, told me that you’re like, “Okay, I want to intermittent fast. I want to try the Feel Great system. I want to apply that all to my journey.”

And I was like, “Great, that’s awesome. But I also want you to recognize that if you are hungry in the morning, and you want to eat breakfast, that you should just say I want to eat breakfast.” And you did that. You came back to me several times after that and said, “You know what, I am fasting.” I don’t remember what majority of the time, but sometimes you were like, “But sometimes I eat breakfast,” and that resonated with me because that really worked you away from the all or nothing, like I have to intermittent fast.

But that was a tool and a strategy that I have tried that I really, it does not speak to my soul. Like it does for my body and the way that I function, it doesn’t work, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work for other people. And it doesn’t mean that it’s a bad strategy.

And I think that’s where people, you know, when you look at, you know, people are eating keto, I have a couple clients who prefer to eat a higher fat, higher protein diet and lower carbohydrates. And that really resonates with them. And they’re able to stick with that.

In fact, they’re like everybody in their house eats that way. And so that environment dictates that kind of behavior that’s healthy for them. And so when people walk down paths like that, and they talk to me about things like that, I’m not opposed to people having strategies and tools that work for them, it’s the same rules that apply for weight loss.

You still have to find a way to be in a calorie deficit. You still have to figure out how to keep your blood sugar levels stable. You know, the same thing, some of the principles that you have talked about.

Jody: And yeah, it does go back to not trying to be a perfectionist necessarily about it. Okay, I wanted to hear your thoughts on how you talked with your clients about the way we sort of villainize food, or I feel like we even use like moral terms to describe food, like good, bad.

And I don’t know if you find this on a broader scale, but for me, in my journey with all this, it’s helped me to neutralize food. And so could you maybe give us, how do you describe to your clients the healthiest way to think about food in general?

Jenn: Well, I love you talking about neutral. I know you have some real things you put out there about the apple and the muffin, right? You know, there is no good or bad food. It’s just that different foods actually work inside of our bodies a different way.

So 100 calories of an apple and 100 calories in a muffin, they’re different types of nutrients. And in learning to fuel and feed our bodies, we have to, at some point, understand that our bodies need certain specific nutrients. And a lot of us have been taught that it’s all about calories.

We look at food based on how many calories are in that food. And so we may choose something less nutritious because it tastes good, that’s a lot less food than if you filled up on a whole bunch of food that’s, you know, way more nutritious.

I tend to talk to my clients about how does food make you feel? Sometimes food, you eat food because it makes you feel a little happy, right? Like you do choose like the muffin, because at times that’s a better choice. But I would say that if you’re looking for overall health, choosing foods that fill you up and make you feel good, your digestion feels great, your energy feels great, there’s a lot of foods that people are neglecting in their diets because they quote unquote, either they don’t taste good or they don’t sound good because that’s how we’ve been taught to actually choose our foods.

So when we look at that and we stand back and say, “Well, sometimes I choose foods based on that reason.” And I would say the majority, my 80% is based on foods that are nutritious and that fill me up and that make me feel good. And then there’s like that 20% of foods that I sprinkle in that are fun and enjoyable. And sometimes when I’m emotional and I want to eat that, I do that. I try not to guilt or shame or like you talked about, add judgment to that type of a food.

I just know that different foods give people different results. And if we judge ourselves based on those decisions, that judgment I think is the hardest part about teaching somebody food is that even when I’m teaching a client how to track or not track their food, I would say the majority of clients who don’t want to track their food don’t want to see it because they judge themselves very harshly on the foods that they’re eating.

And when you learn not to judge yourself, when you learn that it’s just data, and it’s just information, and it will help you kind of get to your goals, you kind of back away from that judgment and you just see it as what it is and what you need to tweak and change a little bit to get the result that you want.

And some days itmight look a little crazy and some days you’re going to eat so great that you’re just going to be so excited. But I try to talk to my clients about food in that way and I do find that it’s really helpful when you continue to reiterate those principles.

Jody: I get pushback sometimes on this when I teach it this way because to me it just makes sense and it gives me more peace. And I feel like food is less powerful in general when I don’t make it good or bad, but I get pushback sometimes from people, like, especially they’ll tell me that they’re nutritionists or whatever, and they’ve studied this and they’re like, “No, there is food that is bad.”

Like my son was just asking me the other day, my fifth grader, he’s like, “Mom, isn’t true though, that we all need some sugar? Like we need some sugar every day.” And I was like, “Not necessarily like you need carbohydrates, you need energy. And you can get that in the form of fructose or sugar or whatever. But if you went your whole life without eating like refined sugar, your body’s not going to suffer.”

So that that’s the kickback I get sometimes. They’re like, “No, there are foods that are ‘bad.’” Yes. They’re giving you a temporary burst of energy. And I don’t know if you would agree with that statement or not, but that’s the kickback I get.

Jenn: I personally believe that people have demonized a lot of food. And I don’t think psychologically it does much for us as individuals when we demonize food. There are specific foods in my vocabulary or foods that I would look at and I would I probably demonize them, and I probably won’t eat them, but I’m not going to talk about them so that other people feel bad about their choices.

So I do think nutritionists and people who are scientific and do a lot of research, they’re smart. They have done a lot of studying and so they have an opinion and their opinion is fine. They can have that opinion, but I personally believe it doesn’t do anything for us people us that are just trying to make good choices.

It just makes everything look bad or good and then people are so confused about what to eat and then they walk down rabbit holes in places they don’t even want to be just based on somebody else’s opinion. And I personally believe it comes back to connecting with yourself and, you know, understanding your body well enough to know that you’re feeding it the good things.

And that if you want to eat something that is ‘bad,’ you’re not eating it every day. Your mind might not only be eating it once a year, but if you think it’s ‘bad,’ you may never come near it because it’s been demonized.

Jody: Okay. That’s interesting. I like that. The other thing too, that helps me as I just remember, like one of the things that I never feel good after I eat is red licorice. And I’m sure it’s like red dye and the sugar and whatever.

Jenn: That’s so ironic because back in the day, I thought red licorice was like the treat to eat because it was low, no fat.

Jody: It was fat-free. Oh, me too. Yes.

Jenn: Fat-free. Yes.

Jody: Yeah. Oh, I used to eat so much in college. This is fat-free. I can just eat whatever I want. But I don’t know, just in the last however many years, I’ve noticed that I just, even if I only eat, you know, three pieces of red vines, I just feel terrible afterwards. And so I have in my mind been like, not that I’m not going to ever let myself eat it, but it’s, I’m going to regret it after if I eat it, it is genuinely ‘bad’ for my body.

But the way I get out of giving it all that power and like – because I just can’t be afraid of it. Otherwise it does have some kind of power and it becomes more appealing for some reason is I remind myself, “Okay, but you ate some licorice. You didn’t like – you’re not robbing banks or harming babies. You know, you ate something that your body doesn’t like and it doesn’t serve you and it’s not good for you. Okay.”

And that’s kind of the next thing maybe we could speak to is when you do make a choice that isn’t ideal, that you didn’t want to be making, and maybe it’soutside of your 20% window even, or you know, you have a day where you just throw the towel in or whatever.

You alluded to this earlier, but let’s expand on this idea of like, when we feel bad afterwards, why is that so problematic? And what do you say to clients that feel like that’s the only option and how do you not feel bad after?

Jenn: So last night, my daughter made pumpkin chocolate chip cookies and we had dinner. It was great salmon bowls that she made, and they actually didn’t turn out that well, which is ironic. They tasted great, but they just didn’t turn out that well.

Anyways, I ate one. It was really good. And I went back for a second. And then I ate a third. And it was really funny, because I don’t rarely eat like three cookies. And so I was doing a little coaching on myself. And I was like, “Jenn, don’t feel bad. They weren’t that good. And you normally, you know, you don’t really don’t do that.” And then at the same time, I was like, I reminded myself that I do that in order to remind myself why I don’t want to do that.

So every once in a while I’ll overeat and I’ll go, “Oh, that was a good reminder of Jenn why you tend to stop at one or why you’re good at being like, no I don’t want any or I’m done.” So what I tell clients is that self-compassion is I would say the key to unlocking your relationship with food when you can really tap in and work on progression and instead of saying, “Let’s start Monday or let’s start tomorrow morning,” I like to think finish the night strong.

Last night I actually drank a bunch of water. I know it was right before bed, but I wanted to kind of flush that all through me. I always feel better when I drink some water afterwards. And so if you’re not shaming and guilting and berating and belittling yourself, there’s a lot of motivation that can come from the kindness and the compassion where you go, “I was hungry and it tasted good and I wanted three so I had three and tomorrow, it’s a good reminder that tomorrow I’m going to drink some water now and I can let those cookies sit there now for the next few days. I don’t need to have any more.”

And what I find with weight loss is that when I’m coaching a client and they can work on that self-compassion or they can work on starting fresh the next meal or ending the day really strong and focusing on the things that you’re doing better at rather than maybe the little mishap you had in the day, people don’t give up.

They want to keep going and they focus on their wins and feeling good as opposed to maybe where, you know, they still need a little bit of work or they still need to understand how their bodies work and what their bodies need. And just berating, I mean, you’ve noticed that without the shame and the guilt and the belittling yourself, there’s a lot more progress that can be made psychologically in your mind and your mindset with food. And that leads you to better behaviors over time.

Jody: That’s so true. Like a lot of times we’re overeating because we’re trying to escape feeling something negative, stress, boredom, and then we feel bad about it afterwards. We have guilt and shame. And then maybe that lingers for a day or two, which makes us want to eat more.

It’s so obvious when you think about it, but in the moment it feels like if I just don’t feel bad about this, if I say it’s fine, you wanted those cookies, you were hungry, they tasted good, then for sure I’m just going to keep eating cookies. But it’s actually the opposite, right?

Jenn: I’ve actually been working with a client now for about a year. And at first we worked on weight loss and after a while she kind of hit like a, she had a done button and she just started to just really unload, started binge eating, really started going down an unhealthy direction, but she could let me work with her while we were doing it.

And we’ve spent nine months working on living in the gray zone where, you know, we’re not swinging that pendulum too far into the binging, but we’re not – I actually didn’t let her go into a cut or try to lose weight until she really understood what it looked like to have that compassion and to be able to eat foods that she loved and eat healthy foods because they’re good for her.

And once you get to that middle gray area with food, that not black not white gray area, and you start speaking to yourself kindly and stop judging yourself for the choices that you make you really, really, really can start to make progress because you’re not continually swinging from one direction to the other.

Jody: Let’s talk about the tools of awareness for just a minute. You mentioned briefly that you have, I don’t know if you do this with all your clients, but some of them record their food. I know I’m I track my food pretty closely. There’s the scale and then at one point last year, I started wearing a continuous glucose monitor, a CGM even, so I just want to hear your thoughts about paying attention, becoming more aware of what’s happening in our bodies, the power of that. What do you recommend to people? And if they’re just getting started with that, and what are the pitfalls and dangers we should avoid with it?

Jenn: I love data. I actually really love data. And I try to teach my clients to withdraw the emotion from the data, the judgment that we talked about. Recording your food, it just brings awareness. If you’re wanting to be honest and understand your own habits, what it does is it creates awareness.

The pitfalls that I find is that if you’re a perfectionist, and you have a really hard time wanting everything to look perfect, and you don’t know how you go out to eat, you don’t exactly know what’s in your food, or you go to a party, and you don’t know exactly – that’s where a little bit of the tracking can lead to some, like a little neurotic behaviors where people are, you know, really, really struggling to feel good about tracking your food.

And I work with people on trying to step back from that going, “Just do your best.” Like you say, Jody, like, you know, give me some B work, that’ll give us some information. And then we can work off of that information. I think the continuous glucose monitor was something that you needed to teach you a little bit more about your body. And you used it in a very healthy way. You did. And I think you took it and there were some weeks when it was like, “Huh?” You scratched your head. And you’re like, “Something’s wrong.”

And it was broken, actually it was not working, right? And you knew there was something wrong. But it gave you some information, some insight that not – I don’t believe that everybody needs that. I don’t that’s not a tool that a lot of my clients need. But that was really good for you.

The scale is another one that I would say I personally work a lot with women or men on about the scale and about how to remove the emotion from stepping on the scale because it does show some validation of where we want it to show validation of our hard work.

But when I teach them all of the things that go into the scale, you know, their digestion, their fluid, like so many different components that when they step on the scale, it’s just gravity. And I have people who step on the scale and they felt better in their skin and their clothes. And then they stepped on the scale and the pound was up and it totally wrecks the rest of their day. And so it’s talking about that.

And every person that I work with is so different in terms of some of them step on the scale every single day and it’s not an issue. They just are like, “Oh, it’s data, it’s information.” And some of them that we tread a little bit more lightly around it until they can, they may never work themselves up to every day but where they work themselves up to getting it on a couple times a week because if you’re only getting it on one day you’re only seeing like one little snapshot and you have no idea if two days before – I mean I’ve worked with this with people and then like two days before you can see that the scale is going down.

It just popped back up for, you know, maybe you had a really hard workout and you’re really inflamed and your body has more water in the cells. So you know, you stepped back on it, but you’re actually down in weight, right? You just can’t see it because the scale didn’t reflect it.

I love the tools. I love the data. I think the more that people can be more honest and upfront with their food and what their behaviors are, and with the way that their body’s functioning, blood work is another good tool to get your blood work done and to get everything checked out and have somebody that you trust go over it and look at it and help you tweak a few things if you need it.

All of those things I think are good tools. It’s just a matter of where people are in their journeys and how much their brains can handle. And sometimes that just takes a little bit more time to get there.

Jody: So if somebody’s just starting out, would you just say, just write down what you’re eating? Where’s the best place to start? Write down what you’re eating.

Jenn: Yeah. I have a lot of people who just write everything down, look at it, be really aware and honest and don’t hide the bites and the licks and the taste, but once you start to really understand your behavior, that’s where the change comes from.

Jody: Sometimes I have to remind myself too, like, just because I don’t write it down doesn’t mean I didn’t eat it. You know, like, oh, one little bite, I’m not going to record that. I’m like, “Yeah, you don’t have to, but also you still ate it.” Like, I don’t know. It’s just, it’s just interesting to watch what our heads do and like you said, to not judge ourselves.

I did though – I think I started wearing the CGM because I heard on Huberman Lab, he talked about that he wears a CGM and I had just become aware, like you said, of my condition with my blood work and all that. So I was like, “Okay, I’m going to wear this for a while and try it.”

And one things that they claim, the companies that make those, is that I’d want to say it was 80% of people reduce their glucose spikes by whatever percentage just by wearing the CGM. Like, there’s something about just having the awareness of it that, without even really putting much focus on it, we start to alter our behaviors a little bit. So, even like you said, just writing down my food makes me think twice before I eat the third cookie, knowing I’m going to write it down. It’s interesting, yeah.

Jenn: Very interesting. That’s an interesting thing to say because, or observe, because it does mean tracking your food. A lot of people, I look at their food, so they don’t want to write it down because I’m looking at it. And I try to tell them I’m coming from a very non-judgmental place, but in writing everything down, it almost, it almost makes you free.

It almost, there is freedom in being honest with yourself about the things, because if you’re not looking at it with judgment, you’re looking at it with like, “Oh, I’m gaining weight because of this, gosh, that’s actually a really easy fix. I can just, you know, maybe take that thing out and maybe I would feel better.” People want to avoid because they do a lot of judging.

Jody: Yeah, it’s true. But even with the CGM, like you never were looking at my CGM stats, and nobody was except me. But just knowing that I was going to see it on there. It even changes a little bit my behavior. I mean, it gave me a lot of awareness, first of all, so I learned, like I was really surprised to discover that a donut doesn’t impact my blood sugar nearly as much as like barbecue sauce on my chicken.

Jenn: Yeah. I remember when you said that the Diet Coke, you had actually…

Jody: Oh, one time I had a Diet Coke, totally spiked my blood sugar and not every time, but sometimes. So yeah, sometimes my body responds weird to things like Diet Coke and yeah, it just gave me a little bit more knowledge so that I, like, if I am going to have barbecue chicken, I plan to go on my walk after my lunch or after my dinner because a walk also brings it down so significantly.

So I just learned a lot of things, things that I knew, like, it’s not like I didn’t know that going for a walk helps your blood sugar or that barbecue sauce has sugar in it. Like, I know these things, but there’s something about seeing it in my, really happen in real time in my body, that is a little bit more motivating of like, again, I always think of it like a video game and these are apps on my phone mostly, right?

MyFitnessPal and the, the CGM and like, I’m trying to make everything line up. It’s like Tetris. And I’m trying to keep that blood sugar line from just having little hills instead of huge spikes and valleys. And when you start seeing it in real time and you don’t judge it, then it just becomes like a fun game, kind of, that you’re playing.

And that’s kind of ideal, which again goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning with maintenance. Now I don’t have the game to play so much. Not that I couldn’t still monitor my glucose or even track my food if I wanted, but the gamification becomes a little different and then a little more boring. And so then what’s my motivation to keep on track? It’s kind of interesting.

Jenn: Well, I wanted to ask you, specifically, how did wearing that change your behavior? Like with food, knowing and learning and understanding all of that and how it applied to your body, do you make decisions differently today than you maybe ever would have if you never wore that monitor.

Jody: Yeah, I do. I mean, one of the things is just learning how much fiber makes a difference, like having fiber with my carbs. And so I do still use that Feel Great system and have like a fiber supplement because most of our food doesn’t have enough fiber. And so that makes a big difference in what happens with my glucose.

And then also it’s not so much that I changed what I was eating so much as the timing of it. Because like I said, I was already – you and I had been working together for a while and I was already kind of on track with like 80/20 healthy food. And my 20%, I am a little more thoughtful about when.

Whereas I used to kind of save it to the end of the day, like I’m going to eat healthy and then, you know, then I get to have dessert, a little bit of a treat after dinner or something, or most of my carbs I would have at dinner because then I could just eat with my kids instead of, right?

Whereas now I know that after dinner, I’m actually tired. I’ve probably already exercised for the day. I like to kind of lay around and not do much in the evening. And so I need actually the majority of my carbs or my treat or whatever to be at lunch because then in the afternoon I’m still active and I’m regulating. So it’s like the timing changed more than anything.

Jenn: I love that though. There was something though in understanding all of that that your behavior has followed suit so that you can maintain the weight loss that you’ve seen so far.

Jody: Yeah. Okay, the last thing I had on here and then if there’s anything else you want to bring up, feel free, but I thought it would be interesting to talk for just a minute about hunger.

And this isn’t something that I don’t know that you and I have talked a lot about it, but I just have had kind of an interesting transformation myself, and I’m curious if you’ve seen this with other clients in my relationship with hunger, because, and partly because I’ve had blood sugar issues in the past, and so it wasn’t just hunger, it was like low blood sugar that I would get, which is a much more desperate and immediate crisis than just hunger.

And so as I’ve learned to regulate my glucose, I don’t get blood sugar lows like I used to. I still can on occasion, but nowhere near like I used to. But also there was one time, and this was actually probably back when I was working with Brad, my weight had plateaued for a while and we were trying to figure it out.

And I said something to him like, “But the good news is I’m not really hungry.” He just kind of casually said like, “Okay, well, let’s change this up and maybe have you eat some more this week or whatever. Let’s see if we can get your hunger up again.”

I remember being like, “Wait, isn’t it good that I’m not hungry? Cause then I can not eat.” And to him it was just a casual comment and he moved on. But to me, I was like, wait, what did you just say?

And then all of a sudden I realized that makes sense. Like if I’m in a calorie deficit, I should be a little bit hungry, not starving, not low blood sugar, but like talk about hunger, if you would, for just a moment. And is this just me or do other people have this kind of weird relationship with hunger?

Jenn: It’s not just you. It’s a lot of people. I think they assume because they’re not hungry, they’re eating enough, right? Like that that’s a sign that, “Oh, I’m full.”

Hunger cues play a lot into metabolic rates and your metabolism and how quickly your metabolism is working. If I have a client coming in eating 1200 calories, and they’re not losing weight, and they’re not hungry, well, their body’s adapted to that 1200 calories, and their metabolism is actually slowed down.

And there’s a lot of things that come into play with that and how much you move. Digestion plays into that. But hunger is a good sign of metabolic rate. Like it is a good sign that your metabolism is working if you are hungry.

And so when in terms of weight loss, how does that really, you know, when I try to coach a client, and I see what they’re eating, if they’re coming from a really high calorie standpoint, so if you’re eating a lot of food right now and you want to lose some weight, then you would maybe take about 20% off of what you’re currently eating.

And you would you would pay attention to your hunger. And you would say to yourself, “I’m hungry, but I’m not starving. Right? My blood sugar level is not dropping so low that I’m like eating the house because I’m so hungry.”

But you’re kind of like, I can feel a little bit – I describe it as like a little bit of buzz, where you’re like, “Oh, things are working, I can feel I’m, you know, I’m ready to eat my next meal.” Or maybe when you go to bed at night, you feel like, “Oh, I probably could eat something before I go to bed, but I’m not too hungry before I go to bed.”

Then you wake up feeling kind of leaner. Like, I described that and feeling a little bit hungry as you wake as a great sign that your metabolism is working. That’s what I would say. And, you know, recognizing you had some blood sugar lows, I actually experienced a lot of that myself where my blood sugar will drop. I don’t love going too long, like maybe three or four hours. I try to eat a little bit of protein and, you know, good balance of macronutrients.

But I noticed that throughout the day, I have a good sense of hunger, so I can listen to my hunger. And I feel full after eating a good satiating meal, full to the point where if I eat too much and I’m overly hungry, then I was like, “Oh, I know that that was like way too much food.”

And there’s a lot of things that play into metabolism and your hunger, how much you move in a day, like I talked about, how well your body’s actually in your digestive system. I know a lot of people who have, you know, gut related issues that they don’t feel a lot of hunger.

And so those are all things that as you look at weight loss and you look at your own journey, it’s something to definitely look at. And if you’re not feeling hungry, you’ve probably adapted to wherever you are in your weight loss, like Brad told you.

Sometimes what I tell you is like, let’s do a re-feed. Let’s give your body a little bit more food for a day or two and, you know, you might see a little bit of scale weight come up, but that will shake things up a little bit and then hopefully your body’s like, “Oh, you’re not starving me. Okay, let’s go back to status quo.” And we’ll maybe, you know, not only see the scale come down, but maybe even see yourself finally coming out of that adaptation or that plateau and losing a little bit more weight.

Jody: And that’s what it is, right? Is a constant sort of game of – beause people do say, “Well, I’m worried if I go into a calorie deficit, I’m going to mess up my metabolism.” That’s what we hear, right? And it’s like, yeah, actually you are going to impact your metabolism. That’s why we’re going to monitor it and not go into too much of a deficit or not for too long to try to get the metabolism to not just adjust, right? So that we don’t get the benefit of that deficit.

Jenn: It’s definitely a game. Yeah, there’s some games. There’s some strategies that definitely come into play and every person’s a little bit different.

I have a cute client right now and she’s down 100 pounds and she’s had a lot of weight to lose. So her metabolism has actually not adapted very – like it’s continually losing weight at the rate that she’s at. But sometimes we feed her a little bit more food and then we get more of a result. But every person is just very uniquely different. And that’s why all of this information, people just have to, I think, connect with the things that really work for them and figure out how these principles apply.

Jody: So awesome. Jenn, I sure do appreciate you. I plan to just talk to you at least once a month for the rest of my life, so.

Jenn: I have sure enjoyed working with you, Jody. It’s been so fun. It’s been my pleasure.

Jody: Where can people find you? Because you’re going to have a whole bunch of people that want to get help from you. Where do we send them?

Jenn: My Instagram handle is @berealstrong. I am not superbly active on there, but you can reach out and DM me. My e-mail address is also jenn@keynutrition.com. So those are the two best ways to find me.

Jody: So it’s @berealstrong, Instagram. And Jenn with two Ns.

Jenn: Jenn with two Ns, yes.

Jody: Jenn@keynutrition.com, yeah?

Jenn: Yes.

Jody: All right, thank you Jenn. Thanks for coming on today.

Jenn: Thanks for having me Jody.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 481. How to Lose Weight for the Last Time with Jenn Pinnell appeared first on Jody Moore.

Body for Life: 12 Weeks to Mental and Physical Strength

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Do you ever feel like you’re moving backwards in your progress toward a goal? That despite your best efforts, you end up further from where you want to be than when you started? How do you not get so frustrated and discouraged that you give up?

Backwards progress is something you will inevitably experience, especially if you’re committed to doing hard things consistently. I believe progress is the only option when you’re trying to achieve a goal and that you’ll always gain so much along the way, even if it means your journey looks like you’re falling backwards at times.

Join me this week for a fresh perspective on what progress really means and how to keep moving forward even when it feels like you’re losing ground. You’ll hear how to reframe backwards progress as an opportunity for learning and growth, and practical strategies for staying motivated and committed to your goals, no matter the setbacks or challenges you might face.

If you want to develop a close connection with yourself, like you would with a best friend, you have to come to my brand-new free workshop, How to Be Your Own Best Friend. To register, all you have to do is click here.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why pursuing difficult goals inevitably involves backwards progress at times. * How to redefine progress beyond just the ultimate outcome you’re trying to achieve. * The importance of questioning whether your metrics for success truly align with what you want. * 2 common ways people get stuck in frustration about backwards progress. * Why resistance and challenges are actually signs that you’re on the right track. * How to view progress as seasons rather than a linear upward trajectory.

Mentioned on the Show: Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!* * Come check out The Lab! * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * Elizabeth Gilbert: Your Elusive Creative Genius – TED * Kevin Hart

We all know that we’re not supposed to compare ourselves to others, that the only progress that matters is our own progress, and we’re only in a race against our former selves. But what about when we go backwards? What about when our former self was ahead of where our current self is? How do we not get so discouraged that we just want to give up? This is Better Than Happy, episode 480, Backwards Progress. Let’s do it.

Is it Backward Progress or Backwards Progress? I don’t know. I’m sure somebody will email me and tell me the correct way to say it. Either way, I hope that you know what I’m talking about. And this is a concept that I’ve been thinking about for a long time and have lots of ideas I want to share with you because I think it’s kind of a game-changer in terms of the goals that you’re trying to accomplish now.

Before we dive into it, I’m going to be teaching a free workshop coming up and it’s called How to Be Your Own Best Friend. Sounds intriguing, right? I want you to learn how to have a close connection with yourself like you would with a best friend. So I use that term best friend on purpose because to me it kind of implies somebody that we know so well.

We’ve seen them at their best and we’ve seen them at their worst and we love them because they’re amazing and good. We love even their faults and flaws and we know that they have them. We don’t ignore those. We also can say really honest tough things to our best friends sometimes like, “Hey, what’s going on, dude? You got to turn it around. This is not okay. I’m worried about you,” or “You’re capable of better,” right?

So that’s the kind of relationship I want you to have with yourself. And I’ll just tell you that I want you to have that with yourself because I really do believe that 99% of the problems I coach on come from this problem that if we genuinely had a deeper connection with ourselves, everything else gets easier.

So I thought, let’s teach it for free. And if you want to register, you head to jodymoore.com/friend, because remember, this is How to Be Your Own Best Friend. So again, jodymoore.com/friend.

Now listen, one of the things I want to say about this free workshop, because I do these from time to time, I do send out a replay, but I feel like in today’s world, we’re all so quick to sign up for things because we’re like, “Oh, I can’t be there, but I’ll just get the replay.” And then we never go listen to replays and then we just are building up this sort of library of clutter, digital clutter. And I don’t want you to do that.

I actually want you to just sign up if you can come live. I am going to send a replay out, but unless you’re just really committed, like, “I’m going to watch it that day,” then I would recommend for your sake – it doesn’t affect me at all, but for your sake, do yourself the favor of blocking this out on your calendar and really come and participate because that is how you will get the best result and make the progress I want to offer to you. Okay, so anyway, all the details are at jodymoore.com/friend, the date and time and all of that.

Okay, so let’s talk about backwards progress for a moment here. So I first heard, I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert talking about this years ago in one of her TED talks where she talks about her book Eat, Pray, Love that was a huge hit, huge success, after lots of years of writing and trying to publish and have a bestseller.

It was huge. And the pressure that she felt after that on the next book that she was to write, like she just kind of knew, first of all, she wrote an amazing book, but also a lot of things aligned to make that the bestseller that it was. And that likely she wasn’t going to just recreate that with the very next book. There was a good chance that this book was going to perform not quite as well, at least as the last book.

And she really wrestled with that being okay. How could that be okay, right? Especially because she’d been working on this goal of being a successful author for so long. And I thought, “Oh yeah, that’s fascinating.” I hadn’t really put myself in that position because I hadn’t achieved that level of success to where it’s probably not just going to be recreatable every single time. What must that feel like?

I think, you know, movie stars, celebrities go through this when they have a big blockbuster movie or something and, you know, there’s a good chance that future movies, not every one of them, is going to be a blockbuster. How do you feel okay about that?

Kevin Hart talks about this. I love Kevin Hart, you guys. He’s got a really foul mouth, so you may not want to read his – he has some really funny, awesome, insightful self-help books. I like them, but full of language, forewarned. Anyway, in one of his books, he talks about, he calls it the “can’t-go-backwards monster,” and kind of describes this like being really successful as a comedian and actor and everything, and this part of our brains that’s like, “Well, we can’t go backwards,” especially on something we’ve been working on for such a long time, that even if the progress was slow, it was forward and up and to the right in small increments. And maybe we did go backwards a little bit, but not like a huge dip backwards, right?

Mostly forward up into the right progress. And then to have that reverse all of a sudden, especially once you are successful, you know, in front of a lot of people’s eyes, or at least in your own mind, we can’t go backwards, what? And anyway, I just, I think about that a lot.

And I am not, you know, trying to be that level of celebrity, and maybe you’re not either, but still with regards to our own goals, the things we’re working on, I think we’ve all experienced this or we will at times. And so I want to speak to it and I want to kind of equip us so that we don’t just get overwhelmed and give up when that happens.

So first of all, I like to just remind myself that it happens for anybody trying to pursue something that’s difficult. And what makes goals really fulfilling and rewarding, or I’m going to call it goals, but whatever you want to call it, projects, evolution, growth, what makes those kinds of things really satisfying and rewarding and fulfilling and creates what I like to call joy is the fact that it’s difficult, okay? Things that are easy to do are not very rewarding. They’re just not. It’s not like you shouldn’t do easy things. I’m all for doing easy things.

But the things that really are rewarding, that really build our confidence, that really feel fulfilling, that really light us up in the world, are things that by nature are difficult to do. They probably take a lot of time because they probably take mastering a lot of different skills. They probably require a lot of trial and error. There might be people giving us advice about how to do it, but ultimately we have to figure out our way of doing it. We have to learn to do it by doing it. And so it takes a long time, it’s difficult to do, that’s what makes it rewarding and fulfilling in the end.

And anything that’s rewarding and fulfilling is going to not always be a hit, not always be a win. So I sometimes like to remind myself of that. If there is anybody that we could point to and say, “No, that person won every time and they just kept getting better and better and better,” it’s the kind of task or goal that was easy, at least for them, to accomplish, or they simply quit while they were ahead, which is fine. There’s no shame in that.

I’m just saying there’s no such thing as a person who can continuously improve up and to the right without any stepping back. Maybe Jesus Christ, maybe the Savior who’s perfect, right? But the rest of us, it’s just not even an option.

So first of all, just keep some perspective on that. But then there are three things that I want to offer you today to consider in your own mind when this happens, if this happens, when you achieve success and then you fall backwards.

So the first thing is this. I want you to ask yourself, what is progress? What are we even measuring? What is the outcome we’re trying to create and why? And do we like our reason? I’m kind of astonished at how frequently I do this myself and I see people do this all over, right? People on social media, people doing podcasts, people starting organizations or launching events or trying to lose weight or get healthy or whatever.

We just randomly pick these outcome goals that we’re shooting for without really stopping and asking ourselves, “But is that really what I want to create?” So for example, when I work with coaches who are building new businesses, they often look at their revenue goal. And I’m down with that, that’s great. That could be the outcome that you want to measure or number of clients, right? Something like that, that’s really quantifiable and easy to measure. Great, no problem.

And for many people, that is the right metric. Many people building businesses, revenue, clients is going to be the metric that tells us whether or not what we’re doing is working. Of course, along with impact, are we creating success for our clients? But I would assume that growing revenue and clients is going to be really difficult if you’re not truly creating impact. So those are the things we’re looking at. Okay, great.

But sometimes I like to pause and ask a coach like, “But is that really the goal? Is making more money and having more clients the goal?” Sometimes it is. Other times it’s, “No, I like the number of clients I have right now. Maybe I actually just want to maintain clients and have a better work-life balance and not work so many hours. I want to learn how to not be grinding so hard, how not be doing everything myself, how to delegate some things or hire staff or whatever that’s going to look like.”

So I just think first of all, whatever the progress is, whatever that like I said, that line that goes up and to the right, then we’re just like, “I have to keep going that way.” Is that even what you want to be the most important metric? Just make sure you pause and question that, okay?

Even once you figure that out, what else is included in progress? That ultimate outcome, the number on the scale, the dollar sign on your P&L report, those kinds of outcomes, we tend to put way too much emphasis on, and this becomes problematic. This creates problems for us, right?

So progress in my mind is so many things. In fact, progress is the only option. It is impossible for you to not be progressing if you are trying to achieve your goal. So let’s say you are trying to lose weight. Let’s just go to an example with food and bodies because we’re kind of getting close to the tail end of Make Peace with Food right now. Let’s say you’re trying to lose some weight or you’re trying to just change your eating habits so that you can maybe gain weight or lose weight, whatever, okay?

So then the scale becomes the main outcome that we put our emphasis on, all right. But what are all of the other things that we could consider progress along the way? First of all, a lot of people say, “Well, take photos and take your measurements because that’s progress too,” but I’m not even talking about that. I’m not even talking about your body changing.

I’m talking about progress in the form of something you figured out that doesn’t work. I’m talking about progress in the form of discovering foods that you like that are easy to make that you hadn’t considered before. Or that you are not a morning exercise person and that if you’re going to try to exercise first thing in the morning, that’s always going to be a challenge most likely for you unless something drastic changes or you change something.

I’m talking about people that you meet. I’m talking about little things that you hear or learn, little insights you have, little bits of awareness that you might hear from other people or you might notice with your own self. I’m talking about a connection with yourself. I’m talking about actually trying something and gaining the skill of not giving up even when it doesn’t come as easily as you thought it would.

I’m talking about increasing what I’ve heard call it the “stick-to-it muscle.” The stick-to-it muscle is a muscle or a skill that you can strengthen. The way you strengthen it is by just keeping on sticking to it, and it’s easy to stick to something that’s working really well. You’ll increase it more when you stick to something that isn’t working or creating the ultimate outcome that you’re trying to create.

So do you see why I say the only option is progress? There’s no such thing as not progressing. That’s why I call it backwards progress, because it’s still progress even if you, let’s say, lost weight and then gained it all back, or gained back more, more than you had when you started. You still learned so many things that could be useful going forward.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve been in that exact scenario before. And still, the next time I decided, “Now I’m going to lose some weight,” I’m just adding to what I learned before. I learned how to lose the weight, and then I needed to add on how to keep it off. And I don’t know how many times I will have to go through that process before it becomes a lifelong change. But every time I go through it, I get a little bit closer, okay? So there’s no such thing as going backwards.

There’s just backwards progress, meaning the end outcome, the one metric that we decide is the highest priority might go the opposite direction, but there’s still so many things we’ve learned along the way. There’s people that we’ve met. There’s, I mean, I could go on forever, right? So just be careful about oversimplifying it down to one simple metric.

Okay, the second thing is I don’t want you to even use, and I sort of alluded to this in the first thing, I sort of gave it away, but I want to emphasize it. I don’t like to actually even use the word backwards, okay? I like to remember that it’s all forward. It’s just not always forward and up. Sometimes it’s forward and down. Do you know why? We don’t have a time machine, okay?

So sometimes people say things like, we do this even in a positive. In other words, people say, “I’d like to get back to the weight I was before this baby.” Or “I’d like to get back to making the money I was making in my corporate job. I’d like to go back to that.” And I always say, “Wait, why are we using that word back?” Because we’re not going to go back to anything, we’re only going to go forward.

We don’t have a time machine and I don’t think going back is necessary because if we go back to the way you were, the money you were making or whatever, then we’re going to be back where we were without the learning, the experience, the knowledge, the progress that has come from then until now.

So we’re going to go forward maybe to the weight you were before the baby or the income you were at at your previous job. But we’re not going back to it, we’re going forward to it. Now a lot of people think that’s just semantics. And they’re like, “Yeah, yeah, that’s what I mean.” But it matters.

Because if we’re trying to get back to something, the way that your brain will try to sort through it will not be nearly as useful as if you say, “I’m going to go forward to this point.” Forward means different than what we did before. We have to be seeking for different, or we’re going to end up right back where we are, right? Forward implies that nothing’s gone wrong. Forward implies momentum that’s useful, especially with weight.

People are like, “Well, my whole life I weighed 140 and now I weigh 175.” And I’m like, “Wait a second, your whole life you weighed 140? Like you came out of the womb at 140? Wow, your poor mother.” And in their minds, they just have this set point that they’re stuck on. And that’s a problem. We have to think about the future. We have to think about who you’re going to be going forward. So there is no such thing as backward, it’s always forward.

Okay, third and finally, when that, again, end metric, ultimate outcome indicator has gone down instead of up, or up instead of down, based on what you’re trying to do, I want you to ask yourself, what do I want to make this mean? This is where we get into the most trouble and why people get so overly frustrated and stuck.

So first of all, these are some of the most common things I see people make it mean. There’s two things I think that are super problematic. The first one is some version of, “I knew this couldn’t last forever. Time’s up. That was fun while it lasted, and now it’s over.” And often it’s followed with, “I knew it. I suspected it. I guessed it. I knew this was going to happen,” right?

So I hear people talk a lot about that whole like waiting for the other shoe to drop kind of feeling when things are really good and they’re succeeding, and they’re like, “This can’t last forever.” And then something changes and they’re like, “I knew it. I told you so,” they say to themselves.

Maybe they didn’t know it, maybe they didn’t anticipate it, but it’s usually a version of that time is over now and this is the new reality. You can make it mean that if you want, but you’ll probably be discouraged, you’ll probably give up if you make it mean that.

The second thing I see people make it mean, they let it reinforce the imposter syndrome that they may have had either all along the way or at least in the beginning. So for example, if they’re really successful, you know, as an author, their book becomes successful and the whole while they were uncomfortable or at least in the beginning thinking, “Oh gosh, I hope people don’t find out. I don’t really know what I’m doing. I think I might have just gotten lucky here.”

Then when the next book isn’t as successful, they feel a lot of embarrassment and shame, and this wanting to hide. Like, “Oh no, now people are going to see that I was just pretending, right? I was pretending to be someone who was successful, and it happened that I achieved some success along the way, but it wasn’t real, it was all pretend.”

So those are the two most common things I see happen. So if you’re experiencing any one of those, you’re normal and healthy, but it’s all just stories in our heads, right? None of it’s true, and yet it is true. We can prove it true. Nobody knows what they’re talking about. No matter how successful anybody is, we’re all just making it up.

We’re all just pretending. We’re all worried it’s not going to last or maybe we don’t think about it. We have other things we’re worried about. Like that’s just the nature of it. You’re not unique in that way. Good news, okay? So instead of making it mean something heavy and dramatic like that, let me give you some alternatives.

First of all, it’s really important to allow yourself emotions like disappointment. You might be disappointed, you might even be discouraged, you might be frustrated, that’s okay. I’m not talking about skipping over that and pushing it down, but I would recommend that you lighten up around it a little bit. Don’t make it so heavy and dramatic. It doesn’t need to be embarrassing, it doesn’t need to be this big existential, “See, the market or this industry or myself, I’m not that kind of person.” Ease up on the drama a little bit.

I like to watch out for dramatic thoughts like that with my clients. They’re like, “I just knew I wasn’t the kind of person who could do this.” I’m like, “Whoa, settle down, sister. What does that even mean? Who’s the kind of person who can do this?” Like it’s just so grandiose, these tragic thoughts we have.

So I’m not talking about indulging those. I’m just talking about like, “Huh, that stinks. I really wanted this to keep progressing up and to the right and sucks when it doesn’t. It’s kind of discouraging. I’m kind of frustrated, but all right, I’m just going to take a deep breath, be kind of discouraged. I’m just going to be with this and let myself be bummed about it, but not get all tied up in my head with drama over it.” Are you with me?

Because what you could choose to make it mean is that this is a sign that you’re headed towards something pretty awesome. Because like I said in the beginning, the things that are awesome, the things that make a significant impact in the world or even just significantly change us and evolve us and are super rewarding, super fulfilling, super fun to do, are difficult to do. And the only reason things are difficult is because they’re difficult. Because there’s resistance, because it’s challenging.

So this resistance that’s now won, right? Sometimes we beat resistance and sometimes it beats us. Or sometimes we overcome challenges and obstacles and sometimes those obstacles and challenges overcome us. Those things are a sign that we’re headed the right direction.

So for those of you that are members of the LDS church like myself and you’re familiar with the Book of Mormon, one of my favorite stories in the Book of Mormon is the brother of Jared who is – he and his people are sailing to the promised land. Doesn’t that sound amazing? Now who doesn’t want to go to the promised land? Who doesn’t want to sail to the promised land? Except, let me tell you what this cruise was like, okay?

They had to build these barges that were airtight. There was no light, no air. There’s a whole other component to this story about faith and communication with God and inspiration and all that that I won’t get into. My point is that God says to them, “Yeah, you’re going to be sailing on stormy waters. There’s going to be storms and winds and waves and it’s going to toss your ships about as you sail to the promised land.” And he says, “But I’ve prepared you for this journey and I will continue to prepare you to make it safely.”

Okay, so this is what I’m talking about. When we’re going to the promised land, there’s storms. Why do there have to be winds and waves and storms? Why can’t it just be like a nice sunny smooth cruise ship to the promised land? I don’t know, except that I think that the whole point is to survive the storm. I think that’s the whole point of trying to get to the promised land. I think the promised land isn’t the thing.

I think it’s the journey and overcoming the waves and then the relief that we feel once we do that is what it’s all about. Okay? And we’ve been prepared and we’re continuing to be prepared. Sometimes the storm is preparing us for a future storm. A bigger storm that we’re going to come to contact with, okay?

And so again, I like to be like, “Wow, I must be on to something really big” because the resistance here – and resistance can be literal external obstacles or it can be just within me, these feelings of, “I don’t know if I can do this.” Either way, it’s a sign that I’m headed to the promised land.

The last thing I would offer you to consider, and these are just some thoughts that help me, is I just remind myself that doing hard things is hard. It is, right? It’s sort of a version of what I just told you about resistance, but I just go, “Yeah, doing hard things is hard.” And doing hard things successfully is even harder. Sometimes I try to do hard things and it’s not successful and that’s hard. But doing hard things and then getting to success is even harder.

So it should be hard. And then I remind myself that doing hard things successfully on a consistent basis is the hardest because doing hard things successfully every single time is impossible. Let me say that again. Doing hard things successfully on a consistent basis is the hardest because doing hard things successfully every single time is impossible.

Do you know what I mean? Like doing a hard thing successfully one time is pretty hard. But I could do it one time, pat myself on the back, give myself a high five, collect praise from everyone around me, and then drop out of the game. And sometimes that’s what I choose to do. Sometimes that’s what we want. No problem there.

I’m not saying that’s the wrong thing to do. I’m just saying that’s easier than doing a hard thing successfully and then attempting it again and achieving success consistently because there will be ups and downs. Consistency by nature means a good portion of the time but not all the time and it’s those times when we don’t get there that we have a choice to make. Am I going to get discouraged and give up and believe that the shoe is dropped and it’s just over now or am I going to keep going?

The way that I keep going is that I remind myself that myself, my goals, my journey of trying to lose weight or get healthy, my business, anything else that I’m trying to do, anything else that matters to me, that’s challenging, that takes work, is less like a graph that goes up and to the right, like I wish, and more like seasons. Okay?

So I like to picture still a graph that’s going up and to the right, but it’s spinning and it’s dropping up and down in seasons. In other words, I am still, remember, there’s only progress. There is always progress. So I am always going up and to the right. But it feels like I’m dropping down because I’m spinning as I go, like seasons.

Summer, everything’s light and fun and exciting and it’s working well. And I’m feeling really good about myself because I got some instant wins and that was awesome. But inevitably after summer comes fall, and in fall everything starts to cool off a little bit and the days get a little bit shorter and the wind picks up a little bit and the leaves on the trees start to die and that is when we run into some struggles. Things get a little bit harder. The easy parts of this goal we’ve kind of attacked and now we’re left with some of the more challenging things and that’s difficult, right?

And after fall comes winter when things are really cold and the days are really short. We have a lot less sunlight and the ground is frozen and the plants are dormant and the animals are hibernating and we’re wondering when it’s going to end and it feels like it lasts forever and that is when things get challenging and things aren’t working and we try again and it’s not working. It feels like it goes on way longer than it should.

But after winter comes spring. And in spring, it starts to warm up, we start to get more sunlight. But what I love about spring is spring represents new life, new birth, new flowers blooming, baby animals being born. That is when you literally become a different version of you. You stop fighting through winter and you give in and simply evolve. And you become more knowledgeable, more skillful, more patient, more refined, more confident, and that’s when we end up in summer again.

Seasons, my friends, not a linear up into the right graph. It’s okay to go backwards. You’re not comparing yourself to your past self in just in terms of the basic outcome. You’re simply asking, “Am I continuing to move on and can I do it with kindness for myself?” Because I do believe that the lessons you need to learn, you are already learning. I don’t even think you have to stop and assess them in most cases. They’re already coming with you.

All right, thanks for joining me on today’s episode, everybody. I’ll see you next time. Have a beautiful week, bye-bye.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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Have you ever felt so stuck in your life that change seemed impossible? Are you sick and tired of feeling sick and tired? Maybe you’ve struggled with addiction, depression, anxiety, or other challenges that feel too big to overcome on your own. My guest this week knows exactly how hopeless that can feel.

Becky Garner is a client of mine and a Master Certified life coach who helps women create lives that are so much better than they ever thought possible. After battling a severe opioid addiction for over 15 years, with multiple attempts on her own life out of hopelessness, Becky finally found the tools she needed to break free and create lasting change through coaching.

Join us this week as Becky vulnerably shares her incredible story of transformation from hitting rock bottom in her addiction to finding empowerment through coaching. She shares the value of being challenged on your beliefs, why she made more progress in nine months of coaching than she did in years of therapy, and the importance of trading your self-judgment and self-loathing for self-compassion.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How coaching differs from therapy and why it was the right tool for Becky’s transformation. * Why an “addict” identity can keep you stuck and how to question labels that limit you. * The importance of being open to all tools and resources that could support your growth. * Why your inherent worth cannot be diminished no matter what choices you’ve made. * How to find gratitude and appreciation for your challenges and the lessons they taught you. * Why lasting change is possible no matter how stuck you feel right now.

Have you ever wondered if maybe your challenge or problem is just too big for coaching? Maybe it requires something more clinical, something different. Well, maybe it does, but also maybe not. Maybe coaching is the thing you’ve been looking for. Or maybe coaching in addition to some other tools and resources can really get you the transformation you’re seeking.

Today’s episode is one I’m so delighted to share with you. My long-time client and friend and now fellow coach, Becky Garner has the most amazing transformative story to share with you. This is episode 479, From Addicted to Empowered with Becky Garner.

All right, so I’m very excited to share with you this discussion I had with Becky. She’s going to tell you all about herself. She’s a coach. She is a mother. She’s a member of the LDS church. She is a beautiful woman and I’m so appreciative to her for coming on and sharing this story. This is extremely vulnerable for her to open up and share all of this.

I know you’ll recognize that when you hear her story, but she’s doing it not to try to show off or promote anything specifically of her own, but simply to try to help each of us with whatever might be going on for us. I want you to take Becky’s story and translate it to whatever’s going on for you. You may not be able to relate to her specific challenge, but I guarantee you have an area where you’re stuck, or you have an area where you just believe that it’s hopeless for you, that you’re not capable of changing, or that what you want is not possible in your life.

And I want you to listen to how Becky changes and evolves through this trial to get to an entirely different place, and I want to invite you to do the same. If you want some help doing it, we are going to be offering a complimentary coaching workshop that I’d love to have you join me for. You can head to jodymoore.com/freecoaching. I’d love to provide you some free coaching if you’ve never experienced coaching before.

Becky Garner is a master certified life coach who empowers women who feel stuck to create lasting change by kicking anxiety, worry, self-doubt and self-loathing to the curb and creating a life they love living. After overcoming 30 years of anxiety, depression and a love affair with self-loathing, Becky knows how to help her clients break free from what is holding them back.

She believes that everyone deserves a big full life they love living and that everyone can change. Her most impressive feats include running in the heat of the scorching Las Vegas desert, dressed as a member of Motley Crue, skydiving over the North Shore in Oahu, and learning to love herself unconditionally.

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Jody: Becky Garner, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to have you here today.

Becky: Thank you. I’m so excited to be here.

Jody: Becky is here in a couple capacities. So Becky is a coach, an amazing coach, who has extensive training and experience, but also Becky has been one of my clients and friends. So I really want to begin with your story. You have such an amazing, powerful story about how coaching helped you.

And I think it’s helpful for people to hear whether they’re struggling in the ways that they can relate to you, or in other ways, I think sometimes understanding the application of the tool helps us then apply it. So let’s just dive right in. Tell us a little bit about how you found coaching and what changes you’ve seen and I might interrupt you and ask other questions as you speak.

Becky: Totally interrupt me because I can drone on.

Jody: Me too, girl. This might be a really long episode, everyone. No, just kidding. We’ll edit it down.

Becky: Yeah. So I came across coaching when I – gosh, let me think about this for a second. So it makes sense to me to start a little bit at the beginning, we’ll get into all the dirt here. But when I was about 11, 12 years old, I just started noticing that I was really different than my friends.

I remember sitting on my couch one night and my friends were running around and having so much fun and they were laughing and like really hyper. And there was cute boys over and everyone was having a great time. I was sitting on my couch just observing all of this and I was thinking just really dark thoughts.

I started thinking about, you know, like death and dark things. And I was like, “Why am I different? Why?” I used to be able to laugh and run and play with them. And suddenly I’m sitting on this couch, just shut down, not really wanting to engage and not relating to them anymore.

And so I really started to struggle with depression and anxiety at an early age. And I think looking at my history, I had anxiety as a really young child. I remember like being in first grade and having a lot of anxiety and nervousness about like turning pages or being too loud or saying the wrong thing. And I can even watch my daughter. She’s going to first grade right now. And I see a lot of the similar like anxiety in her coming up.

Jody: Wait, sorry, I want to interrupt you because I know a lot of people listening have kids around that age or kids who they suspect might be struggling without getting too far off track, what do you say to your daughter? Is there anything that you wish, you know, maybe adults in your life would have said to you to help guide you through that phase?

Becky: It’s a really good question. I’m constantly just trying to teach her to be friends with her emotions. Like we make up little characters. Like we make up little characters and we talk to anxiety and I teach her every day to like look in the mirror and tell herself that she loves herself and to like, give herself a little hug and to self soothe. And so I’m constantly passing on a lot of those skills to her. And we’re always talking.

I mean, I give them – I give both of my kiddos just straight brain talk. We’re talking about the amygdala and fight or flight. And it’s amazing to me at six years old, she will understand that. And she’ll talk to me about her brain. Like, “Mom, my brain’s telling me to do this, but I want to do this.” And she can kind of talk herself through it a little bit now, but I don’t know if that kind of answers your question.

Jody: Yeah, no, that’s good, that’s good. Okay

Becky: It’s a lot of like little birds. I think of it as little birds. I want to just drop a little bit on her, not a whole lot, because her brain goes fast, right? Well, just little tidbits at a time.

Jody: And as you share more about all the work you’ve done on your own self and to understand this, it just shows up a little bit more naturally in your language. Like what I kind of like that you’re saying is like, you’re not doing anything hugely, drastically different. It’s just, you think about emotions maybe differently than probably our parents’ generation did. And so you’re addressing it a little differently.

Becky: Yeah. So when I was about 13, that’s when the depression really hit. And I got into like an eating disorder at that time too. So I struggled with an eating disorder for about 15 years and it just got worse and worse and worse as it went on. And by the time I was 16, 17, it was like eating disorder, suicide attempts, and even like self-harm, like my brain was just so dark and so negative.

And I really hid a lot of it. Like people really didn’t know any of that. My parents weren’t very clued into that. And by the time I was 19 years old, I went to college and I stopped just functioning essentially. I slept all day. I’d sleep all night. I stopped showering. Like, we’re just going to get really real.

I would go two weeks at a time without showering. And my sister would be like, “Why is your hair wet all the time? Like, why is it wet?” And it got to a point where lifting my arm to like, even move was a hard thing. It was like, I couldn’t even pick it up to like feed myself or brush my hair or wash my hair. It was so hard to just exist and live.

And at that point it got really bad where I had a suicide attempt that, you know, I ended up in a psych unit, nearly lost my life over it and ended up going to the Center for Change in Orem, Utah for three months for the eating disorder. Went through all of that, came home, and still struggled with a lot of things.

It was really helpful. I did have some therapy. I did that inpatient treatment, and it was helpful, but it just wasn’t the right tools for me. And then I had another suicide attempt that that one was really, really, really bad.

And that one, once again, just almost took my life. And when I kind of came out of that one, I was like, “I’ve got to do something. I can’t seem to die. We’re just going to, like, it’s not working, Becky. God wants you alive. He wants you to go, and we got to figure this out.”

And at that point, I started reading self-help books. And I was like, oh, this is really interesting. I kind of got into like cognitive behavioral therapy just on my own through some self-help books and got kind of interested. And I started taking psychology classes. I ended up graduating in family and human development because I was so fascinated with the brain and with the development and how that all works together.

I ended up working in residential treatment with eating disorders. And then I worked with teenagers and then I went to the psych unit as a staff member, not as a patient this time. And I worked with little kids at the psych unit and I just loved working with them and helping, but I was still struggling with a lot of the stuff at that time as well.

But I’d say by the time I was like 26, I was like, “Okay, girl, like you got it.” I finally could say like, “I want to live, like, I want to be here. I’m feeling a little bit better. I’m feeling more in control of my life.” The eating disorder totally gone at that point, which is amazing because I had been told, “You’ll probably never recover from this.” And I’m just rebellious enough that I’m like, “Watch me.”

Jody: Oh yeah, watch me. Yeah, watch me.

Becky: Like, yes I will, watch me. Cause they’re like, “You’ll probably have depression all your life. You’ll probably have this eating disorder all your life. You’re going to just have to monitor it, take medication.” And I was like, “No, I’m not doing that. I’m going to figure this out.”

So I went to town, like just studying about mental health and everything I could to just help myself. And sometimes I’m like, man, I went after it like an Olympic athlete goes after the gold. Like everything I could read, everything I could watch, everything I could listen to.

So I get to 26, I’m like, okay, I think I’ve arrived, right? And then I end up herniating two discs in my back. I was working at the psych unit with the little kids and we were playing a game called noodle hockey and I just twisted my back wrong and something twinged and I sat down to tie my shoe and I never got back up. Like I couldn’t get back up and I ended up in the emergency room.

And I remember laying on the table there and I told the nurse, I said, “Do not give me pain pills. I like them too much.” Like I already knew at that point in my life that like, I was the person who looked forward to like getting my wisdom teeth pulled because I liked the medication. So I’m like, “Don’t give me anything.”

And she comes back 20 minutes later and she said, “Hey, there’s this other medication called Percocet. It’s non-addictive. Would you like to try it?” This is 2006. We should have known that it was fairly addictive at that point, but she told me it was not addictive. I’d never heard of it. And I was like, “Okay, that sounds good.” If it’s going to get me out of pain, cause I was in such excruciating pain, it’s non-addictive. Let’s try that.

So she gives me the pill, about 15 minutes pass, and I am hit with so much love and gratitude and connection and my wall of anxiety and depression and everything I carried around Jody, it was just gone, completely melted away. And I was – I’d always had this block where I couldn’t connect with people and suddenly I could connect and express to them how much I appreciated them. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I love my husband. I love this nurse people. I’m out of pain.”

What I was experiencing was euphoria from the opioid. I didn’t know that. I thought it was just like connection and love and gratitude. It’s what it felt like to me. So she sends me home and they send me home with a bottle and it doesn’t take me too long to figure out that’s what it was. But at that point, the emotional addiction was already started.

I mean, I had probably twice and I was like, “I never want to be without these pain pills again.” It solved every problem for me in my head. I was like, this is the most effective antidepressant I’ve ever had. That’s what it felt like. It just wears off really fast. And then I need more.

Jody: Oh my gosh. I appreciate you sharing that because I think it’s easy for us to accidentally move into judgment when we hear something about somebody taking drugs or being addicted to drugs or painkillers or whatever, and just write it off as foolish. Sometimes I even see people that you can tell are on something, and the judgment just is the first thing I feel like, “Oh, they’ve made bad choices or what have you.”

But when you describe it that way, when you describe it as like complete love and gratitude and ability to connect with people and ability to share with people, how much you love them and appreciate them, that’s different than I think what most of us initially think of when we think about someone taking drugs, like that is the ultimate that we’re striving for. And that is a good, righteous, maybe spiritual feeling that we’re all seeking for anyway.

Becky: And I hadn’t been able to access it until that moment. I mean, isn’t that crazy? That was the first time I was like, “Oh my gosh, I actually feel love for people.” And it’s confusing in your brain because it is euphoria, but to me, I felt like love.

Jody: Yeah, yeah. Wow, okay. So continue on. So you realize right away that you’re-

Becky: Yeah, I realized pretty quick that like, oh my gosh, I like this. And I can tell it’s the medicine, but I’m also in excruciating pain. Like I couldn’t really walk or crawl or do anything for about seven months. Just stuck like on my back on the floor. They were trying to see if the discs would heal and it took them a month to figure out I’d even herniated the two discs because they thought I just had sprained my back. So it took a while to figure that out.

But I remember a couple weeks into this, my doctor looked at me and he said, “Hey, if you continue to take this medication, you’re going to get addicted.” And my thought was, “I already am.” Like it already happened. Like it was so quick for me. And I’ve talked to other people who were like, they take it for about three days. And they’re like, after three days, I can already feel like the desire to take more.

So back then, I don’t know what they tell people now, but back then the theory was you have about 30 days until you get physically addicted. For me, the emotional addiction was right away, but the physical addiction, meaning my body actually, like your receptors in your brain is craving the opioid in order for you to feel normal. That happened for me in about 10 days. It was really fast because I would miss it and then I would start to like notice the cravings for it, the withdrawals for it.

Like you get little tears in your eyes, you get like runny nose, like you’ll start to yawn a lot. And when it gets worse, it gets like, it’s equivalent to like a heroin addiction. Percocet is a chemical equivalently to heroin.

Jody: Wow. Now, at this point, were you married? Were you still single? Were you living alone?

Becky: I was married, yeah.

Jody: You were married. Okay, so did your husband realize what was happening?

Becky: No, I mean, I talked to him about it a little bit, just like, okay. I remember, so I had back surgery. And after back surgery, I knew it was time to give up the pills and it was really, really hard. And so I talked to him a little bit about that because I was like, “Okay, I could tell this is really tough for me to give up.” And I flushed all the pills down the toilet and I cried for like a solid day because I knew it was over. So we had talked about it a little bit. And at that point, I was still taking the medicine as prescribed.

Jody: Right, okay.

Becky: Okay, so I wasn’t abusing it or taking too much or anything. And so he knew a little bit, like he understood, but I kept a lot of it back. Then we go on and I end up herniating another disc. So once you herniate one disc, you get like almost like a domino in your back. It’s called degenerative disc disease where you can just like herniate another one. Like I would sneeze and herniate a disc.

I would bend and pick up my car keys. I would herniate a disc. And the scar tissue from the surgery actually grew and attached to my sciatic nerve. So the problem we tried to solve became permanent. So the solution was like, let’s just go back on more painkillers. One, because if I’m honest, I liked it. I was like, let’s bring that back in my life. Right? And then two, it was so painful for me to like stand. Like I couldn’t stand more than 15 minutes. I couldn’t sit more than 15 minutes. I was constantly having to shift. I was up all night. It was a really hard way to live.

So it gave me a life and I’m grateful for that because it gave me a life to get up and start moving again. But what happens is as you start to take them, your body gets used to them. Now one pill no longer works and you’re like, did I take that pill? I don’t think I took that pill. Maybe I’ll take another one.

And then you realize, oh, I did take two, but that feels even better. And then two becomes three and three becomes four. And I started just abusing them really quickly. And this went on for a long time. And it got up to where I would take like 15, 20 pills at a time.

Like I very much should have been dead at this point. Your body can’t handle that, right? You just have to build up a tolerance to it. And the withdrawals would get more and more intense. Like if I missed medication or if I went more than 24 hours without it. I mean, we’re talking one time I went off of it and I got rid of the pills.

I’m like, “I’m done, I’m over. Like my life is crazy right now. We can’t do this.” And I ended up under four giant blankets. Like four big, huge piles of blankets and I’m just shivering and I’m freezing and I’m just aching to the bone and I had a non-stop panic attack for two weeks, like with my heart just beating out of my chest constantly, you know, just all of the things.

And I tell people like there’s the physical withdrawal that you get with it, like the throwing up and the tears and the nose and the eyes and the sickness and the stomach problems and the chills. But what people don’t talk about a lot is there is no serotonin in your brain.

So as soon as you go off of Percocet or any opioid, your brain essentially has all these receptors and has no medicine for it. And you go into massive amounts of fear. Like the fear is so intense because there’s no serotonin that like can keep up with everything that’s been created in your brain.

And I feel like it’s like if God was taken out of the world. Like if you were to take God completely out of the world and there was nothing good left, there was nothing beautiful or spiritual or love and you have pure fear, that’s what withdrawal feels like. And it lasts for about two weeks. And you would think like, okay, do that once and you’ll never do it again. But the way addiction works is you go right back to it.

So like for 15 years, this was my pattern. I would be on it for three to six months, sometimes nine months, I would get off of it. I’d be like, “Okay, I’m done. Like I can’t continue this, I’m going to die.” And then I would go through these massive, horrible withdrawals. And then I’d have about three months where I could stay clean. And it was almost around like the three to four month mark that I would end up just going right back into it.

My brain just like, it lights back up. The problem is that when you go into an area where like maybe you’re used to getting it from a pharmacy or wherever you’re going, you know, a street or whatever, you know, I never went to the street, but for me going past the pharmacy, my brain would actually go back into withdrawals.

So it physically will put it right back into withdrawals. So you think that you’re all clean and good, But then all of a sudden, once again, your eye starts running, your nose starts running, the cravings go up really loud. It’s hard.

Jody: Wow. 15 years.

Becky: 15 years. And I was a mom, right? So I had two children during this time. Okay. And I was a primary teacher, and I was the primary chorister. And I taught a music studio. I taught group piano lessons all during this, and I just kept it completely hidden.

Jody: Did you have a lot of self-judgment during this?

Becky: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Jody: I just can imagine that I would. And in trying to pretend, right?

Becky: Yeah, trying to pretend, the self-loathing, yeah.

Jody: What was that like?

Becky: It feels like two personalities, right? Like you’re like, I’m loving and I’m kind and I did everything for my kids. My oldest son is autistic and I was constantly like taking parenting classes and trying to figure him out and help him. And there was many years when he was younger that our house felt like World War III. It was just, you know, he was biting, he was kicking, he was screaming, it was so intense. And I was a really good mom, like I was a dang good mom, and I was an addict.

Like it’s that, you talk about that a lot, but I’m like, it’s so true. I was a dang good mom, I tried so hard. I took him to all the OT, I took him to all the things, we did everything that we could possibly do. I was constantly teaching him about his brain, loving him, helping him. And getting my pills, right? It’s hard not to have a lot of self-judgment for yourself in that situation. But that’s really what I had to heal myself from, for sure.

Jody: All right, so then what changed for you?

Becky: Well, this person came in my life named Jody Moore. That’s what changed for me. I mean.

Jody: That was a perfect setup. I didn’t plan that. I really don’t know the details of how you found me or anything. I know the parts of your story, but-

Jody: So what happened is I had gone to outpatient rehabilitation. So I was going to that. And at that time I was like, “I got to tell my family.” So I had told my sister, I had one sister that I told that I’d been struggling with this. And she called me like two months later and I happened to be – I had finished the outpatient treatment and I happened to be like clean and sober at the time, but it was hitting that like three month mark or I typically would go back to it.

Jody: So wait, sorry to interrupt you. I just, I’m not as familiar with these processes. So an outpatient rehabilitation center is like where, typically where someone would go to like, okay, I wanna get clean. I wanna get off of this. And outpatient, meaning you’re not staying there overnight. But you’re going regularly.

Becky: Yeah, so it’s a day treatment program. No, I would go in. So I would, at the time I had a one-year-old daughter. So I would take in my one-year-old daughter every single day and wait with all the other addicts and I would go in and we would just go over my medication and what they do is they slowly wean you off the medicine that you’re on.

So they give you a substitute, Subloxone is what I want to call it. I think that’s correct. So they give you that so you’re off of the medicine and I want to clarify too, I got really addicted to Percocet but what I ended up being super addicted to is called Tramadol and I think it’s important people to know because tTramadol is also an opioid medication.

It’s more frequently prescribed because people know about the dangers of Percocet now. But there are those of us who get really addicted to tramadol as well. It was actually more effective for me.

So that’s just something to kind of be aware of because a lot of people think, “Oh, Tramadol is like, it’s not that big of a deal.” But your brain can get super addicted to it. The withdrawals were actually harder for for me on Tramadol, that it worked better.

Jody: Okay.

Becky: Okay, so they take you off the medicine that you’re on, and then they give you like a substitute that is just a little bit less so that your body doesn’t go into withdrawal, and then they can slowly wean you off. So every day I’m going in, they’re just checking on me, and then they’re slowly giving me a smaller dose, and a smaller dose, and a smaller dose. And we’re doing that over about 45 days. And the goal is to lessen the withdrawal effect so that you have a better chance of actually getting off.

Jody: I see, okay. So that’s what you’d done, and then you could go about three months and then the emotional kicks back in and the cravings and urges.

Becky: Yeah. So prior to that, I had always just ripped myself off. I just like finished the bottle and I’m just going cold turkey.

Jody: I see.

Becky: So this is the one time I was like, I’m going to have somebody help me. And I was hoping that I would get like more therapy and more help. It was really just kind of like a medical withdrawal approach.

Jody: Okay. Okay.

Becky: Yeah. So at this point, I am, like I said, about three, three months sober. And my sister called me up and just said, “Hey, I have this thing in my life. It’s called life coaching. You may be familiar with it, you may not. There’s this person named Jody Moore and she does this program and it’s, you know, for life coaching.” And I was like, “That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.”

Jody: Yes, I love it. That’s what I thought too, actually.

Becky: I was like, that is not going to help me. Because here I am, I’m like, a professional at cognitive behavioral therapy at the time because that’s what it sounded like to me. I’d already worked in residential treatment. I had a degree in this stuff. I was like, “Oh my gosh, girl, this is not going to help me.”

So being like the good sister that I am, I was like, “All right, I’ll, we’ll give it a shot, whatever.” And I listened to your podcast on decision-making. That was it, I just turned it on. I listened to it for 20 minutes and I was blown away, Jody. I was like, “What, what is this? Like, Oh my gosh, what is this?” I’m so curious. I listened to a few more podcasts. I’m like, this is different. Like there’s something different that I have never heard here before.

And so I decided to join your program. I signed up for it. And I have such a stark memory of sitting outside in my raspberry bushes, Like I’m, you know, supposed to be weeding my raspberries, but really I’m like staring into space because I’ve got this trowel and it’s like full of dirt and it’s like spilling dirt on my pants. And I’m just staring off in the distance, just listening to you coach. And I was blown away by it.

And I think one of the first calls I heard as I listened to you talk to a mom with a son who was smoking a lot of marijuana and you had no judgment in your voice. Like I could hear that you love the mom. I could hear that you love the son. I could hear you walking her through all of that. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, somebody is smoking marijuana and somebody can love them. That’s incredible to me. And they can hold all of that for them.”

I was just so in after that. I just dove in and I’m telling you, like I never touched a pillow after that moment. Never, never had a relapse. It’ll be four years in November for me.

Jody: Wow. Now you also have done a lot of other work on yourself. Please be clear, everyone. I didn’t bring Becky on to be like, “Hey everyone, I’m the magic solution.” But there was something about then it sounds like understanding the power of like choosing your thoughts, right?

Becky: There was the power of choosing my thoughts.There was the power of questioning what I was believing, the power of questioning like, where did this come from? And how did it get in my brain? And do I wanna keep that? There was so much work in being able to tolerate feelings.

You know, like when you’re an addict, you’re just used to shoving your feelings away, right? And learning to make friends with my feelings and bring them into my body and witness them and see them and understand them.

And then really for me, it was healing my relationship with myself, like learning, as you were talking about with self-judgment, learning to love myself, learning to see myself, learning to forgive myself and have compassion. And I think that moment that I remembered with you speaking about that mom, it’s like that little door that opened up that I could have that possibility too, like maybe I could have gone through this experience and I can love myself.

Jody: Oh, that’s powerful. I want to get in in just a minute to what you do today because that’s largely what you help people do today, right? Talk to me about, I know I heard you teach one time about sometimes we separate out, well, these problems need therapy and these ones need coaching.

And I’ve even taught people that before. I’m like, there’s certain things that coaching doesn’t handle. And I thought it was interesting the way you presented the idea that actually it’s up to your client to decide or that maybe, maybe it’s not as black and white. Would you speak a little bit to your thoughts on that? Your experience with both?

Becky: Yeah. So, I mean, I loved – I have so much respect for therapists and I love the therapists that I work with. It just wasn’t the right tool for me. So I just think about it in terms of tools. It was really good for me to talk and feel validated in that sense.

Jody: But at what point did you end up trying therapy?

Becky: I went to therapy first when I went to the Center for Change and then I had a therapist that I loved. For my eating disorder, I had a therapist after that for about a year and a half. And then I did therapy a couple of different times after that. And I definitely tried therapy for the addiction.

Jody: You did, okay.

Becky: That did was not, that did not work for me.

Jody: Okay, why not?

Becky: I think part of it was the therapist himself was not a good fit for me. He honestly, like he diagnosed me with a personality disorder within three sessions of meeting me, which is really weird without like testing me or anything. And I was like, “No.”

Jody: I feel like it’s sometimes when we have this discussion on the podcast or in places about like coaching or therapy or what’s the difference or whatever, whatever bad mouthing therapy, but also it feels a little unfair to just say therapy. It’s like such a big umbrella.

Like there’s so many different kinds of therapists. And I do think you have, just like there’s so many different coaches and you have to kind of find the right one for you that has the right approach, the right connection or whatever. And there’s so many different methods of therapy. And so for whatever reason though, whatever you tried, you weren’t making a lot of progress with, right?

Becky: Yeah, I wasn’t making a lot of progress. Like I said, it was validating, it was good to talk, it was nice to have someone to hear me. So when I went to therapy for my addiction, the first thing, of course, that happens is I was given a diagnosis. Like I was told, “Okay, you’re an addict, you have a substance abuse problem,” and a diagnosis can be super, super helpful, right?

My son, when he was diagnosed with autism, it was one of the most helpful diagnoses out there because I realized it wasn’t me, It wasn’t my fault, I wasn’t a horrible parent that was causing all these problems. It’s just that he was differently wired. So a diagnosis can be so helpful.

Also, when I went for addiction, they explained my brain to me, which was also really helpful. This is how addiction works in the brain. I was told that addiction is a brain disease. I would have it all of my life. And I was told that, you know, I probably need to attend like meetings, like an AA meeting or, you know, the church’s recovery program meeting, have support around me, make sure I’m never around pills, like different things like this. And then I was also given statistics on my recovery rate.

So the first year, an addict has about a 95% chance of relapse. The second year, it goes down to about 90%. Third year, he told me about 85%. And then after that, it’s about 50% chance of relapse. The brain just kind of keeps healing and getting better and better and better.

So I think what happened for me is my brain made a transaction during that conversation, which sounded like, “I’m an addict. This is permanent. I’m going to have all of my life. And I only have a 5% chance of making it through this first year,” 5%, which filled me with fear and panic. And I don’t know how I’m going to do this.

It was also helpful because it helped explain why I’d been struggling with this for 15 years, like why I could never make it past three or four months. So that was very validating and good to know, and it was really good to understand my brain.

But this transaction that happened of this identity that I took on, this thought that is absolutely permanent, and I only have a 5% chance of making it, that’s what made it really hard for me.

Let’s contrast that with my experience in coaching, talking about addiction. So the very first time I was coached, I was coached actually by Chantal Allen at Be Bold Masters. She was there coaching. And she challenged me on my identity that I was carrying around of being an addict. She just said, “Hey, you might want to consider this identity that you have of being an addict and how it’s affecting your life.”

And I thought that was kind of silly because I was like, “Well, I’m an addict. Like I have lots of evidence. I know what this is. Like, that’s kind of weird.” But I just took it home and it started spinning around in my brain. Okay, when I think I’m an addict, like how do I feel? And how does that affect my behavior and what I’m doing? And what is that creating for me in my life?

And then the next time I was coached, I was challenged on my beliefs around the recovery rates, but these are absolutely true. Like I only have a 5% chance of recovering. I was challenged on the statistics I was given and the coach even challenged me on the brain disease theory. Like this is a theory. This is one person’s theory. It doesn’t mean it’s a fact. There’s lots of other theories about addiction out there in the world. You might want to go explore them.

So it just started opening up my brain and expanding it in ways that I had never thought about it before. And as I’m doing that, right, that reticular activation system in your brain that wants to like start focusing and looking on the evidence for what you’re starting to believe, it started to notice other people who had recovered really quickly, other people who didn’t fall into that 5% chance of recovery like they just recovered and they were done. They didn’t relapse over and over and over again.

I read a story about a man who’d been a raging alcoholic for 30 years and then he just decided he was done. He was like, I’m done. And the crazy thing is, is he went on to drink like one glass of wine every day for the rest of his life, but he never fell back into alcoholism. It just blew my mind that that was possible because I thought, “Oh, if they have a drink, they’re out of control. Like this is something you got to be scared of. You can’t be around the thing you’re addicted to. You can’t ever have it. You can’t ever be near it.”

And it just started challenging my thinking and expanding my brain. Also when I was in master coach training, I was challenged around a lot of the shame that I had around my addiction, the shame and the self-loathing and the guilt that I was carrying.

I hit my two-year mark of being sober. And I told the group, I’m really grateful. And everyone was like, “I’m so proud of you. We’re so proud.” And I was like, “I’m not proud. I feel terrible. Why would I be proud? I don’t want to be proud of not taking pills when I’m a mom. I don’t want to be proud of like, oh good, I didn’t take pills and go to primary today. Like that sounds terrible to me.”

But they really challenged me around my thinking about that. And after a couple coaching sessions, I really did learn to find that proud feeling in my body that I had overcome such a hard thing, that I found love and gratitude for the experience, just so much love for myself and appreciation for myself.

And I’ll just be really honest, I made more progress in nine months of coaching than I did in all the years of therapy, all the inpatient, all the outpatient, all the different therapists that I went to. Coaching was just such an effective tool for me. I remember when I went to coaching, it felt like I discovered that I was in jail and I didn’t even know I was in there. I was like, oh my gosh, I’ve been in jail this whole time and I didn’t even know I was in there because it felt like somebody like let me out and took my handcuffs off.

I had the freedom to start challenging different beliefs, the different ways I think about things, and my mind just expanded and became adaptable and flexible. And I think what’s really cool is ultimately that very first coaching session where Chantel challenged me on my identity as an addict, ultimately I decided to keep that identity.

When I thought about being an addict, I didn’t feel like shame or remorse or guilt because I’d had so much coaching, I worked on it so hard. It just felt like true and it felt protective and safe. Like, yep, I just want to let people know I’m an addict. I want to go to doctors. I want to let them know I’m an addict, like keep the pills away from me. I don’t want to be around it.

And what’s cool is as I’m talking about it right now, that identity of being an addict, it actually kind of feels really far away. So at some point I’m going to be like, I don’t need that identity anymore. And I can just choose to release it and it’s no longer a part of my life.

To have somebody question and go like, “Okay, you were told that you were going to have depression all of your life, but is that, you know, let’s question that, let’s talk about, like, is that helpful to you?” And it really came to the conclusion that like, for me, it’s not. You know, for some people it might be helpful to see that, but for me, I was like, “I’m going to just stop thinking of myself as somebody who’s depressed. And it changed so many things to myself.

Jody: Isn’t that crazy to think like, you’re just allowed. You’re allowed.

Becky: You’re allowed.

Jody: And some people are like, “Well, I can’t believe that. My doctor told me this.” Okay, that’s fine if you can’t, but if you can and you want to, you’re allowed.

I was listening to somebody on YouTube the other day and he’s talking about business and marketing and abundance versus scarcity mentality and stuff. And he said something about the recession. What was it, 2008 or whatever, when we had a recession.

Becky: Yeah, 2008.

Jody: And he goes, he just casually goes, “And then there was a recession in 2008, which I chose not to participate in.” And then he just went on and I was like, yeah. Yeah, no, not participating.

I mean, we have a lot more choices than we realize, and it starts with what’s happening in your mind. And it seems like that’s what you caught a glimpse of, right, even when you’re talking about me coaching the mom with the son with marijuana. It’s so interesting because like marijuana seems like mild compared to what you were struggling with, right?

But you can see, you were able to see the connection of like, oh, we don’t have to make somebody right and somebody wrong and somebody’s in trouble and somebody needs, like, we can just like step back from all this and find the loving way to approach it. And I love that light bulb for you.

Becky: It was such a light bulb. And I think just to wrap up this conversation we’re talking about like therapy and coaching, right? We’re kind of talking about that initially, is it’s just finding the right tool. Which one works for you? Coaching was like the right tool for me. And I coach all the time on things that people would normally take to therapy.

The people who end up coming to me, they’re people who have just struggled their whole life. Like most people are like, they have a lot of anxiety. They have a lot of depression. They’ve had it since they were just like me, 11, 13 years old. I get a lot of women say that it happened right about then, about 13 years old. And they’ve tried therapy, they’ve tried medication, and it’s not the right tool for them. But coaching has been an absolute life-changing tool for them.

Jody: Yeah. I’ve had a lot of that.

Becky: It’s not one’s right and one’s wrong. It’s just like, let’s find the right tool.

Jody: And it’s also not an either or. I’ve had a lot of people in your same boat who say, “This is just a better fit for me,” but also a lot who, you know, have said, “Okay, like the therapy was helpful, but now I needed more.” Or sometimes when I’m coaching someone, I just like to make sure no one is shutting down any options that to them feel like they could be helpful.

So sometimes I will say like, “It’s not a bad idea to check with a therapist or, you know, somebody clinical.” And we just want to be open, I think, to whatever could be helpful and not shut down anything, I think is the best approach.

Becky: Not categorize it, like this person handles this and this person handles this because I can go to somebody and if I feel really good and comfortable and they feel good and comfortable, man, we can get a lot of work done.

Jody: And for those people listening who are coaches like us, we have a lot of coaches that listen to this podcast, to make sure that you’re not like turning away clients or like letting your own fear shut down help you might be able to provide somebody, right?

I do think that you can be open to like, first of all, I can’t prescribe medication. I can’t, there are certain things, right, that I can’t do, but the basics of mental and emotional health are what we do as coaching. And that is not going to be not useful to anybody, right?

I love what you said, Becky, which was, you said that for you, coaching was the better fit and you were glad that it was available to you because it’s really not up to the coach even to decide or a doctor to decide, right? It’s up to the patient and the client ultimately to decide in the end what is going to help.

Becky: I mean, for me, life coaching is what saved my life. When I came across your podcast, when my sister referred me over to you, I was at a point where I knew like deep in my gut, I was like, if I don’t fix this, my one-year-old daughter’s going to find me on the couch dead very, very soon. It had gotten so bad. So to me, life coaching is life-saving. It absolutely saves lives.

Jody: And then you came to one of my, at least one of my live events, right? Like a coaching retreat thing. Yeah, you’ve been to a few. So fun. And then you decided to become a coach.

Becky: Yes. So I loved it so much. I went into coaching like many coaches do just because it was so transformational and helpful to me. I wanted to understand the skills and the tools even better. And I just dove deep in. And I think before I went to, into coaching, I had actually gone to your Be Bold Masters. That’s the one that I went to.

Jody Which was like a multiple day kind of coaching retreat thing.

Becky: Yeah. It was like a five-day multiple, yeah, we coached like eight hours a day, like almost 40 hours a week. That was the last time.

Jody: We should do that again.

Becky: Oh my gosh, we should. It was so good.

Jody: That was fun.

Becky: Anyway, that was life-changing to me because I watched for eight hours a day just listening to other people get coached and I kept seeing this theme just like kind of pop up all the time.

And it was a big theme in my life. And I don’t know if you remember, I think it was Christine was coaching me. It was the very first day and we were all kind of like nervous and we were in the smaller room. There’s just 20 of us. And Christine was coaching me and she was talking about, or I was telling her about my son who had stomped on my dog’s back. I don’t know if you remember that, but that was a long time ago.

Jody: I do actually vaguely have a memory of this, actually, now that you’re saying it. Yeah.

Becky: So we had been camping the night before and I told my son, the one with autism, like no screens. That was, I was like, “You can’t have screens. We’re in the mountains, screens are off.”

And he’d come up to me and said, “Mom, can I turn on the phone?” And I said, “No, there’s no screens.” And his response was to scream and stomp on the dog’s back as hard as he could. At which point I grabbed his shoulders, yelled at him and I pushed him to the ground.

And I started crying because I felt so horrible about grabbing his shoulders and pushing him to the ground. And I had these urges to like, I wanted to hurt him. I wanted to hit him. I wanted to push him down. I was worried about my dog and then I was angry at myself.

I was trying to explain this to Christine and she kept pointing out to me that I was judging myself. I was like, “I’m not judging myself. I’m a terrible mom.”It was just such a fact to me. I grabbed my kid. I yelled at him. I pushed him on the ground. I’m a terrible mom. And I could not see the judgments that I was having for myself.

And I remember you standing up in front of me, because this is my first experience like seeing you. And it was like the laser beam Jody eyes staring into my soul.

Jody: I’m so scary.

Becky: I know, it was intimidating in that moment. You said, “When you stop judging yourself, you will stop judging your son.” And that moment changed so many things for me. First of all, I was angry because I was like, that was the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Like, I’m not judging myself. I just need you to fix me.

Jody: Help me stop yelling at him.

Becky: Yeah. Help me stop yelling at him. Tell me what’s wrong with me so I can fix me. But then over the next like four days, I just watched that theme come up over and over and over with people. Like every time I heard people get coached, I saw them either judging someone else, but mostly I saw them judging themselves and getting stuck in that judgment.

And I walked away from that retreat just knowing if I could stop judging myself, I could change everything about myself. And that’s what I went to town doing. It’s like with all the coaching I started doing, I’m like, “I’m going to just work on my self-judgment. I’m going to stop hating myself. I’m going to stop putting myself down. I’m going to stop the self-loathing and really working on that.”

And that’s one of the big things I focus on with my clients, because I find when we can move out of self-judgment, then we get unstuck. And it opens that door and start getting traction to where we want to.

Jody: And it feels so counterintuitive. It feels like, well, help me stop yelling at my kid and then I won’t have to judge myself. Help me be better at it so that I don’t have to judge me. Help me stop eating junk food. Help me stop succeeding my business or whatever it is.

And what we mean is, no, stop judging yourself where you are. Not like get a little bit ahead and then you’ll stop judging. Like where you are right now, stop judging you.

And I think that people, I don’t know, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. I know we’re running out of time, but like, we think that it’s either I judge myself and say I’m a terrible mom because of how I just treated my son, or I have to go, “No, I’m a great mom. It’s okay to yell at kids. It’s okay to hit kids or push kids or whatever.”

Like, I’m like, what, if those are your only two options, then you’re back to what we’ve talked about earlier, which is like not realizing that you can think about this any way you want to, any way you want to. And there are millions of possibilities, right?

Like, I don’t know. I just want to be like, what if we just went to something, it doesn’t have to be so negative, and it doesn’t have to be super positive. It could just even be a little bit more neutral like, “Well, some days I’m a great mom and some days I’m not, and that’s okay. I’m a human mom.” It’s a little bit more neutral.

You don’t have to be, go all the way to like, “That was awesome how I treated him,” but that’s why, like what we literally say is stop judging. When you’re supposed to not tell kids stop running at the pool, you’re supposed to say walk at the pool. So I think the question that is in people’s minds is like, well, if I’m not going to judge myself, what am I going to do instead?

Becky: Yeah, yeah. And for me, it was learning to love myself where I was at.

Jody:Yeah.

Becky: It was learning to be with myself right where I was at.

Jody: How do you do that? Or what did that sound like for you, especially in the beginning?

Becky: Yeah, like I’m angry and I’m upset and I don’t like what I did. I don’t like that choice that I made, but there’s a reason why I made it. There’s always a good reason why I think the way I do.

There’s always a good reason why I act the way I do. I don’t know what that is, but I’m just going to try and love myself through it. That’s what it sounded like to me. We’re all just doing the best that we can, right? We’re all doing the best we can with the emotional capacity that we have. We all do the best we can with the emotional capacity that we have.

And if my best in that moment was to grab my son’s shoulders and push him down, that was my best. I couldn’t have done anything else because we’re always doing our best.

And I’m just going to love myself and just like try and understand myself and give myself grace and compassion for that moment. Just like I work on giving myself grace and compassion for the addiction I went to. I even found a lot of gratitude for the addiction I went through.

My sweet little husband, he had me sit down like the last time I had a bottle of pills and he said, “I think you should tell your pills thank you.I think you should sit down and just like them thank you,” and we sat down together.

Jody: What do you thank them for?

Becky: I thank them for – we said a little prayer together and I held them in my hands and I was like, “You know what thank you for getting me through autism. Thank you for all helping with all the pain that I had in my back, for all the suffering that I had in my back. Thank you for helping me to feel connected to people. It was the first time I ever felt connected to people. Thank you for getting me through a miscarriage. I don’t know how I would have gotten through losing a baby and losing a child without the help. Just thank you for being there and thank you for helping me. And I don’t need you anymore. And I have the skills now that I can help myself and I know how to manage myself now and I can say goodbye to you.” And then we went through it.

Jody: What I love so much about that is when you said that you’re even thankful for the addiction and everything in the pills, I feel like our tendency is to go, I’m so glad I had that terrible, hard thing because now I’m stronger, better, wiser. I discovered – you discovered coaching, you became a coach, et cetera.

But what you’ve done is you’re still not even villainizing the pills, you’re still recognizing. And that’s, I think, the ultimate power, right? Because if we’re still afraid of the pills and we’re still making them really bad and really addictive and really scary, we’re still giving them a lot of negative power that we don’t want.

So what you’ve done is you’ve acknowledged like, no, these, first of all, can be used in a lot of good ways. And second of all like made me happy and made me, right? Like we, you haven’t even villainized the pills. And it just takes the power away a little bit. It neutralizes a little bit that power, right? So that you can say, and I don’t need you.

And that’s true in so many areas of our lives. That’s true in relationships, right? We don’t have to find a reason to hate someone to leave a relationship. We don’t have to villainize anything to just decide either we’re done with it, or it’s just not for us.

Becky: Yeah. For villainized sugar or junk food or anything like that.

Jody: Yeah. I’ve found that I can find a lot more success saying, I love that kind of food and I just don’t need as much of it as I used to. I’m not going to be allowing as much of it. It doesn’t love my body back. Right? So anyway, that’s so good. Well, I know you have a really great tool also that you offer that feeling stuck. So tell us about that.

Becky: Yeah, for sure. So I think because self-judgment and self-loathing was such a big thing in my life and being able to work with it and know how to, you know, I would say ditch self-judgment, but you’re right. It’s more like holding self-judgment’s hand, right? Being able to just like be with it.

So I created a video course for people who just feel really, really stuck and feel like they’re just on this rinse and repeat. And what I found over and over again, especially with my clients that struggle with a lot of anxiety and depression and mental health issues is what is keeping us stuck is that self-judgment.

And so I made a video course series. It’s just four short videos. You get them once a day and it talks about how to get unstuck, troubleshooting that unstuckness, and then get unstuckness. I think I just made that word up.

Jody: I like it. I’m in.

Becky: And then it’s like a little bonus practice in there. So it really just walks you through that process of how do I stop, like, number one, why does self-judgment keep us stuck? And then how do I work with it in a way that I can start loosening it and get that engine going so I can start doing the things that I want to do with my life and really to start creating lasting permanent change in my life.

I had a story I really wanted to share. It’s a pretty vulnerable story, but I think it’s really powerful. And at least it was really powerful for me, and I hope it’s powerful for everyone who’s listening.

So let’s go back to when I was at the end of my addiction. I, not the end, but I was towards the end and I had just finished this outpatient program. So 45 days of taking my one-year-old daughter down to outpatient program, kind of detoxing and weaning off all of the meds.

It was a big sacrifice for my family. It was a financial sacrifice. It was like I had tried everything at that point to be able to get clean and I couldn’t do it. This had to be it. This had to be the thing or I didn’t know what I was going to do.

And even like the withdrawal that I went through during that program, it was so horrible. It was two weeks of not sleeping at all. And I would stay up all day and I would be up all night. I would try and fall asleep, but you’d wake up about 10 seconds later because your adrenaline is so high from the withdrawal.

And I remember looking at the temple out my back window. The South Jordan temple is just bright and beautiful in my back window in my front room. And I would sit all night and wait for the lights of the temple to come on.

They would turn off at midnight and my whole house would feel so dark and scary and horrible. And I would just wait all night for those temple lights to come back on at like five o’clock in the morning. It was a really, really difficult time in my life.

So I finished that up and I was about three months out of that experience, from that withdrawal experience, from going to the outpatient program. So I was clean for three months when I found myself in my kitchen with a bottle of Tramadol. And I couldn’t even tell you where I got this medication from. I don’t even know how I got it, where I got it, how that came about. I just, I had it, it was in my cupboard.

I put it in my cupboard and all I wanted was to have it in my cupboard and to not touch it. Like, could it just please be in my cupboard and I can just leave it alone. But I find myself walking back to the cupboard, opening the cupboard, walking back to the cupboard, taking it out, looking at the bottle. Third time, I fiddle with the lid on the bottle.

Fourth time, I open the bottle. Fifth time, I pour a little bit of pills into my hand and just kind of count them. Sixth time, I go back, pour out the normal amount that I would take, put it back in the bottle.

I keep doing this over and over again. Finally, I pour out the normal amount I would take, kind of just think, screw it, I don’t care, and I take the pills. And I’m instantly hit with so much shame and self-loathing and guilt and anger and upset.

It was just a wash of intense emotion. And it was really confusing because it was also mingled with relief. Relief that I no longer had to face all of these cravings. I knew that this thing that my body just craved so much, my brain craved so much was on its way. And there was also like a little bit of excitement that I get to feel it again. So a lot of intense emotions.

And in order to try and get away from the emotions, I decided to just distract myself by running to the store really quick. I was like, I’m going to just run to the store. I can make it there. I can make a home before the medication kicks in. It’ll be fine. So I load up my daughter who is, she’s probably like 14 or 15 months at that time, get her in her car seat, put her in her car, drive out and just run to the store really, really quick.

And I am about a mile away from my home when the pills hit so hard. And they had never hit me that hard before. Normally when I took medication, I just felt energetic and light and a little bit happier. Like I would felt like I was a more engaged mom. It was just kind of like this nice little upper. And I don’t know, I felt better. I felt more like myself.

But in this moment, the road went blurry, my eyes went blurry, and I felt like I was getting brain shocks in my head where I couldn’t think or concentrate. And I instantly knew that I had put my daughter’s life in danger and I had put every single person on the road in danger. And I was also really terrified of getting pulled over by the police and being arrested and being taken away from my family for the choices that I made. I’m going to cry, sorry. So I turn off the side of the road and I go down into my old neighborhood and I’m just sobbing and crying.

And once again, those emotions of remorse, self-loathing and shame and so much intense emotion happening in my body because I had just put my family through this whole experience of the outpatient experience. I’d gone through this whole withdrawal and I barely made it three months and I didn’t know what I was going to do.

With like a thousand swords of pain in my chest. All I wanted to do was get home, get my daughter home safely, get her to a babysitter so I could take my life, so I could end this pain. So I just couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t be here anymore. I had spent 15 years trying to get sober and trying to get clean and it wasn’t working and it wasn’t fair to my family.

So I pulled out into the road, and I remember sitting at a stoplight when the spirit hit me really, really hard. And I knew in that moment that God’s love for me was no different than it had been 20 minutes before. My value, my worth as a human being hadn’t changed one bit because of my choice. He saw me exactly the same before I took the pills and after I took the pills.

And it was so powerful to me that if he could love me in that moment, sitting in the car with my daughter, that I could learn to love myself. And understanding that, understanding that moment and that infinite value that I have, that you have as well, is what allowed me to start healing my relationship with myself.

And if you only hear one thing on this podcast today, I really want you to hear this. Your value, your worth, it cannot be lost. It cannot be destroyed. It can only be remembered or forgotten. Your value is infinite because you have a spark of breath because you were created by a loving being. It doesn’t matter what choices you’ve made. It doesn’t matter what choices that have been acted upon you that you feel like may have tarnished your value. It can’t. It can’t touch it.

You are loved and you are worthy no matter what you’ve done in your life. And I want you to know, like, please know this, any of my friends out there who are, I don’t want to call you for strugglers, you’re fighters, you’re fighters, because you keep fighting for your mental health, you keep fighting for your happiness, I want you to know that you are not stuck the way you are.

Our brains and our bodies are designed. They were designed by an all loving, all knowing God. And they were designed for hardship, and they were designed to overcome our hardship. And our brains were designed to adapt and flex to change every single day. We can change, we can feel better. We’re not stuck the way we are. And just really wanted to share that. Thanks for listening to me, Jody.

Jody: Becky, thank you for coming on. And I know that takes a lot of courage to share your story. But it’s so inspiring. I’m so delighted just to know you and to see you out there helping other people in the world. It’s just amazing. Thanks for coming on today.

Becky: Thank you so much. Love being here.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 479. From Addicted to Empowered with Becky Garner appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Do you find yourself paralyzed by the fear of failure? Have you stopped setting goals as a result? Are you holding back from pursuing your dreams because you’re afraid of what might happen if things don’t go as planned?

We often have hidden beliefs about failure that drive our emotions and actions, even if we consciously know better. These beliefs are usually fueled by what other people tell us, or what we grew up believing. The great news is that by deconstructing the limiting beliefs you might currently be holding on to about what it means to fail, you get to let your conscious mind take the lead and steer you in a new, more empowered direction.

Join me this week as I uncover four big lies about failure that may be keeping you stuck. You’ll learn why failure leaves you afraid to set goals, why I encourage you to use the term ‘failure’ as sparingly (if at all) as possible, and how to reframe failure so you can stop letting it hold you back from going after what you want most.

My much-loved and highly requested four-week challenge, Make Peace with Food, is back! We start September 16th 2024, so if you want to sharpen your self-discipline skills and foster a new relationship with yourself and your body image, join us by clicking here.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why you don’t have to feel discouraged or disappointed if you don’t achieve your goal. * How to set goals in a way that minimizes self-judgment and maximizes growth. * Why failure is not the worst-case scenario when pursuing a goal or desire. * The reason failure is often a made-up construct rather than an objective reality. * How to focus on progress and lessons learned instead of labeling experiences as failures. * What happens when you stop calling something a failure.

What exactly is failure and why are we so afraid of it? This is a very commonly discussed topic amongst the world of self-help and coaching, but I have four things for you to consider today that might be different than the way you’ve been thinking about failure and success in the past. Welcome to Better Than Happy. Today, I’m uncovering four big lies about failure that may have been keeping you stuck. Let’s go.

Hello, everybody. Thanks for joining me today on the podcast. Welcome back. Thank you for sharing the podcast with your friends and family. And if you like this podcast, you get a lot out of it, you find it to be motivating or helpful or entertaining, I would love so much if you would continue to share it. You can mention it to your friends and family. You can post it on social media. Make sure you tag me if it’s in a place where you can tag me. And just thank you in advance.

I also love reading your comments and reviews when you leave them on the podcast. So thank you so much for supporting me in the work that we’re doing here of up-leveling everybody’s mental and emotional health, making us more confident, more loving, more of the people that we want to be in our lives.

So today, we’re going to talk about failure. We’re shifting gears a little bit. The last couple of weeks, we’ve talked a lot about health and bodies and nutrition and food, and that’s because next week we dive into Make Peace with Food. Well, I guess it’s in, yeah, a little over a week from when this episode airs. So if you haven’t registered for Make Peace with Food, that’s a four-week challenge.

You’re going to get lessons from me in video form, and you’re going to get live calls with me to implement and execute what you’re learning in the lessons and then come and ask me your questions. So pretty awesome deal, 29 bucks. Head to jodymoore.com/food. Again, we go live on September 16th, which happens to be my brother’s birthday. Happy birthday, big brother. Again, jodymoore.com/food if you want Make Peace with Food.

But today we’re shifting gears. I’m going to talk about goals and goals could be like a literal, I think I will try to achieve this thing type of goal. Or sometimes goals are just a more formal name for our desires, things that we want, things that we desire, like a relationship, for example. Maybe you want to get married. Maybe you want to be a parent. Maybe you want to move somewhere or just try something new, but you’re worried about what’s going to happen down the road.

What will the outcome of that thing be? Will it work out how I hoped? Will I enjoy it? Will I succeed in the way I hope to succeed? Will I create what I hope to create? This sort of unknown about the future, about both factors that are outside of our control and things that we are sort of responsible for, at least trying to contribute to the creation of, the brain doesn’t like the unknown, especially if it’s not going to play out the way we hoped in our minds. And this is what we typically call failure.

So today, I want to talk about four lies that you may be believing. Now, maybe these are things that you literally hear people say or you talk about and you outright believe these things about failure, or maybe they’re more hidden beliefs that you – I found it fascinating that we sometimes have these beliefs that exist in the prefrontal cortex. When we slow it down and we really think through it and talk about it with intention, we have like wiser, more faith-based, more trusting beliefs.

But still in the primitive brain, in our unconscious mind, which is driving the car most of the time, we have these other beliefs that create fear or worry or scarcity or shame that are keeping us stuck. Maybe those kinds of beliefs, those more unconscious beliefs. Either way, we want to do some thought deconstructing today. I recently heard someone say that phrase, thought deconstruction. I’m like, that is what we do in coaching. We are deconstructing thoughts and stories and beliefs. And when you deconstruct them and pull them apart, they lose some of the power over you.

It’s kind of like taking little pieces of the thought and the story and the belief system and pulling them apart so that they’re weaker. So if you were to take a handful of popsicle sticks and try to break them, you might not be able to, might be hard. But if you took one popsicle stick at a time, you could snap it right in half really easy to do, right? When they’re all together, they’re really strong. Individually, they’re weak. So when we deconstruct our belief systems that aren’t serving us, they become much easier to snap and to break and then to replace with a belief system that does serve us. So that’s what we’re going to do today with the idea of failure.

So, the first thing that came to my mind when I was thinking about this topic that is, I think a lie about failure, is this idea that if you fail, whatever that means for you, you’ll be disappointed. You’ll be discouraged. You’ll be frustrated.

Now, there are a lot of people out there who teach that you should set realistic goals. You should just strive for small baby steps because you’re more likely to achieve a small goal, and then you won’t get discouraged and frustrated, and then you’ll keep going. And those small baby step goals add up to big changes in the end. And I like that approach at times. I think that’s true.

I think baby stepping your way to something big is, first of all, I think kind of cool because it requires patience. It requires a slowdown and not being in a rush, and it requires being able to find joy and satisfaction and be proud of yourself for small achievements. So I think there’s a lot of benefit to that. But at times when you want to, I think it is also okay to set a big goal just to push yourself or really require a significant amount of growth. We even sometimes want to put ourselves in a place of discomfort so that we can work through that’s where true growth happens, right?

True growth can happen in small steps as well. But there are times when having massive change is definitely possible and kind of exciting. Okay, so this idea that if you don’t achieve it, you’re going to be discouraged, the reason I say that’s a lie is because I think it would be more accurate to say, if you don’t achieve it, you can choose to be discouraged, but you don’t have to be.

Did you know this? Did you know that it’s not just an automatic default thing that happens that you feel discouraged? Now, it will be if you’re not paying attention. It is probably most likely your unconscious response for most people, but it’s not a given is what I’m saying. Okay? So one of the things that I learned through my coach training that has been so helpful for me is to remind myself that I can choose how I’m going to feel whether I achieved that goal or not. And I like to determine that before I get to the end point of the goal, ideally even before I start the goal.

So let’s say I decide I’m going to – well, one of my kids came to me today and said that she wants to try to run for some kind of student council position at her elementary school. Okay, so she’s starting out saying, “Mom, I want to try to get this position. I’m going to do the things I need to do.” We’ve got to write a little talk and she has to sign up and raise her hand basically, and then give a talk to her class.

So if she doesn’t get that, then she can feel discouraged if she thinks, “Oh, that’s so discouraging. I’m so disappointed that I didn’t get it.” And then she’ll feel whatever other emotions she feels based on what she thinks, right? If she thinks, “I’m a loser, I’m never going to succeed, or people don’t like me, or who do I think – why did I even think I could do this?” If she thinks thoughts like that, she’s going to feel bad.

But we can at the beginning of the goal say, “Hey, listen, you may get this position and you may not. I think that you have a very good chance of it. I believe in you. I know it’s totally possible and that you’re 100% capable and you would be so great at it. So let’s go for it and let’s be excited if you get it. But if you don’t get it, instead of feeling discouraged, let’s just decide right now that we’re going to feel proud of ourselves for trying. Can you promise me that?”

This is a discussion I’m going to have with her later, by the way, because we were on the way out the door to school, running late, of course, when she brought this up. But I’m going to say, “Listen, you can just decide right now that if you don’t get it, you will say, thank you so much, me, for trying. Thank you for doing something hard and scary and new and putting yourself out there. That was difficult and it required work, and I’m so proud of you for trying. Did you know this is an option?”

That’s often the way I set up my goals for myself, is I remind myself I am not going to be disappointed. Now, sometimes I don’t achieve the result because I didn’t fully show up and try, right? And so even then, though, I don’t beat myself up if I’m operating ideally, I should say, from my most conscious, highest version of myself, then I will pause and say, “Hey, what happened? I thought we really wanted to achieve that goal, but it seems like we didn’t actually want to do what was required to achieve it. And that’s okay, but I’m just curious about it. What’s going on? Did we decide we don’t actually want it enough to do what’s required to get it? Because that might be the case. Okay. I get it. Let’s reassess. Or were we just not able to overcome resistance or what have you?”

And I just want to understand myself is what I’m saying at the end. I still don’t have to beat myself up, right? I still don’t have to say I’m a terrible person, I’m a loser, I can’t believe, et cetera. I can just go, “Okay, what was that about, I wonder? What happened there? What went wrong?”

These are useful questions if you ask them from a place of genuine curiosity, then you can actually learn a lot about yourself and you can actually deepen your connection with yourself in this way, rather than use a goal to beat yourself up or to feel bad. So many of you are afraid to set goals because in the past when you haven’t achieved them, you’ve beat yourself up. I don’t blame you. I don’t want to go hang out with someone who’s going to beat me up either.

So the solution becomes we just don’t set goals. We just don’t put milestones out there that we try to achieve. But you don’t have to do that. You don’t have to be discouraged. You don’t have to feel bad. All of that is optional. It’s coming from what you make it mean when you don’t achieve your goal.

Okay, lie number two. Lie number two is that failure is the worst case scenario. This is what our brains believe, right? We’re just talking to a group of entrepreneurs this week and we talked about this concept. Somebody said, “I really want to achieve this thing, I want to grow my business, but I’ve had attempts at other businesses in the past that have failed, and so now I’m afraid to try.” Can anyone relate to this in any area of your life?

What I said to this man was, “Yeah, because your brain is confused about worst case scenario. Your brain thinks failure would be the worst thing that could happen, but let’s just stand back and ask ourselves if that’s really true.” Because what I believe is that the best case scenario when we set out to achieve something or pursue something is success.

Now, keep in mind, success is something we have predefined that we made up. Okay, let’s not forget that. But ideally, we land where we wanted to land. We have the experience we hoped to experience. We create the result we’re trying to create. That would be success, right?

The number two most ideal scenario after success is what we’re now calling failure, meaning it didn’t pan out the way I hoped. I didn’t feel how I thought it was going to feel or I didn’t create what I hoped to create or I didn’t land where I was hoping to land. That is the next best case scenario. The worst case scenario, number three, is just not trying at all. Doesn’t that actually make more sense when you stop and think about it?

Because failure is still movement. Failure is still progress, even if it’s learning that we don’t want that thing anymore or learning that it’s harder than we thought it was going to be. They say when we dive in to learn a new skill or something that we go through these phases, right? And the first phase often I’ve heard called unconsciously incompetent, meaning we are incompetent. We don’t know how to achieve it, but we’re unconscious of that. We don’t even know what we don’t know.

So if you fail, at least you’ve moved out of unconsciously incompetent into consciously incompetent. For many people, that feels worse if you don’t know how to not beat yourself up for it. If you feel bad about all that you don’t know and you get discouraged going, “This is a lot harder than I thought it was going to be, now I see all the things that are required to achieve this and it’s much more than I thought,” then that’s going to feel terrible.

But if you use that as, “Hey, look at the progress I’m making. I’m now aware that this is harder than I originally thought,” which is normal. That moving from unconsciously incompetent to consciously incompetent is a valuable step. After that, you move to consciously competent, right? Which means you are able to achieve what you’re trying to a lot of times, but it requires a lot of focus and a lot of effort. You have to stay conscious to do it, right? And the fourth phase they say we move to is unconsciously competent, where you can achieve a lot of success without a lot of focus and effort. It becomes more of a natural skill or way of being that you have, okay?

So you see why I’m saying failure is not the worst case scenario. Not trying is the worst case scenario because it’s a step backwards if ultimately what we want is to have an experience or create a certain goal. So the best way that we learn is through experience. Actually, the only way that we truly learn is through experience.

We can get ideas by reading, listening, taking classes, talking to others, we can have a certain level of understanding, but we can’t have a deep level of knowing. We can’t have it be a part of our being if it’s a complicated skill at all without actually applying it and having the experience. And with that application and experience is going to come failure, what we’re calling failure.

I always like put it in quotes when I say failure because – we’re going to get to that in a minute, actually, I’ll tell you why. Okay, so just keep that in mind. Best case scenario, success. Next best case scenario, failure. Worst case scenario, not even trying. Not showing up.

All right, let’s go to number three. The third big lie about failure that we say all the time in the world of personal development is this idea that you should stop and assess what happened and learn from it. Now, I’m saying this with a caveat, that of course I want you to learn from your failures, but I don’t think you need to stop and spend very much time in most cases assessing what went wrong.

I believe that your brain already is hyper-focused on what’s gone wrong. If you’re like most people, if you’re like me, your brain is hyper-focused on what’s wrong with you. Where did you drop the ball? What’s gone wrong is the primary question most people are walking around asking themselves. So I’m not saying you can’t analyze things. And again, the more complicated the goal and the task, the more analytics might be useful, but only if you can do it from a neutral mindset with the eyes of a scientist, okay?

So for example, let’s say you’re trying to launch something in your business. Maybe you have a business and you try to launch a new product or a new offer or something, and you don’t achieve whatever goal you created for yourself in your launch. You don’t get a certain number of clients or sell an amount of product, et cetera, okay? Then yeah, there may be numbers to go back and look at, like number of people that we reached, leads that we generated, how many people did we nurture, how many people came to whatever activities we offered, and then how many people bought, right?

So there’s some basic numbers in business. So if you can look at those numbers and be very objective and very entrepreneurial and not take it all personally and not get all dramatic and heavy, then great. Look at those numbers. That can be useful information. But if you can’t, if you’re very emotionally charged about it, I would say, don’t even bother. Just move forward. Stop thinking about the past and start thinking about the future, because my guess is that your brain actually already knows. Even just intuitively, you have intuitive guesses about what went wrong that you don’t have to have numbers to prove.

What’s the documentary about Taylor Swift on Netflix that came out years ago, before all the Eras tour and everything? I think it’s called Miss Americana. Go watch it if you haven’t, so good. Okay, so there’s this part in the middle when, I think it was right after the Reputation album, and Taylor Swift gets the phone call from whoever on her team to notify her about Grammy nominations coming out.

And she’s basically, her new album is not nominated for anything. And she’s disappointed, and the person’s trying to deliver it in a really soft way. And then she says, “Well, I guess I just need make a better album.” And the person’s trying to like, buoy her up, right? And say, like give reasons why maybe she got overlooked. And she’s like, “No, I just need to make a better album.”

Okay. Now, she is disappointed, which is fine. I’m not trying to turn you into a robot here. What I love about that scene is her immediate focus on the future. She’s not spending a lot of time assessing the past. I don’t know what happened after that scene, but in that particular moment, she moves into the future.

“I’m going to do something better.” And boy, did she, right? So that’s what I’m talking about. Instead of thinking, “I should learn from my past failures,” how about, “I’m just going to do better now?” Let me just go do better. It’s so much more fun for me to do that, to think about the future and just go do better.

“I just need to do a better job of taking care of people. I just need to do a better job of planning out my food. I just need to do a better job of being a mother.” Whatever it is that I’m quote-unquote failing at, I’m just going to go do better now. Let’s do that. Fourth and final big lie you might believe about failure that I want to blow up for you today is the idea that it’s even a real thing.

What is failure? It’s not a real thing in that it’s not clearly definable. It’s not something that everyone would always agree on in any given situation. So it’s really just a made-up construct or idea. Here’s what I mean by that. First of all, it is you not achieving a made-up objective. Like you decided what you wanted to have happen, and by what timeline, and then you took a guess as to the efforts that would get you there. And maybe you executed those efforts, or maybe you didn’t, but it was still made-up in the first place.

It’s not like a real thing that actually happened. It’s just your made-up idea of what the finish line is, you didn’t get there. Okay, so what? You made it up to begin with. Maybe you were wrong about what was possible. Maybe you were wrong about what would be required to get there. All right, so you were wrong. That doesn’t mean you failed. You just were wrong. See what I’m saying?

It’s not even actually a real thing if we break it down. The other thing it sometimes is, is just us quitting. Every time somebody tells me, “I had a business before, but it failed.” Or, “I attempted to start a business, but my business failed.” I always wonder why are they choosing to tell themselves the story that way? Because it didn’t fail. You just chose to stop trying to make it work. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t have. I’m not saying that you should never quit.

Sometimes it’s like, you know what? I don’t want to keep trying to make this thing work anymore. I’m done trying to make it work. Or what would be required is more than I’m willing to give, or for whatever reason. I don’t even think you have to have a good reason. You can just decide you’re no longer going to pursue this thing. But that is not failure, that’s just you changing your mind.

At one point you thought you did want to attempt something, and then now, later, given where you are, you decide you no longer are going to try to achieve that thing. That’s real, but failure’s not real. Failure’s just the label you give it, and if you don’t have any negative emotion with that word, then cool, I’m cool with it.

But if you do, if you carry it with you, like some kind of a heavy weight, I’m just going to tell you, you can just put it down right now. “I used to have a business and I don’t have that business anymore.” That’s a much more true story and probably a more empowering story. The last reason failure is actually not even a real thing is there are almost always little wins along the way, but why do we not say, “I won, well, except for these things.” What we say instead is, “I failed. Well, except for these things.” Right?

Let me give an example. So a friend of mine years ago was starting a business and I told her I wanted her to fail more because I wanted her to go bigger because I knew her really well. I knew she was sharp. I knew she was capable and I knew she was playing small. So I’m like, “Your job is to fail three times this month.” And then she would come back to me and say, “Jody, I failed.” I was like, “Great, tell me about it.”

She’s like, “Well, I wanted to do a webinar, and so I put it out there, and I got like 50 people to sign up. I was so excited, and then the day of the webinar, I had tech problems, and I couldn’t even execute the webinar, and then all these 50 people didn’t get the webinar they signed up for, total failure.”

And I’m like, “That’s not a total failure. You have 50 people now that you know are interested in what you teach. That’s just a tech problem is what happened. That’s not a failure.” And she was like, “Oh…” This kept happening over and over again. And I was like, “Why aren’t we like, ‘Jody, I found 50 people who are interested in learning what it is that I teach. Oh, and by the way, I didn’t get to teach the webinar because the tech went down.'” No, we don’t do it that way. We’re like, “I failed. Oh yeah, there were 50 people.”

So there are almost always at least as many, if not more wins. Even if the win is, “I discovered I don’t like that thing, I discovered I don’t want to do that thing, I discovered that thing is harder than I thought it was, I met somebody, I learned something, I learned how to use a certain program.”

Like for my friend, again, back to the example, she learned something about the technology, whether it’s, “I need to double check before,” or, “I should do a test run,” or, “This particular platform doesn’t work in this way.” Like there’s way more wins than failures in almost any scenario.

So, stop calling things a failure. When I first started coaching coaches years ago, and we would talk about failure, right? That’s when it came up a lot when I was coaching entrepreneurs. And I would say, “You have to get comfortable with it, you have to be okay with it.” And they were like, “Can you give us an example, Jody, of when you failed in your business? We want to hear about it.”

And I remember being like, “Why can I not think of anything?” Like, it’s not that I’m amazing and everything I do works, but it was like, so hard for me to come up with examples. And I realized it’s because I never call anything failure, hardly, not never, but rarely do I call anything failure. I’m just like, “Oh, I thought that was going to do this. It did not do that.”

It takes a lot for me to label it a failure only because I just understand what I’m talking to you about here so deeply. I understand that these are all just made-up finish lines that I create. And if I don’t hit them, I’m more like, “Oh, I was wrong. I thought we’re going to get to this finish line, but we didn’t, but we got to this finish line and now here’s what we’re going to do instead. Or this finish line is good enough. Let’s go.”

So just be careful about that word failure. I would use it very sparingly, if at all, because it’s not even a real thing. It’s just made-up. All right. That’s what I got for you today. Thanks again for joining me on the podcast. Don’t forget we have a podcast hotline.

If you have a question you want to bring to me, you can do so at 1-888-HI-JODY-M. That’s Jody with a Y, M as in more, 1-888-HI-JODY-M. You can leave me a voicemail. I love hearing from you there. And otherwise, thanks for being here today and I’ll see you next time. Take care.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 478. 4 Lies About Failure Keeping You Stuck appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Do you feel like you’re doing everything right when it comes to your health – eating well, exercising, and getting enough sleep – but still struggling to see results? If you’re ready to stop spinning your wheels with fad diets and quick fixes, and instead address the root cause of your health struggles, this episode is a must-listen.

This week, I’m joined by my very own health coach and friend, Brittney Zeedik. Brittney shares her personal journey of losing her father to colon cancer and the startling realization that 93% of Americans are not getting enough fiber, and how, by understanding the science of how fiber works in the body and making simple changes to the way we eat, we can dramatically improve our metabolic health, balance our hormones, and finally achieve the results we’ve been working so hard for.

Listen in this week to hear the surprising reason why so many of us are metabolically unhealthy despite our best efforts. Brittney shares her insights on why our nation is plagued by insulin resistance, gut issues, inflammation, and chronic disease, and her top tips and resources that will help you incorporate more fiber into your diet.

Click here to learn about the supplements Brittney and I take, and to grab Brittney’s fasting calendar!

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why 93% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy, even if they don’t have an official diagnosis. * How the modern food system has been engineered to be addictive and unsatiating. * The critical role fiber plays in regulating insulin, balancing hormones, and supporting gut health. * Simple strategies to incorporate more fiber into your diet, even if you don’t love vegetables. * Why intermittent fasting can be a powerful tool for improving insulin sensitivity and metabolic health. * The importance of addressing both the biology and psychology of eating for lasting results. * Brittney’s go-to tips for intermittent fasting. * The surprising benefits of changing the order of food that you eat. * How a lack of fiber in your diet can lead to both physical and mental health issues. * The glaring signs that you might be metabolically unhealthy.

Mentioned on the Show: Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast! * Come check out The Lab! * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * Brittney Zeedik: Instagram | TikTok * Valter Longo * Fiber Fueled by Will Bulsiewicz * Fast Like a Girl by Mindy Pelz * The Menopausal Reset by Mindy Pelz * The Obesity Code by Jason Fung * The Diabetes Code by Jason Fung * The Cancer Code by Jason Fung * Why We Get Sick by Benjamin Bikman * Glucose Revolution* by Jessie Inchauspe

If you have been trying to make some kind of a change in your health that you know will come if you can eat better and move your body more and drink more water and get better sleep, you know it comes from the basics, but why can you not get yourself to do the basics? Well, it’s not because there’s something wrong with you.

It’s not because you are weak or undisciplined or lacking in willpower. I promise you that’s not the reason. It’s also not because you haven’t found the perfect diet or the perfect meal plan or the perfect approach. There is no such thing. And yet there are actually lots of things that could work out there, right? It’s not because you’re missing some kind of critical information that you need to have. It’s not any of those reasons. What is it then? Well, today, my guest Brittney Zeedik is going to clue us in on what might be the root cause of your problem.

I’m so excited to introduce you to Brittney who has been my coach for the last, I don’t know, eight months to a year now. She’s been my friend even longer than that. She is a fellow coach and was a client of mine even before that. She is a wife, mother of three, former hairdresser, and in her words, she is completely obsessed with how our bodies and minds work. She uses insulin-regulating supplements, lifestyle strategies, and coaching to help people feel amazing and empowered. And she’s just an amazing resource, and I can’t wait to share her with you today.

Jody: Brittney, I’m so grateful to you for taking the time to come here. What I wanted to do today is just talk to like my past self, which is kind of what I’m always doing as a coach who has learned so much over the years, but especially in the last six to eight months, since I started following you more closely about all things, metabolic health, about fiber, about insulin, and you’ve just really helped me so much. I was like, we’ve got to get Brittney on the podcast and share her brilliance with everybody. So will you take a moment and just introduce yourself and tell us what you do and why you do it.

Brittney: Yes, thank you. It is my pleasure to be here. And I’m glad that the message resonated with you. I think that the reason that this is kind of a sticky message is because so many of us are struggling with the same things. And it hit me hard kind of on a personal level because I went through a rough patch when my father was diagnosed with colon cancer at age 58. And we had all the best doctors and all the best medical intervention, and we were just totally shocked by this and thought for sure he was going to beat it. And unfortunately it was too late and all throughout his body.

And it kind of felt like, no, why? How could this happen? As we really were in the thick of his treatment phase, we were, of course, looking at everything, everything we could do to save him. We really learned a lot about how many signals his body had been giving him that things weren’t quite right and that there was a problem.

And we just didn’t realize that he had psoriasis. He also had high blood pressure. He had weight fluctuating constantly. He was probably pre-diabetic. I’m not sure if he was actually diagnosed, but I would guess that he was. He had skin issues in general, bowel issues. We had no idea that all of these things were connected. And once I started learning that and recognizing some of the things that had he known could have been really helpful, I felt really motivated to share as much as I could and maybe try to help somebody else from going down that same route and maybe intervening and empowering people, really, to realize that there are things you can do, but if you’re struggling, you’re not alone. So that’s kind of how I got started on this.

Jody: Do you think those things were connected to him developing colon cancer?

Brittney: Yes, I absolutely do. And I also think that the same things that would have helped resolve those separate issues would have also, I mean, I can’t say 100%, but very possibly prevented that even being an option, that he felt that.

And I hate to say this, but, you know, of course, looking back and reflecting a lot of the side effects of the medications he was on for, like, for example, his psoriasis, they were immune suppressing. And cancer was actually one of the main side effects of several of the medications he was on. Of course, we weren’t looking into all of that. When a doctor gives you a medication, you just, you want to get better.

And so anyway, all those connections were drawn a little too late, but it’s so great to know it now because we still have a lot of things we can do and so many people to help. And so I just feel like I’m on a crusade to help people.

Jody: That’s awesome. Yeah, I hadn’t really thought about it that way before because it’s tough to say exactly what causes cancer, of course. It can be so many different factors, I think, but interesting theory that you have there of like that maybe even sometimes the treatment of these other problems that are easier to treat. It’s really tough to treat cancer and some of these more extreme things that we’re seeing commonly, but sometimes the treatment of these symptoms, I will call them, can actually be doing additional harm to our bodies.

Brittney: Right, and truly there’s just so many lifestyle changes that we can make now to hopefully prevent, but sometimes reverse serious conditions. And it’s not just with food. One of the main things I learned in the research with my dad was there was a doctor named Walter Longo who was very big on intermittent fasting and the things that could happen from that. And I really had no awareness around that whatsoever. And learning all the different things that that can do for you was incredibly eye-opening. And so now let’s piece it all together.

Jody: Yeah, sorry to cut you off. Let’s go there for a minute because there’s a handful of topics that when I first started following you, which was maybe only eight months ago that I started like really seriously paying attention to the things that you were posting online. And if you guys want to follow Brittney online, I highly recommend it. She’s MindBodyBrit on Instagram and TikTok. Are those the best places to find you?

Brittney: Yes.

Jody: Yeah, okay. So anyway, your videos were very informative and very engaging and quick little reels, you know, that I could quickly take something away from. And so I really loved it. And the things that you were teaching me weren’t like brand new things I’d never heard of before, but you have this really great way of simplifying what can be complex topics sometimes and making it really applicable in our everyday life.

I remember years ago when I first started kind of experimenting with intermittent fasting, which I want to talk to you about in just a minute, but it was such a big leap from where I was. I tried to cut out flour and sugar and intermittent fast and do a whole bunch of things that I still think are probably really good for us. But I remember realizing, wait, I went from eating like Jody Moore has been eating her whole life to trying to eat like Gwyneth Paltrow. And I think maybe that’s too big of a leap.

Brittney: Yeah.

Jody: I wish I was Gwyneth Paltrow, but I think I’m going to have to dial it back a little. And so I love how just they felt like doable tips and useful information. So let’s just start with intermittent fasting. Tell us a little bit about what the research says. What is intermittent fasting? Why is it so good for us? And then we’ll talk to anybody who was like me that was like, yeah, I’m never going to be able to do that.

Brittney: Well, let me just start off by saying that intermittent fasting goes against everything I was raised with. It’s really the opposite of-

Jody: Breakfast is the most important meal of the day, we were taught, right?

Brittney: Exactly, exactly. And not only was breakfast the most important meal of the day, but we really – I mean, many of us grew up in this era of you got to keep your metabolism going, small meals, eating multiple times throughout the day was the way to not have your body think, uh-oh, I’m in starvation mode. I should store everything. Like, that was what I was taught. I actually had a dietician tell me that.

Jody: Me too.

Brittney: Right, right, and my household was a little bit of a food free-for-all. We just, there was no set meal time all the time. I mean, we would do like a big Sunday dinner, but, and I’m sure we did dinners, But if you ate an hour before a meal, nobody really cared. And if you ate before bed, nobody cared. And if you just wandered through the pantry 10 times a day, it was just fine, you know? I mean, my pantry looked like a cereal aisle and we had every good snack in the book. Our house was very, you know, social. And so if you, on your way to school, grabbed a pack of Gushers and some chips, you’re good.

And so this whole concept of really eating less and having – it’s kind of seen like our grandparents, right? It was like, you had three square meals and you didn’t snack before supper or you’d spoil your appetite. And that just isn’t what I did. And so it felt radical to me to not eat breakfast. It felt even more radical to not snack. Now I can see why I had brain fog and I felt hungry all the time and tired and felt like I needed that or I would actually feel light-headed and actually nauseous sometimes. I thought I had hypoglycemia. A lot of people experience They’re like, “Oh no, I’ve tried it, and I feel terrible.”

Jody: Yeah, that was me too.

Brittney: Yeah, and I thought that was because my blood sugar was getting too low because I wasn’t eating. But what I now understand is that I was experiencing the crash from a blood sugar spike. What goes up must come down. So if you spike your blood sugar, then it crashes, and then that’s how you feel. And so the goal is to not do that. And really, I mean, on a science-y level, every time you eat anything, whether it’s a protein bar or a handful of Cheez-Its, they all elevate your blood sugar levels.

And whenever your blood sugar levels are elevated, then your body produces a hormone called insulin. And when insulin comes into the picture, it puts all that energy from the food that you just ate, it puts it away. It puts it into the cells that need it, your muscle cells, your brain cells, your liver cells, whatever. Keep your body functioning. And insulin doesn’t come down as fast as your blood sugars come down. So your blood sugars come down and then your insulin starts coming down, but if you snack again, then it bumps right back up.

Over time, you can keep your insulin, the hormone insulin, elevated almost all day long. Often people keep it elevated all day long because the higher the carb load of the food that you’re eating, the bigger the glucose spike, the bigger the insulin spike. And so if you have a lot of insulin in your blood, then it takes longer to come down. And if you’re eating frequently. So we’re kind of keeping insulin elevated two different ways, eating frequently and high carb foods, which we can talk about that in a minute, why our foods are so high carb.

But that keeps your insulin elevated. And then your cells, because insulin is always in the bloodstream and it’s always sending messages to your cells. Hey, I have energy for you. Hey, I have energy for you. Hey, I have energy for you. Open up, I want to give you some energy. Your cells get burnt out on those constant signals and they kind of stop responding. It’s like they tune it out. They tune out that insulin. And then insulin is there trying to get energy into the cells, but the cells have stopped listening. They’re insulin-resistant.

And so the cell literally doesn’t have energy. And so then you get another hunger craving or you need more energy because your cells are lacking, but it’s not because there isn’t enough energy available it’s that the energy can’t get into your cells because you’re insulin-resistant. And so this is really where fasting becomes an amazing tool because if you just limit the frequency of eating, then you won’t be sending those insulin signals to your pancreas.

Jody: Non-stop.

Brittney: Yeah, non-stop. And so now your insulin – think about like when you’re sleeping at night, you’re not eating, right? So your levels finally have time to come down. So technically while you’re sleeping, you’re fasting, right? You go about for eight hours or however long you sleep. And so you’ve already been fasting. And if you wake up and you just extend that a little bit, then you can allow your insulin to come down pretty low. And when it comes down low, it makes you more sensitive to it.

It’s kind of like if there’s background noise all the time, you know, you don’t really notice it, but you turn it off and all of a sudden any little noise, you know, it can be jarring. I always think about like when I had little babies and if I kept a noisemaker on, we were good. We could just wander around the house. But if it was quiet, then the slightest door closing would wake somebody up. And so there’s something to be said for that. Like we want to be sensitive to the signal of insulin. We have to have it not be constantly hitting us up. That makes sense.

Jody: Yeah. And I’ll just say for me on a practical level, because I’ve worked off and on over the last four or five years with health coaches who’ve been amazing in helping me change my eating. And I was talking to one, this was probably six months ago, my health coach. And she said, “Do you need a break from really monitoring your food so closely and being in a calorie deficit? Like, is that kind of mentally exhausting for you?” And I was like, “No, it’s not mentally exhausting. What I need a break from is that feeling of not being full.”

And she was like, “What do you mean you don’t feel full?” And this was before I started working with you and making the changes we’re going to talk about today, but I was like, “I can handle being hungry for a while when I know lunch is coming up, but then after I eat lunch and I’m still not full, I need a break from that.” And she’s like, “We should be relatively satiated, not like stuffed.” But because I was cutting out like the concentrated sugars and things, I was experiencing that insulin resistance.

Like I’d had plenty of calories and I had had plenty of nutrients, but the sugars weren’t getting into my cells. And so I just like, without topping it off with something really concentrated and full of sugar or whatever, I was so insulin-resistant that I just never felt full.

So anybody that can relate to that, I know it can show up in a lot of different ways for different people, but for me, making some of the changes that we’re going to talk to people about today, I was like, oh my goodness, I can feel full and still, when I want to, be in a calorie deficit and lose some weight. Not full all the time, not stuffed, but like full after I eat a healthy meal. And that has been mind-blowing to me. So anyway.

Brittney: Yeah, those constant cravings and that feeling like it’s impossible to feel truly satisfied is such a strong indicator that you’re insulin-resistant. And it’s good to pay attention to that. Sometimes we talk about those things among friends and people are like, “Oh yeah, me too.” And so then we just kind of were like, okay, I guess it’s normal.

But then there are other times when you’re sitting at a meal with somebody and they only finished half their sandwich and you’re looking across the table like, I’m done with mine. Is she really not going to eat that? I could eat another half, you know? What’s wrong with me? And then there’s some shame involved in like, why am I never satisfied? Like get it together and you feel like you just need to, I don’t know, buckle down and have more willpower. And that is so exhausting. So I’m glad you brought that up.

Jody: So intermittent fasting, I just want to kind of recap for people. It’s just going a little bit longer without food, right? And I love what you taught me, Brittney, which was that, yes, ideally you would cut out a meal probably. I don’t eat breakfast anymore. I don’t eat my first meal till anywhere between noon and two. Some people prefer to not eat dinner or whatever, but it just extends, you just are sort of adding on some hours to when you already are intermittent fasting because you’re sleeping, right? Ideally not eating between meals, but I will say that I’m less strict with myself.

I, again, often won’t eat until two and then I’ll eat dinner at like six. And sometimes I will have a snack in between that. That’s my eating window, but I just have a pretty long fasting window. But for some people in the beginning, that might feel too extreme. And I will say, I was one of those people who was like, I love breakfast, I wake up starving hungry, I will never be able to not eat breakfast.

But Brittney and I both use a supplement, a Unimate supplement, which we’ll tell people at the end where they can get if they want, that makes it doable. So you can find really healthy ways to support yourself. But I would say for anybody considering intermittent fasting, even if you just decide, okay, I’m going to stop eating after dinner, not have a snack before bed, and now I’m extending it by a couple of hours, or I’m going to bump my breakfast from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. And just try bumping it out an hour or two can be really helpful, right?

Brittney: Yeah, and I think my go-to tips when somebody’s brand new to intermittent fasting are number one, when you eat your meal, try to eat your food in order, where you’re eating whatever’s fibrous on your plate. And when I think of fiber, before I thought of like cereal and I thought of, you know, Wheaties and things like that. But I actually think veggies, you know?

Jody: Because it says fiber on these boxes sometimes. High in fiber.

Brittney: Yes, it’s a little confusing. I’m actually talking about veggies. So if you’re looking at your plate and you have broccoli, chicken, and rice, you would eat the broccoli first, or at least a couple bites of it, and then you’d eat your chicken, and then you’d save your carbs till the end of your meal. And the reason for that, I mean, it really goes against every restaurant in America where you get the bread first or you get the chips first. So I’m asking you to kind of go against the grain here, right?

But if you rearrange the order that you eat, it will make you feel full longer and it will make the not snacking or the waiting longer till your next meal so much more doable. And then the other part is that if you are aware of like, rather than trying to cut out certain food groups, that has always been really challenging for me. But if instead I just think about what I can add to help me.

So like you said, we can talk about some of these things we’ve added, these plant-based products, but also adding more protein into your diet, adding more healthy fats like avocado and olives and coconut and raw nuts and things like that. Those things will really help you. They’re filling, first of all. There’s only so much steak you can eat, right? And so if you fill up on those types of foods, then you don’t have as much room for the carbs and you won’t have as big of a blood sugar spike, which means you won’t have a crash, which means it will be easier for you to go longer.

Jody: Good point. So you mentioned fiber. Let’s shift and talk about that a little bit now. Again, I’ve heard before that fiber is good for us. The health coaches I’ve worked with in the past, who I really like, I’ve done like macro counting. So with your macronutrients, you have protein, carbs, and fats, and you’re just kind of trying to monitor, especially making sure you’re getting enough protein has always been my focus. And then carbs and fats, we kind of balance out, however.

So my coaches in the past, fiber is what we call a micronutrient, right? It’s not a macronutrient. So it’s not like the first thing that we pay attention to when we’re trying to lose weight or even gain muscle necessarily, but they would always kind of look at it and be like, “I wish you were getting more fiber.” And I would go, “Yeah, I’ll try.” But it was, you know, I don’t love veggies and, and I’m not even a big fruit person. Like berries have a lot of fiber, apples have fiber, things like this. So I was constantly like trying to get fiber, but it was challenging to do.

And once I was diagnosed pre-diabetic back in January and then started really executing the strategies you teach and making fiber a real priority, both in my food and with a supplement, again, that we can tell people they can try out. My mind was blown at the difference it made in, first of all, like you said, how full I felt, how satiated I felt and how my body responded, my digestion, my overall metabolic health. I was like, no, fiber is not just like, we probably should get some more fiber, at least for me. I’m like, fiber matters as much as how much protein I am getting.

Brittney: Yeah, okay, well, this is a soapbox that I could really stand on. I feel real passionate about this because there is a recent statistic, 93% of Americans, and this isn’t happening in other countries too, but just looking at just America, 93% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy.

Jody: Okay, what does that mean?

Brittney: That means that, well, first of all, Well, that means only 7% of us are metabolically healthy. If you’re in a room of 10 people, nine of the people are struggling with their metabolic health. That means that within these five categories, either diabetes, we’re going to call it, but you might not be diabetic yet. You might just be insulin-resistant. You might be pre-diabetic and not even know it. And that we can expand on.

That also includes things like polycystic ovarian syndrome that’s really common in women and several other things. So diabetes, cholesterol imbalance, hypertension or high blood pressure, weight management, and heart disease. So if you struggle in any of those five categories, I think it’s two or more of those categories than you are technically in the 93%, which is most of us.

So I always like to kind of think about it in the analogy of a classroom, that if you have one or two kids in the class that are failing, then might be something going on with the kids. But if the whole class pretty much is failing, then you kind of have to take a look at what’s going on with the system and the class, right?

Jody: The teacher.

Brittney: With the teacher. And so in this case, I mean, we also can look at the most recent study was 93% of Americans are not getting enough fiber. And I just can’t help but think that there’s a correlation between those two numbers. Because it just so happens that dietary fiber is helpful for heart health. It helps with weight management. It helps with blood sugar balance. It is fantastic for your gut health. It helps with hormone control.

So there’s all of these things, basically every single category that is in that metabolic health problem area, fiber is a solution for. And it was quite a while back in the, let’s say like 1950s-ish is when it started ramping up, that food makers started getting smart about how to make food at the grocery store more palatable and more addictive.

And then in the 90s, it really got serious where we had teams of scientists that were like, okay, how do we make it so when you first bite into it, it gives you a surge of pleasure, but then it leaves you on not the best note so that you want another bite. And I mean, this is how smart they were, right?

And they figured out that fiber is not super palatable. It doesn’t taste as good when the fruit isn’t bigger and sweeter. It tastes better bigger and sweeter with less fiber. And carrots, and that’s for fruits and vegetables, that also happens to be true for grains. And so if we can take the fiber out of the grain or out of the produce, if we can minimize that fiber, then the food will be more palatable. People will want more. And great news, fiber is so filling that if we take it out, the food’s not as filling, which means people will buy more. They’ll be able to-

Jody: Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. It’s kind of the difference between brown rice and white rice, right? Like brown rice, just not as tasty, not as satiating, not as pleasurable because it’s still got some of the fiber in there versus the white rice where it’s all been removed. It’s just softer. It’s a little bit sweeter.

And for me, even I think about like when that choice comes up in a restaurant, would you like brown or white? And I always know the brown’s better for me. I should get that, but I kind of want the white. I feel like the white rice makes me feel full immediately faster. It takes longer for me to feel the sensation of the brown rice, but the brown will keep me full longer. Right? Anyway, okay, sorry, continue.

Brittney: And that’s such a good observation to realize that like your brain is like, ooh, I know the hit of pleasure from that one. That really comes from our ancestry. Out in the wild, when we were picking the berries, the sweet ones were good for us and the bitter ones were poisonous. And so this all really goes back to – and this is why the scientists are so brilliant, right? Is they go, oh, we know, we know what is innate. And so they really have gone after that. And so I actually just grabbed a packet of Uncle Ben’s brown rice the other day and looked on the back and it had less than one gram of fiber.

Jody: Yeah, I was going to say, even the brown rice nowadays.

Brittney: Yes, and the wholewheat bread and all of the things. I mean, even the cereals, everything you can think of that is made from a whole grain. Corn pops made of corn, right? Like grains, things that should be packed with fiber is just not.

Jody: It’s just being altered is what you’re saying.

Brittney: Processed. Everybody always talks about processed food. This is processed food. It’s taking out the satiating components, the things that make you feel full longer so that you consume more of them. I mean, one of the most simple examples is like juice, right? Because if you juice a fruit, you have the carby, sugary part on one side and you have the fiber-

Jody: That you throw away.

Brittney: Yeah, the throwaway on the other side. And if you think about like, okay, it took three apples to make that glass of apple juice. Well, you can drink that apple juice alongside a meal. But if you ate three apples, you wouldn’t be, you probably couldn’t finish the three apples.

Jody: Right. And explain, I know this is hard because you do such a good job online with your visuals, but what does the fiber do that makes such a difference?

Brittney: So, okay, if you think about the fibers, I mean, chia seeds are kind of a good example because you can really see that, but you think about when a chia seed hits water, it kind of plumps up and it gets almost gelatinous a little bit. Same thing kind of happens with oats, like whole grain oats, when you mix them with water and cook them, they get kind of thick and gelatinous.

So it technically is in the carbohydrate category, But in nature, carbohydrates always come packaged with fiber. There’s never an example of a carb that doesn’t also have fiber. Even sugar, we think about the white, granular stuff. But in nature, it came in like a stick, like a fibrous cane that if you sat and gnawed on for a while, you’d get a couple ounces of sweetness out of it, right? Who wants to do that? So we’ve processed it and separated it for you.

And so the fiber, if you just take the actual fiber, like, I think people don’t realize how literal this is. Like, think about a stalk of celery. You can see the fibers.

Jody: You try to bite it and you get those strings.

Brittney: Yes.

Jody: Those are fibers.

Brittney: That is true for, you know, grains, foods. If you think about whole wheat, what it looks like in the wild, and then you think about the fluffy white flour that we make cookies with, there’s bran in between there. And the brand is the fiber. And so when you’re consuming fiber, it mixes with your stomach juices and it kind of forms this viscous-y jelly mesh. It gets gelatinous a little bit, like a chia seed.

And what happens with that is it goes in and it hits your intestines and your stomach, and it actually happens to be the food that your gut microbes eat. Your body doesn’t even have the enzymes to break it down. So we sometimes think of fiber as roughage, right? It’s just for digestion. But no, it’s actually food for the the bacteria in your gut that we have trillions of.

And if you are anything like me, then you probably have spent most of your life eating the same five fruits and vegetables. And so you really only have been feeding a very specific group of gut microbes. And if you’ve been eating food from the grocery store, anything that’s in a bag or a box with a barcode, then likely it has little to no fiber. So it’s not feeding anything in your gut.

And so then you end up with skin issues and psoriasis and eczema and acne, and you end up with inflammation and bloating and gas and leaky gut and autoimmune issues and mental health issues, really, because the gut microbes that are in there, they actually communicate with your brain.

We know this really well when it goes the other way around, when we’re stressed about something and we feel it in our stomach, right? It’s a two-way communication, though. The same way that our stress levels can cause us to have gut issues, the same thing is true where our gut health also communicates with our brain on its food preferences.

And if it’s an army of bad guys in there, then it’s asking you for all the carbs and sugars. And so you can actually change that and start getting an army of good guys in your gut asking you for the right types of foods. But with the food system, the way it is, all of us are deficient. We don’t have that communication going well for us. And so we just have a ton of problems, headaches, mental health issues, gut health issues, and on.

Jody: I hope that what people hear when you listen to Brittney talk about this is, I feel like there’s so much, like you said, stigma and shame, and what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I eat better? Why can’t I take better care of my health or lose the weight or whatever it is. And it’s really tough to do in the environment we have been raised in and are still living in given our current food supply.

I did read a book from, I don’t know, some doctor about how to address basically insulin-resistance and things. And after like a lot of chapters, finally he got to the solution and he was like, never eat anything that comes in a can, a box, a bottle, Like, the only foods you are allowed to eat, he preferred that you grow your own veggies and fruit and you make your own bread from, like, I was like, there is no way I can – I’m going to try to eat more whole foods, less processed foods, yes, but there’s no way I could never ever eat anything that comes – I was like, are you kidding me? This is your solution?

Again, I think that it’s important that we are clear that would be ideal for all of us. And anybody that’s up for that or whatever changes you can make in that direction, great. But in the meanwhile, I use some help. I have a fiber packet that I mix into water and drink before my meals. And I just supplement with help that will, again, everyone will tell you how to go get that if you want it. But I just really want people to know that they don’t need to feel ashamed or guilty because it’s just, it’s not our fault.

Brittney: Yeah, I mean, when you’re told most of your life, eat less, move more, that’s the solution, when the reality is that the communication between your gut and your brain is muddled because you haven’t – the food systems that are in place and the foods that are at the grocery store are blocking the signals that are necessary. I mean, this is very real. The hormone response is not as it should be because the foods are modified and aren’t as they should be. And so it’s not a you problem, it’s a system problem.

And so knowing that’s actually great news because you can go, okay, what can I do then? And for me, I’m like you, Jody. I love the idea of growing everything I eat, but it’s not happening anytime soon for me. So I read this one fantastic book that I highly recommend called Fiber Fueled by Dr. Will Boltzowich. And he is gut health expert. He knows everything there is to know, top to bottom. And his answer to every gut health issue is fiber, okay?

And a lot of people go, oh, fiber hurts my stomach. Well, you might have to start really small and slowly build up because it will. will help rebuild your gut, but a lot of our guts are very damaged. And so it’s going to be a process, but ultimately he recommends 30 forms of fiber a week.

Jody: That’s a lot.

Brittney: That’s a lot harder, right? And so I’m very grateful too, that I have a fiber supplement that has over seven. The ones at the grocery store have like one form of fiber. This has over seven. So you are adding to your diversity and they’re all foods that I don’t normally eat, that the fibers come from.

So it’s giving me some diversity that I wouldn’t otherwise get. And if I’m going to eat whatever food I’m going to eat, at least I’m bringing it back to nature where I’m adding the fiber back in with whatever the carbohydrate I’m about to eat is. It’s helping balance it the way that it was intended.

Jody: So if you guys want to see what Brittney and I use, you can go to jodymoore.com/fiber. We’ll have everything linked there for you. I want to give people lots of options and tools and resources. So you mentioned that one book, Fiber Fueled, would you recommend that book for people that want to learn more about this?

Brittney: Yeah, it’s so great. It’s really good.

Jody: What other books do you like? Or what have you studied if people want to learn more?

Brittney: Yeah, okay. So a few of my like favorite resources, because some people have a diagnosis. They know that they have a metabolic issue. They know they have diabetes or high cholesterol or gut health issues or high blood pressure. They know they’re overweight, right? Like there are some categories that are obvious. But for a lot of us, we haven’t gotten a diagnosis, but we have skin tags. We have skin pigmentation issues. We have brain fog. We have constant cravings. We feel tired all the time or tired after we eat.

Jody: For me, the way I kind of check myself and how I’m doing metabolically is hunger and digestion, like bowel issues. So sorry for the TMI people, but I coach some people sometimes who are working on changing their eating habits And they’re like, well, I’m never hungry. I don’t get hungry. And I’m like, that’s actually not a good thing. You should be getting, you shouldn’t have extreme low blood sugar, but you should have a reasonable amount of hunger from time to time when it’s time to eat.

So either too extreme of hunger or not hungry enough, but also then like you should be regularly having bowel movements like every day, multiple times a day, ideally. So whenever one of those two things is off for me, I kind of pay attention like, first of all, am I drinking enough water? Am I getting enough fiber? Hormones can affect that a little bit as well, but those are two really easy ways to assess your own metabolic health. Okay, sorry, go ahead.

Brittney: No, perfect. So I think it’s just important that we kind of state like some of the signals that, hey, you might be in this category, even if you don’t have a diagnosis, here’s some of the signs. Then you can go to these resources.

So with intermittent fasting specifically, I have just loved the Fast Like a Girl and the Menopausal Reset by Dr. Mindy Pelz. She talks a lot about fasting with your hormones and women can’t fast like men. They can’t fast the exact same way every day. We have to change it up a little bit and we have fasting calendars that we can give you guys and lots of great stuff that summarize these books. But if you want to go read the whole thing, it’s a fantastic read.

I also love Dr. Jason Fung. He has The Obesity Code, The Diabetes Code, The Cancer Code now is his recent one. Those are kind of the intermittent fasting resources that are great. Why We Get Sick by Dr. Ben Bickman addresses insulin-resistance. And he talks a lot about how insulin is causing so many problems for us.

And then it’s called The Glucose Revolution by Jessie Inshelps. She is the one who has really, I mean, her book is a bestseller and it’s very practical, but she shows you lots of insulin-sensitizing strategies, not just in food order of eating, which is kind of her go-to best thing, is what she’s known for, is eating food in order, but also exercise you can do after eating to reduce your blood sugar or weight training. She gives you so many great practical lifestyle strategies. So those are kind of my main go-to’s that I recommend.

Jody: Okay, love them. And if you go to jodymoore.com/fiber, if you want to learn about the supplements and things that we take, we’ll also link the fasting calendar there that Brittney’s talking about. And we can even list some of these books. They’ll be in the show notes, but so many great resources out there to help us.

Last thing I kind of want to talk about, I know we’re running out of time, but I know you’re a certified coach like myself. We both love the world of thought work and we’re both believers in managing your mind. And sometimes we’re just overeating in order to avoid emotions and all of that. The way I kind of think about it is there’s, when it comes to changing your own eating habits, there’s biology and psychology that have to be addressed, right?

I was just talking to a friend of mine who’s been just getting a lot more fiber and executing some of these strategies. And she was saying like, “Yeah, it is fascinating how actually I’m less hungry. I have less cravings. I actually don’t have to eat breakfast anymore. I go between meals without snacking.” But then when she and I were both talking about how it’s kind of disappointing all of a sudden you’re like, wait, I do still though – like what’s going to be the joyous part of my day if it’s not going to be a cinnamon roll in the morning or what have you, right?

So there is psychology work to be done and that is one of the things that I’m going to be addressing just for anybody listening in Make Peace with Food, which is coming up. We’re going to talk about both the biology and the psychology, but we’re going to go really deep on the psychology part.

But then there’s this biology part where, again, I think when I first started talking to you, Brittney, it really opened my eyes and helped me remove some of the shame because I’d been like, what’s the matter with me? I’m a coach. I know this stuff. I’ve been able to execute it in my business, been able to execute it in my parenting and my relationships. Why can I not get the food thing down?

And I think in the end, biology will win out. Like your hunger will just keep coming at you until you answer it. So tell me kind of, I know I just answered the question, but I also want to hear the way you think about this topic.

Brittney: No, I couldn’t agree more. I think that you could look at both sides. You could do all of the thought work in the world, managing your mind, learning what to do with urges, and then you still could have physical cravings that are like you’re talking about, biology, physiology, that will eventually win because of our survival brain.

And then vice versa, you could have all of your physiology perfectly managed. You could have your cravings all stabilized. I mean, I am an example of this right now. I’ve kind of figured it out. I’ve gotten pretty stable and I’ve been able to maintain a really healthy set point for over a year now.

But that does not mean for one minute that I, for the last 40 plus years, my answer to almost every emotion was food. And so even though I don’t physically need it, my brain thinks it does. And so there’s that whole side to manage. I mean, every night of my life after putting my kids down, so I guess not my life, but since I’ve had kids, roaming the kitchen for one last little thing was like self-care to me.

And so there is so much that you still really need a coach on, not to mention that you may know what to do, you may learn these strategies we’re teaching you, and you may feel like, oh yeah, it’s actually helping, but knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things. And if you know what to do and you’re not doing it, you probably need some coaching.

So I just think that, of course, they work together, right? And of course, you really can’t have one without the other. I love that there are multiple people I’ve talked to that felt terrible about themselves because they just, why can’t I resist an urge? What is wrong with me? And lo and behold, they were insulin-resistant, right? So you just need both.

Jody: Yeah, you do. I need both anyway, most people do. So we have so many resources we’ve given you here today. I don’t mean to overwhelm anyone. I just wanted to really let you hear Brittney describe all these things, because she’s so knowledgeable and she’s been studying it for so long. She really has just helped me tremendously.

Again, I was just talking to one of my employees today and she is responsible for going back through old coaching calls and pulling little clips and things that we share online. And she’s like, “Jody, I was looking at videos of you just from February and just your face looks different.” And I was telling her, yeah, in the scale, you know, I’ve lost probably five pounds since February, not tons of weight, but I am not inflamed like I used to be. My inflammation is better, my bloating has gone down, like my body has changed and I just feel more energized.

So again, I attribute that to the coaching work that I continue to do and also addressing the biology side that makes it possible for me then to manage my brain around it. So Make Peace with Food, I’m going to be covering both of these things. I’m going to go into more depth on the biology and the psychology. So if you’re just interested in like kind of trying out some of these supplements or reading some of these books or getting Brittney’s fasting calendar or whatever, head to jodymoore.com/fiber.

If you want to try out Make Peace with Food for $29, we’re going to work together for four weeks and really execute all of this, and that’s at jodymoore.com/food. So if you’re not interested in any of this topic, it doesn’t help you. No problem. I hope you got something useful out of today, but otherwise, Brittney, again, give Brittney a follow. She’s at MindBodyBrit, and I’m telling you, she’s just a wealth of knowledge and so generous. Thank you for coming on today, Brittney.

Brittney: Oh, my pleasure. And to anybody who listens to this podcast, but hasn’t gone and looked at Jody’s feed lately, you will see that she is reverse aging. Like her skin looks younger and glowy, and I’m telling you, whatever you are doing is reverse aging you.

Jody: Okay, I have this before and after picture, because one of my other coaches was like, you should take another picture. And it was from the back, right? Like I see the front of me all the time, but I rarely look at the back of me. And I was dying at the difference in, let’s just say it, my back fat.

And I, a little bit, want to share it online only to inspire people, but I also – it’s very vulnerable to share online. And second of all, I’m not always – like we’re not trying to just plug quick weight loss solutions here. And I just think there’s a lot of things I need to consider before I share it online. But I don’t know, we’ll see. If everybody wants to see it, I might share it online.

So I’ll probably just put it on that page, jodymoore.com/fiber. Let’s do that. I think I have a video there where I talk about things and I’ll put it in the video. If you want to see it, go check it out. And then maybe one day I’ll get brave enough to share it on Instagram or something. But Brittney, I love you girl.

Brittney: Love you too. Thanks for having me. What a pleasure.

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Do you feel like food has too much power over you? Is it the highlight of your day? Are you tired of the constant chatter in your head about what to eat or not eat? How do you end the ongoing battle you have with food and finally find the freedom to focus on other areas of your life?

Making peace with food is about so much more than what you eat. It’s about healing your relationship with yourself. I’ve never seen anyone be successful long-term without first learning to hold true compassion and curiosity for themselves. And in this episode, I show you the real transformations that happen when you change the way you think and talk to yourself about food.

Join me this week as I share the breakthroughs that have allowed me to make peace with food once and for all. You’ll hear five ways my life has changed since I’ve learned to enjoy food in a healthy way, the mindset shifts and practical strategies I continue to utilize every day, and the ripple effect working on your relationship with food can have on every area of your life.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* 5 ways making peace with food has transformed my life. * The power of feeling empowered around your health. * Why making peace with food is the key to reaching your health goals. * How to stop making food so powerful in your mind. * The importance of removing shame and secrecy around eating. * How your body can heal itself when you fuel it properly. * Why a little hunger is actually a sign of a healthy metabolism.

Raise your hand if you love food. You can’t see it but my hand is up high, I love food. And I think being able to enjoy good food is an amazing part of our human experience that we should cherish. But what I have hated is the way I felt like food controlled me my whole life, the chatter in my head about food, the noise about food and the power that food had over me. If you can relate to this, I have some amazing breakthroughs I want to share with you about how to make peace with food. You can do it and it may not even be as challenging as you think. This is Better Than Happy, episode 476, Make Peace With Food.

Oh boy, here we go. We’re going to talk about everybody’s favorite and least favorite topic, how can we get ourselves to eat better? How do we control ourselves around food? Well, today we’re going to dive into what I call making peace with food. Now, of course, it includes also making peace with your body and making peace with yourself. There’s a lot to this. But I like the idea of focusing on making peace with food because from peace with food, you have the ability to create any other result that you want to.

Maybe you want to lower your blood pressure or cholesterol. Maybe you want to lose some weight. Maybe you want to gain some muscle. Maybe you love the way your body is and it’s healthy and functioning as you wish but you want to maintain it or maybe you need to gain weight or whatever is going on for you. Making peace with food is a challenge for most people I know, and yet it is doable. So that’s what we’re going to do today.

Now, I do want to be totally upfront with you. I’m going to tell you five reasons why making peace with food has made such a huge difference in my life. And then I’m going to tell you how I am doing it because I hate to say I’ve done it, I’m done, I made peace of food. I think it might be a lifelong thing. I think that I always have more room to improve, but I feel I’m in a different place today than I’ve ever been before. I hope that’s the case. And I want to share with you some of my experience about that so that you can take anything that’s helpful to you and run with it.

And I hope that by the end of this podcast episode, you will have at least one thing, just take one thing that you want to try because really all of this is about becoming empowered and showing yourself that it is possible. But if you decide you want more, I’m going to tell you how to come and get some continued help from me because in, I don’t know how long this episode will take, 20 to 30 minutes, we’re probably not going to solve it all.

Again, I would love for you to take one thing and I know that’s possible, but we’re not going to solve this problem. So, stay tuned to learn how to come and work with me for four weeks to really implement what I’m going to teach you here today about making peace of food. Making peace with food is probably the hardest mental work I’ve had to do. And second to that would be the work I’ve done around money and third for me would be the work I’ve done around other people having negative emotions in just general relationships in my life.

Now, that’s not true for everybody, that’s just for me. I know it’s interesting, that some people have an easier time with health and food, and then a harder time with building their businesses or something like that. I feel we all have certain areas where the work that we’re doing here of trying to manage our thoughts, manage your minds, comes easier, other areas where it comes harder. For me it just happens to come the hardest around food and my body and my health, so just full disclosure.

So, I have lost weight before in my life. I’ve dieted and focused and lost weight. And I don’t view actually any of my attempts at dieting and weight loss as failures. I think that they’re all wins because I definitely grew a lot each time I lost weight. And I learned some additional things about myself, about my body, about food in general, about nutrition. And so, I really do view them all as wins.

Back in 2020 during the pandemic I had a little bit more free time, like a lot of us did. So, I hired a coach and lost a bunch of weight and that was really game changing for me. I learned some life changing things about food and my body. And when I say learned, I mean none of it was, what, I’d never heard that before. It’s just, I was able to implement and execute them with the help of a coach in such a way that they became skills that I could go to any time. But I did sort of get to my goal weight and then I didn’t really stick it out long enough to learn how to maintain that for a long period of time.

I probably maintained it for about a year, and then I just slowly started putting some of it back on, not all of it, but some of it. And so last fall, fall of 2023 I decided, I think I’m going to dial in again and just lose a few pounds here that I’ve put back on. I want to execute what I learned last time about how to lose weight, but I want to also add on this time the maintenance part and the long term sustainable changes because I can do this temporarily, but I still didn’t master how to do what I need to do over the long run.

So that’s where I started out, with just pure vanity, let’s just say. I was like, “I like myself better when I’m about 10 pounds lighter. I like how my clothes fit better. I feel better. Let’s just do that.” And so, I did, and I feel like I was in a really healthy headspace because I wasn’t hating my body necessarily. I was doing all the work to really love and embrace myself as I was. So I was in a pretty good space that way. And I was just like, “Why not though? I know I can do this.”

And again, I hired a coach to help me and it was going okay, like it always does, a little up, a little down. And then in January, my doctor, I went in for just a routine check-up with the doctor. And he did some bloodwork and said, “Hey, you’re pre diabetic.” So, then I thought, well, I need to get that under control. He was like, “We should probably talk about putting you on metformin or something”, whatever drugs. And I thought, okay, I’m not opposed to that, but first of all, I am really focused on my health right now.

I’m in the process of losing weight. I wonder if I could just at least do everything I can on my end to manage it, first of all, before we do that. And he said, “Okay, let’s give it three months and then I want to run your A1C and see where you’re at.” And I said okay. So fast forward to now, it is August of 2024. So, by the way, when he ran my A1C, it came back normal. So, he’s like, “Wow, good job. We’re not going to put you on anything right now, but keep watching it. Keep eating well and exercising and doing the things that you’re doing.”

So, my motivation today is higher than it’s ever been to be healthy because I feel so empowered around it. I feel so confident that I can do it. And I feel so unattached to the scale and I love my body. Yeah, it’s nice to lose some weight. It’s nice that I’m down a couple of sizes of pants and I feel stronger than I have in a very long time and I feel more energized. I feel better in my body. All of those things are nice, but more than anything, I can’t get over how I don’t even recognize myself, I don’t mean visually. I mean when it comes to the way I feel about food, the way I behave around food.

I never thought it was possible for me to become someone who didn’t give food so much power in my life and it feels like such a relief. That’s the best way I can describe it, is for food to not be taking up so much space in my head is such a relief because it frees my head up for other things that I would much rather be thinking about. And it’s freed me from so much shame and guilt and just weird behaviors and all or nothing actions around food. I just feel lighter. So that’s what I want to offer to you today.

Now, like I said, I’m still a work in progress, I don’t know, maybe I’ll gain all that weight back that I just lost again. But I can tell it’s different this time because I’m not afraid of that. I was always a little bit like, “Oh, I hope I don’t gain this weight back.” But now I’m kind of like, “Well, if I do, I’ll lose it again.” But I don’t think I will because I’m just in a different headspace. And that comes from working on it for a long time. And like I said, I’ll have to keep working on it.

But here’s what I want to suggest to you is available to you when you make peace with food. So, I kind of alluded to this already, but I want to give you five things.

The first thing is that I have made food so much less powerful in my mind. Now, this goes both ways, first of all, I don’t make food so bad. I don’t villainize food anymore. I don’t talk about to myself or even think about any kinds of food as being so terrible, because that gives it a lot of negative power. But I also don’t think about and talk about food as being so amazing, so good, so tasty. Now, don’t get me wrong, that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy food, I do. I enjoy food. I enjoy good food but not to the level I used to. And that has freed me up a lot, to not make food so powerful.

Food is no longer the hero in my life. It’s no longer the thing I look forward to, although I do indulge in good food at times. It’s not the highlight of my week or my day. And it’s also not the villain that I’m afraid of any longer. And I can tell that because I have so much less emotion around food. So that’s the first thing. It’s so amazing to not let food have so much power.

Number two. I have removed the shame that I used to carry around with food and I will tell you why that’s been so amazing for me and how this might be useful for you if you can relate to this. I was talking to my health coach the other day about just where my head is at now. And she was asking me some questions about what I’ve noticed is different in my behavior with food, and especially with other people. Because social situations tend to bring out certain sides of us when it comes to food.

And she said, “Do you notice that you don’t say to girlfriends, “Let’s go get a dessert or whatever like you used to or anything like that.” And I was like, “No, I think, for me, it’s actually the opposite. I think I used to hide it.” I wouldn’t say, “Let’s go get a treat”, because I felt kind of bad about wanting a treat or I knew that I had already had a lot of treats or wanted to eat an excessive amount of the treat and I was embarrassed of that. I was ashamed of that. And so, I kind of hid it and I still would eat it in front of other people, but now I’m actually much more open and free about saying, “Hey, let’s go get a treat.”

And that’s because most of the time I eat really well and I take care of my body. And so, I don’t feel bad about having a treat, not to mention the work I’ve done in step number one of not making food so powerful. And so, what I used to do is what I call booty calling my food. Can you relate to this? Remember in college when you’d have a booty call, some guy would call? I hope my kids aren’t listening to this. Some guy would call you late at night to come over and you’d go make out or whatever and then come home and be kind of ashamed, and probably shouldn’t have done that.

That’s what I would do with food. It was like, I’m pretty hungry, I’m just going to hurry and eat this thing and I hope no one sees me and I’m going to do it in secret and then I’m going to feel bad afterwards and not tell anyone and hope that nobody sees. So, I don’t do that anymore. If I’m going to eat a treat, I just eat a treat and I don’t make it a big secret or a big deal.

Now, I’ll tell you the way I got started on doing that, if you’re like, “I want to try that. How do you do that, Jody? I stopped beating myself up and having a bunch of negative self-talk after I eat some kind of junk food. Let’s say I ate licorice because I love licorice, you guys know this. I used to be like, “I shouldn’t have eaten all that licorice. It’s so bad for me and there’s so much sugar and the red dye and now I feel sick”, or whatever.

Instead of that I went, “Mmm, that was pretty good.” I would talk to my past self, kind of like, “Did you enjoy that? That was fun. Just so you know, I feel terrible now. I’m paying the price for what you did 10 minutes ago, Jody, but it’s OK. I love you. I’ve got you. I hope you enjoyed it. That was pretty fun.” I just shifted it away from how terrible I was to just, that’s what I did and I kind of regret it now because of how my body is reacting but not going to be mad at me about it. Licorice is good, I get it.

And there’s something about just taking away the shame and the guilt that then neutralizes it. And the next time it’s around, it’s less powerful and I’m more likely to say no from that place. Things that are forbidden are extra appealing to us.

The third thing that will happen, at least that has happened for me when I made peace with food, is that it’s allowing my body to heal from some of the damage that I’ve done to it over the many years of not really taking great care of it. And for me specifically, the area I’m most aware of anyway, is with regards to my insulin resistance. I was so insulin resistant. I still am a little bit actually, I still really have to watch it and I’m still working on becoming more insulin sensitive.

And they say 50%, I think that’s the latest stat, 50% of people in the country, maybe it’s even higher, are insulin resistant, which just means that insulin is there. It’s trying to do its job of moving sugar out of your bloodstream and into the cells where you then feel the energy from that, but your body doesn’t respond to it. The cells don’t open up to allow the sugar to come in. And so, you have extra sugar in your bloodstream, but you also don’t have the energy you should have, which makes you want to eat more food.

So anyway, I’m trying to become more insulin sensitive and I have become more insulin sensitive. And I’ve used some tools to help me to do that, that I’ll be teaching in Make Peace With Food. But I’m just so amazed at the body’s ability to heal itself. And again, I’m not against using medication or any kind of treatment that helps you to heal your body. But our bodies really do have amazing capacities to heal themselves and you can reverse insulin resistance. You can even, in most cases, reverse type 2 diabetes by applying some strategies.

And again, some tools to help, I’ve found to be very useful, so that’s pretty cool. I mean, I’m 49 years old. I’m going to be 50 on Halloween this year, and I feel I’m healthier today than I’ve been in a decade, for sure. So that’s pretty cool.

Number four benefit of making peace with food, and this is one of my most favorite ones, it’s just self-respect. I feel good about myself because again, I’m not sneaking around eating a bunch of food that I hope nobody sees and feeling bad about it and eating behind my own back, which is not even a thing. I’m not creating all this drama around food. I just feel more authentic and more real and this was interesting.

So just today there was a brunch activity at somebody’s house in my neighborhood. Now the kids have gone back to school, all the moms decided to get together for brunch. And brunch is some good food. Usually you’ve got some salty foods, some eggs and things like that, and you get maybe some fruit. And then you get a lot of my favorite pastries, donuts and sweet bread and stuff like that.

And so, I went to brunch and I did eat some of that good food, but I used to would go to something like that and be really looking forward to the food. And the food would have been kind of the highlight of it, if I’m being honest. And I always liked people and I like to see my friends and everything, but the food was kind of the highlight. Whereas this time the people was the highlight, the conversations, the friendship, the connection. And that is not about the people, that’s about where my head is at. I did eat a little good food, but I didn’t overdo it.

And I wasn’t constantly looking over at the food table thinking, I really want more of that, but I shouldn’t eat it, people will probably see and I probably shouldn’t. I’ll make myself sick. I’ll gain weight. That kind of chatter is just quieter, which makes me more available to listen to the people I’m meeting and get to know people and connect with people and have great conversations and that’s what I want my life to be.

I want to look forward to things like meeting people rather than look forward to a donut because a donut doesn’t really care about me. And I do still look more to a donut. It’s just not the highlight of the event. The people are the highlight, and I really am appreciative of that. And it really does just make me like myself better if I’m being honest.

And then the fifth and final thing that I was just thinking about today, because I am in a calorie deficit right now. I am going to lose just a little bit more weight here before I just go into pretty much maintenance. And so being in a calorie deficit means a little bit of hunger. And I was just thinking about how far I’ve come in my relationship with hunger. Even just a few years ago I was afraid of being hungry. Hunger felt like a crisis that I needed to solve right away. Whereas I now know that hunger is just information.

And I don’t want to be hungry all the time, I don’t think that’s healthy, but a little bit of hunger is fine because I’m still eating food every day, right now unless it’s a fast Sunday or something. But for the most part, I’m eating food every day, but I may not eat breakfast. I may intermittent fast. Most days I intermittent fast or I may eat a little bit less food because again, I want to access some of my own body fat. I want to eat food off my own body a little bit here for a minute.

But I used to not be able to tolerate hunger, I just couldn’t. Whereas now I’m like, “Oh, good, I should be a little bit hungry.” That’s a sign of a healthy metabolism, actually. A lack of hunger is a sign, can be a sign, I should say, of a lack of metabolic health. That’s true with all kinds of things, your digestion and all sorts of other things I won’t go into today, but hunger is actually a healthy thing.

And part of the reason I think that I’m less scared of hunger now than I used to be is because of what I talked about with insulin resistance because there is a difference between low blood sugar and hunger. Often they come at the same time, but not always. This is what I’ve discovered as I’ve watched my body and I’ve worn a CGM which is a continuous glucose monitor. I’ve really studied my body and I’ve realized they’re not always the same thing. And low blood sugar does feel like an emergency and it is something that you should answer right away.

But interesting, you’d think being insulin resistant would mean that you would only ever have high blood sugar. But I’ve found that for me anyway and for many others, it’s just a lack of being able to regulate your blood sugars. So, you can have very high blood sugar and you can have very low blood sugar more frequently than somebody who has a healthy pancreas and ability to utilize insulin. So low blood sugar does require kind of immediate attention, but hunger doesn’t.

True hunger is just your body going, maybe we should eat something. I kind of need some energy and if you don’t answer it with food, then it can go get something off of your body. It can go access your fat. That’s what it’s there for. So, I’m just really appreciative that if I’m hungry, I’m just like, “Well, I am going to be eating dinner in about an hour or so. I should be getting hungry right about now. It’s cool, no problem.”

So, I’m sure that you’re going to have your own set of benefits when you make peace with food and I want you to. I want you to have your own goals and get what you want out of it. But I love coaching people on this topic. I love helping people with this topic because of the personal growth that comes as a result of it because of how it requires. I’ve never seen anyone be successful with this long term without working on liking themselves better and learning to talk to themselves nicer and having compassion and true curiosity for themselves.

Rather than beating themselves up and being full of judgment and shame. I just don’t know how to do it authentically and long term unless you work on your relationship with yourself. And that has a ripple effect in every other area of your life. I’m just so grateful to myself for doing this work, and I plan to continue doing it. And I want to invite you to come and join me for this work.

The way that you do it, I’ve basically broken it into eight topics that I think are really essential to understand and be able to execute. And we’re going to be doing this together in the four week challenge I’ve put together called Make Peace With Food. We’re starting on September 16th and it runs through October 11th. So that’s four weeks and it’s $29. I would love to get this out to anybody who wants to attempt to make peace with food.

And in all honesty, I also have a four month program because like I said, I started last November and I’m so glad that I did. It actually was the very end of October I want to say because I remember being at a Halloween party and going, “I should eat a treat today because next week I talk to my health coach and I’m diving right in.” So, it was end of October, beginning of November. Anyway, I’m so glad I started then because that’s right before the holidays.

And it was really powerful for me to have the holidays to be able to practice eating more intentionally and deciding ahead of time, hey, I’m going to a holiday party. I want to let myself eat more indulgent food than I normally would. Or I’m not going to and I’m going to practice being at a party and enjoying the company more than the food. Or I’m going to notice the chatter in my head or I’m going to notice whatever things. The holidays just give us lots of opportunities to practice making peace with food.

And so, in The Lab, we’re going to be doing this work together, anybody who wants to join me, for four months. So, if you’re in The Lab, you’re already going to get this four month Make Peace With Food program that I’m going to be doing. We’re going to work on it October, November, December and January all the way through into the second month of the New Year, I want to take you to with Make Peace With Food. And then of course I’m available any time you want coaching on it, but we’re going to really dive into it.

So, if you come to this four week challenge for $29 and you like it and you want to join me for the four month challenge, then we’re going to let you apply your $29 towards that. And I’ll tell you about how all that works on the Make Peace With Food challenge. So, it’s at jodymoore.com/food if you want to join me. But here’s what we’re going to do. These are the eight topics that I feel we need to master.

First topic is called food is neutral. So, I talked to you a little bit about that today, about how we don’t want to villainize or make food the hero. We want to neutralize it just a little bit. You can still enjoy it, but we want to remove some of the power that food has over us.

The next topic I teach you is called, food as fuel and joy. And I have you make intentional decisions about the role that you want food to play in your life. And you can let it be joy for you, that’s okay, it’s not wrong. We’re just going to decide intentionally, obviously food is fuel for all of us. So that one’s kind of got to be a given. But whatever other roles you want food to play in your life, we’re going to decide intentionally. We continue on with that whole topic in a lesson that is specifically called, decide what you want from food.

So, we’re going to get off of the emotional roller-coaster and we’re going to decide how food can best serve us in our lives. And then this is a really important one, it’s called navigating cravings and urges. You must learn how to navigate cravings and urges. You don’t want to resist them and push them away. I’ve found that I can’t do that. I can’t do that long term, I should say. I can do it temporarily, but not long term. And we also don’t want to be giving in to them all the time because that actually just makes them stronger again when they come back.

So, what do we do instead? We’re going to understand both the biology and the psychology of cravings and urges. And like I said, I’m going to be introducing you to some of the tools I’ve used to help manage my cravings and or just make them less powerful in my life.

And then the next lesson is called, when you fall off the wagon. So, newsflash, there’s no wagon, but this is something that we say. I hear people say it all the time. I say it sometimes too, “I totally fell off the wagon.” And what that is indicative of is that our brains are still in a space of all or nothing thinking about this. And a lot of people when they ‘fall off the wagon,’ then just give up for at least the rest of the day, if not the week or the month or the year, and go back to eating unconsciously.

And so, I want to talk to you about what to do because you’re not going to be perfect at this and you don’t need to be, I’m not and you don’t need to be. So, what do we do then when we fall off the wagon? And the same goes for the next lesson, which is called, when you’ve been really good. This is the other thing I hear is, people are like, “Well, I got on the scale and I was down a little bit and I have been eating really healthy and I’ve been ‘really good.’ So now I should get to reward myself with ice cream,” or whatever.

So, again, I’m all for you eating ice-cream if you want to, but if you’re doing it as a reward, you may sabotage your overall efforts. And so again, I’m going to teach you what to do instead so that you can still be very proud of yourself and acknowledge yourself and have plenty of joy and rewards in your life without sabotaging what you’ve done in the past.

The next lesson is called in it for the long game, because even though we’re going to work together for four weeks in this challenge and four months, if you stay with me. That’s not going to be long enough to make the lifetime changes that I know you want to make. So, we’re going to talk a little bit about what that looks like and how to slow down the rush that our heads want to get into of hurrying and getting to our ideal weight or whatever it is.

And then the last lesson I give you, I’ve called Jody’s favorite thoughts about food. I have been collecting thoughts that help me in all kinds of situations. When I’m on vacation, when I’m meeting out, when I’m with friends, when I’m bored, when I don’t have groceries in my house, when I moved to San Diego and there’s the best tacos everywhere and donuts and ice-cream. And I want to try all of it and enjoy all of it. At the same time, I don’t want to sabotage my health goals. What thoughts do we go to, to help us, I’m going to give you all of them.

So again, if you want to join me, head to joymoore.com/food, it’s $29. Come and work with me. You’ll get those eight lessons. And by the way, those of you who are already in The Lab, you’re going to get all the lessons already in the library. We’re going to post them in there for you so you don’t need to worry about it. But if you’re not in the Lab, come and join me for this. And then you’re also going to get live coaching calls with me, where I’m going to be there as you execute this, to coach you through it and take your questions and help you navigate it.

And that’s a very important part of the work we do. That’s why I still work with coaches and I would encourage you to have a coach. I would love to be your coach if you want to come and try out, Make Peace With Food. Jodymoore.com/food, I will see you there. Thanks for joining me today on the podcast everyone. Have a beautiful rest of your week.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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Have you ever found yourself worrying excessively about the future, especially when facing challenges or uncertainty in your life? While thinking ahead can be useful for setting goals and making plans, there are times when future-focused thinking does more harm than good.

I’ve helped thousands of clients gain a healthier perspective, dream bigger, and achieve more through the power of future focus. However, I’ve also witnessed how fixating on the future can sometimes lead to overwhelming fear, worry, and confusion. By understanding the difference between productive and unproductive future thinking, you can learn to harness its benefits while avoiding its pitfalls.

Join me this week as I explore when it’s useful to utilize future thinking and when to NOT think about the future. You’ll hear practical strategies for managing your mind when facing difficult situations, the importance of determining the right “lens length” for focusing on the future, and how you can lean on your innate problem-solving abilities when you stay grounded in the present moment.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why our brains find it easier to think about the past than the future. * How focusing on the future can help you think bigger, achieve your goals, and create the life you want. * The difference between useful future thinking versus unproductive future thinking that leads to worry, fear, and panic. * How to determine the optimal “lens length” for focusing on the future. * Why trusting in your problem-solving abilities is key to navigating life’s obstacles with confidence and resilience.

When I was certified as a coach over 10 years ago, I learned a tool called Future Focus, and it’s been a game changer for me to help me achieve my goals. And I’ve used it to help thousands of clients also to get a healthy, useful perspective, to think bigger, to achieve more. But there is a time when thinking about the future might be creating problems for you. Today, we’re going to dive into future thinking, past thinking, and better understand when to utilize both to create your best life, solve challenges, and achieve your goals. This is episode 475, When to NOT Think About the Future.

Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining me today. Thanks for being willing to work on your mindset and your own emotional regulation and better understand how to create the best version of you so that you can create the best life and teach those around you, be example to those around you. I’m so grateful that you’re here. It helps me achieve the goals that I have in my work as a coach.

So before we dive into today’s topic, I want to invite you to a four-week challenge called Make Peace With Food. This is a challenge that I did earlier in the year that everybody loved and had such phenomenal results for. They’ve been begging me to bring it back. And a lot of you also missed it and have been messaging me. I’ve got so many messages, probably about this more than anything else I teach, of when are you going to do Make Peace with Food again? This is such a challenging topic and such a great opportunity for sharpening your skills in terms of your own self-discipline, your relationship with yourself, your body image, all the things that we’re trying to do here in The Lab.

So head to jodymoore.com/food. This is a $29 four-week challenge that I promise you will get 10 times more than your money worth if you come to this challenge. We should be charging $2,900 for this, but we’re going to keep charging $29 because we want to help as many people as we can. So jodymoore.com/food to register for Make Peace with Food. And we get started on September 16th. So go do it today before you forget if you’re like me.

All right. So I kind of mentioned this in the intro, but a lot of times in coaching, what I’m doing and what other coaches who coach in a similar format to me, what we’re doing is trying to help people focus more on the future. It’s one of the things I love about coaching. There is, of course, a useful time and place for thinking about the past. Traditional therapy works in the space of the past, right?

Understanding your past, sort of maybe processing trauma or pain and healing from things from the past, reframing the way we think about it so that it can serve us today, that’s all good, useful, valuable work to be doing at times. That’s not actually my expertise. My expertise as a coach is in helping people think about the future and create what they want from the future. That’s one of the things, again, that draws a lot of people to coaching is at a certain point, they realize that they need that.

So our brains find it much easier to think about the past than it is to think about the future, which is why in coaching I have to constantly redirect people into the future. So for example, if I ask you a question like, who are you? Where does your brain go? Does it go to the past or does it go to the future? Because there really is no such thing as the present, right? The present is happening right now, but now that second is in the past. So is it the past or is it the future that your brain goes to if I ask who are you?

And most of us, our brain, including me, my brain automatically goes to the past. Because if you ask me, who are you, and I go to the future, that feels odd because maybe who I want to be in the future is in some ways the same as who I am now, but in other ways different. And so I don’t think about that because I feel like I’m not her yet.

But by that rationale, it doesn’t make sense to go to the past either, because I’m not the same today as I was necessarily in the past. And so I’m not her either. I’m different in certain ways. I’m maybe a little bit more experienced, maybe a little bit more refined, maybe a little bit more damaged in some ways.

So it’s interesting to think about, right? Where do we go to answer a question like, who am I? Where do you go to answer the question, what are you good at? What do you like? Because these are all up for grabs, right?

I find this to be really useful a lot of times for people who are building businesses, right? I’ll say things like, “Okay, tell me about what you’re working on. What are your goals? What are you trying to create?” And they’ll often go to the past. They’ll say, “Well, my clients tend to be like this, or my program is like this.”

Now, again, maybe we don’t want to change any of that. In which case, beautiful, nothing wrong with going to the past. If we want to keep serving those same clients and we want to keep that same program, and we want to keep our business the way it is, then we should be just going to the past to get the answers.

But if you’re not trying to just recreate the past, then you have to go to the future to get the answers. And the future is a blank slate, which is why it’s really hard for the brain to do. The brain doesn’t like to have to imagine or make decisions or be creative. That’s a lot of work for the brain, not to mention it brings up all of our own limiting beliefs and self-doubt and everything else. And so it would prefer to just go to the past. It’s a lot easier for our brains.

We tend to call these limiting beliefs, right? These beliefs about who we are that come from the past that we think are just the reality, and then we keep recreating them today and for our future. So that’s just a little bit about future focus and why it’s such a valuable and powerful part of coaching.

Oftentimes I will help a client go to the future by going, “But you could do anything you want. The sky’s the limit. You don’t have to keep any part of your past that you don’t want to. And yet, you can bring the parts with you that you want to.” But it kind of gets us out-of-the-box, right? The box of limiting beliefs to think, “Wait a second, I can be anyone I want. I can create anything I want. I can serve any client that I want.”

This summer in The Lab, we’ve been doing Summer of Style. I just got done with a call today where we gave away tons of gift cards and jewelry and just like amazing, fun things. So that was fun. If you missed that in Summer of Style, those of you in The Lab, don’t miss it next time because boy, that was a blast.

But at any rate, even with our own personal style, when I ask somebody, “What is your style?” They go to the past usually. They tell me about their past self. And I say, “What if we go to the future to decide your style? Who do you want to be? How do you want to dress? You can dress the same way you have been, maybe that’s working great for you. But if you’re trying to become somebody different or you’re trying to create a different result in some area of your life, which will require you becoming someone different, then it can be easier sometimes to start with an obvious external thing that is less emotionally charged, like just how you dress, and change that, and then bring the rest of yourself along with you.”

Another thing I really like to help my clients do is to think further ahead in the future than they have been. Our brains, again, find it more and more challenging the further out we try to go, because again, there’s just more unknowns, more variables, and more of a blank slate. And also to help them think much bigger about the future than they’re currently thinking.

And I’ll tell you, this is a challenge for me. It’s something I’m constantly working on, doing a better job of thinking about the future, thinking further out and thinking bigger. It brings up so much noise in my head of like, who do you think you are? You can’t do that. You’re too old. You don’t have enough money. You’re not smart enough. You’re too tired. It’s too hard. All of those thoughts are interesting to take a look at and thinking bigger, thinking longer term can be really useful when it comes to things that you’re trying to create in your life, to your goals, to the results that you want to create or change for yourself, okay?

So that’s just a little bit about future focus and why I love it so much as a coach, but there is a time when thinking about the future or thinking too far out is not going to be useful. And that is with regards to our challenges or problems or potential challenges or problems.

So here’s how you’ll know the difference. If it’s a useful way to be thinking about the future, you’ll feel either excited and motivated, or maybe you’ll feel confused and uncertain like this I-don’t-know type of thought and feeling. But if it’s not serving me, it’s useful to stay in the I don’t know and then just be open to it, right? And kind of try to figure things out. But if it’s not useful, it’s going to feel like worry and fear. It might even feel like panic for a lot of people. It feels like panic, okay?

So for example, maybe I’ve got a child who doesn’t seem to be on track in life in the way that our society and maybe even my brain thought that a child should be on track. Maybe that child is not physically healthy in the way that I thought they would be at this point in their lives. Maybe they’re not mentally or emotionally as healthy. Maybe they’re making decisions that I know can have long-term consequences. Maybe they are not achieving in all the ways that we think kids should achieve, whether it be school or social situations, et cetera.

And my brain is now going to the future and creating worry or fear or panic, right? What if he or she doesn’t turn it around? What if they don’t graduate from high school? What if they don’t become healthy adults? What if they don’t get a job? What if they don’t get into college? What if they don’t make friends? What if they don’t get healthy in whatever way? What if, what if, what if, right?

These kinds of thoughts, this kind of thinking about the future creates fear, worry, or panic. Now, your brain thinks that this is useful. Your brain thinks that this is preventative. So I’m not saying you wouldn’t want to be aware of the future or aware of possible consequences, or even share those with your child if you think that they’re not aware. Awareness can be useful, but as soon as it crosses over into worry and fear, it’s no longer useful. It’s really not.

Planning for the future, trying to make choices that will steer towards what we want and away from what we don’t want, that’s useful, but that doesn’t require worry or fear. Did you know this? And in fact, we’re way more effective at doing that when we do it from something less emotionally charged. It doesn’t have to come from positive energy, but it should come from a more neutral, like, “Huh, let’s try to go this way. Let’s see if we can’t go this way,” rather than from worry, fear, or panic.

Because we’ve become manipulative, or we have to start to pretend, or we start to damage current relationships, or we just get really confused and overwhelmed, and we just don’t know what to do. We start worrying about other people’s judgment. We start making it mean something about ourselves. We do all of the things that don’t serve us from this kind of worry, fear, panic. Confusion I would say is the biggest one. Overwhelm is the biggest one I see for people. Like I just don’t know what to do.

So what I recommend if you are in a challenging situation, and I gave the example of a child because I see it with that a lot as I coach a lot of parents and grandparents, but this also can come up for yourself in your own relationships. I’ve coached people who suddenly found out that there has been infidelity in the marriage or that their spouse was lying in some other way. And again, the brain wants to go to panic about the future.

What am I going to do? Are we going to stay together? Are we going to break up? If we split up, is that going to be hard on my kids? If we stay together, is that going to be hard on my kids? If we stay together, are we ever going to have trust again? Are we ever going to have an intimate relationship again? On the other hand, if we break up, am I going to ever meet anyone else or am I going to be alone forever? And is that going to be harder? We want to run away to the future with all the worry, fear and panic, you see it?

So what I always tell someone in this situation is like, we don’t know any of those things yet. We might not know most of them until we get there, like we will cross that bridge when we get there kind of thing, right?

So I love this analogy, because it makes the most sense to me that when we do this, we are trying to put together a 500 piece puzzle – you ever done a 500 piece puzzle? It takes some time. It takes a lot of like testing out pieces and thinking that this piece fits there, but then actually it didn’t. So let’s test another piece. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of trial and error, but it’s doable. It’s doable, right? 500 piece puzzle, especially if you have the box there and you know what you’re trying to create and you have all the pieces, then you can organize the pieces. You can get them set up. We’re really amazing problem solvers, us human beings. Okay?

So the problem with this kind of future thinking and the reason I recommend you steer away from it is because you’re trying to do a 500 piece puzzle, but you only have 15 to 20 pieces. And they’re random pieces. They’re not pieces that all go together. And you don’t even have the box cover to the puzzle. So you don’t even know what you’re trying to build. And the brain freaks out. It’s like, I’ve got these pieces and I can see they go together and I know they probably make a puzzle. I just can’t make them fit. And I don’t know where they’re going to go on the tabletop here where I’m building this puzzle. And it’s making me crazy because I know there’s an answer. I know there’s a solution. I just can’t find it.

This is your brain trying to solve a future problem that doesn’t really exist. In other words, maybe your kid isn’t going to graduate from high school or get into college or make friends or whatever you’re worried about. Well, is that happening today? No. Right? Today, maybe they’re a senior in high school, but it’s not graduation day yet. So, if and when it does happen, and the closer we get, the more information we will have, the more puzzle pieces we will gather.

But as of today, what do we know? What decisions do we need to make this week? Do I want to make the kid go to school or not? And these answers are different for different people and with different kids and even at different times in your experience with your kids. Sometimes what feels right to you might be a little bit of holding them accountable and telling them that you have certain expectations and if they don’t meet them, these are the consequences and you love them, but this is the expectation as long as they’re going to be supported by you.

And other times what feels like the right thing might be a more generous outpouring of unconditional love. And listen, you don’t have to do any of that stuff for us to love you. You’re always welcome here. We’ll figure it out later. I don’t know what’s the right thing to do, and I think it depends. And you’re the best one to know that as the child’s parent or caregiver.

So we don’t have to know is the good news. We don’t have to know what we’re going to do next year or how we’re going to help the child in 10 years if they’re still struggling. Because that’s not even happening. That’s not a real problem right now. All we have to know is actually what we’re going to do in the next minute.

So the more extreme your challenge, the more severe your challenge, the more emotionally charged your challenge, the shorter you want your lens length to be. So for example, if there is a fire, if suddenly like I’m sitting in the back office right now, back behind my house, and if there’s a fire, then I don’t need to think about what we’re going to make for dinner, which even though dinner is only in a few hours, I don’t really need to be focused on that. I need to be focused on how am I going to make sure I get out of this room and get to safety and get all the people who could be impacted to safety and alert someone to help me put out this fire in the next minute. That’s it. That’s all I need to be focused on. I don’t need to worry about what’s happening next week or what’s happening tomorrow, right?

That’s an extreme challenge that could have extreme consequences, I only need to focus on the next minute to minute. If I have something that I could focus on for a day and all I need to know is what are we going to do today, but you can come to answers about the rest of the day, great, I’m in.

You test it out, right? You go, what if I focus a week out? What if I make a decision about how we’re going to navigate this challenge or problem, whether or not I’m going to stay in my marriage, whether or not I should talk to my kids about this, whether or not I should – all these decisions that have to be made.

If I try to make them for the next week, do I know what to do? Can I get to, I think I’m going to do this this week. I think this feels right for the week. Okay. Then go to a week. Can I do it for a month? If you try to go to a month and you suddenly find yourself panicking or worrying or feeling afraid, then that you’ve gone too far. Pull it back in. Okay. Just for this week. The next week we’ll decide again. Or again, just for today. All I have to decide is for today, right?

When we are in the thick of depression, it really is minute to minute, right? If we’re really down, really struggling, it’s what do I want to do for the next minute? Can I just tolerate being a human for the next minute, for the next five minutes, for the next hour?

So the more severe your challenge, the more emotionally charged, the more difficult it is, the more decisions there are that are going to need to be made that we don’t have enough information to make, the shorter we want our lens length to be. And here’s the really good news I have for you. You are probably an amazing problem solver. You are an amazing puzzle doer. I don’t mean literally, I mean with the puzzles that life gives you, the challenges that come up. And the truth is I’m always amazed at human beings’ ability to get creative and solve problems.

So there were a bunch of moms texting in the neighborhood where I live today about school assignments because the school assignments came out, who has which teachers and who’s going to be in which class. And the assignments weren’t supposed to come out or they weren’t going to be posted in the place where we can see them really easily until three o’clock today.

But at like nine o’clock this morning, my phone started blowing up and people were like, I figured out that you can go to this place and see who the teacher is. But then you had to have certain logins and passwords of your kids in order to get to it. And of course, our kids don’t know what any of that is. So then everyone was figuring out, oh, this is how it works. They combine some kind of ID code with a birthdate and a graduation year and whatever. And if you put that all together and then you add this email to the end, then this is the password, then you can get in.

I was just like cracking up at the ingenuity of people to figure out how to see this information because they didn’t want to have to wait till the end of the day because they’re just so excited or maybe their kids are excited or anxious or whatever. Trying to get this information, I was like, look at what amazing problem solvers we are when we know what we’re up against.

We’re like, okay, this is the information I need. These are the challenges getting in my way, the roadblocks, I use my amazing brain to go to work problem solving. And you will do that with whatever challenges come up in your life if you choose to. You can do that at any time.

What you can’t do is that level of problem solving when we don’t even know what the challenges are. We don’t even know what the roadblocks are. We don’t know that there’s a login and a password that our kids have, but don’t remember that we need to get into the website. We couldn’t have known that until we got to this point saw the roadblock. Are you with me?

So sometimes you have to remind this amazing part of your brain that’s capable of trying to avoid problems that it can settle down because we don’t actually have that problem now. All we have to figure out is the next week, the next day, the next hour, the next minute. And you can stop thinking about it. The future now, brain. Thank you for looking out for me.

All right, everybody, thanks for joining me for today’s podcast. If you have questions about this, shoot them over to me on Instagram, in my DMs, I like to pop in there from time to time, or you can bring them to me in The Lab, of course, if you’re in there, or call into our podcast hotline and leave me a message at 888-HI-JODY-M. I would love to hear from you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. Have a beautiful rest of your week.

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The post 475. When to NOT Think About the Future appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Have you ever struggled to support an adult in your life who is going through a difficult time? Whether it’s your grown children, siblings, parents, spouse, or friends, it can be challenging to know how to show up and love them in the most effective way.

As our children grow into adults and face their own struggles, it’s natural to want to jump in and fix things for them. But is that really the best way to love and support them? Today, I explore why trying to control or save others can actually reinforce their problems, and what to do instead to empower them.

If you’ve ever felt frustrated, helpless, or resentful when trying to support a struggling adult, join me this week as I explore how to navigate these tricky dynamics while maintaining healthy boundaries. You’ll learn my perspective on the roles we often fall into when supporting adults who are struggling, the traps to avoid, and how to show up with love while still honoring your own well-being.

If you’re spinning in confusion, overwhelm, and decision about your niche and it’s preventing you from growing your business, join me for Nail Your Niche. In this two-hour workshop, you’ll learn how to choose the right niche so you can finally move forward. Click here to register.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why pouring your emotional energy into your adult children is not actually healthy or helpful. * The three simple but challenging jobs you have as a parent. * How to identify unfulfilled desires within yourself as your children leave the nest, and channel them in positive ways. * The importance of being open to new possibilities and opportunities, even if they sound nonsensical at first. * Why trying to be a savior to struggling adults can reinforce their victim mentality and keep them stuck. * How to stop playing the villain or savior role, and empower others to find their own solutions. * The importance of feeling your feelings and managing your mind in order to show up and love others effectively.

Whether it’s your adult children, your siblings, parents, spouse, or friends, being loving and supportive to another adult who is struggling is difficult, because we’re talking about people who have their own thoughts, feelings, desires, and we have our own emotions and agendas that get wrapped up in all of it. In an ideal world, everyone agrees about everything and behaves in a way that we all like and we live happily ever after. But that would actually be boring and weird. The real world is so much better than that made-up world because the real world gives us opportunities for true connection with ourselves, with others, and for growth. This is episode 474, How to Support Adults Who Are Struggling.

What’s up, everybody? Welcome to the podcast. Hey, next week, I am teaching Nail Your Niche. If you are a coach and you aren’t clear on your niche, you can’t tell me who you help and what is the transformation you provide for them, then you need to join me for Nail Your Niche because this will keep you stuck. This will keep you spinning. I know you’ve already experienced it. You’re not very focused. You’re not very confident about what you’re saying because you’re not sure you’ve got it right.

Come to Nail Your Niche. It’s less than a hundred dollars. We’re going to spend two hours together, and by the end, you’re going to have your niche nailed down. I’m going to give you a whole list of possible niches that I think are awesome to try out. But more importantly, I’m going to tell you how to find the right one for you. So I will see you there. Head to jodymoore.com/niche, N-I-C-H-E. Again that’s jodymoore.com/niche, N-I-C-H-E for all coaches. I’ll see you at Nail Your Niche.

Okay, so today’s topic totally just appeared for me in the coaching that I did this morning. Just had a coaching call with some VIPs from The Lab. And then also a question that came in a little while ago, actually. This has been sitting in my inbox for a while, but I felt like the question went along nicely with some of the coaching we did. And so it feels like this topic is in the air for some reason, and I want to speak to it. So let me go ahead and play the question that came in. And again, if you have a question you would like to send me, you can always reach out to me, leave me a voicemail at 888-HI-JODY-M. That’s 888-HI-JODY with a Y, M as in Moore. All right, let’s play the question. Here we go.

“Hi, Jody. My name’s Julie. And my question for you today is how can we as wives, mothers, and individuals continue to love and support our kids as they’re getting older when we’re so used to putting so much emotional energy and physical energy into them and then it becomes no longer appropriate to channel that towards them and it needs to be redirected towards something else. I’m finding myself at a loss as my kids are getting older, half of them out of the house, half of them in the house, and realizing that it’s no longer appropriate for me to put all of the emotional energy into them. They don’t want it. They don’t need it, but then it makes me sad. I need to find something. So, I guess my question is, how do we balance that changing life stage in a way that’s honoring and loving to myself and to my husband and to my kids. Thank you so much for all you do. So much appreciate the coaching that’s available through your podcast. All right. Bye.”

Well, hello, Julie. Thank you for that beautiful question. So I’m going to talk to you about how to best support your adult children. But again, I wanted to make this episode relevant in a lot of different situations because it’s going to be mostly the same, whether it’s my adult children or my sister or my friend with a few tweaks in a certain space that I’ll address in just a minute.

Okay. So there’s a couple things in the way you asked your question that I want to point out, even to those of you that don’t have a struggling adult in your life, maybe your kids are young. The way you talk about as your kids were younger, putting so much emotional energy into them was the verbiage that you used. And I’ll be honest, that terminology kind of worries me a little bit. Not worries, like you haven’t done anything wrong, but I just want to question it.

I want to call it out because I don’t think it’s actually ever really appropriate for us to put a whole bunch of emotional energy into our kids. I think it’s appropriate to love your kids. And I think you’re going to have a lot of emotions as you raise and love your kids and teach your kids and parent your kids in whatever way you want to. But I worry about parents, and it seems to be more common with mothers, but it can happen either way, overly pouring themselves into their children in this way. I don’t think it’s actually healthy or useful. I don’t think it’s what our kids want, and I don’t think it’s what they need.

And I think that as they get older, they become more aware of what they actually want and need, and they become able to express it, or even in some cases, maybe create boundaries, as they realize they don’t want our emotional energy poured into them. Whereas when they’re younger, they’re maybe not aware, or they’re certainly not able to verbalize it or navigate the relationship. So I don’t think that that part changes. If you have young kids, I think this is still going to be really relevant for you to consider.

And so I bring that up, Julie, not to say that you’ve been doing it wrong. That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying, let’s rethink about your role as a mother, what it could be for your younger kids and what it could be for your adult kids. Because I think there’s only one part of it that needs to change as they age, and that is how you love them.

And I know that’s probably what you mean when you ask me the question this way. What you mean is how do I best love them? But just the way you describe putting so much of your emotion and your effort and your attention and your energy into them concerns me. Honestly, it does.

I think that our job when it comes to raising these kids is not to think of our children like a project. I see a lot of parents still thinking about their kids as a project, like we have these first 18 years to first of all, protect them and take care of them and then teach them and guide them and “parent” them, whatever that even means, right?

Maybe have rules and consequences and guidelines and monitor their phone time and force them to take sports or whatever parenting means to you. And then, hopefully, if we can do it to the best of our ability, then by the time they turn 18 or by the time they leave the house or whatever, then they’re going to be confident, resilient, good people who go to church, make good decisions, are healthy, are smart and educated, are kind and compassionate. And if we turn out that kind of an adult, then yay, our project worked. Okay?

I know logically when I say it out loud, it sounds kind of ridiculous, but that is still the mindset so many parents are operating from. They think of their kids like a goal, and there’s an end to this goal, which is we hope they turn out a certain way, or at least we hope that they feel loved and that they know God loves them. Sometimes we try to like whittle down the goal as we realize like, wait a second, this kid is making his own choices, it’s very disappointing, I don’t like his choices, he’s not, he’s not always happy, he’s not always confident, whatever it is.

So maybe we just whittled the goal down to like, now my goal is just that he knows I love him. That’s still, I don’t think, the healthiest approach. It still is you believing that your job is to somehow manipulate this child into thinking or feeling or believing something. And I just don’t believe that’s our job. I know it’s not even possible because I see it backfire all the time.

The best parents with the best of intentions who have kids that don’t turn out the way they thought they were going to. What went wrong? And suddenly we’re confused and we’re heartbroken and now we’re judging. Maybe we didn’t do it right. Maybe if I had done a better job on this project, I would have gotten a better result here. And I’m saying, no, no, no, you’re thinking about it all wrong. Your kids are not a project for you to pour your emotional energy into them. And then once they become adults, you’re done with that project. And now we have to figure out what’s next. That is not, I don’t think the most useful way to think about our role with these kids.

So what is the way? Let me just be clear. I have no idea what is the right way. I’m just going to tell you the way that I found works really well for me and has worked well for a lot of parents to think about our role with our kids. I think that we only have three jobs, that’s it. I think it’s actually really three simple tasks that can be challenging to figure out how to execute and to keep our heads straight in staying in our lane of these simple tasks and not adding a bunch of other stuff, but it is actually pretty basic, okay? And I’m going to put them in this order on purpose.

I think our first job is just to get better at feeling our own feelings as we go on this journey of raising kids, okay? You’re going to have a lot of emotions if you’re like me and like most of the people I coach, okay? Being a parent means that I have felt the most intense love I’ve ever felt in my life. I’ve felt extreme joy and happiness and gratitude and love. And being a parent also means that I’ve experienced more stress, anxiety, heartache, concern, disappointment, probably than ever in my life as well.

Now, my kids are not creating any of those feelings. I’m creating them with my ideas about how the world should be, about how my children should be, about myself and what they think of me or what I think of me or how we interact with one another or whether or not I’m missing out on something or whether or not they’re missing out on something. Like all those stories in my head about the world, about myself, about them, about other people are creating those emotions and it’s all good. It’s all natural, normal, nothing wrong with any of the stories I have, just lots of feelings.

Okay, there was another question. I can’t remember if it was on our hotline or where it came in, but somebody said, can you help me not think so many thoughts and feel so many feelings? I’m like, no, that’s not the goal. The goal is not to stop thinking thoughts and feeling feelings. The goal isn’t to dehumanize you. The goal is to reconnect you with your human self, to lean into your human self, to first and foremost, allow feelings, to learn how to process them, to take deep breaths and relax and let those chemicals circulate in your body and let your body process them in whatever way it needs to. Maybe you need to cry. Maybe you need to throw up. Maybe you need to go on a walk and move your body. I believe that moving your body helps move your emotions through you. So there can be lots of ways to do this. We spend lots of time in The Lab doing this. I do this with people all the time.

I just had a woman today on the call who was struggling with something with, ironically enough, her adult son, and she was sad. She was like trying to move on from it. I’m like, “No, no, no, let’s be sad first.” She’s like, “Well, I think I can get past that part, but what about this part?” I’m like, “No, no, come back to me. We’re being sad. Why are you trying to run away from the sad? Let’s just be sad.” And we did a little sadness together for a minute. It was really a beautiful moment. And it wasn’t that painful and it didn’t paralyze her. And it actually, I could see that human connection show up again. And she had incredible wisdom that came after we just allowed some sadness.

Okay, so that’s your first job as a parent is to get better at feeling the feelings that you’re going to create for yourself as you raise children. Welcome to the human experience. Your second job as a parent is to manage your own mind. What I mean by that is to choose intentionally what you want to think and believe about your children.

This is an example of it here. When I say to you, this is the way I think about my job as a parent. This is a story or a belief system I’ve chosen on purpose. What I mean by on purpose is I sat down and asked myself, what is my role as a parent? And of course I have lots of things trying to inform that decision, right? I have the way I see people around me parenting, the way my parents raised me, what I think my kids prefer, what I’ve seen on the movies, what I’ve read in books, what I’ve listened to on podcasts, all of those things are informing my decision and that’s fine, but rather than just take them as they come, I’m stopping and going, “Wait a second, based on what I know and my experience and what I just choose to believe” – that’s mind management.

It’s choosing intentionally what you’re going to believe. And then as your brain tries to go, oh, maybe I should be doing this differently. Maybe I should be more like that person. I go, no, this is what I decided. And I feel good about that decision. Come back to me, brain, unless we need to revisit it. Then we’re going to stay here with this story.

And so you’ll have opportunities to do that all the time. You’ll have opportunities to decide what you’re going to believe about your child’s choices, about whether or not they should go to college, about whether or not they need to go to school at all, about whether or not they should be respecting you, or their struggles and challenges are unfair, or whether or not they can handle them. There’s going to be all kinds of things that you’ll have the opportunity to manage your mind around. That is your second job.

First job, process and allow feelings. Second job, manage your mind. Third job is to love them. Now, I know that sounds really vague. What does that even mean? Well, it is vague because it changes as your kids grow and change. And it might even look different from one child to the next. How do I best love them in this situation? When we have little babies and little ones at home, there’s a lot involved in loving them.

Loving them means making their meals and cleaning up their messes and changing their diapers and making sure they don’t run in the street and listening to them and playing with them. And there’s a lot to loving a toddler who’s highly – or a baby who’s very dependent on us, right? Or a young child.

As the children get older, loving them changes form. So how do I best love them? This is an amazing golden question that I recommend you keep in your back pocket. It’s useful with your kids. It’s useful with your siblings and your friends. It’s useful with any person. How do I best love them right now in this situation?

Now, notice I’m not saying, how do they want me to love them? Because the way they want me to love them may not be what I think is the best way to love them, right? This is obvious with kids. Like the way they would like me to love them is to have no rules, no restrictions, anything goes, we eat any kind of food we want and whatever else your kids might want. Okay, that you might think, maybe that’s not good for them. Maybe limiting screen time, maybe having some guidelines and some regulations and things, maybe that’s the best way to love them. Okay, I’m in.

But at other times, what’s the best way to love them might be to leave them alone, to give them space. It might be to honor their wishes and desires, even when they feel contrary to my wishes and desires. It might be to be curious about why they view the world differently than I do instead of feeling threatened or making it mean something about myself or my parenting. Having a boundary of my own and saying no at times or backing off, right? How do I best love them?

Now, I can’t love other people more than I love myself. That’s just my personal belief. So you have to also be doing the work of loving you. How do I better love me and how do I love them? And in any given situation, how do I love both of us? It’s a great, great question to ask yourself.

Okay, so with your adult children, if you’re sensing that what they want is a little space, a little distance, a little bit more respect for their agency and allowance for their own decisions and a little bit less guidance, a little bit less communication, whatever it is, if you feel a pushing away a little bit, like I sense a little bit, Julie is, then I love the second part of your question, Julie, where you say, “What do I do with this desire that I have?” I think you said, “How do I channel this into a different place?” And I love that question so much for you. And it’s a difficult question. I don’t know the answer to it, but I want to guide you to try to find the answer for yourself, okay?

So first, what is this I’m trying to channel? What is my desire or the void that I’ve now created? Like it literally might just be that your kids took up some of your time and now you want something to fill your time that feels challenging and rewarding.

It might be that you have a real desire to love and nurture and guide and teach, and that’s a beautiful thing and we need to find a way to direct that. It might be a creativity desire, that being a parent, if you have some creativity that can be really useful, and now you don’t have a place to utilize that like you used to, okay. Maybe you’re a really good listener and you used to be with those kids and they needed someone, a listening ear a lot, and now they don’t need that. What am I going to do with my skill and desire to listen and hold space for someone?

So these are all beautiful things, whatever it is for you. When you say, I need to channel this into something else, what is this? What is it that you have a desire to do or be or contribute that used to get fulfilled as you were raising those children that now you feel this void in?

Because as you identify it, let’s say you realize like, I just love teaching and guiding. Okay. Well, what do I want to do with my skills and my desire to teach and guide? The sky’s the limit. There’s a lot of things I could do. Are there any people in the world that could use somebody with the skills of teaching and guiding? Heck yeah. Okay. Maybe that’s my calling next. Maybe that’s where I channel this.

So we really can take on now a project or a job or a degree program we enroll in, or a volunteer opportunity we choose to spend our time in, like, sky’s the limit, a business you want to start. But it’s such a great and cool thing, I think, that we have these desires and these unfulfilled sort of needs, if you will, that they get met sometimes in our relationships and then those relationships change? So yeah, I love that question. What are you going to do with it? Let’s figure it out. And don’t make it a big existential, I have to figure out my purpose kind of thing. Just like what sounds interesting and fun to me right now?

Like today, I really would encourage you all to keep your minds a little bit more open. I know a lot of you struggle with this, finding my purpose, especially after your kids start getting older and leaving the house. I try to really keep my mind open to like, I’m curious about this thing. Maybe I’m going to explore that. And then sometimes I take a class and realize, no, I don’t want to go that way. Other times I keep going with it for a while.

I even, the other day, walked into Anthropologie because I just kind of wanted to get out of my house and walk around a little. And I thought, oh, I’m going to go to Anthropologie because it’s always so pretty in there. And I love that store. And I walked in and was walking around and seeing all the things I love. And it’s really pleasant in there and I was realizing I don’t really want to buy anything. I don’t need anything from this store. I have plenty of clothes and home decor and all the things and there’s things I like but I don’t really want to spend my money on it and I don’t want more stuff in my house right now. So why am I here?

And I realized I just like this environment and I had this thought, “Maybe I should just go get a job at Anthropologie or a store like it.” Just a small part-time job not because I want to make extra money necessarily. Just because I want to get out of my house, be around people, different kinds of people, people with different values and you know people that aren’t just like me and have an opportunity every day or every time I go to work I should say to meet new people and interact with people and serve people and be around things that are beautiful and smell good and maybe that’s all I’m seeking.

And part of my brain is like, “Oh, that’s dumb. You’re not going to go get a job at Anthropologie. Like, why would you do that? That doesn’t make any sense. And you already have this business and you’re so busy and you’ve got four kids and blah, blah, blah.” Okay, so don’t listen to that brain right away. I’m not saying that I actually haven’t put in an application at Anthropologie or anything, but I just let it be there and I let myself be open to it. And I might actually, I might.

I let myself genuinely be open to ideas that sound kind of like they don’t exactly make sense. I know that’s not like a huge outside the box thing that I’m describing, but I have others sometimes that don’t make any sense at all. And I would encourage you to stay open to those, especially as your kids are leaving the house. You got to be open to like, I don’t know why I want to do this. It doesn’t exactly make sense logically on paper, but I’m going to maybe explore it and see where it goes.

Okay, so I want to take this to now, those of you that have, maybe it’s not your kids that are struggling, but maybe it is your siblings. Maybe it is a close friend. Maybe it’s a parent, okay? And they’re struggling in some way. Maybe it’s really obvious, like they’ve gone through something that you know would be challenging.

They’re experiencing grief from some kind of tragedy or they have a health problem, or a mental or physical health problem, or both, or something that you can easily point to and go, that thing was the catalyst into the struggle they’re in right now. Other times it’s not so obvious, right? Other times we’re just like, I don’t know why she’s suddenly mad at me, or I don’t know what’s going on. I thought things are fine. Suddenly I got this nasty text message. I don’t know what’s happening, okay?

So either way, if people are struggling, your job, just like in parenting, is threefold. Number one, feel your feelings. It would be weird if we didn’t feel any negative emotion when people that we love are struggling. And especially if they’re struggling in such a way that they’re creating “
problems” for us. I’m just going to say that in quotes because we always are creating the problems in our minds. But here’s what I mean by that.

Maybe you have a brother who’s going through a divorce and he needs a lot of support and help, and at times he sends you text messages saying he’s disappointed in the support and help that you’re providing. He doesn’t think it’s enough or it’s not right, or he doesn’t think you’re supportive at all or whatever. Okay?

So maybe he’s acting out in a way that you’re like, wait, I get my brother is struggling, but now he’s mad at me and now I’m struggling. Okay? So again, of course I want to be sad for my brother or whatever emotions come up for me, clean pain about his struggle. And then when he’s mad at me, I want to feel sad about that too. I want to feel disappointed. So I got to do lots of feeling feelings.

Here we go, this human stuff, but I’ll tell you, as you feel feelings, as you practice it, as you breathe and allow and relax and move your body so that you can move those emotions through you, it is actually really easy. It becomes part of your daily routine. It’s just something you do naturally. You don’t have to have a timeout and a quiet space for it. You’ll get better at doing it the more you do it. So that’s job number one, feel your feelings.

Job number two, manage your mind. Choose intentionally how you’re going to think about your brother, otherwise, if your brain is anything like mine, it’ll start building a case against him and how ungrateful he is and how we can’t believe he did that. And then another part of me will build a case against me and how I’m a terrible sister. And then I will start trying to manipulate his feelings and I will be walking on eggshells, afraid of upsetting him. And all of that doesn’t help my relationship with my brother or with myself. So you got to choose intentionally how you’re going to think about this story.

And then finally, I’m going to love him. I’m going to love him in the way that feels best to me, that honors both my love for him and my love for myself. What does that look like? I don’t know. It’s a valid question though, right? How much am I willing to do? I’ll tell you, it involves telling the truth, being as honest as possible, not pretending, not trying to manipulate, not tiptoeing around things, just having honest conversations like, “Gosh, I love you. And I, I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. And this is what I’m willing to do and this is what I’m not willing to do. And I hope you’re not mad at me because I, I like it better when we’re getting along. But if you want to be mad at me, you can, it’s your prerogative. And I’m just going to be over here loving you in the meanwhile.” It’s loving them, right? It’s loving the people who are struggling.

Okay, now here’s the last thing I want to say about this. Actually two more things. I just want to make sure and emphasize loving people is not people pleasing. It’s not trying to control them. It’s not making sure they never feel bad or trying to make sure they feel supported or that they feel whatever, something positive. That’s not the same as loving people.

Loving people is something that you feel and then you choose to show up in a certain way. They may or may not feel it. They may or may not feel appreciation or supported or any of that. It’s not manipulating people and it’s not trying to mold them. Even our children. It’s not trying to control them. It’s not trying to step on their agency. It’s just allowing people to have human emotions and human experiences, even if they blame us for them, and loving them and loving ourselves, which might include boundary work, et cetera, right?

Okay, so the last thing I did want to say is I want to speak to a concept that was introduced to me a couple of years ago when I was going through a challenge with an adult relationship in my life. And it was so eye-opening to me and so helpful to me. And I’ve brought it up several times in coaching since then and found people have a similar reaction of like, “Oh man, that makes so much sense.”

So I want to preface it with, again, as you know, I’m not a therapist. I’m not a clinical specialist. So I’m not an expert in trauma or grief or depression, okay? But I have coached a lot of people to have witnessed this in the real world. So that said, let me just tell the story. I think that will be the most useful. So I was going through a situation where a close friend of mine was upset with me. And this was a friend that I felt like I’d gone out of my way to help a lot. And I wanted to continue to help. And I had zero resentment about that. I was happy to help.

But then the friend suddenly got mad at me and started pointing out my weaknesses and flaws of which there are many. I felt a little bit attacked and was unsure why this was happening. And as I talked to another coach about this topic, she said, “Well, your friend sounds like she’s depressed.” And I was like, “Oh yeah, I think she is.” Like she definitely struggles with her mental health a little bit. And I think she would even be the first to say that she’s depressed or anxious or something.

And she said, “Well, don’t forget that depression fights really hard to stay alive. And depression tells the person who’s struggling that they are a victim.” Okay. So a victim is helpless. And I’m not saying that people aren’t victims sometimes in real life. We really genuinely are sometimes, but even if we have been a victim, the victim mentality portion, right, at a certain point will keep us stuck.

So victim mentality says you can’t do things on your own, and the world’s not fair. So victims, in order to stay alive, the depression fights to find villains and saviors. Okay? If I’m a victim, then I need a bad guy. I need someone or something or some life circumstance or people who are wronging me. Those are the villains, right?

And then I also need saviors to come in and do the things that I’m not capable of doing because I’m a victim. Okay? So what I realized was that this friend of mine was putting me into the savior role, and I was playing it. I was going right along with it. And that didn’t feel good to her, so she put me in the villain role for a minute. Maybe. I don’t know what was going on in her head. But all I know is I don’t want to be a villain or a savior. I don’t want to contribute to that. They may do that in their own minds. There’s nothing I can do about it. But I don’t want to contribute to that for the sake of my friend, because I love my friend. Because it keeps the depression or whatever is keeping them down, it keeps it alive. It reinforces that powerless, painful story that they are a victim.

So what I had to do was stop playing those roles. We stop playing the villain role by stopping the drama that our brains go, maybe it’s true, maybe you’re just not a good friend. Maybe if you were a better mother, a better daughter, a better sister, a better husband, or a better boss, or a better whatever, then this person wouldn’t be upset. You are playing into the villain role, okay?

And when the person – when you jump in, I should say, whether they ask for it or not, sometimes they’re asking for it, other times we’re just jumping in with, “I know, I’ll come over and do this for you, and I’ll solve this problem, and I can send you money, and I can come in,” whatever, fill in the blank, all the helpful things, in an attempt to try to help them feel better, we can be contributing to the savior role that they’ve created in their minds, which reinforces, “See, you can’t do this on your own. You need the help of this other person. You need them to save you.”

So what’s the alternative? If we’re accused of something wrong and they’re putting us in the villain role, sometimes I pause and go, I can see where they’re coming from. Yeah, I actually do do that annoying thing, or I’m not good at that. I want to acknowledge my shortcomings, but I’m not going to overly indulge in that experience. I’m certainly not going to get dramatic and try to manipulate them. That’s just not necessary and not useful, okay?

More often what I see is people stepping into the savior role, unknowingly reinforcing the problem. So you have to pull away. You have to stop playing the savior. You have to step back and go, “Listen, I love you so much, and I’m so sorry you’re suffering like this. What do you think you’re going to do about it?” That’s it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been coaching somebody about their adult children, and they don’t know what to do, and they don’t know how, they know it’s their journey, but I want to help, and I want to support, and I don’t know what to do, and they kind of are pushing me away, and I’m like, “Yeah, the next time they call you with a challenge, you just say, gosh, I’m sorry, that sounds so hard. What do you think you’re going to do?” That’s it, you let them come up with the ideas. You show them that you believe in their own ability to find the solutions to their own problems. The depression can’t survive that, right?

If they believed that they had the solutions to their problems and they were capable of handling their challenges, then they would stop being victims in their own minds. And depression doesn’t like that. Mental illness doesn’t like that. It’s going to try to fight against it. And all I’m saying is I don’t want to contribute to the problem.

Now, it doesn’t mean you can’t follow it up sometimes with, “Is there anything I can do to support you?” But don’t just jump in there saving the day with your cape on anymore. It’s really not useful, even with your children, okay? I know this is not easy to do. It requires that we pay attention to our own minds, that we do the jobs one and two of allowing your feelings, feeling feelings, and then managing your mind.

You’ve got to do those two things in order to be able to do this effectively, but we can do it, I promise my friends. All right, thanks for joining me on today’s podcast. I love you, and I will see you next week for another episode, bye-bye.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 474. How to Support Adults Who Are Struggling appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Are you a coach struggling to find clients, grow your business, and get to that elusive seven-figure mark? In this episode, I reveal the real reasons why you may not have a full coaching practice – and spoiler alert, it’s probably not what your brain is telling you.

As coaches, it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that our lack of clients is a reflection of our own inadequacies. But the truth is there are a variety of external factors that play a much bigger role in our ability to attract and retain clients. All progress starts from the truth, and in this episode, I help you take an honest look at yourself to assess where the gaps might be presenting.

Join me this week to learn the nine key factors that could be holding you back from achieving the full coaching practice you desire. You’ll hear the top five myths many people believe about why coaches don’t have clients, why they aren’t true, and my tips for overcoming the common pitfalls coaches face.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* 5 reasons you think you don’t have clients to coach, and why they aren’t true. * The 9 real reasons you don’t have clients to coach. * Why selling becomes much easier when you have a compelling offer. * The difference between consistency and perfection. * How to generate a steady stream of new leads and potential clients for your coaching practice. * The role that investing time, money, and effort plays in growing a successful coaching business.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
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Grab the Podcast Roadmap!

Welcome to Better Than Happy. Listen up, this episode is for my fellow coaches. I was listening to a business marketing podcast earlier this week and they said that the easiest business to make one to three million dollars per year in is a coaching/teaching/expert type of business. It is the business where you can achieve that milestone the fastest and the easiest. And the reason why is because there is such low overhead required, the cost is minimal, which means the risk is minimal and it requires almost no team to a very small team.

So maybe you are wanting to get to that elusive seven figure mark, or maybe you’re just wanting a nice steady flow of clients in your business. Either way, if you’re not there yet, I can tell you the reason why, and it’s probably not what your brain is telling you, or even what your friends or your spouse might think it is. So, what is it? That’s what I’m about to tell you. This is episode 473, Why You Don’t Have Clients to Coach. Let’s go.

What’s happening, friends? It’s been a while since I have done an episode speaking directly to my fellow coaches, building businesses, and I felt like it was time. So, I know a lot of you who are not coaches or don’t have businesses tell me that you love these episodes as well, that you get a lot out of them. And I really do think that what I’m about to tell my coach friends is probably relevant in a certain area of your life as well, with a few tweaks and modifications.

So, thanks for indulging us coaches today. If you’re not a coach, give it a listen and feel free to forward it to anybody you know who does have a small business that might be able to relate to this, especially if they’re a coach, teacher, healer or expert.

So, before we get into the reasons why you don’t have as many clients as you wish you had, so that obviously I want you to know why so that you can then do something about that. I want to talk to you about your niche. Do you have a niche or a target market or whatever words you want to use to describe what you do and who it’s for and who it’s not for and specifically what the transformation is that you provide?

If you are spinning in confusion and indecision and overwhelm and this topic has got you stuck and not able to grow your business the way you want or not able to scale the way you want or not even able to get started or take whatever next steps then I want to help you with that. And I want you to know first of all that you don’t need to feel bad about it. You don’t need to get frustrated or be ashamed. It’s the number one topic not just in our industry but in other industries like ours. So don’t feel bad. I totally get it.

I actually have recently gone through an experience with this same kind of niche drama or confusion as I’m trying to get some public speaking work off the ground. And I’ll tell you more about that at a workshop I have coming up called Nail your Niche. I want to encourage you to come and join me for Nail your Niche if you have any confusion about this topic. Because while it is, again, the most common stuck point for coaches, it is also the most poisonous one, the most toxic one.

If you don’t get over this, you will not move forward with the force and focus that I want you to have to achieve success. And I say that because I’ve witnessed it over and over again. I’ve experienced it myself. And like I said, not just in my industry, but in every other industry, even somewhat similar to ours, that is the case. So, let’s not spin in that kind of confusion and overwhelm and frustration anymore. Come to Nail your Niche at jodymoore.com/niche. It’s happening very soon so, you’ve got to get on it.

But I am going to teach you exactly how to choose the right niche. I’m even going to give you a list of possible niches. I’m going to tell you a little bit about the ones I’ve seen be successful and why I think that is. And I’m going to talk to you about there are actually a handful of cases when I don’t think you need to have a target market or a niche to be successful. So come and join me. It’s a two hour workshop and we’re going to do the work together and by the end you will have your niche ready to go and you can finally move forward if you execute the things I’m going to teach you.

So again, jodymoore.com/niche which is N-I-C-H-E. Again, jodymoore.com/niche N-I-C-H-E. Join me for Nail your Niche. It’s going to be a good time.

Alright, so let’s talk about why you don’t have as many clients as you want to have, whatever that number might be for you, if you don’t have as many. If you do have as many as you want. Great. You might not need this episode, but if you don’t, I want you to listen up. And I want to begin by explaining to you what are not the reasons why you don’t have enough clients. And I want to begin here because these are the reasons that you might think you don’t have enough clients. And I promise you, these are not the reasons. I can say with certainty they are not. So, I have five non-reasons before we get into the nine reasons.

Non-reason number one is that there’s something wrong with you, that you’re just not good enough in some way. That is not the reason that you don’t have clients. It’s not because you’re just not good enough, charismatic enough, smart enough, clever enough, unique enough. I promise you, it’s not about you. Now, is there something wrong with you? I mean, yeah, just like all of us, we’re human beings. Where shall we begin? We all have weaknesses and shortcomings. And yet no, nothing wrong with there being something wrong with you.

Are you brilliant and charismatic and creative and amazing in all the ways you want to be? I mean probably in some ways and not in other ways and that’s okay, it doesn’t matter. You don’t have to be able to help people. So, I promise you, it’s not about you. People want and need a lot of help in our world today. Have you noticed there’s a lot of challenges, a lot of problems, a lot of people struggling, a lot of people suffering? And you have knowledge and skills and experience that can help them. That’s why you got into this in the first place. So that’s all we need to know.

It’s not about you. You don’t have to be brilliant. You don’t have to be super good looking on camera. You don’t have to be good with words. You don’t have to be good at [taking 07:47], it’s not about you. It’s not that there’s something wrong with you.

Number two reason is the economy. I promise you, it’s not about the economy. How could I say that when probably people around you are telling you it is because of the economy. It’s not because of the economy. Do you know how I know? There are tons of coaches and teachers and people in the space of education who are very successful in the same economy that you’re working in. How could that be? There are people who are making more money right now than they ever have before.

There are businesses taking off and growing in this economy, even businesses like yours and mine, coaching businesses, teaching businesses. So, if that’s true, then it can’t be the economy holding you back because that would be the case for everyone if that were true. Are you with me? It’s not because of the economy. Get that out of your head if you’re thinking that.

Number three thing that is not the reason why, is that somebody else is already doing it better than you. People tell me this all the time. They say, “I want to coach on whatever topic, but there’s this person who I first learned about this topic from, and I’m pretty sure they’re doing it better than me. So how am I ever going to be successful? Who would come to me when this other person’s already doing it better than me?”

Listen, I get it. My brain tries to play that card on me sometimes too, but I promise you that’s not the reason. Because there are plenty of people in the world, people actually say this to me sometimes, if I have coaches who are similar to me, for example, women who are members of the LDS Church and maybe they want to help women who are also members of the church in some way. And they say to me, “But you’re already doing it, Jody Moore, so how am I ever going to be successful?” And I say to them, “Hold on. Does everyone in your ward know about me? Are they all in my coaching program?”

And the answer is, of course, no. And then I say, “Is there anybody in your ward in my coaching program?” And the answer is usually no. So, I say, “I’m pretty sure that your ward is a fair sample, a good representation of most of the words out there so I think there might still be some LDS women who need some help, who don’t know about me, and maybe they don’t like me. Maybe my way of delivering these tools isn’t going to land for them and they need you instead.” I promise it’s not because somebody else is doing it better.

When somebody tries to go to dental school and says, “I’m going to be a dentist.” We never say to them, “Well, there’s a lot of dentists out there. I mean, everybody already has a dentist. I don’t know how you’re going to succeed.” And yet that’s the truth. Most people I know have a dentist. But if somebody says they’re going to go to dental school, we say, “Great career choice.” Why do we not think that way about coaching? Because it’s the same. Everyone needs a dentist.

Everyone with a brain could benefit from a coach or anyone who has a problem could benefit from coaching. Anyone who has goals and dreams they want to achieve could use a coach. We’ve just got to educate people about that.

Number four thing that is not the reason why you don’t have clients is because people just can’t afford your program. This is what people tell me. They’ll say, “Well, I found some people who are interested and I’ve talked to them, but they all just say they can’t afford it. Nobody can afford it.” And that is not the reason why, my friend. There are people who can afford your program. You just need to go find those people. You need to find the ones who want what you offer and they want it enough that they’ll pay money to get it.

And they like the way you talk about it and the way you deliver it and they want you to be the one to help them. Those are your people. The ones who don’t like you, who don’t have the problem you solve, who don’t want the transformation you provide, or who don’t have the money to pay for it are not your people. We love them. We try to put free tools and resources out there to help people as well, but they’re not the people that you’re creating your programs for. You’re creating it for the people who can afford it, we just need to go find them. Are you with me?

And then number five reason that I hear people say that I promise you is not the reason you don’t have clients is because, I’m just going to call it marketing doesn’t work. But you can fill in marketing, you can substitute any kind of tool or technology or strategy or whatever you want in place of the word marketing. But people say to me over and over again, “Well, I’ve been posting on Instagram but it’s just not working or I’ve been running a Facebook ad but it’s not working or I’ve been emailing my list but that’s not working.”

It’s not because those strategies don’t work. I promise you, the reason you’re trying those strategies is because somebody told you to try them, somebody who had success with them. So, if they work for someone else, they could work for you. But it’s not the strategy that doesn’t work. It’s just you haven’t figured it out quite yet. So those five things are not the reasons that you don’t have clients, special emphasis on number one, that there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s not about you not being good enough or smart enough or whatever.

So, let’s talk about then what are the reasons why. Now, again, the reason I’m offering you this is because I believe that all progress starts from the truth. I believe we have to take an honest look at ourselves to assess where the holes or gaps are and be able to then do something about it. Now, why do we not take an honest look at ourselves? Well, first of all, we kind of don’t want to, because most of us tend to feel guilty or shamed when we take an honest look at ourselves.

We look at the truth, and then we judge ourselves and think that we should be better and we should be different. And that’s not what I’m talking about today. That’s not what I want you to do with these things. Sometimes, looking at the honest truth also makes us think that we then have to make a change. You don’t have to make a change. You don’t have to solve for any of these things. I just don’t want you to feel badly about not having as many clients as you want.

Tell yourself the honest truth. I don’t have as many clients because I’m not doing what’s required or you’re not, again, one of these nine things I’m about to tell you. But it’s okay that you’re not doing that thing. Maybe you actually don’t really want to. You want to have clients, but you don’t want to do what’s required to get clients. Alright, that’s okay. Just tell yourself the truth, which is, I could have clients, I just would have to do a bunch of things that I don’t actually really want to do. So maybe I’m okay with having fewer clients or not having clients at this point.

So, let’s dive into what some of these are. Number one, now again, I’m going to give you nine and maybe all nine of these apply to you, maybe just a couple. You’re going to have to self-assess in that regard.

But the number one reason I see coaches do not have as many clients as they want is because they are not doing the work necessary to find and serve their potential clients. Listen, I love marketing actually, I do. And that’s what I mean by finding and serving clients. That’s what marketing is to me. It’s finding the people out there in the world who could benefit from the tools I teach and the coaching I provide and the programs I’ve created and then serving those people.

That requires a significant amount of time and energy and we’re going to talk more about investing in just a minute, time and energy and money, but it requires work. So, I see so many coaches who are similar to me in that they are in the middle of raising kids. They have families at various stages and there’s a lot going on, we’re busy, we’re all busy. And our kids are important. My kids are always going to be first priority to me. My family is very important to me.

But I still know that I have a job that I’ve got to show up for, I’ve got to work. So, it’s tough, don’t get me wrong. It’s summer time right now and I live right by the beach, 10 minutes from the most gorgeous beaches you’ve ever seen here in San Diego. And every day I get tons of text messages from people saying, “We’re going to the beach today, meet at this beach.” And I want to go every day and my kids want to go, but I also know I have a job.

I have a business I created and if I don’t show up and work in that business then the business can’t survive. It needs me to work. And I’m not even talking about coaching calls because those are really fun. I love doing those. Those are easy for me to show up for. It’s the other work of finding and serving potential clients that I tend to want to brush off and just go to the beach instead. But if I don’t do that work I will not have clients to coach.

People don’t just come to me because I’m great or something. Some of you think that, I know this. We have a portion of The Lab called coach access and I work with some of you guys live at various events and things. And you’re like, “Well, I’m sure, yeah, you can get people to come to that course or you can get people in your program. You could get clients because you’re Jody Moore.” And I say, “That’s very nice and flattering of you to think of me that way, but that’s not true.” People don’t just come to my stuff.

I go find people and I do my very best to serve people and then I invite people to come and get more and that is a full-time job for me. So, if you’re not working, then you’re not going to have clients, most likely. I’m just saying, if you do, if you could get clients without working, I’m thrilled for you, more power to you. I haven’t figured out how to do that, though.

Number two reason you may not have enough clients is that you aren’t selling. What is selling? Selling is demonstrating to people the value of taking a step or paying attention or listening or clicking or signing up for something or paying for something. And then participating in the execution of something in their lives so that they can have a little bit better life than they had before. So, you have to explain the value. You have to convince people that it is worth the cost. And I’m not just talking about selling your program.

I’m talking about selling them on listening to the podcast. Do you know that when I do one of these podcasts, I think about, wait a second, what am I going to name the episode? Because what I name it is designed to sell you on clicking play and listening to it. And as I’m talking to you, I’m thinking, how am I going to keep people engaged to get them to listen all the way to the end instead of cutting me off early? I’m constantly trying to sell people on taking advantage of the tools and resources that I have.

And yes, at some point I’m offering people something that costs money. But long before that, I’m selling them on stopping whatever else they’re doing and listening for a moment, or reading something for a moment, or clicking something, or coming to something live. And all these things could be free, many times they are. If you’re not trying to convince people that you have something valuable that they want and need then it’s going to be very difficult to get clients. And it’s because people are busy, we’re not paying attention.

Do you know what we’re paying attention to? The child that’s whining at us, the mess in the kitchen that nobody cleaned up and we thought they were going to. There’s just things all around us that are demanding our attention and our time and our energy. And so, you have to sell people on ignoring all of that for a moment and paying attention to what you have to say. If you’re not great at selling, come to The Lab coach access because that is what I’m teaching you is all of the skills of not selling in a creepy, manipulative, pushy way, but just showing them that you have something valuable that they want.

Number three reason you may not have enough clients. Maybe because you are not being consistent. You might be doing some of the things necessary in your business in order to find and serve people and sell to people, but you’ve got to do it consistently. You’ve got to do it over and over and over again. Even when you think you’ve already talked about it and you think people are sick of hearing about it, you have to keep doing it. You have to keep, and by doing it, it can be all kinds of things depending on what strategy you choose.

But I’ll just take my podcast as an example. I consistently publish a podcast every week. In all honesty, it is 10:18 on a Friday night when I’m recording this episode because I was in there watching the Olympics in my house, watching the Olympics with my family and sort of getting tired. And I realized, I forgot to record my podcast episode and it’s got to be into my producer by today to have it ready to go for you by next Friday.

So, I’m sitting in the back office behind my house right now at 10:18 on a Friday night recording a podcast because consistency matters. Because some of you wait for my episode to go live and you listen to it and I’m so thrilled that you do, and I’m thrilled that you get value out of. And some of you will become clients of mine at some point or are already clients of mine or have been clients of mine and I want to keep taking care of you. So, you’ve got to do these things consistently, my friend, not just sporadically.

Now, there’s a difference between consistency and perfection. I’m not talking about doing it perfectly every time. I’m not even consistent at all the things I do. I also post on Instagram. I don’t do that super consistently. There are other things I don’t do perfectly or as consistently as I do this podcast, but this is consistent. The email that I send out every Tuesday called Try This at Home, consistent, not perfect. We’ve missed a few here and there, but consistent. So consistently executing the things that work, you’ve got to do that to have a full coaching practice in the end.

The fourth reason you may not be getting clients is because you’re not managing your mind. This is huge. If you’re going to try to grow a business, especially a business that you are the face of, a personal brand business and then you are the one who delivers the product or service that people are paying for afterwards, which is what a coaching business is. You’ve got to manage your mind because the human brain doesn’t really like a lot of things about this scenario.

It doesn’t like that you’ve got to put yourself out there to be subject to the judgment of others. It doesn’t like that somebody may not like what you have to say. It doesn’t like that there are other people doing similar things for you to compare yourself to. It doesn’t like so many things about this. And we are all different in terms of the things we like or don’t like about it but I’ll tell you my brain doesn’t like that I have to figure out technology.

My brain doesn’t like that a part of this is trial and error and it’s hard to know what’s going to land for people and resonate for people. And even when I do figure that out, it only lands and resonates for a little while and then it stops landing and I have to figure out then the next thing. So, there’s so many things about this that my brain doesn’t like. But you know what I do is, I manage my brain.

What that means is, I don’t just listen to my primitive brain, my instant gratification brain that just wants to go to the beach and not work and thinks I don’t know what to do and that I don’t have good ideas and that this is too hard etc. That part of my brain is still there. I just manage it. I’m the boss of it. The manager’s the boss.

The manager says, “Hey, thanks for showing up today, everybody. I’ll tell you what we need to really focus on today. I know that there’s a lot of nerves. I know that people are really jittery right now, but I promise you this is all going to be okay, that we’re on the right track. And I need everyone to focus and try to set your fears aside. We’re going to go forward anyway.” That’s what I can envision a manager saying in a team meeting. That’s what I say to my brain when it’s time to get to work. Alright, you’ve got to manage your mind. Again, I can help you with that if you want help, but it’s really important.

Number five, you may not be continuing to develop yourself. I know I can be guilty of this at times where I realize you know what? I have gotten really good at certain things when it comes to growing my business and running my business but there’s always a next level where there are new things to be learned. And if I don’t keep developing myself then I can’t get to that next level, I just can’t. I have to keep learning. I have to keep pushing myself outside of my comfort zone. I have to keep trying things that I’ve never done before.

I have to keep meeting people and trying to connect with people maybe who can help me with next steps. But if you don’t continue to develop yourself, it may be difficult to get your coaching practice where you want it to be. We are coaches, we believe in development. I think this one’s kind of a given.

Number six, maybe that you don’t have a compelling offer. What I mean by that is not that you don’t have something valuable and amazing to offer the world. But you haven’t put it together and packaged it in such a way that people want it. You haven’t been able to describe it in such a way that the right people go, “Oh, my gosh, that’s exactly what I need. I wish I would have found this sooner.” Or the people who aren’t the right fit would say, “Whoa, that’s my sister or that’s my brother-in-law. I need to forward this to them.”

If you have a compelling offer it’s much easier, the marketing and sales becomes much easier. Do people line up for iPhones anymore? I don’t know, but they used to. But whatever is the latest technology, those people who want that, will get in line for it. We’ll get in line for Taylor Swift tickets. We’ll get in line for things that we really want even if they cost a lot of money because they’re compelling. So, if you don’t have a compelling offer, you’ve got to figure that out. It will make it so much easier to just get clients.

Little side note, people don’t want coaching. Do not sell coaching, this many hours of coaching. Nobody wants that. Coaching is your tool. It’s like a hammer, people don’t go door to door and say, “I have a hammer. Do you have anything you’d like hammered? This is how much I charge to hammer things.” No, nobody wants that. What you do is you take that hammer and decide what you’re going to do with it. Maybe you’re going to build furniture. Then you can get online and say, “I sell amazing furniture. Who would like furniture in this style?”

It’s for this type of person that wants to have something at this price point. That’s what you do with your hammer. You build the furniture. So, what you do with coaching is you help people transform in some way. You help them solve a problem or achieve a goal, a certain kind of person with a certain problem or a certain goal. And again, if you’re not sure about that, come to Nail your Niche, I’m going to help you figure that part out.

Number seven, maybe one of the reasons that you don’t have enough clients is because you haven’t tried enough things that didn’t work. I hate to tell you this again. I know I’m not the first one to tell you this, but you will have to try things that don’t work before you’ll figure out the thing that works. A lot of coaches I talk to want to sit at home without getting online or doing anything out in the world, putting anything out and figure out with a notepad and a piece of paper and a pen, what is going to work.

They want to intellectualize their way to what’s going to work or have a conversation and talk it through with somebody that they trust, maybe another expert, maybe a friend, and figure out what’s going to work. And if you can do that, alright, do it, I guess. I’m in if that works for you. I just have rarely seen that work for anyone. I’ve seen what works a lot better is that you take a guess and you go try it, and if it doesn’t work, you take another guess and you try that. And if that doesn’t work, you take another guess and you try that.

And that is true for everybody, my friends, there’s not this level of expertise at which now you no longer have to take guesses, you just know what works. It’s a constant game of trial and error and guessing and trying again. That’s what it is. So, if you haven’t tried enough strategies that didn’t work, you just may not be at the part yet where you’re going to figure out what works.

Number eight, possible reason that you don’t have enough clients is that you don’t have a way to get in touch with new people, to find new people. What I mean by that is, people who have never heard of you before, who have no idea that you offer the solution or transformation that you offer, who want or need that solution. You might have a pool of people who have heard of you. Great. And that’s a good thing to have too. But we need to constantly be finding new people who have never heard of you.

Sometimes we call this traffic. In certain marketing circles, they call it generating traffic or generating leads. What that means is just people who are the right fit for your program. We don’t just want anybody’s email address or contact information. We don’t just want to bug people. That’s not what we’re doing here as marketers. We want to find the people who want the kind of help that we offer. And then we want to help them for free, and then invite them to come and get more help.

If you don’t have a way to find new people, this for many people looks like running ads on social media or playing the algorithm game on social media. Most people use social media for this because it’s the least expensive, least risky, and it’s highly effective. That doesn’t have to be the way and by social media it could be LinkedIn, could be Pinterest, could be all kinds of things, but that tends to be the most common way that people achieve success.

If you’re not doing that and trying to find new people and then get at least an email address so that you can keep offering them help and support, you’re likely not going to have a full coaching practice, at least not ongoing.

And the number nine reason, the last reason I have for you that you may not have a full coaching practice is that you are not investing enough time or money or effort. This sort of goes back to number one, that you’re actually just not showing up and working. But this one I want you to think of a little differently in terms of, you’ve got to invest in the business.

The business needs, in order to do all these other things, we’re talking about, the business needs either a significant amount of time. So maybe it just hasn’t been long enough yet and you need to just keep going with what you’re doing or it needs money and significant effort or all three of these things ideally to get to where you’re trying to go.

So, listen, to sum it all up here, we never have a you problem. There’s nothing wrong with you. I don’t care how weird you are, how inexperienced you are, how awkward you are. There’s somebody out there who wants a coach that is just like you. They’re going to be most comfortable with you. What we have is either a marketing problem, a sales problem, or an offer problem.

And the reason we have one or two or all three of those problems has to do with what’s happening in your head, your ability to coach yourself and keep your head straight, which translates to what happens with your hands, what you do on the outside, what you execute. What’s happening internally is creating what’s happening externally. And that is the only reason you have a marketing problem or a sales problem or an offer problem or all three, that’s it. It’s actually really simple because we can solve for those things.

We can get your head straight and you can go take some action and you could take action without even getting your head straight. I would rather you take action than not take action, but ideally we want to do both. We want to execute on externally and we want to clean up what’s happening internally so that we can solve for the marketing problem, the sales problem or the offer problem. That is the only reason why you don’t have a one to three million dollar coaching practice if you don’t.

If you want help with this, come to Nail your Niche, jodymoore.com/niche N-I-C-H-E. I would love to help you with it. Otherwise, thank you so much for joining me today. Like I said, I would love it if you would share this episode if you found it valuable and pass it along to any of your friends who you think could benefit as well. Thanks for joining me today. Have a beautiful rest of your week.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 473. Why You Don’t Have Clients to Coach appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Do you ever fall off the wagon with your health goals, get distracted from working on your business, or spend money recklessly despite your best budgeting intentions? What if, instead of beating yourself up afterwards, you actually intentionally planned your “bad” behaviors?

In this eye-opening episode, I share a powerful tool that has been a game-changer for me and many of my clients. You’ll learn why scheduling time for your vices can actually help you achieve your goals faster and feel better along the way. It may sound counterintuitive, but hear me out!

Tune in to discover how to use this technique of planning for “bad” behaviors, and how it minimizes guilt, strengthens your relationship with yourself, and helps you make sustainable progress on your biggest goals. You’ll be surprised at how much more enjoyable and effective behavior change can be with this simple mindset shift.

If your kids struggle with chronic anxiety or nerves about going back to school and you’re wondering how you can best support them, you’re in luck! How to Help Your Anxious Kid is my brand-new free workshop happening August 9th 2024, where you’ll learn tools and strategies applicable to children at any age, and you can click here to register.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why feeling guilty after engaging in “bad” behaviors is harmful to your relationship with yourself. * How to use your prefrontal cortex to make wise decisions in advance about indulgences. * The fascinating way our brains respond differently when we satisfy cravings spontaneously vs. intentionally. * How planning for “bad” behavior can help you identify the deeper desires behind your urges. * Creative ideas for scheduling intentional breaks and rewards into your routine. * Why your vices are often less appealing when you give yourself full permission to enjoy them. * How to apply this technique to any behavior you want to change, from overeating to overspending to overworking.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!

Do you ever fall off the wagon with your health goals? Do you tell yourself that you’re going to work on your business but then you get distracted with other things instead? How about your budget? Do you follow it 100% or do you occasionally or often spend money more recklessly? What would happen if you started planning to do such things intentionally? Sound crazy? Then today’s episode is just for you and it might just surprise you how much faster you’ll achieve your goals if you give it a try. This is episode 472, Planning for Bad Behavior. Let’s go.

This is Better Than Happy. I’m your coach, Jody Moore. And on this podcast, my objective, just so we’re clear, is to change what you’ve been taught and have likely believed about yourself up until now. Here’s what I believe about you. I believe that what you think is real is mostly imagined And what you imagine is actually creating what’s real. I believe that in the ways you desire to achieve, you 100% have the capacity to succeed.

Hey there, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you for joining me. I’m so excited to teach you this simple but kind of a game changer of a tool today. I don’t think I’ve ever talked about it here on the podcast before, but it’s one I’ve used a lot in my own life and helped a lot of people to implement as well.

Before we get into it, make sure you’re registered for the How to Help Your Anxious Kid webinar. School is about to start, whether you’ve got young kids or kids going off to college or missions or whatever stage your kids are in, kids get a lot of anxiety at this time of year thinking about change and new things and unknowns and maybe going back to some things they do know that they don’t love.

So that’s why here at Jody Moore Coaching, we want to put some tools out there to help you to help your kids. Unfortunately, I see a lot of parents who have best of intentions doing the exact opposite thing of what I recommend that actually a lot of the things that people are doing, I think are making it worse and we want to make sure that we’re not doing that. Of course, I know you’re not doing that intentionally, but I want to equip you with the three biggest mistakes I see parents make that I think make it worse and then I’m going to give you some tools that you can utilize instead that are very practical, very doable.

I do this with my own children and loved ones and literally thousands of other people have used these to guide their children. So go to jodymoore.com/anxiouskid to register. I want to encourage you to mark your calendar off and come live because I’ve got some kind of awesome things to give you, but you have to be there live to get them. And worst case scenario, if you can’t come live, there is going to be a replay, but you’ve got to register to get it. So jodymoore.com/anxiouskid. If you’re like me and you’ve forgotten how to spell, thanks to technology, it’s A-N-X-I-O-U-S is how you spell anxious, jodymoore.com/anxiouskid. I’ll see you there.

All right, so today we’re going to talk about planning for bad behavior. What do you think I’m talking about? Well, I gave you an intro, so you kind of have some idea what we’re going to be talking about. But you might think by just looking at the title, and if you’ve listened to me for very long, you might’ve thought I was going to teach you how to plan for knowing other people are sometimes going to behave in ways we don’t prefer, that are not ideal. But that’s not what I’m talking about today. I’m talking about planning for yourself to misbehave.

Now, the reason I put “bad” in air quotes, which you can’t really see, because you’re just listening to me, but I’m doing air quotes right now, planning for bad behavior, okay? The reason I put it in air quotes is because bad may not be the best word to describe it. I’m not going to encourage you to plan to lie, or cheat, or steal, or hurt somebody, or be dishonest, or anything that you might determine is morally wrong. But I am going to encourage you to plan for some behavior that is not ideal, that is even the opposite behavior of what you know you need to implement in order to achieve a goal or change some kind of a habit.

For example, eating junk food when you’re trying to eat healthier. Sleeping in when you’re trying to get yourself to get up early and do whatever it is you want to be doing in the morning. “Wasting time,” again, more air quotes today, wasting time when you’ve got a whole list of things that need to get done. Not working on your business when your business needs a lot of help and your to-do list from your business is very long. This is what I mean by bad behavior. Planning for it, like scheduling time in your calendar to do it.

Now, why would I tell you to do that? Why in the world would I tell you to do that? Well, first of all, any area of your life where you’re not indulging in such behaviors, you don’t need to do this for. If you’re like, “Hey, I used to not be able to get up and exercise, but I’ve been doing it for years. Now I get up and exercise” – I don’t know how many days a week you want to do that, let’s say four days a week. I told myself I wanted to and it’s a habit now that I do and I almost never miss or if I do it’s like every now and again and then I get right back on track, then you don’t need to do this in that area of your life, okay?

I’m talking about the areas of your life where you do fall into this again ‘bad’ behavior. The areas of your life where you’re really trying to make a change or to achieve something and you keep falling back into old ways. What I want you to do is pause what you’re doing right now, pause your whole plan, reassess your plan, and I want you to include in your plan this kind of indulgent behavior.

You know why? I’ll tell you. Right now, when you do it, if you’re like most people you feel bad after, right? You feel guilty because it wasn’t what you said you were going to do and I do think that that is actually pretty harmful. I think it’s toxic to your relationship with yourself. I hesitate to use the word toxic. It’s so powerful. But I do think it’s harmful to your relationship with yourself, okay? It shows you that you can’t count on you. It reinforces the idea that you don’t follow through on what you said you’re going to do, and then you feel bad after. And when we feel bad after – so think overeating, overspending, wasting time. When we feel bad after, do you know what we want to do? More ‘bad’ behavior, right?

If I feel guilty because I didn’t work on my business, then what sounds really helpful in that moment is a piece of chocolate. So maybe I switch topics in terms of the bad behavior, but I don’t have a lot of energy or motivation or drive to get back on track with my best self when I feel bad. So if we just plan for it, then we don’t need to feel bad because we told ourselves we were going to do it. The only reason you feel bad is because you think, “Oh shoot, I didn’t want to be doing that. I shouldn’t be doing that. And I did it anyway.” That’s the reason you feel bad, okay? It’s because of that story.

So if you can change the story in your head, great, I’m in. But this is just another tool to try out, to plan for it. To plan for, on this day of the week, on Saturdays or whatever it is, I’m going to eat whatever I want. Or instead of trying to get up four days a week, I’m going to try to get up two days a week and I’m going to sleep in the other days. Or I’m going to try to get up four days but one of those four days I’m going to ignore my alarm and just sleep in and not get up.

Notice we’re still making the decision in advance. Still deciding ahead of time. So we’re using a much more developed and wiser part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex that is necessary to make decisions in advance to decide it. That part of your brain is the part we want driving the car as much of the time as possible. We want that part of our brain making decisions because that part of our brain is the human part of the brain. This is the part of the brain that my dogs don’t have.

My dogs cannot plan, “Hey, you know what? Maybe I should go to sleep a little earlier because I’ve been tired lately and I’d like to have more energy tomorrow. They don’t think that way. They’re just in the moment, spontaneous about what they want. So we want this part of our brain driving because it’s more intelligent, therefore it will create a better life. But it also considers a lot more factors.

Whereas the other part of the brain, the instant gratification monkey part of the brain just wants to do what is pleasurable and fun and easy right now and avoid anything painful or challenging or hard right now. That part of the brain cares about right now. That’s the part that my dogs do have.

So if I plan in advance for it, then I stay driving with the prefrontal cortex. That’s number one. Number two, I give myself a little bit of a break from trying to make the changes or do the work that’s challenging to do. It’s okay to have breaks. It’s okay to let the instant gratification monkey have his way some of the time or her way some of the time. That part of you matters too.

I like to think about my three parts of me and that it’s my job to maintain a healthy relationship with all three parts of me. There’s my past self, my present self, and my future self. And just like I want to hook up my future self by choosing how I’m going to spend my time, what I’m going to do with my money, what am I going to eat, all that kind of that stuff takes care of my future self if I do it right, I also want to take care of my present self though.

I don’t want to give her huge expectations that she can’t really meet without an endless amount of suffering because she’s not that person yet. I want to push her, I want to encourage her to try and be uncomfortable to a certain extent, but sometimes I want to ease up on her and maintain a healthy relationship.

So that’s the second thing. It kind of gives you a break from this new or different or more challenging pattern in whatever area you’re applying this to. The next thing I love that it does is it creates a really fascinating effect if you really pay attention. And that is the thing that you thought you wanted to do so badly, that you have this impulse or craving or urge to do, whether it be spend a bunch of money, eat a bunch of food, waste time, watch Netflix, whatever it is, that thing is a lot less appealing when you don’t just come up with the idea on the spot and then answer that urge or craving.

Now, this is both interesting and cool and kind of disappointing, if I’m telling the truth. So I first experienced this with food years ago when I decided I’ve got to change some of my eating habits here. I can’t keep eating this way and feel good and live the life I want to live. So I started cutting out some of the junk food, some of the indulgent treats and things, and I decided, instead of just eating dessert anytime I wanted, what if I planned in advance?

Some of you have probably tried a strategy like this with food, right? What if I plan in advance that I’m going to eat a dessert five nights from now, and I plan what it is and when I’m going to eat it? And then instead of being like, “Hmm, you know what sounds good right now? A Sidecar donut.” That always sounds good to me, by the way. If you live in Southern California, you know what I’m talking about. Sidecar donuts.

Instead of going, “Ooh, that sounds good. Do I have time to go get one? Should I?” And having all that debate, and then the craving grows, the urge grows, especially if you resist it and you’re like, “No, no, no, not eating donuts, remember?” Then you want it even more, right? If you finally answer that urge or craving, it tastes amazing. At least the first couple bites. And then the guilt starts to set in and the loathing and the discomfort, right?

If you decide on Friday, and let’s say it’s Wednesday, right? You decided at least a couple days, a day or two in advance, I’m going to eat that donut. Then Friday comes along and it’s time to get your donut, you may not have the craving or urge right then. And maybe you still want it, maybe in your mind it still sounds good. And so I genuinely want you to still get it and eat it. I just want you to notice how much less amazing it is.

Because whether it be food or overspending money or watching Netflix, a time issue, whatever category we’re talking about here, all the things that we think are so amazing or enjoyable or fun or whatever are not that great, not as great as our brains believe when we’re not also satisfying an urge or craving or like instant gratification, impulsive desire.

So if I say to myself, “I’m going to go to Target today with $50 and I’m going to buy anything I want to buy.” Then you’ll go to Target and there’s a good chance there will be nothing you want to buy. Have you ever had this happen like with a gift card, right? Somebody gives you a gift card to your favorite store. And you’re like, “I don’t see anything in this store I want right now. There’s just such a problem.” And it’s because you didn’t just have an impulsive decision.

You weren’t at Target walking around going, “Oh, that’s cute, I really want that,” and suddenly have an impulse to buy something. Or you weren’t sitting around feeling bored or stressed or upset with your life, and so you got online and decided to shop and see what you could find that you liked, and answering that desire for dopamine. You just made a decision ahead of time to indulge in something you don’t even need, maybe, but just want. And answering that when you made the decision ahead of time is not nearly as satisfying.

You see why I’m saying this is both good news and interesting and disappointing? What I love about it though is it teaches the brain, okay, what I think I really want is this food or to lounge around and not work on my business and watch TV instead or to spend money on these cute things, to buy whatever I want. That’s what I think I want. But what I actually really want, what’s at the root of all that is a dopamine hit. I’m looking for joy. I’m looking for happiness. I’m looking for pleasure. Maybe I’m looking for relief. Maybe I want a break from some other negative emotion or some other stressful part of my life. Maybe I’m trying to get relief of some sort. Maybe I’m looking for change. Maybe I need more variety in my life. Maybe I’m looking for rest, for peace. There’s always something that we’re looking for that is available in many different forms.

So yes, buying the thing gives us the temporary hit of dopamine or eating the food or whatever gives us the temporary hit of dopamine or the relief or whatever. But it’s short-lived, first of all, and second of all, it doesn’t get to the root problem of whatever’s going on. And there are many ways to satisfy that, even if we don’t get to the root problem. Even if we just decide, hey, I need more variety in my life, or I need more joy and more happiness in my life, and I don’t know how to create that. But if I’m really working on, let’s say, a health goal, then instead of getting it from food, I could ask myself, what are other ways I could get some joy or some happiness? How else can I give myself something fun and pleasurable and rewarding that doesn’t create this problem I’m trying to solve of food, right?

Now, again, like I said before, I still want you to give yourself the food. That’s what we’re doing in the schedule. We’re building in, on this day, I’m going to eat whatever I want, or at this meal, I’m going to order whatever I want, or on this day, I’m going to eat this specific thing. You can approach it in a lot of different ways. My point is that when you do that with the prefrontal, you will gain the awareness necessary to then start asking these questions. Why is it that I think I always want that thing? What is really missing in my life or for myself? Because you won’t get the same reward loop happening in the brain.

Okay, here’s what I mean. Let’s say I have a craving for, let’s just go back to Sidecar donuts because I don’t know, right now I’m not having a craving, but I feel like I do a lot. Okay, so let’s have a craving for that. And I go get a donut and I eat it and it’s amazing. And then what happens is I just rewarded the ask, my brain sort of asks for it, right? It asks for a donut because it wants the sugar and it wants the dopamine, it wants the pleasure and the joy. And then I give it to it and it logs that away as that was great, that worked really well. I asked for this thing, she answered it, we got the reward we were seeking, we should do that again. And that’s why a day or so later, or maybe even later the same day, I’ll have another craving for a donut.

We don’t want to keep rewarding that. What we want to do is, again, decide in advance, I’m going to go have a donut on Saturday. And then we’re not rewarding that same loop, reinforcing that same loop, we’re just having a donut, and it’s going to be disappointing because it’s still going to be good, but not as good as if you were rewarding the craving urge. Are you with me? Feel a little bit like I’m talking in circles. Hopefully you’re following me.

So it can look like a lot of things. It can look like on Saturday, I’m going to eat whatever I feel like eating, but really pay attention to what you feel like eating. It can look like, hey, this money gets set aside for me to spend on anything that I want to. This amount of time in my calendar is the time when I do anything I feel like doing in the moment, or it’s the time when I watch Netflix, or like I said, you can get specific with it. You can plan specifically what you’re going to do, but I like to sometimes even just give myself permission to like, the instant gratification monkey’s going to decide then what we want to do.

And again, fascinating to me how the instant gratification monkey, if I set aside time for her to be in charge, she’s like, “I don’t know, whatever you want.” She doesn’t have like strong urges or cravings. She’s not like, we have to watch Netflix right now or we have to eat this thing. She’s often really reasonable. And I don’t know, if you want to work out, we could do that. Or if you wanted to get some work done, we can get some work done. Like, she actually is okay with doing all these things. At times, I should say, not always, but at times. Because it’s just when that craving or urge pops up and we answer it that we reinforce the dopamine loop in the brain, okay?

So I want you to plan time for this kind of ‘bad’ behavior with whatever goals you’re working towards. Sometimes I’ll plan a whole week or more of time when I’m not going to work on my business other than maybe do the bare minimum, not going to do anything else in my business, I’m just going to relax and be with my family and do whatever sounds fun. And I have to keep reminding myself during a week like that, it’s okay, because part of me is like, are you sure this is okay? I mean, there’s so many things that we should be getting done right now, and it feels like we shouldn’t just be going to the beach every day. I’m like, no, we decided in advance that’s what we were going to do this week, right?

Or plan time to eat something a little bit more indulgent, a little bit less healthy. Plan, again, to spend some money frivolously, recklessly. It could be just a little bit of money, it could be a lot of money. It’s all dependent on your budget. Remember, we’re making this decision with the prefrontal, with the wise owl part of the brain that makes wise decisions. So I’m not talking about like, go into credit card debt for this. I’m just saying, plan what’s reasonable. Be like, and here’s $100, so you can spend on whatever you want or $20 or $1,000, I don’t know, what is your budget? But plan if, again, if you notice that you tend to overspend and you don’t stick to your budget, then you might need to plan for some, ‘bad’ behavior.

I’m telling you, this is a game changer. It minimizes the guilt. It strengthens your relationship with yourself because you’re no longer just telling yourself you’re going to do one thing and then doing something else. It gives you a break and you need breaks sometimes when you’re trying to change habits or behaviors.

And I don’t know, I don’t work with people that are having, or I should say, I don’t work on this part of their lives. I have clients who have serious addictions or things, but a lot of times if you’re dealing with some kind of a serious addiction, you need a therapist in addition. But I still believe it would be useful.

Let’s say you have a habit of looking at pornography, whether you call it an addiction or a habit, and you’re trying to stop that. I would still plan a time to look at pornography, if that’s a challenging thing for you to stop doing. And again, I know it sounds like, why would I plan that? Well, because if you’re doing it anyway, and you’re just feeling bad afterwards, and you’re reinforcing the cycle of craving, urge, answer the urge, you’re just reinforcing the problem. So I would plan for it, I would advise you to plan for it, and notice the difference, and notice how it’s not even that enjoyable.

All right, give it a try, my friends, and then come and tell me how it goes. I want to hear about it, all right? You can find me on Instagram and my DMs, or you can, if you’re in The Lab, you have access to us through the Ask a Coach page. And by the way, when you guys write in to ask a coach and have a comment or whatever, they always forward it to me. Or you can call into our hotline, 877-HI-JODY-M. I’d love to hear from you. I want to hear how things are going in your life as you implement these tools, all right?

Thanks for joining me today, everyone. Have an amazing rest of your week and I’ll see you next week, bye-bye.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 472. Planning for “Bad” Behavior appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Would you describe yourself as someone who feels the feelings of the people around you or maybe as an empath?

I’m so excited to dive into today’s episode all about what it means to be an empath and how to manage the challenges that come with it. Being highly attuned to the emotions of others can be a beautiful gift, but it can also leave us feeling drained and at the mercy of other people’s feelings.

In this episode, I share some practical strategies to help you take back control of your emotional state. You’ll learn how to process feelings in a healthy way, set boundaries to protect your energy, and leverage your empathic superpowers as a strength. If you’ve ever struggled with absorbing the emotions of those around you, this episode will give you the tools to navigate those situations with more intention.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why empathy is a useful skill but can become a weakness when overused. * How to recognize that you are feeling your own emotions, not other people’s, even if they feel similar. * The importance of relaxing into and processing your feelings without resistance. * How to consciously choose not to mirror the emotional state of others when needed. * Why telling the truth and setting boundaries is crucial for empaths to manage their energy. * The top 3 practical strategies to implement right away to take back control of your feelings. * How being a highly empathic person makes you uniquely able to connect with and serve others.

Mentioned on the Show:

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If you would describe yourself as someone who feels the feelings of other people around you or an empath, you might notice that this can be exhausting and overwhelming and leave you feeling at the effect of how the people around you are feeling. This is a powerless way to feel. So, while I believe that being an empath or a highly intuitive and emotional person can be a huge strength, it can also create problems, especially for you if you are this person.

Today I’m going to give you some practical strategies you can implement right away to help you take back control of your feelings and keep your energy up without losing the benefits of this part of your spirit. Welcome to Better Than Happy episode 471, Navigating the World as an Empath.

Welcome to Better Than Happy, I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today. Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to talk to you today. I am just coming off of teaching a three day workshop to some fellow coaches. We do this workshop called Get 12 Clients in 12 Weeks and it was so amazing. I am still reeling from just the energy and excitement that was in that room and all the things that we learned and discovered and the work that everybody there did, and the progress.

I love seeing that group at the beginning of the three days and at the end and how different they are in terms of the direction that they are going in their business and the way they feel about their ability to do it. And I just can’t wait to go see what they all do next. So, to all my friends who were there, you know who you are, I’m thinking of you and gosh, what a fun three days that was.

Alright, so I got a question that came in through the podcast hotline. We have a bunch of questions that I need to get to, but I’m trying to pull what I think are the most relevant ones to the most people. If you have a question, you can always call it in to 888 hi Jody M and leave me your question. But today I want to play a question that somebody sent in that I think will be really useful.

Before I play it and we get into the content I want to mention that since school is right around the corner. And back to school tends to be a time when a lot of our kiddos’ anxiety starts to flare up again. I’m going to be doing a free webinar that you’re invited to that’s called How to Help Your Anxious Kid and I’m going to give you some really concrete tools.

Most importantly, there are three mistakes that most people make. With the best of intentions, nobody’s doing these things intentionally wrong, they actually think these things are helping. And I’ve noticed that these things create more problems. So, make sure you sign up at jodymoore.com/anxiouskid to come and learn about how to help your anxious kid, totally free. We will send you the replay if you can’t come live, but try to come live because that is how we make the most progress when I can interact with you, really answer your specific questions.

It’s a great opportunity for you to come and see what it’s like to work a little bit more intimately with me. And by intimately I mean not just on a podcast where it’s a one way conversation. So jodymoore.com/anxiouskid. I do not know that I will ever teach this again, at least not for a long time if I do. So, just go sign up for it and don’t miss it.

Okay, so let’s listen to this caller’s question and then we will dive into how I would answer it. Here we go.

Hey, Jody, I have a question for you. I’m pretty young. I’m just in my early 20s, but I’ve started noticing a pattern in my emotions that I wanted some advice on. I’m sure I’m not the only one that this happens to you, but I’ve noticed that I tend to absorb the emotions of other people and it affects how I perceive other people and perceive the world.

For example, if I have a family member who complains about a sibling to me. Sometimes I absorb their negative feelings about that sibling, and I start thinking negative thoughts about the sibling, even though before that call with that family member, I didn’t feel those feelings at all. And this has caused me to sometimes do things that I regret or say things I regret. And a few days later I realized I didn’t actually feel that way, that was my family member feeling that way and I kind of bled off of that.

So, my question is, how can I identify when feelings aren’t my own? And how do I deal with them in a way that is true to me? Yeah. Thank you.

Okay, what a great question. Thanks so much to the young lady who called in and asked this question. I agree with her that a lot of people can relate to this and feel this way about their interactions with others. So, we’re talking about the word empathy here today. And empathy basically is just the ability to truly understand other people’s feelings and it’s a really useful thing to be able to do, to be empathetic. It’s a useful trait or skill we might say. In fact, it’s necessary, I think, to have true intimacy in your relationships, in other words, true connections.

Sometimes we have relationships that aren’t very deeply connected and that’s okay as well. But we all have a need for at least a couple of relationships, one or two in our lives at any given time that are more intimate, meaning we feel seen and heard and validated. And that requires that somebody can really understand our feelings. So, it’s useful to the person doing the understanding of the feelings, it makes them feel closer to that person, and it’s useful for the other person as well, they tend to prefer it.

So, empathy is a beautiful thing. Now, there are different levels of skill or ability or even sort of natural tendencies in this area. Some people are highly attuned to the emotions of others just naturally, without even intending to be, whereas for other people it’s much harder to tune into the emotions of others and they might have to focus on it more intentionally, because it just doesn’t come as naturally to them. And sometimes people who we would say are maybe highly attuned call themselves empaths.

So, the term empath just means someone that’s very highly attuned. It is not an official psychology term or diagnosis, but it is a term that people commonly use. It can be helpful sometimes and this is true, I believe with any diagnosis or any official psychology term or unofficial language that we use to label our behaviors or our tendencies or our traits. Can be really useful to help us understand what’s going on and that we’re not the only one who operates this way. And then understand how to manage ourselves to get what we really want out of our interactions with others.

But they can also become limiting beliefs, if we just believe that’s just the way we are. And therefore, we have certain problems or challenges that we can’t do anything about. So, I want to be careful about, well, specifically, we’re talking about the term empath. I don’t want you to think that I’m saying to the young woman that asked this question or anybody that can relate, “You’re an empath.” What I’m saying is, if it helps you to identify yourself as an empath, great.

It sounds like at times at least, you have some of the tendencies or patterns or behaviors of an empath, and that is both a beautiful thing and can be a challenge. So, one of the things I believe is that our strengths, overused, can become our weaknesses. In fact, I believe that pretty much all of our weaknesses are just our strengths overused or not managed correctly.

So, for example, let’s say I’m a planner, and maybe that can be a huge strength to me. Planning can be very useful and help me live a certain kind of life. But if I overuse that strength then I may not be able to be flexible. I may not be able to navigate myself or handle changes or unexpected things or impulsive, spontaneous things that weren’t planned, can become a challenge if I overuse that planning strength. So, I believe that, like I said, empathy’s a very useful skill, it’s necessary and it’s a strength, but overused it can become a challenge.

How is it a challenge? Well, that’s what this young lady just described to us. Often people who are empaths, I’m just going to say by way of shortcut here, might find themselves very exhausted, very drained, they may feel very sensitive overall. It can be overwhelming feeling this way. On the other hand, they’re also often good listeners and like I said, good at intimacy and good at honesty, although many of them struggle with people who they think aren’t being as honest.

Their ability to read people and get down to the real nitty gritty of things like emotions can cause them to struggle sometimes with people who aren’t as comfortable going to a more intimate, vulnerable space. So how do we navigate this? I guess the reason I’m starting out with this is a strength and there are many pros to it, overused, it becomes a weakness is because I don’t want you to think, oh, no, this is a challenge, this is a bummer, this is a difficult thing I have to deal with, it’s not.

It’s a beautiful thing and it can help you in so many ways, not only in your personal relationships, but even in your professional life and in the way you interact with people in general. So, I think it’s a beautiful thing. I just want to help you manage this part of yourself so that it doesn’t create exhaustion and overwhelm and all of these things that you just described. So how do we do that?

The first thing I would recommend is, you specifically said that you feel other people’s feelings. And that sometimes you, I love the example you gave of, I’m talking to a family member. They talk about a sibling and they’re feeling negative about that sibling. Next thing you know, I’m feeling negative about the sibling who I wasn’t feeling that way about to begin with. So, what you’re telling me is that that person’s negative feeling made you feel the same negative feelings.

So, what I recommend is let’s just get clear about what creates feelings. This is the way I like to think about it. You are not feeling your sibling’s feelings, you’re feeling your own feelings, even though you’re feeling maybe similar feelings to what they were feeling. So maybe they’re angry or frustrated with your sister and they tell you a story, and now you’re angry or frustrated with your sister. You’re still feeling your own anger and frustration, and your sibling is feeling theirs.

Feelings are literally chemicals and hormones that get released in the body. Different chemicals like adrenaline and cortisol and dopamine, they all have scientific names. Those things get released by our internal organs in our brains, in our bodies and then that’s what we feel. So, your sibling’s cortisol doesn’t jump out of their body into your body. You feel your own version of it.

Now, there is some debate about this. I just want to acknowledge. I’m personally a real believer in energy and unseen or unmeasurable forces and emotions can fall into that bucket. So, I do believe there is some truth to there’s things we can’t see or measure, that emotions are a part of that world. I wouldn’t deny that. But for the most part, what you’re feeling is your own emotions. Especially if you’re talking to them on the phone, you’re not in the room to be able to feel that energy.

Again, I just want to be clear that I don’t disagree that there is some of that, what I call the woo woo space that we don’t clearly understand because we can’t see it or measure it. I think there is some of that happening, but most of it is coming from your own thinking and then chemicals being released in your own body. That is where the majority of your feelings are coming from.

So, your sibling is frustrated, to make this easier, let’s just say your brother is frustrated with your sister. And your brother calls you and tells you a story about your sister and he is frustrated. Now, you’re reading that, you’re understanding that, you’re sensing that, but you are now thinking your own thoughts that are causing you to be frustrated. Brother’s frustrated because of what he’s thinking about your sister. You’re frustrated now because of what you’re thinking about your sister. It just so happens that he gave you a bunch of thoughts to think.

And when you thought the same thoughts that he’s thinking or believed the same thing he’s believing or entertained the same story, watched the same movie in your head about your sister that he’s watching in his head about your sister. Then you felt the same emotions he’s feeling about your sister, but your sister didn’t cause him to feel anything and he’s not causing you to feel anything. Are you with me?

So, if we get clear about that, then we start to gain a little bit of leverage over ourselves because we can’t control what your brother’s feeling or thinking or even what he’s going to say to you. But you can control what you’re thinking and feeling and what you’re going to say back to him. Now, I want to be clear that you might also be thinking some slightly different thoughts than your brother. So you might be thinking, I feel so bad for my brother that he’s experiencing this.

So, you have maybe some thoughts about your sister that you got from him. And now you have some thoughts about your brother that caused you to feel some empathy or some concern or maybe you have some thoughts of, oh no, I don’t want to get in the middle of this. And so now you feel conflicted, but I still want to support my brother, so you feel confused. So, you might even be experiencing more intense or a slightly different variety or flavor of emotions than your brother because you are coming from a slightly different perspective.

Another thing that we tend to do is, let’s say my friend starts telling me about something going on with her child. And I’m going to start feeling whatever emotions I feel based on what I think as she tells me. But if I sort of put myself in her place of, if that were my child, I think I would feel this way. Then I’m going to start to feel similar emotions. But again, it’s not my friend’s feelings that I’m feeling. It’s my own feelings based on my own thinking.

So, this is important to begin with because it gives you back your own control, your own authority over the majority of your emotions. There can be some other factors like I said, there’s some woo woo things we can’t even understand or measure. And there is biology at play here in terms of just your own hormones, how much you slept, things like that. But we’re going to give most of the credit because the majority of the credit does go to what you’re thinking and believing.

So now what then, what do we do? Do we need to think something different? My answer is maybe yes, but also maybe no. I want to give you three practical strategies that you can practice. So, the first thing I want you to know is that you’ve got to be very kind to yourself. Sometimes when I teach people this, then they go from thinking that their brother created their feelings to feeling really bad about the feelings they’re creating for themselves, and that is not what I want you to do.

But the first thing I want you to try out is processing and allowing feelings. So, when you get off the phone with your sibling, that was the example you gave me. Obviously, you can use this in other settings, but you get off the phone with your sibling and you notice you’re feeling frustrated or angry with your sister. What I want you to do is just take deep breaths and feel the frustration, breathe in and out. Try relaxing your shoulders and your neck and your back and whatever other muscles might be tight. Relax, breathe, and be frustrated.

Normally when we’re frustrated or angry or really any other negative emotion, we tend to tighten up and tense up. That’s the natural default reaction physically. So, if you relax into it without telling yourself, I shouldn’t feel this way because telling yourself I don’t want to feel this way, I shouldn’t feel this way, actually causes you to tense up even more. So now we’re tense on top of being tense.

Instead of that, I want you to just relax and go, “Okay, I’m just going to be frustrated now. I’m going to be angry. I’m going to be irritated or I’m going to be confused or I’m going to be sad for my friend that I just talked to.” And allow yourself to feel whatever you’re feeling, it’s totally fine. Now, I talk about this a lot, but it’s really important and it takes trying it out a time or two before you will totally understand the power of it, but feelings happen in your body, not in your brain.

So instead of running away in your head with, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe my sister did that. What was she thinking? And whatever other chatter wants to happen in your head or even I shouldn’t feel this way, I wasn’t even mad at her before I talked to my brother. I hate how I always feel other people’s feelings. All of that is brain chatter. All of that’s happening up in your head.

I want you to get down into your body, drop into your chest and into your stomach. How do you do that? How do you get into your body? Well, I literally, again, breathing helps a lot, relaxing my muscles. And I try to picture the inside of my body. I imagine it’s pretty dark in there. So, I picture it being pretty dark, but I try to picture the inside of my chest cavity or inside of my gut because that’s where most emotions tend to happen right there in the core. And I try to be in there, I picture it. I might need to close my eyes for a second.

Again, I’m taking deep breaths. I’m saying things like, “It’s okay to be frustrated. I just need to be frustrated for a minute here. I just need to be sad.” I just need to be, whatever you’re feeling. So just feel what you’re feeling. Now, the add on I want to give you is to know that it’s because of what you’re thinking, this is because of stories in my head, this is because of sentences in my head. And it’s okay that I have those stories. It’s okay that I have those sentences. There’s nothing wrong with them. I don’t need to change them. I don’t even need to know what they are.

I just need to get in my body and feel some feelings right now. Because that will prevent some of the exhaustion and overwhelm that you’ve been feeling, that comes from resisting emotions. Resisting and tightening up and trying to push away emotions is exhausting. It will wear you down and it will cause you to have to withdraw from certain social settings. It’s just a lot. You’ll feel tired. But if you relax and allow and process feelings and again, some feelings are really intense, which might cause you to cry, alright, then cry. Let it out.

You may need to excuse yourself if you’re with a group of people and maybe you need to go for a walk around the block if you’re at work. You might need a minute if possible to grab a minute to feel your feelings. But majority of the time, you don’t even need to do that. You can just relax and feel whatever you’re feeling. And remember that it’s just because of sentences in your mind, stories in your mind, movies in your mind. That’s why you’re feeling this. That’s skill number one.

Skill number two, this will be a skill that you’ll choose to use on occasion, and you’ll have to practice it. All of these require practice, but this one especially is going to be a little bit tricky until you try it out a few times and then it will be available to you from time to time when you choose it. And this skill is what I call not mirroring one another. It is our natural default tendency to mirror one another. Now, this doesn’t necessarily mean that we always agree with brother when he calls and tells us about how he’s mad at sister.

I’m not talking necessarily about agreeing. Mirroring is not the same. It just means we take on a similar feel or a similar emotional state to the people around us. That is actually human nature on default. And the reason I say default is because I mean without you consciously choosing it, most likely you will just pick up the same vibration or energy as the people around you.

So, for example if somebody is really angry with me and they start yelling at me, my natural default tendency is to either become angry back at them or at least defensive. Those are both kind of similar feelings, defensiveness and anger. One is maybe more of an offense, and one is more of a defense, but both of them feel like being at war. And they both feel kind of dangerous and intense and energized. And it’s our default if somebody comes at us to put our guard up, which makes sense and so we take on that similar energy.

Just like if somebody is super sweet and complimentary and kind, we tend to be very kind and generous and complimentary right back. Because it is our default without consciously choosing it, our brains, our bodies, our spirits will mirror the energy or feelings of the people around us. So, the good news is, that works really well most of the time. We want to just let ourselves do that. It protects us when we need protecting, it just works really well, but occasionally it doesn’t.

Occasionally, especially if I’m a more highly attuned person to the emotions of others, then it may be exhausting, and it may cause me to feel like I’m just being at the whim of people around me. So how do you not mirror? You simply become aware. You’re going to say something like, “My brother is upset, but I don’t have to be upset. He can be upset, and I don’t have to be.” And again, like I said, this is a when you want to kind of tool.

If your brother’s upset and you don’t want to be upset, maybe he’s mad at your sister, and you don’t want to be mad at your sister. Then you say to yourself over and over again in your mind, “He’s going to be mad and I’m not mad at my sister, but I’m also not mad at my brother for being mad at my sister.” That’s the real work. That’s our tendency is to get upset at the person for being upset at someone else, and then we’re doing the exact same thing. We judge people for judging other people, that’s still mirroring.

So, whether you don’t want to take on his exact story about your sister is fine, but also, if you don’t want to be mad at him for having that story, that’s going to require a little work. And it really for me is just as simple as saying that, “Okay, he’s mad, but I’m not mad that he’s mad. Or he’s shocked, but I’m not going to be shocked about his shock. And I’m also not shocked about sister.”

So, I’ll tell you what, this is, again, something that you’ll have to try out and practice, but a lot of times, people don’t know how to behave if they’re not going to mirror. Because it’s not, we don’t want to have some empathy. We don’t want to lose all empathy. We don’t want to be like, “Well, forget you. I’m not mad at sister. I don’t know what you’re talking about.” And then your brother’s not going to feel heard and validated.

So, to me, it sounds more like, gosh, I can see that you’re really upset and that’s valid. It’s totally okay for you to be upset like that. It sounds like you’re justified in being upset and I’m so sorry that you’re upset. Is there anything I can do to support you? So, you can still validate, give him some feedback, let him know he’s being heard and seen without going all in on the story, if it’s not a story you want to go all in on. So you’re going to have to practice that one. Bring it to me in The Lab, I can coach you through specific situations if you’re in The Lab if that happens regularly.

The third and final skill I want you to practice is, boundaries/telling the truth. And the reason I’m making it two parts like that is because sometimes a boundary might be necessary, but sometimes you don’t need something as strict as a boundary, you just need to tell the truth, just be honest. So, here’s the difference. Telling the truth might be, hey, I’m so sorry that you’re upset, and I want to be here for you to support you, but honestly, I’m probably not the best one to talk to.

Because I love our sister and I know you do too, but I’m probably just not going to be able to validate what you want to hear, probably not going to be able to say exactly what you want. Maybe we should find somebody who’s not in our family for you to talk to about this.

Or another way to tell the truth might be, hey, listen, I love you so much and I support you, but I can’t keep listening to your stories about this situation because it wears me out. I love you. I’m so sorry you’re struggling. It’s totally valid. I hear it, and it’s real, but I can’t be the place anymore. It’s just too exhausting for me. I feel a lot of emotions when I listen to what you’re telling me because I love you and I care about you and it’s complicated and I have lots of thoughts about it, so I can’t be the one. Let’s talk about something different.

That’s just telling the truth. And that helps a lot in you taking care of your own emotional needs and your own mental state. And it is your responsibility to take care of your own mental and emotional needs my friend. So, tell people the truth. Sometimes something more strict, like a boundary is necessary.

I’ve coached many people who have parents, now that they’re adults, their parents are struggling in their marriages and they’re telling my client about their dad and all the terrible things their dad is doing and saying and how hard it is. And that’s a tough position sometimes for my clients to be in. So sometimes they have to set a boundary, like, hey, mom, listen, I love you and I’m so sorry you’re struggling with dad. Let’s find you a coach that you can talk to about this or don’t forget about your friend Julia, you should call her.

I can’t be the one because he’s my dad, and I, frankly, don’t want to hear those stories and I’m not going to be able to support and validate you the way that I know you need and want. So please don’t call and tell me about your problems with dad anymore, if you do, here’s the boundary. If you start talking about dad, I’m going to remind you that we’re not talking about that. And if you don’t honor that, I’m going to hang up the phone. It’s not because I’m trying to hang up on you because I’m mad, it’s because I need to protect myself emotionally.

This is a boundary I need to set because I want to just keep loving you, not because I’m mad at you, not because I’m trying to punish you, just because I want to do right by our relationship. So, you may need to have boundaries/tell the truth. Start with just telling the truth and see if that does it. And if it doesn’t, you might need to have a boundary.

So, listen my friends, being highly empathic is a beautiful thing. It makes you able to read people and therefore serve people, create value for people, connect with people. It’s a beautiful thing. It makes you a beautiful person. The people I know who are highly empathic are some of my most favorite people. I love to be around them because they can be so fun and playful and creative, and they are sweet and tender, and I can just feel the goodness of their hearts.

If that is you, I would imagine that’s what you’re like to be around, but you can wear yourself out. You can scare yourself. You could become an anxious person easily. You can become someone who takes those strengths and they become weaknesses for you, and I don’t want to see that happen for you. So beautiful thing that you have, just rein it in. Just process your feelings, practice not mirroring when you can, and you want to and set boundaries or at least tell the truth.

Thanks for joining me today, everybody, have a beautiful rest of your week and I’ll see you next time.

If you like the podcast, don’t forget, I would love so much for you to share it. Please post it on your social, tell a friend about it, tag me somewhere, make a reel or a quick video. Don’t be scared by the word reel, just make a quick video, and tell me one thing you got out of today and tag me so I can reshare it. I would love to get the word out to more of the people about all the things we’re doing here at Better Than Happy. Thanks for joining me today, I’ll see you next time, bye bye.

If you find the podcast to be helpful you’re going to love The Lab. In Better Than Happy: The Lab we experiment with applying all of it in your real life. Whether you’re in the middle of a challenge and ready for some relief or you’re ready to commit to pursuing your dream goals and making them a reality, come join me in the lab at jodymoore.com/thelab. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab.

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The post 471. Navigating the World as an Empath appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We all have that innate human desire to feel good about ourselves, and confidence is like a magic key that unlocks not only our ability to feel great but also the potential to rock anything we set our sights on. We know cultivating confidence requires ongoing work, but why does it seem to come more naturally to some? And what’s the secret to achieving true confidence?

In our quest to feel better, many of us fall into the trap of self-righteousness and judgment of other people. But this, my friend, is false confidence. Bonding through negativity might feel validating in the moment, but the truth is it’s a major roadblock on your path to genuine confidence and I show you why in this episode.

Join me this week as I explore false confidence in the hopes that it illuminates what true confidence looks like. You’ll hear why the real skill of building confidence comes in moments where you’ve fallen short, how judgment creates a false sense of confidence and connection, and how you can begin taking advantage of the opportunities around you to build true confidence.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why confidence is one of the most useful emotions you can cultivate. * How judgment and self-righteousness create a sense of false confidence. * The differences between false confidence and true confidence. * How confidence makes you better at everything you want to accomplish. * The core traits of truly confident people. * My favorite way to focus on building true confidence.

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1. Why You Should Brag More

Confidence is one of the most useful emotions I can imagine for any one of us, and it’s something that requires ongoing work. And yet it seems to come easier to some people than others. I think the more we understand confidence, true confidence, and we don’t fall for what I’m calling false confidence, the easier it is to maintain and achieve.

And confidence makes you not only feel better, it makes you better at everything you want to accomplish. It helps everyone around you. So today we’re diving in and we’re going to understand false confidence so that we can understand true confidence. This is episode 470, False Confidence. Let’s go.

What’s up, everybody? Welcome to the back office. That’s where I work now, in the back office. I have a little office that’s built in the backyard of my house. It’s dreamy and beautiful, and there’s a skylight. So, I have sunshine pouring in above my head and in through the little window which I wish was a bigger window. Maybe we’ll make it bigger one day. But at any rate, so happy to be here talking to you today and just soaking in all the goodness. We’re going to talk about confidence today.

We’re going to talk about false confidence for a lot of this episode, but I’m also going to talk about true confidence. And before we dive into it, I want to talk to you about back to school time. I know, it’s kind of a bummer to have to talk about back to school time, or maybe it’s good news for you. Maybe it’s going to be a relief when your kids go back to school, I know. I feel some of both. But nevertheless, school is right around the corner.

And as our kids go back to school, whether we’re talking about young kids, teenagers or even older kids, maybe heading out to college, there tends to be some anxiety that comes up at this time of year, maybe for you, maybe for your kids. So here at Jody Moore Coaching, we want to help with that. We have some amazing tools that have been really life changing for thousands of parents that I have coached who have had kids who struggle with anything from really chronic anxiety to just nerves and fear. And it’s challenging to know how do we navigate it.

How do we do the best job we can of supporting our kids and teaching them that it’s okay to feel emotions, but at the same time providing support. And meanwhile we have all our own emotions to deal with in the midst of it all, so it’s complicated. So, we wanted to put out a free workshop that we’re going to be offering that is called How to Help Your Anxious Kid. And by kid again, think broad range of ages. I’m going to give you tools and strategies that you can use at all different ages. You just modify them based on the age of the child.

And I’m also going to talk to you about the three mistakes that I see a lot of parents make, that seem like they would help, but actually can potentially do more harm than good, so that we can avoid those mistakes. And again, this is a totally free workshop. It will be on Zoom. I will be there live teaching you, which means I can take live questions and maybe even bring some people on for some live help. I don’t know if we’ll have time for that, but I’ll definitely take questions. Anyway, I want to get you some help as you help your kids.

So, head to jodymoore.com/anxiouskid, anxious is spelled A-N-X-I-O-U-S. Jodymoore.com/anxiouskid. It’s happening on August 9th. And I would encourage you to come live for many reasons, one being that you can ask me direct questions. But two, I’m going to have some cool freebies available if you’re there live. But also, if you can’t be there live we will be sending out a replay, but you’ve got to register to get it. So again, jodymoore.com/anxiouskid.

Alright, so we’re going to talk about false confidence here. And I want to rewind and state, I’ve said this before, but I think it’s really important that we all remember that what every single one of us wants is to feel better about ourselves, to think that we’re doing okay, that we are okay, we’re doing a good job, that we’re enough. And then ideally beyond that to even think that we’re good and amazing. And not that we need to believe we’re better than anyone else. I don’t even actually think it’s useful to believe that you’re better than anyone else.

But we want to just feel complete, that we’re good, that we’re not in a deficit in some way, that we don’t have something to prove or that we don’t need to earn some kind of worthiness or love. And that is just how we’re wired as human beings is that we have this constant need to be reassured that we’re okay. Now, for some people, that is a more obvious need than for others because of, well, a lot of factors.

But if it feels like a an urgent need to you, that you’re constantly trying to fill or that it never feels filled up, then there is work that we can do to help fill it and some of that’s what I want to talk about today. But for other people, maybe it just comes more naturally to understand it or to be able to fill it or they’ve learned strategies and tools and done a lot of work to get to a place of understanding that they are okay and then it just takes ongoing maintenance.

But every single one of us has this part of us, especially I should say, if we are mentally healthy, that questions that and that wants that. Now, I remember at a pretty young age having this realization and I don’t know if you can relate to this sort of thinking about existential things at a young age or if everybody is fascinated with human behavior like I am. But I remember, I want to say I was in middle school, maybe freshman in high school or something when I remember having this thought, everybody’s just trying to feel better about themselves.

Like people buying fancy, flashy new cars, it’s because they think that they’ll feel better about themself. Maybe because it will impress people or what have you, if they’re driving a fancy car. Or they’re buying a bigger house because they want to feel better about themselves. Or they’re trying to succeed at a job or make more money or go on fancier vacations or look what they would call better in some way, do their hair, makeup, clothes, etc. to try to feel good about themselves.

And in many cases they’re trying to impress other people and make other people think that they’re good and then they give themselves permission to think that they’re good. And isn’t that fascinating that so much of what we’re doing is trying to feel better about ourselves. Now, again, I was pretty young when I had this realization. So, I don’t think I accounted for the part of us that also can be altruistic and giving and generous and not self-focused.

I think I was probably just at an age where I still was pretty much entirely self-focused and as I’ve matured I’ve realized that that work of feeling good about yourself is important work. But it’s actually kind of boring and it’s only half the job of feeling completed as a human. And then we want to feel that we’re contributing and giving and serving and helping others outside of trying to get approval for doing it. But at any rate, I do think that so much of what motivates us is this void in understanding of our human worth and our human completeness.

So, I want to begin with that just because it is a big topic and it is an interesting thing that I hope that you’ll think about as well in your own mind. What I want to talk about today with false confidence is judgment and self-righteousness. And maybe those things are similar or they overlap a lot. But I was thinking about this with regards to some of the coaching that we’ve been doing lately in The Lab. And trying to figure out why is it that it’s so hard to get out of judgment? And why is self-righteousness sort of tempting?

Why is there some kind of energy or validation that we get when we indulge in self-righteousness or judgment, what is that about? Because really, with our prefrontal cortex brains, all of us agree that we don’t want to be judgmental and we don’t want to be self-righteous. And I don’t think very many people would say that there are useful ways to operate from in most cases but yet, it’s tempting and challenging to get out of.

And what I came up with was, it creates a sense of false confidence. And I’m calling it false confidence because I purposely want to differentiate it from true confidence, which I’ll talk about in a minute. It feels powerful to have an opinion about what’s right or what’s wrong or what’s good or what’s bad or what somebody should or shouldn’t be doing or thinking or being.

There’s some kind of powerful hit of validation we get from having an opinion and believing that our way is the right way or believing that we are doing it better. In some way we are showing up the way a human being should show up. There is some sort of comfort that we get that might touch on that void we have of thinking, am I okay. I think it’s temporary. I don’t think it’s long lasting and I think it’s fragile, is why I’m calling it false confidence.

So, let’s just say you have a job and you have co-workers who have the same job. And when you go to work, you do the job one way and somebody else does it a different way. Now, you might say, “No, look at the job description and look at the expectations our boss has given us. I’m clearly doing it the right way and this other person is doing it the wrong way. They’re dropping the ball. They’re not doing it at as excellent of a level or they just have a different approach, maybe.”

And it’s tempting to then move into judgment. So, there’s a part of us that feels justified in our own worthiness when we move into judgment and it feels like confidence in the moment. The reason I say it’s fragile is because if that makes you a better person than that other human being we’re talking about, then that means you might in other circumstances be lower down on the scale of human value.

If there is such a thing as a vertical scale of human goodness, human worthiness, human lovability then me being up feels good to me. But that also means I have the potential to be down. Maybe not in this area, I mean obviously it’s possible in any area, but maybe I’m not worried about it in this area. But it means in other areas there are probably people who are better at certain things or show up better in certain ways that I would like to than me.

So, the whole premise of this vertical up and down scale is fragile and frightening, and allows you to feel good when you’re up, but a part of you knows that you also in other situations could be down. So that’s why I don’t recommend that you let your brain stay on that scale. So how do you get off of it though? If clearly the job description says to do it this way, let’s even say the person is not completing all the things they’re supposed to at your job. Let’s just simplify it.

Let’s say there’s a checklist of steps one through ten, this is how you do this job, and they only do steps one through five and then they go home early. How could we not say they’re doing it wrong, Jody? They’re clearly doing it wrong. So, my question for you is, okay, well, who is to say doing all the steps is the best way? Who’s to say that’s the smartest way, let’s just say?

Because I remember actually having a job where I was on a team, it was a sales job and I worked with a bunch of people who were really fun. And there was one guy who was really funny on my team and another guy on our team didn’t really work very hard. He didn’t sell much but he also didn’t do the behaviors necessary to make sales. So sometimes you have somebody who’s making lots of calls and doing all the follow-up and all the things that we need to do, but they’re not converting. And then there’s people who just aren’t even really trying and he was the latter.

He just didn’t make many calls. He kind of sat around. He was distracted. And yet he was still there. He didn’t get fired. It didn’t seem like there was much discipline happening. So, I’m not saying that we want to be that guy who doesn’t step up and be excellent at things. I’m just saying, he was getting paid as well, and maybe he wasn’t getting paid as much because our salaries were based a little bit on our sales numbers, but he was making enough money to take care of his lifestyle.

And yet he didn’t have to do some of the things that the rest of us had to do. And he got to relax a little more and he had a little bit less stress. So, who’s to say that it’s always necessary to be excellent? Again, don’t get me wrong, I know some of you are freaking out right now. You’re like, “Of course, we want to be excellent. Of course we want to step up.” I hear you. I’m just saying, step back from it for a minute if you find yourself in judgment and self-righteousness and question, hey, maybe that guy knows what he’s doing.

Maybe it’s, hey, I’m going to do what I need to here to get by and keep getting a paycheck, but I don’t have any desire to make more money. I’m going to do the bare minimum in this case. In some cases, it’s not wrong to do the bare minimum. You don’t have to do your best at everything, did you know this? It doesn’t make you a better human being, doesn’t make you more worthy, more valuable, more lovable to do more. It means that there’s more possible for you in your life, that you can achieve more.

Now again, we can get into ethics and integrity and all of that and I hear you. I’m just saying get out of judgment for a minute. Decide, maybe that guy has a really valid reason for not stepping up and doing more. Or maybe he understands how to live life actually, which is to enjoy life and not stress so much and be such a perfectionist. You have to consider other alternatives.

Maybe he’s not wired the same way. Maybe he’s not motivated the same way. Maybe this is not the job for him and he eventually is going to get fired and end up with the job that is for him. Maybe that’s the exact path he’s supposed to be on. I don’t know. I don’t know what anyone else should be doing, what their lives should be like. You see what I’m saying? So, you can get out of judgment, which is a really important first step by recognizing that we’re all here having a human experience, and it’s supposed to look different for all of us.

And we’re all supposed to struggle in different ways. And we’re all supposed to be good at different things. And we’re all great and we’re all a mess in the end. So, we want to get out of judgment because we want to recognize there is no vertical scale. There is only a horizontal scale of differences. We have different people with different circumstances, different brains, different personalities, different strengths, different talents, different interests, different trauma, different fears, just different.

Different circumstances that they’re born into, different family situations, different things they’ve been taught, different socialization, different, different, different. Not better or worse. That is a hard thing for the brain to understand but it is the reality. So, I recommend you spend a lot of time practicing understanding it. Nobody is more valuable than anyone else in the end, regardless of people’s opinions.

Somebody loving you and adoring you and appreciating you or whatever work you do, or valuing you doesn’t make you a better person, it doesn’t. It doesn’t mean that you’re better. It means somebody has recognized your value. Now, can you recognize your value? Here’s where it gets interesting. So, if false confidence can feel like judgment or self-righteousness then true confidence feels more like curiosity, fascination, appreciation at times. And appreciation for people’s challenges, even, not like, oh, I’m so glad you had that challenge but just I can appreciate that must be hard, must be hard being them.

Or I can appreciate for me that this is hard for me and I can have compassion for me when I’m not able to step up the way I wanted to. So, what is true confidence? True confidence is not just having a lot of positive thoughts about yourself, although it will include some of that. It’s not just believing that you’re capable of the things that you desire to achieve, that you can do it. It’s not believing that you’re good enough. It’s believing all of that and embracing your dark side, we might call it.

Embracing that you also have weakness, that you also have shortcomings, that you also have pain or trauma that’s affecting you or health challenges, mental health challenges, limitations. Just downright wrong decisions, bad decisions that you make, temptations that you give into, insecurity that you operate from. You have all of those parts within you. And sometimes you manage those parts well and you don’t let them drive the bus and other days you don’t manage them well and you let them take the wheel. That’s just the reality of being a human being.

I’m not talking about making excuses for your bad behavior. I’m talking about embracing who you are in your complete humanness. So, it sounds a lot like, first of all, acknowledging your strengths, which some of you have a lot of work to do on acknowledging your strengths. I did an episode a while ago on bragging. I’m like, “Well, you should be bragging more.” Maybe not to other people, I mean, you can. I’m not opposed to you bragging to other people about what you’re really good at, but at least to yourself. Dude, you are really good at that, well done.

I think I’ve been hanging around my kids a lot. I’m starting to say words like dude. But anyway, bro, bro, what up? When I start using the Gen Z slang then you can just turn me off. I’ll try not to do that. Anyway, looking at yourself in the mirror and acknowledging, gosh, you’re really good at that. Thanks for doing that. Or you did an amazing job or that was really hard or I’m really proud of what you’ve done or how you handled that, or the way you’re navigating this situation.

Just be proud and grateful and acknowledge your strengths. Yes, I’m all for that. But also, the parts of you that struggle, the parts of you that are weak, the times when you fall short, can you at least accept it and not make your own compassion conditional on not having that part? Because you do have that part, my friend, so do I. We always will have it. We’re going to try to manage it, but we’re never going to get rid of our humanness.

So, it looks like, hey, I got you. I’m sorry, that must have been hard for you. Seems like you had a bad day. Or, hey, that wasn’t you at your best. What happened today? Is everything okay? What do you need? What’s lacking that you’re seeking that you thought you would get by acting out in that way? Because that’s not the way we’re going to get what we want and need. I don’t think we should continue that behavior. I don’t think that’s going to serve us. That doesn’t line up with our values, but you must have had a reason why. What’s going on?

I mean, true confidence, think about it, when you meet someone who’s truly confident. I’m not talking about false confidence. I’m not talking about pride and arrogance and self-righteousness and judgment and one upping. That’s false confidence. I’m talking about true confidence. True confidence sounds very much like humility. It sounds like, hey, so happy to be here today. Here’s what I hope to bring to the table because I’m really good at these things.

And here’s where I’m not good and I’m going to need your help, and I’m going to need suggestions. I’m going to need feedback because I’m terrible at that part. Doesn’t that feel like true confidence? I can tell you from working in corporate America, I worked with people of all types. I’m sure you have too, in whatever things that you spent your life doing. We run into people of all types.

And the people that have to explain everything and be the expert and constantly prove themselves and always be perfectionists and look perfect and act perfect. Those people are not confident. We can feel it. We feel the nervousness. We feel the tension. We feel the fear behind it. Those people who are not open to new ideas or suggestions or willing to be wrong, that is not confidence. That doesn’t feel like confidence to any of us. There’s a reason we’re repelled by that, because it’s not real, it’s pretend, it’s false confidence.

The people who are truly confident are very humble, very teachable, very open and often very successful, very successful. Some of the people that were highest up in the companies and organizations I’ve worked at in the past would say things like, “I never thought of it that way. Tell me why you think that. Tell me more about that.” That’s true confidence.

So, I don’t want you to be hard on yourself if you notice yourself in judgment and self-righteousness. Some of you, especially with certain relationships in your life, have a real habit of going into judgment. I just want you to notice that there’s this part of your brain that’s seeking validation, that’s trying to feel good about you. And it gets a little hit of validation by judging others, especially if you have other friends or people around you who will indulge in that same judgment with you.

When you can say, “You know what? I don’t think people should behave this way or do that thing.” And your friend says, “I agree. You know what? This person did this or I’ve noticed people saying this thing and people shouldn’t do that.” We not only get the validation that we’re good, a false sense of confidence, but we also get to connect with somebody else through it.

It’s the simplest, least common denominator way to connect with another person, to connect through judgment. It’s the easiest, but it doesn’t lift any of us higher. It gives us a false sense of confidence for a moment and a false sense of connection. Well, maybe it’s a real sense of connection, but I would argue that there are better, more long lasting, more expansive, more useful ways to connect with our friends. How do we do that if we’re not connecting through judgment?

To be honest with you, I feel like I’m at a point in my life where I’m barely figuring that out. Not that I don’t consider my friends or I to be super judgmental, but I think in little subtle ways it’s just easier for us to focus on negative and connect through negatives than through positives. One of the ways that I’m experimenting with more myself is through play. And by play it could literally mean you’re doing sports or something, but that’s not really what I mean when I say play.

I notice that sometimes teenagers are better at this than adults or young kids are really good at it. By play, I mean being in the moment and experiencing what’s going on and making some fun out of it, rather than talking about the past or talking about the future all the time. It’s really hard to talk about the past or talk about the future without judgment creeping in over and over again, judgment of ourselves, judgment of the situation, judgment of others.

But to be in the moment, to laugh, to enjoy what’s going on, to be silly and goofy and playful. I see my daughter and she’s got a friend in town this week and they’re laughing and they’re surfing and they’re eating tacos and they’re joking around with one another. They’re not talking, well, I’m sure when I’m not around, they talk about their friends and things. But what I see is an in the moment type of play. And that is an awesome way to connect and something we lose the ability to do as well as we get older.

I don’t know if there’s a vulnerability there we’re uncomfortable with or what. But I would encourage us to find different ways to connect and absolutely focus on building true confidence. It’s easy to be confident and feel good about yourself when you did a good job in whatever way you define a good job. But where you build the skill of it is when you fall short, when you drop the ball, when you don’t show up as the person you want to be, or you don’t feel how you want to feel, or you’ve made mistakes.

That’s your opportunity to connect with you, to have compassion for you. And it doesn’t mean that you ignore ‘bad behavior’. It means you say, “Hey, what’s going on? That wasn’t you at your best, but that’s okay. I still love you, but what’s going on? What do you need? I’m here for you. I got you. I love you.”

Alright, let’s focus on some true confidence, my friends. If you have questions about this or you have some other question about a topic you want me to address on the podcast, don’t forget we have a podcast hotline. You can call in and leave a message. And I have gotten several messages in the last few days. So, I’m going to be doing a couple of episodes coming up where I’m going to answer your questions. I apologize if I haven’t gotten to yours yet, but please feel free to call in at 877 hi Jody M. That’s Jody with a Y and M as in Moore, 877 hi Jody M.

Call and leave me a message if you have any questions on this, otherwise if you like today’s episode, I would be so delighted if you would share it in some way. Easy ways to take a screenshot of the podcast you’re listening to, share it on your Instagram stories, make sure you tag me so I can give you a reshare or just tell your friends. I would love to have you help me spread the word about the podcast.

Thanks for being here today, everybody. Don’t forget we’ve got a free webinar, How to Help Your Anxious Kid, hope to see you there. Take care, bye bye.

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The post 470. False Confidence appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We all have certain material things that we believe we need to feel successful, confident, or grown up. Maybe you’ve been in the pursuit of a nice house, car, or clothing, and you most certainly aren’t alone. Like most of you, I’ve spent a great deal of my life pursuing stuff, and it’s only just recently that I’ve realized the value of space.

My family has recently moved across the country, from Washington to California. We couldn’t be more excited to make this our new home, and of course, there’s no greater reminder of how much stuff we have than relocating, right? It seems like there’s so much more stuff than I ever remember having, which got me thinking about the value of space, and I can’t wait to share my thoughts with you.

Join me on this episode as I share how my approach to space has shifted in the last few years, and why I believe space is essential for forward movement and new possibilities. I’m exploring what happens when we allow for more space in our lives, both literally and figuratively, and areas of your life where you might want to examine the space you currently have.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How my approach to space has shifted in the last few years. * What happens when we allow for space. * Why we need space if we want to live bigger lives. * Areas of your life where you might want to examine the space you currently have.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!
Shira Gill
Alice Lane Home
Huberman Lab Podcast

I have spent a great deal of my life pursuing stuff and things. Like many people, I have certain things that I value that I really believed once I have enough of those things like a nice house or nice clothing or a nice car, whatever the things are. That then I would feel grown up, successful, confident, all the things that I want to feel. It’s only been in recent years that I’ve realized that space is just as valuable, if not more valuable to me than things. I want to talk to you about why today. And we’re going to talk about space in many different forms. This is episode 469, Space.

Hello, everybody. It feels like a very long time since I have plugged in my mic and gotten to sit and intimately talk to you this weird way that I do in a mic where I’m just picturing you. And afterwards gratefully some of you listen and take what you like from it. It’s been a while. I played some encore episodes for the last few weeks that were episodes that I knew you probably had forgotten or maybe had missed, that I hope we’re helpful to you, but I’m back recording live episodes now.

I needed a little pause as my husband and I and my kids and dogs, our whole family was moving across the country from Washington to California. And as you know, that is quite an undertaking, moving a family across the country. And thankfully we’ve had lots of help and lots of resources to make it easier. We’re so happy to be here. Everybody’s adjusting really well. The people in the San Diego area where we’ve moved couldn’t be nicer, and we’re just excited to continue to make this our home.

So that’s what’s going on with me. That is partly what prompted me to want to record this episode. But also, those of you in The Lab know that we are doing Summer of Style this year. I wanted to do something kind of lighter and more fun in the summertime. And so just a couple of weeks ago I taught a workshop on Prepping Your Closet. That’s the first part of Summer of Style is before I want you to think about your wardrobe and making over your wardrobe, which may mean purchasing a few new things, but it may not.

It may mean just working with what you already have, but either way I wanted everyone to get their closets ready first. Because if you have a cluttery, messy closet, which most of us do, and you have no space in your closet, this whole project is not going to go as well. And it’s certainly not going to last very long. And as I was preparing the material to teach for that first part of Summer of Style, which by the way, you can still join us for it, if you want, we can send you the replay of the first part that you missed.

We’re going to go on and do Define your Style in July. And then we’re going to do Shopping With Intention in August. But at any rate, the point is, when I was preparing the Prep Your Closet workshop I started thinking about this concept of space. And of course, as I’m moving, there’s no greater reminder of how we all, or at least I have way too much stuff than moving. You start taking it out of the places where it’s been hiding and crammed into drawers and closets and things. And there’s so much more of it than you ever remember having.

It seems impossible that it ever all fit into the space that it was in. And then you get to a new place and it really doesn’t fit, especially if you downsized like we have. We went from a five bedroom house to a three bedroom house and we lost some common living areas and things as well, which is fine, we’re going to be just fine. But we’ve lost a lot of storage space that I’m used to having and a lot of extra space. So, I’ve been thinking a lot about space.

And one of the things, like I said, when I was preparing that workshop, Prep Your Closet, one of the things that came up is I realized I have learned to value space in the last handful of years. Part of it is because of my friend, Shira Gill, who you should for sure look up. She has a couple of amazing books and a great social media presence and online presence. And she is a coach who helps people with decluttering and organizing and styling their spaces in their homes in beautiful ways.

And she sort of introduced this idea to me in this way years ago when I worked with her on some organization in my own home. And she talked about the value of an empty shelf or an empty drawer or just an empty spot in your closet or your kitchen cabinet or your pantry. And when she said it, she’s like, “I just love having an empty shelf.” And I remember thinking, what is she talking about? Why would you love, why would you purposely try to have an empty shelf? She said, “I just love it. I love having empty spaces.” And that was kind of the end of it. She kind of dropped it like that.

And I had this little, wait, what, thing happen in my mind, but we didn’t really discuss it and then we moved on, but it stuck with me and it lingered there and I kept noticing it and I kept thinking about it. And I started noticing in my own life how in my home I had no empty shelves, no empty drawers. In fact, if there was an empty space, my first thought was, what can I put there? Either what do I need to store there, what can I shove in there because I don’t know what else to do with it? Or should I put some decor on there and use it to decorate my house in some way?

But the thought of just leaving it empty never once occurred to me until Shira said that. Now, as I’ve experimented with it and tried it out in my own life, I’ve realized it is amazing. Now, again, we are just downsizing houses and right now I can’t say that I have, I do have actually a few empty places, but I’m not done unpacking yet. So, I don’t know if I’m going to achieve that goal. But I’m going to keep working to downsize to get to some empty shelves or spaces, because here’s why, for me anyway, and I want you to think about what would be true for you.

But space equals possibility. Space equals forward movement and change. If I take every drawer and cabinet and shelf etc. and I fill it up with all of the same stuff I’ve had, then I’m inviting my old life to just continue on with me. Now, the truth is, I like my old life. I want most of it to continue with me, so that’s all good and fine. But I bet there are places where opening up possibility might serve me well.

Now, this might seem trivial. So, for example, if I leave an empty, let’s say an empty shelf in one of my kitchen cabinets, I’m not talking about just the really, really high ones that you can’t reach or see and so, you leave them empty. I’m talking about prime real estate, just leave a whole shelf empty. If I just leave space, or at least maybe I put a few glasses on there, but I don’t have to cram it full of a million things just because there happens to be space there. I leave lots of space on that shelf. Then what it does is it opens up my mind and my life to possibility.

And I’m not just talking about possible new dishes or new things in my kitchen that I could put there, although maybe. But I’m talking about possible new, all kinds of things I feel come my way when I allow space. New ideas, new relationships, new routines, new ways of interacting with my family, new activities, new hobbies. If we don’t have space, nothing new can fit in. So, I am literally talking about this in a material sense, but I want to talk about it in a more figurative sense as well.

Let me just kind of finish off this literal material piece by saying another thing that sort of landed in my brain and hasn’t left is something that my friend, Jessica Bennett said. Jessica owns Alice Lane Home, and she’s an amazing interior designer. And we were talking about design and this might have even been when she was on my podcast years ago. But she said, “Sometimes people want to cram so much furniture and stuff into a space, forgetting that life happens in the spaces in between the furniture. That’s where the living happens.”

And I was like, “Oh, my gosh, that’s so brilliant and so true.” We’ve got to allow space to live a bigger life. Now, kids understand this. I don’t know about you, but my kids’ most favorite thing is when we move into the house and there’s no furniture. That’s so exciting to them. They want to run around and play games and they find that kind of space so liberating and so exciting. Of course, we need some furniture and we need some things to live.

But fascinating to me how kids get so excited about space. And my guess is that there’s a little bit of that within us too that we sometimes forget to acknowledge. That is where life happens, in the space in between the stuff. Now let’s talk about some other areas where you might want to examine, have I left enough space? Do you have space in your schedule? Some of you need to examine this. I do not think human beings were meant to be on the go from sunup to sundown, to be scheduled non-stop.

Even if your schedule is driving people around and making meals and maybe you go to work, or maybe you volunteer somewhere or whatever it is that you do. I don’t think it’s healthy for us to not have any space in our plans and that might be your day-to-day routine and schedule or that might be your life plan. I know some of you are planners. You’re like, “We’re going to do this and then in five years, we’re going to do this. And then in this timeframe, this kid is going to graduate and then we’re going to do this.”

Okay, planning is a good thing, I’m all for it. But do you have some space in there that allows for the unknown, that allows for possibilities that you haven’t considered yet, that allows for ideas that can’t fit in if there’s no space into your brain, which is the next place I want you to think about space. Do you allow for space in your mind? I’ll tell you what, most people are actually scared to death of just having space in their minds because we’ve lost the practice of it.

We constantly have earbuds in our ears or a TV on in the room or some kind of feed happening feeding our brains. Do you ever just sit down and think? Maybe you call this meditation. Meditation is space. It’s just opening up space and practicing having space in your mind and in your heart and in your body. And if we don’t allow for it, if we have constant stimulus coming at us, we are missing out on possibilities.

Just like if I don’t have any room in my house to put anything new, if I don’t have any room in my brain to put new things, I’m limiting myself. I’m just going to keep recreating what I’ve done in the past. Interesting to think about.

I don’t know the exact data on this, but recently I was listening to the Huberman Lab and he was talking about the actual learning that takes place. Whether you’ve taken a class or you’re reading a book or you’re practicing a musical instrument or a sport or something, the real learning happens after the class or the book or the practice or the routine. It happens afterwards as your brain rewires itself to accommodate the new information.

But if you don’t have enough space, if you don’t have enough time in between learnings as well as recovery, we might call it, then the brain isn’t able to rewire itself as effectively. So, there is literal scientific data that proves that space is necessary in your brain and with your body in order to cement what you learned. And again, I like the idea that it allows for other possibilities.

What about space in your routines or your relationships? I don’t know if relationships is the right word. But again, as my family and I have moved to a new area, I do have a sister and her family that live here. And then people have been so nice at reaching out to us, and so we’ve kind of made some friends and we know a couple of people, but we don’t know very many people. Back where we came from I had a lot more family and I had lots of friends and lots of people that we’d gotten to know over the years. We don’t really know people.

And I’m noticing myself be uncomfortable with the space of that both for me and my kids. Normally if one of my kids is kind of bored, one of my younger kids, I can suggest a couple of friends that we could have over for a play date or a place that we could go and something we could do. And there’s plenty to do here, but I’m still figuring out what a lot of it is. So just having space in our routine, space in our relationships, opening up space for new friendships, new opportunities to serve, new lifestyle routines, if you will.

And we have to allow for the space before we can fill some of it in. And I’ll tell you what, it feels uncomfortable to us. We’re like, “Let’s get back to what we’re used to.” And I’m trying to remind myself and my kids that this kind of space is actually really healthy and exciting for us. So, I don’t know, that’s the concept I was thinking about that I wanted to share with you today and I would invite you to consider it in your own life.

And I’m sure there are other areas where we could allow for space that I haven’t considered. Please feel free to come and hang out with me on Instagram. And I keep a close eye on my DMs or the comments on my posts and we can continue to talk about it. But I love the idea that space is so valuable, it’s so freeing. Space is where there’s peace if we can allow for it and get comfortable with it. And it opens up possibilities, forward movement and a new future. Let’s start valuing space.

Thanks for joining me today everybody. I’ll be back next week with another new episode and I’ll see you then.

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The post 469. Space appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Our brains love to focus on what we don’t like, and on some level, this can be useful to us. There are a myriad of things we may not want to be happy about or approve of. The problem, however, is that emotions like disappointment, frustration, anger, and hate all feel absolutely terrible in our bodies.

If you want to feel happier, more motivated, or more energetic in your everyday life, you must spend at least as much time you spend focusing on what you don’t like in the space of approval. Approval power is a concept I direct myself towards as much as possible because it consistently makes a huge difference in every area of my life, and I’m showing you how to develop this skill for yourself.

Join me this week to discover what approval power entails, and why exercising your choice to like or approve of something, even if you initially dislike it, can be incredibly life-changing. You’ll hear why we’re so quick to decide we don’t like or disapprove of something, and how you can start practicing approval power to enhance your life in every way possible.

If you’ve noticed a tendency to people please, which could look like saying yes when you really want to say no, or feeling like you’re being walked all over, I’m inviting you to join me for The People Pleasing Detox. This is where you’ll learn why this is happening and what to do about it. This is a one-time offer and you don’t want to miss it, so click here to register!

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why you can always choose to like something, even if you initially dislike it. * The meaning we create behind disliking or disapproving of something. * How not liking something hinders your ability to be happy. * What’s happening in your brain when it comes to approval and disapproval. * How to develop approval power to enhance your enjoyment of life.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!

Our brains love to focus on what we don’t like. It feels useful to us, and on some level, it can be. The only problem is when we remain focused here, we feel down. Disappointment, disgust, frustration, anger, hate, these all feel terrible in our bodies. So if we want to feel happier, more motivated, more energetic, we have to manage our minds to spend at least as much time in the space of approval. And it’s easier to do than you might think.

Welcome to episode 468, Approval Power.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back. I have one more encore episode. The last couple of weeks, I’ve been playing some best of. And this is another again, that was recorded years ago, and it’s just such a powerful concept. I really genuinely think about it all the time, and I notice myself when I’m getting away from approval power, and I try to direct myself back to it as much of the time as possible.

So I wanted to share it with you here today. Again, if you have not yet registered for the People Pleasing Detox, this is gonna be an incredible master class that I’m teaching this summer. It’s brand new. I’ve never taught it before. I don’t know that I’ll ever teach it again. So make sure you register. Whether you’re gonna come live, I highly recommend you come live because then I can take your real live questions and scenarios. But if you can’t be there live, no problem. We’ll send you the recording afterwards.

But this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. I feel like, especially those of you who are women like myself who are maybe mothers, we have to learn to speak up more. We have to learn to use our voices to make our intellect and our hearts more well known, not only for our sake, but to contribute to the good of our communities, our families, our church congregation and community.

And I really feel that it’s so important that women be willing to be more bold. This is the best way I can say it. We have to be braver because telling the truth requires courage. So this applies, of course, in your own personal life, but this applies on a bigger scale as well. So I hope that you will join me for this class. I’m gonna teach you how to do it. I’m gonna teach you how to do it in a way that feels like you.

How to tell the truth, how to say no when you wanna say no, how to speak up and disagree when you feel like you disagree in a way that is still very kind and generous and not argumentative and feels like you, more or less. So head to jodymoore.com/masterclass. That’s where you can register. Again, it’s jodymoore.com/masterclass. I’ll see you there.

So, I want to talk to you about approval power today. This is something that I’m generally really good at, but only because I trained myself to be good at it. Although it is something that I noticed and have paid attention to for a very long time, some of the things that I do as a coach are definitely things that, Heavenly Father gave me some talents and gifts, as he’s given all of us talents and gifts. Some of mine lie in the area of observing human behavior and figuring out how to leverage the way our heavenly parents created us to just have a more enjoyable, more successful life.

So I want to give you this story, and some of you might have heard me tell this story before. I’ve told it before, but this is from when I was a senior in high school. I was dating a guy who’s a great guy. I did not end up marrying that guy. He’s not my husband.

Anyway, we were at the McDonald’s drive-thru and the woman went to give us change and for some reason she was out of, I don’t know, quarters or dollar bills or something. And so she was waiting for her manager to bring change and she said to my boyfriend at the time, she said, “I don’t have the right change to give you unless you’re okay with dimes. I have dimes. Can I give you a bunch of dimes?” And my boyfriend said, “Dimes? We love dimes.”

And for some reason, it just struck me as so awesome that not only did he say, “Yeah, it’s fine. That’s okay. We’re not going to be difficult here. We can take dimes.” But he went so far as to say, “We love dimes.” And I was just laughing because come on, nobody loves dimes. Nobody wants a whole bunch of change, or at least we just don’t even care. We don’t really pay attention. And I was like, you know, what’s awesome is you can just choose to love dimes if it just so happens that someone needs to give you a bunch of dimes.

And there are so many things like that in our world. Things that you could just choose to like. Did you know this? You can choose to like things. You can choose to approve of things. And I’ve found that I am a much happier person now that I’ve trained myself to like most things. I really do. There are still some things I don’t like. And actually, I always want to not like a lot of things. I want to not like it when people mistreat one another. And I want to not like when somebody’s in pain and somebody’s suffering.

There are things that I want to not like. But there are so many things that I used to walk around not liking that I realized there was zero upside to that. It was just not necessary. And it wasn’t adding to making my life better. It was doing the opposite, it was detracting, it was making my life less enjoyable.

Do you know why? “I like that” is a thought. It’s not a fact. It’s not an observation that you’re making. And people think this, they’re like, “I just noticed, I like this and I don’t like that.” As though they’re telling me about themselves, what they’ve observed about themselves. What we lose when we talk about it that way is the reality that it’s a choice. You have a choice about whether you’re going to like things or not. I know it doesn’t feel that way. I know it feels like it just happens to you. But I promise you, it is a choice.

Again, I have always been fascinated by this. And so I’ve observed it in many ways. I notice that it used to be that the style that was cool and acceptable and modern and what we thought we liked in kitchens was a lot of dark wood and dark cabinetry and dark floors and dark banisters and railings. Dark was kind of cool. Maybe it was cozy. I feel like this was sort of a thing back in the 90s or whatever. It was like cozy and expensive looking to have lots of dark wood. I shouldn’t be talking about home decor. I don’t know what I’m talking about.

But I do know that if you go in a house that was modern back in the 90s or the 80s and you walk in there today, odds are you’re going to go, “I don’t really like this.” Even if somebody took great care of it. Let’s say that it’s not worn out. There aren’t problems, aren’t things breaking down. Somebody took really good care and it’s very clean. You still might think that you don’t like it if you’re like me. Because if you’ve been watching TV at all, or been on the internet, or just been exposed to the world at all, then you know that now it’s supposed to be light and bright. That’s what we like. Bright, light, white kitchens, or at least a lot of light in there. The dark wood, not so much anymore, unless it’s done exactly the right way.

So how is it that we went from liking this type of kitchen to disliking that type of kitchen? It’s not just something that happened to you. It’s your brain that changed. It’s your thoughts about what is a pretty kitchen. That’s the only thing that changed. So I just want you to notice it’s a choice. Now, you were given those thoughts, possibly if you’re like me, were given those thoughts by the media and things like that.

A lot of people say that and they’re like, “Yeah, marketers sit around tables and think, what else can we sell people?” But I personally don’t think that most companies and marketers are out to try to screw us over. I think that they sit around going, “How can we make people’s lives better? How can we help solve a problem and what would be fun and interesting and new that people might enjoy?” I think most of the time, actually, marketers and companies are coming from really good intentions.

But still, my point is, we get offered a lot of thoughts from the world about what we should like and what we should dislike. And I just want you to know that it’s okay to take it from outside, but it is a choice still. It’s a choice to decide I agree with that or I disagree with that. And that if you want to strengthen your ability to like things, you can, and then you will gain approval power.

Approval power is just the power that you have as a person when you get better of approving of more things. There are so many things that are either neutral that you’re not paying attention to that you could just choose to approve of or things that you think you dislike. And I’m just like, why do we dislike that?

So here’s another example, I had a friend when I was in college, again, this moment stands out in my head just like my boyfriend saying “Dimes, we love dimes.” This moment stands out too. I don’t remember exactly the setup for the conversation. All I remember is my friend saying to me, “I hate big trucks.” And I was like, “What? Why do you hate big trucks? Why are you bothering with hating big trucks? Is there an upside to that?” Because you don’t have to own a big truck. No one’s ever going to force you to. And yet some people like big trucks, and I kind of think that’s okay. I think it might not be useful to hate big trucks.

Think about all the things that you have opinions on. This is something, again, that I’ve gotten really good at, and part of this I’ve always been actually good at, and it comes from a weakness probably of not wanting to exert myself. It might be coming from laziness, you might say, but I’ve always been pretty good at not having opinions about things that are sort of irrelevant or that I don’t have influence in.

Here’s what I mean. A lot of people have opinions about the decision that the school board made when, especially over the last year and a half as COVID has interrupted things like should we let the kids go to school? Should we not should we have the masks? Should teachers do it this way or that way and so many decisions now. If I wanted to get involved and go to those meetings and pay attention and log in and write in my opinion or fill out all the surveys or whatever.

Okay, that’s fine. I just don’t choose to. I’m just like, “You know what? Anything they ask my opinion on I’m perfectly happy to share it. But otherwise, I just choose not to have strong opinions about whether they’re doing it the right way or the wrong way.” Because you know what? I’m not on the school board. I’m not a teacher or a member of that board. I just don’t have, not that I couldn’t influence it if I wanted to, but I don’t see anybody being mistreated here.

I think that everybody has the same goal, which is to do right by our kids and our teachers and keep everybody as safe as possible. And so how we do that? I just choose not to have a lot of opinions because as soon as I have opinions and the decisions they make don’t line up with my opinions, then I’m going to be tempted to diminish my approval power. I don’t want to diminish my approval power. That does not control the school board. All it does is punish me and it minimizes my experience of life.

I just want to like be grateful that somebody is taking the time to make those decisions and that somebody is doing what they do for my kids and that teachers are showing up and that it’s a hard year for everybody. I just want to mostly approve of everything. So it makes it easier for me to have approval power if I don’t get all into the nitty-gritty of things that really aren’t my business, if you will. Now, that could be different in different situations. If I had a kid that was struggling or something and I need to get involved, that’s different. But I’m just saying like, not really mine.

So again, sometimes people start talking about a particular issue. Maybe it’s politics, maybe it’s whatever. And again, I’m not saying you don’t show up and show up for a cause that you believe in. Do that for sure. I’m just talking about the general, like, “Can you believe this person said this thing? Can you believe this decision that this place made?” I’m always like, “You know what? I just, they didn’t ask me.” I mean, that’s the truth. Like, yeah, they didn’t ask me.

So I just don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it, having a strong opinion about it. Because it’s not a cause that I look at and think that’s an injustice. We need to fight that. It’s just like, maybe I would have a different opinion about how to go about that. But it’s really not my business. It’s not my thing. It’s not where I’m choosing to put a lot of my time and effort right now. I think they have good intentions. They didn’t ask me. I say this all the time. I’m not kidding you.

We have conversations about like, “Oh, can you believe that they’re doing this at church now and that, the whatever, we made this decision about how to run the meeting.” I’m like, “Yeah, well, they didn’t ask me. So I’m just going to support them. I just going to approve of what they’re doing.” I really do just choose to approve of so many things. I choose to approve of the way people look, the way they choose to dress, the way they do their hair, whether or not men have beards or what have you. I’m just like, “Good for them. That’s what they choose. I’m all in.”

I think this is what people have a hard time wrapping their heads around. Like, if it’s not the way I would do it, if it’s not my style, or if they don’t talk the way I talk or they don’t show up the way I would show up, then I should be mad about it. I should disapprove of it. And again, there are some behaviors that I’m like, “Hey, I just don’t think we need to mistreat each other or disrespect each other. I disapprove of that.” But otherwise, when it comes to like opinions, I just, not only do I not disapprove, I approve. Like, “Look at your style. Amazing. I love it.”

Even if it’s totally opposite from my style. I might never have that same style. I might never dress the way they’re dressed. If it’s not harming someone else, I just choose to approve it. I choose to love it. I choose to like things.

This has made me so powerful in my own life because I walk around feeling good, feeling happy, feeling the benefits of liking things. Just like when we dislike things and we disapprove and we criticize everything, we feel the effects of that. That impacts us more than anyone else. So as much as possible, access your approval power for your own sake, for your own benefit.

I’ve done this so much that I choose to like things ahead of time. So for example, maybe I order something in the mail. I order something for my house or something, whatever, a new item of clothing or something. I just choose to like it in advance. I just like it before I even get it. I don’t think “I wonder if I’m going to like it.” I just go, “I can’t wait for that thing to get here. I love it.” And mostly I do like what I end up buying for that reason. And if I really can’t get there, then I still go, “I love that thing for coming into my life and I’m going to give it to someone who would love it even more than me.” Might not be the right fit for me, but I don’t have to dislike it to get rid of it. I can still like it and decide on my style. See what I’m saying?

I also realized the other day that this has made me obviously like liking clothes and things like that. It doesn’t really matter. What I want you to do is strengthen your approval muscle. I want you to strengthen your approval power because ultimately what happens when you start liking all the little random things in the world that people just have opinions about is you get better at liking people.

It’s made me so much better at liking people, like people that I used to find irritating I find fascinating and I love just observing what might be happening in their heads and wondering what it might be like to be them. I can appreciate a lot more about people now that I’ve trained myself to be better at accessing approval power.

It’s way easier to disapprove of things. Way easier. So much harder to approve of things. So it feels sometimes like important and smart or intellectual or something to be critical of things. I was going to say we have a new dentist. I mean, we do, but only because we didn’t go to the dentist for years after moving to Spokane. We just didn’t bother finding a dentist and finally I was like, “We’ve got to go to the dentist. This is ridiculous.” So we started going to the dentist and I was like, “Don’t you love that dentist office?” And he’s like, “Yeah.” I mean, he’s not disapproving of them by any means, but he’s not feeling the benefit of the approval power.

I am like, “I just love them. They’re so nice. And I love the staff. They stop and they explain what’s happening and isn’t it cool. They have cool technology and like, I just love that dentist office.” I purposely do that. I purposely think about all the things I love about it because I’m teaching my brain to approve of things. It’s really easy to just sort of ignore it because there’s nothing to disapprove of or to find the little thing like, “Yeah, I like it except for this one thing.” Like, why? Why bother? I just don’t see the upside in most cases. If it’s not something dangerous or what have you, then what’s the point?

So, I had this experience, which is actually what prompted me to do this podcast. I’ve had two people in the last like four to six weeks ask my opinion about another person who I’ve worked with in various capacities in my business who they were considering working with. Maybe they were considering hiring them for their services or something like that. Twice in the last probably month or so said, “Hey, I know you’ve worked with this person or this organization. Could you share with me what your experience was? I’m considering hiring them.”

And both times I heard myself saying and thinking, “I love them.” And a little part of my brain’s like, “Oh, they’re going to think that you’re not very smart if you don’t have something to say, this is the only drawback. This is the only downside.” And in fact, some of these, at least one of organizations that I was asked about, I know other people that don’t, haven’t had the same thoughts and feelings. They don’t love them like I do. They’ve maybe stopped working with them. So I’m like, “Should I let them know that?” And here’s what I realized.

You know how there are people that you don’t really ask their opinion because you know they just hate everything? You have people like this. You’re like, “Hey, let’s ask our friend if he liked the movie.” And then you think, “No, of course he didn’t like it. He doesn’t like any movies.” Or “Let’s ask him if that restaurant was good.” “No, he’s not the one to ask. He’s going to say no because he’s so critical. He doesn’t like anything. He’s going to tell you what was wrong with it.” Not the person’s opinion we want to ask.

Well, I think I’m kind of that person on the opposite end Like you ask me and odds are I’m going to love it. I’m going to love the person. I’m going to love the movie. I’m going to love the restaurant. I’m going to love the organization, because I like to love things. I like to at least like and approve of things. Because it’s so much fun. I feel so much happier. So if you ask my opinion, there’s a really good chance I’m going to say, “I love that place. Here’s what I love about them.

Here’s why I think they’re amazing. Here’s why I love that person. Oh, that person’s brilliant. I’m so impressed with that person.” It’s not the person. I mean, it is, but it’s my head being really naturally good at liking things because I practiced it, because I trained myself, because I’m so good at accessing approval power. And this is a power you can access too, my friend. It really is just a choice.

Now, I’m going to tell you the best part of approval power. Are you ready? When you practice, and you get better at approval power, you naturally get better at approving of yourself. You just do. When you’re good at liking things, it doesn’t matter what the thing is. It could be you. And that is what I’ve discovered. That is why this is the most powerful thing, is because when you love yourself, you don’t have to think about yourself anymore all day long.

You don’t have to, you know that old story that your brain plays over and over again about what’s wrong with you, and how you don’t look right, and you didn’t do it right, and you’re not smart enough, and you haven’t made the right choices, and you’re not a good enough parent, or whatever it is. Yeah, that soundtrack, isn’t it boring? Aren’t you bored of it? It’s so old. I’m so tired of it. I finally was like, “I’m done watching that movie. I’ve watched it way too many times.”

And I started approving of all the things outside of me. I started liking people’s names, and liking how they did their hair, and liking just all kinds of random things and you know what happened? I actually like myself better. I didn’t even mean to. It just happened on accident. Because again, if you ask me about someone, I’m probably going to tell you they’re great. Including me. It’s really just a decision.

I was listening to someone get coached the other day by another coach and he was saying how he’s having a hard time loving himself because he has some saggy skin. And he was asking the coach, he was like, “I know I need to love myself, but how do I?” And I just wanted to scream into the computer, but I wasn’t live, so it wouldn’t have worked. But I wanted to say, “You just choose, it’s just a choice. You just decide to love yourself. Like, yeah, I got some saggy skin, and I love all of me, let’s go. So what?

It’s skin. So what bodies do, bodies do funny things, especially as we get older.” You just have to make the choice. And if it’s hard to start with you, I think that’s the hardest place to start, honestly, to start with yourself. That’s the hardest place.

Start with things outside of you. Start with just loving that person’s name. Like, “What a great name. That’s such a cool name. I love that name. I love what you’re wearing today. I love that you just said that. I love that you would think about it that way.” Start with loving other people. That’s so fun to do. If that feels too hard, start with something smaller. Start with loving the color of paint on your house. Start with loving the plants in your front yard. Start with loving the plants at church as you walk in the door. Do you ever notice them?

You ever notice the landscaping at church? What if you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I love that someone planted flowers. Somebody thought about, hey, you know, it’d be nice, some flowers. And then they went and bought flowers and then they planted the flowers and those flowers haven’t even died. Amazing.” See what I mean? Like there’s things everywhere that you could love. And when you do that, my friends, you will access an amazing power. Do it with me. I’d love to hear about it. Have a beautiful weekend, bye-bye.

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The difference between someone who achieves a challenging goal and somebody who doesn’t is not what their brain believes, it’s not that they’re more skilled, intelligent, disciplined, cash-rich, time-rich, or better looking. The difference is that they’re more willing to endure pain, suffering, and misery. They went through The River of Misery, instead of getting into it and turning back.

The River of Misery is that short but often difficult period of time where you’re struggling the hardest with whatever you’re trying to achieve. Whether you’re trying to communicate differently with your spouse, stop yelling at your kids, or start eating better, we first need to decide we want to change, then we go through the pain of actually doing it.

Tune in this week to discover the secret to doing hard things. I discuss why crossing The River of Misery is an essential part of personal growth, and you’ll learn how to cross The River of Misery, push through the challenges, and experience real personal growth on the other side.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What The River of Misery is and how to identify it in your own life. * The answers we’re looking for when we’re stuck in The River of Misery. * How your brain will try to avoid crossing The River of Misery. * Some relatable examples of the River of Misery in action. * How to cross The River of Misery, push through the challenges, and experience real personal growth.

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Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
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The Life Coach School
1. The River of Misery

The difference between somebody who achieves a challenging goal and someone who doesn’t is not what our brains believe. It’s not that they are more skilled, have more time, or money, are more disciplined, smarter, better looking, or any other form of being ahead or on top.

It’s that they are willing to endure pain and suffering and misery. They went through the river of misery instead of getting into it and then turning back.

What do I mean by that? Allow me to explain. This is episode 467, The River of Misery.

Hey, everybody. I recently got a message from somebody asking me, “Do you know which episode was the one you recorded on the river of misery? I’m trying to find it.” And then, before I could reply, they said, “Never mind, I found it.”

And I was like, “Was that a good one?” I’m trying to remember because I think it was five years ago I recorded that episode. So, I went back and listened to it and I was like, “That was a good one, and a good reminder to myself.”

So, I wanted to share it with you again in case you missed it the first time or it’s been a while for you since you listened to it. This was an amazing tool I was taught when I went through coach training at The Life Coach School.

I teach it in various ways now, but the way I learned it in its most pure form is the river of misery is a beautiful metaphor and I’m very excited to share it with you today because understanding this is going to help you achieve more of the things you want to achieve in your life.

That said, I have a masterclass happening in July if you’ve not registered for it yet. This is a brand-new – I’ve never taught this topic in this way before and I will only be teaching it one time. You will get the replay if you can’t come live, but you’ve got to go sign up for it today.

It is called The People-Pleasing Detox. And listen, I know who you are, my people pleasers. The truth is, you’re not people pleasers. You just engage in people-pleasing behaviors at times. And the truth is, every single one of us does, at times.

So, it’s nothing to feel bad about. I don’t want you to identify and label yourself a people pleaser. I just want you to understand what’s causing it and what the real work is to do in order to get some more leverage over the part of yourself that wants to be more genuine, more authentic, get your own back, and still be loving and kind.

Did you know that you don’t have to people please in order to be very kind, very generous, and very gracious with others. And I’m going to teach you how to do that at The People-Pleasing Detox Masterclass.

So, head to jodymoore.com/masterclass to register today. That’s jodymoore.com/masterclass.

Are you guys so excited to learn about the river of misery? I guess I haven’t taught this concept on the podcast before because we talked about it at Better Than Happy Live recently in Lehi. Holy cow. Can we just pause for a minute and can we talk about Lehi?

When I lived in Utah, which was, I don’t know how long ago, 20 years ago probably, Lehi was like, they’re Lehi roller mills and some rolling fields and a lot of nothingness. And Lehi does not look like that at all anymore. It is a booming, thriving place with lots of fun restaurants and shopping and people and cars everywhere. And anyway, we had a fantastic day at Thanksgiving Point during the Tulip Festival. It couldn’t have been more beautiful.

We had an amazing group of individuals there. If you were there, thank you for coming. I love you. Anyway, I came home from that event and posted something on Instagram and everybody was sharing some of their takeaways from the event. And several people talked about learning about the river of misery and how it helped them shift the way that they’re thinking about things they’re going through. And then some people were like, “what’s the river of misery? I want to know about that.”

So I thought, okay, let’s do a podcast all about the River of Misery. You asked for it. Now, this is actually a really cool tool that I use with my clients.

Let’s talk about the river of misery. So let me, first of all, just teach you the concept and then I’ll just do tons of examples.

The river of misery is a concept that we teach to help us gain some understanding when things get really hard. Because when we understand why things are hard, it makes them a lot more tolerable, right? It’s that idea that we just want to know why. We want to know that there’s a cause. We want to know that there’s a possible end. And then we can actually tolerate quite a few things.

Think about when you get the flu. It’s miserable having the flu, right? You feel terrible. You can’t get out of bed. You can’t function and live your life the way that you are used to, but you just know, oh, I have the flu. So you know that this is caused by something going on in your body, and you know it’s probably going to run its course and take maybe a couple of days, hopefully not too much longer than that, and then you’re going to start feeling better because your immune system’s going to kick in and you’re going to get back to your life. So you can tolerate the flu because you know why, you know what’s going on.

So with the river of misery, it works in much the same way. When we understand what’s going on, then we can tolerate quite a bit. And with the river of misery, these are things that we often are choosing to tolerate because of what we’re trying to accomplish or who we’re trying to become, okay?

So you think about where you are now, and I like to apply this concept around maybe a goal that I have that I’m trying to accomplish, okay? I’m just going to use weight loss because it’s such an easy one, and you can apply this to any area of your life. But let’s say my body weighs a certain amount, and I think it should weigh less. Maybe I’m not as healthy as I could be, or for whatever reasons, I want to weigh less than I weigh now.

So I have where I’m currently at, which is sort of the pond of misery, right? I have thoughts like my body doesn’t look right, and I don’t feel as energetic and as good as I could, and my clothes don’t fit the way they used to. And so that’s what I call the pond of misery, right? It’s kind of miserable, but it’s also very familiar. It’s not that deep. We just kind of splash around in that pond.

Now, all of that misery is created by our thinking, right? It’s not true that anything’s wrong with your body. You could just go buy some new clothes. There’s a solution for the pond. And I’m not opposed to people just solving for the pond if they want to. But there’s also this other model that’s available where I get to my ideal weight.

I change my eating habits. I change the amount of time I exercise and I change my body and I start feeling like, yeah, I like the way my body looks. It looks how I think it should and I fit in my clothes the way I want to. And that’s the place where people want to get too many times with their goals, right?

So between where we are now with the pond of misery and the dry land, which by the way, you’ll feel great about your body then, but then you’ll find something else to be miserable about. So please don’t think that I’m saying just lose weight and then you’re happy forever. That’s what your brain might believe. It’s not true at all.

But there is the possibility of you losing weight and getting your body to the size you want it to be, right? So in between the pond of misery and that dry land is what I call the river of misery.

So in the river, things get worse than they were in the pond. It’s much deeper and it’s moving very quickly. And the brain starts to think, “But this is a terrible idea. Why are we doing this? We might die in this river. We should just go back to that pond. That was fine. There’s nothing wrong with being a little miserable in the pond. Let’s go back there.” Your brain will try really, really hard to talk you out of being in the river of misery.

So again, back to my example of weight loss, the river often looks like me having to not eat the foods that I really want to eat. I might have to tolerate some deprivation. I’m going to have to learn to change my taste buds, which means I’m going to have to try to eat things that don’t taste that great to me. I’m going to have to be disappointed because I don’t get the foods that I want all the time. Maybe I’m going to have to start exercising. And if I haven’t exercised in a while, that’s going to be pretty painful, especially in the beginning as I get my body in better shape.

So this is the river of misery. Now the brain does not like that river at all. The brain’s like, “Why do we need to do this? Let’s go back to the pond.”

So when you know that you’re just in the river of misery, then you realize, okay, I can just be miserable for a while. It’s not going to last forever because I’m going to wrestle with that in my head. I’m going to sort through it. I am going to make the changes.

You will get in better shape if you just keep exercising. There’s no two buts about it, right? Your body will eventually get healthier and more toned and more conditioned, and then that exercise will become easier. And if you keep eating foods that fuel your body, you will lose weight.

So there is dry land on the other side of that river, but you got to swim through the river to get there. You have to be willing to go through the river and you have to stay in the river long enough to get to the dry ground without going back to the pond. That is the key to success.

Now, my brain likes metaphors. I’ve always been pretty good at finding metaphors and teaching in metaphors, and I notice metaphors all over. And I notice metaphors for the river of misery all over. Here’s one of my favorite ones. I like to take a bath. I like to get in a bathtub and relax, shut the door to try to keep out the kids and the pets.

It doesn’t always work. They can get in sometimes, but ideally I’ll get in the bath, I’ll put on a podcast or something I want to listen to, and that’s my time to relax. But have you ever gotten in the bath, get all undressed, get in the warm water, relax, and then realize that you kind of need to pee? I have.

This is where now we’re in the pond of misery, right? I could just stay in the bath and be not as comfortable and not as relaxed because I kind of need to pee, or I could get out of the bath, dripping wet, cold, totally uncomfortable, get in the river of misery, and go to the bathroom with a wet bum and wet legs and slip around on the toilet, right, and go through all of that, but then I get to get back in my bath and enjoy it and relax and not have the feeling of a full bladder.

That is my favorite example of the river of misery that I came up with one day in the bath. Sorry if that’s too much information for some of you.

Another great example of the river of misery is when you decide to remodel, let’s say, your kitchen, right? You’re in the pond of misery because you’re thinking, “That’s like my kitchen’s outdated and it just could be bigger and could be better. I really want to change the cabinets or the counters or the paint…” or whatever it is.

And you could just stay in that pond forever and that’s fine. You’re creating that misery in the first place, right? We could clean that up. Or you could go through the river of misery where someone’s going to come in and they’re going to rip out your kitchen. It’s going to cost a lot of money. You’re not even going to be able to make spaghetti because you’re not going to have a sink. So you’re going to have to eat out or figure out how that all works for a long time. But on the other side of that is a beautiful new kitchen. Are you willing to go through the river of misery? That’s the question.

Another metaphor I noticed… your golf swing, you have to change what you’ve been doing. And in the short term, your golf game is actually going to suffer because what you’ve been doing has worked to a certain extent. Maybe it’s limiting you in some way. Maybe you have room to improve that swing, but your game is going to get worse as you change that swing until you get the habit of the new swing when your game gets better. I probably am not using the right words, but anyway, there’s a golf metaphor for those of you that like sports.

So I talked about weight loss being a time when we go through the river of misery. Let me give you a few other examples with my clients when I see them in the river of misery. Sometimes I’ll have a client who wants to stop fighting with their husband. They’ll say, “We just fight all the time. We yell at each other. I really don’t like it. It’s really contentious. I feel awful. I want to solve for this.”

And what I teach them is that your husband might still get upset and he might still yell and he might still try to engage in a fight. But if you don’t get upset and yell and argue back, then there is no fight. There’s just one person there who’s angry and upset.

So I coach them through how they’re going to get to that state, how they’re going to be calm, how they’re not going to get upset, but do you know what often they come back and tell me is, “Oh my gosh, that made everything so much worse. Because now, this time when my husband got upset, I didn’t get upset. He was angry and yelling and I was just calm. And he got even more mad. He’s like, ‘What’s the matter with you? You don’t even care about our relationship now.'”

So I tell them, “Yeah, that’s because you’re in the river of misery, right? Your husband is used to the dance that you guys do. And when you stop doing your part of the dance, he’s very confused and upset and he’s making it mean all kinds of things. And that’s actually pretty normal.”

Now, you can say, “Oh my gosh, husband, I love you. I just don’t want to fight anymore and I’m sorry you don’t like it.” And you can explain yourself, but it’s going to be more uncomfortable than just falling back into your old routines and patterns of you getting upset and you and your husband fighting it out. The brain doesn’t like change. The brain likes to rinse and repeat. We’re pretty good at our old patterns. So to break the pattern is very uncomfortable, very challenging. That is the river of misery. On the other side is dry land.

The same effect happens if you want to stop yelling at your kids, right? I’ll talk to my clients about what they’re going to need to think and what they’re going to need to feel in order to not yell the next time. And that’s going to be so much harder than just yelling. Because you know what happens when we yell at our kids sometimes? They finally do what we’ve been asking them to do.

So notice that the yelling, while it’s not something that you want to continue if you’re coming to me with this problem, it’s serving you in some way. So now you’re having to manage your emotions, try to stay calm and patient, and the kids aren’t doing what you wanted them to do. Welcome to the river of misery.

Maybe you want to get up early in the mornings. I was just coaching several people this week who said to me, “I want to get up early. I want to have time to meditate and start my day and have a morning practice, but I just can’t get myself to get out of bed.”

So they’re in the pond right now, right? Where they’re feeling bad. They’re thinking how much more productive and peaceful their day could be and they’re thinking about all those things that they want. But in order to get to that point, they’re going to have to be willing to jump in the river, which is where they’re going to get up out of bed and be cranky and tired and not want to get up and do it anyway. And the brain is not going to like that. The brain’s going to say, “This is silly. We don’t really need to do this anyway.”

I see this with people who want to become a life coach, right, or whatever your goal or dream is. I’m just going to use life coaching because a lot of people tell me, “I really want to do what you do, Jodi. I want to be a life coach.” I’m like, “Awesome, do it.” But then I think we think, oh, that’s going to be so much fun learning to be a life coach. And I do find a lot of it to be fun. But do you know what else happens?

The river of misery happens. Because if you’ve heard people coach before, it probably sounds pretty easy and it looks pretty easy. But then you go through life coach training, or you go to a class, or you start trying to coach someone, you realize, actually, this is really hard. And the brain will start telling you, “Wait a second, maybe I’m not good at this, maybe I can’t do this.” All of that doubt that comes up once we get past the excitement into the reality of understanding what we really don’t know with our goals, that is the river of misery.

I see this in both myself and other entrepreneurs every time we try to scale our business. Right? Your business gets to a certain level and you realize, okay, I got to scale everything in order to grow.

Maybe that means that you raise your prices. Maybe it means that you start hiring staff. For me, it’s a combination of hiring staff and documenting processes and really taking my business from being me as a mostly solopreneur to having a team.

And I never woke up one day and was like, “You know what I want to do? Be an employer, employ people. That sounds like a dream come true.” Now I like being able to employ people, right? But that wasn’t my main objective.

So I’m having to learn a skill set that I’m not as excited about as coaching. I’m having to do things like document processes and things in the business so that I can scale and grow. Not my favorite thing. This is the river of misery. Now I could stay in the pond and just stay where I am and stay stagnant in my business. Nothing wrong with that. My business is doing great. But if I want to set a goal and I want to grow, I have to be willing to get in the river of misery where it’s going to feel worse than just being stagnant.

So I’ve given you tons of examples. I hope this is helping you. I hope that your brain is going to start looking out for like, “Oh, this is the river of misery.” And then what I want you to know is it’s okay. It’s just like having the flu, right? It’s going to last for a little while. I don’t know how long. It depends on what’s creating it.

But if you can be willing to stay in it and wrestle with it, your brain will sift through it. Here’s what I find. We’re not willing to tolerate discomfort for too long. So we’ll either go back to the pond or we will solve for the things creating that river of misery in the first place. We’ll do the thought work, so coaching is so powerful.

If you’re going to go through a river of misery, I highly recommend a coach or at the very least do some self-coaching. But we start solving for what’s creating that pain in the first place, and we adjust to the new normal, things start to settle out again, and you will get back to the emotional state you were in before, but you’ve got to be willing to stay in that river as long as necessary to get there. You got to be willing to feel all of the emotions that come along with it. So much fun, right?

Let’s all do some swimming in the river. I will meet you there. I’m all in for it. I love the person that we become as we’re willing to cross the river. That is really why I’m so passionate about what I do. That’s why I love helping people lose weight or grow a business or get up early in the morning or whatever it is they want to do. It’s not because of the achievement of that thing.

I don’t really care about you weighing any certain amount or having any certain amount of money. That part’s irrelevant, right? It’s the river of misery that I care about. It’s you understanding your brain and overcoming your brain and managing your brain and learning how to feel negative emotion and improving your relationship with yourself. All of those things are required to get through the river of misery. That’s the part I care about. That’s where we evolve as a species and as a society and as a culture. So I’ll see you there. See you in the river.

Thanks for joining me today, you guys. Have a beautiful rest of your week and I’ll see you next time. Bye-bye.

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People say marriage takes work, and I wholeheartedly disagree. My view is that marriage actually doesn’t take much work at all. What truly takes work is growth, but this is work I always recommend regardless of whether you’re married, single, divorced, or any variation thereof.

In this encore episode, I offer real marriage advice for newlyweds in response to a listener who asked for a podcast episode she could send to her newlywed daughter. However, whether you’re engaged, never plan to get married, or have been married a long time, what I’m sharing can be applicable to you, too.

Listen in this week to learn how marriage or any relationship gives you the opportunity to become a more confident and empowered version of yourself. You’ll hear my insights on owning your emotional experiences, tips around your finances, dividing up your responsibilities, and how to develop a healthy intimate relationship.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How only you are responsible for your happiness. * Why it’s unhelpful for you to take ownership of your spouse’s emotions. * How any journey or pursuit of a goal is an amazing vehicle for growth. * The power of owning your experiences. * Tips for creating comfort and respect for each other when it comes to finances in a relationship. * How to develop a healthy intimate physical relationship. * Why, even if it currently feels like it, you aren’t stuck in your relationship.

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Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife
Brooke Castillo

People say that marriage takes work and I disagree, it actually doesn’t take much at all. It takes filling out some paperwork, paying a fee and saying some form of, “I do.” Okay, you might be thinking so, being happily married takes work? Well, getting closer, but this is still not the way I think about it, because you will have times in your marriage likely when you’re happy and your spouse is happy and that happiness comes quite easily.

What truly takes work is using the times when you or your spouse or both are unhappy to grow. Growth takes work, it takes discomfort and then work. But it’s work that I recommend whether you’re married, single, divorced, or any other variation thereof. It’s just that marriage gives us the opportunity to apply the work to become a more confident and more empowered version of ourselves, and that’s what I want to talk about today. Welcome to episode 466, Real Marriage Advice.

What’s up, everybody? Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. I have what I’m going to call an encore episode to share with you today. This is an episode that aired a few years ago that was very popular and I recently went back and listened to it, which I don’t do this often, but on occasion I go back and listen to my old episodes. And it’s actually really fun for me to do because most of what I say in there I have zero recollection of saying and that’s not because it was so magical and mystical. It’s because I have a terrible memory or I don’t know, maybe it’s some of both.

But at any rate, it is kind of fun for me to go back and listen and recognize that, yeah, actually, that was some really good advice. And I think I needed to hear that advice, so thanks past Jody for saying that. So that’s what today’s episode is all about, and I think you’re going to love it. I wanted to air it right now because it’s summer and it’s marriage season. I guess we just had probably a bunch of weddings in the spring. And maybe you’ve got some summer weddings, and we tend to get a lot of fall, I don’t know.

In the LDS Church, let’s be honest, if you’re a member of my church, we have weddings any time there’s a break in the college schedule. So, I hope that you will listen to this whether you’ve been married a very long time or you’ve never been married and you have no sign of getting married that’s okay. You’re going to find really amazing application of this as you navigate any relationship in your life. But especially I recorded this one for the engaged or newlywed couples and I hope you’ll share it with anyone that you think could benefit.

Now, before we dive into the episode, I want to invite you to join me for my latest masterclass. This is a brand new masterclass I created that is called The People Pleasing Detox. If you identify as a people pleaser or you just notice, maybe in certain areas of your life or at certain times you have a tendency to do what you would call people pleasing. Meaning you’re saying yes when you really want to say no or you’re letting yourself get sort of taken advantage of or walked on or you’re just not speaking up in the way that you kind of want to.

I want to invite you to The People Pleasing Detox, where I’m going to teach you why that’s happening. Spoiler alert, nothing wrong with you. And what to do about it to create a better relationship with yourself and to create more authentic relationships with other people. Because when we people please, we are not doing either of those things which have, as I’m sure you know, ripple effects in so many areas of our lives.

So, head to jodymoore.com/masterclass. I will be teaching this class this summer and you won’t want to miss it, it’s a one-time offer. Again, that’s jodymoore.com/masterclass, come and join me for The People Pleasing Detox.

Okay, I got a message on Instagram, a DM from a listener recently who said, “Hey, my daughter just got engaged and I’d love to send she and her fiancé a podcast to listen to, which one do you recommend?” And my first thought was any of them, all of them. There is 369 options so far, pick any one you like, just have them listen, have them learn about their own emotions, their own thoughts, their own mental health, how to be healthier, how to just be a human with a human brain. And be in charge of your brain and not let your brain be in charge of you.

Any of those will help make their marriage better. But I did tell this woman, “Hey, you know, that’s a good idea. Let’s do an episode specific to the advice that I would give to an engaged couple if they were sitting in front of me saying, “What’s the best advice you could give us, Jody Moore, about our marriage?”” So, this is a shout out to that listener and her kids. But I know a lot of you will want to share this with your kids but also it’ll be useful even if you’ve been married for a very long time and you want to refresh.

Or maybe you want to listen with your spouse, maybe you and your spouse want to discuss some of the things you’re going to hear here today especially if you feel like your marriage is struggling lately. So real marriage advice. Now, any marriage advice is real marriage advice of course. But what I want you to know is we’re going to get deep here. I’m not going to just say, don’t go to bed angry. I personally actually think going to bed angry is not a bad idea. I think sometimes emotions settle down after a good night’s sleep and it becomes easier to talk through things.

But these are the things that I think matter and make a difference in your marriage.

Number one. You are not responsible for making each other happy, you’re not. You couldn’t even do that if you wanted to because if your spouse isn’t happy, if he or she in any given moment, or maybe for an extended period of time, is frustrated, worried, anxious, depressed, sad, unhappy etc., that is because of the thoughts that they’re thinking. That is because of what they’re believing. That is because of their interpretation of themselves and the world. And I’m not saying they’re wrong. I’m not saying they’re weak. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong.

For some people it’s extremely challenging and especially in certain circumstances to think in a way that helps you feel more positive. And for some people there are chemical hormonal biological factors making it challenging. And for some people they just don’t have the awareness or the understanding. Or sometimes we just want to feel bad. So as a person who’s about to enter into a marriage or who is married, you have to know in your bones that you are responsible for your own happiness, you are.

Now, this doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t make requests of your spouse. This doesn’t mean you can’t say, “Honey, you know what would be awesome? Is if you could come home from work a half hour earlier and be here to help me get dinner on the table. That would make my life so much easier. Would you be willing to do that?” I’m all for you making any requests you want to of your spouse.

What I’m against is you hanging your emotions on whether or not he or she complies or whether or not they do it in the way that you pictured they would do it. Or whether or not they do it with the attitude you wanted, or whether or not they think to do it without you asking etc. And as soon as you delegate your emotions to someone else you leave yourself powerless. It’s a terrible not fun way to feel and it’s not fun for the other person either. So, you’re responsible for your own happiness. You’re also not responsible for your spouse’s happiness.

Again, this doesn’t mean you wouldn’t want to say, “Honey, I’m so sorry you’re struggling, is there anything I can do to help? I love you. I hope you feel better”, etc. It doesn’t mean you wouldn’t want to reach out and offer help, you will want to, that is a very loving kind thing to do. What it does mean is that you don’t want to cross over into taking ownership. I did this when I was first married.

My husband was struggling to figure out his career path and he felt really bad about not having that figured out. And he was frustrated and overwhelmed with job hunting. And being in some bad jobs and things like that. And I took that on. I thought, oh no, my husband is really struggling, he’s depressed, he’s anxious, he’s overwhelmed, he’s stressed. And then I got depressed, anxious, overwhelmed and stressed about him feeling that way. Because I thought as a good wife it must be my duty to try to help him or at least to feel really terrible right alongside with him.

Isn’t that the loving kind thing to do? No, it’s not. It’s not necessary and it’s not helpful. So, you have to remember, okay, my spouse is on his own personal journey in this lifetime. And sometimes that means he’s going to struggle and I wish I could take it away from him, I would but I really can’t. It doesn’t mean I won’t try at times, I’m going to try, I’m going to do everything I can to help him and support him. But ultimately I have to keep the knowledge that it’s his to own. And that I need to own my emotions.

And especially when my spouse is struggling, what kind of self-care do I need to keep myself feeling how I want to feel, to keep myself mentally and emotionally strong and healthy? I promise you, that’s the best thing you can do for you and your spouse.

Number two. A relationship is an awesome vehicle for your own personal growth. There’s a lot of ways but there’s a handful that I have experienced or I’m aware of in my life that I know are awesome vehicles for growth. And I am all for us participating in things if we feel called to participate in them that help us to grow. And a relationship is one of those things, especially a marriage relationship.

Some of the other things that are awesome vehicles for growth are things like choosing to go on a health journey, maybe it’s a weight loss journey, or a muscle growth journey, or strengthening, or a figuring out a diagnosis. A health journey is an awesome vehicle by which you will have the opportunity to grow. Another one might be just other kinds of career goals that aren’t entrepreneurial. Being a parent, having children of your own is an awesome tool for growth.

Now, here’s the reason I’m telling you this, anything that’s an awesome vehicle for growth is going to be challenging, more challenging than we usually realize when we sign up for that opportunity for growth. It’s going to be difficult. If it wasn’t difficult you wouldn’t grow from it. That is the reason it’s such an awesome vehicle for growth, because it is so difficult at times. You’re going to want to quit. You’re going to want to judge yourself. You’re going to want to judge your spouse. You’re going to think something’s gone wrong.

You’re going to want to feel sorry for yourself. You’re going to compare yourself or your spouse to other people or their marriages. You’re going to be tempted to go down a path of becoming bitter, or feeling sorry for yourself, or resentful. You will have the opportunity to go down that path. You will also have the opportunity to overcome those primitive human tendencies and choose something different, choose curiosity, choose empowerment, choose boundaries, maybe even in some cases, choose to get out of the relationship.

But you can choose to become a victim or you can choose to take ownership of your experience in your marriage. I promise you will get that opportunity. Some of you it will be a more extreme opportunity than others. But being married will give you that opportunity. And good news, if you make a choice that you don’t like, you can always make a different choice. You’re going to have to make this choice over and over again.

So, expect that it will be challenging and it’s worth it because of what you’ll create on the other side of it, which is an extraordinary circumstance of a marriage that didn’t exist before. A partnership between two people as well as who you will become along the way as you create that, as you overcome again, the natural default human tendency of negativity, and blame, and shame. You will become a stronger more Christlike, I think version of yourself. It’s worth it.

Number three. Let’s talk about money. I have some thoughts on money that I want to share with you as a newly married or engaged couple, or again, maybe you’ve been married a long time. If money is a source of contention for you, these are some things I wish someone would have told me when I was engaged to be married. First of all, make sure before you get married you be very upfront with each other about your money situation. Because if you have a lot of debt, whatever kind of debt it is, student loan debt, credit card debt, whatever kind of debt you have.

Your spouse and you will now own that debt together. So, you just want to know what you’re signing up for. Not that it should change your decision but let’s be upfront with it. I promise you that if you have debt and you’re embarrassed about it, and you hide it from your partner, eventually there will probably come a day when you’ll have to divulge it. And the longer you wait, the more anxiety you’re going to create for yourself, the more difficult you’ll make that situation.

So, let’s just get it out of the way right now, let’s just tell each other about any debt that we have and go into this being open and honest. There’s always a way out. There’s always a way to get out of debt. But you’ve got to be honest and own it first. That’s the first thing. The second thing, we all have different comfort levels with how much money we think we should have in our bank account. We all have different buying behaviors.

We all have different things we value, different things that we think are worth splurging on and other things that we think aren’t worth splurging on and we would call a ‘waste of money’. We all have different ideas about how to use money, the wisest way to use money. We all have different levels of scarcity and abundance in terms of our belief in our ability to create value and earn money and that’s okay. You and your spouse are probably not going to have the same ideas or views on any of those areas I just talked about and that’s okay.

So, your job is to work on how you want to think about money, again not that you can’t offer it to your spouse. But he or she gets to choose how they want to think and feel about money. So, I’ve found that the best way to navigate this is that each person in the marriage relationship needs to have some ownership over some of the money. So, the way that works best for my husband and I, and it took us years to decide this. When we first got married we thought we don’t want to have separate accounts because that feels divisive.

My husband, I remember him saying, “Then we have more accounts to have to balance and keep track of, make sure we don’t overdraw on. Let’s just have one account.” That did not work well for us because of what I just described. We have different ideas about how and when to spend money and how much needs to be in the bank account until pay day and just all kinds of reasons why that was problematic for us. What made a huge difference was once we each got our own accounts.

Now, the way we have it set up and I’m not trying to say this is the right way or the best way even, but this is what worked really well for us is that we each have an account but our accounts are linked. We have our main account, we call it our expense account because all of our monthly expenses get paid out of that account, our mortgage payment and our utilities and whatever bills we know are going to come up every month, we have them set up to be paid automatically out of that main account.

And when my husband or I get paid our paycheck, a certain amount of our paycheck that we know will cover all of those bills goes into that account. And we can both see what’s happening in that account. And then we both have our individual accounts where again, they’re all connected. So, I can see my husband’s account at any time, he can see my account. We just both like that, we like the transparency. I’m not trying to hide anything from him. And he’s not trying to hide anything from me.

But we each have accounts that we understand what gets paid out of those accounts and how much money we have that gets put into those accounts every month. So, when we first started doing this years ago my husband and I were both working for corporate. We figured out, okay, these are our expenses, these are our bills, what’s left? It wasn’t as much as I wish but there’s a little bit left over. So, this is how much goes into, we pay our tithing and things like that to our church. But then this is how much we’re going to put into savings.

We didn’t have a lot to put into savings but we were putting just a little bit into savings. And then my account covered the groceries, clothes for the kids, clothes and entertainment for myself, if I wanted to eat lunches out, gas money for my car, all of those things came out of my account. And that’s just because that’s the way we just had it set up. I did the grocery shopping, I bought the kids clothes. That just worked well for us. So, my account was a little bit bigger than his because he wasn’t grocery shopping, he wasn’t buying the kids clothes.

So, his account covered his gas money, his lunches out, if he was going to eat lunch out. Any kind of entertainment, or fun, or anything he might want to buy if he was going to go golfing one day or something. That all had to come out of his account. And we both agreed on, this is how much goes in your account, this is how much goes in my account. That way I can manage that portion of our money to my comfort level. I can manage it the way I choose.

If I decide to buy a pair of shoes, I might have to spend a little less on groceries that month. I might have to get more creative or we might have macaroni cheese one night instead of the nicer dinner I wanted to make. But that was my money to figure out how to manage. And he had his money to figure out how to manage. And once we started doing that everything got so much better for us financially because we could operate within our own comfort levels. We had respect for one another. It wasn’t like I have to ask my husband’s permission to spend money on this thing.

No, you’re an adult, and by the way, it doesn’t matter if only one person in the marriage is working, if only one person is working you still manage your money the same way. In a lot of marriages one person works and one person are at home more with the kids, and taking care of the household more. That’s fine. That still doesn’t mean that it’s one person’s money. It’s both of your money, you’ve just decided to divide up the responsibilities in that way. You’re both responsible for the finances of your life.

I want to say that again. You’re both responsible for making sure that your financial needs are met in your life and in your family. It is not one person’s job, even if you decide, the way we’re going to handle that is you’re going to work, I’m going to stay home. That’s cool. But it’s still both of your responsibility to make sure you’re provided for financially. And it’s both of your money. I didn’t make that up.

That’s what the state says, if you choose to get a divorce, the state’s says going to say, “Half the money goes to this person, half goes to the other person regardless of who went to work and earned it.” So, it’s your responsibility to make sure that you’re taken care of financially. And if your spouse doesn’t want to go make as much money as you want to have in your life then you figure out. You’re going to have to figure it out how to make some money.

Don’t delegate money to one person. Don’t think that it’s one person’s money, it’s just not. That’s just not the truth. Alright, I think that’s all I had to say about money.

Let’s talk about number four, let’s talk about sex, baby. Let’s talk about intimacy, physical intimacy or sex in your marriage. Now, this one is especially challenging for all my listeners who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints because by the time we get married we have little to no sexual experience. And suddenly we’re supposed to get naked and have sex every day, or however often. I remember the first time I discovered Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife. I was already married, well into my marriage, seven or eight years probably.

But I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I wish I would have found her before. She’s pretty lifechanging. I’m sure you are familiar with her, if not, go look up Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife. She’s been on our podcast a couple times. She’s been on a lot of podcasts and you can find her all over the internet. But one thing she said is, “As you’ve been dating you haven’t been very physical. Don’t think that automatically on your wedding night you should have sex. You can but that might not be the natural next step.”

A relationship should progress physically in a slow step by step way. It shouldn’t be nothing one day and then everything the next, that’s not a natural normal way to develop a healthy intimate physical relationship. It should come one step at a time. It should slowly build towards something really, really intimate, like sexual intercourse. So, there’s that but nobody owes each other anything. You do not own each other’s bodies now that you’re married. You’re not entitled to each other’s bodies now that you’re married.

You still both have stewardship over your own body. And you need to understand that about your own body and you need to understand that about your spouse’s body as well. And that a healthy relationship, a healthy intimate physical relationship comes from mutual respect and a sharing of yourself, not a taking what feels like yours. That said, it’s something that you’re just going to have to navigate and figure out and at times it will be awkward and that’s okay. Let it be fun also.

And the other thing I wanted to say about this topic is it’s completely natural and common for there to be a higher desire partner and a lower desire partner. So, if you find that you want sex more often than your spouse or your spouse would like sex more often than you do at some point, that is normal. You can both work through that. Obviously you’re both going to have to compromise a little bit. But don’t think that something’s wrong or oh no, I ended up in this situation, how did I get so unlucky. No, that’s the most common.

It’s much less common for both partners to have just equal sexual desire, equal ideas about frequency. There’s often a higher and a lower. And if you need more help on that later, no shame in getting more help.

Okay, number five. Let’s talk about kids and parenting. If you’re going to have kids, if you’re going to become parents, I recommend again that when you’re engaged, you discuss how many kids you think you want to have. Now, I say how many you think you want to have because some of you are very young listening to this podcast. And maybe you are going to change your mind. And even if you’re not super young, maybe you change your mind, that’s okay. I’m not saying you have to commit to something right now.

And I wouldn’t expect you to expect your fiancé to commit right now because as you grow, and evolve, and life happens, you might change your idea. You might decide you want more kids, or less kids. But I think it’s a good idea to have an understanding of ballpark, what have you pictured? Have you always pictured yourself with a really big family or have you always pictured yourself with one or two kids or a smaller family? That’s a good thing to know about the person that you’re about to marry because that is going to be a joint decision.

Again, just like with money, both of you are responsible for being there and helping raise those kids and take care of the home, all that comes along with having kids and a home. It is both of your responsibility. Now, just like with the money, you might decide that one person is going to own the majority of that responsibility and the other person’s going to own other thigs like going to work. Okay, that’s fine. Ultimately you’re both still responsible for it.

And just like if the person in charge of earning money needs to say, “I need a little help. I can’t do this on my own.” The person raising the kids is also allowed to say, “I need a little help, I can’t do this on my own.” So, if you keep the ownership over all the parts of your home and your life regardless of how you decide to divide up the actual work of it, I promise you will have a much healthier marriage. I promise that you will feel more empowered in your life too.

I don’t know if this is the right word to use in this situation but I’m going to try it anyway. There’s a difference between delegating and abdicating. So, if I’m going to keep the ownership over raising the kids then I’m sort of delegating that part of my responsibility, at least the majority of it during the times I’m working to my spouse. That’s not the same as abdicating. Abdicating is, I don’t even know what’s going on, I’m not interested, that’s your job, that’s not mine. I just sort of shut off my awareness and my ownership of it.

Delegating is like, yeah, that’s a good idea. You take on that part. I’ll take on this part. I think that will work well for now. Let’s try that. That’s true with money, it’s true with the home and the kids. Don’t abdicate your responsibility.

And then the final thing I want to say about being a parent and having kids is that you and your spouse will each have your own relationship with your kids. You will also have a joint relationship. I feel like my husband and I together have a relationship with our kids, there’s us and our kids. And there’s times when we have conversations and we’ve both maybe discussed something ahead of time. We sit down together to talk to our kids about it. So, we have that relationship.

But we also both have our own individual relationships with each of our kids. And they’re not the same and that’s okay. Some of the things that my husband maybe is more strict about, I’m a little more laidback about and vice versa. And it doesn’t mean that you can’t be respectful of one another. There’s times when I say, “Yeah, well, it seems like your dad feels strongly about that so we’re going to go with it for this time.” Or times when I say, “Yeah, well, this is something that I’ve made the decision on and we’re going to go with that.”

You’re going to have to compromise again. But my point is, don’t overstep your bounds, even if you see your spouse have a relationship with your child that you think is negative. Maybe they argue a lot. Maybe you think that they should get along better or they should listen to one another better, or what have you. Again, you can care about it, you can offer suggestions and help but don’t cross the line into taking ownership of it, that doesn’t work for anyone.

Now, again, there are times when I would say if your spouse is abusive to your children, that is a boundary situation. That is a time when you’re going to step in and go, “That’s not okay. It’s not okay for you to treat our kids that way, or talk to our kids that way etc. If you do, this is what I will do to protect them.” That’s different. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about you’re not always going to like the way your spouse parents, you’re just not. You’re going to think that they’re doing it wrong. You’re going to think your way is better.

And that will create problems in your marriage. You have to remember that we all have our own approaches and our own methods and respect that your spouse will have his or her own relationship with the kids as is supposed to be the way.

Okay, number six. I really want you to keep this in mind especially if you’ve been married for a while or as the years go by and the newness and excitement, it’s going to wear off. And there’s still going to be a whole another version of what’s awesome about being married. But keep in mind you are never stuck, you’re not. It’s going to feel like you are possibly, your brain’s going to tell you that you are and I promise that you’re not. I notice a lot of people continue to live their lives in the exact same way day after day, year after year because they think they’re stuck.

They think that because they have responsibilities and they’ve made commitments, that they’re stuck. You’re not stuck. Here’s what I mean. Do you still like living where you live? Because you don’t have to stay there. You don’t have to stay in the same house. You don’t have to stay in the same neighborhood. You don’t have to stay in the same city, or state, or even in the same country. Do you want to mix it up? You don’t have to stay at the same job. You don’t have to even stay in your family. You don’t even have to stay in your marriage. Do you want to? Great.

But don’t be afraid to mix up parts of your life that don’t cause big waves and ripples because if you don’t, at some point you’re going to feel stagnant. And this is what a lot of people call a midlife crisis. But if you’re constantly changing up the little things like I’m going to change up what we eat for dinners. I’m going to change up when we eat dinners. I’m going to change up the furniture in my bedroom. The other day I had this thought, we should change what sides of the bed we sleep on, honey. I didn’t say this to him yet but I might.

Because I seriously have this belief that we need and like change. We don’t always want big change. We don’t want change we weren’t expecting. If we don’t have change at some point, we all of a sudden go, “Oh my gosh, I’m trapped. I’m trapped in this life. I’m trapped in this job. I’m trapped in this family. I’m trapped in this marriage. I’m trapped in this house. It’s normal for your brain to want something new and fresh. So, you’re not ever stuck even if you think you are.

There’s just probably a lot of parts of your life that you want to keep but we have to be willing to mix up other parts to keep things fresh, and exciting, and keep you progressing and growing in life.

Okay, last piece of advice. Your spouse, and this is something I learned from Brooke Castillo that was like it blew my mind when I heard her say it. If your spouse isn’t there to make you happy and they’re not responsible for your money, and they’re not responsible for raising your kids, and they’re not all of these things, then why, and we’re not stuck, if we don’t have to stay then why bother getting married? And here’s what Brooke Castillo teaches that I love so much.

The only reason to get married, well, not the only reason but the main reason is for you to have someone to love. So that you have someone to love. And you know what? Some days it’s going to be easy to love that person and some years it’s going to be easier to love that person. And other days and other years it’s going to be challenging to love that person. But if you choose to love them and you work at loving them, especially when they’re difficult to love, it doesn’t mean you have to be perfect at it. It doesn’t mean you’ll be able to do it all the time.

But if you work at it you will become a version of yourself that I promise you will like so much better, that will take care of you, take care of your goals, take care of your life in the way that you want, that will be the kind of person that you want to be. I promise you this is who you want to be. This is who you already are at your core but you have to overcome a lot of your human tendencies to access that version of you. And when you love your spouse you benefit the most because you get to feel love and you get to be a loving being which is again, who you truly are at your core.

Your spouse will also prefer that you’re loving. They’ll like it better than you being judgmental, or angry, or resentful etc. But I want you to do it for you. I want you to have somebody to love. That is the reason to get married along with whatever you happen to believe religiously, if you have some religious beliefs around getting married. But that’s the reason that drives me. That’s what keeps me loving being married. And I hope it’s easy for you to love them right now but it won’t always be and that’s okay.

Alright, thanks for joining me today you guys, have a beautiful, amazing rest of your week. I’ll see you next time.

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What is it about your space that you tell yourself you’ll eventually get to when you have the time? Why does focusing on your environment even matter? In a world where the DIY revolution is taking over, is it worth doing it all on your own rather than hiring a professional?

Last year, my husband and I almost built a new house, until we realized we just wanted help creating a more refined and put-together aesthetic that worked for our busy family lifestyle. Enter Erin Haskell Gourde, the founder and principal designer of Design for the PPL: a design company that focuses on you, the PPL, and your design needs.

Join us this week as Erin shares her insights on the value of finding a professional who understands and solves your problems, and the impact that design can have on your everyday life. We’re letting you in on my experience working with Erin, how hiring a designer even works, and the unique way Erin serves clients from coast to coast and beyond.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Erin’s thoughts on the value of hiring a professional who can solve your problems. * Where to begin if you’re looking to refresh your space. * Why Erin came up with her Day with a Designer offering. * How Erin helps her clients step back and rethink their spaces. * Erin’s top practical tips for leveraging your space.

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Last year, my husband and I almost built a new house until we realized we loved the house we were in. We just wanted someone to help us make it feel like a new experience, a new phase of life, a more refined and put together aesthetic that would work for our busy family lifestyle and feel like a glow up for our space.

Enter Erin Haskell Gourde. After doing a bit of research online and talking to friends, I discovered that Erin’s company Design for the PPL was responsible for so many of the spaces I loved. I already knew that she had helped both of my brothers with major remodels and designs. But I didn’t realize she was responsible for the interiors of several of the very chic salons in town and she was booked solid with projects all over the country. But I wasn’t looking for a remodel.

I had a budget I wanted to stick to and I was completely intimidated with how hiring a designer even worked. Erin had the perfect solution for me, which we will discuss here today. I took away so many gems from that experience that I asked Erin to come on to the podcast and share some of that brilliance with us. Welcome to episode 465, Design for the PPL with Erin Haskell, Gourde.

Hey there friends. I have a really fun episode for you today. I asked Erin to come on and talk about this topic of interiors. And we’re going to talk about both really practical, functional things you can implement as well as some overall things to think about when it comes to design. And I wanted to throw this episode out because we’re about to dive into Summer of Style in The Lab. And most of that program is going to focus on your own personal style, in terms of your personal aesthetic.

But I wanted to put out this episode on interiors to get you thinking about your space because that’s another really fun and powerful place to apply these concepts. I want you to think about how to make it more functional and of course how to make it more aesthetic as my kids would say.

So, to begin with, here is a bit about Erin. Design for the PPL’s founder and principal designer, Erin Haskell Gourde has always been destined for a career in the arts. A foundation in fashion with exciting work at Stella McCartney’s London studio and Arizona based Luxury Lifestyle Magazine publishing house and creative pursuits of her own, gave Haskell Gourde a base of knowledge and understanding that design and style could be a fulfilling career path and one fit for her unique skill set.

Haskell Gourde’s career trajectory was solidified when she earned her master’s degree in interior design in 2013. She took her interest in interiors and architecture more seriously and began to hone her craft with small projects. Time spent at renowned architecture firms like the iconic Herman Miller were just the start of her postgrad design journey, strengthening her expertise and building her design portfolio.

Full service, interior and architecture design studio, Design for the PPL was built in 2016 upon Haskell Gourde’s foundation of design knowledge, love of people, and of spaces. Her team, contractors, clients and their personalities, coupled with her near psychic ability to look at a space and know instantly what it should become, are her inspiration and magic informing her daily work.

Haskell Gourde works out of Spokane, Washington, offering commercial and residential design up the West Coast, including full design services or her expertise for a single day. Her new Spokane showroom offers lux goods from all over the world, modern and unique furniture, carefully curated decor, art and other nonsense to delight design clients and the public alike. So, who is excited to hear from my designer? I like to claim her as my own. She helped us do our house. Erin Haskell Gourde, let’s take it away.

Jody: So, my thought is really just kind of practical, where do I even begin if I want to uplevel my home? I always kind of like to take the approach of everything I do is through kind of mental, emotional health. So maybe you could speak a little bit to just why is it even important to focus on your surroundings, your environment around you. And also, as your life changes, a lot of my listeners are in the thick of having kids and raising kids. How do I create a home that I think is beautiful, but I have toddlers that destroy everything?

Any kind of those kinds of strategies are really helpful for people, organization, decluttering is a huge problem. Again, I don’t know the answers to these questions. But the things that come to my mind, I remember years ago I even went to something through my church, and then this woman taught a class that was going to be on interiors. And I remember half the class she talked about, listen, it doesn’t matter how nice your art and your decor is if your kids’ crap is all over the place.

She was like, “Every kid gets a basket, put everything in the basket. When it fills up, they need to go put it away.” Just she started with really practical, I was like, “Oh, yeah, that part matters.” And so any of that that you can add and then I would love, we can talk about my experience. I’m certainly happy to talk up how amazing it’s been. And now we’re moving and we’re taking it with us and then we can kind of promote that.

Erin: Also too, I’m happy to help you as a friend, help you place stuff too.

Jody: Yeah. My office down there is a little back office, it’s a little unit behind the house that’s not much bigger than this. And yeah, the house in general, I would definitely FaceTime you and be like, “What do you think?”

Erin: Or we can just do the design in San Diego. I might just come over.

Jody: Ooh, that would be fun. Yeah, we should do that. We’ll fly you down and you just help me and we get everything installed. Yeah, my husband would love that.

Erin: I’m happy to do that. And we can talk about too just I think where to start is a really good one. Because I think that’s a lot of people’s, it’s almost a psychological thing where they’re like, “You know what? That’s something for later. That’s something I’m going to focus on when they are x years old or whatever.” Or sometimes never really because life is busy and they don’t get around to it too. I mean, I think a lot of times, hiring the professional is the way to go.

And in a day as much as glamorous as interior design sounds, it’s really good old fashioned hard work. I mean, that’s really what it is. So, it’s really about hiring those professionals that get a job done for you, take that off your plate. I think we kind of live in a revolution in a world of DIY everything. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with the HGTV shows and a lot of the decor shows that show you how to do it yourself and that’s all great. And sometimes people have those gifts and sometimes they don’t.

And so, it’s really just about time. And so that’s kind of life in general, where do you want to spend your time and how do you want to spend your time? And so, it’s really what you value. And so that’s what I always say is, hire someone that can take this off your plate so you can focus on what you want to focus on. I mean, I do that all the time with hiring professionals.

Yes, you can do it yourself, but it would take you three/four times as long, all the headache and everything else associated with it. So, I think it’s about doing your research and hiring the right person for you and interview them too. I mean just like a therapist, just like a doctor, just like a realtor, just because they are one doesn’t mean it’s a good fit for you. And so, it’s about finding that person that understands your problems because it also in reality, we’re problem solvers. That’s what interior designers’ really main goal is, I want to solve your problems.

And so, functionality first. It’s getting the clutter out. It’s understanding how you live. It’s understanding, hey, when you come home, what do you do? What do you do first? What do you do second? What do you do third? And what could make that process better? Or you get ready in the morning, what do you do? What are the things that you like? What are the things you don’t like? And how can we improve on making your life better?

So that’s the functionality is number one. And then making it beautiful is the second. So, it’s really function first and form second. And so, making it pretty is sort of, in my eyes is the easy part but it’s not easy for everybody else.

Jody: So good designers should be asking you those questions. When you say, “How do you get ready in the morning”, I’m picturing my bathroom right now, that’s got this really cheap spinny thing I got off Amazon that’s full of products and everything because for whatever reason I don’t have a medicine cabinet. And I don’t have space in the drawers. I’m constantly like, “I think I need to buy something to go on the wall.” So, it’s, to your point, function first.

But what I find and I’m just going to put this out there because I know people listening probably are like me, where it feels like I can’t afford to hire the professional. I need to use that money to buy the furniture or the decor or whatever I’m going to buy for my house. But what I’ve found is that when I try to pick it out myself I end up buying it four or five times because I don’t trust myself. I often don’t like what I picked out. I’m not considering things that somebody who is a professional is considering. And in the end I waste money on the stuff instead of just spending it in the first place on a professional.

Erin: And I’ll say two things to that. Number one, yes, you’re absolutely right, but think about, are you really good at returns? I mean, sometimes I have things that I don’t return for months. And then you kind of forget about it because you’re busy, so there’s that. But also, the big thing is even if you are really good at picking things out for your home, you only know what you know. The thing about us professionals is, I mean, luckily we do have a store and so we carry products from all around the world, but you don’t have access to that.

The average person doesn’t, and they don’t know the brands, and so all you know is the retailers that you know. When people say, “I got this at HomeGoods or I got this at Pottery Barn.” And they’re kind of embarrassed and I say, “Why would you be embarrassed? It’s what you know. It’s what you’re exposed to.” So, let us help you, because there is a whole world, worlds even out there that you have no idea. And that’s where we can come in and say, “Okay, this would look amazing here or this would solve your problem here.” And you don’t even know that solution.

Jody: That’s so good. If somebody’s like, “I just want to update my home. I just want to begin somewhere.” Where do you recommend Erin, that people begin?

Erin: Yeah. Well, it’s funny you say that because I have my master’s in interior design, and so we’re really architects. I do exteriors and interiors. But what I found was when I worked at a lot of these big architecture firms before I started my own design studio was that they would create this beautiful house. And then I’m talking, when I say that, I’m talking materials, flooring, lighting and the flow is nice, but they wouldn’t help them with that final step of the furniture and the decor. And I just felt like it was such a misstep.

It’s amazing how someone or people can sort of ruin, if you will, I don’t mean to sound harsh, but this beautiful interior with the wrong furniture and the wrong decor. That’s really why (a) I decided to start my own studio but (b) also started Design for the PPL store. And so, what I would say to that is décor and furniture really does matter. But if you’re wanting to start somewhere, I think that art is really important.

I think that anything large scale art that can really fill a wall, I mean that’s super important. And I think storage is a big thing too. It’s about finding solutions that work for you. So, a lot of people with kids, they have a lot of stuff. They have a lot of toys. And okay, well, where do you put that? And so, it’s finding the right solutions because anyone can go purchase a bin. But then it’s, well, do you want that bin to be a part of your furniture and decor? I mean, I don’t know, it depends what bin we’re talking about.

But I think it’s about finding the storage solutions that make it easy for you to want to put that stuff away. I want to use that cabinet. Especially with families, we kind of pick out cabinets for all of the kids and then sometimes even for the adults, this is your domain, this is your place. Time to clean up and they know what to do so it’s about starting. Design can even have a big impact on your everyday ways of life. It’s amazing in that respect of just even a cabinet but the right cabinet can make you feel better because people are wanting to put away their stuff.

Jody: Yeah, that’s good. Do you find with your clients in general, I mean, my thought is we all have way too much stuff. I mean, I realize you’re not in there judging that. But in general, what I find is that the more I get rid of stuff, the more I like my house. Of course, because you go into a model home or something or a parade of homes or whatever and I’m always like, “Yeah, this is awesome because there’s nothing in here that people actually need to live with.”

Erin: So, I mean, it’s about finding that balance. I love that Marie Kondo method. I just love it.

Jody: Yeah, I’ve read her book, yeah, it’s great.

Erin: Yeah, and sometimes that works for people, and sometimes it doesn’t. Being practical with the family, I mean, that’s why honestly I called my studio Design for the PPL, because it matters on the people involved. So, I go in, I’m not designing for Erin, it’s really understanding how they live and what is important to them and then coming up with that solution. Does that make sense?

Jody: Yeah. And that’s one of the things I love about your work. Not only functionally are you considering people, but I feel like even I know when Jake and I first met with you, you were kind of asking us what is our style and we’re like, “We don’t know.” But we pulled up a few pictures. You’re like, “Okay, this is your style.” And I do notice that some designers seem to have their style.

And then there’s designers like you, who are designing for your clients’ style, which I think it’s fun because then your work is also unique. I can see similarities, you did my brother’s kitchen and the salon where I get my hair done. And sometimes I’m like, “Oh yeah, I recognize that. I recognize that.” But you still are considering your client.

Erin: You’re tailoring it to the client.

Jody: Yeah. And I think that for most of us, we don’t even know what our style is and we don’t know what we like until we see it. So that’s where having a designer come in, I just think is so amazing.

Erin: I agree.

Jody: I know we’re going about this in totally a different order than normally we would do a podcast interview, but that’s how I like to roll. I wanted to just get a little bit more of your background because you mentioned that you worked at an architectural firm. How did you get into this? Have you always been passionate about this topic?

Erin: Yes. I think it’s one of those things where I mean, I don’t know if you talk about gifts that people have. But I think when you grow up and you just instantly know things and you think everyone else knows them too and they don’t.

Jody: Yeah. And you’re like, “Why do you not know this?”

Erin: I would always walk into a room even when I was young, elementary school, high school or I’d see a construction project. And I saw the before and I’d see the after. And I’m like, “Gosh. I wouldn’t have done that. I would have done this or that or they should really do this, and if they changed this wall.” And I just kind of thought everyone thought that. And I would always be the one who saved up my money and went and bought new bedding and new decor for my room, I mean that’s kind of it.

Jody: I love it.

Erin: But I would say, I went to college, University of Arizona. I would say I wasn’t really, truly focused on my studies at that time of my life to be honest. I think I was more focused on designer handbags and chasing boys and whatever. But I was in the publishing industry. I worked for a publishing company and so I got to know a lot of these architects and designers. And I think you just kind of have that time in your life where you’re like, “I think I need to change some things. I think I need to do it.”

So, I went back to school because it’s one of those things where you have to go to school. I mean, you have to have, in my opinion, you have to learn to draw. You have to understand the elements and principles of design and you need to understand the history, at least I did. And so that’s when I went back and I got my master’s in interior design. And then I started working in internships from day one. And so, I mean, back in the day, interns were essentially free. I’m not sure how interns work now, but yeah, if you were willing to work, and I was, they would hire you.

So, you just got to know a lot also about the business side of it, too. There’s some interior designers that struggle with that. It’s left brain and right brain. You have to have both when you’re a designer. You have to have both when you’re an architect. So, I would say I’m better at the right brain. I mean, I think we all have our strengths. But the left brain is important, and luckily I’ve gotten better at that as the years have gone on. So that was 14 years ago. So I’ve been at this for 14 years and then I decided to start my own studio seven years ago, that was just more like, let’s do it and then I started.

Jody: Are you glad you did it?

Erin: Oh, yeah, I mean totally. But there were some times where, at one point I had 57 projects I was working on. I would work day and night and all weekends and I’m just like, “Someday this is going to pay off. I don’t know when, but someday it will.” And then as times go by, I always tell designers, you have to make the mistakes. Learn what you can handle and what you can’t handle. I mean, you’re in the business with people. So, it’s a service, and you have to understand who you work well with as a client and who you wouldn’t work well with as a client and that’s okay.

Everyone shouldn’t be for everyone. There’s only so much school can teach you. Practical real life experience is so necessary. And so, you’ve got to start somewhere and you’ve just got to go for it. But yeah, you just learn along the way. And then I was lucky enough to start my own store. And that was really nice because it was just a way to house all the products and save them for clients.

And then have a big install team to be able to install all of the furniture and the decor which is an aspect that many people want and a lot of designers don’t know how to deliver that. Because you need a team to do it and you need space to do it. And so that was really exciting for me just because I love products and I love product design. And so, I’ve been really lucky to have that other side to the business as well.

Jody: You’re honestly the first designer I’ve ever formally hired and worked with. And in my mind, interior design is for really rich people.

Erin: Sure. Especially on the West Coast.

Jody: Really? It’s more common on the East Coast.

Erin: The East Coast, it doesn’t really matter where you are.

Jody: That’s interesting.

Erin: It’s just people hire interior designers. It’s just what you do, no matter how much money you make. I’ve just found that. But it definitely has, you’re right, this mentality of extra luxury.

Jody: Yeah, I always thought it was luxury. I can’t afford that. Or even as I started making a little more money and I was like, “I would like to put some money into the interior of my house.” I still felt really intimidated because I was just like, “I don’t even know how it works, I don’t know.” And I get everybody has their own process and everything. But the way that you set it up was a real win for us, especially the first time we ever worked with a designer. It was doable budget wise.

And it was the kind of process that we needed that we could be involved as little or as much as we wanted. I think we should talk about this Day with A Designer that you offer. Tell me why you created it. Who is it for? How does it work? And I want to speak to my experience as we go.

Erin: That’s a brilliant question because I certainly didn’t come up, or I should say, when I opened the store, that wasn’t something that I thought of right away. It evolved with me. And it’s made a lot of sense and people love it. But I will say, when I first opened the store, I thought people would come in and love a product and purchase it and then put it in their home, or they’d buy an art piece and some decor. And I love that, I’m going to put it in my home and that was not the case.

And what I realized is that people, it wasn’t about the money price wise because we do like to have a variety of higher price point, lower price point. I think that’s important because you don’t need to have ultra, ultra luxury for everything. I mean some things are great, this is worth it. But hey, let’s rein it in over here. But what I realized was that people did not trust themselves [crosstalk] they just didn’t. They’re like, “I just love everything in here. I don’t know where to start.” And they get overwhelmed.

Because a lot of people don’t want to get rid of everything they have, some people do. People are purchasing that second or third home, they have nothing and we come in and do it up for them and that’s great. But the majority of people, they want to keep some of their items that they have, whether it be dining table, sofa, whatever. And then incorporate some new things and how do you make that work? So that was the big question.

So that’s why I started Day with A Designer, because what I wanted to say is, “Get out of your house, move out and just let me do it.” And so, because I found that when we did our large projects, at install day, if I just brought in one thing or a new sofa, it just doesn’t work. They’re fixating on it. They’re like, “I don’t know.” They like it. You’ve got to hold on. It’s a holistic approach. It’s all about everything, all together.

So that was how I started it. That’s how I started the Day with A Designer. And I felt like it’s something that everybody really wants. They want someone to come in and have it done for them. They really want that magazine cover and they’re like, “How do I get there? That’s what I want.”

Jody: That’s what we liked about it was, it was, okay, we’re going to pay you this design fee and then we’re going to give you a budget and talk about what we’re going to do overall. But then we took all of our kids and we left. We went to stay the night at my sister’s house, and I was like, “Two days, kids, we’re not going home so pack a bag.” We just got out of there so that you guys could come in and set everything up and do your thing.

And then when we came back, it’s like that HGTV experience, where you walk in. We weren’t taking out walls and we didn’t do anything, it was just décor. And a lot of the decor we had talked about before, we approved furniture because we’re going to be paying for that obviously. But the way you put it all together was just beautiful. And then I don’t know if you still do it this way, but the way it worked for us was, and my husband and I agreed ahead of time because you told us, “We’re going to set everything up and then anything you don’t want, you’ll just pull down and we’ll come and pick it up and then we’ll send you the bill for whatever’s left.”

So, Jake and I decided, okay, this is the budget that we’ve set aside to spend on this. And we’re not going to look at price tags on things because you guys left the price tags on everything because we had to decide. And we both agreed, we’re not going to pick every single thing up and go, “This is that much, what?” This is inexpensive.” If it’s within our budget and we love it, we keep it. If we don’t love it, we swap it out.

So that was a really good strategy for us because even now we’re getting ready to move and I’m packing stuff and there are things that I never took the price tags off of. And I’m going through and I’m kind of surprised that that was that expensive. And surprised that this was that inexpensive, but I’m so glad I didn’t look at that because like you said, it’s the overall what you created. And it was just so exciting to be able to come home and feel like you have this whole new, and it’s fun for us and for the kids.

And anyway, we did it with our main floor living area and my office and a little bit upstairs too. But I would assume you have people with different scopes of how much work you’re doing.

Erin: That’s really the best part. I mean, so it’s a flat fee and you can do one room, you can do your entire house. It does not matter.

Jody: Wow.

Erin: Yeah, it doesn’t matter. And so that’s really exciting for people. We do it locally here in Spokane, Washington and North Idaho but we do them all over the country. I mean, we just got done with doing one in LA. We did one in Boston. We do a lot in Arizona. We’ve done a lot in Utah. So, we’ll go anywhere. So, it’s one flat design fee. And then what we do is we do come out to your house because I think that’s super important just to understand. I mean pictures and measurements of course they help.

But it’s really important for me and my team to get to know you guys and understand the way you live and the way you want to live better. Yeah, what is your style? And also, what do you have? I mean those are, what are the things that you really want to keep, whatever that may be. It’s different for everybody. So that’s really important to know as a base. And what we do is we present to you, really exactly what we would do.

A lot of that can be done over Zoom once we have seen those items especially for what we call the remote day with a designer. And then we talk about what we would do and we show you visuals and we show you actual products. And we do have you commit to the larger items that we need to order. But I don’t talk necessarily about the art or the decor. I mean, if you want to, we can, but it’s just sort of a waste of time.

Jody: I kind of liked it just being a surprise.

Erin: We also, we work with the decor that you have too. And really it’s funny because obviously it’s way more than a day at work. It’s called Day with A Designer, but it’s much more work on the day. The actual day is the install. That’s when we bring out our whole install team. We’ve become really good at it. We’ve been doing it for four years and honestly, we love doing them too. I mean, sometimes we know what it’s going to look like in our minds, but it looks even better once we’re there, done. And we have our processes down.

And before that, we kind of send you some, not necessarily rules but what to expect. That’s where we ask our clients to use the pile method of say, “This is decor you should use. I definitely want to use this. This is decor if you want to use it, great, maybe not.” And so, then we know what you really want. And so, we kind of recycle it in a way that maybe the thought of using that one piece in a different area, so it’s fun too. It’s like, oh, my gosh, I would have never thought about putting that there, and they don’t.

So that’s what’s fun is incorporating even some family heirlooms with some different items. But it’s really amazing for the people who want a refresh and it’s not about construction, that’s the whole, we definitely do that, but that’s not what this is. And it’s funny because sometimes they think they need construction, and it’s, no, you just need some new fresh air. You need some furniture pieces that really work and speak to your style. And then what’s so awesome is when you’re moving you can take it with you.

I mean, hopefully you get, if you were to sell your house and I mean the goal would be to get out of it what you put into it but sometimes that doesn’t happen.

Jody: Yeah, and we’re really happy with the investment that we put in with you. We’re taking it all with us to our new house, so we don’t feel like we put in a lot of time or money that we don’t get to enjoy. Even if we did recoup the money, I want to be able to enjoy this in my next house. So, it was a really fun experience for us. I highly recommend it.

Erin: We love doing it and clients love it too. They get to have the final finished product. I think where it really differs is people will look online and shop online and a package will come to them and they have to undo the package. And it’s this big thing and they have to lift the thing and they get the friends to lift the thing and put it in the room. They’re not really sure. That’s not fun for anyone.

Jody: A lot of my clients are feeling crammed in their house. You start having more kids and you just kind of try to accommodate it. And one of the things I really appreciated and maybe you can give some people some tips of how they can think about this. Because one of the things I appreciated is when you came and did the walk through of our house before we started anything, just to kind of check out the space and what are we doing here, is you immediately were able to identify things. Well, you have this formal dining room and then you have a table in the kitchen. Do you really need two spaces to eat?

Because this space you could use in this other way, which it hadn’t even crossed our minds that we could use that room for something different than what the builder intended it for. And because we had a piano crammed in the corner. You’re like, “You could put the piano in here.” Anyway, just stepping back and rethinking your space. And also, there were certain areas where you said things like, “You could fit a big table there.” And in my mind I was like, no, we can’t, that’s too small and of course, you were right.

The amount of furniture that you wanted to put in my office, I thought there’s no way that’s going to fit, but it totally fits really nicely and it looks beautiful and it doesn’t feel crowded. So just space utilization for those of us that aren’t trained in this stuff, which is everybody. And all we know to do is shove a cabinet up against the wall and the sofa against the other wall. How can people sort of reassess the space that they’re in to better leverage it? And are there any practical tips you can give those of us that aren’t trained in this?

Erin: You mean without our help?

Jody: Yeah, I mean, to hire a designer obviously, but in the short term?

Erin: Yeah. So, I’ll answer that in a couple pf ways. One is yes, when we do the Day with A Designer, you get our design team to come in and we speak very freely.

Jody: That’s what I love about you, you’re so honest.

Erin: Well, yes, I try to do that, because you’re hiring me. And so, wouldn’t you want to know that? I mean I would, yeah.

Jody: I do, yeah. It’s natural for you.

Erin: My only gift, yeah. So just looking at spaces, I think it’s always about, for what you were saying, again, it’s how do you normally live? Are you even utilizing all of your rooms in your house? I think that’s a question and a lot of times the answer’s no.

Jody: For me, if you were to ask me that, I would have been like, “Yes.” But what I realized is that the way we were utilizing the dining room table was just to dump boxes and junk that we didn’t know where else to put. So, were we really using it in a useful way? No. But in my mind, of course, we’re using every space anyway, it’s just, yeah, it’s interesting.

Erin: And thinking about too, I think it’s just challenging yourself. I think that’s the biggest takeaway. Challenging yourself of, you’re utilizing these rooms, but are they the best they could be? You’re using that table to house a bunch of stuff on it. Is that really a good use of space? Probably not. I think it’s challenging and then I mean, knowing spatial stuff, like I said, I’ve been doing this for so long, I can just kind of know. I can look at something and I’m like, “That’s 48 inches, that’s 52.” I mean I might surprise myself along the way.

Jody: I know, you’re good at that.

Erin: Practical things to think about, this is a really good example. We just did a Day with A Designer where they wanted to have a table in their kitchen. And they also had a formal dining room space and they wanted to keep both. Both was important to them, so I think that’s great. They didn’t have a lot of spatial room though in their kitchen. And while they had the ‘room’ dimension wise, it was going to feel really heavy. And it was going to feel maybe a little cluttered.

So, what we decided to do was a glass table. This is a glass table, it’s see through. So even though the functionality is there, it doesn’t look so heavy. That was a really good solution to their problem. So, it’s thinking about things like that too, even, I’m looking at the back of you with your glass cabinet. It might look very different if they weren’t glass. If they were heavy and they were a dark color and so it’s thinking about scale and the material and the color, it’s that all in line too.

Jody: I just love you. I appreciate your work. I think that you’re so amazing. I remember when I first found you, too, I was like, “She is very cool. And I didn’t know there were cool people like that in Spokane.” But it turns out there are actually a lot of cool people here.

Erin: Well, I always say the airport’s only 15 minutes away, so we love to travel. There’s people who don’t love to travel for their jobs, and I get it. It’s tough on the body and there’s a lot of logistics you need to figure out. But for me, I really enjoy it. And so, you get to see the world and you get to meet different people and so we love it. But it’s nice to have a home base here that isn’t so chaotic and doesn’t [crosstalk].

Jody: Yeah, that’s true.

Erin: For us it works well. People ask me all the time, “Are you going to move to a bigger city?” And you can’t predict the future, but for now we like having this as a home base and being able to go. We’re wanted and hired by our clients. So that’s what I would say.

Jody: I love it. So, if people want to hire you or learn more about working with you, let’s tell them where to find you. Obviously Day with A Designer might be really of interest to people. But even also where to shop in your online store because you have some really amazing unique stuff there.

Erin: Thank you.

Jody: Where do people find you?

Erin: Designefortheppl.com. So that’s designfortheppl.com. And we’re also on Instagram @designforthePPL. So yeah, find us there, online is the best way. And you can contact us right on our website, say that you’re interested in Day with A Designer. And what we do is we set up a 15 minute consultation and we want to make sure it’s the right fit for you too.

Jody: Yeah. I love it. Thank you, Erin. Thank you for coming on today.

Erin: You’re welcome and good luck with your move.

Jody: Thank you.

Erin: I’ll look forward to FaceTiming you.

Jody: I can’t wait.

Erin: Maybe coming in person.

Jody: I know. I like that idea.

Erin: And get some more sunshine.

Jody: Yeah, you should consider moving to San Diego, it’s pretty nice, just saying.

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The post 465. Design for the PPL with Erin Haskell Gourde appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Welcome to today’s episode where I’m diving into a question straight from one of you all about perseverance. It’s a dilemma I bet we’ve all faced at some point: setting a goal, feeling super motivated, but inevitably hitting a wall of deflation. Ever been there? Whether it’s sticking to a diet, managing finances, or chasing any other dream, it’s like riding an emotional rollercoaster – lots of ups and downs.

But why does this happen? Our brains are wired for survival, always chasing pleasure, dodging pain, and conserving energy. It’s like our ancient programming hasn’t quite caught up to the complexities of modern life. It’s no wonder we often find ourselves sabotaging our own efforts!

Join me this week to learn how to decipher the true motivations behind your goals, take meaningful baby steps toward progress, and break free from the shackles of all-or-nothing thinking. Discover the power of accountability, learn to reframe setbacks as opportunities for growth, and embrace the concept of progress over perfection.

If you’re serious about succeeding in your coaching business, you want to join our newest program, The Lab: Coach Access. To celebrate our 10th birthday, sign up during May to get it at a discounted price of $125 a month. Click here to find out more!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why our brains are wired for short-term gratification and how this impacts our ability to persevere through challenges. * Techniques to uncover the underlying reasons driving your goals and align them with sustainable growth. * The power of small, consistent actions in achieving long-term success. * How to avoid the pitfalls of overcommitment. * Strategies to overcome the urge to give up entirely when faced with setbacks. * How to hold yourself accountable with compassion.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
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We’ve all had the experience of being really excited about a goal or a habit we want to start or stop. We’re committed and motivated and we follow through really well for a couple of weeks at the most, and then we ‘fall off the wagon’. I have really good news for you today. There is no wagon. There is just your human brain doing what healthy human brains do. Today we’re going to talk through why this pattern is so common. And of course, what you can do to compensate for it in order to create the life you desire. Are you ready? This is episode 464, Perseverance. Here we go.

Hello, everybody, welcome to this episode. Today’s episode comes from one of the questions I got from one of you through our phone in Ask Jody Anything hotline. So, if you have a question you want to send me, the number is 1-888-HI-JODY-M. And you’re welcome to send me a question. In just a minute I’m going to play that question for you and I want to thank the person that sent it in.

First, I want to just talk to all of you who are in The Lab with me. The Lab is where we take the work here on this podcast, and we apply it to actually make our lives exponentially better. I hope you’re doing that kind of application just listening to the podcast. But if you ever want to come and join us in The Lab, I promise you, you will get 10X the results that you’re getting by just listening to the podcast.

So, for those of you in The Lab I just wanted to give you a little preview as to what’s coming this summer. Summer is, for many of us, kind of a time when we’re off of our usual schedule, maybe you have kids home from school or maybe something changes about your job. Maybe you just want to be able to travel more or have a little more leisurely time, a little more daylight and sunshine.

And so, we kind of wanted to mix things up a little bit in The Lab for summer and do a really fun, I don’t know, we’re going to do summer of style. So rather than do kind of what is sometimes some of the more heavy lifting work that we need to do on our own brains and our own just self-image and our relationships and our money. And some of those things that’s important that we want to do but it can feel like heavy lifting. We’re going to do something really light and fun, summer of style.

Now, here’s the beautiful thing. As we start diving in, I’m going to teach this in a totally different way than you’ve ever been taught about style before. We’re going to do it in the months of June and July because I’m teaching at the end of June, so you’ll probably implement most of it in July. We’re going to do, prepare your closet. So, we’re going to do a little bit of decluttering, but again, in a totally different way than you’ve probably been taught to declutter before.

And that’s going to allow us to get inside your head and take a look at some of the thoughts and beliefs and stories that are keeping your closet and your life more cluttery than maybe what you want. Then in July, we’re going to move into defining your style. I want you to understand what personal style is and how to choose it with more intention. How to discover what you like, not just what you like for yourself and your style, not just what you appreciate when you take a look around outside of you.

And then finally in August, we’re going to do shopping with intention. This is something I have had to work on a lot in my life, not just shopping to try to escape my life or because I need a hit of dopamine in some way, but actually shopping with intention. And we’re going to be doing some giveaways. I’m going to have discounts and gift cards to give away. And I’m going to be sharing all my favorite stuff that I like to buy for my style personally and it’s going to be a lot of fun.

So don’t miss summer of style in The Lab. If you want to join us, you can head to jodymoore.com/thelab. And you can just join us for summer of style if you want, if that’s all you want to do. That’s the great thing about The Lab, you can come and go as you please. Okay, so to kick things off here, let’s go ahead and listen to the question that somebody left me, that is the topic of today’s episode.

Hi Jody. I have a question about perseverance. I have listened to a lot of your podcasts and I love them and I feel like they’re so motivating and have really changed my life for the better. I keep coming back to the same issue I’ve been having with being able to stick to something and to persevere when it gets hard. For example, budgeting and dieting and really any goal I set, I come up with a plan and I’m motivated and I’m excited. And I start it and I do really well for a week or two.

And then it’s almost like this self-destructive button gets pushed and I get tired and I’m worn out. And I think, oh, this is too hard. Is it really worth it? And it’s just this cycle where I fall off all of the goals and things that I have set. After a little while I realize okay, what am I doing? This isn’t helping. And then I restart and I set more goals and want to stick to a budget and want to be healthy and fit and do really well for a couple of weeks and then life happens.

My kids wake up early so that I’m not able to work out or I end up splurging and I ruin our budget and I just get deflated and then it’s hard to stick to it. And I’m just wondering if there are any skills or principles that you would share that could help when we get to those points in our lives, that can help me persevere and just push through it and stick to what I set to improve myself? I feel like I’m just constantly restarting and I’m not making the progress I’d like to make. Thank you so much and I really enjoy listening to all your podcasts.

Good question. Can you relate to this? Do you have this same question? I can certainly relate to this. Okay, so before I dive in and answer what are my suggestions, it’s important that we understand why this happens, because that’s going to give you a lot of leverage over yourself, just understanding why. So, remember, our brains are amazing, complicated brains have lots of functions, but at its core, it’s most important job, the job that will override any other job if necessary is to keep us alive.

And keeping us alive to the brain looks like trying to achieve three goals. In no particular order, the three goals are, one, seek pleasure, two, avoid pain and three, save energy. So, when I say pleasure, pain and energy, we’re talking about physical and mental or emotional. So, our brains seek pleasure because traditionally, if we think about basic primal survival, when we think about before we had modern society and all the conveniences and luxuries that we have today, things that were pleasurable were good for our survival.

In other words, staying with a tribe and feeling connected and feeling warm but not too hot. Regulating our body temperature is pleasurable. Eating certain foods, like fruit and meat that hasn’t gone bad, and vegetables, those things taste good, good for our overall survival. Avoiding pain also was a really useful way for the brain to keep us alive, because if there’s some bushes that have lots of thorns and I run through them and get cut. That’s not good for my overall survival and it hurts. And so, I try to avoid that.

Emotional pain as well, being embarrassed, being rejected. All of that is traditionally historically not good for my survival. We need a tribe to survive. Still not really good for us to be rejected by a tribe. But anyway, our world today is very different than it was when human beings first had to navigate the world. So, I just want to be clear, I’m not saying all pleasure is good for us and will keep us alive and all pain is bad for us and will lead to our demise in some way. That’s not true at all actually, there’s plenty of pleasure that’s terrible for us.

And there’s a lot of pain that can be good for us when approached in the right way. I’m just saying that’s what the brain thinks. The brain thinks, pleasure good, pain bad, and then again saving energy. So, anything that feels too hard, too exhausting, both physically and mentally and emotionally, our brains want to try to avoid. Because our brains think we should save up our energy just in case of some kind of emergency or crisis that we need to be able to get out of or survive in order to not die.

So, this is important to know because this is why we self-sabotage. This motivational triad is really powerful and we can override it temporarily but at some point it kicks in and takes charge. And the worst thing you can do to get yourself back on track is start judging yourself for it, to feel ashamed, to feel bad, to tell yourself that you’re never going to be able to change the way you want to or what’s the matter with you? The answer is nothing is the matter with you. So that’s step one. I just want to bring some awareness to it.

So, the truth is, we’re not going to get rid of this part of us, and it wouldn’t even be healthy to do so. We’re always going to have to manage the delicate balance between the primitive brain that cares about short term pleasure, pain and energy levels. And the prefrontal part of the brain that understands that foregoing some pleasure and enduring some pain and spending some energy can create our best life in the long run, even though it will feel the opposite of what we want in the short run.

We’re always going to have to navigate the balance between those two things, which I think is kind of a cool thing. It’s tough to do, but I like that it’s tough. I like what it requires of us because I think one of the things it requires the most, in my experience of coaching tens of thousands of people, is that it requires that you learn to be compassionate with yourself. Requires that you let go of perfectionism. It requires that you let go of pride and shame. It requires that you be patient, that you can celebrate baby steps.

It requires so many things that are overall really good for us and I think actually make us more like God which is the whole point of being here. Patience, perseverance, kindness, compassion, all of those things are God like qualities to me. And in order to balance those two parts of the brain and achieve what we want, we have to develop those attributes.

So, I want to give you five things to think about today when it comes to perseverance of how to balance these two things and how to move forward. The first one is that I want you to be paying attention at all times to your why. So, in this question, the woman who wrote in or who called in, excuse me, talked about budgeting and dieting. Those were the two examples she gave. So I’m going to refer to those two examples. But you apply these to whatever you want to.

Let’s talk about budgeting, for example, why might we want to follow a budget? Well, there can be lots of great reasons, but there can actually be some reasons that may not serve you and this is personal. I wish I could just give you a list of, these are good reasons, these are bad reasons. I am going to give you some suggestions to consider, but the truth is they’re personal. Sometimes I notice that I’m actually kind of unusual when it comes to reasons that are useful for me that create feelings of self-compassion and acceptance and abundance. They don’t place you above or below anyone else.

I feel like the most useful reasons are almost not very exciting. Dan Sullivan, I might have talked about this before, but Dan Sullivan has a book called Wanting What you Want. And he talks about this, if you just want it just because you want it, that’s actually the best reason. If you don’t have to justify it with a bunch of things then that’s probably your most pure, just desire. It’s almost like I can’t even describe why I want it. I just want it.

I can’t tell you why I am 5’ 4, I just am 5’ 4. It’s how God created me. It’s how my body just is. Other than maybe my posture or something, I don’t really have much to do with it. And I don’t know if that’s true, if all of our desires we learn from each other, or if there’s pure intrinsic desire. But for me, just thinking of it as I just want this because I want it, can be useful.

Now, it doesn’t have to be that. It can also be, I want to feel more in control of my money. I want to have a healthier relationship with money. I want to not be scared of money. I want to not feel like money is controlling my life. I want to get into a more abundant, more generous, more healthy ‘relationship’ with money. All of those for most people are going to be really useful reasons. What are not going to be great reasons are things like, then I’ll finally be able to feel confident that I’m going to be okay.

Now, I did say that working on your budget, one of the healthy reasons I just named was getting into abundance. But let me back up and correct myself. I want you to get into abundance while you work on budgeting. That’s the best way. I guess what I’m saying is if your reason is coming from abundance, for example, there is plenty of money, there are plenty of resources.

Or maybe for me, abundance often sounds like I am capable of getting the things that I need and creating what I need and want in my life. And I don’t have to take anything from other people to create it. And I don’t have to sacrifice and be unhappy. I don’t have to miss out on some part of life in order to create what I want. So, notice that is kind of an abundant mindset. And that can be true when I have a lot of money and it can be true when I have little to no money or a lot of debt. Did you know this? This can be true either way. So, this is why I say examine your why.

And the second component of examining your why is to not be in a rush. Because if I’m in a rush, if I’m impatient with it, if I need to solve this right away, it means that I’m not doing the work of becoming what it is that I ultimately think I’m going to have once I achieve this goal or change this habit. I’m not doing that work along the way.

I’m believing that I have to wait to change something more significant in myself or my world before I can have what I want, which is the feelings of peace, feelings of joy, feelings of happiness, feelings of confidence. All of the feelings that we want to have are available to us right now. And as we try to take action and change things in the world, we want to try to access those feelings. Are you with me? That’s the best way to change it.

And the good news is that it means then you get the reward of feeling how you want to feel before you even get to the finish line. So, any time I’m in a rush and I’m feeling impatient with it, I stop and go, “Wait a second. This hurry that I’m in is because I’m believing once I get to this certain spot then it will be better there and I want to feel better. So let me just pause and remind myself, I can feel better right now.” And that is my work to do because that is the way to get there. Do you follow me?

So that’s the first thing you have to keep in mind. This is all thought work. This is all happening in your head. This is where I can help you through coaching if you want some guidance and some help on how to get there. But it’s examining your why and making sure you’re not in a rush, doing the work as you go.

Okay, second thing, baby steps. I know we don’t, none of us want to hear this. We’re so sick of people saying, “Just be willing to take baby steps and let it take time and celebrate your baby steps.” But that is the way to truly create change. What we tend to do is we under-promise and over-deliver to other people and we overpromise and under-deliver to ourselves. And I want you to under-promise and over-deliver to other people and to yourself.

Here’s what I mean. If I tell my friend I’m going to meet you every morning for a walk at 5:00am, which just by frame of reference is way before I like to normally get up. Then if I tell my friend, I’m going to meet you every day, then that’s going to be a tough commitment for me to honor. And at the same time, I don’t want to let my friend down. I don’t want to create a negative relationship where my friend feels like they can’t trust me and I don’t want to be a person who doesn’t do what I say I’m going to do.

So, I probably wouldn’t if I’m not a morning person, I’m not, so far I’ve gotten up at 5:00am not very many times this year. So that would probably not make sense for me to commit that to my friend. But I might say, “Listen, why don’t we start meeting twice a week, why don’t we meet every Tuesday and Thursday at 5:00am? Let’s just start there and let me see if I can get that down.”

Now, if we get into a good consistent pattern of that and then I say. “Maybe we want to add another day.” But I’m not going to overpromise and under-deliver to my friend because I value that relationship and I see myself as someone who follows through on what I say I’m going to do. But what do we do to ourselves? The exact opposite.

We tell ourselves. That’s it. I’m never eating dessert again. I’m never going to go to Target and buy something that I don’t need again. I’m never going to do this again, or I’m going to do this every day from now on. I’m going to read my scriptures every day for 10 minutes a day. It sounds so reasonable, some of our overpromises we give ourselves.

How do we know what’s reasonable when it comes to changing a habit here? You take a look at where you are and you ask yourself, what would be a baby step forward? Take a baby step and under-promise and over-deliver to yourself. You can always do more than you said you were going to do. But when we do less, when we don’t follow through on our commitments to ourselves, we do just as much, if not more, damage in that, now we lose trust in ourselves.

We don’t feel like we believe we’re going to do what we say we’re going to do because we’ve shown ourselves that we don’t. So, I would much rather you take baby steps and go back to number one if you’re like, “That’s going to take so long.” So, what, if we give ourselves the reward of feeling how we want, we practice that, we do thought work, we get coaching, we keep our heads in the right space then it doesn’t matter how long it takes. Remember, we’re just doing this because we want to.

We just want to, I don’t know, see what’s possible, see what we could do. Just sounds like it might be a good thing. I don’t even know why. Let’s just see what we could do.

Alright, this leads me to number three, which is, we have to get out of all or nothing thinking. Because even when you give yourself really reasonable expectations and you take baby steps, you’re not going to be perfect at it, you’re just not most likely or I’m not anyway. I’ve never been perfect at anything yet, so my guess is I never will be in this lifetime. And this is the brain trying to pull us off track when we miss a day or we overspend in a way we hadn’t planned on or we eat some food that we said we weren’t going to eat, etc.

And then the brain goes, “Oh, forget it. I’m totally off track now, so I might as well just blow the whole thing.” That is all or nothing thinking. If you can’t do it all, we might as well do nothing. Now, why does the brain do this? I don’t know if it’s just simpler to think in binaries like this. Or if it’s just that motivational triad working really hard to get us to stop doing this thing that’s causing us to forgo pleasure and have to endure some pain and have to think or work harder than what we’re used to and want to be able to do. I don’t know. All I know is it’s common.

I don’t know that everybody suffers from it, but most people do. And the brain loves to use it to pull us off track, the motivational triad, the primitive part of the brain loves to use it to sabotage us more or less. So, this is why I teach this concept of shooting for B minus work that I learned from my teacher, Brooke Castillo. She’s like, “What if you just told yourself”, let’s say you have your budget and you’re like, “This is how I’m going to spend my money.”

And you tell yourself, I’m going to aim for 100%. I’m going to aim for getting an A on this but I’m going to celebrate myself if I’m getting at least a B minus. And if I can’t get a B minus consistently or better, then I have to go back to step two. I have given myself too big of a step that I’m actually not ready to take. Now, I’m not talking about the first two weeks or the first two days, however long you last. In the beginning you could probably do way more.

But I’m talking about, could I, for the next year, commit to this. And if it gets easier after a month, you can change it, you can step up your expectations. But I’m just saying, what am I willing to commit to because any of us can do something for two weeks with willpower. But we’re not trying to use willpower here. We’re trying to truly change our habits or behaviors. So, you have to get away from all or nothing thinking.

Remember, I’m aiming for an A, but I’m celebrating and congratulating myself if I get at least a B minus. If I get below that on occasion, I say “Hey, hun, what’s going on? Seems like we had a hard day today. Did I give you too high of an expectation? Do I need to revisit it or was it just one of those days and we’re going to dive back in tomorrow or in the next hour. Was that just a moment and we’re going to dive back in now?” Be open to having conversations with yourself about it, but watch out for all or nothing thinking because for most of us it sabotages us.

Okay, number four, accountability. We respond well to accountability. Well, as I say that out loud I’m like, “Do we though? I like Gretchen Rubin’s work that talks about different types of accountability and different people that respond differently to different types of accountability. You might want to check that out if you’re interested in learning more about that.

But when I took her assessment years ago, it came back that I’m a ‘rebel personality’, which means I actually don’t really respond very well to accountability, both external or my own internal accountability, which I would say that tracks in most cases.

But if it’s my idea, if I at all have the thought that this is just something I should do, even if nobody else has really directly said that, I just picked it up from socialization. Or what I see other people doing and I tell myself that I should do this thing then I push back against accountability in pretty significant ways. But if it’s genuinely my desire, like I said, I just want to. I have cleaned up any noise I have about whether or not this is to impress other people, or again, it’s just something that should be done.

Once I clean all that up and I find just my own, I’m kind of curious about this thing now. I kind of want to see if I’m capable of this. I kind of want to explore this thing. Then I respond really well to accountability. I like having a coach maybe to hold me accountable or a friend to hold me accountable. And I could say, “Hey, let’s check in with each other.” Just have someone that we’re going to talk to every week and say, “Here’s how it went.”

You can also hold yourself accountable. And I know people ask me a lot about what does that look like. And it looks the same as it would if I were holding someone else accountable. It looks like every week checking in with myself and taking a minute to assess. I like to do this kind of work in a journal a lot of times, but I’ll be like, okay, let’s just take a look at how is it going? How are you feeling? What wins did you have this week? Where did you fall short? And let’s understand why.

And do we need to take a look at what you’re thinking and believing? Do we need to change the expectation or do we need to just keep going and let’s give it another, we can see how we do this week? But it’s always got to be done with compassion and openness to hearing yourself out. And you’ve got to try to strip away the self-judgment. So, get an accountability partner if it’s helpful for you.

And then the fifth thing is I want to speak to the way the woman worded this in this question. And I’m sorry, she didn’t leave her name, so that’s why I’m just calling you, that woman, which is fine. And anyway, you said that you feel like you’re ‘constantly restarting’. So as your coach, when I hear you say that, it makes me go, “Do you realize that’s a thought, I’m constantly restarting? And is it a thought that’s serving you?” We just want to question it.

How do you feel when you think I’m constantly restarting or when you’re working on eating a certain way or you’re trying to follow a budget and you don’t, and then you think now I have to start again, how do you feel? You probably feel discouraged. You feel something negative is my guess, that’s not serving you in this situation. So, I would just choose to reframe that, you’re not restarting. Did you know that? There’s no such thing as going backwards in time. I don’t have a time machine, neither do you.

And you have some experience now in that area that you didn’t have yesterday. You’re only ever going forward. You’re moving forward. It’s just that we think forward looks like a nice line headed in either up or down, depending on what you’re trying to do, in the direction that we want it to go and it’s nice and smooth. But that’s not what forward looks like. Forward is a graph that goes up and down in all different ways, but it keeps moving to the right as it goes up and down vertically. That’s forward.

That’s the reality actually, you’re not restarting. You know something about yourself that you didn’t know. If you pause and consider it, you haven’t experienced it, you could learn from, you’re not starting over. You’re still on this journey moving forward. So, I would just say to reframe little thoughts like that, that your brain will offer you.

Remember, that motivational triad part of the brain that wants to seek pleasure, avoid pain, save energy is trying to sabotage you because it’s like, “This is really hard. Why do we need to watch how we spend our money? It’s so much more fun to just buy what we want. And you know what? We’re doing fine. We’re fine. We haven’t died yet. We’ve been able to pay for what we need. Why do we want to do this challenging hard thing that requires a lot of energy, that causes us to forgo pleasure and is kind of painful?”

So, it’s trying to sabotage you by going, “Oh, see, now we have to start over because we messed up.” So, we don’t want that part of your brain deciding how you’re going to think about this and whether or not you’re going to keep going. So, you have to answer it with, no, we’re not starting over.

I like to picture a neighborhood that we’re driving through. In certain places in the neighborhood, there’s homes with really sweet, lovely, friendly families and nice yards. And then there’s also, as we keep driving, there’s an old run down gas station that looks like we wouldn’t want to go inside the building because the roof might cave in, it’s condemned. And that’s in the neighborhood, and some of us go, “Oh, no, I got out of the neighborhood.”

I’m like, “No, you’re still in the neighborhood. There’s just a lot of buildings like that, old condemned buildings. Keep going, keep driving and then you’ll find some more nice, beautiful buildings. And then you’re going to see a scary park that looks like the kind of place you don’t want to send your kids in the dark, especially.” And that doesn’t mean you left the neighborhood. No, that’s in the same neighborhood. Failure and success live in the same neighborhood.

You achieving your habits and you not following through on your habits, that’s in the same neighborhood. The only thing that’s not in the neighborhood is you just going unconscious and giving up and walking away and not trying anymore. That’s when you’ve exited the neighborhood.

So, listen my friends, I love this kind of work of just changing a goal or a habit because of who it helps us become. I know I said this in the beginning, but I just want to reiterate it. You don’t have to be better at anything. You’re already worthy and complete and whole and lovable, and your life is good, whatever it looks like, you’re right on track, I promise you. Just trust me on this. And then access your genuine desire. What do you kind of want to try? What do you kind of want to see if you’re capable of? Let’s go.

Alright, thanks for joining me today, everyone. We’ll see you next week. Bye.

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Who are you? Are you normal? Are you a mess? Should you be better or different than you are right now? And if you were, would everyone like you more? These are some of the questions you might ask yourself about your identity. Our identity permeates every single experience we have, so it’s a topic we need to dig deep into.

There are tons of ways to make changes in your life, but the biggest shift you can use to make an impact in your life is shifting your identity. If you want to learn more about how your identity impacts your thoughts, feelings, and actions, this is the episode for you.

Tune in this week for an in-depth discussion about identity and how our identity is creating our experience of life. You’ll learn why one identity isn’t inherently better or more righteous than another, and I show you what really matters in all of this as you navigate understanding and embracing your identity.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How our relationships with ourselves, our identity, and our worth are at the root of every problem we have. * Why I believe a lack of understanding around our respective identities is part of God’s Miraculous Plan. * The questions we wrestle with when it comes to our identity. * How we use the identities of others against ourselves, and why no one identity is better than another. * What really matters when deciding what your identity means about you. * How to prevent your thoughts about your identity from negatively impacting your life.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
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Myron Golden
Adam Miller
Thomas McConkie
Take Back Your Brain by Kara Loewentheil

Who are you anyway? Are you okay? Are you normal? Are you a mess? Should you be better or different? If you were, would everyone like you better and would that be a good thing? Would life get easier? Today I’m talking about the issue of identity and how it permeates every single experience we have every single day. We all have areas where shifting our beliefs would create big changes, but the biggest and most universal one is with regards to our identity.

Welcome to episode 463. This is the final episode in our month-long series, 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned: Identity.

How we doing, everybody? Welcome to the final episode in this month-long series I’ve been doing. It’s our 10 year anniversary here at Jody Moore Coaching. In May of 2014, I went to coach training and became certified and then started talking about this work, much to the probably dismay of people around me, I couldn’t stop talking about it. So, I just want to thank all of you for being here, because I want to talk about it to people who want to learn about it, not just people who happen to be there in earshot and have to listen to me.

But I do love talking about this stuff, 10 years later I’m still not tired of it and I’m still having new insights and I’m so grateful to all of you. As I reflect back on the last 10 years, I want to make sure and express that gratitude, not only because you being here allows me to do what I do, but I so value your willingness to work on yourself. I think that the best way, or at least the best way I know of to really make positive changes in our societies, in our cultures, in our families, in our churches, in all the places is to have each of us be willing to go internal and work on ourselves.

Anyway, I’ve loved meeting you for those of you that I’ve been able to work really closely with. If I haven’t met you, I know you’re here listening and I appreciate you as well. So, in all honesty, I just recorded this podcast episode on identity. And for some reason, when I got done I was like, “I don’t know that that went in the direction I intended.”

And I have this whole outline that I wrote that I was kind of following along with as I recorded it. So, you’d think that following the outline would mean it went the direction I intended. But there was just something about it at the end that I thought, I don’t know if that’s exactly what I want to say about this topic. So, I have my outline here that I might reference on occasion, but I’m going to try this again and just speak from my heart so, I hope that it makes sense.

I think the reason I feel this way is because this is kind of an existential philosophical topic. And I don’t know that I’m great at talking about things like that. I feel like I talk in circles sometimes and there are just people out there, Adam Miller comes to mind and Thomas McConkey, who are really good at these existential philosophical kinds of discussions. And I think I’m good at plenty of other things. But this whole topic I feel so strongly about that I want to do it justice and yet maybe nobody can actually.

Maybe it’s so important that none of us actually has the magic words to be able to help you or me truly understand our worth. So, in coaching and those of you who are coaches like myself, know that at the root of pretty much every problem or challenge, even when we take on goals and give ourselves problems or challenges. At the root of any struggle we have, is our relationship with ourself or our understanding of our identity and our worth, it really is.

My friend, Kara Loewentheil, who, by the way, has an amazing new book out that you should check out. It’s called Take Back Your Brain. I think I’m going to have Kara on the podcast to talk about some of the things in that book, because it just came out two days ago and I haven’t been able to put it down. It’s so good. Seriously, check it out. But at any rate, my friend, Kara, I remember years ago being at some kind of conference or something with a bunch of coaches.

And we were talking about this topic of if everybody just liked themselves better, felt good about themselves, then we wouldn’t have most of the problems that we have. And she’s like, “I know, but the problem is as a coach that means that all we can say is, “So just like yourself better, just stop thinking you’re not good enough because you are.”” And then that’s the end of it. Improving yourself in whatever way you choose to improve yourself doesn’t make you more valuable.

And making mistakes, and again, whatever you define as mistakes or falling short doesn’t make you less valuable. If me telling you that is enough and you’re like, “Great, now that I get that, everything is easier, then good, I’m in.” I do try to tell people that all the time, hoping that it will just flip a switch. But unfortunately, I don’t think that this challenge of identity is a switch that can be flipped in our human condition. I don’t know why.

I suspect though, based on my faith, for those of you who are religious, my guess is that this lack of understanding of our identity is part of God’s miraculous plan. That in order to become like our heavenly parents, we have to wrestle with this question of am I okay? Am I good enough? And even not be able to fully let go of the idea that some people are better than others.

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So, if you want to keep learning to be better at, get help with and stay motivated in your job as a coach and all the other jobs you do as a coach, come join me in The Lab Coach Access at jodymoore.com/coachaccess. That’s jodymoore.com/coachaccess. Now, the experts say you’re supposed to give the URL three times, so once again, jodymoore.com/coachaccess. I’ll see you there.

So, I think that that kind of pushback and resistance of the human experience is what gives us the opportunity to evolve and develop and become more of the spiritual, divine beings that we are intrinsically. I don’t know. That’s my guess. I don’t know that that’s true, but it makes sense to me in my mind. So, we’re never going to turn that switch off. And in fact, even as we talk about this today and as we talk about how it comes up in coaching, what it looks like and how I try to help people understand this, it’s still not a checkbox. I mean, that’s true with coaching in general.

It’s not like I worked on my thoughts about this topic and now I’m done. There are some topics like that. There are some that you’ll check off and you’ll never struggle with again. But there are many that will keep resurfacing and come back and identity is one of them. So, if you tell yourself, I thought I already did it. I thought I was confident, I thought I understood my value and worth and healed my relationship with myself. Why do I have this self-loathing now? Why do I have this doubt? Why do I have this insecurity?

You’re missing the point. You have it because you’re a human being, a healthy human being at that. So, I always use this example, but it’s the best one I can think of, that it’s like brushing your teeth. It’s like bad breath. If I have bad breath, I can tackle that in many ways, but my favorite way is just to go brush my teeth, seems to help. But if I wake up the next morning with bad breath again and go, “I thought I brushed my teeth. Why do I have bad breath? Yesterday I brushed my teeth.” It’s because I live in a human body that has bacteria and things that show up as bad breath in my mouth.

And I’m never going to be done brushing my teeth. I’m going to have to keep brushing them. The good news is, I know that I can brush my teeth or chew gum or use mouthwash or whatever and not have that bad breath be a dominant part of who I am. The people around me probably really appreciate when I do that, but it’s never going to be gone. I’m always going to have to do something to address it as long as I’m alive in a human body and that is how identity work is as well.

But because I have habits of brushing my teeth and I know what kind of gum I like to chew and I know how to address it, it doesn’t play a dominant role, it doesn’t really slow me down. And that’s how I want to help you get when it comes to your identity. So, who are you? What makes you unique? Because even if we understand our worth and value, and I guess we should start there. Like I said, I’m not following my outline anymore, so stay with me.

Let’s go back to human worth and human value in the first place. I like to picture that there’s in our minds this part of us that struggles with worthiness, there’s a vertical scale. Vertical means going up and down. Remember people, the V goes up and down, that’s how you remember. There’s a vertical scale that goes from high down to low. And in our minds we place people on this scale and try to determine who’s better, who’s worse and where do I fall in this scale, most importantly, where do I rank in this scale?

That whole scale in and of itself, first of all, what moves somebody up and down the scale is a whole fascinating, complicated discussion to have around socialization. We have all had growing up and continue to get around maybe just preferences and thoughts, around one random statement that somebody said when we were 16 years old and it really stuck with us. There are so many things that we use and not the same for all of us but many overlaps that we use to move ourselves up and down the vertical scale.

And what I want to say is that those things are arbitrary and that vertical scale in and of itself is a lie. There is no vertical scale. There’s only a horizontal scale, which means it goes from left to right in terms of how we are unique and interesting and different but nobody’s higher up. It might be that horizontal scale might include people who are having an easier or more expansive or more enjoyable life experience. And people who are having a more challenging, more difficult or more constricted life experience.

It can be all kinds of things that move us around on that horizontal scale, some of which are things in our control and some of which are not, that are circumstances that we didn’t choose. But we move around on this horizontal scale but we never move up and down on a vertical scale. Now, I just want to point out because as you know, I’m a very active member of the LDS Church. I love being a member of that church. And I also want to do anything I can to bring awareness to how we can make our church community and our practices even better.

And one way, I feel, you may not agree with this, that’s fine, but one way I feel we can do a better job is we sometimes talk about, ‘the world’. And what we’re talking about is this exact topic of socialization. We say things like, “Well, in the world people value things that actually don’t matter in the end at all.” For example, maybe we would say, “People in the world value money or success or appearance or fame or things like this that aren’t valuable at all.” And I would agree, it can be useful to understand that those things aren’t valuable.

I don’t like when we separate ourselves and do this kind of othering thing of labeling there’s us, and then there’s the world. Because I am a part of the world and I am just as guilty of valuing things that don’t matter at all, as the next person, even if our things are different. So, I like to keep us as part of the world. I think that is actually the way Christ would think about it. But at any rate, that’s just one of my pet peeves, we’ll get into more later.

My point in explaining this though is that often, the way we then round out that conversation, the way we end that topic is we say, we believe that what’s important is your relationship with God and how are you drawing near to him and are you emulating Christ? Are you trying to be as Christ-like as possible, and are you seeking for eternal things that matter more in terms of are you serving? Are you making good choices? Are you honest? Are you treating others kindly? Those are the things that really matter.

Now, I don’t disagree with that, but I think there’s a third piece of that conversation that’s missing, which is, even if you’re really good at those things, it still doesn’t make you a better person than if you’re not. So, let’s just pause for a minute and try to wrap our minds around this. The more someone is like Jesus, the better they are, is the message people hear when they go to church. I don’t actually think that’s true.

I think the more that you are like Jesus, the more amazing your life is going to be. I think it’s going to serve you really well to be like Christ. I think you’re going to like the fruits of that for your own experience and I think the people around you will probably prefer it as well. But I don’t think it makes you more valuable than somebody who’s not like Jesus in whatever way we would even define that. I think it means you’re going to have a different experience and you’re going to have different struggles or challenges or trials etc.

Maybe even it means something about the next life, although I question how much we really understand that at all. But my point is it still doesn’t then create a vertical scale. and unless we say that out loud, then we oftentimes not intentionally, but we are contributing to people’s misunderstanding of their identity. I do worry about this when it comes to our kids and our youth and the way we talk to them at our church.

I personally am constantly saying, anytime I get to get in front of the kids or the youth, I say, “Listen, you’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to break commandments. You’re even going to make big mistakes. Some of the stuff in your mind that you think I would never do that, you might do and it doesn’t make you less valuable. It doesn’t touch your worth. And it doesn’t mean God’s disappointed in you or doesn’t love you as much.” Because the brain wants to believe otherwise, the brain is looking for a way to measure success. The brain is trying to put you and me, my brain does it too, on a vertical continuum.

And the problem is that that lie that we believe, Myron Golden calls this your liedentity, doesn’t help us be better. It does the opposite, it makes it harder for us to be who we want to be. So, when I say better, that’s a subjective term. It’s not based on your worthiness. It’s based on what, for you, is the kind of person that you want to be. Who do you want to be? How do you want to live? What decisions do you want to make? How do you want to show up? How do you want to feel? What do you want to create? What do you want to go after?

The things that you desire, the person you desire to be, whoever you genuinely are at your best, which is tough to know who that is because we all have so much socialization around who we should be or what is good. But my point is, whatever is truly you at your purest, most loving, least fear based, most confident is tough to be when your identity is in question. That’s just the reality.

So, listen, this is coaching that I do in all kinds of ways. Sometimes we literally have this discussion. I can think of instances when I’ve talked to clients over the past 10 years about, what does make a person valuable? And I so appreciate people telling me what they truly believe, what their brains are telling them because we have the prefrontal cortex, the wise, I know this kind of answer. And then we have the subconscious, this is what I kind of still believe for some reason even though I logically don’t believe it.

And when we access that subconscious belief that is actually the stronger driver in all of us, it can be really powerful. So sometimes people have told me that there is a part of them that does think that the more you get done, the better you are. The harder you work, the better you are.

The more people who like you and approve of you for whatever reason, a lot of times people are like, “No, I don’t want people to approve of me just because of my appearance or my whatever.” But if people think that I serve a lot, that I’m really righteous, that I’m really humble, or that I’m really smart and I have interesting things to say or that I’m really fun”, or whatever the reason. Then that must mean I’m a better person if people like me.

Or if people don’t like me, I must not be doing as good of a job at this whole being a human thing. I must not be as worthy, as valuable, as complete, whole, good etc. What is it for you? What do you think makes some people better than others? We can go into a whole bunch of stuff about all of our fears and assumptions and biases that we have around people for all kinds of reasons. But even if you clean up a lot of that, whatever’s left is still a belief that there are certain ways to earn more worth and that’s a dangerous belief system.

So how do we ‘brush our teeth of this?’ How do we chew a piece of gum? How do we not let this thing that I don’t think we’ll ever get rid of in this lifetime, how do we not let it be something that so negatively impacts whatever else we’re doing, our relationships, our contribution, our ability to set and achieve goals, and even our day-to-day life experience? Here’s what I think.

I think that taking a look at pressure points in your life and just addressing those, you don’t even have to go all the way to these deep existential identity type of questions. If you take a look at what upsets you, what bothers you, what frustrates you, what’s hard for you, like I said, at the core of that is identity. So, as we work on these smaller, easier to access things, which is what we do in coaching, it naturally shifts the identity piece.

Let me give an example. So today I was coaching a woman who said that she has a daughter who gets upset. She wants this daughter to do some homework for example, and the daughter gets upset and yells at her and says, “You’re trying to manipulate me”, amongst other things. So, my client says that she feels sad and defensive. As she gets emotional, she has to withdraw. She’s upset by this. Nothing wrong with this. My client, I was like, “Doesn’t sound to me like you’re doing anything wrong here, but it’s interesting. Let’s notice it.”

So, the truth is, at the core of this is identity work, relationship with self, confidence, self-esteem. If my client understood that she is amazing and whole and valuable and complete and even if her daughter doesn’t see that and her daughter thinks she’s being manipulative. It doesn’t change her value. Or even if she is kind of being manipulative or maybe she’s really directly being manipulative. If that were the case, it still doesn’t make you a less valuable person. If she knew that there would be no danger here.

Her brain wouldn’t think this is sad or dangerous and I’ve got to get away and she wouldn’t be crying and feeling bad about this if she truly understood that. But she’s a human being having a human experience. And so, for whatever reason, do you see what I mean about these pressure points? Some of you might say, “My child says that to me all the time, and I don’t care at all. I just know that she’s emotional and she’s dramatic and she’s struggling and I just tell her, “Oh, well, whatever”, and I move on.”

For some of you, that wouldn’t be a pressure point. For this client it is. But we all have these pressure points. So, when you take a look at the pressure point and you start examining it and you start questioning, why does this bother me? What do I make it mean when my child is upset with me or about me or about the child? Do I make it mean something about myself as a mother and that I’m not a good mother? And if so, am I saying that I should be a good mother? If I was a good mother, then what, I would be more lovable, more complete, more worthy?

Do you see how we have just tapped into a little piece of this identity work that we could do? Because the truth is, you could be whatever is the best mother on the planet if we could even define that and it wouldn’t make you more valuable than if you were the worst mother on the planet. That’s fascinating.

Now, when we unwind this stuff, and we don’t always have to get to this level of identity in order for this to make an impact, but it will impact your identity because it’s there whether we say it out loud or not. But when we do unwind it, then the next logical question I hear a lot is, well, then, why bother? If being a better mother or if achieving this goal or being more like Christ or whatever it is that you choose to make the thing. If that doesn’t make me more valuable, more worthy, if it doesn’t move me up on this vertical continuum, then why bother?

And I think that’s such a fascinating question. The fact that that question comes to mind for so many people when I do this work, tells me that there’s a huge part of our brains dedicated to climbing a ladder that doesn’t even exist. Isn’t that crazy to think about? I don’t know why, but for some reason as a young girl, as a teenager, I remember thinking about this. Do you have these kind of weird, existential questions that you get as a kid?

Why do we all want to have fancier cars and bigger houses and skinnier bodies? And this is again when I was a teenager. And I remember going, “Because then we think that people will like us more or will be impressed by us or will be impressed by us, then we’ll feel better about ourselves.” I remember realizing at a really young age, we’re all just trying to feel better about ourselves. Everything we do is an attempt, most of what we do anyway is an attempt to feel better about ourselves. That’s so fascinating.

It wasn’t until I found coaching much later in my life that I learned how to actually feel better about myself, which is exactly what I’m describing here. Take a look at your pressure points or pain points. Now, my favorite ones to look at, that I like to use to work on identity are the pressure points that I create or that you create for yourself? I like to give myself a challenge or a goal.

I like to say, “I wonder if I could achieve this thing. I wonder if I could do that”, because it forces the identity work. I have to examine my own limiting beliefs, my own thoughts about whether or not I’m worthy of this achievement or whether or not it’s possible for me. Or whether or not I’m willing to be terrible at things and fail at things and still not make it mean something about my identity. There’s so much identity work that’s available from a challenge or goal that I pick. And the good news about this is that I’m working towards something that I desire.

So, you can do it either way. You can do it with challenges and problems, you can do it with goals and probably you’ll have some of both in your life if you’re like most of us. But the more you understand that that vertical ladder of who’s higher and who’s lower doesn’t even exist, no matter what you have been believing all this time, the freer you become. So, the answer to the question that I brought up earlier, if it doesn’t make me better, then why bother? Is just because we’re alive here on planet Earth having an experience.

And we actually don’t like boredom or stagnation either. We’re either growing or dying. And growth feels a lot better to us because it’s what we’re here for. And there’s all kinds of ways we can grow, but if we stop growing we don’t feel good, we feel depressed, we feel sad. We are not designed for stagnation. It’s just not even an option.

So again, I look at a sporting event, you go to a game. Let’s say you go to a basketball game and there’s a bunch of basketball players on the floor trying to shoot hoops and maybe they have all kinds of motivation and I’m sure identity’s at play and all of that. But let’s say we cleaned all of that up, let’s say it’s not a professional game. Let’s say it’s a group of boys out in the neighborhood.

And again, there’s still going to be identity stuff to clean up, but at its essence, at its purest, why are they playing basketball? Just because they can, because they’re alive and they have legs to run on, and they have a ball and a hoop and it’s fun to interact and it’s fun to see what’s possible. And it’s fun to have a challenge and to get better and to gain the skill of dribbling and shooting a basketball. And it feels good to be in a body and get your heart rate up.

And it’s fun to interact with other people and to have teammates and to have competitors and all of it just feels good, in all kinds of ways. And that’s it. That’s what this life is. It’s just like a giant experiment, a giant playground, if you will, whereby we get to evolve and grow. It’s a giant classroom maybe you would say, but in the most fun way. That’s it. Not because you have anything to prove or anything to earn. Interesting to think about, don’t you think?

So, I do think this is worth thinking about. I think that paying attention to your pressure points for me has been the most effective way, I honestly do. Maybe this is just aging, maybe it’s something that just happens as we age. But as I look back at myself over the last 10 years, I do have a lot more inner peace. The voice in my head is a lot kinder. I still have disagreements with myself, in other words, part of me will go, “Hey, we should try this thing.” Another part of me will say, “No, you can’t do that. Who do you think you are?”

But the conversations are much more interesting and a lot less just shaming and shutting down and feeling bad. I’m a lot more open for discussion with myself about what’s possible. And partly that’s because as you work on identity then you start showing up better for yourself. You start showing up for what you truly care about and desire, and you’re willing to sacrifice some short term pleasure or things. You’re willing to do some short term challenging things. And you honor your commitments to yourself.

And just everything gets better because you build trust with yourself and you build a healthy relationship with yourself. And then as long as you can manage yourself and not make that mean that now you’re better than the version of you that didn’t do that. Just notice it makes your life easier and it feels better in the present experience. Then it really is impactful in every area of your life. When you can be patient and kind and generous in understanding your own worth for you, you can do that for other people as well. You become less judgmental, less critical.

So, practice understanding this. I like to do it in small moments, I’ll be driving downtown and see a bunch of homeless people on the side of the road. And I just quickly remind myself, I’m not better than them because I’m driving my car down the street and they’re homeless on the side of the road. I’m not better than them. I’m having a different life experience. And for all I know, if I came from their circumstances, I would be struggling a lot more than they are. Who knows?

We have different circumstances. We’re having different experiences. And maybe some of that’s within some of our control and maybe a lot of it’s not. We’re both equal in value. That’s interesting. And when I see somebody succeeding in all the ways that I wish I could succeed, that it’s achieving things or that seems to have a better handle on their habits or whatever it is. I remind myself, they’re not better than me. We’re the same. We’re both amazingly valuable, complete, 100% lovable people.

We’re just having different experiences, some of which may be because of choices we made and some of which may be outside of our control. I don’t know. All I know is we’re equal, just different. Interesting. Do you see how I’m constantly reminding myself? Because then, inevitably I wake up with bad breath again at some point. And I think that I’m a little better than someone, or I think that I’m much worse than most people and I just brush my teeth again.

It usually comes up, when I say wake up with bad breath it usually is because of a challenge that has come up in my life, a problem of some sort or a goal that I’m striving to achieve and I’m not making the progress that I wish I was. Those are the two times when I pay attention to my identity work, and I hope that you’ll do the same.

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. You are amazing. I love you so much. Thanks for being here and I’ll talk to you next time, bye bye.

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The post 463. 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned Part 5: Identity appeared first on Jody Moore.

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What’s true for you, right here, right now? What do you believe about the world around you, or what’s possible for you? Do you understand the power of your beliefs in the context of your day-to-day life?

We like to believe that the stories we tell ourselves are the truth about how the world works or who people are, but they’re really just our observations and interpretations of reality. Your belief system is creating everything in your reality, from how you feel to what you have, and who you show up as in the world. The great news is that once you’re aware of this, there are limitless possibilities available to you.

Tune in this week to learn my top lessons learned about beliefs in 10 years of coaching. I’m showing you how we contribute to making our beliefs true, why you don’t need proof to believe in what you want, and how to create momentum in strengthening your beliefs, especially when doubt arises.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The most basic definition of a belief. * How we know beliefs aren’t true. * Examples of how the brain tries to filter out irrelevant information. * How we contribute to making our thoughts true. * The most significant thing I’ve learned in 10 years of coaching. * How you might be confusing self-awareness with truths about yourself. * Why you don’t have to have proof to believe in what you want.

Mentioned on the Show:

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Brooke Castillo
Dr. Benjamin Hardy

What do you believe and why do you believe it? Most people think these questions are about existential beliefs or religious faith, and they can be. But today I want to talk about the power of them in a different context, in the context of your day-to-day life, right here, right now, I’ll tell you that in my 10 years of coaching I’ve witnessed the power of beliefs. And I’ve seen people change beliefs that seemed impossible to let go of. Welcome to episode 462, 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned, Part 4: Beliefs.

What’s happening? We made it to spring. Did you make it to spring? We’re having the most beautiful weather here. I’m loving it. I’m spending as much time outside as I possibly can, soaking in the sun and just really appreciating it.

I want to talk to you about this topic of beliefs today because this is at the crux of everything that I do. It is really the tipping point of any major success or progress that I see my clients make. Think about a door, a big door that maybe you’re trying to open or close. And I want you to think about the tiny little hinges that that door swings on, small hinges swing big doors.

And our beliefs are thinking the stories that we’re telling ourselves and that we believe to be just truths about how the world works are the small hinges that swing those big doors but the hinges are small. We don’t really pay very close attention to them. We forget about them, actually, until something breaks, maybe on a door. And this is how we operate as human beings, what we can see is our actions, the things we do, the things we don’t do, the words that people say. The things happening externally are the most obvious, those are the doors.

But what’s happening in our minds, what we’re believing to be true, what we believe is reality, which is actually just our observance of reality and our interpretation of reality, I should say, that is what is swinging that door whichever direction it’s going.

So, let’s just start with a basic definition of a belief. My favorite definition of a belief comes from Abraham Hicks, who says that a belief is just a thought that you keep on thinking. Isn’t that a beautiful, simple way to distill a belief down? It’s just a thought that you keep on thinking. Now, when I’m talking to people about beliefs and we notice a thought that someone keeps on thinking, oftentimes they’ll say to me, “But it’s true.” In other words, this is my observance of what is actually true and real in the outside world, happening here in my head.

I’m the same way. I think that what I believe is true, is just true, and that’s okay. That’s how we’re supposed to operate as human beings. It helps us to feel safe and to feel like we understand the world and we can make enough predictions to keep ourselves safe and all of that, so it’s okay. But if you recognize that a belief is just a thought that you keep on thinking and keep in mind every time we think the same thought, we ingrain neural pathways into our brains as those two neurons connect. And so, it becomes a really deep rooted pattern in the brain every time we think the same thought.

So, interesting to think about a belief that way, as less an observation of what’s real and more a sentence that we’ve been thinking in our brains over and over again. Now, I’m not saying it’s not based in reality. I’m not saying you don’t have good reason to believe it. I’m not even saying it’s not true. It is ‘true’. And it’s also not true, a belief because beliefs are subjective. So, here’s the thing, our brains are so amazing and efficient, they try to focus on reinforcing what we believe is true.

That is the brain’s job to scan for evidence or proof that what we are thinking and believing is reality. This is called the reticular activating system. Your brain knows to pay attention to things that reinforce your beliefs or things that might be relevant to your life, especially if they’re relevant to your survival so your brain believes. I mean, there are some things relevant to our survival, but our brain thinks a lot more things are relevant to our survival than what actually are.

So, anything that might be threatening or dangerous or relevant to your life or reinforcing to your beliefs, that’s what your brain is scanning for. Now, it’s doing its best to filter out anything that doesn’t fit into one of those categories. It’s trying to ignore things that are irrelevant or not potentially dangerous or even potentially super beneficial. It tries to filter all of that out, thank goodness.

Because imagine, I don’t know about you but by about 9:00/9:30, I’m done. Physically I’m tired, but more even so mentally and emotionally I’m tired. Because of the stimulus I’ve been taking in all day, the work I’ve been doing, the conversations I’ve been having. All of that requires a lot of our brains to interpret and so we’re tired. Imagine if we didn’t have a reticular activating system, if we weren’t able to filter out things that are irrelevant or not necessary. Imagine if we gave every stimulus the same weight.

Stimulus comes in through our senses, so things that we hear, things that we see, things that we taste, touch or smell. And many things in our world contain multiple of these types of stimulus, that speak to multiple of our senses.

So, imagine if we couldn’t filter out what was relevant and we just had all of the stimulus available to us coming at us with the same degree of importance. We would not make it more than a couple of hours, is my guess. I don’t know in reality what a scientist would say, but my guess is that we would be so exhausted so early on, we couldn’t function optimally as we do now. So, this is why the brain tries to filter out irrelevant information.

My favorite example of this is an airport, because there’s so much stimulus in an airport, typically. There’s a lot of people. There’s lots of sounds, there’s smells, there’s lots to see, lots to take in and it can be overwhelming, being in that kind of environment. So, our brains try their best to filter out anything that’s irrelevant so that we can focus on what is relevant, because we’re also usually trying to get somewhere and we’ve got to be there on time and all of these things happening.

So, we focus on what is my gate, when does my flight leave, where do I need to be and then maybe if we have time to get a snack or whatever else we’re going to be doing in the airport. And it tries to filter everything else out. Now, imagine that you’re just walking to your gate, you know where you’re going, you’re focused. By the way, the reticular activating system is not perfect at filtering everything out. A lot of stuff gets through that doesn’t really matter, isn’t relevant. So it’s not that you’re not aware of anything else. We are aware of other things, but it’s trying its best.

So, you’re walking along to your gate, you’re focused, you’re going to go have a seat and wait to board your flight. And suddenly they call your name over the intercom and they say, “Please come to the security checkpoint, you’ve left your phone or your ID”, or something. Your brain would hear that unless you had AirPods on and it was literally blocking out all sound. Then you would go, “Wait, what?” Because they just said your name. Our names are relevant to us.

And so even though we’re pretty good at kind of ignoring whatever else is happening over the intercom, if they said your name, you would pick up on it because of your reticular activating system. And hopefully you would hear that and go pick up your ID. So, this is a beautiful thing. What it means though, is that our brains have been filtering for, again, the reinforcement of what we believe is true and we’re pretty good at it.

So, when I’m coaching, I always tell my clients, when we start talking about a particular belief system. Let’s say a client comes on and says, “My sister’s mad at me.” That would be a belief, my sister’s mad at me, I think she might be mad at me. Now, we put that in the thought line of their model when we’re coaching. We don’t make that the fact, my sister’s mad at me, even if my sister said, “I’m really mad at you”, which is usually not the case. But still the fact would be my sister said, “I’m mad at you.” But my sister’s mad at me is just a belief. It’s just a sentence that you’re thinking.

And I would ask my client to give me more details and more information. And they would start telling me about their sister. They would tell me about how she hasn’t called and she normally does or she hasn’t been replying to text messages like she normally does, or how she was just really cold and standoffish. And they would give me all this evidence about her behavior. And we could draw the conclusion that she’s mad at you and she might be. You might be right about that. My point is that you’ve been looking for proof of that and you’ve collected it and you’ve created evidence for your story that your sister’s mad at you.

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Now, here’s the other really interesting thing about our reticular activating system and just our brains in general is that we actually even contribute to making those thoughts true. So, if I think that my sister is mad at me, then I start to mirror her in certain ways. We have also mirroring neurons. So, if I think that she’s avoiding me, she’s kind of standoffish and she’s kind of cold, guess what happens for me? I either become really clingy and needy and sort of try desperately to get her to reply, which is kind of annoying. We don’t tend to like people when they become really needy and weird.

Or I might distance myself and kind of become a little bit more cold towards her. So now notice who’s mad at who. I’m sort of mad or hurt or upset with my sister, which makes me behave not as my best self, which makes me less likable to my sister, or at least maybe she’s confused by my behavior, which gives her more reason to be unhappy with me. I’m actually contributing to making my beliefs true unless I slow it down and realize it, I should say. You can override any of these systems at any time, but we can’t do that all the time, we would be exhausted.

So, it’s good to know that what we’re believing even in the most subtle, undetectable ways to us, certainly we’re unaware of our own behaviors. We are contributing to making our beliefs true. And we are gathering up as much evidence as possible that they’re true, even the thoughts and beliefs that we think we don’t want to be true. That’s just how we work as human beings.

So, here’s what I want to tell you. I kind of mentioned this in the intro, but most of the time when people think about questioning their beliefs or what do you believe, and you can believe anything you want. And when they hear people talk about questioning beliefs, they think that we’re talking about religion or existential truth. And again, that can be a part of this but that’s not really what I want to talk about today. I do coach people sometimes who are going through these types of existential questions, and I know that can be challenging and I think it’s important to explore that in a safe space, whatever that looks like for you.

But again, today I don’t want to talk about those types of beliefs. I want to talk about just figuring out what’s real and what’s true and what you want to create right here, right now with your human life while you’re alive on planet Earth in a body. So, whatever you want to believe about where we came from or where we’re going or whether or not there’s a higher power guiding any of it. Again, I’m going to kind of set that part aside. I want to talk about your experience right here and now.

And I know those two things impact each other significantly. But I guess what I’m saying is one of the things I love about coaching is sometimes just paying attention to what we might call more surface level beliefs. The more day-to-day things that don’t feel so again, big and existential and heavy and universal or eternal or whatever you want to call them.

Trying to just manage your thoughts and pay attention to your beliefs around the day-to-day may be ‘small things’. Actually gives you a lot of leverage over your brain and can help you explore some of those deeper issues if that’s something that you’re interested or finding necessary to explore in your life. So, what is true right here and right now? What do you want to believe? What do you want to believe overall about the world around you? Now again, you can take specific parts of the world around you and you’ll find it easier maybe to apply what I’m teaching you here.

Let’s say you’re shopping for a house, you’re looking to buy a house, you’re looking to move or you’re looking to sell a house. What do you want to believe about the housing market in whatever area you currently live in or are trying to move to? People will tell you what’s ‘true’ about the housing market there, they will. And most of them have good intentions of trying to help you but what’s true is whatever people decide to believe. That’s the reality.

Now, are there some facts that exist about the housing market? Yes, there are, just a few though, and they change on a daily basis, maybe even hourly basis or every minute they’re changing. So, what’s really true, it’s a great market. It’s a tough market. Inventory is low. It’s a great time to buy. You must be cash. It’s hard to get in. All the things people are going to tell you, just know that they’re all thoughts or beliefs, and that’s okay, not wrong, just up for grabs, up for grabs. What do you want to believe about people in the world?

Now, again, you can look at a broad spectrum of people in general. Do you want to believe that people are really struggling and things are really hard? That might serve you to believe that. Do you want to believe that people are doing the best they can? Do you want to believe that people are just out to get each other and they’re in it for themselves, people are selfish? Do you want to believe that people are mostly good? What do you want to believe about people in general? But again, the easiest way to apply this work is to just look at specifics.

What do you want to believe about the specific people in your life, in your immediate family or in your extended family or at your job or that you interact with at school? Or if you have a business, your clients or customers and specific clients and customers especially, what do you want to believe about people? You can choose. There is no capital T truth about any certain person because people are dynamic.

Think about it. When we say, “She is so kind and generous.” Well, sometimes she’s kind and generous, but in reality she’s human, so she probably has times when she’s grumpy and not so generous. That’s the reality. So how do we know if she’s kind or generous? How do we know if he’s selfish or greedy? Nobody is actually those things, people behave in those ways at times, and they operate from certain thoughts and emotions that we might label as nice or greedy or selfish or generous but people aren’t those things. People just behave in those ways at times.

What do you want to believe about yourself? I’m going to do a whole episode next week on this topic. This is the most significant mind blowing thing I’ve learned in 10 years of coaching is how much our relationships with ourselves impact everything that we do. But I’ll just touch on it here, which is, what do you want to believe about yourself? So many times, we confuse self-awareness with capital T truth about ourselves.

So, in my work as a coach, I am trying to help people observe themselves and become aware. So, it’s a really useful thing to be able to notice. I do some people pleasing in this area or I don’t follow through on what I say I’m going to do or I do follow through and I’m very good at this thing. So that kind of awareness can be useful, but only so long as you understand that it’s just a belief. It’s just a thought that you’re thinking.

And it can be useful to think it to gain some awareness and some leverage if you want to change a certain part of your life or it’s a part of your life that you value and you want to keep. But it’s just a thought that we’re going to look for evidence for and then reinforce and make true. So, I always, when my clients come on the call and they say, “I’ve noticed for the past week that I really tend to people please with my dad”, let’s say “I really want my dad to be proud of me.”

I’m like, “Okay, first things first, I want you to know that’s just a sentence in your mind. It’s not a fact about you. You’re not 5’6 and you always try to get your dad to be proud of you. You’re 5’6 and maybe there have been times when you’ve tried to get your dad to be proud of you but that’s not who you are. That’s not an ingrained, unchangeable part of you.” Good to know. I’ll tell you though, with all of these things, I’m not talking about being super positive and I’m not talking about trying to believe something that you don’t actually believe.

I’m just talking about noticing the sentences in your mind and how much we collect evidence for those sentences and then we contribute to the truthfulness of those sentences. Good to know. What do you believe about what’s possible? What’s possible for you in your life? What’s possible for other people? So many people are giving advice, I don’t know about you, but I was raised being taught by a lot of people who I appreciate and value that taught me, though, to be realistic.

What is realistic? How do we know? We only know by looking around at the world outside of us at what other people have done. But we’ve all heard the story about people thinking what was realistic was true until somebody breaks the record and then suddenly everyone starts changing their idea of what’s realistic and they break the same record over and over again. So just again, I don’t think it’s wrong or bad to have ideas about what’s realistic and even to want to aim for what’s realistic.

I just want you to know it’s just a belief system. It’s just a sentence in your head and it can be really useful to help you be compassionate and patient and kind with yourself, to have an idea about what’s possible, what’s realistic but it also is limiting to a certain extent. If you want to do something that you’ve never done before, you’re going to have to think bigger, you’re going to have to think differently.

So, these are some kind of deep thoughts, to think that it’s really all just a story, it’s all a belief system. These beliefs, these sentences I’ve been thinking over and over again are continuing to create my reality and create what I am capable of and what I have and how I feel and who I am. And we don’t have to unwind all of it. But I do like knowing that it’s possible and that the shortcut to really making significant changes in my life is through my thinking, through my mindset.

So, there are a couple of courses I’ve taken recently. One, I think it was a couple of years ago from Brooke Castillo that was called, I think it was called The reinvention Experience, something about reinvention. And it was amazing because she really made us think about some things on a new level. So, for example she asked us this question, “What is your favorite color?” So, at the time I said green and this was in writing. She had us do it like a homework assignment.

And then she said, “What do you want your favorite color to be?” And I was like, “Green.” That’s what most everybody, most of us picked our favorite color and then we said that’s what we wanted it to be was the same thing. Now, it doesn’t matter what your favorite color is at all. What she was simply pointing out to us is that green is my favorite color and I think I want it to be because I’ve been gathering evidence for a very long time about how much I like green.

I’ve been looking out for green in ways that I value and appreciate. But if I wanted to change my favorite color to yellow, which I did do in this class, I decided to just experiment with it. I absolutely could. I just decided my favorite color is now yellow. And my reticular activating system went to work looking for proof that I like yellow, looking for yellow things that I found to be aesthetically pleasing, looking for reasons to like yellow. And there’s plenty of it out there, plenty of examples of it.

Now, the other thing she had us think about was how many colors there are in the world. And I can’t remember the number but something like 17 decillion colors. If you think about all the possible shades of every color of the rainbow, there’s a lot. Most of us think about 12 to 15 colors when we go to answer that question or seven or eight colors but there’s a lot of colors. So just notice how limited our thinking is. And again, this is because our brains are trying to save energy. So, it’s not coming from a bad place.

It’s just if you step back for a minute and you recognize my brain is only considering the 8 to 12 colors I can even think of off the top of my head, but there are almost limitless possibilities of colors to choose from. And this is true with our lives as well, my friends. Think about the choices that you made in your life that led you to where you are today. I made choices about colleges to attend or not attend. I made choices about jobs to take. I made choices about who to marry and to have children and where to live.

I made a handful of choices that have created the life I have today, a lot of choices, actually, but there’s some that are more obvious than others. And then Brooke had us think about all the choices that we didn’t make. Now, most of us, including myself, started thinking about other choices that we considered in our past, maybe different schools that I considered going to or different relationships I was in and where those paths took me or where they could have taken me had I stayed in certain relationships.

But she said, “Instead of thinking about the choices that you considered, I want you to think about choices that you didn’t even consider, that never even crossed your mind, possibilities that exist and how many of those are there?” Oh, my goodness, so, so many, more than we could even count. So, this is fascinating to think about, because if that has been true in our past, that’s also true in our future. The choices that are available to us today and for our future are beyond what we’re considering as we just go through our day-to-day routines. Good to know.

Now, another class I took recently was a workshop with Dr. Benjamin Hardy on rapid transformation. And Dr. Hardy, who has become a friend of mine and is just such an amazing, brilliant guy, has a book coming out about this that I’m so excited for you to get. So, I don’t want to give away what he writes in that book, but he really blew my mind by encouraging me to think about what I’m letting go of. What things do I need to let go of to become the next version of me?

And what’s tempting to do is to let go of a few things, let go of the things that I can see are obviously not working and not serving me. But what Dr. Hardy encourages us to do is to let go of 80% of what we’re doing and a lot of that 80% is going to include things that are working well today. Why would we let go of, and when I say let go of, I’m talking about your actions, but I’m also talking about your belief systems.

Why would we let go of belief systems that are serving us well today, or routines or habits? Well, you don’t have to let go of all of them, but some of them are just going to keep you in the same place. And if you want to have a rapid transformation you have to be willing to let go of even things that are working. It’s super scary to do. I love the way Dr. Hardy describes this and it really does stretch my thinking in so many different ways.

So let me give you some practical examples here for a minute. I talked about the housing market for a little bit. So, my family and I are actually about to move to San Diego. We’re so excited. I’ve done enough complaining about the weather and decided, let’s just move where it’s like spring all year round. So, we’re moving to San Diego. And so, we’ve been paying attention to the housing market. I don’t try to believe something like it’s a super easy market, especially in San Diego. Nobody wants to move there and it’s very affordable.

Those thoughts are not believable to me, but the thought, it’s really hard to buy a house. It’s very competitive. The interest rates are so high. The prices are crazy, whatever. All of those kinds of thoughts that people try to offer me, I’m just like, “No, I don’t think I’m going to go with that story.” So, what I chose to believe was that we will find the right house, the perfect house at the perfect time and it will work out. I don’t need the whole housing market to be easy to navigate or to even be working in my favor. I just need one house. That’s all I’m trying to buy right now, one house.

And the perfect house will come along at the perfect time and sure enough it did. And I still, even though I believed that and that was the thought I led with and that was the energy that my husband and I went house hunting from. I still look now at the house that we are able to buy and even our agent who helped us is like, “I can’t believe you got this house.” And I really do attribute it to choosing to believe something that most people don’t walk around believing. Most people are looking for what’s true outside of them.

I, when possible, as much as possible, choose to believe what’s true inside me, I do, and it serves me really well to do so. Many of you have heard me tell the story about wanting to speak at Time Out for Women and not knowing how I was going to make that happen and just choosing to believe that I would. And even when it felt like the paths that I thought would take me there weren’t leading me there, I just kept on believing it. And I nurtured that belief and I let it be true in my mind and I didn’t get really caught up on how or when, and I was very patient and it took many, many years actually.

And I was able to speak at the last Time Out for Women tour. It was their 20th anniversary and then they discontinued Time Out for Women. What are the odds? Your beliefs are creating your reality, my friends. You are creating your reality by filtering with your reticular activating system and then contributing to it, even in ways you’re not conscious of all the time. So, listen, I just want to give you permission right now to believe what you want to believe and to tell you that you don’t have to have any proof, you don’t.

Again, I don’t try to believe things that I genuinely don’t believe, but I can usually find a belief that I’m like, “I kind of believe that.” I’m going to focus on that. I’m going to let that be true, and I just want to give you permission to do the same. You don’t need outside proof. You don’t need to know how. You don’t need to know when. You’re allowed to just believe whatever you want.

Now, I want to talk about doubt for a minute because I coach a lot of people who are trying, especially my entrepreneur friends, they’re trying to believe in their ability to achieve their goals. And I coach a lot of you trying to believe that you can change your eating habits and your exercise routine and your health. And sometimes it’s challenging because doubt comes up and says, “I don’t know”, especially when things don’t work out how we thought they were going to then that doubt comes back. It’s okay, that doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong.

I don’t want you to feel bad when you have doubt. Doubt is part of the deal as well. You just have to keep your belief a little bit stronger than your doubt. So, you might have a day when you let yourself have some doubt, but I wouldn’t overly indulge in it. I would just kind of let it be there in the background. I wouldn’t run away with it in your mind. Again, if your belief is just a little bit stronger than your doubt then you’ll keep going and you’ll build evidence for your belief. And you will create results that support your belief and you will find external evidence as well.

So just keep your belief a little bit stronger than your doubt. Now, I want you to think about this for just a minute, that we have a lot of amazing tools and resources and just a lot of knowledge and modern conveniences in our world that to us just feel ordinary and every day and so they’re very believable. I could have a house that has lights and I could just flip a switch and lights will come on. And even if the sun is down and it’s dark outside, I will be able to see anything I want to see in my house because of a switch that I just flip on.

That’s so ordinary to us because that’s the world we were born into and have lived in forever but that wasn’t always the case. And somebody had to believe that it was possible before it was actually possible in the world. Somebody had to believe it, even though they had no proof, they had no business believing it. They just believed that it was possible to create it and then they went to work until they created it.

Every modern convenience and thing that we have that makes our life better and easier, somebody had to believe it before they could create it, they had to believe it was possible. And they didn’t have any proof, and it wasn’t realistic at all. Thank goodness there are people who do this. And you don’t have to go to that extreme.

The things that I’m trying to believe are not things that nobody’s done, they’re just things that I haven’t done, but I can rely on other people’s success. And I can rely on the proof that I get by looking at how other people have done it. Now, if your brain’s like mine, it wants to go, “Yeah, but you’re not as smart as them. You’re a lot older. You’re probably too old or you’re too young or you’re just not whatever enough.” That’s just normal brain chatter.

I just let it kind of be there and I’m like, “Yeah, I don’t know, we’ll see. They’re a human being. I’m a human being. It’s probably possible for me if it’s possible for them.” I’m just choosing to believe that it is. So just know that again, whatever you’re trying to believe, people have had to believe things to innovate and to make our world better from the beginning of time and that will always be the case. So please let yourself be one of the brave ones who believes things that are ‘unrealistic’.

I use this analogy a lot when I’m coaching people who are trying to believe things. We use the analogy of a newborn baby because they’ll say things like, “Yeah, I was really feeling good about this and really believing it. And then I talked to my friends and they said, “Well, don’t forget about this and also this might be hard and there’s this thing that you haven’t considered.” And suddenly now my doubt feels stronger than my belief today.”

And so, what I always tell people is, “Listen, when you’re trying to practice believing something, you haven’t been thinking that thought over and over again yet. You haven’t collected enough evidence yet. You haven’t created any proof for yourself of it. It’s like a newborn baby, it’s very fragile.”

And we don’t take our newborn babies out and pass them around to everyone to hold because that newborn is fragile and we don’t want it to get sick. We wait till it’s a little stronger, till it’s been around a little while and its lungs are a little more developed and we know that it’s a little healthier, a little stronger, has a little bit stronger immune system. And then we might let someone else hold our baby. Think about when you have your newborn and you’re like, “Wash your hands”, even when that’s someone in your family going to hold the baby, we have to wash our hands.

This is how your new belief is, it’s very fragile, don’t just pass it around to everyone. Just share it with people who you know are going to be gentle and tender and you know who those people are? They are the people who are also up for believing unrealistic things and/or your coach. Come and tell it to me. I’m really good at helping you believe what you want to believe. I’m really good at even helping you find evidence and proof for it if I think it’s going to serve you. But don’t just pass it around to anyone until it gets stronger because momentum matters.

If the person that you’re telling your belief system to has really strong beliefs that are contrary to yours, and they have more momentum around the doubt than you have around the belief. Then it’s hard not to get washed away in the doubt that they’re offering you. So, until your momentum is strong enough that it can stand up to someone else’s belief system, you want to protect it.

So last thing I just want to tell you is, as I’ve been teaching this over the years, I still remember a live workshop I did years ago. And we were talking about this and I was coaching someone and this girl who is now a successful coach herself, by the way, she said to me, “Wait a second. Are you saying we can just believe anything we want to?” And I said, yeah. And she had this big smile, this light bulb went off in her head when she realized. I can just believe anything I want to about myself, about my future, about my family, about my job about, my house. I can just believe anything I want to.

And I said, “Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.” And it’s been fun to watch her create such an extraordinary life since that moment. I want to offer you that moment today, too, that you genuinely literally can believe anything that you want. If you want help, find a coach, find a good coach who is trained in paying attention to your belief systems, not just an accountability coach.

I have no problem with accountability. I like accountability actually, it can be useful in a lot of ways. But you need someone who’s also able to help you believe totally unrealistic, impossible things if you want to see your life explode in the best possible way. Alright, thanks for joining me today. I’ll see you next week. Take care. Bye.

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The post 462. 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned Part 4: Beliefs appeared first on Jody Moore.

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The amount of noise most of us have in our heads about money is unbelievable. I literally can’t get over how much drama the topic of money brings with it. Money is one of those topics we either stay in the struggle of or use as an opportunity to grow because it’s not something we can really opt out of participating in.

With the tens of thousands of people I’ve coached, there is no correlation between how much money a person has and the money story they tell themselves. Even the wealthiest people have scarcity beliefs and unhelpful stories around money. The way many of us were raised about money is keeping us in shame, judgment, or just stuck.

Tune in this week to discover the most valuable lessons I’ve learned about money from my 10 years as a coach. I share how your thoughts about yourself and your beliefs about money become unintentionally intertwined, how to identify your thoughts about building wealth, and you’ll learn the four most helpful ways of looking at money that I’ve come across in my 10 years of coaching.

If you and your spouse have a challenging time communicating about certain topics without a fight, you need to come to my newest masterclass, How to Stop Fighting with Your Spouse. It’s happening on Tuesday, May 21st 2024, so click here to register today!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What I mean when I talk about “growing” when to comes to money. * Some of the unhelpful beliefs you may have picked up around money as you grew up. * Why you need to intentionally decide what you want to believe about money. * How your problematic beliefs about money might be coming from your problematic beliefs about yourself. * Why I want to create wealth, and how to get clear on your reasons for wanting or not wanting to create wealth. * 4 valuable money lessons from 10 years of coaching.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!

Welcome to episode 461, 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned: Money. I literally can’t believe how much noise most of us have in our heads about money. And with the tens of thousands of people I’ve coached, there is no correlation between how much money the person has and their money story. So many quite wealthy people have a lot of scarcity beliefs. And more than anything as a whole, the way many of us were raised and our beliefs about money are keeping us in shame, judgment or just stuck.

Today I’m sharing some of the biggest takeaways from the work I do and the people who join me as we figure it out. Are you ready? Here we go.

Well, hello everybody, welcome to another episode, during our 10 year anniversary/birthday celebration of being in business here at Jody Moore Coaching. Ten years ago today, in May 2014, I got certified as a life coach. And my life changed forever for the better. I’m so grateful for that experience and for what it’s allowed me to create in my own life personally, in my relationships, in my family. And how it’s allowed me to develop an understanding and an interest in all of these topics that I share with you here on the podcast.

And I’m equally grateful to all of you for tuning in and listening and talking about what you’re learning here and sending me questions. Which, by the way, I haven’t answered a question from the podcast hotline in a while but if you want to leave me a question, I will be doing some of that once we get through the month of May of our 10 year lessons. And you can do that @888hijodym.

Okay, so we’re talking about money. And I want to begin by just reiterating what I kind of said in the intro, which is I literally cannot get over how much drama we have in our heads about money. And it’s one of those topics that we are forced to either just stay in the struggle of or use it as an opportunity to grow because we can’t really just opt out of it altogether. It’s pretty tough to do anyway. I think there are some people who ‘live off the grid’ and maybe they totally opt out of participating in money.

But for most people, listening to this podcast, it’s probably not an option that you want to choose. We can’t just not use money. It’s the way, not just within the United States of America, but many of you are listening in other countries and we all have our own versions of money and things like that. But it’s how we exchange value in the world, and it’s a necessary part of even our basic survival. And so this means that it’s going to come up.

I think of this the same way I think about people and food. If you have drama with people, which we all do at least at times, it’s really tough to just not have people in your life anymore. When I’m talking to teenagers who talk about how much they hate doing group work at school and how they can’t wait to be done with school so they don’t have to do group projects anymore.

I’m like, “Oh, shoot, heads up, you’re going to have ‘group projects’ your entire life in some form or another, whether they be in your home, with the people you live with, with your roommates, with the people that you work with.” It’s pretty tough. I guess you could go live on a deserted island, but again, most of us don’t want to do that. So we have to work through our people stuff or we suffer with it, and maybe we do some of both and same with food.

Getting yourself to eat healthy, eat the way you want to, change your eating habits, that’s a tough thing to do. We can’t just be like, “You know what? I’m done with food”, and opt out of food. We’ve got to eat food to survive. So anyway, money is one of those things. And I love that about it because it means it’s a great opportunity for growth. Now, listen, you might be sick of hearing coaches like me say, “Don’t you just love growing.” This growth thing is so good for us. So if that makes you cringe, I get it.

Sometimes I feel that way too. I’m like, “Listen, I’ve had enough growing for a while, I’d like to just coast and stay the same.” So I hear you. It’s fine to feel that way. I just want to define the way I think about growth when it comes to money because like I said, our only option is growing to a peaceful place. If you’re not in a peaceful place, you are continuing to suffer.

So what I mean by growing when it comes to money is to number one, intentionally become who you want in your relationship with money. So we were all taught certain things about money. We had examples from the people we were around when we were growing up and we gathered ideas about money from either things that they literally said to us, but even more so from what we observed in our environments about money. And that’s okay but I want you at some point, have to intentionally choose how you want to think about money.

There might be things that you were taught or witnessed that serve you really well that you want to keep, maybe even a lot of it, you want to keep, great. Just decide on purpose, I want to keep that belief about money. I want to keep thinking about debt this way or about revenue this way or about expenses this way or about cash or about investing. You can keep anything you want. If there’s anything that you don’t want to keep, you don’t have to. You can simply decide. I choose to no longer believe that about money.

I dismiss that belief from my life and from my mind. And you do your very best to put it out of your mind and choose not to believe it anymore. You can do that as well. Some of you are going to have, majority of what you taught, you choose to dismiss. And some of you maybe just have a little bit of it that again either you were taught it or you just picked it up in some way, probably unconsciously when you were younger, at some point in your life. So that’s the first thing, intentionally decide what you want to think and who you want to be with money.

And that’s what we do in the coaching that I’m offering. So I hope that my clients are experiencing that. The next thing that I think about when I talk about our growth, when it comes to money, is improving your relationship with yourself. Not everyone has this issue, but a lot of people have this issue where the way they think about money, or some of the problematic beliefs they have about money, I should say, are coming from their problematic beliefs about themselves.

They make money mean something about themself, whether or not they have what they feel is a lot of money, or they feel that they don’t have enough money and they should have more money or they want more money. They make that mean something about themselves and their own value and their own worth. And that is damaging, even if you’re like, “I have tons of money because I’m so great. I’m amazing. I’m smart, I’m capable.” Well, we might think that would feel good to believe that.

It actually feels scary to believe that. I’ve coached people and I have coach friends who have coached people as well. We’ve had conversations about this. It’s so fascinating how the brain does this thing. People who have a lot of money and feel that that means something about their worth or value, feel afraid, as they should. Because if it’s true that your money means something about your worth, then if your money changes your worth has changed. And so that’s shaky ground to live from.

More commonly, I see people that don’t have as much money as they would like, and they make it mean that they are weak or bad or wrong or uncapable or something negative about themselves. So this is an opportunity to clean that up. It doesn’t mean any of that. It can mean all kinds of things. The one thing I know it doesn’t mean is anything about your worth or value, period, the end. It’s not good or bad or right or wrong or amazing and noble or shameful and disappointing, it just is.

Okay, so, so much drama around money, which is why I love helping people with their money because it gives us a chance to access that part of yourself that is really worth working on. So let’s talk about wealth for just a minute, because I’m going to give you some things that are going to contribute to helping you create more wealth if you want to create more wealth.

So before I share those things that I’ve observed in the last 10 years, I want to speak to the idea of generating wealth in and of itself, because I think that we often forget to pause and ask this question. It’s like that line in Jurassic Park when Jeff Goldblum’s character says, “We spent so much time trying to figure out how to recreate dinosaurs that we didn’t pause to ask ourselves whether or not we should.” And I like you to pause and ask yourself whether or not you should or want to, for example, with something like this. Do we want to create more wealth? I personally do.

I love creating wealth in my life and in my family and I want to continue to create more of it, but I’m not here to say that everybody should. So the reasons why, are how you check yourself, what are my reasons why or what are my reasons why not? So I like to create wealth because I think it’s fun. I think it’s actually a fun, fulfilling, rewarding way to live, to try to figure out how do I create more value? How do I do more good? How do I help more people?

How do I create more compelling offers that help people solve the problems they want to solve or create the kind of joy and pleasure and happiness that people want in their life? How do I create more of that? Because asking myself those questions requires a lot of me. And it requires that I use a creative and critical thinking part of my brain that otherwise I prefer to just shut off. But when I do use it, I feel myself learn and grow and expand and not to mention, having money on the other side of that is fun. It does make a lot of problems easier to solve.

It does make your life more expansive. It does give more freedom. It does provide more opportunities for me personally as I create more wealth and for my family and loved ones and people that are impacted by it. The next reason is, I do believe that creating more wealth is expansive, not just for me, but it also lifts other people as well. So the bigger I grow my business, the more people I can hire and pay money to. So that they then have more wealth in their families and can go do whatever they choose to do with that, create goodness, create value, or use it to purchase the things that they want and need.

So I think that creating more wealth serves everyone because I understand that wealth is available and is unlimited. I don’t feel that I’m taking money away from someone. If someone pays me money, then they’ve given me money that I can now pay to someone else for a good or service or something that I value. And then that person can pay that money to someone else and that money can be exchanged an infinite number of times. That’s why wealth is available at an infinite level because we can all keep exchanging the value an infinite number of times.

So at any rate, I don’t want to get too deep into that. I’m just sharing with you the way I think about money. You can take it or leave it. But some of you are going to decide, I don’t want to create wealth and that’s totally fine. You don’t have to be seeking and when I say creating more wealth, I mean, increasing your net worth, for example, might be a good way to think about it. That does not have to be your goal by any means for you to still have a really healthy, positive relationship with money that isn’t keeping you stuck or moving you into a place of shame or judging others or anything like that.

You can decide that you don’t want to increase your net worth or accumulate more wealth, but again, we would know that coming from a healthy place by checking out your reasons. If your reasons are coming from a bunch of limiting beliefs, I’m going to call them, a very self-help term but it is the best way to describe it, meaning beliefs that you think are true that are limiting your potential, that’s what a limiting belief is.

So if it’s coming from limiting beliefs, it will take too long. I don’t have that much time. It will require me to work super hard and I don’t want to work hard. It’s greedy. It’s some kind of judgment of yourself or judgment of others. If it’s coming from thoughts like that, I would just suggest you question them and clean them up.

But it might be coming, and I do know a couple of people in my life who I feel have really clean, healthy relationships with money for the most part. None of us are perfect at it, but pretty solid relationships with money and have zero desire to, let’s say, increase their net worth. And the way that they think about it, the reason for not wanting to create more is because they just don’t want to do what’s needed. It’s slightly different than I’ll have to work really long and hard.

If there are people who are like, “No, I get it. It’s actually not that much work. There’s a lot of creative ways I could add a lot of value and not have to overwork myself. I just don’t want to do even the basics. What I’m doing right now is great. I like doing what I’m doing. I don’t want to do something different. I don’t want to think creatively. I don’t want to figure out how to add more value. I’m just happy where I am.” Cool. I think that’s a great reason and I love it when people just tell themselves the truth like that.

Again, there’s no reason to go chase the next level just because a lot of other people are. That’s actually not a good reason. Again, these people that are coming to my mind, they just don’t find it that interesting. Look, all of us want to be challenged in some way. But the way that they want to be challenged might have nothing to do with making money. In other words, it might not be in their business or might not be in their job. They’re not interested in, I wonder how to move up in my company.

They’re still going to challenge themselves in other ways, but it might be through hobbies or just things they learn about because they’re interesting that they choose not to monetize. That’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful way to live your life. No problem with that at all. And then the last one I’ve heard before and I don’t know, maybe this is a limiting belief now that I’m about to say it out loud.

But some of my friends who I feel have really healthy mindsets about money are just like, “I just don’t want to complicate my life. And so accumulating more wealth and increasing my net worth might complicate my life.” I don’t know. I guess I’m not wealthy enough to have the vantage point to be able to confidently say, “No, you can be super wealthy and not complicate your life.” But my guess is there are people that would say that.

If you have a reason you like, it doesn’t matter if it’s a limiting belief or not. If you’re like, “I like that reason and I don’t walk around feeling sorry for myself all the time talking about how I wish I had more money. I just choose to be happy where I am.” Cool, I’m in. For everybody else, you still can be happy where you are. In fact, I highly recommend it, that you be grateful and happy and delighted with where you are financially and otherwise and decide it might be cool to increase your net worth or to add more wealth.

So, I want to give you four things to consider that again, I’ve just observed in the many, many people I’ve coached and the things that I’ve studied and learned about money. Are you ready?

So first of all I want you to think about money as a result. And what I’ve noticed is that any time we become too fixated on a result, we can create problems or slow ourselves down. So when it comes to money, sometimes being overly fixated on it means we’re overly driven by money. If, let’s say, I decide to try some kind of new business venture, and I think it’s perfectly fine to want to make money in your business venture and to have that be even a big part of your motivation for it.

But if that’s too much of your motivation, if you’re not also passionate and excited about what you do, what you offer to people. And really believing in your product or your service and excited and fulfilled by the transformation or changes or benefits that you provide. Then just being driven by money is going to be a tough way to go. It’s going to make it really tough to succeed in that business venture.

The other thing that I see this look like though, is sometimes people say, “Yeah, I’m starting this business.” I hear this a lot with coaches because I work with a lot of coaches in coach access at The Lab, which you should come and join me in, by the way, if you’re not in there.

I hear coaches say all the time, “I don’t really care about the money. I’m not doing it for the money.” And that’s fine too. You don’t have to be driven by money or money doesn’t even have to be a primary motivator for you. But that’s a different side of the same coin. When we make the money be so significant, either I really want the money or I don’t care and I don’t want the money. It’s sort of toxic either way, it can be anyway.

Whereas what we want to do is back up from that result a little bit and understand that if we’re trying to start a business venture, even if it’s a non-profit business, we’re going to need money first of all to even just make the business run, it’s going to require money. And so we’ve got to make money in order to fund the business. And if you want to also make additional money to have as revenue, that’s okay too.

So if you don’t want a business, if you just want to do some service, if you want to serve people and help people, that’s amazing and good. Just don’t fool yourself, you want to tell yourself the truth because otherwise then we get frustrated and we have shame or judgment about our little side hustle, people call it. And they’re like, “Well, I’m not charging for it.” And then they’re embarrassed to say that and they think there’s nothing wrong with that. Don’t call it that. Just call it what it is to yourself, at least. It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.

But call it what it is, which is I’m choosing to serve in this way. And I’m even willing to put in the time and whatever resources I think are necessary to serve in the way I want to serve. And I cover that out of my own resources. Your time is a resource. Your money is a resource. Your knowledge and skills are a resource.

If you’re willing to cover that and just serve people, beautiful. But if you’re going to start a business or a side hustle, it’s okay to be again, somewhat motivated by money. But if you’re overly fixated on that, probably be challenging. Also, if you’re just kind of afraid of that and backing away, you just want to question that as well. Does that make sense?

The next thing I want to teach you is what I’m going to call a wealth mindset and there’s a poverty mindset. Now, I know that is very binary and I don’t mean to make it so. It’s sort of a continuum, where you might be leaning more towards one or the other. Don’t use this to overly judge yourself or to create a limiting belief for yourself. But I’m going to use those terms, wealth mindset and poverty mindset because I notice people who operate from a wealth mindset have a much easier time creating wealth.

And people operating from a poverty mindset have a much harder time creating wealth. And even if you don’t have wealth, it feels like how can I operate from a wealth mindset? If I don’t have wealth, if I don’t have enough money, if I’m barely scraping by or I’m not getting by, I’m going into debt in order to just cover my living expenses, how can I operate from a wealth mindset? You can. I’m not talking about your actions in the world. Your actions are going to change based on how much money you have.

But your mindset can be in a place of wealth even before your money changes, and then your money will catch up. I am telling you, I have witnessed this over and over and over again for myself personally and for many of my clients. So what is a wealth mindset? Well, a poverty mindset, first of all, believes that money is your most valuable resource. And it makes sense that we believe that if we have not enough money to live off of. And live off of, I mean, buy groceries, let’s say, and cover our basic living expenses.

If I don’t have enough money to do those things, of course, my brain starts viewing money as my most valuable asset. And I start needing to hold on to money and figure out money at the expense of a lot of other things. A wealth mindset on the other hand, money is still a valuable resource, but it’s not your most valuable resource. There are two things that are more valuable in a wealth mindset than money. One of them is time and another one is what I’m going to call your energy. But I want you to think of it as mental energy for the most part.

Nowadays it’s mental energy, which would include things like figuring something out, having to remember things, chatter in your head, and even creativity and idea generation. So time and energy are more valuable in a wealth mindset than money. How could that be? How could your time and your energy be more valuable? Well, because your time is limited. Each of us has a certain number of hours and minutes in a day. And we cannot buy more but what we can do is maximize those 24 hours with money.

So people talk about buying back your time. That’s what we mean. We don’t get more than 24 hours, but we can utilize those 24 hours in a more efficient way that can generate more money by spending money. I’m going to give you some examples in a minute. Obviously at a certain point in life, you can start hiring out the tasks that don’t make you money such as cleaning your house, cooking meals, grocery shopping, running errands.

There might be things that you don’t want to do, you don’t enjoy doing, and you know they’re not revenue generating and so you choose to hire them out. That is a wealth mindset. But before you get to that point, if you’re like, “I can’t afford to hire a housekeeper and pay someone to do my grocery shopping and all that.” You can still work on your mindset. Here’s how I would pay attention to it.

When you are buying something at Old Navy and they say to you, “Hey, would you like to sign up for our credit card? If you sign up for our credit card today, then you’re going to save yourself”, I don’t know, let’s say $30. Depends on how much you’re buying and it depends on what their offer is on that particular day. And maybe you’re also going to get these points that you can apply in the future and that will save you an extra whatever amount of dollars.

And if you’re in a poverty mindset, that’s going to sound like a great deal, going to sound like why wouldn’t I? All I have to do is sign up for this thing. It doesn’t cost me anything. They’ll even say, “It doesn’t take long. It takes just a few minutes to get pre-approved.” I don’t know, I picked Old Navy only because I was there recently and someone offered me that. But all kinds of stores do this. So I’m not picking on Old Navy, I love Old Navy.

So in a poverty mindset, it would sound like, why wouldn’t I do that? In a wealth mindset you would realize that even though it may not take long right now. It is going to take some time and to me, what is a bigger tax on my life at this point is the energy required to go figure out where to set up a payment on that bill. And this is what they’ll say, because I’ll say that sometimes, “Yeah, I just don’t want to have to deal with paying it back and everything. I’ll just pay it now.”

And they’ll go, “Oh, no, it’s really easy. You can just go pay it off as soon as it gets posted, as soon as the bill comes, you just pay the whole thing off and you can never use it again if you want, and that’s fine.” But here’s the thing, now I have an open line of credit. I have to keep track of that card. I know these feel like little, tiny deductions, just put it in your wallet and forget about it. No. Then I open my wallet and I have one more card to sort through to find the card, the debit card or whatever that I need.

If I’m going to get rid of it, I have to go remember to cut up that card and get rid of it so that somebody else doesn’t get a hold of it and charge up a bunch of stuff on it. If I’m going to set up autopay, if I’m going to use that card more than once, then if anything changes with my bank account, I’ve got to go figure that out. It is a little thing, I get it. It’s not worth it. I don’t want to have to still think about this clothing purchase beyond today. I want to purchase these clothes and walk home.

I’ve said to people before, salespeople hate me because I will say things, they’re like, “But you could save $30.” And I’m like, “I will pay you $30 for me to not have to think about this purchase again after this moment.” That’s how much I don’t want this card. And that’s what I’m doing. That’s what I’m saying. I’m willing to pay the extra $30 to not have the tax on my time and my energy. And there’s a reason that they so want people to sign up, because they know that most people won’t do those things. Most people won’t pay it off right away.

And most people will use it again and they’ll end up paying interest on it and they’re going to make a profit off of this. So even if I consider myself not most people, if I’m thinking in a wealth mindset, the answer is no, thank you. I don’t want this coupon, this thing. Now, I’m not saying you can never sign up for anything. If you’re like, “This is going to be simple enough and easy enough, I’m willing to pay with my time and energy for this thing to save some money.” There are times when you might choose that, when it makes sense.

But any time I do that, I just own it for myself. I’m choosing to do this, but this choice is coming from a poverty mindset. And I don’t beat myself up about it because I’m not always in a wealth mindset. Sometimes I still go to scarcity. Sometimes I still have a poverty mindset. But a wealth mindset is, my most valuable resources are my time and my energy because I can use those to make more money. Good to know.

Let’s talk about the next thing I want to teach you that I’ve noticed is so powerful to think about with money, which is the best way and this also comes from a wealth mindset. The best way to make money is by adding value in the world. The more value you can add to someone’s life, the more money you can make.

And I was on a call today in The Lab coach access, where I help coaches build their businesses, which we’re running a special on during the month of May because we just launched it. So go check it out at jodymoore.com/coachaccess. Shameless plug because I want all my coaches’ friends in there. But anyway, we were on a call and the sweet girl who came on the call, she got a little bit emotional. She said that she’d never been coached by me before, but that she had read my book a couple of years ago and it changed her life. And then she dove in and she got certified as a coach.

And she’s now running her own coaching practice. And she was emotional telling me how I’ve changed her life, which is so generous and kind and a gross overstatement. This work changed her life and she changed her life and God changed her life. I just got to be one very minor side character in her story. But still it’s awesome and cool, and I realized, I in some tiny way added value to her life by doing my work. And now she’s adding value to other people’s lives.

That’s why my financial situation’s gotten so much better because I’ve added exponential value without even realizing it all the time. It wasn’t always planned and strategic, but that kind of exponential value adds exponential worth in ways I never even expected. So adding value is my favorite way anyway to create wealth. There are other ways you can create wealth. You can take advantage of people, you can rip people off, but I know nobody listening to this wants to do that.

And there are a lot of things that people do that add value in the world that don’t get directly rewarded with wealth. I want to acknowledge that there are a lot of jobs, there’s a lot of volunteer work, there’s a lot of things happening in the world that is good, amazing value add work that doesn’t get directly compensated for.

But I do believe if you have a good relationship with money and you’re up for figuring out how to align the two, the value that you want to add with the financial compensation that the marketplace will provide, that you can create a lot of wealth. Anyway, something to think about. Again, a lot of people and before I thought about money the way I do now, before these 10 years of coaching clients, they view money as something that you get for trading your time.

We exchange time for money at some point. And there are some jobs that are structured that way, but I promise you, it’s not just your time. If you show up and put in the time and you don’t add the value to the organization that they’re looking for, they’re not just going to pay you for your time. So just think about how do you want to think about money in general when it comes to how we earn it.

The last thing I want to say, and this is just a realization I had just this week. I was talking to somebody who I have worked with before. So just by way of background information, this is somebody who I respect and value. I think that they have good ideas and good opinions and we’ve worked together, I trust this person. But we were discussing a potential marketing strategy that I was considering. And I had one idea about how to do it and this person who’s an expert in the strategy way more than me had a different idea.

And we were sort of going back and forth, discussing, yeah, but what about this and what about that? And again, I totally trust this person’s expertise when it comes to the strategy of this particular marketing channel. But I couldn’t get my head feeling good about this method. Not because I think it’s dishonest or wrong or bad or anything like that. It just didn’t feel like me. I was like, “I don’t know how I could do that in a way that would feel authentic and genuine, that I could feel good about the work I was creating, that I could feel excited about sending people to it, even.”

And this gentleman said something to me about, “You don’t have to worry about sending people, the algorithm’s going to take care of it. The algorithm will send people. You don’t even have to talk about it.” And later on after I got off that phone call and that discussion, I was thinking, why does that not sit well with me? Because I am a marketing person. I am a strategy person and I preach sometimes similar concepts. So why am I struggling to feel good about this?

And I realized, it’s because more than the algorithm of any marketing channel I believe in the algorithm of the universe, I really do. If I can’t get myself to feeling excited and confident and passionate, ideally at times, and motivated about what I’m doing, the algorithm of the universe will play out such that it will not succeed for me. I genuinely believe that to be true. Now, why am I talking about this today? Because this connects back to wealth. So how do I generate wealth? You connect to the algorithm of the universe.

The more abundant you feel, the more grateful you feel, the more you recognize the abundance that is literally your life, you woke up today. If you didn’t go hungry today, unless you chose to go hungry for some reason, you’re choosing to fast for a health reason or a spiritual reason or whatever else. If you are not hungry today and not worried about how you’re going to feed your children, you are wealthy. If you have electricity, you’re wealthy.

If you have clean drinking water, all you do is lift up a lever or turn a knob and clean water comes out, you’re rich, you are. When you recognize that and you feel the abundance and you feel the gratitude and you feel the peace and security. This is what I hear a lot of people say, “I want to make more money because I want to feel secure. I want to feel more secure.” And I say, “Listen, as soon as you give yourself permission to feel secure, you will find it much easier to make more money.” I promise this is true. That is the algorithm of the universe, my friends.

I am a huge fan of all things law of attraction and manifesting and all of the woo woo stuff. And if you don’t like that, cool, just disregard this one. But I can’t explain in any other way that I have been able to generate wealth and watch people around me generate incredible amounts of wealth. It doesn’t make any sense at all. So there you go, money.

I’m going to give one last shameless plug for The Lab coach access only because just a couple of weeks ago or not even that long, just recently I taught a course in there all about money. For those of you that are coaches, we talk a little more about this money mindset, but I went into, how do you know how much you should charge? And how do you know whether or not you should give things away for free, when should you? Which the answer is sometimes you should by the way, I think, or you could, it might make sense to.

And when do you charge? And how do you get over it if you’re so uncomfortable charging and talking about your price, how do you get over that drama? What is that about? What’s going on there? And then how do you address it when other people say, “I don’t have the money. I can’t afford that. It’s too expensive.” So we did lots of tactical strategic kind of training in there, but also some of the mindset work.

So for those of you in The Lab coach access, go check that out if you missed it, it’s posted in there. If you’re not in there, if you join by the end of May, you will get access to that class as well. I would love to help you with your money stuff. Alright, thanks for joining me, I’ll see you next week. Have a beautiful week everyone, bye bye.

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The post 461. 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned Part 3: Money appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I got certified as a coach in May 2014, which marks 10 years of Jody Moore Coaching! To celebrate my business’s 10th birthday, I’m sharing some of the most valuable lessons I’ve learned helping thousands of clients in my programs and millions more through this podcast.

All month long, you’ll hear the biggest life and business lessons I’ve picked up along the way, and this week, we’re diving into the topic of love. Leaning into love not only feels good, but I truly believe it magnifies our ability to show up as the people we want to be, and I’m sharing some of my insights with you on this episode.

Tune in this week to discover the game-changing lessons I’ve learned about love and the importance of fostering love in our minds. You’ll hear how it’s possible to love people you don’t know, why loving like Jesus will make you successful at anything you try to do, and how purposefully cultivating love for yourself and others will change every single area of your life.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: What I’ve been willing to do on my business-building journey. * How it’s possible to love people you don’t intimately know. * What happens when you think loving thoughts and feel loving emotions. * Why love is a feeling you cultivate for yourself*, not others. * The power of finding lovability in everybody in your life. * Alternative emotions to try on if love feels out of reach. * The difference between loving people and people pleasing. * Why it’s easier to love others when you love yourself.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!
Click here to learn how I created a successful business.

Welcome to episode 460, 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned Part 2: Love. Love like Jesus. Recently my second grade daughter colored a picture of a rainbow and sunshine and birds and she wrote ‘love like Jesus’ on the top of the page. It’s on my fridge still and it’s a great reminder but it’s just not as simple or easy to do as I wish it was. Am I right? This month marks the 10 year birthday of my coaching business, since it was May 2014 when I got certified as a coach and my life changed forever.

First it changed because of the way my mindset and approach to navigating challenges and goals changed. But it also changed because I began offering the same help to others through my business. This month, I’m sharing some of the most valuable lessons I’ve learned over 10 years of helping tens of thousands of clients in my programs and millions more on the podcast. And today’s topic is love. Thanks for celebrating 10 years with me. Here we go.

Hey there, everybody, welcome to another episode in our 10 year birth date month. I think all of us should celebrate our birthdays for a whole month. Why do we not do this? Maybe some of you do. Anyway, it’s not my birthday, it’s the birthday of my business, Jody Moore Coaching. And I was thinking back to 10 years ago, when I first just couldn’t stop talking about the model, about the things I’ve learned at coach training, about the way that all of this work was impacting me and starting a business.

But the reason I hesitate to even say starting a business is because I’m like, “What does that even mean?” I was really just like, “Who wants to learn more about this?” And I started writing a blog. I wanted to share it with people and not that I accidentally built a big business. I did intentionally build a business. But I say that in the loosest, loosest form of that term if there is such a thing. I was definitely all over the place, and I still am many times in my business.

I was definitely not perfect at any of it, in fact, I know some of you struggle with perfectionism. I struggle with the opposite, hot mess ism where I don’t want to slow down and go back and make things better. I just want to throw it out there even if it’s kind of a mess. I think somewhere in between is probably what we all should be aiming for. But at any rate I think my success though, came because I was really willing to do things that a lot of people are not willing to do and I don’t mean stand up all night working really hard.

Here are some of the things I was willing to do. And if you’re a coach, you have a business or you want to start a business or you’re considering becoming a coach or some kind of entrepreneur, similar to what I do. Just ask yourself, are you willing to do things that most people are not willing to do? And you don’t have to do extreme things. You don’t have to do hard things. You just have to do a little bit more than most people are willing to do because most people are actually not willing to do much at all.

Some of the things that I was willing to do and still sometimes have to be willing to do is to first of all figure out technology. I hear this from a lot of coaches because a lot of business happens online now. It’s the most efficient, most affordable, least risky way to get your message out there if you’re some kind of a thought leader or teacher, a coach is to get online on the internet and yet that means we have to figure out technology. I’m not a natural tech person.

I’m an almost 50 year old woman but back when I started my business, that means I was almost 40. I’m not saying that’s old. I’m just saying I wasn’t a 17 year old who naturally picks up technology and just figures it out but I was willing to figure it out. I was willing to use YouTube. Even 10 years ago, when I started doing this, everything I needed to know was on YouTube. That doesn’t mean that it was simple. Sometimes I would struggle with some kind of technology where you connect two of your systems together. I can’t remember the word now.

At any rate, I would first look at the directions and then if I couldn’t figure it out from there, and from playing around with it, then I would go to YouTube. And I would find videos and I would start watching videos until I found one that maybe showed me what to do, and sometimes that would solve it and sometimes it still wouldn’t. And at a certain point I’d have to be like, “Okay, walking away for today, walking away.”

You know that point where you’re just so frustrated, so overwhelmed, not making progress, starting to get angry about it. Which is not a good place to figure out technology from for me anyway. And so I would just be like, “Walk away for today.” And I’d come back the next morning and nine times out of ten, I would figure it out immediately the next morning because I gave myself a break, I walked away. My brain maybe was marinating on what I had learned. And it’s totally doable. So figuring out technology is something I was willing to do.

Thank goodness now I have a team and the main person on my team that figures out technology is my husband because I am that woman, that’s like, “Honey, the TV’s not working. Can you take a look at it?” And I usually don’t have to figure out technology at home or in my business anymore now that my husband works for me but in the beginning, I did and you can.

Okay, the next thing I was willing to do is just keep it simple. Listen, this sounds weird to say I was willing to keep it simple and a lot of people aren’t. Why would we want to complicate things? Why would we want to make it harder? We do. Our brains tend to overcomplicate and make things difficult for all kinds of reasons. We’re like, “Well I don’t want to exclude anyone or I mean that this person is saying I should do this thing and this person’s saying I should do that thing.” And it’s the fear of missing out.

And I was just like, “No, I’m just going to keep this really simple. I have a really simple focus of how I’m going to build this business, and I’m going to stick to that.” And if you want to know what that was, I created a course where I give that away to you for free. And it’s just a quick, I think there’s four videos. They’re each 10 to 15 minutes. If you want to go to jodiesfreetraining.com. You can see exactly what I did, how simple it was to get my business up to multiple six figures before I had to complicate it. I still keep it as simple as possible, but really simple until I was making $300,000 to $400,000.

Next thing, and this kind of goes on with keeping it simple is, I was willing to just pick one teacher or coach and stick with her and go all in on her methods. That doesn’t mean I didn’t modify it a little bit. But what I see a lot of people do is they learn from five people and then it’s confusing because those five people might be teaching 80% of the same things, but there are 20% where they disagree or differ on strategies. And then again, you’re just confused about what to do. And this person says that. But this person says that and they’re both successful. So what do I do? I just don’t know.

My teacher and coach was and still is Brooke Castillo. Although unfortunately I don’t get to work with her as closely as I used to but I still am and any program she offers I just buy. She is my main, in my mind, my main teacher and coach. And she was the one and she said, “Try this.” And I just did it. Again, that does mean I didn’t get on YouTube and have to figure some stuff out, but in terms of overall strategy, my person was Brooke Castillo.

So anyway, maybe you have a person like that, stick with them. If you don’t, part of our 10 year anniversary celebration is a brand new portion of The Lab that is for coaches who want to build businesses. And it’s simply The Lab coach access. And because it’s our 10 year birthday to celebrate for the month of May, you can get in the door at half price. And you will keep your half price payment as long as you stay in the program. So head to jodymoore.com/coachaccess if you want to check that out.

Next thing I was willing to do is be patient. I’m not always willing to be patient. I’ve got to work on that in some areas of my life. Oh, my gosh, my eight year old daughter the other day, she’s just this tiny little thing. She’s eight but she seems younger because of how petite she is and sort of quiet and timid. And she said to her 10 year old brother, “Sorry, I’m just not very patient today.” Which was so sweet.

And anyway, with my coaching business I was willing to be patient, meaning I was like, “This is going to take some time. It might take me a while to find the people that want to learn this, might take me a while to figure out how to get my business set up, might take me some time because I’m not willing to overwork myself, I’m not willing to not spend time with my family. I’m not willing to lose sleep and not take care of myself, so might take some time. Alright, that’s cool.”

Ironically enough, I think I achieved success faster than a lot of people around me because I was willing for it to take time. So anyway, be patient. You’ve got to be patient.

And then finally, this will segue into the topic I want to talk about today. I just wanted to celebrate my past self a little bit. I hope that you do this. I hope you look back and celebrate your past self because you have many wins and many successes. And I think it’s useful to take time to go, “Why was I successful at that? What did I do that was so useful in that area?” Because obviously we want to repeat those things in other areas.

At any rate, the last thing is, and this speaks to overall my ability to be effective with people when I coach them and that is to tell people the truth. It’s one of the things that makes coaching so powerful. For those of you that are in The Lab, that hear coaching with my team and I ongoing, you know this. People come to us asking us to tell them the truth. That’s what coaching is.

If I hire an interior designer to come over and help me with my house, I don’t want her to walk around my house and go, “It looks really good. I love what you’ve done here.” I want her to go, “You know what? It doesn’t make sense that you have a table in this room. This room would be better utilized if we put a couch and some chairs in here. It could make for a nice sitting area. And you’ve got too much furniture here or you need something here to spruce this area up.” I want her to tell me the truth.

I want my friends to come over and say, “I love what you’ve done with the place.” But I want my interior designer to tell me the truth so that we can make it better. And that’s how coaching is. So when people come to me and tell me about their struggles in their life, in their relationships, with their confidence, in their business, in their health, in their parenting, etc. They are asking me to tell them the truth. And that’s a hard thing for some coaches to do.

They’re worried that they’re going to offend someone, or that the person’s not going to like them or that they’re not going to want to hear what they have to say. And that’s something that you can get better at with practice. Again, depending on how you were trained and what your approach is as a coach, there are lots of tools that can help you with it, and some of it will just take you figuring it out your way. But I was willing and I still am willing to tell people the truth and the reason why is because I care about them. In fact, I love them. I love my clients.

How can I love people I don’t even know? Which, by the way, this will segment us into today’s topic of love. How do I love these people I don’t even know? And is that true? When people stand up in front of a crowd and they say, “I love you”, is that true, do they love you? I actually end a lot of my coaching calls that way, I say, “Thanks for coming, you guys, I love you so much.” Can you love people you don’t know? Well, I think that you can actually.

It might not be the same kind of love that I can have for somebody that I know more intimately. But love is the topic I want to talk about today. And we’ll just start with this question. How can I love someone I don’t even know? So I want you to think of love as a feeling or emotion. There’s some debate about this. Some people are like, “Love is your action. Love is something that other people do for us. I want them to love me. So it’s something they’re doing to me or for me.” And I just think that those are kind of twisted ways of thinking about love. I can see some logic in it. So I’m not saying those things are totally not possible.

But by way of simplification I want to tell you how I think about love since becoming a coach 10 years ago. The difference is since I became a certified coach and started coaching thousands of people from before the way I used to think about love. And I’m just going to offer it to you. And if you don’t like it, feel free to reject it as always. So love, I like to simplify down to an emotion or feeling and we know that majority of the time our emotions and feelings are created by our thoughts and stories.

The reason I say majority of the time, I’ve started to caveat a little bit is because there can be hormonal things and biological things that can sometimes, I think, trigger emotions for us, but not really love. I don’t know, maybe love could be that way like when you’re falling in love, there might be some of that. But the kind of love I really want to focus on today is just feelings of affection and admiration and compassion and empathy and a concern or care for another individual. And that comes from what you think.

If you think I want them to be happy. I hope they are happy. I don’t want to see them suffer or I respect and admire that about them. I appreciate that about them. I love that about them. I think that they’re amazing. I think that they’re valuable. I think that they’re good or I see that they’re struggling. And it’s understandable, when we think thoughts like that, we feel love for another person. You can think that about a collection of people even.

Again, I don’t mean to say it’s the exact same way that I love all my clients in The Lab and all of you listening to this podcast is not the same as the love I feel for my children and my husband because I don’t know you as intimately. But I do picture you. I actually think about you all a lot, especially my clients, especially those of you that come on calls and get coached. I think about you after those calls so much. I think about what you told me. I have new questions that come up that think I wish I would have asked this and I wonder about that.

I think about what’s going on for you after the coaching session. What do they need from me? What else can I offer that will make their lives better, that will help them achieve more joy and help them navigate their lives? So when I think about you and think about how amazing you are and how deserving of compassion and empathy you are then I feel a feeling of love. You don’t feel that love because I’m thinking those thoughts. You feel something positive because of your thoughts.

The love that I feel doesn’t jump out of my body into anyone else’s body. They feel love because of their thoughts. Now, it just so happens that when I am thinking loving thoughts and feeling loving emotions, then I show up in a way that people tend to prefer. I show up in a way where I’m more attentive to you. I’m kinder to you or I maybe serve you in a way that you like or I’m patient with you. I’m kind to you. I notice you. These are things that we tend to like as human beings. And then we might say, “I feel so loved by that person.”

But I personally don’t like to word it that way because it makes me feel like me feeling that good feeling is dependent on them behaving in the way that they’re behaving. And that actually gets us into a lot of trouble, because even if people do sometimes, people won’t all the time. And sometimes the person that’s in our mind is supposed to be the most loving towards us, doesn’t do it right. I’m talking about your spouse. If I need you to behave a certain way so that I can feel loved, then we have a problem unless you also love showing up that way.

There will be some areas where we have matches in that regard, but there will probably be some, where I’m like, “I kind of prefer that you behave this way and if that’s not natural for you and you don’t want to behave that way and you’re just going to do it to try to please me. Now, we’re actually going to build disconnection and resentment instead of connection and love.” So instead of I feel loved I might say something like, “I really appreciate that person’s behavior.” It’s really cool when people pay attention to me and like me, but it’s always my thoughts about their behavior.

I am thinking that I must be a good person if this person is going to treat me this way. There must be something great about me. I must be doing a good job because somebody said something or behaved in such a way that I liked. The person’s behavior doesn’t mean I did a good job. It means they are thinking thoughts that make them feel love. Are you following me? I feel I’m a little all over the place here, but this is a really important concept.

So if that’s true, then love is something that we do for us. Now, again, other people like it as well but love is a feeling that we feel in our bodies and it feels really good. It not only feels really good, it magnifies your ability to be who you want to be. I think this is why when we talk about Christ, we talk about how good the Savior is at loving all of us and how He was love. And look at how He magnified his abilities on this Earth, beyond what any of us will be able to do but it’s because He was operating from so much love.

So the more we operate from love, the more we try to love like Jesus, like I said in the beginning, the more successful we will become at anything we try to do. This is just the reality of it. And we get the reward of feeling so good and expanded and complete in all the ways that we want to feel. It feels so good to feel the feeling of love. Other people are going to feel their emotions. Other people, think about this, somebody who, think back to when you were dating, some of you are still dating.

If somebody is interested in you and they’re paying attention to you and they’re asking you a bunch of questions and you are not interested in them, you don’t suddenly, you don’t feel that good feeling. You’re like, “Oh dear, I’m actually uncomfortable now because how am I going to get away from this person? How am I going to tell them I am not interested?” And yet they’re feeling some version of love, maybe we wouldn’t call it love. Maybe we would call it interest or a softer version of love. But they’re liking you and you’re not liking them.

Then you’re actually going to feel uncomfortable because their emotions, even their behaviors don’t create your feelings, you do with your thoughts and stories. That’s step one.

Now, let me tell you that when I went through coach training, one of the things that I was trained on, to be able to do, is to love everyone in the story. This is such a beautiful concept and I want to offer it to you because you don’t have to be a coach to benefit from this at all. This will change your life or it changed my life anyway. So as human beings, we like stories.

And if you’ve done any learning about good storytelling or you just pay attention in the world, then you know that good stories, according to all the experts, have heroes and they have villains and they have victims. And then they have some kind of a journey. And they have guides and maybe other side characters, but the hero goes through some kind of journey. This is Joseph Campbell, The Hero’s Journey type stuff. The hero needs to go through some kind of journey where he or she has to overcome something.

And there has to be some kind of resistance. There often is a guide helping them and there’s some kind of villain. The villain might be a person or the villain might be a natural disaster or an institution or some kind of resistance which is the villain. And what kind of transformation do they have in the process of overcoming that villain? And we love a story like that. There’s something emotional about it for us, probably because we see the possibility of our own transformation in it.

I was going to add one other thing. As I was preparing for this I was thinking about in the LDS Church we believe that in the premortal world there was what we call the war in heaven. And God had his plan that we would all go to Earth and Satan said, “Yeah, let’s all go down there and we’re all going to choose the right every time, and everyone’s going to glorify me and then we’ll come back.”

And then Christ said, “No, let’s all go down there and have agency and people can choose whether they’re going to do right or wrong, and sometimes they’re going to choose wrong. And so they’re going to need a savior and that will be me. I’ll sacrifice for everybody to compensate for the wrong choices so that everyone can still come back. But that way people can have the growth that’s necessary to become more like God and all the glory will go to God. I don’t want the glory. I’m going to do the work and make the sacrifice, but the glory will go to God.”

And so two-thirds of us chose to follow Christ’s plan. And a third chose to follow Satan’s plan. And the third that followed Satan didn’t get to come to Earth and get bodies, so all of us, congratulations. We all chose Christ’s plan because you’re here on Earth, you wouldn’t be here if you hadn’t. That’s what we believe in the LDS Church. That was a really not very good explanation of it, but I want to keep it brief.

My point is, even in this story, in the way that we believe, this part of our experience anyway began as a story where we had villains and heroes and good guys and bad guys. Fine and good except that now we use that part of us that loves the good guys and bad guys version to create problems in our relationships. So back to what I was saying before. In coach training, I was taught to love everyone in the story.

So here’s how it looks. Client gets on a call with me and starts telling me what they’re struggling with. Let’s say they have a mom that they’re not getting along with, and they’re like, “My mom.” I’m just making this up, but this is a version of a very common scenario.

“My mom, she’s just very critical and she’s very opinionated and she’s coming to visit my family and I next week and I know how it’s going to go. She’s going to criticize my parenting and the way I run my house. And I know that I’m an adult and I can do it how I want, but it just makes me feel really bad. And I have a hard time not getting snippy with her. And then I might say something and then she’s offended. And now I feel bad, and help me with this, Jody Moore.” This is common.

Okay, so immediately my client, by the way, before my client even comes on the call, I already love her because I get myself to a place of love. And then as soon as I see her face and her name and maybe it’s somebody I’ve coached before and I know them, maybe they’re brand new and I don’t. In my mind, I’m like this person is so lovable. I just love her. I literally say that to myself over and over again as I’m listening to their story. I love that she raised her hand. I love that she signed up to get coached. I love that she’s willing to share these things with me. I love how she wants to work on this.

I love how she’s doing her best to be vulnerable and she’s so nervous. A lot of times people are really nervous when they come on. I just love that she’s here anyway. So many reasons to love my client. Then as she starts talking about her mom, my next thoughts are, I love this girl’s mom, I do. I love how this mom has strong opinions. I love how she has ideas about how the world should be. I love how she cares enough to share her opinions. I love how confident she sounds.

She sounds like she also has some insecurity. I don’t want insecurity for her, but it’s just so lovable. Somebody who is struggling and insecure, we can relate to that. That’s so lovable. And it sounds like she gets her feelings hurt, and that’s totally understandable and lovable too, because it’s so human. I love this woman. So I had to train my brain to do that. And by the way, I do that when I’m coaching. I don’t normally do that in the rest of my life. I can do it, but it’s not natural for me.

But when I’m coaching, I turn on that part of my brain that’s like everyone in this story is lovable. And if there are other characters in the story, if they start telling me about a sibling who also got mad at her for offending mom or a brother who’s totally with her. And she calls the brother and they vent about how mom is so terrible and she knows that’s not good but that’s just what we do. Or maybe dad’s in the story and dad doesn’t help or whatever.

Anybody in the story, as soon as they tell me, I’m still listening to what they’re saying but in my mind is, I love this person. This person, they just told me about, there are so many reasons I can find to love people because I’ve trained my brain to do it. And this is necessary as a coach with the type of coaching I do because my job is to be neutral and to show my client their brain and help them see where they’re getting in their way and help them solve their own problem. But I can’t do that if I’m right there in the story with them, sounds like you’re the good guy and your mom’s the bad guy.

That’s what she’s telling me. That’s what her brain believes, which is fine. My brain believes that about my own personal stuff too. But if I step back and I go, “What if everybody in this story is completely lovable, how might that be true?” It’s not hard at all. Keep in mind, these are people they’re telling me about people, and maybe I know my client.

Oftentimes I don’t know the client very well. They just came on a call and now I’m coaching them. But even if I do know them, I don’t know the people in their lives usually. And I still, just on the little bit they tell me, can find so many reasons to love them. And what this does is it gives us clarity. It gives us the ability to decide if everybody’s lovable in the story and everybody’s doing their best even though our best is sometimes really bad then now what? What do I want to do? How do I want to feel? Who do I want to be in this situation?

And so we can refocus on my client and not try to control the world outside of us. Sometimes that means boundaries. Sometimes that means communication. Sometimes it just means letting go of some drama and things like that. But I’ll tell you, that skill has really impacted me. I will say it has made it easier in my personal life, although I don’t do it to that extreme in my personal life. And sometimes I have to stop and take a step back, but it’s something you can definitely try out.

Now, I’m using the word love and that’s what I called today’s episode. But I just want to kind of circle back and remind you that it doesn’t always have to be love. Love is not, to me, always the right word. I don’t think that you have to love everybody. I mean, if you want to, I’m trying to think if there would be a downside, you can. But I’m not saying you should love everybody. What I’m saying is, love is awesome, it feels good. When you can get to it I highly recommend it.

And when you’re in the thick of a struggle, ask yourself, what if everyone’s lovable what would love do? That’s the other question I forgot to give you, that I was trained in as coaching is, what would love do? Love includes love for yourself, by the way, love for your mom if this is the kind of situation I just described, love for everybody in the story. What would love do? That’s not an easy question to answer, because sometimes love would say no. Sometimes love would set a boundary and sometimes love would let it go. But what would love do if everyone’s lovable in the story, then what?

But there are different kinds of maybe more softer versions of love that are still going to feel a lot better than anger or hate or frustration or resentment. Because just like love rewards us and feels really good, and we get to feel it, and then we’re the main beneficiary of that. Hate, anger, resentment, frustration, judgment feels really bad. And those bad feelings don’t jump out of our bodies into other people’s bodies either. We have to feel them. We punish us with those emotions.

Now again, other people probably don’t prefer the way we show up from those emotions, but we’re the main one suffering when we think thoughts that generate those emotions. So what I want you to do, I don’t want you to love everyone or work on love more for their sake. I want you to work on it for your sake. But if you can’t get to love, try some of these. How about compassion? If it feels forced or faked to you to be like, “Well, I love her.” Then don’t try to do that. But can you just be like, “I have compassion for them, him or her?”

And this is especially useful when people are behaving ‘badly’ and I put badly in quotes because of course that’s subjective. But the only reason that people behave ‘badly’ is because they’re in fear and insecurity or scarcity, or triggered trauma or something like that. That’s why we behave badly. We don’t behave badly, we aren’t mean to people, we aren’t critical, we don’t lie, we don’t judge them and pick on them and be really violent and abusive even. We don’t do any of that when we’re feeling really confident and good about ourselves and we’re operating from a healthy place.

We do that when we’re feeling bad about ourselves and we’re in fear and we feel out of control and we’re operating from some kind of pain and trauma. So can you have compassion for the person? And again, you have to also be loving you and have compassion for you. I’m not talking about putting yourself in harm’s way. You’ve got to love you first. How about empathy? Empathy sometimes is easier to get to.

And then finally, this is if you’re just like, “I don’t know this person”, maybe it’s a famous person or somebody that you see in the public eye that you just can’t stand. One of the ones I get a lot when I teach love is, people are like, “What about Hitler, you want me to love Hitler?” I’m like, “No, you don’t have to but are you going to punish yourself because Hitler did terrible things? Because you hating Hitler is punishing you. Hitler, he’s dead. He’s not feeling your hate. It’s not punishing him or anyone like him.”

So I’m not saying that you would be like, “I want to love Hitler.” That kind of feels like a stretch. That might feel inappropriate. Can you at least just be fascinated and curious? And even if there is some disappointment there too. Dude, what makes somebody get to that point? My husband’s watching some kind of true crime drama type show about somebody who seems to have murdered several people. I don’t remember what it’s called, sorry.

It’s so fascinating to see this guy tell the stories he’s telling to see how he gets out of it, to see how he seems to rationalize and justify things and to hear what everybody else has to say. But why do we watch shows like that? Why are we so into true crime? Because we’re fascinated. We wouldn’t watch those if they made us really angry and bitter. We don’t like feeling that way. We’re able to not be angry and bitter because these are people who are not in our lives, it’s not impacting us.

So here’s the thing, even if you’ve got somebody behaving the way you don’t like, that is in your life, that is impacting you. If you can get to fascination or curiosity and then decide what to do from there, how to protect yourself, how to again, if necessary, put boundaries or whatever else needs to be done. You will be more effective at that. And you won’t be, most importantly, you won’t be sitting around waiting for them to change before you create what you want in your life.

And then some of these relationships it is necessary to end or to get away from. You don’t have to take that pain with you and keep punishing you on the other side of it. You can walk away with compassion, fascination, curiosity. So you’ve got to ask yourself, do I even want to love this person? I’ll tell you though, it’s not uncommon in, again, all my years of coaching, people don’t often bring me situations when they don’t want to love or at least be compassionate for the person. You guys don’t bring that to me.

You’re just like, “No, I’m done. I don’t want to think about them.” And you can write it off. The ones that come to me are things like my sister and I have just never gotten along. She’s really difficult. Maybe she’s up to no good. She’s stealing from people. She lies. She takes advantage of people, whatever. And they’re like, “I am trying to love her, but it’s just so hard.” And I’ll often ask them first, “Do you want to love her?” And they’ll kind of go, “I mean she’s my sister, so I should, right?” I’m like, “Not necessarily, but do you want to?”

And maybe the answer is, yes, I want to, and maybe the answer is, I just think I should. What I try to do is tell them “There’s no way that you should feel, but do you want to at least have compassion for her? Do you want to at least stop punishing yourself?” So that’s the case in most of the situations that I’ve coached on.

I can’t think of very many times when somebody was like, “This is going on in my life and I don’t want to love them at all.” Because then I’m like, “Well, then, why are we talking about it? Just don’t then, just be angry, just hate them. Just keep resenting them. What do you want me to tell you? Just process the emotion, I guess, take a deep breath. It’s okay, don’t beat yourself up.” That really might be the answer at times. People don’t usually bring me those.

Two more things I want to say. One is that loving people is not the same as people pleasing. I want to be very clear about this. Loving other people is not the same as people pleasing. People pleasing is when we are doing things because we are trying to manipulate how they feel. We’re trying to control how they feel. We’re trying to get them to feel a certain way. Loving people is doing things because of how we feel, doing nice things because of how we feel. Do you see what I’m saying?

Sometimes loving people looks like saying no. I mentioned this already, but it’s easier to think about when you think about if you’re a parent and you think about your younger kids. Loving my kids doesn’t always mean doing the thing that makes them happy or letting them do the thing that’s going to make them happy. Sometimes loving them means, no, I’m sorry, you’re not going to eat that until you eat something good for you or we’ve got to go to bed or you need to take a shower or you’ve got to do your homework.

That’s the best way I can love them sometimes, and it doesn’t always make them happy to hear those things but I do those things because I love them. So now if you have other people in your life that you think maybe you’re people pleasing with, ask yourself, am I doing this because I love them or I care about them or I’m concerned or I have compassion? Or am I doing it because I’m trying to control what they’re thinking? And just check yourself if so. So loving is not the same as people pleasing.

Some people won’t like the way you choose to love, which leads me to the last thing. I’ve said this before, but I have to emphasize it. Love is not just something that you can feel about other people, you can and I want you to work on feeling it about yourself. In the 10 years that I’ve coached so many different people on so many different things. We cannot love people or the world in general more than we love ourselves. I just don’t think it’s possible. I have not seen someone be able to love others beyond their capacity to love themselves.

People who are very confident, who genuinely are able to love themselves, this doesn’t mean you have to like everything about you. This doesn’t mean you’re always walking around feeling love for yourself. But overall, some of you again have this situation maybe in your marriage or something where you’re like, “Sometimes they really get on my nerves but overall I love them.” Or maybe it’s with your kids, “I love them. Sometimes they drive me crazy, but I love them.” Think about that kind of relationship. That’s what you want to have with yourself.

Sometimes I really wonder about you self, whatever your name is, fill in your name. I talk to myself in third person a lot. Sometimes I really wonder about you, Jody. Sometimes you disappoint me. Sometimes you let me down. But you know what? I love you, overall I love you. So you’ve got to work on that, my friend, because you won’t be able to love other people beyond your ability to love yourself. And the more confident you become the easier it is to love everyone else around you.

Alright, so love, a really interesting emotion and I don’t know, I just find it so fascinating and it’s such a valuable thing to work on because it will change every area of your life. It will affect the way you interact with anyone, whether it be in a business setting, a church setting, or your personal relationships if you work on fostering love and all of that happens up in your beautiful mind.

Alright, thanks for joining me today everyone. We’ll be back next week for part three of the lessons I’ve learned in 10 years of coaching. I’ll see you then. Take care.

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The post 460. 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned Part 2: Love appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We’re celebrating Jody Moore Coaching’s 10th birthday this May! All month long, you’ll hear my journey of finding coaching, becoming a coach, how I grew my team and company, and most importantly, what I’ve learned after helping millions of people create a life that’s better than happy.

In May of 2014, my life took a drastic turn. After being let go from my corporate job and finding coaching, I decided to pivot and it’s one of the decisions I’m most grateful for. So this May, I’ll be spending the whole month reflecting on my experience as a coach and highlighting the lessons that I think will be most useful to you.

Join me for part one of this series today as I share my biggest business lessons learned. You’ll learn everything from why I believe starting a business is a noble endeavor if it’s something you desire to my favorite thought to offer entrepreneurs and everything in between.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: Why, if you want to, you can and should pursue your goals. * How entrepreneurship is one of the ways we can replenish the earth. * The importance of knowing how to want. * Some signs you may need a project or goal to work on. * Why what you accomplish is not* who you are. * The gifts of your limitations. * How your business will take care of you if you take care of it.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!
Kris Plachy
Brooke Castillo
Myron Golden
Dan Sullivan
1. Decision Energy

Welcome to episode 459, 10 Years Coaching – Lessons Learned Part 1: Business. May is Jody Moore’s Coaching’s 10 year birthday. And we’re celebrating by recognizing the lessons learned. All month long you’ll hear about my journey of finding coaching, then becoming a coach, how we grew to where we are today with a team, and most importantly, what we’ve learned after helping literally millions of people create a life that’s better than happy. Starting today with part one, business, if you are an entrepreneur like myself, especially if you’re a coach you’re going to love this one.

Oh, my goodness, 10 years. So in, I guess, it was October or November or so of 2013, I was let go from my corporate job, which I had been at for over 15 years. And the company was going through massive changes and massive layoffs, so it wasn’t a complete shock. I knew it was probably coming. But still, it was a massive shift in just my day-to-day routine. Since having children at all I had always worked, even before I was married, I had worked at the same company and it had been great for the most part.

I had learned a lot and grown a lot and met a lot of amazing people and had a lot of great experiences there. And so it felt sort of a part of my identity that I was losing. And ultimately towards the end of my career there I met who is my good friend to this day Kris Plachy, who introduced me to coaching and the model and Brooke Castillo and her work and it literally transformed my life in so many ways. And then I signed up for coach training right after. I actually was introduced to Brooke a couple of years before that, Brooke’s work, I should say. I didn’t know Brooke, but her work and her tools.

So I had been studying this for a couple of years, and actually even using it in my corporate job when I was let go. And I thought, I’m going to go through this coach training program that The Life Coach School offers, although I had no intention of actually starting a coaching business, I really didn’t. I mean I guess probably in the back of my mind was maybe that’s a possibility, but it was a really, really out there possibility. I really didn’t think I was going to do that. I’d never viewed myself as an entrepreneur.

Well, May of 2014 was when I went through my certification, my coach training, I should say, which was a week long, six days actually, in person, full day experience of learning from Brooke in a small class of about 20 ish of us. And then I went home and had work I had to do afterwards to learn how to use the tools and to pass certification. But it was May 2014 when my life took the most drastic improvement of anything I can point to in my life, the biggest pivot, the biggest change that I am so grateful for.

And here we are, May 2024. That feels like yesterday but it was 10 years ago. So I wanted to spend the month of May reflecting back on my experience, only if I think it would be interesting and relevant to you. I don’t want to talk a lot about myself and my journey, but I think there are parts of it that some of you are really interested in that might be useful for you to hear. And for the most part, share with you some of the things that I’ve learned as I’ve been so honored and privileged to get to coach and work with so many of you.

We have had tens of thousands of people go through our coaching programs and our events and the courses and the things that we’ve offered here over the last 10 years. And there are millions of you who have benefited from listening to this podcast, many of whom I am fortunate enough to get to hear back from. So that’s what we’re going to do in the month of May.

Now, I also want to mention that as part of our 10 year anniversary celebration, we have just launched a new tier in my coaching program, The Lab. I’ve always had lots of other coaches come along who have wanted to learn from me. It’s been really common that someone comes along, benefits from coaching and then loves it so much that they want to become a coach and then go help other people. So I’ve got a lot of you who are in that situation and whether you learned it from me or another coach.

And then others who are just different types of coaches, maybe have a different type of training or a different kind of specialty with your coaching who have wanted to learn either what we do as coaches. But even more so, how we make our business succeed and how we find clients and how we get the message out there and succeed in business.

And if you’ve been around a while, you’ve noticed that I’ve had programs kind of come and go because I’ve always struggled with, I love helping people who are coaches to build their businesses and improve their coaching. But at the same time, it’s kind of a pretty big pivot from serving my clients on all of their just life challenges and any other types of goals. And so I’ve struggled to know how to combine the two. And I’m really excited about how we’re doing it now.

So we have our program, The Lab, where I’m still going to help everybody with anything going on, all of their relationship problems, money problems, time problems, confidence problems, parenting stuff and not just problems, but goals. How to achieve your health goals. How to achieve your money goals. How to accomplish whatever you want to in your life. And that is not going away. That is only going to continue to get better. That is The Lab.

But we have added another level of access in The Lab that I’m calling Coach Access. And in this version of The Lab, you will still get all the other things that everyone else gets, which you can apply to your own life and you can use to continue to learn if you’re a coach. But we’re also going to do some additional things in the name of me helping you with your business and me showing you behind the scenes of my business. And me continuing to teach you about all things marketing, sales, content creation, ads, even customer support, managing the business and some coaching stuff too.

How to improve your skills as a coach but anyway, I don’t want to spend a long time talking about that. I just want to tell you that if you’re going to join us in Coach Access, make sure you do it during the month of May, because that will be a program that will cost $225 a month to participate in. But if you join during the month of May, you get it for $125 a month for as long as you stay in the program. There’s also an annual option that you can look at that will save even more money.

But you can go to jodymoore.com/coachaccess to check that out, but make sure you get in before the end of May if you want to lock in the lower rate. We’re offering it as a celebration of our 10 year birthday here at Jody Moore Coaching.

Okay, so today’s lessons that I’m going to focus on come from really, or I should say, apply largely to anybody who’s trying to build a business as an entrepreneur. Now, they can of course be applied in a lot of areas of your life as well. So it will not be a stretch at all for you to be able to take what I’m giving you and apply it to other goals that you have. But I’m going to talk about it and frame it around the context of building a coaching business, because that is where a lot of these lessons landed for me and for the clients that I have coached.

And I just kind of brainstormed a list of the big major takeaways and I’m going to go through them in no particular order. So I apologize, I thought about, do I try to put these in some sort of an order, but I just, I couldn’t do it. So here we go. This is just kind of what’s going on in my brain.

So first of all, if you are trying to build a business, I want you to know that I believe it is a noble endeavor, if you want to. If you don’t want to, I don’t think that you have to. I don’t think that it makes you a better person, a more valuable person. I don’t think you need to prove anything to anyone. There’s no part of me that thinks that anyone should build a business, but if you want to, then I think it’s worth going for. So what I see is people get these two things confused.

They think that they should for some reason, maybe it’s because they put money into something and they’re struggling with the sunk cost of thinking, if I paid for this thing or I’ve invested time or money into it and then I don’t pursue it, that was a waste. I don’t believe that’s true at all. I think that if you put money into learning something and you met some people and you figure some stuff out along the way, that is never a waste, even if you don’t go do anything with it.

But I also see people who want to, especially coaches, this is so common with coaches, especially the ones in my world, because a lot of them are women who are in the thick of raising kids and things. And they get excited and they go through coach training and then they think, well, I shouldn’t be focused on growing that business I want to build. That’s selfish. It’s not the right season. My kids might suffer. I can’t be a good mom and a good entrepreneur at the same time. It’s too hard. There’s no way to do it all. You have to make choices. Thoughts like this.

I just think that if you want to, then you can and should pursue your goals. In fact, I’ve been listening to a lot of Myron Golden lately, and I’ve probably talked about him on the podcast, I know I’ve talked about him in The Lab. But I love the way he talks about the concept of multiply and replenish the Earth. The Bible says we’re to multiply and replenish the Earth. Well, I don’t know about you, but growing up in a conservative Christian religion, I was taught that that scripture means I should have babies. And maybe it does mean that. I think that’s probably a part of it.

But I think there’s a lot more on the Earth that could be multiplied and replenished. And I think that everything that God has created goes through seasons and therefore requires replenishing. And everything that God’s created or that man has created that’s good, is capable of being multiplied, not just addition, multiplication. Our world, our lives, ourselves, our relationships, all of it can become exponentially better. And entrepreneurship is one way that we contribute to the multiplication and replenishment of the Earth.

And if you’re a coach like me, then the best way you can do that is through coaching. That is an amazing way to multiply and replenish the Earth, it has been for me anyway. Wanting is an important skill. Let yourself want. So many people are not very good at wanting, they only know how to need. They’re really good at needing, but they’re not very good at wanting. Here’s what I mean. Something that you need is something that you have to justify.

If I go to Target and I see a cute lamp let’s say, and I tell myself I need that lamp. It means there’s a justification behind it. It’s, I have a spot in the corner of this room that is dark and I have been meaning to get something to put there to brighten it up. I need that lamp. Now, the truth is, most of us have very few needs. We justify it, but the truth is we actually don’t need very much at all but we want things. I want that lamp. A want is something that you don’t have to justify at all. You just want it because you want it and you don’t have to give an explanation and you don’t have to give a reason.

And you don’t have to make anybody else feel satisfied that it’s okay for you to want that. Are you good at doing that? Are you able to say, “I want to build a business that helps people?” I want to be a coach and help change people’s lives in this way. And when somebody says, “Why do you want to do that?” You say, “Because I want it.” This is what Dan Sullivan teaches. When you want something it’s just because you want it, that’s it.

And as soon as you have to justify it, as soon as you feel like you need to give this other person an answer or you need to justify it to yourself or anyone else. Now you’re trying to turn it into a need, which means you’re not getting better at wanting, you’re getting better at needing. I want you to get better at wanting, do you know why? People who want, do a lot more good than people who need because wanting comes from abundance and needing comes from scarcity. Wanting is very generous. Needing is more about, I’m going to take this thing that’s going to negatively impact someone else.

Okay, so for my fellow coaches and entrepreneurs who say, this is where I used to be, by the way, because I always loved working, but I started having kids and I thought maybe I’m not supposed to work. Maybe I’m supposed to be at home with my kids. But what I told myself was I need to work because I need to help contribute to the finances between what my husband’s making and what I make, then we can support our family. But if I’m not working, we’re not going to be able to support our family on that much. Is that true? I don’t know.

I certainly could make a case for it. But is it really true or could we have moved to a less expensive area? Could we have cut back on some of the luxuries that we were paying for? Could we have, I don’t know, I told myself, it was a need so that I could justify working because a part of me thought maybe I’m not supposed to work, when in reality I wanted to work. I wanted to work. And if I would have just owned, I want to work. I wonder what would have changed.

I wonder if I could have been more effective at both working and being available for my children in the way that I want to and being available to connect with my spouse in the way that I want to. Needing comes from scarcity, there’s some sort of guilt or shame or scarcity behind it. Wanting comes from abundance. I just want to because God created me and I’m here on Earth and I have a body and I’m alive and I have some experience and some knowledge and an opportunity and I want to see what I could do with it. That’s a beautiful thing.

So if you want to build a business, let’s go, my friend. Let’s go. I want to help you. I want you to help more people, and I want you to pursue what you want.

Okay, next thing I want to say is that your brain needs a problem to solve. Your brain wants a problem to solve, I should say, and so does mine. And if you don’t give it a useful problem to solve, a fun problem to solve, a problem that you want to solve that is yours to own and solve, by the way, then it will just look around you and find something else and turn it into a problem even if it’s not one. Again, 10 years I have been coaching all kinds of people but in the beginning of my time as a coach, I did private coaching. I did one-on-one.

My original program was six sessions long and I created it for the woman who was a stay at home mom, a member of some kind of conservative Christian church like the LDS church like myself. And wants to take care of her kids and loves her kids but is frustrated and overwhelmed. It helped regulate your emotions and be happier overall, it helped build confidence and it helped you become more excited about your future. Those were the three things that I promised and delivered to my individual one-on-one clients.

Here’s what I discovered over and over again. These women told themselves that they didn’t have time for their own interests. And not all of them want to be entrepreneurs, don’t get me wrong, or work or have traditional jobs like that. But everybody has interests. So whether it be a hobby, a project, a class, whatever it is, we all have interests outside of raising our families. And at the same time, we want to raise our kids and be good moms, good to our families.

But these women who didn’t have something else to focus on, had so much more drama around all the little challenges that come with being a mom and raising a family. So for example, I remember this one woman I was coaching her and she was so frustrated that she couldn’t keep the house clean. And she would try to get the kids to do chores. And we all know that’s a challenge and she would try to just keep up on it herself. And we all know that’s a challenge. And it was just this ongoing challenge and I was constantly trying to help her.

I tried all different angles as we do as coaches. First I tried to help her make peace with the house being not super clean because in the end she understands it doesn’t really matter. It’s not that big of a deal. She wasn’t living in something that was unsanitary, it just bothered her that things weren’t put away and she couldn’t keep it organized. So we tried that angle. That didn’t work. So then we tried another angle. Let’s get people to help. Let’s get a different system. Let’s get a different routine. Let’s get chores to be easier. Let’s get this house cleaned up.

And we tried that and in all of these areas, we had some success. Then I don’t even know how this happened because I didn’t encourage this, but for some reason she started selling this lipstick. What is it called? I want to say it was LipSense or something. Is that still a thing? Remember the lipstick that was the long wear and it came in all the different colors and it was a direct sales or multi-level marketing company. And she started selling it because she loved it and she found that she was really good at selling it.

And before you know it, she was building a team under her of other people selling it. And she was having a lot of fun figuring out how to be more successful selling this lipstick and how to help the other people working with her, find success as well. And suddenly, that’s what she wanted coaching on. Every time she came to the program was like, “Can we talk about what’s going on in my LipSense business?” I was like, “Sure.” So now I’m coaching her on that.

And I remember one day saying to her, “Wait a second. Whatever happened with the house because we talked about that a lot in how you couldn’t keep it clean and everything?” And she said, “Oh, yeah, that’s still true. I just don’t even care anymore.” I was like, “Amazing.” Because her brain needed and wanted something to strategize around, something to grow with, something to push back against, something to figure out, some kind of a challenge or problem.

And when she put that brain to work on something that was much more fun, which was building her business, she stopped making the messy house be such a big deal. So listen, our brains need problems to solve. If you notice, if you know logically that your brain is making drama and problems out of things that really in the end don’t matter, you might need to give yourself some kind of a project or a goal, or let’s build your business if you’re a coach and you want to build a business. That will help a lot.

Next, what you do and accomplish is not who you are, it’s just not. And this is true for all the areas of your life. You might have a bunch of kids, and maybe you’re in the thick of raising children right now and you spend all your time and effort and energy and brain power raising those kids. Bless your heart if that’s you. You are not a mom, I mean you are a mom, but you’re not a mom and that is not your whole identity.

The people in your life, your relationships, your family is not your identity. The things that you accomplish as a coach in your business or whatever else it is that you do, your church calling, your job, if you go work for someone else and you have a job. Those things are not your identity. This is very important for you to know if you’re going to be an entrepreneur building a coaching practice or any other kind of business. Because if it’s your identity, it becomes very heavy and dramatic.

And if it doesn’t work, then I’m a loser and a failure. And if it does work, then look at me, I’m so amazing. Except that’s a very fragile place to live from because at some point something’s not going to work. So what you do or accomplish is not who you are, it’s just not. It’s just what you’ve done and what you’ve accomplished or what you haven’t done and what you haven’t accomplished. You are you, period. You don’t have to do anything to become you or to prove who you are. You just already are you without doing a thing.

Now, to kind of add onto that, I want to say that your limitations are gifts. I know none of us want to hear this. We don’t want to hear when we’re going through something challenging. This is all for your own good. Just think how much you’re growing, but it’s true, our limitations are gifts because if everything was easy, we really definitely wouldn’t evolve and grow and it’s the evolution and growth that makes all of this worthwhile. That’s the reason we want to do it in the first place is so that we can evolve and grow.

That’s actually the whole reason we’re here on Earth is to become more like God. How are we going to become more like God? Through struggle, through overcoming struggle, through gaining skills or overcoming challenges. That is the idea. So your limitations are just gifts, that’s all they are. Here’s a gift for you. Here’s a limitation. Let’s see what you could do with that. I get it, in the thick of it, it doesn’t feel like a gift, and that’s okay. Everything that we bump up against is an opportunity to understand our worth and then decide what we’re going to do next.

It’s really easy to understand your worth when you’re winning, when you do something that you’re already good at and everybody claps for you and tells you what a great job you did and the results that you get are exactly what you wanted. Then it’s really easy to be like, “I’m okay, I guess I’m pretty good. I guess I’m doing alright.” But how about when it fails, how about when it doesn’t work?

Here’s another Myron Golden saying for you, he says, “It’s always working.” And he talks to entrepreneurs too. He’s like, “It’s always working. It’s either working for you or it’s working on you.” That’s a mic drop moment. ”It’s always working. It’s either working for you or it’s working on you.” That’s what happens when you try to build a business. You’re going to have some stuff that works for you and that will be fine, and you’re going to have other stuff that works on you. What are you going to do then? Keep going.

Okay, the next thing I want to say, and this is going to come up in some of the other episodes from this series because it’s such an important point, but shame is like tar slowing you down. This is true in every area of life. But listen up, my entrepreneur friends, if you don’t do the work I just talked about of, understanding your value and worth and understanding that what you accomplish is not who you are and your limitations are not who you are. Then this shame, this what’s the matter with me, who do I think I am, some people call it imposter syndrome, sometimes we call it fear.

You have to do the work every day. It’s like brushing your teeth. Every night I brush my teeth and my breath smells better. And then I wake up the next morning with bad breath again. You know what I have to do? Brush my teeth again, because I’m a human being. I will continue to wake up with bad breath every morning and that’s just the way of it.

And you will have to continue to do the work to understand that you’re a valuable, good, amazing person, not any better than anyone else, but not any worse either. And just as deserving of happiness and success as everybody else on planet Earth and just as capable of anything that you desire. Not capable of anything, capable of anything that you desire, anything you want. If you want it and you just want it and you don’t have a reason, then you’re capable of it. That’s my personal opinion. So we’ve got to work on the shame.

Wrong decisions are better than indecision. This is so true. Coaches, entrepreneurs, listen up, I can’t say this enough times. I have to tell it to myself over and over again too by the way. Wrong decisions are better than indecision or no decision. I did a podcast episode on this recently about the power that comes when we make decisions. But this is not more true anywhere than in my business. And it’s part of the reason I think I have achieved some of the success I have over the 10 years is because I make decisions.

I make decisions quickly. I don’t spend a lot of time in indecision and then I make the decision right as much of the time as I can. And if I can’t, then I make a different decision and I thank myself for taking a guess and we move on because all decisions are just guesses. Did you know this? They’re always guesses. None of us know the right decision from before the decision has been executed, we don’t know. We take a guess. Sometimes our guesses are right and we go, “That was good. That was the right decision, that led me to where I want to go. That worked out how I wanted.”

Sometimes we make what we call a wrong decision and we go, “Oh, wait a second, I thought this was going to take me down a different path. I don’t really like the path I’m on right now.” And then you can beat yourself up and feel terrible or you can just make a different decision and go a different way. It’s always better to make a wrong decision than to make no decision at all, especially if you’re trying to build a business. You will succeed at the speed of your decision making.

I have coached thousands of other coaches and I’m in all kinds of business communities and masterminds and I go to big events. I’ve heard the biggest speakers you can imagine and I’ve learned from some great, amazing, successful people. And everyone will agree with me that making decisions, even if they’re ‘wrong’ will get you to success faster than sitting back, waiting to figure out what is the right decision, because that’s just not a real thing.

Your willingness to suck at things is a superpower. Your willingness to be terrible at things is a superpower. Your willingness to make a fool of yourself if necessary is a superpower. Your willingness to have other people go, “I’m kind of offended by the way you said that and I think that was wrong and let me send you the correct information.” Are you willing to do all of that stuff? I’m not saying you do it on purpose. I’m not saying you try to offend people or you try to get it wrong or that you don’t put in some good faith, effort to do a good job.

But you could put in all of your best effort non-stop and you’re still going to make mistakes. And you’re still going to have somebody that just doesn’t like what you have to say, or the look of you or whatever else it is about you that they don’t like, there’s no avoiding that. Are you going to let that prevent you from helping people? Or are you going to decide you’re not for everyone and it’s okay and it’s okay that you’re not good at it all right away? Nobody’s good at it right away.

Ten years ago, after I went through that six day intensive coach training at The Life Coach School. Then my assignment was to go home and find, I don’t remember how many people, but a bunch of people that would let me coach them so I could record it and send it in. And I could get feedback about how to actually do this, what is much more complicated than it looks thing called coaching. And so I reached out to my pretty much family and close friends, which is common and I said, “Will you let me coach you?” And they were nice enough to allow me to coach them and record it.

And you know what? I wasn’t good at it, I wasn’t. I can tell you for sure, those coaching calls were terrible. Not only those but the first two years of coaching, I didn’t know how to listen very well. I knew how to kind of listen and start thinking about what have I heard Brooke Castillo or some other coach say in this situation that I might be able to pull from, what’s the right answer. And also I hope they don’t think that I look or sound stupid today. That’s mostly what was going on in my head.

It’s really hard to actually listen in a deep way like I can now as a coach when you have all that stuff going on in your head but you know what? I had to be willing to suck at it before I could get good at it. I’m still trying to get good at a lot of things. I’ve gotten really good at coaching, but there are other things I still suck at 10 years later, but you know what? I’m willing to. I’m willing to, every time technology changes, every time the way people like to consume content changes, I’m willing to be bad at it.

I’m good at podcasting now, but you know what? I want to do a YouTube channel now. I actually have tried a YouTube channel a couple of times and you know what I found? I suck at it. I’m not good at it. I’m not good at it for all kinds of reasons. And I’m just going to keep going and I’m going to be willing to be not good at it because that’s the only way to get good at it. And more importantly, I can be not good at it and still do so much good.

I have a sister, Lindsay. I have two sisters who both work in my business a little bit, but Lindsay helps me on the backend a lot. She also is a coach and does amazing coaching, but she’ll help me on the backend. She’s kind of my marketing support person. And so she was, the other day she’s like, “We need to go through all your funnels that you’re running right now and just kind of see what leads where. And is there anything we need to update and clean up?” I was like, “Definitely do that because I guarantee there’s a lot that needs cleaning up.”

So she started combing through things. What ads are we running? What opt-ins do we give? Where do we send people? What pages are they going to? What emails are they getting? And she came back to me after combing through everything and she’s like, “You know what I discovered? That you can do not very good work and still be really successful.”

She’s like, “Because a lot of your stuff is really a mess. It goes to pages that don’t exist and there’s so much we need to clean up and you’re still doing so well. You’re making such a big impact in people’s lives and you’re helping so many people. And you’re achieving so many of your business goals. This is the best news I have for you. You don’t even have to be good at it to succeed but be willing to be bad at it, especially in front of other people.”

What’s the next one? Consistent small steps beat out inconsistent big moves in the end. I’m going to say it a different way. Consistently doing boring things is more effective than occasionally doing exciting things. Doing small, boring little things that feel like they won’t matter over and over and over again is the way that you achieve success in any area of your life. We all know this.

This is true with your health goals. You have to do little boring things like drink water, it doesn’t feel like drinking water makes that big of a difference because I drank all my water today and I woke up the next day and I still don’t like the way my body looks in the mirror. But if you drink a lot of water every day for five years, you’re going to feel very different and it’s going to lead to a lot of other really different results. Consistent small steps beat out inconsistent, big, exciting, even perfect, moves.

Consistently doing things not very well is the way I achieved success. I didn’t inconsistently do things perfect. I consistently did things not very well. Are you in? Do you want to go on this journey with me? Let’s go.

Next one. If you’re not having fun on the way to where you’re going, you won’t have fun when you get there. This is so true. Now, I have been fortunate enough that I love what I do so much. I love coaching. I love talking about all the tools of life coaching. But I also have loved learning about entrepreneurship and marketing and online business and all of that. And so it’s been relatively easy for me to have fun along the way, not always. Sometimes I’ve had to check myself, do a little coaching or get coached.

But because I’ve had so much fun along the way, I’m having fun now. But I have coached hundreds of other people who are not having fun on the way and they still can achieve success sometimes, but it is not any more fun once they get there, it’s just not. The horizon always moves. They get there and they’re beating themselves up because it took too long or they’re beating themselves up because they should be further. And now they’re looking at the next milestone. You have to have fun along the way.

This has for me been my journey with food and nutrition and health. I tried for so long to struggle my way there and it just wasn’t any fun. Even though I could get there, I ended up always going back to old habits and old ways. So if you’re not having fun on the way, you won’t have fun when you get there, you just won’t. And if you want help having fun, I’ll help you have fun. We just have to reframe your focus and reframe your reasoning and reframe your routines and we just have to do some reframing.

Next one, you cannot grow or scale or develop your business without growing and scaling and developing yourself. We know this is true. This is just the reality. Your business will only grow and scale to the level that you have grown and scaled yourself. And this is not just reality for any of you, this is reality for me as well. My business is where it is because I am where I am.

And until I change the way I’m thinking, I learn more, I increase my skill sets, I change my perception of myself, I change my ideas around what’s possible, until I change that my business will stay the same. If I stay the same, my business will stay the same. That’s it. And that’s okay. We don’t have to be in a rush. I’m not saying growth and scaling and developing should always be the goal. I think sometimes there is a lot of peace that comes from coasting and remaining, although you will have to maintain. Nothing actually stays the same, it’s either growing or dying.

But I’m not saying you have to constantly be in growth and scaling mode. I’m just saying that wherever you are, if you do have the desire to either improve your processes or work fewer hours or help more people or make more money, you’re going to have to develop yourself in order to achieve those things. That’s just the way of it, I wish I could tell you otherwise.

Here’s the next thing I want to tell you. If you take care of your business in the beginning, when you’re just getting up and running, it will take care of you one day. I think about this the same way I think about my kids. So think about when you have babies and they’re just so little and fragile and they can’t even hold their heads up without your help.

And when you start your business, if you’re new or maybe you have been doing this for years, but you haven’t gotten a lot of traction or success yet. Then your business maybe is a baby and it needs so much from you. It might need money from you. It might need all of your time. It might need all of your creativity. It might need so much from you and it’s not giving you much back, meaning you’re not getting a lot of clients yet. You’re not getting a lot of traction. You’re not getting a lot of feedback. You’re not able to make much of an impact yet.

Yeah, that doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong. That doesn’t mean you’re not to be successful. That means you’re right on track. That means you just gave birth to a baby business. But my kids over the years have grown up and they still need stuff from me. I’ve got kids between the ages of eight and 17, and they still need things from me, some more than others. But you know what? They actually provide so much for me, too.

In fact, right now, as we’re speaking, my son went and picked up the two little ones from school because my husband was going to pick them up but he had another errand he needed to run, and I wanted to get this podcast done before they get home. Thank goodness, I put so much into teaching that kid how to drive and taking care of him, and now he’s helping me out. And it still goes both ways, but I’ve got kids who provide so much just in the way of help and daily routine, but also they bring so much entertainment, so much joy, so much expansion into my life.

And that’s something they’re not challenging at times. Sometimes they are and sometimes my business is too. But you know what? I look at this business now that we’ve created over the last 10 years and I’m just so grateful that we have this asset. We have this ability to add value in the world. We have this tool, this instrument, this vehicle by which we can make people’s lives better. And when you’re able to add value in the world and make people’s lives better, people will pay you for that.

You will get emotional compensation because there’s nothing more rewarding than seeing somebody get help and telling you that you had something to do with that. Sorry, I’ve got dogs barking out there at probably a person walking by, just ignore that.

Just a couple more things I want to say. A percentage of running a business is just doing things even though you don’t feel like doing it. That’s the stark reality. I don’t mean to paint this rosy picture like I love what I do and I always enjoy it and then it works and then isn’t this amazing. Yeah, that is true. That is how I think about it overall. But the reality is that there’s a whole bunch of things, like I said, the little boring daily things that I do consistently that I don’t really want to do.

Things like writing emails, things like, I don’t know, anything admin on my computer, I don’t really feel like doing but I do it. In fact, I was just thinking about this today because I’d got to do two calls back-to-back. I taught a class in The Lab called the instant one formula that everybody gets brand new when they come in, taught live by me. And I’ve been really excited about this class, so I put lots of preparation and time and everything into it. and it was so much fun to teach and I still get to teach five more parts because it’s a five part class. So that was awesome.

And then right after that, I did the elite coaching call. So anybody that’s been in The Lab for a year or longer they get an extra call with me every month where they can come and get help and coaching. And so those people have been here long enough that we can get a little bit deeper, a little bit more advanced. And so I did that for an hour. And it was so awesome. Days like that when I just get to show up and coach people, fill me up.

Now, that wasn’t my whole day, that was the bulk of my morning. And then I took my dog and went for a walk. And I came back. I’m doing a little admin and now I’m recording this podcast. But I was just thinking, thank you, Jody Moore for doing all the little things you’ve got to do in between the coaching calls so that we can show up and coach like that. I hear from so many of you coaches who tell me you want to work for me and that’s awesome and I don’t know, maybe one day I’ll have a need for coaches.

But the truth is the coaching is the fun part for me and for you, that’s why we all want to work for someone. But I’m so grateful to myself for building this opportunity to coach. I can coach as much as I want to because of all of the work that I’m willing, that I put in, in the past, first of all, and I’m still willing to put in. So a percentage of this is just doing things even though they’re not your favorite things to do. Welcome to life. But that’s also what makes it so rewarding is I can thank myself for the opportunity.

Okay, the last thing I want to tell you, the last kind of, I’m calling it a business lesson that I’ve learned over 10 years of running this business, being a coach and an entrepreneur. And this is my favorite thought. I offer it to people all the time. It’s not about you. And I’m talking to you about your business. So if it’s me in my business, the thought is, it’s not about me. It’s not about me. Now, people get confused about this.

The business is called Jody Moore Coaching and everybody on my team has an email address that has some version of their name and then @jodymoorecoaching. And my face is all over the website and the podcast cover. And it’s my voice you’re listening to right now and I’m on videos on my Instagram and Facebook pages and my name is at the bottom of every email. You’d think that this was about me. It’s not, it’s not about me, and that is the best news.

I tell myself that, not to humble myself because, well, maybe, maybe sometimes some humbling is required. But mostly when I need to hear that message is when I’m filled with insecurity and fear and doubt because if it’s about me then that’s really scary to put myself out there. When other people come along and judge me and criticize, if they don’t like what I’m saying, or if I try something and it fails and I make it about me, that’s going to feel terrible. But I remember, it’s not about me, it’s really not.

Even when people come along and they tell me how much I’ve helped them and they’re so grateful and so generous and telling me, people cry on my shoulder, you guys, at live events. I love all of you who come up to me, by the way, don’t avoid me. I was just on one of the coaching calls, a woman said, “I almost came up and introduced myself to you at a conference, but I was too shy.” I was like, “What? Don’t do that. Now you owe me a hug. I want you to come and hug me and cry on my shoulder and whatever you want to say, I want to meet you.”

But at any rate, when people come and they tell me how much I help them, that is not about me, it’s not about me. That’s about you. That’s about the person who took what I told them and ran with it. I had very little to do with it, if you’ve received help. Even when I coached people one-on-one and I would talk to them every week for six weeks, eventually that became nine weeks, sometimes even longer, that wasn’t about me. I got to spend an hour on the phone with them once a week. All the rest is them and God. That’s it, that’s what it’s about.

So listen, it’s not about you, even though you might choose personal branding as your business model like I’ve done, because it’s a really useful way to help people find what you do and to hear your message. We tend to hear it better when we connect it with a person. We like people better than we like textbooks. So that’s just a way to help get the message out there, my face and my name and all that nonsense. But none of this is about me. Isn’t that the best news, your business is not about you?

When I go to speak to audiences, and sometimes I get nervous ahead of time and I think what if I forget what I was going to say or what if I trip and fall or what if people don’t like me, what if it’s boring etc.? All I do is remind myself, you think this is about you, Jody Moore. This is not about you. This is about the audience. This is about, even if there’s one person out there who takes one thing you say and it points them in a more useful direction, than you did your job. That’s it.

This isn’t about you impressing anyone. This isn’t about you making friends and winning people over. This is not about you. This is about something so much bigger than you. That is how I feel about the work I get to do. This is God’s work, to me it literally is. I don’t mean that everyone should be doing it. I don’t mean this is the right approach for everyone. I just mean that for me, this is what God wants me to do. This is how he wants me to support my family and be fulfilled and grow and develop myself and contribute in the world, I know that for sure.

Alright, everybody, thanks for joining me today. Like I said, we’ve got four more episodes because there are five Fridays in May, thankfully. So May is our 10 year birthday here at Jody Moore Coaching. I’ve got more lessons coming up for you next week, so stay tuned and then till then have a beautiful week. Bye bye.

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Do you have someone in your life who displays passive-aggressive behavior? Do you ever catch yourself being passive-aggressive with the people around you? Where does passive-aggressive behavior stem from? And how can you set yourself free from it?

I don’t know about you, but I believe every single one of us is guilty of passive-aggressive behavior from time to time. It’s especially easy to slip into this type of behavior around our loved ones, and it never feels good. If you find yourself being passive-aggressive as a result of other people’s passive-aggressive behavior but want to find a way out of this negative cycle, you’re in the right place.

Join me this week as I give you strategies to help you feel peaceful, confident, and compassionate, even when the people in your life aren’t. You’ll learn where passive-aggressive behavior stems from, why it’s a problem, and how to set yourself free from it for good.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What I find irritating about passive-aggressive behavior. * Examples of passive-aggressive behavior. * The real problem with passive-aggressive behavior. * Why we become passive-aggressive when other people are passive-aggressive toward us. * What to keep in mind if you’re on the receiving end of passive-aggressive behavior. * How to set yourself free from passive-aggressive behavior.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
Come check out The Lab!
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EntreLeadership

Welcome to episode 458. Today we’re talking about handling passive aggressive people. I’m sure that nobody listening to this podcast has anyone in their life who behaves in a passive aggressive way. But just in case I’m wrong, today I’m giving you some strategies to help you feel peaceful and confident and compassionate and open even when the people in your life are not. Are you with me?

Hey, everybody, how’s life? What’s happening? We are just trying to get spring to stick around. It’s kind of that time of year where we get glimpses of it and the weather gets nice and then it gets cold again. I guess that is spring. But my kids and I are constantly just checking the weather app hoping it’s going to be sunny. It’s probably not healthy. We should probably learn to enjoy our lives even when it’s cold. But what are you going to do? That’s where we’re at.

But I kind of love the end of the year. I think it’s kind of exciting to think about kids getting out of school and summer coming and it just feels like change and growth. And I’ve got a son graduating from high school this year. How did that happen? So I’m probably going to need some coaching from some of you when he goes away to college in the fall. I’m also getting ready to head out of town.

My husband and I are going to a couple of things for our business. We have a mastermind with a business coach that we work with in California. And then we’re going to EntreLeadership, which is put on by Dave Ramsey’s organization in Texas. And I’m looking forward to all of it so much. So hope you have some fun things going on as well.

Today we’re going to talk about passive aggressive people. So I just want to share that I last weekend got to speak to the adults in our stake. Our stake does these adult firesides that usually center around things like parenting or relationships or whatever and they’re really cool. They do them on Saturday nights at six o’clock and they’re just one hour. And then the idea is you come with your spouse, you learn something, you get enriched, and then you go to dinner after or whatever, kind of make a date night out of it.

So anyway, I got to speak about relationships and the work that I teach here at that, and it was so much fun. And there was a gentleman in the audience who raised his hand at one point and his wife was sitting right by him. And he says, “What do you do if your spouse is just really passive aggressive?” His wife just kind of got a slightly embarrassed look on her face. And I didn’t want to put her on the spot or make her feel uncomfortable. So I was kind of trying to read her non-verbals, but she kind of started nodding her head.

And I was like, “Do you think he’s right?” She’s like, “Yeah.” Which just says a lot about her, that she can admit it and acknowledge that sometimes she gets passive aggressive. And anyway I tried to help him. It was a little tough because again, I didn’t want to put her on the spot. But I started thinking about it afterwards about some things that I wish I would have added or said. And I thought, well, I’m going to do a podcast and see if I can help some people in this situation who have got someone in your life that is what you would call passive aggressive.

Okay, so let’s do it. So I looked it up on the internet, I think it was WebMD where I got my definition. And they defined passive aggressive behavior as somebody who is expressing negative feelings indirectly instead of openly talking about them. They gave a little bit more about the history of it coming from World War Two, I think when soldiers didn’t follow their commands, which was kind of interesting. But anyway, I like that definition, it’s kind of simple.

They’re expressing their negative feelings about something, but indirectly. So oftentimes I don’t know about you, but I find that when people are passive aggressive, and when I say people, I’m a person too. So I would have to admit that I can definitely be guilty of this and we’re going to talk more about that in a minute. But when people are passive aggressive, what I don’t like about it is I feel like they’re trying to manipulate me. Do you feel that way?

If they make it clear that they’re unhappy, but they’re not directly saying they’re unhappy, it feels like they’re trying to accuse me of doing something wrong. And that I’m the reason, my behavior or something I’m doing or not doing, etc., is the reason they’re unhappy. But they’re saying words that sound like them being polite or kind or being the bigger person, if you will, the more mature person. And I think that’s what, for me anyway, maybe you can relate to this, is so irritating about passive aggressive behavior is it feels fake. It feels like a lie.

So let’s talk about some examples. I’m going to use examples not from my own family. But my own family and myself included, I think we’re actually pretty guilty of passive aggressive behavior, every single one of us. I know because the internet went on to say that one of the most common forms of passive aggressive behavior is sarcasm. And I was like, “Ooh, you got me there.” I love a little sarcasm and all my whole family, we’re very sarcastic, but we’re still good people. But I don’t want to put my family’s stuff out there. So I’m going to use examples that are not my real examples.

Let’s say you have a mother-in-law, my mother in law’s not, she’s one of the least passive aggressive people I know, I think. So when I say my family, I mean my family of origin. But at any rate, let’s say you have a mother-in-law who says, “You know, we really wanted to host Thanksgiving at our house this year, but I guess it’s not our turn. And I guess we’ll just have to figure it out on our own because everybody wants to go someplace else.”

Notice the words are actually pretty reasonable. We wanted to host, but we’ll have to figure something else out. But the tone, the sarcasm behind it sends a completely different message. The sarcasm and the tone says, “I am upset about this and if the people in my family were better people, they would see that we should get a turn to host, they’d be more considerate. If people were more selfless like me, they would want to come to my house. But I’m going to be the selfless one here and just accommodate what they want.”

But the tone says something totally different. It says, “I’m mad about this and I’m having a little tantrum and a little fit in the hopes that you will feel bad enough that you’ll then give me what I want.” Is that a pretty good description of passive aggressive behavior? That’s how I feel it shows up a lot from the people I coach and in the examples I see in the world.

Maybe you have a spouse who is passive aggressive like this sweet gentleman at the adult fireside. I didn’t give specific examples, because again, I didn’t want to put them on the spot. But I’m wondering if I would have got examples if he would have said things like, “She says no, it’s fine that you’re going to go out with the guys and not hang out with me or it’s fine that you don’t want to go with me to that church activity. It’s fine. I’m fine. I’ll just go on my own.”

Because with the man. I should just explain the rest of his question, he said, “I try to guess what she means, but I often get it wrong.” And he’s a sweet little older man. He’s like, “I try to read between the lines of what she actually means, and then I get it wrong and then I’m in trouble again.” So here’s what I want to say.

First of all, I think this is important to keep in mind, which again as I was kind of reading up on the way that WebMD and the internet talks about passive aggressive behavior. They did go on to remind us that it stems from, when the person’s behaving passive aggressively, it stems from underlying anger, sadness or insecurity. So just reading that, I know that’s true.

If we pause and think about it, we all know that’s true. But being reminded of that helps me shift into a little bit of compassion for myself when I’m being passive aggressive and for the people around me when they’re behaving passive aggressively. Because it’s not coming from confidence. It’s not coming from feeling great. It’s not coming from having a good, solid relationship with yourself and feeling good about your life and confident about your future, which are all things that I want for people I love.

It’s coming from the opposite of those things. It’s coming from fear and insecurity and sadness and anger and not knowing what to do with those things and not being confident. And that’s too bad. We can have some compassion for that. That’s first of all.

Second of all, what I want you to do is pay attention to who you become when you’re at the receiving end of passive aggressive behavior. Here’s what’s interesting, and I just thought of this now. But the man who asked me that question, I’m sure he didn’t think about it this way, as none of us do. We don’t sit down and plot out our passive aggressive behaviors. We don’t go, “I know I’m going to say this in a snarky tone, and then they’re going to feel bad.” It’s not premeditated. I really don’t think it is hardly ever.

But this man asking me that question in front of probably 100 other adults in our stake and his wife is kind of passive aggressive. He’s saying, “I just genuinely want to understand.” But what he’s doing is kind of calling her out and putting her on the spot. And again, I don’t think he did that with intention at all. I don’t think it was premeditated, but it’s still, we could say passive aggressive, which is the most common thing that we do.

When somebody is behaving in what we think is a passive aggressive way, we become passive aggressive right back. Instead of saying what’s true, we start saying all the right words in a snarky tone. And maybe we say it to their face, or even worse, we just say it behind their back to other people, “Can you believe she said that?” I wanted to be like, “Well, I’m sorry, aren’t you special?”

Whether we say it out loud or we say it in our heads and then we maybe say it to other people, we become passive aggressive. Instead of expressing our negative feelings openly and talking about them, we become sarcastic. Interesting. What if that’s the real problem? The real problem with somebody being passive aggressive towards us is that we become passive aggressive back and that doesn’t feel good to us. It feels out of integrity. It feels childish. It feels snarky. And it feels powerless.

Because what we’re doing is trying to manipulate other people or at least complain about other people or at least get validation about other people so that we can feel better about ourselves. It’s just the long way around. So just notice that. Again, be compassionate with yourself when you notice, because just like other people being passive aggressive is coming from their own insecurity and fear, etc. When we become passive aggressive, we are also now operating from sadness, fear, anger, insecurity etc.

But what is the way out of this? What is the alternative? It’s two things. It’s number one, being more honest and open, including being vulnerable when necessary. So instead of shifting into passive aggressive behavior which is pretending and sort of lying and pretending everything’s fine, I have to tell the real truth. Now, again, whether you tell the truth to them directly out loud or just to yourself in your head is up to you. I think there’s appropriate times for both.

What I care most about is that you keep yourself centered and grounded and confident instead of moving into insecurity and passive aggressiveness. So I might, in my mind at least, to begin with, say something like, “Oh, that really was painful for me to hear my family member, whoever it was, say that thing and to see that they’re clearly upset and disappointed and hurt.” Even though their words didn’t say it, I can read in their tone and their body language that they are.

And I made that mean something negative about me. They even maybe made it mean something negative about me. And then I hurt myself by thinking that. I don’t like seeing them upset. I especially don’t like it when they think I’m the cause of their upset. This is upsetting to me. I just have to begin by acknowledging that instead of going, “Can you believe she said that? Can you believe she thinks that?” So I have to be like, “I feel uncomfortable when people are upset with me.” Good to know.

Now, if it feels appropriate to have a conversation out loud. Again, you would want to as much as possible be telling the truth. It’s hard to tell the truth. It’s easier to be passive aggressive, it really is. But the truth is, I feel really bad that you’re upset. And I feel guilty because I feel like you want me to do something about it. And the truth is, I’m not willing to change my Thanksgiving plans. And I’m so sorry if that’s upsetting to you. I don’t want to upset you. I love you. I care about your feelings, but this is where I’m at.

See what I’m saying? Telling the truth is the opposite of passive aggressive behavior. It’s actually quite lovable and understandable when we tell the truth, but maybe not. They may not hear it well, they may not receive it well. Remember, we’re not trying to manipulate their behavior or their feelings or get them to forgive us or to love us or any of that. You can’t take on this challenge of monitoring yourself in order to try to change them from being passive aggressive.

I would just assume they’re still going to do it, but you keep yourself out of a passive aggressive place by doing some truth telling, definitely to yourself and maybe to them. And the truth is messy. The truth is complicated. The truth contradicts itself a lot. The truth is, I want them to be happy, but I’m not willing to do this thing that they ask. Or the truth is, I am willing to do that thing that they ask, but I don’t want to do it out of resentment. So I’ve got to thank myself and believe in myself and change something before I can do it or whatever is the truth.

The truth is, I’m frustrated and I’m tired. The truth is, I’ve been taking on responsibility for their emotions for so long that I don’t know how to not do it. And now I need a boundary in order to get my head straight. That might be the truth. Telling the truth is the opposite of passive aggressiveness. And being willing to discuss difficult behaviors can be a safe place to discuss it or with the person maybe, depending on each specific circumstance. So that’s the first thing.

The second thing is you can just opt out of the game. Here’s what I mean. I do this a lot actually. There’s kind of a game that happens when we both become passive aggressive. One person says something with a little bit of a tone, so I know they mean something else. And then I reply with a little bit of a tone. And let’s just see if they can read between the lines of what I think and let’s see who can out-manipulate the other person. So instead of that, you just choose to, like I said, tell the truth.

But second of all, just believe whatever they say. Take the tone out, don’t read into it. Even if you know they meant something different. Who cares? You don’t have to play that game. I don’t mean who cares, like, forget them, we don’t care about them. We do care about them. I’m just saying you can decide to opt out of the game. I actually had a relationship in my life once where I noticed there was this game happening, this passive aggressive thing back and forth. I was participating in it too.

And I finally just said, “Listen, I’m going to tell you the truth. I’m going to try as hard as I can anyway to tell you the truth. So if I tell you, I am available to come and help you in this way, you can know that I’m telling you the truth. And if I’m not telling you the truth, that’s on me. You don’t have to do this whole, “You’re so busy. I know that probably, I don’t want to inconvenience you.” You don’t have to do that. You can just trust whatever I say because I’m either telling you the truth or I’m not. And I’m already taking full accountability for that.

Second of all, whatever you tell me, I’m going to take as the truth. I’m not going to try to read between the lines because it’s exhausting and frankly, I’m not even good at it. So I want to invite you to tell me the truth. I can handle it. I would much rather hear you say, “I’m really sad and hurt because I wanted to host Thanksgiving.” I would much rather that than you pretend that you’re not, but clearly you are.”

Now, again they may or may not change their behavior. I’m not telling them this in order to try to change them. I’m telling them so that when I just choose to believe what they say, if they say, “No, nobody’s coming here for Thanksgiving this year and you know what? I guess we’re just fine with that.” If I can’t take the tone out of it and hear it differently, here’s a little trick, ask Siri to say it to you or ask Alexa to say it to you. Type it in your phone and have Alexa say it. She takes the tone right out.

Those AI bots don’t have any passive aggressiveness in them. She’ll say, “I wanted to host Thanksgiving this year, but I guess everyone’s going somewhere else and that’s fine. I’ll just make do.” I love to play this game where I put it into Siri or Alexa and I have them say it. And there’s no tone. There’s no agenda. Everything’s just directly straightforward because they’re computers.

Then I say, “Okay, great, I’m glad you’re great with it. Well, we’re going to miss you and if we can do anything, let me know.” So you can literally just opt out of it, did you know this? You can literally opt out of it. Write their words down and take the tone out of it. Now, again, that might not always be appropriate.

Maybe sometimes it is appropriate to go, “I hear you saying that you’re okay with it, but I’m getting the sense that you’re not okay with it. Do you want to talk about something? I feel like your feelings are a little hurt and I’m so sorry if that’s the case.” That might be the appropriate way to handle it in some situations. I want you to have compassion. Use your human brain to make decisions about how to be a good, kind, compassionate person, but either way, I still can opt out of the game. Do you see it?

I can just take what they say, literally, or I can open up and give an invitation to be real and at least be real and honest myself. And it will take you right out of the game. I’m telling you, it will set you free. People who become passive aggressive are, first of all, in pain, and it might be the only way they know how to be in the world. And you don’t have to let that dictate your experience. You don’t have to let it put you into passive aggressiveness and you also don’t have to guess what they’re thinking.

One final thing and then I’ll let you go. Somebody came up to me afterwards. It was a gentleman again and he said, “I’m worried that maybe my wife and I are doing that passive aggressive thing because we’ll say to the kids, “Hey, we’d love for everyone to come over Sunday for dinner, but also if you’re busy, we don’t want to put you out. And so don’t feel bad if you can’t come, feel free to say no.””

And I don’t remember exactly how I answered him, but as I thought about it later, this is what I would have answered is, if that’s true for you, great, nothing wrong with saying that. But also, what’s wrong with, hey, we’re hosting dinner on Sunday and we’d love to see you, let me know if you can make it. And you drop the part about, just so you know, we don’t want anyone to feel pressured.

Because maybe we give people the benefit of the doubt, that they’re able to also be honest and vulnerable and tell us the truth. And that if they choose to come, maybe they really want to come. And if they say, “We’re busy and we’re not going to be able to make it”, then you show them, you don’t have to tell them that you’re not going to be offended or hurt and it’s okay. You just show them when they say, “We’re so sorry, we have other plans.” No problem. I’m glad you have a full life and I’m sure we’ll do it again soon.

So just some things to play with there because I feel like especially for those of you that have adult children, we get into this weird dance in adult child-parent relationships where we’re all trying not to step on each other’s toes. And it can easily slip into this disconnecting, not completely honest, not vulnerable type of conversation. But at any point, give people the benefit of the doubt and choose to not be passive aggressive yourself and it will go a long way.

Alright, thanks for joining me today, you guys. I love you so much. Have a beautiful week and I’ll see you next time.

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You’ve likely heard of the term decision fatigue, but are you familiar with decision energy?

The phenomenon of decision fatigue describes the physical, mental, and emotional depletion we feel when we have to make a bunch of decisions, especially within a certain time frame. However, have you ever considered the energy that making confident decisions could give you? What if fatigue could be prevented purely by shifting how we approach decision-making?

Join me this week to learn what decision energy means, and the important distinction between decisions and choices. You’ll hear how making confident decisions gives you energy and makes the choices available to you more obvious, what happens when you stay in indecision, and my top tips for gaining energy and momentum from your decisions.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The difference between decisions and choices. * Why part of you resists making decisions and how it’s holding you back. * Examples of how you might leverage decision energy in your daily life. * How to become a confident decision maker. * What happens when you don’t make decisions. * How to identify the difference between changing your mind and staying in indecision.

Mentioned on the Show:

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Welcome to episode 457, Decision Energy. You’ve heard of decision fatigue but have you heard of decision energy? Today I’m talking about the difference between decisions and choices. I’m going to teach you why part of all of us resist making decisions and how that’s holding us back. And from this understanding we’ll dive into how to become a confident decision-maker and gain energy and momentum from decisions as well as creating the life you truly desire.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Hey everybody, hope you’re having an awesome week. As of the time I record this, it’s spring break for my kids. We just got back from a little trip to the San Diego area. It was beautiful. I am excited to be here and talk to you about this podcast because one of the things I do a lot when I have a little time off like that is I listen to a lot of podcasts, audiobooks, personal development, inspirational things.

And I get so many ideas, some of them directly out of the mouths of other people but then I turn them into my own. And other times just hearing people who are in a really positive headspace triggers a lot of ideas for me. So this idea of decision energy is one that sort of came to me as I was listening to a bunch of stuff over the weekend. And I want to begin by acknowledging that there’s this phenomenon even in the world of psychology, it’s not a diagnosis, but it’s a phenomenon that’s recognized called decision fatigue.

And we talk about this a lot where we become physically, mentally and emotionally depleted if we have to make a whole bunch of decisions, especially within a certain timeframe. If we have a day of lots of choices, lots of decisions to make, we may find ourselves exhausted and depleted and less able to function at the highest level that’s available to us when we have more energy.

This can be true in certain occupations where maybe there are lots of decisions to constantly be made, especially if the decisions feel really weighty or heavy. I’m thinking of a surgeon, who has to make what could be potentially life altering decisions. So we see it show up more in certain fields than others, but it’s certainly something that I would say I can relate to at times in my life. Probably something you’ve experienced as well.

Well, what I want us to try on today is, I want us to reframe, instead of calling it decision fatigue, what if what it actually is, is choice fatigue? And some of it is inevitable, but a lot of it we can prevent by how we approach decisions. We all have choices to make all day long. And thanks to the amazing, abundant world we live in, we have more choices than ever but we still only ever have a handful of decisions that really require our attention.

And when we use our human brains, the capacity, our God given capacity to make decisions, then it should help us have fewer choices to make or make the choices much more obvious when they do come up. So I want you to think of decisions and choices as two different things. Decisions are the bigger picture, longer term sort of commitments, you might say, that we make that should make then the choices that come up really obvious. So if you make just a few confident decisions then you won’t have to make very many choices thereafter. Are you with me?

Let’s look at some examples. If you are married, then at some point you made the decision to marry a certain person. If you’re in the kind of marriage where you’re just married to one person and you are monogamous, in whatever way you want to define that. Then it should mean that other choices are not even necessary for your brain to entertain. Giving you a lot more brain power and energy to focus on different things.

So if I’m married and my company has a Christmas party and I want to take a date. Then I don’t have to spend a lot of time thinking about who I’m going to take as my date. I’m going to take my spouse. So it’s pretty obvious in certain areas of your life. Now, this doesn’t mean we’re perfect always at honoring our decisions. And we’ll come back to that in just a minute.

But ideally the decision to marry a certain person means that other choices now I don’t have to waste my brain power, my energy on entertaining. I simply already know what the choice is that lines up with my decision. If you made the decision to be a parent at some point, then that should change some of the choices now that you make in your life. I decided to be a mother, that means when it’s time to pick my kids up from school, I go pick them up from school even if I would rather go play pickleball with my friends.

If I’ve got children that I’m responsible for and I’m their mother and I don’t have any other way to get them home and have them cared for then that’s the choice I’m going to make. Becoming a mother, the decision to become a mother, I should say, causes me to then override some other choices, not all choices. I’m just saying, some of the choices are off the table now that I’ve decided to become a parent. So again, we all do this in certain areas of our life. We make decisions that then guide our choices.

Now, if we choose to, we can leverage that in other areas of our life, areas where we may be stalled out or not progressing or not getting the results that we want. We need to take a look at our decision energy and decide, have I leveraged the energy that’s available to me by deciding or am I doing the opposite, which is draining me because I have so many choices to constantly be making? What is the opposite of deciding? It’s being undecided? It’s being confused. It’s just not knowing what we want or what we’re going to do.

Now, most people when I’m coaching, describe indecision, confusion, not knowing as just something that’s happening to them instead of describing it how I want to offer to you, as a choice. We choose to be undecided by just choosing not to make a decision. We choose to be confused. We choose to not know what to do because we could easily just decide and say, “This is what I’m going to do. This is what I’ve decided to think. This is what I’ve decided to try. This is who I’ve decided to be.”

And taking all other choices off the table and not entertaining other choices, that is available to you and I know it feels hard to do. I’m going to give you some tips in just a minute. I just want you to try on the idea that it’s a choice you make to make a decision so that you don’t have to make a bunch of choices. That’s it. How do we know what the right thing is to do? We don’t, we don’t know.

People who decide, I’m going to go after this goal, this is the goal I’m setting. It’s not that they know the right goal. They just decide what the goal is. They just commit to a goal. They just pick a goal. They just take a guess. It literally is a guess. I’m not saying it’s a completely uninformed guess. I’m not saying you wouldn’t want to learn from other people or take your personal life experience as you make your guess. But your brain will already do that automatically because it’s really good at doing all of that. You just have to make a decision and go with it.

Not making decisions as much of the time as you possibly can, will cause you to waste time, waste money and waste your life. And that’s important to keep in mind, because your brain might believe the opposite is true. Your brain might tell you if it’s like most of our brains, that you should stay in indecision because if you make a decision to move forward, that might be the wrong choice. And then you will have wasted time or money or your life. And I want to tell you that your brain is very wrong about that, here’s how we know.

Let’s say you’re trying to decide, you’re at a fork in the road and you’re trying to decide, should I go down path A or path B? You can apply this to any decision you’re trying to make in your life. Do I choose path A or path B? As long as I stay in indecision and not knowing what the right path is, I stay right there at the fork in the road. But if I choose path B and maybe I head down that path and maybe I get halfway down that path and then I realize this was the wrong path. Then I go back to the beginning and then head down path A.

Now, if your brain’s like, “See, that would have been a waste of time”, if we got halfway down path B. I want to make a counterargument. Heading halfway down path B and then turning around and coming back is still a better use of my time or whatever other resources we’re talking about than staying at the fork in the road because now I know I want path A. Before then all I can do is take a guess. Until I head down a path, sometimes, many times we don’t even know what’s the right path until we try one out. That’s it. That’s the reality.

Not to mention, as I went down path B, I probably learned something. I might have met somebody. I might have contributed something to someone else. There’s so much more happening. There’s more growth. It’s a better use of my time, a better use of my resources, a better use of my life to head down a path, even if it’s the wrong path than to sit at the fork of the road trying to take the right guess. There are no right guesses. We have to move forward before we have that true knowing of what we want. Are you with me?

So one of the things I want you to keep in mind if you’re like, wow, I’m at that point, I’m at this fork in the road. I can’t clearly see here from the fork what the right decision is. I’m going to have to just make a decision and move forward and it’s scary. If that’s you, then first of all, I want you to remember that no decision is permanent. I should say, most decisions aren’t permanent because there may be some that are permanent.

For example, if I decide to have a child, maybe I’m trying to decide whether I should have another baby or not. And I decide to have a baby, that’s a pretty permanent decision. Most of the paths that would then lead me in a different direction, maybe abandoning the child at some point or whatever, are going to be choices that most of us are probably not going to want to make. So we might say, some decisions are permanent. I’m with you on that. Well, first of all, most of them are not, so keep that in mind.

Most of the choices we’re making are not permanent, but even the ones that are, there’s always a way to get to the destination you’re trying to get to. So let’s say I’m like, “Path A or path B?” I pick path B and it’s a permanent decision. And I get halfway down and I start realizing, this is harder than I thought or this is challenging or this isn’t creating what I want.

Well, maybe we thought that path B was going to be the fastest, easiest way to get to our destination. And maybe we’re realizing now it’s not. That doesn’t mean you can’t get to your destination, I promise. Because the destination all of us actually want is to feel better about ourselves, to feel better about our lives, to find more peace and joy and fulfillment and happiness and love. And less resentment and frustration and shame and guilt and overwhelm and fear.

The final destination is always just feeling better. So even if we realize, oh, shoot, I picked path B and if I would have picked path A, it would have been faster and easier for me to get to the destination. It’s fine because we can still get to the destination no matter what. I really do believe that. Alright, so that’s the first thing to keep in mind. I should say most decisions are not permanent.

I could change my mind, but here’s the thing. How do we know the difference between changing our mind and just not fully deciding? Because your brain, if it’s like mine, will try to get tricky with you and tell you that you’re just changing your mind when the truth is you’re still in indecision. You haven’t fully committed. You haven’t given this path enough time, effort, energy, and commitment to try to see it through. This is what I think is the difference.

I think that indecision doesn’t require much courage, even though it doesn’t feel good because we don’t like feeling stuck, but it’s not scary. Whereas decisions are scary because we’re foregoing other choices. And we’re going to now take action, and we’re going to move forward. We’re going to go down that path and there’s going to be some things down that path that we’re afraid of but there will be things we don’t even know to be afraid of yet. So decisions take courage.

And if you are making a new decision versus just quitting and staying in indecision you will know because you have given enough action to the first decision to have a true knowing of what’s right. Let me say that again. The way to know whether you’re on track making a new decision or you just didn’t commit to the first decision is you will have a true knowing of what’s right because you took enough action to try to make it work. You spoke freely out loud about your decision. That’s one side.

When we’re really quiet and don’t tell anyone. It often means it’s because we haven’t fully decided and we don’t want anyone to come along and ask us and we changed our mind a month later. So you speak about it often and confidently. And if that’s just not your personality to be outspoken about yourself and your life, then make it fit for you. Do you write about it in your journal? Do you talk to God about it if you’re a prayerful person? How do you handle decisions that you fully made, are you handling this decision that way, or are you noticing that you’re in indecision about it?

How much action are you taking? And that might be something you want to decide ahead of time. When I work with entrepreneurs on this, there’s a lot of decisions to be made as an entrepreneur. A lot of times I say, “Let’s commit to this decision until this point.” I do this in my own business too, actually. I’m like, “We’re going to commit to executing this strategy for a year. We’re not going to change our minds for a year or until we help this many people. Until we have this many people that we are able to help through this program, we’re not changing course.”

So sometimes I do like to decide it like that in advance if I know it’s going to be tempting for me to jump back out of a decision too early without a really confident knowing.

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So most decisions are not permanent, even the ones that are, it’s still available to you to get to the destination you want. I want to talk a little bit more to entrepreneurs, especially coaches trying to grow coaching businesses because I coach a lot of you in The Lab and this comes up a lot.

So if you are let’s say a newer coach just starting out, I would recommend that you make a decision about what you want to achieve in your business in let’s say the next three years. So for example, again if you’re newish or brand new, just starting out, you might decide, in the next three years, I’m going to get my business to a point where it generates $500,000 a year in revenue. I want you to try on whatever number you want to pick or whatever time frame you want to pick, you pick. I’m just using that as an example.

I want you to try on making that decision. Notice the difference between I’m going to try to make $500,000 in my business or I’m going to make $500,000 in my business within the next three years. I just decided that’s what I’m going to do. They feel very different. And what most coaches say to me, I ask them, “What are you trying to create? What are you trying to achieve?” It might be a money goal. It might be an impact goal. It might be a time goal.

I work with coaches sometimes who are working way too many hours and hustling too much. And I’m like, “What if you just decided you are only working 25 hours a week or 35 hours a week or whatever?” And they’d say, “I’m going to try.” I’m like, “No, no, no, that’s not making a decision. That’s pretending to make a decision. That’s being interested in a result. It’s not being committed to a result.” And there’s a big difference between being interested in a result and committed to a result.

Decisions commit you and they eliminate other choices, which is a huge gift to give yourself because choices drain our energy. So not, I’m going to try to hit this mark, but I just decided this is what I’m going to do in the next three years. Now, it also feels kind of scary to say that, to say, “I decided this”, feels a lot scarier than saying, “I’m going to try to do this.” But again, let’s go back to some of our examples.

What if, as you got married, you said to your spouse, “I’m going to try to be faithful to you.” Does anybody say that when they get married? I don’t think so. Even though not everybody’s perfect at being faithful, we still don’t go into it with that intention. We go into it saying, “I’m going to love and cherish and honor you. I’m going to be faithful to you.” That’s what we decide. Imagine if we’re like, “I’m going to try, but we’ll just see how it goes.” We don’t do that in these areas where we’re much better at making decisions because we know that’s not a decision. Trying is not a decision.

So you decide and then you commit to the actions that you think will help you achieve that result. So again, if you’re an entrepreneur trying to grow your business, you have to commit to working. Listen up, especially those of you who are like me, who are in the thick of raising kids and working from home. So many of you get frustrated with not making progress and you’re not showing up and working.

You’re not sitting down doing the things that are necessary to serve people in the world. The way that you get clients as a coach is, you go serve and take care of people in the world and you monitor how it’s going. And if it’s not landing for people or they’re not moving along and they’re not interested in what you offer, then you change it up. You have to do a better job of serving people. You have to do a better job of finding the people who want your help. You have to keep going. You have lots of work to do.

Coaches will tell me, “Well, I’m only working a little bit because I don’t have a full roster of clients yet.” I’m like, “Well, then you’ve got lots of work to be doing.” It’s just not coaching work yet. It’s still coaching, it’s just not coaching in a formal paid way. It’s creating content that can help people, it’s whatever other strategy you want to use. I don’t want to turn this into a marketing call, but my point is you’ve got to show up and work.

So that means when do you work and where do you work? And if somebody calls you up and says, “Hey, do you want to go to lunch tomorrow”, and you’ve already decided that you’re going to hit a certain goal in three years, and it’s a big enough goal that it’s going to challenge you. Then you say, “I’d love to go to lunch, but I can’t. I work on Wednesdays. Can we go to lunch on Saturday because I don’t work Saturdays?” Do you see what I mean? You’ve got to say no to choices that don’t align with this decision.

And when your kids say, “Mom, will you take us to the park today?” You say, “I would love to take you to the park. It’s going to have to be after I’m done working because I’m working today until this time.” Just like if you worked for somebody else. This is what blows my mind is we go out of our way to follow through on helping other people achieve their dreams, but we abandon our own dreams for no reason at all.

What I mean by that is, if you got a job working for another company or if you have a job working for another company and your kid said, “Will you take me to the park”, you’d say, “I’d love to. It’ll have to be when I’m done working because I have a job and I’m committed to be working right now until this time.” But when it’s your own dream and your own goal, I don’t know about you but I can abandon that for no reason at all, I just don’t feel like it today. That is not making a decision. That’s indicative of, I haven’t made a decision.

I’m still entertaining all kinds of choices like, do I feel like it. It’s really not a relevant question for me around the goals I’ve really decided. The other thing I was thinking about is the great lengths we will go to, to honor the decisions we make to other people, the commitments we make to other people.

Like, hey, kids, bad news. I know you don’t want to hear this, and I know it’s going to be hard, but we’ve got to move. We’re moving to another state. We’re moving to another country. We’re moving because mom or dad took a job with another company, and they’re requiring that we live there. And so we’re going to help you through it and this will be hard, but we’re going to do it. And we will relocate our whole families to help somebody else’s dream come true, but we won’t even say no to a friend to help our own dream come true. That’s because of lack of decisions. We haven’t made concrete decisions.

The good news is when it is your own business, you actually have a lot more choices that you can make that line up with the decision you made than if you’re working for someone else oftentimes. Not always the case, but that’s usually the case. So be careful, though, about letting that get away from you.

Let’s talk about this with our health. I made the decision just a couple of months ago, I decided I am not getting type 2 diabetes. I just decided. I didn’t say, “I’m going to try not to.” The doctor ran my blood work and said, “You have insulin resistance also known as pre diabetes according to this one lab. We need to run some more labs.” But at any rate according to the one that he ran he’s like, “Your blood is coming back pre diabetic.” And I decided, I am not getting type 2 diabetes.

So I decided I am going to reverse my insulin resistance and I am going to head the other direction. That’s a decision I’ve made. Now, do you know what that’s requiring of me? A lot. It’s requiring that I change the way I eat. I’m not fully there yet, but I’m making big strides and I’m feeling really empowered as I do it. It’s requiring, and when I say require, I mean these are the choices I made. This is what I decided would be the way that I would reverse my type 2 diabetes based on other experts I’ve learned from and books that I’ve read, and lots of other people’s suggestions.

But I decided for me what was going to be doable and what was going to work. And that’s really important as you make decisions. You’re the decision-maker. You decide how you’re going to do it. I decided to wear a CGM or a Continuous Glucose Monitor. I monitor my glucose 24 hours a day, seven days a week, as though I were a type 2 diabetic or a type 1 diabetic even, needing to monitor my glucose so that I know if I need insulin or not. I’m not taking insulin. I’m not taking any medication at this point.

I’m just monitoring my glucose so that I am more well informed about how certain foods affect my body and how movement affects my body and how sleep and water and all of that. I’m just empowering myself with more knowledge. That’s it. I’m following a system I use of herbal mate that I drink to help me with intermittent fasting and a fiber supplement. And I don’t want to go into detail on that right now. Those of you in The Lab, I’ve been talking about that.

So this is my point, I decided I’m not getting type 2 diabetes. Do you know what it’s done? It’s eliminated so many choices for me. It’s narrowed my choices significantly at least. It’s narrowed down the foods I should be choosing from to eat. It’s even narrowed down when I eat and how frequently I eat. And it’s reduced my choices such that I don’t have to waste my brain power on making those kinds of choices very much anymore.

Now, here’s what I want to say. A part of us doesn’t like that. Even though making choices drains our energy, it would be ideal to have fewer choices. There’s another part of us, the little toddler part of us that has a little tantrum, that thinks we’re missing out on something fun. And if I eliminate choices when it comes to my food or my free time or who I’m hanging out with or whatever else, that I’m going to miss out on something fun, poor me and we have a little fit.

And in certain areas of our lives we give in to that toddler at times, maybe, like I said, I promised you I’d bring this back around. Sometimes people are not faithful in their marriages. Certainly sometimes we’re not perfect at eating in the way that we know serves our bodies, I’m not in any way perfect at that. Sometimes we’re not perfect at following through on our calendar and sitting down and working when we said we were going to work.

So this is what I want to tell you is, first of all, I think it’s okay and I even think it’s necessary to sometimes redecide. Certainly if there’s been infidelity in your marriage or something like that, it’s going to be necessary to redecide do I want to be in this marriage? Do I want to be married to this person? And what kind of spouse do I want to be? And what kind of marriage do we want to have?

But even if that’s not the case, even if there’s not some kind of discretion like that, I think it’s really healthy to redecide to be married over and over again throughout your life. Because the alternative is, we get away from the momentum and the power of the decision, and we now start feeling trapped or stuck. And remember, you’re not trapped or stuck. In most cases, you can make a new decision. You are not stuck in your marriage. You don’t have to stay married.

If you redecide, then you can re-tap into that energy and momentum and motivation that comes from making a decision. Certainly this is the case I see for a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of us on our health journey is, we have to redecide, recommit and that’s okay. So it might be necessary to redecide. The other thing that happens is, sometimes we’re testing the parameters. We’re testing the limits my dad used to say when we were kids, “You’re testing my limits right now, and you just found it. That’s my limit.”

So there is this natural inclination within us to test boundaries, test limits. And I don’t know, maybe that’s something that we need to work on in certain areas. But I do think we have to have compassion for ourselves around our, for whatever reason, sort of innate drive to want to do that. In other words, if I want to reverse my pre diabetes. Does that mean I can never eat sugar again? Or does it mean I can eat some sugar if I just cut back on the sugar and I eat it in the right time and I eat it with certain foods? And I’m experimenting with that.

Or does it mean that along with, sometimes I can have a whole weekend where I kind of eat whatever I want or I can go on vacation and eat whatever I want. And then I can come back and get myself back on track. And everybody has advice about what you can and can’t do and what the limits are. But the best way to find out is to be scientists and test your own body. So sometimes it’s us sort of pushing the limits or testing for boundaries of what we can do. Other times, we need to recommit and redecide and you get to be the judge of that.

I want to share with you just one other decision that I made recently that might seem like a small thing, but it’s helping me again with choices. And that is, I say this with air quotes, I say it really loosely, but I’ve decided I’m going to be a ‘minimalist’ in air quotes, ‘minimalist’. Air quotes because my version of minimalism, some of you might look at and go, “That is not minimalism, Jody Moore.” But I know what I mean by it. And compared to the amount of stuff I’ve owned before, minimalism, I’m really excited about.

I’m excited about it because I know for sure that having less stuff makes my life better. And it just frees up my head and my time and just there’s so many benefits to it, I think we all know this. Most of us have too much stuff. So I have decided to become a minimalist. So I’m at the grocery store the other day.

And like I said, I’ve been drinking this mate kind of herbal tea supplement in the mornings that really helps my blood sugar and helps me feel good. And I have to put lemon juice and lime juice in with it or else it tastes pretty bad to me. But if I just squeeze a little bit of lemon, squeeze a little bit of lime, it’s great. And I sip on it most of the day. So I’m new to that. I don’t normally drink lemon water. I don’t like lemon in my Diet Coke or whatever. So I’m new to this whole buying lemons and limes and cutting them up and using them regularly.

And so I’m in the grocery store and in one of the aisles what catches my eye is this lemon squeezer thing. You know what I mean? It’s shaped like half a lemon, and it has handles and you put the lemon in there and then you squeeze it and it squeezes the juice out of your lemon for you. So my brain’s like, “Maybe I should get that.” Because I use lemon juice a lot, and I could avoid getting my fingers all sticky and having to rinse them off and that might be cool. Maybe I need that lemon squeezer thing.

And then suddenly remembered the decision I made to be a minimalist. I don’t need a lemon squeezer. I have my own lemon squeezer. It’s the thumb and fingers that God gave me. And I can squeeze my own lemons and not have one more little funky device in my drawer in my kitchen. So no, not getting the lemon squeezer because I’m a minimalist. So listen, this might sound like a little trivial thing, but it’s not. It’s so powerful.

Decisions should come from the life you want to live and from the person you’re trying to be who can create the life you want to live. Who are you trying to become? What does that person do? And what kind of life do they create in the process? Make decisions today that will make your choices much more obvious.

Alright, thanks for joining me today for Decision Energy. I’ll see you next time. Take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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I’ve been coaching lots of men lately inside The Lab, and one of the most prevalent topics that has been coming up in these conversations is under-earning. If you also have the desire to earn more money but don’t know how or where to start, you’re in the perfect place.

The reality is that most of us are under-earning, but the great news is that if you have the desire to earn more, you most definitely have the capacity to. That’s why, this week, I’m laying out the most common causes of under-earning and the solutions you can implement to start making more money right now.

Tune in this week to learn my definition of under-earning and how to identify if you might be under-earning. You’ll hear what’s preventing you from earning more money, whether that’s through your job or business, and my top under-earning solutions that will help you start seeing the possibilities available to you.

Spinning in niche drama? I’ve helped so many coaches nail their niches over the years, and I’ve created a two-hour workshop to help you do the same. Click here to join Nail Your Niche, happening on April 16th 2024.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* My definition of under-earning. * How to identify if you’re under-earning. * Some of the most common causes of under-earning. * The difference between belief and attachment. * How money doesn’t come from working hard. * The power of using your imagination in earning more. * My top under-earning solutions.

Mentioned on the Show:

Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
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Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore
Brooke Castillo
Dr. Cal Newport: How to Enhance Focus and Improve Productivity, Huberman Lab Podcast

Welcome to episode 456, Under-Earning Solutions. Today we’re talking about money, specifically your money, the money you bring in through your job, your business, or however you make money and how to increase the flow of money in your life. I have been doing a lot of coaching on this topic lately, especially with men in The Lab and I want to point out what I think are the most common causes of under-earning and the solutions you can implement and start making more money right away. Let’s do this.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

What’s happening everybody? Welcome to another episode. We’re going to talk about under-earning solutions today. And I sort of mentioned this a little bit in the intro, but we’ve had more and more men joining us in The Lab, which I am so delighted about. I love coaching men. Coaching is so powerful for men. And I appreciate the men who have been getting coached because I know, well, this is true for anybody, but it requires a certain level of vulnerability to get coached and I know that can be scary.

And sometimes the way men have been socialized in at least western culture is that they’re not supposed to be vulnerable, and they’re not supposed to admit if they’re nervous or insecure or uncertain. ‘That’s not manly’. But the truth is, men and women experience all of those emotions and it’s really powerful. Coaching is a really powerful way to work through them and create more of what you want in your life.

So at any rate, one of the topics that has come up a lot with the men I’ve been coaching is what I’m calling under-earning. They don’t usually come to me using that word, but that’s how I want to talk about it today. So what is under-earning, first of all, how do we know if we’re under-earning? Originally, I mean that’s a word obviously that I have heard before.

But I really love the way, within the last few years, my coach, Brooke Castillo has started talking about this word ‘under-earning’. Her definition is that it is making less money than you want to make and are capable of making. I’m actually going to simplify that definition even more so. I like to take off the part about whether or not you’re capable of it, because I find that for myself and many of you who I coach, your brain tells you maybe you’re not capable of it. It’s just so common to have doubt and fear.

If it’s an amount of money that you’ve never made before then part of your human brain will doubt it. And I want to just remove that obstacle for you. Here’s what I believe. If you have the desire to earn more money, and I’m not talking about just having the money. There’s a difference between having money and earning money, making money.

If you have the desire to do more, to serve more, to put more goodness out into the world, to provide more value. Whether that’s through an organization. Maybe that’s providing a different kind of value, maybe you go from being a frontline worker up to leadership positions that tend to make more money. We would say that’s providing more value because you’re impacting a number of employees who then are providing the service or product that the company provides.

So if you’re interested in earning more money, you have a desire to, then my belief is that you have the capacity to. I just believe that we have the capacity to achieve anything we truly desire. If you don’t desire it, maybe you don’t have the capacity and that’s fine as well. So if you’re making less money, if you’re earning less money than you desire to earn, not have, then we would say you are under-earning. My opinion is that probably most, if not all of us are under-earning. I should say most, not all.

There are actually people I come into contact with and it’s not all that uncommon, who say, “I’m just very content. I don’t have the desire to do more, to give more, to make more, to see what else I’m capable of.” And I don’t say that with any judgment at all. I think it’s perfectly fine if you’re just content. But if you have that desire, that nudge, then you have the capacity, that’s my belief. And by the way, not having the desire doesn’t mean that you don’t have the capacity. There can be a lot of reasons that you don’t have it.

So the reason I like the word ‘under-earning’ is for me anyway, it doesn’t bring up the same kind of scarcity or shame or heaviness as other descriptors we tend to use, like we just don’t have enough money. Our money is really tight. We’re not good with money. We’re not making much money. I don’t know about you, but for me, those thoughts, those sentences, all bring up scarcity and fear and worry.

And if you have thoughts like, if I were better or stronger or something like that or I should have more money, I should have this figured out, all of that’s going to bring up shame. So I don’t want you to feel scarcity or shame. But I do want you to notice your potential because I do believe that most of us have untapped potential. So that’s why I like the word under-earning. I’m just under-earning. It’s not wrong. It’s not bad. But it also to me kind of implies that there’s so much more available, and that’s kind of exciting.

It’s kind of cool to know that I have the capacity to do a lot more good in the world and make a lot more money along the way. So I’m going to give you some causes of under-earning so that we can then address the solutions to under-earning.

And the first one I want to talk about is what I call a thinking error. And it is a dominant thought that I hear always from men so far when I coach them on it, but even a lot of women have this thought as well, which is this idea that money comes from working hard. You work hard and you’ll make more money. And a lot of us were taught that growing up. If you’re just willing to get in there and work hard, you can be successful. You can take care of yourself. You can do well in life.

So I just want to clear something up. Money doesn’t come from working hard. I hope this is good news. Some of you think it’s bad news because you’re like, “Well then how am I going to get it? Because I’ve been working hard. I’m willing to work hard, yet I’m not seeing the money.” Guess what? Money doesn’t come from working hard. Money comes from going after wins and losses, what my kids call W’s and L’s.

Sidebar story. Just humor me. We were in Salt Lake City, and there’s a street in Salt Lake City called West Temple. But when we turned out of whatever parking garage we were in on this road sign, it said W Temple and my 10 year old Oliver was like, “Mom, look, W Temple.” Because to them, W means win and going to the temple is a win to us. So anyway that was kind of cute. He’s like, “Of course it says W Temple.”

Today’s episode is brought to you by Nail Your Niche. If you are a coach or a teacher who has the beginnings of a business or intends to soon, you are likely in the thick of niche drama. How do I know? I’ve worked with hundreds of coaches and they all, myself included, seem to go through it. But there is one difference between the ones who spin for years struggling to gain traction and the ones who accelerate and gain momentum and then succeed. It’s their ability to get out of niche drama and nail their niche instead.

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Anyway, back to W’s and L’s. Money comes from going after W’s and L’s. Now, why would we be going after W’s and L’s? Why wouldn’t we just go after W’s? Well, because that’s not really an option in the world we live in as far as I’ve found. I have not found anyone who has been able to win consistently at whatever they’re striving to do without losing even more of the time usually than they’re winning, but at least some of the time. So we have to go after W’s and L’s.

If we think we’re just going after W’s, we probably won’t go after it, not with much aggression, not with much success. You have to go after W’s and L’s. So in other words, I’m not opposed to you working hard, but you may not need to work as hard as you think. What you definitely will need to do is go after wins and losses. So if you are working for another company, you might need to go ask them to pay you more money. Have you done that, and if so, how many times? Because maybe just asking, does it.

So many people I know are working for a company, they think they’re not making enough money. I’m like, “Have you asked for more?” “Well, no.” “Okay, why not?” Go ask for more. If they say no, you just got an L. That’s so much better than you just sitting back, working hard, thinking that you should be making more money. Maybe they’ll say yes. If they say no, ask them why not. Ask what you would need to do in order to be more valuable to them. Tell them how much money you want to make and ask them what value you would need to provide that would make you worth that amount.

Even better, create a job, do some of that figuring out on your own. Figure out, this is what I see my company needs. This is where I know I can add value or this is where I see that they’re struggling. And here’s a solution I know I could provide. And here’s how much money I could make them if I’m able to fill this gap or meet this need for them. It’s a no brainer, take it to them. Here’s the solution. Here’s how I am going to play a key role in it and here’s what I’d like to get paid for it. Have you done that?

Have you done it 75 times? If not, we’ve got to rack up some more W’s and L’s. Have you applied for a promotion? If so, how many times? Because if you’re under-earning, we need to rack up more L’s so that we can rack up more W’s. Apply for more promotions. Apply for jobs you’re not even sure you’re qualified for. What’s the harm? Just apply. Think how much you would learn.

Think what it would show in terms of your willingness and your ambition and your desire to grow and learn and contribute to the company if you just kept applying for promotions. If that’s not an option, have you applied for other jobs? Have you gone out and looked around on the internet even for jobs that would pay double what you’re making now and tried applying for them? If not, you’re not racking up enough W’s and L’s if that’s going to be the strategy. I’m not saying you have to do all of these things. I’m saying pick a strategy.

In what way do you want to tackle this under-earning problem and make some progress? And be willing to rack up tons of W’s and L’s. That means you have to ask in some form or another for more money. And they are probably going to say no a lot of the time. But at some point someone will say yes, if you keep asking, you keep thinking, you keep making yourself more valuable. Maybe you need to gain some skills. Maybe you need to get some experience.

Maybe you need to make yourself valuable and then go ask people to pay you for your value. And you can do that working for someone else. You can of course do that as well in your own business. So listen, I hear this from entrepreneurs all the time. They say to me, “I’m working so hard, but it’s just not working. I’m not making the money I want to make. I’m not selling as much product as I want to. I’m not getting the clients I want to.”

“Well, are you racking up W’s and L’s? Are you asking people to buy? Are you putting yourself out there, not just putting content out there?” I know that’s scary too. Those of you who have businesses that look anything like mine, where we do some version of content marketing, that’s what this podcast is meant to do is supplement my coaching or on social media or whatever. If you put content out there, I know that’s scary.

But this podcast that I put out is part of supporting my coaching business, but it doesn’t rack up W’s and L’s because I don’t have the opportunity to get a yes or a no. Even though the programs that I run as a coach sponsor this podcast, it’s still not a direct yes or no until I ask you, “Would you like to buy this thing, yes or no?” I haven’t racked up W’s or L’s. I need to get as close to that point in the process as possible to be able to say, “I’m having successes or I’m having failures, now what?” Wins and losses.

Put your work out there and ask to be paid for it. That’s what I’m saying. Don’t just work hard, find ways to serve people. That those people are willing to pay money for and then ask them to pay you for your service. It’s that simple. If you’re not doing that, it doesn’t matter how hard you work, you will likely stay stuck in an under-earning situation.

The last thing I want to say about this before we move on is that it’s great to have hobbies and interests and things you love. And I do believe you can make good money doing what you love. But I think the quote, do what you love and the money will follow is terrible advice. I don’t think that’s true. I think doing what you love can be amazing and you can choose to do it and not try to monetize it. Or you can monetize it, but you’re going to have to take what you love and match it to something that the marketplace values, something that people are willing to pay money for.

That’s going to mean you’re going to have to sacrifice some of your opinions possibly, or the way you love doing it in order to create something people want to pay money for. So just tell yourself the truth. Make it a hobby if you don’t want to have to sacrifice anything. Let’s take music for example, maybe you’re a musician and you love to write songs. Write songs the way you want to all day long, I love it. It’s a really awesome, healthy thing to do.

But if you’re going to try to sell those songs, then you’re going to have to write songs that people want to buy. And the song someone wants to buy might not be the exact same version of the song you actually would write if you weren’t trying to sell it to someone. Sometimes they can be the same, great, lovely if they are, but they may not be. So either call it what it is, a hobby or interest, or be willing to create what the marketplace values. And when I say marketplace, I mean what are people willing to pay money for?

Now, how do we find this out? How do we know what people love and will pay money for? You test it out. You try it, if you’re going to incorporate whatever it is that you love into solving your under-earning problem. If you have something you love and you can match it with what other people want, you may have a win. You find out by testing it. You offer it to people. You rack up W’s and L’s. You create an awesome offer that someone would pay for.

Now, here’s the good news. You do get to be creative and play. I am not saying that it has to be a thing that people already know they want. They may not know they want it. There’s a couple of really well known quotes about this, one from Steve Jobs. There’s a part in Walter Isaacson’s bio on Steve Jobs where Steve Jobs’ team is telling him, “We need to do market research and we need to find out what people want.” And I can’t remember if they were creating the Mac or the iPhone at the time, but what he said is, “People don’t know what they want until I show them.”

So if you’re really bold and ambitious, you can create something that people didn’t even know they want and then sell it to them. But remember, you’re still going to have to test. You’re going to have to test it to figure out, in most cases, what works. Henry Ford’s also famous for saying, “If I were to ask people what they wanted, they would have said they wanted a faster horse.” I think it was Henry Ford that said that.

Anyway, you can be creative. You can use your imagination. You can take something you already know people want and create your version of it or you could create something people don’t even know they want. But the point is, if people don’t want it, we’re not going to be able to solve our under-earning problem.

Last thing, use your imagination. Whether you’re, again, starting from people don’t know they want this or people do but I’m going to create my version of it. I’ve got to stand out. I’ve got to make it different. I’ve got to make it unique. I’ve got to make it compelling. Use your imagination. Einstein said, “Imagination is more important than knowledge.” This is so true when it comes to under-earning problems.

A huge part of our under-earning problem is we are not using our imagination and then going out and offering it to people and getting told no over and over again and racking up L’s so that we can rack up W’s. Imagination is more important than knowledge. And then Einstein goes on to say, “Knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world.” I love that quote.

Okay, second thing I want to talk about. Second under-earning problem that I see over and over again is that people don’t know what they want and therefore they are distracted by what wants them. I am guilty of all of these, but especially this one. If you don’t know what you want, then what wants you is going to be very distracting. That’s quote, Jody Moore, I just came up with that on my own. Brilliant. But this is the reality.

So what do you want in the next three to five years, let’s say? I kind of like that timeline because it’s short enough that I can maybe wrap my head around it, but it’s far enough out that it’s challenging. I have to really think through it. What do I want my life to look like in the next, let’s call it four years? And are the things I’m putting my time and effort into right now taking me towards that goal or are they distractions because these are things that want me in the present?

Here are what I see to be the most common, what I’m calling distractions that I’m referring to here. Your job. Your kids. Your family. Any service that you provide at your church or in other ways. Your social life. Your friends. Your own personal distractions like your phone or other forms of buffering. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you shouldn’t have a job and put in good effort. And I want you to spend time with your kids and your family. And I want you to serve in your church and I want you to have friends.

I’m not saying these are bad things. The buffering, I guess, could go either way. But those things are going to demand, or at least try really hard to get as much from you as they can. And if you don’t know what you’re working towards and where you’re going, you don’t know maybe when to have boundaries or say no.

For example, let’s say you want to serve in your church. Great. I love it. I like serving in my church too, and I would encourage everyone to serve in some way. But when you get a call asking, “Would you be able to come and help with this thing?” I want you to think about what are valid reasons when you might say no or you might say yes. Let’s say you have to work the next day. If they’re like, “Can you come tomorrow and help someone move?” And you realize, I’m working, you might say, “I’m sorry I can’t because I have to go to work.”

And you wouldn’t beat yourself up going, “I’m a terrible person”, I hope. You’d be like it’s a valid reason. I have a job. Now, if we got clear on four years from now you want to have your business at a certain level or you want to be able to apply for a promotion. And that requires some classes that you’re taking, some certifications you’re earning and you had class during that time or you had scheduled time to do some work on your business. You could again say, “Oh, I’m sorry. Please call me again next time because I’d love to help but tomorrow at that time I actually have a previous commitment.”

Do you see what I’m saying? If you know where you’re going and you’re working towards it actively and you don’t dismiss it as unimportant or impossible or we could do it later. And you make it as valid as anything else then you know where to set your limits when it comes to your current job, your family, your relationships, your social life. I still want you to make room for all those things. I just want you to be clear on what the end goal is.

And when I say clear, that’s a tough word because I don’t believe that you have to have crystal clarity. I do think it’s going to change and evolve. But I want you to have a general idea, is it, I want to be working at a different company, making more money. I want to have a higher position within this company or some other company, or I want to be doing my own business. I want my own business to be supporting myself and my family. Or I want to double my business or 10X my business or however you want to think about it.

So I don’t mean that you have to understand all the details, you won’t. I don’t know how to. And I do think we have to be open to finding some of it out as we go. But the more clarity you have around in general, what you’re trying to create and then you go to work creating it right now, then you gain the ability to know when to say yes, when to say no, how to set parameters in your life that will serve you.

Next thing, next problem I see that creates under-earning is not knowing the difference between commitment and belief and attachment. We hear from all the wise gurus, the problem with attachment. That we shouldn’t become too attached to, in this case, a goal. If I’m super attached to getting a promotion, hitting a milestone in my business, making money in some way, then what attachment looks like to me is this kind of tight grip on it.

It’s a kind of anticipation of once I get there, then I’m finally going to be confident, then life’s going to be easier, then I’m going to be happy. It’s believing that getting there is going to solve your problems and punishing and suffering yourself until that point, really hanging on to desperately wanting to achieve it. That’s attachment. It’s not healthy.

Commitment and belief are different. Commitment and belief are really useful. So let me talk about belief first. Belief to me sounds like, yeah, that’s totally happening. It’s as good as done. But not going so far as believing that skies are going to clear and rainbows and sunshine are going to happen and having this nervous anticipation.

So for example, if let’s say you’re trying to hit a $1 million milestone in your business, I’m totally going to make $1 million this year. Attachment might be overworking to get there, coming from a desperate hustly energy. And maybe even overspending in the name of I’ll just pay off this debt once I make the money, for some people. That’s attachment. Then we get really desperate, we really have to get there.

Belief is just, yeah, that’s going to be cool. But if it doesn’t, it’s cool. I’ll figure something else. If it takes a little longer, okay, I’ll be patient. But I’m totally going to get there. Do you notice how there’s still a little bit of doubt there? And the nurturing of, if not, it’s okay, I’m not going to beat myself up for trying, but I just know it’s going to happen. And we’re not out there spending money. We’re not in scarcity, until then. We can’t really work very well. We can’t overcome this under-earning problem from that kind of scarcity and desperate energy.

And commitment then is showing up consistently to do the things that you think will lead there, being committed to it. And commitment also includes trying as many times as necessary until you achieve it but not from a graspy, desperate place. Just because you’re committed to this thing, you want to see what’s possible, let’s go, I’m in. Unless you genuinely change your mind for a reason that you like.

The next thing that I see as an under-earning problem that I want to address is lacking in confidence. This is a challenge for all of us at times, but it may be one of the main contributors to your under-earning problem. So I want you to take a look at it. Confidence just means being there for yourself, being kind to yourself, your internal dialog, what does it sound like? Do you beat yourself up? Are you hard on yourself? Do you overly criticize yourself?

Do you have unreasonable expectations of yourself that you can’t meet, and then when you don’t meet them, you tell yourself that you’re a terrible person or you’re a loser? None of that’s going to serve you. I was listening to the Huberman Lab recently, kind of a Huberman podcast addict these days. And he had Cal Newport on, who is an author. He wrote the book Deep Work, and he has a new book out. Anyway, so he talks about how to get yourself really focused to create high quality work that you can put out in the world and achieve whatever results you want to.

They were having this conversation about social media and phones and all the distractions we have. And I think it was Huberman that said, “I want you to think about this. If you could take whoever is your main competition and you could slow them down and prevent their success, what would you do?” We don’t want to harm anyone. We don’t want to do anything unethical or illegal. But if we could just distract them or we could slow down or in some way prevent their success, what would we put in front of them or encourage in them?

One of the things that they’re talking about is we would encourage them to be on social media a lot and be checking their phone all day. And then the follow-up question they ask is, are you doing that to yourself? Isn’t that so powerful to think about? But let’s take this back to confidence.

If I had a competitor that I wanted to slow down and prevent their success, I wouldn’t actually do this, but I could encourage them to be really hard on themselves, to beat themselves up and feel terrible when they get an L. To believe they can’t do it, to be filled with self-doubt and self-loathing. So if I believe that would slow down my competitor then why do I allow myself to do that to me? Because I’m no different, it’s slowing me down too. There’s zero upside.

On the flip side, if I have somebody I really want to help see succeed I’m going to tell them, “You can’t beat yourself up. You can’t take this personally. You’ve got to be kind to yourself. You’ve got to nurture yourself. You’ve got to be confident. You’ve got to just choose, I don’t think that you have to go all the way to believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can achieve what you want.

But you’ve got to be like, “Listen, let’s try. I think you’re pretty smart. I think you’re pretty capable. I know you’re really committed here. I’ll be by your side the whole way. And as we rack up some L’s along the way, I’ve got you. I’m going to build you up and encourage you. I’m not going to tear you down.” So that’s really important.

This is where coaching for me has been life changing. Having a coach to help me examine my brain and to learn how to be kind to myself is one tool. So either join us in The Lab or find a good coach because I don’t know, I think coaching is really powerful and confidence just goes so far.

Last thing, the last under-earning problem that I see that we want to address. Again, I can relate to all of these, but this one I remember, especially when I first started my business was we have this kind of thing we do where we’re waiting for someone to discover or invite us. I still actually am tempted to do this sometimes.

I’m like, “Maybe if I’m just good enough, maybe if I’m brilliant enough, maybe if I make some YouTube videos that are really powerful or if I have a really good podcast that it could go viral. And then I’m just going to get into the channel of success and people are going to be calling me, asking me if they can work with me, if they can hire me, if they can pay me, if they can put me on TV, if they can lift me up and celebrate me. If I’m just good enough, someone will discover me and then I’ll achieve success.”

And I’m talking about this in regards to business, but this can be in your job too. I’m doing such a good job, why has my boss not offered me a raise or promoted me? Guess what? Nobody’s coming along very often, it happens on occasion, but mostly not, to discover you or invite you or lift you up. I know this is bad news, but it’s also kind of good news because it means we can stop waiting for that.

We can stop trying to be more excellent, more amazing. Don’t do that. That’s the long way. That doesn’t work for most of us. And you don’t have to be A plus at everything you do. Go out there and make it happen. You have to become empowered. You have to decide, I’m going to go after what I want. I’m going to make the impact I want to in the world. I’m going to provide the service and value I want to in some way. And I’m going to make the money along the way. And I’m not waiting for anyone to come make that happen for me.

I am saying this because I care about you and I want to see you succeed. You have to go out there and rack up W’s and L’s. It works a lot better if you do. Again, for those of you in The Lab, make sure you sign up for coaching. I love coaching on this topic. I love coaching for achieving goals. Make sure you get the support and help that you want in some form or another if you have an under-earning problem. Thanks for joining me today. I’ll see you next week on another episode, bye bye.

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We can all agree that there are many things in our world that are subjective or up for interpretation. But there are certain things like numbers and data that are just true, right? The numbers don’t lie… or do they? We can’t argue with numbers… or can we?

We think of numbers as black-and-white, concrete facts. In my own life, I’ve noticed how my brain loves to fixate on the numbers I track because I can use them to validate feeling good or bad. Whether it’s your budget, health goals, revenue, or calories, we all do some version of tracking in our lives, but the truth is those numbers aren’t as factual as your brain wants to make them.

Join me this week to hear how we use numbers to craft stories that are ultimately subjective. I’m showing you how different stories can be produced from the same set of data, what happens when your belief hinges on numbers, and how something as black and white as data has the ability to either empower you or hold you back.

If you want to take what you’re learning on the podcast and take it to the next level, implementing these lessons in your life, you need to join The Lab! It encompasses all the best parts of Be Bold while creating an environment that better serves the audience of this podcast. Click here for more details.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The stories I’ve observed myself telling about the numbers I track in my life. * How we use numbers to tell stories. * Why you must be intentional about the stories you tell about numbers. * What happens when your belief in something hinges on numbers. * How data can either empower you or hold you back.

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I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
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Welcome to episode 455, The Stories We Tell About the Numbers. Okay, we can all agree that there are a lot of things that are subjective, relative or up for interpretation. This is where your mindset and reframing work can make a big difference. But there are some things that are just true, just facts like numbers. The numbers don’t lie or do they? You can’t argue with the numbers or can you?

Today we’re diving into how we can use even something as black and white as numbers and data to either empower us or hold us back. Beginning with my own personal example of how I caught myself using what could be useful data against myself just this week. Let’s dive in.

Welcome to better than happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Hello, everybody. We’re going to talk about numbers today. And I am not very good at math. And guess what? You don’t have to be in order to get a lot out of what I’m going to teach you today. There are certain areas in our lives where all of us are doing some version of tracking. Maybe it’s with your budget. Maybe you like to keep an eye on your bank account. Maybe you’re doing it with regards to your health goals.

Sometimes people like to track their food, track what they’re eating, calories, macros, micronutrients, things like that. I’m doing it in that area as well as with my glucose numbers, which I’m going to talk to you more about in just a minute. Maybe you are an entrepreneur or you work in a business in some function where you are tracking numbers, you might be tracking, again revenue, profits and losses in business expenses, things like that. Or you might be tracking conversion numbers if you’re in the field of marketing in some way.

Those are the main areas of my life that I have experience with tracking numbers. You might have others. What I’m going to teach you today I hope you can apply to any situation in your life. I want to begin by telling you a little story about what I observed in myself this week that prompted me to want to do this episode. It was something I observed in me and also several different coaching clients that either I worked with or I listened to other coaches working with that really sort of formed this idea in my head, which is often where my ideas come from.

So I am new to tracking my glucose numbers. I am trying to reverse my pre-diabetes insulin resistance and maintain healthy glucose numbers for my health. And so I was listening to the Huberman Lab podcast. And he recommended Levels, which is an app and a program that you can sign up for, where you purchase a continuous glucose monitor. And then you get all this data about where your glucose level is. At any given time I can pull up this handy little app on my phone.

And I’m just trying to open it as I talk to you and tell you that right now my glucose level is at 95, which is great. At any rate I can see all kinds of interesting information. I can see after I eat foods, what happens to my glucose levels. I can see how long it takes it to come back down after it goes up if I eat something that makes it go up, which some foods will. I can see how exercise affects it, interestingly enough. I lifted some pretty heavy weights this morning and I had a pretty big glucose spike when I did that, which they say is normal. So that’s interesting to know.

Certain foods that I thought would really give me a spike, don’t as much, but others that I wouldn’t have expected, do, and that’s just good to know. You can see what’s happening when you’re sleeping. Anyway, you get the idea. There’s also in the Levels app, information about how steady your glucose is, how level is your glucose. The goal is to not have big spikes and drops, but to be as level as possible. And it gives you a score every day.

So this is the first thing I noticed is, the Levels app gives you a score that is based on a scale of 100, so it’s basically just like being a student in school, 100%, they don’t say percentages, it’s just numbers. But 100 would be the best score you could get, and so on down, 90, 80, 70, 60 etc. In my mind, those numbers when we’re talking about a score are associated with a grade like A, B, C, D or F. And what I discovered is that I have never once gotten an A in the Levels app.

It’s a really good day for me if I get a C, somewhere in the 70s. I’ve gotten a B in the 80s, I think twice in the 30 days only that I’ve been using this app. And one day was because, sorry if this is TMI, but I had a colonoscopy the next day. And so I really couldn’t eat, other than I think I had some chicken broth or something and that’s what took me out of the A range into the B range. Anyway, mostly I score in the low 70s or 60s. So that’s the first opportunity I notice to have some drama.

So the whole point of today’s episode is, I want you to know that even when we have numbers to back up our drama, we still have the capacity and sometimes a tendency to create a bunch of drama. So the first place my brain went to was, there’s something wrong with this app because my glucose isn’t that ‘high’. I’m doing all kinds of Google research. What is a healthy glucose spike for a non-diabetic person after they eat lunch or whatever, after they eat a meal?

And then I’m looking it up and according to most of the data that I find online, it gives me a range and I’m looking at my glucose and it’s within that range. So I’m like, “Why am I getting docked points if my glucose is just going up to what would be a healthy amount after eating food? Why Levels app, are you docking me points and giving me a D today when I’m clearly an A student here?”

So I noticed, I still really don’t pay very close attention to that score, even though in the Levels app, they’re very kind about trying to explain things. And they explain, don’t get overly fixated on the score. The goal is to see improvement. Don’t aim for perfection. They say all the right things. But I still notice I want to get dramatic about it, especially because how can you argue with these numbers? It gave me a 66 the other day. That’s a D, it’s almost failing.

So what I’m trying to do is just notice. Well, first of all, who says we’re supposed to get A’s? Maybe I just made that up. This is the way I play with it in my mind if I want to be a little bit less dramatic about numbers. There’s all kinds of stories I can tell here. I can tell the story of I’m failing or I’m getting mostly C’s and D’s, and that’s not good. Or I can make them a little bit more neutral these numbers, they could just be a starting point. I can tell the story that you’re not supposed to get A’s and you’re not supposed to get in the 90s.

I can tell the story that these aren’t letter grades. I made that part up where I’ve been giving them letter grades. There’s nowhere in the Levels app where they say then this is just like getting graded in school. I made that part up. So notice how I’m just kind of pulling apart the story a little bit. And even if I want to go to, my glucose is not very level, it’s not very healthy, then I can decide what I make that mean. And that’s really where I’ve landed with it is, okay, maybe it’s not all that healthy.

I am going to go back to my doctor soon and continue to work with the doctor on my health goals, but so what? It’s okay. I’m glad to know that. I’m glad I’m focusing on this. I’m not going to be mad at me. I’m not going to guilt me and shame me and beat myself up and feel discouraged and think that this is hopeless. We are where we are and we can improve. And let’s just take it one day at a time.

So notice, even with numbers, we make up so many stories. I just want you to make up the stories intentionally. I don’t want you to tell yourself something that you don’t believe or something that’s not true. We’re in the middle of the Make Peace With Food Challenge right now. And we had a really good question come up today that said, “Well, how can you say food is not good and bad? I am trained as a nutritionist or a scientist and I have all this data.”

And I’m like, “Okay, but what story are you telling with the data?” And if it serves you, if it’s useful to label certain foods good and certain foods bad then I’m in. And we can validate that story with the numbers and the science. I just find that for me that creates a lot of drama and either resistance or giving in and deprivation and just a lot of emotions around food. It makes food really powerful and so I choose not to label it that way.

It actually helps me eat more of the kinds of foods that the doctors and nutritionists say will serve my body and less of the ones that don’t, by not labeling it good and bad. That’s just me. That’s a lot of people but that may not be you. So keep in mind that numbers, we use numbers to tell stories. And those of you who are in fields that are pretty numbers driven like science and statistics and accounting and things like that, know that you can craft lots of different stories with the same sets of numbers. This is important to understand.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Nail your Niche. If you are a coach or teacher who has the beginnings of a business or intends to soon, you are likely in the thick of niche drama. How do I know? I’ve worked with hundreds of coaches and they all, myself included, seem to go through it. But there is one difference between the ones who spin for years struggling to gain traction and the ones who accelerate, gain momentum and then succeed. It’s their ability to get out of niche drama and nail their niche instead.

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So another thing, I have to just finish out my own personal story then I want to dive into some examples and give you some tools. So there’s the Levels app that gives me my grade every day. But then there’s the app that comes with the CGM, the Continuous Glucose Monitor I’m using. And it just gives you a real time, I don’t know how often it updates, maybe every couple minutes or so, update of where your glucose is at any given time. I can open up this app and just be like, “Where is my glucose right now?” And it says that right now it’s at 95. Okay, that’s great.

This has become something that I am noticing is really empowering information if I use it correctly. It’s actually awesome to see. It’s fascinating to see that certain foods that I would have thought would really spike my glucose, don’t, and others that I wouldn’t have suspected, really do. And it’s fascinating to see how much just going for a walk impacts it. And how sometimes when I’m sleeping, it goes really low and sometimes it stays medium to high when I’m sleeping.

And I’m trying to pay attention to what this has to do with my menstrual cycle and my hormones and things like that. And anyway, I’m paying attention to how I feel in my body. Is there a difference between low blood sugar and hunger? And for me there is, often they overlap, but not always. So anyway, there’s just so much really useful, empowering data to be had here. But if I’m not careful I can be overly fixated on it. I can become sort of obsessed.

I can tend to want to go to perfectionism or all or nothing, or I can get frustrated with it. For the last four days, this monitor, the CGM has been saying that my glucose is just relatively higher than it normally is throughout the day and throughout the night, even my fasting glucose. And I finally took the sensor off and put a new sensor on and now everything’s checking out again. So one version of the story could be, oh, my gosh, my glucose is really high and another version is, something might be wrong with the sensor. The data may not even be accurate.

And I do think that’s the case. As soon as I switched it out, everything went back to normal. And the company’s very transparent about this is all new technology, please don’t think that this is perfect and things like that. So interesting, I’m just noticing how my brain wants to sometimes become fixated on numbers because they feel so concrete and they feel like I can use them to validate feeling good or feeling bad. And sometimes there is a use for that, but it’s all still so subjective in the end.

So outside of having a glucose monitor that I think was a little faulty, I’ve had other periods of, this doesn’t make sense. Why would it be high here? Why would it be low there? And I have other coaches and experts that I work with and people I talk with, and I do research and I listen to podcasts and I talk to people who are more knowledgeable about this than me because I want to learn it all. And it’s interesting how you get different perspectives from different people.

And even if we’re not disagreeing, sometimes I’m just having conversations with coaches and friends, and we’re like maybe this or maybe that. And I notice we can come up with seven or eight different possible believable, realistic stories to tell. And that’s just good to know, because it means these numbers aren’t as factual as my brain wants to make them or they’re not telling me something true. They’re giving me data that then I turn into a story.

So I could tell the story, hey, this isn’t working. My glucose isn’t getting better. My glucose is high. Or I had an expert tell me, “You know what? If you have a lot of sugar stored in your liver, then as you change your eating habits”, and I’m doing some intermittent fasting and things, then your liver is trying to get rid of all that sugar. Your body’s trying to get rid of the excess sugar that you’ve stored over the years. And so it makes sense that your glucose levels would be higher than they maybe should be during a fasting state, throughout the day etc., because your body is pushing out all that sugar.

So it might be that I’m right on track and things are getting better when my glucose is high and it might not be. It might be that I’ve still got a long ways to go. Different stories with the same data. Now, let’s take this outside of me. Let’s stop talking about me and let’s take this to some other examples that might be useful for you. Again, those of you who are entrepreneurs, you’ve got to really watch your brain around this. First of all, it’s great to track numbers in your business.

It’s great to be aware of what’s going on in your business, but to a certain point and then you either need to manage your mind around it or stop looking at it. If you’re looking at the numbers compulsively, obsessively, because you’re trying to use numbers to give you permission to believe in something, that might not be your best plan. Sometimes the numbers are going to look how you want them and sometimes they’re not. And if your belief is hanging on that, then your belief is going to be yoyoing up and down. That’s not going to serve you or your business.

So what is an appropriate amount of time that I want to be checking these numbers, how frequently? I’m not saying don’t look at them, but let’s not obsess about them because if so, that means we have some thought work to do. And when you do look at them, what are you going to make it mean? Are you going to tell me the story, this isn’t working?

This is what entrepreneurs bring to me a lot, “My ads aren’t working.” And I’m like, “What does that mean?” “Well, they’re not converting.” They think they’re just telling me facts. They’re telling me data. I’m like, “I don’t know what that means. What are we trying to convert to?” And then they’ll say something like, “Well, I haven’t made any money off of them or I haven’t gotten any paying clients.”

I’m like, “Okay, well, how much money have you put in and does this mean the ads aren’t working or does it mean I don’t have my ads set up right? Does it mean your tracking isn’t set up right? Does it mean that your offer isn’t right? Does it mean that you haven’t gotten in front of the right audience yet? Does it mean maybe that there hasn’t been enough time go by for me to nurture the leads that are coming in and turn them into clients? Or is it that maybe the ads are working great actually, they’re bringing in plenty of possible new clients. I just haven’t been able to convert any of them to sales. In which case it has nothing to do with the ads. It has to do with what you do afterwards.”

Do you see what I’m saying? So, if you don’t run ads or you’re not a coach, that might sound a little foreign to you. But I think you get the idea that in some area of your life this might be relevant. It’s not working. And then they’re like, “Here’s the numbers.” That still doesn’t tell me much. What are your objectives?

And I’ll just go back to health for just a minute too. I just coached someone this morning in Make Peace with Food who said, “Well, I’m trying to lose weight. I want to lose these 10 pounds and I’m just not losing the weight.” Now, she could probably give me data like I weighed this amount on this day and I still weigh that same amount this morning. But even that is so subjective, our weight goes up and down all throughout the day, even. But certainly from day-to-day and week-to-week our weight fluctuates up and down no matter what, whether we’re eating healthy or not. Just by nature of how bodies operate.

So as we dove in, we realized some days the scale has been down and other days it’s been up. And she’s been doing this for 30 days. “So I’m not losing weight or it’s not working is the way she said it.” And I was like, “Well, what does working mean, first of all? Because in my mind there’s a lot more to it than just the scale going down. There’s your relationship with yourself, there’s your satiety. There’s whether or not your habits are healthy.” And there’s even a whole plethora of data that somebody who is a doctor or a scientist would know to look at that we aren’t even looking at here.

Our other, maybe, metrics improving that we want to see improve and is eventually the weight going to catch up with it? It could be that you’re right on track. It could be that it is working, we just haven’t seen it on the scale, yet. Do you see what I’m saying? So just be careful about it’s not working. How about the scale hasn’t gone down, that would be more factual, or I’ve generated x number of dollars in my business and I’ve spent x number of dollars on ads. Do you see what I’m saying?

If we’re going to get factual here, let’s get facty because those numbers you can use to tell any story that you want. Anyone who’s a statistician will tell us this. Your money is the same, your personal money. We talk a little bit about business and things, but I was listening to a coaching call. I wasn’t the coach, but I was listening to it and the client said, “My financial situation depends on the interest rate. And interest rates are still really high. They haven’t come down.”

Now, it feels like we’re just giving a fact because we’re talking about interest rates. And we could go pull the data on what the interest rate is wherever she lives and whatever she’s, if we’re talking about mortgages or what have you. But my financial situation depends on this. I was like, “That’s a thought I don’t want to think ever.” When it came right down to it, she had some real estate investments that were being affected due to a variable interest rate loan.

But even so, I still would not want to think the thought, my financial situation depends on the interest rate because it’s just not true. Your financial situation depends on you. Now, the interest rate is one factor you might consider as you make decisions. But you get to decide what your financial situation is. So you might decide the interest rate is too high, I’m going to sell this property or I’m not going to take out a loan right now or I’m not going to buy because of the interest rate.

But my financial situation depends on me. It doesn’t depend on this really gigantic variable that I have no control over called the interest rate. I know there are people who have been in real estate a long time who are like, “This is not a high interest rate. We’ve seen much higher than this.” And then everyone will give us predictions. It’s going to go up, it’s going to go down, here’s what the market’s going to do. Again, I like numbers. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t gather data.

I’m saying be careful about what stories you’re going to tell with that data. And most people that are going to give you data are going to offer you a story. And maybe it’s a story that serves you that you like, great, but if it’s not, just be cautious and know that you have a dozen other options as well. And then ask yourself, what story that I believe, I’m not talking about making up stuff that you don’t believe. What story that I believe am I going to tell about this data?

I’ll tell you. For me, and I have been listening to a lot more just scientists and doctors lately as I am studying more about my own body and nutrition in general and how people’s bodies work and glucose and all of this. So I’ve been listening, like I said, I love Huberman Lab, I listen to him a lot, Andrew Huberman. I have listened to Dr. Mark Hyman a lot the last couple of weeks. And both of these people bring on guests and they’re all academics and they’re all scientists or doctors.

And so they use a lot of terminology, quite frankly, that I don’t even understand, but they also are constantly referring to studies, which is a great thing. Except I’ve never once, that I can recall, heard them say, “In this study this was true 100% of the time.” It’s usually, well, in 60% of the people in this study, this happened. And they’re like, “Whoa, that’s huge, 60%, that’s huge. There’s definitely a correlation here or causation.” They use these terms.

And in my mind, I’m like, but that means 40% that didn’t have that effect. And I’m not saying it’s not still valid and useful information to understand, it definitely is. But in my mind I’m like, but I could be one of the 40%, there’s actually a high chance. So this may be true for me what they’re saying, or it may not, it may not. That’s just important to keep in mind, because it’s useful to have data like this, it gives us a starting point.

It gives us some guesses to take about what might be going on in our bodies or in our businesses or in the world, or make again, investments or choices but it’s not the end all. Even the people who study this data wouldn’t say it’s the end all, be all. They’re using data to make guesses. That is the scientific method. We make guesses. We call them hypotheses. So keep that in mind. And the best scientists out there know that science is an ongoing practice. It’s not, now we understand this and we’re done.

It’s, this is what we believe to be true as of today and we’ll continue to study this topic and we may come out later and say that something different is true. Science by definition and by nature is open to being wrong even though we have data and numbers to back it up. This is what we believe to be true today, but we may discover something else tomorrow. That is the case with numbers. So be careful about the story you tell with the numbers, choose it intentionally my friend.

And if you want help with this, of course bring it to me in The Lab. I’d love to help you think through the story you want to tell with your numbers. Thanks for joining me today. I’ll see you next time.

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The post 455. The Stories We Tell About the Numbers appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We all know that a good marriage requires work. But have you ever wondered what that work actually looks like, and how to do it effectively? Well today, I have an expert on the show: Natalie Clay. She’s been coaching couples for the past eight years and she knows exactly what it takes to build a happy, thriving marriage.

Natalie Clay is a highly sought-after marriage coach who works with couples both together and as individuals. She’s here to help us better understand what the work of creating an amazing marriage really entails, and most importantly, how to start doing it.

Tune in this week to discover how to make your marriage easier. Natalie is sharing why she believes traditional marriage counseling or therapy isn’t generally the best way to approach the problems in your marriage, what to do if your spouse isn’t open to getting help, and you’ll learn how to disagree with your spouse, without fighting.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The most common reasons marriages run into problems. * How to start the work of making your marriage easier. * What we can learn about ourselves by looking at our relationships. * How traditional counseling or therapy falls short for many married couples. * What to do when your spouse is resistant to the idea of getting help. * Why your spouse not being open to getting help doesn’t have to be a problem. * How to hold disagreements with your spouse, without resorting to fighting.

Mentioned on the Show:

I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
I’ve written a book to introduce thought work in a way children will understand called Carl and Sophia and Your Amazing Brain, illustrated by my talented daughter Macy!
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Join Natalie for a free class: How to Disagree Without Conflict

Welcome to episode 454. How to Make Your Marriage Easier with Natalie Clay.

We all know a good marriage requires work, but have you ever wondered what that work actually is, or how to do it? I have. Today I’ve got an expert who also happens to be my sister, Natalie Clay, who’s been coaching couples for the past eight years. She’s a highly sought after marriage coach who works with couples together and as individuals. And today she’s here to help us better understand what the work is and how to do it.

You’ll learn why Natalie believes traditional counseling or therapy is usually not the best way to approach the problems in your marriage. What to do if your spouse isn’t open to getting help, and why she says this makes perfect sense and how to disagree without fighting. Let’s do this.

Welcome to better than happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Jody: What’s up, Nats?

Natalie: Hello Jody Moore.

Jody: You always call me Jody Moore. It’s so formal.

Natalie: I know that because people say, “You’re Jody Moore’s, sister?” I’m like, “Yes, yes I am.”

Jody: Well, they say the same to me. They say, “I love having Natalie Clay back in The Lab.”

Natalie: I know, they say, “Oh, the hot sister Natalie Clay.”

Jody: The hot sister.

Natalie: That’s right.

Jody: I want to do a class in The Lab called hot girl summer. Do you think that’ll be offensive to people?

Natalie: Maybe just to me.

Jody: I probably won’t call it that, but I don’t know. Podcast listeners, let us know. What I want it to be about is style. It could be decluttering your closet, or it could be updating your wardrobe or I don’t know, I just think I’m having fun with clothes. Anyway, that’s off topic.

We have Natalie Clay here today on the podcast, so it’s a very special day. Natalie is my sister. I’ll let you introduce yourself, but I always have to talk first as you know. Natalie was coaching back in the day when we first started Be Bold. And then she left and grew her own business. And she’s still doing her own business, but she also is back, doing a little bit of coaching in The Lab, which we’re all so thrilled about. Natalie, tell us more about what you do as a coach and who you are.

Natalie: I am Natalie Clay and I coach couples primarily. I do have some clients who are one-on-one clients that I’ve been coaching for years and sometimes I take new ones. I like to mix it up. So not everybody is married, but primarily in my business I’m working with people on their relationships, whether they’re married or not. And that is a topic I love to coach on and I’ve coached on for years and I am still so obsessed with it. I just think it’s so fascinating.

Jody: And you do lots of reading, I mean, we both do, but you do more than me, reading psychology books, human behavior, both as they directly relate to relationships and just people in general. And this is a topic that from day one, when you became a coach, you were like, “I want to help people with their marriages.” What is it about it that you find so fascinating?

Natalie: Well, I think that we learn so much about ourselves through our relationships. And so the thing I like about it, I was thinking about this recently when I was working with a couple in one of our sessions, that it just speeds up our progress so much faster. Because things just become clearer when I’m working with a couple and I can see their dynamic back and forth, we can’t hide behind as much. It’s kind of hard to explain it until you see it.

But it brings things up in us that we’re able to work around in other ways when we’re not in a relationship. So I guess the best way to describe it is, when we’re single or when we’re not in a relationship, there’s certain, maybe some things about our personality or some weaknesses that we might have that we can just kind of ignore for a while. But in a relationship, we tend to say, you know, especially in marriage, “There’s going to be some struggle or you’re going to grow.” Usually both.

And I think it just brings things up in us that we were able to maybe neglect before. So when you’re with a couple, just because we tend to choose someone who’s very different from us and it hits on our deepest insecurities, our sense of safety, our sense of security, our sense of identity and worth. It brings up all of those things which I think can be really beneficial. Also very painful if we’re dealing with it in a productive way, but I think it can be so helpful to help us overcome a lot of those things so much faster.

Jody: That’s interesting. I would agree with that. I think there’s a handful of things. I think marriage is like that, even being a parent is like that at times.

Natalie: For sure.

Jody: I like the way you said, you’re either going to really struggle at times or you’re going to grow through some of those challenges, starting a business, trying to lose weight or work on your health in some way. Those things tend to bring up, like you said, these areas that are really, really useful to then work on. So can you talk a little bit about coaching versus therapy? And I don’t mean that you have to necessarily flesh out, if you want to speak to the differences you can.

But here’s what I’m curious about, and I know traditional therapy or counseling can be really useful for some couples. And so we’re not trying to bad mouth it at all. But what do you find in terms of the couples that come to you who have not seen success in traditional counseling or therapy and in what way is coaching different?

Natalie: So I think there’s a time and a place for both. And I think I used to be a lot more careful about this, which is therapy is fantastic and this is just another, which it is. But there is a time and a place for it and I think I’m becoming a little more comfortable saying that personally. And then of course this is my business and I’m not just saying this to sell my business.

Coaching makes a lot more sense for your marriage, in my opinion, because if you think about why we go to therapy. In my opinion, I think the one of the best things we can achieve in therapy is to find greater acceptance that you are who you are and you have the habits and the shortcomings or whatever we want to call it for justifiable reasons.

And especially with CBT, I’m a fan of CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, they can make some connections to your childhood that really help you see, I don’t need to be beating myself up over this. Because this thing happened in my childhood so of course I’m showing up in a protective way in this regard. So I think it’s so helpful to help you feel validated. Also, there’s times when you need a diagnosis or you might need some interventions or some support that coaches obviously are not trained in, things like EMDR, things like this.

There’s just some different treatments that might be appropriate to help you deal with some of the things that you’ve experienced in your life. However, that said, when I’m working with couples, people aren’t usually coming to me in need of a first time diagnosis for something. I’m not trained for that, but they don’t need that. Maybe people have been diagnosed with a personality disorder or all sorts of different things, but that’s not why they’re struggling with their relationship.

So I think coaching is really helpful for relationships specifically because the problems don’t lie in our past. It’s what’s going on now, how we’re looking at things now and what we’re trying to achieve in the future. And that is really what coaching is about.

Jody: You know what? That’s so interesting. I never have thought about it that way before. But it’s making me think about what we just said of how I think starting your own business, for example, is another way to bring up all of your own drama and scarcity and self-esteem and whatever. And either you’re going to suffer and fail, or you’re going to work through it and grow. And we wouldn’t go to therapy because we’re starting a business because nothing’s wrong. We’re just in a new circumstance that’s bringing up stuff.

So I feel like what you’re saying, I don’t know. That really resonates for me and I am probably biased as a coach. But I do see what you’re saying that there’s nothing wrong necessarily. You’re just in a new situation that’s bringing up stuff. That’s what coaching is really, really good at handling.

Natalie: Absolutely. And I think if you’re interested in therapy, I think it’s great, I think for you as an individual, just again, I’m talking to a select group of the population. Because people who haven’t been to therapy for a lot of years come to me. And so I’m hearing a lot of the negative sides of it. And just like you said, I think it can absolutely, couples therapy can be very impactful for some people, no doubt. But if you find that you’re struggling with it…

Jody: I’m sorry to interrupt you. What are some of the shortcomings people are, and again, we’re not trying to bad mouth therapy, we’re just trying to help people find different tools. What are some of the shortcomings and complaints that people have of it?

Natalie: This is often what I hear that it really helped for a little while, but then we kept going and we’re like, “Okay, but at what point do we just stop going and it doesn’t feel like it’s really helping anymore? And it just kind of petered out, the help.” Or the other thing they’ll say is that it helped for a little while but then they’re still having the same exact struggles. So that’s why I think therapy is much more effective for an individual because again, if there’s things that you need to feel validated for, if you need to be justified, if you need specific help, therapy is excellent at that and helping you tie back to your childhood and things like that.

But I think if you decide to go to couples counseling, just be careful because what I find doesn’t work, I sometimes hear things like, we’re going to understand how maybe you’re more sensitive in this regard, maybe. And then we try to address it through, in therapy it tends to be addressed more through action. What I hear from people, which is, so this person is really sensitive about being left out or they have had this thing in their childhood and now they’re sensitive. Okay, we’ve established that.

Then when you come home from work, just make sure that you check in with them in this way or you use these words, which again can be very helpful in a moment because that might happen. But unfortunately from my perspective, I think that’s assuming the worst. It’s assuming that they don’t care about you and they need to show it in a way so that you can believe that. So while that works in the moment, that tends to sometimes, I think, exacerbate problems.

Because then when it stops, not only now are they not doing it, and you’re no longer able to rely on them to make you feel good. But now you have the resentment because an outside person has told them that they should, and they’re not doing it. So we have to watch out for that. So if you are in couples therapy, again, it can be great. But if they’re telling you any action items to do, make sure you, even something like a weekly date night, that works for some people. It doesn’t work for others.

Anything action oriented, try it and see if it works for you, but don’t take it as this is the only way or this is the way for me to feel better in our relationship.

Jody: Or this is the right thing to do because an outside authority told us.

Natalia: Exactly. And they’re not doing it, that’s why I’m not happy because someone told them they should or [crosstalk]. Because that doesn’t only set them up, that sets you up to also wonder where am I falling short? What should I be doing differently?

Jody: Eventually, we’re both pretending to try to keep the other person happy. So, Natalie, I’m sure you have some couples come to you who are questioning whether or not they’re going to stay married. And we’ll speak to that in just a minute. But first can you talk to the ones that come saying, “We want to stay together. We’re not trying to separate or that’s not the plan as of now anyway.” But there are certain subjects that maybe like you said, maybe they temporarily get resolved with some behavioral guidance, but overall they don’t seem to. That seems to be possibly a common challenge, right?

Natalie: Well, yeah. So I think a lot of people they’re not necessarily looking to decide, should I get divorced or not? A lot of people I talk to are like, “No, it’s no question, we want to stay married. But we also know that things could be so much better than they are.” And so they’re missing that next level connection, that next level friendship.

So that seems to be really common with people, no, but I believe that they’re a good person and I think I’m a pretty good person. And I know that we have this mutual respect for each other on our better days. So why is it that we’re still not able to get to that place where we feel as comfortable with each other as we did at the beginning or where we do really just feel like best friends? That’s a challenge for people.

Jody: How do you address that?

Natalie: Well, a lot of it comes down to our expectations on this relationship. But not only that, it’s again, I think this is where it brings up our issues that we have been able to skirt around in other aspects of our life. But the reality is, if you are insecure as a single person, which we all are, then you’re going to be insecure after you’re married. And what I find is interesting is we go through that period when we’re first dating where it’s really a whole brain chemistry connection that we have. But really that’s just about our brain wanting to continue the species.

So there’s a lot of things that are going on during that time that are not actual reality. But we have this idea that, isn’t that what love should feel like where we just feel so good around each other? We feel like we’re high basically during that time period. And everything is just easy and it just feels so good to do things for each other. And then what happened? Where I think if we look at it like, yeah, that time period is so fun, but there’s a good reason why we don’t stay in that. Our brain is not meant to stay in that natural state.

It’s the same reason why, yeah, probably it feels really great to do cocaine, but there’s reasons why maybe you don’t want to do cocaine in your life. It’s dealing with how do we then look at this relationship in a different way. Instead of it needing to take away instantly all of our fears and insecurities and make us feel instantly safe. That would be nice, but if you think, that doesn’t require much of us. So there’s not a lot of depth behind that.

Where I think marriage offers us this opportunity to really learn and grow in ways that can help us have a much deeper interaction with each other and a deeper connection that you can’t just replicate by going out and meeting somebody one night.

Jody: So what you’re saying is that it’s natural to feel that high in the beginning and then for it to change and become more boring and more challenging in many ways? What about, let’s say this subject that we keep going back to is money, for example. Maybe we just don’t see eye to eye, one of us is more of a spender, one of us is more a saver or the things that we think we should be spending money on we disagree about. I mean, is that the kind of thing you’re talking about when it’s, we don’t want to separate, but we just can’t figure out this issue?

Natalie: Yes. And so that’s why I think human psychology is so fascinating, why I just love to study our fear response and all this. Because I think we have to be able to separate that out. So there’s if we have a disagreement around money, for example, then there’s our way of thinking about it. But then it hits on something so much deeper. And that’s why simply talking about, but if we just set up a budget and we meet every week to talk it through. That’s going to solve all our problems.

The reason it doesn’t is because so often it’s hitting on something on a deeper level that deals with our identity, mostly our identity, but our confidence. And so if we’re not addressing it at that level, then anything that we’re doing on the surface level. It’s not going to fix it long term. It’ll find other ways to come out. But again, I think that’s an invitation to us, instead of looking at it like, we’re just not as good in this area. I think that’s a really great invitation to see, wow, this is really butting up against something in my identity or my confidence. What’s that about?

Let’s explore that and let’s find ways to strengthen that and become more resilient as a human. And that’s such a better, I think, more rewarding way to approach it, rather than how do we just make it so this goes away and that part of us is never triggered. We’re missing out on that. And it also doesn’t work and leads to resentment and more disconnection down the road.

Jody: So are you talking about being able to work on things like scarcity or worthiness? Sometimes we have worthiness stuff around money, shame, guilt, and that you’re saying then you work on those things personally and it impacts your marriage. Rather than just let’s make sure and stick to a budget, which you could have a budget too, but we want to address those deeper issues. Is that what you’re saying?

Natalie: Yeah. So let me give you a more specific example. So if someone says, “My partner spends money this way, and I would rather spend it this way, on something basic.” And so when we look at why that’s really a problem, the worth thing is huge, our identity, our sense of am I lovable. And again, that goes back to fear brain stuff, which is we need to know that as a person who consumes oxygen in the world and resources, there’s something in us that feels like I need to feel it’s okay for me to stand up for myself or to keep myself alive.

There has to be a reason for me to feel justified in consuming resources in the world. And we also want other people to acknowledge that in us as well, because we’ll feel safer if people want to defend us. It goes back to our primal needs there. But in an example like that, it challenges our identity because for so much of our life, if I’m someone who feels like I’m really good with money and I’m good at saving money and I’m good at planning my money.

Then oftentimes if I end up with someone who’s more, maybe they’re just by nature, they’re more spontaneous. That’s also going to translate to how they spend money. And if they spend in a different way, that might feel like a challenge to my identity because it’s basically saying, but if I’m good because of this then they’re doing it a different way, that challenges. But again, this is where I think the growth comes up, which is just such a great opportunity to realize, no, you’re not a good person because of how you’ve spent money.

And they’re not a bad person because of how they spend money. We don’t have to call that irresponsible. We don’t have to call you tight with money. This is a chance for us to just look at, we spend differently and now why is that a problem? But when we really recognize why that really is causing us some angst deep down, that’s where the real growth happens.

Jody: There’s so much psychology behind all of these topics.

Natalie: It’s so fun. I love it.

Jody: What other things do people bring to you? I just picked money out of the blue. I don’t know if you even get that commonly. What kinds of challenges are people dealing with these days?

Natalie: Yeah. So it’s interesting you say that because I think if you ask people what are the most common reasons for divorce, everyone says sex and money, which sure, those absolutely come up. But that’s not the most common thing I’m hearing from people. People want more connection and they want to be able to communicate better. That’s the two things I hear most. And sure, it can relate to those different things. But it really comes down to, again, as we get older, I think we just naturally struggle with our sense of self.

Carl Jung talks a lot about this in the second half of life. And so you’re going to go through that whether you’re single or married. But when we’re married and we’re going through what might feel like a midlife crisis or you’re just getting older and trying to establish your identity at this age, as you’re aging and you’re no longer able to rely on, I’m the hot sister. Maybe I don’t feel as hot anymore. Or maybe you were really athletic. And these things are challenging you.

Again that’s going to come up in ways of, it feels like we’re disconnected because I’m around this person and I’m not feeling that sense of, I don’t feel amazing about myself like I did when I was younger. So it’s easy to disconnect and that’s a really natural thing that happens because what happens is when we feel challenged on something, going back to the money issue for example. If my thought is wow, they spend more than me and now they’re saying they should be able to spend more, am I cheap? Have I been viewing it wrong?

And if that feels like a challenge to your identity then we have a couple of options. Either that feels a little bit like shame, maybe it feels like a challenge, or we can go to the place of no, maybe they’re irresponsible. So it’s really natural for us to project that outside of us because that allows us to maintain this identity and maintain this idea of, no, this is why I’m good and I need to keep that. But when we choose someone who’s very different from us, that actually compels us to need to be disconnected in order to maintain our identities. That’s why it’s problematic.

Jody: I know we can’t solve it on this podcast, but can you give any examples of what it looks like as we start making progress in the right direction?

Natalie: Yeah. So it’s not as complicated as it might sound, it really isn’t. I think it’s really fun, actually. But it comes down to choosing vulnerability over certainty. So in a couple, the way that looks is, alright, I like to remind people, remember, we’re not dealing on the level of eternal truth here. I’m not saying that eternal truth doesn’t exist in this situation, but neither of us really know what it is in terms of how should we spend our money because people have pretty firm ideas on that.

But I always like to remind people, do all of you have a pair of shoes and are you eating? Yes, okay, everything else is kind of extra. So let’s not argue over this. It’s based on a lot of personal history and opinion and all those other things. So when we can get to a point of realizing, this can feel right for you and something else can feel right for them, and that’s okay. Now again, that still might be challenging where your sense of identity comes from. But again, if we use that as an opportunity for growth, then it’s alright, maybe we have a different opinion on this and that’s okay.

And then I like to go to this place of, let’s assume the best about them and the best about you and let’s assume we do love and care about each other and on our better days, we do ultimately want the other person to be happy. Then what does this mean? Because then we can get a lot more curious about it and just know, wow, maybe there are different ways to spend. And that doesn’t have to mean anything less about me because I’m not less than as a human, because now there’s multiple ways to spend well.

You don’t have to be more special than another person to be special. So it’s relying on that vulnerability of maybe I’m still a good person and we do it differently. And they don’t like the way I’m doing it. And I really like the way I’m doing it. And how do we work together in a way that supports our individuality but also shows us support for ourselves in our own ways and allows us to be unique individuals. But we can do that as long as we’re not saying there is one right way and I have it right and you have it wrong because that’s just such an elementary way of finding your identity.

Jody: It’s hard for people to let go of, don’t you think? I’m just thinking about the coaching I do with people privately and when it’s like, what if your way of being with money is right and good and works well and his way of being with money is right and good? And sometimes there is that resistance of, if I just say it’s okay then he’s just going to go spend all the money or he’s going to never let me spend money, whatever the thing is. I know you do some work when you’re working with couples, you do some where they’re together and some with them individually. Is that correct?

Natalie: Yes.

Jody: And do you notice a difference? Is it harder for someone in front of their spouse to admit maybe my way isn’t just the one right way? I’m sure it varies, but I’d just love to hear what happens in those coaching sessions on those topics that we have a hard time letting go of.

Natalie: Yeah. So I don’t think it is because of the way I have my program set up where I do work with people individually for a while because I do feel it’s really important for them to know that I absolutely support them and their decisions. And as I’m helping them to learn how to do that, because anytime we’re at odds with someone else, it’s always coming back to some insecurity in ourselves. So when I can help them find some space to be a lot more unconditionally loving of themselves, which might even mean I don’t like the way I spend and I still am not going to criticize myself for it.

But when I’m working with couples, I really don’t meet with them together until I feel that we have a really good spot where they both feel really supported by me. And then we’ll come together as a couple, even if they’re really struggling.

I had one like this recently, and I just started off saying, “I hope both of you at this point really feel that I’m in your court. And so I think this can be really beneficial for us, even if you’re at odds and that’s okay if you are. This is our opportunity to work through that. And to work on the things we’re working on individually and see that I’m working with you two the same way. That this isn’t about that one is really lousy in this way so no wonder they’re struggling.” Or, “They’re the worst. How do we account for that?” That does not work. And I don’t think that’s helpful at all.

Instead, it’s, no, you’re an amazing person. And yeah, you’re flawed and you have insecurities and some things about yourself that you don’t like and so does this person. How do we make room for that?

Jody: It’s like you’re creating a safe space for that I feel. Where it’s okay that we’re just a couple of humans. And then we don’t have to have good guys and bad guys and right and wrong.

Natalie: Right. I think that’s so important. It cannot be the case of looking at one or the other. Even if we’re looking at things that might seem more extreme. If we’re looking at mental health or someone said or did something that was mean by both of your standards. We have to know that’s never coming from confidence. And so ultimately this is where it feels very counterintuitive.

I talk to a lot of people that are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which I am as well. Not everyone I work with is, but people will say, “But they’re not supposed to. It’s not okay that they’re doing this thing. They’re looking at pornography or they’re doing this.” But I like to remind people, remember why we’re trying to do all this. Because we do believe that if we become more like Christ, we’ll be happier. So doesn’t that say that maybe we should have compassion for people that aren’t making those choices you are making that you think make you happier.

And again, it’s counterintuitive, but if we’re not looking at it, that it’s a challenge to me and that’s also not to say you should just accept everything and be okay with everything. Part of this is saying, “Yeah, you don’t like that they’re doing that and you don’t like that it’s a struggle for you.” All of that is okay. But starting from that point is going to get us to find ways to work together with each other so much faster than saying, “You should be more perfect than you are. Oh, and by the way, I shouldn’t judge. So I should also be more perfect than I am in this moment.” That does not work.

Jody: One of the things again, I remember when you first started doing couples coaching. I always love hearing about the experience that it seems is common for men and I don’t mean to stereotype this way. So correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems it’s not uncommon anyway for the man to come to it more reluctantly, just getting any kind of help or whoever it is that comes to it reluctantly. But that oftentimes it’s the men that respond also quickly and latch onto the tools that you use and make fast progress. I know those are gross stereotypes and generalizations.

Natalie: But it’s true, it’s absolutely true. But I think there’s reasons for that. And yes, of course, that’s not every single couple. It will be different in some, but the vast majority fall into that in my experience. But I think it makes sense why. I think oftentimes the person, if we’re being really honest with ourselves, the person who’s driving the idea to come and get help is the one that feels I am confident enough that my story makes sense. And I want them to see that they need to make some change. So no wonder the other person doesn’t want to come.

Jody: I want a third party to kind of validate that I’m right about this.

Natalie: Yes. And so if you’re the one that’s more verbally articulate in the relationship. So maybe you’ve been able to craft a story that says why you’re right and they’re wrong more of the time. Again, I don’t think people are intentionally trying to do that and there’s reasons for that. But you could see that if you’re someone who isn’t able to articulate their experience as naturally, why would you want to go to a counselor or a therapist, a coach who is in your mind, going to say, yeah, they’re going to tell me why I’m doing it wrong.

And I’m already being told that and maybe even part of me agrees and I don’t know how to change it. Who would want to go to that? But the reason I think that if you are in that situation whether you’re a man or not, the reason people really do end up finding it to be a different experience is because that is not my approach at all. There’s no part of me that’s looking to decide who’s right and wrong.

In fact, if you’re the one that’s really struggling with your partner, guess what? That’s work you need to do. I’m not looking at your partner to change. I’m never looking at it like, well, you’re right. They really are causing you to be miserable. I’m like, “Okay, I get why you don’t like that. And now what, how do we help you be more resilient instead of needing them to change for you to feel better?”

Jody: Or have boundaries or something.

Natalie: Yeah, sometimes it’s boundaries, but oftentimes it’s just learning how to take personal responsibility for the things that we’re not happy in which doesn’t sound fun. But it’s actually so much more empowering, because then and again, I think people hear that and think, so I should just be okay with things I don’t like. And I’m absolutely not saying that.

I think you need more compassion for yourself and the things you don’t like and be like, “No kidding, I don’t like this. But let’s look at the options that are available to me on how I can resolve this.” One is for them to change, but that’s maybe most likely the hardest way for you to find relief.

Jody: And the least likely. And I guess the reason I’m throwing in things like boundaries and whatever and again, tell me what your experience has been. But I feel whether it’s your real life experience or just in your mind, you start dreaming up scenarios and we kind of go to worst case scenarios. Really, Natalie, so you’re saying if my spouse is abusive to me or is gaslighting me or whatever, then I just need to learn to be okay with it. That’s an extreme scenario.

Well, I don’t know what you’re seeing. I know you get some really heavy, serious problems in there. But then there’s the other side of all the judgments and ideas we have about what makes for a good husband or a good wife. And what we thought it was going to be like when we were married and how we thought we were going to feel and how we have this unrealistic expectation. And I think that coaching can help in either scenario, what’s tricky is trying to apply a one size fits all.

And I’m asking you to do that so I recognize the challenge of it. I don’t know. Do you want to speak to that at all?

Natalie: Yeah. And I think we can go to a one size fits all in general terms, maybe not this specific approach to how we resolve it. But in general, every ‘bad behavior’ comes from some sort of shame, everything. And so that’s really what I’m helping people undo and that’s why I think it’s so counterproductive to have a conversation with someone and say, “What you did, that’s so mean or you shouldn’t talk to them that way.” Yeah, no kidding.

People don’t like when they’re showing up in ways that are unkind. We have a pretty good sense of what that is. So if someone is showing up in an unkind way, I don’t know if this is a gift I have but I do feel compassion for them. I’m like, “They’re scared or they’re feeling attacked. They’re feeling insecure.” So the last thing they need is judgment outside of them. So instead, it’s understanding the vulnerability behind it and helping them work through that and get to a place of self-compassion and understanding for why they do what they do, along with an approach.

Because every time they might act out on that, they’re liking themselves less. They’re finding more evidence that their shame is valid. And we don’t want to validate the shame. We want to say, “Okay, so here’s a process where we can slow down our reaction and we want to interrupt that pattern and start establishing new patterns so that you’re acting more in integrity. But we can’t do it from a place of so that then you can like yourself, we have to find compassion for ourselves first.”

Jody: What about when there are kids involved as I’m sure there often are, what if I’m like, “Okay, I can do that work on my own self?” Because I get this question a lot, then I see my spouse mistreating, being angry, unkind, whatever, towards the kids.

Natalie: Yeah. So what do you do in that situation?

Jody: Yeah, because the way the question gets asked to me a lot and I just want to hear how you would approach this is, it’s one thing when I feel like he’s mistreating me, but what about when it’s affecting other people, then are you saying I’m just supposed to ‘not try to change him’?

Natalie: So here’s the tricky thing. So especially when we’re talking about things like abuse or there’s kids involved. There’s so much shame, not just for the person who’s acting out that way, but for the other person as well. So if I see that my husband is acting in a way that I don’t think is okay for the kids and I’m staying in that relationship. What I find with people is a lot of shame in that.

In our society, we talk about, especially for women, it’s, don’t stand for that. A woman stands up for herself by demanding she’s only respected. So what does that unfortunately communicate to women who are staying in situations that are not what they wanted and take that to any extreme is they’re weak. They are not getting their own back. That’s the opposite of feminism. And I think that is such a damaging message for women because these are people that need greater support and it can come across very shaming if we’re not careful.

So in a situation like that, I would say, yes, you have to understand that that’s a scary situation. If someone is acting out from anger, that’s scary. Now, what did you do in that situation? What do you want to do in that situation? Yes, how can we set some boundaries? How do we keep you and your kids safe? Because the last thing we want to do is rely on them maintaining their temper to keep all of you safe. They are the least able to do that in that situation, so what can we do?

Now, as far as do you want them to change? Absolutely. Do you want to suggest they get help? Maybe you need them to get help. Maybe you don’t want to live in the same house with them for a while. And you’re going to take your kids with you, and that might be the most loving, compassionate thing you can do for yourself and your partner.

So that’s a very individual decision that needs to be made based on a whole bunch of factors. But again, I think it should be left to the individual and we have to be really careful about making these broad statements about what should or shouldn’t be done.

Jody: That’s so good. I love how you talk about that in general too, back to not such an extreme situation, but just I think we have this kind of Leave it to Beaver or whatever picture.

Natalie: You just aged yourself, Jody, you just aged yourself.

Jody: Do you guys not know who Leave it to Beaver is? What is the new standard?

Natalie: I was trying to come up with something fast so I can seem younger, but I’m with you. I know Leave it to Beaver so go with it.

Jody: Anyway, I just remember again years ago you were coaching a couple and it was like, “Well, I think they wanted to stay together until their kids graduated.” And then they didn’t plan to, but you were like, “It can look however you want. You can share a bedroom or not. You can have your own apartment.” We’re not suggesting that that’s ideal, but I love the idea that you can create whatever you want for your marriage.

And I know actually many very happily married couples who have separate bedrooms even. I think we have to just be more open to what is a ‘good’ healthy marriage’ and let ourselves define it.

Natalie: I just have to share. One of our cute little neighbor girls who’s six. I was outside with our dog the other day and she said, “Oh, we have a dog. Our dad sleeps on the couch with our dog every night.” I’m like, “You know what? It’s normal.” Of course she doesn’t know it’s not but her mom would probably [crosstalk].

Jody: Okay, wait, wait, wait. That also reminds me of my favorite scenes in The Simpsons where Homer’s supposed to explain the birds and the bees to Bart. And so he says, “Okay, Bart, so you know how your mom and I sleep in the same bed?” And he’s like, “Yeah.” And he goes, “Do you know why?” And he goes, “Yeah, because we’re poor.” Then he goes, “That’s right. And we’re poor because we had kids.” Okay, good job, good talk.

Natalie: That’s so great. I love it.

Jody: Anyway, okay, sorry. What were we going to say about this?

Natalie: No, but I totally agree. That is how I teach. I just love that idea again because everything I feel like I’m working with people on as a coach is to combat shame. And we naturally have shame because our fear brain sends us to shame to keep us alive. So we so naturally go into shame. It’s not just because I’m just someone who was born with low self-esteem or I’ve had a rough life. No, our brain is looking for what could go wrong, not what could go right. And so shame makes sense because it keeps us in hiding and it keeps us living a smaller life and being less vulnerable.

So, so much of what I’m working with people on is, even though they might not call it shame, it might look like guilt, might be less intense, it can come across as guilt or disconnection or apathy. But anyway, it comes out in a bunch of different forms which is something I work with people to help them figure out their unique style and how it comes out, but that’s a whole other discussion.

But yes, so I think it helps because again, if we’re feeling shame that I’ve been sleeping on the couch and we don’t want anyone to know. Again, that’s breeding shame. That’s the opposite of what we want to be doing. So I like to just open up to people, “Yeah, this is not what you thought it would be. And you’re really struggling right now.” I think we have to be careful not lumping it into this category of our marriage is so terrible.

I’m like, “Yeah, it’s hard right now. And there’s some moments even during this challenging time where it’s not hard, it’s fine, but yes, it’s not overall what you want. But if sleeping on the couch is making it easier for you guys to make this work right now and you both want to try to make it work for any reason at all, perfect.” Why do we have to say that that’s negative, that’s bad? So I think we have to be careful where I think it’s well intended, but people like to put out a lot of advice, you’ve got to have a date night every week.

Jody: Don’t go to bed angry.

Natalie: Yeah, Jordan Peterson, who I love. He has some very prescriptive ways that couples should interact. And again, I think it’s coming from a good place and that’s worked for him. But if it’s causing you to feel any guilt or shame because you don’t have that. Then totally disregard it because that is not eternal truth.

Jody: Or resentment.

Natalie: Or resentment.

Jody: Or resentment. There’s no return. I love that. Well, this is all so good and this really is, I will say one of the topics that I notice brings up a lot of personal work. This, building a business and trying to lose weight for me are the three things that bring up my own personal work. But with my marriage, it’s vulnerability for sure. And I consider myself a pretty confident person.

But being able to really connect with Jake requires a level of vulnerability that I’m not comfortable with. I think partly just our family of origin wasn’t very intimate emotionally. And so I’m not real comfortable with emotional intimacy, I notice. So I love the work that you’re doing. I think it’s so important. Does it work for people, Natalie?

Natalie: Yes, there’s not a one size fits all. I am not preaching that I have eternal truth doctrine that I’m teaching. I like to even say that because I think it’s dangerous to look at anything as that, other than your own spiritual beliefs. I think that I do believe that eternal truth exists, absolutely. However, what I’m teaching is not that. I feel like it is very effective for the time we live in and the way our society functions. And different messaging coming at us and the expectations we have of relationships and being parents and all that.

And so I feel it’s very effective for the way humans interact and feel safe in this particular day and age. So yes, I do find it can be very effective for people. I get messages all the time where sometimes I don’t know if it was helpful at all, and it’ll just be a one off session or somebody I coached on the podcast. And then I get a message back and I’m like, “Oh, good it was really helpful.”

It might not be helpful for everyone and that’s okay. But I am a fan not just because I’m doing it, but it just feels to me, if you’re wanting to feel better about yourself and become more of who you are as a unique individual and find ways to function as a partnership that way. Then it’s going to be helpful for you.

Jody: Okay, Nats, well, thank you so much for everything you’ve taught us. If people want to get more personal help from you, where do they go?

Natalie: Yeah, there are so many different ways that I work with people. But just to simplify it, if you are looking for help, I know that can feel really daunting. It can feel embarrassing, and sometimes we make it into this big thing, we need to get help or we need to talk to someone. Everybody can use some help in their relationship. So whether you’re really struggling or whether you just know things could be a bit better, I put together this class called how to disagree without conflict because every relationship has disagreements.

We are two unique individuals. Your marriage isn’t in trouble if you disagree. There’s no relationship where we just agree with everything all the time.

Jody: It’s actually healthy to be able to disagree, I mean it’s a good thing.

Natalie: Absolutely. And we choose someone who’s very different from us, which is actually really beneficial. It’s really good that we are different as long as we have some information on how to do that in a way that doesn’t feel so challenging to our egos and things.

So I put together this free class, how to disagree without conflict, where you are going to get some really helpful tools to help you navigate step by step that process of how do we go from disagreeing to oftentimes it explodes very quickly. How do we interrupt that process and how do we come up with a new way that actually brings us closer together because of our differences rather than just deciding, well, we don’t agree on this and now we just need to ignore it for a while until it comes back up again.

So if you are struggling in any way or you just know things could be a bit better, come to this free webinar. It is going to be recorded so it’s okay if you don’t come live. No one’s going to be on camera so you don’t have to worry about anybody seeing you or showing up and having to stare at yourself on a Zoom screen. I hate that when I do classes.

It’s also okay if your partner doesn’t want to come. So much of the work, I’d say 80% of the work, maybe even 90% of the work we do on our relationship is work we do on ourselves to make things better. So if they want to come, great, if not, that’s okay. You could even use this as, if you like date night, record it and play it for date night and discuss and could bring up some interesting conversations between the two of you.

Jody: I love it. And I will be able to ask questions or whatever on this call though?

Natalie: Yes. So you can ask questions. I want to make sure that you’re getting personalized help. So for sure you can ask questions at the end. I’ll try to save some time as well. If anyone wants to raise their hand then no one has to come on screen if they don’t want to. Yeah, you can find the details for that at natalieclay.com/freeclass.

Jody: Okay, I love it. I was going to say that’s my favorite kind of Zoom where I don’t have to be on video.

Natalie: Me too, I don’t like being on video [crosstalk].

Jody: But if I can type in a question, I might want to get a question answered, but I don’t want to have to put make-up on.

Natalie: For sure, and I don’t think people should just come and feel like they have to worry about being exposed or anything. I know it takes some time to be comfortable. Being on a Zoom call with a bunch of strangers is not super comfortable to begin with, but again, you won’t have to see each other. You can ask any questions. Just come and get something out of it for yourself, don’t worry about anything else.

Jody: Okay, Alright, natalieclay.com/freeclass. Go check it out. Are we going to learn about how to get more help from you if we want it?

Natalie: Yes, for sure. So I will be giving information on that call about a two day couples intensive I have coming up in Carlsbad on May 6th and 7th, which I am so excited about. It’s going to be two full days where we’re going to go through my entire program in an intensive setting. So that instead of dragging it out and coming weekly for calls, we’re going to bust it out and get you really intensive help over those two days. So yes, [crosstalk] about the details for that as well.

Jody: Love it. Alright, thanks Nats, thanks for coming on.

Natalie: Thanks for having me. Let’s do couples coaching with Jake and Jody on the next one.

Jody: I’m in. Alright, see you later.

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The post 454. How to Make Your Marriage Easier with Natalie Clay appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Cognitive Dissonance is something I first learned about in college and it really resonated with me. Now, I know the term might sound a bit scary, but trust me, it’s actually quite the opposite. In fact, it can be used as a powerful tool for personal growth and achievements, which is why I’d like to talk about it today.

Do you ever self-sabotage? I definitely have. Sometimes we accomplish great things, like adapting to a healthier diet or hitting a career goal – only to slip back into some old habits. These experiences are more common than we think. And by the end of the episode, you’ll understand why it’s so important to tackle the mental workload too.

Join me this week to discover the power of aligning your behaviors and your beliefs. You’ll hear examples of the parts of your life you can use cognitive dissonance in, and you’ll learn why mental barriers are just as important to work on as the external results.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The mental barriers we need to break down. * What the term Cognitive Dissonance means. * How to be in a state of cognitive dissonance. * Why you need to align your behaviors with your beliefs. * How to leverage cognitive dissonance in different parts of your life.

Mentioned on the Show:

I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
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Brené Brown

Welcome to episode 453, Leveraging Cognitive Dissonance. If you’re familiar with the term ‘cognitive dissonance’ from the world of psychology, you may think of it as a negative thing or a sign of something off, and it can be. But it can also be an awesome way to leverage the way your mind works naturally to create something extraordinary. Today I’m teaching you how to put this part of human nature to work in your favor.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast. I have a very fun message in store for you today and I think you’re going to love all about cognitive dissonance. Before we get into it, I want to remind you that we have a podcast hotline and I want to thank everybody who has called in with comments or questions. I love so much hearing your voice. I love feeling like I’m not just talking to myself here.

So if you have a comment or especially a question, I’m going to be doing some more episodes pretty soon here where I address questions. You can leave me a message at 1888 HI JODY M. Second of all, if you’ve been considering joining The Lab, I want to encourage you to do it right now because I’m going to be closing the doors for a little bit here to new clients. So this is your last chance to get in for a little while. The reason why is because I want to take everybody that comes in and take really good care of you.

I want to really hold your hand and spend some quality time with you, especially in the beginning as we get you up and running with these tools. I don’t know why, but for some reason I’ve just been feeling a call towards doing some more intimate coaching than what I’ve been doing for the past few years. So one of the ways I want to do that is in The Lab. So I have a brand new five week program, you’re going to go through with me. And it’s called The Instant Win Formula and it’s for everybody who’s new in The Lab so that I can really get to know you.

You will have plenty of opportunity to ask me questions or come on and talk to me because this will be an intimate group. And I just want to, like I said, really spend some quality time with you getting you up to speed on how to use these tools in your life. So that’s going to be an amazing program, The Instant Win Formula. You have to join me in The Lab to get it. And like I said, within the next, I think, week of when this podcast airs, we’re going to close the doors for a little while. So jump in right now at jodymoore.com/thelab.

The other thing that’s going to be happening soon is I have two new higher end intimate deep dive programs. And we will have more information coming, but seats will be very limited for both, because like I said, I want to work a little bit more closely with people. And so we’ll open those spots up first to people in The Lab. One of them is going to be around reversing pre diabetes. This has been a big focus of mine for the last little while. And I’m so excited about the success I’m having, some of the strategies and tools I’ve discovered.

And I know there are many of you out there who are struggling with this topic as well. I’m still doing some of that work, so you’ll be doing it along with me. But that’s going to be an awesome and again very limited, very intimate program. The second one is going to be for coaches who want to really nail down their offer and their niche and how they’re going to get clients. So again, both of those will have more information coming soon, but we will open it up first and foremost to members of The Lab. So make sure you’re in there if you want at all to join either of those.

Okay, so let’s talk about cognitive dissonance, shall we? Let’s begin with the definition. This definition comes from the website medicalnewstoday.com. I feel like it’s a great definition. It says, ‘cognitive dissonance is the discomfort a person feels when their behavior does not align with their values or beliefs.’ I love how simple and clear that definition is. Probably also love that that’s the way it was first defined for me, and the way that I think about it today,

I want to tell you the first time I really became aware of cognitive dissonance and the power of it was when I was in college at an institute class. So for those of you who aren’t members of my faith, institute is a religious institution that we have at a lot of colleges where there are a lot of LDS kids and you can take classes that are religious based. And so in this class, the teacher taught us that cognitive dissonance is exactly what I just described to you.

If your behaviors and your beliefs don’t line up the way you said it was, you will either change your beliefs or you’ll change your behaviors until they do line up to get out of that dissonance. And he followed it up with, this is probably why we’re constantly reminded of the importance of reading our scriptures, going to church, listening to conference. It’s not that we don’t understand the principles of our religion. It’s that we want to make sure that we continue to reinforce our beliefs because at times our behaviors won’t line up with that. We will all make mistakes.

We will all sometimes indulge in behaviors that aren’t in alignment with our principles and values. And then we will either change our beliefs or change our behaviors until they line back up again, thanks to the way amazing, brilliant heavenly parents created us. So if we keep reinforcing the beliefs, then we’re more likely to change behaviors that don’t serve us in the end. Do you see what I’m saying?

So that really landed for me for some reason. The way he said it, really simply was, if you’re sending and reading your scriptures. You’re either going to stop sending or you’re going to stop reading your scriptures. So just keep reading your scriptures. Really interesting, simple way to think about it. So I want to take this principle though, and I want us to apply it to a lot of other areas of our lives and I want to talk about how to use it as leverage to really help you grow and evolve and create more of what you want. So here’s how I like to think about it.

A lot of the coaching we do is around the belief line and this is why actually, it’s because of cognitive dissonance. If you tell me that you’re not capable of making money and I can coach you to a place where you believe that maybe you could make money and then eventually I can coach you to a place where you believe, of course, I can make money. Then guess what will happen with your behaviors? You will react accordingly. So we spend a lot of time there, but there’s another way to think about it as well.

You can change behaviors and stick with the behavior that you want. And because of cognitive distance, your beliefs will eventually catch up unless you quit the behavior. This is why, I didn’t realize this at the time, I wouldn’t have articulated it this way. But when I first started my business 10 years ago, I told myself, the only way I fail is if I quit. So I’m just going to keep going. I didn’t put a lot of pressure on myself in terms of what results I had to create or by what timeline.

I insisted on having fun along the way. Luckily, that wasn’t that hard for me to do because I love coaching so much, I could talk about it forever. But even with learning technology and marketing, as much as possible I tried to enjoy the process. But I just kept telling myself, if we just don’t quit trying to become a successful entrepreneur, then there’s no way we won’t. And that was true, because even though I didn’t believe in the beginning that I was a successful entrepreneur, my behaviors were as though I was. Here’s what I mean.

I went to work during the set hours. I think in the beginning I worked three days a week because I was still having babies and I had little ones at home and things, so I wanted to be with them. So I said, “I’ll work three days a week and probably six hours a day on those three days,” very part-time. But I, in my mind I was like, I’m going to succeed at this, and I chose to believe that. And so I chose to show up and sit down at my desk and ‘go to work,’ even though I had no clients to coach.

And I should say, I chose to believe that it was possible. I really wanted to believe I am successful, but I had to believe first it’s possible to be successful to get there. So I think that’s okay. My point is, my behaviors were that of somebody who is successful. Now that I have a bunch of clients and I have a team, even if I don’t show up to work then there are people on my team who aren’t getting what they need from me. Or there are clients who are waiting and don’t have a coach showing up for their call.

So not showing up to work is really not an option for me now unless it’s a scheduled day off. If I say I’m going to do something, I’ve got people waiting on me, I’m going to follow through. But in the beginning that wasn’t the case. I had to just pretend, I just had to do the behaviors that I thought I would be doing once I was successful. And what do you know, my brain caught up and the world outside me caught up. It all happens at the same time, as is often the case.

I’m not opposed to you starting with the behavior you want to change. Change the behavior you want to change. What I do want you to know is that it’s going to feel uncomfortable. It’s going to feel negative. It might feel scary. It might feel overwhelming. You might feel like a fraud. You might be like, “I have imposter syndrome.” You might feel guilty. Your brain might try to tell you that you shouldn’t be doing what you’re doing or I don’t know, all kinds of negative emotions can be part of cognitive dissonance.

That’s why I like that word dissonance, because we don’t even have to pinpoint exactly what it is. If we just go, “This is just dissonance because I’m behaving in a way that doesn’t line up with my beliefs and values and so it feels uncomfortable and there’s a wrestle here.” But if I keep behaving in that way, eventually my brain will catch up. And the outside world, the results I’ll create will catch up as well, making it, of course, then easier to believe.

What most people do though is, we change a behavior without realizing I’m going to have to also change my belief about myself. And I’ll give you some examples in a minute. But we don’t realize that the mental work is an important part of the process. We just try to change the behavior and we use willpower. And some willpower is going to be necessary. But then if I don’t do the mental work, at some point I come along and self-sabotage. Have you ever experienced this? Have you ever lost a bunch of weight and then went back and regained it all plus some? I have.

Have you ever created a successful business only to then see it go right down? Have you pursued a degree in school only to drop out? And again, sometimes we have valid reasons for these things, but I’m just saying, self-sabotage is a real thing and it’s so fascinating. Why do we do that? Well, it’s because if we’re not doing the mental work along the way then we will eventually change either our beliefs or our behaviors until the two line up again, it’s because of cognitive dissonance.

This is why just changing the external result doesn’t do it. I think just changing the external result is probably the worst way to get there. Because if you change your behaviors, it’s probably going to take time for the external results to catch up. Meaning, let’s say I want to believe that I’m healthy and I believe right now that I’m not, I believe I’m a person who likes food too much and overeats and whatever. And I want to believe I’m healthy and I can live this way forever.

If I change my behaviors, I start watching what I’m eating, I pay more attention, I eat more of the foods that serve me and less of the ones that don’t, maybe I add exercise in there, whatever. I also need to work on the mental side of, I’m a healthy person, I can live this way forever. And it will probably take some time before I’m going to see those changes in my body, before my weight goes down or my glucose is more regulated, or my muscle strength improves, my body composition changes.

Whatever it is you’re trying to do, that’s going to take some time, which gives me time to nurture the new beliefs if I do it along with changing my behaviors. The problem is, if we just get the external result then we haven’t had the time necessary to both change our behaviors and change our beliefs to create what we want.

Here’s what I mean. When somebody wins the lottery, you’d think it would be easy then to get out of scarcity and into abundance, to stop thinking, I don’t have enough money. I’m not a person who has money. I can’t pay my bills, whatever, all those scarcity beliefs. If you win the lottery and you get a big lump sum, wouldn’t you think that it would be easy to think, I have enough money? I can take care of my needs now. I’m a person who has money. That would be simple to believe. Doesn’t it feel that way?

If I gave you a magic pill and you suddenly lost the weight and were healthy and all of the external world, the external results were changed overnight, doesn’t it feel like you would believe the new thing? You wouldn’t necessarily unless you intentionally did the mental work along the way and ideally learn how to change your behaviors too. This is why people oftentimes, I should say, people who win the lottery end up in financial trouble again.

This is why sometimes you go help someone in whatever way. You might help someone financially. You might help someone solve any other kind of challenge or problem in their life and then they end up right back in that problem again. It’s because you coming and helping them is nice. I’m not saying not to help people, but it doesn’t change their beliefs about who they are in their mind. And it also doesn’t change their behaviors and habits.

So how do we use this to our advantage? Well, first of all, just the awareness of it alone can be really powerful, because if you decide, hey, I want to believe that I’m a person who can, let’s say, make money in my business. And your behaviors right now aren’t showing that and your results aren’t showing that and you don’t believe that you are right now. Well, you can either nurture the belief that you are and that’s actually not that hard to do.

That’s a lot of what we do in coaching is we talk about, well, what makes someone successful, what is required? A brain, access to some information, maybe a computer. Do you have those things? Do you have a desire? Alright, then you could be successful. So we can work on that belief but also just start taking the actions that you think you will take once you’re successful.

I will say I’m really grateful to myself for doing this. When I first started this podcast I just chose to believe that I’m a successful podcaster and that a lot of people were going to listen to my podcast. And that wasn’t true at all in the beginning, but I just aligned my behaviors with that. Meaning I publish an episode every week, period, without fail. I don’t miss a week. And in my mind I was like, one day there are going to be tons of people waiting for that episode. I don’t want to let them down.

So I remember because I used to do the whole thing on my own. I edited it myself. I uploaded it. I just did it all myself. And I remember certain times because I’ve always released on Fridays, I can remember being in bed on Thursday night and realizing I forgot to upload the podcast or I forgot to edit it even. Sometimes even I forgot to record it.

And I remember getting out of bed at 11 o’clock at night when everyone else in my house was already in bed asleep. And getting my microphone and recording or getting my headphones and my laptop in my bed and editing and then uploading and going, “Phew, I did it on time.” And the truth is, there weren’t very many people listening in the beginning, no one really would have cared. But I behaved as though, and eventually I then believed it and then the outside world caught up with me. Do you see what I’m saying?

So listen, you’ve got to know that there’s going to be dissonance as you grow and evolve. If you want to believe that you’re a good parent, if you want to believe that you can find a partner, whether that be a romantic partner, a spouse. Or you want to believe that you have lots of friends, you want to believe that you have a full social life. Allow yourself the dissonance between where you are and where you want to be. And you can work on the beliefs but I’d like you to also take the action at the same time, take the action, and notice the discomfort.

I’ll tell you what, I’m going to actually do this today. I’m going to execute this myself and I would encourage you to find a way to execute it as well. Because I like to strengthen my ability to be in dissonance and to not hurry and rush out of it back to wherever I was, but to get out of it by growing. That’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to evolve through the dissonance, we won’t stay in it forever. But if we keep the behaviors, eventually our beliefs catch up or we work on our beliefs. And we don’t want to sabotage in the end so we have to do both of those things.

But my point is, the more you allow yourself into that space, the more you know, yeah, this is just what happens. This is what Brené Brown calls the messy middle. I think I’m using that term the way she would use it. I don’t know. That’s the way I would think about it. So what I’m going to do today is go to the gym. Now, it’s not that I don’t go to the gym. I’ve been going to the gym for a very long time. In fact, I used to teach group fitness classes at a gym in California. But I have always been a person who goes to classes. I love classes. I have had some of the most amazing teachers. I love a turbo kick class.

I was just thinking the other day about step aerobics. Do you guys remember step aerobics? I remember in college going to step aerobics and loving it and even before step aerobics, just old school aerobics. We were doing ponies and sashays and things like that, and I have always loved a fitness class. But what I really have almost, I could count on one hand the number of times I’ve done is go out on the weight floor and use those machines or lift those weights. And I just walk right past all of that into the classes.

Now, it doesn’t bother me, I just don’t think about it at all. I don’t think of myself as somebody who knows my way around the gym or knows how to use those machines or knows what to do with those weights. And yet that’s not entirely true. I have weights at home, I can use those. But to be in front of other people who have been doing this a long time, who know what they’re doing. I don’t know the etiquette. I don’t know the proper usage. There’s so many things I don’t know. And I’m going to go to that gym and not go to a class.

I actually tried to find a class and there’s not one today, but not during the times I can go anyway. So I was like, “Alright. I’m just going to go to the weight floor and I’m going to let myself be in cognitive dissonance.” Because in my mind I’m not a person who knows what to do on the weight floor or who looks how you’re supposed to look on the weight floor or any of those. I’m not that person, but I’m going to go behave as though I am. I’m going to go figure it out. I’m also not going to be afraid to ask for help if I need to.

But I’m going to be a person who goes to the gym and lifts weights. That’s going to be uncomfortable and I’m all in because first of all, I want to become a person who can do that, who becomes comfortable with it, who is strong, who regularly lifts weights. But second of all, I want to get better at being in a state of cognitive dissonance on purpose, choosing it on purpose. And working on both the behaviors and the beliefs so that I evolve myself in a useful way.

I want to encourage you to do the same. What are you going to try out? What’s something that kind of scares you, something that makes you a little nervous, something you want to try but you’re afraid to? Do that thing and expect cognitive dissonance to come with you because you’re a mentally healthy adult. And I would love to hear how it goes. I’m going to report back on how it goes at the gym. Stay tuned. Thanks for joining me everybody. I’ll see you next time.

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What are your thoughts about physically fit, thin, or strong people? Do you ever find yourself judging “those annoying health and fitness people,” even if they seemingly have exactly what you want?

This week’s episode comes from a question left on the podcast hotline. The question goes, “I was thinking about how I have judgment toward people who are healthy and fit. Even though that’s what I want, I find myself self-sabotaging because I do have some negative thoughts about people who are in shape.” If you resonate with this statement, know that while it seems to make no sense, it actually makes perfect sense, and I’m showing you what to do with your judgments.

Join me this week to hear why you might be judging people who appear to be healthy or fit, especially if it’s what you want for yourself. You’ll learn why you don’t have to feel bad about your judgments, how to override your default judging brain so you can feel empowered about your health goals, and how your judgments can offer you valuable information about yourself.

Make Peace with Food is a four-week challenge where, for just $29, you’ll get multiple video lessons from me every week and live Zoom calls where you can bring your questions and get coached. If you’re looking for something new to motivate you to make peace with food, this is your sign to join.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why we judge people who appear to be physically fit, thin, healthy, or strong. * How to override your default brain to feel empowered about your health goals. * Why you don’t have to feel bad about your judgments of other people. * The reason we get stuck in the shame-blame cycle, and how to get out. * Why I believe it’s important to keep your desire for achieving your health goals in check. * How your judgments of other people can offer valuable information.

Mentioned on the Show:

I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
I’ve written a book to introduce thought work in a way children will understand called Carl and Sophia and Your Amazing Brain, illustrated by my talented daughter Macy!
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Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore
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Check out this episode on my YouTube channel
1. Money Haters

Welcome to episode 452, Those Annoying Health and Fitness People. Do you ever find yourself judging people who appear to be physically fit, thin, healthy or strong even though that’s what you want for yourself? It’s not just you. This is so common. It makes no sense and yet it makes perfect sense. Today we’re diving into why we do this and how to override your default brain to become more empowered around your health goals and more of the non-judgmental person it feels so much better to be.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Okay, everybody. Welcome to today’s podcast. Today we have a Q&A session. I’m going to answer a question that one of you left on the podcast hotline. If you have a question you want to leave the number is 1888 hi Jody M. That’s Jody with a Y and M as in Moore, 1888 hi Jody M. Let me go ahead and play this question and then we’re going to dive right in. I’ve got all kinds of fun things I want to share with you today.

Hi Jody, this is my question. I was listening to your money haters podcast and actually the whole time I was thinking about how I have judgment toward people that are healthy and fit. And even though that’s what I want, I find myself self-sabotaging because I think I do have some negative thoughts about people that are in shape, maybe they’re not relatable, stuck up or something. Even though I know that those thoughts aren’t really true, I still have those thoughts.

So I would love for you to talk about that on a podcast sometime and just how to kind of reframe those thoughts. And if you think that would directly affect results as far as getting healthier and stronger and being okay with feeling better and looking better and if that’s what you want. So anyways, that’s my question. Thank you.

Okay, thank you so much for sending in this question. First of all, if you missed the money haters episode and you want to go back and listen to it after this, it’s episode 447, just a few episodes back. What I love so much is how this woman identified that as she’s listening to me talk about our judgment that we have over people with money and how that’s impacting our money, maybe she doesn’t have that issue. But she’s like, “I think I’m doing that with people who are healthy and people who are fit.”

And that’s why coaching works so well for me because I like to listen to other people get coached on different topics. There’s an application oftentimes, even if I don’t have the same circumstance. And in fact it’s much easier for me to apply what I want to, to change my own behaviors, my own mindset, my own models, if you will, when I’m hearing someone else than when it’s me. Because when it’s me, I’m kind of nervous. I’m in the spotlight. I’m emotional. I’m in the thick of it.

So that secondhand application is where I’ve gotten the most traction actually out of my coaching. But that said, here’s where I want to begin. I am really fired up about this topic of food and bodies right now. I notice that I go through cycles of getting really excited about it, and then other times where I don’t want to think about it or talk about it at all. And of course, it correlates to whether or not I am being successful in the way that I want to in my life around food and health.

And what often excites me is when I find new tools and resources and new ways to think about it, that empower me. And when I feel I’m getting closer to truly embodying these concepts, I’m just becoming a person who lives a healthy lifestyle rather than having to think about it and get lots of help through coaching. And apply and use a lot of my prefrontal cortex to make that happen. That is the phases of it, though often. For things that are challenging for us, we have to put a lot of intentional focus on it until it becomes a more natural part of who we are.

So at any rate, I just have some new tools and resources I’ve discovered that add on really nicely to the things I’ve learned in the past and the work and progress that I’ve made in the past. I don’t honestly view the work I’ve done around food as failures. I really don’t. Every time I learn something new about myself, about my body, about food in general, and then as I add on, it becomes more and more of who I am.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Make Peace with Food, a four week challenge with me, Jody Moore. When I think about the percentage of my thoughts in my lifetime that have been about food or my body, it makes me cringe. What a waste. Can you relate? Did you know you don’t have to live this way for the rest of your life? It’s true. Or maybe you have health goals you haven’t been able to achieve and maintain, but you know you still have a lot of food and body drama preventing you from eating and living the way you need in order to achieve them.

Whatever your goals are, I want to invite you to join me for Make Peace with Food. You’ll learn things like the way you think about food either gives food more or less power in your life. How to decide whether or not you’re using food as fuel or joy or both and monitor yourself. How to choose what you want from food and then follow your own plan. How to navigate cravings and urges. What to do when you fall off the wagon. What to do when you’ve been really good and you feel like you need a reward. How to be patient and be in it for the long game.

And of course I’ll be giving you all my favorite thoughts about food. This is our next deep dive workshop in The Lab, so Lab members will be able to participate already. But if you’re not in The Lab, you can join for just $29. Yeah, for 29 bucks, you’ll get multiple video lessons from me each of the four weeks and live Zoom calls weekly where you can bring your questions and get coaching. If you’ve been looking for something new to motivate you to make peace with food, consider this your sign. It’s time. Head to jodymoore.com/food to join today. That’s jodymoore.com/food.

I want to begin by talking about just judgment in general. So I often find myself reminding my clients that other people’s judgments of them don’t mean anything about them. They mean something about the person doing the judging. And this goes for both positive and negative judgment. If somebody is criticizing you or leaving negative comments on your social media or has a hard time with you for some reason. That doesn’t tell us much about you. It tells us a lot about them.

What does it tell us? Well, that’s hard to say. What we know, though, is that it means something about their experience, about their current emotions, about where they’re operating from etc. It means something about them. Now, if that’s true, if other people’s judgment of you and of me means something about those other people, not about me and you, then it’s also true that our judgment of other people means something about us. It doesn’t mean anything about them.

Now, normally we don’t like to think of it this way because when we say other people judging you means something about them. I think there’s this kind of quiet, unspoken assumption that it must mean something negative about them. If somebody is criticizing you, especially if they’re doing it in a way that we would say is inappropriate or cruel or mean, then what does it mean about them? Maybe that they’re not a good person, that they’re not a nice person, whatever. We tend to have these negative assumptions about them.

I want to suggest that we step back and clean that up because it doesn’t necessarily mean something negative about them. It may mean that they’re in a lot of fear. It may mean that they have some trauma. It can mean all kinds of things that we wouldn’t necessarily call negative traits, maybe just challenges that they’re dealing with. And the same is true for you and I, my friends, you don’t have to feel bad. Don’t immediately feel bad when you’re like, “My judgment of them is about me.”

Then the next automated response from a lot of you is, “And I shouldn’t be doing it. What’s the matter with me?” I don’t want you to do that. I want you to just be curious. I want you to not push it away. It’s easy, well, it’s not easy, but sometimes what we try to do is push it away. We’re like, “I need to stop judging them.” And what we end up doing often is just redirecting our focus to something else, which is better than staying in judgment. But we miss out then on the opportunity to discover something about ourselves.

So again, that’s why I love this question so much, because if you just approach it from, this is interesting, I have a lot of judgment of these people who seem to be healthy and fit and I want to be healthy and fit. I wonder why. That’s fascinating. What’s going on in my head? What is my brain trying to do? What’s happening in there?

Now, I want to give you some things to consider that might be happening in there and maybe you strongly identify with one of these, maybe you identify with all of them. And you’ll find that many of them overlap in certain ways. But here’s where I want to start. It may be that you have a shame blame trap happening. I call it a shame blame trap because we literally are stuck in a trap bouncing back and forth between shame and blame, and it’s hard to get out of. I’m going to tell you how though, in just a minute.

So if you see somebody who’s really healthy and fit and you use that to judge yourself and feel bad about your body or your health then that’s going to generate shame if you make it mean that there’s something wrong with you for not being closer to your health goals. And that shame will feel terrible. And so many of us naturally jump right out of shame, instantaneously even sometimes, into blame. In other words, I’m not wrong, they must be wrong, they must be.

And then we just make up a bunch of stuff or maybe we have proof for it, maybe we don’t. It doesn’t matter. All we’re trying to do is get out of shame by now blaming them, just like this caller said, they must not be fun. They must not be relatable. They must be selfish. They must spend all their time at the gym and all they focus on is their body and their food. What a waste of a life. So we move right into judgment because we’re trying to get out of the shame.

Now, if you just try to dismiss the judgment of them, you may be tempted to go right back into shame again. So how do we get out of this trap? We start noticing that nobody is wrong and nobody is right. Nobody is good and noble and somebody else, weak and wrong. That’s just not a thing. What we are is different. This person has certain behaviors and thoughts and routines around food and bodies and exercise. And I have certain behaviors and thoughts and routines around food and body and exercise and it’s okay.

It’s great and amazing for them that they’re where they are and it’s great for me to be right where I am on my journey, even if I want to change it, even if I want to progress. Nobody is any better than anyone else. That person who is super lean and fit and healthy is not a better person than me. Just like when I achieve the goals I want to, I will not be a better person than I am right now. I will just be in a different place with regards to this topic, that’s it. You stop making good guys and bad guys. That’s how you get out of a shame blame trap, different, but not better.

The other thing it might be triggering for you is doubt. When we see someone else succeeding and we don’t believe it’s possible for us to succeed in the way that they have and we want to succeed in that way. Then often that’s going to feel terrible. This is similar to shame blame. We move into the judgment to escape the doubt. But instead of just judging ourselves as less than, we might be also judging ourselves as incapable of, and we still really want it.

So there’s a couple ways out of this. The first one is to do exactly what we did with the shame blame trap and remove the judgment. Don’t elevate anyone and don’t lower anyone because that’s just not true. But the other thing you can do is use other people’s success. There’s actually two more things. You can use other people’s success as evidence of what’s possible. And I will say, when it comes to health and fitness this is why I’m kind of juries out about before and after photos.

I know there’s a lot of debate and controversy about whether or not it’s healthy to be showing before and after photos. And I will say that I agree that it’s sort of objectifying and it puts the physical result onto a pedestal that is just not reality. In the end, the most amazing part of improving your health and fitness is that you’ll feel good in your body, but also that it will require so much growth from you.

It will require that you improve your relationship with yourself. And that you learn how to honor your commitments to yourself. And that you learn things about nutrition. And you learn about your own body and you connect with your own body. So many of those things are way more beneficial than looking better in your jeans. So for that reason, before and after pictures can sort of reinforce that that’s what matters and I don’t like that about it.

But what I do like about before and after photos is that it’s tough to look at somebody who’s really ahead of us, who’s really healthy and fit and feel like that’s possible for us. We tend to look at them and go, “Well, yeah, they could do it, but I can’t.” But when you see a before picture and you see that they were in the same place you are, or maybe they started further behind where you are, and they’ve gotten to where they are. It gives your brain permission to believe that might be possible for you too.

And so for that reason, I do still actually really like before and after photos for myself. If it puts you in a negative space. Not useful. But you see how it can help overcome the doubt part. And then the third way to overcome doubt is to just stop wanting it so badly. You can really work on the amount of desire you have around achieving some kind of a health goal. And I do think it’s healthy to keep it in check.

You could get rid of it all together if you want to, but I don’t even think you have to if you want to keep a part of it. Don’t let it be so extreme, though, that it’s creating this kind of drama, this kind of jealousy and doubt. They call it unattachment. The Buddhists call it unattached from what you desire. It doesn’t mean you don’t desire it. You’re just not attached to the desire.

The last thing I want to speak to, that may be happening here when you notice yourself judging someone for something like their health condition, even though you have those same goals. Is it might actually be really useful information for you about what you want or don’t want, who you want to be or who you don’t want to be. So for example, this caller said, “I notice myself thinking they must not be funny.” And she’s like, “I know that’s ridiculous but that’s what comes up in my head.”

So that could be useful information for you to take into account, which is, I don’t want to become a super serious person. I want to keep my sense of humor. I want to be able to joke around and have fun. And then you have to remind your brain, I can be that and be healthy. There are plenty of people who are funny, who are also healthy. And that’s just good for me to know that that’s important to me, that matters to me. If you want to keep that part. She said they’re not relatable. So you want to continue to be relatable. Good to know. Did you know you can?

You can change your eating habits and you can improve your health and you can still be relatable if you choose. Again, another one I hear commonly is people say, “They must be really selfish. They must be obsessed with their health or their body. They must spend all their time at the gym. I don’t want to be like that.” Good information. Again, this doesn’t mean that that person is that way necessarily. We’re not going to that extent.

We’re just noticing, it’s really important to me that I remain generous and that I keep a balance in terms of how much I think about or focus on this topic and how important I make it in my life. I want to be balanced in this way. I want to be generous. I want to be giving. Good to know. Did you know, brain, that we can be that and we can be healthy? And this person might actually be really balanced, who knows? But thanks for reminding me how much that matters to me. I like that that matters to me. I want to keep letting that matter to me.

And did you know, brain, that you can be that version of you and you can be healthy? We’re just adding on to all the good parts of us that we want to keep. We don’t have to change ourselves entirely. We don’t have to let go of anything we want to keep. We just need to add on right to achieve some of these goals.

So listen, I have so much more to say about this topic. I’m trying to decide how much more I should say today. But what I think is, when you notice yourself judging other people for being the way that you want to be in the world, there is interesting information to be learned. And you can sit down and journal out what’s happening in your brain. Remember, if you start judging it, judging yourself, telling yourself it’s wrong or bad, you’re going to lose access to that. You’re going to go, “I don’t know what I’m thinking. I don’t know.”

Or as you discover it, you’re going to follow it up really quickly with, “I know that’s ridiculous. I know I shouldn’t be thinking that.” Don’t do any of that. That’s what has you losing access to this valuable information. Just let it be there and understand it and bring it up before you decide to do anything about it. Sometimes just letting it be there is enough, and then it kind of goes away on its own, but sometimes it requires a little bit more coaching, a little bit more work. But definitely use your own judgments as useful information about what you want to work on.

Alright, you guys, that’s what I’ve got for you today. If you’re going to join me for Make Peace with Food, like I said, I’ve got a lot more, I’m excited to teach you about this topic. And I want to hear what’s going on in your head. So I’ll see you there. Otherwise, thanks for joining me today on the podcast, take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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One of the amazing things our human brains do is recognize and summarize patterns from our lives into simple and intelligent but ambiguous statements. In my world, this comes through in the problems my clients share with me, but as you can imagine, ambiguous problems only lead to ambiguous solutions.

If you’re tired of feeling stuck or confused and aren’t finding useful ideas for solving the problems you’re facing in your life, it might be time to ask yourself if you’re describing your problem with ambiguity. The great news is that all problems are figure-out-able, and I’m showing you how to get more specific about your problems so you can find specific answers.

Tune in this week to hear what ambiguity problems are and how to spot them in your life. I’m showing you why we tend to summarize our problems with ambiguity, what happens when we settle for ambiguous problems, and my top tips for starting to identify your challenges with clarity and specificity.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What ambiguity problems are and how to spot them. * Why we summarize our problems with ambiguity. * How ambiguous problems lead to ambiguous solutions. * What happens when we settle for ambiguous problems. * How to find the solutions to what feels like ambiguous problems.

Mentioned on the Show:

I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
I’ve written a book to introduce thought work in a way children will understand called Carl and Sophia and Your Amazing Brain, illustrated by my talented daughter Macy!
Come check out Be Bold
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!
Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Check out this episode on my YouTube channel
Governor Cox’s initiative – How to Disagree Better

Welcome to episode 451, Ambiguity Problems. Human beings are amazing problem solvers. We are creative and resourceful in extraordinary ways at times. So if this is true, why do we feel so stumped at times? Why do we sometimes have no idea what to try or where to begin? Well, there can be several factors contributing to this, but a big one you may not have considered is what I’m calling an ambiguity problem. Stay tuned to learn what this is and how to spot it so you can get back to finding solutions.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Hello, everybody. How are we doing today? As I record this episode, I am, as soon as I finish this, going to be heading out to the airport to catch a flight down to Southern California, where I’m going to be teaching our small group, 25 people. We only sold 25 seats to this one, doing a workshop called Navigating Conflict with Confidence. And we’re going to spend the whole day together and then we’re going to take the recordings and turn it into a workshop for everyone in The Lab, which I will supplement with live coaching.

So I’m so excited. I have so many fun things planned for this day and I’m so excited to see those of you that are coming. I picked this topic because it’s an election year in the United States. And it’s looking like it might be a little bit of a dramatic election. That’s my guess, that’s my thought.

And I just love, Governor Cox is heading up an initiative called How to Disagree Better. And I was really inspired by it and some of the things I’ve been learning and studying. Because not only on a larger global scale would it be useful for us to be able to handle conflict better, but it helps within our personal lives, our families, our working relationships. And even our relationship with ourself improves when we learn these skills. So get ready if you’re in The Lab, get excited about that coming soon.

So today I want to talk about this thing that I see come up a lot in coaching that I’m calling an ambiguity problem. So what happens is oftentimes somebody comes on to the coaching call and they tell me what they’re struggling with or what they want coaching on. And they describe it with a lot of ambiguity, which is not wrong in and of itself. We all usually start out there, when we’re even just talking to a friend, because what we’re doing is, we’re sort of summarizing what’s going on. We’re summarizing patterns that we’ve noticed.

And we’re trying to be efficient in our communication by putting it into one or two sentences. So being ambiguous like this is not wrong in and of itself. I just want to bring it to your attention because there will be times when it’s going to prevent you from making the progress you want to. So for example, people will come on the call and this is kind of what triggered me to or prompted me, I should say, to want to make this episode is our coaching call from yesterday in The Lab, which was the February 21st. It was an evening coaching call we did.

So if anybody wants to go check out the replay in The Lab, go find February 21st. But what happened is a woman that I coached was giving me a lot of ambiguous statements. So she came on and she said, “I’ve just really been neglecting my own self-care.” Notice how when she says that, I don’t really know exactly what she means by that. Well, she definitely has a much better idea than I do, but it’s a broad, ambiguous statement, I’ve been neglecting self-care.

She also in the same coaching session said to me, “I’m just not being intentional with my parenting.” Notice how vague and ambiguous that is. We all have a million interpretations of what that might mean. Other things I hear people say a lot when I’m coaching entrepreneurs, they tend to give me a lot of ambiguities, like, “My business isn’t succeeding or it’s not growing, or my marketing isn’t working or I’m not working enough. I’m not following through. I’m not putting forth enough effort.”

These are ambiguous, vague, broad statements that could mean all kinds of things. People often say to me really ambiguous statements about relationships like, “My marriage is just really hard, or my mother and I have always had a really difficult relationship, a really strained relationship.” Sometimes people talk about this with regards to their health goals. They’ll say things like, “I’ve just gained a lot of weight or I eat emotionally. I’m an emotional eater.”

Again, I know kind of what these statements mean, but I don’t know exactly what any of these looks like in somebody else’s life if they say this statement to me. And the reason we do it is because like I said, our amazing brains recognize patterns, summarize them into a statement like this, “I’m a people pleaser. I have a problem with people pleasing or I have a hard time saying no or I’m not comfortable dealing with conflict.” Notice these are all vague things that could mean a lot of things, and they’re all thoughts.

None of these are facts. That’s the first thing that’s really important to notice. When we have something vague and ambiguous it doesn’t go in the circumstance line of our model, because it is vague and ambiguous and could be interpreted in 100 million different ways most likely, any of them.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Make Peace with Food, a four week challenge with me, Jody Moore. When I think about the percentage of my thoughts in my lifetime that have been about food or my body, it makes me cringe. What a waste. Can you relate? Did you know that you don’t have to live this way for the rest of your life? It’s true. Or maybe you have health goals you haven’t been able to achieve and maintain. But you know you still have a lot of food and body drama preventing you from eating and living the way you need to achieve them.

Whatever your goals are, I want to invite you to join me for Make Peace with Food. You’ll learn things like how to decide what you want from food. How to navigate cravings and urges. What to do when you fall off the wagon or when you’ve been really good and how to be in it for the long game, and more. It’s our next deep dive workshop in The Lab, so Lab members will be able to participate already. But if you’re not in The Lab, you can join the challenge for just $29.

Yeah, for 29 bucks, you’ll get multiple video lessons from me each of the four weeks and live Zoom calls weekly where you can bring questions and get coaching. If you’ve been looking for something new to motivate you to make peace with food, consider this your sign, it’s time. Head to jodymoore.com/food to join today. That’s jodymoore.com/food. I’ll see you there.

So the reason I’m pointing this out to you is because again, when you guys bring me a statement like this on the coaching call, it’s totally fine. I’m not saying not to start your coaching session this way. But what I immediately begin doing is trying to get specific. I start asking you questions or I just keep listening. Sometimes you’ll keep talking and you’ll tell me more about what you mean by this. You’ll give me examples hopefully. If not, I’ll ask you usually for examples. And that is not just because I need it to coach you.

It’s because we both need it, you and I, you as my client and me as your coach, we both need it in order to figure out the best way to approach this challenge. So even if we want to go all the way to action line advice, what I mean by that is, those of you in The Lab know that we spend a lot of time coaching around your thoughts and your feelings. But we also coach on the action line. We also talk about what you might want to do or what you might try.

So thoughts, feelings and actions are where we’re spending our time so that we can create the results that we want. So I don’t like to ignore or skip the thought and feeling part. I like to make sure that’s included, but that doesn’t mean we don’t talk about actions. I’ll even offer suggestions. But my point is, even if we weren’t going to cover the thought and feeling, if we were going to go right to the action, what you should try. It’s really tough to know what to do when we have this ambiguous statement.

For example, the woman I was coaching last night who said, “I just have been neglecting self-care. I’ve been putting myself last.” I said, “Okay”, this was after a few minutes of the discussion. I’m like, “Tell me what that means. What are you not doing that you want to be doing? Or what are you doing that you need to stop doing?” And she said to me, “Well, for example, I get an average of five to six hours of sleep a night and I need more than that.”

So notice how different these two statements are. I neglect self-care and put myself last feels really big. It’s sort of hard for the brain to know where to even begin. If my friend tells me that she does this, if I’m not coaching someone, if it’s a friend and she tells me this. I’m going to offer sympathy. Maybe that’s all she wants. Maybe she just wants some validation. But if she says to me, “I get only five to six hours of sleep a night and I need more.” Now, I immediately have some ideas for her. I may have more questions, which I did with this woman when we were coaching.

I said, “What is going on? Are you not going to bed when you want to be going to bed? Are you going to bed but you’re waking up a lot and you’re not able to sleep? Say more about why you’re getting five to six hours when you want and need more.” And as she dives in and explains things like, “Well, I tend to go to bed but then I wake-up and when I wake-up and can’t get back to sleep then I just get up and I start doing projects.”

Now what is the solution to this? I don’t know exactly, but immediately I have some ideas. I bet as you listen, you have some ideas. I bet you have things that she can try, maybe things that you’ve tried if you’ve struggled with this. I have some supplements I take that help me sleep. I have certain things that if I do wake-up seem to make it harder to go back to sleep and other things that might make it easier.

We start having tons of ideas and even if we don’t have ideas, we could go to the internet or we could call a friend or a doctor or somebody and say, “This is the situation, I’m going to bed at whatever is a reasonable time. I wake-up though, and I can’t go back to sleep and I’m only getting five to six hours. I’d like to get eight hours of sleep a night”, or whatever. Now we have a problem that our amazing brains can go to work solving. Do you see how different those two statements are?

How about this, she also said, “I’m not being intentional with my parenting.” And we talked about that and that was kind of a whole other, that was her comparing herself to someone else who used that phrase, intentional parenting. And she suddenly went, “I don’t think I’m being intentional with my parenting.” I was like, “Well, what are you not doing, again that you want to be doing or what are you doing that you want to stop doing?”

That’s a much better question to ask yourself once you get this ambiguous problem happening, because when you can hone in on, I want to go on a one-on-one outing with each of my kids. Now, we can suddenly start wrapping our head around, what are the challenges preventing that and how do we overcome those challenges? Is it a planning issue? Is it a time issue? Is it an ideas of what to do issue? Is it a money that we think we need on those outings, issue? All of these things are not that difficult to solve.

We can come up with lots of ideas, but I’m not being intentional with my parenting. That’s really hard to solve because it’s so vague. It’s so ambiguous. See what I’m saying? Let’s talk about the business examples I gave you. My marketing isn’t working. What in the world does that even mean? What part of your marketing isn’t working? Because the way I market anyway is in several stages. I want to serve people. I want to find people who don’t know what I teach, that want to learn it, that are struggling. I want to offer them some relief.

I want to get their feedback about whether or not it’s helpful. I want to invite them to come and get more help. There’s so many phases, so many steps of marketing that I don’t even know what that means when somebody says to me, “My marketing isn’t working.” Is the whole thing not working? And so with business it’s easier because we go in and we look at metrics. We look at conversion numbers. We look at all the steps along the way.

Oftentimes what’s happening is the person doesn’t even have a whole funnel built out, if you’re doing that kind of marketing. And it doesn’t even have to be hardcore, let’s run an ad and send somebody through this process. Your funnel may be through word of mouth or through a referral. But what exactly is going on in your business? What is the specific problem? Because if you can identify a specific problem, you can start finding specific solutions. You can first of all put your amazing brain to work on finding a specific solution.

You can ask people better questions because you know what the problem is you’re trying to solve. You can get on the internet and find better answers because you’re asking better questions. I actually had this happen now that I think about it in one of my coaching calls. I have a business coach I’m working with and he asked all of us on a group call this week to identify what is the main problem in your business right now. And what I noticed is that my brain was still in this very ambiguous state.

I had a really hard time articulating exactly what the problem is, which means that’s why we’re not finding solutions. If we aren’t clear about the problem, it’s going to be much harder to find a clear solution. So it requires your brain working harder than it’s going to want to if you’re anything like me. My brain just wants to be like, I don’t even know what the problem is. That’s why I’m so frustrated because I don’t even know. If I knew the problem, then I would go to work, but I don’t even know what it is.

That’s what my brain wants to tell me because it does not want to do the hard work of thinking. And maybe having to look some things up and maybe having to pull some numbers and asking other people on my team to help me provide the information that I don’t even know where to find. And then analyzing that information and making some guesses.

That’s a thing, we don’t always know what the problem is exactly for sure, but we can make a guess about a specific thing and say, “I feel like if this specific challenge were something we could tackle or improve upon, it would help with the overall problem.” So that’s the other thing, we’re afraid to get it wrong. But the alternative is, we just spin in this ambiguous confusion.

Again with relationships, my marriage is really hard. When somebody says that to me, I’m like, “Okay, tell me more.” And usually they’ll start giving me more specific information, and again, at some point I always ask for a specific example. Because even as the person starts talking it through with me and saying out loud, “Well, the problem is my spouse and I don’t talk about anything that feels very deep or connecting or interesting to me. We have a lot of surface level conversations right now and it feels like we’re not really seeing or hearing each other. It feels like we are a little bit living different lives.”

Well, if that’s the case, don’t you start having a lot of ideas you could offer this person? Again as the person says it to me out loud, they even start going, “I mean, I know we probably need to be better about having a date night. And I know I should sit down and have a conversation. And I know I might be reading too much into something and so I should take a look at my own thoughts about all of this.” They immediately start telling me the solutions that they are aware of. We don’t consider them when we just settle for the ambiguous summary our brains give us of my marriage is really hard.

We talked a little bit about health and weight. People say this to me a lot, “I’ve just gained a lot of weight or I lost weight but then I gained it all back.” “Okay, tell me more specifically.” And we could get specific with numbers. Someone could tell me they lost 50 pounds and then they gained 70 pounds back or whatever. But what I mean is, tell me specifically what are the behaviors and what are the smaller bite size problems that are leading to this bigger problem for you? Is it, I stopped exercising?

I used to exercise or I used to go for walks or whatever and now I don’t do that, and if so, why is that? And let’s examine that because if we realize, my job changed and I work different hours now. And I used to exercise at this time, that was my habit and then I stopped doing it. Then we can suddenly put our brains to work on, so how am I going to solve this problem? How am I going to keep putting in the time at the job I want and be able to fit in exercise? That’s actually a really simple problem to solve.

And again, here’s the interesting thing about our brains is, our brains would just much rather stay in ambiguity because then we don’t actually have to do anything about it, in some cases. That’s what I notice with my brain anyway, we’ll just be confused about this. We’ll just keep describing it in this ambiguous way. Because then when people do offer solutions, have you noticed this? You give an ambiguous problem. People offer a solution and you’re like, “No, because of x, y, z, that won’t work.”

And it’s because they didn’t clearly understand the problem because we didn’t give them a clear descriptor of it. So they’re trying to solve for a piece of that big, ambiguous problem that isn’t even the piece you’re struggling with. So get more specific about what the problem is, you’ll be able to find a specific solution. I eat emotionally. I’m an emotional eater is a very ambiguous, vague, big, hard to solve problem.

But most days at three o’clock, I feel restless and tired and then I go have a snack, even though I’m not hungry and it’s not serving my health goals in the end. Suddenly I can think of 10 possible solutions to that, can you? Can you talk to people about good news? What we need to do is plan something every day at three that gives you some relief from the stress or the exhaustion or whatever, that gives you a break that isn’t food. Here are seven ideas I could think of.

Call a friend, go for a walk at that time, take a little nap, go drink water at that time, whatever. There are so many simple solutions when we really nail down the problem. So again, sometimes I notice that you guys take the tools I give you and you use them against yourself. And you’ll start noticing yourself have an ambiguous problem come up. Either you’re saying it out loud or you’re thinking it in your mind, and then you go, “Oh, I’m not supposed to do that, Jody told me not to do that.”

So I just want to be very clear. I’m not telling you not to do it. We all do it. It’s human nature. The brain wants to save energy. The brain is actually a really amazing skill that we can summarize a whole bunch of specific things into one intelligent statement. So it’s not a bad thing. It’s just if you’re feeling really stuck. If you’re just like, “I don’t really know what to do. I’m tired of this challenge or problem. I want to find a solution.” Because sometimes we’re not ready to find a solution yet.

So when you’re ready to find a solution, when you’re tired of feeling stuck and you notice you don’t have any ideas and you’re not finding good ideas, you’re not getting good ideas from people you talk to. You’re not finding useful things show up in your line of sight, just in your world. Then ask yourself, have I described this problem for myself in an ambiguous way? And if so, how do I get more specific? How do I whittle it down to, it might be a series of small, simple, specific problems, things that I’m doing that I want to stop doing or things I’m not doing that I want to start doing.

And then what are the challenges in getting myself to do those things? That’s where sometimes your thoughts and feelings are going to come in. And then we execute. So all problems are figured out-able thanks to Marie Forleo for that word. Everything is figure out-able, but if we don’t understand the problem it will be much harder to find the solution. Keep an eye out for this.

And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Again, if you have a question or a comment, don’t forget we have a podcast hotline where you can call and leave me a message. I get all of those messages. And it is 1888 hi Jody M, 1888 hi Jody M. Send me a message. I’d love to hear from you. Alright, have a good one.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post 451. Ambiguity Problems appeared first on Jody Moore.

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How much of your time and energy are spent thinking about food? If you’re like most women, it’s probably a much higher percentage than you’d like, and as someone who can relate to the rollercoaster that is thinking about food and my body, I know how exhausting it can be.

That’s why, over the last four or five years, I’ve been focused on making peace with food and my health in general. I’ve made huge leaps in the process, I’m lightyears ahead of where I was when I first started this work, I’ve gotten healthier, both in my head about food and my body, as well as in my lifestyle and habits, and I’m sharing some of my insights with you on this episode.

If you want to think about food less and reach your health goals, this episode is for you. I’m diving into the main concepts I had to master to experience more peace around food and my body, the questions you must ask yourself about the role food plays in your life, and my top tips for making big strides toward your end goal.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The main concepts I had to master to experience peace around food. * What has helped me think about food and my body differently. * How our thoughts about food are just stories. * Why you must consciously choose the role you want food to play in your life. * What to do with cravings and urges around food. * How I’ve made huge strides in my mindset and habits around food.

Mentioned on the Show:

I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!
I’ve written a book to introduce thought work in a way children will understand called Carl and Sophia and Your Amazing Brain, illustrated by my talented daughter Macy!
Come check out Be Bold
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Brad Jensen
Jenn Pinnell
Brittney Zeedik
Jessie Inchauspé

Welcome to episode 450, Making Peace with Food.

What percentage of your thoughts are about food or bodies, what you’re going to eat for your next meal, whether or not you should have a snack, what you ate earlier and how you shouldn’t have eaten it? If you’re like most people, especially women, it’s an embarrassingly high percentage of thoughts you have around food and it’s exhausting. Today’s episode is for you if you want to think about food less and still be healthy and strong. Let’s do it.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to our podcast episode. Thanks for joining me today. As always, I want to give you a quick reminder that we have a podcast hotline. So if you have a comment or a question about what you hear either today or ever or just a general life question, I’m loving so much hearing the questions that come in. And we’re going to be doing more episodes where we address questions. So you can send those in any time to 1888 hi Jody M. That’s Jody with a Y and M as in Moore, 888 hi Jody M and leave me a message.

And we might play your question on the podcast if we think it would be really helpful to the larger audience, but even if we don’t, I will be listening to it. So please feel free to call in and talk with me.

Today we’re going to talk about making peace with food. And of course, the reason I want to talk about this is because it’s something I have been working on, well, it feels like my whole life. But I put a bunch of extra effort in over the last three or four years off and on. I should say I haven’t non-stop been focused on it, but I worked with Brad Jensen for about a year, during the pandemic and made huge leaps in my mindsets around food and my habits around food and my health in general.

And then I started working earlier this year with Jen Pinnell, who also works for Key Nutrition with Brad. And I am just kind of adding on now to the work that I did with Brad and it’s been amazing. And on top of all that, I recently got some lab work back saying that I’m pre diabetic, which is not surprising to me. I have just a lot of health history and things that led me to believe that that was headed my way if I didn’t change my habits a little bit.

And so that’s actually put what I think is some really healthy pressure on me to really master this topic and really get healthier both in my head about food and bodies and also in my lifestyle and my habits. So I think that the best coaches out there probably do this from time to time. I hope anyway that we treat ourselves like our own first client and we figure out ways that work for us and then we offer them and share them to others. Not to say it’s the only way, but we pay attention first and foremost to ourselves.

And as we get some mastery around ourselves, we’re able to offer that to others. And that’s what I’m going to be doing for you here a little bit today. So I want to talk to you about the main concepts that I feel like for me, I had to master to get to peace around food. And I want to be careful about talking about this as though I’m done, I did this, yay, look at me. Because that’s not the case although I am light years ahead of where I was four or five years ago.

And I feel like I’m starting to embody this stuff now, and it’s starting to become part of who I am and part of my habits and routines. That doesn’t mean by any means that I don’t still have to focus on it and work on it. And maybe I’ll have to my whole life.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Make Peace with Food, a four week challenge with me, Jody Moore. If you want to learn more about today’s podcast topic and you want help applying it in your life, don’t miss this. It’s our next deep dive workshop in The Lab, so Lab members will be able to participate already. But if you’re not in The Lab, you can join the challenge for just $29. Yeah, for 29 bucks, you’ll get multiple video lessons from me each of the four weeks and live Zoom calls weekly where you can bring questions and get coaching.

If you’ve been looking for something new to motivate you to make peace with food, consider this your sign, it’s time. Head to jodymoore.com/food to join today. That’s jodymoore.com/food. I’ll see you there.

I think that one of the first things I want to tackle is the way we think about food in general. What I mean by that is, are you categorizing food in sort of a moral way? Do you make certain foods good and other foods bad in a heavy way? I have never found that to be useful myself. I do know a couple of people who find it to really serve them to just put certain foods on a blacklist and never eat them and say those are off limits. But I myself have never been able to maintain that for very long.

And instead of making my life simpler, it has stirred up a whole bunch of other drama and thoughts in my head. And so what has helped me a lot more is to decide that there is no food that’s off limit, actually. And there’s not good food and bad food. There’s just food that exists in the world. And I would just offer to you to try that on. I have a lot more to say about that, a lot more to teach you about how to wrap your head around that.

If you grew up or at least have been socialized in some way in a world that has said these foods are good and these foods are bad, I’ll tell you how to unwind that, but just understanding that they’re just stories. Food is good and food is bad. That’s just a story. Food is neutral, food is just food, there’s no good food and bad food. That’s another story. These are all stories. Stories are optional. What we want to do is find the stories that serve you best to achieve whatever you’re trying to achieve, both in your peace of mind and in your habits around food.

The next thing that I want to teach you is to make decisions about the role you want food to play in your life. All of us by nature, being human beings, are subject to needing food as fuel. So it’s going to need to play the role of fuel in your life. And I can’t imagine any reason why you wouldn’t want it to. But what other roles do you want it to play in your life? And what roles does it play in your life right now? Is food your best friend? Is food your entertainment?

Is food your way of celebrating? Is food your escape? And PS, I’m not saying any of these things are wrong. I just want you to choose it consciously and decide what role you want food to play in your life. You might choose that you want it to be your Friday night bestie. I’m in. You might choose that you want it to be the way that you connect with family and friends. By the way, you can choose these things and still achieve health the way that you want to, I do believe.

Obviously you can’t just probably eat anything you want without paying attention, but there are ways to create exactly what you want in your life. And if you want food to serve as some form of pleasure or joy, I’m in. I personally do like it too. I have stopped the argument in my head that I used to try to have around it shouldn’t be my joy. It shouldn’t be my escape. It shouldn’t be pleasure. It should just be fuel. I could never get there in my head.

And instead now I choose consciously the role that I want food to play and then I make decisions and take actions accordingly. And I’m going to teach you how to make those decisions if you want to come and get more help from me, which again I will tell you about in just a moment.

The next thing I’m going to have you understand is what to do with cravings and urges. And I want to say a little bit more about this particular topic because I have a unique way of thinking about cravings and urges. And this is just my own way of thinking about it. But I like to think of cravings as biology. I get hungry sometimes because of biology. There is a hormone released in my body that tells me it’s time to eat, that is biology. And I have the craving for food.

I get sugar cravings sometimes because of biology, because of, I don’t know, insulin resistance or whatever you want to call it. Well, it’s low blood sugar that gives us sugar cravings. That is biology. Maybe you are this person because this is not uncommon. Many people I talk to who are trying to change their eating habits will say things like, “Well, I’m not really hungry”, when they eat on their meal plan, if they’re trying to reduce their food intake and they’re trying to lose some body fat or something.

And they’ll say, “I don’t really get hungry, I just want more food.” And I always think well, that would be nice because I do get hungry. Whenever I try to restrict calories or eat less sugar or whatever, I feel hungrier. I get cravings. And of course then I also get urges. So I think of cravings as being biology, urges are psychology, in other words, urges are coming from my thoughts or from not wanting to feel my feelings. Urges are like I should just go have a snack because I don’t really want to work on the thing I’m supposed to work on next.

Or I really want to eat ice-cream because everyone else is eating ice-cream and I don’t want to miss out on ice-cream. But I don’t have that low blood sugar kind of craving necessarily. I just have the mental desire, which then can translate actually into emotions and feels similar to the biology, but it’s starting in the head and then traveling the body. Instead of a craving that starts in the body and travels to the head and says, “I need or want this thing.” Are you with me?

So I want you to understand both and to pay attention to both and of course there’s a lot of overlap. When we have a craving, we have an urge. But they need to be addressed appropriately and they both, if you struggle with both of them, they both require attention. I used to really only, mostly pay attention to urges because I understand psychology. That’s the world I live in is the what’s happening in your mind. It wasn’t until I started diving deeper on a deeper level, I shouldn’t say I didn’t do any work around cravings.

I do understand the importance of protein and things like that. But I gained sort of a deeper understanding of what is causing my blood sugar to rise and fall and I’m continuing to learn about that actually, on a personal individual level. But I mean on an overall level, nutritional level, as I’ve learned more about hormones and how fiber plays a role and the timing of your food and things like that, how that plays a role with cravings. It’s made it so much easier to manage my urges because they both, when they get doubled up, feel really tough to navigate.

The next thing I want you to think about if you want to make peace with food is this idea of falling off the wagon or being really good. Let’s say you decide this is how I’m going to eat. This is what will serve me in the long run. This is what will help me with whatever your health goals are. And then some days you ‘fall off the wagon’ and other days you’re like, “I’ve been really good today.” I don’t find either of those to be useful ways to think about what’s going on.

What I’m going to encourage you to do is to stop making everything so dramatic, to get off the roller-coaster of all or nothing. Because when we tell ourselves we’ve fallen off the wagon, then it’s like, well might as well just eat whatever we want now. Can you relate to this? And when we tell ourselves, “Well, I’ve been really good”, then what we’re saying is, “So I deserve a break. I deserve a piece of chocolate cake”, which is going to just sabotage all of the good eating I just did all day.

So I’m going to talk to you about how to navigate those two mindsets, why they’re so powerful. And I want to encourage you to question them. And what we want to do is get off the roller-coaster and just be on rolling hills of, yeah, that was disappointing and that was cool. But it doesn’t need to be a roller-coaster of high and low. When you don’t eat on plan, it’s okay, it really is. You don’t need to beat yourself up about it. You don’t need to get all dramatic and upset about it.

And when you do eat on plan, it’s great, but it’s not something that we have to celebrate. And if you are restricting and doing what we kind of call white knuckling it in order to eat on plan, then that’s going to be a problem. That’s why you’re going to feel like you need relief from it. So that’s something you’ve got to dive in and learn how to not restrict, but just allow urges. But there’s no such thing as falling off the wagon because there’s no wagon. And there’s no such thing as being really good because you’re not good or bad based on what you eat.

You just already are an amazing, complicated person who is both good and bad, weak and strong and whether or not you ate on plan, doesn’t change that. So we’ve got to keep a healthy perspective on that.

Lastly, I want you to be in it for the long game. This has been so essential for me to clean up my drama around food, to make peace with food. I have to remind myself that I am a 49 year old woman. I’ve been working on this, like I said, really consistently now for about four years. So let’s just say up until I was 45. I have 45 years of developing certain eating habits and certain mindsets and being socialized in certain ways around food and bodies.

And if I think that I’m going to reverse all that in three months, I’m fooling myself. It’s going to take longer, but isn’t that what we ultimately want? Don’t we want to ultimately not have to put so much focus on this, not have to think about food and bodies all the time, not have it take up such a huge percentage of our thoughts? I’ll tell you how I know I’ve made huge strides in this, because for me the thoughts are the most prevalent, the most dramatic when I’m on vacation.

When I go on vacation with my friends or my family, I don’t know if it’s because I have a lot more free time, I’m not busy focusing on work. Maybe it’s because I’m in a swimsuit many times. I like to travel to tropical places where I’m in a swimsuit, people around me are in swimsuits. Maybe it’s because we’re eating out a lot more when we’re traveling. But when we’re on vacation, I have the most noise and drama about food and bodies. And the last couple of vacations I have been on, I have noticed that there’s just not the same percentage of thoughts about either of those subjects.

I can’t say I don’t think about it at all, but the percentage of thoughts about food and about my body and, of course, as that percentage has gone down, as the drama has gone down so has the all or nothing behaviors around food. The restricting or really overeating has minimized as well. And a lot of us think that once we can get our eating habits in order and we can get our body to a certain point, then we’ll be able to think in a healthy way about them.

But for me and everyone else I’ve worked with, it has to be the opposite. I have worked on my mindset about food and about bodies, which has made it easier to then get my eating habits under control and my body ends up healthier and leaner and all the things I want it to be stronger as well.

So listen, come and join me. I am going to do a four week challenge because I’m so on fire about this topic right now. I’ve been learning from the Glucose Goddess who you can follow on Instagram. I have been learning from and talking a little bit too, and buying some fiber supplements from my friend, Brittany who is Mind body Brit on Instagram and you can go look her up too. These are great people.

As I’ve implemented all this and I’ve worked with my coach, Jen and I’ve added on to what I learned from Brad and I’ve used all the coaching tools that I already understand as a coach. I am so excited about this topic because I feel hopeful. I feel like I am so close to embodying all of this. And I feel hopeful that it’s possible for anyone who truly desires it. So I’m doing a four week challenge. It’s only 29 bucks and it’s called Make Peace with Food.

And I’m going to give you a couple of video lessons each week that will give you specific things to do and then I’m going to be available live every week on Zoom as well for you to come and bring questions, tell me how it’s going. I want to celebrate your wins. I want to hear what you’re struggling with. I want to coach you around anything you’re not sure how to implement. For 29 bucks four weeks, we’ll be spending together.

Now, if you’re in The Lab, this is going to be our deep dive workshop in The Lab. So you will already get to participate. You’ll get all the content. You’ll get to come to the coaching calls live. You don’t need to worry about signing up for this. But this is the first time I’ve ever done this where I’m going to let people who are not in The Lab just pay 29 bucks just to join this four week challenge. And my team and I have put so much work into it. I’m so excited about the progress that I know you’ll be able to make if you implement it.

And so you can head to jodymoore.com/food and sign up today because we start in just a couple of weeks. So again, jodymoore.com/food. I cannot wait to hear what’s going on for you around this topic. I promise you it is possible. I promise you, there’s tremendous relief available to you. And whether you’re trying to lose weight or you just don’t want to have all this chatter or you need to gain weight or you’re trying to gain muscle or whatever your end goal is, these tools can help you get there. So I will see you at Make Peace with Food, our four week challenge coming up.

Thanks for joining me today everyone, I’ll see you next time.

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Have you ever been given the advice to just stop caring about what other people think of you, only to think, “Yes, that would help, but I don’t know how?”

As humans, we are wired to be accepted by the tribe. At one point in our evolution, being rejected by other people literally meant death. So, if you struggle with the torment of other people’s thoughts and opinions, and it’s impacting your ability to experience the world in the way you want, know that it’s coming from a healthy place. And there’s a lot we can do to work on our fearful brains.

Tune in this week for a deep dive into why it’s so challenging to let go of what other people think, and most importantly, how to take charge of your brain and redirect it in a more useful way. You’re hearing coaching with real-life challenges on this topic, and my two-fold approach for managing our fear-based brains.

I’m inviting you to our brand-new podcast hotline where you can call in and ask me a question. Call 888-HI-JODY-M or 888-445-6396 to leave me your question, and I can’t wait to address it right here on the podcast!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why it’s challenging to let go of what other people think of you. * How to take charge of the fear-based part of your brain. * A two-fold approach for letting go of other people’s thoughts and opinions.

Mentioned on the Show:

Coaching changed my life and I’ve watched it change the lives of thousands of men and women since. But is it right for you? You’ll only know by giving it a try. Try it out today by clicking here.
I’ve written a book to introduce thought work in a way children will understand called Carl and Sophia and Your Amazing Brain, illustrated by my talented daughter Macy!
Come check out Be Bold
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
Grab the Podcast Roadmap!
Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Check out this episode on my YouTube channel

Welcome to episode 449, Coaching with Jody: How to Let Go of What Other People Think.

Have you ever been given the advice, just stop caring about what other people think of you and thought to yourself, yes, that would help a lot but there’s just one problem, I’m not sure how. In fact, I’ve tried to do this in the past but seems to be a problem still. Well, I’m so thrilled to bring you today’s episode because it’s going to be a deep dive lesson in just why that’s useful and okay to do but the how. And we use real coaching with real people and real challenges to go deeper. Let’s do this.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m Jody Moore and I’ll be your coach today.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to today’s episode. I have a great coaching segment. I think it’s going to be relevant to so many of you listening if you ever find that you want to work on not letting other people’s thoughts and opinions of you affect you so much. It’s a challenging thing to do. It is wired within us to be accepted by the tribe. That is a primal need and desire we have. It comes, according to psychologists, it comes from our basic primal need to survive.

At one point it was necessary that we live in tribes. Maybe we would say it still is even today, but certainly it really was at one point. If you were rejected from the tribe, then you may not have warmth, you may not have safety, you may not have access to food, you literally may die. Not to mention we need one another to reproduce and further our species. So it’s really a primal thing.

So if you struggle with this, and we all do at times, but if you struggle more than what you think is reasonable and it’s impacting your ability to experience the world the way that you want to or to pursue goals the way that you want to. Then know that it’s coming from a very healthy place. And there’s a lot that we can do to work on that. And that is one of the things I love about coaching is, it takes these things that we all know are good advice and it gives you real tools for knowing how to do it.

It’s not an instant fix, and it’s not even a permanent fix. It’s not okay, I’ve done that, now, I don’t care what people think of me or I don’t let it affect me as much. It’s okay, I know how to go in and manage that fear based part of my brain. I know how to answer that part of my brain. I know how to redirect my brain in a useful way so that if it gets out of hand, I can sort of take charge of my fear based primal brain. That’s what we want to do.

We want to have the skill of taking charge of your primal brain. And that requires that we slow everything down, we look at what’s really happening in there. And we then have some tools and things that we can go to, to practice getting better at again managing that lower brain. So you’re going to see that in today’s coaching episode.

I want to thank the woman who got coached on this call. She knows who she is, and I’m so appreciative of her for being vulnerable and willing to get coached in this way because it will help all of us. Please enjoy.

Jenna: Okay, I would love some help with my bullying brain. It is so harsh. It’s funny because I’ve done a lot of body image work. And so I am actually really good at not bullying my body, but I feel like it’s switched to other things. And especially I’ve noticed when it’s in front of other people. And [inaudible] I pride myself, well, not pride, but I used to, I mean I care what other people think but that never influenced what I did. And so it’s just surprising to me that it seems to care so much about what other people think of me and I’m just trying to figure out how to calm that down.

Jody: Okay, can you give me an example when you noticed this?

Jenna: So just recently, well, every time I bear my testimony in church. I sit down and go over all the things I have said wrong and the things I brought to say and how that sounded dumb and that probably didn’t make sense. And that probably made people think this about me and it just goes over and over and over for weeks.

Jody: Okay, you get up, you say a few things at the mic in church, bear your testimony. And then you sit down and you start running through the list of things you said wrong. And you said this is about what it might make other people think.

Jenna: I feel like that’s it because it usually happens the worst if it’s in front of [crosstalk].

Jody: Yeah, that makes sense. So what are we afraid of, what might people think?

Jenna: That I’m full of myself. That I’m dumb. That I don’t know what I’m talking about. That, that didn’t make sense. What’s she talking about? Trying to think specifically. This last time I said, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. And then because it was automatic and I’m like, “Oh, did I say that right?” I turned to the bishop and I’m like, “Did I say that?” Anyway, so there was just kind of this embarrassing, I didn’t even know how to end it.

Jody: Okay, and so people might think what?

Jenna: She’s stupid. She doesn’t know how to end.

Jody: I believe she didn’t know that.

Jenna: She doesn’t know how to end a testimony, or I don’t know, which logically I know they most likely aren’t, but [crosstalk].

Jody: Yeah. Okay, so there’s two things I like to do in a situation like this, where the brain is going crazy of what maybe people think. And sometimes, first of all, my guess is, nobody came up to you afterwards and was like, “Pretty full of yourself up there, don’t you think?” You don’t have any valid proof, actually, that anyone thinks this. It’s all in your head. But sometimes we do have valid proof.

At least, if you’re like me and you’re posting things on Instagram or whatever. Sometimes people downright tell you that they think you’re full of yourself and you’re dumb and you don’t know what you’re doing. So just for everybody listening, whether you have proof or not, it’s the same approach and it’s twofold. First of all, I like to remind my bullying brain that there are also probably a lot of lovely thoughts that people might have had about me when I got up there.

Jenna: Yeah, more likely.

Jody: What are some of the more pleasant, positive thoughts that people might have had about you?

Jenna: Well, I mean, several people actually did thank me for bearing my testimony and said that they really appreciated it.

Jody: Why do we thank each other? This is an interesting thing we do in the LDS church. Thanks for your testimony. And I think it’s great. Why do we do that? What do we mean by thank you?

Jenna: I bore my testimony about the Book of Mormon and Scripture. And so maybe it reminded them of the importance of reading the Book of Mormon regularly here.

Jody: It’s because they [crosstalk] in some way, feel something or think something or remember something or consider something that they find to be useful. That was interesting. I haven’t thought about it that way or that’s a good reminder or something, or you might have helped them feel the Spirit by sharing what you shared. So they might have thought that, what else, positive things might they have thought?

Jenna: They might have just been glad I went up so that they didn’t feel like they had to go up or somebody [crosstalk].

Jody: Thanks, Jenna, now I don’t have to feel like I should stand up and say something. Yeah. Notice how challenging this is for you. This tells me we’ve got some work to do because you rattled off five negative ones easily. And they’re all actually kind of a stretch to think that people are actually thinking that but we’re going to come back to that in a minute.

Today’s episode is brought to you by The Lab. If when you hear these coaching episodes, you find yourself thinking, huh, I wonder what Jody Moore would say to me about my challenge. Come and join me in The Lab. A $59 a month gym for your mental and emotional health where we experiment with the concepts from the podcast until we can fine tune the way that you can use them to create any result you want in your life, yes, any result is possible. Join me in The Lab today at jodymoore.com/thelab.

We’re currently accepting new members, and I think you should be one of them. That’s jodymoore.com/thelab. I’ll see you there.

The positive ones, two things neither of which were actually even really about you. The negative ones are all about you. She’s so full of herself. She’s dumb. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about. The positive ones are, it made me feel good and it made me feel like I don’t need to stand up. So just let your wild imagination, because we all have wild imaginations, play in the positive side too.

I’ll tell you what I like to do. Again, if I’m coaching myself in a scenario like this, I’m like, “Yes, it could be true.” We’ll come back to this idea that there are all these negative things that could be true. But also, I bet you somebody liked what I was wearing today. Somebody probably noticed how cute my dress is. Somebody probably liked my hair. Somebody probably liked that story I shared about this thing. Somebody probably thought I sounded smart. Somebody probably liked the way I worded this thing. Do you know what I’m saying?

Jenna: Yeah, that sounds so hard. And I’ve recognized that myself that that feels like pride to me even though I don’t know it, even though I know it’s not. I think I grew up thinking to be humble you have to downplay your strengths and not compliment yourself.

Jody: Okay, this is good to know. This is what I’m saying. I’m not saying you have to walk around and tell everyone that, “Doesn’t my hair look good today?” I’m saying if you can’t go there in your mind, you’ve got some work to do on your relationship with you.

Jenna: Yeah, big time.

Jody: Most of us do, we all do, so don’t feel bad about that. Just notice, it’s so easy for me to come up with all the criticism, really challenging to come up with the positives. So that means okay, so that’s the first part. If we’re going to spend time wondering what people think at all, I’m not saying you have to, by the way.

Jenna: I know, I’d like to not even think about it.

Jody: Okay, but if the brain wants to go there for some reason, and sometimes it does because we’re tribal and it’s worried we’re going to be rejected by the tribe. It’s a primal thing. So if the brain wants to go there and go, people probably thought, you’re dumb, you’re full of yourself. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You didn’t make sense and you sound stupid. I wrote those down, the thoughts you told me. Then you’re like, maybe this is the second half of this.

We’ve got to balance it out with the positive and yeah, and also brain, don’t forget, someone might have thought I sounded smart. I’m very humble. I’m very spiritual. I had something really interesting to say and I looked amazing. I mean, do you see how we balance it out? We’re not being prideful. We’re not saying we’re better than anyone else. We’re just trying to balance out that negative brain. And then the second half is to make peace with the negative part.

And put it in a realistic perspective. First of all, it’s much more likely that the majority of the people here at church today had positive thoughts as they listened to me talk. That’s the reality. That’s what the evidence shows and that’s much more likely. But it’s possible that some of them had some of these negative thoughts that I came up with and that’s okay. I’m not for everyone. Is it true, are you sometimes full of yourself and don’t know what you’re talking about and don’t make sense?

Jenna: Yeah, I’m sure.

Jody: Alright. I mean, yeah, when my brain tells me that, I’m like, “Yeah, and they’re right, at times I can be those things.” Is it also true that you’re very humble and loving and gracious and wise and smart and gorgeous and fun and is that true also?

Jenna: Sometimes, yeah.

Jody: Yeah, sometimes I’m those things too. So this whole fear we have over what people think. It’s a fear of people seeing the real us. But the real you is amazing and lovable and smart and gracious and flawed and imperfect and messes up and forgets things. We love that version of you. If you work on loving that version of you, then when your brain’s like, “No, people probably saw this.” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s the reality.”

We don’t need to hide it. It’s actually very lovable. We’re much more comfortable in it and we connect with each other actually more often anyway through our faults and our weaknesses than through our strength. So you’re working out right now, you work out?

Jenna: Yeah.

Jody: Okay. So imagine, I want you to imagine that you see somebody working out, who, for whatever reason, your guess is they haven’t worked out for a really long time. They don’t know how to use the machines. They seem uncomfortable. Maybe they’re in the weight room using the machines wrong. What’s your thought about that person?

Jenna: Well, good for them for being here and I want to help them.

Jody: It’s never, she’s so stupid. She doesn’t even know what she’s doing. And yet that’s what we think. We’re like, “I can’t go do something where will people think I’m”, well, okay most people actually think good for her. That’s awesome. It’s impressive that she’s out here doing this and she’s going to figure it out and maybe I can help her. We’re never like, “She’s so dumb and full of herself.” We only do that to ourselves.

Now, occasionally there is someone who has a great deal of pain or trauma or fear that they operate from who does think that. But okay, don’t live your life for those people.

Jenna: It’s more just learning how to turn it off because logically I know all that but it’s just my brain will not stop tormenting me in those moments.

Jody: Well, that’s why I say it’s primal. It’s your primal need to not be rejected by the tribe. So instead of trying to turn it off, just acknowledge it. I just kindly, when my brain does that, I’m like, “Yeah, it could be true. Somebody might be thinking that and it’s okay, I’m not for everyone, but also somebody might be thinking this.” And I just try to keep the balance and overall it comes down to what you think of you. That’s what this is really about.

So where I always come back to is, I love you, Jody Moore, even though it’s true, sometimes you’re dumb and you say the wrong thing and you can be kind of full of yourself. You’re also very wise, and generous, and kind. And I love all of you. And we’re just going to keep going. Tomorrow’s another day. Let’s go. Do you know what I mean? When you can do that piece, then what other people think doesn’t have to be so. It sounds like you’ve done some of that work too.

Jenna: Yeah, I think I could definitely spend more time on the good things about myself, [crosstalk] when that does happen because I don’t do much of that.

Jody: Yeah. Okay. You know what to do. Alright, thanks for coming on girl.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post 449. Coaching with Jody: How to Let Go of What Other People Think appeared first on Jody Moore.

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As an entrepreneur, I have meetings with my whole team every week. I don’t love meetings, but they’re unavoidable when you have a business. Even before I had a team to meet with, I used to have meetings with myself. I was the customer support, the graphic designer, the coach, the bookkeeper, and the salesperson, and if you’re just starting out in business, you’re probably juggling all the areas of your business too.

You need to get your ideas out of your head and planned out in a concrete, tangible way so you can trust that the things that need to happen are actually planned out. If you’re currently playing multiple roles in your business and you find yourself spinning, not knowing how best to spend your time, today’s episode is for you.

Tune in this week to learn the value of having meetings with yourself. I’m sharing what these meetings will look like, what the outcomes of these meetings with yourself should be, and I’m giving you my tips for getting clear on your thoughts about your day-to-day in your business, as well as all the big-picture stuff.

Ever wondered what I’d do if I had to start my business from scratch? I don’t worry about losing my business because I know exactly how to create a thriving six-figure business in our current economy, and I’m showing you how in an upcoming webinar called Three Components of a Successful Coaching Business. Get registered by clicking here!

I want to give away all of my best secrets, and that’s why I’ve created a free training. If you’re a coach or you want to start a similar business and are struggling to figure out how to get started, you need this training. To get it, all you have to do is click here!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What a meeting with yourself looks like and how I plan out my meetings with myself. * Some ideas for what you need to discuss with yourself in your meetings. * How to get clear on your long-term projects versus your day-to-day tasks. * Why having everything planned out on a calendar doesn’t mean you’ll follow it perfectly every time. * My tips for having productive meetings with yourself.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy Entre-Talk: Meetings With Yourself.

This is Better Than Happy, the podcast where we study what the healthiest, most successful people in today’s world think, feel and do. And we leverage this knowledge to create our best lives. Are you ready, little bird? Let’s fly.

Hey there, everybody. Tomorrow is the first of just two opportunities this week only to join me for the workshop webinar I’m going to be teaching, which I’m going to show you exactly what I would do if I had no business. If I was starting from scratch today, if I lost all of my followers, my email list, my podcast and my reputation and everything. If it all went away for some reason, or if I was just starting out today, except that I have now the knowledge and experience I have, here’s what I would do.

And it’s three simple steps. And it’s perfect for anyone that is trying to start or grow a coaching practice. Or if you’re some kind of teacher, healer, expert, that type of business that is a service-based business, I know very well. And I can help you get to six-figures, multiple six-figures, and even seven-figures with the strategy I’m going to teach you, because I’ve done that.

And I used this simple three part strategy, and I’m continuing to use it. And now I’m trying to figure out how to get beyond that. So whoever can help me, I need that. But I want to help you get to where I am and surpass me. That would be really fun, I’d love to help you surpass me.

But anyway, make sure you’ve registered for that. It’s at jodymoore.com/webinar. Like I said, I’m teaching it twice this week because I wanted to give you a couple opportunities to come live, so pick either one. We will have a replay, but it will be a limited availability replay, you’ll have to have registered to get that. So head on over to jodymoore.com/webinar.

Today, I want to talk to you about having meetings with yourself because I have meetings right now with my team. We have a meeting every week, just kind of a quick touch base of what’s going on. And then I have meetings with individuals on my team on varying frequencies depending on what they do and how often we need to talk.

And I know most people don’t like meetings. I can’t say I love meetings, they’re not my most favorite part of the job. But I think we also all understand that some meetings are necessary. Communication is necessary. The accountability happens in those meetings. Keeping everyone in the know about what’s going on, what changes are happening or what’s coming up, things like that, that’s all important.

And so some meetings are necessary, right? And it made me think about how before I had a team that I met with, I used to have meetings with myself because I was the one. I was the customer support. I was the graphic designer. Not great at it, by the way, but I did what I could. I was the coach. I was the marketing person. I was the salesperson. I was the bookkeeper.

I was all the things. You might be in that position if you’re a solopreneur, right, where you are doing all the things. So the main reason, though, that I had a meeting with myself, and I will tell you, I actually still do have meetings with myself as well because what I would do in that meeting, and I’ll tell you about, for me, the frequency and what I did and all that.

But it was like getting my head out of my head, onto something more concrete, like a piece of paper, or a planner, or a Word document or a calendar so that I could relax and trust that the things that were needing to happen, the things I wanted to see happen in my business were going to happen.

I don’t know about you, but if I don’t get it out of my head into someplace more concrete like that, there’s a good chance it’s not going to happen. I’m going to forget about it or other things are going to come up that feel more like emergencies that are going to get in the way.

And eventually I would find myself spinning in just not even knowing what to do with my time or having a little pocket of time and not wanting to do it, like I just don’t feel like doing those other things. And it’s so easy to put things off and think I’ll do it tomorrow if there’s no plan and you can’t see why certain deadlines are necessary.

I don’t know about you, but everything in my mind when I do this, when I do this meeting with myself and I put everything down, it all feels necessary to happen right away. I’m like, well, that has to happen today, or at least by the end of this week. And so does that, and so does that, and so does that. Everything feels like it needs to happen this week, which it doesn’t, by the way, but we’ll talk about that in a minute.

But then when it’s time to actually do the work, it feels like none of it needs to happen today. It’s like, you know what? I could do that tomorrow. It wouldn’t matter if I put that off a couple more days because I don’t feel like doing it right now, right?

So that kind of back and forth dissonance or battle that we have with the prefrontal brain that is thinking more long-term and big picture and strategizing. And then the default lower brain, the primitive brain that is always operating in the moment and just wants to do what sounds easy and fun. That battle gets minimized, it doesn’t go away completely. But it’s less likely to cause confusion and chaos and prevent you from achieving your goals if you have meetings with yourself regularly, if you’re anything like me.

So here’s what I do. First of all, I liked to have a meeting with myself, and this is the one that I probably don’t do now that I have a team, it’s not as necessary. But if you don’t have a team that you’re meeting with regularly, you need to probably be having a meeting with yourself maybe monthly, or at least quarterly to look at the big picture, okay?

I would, on a monthly or quarterly basis, look at what do I want to try to achieve in the next six to 12 weeks? What is the next kind of project that I’m taking on that I think might serve my business, with whatever that is that your business needs.

Maybe you’re recreating your program or your offer. Or maybe you’re creating it for the first time. Maybe you’re going to experiment with some new marketing. Or maybe it’s the same marketing, but you need a new opt in or freebie. Or maybe you’re creating some new step in your marketing funnel that you’d never tried before. Maybe it’s something you’re going to offer to your clients on the other side, once they’ve already paid. Something you want to deliver to them. Whatever it is, right?

The thing that we’re working on that we hope is going to help our business either grow or improve or become more efficient. Whatever it is that you’re trying to work on in your business, okay? So, again, I gave you some examples, but for me, in the beginning when I was first starting, those were things like I needed to get my website up and running.

And then it would become, I need to get my email service provider, I need to get one and figure out how to use it and get it set up. I need to create a couple of images. I need to have a handful of images that I can use as branding. I need to have a logo, if you want that.

I need to get a podcast. Maybe I want to launch a podcast and I want to have the first four episodes live. These are the kinds of things that as I was creating them, if they were new, then those would be my either six to 12 week projects that I’m working on, okay?

So then I would take that particular project and break it down into what are all the steps that need to happen and where are those going to go in my calendar? Let’s just take one. Let’s just say I need to get my email service provider set up so I can start growing an email list. And I need to figure out how to sync that with, I don’t know, I’m trying to think of how the technology works. There’s some tech work to be done there, right?

I need to get my freebie uploaded to that. I need to create the auto responders that are going to go out after somebody signs up for a freebie. If you don’t know what I’m talking about with some of this terminology, don’t worry, it doesn’t matter. I will teach you. Come to my webinar and I will show you how and I’m going to teach you what all of this means.

My point is there are a lot of steps involved, right? So I might just get out a piece of paper and outline, okay, what are all the steps as far as I know? That’s the thing, you get into a project and there are steps you didn’t even think of or didn’t even realize, which is fine.

As of today, I know I need to choose an email service provider. So maybe I’m going to ask three people I know who have businesses and get some opinions. Or maybe I want to just Google it for 15, 20 minutes, whatever. Give yourself a limit, okay?

Then I’m going to choose one. Then I need to go register for one. I need to spend however many hours you think it’s going to take you to figure out the technology. To maybe go through their tutorials, to figure out how to use it and get it set up. You block out that time and then you look at your calendar and go, okay, here’s where I’m going to fit that in. And put it in your calendar over the next six to 12 weeks.

I like to leave lots of cushion because I know there are going to be steps that come up that I didn’t even realize I needed to consider. So I don’t want to cram my calendar too tight. I need to have room because I want to make sure that by X date, however many weeks out you think that’s going to take you based on how many hours you have that you’re working, I’m going to have this task completed.

So those are either my monthly, I say monthly or quarterly because it would depend. When I was working more part-time when I had some kids not in school yet and things like that, my kids were a little bit younger. I liked to just work three days a week and I liked to have two days when I was just with my kids.

Now that my kids are all in school all day, I work five days a week, the hours that they’re in school. So it just changed how much I could get done in any given time based on how many hours I’m working. And so if I have a project that’s going to take me two months, once I’m working more hours, it might only take me a month. That’s why there’s a discrepancy there.

So use your best judgment, but I didn’t like to have any more than two projects like that I was working on at any given time, sometimes just one. If it felt like a big project, or it felt overwhelming to me for whatever reason, I would just have one. And it goes on my calendar so I make sure I’m working on my business, not just in my business, right?

Okay, so that’s the first meeting I recommend that you’re having with yourself. Like I said, I’m having those meetings with my team now. I actually bring my whole team to Spokane about quarterly. And we talk about what are we working on? What needs to happen from each of us to make sure we meet those objectives. And so that is happening more with my team.

But if you don’t have a team, do it with yourself. Or even if you only have one person working for you, if you have a virtual assistant or something like that, it’s not a bad idea to say, “I want to meet with you monthly or quarterly and talk about objectives,” just because it helps to have somebody to brainstorm with. It helps to have somebody to bounce ideas off of and get a little bit of input.

Okay, the other meeting, and this is the one I still do with myself, actually. I do this, I should say, with myself and my assistant a little bit as well, she helps me. But the other meeting with myself happens weekly. And I will tell you, whenever there’s a week where I don’t do this, because occasionally I blow it off, it’s a totally different week in terms of how much I get done.

It is a way less productive week, if I don’t have a meeting with myself, because I spin in, when was the last time I had a day to just myself? I need to get away. I need to get out of my house, get out of my office. All of that nonsense comes online if I don’t have this weekly meeting with myself.

In the weekly meeting with myself I begin with all of the things that are already scheduled that need to happen. Those would be things like coaching calls that are scheduled at certain times that I need to be at. Meetings that I need to attend. Maybe if I’m doing podcast interviews. Things that are scheduled with other people that are at set days and times, I put all of those onto my paper planner.

I do have an electronic planner and calendar, but I’d like to take it from that electronic calendar and put it into my paper one that I like, the one that we give out in our business program. But whatever you like. Then I take the other things that are scheduled, which would be the things that came from my monthly or quarterly meetings, right?

There are these projects or tasks that are part of projects that need to happen this week. They’re scheduled for me this week. When are those going to happen? Those go on my calendar next. And then I brainstorm all the other things that I feel like need to happen that week.

Now, there are certain things that are set that I do every week, like record a podcast, create a Take Tuesday video, create a Monday Magic video for the people in my program, right? So there are a few things that are just routine that I know. Every Monday I do that Monday video for my clients. By Tuesday we need a video. So now I have to get that done by Monday so that it can go to the person that edits it.

Anyway, so you’ve got your regular tasks. That’s not really what I’m talking about, although you have to make sure you have room for those in your schedule somewhere. What I’m talking about are the extra things, right? The additional things, like I need to prep for the talk that I’m giving whenever it is, and I need to work on that a little bit. I need to prepare for the class that’s going to be coming up next month in Be Bold and make sure that I’m working on the content for that so that it’s good and I don’t have to just figure it out at the last minute.

Sometimes I even throw in some of my personal things, like I’ve got to teach a lesson in young women’s. I need to make sure I have time for that. Maybe it’s writing emails for something happening in our business, for a funnel. We need some follow up emails to go out after this webinar. I have to make sure I get those written. Or somebody else can write them, but I needed to give them an outline of where to get started.

So any of the other tasks that aren’t regularly recurring tasks, but they’re just things that have come up that I know need to get done. They’re floating around in my head, you know how this is right? You wake up at night going, oh, I forgot I was supposed to send that video to this person. Or I forgot I was going to make a page. I was going to add this to the page or correct that typo.

All of those things, you get them down, you brainstorm them all, you get them on paper, and then you write which days you’re going to complete them. I like to do it on my calendar. Wherever you want to do it is fine. I like to do it on the same calendar where I have all my appointments so I can see if I have a day where I have back to back calls and meetings, I don’t have a lot of extra time in that day to do these other tasks.

On a day when it’s lighter in terms of the scheduled things, and I have a couple of hours here and there or some chunks of time, that’s when I’m going to write down, on this day I will write those emails. On this day I will work on the talk during this two hour block, right?

So it’s basically a plan. It’s having a plan. Some of you are like, duh. But for me, I didn’t used to operate this way. In my personal life, I’m not really great at calendaring everything out and planning everything. And so in my business I had to learn how to. And I really resisted it at first. I don’t want you to think of this as a strict something that you have to follow and if you don’t, you’re never going to be successful. That’s not what I’m talking about here.

I am honestly not perfect at following my calendar. I’m not even perfect at doing this process. Like I said, every now and then I just kind of go, I don’t have that much. I’m pretty sure I can remember it. And I blow it off and I don’t do the meeting with myself and I just figure it out as I go. And you know what? It’s fine. It’s fine, okay.

But the weeks I do it, like this week, for example, I just had a lot going on this week and there’s a lot coming up and a lot of milestones in our business and a lot of really exciting things. And so I was like, I’ve got to really make sure I dial in my time. And I can’t even tell you how good it feels at the end of every day to know I was so productive, I got so many things done that I want to get done.

And I know tomorrow I’m going to have another productive day, but I don’t feel like I’m killing myself. I don’t feel overwhelmed because, like I said, I don’t book my calendar nonstop. I have lots of cushion space in my calendar, and I have lots of personal time in my calendar. I have lots of time and space for me because I know I have to do that.

I have to give myself opportunities to move my body or else I get cranky and I don’t have good ideas anymore. I have to let myself do things like get my hair done, get my nails done. Whatever it is that, for you, is an escape and sort of rejuvenates you, you’ve got to have time for that in your calendar too. I should have mentioned that first.

That stuff is already in my calendar. Like I’ve got a hair appointment today. And hair appointments for me now are long. And I’m not mad at it, I like it. It’s a break for me. It’s an escape from the routine. I rarely get to leave my house these days, so I get out of my house. That was in there before anything else. Hair appointments get booked like eight weeks out. We all know this, right?

So make space for you as well. I’m not talking about overbooking your calendar. Remember, like I said, a lot of the things that I think this has to happen this week, I realized, no, it doesn’t. Not if it means I’m going to be stressed. Not if it means I’m going to burn myself out and I’m going to hate my job in the end. It can wait till next week or the week after. Everything is not as emergent as the prefrontal seems to think it is, okay? All right.

So have a meeting with yourself. Let me know how it goes. Come over to Instagram. I’m on there a lot, Jody Moore Coaching, and send me a DM. If you have a question or you want to just share with me how it went, I’d love to hear from you. Otherwise, I’ll see you tomorrow on the webinar. Jodymoore.com/webinar, if you haven’t registered yet. I’ll see you there. Take care.

If you are a coach, healer or expert who is not yet making six figures, or not sure you’re set up properly to grow to seven figures and beyond. Go take my free training. It’s at jodysfree-training.com. I’ll see you there.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: Meetings with Yourself appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I’ve featured a few of my coaching family members on the podcast before, but I finally have my little sister Lindsay Lyman on the show! Lindsay worked at Amazon for many years. She turned her skills to coaching employees who are navigating careers in Corporate America, and imposter syndrome is something her clients come up against all the time.

Imposter syndrome is something we can experience in any area of life, whether it’s as parents, spouses, in our jobs or businesses, or even in our Church Callings. However, Lindsay has a super-useful viewpoint when it comes to imposter syndrome and it’s going to make a massive difference in how you perceive yourself out in the world.

Tune in this week to discover why Lindsay Lyman believes that imposter syndrome is not real, it’s a lie, and we don’t need to believe it. We’re discussing how to spot imposter syndrome, and Lindsay is showing us how to transform our perception of imposter syndrome, so we can try new things without feeling like there’s something wrong with us.

Coaching changed my life and I’ve watched it change the lives of thousands of men and women since. But is it right for you? You’ll only know by giving it a try. Try it out today by clicking here.

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why people from all walks of life experience imposter syndrome. * What imposter syndrome is and how to spot it at play in your life. * Why Lindsay believes that imposter syndrome is a huge lie. * How not having the right tools stops people from living the full life they really want. * Why getting things wrong in the beginning is a normal part of any process. * How to get clear on your beliefs about yourself, and how those beliefs are stopping you from trying new things. * Lindsay’s advice to empower anyone grappling with imposter syndrome.

Mentioned on the Show:

If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Check out this episode on my YouTube channel
Lindsay Lyman: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Podcast
The Life Coach School
Read more about Dr. Sarah Hackett Stevenson
Taylor Swift

I’m Jody Moore, and this is Better Than Happy, episode 425 Impostor Syndrome is Not Real with Lindsay Lyman.

This is Better Than Happy, the podcast where we study what the healthiest, most successful people in today’s world think, feel, and do. We leverage this knowledge to create our best lives. Are you ready little bird? Let’s fly.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I have a couple of family members, a few family members, who are coaches who have been on this podcast before, but I think this is the first time we’ve had Lindsay on. I don’t know why we’ve waited so long. I’ve actually been asking Lindsay to come on for a very long time. So I finally convinced her.

Lindsay Lyman is my little sis. She is six years younger than me, in case that matters, and definitely, at least six years wiser than me I always say. She always has been. Ever since we were little kids, Lindsay just was confident and mentally and emotionally strong. Also just one of the best people I know.

So, Lindsay has an extensive background working at Amazon for many years and has been coaching employees both in and out of Amazon who want to navigate corporate America, their careers. She’ll tell you a little bit more about that. But I asked her to come on today and talk about imposter syndrome because she has a very interesting viewpoint, and I found it to be a really useful way to think about it. So without further ado, here is my conversation with my sister Lindsay. Here we go.

Jody Moore: Welcome, Lindsay Lyman. Let’s see that cup you’re drinking from?

Lindsay Lyman: Oh this Jody Moore coaching?

Jody: Wait, I have the same one.

Lindsay: I just want everyone to know Jody Moore’s my sister.

Jody: That’s right. This is my sister Lindsay Lyman, you guys. If you’re listening on audio and you can’t see our video, we have these like imitation Stanley Cups with my logo on them that I’m pretty proud of. Pretty proud of that. Very good.

Lindsay: I won’t lie though. The straw’s really thick. It’s too fat. I can’t get my mouth around it.

Jody: That it’s too wide around or is the plastic too thick or what?

Lindsay: No, it’s a thicker straw. I know some people are into that. I’ve learned not my jam. So I recycle my real Stanley straws on it. It’s great.

Jody: Yeah, yeah, the straw’s not great. But anyway. Okay. Welcome, Lindsay Lyman. Let me do a quick intro. This is my little sister, Lindsay. Lindsay is a certified coach at The Life Coach School, a mother of three beautiful daughters and one cute dog, and former Amazon employee rock star. Is that a thing at Amazon? Rockstar?

Lindsay: Sure. Why not? It is now.

Jody: I feel like it is, and I feel like you were one. You were there a long time.

Lindsay: Forever. Yeah.

Jody: You were like pretty high up at Amazon. Just brag for a minute. Tell us?

Lindsay: Yeah, it was a lot. The average employee lasts a little under two years. I was there for 12. Truth be told, I don’t know if that means I was just slower than the rest.

Jody: It took you longer to figure out you didn’t want to be there.

Lindsay: To figure it out. Yeah. Or I don’t know. Sometimes I’m like no, I just had thicker skin. I liked myself. So I was like yeah, you’re wrong. On I went, but I learned a lot.

Jody: You were good at your job. So they kept promoting you and giving you more money, and you liked your coworkers and things mostly.

Lindsay: Yeah, I worked with some amazing people. I learned so much. I was really successful in a lot of things I did. It just kind of got to the point where I was like I think I’m ready for something else. The operational overhead of things, and I wasn’t growing as much as I wanted. I was just ready for change.

Jody: Okay. You’ve been a coach for a little while. Even when you were at Amazon, you were coaching. So tell everyone about what led you to coaching and who you coach and a little bit about that part of your life.

Lindsay: Yeah, sure. I went through coaching. I found out about it through you. I was like oh, I love my sister even though this coaching thing is weird.

Jody: I know. Everyone did think it was kind of weird at first.

Lindsay: Yeah, we respect you, but we were like life coaches? Like we’re not touchy feely emotional people.

Jody: It’s true.

Lindsay: So I was a little confused at first, I won’t lie. But yeah, I’m glad it’s working out. So I kind of first got exposed to it with that. Then I went through some really hard things when I was at Amazon as the sole provider for my family. As Amazon was going through transitions, at one point my position was even eliminated. I was working with some really tough, not appropriate, hard leaders and not getting the support I wanted. Coaching was really the thing that kind of made the difference.

It got me out of the this isn’t fair, what am I going to do doom and gloom and felt like I had some realistic tools to kind of move forward. It made me realize so many people I work with are brilliant, and they would just leave exhausted, questioning themselves in these horrible emotional states. I was like we need to teach this to people in the work setting. So that’s when I went all in and got certified and really started coaching people, kind of from that executive coaching standpoint.

A lot of my clients are technical employees. They’re software development engineers. They’re program managers, project managers. A lot of them aren’t, but majority of the things I coach on are around kind of that career setting. These days, there’s a lot of layoffs. People aren’t really motivated. We’re struggling with back to office versus working from home.

The state of the economy is definitely in this uncertain space. Morale is pretty low across the board. People are just struggling, and there’s not a lot of great answers. So I love to just be able to help people feel a little bit of hope and learn what’s going on for them and teach them some tools to kind of move forward and drive their career, even when things outside of their control are going to keep happening.

Jody: I love it. So you help people achieve their career goals, but also enjoy their lives along the way.

Lindsay: Yeah, yeah.

Jody: Important component of it.

Lindsay: Yeah, a lot of the folks I work with, they’re really brilliant. A lot of them are very successful, but they’re not happy. Emotionally, they don’t have the tools to have that full life that they want.

Jody: Yeah. Love it. Good stuff. Okay. Today, we’re going to talk about a topic that will be really relevant for anybody in that space, but it will also be relevant to those of you who maybe aren’t working for a corporation but you either have your own business or you have volunteer job that you do at the school, or you have a church calling. Really any kind of responsibility at all that you either voluntarily take on or you are voluntold you will be doing.

It’s going to be applicable today, because we’re going to talk about impostor syndrome. Dun, dun. Okay. So, for the record, Lindsay and I did not have a pre-discussion about what we’re going to say other than Lindsay said to me, tell them what you said.

Lindsay: I said I want to come onto your podcast, and I want to talk to the people and tell them why I think impostor syndrome is a big fat lie. It’s a bunch of crap. We need to remove it from our vocabulary.

Jody: I was highly curious, but I didn’t want to have a pre-discussion. I wanted to have the discussion here on the podcast. So with that disclaimer, impostor syndrome is something I don’t talk about it a lot, but I have probably before. It’s something I haven’t thought about as being a problem or a lie until you said that. So let’s dive in, Lindsay. Tell us why you think this is true. Before we talk about why it’s true, we should talk about what it is. I mean I think people have their own assumptions, but what do you mean by it?

Lindsay: Yeah. So the term imposter syndrome was identified back in the 70s by a group of researchers that were kind of interviewing and watching. It was a group of kind of professional women was where this term was originally born from.

They noticed that they were feeling insecure and unsure as they were trying new things and doing things for the first time. They were getting frustrated and kind of worried that there’s something wrong with them and judging themselves, and they termed this imposter syndrome.

It’s not necessarily a medical condition. It’s a feeling we have. It’s kind of become this buzzword now as we’re trying new things, and we don’t feel as confident and adequate. A lot of times we use this term of oh, I just feel like an impostor. I think there’s kind of two pitfalls we get into as we use this term to identify with.

The first is, it makes us think, well maybe there’s something wrong with us. It’s really kind of grounded in this deficiency. There’s something not right. The second thing is it makes us think it’s our job to go and fix it and go and change it.

So usually, we feel this imposter syndrome as we’re doing something for the first time or trying something. If you get a church calling and you don’t know the people or what to do, you’re going to feel really uncomfortable. Or you’re leading something at your kids school, and you’re making it up as you go along. A part of the process is feeling a little bit silly and a little dumb and like you’re screwing some of it up. You maybe are, but that’s part of the process.

So when we’re worried about something’s wrong with us, and we need to go and fix us. It actually kind of keeps us focusing on what we actually want to do, helping people, hitting that goal, delivering the thing, and makes us try to just fix ourselves so that we feel good along the way.

Jody: Hmm, interesting. Okay. I have a couple thoughts and questions. So the word imposter means to pretend to be someone else or something else, basically. I mean I didn’t Google this. I didn’t do the research, like you did. So correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I think about that word.

So if we step into a new role and then we are pretending to be that person, of course it’s going to feel pretend because we’ve never done that before. We’ve never been the young women’s president before. So if I get called to do that, I’m going to have to pretend like I’m a young women’s president when I actually am. It’s just in my mind I haven’t taken on that identity yet.

The word imposter, to me, sounds dishonest. It’s out of integrity. Like if I’m pretending to be this thing that I don’t feel like I am then I’m out of integrity. I wonder if that’s why part of the problem with this feeling and then labeling it that is it implies that we’re doing something dishonest when you’re not doing anything dishonest. It’s just you have to step into the identity and be that before you actually become it internally.

Lindsay: Yes, right. It’s part of the symptom of growing and progressing and getting to where you want to go. It really resonated with me. Back in the 1890s there was a similar term, though not imposter syndrome, where it was called bicycle face. I think of it now, and I’m like oh, that sounds scary.

Jody: What’s bicycle face?

Lindsay: But this is the 1890. So women are in hoop skirts. We’re at home. We’re taking care of the kids. We don’t have as much stay in things. Well, in 1890s is when bicycles kind of became really popular. It used to have one big wheel and one small wheel, and that didn’t work out great. But once they balanced out the wheels, all of a sudden women realized they could get around on their own. They could get to places.

Then they were like wait, this skirt is a terrible idea on a bicycle. I’m going to start wearing bloomers. So things started to change and shift. We know, as humans, we don’t always love change and shift, and that’s a little bit scary. But the symptoms of bicycle face, get this, are things like blushed cheeks, a hard clenched jaw, eyes bulging, expressions of irritability. So things that naturally happen as you’re riding a bike. Like you’re going uphill.

Jody: Yeah. Okay, so is it that it’s new, or is it that it’s like hard work riding this bike?

Lindsay: It’s hard work. If you’re riding a bike up a hill, your cheeks are going to get flushed. You’re hot. You’re moving your body. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s not bicycle face. It’s simply riding a bike.

Jody: It’s putting in some effort in way that exerts you, and that is uncomfortable.

Lindsay: Correct, right. There’s nothing wrong with maybe you’re going to get flushed cheeks. You’re maybe going to sweat. You might clench your jaw as you’re like huffing and puffing and trying to get up the hill. So what ultimately happened was Dr. Sarah Hackett Stevenson, she was the first ever woman admitted to the American Medical Association.

When she went there, it wasn’t like she tried to create all these tests to prove out bicycle face. She basically just went and challenged the entire premise and was like this is dumb. This is not a thing. There’s not a symptom. There’s not a problem. This is called riding a bike.

Today, we have other terms of like resting B face. Like, you’re just sitting there, and someone’s like oh my gosh. What’s the matter? You’re like no, I’m just like I’m just having a human moment right here. So I kind of think imposter syndrome sits in the same place. It’s not this thing that we need to go and be scared of and try to fix and solve. It’s the flushed cheeks of riding a bike. It’s part of the process of learning and growing and doing something new for the first time. Part of the symptoms is you feel inadequate, and like you’re doing it wrong and some self-doubt.

So what it’s actually telling us is you’re exactly where you should be on the way to getting to that end result. It’s the exact result you want. When you’re riding a bike, if you’re trying to move your body and burn calories, if your heart rate is not up and you’re not sweating, you’re not getting there. It’s the sweat to where you want to go.

So that’s why I think like impostor syndrome just has such negativity. It’s like we want to pause and fix it. I’m like no, go all in. Go feel it even more. You’re going to get to where you want to go so much faster.

Jody: So just like bicycle face is not a thing, it’s just you’re exercising. Congratulations, you’re moving body. Maybe imposter syndrome isn’t a thing. It’s just you’re new to this. That’s all it is.

Lindsay: That’s it.

Jody: It’s just you’re new to this. Welcome. Being new often doesn’t feel good. It’s kind of scary. It’s kind of uncomfortable. You’re not very good at it, etc. Like if we took impostor syndrome away and stopped labeling it this what sounds like a clinical diagnosis and something we need to fix, maybe we would free ourselves to just be new. I love that. I love that.

Okay, so let’s talk about that for just a minute. I am fascinated by this. I feel like I talk about it a lot. But I’m fascinated by how terrible we are as adults at being new. How afraid we are of being new. Like, we think that because we’re over age 30, we should just be good at anything that we want to do. If we’re not good at it, we shouldn’t do it.

Like I love to get on the internet sometimes and look up ballet classes. Notice that there’s like ages two to six in this class, and seven to 10 in this class, and then all the way up to about age 18 or whatever. Then if it’s just my little local ballet studio, that’s it. There’s no more. Then you’re going to go be a professional ballerina or you’re done. But there’s no like if you’re a 48 year old woman who wants to start ballet, come here. That’s not a thing because that doesn’t happen. There’s no demand for that.

Jody: Right. Yeah. Because even the little things, they’re not new to us anymore. Like we have so many conveniences. You think of trying to drive somewhere. Before you would have to like ask your neighbor or, heaven forbid, get out a paper map. Like when we’re trying to go somewhere for the very first time, it’s not a new thing that we’re going to have to stop and maybe ask directions and focus and really pay attention. We just type it into our phone. If we miss the turn, Siri’s going to reroute us, and we’ll get there.

So I think that big things definitely, but I think it’s the little things daily aren’t new and challenging to us as well. So that we’ve lost that comfort of discomfort. It’s so unfamiliar to us that now when it comes up, it’s very uncomfortable.

As you know and as you talk about, emotions we’re not used to feeling, we reject and our body sees as dangerous. That’s why when someone gives you a compliment, feeling that pride and joy, we label it “positive”, it feels terrible. We try to deflect it because we’re not used to feeling that. It’s the same with these micro-discomforts. We’re not used to feeling not in the know or uncertain or like we’re not self-sufficient. Like we can’t figure it out. So when we do feel that it feels even bigger than what it really is.

Jody: That’s so good. I feel like this has a lot to do with willingness to be vulnerable too. Like even just having to pull over and ask directions is a little bit vulnerable. It’s asking for help. It’s talking to a stranger. You don’t know how they’re going to respond. Because we don’t have to do that with little things, it’s really hard to do with big things. I’m sorry, I’m not very good at this. Could you help me figure it out? Or sorry, I messed that all up because I’m brand new here. I don’t know what I’m doing.

Lindsay: Yes, yes.

Jody: Ah, man.

Lindsay: Exactly.

Jody: It’s so good. Yet, I know when I coach on this, and tell me what your experience has been. But I feel like when I’ve coached people on this, they say I’m afraid of looking dumb, or I don’t want to make a mistake. I don’t want to burden other people. A big part of it comes down to our fear of what they will think. I don’t want to bother people. I’m afraid that they’ll think I don’t know what I’m talking about. They’ll think whatever negative thing about me.

Yet, when the tables are turned, when there’s a new person at something that you’re already good at. I don’t know about you, but I do get annoyed sometimes with the new person that’s trying to pretend like they already know what they’re doing. But I am not at all annoyed. I have nothing but compassion and I want to help the person that says I’m so sorry. I’m new. I don’t know how to do this.

Lindsay: Yes.

Jody: Right?

Lindsay: Yes. It’s so true. Because we know when you’re new, you’re not supposed to know how to do it. So if the person isn’t vulnerable enough to admit that, that’s when we’re like wait. I know you don’t know how to do this. You know you don’t know how to do this. But we’re miscommunicating here or you’re trying to hide it. Let’s just be real and honest. We all want the same thing. I’m here to help you learn how to do this. Yeah.

Jody: We love those because we love to help each other. We love to feel like the expert. I will help you because I know how to do this. So it’s just so interesting how the thing our brains are afraid of. I’m like what if you just admitted that you’re new, you don’t know how to do it. You’re going to make mistakes. They’re like oh, then they would think this, that, and the other. I’m like would they though? Like most people, most like normal, healthy, functioning adults. Do you think that? No, it’s the total opposite.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It’s fascinating. I also think it comes down to do you like yourself? Because we know logically, people are always going to think things about us, whether we’re new or not. Like, I look at a lot of my clients. They’re in a work setting. They’re like oh, I’m going to get fired, or I’m going to get in trouble. They worry from kind of a livelihood standpoint.

But I’m like it really comes down to if they like themselves or not. I use the example, I’m a terrible speller. In fact I got the best email, I might have to print it out. I was like oh, I’m an idiot. I published a podcast last week, and it was about if your team’s struggling with low morale, but I spelled morale wrong. It was like low morale. I was like this is great.

Jody: If your team is struggling with low morals.

Lindsay: Yeah. That’s awesome. I published it everywhere. I was like oops. The nicest client was like hey Linds. I think you spelled this wrong. I was like for sure I did. But like, I know that I’m not a great speller. A lot of times, I have things in place, and I catch it, and I do my very best. There’s a lot of people that I’m sure judge me for that. They have every right to it.

I’m like yeah, you’re right. I’m bad at it. But I don’t judge myself for it. So I’m okay with them being right about that opinion. I’m just like yeah, sometimes I get it wrong, but I’m really good at fixing it. I’ve got a lot I’m doing. I’m trying to juggle. I’m doing the best I can. I like me at the end of the day. I did my best.

Jody: How do you do that, Lindsay? Because that’s what people tell me all the time. Okay. I know that. Like I wouldn’t judge someone else for having weaknesses, but how do I stop criticizing and beating up myself?

Lindsay: I mean, that’s like the golden question, and I’m not perfect at it to be honest.

Jody: If you could just tell us that, this will be the last podcast we ever publish.

Lindsay: Yeah, right? I think I would be more successful than you if I knew that.

Jody: No, but you probably have some ideas of things.

Lindsay: Honestly, a lot of it, for me, has been always trying to make things it’s not about me. It’s not about me. I truly believe my worth and my value and my humaneness I had nothing to do with. I can’t make myself any better. I also can’t make myself any worse because my worth doesn’t come from me. It doesn’t come from my production, from my output, what I create, what I do. I genuinely believe that in my core.

Like, in the LDS faith like I believe I am a child of God. So a lot of times, I’m doing my best. I’m always like I kind of just give it to God. I’m like I stayed really close and check in and I’m like where do I need to keep working? What’s not working that I need to fix? The rest I’m like oops, can you help out here? I can’t do this.

As a single mom running a business, working with kids, trying to be healthy, helping with my family, involved in church. I know it’s not possible for me to do it. I don’t want to give up the things I want to do. I like having more things I want to do the time to do it. So I have to be willing to just know it has nothing to do with me. I really believe that in my core.

My successes, my wins, they’re not me. Yes, I showed up. Yes, I did the work. But I’m just here as a child of God trying to do my very best. So who am I to judge God for not doing his best? I don’t believe he made a mistake with me. I’ve made a lot of big mistakes.

Jody: That’s good. I want to say this too because I know you personally, obviously, pretty well. I think one of the things that helps you and me, we tend to think similarly about a lot of things, is that we have a good sense of humor. I really do think that goes a long way. That we try not to let anything get too serious and heavy in our minds. When you can keep things light and you can find, like life is funny. People are funny.

Lindsay: Yeah, they really are.

Jody: You know, like yeah. You will sometimes be like oh yeah. Like remember it was Christmas Eve. Lindsay was supposed to host Christmas Eve dinner. That’s the day that she had a plumbing problem that was leaking through the lights in her basement. Long story short, she did not host Christmas Eve dinner.

In the middle of it, you were like overwhelmed and stressed and everything. But then like right after you’re just like laughing. Like, of course that happened. Of course, my whole basement room is destroyed, and it happened on Christmas. You’ve got to try to lighten up. Because in the end, nobody was hurt.

Lindsay: I even got a new Christmas ornament. I made an ornament with the broken pipe so I can remember every Christmas.

Jody: You did? That’s awesome. That’s what I mean. You’ll hang it on your treat, and you’ll laugh about it later. I think that being that way about your life in general. I’ve seen you handle what could be to a lot of people really crushing, heavy situations. It’s not that you don’t get frustrated or stressed or whatever. But then you’re able to step back and be amused by it all.

I think that when you can look at life that way, you can look at yourself that way too. You can like still strive to be your best and be disappointed at times, but also just like yep, there I go again messing that up. Totally messed that up, and just lighten it all up a little.

Jody: I see a lot of that in you too. We’ve talked about this of we have that similar nature of being able to, like we’ve both been through some big heavy things. I mean, one day we could have a really good reality TV show. But yeah, there is humor to a lot of it. That’s a really good point. I think it’s realizing this is just one day in the big picture of things, right?

We were able to kind of stay present and focused in the moment and still see the humor and not let our brains get carried away with the doom and gloom of what if, what if, what if. We’re just like I don’t know. I’ll figure it out then. Because I think also in various aspects of our lives, you and I have kind of been the natural default leader to do things. I even see this.

We go on family vacation, and we’re like what are we doing for dinner? I’m like I don’t know. Let me call Jody and see we’re not afraid to make it up. Because if we’re wrong, we’re like oops, my bad. We can go and correct it. But I think that helps keep the lightness of it that we can kind of lead and keep moving forward.

Jody: Yeah, that’s true. So I’m just trying to anticipate what people’s questions might be about impostor syndrome and the things that I hear when people say I think I’m having impostor syndrome. There’s this fear of like, and we’ve spoken to this a little bit, but I just want to make sure we really close the loop on this. This fear of like people are going to think who does she think she is?

Like, I see this especially with my entrepreneur clients when they’re trying to start a coaching business, for example? People are going to be like really? You’re going to be a life coach? Who do you think you are? Or you’re going to have a podcast now? Who do you think you are?

Don’t you think that, I mean I never really felt that way personally. I’m trying to ask myself why. I think it’s partly because I’m pretty good about not putting people on pedestals, for the most part. There are certain celebrities and things that maybe in my mind I’m like whoa, she’s pretty important.

But like, I look at other coaches who are more successful than me, or entrepreneurs who have bigger businesses than me, bigger following than me. In my mind, I haven’t elevated them to like they must have it all together. They must be better than me. They must be more perfect than me in certain ways. Like, I don’t elevate people in my mind.

So therefore, when I attempt to do those same things, it’s not because I’m trying to elevate myself. You know what I mean? Like I know you didn’t struggle with that either. Right?

Lindsay: I think it’s a lot the same. I don’t believe it’s better one way or another. Like oh, this person is really famous, or this person is really successful, or they have so many followers. Yeah, it’s not putting them on a pedestal because I don’t believe in this fantasyland of oh, then you’ve arrived. Then it’s like amazing and wonderful. All of a sudden, you don’t have problems. You wake up skinny and refreshed and confident and excited for the day.

I’m like all those people that we tend to put up on pedestals, they still struggle with the same things. I look at recently Taylor Swift has been all over. I think she’s amazing and brilliant and wonderful. I also am like I would never want to be her. You can’t go to the grocery store. You can’t do so many of these just normal things we do day in and day out.

Yet she lives this, I’m sure, amazing lifestyle where she can do all sorts of cool things and have these amazing experiences. But I don’t actually believe her life is any better than mine or mine is any better than hers. Just the flavor of the fun part and the hard part is a little bit different.

So while some people may think like who do you think you are, and kind of put them on that pedestal. We all have things that we shine bright in and that we’re really good at. We all have things that we struggle with. You can’t avoid that. You can’t out success your way from that.

Jody: You can’t earn your way to your own approval. There was a woman I was coaching today in one of I don’t remember which call because I’ve done so many this week. On one of my calls, this woman was saying she’s trying to make a certain amount of money in her business. I asked her why.

She said one of the reasons, she had multiple reasons, and a lot of them were great reasons. But she said, I want to prove to myself that I could do it. I was like oh, doesn’t that sound like a good reason? But let’s think about it. Why do you have to prove anything to yourself? Why do you have to earn through your achievements, through your success, you’re trying to earn your own approval.

This woman, by the way, already had a multiple six figure business. I was like you haven’t proven it yet? There’s no point at which you’re not going to keep looking forward going but I could be there. I could have done it faster, or I could have done it better. You just have to decide to approve of yourself right now.

She wants to prove herself that she can do something. I’m like did you know you’re allowed to just believe you can do that even without doing it? You don’t have to prove it. You’re allowed to just go no, I can make millions of dollars in this business.

In fact, I recommend that you do. Just choose to believe that. Know that it’ll take you some time because you’re going to mess it up along the way. You’re going to have failures along the way. Still choose to believe it. Don’t do it to try to prove it. Just choose to believe it, and then just do it for fun. Just do it for fun, right.

Lindsay: Yeah, I agree. I think that proving it is a really good point. I think that’s sometimes where the imposter syndrome comes in is you start to doubt yourself, can I do it? I look at I know my default is work. I feel much more successful and get a little bit more dopamine highs from work than I do from being a parent. Because in that case, I’m like my kids are crazy. I don’t know. I’d rather just go work if I’m being honest. Right?

So when I’m thinking okay, well I can believe that really easy in a work setting. But when I look at okay, as a mother, how do I not feel like I need to prove that I was a good mom today? That I was present, that I was focused, that I showed up.

Again, I think it just comes down to having a little bit of grace for yourself. Just realizing I did show up. I only had 30% to give today as a mom, and I gave 30%. So I gave 100% of what I had. Just realizing.

Jody: That’s some good girl math.

Lindsay: It’s totally my kind of math. I was like it was 75% off, which means it’s free. So I bought it.

Jody: Did you see that real on Instagram about girl math?

Lindsay: Yeah, I felt very seen. I loved it.

Jody: Me too. I was like I do girl math.

Lindsay: Yeah, I am a believer. I can buy into that program. It’s just knowing the only thing. It’s just constantly working. We don’t need to prove anything. All we’re asked is to just show up and do our best. To try to remove the human judgment of what is our best. I’ve had some days where my best is terrible, but that was literally the best I could do in that moment. I did it. Other days I’m my best is a little bit better.

But it’s this constant evaluation of us wanting to put ourselves in a bucket of like did I do enough? Did I hit the checkmark? Again, that’s where I’m just like maybe it goes back to what you’re saying of that humor. I’m always like well put another quarter in the therapy job for my kids today. Like I just I’m trying my best. I don’t have any more to give than that. So I’m going to keep at it.

Jody: I know some people listening might be thinking well, isn’t that just abdicating your responsibility? Like it’s not okay to not try to be a better mom or whatever. But I think you know one of the things that we learned from our teacher, Brooke Castillo, that has changed my life so much is just giving yourself permission to be not good at it. Whether it be as a mother, as an entrepreneur, as a new employee at a company, new in your church calling.

When you can give yourself permission to be not good at it because what’s the alternative? You are going to be not good at it at times. So you might as well give yourself permission then that actually opens you up to becoming curious about the parts that are challenging, become curious about where you fell short, which is the best way to then improve upon those areas. So it’s totally ironic but being okay with being not good at it is the way you get better at it, not the other way around.

Feeling bad about it, shaming yourself, feeling guilty of being embarrassed causes you to want to hide and not look at the areas where you’re falling short, which minimizes your ability to improve. So this isn’t just about complacency and oh well, throw our hands up in the air. We always are striving to continue to grow and evolve, but not because it will make you a more valuable person because then you can love yourself. You’ve got to love yourself and recognize your value now. Then you will grow and evolve much more effectively in the end.

Lindsay: There’s no such thing as imposter syndrome. It’s not a thing.

Jody: I love that so much. Okay, so instead of bike face, we just started saying I’m riding a bike. Although, I love that so much. I feel like I’m going to call people out a lot on bike face now that you said that.

Lindsay: At our next family dinner I’m going to be like what’s up bicycle face?

Jody: Bicycle. It wasn’t bikes back then. Congrats to that woman who got rid of that statement because I’d never heard it. So she did her job well. But instead of imposter syndrome, what are we going to say then? I’m new.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m learning.

Jody: I’m new. I just taught this in a confidence course, but confidence is embracing all of yourself, your strengths and your weaknesses. So confidence isn’t look how good I am at this. Confidence is hey, I’m really good at this part. I’m terrible at this part. I’m going to need some help, or I’m going to need some patience while I figure it out. That’s confidence. So there’s no more imposter syndrome. There’s just I’m new, and it’s uncomfortable. Yeah.

Lindsay: I’m at the beginning part of growing. I’m new. Totally pull the new kid card as often as you can.

Jody: Because the truth is we all love the new kid, especially when they just admit it.

Lindsay: We really do, and you’re rooting for them. You’re like come on, you’re doing such a good job.

Jody: It makes the not new people feel like champs. So it’s a win all the way around. Just be new. Be new. So good. Okay, sorry. I just thought of one final thing. With entrepreneurs, they’ll often say well, how am I going to grow? How am I going to get clients and customers if I’m just admitting that I’m new, and I don’t know what I’m doing? Do you have any thoughts on that? Because I do if you don’t, but you go first.

Lindsay: Always. You and I. We’re both like well, we could talk for hours. Yeah, it’s not about you. That’s when I’m like get over yourself and get out there and get to work. Go screw it up 500 times. Go try to help as many people as you can until you figure it out. The reason you’re trying to build a business isn’t about you. If your reason is about you, you’re really going to struggle, and I haven’t seen a lot of those people succeed. Yes, it’s fun to grow. Yes, it’s fun to be successful. I’m not saying don’t have those goals. But if you’re in it for fame and success.

Jody: For validation.

Lindsay: Yeah, to prove your worth, you’re going to go to some extreme unhealthy ways. You can hustle your way through there, but you will crash and burn eventually. It’s not sustainable. You’re not going to like who you are as you get there. I say get out of your way and be willing to go screw it up 500 times for the possibility of maybe helping one person.

I look at a lot of being an entrepreneur is not doing the craft that you’re good at. Right? As coaches, an eighth of my time is spent actually coaching. The rest is on working on my business. But I love the coaching part. It’s so fun. It’s so great to like connect with people and just love them and help them understand what’s going on in their brains. You need those moments to help you get through the other part. But if you’re struggling, I’d say it’s not about you and just go take as much action as you can.

Jody: That is always good advice for entrepreneurs. The other thing I’ll add is it is okay to be real about where you are. When I launch a new program or something. Again, it’s not the leading thing that I’m talking about. But I will say this is the first time I’ve taught this program in this way. So I’m going to be experimenting as we go, and you’re going to get a discounted rate from what I’m going to be charging next time because I’m going to need some flexibility to figure out how to make sure I help you achieve the result and telling you what I can achieve.

So I don’t have to be confident in my program if I’ve never run this program. I can be honest about the fact that this is new. I’m going to be experimenting with it. I might change it up in the middle if I see that it’s not giving you what I promised I would give you. People love that. They want to hear that.

But I can still be confident that I know I’m going to show up and take care of you. So you’re like putting confidence in your honesty and your effort and your willingness to make it right. When you’re transparent with people about that, they actually love it.

Like why do we go to the Paul Mitchell School to get a facial where people are learning? Because we want the discount. We know that somebody’s supervising them. They’re going to make it right. So we’re okay with the people making mistakes along the way. We should go there, by the way, to the Paul Mitchell School. It’s right down the street. Get a facial.

Lindsay: I’m in. I’m in.

Jody: Yeah. Do they still do that? I don’t know. I used to do that in high school.

Lindsay: I don’t know. They should. Yeah, we’re going to check on that.

Jody: Anyway. Okay, just saying. All right, Lindsay, you’re so amazing. I love you so much. Where can people learn more from you, get more help from you? Tell us.

Lindsay: Yeah, the best place to go is I host a weekly podcast, More Than a Paycheck. You can also find me at LindsayLymanCoaching.com. Those are kind of the best places to follow me. I’m always out there sharing insights and trying to help people along the way.

Jody: If somebody is like oh good, I’ve been looking for a coach to work with me one on one, or my spouse is looking for a coach to help navigate their job situation or whatever. Where can they learn more about hiring you?

Lindsay: Yeah, on my website. Go to LindsayLymanCoaching.com/chat. Let’s just start out with a coffee chat. Let’s just do an I connect and see what’s going on. What are you looking for? Is it the right fit? Get you some immediate help and some solutions on what you’re going on right there. We can kind of figure out a plan of action at that stage.

Jody: You can make it a coffee chat or a Diet Coke chat or a water with extra electrolytes chat, whatever you want.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m all in. I’m all in. I know. I love that I have hundreds of coffee chats, and I don’t drink coffee.

Jody: You don’t drink coffee at all.

Lindsay: No. They’re virtual.

Jody: Everybody knows coffee means quick and informal. So yeah. Okay. Love it. Thanks for coming on, Lindsay.

Lindsay: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Coaching changed my life. I’ve watched it change the lives of thousands of men and women since, but is it right for you? You’ll only know by giving it a try. Try it out today at JodyMoore.com/Trial.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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Do you worry that your ideal clients can’t afford you? How often are you coming up against the objection of, “Working with you sounds good, but I don’t have the money?”

Whether you’re a Swiftie or not, Taylor Swift is serving us a huge lesson in business right now with her Eras Tour. People are literally begging to spend their money on a ticket to see her live, and the truth is you could have people beating down the door to work with you too.

Tune in to hear the reminder Taylor Swift is offering us right now about how lots of people have money they’re willing to spend. You just have to help them put it to use in a way that’ll serve them, and I’m sharing my tips with you today.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The biggest reason people won’t buy what you have to offer. * One lesson to take away from what we’ve witnessed over the last year with Taylor Swift. * What you need to do if your potential clients are saying they can’t afford you.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice
Taylor Swift
Barbie – movie

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: What We Learned from Taylor Swift.

Hello, everybody. How’s it going, entrepreneurs? The last couple weeks I did not publish Entre-Talk episodes. I’m so sorry. But I’m going to make it up to you because I’ve put together a really amazing workshop/webinar that I want to offer to you, the price is free.

And what I’m going to be teaching you on that webinar is if I lost everything today, if my business was totally gone for some reason and I had no followers, no podcast, nobody knew my name, no email list, no team, little to no money. I’m going to show you exactly what I would do to create a thriving six figure business that would have the potential to grow to seven figures in today’s world given the current economy, given the current rules of social media, given just all the factors that come into play.

I’m going to tell you exactly what I would do. It’s three simple steps. I do not worry about losing my business because I know how to build a successful coaching or teaching or expert healer type business. And I want to teach it to you for free. So it’s happening very soon, from the day this episode airs, I think it’s about 10 days away or so, 12 days maybe.

So make sure you register, go to jodymoore.com/webinar and I think there’s two options so that you can try to get to one live if you want because it will be more beneficial if you can get there live. We will of course send out a replay if you can’t, so jodymoore.com/webinar. I’ll see you there.

Okay, today I want to talk to you about Taylor Swift. How does that sound? Now, I really do kind of want to spend some time thinking through just Taylor Swift’s phenomenon she’s created this year with her Ares Tour and everything going on with it. But for today’s episode there is one huge lesson that I want to make sure you take away from what we’ve witnessed over the last year I guess you could say with Taylor Swift.

This came up today in the coaching I was doing with business students and it came up a couple of times actually where people will say to me, “My clients can’t afford me.” Sometimes it sounds like they used to be able to but now that interest rates or inflation has gone up and the economy has shifted, now they can’t afford me. Or I changed my program, I raised my prices, now they can’t afford me. Other times I hear people just say it right off the bat, I want to do this thing, I want to serve these people, but I’m just worried that they can’t afford me.

And then as you start building your business, you’re going to hear people say, “It sounds good, I just don’t have the money.” It’s the number one reason people will give for not buying. And a lot of people will teach you that’s a lie, it’s not true. And I don’t like to think of it that way. I don’t like to think of people as lying to me. I know they don’t feel like they’re lying, and there are things that I don’t buy and I tell myself it’s because I don’t have the money for it.

What people mean when they say it’s a lie is that what they’re really saying is they’re not willing to pay the money for it. They don’t see the value. It doesn’t feel like it might be as valuable as what you’re asking. You know how we know? Because people are beating down the door to try to give Taylor Swift their money and she can’t take it from everyone because she doesn’t have the room in the stadiums where she’s doing her shows to fit everyone. And people are ticked about it.

People are mad at Ticketmaster. People are so jealous of their friends who were able to get in the queue and pay money, good high prices, even. We’re not talking like just dollar bills here. We’re talking in the hundreds, if not more to buy Taylor Swift tickets. People have some money and they are not only willing to spend it, they are begging to spend it on something that they really want.

Here’s what’s powerful about this beautiful demonstration Taylor Swift just reminded us of and gave us. My guess is some of you, your audience is a bunch of Swifties, the same people you’re telling me they can’t afford me now, if I said, “Listen, I got some Taylor Swift tickets, would you like to buy them?” They’d be all over it. Not all of them, there are a lot of people who can’t afford Taylor Swift tickets, I get that, but there are plenty who can.

So if you have this belief, people can’t afford me, if you’re hearing that over and over again, people are saying, “I just don’t have the money.” Then you either need to make your offer more valuable, you need to line it up more closely with what people really need and want, and/or you need to do a better job illustrating the value. How do we illustrate the value? We do it partly through selling, but also partly through giving some value ahead of time through providing people with results before they’ve ever even bought anything from us, either low priced or free.

That’s why we all love Taylor Swift because we can buy her music for $15 for a CD. What does it cost now? I don’t know. We all stream it. So whatever that costs, it’s pretty low priced. That’s how we know we love the way we feel when we listen to her music and that’s why we all want to go to her show. So there are enough people that have money. There are enough people that can afford what you offer to help you be successful, I promise you.

You are not thinking about them, you’re not talking to them, you’re not attracting them. You haven’t created an offer that they’re dying to get and/or you’re not telling them about it. Those are all things you can control. You know what you can’t control? The economy, inflation rates, whether or not people show up for things. You can make an impact there but you can’t completely control other people.

But you can control what you do, how amazing and valuable it is, how you talk about it, how specifically it meets the needs of the person you’re trying to serve, how compelling you make that offer, how much urgency you create around getting it now versus waiting. And how you sell people on themselves, on the idea that they can achieve the result that you promise and how often you talk about it, how often you invite people, how much content you put out there. Double down, triple down, 10X your efforts. Go big, talk about it everywhere.

Barbie movie taught us this too, Barbie movie just put pink everywhere for months leading up to it. So we’re all on the edge of our seats waiting to see it whether you like the movie or not, you can’t deny that the marketing team nailed it. You know why? Because they talked about it everywhere all the time, that is the important thing.

Last thing I want to say. If in your mind you’re like my ideal client can’t afford me, then you have the wrong ideal client. You need to have a client who wants whatever you offer, needs what you have, is willing to pay money to solve it and has the money, can afford to solve it. That is your ideal client. When you understand that, you will think about that person, you will talk to that person, you will create content for that person. You will create opportunities for that person and then you will attract that person.

But if you are thinking about the person who can’t afford it, that’s who you will attract. And listen, this is not about judgment. I want you to know that through all of your free content, you’re going to serve the people that can’t afford you and that’s a beautiful thing. That’s an amazing part of the world that we live in today and the way that I teach marketing. We want to help those people.

But to have a thriving business, to be able to keep providing the free help, you need people who can afford you, talk to them, invite them, picture them. Thanks for the reminder, Taylor Swift, turns out a lot of people have a lot of discretionary money. Let’s help them put it to use in a way that will serve them and their lives better. Thanks for joining me, entrepreneurs, I’ll see you next time.

If you are a coach, healer or expert who is not yet making six figures, or not sure you’re set up properly to grow to seven figures and beyond, go take my free training. It’s at jodysfree-training.com. I’ll see you there.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: What We Learned From Taylor Swift appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Have you ever stopped to recognize how much power lies in your thoughts and beliefs? Gaining awareness of our thoughts and beliefs gives us the leverage to change our entire life experience if we want to. However, while it sounds simple enough, becoming fully aware of our thoughts can be quite challenging in reality.

In all my years of coaching, I’ve discovered one foolproof way to gain awareness of what you’re thinking and believing, and it’s a practice I call result ownership. You will become unstoppable when you can identify and own all of your results, and the great news is you don’t even have to change the thoughts fueling those results if you don’t want to or aren’t ready to yet.

Join me this week to discover the power of result ownership and why it’s key to gaining insight into what you’re thinking and believing. You’ll hear common examples of results you can begin owning right now, what happens when you practice result ownership consistently, and why owning your results is vital if you want to change them.

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why it’s challenging to become fully aware of our thoughts and beliefs. * How to become aware of what you’re thinking and believing. * Why you don’t need to change your thoughts if you don’t want to. * What happens when you practice result ownership. * Why you shouldn’t change your results without owning them first. * Common examples of results you can begin owning right now.

Mentioned on the Show:

If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Check out this episode on my YouTube channel
Brenda Lomeli

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 424, Result Ownership.

Hello everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I just got back from, first of all I went to girls camp, actually before that I went to Utah to see my sister and her family. Then I went to girls camp with our church group. And then I went to Hawaii with a bunch of my extended family. Amazing, what an amazing summer I’ve been having. But you know what is even more fun or at least as fun as all of that? Is being so excited to come back to work because you love your job that much.

I don’t know how I got this lucky or blessed because I’ve had a lot of jobs in my life and I liked most of my jobs, it’s not like I hated my other jobs. But I have never had a job like my coaching practice where I literally could not wait to get back and do at least half the things I get to do in this job. There are the other half that I sort of go, “Oh, I’ve got to do that work.” But coaching, teaching, even just being here recording a podcast I love. So thank you for being here, or else I wouldn’t get to do what I love.

Today we’re going to talk about result ownership. And I want to just dive in and point out if you’re new around here that a lot of the work I do is around helping people become aware of what they’re thinking and believing. Because I do believe that that is where so much of our power lies. That’s where everything begins. That’s where our emotions begin. That’s where the action that we’re taking begins from. That is the sort of leverage point at which we get the most traction, when we become aware of what we’re thinking and believing.

Now, that might not sound challenging, it might sound simple, but it’s actually quite challenging to become fully aware of what you’re thinking and believing, for many reasons. One of them being that we have so many thoughts happening, we couldn’t possibly pay attention to them all. Another one that many of our thoughts are happening sort of under the surface in that mostly subconscious part of the brain. Many of our thoughts are just so automatic that they come and go really quickly and we don’t really notice them.

Many of them don’t sound like thoughts at all, they just sound like us observing the world, they just sound like the truth or the reality of what is. And then I would say probably one of the main ones anyway that I see when I’m coaching that prevents our awareness is our judgment of it, our judgment of our thoughts, judgment of our stories, thinking that we shouldn’t be thinking them or believing them. And so we don’t even want to look at them.

Anyway, the key is to become more aware of what you’re thinking and believing. The key is not even necessarily to change what you’re thinking and believing. I am much more interested in the awareness piece than I am in the changing piece because it is in the awareness piece that you gain the authority over your thoughts and over your own brain to then direct it. And we’ll never get rid of the part of us that has some fear and some scarcity and some shame and all of those things are always going to be there. They’re a part of a healthy human being.

So it’s not just about getting rid of those, it’s just about becoming aware that they are thoughts and stories so that they can still be there from time to time and not direct us. We don’t want those thoughts or those emotions or those stories to be the place from which we’re making decisions in most cases. So awareness is key.

Now, how do we become more aware? Well, lots of ways. That’s what I’m trying to offer you here on this podcast. This is what we do in my coaching programs is we become much more aware, we dive in. As a coach, I help people become aware. But one of the things you can try on your own at home is to take a look at the results of your life. The results will be an indicator of what you’re thinking and believing. So I want to begin by defining what I mean by a result.

A lot of people think of results as circumstances. And that is a part of your result is your circumstances. But I want to broaden the definition to not just be your circumstances. I want your result to be your experience of your circumstances. So when we look at results, we’re going to look at circumstances, but we’re also going to look at your experience of those circumstances. We’re going to look at different parts of your life.

And the key here and the reason I’ve called this result ownership is because when you can as much as possible own your results as created by you beginning with your thoughts and stories in your mind. Then you will become extremely powerful in your own life. Let me say that again.

If you can own every result I have, meaning the circumstance and/or my experience of, it is being created by me beginning in my mind with sentences and stories that I’m believing. Then you become supremely powerful to direct yourself and your life to become what you want it to be. And that is a pretty exciting and fun place to live from. So I’m going to give you some examples here of different results that you might want to take a look at. I’m especially going to speak to maybe results that you wish were a little bit different.

But if you can identify with any of these and you say, “Oh yeah, that’s me, I have that result. I must be believing or thinking something along those lines. Do not judge yourself for it. That is not what this episode is about. This is not about me pointing out it’s wrong for you to think about it this way. That’s not what I’m saying at all. It’s just about awareness, look, I have created this. That’s good to know. You might even discover that you’ve created something you don’t want and not be ready or willing or able to change it and that is still okay.

The awareness will still serve you even if you’re not ready or willing, maybe you’re too afraid, maybe it feels too hard. That’s totally fine. It’s still going to serve you to gain the awareness. I have created this with my brain because the more you own all of that in your life, again, the more powerful you become even if the area that you identify it with isn’t an area you’re ready or willing to change. Are you with me?

Okay, let’s dive in. First result that you can take a look at is your money. What is your financial situation right now? Now, again, there are some circumstances involved in the result part of what we’re looking at here. The circumstances might be when I say circumstance, I mean the facts. That’s how we define circumstances around here. They’re the facts of the situation. So I like to get sort of nitpicky in the fact line.

In other words, to even say I make $100,000 a year. I would question if we want to put that in the C line because that may be the salary that your company has agreed to pay you or that might be the revenue that you’ve brought in, in your business in the past etc. But that could all change tomorrow. You could get a big promotion tomorrow and they could double your salary. Or you could decide to shut down your business and not make that money.

So because a year is a long timeline, I would rather you give something more factual like last month I brought in x amount of income or revenue. But another way to look at the circumstance part of your money result is your net worth. What is your current net worth? Because money is an interesting one, money is a flow, it comes into our life and it goes out of our life. So to say, we have a lot of money, not a circumstance. That’s a thought or a story.

To say we don’t have much money, money’s really tight, we live paycheck to paycheck. We’re constantly trying to make ends meet. None of those are circumstances. Those are all thoughts or stories. Your result will begin with the circumstance and then your experience of that circumstance. Do you feel strapped for money? Do you feel like there’s plenty of money? Do you feel guilty because you’re irresponsible with your money, believing that you’re irresponsible with your money? Do you feel a lot of gratitude and abundance about your money?

Do you feel security and peace around your money? Do you feel really confident and proud of your financial situation? Whatever that result is, your experience of your circumstance is because of what you’re thinking and believing. Now, I know some of you are like, “No, that’s not me, Jody. I don’t even work. I stay at home. I take care of the kids, I manage the house and everything. My husband’s the one working. Our money is because of his thoughts.”

And I’m going to say, “No. We’re not going to do that. We’re not going to delegate your result to your husband because that leaves you powerless, especially if you and your husband don’t see eye to eye on things.” Your financial situation is a result of what you’re thinking and believing.

So let’s just give, I’ll give some examples that I’ve coached on commonly. Let’s say your husband has a job, you’re at home raising the kids etc. And your husband makes less money than you wish you had in your life. Your result is first of all even the circumstance, the amount of money you have but also your experience of it is because of what you’ve been thinking and believing. At some point you had a thought, I should stay home with the kids or I need to stay home with the kids or if I don’t stay home with the kids, I don’t know who will. We can’t afford childcare etc.

Or I want someone to be home with the kids or if I don’t stay home with the kids, my husband’s going to get really upset and I don’t want to deal with that so I’ll just stay home with the kids. Any of those kinds of thoughts are the reason that you’re at home with the kids and your husband’s working and making whatever he’s making. Now, again, I’m not saying it’s wrong. I’m not saying you shouldn’t think that.

I’m just saying when you own, no, this result I have created because I have chosen this. I have chosen to live my life this way and that’s the amount of money that he’s able or willing to make right now. And so I’ve chosen to have this be my financial situation. Perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it. Just don’t sit around being resentful and blaming your husband for a result that you created. That’s not going to serve you in the end.

I see this happen with women who are stay at home moms a lot and actually it can happen with men too, but I’ve coached a lot of women on this. And they’ll say things like, “I want to spend money on this thing, but my husband will say no, he doesn’t think it’s worthwhile, a worthwhile thing to invest in. He doesn’t think I should spend that money. He’s going to be upset. He’s going to say no”, etc.

That dynamic where one of you is the parent and the other one is the child asking for money is something you’ve created with your thoughts. Now, some of you are like, “I don’t think you know my husband. He’s the one, he says to me, “This is my money”, and he doesn’t even let me. I don’t even know how much he makes. I don’t even know the bank account. He doesn’t give me access to any of it.” Okay, I hear you. I’m just saying, if you have a thought like I don’t want to fight about this or I can’t possibly do anything to change it or he’ll just be really mad and it’s not worth it.

Then you’re going to continue to let that dynamic happen in your marriage and I get it. We all have thoughts sometimes like I’m just going to go ahead and let this one go. And that’s okay, sometimes that’s the best decision to make. I’m just saying, own that you have created the result for yourself even if we go to, I created this by choosing to marry this man. And it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be married to him necessarily.

It doesn’t mean that you should go get a job. It doesn’t mean that you should put your foot down and say we are equal partners and this is our money, even though that’s the truth. It doesn’t have to mean any of that. Just begin by owning, I have created this result. And maybe I don’t even need to change the circumstance part of it.

Maybe I could stop being resentful and feeling sorry for myself and get to peace around the amount of money we have and recognize that we have plenty and that we always have what we need somehow. And we always figure it out and we always will, and we’ll make more money one day. That’s one approach. You could also figure out ways to take action and create what you want in your life. I’m all for either one.

If you want more money or you want to change your money situation, or you want to have difficult conversations with your spouse and say, “Listen, I’m not okay with this. We are equal partners and we need to have equal decision making with the money.” I’m all for whatever you want to do. But you’re going to be much more effective at doing any of that when you begin by owning that you’ve created your current result instead of making it someone else’s fault. Are you with me? Again, don’t shame yourself.

Now, for those of you that have a business, money is a really simple telling way to take a look at your brain because you are the one. If you’re the owner of the business or the founder or you’re a solopreneur, then you are the one creating the current revenue result in your business. I’m telling you, this is the best news when I tell you this.

Again, if you don’t go into judgment and shaming yourself, then recognizing that where you are financially is because of what you’ve been thinking and believing is the best news I can give you. Because it means you don’t have to figure out how right away. You don’t have to know how. You don’t begin with the how, you begin with changing what you’re thinking and believing. Your current revenue in your business is the result of your thoughts about your own ability to be successful.

Or maybe it’s your thoughts about how much money your clients have or what people would or wouldn’t be willing to pay or the value of what you offer or how hard it is to figure out business or online marketing. Or whether or not it’s worth it or whether or not it will work and be worthwhile in the end or whether or not it’s important that you show up and work when you said you were going to work. Or if it’s more important to take care of the people around you that want your immediate help. There’s just so many stories in there that are creating your current financial result.

And I’m not saying your current financial result is bad even if it’s zero or you’re in the negative. Let’s just take that off the table. Let’s stop judging it. Let’s just acknowledge, the way I’ve been thinking has created this. If I want to create something different, I’m going to have to do something different, but I’m going to have to begin by thinking something different. Because if we just do something different, we’re going to be using willpower to fight against our own belief system, and we will only be able to do that for a limited amount of time.

And we don’t want limited time success and turnaround. We want permanent turnaround and success. So yes, you’re going to have to do things different, but don’t forget to bring your brain with you. I don’t even care if you start with the action if you want to. I just don’t want you to skip the part where you take a look at what you’re thinking and believing, what do you believe about money in general? What do you believe about your business, about your clients, about what you offer? Take a look at all of it because it’s all up for grabs and it’s all creating your current money result.

Let’s talk about another area. Let’s look at your results when it comes to your current health or fitness level or your body composition or your weight, however you want to think about it. Your current body composition, health, fitness level is something we would have to figure out how to define in a circumstantial way, which is actually tough to do. People like to tell me, “I’m overweight, it’s a C.” I’m like, “That is not a C my friend.” And they’ll say, “Yes, it is, the doctor said there’s a BMI chart, there’s all these researched medically approved or proven charts and graphs that say I’m overweight.”

And I say, “I don’t care, those are still tools that somebody created. They still don’t make it necessarily a fact that you’re overweight. And if thinking I’m overweight really empowers you and motivates you from a healthy, abundant, loving place to get healthy then okay, keep that thought. But if it doesn’t, if it makes you feel bad and ashamed, then you don’t have to think that. You weigh a certain amount.” You have a certain percentage of body fat and a percentage of muscle and a percentage of whatever else your body is made up of, all the other tissues and organs and water.

And that actually changes so in any given moment your body is composed of whatever it is and then it changes from minute to minute and second to second and certainly day and week and month and year. So your current body composition though is a result of what you’ve been thinking and believing. And this is very good news because as soon as you become aware of what you’re thinking and believing and aware that they are just optional thoughts and stories, they’re not wrong, they’re not bad. You don’t need to judge yourself.

You don’t need to get mad at your mom for teaching you that, don’t do any of that, just notice, I’ve been believing that this is true. I don’t know about you, but a lot of my thoughts and stories I say out loud all the time and I make them sound kind of cute and funny and I turn them into metaphors. And other people seem to like it when I talk about those things and they agree and they add on their own thoughts. And then pretty soon, we’ve really reinforced this. But it’s all optional thinking, optional stories that is creating your results.

So if you think thoughts like I just can’t stop when the food is so good or I hate exercising. I’m not athletic. I can’t find an exercise program that I like. I don’t have time. I hate drinking all that water because then I have to pee all day. These might or might not be thoughts that I’ve had in the past, just saying. I’m too old. My body hurts now. I can’t exercise the way I used to without getting really sore or injuring myself.

Or I don’t have time to cook healthy meals. It’s too much of a pain because my kids won’t eat it and then I have to make multiple dinners and I’m not good at meal planning. I’m not good at cooking, I don’t like fruits and vegetables. I only like chocolate. How about this one, I love ice-cream, I just love it. Or some people say, “I love food. I just, I can’t help it, I just love food.” These are all thoughts. These are all stories.

I’m not saying they’re wrong. I’m not even saying I disagree with most of them because again, most of these are thoughts or stories I either still believe or have at one time. All I’m saying is those thoughts and stories are creating my current result. Let me give you one example.

I’ve told this story before, you might have heard it, but I remember having this experience. I was working with Brenda Lomeli. Hi Brenda. She’s probably not listening but, Brenda, I love you. She’s a coach I worked with years ago. She helps people with their fitness goals. And I said to Brenda, “You know what? I went to my brother’s house and he made these peanut butter cookies.” If you’re listening, Gerard, you should make those again.

I can’t remember what was in them, but I remember him saying it was something really simple like a cup of peanut butter, a cup of flour and an egg or something like that. One of those really easy, three/four ingredient type of cookies, and then he baked them. And then I happened to get there right as they’re coming out of the oven and they were hot and fresh and I could smell them and peanut butter is my weakness. And I just gobbled them all up, they probably also had sugar in them. Let me add that. Did I say sugar?

Anyway, I’ll get the recipe from Gerard and we can all make them. Here’s my point. I said, “Brenda, I smelled those cookies and I could not, not eat one. They smelled so amazing, I can’t even tell you something overcame me and before you know it, I was eating peanut butter cookies.” And she said to me, “What do you think was better, the taste or the smell?” I was like, “Oh. I mean it tasted really good.” She’s like, “Okay. And maybe you ate them really quickly.” And I did and I was also trying not to eat sweets at the time. So the shame just makes you eat even more and eat them faster.

But she’s like, “What if the smell is better?” And I thought about it. I was like, “I think you’re right. I think that most foods, anyway, smell better than they taste.” Things that smell good, they smell better than they taste, especially baked goods. And she’s like, “What if you just reminded yourself, I have gotten so much pleasure out of smelling these, I don’t even need to eat them.”

And it totally shifted things for me because I used to think I can’t go to the mall because there’s Cinnabon there and I can’t smell it because then I’ll want to eat it. Now, I go to the mall and I enjoy smelling it. And I’ve shifted my thoughts and my beliefs away from if I smell it, I’m going to have to eat it, to I can smell it and really enjoy that and not need to eat it because I know the truth, which is they don’t taste as good as they smell.

So anyway, that’s just one example of how again, back to owning your result. If you can own, I have created the body I have. Now, of course, I didn’t create my height really. I would have made myself a few inches taller if I could, but I can’t. I don’t know how to control that. But a lot of the components of our bodies we’ve created. Don’t forget too, that your result is not just the circumstance, it’s your experience of it.

So my body, the circumstance of my body, its shape, size, weight, composition, etc., is much less an important part of my result line than the way I’m thinking about it, what I’m experiencing in this body. How I feel about it, especially emotionally, because when we love our bodies, we actually take better care of our bodies. And some of you are saying, “Well, I have a chronic health condition or I have chronic pain. Are you saying I created that?” Not necessarily.

I know there are a lot of factors outside of our control, you guys, but your experience of that pain is created by what you’re thinking and believing. And I’m not saying you should be thinking positively about your pain. I’m not saying that you’re wrong for being frustrated or angry or whatever you’re feeling about your health condition. I’m just saying that what you’re thinking and believing is creating that result for you. Isn’t that good to know?

Because I want you to imagine chronic pain with a story of poor me, this is so hard. Why do I have to deal with this? Versus chronic pain with a story of this is temporary, I will figure this out and I’m tough and I can handle it. And it’s natural that you wouldn’t be able to stay in that second one all the time. It’s not what I’m saying. I want you to allow yourself the full human experience. I just want you to have the knowledge that you are creating it. You’re creating your result with your thoughts and beliefs.

Now, I want to give one other example that I feel might be on your minds, which is what if you have somebody in your life that is challenging. For example, maybe you have a child with a disability that requires a lot of care and attention, or maybe has some behavioral problems that you, as the parent are left dealing with and so you’re frustrated, overwhelmed. We might say that a circumstance in your life could be, I have a child with this particular disability or diagnosis.

Your experience of that child is being created by what you’re thinking and believing. I promise you this is true. And again, it doesn’t mean you should think positive. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m just saying the child and whether your child has a disability or your child is just a human being who is acting how children and teenagers and adult kids and all of us do. Your experience of that person is coming from your thoughts. And some of them you might want to keep, even the ones that make you feel sad or angry or frustrated.

But my guess is there are some that are available to you to question, some that are available to you to let go of. Pay attention and just again for this episode, I would just want you to own your result. My result of this experience with this child is because of what I’m thinking and believing. It’s not because of the child’s behavior. It’s not because of the child’s needs or challenges. What?

Let that blow your mind for a minute. It blows my mind all the time, and I’ve been teaching this for over nine years. But when I stop and recognize that and I open myself up to it, I can become more aware of what I’m thinking and believing. That’s the key.

Last result area I want to talk about is relationships. Take a look at your relationships in your life. What is the result for you? What’s happening in the result area of your relationships? Do you have as many friends as you want to have or are you thinking, I don’t have any friends? I don’t have many friends. I don’t have close friends. I coach people on friendship quite a lot, adults on friendship who say, “I just don’t have close friends or I invite people to things but nobody ever invites me. I always initiate, nobody seems to reciprocate.”

I promise you, it feels like the people around you are creating that result, doesn’t it? I promise you, you’re creating it with what you’re thinking and believing. Even the fact that it is a relevant topic on your mind and something that you notice or that bothers you is because of your thoughts. And again, it’s okay to have them. But your thoughts are going to show up in the results of your life in some way or another. So if you want a different result, you’re going to have to think a different story. You’re going to have to believe something different.

Here’s the irony. When we think, I don’t know anyone, I don’t have any friends here, guess what we do? We hide. We leave things early or we don’t linger anyway long to talk to people, let’s just take church, for example. I don’t have any friends in this ward. Guess what you will do if you think that? You will get up as soon as church ends and dart for the door. Guess what’s a good way to not make friends? Getting up and leaving as soon as the meetings are over before you have a chance to meet anyone.

If you think, I don’t like anybody in this ward. You’re going to do the same thing and you’re going to show up with this sort of crusty outer layer because you’re not an amazing actor or actress, you’re just not, neither am I. I might pretend, I might smile and try to be nice, but there’s going to be this sense of there’s something closed off about her. And I will not be able to connect with people from that closed off place. I will not be able to find my friends if I think I don’t have any friends.

You can’t find something you don’t think exists, you won’t. You won’t even be looking for it. You’ll avoid it. You’ll hide from it. You have to think the opposite. You have to think, I have lots of friends here. I wonder where they are. Can’t wait to find them. I bet I love most of the people here. Let me find out what’s lovable about them. I bet most of these people love me. Let me open up and connect and find my people. I bet I have a lot of people here, I have tons of friends.

Did you know that is not a fact, I have friends, I don’t have friends? Friendship itself is not a fact. It is not a circumstance, friendship is a thought. What? Let that blow your mind for just a minute. She is my friend is a thought. We can’t prove it in a court of law. We can’t draw blood and say, “Yeah, you guys are a match.” It’s just a thought, it’s just a story. People tell me all the time that we are friends and I love it. And these are people who, until they tell me that, I’ve never even spoken to in my life.

And I love being all of your friends, but I haven’t done anything to earn that, and yet I still agree with you. We are friends because you like me and I bet I would like you. And you’ve decided that we would like each other and have fun together if only we could hang out more. Friendship itself is a thought.

Even your marriage, people tell me this all the time, “My marriage is tough or we’ve struggled this year. My marriage has been really hard ever since the beginning. My marriage has been great since the beginning.” I love coaching people who say, “I’m married for the second time.” Maybe they were divorced, maybe the first spouse passed away or something. And they’ll say, “And my first husband was amazing. And this husband is amazing.” That usually is the case more when the spouse has passed away than in the divorce situation.

But I’ve coached many women who have said, “I was married before. My spouse passed away. I married again and they’re both amazing men.” And people listening on, think, that lady’s so lucky that she found two great guys to marry. But you know what I think? That lady has a brain that has some really useful thoughts and stories about husbands, about her husband. Because she was able to think and believe that about the first husband.

I have no doubt she’s thinking and believing positive thoughts, even though they might be different versions of it. She has a positive outlook on her husband and herself in relation to her husband. She has to have a lot of confidence in herself and a lot of connection with herself to have that kind of relationship, but she’s creating that marriage. She thinks it’s because she married a great guy. It’s not. It’s because of her brain. Just like if you think you married a stinker, it’s your brain.

Even if there are things that you desperately want to change, I’m all for that. I’m all for you having conversations and making changes to make the circumstances more what you wish they were. But if you’re not doing that, it’s because of what you’re thinking and believing. And maybe you are in a marriage that we all would want to think is terrible. Maybe you are in an abusive situation, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. Staying in that marriage, not leaving is because of what you’re thinking and believing.

And again, do not start judging yourself or feeling bad about it because I know these things are complicated. So I’m not saying that you should feel bad about it. I’m just saying if you changed your thought from, I can’t leave. I don’t know where to go. I have no one. I can’t make it on my own, to I can figure this out or something along those lines. You would take a different action.

And when you’re ready, there are a lot of people who want to help you to make that mindset change and to create what you want in your life. But begin by owning, I am creating this current result in my life. And when you completely own it, you can decide if you want to change your experience of the circumstance and/or change the circumstance. Don’t just change the circumstance without owning the result, because you’ll probably find yourself creating the exact same result with the new circumstance.

Thanks for joining me today, everybody on result ownership. If you have questions, bring them to me on Instagram in my DMs, that’s the best way to reach me. If you have podcast topic requests, I’d love to hear from you too. Let’s hang out on the social medias, why not? I’ll see you there. Take care.

Coaching changed my life and I’ve watched it change the lives of thousands of men and women since, but is it right for you? You’ll only know by giving it a try. Try it out today at jodymoore.com/trial.

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Happiness might be the term you use to define the emotion you want to feel, or how you want to experience the world. However, as this podcast’s name suggests, I believe happiness is an oversimplification of what we really want, and that there’s so much more to living a full life than simply being happy all the time.

A more accurate word for what we’re all actually seeking is freedom. We all have different ideas of what would make us free, and we fiercely protect our agency. The path to freedom appears to be about navigating the world more carefully or becoming a version of ourselves that we deem acceptable or worthy, but the truth is this never leads to true freedom.

Join me this week to hear how you might be unknowingly trapping yourself, and three strategies that will set you free. I’m showing you the power of mindset awareness, emotional maturity, and allowing for yourself and others to have the full human experience, and why cultivating these skills gives you the opportunity to set yourself free.

Join me for a 3-day virtual workshop called The Art of Happiness, happening Wednesday, July 12th 2023 through to Friday, July 14th 2023. It’s only $19, so click here to register!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* 3 strategies that will set you free when you feel stuck or trapped. * Why I believe freedom is a more accurate word for what we all seek. * What attempting to protect our freedom can look like. * How we unknowingly keep ourselves trapped. * Why nothing has been more powerful for me or my clients than group coaching.

Mentioned on the Show:

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Brad Jensen
Brooke Castillo

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 411, How to Set Yourself Free.

Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hey there everybody, welcome to the podcast today. I want to give you some strategies, three specific strategies that have helped me so much to set myself free. I’m going to tell you what I mean by that and I want to start by talking about happiness. Happiness is the word that we tend to use when we think about what we’re trying to feel or how we want to experience the world. It’s a nice pretty word but I think it’s a kind of an oversimplification of what we actually want. That’s why I call this contest Better Than Happy.

I’m a fan of happiness but I think there’s a lot to having a full life. And a full life is better than just simply being happy all the time. I do have a course I’m teaching though in July, it’s coming up pretty soon that you should for sure join me for. It’s $19, it’s a mini course and it’s called The Art of Happiness. I want to dive into a little bit though today and I want to begin by talking about freedom. So I’ll tell you a little bit more about The Art of Happiness but in short if you choose to join me you can go to jodymoore.com/trial.

Let’s begin by talking about freedom for just a minute here. I think that freedom is probably a more accurate word for what we all seek and what actually drives us in the end than happiness. Another word for freedom might be agency. If you’re a member of the LDS faith or you have a similar belief system, we believe that God gave us agency. He sent us here to Earth and gave us the ability to think, act and feel any way that we choose to feel.

That ultimately we have the ultimate authority and freedom over ourselves and the choices that we make in each of those areas will determine our experience and lead to a lot of other things but we all have agency. And I find it so fascinating that we fiercely protect this agency. We are highly suspicious of and leery of anyone that we feel is trying to manipulate us or in some way infringe upon our agency. Sometimes we call it freedom. Sometimes we call it agency. I mean them in a similar way today in this episode.

And we all have different ideas about what would make us the most free. This is where things get political. And I’m not going to get into political issues, but if you look at how fiercely people fight for their political views it’s because they’re trying to protect agency and freedom on both sides. Because if we don’t have some laws and regulations and rules then other people can act out in ways that infringe on another person’s agency. And so some order of regulation or consequences etc. is necessary to protect people who otherwise may have their agency infringed upon or their freedom.

And on the other hand if we have too many rules or the wrong kind of rules of regulations we’re infringing on people’s agencies. Nobody wants to feel stuck or trapped, everybody wants to feel free in the end, even though we have different ideas about how to create that freedom. So I want to take it to a more personal individual level here on this episode. We’re not going to get into global issues or politics but I want you to think about how much your spirit naturally fights for and defends your agency.

And when you don’t do that, when you neglect that part of you, how negatively that impacts you, how bad you start feeling about yourself. We, all of us I should say, not just you, me too, all of us. We start feeling down and discouraged and bad about ourselves if we don’t protect our freedom and our agency. So it will show up in different ways for different people but for many of us it sounds like thoughts like don’t tell me what to do, don’t put me in a box, don’t judge me.

I don’t want to be judged because I don’t want to be misunderstood because that’s a form of feeling trapped. If I’m misunderstood and judged I feel trapped. I feel like I have to change or manipulate myself in order to win others’ approval. That is a form of being trapped. Don’t try to control me or want me to be different than I am. That makes me feel stuck and trapped. That infringes on my agency. So that’s one way at which it shows up for many of us.

Also it’s, hey, other people in my life or in the world, be this way, do these things so that I can move freely in the world the way that I want to. Be a good kid so that I can feel like a good mom. Again, pass laws etc., or discuss principles at church in a way that I can receive well so that I don’t feel stuck or judged or manipulated or trapped. Sometimes that’s how this feels like our freedom’s infringed upon, or our agency. Even our judgment of ourselves is about freedom and agency.

If I believe I’m not good enough, I’m not smart enough, I’m not thin enough, I’m not righteous enough etc., then I have trapped myself. I am trapped. I’m not free to be seen and known even by myself. There is a disconnect in who I am and who I want to be. And when there is, I will be still stuck in a spin of bad habits or inaction. In other words, I’m trapped. I’m a slave to my own laziness or impulses. Are you with me?

So the path to freedom appears to be about navigating the world more carefully or changing the world more strategically or becoming a version of ourselves that we deem acceptable or worthy. But this has never led to freedom in my experience. And I will say, I have felt free at times, many times. I feel free every time I ride the Incredicoaster at California Adventure right outside Disneyland in Anaheim, California.

I feel free when I’m coaching my clients especially when I’m deep in the wrestle of it with them and suddenly words of wisdom come to my mind from what surely must be a divine source. I feel free when I watch the sun go down or when I watch the sun come up. I feel free many times in my life now and but I have felt free many times in the past, but ultimately I trap myself again over and over with my own judgments, opinions or insecurities.

And for me the tools of mindset, awareness and control, emotional maturity and allowing for both myself and others of the full human experience have been the things more than anything else that have set me free. And so today I want to give you three specific examples because I hope that all of those things are things we’re covering here on the podcast at various times. But I want to give you three specific strategies that helped me set myself free when I start feeling stuck or trapped.

Alright, number one strategy is to tell myself the truth, tell myself the truth. When I hired Brad Jensen back in 2020 to help me with my health goals, specifically I wanted to lose 20 pounds. He said to me in my intake interview with him, “Have you ever tried losing weight before?” To which I quickly replied, “Yes, I have, Brad Jensen. I have been trying to lose weight as long as I can remember, pretty much non-stop.” And he said, “Okay, great. Have you ever been successful?”

And I was able to name a couple of times when I had lost some weight. The problem was I had put all the weight back on both times. And he said, “Okay, have you tried anything else other than those two times?” And I said, “Yes, did you not hear me? I’m constantly trying to lose weight, Brad.” But then when I stopped and thought about it I realized that that was a lie, that I was lying to myself when I told myself I’m always trying to lose weight. Because I wasn’t always trying to lose weight.

You know what I was always doing? Thinking about my weight, feeling bad about my weight, obsessing about food that I ate or didn’t eat or shouldn’t eat or want to eat. I was constantly thinking about and feeling bad about my weight, which is not the same thing as trying to lose weight. Wow, this was sort of mind blowing to me. And you know what at the same time, it was so freeing to tell myself that truth, to say to him, “Actually I’ve only tried losing weight a couple of times and I lost weight both of those times.”

And all the rest of the time I have had all kinds of noise and nonsense and drama in my head but I have not actually tried to lose weight. What a gift it was for me to own that because that was the truth. So in what way is this going to be relevant for you? I used to talk to people who were considering going to school and getting a college degree or finishing a degree that they had started. I worked for a for profit university and I talked to potential students every day, multiple times, many of them I talked to dozens of times before they ever started class.

And they used to say to me, “Yeah, once I get my degree, this will change or that will happen or I’ll open up these doors for myself in my life worlds or I’ll set this example for my children.” And they felt really good when they talked about that. And I was really happy for them when they talked about that. But what I realized after a while is that they felt like they were working on getting their degree by talking to me. I was an admissions counselor. They had an admissions counselor and therefore they felt like they were working on getting their degree or finishing their degree.

I envisioned them going to parties, telling friends, “Yeah, I’m going to get my degree. I’m working on finishing up my degree. “But the truth is if they were still talking to me it meant they hadn’t stepped foot in class yet. They hadn’t registered for school or they at least hadn’t attended any more classes than what they started in years past. And I had to start pointing out the truth to them.

“You feel like you’re working on getting your degree because you’re talking to me every week on the phone but listen, we need to register you for class. And you need to attend class and do the work and earn more credit or else you are no closer to having your degree than before you and I ever met.” That was the truth. And I offered it to them as a gift. Where is this showing up in your life? Are you telling herself that you’re trying to get clients in your business?

And if so, is that really true or is what’s true that you’ve put a few things out there randomly without much strategy or focus? Or you’ve talked to some people about your expertise and shared it a little bit? Or you’re taking classes or listening to podcasts about how to grow your business and you’re telling yourself that you’re working on your business.

That’s not true unless you strategically sit down and decide what you’re doing and then you start building the pieces that are necessary to attempt what you’re trying to do, strategically with focus and intention knowing where you’re going. And what the steps are you believe to get there. Now, that plan might change as you try it out, but if you don’t have a strategic plan that you understand, why you’re talking to people and what you want to offer to them next then you’re not trying to get clients. You’re just talking about your area of expertise to people that will listen.

Or you’re just listening and learning and there’s nothing wrong with talking to people and there’s nothing wrong with listening and learning. I just want you to tell yourself the truth. Every time I tell myself the truth I set myself free. I go from being stuck and trapped and frustrated of why isn’t this working to freedom. It’s not working because I’m not showing up. I’m not doing what’s necessary to get it to work in my life. Some of you are doing this with just the coaching tools and the mindfulness that I teach you here on the podcast.

I’m so grateful that you listen to this podcast but you’re not doing the work until you come in and apply it in a real way. So come to the Art of Happiness if you want to see what that is like.

Let’s move on to the second tool I want to offer to you that will set you free, which is to assume that nothing is wrong with you or anyone else. So after you do number one, where you tell yourself the truth, I’m actually not working on my business. I’m not working on my fitness goals. I don’t actually want to lose weight as much as I want to eat licorice. When you tell yourself the truth then if you’re like me you’re going to be tempted to judge it. You’re going to want to move right from the truth into shoulds and shouldn’ts.

You’re going to start telling yourself that you should want something different or you should be working harder on your goals. And this is also a lie because if you should or shouldn’t it means something’s wrong. You’re doing something wrong or there’s something wrong with you. But there is nothing wrong with you, nothing is wrong. There’s nothing wrong with not actually wanting to pursue your goals, there’s really not. It doesn’t matter at all.

So just remember, you have good reasons for where you’re at when you tell yourself the truth. I promise you have good reasons for it. Even if some of your reasons are rooted in pain and hurt and fear, you still have good reasons for it. It’s called the human condition. And telling yourself the truth and not judging it, doesn’t mean you’re just embracing the truth and you’re going to stay stuck there forever. It means the opposite actually. Well, I should say, it gives you the opportunity to create the opposite. It gives you the opportunity for leverage and progression.

We do not have as much authority over ourselves when we lie to ourselves. We keep ourselves trapped in lies and we keep ourself trapped in judgment but the truth is where freedom lies and the truth without judgment is even better. So that is true for your observations of yourself and it’s also true for all of them, for your observations, of all of them, them being any other person in the world. There is nothing wrong with them. They’re not doing it wrong.

This is a really hard concept to grasp I know but try it on with me. You and I don’t know what other people should or shouldn’t do or feel or be like. We don’t know. We think we know. We have a lot of ideas and opinions about how they should be and I promise you, we don’t. We do not know what it’s like to be them. We don’t know where they’re coming from. We don’t know what would serve them best in the end.

I was just talking to a friend of mine. We were talking about another mutual friend who we were both worried about. And we both share, this friend of mine who I’m talking to, we both share the same opinion about what this other friend should do. And all of a sudden I said, “What if we’re wrong? What if she shouldn’t be doing that at all?” Because she doesn’t seem to be listening to us. She doesn’t want to hear our advice. What if we’re wrong? What if she is making the right choice? We don’t know what other people should do.

Recently I was on Instagram and I clicked the little like button, the little heart button, on a reel. It was a reel from my favorite clothing store of all time, Anthropology. They posted a reel and the reel happened to be of a man dancing around in Anthropology clothes. You know those reels where somebody’s wearing an outfit and then they jump and then they’re suddenly in a new outfit and it feels like magic?

It was one of those kind of reels and the man was dancing around in pants and a t-shirt and then he jumped and he was suddenly dancing around in a really frilly red dress. And then he jumped and he was suddenly in a pink tank top and a new pair of pants. And I clicked like because I liked it. I thought it was fun and creative and it was pretty and the man was very happy and the music was happy. And I just clicked like and scrolled right on by.

I didn’t think anything of it until one of my followers wrote me an email explaining to me how terrible I am and how she just can’t believe that I would like a post like that of a man wearing women’s clothes. And how disgusted she is with me and how her husband’s the bishop and whatever else. I was like, “This is so fascinating.” We think people shouldn’t like that stuff on Instagram. People shouldn’t post that but we certainly shouldn’t like it. And I’m just fascinated by it all.

And here’s the other thing, even as I tell you this story, it’s my brain thinking that she shouldn’t write me an email like that. And she shouldn’t have opinions about what I should like, but guess what? Maybe she should. Maybe she should have strong opinions about what I like or dislike on Instagram. And she should write to me and tell me. I don’t know what she should do. Maybe that made her feel better in some way. Maybe she is justified.

So it’s just so fascinating how much we all are in everyone else’s business. And my point here is that that is a trap. It keeps us trapped and stuck to be focused on what everyone else is doing wrong, it really is. You set yourself free by going, “I guess that’s what he or she should do. I guess she should write me that email, I guess.” That’s how I free myself is I stop spinning on how she shouldn’t say those things. And I just go to, I guess that’s the way she navigates the world. In some way that makes her feel better or it’s just what she chooses in any regard.

And I just let go of focusing on it, doesn’t mean I have to go all the way to what everybody does is beautiful and lovely and right. It’s just none of my business actually what they do. That is how you set yourself free. You stop thinking that other people’s lives and decisions and even emotions are your business to own. It doesn’t mean you don’t care about how other people feel. It means you don’t take responsibility for how other people feel. There is a big difference and it will set you free to understand the difference.

And this brings us to the third and final tool I want to offer you today that will set you free. And this is one of my favorite ones. And I haven’t talked about this one much so listen up. You will set yourself free when you start exposing yourself to the truth of other people. Let me say that again and then I’ll explain what I mean. Expose yourself to the truth of other people. Here’s what’s interesting. We’re all surrounded by people all the time, most of us, unless you live maybe out somewhere very secluded and you don’t see people a lot.

But if you get online or you turn on the TV then you’re still surrounded by people. We’re all surrounded by people all the time but we’re not surrounded by the truth of other people very often and that’s okay. We don’t need to be all the time, but you need to do it on occasion.

So I just went to school, to the elementary school and picked my kids up from school. And I go to the area where, one of the areas I should say where the parents wait, where the kids come out. And there’s always a bunch of parents there, a bunch of dads and moms and grandmas and grandpas and all kinds of caregivers there waiting for their kids. And so I recognize and I know some of the parents there. Some of them are my friends in my neighborhood, some of them I go to church with.

And so it’s not uncommon that we will say hi, maybe make some small talk about how’s your day going, what have you got going on for the summer, what did you think about the weather today? This is what the conversation sounds like at school pickup and we’re all very polite and we keep it light because we don’t have a long time. We’re just there to get our kids and then we’re going to go. So it’s perfectly appropriate that we’re just polite and kind of surface level and nothing wrong with that. But that’s what most of our interactions have turned into or they are contrived on social media.

They are preplanned and thought out and set up to give you a certain experience. That’s okay, but I want you to on occasion expose yourself to the truth of other people. The real truth, not the guarded, pretend, appropriate truth. This has set me free, listening to people’s real stories, hearing about their real struggles, caring about their happiness and also their sadness. And when I hear other people who are stuck then it’s so much easier for me to see the way out for them.

I hear other people’s stories and I see how they’re reacting to their situation and it’s so much easier than in my own situation to see the way out. Or I hear people tell stories about when they were stuck in some way and how they set themselves free and I’m inspired by those stories. And I get information and inspiration about how to free myself. And one amazingly powerful way to do this is through group coaching.

Nothing has been more powerful for me or my clients than group coaching because it connects us and it makes it so much easier for us to do number one and number two. To tell ourselves that truth because we will see our truth show up in other people. And to not judge ourselves or others for the truths that we see because we start seeing that we all have similar patterns. We have similar issues keeping us stuck and we all have a valid reason for it.

So I will tell you, the number one question I get from people who are considering working with a coach is, “How can I get individual help from you, Jody, I want individual help. I don’t want group calls.” It’s what everyone thinks they need and it’s what almost nobody needs. I know this because I’ve been a coach now for nine years. And for the first few years I coached people privately.

I did individual coaching and it was great but it took easily three to six months of coaching for someone to get the progress that now my clients get in three to six weeks and that is not an exaggeration. And the reason why is because when you’re in the thick of your issues it’s tough to see. It’s tough to see what’s going on. It feels like just the reality of your situation. It feels like you’re just observing the world around you. But when you see it through the lens of someone else’s circumstance, it becomes very clear and then very easy to apply it to yourself.

A few years ago, many years ago actually when I was a brand new coach I was attending a live event and Brooke was coaching. And the woman that she was coaching, I will never forget this moment. She was trying to decide if she should accept a job offer that she had or keep working on growing her own business. And this felt like a big decision. Her income and livelihood depended on it. And she had a lot of dreams and goals. And she wanted to do the right thing and she was loving her business.

And it seemed like it was starting to get traction but this opportunity felt like a golden opportunity. It was a really great opportunity. And she didn’t want to let something pass her by and she couldn’t decide. And I remember thinking that yeah, this is a difficult choice and she should really think through it. And as Brooke coached her, they went round and round discussing it. And Brooke was continuously pointing out to her that either one would be great and it really didn’t matter. And I kept thinking okay, yeah, but also it kind of does matter.

Until Brooke said, “The decision you make will not create your result.” In other words, whether you take this job or you say no and you keep working on your new business, that is not going to create your result, the decision goes in the circumstance line. Now, if you’ve been listening to me for a while or you’re in Be Bold you know what I mean by that. If you’re new to me, it doesn’t matter. I don’t want to get off on a tangent on what that means.

All I want to say is when I heard Brooke say that and I remember seeing her write on the board the decision right next to the C line, I was like, “Oh my goodness, I never thought of it that way before, but she’s right.” I saw it so clearly and I’ll tell you what that did for me. It wasn’t just a little interesting insight I got. I am so much better at decisions than most people I know. And that’s not to say I make the best decisions. It’s just to say I make decisions.

I do not waste very much energy or time in indecision. And this is why my business is so successful. This is why I move so quickly through things that I want to accomplish. This is why I have a lot of energy because with decisions comes momentum. Indecision is like a ball and chain. Decisions are like wings. And even though it’s scarier to fly than to stay on the ground, flying gets you somewhere fast. And all of that isn’t because I’m just so confident or I was born this way. No, it’s because of that one coaching session I saw years ago that shifted everything in my mind around decisions.

So I want you to come and experience group coaching. I want you to see for yourself because, again, everybody thinks they need private coaching. And if you want private coaching, I’m in, go hire a private coach. I don’t do it anymore because I’m way more effective, my clients get much better results in a group setting. This is the most common response I get, when we put a call out to our members in Be Bold and we will say, “Hey, give us some feedback. How’s it going? Is this working? Is this helping you? What would you say to someone considering joining Be Bold?”

And the most common thing we hear is a version of, “I have never been coached live and this has changed my life.” That is what we hear over and over again. So come and join me for the Art of Happiness, it’s $19. What have you got to lose? If you can’t be there live we’ll be sending out replays daily. If you’re curious about coaching, come and join me. If you’re in Be Bold already, we’re going to post the Art of Happiness there. So you don’t need to worry about paying the $19. But for everybody else, come and check it out at jodymoore.com/trial. I’ll see you there. Thanks for joining me today.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

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One of the main things I hear from entrepreneurs that prevents them from making the impact they want to have or seeing the success they’re chasing is the fear of receiving negative feedback, haters online, or judgment from their close friends and family.

Business building requires some stumbling along the way, and the fear of having people laugh at you, getting something wrong, or accidentally offending someone is real. Lots of people will tell you not to worry, and that there will be more people who appreciate you and are cheering you on than not. This is true. But what’s also true is that there will be people who get angry at you or mock you, especially as you become more successful.

Join me this week to discover how to get over yourself if you’re fearful of the negative criticism and judgment that is part and parcel of business building. I’m showing you why this fear is normal, how to recognize that it can’t actually hurt you, and the decisions you get to make when you receive hate.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why a fear of negative feedback and judgment is normal in business. * How to recognize that there is zero danger in judgment and criticism. * 3 decisions you get to make when you receive hate.

Mentioned on the Show:

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Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice
I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: How to Get Over Yourself.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.Alright everybody listen, one of the main things that I hear from entrepreneurs, that prevents them from making the impact they want to make. From achieving the goals that they have for themselves, from seeing the success they want is fear of negative feedback. Fear of criticism. Fear of haters online canceling them or attempting to cancel them or just judgments that even their close friends or family will have as they watch them struggle and stumble as we all do as we try to build businesses.

Fear of what people will think. Fear of people laughing at us, thinking who does she think she is, how ridiculous is that. Fear of judgment. Fear of accidentally offending someone or getting something wrong and then receiving whatever backlash comes from that, whether it be people’s judgments or literal more severe backlash. That kind of fear, can you relate to this? Do you have any of this?

So here’s what I want to tell you. It’s real, it is. I think that a lot of times the approach that a lot of coaches take is, “Don’t worry, it’ll be fine. You’ll be fine, mostly people are going to like what you have to say.” And that’s true, most people for the most part are going to like it. Percentage wise there will be way more people who appreciate you and even strangers who are cheering you on and friends and family who are supporters, who are proud of you or who even just aren’t paying attention.

Most people in the world are just not even going to be paying attention, don’t even know about you, don’t care about what you’re doing. So that’s true, but it’s also true that there will be, there may be especially as you become successful, the bigger you get the more people become aware of you and start listening to you or following you or what have you, the more criticism you’re going to get. You’re going to get some people that are downright angry.

You’re going to get some people that are laughing at you, mocking at you, people who knew you before this, people who even liked you before or who don’t like you. People who think that you’re foolish. People who think that you don’t know what you’re talking about and you’re taking a leap that is going to be harmful to you. That is real, so now what? So now we have to get over ourselves. We have to get over that ego part of us that is afraid of that judgment. We have to recognize that there is zero danger in that judgment, there really isn’t, I promise you.

If you are working for a big corporation and you’re sponsored by Nike or something, then yeah, maybe cancel culture is a legitimate threat to you because if you do something and get ‘canceled’, Nike might drop you from their contract. But my guess is that most of you if you run a business, anything like mine, you’re not sponsored by a big corporation. It doesn’t matter, you don’t have a TV show that you’re worried about getting canceled. You’re not on a news program that you’re going to get kicked off of.

So nobody’s going to ‘bring down your business’. That type of threat, I don’t think, I mean not that it’s not possible but I just think it’s highly unlikely so I wouldn’t worry about that. When I say it’s real, what I mean is people judging you, people having opinions, people leaving negative comments, people emailing you to tell you that they don’t like you, people DMing you, people leaving that kind of feedback or secretly judging you. That part is real. That part is not dangerous.

So, a couple of things I want you to keep in mind. First of all, whenever somebody criticizes me, and this has to do with whether it’s in my business or in my personal life or anything else. When somebody criticizes me I am very clear and I want you to become very clear because this is how you become empowered, that there are three possible decisions I get to make, three options.

So let’s say somebody writes me to tell me that they think I don’t know what I’m talking about and I shouldn’t have said something I said on one of my podcasts. Then I have three options. Option number one is they’re wrong. I totally disagree with them. They are whatever, they’re coming from wherever they’re coming from. I don’t mean they’re wrong in their minds but as far as I’m concerned there is zero validity in what they’re saying. That is almost never the option I go with, occasionally though.

If somebody were to write in and tell me that I’m foolish for believing in Jesus Christ and God and for being religious. Then I would choose option one and I would go, “No, they’re wrong.” That’s about them. It’s fine for them to think that but I have zero guilt or shame or anything triggering coming up for me if somebody tells me I’m dumb for believing in God. That’s option one.

Option two is they’re totally right. I should never have said whatever I said that they’re accusing me of. I messed up. I dropped the ball. Oftentimes when that’s the case and this is the case on occasion, it’s something that I already was feeling kind of cringey about. In the back of my mind I was always like, “Did I mess that up? There’s something that felt off about that to me.” And then somebody points it out and I’m like, “Yeah, I’m right there, I was thinking the same thing. I totally agree that was wrong.”

Now, again this happens on occasion in which case I get the opportunity then to make it right. By the way, sometimes I decide I messed up and nobody’s even pointed it out to me. I just decide, I didn’t feel good about that. I dropped the ball in that way or I shouldn’t have said that or that could be misunderstood. I don’t like that I said that. And so that’s an option too, if you just feel like you ‘messed up’ in some way. Then I get to go back and make it right. Listen, as human beings we’re going to mess up. It’s not a matter of not messing up.

I coached someone recently, and one of my awesome clients who’s an entrepreneur who said, “I made a mistake and I realize I need to go learn more so that I cannot make mistakes.” And I was like, “Good one.” I mean yeah, learn more, I’m all for you learning more but not so that you can never make mistakes. You’re always going to make mistakes at times. You’ll master one level then the next level you’ll be making mistakes at. The question isn’t how do I never make a mistake? The question is what do I want to do once I’ve made a mistake, how do I make it right?

Sometimes it’s just a simple apology. Sometimes it’s going back and saying, “You know what, I’m going to apologize for this. And I want to restate what I believe. I misrepresented or I misspoke and I didn’t understand and I was ignorant and I didn’t know that and now I know better. And I apologize if I’ve offended anyone.” Sometimes that’s all it takes. Sometimes it’s more than that. Sometimes it’s a refund to a client or something like that. But there are times when it’s like, “Yeah, you’re right. I messed that up and here’s how I’m going to make it right.”

It doesn’t mean you’re a terrible person. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have a business. Doesn’t mean you’re not going to be successful. It means you’re a human being, you made a mistake, it’s going to happen again.

And then the third option and this is the most common one I find is somebody sends me an email or a DM or they comment on something telling me that they’re offended, they’re hurt, they don’t like something I said or did or whatever. And a big part of me stands by what I said I did. The majority of me thinks, no, I don’t regret that, I don’t take that back. I would do it again but there is a little part of me that’s triggered, a little part of me that wants to get defensive or a snap back at them or engage in some kind of argument or now start accusing them of doing something wrong.

That’s how I know that there’s a little percentage of me that agrees with them, that either that situation was in some way wrong or inappropriate or if not that one, at least I know I am guilty at times of the thing they’re accusing me of. There are times when I say things I don’t know what I’m talking about or when I make poor choices or whatever they’re accusing me of. So with that option I get to make peace with all of it. And whether or not you acknowledge the person or apologize, that’s up to you, I take that on a case by case basis.

I ask myself, what feels like me at my best, do I need to, is the part of me that thinks this was wrong a big enough part that I want to apologize or not? Oftentimes the answer is no. If, again, if most of me stands behind what I did, I will simply do the work in my own mind of making peace with, you know what, they’re wrong. You’re not a terrible person and you didn’t mess it up and they’re kind of right, I can see where they’re coming from. And you make peace with it and you say, “Thanks for your feedback, have a lovely day.” And send them on their way.

So that is where the majority of it falls for me. When I get criticism and I don’t know, I don’t think I get a lot of it because I do shield myself from it. And that’s okay to do as well by the way. You don’t have to read everybody’s negative reviews, you really don’t. But there’s a certain percentage of it I want to know about. I want to know when there are patterns and sometimes I do just, it just ends up in my life in some way. So majority of it falls in that number three category, where majority of me stands behind what I did.

But a little part of me is triggered which means at least a little part of me agrees with them and I make peace with that. I make peace with the fact that I am a complicated, messy, imperfect human, okay so now what?

So this brings me to my final point I want to make of how to get over yourself. You’re going to have to get over yourself to really show up big in the world. You’re going to have to get over your ego, that worries that you don’t look good in your reel, that you didn’t sound good. That you didn’t say it the right way, that people are going to judge it. And I’ll tell you what, if you’ve been one of those people and we all have at times, but if you have a habit of judging other people this is going to be especially scary. That’s why I try not to walk around finding fault with other entrepreneurs because it makes it much harder for me to go and do my job.

But this is what I like to think about. Whatever it is that you do in your business, I’m going to use this as a metaphor and you can apply it to whatever service you provide to people in the world or whatever product you provide and whatever way it makes their life better. I want you to imagine that what you do in your business is like rescuing a drowning person, especially if you’re a coach. It’s sort of what we’re doing, we’re rescuing people who are drowning in whatever way they’re drowning.

So I want you to imagine you’re in your little boat, you see someone drowning and you row out there in your boat to rescue them. And as you’re rowing, people are standing on the shoreline mocking you, laughing at you, telling you that you don’t row right, that your boat is ugly, that you don’t know what you’re doing, that you shouldn’t be rescuing that person. Meanwhile the person is out there drowning, they need your help. Are you going to go, “I’m sorry, I can’t help you because these people are mocking me.”

Or are you going to block all of them out and ignore them and go get that person that needs your help and get them in your boat and save their life? That is what I want you to do. And I want you to focus on the person that wants and needs your help and go help them. Get over yourself. Be willing to be ridiculed and mocked. Here’s the good news, the more you do it, the better you get at it. And then you gain more fans than critics.

You’ll actually always have more fans than critics but as you get better and more successful, the common chant that instead of being like, “That’s so sweet, that’s so cute what you’re doing”, becomes, “Wow, how did you do that? How did you do that?” Now, again, we’re not doing it for that reason but that is how the narrative shifts but you’ll still always get criticism. I still get it, I still do. I still get people offended at things that I’ve said, things that I’ve done. I still get people probably mocking me. I don’t know. I don’t really pay attention to it to be honest.

But I know it’s still there. I know it still exists. My team gets it. That’s just the reality of it. So what’s up, are you in anyway? Are you going to get over yourself? I hope you will. I hope you will because we need what you have to offer.

Alright, thanks for joining me today. As always I have a free course for all my entrepreneurs that you must check out if you haven’t already. It’s at jodysfreetraining.com and make sure you check it out because it will get you a successful business if you implement what I teach you there. It’s so simple and so powerful. It’s how I built my business, all my secrets, go check it out, jodysfreetraining.com. I’ll see you next time. Bye.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: How to Get Over Yourself appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I was lucky enough to visit the Amish community in Lancaster, PA, and after exploring and finding out about their culture, I learned some valuable lessons. I’m sharing them on today’s podcast because I think we can all take some value from what I experienced there.

Amish people live a very different life to us. They don’t use electricity or drive cars, and they live a very simple, slow life. The Amish believe in simplifying life and slowing down, at least relative to the rest of us. They don’t see a need to rush around, complicate things, and be in a hurry, and what I learned taught me a whole lot about how we react when we’re stressed, overwhelmed, or anxious.

Tune in this week to discover what I learned from the Amish. I’m not ready to abandon my television, my computer, or my car, but what I learned from the Amish community about slowing down and simplifying my life has changed my outlook forever, and I think these lessons will benefit everyone listening to this podcast.

If you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. It’s available now on Amazon in print or Kindle version.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why I loved my time in Amish Country. * How, when we’re stressed, our primal tendency is to leave our homes and spend time in nature. * Why the Amish never have to escape the chaos of home. * What it means to truly be where you are and how this serves our mental and emotional health. * How I’m trying to be where I am, and how to see the opportunities that you have to do the same.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Time Out for Women
Melinda Brown: Brave Like Eve
Leah Davidson

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 410, What I Learned from the Amish.

Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining me today. Recently, about a month ago I had the opportunity to travel to Lancaster, Pennsylvania and I apologize if I’m saying the name of the city wrong. I was taught how to say it but I’m probably still getting it wrong, I apologize. Anyway I got to go there with Time Out for Women. It was our last stop on the tour and what an awesome experience that’s been the last year and a half to get to speak at Time Out for Women. And what a beautiful way to wrap it up there in Lancaster.

So as many of you probably know, Lancaster is known as Amish country. There is a large population of Amish and Mennonites who live there. And I had a little bit of time. I flew in Thursday night, the event was Friday evening and all day Saturday. And so I had a little bit of time, Friday, during the day to go and explore Amish country. And I wanted to go see it. I wanted to go learn a little bit more about Amish culture and the Amish people and so I did. And my friend Michelle went with me and it was amazing.

So we went to this tour of this Amish farmhouse. There was this really sweet older gentleman who was our tour guide who basically just taught us a little bit about the Amish people and what they believe and why they live the way that they do. And there was a lot of really interesting things that I learned there, but one that stood out that I wanted to highlight today on the podcast is, as many of you know, Amish people do not use electricity or drive cars. And I never really knew the reason for that and according to our tour guide a big part of the reason anyway is simplicity and slowness.

They are believers in simplifying life and slowing down at least relative to the way most of us live our lives. They don’t see the reason to rush around and complicate things and be in a hurry. And technology certainly does speed things up and often cause a lot of complication and chaos in our lives.

So one of the things that our tour guide pointed out that I thought was really fascinating is he said, “Think about what we do when we’re feeling really overwhelmed or stressed or anxious. We leave our homes where we have all kinds of things happening and all kinds of technology and all sorts of modern conveniences and we go to the beach or we go to the mountains. We go be in nature because a part of our primal, if you will, mammal tendency is to connect with the Earth and simplicity.”

And the Amish simply believe in living that way all the time. They don’t have to escape the chaos of home because they keep home really simple so they don’t get as overwhelmed or stressed or anxious because they have not complicated and sped up their lives. One of the things he said that really stood out to me is he said, “They don’t have microwaves because why do you need to be in such a hurry to heat up your food?” So fascinating. And I don’t know about you but I could certainly see the logic and the wisdom there.

Now, I’m not ready to abandon my television or my computer or my car, but I did love the reminder about slowing down and simplifying. And it reminded me of another thing that I picked up as I had the opportunity to participate with Time Out for Women from my friend, Melinda Brown. Hi, Mindy. Mindy Brown is the owner of the Instagram page, Brave Like Eve if you want to go check it out. She is brilliant and wise and I love her so much. And she has a saying she likes to live by. And I hope I get this right, Mindy. I believe the way she said it was, “Be where you are. Be where you are.”

Isn’t that beautiful? It reminded me of, well, I should say when I was learning about the Amish, it reminded me of Mindy and her commitment to be where she is. And so I want to dive into that a little bit today. I want to tell you about some of the ways that I try to be where I am in the hopes that you will think about opportunities to do that in your life because I do think it serves our mental and emotional health to slow down and be where we are. I think it creates a more beautiful, rich life experience.

And I think it serves our relationships both with our friends and family and even our spiritual relationship with God and Christ as we slow down, simplify and choose to be where we are. So the first thing that came to my mind was I like to go to conferences and workshops and live events where there are people speaking or teaching. And so all those things I go to on a regular basis like church every week. But I also like to sign up to go to special things where I’m going to learn more or be motivated in some way.

And I even get the opportunity nowadays to sometimes be a speaker or teacher at these types of events. And I’ve always loved things like this. I’ve always loved a motivational speaker or a conference or a workshop. I got to go to a lot in my corporate days but I continue to go to a lot even on my own. And one of the things I’ve noticed is this journey that people seem to take where when we’re brand new to something and we feel like the newbie or the rucky maybe, we tend to be really excited and we’re really engaged and we’re really good at being where we are.

We get there on time, we maybe even want to get there a little early so we can get the best seat and we’re sitting up close and we’re taking notes and we’re paying attention and we’re soaking it all in and it’s great. And then after a while, if you’re like me anyway, we start to think that we know this stuff now and now we’re an expert and now we’re a pro. And maybe now we roll in late, we leave early, we’re not as engaged. We’re distracted by our phones or other things. We’re talking with others.

We sort of start halfway checking out of things. And then once you think you’re a real expert at it, now maybe you’re a speaker or a teacher at the workshop, now I find that people at that stage often just roll in to give their talk and then either leave or sit backstage or simply really check out. And I know this is just my thoughts, maybe someone wants to coach me on this but that bothers me. It bothers me when the other teachers and speakers think that they don’t have anything to learn anymore.

When they think they’re above this event for some reason and maybe it’s not that they think they’re above it but they’re too busy. They have too much going on to possibly be there and get anything out of this event. Or they’re already too much of an expert. I don’t think that mindset tends to serve us. If I’m going to attend an event and whether I’m a participant and I’m brand new or I’m more of a veteran as a participant, or I am one of the teachers and speakers at the event.

If I choose to attend that event I’m going to that event. I’m going to be there. Now, there are exceptions of course but overall I want to be all in. I want to add what I can and I want to take away what I can from the other speakers, teachers and attendees. I believe that I’ve got plenty to learn. And I believe there are people who maybe on paper, haven’t achieved certain goals or milestones yet that still can teach me so much. And I want to soak all that in. And I want to add positivity and anything else that I possibly can to any event I choose to participate in.

And listen, you guys, I’ve been to a lot of stuff and sometimes I get halfway through something and realize, I don’t know that I should have said yes to this. I don’t know that these are my people or that this is exactly, I’m not talking about things that are, if something’s truly offensive or wrong I would definitely exit or whatever. I’m just talking, this isn’t as exciting as I thought it would be. This isn’t what I was expecting. I’m still going to be there because I committed to be there.

I’m going to be all in and I’m going to see what I can do to add to it to make it better. I don’t leave early. I don’t come late. I stay and I participate and I try to be engaged. And for me that has allowed me to meet people, to make connections, to learn things I otherwise wouldn’t learn and to just feel good about the contribution that I’m making as I also receive a lot from these events. Now, maybe you’re not someone who goes to live events like that or not regularly but do you ever have things happening online, like a Zoom call of some sort, a Zoom meeting or class that you are participating in for whatever reason?

If I’m going to be in a class and I’m going to login on Zoom, I’m going to be there. I’m going to turn my camera on. I’m going to pay attention. Again, I’m not going to be perfect at it. I do get sidetracked by things. I do get a little distracted at times but for the most part if I’m there you can count on me being there. I recently signed up for a class with a teacher named Leah Davidson who’s brilliant and amazing and I’m learning all about the nervous system and how to regulate, how to help clients and myself regulate our nervous systems.

And when I went to sign up for it. I realized that about half of the live workshops I already have conflicts with in my schedule and I won’t be able to attend live. So before I sign up for something like that I make sure and check-in with the teacher and ask her if that’s appropriate that I’m only there 50% of the time because I don’t like to only be in something 50% of the time. I don’t like what that means, people probably assume about me. I don’t like to be so busy and I don’t like to sign up for something that I can’t truly be there for, not only for their sake but for my sake.

Because now I’m going to have to go catch up on the 50% of the classes that I can’t attend live to really get what I want to out of this class and that’s going to complicate my life. That’s going to make me busier in certain ways. So again, like I said, I’m not perfect at any of this, but that’s always my intention is to be there, to be present, to be engaged even if it’s an online situation.

The next thing that came to my mind as I was thinking about this topic is first of all obviously our phones get in the way of this. Our cell phones which we carry with us everywhere, if you’re like me it’s like an extension of me. I don’t really go anywhere without it. It’s constantly notifying me, even if it’s in my purse, then my watch buzzes on my arm notifying me of all kinds of random things which I should probably turn a lot of those off. But that phone and that technology is definitely preventing us from being where we are.

But in addition to that, I don’t know if you’re like me but another thing that does that is my AirPods. I love my AirPods. I own, I think three pairs because I lost a pair and so I bought another and then I found that first pair. But then one of them started to die so I bought a second one just in case one’s ever lost and I need to listen to them. I know that’s ridiculous. And I love them because I can listen to audiobooks, I can listen to podcasts. I can listen to the class that I missed, to Leah’s class as I go for walks, as I do the dishes, as I do all kinds of things.

And in some of those situations I think that’s totally fine and appropriate. But I have had to discipline myself to take those AirPods out at times. I like to have them in when I’m grocery shopping. If I have a list of the groceries I needed and so I don’t need too much of my brain, I can just follow the list, then I will listen to my audiobook or something while I’m grocery shopping. And I think that’s okay, except that guess what? I’m missing out on the opportunity to connect with strangers in the grocery store. Now, personally I do it because I don’t want to connect with strangers in the grocery store.

But sometimes I wonder if, maybe there isn’t an opportunity for me to help someone or to even just smile at someone. I’m so tuned out because between the groceries and what I’m listening to I don’t have the capacity to focus on one more thing. So if there is someone around me that needs my help or something, I’m probably missing it, I probably am. There’s definitely no room for the spirit to nudge me to be of service to someone between my grocery shopping and my audiobook.

But even more so what I’ve noticed is that I have started to give myself some boundaries about when I wear those AirPods at home. Because all of these little seemingly insignificant interactions that I have on a regular basis with my family get muted out a lot when I have my AirPods in because I don’t really talk to people. And here’s the best and worst part about AirPods.

If you’re like me and you have a little bit of hair that covers your ears, people don’t even know you have them in. So you can pretend you’re listening to your child talk to you but really you’re not, you’re listening to something else. Is it just me? Does anyone else do that? So the one time I definitely have put a boundary on myself is in the morning because I like to get up, go to the bathroom or whatever. And then I like to take a bath. I know, people think that’s gross but I like to bathe.

Sometimes I shower but mostly I bathe because I can put my AirPods in and just kind of sit and relax and it gives me a minute to wake up in the morning. But after I get out of the bath and get dressed I take my AirPods out because I didn’t used to. And then my husband would come in from exercising and he’d be showering and getting ready and we just wouldn’t be talking to each other. No dialogue between us because I’m listening to something.

Or my two elementary school kids who I get up and out the door for school, they talk to each other but I didn’t have a lot of dialogue with them because I was listening to my audiobook. And I realized that I’m missing out on these opportunities to connect with my family. So after I get dressed the AirPods come out and maybe I get to listen to them again later on my walk or something.

But I had to put boundaries around myself because again, just like the Amish say, I’m complicating my life. I’m speeding it all up and I’m sacrificing something really beautiful and valuable and natural in the name of I don’t know what. I don’t know what the hurry is. So I don’t know. If you’re like me and need to monitor the AirPods.

One last thing I want to mention that came to my mind as I was preparing this episode is years ago in church a woman said that she tries to leave her house when she’s going somewhere. She leaves her house 15 minutes earlier than she thinks she needs to so that she can be available if there is somebody along the way that she feels prompted to connect with or help out or serve in some way. And I thought, whoa, that’s impressive. I don’t know about you but I tend to leave my house five minutes later than I thought I needed to.

And so I’m constantly rushing to try to get places on time. And so I probably do miss a lot of opportunities. I mean maybe there’s literally somebody on the side of the road that needs help that I don’t have time to stop and help. Or maybe it’s less dramatic, maybe it’s just as I’m walking into church, maybe there’s an old friend I see in the hallway from another ward. But I don’t really have time to stop and ask how they’re doing because I’m late for church. So I love the idea of leaving 15 minutes earlier than I think I need to, giving myself a 15 minute buffer.

And again I don’t do this 90% of the time but 10% of the time I do, 10% of the time I remember that woman’s comment and I give myself a little buffer of a window so that I can be on the lookout for something. And it might be something for someone else. And it might be something for me. It might be a minute of lingering in my car a little bit longer and having some peace and quiet or finishing listening to a song or something. And again, it slows down my life.

It minimizes some of the stress and anxiety that come from this hustle culture that all of us are living in for the most part, except for the Amish. Now, I get it, this requires planning. You’ve got a lot of things you want to get done. You’ve got a lot of priorities and things that you want to be able to do in your life. I know, I understand. I just don’t want you sacrificing the quality of your life now thinking that there’s some arrival point you’re going to get to at which everything’s going to slow down and simplify and get easier and then you’re going to be able to relax and enjoy it all.

Again, I’m speaking of myself as much as anyone but if I’ve learned anything it’s that that day doesn’t come very often. I have to choose to slow down and simplify and enjoy my life, create peace, create slowness right now. There’s not a magic arrival point at which it then becomes easier. So this has been true in my business, this is true in my family, this is just true in life. Everything around us is telling us, hurry up, do it now, you can do more, cram it in, we’ll make it faster. We’ll make it more convenient. We’ll make it all easier to fit in so you can do more.

And at some point it’s just useful to pause and ask yourself, why? Why do we need more? And what are we sacrificing in the name of more? And do we like our reason for all of that? It’s just a useful question to pause and ask. It’s a question that I paused and asked myself after visiting Amish country. So thank you to the Amish for that example.

Have an amazing, beautiful rest of your week. Thank you for listening to the podcast. And if you love this podcast, I would love for you to share it with a friend and make sure that you’re subscribed and following so you don’t miss an episode. I’ll see you next time.

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Whether you’re a coach, a healer, an expert, or anybody else with a service-based business model such as a coaching program or a course, the better we can refine your offer, the easier it becomes to grow your business. So, if you want to know what’s wrong with your offer, this episode is for you.

What most business owners do is create an offer that would have suited their needs in the past, before they knew what they teach others. This approach can work well, and it’s how I started my business. However, there is a trap entrepreneurs fall into when creating and marketing their offers, and I’m here to help you avoid it.

Tune in this week to discover what’s wrong with your offer. I’m discussing my own story of creating my first offer after experiencing the benefits of coaching and showing you how to create an offer that people really want to buy.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Where entrepreneurs tend to go wrong in creating and marketing their offers. * Why selling a solution people don’t know they need yet doesn’t work. * How to make your offer the compelling solution your potential clients are looking for.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice
1. Shame, Pride, Confidence, and Humility
I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: What Might Be Wrong With Your Offer.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.Okay, listen, people, I want to talk to all of you especially if you’re a coach, a healer, an expert and you have some kind of a service based coaching program or courses or something like that or a service that you offer to people. The better we can dial in your offer, the easier it will be to grow your business. Think about it, if you have an offer, meaning whatever it is that you sell people, whatever people sign up for and what they get at the end of working with you.If people really want it, if it’s exactly what they have been looking for and it sounds like it will solve whatever challenge you solve, then it’s going to be so much easier to market it and sell it in the end. If you can describe it succinctly, if it’s exactly what they want and it addresses their problem in a new and different way, that’s the easiest way to grow your business. And this is why when I help people I always like to start with the offer. Now, I want to say that most of, I’m going to say coaches but I mean I’m trying to include all of you. If you’re a healer or an expert or something, just bear with me for a minute.

What most coaches do, is they create an offer for a person who is them before they learned what they now know. And that’s not a bad thing. It’s okay that your niche or your client avatar or your ideal client, whatever you want to call it, that person is you before you discovered what you now know and teach others. That is the case for most of the coaches I work with. That’s the case for me certainly. I don’t think that’s wrong.

But where we go wrong is then we offer them what we realized we needed and what we want now instead of what we thought we needed or wanted back before we had the transformation we had. Here is what I mean. I first found coaching when I was young, I was going to say newly married but I had two kids, so not that newly married but within the first, what would that have been? Five or six years of my marriage, maybe it was around the 6th or 7th year.

Anyway, newer in my marriage, newish mom, super young kids, working in corporate, overwhelmed, overweight, unhappy, money problems, all those things. That is when I found coaching actually coincidentally through my corporate job but then I figured out it was like magic in my personal life. And so I think about that version of me, the young mom who felt guilty about struggling with her responsibilities as a mom and sort of having a hard time being at home, feeling bad about that. That’s where I was, that’s when I found coaching.

If I offer her, thought work, she’s like, “No thanks, I’m out, I already have enough on my plate. I don’t want thought work too.” That is not what I was looking for. That is not what I would have Googled. That is not what I would have gotten out my credit card and paid for. Do you know what I wanted? A strategy to simplify my life. I might have paid for how to declutter the house. How to get little kids to eat healthy food when they will only eat Dino nuggets. I still might pay for that program to be honest. How to potty train your toddler. How to reconnect in your marriage.

How to help a spouse who is dealing with depression or anxiety. How to navigate rush hour traffic with two toddlers in the back seat. These were all problems I was having, that if something came along that was that specific, I might be like, “What? That sounds like something I need in my life.” That’s what I would have paid money for. That’s what I would have signed up for. How to deal with being unhappy if your life on paper seems pretty ideal. That’s what I would have signed up for. How to get three hours back in your week every week.

I mean those are the types of things that would have spoken to me. Coaching, come and get coached, probably not so much. So your offer can’t speak to what you know they need even though in the end you’re going to give them what they need. And I’m not talking about doing a bait and switch, we’re not going to trick anybody here.

I am just saying, you have to think about if your ideal client, if your niche avatar person is you before you had the transformation you’ve had. Then you have to use the language and meet that person where they are, not use the language that you use now that you know what you know. Are you with me? Now, the other thing people do is they, in the name of trying to narrow their niche. They start using adjectives that are only specific to them. So your ideal client avatar is a version of you but he or she is not actually you.

So you have to be careful about bringing in little odd things that are only relevant to you, that actually most people can’t relate to at all, because it just makes the offer weird. So for example, again, I’m just using myself as examples. So if I’m like “Hey, if you’re a young mom and you’re overwhelmed and you’re trying to balance work and being at home and you feel guilty because you’d rather be at work than being at home, I can help you.

And also if you love Disneyland and you love Taylor Swift, I’m your girl”, because those things, okay, yeah, I do love Disneyland and Taylor Swift but that doesn’t really matter. And some of you are doing that in ways that are actually turning people off. When you start bringing in weird things like, but you also really value spirituality but you kind of consider yourself not religious but you love this. It just gets too like that doesn’t have anything to do with it. That’s not narrowing, that’s just complicating your niche. Do you see what I mean?

Some of you do this in what sounds fun to you to offer. This is what sounds fun to me as I want to be able to teach people online. Or I want to be able to work with people in groups or I want to be able to do whatever it is that you want to do. But in the end if that’s not what they want and you don’t have enough traction yet to get people to accommodate what you want then you’ve got to meet them where they are and give them what they want. What do they want?

Again, for those of you that are making less than 200/300K you’re in an ideal situation because what I recommend you offer is the thing that people want and is, I think, the easiest to sell and that is private coaching. They want a one-on-one experience. They want a private coach who will really hold their hands, whatever your niche is, whatever you do. People value and will pay more for private coaching. So just offer that.

Again, once you gain a bigger following and you have a bigger demand and you understand what you’re doing more and you develop more tools and all of that, then you will be able to scale. You’ll be able to do groups if that’s what you really want to do. You’ll be able to do all kinds of things. But in the beginning, you’ve got to get some traction. You’ve got to get some momentum and you’ve got to get most importantly, some revenue coming in so that you can then reinvest in yourself and in your business to then be able to go offer those other things down the line.

So keep it as simple as you can. Offer people exactly what they want and offer it in the way that they want it. So let me try to give a couple other examples. Again, I’m not trying to say do this niche. I don’t know what niches will work, you have to test them. I’m just saying, again, if you work with young moms, if I were just starting today, I would brainstorm what are all the things that young moms think they need. And then I would start singling out the ones that I think I could help with through my skills, through my coaching, through my expertise.

Potty training, everybody wants to know how to potty train, what is the right way? What is the best way? How do we make it less miserable? That could be your coaching business, not like, I’m going to help you get in touch with your inner child and discover your whatever. No. Yes, that’s going to happen as you work with them. They’re actually going to accidentally as they learn how to potty train, they’re actually going to accidentally get in touch with themselves and like themselves better.

But in the end that’s not what people are out there looking for. That’s not what they think is the problem. Here is the truth. All of us just need to be more confident, genuinely confident. Confidence and humility are the same thing. I did a podcast on this not too long ago. If we were genuinely confident we would be naturally humble and naturally giving and loving and kind and less judgmental and less fearful. So we could all just offer confidence coaching but mostly people aren’t looking for that. They don’t realize that’s their problem.

What they think is their problem is that their marriage is struggling. Or that they have in-laws who disapprove of them. Or that they have a boss who is unfair to them and is sabotaging their career. Or that they don’t know enough about marketing and sales. Or that they are not getting the same opportunities as everyone else, so that they can’t find their spouse or that they can’t get into college or they can’t decide what their career should be, or etc. Those are the things people think they need and that’s what you need to offer.

You pick something, you become an expert in that area so you can offer a lot of action line advice along with actually helping them build confidence. But you’ve got to put it out there in the way that they want it. What do people want? The people that you feel called to help, what words do they use? In what manner would they love to get it? If you were to put it out there in this way, if your offer included whatever timelines and whatever modality and whatever cost and whatever benefits that would make people go, “What, I have got to get that”, what would that be?

If you have questions on this, bring them to me on Instagram. You can DM me, I am @jodymoorecoaching on Instagram and you can send me a DM. You can also go get my free training if you haven’t yet, it will help you get started. Go to jodysfreetraining.com. But bring me your questions if you’d like, I’d be happy to look at your offer. But think about the things I just told you and take a guess. You’ve got to begin with a guess of what you think would be the best way to describe it.

Alright, thanks for joining me today, entrepreneur friends, love you so much. I’ll see you next time.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: What Might Be Wrong With Your Offer appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We all need reminding from time to time that our focus has the power to seriously change things in our lives. Whatever you spend a significant amount of time thinking about and noticing is creating your current experience of the world.

We tend to think we’re just noticing what’s happening in our lives, the things that come across our paths, and the challenges that come up. To some extent, that’s true. However, to a much greater extent than any of us realize, we are creating our experience with our focus. So, what kind of experience of life do you want to have, and how can changing your focus help you get there?

Tune in this week to discover the power of your focus. I’m giving you some examples of how this is currently happening in your life, a key indicator that your focus is playing an undesirable role in your life, and most importantly, how to redirect your focus to create the experience of life that you really want.

If you want a taste of what coaching is really like, join me for Ask Jody Anything on Tuesday, May 23rd 2023 at 10AM Pacific. I’ll be there, and if you bring the questions, I’ll bring the magic.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How to see where you’re creating your own reality using your thoughts. * Why you may have reasons for making someone or something the bad guy in your story, but it isn’t necessarily true. * One key indicator that you’re making something more powerful in your life than you need to. * How to start shifting your focus toward something more useful, instead of making someone or something the villain in your life.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Spare by Prince Harry the Duke of Sussex
BYUTV: Come Follow Up

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 409, The Power of Your Focus.

Hey, everybody, welcome to the podcast. How is life? What’s new with you? We have so many exciting things happening here at Jody Moore Coaching. Did I say this last week already? If not, I’ve just got to mention. I had my team in town recently and we had such an amazing time but we also have so many exciting plans in the works. I can’t wait to tell you about them. I feel kind of cliché just saying that but I really am just so excited about some of the things coming this summer and this fall.

So make sure you’re getting our emails and texts or subscribe to the podcast, wherever you want to hear from us because we’ve got some cool things coming that I think you’re going to be excited about. I also just got back from Utah. I got to go spend a day at BYU Broadcasting, thanks to everybody there for being so just welcoming and delightful. I was able to be a guest on the Come Follow-Up Show. That episode will not be airing until next year when we move to Book of Mormon in the Come Follow Me study.

So I’ll give you a heads up when that comes. But it was just really kind of a cool experience to get to see what it’s like to produce a TV show and to meet all the people there. So that’s what’s going on with me.

Today we’re going to talk about the power of your focus. And I’ll tell you, I wanted to record this episode because I recently read a book. I’ll tell you what it was in just a minute but it just really made me notice this, the way our focus changes things in our lives. And I wanted to talk through it with you a little bit because I think it’s a good reminder that we all need from time to time, myself included.

So just by way of introduction, I want to remind all of us that what we focus on matters, it really does. And what I mean by that is what you spend a significant amount of time thinking about and noticing and giving your time and attention to is creating your current experience of the world, it is. Let me say that one more time. Whatever you spend your time thinking about and noticing and focusing on is creating your current experience of the world.

And we tend to think that we’re just noticing what’s happening in our lives, what comes across our path, what shows up in our lives or for our families, what challenges or problems come our way. And to some extent that’s true but to a much greater extent than any of us realize, we are creating it with our focus. So maybe there is something, let me just think of an example. Let’s say one of my kids at school is getting into trouble consistently. I’ll just pick on my son even though I don’t think this is the case. But let’s just say that he talks too much, he’s not paying attention, the teacher’s frustrated with him and he’s getting into trouble.

If I don’t know that that’s happening, if the teacher hasn’t notified me and my child hasn’t told me about it then that’s not really a problem for me because I don’t know to think about it. Now, as soon as somebody reaches out to me, the teacher or my child or another parent or somebody who knows about this and tells me this is a problem. Now I start thinking about it and focusing on it. Now my child has a problem, the teacher has a problem and I have a problem and we all three are having somewhat of a negative experience as we think about this topic.

Now, I’m not saying this is wrong. Being able to be aware of problems and to think about them can allow us to then find solutions. So to a certain extent this is useful. I’m not just saying tell everyone to leave you alone and don’t tell you about anything going on. I want you to be part of helping people find solutions. But my point is my child getting in trouble at school isn’t what makes me feel anxious or worried because I don’t feel that way until I become aware of it and start having thoughts about it and it becomes a focus or something I’m giving attention to in my mind. Are you with me?

So one of the ways this is true is as soon as I decide something is a problem then I start collecting evidence that I might be right. Have you ever had an experience where there was somebody in your life or just kind of in the circles that you interact with, who either you just didn’t really think about at all, you didn’t really notice, you didn’t maybe interact with them that often. You really didn’t spend a lot of time thinking about them or maybe you had positive thoughts and stories about them. And then somebody else who you really trust says to you, “I don’t really like them, I think that they are”, fill in the blank.

I think they’re really judgmental. I think that they think they’re better than everyone else. Or I think that they’re being dishonest. I think that they lie a lot. Or I think whatever the judgment is. Somebody who you already trust comes along and says to you, “I don’t like that person and here’s why.” What happens next? Whenever you experience that person your brain is looking out for, is that true, are they bad in that way or are they not likable in the way that my friend just told me? And you start noticing it where you didn’t even notice it before.

The person that we’re talking about hasn’t changed. I just now start noticing. I start collecting evidence that, yeah, it’s true, they are that way. I didn’t even notice before. Now I notice. So now I have just created a slightly different experience for myself because of what I’m focusing on. Are you with me so far?

So let me tell you about the book I read that really made me want to talk about this. I just finished listening on audible because who can sit down and read a book? I can’t. This is not a good thing but it’s just the truth. I can only listen on audible because I can’t sit still that long or I can’t stay awake when I read. But I listen to a lot of books on audible and I can consume a whole book in two days thanks to audible. So anyway, I just finished listening to Prince Harry’s book, Spare. Have you read this book or listened to this book? I highly recommend it. I thought it was amazing.

I want to just say a huge shout out to my friend, Haz, that’s what he goes by, if you didn’t know. I want to tell Haz that I loved that book. I am so impressed with it. I know he had help from a ghostwriter but I don’t care. It’s still an amazing book. And huge kudos to him for being so vulnerable and sharing so much of his life. I just thought it was amazing and I’m a huge fan of Prince Harry and his wife Meghan and their family. And anyway I want to start with that because I’m going to point out if I was able to coach Harry what I would point out to him.

And I want to just preface it that I’m doing it with the most love and that I do the exact same thing and I bet you do, too in different ways. But I want to use his story as an example because his life is so different than the life that any of us probably listening to this podcast are living, but it will be really easy to see. And then we’ll talk about how to apply it to our lives. So what Harry has done and maybe he’s still doing, I don’t know, is he has put a lot of focus and attention and energy on noticing how the media, the press, the paparazzi are making his life miserable.

That’s what he believes, they are making his life miserable. Now, he has a valid reason for believing that, 100% valid. First of all, starting when he was 12 years old and his mother was killed being chased by the paparazzi. So it begins with trauma and actually even began with what I would say was probably traumatic experiences even before that of just being chased by them when he was with his mom. But certainly losing his mother to a chase by the paparazzi at such a young age was a trauma.

And by trauma I just mean his brain responded in such a way that it rewired his brain to say this is dangerous. And then all throughout his life as he’s grown up, he’s been put in the papers, photos, stories some of which were either partially true or not true at all and others of which were just a violation of what should be private personal experiences. So again he has a totally valid reason for hating the press, hating the paparazzi, being so angry at them.

He has real experiences of when people like his family etc. should have come to his defense and didn’t, or when people who he loved and trusted and were even behind the stories. He has valid reason for it but still he’s made it the bad guy in his story. He’s made it a main character and therefore he’s given it a lot of power over his happiness, he has. Now, again, I do this with other things but I wanted to begin with this example because my guess is that most of you listening to this podcast and myself included cannot relate to this.

I do not have paparazzi trying to figure out where I am at any given moment and invading my life. So it’s easy for me and for you maybe to look at Harry and go, “Well, just don’t read the papers. Just don’t pay attention to it. Who cares?” It’s easy from our seats to give Harry that advice, much more challenging to actually implement it. And I want to give you one other thing here that will be an indicator then I’m going to go through some examples that you can probably relate to or at least that I can relate to.

One key indicator that you’ve made something more powerful in your life than you need to is you will be surprised that it keeps happening. So Harry in this book tells us all kinds of stories about all the terrible things that the press has done, all the traumatic things he’s experienced at their hands. And yet even at the end of the book, after he’s married and has a family and is still trying to get to peace he continues to be shocked at it. As new stories come out, as new things get published, he can’t believe it.

His mind is always blown that they would print the stories, that his family wouldn’t come to his defense, whatever it is. He’s like, “I couldn’t believe it happened.” And as I’m listening to it I’m thinking, come on Harry, let’s be real here, we can believe it happened. I’m not saying it should happen. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t be held accountable for this but are we really so surprised? Because this has been happening your whole life, why are we so surprised?

Of course that happened. Of course that happened. So this kind of shock and surprise that we have is because we are holding on to hope that it will change. And I’m all for you wanting it to change. I just don’t want you to need it to change in order to have the life you want to have, in order to feel peaceful and happy as you might want to feel. You’re going to have to shift your focus. You’re going to have to stop giving it so much power by stopping giving it so much attention.

In Harry’s story, Harry and some of his friends and family and sometimes these characters change from time to time, but they are the good guys, they’re Luke Skywalker and Yoda. And then we have Darth Vader who is the media. Now, Darth Vader is a very powerful main character in Star Wars, everyone knows who Darth Vader is. Not everybody knows who some of the other random side characters are but everybody knows Darth Vader because Darth Vader is a main character and he’s extremely powerful and he’s extremely dangerous. And without him we wouldn’t have such a fascinating story.

And Harry has made the press powerful and dominant in his own story by focusing on it so much. Now, here’s the thing, if we could change it, I’d be in. And I’m all for us trying to impact circumstances like this, doing what we can. I’m all for whoever wants to, Harry or anybody else trying to get things in force to get proper accountability, to get laws changed.

I’m all for that but not if it’s going to be at the expense of your happiness and peace. Not if it’s going to take over your thoughts and your focus in such a way that you’re going to impact really significantly negatively your current life experience. Because there are certain circumstances that cannot be easily controlled or changed, one of them I would say is the media. If that’s ever going to get better it’s going to be a long slow process. So I don’t want Harry hanging his happiness on it. I want him to figure out how to find happiness and peace even though.

And he doesn’t even have to think positively about it. I just don’t want it to be such a main character. Let’s just let it be a little side character. Let’s let it be something that is annoying, that we do have to deal with at times like an annoying uncle that pops over for dinner but in the end no one really remembers his name because he’s not a main character in the story. Okay, so thanks to my friend Harry for letting me use him as an example.

What is that in your life? What is the paparazzi in your life? What is the thing that you maybe give too much attention to even though maybe you still want to think it’s a problem and it’s a negative thing you don’t want it to be such a main character. You don’t want it to have such a dominant role in your life because you’re making it even more of a problem than it needs to be by doing that.

I’ll tell you what it is for me. It’s the weather. And I’ve talked about this before, you guys know I have, because it’s a main focus. Here’s how I know it’s a main focus. I’m constantly every morning and every night, multiple times a day looking at the weather app on my phone. I think I have winter trauma or darkness trauma from living in a place that feels like it’s cold so much and it gets so dark in the winter that I have now given that a lot of power over my life.

Now, listen, I’m not saying this is the same thing as Harry’s struggle with the press because I know that what he’s dealing with is way more dangerous and way more impactful in many ways than the weather, I’m just saying, I’m trying to identify for myself what am I doing that with that isn’t necessary? It feels so justified for me to complain about the weather because you know what, everybody around me does it. I think everyone around me in Spokane has winter trauma. And those of you in Utah who got so much snow this year, you probably do too.

So we all validate each other, we all connect over it. It gives my brain something to think about and focus on, but it doesn’t change the weather, dang it. What else might you be doing this with? I see a lot of people do this with a person in their lives. Maybe it’s somebody who you have a primary relationship with like a spouse or a good friend or a sister or sister-in-law or somebody that you’re kind of close to. And if they choose to be nice and they’re in a good mood, then you’re going to be happy and if not you’re going to struggle.

Or if they talk to you in the right way, great, and if they don’t then we’re in trouble. Or maybe they’re just struggling and you’re really worried about them. Maybe it’s a child, a child who’s difficult or misbehaves. How much focus and attention do you give to it? I’m not saying you shouldn’t give it any. I’m not saying you should just bury your head in the sand about it. I’m just saying, let it be a side character in your story. Don’t let it be a main character in your story if it’s creating a lot of pain for you.

Make it something that you don’t think about and focus on as much as your brain might think you need to, because in most cases all that’s doing is making us miserable. It’s not changing or controlling it. I’ve seen this happen with clients who have a spouse that maybe has been unfaithful in the past in one way or another. And the villain in their story is that unfaithfulness and they’re hanging their happiness on whether or not it happens again, whether or not he’s telling the truth or he’s lying to me.

You are making all of this so much more dominant in your current experience than it needs to be. I see entrepreneurs do this with their business metrics sometimes, constantly checking your stats. If you’re constantly checking your post to see how many likes and shares or you’re constantly checking your podcast downloads or you’re obsessed about your stats, you’re making that part of your business, you’re making your business basically be in charge of how you’re going to feel.

And maybe your business is doing well and then you’re going to feel good and then maybe at times it’s not doing well and now we’re just on a rollercoaster. So if it’s not doing well, especially I recommend that you shift your focus away from it. I know that sounds so strange. If it’s not doing well I need to be thinking about it all the time and you need to figure out how to fix it. I mean, yeah, I want you to try things and fix it, but not from stress and energy and scarcity and desperation. Not from that place, not so you can feel better.

People do this a lot too when they have health goals, weight loss goals, it becomes the scale or it becomes the way my body looks or how I look in the mirror. When you’re focusing on what’s wrong with you, you make that be a villain in your life. You make the gap between where you are and where you want to be, be the villain or the scale is the villain or what have you. And it’s a really exhausting way to live. Again, a lot of these things are challenges for me, you guys.

It is challenging for me not to think about my body and food a lot. That is the honest truth. And a lot of those thoughts are not healthy and not positive but if I can notice them, I can interrupt them at times. And I spend dedicated time sometimes focusing on interrupting them. But I also sometimes just spend time redirecting to something more useful. I just don’t let that part of my experience, that challenge that I have with loving my body and being healthy and creating lifelong healthy habits. It’s still a challenge for me.

I’m better than I used to be, I should say, at not focusing on it all the time, not letting it play such a dominant role in my experience because I don’t want that to be a main character in my story. It’s so insignificant, it doesn’t need to be a main character in my story. So what is it for you? This is a good way to think about it. Again, thanks to Prince Harry for writing his book, Spare. If you were going to write a story, what would be the main message you hope people would take away from it?

I feel like the main message Harry wanted us to take away from his story is that something needs to be done about the paparazzi and I don’t disagree with that. But I also don’t want Harry to wait for that before he experiences the freedom and joy and happiness that he wants to. And I know he does at many times, he does redirect away from it. But it’s clearly still a central character in his story or at least it was at the end of that book.

So what is that for you? If you were to write your memoir, what would be the villain? And then you know how we conquer the villain? Not by bringing the villain down, controlling it, fixing it, whatever we think. By choosing to write it out of the story or just give it a side role. Demote it from being a main character down to just a little, tiny, insignificant side role. This is not irresponsible. This is not just turning a blind eye. This is intentionally choosing to create the experience that you want to in your life. Your focus matters. It has tremendous power over you. Choose it intentionally.

And if you want help, come to ask Jody anything this week at jodymoore.com/trial. I’ll see you there. Bye bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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This week’s episode is a wake-up call that many of you need to hear. There’s this belief that if we just choose the right niche, the perfect image for our ads, or get featured on the right podcast or magazine, we’ll finally have our big break. Some of you are sitting around waiting to get lucky, and the truth is this is not how success happens.

If you’ve ever watched someone else experience success, you might relate to the thought, “They’re so lucky.” Maybe you think they’re lucky that they got into the right business at the perfect time, or lucky that they got to give a speech on a huge stage that launched them into success. However, what you don’t see are all the moves they made before that one worked out.

Join me this week to hear why you have to stop waiting to get lucky. I’m sharing the truth behind the success you see other people experiencing, and what’s actually required of you if you want to have a thriving business.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why you’re not going to get lucky. * The truth behind the success you see some people experiencing. * Why most people don’t fail in business. * What is required of you if you want to have a thriving business.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice
I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: No Such Luck.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.Hello my entrepreneur friends. Listen, I’m going to go on a little rant today. And I want to begin by saying that I have zero judgment of any of you listening to this or anybody when I coach on this particular topic. But sometimes a little bit of a reminder, a little bit of a wakeup call, a little bit of a rant is necessary. And what I want to talk to you about today is this idea that I see so many of you operating from in your businesses and you just may not be aware of it. But I want to bring awareness to it today.And it’s this idea that there’s some lucky right answer, that you’re going to pick the right door so to speak and then you’re going to end up with a successful business. That if you just choose the right niche or you get the right title for your opt-in or you pick something right, you choose the right image on your ads or something like this. Or you get onto the right podcast or you get featured in the right magazine or something. I feel like so many of you are sitting around trying to get lucky and earn some kind of big break.And that a part of your brains thinks that’s the way it happens. And I want to tell you, that is not the way it happens. You don’t just happen to guess the right name of your program or podcast to put out there. You don’t just happen to guess the right, again, niche or offer to make in the world and then it works. It’s not that your program isn’t right or that you’re not, something’s wrong with you or any of that. It’s not that you’re going to get lucky. You’re not going to get lucky. You’re going to get the rewards of the work that you put in.

So let me tell you why I’m reminding you of this and then kind of help flesh out how to apply it and how to notice if you’re stuck in this mindset because you may not think you are. And maybe you’re not but also you may be and you’re just not aware of it. So first of all, anyone with a successful business probably can relate to the fact that people say all the time, “Oh my gosh, you’re so lucky. You’re so lucky that you have your own business. You’re so lucky that you”, this is what people say to me.

“You just got into it at the right timing. You really launched your coaching business at the right time. That was so lucky for you.” Or, “You just picked the right niche. If I could discover the right niche I could probably be successful like that.” And I get it, it’s easy to think that. It’s easy to look back at the parts of someone’s business that you see which is only a small part of it because the rest of it’s happening behind the scenes and it’s not visible if you don’t have that behind the scenes glimpse at it. And for it to look like they just must have gotten lucky.

Or maybe the first time you learn about somebody or discover somebody is when you hear them speak on a big stage or you see their TED Talk go viral or their book all of a sudden on the bestseller list. And it’s easy to think, okay, that person just got lucky. They were in the right place at the right time and then they were asked to give that speech at that thing. Or their book was just so good that it went number one and launched them into success. Gosh, wasn’t that lucky.

And here’s what I want to tell you, most of the time when you see someone speaking on a big stage and maybe that’s the first time you’ve ever heard of them. They have probably been at it for years and years and years. And they probably worked so hard to get on that stage. They probably had to pitch themself to get on that stage. And they probably were turned down hundreds of times, maybe for that exact stage but if not for that one, probably for a lot of others leading up to that.

They probably had a lot of ‘unlucky moves’ that they made before that one worked out. It’s not luck, people. It’s not like let me set up my business and then cross my fingers and hope it works. It’s not like that, but it also doesn’t have to be because it’s not luck. It doesn’t have to be a big failure either. Most people don’t actually fail in business, they just quit trying. And most people try probably three things in any particular business before they give up and decide I just didn’t pick the right thing or I’m not good at this or I don’t have the right niche or whatever.

And then they change course. They don’t wait it out long enough. They don’t have enough patience. They’re not willing to make adjustments and tweaks and they’re not willing to work hard. Listen up, you are going to have to work hard. I don’t mean that you should abandon the rest of your life. I don’t mean that you shouldn’t have balance in your life. But if you’re trying to create a thriving business you’re going to have to work full-time to get it up and running within I would say about a year. If it’s the kinds of businesses I’m most familiar with like coaches, healers, experts.

It’s probably going to take a year of working full-time to get that business up and running to a six figure level. If you don’t have full-time hours to put in because you choose not to, you’ve got kids and you want to not work full-time or whatever the reason, that’s fine. Just expect it to take even longer, maybe two years, maybe three years to get to six figures. That’s what it took for me. And I’ll tell you what, that wasn’t two to three years of me just kind of dabbling, working a little bit here and there and when I choose.

It was me working a full 20 hours a week. When it was time to work I sat down at my computer and worked. I didn’t go, “I don’t feel like it. There’s other things getting in the way. Oh, no, the kids need me.” I just did not have excuses like that. I sat down and I worked even when I didn’t have any clients to coach, even when I didn’t have anything on my calendar. I had plenty of work to do, if there’s nothing on my calendar because I had plenty to figure out and create and test out and try.

So I saw this fitness coach online, I can’t remember who it was, it was earlier this year, it really landed for me. I don’t know who he was, but he had this quote that said, “Stop complaining about the lack of results you have from the work you’re not putting in.” He was talking about our health and physical fitness, which really landed for me. I was like, “He’s talking to me.” I complain sometimes about not being in shape the way I wish I was. And yet I’m not consistently doing what’s necessary to get myself in shape.

So that’s fine, I just probably ought to stop complaining about it. And I want to say that to some of you with your businesses. It’s okay if you haven’t been putting in the work. I’m not saying to shame yourself or feel guilty about it. It’s actually kind of good news. It’s not like my business isn’t going to work. It’s I haven’t been putting in the effort. And a lot of times when I’m coaching entrepreneurs and we’re taking a look at where some of the gaps are, things that they still need to create to have a successful marketing funnel or whatever it is.

And I’ll say things like, “Hey, where are you putting out content? Maybe you need to be putting out a lot more content. Maybe your content needs to get a lot better. Maybe you need to come up with more ideas. Maybe you need fresh ideas, not to be saying the same thing everyone else is saying. Maybe you need to get better at creating videos. May you need to get better at podcasting”, or whatever it is that they’re doing. And they’ll say to me, “Yeah, I don’t know that I want to do that. I don’t know that I want to start a YouTube channel because that seems like a big commitment.

I don’t want to be a slave to it. I don’t want to have to create content every week. Isn’t that a lot?” And I say, “Yeah, it is, but what, do you want to grow a successful business or not?” That’s like me saying, “I don’t want to, you know, if I start exercising.” I know if I exercise five days a week, lifted heavy weights and moved my body five days a week I could get my body in shape but that seems like such a big commitment. Am I going to have to do that forever? And the answer is, yeah, if you want to stay in shape you are going to have to exercise three to five days a week forever.

And what that exercise is might change, but yeah, the answer is yeah, you are going to have to do that forever. So either just decide, I’m not willing to do that and so that’s okay. I just may not get my business to the level that I sort of would like it to be. I may not get my body to the fitness level I would actually really like it to be. Or decide to do it and learn how to make it a regular part of your routine. If you were working for someone else you would be expected to go to work and do the things you’ve committed to do on whatever frequency you’ve committed to doing them.

And you wouldn’t be like, “I don’t know. Am I going to have to do this the whole time I have this job? Am I going to have to show up every day and clock in like that and then ring people up”, if I’m a cashier. The answer would be, “Yeah, you are going to have to do that as long as you want this job.” So if you’re signing up for the job of being some kind of a coach or expert or healer who wants to utilize online marketing which in my experience is the easiest way, the most affordable least risky way then yeah, you are. You’re going to have to commit yourself to helping people.

That’s what marketing is, helping people before they ever sign up for your offer. It’s so much fun to help people. If you don’t like helping people in whatever way you help people that is your area of expertise, if you’re not excited enough about doing it that you want to do it all the time I would just question if you really want this business. I love teaching people about their minds.

I love teaching people about the power they have over their own life experience. I love it so much I will talk to anyone who’s willing to listen to me talk about it. I will talk to my clients and help them on a much deeper level but I am thrilled and excited to get on here every week and record a podcast. And now two podcasts a week, now that I’m doing entrepreneur episodes as well. And I’m thrilled and excited to create content in any area I can possibly fit in and I’m willing to do it every week for the rest of my life if necessary. Yes, I am.

So if you’re not willing to do that, maybe there’s another way. I haven’t found a better way yet. Maybe one day AI is going to do this for all of us and we will no longer need humans to do it. I kind of doubt it. I kind of think that at least for a while we want to hear from different people with their own different perspectives. And some of their weaknesses and shortcomings and mistakes and faults are what make it interesting to us. But I don’t know, maybe AI will change it and then we won’t have to create content every week, but until we get to that point you’re going to have to put in the work to build the business.

And you’re going to have to give it the time for it to actually take off. It’s going to take time. I can’t think of anything, well, very few things I should say. Now that I’ve been doing this for almost 10 years and I have a bigger platform I sometimes do get invited to things, invited to speak at places or things like really some cool opportunities. But until recently that did not happen, my friends. If I was going to speak on a stage or be on a podcast or be featured in a magazine or something like that, I was going to have to put in the work. And I still do have to put in a lot of the work.

I’m not saying, people are just always coming to me now, inviting me. Mostly I’m putting in the work to get myself onto the platforms I want to, to create the opportunities I want. And I’m being told no over and over and over and over again. Occasionally somebody reaches out and invites me. That is unusual and often they aren’t the types of opportunities that I’m looking for at this point. They are someone looking to gain exposure through my platform. So there’s not people with big platforms bigger than me reaching out to me hardly ever.

So stop trying to get lucky. Stop trying to guess the right way to land on a bestseller list. Be willing to put in the time and the effort, that is how you achieve success. It’s not luck, it’s work. I wish I had better news for you but it’s actually really good news because your odds of succeeding are far better than if you just have to guess the right program, the right offer, the right niche. You don’t have to, just keep working, just keep going and success is actually inevitable.

Thanks for joining me today for Entre-Talk. If you have not gotten the free training, make sure you go to jodysfreetraining.com and grab it and let’s get your business up and running. Talk to you next time, bye bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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It’s almost Mother’s Day, and I have a message for all the moms. For these episodes, I usually make a few notes and then speak freely. However, today, I felt like writing something down, as if I was sending a letter. I’m sharing a love letter to all the moms.

This is for all the mommas, grandmas, aunties, moms-to-be, hopeful moms in the thick of infertility treatment, surrogate moms, birth moms, adopted moms, and moms who had it forced up on by falling in love with someone who already had children. But to keep it simple, I’ll just say moms. This episode is for you.

Tune in this week to discover why you should never feel bad about falling short as a mother. I’m sharing what I believe all moms want this Mother’s Day, and showing you how to show yourself fierce love, kindness, and compassion when you feel like you’re falling short as a parent.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why I’m feeling compelled to write a love letter to all the mommas. * What I believe moms want this Mother’s Day. * Why you should never feel bad for falling short as a mother. * How to decide on the way you want to show up for your family.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 408, A Love Letter to All the Moms.

Hello, everybody, how is it going? It’s almost Mother’s Day. And I have a message I want to share with you today. I want to just mention first of all that my team was just in town the last couple of days. We have, how many? Eight or nine people that work really consistently with us either as employees or contractors. And we brought them all to Spokane as we do on occasion and we spent two days brainstorming how to make everything better. We have some big changes and some new things coming later on in the summer and in the fall. And I’m super excited about all of that.

Can’t wait to share it all with you and I just, I love my team so much. Jake and I were talking about how much we love our team and how one of the downsides to everybody being remote is we don’t get to see each other as often as we want. But I do think that if we all worked together in the same office it would be really hard for me to get my work done because I just love hanging out with them and we just laughed and ate good food and also got a lot of work done. So that was pretty awesome.

Today what I want to share with you is what I’m calling a love letter to all the moms in the name of, of course, Mother’s Day coming up. But what I did for some reason, I normally just speak to you on this podcast. I make myself a few notes kind of an outline and then I speak sort of freely and that seems to work well. I’m going to keep doing that mostly but for some reason today I felt like writing something down as though I was going to send you a letter.

And so I’m going to read it and I hope that doesn’t take away from the podcast. I just felt like I needed to get my thoughts down on paper first. When I write, my voice tends to come out a little bit differently, a little bit less casual. And I want to read to you today the letter that I would send to you if I could send you a letter.

Says, Mother’s Day, it’s coming or it’s here or it just passed or it’s nowhere near but you clicked play on this episode because you were curious. Whenever you are listening and whatever the reason I am speaking to all the mamas, grandmas, aunties, moms to be, hopeful moms in the thick of infertility treatment, surrogate moms, birth moms, adopted moms and moms who had it forced upon them by falling in love with a man who already had children. I’ll just say, mom, to keep it simple. This one’s for you.

I know what you want for Mother’s Day, I’m pretty sure. Let me take a stab at it. You want everyone to get along. You want them to be happy. You want a break. You want a Diet Coke and a cookie and a nap. You want them to clean up the house so you can relax in a clean house without having to be the one to clean it up. You want to feel good about yourself, your body, your skin, your contribution. You want your kids to turn out well. You want to feel like you’re doing a good job.

You want your husband to talk nicer to you. You want connection with him and to feel like he’s interested in what you have to say with no strings attached. You wouldn’t mind a fun gift but you don’t really care about that as much as all these other things. And yet, you know this is a lot to ask. Each thing on its own sounds reasonable and you don’t think it’s too much to ask but when you take a look at all of it and you hear it out loud you realize it’s so far away from your current reality that it’s not likely to happen even though it’s Mother’s Day.

So when you think about what you want you answer with the same, “I don’t know. Nothing really. I’m fine.” Did I get it right? Olay. So here’s the thing, I have good news disguised as bad news and I hope you’ll receive it as my Mother’s Day gift to you because when I first learned this it felt like bad news to me. But as I’ve come to understand it better, it’s set me free more than any other news I’ve ever received. And it’s helped me find more peace and joy and freedom. It helped me have fun again. It helps me like myself.

It’s allowed me to change the way I lived day-to-day which changed the life I have overall. And it’s pretty simple but it’s important. Are you ready? The news is this. You’re a good mom. You’re a good person. You’re doing a great job. You’re amazing at so many things. You’re kind and helpful and giving and talented, you are but you’re also not. You’re not good at parts of it. Sometimes you are at best a mediocre mom but at times a terrible one, it’s true. It’s true of me and it’s true of you.

Sometimes you are selfish. Sometimes you make mistakes unknowingly or because you aren’t good at certain things. And other times you knowingly make poor choices and it’s okay, yes, really, yes, I’m sure, it’s okay. Not only okay but it’s the way of it, the reality of you and of me. We are human moms, we’re going to do some things that help our kids in the ways they need help. And we’re going to do some things that harm our kids and require them to navigate challenges in the world as a result, every one of us and it’s okay.

Oh dear, now what? Is this bad news to you? Does it sound like justification for falling short? Does it feel like thinking this way will make you a worse mom? It won’t, I promise, it will do the opposite. How do I know? I have coached literally thousands upon thousands of moms. I’ve never seen an exception to this, not once. When you feel bad for falling short you will fall even shorter overall. Feeling bad about what a terrible mom you are might help you in the short term because you can scare yourself or shame yourself into accessing willpower.

That willpower can give you a temporary improvement in behavior but it won’t last, it won’t be real, it will be forced and it will run out. Maybe you yelled at the kids and you’re feeling bad about that, the internal yelling at yourself for yelling at your kids just means more yelling. And it means the next time your kids do what kids do, you’ll already be operating from a negative place making it harder to control your temper. How do you want to react, think about or speak to the kids when they misbehave? In an ideal world if you were a perfect mom what would that look like?

You’d probably say something like, “Okay kids, guess what? That’s not appropriate. Let’s talk about it. Tell me what was going on for you when you made that choice. I see, you were afraid, you were struggling in some way. Okay, I’ll help you. Let’s figure that out. In the meanwhile let’s see if we can work on this, okay love? I love you. Nothing you do will change that, I love you fiercely.” Okay, so let’s try that on you, why did you yell? What’s going on? What are you really needing? What would make all of this easier and more fun? What are you really struggling with?

What are you missing that you need in your life? Okay, I see, I hear you. I’m going to take care of you. Yeah, we can work on this and let’s do, but in the meanwhile I love you. Nothing you do or don’t do will ever change that. I have got you, self, fierce love and compassion. And here’s what you need to know. There will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be a point at which you will arrive, when you’ll be the perfect mom or even a good enough mom that you don’t have to intentionally talk to yourself with kindness.

If you’re trying to stop yelling so you can feel good about yourself, you should know that you’ll stop yelling but then you’ll find another way in which you’re falling short. You will, I promise, it’s our human design to continue to find opportunities to improve ourselves. And yes, keep working on it, go for the next improvement, pass to the next level, but not so that you’ll be worthy of your own love because there are never ending levels to this game. So instead, love yourself as you play the game.

Level two is just as worthy of love as level 27. Yes, I’m sure. You are not the world’s greatest mom. You don’t need to be. You’re the world’s okayest mom as you should be. Find a default strength to divert to when you find your mind judging you. This is what I do, pancakes. I’m good at pancakes. I just redirect to that every time.

When I realized I didn’t sign my son up for basketball as he’d asked me to do for the last eight months. I kept telling him I would when it was time but it wasn’t time yet until I missed the deadline and couldn’t get him in. You’re the worst mom ever, Jody Moore, that’s what I thought. But I’m really good at making pancakes, I reminded myself because the truth is I am good at parts of this job and not good at others.

But I’ve noticed that the better I get at being loving and patient and curious and kind to myself, the better I get at loving and being patient and curious and kind to my kids and my husband and my clients and listeners and followers who love me. And the ones who are mad at me for having political views other than theirs or liking a post they disagree with, who write to me and tell me how disgusted they are with me. They’re full of anger and criticism and guess what, I know how to love them.

I’m so much better at loving them all because I intentionally love on myself. And loving yourself is easy to do when you check all the boxes you intended to check that day. But can you love yourself when you mess it up? That’s when you truly get better at loving.

I hope this Mother’s Day you’ll embrace all of you, embrace your light and embrace your dark. You are good and bad, selfish and unselfish, kind and mean, accepting and judgmental, or at least I am. I love me and I love you and this is true freedom. Happy Mother’s Day.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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This week, we’re talking about one vital step many of you have in your marketing funnel. Whether you call it a consultation, mini session, sales call, webinar, or course, it’s essentially the part where you want someone who is passively consuming your content to show up in a different way.

If you find that you’re having trouble getting people to book that consult or show up to a free webinar, you are not alone. This is the most challenging step to get people to take action on because it requires so much more vulnerability and expectation, but it’s one that if you spend time, focus, and effort on, will make a huge difference in your business.

Tune in to hear why this is the one step in your marketing funnel that has the potential to make the biggest difference in your business, whether or not you succeed in getting your potential clients to take that next step, and what you have to consider if you want to book more consults.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why getting people out of passive action is an important step. * How business owners highly underestimate how challenging it is to get people to take the next step. * Why you need to be talking about your offerings more than you think you do. * How to address and speak to your potential clients’ objections ahead of time.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice
I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: How to Book More Consults.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.Hey everybody. Welcome to Entrepreneurial Talk here on Better Than Happy. I want to talk to you about this step that many of you have in your marketing funnel that maybe you call it a consultation, maybe you call it a mini session, maybe you call it a sales call, maybe it’s a webinar, even an evergreen weapon or course or something that you want people to watch or take.I’m talking about the part where somebody goes from just passively consuming your teaching and your contents casually when they want, to I’m supposed to show up for this thing at a certain time or certain date and there can be varying levels of vulnerability or what’s expected of them at that time. Maybe it’s a one-on-one, a consult, just a one-on-one conversation. So literally, somebody’s expecting them at a certain time. If they don’t show up, that person is sort of left high and dry, that person being you the coach.

But even on a webinar where maybe there’s a lot of people signed up. There’s a certain time and date that they’re supposed to show up and listen or at the least listen to a replay after. There’s a little bit more effort required than just, “Hey, do you like my podcast episode? I publish it every week and you can listen whenever you want and it’s just streamed really conveniently right to your phone. Or follow me on Instagram and I’m going to post stuff and you can just come and check it out when you want and it’ll show up in your feed at times.”

But there’s no set time, there’s no expectation, are you with me? So first of all, having a step like that is really important because what will happen is a lot of people will stay in the land of just what I call passive consumption. In other words, they don’t have to act in any particular way. They can passively consume, in fact they can listen while they’re multitasking. They can listen or not listen. They can, again, read or not read. So it’s sort of passive action. It’s learning.

Hopefully it’s helping people, but they’re not actually doing the uncomfortable part, especially if you’re a coach. There’s an uncomfortableness to being vulnerable and doing the work with a coach, of actually figuring out what’s really happening in your head, the specifics for you and really opening up and sharing what feels like really vulnerable, emotional, personal information. Or at the very least being willing to, like I said, show up at a certain time and place and keep track of all of that information.

That is a totally different step. So if you find that you’re having a hard time getting people to take that step, you’re having a hard time filling your consultations or your webinars or whatever. Then I want to tell you first and foremost that you are not alone. It is the most challenging step to get people to take because it requires so much more than what they’ve done up until that point. It even in most cases requires that they make a decision in their mind that they may want to work with you on a deeper level. In other words they may want to purchase your program or services or help.

Most people understand that if they’re going to go to something like that they’re there partly to learn about your services, your offer and see if it’s a good fit. It doesn’t mean that they’re all the way committed. They don’t need to be, most of them won’t be and they shouldn’t be. It means that they’ve decided maybe this could help me which is a big change from just passively consuming. And they’re interested enough that they are willing to, again, keep track, put it in the calendar, show up, find the Zoom link or whatever else is involved.

And don’t underestimate how annoying all of that is and how much attention that all of that requires from us. So the reason I’m telling you this is not to discourage you. You can totally have a full calendar of consults or whatever that step is for you. But I think most people, most coaches or whatever kind of business you have, highly underestimate how much has to go into helping someone make that step. You need to be talking about it first of all, probably way more than you are.

If you send emails you probably need to send at least twice as many emails as you are. You need to just be talking about it because you will be amazed. I’m still always amazed. I’ve been doing this for nine years. I’m constantly amazed at things that people go, “I didn’t know that.” And I’m like, “What, I say this every day everywhere.” In my mind I think I’m saying it so much that I’m going to bother people. And people still say, “I didn’t know that that’s how it worked.”

Because guess what, we’re one of a million things trying to get their attention. We shouldn’t be the primary thing on their attention. We should be a little tiny PS side note, if you want some help, here’s what’s available. And they’re going to miss that, 90% of the time that you say it, they didn’t hear it. They weren’t paying attention. They didn’t open the email. It went to their junk mail. They didn’t hear it. They had a kid interrupt them. They weren’t paying attention. Their mind was on something else and that’s okay. They’re not doing it wrong.

You have to talk about it way more often than you are. I need to be talking about that way more often than I do in my business. In my business it’s usually some kind of a course or a webinar or an intensive, maybe a low priced intensive. Maybe you have that in your business, maybe you have consultations. We all need to be talking about it way more often. We need to be letting people know it’s available. We need to let them know that it’s free, if it’s free or where to go to sign up for it. We need to be doing that way more than we’re doing it. That’s number one.

Number two, you need to think about all of their potential obstacles and challenges and speak to them regularly. So I just got done coaching this week. I coached all of my clients in my Business Mastermind program. There’s 20 ish of them. And I meet with them all occasionally one-on-one. We talk about what’s going on in their business. And a good percentage of them, that’s why I wanted to do this, are saying. “This part’s working and this is going well. And my clients are great and my program’s great but I can’t keep my consults full. I need to get more people to come to consults.”

That’s hands down the number one challenge. So that’s what prompted me to do this webinar. So then I’ll ask them, “What are the reasons why you think people aren’t signing up?” And you know what most of them say to me, well what they want to say is, “I don’t know.” Most of them know that we don’t take ‘I don’t know’ around here, so they say, “I know I’m not supposed to say I don’t know but I don’t really know.” And I say, “Okay, let’s just try to think about it.” And I see their brains literally be blocked. They literally don’t think they know why.

And then I’m like, “Let me help you. Let’s get the juices turning.” Okay, so if this is you, listen up. Maybe they are skeptical of things that are free. That would make sense. I’m kind of skeptical of things that are free. So we need to speak to that. Why is it free? Maybe they’re afraid you’re going to be really pushy and salesy. I get that. I don’t want to go to a call where I think someone’s going to be pushy and salesy. Maybe they don’t understand what happens on that call. Maybe I didn’t make the call sound very appealing.

Maybe there’s no value add on the call. Maybe the call sounds boring, if you call it a consult that sounds really boring to me. Call it something more appealing and give me some value on that call. Maybe I’m afraid. Maybe I’m not good at keeping track of details. Maybe I forgot, maybe I don’t have Zoom. Maybe I was excited about it and then I just talked to my husband and he said, “No, that’s stupid, you’re not doing that.” Maybe a friend told me, “You’re going to talk to a life coach, that’s really expensive.” And now they just disappeared.

Maybe if I decide to take some guesses I could easily come up with 50 possible reasons and then I could start speaking to those reasons when I talk about it. I could say, “Maybe you’re thinking this. If you’re thinking this, let me just tell you.” And you answer it and you speak to it and you do this in your emails and you do this on your social media and you do this on your podcast or wherever else you talk to your clients. You have to be getting inside their head and addressing what’s going on for them.

I’ll tell you the one thing that is not true that your brain’s probably telling you is that I’m just not good enough. Maybe it’s me, I’m just not good enough. Nobody wants to talk to me. Nobody likes me. That’s what our brains do. We make it about us. Guess what? It’s not about you. I promise you, it’s not about you. They wouldn’t be following you on social media if it were you. They wouldn’t be on your email list. They wouldn’t subscribe or they wouldn’t open it. So for the ones that it is about you, don’t worry about them, they’re not going to come.

For most of them it’s about them. It’s about a concern they have. This will probably work for some people but not for me. I sound dumb on Zoom. I hate being on video. I don’t like how I look. My house is messy. I don’t want them to see. I don’t like the sound of my voice. I’m afraid they’re going to record it and put it on social media. I don’t know. Sit down and brainstorm 50 possible reasons. Some of them will be specific to your area. And start speaking to those because even if the step you want people to take is free, it’s a huge step. They have to be vulnerable.

They have to take action. They have to be willing to tell themselves, maybe I am going to commit to improving this part of my life and it’s a huge step. And if you don’t help people make that step, you are failing your clients. People need help believing in themselves, they need help overcoming obstacles. And just taking that little step, I like to think about this. Somebody who comes to one of my courses or coaching intensive, I just did Tryout Coaching, it’s totally free. I guarantee they are better off at the end of that than if they didn’t come.

Whether they sign up for my program or not, doesn’t matter. They are better off if they come and they listen to even part of what I teach them, they are better off. So I am failing people if I don’t sell them on coming. I need to convince them to come, not for my sake, for their sake. You have to sell this step. You have to think about it. It’s the one step in my marketing funnel, I think about the most. It makes the biggest difference in my business whether or not I’m succeeding at getting people to take that step.

So you’re not alone if it’s challenging but it is worthy of a lot of your time and focus and effort. And go take my free training if you haven’t already because we outline this in more detail if you’re like, “I’m confused”, go to jodysfreetraining.com. But I’m going to be offering some things to help you with this step coming up this summer. So stay tuned for that because I feel passionately about helping people just really figure this one out. It’s really important.

Okay, thanks for joining me today for Entre-Talk. I’ll see you next time. Take care. Bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: How to Book More Consults appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Think about the people you often see in your communities. Whether at Church, school, work, or wherever you spend a lot of time, are there people who you deem to be in cliques or clique-y?

Do you feel left out by those people? If you’re in a position of authority, maybe you see your children, students, or fellow humans in cliques and worry. Perhaps, if you paused, you could identify that you are in a clique.

Listen in this week as I dive into the term “clique” and my thoughts on the unhelpful ways we think about this concept. I’m sharing how it’s not loving or connecting, which is ultimately what we all want in our relationships, how to approach being included by other people if you want to, and more helpful ways to think about cliques.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What the term clique implies. * Why I believe it’s not helpful to use the word “clique.” * 2 reasons people might not invite others into their circle. * Why we don’t need to tell other people how to be inclusive and kind. * How we can make people aware of cliques without shaming or guilting them.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 407, Cliques.

Hey there everybody. I want to talk to you about cliques today. Before we do, I just want to celebrate that it’s 75 degrees outside and beautiful and sunny and the grass is turning green and the blossoms are coming alive on the trees. And isn’t it a beautiful time of year? Let’s just pause because if you’re like me and you complain all winter long we should do at least as much gratitude and loving when the weather is like this. My kids are loving the weather. I’m loving the weather. We’re looking forward to summer, which is just around the corner.

We’re trying to just power through these last few weeks of school. We have still a little while to go. We get out pretty late here, but we’re going to make it. We’re going to make it. Okay, so I want to talk about cliques today, clique as in C-L-I-Q-U-E. The kind of clique, not like clicking on a website, clique as in, well, let’s just get the official definition here. A small group of people with shared interests or other features in common who spend time together and do not readily allow others to join them.

That’s the kind of clique I want to talk about today because I had a conversation with some friends recently and this topic came up and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I have so much to say about this.” So I decided to do a podcast episode. Here you go. Maybe you have people that are in whatever communities you associate with, at your church or at the school or at work, wherever it is that you spend time that you would say those people are in a clique or those people are cliquey. Sometimes we call people cliquey.

Maybe you’re feeling left out in some way if you’re thinking that, would be my guess, you’re feeling left out. Or maybe you are in some kind of a position of authority as a parent maybe. Maybe you see your kids being in a clique where you see them have a group of friends that doesn’t readily include others. Or maybe you are a teacher and you see this at a school or a leader in a church setting or something. Maybe you can pause and if you get real with yourself you can identify that maybe you have a clique or are in a clique of some sort.

Wherever you are I just want us to dive into this concept in this term for just a minute and think about some appropriate ways to think about it and what I think are mostly not useful ways to think about it. So when my friends and I were talking about this term we were discussing, are people that we know cliquey, are there cliques, are our friends in a clique, are we in a clique? And I was like, “What does that even mean?” I just gave you the definition as far as how the dictionary online defines it.

But what I mean is let’s say just by way of example, this isn’t what we were talking about but just by way of example let’s say maybe I’m worried that my teenagers are in a clique. I couldn’t go up to them and be like, “Hey, are you guys in a clique? Did you sign up for a clique? Did you join a clique? Did you sign your name somewhere or pay money or agree to be in this clique?” Nobody would say, “Yes, I am in this clique.”

The same way I would say I am a life coach. I am part of The Life Coach School community, I choose to participate in that. And I’m certified through that school and I’m like, “Yes, I’m a Life Coach School coach.” It’s pretty easy for me to define that. Am I in a clique? Most of us would never say yes, because we don’t want to be exclusive of people, but even if we are, it’s not like at a formal official thing. So in other words it goes in the thought line. It is not a fact. It is not a circumstance that anybody that you know is in a clique as far as I know.

I never met anyone that was like, “We’re starting a clique, do you want to join?” It is a thought. It is a story. And the only reason that’s important to identify is because that makes it up for grabs. That makes it optional. And when something like this is up for grabs and optional we just want to question, is it useful to describe it in that way? Is it useful to think of it in that way? And on this one I’m going to go with mostly no, it is not. That’s why I never use that word.

I never say to anyone, “Hey, do you notice that you’re kind of in a clique?” Or, “Don’t you think there’s so many cliques in our ward? Don’t you think people are so cliquey?” I just would never say that. I’m not saying you can’t. I’m not trying to say it’s wrong to. I’m just saying, for me, I’ve decided that is not a useful way to think about it. Do you know why? It is full of judgment for me anyway. If I were to say and in my past when I have said, “Those people are cliquey, they’re in a clique.” What I mean is they’re not very nice. They’re not very friendly. They’re not making me feel very welcome.

I don’t mean like isn’t that cool, good for them that they have such a tight knit group of people that they have known for so long that they’re so comfortable with that they do everything with. That’s so fun for them. That’s not what we mean when we say they’re in a clique. What we mean is they’re not very nice or they’re doing something wrong. It’s full of judgment of them and usually pity for either us or the other people that we think maybe wish that they were part of their group. That’s what it does.

It makes victims out of some of us and villains out of others of us. I do not see an upside to that game. That is what happens in a really good movie, we have victims and villains. We have lots of conflict. We have good guys and bad guys. That makes for a good story. That is dramatic. That is entertaining, but that is not very loving and connecting, which is what we ultimately want. So what is going on, I want to back up for just a minute and notice what is going on when people hang out together a lot and don’t invite others or include others or appear to be very open to others?

And I think that there are only two reasons this happens. The first reason, which is probably the most common reason but not the one our brains go to, is lack of awareness. I don’t mean just overall lack of awareness that you would like to be in their group. I mean genuinely our brains only have so much capacity and attention span on any given day and in any given moment around any given subject. So most of the time it’s because it didn’t even cross their mind to invite you.

They were not thinking about you know. Now, you can use that to feel bad and think I wish they were thinking of me or you can remember that we all just have a certain capacity and a certain amount of people and topics and things that are relevant on our mind at any given moment. And you being irrelevant doesn’t mean that you’re less than or that you’re not cool or not fun or that they don’t want to be friends with you. It means their brain did not come up with it in that moment. That could change down the road, I don’t know. It’s just the way of it, it’s not good or bad, it’s just the reality.

Most of the time it’s lack of awareness. They didn’t think about you. They didn’t realize you wanted to come etc. So I think that this reason is the reason people think, you know what, we should sit our kids down and talk to them about cliques and why they’re bad and how they shouldn’t be in a clique. But I don’t recommend that because of reason number two. And I’ll tell you what I do recommend instead but first I want to talk about reason number two. Number one, lack of awareness.

Number two is that person might be operating from their wounds. They may be acting from their hurt. They may be acting from their pain. So it may be that they are aware. It may be that they kind of know that you want to come or they didn’t forget about you but they didn’t invite you on purpose because they didn’t want you there for whatever reason. If that’s the case it’s always because that person in that moment with that decision is operating from pain.

That is the only reason we do things that are ‘unkind or mean or not inclusive or not’ etc. So their wounds of pain may be their own insecurity. It may be their own scarcity in terms of wanting to get more attention or wanting to outdo you in their life in some way. That can happen. That does happen actually and not just with kids. That happens with adults too, that’s real. But if that’s the case it’s because they’re operating from pain. They’re trying to compensate for their own pain in some way. That is the only reason we ever behave ‘badly’, because we’re operating from pain.

So this brings me to why I would never go, “Hey, do you guys realize that you’re kind of cliquey?” Because first of all, maybe they aren’t aware and we can bring it to their awareness in other ways. But as soon as we use the word ‘clique’ for most of us that implies you’re doing it wrong. And I don’t want to offer them more pain, shame, guilt, judgment etc. That is not going to be the long term fix.

It might get a short term change of behavior but the long term fix is to help them either heal those wounds or at least make decisions from something other than pain. Make decisions from inspiration, motivation, righteous desire, love, service, true service, not just people pleasing. I would love to help shift people into that kind of energy and let them operate from there because they will do amazing things. We don’t have to tell them how to be inclusive and kind. We are all born with the light of Christ.

We know how to be that version of us. It’s just when we’re operating from pain and wounds, we choose otherwise. We ignore that light of Christ within us. We operate from a different place. So as soon as they use the word ‘clique’ to most people that implies, hey, heads up, you’re doing it wrong. It does not bring them into the energy I want, which is motivation, inspiration, love.

So the question becomes, how do we make people aware without giving them shame, guilt and judgment, further increasing the hurt, wound, pain side? I just would use different words personally. I might ask questions. I would begin with curiosity. I would begin with, let’s not sit people down and judge them and tell them what they’re doing wrong. Let’s ask people for their opinions because it’s perfectly natural, normal and healthy to have groups of friends. It’s human nature to gravitate towards people that are like you that have common interests etc.

And that we can keep that healthy part of us and be more inclusive and open but it doesn’t come from like I said, shame and guilt. It will come from something different, something more divine, something holy or something more spiritual and righteous. So I would ask questions like, “What is it like to be a student at your school? And what do you think it’s like for the other students there? And do you ever notice people in your class or your school or in a ward”, or wherever you’re having this conversation, “That seem to feel left out?

Have you ever felt left out? What is that like? Has anyone ever included you in a way that you weren’t expecting and how did that impact you? And doesn’t it feel good to be the person who is inclusive? I know I have opportunity to do that more, do you think you might have opportunity to do that more? I feel like we all do. How could we make this a more regular part of our lives?” I’m all for discussions like that. I personally would just leave the word ‘clique’ out of it. I would just say, “This is natural and normal behavior but how do we improve? How do we become more who we want to be?”

I would even share inspirational stories, share your own examples about when someone included you and how it impacted you. Share examples about when maybe you’ve included someone else and how that impacted you. Stories are always a really powerful way to get us into that really powerful loving space that we want to be in.

The other thing and this is where I would spend the most time is I would talk to, and again if I have maybe a child who’s feeling left out or I have a group. I’m in Young Women’s and this wasn’t about Young Women’s by the way but I’m just using it as an example. But if let’s say my Young Women group, maybe there’s some girls feeling left out. Then I would talk to the whole group about if you’re feeling left out, what do you do? Not to the people who are ‘cliquey’, but to the person feeling left out.

I would say, “How do we appropriately and in a way that feels like you let people know that you would love to be included, how can you invite yourself?” You can invite yourself places, you guys, in what feels like an appropriate way. I know I’m pretty liberal on this one. I will just flat out say, “Can I go? I want to go.” But if you’re not comfortable with that, find what feels like you.

It might just be, “Hey, if you ever do something like that again, I’d love to join you. I just think you guys are so fun. I’d love to spend more time with you. Or I love that activity that you’re doing. I have always wanted to try that. I’d love to be invited if you ever have space.” Let people know that you want to be included. Most people are happy to include us, like I said, it just hasn’t even crossed their mind. Let people know. I love it when people let me know that they want to join me for things.

It doesn’t mean I’m always able to do it but I want to know, I want to know who wants to participate in things that I’m involved in. I just don’t even know. I’m completely unaware most of the time. I’m trying, I’m trying to pay attention but I’m just sometimes not good at it at all. So that is what I choose to believe if people don’t include me. I’m just like, “It didn’t even occur to them or they just didn’t know that I would like to be included. I will let them know.” I will invite people to things. I don’t even have to wait for them to invite me.

I’ll say, “Hey, you guys, let’s all get together and go to dinner.” You can be the one to plan things and invite people if you want to. So that is where I like to spend the most time is how do you become closer friends with a group if you want to? Now, remember, there are those times when you’ve got people in the group who are hurt or afraid or in some kind of pain and they’re operating like they’re intentionally knowingly leaving you out. And that’s a little bit different situation. That’s one that I would say, “Come and get some coaching. I can coach you through it.”

But ultimately this is not about the clique, it’s about the person feeling left out. They are the ones in the driver’s seat. And this is really important. When we walk around thinking they are in a clique, we will make that true for ourselves. We actually contribute to excluding ourselves even if it’s just like we get up and walk away and don’t say anything. We don’t let them know that we want to be invited. We don’t certainly ask them about their lives. We’re not thinking about what it must be like for them and how they’re feeling when we’re thinking, poor me, I’m left out.

So we will make that true in the end. We become a resentful, bitter, grumpy version of ourselves that no one really wants to hang out with. We make our thoughts true. So if I walk around thinking these people are so cliquey, I’m going to create that reality for myself in some way. If I think, people just don’t really know that I want to be included. I’m going to let them know. I’m going to get myself included and/or I’m going to include others. I have a much better chance of creating that result in my life.

So let’s just stop using that word, it’s such a weird word anyway. And it implies that somebody’s doing something wrong. It makes victims and villains out of us. It disconnects us when we make victims and villains. We put ourselves on opposite teams. We are not on opposite teams here, we are human beings. We are the human race and because this normally happens within a community you have a lot more in common than just being human probably.

We’re all on the same team. We all want the same things. We all just want to feel good about ourselves. We all want to feel like we’re doing a good job serving others. We all want to be good people. We all also have needs and desires and things that we try to get met sometimes in weird ways. We’re all just a bunch of humans doing the best we can but we all mean well. We all want to include others and we’re all trying to be kind and sometimes we’re pretty bad at it. Let’s be united and approach it from that place, works far better.

Alright, thanks for joining me today you guys, I’ll see you next time on another episode of Better Than Happy. Take care. Bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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When you start a business, or try anything in your life, it’s super important to understand that what you’re doing might not work. Most people don’t approach their lives this way. Even as a coach, I’m here to nurture your belief, so it might feel like contradictory advice. However, you can believe that you’ll achieve your goal while still understanding that it might not work.

As an entrepreneur, you’ll have ideas all the time. Everything is worth a try. However, if you’re putting pressure on yourself by believing everything you try should work out, you’re setting yourself up for a rollercoaster of emotion and eventually burnout. It’s time to try thinking, “This might not work.”

Tune in this week because I’m talking about the idea of approaching everything you do in your business through the lens of understanding that it might not work. I’m sharing how this mindset will serve you best on your journey as an entrepreneur, and how to leverage this belief as you try new things.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: Why understanding that things might not work out is just as important as believing you can achieve your goal. * How putting too much pressure and belief on the things you’re trying puts you on an exhausting rollercoaster of joy and disappointment. * My own practice of allowing bad ideas in order to find the good ones. * How to start leveraging the thought, “This might not work…”* in your business.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Get my Free Training on How to Develop a Coaching Practice * Simon Sinek: Down a Rabbit Hole with Seth Godin * Linchpin: Are You Indispensable? by Seth Godin

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: This Might Not Work.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.Hey there everybody. How’s it going today? Welcome to an Entrepreneur Talk episode. I just want to share with you a DM I just got literally just came in from a lovely listener and follower, thank you for this message. I’m going to keep your name anonymous since I didn’t get permission to share this. but this is from somebody who took my free training, which you can get at jodysfreetraining.com.

And she said, “Hi, Jody, I’m just reaching out to thank you for creating the free training on how to develop a coaching practice. I can’t find the ad on your feed, I honestly don’t even know how I found it but I’m a transformational coach. I know I’m a good coach but I’m not a good entrepreneur yet. And for the last few days I started to doubt myself to the point of looking for another job. This training as simple and clear as it is, helped me so much. Thank you.”

So to this transformational coach I am so glad that you’re not abandoning your passion, your calling and your ability to help impact the world. And to anybody else listening who has a coaching practice or any other similar service based business that wants to figure out how to cut through the overwhelm and all the different advice out there. Go check out my free training at jodysfreetraining.com. And then stay tuned. We’re going to have a lot more help coming this year.

I’m very excited about the things my team and I are working on, so pay attention to your emails and keep listening to this podcast and we’ll get the word out when things are ready to go.

I want to talk to you today about the idea of approaching everything you do in your business through the lens of this might not work. I had this realization because I was listening to, I think it was Seth Godin, and I wish I could remember. I heard him on a podcast interviewed recently with Simon Sinek on Simon Sinek’s podcast. So it might have been on there. But it also just might be in his book because I started listening to his book, Linchpin, which is an older book he published a while ago, but I hadn’t read it before and he mentioned it as one of his favorite books that he’s written.

And so I started listening to it and it really is brilliant, highly recommend. So anyway in one of those two places, I think it was Seth Godin, in one of those places that said that he goes into everything with the idea, this might not work. And it wasn’t until he said that that I realized I do the same thing. Well, yeah, I didn’t even think about it because I just sort of took for granted that maybe everybody does that. That’s when I realized that most people don’t.

And here’s the other thing as a coach, I’m always trying to help people nurture their belief and tell them the importance of believing in yourself. And so I know that feels contradictory advice. How could I tell you, you’ve got to believe that you’re going to be able to achieve your goal and at the same time go into with the thought, this might not work and here is why. Both of those things are equally important. Is because the way that you’re going to achieve your goal, the timeline by which you achieve your goal is very unknown.

In my experience, not just in my business, even in my personal life, the way at which I have been able to let’s just say, get married for example or become a mother or buy a home or any of the things that I’ve wanted to do and that I’ve set after. Have not usually happened in the way or on the timeline that I thought they would happen. Sometimes they have been easier in some ways. And in some ways they have been harder or taken longer.

So if you’re putting your belief in the how or you put too much belief in the things that you’re trying then you’re setting yourself up to be on that rollercoaster of disappointment and happiness and success and joy when it does work but that rollercoaster, even though there are highs on it is exhausting. That is what leads to burnout, that is what wears people out. That’s what makes people abandon their businesses. So let me give some examples of when this mindset might come up and how to leverage it to serve you best in your business.

So as the visionary CEO of my business I have ideas all the time, I have ideas about things we should try, things we might want to change. And a lot of my ideas are bad ideas, they are. I have to allow the ideas to come in order to find the good ones but that doesn’t mean that I have a lot of good ideas, I just have a lot of ideas. And for me, my process is that I need to be able to talk through them out loud, sometimes just hearing myself talk about them gives me clarity about whether they’re good ideas or not.

Other times I need a little bit of feedback. I need to bounce it off people. I need to have people kind of push back on it. And I need to have some discussion around ideas. And a lot of times when I share ideas with people, they’ll go, “That is such a good idea. That’s brilliant.” Which again, I like hearing that I have brilliant ideas.

But whenever they’re like, “That’s totally going to get you there. That’s totally going to work. Oh, yeah, for sure, everybody’s going to love that. People are definitely going to sign up for that. That’s going to sell out easily. That’s going to be a win for sure.” People say these things and you think that would be what I would want to hear, but I have this part of my brain that’s like, “Or not.” And sometimes I say that out loud.

Sometimes I just keep it to myself, but I don’t really ever go all in on this is the thing for sure that’s going to get us where we’re trying to go, achieve whatever goals, serve people in the way we’re trying to, this is the thing. I really don’t. What I do is I go into it with, “Yeah, maybe, I think it’s a good idea. I think it could work and also it might not work. It might not work, let’s go.” Because when I go into it with that mindset then it not working isn’t a big shock and a big disappointment if it doesn’t.

And it also doesn’t mean that we’re not going to achieve our goal in the end. It just means we’re going to have to try something different. That wasn’t going to be the way. Now we’re going to have to try something else. Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t mean I’m not still disappointed. I would love for everything to just work the first time. There’s still some disappointment but it’s not like the rollercoaster of that’s amazing, look what we did. And oh my goodness, that didn’t work, how depressing and this, how discouraging.

I don’t want you to be on that rollercoaster, that is not fun. So it’s, this might work, I think it’s a good idea. I like the idea. I’m excited about this idea but also it might not work but let’s just try it anyway. Let’s just try it and see. You know how we will know? By trying it out and seeing. I can tell you, I’ve done this with marketing strategies, with sales techniques, with programs, with pricing. I’ve done this with everything and I continue to do it. We have some pretty big changes coming up in our business in the next little while that I’ll be telling you about.

And in my mind I’m like this is going to help us get where we’re trying to go. It’s going to make things even better for all of our clients. It’s going to make things even better for us. And yet in the back of my mind I’m like, or not, it might not work. So you’ve got to know that. That’s the healthiest way to go into anything in your business because then if it doesn’t work I’m not going to quit and get discouraged and walk away. I’m just going to go, “Okay, well, let’s shift it again, let’s try something different.”

Okay, so I want you to think about your business like a science experiment because it is like a science experiment. It is not a reflection of your value or worth or whether or not you’re capable or whether or not you’re smart or good or spiritual or any of that. It’s not any of that, it’s just a science experiment. Think about a scientist going into a lab trying to find a cure for a disease. She does not go, “Oh man, I thought that this was going to be the cure.” She goes, “Okay, not that, let’s try something else. Okay, not that, let’s try something else.”

And she continues to learn as she tries new things every time. When you can think of it like a science experiment you expect the word ‘experiment’ means we expect there to be a lot of trial and error. Here is the other thing I want to say, you’ve got to take into account your risk level. So I’m not talking about mortgage your home, second mortgage your home and deplete your 401(k) and empty your savings account and go all in and know that it might not work. I do not do things like that to build my business.

I’m not willing to take that kind of a risk because I know it might not work. Now, does that minimize my growth? Yeah, probably. I’m okay with that. I’m not willing to risk anything that is going to be really problematic in my life or in my business. I do not take money out of my business that I couldn’t afford to not get a return on. I only invest an amount that if I don’t get a return we would be okay.

The same with my personal life. In the beginning of my business when I was using some of my personal funds to fund the business. I went and got a little, small work from home part-time job and I used that money to fund the business so that I didn’t have to worry about impacting our family budget because we didn’t have a lot of wiggle room in the budget. So I only put in money that I could afford to ‘lose’. I never think of it as a loss. I think of it as it cost me that much money to do that experiment, but some people would use the other word.

The same with my time. I’m not going to stress myself out working night and day, not getting enough sleep, not being with my family in the way that I want to in the hopes that one day I’ll create something where I have a perfectly balanced life. That doesn’t really tend to work out so well for most people. So whatever I put into it, I’m willing to invest that in this experiment. I’m not investing it in the final outcome because I don’t know how long it will take to get to that point. I’m investing it in the experiment.

Think about a project, if you’re like me and you ever have done a craft project or a sewing project, that’s what kinds of things are kind of fun for us to do at times. My husband will sometimes go buy some lumber and build something or he’s really into guitars. He bought a guitar kit and built a guitar. So whatever it is for you, usually we’re willing to put time and maybe some money into supplies or what have you in the name of a hobby. We don’t put a lot of pressure on what are we going to get in the end out of that hobby.

And you have to think of your business like a hobby that ultimately we want to generate revenue. That is the goal, don’t get me wrong, but how much money or time or other resources can you put in to grow or achieve your desired outcomes as quickly as possible? Don’t go overboard. Don’t put yourself in a risky situation because then you’re going to be operating from stress and overwhelm and fear and scarcity which makes you less effective at what you’re trying to do in the first place.

So this might not work. I think it’s a good idea. I’m excited and I know for sure we’re going to achieve our goal. Maybe this will be the way but maybe not, let’s go. And make sure you’re not risking more than you are comfortable walking away from. Alright everybody, thanks for joining me for Entre-Talk. I’ll see you on Friday for our regular episode. Take care.

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This week, I’m bringing my sister Natalie Clay onto the podcast. She’s been here a couple of times before, and since those appearances several years ago, she’s built out her own course around marriage prep and gained a ton of wisdom and experience when it comes to coaching couples around their marriages.

If you’re getting married soon or you have loved ones preparing for marriage, Natalie’s Marriage Prep Course is a real game-changer. Even if you’re already married, Natalie has so many nuggets to share about how to make your marriage even better. If you don’t know Natalie, you’re going to love her and I’m excited that you get to learn from her.

Tune in this week to discover why preparing for marriage is so important. Natalie is sharing the value of having knowledge of what challenges to expect and some tools to help you navigate these inevitable challenges, the myths about marriage and romance that aren’t helping, and she’s giving us her practical tips for building a close, lasting marriage.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The specific challenges that occur in marriages, whether they’re new couples or they’ve been married for years. * How too many people wait until their marriage is in a painful place before they get help. * Why having some knowledge of what marriage involves and some tools to help you navigate it will allow you to have the best possible experience of marriage. * How Natalie’s course would make a better wedding gift than a set of towels. * What you’ll learn inside Natalie’s Marriage Prep Course. * Why romance isn’t about everything being easy, but about coming out of challenges stronger together. * Natalie’s practical tips for growing closer and truly being a team in your marriage around decisions, sex, money, and kids.

Mentioned on the Show:

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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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Natalie Clay: Website | Instagram | Facebook | Podcast
Natalie’s Marriage Prep Course
1. DON’T GET MARRIED Until You Listen to This Episode with Natalie Clay
1. Couples Counselling vs. Couples Coaching with Natalie Clay
1. Boundaries
Esther Perel

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 406, Marriage Prep With Natalie Clay

Hello, everybody. I have such a treat in store for you today because I got my sister, Natalie Clay, to come on the podcast. She has been on a couple of times before but not for a very long time. And I’ll tell you that Natalie is someone that people instantly are drawn to. Any time I’ve had her on the podcast or back in the day when she used to coach a little bit in Be Bold with me. It took me years to stop getting messages from people like, “We wish Natalie was still here.” And the only reason she left is because she has her own coaching practice.

She does couples coaching and she’s been doing that for many, many years. She’s gained so much experience and wisdom as well as, she is someone who just soaks in this subject, she loves it so much. She’s constantly reading, learning and growing her knowledge base in this area. And so she has wanted forever to create this marriage prep course which I am so excited about. If you are getting married soon or you have loved ones, friends, family members who are getting married, this course is going to be a game changer.

I’m so excited that she’s finally putting it out into the world. Even if you aren’t in that situation, maybe you’ve been married for a very long time. Natalie has so many nuggets that she shares with us in this episode about how to make your marriage better based on, again, all of the experience that she has coaching couples on everything from little things to really big serious problems. And I’m so excited for you to learn from her so let’s turn it over to my interview with my sister, Natalie Clay.

Jody: Natalie Clay. It’s been a long time since you’ve been on the podcast.

Natalie: Too long. I’m glad to be here.

Jody: Too long. Thanks for coming back. I’m excited that you’re here. Everybody loves hearing from you so much. So let me just do a brief introduction and you can add whatever you want or correct me if I get it wrong. Natalie Clay is one of my two sisters. And she has been a coach, how many years have you been a coach now?

Natalie: Five years.

Jody: Five years, a long time. And she specializes in coaching couples. I’ll let her tell you about that. I’ll just say that it was really fun when I first started my business, Natalie and I worked together a little bit. She kind of helped me and then she realized, wait a second, I could do this on my own. And so she started her own coaching practice and she’s always been really passionate about marriage and relationships and it’s a more complicated dynamic when you’re coaching the couples. And you’ve always loved that.

And so it’s been fun to watch you just help people through your business doing that. What do you want to say about this?

Natalie: No, I think that’s all accurate. I love coaching couples. I just find it’s an area that we cause ourselves so much pain and there’s a lot of things that we don’t understand about it. So it just feels like an area for obvious relief when it comes to coaching.

Jody: And you’ve coached, I don’t know, I only know a little bit about the clients you’ve coached, so fill in the gaps. But it’s my understanding that you’ve coached all the way from just little, hey, we’re fine, but we feel like maybe we could be happier, more connected, or preventative type coaching all the way to really extreme. There have been betrayals and this is the last straw, we kind of hate each other. Kind of both ends of the continuum, right?

Natalie: For sure. There’s a lot of themes throughout and I mean I think everybody goes through periods of struggle at one time or another. But at the same time we have this idea that if I’m a good person and I marry a good person then we’re going to have some struggles but it shouldn’t be too intense because we’re really good people that can communicate and work it out. And so that alone causes us extra trouble I’d say. But yeah, I mean there’s common themes but certainly I’ve coached people on all sorts of things. I continue to coach people on all sorts of things.

I have a membership, Marriage Lab, I won’t get into but in there we are talking about resentments. We’re talking about frustrations and we’re talking through infidelity. I mean it’s really, I can’t think of anything that’s surprised me recently that has come to me that I think I’ve pretty much heard it all.

Jody: Yeah. And you’ve coached on some pretty extreme things. So anybody listening going, “I bet I could surprise her.” I bet you couldn’t.

Natalie: I bet you couldn’t.

Jody: I bet you couldn’t. And you, I know have been talking about doing this forever and I’m so glad that you’re doing this because I agree. I think it’s so needed, but you just created a new course that you’re going to be offering, so tell us about that just a little bit because we want to dive into a little bit what’s in that course. So tell us what it is and why you created it, if you would.

Natalie: Yes. So I am so excited, I’m launching my course, marriage backwards launched technically speaking.

Jody: Marriage prep.

Natalie: Marriage prep.

Jody: So this is before you get married. What a novel idea that before we get married maybe there are some things we need to learn. Okay, continue.

Natalie: But that’s exactly right. So what I found in coaching couples is oftentimes clients would say, “Why didn’t anyone teach us this.” Or, “I wish so badly I’d known this 20 years ago.” And I just thought, yeah, it would be helpful to have a little bit of instruction or some tools going into this most important relationship where we just again go into it pretty naively thinking we should just be happy.

So forever I’ve just thought, man, it would be really helpful and it would save us a lot of time when we’re trying to problem solve and a lot of self-loathing and a lot of disconnection where instead of waiting until we get to the point of things are really terrible and we need help which tends to be a really shaming point. And fearful for both people tend to feel afraid, what’s this person going to say because I know I’m also doing a lot of things wrong.

It gets to this pretty painful place before people get help where my thinking is if you just have some tools going into it and a better understanding of what to expect and how to navigate challenges that come up. Well, that’s going to set us a lot further ahead.

Jody: I love it so much. And I remember when I actually read after I’d gotten married but I was pretty young. And I was working in corporate and one of the guys I worked with was engaged. And he was a member of another faith, I want to say maybe the Catholic faith, but anyway he was going through a marriage prep kind of course through his faith, through his religion. And he would come and talk to me about it. He’d be like, “Yeah, this week we talked about money and we had to disclose our debt. And then we talked about how many kids we want and we talked about sex.”

And he was just kind of telling me and I was, again being newly married and just going through kind of the shock of this is great but also this is kind of a lot. I was like, “Why do we not have, that’s such a good idea, why do we not have something like that?” So anyway, I’m just so glad that you’re doing it.

Natalie: Yes. And along that point, it makes me feel so bad for people because if you’re going into it thinking, again, if I’m a good person or you are and we do have things available to us like prayer and the spirit can guide us and we can get to answers. I fully believe in all that and we want to leverage all of that. But also the way we get answers to things is through knowledge and through learning. You go to the doctor if you’re sick, you don’t just rely on inspiration to heal your bones.

So I think that can lead to a lot of shaming again if we feel like I must be doing something wrong, it shouldn’t be this hard and I’m not finding relief. Well, yeah, let’s prepare ourselves to make this a really great experience rather than everybody knows marriage is hard. It doesn’t have to be that experience.

Jody: That’s right, yeah. Okay, so this is a class that we’ll tell everybody where to go grab. But I would highly recommend, if you’re a young person who is engaged or just dating, or maybe you’re even newly married or maybe you’re like me. I have kids who aren’t getting married yet but in the next little while they will. If you have kids who are dating or maybe getting married soon it’s I think an amazing wedding gift. I think better than the towels. Towels are important but let’s make sure they’re set up for success. So let’s go through and I know there are six main points and six classes.

And let’s just have you touch briefly on the types of things that people will get out of this course.

Natalie: So I drew from the topics that I find are the most helpful in problem solving. Because really what I attempt to do is help empower you to know that you can figure things out, that you can get through challenges. My goal is not to get you to a place of marital bliss. It’s funny, when I’m looking at things for marketing, I’m looking at stock photos. And if you type in couples, they’re all piggyback writing and support. This is not what…

Jody: It doesn’t look real.

Natalie: That doesn’t even seem romantic to me because this idea that if things are just easy, that that’s romance. I’m like, “Isn’t romance going through hard things and coming out stronger” To me that feels much more honest and authentic. So everything that I have put together for these courses are things that I feel are really helpful and provide tangible tools to navigate things that are inevitably going to come up in your situation. Yes, it’s going to be varying in the degree of intensity based on our personality and a whole bunch of other things.

But there’s certain things that you’re going to be facing when you decide to join your life with another human, whether we’re talking about just in the decisions we make. Even practically speaking, living with another person, a roommate, joining our finances, all these things that kind of make sense that we might need a little bit of help instead of just assuming we should just be off and running, it should be easy.

Jody: Okay. So first one you say is communication.

Natalie: Yes. So obviously…

Jody: That matters?

Natalie: Well, I think people know this. People know, and in fact when couples are struggling and they come to me for a consultation, every time hands down they’ll say, “We’re just terrible at communication.” When in actuality we’re all pretty good at communicating. It’s the time we choose to communicate. If we’re communicating when we’re really upset and defensive and we think things should be different, then yeah, we’re not going to be good at communicating. So that is the class that I feel is super important just to help manage so many different things.

But really I do offer some step-by-step tools for how to handle situations when there’s a big explosion or when there’s just maybe, we tend towards being passive aggressive or not. How to make our communication much more honest and authentic while also allowing for us to have our human struggles. So there’s different ways that we go about that, one of those being we have to stop thinking that we should agree on everything, that communication doesn’t have to look like we get to a place where my truth is your truth.

We have to remember we’re not dealing at the level of eternal truth and most of these things that we’re trying to implement. So when we keep in mind that we’re usually both aligned on the thing that matters most, which is how we parent our child, that we feel some financial freedom. And we have very different approaches to that. So this class really aims to offer you a step-by-step to account for us getting triggered in a moment, sometimes reacting and having some of those moments that aren’t pretty and that’s okay.

What do we do next to recover so that we can come closer together and find resolve maybe in a way we didn’t anticipate?

Jody: Love it. So good. What is your thought on, before we go to the next one, what is your thought on the advice of don’t go to bed angry?

Natalie: Yeah, I think that’s maybe the worst advice ever.

Jody: Why?

Natalie: Well, I think that works for some people. And again this is a really individualized approach because I don’t like this idea that someone tells you this is how it should go. I think that gets us into more trouble than anything. But for some people that really works and they’re able to get to a resolve and they don’t like going to bed angry, great. But I think for the vast majority of couples, if you’re feeling upset, that’s really not a great time to try and talk through things because you’re really feeling pretty defensive.

And then you’re basically like two attorneys trying to argue who’s the bigger jerk or who’s the one that was insensitive. And we don’t really want to win that argument. And that doesn’t do much to get us to better communication because communication is really a give and take. And if we’re just trying to feel better quickly, well, we can get there but that’s going to be usually through intimidation, manipulation, giving in which leads to resentment.

So I think sometimes the best thing you can do is give it some time, sleep on it, see how things look tomorrow. And again it’s not a big deal if we decided, that’s going to happen sometimes instead of thinking it’s a problem because we’re both angry going to sleep. That’s more problematic.

Jody: Yeah. And I feel like at night when I’m more tired, everything is more dramatic and I’m more emotional. And sometimes I think, no, we just need to go to bed and sleep and then we can revisit this when we’re rested and calm and yeah.

Natalie: Isn’t that so true? If you’re having those arguments that are really long and go hours long, you’re not helping your situation any.

Jody: 2:00am is not the time to discuss it.

Natalie: No, you are not getting closer to better communication with each other, I can tell you right now.

Jody: No, okay, good, I’m glad I’m doing that one right. I always go to bed angry. No, I’m just kidding. Okay, let’s talk about number two, autonomy.

Natalie: Now, that’s a strange one, a strange topic for a class.

Jody: On marriage.

Natalie: On marriage. But here’s why I think it’s so important. So it kind of negates the idea that certainly, thank you, Tom Cruise, we’ve all heard of, You Complete Me.

Jody: Gosh, I still love that movie, but you’re right, that is not a good [crosstalk].

Natalie: It’s a fun idea, and gosh, [crosstalk].

Jody: I wish Jake could complete me. I love him but he does not complete me.

Natalie: It would be so much easier, it would be good. I’m going to do it right now. So if you find that, man, enjoy that and just be grateful that you’ve found it.

Jody: Ride that out if you find it.

Natalie: Because bless you, you win.

Jody: But if you’re not married yet, don’t expect that.

Natalie: Maybe don’t expect it, if it happens it’ll be a bonus. But that idea of you complete me is super problematic. So this is my way of undoing the damage Tom Cruise has inadvertently done to marriage because truly when we think that, hey, if I’m insecure and now I’ve found this person that’s going to help me feel like I’m loved all the time, that’s so great and it feels that way often when you’re dating so that’s the trick. But then guess what, when my insecurity bumps up against your insecurity and someone has to give in there, we’re kind of at odds.

So we’re not going to be able to complete each other just in that moment, maybe other times, but let’s let it go in that moment. So I just think it’s so important to remember that we are individuals and in fact we were originally attracted to one another for a lot of our differences. And it’s great to be unique and it’s really freeing to be unique. So I teach ways to work within a couple so that it doesn’t feel like selfishness. It doesn’t feel like stonewalling or ignoring one another and separating when you allow yourself to be different.

It’s actually hugely freeing and it makes us even that much more attractive to one another.

Jody: That’s so good. There’s an older couple who I won’t name their name because I didn’t get permission to tell this story but they’re someone that I met through some of my work. And they’re very well known in the church. I’ll just say that.

Natalie: You have my mind going.

Jody: Let your imagination run wild. But they have been married for a very long time and they appear to be relatively happy, I’m sure they have bad days. But I asked them, “What’s the secret, tell us, to being married this long and you guys seem like you still like each other?” And the woman said, “I just let him do whatever he wants and he lets me do whatever I want.” And then she kind of gave some examples of one time she wanted to travel somewhere and she told him, “I want to go on this trip.” And he was like, “Alright.”

And then she said, “Will you come with me?” And he said, “No, I don’t want to go there.” But he’s like, “But you can go.” And so kind of like you said, obviously we’re not saying, let somebody mistreat you, let somebody, there are limits and boundaries I know. But I think what you’re saying is so key. And then here’s what the man in the couple said. He said, “Yeah, we do, we just kind of let each other do what the other person wants but also”, he said, “If I get really frustrated with her I just pray to God to change me in the way that I need to be changed.”

And I was like, “Yes, this is what I’m trying to tell you.” He was like, “And it works, 100% of the time. I just pray to God, change me to not be frustrated.” Anyway, it’s like you said, that autonomy, I know, I’ve observed this too in other couples that seem to be doing well in their marriage. And they both have things that they value. They have things they do together but they also have things or are doing on their own and they respect that in one another.

Natalie: Yes. And it makes so much more sense because there’s not one other person in the world that we really want to spend every minute with. We haven’t had that experience our entire life. If you think about even your closest friend who has been the most natural in terms of friendship for you. There’s still things that you don’t necessarily go to them for or you don’t want with them. We still need our whole tribe, we need. Different people bring out different things in us. And we accept that that’s okay.

It’s just that we have this false idea in marriage that if it’s a good relationship, that we should be able to find all that in one another, which unfortunately, that does lead to a lot of dumbing down of what we might want to prevent contention and things. And all that gets pretty messy.

Jody: And it puts so much pressure on that one relationship. It’s just impossible, yeah. That’s good, I like that. Third thing is you talk about roles. The woman’s role is in the home. I’m assuming that’s what you mean.

Natalie: That’s where it begins, the woman’s role is in the home and the man is to be in charge. He’s the man. You’re the woman. Where’s the breakdown, people? Kidding, everyone, kidding. I hope that soundbite gets used minus the kidding part.

Jody: Yeah, we’ll just put that then we’ll quote Natalie Clay.

Natalie: That’s right, Natalie Clay Coaching.

Jody: Some people would really appreciate it actually, they’d be like, “Yeah.”

Natalie: Yeah, I’ll get a lot more male clients [crosstalk]. So yeah, roles is just an interesting one because I think it’s interesting and worthwhile for us to have a class where we take some time to kind of think through some of the roles that maybe we’re anticipating. Or that we want or we think we’ll want, but that will likely change too over time. We don’t always want the role we wanted yesterday or we might think that we want this and then not and all that’s okay.

But just kind of understanding roles a little bit differently where this isn’t a political discussion. I’m not trying to push anyone to align with anything that works for me. But being open to, you’re going to have a specific way and it’s going to be different than maybe your parents and your fiancé’s parents and that’s okay. That we’re not trying to conform to a specific way, but we’re allowing your relationship to be as unique as the two of you. And roles definitely play into that.

So even just taking some time to really think through what we’re anticipating with that is kind of helpful just to see if some things come up. And it’s like, well, I thought that it was going to be much more of a team effort in childcare or in earning money, or I thought it’s really important to me to be the breadwinner and you want to earn money. Where I think we talk about these things in a much less threatening way before they have triggered some of our insecurities, it can head off a lot of pain.

Jody: Do you think in this section, because I think back to when I was engaged, if I’m picturing Jake and I going through this course and talking about roles. And I think I would have said, “I really want to be a stay at home mom and raise the kids.” And then once I had kids and everything and worked for a while out of necessity first of all, but then I ended up loving it, then my ideas about that changed. And with all of these we’re going to be married hopefully for eternity. So there’s got to be room for people to change and grow and even change their minds, right?

Natalie: For sure. So it’s kind of the point of all of this is we’re going to talk through what some of our ideas are. And then we’re going to talk through how to navigate situations where there are changes in what we anticipated in ourself or each other because that is going to likely happen, it just does. And how we choose to view that and how we make things work instead of again, the point of all this, going to a place of just deciding, we’re just a bad match, or this is a big problem. That’s never the case.

Jody: And I feel like it’s dangerous territory when people misunderstand that we’re not like, “Okay, we’re going to get married, I’m promising.” You and I have a mutual friend who promised when they got married that she would never cut her hair. And what is it, 40 years later she has the exact same Marcia Brady style hair. And we’re just like, “Seriously?”

Natalie: I think that works for them, she loves it and he loves it.

Jody: And that works for them and that’s great. I’m just saying, I also coach a lot of people who are like, “Well, my husband thinks when we got married.” Or even sometimes one partner chooses to leave the church. And I know that’s challenging and emotional and don’t get me wrong, but it’s seen as a betrayal. When we got married this is what we agreed to. And there has to be room. I love this conversation about roles in general, that it’s not like, “Okay, let’s spit and shake hands on it. This is how it’s going to be.”

It’s more like, we get to define our roles is what you’re saying. And it’s up to us and we get to redefine them any time that’s necessary. And ideally we want to try to get to common ground on them but we’ve got to be open to redefining as necessary.

Natalie: Yes, that’s exactly right. And I think the point of all of this, what are we hoping for? Well, most people hope that when they choose to marry someone that they’re going to go through life with a partner that they feel is supportive, that they’re also able to support. That they grow happier through and stronger through life’s experiences. So when we keep in mind that that’s our objective, then when we talk about this it’s, “Okay, are we handling it in a way that’s attacking that foundation or are we using it to grow and become stronger?” Which ultimately often requires vulnerability.

Is this a threat to my ego if my partner’s making more money than me? Or is this a threat to my ego that I always envisioned I could like myself if I’m in this role. So just attacking it from a different angle and knowing, okay, but if the point of this is for us to grow closer together then we have to allow for some flexibility. One thing I always like to say is, I really feel the best case scenario is if we think of our marriage not as a relationship where we can avoid all the hardships of life because that would forego all of our opportunities for growth.

But if instead we view this partnership as I’m going to try and make my role to remind them that they’re doing better than their brain always tells them they’re doing. And if that’s for the most part their take for me too, we’re in a pretty good situation to be able to navigate our human sides and our ups and our downs. And yeah, we’re going to have some moments that conflict and we’re going to feel at odds and we have to allow for that. And again, we’re going to provide tools to help you navigate those situations instead of just have to eliminate them all and just be piggyback riding all the time but I just like that approach a lot better.

Jody: That’s so good. I feel like I need to take that on. I’m going to make it my job to try to make Jake feel like he’s doing a little bit better than he thinks he is.

Natalie: And it’s so counterintuitive.

Jody: It is because I’m like, “I should just point out to him how it would be a little better if he did this.”

Natalie: I can’t tell you all the times this happens when I’m pointing this out with my private clients. And someone will say, “But he’s not spending enough time with the kids.” I’m like, “I know it seems so natural to want to correct him on that because you’re afraid of what’s going to happen for the kids and this and this and this. But if you let go of that, that he’s just going to give into it and never spend time with the kids. But really if you make it your job to remind him when he said, “You know what, I just don’t want to be there with the kids tonight to put them down, is that alright?”

If you’re like, “Yeah, of course, you had a rough day, everything is fine, go relax.” It feels so counterintuitive, we feel like we’re losing control and it’s just he’s never going to spend time.

Jody: It’s not fair, I have to do it now.

Natalie: Yes, but it’s the opposite because when we set things up and someone knows we’re critical of their behavior, it takes on a lot more weight.

Jody: I love that. Wow. I’m going to have to think about that one. Even to be like, “Hey, listen, I know you love those kids and those kids know you love them and you needing a break from tonight doesn’t change that.” And then because in their minds we all do this. We all beat ourselves up, I’m a terrible mom. If I love my kids more I would want to be with them. And when you can help try to overcome that for them, that’s when they become better, that’s when they become more their best version of themselves.

Natalie: There’s so many benefits to it because not only, yes, exactly what you said. But also then what are we modeling for our kids? That there’s not an exact way to be a good parent and I see this all the time where people grow up and they say, “Well, my parents always did this so I should be doing this.” So it’s how we’re moving that and saying, no. Showing that we can support one another, whether we’re showing up the way we want them to or not or we think they should or not, all of that.

But also even if you just think of it in a different context of, we don’t want to do anything from manipulation. Everything that I teach is really based on having a more honest dynamic and getting out of the natural instinct to manipulate through fear and intimidation or making them feel sorry for us. That’s just how we’ve naturally trained ourselves to be unfortunately. Take the example, you mentioned if somebody decides, their spouse decides to leave the church.

Well, what does fear and judgment do? It puts them in a position where they have to make a hard and fast decision about that whereas if it’s like, “Listen, this is your journey, you’ve figured things out and it’s okay that I have my opinions about it.” But if my job is still to remind you, you’re doing better than you think that instantly sets you up to support them in such a more honest way and support you and say it’s okay that I’m struggling with this, I’m going to assume the best about me also and it’s okay I’m having a hard time with it.

But then it means you can come and go as feels honest to you and is what you want to do. It doesn’t have to be this, well, if I decide to come back, now I have to explain that I’m back or I’m in or out. So we don’t want to manipulate. But if we’re trying to encourage people in any direction you’re going to have the most success doing that in a really honest, supportive way.

Jody: So good. Okay, the fourth thing they’re going to learn is money. I already know what this one is about. The man is in charge.

Natalie: That’s right, yeah, and the woman spends too much. Next.

Jody: The woman spends too much, alright, got that one down. What else might people learn though?

Natalie: And just to be very clear on that, I work with couples where they feel the man spends too much. It’s not always the woman. But also, yes, money, I think people always hear, “Money is something that needs to be talked about.” Because this is one of the main reasons people divorce. People love to say that, it’s either for sex or for money. Is it because, and I’ve worked with hundreds of couples and money comes up on occasion but much less frequently than most other topics.

Jody: That’s interesting.

Natalie: Yeah, but I do still think it’s important to talk through because it can be a point of contention. And I think it can be really freeing to know, let’s just assume the best about both of us instead of deciding who’s doing it right, meaning who wants to save and who’s doing it wrong, meaning they want to spend. That’s really missing out on the nuance of our habits and why we choose each other and what we can bring out in one another and what we have the opportunity to teach each other. So there is a lot there that I do think is helpful to know.

And again, going into marriage I think it can be helpful to have this conversation so that you don’t go into it either assuming something and being stressed out if the spending’s not happening the way you want, or go into it always feeling guilty and kind of hiding, I shouldn’t be spending this. Neither of those are needed.

Jody: Yeah, that’s true. Do you get into specifics about, I know there’s not a one size fits all of how to manage your money as a couple, but do you give ideas and options in this part?

Natalie: Yes, I do because different things work for different people. So again the premise of everything is let’s not try to conform to any one way because it’s only the right way if it gets you the results you want.

And if the results we’re wanting are allowing ourselves to be human and supporting one another and developing a more honest and closer relationship then we have to let go of this idea that there’s a right and a wrong way to handle money and things. But yes, we do talk through some practical ideas that maybe we didn’t think through before, where if our idea is we’re married so we have one account and all our money goes into that account and we both spend responsibly. That works for some people and it doesn’t work for others. So we will talk about other ways.

Jody: That did not work for me and my husband, I’ll just say. But we felt, I think both Jake and I felt you’re not supposed to have separate accounts.

Natalie: Like you’re keeping secrets.

Jody: Like you’re keeping secrets or you’re not together or whatever. And having separate accounts saved us financially and in many other ways. So yeah, I love what you’re saying. That doesn’t mean separate accounts, that’s for everyone, but there’s not a one size fits all. And it might take some time of living together and figuring out, we have this weakness, this problem to really land on how you want to manage your money.

Natalie: That’s right. And it’s so interesting because we do choose people who are very different from us in key areas, that’s what we’re drawn to and we’ll get into all of that. But it is really interesting but that’s really great because it can round us out and it is better if we’re functioning as a team. We want different strengths, we want people to play different roles, that’s really important.

But it becomes a problem and a challenge only when we feel that ours is being attacked, that maybe it’s not okay and then we go into that shame, blame trap which is I have to make a case against why you’re not considerate or why I’m just never going to get this right. And all of that is really destructive. So yeah, we just want to talk about it as who we are is just information and how do we make things work. So all this is much more, and this is coaching in general, is much more solutions focused rather than trying to solve for your temperament or anything like that.

Jody: Okay, that’s good, I like that. Money, I’m always fascinated at how much emotion and shame and drama we have around money. So I think that’s a really important one. As well as the next one which is sex and intimacy.

Natalie: Yes. This is so important because there’s a lot of things that go along with this. I put it separate sex and intimacy because it doesn’t just have to be intimacy comes from sex. Yes, sex can create deeper intimacy. It also has the potential to really decrease our level of intimacy.

Jody: So how do you define intimacy?

Natalie: Yeah, intimacy, I would think of that as closeness to vulnerability. So I think the sexual relationship really provides a great opportunity for that but maybe not in the way we think. Again, if our idea is I’m trying my best and they’re trying their best, we’re good people, therefore this should be a thing that just comes together naturally. Well, it might and there are some couples it does come together naturally for. But the vast, vast majority of couples I work with, this is an issue, because there’s almost always a higher and a lower desire partner.

And then dealing with that in such shaming and blaming ways, it really attacks the level of emotional intimacy also that we’re experiencing. So I like to think of the sexual relationship as something that, yeah, if it comes together for you naturally, great, that’s fantastic. I’m glad you have that as a strength in your relationship. If it doesn’t, just know that you’re in the majority actually.

And maybe this is something that we can as we work through different ways to be honest with one another and better support ourselves and each other, it’s actually something that we can think of it as, it’s like a prize to be earned. Where you have to get through some vulnerability and hard times together and you’re still there for each other and then you can improve that relationship. That has the potential to be such a more rewarding experience than going to a club and finding someone on a base physical attraction and having a night of physical whatever.

So it’s really keeping perspective because again, this one maybe more than any other topic that we’re going over in this class, I think has such potential to cause disconnection because of what we make it mean when it’s not just up and running from day one.

Jody: It’s not like, again, in the movies, Tom Cruise, thanks. This is all Tom Cruise’s fault.

Natalie: So much is Tom Cruise’s fault.

Jody: I love Tom Cruise, for the record, but we’re going to give him the blame.

Natalie: One other thing too I want to say about this is we also go into this idea of attraction and where attraction really comes, physical attraction, what actually causes physical attraction is we have this idea of I feel safe and secure in the relationship, then I’ll want to have sex. And that is not true. It can be true but for most people it’s not. In fact Esther Perel describes this really well. She says, “If there was a verb to describe love it would be to have. And if there was a verb to describe desire it’s to want.” It’s just out of reach or I shouldn’t want it.

So we do talk briefly also about what happens when someone’s attracted to someone outside their partnership and the realities of that can happen and it doesn’t have to mean anything about your relationship but also what to do. Knowing that can happen, what do we do next with that? Because I also want to try and spare people from that pain as well, of not knowing that and just thinking, well, maybe this is my soulmate and pursuing that. And that [crosstalk] a lot of devastation.

Jody: Yeah. And then oops, I married the wrong person. Yeah. Well, okay, that’s also fascinating. Okay, the last one is connection. How is this different from intimacy?

Natalie: Yeah. So it’s similar but along with connection, I’m including a class on that because again, when couples come to me for a consultation when they’re really struggling, those are the two things they mention most. That we’re really struggling with our communication and we want more connection. So I think that’s kind of a catch all term that we tend to use to describe that partnership, that we feel supported. It might mean something a little bit different to each couple, but I think a lot of us can resonate with that term.

Connection feels like we are functioning as a team and we like that partnership. So this is just talking about things are going to come up in life, unexpected situations we think or we hope that we’re going to align on when we want to have kids and how many kids to have. And then how to parent those kids or all those different things. But we are going to run into situations that are going to feel disconnecting. So how do we use any situation that comes up in life to actually grow closer together and increase that connection on the other side.

Jody: Yeah. And this is a tricky one. I’m finding that right now in my marriage, I’ll just get really vulnerable right now. Sorry, Jake. But that Jake and I we work together in the business, in the thick of raising our four kids and just managing life. And so we are together a lot and we’re making a lot of decisions and we’re talking a lot and we see each other a lot. And yet that doesn’t necessarily mean that either of us feels connected.

And I’m having to really think through, wait a second, because neither of us wants our marriage to just be a transactional, who’s going to pick up the kids and do you need anything at the grocery store. I mean that’s a part of it. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. But I’m like, “We have to make intentional effort.” We’ve been married what? 18 years now. But to have fun together. And that’s actually hard for us to do right now. And I think it’s because we are together so much that we sort of just relied on, yeah, we’re connected.

Natalie: But I love that you’re bringing that up because I think everything you said is true. And we have to be careful about how we interpret that because a lot of times people will say, “But we’re supposed to be having date night every week and we just haven’t been.” Well, there’s a reason you haven’t and date night every night works for some couples. And people love to tell that as the 11th commandment, wait 10 commandments, 11th commandment, but it’s not true.

Jody: The 14th article of faith.

Natalie: Yeah. But guess what, that isn’t the best thing for connection for all couples. So it’s recognizing, first of all, there probably is a lot more connection between you and Jake right now than you had realized.

Jody: Than what I’m telling myself, that’s probably true.

Natalie: Yes. But also if you’re recognizing that you want to have more fun together, you’re wanting more connection, great, perfect, how do we solve that from a non-shaming place and not saying, “We haven’t been putting in effort.” But even, this is where the love languages come in, people have to bring that up. But my love language is quality time. So I need more quality time. I’m like, “Yes, I’m all for that, but theirs isn’t, they like gifts. So who should we go with?

And I don’t like that idea of, well, we’re supposed to be being selfish, so whoever’s quickest to say no, “We don’t have to spend time together.” We do, [inaudible]. I’m like, “No, we can’t try to attack it at that level.” But all of that is still really good information to us to know about ourselves. It is good for me to know that quality time is really important for me and I have to allow for maybe my husband’s different in this way. Now, how do I get that need fulfilled, maybe in different ways than I thought? So how do I support myself and him?

Jody: Yeah, it’s complicated, that’s why coaching helps.

Natalie: And having some understanding going into it.

Jody: Too much, yeah. It’s so good. Okay, so I want to end by asking you this question unless you have any other, feel free to add anything after this. But I think especially in the LDS church for anybody who might be LDS or probably in a lot of other, anyone who’s religious or even spiritual, there is this, am I marrying the right person or what if I marry the wrong person? I don’t even know if God’s telling me yes or no. We put so much pressure on marrying the right person. What are your thoughts about that?

Natalie: I think pressure doesn’t usually lead to better outcomes or even better action on our part, it really doesn’t. So I do like the idea that we want to be thoughtful in our approach for sure. We want to take time, do our due diligence, make sure that we’re feeling okay about making this decision. Beyond that, we can’t know what we don’t know. And thinking we should have is problematic. And if we want to go to the extreme on that, I’ve coached many people that have said, “You know what, I felt like I had an answer that was, no, I shouldn’t marry this person and I married them.”

I always feel so bad for those people because they’ve caused themselves so much suffering in the sense that I can’t go to God because I didn’t listen or there’s something wrong with me. I’m like, “Okay, but if we’re coming from a faith based perspective that God knows perfectly how to speak to you in a way that He knows exactly what choice you’re going to make. That means you were given this message and you made the choice He knew you were going to make.” So if that’s true and He’s loving and not this punitive God, then what does that mean?

Maybe that gives you permission to feel like it’s okay to leave now and I needed to go through that to learn some hard lessons or whatever. So anyway, that’s a tangent. But just this idea, I think to go into it also afraid of what if I got it wrong, then what? That when we have some tools and things we can now, okay, as long as our objective isn’t, the way we’re defining whether or not we made the right choice or not isn’t based on are we going to struggle or not, then we don’t have to be afraid of anything.

If you, regardless of anything that happens, if you want to stay, you can stay. And regardless of anything that happens if it feels right for you to leave, you can leave. And I think it’s super important to teach that.

Jody: I like that. And I’m not trying to put you on the spot and there’s no right or wrong answer to this, I’m just curious, your thoughts. Is there, I know you don’t think there’s one right person for everyone to marry, but are there a handful of right people or are there wrong people for us to marry? What do you think about that?

Natalie: I don’t think we can know that. And so my brain just likes to focus on things of if I can’t know this then there’s no point in spending a lot of time thinking that. Where if somebody’s saying that to me, a client and they’re saying, “But I’m just wondering if I married the wrong person.” Okay, what benefit would it be for you to know that, if you were told, “Yes, you did marry the wrong person”, what does that give you permission for? Or if your answer was you married the wrong person, what does that give you permission for?

That’s really what we’re trying to figure out when we’re asking those questions.

Jody: That’s so interesting.

Natalie: So I’m just trying to figure out what are they trying to make a case for and why are they telling themselves they shouldn’t? And that always comes back to some man-made constructed idea of how things should go.

Jody: Or even when you’re engaged. It’s interesting, what I hear you saying is the answer’s kind of irrelevant. It’s what’s beyond the answer and you’re allowed to believe any of those things that you want to believe or take any of those actions or steps that you want to take.

Natalie: And it’s all about the fruits of our decisions. So what answer for you gives you permission to keep moving forward and trust that there’s always hope. That’s what we’re trying to get to. So that’s all we need to know.

Jody: Yeah. I just find it brings me a lot of peace to know, and this is just the way I choose to think about it is there isn’t a right or wrong person for me to marry. There are people that would probably be harder for me to be married to and people that it’ll be easier for me to be married to. But in the end it’s going to be hard and great probably either way unless I just randomly picked a name out of a hat. There’s going to be pros and cons. And then like you said, so what does that mean? That means, what do I want to do now?

Natalie: Well, and to prove that point, I mean there’s all these studies that show that arranged marriages, people not only tend to stay married longer which we could argue it’s because they don’t feel there’s as many options and things. But also their level of happiness tends to rate higher than people who are in a marriage where you choose your partner.

Jody: Arranged marriages you said?

Natalie: Yes.

Jody: That’s fascinating.

Natalie: [Crosstalk] happiness.

Jody: That’s so fascinating. I wonder if there’s anything, we sometimes trust other people’s judgment more than our own. I don’t know, again, if this has anything to do with it. But we second guess our own self, did I marry the wrong person? But if that’s either just not an option or you trust that somebody else probably, your parents made a good decision for you then it takes that piece out of it. And like you said, you just become more solution focused.

Natalie: I think that has to play into it. Also even just speaking from, I just recently read a study about women in the 1950s rated so much happier than women today. And what the connection they’re making is just simply having every choice available to you to be whatever you want and do whatever you want, become whoever you want, seems so great. It can be really constraining because, I’m not saying we should go back in time on any of that.

But even looking at marriage 100 years ago, people got married for much more practical reasons that you needed a partner to survive. But when that’s the case, your expectation going into it is very different. You don’t think that you’re with someone who’s going to complete you or who’s going to help you feel good about yourself all the time and feel loved or self-actualized essentially is where we’re at with that. And now our expectations that we place on this relationship are so high and we live so long that it’s no wonder we’re struggling.

Jody: Wow. Alright, well, how do we take the marriage prep course?

Natalie: There’s a couple of ways you can find it.

Jody: And when is it? Give us all the details.

Natalie: Yes. So it begins on June 1st, which is a Thursday. So all six classes are six consecutive Thursdays beginning June 1st. They’re in the evening. It’s all over Zoom. So you can be anywhere in the world to take this. You can come live, which I highly recommend just so you can interact, but it will also be recorded. So if one of you or both of you can’t come, you’ll have these recordings forever that you can refer back to even down the road. I think that’s helpful.

So when you were mentioning getting this for a wedding gift for someone. Maybe they don’t have a lot of time right now to watch it or they’re thinking, but we’ve got a perfect relationship. It might be a nice thing to have in your toolbox for down the road if you are struggling as a resource to be able to fall back on. So yeah, so that’s Thursday evenings, it starts at 6:00pm Pacific, 7:00 Mountain, 8:00 Central and 9:00 Eastern.

Jody: Good adding one. I always get the time zones wrong.

Natalie: [Crosstalk], but it starts on Thursdays. You can find it through my website natalieclay.com. There’s some options for marriage prep in the main navigation. Also if you’re on Instagram, if you go to my bio, I have a link there. There’s links to everything, my podcast, the Engaged Couples course. I also have Marriage Lab that I just have to mention briefly for anyone listening to this who feels like, man, I wish I’d had this or I need these. Can I come to this if I’m married?

I really am trying to keep these spots reserved for engaged couples. I’m not going to kick anyone out that signs up, but we’re not going to be using the time to talk through some of the more intense marital struggles that can come up. Because I do like to keep this much more lighthearted and much more focused on…

Jody: We don’t want to poison their minds with our negativity yet. We want them to stay optimistic and excited.

Natalie: Yes, but if you are feeling like, wow, I could have used these tools and I am already married, the alternative for you that I would highly recommend is Marriage Lab, that’s where we go over these same topics. And we just discuss it through the frame of already being married.

Jody: Love it. And they can learn about that at your website too, which is what, Natalie Clay Coaching?

Natalie: No, just natalieclay.com.

Jody: Natalieclay.com, sorry. Instagram is Natalie Clay Coaching, yeah?

Natalie: Yes, that’s correct, yes, also through my Instagram they can find that too.

Jody: Okay, alright, awesome.

Natalie: Thanks, Jody.

Jody: So much good stuff here that Natalie does. I always learn something new when I talk to her because you’re constantly reading from all the experts and Natalie’s obsessed with this stuff. She soaks it up.

Natalie: I do, I find it so fascinating because you learn so much about yourself through this relationship, it brings up all our stuff. I always say, man and marriage, you’re going to struggle or you’re going to learn, there’s not a ton of in between. But don’t be scared, it’s also fantastic.

Jody: Also amazing, we highly recommend it.

Natalie: With tools, we don’t have to cause ourselves the depths of pain that we…

Jody: Well, it really isn’t and there’s a handful of things in life that are like that. I think building a business is like that. You’re either going to struggle or you’re going to grow. And working on your fitness for many of us is like that. And being a parent is like that and marriage is one of those, that it’s like, no, we’re not saying don’t do it, totally do it. But you’re going to grow through it or you’re going to struggle and some of both.

Natalie: Some of both, you’re going to struggle but you might as well get some growth beyond the struggle instead of just struggle and then struggle harder.

Jody: And it’s the good kind of struggle. It’s the kind of struggle that makes you more yourself and more compassionate and it’s worth it because of what is available as you work through it.

Natalie: Yes, I do have to say on speaking to that point is when you think about when we’re children growing up, we have parents ahead of us who are telling us, “Sorry, I know you want to stay up but you can’t.” They’re enforcing that struggle on us that leads to our benefit. You have to do your homework. You have to work hard. You have to learn to stick with something. You have to learn to work hard. All these things that it’s not human nature to want to push ourselves on.

So that’s where I think marriage really provides us that same incentive from a different vantage point, just on our own we’re not inclined to grow in all these areas. That’s not human nature to put ourselves up to suffering. But we have this incentive when we’re married to instantly put that incentive of if we want to have a good relationship and a good partnership and then also once we have kids and everything that brings along with it. Then that incentive is us to keep trying and to grow beyond some of our own individual weaknesses that we’re struggling with that cause us some of the troubles that we’re encountering.

So as long as we’re not taking it from a shame based perspective, which is I shouldn’t be this way. I am selfish here and I should only be this selfish instead of this selfish or whatever it is. And there’s really so much that we can learn and grow and that really is like you said, really rewarding.

Jody: So good. Alright, thanks for joining me, Natalie.

Natalie: Thanks, Jody, thanks for having me on.

Jody: Alright, talk to you soon.

Natalie: Okay, bye.

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I receive questions on the topic of investing in your business often, and I understand why. I had so many questions about this throughout my own business journey too. Your questions will likely vary depending on where you might be, but I’m addressing them all as they relate to different stages of business growth.

Whether you don’t currently have the funds to invest in your business, or you’re wondering where the best place to invest is, listen in. Your business is like a baby that requires so much investment, and if you do, it’ll pay you back in ways you can’t even begin to imagine.

Tune in this week to hear my top recommendations for where to invest your time and money. I’m sharing one of the most common mistakes I see when people are in the midst of growing their businesses, and my favorite ideas for helping, serving, and giving, even if you don’t have the funds right now.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* One of the most common mistakes I see in people who are growing their businesses. * What you can do if you don’t have extra funds to invest in your business. * The number one place I would invest in my business. * Some ways you can help and serve at zero cost. * The importance of keeping your mindset in the right place.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Brooke Castillo * Claire Pelletreau

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Investing in Your Business.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hey, everybody, welcome to our Monday entrepreneurial business episode. By the way, for all of my friends who are building coaching practices or other service based businesses or some kind of online marketing business that in any way resembles the business that I have. Then stay tuned because my team and I are putting together some really amazing things that we’re going to be offering throughout the summer.

So make sure that you are paying attention to the emails that we send out. That’s where we normally announce things like this, opportunities to either get some free or really inexpensive help on your business are going to be coming up. So if you’ve taken my free training then you’ll be getting our emails, if you haven’t, you should for sure just start with that. And that will add you to our email list.

But you know how email is these days. You might have to go to your junk mail folder and find us and dig us out or try to whitelist us and tell your email service provider, you want to hear from us because I don’t want you to miss those opportunities. So the free training by the way, if you haven’t taken it, you can go to jodysfreetraining.com. It’s quick. It’s really powerful. I just had somebody again message me saying how insightful it was for them. And it will get you up and running as you wait for the other offers.

Okay, I want to talk to you today about investing in your business. Are you ready? I get questions about this topic a lot and I understand why. I had a lot of questions about this in the beginning too. And so depending on where you are in your business, your questions might vary, but some of the ones I want to address today will be things like, what if I don’t have money, I don’t have extra funds to invest in my business. How do I grow it? Do I have to invest?

Maybe you do have a little bit of money or you’re willing to come up with some money which we’ll talk about in a minute. How do I know where to invest it? Where is the best place to invest it? Is it okay to invest it in this area or that area or the other? What are the smart ways? Where is the best place to invest it? For those of you that are growing, maybe you’re starting to add a team or you feel like maybe it’s time to. How do I know when it’s time to hire someone? And how does that all work? Should I be hiring people or should I just be figuring this out on my own?

So we’re going to address those types of questions and any others that come to my mind as I’m talking about this today. But I will say that one of the most common mistakes I see people make as they’re building their businesses or growing their businesses is taking for granted how much your business needs from you, especially in the beginning. So I like to think about my business the way I think about my kids. I love my kids and they drive me a little nuts sometimes, each of them in various ways. And I love my business and it drives me a little nuts sometimes in its own way.

And what I mean by that though is that also just like my kids when they were babies needed a lot from me, they literally couldn’t even hold their own heads up when they’re first born. They rely on us for everything. And as they grow up they become more independent and they can do more on their own. And they can even help out a little bit around the house, maybe, some of them, if you are the kind of mom who gets them to help, which I’m not very good at that, but at any rate they could. They do, I’m just kidding.

Just last night we ate dinner and then my son was like, “I’ll do the dishes”, my 16 year old and he just jumped up and volunteered, what an angel. At any rate they can start to contribute. And one day I expect that I will be very old and feeble and unable to take care of myself and they’ll probably take care of me or at least hopefully make sure there’s somebody to take care of me, if necessary, that’s possible anyway.

A business is the same way except that it happens a lot faster and it’s a lot more fun, because the point at which your business starts taking care of you more than you have to take your of it is a fun stage. It’s not because you’re old and feeble and unable to do it on your own. It’s just that that business suddenly outgrows you in terms of its capacity to provide for you. But in the beginning it can’t do that. It’s a baby, it needs you to take care of it and to really nurture it and take good care of it and be gentle with it. Don’t be so harsh and judgmental.

My teacher, Brooke Castillo, one time years ago at a live event was using a similar analogy to this. And she’s like, “Some of you have a baby business. And you’re just like, “Where is my money, baby? Give me my money. How come you’re not making me any money yet?”” It was so funny. But any rate, that’s how we sometimes think of it. And I know, like I said, it doesn’t have to take a long time. It can go fast, much faster than raising kids but it is going to take some time. And the amount of care that it needs in the beginning, I think most entrepreneurs highly underestimate.

Now, if you’re thinking, oh, great, that’s bad news because I don’t have money to invest in my business. Don’t worry, I’ve got you. I’m going to talk about that next. What if you don’t have money to invest? Alright, first of all, those of you that are in Business Minded with me know that I am a big believer that you can invest money or you can invest time or you can invest what most of us do which is probably some of both. But if you’re literally like I don’t have a dime to invest in this business, that’s alright. We’re just going to plan on investing time instead.

Time can mean literal time and effort that you’re going to put into doing things that you otherwise could pay somebody else to do. For example, if I don’t have money to hire someone to build me a website and I decide I want or need a website, my business needs a website then I can build my own website. We live in a pretty amazing age. You don’t have to be a tech genius. I built my first website and I am not super techie. There are pretty amazing tools out there and sort of pre-designed websites. You can even have a really nice looking website without spending money really.

But you’re going to then have to spend time. You are going to have to figure out how the technology works even though it’s pretty awesome. It still requires some figuring out. And for me it’s still a lot of hair pulling. And it’s going to take you a lot longer to figure out than somebody who’s a professional website developer or designer. So time is time that you put in and overall time it will take to achieve your goal, will take longer if you don’t have money to invest and that’s okay. We don’t need to be in a rush about it.

When I first started my business I had a set amount of money that I was willing to invest and I wasn’t willing to invest more. And I knew that meant it would take longer to achieve my goals but that’s okay. I didn’t look around at people around me and compare myself and feel bad that I was behind because I don’t know what their situation is. Maybe they had more money to invest or maybe they’re just better at it than me. I don’t know. All I know is I’m doing this the slow way because I want to do it in an affordable way.

I didn’t want to go into debt. I wasn’t willing to put it on credit cards. I didn’t want to borrow money or any of that. I wanted to just be able to pay for it. And I still run my business that way. I still just pay for everything cash. It will take longer but I’m okay with that because I didn’t want to go into debt for it. So invest time if you don’t have money. Now, here’s the other thing I want you to think about if you’re just in this first starting out phase. How can you make a little bit of money to be able to put into your business? What are the ways?

There are so many ways now to make money, you guys. If I were just starting out and I didn’t have any money because I didn’t want to siphon anything off of the family budget or maybe there’s nothing there to siphon off. Maybe everything’s really tight. Okay, that’s fine. You know what I would do. I would go get a job at Wendy’s on the weekends or some other restaurant. Maybe I could wait tables somewhere. Maybe I could ask around the people in the ward, is anybody looking for part-time help in some way, maybe the school district has a position for somebody part-time.

I would go take a job. I literally am not afraid to go work at McDonald’s. And I would tell myself, this money is to support my business. I would be willing to do that. I don’t know why so many people are not willing to. I know a lot of us block ourselves with, I can’t, I don’t have time. I’ve got these kids at home, that won’t work. I get that. Those obstacles are real. But I promise, there is an option that would work where you can find solutions to all of those obstacles. I wonder what that might be.

But the other thing is I would know that that was a very short term temporary situation because I have a baby business that I really need to take care of. But I’m going to grow that business pretty fast. And a lot of people again, expect their baby business to start doing the dishes. And meaning supporting them with revenue. And I just don’t recommend that. I recommend in the beginning that you consider that any revenue your business brings in goes back into the business.

So this is how I ran my business for the first year at least, I want to say maybe a little longer, but I can confidently say the first year. I decided that I was not trying to make revenue off my business that I was going to go spend or support my family with or pay my bills with. I was only trying to make money that I could invest back into the business. So I charged, for my very first offer I had a six session coaching package. Some of you listening were those clients. I love you. That was so fun. Those were the good old days.

And I charged this most random number. I don’t know where I came up with it, but I charged $624 for six sessions of coaching. Over time that price went up, but that’s what I charged in the beginning. And every time I got a client which took a long time in the beginning, by the way, those clients were few and far between. But when I got $624 I went, “Yay, I have $624 now to invest back in my business.” I did not take profit from that business, now, at some point you’ll need to.

For tax situations you’ll need to check with your accountant once you start making over a certain amount and depending on what your tax classification is and things. You may have to start giving yourself a salary off of that. But in the beginning when you’re not making much money you don’t have to. So that’s what I recommend in the beginning.

Now, again here’s another common thing I hear. I was willing in the beginning to invest money in marketing. I felt and I still believe that is the best use of your money, invest in getting your message out to more people, in broadening your exposure. That might just mean more people know about you. That’s a good thing. Ideally it will be lead generation where you’re getting a name and email address that you can then talk to that person again. That is a really good use of your money.

But again what I hear over and over again is people say, I put this money into whatever marketing channel you choose, let’s say Facebook Ads, Instagram Ads. And I’ve gotten some leads off of it, but I haven’t gotten any paying clients. I haven’t made any money off of that. Well, slow down, tiger it’s going to take some time. But if you have people raising their hand saying, “Yeah, I want to hear about what you’re talking about, I’m interested.” And you have their name and email, they want to hear from you again. That is valuable.

That is in fact one of the ways that they assess the worth of a business is how big is their lead list, how many contacts do they have, how many customers that are paying or just potential customers. So I never told myself, “This isn’t working because I’m not making money.” I went, “This is working. I’m getting people to sign up for my stuff and people are listening and clicking and opting in.” great. Now I have to figure out how to make them an offer that they can’t refuse. That’s on me. That’s not on the Facebook Ads job.

So just be careful about the way you define, is this working or not. Here’s the other thing I was going to say is a lot of people will say, “Well, okay, I did, I got a client off of it but it cost me $624 to get that client.” And I say, “That’s success then because you basically got that client for free because they paid you $624. It cost $624. That’s a win.” Now, from there, we’re not going to stay there forever. We couldn’t operate at that profit margin in the long run, it wouldn’t make sense.

But in the beginning it’s just like having a baby and going, “I have this baby but he never helps set the table or unloads the dishwasher. I thought he was going to be more helpful than this.” Yeah, he might one day but not today, not yet. You’ve got to put in some work. You’ve got to teach him. You’ve got to raise that baby business. Okay, so marketing is a great place to invest. And again if you don’t have money to invest, you’re going to invest time, great, invest time. But don’t, again, underestimate how much time is necessary.

If I were just starting out, I’ll tell you, when I started out was in the days of blogging, podcasts were just barely coming on the scene, I mean they’d been around but they weren’t as mainstream as they are today. And Facebook was pretty popular but Instagram was not, again nearly as widespread as it is today. So if I were starting today I would begin with Instagram just because that’s what I know well. And I think that a lot of my potential clients and customers are on there.

And I would start posting great content and I would, again, if I were going to invest time instead of money, instead of running ads then I would start creating content that I think would be really applicable and relevant to other people’s audiences who have big followings and I would send it to them and try to get them to share it. And as I started gaining followers I would encourage people all the time to engage with my post, to share it. As I started gaining followers I would start DMing them every day.

I would send them audio messages. I might send them video messages offering to help. I would reach out to anybody who showed interest in what I was doing through social media, which you can do a lot organically. And I would offer help. I would ask them questions about what they’re struggling with. I would invite them to learn more. I would help them right there in their DMs. I would just start serving and helping and giving as much as I could and social media’s a great way to do it at zero cost.

But many of you are like, “Well, I’m posting on Instagram.” Okay, that’s not enough. That’s what my kids do too. Or they’re not really on Instagram that much but that’s what a lot of teenagers are posting on Instagram every day too. And they also don’t have businesses that are generating revenue. You’re going to have to do way more than that. I would be in the DMs of influencers who I thought I could serve. I would be thinking about and strategizing about and trying to create offers that would serve people who already have a following.

How could I make their life easier? How could I add to what they’re doing? Not just so I can get exposure, but literally how could I help them? And helping them would be good for me in the end, I know it would. And I would think through that strategically but my main focus would be trying to get the attention of people that I could help and helping them for free. And I would spend a lot of time doing that if time investment was my strategy. You’ve got time, go put it into marketing efforts. Do you see what I’m saying?

And then I would also know that this is a long term play. It’s going to take time to pay off. It’s going to take time for me to get through to people. It’s going to take time to gain the following. Alright, be patient. You’re not investing a lot of money, you’re investing time. That’s okay, that’s a great strategy. So marketing is the number one place I would invest in my business.

The other place that I both did and continue to invest and recommend for other people to invest is in childcare. If you have kids at home, small kids who require a lot of attention, it is very challenging to stay focused and get that flow of ideas and everything that you need when you’re constantly being interrupted by somebody wanting chocolate milk or needing their diaper changed or a fight or whatever. And again, it doesn’t have to be a lot of childcare but a little bit of focused time if necessary could go a really long way.

So, again when I started my business I had just had my third, he was about six months old when I went through coach training. And then a year and a half later I had my fourth. So I had little kids. I still have, my youngest is seven now. And my older of the two littles is nine. So I still have fairly young kids in addition to my teenagers. Now, the good news is I have teenagers and my husband works in the business with me and so I have a lot of help. But I’m not afraid to pay for extra help if necessary.

And more importantly, when I was first starting out and I didn’t have a lot of money, I figured out how, am I going to get a little bit of focused work time each week. And I gave myself three days a week. I think I had a few hours each of those three days when I had somebody watching my kids who I paid. So I’m not trying to tell you how it should look. I’m just giving you an idea of what I did. Now, that wasn’t all that I worked.

I did do some other work when I was with my kids but I gave myself a little bit of focus time and I planned really well, what do I need to get done during that focus time. Where am I going to go? I don’t know if you heard me tell this story before, but I didn’t have an office. I had a little desk in the corner of my bedroom which my kids would feel free to barge in on at any time. So I had someone come over to watch my kids and then I left my house and I went to the mall in Roseville.

If you live in Roseville, California, I would sit on the couches outside the Apple store where they had the best internet and I would work on my computer. And if I had a coaching call or a consultation or something I would go out to my car and take it. This was before Zoom by the way. We did everything on the phone back in olden days, and so this worked for me. I would take my call in the car, sometimes it was very hot. But I just did what I had to do.

I recorded my podcast in the car in the parking garage. I would drive to the top floor of the parking structure hoping that cars wouldn’t drive by and they still did a little bit but not that much. And I could edit that out somewhat. But I just brought my giant microphone with me in the car, plugged it into my laptop and recorded a podcast. You guys, I had a baby business. It wasn’t able to help me take the garbage out, so I just did it. And now my business takes very good care of me. It is paying me back in tremendous ways.

I’m so glad that I was patient and didn’t make excuses for myself about not being able to do it. I invested the time. I invested the little bit of money that I had back into the business. You have to invest in your business.

Now, the last place that I recommend you invest in, you’ve got to be careful with this one. I invested and I still do and I recommend for people where you can is in your own personal development but be careful of this one. Because this is the place where we love to invest the most. This is what I see with new entrepreneurs anyway. They’re like, “I should take another class. I should read this book. I need to take a program.” And sometimes that is necessary.

Sometimes there is just, again when I decided to do Facebook Ads I remember going, “I’ve got to figure out Facebook Ads.” So I signed up for Claire Pelletreau’s Facebook Ad course. Thank you, Claire Pels. You can, I think, still get a version of it today. She is my favorite teacher of Facebook Ads. She taught me just enough to be able to get my own ads up and running. And she will do that for you too today. So I did need to invest in that course.

But there is a difference between this is the next thing my business needs and I genuinely don’t know how to do it, so I’m going to have to take a course. I’m going to go through it as quickly as I can and then I’m going to go implement it versus this is confusing and hard and scary. And I should get another certification somewhere. I should take another class. I should read this book first. You know the difference. We hide behind the work that needs to get done sometimes with this kind of passive learning.

So what I do recommend though is that you have a way to keep your head in the right space. Coaching for me was that way. I had coaching and still do to this day. Sometimes I’ve had private coaching. Sometimes I’ve had group coaching but I always have a way, a coach or multiple coaches that I can go to and say, “I can tell my head is a mess, straighten me out.” Because if you don’t keep your head in the right spot, then your efforts are going to feel hard and your business will be impacted.

So I don’t think that has to cost a lot of money. I don’t think it has to take a lot of time. And you might even be able to do it for yourself. You might be able to self-coach, but you’ve got to keep your head in the right spot and you’re probably going to need further development as your business grows. Your business can’t grow faster than you grow yourself, or if it does it looks like a mess. So that’s where I recommend you invest time and/or money in your marketing, in childcare if necessary and in keeping your head in the right spot. Sometimes some learning is necessary but don’t go overboard on that one.

You guys, I love talking about business. I’ve got a lot more to say but that’s all we have time for today. So I will catch you next Monday for another episode. I will see you then. Take care. Bye.

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Have you ever found yourself justifying your actions with reasons that others may disagree with? The reality is that there are no right or wrong reasons for doing anything – only different motivations that yield varying results.

In this week’s episode, we’re not here to judge your reasons for doing things. Instead, I want you to consider whether your motivations are truly helpful and aligned with your goals. Are they the best reasons for achieving what you want, and do you genuinely like them?

Join me as we explore how to recognize and shift unproductive motivations in your life. I’ll share common examples that illustrate how different reasons can lead to different outcomes and offer practical tips for operating from reasons that truly serve you.

Do you wonder if coaching would really help you? Is coaching something you want to try, but you question whether you’re the right fit for it? Try Out Coaching is a brand new, completely free workshop I’ve got coming up where you’ll have the opportunity to log in virtually and get your questions answered. It’s happening April 27th 2023 at 10am Pacific time, so click here to get more details!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The hidden ways your motivations may be holding you back and doing more harm than good. * Actionable tips for identifying and shifting unproductive motivations to align with your goals. * Real-life examples of how unhelpful motivations can manifest in your daily life, and how to overcome them. * The impact of different motivations on your outcomes and the power of choosing motivations that serve you. * Why changing your reasons isn’t always the solution and alternative approaches for achieving your desired results.

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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 405, Doing the Right Thing for the Wrong Reason.

Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast. I am excited to talk to you about this concept that has been really powerful for me in my life in terms of making the little tweaks that feel like they don’t really matter, but they create tremendously different results in the end. That’s what I love about coaching, we get to work in that space of fine-tuning. And it’s sort of like the concept that small hinges swing big doors. It’s easy to neglect and not pay attention to these things. And there’s nothing wrong with not doing it. It’s just that the effect can be so exponentially powerful that it’s fun to do it.

So I do want to preface by saying, using the words right and wrong is sort of an extreme and I don’t mean it to be that way. I just needed to keep the title brief and give you an idea what it was going to be about. But the truth is what we’re going to be talking about today isn’t so much, is this the right reason for doing that thing or the wrong reason. I want you to think of it more as is this useful? Is this my best reason? Do I like this reason?

And the truth is, you might have reasons that you like for doing things that I’m like, “I don’t like that reason for me.” There is actually not right or wrong reasons for doing things. There is just different reasons that will get you a different result in the end. And I’m going to talk to you about what to do if you recognize that some of your reasons aren’t your best reasons, aren’t getting you what you want ultimately. And we’ll dive into that. But the easiest way for me to teach this is to use examples like most things I teach.

I have chosen things to talk about that I think most people would agree that just on the surface these are good things to do, these are useful behaviors that I don’t know that anyone would say there was anything wrong with any of them. And in fact we might say, “That’s a really good thing to be doing. I want to be doing that in my life.” And yet, if your motivation doesn’t serve you, sometimes taking that behavior from certain motivations might actually be doing more harm than good.

Okay, so to begin with, let’s talk about being on time. I don’t know very many people that would say, “I don’t want to be on time. I want to be late to everything.” I know people that would say, “I don’t really care about being on time. I don’t think it matters that much, or I’m not good at being on time, I don’t know how to be on time.” But I don’t know anyone that would be like, “It’s wrong to be on time. It’s a bad thing to be on time.” And in fact, most people that I talk to about this topic fall in the opposite camp of being, I think what is overly strict about you have to be on time.

And it’s always fascinating to me what we make it mean when either we’re not on time or when other people aren’t on time. So much judgment happens around this one little simple topic. “I think it’s so rude”, this is what people say, “I think it’s so rude when people are not on time. It’s disrespectful. It’s dishonoring of the other person’s time. If you say you’re going to be somewhere you better be there.” I just want us to pause and consider for a minute, I like to be on time by the way. I’m a fan of being on time, but what is the reason why?

Why are you so worried about being on time? Why are you really focused on it? Why do you make that an important part of your routine? Because it doesn’t just happen automatically, something that takes focus and a little bit of effort. If your motivation is fear based, if it is about what other people will think and whether or not they will judge you, you’re going to get a different result than if your motivation is just that’s who I choose to be. And I’m even okay with you keeping the part where you are like, “I think it’s respectful. I choose to be respectful of other people by being on time.”

But I would question the part that’s if other people aren’t on time for me, they’re disrespecting me. Because that may or may not be the case. In fact in most cases my guess is people aren’t sitting around going, “I could be on time but I don’t really respect her so I don’t think I will.” What’s actually happening is something else. They weren’t paying attention at the time. They have little kids that had something come up. They’re just not great at time management in general. It’s actually not about you.

So if you have a lot of judgment of other people when they’re late then it’s going to be you being on time from a fear based place because you’re worried about other people judging you the way you judge them. And that’s going to get you a different result than if you clean that up and you decide people are late for all kinds of reasons, it’s none of my business. I choose to be on time when I can and sometimes it’s not going to happen and that’s okay. It’s just who I choose to be and people can think whatever they want.

I’m always fascinated by people saying, “I was late and then I had to walk in and sit in the front row, it was so embarrassing.” And I’m always interested like, “Tell me why that’s embarrassing.” And sometimes it’s just, “I don’t like everybody’s eyes on me. I don’t like being the center of attention.” But other times it’s, “They’re going to see that I’m late.” And I was like, “Well, yeah, but so what? What do you think? Do you think people think you’re perfect?” Because I don’t think anyone’s perfect. I don’t have any judgment of people when they’re late.

I can’t say I don’t every now and then get annoyed if I’m waiting for someone and they’re very late, but overall I’m not very judgmental of people for being late, which helps me be on time from a clean place. If and when it happens, which it does on occasion, that I’m running late, I’m not really worried about what people are thinking. And they might be judging me and I’m okay with it. So being on time, good thing to do, but what is your reason why? Are you operating from a motivation that serves you, because I think I got sidetracked.

Let me just be clear. Your result will change and what I mean by that isn’t that you won’t still be on time. You can totally be on time from a fear based place, but your overall experience will change. Your overall level of peace in your life especially around this topic, how you feel in general. And I don’t know about you but when I am not operating from a clean place then I get really snappy and mean with my family if I’m trying go somewhere with them and they’re running late. Now we’re mad at each other, we’re snapping or yelling at each other.

That’s not what I want. My favorite is when people get coaching on being on time for church and they’re like, “We just can’t be on time and then we’re all yelling at each other and we’re all mad.” And I’m like, “Why are we going to church in the first place?” To feel the spirit, to worship God. And so yelling at each other about whether or not we get there on time is the opposite of that. What if we clean that up a little and we just decide, we’re going to try to be on time and if it doesn’t happen it’s not worth getting upset over. Anyway I could tell a lot of stories about this, but that’s my first example. Let’s go to another one.

The next example I want to use, which this is probably a really obvious one that everyone can relate to, is around working on your health and your fitness, eating right, dieting, watching what you’re eating, exercising more, trying to change your habits around food or exercise. I don’t know about you, but I’ve done a lot of that from not very useful motivation in the past. I’ve done it from body loathing and self-loathing and insecurity and fear and shame and all of that energy.

And the truth is we can get some results, meaning we can change our bodies, we can get ourselves to take some action, to go to the gym, to eat better or whatever from that fear based motivation. The only problem is we don’t get the overall result that we want. What is the overall result that we want? Yes, to have healthy bodies but also to enjoy being with ourselves in our own heads, to respect ourselves more once we get to the end of a goal like that or we achieve a goal like that. Rather than like ourselves less, to be more energized, more excited about life, not defeated and frustrated and tired.

This is why a lot of people get to whatever was their fitness goal and then it’s really disappointing because if you’ve been beating yourself up to get there then you’re not going to suddenly arrive and love yourself overnight. You might do the work on your body but what are you doing to your spirit and what are you doing to your mental and emotional health? So what is the reason to get healthy? It’s complicated, this is one I’m still working on, but I would say just because we can, because we recognize the value of these bodies of ours.

I was on a girls’ trip recently and I bought a really expensive handbag, which I have never done before. I have never bought a handbag that was a lot of money just because I don’t know, I don’t really value that and it feels kind of extravagant. And it’s just not what I’ve chosen do with my money but I saw this handbag that I really liked and it was a really expensive designer handbag. And my girlfriends are like, “You should get it.” And so I did. And do you know what I’m doing with that handbag? I’m taking very good care of it.

I don’t take it to the movies and set it on the sticky floor. In fact I saved the little bag, they come with a cloth bag to store it in. And I’m making sure to not leave gum wrappers and let my kids drop Goldfish into it because I value that handbag. It’s very expensive and I love it and it’s beautiful and I want to keep it that way. That’s a good motivator for taking care of your body because you value it, because it’s amazing and beautiful and you want to be very cautious and careful with it.

Not because you’re going to impress your ex-boyfriend, not because you’re going to love yourself more, if you could just hate yourself enough first. See what I’m saying? Different motivation will get you a different result.

Here’s one I love to help people with and a lot of women especially, sometimes men but women especially struggle with this one. Service, serving others, this might be serving in your church calling. It might be just doing a favor for a neighbor or helping out at the school, volunteering some place, agreeing to help someone in some way that they ask. Taking care of the family etc. even just being a mom, raising kids. Service, what is your motivation? This is a tough one.

If you are motivated by people pleasing energy you will get a different result than if you are motivated by something more useful like this is who I want to be, I want to give back in this way. I think I could help here and I like helping, pick me. Now, I don’t know anyone that’s perfect at serving from that place. Don’t beat yourself up, but if you’ve got a lot of people pleasing energy happening you’re going to get a different result. You know what I mean by that?

The person that you’re serving or the people in general that you’re serving might like it just as much when you do it from a people pleasing energy. They might not know the difference but your result will be different. What you get out of that service will change based on your motivation. In the LDS church we talk about or we read in the scriptures I should say that the Lord wants a willing heart and that we receive blessings when we do it with a willing heart. And I don’t think that’s because the Lord is sitting back going, “Oh, well, your heart wasn’t in the right place so I’m not going to bless you.”

I don’t think that’s what it means at all. I think what it means is that you will not get the same experience, the same transformation, the same feelings of confidence and being proud of yourself and grateful to yourself. And that expansive abundant feeling that’s possible when we serve is not as likely if we’re doing it from resentment. Instead we just build more resentment when we do it from resentment or from people pleasing. And by people pleasing I just mean trying to manipulate what other people think of us, afraid of people judging us if we don’t do it, all of that kind of nonsense.

So service, not a bad thing to do, nothing wrong with serving from resentment. It’s just not going to get you the same result as if you serve from something more useful like desire.

How about planning? Where are my planners at? I love someone who’s really good at planning because I’ve gotten pretty good at it but it’s not my natural default state. I would much rather be organic and messy and figure things out as I go. So planning is a great thing, nothing wrong with planning. In fact the more detailed you can plan oftentimes the better. But what is your reason why? When I see planners operating from a fear based motivator, I get nervous for them.

I’ll tell you what that fear based motivator normally is for a planner is a desire to try to control and predict outcomes. Can anyone relate to this? I can even relate to this, even as a non-planner. If you are trying to control the world outside of you through planning, brace yourself because what happens to plans? They often don’t work out or they have to get changed or they just don’t even turn out the way we thought that they would. So I love a planner.

I want you to keep planning. I just want you to do it with also the motivation of I am doing this because I want to be prepared and I want to make decisions ahead of time and I want to accomplish more in my life, but I am able to be flexible and change the plan if necessary. Let’s just see what happens. Do you see what I’m saying? Have a plan, but keep your motivator like this is a useful skill that as humans we have and other animals don’t. But the plan might go out the window because I don’t control the world even if I have a great plan.

I’ve got this amazing team. I love my team. My husband and I were just saying how we wish they lived near us so we could hang out with them more often. But at any rate, I’ve got some great planners on my team and sometimes they will start planning things for the whole year and which I love. And then I always say, “Don’t forget it might all change.” They’re really good, they’re like, “We know.” Not because I’m just going to change my mind on a whim usually, occasionally I do that.

But mostly it’s, “Okay, this thing didn’t pan out the way we thought it would or this thing is actually taking off that we weren’t expecting. So now we’re going to go ahead and change the plan and you’ve got to be flexible in your planning. How about hard work? Nothing wrong with working hard. This is what people tell me when they are often entrepreneurs or maybe you have a job somewhere and you’re like, “I’m working so hard. I’m putting in all these extra hours. I’m putting in all this effort.”

And I say, “Okay, nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with a little hard work, but why? Why are you doing it? What is your reason why?” If you’re doing it because you’re pretty sure that once you achieve something then you’ll be able to be proud of yourself or believe that you’re legitimate, then we might have some work to do. Or if you’re doing it because you’re just sure that if you don’t your company won’t value you and you might get fired, then I don’t know, let’s examine that. Those are scarcity fear based reasons. Do you see what I’m saying?

So what do we want to do instead? I’m all for a little bit of hustle and hard work sometimes. I’m even for working harder or longer hours from time to time than I normally would, but only if I like my reason. Only if I’m doing it for, you know what would be cool, let’s see if I could do this thing and I know that it’s going to be temporary. What you don’t want to do and I see entrepreneurs do this over and over again. They hustle and grind their way into a business that’s successful, but only if they keep hustling and grinding and now they’re stuck.

Because if they stop the hustle and grind the business can’t sustain itself. You don’t want to create that kind of a situation in your life or yes, if you are putting in long hours and over-delivering for your boss then that’s what he or she probably expects. And now we’ve got to go back and say, “You know what, I actually can’t do that forever. I don’t want to do that forever.” And we have to re-establish things. So I’m all for extra hard work at times. And I’m all for working hard all the time within the parameters that you set up, but what’s the reason why?

Ideally it would be because it’s fun to see what you’re capable of, because it’s fun to push yourself sometimes and see what you could achieve, but that fun energy is going to get you a different result, meaning a different experience than that hustle, grind, stress, in a hurry to get somewhere so that we can feel good energy. This can be true too for whatever your ‘work’ is. I sometimes coach people who say, “I just never let myself sit down and rest. I’m constantly doing another project or cleaning up the house or there’s always something more to do and I never let myself rest.”

I mean on the surface you get a lot done, you’re a go getter, that’s not a bad thing. But if your reason is that you’re just not disciplined, that you have placed your value in how much of your to-do list you get checked off, that’s not going to probably create the life that you want. The life that you want is going to be filled with sometimes working really hard and sometimes learning to relax and be. Can you just be in your life? What is that like if you just choose to be and you’re not doing?

It’s really fascinating how uncomfortable that is for so many adults. So you just want to check your reason. Now, I’ve given you a whole bunch of examples and I hope I have illustrated the point here. But you might be wondering, okay so I’m pretty sure I have some reasons that I don’t like for doing a lot of these things or maybe you have other things that I didn’t discuss. What do I do about that Jody?

Here’s the thing. You’ve got to come and discuss it with me. We’ve got to take a look at the nuances. It’s not as simple as just change your reason. In some cases the way I coach a client is you need to stop doing that thing altogether for a little while until we can clean up your head. Don’t do it at all unless you can have fun doing it, unless you can do it from a useful motivation, a useful energy. I would never tell somebody that. We would just explore options. Or in other cases we can change your motivation, we can clean it up. But it’s not as simple as me just telling you, “Do it for this reason.”

We’ve got to take a look at your current reason. We’ve got to take a look at what you’re believing. We’ve got to really be tender with it in most cases. Sometimes you can just hear a new reason and latch on to it, that’s great. But in a lot of cases it requires a more fine-tuned approach. And that’s what we do in coaching. So if you are not registered for Tryout Coaching you’ve got to get registered because it’s right around the corner and the price is free. We will be sending out a replay if you can’t come live, but you’ve got to be registered to get the replay.

So head on over to jodymoore.com/trial. And I’d love to help you with this. Thanks for joining me today for Better Than Happy. And before I let you go I want to ask you a favor. If you like this podcast would you please do me a favor and make sure that you’re subscribed to it in whatever podcast app you like to use. If you don’t know how to subscribe, ask someone in your life, they’ll probably know but it’s usually in the upper righthand corner, there’s a little plus arrow or something that you can click on.

And the reason why is because that really helps the podcast to do better, to perform better and to be found by more people. And the other thing that really helps it is when you share it. So thank you in advance because there are so many of you who are so amazing about sharing the podcast. If you share it on social, make sure you tag me so I can do a re-post. And my favorite thing is when you make a quick video and you explain what the takeaway was or what insight you had as you were listening. That really helps me know what’s landing for future episodes.

So thank you in advance for your help. I love you. I will see you next time. Bye bye.

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Welcome to Entre-Talk, where we explore the exciting world of entrepreneurship every Monday. Do you struggle with coming up with new ideas for your business or marketing plan? As a seasoned entrepreneur and creative thinker, I’ve discovered that ideas are abundant – it’s all about tapping into them and recognizing them when they come your way.

But how can you become more open to receiving these ideas? That’s where our discussion for this week comes in. By expressing yourself in the right way, you can attract the perfect ideas that fit seamlessly into your business and life. It’s a skill that can be honed and practiced over time, and I’m here to guide you through the process.

Join me this week as we delve deeper into the world of ideas. Discover how to identify the ideas that are right for you and learn my personal tips for staying open to new opportunities. Don’t let the best ideas slip through your fingers – tune in now to learn more.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* How to think of ideas as something to partner with. * Why you don’t have to worry about running out of ideas. * Methods of keeping yourself open to ideas. * Why it’s okay that your ideas are not “brand new.”

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert * My daughter’s Instagram: @macymooart

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Ideas.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hey there, friends, welcome to an entrepreneurial focused podcast episode. What am I trying to say? I don’t know. Entre-Talk, we talk about all things entrepreneurial and of course there’s a lot of overlap between these Monday episodes and the Friday episodes that are a little bit more general life coaching type topics. So I would encourage you to be listening to both if you own a business. And I know a lot of you who don’t own businesses enjoy these Monday episodes as well. I try to keep them really brief.

Sometimes we go really strategic about business. Sometimes they’re a little bit more mindset based, but building a business has been one of my favorite ways to apply all the tools I teach as a coach. And so we are doing these Monday episodes to just get your week off on the right foot, give you a little pep talk, give you a little motivation to get you up and running on a Monday morning. So, thanks for joining me here.

Toda, I want to talk about ideas. If you own a business you are going to need ideas always. There’s never going to be a time when you don’t need ideas. And this is true for a lot of different kinds of businesses, but especially those of you that are coaches or have some sort of similar business model to mine where you are providing a service in the personal development or health development space.

So ideas are necessary not only within your business to help your clients or customers, but ideas are necessary in order to do the marketing and selling and serving that happens even before you have a paying client or customer. So this podcast for example, is one way that I help people better understand what I do and I do some marketing which I define thanks to my teacher, Brooke Castillo as just giving people results ahead of time, providing people with some value and results before they’ve ever even paid you a dime is marketing.

And so that is what I do with this podcast. Not only do they not pay me but I actually pay to have it produced and edited and I pay for whatever technology is necessary for me to do it. I don’t run any ads or have any sponsors on this podcast because I am a sponsor. My coaching practice is what I’m advertising. That is the thing that I want people to go and check out and if it’s a right fit, to purchase. I don’t want them to go buy other people’s stuff. I want them to buy my stuff. That is the reason I do this.

I’m not trying to be a podcaster as a business model. I’m trying to give people a taste of what it’s like to work with me as a coach. And I’m so delighted that so many people get so much help even though they never sign up for any of my programs. And there are a lot who also want to take it next level, who want to go deeper, who want to apply it to the next level, who will go on and become paying clients. So that’s the first thing is you’ve got to make sure that you’re clear on what you’re trying to do with your ideas.

What is the purpose of each piece of your content? And as ideas come, then you have to decide where they fit in. Now, I don’t think there’s a right and wrong answer. I just know that I need to be open to receiving ideas for all kinds of things. I need ideas about how to be more effective in helping my current clients. I need ideas about different marketing and sales strategies to try out. I need ideas for the content creation I’m doing, like I said here on this podcast or on social media or in emails or wherever, YouTube, etc., wherever we’re doing content creation. I need ideas all the time.

So this brings me to the main thing I want to discuss today. People say to me all the time, “Aren’t you afraid you’ll run out of ideas?” Or, “How in the world do you keep coming up with new ideas? How do you have so many ideas?” And the way I think about ideas is basically the way I learned it from Elizabeth Gilbert in her book, Big Magic. If you have not read Big Magic, I highly recommend it for anybody that is doing anything creative. And if you have a business you are doing something creative.

In Big Magic, Elizabeth Gilbert talks about ideas as sort of existing, if you will, in the universe on their own. And sort of visiting each of us human beings who has the capacity and the ability to do something with them. And if we do something with them they are happy to partner with us to impact the world positively in the way that they want to, but if we don’t, they will simply go try to knock on someone else’s door until they find someone who will work with them to put them into the world. Isn’t that kind of a cool way to think about ideas?

Instead of thinking I have to come up with ideas, I have to generate ideas, I have to have ideas. That’s a lot of pressure, but I don’t think about ideas that way. I think about ideas as things that I receive, that I stay open to, that I am available to. And many of the ideas that come to me, I’m never going to be able to do anything with. So I don’t think of ideas as rare and it’s here, I’d better capture it, I’d better do something right away or it’s going to leave. That’s not what I mean.

I think of ideas as this is a good one, let me jot it down somewhere. And maybe I’ll do something with it and maybe not. And if I don’t, it will go find someone else. I don’t even think the ideas are mad at us when we don’t do anything with them. I don’t think about it that way. I just think about it as they’re like, hey, do you want to hang out? And I’ll say, “Maybe”, and jot it down. And sometimes I’ll come back around to it and sometimes I don’t, but if I don’t, it’ll just go ask someone else, “Hey, do you want to hang out?”

And I think of ideas as being plentiful and abundant and wanting to partner with us. They love to work with us. I was recently on a walk with my teenage daughter who is an artist. She’s actually going to be such a great illustrator. She’s a really good artist. And you can go check out her art on her Instagram page which is Macy Moo Art. M-A-C-Y M-O-O A-R-T. If you want to check out some of her art but she’s really loving illustrating.

And she’s gotten really good at being able to draw what someone else has drawn or have an inspiration picture. Now she’s working on drawing from her imagination and little spoiler alert, she and I are working on an illustrated book together, a children’s book, if you will. But it’s going to be pretty powerful for all ages, so stay tuned for that. But at any rate, she was talking about drawing from her mind, from her imagination and how much harder that is and how she has to come up with ideas.

And even as I have written this short book and she’s trying to draw pictures to go with it, the book gives her, obviously the words give her some idea of what to draw. But she still has to decide in her mind what is that going to look like on the page. Exactly what will the characters and the book be doing and what will be the setting. And I offered her this idea that ideas come to us. We don’t have to find them, we just have to be open to receiving them and she completely agreed.

And I love the idea that ideas come to her in the form of pictures or visual ideas. Ideas come to me in the form of concepts or words because that is the work I’m doing in the world. And so that is the way I receive ideas. And I think we’re all receiving ideas all the time and they often come to us in the way that we are expressing ourselves in the world and in the way that that idea might be expressed in the world. So if this is true, if you want to think about ideas this way then the question becomes, how do I keep myself open then to receiving ideas?

And what I have discovered is that I have to keep myself in an abundant, loving, trusting, not fear based, the opposite of fear based, I can’t be in scarcity. I can’t be in people pleasing. I can’t be wanting to impress anyone. I have to be open to trusting and receiving and trying things out, not for any outside agenda other than creating goodness, creating more abundance, contributing value in the world. And when I’m in that place I receive all kinds of ideas.

So what is it that gets you into that trusting, loving, creative, open-minded, exciting space and gets you out of fear? What is it for you? For me it’s usually really small practices that I can do consistently like getting fresh air and going on a walk, listening to certain types of music, certain types of audiobooks or podcasts. A lot of times for me I’ll be listening to somebody else who has written something or has produced something. And I get ideas that don’t even have anything to do with what I’m listening to.

It’s just that listening to them gets me into the right mindset to then receive ideas. And I always have a little notebook with me and/or my phone. And I take those ideas and I jot them down into the notes app of my phone or into my notebook. Have you ever noticed how you can have an idea come to you that’s such a good idea, that you’re so excited about and you’ll think, I’m for sure not going to forget this idea, it’s such a good one, I’m so excited about it. And if you don’t write it down, nine times out of 10, you still forget it.

Have you also ever had the experience, again, Elizabeth Gilbert describes this in her book, Big Magic, but have you had that experience of seeing something be created or invented or put out in the world and gone, “I had the idea for that. I was going to do that?” Again, it just sort of validates that idea that ideas leave us if we don’t partner with them and they go try to find someone else who will.

So here’s the thing, I love that ideas work this way. I do also think that ideas are sort of recirculating. They’re not usually brand new ideas. I don’t think I’ve ever had a brand new idea that no one ever thought of before. I just have an iteration of it that is relevant to the work that I’m doing. And that when I mix it with my personality and my style then it’s going to come out a little bit differently than anything that’s ever been created in the world before.

But ideas are plentiful and I truly believe that. I believe there’s no way I could possibly in my lifetime do something with all the ideas that come to me when I keep my head in the right space. I think I’m only ever going to get to a fraction of them and that’s okay. And guess what, my friend, the same is true for you. Ideas want to work with you. They want to come to fruition in the world and they want to do it with you in your way through your strengths and your style and your personality. What is that going to look like? Let the ideas come.

Thanks for joining me for Entre-Talk. If you haven’t grabbed my free training, make sure you do so. It is the basic building blocks of how you go from wherever you are to the next level even if where you are is you’ve done nothing and you’re starting from scratch. I’m going to tell you how I built a multiple million dollar coaching practice and you can too. And it’s at jodysfreetraining.com. I’ll see you there. Take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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Our daily lives are full of success stories, but so often we get lost looking at our failures. I’m telling you, your life has way more success stories than failures. Why not work toward your goals with this in mind – all your wins, all your ability, all the skills that come effortlessly?

A winning mindset can be applied to any area of your life that challenges you. When your head is in the right place, you can quickly find more compassion, ability, and actions that are aligned with success.

This week, I am excited to talk to you about winning and learning from your successes. This practice is transformative and can be so simple once you have identified how it applies to your life. I share specific examples to outline how mindset can change your ability to confront challenges.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Methods of seeing through the lens of success. * How to be more accountable in your business. * How to apply a winning mindset to anything in your life.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Esther Abraham Hicks
1. Biceps After Babies with Amber Brueseke

Coming soon…

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post 404. Win and Learn appeared first on Jody Moore.

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If you’re trying to build a business, it’s easy to get out of balance. There’s a lot of talk about how we need to have work-life balance. I agree with that, of course. However, like many other areas of business and life, our brains can take a really useful concept like work-life balance and use it to sabotage us.

I see people feeling guilty about how much time they spend working on their businesses. Or worse, they are afraid to even get started and really dive into their business for fear they won’t have work-life balance. Sound familiar? I’ve experienced this for myself, and there are a few things I want you to consider.

Tune in this week to discover how a fear of lacking work-life balance might be stopping you before you even get started. I’m sharing why having work-life balance is a choice, and how to own the decision to focus your attention on your business in an empowering way, without feeling bad about it.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The guilt entrepreneurs experience around working longer hours than they intended. * How to get clear on your thoughts about work-life balance. * 2 things to consider if you’re worried about starting a business meaning you won’t have work-life balance.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * The 75 Hard Challenge

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Work-Life Balance.Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hello there, friends, welcome to an Entre-Talk episode where we talk all things entrepreneurial, business building. Is that a word, entrepreneurial? Did I say it right? Lately I feel like I’m having trouble speaking clearly. I’m fumbling over my words a lot more, is this because I’m just getting older? Is this some kind of health condition? What is going on? Someone tell me. No, don’t tell me. Don’t tell me. Well, I mean if you have a solution, let me know. I kind of think I’m just getting older maybe and my thoughts aren’t coming as quickly and clearly. And then I fumble over them as I say them. I don’t know. At any rate I apologize in advance.

And we’re going to dive in because I’m really excited to talk to you about being out of balance. If you are trying to build a business or well, this is true for anybody who has a job or well, I mean maybe anyone, let’s just say anyone this can be true, that it’s easy to get out of balance. It’s easy to put your head into one area of your life.

And when we get on a roll with it, when we start having success, having ideas, seeing clearly what the steps are, the next steps are that we need to be taking to achieve whatever we’re trying to achieve. Then it’s easy to want to not walk away from that in order to go do the other things that we value in our lives, whatever those things are. Maybe it’s taking care of yourself personally, your health. Maybe it’s taking care of the family, things like that.

And so there’s a lot of talk out there about the importance of work-life balance. You don’t want to let work take over your life. You need to have balance. And I agree with that, of course. I’m not here to dispute that. I just notice that just like everything, our clever, clever brains take what is a really useful concept and good advice and then sometimes they use that to sabotage us.

What I see happen the most commonly with this concept is that people feel guilty or they’re afraid to even start. And by starting I mean to get much traction, to really dive into their business building efforts. Because they’re afraid they will not have work-life balance. So let’s talk about that one first then I’ll come back to the guilt. So I see a lot of entrepreneurs say, “I told myself I was going to work these hours”, whatever those are, maybe it’s five hours a week. Maybe it’s 25/30 hours a week. I don’t know.

“But I told myself I was going to work this much but I’m just not doing it. I’m just afraid if I really dive in, I’m going to neglect every other part of my life.” And when I say, “Why are you afraid of that?” They say, “Because that’s what I’ve done in the past. I know myself. I get into something, I become obsessed with it. I sort of start neglecting other areas.” Can you relate to this? I can.

I used to sew back before I was an entrepreneur. I was still working in corporate, but I had a couple of kids and when I came home I liked to sew. I had my sewing machine I would keep out for the most part if I had a spot for it. And I liked to make the baby gifts. And I liked to make clothes for my kids and just little projects that I would find online and things. And sewing was really fun and therapeutic for me. And I could get into a sewing project and want to go all night long. It was hard to stop sewing to make dinner or to do whatever else needed to be done.

And I probably neglected my own health and self-care because I would just rather sew. Can you relate to this whatever your thing is? So we take that and we go, “That will probably happen with my business.” I’ll probably get into it. I’ll start figuring some stuff out or I’ll have this project that I really want to finish. And I’m going to then abandon the other things that I value in my life. And I don’t want to do that so I just won’t build this business. Now, again, I always in this situation start with, “Okay, then why don’t we just not do this business?” You don’t have to. It’s totally fine.” I’m not trying to talk anyone into doing it.

But nine times out of 10 they will come back with, “No, I really want to. Not doing it isn’t even an option in my mind. I don’t want to not do it.” That would be a different kind of tragedy. So if that’s true for you then there’s a couple of things you have to remember. The first one is that that whole getting so into something that we neglect everything else, doesn’t just happen to us. It is a series of choices we make. We choose not to be disciplined. We choose not to stop the project and go do the other things that matter to us.

We choose to let ourselves spend longer than we planned to on it. It is a choice, I promise you. I know it feels like it just happened to you, but it didn’t. So that’s the first thing you have to do is, own that it’s a choice. And I don’t mean that you should feel bad if you’ve done it before. I don’t mean that that was on me, I should have walked away. No, no, no, I never think that. I go, “That’s what I chose to do and it turned out fine. But I could choose something different if I wanted.

I have chosen in the past sometimes to spend a lot longer on a project than I intended and that’s what I chose. It’s all in the past so there’s no upside to feeling bad about it now. But if I wanted to choose something different, I could. Do you see how this empowers you rather than think it’s just going to happen to you? It doesn’t just happen to any of us. It’s a series of choices. That’s number one.

Number two is I like to make a case for being out of balance at times. Yes, I’m all for balance, work-life balance. That’s a good thing. But sometimes being out of balance is fine. For example, I am getting ready to get on a plane tomorrow with my family. It is spring break. We’re going to go to Phoenix and hopefully catch a little bit of sun, get out of this cold for a few days, swim in a pool, eat some good food, laugh a little, probably deal with some grumpiness too, and then come home.

I am not going to work the whole time I’m there. I’m not even going to take my computer with me. I do not take it when I go on vacation with my family. You know why? I want to be out of balance. I’m not going to be working. I’m going to be just be with my family. And there are other times when I am working a little bit more or a lot more even than I normally would. I’m not going to always put in more hours and more effort, but in short bursts of time on occasion when I have a reason I like, I may work more.

I may have a certain deadline or goal I’m trying to meet and I may allow myself to work more intensely, to focus more intensely. Just like if you wanted to get your body in shape you may do some kind of a bootcamp for a limited time or what’s the thing everyone does, the 75 hard or something like that? What is it called? It’s this thing where they go a certain amount of days and there’s all these things you have to do like work out twice a day and I don’t know what else. But it’s not forever hard, it’s 75, is it 75? Whatever the number is.

You do it for a certain number of days. It’s purposely out of balance. You’re not going to push yourself to that extent forever, but for a short period of time it can give you a burst of success, first of all, and progress. It also kind of helps create some habits that once you scale it back to a more balanced healthy level, start to feel easy. It changes things a little bit. So there are times both erring on the side of my business and erring on the side of my family or my personal life or my health when I will choose to be out of balance.

And if you tell yourself, I need to be balanced all the time, alright, if that works for you. But I find for me, that doesn’t work because then I feel guilty when I’m with my kids if I’m not working on my business. And I feel guilty when I’m working on my business if I’m not with my kids. Can you relate to this? Then try this out. Listen, right now is the time when I’m going to be out of balance. It doesn’t mean that you don’t still have parameters around what you’re doing but sometimes I think this whole work-life balance thing is either overrated or like I said, we use it to sabotage ourselves and I don’t want you to do that.

Alright, everybody, thanks for joining me for Entre-Talk. I’ll be back next Monday with another Entre-Talk episode. Also make sure you’re listening to the Friday episodes of Better Than Happy because they’re all going to be super relevant to you as an entrepreneur as well. Alright, I’ll see you next time. Take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: Work-Life Balance appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Jealousy never feels particularly fun, but did you know that there are many interesting things to be discovered when you feel it? I try not to get upset about any perceived negative emotion that I experience, but with jealousy, I actually get excited when I notice it. And if this sounds crazy to you, you’re in the right place.

Jealousy can be characterized by a longing or desire for something. If you’re anything like me, you probably have a very clear idea of what you don’t want, but can you say you have a vision of exactly what you do want?

Join me on this episode as I show you how there is so much power in understanding what you truly desire, and why jealousy can sometimes be a doorway into helping you see that. You’ll hear what I like to make jealousy mean when I notice it, and what would happen if we never felt jealous or dissatisfied.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why I don’t view jealousy as a bad thing. * What I like to make jealousy mean when it comes up for me. * How having a clear vision of what you want is necessary for you to create it. * Why dissatisfaction and a desire for more is part of the human condition. * What would happen if we stopped striving for more.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Time Out for Women

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 403, Jealousy.

Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast. I’m going to talk to you a little bit about jealousy today. I’m going to talk to you about what I like to make this emotion mean when it comes up for me and why I don’t view it necessarily as a bad thing, why I don’t tell myself I shouldn’t be jealous or try to get rid of it quickly. Because there’s a lot of interesting things to be discovered when we are feeling jealous.

So before we dive into that I want to make sure that you are registered to join me at Tryout Coaching if you’ve never tried out coaching. Because even if you think your life is amazing, I promise you that it could be exponentially better. You could be exponentially happier or more successful at whatever it is that you want to be successful at. That might mean that your life is easier, that might mean that you’re doing more of the things you love. It might mean that you’re achieving goals that maybe you thought were never possible.

And I know that because that’s what coaching did for me. I found coaching when I was struggling and it helped me through some of those struggles. But what I didn’t expect was all the amazing things that I would go on to create and that I’m still creating for my own life, for my family, for just our lifestyle, for my relationships, all of it because of coaching. Things that I just thought, I’m not that kind of person. I’m not the kind of person who can achieve those things or have those things or feel that way or be that person.

Anything that you desire is available to you. So don’t take my word for it, come and try out coaching and see what you think. You can head to jodymoore.com/trial if you want to join me for this free two hour Zoom workshop. And all the details are on that page.

So jealousy, let’s talk about jealousy for just a moment. What does jealousy feel like in your body first of all, do you know? Have you paused when you feel jealousy come up to get into your body? Most of us, when we have an emotion like jealousy we get in our heads. I find that people are usually more aware of their thoughts than their feelings. They can tell me, “It feels like it’s not fair. It feels like everybody else is happy or succeeding or winning and I am not. It feels like I’m missing out on something.”

Those statements are actually thoughts, they’re not feelings. Feelings are one word sensations that happen in the body. They are results of thoughts, but most of us when we have an emotion like jealousy are so in our heads that we lose touch with what it feels like in the body. So that’s the first thing I would ask you, what does it feel like in your body? Now, if you do that next time you feel jealous or if maybe you’ve done that before, you reflect on it, you will discover that it doesn’t feel good, it doesn’t. It feels like a pressure. It feels like heat.

And in fact the more I do this work with people and we describe negative emotions and we get in our bodies and feel them, I feel like they feel very similar. Some of them are stronger than others. Some of them have more movement to them than others. But they almost all feel like some kind of a pressure in the chest area, maybe a discomfort in the stomach or solar plexus region. And, again, some have more movement and are stronger, but I think jealousy feels like just about any other emotion that we might describe as negative.

For me, jealousy sort of rushes up sometimes even into my head. I feel like there’s a heat or something that runs up into my head when I feel jealous. So it doesn’t feel great, but here’s the reason why I’m not super mad about it when it comes. I mean I try not to be super mad about any emotion that comes because then I have the emotion and anger on top of it. But with jealousy I especially almost kind of get excited a little bit when it comes and here’s why.

First of all, what is jealousy? Well, according to the internet, it is a feeling of envy of someone else’s achievements and advantages. And envy is described as a discontented feeling or being resentful or a longing for. And it’s that longing for portion of jealousy that is the reason I get sort of excited or glad when I feel it come. Because what jealousy is to me is information about something that I have a longing for. It is information about something that I desire.

And do you know what I’m constantly trying to get better at? Understanding what I desire, what I truly desire. Now, I’ve recently read some pretty compelling evidence that says that none of us have actual core desires. We all just are watching other people in the world and our desires are based on what we see is possible. And I think there can be a lot of truth to that. But I still think it’s interesting that some of the things that I desire, other people have zero desire for.

I love speaking on a stage. You guys, some of you have probably heard me tell my story about how for so many years I wanted to speak at Time Out for Women and I love that I’m getting to do that this year. But a lot of people are like, “Okay, good for you, Jody Moore, but I have zero desire to stand on a stage in front of thousands of people and speak.” So even though we, maybe we do get all of our desires, maybe they’re all ideas that we see other people achieving or ways that we see other people living their lives.

So why is it that we all have different desires? We don’t all desire the same thing even though there’s a lot of overlap. So I think there is still some, maybe it’s our personality, maybe it’s in our DNA. Maybe our life experiences shape it or maybe it’s God given, I don’t know. I don’t really care. All I know is the more I become aware of what I want, the more likely I am to be able to go and get it. And the more specific I can get about what I want the more ability I have to create that, to attract that, whatever you want to call into my life.

And I know that I don’t have to put effort into discovering what I don’t like. That comes very easily. It happens to me all day long. I notice that I don’t like the weather. I don’t like the mess. I don’t like the way my hair looks today. There are things everywhere that I dislike. I do not need to be on the lookout for that. But sometimes I notice a lack of clarity around what I do like, around what I want in my life. And I know from experience and you probably do too that having a picture and a vision of what I want is necessary first to be able to then create it.

I can’t create something or go after something or pursue something that I don’t even know I want in most cases. Maybe there are some exceptions but for the most part, clarity about what I desire is a useful thing. So when I feel jealousy come up, what I do is I go, “Oh, there is something useful here for me to understand about something that I desire.” Let’s see what’s underneath this jealousy. I think that our constant longing for more is an interesting thing to consider.

Because on the one hand, if you’re a parent like me, maybe you notice this in your kids. It doesn’t matter how much we give them, at some point they always want more. It doesn’t matter how many times I let them just take a day off of school because they need a break, they still want another day off school, that same school year at some point. There is no lasting satisfaction as Mick Jagger says, can’t get no satisfaction. That song was so popular because we all resonate with it, that is so true.

Maybe I’m satisfied for a moment once I achieve something or I get something that I want but then the dissatisfaction comes back. This is the human condition. So the reason I used the example with kids is because it’s tempting for me to watch my kids and go, “They are so ungrateful.” They don’t realize how privileged and easy their life is and they don’t have perspective on how challenging so many people in the world have it compared to them. And they want more. They already have so much.

They already have this amazing life and they want more. Those ungrateful little people. Does your brain do that like mine does? But then I remind myself that I’m the same way. I constantly desire more. I constantly notice dissatisfaction try to come back online. Now, I do think that managing that is useful to a certain extent. I don’t think walking around dissatisfied all the time serves us. I think gratitude is the counter to dissatisfaction. It helps keep it in balance. But I think that this dissatisfaction is also useful, I think that it actually makes us better.

Let me say that again, the dissatisfaction that we all experience as human beings from time to time if kept in check with some gratitude can actually make us better people, you know why? Because the pursuit of the next thing, the next accomplishment, the next whatever it is, is necessary for our growth. But if we just were completely satisfied with our lives, we would stop striving to be more, do more and see what we’re capable of, we would. So I don’t care if a part of you is like, “No, Jody, I’m totally content.” I think that’s great.

And I think we all go through periods of that, but I promise you that if nothing in your life ever changed, if you didn’t have new trials or challenges or goals or something, you would become very bored. And satisfaction for too long creates that kind of stagnation that leads to boredom or lack of fulfillment.

So this dissatisfaction, again, I love to think about our ancestors living in caves and they one day were like, “You know what? I am tired of not having protection from the weather. I’m tired of worrying about what the weather’s going to do and wondering if we’re going to be cold or if we’re going to get sick or if we’re going to be protected. I’m tired of living this way.” And so somebody figured out how to build more of a shelter at some point. Maybe they figured out how to build some kind of a grass hut or something.

And then at some point somebody’s like, “I’m tired of living in this place that constantly falls apart and then we have to rebuild it.” And so they figured out how to build something even more sturdy and more stable. And they get tired of being cold and so they figured out how to start a fire. So this dissatisfaction is what helps us progress and has gotten us to the state that we’re in today, the world that we live in. And we continue to then build on what our ancestors created for us because of our dissatisfaction.

So do you see why dissatisfaction is not a bad thing? We can counter it again, with gratitude and keep it in check. Because I’m not talking about walking around feeling sorry for yourself. I’m not talking about complaining. I think we all do far too much of that. I think we need more gratitude. But dissatisfaction in and of itself, some of it is actually useful and keeps us progressing forward.

So when I notice jealousy come up it is indicative that there is a desire or interest or dissatisfaction that I have with some part of my life and I want to become aware of what that is. Sometimes the surface level desire, the surface thing that I’m feeling jealous about might not be the actual desire, but underneath that is what I think of as pure good, wholly righteous desire. Let’s see. Let me give an example.

So sometimes I’ll be on Instagram and I follow some of the people who live out in Utah, who maybe their work is similar to mine or maybe it’s very different but they might have similar values. And because they all live in Utah, they will get together a lot. So I’m talking about mostly women who have small businesses, different types of small businesses, but maybe they are coaches or maybe they are doing other things in the world. But I notice that they will get together sometimes, maybe around the holidays or maybe for some kind of an event.

And then they’ll all start posting pictures, maybe it’s a book signing or something like that. And they’ll start posting pictures and videos and what have you, of this get together and I will feel so jealous sometimes. I feel so jealous that they live near each other, that they can get together like that, that they’re networking with each other, that they have those relationships with one another even. And it triggers that part of my brain that thinks I’m missing out on something.

So here’s the question. Is my desire to go to that book signing that they just went to? Maybe, but maybe it’s actually something deeper than that. So I like to explore it. I like to notice, okay, here’s jealousy. It is here to tell me something about what I desire. Do I desire that exact gathering? I mean yeah, it would have been cool to go to that gathering, but why? Am I desiring more connection? Am I desiring to have other people doing similar work to myself that I can network with?

Do I desire some kind of acknowledgment? Do I feel like I’m missing out on some kind of acknowledgement? Am I just desiring to feel like I am worthy and good enough and at a certain level in terms of the work that I’m doing in the world? What is really underneath that desire? It’s actually usually not even about that event that you saw online, but there is something underneath it that I want to understand.

Now, here’s where it gets tricky. I do think that we have general desires that are kind of similar for all of us. And then we have specific desires. And I think it’s okay to not know your specific desires. I notice for myself, I have to be really patient with letting them come, but opening yourself up to wanting to discover them is the really powerful thing. So some general desires that I think we pretty much all have are things like connection, adventure, love, to have experiences in the world, laughter, joy, fulfillment, contribution, impact, legacy.

These are basic desires that we all have, but what form do those desires take? Very different for all of us. That’s the specific part. So for example, when I talk about having experiences. When you see someone go on a vacation and you feel jealous, that’s probably about wanting connection, wanting adventure, wanting experiences. But notice, there are certain types of trips people will take that you might feel really jealous of and others that you can still have a lot of respect and admiration and think that’s cool, but you don’t feel jealous because you don’t desire that same type of adventure.

Now, let’s go back to jealousy for just a moment. Here’s why jealousy feels pretty bad. We can have this excited anticipation for what we desire, but jealousy is usually desire with a sort of toxic dirty fear based pain layered on top of it. So it is I really want connections like that, relationships like that, experiences like that. And then here comes the dirty part and I don’t believe I can have it. That’s never going to happen for me. I’m not the kind of person who can create that or have that kind of life, or I missed it, it’s too late.

The thing that I wanted has passed and now it’s too late and I’ll never have it. That’s a terrible feeling. It really kind of comes down to either belief that we are less than or our lives are less than. And we use other people’s joy, happiness, success, accomplishments as proof that maybe that’s true. Isn’t that crazy when you think about it that way? We all have these two core fears driving us, that we’re not good enough or that our lives are less amazing than they should be.

And we see someone else succeeding or happy or winning in the way they choose to and we use that to prove that we’re not enough or our lives aren’t good. It’s so crazy how our brains do this. This is why jealousy doesn’t feel good. If you have a desire and on top of that desire you believe that you cannot have it, it will feel pretty bad. But if you choose to clean off, I literally am picturing a glass with water in it and then something sitting on top. And so that’s why I say clean off or clean up that part, that fear based part.

Then you’re just left with the pure desire. So if you stop believing that you can’t have it, that it’s not for you, you’re not that kind of person, you missed out on something, then you’ll just have this really interesting kind of fun to play with, awareness of your desire.

I want to give one other example here of this. So I remember a few years ago at one of my life events which for those of you in Be Bold, we have Be Bold Live coming up in a couple of months. And if you’re not in Be Bold, you need to get in there if you want to come to a live event, which, those are pretty extraordinary, I’ve got to say. Come to a day live coaching with me and you will feel transformed.

But at any rate, so this was a few years ago and I was coaching a woman in this live event and she was saying how she gets so jealous or I don’t remember if this happened ongoing for her, but in this one example her friends had planned a trip and they hadn’t invited her to go. And she was super jealous. So we’re talking all about her friends and why maybe they didn’t invite her, what she’s making it mean about her, about how they feel about her and now how she’s feeling about them.

And we’re doing all of this great work around this topic and it just keeps coming up that she’s just so jealous that they’re going on this trip without her. And, finally after a good 20 ish or more minutes of coaching, I finally ask her where they’re going? And she says somewhere, I can’t remember the exact location but it was some kind of a beach vacation, they were going to a beach. And then she casually throws in this comment.

She’s like, “I don’t even like beaches. I’m not the kind of person who wants to go sit on a beach all day. If I’m going to go on a trip, I want to be doing fun things, but that’s beside the point.” And then she goes on about why she’s jealous. And I was like, “Wait, wait, wait, back up the train for just a moment.” And this woman is, I can totally relate to this woman. Can you relate to this? Where a part of your brain is jealous and upset that you didn’t get invited on the vacation.

And when we really slow it down and ask, “Did you want to go on that vacation?” The answer’s, “No, I don’t want to go sit on.” I mean I do want to sit on a beach, but she didn’t. The actual thing that I’m upset about, I don’t want that or I don’t even care at least that I’m not a part of that. But there’s some useful information underneath that about what she does want. Is it that she wants to feel included? Is it that she wants to feel wanted by her friends?

And that is good to know because all of that is sort of dangerous territory. And here’s what’s so interesting about coaching. When we notice a model like this where I’m jealous I didn’t get invited on the vacation because I want to feel like they want me there, guess what happens? We become the kind of person that even we don’t like being around. We start playing weird games. We have to pretend. Maybe we get sort of rude back. And it’s just so fascinating how we actually create the very thing that we say we don’t want.

But at any rate there is some information here, but we’re going to have to clean up the dirty part of the jealousy, the judgment of others, the belief that you can’t have what you want, the insecurity. See what I mean about those two core fears? Maybe something’s wrong with me or definitely something’s wrong with my life. And if we clean that up then we can just find the desire underneath. In this woman’s case it’s a desire for connection, a desire for a social network, a desire to have a safe place to be herself. That’s all very general.

What I would love is for her to let that be there and clean up the dirty pain part so that it’s no longer jealousy, it’s just desire. And then open herself up to specifics because here’s what happens my friends, when you open your mind up to I am going to be on the lookout for the specific way that I want to implement that and have that in my life. You will start to notice it. It is called your reticular activating system. It is a function of the brain that filters out anything that is irrelevant so that you can just have the capacity to bring into your awareness what is relevant.

Your brain doesn’t really know the difference between what’s useful and not useful. It only knows relevance and non-relevance. So for example, if every time I think about COVID I become very afraid then thinking about COVID isn’t useful, but my brain doesn’t know that, it only knows that COVID is relevant and it’s going to pay attention to things about COVID. I just picked COVID as a random example, but you can substitute whatever you want there.

So relevance is how your reticular activating system works, things like your name are relevant to your brain. So if you’re walking through the airport and there’s a whole bunch of noise and people, lots of stimulus for your brain to filter out. But if someone suddenly said your name from the loudspeaker, if they announced your name you would hear it, your brain would filter out everything else and pick up on your name because your name is so relevant to you.

So becoming aware of what you want and staying open to discovering what that is going to look like specifically allows relevant possibilities to make it through the filter that your brain has where it tries to get rid of anything irrelevant.

So lately I’ve been on the lookout for a gym or workout class that I can go to that is super fun and exciting for me, because I used to have that when I lived in California. And since moving the way I haven’t found the place or the format that’s going to have the offerings that I need and just fit into my life the way it did before. And the other day I was driving down the street and there was a billboard that caught my eye. And I still in all honesty I need to go back down that street now because I didn’t catch the name of the gym.

But it said something about, abandon your old workout routine. And I could tell it was some kind of new gym or class or something in my area. Now, I didn’t notice it in time to capture the information, but I did notice it just long enough to know that it’s there and I can go back and see what it was. And that’s only because my brain is on the lookout otherwise I probably wouldn’t have noticed that billboard at all. It would have filtered it out. So this is the power of understanding what you desire and jealousy is sometimes a doorway into that.

So don’t tell yourself you shouldn’t be jealous. Don’t tell yourself that it means you’re not grateful. Don’t let jealousy run away, don’t run away with all that dirty part of it, don’t let that get out of hand. Practice gratitude and practice believing that anything you truly desire is possible for you. I didn’t say anything is possible for you, I said anything you truly desire is possible for you. And I don’t mean desire from pride, desire from ego, desire from trying to prove something.

I mean just, I don’t know why this thing sounds interesting in front of me but it does, just think it might be cool, just kind of want to explore it. Jealousy is a doorway into that sometimes.

Alright, thanks for joining me today, you guys, you are amazing. Thank you so much for listening and sharing. I’m loving interacting with all of you on Instagram. If you want to come, DM me a question. If you share this episode please tag me so that I can reshare it and give you a shout out. I love you all. Have a beautiful, amazing week. Bye bye.

Who is your life coach? If you don’t have one, I would be so honored to be your coach. I created a virtual coaching program called Be Bold that I want to invite you to join me in. We can address challenges. We can work on goals. And we can do it in so many different ways. We have group coaching, individual private coaching and online chats along with hundreds of hours of courses and content that I’ve created just for you. When you’re ready to really take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10x level then come check out Be Bold at jodymoore.com/membership.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post 403. Jealousy appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I know that you already know that abundance breeds more abundance. However, I think we could all do with a refresher on just how valuable the concept of abundance can be for both entrepreneurs and your clients. If you’re concerned that your clients can’t afford your offers or won’t want to pay what you’re charging, listen in.

Most people think about abundance in terms of needing to believe that they have enough money, that they are capable of making money, or that whatever they’re offering is worth someone else paying for. But I invite you to think beyond that, to shift the focus to your potential customers’ abundance instead.

This week, I show you how to see the whole world as an abundant place. Your potential clients and customers have the same capacity for abundance as you do, and when you create value for them, they create value for someone else. Learn how to reframe the way you’re currently viewing your customers and stop being shy about creating amazing value for them.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* One of the ways scarcity really limits entrepreneurs. * How to put more faith in your customers’ capacity for abundance. * Why you need to stop feeling bad for charging for your offers.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Brad Jensen * Killing Sacred Cows by Garrett Gunderson

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Abundance Breeds Abundance. Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master-certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hey there everybody. I know you already know that abundance breeds abundance, that we reap what we sow. But I want to spend just a few minutes diving into it today and kind of proving to your brain more or less the value of abundance. Because the reason we get stuck in scarcity is because our brains think that that is useful. Our brains think that it’s somehow protective or preventative or preparatory. And as an entrepreneur and business owner, it is going to limit you at some point.

It might be useful to plan and to be conscious with your money but that doesn’t have to be even coming from a scarcity mindset. And beyond planning and paying attention to your money, scarcity really has no upside that I have experienced anyway for entrepreneurs. So most people when we think about abundance, and I’m going to talk about it financially here, abundance with money.

Most people think about it in terms of I need to believe that I have enough money or whatever resources, that I’m capable of making money, that my offer, my products or services or my coaching package or whatever is worth money. They think of it in terms of themselves at the center, that’s what’s natural for us, to put ourselves in the center, but I want you to think beyond that. I want you to think of the world as an abundant place. I want you to think of your potential customers and clients as having the same capacity for abundance as anyone else.

One of the ways that I see scarcity really limit entrepreneurs is they believe that their clients or customers can’t afford their offer or they feel bad charging for an offer. It’s sort of transferring that same scarcity mentality onto your potential client or customer. I think that that is first of all, not serving your client or customer, but remember, your brain thinks it is. Your brain thinks it’s being kind and generous and aware of the reality of the world, if you will. And I don’t very often find that to be the case.

So here’s what I want to offer you for you to consider. What if you believed, if you believed that people are capable of achieving what they want to, that people are capable of creating what they want to and not with judgment. I don’t mean that you should start judging people who don’t create or achieve what they want to. I mean for all of us it takes a lot of trial and error and sometimes we think we want something but the truth is we’re actually just interested in it. We’re not really committed to it and that’s okay. There can be a lot of reasons for that.

But if you put faith in your potential client or customer as someone who is capable of accessing the resources and creating what they want in their lives, I promise you, you would be of more service to those people you’re trying to help than less. People want to believe that what they want is possible for them. And if you are the one who’s going to provide potentially something that they might want and you don’t believe it’s possible for them, do you see how you’re doing them a huge disservice?

You believing in them gives them sometimes permission to believe in themselves. Now, I am not talking about that you should convince people to put themselves in financial harm. I never tell my clients, “Why don’t you go get a credit card and put it on a credit card.” I don’t actually advise them financially at all. But I’m saying, I’m not talking about recommending to people that they make financial decisions that could be detrimental. I am just talking about your overall belief in their ability to have what they want and achieve what they want.

That belief is going to go both ways. When you believe in others, it becomes easier to believe in yourself or vice versa. Start by believing in yourself, because I’ll tell you, I have achieved some extraordinary things in my life and I am not special. I’m well aware of all my weaknesses, shortcomings and faults. And because I chose to just believe in myself anyway and then I achieved some things, now it’s so much easier for me to believe in other people.

I seriously look at so many of you and I think you are so much smarter than me. You’re more focused than me. You have your act more together in so many ways. If I can do this, I promise you can do this. So that belief is going to go both ways. Now, here’s the other thing that really helps when it comes to staying in financial abundance because again, I still hear this over and over with entrepreneurs, “I feel bad charging people. I feel bad taking money from friends”, etc.

And I love what Garrett Gunderson teaches in his book, Killing Sacred Cows. If you haven’t read that book, it’s amazing. It will help you so much, get into abundance in terms of money. And what Garrett Gunderson teaches is this reminder that a dollar bill, if I give you a dollar bill for something that I value or a $100 bill, whatever it is, you can take that money and then you can go give it to someone else for something that you value, that they’re offering.

And then they can go give it to someone else for something that they value and on and on and on, an infinite number of times. That is why there is more than enough money for everybody in the world to have everything they want because money can be exchanged an infinite amount of times. And as you create value that is how you attract money. So if that’s true for you, that’s true for every other person on planet Earth. So I know scarcity sometimes feels like the kind thing, it feels like the useful thing. It is not.

It will prevent you from creating value and demonstrating that value. That’s what we do, we hold back the demonstration of the value in the name of scarcity. And I’m not saying again that I want you to trick anyone. I don’t want you to manipulate anyone. I don’t even want you to be pushy. I just want you to not be shy about the value of what you offer. And I want you to believe in your customer or client, they need you to especially if you are a coach. They are looking to you to decide what to believe.

I’ll give a quick example here. I worked with Brad Jensen a couple of years ago and he helped me understand food and understand how to count macronutrients and eat in a way that really serves me and my body and I loved it so much. And when I first hired him, he’s asking me the questions that you might ask someone if you’re potentially going to be their nutrition coach. And so he asked me questions about what have I tried before and what are my current eating habits and my current weight and how much do I exercise and my age and all of that. And then what were my goals, what did I want to achieve.

And I really, as I was telling him my goals, I was sort of apologetic about it. I was like, “I’d like to do this but I know, I mean I’m 48 years old.” I think at the time I was 46. “That’s probably not really possible for me. I’ll be realistic.” And he was like, “No, that’s totally possible for you, yeah, for sure, easy. You can do that. I can help you do that.” And just him choosing to believe in me, and not having scarcity around it and also not being like, “Well, maybe you can’t afford it.” And not that you would ever say that but sometimes we come from that energy.

Gave me permission to believe in myself. And then I borrowed his belief until I could take it on, on my own. That is one of the gifts we get to offer as coaches. And it begins in the marketing and sales process in your business, it really does. Scarcity feels important, it is not, it is not serving you. Abundance is the way that you are able to be generous. Abundance is the way that you’re able to not be pushy in your sales.

I don’t have to be pushy when I’m selling something if I’m in abundance because I have the thought, if this person doesn’t want it, that’s okay, there’s plenty of others out there that will. But I am not only abundant about myself and my own business, I stay in abundance about my clients, about their abilities both to achieve the result they want and to find the money to pay for it. Try on abundance, it will serve everyone.

Thanks for joining me for this quick little Entre-Talk episode. I’ll see you next week. Take care.

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The post Entre-Talk: Abundance Breeds Abundance appeared first on Jody Moore.

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We’ve made a lot of progress in this day and age in terms of understanding how toxic much of the messaging we received around health and fitness was, and still continues to be. We’ve seen the extreme swing from the idea that everybody should lose weight, to today, where even uttering the words, “I want to lose weight,” can be construed to mean you’re promoting diet culture.

My guest this week is someone who has a brilliant approach when it comes to health and fitness. Amber Brueseke is a Registered Nurse, Personal Trainer, Crossfit Coach, founder of Macros 101, and host of the podcast Biceps After Babies Radio. If you’re working on your relationship with your body and food, or on improving your physical health, you’re going to find so many gems in our conversation.

Listen in today as Amber shares her top tips for taking baby steps toward getting healthier and feeling better. She’s busting the top myths about weight loss that are keeping you stuck, showing you how to shift your relationship with the scale, and her favorite hacks for macro counting and getting more protein in your diet.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why Amber loves the fitness realm and the reason she’s stayed in it for so long. * The difference between wanting something and desire. * How you can work on your mind and make improvements in your physical health simultaneously. * The foundational pieces of weight loss, and how so many women miss out on them. * One of the most important health factors that can improve women’s health throughout their lives. * Amber’s insights for what we should be eating before and after a workout. * Why the stress-recovery adaptation cycle is so important to understand. * The difference between weight loss and fat loss. * Amber’s tips on macro counting.

Mentioned on the Show:

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If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
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*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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Amber Brueseke: Website | Instagram | Podcast
Esther Perel
Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife
Brad Jensen

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 402, Biceps After Babies with Amber Brueseke

Hey, everybody, welcome to Better Than Happy. Thanks so much for joining me today. I want to tell you about a new workshop I’ve put together and I want to begin by telling you the price. It’s a pretty killer price. It’s completely free. And I’m calling it Tryout Coaching because that’s what it is. It’s a chance for you to try out coaching. It’s a chance for you to see what coaching is like and therefore be able to make an informed decision about whether or not coaching could help you with the things you’re struggling with or the goals that you want to achieve in your life.

I know of no better way for you to make a decision like that than to just try out coaching. So this is going to be a two hour workshop. It’s going to be very interactive. In fact I’m going to be bringing people on for coaching. And you’re going to get to experience what coaching is like. And my guess is that for most of you, you will feel the life changing power of it. If you don’t feel that, if it doesn’t resonate for you, that’s good for you to know too that at least my style of coaching isn’t the right fit for you.

So I want to encourage you to come and check it out. It is at jodymoore.com/trial T-R-I-A-L. You’re going to understand the kinds of things that coaching can help with and the kinds of things that it can’t. And you’re going to leave with better information. And even if you don’t want to work with me as a coach, I think that you’ll find it really valuable to understand what any coach who is trained in a similar modality to me would be able to do for you.

So even if you’re not considering my coaching program, if you’re considering another Life Coach School certified coach come to Tryout Coaching and see what you think.

Okay, so my guest today is Amber Brueseke. And here’s what I want to say about Amber is that I love this woman so much. I’ve only actually ever talked to her a couple of times but we both follow each other online and know of each other and are very supportive of one another’s work. And our work overlaps a little bit. She and I have a lot in common. We are both members of the LDS faith so we bring that kind of foundation with us into our lives of course and sometimes into our businesses. We both really value empowering women.

We are both coaches. We both love building our businesses too. We both get really lit up by that and we’re both moms, trying to juggle being a mom and an entrepreneur and all that. So you can see why I felt really drawn to Amber. Now, where I look up to Amber and feel that she is ahead of me or has just some strengths that are my weaknesses, maybe they always will be weaknesses for me, is around the idea of bodies and food. And you guys know, I try to be really transparent with you that that is a topic that for me is still a challenge.

I have a lot of work to do still around my thoughts and my relationship with bodies and food. And I’ve done a lot of work on that area. And I’m in a much healthier place with it today than I was even five years ago but I still have a lot of work to do and it still sort of ebbs and flows for me where I go through periods of being really healthy in my thinking about it. And of course when I’m healthy in my thinking it results in being healthy in my habits and then my physical health. And then other times where it’s just a lot harder and I find myself more emotional and everything.

And so what I love about Amber is that she doesn’t come from a dieting mindset but she also hasn’t flipped just to the other side of that coin and said, “You should never try to work on your physical health.” I just find that to be not true either. She’s got a really awesome approach and I really enjoyed talking with her.

And just you’re going to find so many gems in here if you’re like me and you’re still doing work on your relationship with your body, your relationship with food and improving your physical health. So without further ado here is my conversation with Amber Brueseke.

Jody: Amber, I’m so excited to talk with you.

Amber: Yes, this is going to be fun.

Jody: How’s life?

Amber: Super good.

Jody: You’re in California, right?

Amber: Yeah, Southern California. We’re just 10 minutes away from Disneyland.

Jody: My kids are obsessed with Disneyland.

Amber: Yeah, we actually got in 2019, so December 2019 we got season passes to Disneyland for our kids for Christmas. We surprised them big, 2020 is going to be the year [crosstalk], so many times. And we did go a lot between January and March when the world shut down.

We probably went eight to 10 times but my kids were actually kind of happy that it got shut down because they were kind of sick of spending every Saturday at Disneyland and sort of were like, “Oh, we’re going to Disneyland again.” And I’m like, “You guys are so ungrateful. You don’t know how many kids would love to be in your shoes.”

Jody: Would die for that.

Amber: So anyway, it had to be shut down and we got a refund. So we lived it up for a good two and a half months.

Jody: Okay, well, now you know what that’s like. Sometimes I remind them, they always say, “I wish we lived right next door and we could just come here all the time.” I’m like, “But then it might not feel as magical.”

Amber: No, it doesn’t. I mean there are nice things about it because we would get up and we would be there when the park opened on Saturday and then we would stay until noon. We would ride the rides that we wanted to ride and then we would go home. And so it was nice because we were just doing the morning and it was less busy and less crowded, less lines and we could always come back. So we didn’t stay the full 12 hours.

Jody: You didn’t have to do the Disney marathon days.

Amber: Yeah, to feel like you got your money’s worth so that is nice. But it definitely does, I mean my 13 year old especially, he was like, one night we went back ride Rise of the Resistance and he was like, “I’m not going.” I’m like, “It’s a brand new ride, we’re going back to ride Rise of the Resistance.” He’s like, “No, I’m not going back. I don’t want to go back to Disneyland.”

Jody: I’ve had enough of that. That’s interesting. It’s all relative in the end.

Amber: It is.

Jody: I’m jealous that you live somewhere warm right now. We’re getting in the phase where we’re all just…

Amber: You guys are getting pummeled.

Jody: [Crosstalk] winter.

Amber: Yeah, you guys are getting pummeled. So on my team I have somebody from South Dakota. I have someone from Utah and I have someone from Alaska. And so we get on our team meetings and I’m like, “It’s so cold here today, it’s 65.” And they’re like, “We don’t want to hear it.”

Jody: Really, up here in Alaska.

Amber: Yeah. My friend from South Dakota, she’ll send me messages of what degree it is that day, it’s negative 14 degrees. And I’m like, “I can’t. I can’t, I’d die.”

Jody: That’s a no for me. Well, anyway let’s get into the good stuff. I’m so grateful that you’re here. I want to ask your opinion about this whole topic of health and bodies and weight loss and muscle, building muscle and all of it. I feel like since I was a kid anyway, we’ve made a lot of progress in understanding just how toxic that some of that messaging was for many of us and still can be. I feel like though, and I’d love to hear your opinion on this.

I feel it’s sort of like Esther Perel who is a marriage specialist and relationship specialist talks about, it used to be frowned upon to leave your marriage. Now it’s frowned upon to stay in your marriage. I feel like with health and bodies especially when you bring weight loss in that’s what’s happened. We used to shame people for being overweight and now we shame people for wanting to lose weight. And I want to be like, it’s the different side of the same coin which is making somebody else’s body yours to determine.

I don’t know, because you work in that industry full-time, have you experienced that?

Amber: 100%. And I think you’re absolutely right. And I think there’s truth on both sides. And what I find is so often when you put truth next to partial truth, they look very similar. And so it’s really easy to get confused and people are like, “Well, can I lose weight or can I lose weight, is that diet culture? Any time I want to change my body, is that now I’m letting my programming and diet culture lead the way and is that a bad thing?”

And so I definitely have seen the swing from everybody should lose weight and you’re fat and lazy if you don’t to now we can’t even say the words, ‘I want to lose weight’, or else now you’re promoting diet culture and you hate people who are fat and all these things. And exactly what you said, those are two sides of the same extreme coin. And getting somewhere in the middle can be a healthy productive place.

One of the reasons that I love fitness and one of the reasons that I’ve stayed in the fitness realm for so long is I see it as a place to – and this kind of gets into your work and what you do is I see it as a place for personal development. It is a container that breeds personal development and the ability to be able to grow and pressure growth in what can be a very healthy way. Now, it can be a very unhealthy way as well. And so one of the things I’m always working with my clients is, and you talk about this I know, is what’s the why underneath.

What’s driving that decision to lose weight? Two women can be on a weight loss journey and one can be in a very unhealthy sphere that is promoted by diet culture and this idea that she will be more worthy or that if her body is smaller she will be more confident and be a better person. And that’s a really unhealthy space to be in.

And another woman can be on the same weight loss journey and it can be a very empowering container for growth where she is looking for what she wants to create and being driven by some of the challenges that are happening. And seeing that as a way to drive her development and her growth. They’re both on a weight loss journey. And so if we just blanket cover and say all weight loss journeys are bad and driven by diet culture, we’re missing out on the nuance there of what’s underlying, what’s driving that decision.

And I think that’s the important part for people to really step back and look at first. You probably know Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife. She has this really awesome concept of differentiating between desire and want. And she speaks to how if we want something, that is coming from a place of lack. We only want things that we don’t have.

And so there is a difference between wanting something which is coming from a scarcity, I don’t have this thing. I need this thing in order to be whole. And desire which is I’m already whole as I am and I would like to do this thing and I desire this thing. It’s a forward facing, a forward looking, I’m whole, if nothing happens I’m whole as I am and I also desire that thing. And so I think that’s such a beautiful way to look at yourself is do I want to lose weight or is it a desire? Is it coming from a place of I’m already whole and I would desire this thing? Or is it coming from a place of this is going to fix me?

Jody: That’s good. I describe it as wanting versus needing. Do I need to lose weight before I can accept myself and love my body and feel like I’m okay and understand my worth? Or do I just want to because I want to see what I’m capable of and I want to see what’s possible? So for our listeners who are asking themselves, well, am I in a healthy place, how do I know? How would someone know, first of all, Amber?

And then if they recognize, no, I am a little bit driven by body shame or whatever, can they get themselves into a healthy place? And do they need to wait to start on a weight loss journey before? And how do they do that? There’s five questions.

Amber: Yeah. I mean I think it’s the right question to be asking. So if you’re sitting here listening and asking yourself the question even before Jody posed it. That’s the right question to be asking yourself, what is driving my desire to change my body? And I think it would be silly to say that for all of us there is no influence of diet culture in that decision. That’s silly to say. We’ve all been raised in a society and a culture that promotes thinness, that promotes that as the ideal aesthetic.

So it would be silly for any of us to say, “No, that doesn’t impact me in the slightest.” So we can recognize, it’s in the water we drink, it’s in the air that we breathe, it’s in the culture that we are raised in. That definitely has been the standard. So that impacts all of us. But I think to your point, what you were saying is how much is that, if I took a pie chart and I said, “What percentage of it is driven by that cultural ideal?” And compare it against what is it from a desire to see what’s possible for me? Or is the desire to just push myself and to do hard things?

And to realize that doing hard things has inherent value for growth. And I think you can kind of graph that out a little bit for yourself of being honest of what’s driving that. And I think if majority of what you are trying to do is to achieve a cultural ideal or to fix yourself or to think that there is going to be better than here. I think there’s a lot of good that can be done to address that before you step into a weight loss journey. And I’m not going to give numbers. You’re going to know yourself better than me.

But if that is a smaller part of the pie chart and there is a larger part that has a drive, that has a desire, that wants to see what’s possible. I think you can work on that part of yourself simultaneously with a weight loss journey and it can still be so very healthy. A lot of the women that I’m working with, they’re doing it simultaneously. They’re working on their mind and their body simultaneously. And like I said, working on your body can be a context that pushes you to work on your mind.

If you don’t go into that goal it’s like it pressures you. When you get into that weight loss journey it pressures you, it shows you your blind spots of this is a part of my mind I actually really do need to work on. I didn’t realize it because I was just going through my life. So it actually shows you those parts of yourself, of where you can work on your mind and you can do that simultaneously.

Jody: I think so too. And I think that’s, again, why I still teach and coach people through or talk about my own weight loss journey is because I like that it brings up opportunities for me to work on myself. It brings up my thoughts, my limiting beliefs, even the diet culture I’ve been socialized with. And that’s how I get to take a look at it, a lot of it I’m already aware of, but some of it I become aware of. So I talk a lot on this podcast about examining your beliefs and how your thoughts are driving you, but I’m a believer in working on your beliefs and taking action at the same time.

And it’s sort of for me with food and weight and everything it’s I have to pay attention more. I sort of think of it like riding, you know those one wheel skateboards they ride now that have the one wheel in the middle? And you kind of have to balance. And that’s what I’m trying to do is stay balanced in the middle of yes, paying attention to my food and whatever health journey I’m on but also not putting my worth into that. And not being on this emotional rollercoaster of oh, yes, it worked. Oh, it didn’t work. Staying balanced of this is just because I want to push myself.

And yes, I have some residual stuff about bodies, like you said, that’s there too, but I just think even things, and I’d love for you to talk about this too. I’ve been surprised over the last few years at how much in the past I underestimated little things like drinking water, getting steps in. In my mind, weight loss was big and challenging. And not that I still don’t think it’s challenging, I do, but those little things I think I could easily still be focusing on if I needed to increase water, get more sleep, get more steps without my head going into a negative space.

Amber: Yeah. Well, and I mean this is the thing is that, and I talk about a pyramid of fitness. And what’s at the foundation of the fitness versus what’s at the top and the little 5% at the very top. And so many women want to focus on the very top of the pyramid before they have the bottom of the pyramid really like the foundation of fitness nailed down. And so they want to get into counting macros or they want to get into interim fasting or they want to get into all these techniques and these tools and these things that they think is going to solve everything.

But they’re completely ignoring the foundation which is, are you generally an active person? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you drinking enough water? Are you trying to get a diverse amount of food? Are you limiting your stress or are you stress managing? That is 80/20. And so many women want to go to that 20% because they think that’s going to be the solution, but they’re skipping the 80% that really creates the foundation for the 20% to work.

Yeah, if you get all that, if you’ve got all your house in order, the foundation, yeah, now we can add these other techniques and tools and science and things like that. But so many women are skipping that foundational piece and feeling like what’s missing is the cool stuff at the top.

Jody: So for someone listening, thinking, okay, I’ve got to work on the foundation, I know you sort of mentioned a few things there. But would you mind fleshing some of those out a little bit more for us?

Amber: Yeah. I think, so one of the big ones and you kind of spoke to this is just daily movement is am I daily moving my body? And I even think, am I in some exercise routine? Now, we can go into depth about putting together an effective exercise routine and one that is actually going to drive muscle growth or whatever goal you have. But that doesn’t really matter as much as do you have some sort of practice of disciplined movement of your body? And that’s going to be a foundational piece no matter what types of techniques or tools you want to use is, do I have some sort of foundation?

And now this is going to start to expose like you said, this is going to expose people’s weaknesses and a lot of women struggle with consistency when it comes to something like having some sort of daily movement practice. And that can be an opportunity to be able to address that first. Because if you struggle with consistency in one area of your life, you’re probably going to struggle in multiple areas. And so if we don’t address that consistency, it doesn’t matter if you start counting macros.

If you’re not consistent with whatever you’re going to do next, it’s not going to be effective. So noticing that about yourself is, do you struggle with consistency in whatever movement practice that you have implemented? And addressing that, again, before you start to add on that 20% at the top. So some sort of daily movement practice, or I would say a consistent movement practice, whatever that looks like for you, are you consistent with doing it?

Jody: And I’ll just share for our listeners, I’m 48 years old and I used to run marathons. And I loved a really intense aerobics class. And as I’ve gotten older and I don’t run marathons, my head is still like, what, I’m going to go for a walk, that’s not going to help.

Amber: That’s not going to do anything.

Jody: That’s not going to do anything. And I’m not even going to be sweating hardly because it’s so cold outside. But that’s what I mean by I have just been amazed at how just at a minimum I get 10,000 steps. And then the other thing I know you’re a big believer in this but strength training. And when I say strength training, I’m not, right now in my life I’m not in the gym lifting, power lifting heavy weights.

But just having, I have some weights at home that are heavy enough that lifting those consistently impacts my overall fitness and my body way more than all of those high intensity aerobics classes ever did. And I still go to those sometimes because they’re fun. Why did we not know this growing up in the 90s?

Amber: Oh my gosh, I just wish we could go back and just have weight training be a staple thing that women grew up doing because I think it would change everything. And hey, look, I taught group fitness classes for eight years. I taught Zumba, I taught body pump, I taught body combat. I taught all the things. I taught high fitness. I love a good aerobics class, I grew up on that. But I think about cardio, if you have cash and you just have cash sitting in your hand versus weight lifting is like investing that cash into the stock market and having it grow over time.

You get the benefit of cardio in the moment. You burn the calories right now and then that’s it.

Jody: You feel that high.

Amber: And you feel that high and you love it and it’s fun. You get the cardiovascular benefit, you get that right in that moment. The difference with weight lifting and this is why some people have a really hard time transitioning from cardio weight is that you don’t get the pay off right now. You don’t get the high for a lot of people. You don’t get the core burn. They look at their Apple watch and they’re like, “Freak, I only burned 100 calories doing that lifting. I burn 600 calories when I do high fitness. I’m going to go do high fitness because that works better.”

But in reality those 100, yes, you burn less calories in the moment but it’s investing that money over time. And what happens is as you build more muscle now you burn more calories every single day, all day of your life when you’re sitting reading a book, you’re burning more calories. And you’re depositing into your bank account for as you age. One of the most important health factors that can improve women’s health throughout their life is the amount of muscle mass that they are able to put onto their body.

Because as we age our muscle mass naturally declines. And what do you need muscle mass for? Literally everything you do in the day, getting up out of bed, sitting on the toilet, brushing your teeth. And the amount, I’m a nurse, so I worked in long term healthcare before I went into, I got my RN. And I saw women who could not physically get up off the commode or couldn’t physically get out of bed. And that is because muscle mass declines as we age.

And so one of the best things you can do for your health right now, I don’t care what age you are, if you’re 20, 40, 70, 90 is to start to lift weights. Because the more that we can counteract that natural muscle decline the healthier you’re going to be able to be. And the more you’re going to be able to do those activities of daily living that allow you to be independent as you age.

Jody: That’s awesome. Okay, so regular movement, what else, what else is at the foundation?

Amber: I mean the two big ones that I feel people know but they never want to take a look at are sleep and stress. Everybody knows that most of us could use more sleep and it’s such a low hanging fruit, but most of us just it feels hard to get more sleep and to prioritize that. But honestly, getting enough sleep. So here’s the thing that people don’t understand and maybe this will drive you guys to get more sleep. People don’t understand that our bodies only adapt to that, which is required of them.

So a lot of times people think that they go into the gym and they lift weights and that’s how they’re building muscle is the lifting of the weights, actually not how you build muscle. You build muscle by recovering from lifting weights. So there’s actually no muscle growth happening in the gym. All you’re doing actually is breaking down muscle. You’re creating microscopic tears in those muscle fibers and you’re actually breaking down the muscle.

Jody: Literally, yeah.

Amber: Literally breaking down the muscle, that’s what happens in the gym. And then what happens the next 24 hours is the most important because that’s when your body says, “Oh crap, there was these tears, there’s damage done to the muscle, we’ve got to go back and repair it. We’ve got to make it a little bit stronger this time so that it can withstand that next time.” If the body has to go through whatever it just went through, that workout, we need to make it a little stronger so that it can withstand it.

And so that recovery process, when your body’s actually going and repairing those microscopic tears is what makes you stronger. Which is why, the next time you go back to the gym, you’ve got to push a little bit harder because you’ve got to push past whatever you just did last time to create the same damage for then your body to come back and repair. And that cycle of damaging and repairing and then coming back and doing it over and over again is actually what makes you stronger. It’s actually what drives adaptation in your body.

Now, the thing I see so much is that people focus so much on what goes on in the gym and they forget what happens after the gym, that recovery process. And then they wonder why, hey, I’m going to the gym and I’m doing all this really hard workout but I’m not getting any stronger. And a lot of times is because they’re not actually taking that recovery process seriously. They’re overtraining. They’re not getting enough sleep and recovery in order for their body to go in and actually make their body stronger.

So if you want to get stronger in the gym your sleep is one of the best things that you can do to promote that adaptation in your body.

Jody: That’s awesome. A couple of years ago I started working with Brad Jensen who’s a mutual friend of ours. And I mentioned casually to my then, I think seven or eight year old son something about, “I’ve got to get to bed on time. I need to get enough sleep. I’m really focusing on my health and trying to lose a little weight and sleep is an important part of that.” And he goes, “Oh, well, you’re going to lose a lot of weight then because you’re always tired.” And I was like, “Well, I don’t think that’s exactly how it works.”

But I do love sleep, I’ve actually always been really good at getting enough sleep. I know a lot of people do struggle with that. I coach people on that a lot, trying to get themselves to go to bed earlier. I have never been able. And some people are like, “Well, I can do, I can function on five hours.” That has never been me. What else also though, when you say recovery period, what kinds of foods should we be eating? I know there’s not a one size fits all but after a good workout, what should I be eating?

Amber: Yeah. So a lot of people like to talk about nutrition timing around workouts. And again, I would put this at the 20%. So if you don’t have the movement pattern figured out, focus on that, who cares what you eat? Let’s focus on consistency there.

Jody: Yeah, so don’t worry about it at first but then eventually.

Amber: Don’t worry about it at first, but if you do have a consistent practice, I always eat at least 20 grams of carbs pre workout. That allows my body to be able to have quick access to glucose which is what’s going to be able to fuel me during my workout. So I’m having at least 20 to 30 grams of carbs, preferably really straight carbs. You don’t really want fat and even protein for most workouts, you don’t really need protein [crosstalk].

Jody: What do you eat? Give me an example.

Amber: So usually two things. These are the two things that I always eat pre workout. It’s either a banana or it’s either the fig bars from Costco. They’re such great sources of super dense carbs. So if you’re someone who are like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t even think.” Because I workout at 5:30 in the morning. So I get up and I go to the gym. And a lot of people tell me, “I can’t even imagine eating anything that early in the morning.” The fig bars are the size of two quarters but they have 20+ grams of carbs in it. So it’s a super-fast carb source.

So those are my two go-to’s, either it’s a banana or a fig bar. And then post workout you’re wanting to replenish your glycogen storages. So you’re wanting to get another at least 20 to 30 grams of carbs. And then this is where we do protein as well. So 20 to 30 grams of protein because now, again, remember, you just damaged all those muscle tissue. You now need those building blocks which are the amino acids found in protein to be able to go and do that repair process. So in general 20 grams of carbs pre workout, 20 to 30 grams of both carbs and protein post workout.

Again, we’re not wanting a lot of fat in either of those because fat slows the absorption process down. So trying to get those proteins and the carbs without a whole lot of fat is going to be beneficial for you. And then you go to your fat later on in the day.

Jody: Okay, cool. So movement and…

Amber: And sleep. And the last one is stress.

Jody: Stress, okay.

Amber: Again, one that everybody kind of knows about but a lot of people don’t actually want to look at in their life of how are they managing their stress. And stress comes into the recovery process as well. Something that a lot of people don’t understand is that our body does not segment out stress. Our body isn’t like, that’s relationship stress and that’s job stress and that’s gym stress. And it’s not like we have different buckets for each of it, our body just sees stress on the body.

And we have an ability to be able to work within a certain threshold of the amount of stress, but when we cross that threshold, our body’s ability to be able to recover, and again, this is why that stress recovery adaptation cycle is so important to understand. If we’re stressing the body in the gym, if we don’t go through that recovery process and we come back to the gym not completely recovered, we’re actually getting weaker every time that we go to the gym. And so our body sees stress.

Going and doing a weightlifting session is stress on the body. If you’re loading that on top of work stress and relationship stress and mental health stress and financial stress and all of these other things. Your body reaches its limit of ability to be able to recover effectively from the stress that you’re putting on your body. And so stress management is so important for a healthy mind and also for a healthy body. And so taking a really hard look at, hey, what are my stressors in my life? And we can’t get rid of them.

I’m not saying we need to all go be Buddhist monks and have no stress in our life. That’s not realistic, but how are you intentionally managing that stress? And a lot of the work that you do with your mind is a really great way to be able to manage that stress because yeah, you may have kids that have issues and it’s stressful for you. You can’t get rid of that experience, but when you can shift your thinking around it you can shift what you’re making it mean.

You can shift where you’re going in your mind. That can take what could be a stressful situation and you can manage that stress by actively how you’re managing your mind.

Jody: That’s powerful. I wonder too because I notice that a lot of times when we resist emotions, when we sort of push them away and sometimes we do that literally by avoiding them. Overeating is a common way that we avoid emotions. But it doesn’t have to be that, can just be a tightening against, a pushing away. And so I think there’s a fine balance between, for all my listeners when you hear Amber saying stress can impact your health negatively, that you have to be careful. Because once the stress comes up and we’re like, “Oh, no, Jody and Amber told me, I need to manage this.”

Now we’re resisting stress so there’s yes, doing thought work or finding practices that help you minimize your stress but also then when it does come what do you do with that? Do you know how to breathe and relax into it? And allow your body to process it in a healthy way so that it doesn’t escalate into anxiety. Anxiety’s just in some cases, anxiety can be a lot of things, but in many cases it’s just an escalated resisting of stress. We push it down like pushing that beachball under the water, it pops up, that’s anxiety.

Amber: Yes. This idea of stress is bad or negative emotion is bad and so I shouldn’t feel it. And then I feel bad when I feel it and then we get into this spiral of not only feeling bad but now I feel bad that I feel bad. That’s not what we’re talking about at all. It’s that ability to be in the circumstance, to be in the situation and to be able to process it and move through the tunnel, not avoid the tunnel, but move through the tunnel and be able to be with those emotions.

And the better you are at being able to experience negative emotions and work through them and feel those negative emotions the less, like you said, buffering you’ll be able to have. And I see tons of emotional heating in the women that I work with. And that’s often trying to avoid negative emotions and using food to be able to do that.

Jody: Awesome. Okay, so would you share with me, I’d love to hear because I know there’s all different theories and philosophies. What are your thoughts about the scale and should people? Again, I’m not trying to pigeonhole you into a one size fits all answer. But should we be weighing ourselves regularly? Is weight loss the wrong goal? I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Amber: Well, I always am really clear that weight loss and fat loss aren’t the same thing. And I think that blows a lot of women’s minds because we have been conditioned to think that weight loss is fat loss. And you can see how our relationship with the scale gets really messed up because we see the scale go up and we immediately make that assumption, I’ve gained fat. And then we see the scale go down and we immediately make the assumption, I’ve lost fat. And that often isn’t even the case because the scale doesn’t weigh fat. It doesn’t just weigh our fat.

It weighs our weight which includes everything. And specifically muscle, organ tissue, skin, fat and water is the big one. And so what I really love to help women understand is that fat loss and fat gain, muscle loss and muscle gain are all very slow processes. So any time you are seeing a big jump on the scale either up or down we’re talking water weight. You’re losing and gaining water weight because our bodies are mostly water. And water balance in our body is a very complex system.

And so just starting to understand one, weight loss and fat loss are not the same thing. And so when you’re walking around saying, “I want to lose weight.” I always love to correct people because I think it helps to be able to be really specific. Most of us want to lose fat. We’re not walking around being like, “You know what, I really want to lose muscle, I really want to lose organ tissue. I really just want to get rid of.” We’re not saying that. What we really mean is we want to lose fat.

And so understanding that concept can help us to shift our relationship with the scale because when we understand, hey, the scale isn’t a one-to-one measure of my success because it’s not a one-to-one measure of fat loss. And so I am not of the opinion that everybody should just toss the scale. I think that the scale is just a tool, it can give us some information, however, it is incomplete information. And so what I like to have my clients do is recognize the scale’s not bad or wrong, it’s just incomplete. It’s like looking at one data point and expecting it to tell you everything and it just doesn’t.

So you’re trying to give it a job that it never should have. So instead when we can put that into a bigger picture and we can pull other data points. So I’m really pushing my clients to say, “Hey, we’re not going to just look at the scale, it’s a data point. We’re also going to be looking at measurements. We’re also going to be looking at progress pictures. We’re also going to be looking at other non-scale victories. And we’re putting all of these data points together just like back when you did scatter plots.

If you just had one point, you could draw a line through that in a million different directions. But if you take all of these different data points and plot them out on a graph, well, now you start to get a trend. Now you start to see, okay, this is where I’m going. And we can use that information and that data to be able to guide us. So I think the scale can be a piece of the puzzle but we can’t let it be the whole puzzle.

And I think that’s where women get into trouble is when you make it the whole puzzle and you step on the scale and now you feel super terrible about yourself and you’re telling yourself it’s not working. When in reality you may just have a little bit more water onboard and now you’re making inaccurate assumptions based off of an incomplete data point. So the more data points you can gather the more it’s going to have a clear trend and the more we can follow that trend. It has information, it just doesn’t have all the information.

Jody: Yeah. And I will add for people that this is another area where, and I know Amber is very open to what’s going to work for her clients and I’m the same way. We’re not trying to say there’s a one way to do your health journey, but I do like to weigh myself and take pictures and measurements and all of those things. Because for me I don’t have as much drama around the scale as I do around photos and even measurements. I feel like the measurements don’t change as quickly as the scale.

Amber: That’s because it’s slow, because fat loss and fat gain is slow, [crosstalk] is so helpful.

Jody: These measurements are not changing at all but the scale’s gone down a little. But this is when we were talking in the beginning about how this is such an opportunity for personal growth. This is an example of where I like to notice what comes up for me, notice my impatience around it. And I don’t get mad and tell myself I shouldn’t be thinking that or push it away. I just, I’m like, “No.” There’s still some of that.” I still have some work to do there around what if my body is going to be this, whatever part I’m measuring.

What if my thigh is going to be this measurement until the day I die? That’s okay, Jody. All of you is lovable. And this doesn’t ultimately matter in the end at all. So I get to do that work of loving my body as I’m focusing on nutrition and health. And that’s what we’re talking about when Amber and I say this can help with your personal development. It increases your ability to be disciplined, your ability to follow through on what you said you were going to do. And then your ability to notice when you’re full of judgment or frustration or you’re impatient.

And all of that is valuable to work on and will impact so many areas of your life in the end.

Amber: I think we are really good as humans at not seeing our blind spots. And we’re really good at being like, “Yeah, I did that work, I’m good. I love my body.” I fixed it. I fixed it. I’m okay.

Jody: I’m good now.

Amber: I’m good now. And so that’s what I mean by these different areas. I see entrepreneurship the same way. I see our marital relationships, I see parenting, I see fitness as these places where we get pressured into seeing, I still have work to do here. I thought that I was really body confident and there’s still work for me to do here. Or I thought that I was able to really maintain my composure and then I blow off at my kids. And I’m like, “There’s still work for me to do here.”

So I think as humans we’re really good at not seeing that. And these places that pressure you to show that to you, it’s like here’s something to work on. Here’s something that you still can have some growth on. And I have for sure had those experiences where I’m like, “I thought this was all taken care of. I guess there’s still more for me to practice.” There’s more growth to be had.

Jody: That’s so good. Any other, maybe if there’s one more you wouldn’t mind sharing, myths or areas of confusion when it comes to this whole area of health and fitness. I mean there’s so many, but I love what you just shared about fat loss and muscle loss or weight loss are not the same.

Amber: Yeah. I mean it’s such a revolutionary topic.

Jody: And that it’s a slow process. It sounds like a discouraging thought but that to me brings me so much peace, it’s a slow process.

Amber: Yeah. So any time you see a jump on the scale up or down, you can kind of calm your mind down and just realize, that’s water swings. Fat loss does not jump. It does not jump up and it does not jump down, there’s no jumping with fat loss or muscle loss. And yeah, it’s a slow process but that can help with that relationship with the scale.

Jody: Yeah, that’s so good.

Amber: I mean I think we’ve talked a lot about the realm of exercise. I think there are plenty of myths and understanding that’s important for people to get and grasp, with nutrition. I mean I think one that I would love to say is kind of dying but I think there are still people out there who really struggle with it is this idea of the demonization of carbohydrates or the demonization of fat. And I still get women who when we start talking about the different macronutrients, they look at their carbohydrate intake and they’re like, “That’s too much. I can’t eat that many carbs.”

This idea that somehow carbohydrates are linked to fat gain or fat is linked to fat gain. And we have this relationship again, it makes total sense, the 90s were big, fat demonization. I remember my mom, I have this funny story about my mom, she was super into fitness as well. And it was the fat craze and so we stopped having butter and we started having margarine. And she started cooking with half apple sauce and half margarine.

Jody: Oil or whatever, yeah.

Amber: Yeah. And I remember one time she decided to make a pie crust with apple sauce instead of the fat. And she brings out this pie, there’s seven of us so she brings it to the table. And we go through and try to cut the pie and it was like rubber. You literally couldn’t even cut the pie crust.

Jody: You’re like, “We’re not eating this.”

Amber: Okay, so just so you guys know, do not try to make a pie crust with apple sauce because it does not work.

Jody: You need the Crisco in there.

Amber: You need the fat in there for it to actually be a pie crust, but I mean so we come by it, honestly, we come by that fear of carbohydrates and that fear of fat, honestly, the 90s were fat phobia. And then we moved into the low carb craze.

Jody: Carb phobia, yeah.

Amber: Carb phobia and so I still see women who continue to think that carbs and fat are going to make them fat. And I think when we can start to understand. So just a really quick brief synopsis of macros. Everybody knows what calories are, they’re what give our bodies fuel and energy from the food that we eat. But a lot of people don’t understand that calories are broken up into three different types. There’s carbohydrates, fats and protein.

And the reason that’s important to understand is because you need all of it. You need all of it. You need carbohydrates. They do something different in your body than fats do. And fat does something different in your body than protein does. They all have a specific role in your body. It’s like a car and you have to have gas and you have to have radiator fluid and you have to have windshield wiper fluid. Yes, they all work to make your car run but if you don’t have enough gas it doesn’t matter how much radiator fluid you have. It’s still not going to work.

And it’s the same thing with the macronutrients, carbohydrates are really our body’s primary source of energy. Fats are really important for hormone production and really important for brain fuel as well. And protein is really important for repairing tissue all throughout your body, not just your muscles but all of the tissues and the cell membranes of your body. And so you have to have enough of each of those different types of macronutrients. And if we have imbalances it’s just like again, if you have enough radiator fluid but not enough gas, your body’s not going to run well.

It’s the same thing, you have enough carbs and not enough protein, your body’s not going to run well. And so just understanding that you need some of all of it. You don’t have to be scared of carbs, they have a purpose. You don’t have to be scared of fat, it has a purpose. You don’t have to be scared of protein, it has a purpose and we need a little bit of all of it to help our bodies run well. And so hopefully that can start to dispel some of that fear that if I eat carbs I’m going to get fat. If I eat fat I’m going to get fat. That’s not how it works.

Jody: I love that. And protein, I know for many of us it’s the hardest thing to figure out, how am I going to get more protein in. Would you share with us some of your favorite protein sources?

Amber: Yeah. So first of all I find when people come to macro counting they tend to, I call it bringing the dieter mentality into macro counting. They’ve gone through lots of diets in their life, they know how diets work. You’re told what to do and then you have to follow it. And that’s how you get results. And if you don’t do it then you’re not going to get it. That’s the mentality that we bring and a lot of people bring that mentality with them into macro counting. And so they get into macro counting and they have their macros set, whether someone sets them or they set their own.

And they are looking at this protein number and they’re like, “How the heck am I going to eat 130 grams of protein?” Because last week they ate 40 grams of protein a day. And so then people start to beat themselves up and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t ever hit this, it’s too hard.” They try, they struggle and then they give up. And then they say, “Well, macro counting doesn’t work for me.” And they toss in the towel. So the first thing that I always love to tell people is that macro counting is not a diet. It is not a one size fits all. It is not, this is the only way to do it.

It is not you have to eat one gram of protein or it’s not going to work, or a pound of body weight or it’s not going to work. And instead I love to push women to say, and this is why one of the first things I always do with my clients, take one week of your normal eating and track it. See how much protein you’ve been eating. See how many calories you’ve been eating because people want to jump in and they want to set their macros without understanding where they have been and then they make it too hard on themselves.

So once you know about how much protein you’ve been eating, let’s increase it.

Jody: Just a baby step.

Amber: Yeah. Let’s not maybe jump to 130 grams of protein if you were eating 40 grams of protein last week. So that’s my first thing is if you’re coming into this and you’re just getting started and you’re getting really overwhelmed with your protein goal, my guess is it’s probably too high to start with, so pull it back. So that’s my first thing.

But in terms of protein sources, one of the best ways that you can get more protein into your diet is to, again, go back to the tracking for a week. Go look at what protein sources you ate last week in just a normal day of eating and just increase your portion size. So if you had a turkey sandwich and it had three slices of turkey on it, double it.

Jody: Six, yeah.

Amber: So put six on it this week. So that’s one of my favorite hacks for increasing the amount of protein you’re eating because it doesn’t require you to eat any new foods. It doesn’t require you to go get any new food at the grocery store. Doesn’t require you to try and force feed yourself food that you don’t want to eat. You’re literally just taking whatever you ate last week and you’re just doubling the portion size. If you ate three ounces of chicken, eat six ounces of chicken. So that’s number one.

And then two, just going through and starting, I mean you can find Google, protein sources and Dr. Google will give you all of the list of protein.

Jody: And I think people just think, meat. Most of my protein doesn’t even come from meat really.

Amber: Right. Well, and yeah, people who are vegetarian, people who are vegan are always like, “What do I eat?” Go to Google, print out a sheet and start crossing out things you don’t want to eat and putting stars next to things that you don’t want to eat and then start including them in your diet. You don’t have to eat cottage cheese if you don’t like cottage cheese. You don’t have to eat yogurt if you don’t like yogurt. But there are lots and lots of protein sources. So just go through and star the ones you want to try, start to include those into your diet.

And my last protein hack is preplanning your food. This takes a little bit of work, I recognize that, so maybe it’s not the first thing that you do. But if you can sit down the night before and think through your day and even log it into whatever tracking app you’re using. And then look at how much protein you’re getting and seeing where you need to insert more protein. It’s a jumpstart for your next day.

It’s, I’m now jumping into this next day prepared to be able to be successful instead of crossing my fingers and toes going into the next day and just hoping that I’m going to end up with the amount of protein that I want to hit.

Jody: Okay, that’s such good advice. And I’ll just throw in that I recently saw on your Instagram page. I think you were like, “Just take Greek yogurt, put a scoop of protein powder in, mix it up.” I’ve been doing that almost every day.

Amber: 40 grams of protein.

Jody: And if you have a good chocolate protein powder or something, it’s a nice little treat. And anyway, I do that a lot at the end of the day when I realize I still need some protein.

Amber: 40 grams of protein at the end of the day.

Jody: 40 grams in one sitting, what am I going to eat.

Amber: And you’re like, “I don’t want to eat this plain egg white.”

Jody: Right. I don’t want to eat just egg whites. I do eat a lot of eggs though, I like eggs. I like cottage cheese. Anyway, like you said, go to Google and everybody, I feel it’s one of the things that a lot of people, anyway in the fitness industry agree upon, is that everyone needs more protein. So there is usually, whoever you like to follow or wherever you want to go, you’re going to find people offering protein tips.

Amber: Yeah, protein tips, yeah.

Jody: Yeah. Okay, Well, Amber, thank you so much. This has been such a fascinating conversation and so useful. For anybody, it’s kind of that time of year where New Year’s resolutions have dropped off. And now we’re just like, “Okay, I’m probably not going to overachieve everything this year but let’s just take some baby steps to get healthier, to feel better, to have more energy, to like you said, age more gracefully. Where can people go to learn more from you?

Amber: Yeah. Well, if you’re listening to this I assume you listen to podcasts. So my podcast is Biceps After Babies Radio. And I talk a lot about health and fitness, macro counting, weightlifting there. And then I’m most active over on Instagram, so come to Biceps After Babies.

Jody: Yeah, Biceps After Babies. How about that, you all? Alright.

Amber: [Crosstalk] biceps after your babies.

Jody: I mean that’s when I’m going to get mine. How about when you’re about to have grandkids?

Amber: Yeah.

Jody: Biceps then too.

Amber: It’s never too late.

Jody: Never too late. Alright, thanks so much, Amber.

Amber: Thanks, Jody.

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I hope you never publicly make a mistake, and maybe you never will. But just in case you’re human and sometimes drop the ball, this week, I’m telling you how I think about messing up, and what I do to handle it.

I recently made a public mistake within my membership where I executed something that wasn’t of the highest quality and didn’t provide the experience I wanted for my members. Most of the time, the mistakes I make happen behind the scenes and only affect me or my team, but occasionally, I mess up publicly.

Mistakes are inevitable, and I will continue to mess up, sometimes publicly. If you’re often tempted to blame or find your defenses shoot up when you make a mistake, listen in. I’m showing you what to do when you mess up publicly, and why making a mistake is an opportunity to build more trust with your clients.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What’s happening if you feel defensive about a mistake you’ve made. * The difference between owning a mistake and blaming it on someone or something else. * Why messing up is an opportunity to build extra trust with your clients. * What to do when you mess up publicly.

Mentioned on the Show:

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I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: When You Mess Up Publicly.

Hey there everybody. So I want to talk to my entrepreneur friends in our special Entre-Talk Monday episodes that we do here about when you make a mistake. And maybe you will never make a mistake and I hope so. I hope you will never publicly anyway make a mistake. But just in case you’re human and you make mistakes sometimes publicly, I want to talk to you about how I think about it and how I like to handle it on the backend. And of course I’m sharing this episode because I recently made a pretty public mistake, somewhat public mistake within my membership.

I sort of executed something in a way that wasn’t the highest quality and didn’t provide exactly the experience that I like to provide to my Be Bold members who I love and value and appreciate. And I’m not going to go into the details about what it was because it’s not really relevant and it involves other people. And I just don’t want to make anybody uncomfortable but I will just say that it was me not thoroughly communicating, that’s why this mistake happened.

Now, I make mistakes all the time, I really do but most of them are mistakes that I make behind the scenes that really only affect me or my team or maybe we lose money or it’s wasted time you might say or something like that. So those kinds of things happen all the time but occasionally something like this happens and I want to say that when you realize oops, I sort of dropped the ball there and especially if it’s public like this was. It’s really tempting for me anyway to want to go to blame.

I want to push it, I want to be like, “It wasn’t my fault.” No. Immediately, defenses go up. Like no, not me, I didn’t do that wrong. Somebody else is the reason this went wrong . And so I just notice that, if I have that resistance and that defensiveness, that it means a part of me is triggered by somebody pointing this out. And therefore part of me at least agrees. Now, in this particular example what I decided to do was to own the mistake because I do think it was 99% me anyway. There may be 1% that involves other people, but 99% of it was me, it really was.

Like I said, it was me not communicating clearly, not being thorough enough in some preparation that was necessary. So what do you do when that happens? Well, of course you want to own it and apologize. That’s the only option as far as I can see. I mean I guess the other option is hide, blame someone else, pretend it didn’t happen but that usually doesn’t go well in the long run or even in the short run. But that often creates a lot of tension and animosity and disgruntled dissatisfied customers. So what do you do when you own it, what is the difference?

Well, some people still might be upset. And here’s what’s challenging. Do you go out in ‘public’ and say to the people that were impacted. Do you bring it up and risk that there might be a whole bunch of people who didn’t even notice that you’d done that or hadn’t considered it to be a mistake in the first place who now are going to be like, “Oh yeah, that wasn’t great, Jody Moore, what you did there.” That’s the risk is wait a second, there might only be a handful of people who even noticed or who even think that it was wrong.

And if I put it out there and say, “You guys, I messed up, I’m so sorry.” Then we bring it to the attention of a much broader percentage of the people. And that is something that we pause and consider. But you have to go with your gut on what feels right. And I decided what felt right to me was to make a statement to the group that was impacted and say, “You know what, I totally messed up, I’m so sorry. That wasn’t me at my best. I’m going to commit to try to do a lot better going forward and I just want to apologize.” And just own it.

So that is what I did, for those of you in Be Bold, today is March 13th and in today’s Monday Magic you’ll hear my apology so you will know what I’m talking about if you’re in Be Bold. I don’t know that I definitely didn’t do a perfect job on the apology. That’s the thing is, am I even going to get the apology right or am I going to say that wrong now? I probably said some things wrong. I didn’t mean to. I did the best I could but I decided to just go, “This is on me. I’m so sorry. I’m going to commit to doing better going forward.”

Now, here’s the other thing I want to tell you is that doing that to me, cleans up all of my shame because I do, I have shame about it when I’m like, “Oh, I messed up. Shit, I did that wrong.” I totally have that shame feeling about it. But when I own it instead of deflecting it, when I just admit out loud because that’s what deflates shame. Making it public, bringing it out of hiding is the remedy, the solution for shame. So in an appropriate way I bring it out of hiding and by apologizing and owning that I messed up. And I don’t make excuses for it.

I don’t go, “You know, I had a really long week, I’m really sorry. I’m just really tired right now.” I just go, “No, you know what, that was not me at my best. And even if after that, even if I have people that are like, “Well, I’m mad at Jody Moore and I’m leaving your program”, or whatever. Or, “I want to go talk about it online how mad I am”, whatever people decide to do. I am going to feel really good about it. I’m okay with that because all I can do is try to do better when I make a mistake. That’s it, all I can do is what now, who do I want to be now? Okay, I messed up, who do I want to be now?

I want to be the person who owns it and apologizes. And if people aren’t okay with that, bless their hearts, they can move on because I probably will, I for sure will make mistakes again. I will try not to. I probably won’t make that mistake again now that I’ve learned my lesson but I will make other mistakes again, I will.

And here’s what I want to say too, though is I used to, when I worked in corporate I did a lot of training. I mostly trained salespeople but for a while there I got to also train people who are in customer service. And so I got to study what all the experts teach about customer service and customer support and how to take care of your customers. And one of the things I remember learning that I thought was so powerful was that there was a study done when businesses make mistakes and our trust level of those businesses.

They studied customer and client trust. And what the study found was that customers trust a business who has made a mistake and then handled it well more than they trust a business that they’ve never had a mistake happen with. Isn’t that crazy to think about? If I, let’s say I go to a restaurant and they mess up my meal, they get it wrong and I say, “Hey, this isn’t what I ordered.” And they say, “Oh, my gosh. We’re so sorry, you know what, we’ll take it back, we’ll bring your new food right away. And in fact we’re going to give you dessert for free”, or whatever.

If they take care of me then I like that restaurant even more and trust that restaurant even more than a restaurant I’ve been to that’s never messed up my meal. That’s interesting. Why is that? It’s because a part of us knows that there is no such thing as no mistakes. We know that mistakes are inevitable at some point. And we’re actually really okay with mistakes when it’s handled with kindness and when people just own it and especially if it feels like they go above and beyond to take care of you.

But at the very least if they own it and then do what they can to make it right, then we trust them. But if we’ve never seen them make a mistake we don’t know how they’re going to handle it when they do. And it’s not an if, it’s a when. Everyone makes mistakes at some point. People make mistakes, businesses make mistakes, that’s the way of it. So sometimes when I have a mistake like that I remind myself, alright, well, this is an opportunity for me to show people how do I handle it when I mess up, that’s it.

And some people may not like it. Some people may think I handled it the wrong way but as long as I feel like I handled it to the best of my ability I can feel good about it and move on. And I do think that that invites kindness. When you choose to try to be kind, you invite more kindness into your life. You attract people who are forgiving when you’re honest and you can drop your pride or your shame or your ego or whatever it is. And when you can just handle things as best you can you attract other people who are like that and who are also kind and forgiving.

We have, I will say this, the most kind, loving people in Be Bold. I mean I didn’t get anybody that was upset with me over the mistake. I had some people somewhat confused. I had some people bring it to my attention but I didn’t get anybody that was really upset and angry and acting ridiculous about it. In fact, a lot of people didn’t think it was a mistake at all. But the ones that did were so kind and lovely about it.

And I just think that we’re trying to put goodness out in the world and we’re trying to be authentic and real and so luckily we attract people who are also very kind and understanding. So there you go, when you mess up publicly it’s your opportunity to build extra trust with your clients or customers. Use it as such. Most people are very forgiving and you will recover. And then one day you’ll make another mistake but probably not that same one at least.

Alright, you guys are amazing. Thanks for joining me for Entre-Talk. I’ll see you next time. And if you haven’t grabbed my free training yet by the way, make sure you head to jodysfreetraining.com. jodysfreetraining.com, it’s totally free. It will tell you how I went from no idea what I was doing to a million dollar coaching practice and you can just take it and run with it. I hope you do. Alright, I’ll see you next time. Bye.

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I’ve had a lot of experience in sales over my lifetime, and it has always been something that’s fascinated me. One of the things I found most useful when I was a salesperson was the idea that we should focus on fleshing out someone’s motivation as they weighed the cost and benefits associated with their decision.

This was a great tactic that worked effectively and makes a lot of sense. However, I was recently on the consumer end of a sales conversation when I realized that relying heavily on motivation actually doesn’t help me achieve my goals. So, what does? Being playful about it.

If you want to feel lighter and more inspired about anything you want to achieve, create, or change in your life, listen in. You’ll hear what happens when you get on the rollercoaster of motivation, why achieving a goal won’t actually make you happier, and why playfulness is the key to long-term sustainable goal achievement.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What rational self-interest theory entails. * Why motivation isn’t what helps me achieve my goals. * What happens when you need to use motivation to work toward your goals. * The value of staying playful about your goals. * How to make the pursuit of your goals playful.

Mentioned on the Show:

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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 401, Goal Playfulness.

Hey, everybody, we’re going to talk about goals today. Who’s excited? Now, listen, I’m not here to tell you that you should have a goal and make you feel bad about your goal. I want to do the opposite. I want you to feel more inspired and lighter and easier about anything that you want to achieve or create or change about yourself or about your life.

And I want to preface by saying that there is a lot happening in my house this week. We’ve got a painter here painting some of the interiors of our house. And then we’re getting new carpet laid at the same time so it’s a little loud and a little chaotic. Hopefully that doesn’t distract us here on the podcast but it might. We’ll just see.

Okay, so anyway I want to talk about goal playfulness and I want to begin by explaining that I have a lot of experience in sales. I’ve had many different sales jobs in my day. And I’ve always been fascinated by sales because it’s a social science. It’s a study of human behavior and what motivates us as human beings. And so I always love learning more about that. So I’ve read a lot of books on sales. I’ve studied a lot about it.

And one of the things that I was taught that I found to be really useful as a salesperson back in the day was to keep in mind, rational self-interest theory. So rational self-interest theory says that human beings make decisions based on a cost benefit analysis. And we do this usually unconsciously. Sometimes we consciously sit down and make a list of pros and cons on a piece of paper but most of the time we do it without even realizing it very quickly in our heads.

We weigh out costs and benefits and we make decisions that have the most benefit and the least cost associated. So let’s say I’m driving to work and I really want to stop and get myself a drink before I go to work but I’m running a little late or I have just enough time to get to work on time. I may not make it on time if I stop and get my drink but I really want my drink, not going to be able to leave work until lunchtime to get it. And so what we do is we quickly in our minds weigh out the costs and benefits.

So if I’m a little late to work, first of all will anyone even notice? And if they do, will I be in trouble really? Will my boss just remind me I need to be on time? Or will it be a more severe punishment? And will the benefit of having my drink with me to get me through the morning outweigh the little bit of guilt I might feel if my boss even notices? Or could I sneak in and he or she may not even notice and I don’t get in trouble at all and now I have my drink.

So you see how we very quickly weigh out costs and benefits and we make decisions accordingly as human beings. This is rational self-interest theory. Rational self-interest theory would say that we’re always looking out for our own self-interest. And you might say, “Well, what about when we’re serving, what about Mother Teresa?” Certainly she didn’t just have her own interest in mind. And rational self-interest theory would say, “Well, she did. It’s just that her goals were to serve others that made her feel good serving others. Or that’s what she chose to do so that was still her interest.”

Anyway it gets complicated but I guess my point I’m making is that we can poke holes in rational self-interest theory. I’m not an extremist about it saying that we’re always just looking out for our own best interest. But I think this idea that we constantly weigh costs and benefits and make decisions accordingly is pretty useful to consider especially if you’re a salesperson. So if I’m selling something then I’m trying to find potential buyers who would find the benefit to outweigh the cost.

Who would say, “Yes, I want what you offer, I want this product or service etc. And I want what that would provide for me, what changes I think that would help me make in my life.”

Like when I used to sell treadmills, let’s just use that as an example. I sold treadmills over the phone and so I would talk to people and I was looking for the people who really wanted a treadmill in order to get some exercise in and not have to leave their house. And the benefit of having the convenience of a treadmill in their house and what that would do for their long term health and maybe their confidence and maybe how it might change the body etc.

We need that to outweigh the cost, meaning first of all the price of the treadmill. But there’s also the cost of the inconvenience of getting the treadmill to my house and getting it set up. And then there’s the cost of the pain of having to be on the treadmill. The exercising in and of itself is somewhat of a cost because it’s somewhat uncomfortable. It takes up our time. There is a time cost involved.

So I am trying to as a salesperson really speak to the benefits and remind your rational brain of the benefits so that those benefits will outweigh the cost. So you’ll be willing to make the decision to get the treadmill in the end. Are you with me so far? Okay, I know you’re like, “Why are we talking about sales? I’m not a salesperson.” Stay with me. I promise I’m going somewhere with this.

So if you’re selling something that’s very expensive financially and especially if it’s going to maybe cost a lot of money and a lot of time and maybe it’s really scary for people. Which I have sold things like this, when I sold college degree programs. I sold college degrees at the University of Phoenix. So these were working adults typically who want to earn or finish a college degree but they have families and jobs and things and they don’t want to quit their job and go to a traditional school so they could go to night school or online school.

And they could earn or finish a college degree in a reasonable amount of time in this format, but it was going to cost money. It was going to take up time because not only would they be going to class once a week they would have homework, studying to do. And a lot of them were nervous about it. Maybe they hadn’t been very serious students in the past or hadn’t been successful in school and they were nervous about am I really going to be able to fit it in? Am I going to be overwhelmed? Because these are busy people with a lot going on.

So there’s a lot of cost there that I have to overcome. So the way I was trained as a salesperson was to really flush out their motivation. What is the reason why they want their degree? What will it do for them? Does not having it prevent them from getting a promotion for example? In a lot of companies there are job descriptions that say you cannot even apply for this manager role or director role or whatever the promotion is if you don’t have a college degree. So for many of the students I talked to it was, I can’t move up in my company, I can’t make more money without this degree.

So that’s some pretty strong motivation because they’re very limited without it. So I was trying to as a salesperson, the way I was trained was I needed to really flush out their motivation. What would it be like for you to have that promotion? How are you going to feel when you get that new job? What are you going to do with the extra money? How is that going to benefit your family? How are you going to feel when you’re finally taking your family on that vacation that you’ve always wanted to take them on?

How is it going to feel when you’re at graduation and your kids see that you accomplished this amazing goal? So I don’t mean this, we’re not trying to trick anyone. We’re just trying to flush out, is it true? If they were like, “No. I don’t really know. I don’t really care if I get it, it’s not that big of a deal. I can still move up without it.” Then traditionally, according to the way I was originally taught, that would be a tougher sale to make.

That’s a tougher sell because there is going to be a significant amount of money. There is going to be a significant amount of time and sacrifice. And if they don’t have enough of a benefit, enough of a motivation to counter that, it might be a tough sell. That’s the way I always thought about goals and decisions comes from my sales background, it made a lot of sense. It seemed to resonate with people and yet I kind of want to push back on that now.

So this was why I wanted to record this episode because recently I’ve had several experiences where I have been the one on the customer or client or consumer end of these types of conversations. I have been looking into the possibility of purchasing some kind of a program or course or hiring a coach or a mentor or somebody to help me achieve a goal or to help me accomplish something that I want in my life or in my business or for my health, etc.

So I do feel bad for people that have to try to sell me things because I’ve just done it so much and I’ve seen so many different versions of sales that I know exactly what they’re doing. I can kind of read between the lines and I can hear and see the sales training in what they’re saying. And not that they’re doing it wrong but it’s just like when you’re – I’m sure if you’re a teacher and you’ve been trained as a teacher and then you go to a class and you see somebody teach then all you notice is where they’re sort of doing it wrong.

I remember this when I waited tables too. I learned how to wait tables and then when I would go out to eat I was like, “The server, I can tell is behind or struggling or whatever.” So once you learn something then when you are on the other side of it you just view it differently and that’s how I am in sales interactions. I just sort of view it differently. But these couple of experiences that I’ve had recently and I’ll give an example in a minute but they have been somewhat expensive purchases, multiple thousands of dollars for these programs or courses or things I’ve been considering signing up for and things that would take time.

And so these salespeople keep doing exactly what I used to do, which is trying to flush out my motivation. For example I was looking at hiring someone that helps with public speaking, this public speaking program. And they were like, “Okay, so when you’re on that stage giving the talk, how is it going to feel?” And I was like, “Cool. It’s going to be cool.” But I didn’t have super strong motivation. They kept trying to find it, I noticed them.

And again I have been them so I know exactly what they were trying to do. And I know how challenging that is. They’re like, “Well, if you don’t, if you’re not able to give these talks, you’re not able to develop in this way, how is that going to limit your business?” And my honest answer was, “It won’t. I mean I’ll be fine. I’ll figure out something else.” There’s a lot of different ways to grow my business. There’s a lot of ways I can serve people the way I want to. There’s a lot of ways to get my message out.

So it’s not going to be the end of the world, honestly, if I don’t do this or I don’t achieve this milestone or goal. So then they would try another angle like, “How long have you been thinking about wanting to do this?” I’m like, “I just saw your ad yesterday actually and thought that sounds interesting, let’s see what that’s about.” So what I realized was I don’t have really strong motivation and that doesn’t mean I’m not going to do it, it didn’t.

For me I actually already knew I wanted to purchase this particular program, the public speaking option. And I even said to them, “I totally appreciate what you’re trying to do here but let me just tell you that I have learned finally now that I’m 48 years old. I’ve learned over the last little while that having really heavy motivation like that actually doesn’t help me achieve my goals.” It might help me get started. It might help me purchase the thing, sign up for the gym, sign up for the course, sign up for the school or the class or the coach or whatever.

But then I often want to quit when it’s that heavy. If I think everything depends on this, if I think this is, finally I’m going to be happy. Finally I’m going to feel confident. And once I achieve this then I’ll be fulfilled, then I’ll be successful, then I’ll approve of myself. And if I don’t I’ll probably never be able to grow and progress. You feel the heaviness around this? I realized over the last five to eight years as I’ve studied coaching that that kind of heavy motivation is actually not useful for me and probably for most people.

Because it might get us started but it’s too hard to carry in the long run. And what it does more than anything is put us on a rollercoaster. We get on a rollercoaster and in fact when I used to train salespeople we literally talked about the rollercoaster of motivation. And I talked about, you need to prepare your customer for the rollercoaster that they’re going to get on. You need to explain to them, “Listen, you’re going to feel really excited sometimes and really motivated and really determined.” Can any of you relate to this with your goals?

You’re going to be like, “I’m all in on this. I’m totally committed. That’s it, I’m going to eat healthy. I’m going to go to bed early. I’m going to read my scriptures every day”, whatever the goal is, you’re all in. And that’s great except that that means sometime down the road you’re going to be at the bottom of the rollercoaster. If you’re at the top of the rollercoaster then you have to come down at some point and the bottom is so discouraging and overwhelming and it feels like this is hard, what’s the matter with me? Why can’t I do it or this isn’t working. I’m never going to figure it out.

If you’ve got to go up then you’re going to have to come down. And so again what we used to do for customers and clients in different jobs I’ve had is just prepare them. That might happen and that’s okay. And you can call me. We can talk through it and nothing’s wrong and stuff like that. But what I’m realizing now is we could just not get on that rollercoaster. That’s an option. We could just opt out of the rollercoaster. We’re still going to be humans. We’re still going to have little ups and downs. I call it rolling hills rather than a rollercoaster.

We’re still going to have times when we’re more committed than others and times when it’s easier to think positively and harder to think positively, but if you don’t make everything dependent on whether or not you achieve this goal then you don’t get on the rollercoaster, you don’t. So I had this experience again just yesterday which is what prompted me to want to record this episode is I got an ad in my Instagram. First thing in the morning, I wake up, I opened up Instagram which is a bad idea. Don’t do that by the way.

But anyway I did and I see an ad for a personal trainer kind of situation, I couldn’t tell if it was a gym or trainer. Anyway it says, ‘Looking for women who want to get in shape, build muscle, tone their bodies in this six week trial’, thing, whatever. And it was for my local area. It was like looking for women in this area so it spoke to me. So it said Coeur d’Alene, which is the town right next door to me. Women in the Coeur d’Alene area, who want to get in shape. I was like, what, that’s me.

So it was specific, because of the location made me think, not just anywhere in the world, for some reason that caught my attention. It had a great image of a woman with a super toned body. And just a six week, it sounded like kind of maybe that’s something I should try. Okay, so I click on the thing, the next thing you know I fill out a form and then I get a text and the guy wants to meet with me. And he’s like, “Let’s do a consultation or something.” And I’m like, “Alright.”

So by the end of the day I find myself in Coeur d’Alene meeting with this super nice guy by the way. So he starts asking me the usual questions that you should ask, a good salesperson should ask these things like, “What are your goals? What have you tried before that’s worked and what hasn’t worked and why now, why is this the right time?” And all those things. And he’s trying to get over all my motivation.

He’s asking me like, “Well, what else would it do for you if you toned up the way you want to and lost the 10 or so pounds that you want to lose of body fat and made exercise an easy regular part of your schedule?” And all the things I told him. He’s like, “How would that feel?” And he was trying to get deeper motivation which I can totally appreciate. I know why. And I said to him, “You know what, that would be cool, it would be. And also it’ll be fine if I don’t, it really would.”

I like my body just fine. And I would love to change my body a little bit but I could live in this body forever and it wouldn’t be a problem. And I could change it and that would be kind of cool. Honestly, I just kind of like to see what I’m capable of. I like to push myself and challenge myself and I like to keep growing and evolving and this is a healthy way to do that. I don’t want to challenge myself to see how good I can get at hacking other people’s Instagram accounts.

I want to challenge myself in what I think are useful ways where I contribute something valuable to the world or improve myself, in this case it would be my physical health and some of my habits and routines. I told him, I’m like, “I get what you’re trying to do here but I don’t have heavy motivation.” I’m just really playful about it. And that is how I tend to achieve my goals the best is by staying playful about it by knowing I could do this and it will be cool. I am capable of it and it will be hard.

It will push me and challenge me, okay, let’s just see what we could do. Wouldn’t it be kind of cool to do it? And also if I don’t do it, that’s fine really, I promise, it’s fine. It’s not a big deal. And again, this guy was so cool and nice. And he was like, “That’s so cool. I love where your head is at, I think that’s a really healthy place to be about it.” But he probably doesn’t usually hear that. He hears people go, “I just can’t get the weight off. I’ve never been able to.” And they’re so discouraged and overwhelmed and that’s fine too. He can really help people in that situation.

But what I have discovered and I want to offer to you is that what if it really is all okay? What if you really don’t need to achieve or change anything in order to be a complete, lovable, worthy, amazing human? You really don’t. And you don’t need to change something in order to feel better about yourself. Changing things, achieving goals isn’t actually going to make you happier, it’s not. And that might sound like bad news but it’s not, it’s the best news because it means you can actually just be happier right now if you want to.

And then pursuing those goals becomes playful because I don’t know anyone that’s perfect at it when we start on the journey of trying to achieve something, growing your business, losing weight, whatever it is. I don’t know anyone that’s perfectly consistent at it all the time. And if you’re going to get on the rollercoaster, that’s exhausting after a while, the ups and the downs get pretty old and that is why we end up quitting. Especially because when we’re down it’s really hard to come back up again.

But if you’re just on some rolling hills and it’s kind of easier at times than others and it’s cool when something works but it’s also kind of a bummer when it doesn’t but it’s not that big of a deal. This is the healthiest I have found for me anyway, maybe I’m usual in this way but I would offer you to try it out. It’s the healthiest way to pursue a goal is through playfulness. It’s also though, I will say this, a little bit less interesting because it’s less dramatic. It’s one step at a time.

So as you do achieve things you don’t get the high anymore of whoa, that was amazing, I can’t believe I did that, look what I did. You don’t get that kind of a high, but I’m okay with that because it means I also don’t get the devastating low. So how do you get your dopamine hits, how do you get your joy then? You get it in tiny little drops along the way. Instead of big, concentrated amounts when you achieve something, you just be proud of yourself for trying. You just be proud of yourself for the little improvement or change that you made. You just congratulate yourself and thank yourself for doing a little bit even if you did it imperfectly.

And those little, tiny hits of your own approval and small wins that you’ll have along the way are enough, honestly. It’s a more sustainable way to live, I’ve found. And you can achieve really amazing things in that way. It will be slower maybe but it will be a longer term sustainable change. So have some fun with your goals, try on goal playfulness. And the next time you encounter a salesperson like the salesperson I was a few versions of me ago and that a lot of people are.

And again, I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with it. And so the next time somebody’s looking for deep motivation just tell them what I always tell them which is, “Look, I’m not really wired that way. I don’t put my happiness in whether or not I achieve my goals. And that actually helps me want to set even bigger goals. And it helps me be more committed and focused. So I don’t have a heavy reason. I just think it might be cool to try and see what I’m capable of.

Alright, thanks for joining me today, everybody, I’ll see you next week. Have a good one.

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Have you ever been in a situation where people are asking for your services, but they don’t want to pay you, or at least you think they don’t want to pay you? Maybe you’ve even provided your services for free in the past so you could gain some experience or test your offerings.

There’s nothing wrong with doing this, but for most entrepreneurs, there comes a time when you want to start charging. It’s a difficult transition to make because, once word gets around, it can feel like freeloaders are everywhere. It might be tempting to grow resentful or feel frustrated, but if you relate to this in any shape or form, this episode is exactly what you need to hear.

Tune in this week to discover what to do when you decide you’re done with the freeloaders and you’re ready to start exclusively charging for your services. I’m sharing how we sometimes assume that when people are asking for our services, they mean for free, and how to start being transparent about what you’re willing to do for free, and what you’re going to charge for.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: Why it’s so challenging to start charging after you’ve been providing your services for free. * Some good reasons why you might want* to give your services away for free. * How to tell yourself the truth about the reasons you’re giving something away for free. * Why it’s always okay for you to charge for something that’s valuable. * The reason I always expect to pay people for their services, even my best friends.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: No More Freeloaders.

Hello everybody. What’s happening? Welcome to an Entre-Talk podcast episode. These are quick little nuggets of wisdom and inspiration and advice for all of my entrepreneur friends. I especially am good at helping coaches or service based entrepreneurs as obviously that is the business model I know best and the one I have a lot of experience in. And today’s Entre-Talk is coming from a conversation I recently had with a friend. Sometimes I have these conversations in passing with a friend or somebody that I interact with, maybe as maybe I’m the customer for example.

And I have some really interesting insight that comes to me sometimes in the midst of these conversations because people of course ask questions. And I hear myself giving advice and think that’s good advice. I want to give that to everyone on the podcast. And so that’s what today’s episode is. I want to talk about when you have people that are asking for your services for free or at least you think that they are asking for them for free. And maybe you’ve given your service for free, maybe you’ve provided it for free in the past.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing that but I find that for most people they get to a certain point where then they want to start charging and it’s a difficult transition from giving away for free into charging especially if you didn’t decide on purpose to give it away for free. You just sort of had a couple friends ask you for your help and you love what you do and you’re good at it and you love your friends and so you offer to help and then another friend heard about it and word gets around pretty fast especially in the LDS church or other communities like that.

And before you know it everybody’s asking for your help for free and it might be tempting to grow resentful or to feel frustrated or maybe somebody else in your life, maybe your spouse is resentful that you’re spending all this time doing this work for free or what have you. Anyway if you can relate to that in any way, shape or form, today’s episode is going to be for you. Now, before I tell you how to transition out of that I want to just mention that, like I said I think that there are good reasons to give things away for free.

Number one, sometimes when you are either new to what you do or you’re starting a new offer or new program or a new version of something you might choose to give it away for free as sort of a beta test group. There’s times when I’ve done that, especially when I first started my coaching practice, I coached people for free. I created a program, I created a six week program, was sort of what my mentor, Brooke Castillo advised, start out with a six week program, so I did.

And then I wanted to test it so I took 10 women through it for free. Was it 10 or eight? I don’t know. Anyway, around there and I did that on purpose. I said, “Hey.” I put out to my email list which I had a little bit of because I started blogging right away. And I said, “Hey, I have a brand new coaching program. I’m a new coach. And it’s meant to help you increase your confidence and your emotional control and support and it’s pretty amazing and it’s especially for you if you’re a member of the LDS church or have similar values. Apply here. It’s free because this is a beta test group.”

So I was very clear about that upfront. So I knew that I was purposely taking those people through it for free. They knew it was my first time doing it and that it was a beta. And anybody else who may have heard of that knew that that was a one-time offer. So it’s a really nice clean way to do it if you want to help some people for free. I still like to make people apply. I still like to try to get a commitment out of them, that they’re going to take it seriously and show up and all of that but otherwise I’m happy to do it for free. It’s a win hopefully both ways.

There are other times when I will give my courses or coaching away for free if it’s a family member or a really close friend and I just really want to help them out for some reason. I have done that. I will do that on occasion. But the rest of the time I don’t and here’s the thing is I always try to and I recommend that you do at least, tell yourself the truth when you give stuff away for free. Tell yourself the truth that I am choosing to serve here unless it’s like I said, a strategic sort of beta test kind of situation.

Then I am choosing to serve this person because they’re a member of my family or a close friend or for whatever reason. Or I’m choosing to go speak at this event, this church thing, I’ll speak at church, stuff for free all the time. I’m choosing to serve for free or maybe really low priced because it’s what I want to do. If you don’t remind yourself of that it’s easy to grow resentful.

And if that’s not the truth. If what’s really true is that you’re just uncomfortable saying no, you feel bad saying no, you don’t want to say no because you’ve been giving stuff away for free to everyone in the neighborhood and now other people are asking for it and you feel bad then listen up. This is what I want to tell you is first of all when people ask you for your service don’t assume that they mean for free. And maybe they do mean for free but I just always assume they mean that they’re willing to pay me for it.

You could just decide to start assuming that if you want to. And might you be wrong? Yes, but that’s okay. If you follow the process I’m going to give you here, there’s a natural built-in way for people to select doubt if they’re not willing to pay for it. Now, you may have to clean up your thinking around this. You may have to decide that it’s alright for you to charge for something that’s valuable.

Sometimes I laugh because I’m like, imagine that you have a friend in your ward who’s a dentist, would you be like, “Oh my gosh, you fill cavities. My daughter has a cavity. Would you be willing to hook us up and just fill in her cavity for free?” You would never say that because you value the work that a dentist does. You know that’s how he earns his living. You know that’s how he makes money, he or she. And so you know that of course that’s going to cost money. You might say though, “Oh my gosh, my daughter needs a dentist or I need a dentist, can I come and see you?”

And what you would probably mean by that is I know that it’s going to cost money. Either myself or my insurance is going to pay for it. So I just assume because I view myself as a professional, you’re going to have to view yourself as a professional that has something valuable to offer that when people ask me that they understand that there’s probably going to be a fee. And I highly recommend that part of your intake process does include something either free or very low priced.

And so the answer when people ask me if I can help is always, “Yes.” So if somebody says, “You’re a coach, oh my goodness, I think I need a coach. Could you coach me?” And again I’m talking like somebody I go to church with or just a friend I meet. And they say, “Can you coach me?” I say, “Yes, I absolutely can.”

So back when I was doing private coaching I would say, “Here’s how it works. I will text you later today the link to my calendar and you just sign up for a free 30 minute session and it’ll give me an idea of what’s going on for you, what you want help with. It’ll give you a taste of how I coach. And then if we decide it’s a fit both ways I will tell you all about what the next steps would be and how much it costs and all the details you need to make a decision.” So I always say, “Yes, I would love to help you.” And in fact the first step is free. It should be, there should be something either free or really low priced.

Now that I don’t do consults that way because my business model has changed, instead of saying, “Go to my calendar and sign up for a free 30 minute”, whatever, I say, “Yes, I would love to help you. Go to this link that I will send you”, or I tell them, “And sign up for a $19 coaching intensive. It’s the best way for you to get a feel for what it’s like to be in my coaching program and see if it’s a fit for you. And if you do like it you’ll learn all about how to join my program and what that entails and we’ll even apply your $19 towards it. If you don’t, that’s okay, you’ll get a whole week’s worth of amazing coaching and content for 19 bucks.”

The answer is always yes and then I explain the process. If I didn’t have a coaching intensive or something I might say, “Yes, I can totally help you. Go to my podcast and listen to these three episodes. And if you like them then go to this website and check out my program and it will tell you how the pricing works and how this works.” Do you see what I’m saying? So you need to have a clear intake process.

If you teach, maybe you play the piano and people are constantly saying to you, “Could you teach my kid to play the piano? He would love to play the piano.” You’d say yes if you want to take students that is. Then you’d say, “Yes, I’d be happy to. The first step is.” And then what is the first step? Do you do a free 30 minutes mini lesson where your child gets to see how you teach and you get to meet the child? And then if it’s going to be a fit or do you have a video that you want them to watch and it teaches them some basics of the piano and they get to meet you on video and then if they like it you let them know what’s available for time slots and how much it costs?

I don’t know, but have some kind of it, I like there to be with service based offers, there should be some kind of a little bit of a trial. And it should be either inexpensive or free. And that is where you send everybody who wants your help, whether they meant they wanted it for free or not, it’s okay. They’re going to get some free help and then they’re going to get the opportunity to either move forward and pay you or not.

People say to me, especially again, members of the LDS church, they say, “Well, you know, everybody expects everything for free.” And I don’t disagree with that but I do think that if you think everybody expects it for free, you’re assuming that and you might be wrong in some cases. I have this happen to me all the time. I actually prefer to pay even my closest friends for their services because I want the full treatment.

If you’re a photographer and I’m like, “I want to pay you.” And she’ll say, “No, I’m not going to charge you, you’re my good friend. How could I charge you?” And I’m like, “No, I want to pay you. I don’t want you to give me a deal. I want to pay you top dollar.” You know why? I want to be able to expect that you’re going to treat me the same way you would treat anyone else who’s paying top dollar. I want to be able to go, “Hey, you said my photos would be ready by this day and they’re not ready, where are they?”

I want to get the full service but I would love to hire you, my friend instead of someone else I don’t know, but please charge me. So a lot of times when I ask people about their services or their offers, if they’re friends of mine they assume I mean I want it for free and I don’t. And in fact I have to convince them to charge me in many cases. So listen, it doesn’t matter whether everyone’s assuming that or not. You have to assume that you’re a professional and that people understand that and if they don’t, that’s fine as long as you understand that.

And you need to have the same process that a professional would have. You need to treat them like they are a real legit client or customer and that is how you get out of this whole freeloading resentment spiral that I see so many people end up in. Don’t do that, you don’t need to. No more freeloaders. Who’s in? Come to Instagram if you want help with this. Come and DM me.

If you have specifics that you’re like, “What about this, what about that?” DM me on Instagram but I do recommend that you create for yourself, if you’re going to do what I sort of talked about in the beginning with my immediate family and a handful of my really close friends I will sometimes allow into my things at a discounted or free rate. But I already know basically who those people are. And beyond that it’s a no.

I don’t do trades. I don’t negotiate because to me a trade is just kind of messy. Who’s to say that what you’re giving me is worth the same as what I’m giving you? Maybe what you’re giving me is worth way more than what I’m giving you. Now we have this weird resentment. But if we just like, “Whatever your stuff costs, I will pay you money for that. Whatever my stuff costs, you pay me money for that.” Then we have really clean transactions and no opportunity for resentment. And I just prefer to do it that way. So I have a clear boundary.

So whenever people say to me, “Can we do a trade?” I say, “I’m so sorry, I just don’t do trades. I just like to keep it really clean. I pay you, you pay me.” So I don’t have to think about it, negotiate it every time. And even with, like I said, I will speak at church things for free any time as long as it’s within a reasonable driving distance of my house. I don’t travel places to do free speaking events unless there’s a really strategic reason that serves my business or maybe something, a skill I’m trying to develop or something like that.

But just because somebody asks me to, I have to have clean boundaries like that for myself so I don’t have to constantly be remaking the decision. Because I’ve got to take care of my business. I’ve got to take care of my family and myself. And it just keeps it really simple so that I don’t have to make those decisions. I have a really generous intake process that gives people tons of help. So if they listen to my podcast, if they come to a low priced or a free next step they’re going to get amazing help even if they decide never to sign up for my stuff.

So I feel really good about being able to then have those clean boundaries and you can set that up too, my friend. Again, come to Instagram, I’m Jody Moore Coaching on there. And if you have specific questions just send them over and I will keep an eye on it. Alright, thanks for joining me today, everybody. I’ll see you next week, bye bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: No More Freeloaders appeared first on Jody Moore.

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To celebrate 400 episodes and show my appreciation to all of you who listen to this podcast, I’m sharing a message that’s near and dear to my heart that I think will have exponential value in your life if you apply it.

Taking people through the process of becoming is my life’s work as a coach. Want to change something about yourself? Landed yourself a new role at work? Navigating parenthood for the first time? All of it requires a phase of pretending before becoming, but if you find yourself stuck in the loop of pretending, listen in.

What can we do to do more becoming and less pretending? This is the question I’m addressing on this episode. I’m showing you the difference between pretending and becoming, three obvious life examples of how we have to pretend before we become, and the internal shift that’s required of you in the process of becoming.

If you are tired of feeling down, lacking energy, being overwhelmed, or maybe even bored, stressed, or snappy… It is time to work towards re-awakening your soul, so join me for Wellness Week! For five days, March 20th through 24th 2023 at 9AM PDT I’m offering coaching around the 5 main pillars of wellness. It’s only $19 and you’re going to love it, so click here for all the info and to register!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The difference between pretending and becoming. * 3 examples of when pretending versus becoming comes up in our lives. * How we have to pretend before we become in many instances. * What you have to remember when you’re in the pretending phase. * Why so many people are unwilling to be in the pretending phase. * What is required of you in the process of becoming.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Brad Jensen
Kristin Andrés
Kris Plachy

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 400, Pretending vs. Becoming.

Hello my friends. Happy anniversary to us. Happy birthday to us. It is our 400th anniversary, 400th, is that how you say it? Why does it sound weird, 400th? This is episode 400. Wow, that’s a lot of me talking. Thank you so much for listening. Whether you joined just last week or you’ve been here since episode number one I’m so appreciative that you’re here. I value your time and your attention. I hope to make this worth your while. I feel really excited about today’s episode.

I was trying to think, what could I do that would be really special for episode 400? But I kept coming up with things that went with the number 400 like 400 ways to whatever and was like that’s a no. Nobody wants a list of 400 of anything nor could I come up with 400 good things. So we’re not going to do anything like that. But I am going to share with you a message that is really near and dear to my heart that I really think can have exponential value in your life if you apply it.

And that is this idea that there is a difference between pretending and becoming. And I’m sure you’re already aware of that. I’m going to dive into what I mean by that but I’m going to tell you how to do more becoming and less pretending because the goal in anything you’re trying to change or become or create in your life is to become rather than have to pretend for, I think obvious reasons but we’re going to dive into them anyway here today. Thanks for joining me.

I’ll tell you that becoming, helping people become is my life’s work. That is what I do as a coach, what I’m trying to do, trying to help you do, I should say, for yourself and your life. And it’s going to be the focus of Wellness Week. And so if you’re not registered for Wellness Week, it’s $19 and you should definitely join me there. Let me tell you first about pretending and becoming. And if you like what I have to say here and it feels powerful to you though, definitely consider joining me there. So there are in my mind three different times, three examples of when in our life this comes up.

When we can either pretend or we can become, three times, maybe there’s more but there are three obvious ones when it’s really relevant and this could be useful. The first one is when you’re trying to make a change. Maybe you are trying to change the way you eat. You’re trying to eat healthier. You’re trying to change the condition of your body in some way. You want to change the composition of it or the health of it in some way. Eating habits will be a part of that and also exercise routine and sleeping routines and stress levels.

All of those things are going to impact your physical health. And if you’re trying to change something in the realm of physical health then there may be some pretending but ultimately we want to become. Let’s just talk about this for just a minute. If I’m trying to eat healthier because it would benefit my body then there’s times when I have to really think about what I’m eating and plan my food more carefully and not give in to urges, to eat things that aren’t as good for me, maybe the things that I’m in the habit of eating.

But at some point I can become someone who just eats healthy. I’ll tell you what. I do still quite a bit of pretending around food. I pretend to want to eat an apple but no, I would rather eat a Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup in the afternoon. I think one of the ways this is the most obvious to me is when I see people and health is one way when this happens to me a lot. I like to follow people and look up to people who are really good at eating right, exercising, taking care of their physical health.

So for example I follow Brad Jensen who I’ve talked about before. I’ve even worked closely with Brad Jensen. He’s on Instagram as The Sober Bodybuilder and he is a health and fitness coach. And I like to follow Kristin Andrus who does all kinds of amazing work in the world. She also creates exercise videos that she puts on YouTube and she’s a big fan of taking care of your physical health.

And I’ve heard both of them on different occasions or witnessed I should say, witnessed them be asked the question by people, “How do you do it? How do you stay motivated? How do you go to the gym and exercise every day? How do you eat well consistently over and over again?” And they’re both very transparent about the fact that they’re not perfect and they’re not extreme about anything but that they consistently take care of themselves physically.

And they both give a different version of the same answer which is, “It’s just who I am. That’s just what I do. I don’t have to stay motivated to do it because it’s just what I do, just like I don’t have to be more motivated to brush my teeth every night, it’s just what I do.” It’s just a habit we sometimes call it. But I like to think of it as more powerful than just a habit. I like to think of it as they’ve both become at some point in their lives, they became someone who exercises pretty much every day and eats pretty healthy on the regular.

So there’s pretending which is doing it even though it’s hard and we don’t want to and we have to think about it and we have to use some willpower and we have to use some other techniques to get ourselves to do it. And then there’s becoming someone who just does it. Maybe the change and like I said, change is the first way that this shows up a lot. Maybe the change you’re trying to make is you want to be better with your time, with time management. Maybe you don’t plan your time at all and you want to get yourself planning your time or this is what I hear most commonly when I coach people.

People are making plans. They’re making to-do lists. They’re thinking about what they need to do but they’re not following through on the plans. So maybe it’s a time management type of change that you’re trying to make in your life. At some point you want to become someone who does the things that you write down on your to-do list for yourself or in your calendar to do. Maybe the change you’re trying to make is around spending less time scrolling social media, more time reading or in your spiritual practice or what have you.

Whatever it is, change is a time when becoming is the goal and pretending is where we start out. Okay, let’s talk about the second time. And like I said, after I give you these three examples then I’m going to tell you some strategies to help you to do so. But the second example when I think this comes up a lot is when you’re in a new circumstance. When you suddenly get placed into a new circumstances for various reasons there’s a lot of pretending happening before we become.

So, not right after but after graduating college, a little while after, I waited tables for a while with my college degree and that was fun. But then eventually I got a job, in my mind it was a ‘real job’ in corporate. I worked for the University of Phoenix. I was an academic counselor. Now, I felt like I was pretending because I was in the beginning because I remember knowing I’m supposed to dress according to the dress code and get my car and go to this office and be there by nine o’clock every day and stay until five o’clock but I don’t know what I’m supposed to do when I’m there.

I go to a cubicle and I sit at a computer but until I became fully trained, until somebody taught me what to do, where to login, what databases to check, what phone calls to make, what things to look up. And until I especially, here’s what I thought was interesting as I was thinking about this example. In the beginning when we’re pretending someone just tells us what to do and then we do it but the becoming happens after you understand why you’re doing it. You understand the bigger picture. And then you can make the nuanced adjustments.

So I was pretending to be an academic counselor when they first hired me to until I understood the objectives of my job and I understood what success looked like and I understood the tools and vehicles that I had by which to become more or less successful in that role.

Maybe you get a new calling at church, maybe you can relate to this. They’re like, “Hey, thanks for being willing to be the relief society president or the bishop of your ward.” You are the bishop now, if they called you to be the bishop or you’re the relief society president. But it’s sort of like you’re pretending that you are in the beginning because you don’t even know what that means. You don’t know how that fits into your life.

You don’t know what you’re supposed to be doing or how to do it or when to do it or how you’re going to do it in your way even if you, maybe you’re very familiar with how the person who did it before you did it. You still don’t know how you’re going to do it. What are you going to bring to this? So there’s some pretending that happens in the beginning before becoming.

If you’re trying to start a new business, I felt this way so much when I was a new coach first of all. I was pretending and then as a new entrepreneur. I was trying to become a coach, become an entrepreneur but in the beginning I was pretending that I was a coach.

As a new mom, oh my goodness I remember bringing home my first child, my son Isaac from the hospital when he was a baby. And my husband got us home and then he went to get diapers and whatever at the store. I don’t know why we didn’t have diapers. Maybe we did, I don’t know. He went to the store to get some stuff, maybe to pick up dinner. So I was home alone with this baby for the first time. And we lived in a tiny little duplex with lots of other little houses and places really close to us in California where it was hot. So everybody always has all the windows open.

And Isaac was crying, I was changing his diaper and he was crying on the changing table and I remember thinking, oh no, the neighbors are going to hear and they’re going to roll their eyes or sort of laugh at me and think she doesn’t know what she’s doing because her baby’s crying. Little did I know that babies cry no matter how amazing of a mom you are. But I remember, it reinforced for me that idea that I’m pretending to be a mom, but I’m not a mom yet.

I’m just pretending to be a mom. I mean I am a mom, I have this baby but didn’t feel like I was a mom. I didn’t know what to do. This happens in new relationships too. Okay, so that’s the second way, change is the first way, something new is the second way.

The third way that this shows up a lot in our lives is when we’re in a phase of growth. And the truth is, hopefully we’re always growing at least a little bit, we’re always being given lots of opportunities to grow in life, dang it. Some growth I think is more exponential and therefore more challenging or more painful than others. And so I think that in those times of growth we move back into the pretending before we move into becoming.

So for example when my business went from being just me to, or maybe just me and an assistant to a team of people I had this realization one day. I was meeting with my team and I have a small team of five or so people, six people that we meet weekly. And then some other additional support too but I remember in one of the meetings somebody asked me a question about something. I don’t know what it was exactly. It was something like, how many people are we going to have at that event or something like that. That I remember thinking, I don’t know.

But they were all looking at me like I should know. I’m the one in charge. I’m supposed to tell them the answer and there’s no more hiding behind I don’t know and giving up because there’s a whole team of people ready to go to work and create the thing that I want to create. And I remember feeling for just a moment, I’m just going to give an answer even though I don’t really know but I won’t tell them I don’t know. I’ll pretend I know how to lead this team. I’ll pretend I know where we’re going and what we’re doing because I hadn’t yet become a leader of my team.

I’m still in some ways pretending at times. Don’t tell my team. It’s okay, they already know. But at times I’m still pretending as I become more of a leader, more of the CEO of my businessman, my friend Kris Placky, this is what she specializes in and has helped me do is become the CEO rather than pretend.

As my kids get older too, as I have teenagers and just different situations that come up in our family, all of a sudden even though I’m a mom I feel like a mom now, I’ve become a mom. But now I’m sort of back into pretending again to know how to be a mom to teenagers at times. There’s times when I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing but I’ll just pretend.

Maybe you get promoted at work. I used to see this in corporate all the time. You have somebody who’s really good at their job and so what do we do? We promote that person to be a manager over a team of 10 people doing that job, except that being a manager is an entirely different job than the job that you were doing. Managing people is not the same as doing whatever the frontline work is that you did that got you the promotion to become a manager.

Except that because you were so good at your job you must be good at being the manager of people doing that job and so people think you know what you’re doing and you might have to pretend until you become a manager. So growth, change, new situations or growth, create this dynamic of pretending vs. becoming. Now, here’s what I want to say about it. I want to say first of all, we all start out pretending mostly I should say. There’s nothing wrong with pretending. I’m not saying that pretending is bad. I think that pretending just is the way.

I call it pretending because I like to give myself the permission to sort of be almost acting or role playing. There are times when I’m just saying, “Yes, I know what direction we’re going, team, we’re going here.” And the part of my brain that’s like, no, you don’t, you’re just making that up. You have no idea what’s going to happen. I sort of answer that part of my brain, I should say, I give myself permission to be confident anyway because I call it pretending. I’m like, “I know, but we’re just pretending we know the answer.” And that’s okay. That’s where we have to begin.

And sometimes we call this imposter syndrome and I talked a little bit about this recently on the Entre-Talk episodes but I think it comes up in all different areas of our lives. And when that imposter voice comes up going, “You’re an imposter.” If you just answer it with, “Yeah, I’m in the pretending phase.” That’s okay, that’s where we all start out. You know how kids learn to talk? They imitate other people talking. They pretend to know what they’re talking about but half the time they don’t.

I have to tell you a funny story. I’m sorry. My youngest daughter, recently my mother-in-law, was staying with the kids when my husband and I were out of town and she’s in first grade. She says something to grandma, she calls upstairs for grandma to help her with something. And my older daughter who’s 15 says, “Oh, Taylor, grandma’s upstairs, I don’t think she can hear you. Do you need help with something? Can I help you?” And the younger daughter, Taylor, says, “None of your business.” And my older daughter, Macy looks at her with surprise like, oh, okay.

And Taylor realizes by the look on Macy’s face and by her reaction that what she’d said was sort of off-putting and she admitted, “I don’t know what that means.” So she had heard probably her older siblings and her parents and other people say, “None of your business.” And she got the idea that it’s something people say when somebody else tries to get in the middle of your conversation but she didn’t fully understand what it meant. She was pretending. She was trying out that statement, “None of your business.”

Now, again, by the reaction she realized, I don’t think that it means what I thought it meant. And that’s how she’s going to learn what it means but we all do some of that in the beginning. We’re pretending, we’re like, let me try this thing that I’ve seen someone else do or let me try showing up in the way that I think it should look and sometimes I might get it right and sometimes I might get it wrong.

Now, here is what I think is key in this beginning pretending phase. It will feel dishonest I think or dis-ingenuine or outside of your integrity if you’re pretending to be an expert at it. I don’t mean pretend to be really good at it or to be perfect at it. I mean pretend that you are that thing and see how it goes and be willing to admit that you’re just pretending just like Taylor did when she said, “I don’t actually know what that means.” That makes it a cute, sweet kind of funny story and it makes Macy go, “Oh, okay. Well, let me explain to you what that means.”

So that’s what I want you to do in the pretending phase, try it out and when your brain’s like, “This is fake.” You’re like, “Yeah, we’ve got to try. We’ve got to start somewhere but be willing to admit that you’re still learning and you don’t really know. Be willing to say,” I’m not good at this so maybe I messed that up. Maybe I did it wrong.” But I find that so many people are not willing to go through the pretending phase first of all. They want specific direction.

They want to know, this is the person in college that was asking five million questions of the professor, “How many pages does the paper need to be? How much research do we need to do? How many sources do we need to cite? Is it single spaced or double spaced?” I would always get so frustrated because I’m like, “Look, now we have to follow this specific formula.”

If you just step back and understand the goal of what you’re trying to do and you pretend that you know how to do it and you might get it wrong but then you can go back and revise it, otherwise you have to do it this one certain way that may not be the right way for you, so pretend. Some days I eat a salad for lunch some days. And I pretend to be someone who likes eating a salad for lunch but I am not someone who likes a salad for lunch. I’m just pretending. I am seeing is there a type of salad that I could like that would make my body feel good, that would fill me up, that would be satiating, that would achieve all the goals I have for myself?

But in the beginning I have to pretend. Are you with me? The next thing I want to say is that to move out of pretending and here’s why we want to move out of pretending. Let me just preface it before I tell you the way. Pretending is exhausting. Pretending means that it requires a lot of focus and concentration. I have to really pay attention. I have to think through things. Maybe I have to plan in advance. I have to take a lot of guesses. I’m getting a lot of things wrong. I have to manage myself around not beating myself up when I get it wrong.

It’s exhausting staying in pretending. This is why people give up on goals. This is why people often don’t make lasting change or stick with it if that’s an option. When you’ve got a kid, you’re a mom, it’s not an option to, it is I guess, but most people wouldn’t choose the option to walk away and abandon their child. And so there are times when we stick with it and we become. But if it’s optional we often walk away because the pretending phase is so hard.

But here’s what I want to tell you. I don’t want you to walk away from the things that you really want to achieve. I want you to come to Wellness Week because this is what I’m going to teach you. You can pretend on the outside but becoming happens on the inside. Did you hear that? Let me say it again. You can pretend on the outside but to become it has to happen on the inside of you. So what do I mean by that? What’s happening on the outside is the action that you’re taking and I want you to do that. I want you to take action. I want you to try stuff.

I don’t want you to just sit back and become on the inside. I think that’s actually the hard way to do it. I think just sitting on the couch trying to believe in yourself is the hard way. I want you to go take a lot of action towards the goals that you want. I want you to try eating the salads. I want you to try some marketing in your business. I want you to try all the things, knowing that you’re pretending I just want you to also be working on the internal transformation that must happen for you to become who you’re trying to become.

In other words you must change your internal view of yourself, of who you are, of what’s possible for you. If you can’t picture yourself as the person who does the things that she wrote down on her calendar and said she was going to do you will never get out of that loop of trying and failing. You have to picture yourself as a person who lives a healthy lifestyle. You picture yourself as somebody who eats healthy for the most part, who exercises regularly. If you can’t picture yourself and it’s okay if you can’t right away but you’ve got to work on that part.

And I’ll tell you what we tend to do instead. What we tend to do instead is we move into overwhelm, confusion, believing we’re not doing it right or just saying, “I just can’t get myself to do it.” This is how you know you’re not doing the internal work. You’re trying to do the external work. You’re trying to do the thing on the outside, great, keep doing that, don’t stop doing that but also you’ve got to come do the internal work. You’ve got to change on the inside. This is what we’re going to be doing in Wellness Week for five days.

We’re going to look at all different topics, physical health, financial health, emotional health. I can’t remember the others but we’re looking at all the five pillars of wellness. And we’re looking at how do I become. Now, here’s what I want to tell you. It’s not as simple as just change how you think about yourself. Stop believing that you’re unhealthy, an unhealthy person who eats lots of junk food. Start believing that you’re a healthy person. It’s not that simple because if it was we’d all just do that. The mind is complicated. You are complicated and dynamic. And this is why I love coaching.

Coaching allows for that, so coaching allows us to play with your current thoughts, not even necessarily change them. We might be able to find things that you’re already thinking but we put a slight twist on them to create a new feeling with those same thoughts and stories. If you’ve not experienced coaching, that’s not going to make a lot of sense to you. But all I can say is sometimes, let me try to give you an example.

Somebody may have the thought, it’s all on me. I have coached let’s say a lot of moms for example who will say, “It’s all on me. I have to do everything.” And as we play with it, it’s just a thought, it’s just a story. I’m not saying that we make it a fact ever. It’s always just a story. But maybe we don’t have to get rid of that story because a lot of women especially, moms are like, “No, you don’t understand. It is all on me. I do all the things.” Especially if you’re a single mom or you have a spouse who is gone a lot or otherwise unable to help for whatever reason.

It’s all on me, might be a thought that we keep but rather than it’s all on me, poor me, this is so hard and self-pity what if it’s all on me, look at me, I am pretty freaking amazing. And it’s all on me. It’s all on me. I get to choose here. I get to decide what we’re going to do. We can tap into the side of all of us that actually wants to be in control and leverage that part of us with the thought, it’s all on me rather than tap into the side of us that wants to feel sorry for ourselves and think that we can’t do it and poor us and feel bad for ourselves with the thought, it’s all on me.

Do you see what I’m saying? Same thought, different emotions behind it through coaching. Sometimes with coaching we get to work in the space of allowing emotions and processing emotions. A lot of people take what I teach here on the podcast and then you use it to judge the way you’re thinking, to judge your feelings, to push them away, to resist them. That is not going to work long-term in most cases. So we work in the space of allowing and processing emotions and sometimes that’s enough. Sometimes just giving it a minute to cycle through you is enough.

Sometimes the work of coaching means cleaning up stories that you have from your past. And sometimes we find that the stories that you have from your past are indulgent and we don’t need to tell them ever again. Sometimes we need to create a new story for your future and we need to focus more on the future. Sometimes we need to have you focusing less on the future because it’s freaking you out. How could it be all of these things? Because it’s specific to each individual. It’s specific to you and your dynamic complicated mind.

We need to sometimes acknowledge your current beliefs with compassion and create safety for you to step into that next version of yourself. We need to make it safe for you to believe in the version of yourself that you want to be. For some of you it’s not safe to believe in that version of you for all kinds of reasons, again sometimes it’s past experience. Sometimes it’s things that you’ve been taught about what people like that are like.

I coach a lot of people who want to make more money but they recognize that they have thoughts about people with money, judgments of people with money. And that they’re afraid if they make more money they’re going to turn into a bad person. Okay, that’s valid. We can’t just dismiss that and say, “Stop thinking that.” We’ve got to understand it. We’ve got to pull it apart. We’ve got to play with it. We’ve got to make it safe for it to come out and be exposed to the light because the light dissipates it ultimately.

So that’s what we’re going to be doing at Wellness Week. If you’re not registered you really need to be there, jodymoore.com/intensive. It’s 19 bucks.

Okay, now, there’s one more thing that I want to teach you though about the process of becoming. So far let me just recap. We’ve talked about the three times when it’s relevant, during a change, when you’re in a new situation or during times of growth. I’ve also taught you that we all start out pretending and that’s okay. And I’ve taught you that you can pretend on the outside but becoming only happens on the inside.

And the last thing I want to offer to you today is that the process of becoming is more valuable than the arrival point. Again, I want to say that one more time because you need to write this down if you’re not. The process of becoming is more valuable than the arrival point. It is more expansive. It is more exciting. It is more fulfilling. It is more exhilarating. It is more fun. I know this is hard to believe. How could the process of making a million dollars be more fun than having a million dollars? It’s hard to believe, isn’t it? I get it.

It’s the honest to goodness truth. And maybe you have experiences in your life that you can look back on and say, “Yeah, I do believe that.” Because I don’t know about you but I have experiences where I can say, “Yeah, I believe that.” And at the same time a part of me doesn’t believe that at all. Part of me is like, “How could that be?” Once I am really skinny and fit for life that’s just going to be so amazing. I’ll just be so happy all the time except have you seen people who are skinny and fit? They are happy some of the time and they’re still unhappy some of the time. How could that be?

That’s just the reality of it. Your brain’s going to come with you and that’s why the process of becoming though is valuable, it is expansive. It is actually what I believe that we’re here on Earth to do. I think it’s why Heavenly Father sent us to Earth and gave us bodies and said, “Let’s go, let’s see what you can do.” And gave us the human condition to push back against.

Because without that human condition, without the temptation to give up and the struggle with discomfort and the ongoing self-doubt and self-judgment and criticism and pride and all those things that we have to overcome. Without any of that we wouldn’t have this becoming process available to us. That wouldn’t be even a thing that’s possible. And so by simply getting over one more hump in terms of understanding how to leverage yourself as a human being, how to manage yourself, how to manage your mind, how to process emotions.

How to better connect with other people, how to be in abundance and gratitude and operate from all those places. All the things that are necessary in order to become as opposed to just pretend are the point. And we feel that intrinsically. We feel the power of that as human beings and so for that reason let’s do some becoming. In whatever area of your life you want to become, I would love to help you. It’s so much fun. Head to jodymoore.com/intensive and come and join me and let’s become at Wellness Week. I’ll see you there, take care everybody.

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Pursuing your purpose and living it out is extremely gendered in our society. As women, we’ve been conditioned to believe that we’re being selfish somehow if we pursue our purpose. I’ve heard from so many women who tell me they don’t know what their purpose is, or that they’re just not that ambitious. But I believe that every single one of us has a purpose.

If there’s something that you’re curious about, or that you think you have the potential to be good at, pursuing it would benefit you and the world. Going all-in on your purpose isn’t some secret answer to the universe, but the alternative of abandoning your purpose is far worse.

Join me this week to discover why courage and purpose go hand-in-hand, and how, in general, men don’t seem to have the same fear about aiming high that women experience. You’ll hear why fulfilling your purpose requires courage, and how to know if you’re casting your purpose aside.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The reason I’m discussing courage and purpose together. * How pursuing your purpose benefits you and the world. * Why the notion of pursuing our purpose is extremely gendered. * How to know if you’re not fulfilling your purpose. * The obvious and more subtle reasons going all-in on your purpose requires courage.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Jade Simmons

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Courage and Purpose.

Gee, that’s a mouthful. I kept fumbling over my words, Better Than Happy Entre Talk. I can say it, I promise. Okay my friends I’ve got some thoughts today so get ready. I want to talk about courage and I want to talk about purpose. And I’ll tell you why I’m lumping these two things together. And I especially want all my female listeners to listen up. Well, I actually want the men to listen up too. But I think that this topic of purpose and following your purpose, pursuing your purpose, living out your purpose is extremely gendered in not a useful way in terms of how we think about it.

And so I want to bring it to your awareness today because ultimately you get to think about this however you want to. And if the way you’re thinking about it serves you then I love it, keep it. But I want to bring to your awareness that as women we’ve been socialized and conditioned to believe that if we pursue our purpose it might be that we’re being selfish.

How many times have you heard a man say, “I have this little business that I started and it’s doing relatively well but I think I could do a lot more with it. I think it could be a lot bigger. I could be a lot more successful. I could make a lot more money but I’m worried that growing this business is me being selfish.” I’m not saying it hasn’t happened that men haven’t said that. I’m sure it has but I have not heard it very often.

Most of us would not say that. If you’re a woman and you have a husband and he were to say to you, “I think I want to really put a lot into this business and I want to grow it, I want to make more money.” You would go, “Okay honey, well I support you. What do we need to do to make that happen?”

Now, let’s look at the opposite gender. Let’s imagine a woman saying, “I have this business, it’s doing relatively well. It’s doing okay but I think I could do a lot more. I want to put a lot more into it. I think I could grow it, make a lot more money. And we don’t even need the money. I just think it might be cool to see what’s possible.” Might you wonder if she was being selfish? I wouldn’t. I would be like, “Yes, let’s go.” But I think a lot of you and a lot of you women who maybe are in that situation come to me and say to me all the time, “How do I know if I should do that or if I’m just being selfish?”

So I just want you to notice the difference, notice the discrepancy based on gender. Why does gender have anything to do with it? I am just curious. I just want to put it out there. And I want to tell you what I believe about purpose. I believe that every single one of us has purpose and I don’t mean that you have something you need to do to earn your worth. I don’t mean that you need to prove anything to the world or earn your right to be alive and be a human. That’s not what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about something that drives you that you’re curious about, that you have the potential to be very good at, maybe you’re already even naturally kind of good at it. That, if you choose to pursue it, it will benefit you and it will benefit the world. It will benefit you because as you pursue your purposes, as you work to fulfill your purpose you will grow internally. You will connect more with yourself. You will become better at the things you want to be better at.

You will learn how to be there for yourself when you aren’t good at it, when you fall down. So it will serve you internally. It will serve you externally in that you can make money or achieve whatever kind of goals you want to achieve in the world. But it will also serve the world because in some way it will be you helping others, serving others, providing something for others that is useful for others as they go to fulfill their purpose. And so I think like I said, every single one of us has that.

Now, how we fulfill that purpose is very different for all of us and it might even be different for you at different times in your life. So I recently heard Jade Simmons who is a motivational speaker and brilliant, beautiful, amazing. I love you so much Jade Simmons. I’m a huge fan of yours. She recently said this about or I heard her say it recently about purpose. She said, “Purpose is not the thing that you do. Purpose is the thing that happens inside other people when you do what you do.” What?

Let me say that one more time. Your purpose is not the thing that you’re doing or that you’re meant to do. Your purpose is the change or transformation that happens inside other people when you do what you do. That’s pretty amazing. So what is your purpose? And then how are you going to execute that purpose, that is going to change. It’s going to change at various times in your life. Sometimes it’s going to be something you do at home with your own family. Sometimes it’s going to be something you do out in the world in your business.

Sometimes it’s going to be something you do in your church calling. It’s going to change but your purpose doesn’t change and I’ll tell you how you know if you’re not fulfilling your purpose, you’ll feel bored, you’ll feel stagnant, you’ll feel overwhelmed. I talked a little bit about this last week but you will feel like you’re not progressing, you’ll feel stagnant, you’ll feel dissatisfied, unfulfilled, all of those things.

And the reason I’m calling this episode, Courage and Purpose is because there is that end of the continuum where we’re not pursuing our purpose. And then there’s the other end where we go all in on our purpose, on fulfilling it, on pursuing it. And that requires courage, it requires courage, it does. It requires courage because it’s scary to go out and try new things and learn things and meet people and ask people for help and ask people if they’re interested in whatever it is that you do and learn about technology and be terrible at it.

All of that stuff requires courage but I think those are the most obvious ways in which pursuing your purpose is fearful. I want to point out some of the less obvious ways in which you still need to have courage. Here’s the main way. You’re going to have to say no to other opportunities or other asks. You’re going to have to say no to people who ask you to just do them a favor if it doesn’t align with you fulfilling your purpose.

You’re going to have to say no to what seem like kind of cool opportunities, something that might be kind of fun and kind of cool to do it and might bring in a lot of money but it doesn’t get you closer to your purpose. Then you’re going to have to say no to that. And ideally you’re not going to make up a lie. You’re just going to tell the honest truth which is, “Thanks so much for the opportunity but that just doesn’t align with my purpose right now.” That requires courage.

You might even have to say no to some things within your own family. You might have to speak up and be bold about what you want to do. You might have to take action towards something that other people think you’re foolish for doing. You’re going to have judgment even from people that you care about. So fulfilling your purpose requires courage, it really does. But I’ll tell you what, I just talk to so many of you, especially women who don’t usually come right out and say, “I don’t want to fulfill my purpose.” Nobody ever says that.

But what they say instead is either, “I don’t know what it is.” Or, “I’m just not ambitious. I’m just really satisfied with my life right now. I don’t really want anything more. I don’t mean anything more. I’m just really content with where I’m at.” Or, “I just don’t have the time or the mental capacity.” Or, “I just have too much on my plate to think about anything else.” And listen, those might be valid things. I’m not saying that for every person that says that, that this means they’re not fulfilling their purpose.

What I’m saying is that for some of you, you’re using those things as an excuse because you’re afraid to fulfill your purpose. You’re afraid to even know what your purpose is. And I want to encourage you to step outside of that fear because I notice that, and this is definitely a generalization but I notice that for the most part men don’t have this kind of fear. They want to go after things. They want to be ambitious and driven. They want to aim high. And they don’t tell themselves that it’s selfish to want to do that.

It’s seen as noble and admirable and courageous. And I want to offer that it’s just as noble and courageous regardless of whether you’re a male or a female, regardless of whether you’re married or single, regardless of whether you have children at home or not. You have purpose. And the more you go towards your purpose and give yourself permission to strive to fulfill your purpose, I’m not saying it will be easy and I’m not saying that it will make everything in your life go smoothly, it won’t.

But the alternative is worse. The alternative of abandoning yourself and your purpose is far worse and it catches up with you. Why do you think so many women have thyroid problems and ulcers and all these other problems? Because we abandon a part of ourselves. Please don’t do that.

Alright, told you I was going to be on a rant today. I love you. I’ll see you next time. Have a beautiful rest of your week, bye bye.

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Sometimes, I notice myself coaching people in what might feel like a contradictory way, agreeing with one side of an experience while also agreeing with the other side. To explain how this is possible, I’m introducing you to something I call the Comfort-Discomfort Cycle.

There are two philosophies I use when coaching. First, I believe we should enjoy life. There will be times when it’s challenging and overwhelming, especially when we’re going after big goals, but we can still have fun. On the other hand, we need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Discomfort is necessary and useful, and if you’re willing to feel it, there’s no limit to what you can achieve.

I’ve used both of these philosophies to achieve success in different areas of my life and help my clients achieve their dreams as well. Tune in this week to discover how these seemingly opposing outlooks can combine to help you have any experience you want in your life.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The 2 philosophies I’ve lived my life by. * How I help my clients turn the heaviness and seriousness of life into real fun. * Why discomfort is an absolute necessity for a life well lived. * How the idea of failure motivates me. * Why the things you achieve or don’t achieve don’t make you a better or worse person. * My tips for feeling comfortable with discomfort where necessary, and experiencing the fun that lives on the other side.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
1. Shame, Pride, Confidence, and Humility

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 399, The Comfort-Discomfort Cycle.

Hey there everybody, how’s it going today? I want to talk to you about comfort and discomfort. And the reason that this episode was something I wanted to record is because sometimes I notice myself coaching people in what feel like contradictory ways or I notice myself agreeing with someone who says one thing that feels contradictory to another thing I also agree with. I’ve had that come up a couple of times in the last couple of weeks around this topic of comfort and discomfort and fun and pleasure and ease and challenge.

So I want to dive into it and tell you what I think is the way I think about this. But lately a lot of these podcasts, I appreciate you humoring me because a lot of these podcasts are me fleshing out some of my ideas. And it seems like they really resonate with all of you. I did one recently on pride and shame and confidence and humility which has been so well received. If you didn’t listen to that episode go back. It’s just a few episodes ago. And so many people are saying how they loved that episode.

So this is going to be another one of those kind of, I’ve formulated my ideas in an outline here but I hope it makes sense. That’s how I talk about it. I do want to make sure before we dive in that you’re registered for Wellness Week because I’m so excited for Wellness Week this time. I’m really putting a lot of preparation into how I want to really blow your minds at Wellness Week in a way that I’ve never done before. And it’s $19.

So even if you have a full schedule and don’t think you’re going to be able to come to the 90 minutes a day five days a week you’ll get replays that you can watch later on. If it doesn’t fit in your schedule, watch them that evening or something. I do want you to participate with me throughout the week. This isn’t something to add to your library of online content. I don’t want to clutter up, I think even our digital lives cluttered is not a useful thing.

But I’m talking, if you want to go through a transformative process and see how coaching can transform yourself even and justify the experience come to Wellness Week. So you can head to jodymoore.com and you’ll see a link right there to register for that.

So let me begin by describing like I said, these two seemingly contradictory philosophies that I love and that I live by actually. I’ve used both of these philosophies to achieve some success in certain areas of my life, what to me is kind of extraordinary success that I never thought I would be able to achieve. And then I’m still using both of these philosophies to achieve additional success sometimes in the same areas, sometimes in other areas of my life where it’s struggled.

And the first one is that we should enjoy life. It’s not meant to always be challenging and overwhelming. And sometimes it will be challenging and overwhelming. But that we can enjoy life and that we can have fun. You guys know I’m big on fun. We just had Be Bold live which was super fun and we gave everyone t-shirts that say, ‘This is going to be fun’. Because that philosophy of having fun while you achieve big things, for example building my business and choosing to have fun along the way served me really well.

And part of having fun is being playful with it, not getting too serious, not taking it too seriously or becoming too heavy with it. But it’s also sometimes finding the easiest way, discovering what is your way to do things. And the way that is the easiest and most natural and most fun for you will probably be the way that is most effective for you. And that’s probably the ‘right way’ for you to do it. Sometimes we even say things like, “If it’s not fun I’m not doing it.”

Sometimes when I’m coaching people, I’ll just use business as the example because in my business coaching program I see this from time to time. We’re coaching someone on how to achieve the next milestone in their business. And when there’s a lot of pressure and heaviness or emotion, not that there’s anything wrong with that but sometimes the way I coach them is like, “What if we just decided to lighten up around this?”

I do this actually with not just my entrepreneur clients, my clients who I’m coaching on life situations. I had this realization one day that I coach a lot of moms. And there’s sometimes so much heaviness and seriousness around wanting to be good moms and wanting to do it right and raise our kids because it feels so important. But I would point out, “Remember when we were little girls and we would play house and we’d say, “I get to be the mom” because we thought that would be fun?

And now we are the mom in real life and it doesn’t seem in this moment right now that you’re having a lot of fun. What if you let it be fun? What if you ease up a little bit on the pressure and the perfectionism and the people pleasing and all of that in business, in life, in your parenting, in your relationships, in your weight loss, whatever it is you’re trying to do. And you just let yourself have fun and be playful and not be perfect at it and make it as easy and simple as possible. What if you were up for doing it the slow way?

That’s what I was telling my friend the other day. I was like, “I feel like I should start a program where people can join me on this journey that I’m calling for myself, weight loss the slow way.” Because I’ve done it before, I’ve lost weight before. I know how to lose weight. And I’m so grateful to coaches and courses and programs and people that I’ve learned from that helped me learn how to lose weight. And I’m grateful that I lost weight because now I know that I can lose weight and I know how to do it for myself in a way that I like.

What I don’t know is how to keep that weight off permanently and how to become a person who just weighs what I think is my ideal body weight. And I’m pretty sure that that next step for me is going to require that I lose weight on my own, that I learn to be accountable to myself and that I do it in a slow way. And I am, I’m losing weight slowly. And that’s kind of cool because that slow way is the way that I can maintain forever. It’s the way that I can live forever.

I’m not going to be able to be on a diet forever. But I can slowly adjust my eating habits in a way that serves my body so that I forever remain as healthy as I possibly can when it comes to my weight and my body composition.

So anyway that whole philosophy of let’s have fun, let’s let it be slow and easy because the slow way is the easier way. The fast way is usually hard and stressful for anything, for weight loss, for building a business, for making money, for getting through school or college. The fast way is the hard way. That’s why I’m a fan of the slow easy way that you can just become that version of you forever. So that’s the first philosophy that I’m a huge believer in. I talk about it all the time. I coach people around this at times if I think it would serve them. And I’ve offered it to you here on the podcast.

But then there’s this other equally important philosophy of being comfortable being uncomfortable. The idea that discomfort is necessary and useful. And that if you’re willing to be uncomfortable you can achieve a lot in your life. And sometimes even people will say to me, “Well, I know I’m supposed to be doing this thing. Maybe I’m supposed to post on Instagram. I told myself I was going to post on Instagram every day for my business but I just don’t want to do it. It’s hard to do.”

And I say, “I’m sorry, I’m confused, what’s the question?” Because this presumes that in order to do it you have to want to do it and you don’t have to. You just have to do it. You don’t have to want to do it. And it’s okay if it’s hard you can just let it be hard and do it anyway. In fact last night we were getting the kids to bed and my two younger ones said, well, one of my younger ones I should say, said, “I don’t want to brush my teeth.” And my husband looked at me and we smiled and he said, “Good news, you don’t have to want to. You just have to brush your teeth.”

So you don’t have to want to. It’s okay that it’s hard. It’s okay that you’re uncomfortable. It’s okay that you’re freaked out when you go to first start a business especially, or put yourself out in some way and your brain’s afraid that people are going to judge you and you’re going to fail and you get all that stuff. That’s okay, just let it be there and get going anyway. And you don’t have to want to.

What was I listening to recently? I don’t remember. But this idea came to my mind that discomfort is like the goalie. Think about soccer or hockey. And I just apologize in advance if I say anything wrong because sports metaphors I probably shouldn’t say because I don’t know sports very well. But I think this is a useful way to think about it. So there is a goalie guarding the goal. And discomfort is that goalie. But when we’re playing soccer we’re not like, “Well, I can’t try to kick the ball into the goal because there’s a person in the way blocking it.”

We know there’s going to be a person there. We know there’s going to be a goalie there. And we’re actually running towards the goalie. We expect the goalie to be there and in fact getting the ball in the goal and getting it past the goalie is what makes it so extraordinary, past all the other people on the team defending the goal as well. But still that goalie and the other defenders we might say are discomfort and towards discomfort in order to achieve a goal, literally in sports a literal goal.

So these two things feel like they contradict each other. And I want to address that today and give some of my thoughts around why when I’m coaching people sometimes I go the route of what would make this easier and more fun? And sometimes I go the route, so what that it’s hard, let it be hard. And I don’t know that I always make the right choice when I’m coaching. I’m trying to read my client and offer what I think will serve them best. But my hope in this podcast is that you can assess for yourself what would serve you best.

And if you want help figuring that out come to Wellness Week and I’ll help you figure it out. But here’s the way I think about it. So if we’re going to go the second route, if we’re going to go, “Listen, soldier up, let’s go, let it be hard, let’s do it anyway. So what that it’s hard. We can do hard things.” This kind of let’s rally approach. You don’t have to want to. I find that approach for me in business and in other areas of life to be super fun. I get really fired up. I get motivated.

I love listening to motivational speakers who talk about doing hard things and pushing through and being willing to fail and committing and doing it no matter what. And that whole kind of talk I find to really motivate and inspire me in my business, you know why? Because when I fail in business I don’t take it personally. I don’t make it mean that I’m a failure. And even if I do really rally and try out a strategy that’s hard for me and it doesn’t work and I decide to change course then I do so with a lot of confidence.

I simply go, “That didn’t work. Thanks for the suggestion”, whoever was the teacher that taught it to me or the person that suggested it, “Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it out. I actually didn’t like it. It didn’t convert for me and I’m going to change course and try this other thing now.” And I have a lot of confidence around that. So I’m okay with not getting the ball in the goal because I have my shin guards on. So when that goalie kicks it back or if I’m up against a defender and they kick me in the shin, it doesn’t really hurt because I have shin guards on.

Or in hockey, don’t they wear a whole bunch of pads and a helmet and stuff? I’ve got my protective gear on which is my own relationship with myself, my connection with myself, my confidence, my belief that it’s okay if I don’t know how to do it. I’ll just try again. It doesn’t mean anything about myself as a person. It doesn’t even mean that I won’t be able to figure it out. It doesn’t mean something about my future. It just means that didn’t work, alright, let’s try something else. So proud of me for trying it.

I have that protective layer. And if you don’t have that protective layer in some area of your life, you can work on it, you can. But also if you don’t have it I don’t want you to run up and get kicked in the shins. I don’t want you to take a hockey puck to the head. That could actually do more harm than good. Achieving the goal isn’t necessary if it means you’re going to have serious injury in the process.

So if I sense that someone is taking it really personally or is overly emotional about something or is going to in some way not get their own back or it’s going to diminish their ability to believe in the future that they want. Then I take the opposite approach of, “Listen, let’s just have fun. Let’s just relax. Let’s slow it down. There’s no need to be in a rush. Why are we taking it so seriously? Why are we putting so much pressure on ourselves?”

So I’m going to go back to for me, this is with food. And I’ve made some progress on it but I look at myself when I first really started my journey with good and it’s so fascinating how I took it all so personally. If I failed at my health and nutrition goals then I made it mean something about my own willpower or strength or whether or not I was ever going to be able to live in a healthy way and eat and exercise in the way that I want to forever. And I still sometimes am tempted to do that. Or I start having all the obsessive thoughts about food and bodies. You know what I’m talking about.

And so for me with food when I notice my head go to that place, that is not a healthy place. I don’t want to go there. It’s not worth it. It’s fine to have whatever body you have or the body I have. I could live this way forever. It’s fine if I don’t score any goals. It’s not worth getting injured over. I would rather live this way forever than create more damage to myself in terms of my emotional and mental health and my relationship with myself, my relationship with food, my relationship with my body. It’s not worth doing harm over.

And so when that comes up, the heaviness, the emotional, the drama, it’s, hey, listen, this is all just for fun. We’re just playing soccer here. That’s it. It’s just a game. It’s not even World Cup soccer necessarily, even if it is World Cup soccer, it’s just a game. And yeah, it’s awesome if you win and it’s fine if you don’t. So it’s certainly not worth any kind of harm or damage that you might be doing to yourself to try to get the goal, it’s just not.

So that is why for me both of these philosophies are equally true and equally important and equally valuable in my life because my work to do is to connect with myself and learn to not use either my success or my failures as evidence of what kind of person I am. Let me say that one more time because I want to offer this to you as well. I think this is most of our work to do in our lifetime.

To not use the things that we achieve or the things that we overcome to mean that we are better people now just like I don’t want you using the things you don’t achieve or the struggles or challenges you have or any of your shortcomings to mean that you’re a less than person. It doesn’t mean any of that. It just tells us some things about the lens by which you view the world, what are probably some inherited strengths and weaknesses.

What are some strengths and weaknesses and hopefully some positive things but also some harm and trauma and damage that has happened as a result of the circumstances of your life. What wounds have been healed, what wounds are still not healed. That’s what it tells us. And none of that touches your worth. So if I can tell that you’re coming from a healthy place, you’ve got your shin guards on, you’ve got your helmet on, you’re geared up, you’re protected, I’m like, “Let’s go. Let’s make a goal.”

Who cares that there’s discomfort? Who cares that there’s a goalie in the way? Who cares that there are defenders all around the goal? Let’s see what we could do. Let’s see if we can push past them. Let’s see if we can get around them. Let’s see if we can score a goal anyway because it’s the fact that there is opposition that makes it so awesome when you do score the goal. And on the other hand, if you’re not geared up then that’s okay but our goal is to gear up.

Our goal is to get whatever protective mechanisms we need that means healing from trauma which might mean working with a clinical specialist or therapist. That means doing the ongoing necessary work of connecting with yourself and validating yourself and learning how to like yourself even before you make the changes you want to make in yourself, learning to like yourself. Learning to not take things so personally, to not make them means something so heavy. That’s what our work is to do.

And that doesn’t mean we have to sit back and do that before we work on goals, before we try to achieve whatever you want to achieve in your life. It just means that you might want to take a more fun, slow, easier approach because there’s no reason to speed it up anyway. Unless the reason is going to be, let’s see if I can get past the defense because that would be cool. It’s the only reason to speed it up.

But in the end you’re going to shoot that goal and then what happens after we score a goal? We celebrate for a minute, pretty cool. Maybe everybody cheers. That feels good. And then what? We start again. We start again. This is how it is my friends. You will score a lot of goals in your life and then it won’t seem like a big deal. The cheering will stop. You’ll stop feeling the high of it, the whatever positive emotion you feel because of it. For some people they say that that high doesn’t last long at all. In fact some of them wonder if they felt it all.

But even when you do, it’s not going to last forever because we’re designed to keep trying, to try again, to see what else we could do, to strive for the next level or the next thing. That’s the way of it, as it should be. So I call this the comfort-discomfort cycle because we’re not meant to live in discomfort all the time I don’t think, I really don’t. I don’t think that getting down there to the right in front of the goal and then going at it with the defense and trying to get past the goalie is the state we should be in all the time.

I think that we should do that some of the time and then we score the goal and then we should relax and celebrate. And there should be times of taking a water break and just enjoying where we’re at. There should be in between game times even and timeouts and all of that. And just running up and down the field a little bit. It’s not always like that last minute hustle.

So there should be comfort in between the discomfort but unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, being in comfort for too long starts to feel boring to us and we want to see if we could score another goal at some point. So think of it as the comfort-discomfort cycle but make sure that you are geared up because I don’t want you aiming for any goal at your own expense, it’s not necessary, not worth it.

Alright, thanks for joining me today. I’ll see you next week for another episode. Take care.

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In your business, when you’re struggling, do you ever find yourself thinking that maybe you’re just not that good at what you do? When you’re new, it’s tempting for your brain to think that the problem is you, that you just don’t know what you’re doing. If you’ve had thoughts like these, this episode is for you.

Building a business means you’re always having to try new things. Whether it’s technology, numbers, time management, social media, or anything else you’re struggling with, I’m here to tell you, of course you aren’t good at this stuff, and you might never be good at them either, but that doesn’t actually matter.

Tune in this week to discover how to respond to that part of your brain that’s telling you that you aren’t good enough. I’m sharing some personal stories of understanding that I won’t be great at everything, why that’s okay, and how you can start being better at not being good in some areas of your business.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why you can’t lie to your brain and pretend you are good at something when you’re not. * The value of listening to true stories about the most successful people, and how long it took them to become a success. * Why it isn’t a problem that there are things you aren’t good at. * Some of the areas of your business that will feel impossible at first. * How to start being good at not being good at things.

Mentioned on the Show:

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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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Brooke Castillo

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Maybe I’m Just Not Good at This.

Hello everybody. How are my entrepreneur friends? I want to talk to you about being not good at things, maybe it’s whatever kind of coaching program you offer or whatever service you provide. Maybe you’re new to that. Maybe you’re trying to build a coaching practice or let’s say you’re an interior designer, you’re trying to build an interior design business. It’s tempting if you’re new, you don’t have a lot of experience, you don’t have a lot of happy satisfied clients or a portfolio of beautiful pictures for your brain to say, “Maybe I’m just not good at this”, when you’re starting out.

And even if you know you’re really good at whatever it is that you do, maybe you are worried that you’re not good at all the other things necessary to run your own business. Maybe I’m just not good at sales. Maybe I’m just not good at marketing. Maybe I’m not good at Instagram reels. Maybe I’m not good at writing emails or making offers or figuring out Facebook Ads. How about technology, I’m just not good. There’s usually not even a maybe at the beginning when people say this to me.

They’re like, “I’m just not good at technology. I really struggle with it. I get really overwhelmed.” I’m just not good at managing my time. I’m just not good at sticking to what I said I was going to do. So many things to be not good at when you’re an entrepreneur. Here’s what I want to tell you. Of course you’re not good at it, you’re not. A lot of times people try to answer that part of the brain that says, “Maybe you’re not good at it”, with, “No, you are, you’re good at it, keep going, you can do it.”

And if that works, great, do it. I have just found for me that doesn’t work because I already know that I’m not good at something if I haven’t done it very much and it doesn’t come natural to me or especially if I haven’t done it at all or especially if it just doesn’t fall in my wheelhouse of my natural skills and talents and things that I am intrigued by and fascinated by. And that’s the way it goes when you’re an entrepreneur.

Maybe you consider yourself to be really creative, a more organic type thinker, okay, great. That can work really well and serve you really well. No matter what kind of business you run you’re going to need creativity and you’re going to need to be flexible and you’re going to need to be able to think organically. But that means the part that’s more linear, logical, prescriptive is going to be harder for you and you’re not going to be good at it especially in the beginning but maybe you’ll never be amazing at it.

And let’s say you’re a more logical linear type of thinker, okay, great, that’s going to serve you really well as you go to build your business. But there are going to be parts of building your business that require creativity and flexibility and a more organic way of thinking. And those parts might be hard for you. You might not be good at them. You might be terrible at them and you might never get amazing at them, okay, so what? So what?

I think there’s, I don’t know about you but there’s this part of my brain that thinks that there just are people who are just magically talented and they don’t have to get good at all of these things. Because they’re so amazing or skilled or just likable or magical in some way that they just get plucked out of the crowd by someone who gives them opportunities and money and success. Am I the only one that thinks this?

I love to listen to bios, bios, they don’t have to be audio bios but I love listening to true stories about really successful famous people because I’m always so shocked at how long it took most of them to become successful. And at how bad they messed up along the way, how bad they were at so many things or, and/or I should say, usually there’s a lot of that. And there’s also in many cases a lot of really hard situations they’ve gone through in their lives to no fault of their own, just circumstances that came along, family situations or health challenges or what have you.

The level of struggle and the amount of time and the perseverance and the deciding not to quit and the keeping on going and building themselves up even when they’d been literally torn down by the results or by someone or something happening in their life is astounding to me. And then it makes me go, “Of course, that’s why they have the level of success that they have is because they had the level of failure over and over again and hardship and trial. And for some reason they kept going anyway.” They were willing to be terrible at things.

I say this a lot but it really is life changing being willing to be terrible at things. Now, you don’t have to be trying to become a celebrity or achieve some super high level success. And if you are that’s fine too. But if you’re like, “I’m not trying to do that. I’m not trying to be Oprah or Chip and Joanna Gaines here. I just want to have a thriving business that brings in a nice income for myself and my family and provides a nice quality of life.” That is noble too.

That’s amazing too. But it’s still going to require perseverance and failure and getting up and trying again when it doesn’t work and then doing that over and over and over and over again to learn the things you need to learn and become the person you need to become to achieve what you want. It really is. It might not require as catastrophic of level of failure when you’re aiming a little bit, I don’t want to say smaller but just a little bit more easygoing but it may. It may.

So here’s the thing. I am really good at being not good at things, I am. I just, I don’t know what happened. When I went through coach training nine years ago something clicked in my head when I heard Brooke Castillo say, “You have to be willing to be bad at it. You’re going to be terrible at it, it’s fine. You’re going to be terrible at coaching in the beginning.” You are, you’re not a good coach in the beginning because you don’t have enough experience to be a great coach. You’re an okay coach, you’re a so, so coach, you’re good enough.

You’re not going to hurt anybody if you pay attention in coach training and depending on where you’re trained or what you do. I’m not saying you’re going to harm anyone but you’re not going to be great at it, you’re really not. That’s why in the beginning I coached people for free. I said, “Come and get some help from me, I promise it will change your life. And I’m not even great at it and it’s still going to change your life. Are you ready? Let’s go.”

And then I said, “Come and get some coaching from me at a really phenomenal rate. I’m getting better but I still have a long ways to go but I have tools that are going to change your life. Are you ready? It’s going to cost you not that much, you’d better get in right now because one day it’s going to cost a lot.” I just knew that. So you don’t have to pretend you’re really good at it, you really don’t, it’s okay to be not good at it. The key is just are you willing to be not good at it? And sometimes you will be terrible at it, sometimes you will fail.

Some of your marketing is going to fail miserably. You’re going to write sales copy that’s going to suck, it’s not going to convert at all. You’re going to run ads that are going to lose money if you put money into them. Or you’re going to have conversations with people that don’t want anything to do with you, that are like, “Ugh, get away.” They probably won’t say it that way but they’ll just start to not answer your emails or calls or texts. You are going to do all that.

You’re going to say it the wrong way. You’re going to accidentally offend someone. You’re going to put out content that is cringy. At least, I don’t know any way around that. I don’t know anyone that’s succeeding that didn’t start by being pretty bad at it and maybe there will be again a couple things that happen to fall within your zone of genius that you’ll be naturally a lot better at than the average person. But there’ll still be a whole bunch of other things that you’re terrible at, so now what? Are you willing to just be terrible at it? Own it.

Say it out loud. It makes me feel better to just own it with people like, “Hey, I’m going to do this thing with you but just so you know it’s my first time. I’ve no idea what I’m doing. I’ll probably make some mistakes. I want you to know I’m going to take care of you. I will do my best to correct those mistakes but here’s my best guess as of now, let’s go. “That’s the way you do it. I just see people shut down when they’re not good at things. Sometimes I coach people, as a coach my job is to give you true honest feedback.

And some people want the honest feedback and that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t still hurt a little when somebody tells you that you’re not doing it right or that you whatever, especially depending on how they deliver the feedback. I feel I’m pretty soft about how I deliver it but it still doesn’t ever feel great. What we want to be told is, “You’re amazing at that, you did it perfectly, keep going.” But if that were the truth then we would already be at the level of the goal that we’re seeking to achieve and then we would probably have a next level goal which means there’s a bunch of other things that we’re not good at now.

So the solution is to learn to be not good at things and the better you can get at that the faster you’ll succeed because the more you struggle and are willing to be terrible at something the faster you’ll get good at it. And if you’re willing to be terrible publicly then you can get the necessary feedback to know how to improve. Here’s what I mean, when I decided earlier, I don’t know when it was, last year sometime. I was like, “Okay, I’m going to have to do some reels on Instagram because that’s what’s converting on Instagram.”

And if I want to keep using Instagram to try to get my message out then I’m going to have to play the game a little bit and reels are hands down the way. I don’t know if that’s still the case but they were at this point last year. And I was just like, “I don’t know how to make a reel.”

I remember sitting in the drive-thru at Chick-fil-A with my daughter who’s a teenager and saying, “Can you help me figure out how to do this reel thing, how do people do this where it looks like they’re in their pajamas and they jump in the air and the next thing you know they’re in their clothes? How does any of this work? How do you put music to it? How do you put words to it? How do you do it?” And it really only took 10 minutes for my teenager.

She had never done a reel either but of course being a teenager she just clicked around and tried a few things and she went like, “It goes like this.” And she taught me. I was like, “Okay, I understand the technology kind of well enough.” Now I have to go try to create some content and all I know to do is to try to imitate a little bit of what I’ve seen and make it my own. That’s what we do at first. And it’s cringy because it’s not me. It’s me trying to emulate what I’ve seen someone else do. And that’s always going to be cringey but that’s where I have to start anyway.

And as I did that more and more I figured out what are reels for me and for my clients in my business because a reel is actually just a short video. Once I learned that it helped a lot. I was like, “Wait, I thought a reel meant you have to be pointing at words or you have to be jumping and changing clothes or you have to be whatever.” And it could be those things. That might work well in your business. A reel is just a short video that you happen to have a lot of pretty amazing tools to edit in a really more engaging way really fast and easily thanks to Instagram. That’s it, it’s just a short video.

So how do I want to use short videos to best serve my clients, to get my message out? And then I got really good at reels. I got much better at reels anyway. I still have a long way to go actually. I’m just not as bad at them as I was in the beginning. But you know what? Some of my reels are kind of cringy, some of them still are actually. But in the beginning most of them were.

Okay, I’m willing to be bad at it and put it on social media where I have quite a few followers, you know why? When I see what people respond to, when I see how things perform then I get some feedback about what to do differently or what to try next time or what to never do again. And also when other people who are really good at Instagram see those reels and they can give me some tips and pointers. But if I’m sitting at home waiting to get good at it, that’s a no.

So the way I chose to dive in and I’m just using this as an example, pick one little thing that you think it would be really useful if I got better at that. With reels I said, “Alright, I’m going to do”, this was last fall, maybe September-ish. And I said, “I’m going to do a reel every day from now till the end of the year.” And I wasn’t 100% on that but I was probably 80/85%, B minus, that’s what we aim for. That’s a lot of reels for someone who had never done a reel.

So you have to be willing to be not good at things. I started to say this earlier but I might have lost my train of thought but I was saying as a coach sometimes I give people feedback. And they cringe and they can’t handle it and they shut down and they’re so upset and they go into shame and drama and overwhelm and they talk about it for weeks after like, “Can you believe Jody told me this?”

I’m just like, “Whoa, you know what, you’ve got to thicken up your skin a little bit. You’ve got to be willing to get your own back. Maybe the answer is okay, thanks for your input, Jody Moore, I’ll take it into consideration.” And maybe your thought is, no, Jody’s wrong. I am perfectly fine with that. I would much rather you go to, “I disagree. I hear what you’re saying Jody Moore and I disagree.” That is going to serve you so much better than shutting down and moving into drama and freaking out. Don’t do that. Don’t do that.

Be willing to be ‘bad’ at things, even your craft, even the thing that you ultimately want to do, so whether that be your coaching or your interior design or the breath work that you do. Maybe you’re bad at that at first. Okay, just promise not to hurt anybody and then be upfront about the fact that you’re new and you’re testing stuff out and you’re going to take care of people. You’re going to be really generous in the process but you need practice and experience to get better. That is the way you get better.

After the book learning, that should be the shortest part but most of us want to make it the longest part then you just have to be willing to be bad at things. And don’t pretend to be good. I see people go, “No, I got this. I’m really good at this.” And then they’re terrible at it and it’s way worse than if they just say, “Hey, I want to try this thing, I want to get good at it but the truth is I don’t really know how. I don’t have a lot of experience. Give me a chance and then I’ll welcome your feedback.” Or, “Give me some guidance and I will implement it and then give me some feedback and help me get better.”

All of us are actually really open to other people being bad when they’re really upfront and honest about it. What we don’t like is somebody trying to pretend that they’re really good at something and then they’re not. It feels fake. We don’t connect with that. But if somebody was like, “I’m not good at this at all but I do have some things I’ve learned. I want to test it out. I want to get better at it. I want to give you a killer deal. I want to help you for free or make it really inexpensive and I welcome your feedback. And I promise I’ll be making changes as I figure out how to get better at it.”

That’s kind of a beautiful thing. Alright, you’ve got to be willing to be bad at things. And even when you get good at those things like I said, there will be a whole new set of things that you’ll be bad at. So this is a skill that is not just necessary for new business owners or entrepreneurs. This is necessary ongoing even if you’re like, “I like where my business is at, I don’t want it to grow. I don’t want to change it.” Okay, but the world around you is going to change so you’re going to have to constantly be making improvements at least to your business in order to even just maintain where it’s at.

I mean think about pizza places before there was delivery. There were pizza places, I remember when I worked in corporate, one of our leaders used to tell this story about this pizza place, this was in California where I wasn’t raised. So he would name the pizza place, I don’t remember the name now but everyone would go, “Oh yeah, I remember that place, it was really good.” And he was like, “When was the last time you saw one?” And everyone said, “I haven’t seen one for a long time.”

He said, “That’s because they didn’t want to deliver pizza.” They said, “No, we’re good. We want to just stay where we are.” But the rest of the world started delivering pizza and because they weren’t willing to change, you don’t have to want to grow but you’re going to have to change at some point to keep up with changing times. And they went out of business because they weren’t willing to. So change is inevitable but it’s a beautiful thing.

I want you to master the skill of being okay with being terrible at things. Are you in? Alright, thanks for joining me everyone. I’ll see you next week. Take care.

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The post Entre-Talk: Maybe I’m Just Not Good at This appeared first on Jody Moore.

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In today’s world, where there’s a heavy focus on division, we need to dig deeper and make more effort to truly connect and foster unity, without losing sight of our values or needing to change our opinions. My guest this week has a real talent for helping us look at all sides of a situation in a way that fosters unity, and I know you’re going to love her.

Julie Rose has been a radio journalist for 20 years. Her reporting has won multiple awards, but last year, Julie began experiencing the urge to avoid the news entirely because of the anxiety and anger she felt after being exposed to the daily news cycle. She knew she couldn’t be alone in this experience, so she switched to a weekly podcast that tackles tough topics in a way that’s honest and probing, but also leaves the audience feeling empathetic and empowered.

Tune in this week to discover how to start fostering unity in your daily life, whoever you are, whatever your values are. Julie is sharing her experience of listening to others with empathy, her insight around managing uncomfortable emotions in conversation, and some stick-with-it moments from her career that we can all learn from.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why this subject of fostering unity is so important in our modern world. * How constantly consuming the news left Julie anxious, angry, and bummed out. * Why listening to and understanding the other side of an argument actually makes you a better advocate for what you care about. * Julie’s experience of feeling triggered by topics in interviews she was giving, and how she chose to react. * Why you don’t need to be afraid of listening to viewpoints that differ from your own. * Proof that you can process emotion about things that make you uncomfortable without needing to act on it. * How to have more productive conversations with people who have opposing opinions. * What gives Julie the courage to dive in and have conversations that might make other people uncomfortable.

Mentioned on the Show:

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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 398, Fostering Unity with Julie Rose.

Hey there everybody, welcome to the podcast today. I am so excited to introduce you to my guest, Julie Rose. I’m going to just begin by reading her bio and then tell you a little bit about how I was introduced to her and her work. Says, Julie Rose has been a radio journalist for 20 years, reporting for NPR local stations in Salt Lake City and Charlotte, North Carolina as well as network shows including Morning Edition and All Things Considered.

Her feature in News Reporting won multiple national and regional Edward R. Murrow awards. In 2015 Julie began hosting BYU radio’s daily live radio show on SiriusXM 143 called Top of Mind. And went on to win a Gracie Award for radio hosting. After several years on the air daily, Julie began fighting the urge to avoid the news completely because of how anxious and angry it made her feel.

She knew she couldn’t be alone in that so in 2022 Top of Mind became the answer. Switching to a weekly podcast that tackles tough topics in a way that’s honest and probing but also leaves people feeling empathetic and empowered. Find Top of Mind with Julie Rose anywhere you listen to podcasts.

So I was contacted by Julie Rose or somebody on her team and asked to be a guest on Top of Mind. And it was such an amazing experience, Julie is truly a top notch reporter in that their podcast is produced at such a high level. I started listening to it after being introduced to Julie and invited to be on her show. And discovered that she truly does have a talent for helping you look at all sides of a situation in a way that fosters unity.

And I feel like in today’s world where there’s so much division and such a focus on division that anybody who is doing the tough work Julie’s doing of digging in and helping us connect more with one another without losing sight of our values, without having to change our opinions is so needed and it felt just so comforting to me, the interaction that I’ve had with Julie. So I’m very excited for you to hear a little bit from her about how she’s done that, how it’s impacted her and how we can all do that in our daily lives.

You don’t have to host a podcast in order to foster this in your daily life. So before I turn it over to my conversation with Julie Rose, let me remind you that we are currently open for Wellness Week. If you’ve ever considered coaching and wondered and been curious about whether or not you even would have time for it or if it would help you find the relief that you’re looking for then make sure you check out Wellness Week, it’s $19, what have you got to lose? Come and check it out.

If you can’t attend live you don’t have to be there live to get the complete experience. We will be sending out replays as well. So head to jodymoore.com/intensive to join me for the upcoming Wellness Week. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Julie Rose.

Jody: Alright, well, I’m so excited to talk with you today. I love so much the work that you’re doing and I’m excited to have you share some insight today. Let’s begin with just a bit of an introduction if you wouldn’t mind, telling people who you are and what you do. All your private information.

Julie: Well, I’m excited to be here. I am an open book so we’ll get as in depth as you want. So I have been a radio journalist for 20 years and that included earlier on in my career doing public radio reporting for stations in Salt Lake City and then in North Carolina. And then in 2015 I started hosting a daily live radio show for BYU Radio called Top of Mind heard on satellite radio so it was every single day for two hours live on the radio.

Jody: That’s intense.

Julie: It was a lot talking about – and it was interviews. So interviewing people about all kinds of different things. Experts on, we did politics and if it was in the news, if it was top of mind we would talk about it. So I had to be up on a lot of big, big, big things going on all the time. And my hidden secret was that a couple of years into that, so we were live on the air for seven years. And several years into that I was dying because I didn’t want to listen to the news.

It was my job to be listening to the news all the time, and so first thing I woke up in the morning and I’m listening to the news, the headlines and the podcasts and when I’m driving. And I wasn’t listening to any music, it was just news, news, news because I needed to be up on what was going on in the world all the time and it was bumming me out. And I am a lifelong anxious person medicated for 20+ years. It was constantly I was into these anxiety spirals where it was making me angry and worried.

And so I would go through these spells where I could not muster the energy to listen to the news and I was trying not to tell anybody about that because I can’t be a journalist and not listen to the news.

Jody: Your job kind of depended on it.

Julie: So it was this constant battle. And I had to believe that I wasn’t the only one. There actually is some really interesting data. I’ve recently learned about, that 40% of Americans avoid the news, actively avoid the news at some point frequently in their lives for a lot of the same reasons.

Jody: I would be one of those, yeah.

Julie: Yeah, I mean because it’s depressing or it feels hopeless or because it feels like it disagrees with your own viewpoint or whatever it is, lots and lots of reasons. For me it was mostly just that it was fueling my anxiety in a way that was outpacing my medication.

Jody: It was canceling it out, yeah.

Julie: It was no longer working as well. So the way this ties into the podcast is that almost exactly a year ago in 2022 our management invited us to go to a weekly format and kind of shuffle it all up. And that was the chance for us to create a podcast that was going to address this problem that I was having and I felt I knew a lot of other people were having too. To be able to in a thoughtful way engage with the big issues because I want to be engaged with, I don’t want to have my head buried in the sand all the time, that didn’t feel good either.

So I want to be thinking deeply but also it needs to be in a way where it’s thoughtful and it’s not just about raising my blood pressure with people yelling or telling me how I should be thinking. And ideally leave me feeling hopeful and empowered at the end of the 52 minutes or whatever. So that is what we have taken on and it actually is, it’s the podcast for anxious people who want to be engaged in the world. So that’s Top of Mind currently weekly everywhere you get your podcasts.

Jody: I love it. So that’s Top of Mind, it is on all the podcast platforms as well as BYU Radio?

Julie: Exactly. So you can get it on the BYU Radio website or the BYU Radio app. Or if you happen to live in Utah you can hear it on 107.9 FM. But the way to get the latest episodes once a week is on our podcast feed which is Top of Mind with Julie Rose, yeah.

Jody: Okay, perfect. And then recently you’ve launched a series within that podcast, the Stick With It series which is how you and I connected.

Julie: Yes and I’m so excited to have our listeners hear some of your story on our podcast. So we started as we were creating the podcast, I started realizing that I was having these moments where I was feeling myself, as we’re trying to get perspectives that are diverse and we’re not doing a lot of yelling. But we really want to probe these moments where you feel, okay, that feels a little challenging to the way I see things or I don’t agree with that perspective.

And I found this, I was having these moments as we were doing the interviews because we’re tackling big stuff. Affirmative action and race and I’ll tell you maybe a little later about the most recent episode that we did, that I really had a moment like this where I realized I was coming to a moment in the interviews where I could feel my – I’m like, “But what about, what about?” As I was trying to grapple with the idea. And feeling that discomfort and having to kind of stay open and curious and use some of the mindfulness techniques that I’d learned in my quest to conquer my anxiety.

And I always would get to a place then where if I could keep my defenses down long enough to really listen with curiosity and empathy, I would come to some kind of new realization. And it wouldn’t necessarily change my mind. Sometimes it would just give me more clarity so I could better express my own viewpoint on the issue. In our daily life I feel these moments happen all the time. We call that a stick with it moment.

So you come up against a perspective that feels challenging, your natural defense is to, I’m going to shut down and go back to my safe place because this is not working for me or this feels really uncomfortable and instead you make the active choice to stick with that discomfort and see what happens when you can stay open to it rather than shut down. And so we started talking to people about, “What does this look like in your daily life?” Because I feel it happens a lot in encounters with other people, in sort of professional realizations or personal realizations.

And people have told us in sharing of these stories that it deepens a relationship or it renews a relationship, that they were on the verge of shutting down because the discomfort was so difficult over this issue that they disagreed with. Or that they had to do some soul searching and now feel like they’re a better citizen or a kinder neighbor or even a more effective advocate. And so the podcast is kind of a weekly, for me it’s a frequent exercise personally as we put the podcast together.

And we’re creating it as a way that you can practice having a stick with it moment about a big issue. And then kind of take that skill of, I can sit with that discomfort. I can actually be open and curious and have empathy for this other perspective and the world didn’t end actually that made me better. It made me a better advocate for what I care about.

Jody: And here’s what I love about what you’re saying is that in those interviews when you were having a bunch of thoughts and you were feeling triggered and feeling emotional about the topic. You chose because it was your professional role and the way you wanted to show up, to stick with it as you’re describing. You chose to not react or lash out or let those emotions overtake you which is such powerful proof that we have the ability to do that. It doesn’t mean we’re perfect at it or that we always choose it.

But my mission is always teaching people, we have more power over our own thoughts and therefore over our own experience in what we contribute in the world than we realize. And when people say, “Well, what do you mean? If something’s going to call me this name or say this thing how can I not get upset? How can I not be angry or hurt or scared or stressed?” Not to say that you shouldn’t. I’m not trying to turn anybody into robots but it’s such a great example of listen, if you were on TV or on the radio interviewing someone you would be able to for a little while manage yourself.

Julie: Yeah. So like I said, I’ve had anxiety for my whole life. I was a massively anxious little kid. I remember I was in my third grade and my teacher was like, “You’ve got to deal with Julie because she is so anxious all the time that she’s disrupting the classroom.” Because the minute they would say, “Here’s what needs to happen.” I’d be like, “Yeah, but, and how about I do this and what about this?”

I couldn’t deal with all the intrusive thoughts and so my dad, who happened to be a therapist, was really good at coaching me and giving me all these self-cues and reminders to try and control that. But I spent most of my life I think, I think as a result partly of his training as a cognitive behavioral therapist. I somehow got the idea that I could just control it all, that I could somehow just control my thoughts, that when the anxiety came along I could just sort of say, “Bye bye”, and shut the door.

I spent up until basically 2018, I am now hanging on by my fingernails. The medicine helped a little bit but I was frequently just overwhelmed with the anxiety spirals.

Jody: Sorry to interrupt. Do you think you were resisting it?

Julie: 100%. I was under the impression that I just needed to wrangle control of my intrusive thoughts and my anxiety and my emotions and kind of just grab it all and control it and turn it in the right direction. And I got to a point, long story short in 2018 where it was not working. I was waking up in the middle of the night in an anxiety panic or I was raging all the time over things, short fuse. And I was like, “I’ve got to fix this but I don’t want to just take more medicine because I don’t think that’s the answer.”

Yeah, so I actually ended up signing up for mindfulness training. So it’s actually the MBS, our Mindfulness Based Stress reduction. Anyway, it was an eight week course where I went in thinking mindfulness, I don’t know but I’m desperate. I’ve got to try something. I’m perfectly mindful of what I’m experiencing and it’s a problem. So I had this moment of clarity after a couple of these sessions. We’d go for three hours once a week and we’d just sit on bolsters and we would just breathe and it was very much outside of my comfort zone.

But in the meditations, our instructor was talking about how when the intrusive thoughts are coming I’m like, “I can’t clear my mind. I can’t clear my mind.” And he’s like, “That’s not the point. The point is to acknowledge and recognize them for what they are, to be present in your body.” Which I had never really paid much attention to. And so this image that became so powerful for me was just the idea of, I can sit on the edge of a river and watch all of my anxious thoughts kind of flowing by in front of me. And I can just kind of relax and be like, “Hi, I see you, okay. That’s interesting.”

With curiosity like you were talking about, in these moments of anxiety if I’m open to it, I’m curious about it but not try to close it off or lock it down. I thought that was going to lead me into the depths of rumination. And it turned out that if I would just sit and stop fighting and kind of acknowledge for what it was and stay curious and focus on my breathing and recognize how my body was responding that it would actually pass. I never figured that out, for years of my life I’d never figured that out. So that was a moment where I was like, “Oh my goodness, okay.”

Jody: That’s beautiful.

Julie: Okay, so now, and that was also my engagement in news and engaging. The Stick With It idea was that I was often sort of resisting or feeling like I needed to jump in and clarify my view or argue or whatever because I needed to do something about these thoughts and these emotions rather than just be curious about them. But also be willing to say, “Okay, I’m uncomfortable here, tell me more.”

Jody: Yeah, that’s so beautiful. That’s what we call processing emotion in my world and it’s allowing it, being in your body with it, experiencing it. Because even though you’re aware, these are just thoughts. Recently I heard a fellow coach say, “They’re not just thoughts, they’re thoughts which are super powerful, creating reactions in your body.” But they’re not facts, they’re not truths. They don’t have to control you. You can process emotion without acting out on it.

I wanted to ask you too and I’d love for you to share, like you said, some examples of some of the conversations you’ve had in Stick With It. I know, I listened to specifically the abortion talks which was amazing.

Julie: Can we talk about that for a minute because that is maybe my very favorite Stick With It story of all time? We can do it in a minute if you want.

Jody: Yes, I definitely want you to share that with us. Before we dive in I wanted to just kind of tie all of this around the idea of unity because I feel there’s a lot of talk right now and there has been for years now of how divided we are especially in America, in the United States that there’s so much division. And like you said, the news talks about that, I think we’ve all observed that. What I realized at some point myself was that if I wanted to be part of the solution I have to stop looking for and thinking about and focusing on division.

And I have to start looking for and thinking about and focusing on unity if what we want is unity. And I think that sometimes at least I know for me, my simple mind thinks that unity would mean that we all agree. And unity doesn’t mean, we actually need people to have opposing viewpoints and we need to be able to disagree. And that’s what I loved about the story you shared in the abortion talk. So I’ll let you share whatever you want to about that.

Julie: You know, it’s so interesting that you say that about unity because just the other day I was telling someone. I’m like, “So one of the reasons we’re so polarized in this world is because we haven’t learned how to disagree and still get along and be together and be united.” Because somebody was saying, “I don’t think getting along is the problem because I avidly disagree with my son on political issues so we just don’t talk about it.” He’s like, “We get along great as long as we’re not talking about religion or race or politics.”

Jody: Money, yeah.

Julie: And I’m like, “Okay, but is that, I mean that’s certainly a way to keep the peace.” But I think there’s a higher law, I think there is a way to kind of go better, one better and that is to understand how to really understand one another’s differences and not just sort of fine, you believe that and I disagree with you, absolutely. And we’ll just have to agree to disagree. But to really come to a place where we care deeply about one another and we disagree at the same time. And maybe the fact that we disagree can bring us closer together.

And that is what just blew my mind about the abortion talks story. So the backstory people need to understand and this is actually one of our most recent episodes on the Top of Mind podcast. So people can go listen to it as well to get all the full details. But the short of it is, that there was a period in the 90s where the abortion debate in America, there were supreme court cases that were sort of refining the Roe vs. Wade ruling.

And there were protests all across the country but Boston had sort of become the epicenter because of its very liberal politics among a lot of the population and elected officials but also because of the Catholic church’s presence and the diocese. The cardinal had a very strong voice there. So weekly protests out in front of abortion clinics and things had gotten really heated. It felt like a [inaudible] the folks who were there at the time said. And a giant tragedy strikes, an anti-abortion activist went to a couple of abortion clinics and killed several women. I mean it was a trauma.

And the abortion activists, the leaders of the movements on both sides of the issue in Boston at the time knew they had to do something but they didn’t know what. Clearly we disavow this man who did this but also how have we contributed, they took some ownership, how have we contributed to that rhetoric, the level of anger and vitriol? And secretly six leaders so three on the pro-choice side, that’s the label they choose for themselves and three on the pro-life side which is the label they prefer.

They were invited to secretly meet for a couple of sessions and talk and all of the women said, “What’s the point? First of all I disagree with these people so fundamentally I will never change my mind.” And they were scared. They were terrified in the way that you might be scared if you were going into the room with somebody who fundamentally believed you were evil in some way which is how they had kind of come to see this on this really difficult issue that strikes so closely to the heart of so much of what people believe.

Anyway, so they were like, “Look, we’re not going to change our minds but if you think that talking a couple of times is going to make a difference, fine, because we’ve got to do something. We’ve got to bring down the temperature.” Well, over the course of those four meetings they find themselves so engaged in one another they had to very early on establish, and this is all done in secret because they didn’t want their movements to know. They realized early on that they’re not going to agree on anything.

They’re not even looking for common ground but the dialogues were structured in a way that they all had to agree on what words they could use for one another, which is really important. They had to establish a level of trust and respect for one another. Ultimately they went on for six years. Six years of meeting once a month secretly. They would just disappear. And one of them said that their assistant thought they were having an affair because they would just mysteriously disappear for an hour once a month. Nobody knew this was going on.

And in the course of it these six women came to care for one another deeply, to see one another as human. And the amazing thing for me was two things, first of all the result was that it brought down the tenor, the rhetoric of how they were speaking about the issue. They could no longer use dehumanizing language or inflammatory language in the same way because they had sat so often across from one another sharing meals together. And hearing one another’s personal stories about why they felt so strongly about abortion in the way that they felt.

So they automatically started, brought down the rhetoric and people outside who didn’t know the meetings were happening knew that something had changed. That these women were refusing to go on television and debate each other with the same kind of rancor that they might have done before. They weren’t writing such inflammatory words about the opposite side in their opinion pieces in the newspaper. So they made a huge change just by coming to care for one another. They become really, really close friends.

At the end of it they go public, they write this op ed in the Boston Globe that makes national news. People are shocked, how could you possibly sit together. And then a lot of people like me couldn’t, I still even after all of that, reading their article and stuff I’m like, “But what did you accomplish?”

Jody: What was the point? Yeah.

Julie: Yeah. So the rhetoric mattered but they also talked about the value for them personally was that they came to be better advocates for their views. Nobody changed their mind on the topic of abortion. They actually got stronger in their own views by listening openly and with curiosity to the opposing view that they disagreed with. They worked really hard to not debate and argue but to listen was the fundamental piece, listen and share of what they did for those six years. So as a result they became better advocates, more effective advocates for their own views.

They got more clarity plus they deepened a relationship and built empathy. And I just think it’s so counterintuitive but it’s stunning to think in our own lives. So then I started thinking, well, gosh, how could I take that model with a family member who has very different political views than me. And so many times those conversations have ended terribly because I have gone in there and felt compelled to counter their viewpoint. It starts well because I say, “Tell me, why do you support this politician?” And then they’ll say, “Well, because they did this and this and this.”

And I’m like, “Well, you’re just spouting what you heard on Fox News, tell me more.” Or, “You’re just spouting what you heard on MSNBC but what about this.” Or, “You know that that’s not right.” And immediately I’m in, “Well, let me tell you my viewpoint now.” Instead of being like, “Interesting, tell me more, what is your personal experience with that issue then? Do you remember the first time you really came to feel this way? Is this new for you? And how do you feel about people who have an opposing view?”

Go in trying to understand and kind of just sit with the discomfort of hearing all this stuff that challenges me can deepen a relationship which is appealing to me. But also hopefully make me better at expressing my own perspective.

Jody: And when you say, Julie, that it made, in the abortion talks, it made these women more effective advocates. What I love about their story is not only effective at standing up for the cause that they believe in but effective in that they’re doing it with respect for the opposing side. Like you said, they’re minimizing the judgment and the negative hateful language and to me that’s ultimately what we want. I mean you think of an issue like abortion, it’s about human life and it’s about the value we have for human beings both their life and their agency.

Julie: Yeah. You could not find an issue more sort of deeply tied to what people believe about the essence of being a human. And another thing that I felt was very interesting because then part of the episode couldn’t we also just not talk about it? Wouldn’t that be another option?

Jody: It would be easier.

Julie: Safer, easier. And one of the experts I talked to said, “Well, look, when you have an issue like this where there is so much – where it’s so deeply tied to what people believe and there’s so little interest among most people in changing their actual viewpoint on the issue. What’s the point in talking if you’re not going to convince people to your side? Well, the point can be that if you can build a bridge across that one issue and come to at least respect one another as human beings with dignity who have opposing views but feel very strongly for very human reasons.

Come to understand that the nuance of that then you’re able to see, it’s like you can get that out of the way so that you can actually then focus on a lot of issues where you might actually have common ground but you’re so busy not working together on solving those issues. Whether it’s child poverty or whether it’s supporting families or whether it’s pregnancy prevention or whatever it is.

If you’re so busy, they’re the enemy, we disagree, we’ll never see each other. Then you actually are missing a lot of opportunities to say, “Alright, now I’m very clear about how you feel and how I feel and we feel we can respect each other but guess what. We can also communicate and work together and I trust you enough to be able to try to work with you on some of these other issues. We can get a lot more done if we’re not.”

And I think what’s happened, unfortunately a lot of the polarization that we’re experiencing is because it’s so easy today to basically create a little bubble where you don’t have to engage with anyone you disagree with on anything deeply meaningful. Social media feeds and I mean the housing patterns are such that we’re very, very segregated politically and racially in America today. And with so many media options you don’t have to be exposed to another side of an issue unless you choose it.

You just can pick the outlet that fits your world view and then we’re never challenged so we don’t really have the practice of understanding how to sit and listen to an opposing view.

Jody: Yeah. And one thing I just want to add on to what you’re saying is that technology is so smart nowadays. It feeds our confirmation bias so even in the morning when I wake up and I have alerts from the news app on my phone, it’s not giving me a cross section of the news, it’s giving me news stories that it thinks I will click on. I know this because I get a lot of stories about what Disneyland rides are open or closed because my kids are obsessed with Disneyland. I’m like, “That’s not the big thing happening in the news.” But that’s what appears when I open my phone.

It’s reinforcing my own confirmation bias and I want to connect the dots too to what you’re saying and the work that I do with people personally, people who are listening to this podcast who are trying to develop themselves is that the better you get at loosening up that tight grip on your thoughts, obviously it helps us be better in relationships, better in our communities, better citizens. But for you personally we all have thoughts even about ourselves that if we were wrong about that that would be a huge relief.

And I feel when you are willing to consider that either you’re wrong or at least you don’t have the full picture or your misunderstanding or prejudging then you become empowered to do that even in your own life. So I had this experience when I was in college, I went to Utah State and for one of my political sciences classes we went down to the Capitol in Salt Lake and sat in the rooms where the senate meets and everything. And they wanted us to experience a little bit of a mock debate.

And so they gave us an issue like should we be selling cigarettes in vending machines at high schools or colleges or something? I don’t remember. Whatever it was I remember immediately going, no, we shouldn’t. That was my thought, no, why would we do that, that’s a terrible idea.

Julie: I don’t need to think about this anymore, easy.

Jody: And then as the opposing side started presenting their reasons and their logic all of a sudden I started seeing, again, I don’t know that I’m changing my mind but they’re making some valid points that I had never considered. Yes, cigarettes are terrible for their health but so are the food that we serve in the vending machines at the schools. Anyway they just had some points and I was like, “I can see where you’re coming from on that one.”

And just that one experience opened my mind to there is so much more to any story or argument than what my simple mind realizes. And it’s natural for us to go talk about issues with all the people that already agree with us. I’m the same way. I listen to the podcast, I watch the news, I talk to people who agree with me.

Julie: Yeah. But it’s terrifying to think that you’re going to have to go in and maybe not actually be able to defend your viewpoint as effectively. I don’t feel always very confident. I don’t want to lose an argument so in some ways it’s easier to not have to go and have these tougher conversations because what if I find out for example that my viewpoint actually causes harm. That feels terrible.

Or what if I find out that because I thought I knew everything I needed to know that I have been missing out on some big opportunity or I have intentionally turned my back on something that could have made my life better. And it was because of my ignorance and I’m terrified to discover that too. It’s safer and easier to just feel I know what I need to know and I’m the right one and everything’s fine and this feels comfortable. And not have to be challenged, not have to stick with that discomfort.

Jody: Yeah. But if we approach it like there’s not an argument that I have to defend or win and I don’t have to agree with this person, I can just walk away going, “Huh, that’s interesting.”

Julie: And I don’t have to try to convince them, it’s not about winning an argument. That was one of the things that the women who participated in the abortion talks talked about. The hardest thing for them was as staunch advocates who were constantly called upon to voice their opinion and defend their position on abortion. That they went into these meetings and they had to learn how to not constantly be thinking of what their rebuttal was going to be.

They were asked to not debate or counter with their own perspective when someone shared something. And so which was deeply uncomfortable to sort of let go of that, let go of the, I’ve got to be thinking, what about this, what about this. And be able to just be – I don’t know, it sounds cheesy but just be present with and listening openly with empathy for the person who was sharing. And just honoring that led them to a place they couldn’t have gotten otherwise if they had been so concerned about trying to win the argument.

Jody: Yeah. And I loved how their relationships became personal. They felt supported by one another personally, even though they disagreed about this topic.

Julie: They’re really close friends. This was in the 90s. To this day they get together once every month or so and they go out for dinner and then someone orders a dessert. And they all get spoons and eat off the same plate. They’re dear friends and staunchly in disagreement with one another on this issue that they care so deeply about. It’s really stunning but for me it’s freeing. It gave me a huge amount of confidence to feel like, okay, I don’t need to be afraid of what might happen if I listen really closely to a viewpoint that is really off-putting to me or that really kind of shakes me.

I don’t have to worry that I’m going to lose my footing or that I’m going to lose my, you know, I can just listen with the goal of understanding, with empathy and it can sort of flow through me and we’re going to get to a place where I’m going to feel more clarity and that’s it. For me, it’s the best part of my job is when I’m in the middle of these interviews and I’m trying really hard to sort of listen and understand. And all of a sudden a light bulb goes on and I have this moment of clarity and it’s just thrilling and makes me a better person. I can take that into my daily life.

Jody: That’s beautiful, yeah, it’s expansive. So you alluded in the beginning to a recent interview you did that triggered some thoughts and feelings for you.

Julie: Sure. So one of the most difficult topics for me to know how to talk about or be willing to talk about publicly is race because I’m a white woman. I was raised in a predominantly white community with very little exposure to people of any other race except white. Didn’t ever really consider that race applied to me because like so many of us do, race is something that if you’re Black or you’re Brown you have a race but white is not a race. And it’s a weird thing but I’ve come to recognize.

I lived for a period of time in the south where for the first time I had the experience of being the only white person in a room when I would go out to report and realizing how little I had really thought about what race means and how it’s affected my life and the ways in which I have had opportunities and been treated in a certain way simply because of the color of my skin. So anyway it’s been quite a journey for me. I’ve had a lot of these Stick With It moments about different issues regarding race.

I tell one on the podcast about white privilege and coming to sort of feel really uncomfortable with that idea thinking I didn’t have it. Anyway, so it’s a whole long story of coming to a place where I have a clearer understanding of what whiteness might have meant in my life. But most recently I think maybe more than any other podcast I have wanted to do an episode about teaching race in schools. About this very complicated issue and people have gotten so angry over the last couple of years about CRT and whether we should teach race in schools and how we should teach it and who’s getting harmed.

And is it safe for the kids? And how are they going to end up feeling if we teach it this way or that way? I think for me the Stick With It piece of it that I wanted to share is that I really wanted to do this episode for a year and I was terrified. How are we going to do a conversation that doesn’t just raise people’s hackles so quickly that they shut down and are incapable of sticking with the discomfort? And what can we add to this when it’s clear that there is no compromise? I can’t bring two people on either side. I’ve seen all of the yelling on the school board meetings.

This just feels like one of those third real conversations that’s not going to work. So what I needed to do I realized was go find some conversations, find some people who had really complicated viewpoints. They needed to be viewpoints that people were not ever going to hear in these sort of short soundbites up on TV or on these YouTube videos.

Jody: So you wanted a well thought out?

Julie: But complicated so for example the episode includes because thought out is one, I definitely wanted someone who wasn’t just going to yell but was going to be very thoughtful about their perspective. And it had some personal, something in the game, some skin in the game, that they were affected. That they had kids in these schools who would be affected because you can go anywhere and you can find, here’s the view in support of teaching about race and slavery in this particular way. And here’s the view opposed to that.

I needed more in order to feel like I was actually able to sit with the discomfort in a way that would get me to some more clarity. So ultimately the episode turned out being one giant Stick With It experience for me because we were able to find a mother who is Black, whose children look white because their father’s white and the mother is Black but fairly light skinned. So her children are so light skinned that they are frequently assumed to be white by strangers.

And so she was able to express how much race affects her kids and the things that are going on in school when they are in this in between place where they have to out themselves as Black, they identify as Black. But people will say and do things around them not knowing that they’re Black. So they’re not necessarily experiencing racism but they’re seeing things happen, other children saying things that they wouldn’t say to a white person. And these kids are hearing it and they have their Black identity.

And so she was talking about the ways in which harm is already being done to her kids because of the lack of education about what race even is among the other kids in her school or the effects of the N word for example. So she had one very nuanced perspective because she was also saying, “Look, I would love it if their teachers could have these conversations and could lead these discussions and handle the difficulty and the emotion that’s going to come up and so that every child leaves the room feeling affirmed and not ashamed.

But that’s a lot to ask of teachers. And if they’re not equipped to handle it or confident then no, I’d rather they not do it.” We were able to find a woman who was white who has four children who are all siblings but they’re Black, they’re adopted. So she has Black children in a similarly mostly white school. And her kids are experiencing racist treatment and being called really awful things and having their color of their skin demeaned. And this mother is so concerned about how teachers and the administrators might handle it in a way that will leave their child feeling even lesser.

Her concern is I’d rather be the one that teaches all of this to them and empowers them because I know what I want my children to feel and how I want them to walk in the world and I don’t have enough confidence that the teachers with the training that they’re receiving and with the various CRT or whatever it is that informs their teaching is actually – I don’t want my kids harmed. Both of these mothers don’t want their children harmed.

Jody: And both of them feel that they could probably do a better job or handle it the way that they feel is appropriate for their children versus delegating it to a school.

Julie: Which is 100% common ground that you wouldn’t necessarily expect to find in an issue like this. But they also feel like in both cases, yeah, if we had teachers who are equipped to do this, that would be a better world for my children.

Jody: Yeah, because think of all the kids who don’t have parents at home that are going to sit down and have a conversation about race.

Julie: Exactly. And here are two mothers who have children who are affected by this issue in a way that a lot of people I think who are arguing, it’s more theoretical for us. It’s like, I’m going to take my stand but I don’t have kids in that school right now. And then we heard from a teacher who also talked about how hard it is for a teacher whose primary goal is to make sure that the children in that room at the end of every day feel fully human and fully respected in their humanity.

And how so many of these kids don’t have parents who are equipped to do these kinds of things and teachers feel like part of my job is to create better citizens in the world. And so I feel like I need to if I can but it’s hard because I don’t feel like I’m trusted. And one of the things I really came to was for me being so surprised at some of the nuance of these perspectives by these two moms that have pretty opposing views on exactly how school districts should go about this.

And a teacher who’s white who’s like, “Look, I feel insecure but I feel I need to be able to do this for my kids and I wish I had the confidence and the trust from teachers and administrators to really be able to figure this out because it’s going to be messy.” It came down to me realizing that it’s not so much an issue of curriculum, it’s an issue of trust. And how do we regain that trust? I mean I think part of it is recognizing we all have the same goal which is to make sure that kids aren’t harmed.

And if I can trust that that’s what you want even though your way to get there is different than my way to get there, can that be the foundation of these dialogues that can lead to a place where none of us changes our minds but the kids are still okay. We actually are making better socially literate children in the world. So we never come to, here’s the solution kind of thing on our podcast. But that whole episode for me from not wanting to tackle this issue at all, finally deciding I was going to commit to do it and sit with the anxiety and discomfort of feeling like what if we fail.

And really kind of lean into the most difficult perspectives possible that we could find, the most complicated perspectives of people and their identities and then just hope that we were somehow going to get to a moment where it felt like we had a little more clarity. And when we got to that moment I was like, it didn’t come, the clarity about the trust and everything for me didn’t come until we were at the final end of the editing and the scripting phase and I was like, “Oh, this has been the most painful episode to birth.”

Jody: A long time coming.

Julie: And I’ve stressed about it for so many hours and we stuck with it. And I felt we got to some place that for me was really enlightening.

Jody: That’s so beautiful.

Julie: Yeah, thanks for letting me share that.

Jody: As a journalist do you ever worry about cancel culture?

Julie: All the time. All the time. I mean my anxiety is rooted in my inability to control every outcome.

Jody: As it is for all of us, yes, that’s what anxiety is. That’s a great definition.

Julie: Okay. So for me, I want everyone to have the same experience that I had. I can’t control how people are going to perceive the words I say or the words that guests say or the way that I do the interaction with somebody in an interview. I can’t control it but that makes me crazy because I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings. I don’t want to be misunderstood. I don’t ever want to be perceived as sort of hot takes and inflaming these divisions. That’s the whole point of what I want to do.

The thing I feel I can offer the world is a way to think about these issues that kind of cut through the polarization and make a bridge. And so yes, I’m terrified of making a certain group of people so angry that they want to marshal their resources and try to brand me as something that’s the opposite of what I really see myself as. I think personally I have always been afraid of how other people will perceive me as a journalist. And so I am so careful about not saying things online.

I feel I can’t really truly speak passionately about things that matter to me out of fear that that’s going to undermine my journalistic credibility. And I would rather people not know where I stand on any issue especially as we’re doing the interview. And that I can be kind of a chameleon so I can stand in for the listener. So more so even in cancel culture I often feel this tension where there are things that I care about that I’d like to be able to be an advocate for but I’m always kind of centering myself because I worry that that will somehow undermine my credibility with people who maybe disagree on that issue.

So it’s tricky because we can’t please everybody. I know even in our Stick With It conversation that our listeners will hear from you, we can’t. We can’t be everything to everyone.

Jody: Yeah. And I guess my question for you is because there’s a lot of people who listen to this podcast that are building coaching practices for example like myself. Or some other kind of business where they’re not doing the same work you are as a journalist but they’re still putting content out there trying to help people talking about issues like challenges in marriages, infidelity, anxiety even. Topics that can offend people let’s just say. And so I’d love for you to share what gives you the courage to dive in even just having a conversation about race for example?

I know many of us, myself included, would feel, whether or not I voice my own opinions, I would be worried that I would get the verbiage wrong, that I would say it wrong, that I would offend someone. It’s such a volatile issue and there’s so many different opinions about the right way. And I couldn’t possibly even study all of those. What gives you the courage to still dive in and have those conversations even though you’re afraid?

Julie: Yeah. I have to come at it with complete and utter humility. And I am never going to put myself up as an expert on, well, really any topic except my own lived experience. The only thing I can speak to as an expert are the aspects of what it’s like to live as me in the world. Everything else is stuff that I care about or that I’m learning.

And so a lot of what I try to do is make sure and especially when we’re doing these episodes. If I’m unsure or feel especially when I’m doing topics where I’m afraid to say the wrong thing and this especially happens on topics with regard to race I try to be very honest about my own identity. And acknowledge that I may have blind spots and if I’m nervous to ask a question because I don’t know how it’s going to come off sometimes I’m not very eloquent as I’m kind of clearly trying to figure out how to say this thing.

And oftentimes what I have found is that if I’ve built enough of trust with the person I’m talking to, I can sort of say, “I want to ask this question or I really want to understand but I’m not sure how to ask it and I hope that this isn’t offensive. So please help me understand what I’m missing here. But this is what I’m perceiving, am I getting this right?” I have found that especially in conversation, I think it is entirely a different thing if I am going to put up reels on Instagram or TikTok or wherever where I am sort of saying my piece but I don’t have the authority to be able to speak about all kinds of topics.

Jody: You know you don’t need any authority to put up TikToks, just saying.

Julie: I’m never going to be a hot take person, a pundit, but when it comes to having the conversations I think it’s very much about educating yourself in advance because it never helps to just walk in ignorant and start being a bull in a China shop and just demanding answers and being told. And the other thing is your tone and your humility.

And I always, always go in acknowledging what I don’t know and in the tone of the voice and in the way that I set up the conversation and in the way that I ask questions where I’m perfectly willing to say, “I don’t really understand this. Can you help me understand what we mean by this?” And then I try to just listen with empathy and be open to the fact that I’m wrong or that I’ve had a blind spot that’s been so gigantic that it’s led me to say hurtful things in the past without realizing it and that that’s okay. I’d rather know so I don’t do it again.

Jody: Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that and thank you, Julie, for the work that you’re doing. I love your podcast so much. Everybody head over to Top of Mind podcast to hear more from Julie Rose and the guests that she’s bringing on her show. We appreciate you so much. Thanks for taking the time to come on.

Julie: Thank you, Jody, it’s been a real pleasure. I appreciate you letting me share.

Jody: And don’t forget, you can hear my episode on Top of Mind coming in the near future. Stay tuned.

Julie: That’s right, in the very near future. We’ll make sure to let everybody know. I can’t wait for people to hear your Stick With It story.

Jody: Alright, thanks, Julie.

Julie: You’re welcome. Bye, Jody.

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The post 398. Fostering Unity with Julie Rose appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I’ve often used Dan Sullivan’s concept of 10X-ing your business and applied it to my action line. Doing more and more in my business worked for a while… until it didn’t. It’s come to a point where there just isn’t enough time or energy in the world to grind more, and I’m not trying to burn myself out.

That’s when I realized that 10X-ing isn’t necessarily about doing more. It’s about thinking bigger. You can totally blow up your business just by thinking differently, expanding your ideas, and opening yourself up to all the possibilities, and you need a 10X mindset to make that happen.

Join me this week as I share my thoughts on 10X ideas, and how to look at your business through this lens. You’ll hear how to navigate unanswered questions about your business’s future, the fastest and most effective way to grow your business, and what is helping me 10X the way I’m thinking about mine.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why the concept of 10X-ing isn’t necessarily about doing more. * The truth about how to 10X your business. * Why surrounding yourself with community is essential if you’re building a business.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
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Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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10X Talk Podcast
10x Is Easier Than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: 10x Ideas.

Alright you guys, I seem to be fumbling over my words today. This is the fourth time I’ve started this podcast. Let’s see if I can get through it. I love this concept. I’m so excited to talk to you about it today. We’re going to talk about 10x ideas.

Now, I want to first of all give a shutout to Dan Sullivan. Dan Sullivan is an entrepreneurial coach and teacher and he has a podcast called 10x Talk that I listen to off and on. But he is the first person I heard talk about this idea of 10x-ing your business and having 10x ideas. and I’m told that Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy have a book coming out relatively soon. And the name of this book is what prompted me to want to do this podcast because ever since I heard there was this book coming out with this name I’ve been thinking about it.

And the book is going to be called I believe 10x is Easier than 2x. What? Isn’t that an awesome and crazy concept to consider? So the idea of 10x, again I heard long ago from Dan Sullivan, but what I did or have done in the past anyway is sort of applied that to my action line. I need to 10x what I’m doing. And then I couldn’t because I’m already doing a lot. So 10x-ing it, there’s just not that much of me or my time or my ideas to go around. And so then I would scale it back and be like, “Well, at least I’m going to double down.”

I say that a lot. I’m like, “What if we 10x it or at least let’s double down.” Because that seemed to be the only thing that was realistic and even that only in short spurts. I’m not trying to burn myself out or work myself into the ground here. But when I heard the title of this book 10x is Easier than 2x, I realized that it’s not about doing more necessarily. It’s not about grinding harder. It’s about thinking bigger.

And that’s what I’ve been challenging myself to do with this idea, 10x is Easier than 2x. I love the name because who would think that 10x-ing your business would be easier than doubling your business? That makes no sense logically to us. Why would that be easier? Here’s what I think. I think that when we try to double our business and even doubling your business is insane, who does that?

I remember working in corporate. We would look at our campus or our, whatever, our individual performance and we would go, “How do we increase the conversions?” If we could increase a conversion by 2%, 3%, 4%, that was a huge win. That was major success if we could increase something by 2-5%. Now, granted we’re talking about big companies and small hinges move big doors. So if we increase by 2-5% with a big company that has lots of revenue and lots of moving parts that does result in a big growth and that is a win. So I’m not saying in every situation that that’s bad.

I’m just saying, when we take that same mindset into our businesses as entrepreneurs who have a little bit smaller businesses than a Fortune 100 company like I was working for. Then thinking that way is first of all not necessary and second of all making everything a lot harder for me. If I’m just trying to tweak metrics and improve metrics that might be harder actually than just totally changing the way I’m thinking about this, period.

If I’m going to not just 10x my actions, not just double down on my actions but I’m going to try to 10x the results in my business that can’t come from me working harder. That has to come from me thinking on a different level, on a different scale than I’m thinking right now. And I’m totally changing up a lot of what I’m doing, throwing some of it out the door and doing something entirely different within my business. And I’ll tell you what, that feels scary but that’s the way that you 10x. You don’t just tweak little metrics here and there.

You totally blow it up in certain ways and think bigger and think differently. Now, I love how my brain is starting to try to go to work on this idea of what if we instead of thinking how do I double my membership or how do I increase the number of people in my coaching membership for example by 20% this year? I think how do I 10x the number of people in my coaching program? Now, I don’t tell myself and not that you can’t, but for me, I don’t go, “How do I 10x it this year?” I just think how do I 10x it within the next four years or five years?

Now, some of you might go, “Well, that’s the same, why wouldn’t you just go, let’s increase it 20% per year over the next five years, that’s still going to”, whatever the math is on that. The reason why I don’t want to think about it that way is because I can’t. There’s only a certain amount of tweaking I can do to squeeze the juice out of just increasing the performance of the metrics, meaning lead generation, conversion, retention, things like that. We can do a little bit of that and we will work on that but that’s not going to get us to 10x.

We’re going to have to think bigger, think differently. Do you see what I’m saying? Even though we’re going to give ourselves longer to accomplish it. Now, the discomfort of this for me comes in not knowing the answer to the question. Are you like me? You ask a question like that and your brain just wants to go, “I don’t know”, and shut it down. So one of the things that serves me really well as an entrepreneur, that I’m not always good at doing but when I am it really is magical. What happens is I learn to live with the question, with an unanswered question.

I let unanswered questions guide me as I’m having meetings with my team, as I’m talking to certain individuals on my team, as we’re making decisions about certain programs or certain marketing strategies or certain whatever. If my brain is thinking more long term, more 10x then I’m already making decisions that are going to set us up for that down the road. And I’m already seeing areas where we are thinking small and playing small and being small.

And again, not that we throw them out right away. This isn’t something there that for me anyway that I can be in a rush to try to do because then I do turn into somebody who’s working too much and burning out and doesn’t have balance in my life. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about expanding your mind, expanding your ideas, opening yourself up to possibilities in terms of the how would and in terms of what you do and in terms of what it might look like in the world, that 10x your business.

You’re going to have to 10x your mindset to make that happen. Do you see what I’m saying? I see this happen when I go to other businesses that maybe are newer or smaller or maybe just a little bit less business savvy than myself. Sometimes it’s just a local business here in Spokane, maybe a service that I’m taking advantage of or a product I’m purchasing or a little small local business.

And I don’t know about you but sometimes I notice gosh, there’s such an opportunity right there where they could utilize a strategy that I’m aware of that I realize they’re not even aware of. That would help increase their customers or their sales in the end.

So what I notice is I’m able to think a little bit bigger in terms of client acquisition, customer conversion, things like that because I have some experience in that area and I’ve done that in certain ways. So now I’m seeing an opportunity. They don’t even realize the opportunity is there. They just aren’t at that point yet and so they’re not even thinking. They don’t think it’s possible first of all. They’re not aware even of what they don’t know, what they’re not trying.

So when I see that with somebody who is a step behind me then it makes me realize I’m that person to people who are ahead of me. They look at me and the way I’m running my business and probably could see a lot of opportunities, of things I could be trying, things I could be doing, things I could be thinking about, ways I could be better utilizing my team, maybe new team members I should be bringing on strategies that I don’t even know I don’t know about yet.

And so then the question becomes, well, how do I learn about it? How am I ever going to know that? Well, this is one reason I find that in something like building a business, a community is so important. And you’ve got to have people around you who are ahead of you. You’ve got to be in communities with people that are further along than you because sometimes the questions they ask, you’re going to realize I didn’t even know to ask that question but now it’s opening up my mind in a whole new way.

And you surround yourself in whatever way you want to do that. That’s what we try to do in Business Minded but whatever community or surrounding yourself with people who are ahead of you that you want to tap into that is the only way that I have found to open up my mind. I shouldn’t say that’s the only way. That’s my favorite way. It seems to be the fastest and most effective way. You can read books. You can listen to podcasts. You can study people who are ahead of you. You can watch masterclass videos and things like that. All of that will help.

But community I like the dynamic nature of it. I like that it’s not stagnant. I like that I can participate in it. And usually in a community there are people who are behind me that I can help and learn from and then there are definitely, I’d like there to be people ahead of me that are, even if they’re not giving me ideas or directly helping me in some obvious way. They’re opening up my mind to help me 10x the way I’m thinking. 10x your thinking, 10x your ideas. Picture whatever it is you want to do in your business, whatever your goals are.

Go further out, go five years out and ask yourself if in the next five years we were to 10x our business then what would we want to do right now? What would best set us up to achieve that milestone? What would help us pivot towards that? And the answer might be, I don’t know but instead of I don’t know let it be I don’t know yet but let’s keep it in mind. Let’s look at everything through that lens. If you’re on my team listening to this podcast, get ready because we’re going to 10x everything. I’m so excited.

Alright, if you want more help getting your business off the ground, especially if you’re a coach or maybe you have a therapy practice or some kind of service based business as a teacher, coach. I put together a training just for you and you can go to jodysfreetraining.com and check it out and it’s free. So thanks for joining me today for Entre-Talk. I will be back on Friday with our regular life coaching episode and next Monday with another Entre-Talk episode. See you then.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: 10X Ideas appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Who out there is a talker? If you hadn’t guessed, I personally love to talk, and I think I’m pretty good at it. But some people might say I talk too much. “Too much” is obviously very subjective, but if you’ve ever been told that you talk too much, or you just sometimes think to yourself that you talk too much, this episode is for you.

If you’re like me and talking just lights you up, there will always be a chance that you’re talking too much. But you’d be amazed at what you can learn when you sit back and listen instead.

Tune in this week to discover how to intentionally decide for yourself what talking too much means, and why silence is sometimes an amazing thing that others appreciate. I’m showing you how, when you’re talking, you aren’t listening, and I’m giving you some strategies that I utilize in managing that part of myself that wants to talk but isn’t always aware of how much talking is an appropriate amount.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why some of us are more internally processive, others are just externally communicative, and one isn’t better than the other. * How any strength can become a weakness when it is overused. * Why you need to decide intentionally what an appropriate amount to talk is, and why this is different for everyone. * The way talking too much manifests and plays out in group settings. * How I manage my thoughts when I’m in a situation where I might be talking too much. * What we can learn when we stop talking, or thinking about talking, and just listen instead. * Some strategies for you to utilize in monitoring yourself when you think you’re talking too much.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 397, When You Talk Too Much.

Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. Who’s a talker out there besides me? I love to talk. So first of all thank you for listening to the podcast because it gives me an opportunity to talk which I am very good at doing. Before we dive into this topic I want to make sure that you’re signed up for Wellness Week. It’s $19 and we’re going to spend time together really diving into all the pillars of wellness, physical, emotional, spiritual and all the other things.

And the best part about Wellness Week is that it gives you a feel for what coaching is like. And so if you’ve ever wondered if coaching could benefit you in your life, if it’s really what you need maybe – I know I get a lot of people that are like, “My stuff is too heavy, coaching won’t work.” And they’re surprised most of the time to discover that coaching is the perfect solution.

And then I get the opposite too like, “I don’t have any real problems or real struggles. I just listen to this podcast because it’s fun. I don’t need coaching.” And those people have their minds blown too about how coaching takes everything beyond what they even knew was possible. So please come to Wellness Week and check out coaching if you haven’t before. It’s 19 bucks and you can register at jodymoore.com/intensive. Just be prepared because your life won’t be the same after.

Okay, so again, I want to talk today about being a talker. So like I said, I would classify myself as someone who easily can talk too much. If I am not self-aware and I don’t manage myself I have a tendency to talk too much. Now, what is too much? That is subjective. It’s totally up to you. There is no right amount to talk or wrong amount. So I’m not telling you this because I want you to feel bad or feel ashamed. That is not my intention here at all. Please don’t go to that place.

I’m going to help you determine for yourself what is talking too much. And then I’m going to give you some strategies that I utilize to try to manage, again, that I part of myself that wants to talk a lot. So first of all a lot of people like to dive into diagnosing why do we talk too much. Or maybe you have a friend or someone who talks a lot and it’s easy to move into judgment if you find that to be annoying. That’s not what I want to do today.

I don’t know. I’m not a therapist. I do know that there are a lot of the most well-known and well vetted personality assessments out there and there are many but most of them have some kind of component around verbal communication. And most of them identify that there are people who tend to be more verbally communicative and others who are more internally processing if you will. And so it doesn’t mean anything. Sometimes the talkers actually appear to be more confident. That may or may not be the case.

Sometimes we talk out of insecurity. Sometimes we’re speaking out of confidence. It’s just simply a different way of being in the world and it has to do partly with how your nervous system is wired and your DNA and then your life experience and a bunch of other things like I said that I won’t go into. I just want to be clear that I’m not saying it’s better or worse to be more verbal, more communicative. It’s just different. And at the same time I am a believer that any one of our strengths overused can become a weakness.

There are many people who teach this in different forms. I didn’t invent that idea. I was taught it when I was a corporate trainer in a leadership training. But I love that idea that any one of our strengths becomes a weakness over years because it means any one of my weaknesses are just one of my strengths overused. So I do believe that our ability to talk and connect and express verbally and connect with others through language is a huge strength that can become a weakness when overused.

So I want to talk about it in different settings. I want to talk about it first of all in a group setting. So if you are in a class or in a room, in a workshop with a bunch of other people or maybe you’re on a Zoom call with a bunch of other people, when you’re with a group of people, think 15 people or more at least. What is happening in your mind if you’re the person talking and what is an appropriate amount? I don’t know the answer to what’s an appropriate amount. I just want you to decide it intentionally.

So I was talking to a friend of mine, Melissa, hi, Melissa, I’ll just say it, it’s Melissa. I love Melissa so much, Melissa Spencer. She’s my good friend and we work together in the business. And she was saying how her stake president, which is just a leader in our church, will pass out tokens. I think she said he literally, did you say, literally brings tokens, Melissa? I think she said that. Or at the very least he reminds everyone, “You have two tokens, every time you make a comment you give me one of your tokens and when your two tokens are gone you’re done.”

I don’t know if he literally brings tokens or he just reminds everyone, “You get to make two comments.” But this is his way of trying to manage the room because what’s difficult is when you’re the leader of the room. And I am often the leader and I’m also often a student. The leader has to try to manage the dynamics for the whole room to try to help everybody get what they need out of it. And when you have a dominant talker it’s challenging because on the one hand some people don’t want to speak up.

There are some people who are like, “Oh, good. I don’t want to speak up so I’m glad that other person is filling the airtime or answering the questions so that I don’t have to.” But at a certain point there becomes a tipping point at which it’s like, “Oh, that person again. We know what that person has to say.” Or there are some people who are less quick to raise their hands and speak up but when they do it really benefits them and sometimes an uncomfortable awkward silence is what they need to get up the courage to raise their hand and speak up,

So as the leader of the room, if you’ve never been a teacher or led a room which I’m sure we all have done that at times. But it’s a challenge because we don’t want to ignore the person raising their hand or make them feel left out or feel bad. But we do want to make sure we’re considering everybody in the room.

So that brings me to being a participant in the room. As a participant in the room I try to keep that in mind. I try to keep in mind that even though I always have a thought and I always want to raise my hand and I think that what I have to say is really valuable and useful, it will help everybody if you’ll just let me share it. I know that that is not always true. I’m not as brilliant and wise as I think I am all the time.

But even if I do have a lot of good ideas I may be taking away from somebody else that either wants to speak up or could really benefit from being given the opportunity to speak up and needs some uncomfortable silence and pause to build up the courage to speak up. I think for me anyway it’s selfish of me to not consider everybody in the room like that and not manage myself. So I give myself a couple tokens. Now, again, it depends. If I’m in a meeting with five other people I think I get maybe two or three tokens if there’s a lot of dialogue, if there’s a lot of opportunity to speak up.

I’m trying to take a reasonable assessment of what percentage of answering questions or making comments would make the most sense given the number of people and the number of opportunities to speak up in this environment. And I’m trying to give myself a tiny percentage. And when I’m tempted to speak out more like Melissa would say, “I’ve already used my two tokens, I’m done.” That’s her and I’s way of managing ourselves and telling ourselves, “No, Jody, you don’t need to speak up again even though you think you do.”

If I have used my ‘two tokens’ and my brain’s like, “But I have this thing I need to say. I have this really good idea, people are going to love this.” Then I tell myself, “It’s okay, you can just enjoy your idea.” It’s perfect for you to keep for yourself. Maybe the reason that idea came to your mind or that you recalled it or that you read it at some point or wherever it came from was just for you. Let’s be quiet now and let other people have a chance to speak even if it’s silent and no one else is speaking up.

Did you know silence is not a bad thing? So it’s again hard for my brain. In the LDS church once a month we have testimony meeting which means that there aren’t assigned speakers or an assigned agenda for the main portion of our church service. There is just an opportunity for anyone who feels prompted to come up and share their thoughts and testify of Jesus Christ. And it’s not uncommon for no one to get up for a while, for there to just be a mic and everybody else sitting there waiting to see who’s going to get up.

It doesn’t usually last too long but for a good five minutes or so sometimes, which feels really long and everyone’s just sitting there. And every time that happens my brain’s like, “I should get up, I have something to say.” I always have something to say. I always have a story to tell or something on my mind and communicating verbally helps me process and I connect with the spirit and people like it. People tell me they like what I have to say. So my brain’s telling me to get up.

And what I tell myself is no, “Silence is good. Silence is sometimes what’s necessary for someone else who wants or needs to get up to build up the courage. So you keep your idea, Jody Moore, to yourself. It is for you internally. You process it, you appreciate it, you feel the benefit of it. That is enough.” And again I keep using two tokens. I don’t mean literally two. Maybe it’s not two, maybe it’s one sometimes. Maybe sometimes it’s more. I want you to decide what is two tokens for you. And when you feel you’ve used your two tokens you monitor yourself.

Now, the next situation I want to talk about is in a one-on-one conversation, same rules are going to apply, my friends. And again the way I manage myself in this situation is a little bit different. I don’t necessarily think about have I used my two tokens. Some of the people in my life are like, “You need to work on it more, Jody.” So let me just own that I know that’s true. It is challenging for me but what I try to do is be quiet and let other people talk because I have a tendency to run people over with what I want to say, to interrupt people, to cut people off.

And here’s what I try to keep in mind is I don’t ever want and I’m not saying this doesn’t happen sometimes but I feel heartbroken when I know or when I believe that somebody has left a conversation with me or an interaction with me feeling not heard and not seen. And for those of you that are talkers like myself I just want to remind you that when we talk too much we are not listening enough, period.

We cannot be talking as much as we want to and because not only are we talking but when they’re talking we’re thinking about what we’re going to say next. And we can’t do that to the extent that some of us try to do and hear and see other people. It’s just not something we’re capable of doing. The brain doesn’t operate that way. And people can feel the difference. You’ve been at the receiving end of this.

We’ve been in a conversation with someone and you realize they didn’t really hear anything I said. They heard me kind of. They even replied sometimes as though they heard me. They didn’t really hear me. They didn’t really see me because they were busy thinking of what they were going to say next. Now, that’s a common thing I’m sure you’ve heard before, “People don’t listen. They’re just thinking of what they’re going to say next.” And I do think that we all do that to a certain extent, even when we’re managing ourselves very well or even for people who aren’t talkers.

It is human nature to be as you’re listening, sort of thinking about how you’re going to reply. So I don’t want you to feel bad when that part of you doesn’t totally go away. I don’t think it ever totally goes away. I don’t know, maybe some people would say otherwise but for me it never completely goes away. But what I can do is manage it a lot by rather than thinking about what I want to say next, what’s a story I can tell that sort of relates to this or that would be funny or that would add to this.

I am thinking, what else do I want to know? What are they really trying to tell me, or what’s underneath this that’s true for this person? So rather than thinking of what I want to say, I’m trying to shift my focus to thinking about them and being curious about them, which causes me to think about what do I want to ask. What do I want to ask? And again being a talker, it’s tempting for me to want to ask three questions at once. This is something I try to practice in my coaching.

Somebody tells me a situation and I want to go, “So what did you mean by that? Do you think you meant this or do you think you meant that, or did you feel this way or what was going on?” See how I just asked four, five questions at once? So I really work on making my questions more succinct when I’m working on this talking less thing. So I’ll say things like, “Interesting. What was that like? Say more about that. How did that feel? Oh, fascinating. Why?” See, all of these and I don’t ask all those at once by the way.

Those are just examples of a question that I ask when I’m really being there trying to allow someone to feel seen and heard and we all want that. We all want to feel seen and heard, you guys, even the people that are really quiet, that don’t ever speak up. If you’re a talker like me you’re like, “Why don’t they speak up if they want to feel seen and heard?” Well, because they’re not wired the way you are. They’re not wired the way I am. They’re wired a little differently. Maybe it feels dangerous etc., who knows the reason why? I don’t really care the reason why.

All I know is I want people to know that they’re valuable and I want them to feel seen and heard after they leave a conversation with me. I don’t just want them to walk away feeling enlightened by what they learned from me. That’s ridiculous. I want them to feel seen and heard and validated after they spend a few minutes talking with me. And that doesn’t happen by me talking. That happens by me listening. This is not easy to do, my friends.

Here’s the last thing I want to tell you. All of this really shifted for me about 10 years ago because I took some kind of online personality assessment. I’m so sorry I wish I could give the credit to wherever it came from but I don’t remember. I just remember everything was put on to these continuums of like from one extreme to the other. And there were all these different questions that you answered about yourself. And so one of the questions had to do with this.

It said, “When you’re in a class situation, how likely are you to speak up and answer a question?” And it started from not likely at all, all the way over to very likely, I do it all the time. So I answer on that side very likely, I do it all the time thinking look at me, I’m so confident. I’m going to get a good score for that. And as I got the results of this assessment what I discovered is that a lot of my answers fell on that side.

And that what the test told me was that that isn’t useful either, that what is the most healthy, the most confident is falling in the middle. So falling on one extreme of I never speak up, I never raise my hand because I’m too nervous, I’m afraid people will judge me. I don’t think I have anything useful to say. That’s fear based but the opposite end of I’ll raise my hand, I have something to say, everyone listen to me, is also fear based they said. And my mind was exploding a little as they said this. I’m like, “What are you talking about? I’m not afraid.”

And they said, “No, it’s coming from an insecurity of needing to feel heard or seen or validated. And the way you’re trying to feel that is by having to talk all the time, needing someone to listen or to believe that people are listening by speaking out loud.” People who are truly confident fall in the middle. They can speak up and they can also be quiet and they can feel important and validated and trust they have good ideas and not good ideas and it’s all okay. That’s what I like to teach about confidence.

And you don’t have to speak up all the time and share what you’re thinking in order to validate yourself in that way.” And my head just exploded a little bit. I was like, “Oh, I think that’s true.” I think that’s true. I think when I talk too much it’s coming from insecurity just like I like to look at people that never speak up and go, “It’s too bad, they’re so insecure.” But guess what, so am I. It just shows up differently. When I’m in true confidence I can just listen and love people and soak it in and I don’t have to say everything that comes to my mind and I can manage myself.

Now, again, I have coached some of you on this before and I am not telling you to beat yourself up over it. I am simply trying to give you some awareness and some tools that you can implement. You’re not always going to do it right. I don’t always do it right. I still talk too much but I know what to do when I want to work on it. I know how to manage myself. And I will continue doing that. I’ll probably have to continue doing it the rest of my life but I’m in. Who’s with me?

Alright, thanks for joining me today for another episode of Better Than Happy. I’ll see you next week. Take care everybody, bye bye.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post 397. When You Talk Too Much appeared first on Jody Moore.

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In talking all things business here on Entre-Talk, something we have to address is social media. Over and over again, I hear business owners, especially those new to entrepreneurship, say, “I don’t want to be on social media.”

There are endless ways you can grow your business. You don’t have to follow anyone else’s footsteps, and there’s nothing you “should” do, other than what you truly want. However, if you’re currently in the camp of not wanting to post or share on social media, I invite you to ask yourself why.

Join me this week to hear the most common reasons I’ve heard for not wanting to have a presence on social media, and the importance of understanding your reasons if you resonate with this. I’m also sharing my thoughts on social media, and why I feel great about it.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Some common reasons business owners don’t want to be on social media. * My thoughts on social media. * Why I don’t feel bad or worried about social media at all.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Thoughts on Social Media.

Alright, friends as you know on Monday we talk business. I talk to entrepreneurs who want to learn about all the things I’m still trying to learn about. And today I want to talk about social media because this is so common. Over and over again I hear business owners, especially new business owners say, “I don’t want to have to be on social media. I don’t want to have to post on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook”, or whatever social media you think need to be on. And I’ll say, “Okay, why?”

And I want to be clear, the reason I ask why not or why isn’t because I think that you have to be or even that you should be. I think you should do whatever you want in your business. And I think there are many, many ways to grow a business. I don’t think that you have to be because everybody else is. I don’t think that you ever ‘should’ do anything. I think if you want to I can help you get your head around it. But a reason I ask why not is because I genuinely want to know what is your reason why you don’t want to be on social media. We want to understand your reason.

And it is very common for people to say things like, “Well, it seems fake to me. I just don’t agree with overall what it’s doing. I think it’s harmful for kids. I think it’s people just putting their best face forward or it’s intimidating. I don’t understand it. I don’t want to figure out how to use it. It’s bad. It’s evil. It’s hurting people. All kinds of things like that I hear. So I just want to share with you my thoughts about social media and you can take them or leave them. But I like to view social media as the town square.

And actually, I should tell you where I got this thought from. I got this thought from a missionary, a young elder, 19/20-year-old kid out serving a mission for our church and this was years ago. I think I was living in California at the time. But the church was encouraging us to share our testimonies online. So that’s where this thought comes from. This young elder said to me, well, he said to all of us I should say in a class. He said, “Social media is the town square.” It’s the new town square.

If you think about back in the olden days the town square is where people would go if they wanted to see what was going on and they wanted to connect with one another. And everyone built their businesses around the town square because that’s where you would go to buy supplies and things. That’s where you might put up flyers advertising your business. That’s where people would literally stand on a soapbox and share a message that they wanted to spread or fight for a cause etc. It was the town square.

So did you have to go to the town square? No, not necessarily but you might want to at times especially if you were somebody who had a message or a product or an offer you wanted to get out into the world you would probably go to the town square to try to get the word out because that’s where all the people are.

And the town square now is the internet but especially social media. That’s where the people are. That’s where people go to see what’s going on. That’s where people go to buy things a lot of times and that’s where people go to spread their messages. And that’s where people go to hear what other people are thinking. And so do you have to use it? No, you don’t, you really genuinely don’t. I’m not just saying that, you really don’t.

But the town square people can stand up in the town square and say really hateful terrible things or can stand up and really inspire and spread a lot of love and goodwill in the town square. It’s just the town square. Yeah, you can use it to do a lot of harm. And I look at my business account, even my personal account, is it fake? Yeah, probably, I mean I’m not trying to trick anyone but I’m publishing mostly my professional photos and things.

But here’s why I feel okay about that, here’s why I don’t feel bad about that at all. This is the second thing I want to say. Number one, social media is the town square. It’s where everyone is so go there or not up to you.

But number two, if you’re feeling worried about coming across fake or accidentally offending someone or looking dumb, looking like you don’t know what you’re talking about, being compared as not being as qualified as someone else etc. Notice that your brain is making it about you. It will always feel scary when you make it about you. It feels scary for me when I make it about me but here’s the thing. I’m not publishing professional photos of me and messages on Instagram in order to try to impress people and win friends.

I’m doing it to try to help people with their mental and emotional health. And if a picture of me gets their attention and having a face and a voice and a name to associate with the tools helps them feel guided then I’m in. I’ll be that person for whoever wants me to be. So don’t be hating on social media or the internet. It’s neutral. You don’t have to use it. You don’t have to like it but notice that the story you’re telling is either a story you want to keep or not. It’s just a story in the end. What do you want to believe? Those are my thoughts about social media.

Now, I want to give you some more help, entrepreneurs, especially coaches. I created a free training where I walk you through exactly how I started from zero, nothing, literally did not know what I was doing at all to a thriving multiple seven-figure coaching practice. And I show you exactly how to do it and it’s totally free. Head to jodysfreetraining.com and check it out. Alright, I’ll see you next time. Take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: Thoughts on Social Media appeared first on Jody Moore.

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How do you support your LGBTQ+ friends and family members while keeping your faith? This is an important question, whether you’re LDS like me, or you subscribe to any other conservative faith or value system. We had the pleasure of welcoming TJ Thomas to do a workshop on exactly this topic in Be Bold, and the members in there wanted to share it with as many people as possible, so I’m putting it out here on the podcast today.

TJ Thomas is a licensed therapist who specializes in sexuality and spirituality. He identifies as a member of the LDS Church and an LGBTQ+ individual and he has a wealth of professional and personal experience to share on how to navigate what seems like conflicting dynamics.

Tune in this week for a discussion about how to support your LGBTQ+ friends and family members while keeping your faith. TJ is coming at this conversation from a place of compassion for both sides, answering questions directly from people just like you, and sharing his valuable insights from his research and personal lived experience.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The split TJ sees between standing up for the gospel versus standing up for your LGBTQ+ loved ones. * Why there is such a wide range of experiences around LGBTQ+ topics in the church. * Some general education around the basics of the LGBTQ+ reality and the language around it. * Where science and the Church agree and where they disagree. * How someone in your life coming out as LGBTQ+ fits into your Self-Coaching Model. * What you need to know about gender from a scientific perspective and some common myths that need debunking. * Some of the least helpful and even hurtful things you can say to your LGBTQ+ loved ones, even if you think it’s coming from a loving place. * How to support your LGBTQ+ loved ones and reconcile that with your faith.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
TJ Thomas: Website | Twitter | Instagram
Get my free Relief Society Activity: How to Feel Better

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 396, Supporting your LGBTQ+ Friends While Keeping Your Faith.

Hey everybody, in Be Bold occasionally I bring in a guest who is an expert in a particular area or topic and I co-teach a workshop with that guest. And recently we had the privilege of having TJ Thomas come and teach a workshop on this topic of being a member of a conservative Christian faith. TJ happens to be LDS like myself but this will be really relevant to any Christian religion I would say or just conservative value system in general.

And he did such an amazing job, the members loved it so much they kept writing in to my team and I saying, “I really want to share that workshop with my friends and family.” And normally we don’t release member protected content outside the membership but the demand was so high, the content was so powerful. I know there’s such a huge need for it that we decided, let’s put it on the podcast, let’s let anyone who wants to hear this information have it because TJ did such an amazing job.

TJ is a licensed therapist who specializes in sexuality and spirituality. He’s also a speaker and he identifies as a member of the LDS church and as an LGBTQ+ individual. So he has not only the professional experience but the personal experience as well. And I can’t wait for you to hear this powerful workshop. Now, before we dive into it there’s so many things coming up that I want to tell you about because I know there are things that are going to be relevant to different populations of you all that listen to this podcast.

So I’ll just say this is not good marketing. You’re not supposed to give lots of options. You’re just supposed to give one call to action but I’m just ignoring all that because I know that again there are a lot of different groups that listen to this podcast and you’re not going to want to miss out on these things. So let me begin by talking to my fellow Life Coach School coaches. If you are a certified coach I have an advanced certification program that is designed to give you additional tools and feedback on your coaching and also to give you experience coaching.

I give you 10 clients to coach every week for four months because in order to get better coaching, in order to build your confidence and your competency as a coach you need to coach more. So there’s a lot more details to that program that I’ll just let you go and check out yourself at jodymoore.com/coach. But we will be opening the doors to this program the first week of March and it sells out in minutes. So you’re going to want to head over to that web page right now and check it out and decide if it’s going to be for you and grab a seat because it’s coming right up and that is a lot of fun.

The second thing I’m really excited to tell everyone about is a Relief Society activity that we created that is really good if I do say so myself. The Relief Society activity is everything that you need to gather the sisters in your ward or whatever group of people you want to do this activity with and it’s called How to Feel Better. So it gives the guidance and tools and practical application to help people understand how to feel better. And I’ll just say that I created this because I get asked to speak to different populations within the church, especially Relief Societies all the time.

And I try to say yes as much as I can, if it’s close to my home and it fits in my schedule. But the truth is a lot of you live really far from me and my schedule doesn’t always allow for it. So we created this activity to really get the word out to everyone. It’s got really detailed facilitator notes. So a facilitator can just follow along step-by-step. It doesn’t matter if you don’t know the content or the model or you don’t have to be a coach or anything like that. I walk you through exactly what to do and there are videos that go with it.

So all you have to do is press play and I’m going to teach and then you’re going to stop it and you and the sisters in your ward are going to do a little activity on the worksheets that we give you. And then you’ll press play again and it will just walk you through it step by step. And the price for this Relief Society activity is free. So all you have to do to get it is go to jodymoore.com/activity. And I hope that you will take advantage of this. I hope you will help me spread the word about how to help everyone feel better.

And the final thing I want to tell you about is Wellness Week. Wellness Week is a five day coaching intensive where you’ll spend 90 minutes a day with me on Zoom. You can come live or we’ll send you the replays each day as well but it’s an opportunity for you to really experience coaching. You can get coached yourself or you can listen to coaching. And if you’re thinking, I don’t know if coaching’s really for me, I don’t know if it would help me or I think that it would but I am too shy to be coached in a group. It will help you see the power of just listening to coaching even.

And it’s pretty life changing, I’ve got to say. I know this because people who come to these five day coaching intensives tell me how it changes the entire trajectory of their lives. And it’s only $19. And I’m also going to be opening the doors to Be Bold during that workshop. So you will learn all about Be Bold. If you want to come and work with me we’ll have some special opportunities for you. If you don’t, that’s fine. Come to Wellness Week because this may be the last time we teach it in this way. Head to jodymoore.com/intensive.

That was a lot. Let’s take it away. This is again, a replay of the workshop. Special thanks to TJ Thomas for allowing us to put this on the podcast. I hope that it’s helpful, please share it with your friends if so, take care.

Jody: Hey there everybody, how are we doing today? This is a topic that I’m very excited to be able to dive into today because it’s such a prevalent challenge, hi, TJ, for so many people. So today we’re going to be talking about how to support your LGBTQ+ family member and keep your faith. And I’ll just say, TJ, I’ll introduce you briefly but then you say whatever I get wrong. You just correct me or fill in the gaps. TJ is a therapist who specializes in sexuality and spirituality, also a speaker.

And he also identifies as LDS and LGBTQ+. So I love that TJ, you bring both the professional perspective and personal experience. So I’m going to let you go ahead and lead. I don’t want to take up your time talking. And I’m just going to be here and ask all the tough questions and try not to talk too much but I’ll have thoughts I’m sure.

TJ: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I am super happy to be here with everyone today. So as Jody said, I’m a therapist. That’s what I do for my work. And I do primarily work with the LGBTQ and LDS cross space. Not only because that’s my personal experience but also as I was looking for my own therapist for this I was realizing that I couldn’t really find what I was looking for. I could find a lot of people who were kind of on one side or the other. A lot of people who would want to really encourage me to stay in the church at all costs and a lot of people would encourage me to abandon the church.

And so what I try to do with my clients and what I try to find with myself is that there’s no one size fits all answer for everyone. And so there’s a lot of nuance in these areas. But I realized that there is a lot that we can do to better love and support LGBTQ+ people in general in the world but especially as members of any conservative religious community including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So that’s kind of what I want to talk about today is what we can do to kind of find the balance with these two things that I know can be tricky for a lot of people.

First of all I just want to thank everyone who submitted their responses to the questionnaire that we sent out. It helped me figure out where we could focus and what you guys really wanted to hear about today. Of course I won’t be able to address all of it, that’s not going to be possible. But I have a lot of resources that are outside of this little webinar today that if you’re interested in more my business website is tjcounseling.com. Instagram is @tjcounseling. I have a lot of resource lists and free videos and podcasts and book recommendations and a lot of stuff if you’re looking to dive in more of that kind of thing.

Jody: Yeah, I want to second what you said about thanking everyone for sending in their responses. We got a lot of responses and it’s really helpful.

TJ: Yeah. It really made a big difference because I speak on this a lot. I’ve done a lot of firesides and podcasts and different settings. So it was really great to hear what you guys want from me today. I’m going to try to answer as much of it as I can. One of the things I found to be very interesting was that there seems to be a pretty big split which I just want to highlight really quickly that there were a lot of people that were in the camp feeling, well, I feel like I can’t stand up for the Gospel or I want to protect my kids.

And there were a lot of people in the camp on the other side, which was I feel like I can’t stand up for my LGBTQ loved ones while I’m at church and I want to protect my LGBTQ kids. So I just want to point that out because I’m sure you guys being in this program with each other, there’s a lot that you have in common but this is one area where there’s a pretty big range of experiences. And I think just highlighting that to remember that while we all have questions and concerns there’s people on both sides of this issue that are struggling in both directions.

I think it’s helpful for us to kind of come to this middle center place, be able to find more compassion and understanding for both sides’ experiences.

Jody: And so you’re not alone wherever you fall on that continuum, right?

TJ: Yes, absolutely fair concerns on both sides. So we’re going to try to address both today. So a few disclaimers before I really dive in. Obviously I can’t answer all the questions. That’s a big one. Another one is that we can’t change other people’s models as we all know very well. We can only change our own model. And there were a lot of questions about so and so in my life thinks this or how do I change this viewpoint of someone else? We know we can’t do that. My hope today is that I can just share as much information as possible because when we know better we do better.

So that we can work on our own models and how we see all of this affecting our own lives, our own families, our own circles. So I have three basic sections today before we get into – at the end we’ll do a question and answer but I’m going to present to you guys three basic sections. The first one is general education about the basics of the LGTBQ+ reality. Some of the science stuff, some of the real life things that are just important to know as a foundation.

Then we’ll move on to education and sharing some experiences of what it’s like to be an LGBTQ+ person especially in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or really in a lot of the world in general. There’s a lot of crossover obviously. And the third area that we’ll talk about is providing you guys with real concrete ideas of how you can show more love and support because I genuinely feel like everyone wants to do that but people just don’t really know how. So I’m not going to just say, “Just love everyone.” Because I think we all know that.

So I’m going to try to give you guys real specific steps and actions that you can take at the end.

Jody: I love it. And I’ll keep an eye on the Q&A box. So if you have questions while TJ is speaking, he’ll take some at the end. But if there’s one that’s really relevant to what you’re talking about I’ll share it.

TJ: Yes. And please send in your Q&As. I try to set aside as much time as I could at the end so we’ll be able to dive into a lot of those hopefully. So one of the first things I would like to do is just dispel some of the myths about LGBTQ+ people or reality. So there are a few of these that we’re going to just debunk some of these myths. The first one that I think is the most important is that it’s a choice. It’s not, never has been and that’s something that both science and the church agrees on, that the church’s official position is that it is not a choice and that they do recognize that.

That’s a good place to start because it helps remove some of the justification that we can sometimes feel but it’s different than when you disagree with someone else is just who they are. First is that it’s not a choice.

The second one that was in a lot of the questionnaire responses was concerns about it being popular. I won’t speak in absolutes. I will say the vast, vast, vast majority of the time in both my personal and professional experience, this is not the case. In fact, far more often than not someone coming out as LGBTQ+ leads to more ostracization and more exclusion, not more popularity.

I have seen in a very few instances where someone has wondered if they might be LGBTQ+ and maybe they’ve got friends who are in the queer community at their school. So they try that hat on so to speak. But in the very few instances where I’ve seen that’s the case they very quickly realize that that’s not their real identity and they move past it very quickly. But it happens such a small percentage of the time that I don’t even like to have that on my radar when someone is coming out or when someone’s sharing their experience because it’s almost never the case.

Jody: And I’ll just interject that for me I put it in the C line, in the model that we use here. And just like anything else, let’s say my daughter tells me that she’s anxious. In my C line I put my daughter says she’s anxious. So it doesn’t really matter if she really is anxious or she’s just saying it to get attention. None of that matters in the end. Just like if my child says, “I’m gay, I’m queer, I’m whatever”, that goes in the C line. And I treat it as though it’s true. It is true for them. And so I know that question came up, is it a C or a T? I don’t know how you would answer it but I always just make it a C.

TJ: Yeah. That was one of the questions that is in this myth section, so thank you.

Jody: Okay, sorry.

TJ: No, that was perfect. You’re the expert on the model far more than I am so I love that answer. Yeah, there was a question of whether I’m LGBTQ is a thought or a circumstance. We have thoughts obviously surrounding what any identity means to us, how we express it in the world, all those things. But yes, being LGBTQ+ is a circumstance. Thinking that you’re not or trying to change your thought work around being LGBTQ+ will not change that you are.

And I can promise you almost every LGBTQ+ person especially in the church has tried for years to change it and to think differently and to do whatever they could because it’s a really hard thing. And a lot of us have tried to change it for a very long time unsuccessfully.

Jody: If I’m going to put homosexual in the T line then I also need to put heterosexual is also just a thought. So anyway, we could spend all day on that but we’ll move on.

TJ: That’s a really good analogy. And I do say that pretty often is that if you’re trying to understand a queer experience the only way to understand it is through a straight experience is by trying to apply how it feels to be straight to how it would feel to be gay. Or how it feels to be cisgendered to how it would feel to be transgender.

Jody: Somebody’s asking, does it say on the church website that it’s not a choice?

TJ: So yes, if you go to the church’s website under the individuals section, this isn’t quite word for word but close. It says something along the lines of, although it is not a choice it is a complex reality for many people, something along those lines. So yeah, on the official website it states that. There are a lot of old explanations from either religious people or old psychology that is no longer accurate, no longer taught that I’ll just list off a lot of them and just know that none of these things are true.

Being LGBTQ+ is not contagious. You can’t be turned gay or transgender. It’s not because Satan is tempting someone to be that. It’s not an addiction. It’s not because they were abused or because they had some trauma. It’s not because of any particular parenting style and it’s not a mental disorder. So just kind of clean sweep all of those are myths and they’re not true and not dive into each one too far.

The next one that came up quite a bit in the questionnaire that I want to talk about is the transgender experience. There were a lot of responses that said something along the lines of, I understand the gay experience a little bit and I’m trying to be more open minded to that but I just don’t get the transgender thing. And I don’t know how I can understand that better. It doesn’t line up with science or my beliefs so what do I do? So a very quick brief on the transgender experience.

It actually is really backed up by science. It’s easy because of this oversimplification in biology class when we were in school to say male and female is it. But if you ask endocrinologists, if you ask almost any physician who’s in this field the markers that determine sex are far more complex than a simple binary. Typically when someone is born you look at the genitals of the baby, you assign sex at birth and you say male or female. But we know that there are external genitals and internal genitals. There are hormones. There are chromosomes.

And every single one of those things has multiple ways in which it can express in a more complicated way than a simple male, female binary. The way that I like to use an analogy for this is that 98% of the atoms in our universe are hydrogen and helium, 98%. But we would never say that matter is binary even though the vast, vast, vast, vast majority are one of two. And it’s very similar with gender and sex that even in the scientific community they’re recognizing that even if the vast majority of people exhibit many gender markers on a binary it is not a simple binary.

There is diversity of experience in many different ways, that there are 12 chromosomes actually, not just x and y that play into gender and over 30 genes that govern sex. So it’s not quite as simple as we may have thought it was in biology classes.

Jody: That’s interesting, yeah.

TJ: The other myths that it’s not natural. This is also not true. Homosexual and transgender experiences have been observed in over 1,000 species of animals. So this is something that happens frequently in nature. It’s not some human invented thing. And another one is that it’s happening now more than ever before that this is a new thing, it’s because of whatever you want to blame it on in modern times. But this is actually also not true.

As far back as we have records in almost any major civilization in the world there are stories and histories of transgender or whatever their word for it was at that time and homosexual individuals. And this goes to ancient China, ancient Egypt, ancient Samaria, Polynesian cultures, native American cultures, it’s really it’s everywhere.

And it wasn’t until about the 12th or 13th century that westernized Christianity started suppressing a lot of these identities and made it seem up until we get to today that there were 700 years of suppression that these identities weren’t always there to begin with. So a very brief little history.

Jody: That’s right. But would you say that it feels more common to people because we’re doing a better job at embracing everybody?

TJ: Absolutely, yeah.

Jody: But that it’s always been there as commonly as ever?

TJ: We have a lot of records that prove that it’s always been there. And it’s always been there at fairly high percentages of the overall population. And so what we’re seeing now it seems to most historians to be a more balancing out of what’s always been there but just has been hidden for so long because people were so afraid to present as who they truly felt they were.

Jody: Yeah. Love it. Okay.

TJ: Very briefly there were some questions on language and terminology, what you should use. I can’t dive into all of it because I will admit the LGBTQIA+ acronym, it can be a lot and it can be a lot to learn. My recommendation would just be, mirror whatever language the person you’re speaking to is using. So if they are describing themselves as gay or transgender then feel free to use that same language for them.

I would recommend to avoid using the terms, struggle with same sex attraction or same sex attraction challenge or gender challenge or things like that because it diminishes what may be a very important part of themselves that they love and cherish. You, dismissing it as a struggle or a challenge can feel divisive. So I would avoid using that but other than that mirror the language that the person you’re speaking to is using.

Jody: And is it appropriate sometimes, I just ask, “How do you like to describe it?” And they’ll say, “I like the word ‘gay’.” I’m like, “Great.”

TJ: Yes, absolutely. Because, yeah, some people do use different words for this. Someone may use the phrase, “Struggle with same sex attraction.” Especially if they’re very early in discovering this about themselves. And they do feel very ashamed about it. I would still encourage you to not use that struggle because we don’t want to reinforce that idea for them. But someone may use the term, “I am same gender attracted.” And that may be what they feel is the best way to describe themselves.

And other people may decide that they use the word gay or queer, or whatever else. And you can ask or you can mirror the language.

Jody: Okay, perfect.

TJ: Yeah. So this is the basic section. There’s so much more to this that I wish that we could get into. But there’s a lot that we know and there’s a lot we don’t know. There’s a lot about the experience that we don’t know. We do know a few things though. We know for sure that it’s not a choice. We know for sure that it is a normal variation within the human expression. And we know for sure that it is not contagious. So if we can keep at least what those things we do know on that can eliminate a lot of the issues that we come up against.

The other thing that we do know unfortunately is that LGBTQ+ people are leaving all religion in record numbers and most of them explicitly state that they wish they didn’t have to or wished that they felt they could stay. Which leads me into the next section we’re going to talk about today which is the queer experience of someone in church or attending church.

I myself like I said, I’m in a place right now where I feel for the time being at least I can attend church and I can also be openly gay and I had a boyfriend and we would attend church together. And that was working for me. I don’t know where I’m going to be even a year from now, five, 10 years especially because it is hard. It’s hard to be a LGBTQ+ member of the church. So I’m just going to share with you guys some of the thoughts that I’ve had along this.

The first one being that there’s no real data on this because the church doesn’t share it. But the best data we can get to is that around 90-95% and that’s actually a pretty well estimate of LGBTQ+ individuals will leave the church in their adult life. Usually these are members who have been born into the church and they’re raised in the church but then as an adult once they’re not in their parents’ home anymore they feel they can’t stay anymore. And like I said, a lot of them wish they could.

But I just think sometimes what would we do if 90% of redheads were leaving the church? We would be freaking out. We would be having meeting after meeting of what are we saying, what are we doing, what is causing this to happen? Because those numbers is not, well this one person just couldn’t hack it or whatever else we might want to make ourselves feel better by writing it off as, but it’s huge, huge numbers. And I feel like Brené Brown has said, “It’s hard to hit up close moving.”

I feel if we learn more about people’s experiences then we can understand a little bit why this is happening. So I’m just going to share some experiences with you. And I’d like you to just try as best as you can to imagine going through these experiences yourself and see if you can understand why this would be such a hard thing for some of these individuals to go through.

So imagine being a 12 year old attending church already feeling confused about your gender identity and sexual attractions as you’re starting puberty. And hearing things that people like you are, Satan’s attack against the family or a sign of the last days or a danger to children. Imagine being 14 years old and having your friends at church and school stop talking to you because their parents were worried that you are at best a bad influence or at worst trying to confuse or corrupt their child.

Imagine being a 17 year old crying yourself to sleep at girls’ camp in a separate tent because the other girls and their parents were uncomfortable with someone like you sharing a tent with them. Imagine being 19 about to head out on your mission and in the interview your stake president asks you repeatedly, not if, but how often you engage in bestiality because he learned that same gender attraction is a slippery slope to that behavior. Imagine being a 21 year old at BYU and hearing other students caught on video proudly stating that faggots go to hell.

Imagine being 23 working as a youth summer camp counselor for two years only to get fired out of the blue because your bishop thinks that being gay is the same thing as being a pedophile. And he felt prompted that he needed to protect the teams at the camp from you. Imagine being 28 and coming out to your family only to have your parents and siblings tell you that you and the person you love aren’t allowed around the grandkids or the nieces and nephews because they don’t want to confuse them.

Imagine being in your 30s constantly dodging questions about why you aren’t married or dating because you don’t feel safe to come out yet. Then sitting in church for the primary program as they sing Families Can be Together Forever you leave the room in tears because you don’t know if you will ever be allowed to have that. Imagine being the son of an apostle out having a nice lunch with your parents and your same sex partner and taking a selfie just to mark the occasion. To have your dad say, “Please don’t post that anywhere. I don’t want people to get the wrong idea.”

Imagine being a 40 year old who got married and had kids despite his sexual attractions because that’s what you’re supposed to do. And later has to go through a painful divorce proceeding in which your ex-wife is encouraged to not let you be alone with the kids because it’s too dangerous for them to be alone with an LGBTQ person.

Imagine sitting at a funeral for someone who took their own life and hearing the speaker say that, “God knows their heart and will be merciful.” Then comparing it back to the negative messages you’ve heard about how God feels about queer people in relationships. And so deciding that apparently God is more okay with me killing myself than me being queer.

These stories are not exaggerated events or hypotheticals. Every single one of these were stories that I heard first hand from my clients or from my own life. This is the reality that LGBTQ+ people are facing in the church. And this is why I am so passionate about working and talking about this. I hear a lot of people ask me when I bring these things up, “Well, why do we have to talk about it all the time? What’s the big deal? We don’t talk about being straight and cisgendered at church all the time so why do we need to talk about LGBTQ+ people at church?”

We do talk about being straight and cisgendered at church all the time. If you’re a fish swimming in water and hasn’t recognized that it’s water you may not realize it but every time there is a talk where someone talks about how much temple marriage is the most beautiful thing in their life. And how their spouse is the greatest thing in their life, any time we hear lessons about the planet salvation in general, I’m in a singles ward right now.

Any time our elders quorum starts with an icebreaker about, “Hey, who’s been on a date this week?” It gets brought up constantly. Any Sunday where a transgender kid is forced to go to young men’s or young women’s and sit with their peers in which they feel they are not that gender and it causes them, a very brief aside.

If you don’t understand the transgender experience and I don’t fully because I’m not. The best way I’ve heard it described is to imagine that you’re car sick but your body is the car. And that every time you’re misgendered or wrong pronouns or things it feels like that nauseous car sick feeling and you can never escape from it. So it comes up a lot and this is the experience that is very hard to avoid when you’re in the church. And this is why it’s important to talk about.

Jody: Thank you for sharing that, yeah.

TJ: I want to read a little analogy that was shared on social media that I felt was really – I really identified with it and I feel it really encapsulates some of this feeling. I feel like both sides of my identity are tugging at me and I’m being torn down the middle. Every morning I wake up and sew myself back together. I know something needs to give eventually but my hands are starting to blister from holding both sides so tightly. I don’t want to let either of them go. I’m not sure if I can let go of either.

At this point for me, God’s plan of happiness almost feels like a house. I’m standing on the front porch but the door is locked. I’ve knocked and when I don’t get a response I start looking through the windows. Inside I see my parents, my younger brother who’s getting married in May, my sister with my nieces and nephews and most of my family and friends. My bishop is there too, so is my best friend, so are most of the positive examples in my life. Everyone is waiting for me to come inside, only the door is locked and I can’t find the key.

So I’m here standing outside in the rain wondering which aspect of my life I can sacrifice and what will ultimately be best for me. Meanwhile other friends and family pass by in the street and ask why I haven’t tried going to a different house. I’m shaking from the cold. The door is locked. I don’t know what to tell them but I know that nowhere else will feel like home. Sometimes I just wish there was someone else here on the porch with me and we could stay together under the umbrella hand in hand, side by side until the storm passes and I don’t feel like I’m throwing everything away.

So I hope some of this has given you at least a brief insight into what this experience is like and why this really matters and why this is such an important thing.

Jody: So good. And I know a lot of people on this call, TJ, like you said are coming from a place of wanting to support and love, whether it be a family member, I have a brother who’s gay who has left the church, wanting to do a better job. How do we do that?

TJ: You are killing these transitions because that is the next section. Okay, so yeah, the next section I’ve got is some specific actionable steps that you can take so I’m going to start with what not to say and what to say because I think that’s where the easiest stuff is. So first, don’t say, “You will be fixed or changed in the next life.” First of all, it implies that it’s a problem to be fixed. But more importantly than that, LGBTQ+ individuals have suicidal thinking and actions at 500% the rate of straight and cisgendered people, especially teenagers.

And we don’t actually have that doctrine, that’s actually not something that’s ever been taught officially in the church that anything will be changed in that way in the next life. But when you say that or imply that to someone who’s already struggling with knowing if they can be accepted or loved in this life, it’s really easy to think, well, if things are going to be fixed or changed in the next life then I just want to take that shortcut to get there. I’m done with this life, I’ll just get to the next one. And obviously we don’t want to put someone in that position.

So I will say this, all of these don’t says are things that people think sound helpful but actually aren’t. So we want to just to avoid them. Another one, everyone has trials, you just have to overcome this. Being LGBTQ isn’t a trial, it’s not like you’re struggling with you really want to drink alcohol but you can’t. It’s not like that because this is about who you are and who you love. It’s not something that’s harmful.

Anything like, well, remember, the family proclamation says or scripture says or the prophet says they know, I promise they know. They have studied it to death, they know all [crosstalk].

Jody: We don’t need to be reminded.

TJ: Yeah, they know all of the things that it says. They are fully aware. I love you but I don’t support that lifestyle. Even if you don’t support that lifestyle that’s you, that’s your model. You don’t need to project that onto them. That does nothing but drive a wedge between relationships. Stop using the hurtful phrases, some of the ones that we’ve used before, things like, well, it’s a sign of last days, it’s Satan’s temptations, it’s an attack on the family, they’ve been tricked etc. Obviously those are very hurtful.

And the last one is any sort of statement around, well, you can never be truly happy if you’re outside of the church or outside of the gospel. I really don’t believe that this is true because if it were that would mean that there are 7.985 billion people on the planet who are not truly happy. And I can’t imagine a loving God that would have set up that kind of a system. There are plenty of people who are and can be truly happy outside the church.

And I would go so far as to say that in my mind if our loving heavenly parents had to choose between their child going to church every Sunday but hating themselves and not knowing if they can continue living versus leaving this organized religion and finding a way to truly love themselves and find some other way to connect with divinity and deity. Our loving parents would choose that second option every single time.

Jody: I’m just going to add, that’s exactly how I think about it with my brother is I want him to be happy, as happy as possible. And going to church makes it a lot harder for him to be happy. And so I’m like, “I wouldn’t go to church either if it made it a lot harder to be happy.” And I saw the testimony of this church and he still has a testimony actually of the church. But I think we have to remember and even with our kids, what if you have teenagers at home and you’re trying to help navigate, do I make them go to church or not?

We are all meant to have agency and we can’t know what would make someone else happy. It’s just not that simple. I feel we grossly oversimplify what are really complex dynamic situations like this. Anyway.

TJ: Absolutely, yeah. Okay, so now some things that you can say that are very much [crosstalk] to say. An easy one is thank you for sharing such an important part of your life with me. It means so much to me that you would trust me enough to share this. Something like that just can – it doesn’t say you’re supporting or not or whatever. It’s just, thank you for trusting me with this because it’s a big part of your life.

Another one, I will love you and support you. And I’ll say this, be specific when you’re telling an LGBTQ person the extent of your love because a lot of us worry, well, you love me now but what if I stop going to church? Or what if I have a same sex partner? Or what if I transition to a different gender? I will love you and support you no matter what your future life or church involvement is. Or you and your future partner will always be welcome in our home and with our family.

Those kinds of statements that give specifics really helps someone feel they see you and that they understand and that your love is not conditional. Or I hope you will keep coming to me as you learn more about yourself. I want to be involved in your life as much as possible. This is a really good one to share, if someone’s still figuring out what they identify as or what labels they’re going to use or whatever. It opens the door to more future conversations and hopefully, that’s our goal is to help people feel like they are wanted and involved in our lives as much as they can be.

Jody: I like that.

TJ: Okay, so now some things that you can do, some actionable steps in addition to the things that you can say. The first one is I want to give you permission to grieve the picture that you’ve lost of what you thought their life would look like, especially if it’s your kid. The minute you got that ultrasound telling you the sex of that kid, you had a picture in your head of everything that would happen in their life of them growing up, going to young men’s, young women’s or going on a mission or getting married and all the stuff was all in your head.

And now that picture is gone and that can be very hard and it’s okay to grieve that picture. But it’s important to remember while you’re grieving that the picture that the real person is still there and that they still want your love. And that the picture that’s new and is forming is not necessarily any worse or less happy than that other picture. It’s just different and it’s okay to grieve the loss of that first one but don’t let it get in the way of loving the person who’s there with you.

Jody: I love that.

TJ: I’d encourage you if you feel comfortable to speak up at church or at home, etc. If someone says something that you feel is dismissive or ostracizing or whatever of anyone honestly but of LGBTQ+ people in specific. It can be something as simple as you know what, there are people in this room who have LGBTQ+ family members or who maybe are LGBTQ+ themselves. And let’s not talk about them as if they’re some other group because we want everyone to feel loved and included here.

Saying something like that not only obviously will help the people who are openly LGBTQ in the room but I would be willing to bet that there’s a lot of people in that room that you don’t know who are either LGBTQ but aren’t out yet because they don’t feel safe or who have LGBTQ+ friends and family. And that has just signaled to them, I might actually be able to be safe here. And that can make such a big difference to someone.

Jody: Yeah, I love that. That’s good.

TJ: I’d encourage you to invite the LGBTQ+ people in your life everywhere, to all of your dinners and family gatherings etc. And to show up for them everywhere. And I will say yes, including weddings. Elder Christofferson I believe it was actually recently specifically said that there’s no problem with attending an LGBTQ+ wedding as a temple worthy member of the church.

I like to compare it to if you had a neighbor who was Catholic for example, who invited you to their baby’s baptism, even though in the LDS church we have doctrine that’s different belief than that. We don’t believe that that’s the correct form of baptism, I bet most of us would show up out of love and support and respect for a very important day in their life and we can do the same thing for an LGBTQ wedding.

Okay, so now here are a few things that you can do specifically related to some questions that we got in the questionnaire. One was, how can I talk about church teachings or principles especially if the other person doesn’t want me to or if they feel like I’m attacking them? Just examine your goal, make sure that if your goal is to force them back to church, not going to work, it’s not going to go well. If it’s to express God’s love for them then it needs to happen in a way that they will feel it, not in the way that you would feel it.

You can still teach principles, for example, if you have an LGBTQ+ child, you can still teach safety with dating. You can still teach saving sex for marriage. You can still teach those principles within a context that doesn’t make them feel ostracized or excluded. You can still teach principles and you can still express a lot of love. The family proclamation is one that gets a lot of questions.

The simplest way for me to address that whenever it gets brought up is that in the third to last paragraph it states, ‘other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation’. I lean on that sentence a lot. I think being gay or transgender is definitely an individual circumstance that may necessitate adaptation.

Jody: One thing I want to interject is when it comes to the proclamation and the family proclamation or any scripture, church council. I think it’s such a challenge for our leaders to try to talk to a global church and simplify it down and make it always apply. And so when we take those things so literally we’re missing the whole point. That document also says the role of the father is to provide for the needs of the family. And so I’m like, “Well, what if the woman is the one providing, does that mean we’re going against the proclamation?”

We can really dissect anything and make it into what it’s not intended, it’s intended to draw us closer together. And so just be careful with taking anything too literally I guess is what I’m saying.

TJ: And it was a document meant to give hope and guidance and not meant to be weaponized against anyone.

Jody: Yes, exactly.

TJ: Another big question they brought up is, how do I talk to my kids about it? This is a very fair question. Kids are smarter than we think. They’re more capable than we think. Be direct, be straightforward and age appropriate. If little Johnny comes home from third grade and says that, “So and so in my class has got two dads, what’s that about?”

You can just say, “Yeah, you know what, most of the time people have a mommy and a daddy. But some people have two mommies and some people have two daddies. And we love all of them just the same.” That’s it. You don’t have to go into any details.

Jody: That’s probably enough at that age.

TJ: Doesn’t have [crosstalk] sexual talk. Yeah, that’s all they need for their age. The problem that I see happening and I’ve experienced this personally is when you try to give, especially too young of children, “Well yeah, it’s okay, we love them but Jesus doesn’t want them to have two daddies.” It’s too hard for a young brain to hold those two things at the same time. And all he’s going to do is go to that kid in the school and say, “Jesus doesn’t like that you have two daddies.” And all we’ve done is we’ve created a bully.

So keep it simple, keep it direct. You can still teach principles and be super, super loving and open and honest with your kids.

Jody: And one of the things that helps me if I have an area, maybe I’m new to understanding a transgender situation or what have you. And I don’t want to teach my kid to be a bully but I think there’s a lot of fear. Sometimes I just relate it to something that I am already at peace with like what would I say if they were like, “Johnny’s dad smokes?” And we don’t smoke. I wouldn’t make this big deal about it like, “Jesus is upset about that.” I would just be like, “Some people smoke and we don’t smoke and everyone makes their own choices and we just love everyone.”

Sometimes relate it to something that you do have a lot of peace around and you’ll understand how to translate that I feel like.

TJ: Yeah, that’s a very good example. There were also a lot of questions around use of pronouns for transgender people. A lot of people struggle with this. It can be tough to just, even if you want to, to switch it in your brain to use different pronouns is a process. It’s switching language. It’s a hard thing for your brain to do. And a lot of people, calling back to what we talked about before are concerned, well, what if this is just a phase?

Or what if they’re just doing this to be popular? If I use the pronouns they’re asking me to, am I not just making this [crosstalk]?

Jody: Reinforcing it.

TJ: Yeah, in fact the opposite is true. Using pronouns that they have asked for, if they’re not already actually transgender it won’t make them transgender. But if you refuse to use the pronouns that they’ve asked for, all you’re teaching them is that you don’t trust them and you don’t believe them. They’re going to feel they have to prove to you their identity and what they think and what they believe. And if it were a phase and the phase ended you’ve taught them that you’re not a safe person to come back to.

And they won’t feel they can come to you and say, “Actually, I was wrong about that. I thought it might be true but it’s not. I’m going to go back to my old name and pronouns.” Now, they feel they have to prove it and they can’t take it back because they fought so hard to gain their ground.

Whereas on the other hand if you use the names and pronouns that they’ve asked of you and turns out that it was a phase they’ll feel like, yeah, mom and dad love me and support me. And they were willing to go on this journey with me and I can just know that I can go to them and they won’t say, “I told you so”, or anything like that. It’s a principle called psychological reactance, it’s really important but especially in this case using the pronouns will not make them more transgender if they’re not.

Okay, so the last one is just get comfortable with I don’t know. It’s not our job to know. That’s our heavenly parent’s job, is to know and to figure out and to sort it out. Our job is to love and that’s it. And anything that we don’t know that’s freaking us out that we feel is hindering our love we can just leave it to our heavenly parents because they’re a lot better at their job than we would be. We can just leave it up to them.

I really have a hard time believing that at the pearly gates anyone will be turned away for having loved too much, supported too much, any of that. That, I just don’t think that that’s ever going to be the case.

Jody: I agree.

TJ: I’ll finish with, there was one question that was asked that I think really applies to the model which was, how does it not break our hearts when our kids tell us they are LGBTQ+? Your kid being queer is a circumstance. And as we all know that means it’s neutral. So if it’s breaking your heart it’s because your thoughts are making it break your heart. So I collected a few quotes from actual parents of LGBTQ+ people that I’d like to share of how their thought line is changing this for them.

My heart has been broken wide open to love like my heavenly parents. I feel closer to heavenly father, heavenly mother and Jesus Christ than I have in my entire lifetime. What an honor to be part of my child’s life. I’m closer to Christ and my heavenly parents now than I ever was before. I consider the opportunity to be the mother of a gay son to be the privilege of my life and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I can’t even imagine not knowing and understanding the beautiful and eternal things I have learned because of having a gay daughter.

I have expanded my view of God’s love and I love bigger now. And those are all thoughts that are just as available to you as this breaks my heart. So that’s the end of my [crosstalk].

Jody: That was amazing.

TJ: Thank you.

Jody: Thank you so much for sharing all of that. We have several people asking how to get a copy of that analogy that you shared.

TJ: So yes, it is a lady named Becky Edwards who is part of some of your programs also I know. And she’s a coach and she shared it on her Instagram. Yeah, I may be sharing it on my own as well.

Jody: Okay, yeah. We’ll check out Instagram. I’ve got a question here for you. And feel free everybody, we have 15 minutes left so TJ will field questions. There’s a couple here and I don’t know how much you want to get into doctrine but somebody says, “If gender isn’t binary, how do you think it fits with the Genesis account of God creating male and female and the proclamation statement, no gender being a premoral attribute and that there was not mismatching of bodies?” Thoughts.

TJ: Sure, yeah. The Adam and Eve thing I think we can get into a lot of slippery slope with the Adam and Eve thing because how do we have different races? There’s so many things that if you boil it down to, well, God only created Adam and Eve. Yeah, but what race do you think Adam and Eve were and how do we get all these other races then? Just because something is in the story of what Adam and Eve were created as, doesn’t mean that everything outside of that isn’t possible.

What if Adam and Eve were both right handed, how do we get left handed people? There’s a lot. So I wouldn’t get too tripped up on that. The family proclamation like I mentioned has a lot that I think is tricky to unpack sometimes. One of the things that I think I like to think about is that when it says gender is eternal, I don’t necessarily think that that’s wrong but I don’t think that it has to mean because you were born with a vagina your female gender is eternal. That there is a complex intersection of masculinity and femininity inside of every single one of us.

And for a lot of those people those traits do not match what is easily observable and that people would assume to be their gender. And that doesn’t have to take away anything from that person’s eternal soul or their premortal existence or their eternal existence or anything else.

Jody: This is me totally making stuff up so everyone can just ignore this. But I just think we are all, all genders and all religions and all races and all sexualities. And I feel in the next life we’re all just going to love each other and be so connected. All of these things we use to disconnect, race, gender, sexuality, religion. We use it to silo ourselves off and we are not that, we are all connected.

And we’ll understand that, I don’t know what that will look like in the next life. But I don’t think it will be more like – you’ll be totally tied to your gender or your sexuality. I think it will be the opposite. I think it will be, everyone will love each other.

TJ: I think the other part of that that I just want to add on is that like we said, I don’t know is a really important thing to get comfortable with in these spaces. I don’t know what the next life is going to look like etc. I don’t know what the previous life looked like when it comes to gender and all those things. What I do know is that if in the next life I was wrong and that there really are only two binary genders, period, end of story. I will still feel proud and happy of the fact that I helped people who were struggling in this life to feel loved and accepted and supported.

And that I helped them feel like they could live a full and happy life outside of our current understanding of gender binary. And if God needs to work out something else in the next life, if God has to do something on that side, they’re going to take care of it and it’s going to be perfect and fine and great. And if I can help someone feel better in this life I don’t feel if someone is transgender forcing them to stick in every way with our socially constructed ideas of what masculine or feminine is.

That doesn’t necessarily make them happier or closer to God or anything in this life. So I just try to take care of what I can in this life.

Jody: Yeah, that’s great. Okay, this question says, “It seems with my friends who come out and say they are gay, they seem to be happy for a while but then they become depressed and do not stay happy for long in or out of the church. So why are they not happy? They seem to just find blame and hate against the world and I know this is generally speaking but this is what I have seen a lot.”

TJ: I think it’s always important to remember that I know a lot of miserable straight people too. So what I would say with that, there are a lot of pressures that I cannot get into in this entire thing but when you are a queer person in a heteronormative, cis normative society there are a lot of barriers that you don’t anticipate experiencing. And when you first come out it feels like this huge weight off your shoulders and you’re just like, “Finally I can just be myself and I can just be happy. And I cannot have to hide who I am”, and all these great things.

When you’re closeted you’re worried that, well, all these people say they love me, but what if they knew the truth, they wouldn’t still love me. And then once you come out and they still do love you for the most part, it feels like the best thing. And then you go through your life and you realize that, wait, there are still people who will hate me just because of my sexuality or my gender identity. Wait, there are still the places that I wish that I could belong, that don’t want me there.

There are still all of these issues that are coming up. There are still family members who are rejecting me, there are still all these things. And yeah, unfortunately a lot of times, no matter the person’s gender or sexual identity, people turn as we know to unhealthy coping mechanisms to try to deal with those things whether it’s drugs or sex or anything else. And that often leads them to cycling through that unhappiness and we see that happening a lot of the time and it’s very unfortunate.

But being gay itself has not made them unhappy. Being gay in a world that has constantly and repeatedly told them that that’s unacceptable has made them unhappy.

Jody: Good point. These two questions kind of go back, it’s about if you have a child, one’s saying, “I have a child who I think may be gay, they’re only 10. Is it ever appropriate to ask that? And what do we say if so?” And then another one says, “I have a nine year old who seems gender confused, I don’t want to overthink it. He’s nine, he’s just obsessed with all things girl. Do you have any advice for parents of young children?”

TJ: I think the best thing you can do in those cases is just to express your love for other people in that community because your kids will hear that and will recognize that when they figure it out. When they want to come out to you they will have heard those things growing up and know that you’re a safe person to come to. I don’t think you need to push anything because yeah, they are young and a lot of people do know at very young ages.

A lot of other people it takes them till they’re much older to figure that out and there’s a lot of reasons for that. But if you as the parent are always, even if it’s something as simple, yeah, our neighbors down the street, that gay couple down the street, we love them. They’re just the best. We love having them around. Something as simple as that can let these kids know that you are a safe person to come to. And that just like you love those neighbors you will love them.

Jody: And I think also it’s like you were saying about you answer things in age appropriate ways. A nine year old or a 10 year old and I realize gender attraction isn’t just about sex. That’s actually the most minor part of it probably. But still attraction in general a nine year old isn’t really thinking about in the way that a teenager or a young adult is. And so you keep it age appropriate, makes it a little easier I think. Okay, let’s see. We’ve got a few more. Again, sort of similar but maybe you could speak to this one.

It says, “Mostly I think this whole issue is other people’s business but when it’s my own kids I kind of feel it’s somewhat my business. And that if I just don’t say anything or offer any opinions they take that as consent or anything goes mentality.” You kind of spoke to this before with you can still say, “These are our dating parameters. And you can still teach law of chastity.” It’s no different than if you have heterosexual kids, right?

TJ: I think where we get tripped up is people are so, parents especially and understandably because they want the best life for their kid and a lot of us were raised in a world where being queer was going to make your life really, really hard and really scary and really bad. And so parents want the best for their kids. It can be a scary thing and make you nervous, whatever, I get it. If your kid’s gay they’re gay. If your kid is trans they’re trans.

No amount of gospel teaching or not talking about it or talking too much about it or any of that is going to change that circumstance. It is what it is. So you can just figure out what is your real goal. If in talking about with your gay kid about dating priorities you can talk to them about it in a way that helps them be healthy and happy in that, just as much as your straight kids or with gender identity or any of the other things.

We can talk about it but if we’re talking about it in a way because we’re hoping that if we talk about it in the right way it will make it go away or it will make it not happen or it’ll make it less likely that they are gay or trans. None of that works so stop worrying so much about saying or doing the things that will make your kids more or less likely to be gay or trans. And just start saying the things that are going to make your kid more or less likely to know your unconditional love for them.

Jody: Yeah, that’s beautiful. And working on yourself, on understanding people better and in all situations especially the ones that are intersecting in your world, to your point. Even just attending a course like this, I guarantee we’ve all learned things that changed your perspective and then you’re going to change how you show up. This one if you don’t mind I’ll take a stab at it. She says, “I feel like I am loving and Christlike to the LGBTQ+ community. And my concern is saying the wrong thing, not meaning to offend or judge but out of lack of understanding. As I try to say the right thing I say the wrong thing.”

And my thought is, yes, that’s a valid concern but I think like you said, honesty and openness is always for me the best policy and to be transparent about, I don’t mean to use the wrong pronouns or the wrong whatever. Please correct me if I get it wrong. Just like if someone who is not a member of my faith is talking to me about the church and they use the wrong words. And I don’t take that as offensive. But if they said to me, “I don’t know how you describe it, you tell me.”

Then I would be very understanding that they’re not familiar with the language and I think honesty is always our best approach. When we’re trying to love people we can admit, I don’t know how to say it, I don’t know the right way, please teach me.

TJ: Yeah. And I’ve never been offended by someone saying the wrong thing when I could tell that they were trying. And you can very easily, a lot of my transgender friends have said the same thing. Yeah, people use the wrong pronouns a lot but I can tell the people who are trying and just slipped up and the people who are refusing. And it’s very easy to tell the difference. So no one’s, I mean I won’t say no one, the vast majority of people won’t get mad at you for trying and messing up sometimes.

Jody: Yeah, I love it. This is a good one because we haven’t talked about this that much. “I get triggered by comments in Sunday School and sacrament meeting against LGBTQIA+ community. I have a child that identifies that way. I usually get up and leave. Any advice on how I can get to the place where I can stay and speak up?”

TJ: It’s hard. Three Sundays ago I left during Sunday School because of something that was said. I feel I’ve gotten to the place the majority of the time I’m able to talk about it. I think a lot of it is just a lack of awareness. And it’s usually just the first time is the hardest. And once that tone has been set usually the people in the ward who know you and who know, they don’t even have to know that your child identifies as LGBTQ.

But the first time you say, “Hey, there are people in this room who have LGBTQ+ friends and family. And maybe people in this room who are themselves LGBTQ+. So let’s always talk about everyone in a loving and inclusive way so they know that they have a spiritual home here just as much as anyone else.”

That kind of a statement doesn’t go against any doctrine, doesn’t go against any church statement or policy or anything. But that awareness enters the collective of the class and the culture of the ward and it becomes a lot easier in the future for people who may be are thinking of making one of those statements to say, “Wait, actually, maybe this isn’t what I say today.” The first time is the hardest and I’m sure there’s a lot of great coaching thought work that can be done around where the hang ups are for that.

Jody: Yeah. That’s what I was going to say, as a coach I would say, “It may be that being angry is where you need to be right now.” It’s okay to be angry. At some point you’re probably not going to want to stay angry forever and at some point you can contribute positively to this situation by working through it and that’s where coaching can come into play. You take a look at what am I thinking that’s making me angry. This is a situation where I like to do what I call pre coaching.

Okay, if a statement like that comes up again and you just gave us a great example of something I might want to say. What will I need to be thinking in order to say it in the way I want to, not say it out of defensiveness and anger, what do I need to think? Is it a thought like people just don’t understand but I’m here to contribute this or whatever? We can sort of prep you just like TJ has prepped this with some words. We can prep you with some thoughts. But I don’t want to imply that everyone should hurry and get there, some anger sometimes called for I think.

Thank you so much. This has been so valuable and I just want to echo what you said that I think all of us probably have a close family member, a friend or somebody who identifies as LGBTQIA. And I think like you said, we all want to love better. And really I have found whether it be this or racism or any other issue that is starting over the last couple of years we’ve seen really have more of a platform.

I have found that educating myself like you’ve done for us today here has been the best way to better understand it and change my heart and that’s what we’re trying to do here. So, so appreciative. Remind us once again, we can go to your Instagram, TJ?

TJ: Yeah. So my Instagram @tjcounseling. I just do a lot of general mental health stuff there. I have a lot of free videos. I have a whole document of books and podcasts and places on my website of LGBTQ+ resources. You can sign up for a free consult call with me or if you or anyone you know is looking for a therapist that works in this area I have opened right now. I just started my private practice, I’m really excited about that.

Jody: I love it, okay.

TJ: And that’s at tjcounseling.com.

Jody: Okay, awesome. Thank you, TJ, thank you everyone for your great questions. Alright, we’ll see you later.

TJ: Thank you, guys.

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The post 396. Supporting your LGBTQ+ Friends While Keeping Your Faith appeared first on Jody Moore.

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The way that thoughts appear in our brains is generally in question format. Especially when you’re an entrepreneur, your brain is asking questions like, “Why isn’t this working?” or, “What’s the matter with me?” Sometimes, these questions are helpful; other times, they aren’t. So, if we tend to think in questions, we better make sure they’re useful questions.

What I’ve found is if I choose a useful question to ask, I get a useful answer, or a bunch of them. If I don’t intentionally choose a useful question, my brain generally comes up with something totally unhelpful. So, listen in to start asking the kinds of questions that generate answers that can actually move you forward and solve problems.

Tune in this week to discover where we tend to go wrong with asking and answering questions, and what you can do about it. I’m sharing why our default brain tends to come up with unhelpful questions and answers, and how to access the wisest, smartest part of your brain when coming up with solutions for your business.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why, unless we pay attention, we end up asking ourselves unhelpful questions. * How to identify those moments when your brain is asking unhelpful questions. * What happens when you slow your brain down to answer a question. * How to access the most wise and logical part of your brain when you’re looking for solutions in your business. * My favorite question to ask myself when solving a problem in my business.

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I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Useful Questions.

Hey, everybody, listen, first of all, I want to tell you exactly how I built a business from nothing to where it is today which is a seven-figure business with a staff of employees, and a pretty awesome schedule that I can choose when I’m going to work or not. And I want that for you if you want that. And so I created a free training where I walk you through exactly how I did it and exactly how you can do it too. So if you haven’t already gotten my free training, you’ve got to go get it. It’s at jodysfreetraining.com.

Today I want to talk to you about useful questions because a lot of the way that thoughts appear in our brains is in question format. And especially when you’re an entrepreneur there’s constantly questions. How am I going to do this? Why isn’t this working? What’s the matter with me? Is this ever going to work? Should I even be doing this? Why is she so much better than me? Why can’t I figure it out? Am I going to offend somebody? Am I doing this right? Did I make the right choice? How much should I charge?

I mean there are a few. Those are the questions that my brain offers me all the time. Maybe you have those and others but what I found is that if I choose a useful question, wait for it, wait for it, I get a useful answer. I get a bunch of hopefully useful answers. If I don’t intentionally choose a useful question my brain is just going to offer me a bunch of random questions that may or may not generate useful answers for me.

So those of you who are coaches like myself who were trained at The Life Coach School know that when we have a question, and the thought line we always used to answer the question. But here’s what I find. When I’m coaching a client and they ask me a question and I say, “Let’s answer that.” Then I watch them and of course, this happens because we’re slowing the brain down in coaching. We’re taking a look at it. So they go into their prefrontal cortex to answer the question.

And the prefrontal answers it in a really wise and logical and reasonable way. The problem is during the rest of our lives when we’re not slowing it down and being intentional, it’s not the prefrontal cortex answering that question, it’s the lower default brain that is not as wise or logical. It’s actually super dramatic, that part of our brains.

So for example, if I’m coaching somebody and I hear the thought, what’s the matter with me, they might ask that. Or let me make it a little bit more specific. Let’s say the thought is, am I a good enough mom? Am I doing a good job raising these kids? So in coaching, I might say, “Let’s answer that. Are you a good enough mom? Are you doing a good job?” And then they go to their prefrontal and they say things like, “Well, sometimes in some ways I’m doing a good job and maybe not in others but I know there’s no perfect mom.”

It’s a very lovely reasonable logical answer. The problem is when they’re not with me in a coaching session and their brain says, “Am I a good mom? Am I doing a good enough job?” The default brain says, “No, probably not. You’re messing them all up. You’re falling short. You’re never going to be good enough.” That’s the real reason that question is a problem because it’s not giving us anything useful.

So now let’s apply this to your business. If the questions are, “Why can’t this convert? Why can’t I get this to work?” Why can’t I get my ad to work? Why aren’t people signing up?” And you just default let those questions come and you don’t slow them down and pay attention then your lower brain is probably answering, “I don’t know.” Isn’t that the initial answer, why can’t I get this to work? I don’t know. It’s so not useful. There’s nothing useful about that question. There is nothing useful about that answer.

When you think the thought, I don’t know, guess how you feel? Confused, overwhelmed, frustrated. At least that’s how I feel. If I don’t know something that I want to know I feel terrible. That is not the energy by which you want to be building your business. So you can choose whatever other question you want that serves you. The way you know if it’s serving you and if it’s useful is by the answers that it will generate. Now, these answers may not come easily. Your brain might still try to say, “I don’t know.”

But as long as you’re prepared for that and you expect it and you open yourself up to maybe I could figure it out, maybe there is a way. Let’s be open to finding the real answer to this question then you’re on the right track. So why isn’t this working, maybe ultimately if you can open yourself up and when I don’t know comes up you can say, “But I bet I can figure it out, let’s stay open.” And that even could be a useful question. But I’m just wanting to give you today my most favorite question, are you ready?

When it comes to my business, this question has made me so much money, has helped me be more creative and brilliant than I otherwise could be on my own and it’s this. What would make this easier and more fun? I don’t know about you but part of my brain thinks that building a business and increasing conversions and all of the other stuff that goes into that isn’t easy or fun. It’s hard. It’s so hard. I don’t know how. I don’t want to figure it out. I don’t want to learn technology. I’m not good at technology. I’m not good with numbers. Anyone besides me have that happening in your brain?

So when I think there’s a right way, when I think it should look a certain way I tend to get stuck. But when I ask myself, what would make this easier and more fun, instead of what’s the right way to do this, suddenly I access my own wisdom for me. And it’s not wisdom that is going to work for everybody, it’s really not. It’s just for me given my personality, my strengths, where I am, what I’m trying to achieve and my business. This particular thing would make it easier and more fun.

Now, the next thing and I’ll give you some examples in a minute but the next thing you have to do is give yourself permission. Allow it to be easy and fun. This is kind of mind-blowing. So let me give an example. A few years ago we decided, when I say, I mean my husband and I. We decided we needed to hire more help in our business. We were ready to start hiring employees.

Neither one of us was super excited about that because both of us had experience in corporate with having employees. And that can at times be could, for us anyway in the past be one of the most challenging parts of our jobs. It is actually in some ways to me way easier to just do everything myself. And this isn’t even about employees. I had a lot of great employees in my day and so did my husband.

But still to try to figure out what’s in your head and get it out of your head in a way that makes sense to somebody else and explain it to them so that they can execute on it is challenging to do. It’s way easier to just do it yourself. The only problem is, at some point, you max out how much you can just do on your own. And so we realized we need to hire some people. And we wanted to hire some people.

So the hiring process alone, I was super overwhelmed with, I was like, “How am I going to find the right person and how am I going to know if they’re right? And how much do we have to pay them and do we have to give benefits? And how does that work?” And just so much drama and overwhelm my brain wanted to indulge in. And even down to writing a job description and posting it. I could not get my head around how to do that. And maybe just some of you, you’re like, “It’s not hard.” But for me it really was. I was really resisting it and fighting it.

And when I finally remembered my magic question that changes everything then it worked, it changed everything. I said to myself, “What would make this easier and more fun?” And you know what I decided would make it easier and more fun? Is, if I reached out to somebody else who I know and trust who is just a little bit ahead of me in terms of knowing how to hire employees and I got some advice. And it turns out that that person I reached out to, actually even said, “I would love to be involved in this process and help you if you would let me.”

And I said, “Great, that would for sure make it easier and more fun.” And I said, “Now, I want to learn it. I need to be involved with you.” And he said, “Absolutely.” But he guided me through it and he showed me how he makes it easy and fun for himself. So that is just one example of when that question has served me. But here’s the key. You can’t tell yourself that there’s a right or wrong way to do it. I’ve actually hired a lot of employees in my business who are either my family or my close friends.

And what’s the advice we hear about hiring family and close friends? Don’t do it. That’s what everybody says. So it’s not that I don’t consider people’s advice. I find out why people think that and I tell myself the truth about what I’m signing up for. But you know what makes it easier and more fun to me? Is to hire people that I already know a little bit about, that I already know I enjoy working with, that I already trust. That makes it easier and more fun for me to hire employees. And so I have allowed myself to do that. And I can’t even tell you how this question just opens your mind up.

And again, this doesn’t even have to be in your business. You could use this with all kinds of things. If you’re trying to lose weight what will make it easier and more fun? If you’re trying to figure out how to keep the house clean and how to get the kids and everyone to help, what would make it easier and more fun? I promise, there’s always a way. And you know what we like to do? Things that are easy and fun, that ultimately get us the result we want. Now, be careful because notice I said easier.

So that doesn’t mean we’re not willing to do challenging things but you can do amazing challenging things and make them as easy as possible, why not? So set big goals but make them as easy and fun for yourself to achieve, not just achieving the goal isn’t easy and fun but the process, what would make the process easier and more fun? Ask yourself that question. Ask yourself any other useful question you want to that’s going to generate possible useful answers.

And if the first answer your brain comes up with is I don’t know, just say, “Okay, but let’s just stay open. Let’s just try to discover it.” Don’t feel like you have to answer questions like this right away. I don’t usually know answers right away. I let myself live with the question.

I let the question be there in my head so that when I’m listening to a random podcast that has nothing to do with business suddenly something triggers in the answer, something that somebody says. Some story somebody tells, some example somebody gives, something I’m reading, something I see in the grocery store triggers an answer to the question if I have a good useful question and I don’t shut it down with I don’t know. Give it a try, my friend, ask yourself useful questions and you will get useful answers for your business. See you next week for more Entre-Talk, take care.

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Have you ever not liked someone? Maybe you have somebody in mind who you’re not crazy about right now? Obviously, I hope this is never an issue for you. But it is for me, and I think it’s the same for most people on the planet, so that’s what we’re diving into today and I’m showing you how to get some peace of mind and leverage over this situation.

There will always be people in the world that we won’t like, and you can’t make yourself like them. So, what now? The truth is, other people aren’t going to change, so it’s our job to admit what’s going on, stop dancing around it, stop focusing on the other person, and manage ourselves in the most empowering way possible.

Tune in this week to discover what to do when you don’t like someone. I’m sharing how we tend to make this situation harder for ourselves and bring on our own negative emotion, and I’m showing you how to deal with your feelings about this other person, step by step, so you can make peace if you’re in this scenario.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: Why we generally don’t say out loud or admit when we don’t like someone. * How we disempower ourselves by focusing on the other person when we don’t like someone. * Some of the stories you might be telling yourself instead of just admitting that you* don’t like them. * Why focusing solely on the person you don’t like isn’t helping you experience peace around your feelings. * Where you might be pushing yourself away from what’s true. * My step-by-step guide for what to do in those situations where you just don’t like someone.

Mentioned on the Show:

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*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
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TV Show: Bad Sisters

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 395, When You Don’t Like Someone.

Hey, welcome to the podcast. Do you ever not like someone? I hope that’s never an issue for you but it is for me and it is, I think for most everyone actually. So we’re going to dive into that topic today and I’m going to help show you how to get some peace of mind and leverage over this situation even though there will always be people in the world that we won’t like. So what now? I’ll tell you. First I want to make sure that you’re registered for Wellness Week because it’s happening right around the corner. Did you know spring is coming? Isn’t that the best news ever?

And I love in love in spring to think about fresh starts, new beginnings, baby chicks, things blossoming, everything coming back to life. And I want you to feel that same kind of rebirth for yourself and that’s why I’m doing Wellness Week. And this is probably the last time we’ll do it so don’t miss it. We’re going to focus on the five pillars of well-being which are emotional health, physical health, financial health, social health and spiritual health. And I have so much I could teach you about each one of those. But I’m going to do a little teaching and we’re going to do a lot of coaching.

So I want you to come and hear the power of coaching, whether you, come live and get coached or you just want to listen in if you’re curious about coaching if you’re curious about whether or not group coaching could really provide the benefits you want or if you really think you need private coaching or if you need therapy. This would be the best way for you to get that question answered. People ask me those questions all the time and the truth is I don’t know, come and try it out and see. I think it’s super powerful but maybe it won’t be for you.

But it’s 19 bucks, so five days, what have you got to lose? There’ll be replays too if you can’t come live. So you’ll get access to the replays for a couple of weeks actually. So come and check that out at jodymoore.com/intensive. So I want to talk to you about what to do, what to pay attention to how to manage yourself when you don’t like someone. And what I want to say first and foremost is that a lot of us don’t ever say out loud that we don’t like someone because we don’t want to be a person who doesn’t like others or who judges others.

We want to be kind and we want to be open and we want to embrace everyone. And so we don’t say it out loud. And I’m not saying you have to say it out loud but we don’t even always admit it to ourselves. We sort of dance around it and we justify our dislike by focusing on the other person in the situation by what they do or don’t do or what they say or don’t say. And we become fixated on them which is a totally disempowering place to be.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had this experience where you find yourself ruminating about that person even when you haven’t seen or spoken to them for a little while. They come up in your thoughts. So people will say to me, “Well, I don’t have a relationship with my dad anymore.” And then they tell me all the drama in their head. I’m like, “You totally have a relationship with your dad. It’s happening in your mind and it’s not a very fun one.” But that spinning, that ruminating, that kind of thoughts that we know in the end aren’t useful. We don’t want to keep spinning on those thoughts.

We don’t want to keep focusing on the things we dislike but they come up all the time and they feel relevant and important and they generate a lot of negative emotion. So the first thing that I recommend you do is just to own where you are. So here’s what I mean by that. Instead of thinking or talking about the other person, they said this thing. I can’t believe they would act that way. I can’t believe they would make this decision. I can’t believe they would not do this thing. That’s step one.

But step two where I recommend you go is I don’t care for their behavior. I don’t approve of where they’re at, even I don’t like them. Now, again, I don’t know whether or not it’s appropriate for you to see that out loud all the time. I’m not saying run around complaining and story fondling. That’s tempting to do too, to talk to other people who also don’t like them and then we story fondle and we make our evidence and our reasons for not liking them even more valid and even stronger. I’m not talking about that.

I’m talking about you owning that your thought is I don’t like them, him or her, they’re doing it wrong. People shouldn’t do that. Friends shouldn’t behave that way. Spouses shouldn’t act that way etc. Just tell yourself the truth, I don’t like them. Notice how it’s a focus on you, what you’re thinking, what you’re believing and what you’re feeling. That is much more useful than your focus on them.

So I get clients all the time that come to calls. My clients are lovely and brilliant and amazing and they listen to the podcast and they listen to all the workshops I teach. So they already come with a much higher level of awareness than the average person. And they’ll say something like, “I just don’t know what to do because my daughter is”, let’s just say, “Dating this guy who I think is trouble. He doesn’t have a job. He is mooching off her financially. He’s not even out there looking for a job. He’s not trying. He doesn’t come to family gatherings etc.”

So they tell me all about this guy and all the reasons why they don’t like him. And they have really compelling reasons, don’t get me wrong, like everybody else listening to the call doesn’t like him either as they hear it. So here’s the problem. When we’re fixated on the guy, the guy’s not there on the call in this situation, that dude. He’s not here asking me, “Can you help me get more motivated to go get a job, to show up differently in the world?” So I don’t know how to change him.

But your focus on him is the problem because you’re waiting around for him to change for you to feel better. So what we want to do is just own first of all where you’re at. You just don’t like him. You just don’t like this guy. And it’s so funny, always say it that way, really bluntly because I’m trying to get the client to step into where they are.

And I know it’s going to be jarring because they often say things like, “Well, I mean he does have some good qualities. And my daughter seems to really like him and so I’m trying to understand him. I’m always still really nice to him. I don’t tell my daughter that I don’t like him.” So notice once again trying to step away from what’s true and where we really are pushing it away. We can’t get leverage over ourselves when we don’t understand and embrace where we are.

Now, occasionally I get a client that comes to a call, who says something a little bit more direct like, “I would like some coaching on my sister-in-law. I just really don’t like her.” Okay, now, that client always, or often anyway feels a little bit embarrassed in fact, they might even preface it with, “I know this is terrible to say but I just don’t like her.” And in my opinion, again, this is a coaching situation. So we’re not just out broadcasting on social media, “I don’t like my sister-in-law.” That’s not what I’m talking about.

But in a coaching situation if you want some help, embracing that you just don’t like her is more useful than just giving me all the justification for your dislike. It’s more useful for you I mean because when you start noticing I just don’t like her, your focus is on you, on what you’re thinking, on what you’re believing and on what you’re feeling. That is much more useful than you focusing on the other person who we can’t control, who isn’t here on the call. So that’s step one, just own the truth.

Here’s the other reason this is so useful. Let me go back to the first client example that I made up. If it’s my daughter’s dating this guy who I don’t like because he won’t get a job or again, that’s not how they say it. They say, “I’m just concerned because he doesn’t seem to be motivated and it seems like she’s paying for everything.” And then they’ll often say things like, I’ll ask them, “Why is this a problem? Why do we have like who your daughter’s dating? Why don’t we just not like him?”

And they’ll say, “Well, my daughter has pulled away from me, she’s not opening up to me so much. She’s not coming to family gatherings or she’s not connecting with me. I can tell she’s guarded.” And I’ll ask, “Why do you think that is?” And they’ll say, “Because she thinks I don’t like her boyfriend.” And I always say, “And she’s right, isn’t she?” And again we try the backpedal. We’re like, “Well, I mean again I’m very nice to him. In fact, just last week I invited them both to come to dinner but he didn’t come. He didn’t”, whatever.

It’s right back to all the judgment of him and deflecting away. And I’ll say, “Okay, but whoa, whoa, whoa. You said you think your daughter’s pulling away from you because she likes this guy and she thinks that you don’t like him and she’s right. Let’s just acknowledge she’s right. You have told me a whole bunch of reasons why you don’t like this guy. And I’m not saying”, this is moving into step two.

I’m not saying you should judge yourself for not liking him. The reason we deflect it and push it away and try to dance around it and try to just make it about him and justified is because we judge ourselves for not liking him. If you’re going to judge yourself for being where you’re at, you’re never going to be able to fully step into it and get the leverage you truly are going to want. So that is a really important part.

Number one, own the fact, own the reality at least of the current situation which is that you don’t like this person. Whether or not you say that out loud is another story. I don’t know. It’s up to you. But own it and don’t deflect away from it and don’t judge yourself for it because then you can become curious about it. You can become curious about why you don’t like this person. And you may never like this person.

You may not change your mind. I don’t think that you should all the time. I just don’t think that’s the reality of our human condition. Would it be great to? Yeah. Would it be fun? Yeah. Would it make you a more Christlike person? Of course. Do you want to become better at loving more people? Yes, I’m in, let’s do it. But I think we should tell ourselves the truth, which is, I’m buying never probably going to like everyone, I may not anyway and what if that’s okay? What if I’m not meant to? What if in fact, I’m meant to have some judgments?

Those judgments actually keep me safe in many ways. They’re meant to help me navigate the world and while, yes many times they are overdone and out of hand, judging myself and not liking myself for not liking someone else just means I have doubled up on the not liking people. So I have to just embrace that I’m a human being and I don’t like this person. Alright, that is where we’re at. That’s what’s going on right now.

I’ll tell you what’s so amazing about this. When you can embrace this and you can recognize that you’re not bad or wrong or any of those, whatever judgments you might be giving yourself. You’re just a human being who doesn’t care for the way another human being is showing up in the world. Then you have the opportunity to become more curious about it but you also have the opportunity to connect with others in your life.

So let me go back to again the example we’re playing with here of if I don’t like my daughter’s boyfriend and she says to me, “Mom, you just don’t like him.” Then I can either dance around that and deflect and sort of gaslight and be like, “Honey, what are you talking about? I invited you both for dinner last week and he just didn’t come.” And I can do that whole weird thing or I can use it as an opportunity to connect with my daughter by being real and vulnerable.

I can say, “You know what, hun, you’re right. I have a hard time with him at times. I have some judgments and ideas and thoughts. And I am working on that but here’s what is also true is that I love you. And if you like him I want to like him. So I’m working on that and I’m challenging myself to better understand why you like him. Tell me, what do you love about him?” This could be a very connecting conversation or at the very least I could be authentic and real and not gaslight my daughter.

Because when she says. “You don’t like him”, she is right, isn’t she? Own at least the part of it that’s true even if it’s not entirely true, a portion of it is true in these situations.

Finally, I’m not even going to give you, here’s how you start liking them. I don’t think that’s useful. I think there are going to be cases when you’re not going to want to or not be able to ultimately like some of the people that are going to come into your life but the curiosity goes a long way. The curiosity can turn to fascination and sometimes that can lighten the situation. It can just become sort of a humorous, that’s just what they do and it can be more playful and not so gripping for you.

And other times it might be protective. It might be a situation where you need to have a boundary or something that happens in order to protect yourself and anybody else that you have jurisdiction to be able to protect. So I’m not going to go all the way into here’s how you like them. That is possible and that will happen with some of these situations but I believe it happens in a much more natural way when you just own where you’re at. Become aware that you’re creating your own experience. Don’t delegate the power to them. You’re creating it with your thoughts but then don’t judge yourself.

And I’ve found it doesn’t work for me to be in a hurry. I have to just be slow and curious and compassionate and fascinated with myself as I am curious and fascinated with this other person. So I like to do this in fictional settings because I like to practice watching myself.

So there’s a TV show on Apple+, I think it’s on Apple+ called Bad Sisters, it’s so good. It has a little bit of language, a little bit of not entirely kid friendly. But this show which is a fictional show has a main character who is the protagonist. I think that’s what you would call him. He is just not a likeable guy. He is terrible, intentionally so. They’ve written his character to be this way. And whoever is the actor does a brilliant job of playing him. Not very far into the show you begin to hate this guy. And every time he opens his mouth you’re just like, “Oh.”

And so I like to use this situation like a TV show with a fictional character to notice myself. I’m not trying to get all the way to liking him. The writers of that show don’t want me to like him. They’re purposely writing him to be a character that we wouldn’t like. And there are going to be people in my life who I’m never going to like to be honest, people in the world anyway. But being able to be fascinated with my brain shifts me a little bit out of judgment for them and a little bit into something more useful.

And more than that it keeps me in the driver’s seat of my own experience. It shows me that I’m creating my own reality and sometimes I can evolve myself and just gain a little bit more awareness, a little bit more insight into something about myself even if I still never like that person in the end.

So as I watched this show, Bad Sisters, one of the things that I noticed is how this guy calls his wife. They have really strong accents so I can’t understand if he’s saying mommy or mammy, or mummy, something like that. And every time he said it, it just made my skin crawl. I was like, “Oh.” And again, all I’m doing is being fascinated with my own thoughts about what a marriage relationship should be and what the dynamic in a marriage should be and whether or not a husband and wife should call each other mom and dad and what I make all of that mean in the end.

Because the truth is if I’m with my husband and all of my kids sometimes I’ll say, “Dad’s going to do this, dad’s going to be home at five.” Or I’m trying to think if I do that when I’m talking directly to him. “Hey, dad.” I don’t think I do. I think I say, “Hey, Jake.” Again, it’s just fascinating insight into what is that about? Is that a power differential that I’m trying to wrestle with? Is it something weird about calling your spouse, mommy, because they are mommy to your kids. What is that? I don’t know. Interesting.

So that’s what I mean by using the things that are triggering to you to become curious and fascinated. And I don’t even mean you have to change those things. Many times I don’t even get to the answer about what is that about. I just know, that really bothers me. I have a lot of thoughts when that person says that thing, that’s interesting, I wonder what that’s about. And just planting the question, I wonder what that’s about for me is so helpful because otherwise my brain just wants to fixate on why is he such a jerk.

Which is a terrible question because what’s the answer to that? I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. If he’s not up for changing then that is a terrible useless question. But that’s interesting, what’s that about for me? What am I going to learn about the way I’ve been socialized or about my past or about my present relationships or about my future? And again this is a fictional character. And yet look at how much opportunity there is for me to become more aware of myself.

Self-awareness without self-judgment is the most empowering place to get to, I’m telling you. There are so many opportunities for it, the people that we ‘dislike’ are one such opportunity. So allow them to be that opportunity for you in your life. Again, if there are extreme situations you may need boundaries. You may need to protect yourself. You may need to remove yourself.

But even if you don’t ever see or talk to that person again can you gain the insight into yourself that’s available to you every time you run into what your brain would call a difficult person? Because it’s there, the insight is there. You might as well take life up on the opportunity it’s giving you to gain that. Why are people so peopley? I don’t know, but join me for Wellness Week and we will dive into this more. And otherwise, thanks for joining me today everybody, have a beautiful week. I’ll see you next time, bye.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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What is your castle-on-the-hill type of dream? Is it having a certain number of clients, or hitting a revenue milestone in your business? Whatever it might be, what does your relationship to your dream look like? Do you even have a relationship with it?

I like thinking of my big dreams almost like a secret lover. It’s fragile at first and you might want to keep that dream to yourself for a while because you’re not sure what will come of it, if it’ll fade, or if it’ll turn into something lasting. However you choose to nurture a relationship with your dream, whether you want to personify it, give it a name, or decide what it looks like, doing this work is more important than you think.

Join me this week for a conversation about you and your dream. You’ll hear why building a fun, playful, and loving relationship with your dream matters so much, what happens when you truly love your dream, and how it’ll make doing the nitty-gritty action tasks so much easier and worth it when you do.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* My castle-on-the-hill dream. * Why you need to nurture a healthy relationship with your dream. * How to start building a fun, playful, and loving relationship with your dream. * What happens when you love your dream.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: You and Your Dream.

Hey there friends, I want to give away all my best secrets and that is why I created a free training. If you are a coach or have a similar type of business or want to start a similar business and you’re thinking, I just don’t even know how to get started. How do I get clients? How do we build a coaching business? I know how to do it because I did it myself. I started from nothing. I knew nothing about how to be an entrepreneur. I knew nothing about online marketing.

I did know a few things I picked up from my corporate job but most of those skills did not transfer over into being an entrepreneur. And from there I have been able to build a multiple seven-figure business. And if I can do it, I promise, you can do it. So head to jodysfreetraining.com and grab my free training.

Alright, everybody listen up. I want to talk to you today about your dream, I like to call it a dream, maybe you like to call it a goal, whatever. I want to talk to you about the place you’re trying to get to, the castle on the hill. What is the place? Now, I’m not talking about the little specific measurable smart goal-type tasks that you might give yourself. If you want to set smart goals, great, do it. Smart goals are a great way to get yourself to implement a new habit and to follow through on the things that you want to be doing and that might be in your personal life or in your business.

So for those of you that aren’t familiar with smart goals, specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-bound. So those would be things like I’m going to post on Instagram once a day, five days a week for the next year. That would be a smart goal, a specific measurable, achievable relevant if posting on Instagram would be relevant to your goals and then time-bound. So you can set goals like that. That’s not what I’m talking about here.

I’m talking about why are we doing that. Why are we posting on Instagram every day? What is the ultimate goal, not just for this year but maybe in the next five years and in the next 10 years, what is your vision of where you’re trying to get to? What is the castle on the hill? And I think it’s okay if you’re not really sure. I think it’s okay if it’s a fuzzy picture. But overall what are you trying to do? You’re trying to make more of an impact? You’re trying to shift?

For me, as a life coach, I was like, “I want to shift a little bit. Whatever I can make an impact with, I want to shift the culture, especially within the LDS church for women who are moms, people who value families and people who are spending a good deal of their life and time to raising children and helping nurture the family. I want to shift their mindsets to a place of more empowerment, less martyrdom, less people-pleasing. That’s the castle on the hill for me.

And then there are different things that come into play in terms of goals or objectives or dreams that I have along the way that I think might help in that regard and maybe that vision will grow. But for me, that’s the castle on the hill. As soon as people are like, “I see the world differently”, the people that I have the most influence over, the people that I talk to in my business. As soon as they start to see themselves and the world differently and we have more confidence and less shame and we have more balance in life then I’m going to feel like I’m doing it, I’m getting to the castle on the hill.

So whatever that dream is, what do you think and feel when you think about that dream? And how often do you think about that dream by the way? Could we make it specific? I’ll tell you, I have a new castle on the hill that I’ve been talking about, I just started talking about which is, I want to have a TV show, maybe it’s a Netflix special or maybe it’s my own show on a network or something.

But I feel like coaching people in person isn’t something I’ve been able to do a whole lot of because my business is virtual and it’s different. I haven’t been able to put my finger on why it’s different. I feel like we get 10x the impact. I feel like it’s more fun for people. I feel like it’s an experience that changes people instead of just a knowing and a little bit less of an experience because this is what I’m wondering. Through Zoom or through a phone or through the computer we don’t get to engage as many of our senses and so we don’t get as rich of an experience of one another.

So it still works fine but it’s just so much more powerful in person. So the best way to get that out to a lot of people is not for me to travel all over and see all these people in person, it’s to work with somebody in person and film it for everybody else to see. That’s what I’m wondering. So anyway I digress. If the castle on the hill for me is having a Netflix special or a TV show or impacting people. Or for you maybe it’s a certain number of clients or customers or revenue or whatever it is. Then I want you to ask yourself what is my relationship like with that dream?

Do I even have a relationship with it? Do I even think about it? Have I ever articulated it out loud? Now, I will say this, I think it’s okay that in the beginning we just keep it to ourselves. That’s what I notice I do a lot, in the beginning, is that I have wanted to have this TV show. My sister, Lindsey knows this. I’ve told her and maybe I’ve mentioned it to my husband or someone. But mostly I just keep it to myself until now. I just said it on the podcast.

But I’ve been keeping it to myself because it’s fragile. It’s like when you start dating someone and you’re like, “I met someone who I think maybe I want to date. We’re sort of flirting or texting”, or however you meet people nowadays. But you don’t run out and tell everyone because it’s a fragile relationship still and you’re not really sure what’s going to come of it. It might just fade away. It might just have been a moment. It might turn into something. At some point, you’ll tell everyone but not right away.

This is the same thing we do with a pregnancy. I’m pregnant but let’s not announce it to the world unless you’re like me and I just tell everyone the moment I’m pregnant. But some people don’t because they know that they want to get to a certain point in the pregnancy at which they feel confident that it’s a healthy viable pregnancy. And then they’ll start telling more people. So your dream may be like that. You may feel like it’s fragile and therefore you want to kind of keep it to yourself and protect it. That is okay.

But still, are you nurturing a healthy relationship with that dream? Are you thinking about it in ways that make you feel excited? Do you intentionally choose how you’re going to think about it? Because if you’re like me and most people then when you think about it all of those family members in your head, I don’t mean literal family, I mean the family in your head.

There is this whole thing in the world of psychology called internal family systems which is that we all have a whole family in our head that are different voices that we’ve developed throughout our lives that try to protect us, try to help us prevent danger or failure or embarrassment etc. Those family members in your head want to shout at you sometimes or at least they want to be heard. They want to say things like, “You know, this may not work. You know people may judge you. You know you’ve never done it before.” And you can’t just ignore the family in your head.

You have to let everyone have their say but ultimately you’re in charge of that family. You make the decisions from your conscious, logical, wiser, calmer brain. You don’t just listen to the little sister that’s scared all the time. So are you having useful conversations in your head with yourself and your dream or do you just let the rowdy family run the show? Don’t let the rowdy scared family run the show. Choose intentionally how you’re going to think about that dream, how you’re going to think about the castle on the hill.

Now, here’s the other thing I like to think about. Remember I said you might keep it secret at least in the beginning? I like to think of it again like it’s sort of a secret lover if you will. We are just enjoying one another. We’re having so much fun together my dream and I and nobody really needs to know about it. It’s nobody else’s business, not like I’m hiding it because it’s bad or wrong, but just it’s no one else’s business. It’s between me and this dream. And we are having a lot of fun.

So I know so many of you, I know this from when I coach you that you are not doing that work. And I’m telling you, doing that work will make all of the rest of it easier. It will make it worth it when you have to sit down and write a bunch of marketing emails that you don’t want to write. It will make it worth it when you have to figure out technology that is overwhelming and you’re stuck and you don’t want to figure it out.

You’re doing it for your dream because you love your dream and because your dream takes good care of you, gives you something to aim for, something to progress towards, something to look forward to. Because you love that dream you’ll be willing to do all kinds of things for that dream. You’ll be willing to sacrifice a lot in the name of loving that dream. So I want you to have a relationship with your dream.

Some people go so far as to even personify their dream. They give it a name. They give it a gender. They decide what it looks like. How does it dress? What is it like? Where does it shop? If you want to do that, do that. I don’t usually take it that far with my dream but you definitely could if that helps you. What is your relationship with your dream? Because here’s the truth. You’re either neglecting that dream if you don’t ever think about it, or you have a very negative relationship with that dream if you have lots of negative thoughts and feelings about it.

So the alternative to those two options is to have a fun, positive, playful, friendly, ideally at some point loving relationship with your dream. What is your dream? What is the castle on the hill? Did you know it could be anything you want? Did you know it doesn’t have to be something that would be noble and contributing in the world? It could just be something that sounds fun to you. It could just be something that you know will stretch you and challenge you and would be kind of cool to experience in your lifetime.

Not everybody wants to have a Netflix special in fact, a lot of people think that sounds terrible. But I am unusual in this way. I’m sure it comes from some of my insecurities and shortcomings that I always want to be on a stage with a mic and in front of the world on TV. I don’t know what that’s about. Probably not healthy. I don’t really care because the way I want to do it is by helping people. So it’s a desire that I don’t think is a wrong desire.

So I let myself have fun thinking about my dream even though I still have the family in my head that’s like, “That will never happen. Who do you think you are? You’re not interesting enough to put on TV.” All of that is still there but I don’t let it stop me from having play dates with my dream and having a lot of fun with my dream. Who’s with me? Figure out your dream and then nurture a healthy relationship with it.

Thanks for joining me for Entre-Talk. Make sure you’re listening to the Friday episodes of this podcast as well, entrepreneurs, because they are going to be extremely relevant to you as you build your business but I will be back next Monday with more Entre-Talk. I’ll see you then.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: You and Your Dream appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I used to talk about shame and pride as being on opposite ends of a continuum, and the same with confidence and humility. That visual can be useful, however, I’ve been thinking about these concepts lately, so I’m offering you a new way to think about shame, pride, confidence, and humility on today’s show.

Shame is believing something is wrong with us and that we’re worse than other people, so we lower ourselves from shame and we elevate ourselves from pride, believing we’re among the best. But what if shame and pride are actually the same? I believe they’re just parts of the same lie: that there is such a thing as a human being that is better than another human being.

Tune in this week to discover why shame and pride are not opposites of each other but are the opposite of confidence and humility. I’m inviting you to consider that you may have had shame, pride, confidence, and humility wrong for your entire life, and how you can move from shame and pride, into a place of confidence and humility, and consciously stay there.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* The lie of shame and pride, and why every human being is 100% complete and valuable the moment they are born. * How, as humans, we create our own negative experiences and impede our progress, but we don’t diminish our overall value. * Why I believe that pride is often just the outward manifestation of our own shame. * The characteristics that pride and shame share and how this unconsciously plays out. * How most of us get confidence wrong, and what confidence really is. * Why confidence and humility are the opposite of shame and pride. * How to move from shame and pride into confidence and humility.

Mentioned on the Show:

When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold.
If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here.
Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here.
Follow me on Instagram or Facebook!
*Grab the Podcast Roadmap!*
*Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking* by Jody Moore**
Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!
Brené Brown
Oprah Winfrey
The Life Coach School

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 394, Shame, Pride, Confidence and Humility.

Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast today. I am excited to talk to you about this concept, about shame and pride and confidence and humility. And before we dive into it make sure that you are following or subscribe to the podcast because we are now releasing more than just the Friday episode. I’m releasing bonus episodes that are the Entre Talk episodes that are a little bit more specific to business but you’re going to find I think that a lot of things we talk about there are relevant to any goal in your life.

And those of you who are entrepreneurs make sure you catch those episodes and also listen to these because the general wellness and health and life coaching episodes that I do are absolutely going to be applicable to you. So just more help, more content coming your way here on the podcast.

Okay, I want to talk about these four words today, shame, pride, confidence and humility. And the reason why is because I notice that I feel like a lot of us have had these concepts jumbled and I still do a little bit, to be honest. So as I talk through this, hopefully, it will make sense and I won’t go off on any tangents that are confusing. But I’ve started to think about these words differently than I used to even just in the recent past. And I want to just offer you my theory and you can take it or leave it.

So this is my theory. I used to a lot of times talk about shame and pride as being on opposite ends of a continuum. And I still think to a certain extent that that visual for me is useful. So if shame is the belief that something might be wrong with me and the nagging voice that all of us seem to have at times, that questions our value, questions our worth, wonders what’s wrong with us, wonders why we’re not as good as other people. And pride is sort of the opposite of that.

Pride would be judgment of others, that they’re just not as good, not as smart, not as successful, not as valuable, not as complete as us. We tend to elevate ourselves from pride and lower ourselves from shame. So it makes sense that we would put them sometimes on opposite ends of the continuum. But at other times and what I would offer to you today to consider is what if we’ve been thinking about that wrong? What if shame and pride are actually the same, they’re just different manifestations of the same lie or the same problem?

And that lie is that there is such a thing as a human being who is better than another human being. The lie is that there is a vertical access by which human beings can be ranked. Some can be higher than others and you can do things or be certain things or look a certain way and move yourself up or down on that vertical access. That is the lie of shame and the lie of pride. It is based on a lie I believe.

I believe that every human being is 100% complete the moment they are born and that we are valuable and worthy of love and loved by God and whatever divine source you believe in far beyond our ability to comprehend and we had nothing to do with it and all of us equally so. When I say we had nothing to do with it I mean we didn’t create ourselves, a divine creator did and that is where our value comes from. So we don’t earn our value by achieving or anything else and we can’t diminish our value either by not doing things or even when we harm others we don’t diminish our value.

We create a more negative experience for ourselves and others. We impede our own progress and maybe impede the progress of others but it doesn’t change our overall value. That is just a set thing. So shame is a lie, but it’s a lie that we all believe at times from time to time. At least we all get offered that lie by this part of our brains. I’ve said this a million times but Brené Brown teaches that only sociopaths don’t experience shame.

And I’m wondering, I haven’t done the research. I would love to ask Brené Brown this question but I’m curious as to whether or not it’s true that also all healthy human beings experience thoughts and feelings of pride from time to time, most human beings anyway. Are there just times when you just think I’m just a little bit better at that thing than this other person? And you internalize that as meaning that you may be are a little bit more valuable.

And so the reason I like to think about shame and pride as being the same is because I believe that pride is often just the outward manifestation of our own shame. So this idea that I would need to think or believe that I’m a little bit better than anyone else comes from the fear that I don’t want to be worse or less than. I don’t want to be judged as worse. I don’t want to be rejected. I don’t want to believe and feel the pain that I create for myself when I think that I’m worse. And so sometimes the way that shows up is in a way that we call shame.

So the main way that shame shows up is through hiding. Shame says hide. So hiding can look like literally hiding in our house. It can be a more discrete version of hiding like just not opening up, not sharing, not being real. Sometimes that hiding looks like perfection, striving for perfection I should say. Everything has to be perfect or I can’t put it out there. And a lot of times that hiding I notice is just a shutting down, a closing off, a pretending.

Or if it’s with regards to a goal or something, are not pursuing things, not putting yourself out in the world, not going out and serving and helping and contributing and trying and learning. Because the embarrassment that we offer ourselves when we fall short or when people judge us is intolerable. That is shame and that is pride. What is pride? Let’s just sort of break it down in some not clinical terms, not formal definitions but just in real life what does pride look like?

For me, pride looks like not asking for help. Why would I not ask for help if I need help and I kind of want help, why would I not ask for help? Because I’m ashamed of the fact that I need help. I don’t want someone to know I need help or I’m worried that that person is going to find me needy or inconvenient. That I’m going to bother someone. And I’m going to use their unhappiness to judge myself, I’m going to think that it’s wrong of me to put someone else out. Or I’m going to fear that they’re going to talk bad about me behind my back.

Notice how all of that is insecurity, pride is not allowing yourself your full humanness. Pride is denying that full humanness. Pride is don’t let anyone know that you need help, just hide it, which now that I’m talking about it. It sounds just like shame. Shame says hide. But sometimes the way we hide it is to turn into a not-very-nice version of ourselves. Some people hide it again in a more cowardly literal way. Others hide it by pretending to be very confident, by talking a lot, by having a lot to say, by needing to constantly be heard, by needing to constantly be right, by needing to again be perfect even at times at things.

That is pride and that is shame, it’s all the same. It’s all based in insecurity in the end. Sometimes it manifests as shame, sometimes it manifests as pride. So that is what we want to avoid. We want to avoid thinking that there’s any such thing as any human being that’s any better than anyone else and that your worth and value can be earned. Why do we want to avoid that? It’s a recipe for disaster I promise you. It’s like being on a rollercoaster.

Sometimes it’s going to feel actually very powerful when things go your way, when you do, do a great job or when you get the approval that you’re seeking from other people when you’re winning. Achieving whatever goals you have set for yourself when you’re having a good hair day even then it’s going to feel really good. The problem is then it’s also going to feel terrible when those things don’t go your way. Most likely things are never going to always go your way.

You’re not going to ever be perfect at everything but even when you’re very successful in whatever way you want to succeed you’re going to have failures and shortcomings and bad days and times when things don’t go your way. So that rollercoaster is dangerous to be on and yet tempting to stay on especially because we can feed it. The more we win the more we feed that lie if we make our ‘success’ mean something about our value.

So listen, every human being is valuable and worthy and complete. And none of us did anything to earn it, we simply were created by divine beings. And so our value comes from that, the end, that’s it. And every single one of us will have to do the work in this lifetime to get to an understanding of that. And you’ll get to an understanding of it for a moment and you’ll see it in glimpses and then it will fade away again and you’ll have to go to that work again. You’ll have to constantly do it. Maybe it will get easier.

I feel like there are some people I look up to who seem to understand it more easily or more consistently. So maybe that’s a thing but I don’t think we’ll be done with it in this lifetime.

Now, let’s talk about the opposite of shame and pride. Let’s talk about confidence and humility. Confidence and humility are also the same thing. Confidence and humility are the opposite of shame and pride because what is humility? Let’s just start with that. Humility is understanding that you are amazing and giving the credit to the divine source that created you. I think that’s a part of humility. I also think humility is being willing to admit when you need help and being willing to admit that you’re scared or that you haven’t figured it all out or that you’re not perfect.

Being humble is, hey, I’m terrible at this part, could you help me? Being humble is I totally messed that up, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to, I’m going to try again. Or being humble is I totally messed that up and I even knew what I was doing and I made that wrong choice anyway. And I want to make it right now. I want to apologize. Let’s move forward. That is all humility. Now, in order to be that person who admits when you need help, who asks for help, who apologizes, who can acknowledge their shortcomings.

You have to be very confident because the alternative is that we slip back into shame and pride. If I say, “I messed this up. I’m such a terrible person. What’s the matter with me? I’m never going to get it together. Why do I always do this?” Now we’re back in shame and pride. We are making our mistakes, our shortcomings mean something about our overall value and worth. It doesn’t mean anything about your value and worth. You’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to make mistakes like I made a typo on that thing.

And you’re going to make mistakes like I totally lied and cheated and did a terrible thing. And guess what? Neither one means anything about your value or your worth. It just doesn’t. So humility isn’t I’m a terrible horrible person. I’m never going to get this. What’s the matter with me? I messed up. Humility is confidence. I messed up and that is not who I’m going to continue to be. I’m so sorry. Let’s try to make a right. Side note, I will mess up again. Pride is I messed up and I’m never going to mess up again. Doesn’t it feel like a lie even when you say it?

Confidence and humility is, I messed up and I’m going to try really hard not to mess up in that way again, but the truth is I could. And if I don’t mess up in that way, I will for sure mess up in another way. I’m a human being, now what? That is confidence. Way back when I went through coaching training in 2014, this really stood out to me. And I’ve continued to learn so much from The Life Coach School since then. So some of the things I learned in coach training I don’t remember at all.

But I do remember this, I will never forget this. This has changed my life. When Brooke Castillo taught me that confidence is embracing all of your self-confidences. Not look at me, I’m so good at this. I have all these strengths. And that’s what a lot of people teach. They’re like, “If you want to be more confident you need to focus on your strengths.” And yes, focus on your strengths but also, and this is so important, if you don’t have this then you’re going to actually be working towards pride if all we’re doing is focusing on our strengths.

But focus on your strengths and also embrace and understand and welcome all of your weaknesses. What? That is confidence, embracing all of you. Now, we don’t have very many examples of this unfortunately because it’s an internal thing typically. Most people aren’t out there going, “I’m really good at this and I’m really terrible at this.” Although sometimes, sometimes we get that. Notice when you get that, how real and truthful it feels and how humble it feels.

I talk about Oprah a lot because I’m a huge Oprah fan and I know Oprah’s not perfect but I do just have a lot of good examples of the times I’ve heard Oprah when she demonstrates all of this so well. So I may have told this story before. I don’t know. But I heard Oprah on some talk she was speaking at Harvard, or Stamford, or some ivy league school. And she gave her talk and then they let the students ask questions. Now, remember, these are ivy league students and they knew Oprah was coming so they prepared these questions ahead of time.

And these questions were beyond what I even understood. As the person was asking the question you’re like, “I don’t even know what you’re asking because your words are extremely big words and your concepts are deep and I love it but I don’t understand it.” And this girl asked Oprah a question and I think it had to do with environment or something like that. And at the end of her question, Oprah said, “I don’t know the answer to that question. That’s a really good question but I do not know the answer to that.

You need to ask somebody who is a lot smarter than me in these ways in those areas to get an answer to that question. But thank you for asking it.” Does anybody else have a question? And I was like, “That is confidence. That’s not shame, Oprah’s not beating herself up. Think about what would happen if Oprah wasn’t so confident. Maybe she would have pretended. Maybe she would have just given the best answer she possibly could to try to pretend that she knows what she’s talking about.

Or maybe she would have just shut down altogether and freaked out and ran off the stage, shame or pride. Pride is pretending you know everything and pretending to know the answer because you don’t want those ivy league students to know that you don’t know the answer to that. But confidence is being humble enough to say, “I do not know the answer to that question and it’s a brilliant question.” That is confidence. It is the same as humility.

So if you’re with me, if you see my point here, if you agree with me that the objective and I guess part of the reason I wanted to bring this up is because, at least in my upbringing in the 80s and 90s in the church, I remember hearing a lot of talk in the LDS church about beware of pride. And I still love that message but I internalized that to mean don’t be too confident. And I think a lot of people in the coaching, I deal with a lot of other people especially women internalized to beware of pride to mean don’t be too confident. Don’t be too full of yourself. Don’t think too highly of yourself.

And I don’t think that’s, I don’t know what was meant in that message but I don’t think that’s a useful way to think about it. I think beware of pride is the same thing as saying, “Beware of shame.” Beware of the false belief that some human beings are better than others. Beware of your own brain trying to tell you that you’re a little bit better than some people in some areas. But also beware of your own brain trying to tell you that you’re not as good as people in other areas. Beware of that false premise.

And instead, what we’ve, again what I remember hearing a lot and we still hear a lot is, be humble. Humility is such an amazing valuable noble attribute. but humility isn’t, look at me, I’m such a wreck, I’m so worthless. And I think that’s what some people think humility is. Humility is not that. Humility is hey, I am not good at this at all and I’m going to go do it anyway.

In order to build a business, I was just coaching a little bit today, some entrepreneurs who were like, “I’m afraid to put content out there. What if it’s not good? What if people don’t like it?” Humility is, hey, guess what? I’m brand new and I don’t know what I’m doing but I want to get experience and I want to take care of you and I will figure it out, you want to come with me? You want to work with me at a really awesome cheap, if not free rate? Because I need experience and I’m learning and I’m growing.” That’s humility.

Humility is being confident about the fact that you don’t know that you’re not good at it. That you haven’t achieved what you hope to achieve one day. Humility is just being real. When we get real we can only truly get real from a place of confidence because if we’re going to beat ourselves up and be embarrassed about it and think that it’s wrong and worry about what people are going to think, we’re going to be right back in shame. And we’re never going to be as real from shame or pride as we can be from confidence.

And I’ll just tell you, I was coaching today in one of the little coaching samples that I do which by the way you should come try a coaching sample. Come see what coaching is like. Come see if it’s for you at jodymoore.com/intensive. But we were doing some coaching today in Get Your Goal and the woman said to me, one of the first things she said to me was, “I’m insecure.” And then she went on to tell me about how that creates challenges in her life.” And I said to her, “Do you know that you’re not insecure right now anyway, you’re not insecure.

You just came on a Zoom call with me and a bunch of other people you don’t know. You don’t even know how many people are here. And you admitted outright that you have weaknesses.” Just saying, “I’m insecure”, this is the ironic part, just saying out loud in front of other people that might judge you, I’m insecure is the opposite of insecurity, that’s confidence, that’s humility. It takes confidence to raise your hand, volunteer to come on the call and then say that out loud. Somebody who is insecure doesn’t do that.

Somebody who’s insecure hides it either just doesn’t raise their hand and come on the call. Or comes on the call and acts really arrogant and confident and cocky but in a way that we can feel is not true, or at least a way that they know is not true. They come on and lie. I think pride looks like lying, shame looks like hiding. So I said to her, “You’re not insecure, at least right now you’re not. You’re confident.” And if you want to add to that, hey, I get nervous sometimes and sometimes I don’t know what to say and sometimes I’m awkward and sometimes I worry about what other people are thinking.

And then add on, and that’s okay, I’m a human being, we all do this from time to time. Then you’re going to feel even more confident but I would definitely stop calling yourself insecure because that’s not what I see at all. I see humility and confidence. Let’s go. And from humility and confidence you are capable of extraordinary changes in your life and in just your day-to-day experience even. I don’t even care if you set goals. I mean if you want to set goals I’ll help you but if you don’t want to that’s fine. That’s not what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about you enjoying being with yourself and you being able to connect in your relationships more because you allow yourself to be more real. Notice that somebody who’s guarded and hiding when they do finally get real, there’s tons of shame behind it. When they finally let down their guard it’s, “Oh my gosh, you’re right, I’m terrible, I’m horrible, why do I do this?” So pride and shame. They are the same. Confidence and humility. They are the same.

And if you want to nurture confidence and humility in your life my favorite way to do it, what has made me more confident than anything is to be willing to be terrible at things. To choose to try things and be terrible at them and manage my brain through them, practice not judging myself, practice not making my shortcomings mean anything about my overall worth as a person.

So, for example, a while ago I took up the piano, I took a little bit of piano lessons as a kid but I didn’t learn too much so I decided a wanted to play the piano. And I told myself, you’re going to be terrible at it and that’s okay. Let’s be willing to not be good at it. I’m still not very good at it but I love to sit down and try to play the piano because I love to manage my brain through it. First of all my brain wants to go, it’s too hard and there’s all of that that I benefit from managing that, but also just not judging myself for being not good at it.

My business has been a great way for me to do that too. And even now that I have some success in my business I still have to learn things and try things and add things that I’m not good at. And when my brain’s like, oh, no, we can’t do that, we’re not any good at that. I just go, “Okay, let’s be willing to be not good at it.” And I get my own back. I’m like, “And I love you anyway Jody Moore, and I’m going to be so proud of you for trying and for putting in the effort.”

That’s all I ask of you right now, just put in the effort and let’s just try and let’s just see and maybe we could get good at it but you’re not going to be more valuable then, just like you’re not less valuable now. I have practiced understanding that and I talk to myself in that way so much that I am very confident. I’m very confident which makes me very humble. Now, I’m not perfect at any of this of course either. But overall it’s gotten so much easier and it brings me so much peace in my life. I don’t feel like I’m on a rollercoaster anymore.

I’ll tell you this. I had this realization when I was a trainer in corporate. I used to be a trainer, I trained salespeople. And I did some leadership coaching at the same time. And at any rate, we did this training day where we would bring in staff from all over the Southern California area, these were salespeople. We would spend a day with them teaching, and I say we because I had a team of trainers. But we would teach classes and we would have discussions and we would just try to help them improve at their job performance.

And everybody loved that training day. They all looked forward to it, it’s kind of a nice break from your regular job and they liked seeing each other. And we always had a really good time and had food and stuff. And so at the end of the day, we would pass out a survey and ask for some feedback from them. And I loved reading those surveys because they were very complimentary. They would talk about how mind-blowing the things were and how inspiring it was and how recharged they feel.

Occasionally there were a couple of complaints usually about whatever we search for lunch but for the most part, they were really positive. And I always couldn’t wait to collect those surveys and take them home and read through them all because I used them to feel good about myself. I had this false belief that if people liked the training I put on that must mean I’m a good person. And then I felt really good about myself. And one day I recognized that there’s nothing wrong with enjoying a compliment, I still do by the way.

People always say to me, “I know you don’t need to hear it.” But I’m like, “No, I still like hearing it, don’t get me wrong.” But it’s true, I don’t need it because I have worked on what I’m teaching you here. I have worked on reframing my brain. I have worked on understanding that just because maybe I’m really good at putting on a training day at that company doesn’t make me more valuable. I already was that amazing. I don’t tell myself, “Settle down, you’re not that great.” I tell myself, “You were that great before you knew how to put on training day.

You were that amazing and you’re actually far more amazing than you even know. You’re way more amazing than you think you are after reading these surveys. And you have so many shortcomings and weaknesses and things you don’t know how to do and none of that changes your amazingness. You’re still just as valuable.”

One other experience I want to share. I had an instance where I was teaching a class online for another company. It wasn’t in my company, it was another company that I was teaching a class for. And somebody asked a question about one of the other teachers there at the company, one of the other instructors. And the reason they asked it is because what I was teaching was sort of different than what they’d seen that other instructor, do. So they are saying, “Okay, you’re teaching us this but this other person who is part of your company who’s a teacher here does it differently. So help me understand.”

And the way I answered that question as I was answering it, as it was coming out of my mouth I had this thought, I don’t know if I should be saying this but it was too fast for me to think. So what I said was, “Well, I think that other instructor, would agree that things aren’t going as well as she would like in her situation, but this and this and that.” And then I went on to give some kind of explanation. But as I was saying it I kind of knew I probably shouldn’t be saying this but I didn’t know how else to answer it.

And then the next day someone from the company reached out to me and said, “You know what? Can we please not talk negatively about other instructors?” Sounds so obvious when you say it that way, “On the calls and on the classes you’re teaching and also we’re going to edit that part out.” And I went into a major shame attack. I felt so terrible.

I was so embarrassed. I was like, “What is the matter with me? Of course, we shouldn’t be talking badly about each other. I know that, why would I do that? What if that person is mad at me? What if I get fired from this company that I respect?” I just went down this spiral of shame. And then I took the tools that I know as a coach after I let myself process the shame and I applied them. And I told myself, you know what, Jody Moore, it’s true, you messed up. That’s not appropriate, please don’t do that again. But also you’re just as amazing as if you had never said that thing.

And maybe people will be mad at you and maybe you will get fired and all of those things, consequences are still real. And you’re just as amazing even if all of that happens. So because I’ve practiced doing that enough times, you can practice it in pride. Situations are tempting to go to pride, everyone gives you amazing feedback. You can practice it in situations where you go to shame. It doesn’t mean you resist the emotions, you’ve got to process and allow them but then you take a look at what’s really true.

Then you retrain your brain to understand the truth about human worth. And to circle back, I had this realization the other day because my husband went to our PO box. We have a PO box for our business. And we don’t go there that often, maybe once every couple of months. So he went there the other day and he collected the mail that was there and there were a bunch of really lovely, nice cards and letters and little gifts and things that people had sent me, little thank you’s. Thank you for what you taught me. This moment changed my life.

I wanted to share this thing with you that I created after listening to you, tons of sweet awesome notes and thank you’s, and tokens. And I noticed as I was reading through them that I did not feel at all like I used to feel when I worked in corporate. I didn’t feel like I was at the top of the rollercoaster, like this is amazing. I’m going to save all this. I’m going to read it 10 times. I can’t wait to cling to every word. I still appreciate it. I still like it, don’t get me wrong. I think it’s super thoughtful.

What I think more than anything now naturally which took me a lot of practice to get here by the way, what I think is like wow, that’s so impressive that this woman took the time to write this card and send it to me or to put this thing together and put it in the mail. What a thoughtful kind lovely person. And I’m appreciative of it and I like hearing it, don’t get me wrong. But it doesn’t feel like a rollercoaster anymore because I already understand that I’m amazing whether other people see it or not.

And if that person appreciates me that says a lot about them. That doesn’t say anything about me. So shame and pride are the same. Confidence and humility are the same. I would love to hear your thoughts on this because this is a new concept. I’ve never taught it in this way before. Maybe I’m not making sense. Maybe I’m overlooking something really important, if so, please I want to hear it.

I think the best way for me to get your input is if you go to Instagram and DM me. I’m Jody Moore Coaching on Instagram. You can DM me. Or you can put comments in any of the posts because we do read and pay attention to all of that. But I’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. Thanks for joining me. I’ll see you next time, take care.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

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The post 394. Shame, Pride, Confidence, and Humility appeared first on Jody Moore.

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The question of raising kids while growing a business is something I coach on a lot. My clients come to me worried they’ll end up neglecting their family, wondering how to create time, and whether they can really do both.

So, can you build a business and be a parent? Of course you can. I started mine with young kids, and I’m still in the thick of raising them. I’m not here to sell you on a lie that you can absolutely do it all and that you won’t miss out on anything, because you will. Like anything else in life, we have to make sacrifices for what we ultimately want, and you get to feel good about those choices.

Join me today to hear my experience of deciding to grow my business and raise kids, and why I feel great about it. I’m sharing my insights on all your concerns about doing both, why you can’t expect perfection of yourself, and how to set parameters around your business and parenting that feel fulfilling and aligned to you.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why I feel really good about my decision to grow my business and be a mom. * How we’re constantly making sacrifices in the name of what we want, no matter if you run a business or not. * My thoughts on your worries about neglecting your family. * Why you can’t expect perfection of yourself. * How to set parameters around your business. * Why I believe entrepreneurship has made me a better mother.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Raising Kids While Growing a Business

Hey there everybody welcome to an entrepreneurial episode. I am publishing episodes on Mondays. This is new so make sure you’re subscribed because it’s hard to keep track of everything going on in the podcast. I want to recommend for all my entrepreneur business owners, coaches, whatever kind of entrepreneur you might be that you listen to these Monday episodes but also listen to the Friday ones because it all goes hand in hand.

I would say 80% of your success in growing your business is going to be dependent on whether or not you’re developing yourself personally and strengthening yourself mentally and emotionally. And at the very least coaching yourself through all the things that building a business will bring up. But these Monday episodes are going to be really specific to building a business. So if you’re not interested in that you don’t have to listen to these ones. I’ll still be doing the regular Friday life coaching episodes.

So I want to talk today about being a mom or dad, being a parent and raising kids while you grow your business. This seems to be something that I end up coaching on a lot. People say to me, “I’m worried that if I start a business or if I go focus on my business and work on growing my business then I’m going to neglect my kids and my family, I won’t be a good mom. Can you really do both?”

Or people say, “I don’t understand how I could possibly have the time or how could I implement the time management strategies that I’ve learned. Because none of them seems to take into account the fact that if you’ve got a bunch of kids there’s a lot of unpredictability popping up in your life.” So I get questions like this all the time. And I want to tell you that I’m not trying to convince you that you should start or grow a business. That is a personal decision. It may not be right for you. It may be right for you to focus primarily on raising your kids, that may be right.

But I think for a lot of you it is simply the part of your brain that is afraid, the part of your brain that doesn’t want to try new things because new things are scary and we don’t know how to do them and they take a lot of energy and a lot of trial and error and that’s not fun or easy. And so you’ll have to be the one to decide. I simply want to talk to you about why I feel really good about being a business owner and a mom and why I made the decision to do that in the first place.

Because I have been doing this for nine years now but when I started I was in a different point. And so I just want to explain to you my thoughts, again not to say these are the ‘right thoughts’. They are simply my thoughts. And if they resonate for you and they are right for you I think you will know that. I think you will feel that.

So I started my business when I had three kids, my youngest was six months old. So what would that make my other ones be? That would make my daughter about six/six and a half, and my son seven and a half or so, maybe eight. Those were my kids’ ages when I started my business. And then a few years into my business, a couple of years into my business I had another child, my fourth child. So I was really in the thick of little kids and I still am in the thick of raising kids.

That’s how I remember how long I’ve had a business, is by what age my son is who was only six months old when I started. He is now nine and a half. And then I have a seven-year-old daughter and then my other kids are 15 and 16 in high school. So can you build a business and be a mom? Of course, you can. Can you do both successfully? Will your business suffer with all the things your family needs or will your family or children suffer with all the things that your business needs? The answer is yes and no, of course, the answer is that’s up to you.

So here’s what I want to say. I am not here to tell you, you can do it all and you’ll never miss out on anything. You will have to make decisions at times. I have always since the beginning and still, today have to make decisions. Sometimes I have to decide, am I going to go to this function of my children or participate in this thing with my family or do this thing that I committed to do in my business? Sometimes I have to make those choices and I have to say no to something in some cases. Something has to be sacrificed.

And sometimes the business takes a sacrifice, sometimes my time with my family takes a sacrifice, that is the reality. Now, what I will say is in my experience those situations don’t come up very often. It’s not very common that I have to even make that choice. Maybe that’s not true for everybody, maybe it depends on the demands of your business. But when I worked for somebody else I had to make those choices a lot more frequently because somebody else told me when I needed to be at work, when I needed to travel. And my ability to ask for exceptions was somewhat limited.

I only had so many favors I felt I could cash in on before I was going to start to be seen as not a good employee. Whereas now I’m the owner of my business. I can choose when I’m going to work, how often I’m going to work if and when I’m going to travel. And I can build my business around my lifestyle and my family. So I just want to point out that for the majority of the people in the world holding a job is not a luxury, it is necessary in order to support your family.

And so we are constantly making sacrifices with either our job, business or family in the name of creating what we want and generating the revenue and income that we need to support our lifestyles. So us being able to even ask this question I just want to pause and point out means that we are living in a very privileged situation to be able to go, “Should I work”, even if we just say work, if we don’t even call it starting a business, should I work or should I just be with my kids, what would be best, means that you have enough privilege in your life that you have the option to work or not.

Most people don’t have that privilege. And again the only reason I point that out is I’m always trying to stay in a place of gratitude and abundance. We all have opportunities where we can do that. For those of you who have the benefit of being able to ask yourself this question, that is one area where you can feel very grateful and abundant about the situation you’re in, in your life. Now, even for everybody who has the luxury of just choosing whether or not they’re going to make money you still are constantly making decisions about how you’re going to spend your time.

And my guess is there are still times when you decide that your kids or your family or some other obligations that you have in that realm are going to have to wait or sacrifice in the name of something else you’re doing in your life. If it’s not working on your business it might be the yoga class that you signed up for. It might be the girls’ trip that you decide to go on. It might be volunteering in some kind of capacity that you choose to do in your life. It might be going to work at the school even, volunteering at the school.

Maybe you’re with one kid but you’re not with another and some part of you is sacrificing. So let’s just be clear, that we all constantly have to make decisions about is this a time when I’m going to focus on my kids or my family, am I going to focus on something else? I’m pretty sure, or you would go crazy, you can’t just simply be sitting by your kids’ side constantly wondering, what do you need next, honey, anything else I can get you? Are you unhappy? Do you need me? That’s not, first of all, even, useful for our children. But second of all, it’s not useful for us. It’s not reality.

We are constantly choosing where am I going to spend my time. Maybe it’s your church calling. Maybe you spend time at your church calling and your kids or your family in some way get less of your attention, less of your resources if you will because you choose to do that. That doesn’t mean you’re not doing a good job. I honestly think that our families, as families I should say, we should all be sacrificing for one another for the things that matter to each other, things that people care about, things that they feel are necessary.

Sometimes we’re sacrificing because somebody has a need that needs to be met. Sometimes it’s just an interest or a desire. We’re all meant to sacrifice and yes support and help and nurture and guide and take care of one another. But sacrifice even for something that you just care about or are interested in is a useful part of your family dynamic. That’s what I have to say about that.

The next thing I want to say is that when people ask me this question, will I be able to grow and focus on my business the way it needs and be there for my family? And as we dig into it a little bit it’s really common for people to tell me, “I’m just worried actually that what’s going to happen is I’m going to be so wrapped up in my business. I’m going to be thinking about it all the time. I’m going to be obsessed about it. I’m going to be excited about it. I’m going to want to work on it all the time. And I’m going to neglect my children more than is even necessary for my business just because I’m going to want to.

I’m going to get swept away and carried away because I love this and I’m so excited about this. Can you relate to that? Are you worried that you will just get carried away and not stop working when it’s time to stop working and not be present because of where your head will be? So a couple of things I want to say if that’s you because I can relate to this, it’s very tempting. It’s Friday night, I’m sitting in my office at 5:20 recording this podcast which is unusual for me. I usually stop working between three and four when my kids get home from school.

But today I sort of just indulged in catching up with some family and some friends and a bunch of things that I don’t feel bad about but it means that I’m working Friday night which I don’t normally do. But my point is that you don’t just get carried away and neglect your family, it’s a choice that you make. I made the choice to come in my office right now and record this podcast episode.

So when we are worried about something like that in the future, I’m worried that I’ll just – we do this with all kinds of things. I’m worried that I’ll overread. I’m worried that I’ll quit exercising, I’m worried that I’ll whatever as though it wouldn’t be a choice. It is always a choice. And I do recommend that you give yourself some parameters. And you don’t expect perfection, at least I can’t. If I expect perfection of myself I just sabotage myself every time. So I have parameters. I have working hours. I have days and times that I work.

And when it’s time to work I work except for today. Remember, I said you can’t be perfect. You probably won’t be perfect. I’m not perfect at it, I am probably 85/90% of the time though. I follow it really closely anyway. If it’s time to work I get dressed in nice clothes because a lot of times I have to be on video or web camera or something so I like to look nice for my clients. But I also just like to dress nice because there’s something about it that puts my head in the space of I’m working right now.

I went to the dermatologist yesterday, it was the middle of my workday and so she says to me, “Are you going to be going back to work after this?” And I said, “Yeah, I work from home but yes, I’ll be going home and I have more work to do.” And she’s like, “You look so nice for working from home.” And I said, “Yeah, I like to dress nice. Especially when I’m working I dress up a little bit more, it just keeps my head in the right spot. And I like to show up for my clients even on Zoom.”

And she’s like, “But you even have nice shoes on.” I’m like, “Yeah.” Because I’m not pretending for my clients. I’m not like here I have a nice shirt and sweatpants on, I’m pretending. No, I’m genuinely showing up. And partly what that does is keep me focused on work. When my brain wants to go, we should just get the dishes done really fast. We should run that errand while the kids are at school. No, it’s work time, I am working mostly. Remember, the beauty about being an entrepreneur is that you don’t have to be perfect at it. You can make an exception.

Occasionally there’s something that comes up at my kids’ school or something and I can say to myself, “Good news, I will just rearrange my work schedule and I won’t work at that time. And I will figure out when to fit the work in instead.” And I don’t even have to send in a vacation day. But when it’s time to work I work.

One of my team members, Melissa, who’s also one of my best friends who I’ve known for 25 years. When she first started working with me she helped me manage my calendar and everything. And she said, “You know what’s so fascinating, Jody, that I don’t think people realize is that you work a pretty much full-time job.” Slightly less than full-time, maybe 30 hours a week. And she knew my calendar. she helped me manage it and so she knew what I was doing.

And she was like, “You are working, I think people think because you have your own business and it’s at home that you’re just leisurely fitting in a podcast here and there when necessary but you’re not. You’re working.” And by the way, you don’t have to work full-time. When I first started this and my kids were younger and I had kids that weren’t in school yet I worked part-time. I worked three days a week but I still when it was time to work, when it was work hours I worked.

And what that does is help you get things done so that when work is over you don’t have to be on your phone, on your computer trying to catch up on things. I know it sounds basic but it’s everything. Now, as far as your brain wanting to run away and you getting carried away and just wanting to work that is a matter of using your self-discipline to shut it down when it’s time to shut it down. I personally don’t tell myself I need to shut down the ideas in my head.

I think ideas come to me sometimes when I’m with my family. When I’m just being with them when doing something not work related at all is sometimes when I get my best ideas. Just have a process. I like to open up the notes app on my phone, capture ideas in there or keep a notebook with me and write them down. There’s nothing wrong with that. Ideas don’t care at all about your work schedule in fact they come most often when I’m not working.

So just have a place to capture ideas and come back to them. When it is time to work, you come back to those ideas if you want to. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your head running away. I know some people tell me they feel guilty because they’re playing Uno with their kids but they’re thinking about their business and I say to them, “Why do you feel guilty about that? Do you know how much brain power it takes for you to play Uno? Not that much, it’s pretty easy for you to play Uno. It’s a game of mostly luck and it doesn’t require that much.”

So it makes sense to me that your head wants to think about something a little bit more challenging. It doesn’t mean that you’re not capable of listening to your kids and connecting with them but the truth is your brain is capable of a higher level of problem-solving than some of your young Uno-playing kids. So of course your brain’s going to want to think about your business. I think that’s a beautiful thing. Why are we mad about that?

You can also make the choice to focus on your kids when necessary. Again, one of the reasons I’m recording this podcast late is because my 15-year-old daughter came home from school and she has her driver’s permit, and she needs to get practice driving and she’s nervous about it. And she said, “Mom, would you take me out driving today?” And it was the time when I was going to record this podcast so that it would have been done on time but I said, “Sure, let’s do it.”

So we went on a drive through the country roads and then I said, “Let’s drive to the grocery store.” And she was nervous. I said, “You can do it, honey.” So we drove all the way to the grocery store, I got a few groceries. She drove all the way home. It’s a beautiful thing. I can do that because I have my own business because somebody isn’t telling me you’ve got to work until four o’clock, you’re not off till four. I can say, “You know what, let’s go driving.” And now the kids are all in the basement playing a videogame and they couldn’t care less that I’m in my office working.

So again you have to make decisions and there is to me a difference between I’m just not being disciplined so I’m hanging out on my computer a lot longer than necessary and I am going to work late tonight because I took time off earlier to go on a drive with my daughter. This is a difference. And there’s also a difference between I had a day where I blew off my work a little bit versus I do that most of the time. So just be on to yourself.

I’ll tell you what, I think that being an entrepreneur has made me a better mother. And again I’m not saying that’s going to be true for everyone and I’m not trying to sell you on starting a business. I am just trying to sell you on making that decision consciously. Being an entrepreneur has taught me so many things, well, and being a coach as well, I’ve learned how to manage my own emotions and everything. And that made me a better mother first and foremost.

But being an entrepreneur has just opened my eyes to the possibilities in the world. It’s opened my eyes to there’s not one right path for anybody. And I have learned so many things that could be useful to my kids one day, maybe not, maybe they’ll want nothing to do with entrepreneurship. But they see my husband and I make decisions together. They see the good that we’re doing in the world and ultimately we’re in charge. We get to make the decisions about what we’re going to do with this business, are we going to grow? Are we going to hire more people?

Are we going to move somewhere else? All of the freedom and flexibility make it so that I can build my business around what I want and need to be able to do for my family. So will there be some sacrifices? Yeah, there will, welcome to life. Is it the right thing for you to do? I don’t know. Are you going to get carried away with just working all the time and thinking about it all the time? That’s optional. And if you want help with that come let me coach you on that.

If you’re in Business Minded we can coach on that for sure and help you get it under control because it’s not necessary, I promise you. I can do this, just about anybody can do this, I am confident saying that. Alright, thanks for joining me today you guys. I’ll be back next Monday with more Entre-Talk. I’ll see you then, take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: Raising Kids While Growing a Business appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Faith Matters is an organization that has touched my life in the last few years. It aims to create a space in which an expansive, radiant approach to the restored Gospel can be considered and discussed, which I love, and my guests this week are on the executive board of Faith Matters and are the hosts of the Faith Matters Podcast.

Tim and Aubrey Chavez have been instrumental in my own understanding of the Gospel and my connection to my Savior Jesus Christ and God. They are thought-provoking speakers who’ve had challenges on their faith journey, and they have a beautiful and fascinating story about finding peace in uncertainty to share with you on today’s episode.

Tune in this week to discover the lessons that are available when we delve deep into our faith, even the parts we don’t necessarily agree with. Tim and Aubrey are sharing their journey through questioning their faith, building acceptance, and finding peace even though they don’t have all the answers.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* What led Tim and Aubrey to working with Faith Matters. * How the Gospel has always been a central part of Tim and Aubrey’s lives. * The mental spiral Tim was in going through when he went on his mission, and his experience of that time. * Why conditions like obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) often fly under the radar, and how to understand the real challenges people with OCD face. * Aubrey’s experience of understanding Tim’s OCD while navigating her own questions about her faith. * How Tim and Aubrey are finding peace in uncertainty every day of their lives.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Faith Matters: Website | Podcast * Tim and Aubrey Chavez * Stages of Faith by James W. Fowler * Faith After Doubt by Brian McLaren * Jared Halverson * Thomas McConkie * Terryl Givens * Michael Wilcox * Natalie Clay

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 393, Finding Peace in Uncertainty with Tim and Aubrey Chavez.

Het, everybody, welcome to what is a very special episode of this podcast. I am so excited to share this conversation with you. I just recorded it a couple of days ago. I’ve wanted to do this for so long and it just took a while for us to get our schedules to line up and make everything work. But if you’re not familiar with Faith Matters, Faith Matters is an organization that has touched my life for good in the last few years.

I want to share with you what their mission statement is because there are a lot of different organizations out there that either seems to be affiliated with the church or maybe seem to be against the church and it’s a little tough to navigate. Is this a group of people that’s in the church, out of the church, pro-Christianity, anti-Christianity? It seems like it would be easier to figure out than it is. And I just want to read for you the mission statement of Faith Matters.

And I will preface by saying Faith Matters is who I published my book with and my testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ has grown so much through the organization and through the people that I’ve met there. It says Faith Matters, ‘our goal is to provide a powerful and widely engaging platform for exploring ideas, practices, and initiatives that provide deeper engagement with our faith and our world. All who are involved with Faith Matters share a deep commitment to the restored gospel tradition, and a profound desire to see it thrive and remain vital and relevant to rising generations.

In 1863, Brigham Young voiced a theme repeated often in the early Church, “Our religion embraces all truth, wherever found, in all the works of God and man.” Four decades later, Elder B.H. Roberts, an LDS General Authority and official Church Historian, issued this provocative challenge to church members. “I believe ‘Mormonism’ affords opportunity for thoughtful disciples who will not be content with merely repeating some of its truths but will develop its truths. The Prophet planted the germ truths of the great dispensation of the fullness of times.

The disciples of Mormonism, growing discontented with the necessarily primitive methods which have hitherto prevailed in sustaining the doctrine, will yet take profounder and broader views of the great doctrines committed to the church; and, departing from mere repetition, will cast them in new formulas until they help to give to the truths received a more forceful expression, and carry it beyond the earlier and cruder stages of its development.”

We believe that we, as a people, have fallen well short of that challenge in the century-plus since Elder Roberts issued it. We believe the restored gospel has an important and prophetic role to play in the world. We believe it’s time, as Terryl Givens has suggested, to foster a new vocabulary for a dispensation in which all things are made new.

So that is the mission statement of Faith Matters. And the only reason I share that is because my guests today, Tim and Aubrey Chavez are on the executive board at Faith Matters and they are probably most well-known as the hosts of the Faith Matters podcast. And if you are not subscribed in listening to Faith Matters podcast I highly recommend it. They do such an incredible job of just getting me to think about topics that again deepen my understanding of the gospel and my connection to my savior Jesus Christ and to God and they do it in a thought-provoking way.

And Tim and Aubrey as the hosts of that podcast, I often find myself wanting to know more about them. You can tell by the little comments they make that they have an interesting story. And so I asked them if they would let me interview them and sure enough, we discovered they have a beautiful and fascinating story that is inspiring and I can’t wait to share it with you today. So here is my conversation with Tim and Aubrey.

Jody: Notice I didn’t even tell you guys what we’re going to be talking about today.

Tim: That’s great.

Aubrey: That’s true.

Tim: Ready for anything.

Jody: Okay, good, I’m glad to hear.

Tim: Aubrey’s been doing Be Bold and just diving into the model.

Aubrey: I have, Jody, I started.

Tim: And it’s so much of everyday life.

Aubrey: I started in, I think it was November. And I have just loved it so much. I decided I just wanted to hear more coaching. I just needed to hear so much coaching and it’s been as amazing as I expected. And it’s like my meditation at church. I just do models all the way through to our church and it’s so great, anything that comes up.

Jody: With what the speakers say?

Aubrey: Sometimes. It’s great, it’s a great context because stuff is kind of constantly coming up. And I just have my notebook, it’s been the most productive few months. I feel like it’s been therapeutic.

Jody: It’s positivity but it also shifts the way you’re viewing the world a little bit. A little bit, right?

Aubrey: Totally.

Jody: In an empowering way, as long as you can avoid going to, sometimes we go to judging others or judging ourselves so you’ve got to watch out for that. There’s nothing wrong with us having a bunch of crazy thoughts but just knowing that they are just thoughts is the key.

Aubrey: Totally. And I feel what I needed it for is just that I think so often I’m having feelings, I’m having big, huge feelings and I think I know why. And this has just been the best way I’ve found to really figure out what’s going on, what’s actually going on. Because I think a lot of times I’m problem-solving the wrong problem.

Jody: Aren’t we all? Yes, it’s great awareness.

Aubrey: Oh my gosh, it’s been so great, I just love it. I love it so much.

Jody: I’m so happy that you do that.

Aubrey: I try not to be annoying. Every time I get together with my family I’m like, “Just don’t talk about it. Just give them a half hour and don’t talk about it.”

Jody: It does feel that way.

Aubrey: It comes up all the time, yeah. It’s fun and is fun.

Jody: Yeah. It’ll catch on eventually, don’t worry. I was that way too. Now, my whole family, they’re all trained life coaches.

Aubrey: Really?

Tim: That’s awesome.

Aubrey: No problem.

Tim: Very cool.

Jody: Okay, well I am so appreciative of both of you for coming on and I know your time is valuable. Let’s get down to business. I’ll tell you, the reason I wanted to have you on the show is because I love the Faith Matters podcast so much.

Tim: Thank you.

Jody: You two are amazing. I don’t know if people realize how challenging interviewing well actually is.

Tim: Yeah, I assume you’re not talking about us but I agree that it’s very challenging.

Jody: No, I’m saying that you guys are so good at it and it’s something that when you hear people do it you take it for granted, just like what, you’re just asking questions. But it’s actually really challenging, tell us why?

Aubrey: Well, really I feel this is something, we’re still in school for this. Just every interview we’re learning something new that we can do better. But I will just say, yeah, that really took me by surprise. I thought I was in general just kind of I could do conversation. But there’s something that happens when you turn on the microphone. I think it’s mostly, I think anxiety kind of creeps in and you worry, what if they stop speaking when you think they’re going to keep speaking and what if I don’t have anything to say?

And so it took the first year to just settle down and really be able to be present in a conversation. That’s been the hardest thing for me, just to actually listen because if you’re really listening then the conversation does flow. But when you’re thinking about how you sound or what you’re going to say then you sound a little manic which is exactly what happened. So I’m so sorry for anyone who goes back to the beginning of the podcast.

Jody: Don’t listen, I’m just kidding.

Aubrey: I hate when people say they’re going back and listening to old ones. I’m like, “Oh, you don’t have to do that.”

Jody: I know, you’re like, “Don’t listen to those.”

Tim: Well, the funny part is we’ve been experimenting with this new editing tool and it can automatically select your ums, and likes, and remove them. And last time we searched for our likes and there were literally 500 likes in a single episode. It was just so embarrassingly.

Aubrey: It’s hard to see a real metric.

Tim: I’m definitely learning from Aubrey on this. The key I think really like she said is listening. And I have so much trouble doing that. I’m always just trying to think a step ahead just to make sure there’s not dead air. But Aubrey is so interested in what the person is saying that she is truly absorbing it and responding in her absolute most authentic way. So I think that’s why she’s so good at it.

Aubrey: That’s nice.

Jody: That’s beautiful, yeah. I mean you have to be doing a little bit of both of course but I can tell also that you both put in so much preparation and time and you study, you read or whatever. So you come to the table prepared with how to pull the gold out of your guest.

Aubrey: That’s so kind.

Jody: And I listen to it faithfully. And what always comes up for me almost I should say just about every episode because you two are both great at not inserting yourself into the middle. You always keep it about the expert or the guest that you have on. And you’ll drop little nuggets like, well, at one point I had this but let me ask you this question. And I’m always like, “Wait, wait, wait, I want to hear about that.”

And because I just appreciate and feel like I know you, I mean I’ve had the privilege of working with you a little bit as well but even just as a podcast listener we feel like we know you. And I feel like we want to know you as people as well.

Aubrey: Well, that’s so fun. That’s so fun.

Jody: Tell us your darkest secrets.

Tim: Okay. Where do we start?

Jody: No. Let’s just begin with basic intro, who are you and what led you both to working with Faith Matters?

Aubrey: Okay, that’s a great place to start. Well, Tim and I sort of grew up together. We met in the first day of seventh grade. So we have a lot of shared history even before we were married and that’s really been a gift because we have the same friends and we went through high school together. And did a lot of milestones together. And we both grew up in really healthy happy families that were very committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I would say that was pretty central to both of our families.

And I mean I’ll let Tim speak for himself but I feel I grew up in, I had that village experience. I was raised by my neighbors too and it was such a good experience. They brought so many of their gifts and gave them so freely to help me be a good person. I feel I had so many adults in my life who cared how I turned out.

And looking back I feel so grateful for that experience of growing up in the church and in a tight-knit community in a neighborhood where people really cared about me at every stage of my life. Now that we have kids really I appreciate that even more. That’s not very common and it really had an effect on who I’ve become.

Tim: Yeah. And for me, it’s similar but maybe a little bit different. I’ve always struggled a little bit more in geographic community as compared to Aubrey. She definitely connects with neighbors and that’s always been a big part of her experience I think and for me, I’m a little bit more introverted. I kind of keep to myself a little bit more. But in high school, like Aubrey said, we had the same group of friends and that group of friends I connected really, really deeply with. And they were like us in a lot of ways. I wouldn’t say diversity was our strong point.

But we had a lot of other strong points which was, for instance, we were all very committed to the gospel and it was a really central part of our lives. And so where some kids have the experience of my friends are pointing me in one direction but in my heart of hearts, my parents, they want me to be in this direction. We were supporting each other in the direction that our parents all want us to be in, very, very strong seminary attending, going to the temple for baptisms all the time. It was a given that we were all going to go on missions, the boys at least. And we all got there.

We supported each other through those years and it was a beautiful – the way I think of it now is sort of a beautiful first half of life experience.

Jody: Nice. And did you both attend BYU?

Aubrey: I went to Utah State.

Jody: That’s right, fellow, Aubrey, okay, you went to BYU. Did you guys fall in love in seventh grade or when did that happen?

Tim: It took us a little bit longer.

Jody: It took a little longer.

Tim: I wasn’t fall in lovable with in seventh grade.

Jody: You weren’t as lovable.

Aubrey: I was, I had awesome bangs and glasses and braces and so I’m not sure.

Jody: You were rocking it.

Aubrey: Right, yeah.

Tim: No, but we dated a little bit in high school. And there were definitely some mutual feelings going on there but at the same time, we took all of the rules very seriously. And so things did not ever get super serious because okay, Tim’s got to go on his mission. He can’t be distracted, which is certainly true. So we went to different colleges, dated other people a little bit but when I got back Aubrey happened to be home for a semester. She had just done a study abroad and was sort of taking a break.

And so of our big group, we were actually the only two people there where we had grown up in high school. And so we started dating and got married actually really quickly, six months after I got home.

Jody: Awesome, alright, so then how do we end up at Faith Matters?

Tim: Well, there’s a lot that goes into it. I mean my mission is sort of, I think a catalyst for everything that’s happened faith-wise in my life. I actually had a very, very difficult time on a mission internally. And externally it went great in terms of relationships with companions and my mission president, being called into leadership positions. I think I was actually without trying to sound arrogant here I was seen as sort of the example missionary. Internally I was in absolute turmoil due to OCD and scrupulosity that I was dealing with.

I was in a really, really unhealthy place and this is mid-2000s-type time period, far before I think it was common to talk about OCD and scrupulosity definitely was not a word really on anybody’s radar at that point.

Jody: Tell people what scrupulosity is, would you?

Tim: Yeah. Scrupulosity is a subset really of OCD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in which you become obsessed literally with following the rules. And OCD tends to sort of attack whatever is most important to you. And as a missionary and I think this is probably still true in a lot of missions, obedience and worthiness are emphasized beyond really anything else and it was for me. And I think I had a tendency already to really absorb those types of messages.

And what happens with scrupulosity is that you start to see despite your desire to be absolutely 100% perfect and following the rules, keeping the commandments, whatever you want to call it. You see how woefully short you fall and catastrophize that falling short. And so it becomes the type of thing where you’re in a constant spiral of sort of wanting to repent and confess, needing sort of external validation. Typically for a missionary, this will come from a mission president where you go into the interview and, “President, you’ve got to send me home. I have a bad thought type thing.”

And the president typically would be like, “Whoa, hold on there.” And that was the case for me, was like, “Don’t worry about it, you’re worthy.” And it was just this constant cycle. What you don’t realize with OCD is that what it’s searching for is certainty all the time and it’s not really just scrupulosity, I think it manifests in almost all forms of OCD. And so you get that moment of certainty when you confess but that’s actually counter to what an actual treatment plan would be if you went and talked to a professional therapist that specializes in OCD.

What you need to feed the OCD in order to make it smaller is uncertainty. And so getting trapped in that constant cycle of repentance, confession, feeling good, it gets shorter and shorter. You feel great walking out of the mission president’s office but by the time you’re at your apartment you realize, oh shoot, there is this other aspect of my sin that I forgot to confess. I’ve got to go back. And it gets really difficult for that reason. My OCD and to be clear, I don’t know how much, Jody, you’ve talked about OCD on your podcast.

Jody: I haven’t. I haven’t.

Tim: Okay. Well, I’ll take the opportunity then because I would imagine that there are lots of people listening that have OCD.

Jody: Or children.

Tim: Definitely. It can manifest in children. For me, it started to manifest as a child but it definitely got worse on my mission. And they say that one, I think it’s 1% to 2% of people overall have OCD but based on my anecdotal experience, having spoken about it on the podcast and then having friends and family members come to me and talk about it. It seems far more prevalent than that to me just on my personal relationships.

It seems more like five, 10 plus percent of Latter Day Saints seem to struggle with it in some form. And so it’s a big deal. And if it’s undiagnosed it can be really, really problematic.

Aubrey: Can I just add? It’s so easy for it to be undiagnosed because we have, we literally talk about the repentance process which maps exactly over this OCD spiral. And so if you don’t – of course, you don’t know you’re having a different experience than someone else because you’ve always had your own brain. So it’s really easy to fly under the radar and to even get praised for it. Your bishop or your mission president could easily say, “Oh my gosh, you’re so pure. You’re coming and confessing this thing that most people wouldn’t even think twice about. Good for you.”

And it’s sort of in with such good intentions, they’re kind of feeding this OCD and maybe it’s keeping it under the radar even longer because we have all this language to explain the experience.

Tim: They’ve done these studies that show that 40% plus of people with OCD consider suicide at some point in their lives. And so there is this big contrast between the stereotypical funny OCD that you hear about on sitcoms, whatever. It’s like, I’ve got to vacuum, I’ve got to straighten whatever. And real-life OCD which is very prevalent and can be very, very difficult and damaging when it goes untreated. And I want to be clear too, it’s not just scrupulosity. There are many other forms of OCD.

Some of the worst ones are the types that make you believe that you’re dangerous in some way. And I know that sounds weird to say it but the people that are listening, that are hearing this I know are saying, “Holy smokes, that could be me.” But there is something called violence OCD where you believe that you might be capable of grabbing a weapon and hurting someone. There are different types of sexual OCD where you believe that you might be a sexual deviant or that you become a sexual offender of some kind.

And one that I know is difficult for a lot of new parents that have OCD is they could be changing, and I hope this is okay that we’re just being totally transparent, Jody.

Jody: Yeah, I think it’s valuable, yeah.

Tim: They could be changing a child’s diaper and worry that they are having a sexual thought of some kind, oh my gosh, am I a pedophile? And what happens a lot of the time with OCD again is these people are living impeccably worthy lives so that type of a thought is horrendously difficult to deal with. And it can get to the point too where it’s difficult to go to a therapist and talk about those things because you could literally have thoughts to the point where if I confess these thoughts to someone are they going to lock me up?

Are they going to take me to a treatment center? I don’t know what’s going on. And I can tell you what will happen when you go to an OCD therapist and confess your thoughts. They’re going to be like, “Yeah, I’ve heard that one a million times, here is what we’re going to do.” It’s much less scary than you would imagine when you’re in the thick of it because again if it’s undiagnosed you don’t have vocabulary to say, “This is OCD.” What you might have vocabulary for as we relate to this person is that’s Satan putting thoughts in my head, tempting me maybe in some way, am I going to cave to that?

On the other side, OCD can make you really compulsive in terms of righteous actions or trying to take care of stuff. And so that can be, on that side that can be the spirit saying, “Oh no, I know you saw that stick in the road five miles back. What if a car has to swerve? You didn’t take care of that.” That was an obstruction that got in their way. They had to swerve into the lane and at the end of the day if there’s a head-on collision, it’s going to be your fault. It’s not but that’s the spirit according to someone with OCD telling you, you’ve got to go back.

Aubrey: Or if you forget to say your prayers then someone you love isn’t protected or if you don’t go to the temple this many times then it’s connected to good things that your healthier self would also like to be engaged in but it’s coming from this place of total fear.

Tim: That was what was going on for me under the surface on my mission.

Jody: And that’s extremely, I just want to emphasize like you said, how painful and I haven’t experienced it so I don’t know firsthand but I can only imagine how painful and I do think OCD is one of those diagnoses that we joke about. And we say it all the time and which is probably really inappropriate. And also makes it challenging for someone who really does have OCD to maybe identify with and then get the necessary help. It’s not a funny thing at all actually when you’re living it.

Tim: Both of those things are true. I think once you’ve been diagnosed it is a little bit hard to be honest to hear people casually say, “I’m so OCD”, or whatever. And that stereotype for whatever reason, OCD has become this funny thing that we just talk about in culture. And that can, I think that you’re right, that can totally prevent diagnosis and treatment because it’s like, oh no, I don’t have OCD, I have this other thing that’s going on in my brain and I don’t know what it is.

Jody: This dark heavy painful thing.

Tim: Yeah. And I might be the only one. I definitely thought I was uniquely bad, uniquely evil, a unique sinner that could not be redeemed. And I’ve talked about this a little bit before but my purpose in staying in staying in my mission was to try to offer the salvation that was totally out of reach for me to other people. That was my mentality. I had given up on myself completely.

There was no chance of me ever getting married, having a family, going to the Celestial Kingdom in the next life but I felt like I had the message that could help other people get there because they weren’t as depraved as I was. And so that’s why I stayed out and kept doing that.

Jody: So at what point did you realize then and receive your diagnosis?

Tim: It was years after my mission. Once I got out of the mission environment it settled down, I mean maybe 50%, 60% better, that type of thing. It was always bugging me a little bit. What happened was eventually I applied to grad school about four years after, let’s see, yeah, four years after graduating BYU.

Jody: And you guys were married at this point?

Tim: Yes. We had been married for five/six years. And I became convinced, so I got into what I thought was my dream school and I was so excited about it. But what happened was I had this little OCD trigger that was you cheated on your application. And what had happened was I had sent my application essays out to a bunch of friends for editing and feedback. And I’d incorporated some of that feedback into my essay, got in and my life was going to change. That’s how I felt. And it was the most important thing to me at that time, I’d been working toward this goal for years.

And literally in a single moment it occurred to me like a snap, you cheated on your essay. You shouldn’t have used the feedback, the words that other people gave you for those essays. And that absolutely just tore me up. I can’t tell you, it sounds so weird, I know. It was totally debilitating to the point where I couldn’t think about anything else. I felt that I had to confess. And so it was like my only options here are go to the dean of admissions and say, “Look, here’s what happened, I’m so sorry. I’m going to leave this in your hands.”

But at the same time, you’re not losing your mind. I recognized how weird that would be and so my path it seemed was, well, I just got into my dream school but I’m going to have to decline because that’s the moral thing to do, that’s the right thing to do. And I started talking through this with Aubrey. And she was like, “Yeah. No, you’re not doing that.”

Jody: What did you think, Aubrey?

Aubrey: We had just through some Googling and a couple of other little things that had come up we had started learning about what OCD was. And started wondering, could this really be part of what’s happening? When there’s a problem could it really be OCD? But this was the first time where it felt so clear to me that it was actually going to derail our life. I felt understanding OCD a little bit, it was sort of validating for me because in our marriage up to that point, I had always kind of played the role of the devil on his shoulder.

Because he would feel so wracked with guilt about so many things. And I was always caught off guard by it. And so it was really hard for me, I would wonder, maybe I’m just not worthy of the spirit. Maybe he is feeling something that I’m incapable of feeling because I don’t feel any guilt about this stuff. But then when I started learning about OCD and recognizing the way that that dynamic could sort of fit into this diagnosis, that gave me a little bit more confidence. What if I’m not doing this wrong? What if this is really OCD’s voice, not the spirit?

And then when it got to be that there was a decision to be made that was so important and it seemed so – I could feel myself say, “That’s not dishonest. And I can trust that I’m seeing this clearly.” It felt really important to just pause for a minute and get help before there was a decision made that we couldn’t unmake.

Jody: Undo, yeah.

Aubrey: Yeah. So I think I actually made an appointment for a therapist, an OCD specialist and he went to the appointment.

Jody: He agreed.

Aubrey: And nothing has ever been the same, yeah. And the gift that when if there’s a little silver lining, one amazing thing about OCD is that it actually gets better so fast. As soon as you start doing exposures, you get traction so fast. And I know it’s different for everyone but I think there are a lot of mental illnesses that are so defeating because it’s just such a long haul and it’s so hard to see progress. And even though this will be a lifetime battle you see progress almost immediately. It was so hope giving because there was a change two weeks into therapy you could see that there was a change.

And it became the orientation of our family. So the idea of exposure therapy is that you’re sort of doing the opposite of what OCD says. And so our whole, I changed and Tim changed, and it’s such a good way to look at your life even if you don’t have OCD. Anxiety at its root is this intolerance for uncertainty. And so when you have the orientation that it’s good to try something that you’re scared of it creates healthier selves for everybody whether or not you have a diagnosis. That was such a huge turning point in our life.

Tim: A lot of the exposures that you do as part of exposure therapy and sort of the work that you do with the therapist will be around sort of accepting uncertainty in all aspects of your life. And that plays in really closely to our faith journey as well because I think one of the reasons we started down this path that would eventually lead us to Faith Matters was that OCD-driven desire for certainty that I had. I first heard about historical issues, problems people have with Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or social issues on a mission.

Up to that point I think I had been fairly insulated in sort of just her mostly the party line and I felt like as a missionary I was ill-equipped to handle some of those challenges. I wanted to be able to do that and I wanted to feel really, really sure in my own testimony so that I could combat those untruths and make sure that I was on the right side of things. That’s OCD in a nutshell, just make sure that you’re on the right side of things all the time. And this is sort of stereotypical faith crisis stuff but at the same time I like to think that it was before faith crisis was cool.

So I started doing research reading books, getting on the internet and in order to be able to defend the faith better than previously I’ve been able to do but found that as I did the research my own questions and doubts were increasing. And eventually, after several years of sort of quietly doing this, it got to the point where I felt I wasn’t being honest with Aubrey by not telling her about my doubts.

And I finally decided I need to tell her because potentially I’m not even the man that she married in the temple, going through these covenants based on the fact that we both have these testimonies that aren’t just faith potentially, they’re knowledge. And that was not where I was anymore. I was, sort of everything’s up in the air. I don’t know if the truth is true. I told Aubrey that but I was terrified what her response was going to be. We had built our lives on those testimonies and we had two kids when I’d brought it up and I thought literally is she going to take the kids?

Am I blowing up my family with her knowing sort of what her family stands on these things, where my family stands? It was terrifying. And I want Aubrey to just talk about what she felt when I said that but to her credit she never gave me a moment of actual doubt about those things. She grabbed my hand and said, “Whatever it is we’re going to figure this out together.” And that’s literally what we’ve done ever since, yeah.

Jody: Were you surprised by it?

Aubrey: Yes. In fact, yeah, I was, yeah, I totally, yeah, I was so shocked because it’s always so hard to hear Tim talk about that, his thoughts before he told me because if that’s what was going to happen. I think that was our worldview, it was God, and then family. And so this was messing with the God piece and I can see how he was going to walk through, is she going to think the right thing to do is ‘choose God’ and split the family up?

And it’s really painful to think about but because it wasn’t real for us yet it was easy to talk like that’s the priority that the church was going to take in our life before we had any doubts. And we hadn’t experienced this piece of our faith together yet and so it was a big huge unknowable thing when he had to bring it up first and so it took so much courage. And I think it was clear when he brought it up the very first time, it was so clear that he was coming from this place of just wanting to be really honest. And I could see that there was so much pain behind it.

And so because he approached it with all this humility and I could see he was going out on a limb and doing something so hard. I think that that really cracked my heart open. The only thing I could feel was just I felt a lot of fear but also just so much love. And it was easy to just hold a minute for I don’t understand this but I can see that there’s so much pain.

And my own faith sort of started deconstructing because I really leaned on his strength. I had my own questions that I was so afraid of that I had done everything I could to just not ever have to look at them. I feel I was kind of I had been building a dam to keep the questions back.

Jody: Sort of afraid of them, of looking at them?

Aubrey: So afraid of them. And I thought it was wrong, I thought there was some kind of moral thing going on if you chose to look at your doubts. And so I think I really relied on Tim’s strength to keep that dam intact because he seemed so sure. And so if there was something about polygamy or his diversity that felt really destabilizing to me I could look at Tim and be like, I don’t know, I trust him. I know him. He knows so that’s going to help keep the dam strong. And so it was sort of I had an instant problem because all of that strength was withdrawn in a moment. I just had nothing left.

It felt like I was sort of forced to start really looking at my own questions. And it’s so interesting, Jody, to look back because I didn’t have the model or any of these tools. But it is so clear when I look back at this era in our life I can tell you the thought that was dominating our life and that was that we don’t know that the church is true and we should. And that took over our lives and so we became totally obsessed with answering that question which makes sense.

I mean that created so much scarcity and fear and this feeling of being two selves, going to church and being one self and then going home and being real. And I sort of started losing the feeling of belonging not just because I didn’t know the church was [inaudible] but also because I couldn’t show up as myself at church. I expected that if people knew what I really thought that they would push me away. And so I withdrew and I didn’t feel like I could bring up any real questions.

And I became kind of cynical because not in a mean-spirited way but just because my thought was I needed to find out if the truth was true. So literally everything that came up in church, I wasn’t asking, does this serve me? I was asking, is that a fact? Everything that came up in church. And so I felt totally isolated and I felt like a fraud and I felt like I couldn’t connect with God at church anymore and I couldn’t connect with my community at church anymore because I didn’t have the one single answer.

And over the years I think what happened very slowly, I mean this would have saved us just so much pain, understanding the way that thought was keeping us stuck in this feeling and in this result of feeling like we don’t belong. But I think what we learned very slowly is that what we thought that thought was going to produce was this feeling that we could connect with God and with our community. So I thought that those were totally connected. If I know the church is true then I will be able to find God at church.

And I mean we weren’t doing this but I think this would have just saved us years of slow and really dirty pain. That’s still the result I want. I want to show up to church and feel connected to my community and I want to feel like I can connect to my higher self and to God at church. And so that means that I have to learn people’s names and I have to engage in a way that makes me feel connected. And that hasn’t come from a place of abundance and trust.

And I think that the thought that had to change was just that I belong because I’m here. And when I slowly stepped into I belong because I am here and that’s all it takes then all of a sudden I could just feel at peace being there in my community and being there with all of our traditions. And suddenly all of those channels just opened right back up and I realized it actually for me didn’t have anything to do with truth claims. I was never going to get to a place where I could prove that and so I didn’t need to.

There was totally a way to get to that same result of feeling peace in my community and with God in that exact place without having a sure thing answer. And in a way, OCD was totally the precursor. That really did prime [inaudible], why do we consider certainty such a value? Everything revolved around certainty and when that started breaking down as we learned about OCD, we were doing the exact same thing in the church too.

And I remember really specifically hearing a podcast with Terryl Givens. It was the first time I’d ever heard Terryl speak. And I remember him using this analogy of a pencil and he said that “God will never compel you to believe. There will always be compelling reasons to believe and there will always be compelling reasons not to believe.” And he talked about a pencil and how every time you drop a pencil it’s going to fall. And so you’re compelled to believe in gravity. Every single time the same thing’s going to happen so you don’t really have agency there. It’s just that’s the thing that happens.

I remember that just blowing my mind and realizing that that is faith. I’m never going to get to a place even if I have a vision, there’s just nothing that could actually make my faith a fact. And so I felt eventually we just had to sort of set that aside. And that’s kind of paradoxical. It’s uncomfortable still but it produced the result that I wanted in the beginning. I feel so much love for the people that I gather with to worship. And I feel like I have more access to God when I just set that aside and stopped obsessing about what is a fact here and just chose to engage.

Jody: And I think because our culture has some somewhat unique qualities to it and we develop our own sort of language just like when we pray we all repeat the same phrases. And when we share our testimony we say, “I know this church is true.” But just throwing out things like that I think it sends that message like you said that you should know this is true, that’s what we do here. We say that “I know this is true.”

And what I appreciate so much about the work that you two do now and the work that Faith Matters is, tries to just evolve us to that next level of some days I don’t know if it’s true. And certain parts of it I really am not sure about. But overall I do have a relationship with God and Jesus Christ and I love how this community and this church make my life better and I want to bring something to this community. But that language of I know this is true like you said, it’s not like gravity. We know gravity is real. We don’t know that God is real.

You can have a very strong manifestation and feeling and confirmation of that, I’m not trying to deny that. But that again anything that leads to believing that you should have certainty as extreme as OCD or just more like your experience, Aubrey, of doubts, actually fuels the doubt, fuels the problem. It’s so crazy, right?

Aubrey: That’s so true.

Tim: Yeah. I think that’s right. And yeah, well, first of all, Jody, I’ll say that when I ask for the food to nourish and strengthen our bodies I really mean it. I’m very authentic.

Jody: My son was like, “Wait, we’re eating Cheetos.” I think that God’s like, give me something to work with here.

Tim: But I think yeah, for us also I mean during this whole journey that’s now been a, I guess, 12-year journey, one of the things that we’ve come to rely on as sort of a mental framework is the idea that everyone’s faith, it’s a different journey for everybody but there are sort of common stages that people pass through as they work through challenges to their faith.

There is a famous framework by James Fowler, the stages of the faith framework that I think is really helpful but maybe our favorite and there are several different ones. Jared Halverson talked at [inaudible] conference about one that he calls creation [inaudible] atonement which is really beautiful. One of my personal favorites is by our friend named Brian McLaren. He’s a former evangelical pastor, a Christian sort of thought leader who’s written tons of just amazing stuff and our favorite book of his is called Faith After Doubt.

He’s also a podcaster, he’s done stuff with the Center for Action and Contemplation with Richard Rohr which is all just really incredible. But his framework in Faith After Doubt has four stages and they’re called simplicity, complexity, perplexity and harmony. And in simplicity basically, you see the world in black and white, it’s very clear, there’s not really any difficult challenging questions to address. If somebody sees it the other way, nothing they’re thinking is really valid, it’s pretty clear cut.

In complexity, you start to recognize that there are difficult questions but you’re going to do all of the difficult work to respond in a really perfect way to those questions. So in our Latter-Day Saint context, a lot of people struggle with polygamy. And in complexity the answer would be okay, I’m going to read everything about polygamy and I’m going to make it make sense and I’m going to show why that this was 100% inspired and perfect and it’s everything that I would hope for it to be.

After complexity, a lot of people get into a stage called perplexity where you realize that you haven’t been able to answer and this is where I was sort of when I started confessing to Aubrey what I was feeling. I haven’t been able to answer those questions sufficiently. I’m recognizing that the questions are there but my answers aren’t good enough. And so you start to throw stuff out. And you can even get into a real stage of cynicism. So perplexity, meaning, the questions are all that matter. There are no answers.

And if somebody thinks they have the answers then they’re just delusional, nobody can figure this stuff out.

Jody: Or they haven’t read enough, they don’t know enough.

Tim: Or they haven’t read enough, yeah, totally. And that stage is really probably the most painful stage. It definitely is the most painful stage because that’s where like Aubrey’s talking about, you can really start to feel alienated from your community beyond just the questions about your own beliefs. You definitely start to feel like you don’t fit in. I think at church there is a lot of air time given to people in stage one and stage two and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. We have talked about this on our podcast too.

The world and the church need all four stages and they all bring unique gifts. But the stage three people can be really upset when they hear the stage one and stage two type of thing. And it can definitely make you feel marginalized. The final stage for Brian is harmony where you sort of recognize that you may not have all the answers. You may not ever get to the answers but there’s something bigger going on here that is worth holding onto.

And Brian the way that he puts it is, faith before doubt expresses itself in the form of correct beliefs. Faith after doubt expresses itself in love. That final statement he’s actually getting from a verse in the new international version of Galatians. I think it’s Galatians 1:5 if I’m not mistaken that says, ‘The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love’. And we all set up base camp in a given stage but we move into other stages all the time. And so there are definitely parts of my life where I’m a stage one type of person and parts of my life where I’m a stage three person.

And depending on the week at church I might be there rolling my eyes and feeling a little cynical and another week I might feel pretty sure about something. And another week I might say, “I have no idea but look at all these beautiful people that I’m connecting with.” And I guess, my hope is that regardless of whatever turns out to be true and I definitely have a system of belief and a belief in the divine and the belief that the church is the wonderful vehicle for us to connect with the divine.

I guess my hope is that my faith is that type of faith that is expressing itself in love.

Jody: I want to ask both of you to answer this question individually because there are a lot of communities or religions or places where you can feel close to God. Why do you choose to stay in the LDS church?

Aubrey: That became a question that we were talking about every day after dinner. It was just that became the consuming thing, why this, if it’s not the one and only true, which I felt we had sort of accepted that we were never going to get a perfect answer there. And I think kind of the answer that I came to was that it’s because we’re here, this is just where I was plopped down. And that used to be really disturbing to me that I couldn’t justify it, I couldn’t convince myself that had I not been born into the church that I would have found it and joined.

And so I felt that meant, well, I guess I should leave then. If I don’t feel sure it’s the only thing worth doing then I should leave. And I think over the years, I started just really challenging that idea. And so what feels true to me now is that I am here and this is something Thomas McConkie has shared on our podcast a little bit and kind of helped coached us through. But the fact that we were born here and this is our mother tongue gives us such a capacity to help the church grow in a way that feels healthy and that actually serves us and helps us to connect to God.

And that feels like such a powerful reason. I don’t think that I have to justify that I would have found it. I think I can look around and say, “I actually just really appreciate that I started here.” And so I have these shared traditions with my immediate family and my extended family and my deep-back ancestral family and that’s good enough. In fact, I think maybe it gives me, it means that I have some responsibility here because if I can’t give to this community and then I’m not sure who else I’m expecting to.

And so I think mostly at the end of the day that idea that this is where I belong that’s the thing that actually connects me to God which is all I wanted in the first place. I want a sacred place where I can find God. And what I’m learning is that I can do that here. I can do that here, maybe it’s a little bit of all of those reasons and it took a long time to realize that those are good enough reasons. Those are great reasons. Those are maybe the only reasons that actually even work.

Jody: I love that. My sister, Natalie Clay does couples coaching and one of the things she’s constantly saying is that we think that you should stay in a marriage for certain reasons. It used to be shameful to leave your marriage. Now the new shame is staying in your marriage if things aren’t perfect if there’s infidelity if there’s whatever. The way she’s constantly coaching is whatever your reason is if you like the reason. People say, “Don’t just stay for the kids.” Well, if you want to just stay for the kids you can. There’s no right reason.

There’s no fairytale because you’re in love in this magical way forever and your reason can change too and your reason can adapt over time. But I love what you’re saying about it doesn’t have to be this grandiose reason. If it’s a reason that you like and it feels good to you there’s probably no perfect reason and there’s definitely no perfect community. Tim, how would you answer that question?

Tim: Yeah. Well, I guess I’d say first of all I do think that the Latter Day tradition has some real gems and things that it does just as good or better than anybody. I can think, we do community just as well or better than anybody. We have this amazing sort of first half of life framework that again I credit with a lot of my, you know, whatever success I’ve had in family or work or whatever, I was raised in this really beautiful way that taught me the value of hard work and honesty and diligence and uprightness.

And some of those things, yeah, we talk about they went a little haywire but I also give a huge amount of credit to my upbringing in church for a lot of those things. At the same time, I now believe that all religious traditions and wisdom traditions have their own gems that it would be good for all of us to explore to the extent possible.

One of my favorite podcasts that we did was with Michael Wilcox who’s sort of a long-time teacher and writer in the church and he talks about this analogy of a compass, the kind that draws circles, not the kind that points north or south. And it’s two feet and what he calls them are the fixed foot and the searching foot. So you’ve got one that’s kind of got that needle and it’s stuck in a place and then the other one, the point is for it to draw increasingly broad circles and gathering whatever wisdom we can from anywhere we can.

And I think my reason for keeping that foot fixed like Aubrey said is part of it is this is who I am. It’s my mother tongue and it’s where I can do the best and have the most impact. But also I think there’s for the most growth we do need depth and we need breadth. Latter Day Saint ism is where I get my depth. I don’t think the best model is probably to jump around and honeymoon in a bunch of different traditions and see only the good things.

Once you go deep, you see the problems and you’re able to sort of work through the problems which is really growth-inducing for you and everybody else that’s involved. And the depth can get you the gems from all of those other amazing and beautiful traditions that we don’t emphasize as much that we could and that we can learn from.

Jody: That’s beautiful.

Aubrey: Can I just add? The problem’s actually been a good thing. I mean that was such a paradigm shift that has been fruitful for us because when we started all of this we thought that the problems were – that was a red flag. It was the thing that was saying you’ve got to cut and run. And having this new paradigm, that the point is that you should be in tension. You need the tension for growth. Then when you run up against something that makes you uncomfortable it does feel like a gift. It’s an opportunity to stretch.

And if you talk about forgiveness and teach about and sing about forgiveness but have never actually had to do the soul-stretching work of offering forgiveness to someone who genuinely hurt you, do you really know anything about that value? And I really think Tim’s right, we’ve got to be in the rumble somewhere and it’s easy to walk away when it gets like when you feel the tension and it’s too uncomfortable. But I really think that’s where all the benefit is, it’s where the rubber actually hits the road and you experience real growth which I really think is what goes hand in hand with the connection that we’re always seeking.

Tim: One analogy that Aubrey and I have been talking about over the past couple of years is a rock tumbler. She actually got me one for my birthday and it’s been super fun. But if you think about us as these unpolished rough stones that we want to eventually make polished and beautiful, well, there are a couple of things required in that rock tumbler. Number one is other rocks in there, that can be the church experience and being there rubbing shoulders with other people and it could be leaders or just peers or whatever.

But if you go to church week in, week out and accepting, and participating in callings and dealing with people in your neighborhood, things are going to happen and it’s going to be tough. And each one of those tough things is going to clip off one of your rough edges. But the other really important piece of the tumbler is the container itself. That’s what’s keeping everybody together enough for those rocks to bump up against each other and eventually create these smooth and beautiful stones.

So without that church piece, we’re not contained enough, like Aubrey said, there’s not enough tension to keep us together and cause that friction that’s going to help us become who we want to be eventually.

Jody: That’s so beautiful, yeah, the friction and the challenge is an important part of it. I think about this with families too. There is that primary song where they sing, God gave us families to help us become who he wants us to be and I always laugh a little because I’m like, “Yeah, it’s going to help you become who he wants you to be, to be in a family.” There’s just no way around it.

I guess we’re almost out of time but I want to make sure and just connect the dots on how you found the Turnbull’s and the Faith Matters Foundation. And what I see the two of you doing and this is my assumption based on the little bit I know but is that you’ve turned your experience and a lot of which was very challenging into now you’re contributing and you’re contributing to being part of the solution. I am sure it’s served you but it’s the best way.

When you said, Aubrey, “If I would have known the model and known all this we could have saved years.” But my thought is that that would have been such a shame because we would have missed out on you two doing the work that you’re doing now and it was necessary. So will you just kind of close the loop on how you ended up at Faith Matters?

Aubrey: Yeah, Tim, do you want to talk about how you found Bill?

Tim: Well, so like Aubrey said, we were huge fans of Terryl Givens, once we heard those initial interviews with him we thought, man, here’s a thinker. And then we realized that Fiona’s equally incredible, who we can really relate to and that is open about these faith challenges but still is doing so much within the context of faith. And so we followed their work over the years and eventually, a podcast came out called Conversations with Terryl Givens.

And we were immediate huge fans and looked behind the scenes who was behind this podcast, and it was the Faith Matters Foundation that was founded by the Turnbull’s and they connected with Terryl and started this podcast. And so we just reached out and said, “Hey, we love what you’re doing, can we help in any way?” And we started just meeting with them, offering whatever we could sort of on the social media side, on the marketing side. And eventually, they asked to sort of sub on a couple of podcast interviews.

And then we realized that people seemed to be really hungry for this type of content and work. But we weren’t being quite consistent enough as an organization in getting the content out there. And so Aubrey and I kind of said, “Hey, we’d love to just host more often if that’s helpful.” And what can I say? It’s spiraled out of control since then. It’s been about I think three years since we’ve been doing it. So the podcast, Conversations with Terryl Givens morphed into the Faith Matters podcast.

So Aubrey and I host, Terryl still hosts on occasion but he’s also a guest, our executive director that joined this past year, Zach Davis hosts on occasion. And we hope to bring lots of different voices and perspectives. We hope that again within sort of the context of faith, and we hope that faith is the kind that’s expressing itself in love, that we’re being totally open, that we can have all different types of conversations and voices. And what’s awesome is that Aubrey and I think, we’re just asking the questions that we have.

We’re reading the books that we want to read and talking to the people we want to talk to. And we hope that it’s authentic for that reason because it’s something we really care about.

Aubrey: That has sort of become a spiritual practice. For so many years we spent trying to not ask the wrong question or not ask the question that we didn’t already have an answer to. And our experience doing the podcast but also just kind of the years before the podcast has taught us that just leaning into the uncertainty of a question that doesn’t have an answer. There is something that is incredibly vulnerable about that that I feel opens up a channel to connect you to God.

And the podcast has been such a gift for us because it’s practice, every week just mining a new topic for what’s the genuine question, what’s the question I’m afraid of asking? What’s the whole truth about why I’m afraid of asking this question? And I just love having to be a little bit accountable for that process and having to do that in every single interview. And I mean this is such a fluid journey. We’re still totally on this journey together but that’s been a real gift to just practice doing that in each other’s presence.

That’s a hard thing to do I think in a marriage where your lives are so intertwined but it’s been a gift to do it every week together. Just what’s the real question here? And let’s just ask it even though we have no idea what the answer is. And maybe it’s going to lead to another question that’s even bigger. And I think what it’s taught me is that you can have peace in all of that uncertainty and I always think of the scripture about peace surpasses all understanding in the Bible.

And the way that I understood that forever was that it was peace so big you just can’t even comprehend. But the only way I can hear it now is that it’s not logical. It’s not logical that you could feel peace with all of this uncertainty swirling around but that’s what this has taught me. Leaning into the questions and not avoiding them, just diving right in and just asking the scary thing. Somehow there is peace there when that is the method. When you choose that and just it forces you to see your relationship with God as a trusting relationship as opposed to one that depends on anything.

And I feel like that is the way into peace surpasses all understanding and not just with faith, but with anything in our life. When you can embrace and stop resisting uncertainty, that’s the doorway into peace. And it took us so many years to finally start experimenting with that. But it has been, there is nothing deeper than the kind of peace that can’t be disturbed because it’s in the uncertainty. It’s the kind of peace that you feel when you’re calling. And it feels like it takes such intention daily, I mean hourly.

It’s a thing we have to constantly try to choose but being able to do these interviews together and practice that every week has been a really good way to make sure it stays central in our life.

Jody: Well, I just want to end with sharing with you, I recently was talking to a woman who shared with me that she’s an active member of the church but has some questions and like you said, likes to gain tools and knowledge from all different sources. And she was recently called to be the Relief Society teacher in her ward. And she said, “I told the bishop I’d be happy to take that calling but just so you know when I teach I will probably at times say, “This part I’m not sure I agree with or I’m not sure if I believe in this part.””

And I was bracing myself for what her bishop might have said. And what he said is, “That’s great.”

Tim: Wow. That’s so cool.

Jody: And it just made me think about the work that you two are doing and that we’re all trying to do. It’s getting out there, it’s working. We’re evolving. And we’re not trying to shake anybody’s testimony but we’re just trying to make the organization of a church a safe place for people at whatever stage they may be at. And I think it’s working.

Aubrey: Yeah, I think so too.

Tim: Thank you, Jody.

Aubrey: Yeah, thank you so much, [crosstalk] you.

Tim: Yeah, you know Jody how highly we think of you and your work. And it’s been so fun to collaborate and work more together. So hopefully we can keep doing that.

Jody: Let’s keep doing it, let’s start our own podcast, a third one. We all need another one, right?

Tim: Right, exactly.

Jody: Well, you can hear more from Tim and Aubrey at Faith Matters. Anywhere else we should send them?

Tim: Yeah, the Faith Matters podcast, it’s all on all the normal places and the website is faithmatters.org.

Jody: Alright, thanks, you guys.

Aubrey: Thanks, Jody.

Tim: Thanks, Jody.

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The post 393. Finding Peace in Uncertainty with Tim and Aubrey Chavez appeared first on Jody Moore.

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“Do I have the right niche?” This is the most common question I get asked, especially by coaches. Seriously considering your niche is a natural, normal process that all successful coaches go through, but it gets way more airplay in the heads of new coaches than is necessary. So, I’m simplifying the conversation in today’s episode.

If you want to build a successful business, you need a niche. However, searching for the ‘right’ or ‘best’ niche is one of the things that slows new coaches down the most. The truth is, your niche isn’t what’s going to decide how successful you are, so the sooner you can stop spinning in indecision and start getting down to business, the better.

Tune in this week to discover whether or not you have the right niche. I’m sharing a story that illustrates why most niches will work for you if you’re willing to work them, how to decide what you want your niche to be, and how to be patient and consistent as you start building a business around your chosen niche.

Coaching has profoundly impacted my life and the lives of so many others. However, coaching is kind of difficult to describe. It’s easier to show you, so if you want to give coaching a try, you can come get a sample for just $19! Over five days in January, I’m holding a coaching intensive called Get Your Goal. You can come and get coached, you can watch others get coached, and it might just change your life.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why having a niche is so important. * Why there is no perfect niche and whichever niche you choose is going to require some work on your part. * How to decide what your niche should be and how you can build your business around that niche.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Do I Have the Right Niche?

Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Alright, entrepreneur friends, welcome back to another Entre-Talk episode. This question about niche is the most common question I get especially from coaches and I’m kind of trying to say this in the right way because on the one hand when I hear this question come up, a part of me wants to roll my eyes and go, “Come on, not this again.” But another part of me knows that it is a natural, normal process that a lot of coaches go through.

The reason I want to roll my eyes and grab you by the shoulders and just shake you out of it a little bit is because it gets far more airplay in the heads of coaches than is necessary and it slows coaches down. And I think the reason that we make it so dramatic and heavy, and we drag it out and make it take so long is because we don’t understand how much we’re giving weight to unnecessary things, we don’t understand. A niche, yes, I want you to have a niche. I’d love you having a niche.

In fact all these people that are just offering coaching concerns me. I think you can do a little bit of business that way. I don’t think you can get to where you may want to go, long run. I don’t think you can grow a big business that way and maybe I’m wrong, prove me wrong. But in most cases I find that having a niche which is a specific problem that you solve for a specific group of people just makes it way easier. So you don’t have to. It would just be so much easier to build a successful business if you do.

But here’s what I want to say about it. I want to explain my thoughts about this by telling you a story about my life growing up as a child with our family pets, so stay with me. The Lyman family which is my maiden name, we were and I would say still are, if we make my parents be my family that I’m referencing here. We are cat people. Now, don’t get mad at me, I know, people hate cats. My point is we had cats growing up a lot. I remember us having a cat almost all the time. And then the cat would get hit by a car or something and then we’d get a new cat, very sad.

But at any rate we know cats and we still know cats. We knew how to take care of a cat. We knew what to feed the cat and how to let it out and that it wouldn’t run away, that it would come back and how to take care of a cat. And some of those cats I liked better than others, but at any point we always had cats. Well, one day somehow my siblings and I talked my parents into getting a dog. And I was trying to remember this on my walk the other day. I feel like we went through two dogs but I don’t know, I could be wrong about that.

I’m sure some of my siblings and parents could fill me in but what I do remember is that we had this one dog named Charlie. And he was – I don’t know if he was a pure Lab, or he was Lab with a mix of some other types of dog that I’m not really familiar with. But at any rate he was a big dog and we would put him in the backyard and let him in and feed him. And we did our best to take care of this dog but in the end we had to get rid of Charlie because he was just too much. He was wild and destructive and he had all this pent up energy.

And we tried to take him on walks and things but he was still just so hyper and he was constantly chewing up things, chewing people’s shoes and just total mischievous wild dog, so we ended up getting rid of him. And I remember telling people the story at various times about yeah, we used to have a dog but we got rid of him, he was just a wild dog. I mean he would chew the trim on the outside of the house, you know the trim that goes around the windows? It was chewed up because Charlie chewed it.

And I remember telling people this story as though they would understand and what I was conveying was that we got a bad dog, a dog that was just too wild, too hyper, too disobedient. We just sort of lucked out with this dog. And then fast forward many years later and I married to a man, Jake Moore who is a dog person. The Moore’s are dog people. They have had dogs a lot in their lives and Jake understands dogs. And recently within the last three years, I guess, Jake talked me into letting us get a dog and we got this French Bulldog named Finn.

This is my first time having a dog since Charlie. And what I noticed is that Jake spent a lot of time with Finn, training him, teaching him how to obey his commands and what various commands meant. And he first of all did this on his own and he sat each of us down and said, “We have to spend time with Finn, we have to teach him how to listen and how to obey. And so he taught us how to do it, none of us were as good or consistent at it as Jake was but at any rate Jake spent a lot of time with Finn.

He would go to classes with Finn at the vet, the local dog place and he would work with Finn with somebody else teaching him what to do. And all of that helped and then at one point we even paid a lump of money to send Finn away for a couple weeks and have another trainer work really intensely with Finn for a couple weeks to teach him and train him how to be somewhat obedient.

And watching all this and watching how if we aren’t consistent with the way we talk to Finn and the way we reward him or continue to reinforce what this amazing trainer did with him then Finn starts getting a little naughty again. And we have to sometimes rein it back in. And as I’ve watched this, it made me realize, Charlie wasn’t a bad dog. We didn’t get a disobedient dogs. Dogs just are kind of wild and rowdy and they don’t obey orders unless you teach them how to obey.

Now, this might be obvious to you, especially if you grew up with dogs. But this was mind blowing to me because I’ve been believing all this time that we just got a wild dog. We did not get a wild dog, we got a dog. And then we didn’t know how to train that dog. And this is how it goes with your business my friends. This is how it goes with your niche. There is not a right niche or a good niche, there is just a niche.

Any niche you choose is going to require some work on your part. It’s going to require that you be patient, that you be consistent with what I call planting your garden. Planting your garden is putting out content, nurturing that content, taking really good care of people, being willing to help and serve in whatever way you’re trying to build a business around in the beginning for free, just because you’re trying to figure out what you’re doing and you’re trying to plant some seeds. And you’re trying to figure out the right wording and how to best serve people.

And then you consistently put out content and you consistently learn more about marketing and sales and eventually that becomes a business, eventually that garden produces crop for you. But it’s not the niche that is the secret sauce. The niche is like the dog, you don’t just get a dog normally. Now, are there people who just get lucky and just get a dog that is really even tempered, and mellow, and chill, and easy to train? Yes, that is a thing.

And are there dogs that are really difficult and stubborn, and hard to train? My husband would say Finn was kind of one of those in his experience, so yes there are. There are certain dogs that have better temperaments or maybe are for whatever reason going to be a little bit easier to train than others. And there are going to be certain niches that are easier to succeed with than others. That is true.

But for the most part, just like most dogs fall kind of in the middle where they can be trained, not impossible, and it’s not going to be overnight, it’s going to require some attention, and consistency, and work, but you can do it. And that’s true with your niche too. Most niches are going to work if you work them, but you’re going to have to be patient. You’re going to have to be consistent. You’re going to have to try a bunch of things. You are going to make the niche successful or not.

When you understand this you get out of the niche drama because you stop spending so long spinning on what’s the right one, what’s going to work, what feels like me? What am I going to not get sick of thinking and talking about? All of those questions are nonsense, they really are. What is a problem that exists in the world that I think I can help solve given my current training, and skills, and experience? What is a problem that people want help with, that people are willing to pay money for that I feel like I could help with? Go do that.

And it’s not your identity, it’s not what you have to do the rest of your life. It might morph, and change, and evolve, and grow. Okay, just pick something and go help. I’ll tell you, I all the time get new ideas. I’m kind of like, “If I were starting from scratch I could do that. If I were starting from scratch, I could do this.” And some of them just go on a document and will never do anything with them. Some of them eventually maybe I will go do something with. But the ideas don’t come from who do I feel like I am? How do I want people to know me?

I can’t make it about me, the ideas come from the outside world. This is what I see going on and I’m pretty sure I could help in that area. I’ve said this before but I feel like our teachers really need more support right now. I feel like there’s something that someone could do with teachers.

I know that mid-20s to early 30s, that age group needs help with dating, they do. They want to get married, most of them in that category, they want to get married and they don’t know how to date in a way that will lead to marriage and a lot of them are frustrated. And that’s a gross generalization but I think that there’s a way to build a business as an LDS dating coach that I could definitely do. I have enough experience, training, knowledge and skills that I could make a business go with that. Now, is that because I love dating and I love romantic comedy movies? No, it’s not about me.

It’s about this is a problem that aligns with some skills, and experience, and training, and knowledge that I have that would be kind of fun to play with. I could go build a business off of that. And would I do that forever? I don’t know, maybe. Maybe I’d love it and do it forever. Maybe it would grow and morph into something different. Pick something and go do it. I just gave you a couple of ideas. But stop thinking that you’re going to choose a magic niche that’s just going to work, you’re not.

You’re going to have to train that dog and then you’re going to end up with a cute puppy like Finn, so it will be worth it. Alright you guys, that’s what I have for you today. I will see you next Monday on another Entre-Talk episode, take care.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post Entre-Talk: Do I Have the Right Niche? appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Being present and in the moment, as we all know, is a peaceful way to live and it allows us to be the people we want to be. However, our world is filled with more and more compelling distractions and it’s getting increasingly harder to actually be present, so in this episode, I’m sharing three ways that you can be here now.

Whether it’s constant alerts on your phone, other people demanding your attention, or just your brain’s tendency to drift toward the past or catastrophize about the future, listen closely. These things are stopping you from being here now, but you have the ability to redirect your attention in any moment so you can be fully present and engaged when it serves you most.

Tune in this week to discover my tips for staying present and three things you can try right now so you can just be here now in the moment. I’m sharing how to be present, even when it’s a little uncomfortable, so you live the peaceful, faith-filled life we’re all looking for.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* All of the stuff that only serves as a distraction from you being here now. * Why just because someone or something can have your attention at any moment, it doesn’t mean they’re entitled to it. * How our brains freak out when we try to keep our focus on the present moment. * 3 strategies to be present in the moment, here, right now, no matter what’s distracting you.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 392, 3 Ways to Be Here Now.

Hey, everybody, welcome. How’s it going? Hope you’re having a great kickoff to 2023. And I want to talk to you about this idea of being present, being in the moment, being here now. We all know that that is a useful way to live. We’ve heard variations on this statement for a long time now. And I think we all understand that being present in the present is more peaceful, it makes us more the people that we want to be. And it’s increasingly more challenging to do as our world is filled with distractions.

And those distractions become more and more compelling and we become addicted to things like social media, and our phones, and constantly just so accessible to so many people. This is reminding me, I was driving my two youngest kids to school the other day and I plugged my phone into the car stereo so we could listen to music. and you know how if you have one of those little screens in your car sometimes it reads your phone. And so my son could suddenly see on the screen my notifications on my voicemails and things and my text messages.

And you know that little red bubble if you have an iPhone? So he said, “Mom, you have 202 un-listened to voicemails and you have 127 unread text messages. Is that true?” This is my son who’s nine years old, so he’s recently got an iPad. So now he’s understanding these notifications. And I laughed and I was like, “Yeah, that’s true.” Now, I know some of you, your skin is crawling as you hear me say that. But I said to him, “That’s nothing, let’s go to my email box, I have 36,239 unread emails.”

And again, this is not an example of stellar organization, but what I said to him was, “Oliver, here’s what you need to know. People think that because of the convenience of technology, because we are able to get a hold of someone or have someone’s attention in a moment’s notice that we should be able to. People think that they should be able to have my attention all the time and I just think that they’re wrong.” I just think that just because somebody wants to talk to me or tell me something or send me something doesn’t mean I should stop and listen.

And I’ll tell you what. I listen to the voicemails that matter. I read the text messages that matter. I even read the emails that matter but there are a whole bunch that don’t matter and guess who decides what matters? I do, my family matters, my close friends matter, my church calling matters, my clients matter. I pay attention to all of that stuff but all the other stuff doesn’t matter. And what I know is that all of that is a distraction from me being here now.

If I’m constantly listening to every voicemail, or text message, or reading every email that comes in I’m going to miss out on my kids. I’m going to miss out on life. And so that’s number one, is you have to know that we are living in a world that thinks that anyone who wants it should be able to get our attention at any moment and I think they’re wrong. I don’t think anyone should. But I’m going to give you three strategies because be here now, be present, be in the moment sounds like a lovely thing but most people are like, “How do I do that?”

When there are distractions, when our brains tend to wander, even when it’s not somebody else trying to take our time and attention, our brains tend to wander to the past or the present, that is the easiest thing for our brains to do and it’s tempting to do. It feels useful and justified but it takes us away from the present moment. Here are three strategies that I like.

Number one, engage your senses, so here’s what I mean. I’ve had this situation where I’m driving on icy roads and I need to be here now but my brain is starting to freak out. It’s like, “What if we slide off the road? What if we die? What if we get into an accident? What if another car slides into us?” What if, what if, what if. It’s starting to run away to the future. And you’ll know you’re running away to the future any time you feel fear my friends, worry and fear are always about the future. And that’s not the only time you’re running to the future but it’s definitely an indicator that you are.

So what I like to do is choose to be here now in that moment, you what I do? I stop and I notice what do I see in front of me. Our sight is one of our senses. What do I see? I see a car that’s working perfectly well. I see lights here on the interior of the car and if it’s at night, exterior of the car. I see whoever’s sitting next to me in the car. I see the road. I see trees. I see traffic lights or stop signs. I see grass or snow, or whatever I see right here right now. Come back to what you see now. Stop seeing a future vision in your head, see what’s here now.

What do I hear right now? Do I hear sounds that I’ve been blocking out? And if you can just take in a sound it just brings you back to the present. Do you hear the sound of snow crunching under your tires? Is there music that you hear? Are there people in your car talking that you hear? What do you hear? Is there a fan humming? Can you hear the heater in your car blowing heat, blowing warm air through your car? What do you hear? What do you smell? Stop and take a big whiff of the air. What does it smell like? It might smell good, it might smell like old French fries that need to get cleaned out of the car, it doesn’t matter.

We’re not trying to have a necessarily pleasant experience, we’re just trying to come back to the present. You can’t smell something in the future. You can’t smell something in the past. You can’t see or hear something from the future or the past either. You can only have thoughts in your mind. That’s not your real senses, those are memories. Your actual senses can only engage in the present moment. That’s good to know. That will bring you back to the present.

Okay, number two, focus your thoughts on other people instead of on yourself. This is a good one in situations where you are being social, especially ones that bring up some social anxiety for you. Maybe you’re meeting new people or maybe you are just, I’ve honestly used this technique when I’m meeting new people and I’m feeling kind of nervous and awkward.

But I’ve also used it if I just have a lot of worry and fear, and anxiety going on in my life. And I want to minimize that by being more present. Then I just use the other people in my life to help me be present. I don’t mean use them in a negative abusive kind of way, taking advantage of them. I mean utilize the fact that there are people there in front of me and connect with other people and start thinking about them because it brings me back to the present.

So for example if I’m in a social setting and I’m meeting new people and I notice myself get worried and nervous, and awkward, or I’m distracted and I’m thinking about other things. I come back to who am I here with? Who am I talking to? Do I even know this person’s name? If not, do I want to ask them their name? And if so, what else might I discover about them? I wonder what’s going on for them. I wonder what keeps them up at night. I wonder what’s interesting about them. I wonder what they’re thinking right now. I wonder what made them choose those shoes today.

Just start thinking about other people. And what helps me to do this a lot and brings me right back into the present is to call them by name. So let’s say, again if I’m with a group of people and I know one of their names I might stop and say, I have a friend named Abby and I might say, “Okay, but Abby, tell me about this, or what’s going on with that, or did you see this thing, or what do you think about that, or how is this part of your life going?” And just calling her by name first of all gets her attention and brings me back to focusing on being here right now with the person I’m with.

I do this also when I’m just out running errands and living my life. I do this with strangers sometimes. I will ask people their names or nice thing is that a lot of in the grocery store or at the 7-Eleven or whatever, a lot of times they have a name tag on. And I will call the worker by name. I’ll say, “Hey, Carl, thanks. Hope you have a great day today.” And just saying their name, first of all, catches them off guard, brings them right back to the present and brings me right into the present and we just connect for just a moment.

And for that moment and actually for a little while before and a little while after, I’m suddenly not worried and afraid and distracted by my problems. I’m just right here right now. Because here’s what’s true, right here, right now we just have myself and Carl, and Carl’s helping me check out at the grocery store. He’s scanning my groceries and taking my money. And everything’s fine right now. And whatever my brain is really worried about isn’t even a problem right now. We just have me and another human being and that’s a magical thing, that’s a peaceful useful moment.

So focus on other people, calling them by name is a quick way to help you do that. And again I will ask people sometimes if it feels appropriate, if I’m just having a random conversation in line at the grocery store with a stranger, I might say, “What’s your name?” “Julia.” “Okay, Julia, listen, here is what I think.” And I might continue a conversation or I might say, “Julia, what do you think about this?” Even better if I can ask her.

Okay, third way to be here now is to identify the facts, identify the facts and separate out the facts from the thoughts. Hopefully, this is not the first time you’ve heard me teach this concept but if it is, the power in separating out facts from thoughts is it brings you back to the present moment to what is really true right now. The facts have nothing to do with what was true in the past or what might be true in the future. The facts just are the facts as they exist right now. And from there you become more empowered to choose how you’re going to feel and how you’re going to think about those facts.

So I just coached a woman a couple of hours ago on our VIP coaching call in Be Bold who is going through IVF treatment for the second or third time now to get pregnant. And she has a lot of fear and concern about whether or not that’s going to work out. And what we did, because her brain is going to the past about what’s happened in the past with her IVF and her attempts to have a baby. And then it goes to the future with what’s probably going to happen, or what might happen, or what might not happen.

And some of that, sometimes she has some really lovely peaceful thoughts about being with her baby in the future. But much of it is fear and worry, and concern. That’s what our brains do, our brains think it’s protective. So what we did, we just identified the facts. The facts are you have these things that are working for you. You have viable eggs. You have a doctor who has said, “We’re totally going to make sure you have a baby, don’t give up. I am confident we can help you have a baby.”

That is what your doctor said. Doctors don’t tend to just try to make you feel good. Their job is to give you what they think is an accurate assessment of your situation. She had a thought as we were coaching about her age, “Well, my age is working against me.” I’m like, okay, but that’s not a fact. The fact is you are whatever age you are. And what’s true right now, how do we be here now? We just get the facts. I am this age and there are many women this age who have babies. There are many women actually much older than me than this who have babies.

And my doctor has said, he or she is confident I can have a baby and I have eggs, and we have science, and we have the ability to do this. Those are the facts. Do you see how that just brings us to the present? The present actually feels a lot more optimistic. The facts actually feel, this is fascinating, the facts we always say are neutral. But the truth is the facts feel more optimistic in most cases because I don’t know about you, but my initial tendency is to want to create a positive story about it, especially when it’s not my situation.

In my own situation sometimes my brain wants to go right to the negative but in other people’s it’s so easy to see why that could be a really positive optimistic abundant full of hope kind of story. So this happens a lot in businesses too. People will say, “Well, I am losing money or I’m not breaking even, or this marketing thing isn’t working, or my business hasn’t succeeded yet, or I failed over and over again.” No, come on, let’s come back to the present. Let’s be here now. What are the facts? I’ve invested this much money. I’ve earned this much money, or I’ve earned zero money. I’ve invested this much money.

But here’s the truth, you have tried a bunch of things. I have taken these classes. I have learned these skills. I have met these people. I have tested these things. You could be proud of yourself about that but the facts are just the facts. And now what do we want to do going forward is optional, But being here now with your business or with your fertility plans allows you to get centered, and grounded, and get to that peaceful faith-filled place that we all talk about, that we all say we believe is available through Jesus Christ.

And yet so many of us don’t know how to do it. So that is not an all-inclusive list. If you have other ideas about how to be here now I would love to hear them and we will continue to share them. But the three that we covered today just by way of review, engage your senses, focus on other people, call them by name if possible and identify the facts, just pull the facts out from the thoughts and notice how you will feel more grounded and present,

Alright, thanks for joining me today on Better Than Happy. I love you all so much. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for rating and reviewing. Make sure you subscribe the podcast because as you may have seen we have bonus episodes on Entre Talk happening every Monday and I’d love to have you join me for those as well. So have a beautiful magical weekend. I’ll see you next time. Bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

The post 392. 3 Ways to Be Here Now appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Welcome to the first episode in a new series over here at Better Than Happy: Entre-Talk. These episodes are specifically for those of you who are or are interested in becoming entrepreneurs. I’ll be answering a different question in each episode, speaking to the topics that are most important to all the entrepreneurs listening, starting with a question that comes up all the time: are there too many coaches?

Whether you’re a life coach, health coach, energy coach, breathwork coach, or any other kind of coach, when you’re in this world, it can start to feel like everybody on the planet is a coach. It seems like everyone you speak to is getting certified or starting a coaching business. But the more important question here is, if there are a lot of coaches out there, what are you making it mean?

Tune in this week to discover whether there really are too many coaches in a saturated industry, or whether your brain is just pointing you in that direction. I’m discussing the psychology behind the thought that there are too many coaches, why I believe this thought isn’t true, and how to question yourself so you can decide if you really think it’s true or not.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Some of the reasons your brain is going to this idea that there are too many coaches. * Why I don’t believe there are too many coaches. * The reasons we generally overestimate the number of coaches in the industry. * Why some certified coaches haven’t succeeded in their businesses… yet. * How to question yourself with a wider view, so you can decide if you truly believe there are too many coaches. * Why I believe we actually need more coaches in the world.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * The Life Coach School * Kris Plachy * Kim Giles * Choosing Clarity: The Path to Fearlessness by Kim Giles * Molly Claire * Aimee Gianni

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, Entre-Talk: Are There Too Many Coaches?

Hey, everybody, welcome to the first of a new series I’m doing here in Better Than Happy, when I say series I mean I intend to do this maybe forever. I don’t know, let’s just see. I probably shouldn’t commit to forever until I at least give it a try and make sure I can maintain the momentum and make sure that it’s helping all of you with your businesses. But my intention is to publish an Entre-Talk episode every Monday.

We will continue to do life coaching, talk about all the things I’ve been doing here on Better Than Happy for many years now, on Fridays those episodes will come out. But on Mondays I want to talk to my entrepreneur friends. That’s why I’m calling it Entre-Talk. So my hope by labeling it Entre-Talk is that those of you who aren’t interested in hearing this part can tune those episodes out and you will still get all the goodness you’re used to from this podcast.

But we have many, many entrepreneurs, especially a lot of coaches who want to grow their businesses and I kind of experimented with Instagram Live and some other mediums and I haven’t found a platform that I like better than podcasting for getting some good free help out there to all of you. And so we’re going to just add it to the podcast.

So today I want to start by addressing this question, are there too many coaches? And my intention right now is that each episode will have a question, that will be the title, will be a question. And so I’m trying to choose questions that I get commonly and that I know are going to be useful to many of you. And if you’re not a coach but you’re interested in learning about business I think this will be relevant in a lot of different fields.

But this especially comes up a lot for my entrepreneur coaches, whether you’re a life coach, health coach, weight coach, energy coach, breath work coach, or teacher of some sort. But especially in the field of life coaching it starts to feel like at some point everybody is a coach. So can you relate to this, tell me? Does it feel like every time you turn around somebody else is telling you that they’re getting certified, that they’re going to The Life Coach School or whatever coaching program to get trained, or certified, or become a coach? And if so, what do you make that mean?

Because usually when people say to me, “Gosh, it seems like everyone’s a coach, it seems like we have so many life coaches, isn’t this becoming a saturated industry? I feel like people are saying that not in a good way, especially if they’re a coach. They’re saying it out of scarcity.

They’re saying, “Doesn’t it seem like there’s not enough business for all of us? Are we really all going to be able to be successful if there’s so many of us? And do people really need coaching? And am I really going to be able to serve, and help, and find the success I want if everybody is trying to do it?” And so there’s a couple of things I want to dive into here. I want to start by telling you a story. Maybe you’ve heard this story before but it’s the story of how I first got into coaching.

I first found coaching through my corporate job, my now good friend and at the time a director in our company, Kris Plachy introduced me to the model through our company. She was a coach there, a leadership coach and I got to do a little bit of leadership coaching as well. So I learned the model from her. I learned about Brooke Castillo and her work from Kris Plachy. And I started following Brooke Castillo’s blog, that’s how long ago this was. She did not have a podcast. Podcasting wasn’t very popular at the time. I started following her blog and I read her book, Self-coaching 101.

And I ate it all up, all of the content that Brooke was teaching I loved. And that of course led me down a rabbit hole of studying other people who teach self-help and thought work in what we might call coaching. And all of it felt really powerful to me, so much so that when I was like, go from that corporate job, and feeling kind of lost I had no idea, am I going to go get another job. That didn’t kind of feel like the right move, but also being a stay at home mom, felt scary and not ideal for me.

And so the only thing that I knew was that I was drawn to the things I had learned from Brooke Castillo. And that she had a coach training program and it happened to be right down the street from my house basically and I was going to go to that. So I made that decision and I went through coach training in 2014. Now, I do want to say that at this time I was not aware of any other, and I am pretty sure that at this point there were no other LDS life coaches that had been certified at The Life Coach School. Life Coach School was much smaller at the time, just a handful of coaches.

And this part of me, I should say before I even signed up for coach training and was drawn to Brooke’s work and considered going through it. Part of me thought, maybe that doesn’t jive with my faith. Maybe that’s not something that we do as members of the church. Maybe that’s, I don’t know, in some way, contradictory. Even though I’d never heard anything that felt that way. None of the teachings or things that I’d learned felt contradictory to me. I couldn’t figure out why wasn’t this a more common thing amongst members of my faith?

And then one day I was at church and I overheard a woman talking to someone, she happened to be in the Stake Relief Society Presidency at the time and they were talking about speakers. And one of them said, “Yeah, I’ve reached out to”, I don’t even know what the woman’s name was. I didn’t know her but she named some woman. And she said, “I’m going to see if she’ll come and speak. She’s a life coach.” And my ears perked up like, wait, what, there’s somebody in our stake who’s a life coach and that’s okay?

I know this sounds kind of ridiculous but this is, I’m just being honest about where my head was at. And I thought, maybe it is okay. Maybe coaching doesn’t go against our religion. It sounds so funny now when I say it out loud. And anyway, I went home and I got on the internet, where you go to get good information. And I Googled LDS life coaches. So I thought maybe there are some people out there who are coaches who are members of my faith. Maybe those two things can go together.

And when I Googled LDS life coach I found Kim Giles. Anybody know Kim Giles? I love Kim Giles, to this day. I don’t really know her very well. She came on the podcast once many years ago but otherwise I have not really worked closely with Kim Giles. But I still am so appreciative to Kim Giles and love her for leading the way because when I discovered that she was a life coach and she is a member of the LDS church, and she seemed to be doing really good work in the world.

It sort of flipped that switch in my brain that, yes this is a thing that is possible, and can be good, and can work even within my faith. I don’t have to abandon my religion in order to follow this thing. So Kim Giles, she has a great book, Choosing Clarity that I highly recommend. And as far as I can tell, I think she’s still running her coaching practice, Clarity Point Coaching. So a huge shout out to Kim Giles. I ended up going through training later that year, then at the Life Coach School.

Shortly after I went through training, to this day good friends, Molly Claire and Aimee Gianni came through The Life Coach school and they are both members of the LDS church. And so then there were three of us and that was kind of fun. And here’s the interesting thing. We were kind of the only ones in this sea of people who were teaching and learning awesome concepts but had a very irreverent way, let’s just say. And so we kind of stood out like we all do in the world.

But over the years we’ve all watched as hundreds, if not thousands of members of our church have gone through at The Life Coach School. And I know there are many other types of coaching and coaching training programs and schools out there. And so I’m sure there are many all over, but in my little world of The Life Coach School I’ve watched it grow tremendously, not only the number of coaches but the number that are sort of like me, members of my faith and living a similar life.

And so when you go through that, whether you’ve been a part of that story, maybe somewhere along the way you were one of those women or people, not just women, men also who have gone through the Life Coach School or you have a similar story from another type of coaching, or training, or a method of serving and helping people. And you’ve watched it snowball, you’ve watched it grow and then it starts to feel like everyone is a coach, everyone is doing this. And here’s what I want you to know.

I believe that that story is a scarcity story, of course, that is a lie but it’s also natural as a part of our psychology and a part of our identity to take that on and wonder and worry about it. Here’s why I think it’s a lie. The lie is that there are too many coaches and that it’s a saturated market. And again that’s true whether you’re a yoga teacher, an energy healer, a fitness coach or a life coach. I do not think we have too many of any of those things, any of the types of coaches in our world, here’s why. How many people do you know who have a life coach, how many off the top of your head?

How many people do you know? And we can define coaching any way you want to. I have a membership program where people come in and they get workshops and classes and they can come to coaching calls and they can get right in, help coaching and they can get coached, or they can learn from coaching. And that is a group coaching program. So there are other coaches who offer one-on-one coaching. And there’s a higher end type of coaching where you’re working more intensely and more intimately with a coach for probably a concentrated period of time.

So even if we define life coaching as being in a membership program like the one that I offer, some people in there have never been coached live but they are listening to coaching and they’re getting secondhand coaching if you will. How many people do you know who even have something like that, have a program or a place where they go regularly to maintain or strengthen their mental and emotional health?

Because in my world of coach friends, in my friends from The Life Coach School and obviously my clients. but in my little world it feels like a lot of people have a coach or in some kind of a program, or that there are a lot of coaches. But when I step out and look at my real life, when I look at the people I go to church with, the people I associate with through my kids, their friends, and their friends’ parents, and the people at my kids’ school, and the people in our neighborhood. Those people in my everyday world, how many of them have life coaches? Very few.

So you can ask yourself this question. How many people in your ward, pick a specific place, don’t keep your brain limited to the people you associate with regularly, Because those people I associate with regularly, a lot of them either are coaches or have coaches because I have reason to interact with people who are like me or doing similar work to me. But if I step back and take a more accurate assessment of my life and the world around me, how many of them have coaches? Not many, even in my own family, not many.

So here’s what I think. We have so much work to do. People need coaching and a lot of people don’t even understand that they need coaching. But when you approach your business in the right way, which isn’t who wants coaching but it’s would you like help with this particular problem? Would you like help achieving this particular result in your life? Then yes everybody has reason to have a coach. So we’ve got a lot of work to do. We could use a lot more coaches.

Now, here’s the other thing to keep in mind. While I see a lot of people getting certified as coaches, I don’t see very many people do much with it in terms of starting and growing a business. And many times that’s because they choose not to. Either they didn’t intend to in the first place or they start down that path and then decide it’s not a path they want to continue on and so they change course. I think that we highly underestimate how many people just change their minds. And I don’t think there’s any shame in that.

I think it’s perfectly fine to go through a certification or program thinking you’re going to want to build a business and then to decide you don’t want to build a business. I still don’t think that’s a waste of time. I think that you should go into it deciding whether or not that would be a waste of time because if you think it would be waste of time that’s kind of something I would question about whether you’re really going to go through that program. But if you tell yourself, I know there’s going to be a lot of learning, and a lot of personal growth and development.

That’s actually the main reason that I signed up for coach training, it was for my own development but at any rate you can decide going in that you want a business and you’re going to grow, and develop, and meet people, and learn things that will serve you the rest of your life in that program. And if at any point you decide you don’t want that business you’re not going to label it a waste of time or money. So that’s step number one, a lot of people choose to walk away for good reason.

And then there are some who are not able to succeed or this is what I think, they haven’t succeeded yet. So some people get frustrated, this is the difference between walking away because you decide I don’t want to do this, and getting frustrated, and discouraged and giving up. But then there’s the third category of people who just haven’t achieved success yet. So my point is that the people in those buckets, who either willingly walk away or haven’t achieved success yet, that’s the majority of the people.

The people who have really fast overnight success is few and far between or even the people who have what we might say is a very, whatever your mind expects is the reasonable amount of time to succeed. I want to increase that number, that is why I do business coaching. I want to help more entrepreneurs but especially coaches, I have a program where I’m coaching all kinds of entrepreneurs and it’s been amazing. And we’ve seen amazing changes happen in people’s businesses.

But I’m going to next year offer some things that are more specific to coaches because I feel called to help serve the world through coaching. And one way I do that is as a coach but another way I want to do that is by helping more coaches succeed in their businesses so they can go help more people. So my point is, it doesn’t matter if we have a whole bunch of people getting certified at whatever program or school you pay attention to. How many of them are putting in the work to build a business to actually take what they’ve learned and impact the world in a positive way?

That’s a pretty low percentage. So we need more. We need more people to succeed and we need more people to go through and learn the tools of coaching. Here is the other thing I want to point out whenever people say, “It just seems like there are so many coaches, everybody’s a coach these days.” And I say, “Why do we think this way about coaching and we never think this way about other industries like being a doctor, or being a dentist?”

If somebody decides to go to medical school and become a doctor we might say that that’s a saturated industry, medicine. Because when I say, “How many people do you know that have life coaches? Not very much. How many people do you know that have a doctor? Most everyone I know has a doctor or has been to the doctor at some point or sees the value and has maybe a primary care physician or what have you, most everyone. And yet we never say, “You’re going to be a doctor. I don’t know, I feel like everyone’s a doctor. I feel like we have enough doctors.” We don’t say that.

We’re like, “That’s a very wise career choice, you should be a doctor.” Interesting. So just be careful about, one, not assessing the world accurately because we only assess it based on our little bubble of what we know. But two, believing the scarcity lie that your brain wants to offer you, I don’t think we’re anywhere near saturated in coaching. And if you are a coach, if you are certified in some kind of helpful, useful method of serving people and you want to help people I want to help you to do that. So I hope you will keep tuning into these episodes.

One other thing I want to say about this. I mentioned that this is a scarcity story that’s a lie. And I mentioned briefly that it’s also part of our psychology and identity. So here’s what I mean by that. A part of our psychology is that we want to fit in with others. We want to behave, or act, or look etc., in such a way that we don’t stand out too much. We don’t like to be too much of a standout and at the same time another part of our psychology is to want to be unique and individual. So we don’t want to be too much like everyone else.

We don’t want to be just the same, we want to stand out a little bit. We want to be unique in some ways. So again when I first started not knowing any other LDS life coaches I didn’t want to be rejected from my community of people at church. I couldn’t figure out why there weren’t more people that I was aware of. And so I thought maybe there’s something wrong with it. And I don’t want to be rejected or be wrong in some way and so it made me hesitant. So until I found Kim Giles and discovered that no, this is fine and there are actually a handful of other people doing this then I decided it was safe to do.

I didn’t want to stand out too much, but as the community of coaches grows or as you become familiar with more or your world becomes more saturated with coaches then it’s easy to think, I don’t want to do that because everybody’s doing it. Everybody’s doing it, it’s why we like to name our kids names that seem uncommon except that we’re all choosing the same uncommon names. And so pretty soon your kid goes to school and there’s three other kids in their class with the same name.

And you’re like, “I remember when you were a baby and I named you that it sounded like such an uncommon name and now everybody chose that name.” It’s why we do that. We want to be somewhat unique and individual. So it’s okay that your brain is doing that is my point but you have to remember that you are unique first of all and that you can differentiate yourself. In fact that’s a really important part of having a successful business. Don’t try to create the exact same business that your friends have or that somebody else you know has.

Try to create a unique business, solve a unique problem and decide what makes you unique and different. That is part of effective marketing but it also will feel better to you from a psychology standpoint. We’ve got to make you the best version of you and serve the world in the best way that you can, not in the best way necessarily that even you found coaching. So that’s what I want to say about this topic, is everyone a coach? No, definitely not. Do we have too many coaches? No. Is the life coaching market saturated? Not even close.

I’ll leave you with this final thought because some of you have been listening to me and following me for a long time and you maybe came through my program and then went through coach training. And hopefully you’ve told all your friends and family about me and they all know me too. And I am always fascinated at how a lot of, again, people that I’m close to or coaches that I work closely with, or my clients will say, “Well, everybody already knows Jody Moore, so why would they want to come to my business?

Why wouldn’t they go through your program if that’s a possibility? And everybody already knows you so we’ve already soaked up all the possibility.” That’s what people are telling me. And I’m like, “I wish that were true. I wish everybody knew me and I which I was as big, and famous, and successful as you think I am.” That is not true even within the LDS church. If we say, “Well, okay, but everyone in our church has probably heard of you.” Even that I think is you’re probably highly overexaggerating how effective I’ve been at getting the message of coaching out to members of our church.

Because when I travel with my husband or my family we usually go to a sacrament meeting wherever we happen to be. And guess how many people when I go to church recognize me and come up and say, “Wait a second, are you Jody Moore?” Sometimes one person, most often nobody. If everybody’s heard of me pretty much in the church and I’ve already got the word out about coaching and mental health then when I travel and I’m not going to obscure places in the world either. I’m talking mostly in the United States in highly populated areas.

And when I go to a sacrament meeting, in other words mostly nobody knows me, occasionally one person. That’s it. You know what that means? I need help. Help me help the people, help me get the word out about mental and emotional health. We need more coaches. And if you aren’t a coach and you want to become one, do it. But I especially am talking to all of you coaches who aren’t building your businesses but secretly want to. Let’s go. Let’s go help the people.

Alright, thanks for joining me today. I’ll be back next Monday for another Entre-Talk episode. I’ll see you then.

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What do you do when you want something, but your spouse doesn’t want what you want? Whether this is something you want to buy, or a change you want to make in your life like moving somewhere new or having more kids, it’s natural to want your spouse to be on board, but what do you do if they’re not budging this time?

It’s very tempting during situations like these to move into resentment, frustration, and self-pity. However, this isn’t going to get you closer to what you want. Just doing the thing without their agreement leads down a bad road as well, so listen in to discover how to deal with this disagreement in a way that works for everyone involved.

You and your partner both want to feel good about a choice you’re making, so tune in this week because I’m sharing why what you and your husband want aren’t actually all that different, and how to figure out a solution that serves both you and your spouse when you come up against a difference in desire.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why resentment and frustration when a disagreement occurs can only lead to you and your spouse going to war. * How, though it seems you and your spouse have a big difference of opinion, what the two of you want isn’t truly that different. * The power of opening yourself up to the idea that you and your spouse don’t have to compromise on your desires. * An example from my own life of both me and my husband getting what we wanted in the end. * 3 specific areas you need to consider when you’re making decisions that affect other people in your life.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs!

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 391, When Your Husband Doesn’t Want What You Want.

Hi, everybody, welcome to the podcast. When your husband doesn’t want what you want, or when your wife doesn’t want what you want, or when your business partner doesn’t want what you want. That’s what we’re going to talk about today. And I’m very excited to talk to you about this topic. And I have a lot of thoughts and a lot to share with you on it. I want to make sure that you’re registered to join me for Get Your Goal because we start Monday the 23rd of January which is in a couple of days from when this episode goes live.

What this is, is a course that I put together for those of you who are coaching curious. There’s a shop here in Spokane, I just have to disclose this, a shop here in Spokane that is a marijuana dispensary and their logo says, ‘Guiding the Cannabis Curious’ which is such a brilliant way to market your cannabis shop. And that’s how I’m thinking about this workshop, it is for the coaching curious. So just like that cannabis curious store is people who are like, “I don’t know if I’m really the kind of person who takes cannabis on the regular. I don’t know if I want to be that person but I am kind of curious.”

Maybe that’s how you feel about coaching. You’re like, “I don’t know about coaching, I don’t know. I like this podcast.” Obviously you wouldn’t be listening to this podcast if you didn’t kind of like coaching. But I just don’t know that I’m the kind of person that needs that really. I don’t know that I need more than this. Or I don’t know if I want to open up about what’s going on for me to a coach but I’m kind of curious. Come to get your goal because you will see what it’s like to be coached.

And you can get coached, we always have a lot of people who want to get coaching. So come if you want to get coaching and raise your hand but you don’t have to be the one getting coached to see what it’s like to be coached, and to get the benefit of coaching. That’s the great thing about coaching so anyway head to jodymoore.com/intensive and join me there if you’re sort of curious about coaching.

Okay, I want to talk about what to do when you want something and your husband doesn’t want it and this might be literally something you want to buy. It might be a decision or a change that you want to make in your life like maybe you want to stop homeschooling and send the kids to public school and your husband doesn’t want you to. He wants you to keep homeschooling or maybe you want to move to a certain place, move to a different house, move to a new city.

Maybe you want to buy a new car, maybe you want to make a change like this, the kind of change that is a big enough change or purchase that for most of us we want to be onboard with our spouse. So what do you do if you don’t see eye to eye? I have coached a lot of people on these scenarios. I’ve coached a lot of people who are like, “I really want to have more kids, my spouse doesn’t want to.” Or, “I don’t want more kids and my spouse really wants them.” These kinds of big life changes, that need to be made as a couple and yet nobody’s budging. What do you do?

Well, let’s begin with what not to do. It is very tempting to move into resentment, and frustration, and self-pity, it’s very tempting to, I get it my friends but there’s no upside to that. Being frustrated and resentful at your spouse for not seeing it your way only causes us to dig our heels in and go to war. And maybe you’re not literally being rude, or fighting, or yelling, maybe you are but maybe you’re not. But going to war can look like a lot of things. Going to war basically though looks like I’m on one side and you’re on the other. And I’m the good guys and you’re the bad guys.

And we are at odds. And I’m going to try to conquer you. And that conquering might be trying to talk them into it, trying to sell them on it, trying to get them to see it your way. Now, what happens when we try to get someone to see something our way? They do the same thing. They dig their heels in and become even more justified in their opinion and position and start being on the lookout for more reasons why their version is correct, their decision, their choice, their desire is correct.

And now we have what we call a lose/lose situation because everybody’s getting further apart from one another instead of coming closer together, not to mention we’re getting more angry usually and resentful in the process. So try to avoid that. And I’m going to give you some alternatives but I just want to point out that while that feels so justified it ultimately doesn’t serve you because it’s not getting you what you want. It’s not going to get you closer to having what you want in your life, having that decision, having that result, having that change with peace.

The other thing I don’t love and sometimes maybe there is a time for this, maybe you put your foot down and say, “Forget it, I’m going to do what I want anyway.” But I don’t love that approach. I don’t love and I don’t think it’s what certainly my clients don’t ever want that, when they come to me. My guess, it’s not what any of you want to say, “Well, I’m going to do whatever I want and you’ll just have to deal with it.” In a sort of an argumentative contentious type of way. I don’t think that’s necessary.

And most people think those are the only two options and those are not the only two options, or I should say, most people think the third option is we just throw our hands up and go, “Well, forget it, I guess we’ll just go with what you want again.” And we constantly give in and we constantly sacrifice what we want. Those three options are not your only options but they’re the ones that most people go to without some thought and attention from a life coach. But you are listening to a life coach today so I want to give you some alternatives.

I want you to consider that what you want and what your spouse wants is not all that different even if let’s say, let’s just make up a scenario we can play with. Let’s say you want to spend this money to go on a vacation and your spouse doesn’t want to spend the money. Maybe your spouse (a) doesn’t want to spend the money and (b) doesn’t even like travelling, he doesn’t want to leave home. Let’s make that the scenario. I’ve coached on this before.

First of all what you want and what your spouse wants is not all that different, I’ll tell you why. You don’t just want to go on this vacation and spend the money on it. What you also want is for your spouse to be happy and feel good about the decisions that you’re making in your life with your money and in your family. How do I know you want that? Because if you didn’t you would just go with the alternative like well, I’m going on a trip, love you honey, I’ll see you later, I don’t care how you feel. You would just do it if you didn’t care how he felt.

So you want yes, you want to go on this trip but also you want your spouse to feel good about the decision and how you’re spending your money and what you’re doing and to enjoy, ideally would enjoy that time with you on the trip. So you do want your spouse to actually have what he or she wants or needs as well. Are you with me? Okay, so begin with that, begin by telling yourself the truth because when you recognize like, listen, I care about what the people I love think. I care about my spouse’s opinion. I care what my husband thinks about these decisions.

And I want to make decisions that we both feel good about, ideally we will make decisions most of the time and we both will feel good about the decisions. That’s not going to happen all of the time but that is what we ultimately want.

And then step two, and that is possible. That is possible, we can both feel like we’re getting our needs met. We can both feel like we’re able to live our lives in the way that we want to. What I want is to come closer to where he is, not dig my heels in and come closer and build a stronger case from my point, but to better understand what he wants because ultimately what I want is for us to both feel good about the choice. So I like to in this situation, I can stay there in my head pretty well because I believe that it’s possible.

I believe that even though there are many things that I feel one way about, my husband feels another. I know that in time we will come to an understanding. I know that we will be able to figure out a solution that serves both of us. And it might not happen right away. It might not happen even as quickly as I wish it would but at some point in our lives we will figure out how to accommodate both of our desires, especially if I know that my desire is good, and pure. And I love desires that I don’t even know where they came from.

There are certain things that just make me emotional and light me up inside when I think about them, certain cities to live in, or things to try, or places to go, or things to do that I just get this feeling of that feels like home to me. I feel called to it. And if my husband doesn’t feel called to it and it’s not a situation where I want to just be like, “See you, I feel called to live here.” Then I just trust that that desire that I have within me is good and my husband’s desires are good and not the same as mine.

And we will figure out at some point how to both create what we want and need in our lives together, and to honor each other, and to serve each other. And it doesn’t mean I’m giving up on my desires but I also can’t expect him to give up on his. And sometimes opening myself up to just there is a way though and I wonder what that way is, helps me to eventually find that way. Life sends us in the right direction.

And here’s the thing you’ve got to keep in mind too. The things that we think we desire sometimes we get so specific, sometimes we have to loosen our grip a little bit on the specificity of them. Like if I think I really want to live in a certain city, or I want to go on this vacation and spend this money, I might have to loosen my grip a little and recognize that what I really want is adventure, and excitement, and entertainment, and exploration, and a break from my routine.

And maybe that’s going to come through a vacation like this, or maybe I’m going to find it in another way because I also want my spouse to feel good about whatever decision we end up making. So loosen your grip on the specifics but decide that at some time in some way you’re going to figure out how to get exactly what you want, which is your needs and your spouse’s are met.

Okay, now, the other component that’s important to remember is that there are I think, three categories. Sometimes what I see happen is people who are constantly like, “Well, we just do that because that’s what he wants.” And they’re not considering their own desires enough and that’s not healthy either. I don’t want you digging your feet in and becoming really stubborn about what you want but I also don’t want you to ignore what you want. So I like to think about it as these three categories of things that I want to consider when I make decisions.

Because the world right now, a lot of people in the world anyway are teaching, no, you’ve got to honor your desires. You’ve got to live your truth. You do you. And it’s this sort of like who cares what anybody else thinks, I’m going to do what I want. And that discounts the other two categories. I do want you to consider what you think but I want you to remember there are two other things that matter as well. There are one I already talked about, what the people you love desire or the people that you care about, the people that are affected by this decision, what they desire.

But your desires matter as well and so does your value system. That is the third category. What are your values? Some people will describe that as what does God want for me. And if that’s helpful you can describe it that way. For me that sends me into a spin of confusion, and I don’t know, and all kinds of other nonsense. So I don’t really think about it that way. I think about it as does this align with my highest values, with who I want to be in the future with my highest self?

Because that’s what God wants for me ultimately is to become a higher version of me, a more divine version of me. That’s why I’m here on Earth I believe. So that’s the way I think about it. does this align with my highest self and with me becoming more Christlike? So those three things matter, what do the people I love desire, what do I desire and does this align with my highest value system, with my best values, period, and becoming my best self?

And when you consider all three of those things, then you realize that maybe this aligns with your values and you really desire it, but your spouse doesn’t, which means you’re choosing not to move forward with it right now. And you’ve got to remember that, you’ve got to take the ownership for your choice because you could at any time throw your hand up and say, “I’ve got to live my truth, sorry that you don’t like it.” And again maybe that’s appropriate at times but mostly it’s not.

Mostly it’s I want this and it aligns with my values but my spouse doesn’t want it and therefore I don’t choose it right now. I choose to open myself up to, I wonder what is the way that I will be able to pursue what I desire and I’ll be able to honor what my spouse wants. I wonder what, I wonder when, I wonder how. And be open to that. I’m going to give you a tiny example and I know some things are bigger than this. I know, again, some of you are trying to have more children, or make a move, or things like this that are, I’m not trying to diminish those decisions.

But I think an example is useful and years ago my daughter decided that she really wanted a cat. And I know about cats. I was raised with cats and so I said, “Yeah, I think we should get a cat.” And my husband’s like, “No, I don’t want a cat. Cats shed, so their hair is all over, they tear up the furniture. They’re just, like, no, we’re not getting a cat.” And I remember doing this work on myself to just not get resentful, and not dig my heels in, and not be mad. But I was just like, “We’re going to have a cat.”

And again, and I’m not going to go against my husband but I feel like at some point he’s going to come around. So I was just very patient but I didn’t let it die out. I brought it up from time to time. I talked about it with a lot of respect. I said, and by the way I don’t always do this. So I’m using this example but there are plenty of others where I haven’t done it well. I said, “Honey, I understand that you don’t want a cat, but I really think it might be a good thing for our kids and our family, and I think it could be fun to have a cat. Let’s talk about it again. Tell me why.”

Instead of let me tell you why we should have a cat I said, “Tell me what your concerns are.” And I didn’t just hear them so that I could counterargue with them. I heard them so that I could go, “Oh yeah, that makes sense, you know, I actually hadn’t even thought about that. I want to think about that one for a little bit and then let’s talk again.” And I totally heard him and validated where he was at. And after about 10 months of this at one point he finally decided, “Alright, let’s get a cat.” And now we have Oscar.

And I dare say Jake loves Oscar more than any of us, or at least he takes Oscar to the vet. He definitely loves Oscar, maybe as much as all of us. And it doesn’t always work out that way. That’s a nice example where in the end I got what I wanted. But I do find that either it ends up that way or what I want shifts and ends up aligning with what my husband want and I’m happy about it when I approach it this way. Because I, when I’m doing this well, open myself up to aligning with what he wants because that is ideal. If we both want the same things it just makes life a lot easier.

And sometimes I’m able to slowly nurture through a lot of respect and listening, my husband into wanting what I want. And other times I’m able to get myself over to wanting what he wants. And either way we end up in a win/win. I promise you this is available to you. I have other things in my life right now that I’m like, I kind of want this decision and my husband doesn’t and I’m just letting it be there and I’m not making him wrong in my mind and I’m not getting angry. I’m considering that actually even he’s right and maybe I do actually want what he wants.

But some days I want what I want, I’m not telling myself to just dismiss that either. And I find that to be a really peaceful place, really useful in my marriage and really useful in ultimately getting what we all want. Alright, good luck with this my friend. If you have questions on it, bring it to a coaching intensive. I would love to help you with it. Head to jodymoore.com/intensive. Alright, I’ll see you next time, take care.

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The post 391. When Your Husband Doesn’t Want What You Want appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I’ve noticed for myself, my clients, and even just the people in my life that sometimes we don’t want to hear about how we need to grow and evolve. Especially if we’re struggling with something, we don’t want to hear that it’s all a trial to help us grow. However, as a human being, not growing simply isn’t an option.

Whether or not you do anything to further your own growth, the world keeps on moving like a river with a strong current. Sometimes it moves fast, sometimes it’s slower, but it’s never stagnant, and staying still becomes exhausting. So, instead of clinging onto the riverbank, I’m showing you how to stop fighting and instead intentionally cooperate with growth.

Tune in this week to discover everything you need to know about cooperative growth. I’m showing you how to move from suffering to growth, two levels of intention you need to approach your growth with so you can move towards whatever it is you want to create in your life.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: How sometimes you’re not going to feel excited about growth and evolution, and that’s okay. * Why not growing isn’t an option to us as human beings. * How even the small annoyances or inconveniences are an opportunity for growth. * Why intentionality allows for new levels of growth. * What the two levels of intentional cooperative growth look like in practice. * Practical tips and strategies to start implementing this idea of cooperative growth, becoming the person you want* to be in this process.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Brooke Castillo

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 390, Cooperative Growth.

Hello, everybody, Happy 2023. What in the world? I remember my oldest son who is a junior in high school this year, when he started kindergarten. And his teachers, at the school they gave all the kindergartners t shirts that said ‘Class of 2024’. And I remember thinking, that is so far away. That sounded like a ridiculously high number. And it is creeping right up on us. Crazy. Crazy.

Okay, so we have so many fun things happening here at Jody Moore Coaching. I am so looking forward to this year. We had a great 2022, it was amazing and wonderful. I am so grateful for it but I am even more excited about some of the changes that we’re making this year, some of the enhancements and improvements that we’re making for all of you. We’re upleveling our free content in terms of the podcast. We’re starting a YouTube channel. We’re going to be doing a bunch of things just to serve people.

But we’re also really enhancing the things that we do for those of you that are clients in my programs. First of all, let me just speak to the podcast here. I’m going to keep doing the podcast every Friday like I have been for many years now. That’s not going away.

We are going to add though an additional episode every week, every Monday I will have an episode that is more specific to business. So if you want help building your business especially if you are some kind of coach, or teacher. And you want to grow, or scale, or start a coaching practice or some sort of online business like that. It’s going to be very relevant to you. Now, I will say that I don’t want you entrepreneurs only listening to the Monday episodes. You’ve got to listen to the Friday episodes as well because the mindset is a huge piece of it.

And I’m going to be incorporating both. I’m going to put mindset tools as well as specific tactics and strategies to help you build your businesses in those Monday episodes but make sure you listen to the Friday ones as well.

For those of you who aren’t interested in business obviously you can just tune out the Monday episodes but I think that you actually might also find them to be very interesting and relevant in other areas of your life. Because even if you’re not an entrepreneur, you still have goals and behaviors you want to change and all the things that we do as entrepreneurs will be relevant to you in other areas of your life. So if you’re interested, more podcasts coming your way in 2023.

The other thing that we’ve done is we have created a brand new website for Be Bold members. It is beautiful. It is so much easier to navigate. We’ve curated all of our past content, not all of it, all the good stuff, the best of the best we’ve taken and curated into a library by topic. So when you join Be Bold, if you’re struggling with stress and worry, and anxiety, there’s a whole section in the content library that has courses, and coaching, and everything you need on that.

If you want help with parenting, or you want help with your faith, or with relationships etc., we’ve curated content into a library that everybody gets right when they join Be Bold. We also have added a whole bunch of enhancements for our VIP members, and our elite members, extra content. We’re changing the way that we’re doing live events this year. Instead of having these big over the top events with thousands of people, I’m going to do multiple small events with my Be Bold members.

I want to hang out with you, and I want to connect with you, and I want to coach you live. And I want it to be an intimate enough setting that we can get to know each other and interact. And so we’re going to be doing people Be Bold Live. The first one starting in February. So those of you in Be Bold should have the details you need to know about that. Those are just a few of the things at the top of my mind that are coming to mind today that I want to share with you all, but more coming so stay tuned.

Last but not least, if you’re wanting some help from me and you’re considering maybe coming into one of my business programs or coming into Be Bold or something but you’re not sure. I want to invite you to a coaching intensive. The one that’s coming up next is happening in just a couple of weeks, it’s called Get Your Goal. We’re going to be focusing on goals and habit changes, and behavior changes because it is January and that seems to be on all of our minds.

And it’s a pretty phenomenal course that is only $19. I will also be talking to you about how to join Be Bold if you think maybe you want to and how to get your $19 applied right there to your first month in the membership. So it’s a great option if you’re considering coaching with me, or if you just want a little bite sized taste of coaching and a little extra motivation to get your new year’s goals off on the right foot. So that happens at jodymoore.com/intensive. All of you in Be Bold will be getting that for free. So you don’t have to sign up, but everybody else come and sign up.

Okay, so today I want to talk about cooperative growth because I sent out a Take Tuesday video. Some of you might have noticed. That’s another change we’ve made. We started making Take Tuesday be these short little one to two minute videos with inspirational messages that I read to you rather then you having to read it yourself. People are finding it to be really inspiring. So we’re going to keep doing that. One that I sent out just recently talked about, that not growing as human beings is not an option.

And the reason I even bring that up is because I notice for myself and my clients, and other people in my life, that sometimes we’re like. “You know what? I am sick of hearing about growth. Don’t talk to me about how I need to grow and evolve. Or when I’m in the middle of struggling with something I don’t want to hear, “Well, this is all for your growth, you know, we have to go through trials in order to grow. Sometimes we just do not want to hear that.

So when I start feeling that way, or if you’re feeling that way, I just want to mention, it’s okay to feel that way. At least I know I do at times and I don’t judge myself for it. But the truth is that not growing is not an option. Even if you didn’t do anything to try to further your own growth, life keeps on moving. In the Take Tuesday video that I put out, we compared it to a river, a river with a really strong current and rushing rapids that is moving sometimes slower and sometimes faster but stagnation is not an option.

The only way to stay stagnant would be to try to hold on to the side of the riverbank and then the river is going to try to pull you away and that’s going to get exhausting. And I think of that as sort of like when things feel really hard sometimes. Sometimes when things feel hard it’s because they are hard. There are things that any of us would find to be challenging. Maybe I know I’ve gone through times when I lost a job, or my husband lost a job, or somebody we love is sick or really struggling, or depressed.

Or during the pandemic there were lots of reasons for all of us to feel like life was hard. But other times it’s just the little nagging things, the little like this person wasn’t nice to me and my computer’s not working. And this person didn’t follow through on the thing they said they were going to do. And my teenager’s grumpy and the house is a mess. And it’s all those little things that you know don’t really matter. They’re not a big deal but they just sometimes really get on your nerves.

When those things are bothering me more than normal or I’m behaving in a way that doesn’t lead to what I want in my future, like maybe I’m lying around too much, I’m not getting any exercise, I’m overeating, I’m overindulging and overconsuming. And I’m not getting work done that I want to get done. I’m not staying on top of healthy habits, or healthy routines or pursuing the things I want to be pursuing in my life. Or maybe it’s my spiritual practice is suffering, what have you.

In any of those cases to me is an indicator that I’m holding on to the side of the riverbank. I’m just kind of like, “Can we just stop paddling? Can we just stop growing and could I just rest? And again, normal to feel that way but unfortunately that’s not even a thing. I just get more grumpy, more miserable, more irritated at all the little nonsense things going on around me. That is the level of growth that I call suffering. Suffering is part of our human condition. There will be again sometimes giant circumstances that we want to suffer through or that we just will suffer through.

And sometimes little small things that we will cause ourselves to suffer through even though there are other options. Suffering is level one of growth. Not growing is not an option, the world will keep moving, people will keeping being people. Things will change around us. Circumstances will change. The weather will change. The economy will change etc.

So if you’re in level one suffering then I want to offer to you the option of cooperating with growth, of letting go of the side of the riverbank and stop fighting the growth that is inevitable in our human condition. And cooperating with growth in a more intentional way. Getting into a boat and picking up some oars and deciding, well, if I’m going to move no matter what, if growth is the nature of my human condition then rather than grow through suffering I’m going to row these oars anyway. And I’m going to grow in a more intentional way.

I love the word ‘intentionality’. I love the idea that we can do things and just go through the motions because we have to or we think we’re supposed to, or we don’t want to get in trouble, or we don’t want to be judged etc. Or without even questioning, just because we’ve always done them and everyone we know does them. And so that’s just what we do, I guess. That’s one level of doing things. But there’s a higher level, a more intentional level of doing things which is what intentionality describes.

So for example let’s talk about doing the dishes for a minute because if you’ve got teenagers or kids at home like I do, you will notice that they don’t do the dishes with the same level of intentionality as you or I. They do the dishes because we tell them to, at least in my house, that’s the way it goes. We have this arrangement. I don’t know if this is the right way to do it so please don’t take this as good parenting. But I don’t have set chores for my kids.

We have this agreement that rather than me give them a list of things to do on Saturday morning, for us have some kind of a chore chart or wheel that we turn. They just agree to help out if I ask them for help. That seems to work well for me and for them. So I may say, “Hey, teenager”, to one of my teens, “Before you run off, could you please help do the dishes tonight?” And they will do the dishes because they don’t want to get in trouble. They don’t want to have a list of chores tomorrow morning. They don’t want to go to what they see a lot of their friends doing, which is regular chores.

And so they’re doing the dishes but they don’t have the same intentionality around it that I do. My intention is that the kitchen be cleaned up, that the kitchen looks nice, that it’s sanitary, that everything’s put away so that it’s a more peaceful environment so that we don’t have to hang out in the kitchen anymore. And when we wake up the next morning it will be clean and pleasant and we can use it to make breakfast or do whatever we want to do next. That’s my intention.

Their intention is just check the box to keep mom and dad happy so that they can say they’ve helped around the house. So this means when they do the dishes, they do, do the dishes but they often don’t wipe down the countertops. Or they don’t notice a couple of pots or pans on the stove behind them. Or they don’t wipe off the table, or notice that the tablecloth is stained and dirty, and needs to come off the table and we’re going to need to put a new one on and wipe the table down or something.

They’re just like, “What, that’s not dishes. I did the dishes. I put the dishes in the dishwasher. I rinsed them and put them in the dishwasher. What more do you want from me?” So intentionality is are you doing the dishes with the intentionality of having a clean beautiful kitchen in the end? Or are you just checking a box to see I did the dishes? Are you with me? Okay, now, I know that feels like a tangent but this is important because to stop letting go of the side of the riverbank. To move out of suffering into a more intentional cooperative form of growth you have to do it with some kind of intention.

And there are two levels of intention and I am going to encourage you to aim for the higher level but sometimes we have to start at this lower level and I think that’s okay too. I don’t want you to judge yourself if you’re starting from a lower level. Because if you’re going from suffering into intention you may have to go a little bit slowly through the steps. So the level above suffering is what I call end game intention.

You might decide, listen, I’m tired of being mad at my husband, and worried about my teenager, and angry at my mom and my neighbors. And unworried about the weather or whatever. I’m tired of that. I’m tired of suffering when I know in the grand scheme of things I’m fine. I’m safe. I have a roof over my head. I have food to eat. I have running water. I actually even have a cellphone. I actually have a really ideal life, I realize if I step back and look at it. So I’m done suffering.

I’m going to move into a level of intention that is seeking to achieve some kind of end game. What is the end game you want to achieve? What is the new circumstance or result you want to create in your life? It’s okay to choose to pursue something for the end game. It may be I want to start a business so that I can make money and have freedom and flexibility to work whatever hours I want, to run the business how I want and have some extra money for my family. There is nothing wrong with that. Be in your intention.

It may be, I want to lose some weight so that I can fit into the size of clothing that I believe I’m supposed to wear so that I can look like the person in my mind I am supposed to look like. So that I can be more confident. I don’t think that is wrong. I think that’s better than sitting around complaining about life is to decide you know what, I’m going to set a goal for myself to lose a little weight, or gain some muscle, or get healthy in whatever way you want to get healthy. There’s nothing wrong with an end game level of intention.

It may be that you want to pursue some kind of a hobby or project because you want to create something that you think would look pretty in your house, end game. We’re focusing on what we want in the end. This is better than staying in suffering. I would much rather you set some kind of a goal you might call it, to achieve, or create, or try, or learn something because you want to have what you think that will give you in the end. Totally fine to do that.

But the next level, the third level, the highest level, the most ideal level of cooperative growth which may be available to you right away. You may not have to go through end game. The third level is what I call becoming. If you can be operating from the intentionality of becoming you will have several benefits. First of all, you’re more likely to achieve the end result that you seek. And second of all, you will experience the benefits of it before you even get to the end.

When we are in an end game state of intentionality we are focused on the result we’re trying to create. In becoming we are already allowing ourselves the joy, the fulfilment, the happiness, the reward that we think we will have once we get to the end. And therefore our reason, our intentionality shifts away from being about the end game and shifts into becoming the person who has achieved the end game. And the becoming is just as enjoyable if not more so than the end game itself. Here’s what I mean.

Let’s use some of the examples I gave your earlier. Maybe I want to start my own business so that I can make money and have flexibility, and work from home, all those things I told you, that’s the end game and maybe I start out from there. But typically we find if somebody stays in end game intentionality then at some point they will quit or they will burn out, or just won’t be enjoyable. And those people are less likely to achieve success.

But if you can shift at some point out of end game intentionality into becoming intentionality then you stop thinking, once I have this many clients then I will feel like I’m a good enough coach. And you shift into what if I am a good enough coach? Or what if I just want to become an amazing coach? What if becoming an amazing coach or really good at marketing, or really good at sales, or understanding how to do webinars, or becoming a master of Facebook Ads, or whatever it is you think you need to do. What if becoming that thing would be actually kind of cool?

Kind of a pain, kind of challenging, kind of hard at times but also kind of cool, because I want to be a person who understands those things, who gains that skill, who becomes that type of person. It might be cool. It might be fun to learn. I might meet some cool people. I might understand some things about the world better. I’m going to do a lot of good along the way. And I’m going to develop and grow myself as a result. And that might be cool.

And it just so happens that becoming that person will also probably help me to get more clients, and help me to grow my business, and make the money, and have all the other benefits that I want to have. Do you see how the focus shifts away from the end game into the becoming part? If you’re trying to lose weight and you want to operate from a becoming level of intentionality, you have to understand that what you want ultimately is to become a person who is at peace around food, and a person who loves her body, and takes care of her body because she loves her body.

And a person who has self-discipline and self-respect, and follows through on commitments, and plans, and follows through on plans. All of those things are required. And wouldn’t being a person who does those things and being the person who has those skills etc., wouldn’t that be useful? To become that person, wouldn’t that serve you? And therefore if that is your reason for losing weight, it’s a much more useful reason and a much healthier ultimately reason than the end game of having the scale go down a few pounds. See what I’m saying?

So becoming intentionality is where things become the most fun because we don’t have to wait to get to the end game before we can be proud of ourselves. We don’t have to wait to get to the end game to be confident, to congratulate ourselves, to feel accomplished, to do good in the world, to serve others. None of that has to wait for anything outside of you to change. And when you learn to become as you pursue your goals, your end game, that is true growth, that is cooperative growth.

And what I find is that my focus on becoming means that I don’t have the bandwidth anymore to be annoyed at my teenager, I just don’t. It happens in moments but I don’t think about it that much. I don’t have that much time to think about the thoughts that annoy me about my teenager because my thoughts are focused on achieving this thing. I’m intentionally growing. I’m cooperating with the idea that I’m here to grow as a human being. And therefore I stop suffering so much and it’s just a lot more fun way to live your life.

Now, I’m going to give you a few things to try on, hopefully understanding this concept alone I think can be really helpful. I know for me it’s a really helpful way to just shift myself into a more cooperative form of growth. But I want to give you a few strategies to keep in mind, a few key things that for me have made a big difference, that moved me into that becoming level of intentionality.

So the first thing is to make peace with what is. Now, this is a tricky one because when it comes to the circumstances of our lives or the things that are challenging, I on this podcast I’m trying to speak in generalities so that it can apply to anyone in any situation listening, but that’s a tough thing to do. And there’s a huge spectrum of circumstances that everybody’s dealing with, I know, who listens to this podcast.

So when I say make peace with what is I just want to be clear that I’m not talking about anything at the extreme end of that spectrum where people are harming you or mistreating you. I’m not talking about make peace with people mistreating you, please don’t do that. Change the circumstance, get out of there if someone’s mistreating you. What I’m talking about is again all the little stuff that comes along. And sometimes some of it, some people even would classify as big stuff.

But make peace with what is means stop trying to control things that are outside of your control. Get some coaching, go to a therapist, wherever you want to get help get some help from someone to not feel like you’re at the effect of other people or other circumstances in your life that you can’t control. Learn to get to as peaceful of a place or to change your circumstance and to be happy where you are.

This is really important because if we’re not, if we don’t make peace with what is then we’re going to probably stay in that end game level of intentionality or stay in suffering. Because I think it’s pretty obvious in the suffering category. But in the end game category what we’re doing is we’re trying to change an end result so that then we can feel better, then we can feel happier.

Trying to lose weight so that I can feel good about myself is an end game level of intentionality. So if I want to shift out of that I have to work on feeling good about myself right now at my current weight, loving my body as it is. And that will shift me, I can still decide to lose weight if I want but it will shift me into a becoming level of intentionality. So when people say, “If you love yourself why would you change yourself?” Those people are stuck in end game intentionality.

They’re not realizing that you can love yourself and change yourself because change is the only option. Growth is the only option. And either I just let it happen without me cooperating or I cooperate and choose how I’m going to grow, choose how I’m going to change a little bit more. Some of it will always be outside of our control but where possible I want to have a say. I want to help direct my growth. Do you see what I’m saying? So you make peace with what is.

You make peace with your current relationships, with the people in your life, with your current money situation if this is about money, with your, again, your health if this is about health. You make some peace with what is. That level of peace again is going to be different for different people. For some of you, being really happy, and joyous, and celebrating your current circumstance is available. For others of you it’s just going to be getting to a more peaceful less resistant place than you are right now.

Once you make peace with what is then you choose to let go of some of what’s already working really well. This is the scariest step and sometimes my favorite step and also sometimes my least favorite step. It’s my favorite to think about and talk about but it’s the hardest one to implement in real life because we’re so conditioned to believe that we would only change something if we dislike it, if it’s not working, if we hate it.

And the truth is, sometimes in order to cooperatively grow, in order to evolve to the next level of yourself, or your habits, or your life, or your relationships you have to let go of some of the things. Not all of the things, but some of the things that you like, that are even working. Here’s what I mean. I’m going to make this a very obvious example but I hope that it will just put your head to work on the other examples of it in your life.

So I remember, I used to work in corporate and I remember when that job ended for me. I worked in corporate for many, many years. And there were a lot of things about saying goodbye to that part of my life that I was sad about but I knew that I was not meant to go get another job working in corporate. At this point I didn’t even know I was going to start my own coaching practice. I just didn’t feel called to go get a corporate job. I was sort of in limbo, like I don’t know, am I going to be a stay at home mom now?

I had registered for life coach training but I didn’t honestly have ambitions of becoming a life coach at that point. I was doing it more just for my own development. But I just felt like I’m not going to go get a full-time nine to five in an office desk traditional job right now. And so I had built up this wardrobe of really cute clothes that I wore to work when I worked in corporate, fancy heels and nice dresses, and slacks, and whatever. And I had a nice wardrobe. Some of those things I really liked even some of those clothes.

But I knew that in the position I was in, in my life now that I wanted to move forward. And I didn’t even know where I was going. I didn’t know what forward looked like but I knew that those clothes were probably not coming with me. And yet I loved those clothes. I thought they were cute. They looked good on my body, they still fit me, I felt good in those clothes, but I knew that if I held on to those clothes there was something about that that was going to be me holding on to the past.

And that holding on to that past was going to prevent me from finding my future, even though I had no idea what my future was and was kind of scary. And so I remember taking those clothes and piling them into my car and donating them. And feeling this odd sense of I’m sad to say goodbye to those clothes, and I love those clothes, but I’m willing to because I want to cooperate in my own growth. I want to be open to what is next.

And that is the third and final step I want to give you that will take you out of suffering or end game intentionality into a becoming level of intentionality. Is you have to open yourself up to what may be next. You don’t have to figure it out. You don’t have to go find it. You don’t have to research it on Google, or YouTube, or ask a bunch of people to tell you. That has for me never been the way anyway. The way is that I open myself up by letting go of things from my past. Some of those things are going to be things that are not working, not serving you anymore.

But many of them and where I find the true power come for myself is in letting go of things that I still love. And ideally like I said, we would clean up our thinking so that none of it is stuff that we hate. But simply letting go of things with love, with compassion, with peace opens up a space for new things to come into your world, into your life, into your awareness, into your ideas.

I love thinking about, and I’ve been thinking about this a lot more as my teacher, Brooke Castillo, has been teaching, last year she taught us a course. She taught a reinvention course, maybe some of you took that course from Brooke Castillo. But she’s been talking about reinventing yourself. And she’s always been a really amazing example of this. She does this intentional growth in a really extreme and beautiful way. She talked to us about this idea that our capacity is beyond what any of us are aware of.

We will never in this lifetime achieve our full capacity. We will never even hit the ceiling of what we are capable of. And isn’t it interesting to think about that, that our current abilities don’t come anywhere near our current capacity? How do we know what we have the capacity to do, what we are capable of? We only know by continuing to try new things and set bigger goals and believing that it’s possible. So just because you can’t do something right now doesn’t mean you don’t have the capacity for it.

You may not have the skill for it, you may not have the ability but you have amazing untapped capacity and so do I. And I wonder what that is. I wonder what we have the capacity to achieve. And I can’t open myself up to those new ideas, new ways, I can’t see new possibilities if I’m holding on to old things, old ways, old traditions. I do think that there’s a connection between the literal stuff in my house, in my life. That’s why I gave the example of clothes. I know that’s a very tangible example. It may not be tangible like that.

It may be strategies, or habits, or routines that you’re letting go of. But I do think that our tangible stuff is a reflection of what’s happening for us internally. And so for me sometimes to start with a tangible, to go through my house and really get rid of things, even things, I did this the other day. I was in my pantry and I was doing a little bit of decluttering and I would find something that I was like, “This owl cookie jar from West Elm that I love. It’s really pretty and simple. It’s just a pretty white owl shaped cookie jar. I love this cookie jar but I haven’t really used that cookie jar in years.

It’s been sitting in the pantry, and it’s interesting that my brain’s first thought is, I’m not going to get rid of this because I love it. And then I remind myself, but I can love it and get rid of it. I can love it and send it out into the world to somebody else that might actually use it and love it. And when you can love things and let them go then you open up, just like I open up a little bit of space in my pantry, you open up space in your life, and in your mind, and in your heart for what’s next, for new possibilities, that allow you to further explore your capacity.

We already know that you have the ability to do whatever you’re currently doing, to achieve whatever you’ve currently achieved and that’s good and fine. And I want you to be proud of that. I’m not trying to undermine what any of us have already done. I’m simply saying that to expand to something new we have to be willing to cooperate with our own growth. And we have to do it from a becoming level of intentionality. I want to become the next version of me. And the end result of what that will create will be extraordinary but I don’t even know what that is many times.

So at some point you stop focusing on that end game, you start focusing more on the becoming. Now, listen, I personally have not figured out how to stay in that state all the time. Sometimes I’ll be in this flow of becoming and then suddenly I get pulled back down into suffering. Maybe, again, maybe it’s a big circumstance that happens in my life that takes me that direction, maybe not. Maybe it’s inexplicable. Maybe it’s hormones. Maybe I’m premenopausal. Maybe it’s my diet or whatever. Maybe it’s the weather. I don’t know.

But what I’m saying is I don’t want you to use what I’m teaching you here to beat yourself up and say, “I know I’m doing it wrong.” You’re not doing it wrong. You just might be in a phase of suffering, or a phase of end game. And if you start by again, making peace with where you’re at, letting go of some of your winning strategies to make room for what’s next you can shift yourself into a higher level of intentionality. You can participate in your own growth in a cooperative way and I highly recommend that you do.

And again if you want some help doing this I would love to coach you personally. So make sure you come to a coaching intensive with me at jodymoore.com/intensive. Thanks for joining me today, everyone. I’ll see you next time. Bye bye.

Enjoy the Show?* Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts.

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Today, we’re talking about getting your own back. If you think back to your childhood, or to a time before you’d discovered thought work, I’m sure you can remember saying something like, “I just wish they had my back…” like other people are just supposed to get our backs. Of course, we love it when someone gets our back, but ultimately, you’re the one who should get your own back.

However, “get your own back” is a phrase that gets misinterpreted and misused. It doesn’t mean you’re getting defensive when someone disagrees with you, lets you down, or you feel like you’re in danger. Getting your own back requires you move closer to your true center, to love, and to kindness, and I’m showing you how to start this work on today’s episode.

Tune in this week to discover what it means to get your own back, what it doesn’t mean, and some tips for implementing this concept in a useful way in your own life. I’m sharing three strategies you can implement to start getting your own back, supporting yourself from a place of real love and positivity.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* A strategy for looking back at 2022 in a positive light. * What it means to get your own back, and what it definitely doesn’t mean. * Why your brain thinks focusing on what is wrong or bad is useful. * How focusing on everything negative in your life takes you away from your center and who you truly are. * Why it’s impossible to completely escape regret and disappointment, but you can minimize the long-term impact they have on you. * How to see the thoughts that are preventing you from showing up for yourself and getting your own back.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Gabby Bernstein * Brooke Castillo * A Course in Miracles by Helen Schuman

I’m Jody Moore, and this is Better Than Happy, episode 389, Get Your Own Back.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I am so delighted that you’re here today. I’m recording this episode just a couple of days before Christmas. It’s going to go live a few days after Christmas. So not too long of a window between one I’m recording, and you will be able to hear this unless you’re listening in the middle of June, which could be a thing too. So hello, wherever you are, whatever’s going on for you.

We are just trying to lay low. We’ve got that arctic storm that’s affecting so much of the country moving through our town today, and it’s very cold. So we’re just hanging out at home with the fireplace on and the Christmas music, and everybody’s in a pretty good mood so far today. That might change at any minute, but so far, it’s a good day. Hope it’s a good day wherever you are. I want to tell you because, by the time you listen to this episode, it will be either just before the New Year holiday or some time probably shortly after.

And I just want to mention to you that when you think about your year, if you’re the kind of person who likes to reflect back on your year. I want to give you a strategy to try out that has been really useful for me, which is to only think about your wins and successes. I don’t want you to spend any time thinking about where you dropped the ball, or didn’t follow through, or failed, or fell short. And here is the challenge with this. It’s really hard for our brains to think about our wins and successes. It requires prefrontal cortex energy.

It requires the part of your brain that needs a lot more fuel and energy to function. And so I don’t know about you, but when I say to myself, “I’m not going to think about my failures or where I dropped the ball. I’m only going to think about what did I achieve, what have I learned, or what people have I met, or in what way have I grown or accomplished something.” That is hard to think of. It requires that I sit down and focus and turn on a part of my brain. And so my brain’s like, “I don’t want to do that. It just sounds like too much work. Who cares?”

I don’t want to waste my energy on that is sort of the way the brain thinks about it. And yet, if I was like, let’s think about all the ways we fell short this year, all the goals we didn’t hit. It wouldn’t require prefrontal energy. My natural lower unconscious brain could come up with them very quickly. Isn’t that interesting to notice? Is that true for you, or is it just me? Tell me; I’m not sure. I am just noticing this myself because our failures or shortcomings, areas where things didn’t work out, we are already highly aware of.

Our brain already takes a really engraved note to anything that it thinks is dangerous, or wrong, or bad. And yet things that are good, or happy, or successful, or worked out, aren’t that relevant to us because they’re not a threat ultimately to our survival. And so the brain doesn’t like etch them in as strongly. Do you see what I’m saying? It’s sort of like we can forget about those things that worked because that’s great, but it doesn’t really matter.

But these things that didn’t work or these areas where you fell short, those things ultimately could be real problems, we should pay special attention. Your brain is just more aware of them than your wins. So I don’t like to reflect on my failures because I already know very well. Sometimes people are like, “Well, it’s useful to look back on where you fell short and take the lessons.” I’m like, “Guess what? I already have the lessons. I’ve already taken them. In fact, I can’t shed them sometimes, even when I want to.”

The learning, the awareness that that didn’t work, I didn’t follow through, or that thing didn’t play out how I thought it would, is already so strong in me, I don’t have to consciously call it up. Instead, when I focus on my failures, what I have to do is coach myself around not feeling a bunch of guilt and shame and beating myself up. So I don’t see any reason to look at the failures.

But if I can look at my successes and be proud of myself, and be grateful to my past self, and notice that I actually have accomplished and achieved way more than my brain thinks, I just sort of wrote it off and forgot about it. That could be useful. And from there, I’d like you to just focus on the future. Stop focusing on the past. So if you’re going to focus on the past, just focus on your wins, your successes, your achievements, your growth. If you can’t do that, if you’re like me and you’re like, “I don’t know. That kind of sounds overwhelming. I don’t know that I want to do that at all.”

Okay, that’s fine, too, just start focusing on the future then. Don’t focus on your failures from the past. There’s no reason to. You already have the lessons, I promise. Many of the lessons you’re not even consciously aware of, and you don’t need to be, but they’re there anyway. They’re wired in you. You will make different decisions because of the lessons that your brain already picked up. Okay, so that’s just what I wanted to say about focusing on your past and focusing on your future.

And I want to invite you to come to get your goal which is a coaching intensive happening in a couple of weeks where we’re going to go deeper on all of this, on how to do it, how to think about the future, how to create the future that you want even if you’ve never been able to do it before. Maybe you have a goal that you’ve attempted 75 times and failed. This is the year, my friends. I’m going to teach you what needs to change. So go to jodymoore.com/intensive, and for 19 bucks, you can join me for Get Your goal, and it’s going to be amazing. I’m excited to teach you that.

Okay, so today, we’re talking about getting your own back. This is a phrase; I don’t know where I first heard it. I don’t know where you first heard it. But every time I say it, people really latch onto it. I think there’s a part of us that feels the power and the truth in that we should be getting or our own backs because don’t we walk around saying when we’re younger or when we’re less aware anyway. We say things like, “I just wish she would get my back. I wish he, I wish my husband would get my back. I wish my best friend, I can’t believe she didn’t get my back.”

Other people are supposed to get our backs and I’m all for that. I like it when people get my back. But ultimately, I should be the one getting my back. I’m the one I can count on. And so I want to just speak to this today because I’ve had several thoughts about it lately. I’ve seen it come up a lot in coaching. I’ve seen it come up in my own life. And I want to clarify what it doesn’t mean because it’s one of those sayings that gets misinterpreted, I think, and misused. And I want to give you some tips and strategies for implementing it in a useful way in your life today.

So let us talk first about what it doesn’t mean. Get your own back doesn’t mean that you are putting your hand up and turning your head away in defensiveness to someone who disagrees with you or who you don’t think has your own back. It’s not defensive strategy. It’s not, well, forget you. I got my back, and I don’t care what you think, or I don’t need you to get my back because I’ve got my back, forget you. Do you see how that’s like a defensive way of using that phrase?

And I can see why it gets interpreted that way. That’s not how I think of it. It’s not what I want to recommend that you think of it because being on the defense puts us in a conflict situation, if you will, like Byron Katie says. Defense is the first act of war. So if I have to defend myself, I’m still telling my brain that there is danger out there. I’m simply going to defend myself from it. And I don’t find that to be a very useful way to think about the world. That the people and the things out there are dangerous, I need to defend myself. I don’t think that’s usually the case.

And here’s what I know for sure. We are not defensive, hateful, fearful people by nature. We are not defensive creatures; we are loving creatures. We were created by God, who is love. We were created by heavenly parents who are loving beings, and they made us loving. There’s a couple of phrases I want to highlight today from A Course in Miracles. I listened to recently Gabrielle Bernstein; I really like her stuff, if you’ve ever listened to Gabby.

And she cites A Course in Miracles a lot. And so the way they say it is, kindness made you kind. Isn’t that beautiful? Kindness made you kind. And I like to translate it into other words, too, like loving beings made us loving. We just are, we are Kind, we are loving. We are not defensive, conflict-evoking people naturally. And so when we move away from who we really are at our core, we will feel the dissonance of that in some way, sometimes, maybe it is necessary to defend yourself, but the majority of the time, not.

So speaking of Gabby, she told this story because the first way that we get our own backs is by becoming loving beings, by moving closer to our true center, to love, to kindness, to all of those Christlike or Godlike attributes that each of us has. So Gabby told this story about a client she worked with, high profile, very well-known person who started to get a lot of heat, you might say, on the internet. So she does work that is somewhat controversial and receives a lot of backlash as a result.

And so she ends up, her client has this team of people whose job it is to pay attention to all of the negative backlash coming her way, and to do what they can to manage it, remove people from their social media following, to defend themselves, to reply at hateful comments. It felt necessary to her to have this team of people watching out for their work in their organization in a defensive way.

And what Gabby said to her is, “What if we took that team of people and we changed them from being a defensive, if you will, and we turn them into a love army? And instead of their job being to go out and find people who dislike you, who are hating on you, who are criticizing you. What if their job was to go out and find people who love the work that you’re doing, who connect with and want to be a part of, and support the work you’re doing? And their job, instead of being defensive, is simply to love on all the good people who are trying to join your cause.”

So they turned their army into a love army. And the transformation for both obviously the people working for her, that was a huge change to their job description, probably a much-welcomed change. But also, the change for this woman, and her organization, and her cause was exponential. Instead of walking around trying to defend yourself from haters, whatever that looks like in your life, for most of us, we’re not high profile figures having to worry about that. But there may be certain people in your family and your social circle etc.

Instead of focusing on them, what if you focused on all of the people who support you and love you, and you turned around and loved them even better? I promise that is, first of all, the way that you get your own back with the people outside of you. You don’t put up a hand; you simply redirect your focus. Now, again, of course, there are extreme cases when boundaries may be necessary. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the majority of the time, your brain thinks focusing on what’s wrong or bad is useful, it is not. It takes you away from your center and from who you truly are.

So I want to give you a few other strategies here that will have to do with you supporting you. That’s what I wanted to say about the other people outside of you, some of them will support you, and agree with you, and adore you, and others of them will judge you, and disagree with you, and even have a lot of negative things to say. Focus on the ones who support you, become a love army of your own, for the people in your life. But in terms of your support of yourself, there’s three strategies here I want you to keep in mind.

Number one, you’re going to make decisions today based on what seems like the right move. Maybe it’s a decision about a parenting strategy with your child, whether or not to have a conversation with a teenager about something difficult, whether or not to go on a family trip, whether or not to pay for your child’s summer camp or to require that they pay for half. I could go on and on. These are the types of decisions I’m talking about. I’m not talking about a decision like, should I steal this thing from Target, or should I pay for it?

Those are pretty obvious right and wrong decisions. I’m talking about the kinds of decisions most of us have to make most of the time, which is what is the right way? I don’t know. I can see pros and cons to each. Or those of you that are entrepreneurs, should I try this marketing strategy or that one? Should I target this niche or that one? How much should I charge? What should I try? What should I do? Those types of decisions, you can just decide right now that no matter what, you will get your own back.

Here’s what I mean. Let’s say you decide to pay for your child’s summer camp and not require your child to pay for any of it. And there’s this little voice inside of you that’s like, “Maybe that’s the wrong choice. Maybe you’re spoiling that child. Maybe he or she is going to become entitled, or they’re not going to learn how to make money on their own or how to be independent. And maybe one day”, I don’t know about your brain, but mine can get very imaginative.

It’s just picturing them in a therapy session and the therapist is like, “Why do you think you have such a hard time believing in yourself?” And after they break it all down, it comes down to my mom never even gave me the chance, or encouraged me, or pushed me the way my friend’s moms did, to pay for my own summer camp. She enabled me. I think that is where it all began. Does your brain do this like mine? Please tell me I’m not the only one.

Okay, so if that were to happen even, whatever we are afraid of, worst case scenario, you can still decide right now that you will get your own back. That on that day when your child tells you, “Mom, this is what I discovered in therapy, I am a mess and it’s your fault.” Then I can still say to myself, “Alright, maybe that’s true. If you had made a different choice, maybe your child would be better off today and I love you anyway.” Because you made what seemed like the right choice. How could we have possibly known back then what the right choice is?

We had valid reasons for either one. And even if you don’t think you had valid reasons, even if you know, I was just scared, and I didn’t want to make the difficult choice, so I made the easier choice and I know the other one would have been right. You’re still allowed to get your own back. It sounds more like, I love you, I’ve got you, you did the best you could. You weren’t capable at that point. You didn’t have it in you to do better and it’s okay. And I love you just the same and I’m here for you and I’ve got you.

And we can do better now and there will be times when we won’t do better now and I will continue to get you, to support you, to love you, to nurture you, to pay attention to what you’re needing, to strengthen you, to help you. That’s called getting your own back. I talk to so many clients who are afraid to make decisions because they’re afraid of regretting it. And they’re afraid of being disappointed. And I don’t think that we get to escape those emotions in our human state completely, but we certainly can minimize their impact on us in the long run.

If I make a decision and learn later that making a different decision would have possibly most likely taken us in a different path that would have ended us up in a different place then I want to be disappointed, and I might even want to regret, but I don’t have to linger in that disappointment and regret and beat myself up and tell myself how could you. And spin out in it and stay stuck in it. I can say, “And I love me anyway. Some days I get it right and other days I get it wrong. What are you going to do?” And maybe I apologize. Maybe I need to apologize to someone, or to myself, etc.

I can do what I can to make it right. And I don’t have to beat myself up. I can still get my own back. That’s number one, decide right now not to shame your future self for what your current self is choosing. That is getting your own back.

Number two, stop it with the negative self-talk. I did a Take Tuesday. If you’re not getting my Take Tuesday messages I have turned them into little, they’re two minute or less videos and they’re pretty good, I’ve got to say. So make sure you’re subscribed to Take Tuesday. You can go to jodymoore.com and subscribe if you’re not. But anyway I did a Take Tuesday about this where I talked about talking negatively yourself, beating yourself up, you know the recurring thoughts. I’m not talking about the ones that are specific to a choice or something like we just talked about.

I’m talking about the ongoing recurring thoughts; what do yours sound like? Mine are like; you sound so dumb. You look dumb. And so usually calming myself dumb. You sound dumb. You look dumb. You are dumb. That was dumb. I don’t know why that’s the word of choice for my negative brain. What is yours? Is it, who do you think you are? You’ll never be able to do that. You’re not like other people. You’re not that kind of person. What is it? What is the negative self-talk? We usually all have a handful of thoughts that are just recurring that show up in all different areas.

And we don’t get to get rid of them altogether, but we can choose to redirect away from them to change the channel when they come on. And my Take Tuesday message was about that. Was about it really is a choice that you make. People say to me all the time, “I need to work on that. I need to work on not being so negative to myself.” And what I mentioned in Take Tuesday, “It’s not something you work on; it’s just a choice.”

So I want you to imagine that one of your children says to the other one, “You are so dumb. You look dumb today”, whatever your brain might say to you. Imagine one of your children says that to the other one. We don’t say, “Listen, you need to really work on not saying that.” We say, “No, that is not okay. We don’t talk to each other that way in our family.” And we just put our foot down. We’re like, That’s a no.” That’s what you do with yourself. It will still come up sometimes, at least for me it does.

I still have the thoughts that come up. But I’m just like, “No, we’re doing that today. We’re not going there today.” And then I can redirect away from it. We don’t want to focus on instead, I don’t even have to go to like, “You look beautiful today. You said an amazing, lovely, brilliant thing that just came out of your mouth.” No, I don’t try to do that. I just redirect away from it. It’s like. “You shouldn’t have said that. You sound dumb.” And I just go, “No, we’re not doing that.” And then I move on to whatever I want to do instead, to making breakfast for my kids, to recording this podcast for you.

So stop it with the negative self-talk; it’s a choice. Put your foot down and decide right now that that’s enough, that you’re not doing that to yourself anymore. You’re getting your own back. You’re loving you. The truth is, you do say dumb things, you do look dumb, at least, I’m talking to myself right now. And who cares? I love you anyway. We all do dumb things and look dumb at times. It’s just so irrelevant. It’s so not in important. Why do we expect that we should be brilliant, and amazing, and smart, and wise, and kind all the time? We’re not.

So it’s like, yes, it’s true, half the time you’re a mess and who cares? We’re not focusing on that. It’s irrelevant. And when it comes to your worth and your value, you’re just as valuable, and worthy, and whole. I’ve got you. I love you. I embrace all of you. That’s how stop with the negative self-talk by just choosing. I want to give this one other example.

I was listening sometime recently within the past couple of weeks to a coaching call, and Brooke Castillo was coaching. And Brooke was coaching this girl on this exact topic. This girl has all kinds of negative limiting thoughts about herself and her ability to grow her business in the way that she wants to. And after a while of coaching and discovering the thoughts. She has a lot of thoughts like, you’ll never be able to do it. You’ll never be successful; you’re not good enough, you’re not smart enough, thoughts like that.

And Brooke was offering to her this idea that she could just choose not to focus on those thoughts or not to allow those thoughts anymore. And the girl said, “I don’t know how. How do you do that?” And Brooke said, “Go ahead and say those things to me. The things that you say yourself, I want you to say it to me right now, tell me. Tell me that I am worthless, I’m not good enough, I’m never going to achieve my goals. Go ahead, tell me those things.”

And the girl just sat there for a minute until tears filled her eyes, and she started crying. And she said, “I can’t. I can’t say that to you.” And Brooke’s like, “Yeah, why not?” And she said, “Because I love you, and that’s so mean. I would never say that to you.” And it brought out the reality that it is just a choice. She would never say that to another person. She can choose to stop believing that when it comes up her own mind. She can just dismiss it as brain chatter, that’s all it is, brain chatter.

Alright, the third part of getting your own back is to tell other people what you want and need. Ask for the help that you want. In fact, I think we should be doing a lot more asking and requesting of each other for the help and support that we want and need. And when I teach, get your own back and you’re responsible for meeting your own needs, again it gets misinterpreted sometimes as that you shouldn’t ask other people. That’s not what I’m saying at all. Here’s what I’m saying.

Sometimes other people will be willing to meet your requests or they will be able to, or they will do it in the way that you hoped they would do it, in the way that you envisioned and that will be a lovely thing. And many other times, they either won’t do it right, even though they intend to and they think they are. They won’t do it the way that you had in mind, or they’ll just flat out forget that they agreed to do it, or they won’t even be willing in the first place. And in those cases, we’re not going to sit around and feel bad. We’re not going to wait to feel good and get our needs met.

We’re not going to count on other people for it. We’re going to know that we can do it and/or we can find someone else. So we’re not going to be mad when they don’t but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be reaching out to one another asking for help. And that might be literally asking for someone to do something. I am so guilty of – not guilty. I shouldn’t say guilty. I am so good at asking for help, I really am.

I’m good at asking for help from my husband, first of all. I ask him for all kinds of things, “Could you figure out what’s going on, on my computer? Could you help with this thing in the house? Could you figure out what needs to happen with the car, could you?” I ask him all day long for help and he is willing to do a lot of it. I am very fortunate that way. But you know what? Some of it he doesn’t do the way I would do it. He doesn’t do it in the timeline that I had in mind. He doesn’t do it in the way I envisioned, or he just flat out forgets or occasionally can’t or won’t do it.

And I do a pretty good job of managing my own emotions when that happens. I’m not perfect at it by any means, but I’ve gotten pretty good at it. And I think that’s why I’m not afraid to ask for his help. I’m also not asking for help anymore, I should say, after a lot of work. I’m not asking for help out of resentment, or frustration, or overwhelm, or poor me. I have to do everything, and this is so hard. That’s a totally different kind of asking for help than just like, “You know what would be lovely?” As if this thing could happen.

I love the idea that when we keep our heads in the right space, which, again, none of us are perfect at. But when we can stay in getting our own back when we already are confident in ourselves, we are way more effective at influencing those around us, we just are. We do it in a more loving, kind, generous way and we get a more loving, kind, generous response as a result, I promise that’s true.

Now, I want to take this to the next level even though. It doesn’t have to be a specific act of service that you’re asking for. It may just be what you need in terms of the conversation you’re having with someone. I’m starting to notice this everywhere around me right now. I don’t know why it’s come into my awareness. Maybe it’s important for us all to pay attention to. But I notice that in conversations around what are emotionally charged topics we tend to have ideas about how we think people should respond.

And they seem so obvious to us that if other people don’t respond that way, we go immediately to, “What’s the matter with them?” Why would you say that? Would you ever say that to someone in my situation?” We become offended, or hurt, or just shocked, or disgusted. So, for example, maybe you have a child going through something challenging. I had a conversation last year with a friend who said, “My child is struggling with his identity, his gender identity.”

And when you share something like that with people that a lot of people don’t have experience with, that is emotionally charged and it is politically charged. And there’s a lot of controversy and opinions around a topic like this; people don’t know what to say. I think that, in general, we’re all afraid of saying the wrong thing. The last thing we want to do is hurt or offend somebody. What we hope to do is say something comforting, but we usually don’t know what would be comforting to the person sharing the message.

So my friend was telling me this story, and she said, “I recently shared this with somebody who said to me, “That must be really hard for you.” And then my friend said, “Isn’t that a beautiful thing that she said? That was so amazing that she said that to me. And she’s one of the first people that’s said that to me.” And then my friend and I had this discussion around, “Yeah, that’s amazing. I’m so glad that she said something comforting.”

But all the people who have said whatever else they’ve said, who have said things like you know? “It will be fine in the end.” Or, “We need to embrace people regardless of their gender.” Or, “You should read this book or listen to this podcast.” Whatever else anyone has said, their hope and their intention is that they provide you comfort. It’s just that we don’t know what the other person wants to hear on that day about that topic.

But we could say to people, “This is what’s going on in my life. This is what’s going on with my child. And what would have really help me a lot is just a little bit of support around how hard this is for me.” We could just tell people what we want to hear. We could say, “What helps me the most right now is when people just validate my pain.” Wouldn’t that be amazing if a friend said to you, “I’m getting a divorce. And what’s the most supportive to me right now is for my friends to tell me that it’s okay and I’m going to be fine.”

And they’re like, “Wouldn’t that be great.” You’d be like, “Amazing. You know what? It is okay. And you are going to be fine. And I genuinely believe that and let me tell you why.” Or, “I’m getting a divorce and what I really need right now is someone to tell me it’s okay for me to be really mad about it.” And then you’d go, “You know what? It is okay for you to be mad about it and let me tell you why.” Wouldn’t that be amazing if we all just started telling each other, “This is what’s going on for me in my life and this is what would be most supportive to me. This is what would help me the most.”

That is getting your own back, my friends. Ask people for whatever kind of support you need. We can’t read each other’s minds. And even though we might think we know what that person is thinking or feeling, I think we’re wrong a lot more than we realize. And certainly, other people are not going to be able to read your mind. So don’t be afraid to ask for what you need. Get your own back. Become loving; first of all, stay in love. Don’t move into defensiveness, anger, resentment. That is not getting your own back. That is actually pulling you further away from who truly are.

Decide right now not to shame yourself or your current decisions. Stop with the negative self-talk, change the channel, enough is enough and finally, tell people what you need. Alright, thanks for joining me today. Have a beautiful, lovely New Year’s, and I’ll see you next time, bye bye.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

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All problems are thought problems. One of the biggest flaws of the human brain is that it thinks problems are real. We think of our problems as observations about what’s true in the world. This is completely normal for humans. However, a problem is not a problem until we think it’s a problem.

This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t allow yourself to think about a situation or circumstance as a problem. It’s so easy to take this principle and use it to manipulate yourself or other people, so in this episode, I’m doing my due diligence to bring your attention to the proper uses of the tools I teach you, especially this idea of real problems versus thought problems.

Tune in this week to discover the difference between real problems and thought problems. I’m sharing some specific circumstances that people consider to be problems, how all of these problems are a result of your thoughts, and I’m sharing how to see where you can start using your thoughts about a problem to your advantage.

If you want to gift your loved ones an amazing Christmas gift this year, I’ve got just the thing for you. Grab a one-year membership to Be Bold that will get activated right after Christmas, along with a booklet to wrap up and a printable letter! Click here for all the details and to grab it!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why nothing is a problem until you have a thought about it. * How the even physical pain isn’t a problem until you have a thought about it. * What gaslighting is and how it can be used to control, harm, or take advantage of someone. * How so many people take coaching tools and use them to gaslight or manipulate themselves. * Some examples of problems that only exist because of your thoughts about them. * How our thoughts have the power to make a real problem even more of a problem. * What you can do to see the possible upsides and downsides of keeping a problem thought in your brain.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Series: Gaslit * Movie: Gaslight

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 388, Real Problems Vs. Thought Problems.

Hey, everybody, thanks for joining me today. I’m excited to talk to you about this topic of real problems versus thought problems because the more you understand this concept the more empowered you will become in your life and in your experiences, your current experiences as well as whatever future experiences you want to create for yourself and in your life.

Before we dive into it I want to invite you to join me for a coaching intensive. I just want to be really transparent about this, what this is and why I have created it. Coaching has profoundly impacted my life and the lives of many, many other people that I know in such a mind blowing way, it makes us go, “Why didn’t someone tell me this sooner? Why didn’t I understand this earlier?” The one regret I hear people have is that they wish they would have dove in and experienced the benefits of coaching earlier on in their lives.

Yet it’s challenging to describe and so it’s easier to show you. And I don’t want anybody to come and sign up for coaching or join my coaching program if they don’t feel like the coaching resonates for them, and if it’s not going to be powerful in your life then I don’t want you to waste your time or money on it. So I have created these coaching intensives to be a low commitment, it’s a low financial commitment, a low time commitment, really easy and powerful way for you to experience coaching.

Think of it like the little bite sized sample of frozen yogurt so that you know whether or not you want to buy a full cup of that frozen yogurt. And I’ll tell you, I charge $19 for these coaching intensives and you can come and get coached yourself or you can just listen to other people get coached and you will still get the benefit of understanding what coaching is when you see it in a real life application like this for five days in a row. And if you can’t be there live, you can always watch the replay later on in that day.

But I charge $19 because I want you to show up, not for me. I want you to show up for yourself. I want you to put forth a little bit of effort because as amazing as coaching is it doesn’t work if you don’t put in a little bit of effort. And the $19, I know when I pay money for something then I tend to pay a little bit closer attention, take the time to put it in my schedule or to make sure that I watch the replay rather than thinking I’ll look at that one day later, which never comes.

But if you decide at the end of the five day coaching intensive that it’s powerful for you as I’m pretty confident you will and you want to come and join my coaching program which is called Be Bold. I’m going to tell you all about that program during the intensive. I’m going to tell you what it is, and what you’ll learn, and what you’ll gain if you come in there, and who it’s for and all of that good stuff, how it works. And we’ll let you just take your $19 and apply it towards your first month in Be Bold. So it’s a win all the way around.

And if you decide it’s not for you then it’s only $19 you’ve invested. And I’ve yet to have anybody say they regretted investing in that coaching intensive even if they didn’t come and join my coaching program after. So just want to be very clear that you should come and check it out. I am teaching in January a coaching intensive called Get Your Goal. And I do rotate the topics a little bit but they’re all going to be focused on really an introduction to coaching.

So those of you who are already in Be Bold, we’ll be posting it in there for you at no additional charge. But if you’re not and you want to just better understand coaching or better understand how to get your goal this year go to jodymoore.com/intensive.

Okay, I want to talk to you today about real problems versus thought problems because this is still something I see come up a lot for my clients and in my own brain. We think that problems are real, that they exist in the world, that they are just our observation of what’s true in the world. And it’s okay to think that, in fact you should think that at times. But the truth is a problem is not a problem until we think it’s a problem. So until I have the awareness of something happening it doesn’t just hurt me.

So for example if let’s say my husband who is as of the time I’m recording this podcast, he’s out of town on a fun guys’ ski trip. Let’s say he’s talking bad about me right now, he’s probably not because my husband doesn’t talk bad about anyone. But let’s just imagine. If he’s saying something negative about me and judging me, I’m not sitting at home suddenly feeling hurt because unless somehow it gets back to me that he said what he said I can’t have a thought about it.

If it does get back to me, once it lands in my brain and then I make it mean something and I have a thought about it that’s when I feel the hurt and pain. That’s how we know, somebody talking bad about you doesn’t hurt you. Your thoughts about it hurt you. So that’s a very simplified dumbed down version of just explaining what I mean when I say all problems are thought problems.

Even let’s take physical pain. People will say, “Well, what if somebody’s hitting me? That’s a problem right then in that moment.” And I say, “Yes, physical pain is something most of us don’t seek after.” But again there are times when even physical pain we don’t make a problem because of the way we’re thinking about it. For example people sign up to do things like participate in Iron Man triathlons, which I’ve never done and never plan to but my guess is there’s a lot of physical pain. And even though we don’t love physical pain we actually sometimes do.

We actually sometimes know that it means that we’re achieving something that we desire to achieve or we’re pushing ourselves or seeing what we’re capable of. So until I think, this is this is harmful, this is bad, it isn’t a problem. Now, that’s not to say that you shouldn’t think that things are problems, you should. So I’m going to dive into this deeper in just a minute. But I want to begin by explaining part of the reason I wanted to record this episode is because there are, there is the possibility, I should say that people can take what…

I’m not, by the way, the first by any means or the only one teaching this. What anybody teaches in the world of mindfulness, we can take that knowledge and use it to try to manipulate people and harm people. That can happen. People could take, even if you love what you learn on this podcast and you’re a fan of it, somebody could take that and now use it to manipulate you. This is what we call gaslighting.

Gaslighting comes originally from a film that was made in 1938 called Gaslit. And in this film, it’s a psychological thriller, I haven’t seen it, but this is what the description says, is that there’s a husband trying to steal from his wife. And so he is trying to make her think she’s crazy. So he will purposely turn the gas down, their house was lit by gas. And he will turn it down just a little bit every time he leaves so that she starts to imagine that when she’s not with her husband, or when he’s not home, the house is darker.

And when she asks him about it, he says, “No, what are you talking about? It’s just you, you’re imagining it.” So he uses the idea that our thoughts create our reality to try to trick her into believing she’s crazy. The house really is darker. He really did he literally turn down the gaslight and he tells her, “No, it’s just her.”

There’s another series on Netflix that came out this past year called Gaslit with Sean Penn and Julia Roberts, amazing series I highly recommend. It portrays the events leading up to the Watergate scandal called Gaslit because Julia Roberts’ character, Martha Mitchell believes that she knows what’s going on and is trying to get the truth out there. And they convince her that she’s crazy. They even start eventually giving her medication for her ‘mental illness’ which of course does have negative effects on her mental state. And it’s a pretty heartbreaking story.

So at any rate gaslighting is a technique that somebody uses in order to manipulate, or control, or harm, or take advantage of someone else. And I want to inform you a little bit today, or make sure I’m doing my due diligence anyway to bring your awareness to what is a proper use of the tools that I’m trying to teach you here. Now, more common and more likely even than somebody try to gaslight you is that you may take these tools and use them to gaslight yourself which I also do not want you to do.

Again, there is a chance someone else might try to do it but odds are much more likely that you’re going to be tempted to use what I’m teaching you to gaslight yourself, to convince yourself that you should just think differently. And I don’t want that either. There is many times when that’s going to be really harmful. Okay, so keep that in mind as we go through this episode.

Now, again, back to what I said in the beginning, all problems are only problems as soon as we have an awareness and a thought about what’s happening and this is really, really good to know. Here are a handful of examples that came to my mind as I was preparing this episode that I want to use to teach you this concept, the housing market. People love to talk about the housing market and whether or not it’s a good market, a slow market, a fast market, a hot market. I don’t know what the right adjectives are.

But we talk about the housing market as though it’s a circumstance. It’s not a circumstance. It’s a series of thoughts. There are specific circumstances going on within that story but for the most part the way we talk about the housing market is just a series of thoughts. It’s not a great market. It’s not a good time to buy a house or a bad time to buy a house, even interest rates are high is just a thought because it’s all relative.

How about any of you who are dating. If you are single and wanting to get married and your thought is there’s just no good guys out there, there’s no good men. That is not a fact. That is a series of thoughts. There may be specific facts within it like the exact number of single men in your city at any given moment could be a fact. But the facts are actually pretty minimal in this area. There’s mostly just thoughts and stories.

It’s good for you to know because if you’re single and you want to get married and you’re walking around thinking there are no good guys, it’s really hard to meet a nice guy, it’s hard, it’s not fun, whatever your thought is. Ultimately that’s going to show up in some way in your result line. You’re going to either find evidence that it’s true, this is why people tell me, “We have a lot of proof that it’s true.” I’m like, “Of course you do, that’s what brains do.” That’s what my brain does, it gathers proof, it gathers evidence that my thoughts are true.

And here’s what’s crazy about it, in many cases what we are doing is making the problem more of a problem. Isn’t that crazy to think about? We’re not making it easier. We’re not helping find a solution in most cases. We are making it more of a problem by walking around thinking there are no good guys to date, it’s really hard to meet a good guy. Guess what is going to happen in your life? You’re not very likely to meet a guy that you clique with. Even if you do meet someone that you’re interested in, your affect is going to be less likely to be attractive to that guy.

So thinking there are no good guys to date, there are no houses on the market, or houses are expensive, or it’s hard to get into a house, or whatever, dating market, housing market. You are going to contribute to that, even if it’s just filtering out possible solutions, not noticing possible guys to date, possible solutions to whatever is your situation in the housing market. You will filter out things that don’t support your current belief system.

Okay, here’s another example. I’m a procrastinator. Now, this can take lots of forms. It could be I’m a procrastinator, I’m a people pleaser, I am a worrier, I’m uptight about certain things, I’m overly emotional. Whatever you’re labeling yourself is just a label and what I love to do when I’m coaching clients is they’ll say to me, “I’m a procrastinator.” And they’ll start giving me an example like for example I was supposed to write a talk for church. And I kept telling myself I was going to do it early and then it turned out Saturday night at midnight is when I wrote that talk.

And what I always ask them is, “Okay, so you procrastinated in that example.” I mean even that’s a thought, some people would be like, “What are you talking about? I don’t write it till on the way to church.” So it’s still just a thought, but even if I give you that thought, behind that thought is a thought about your own behaviors like I shouldn’t do that, it would be better if I didn’t. And I love to ask my clients, “So what that you’re a procrastinator? Is this really a problem?” And the answer may be yes.

Even though it’s a thought, this is a problem in my life is a thought. This is not a problem in my life is a thought. And you may want to keep the thought, this is a problem in my life. But how do we know? We ask ourselves why? Why do I want to keep that thought? What’s the upside? There may be an upside. Here is in my belief usually the upside to keeping the thought, this is a problem is if it allows you then to redirect yourself to finding a solution then I’m in.

If you decide, this is making my life more challenging or it’s minimizing the experience I want to have in my life in some way. And now knowing that I’m labeling it a problem is going to allow me to shift into possible solutions to tell my brain, look for solutions, look for strategies, look for ways or not even always looking for solutions. Sometimes it’s just choosing to not be mad about not wanting to write the talk earlier. Sometimes it’s like what if we just get comfortable doing things we don’t want to do and we know that we’re not going to want to do them.

We expect that we’re not going to do them and we do them anyway, that could be a solution. So choosing to keep the label this is a problem is fine if you’re like, “This is going to then allow me to say let’s start finding a solution.” Or let’s contribute to a solution if this is a more of a global or a problem that’s bigger than just a personal problem. Let’s start contributing to the solution, then I’m in.

But if it doesn’t do that, again there’s no good guys to date, there’s no good houses on the market. I don’t find that in most cases to serve people. I find that to just discourage them, and overwhelm them, and cause them to stop trying, cause them to go on fewer dates, to look at fewer house, or to not list their house or whatever it is. So if it doesn’t have an upside you can decide that’s not even really a real thing. It’s all just a story in the end. It’s all just fabricated in our minds. And then we all look for proof that it’s true and we can make anything true in the end.

Let’s look at some more examples. How about your business situation, let’s talk about your niche. So for those of you that aren’t entrepreneurs or haven’t heard that term, a niche is just a specific problem for a specific group of people that you’re going to solve through your product or services in your business. Most everybody who teaches entrepreneurs teaches that it’s when you’re beginning anyway you need to have a narrow, you need to have a niche. You need to have a specific problem that you solve for a specific person in order to really get traction and be successful.

So then the question becomes, what is the right niche? What is the niche that is going to take off? What is the one that people are willing to pay money for that will help me be successful in my business and that I feel qualified to serve, and that I’m going to enjoy? What is the right niche? That’s a good niche is just a thought. My niche isn’t working is a thought. There’s no niche problem until you have the thought, this is not a good niche. And guess what? You can have that thought, you’re totally allowed to. Just make sure you like your reason.

And your reason might even just be, I’ve gone out and tried to market this niche and I’m not getting traction and so I don’t want to try anymore. I want to try a different one. Totally fine with that as long as you know that this niche won’t work is just a thought. It can still be a thought that you choose, you can choose to change direction. But I want you to be empowered with that knowledge because we don’t want to give more credit than is necessary to things outside of our control. This is true when you’re an entrepreneur too.

Here’s another one I hear from entrepreneurs a lot. My ad isn’t converting. My ad isn’t converting is actually a thought. I don’t even give people that as a fact. We can pull numbers. We can say, “I have put $100 into Facebook Ads. I’ve got zero clicks, and zero opt-ins, and zero sales.” And I’d say, “Okay, those are the facts, my ad isn’t converting is a thought. So just be careful about”, because again my ad isn’t converting makes the ad so powerful and it makes Facebook so powerful. And it all feels very confusing and discouraging, and overwhelming.

But I put in this much money, I got zero clicks, zero opt-ins, zero sales is a fact. And it’s just more neutral, it’s just math. So it’s not so overwhelming, it’s like, okay, well, then we’re going to have to change something. Let’s try something different. But the other thing I ask is, “Okay, why is that a problem? I put in $100, I got zero clicks, why is that a problem?” And when I ask my entrepreneurs that question a lot of them think what I’m saying is that they should think it’s not a problem. They should say, “Yeah, you’re right, so what, let’s move on.”

No, I’m not saying we shouldn’t decide it’s a problem. But is the answer, I knew I couldn’t be successful, this is never going to work. This is so hard. I’m not the kind of person who could do this. I don’t even know why I tried. Who do I think I am?” If that’s the answer to why this is a problem then we need to clean that up. but if the answer is because I know Facebook ads can convert well and I’m going to figure out how to make it convert well. What should we try next? Then I’m all in for labeling it as a problem.

There are many, many things that I want to label problems. I want to go, “That’s not going to work. We’re not going to keep doing that long-term. What are we going to do to remedy or solve for this problem?” Then we’re on to something. Are you with me? The why matters a lot. Why is this a problem? Let’s move it outside of business and let’s talk about your spouse.

Some people think they chose the wrong niche and other people think they chose the wrong husband. And again maybe you want to keep that thought. There are so many clients who I coach and we take a look at, first of all, do you understand that it’s just a thought, it’s just a story, I chose the wrong husband? There is no such thing as choosing the wrong husband, or the right husband or wife. That’s not a thing. Someone made that up one day.

Why are we considering keeping that thought if we’re going to consider keeping it? What is my reason? Is it because I am indulging in self-pity, and overwhelm, and I’m stuck in the maze of judgment, and blame, and also guilt and shame, and my brain just thinks that that’s reality? If so, I may want to question this story. But if the reason is I am not able to be my highest self in this relationship, and this relationship is complete and I think it’s time for me to move on. I think that is the right decision. And it’s scary to think about moving on but I think it’s the best thing I could do.

Then we have a different situation. We are going to focus on a solution. So the why matters tremendously if you’re going to keep something a problem. Now, here’s the other thing I want to say. Sometimes we realize there’s no upside to labeling this a problem. And again the brain is so tricky, I can’t emphasize this enough because what your brain will think just like all of our brains think is, no, I don’t want this to be a problem, it just is. I’m just telling you this is the reality, Jody, this is what’s true in the world.

And the way that I loosen that up for myself and my clients in these situations is I ask, “Okay, if it weren’t true, if it were really just a story in my head would that be good news? Is that possibly good news?” And they’d say, if they say to me, “Yeah, that would be amazing.” I say, “Okay, then let’s just experiment with it.” And we don’t have to get all the way to dropping the story altogether but sometimes we can shift our focus a little bit away from the problem, what our brains are labeling as a problem, to something that serves us a little bit better.

So for example let’s say your thought is that your mother-in-law hates you, let’s say daughter-in-law because the mother-in-law’s always feel picked on. But here’s what I want you to know, mother-in-law’s, we love you, I love you. I’m not picking on you. You’re not the ones that are difficult, it’s your daughters and your daughter-in-law’s, or your son and sons-in-laws. Anyone who had a mother-in-law problem has a them problem that they’re projecting on to a mother-in-law.

So anyway I’m going to change it up because sometimes the mother-in-law’s write to me and tell me they wish I would be nicer. And so let’s say that you think your daughter-in-law hates you. And you want to say to me, “No, this is a real problem, this isn’t a thought problem.” Then first of all, what we do is we back up from the situation, we get specific facts, maybe it’s that your daughter-in-law said, “I’m not ever going over to her house again.” She told her husband that, and he told you. Then that’s a fact, you’re turning it into she hates me.

And again maybe you have a dozen family members that are like, “Oh yeah, she’s told me before how much she can’t stand you.” I know you have a lot of evidence. I know you’re like, “This is not just a thought, this is a fact.” My point is even if you decide to keep that thought, focusing on it isn’t probably serving you in this situation. I can’t think of an upside to focusing on my daughter-in-law hates me. So we don’t have to shift all the way though, here’s my point, we don’t have to shift all the way from she hates me to she loves, or she hates me and that sucks to she hates me and I don’t care.

We don’t have to make a dramatic shift like that. We can just take a baby step, a little pivot away from she hates me to being a human is hard. Do you see how that still feels believable? It’s hard for her and it’s hard for me. She’s having a hard time being a human some days. I have a hard time being a human some days. It’s just a slight pivot away from a focus on something outside of our control into something that is within our control.

So I want you to try something this week. I want you to try this at the end of this episode. I want you to take an area of your life that you think is just you observing yourself, or somebody you love, or some outside force in the world. I gave you a few examples like that, outside things that are going on a little bit more globally or at least in your community etc. I want you to take something that you think is just real and true and back up from it a little bit. You don’t have to make yourself wrong about it. Don’t gaslight yourself about it and tell yourself that you’re crazy.

I’m not saying that you’re crazy. You have a valid reason for everything that you think but is it possible that you’ve been looking out for evidence that this is true for a long time and you’ve actually been inadvertently unintentionally contributing to the truth of it to making it true for you and your life anyway? And that you could be wrong about it? You could be wrong about it. Is it possible? Just allow yourself to try on that you could be wrong. And don’t forget, there’s this part of us that doesn’t like to be wrong. It’s going to resist it.

But there’s another part of you that knows it would be the best news ever if I were wrong. And entertain that part of you. Let that part of you have a voice at least as often as the other part of you that wants to be right. Give it space, give it a chance. Try letting that part of you out a little bit more. You don’t even have to tell anyone and you can go back to what you’re thinking already if you want at some point. But just this week pick one area and try believing that you’re wrong.

Notice the actual, once you get past the ego, notice the sense of relief, and joy, and hope that comes from knowing you could be wrong. It’s an amazing skill to develop. It will serve you in your life forever, I promise you. Alright, thanks for joining me today, everyone, have an amazing week and I’ll see you next time, bye bye.

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The post 388. Real Problems Vs. Thought Problems appeared first on Jody Moore.

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I’ve talked a lot about my mentors here on the show, but not my coach. I’ve worked with some people on specific issues before, but my main coach for many years has been one of the originators, Bev Aron, and I’m so excited to be introducing you to her in this episode.

I’m so lucky to be coached by Bev. She was one of the first coaches to be trained by Brooke Castillo and she’s considered by many to be the mother hen of The Life Coach School. She’s outrageously wise, a super-experienced coach, and as well as having a deep knowledge of coaching tools, she lives them every day, and she’s here to share her light and wisdom with you.

Tune in this week to meet my life coach, Bev Aron. We are discussing how Bev discovered coaching, how her coaching has developed over time, how she helps her clients through the healing process, and how she made a career she loves in the coaching world. Bev feels like a wise big sister to me, and I know you’re going to love her too.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why I’m such a huge fan of Bev Aron and why I love having her as my coach. * How Bev found the coaching world and decided to become a coach. * Why I think of Bev as being amazing at telling the truth while remaining kind and loving. * How to be direct, clear, and honest in your communication, even when you’re worried it might upset others. * Why loving yourself makes it so much easier to love the people around you. * The story of how Bev discovered you can think and feel anything you want to. * Where bad behavior comes from and why all human beings are inherently lovable. * How to decide what you’re going to feel in the future, and truly believe it. * Bev’s thoughts about her faith and how it fits into her coaching career and her life as a whole.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * Bev Aron: Website | YouTube | LinkedIn * Brooke Castillo * Kris Plachy * Martha Beck * Stephen Porges

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 387, Meet Jody’s Life Coach, Bev Aron.

Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited today to introduce you to my coach, Bev Aron. So I talk a lot about Brooke Castillo, I mention her as my teacher and coach, and she is. She’s been really key in teaching me the model and a lot of the tools that I use as a coach. But she has been a teacher and mentor to me, she hasn’t been my main coach. I’ve only been coached by Brooke a couple of times. My main coach and I’ve had several coaches. Kris Plachy has been a really instrumental coach to me.

And I have worked with other people on specific issues like emotional eating and things like that. But my main coach has been Bev Aron. And I feel so lucky to get to be coached by Bev. She continues to be the person that I usually go to if I need a coaching session. Bev Aron, you probably haven’t heard of her unless you’re a coach from the Life Coach School. If you’re a Life School coach, you know Bev Aron because she is one of the original coaches who was trained by Brooke. And she is sort of like the mother hen of The Life Coach School is what I like to think of her as.

She is just so wise and such an expert coach. She coaches Brooke Castillo a lot. She is correcting Brooke on how she’s using the model many times and Brooke defers to Bev Aron. That is how well she knows these tools. And even more impressive than how well she knows them is how she lives them. I can’t even describe it to you because it’s indescribable. So that’s why I invited Bev Aron to come on the podcast and share some of her light and wisdom with you. And I can’t wait for you to hear from her.

So before we dive in, if you haven’t got your annual pass, Christmas gift for your loved one and you want to get them an annual subscription to Be Bold, head to jodymoore.com/gift. And if you’re looking for something a little bit less spendy. Maybe you just want to take something, if you love coaching and you love what you’re learning here, and you want to take something to your favorite things party, let’s say. Then you can purchase people a ticket to my next coaching intensive. It’s a five day live with me on Zoom interactive event.

And we will be doing one in January called Get Your Goal. And it’s only 19 bucks. So buy it for all your girl friends or at least buy yourself one because you’ve got to come to get your goal. Again, if you’re in Be Bold, you’ll be getting Get Your Goal already. But if you want to buy one for your friends, I can’t think of a more favorite thing that I’d want to give away than life coaching. So if you feel that way, head to jodymoore.com/intensive.

Alright, let’s turn it over to my conversation with Bev Aron, here we go.

Jody: Hello my beautiful friend.

Bev: Hello.

Jody: How are you?

Bev: So good.

Jody: You look beautiful.

Bev: So excited to be here. My gosh, thank you.

Jody: Thank you for taking the time to come on. How’s life before we dive into it?

Bev: Life is amazing, yeah, all round, thankfully, amazing, amazing, amazing. What about you?

Jody: Amazing also, yes. Life is amazing. Is it getting cold there in Canada?

Bev: It snowed last night for the first time.

Jody: It’s that time.

Bev: It’s that time. Two weeks ago we were having lunch outside and were like, “Okay, global warming, we don’t hate you.”

Jody: We don’t always hate you.

Bev: We don’t always hate you. Yeah, we felt terrible.

Jody: Okay. Well, let’s just chat. I’m recording everything because otherwise I feel like we say the good stuff and then start recording. So I’m so thankful that you would take the time to come on. And I can’t believe I didn’t do this earlier because I talk about you, Bev Aron, I don’t know if you know this, all the time.

Bev: I love that you do.

Jody: I just am such a huge fan of yours. Let’s begin by just having you tell us a little bit about yourself personally. And then I want to dive into your work as a coach. But just give my audience a brief introduction to yourself if you wouldn’t mind.

Bev: I’m from South Africa originally. And I started out my life as a speech pathologist. About maybe 12 years ago I discovered coaching and I had lots of iterations in between, always wanting to find a way to serve [inaudible] healthcare and finding it just never felt right for me and I became a life coach. Personally, what can I tell you? I emigrated to Toronto 35 years ago. And I still live there.

Jody: What about kids?

Bev: I have four children and a brand new grandbaby.

Jody: Congratulations. I didn’t know that. That’s exciting.

Bev: [Crosstalk] three weeks old so that’s the most exciting.

Jody: So fun. How is your youngest child now?

Bev: My youngest is 18.

Jody: 18, okay. I remember talking to you just yesterday and you were talking about having a 14 year old. I guess that was four years ago.

Bev: I know, crazy, crazy, crazy.

Jody: Okay. So you’re about to be an empty nester.

Bev: Well, so my youngest is spending a year in Israel, studying. But my son, my second. He still lives at home with me. And right now we have a nephew living with us. So I keep thinking it’s going to be empty nest.

Jody: It’s not happening.

Bev: There’s still people.

Jody: How do you feel about that?

Bev: It’s awesome, honestly, it’s awesome. I feel like, this is what I feel like. I feel like I’m not designed to just have all this space. Every time someone goes, “Can I come and stay?” And I just think, so this is my growth. Apparently I was given this big, beautiful house for a reason. It’s not a house for two people, so thank you for the growth opportunities.

Jody: Okay. Well, let me just add, I know Bev Aron because you are one of the original Life Coach School coaches. And I’ll have you share a little bit more about that in a minute. I just want to say from my perspective that when I went through coach training which was eight and a half, almost nine years ago, isn’t that crazy? Bev was part of the process of how I became certified as a coach. So I was introduced to you first then. I don’t know if you remember that. It was a long time ago. You helped with my certification with reviewing my coaching calls and everything.

Bev: I hope I wasn’t mean to you. Was I mean?

Jody: You were very nice.

Bev: Good, okay.

Jody: You were very nice, yes. Are you kidding me? I’ve never seen you be mean. And we’re going to talk about this in a minute because you’re never mean but you are honest and direct. I think people think those two things, I think they think to be honest and direct you have to be mean. And you’re such a good example of how you don’t have to be mean. But before we get into that I just want to say that I have just so loved, first of all being a client of yours because you’ve been my coach throughout the years.

And also learning from you as a coach myself, sometimes when I’m training other coaches, I will say, “Okay, so there’s the Brooke”, not that you guys coach differently, but her energy sort of, her approach to coaching and the energy that she comes from. And then there’s the Bev Aron energy and you guys are using the same tools and accomplishing the same result. But because your personalities are so different, your coaching styles, I guess, I would say are so different.

I’m trying to help people find their own style. And a lot of similarities in what you do but also a lot of contrast in just your coaching style, would you agree with that?

Bev: Yes, I would. And that has been an evolution because of course like most of us, when I started out, like you say, I was original [inaudible], and I just tried to copy Brooke. And I did it. I was able to kind of get that energy going, sort of really faking it. And it took me some time to find how to blend my personality, what I feel is the safest way to coach, with Brooke’s tools. And so I think as coaches we can just give ourselves time to find that, who we are. It’s okay if they start off trying to copy Jody Moore because why wouldn’t they?

Jody: Right. That’s how we start out, emulating someone else, yeah. But then eventually, yeah. So tell us, how did you find coaching and what made you decide to become a coach and give us a little of that background if you wouldn’t mind?

Bev: Okay, yes. Weight has been an ongoing struggle for me since my teens. And I’m trying to think how old my nephew is now. So now he’s probably 26, so 13 years ago I was living in Toronto and most of my class all scattered throughout the world after school because of various things that were going on in South Africa. And I was going to San Diego for my nephew’s bar mitzvah. And of course I realized I have to lose a lot of weight because I will bump into many people from high school there. And so I go on [inaudible], I’m so sick of this, I’m so tired of this.

And then on the plane I open up my O magazine, do you remember O magazine? I don’t know if they still have it but it’s like a Bible. And Martha Beck had written her article about weight loss, relaxing into weight loss which at the time was foreign. And she said the sentence, “Brooke Castillo, the best weight loss coach I know says blah, blah, blah.” So I get off the plane, Google, Brooke Castillo and Martha in her marketing wisdom was of course offering a weight loss class taught by Brooke Castillo, so I signed up.

And I just remember, I was on the phone at the time, we didn’t even have Zoom then and Brooke started talking and it just felt like, this is home, this is truth. And so then I just followed her. She didn’t have a school yet, she was a coach. So I took every course she had. I was her probably most consistent student and then she opened up the school because we were begging her, a bunch of people, begging her and I just signed up for the first, I was probably the first person who signed up.

And then she taught us how to do it. I was like, “This is what I’m meant to do. This is just obvious, and natural, and easy.” And this is how I’m meant to serve.

Jody: It’s so good. And so today you coach who?

Bev: So I coach people who know this work and haven’t yet found the reliefs that they want. I think of myself as a tertiary level coach. So in medicine there’s primary care, secondary care, tertiary. You go learn stuff from Brooke, some podcasts and then you hire a coach. You do some groups. And if there’s still more, that’s who I love to coach.

Jody: So you do the deep stuff. You call yourself the deep dive coach sometimes.

Bev: Yes, correct.

Jody: And for anybody listening who might be new to this work, it’s all useful and important to start with the primary stuff is where we all begin. But there comes a point when, I always think of it as you find coaching and there’s some thoughts that are what I call low hanging fruit. It’s just like wait, I didn’t realize that was just a thought. I thought it was a fact. You’re telling me it’s not a fact. That’s such good news. And you just let go of it right away.

Bev: The best.

Jody: Yeah, and that’s so exciting. And that’s what’s so exciting about when you first learn the model in coaching. But after a while you pick the low hanging fruit and then you’ve got to climb higher up the tree. Eventually it just requires a more intensive form of coaching or more time maybe instead of letting go of it so quickly. Is that how you would describe it?

Bev: Yeah, I totally love it. I think also I love your analogy because I think as you go up the tree it becomes a little denser. And then sometimes the thoughts are not as easy to find. And so having support to find them is helpful and then sometimes when you go a little deeper you find some thinking or some beliefs and you let those go. And then half the branches just come tumbling down. And that I think becomes really feeling work for us.

Jody: Yes. One of the things also that I love about you is I feel like you’re like a big sister to me. You’re just a few years ahead of me in life but you’re so wise. And I always know that just in passing conversations that we have that I always just get so many nuggets of wisdom from you because you’re not only an amazing coach, but you do this work yourself on choosing how you’re going to think about your life and the world around you. And that’s very apparent to me in conversations with you.

So let’s go back to, because I want to share some of that, some of those nuggets of Bev Aron gold with my listeners here. I’ve noticed over the years as I’ve known you, like I said before, that you are very good at telling the truth. I’m sure you’re not perfect at not people pleasing but you’re much better at it than most people I know. And at the same time you are so kind and loving. So can you talk about, have you always been that way? And why is that you’re so good at just being honest and direct with people? And how do you do it with kindness? That was like five questions, did you get them all?

Bev: Okay, I love those. I’ll try. I haven’t always been that way. My family tell me I was very scary when we were growing up and intimidating. I remember being coached once and being offered this thought, that truth always feels best. I think it was about money, about being really scared to look at the numbers and you look and you’re like, “That’s what it is.” And so I think the way to do it from love is to really believing the truth is going to feel best to who I’m talking to.

So I think when we start to do it maybe with a bit of sort of defenses or anger is when we’re afraid of the response we’ll get and we preempt it. But in fact we could just as easily believe that the person really wants to hear the truth which I think we all do ultimately. And then offering it from that space of I love you so much that I’m willing to risk a little bit our relationship to offer it from you, always from this idea which is what I really believe. We’re all acting from our roots. So I’m telling you this and I am no better, no worse, 100% the same as you.

Jody: Let’s give an example, that might help. So we were in the Cayman Islands because we’re fancy like that. And we were actually there both of us. You were working a lot I was just helping a little bit at a Life Coach School event there, or class there. And I had my kids with me and they met you and we talked about meeting at the pool later that night for a night swim. And my kids wanted to go night swimming and you were like, “That sounds lovely. I want to go for a night swim.”

And then just before we were all meeting up I got a text from you that said, “I’m not coming, see you tomorrow.” And it was like, I love so much that Bev doesn’t make up a big lie, this is what I’m tempted to do like, “You know what? I’m just not feeling very well.” Or even give a bunch of – you’re just like, “I’m not coming, I’ll see you tomorrow.” Why do most of us think that we need to lie about it? And why do you do such a good job of just being direct and clear? Do you get what I’m saying?

Bev: Yes, I do. Okay, the first thing I think we should say is we are absolutely designed to not want to upset people. There’s this whole field of psychology, it’s called interpersonal neurobiology. And it studies relational biology, Stephen Porges, he’s one of the big people in it. And he says, “Connection is our biological imperative.” It’s not just like I was socialized to make Jody want to love me. We are biologically wired to want connection and our brains calm down when we say something.

It’s the other person looks like they’re very pleased with us. So I think it’s important to know that because we don’t want to sort of ridicule ourselves or criticize ourselves when we are concerned about not getting that pleased reaction.

Jody: That’s right. That’s right.

Bev: So I think one way that we support ourselves is we give ourselves a lot of positive regard. I don’t know if I always did but my inner narrative is very loving to myself. So it makes it easy. It doesn’t mean I don’t need connection, I absolutely do, for survival. But it’s easier for me, if I think someone will be upset with me, I know I will be very loving to myself. And then the way that I’m able to be so direct with you is the opposite of [inaudible], I always speak to the whole. When I talk to you or anybody, I’m talking to you the whole pure loving part of you that sees and knows everything.

So why would I need to make an excuse or [inaudible] protect you? You’re so whole and so able to do that for yourself. So that’s kind of always where I’m coming from.

Jody: That’s so interesting. So you’re saying, you give people the benefit of the doubt that they’re not just going to unnecessarily overreact and be unreasonable about it. And here’s what, again, not that there’s anything wrong with saying I don’t feel well or whatever. But I feel like I know what I’m getting with Bev Aron is real and it makes me feel closer to you and more connected to you. I don’t feel like you’re pretending. And I don’t want to be treated like I’m so delicate that you have to make up a story. And so it’s just so refreshing.

And I feel like that’s really hard especially for women to give themselves permission to be more honest and do less pretending. And you are so kind and loving. Do you think, Bev, I have this theory that we can’t love other people more than we love ourselves. And I wonder when I look at you, where you’ve done all this work to create this really kind inner voice and you’re so good at loving you. I feel like it makes you better at loving me, at loving everyone else around you. Do you find that to be true?

Bev: It makes sense because love is an emotion, it’s an experience. And so either we’re opening ourselves to it or we are shutting ourselves off from it. So I think it totally makes sense. And if I’m opening myself up to it, opening it means that I would experience it myself.

Jody: Yeah, that’s right.

Bev: And then yes, I do think so.

Jody: Yeah, that’s interesting, okay. So the other area I wanted to pick your brain about a little bit and again, I have all these distinct moments that stand out in my mind in my conversations with you which are not frequent. I don’t get to see you nearly often enough. And we don’t get to talk that long when we do see each other but there was a time when we were talking about our kids, this was probably several years ago. So I don’t know if you had married kids at this time or not. I certainly didn’t, I still don’t.

I was saying something about whoever they marry. And I just hope that I like whoever they marry. And you said, and I love how you always say these things so casually. You said, “Well, I just decided I already love all my future sons-in-laws and daughters-in-law.” I was like, “Wait a second, you can do that? You can just decide that?” So will you speak more to just the idea that you can decide things like that and how do you do that? And how do you believe it? That’s what people tell me, “That sounds nice but how do you believe that really?”

Bev: So this is what I love. One of my coaching epiphanies was, it must have been Brooke who said, “There’s no thought police.” And so I just love it. I can think whatever I want and no one, it still freaks me out, no one can come and take that thought out of my brain.

Jody: [Crosstalk].

Bev: Exactly. So even though it sounds ridiculous to go, “I love someone”, I’ve never met. It’s not ridiculous at all because we make up our thoughts about people we do know. I could meet you and just as easy decide that you’re amazing as you’re not. I just make it up. Then of course I keep making it true. I only see the things that I love. And I have interactions with you that make you more likely to be loving. So that’s one of the things that I do actually love about all future work.

Sometimes I just love to say in the past tense, “Oh my God, I just loved all my in-laws”, even though I don’t have them like my sons-in-laws.

Jody: That’s interesting.

Bev: [Inaudible] never met them yet. Apparently I’m allowed to because I said it and I’m still here and no one arrested me.

Jody: You didn’t get in trouble.

Bev: Exactly. The way we believe it is we know how things work me and you. A belief is something we just keep thinking, and we keep proving it true. So for example, my daughter brought home her future husband which it did help that I kind of chose him but I didn’t know him very well actually. I chose him for different reasons. And now my third child has a boyfriend. And I noticed that there was never that point where I evaluated them, what are they like? My brother would call me and go, “What’s he like? Tell me about him.”

And be like, “I don’t know. I love him.” Be like, “Is he this? Is he that?” I’m like, “I’m not really sure.” So we think we need to have some facts to decide how to feel about somebody but of course we don’t. We can love them or hate them no matter what the facts are. So I just took away all the facts, brought in the love, behaved super loving. I mean the truth is that it wasn’t immediately natural with my son-in-law that we just kind of connect. My daughter always jokes, that’s she’s like an interpreter, what [inaudible].

Because he makes a joke, I think he’s serious. I say something, he doesn’t understand me, it’s pretty kind of funny. And so now a couple of years later we talk to each other without an interpreter, [inaudible].

Jody: That’s fascinating.

Bev: I’m sure your listeners know the model, yes or no?

Jody: Yes.

Bev: Okay. I feel like the circumstance is son-in-law and the feeling is love because my thought is, I love him. It didn’t have to be [inaudible], has a degree or I don’t know.

Jody: Yeah. You don’t have to find something lovable.

Bev: No, there’s nothing that’s inherently lovable, humans, we are lovable, all of us.

Jody: Yeah, we all are but specific things like you said are just the stories we tell ourselves. So even somebody, I don’t know, I was working with a coach the other day and she was like, “I was getting frustrated with this client. How do I not get frustrated when they won’t take ownership?” And we talked about any ‘bad behavior’. And there wasn’t bad behavior from this client, just not really owning her own thoughts. And we talked about how any behavior that our brains label as bad or wrong is coming from pain.

Like you said, we’re operating from our wounds. And when you see it that way, when we see somebody in pain, we love them, immediately we’re naturally inclined to want to help one another. And so we remember that, all bad behavior’s coming from pain. All human beings are lovable.

Bev: Yeah, exactly.

Jody: Every time I talk about this though I get comments from people saying, “Okay, Jody, you’re harming people because there are people in abusive relationships or people being mistreated.” This isn’t gaslighting. This isn’t saying, “You’re making it all up in your head, you should stay in a situation where you’re being mistreated.” So would you speak to that a little bit? How do you speak to that?

Bev: Yes. Thank you for asking that because we never want to compound the pain by telling them they should be able to handle it, it’s neutral. It’s not neutral. And I think that first of all, yes, no one should stay in a situation, where I do think it’s true that the person who’s abusing is coming from pain, exactly what you said. It doesn’t mean you need to stay there and be the brunt of that pain, for sure. But let’s say you do leave, your experience will be so different if you hate them and you keep attacking them even in your mind.

Then if you leave and find a way to love the humanness in them. The way I think of it is like my beating heart to your beating heart. Can I just love that beating heart? It doesn’t mean I’m ever going to talk to you again. My whole experience of the rest of my life will be, I’ll just let go of all of that and just love that beating heart. Some people cannot do that and I don’t think that they need to. We don’t want to require of ourselves or our clients that they can find love. We have no idea what their trajectory is or whether they need to find love to heal. We make sure not to make it a prescription.

Jody: Yeah, good point, good point. It kind of goes back to too what you were saying earlier though of there’s no thought police. So I think there’s this assumption that if we’re going to love people then we would stay in that relationship or keep talking to them. I think people think that love is an action. And of course it impacts our actions. But you can love someone and never talk to them again. You can love someone who has passed on, who you literally couldn’t see or talk to again as long as you’re alive.

And you can decide, I don’t know about you but I have people from my past like the old boyfriends or something who I don’t talk to or see. I have no idea what they’re doing. But I decide in my head what they think of me today.

Bev: I love that.

Jody: I get to make it up. And I make up a story that serves me.

Bev: I love it.

Jody: People are looking for what’s true and sometimes that’s useful. But sometimes it’s more useful to just decide what the story’s going to be.

Bev: That’s our strength and our power because if I can make up any story of what that old boyfriend thinks of me I could just make up a story where they think I am the best thing that ever happened to them.

Jody: Yeah, the one that got away.

Bev: The same amount of sentences, she’s the best thing that ever happened, she’s the worst. We could do the same activity in our brain so we might as well.

Jody: So good. So good.

Bev: So good.

Jody: Okay. So I know when I ask you, how is life, how are you doing, that you’re always going to say, “It’s amazing.” And you genuinely mean it. But you have to get down at times or have negative emotion. Tell me your darkest secrets. Just kidding but tell me about, I mean you mentioned that food was a challenge for you at least at one point. What else is challenging for you and how do you cope in those situations when you’re struggling?

Bev: Yes, okay. So the one thing is I know I’ll always be on my own side. So even if I do something that I later wish I hadn’t done or I create a result I wish I hadn’t created, I’m always going to be on my own side. And being on my own side means I just get help. I have multiple coaches, some on call, some are regular. I don’t think I should do any of it on my own. My most recent one is there’s some challenges going on in my extended family. And I see myself very sort of pulled into the emotion of it and it was very harmful for me to lift myself out.

Just went and got some help with it. I got some coaching, messaged my energy healer, because sometimes it’s just a quick way to clear the energy. Then I can get the coaching. So yes, for sure, I do think I can rely on myself in general. If there’s two ways to look at it, mostly I look at it in a way that serves me just because that’s how my brain has been trained. Most of us who usually go the other way, this is how brains have been trained. But yeah, sometimes I’m irritated, sometimes I’m petty. My worst one is gossiping. I gossip and then I find [inaudible] people offering you thoughts.

They’re in your brain, you can’t not think them. And so then [inaudible] I’ll act on them irritatedly towards a person. But when I come back to myself is thank you for the reminder.

Jody: What do you mean by that?

Bev: Thank you for the reminder, thank you for the reminder that gossiping is just really not an activity that serves me. So I could spend days feeling really terrible about how I reacted. And I just tend not to. I’m just like, “Okay. Okay, yeah, human.”

Jody: Sometimes I coach people who say, “But how can I not feel bad about it?” It feels like we deserve some kind of punishment or something. And that if you just tell yourself, I’m not going to feel bad about it, I’m a human. That you’re letting yourself off the hook and you’re going to behave worse, which we know is not true but could you speak to that?

Bev: Very common. Kind of many of us sort of were raised on this idea that punishing yourself is the way to get yourself to do better. The evidence suggests the complete opposite. So I think it’s worth for those people who believe that, really going back and examining, when I was punished, what did I do? When I was loved, what did I do? What do I do now when I punish myself? If I punish myself I just hide. I go to bed, I overeat. I continue to be mean because I’m so embarrassed. So I’m even colder to that person.

And so it’s really, it’s just a matter of examining the beliefs. We all were offered so many beliefs when we weren’t in a position to choose them. And I think that’s one of them. You do something bad, you must be punished, that’s how you’ll get better. Now we get to examine them and really from a very rational kind of objective point of view, okay, I punished myself with this, what did I create after? Punished my child. What did they do after? And if it’s working go for it.

But I think the work that me and you do suggest to us that when we feel better is when we do better. And we don’t feel better after being punished, no one does.

Jody: Yeah, so good. Okay, final question I have and then any other thoughts that you want to share with us. But I have really appreciated watching how respectful you are and how devout you are towards your faith. We’re of different faiths but you’re such a good example to me of certain classes or events that you’ll opt out of if it interferes with a religious holiday or an observance that you want to keep. And that’s a challenging things to do.

We both have religions that don’t always fit into the world’s schedule. And so we can be viewed as odd and none of us want to be that person. Can you talk to me, I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this question but I’d love to hear your thoughts about your faith and how you fit it into your life. And again, I just wanted to let you know that I’ve observed that in you and I love that so much about you, and respect that about you.

Bev: Thank you. So that has been a journey for me and challenging. When the school started, the last coach school where we both trained there was zero awareness of anything to do with other religions. And so events were constantly being put on days when I should have been home. And sometimes I would kill myself to get there. I remember once we had a festival, our festivals end at sundown and there was an event I was asked to teach at the next morning and I twisted myself.

I flew to San Diego [inaudible] brother and sister-in-law because I found out there was a flight I could get overnight to get there. And it was holy crazy. And just so you know, I have been really scared in the past because I remember one time, mastermind’s a big event for us, was scheduled on our new year. I mean there was no way I could go. And so I in my bravery and magnificence that you think I always am, messaged Kara Loewentheil and said, “Did you see it’s on our new year?”

Jody: Because you’re both Jewish, yes.

Bev: We’re both Jewish and I was too scared to say it because I knew Kara would for sure say. So I was like, “You take care of this.” And she did. I have slowly become more so, I think as my journey has grown, my family and me have become more direct over the years. And I’ve just come to appreciate how much that gives me also kind of in coaching, how much that brings to me. And there’s been an openness in the world to celebrating more diversity and to being willing to be more open to it.

So I’ve been able to take advantage of that openness to step into it. And I guess lastly, being in somewhat of a sort of leadership position in this community, I want to make it easier for other minority religions to be able to speak up. So sometimes I invite myself to do the hard thing and speak openly about it. But I’m not always sure how safe it is.

Jody: Yeah, that’s amazing, I love that. And because it has done that for me. There’s certain days that I observe that I think I don’t want to be difficult. I’ll just go along with it, it’ll be fine. And then I think, well, Bev mentioned this thing and she’s opted out. And I could opt out and she’s still around. I don’t think anyone got, as far as I know, nobody got super mad at her. I could mention it. And so I have been the reciprocate of the benefit of you doing that. So I really appreciate that and I really respect that. It’s not an easy thing to do.

Bev: Thank you, yeah. I do find also, I don’t know if you find this but the more in touch with my faith I get, our faith believers are drawn to me and the more I love coaching them. So I find, interesting the more I sort of delve into the Jewish faith the more able I feel to coach just people who believe that there’s a god, and a system, and there’s things that we do in that system and we don’t. And I think the work that we do is so available in that.

Actually I was coaching today somebody though, I think our challenge is that we don’t want to use our belief to make us accept whatever and believe I just have to love whatever’s given to me. Because all coaching has to never feel like we’re making ourselves wrong I think. So today somebody was given a situation where she couldn’t have biological children. She was fostering, it was very hard for her. And what we were able to come to is I wish that I hadn’t been given this [inaudible], but I was.

And so I’m going to grow into it, I’m going to step up to the challenge. Sometimes I think our faith means we’re not supposed to say, “I wish I hadn’t been given that one.”

Jody: Yeah, I see what you’re saying.

Bev: But we do and that feels mean. It feels sort of self-negating, if I’m not allowed to say, “I really wish, I would have rather had my own biological child.”

Jody: Yeah, that’s true, I like that. I think the same can be said for even wanting more. If I want to make more money, or have more success, or more whatever that it must mean I’m not grateful. Sometimes in our faith tradition we take it to mean that when you can be grateful and appreciate what you have and want more. And don’t you think that’s part of the human condition to constantly want to see what we’re capable of, and what we can create, and what we can achieve and have in this life?

Bev: Oh my gosh, yes. I totally love it. Grateful, thankful and also grateful and thankful that there’s more I could do and that you created this world where there’s just no limitation to what I can do. Yes, oh my gosh, it’s so good, so good, so good.

Jody: Well, do you have any final thoughts or anything you want to share, Bev, before we wrap it up?

Bev: One thing may be helpful, just because we talked about people pleasing. And I had been thinking about it a little bit before is one thing we want to be careful of, sometimes we just hear phrases and then we think that’s a thing. So we might say, “I’m a people pleaser.” Or, “I’m an honest person.” But the truth is I am just none of those. I’m just sometimes somebody who says yes rather than no because I would like to have that experience of you being pleased with me.

And so I think for all of us in our own work and as coaches we want to always really be careful when we identify ourselves as anything other than a human trying to do the best we can with the wounds we have and our pure heart.

Jody: That’s such a good point and I think your really keen awareness of that is what makes you so good at the deep dive coaching that you do. Because sometimes I notice even with my clients in Be Bold after I’ve been teaching them for a long time or they’ve been listening to the podcast. And then they’re taking the very things I’ve taught them and they’re making them facts, like people pleasing for example. Where I’ll have someone say, “I buffer with food”, as though that’s a fact now, I buffer. But I buffer is not a fact. It’s still just a thought.

Even though it’s a thought I taught you, and it can be a useful way to bring awareness to yourself but it’s not intended to judge yourself or label yourself. And we do that, sometimes we use these very tools, I shouldn’t be thinking this to now create more problems. How do you help a client become aware without being ashamed of what their model is creating?

Bev: I just think we [inaudible], I think it’s such a relief. Somebody comes and go, “I’m a people pleaser.” And I just go, “No, you’re not, no such thing as a people pleaser.”

Jody: I love one thing you said, “I just don’t believe anything my clients say.” It’s like, I’m a people pleaser, you don’t believe that when they say that?

Bev: No, there’s no such thing. So I mean I just assume it’ll be such a relief to them. Shame, I think we always want to address. We never just kind of want to gloss over and go, “Okay, but let’s look at that thought.” Because any time our clients are feeling ashamed they’re thinking they’re doing it wrong and then they shut down and then there’s just no, that space, that healing coaching space is gone. So that I think is when we want to come what we’re talking about, listen, let’s just go find the humanness in you, that had you do it that way.

Part of you that thought it was just very best thing to do at the time, which it was because you thought it was.

Jody: That’s so beautiful. I love what you said about one beating heart to another beating heart. I was thinking about this because I have two little kids who still have stuffed animals that they like to cuddle and everything. But they really love to cuddle the pets, the dog and the cat. Now, of course the dog and the cat don’t always want to sit still. They want to jump off of their lap. But I was thinking it is so different to hold a live cat than to hold the stuffed animal cat because there’s no beating heart in that stuffed animal.

There’s something about our spirits and the aliveness of our bodies that we viscerally feel and you don’t have to be holding someone to feel it. There’s a difference and that’s – obviously there’s a difference but I just mean a live animal or person, I just don’t know how anyone could deny that there’s something divine that created that live thing. And that is lovable and good even if it’s been hurt and it’s showing up in terrible ways, at its core it is amazing.

Bev: 100%, I totally love that. I totally love that, yes, by design.

Jody: By design. Well, Bev Aron, I love you so much. Where can people get more of your beauty and wisdom?

Bev: Thank you, Jody. So I don’t put a lot out. It’s funny, as I was getting ready for this my nephew said, “Why don’t you have your own podcast?” And I said, “I’m just not consistent enough.” So if people want to…

Jody: You might be coached on that later but anyway.

Bev: Except it does cause me pain. This is me, I put out at bevaron.com, I do send out a monthly video, very, very short, usually six minutes on how to dive deeper in your own inner work. So it’ll just be like a little insight and a little exercise. So if people want to sign up for that and then I’ll usually send out information about groups I’m running or trainings. But that is the place to find me.

Jody: So if they want some deep dive coaching, they can go to bevaron.com, learn more and sign up for information, yes. And it’s Bev Aron A-R-O-N?

Bev: Correct.

Jody: Okay, alright. Well, Bev, I love you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Bev: I love you, Jody. And I have to tell you, I am hearing amazing things about your advanced training wherever I turn.

Jody: Oh, good, thank you, that’s been very fun.

Bev: Oh my gosh, amazing. Thank you.

Jody: Thank you.

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The post 387. Meet Jody’s Life Coach Bev Aron appeared first on Jody Moore.

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When people used to say to me, “I think I’m just afraid of being successful,” to a certain extent, I dismissed that this was even possible. I always thought, “None of us wants to fail, but we all want to succeed, so why would you be afraid of being successful?” However, it’s a common thing that holds people back, and recently I realized how scary success can be.

You need to be brave to choose success because, unfortunately, there will be people in your life who won’t be thrilled about how far you’ve come. Sure, some people will be supportive, but some of the people you truly care about and are closest to you will not like it. So, this is a very real fear, but understanding this idea of Success Courage will change how you view success, whatever success looks like for you.

Whether you want to become a talented writer, an artist, a well-known thought leader, rich, or anything else you consider to be successful, tune in this week to discover how to embrace this idea of Success Courage. I’m showing you how to spot the part of your brain that is afraid of success, and I’m sharing how to remind yourself that there is genuinely nothing to fear, and people judging your success isn’t actually a problem.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode:* Why it takes courage to truly embrace your own success. * How I’m defining success for this episode and why it’s a deeply personal concept. * Why our society often judges rich, well-known, highly-skilled people. * How other people’s opinions exacerbate our own judgments of ourselves. * Why even choosing happiness requires a high level of courage. * How to see where your brain is creating fear around your potential success. * 3 kinds of people who are going to judge you, and a completely new way to start viewing these types of people.

Mentioned on the Show: When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Get on the waitlist for Business Minded here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore** * Follow my brand new business Instagram account where I’ll be sharing my business tips for all you entrepreneurs! * 382. Rich People * Brooke Castillo

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 386, Success Courage.

Hey, everybody, I’m going to talk to you today about success courage. This is a topic I have suddenly become very interested in and a topic that I did not pay very close attention to in the past because whenever people said, “I think I’m just afraid of being successful”, I sort of in the back of my mind thought, come on, who’s afraid of being successful? I get that we’re all afraid of failing. None of us wants to fail but we all want to succeed. So why would you be afraid of being successful?

And yet it’s a common thing that people say and people feel. And I don’t think it was until recently that I really appreciated how scary success can be. So I’m excited to share with you my thoughts about that but first I want to share with you something else. I want to share the sweetest message that I got today. Right now we are selling an annual pass to Be Bold that you can give as a Christmas gift or you can buy it for yourself as a Christmas gift, or you can do both. You can give it to all the people that you love and buy one for yourself.

And here’s what I want to tell you. So Be Bold, we open and close the doors at various times throughout the year. It’s my coaching program where if you want to get coached and you want to learn more from me, and you want to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the next level, you’ve got to come in to Be Bold. That’s what we do there. But when we open it throughout the year you can pay month to month or you can pay for a whole year at once.

And I always recommend to people that they come and they give it at least a year to change some of the neural pathways in your brain and see really the impact in your life. But for some people paying month to month works better, budgeting wise and you also can just come and try a month and then leave, and stay as short or as long as you want. So at any rate with the annual pass you’re paying for a whole year. You’re getting a letter that says welcome to Be Bold, here’s how you login and all that, that you would give to your loved one on Christmas day or whatever holiday you celebrate.

You also get a little booklet called But What If I’m Right, a cute little illustrated booklet of wisdom to wrap up. And today I got a message from somebody who’s in Be Bold and I’m going to go ahead and keep her name anonymous because I didn’t check with her on that but she’ll know who she is. And my customer support team forwarded it to me and I just wanted to share it with you because it was so sweet.

She says, “I’d like to share with you the reason I switched back to the annual membership. I thought we couldn’t afford the large payment right now. I told my husband my plan to just go month to month and cancel if things got tight financially. He immediately responded with, “Be Bold has been so good for you and your mental health. If you’d like to stay in we will totally find a way to make it happen. This is an easy investment choice.””

Then she goes on to say, “I couldn’t agree more, will you please pass that on to Jody for me.” So there you have it. Thanks so much to my sweet client who sent that message and her husband. And I’m so glad to hear that its impacting you and I promise that if you want to have that same experience, come and join us at jodymoore.com/gift. That’s where you get the Christmas gift pass with all the fun bonuses. And I would love to take care of you in Be Bold, or your loved one.

Okay, so let’s talk about success courage. It takes more courage than I think I realized until recently to be successful, it does. It takes a lot of courage, you have to be brave to choose success. And the reason why is because other people won’t like it, some other people. Some people will love it but a lot of people, some of the people who your care a lot about in your life will not like it when you are successful. So I want to talk about what I mean by success first of all.

Success is a very personal concept. What is success, is different for every single one of us. Now, we might have some things that overlap, for example I may decide I want to have a coaching practice that is thriving, that generates a certain amount of revenue, serves a certain number of clients etc. And somebody else may say, “I want that same thing.” We might have some overlapping ideas of success. But still none of us has one thing that we consider success in our lives.

I want to have that coaching practice and I want to be able to work certain hours. And I want to be able to spend time with my kids. And I want to be able to enjoy what I’m doing. And I want to be able to travel or not have to travel or there’s so many small nuances within even a particular objective like that. But certainly overall what is success varies from person to person and I think that is fine and good and healthy. So I’m not trying to tell you what success should look like.

But let’s just take some of the common examples of what is success. Let’s say you want to make a lot of money, you want to be your rich. I recently did an episode all about rich people that you can go back and listen to after this, but it takes courage to be rich. I just listened to a class in my teacher, Brooke Castillo’s program, Self Coaching Scholars, called How to Use Your Beautiful Mind to get Rich. It’s a series she’s teaching.

And in the first class she talked about this that to be rich, especially if you’re going to own it, embrace it, and admit that you’re rich, requires courage because some people won’t like it. In fact, I want you to think about this. Who do we judge more, people who are rich or people who are living in poverty? My guess is we judge rich people way more.

I remember years ago going to dinner with Brooke Castillo and a smaller group of colleagues, there were maybe six or seven of us. It was a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant and the bill came. And we all went to get out our credit cards to help pay and Brooke was like, “Are you kidding me? I am paying for this. Do you know how rich I am?” So Brooke is a great example of someone who embraces her own success. She will flat out say, “Do you know how rich I am?”

The reason when I tell that story to people they laugh is because most of us are afraid to say that. Why are we afraid to say that? Because people will have thoughts, negative thoughts about us that we shouldn’t be rich and we certainly shouldn’t say that we’re rich. So it requires courage to be rich but being rich is not success for everybody. For some people they just want to be a little bit more well-known but let’s take an extreme example of this. Let’s take an A List Hollywood celebrity.

Is there anybody who gets judged more than a celebrity, or politician, or somebody who’s really in the public eye? Probably not because so many people are aware of that person that just by sheer numbers you’re going to have more opinions and more judgement. Not only that but they’re only aware of what they see and know which is not a very complete picture of that person. So the more well-known you are the, more people are aware of you for whatever reason, the more judgment you’re subjecting yourself to.

So those are the two most obvious old school version of success, making a lot of money, being well known. But let’s talk about some that are probably more common for a lot of us in terms of how we define success and why it’s still scary to us. Let’s say success to you is becoming a really talented writer. Maybe you’re inspired by other authors that maybe you love to read, you like to read novels, or poetry, or whatever it is. And you’re inspired by people who can write well.

And you have this little voice within you that’s like, “I kind of want to do that. I wonder if I could do that. I’d like to get good at that. I think it would be cool to be able to write like that.” In order to get good at writing you have to first be bad at writing and write anyway and then subject that writing to criticism or feedback. That’s how you’re going to get better, by seeing what lands for people, or by getting at least feedback from an instructor, or a teacher, or peers, or other people.

The more people you can expose your writing to and the more you can tolerate people telling you where it could be better, the better your chances of getting good at writing. Even once you’re ‘a great writer’, you’re still going to have people that criticize it, don’t like it and disapprove of it. And what that does for us is it triggers our own self-doubt and fear which we already usually have to a much greater extent than anyone else. And so you’re ability to tolerate other people’s opinions is why success requires courage. You’ve got to be courageous to be successful.

The same with art, maybe you want to be an artist. Well, you’re going to have to attempt to create whatever kind of art you want to create. You’re going have to tolerate your own judgment of it first of all and keep going anyway, not listen to the voice in your head that tells you you’re no good at this, you should just quit. That requires courage. It’s scary to even if you don’t have other people judging it, your own judgments are frightening, aren’t they? I know mine are. Can you tolerate that and can you keep going anyway?

Maybe you want to perform, maybe you want to be a singer, an actor, a dancer on a stage, maybe you want to, if you’re going to win awards, if you’re going to win games, if you’re going to become a great athlete. Any of these things require courage my friends but listen, here’s what else requires courage, just choosing to be happy requires courage. Just choosing to laugh more, choosing to even go out in the world and fight for a good cause requires courage, you know why? People will judge you for all of that, they will.

You go out and you fight for a cause you believe in, you’re going to probably have an opposite cause first of all, people who believe the opposite, who are pushing back against you. But even people who believe in your cause are going to tell you you’re doing it wrong, or that you’re not the one who should be fighting that fight or what have you. I’ve seen it happen over and over again with people who do non-profit work, people who are working to change legislation in ways that they think would better serve our country, people who are trying to serve underserved populations.

I see them get judged relentlessly by people. And again back to just being happy. If you’re going to be a happy person overall, none of us is always happy, nobody’s always happy. But if you overall are pretty happy, pretty easygoing, pretty much enjoying life, feeling really grateful and liking people for the most part you will be judged. People will say that you’re naïve, that you have your head in the sand, that you’re privileged, that you’re unaware of what’s really going on in the world, that you’re uneducated.

I could go on all day about the judgments people have of people for being happy, fascinating isn’t it? It requires courage to be happy, to fight for a cause, to pursue your goals. Now, here’s what I want to say. Let’s just pause for a moment and answer the part of our brains that’s afraid to succeed so that we can gain some courage. I don’t think we’re going to ever completely override the part of us that just wishes everyone liked us and approved of us. I think that is a human condition to just sort of desire that even though we know it’s not realistic and not even necessary.

But I want to better inform the part of your brain that knows it’s not necessary so that you don’t have to generate as much courage. Courage is just, I’m afraid and I’m going to do this anyway. But if we can minimize the fear we don’t need as much courage, are you with me? The way I want to do that is by reminding your brain, reminding you that there’s really genuinely nothing to fear, that it’s okay that people are judging your success or your happiness, it really is.

Because as far as I can tell from the years of coaching and the many, many self-help and psychology books I’ve read, and my own observations of the world, there are three groups of people for the most part who are going to judge you. And none of them are dangerous, and none of them have anything to do with you, they have to do with where these people are. And I can say, I’ve been in these groups and still do end up in these groups. We probably all do, at times. We all judge one another at times. So let’s just talk about these groups.

Number one. People who feel threatened by you. Sometimes as you go out in the world and start trying what you want to try, or doing what you want to do, somebody else who maybe is already doing that thing will notice you coming up alongside them and suddenly feel threatened by you. Or maybe they’re doing their own version of something but they notice you succeeding and they feel threatened, they feel competitive. They’re afraid that your success is in some way going to take away from their success.

And remember by success, I mean it can be a whole host of things. It could be attention. It could be a relationship. I see this a lot with women, that when a woman becomes friends with another woman that her other friends feel threatened. So it’s coming from a mindset of scarcity. Scarcity says that things exist in a pie, that don’t actually exist in a pie. In other words if you take a piece of the pie there is less pie for me.

So if friendship, and connection, and love is a pie and my friend is loving you and connecting with you then you’ve just taken some of the love and connection that’s available from my friend. I will feel threatened now. And instead of staying in my own self-doubt or shame it’s a lot easier to project that out onto you and start judging you or judging my friend. So people who feel threatened by you. Here’s one of the things I like to keep in mind.

I’ve had this happen only a couple of times in my eight/nine years of being a coach and owning a coaching practice. But there have been one or two occasions that I can recall where somebody else who’s doing similar work to what I’m doing in the world has judged me. I mean there’s probably been many times people have judged me but as far as I’m aware that I became aware of in a way that was really obvious, and outspoken, and vocal, and posted online and things. There has only been two occasions.

But what I like to remind myself is wow, that person is in some way feeling threatened by me and I’m sort of flattered by that. Because when I look at that person I see that they’re doing amazing work and they’re really succeeding in so many ways. They’re reaching so many people. They’re helping people. They’re changing lives. They’re figuring out their marketing and sales. And the fact that they’re threatened by me is kind of flattering. I know there’s no need for it. My success doesn’t have to take away from their success.

I have to remind myself that or else it’s tempting to move into the same scarcity, and the same defensiveness, and the same judgment that they’re in. But it’s kind of flattering that they think that you’re a viable threat when you’re not actually a threat. But do you see how you could take it as a compliment? It’s not scary, first of all. It’s just somebody in scarcity.

Okay, let’s talk about the second group of people who may judge you, not everyone in these groups is going to judge you but some of these people may when you start succeeding. People who don’t have what you have or haven’t achieved what you’ve achieved, but there’s a caveat. A lot of people who haven’t achieved what you have achieved are going to view you as inspirational. They’re going to look to you as an example of what’s possible and they’re going to be thankful that you’ve set the example and are showing the way and are planting ideas in their head about things that they may desire.

So a lot of people who haven’t achieved what you have and want to are going to really adore you and have a lot of positive thoughts about you. But there’s two groups of people within this category who may judge you. The first is people who are lying to themselves about not wanting what you have succeeded at. I see this happen a lot. I’ve been this person by the way, I’ll give you some examples. Sometimes my friends and I will find ourselves critiquing celebrities.

We’re like, “Man, look at her, she’s just so skinny. She needs to eat more. She’s had so much work done, her skin is just, oh, it just doesn’t look real. And man, she must have spent a lot of money to get her hair that way.” And we’re critiquing someone, it’s often a celebrity. I’m pretty good about not doing this with people that I know in the real world. But with celebrities we’ll start critiquing someone and then one of my friends who’s really funny will notice what we’re doing and she’ll stop and go, “Yeah, I’d hate to be her.”

And then we all laugh because we realize, we’re critiquing this woman because we secretly wish that we were that thin, and beautiful, and had perfect hair, and perfect skin, and looked as amazing as this woman in this photograph looks that we’re sitting here judging. We’re lying to ourselves. We’ll even say things like, “I would never spend my money on getting work done.” And again, I’m not saying that that’s not true. There are certain things that people choose to do that I wouldn’t choose to do. But also it’s not even a possibility for me in that moment usually when I’m judging someone.

And usually that kind of judgment has this little voice in the back of my head that’s like, “But I don’t know, it might be kind of cool to be able to get hair extensions and to look how that woman looks, that would kind of be awesome.” So do you see how that lying to yourself about not wanting it or maybe just their success is triggering for you whatever success looks like for you. But you’re lying to yourself about the fact that you do desire more.

You do desire to achieve, or attempt, or become something that you haven’t become. And seeing that person become what they desire triggers that self-doubt which brings me to the second people in that group. People who don’t have what you have and have tremendous self-doubt about their ability to achieve it or become it. We don’t like to see examples of people succeeding in ways that we wish we could when we don’t believe we could. It again triggers all of those doubtful thoughts.

But because it doesn’t feel good to judge ourselves we will often turn around and project it on to judging someone else which also doesn’t feel good but it has the illusion of power to us. It has the illusion of if I put you down I can rise up just a little bit above you so that I don’t have to be beneath you where my brain is placing me in the first place. It’s not doing that, no one is above or beneath anyone else. But it gives us the illusion of that, the illusion of being better than by judging someone.

When the truth is often it’s just about our own self-doubt, our own inability to achieve what that person has achieved. So as you become successful, or happier, or pursue things, or try things, or do whatever you want in your life there will be some of those people who will judge you.

Let’s talk about the third and final group of people who may judge you, requiring success courage. And then I’m going to tell you just some final thoughts on how to stay in courage. People who are close to you in your life, some of them, some of the people who love you, who are even your biggest supporters may judge you when you become successful in certain ways.

Now, some of those people who are close to you fall in those first two buckets we talked about. Some of those people who are close to you may feel threatened by you or they may secretly want to achieve what you’re achieving or some other version of it. And when it’s someone close to you it’s even more triggering. It brings up our own self-doubt and our own noise even more intensely.

But here’s the other thing that will happen and I’ve coached so many people in this situation is that people who are close to you may suddenly become concerned about you because they see you changing. They will see that your priorities change, that the way you think about the world changes, the way you think about yourself changes, the way you spend your time changes, the time you have in certain relationships. The things that you need, your own needs will change, your values in some ways will change as you become more successful at whatever you choose to do.

And I don’t believe this is a bad thing but it is an uncomfortable thing at times for the people around you. Sometimes they’ll view you as being inauthentic or fake because in their minds you are the person that they knew when they first met you. If this is a family member they’ve grown up with you. If this is a friend, they met you at a certain time in your life. And so they remember you in a certain way but you are an evolving person as are they. But if you purposely choose to evolve and grow by pursuing things in your life, other people around you won’t always understand it.

They think of you as an old version of you and you have old patterns and old habits of being in relationship to one another. And when you stop being that same version of you there is a lot of discomfort there. Sometimes what I see is that your vibrations just stop aligning. What I mean by that is your emotional state doesn’t line up as frequently as it used to.

So let’s say you have some girl friends who you hang out with and you all complain a lot about your husbands, or your life, or something and you work on yourself, you become less negative, you stop thinking about what’s wrong in the world and you start thinking about a useful problem, like a business your building or some other kind of goal you’re pursuing. And suddenly complaining about your husband isn’t as appealing anymore or you intentionally choose not to.

They’re not going to like that because they’re used to connecting with you at a low vibration. And if you’re going to stay at a higher vibration, they’re not going to like that. In fact they’re going to feel like you’re judging them by not going down that same path you’re used to going. So here’s the thing, this is all figure out-able, it really is. Its all figure out-able. And of course the first two that I talked about, if they’re not people who are close to you it really doesn’t matter, it’s none of your business, let people be people.

But for the people in your life that you’re close to, the relationships you care about as you achieve success just know that if some of them struggle with it, nothing’s wrong. It doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong. It doesn’t mean they’re doing something wrong. It just means that you may have to redefine your relationship to them a little bit at least in your own head. It may mean that you stop expecting them to play a certain role in your life that they’ve played in the past.

It may be that you’re unable to play a certain role in their lives that you’ve played in the past. It may be that they aren’t going to be the place you go to, to complain about your rich person problems because they’ve got different struggles. And it’s not fair to expect them to be that for you and they don’t have to be that for you. I’ve seen this happen a lot with some of my fellow coaches who I’m close to as I’ve watched all of us over the last few years really grow our coaching practices.

There’s one close friend of mine in particular who comes to mind who’s said, she’s an immigrant. She’s like, “I have family who is still living in third world countries and some of them are really mad at me for my success. And they think that I just think I’m all that now and that I’m full of myself.” And she’s like, “I desperately want them to come with me. I want to bring them along. I want to help them. I want to help them achieve their goals and show them that they can have a better life too, but they’re sort of mad at me.”

I see this dynamic happen a lot. And what she’s come to realize is that she has to redefine herself in relation to them just a little bit and not be mad at them for being mad at her because everybody she’s viewing the world from where they’re at. The other thing is you can give people the benefit of the doubt. I’m not saying that everybody in your life is going to struggle in this way. Most people you can be the new you and a lot of them will come with you and it will be an easy transition. But don’t drag people with you. You can’t drag people along.

Let’s say you’ve discovered coaching, I see this a lot when people find coaching, they learn the model, they learn that their thoughts create their feelings. They become so much happier or more empowered and they want to bring everybody else with them but guess what? Not everybody’s ready and you can’t force people through an evolution like that. It has to be something that they choose and that they go through on their own time and in their own way.

So here’s what I want to say. Please be courageous enough to be successful in whatever way, whatever success means to you. Please have the courage to do it because the alternative is much worse. The alternative is denying yourself, it’s ignoring and neglecting a part of yourself that intrinsically wants to see what your life could be, and who you could become, and what kind of contribution you could make. Or just how enjoyable your experience while you’re alive on planet Earth could be.

And that is much more painful even though it’s a slow long drawn out pain, it’s much more painful than the courage required to simply know people will judge you, sometimes even people that you dearly love and it’s okay. It’s not about you, it’s about them and we’re all guilty of it. I’m certainly guilty of it sometimes judging successful people, I know I am. So it’s part of our human condition but what it is indicative of again when I’m judging others is work that I need to do on me, that’s it. So please go out there, and be successful, and be happy in all the ways you choose.

Thanks for joining me today, everyone, I’ll see you next time. Bye bye.

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What do you want for Christmas this year? Did you know you can have anything you want? I’m not just talking about Christmas morning here, but throughout the festive season, you can decide right now to create any experience you want over the holidays and get exactly what you want for Christmas. Of course, we […]

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This week, I’m sitting down with my soul sister and one of my favorite people ever, Danielle Thienel. If you’re in Be Bold, you’ll be familiar with her coaching, but while she’s part of my team, she also runs her own coaching business where she helps moms who are stressed and overwhelmed find peace and […]

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The post 369. How to Help Your Missionary with Jennie Dildine appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Inside Be Bold, there’s a dedicated space for you to ask a coach any number of questions on any number of topics, and we answer them all. It used to be just me keeping up on all of them until I couldn’t anymore, and we’ve now got such a huge library of resources on our […]

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This week, I’m bringing you an episode I wish existed when I was a young adult in my 20s. At that stage of my life, I went through a period of really wanting to get married. But instead of going out and finding my spouse, I sat at home feeling sorry for myself, complaining, and […]

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I get questions all the time from people who are either themselves battling depression or know a family member, loved one, or child who is struggling with it. And they want to know, does coaching work for depression? Is therapy the right answer? What else is out there to help people with depression? So this […]

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I’m doing something a little different this week. I’ve been fascinated by and trying to learn more about storytelling lately, so today, I’m sharing a true story from my and my children’s lives. And it’s all about the school bus.

This is a specific story about one of my kid’s experiences, but it perfectly illustrates what so many people go through in many aspects of their lives. It’s a story of change, acceptance, fear, and growth because we all need reminding that even when things feel challenging, we are right on track.

Join me this week as I share a story that perfectly encapsulates our human experience. Whether it’s school buses, being a parent, or anything else in your life, this episode will hopefully give you permission to have and embrace seasons of both light and darkness.

If you enjoy this podcast, or even if it just piques your curiosity and makes you think, you’re going to love my book, Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. It’s available now on Amazon for Kindle, in print, and on Audible!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Why storytelling is important to me. * My kids’ experience of riding the school bus. * The moral of this story that I found to be helpful in my life. * Why the experience of 50/50 is what makes our lives rich.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 346: The School Bus.

Hello everybody, welcome to episode 346. I’m going to try something a little bit different today than what I normally do on this podcast. Lately I’ve been really trying to learn more about storytelling. I’m fascinated with story. I find that stories are really inspiring. A teacher and mentor I should say that I worked with last year said to me one time, “If a picture is worth a 1,000 words, a story is worth a 1,000 pictures.” And I couldn’t agree more. And so today I’m going to tell you the story of the school bus.

This is a true story from mine and my children’s lives and I want to share it with you today. And I hope that it will illustrate a point that I’ve found to be helpful in my life.

One – amazing. I have been driving my oldest kids, Isaac and Macy to school for five years when our family moves to Washington state. We moved here when my oldest son was in fifth grade. And in California where we came from there were no school buses, at least not from where we lived. And so, I drove them to school every day of school for five years.

I remember the first few days of taking my oldest son, Isaac, to school and dropping him off and then picking him up and realizing, wait a second, I have to do this every day that there’s school. This is a serious commitment. I hope I don’t forget. And also, I’m going to have to plan my day around this. But I did, I did it until we moved to Washington state. Now, when we lived in California also when I was driving the kids it was not uncommon for us to be running late. There were many stressful tense mornings.

There were many hurrying and jumping out of the cars and running to the line to get in line to try to make it before the bell rang moments. It was kind of crazy when I drove those kids to school but we moved to Washington where there were school buses. Now, when we moved here, Isaac was in middle school. So, their schools started about half an hour apart. So, for the first few days of a new school I drove my kids.

I would take Isaac, I would pick him up and take him about 15 minutes before school started, drop him off, get home about 15 minutes after school started, have about 10 or 15 minutes before I needed to then take Macy to her school which was again about another half an hour round trip. So roughly over an hour each morning of driving kids to school and then a little over an hour again at the end of the day with the same routine for coming home. So, about a few days to a week into their new school I said, “It’s time to ride the bus.”

And what an amazing relief that was. There were a little bit of nerves on their part but we figured out the bus routine and they did just fine. And not long after that on one of my Take Tuesday emails that I send out every week I wrote this. School buses, have you paused to consider them? Amazing. They pick my kids up a half a block away from our front door then they drop them off at school on time every day. And as if this wasn’t enough, they’re there waiting when the kids get out of school. They bring them back to me a half a block away from our front door again.

My kids get to ride to and from school with their friends and I get an extra two hours in my day. What a great country we live in that has school buses. What a fantastic world it is. Haven’t you noticed? Now, in reply to this email I got a few messages from people that said things like this. I love your school bus email. Thank you for reminding moms that it’s okay and good to want a break from our kids especially when that time away enables us to put more energy and love back into our kids. You’re the best.

But I also got a few messages more like this one from a woman who we’ll just call Karen. Dear Jody, I’ve enjoyed many of your podcasts. My daughter sends her favorite ones to me. This email about school buses was very upsetting to me. I find it very sad when I hear moms say things about getting two more hours without kids. I raised five kids, and yes, needed breaks but to add two more hours onto a long day for my kids seems very selfish and thoughtless concerning really what kids want.

I would ask myself really, would I want to ride on the bus every day? Would I be so excited to sit with friends on a bus every school day? I don’t think so. In fact, my kids enjoyed being home. They were ready for downtime when school was over and enjoyed the break from the social to just relax. I think many women today fool themselves into thinking their kids enjoy this, seems very selfish. In conference we heard a while back about mothers, and time, and what time was given to us for on Earth.

I believe the most important work we can do is to bring children into the world and to love, and to teach them, and let them grow up in a healthy and loving home. Too many today continue to say and act as if kids can be pushed aside or not be taken into consideration above the moms’ needs. It’s a very selfish generation around us. I say, think of kids first. Don’t talk yourself into thinking that kids don’t mind being away from home because they have friends to play with and kids like being on a bus.

God’s greatest creation is man, we have the opportunity to make them our highest priority for a very short period of time and then you can move on with your own desires. The balance seems way out of balance and not in favor of the kids. Love Karen. I have no words to reply to Karen.

Two – Mr. Earl. Isaac and Macy are now riding the bus together. They’re both in middle school. And they tell me stories of Mr. Earl. Mr. Earl is their bus driver. He is an older Black man. He is not like the people that they are used to being around. He has a season about him that it brings a wisdom. He plays music that the kids like on the bus. He respect those kids. Kids can tell when adults respect them or not. He is kind to these kids. Even Isaac talks about how much he likes Mr. Earl, and that’s saying something. Isaac doesn’t talk about liking very many things.

Three – anxiety. Oliver is my most anxious child. He is five years old now and he still gets upset if I’m not on the same floor of the house as him and haven’t told him that I’m going upstairs or going downstairs. He is very nervous about the school bus. He’s not nervous about going to school now that he’s going to be starting kindergarten, he’s only nervous about the school bus. He’s nervous about knowing how to find his class line once he gets to school from the school bus.

He is nervous about getting on the right bus at the end of the day and getting off at the right bus stop once the bus gets to our neighborhood. I do a lot of research in order to try to handle Oliver’s anxiety. I take him on a walkthrough at school of what it’s like to get off the bus and get in your line, and get on the bus again, teachers help. My assistant, Melissa, even finds an opportunity where we can go and ride one of the school buses together to help him be comfortable and we do it.

The teachers at the school are prepared to help the kindergartners, they put a special tag on their backpacks that has the bus number, the stop they are to get off at and mom and dad’s cellphone numbers just in case anything goes wrong. I even find people to help Oliver.

Four – jackpot. Not only do I find someone to help Oliver. I find three someone’s to help Oliver. They are triplets. They are triplet girls who happen to be in our ward and they are in fifth grade. And they will be riding Oliver’s same school bus if we just choose to ride the one they happen to ride. We go to the triplets house and meet the triplets. They are sweet girls and they’re willing to help Oliver and make sure he gets off at the right stop. The only problem is the triplets are musically talented just like their amazing mother.

They begin playing the violin about a month into school. And several mornings a week there are no triplets to be found as we board the bus. The triplets have early morning violin practice. Fortunately, though, Oliver has made a buddy, his name is Mitt. Mitt is also in our ward at church and lives in our neighborhood and rides Oliver’s bus. Mitt is short even for a kindergartner. He is a serious little boy. Mitt tells me often how excited he is for the golf lesson he has after school.

He tells me that he thinks about golf all day. This reminds me of my dad whose considerably older than Mitt. Mitt’s mom is also a friend of mine and shares with me that one day she asks Mitt, “How is Oliver doing on the bus?” And Mitt replies, “He’s fine as long as I hold his hand.” The next day I notice Oliver getting on the bus, reach for Mitt’s hand and I noticed Mitt let him grab it. Thank you, Mitt.

Five – meeting with Brooke. Brooke Castillo is my teacher, and coach, and dear friend. She taught me everything I know about circumstances being neutral, about not trying to control the world outside of us and about choosing how we will think and feel instead. I have a meeting with Brooke a couple of months into Oliver’s kindergarten year at school and she asks me about my family, she asks how they’re doing. I tell her, “Everybody’s fine except Oliver. He has to ride the school bus and he gets really anxious.”

She asks me why I’m making him ride the bus. And I explain that in kindergarten they really give a lot of extra attention to those kids on the bus. And if he doesn’t learn the routine now I’m afraid he won’t get that kind of attention later and then he’ll never be able to ride the bus and I need him to, to accommodate my work schedule. I tell Brooke, “It’s fine, I’m running models on myself, I’m doing my self-coaching and I’m going to be fine with Oliver being anxious”, to which she says, “Nonsense. Let’s just get Oliver his own personal driver.”

Six – late. Oliver is not on the same bus route that Isaac and Macy used to ride because again we had to accommodate being at the same bus stop as the triplets and Mitt. One day we’re running late. I don’t know Oliver’s bus driver because it’s not Mr. Earl but I’ve seen him. He seems nice. We’re running late and all the kids have already boarded the bus and I’m feeling like a terrible mother because it’s my fault for not getting Oliver out the door in time to get to the bus stop in time to calm his nerves. He’s anxious and crying.

He doesn’t know who he’s going to sit by on the bus. The triplets have already boarded and so has Mitt. We run up to the bus and Mr. Al is waiting with the door open. He leans out and sees Oliver’s tear streaked face and says, “Oliver, don’t worry, I saved you a seat right here behind me, right by one of your friends.” That’s the day I learned this bus driver was named Mr. Al. That’s the day I learned that Mr. Al knew Oliver well. I mean, of course he knew Oliver well, Oliver’s the one who cries on the bus but I didn’t realize how Mr. Al was looking out for Oliver.

In that moment I realized I could tell Brooke, “Oliver does have his own personal driver.”

Seven – Hayden. One day when I go to pick Oliver up from the bus I notice he’s getting off next to a fifth grade girl who’s quite a bit older than him. I recognized her, she goes to our church as well. I notice her helping Oliver off the bus, making sure he’s okay. He says goodbye to her. I have never introduced Oliver to this girl. I recognize her but I’m not even positive I know her name. I ask Oliver, “Who’s that girl?” He says, “That’s my friend, Hayden.”

I say, “How did you meet Hayden?” He says, “Recently, mom, I was at school. I was waiting for the bus and I was scared. I was crying. One of the teachers saw me crying and asked what was wrong and I told her I was nervous about riding the bus. She said, “Well, Oliver, this is my friend, Hayden, it looks like she rides your bus too, I bet she’ll sit by you.” Hayden sits by me when I’m scared, mom.”

Eight – Taylor. Taylor is Oliver’s younger sister, she’s two years younger than him. She goes with me each day as I take Oliver to the bus stop and then pick him up again at the end of the day. She often likes to sit in the stroller even though it’s just a few blocks away. She watches the whole charade. She sees Oliver often in tears as he gets on the bus. She sees him overjoyed to be home when he gets off the bus. She hears our discussions about the bus.

Taylor sees that each day Oliver seems to get on the bus safely, and then return home safety. After a while of observing she says to me, “Mom, when I go to school I’m going to ride the bus.” And I say, “Yes, you will.” She says, “I’m not going to cry, mom, when I get on the bus.” And I say, “I know, Taylor.”

Nine – coronacation. It’s March of 2020 and our governor has just announced that school will be cancelled at least for the next month. My kids don’t really understand what a pandemic is at this point. They only know that school is cancelled for at least a month. At this time nobody calls it COVID, everybody calls it coronavirus. My kids name it coronacation, no school, no school bus. As the year goes on of course we don’t return to school. And the following fall we’re all surprised to learn that there is still no school happening.

Some people though are thrilled about this, namely Oliver, no school bus. Everyone is praying that we will get to end Zoom school soon and go back to regular school, everyone but Oliver that is. Oliver’s a good student. He reads at a higher level than most of the kids in his first grade class now. I see him on Zoom and he participates quite a lot. He is excited about a new Spiderman book he’s gotten and he keeps telling Miss Owens one day about his new book asking, “When will it be silent reading time?” So, he can read his Spiderman book.

Miss Owens announces to the class that there’s been a development in the pandemic. And the governor has said that first graders will be able to return to school just before the holidays. Everyone cheers, everyone except Oliver. Tears stream down Oliver’s face. Miss Owen sees this even on Zoom. She dismisses everyone about 10 minutes early that day and asks Oliver if he’ll just stay on Zoom with her for a little longer. As I do the dishes nearby in the kitchen I listen as this sweet teacher spends an extra 20 minutes on Zoom with my Oliver.

She asks him to read to her from his Spiderman book. He reads for a while and eventually she interrupts him and says, “Oliver, you are such a great reader. Some of the words you just read are third and fourth grade words. I can’t believe you can read those. You’re going to do so well when we come back to school. I can’t wait to see you.” Then she asks Oliver to stand up and repeat the class motto with her. I am strong, I am brave, I am loved, I can do hard things. Bless you, Mrs. Owens.

Ten – dreams do come true. As Oliver returns to school there’s a new protocol in place. There are a lot of new protocols in place, one such protocol has to do with drop off and pick up from school. The parents have been asked to please drive children to school if you can as we don’t want too many kids sitting too closely on the buses. My husband and I both work from home and we can drive Oliver to school if we simply plan for it and are willing to be inconvenienced a little, so we do.

The protocol is that we pull into a drop off line in the morning, and we wait our turn. When it’s our turn, a teacher comes to the car and opens the car door. Oliver has his mask on, an attestation form in hand verifying that he doesn’t have any COVID symptoms, and he gets his temperature taken by a teacher who then gets him out of the car, walks him to the door of the school and sends him to his classroom.

When it’s time to come home a similar routine happens. I have a number associated with Oliver that goes in the windshield of my car. I pull into the pick up lane and a teacher on an iPad sends my number back into some magical land within the school. Oliver is notified that his number is up and he is escorted once again by a teacher from the school building to the door of my car where he is helped in. Oliver couldn’t be happier. It’s not even the bus itself that Oliver is scared of, it’s the chaos of getting from the bus to school and from school back to the bus.

All Oliver has ever wanted is a personal escort from me to the next adult responsible for him. Is that so much to ask?

Eleven – sister. It’s a new school year now and Taylor is beginning kindergarten. Oliver now in second grade will have his sister with him on the bus. I am glad that they will have each other. I am glad Taylor will have Oliver and I’m glad Oliver will have Taylor. I’m hopeful this year will be better. it doesn’t start out that way. Oliver’s nerves seem to bleed into Taylor. She becomes nervous about the bus. But at least they have each other.

They’re little nervous Nellies but they get on that bus together. They sit together every day. They have an assigned seat so they know exactly where they’ll sit, right behind Mr. Earl whose now their bus driver. Isaac and Macy’s Mr. Earl, the same one. They’re excited to have Mr. Earl and they’re doing this bus thing together. We can do hard things.

Twelve – late. It’s winter now and winter in Spokane means snow. And snow means that buses tend to run late. If the bus is running late in the morning everyone’s happy, this means school will start later and we will have a shorter school day. This is good news for all of my children. But if the bus is running late in the afternoon everyone is disappointed and Oliver and Taylor are nervous. Icy roads will slow down buses and sometimes buses have to pull over and chain up causing them to run even later.

It’s not uncommon now for night time prayers said by one of my littles to include the line, “Please bless that the bus doesn’t have to chain up.” It’s December 16th now and the sun in Spokane, Washington is setting at approximately 4:05pm. The bus normally drops my kids off at 3:45 which means it’s nearly dark by the time we get home. On December 16th, the roads are icier than I have ever seen in my entire life. A new snowstorm happens to hit just before the sun goes down, leaving a layer of water on the road that then instantly freezes.

Every spot on every road that I could see was covered in ice. I get a text message as I wait at the bus stop saying that the buses are running late. Then 15 minutes later another text, buses are running even later. 15 minutes later another text, the bus will be at least two hours late, please come and get your kids if you can. It’s dark now, I get in my car and start driving to the school. I am driving slowly, everyone is driving slowly. The roads are so icy I nearly slip off one.

I have fear racing through my heart and all the while I know my kids are at school also in fear but for a different reason. It’s past five o’clock by the time I get to the school and pitch dark. As far as my little kids know, it might as well be bedtime. They feel they’ve been at school all night. It’s almost seven o’clock by the time we get home. My children are somewhat traumatized although ironically enough once I pick them up and they get in the car they’re suddenly not scared at all. They were only scared waiting for me in the office.

I think to myself how crazy it is, they were perfectly safe in the office. On these icy roads this is when they should be scared, but they’re not, they’re with me now but they’re traumatized about riding the bus. There’s only one day of school left until Christmas break and I tell my kids, “We’re not going to school tomorrow.” In protest of the icy roads, we just stay home.

Thirteen – kids are the best. The kids at our bus stop are seriously so nice. There is another set of triplet girls that rides our bus, not the same ones from kindergarten, a different set that also goes to our church. They’re the nicest girls. They’re Oliver’s same age but they aren’t afraid of riding the bus. One morning as we’re waiting at the bus stop and Oliver is feeling a little anxious, he’s fighting back tears and one of these sweet triplets says, “Oliver, what’s the matter?” He says, “I’m just a little nervous about the bus.”

She puts her hand on his shoulder and says, “Oliver, the bus isn’t scary, it’s just a little bit bumpy.” There’s another girl who rides the bus, a fifth grader, she’s one of the older girls of the group and she knows it. One morning as all the kids are boarding the bus I notice she stands aside, she watches each kid get on, making sure they all get on safety, almost patting their backs as they walked by like an adult would. I love these kids. They all wave goodbye to me as the bus pulls away. Oliver and Taylor are not crying now as they ride the bus.

Mr. Earl has been gone since thanksgiving. We’ve had substitute bus drivers. We think he’s coming back. We’re not sure.

Fourteen – early. The bus normally takes home the high schoolers and then goes back and gets the middle schoolers, and then goes back and gets the elementary school students. At the end of the semester the high school students have finals which means they have two half days of school. This means the bus gets to the middle school a little earlier than it normally would. Therefore, it gets back to the elementary school a little bit earlier than it normally would. I do not realize the high school early out day is going to affect the drop off time of the elementary students.

And when Oliver and Taylor get home that day, I am not there waiting at the bus stop. They panic. They begin crying. One of the triplets says, “Oliver, Taylor, you can come to my house and then my mom will call your mom and she’ll come and get you.” They do. I get a call from the triplet’s mother, “I have Oliver and Taylor here and they’re just fine. We’re making some popcorn but if you want to come and get them, they’re here.” I rush to their house. The kids are fine, in fact the popcorn smells delicious and they kind of want to stay but they’re also a little traumatized so we go home.

They can’t stop talking about the fact that I wasn’t there to get them when the bus brought them home. Mind you, you can see our house from the bus stop. I remind them that everything worked out fine, that they did it. That the thing they were most afraid of happened and they were fine. And that they know all those kids at their bus stop and we know so many families in this neighborhood. And if worst came to worst they could just walk home, they can see our house from the bus stop. They don’t care. They’re still nervous.

They say to me, “Mom, tomorrow after you drop us off at the bus stop can you just wait there all day to make sure you’re there in time?” I say, “No.”

Fifteen – Mr. Earl. One morning as I take my kids for the bus, I say, “Kids, Mr. Earl’s been gone a long time. He’s definitely not on vacation. I thought maybe he’d had surgery or something but that doesn’t seem likely either. I think maybe he’s not coming back.” Taylor says to me, “No, mom, he’s coming back.” I say, “He is, how do you know?” She says, “Mom, they told us, he’s coming back. His wife just died. He’s looking at pictures of her and crying but when he’s done he’ll be back.”

Sixteen – not cool. Isaac and Macy are in high school now and riding the school bus is not cool when you’re in high school. They’re totally over it. Next year, Isaac will be able to drive them to school. They say they can’t wait. I think secretly they might miss the school bus or maybe not. Moral of the story, most things in life that are good are also sometimes bad. Most things we love will be annoying, sometimes the things we fear create the most comfort.

The experience of 50/50 is what makes this life the rich vehicle for expansion, joy and growth that it is. If your marriage is 50/50, you’re right on track. Being a parent is equal parts amazing and terrible. You yourself are half light and half darkness. Just as the planet spins on its axis and revolves around the sun, we too will have seasons of selflessness and serving combined with times of needing to be served and to rest. This is the way of it, with school buses, with families, with careers, with you and with me.

Thanks for joining me today everyone. I’ll see you next week. Bye bye.

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Navigating parent child dynamics at every stage of life as your children get older is so challenging. I’m always getting requests for my input on this topic, so today, I’m sharing with you my theory on parent child dynamics and some specific things you can do to make your experience of raising children more enjoyable.

Whether you’re a parent of young children or adult children, today’s episode is going to put into perspective why your experience might be so difficult. I believe discomfort is an inevitable part of our journey as parents, similar to the discomfort children go through in life as they start exercising their own authority, but I have some strategies that are going to make overcoming these hurdles feel more peaceful.

Tune in this week as I offer my theory on parent child dynamics based on the coaching work I’ve done and the observations I’ve made over the years. I’m showing you the most common challenges I see in parent child dynamics, what often creates the friction and tension that we experience, and three tips for navigating your relationships with mutual respect.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * My theory on parent child dynamics. * Why parent child dynamics can be so challenging. * The discomfort we have to experience as parents as we let go of authority and control over our kids. * What creates tension and friction in parent child dynamics. * The most common challenges that come up in parent child dynamics. * 3 strategies for navigating the biggest pain points in parent child dynamics.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 345: Parent Child Dynamics.

Hello friends. How we doing today? I have a great episode to share with you today. I’ll tell you that the reason I’m talking about this is because I’ve had a lot of questions lately about this topic. And I had a lot of people as I have reached out in a couple of ways asking for input on what you want to learn more about. I had an overwhelming flood of responses asking about this topic.

So, I’m going to teach you my theory on parent child dynamics and why it can be so challenging and some specific things that you can do to make it more enjoyable as you raise children, especially as your children get older. And we’re going to do a deep dive in Be Bold for the month of March, our monthly workshop topic which we always have a new one every month in Be Bold, is going to be navigating your relationships with your adult kids. So, my mom actually specializes in this, she coaches people on this topic. And we had her on the podcast a little while back and talked about this.

I want to talk about it a little bit differently today. And I’m not just going to focus on adult kids, I want to talk about though the various stages that our kids go through because I think that it’s important to put it in perspective in order to better understand why it feels so challenging raising adult kids and can feel challenging at any age. But here is my theory. Now, I will say this is my theory. I created this theory based on the many, many years of coaching that I’ve done and just observation in the world. I’m always a student of psychology and self-help.

I’m constantly reading up on human development. I have a lot of education in childhood development but that said this is just my theory. This is not an academically vetted theory or anything like that. But I think you’re going to find that it’s not totally out there. I think you’ll probably find it’s really just more an observation. But this is the way I like to think about it.

So, our kids are born and they’re these sweet little infant babies who are completely helpless. They can’t do much on their own. They can breathe. They can digest food. The things that their bodies do automatically they can do hopefully. And when they’re healthy they can do all those things. But anything much outside of that they can’t. They certainly can’t walk, or talk, or move around, or wrap themselves up in a blanket when they’re cold, or take a blanket off when they’re hot. They really depend on us for everything.

So, this point at which a baby is born the child is in the ultimate one down position and we are in the ultimate one up position. So much so that I don’t know what that’s like for a baby. I don’t really remember being a baby. But maybe frightening, I don’t know. But for the adult it can be overwhelming because that child needs so much from us. At any rate that’s how our kids start out.

Now, slowly over time they grow and develop until they can do some things on their own. They start rising up a little bit, if you will, and we are able to then come down a little bit and do a little bit less as they learn to walk, and move around, and talk, and put food in their own mouths. And next thing you know we have toddlers and young kids who can do quite a bit for themselves but still need us. They still need a lot from us.

We still are taking care of them and providing for them financially, and helping them navigate the world. And it’s still very much a one down, one up kind of relationship with the parent being in the one up, the child being one down. It’s just that those two levels are starting to move closer towards one another. Are you with me?

Eventually we have a teenager. Now, as the movement starts happening in terms of the child’s dependency on us and our need to care for them, and control their world, and provide for them. As that change starts happening it can be uncomfortable for both parties. It can be uncomfortable to allow our kids more freedom and independence when we’re used to providing for them. It’s called letting go.

And it can be uncomfortable for the child to have to sometimes step out, not for all kids but for some kids it can be uncomfortable to have to step out and be independent and figure some things out on their own. So as a teenager we see the dynamic, again, there are challenges of course at all points along the way but as a teenager I think teenagers start realizing wait a second, literally all the things that I need to survive I technically am capable of.

And so, I kind of want to make decisions in my life, at the same time I don’t want mom and dad too far away because I don’t want to have to be a 100% responsible for myself in my life. So, there is this weird dynamic that happens. This actually happens with our toddlers and young kids too of, yes, I want you to be able to make your own decisions but also sometimes the answer is going to be no. And then we have a toddler tantrum, or we have a rebellious teenager on our hands.

And I believe that part of the discomfort is that as parents we need to be moving down the scale in terms of our authority, our control, our making decisions on their behalf. We need to allow the child to move up the scale in terms of their own decision-making, their own exercising of their own agency without us vetoing it and overriding it. And it’s so tough to know how much to do that, and in different categories, and with different children, and in different families it’s different. So, what’s the right way?

And how many just thought out mistakes or stupid choices do we let them make when we can see the consequences of that? And the child fighting sometimes for more agency and us fighting for more control creates this conflict and this tension and dissonance in the relationship. Now, this continues on as our children continue to grow up and become at some point young adults. When, again, now we’re starting to really level out in terms of how much control or authority we should be exercising in their life. Maybe it ideally should be exactly level even. I don’t know.

Again, it depends on the child, it depends on the parent, it depends on the situation. But ideally we’re raising kids who are confident, and capable, and responsible, and independent, and able to do all the things on their own. The problem is not all of our kids will step into owning those things. Some of them will keep relying on us. Not all parents are good at giving up the control which is just an illusion but in their minds letting go of control. And when we don’t let go at the same rate at which our child is stepping into their own independence then we create tension and friction.

Now, I know some of you are thinking, well, you don’t understand, I can’t let go of it because my kid will make all these terrible decisions and really ruin his life. I didn’t say we let go as long as they’re making the right choices and doing what we would have them do. I’m saying when the child wants more independence than what we are giving them we will create tension and friction for ourselves. Your child will be creating their own tension and friction for themselves if that’s happening.

But we create it for ourselves when our level of parenting or authority in their lives doesn’t line up with the level of independence that they choose to live from. Are you with me? Now, again, this can happen at all different ages of the child’s life. But eventually we end up with an adult child at which point in theory, in a perfect world we both have equal amounts again, of decision-making in our own lives. We have an independent child. There’s no more one up, one down position. There’s just two equal people in an adult relationship.

Again, I realize that it’s not an ideal world, that that doesn’t always happen. But in theory that is the way we develop as human beings. Now, here’s the interesting thing. As that relationship continues oftentimes we as parents, as adults now start to move down the scale in terms of our ability to care for ourselves.

Maybe we get sick, maybe we just become more fragile in various ways, maybe we really have some kind of illness. Maybe we develop dementia or Alzheimer’s, or something like that that puts us in a really far one down position requiring a child or someone else to be that one up authority taking care of us. Ultimately we will all get older and die. So, whatever that looks like of course, very different for all of us. But I like to picture the child continuing to move up the scale of responsibility, capability, independence, all of those things.

And we just sort of continue to move down, so we go from the child being completely one down and us completely one up to sort of the opposite where we’re one down and they’re one up. Isn’t that kind of fascinating to think about? And if you think about what that means in reality and how challenging that is for everyone, and how much we resist redefining ourselves in relationship to people in our lives, especially our children, then it makes sense that these relationships would be so complicated.

It makes sense that it would be so challenging to navigate because it’s so hard to know what our role is in relation to one another. And what the child wants in terms of our support, help, opinion, involvement, etc. is often not going to match what we think it should be or what we desire. I think that’s one of the most common things I hear in relationships with adult children is. And I’ve coached many, many people in both situations. I’ve coached the parent of adult children and I’ve coached adult children about their parents.

And the most common thread I see when I’m coaching the adult child is either I wish my parents were more involved in my life, I wish that they were more interested in what’s going on. I wish they wanted to come to my kids’ soccer game or watch my kids on occasion etc. Or I wish they would give me some space. I wish they didn’t feel like they need to be at every game or come to everything. I wish I could have some independence to raise my own family without feeling like they’re right there all the time. It’s the most common thing I coach on.

And same for the parent of that adult kids. Most common thing is I’m worried about my child. And I’ve suggested these things and I wish they would change in this way but they don’t want to hear my opinion, they don’t like that, or even they don’t want me in their life in the way I want to be in their life. Or, my child wants so much of my time, or attention, or for me to help out in various ways, or take their kids etc. And I want some freedom to live my life. I don’t want to be responsible for all their problems, I’ve already done that, it’s their turn.

Now, of course there are many other different situations that come up in these relationships, different challenges, problems, trials, different things we coach on. But most commonly is a disconnect in what we believe the relationship should look like, a disconnect in how connected, or involved, or codependent you might say the relationship should be especially as adults. It’s so fascinating to me to watch. So, what do we do? What’s the solution?

Well, I think definitely being aware that the dynamic is going to change, throughout our entire lives it’s going to change. And being willing to examine it for yourself and redefine what you want from your relationship with your either parent or child. In this case I’m talking mainly to the parent. So, what do you want your relationship with your adult child to be? Now, remember I’m not saying that you would sit down and go, “I decided that I want to see my adult children every week.” Because they may not want to participate in that.

But you still get to decide what is my relationship with them going to be in terms of how am I going to think about them? If I want to be involved in their lives, what’s a respectful way for me to do that? You could even decide you want to invite them over every week. Just don’t be mad if they don’t choose to come necessarily. And of course, you can make requests and have conversations about it but redefine what your relationship is.

For some of you it’s needing to learn to say no, and to not people please, and to set boundaries, to say, “I love you so much and I’m just not able to come to all of those soccer games. I just choose not to, I have other things going on.” It’s just defining for yourself who do I want to be in relation to my adult kids? And what is a way for me to respect their wishes and their privacy, or their needs and everything and still show up as the person I want to be?

Now, I want to give you three specific strategies. And these will apply not just for your adult kids. We’re going to get into adult kids’ stuff like I said in much more detail in Be Bold starting next week, which the doors are open right now for just a few more days. So, if you’re not in there come and join us even if you just want to join us for the month of March, you can totally do that at jodymoore.com/membership. But for today I want to give you three parent child dynamic strategies to consider that will apply again to your kids at any age that come from some of the most common mistakes that I see when I’m coaching.

So, number one, when you’re making decisions about how involved to be in your child’s life, is this me trying to control them? Or is this just me just being a good parent? Should I hold them accountable to this thing or should I not? Should I have a rule about this or not? When it comes to those kinds of decisions I want you to make them from faith and abundance rather than from fear.

Here’s what I mean, rather than go, “Well, if I don’t”, let’s say you have a child vaping or something. Do I have consequences for that? And what are those consequences? Do I throw him out of the house for vaping? Do I simply take away his phone or something? Or do I just tell him that I’m disappointed and I don’t think he should be doing that but I just let it go and I don’t have a consequence? What is the right decision? I couldn’t know that. Only you know. Make the decision though from faith and confidence, don’t make it from fear.

Here’s what I mean. A lot of times we want to make these decisions from fear. If I don’t hold him accountable in the right way then he’s going to become a drug addict and ruin the rest of his life. That’s a fear based way to make a decision. Make it from faith and abundance. No matter what happens my child will have the exact life experience he’s supposed to have. It will be a 50/50 experience, half amazing, half challenging, now what? Who do I want to be? I’m not going to parent in order to try to control my kids, that doesn’t work.

I’m just going to parent because I want to feel like I’m being the best mom I can be. Now, what’s the answer? Either way it’s going to turn out amazing. Either way my child is going to learn some things and struggle in some ways. And we can have a connected relationship either way, now what? Do you see how that’s coming from faith and abundance rather than from fear? It’s the difference between parenting and controlling.

The second thing I want to offer you, and this is a big one, I feel really strongly about this. I might do a whole another episode on it. But I would love to see us do more parenting from mutual respect. There is a temptation to think about your child in a really disrespectful way simply because they are less mature than us at some points of life. Eventually maybe they become more mature than us. But when they’re younger they are less mature, they’re less developed, their brains are less developed. That does not mean they are less worthy of respect.

And I hear a lot of disrespect. I want you to just pause and listen to yourself, the way you think about your children. Do you talk to them in a way that we would say, “That’s kind of a disrespectful way to talk about or think about someone.” It is not uncommon for parents to say to me, “He’s just a really difficult child. He’s just kind of a brat. Or, “She lies, or she steals.”

I was coaching someone today who said, “My daughter steals.” And I said, “Okay, what does she steal?” “Clothes, eyeliner, lip gloss etc.” And I said, “Okay, so when did this happen last? Were you guys at Target and she’s putting stuff in her coat?” “Oh no, she took it from her sister’s room.” So, in her mind she’s probably borrowing eyeliner, and clothes, and lip gloss. But we just immediately label it steal. It’s pretty disrespectful to our children.

Now, I get it. It’s tough. They act in a way that makes it challenging for you to think about them in a respectful way. But I promise you, you will feel better and be a way more effective parent when you’re coming from mutual respect. There’s no reason you can’t have a conversation with your child from respect and teach them, “Hey, let me explain to you about boundaries, and stuff, and what we believe in our home, and why we respect one another’s stuff. And I want to hear your thoughts, what do you think about that? What do you think is okay to do?”

And you can guide your child through a respectful conversation rather than be frustrated with them and disrespect them in the way that you’re thinking about them. I promise you, they will feel that and read that.

I went through an elementary education teacher credential program after my bachelor’s degree. And in one of our classes I remember them talking about that the type of education that is most effective is the type that comes from mutual respect. We’re not really able to do a lot of it because of the way our school system is set up but ideally you would involve the kids in as much of it as possible in terms of making decisions about what are we even going to study and how are we going to go about studying that.

One example they gave was with a young group of kids, I want to say maybe first graders. And even the classroom rules they approached with mutual respect for the kids. They said, “Hey, kids, what do you think our rules should be?” And I remember this because the kids said, “The class rules will be no smoking.” These were first graders. “And no throwing books at the lights.” That was the classroom rules. And guess what? Everybody followed those rules and others because they were involved in the process of creating them.

Okay, no throwing books at the lights might not seem like a necessary class rule but does it hurt to add it to the list if they think it’s important? No. If it shows respect, it shows we value your opinion, even where you’re at developmentally, we value it, and appreciate it, and you’re not doing anything wrong. We’re not any better than you. When I say one up I don’t mean better. I mean a little bit more mature, a little bit more capable. But still 100% worthy of respect. We need to be having more of these discipline type conversations I believe from mutual respect.

And then the third and final tip I want to give you today is to focus more on who you want to be and less on who you wish they would be. And this my friends is just good advice for anything in your life because you have 100% control over who you want to be. And you have a tiny bit of influence on who they will be but nowhere near as much influence and certainly not the control that your brain thinks you would have or wishes you would have.

So, your brain is going to want to put all the focus on them, on what they’re doing wrong, on how we wish they were different, and how they’re so frustrating etc. That is where you spin in powerlessness as a parent. Focus less on who you want them to be and more on who you want to be. In other words, if I have a child who let’s say lies, we’ll go back to even the example I gave earlier of the child who takes things from other people in the house. I told her we’re not allowed to call that stealing anymore because it’s not stealing.

But anyway, let’s say you have a child that takes things that belong to other family members and you don’t want that in your home, you feel it’s disrespectful, it’s not okay. Alright, so let’s focus on who we want to be then. What kind of mother do I want to be? I asked her, “What’s the consequence for that?” And she realized after a minute that there really wasn’t one. And I said, “Okay, what do we want it to be?” My client said, “I honestly don’t know.”

Okay, that’s where we need to put our brain to work, figuring that out, not spinning on how the child is doing it wrong, and all the judgment and everything and disrespect that we have of the child. We need to put our brains to work on, okay, well, what do I want to do then? I’m going to have to get creative. I’m going to have to think outside the box. Maybe I’m going to have some respectful conversations with that child and other family members and we’re going to decide together, like no throwing books at the lights. I mean that wouldn’t be the thing.

But what will be the thing, let’s see what they can all come up with. Let me talk to this child about why she takes things. Does she feel that she doesn’t have what she needs? Does she need to be taught something about how to earn money and how to get more of what she needs? Or what’s going on? If we approach it from respect instead of from judgment we can learn a lot about our children and connect with them. And then again, put the focus on us. That’s hard enough to figure out. Who do I want to be? How do I want to enforce it?

What do I want that conversation to sound like? What’s the appropriate consequence that I’m going to be willing to enforce over and over again because the child may still choose to behave as she has been? So, keep the focus more on you and less on the child. Your brain will already be paying attention to what your child is up to. You don’t have to tell it to. You will have to tell it to focus on you. Who do you want to be? How do you want to feel about this child? How do you want to think about them? How do you want to make decisions on their behalf?

How do you make them from faith and abundance, not from fear? Again, we’re going to do a deep dive on navigating all of this with adult children. And I have a lot more tools that I’ll be offering you in the workshop in Be Bold, so I can’t wait to see you there. Have a beautiful rest of your day and I’ll talk to you next time. Bye bye.

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A favorite returning guest and friend of the podcast is on the show this week, and I couldn’t be more excited to be talking with him again. Thomas McConkie creates such amazing, unique work, which is why I keep having him back, and he’s here today to introduce us to his new course, Gospel Meets Dharma.

Thomas was raised LDS, but found it wasn’t quite clicking with him from a young age. When he discovered Buddhism as an adolescent and dedicated himself to a Buddhist life and practice, he realized everything he loved about Christianity was revealed through his deep exploration of Buddhism. It opened new doors of faith for him, and he’s sharing how Gospel Meets Dharma is an invitation to examine that process for yourself.

Join us this week as Thomas shares how both lineages of gospel and Dharma influenced his life, and why these two traditions ultimately enhanced one another for him. He’s sharing his thoughts on faith and wisdom traditions, and he’s giving us a sneak peek into what you can expect from his course.

I’m so excited to announce that I’ll be speaking at Time Out for Women this year. I would love to see you in your city and hang out, so get your tickets here!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * What led to Thomas creating his course, Gospel Meets Dharma. * The definitions of both gospel and Dharma. * Thomas’s thoughts on the difference in meaning between “wisdom tradition” and religion. * What the invitation of faith means to Thomas. * Why Thomas identifies as a bidirectional missionary. * How to be bidirectional in your relationships with other people.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 344: Gospel Meets Dharma with Thomas McConkie.

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode. Thanks so much for listening in. I’m so delighted that you’re here, after all this time you’re still here. We’re still learning, we’re still growing. Before we get into today’s episode which is an amazing episode, you’re going to love this one. You’re going to want to listen to it more than once and share it. I will introduce it to you in just a minute.

I just wanted to mention that I am so excited to be speaking at Time Out for Women this year. I’ve always kind of wanted to speak at Time Out for Women. I’ve always actually really wanted to speak at Time Out for Women. I first learned of Time Out for Women about eight or nine years ago when I lived in California. And one of my friends, Shelley, hey, Shelley, said to me, “Do you want to go to Time Out for Women?” And I was like, “I have no idea what that is but just based on the name, yes, I’m in.” And it turned out to be a really phenomenal conference and I’ve been many, many times since.

So, if you’re not familiar with Time Out for Women it’s a conference put on by Deseret Book, with just really amazing speakers and musicians. And so, I’ve always wanted to be a part of it and then just so thrilled to get to finally. And so, I thought I would just mention it so that if you’re thinking about coming I would so love to see you and we’ll get a chance to say hello in between, before and after the event. I am not speaking at all of them of course. As of now and we think that all of this is set pretty well.

But as we’ve learned over the last couple of years everything is subject to change based on COVID. But it’s looking like I’ll be speaking in Atlanta, Georgia, Raleigh, North Carolina, Logan, Utah, Cincinnati, Ohio, Boston, Massachusetts, Salt Lake City, Utah. And then in 2023 also it’s looking like San Antonio, Texas, Sacrament, California, Boise, Idaho and then my home town, Spokane, Washington.

So, I would love to see you if you live anywhere near any of those cities and want to come to Time Out for Women. And there are a bunch of other locations where Time Out for Women will be and I would highly recommend if you haven’t been that you go check it out. You don’t have to be a member of our church to go. There is always a lot of Gospel principles brought into the messages. But if you are a Christian you will love it. Or if you’re just open to spirituality at all you can totally apply it to yourself.

And you can just go to timeoutforwomen.com, check it out, get your ticket, let’s hang out, come and see me. Okay, so Thomas McConkie is someone I consider to be a dear friend. And as I was preparing to just record this intro for you I realized I’ve actually never met Thomas McConkie in real life. We feel like we’re friends anyway. I consider him a friend. He’s definitely a friend of the podcast. This will be, I think, the third time we’ve had him on. And it’s always the most uplifting conversation listening to Thomas McConkie.

So, he has a pretty interesting story. I’m not going to go into that right now. You’ll hear enough of it in my conversation with him. But he also just creates such amazing work. He’s equal parts intelligent, educated and open, and there’s just a softness about him that I just really appreciate. I always feel my spirits sort of softened and my heart opened up after I get the opportunity to talk to him. So, I’m very excited today to share this conversation with you that I had recently with my friend, Thomas McConkie. Here we go.

Thomas: Congratulations on your book.

Jody: Thank you so much.

Thomas: Also, I heard the interview on Faith Matters, it was really cool.

Jody: Yeah. Thank you.

Thomas: Yeah, totally.

Jody: And congratulations to you on being a new dad.

Thomas: Thank you.

Jody: That’s very exciting. I want to start with that. Tell me, how old is your son now?

Thomas: He’s 19 months.

Jody: Okay. Goes fast, huh?

Thomas: Totally. How many kids do you have?

Jody: I have four.

Thomas: Okay. Well, can I ask the age range? This is a lot more meaningful to me now as a parent.

Jody: My oldest is 15, and then I have a 14 year old, they’re only 18 months apart. And then I have a big gap because of how close the first two were. So, I have an eight year old and a six year old. So boy, girl, boy, girl, very fun. What is your little guy up to these days?

Thomas: He’s toddling around. He’s saying his first words, getting into every cupboard in the house, that kind of thing.

Jody: Fantastic. Sounds like he’s right on track.

Thomas: Totally, it’s really cool. My wife’s out of town. Actually, my wife left town this morning, the first time she’s been apart from our son since he was born. And it’s my first father son weekend with my son ever.

Jody: Okay, you’ve got this, dad.

Thomas: So, grandma’s here to cover while I’m talking to you. But other than that, it’s just me and all the chaos that might ensue.

Jody: It’s so good for both of you.

Thomas: It’s cool, totally cool.

Jody: Well, congratulations, that’s exciting.

Thomas: Thank you.

Jody: I’m loving your new course, Gospel Meets Dharma.

Thomas: Thanks for taking a look at it, yeah.

Jody: Yeah. And I apologize, anyway, I had some tech issues getting it back and forth. But I’ve been listening to it pretty intensely for the last 24 hours now but I’m really enjoying it.

Thomas: Well, that’s good of you, thank you, appreciate that.

Jody: It’s amazing. So, let’s begin with your creation of this course. Who did you create this for?

Thomas: Good question. It’s very much a passion project for me. I was raised Christian. And for whatever reason it wasn’t clicking with from a young age. And for whatever reason, Buddhism did click with me as an adolescent. And I really dedicated myself to a Buddhist life and a Buddhist practice. And then deep, deep, deep into my Buddhist practice I was probably 13 or so years in. I realized that everything I loved about Christianity was kind of revealed through a deep exploration of Buddhism.

So, I guess the kicker for me is that I was amazed and so grateful that such a different tradition, such a foreign tradition to me and most of us in the United States, that that could actually open up new doors of faith for me in my home tradition which means so much to me. So, it was such a meaningful experience for me to come into a deeper life of faith via another tradition. I thought, wouldn’t it be cool if other people got interested in the idea of becoming more creative. To put it in your language which you speak so beautifully, which I can barely hold a candle to.

But our thoughts in a really significant way determine our outcomes. So, if we’re given a certain kind of thinking from a particular tradition then in some ways that can constrain us. But if we learn new ways of thinking, new possibilities through other traditions that can actually deepen our capacity to be creative in our own tradition. So that was my experience. And I wanted to share that joy with people. And so, I just kind of tucked away in a cave for a while and came up with Gospel Meets Dharma.

Jody: You know what I love about that answer? Is I hear, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I hear you saying, when I ask you, who did you create this for? It’s sort of you created it because it was an expression of something really powerful within you. And of course, we hope as we express and share our experiences that it will possibly touch someone else. But the main motivator has to be that it is your own experience and it is a passion. And sharing that with others is a part of our human experience.

But I’ve never sensed that you have a strong agenda of where your work goes or what happens with it. I think that I love how you follow that passion, you follow what feels good and true to you. That’s the only way to do it really.

Thomas: Well, coming from someone who knows that path deeply, that means a lot, Jody. And that’s exactly right. It was kind of an overflowing of joy for me, just deep passion and to the extent that other people feel that joy, wonderful. And if they’re not into Gospel, or Dharma, or anything, that’s cool too. People will find their way.

Jody: And as I listen to you in this course, especially as you set up the idea of – I know you take a very delicate approach of not wanting to tell anyone what they should think, or do, or even to define things in a way that might be limiting. But I hear you describe, again, like you sort of just said, that these two traditions for you really enhanced one another. And I love that. That’s been my experience of course with the Gospel and then the tools of human behavior and thought work, the same thing I thought.

Thomas: Yeah, exactly. No, exactly.

Jody: Yes. It was these two things support one another for me. That’s not to say that it’s for everyone. I think that probably everyone if they got still and considered it, could find things. For some people it’s music that supports their faith. For some people it’s the arts or it’s science. I always think about President Uchtdorf always talking about being a pilot and his experience of understanding that whole world.

All of these things that we have, all of these tools I do think that when we access the truth and wisdom within them there is a lot of overlap. There is a lot of support of them. And I love the invitation that this course provides to examine that.

Thomas: Yeah. No, my heart sings because what you just said is really what the course is about on the surface. It’s like there’s this guy, he’s into Christianity and he’s into Buddhism. And people could say, “Well, maybe I’m into Christianity and Buddhism, maybe I’ll give it a try.” And that’s cool, I think one could learn a lot about Christianity and Buddhism in the course. But you pointed to the much deeper value I hold on the course which is my personal path has been is what I call Gospel and Dharma. You named that for you Gospel and principles of human behavior, thought work etc.

It’s the practice of really loving what we love and letting these beautiful lineages and traditions influence us in unique ways and owning that. And signing that in a full throated way to others. That’s really what the process is and I can, you know, you got it from the inside out already.

Jody: I love it. So, I know this question I wanted to ask you, I don’t mean to try to get you to oversimplify what are complex subjects. But I just want to make sure we begin with, you know, originally I was thinking, well, the first thing I need to ask him to define is what is Dharma. But I also think it will be important if you would speak to that briefly but then also speak to what do you mean by Gospel as well?

Thomas: Sure. And as you know, I talk about this at some length in the course too. I kind of start off with what do I even mean by Gospel and Dharma. Words mean different things to different people. So let me just come to this fresh and consider, I’ll start with Gospel. I think of the literal meaning of Gospel when I think of Gospel which is good news. And what’s the good news? In a sense I picture Jesus coming back from 40 days of fasting and he cries repentance. But we hear repentance in a modern day and think repent because I’ve been bad and I’ve got to clean up my act.

And we sometimes associate repentance with I’ve screwed up and there’s guilt and shame involved. To me when I really feel the Gospel and Jesus’ original message right out of the desert, it’s repent in the sense of turn towards the good news. You do not realize how good you have it. You do not realize how willing the Father is to give you his kingdom. So, everything that falls under that, everything that flows out of the Gospel, to me it’s the good news that God loves us beyond our wildest imaginings.

And if we’re willing to open our hearts up to that reality we can hardly believe how divine human life can be. That’s Gospel, that’s something in there, something about it, yeah.

Jody: Yeah, I love that, yeah. I want to just – this just came to my mind, again, I think what I love about your course is the invitation to hold these complex concepts and words even. We went to church recently and there was a gentleman standing outside the church with a sign saying, ‘repent now’ and he was yelling a lot of things about how the Mormons are terrible and things like this. And it sort of startled my son as we walked into church. And I was trying to explain to him that this man was saying some of the same words, he was saying repentance, he was saying Jesus Christ.

The actual words weren’t all that different from the doctrine we teach in our church. But I tried to point out to my eight year old, “Notice how different it felt though. Notice that the way the message was being delivered and the intention behind it possibly.” Wasn’t like you said, the good news of the Gospel. It wasn’t a love based approach and so there is a spirit there that is hard to put into words, hard to define. And I think that’s what you’re saying, when we talk about Gospel it’s good news even though it includes words like repentance and things.

Thomas: That’s a beautiful insight, I love that. And I agree, the Gospel is subtle, it requires something beyond words of us to open up to it. And I love that story, it’s powerful, yeah.

Jody: Okay. So, let’s talk about Dharma.

Thomas: Dharma, so this is probably a less familiar word to most listeners. Most people in the western world and you know what? I’ve lived in Asia for years. It’s not like it’s a familiar word to people in Asia nowadays, maybe a 1,000 years ago it was more familiar. Dharma, what do I think of? Again, the root meaning of Dharma it means something like law or structure. But it’s not pointing to the laws of man, the laws of human beings. It’s the greater law. I actually heard one commentator describe it as the ineffable cosmic law.

It’s the intelligence and the order by which all of creation hangs together. And actually, when I think about Dharma as a Latter Day Saint I think about a belief I hold really deeply, that if we learn the laws of creation, if we learn to follow the laws and principles of creation and divinity we ourselves become more divine. So, to me the Dharma is like let’s pay really close attention in a particular way to the law, the great law and laws that hold everything together. Let’s learn to be very obedient to them, obedient in the sense of it brings us joy to move in harmony with the principles of divinity.

And Buddhism, so when I say that, I’ve never thought of it like that. It’s just come out, I think you’re inspiring, or inspire your beautiful listeners.

Jody: I’m sure it’s me, it’s all me.

Thomas: It’s so harmonious with my deepest values in the Gospel. And yet the path they prescribe is unique and it’s one that’s been a real source of joy for me to observe my own feelings and to pay attention in a mindful way to moment to moment life. Those are kind of distinctly Buddhist qualities. But I think they bring us to somewhere – the Buddhist path brought me to a place where I could finally appreciate how radical and beautiful the Gospel is.

Jody: I love that, okay. So, one of the things I noticed in this course that I just wanted to sort of understand a little better is that many times you refer to both the Gospel and Buddhism in other cultures and traditions. You use the term wisdom tradition versus religion. And I’m just curious about that.

Thomas: Yeah. Wisdom tradition. So, I find, I’ve been teaching full-time the last 10 years kind of sharing the path of meditation with people, principles of human development. I find that people hear the word ‘religion’ and not everybody but many people nowadays have some negative associations with what religion means. They might think it means closemindedness, they might associate it with some kind of prejudice or things like that, religion at its worst.

When I say wisdom tradition I am invoking the power that the truth of what flows through human traditions. So, to me, wisdom tradition, it’s a way of kind of stepping away from a word that maybe doesn’t work for some people. And opening up a conversation to all human beings in my world view are born of light. We have the light of Christ. We have the capacity to discern, Joseph Smith says that truth tastes good. It’s so palpable we can just taste it like a ripe peach dripping down our chin kind of thing.

So, wisdom tradition, it points to, look, we all know wisdom. When we hear truth, when we feel wisdom, we know it so let’s celebrate that and not get caught up with places where religion has maybe gone wrong in the last few thousand years, something like that.

Jody: That’s pretty beautiful. Yeah, it feels more open to me, wisdom tradition versus an interpretation through our own experience. But the word ‘religion’ does tend to imply a more linear sort of, even I would say a spiritually immature way of thinking about the direction, and guidance, and principles that we’re taught through our faith.

Thomas: Yeah. No, I have a similar experience. I think some people can feel boxed in by the word ‘religion’. I personally don’t. I work with and counsel a lot of people that say, “I’m spiritual, not religious.” And I say, “I can’t be spiritual without religion.” I love religion, but I’m a Wortham McConkie, I would say that.

Jody: That’s true. Okay, I also wanted to dive into the topic of faith for just a moment.

Thomas: Yeah, this was a big one in the course. I really spent time on this.

Jody: Yeah. Why don’t you set it up first of all. Tell me why it was such an important part of the course.

Thomas: Well, yeah, I’m almost tempted to ask you what your experience of faith is? Or if you had any impressions from the course itself. And if you want to point right back, I’ll take it.

Jody: Yeah, really immediately piqued my curiosity when you started talking about faith because it is an interesting and complex topic. It’s one that I find that the skill and this is something I talked about in my book is that the skill of being able to believe something that isn’t provable, that maybe everybody doesn’t believe. I always say, “I don’t have any right to believe that actually.” I have no business believing it, yet I choose to believe it anyway.

And that has been a skill that I have intentionally nurtured in other areas of my life in terms of even just my business or my family. If the belief causes me to be my best self, if it connects me. So, I’m not talking about, also not be thoughtful about what I choose to believe. But if believing it gives me a feeling of abundance, and love, and inspiration, and excitement, I think those are good things. And so, the practice of believing whatever I choose to believe has served me really well. In your course here you talked about the definition given by Paul.

Thomas: Paul Tillich, yeah.

Jody: Of being ultimately concerned. Now, here’s my question for you and I’d love you to speak to any part of this you want to. But when you first gave that definition I noticed myself pushing back on it a little bit because of the word ‘concerned’ which I interpreted as worried until I listened a little further and I realized, I don’t think necessarily and you tell me, that he didn’t mean being ultimately worried.

I think maybe he means being ultimately aware, being ultimately conscious about or even I like to think of it as considering my own influence on and the way in which I’m influenced by other things in the world. So, I don’t know. How would you pull that definition apart?

Thomas: Well, I love the question, I love the way you asked the question, so thank you. Yes, I can’t remember the exact words but I do quote Tillich who was a big Christian theologian thinker of the 20th century. And he says something to the effect of, “Faith is the state of being ultimately concerned.” And actually, as we kind of take on the subject of faith in this conversation, I think back to the conversation, the exchange you and I just had about Gospel, and Dharma, and religion, and wisdom tradition.

Something similar going on, I actually feel enlivened by the word ‘faith’. I love the invitation to have faith. And yet I’ve found working across communities the last 10 years that some people don’t respond to that term. It’s not spacious enough for them. Tillich I look to because when he says, “Ultimate concern”, I think you’re right, if we were to think about I’m worried about something, that’s not very inspiring perhaps. But I hear his words as faith is the state of being ultimately engaged.

In the sense because my ultimate concern is love for my family, love for my neighbor, love of God because that’s my concern I’m totally engaged. That’s the deepest meaning of my life. When push comes to shove, you asked me, what’s the purpose of life? It’s that this is where I put my heart. When Christ says, “Help me out with the exact language.” Where your heart is there your treasure shall be also. That’s the quality of where you put your heart, what you care about, what you value, that’s your ultimate concern. And we all have ultimate concern.

We live in a modern time where people can say, “I don’t have faith. I don’t have beliefs. I don’t believe in all that stuff you believe in.” Yeah, but you have concern just like me, those are things you care about. Those are things you would not give up in this life that are precious to you. So, let’s have a conversation about what we love, what we value and what’s precious to us. Let’s have a conversation about where we put our hearts. And that’s a little bit how I frame the conversation of faith to kind of make a big tent for the conversation.

Jody: I love it. It’s such a fascinating – I just find that the way you present it in this course is very thought provoking which I think is the point of it all.

Thomas: That’s a big compliment. Yeah, I hope so. I hope people take the content and then feel bigger after this, or more spacious, they feel more creative and flexible, all that stuff, yeah.

Jody: I was wondering if you would speak a little to – I love again the inclusivity of different ways of describing truth and different ways of helping people return to love, one of the terms you use. You talk about for example being a bidirectional missionary. I love that term.

Thomas: Yeah, it’s good, Shinzen Young coined that term to my knowledge. And it’s a great one. I mean I tell a story. There’s a Jesuit priest by the name of Father William Johnstone who was born in the early 1900s. And as a part of the Jesuit Order he was sent to Japan to share the Gospel with Japan. And he wasn’t there long before he was just totally struck by the beauty, the aesthetic of Zen Buddhism, the temples, the dress, the, how do these monks just sit still on their cushions for hours at a time? What’s going on there?

He got curious about it and he took up the practice of Buddhist meditation just to start to, you know, as a gesture like, hey, I’m interested in you guys too. I don’t just want to talk all about me the whole time kind of thing. Before he knew it he was being converted to certain truths that the Zen Buddhists were in a position to share with him in a deep way. And he found the more he opened up to the deepest truths, what was precious, the ultimate concerns of the Zen Buddhists in Japan, he found they were even more willing to hear about the Gospel of Christ.

So, it was going both ways and it’s super inspiring to me because to me that’s how friendship works. If I’m not willing to listen to what Jody cares about, you could be really polite, and I think you are in fact very polite. And you’re a much better listener than most human beings. So, you could listen to me for a while. But if it’s not bidirectional, if it’s not flowing in both ways it’s not going to bring us both more to life. So that’s the bidirectional missionary that I talk about in the course.

Jody: It’s challenging I will say too, also not to have an agenda especially when you put yourself in a certain role, whether you’re a missionary, I know I’ve worked with salespeople in the past who have an objective of selling something. And there’s nothing wrong with that but you have to keep in mind the full human experience and we don’t tend to respond well to somebody else’s agenda. It has to be a mutual fit. And that’s all we’re doing both as missionaries or in any other endeavors. We’re looking for the people that want what we have to offer.

And a part of like you said, a part of that offer is a receiving of what they have to give.

Thomas: Totally. You know who I’m thinking of in this moment, who I think you’ll be familiar with is Byron Katie who does her own kind of thought work. And this question she asks like, “Okay, is that true? Yes/No. Do you know it’s true?” And often when we get to that question, do I know it’s true? It’s like, well, I don’t know, know it’s true. So, when it comes to bidirectional missionary work, it’s like, okay, what I care about. I care about the wellbeing of this soul, this soul that I’m sitting across from.

Do I know what’s best for this soul? Probably not, in the scope of things. I think God knows what’s best for the preciousness of a soul. But I’m just here to try to be loving. So as a bidirectional missionary I think that question of like, I actually don’t know what’s best for this person. So, if I can just be really open and just a really good listener, good things happen.

Jody: Speaking of parenting, that will come up a lot. I notice with my kids that it’s tough not to think that I don’t know what’s best for them. But I heard Richard Dyer on the Faith Matters podcast recently describe it as letting go of trying to control others even our own children, and recognizing that we are simply stewards over them for a time. And then we can offer the gifts that we have found to be useful but ultimately they have to figure out what they will take, how they will use it and that can be challenging, it can be tough.

Thomas: For sure, yeah. No, you encapsulated it perfectly. And that’s a bit of the inquiry in the course. How can we be bidirectional when we come into relationship with other people? Yeah.

Jody: The other thing I wanted to ask you about and I heard you speak a little bit about this on the Faith Matters podcast, which I loved that episode you did recently. You talked a little bit about the way you think about the gathering of Israel in a slightly different way than we tend to talk about it, at least in the LDS tradition. If you would speak to that topic. I found it so fascinating.

Thomas: Yeah. No, I think I know what you’re talking about and you can steer me here. And I don’t know if it’s an unorthodox way I think about it, you tell me, you can be the judge of orthodoxy here. But I think what I said in that conversation with Tim and Aubrey is that when I feel the gathering of Israel in my heart, I feel not just one tradition on the planet swallowing up every other tradition. I picture all traditions on the planet, and all people, and the Earth herself swallowed up into something unimaginably divine.

And I think all of us no matter what church we belong to or not, what faith tradition we were brought up in, we have a tendency to think, when they see things my way we’re all going to get along a lot better. And the thing is there’s truth to that. I think the faith tradition you and I share does have precious and unique truths to share. So, there’s truth there. But then I think the subtlety for me is we know that our beliefs are changing, they’re evolving. We know that more and more truth is being revealed every day to us.

So even our own tradition is being taken up into something greater than itself. Our church is transcending itself and being brought up, gathered up into what I call in the course, it’s like the meta tradition, is the tradition beyond tradition. And so that image to me, it’s a spacious place that leaves room for all of us to be humble, to be openminded about the other traditions we encounter and to continue to change and to evolve. I don’t know if I got it quite right.

Jody: Yeah. No, that’s exactly, it really resonated for me as like you said, when we hear truth we recognize truth and whether it’s unorthodox or not, I don’t know. But it felt to me as a more, you know, there’s certain times when language fails us. And so, I think in the past sometimes our desire to make things understandable, and simplify, and use our limited vocabulary to do so leaves something to be desired. And I just thought it was a much more expansive way to think about that term which is again, like I said, the invitation that I felt in this course.

So, I would encourage everyone, and we’ll tell them in just a minute where to find it. I had this experience just this morning, literally an hour and a half ago. So, it’s a little bit fresh in my heart but it felt sort of relevant to your course here. So, I thought maybe we’d end by dissecting this a little bit. Again, my eight year old and six year old who ride the school bus to school. They get a little nervous about riding the bus. They’re nervous about getting on the right bus coming home and sometimes the bus is running late and that makes them nervous.

And anyway, it’s kind of a tender part of their lives. And they have this bus driver who they love, Mr. Earl. He’s an older man who’s just kind and they’re comfortable with Mr. Earl. And he’s been gone since just before thanksgiving. And they’ve had substitute bus drivers. And so originally they told me, “Mr. Earl’s on a trip, he’ll be back.” And then enough time went by that I said, “I don’t think he’s on a trip. Did he have surgery or something?” And they said, “Yeah, we think he had surgery and he’s recovering, and he’s coming back.”

And so now it’s middle of January, I take them to the bus today, still substitute bus driver. And I said, “Maybe Mr. Earl’s not coming back, maybe he doesn’t drive the busy anymore.” And my six year old daughter, she said, “Oh no, mom, he is, he’s coming back.” We just found out that he didn’t have surgery, his wife died. And she said, “He’s just at home, he’s looking at pictures of her and he’s crying. But when he’s done crying he’s going to come back.” My heart was obviously touched for Earl but I thought about my daughter too.

She wasn’t emotional at all as she shared this, it was just very matter of fact to her. And I thought about how she’s, you know, immature state of being able to understand the full human experience. And she’s sort of annoyed that her world has been interrupted by not having her regular bus driver. But she has gotten a small taste of someone else’s suffering. And the only way she can describe it is in this sweet simple way, “He’s looking at pictures of his wife and he’s crying. And when he’s done crying he’ll be back.”

Again, I still don’t know what to make of this experience, it’s very fresh for me. But I felt sort of a parallel to my own experience with both my religion and the things that I’m learning from people like yourself about other traditions. I’m 47 years old, I still kind of feel like I’m at a six year old level of starting to be able to understand these concepts which I think is kind of awesome. I like the idea that there’s so much, a deeper experience to be had with all of it.

Thomas: Yeah, that’s just outrageously beautiful, Jody.

Jody: I really do appreciate people like yourself. It requires a certain level of courage because like you said, some people may not like the way you’re pushing back on certain concepts. I don’t know if you’ve had that experience at all. That’ll be another podcast episode for another day.

Thomas: What do you do when people throw things at you in the street?

Jody: When people don’t like it, they accuse you or call you certain names. But I do, I just appreciate the invitation that you provide. Before you tell people where to get this course and share any final thoughts I wanted to highlight there are still sections of your course I have yet to listen to that I’m really excited about. And I just want to throw some of the titles out there so people get an idea that you have. Actually, I did listen to this one, the Holy Spirit and Impermanence. That was a fascinating one.

Mindfulness and Repentance, The Cross and The – is it Bodhi Tree, Bodhi?

Thomas: Yeah, that’s right, The Bodhi Tree.

Jody: The Bodhi Tree, The Human Dilemma, Sin and Suffering, Great Faith, Great Doubt, Great Perseverance. I’m really excited to listen to the rest of this. What final thoughts do you want to share with us today, Thomas?

Thomas: Truthfully the story of your daughter is just resonating in my heart, just that the tremendous trust in life I feel in that story. And the way you’ve taken it and to just come to your own faith and your deepest questions as a child. One of my favorite teachings in the New Testament from Jesus is you must become as a child to enter the kingdom. That can be taken in different ways, but in the moment it feels like that quality you shared from your own heart and your daughter’s heart.

If we think we have it figured out, our minds kind of harden. And the possibilities narrow until we’re just living the same day over and over again and everything’s stale. But when we become as that six year old again full of wonder and we have all the learning to do in the world, the kingdom opens to us. We pass into it and that’s the best news I know.

Jody: For me, it requires constant effort to keep myself open and softened to it, especially in today’s world, it’s easy to tighten up against that part of us.

Thomas: Right. Well, you’re a blessing to so many of us to help us stay soft, and limber, and open, I’m grateful for who you are, Jody.

Jody: Thank you, thank you, likewise. So where can people find this course?

Thomas: I don’t have the link memorized but we can put it up in the show notes. There’s a gospelmeetsdharma.com, but people don’t know how to spell Dharma.

Jody: It has an h in it.

Thomas: It has an h, guess where? No. So we’ll put it up.

Jody: Yeah, we’ll definitely put it in the show notes, Gospel. I bet you, Google will spell it right for you too if you just search it in but yeah, we’ll put it in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much for this course. Thank you for taking the time to come on the podcast.

Thomas: Thanks for the conversation, Jody.

Jody: You bet.

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The post 344. Gospel Meets Dharma with Thomas McConkie appeared first on Jody Moore.

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If you’ve been here for any length of time, you have already heard and know the difference between facts and thoughts. But while we know that intellectually and can even identify most of our thoughts as separate from facts, we don’t always recognize them in the moment. And if there’s one mind-blowing skill to focus on to transform your life, this is it.

The truth is facts are benign. In other words, they aren’t harmful, painful, or hard to deal with. They just are. And the more benign you can make the facts of what’s going on for you, the more leverage you’ll gain in getting to the true source of whatever you’re struggling with.

Join me this week as I share some common examples of what clients have told me are the facts of their lives but are in fact actually thoughts. There will almost always be thoughts that you believe are facts, but I’m offering tips for pausing to assess if this is serving you so you can fully exercise your agency because I promise, you have so much more control over your life than you think you do.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * What a fact is. * 5 common examples of what people have told me are facts but are actually thoughts. * The power of recognizing the difference between facts and thoughts. * How to start making the facts of your life and whatever you’re going through benign. * The thoughts that I’ve decided aren’t useful to me. * How to choose thoughts that serve you and leave those that don’t.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 343: Facts Are Benign.

Hello everybody, welcome to episode 343. How we doing? How’s February going? Mine’s trucking along slowly but surely. We have a countdown on our fridge because we’re going to Disneyland again. We were just at Disneyland it feels like over thanksgiving. But we told our kids that we would go right before spring break. We heard that’s supposed to be a good time to go, a not too busy time. And so, we have a countdown on the fridge to Disneyland.

I’m excited to go to Disneyland but I’m even more excited to enjoy some California sunshine. So hopefully we will get some while we’re there.

I want to talk to you today about this topic and I’ll tell you why. I mentioned this before but we recently did a weeklong program called Train Your Brain. And on the first day I talk a lot about facts versus thoughts. And as you guys who have been listening to the podcast know, I talk about that a lot here on the podcast. But I sort of broke it down on that first day of Train Your Brain.

And then we spend most of the time on Train Your Brain actually doing coaching. But it was so powerful what happened that day because I told myself we’re just going to keep it simple and we’re going to keep the focus on the difference between facts and thoughts. And sometimes a part of me when I keep things simple, worries that people are going to be bored and they’re going to go, “We already know that. We’ve heard that before.” And you do know that, you have heard that before if you’ve been around here for very long.

But I’m telling you, all we know that but we don’t really know the difference always. We don’t recognize in our own brains and our own selves the difference between facts and thoughts and the power of it is mind blowing. I’m telling you, you don’t even have to do some of the more advanced things I teach about questioning your thoughts, and then choosing a new one, and redirecting and all of that.

You don’t have to do any of that at times when you just recognize that what you have been viewing as a fact, or just the way the world is, or the way you are is actually not just the way the world is, it’s your interpretation of the way the world is. That knowledge will change your life, it will change your experience, it will change you.

And another thing that I’m in the midst of doing right now is teaching a group of amazing, brilliant coaches in my advanced certification coach program. And we have been talking about this as well that our job as coaches, and this is just simply based on the way that I coach, the way that we all were trained at The Life Coach School is we don’t view our jobs as to give you advice. We think that would be very pretentious of us to claim that we know what you should do, that we could possibly advise you as to what you should do as coaches.

As humans we think we know what everyone should do but as coaches we understand the truth that we don’t. We just view our jobs as being the mirror for you with everything outside of your parents. The actual mirror is the mirror for your parents. If you want to see what you look like, what your clothes look like, what your hair looks like, you step in front of the mirror and the mirror shows you what you look like physically. Our job as coaches is to show you the rest of you, to show you yourself emotionally and mentally, and then you’ve got to do whatever you want with that.

I like that analogy anyway of the mirror because the mirror is neutral. When I stand in front of the mirror, the mirror doesn’t say to me, “You look chubby in those pants.” I just see myself in the mirror, it just shows me myself. And then I get to decide do I look chubby in these pants or not. The mirror doesn’t say, “You look gorgeous today.” I just look in the mirror and then I decide if I’m going to think I look gorgeous today. The mirror couldn’t care less. The mirror doesn’t hold back either. It’s not hiding things because it’s afraid I might not like that part. It just shows me what’s true.

And that’s what we’re trying to do as coaches. And so, one of the easiest ways to do that, that I want to teach you so that you can coach yourself is to notice the difference between facts and thoughts. Now, a lot of you who either have been listening to this podcast, or maybe you’re in Be Bold, or maybe you’ve worked with a coach before. You’re able to identify a lot of your thoughts. In fact, it’s not uncommon for clients to come to me and to say, “Okay, this is what’s going on and I know this is a thought. And I know this is just a thought. And I know this is a thought.”

And that’s all great and fine but there’s almost always some thoughts in there that you don’t realize are just thoughts. This is true for me too when I’m getting coached. I can identify 80/90% of my thoughts even. But there is that little 10% that I don’t even realize until someone points out to me, I’m thinking of it as just the way the world is and it’s actually just a thought. And again, this is what we try to do as coaches.

I have been teaching my advanced certification coaches that it’s sort of like I don’t need a mirror to see most of me. I can just look down and I can see that I’m wearing black jeans, and I’m wearing a grey sweater, and I have brown nail polish on. I can see 80% of me, maybe even 90% of me without a mirror. But there are parts of me I can’t see without looking in a mirror or a camera of some sort.

I cannot see my eyelashes if I don’t look in a mirror other than the tiny little periphery maybe I get out of them. I can’t see my nose without looking in a mirror unless I go cross-eyed and then I can see a tiny portion of it. But most of my face I cannot see without looking in a mirror. And that’s the part as coaches we’re trying to identify and point out to you. Yes, you’re aware that this is a thought, and that’s a thought, and this is a thought but did you know about this?

I always tell my coaches, it’s sort of like, yeah, they can say I’m wearing a grey sweater and black jeans but they can’t see that they have chocolate on their face without a mirror. My daughter’s six years old right now and she eats toast with Nutella for breakfast every morning. Go ahead and judge my parenting if you want. That’s probably not the best way to start out our day but that’s what we do, toast with Nutella, that’s what she likes. And inevitably she gets it all over her face.

And because she’s pretty short and all the mirrors in our house are pretty high up, she doesn’t want to be bothered to have to be able to see in a mirror so she’ll just say, “Mom, do I have chocolate on my face? Did I get all the chocolate off?” She’ll try to wipe it off with a napkin and inevitably she always has some chocolate on her face. She can’t see it without a mirror. She can see the rest of her body. She can see a lot of herself but not the chocolate on her face.

And that’s what I want to offer to you today. I want to show you the chocolate on your face and then you can do whatever you want with it. I don’t care if you have chocolate on your face. I’d still think you look adorable. But if you don’t want chocolate on your face when you go out the door to get on the school bus I’m going to point it out to you. And that’s what we do when we stop and go, “Wait a second, is this really a fact or is this a thought or a story?” Because the truth is facts are benign.

In other words, facts aren’t harmful. Sometimes I call them circumstances. Circumstances, facts, I’m going to use those words interchangeably. They don’t hurt. They’re not good or bad. They’re not painful. They’re not hard to accept. They’re not hard to deal with. They just are, they’re benign. And the more benign you can make the facts as you take a look at what’s going on for you, the more leverage you’ll get over yourself because the more awareness you’ll gain over the parts that are the true source of your pain, or your stuck-ness, or your spin, or whatever else is going on.

So, what you want to do is you take any scenario that you’re struggling with in your life. And you simply ask yourself, what are the facts? Now, I taught this, like I said, in Train Your Brain. And I explained that facts are just what happened, the things that we could prove, would be provable, the things that everyone would agree on, the things that ideally we could prove even scientifically without a shadow of a doubt and nobody would have a different interpretation of it than anyone else, those are facts.

And still I brought on probably four or five people after that and said, “Tell me the facts.” And they all started out giving me thoughts, thoughts that they thought were facts which is brilliant. I’m glad they did that because it’s such a great example of what our brains do and what I’m trying to teach you here. So, what I want to do is give you some examples of what people say to me that they think they’re just telling me the truth about what is.

And I want to point out to you that these are just thoughts. And my hope is that will enable you to do that for your own self with whatever you’re going through in your life right now, whatever you’re stuck, or struggling with, or want to see change. Now, I want to preface it by saying it’s not wrong to think these thoughts. Just because I say this is just a thought, doesn’t mean it isn’t a thought that you should think, that you might even want to think, or that might serve you in some cases. I just want you to know that it is just a thought, it’s not a fact.

So, a couple of these have again come from clients recently. And some of them I just recalled from previous coaching on others or myself. First one, I never finish anything. This is one that a client recently told me. She said, “My therapist and I sat down and we took a look and we’ve realized that I have some perfectionist tendencies or some OCD tendencies and I never finish anything.” And I said to her, “Okay, I never finish anything, is that a fact or a thought?” And she said, “That’s a fact.” That is not a fact, you guys. I never finish anything is not a fact, that’s a thought.

Now, immediately when I point that out and I say, “Wait a second, that’s not a fact, that’s just a thought.” She’s like, “Well, let me give you examples.” This is what we do, as soon as I tell someone it’s a thought, immediately they want to go to the evidence they have in their brain and prove to me that this thought is true. And again, you can keep the thought if you want to. I don’t care at all if you keep that thought. I just need to point out to you because I’m the mirror. I need to show you that that’s a thought that you’re thinking. That’s not a fact about you, you never finish anything.

I promise, you’ve finished probably more things than you’ve not finished in reality. You’ve just been thinking about recently all the things that you haven’t finished and noticing that. So, I finish things is a thought. I never finish anything is a thought. I mean seriously, even if we were to break it down and let’s say we took a specific example like I was making a quilt and I didn’t finish it. I still wouldn’t make that a fact because who’s to say what finished is?

I mean, honestly, could we ever really be done or could we always make it better? Could we say that no quilt is actually ever finished because there are always improvements that could be made on it? I don’t know, I’m just saying. Just notice it’s just a thought. If it’s a thought that serves you, that helps you be compassionate and understanding with yourself. And then it drives you to be more of the person you want to be in the world then great. I’m with you and your therapist, let’s keep that diagnosis, I never finish anything. But if it doesn’t, it is just a thought, you just want to be aware of it.

Here’s another one that I hear some version of this pretty frequently when people are telling me about their spouses, or boyfriends, or girlfriends, or partners. They’ll say things like this, “My husband is emotionally closed off.” Listen, your husband is emotionally closed off is not a fact, that is your thought. I know you have tons of examples you could give me and maybe even other members of the family would agree, and maybe even your husband would agree and say, “I am pretty emotionally closed off.” It doesn’t matter, that doesn’t make it a fact.

We can’t prove it scientifically. We can’t give him a blood test to see if that’s true. Some other people might say, “Compared to this person I know he’s actually very emotionally available.” I mean what does it mean to be emotionally closed off? We could never define that in a way that everyone would hands down, without argument, agree on. And your husband’s behavior, certainly subjective and changing from one moment to the next. So again, you can keep thinking it if you want to. I’m not trying to tell you you’re wrong.

I’m not trying to tell you your husband is emotionally available. I’m just saying, my husband is emotionally closed off is just a thought. How does it feel? How do you show up around your husband when you’re feeling that way and thinking that? And what result are you creating for yourself in your life from that thought?

Okay, here’s another one I get a lot. People will tell me about themselves when I start coaching them often. They’ll give me some background like, “You need to understand these things about me as sort of like the premise of what I’m going to tell you my problem is.” They might say something like this, “I’m just not a planner. I’m not good at planning.” And I’ll stop and say, “Whoa, I am not a planner, I’m not good at planning. That’s a thought, that’s not a fact.” And then they’ll kind of laugh and go, “Okay, yeah, I know that’s a thought.”

Seriously, 95% I bet of your description of yourself that you would give to me or anybody else would be thoughts, maybe even 99%. So little of who you are is actually a fact, most of it is a story, a series of stories and thoughts that you’ve believed about yourself, that you’ve observed in yourself and then you continue to make them true. You just are a person, you’re a human being. I mean I’d give you that as a fact. Much beyond that is just thoughts. It’s totally fine to have thoughts.

We’re always going to have thoughts about ourselves and our spouses etc. But you’ve got to know that they’re just thoughts and you’ve got to know that they’re powerful. They’re creating the way you feel about yourself, and who you’re becoming, and who you’re showing up as because your brain wants to be right about what you think more than it wants you to develop a healthy habit and change something in your life for the better. It wants to be right about what you think about you.

I hear a lot of thoughts about children that people don’t recognize they’re thoughts. They’re like, “Okay, well, I have four kids”, for example they may say, “I have four children and these are their ages.” And in my head I’m thinking, okay, that’s a fact, their ages are facts although some people would debate that even. Some people think that age is just a thought, but I would give age as a fact. And then they would say, “And this child is this way, and this one’s this way. And then this one, he is our most difficult child, he stirs up a lot of drama in the family.”

And I’ll say, “Wait a second, that’s a thought. You think you’re telling me about your family. You think you’re telling me about your children. You’re telling me your thoughts about your family and your thoughts about your children.” Again, I don’t have any judgment, I’m the mirror here just showing you yourself. I’m not telling you, you shouldn’t think that about your child, or that you shouldn’t think that about your family. I’m just saying those are thoughts that you’re thinking.

The good news about this is that thoughts are optional. I’m not talking about going all the way to thoughts you don’t believe but thoughts are optional and they’re creating your experience of your family right now. There’s no such thing as a difficult child, did you know that? There’s no such thing as a child that just stirs up a lot of drama, that’s really hard for everyone in the family to deal with. That’s your story. It’s okay to have the story. It’s also okay not to have that story.

Okay, sometimes people will tell me about a medical diagnosis and they want to make that the fact. And this is one where sometimes we’ll play with it. So, let’s say you get diagnosed with bipolar disorder, let’s say a psychologist says, “You have bipolar disorder.” Psychiatrist, psychologist, whoever. Now what I would say is a fact is a doctor gave me this diagnosis. But I still wouldn’t say you have bipolar disorder is the fact. I just wouldn’t, I mean not necessarily because did you know sometimes doctors change their diagnosis? Sometimes they’re wrong.

Doctors will be the first to admit that. I think it’s still useful to have a diagnosis in many cases but even that diagnosis is a thought. It’s their best guess. It’s still an informed guess. It’s an educated guess but that doesn’t make it a fact, that makes it a guess, it makes it a thought. I was just talking to a friend today who said, “Yeah, my husband’s been diagnosed as bipolar for years and suddenly he’s gone to another expert who says, “You’re not bipolar.”” I mean they’re just thoughts is all I want you to know. It might be a really useful thought, it also may not, it’s just a thought.

Okay, here’s another one I hear a lot. And I think that when we get thoughts from professionals, from people in authority, from people that we trust and respect then we want to make them facts. And I just want you to know that they’re still thoughts, even though again it might be a thought that you want to keep. The fact that you got it, that someone offered you the thought who we would label a professional or an expert in some way doesn’t make it a fact.

One that I hear people share a lot that they get from therapists is, “She triggers me, or he triggers me, or that event is very triggering.” This whole word trigger is just a thought. None of us have a trigger button. A gun has a trigger button. There’s a trigger that you actually push and it releases a bullet. We don’t have triggers, human beings, we just have bodies, and brains, and we have thoughts. And somebody might do something, or say something, or you might be in a certain environment and then your brain quickly offers you a thought.

But he triggers me, she triggers me, that’s very triggering to me is a thought. Again, it might be a thought that’s really useful for you. It might really help you to have compassion and understanding for yourself, and what situations and people that you want to avoid. It might help you have compassion for the way that your brain has been wired due to trauma etc. So, I’m not saying it’s not a useful thought. I’m just saying it is just a thought.

And there are times when I would say it’s probably really serving you that thought and there are other times when it’s not. There’s times when it’s disempowering you, when it’s causing you to give up your own power, and agency over yourself and to have to try to control people or events outside of you. It’s just a thought.

Here’s another one I hear that I don’t think people always realize is just a thought. They say to me, “Well, it’s just too late. I’m too old for that, or that ship has sailed, or I missed the best time to do that, the best time to invest in dotcoms was in the 90s.” I mean that’s just a thought. It’s too late, that ship has sailed. I hear this a lot about people looking into life coaching. They’ll say, “I mean I feel like I’m too late. I feel like the market’s already really saturated. I feel like there’s too many coaches.”

And that’s just one example of where I hear it. But that’s the one obviously I’m the most exposed to in my world. And I say, “How does that thought feel?” Or I was just coaching someone recently who said, “I’m a health coach.” And I know the market’s totally saturated of health coaches. I was like, “Whoa, how does that thought feel?” I think this was in my business coaching program this came up. “You know that’s a thought, right?” And she laughed and was like, “Well, yeah, just people say that all the time, there’s so many health coaches.”

I’m like, “Who cares that people say it all the time? It’s not serving you because you’re a health coach trying to find clients. It’s not a useful thought for you to walk around thinking.” Or is it? Let’s question it. Let’s put it in a model. Is it going to serve you or not? I don’t know. What I do know is it’s just a thought. It’s not a fact. We hear this in real estate too. “It’s a buyer’s market, or it’s a seller’s market. The market is great right now. The market is hot right now.” I mean those are all thoughts, you guys, they are. I’m sorry but they’re not provable facts.

What is a great market, or a buyer’s market, or a seller’s market, or a hot market? What does that even mean? We all have slightly different ideas of what that means. We all have slightly different interpretations of what that means. It’s not a fact, it’s a thought. Is it a useful thought? You decide. You decide by taking a look at how it makes you feel in your specific circumstance.

And then you decide based on whether or not that feeling is going to serve you and drive you to be who you want to be, and create what you want to create in your life. And if it’s not, I give you permission to stop thinking that thought.

Here’s another one that I love knowing that this is just a thought. It’s seriously, when I learned this probably seven years ago it changed my life because I used to think it and say it all the time as though it were a fact, it’s this. Are you ready? I don’t know. I don’t know what to do next. I don’t know what I want to order for dinner. I don’t know how to do the thing. I don’t know what I should say. I don’t know, period, I don’t know. It’s not a fact, did you know this? This was so mind blowing for me when I learned this. It’s not a fact, it’s just a thought. I don’t know.

And it’s a thought that for me I decided not useful, almost always not useful, I mean I could see maybe – actually that’s not true, there are times when I find it to be useful. For example, if somebody is asking me about somebody else’s business it’s useful for me to say, “I don’t know.” Because I don’t know. I don’t know what other people are thinking, or feeling, or what they should be doing, or any of that. But other than that, I can’t think of very many times when I don’t know serves me. So, I just tell myself, when I don’t know comes up, I just remind myself, well, that’s a lie.

Now, notice, I don’t know, is a lie, is a thought. I don’t know is a thought. But I don’t know is just a lie, is a thought that serves me really well. So, I choose that thought, that’s how I answer my brain when it says I don’t know. I say, “Well, that’s a lie.” Because if we did know, what would we say? If we were just to take a guess, what would we pick?

If it was totally figure out-able, if I was capable of getting in and figuring it out, and learning, and deciding, and if there is no right or wrong answer. And if there is just whatever feels like the right next move to me, and I do know all the wisdom lives within me and the way that the spirit guides me is internally. And if I channeled all that and I knew exactly what the right thing was to do or say then what? That’s a lot scarier to do, I’ll tell you. It’s a lot easier to just not know. I used to let myself off the hook all the time with I don’t know.

I just let myself stay in a safe easy space. It’s easier to not know than to risk a decision, and to risk committing to something, that’s a lot scarier, or to go out and try something and fail. That’s a lot less comfortable than just not knowing. But I don’t know is just a thought. It’s a thought that’ll keep you stuck in most cases, and spinning, and not progressing forward.

Here’s another thought that I just wanted to point out to you is just a thought. I miss him, I love him, I love that thing, I hate that thing, I just can’t stand this thing, I’m not a fan of that. Liking things, missing things, not missing things, these are all thoughts. Again, nothing wrong with thinking these thoughts necessarily anyway, you want to chuck them out. Do I want to keep thinking that thought? Do I want to keep liking this thing? Do I want to keep not liking that thing?

Food is a good one. I can’t help it, I just love chocolate. Did you know that’s a thought? That’s not an observation of yourself. That’s not you telling me about you, that’s you telling me your thought. I just love chocolate. I just hate wearing a dress. That’s a thought. Again, maybe totally fine, maybe even really useful for you to keep that thought, but maybe not, it’s just a thought, just saying.

Okay, the last one I want to mention. When I’m coaching clients any time they start with the word ‘obviously’, I know that they’re probably going to give me a thought that they don’t realize is a thought. Because it might be a thought that so many people in the world think and believe to be true, that now we’ve lost touch with the idea that it is just a thought. Again, not that it’s a wrong thought, or a problem thought, it’s just a thought.

So, for example people will say things like, “Well, I mean obviously I want my kids to be happy and successful. Obviously we want to focus on our health and take care of our bodies. Obviously we want to try to be on time for things. Obviously we want to respect other people. Again, many of these thoughts are thoughts that I would want to keep, if we put them into models we would see that they’re really useful. But occasionally some of them may not be.

I just want you to have the skill. This would be exhausting, I’m realizing now. If you’re thinking that I’m saying you should walk around all day and figure out these are all just thoughts, that’s not what I’m saying at all. 95, 98% of the time just let your brain have thoughts and let it do what it does. And even let yourself believe that those thoughts are facts.

But 3-5% of the time in the areas of your life that aren’t as amazing as you wish they were. In the areas of your life where you’re stuck, or worried, or stressed, or ashamed, or guilty, or overwhelmed, or not moving forward. Those are the areas where I want you to pause and go, “Okay, what are the facts here?” And then don’t be easy on yourself here. Really ask yourself, is that really a fact, would everyone agree hands down, and it’s very clear what we mean?

For example, it is 36 degrees outside is a fact. Do you see how benign that is? It’s actually really boring. It doesn’t mean anything until we add some context around it. It’s cold outside is not a fact, it’s a thought. It’s 36 degrees outside is the fact. Get tighter with yourself in terms of separating out facts from thoughts, you guys, in those few areas where you’re struggling. And I promise you, this practice alone will cause your whole world to explode in front of you in the best possible way.

It will help you see how much agency you have that you may not be exercising fully. Most of us are nowhere near fully maximizing our agency, we’re barely scratching the surface because we’re not embracing how much of our experience is up for grabs. So much of it is, my friends, separate out facts from thoughts. Remember, facts are benign. They are not harmful, they are not hurtful, they are not good or bad, they just are.

Alright you guys, have an amazing rest of your week and I’ll see you next time. Take care. Bye bye.

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I accidentally came across today’s guest on social media, and I just thought he was a genius. He has been giving me nuggets of inspiration and peace for around six months, and I finally reached out to ask if he’d come on the show. And once I’d gotten over how starstruck I was, we had a really fun conversation all about mindfulness.

Cory Muscara is a former monk, a podcaster, mindfulness advisor for the Dr. Oz Show, and a bestselling author! He’s a teacher of mindful leadership and positive psychology, and he’s been offering mindfulness retreats and workshops around the world for the past decade. His meditations have been heard over 10 million times in over 100 countries, and he’s here to share some of his wisdom on the podcast.

Tune in this week to hear Cory Muscara’s incredible story of his mindfulness journey. I know that so many of you want to bring more peace into your life, and hopefully, this insight from Cory shows you that this kind of emotional awareness is available to all of us, and how practicing mindfulness allows you to live a life full of the things you actually want to experience.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * The surprising reason why Cory found himself interested in mindfulness. * Where the practices of meditation and mindfulness have taken Cory in his incredibly interesting life. * Why even the most Type-A person can experience the benefits of mindfulness. * How a mindfulness practice brings resilience and safety even in uncertain or uncomfortable situations. * Where our sense of hope, agency, and optimism comes from as human beings, and how paying attention to it allows you to create a future you’re excited about. * Why Cory believes that the most important and profitable investment you will ever make is investing time or money in yourself and your growth. * The importance of embracing the concept of the Beginner’s Mind. * How you can bring even just a short mindfulness practice into your everyday, no matter how busy you are.

Mentioned on the Show: * When you’re ready to take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10X level, then come check out Be Bold. * If you’re a coach who is already certified through The Life Coach School, I want to help you take your coaching to the next level. Interested? Get on the waitlist here. * Follow me on Instagram or Facebook! * *Grab the Podcast Roadmap! * *Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity through Conscious Thinking by Jody Moore * Cory Muscara: Website | Instagram | Podcast * Cory’s Mindfulness App and Platform – Text the word ‘Jody’ to 16313052874 to sign up for Cory’s text message service! * Stop Missing Your Life: How to Be Deeply Present in an Un-Present World by Cory Muscara * Learned Hopefulness: The Power to Overcome Depression by Dan Tomasulo * Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation by Shunryū Suzuki * The Dr. Oz Show

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 342: Mindfulness with Cory Muscara.

Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast. I just have to begin with a moment of gratitude because I am feeling so much gratitude. I’m feeling a new energy and I’m starting to have a bunch of creative ideas again. I feel like the fast few weeks, I kind of shared this before on one of the episodes. But I’ve been in this weird funk and I feel myself coming out of it. And I don’t know if I’m totally coming out of it. I think it’s going to take me years to really come out of it. But today I just feel more alive, more energized.

Today was the last day of the five day Train Your Brain workshop that we did that so many of you came to. And I just want to pause and have a moment of gratitude for everybody for coming, for people that brought the most amazing questions. And for those of you who were listening in either on replay format or what have you, who didn’t even get to ask a question directly, still brought an energy of curiosity and openness. And I think that’s contagious.

And the people that came on especially and were vulnerable and shared what they were struggling with, and told the truth, and were open to some tough feedback. When I’m coaching I can give some tough feedback. My job’s to tell you the truth. That’s how I view it when I’m coaching. And so, it can be hard to hear and everybody, honestly, everybody that came on was so amazing, and open, and yet honest. It doesn’t work also if the client just goes along with everything I say. We have to kind of wrestle with it together. It’s sort of like a dance that the client and I do.

And I am just feeling so invigorated and excited about the possibilities in everybody’s life, excited about where our world is heading, excited about all the people willing to take a look at themselves and anyway, it’s giving me all kinds of ideas. So that’s kind of fun.

But today I also am excited to share with you an amazing awesome guest, Cory Muscara is someone who I found on social media sort of accidentally. I think somebody else might have shared one of his little video reels or a quote or something. And I thought it was genius and beautifully written. And so, I went and checked out his page and started following him. And he has been giving me nuggets of inspiration without knowing it for, I don’t know, maybe six months or so now that I’ve been following him. And I finally reached out. He’s a pretty big deal. He’s got a big following.

I’ll read you his bio in a minute but I finally reached out, was like, “Hey, would you be willing to come on my podcast? Here’s what it is.” And he replied instantly and said that he’d love to. So, I was so thrilled to get to talk to him and meet him. I was a little bit starstruck to be honest. And we had such a fun conversation. We talk about some of the, again, the quotes and things that I’ve heard him say or share that have really caused me to pause and think that have been really inspiring to me. And that have offered me a lot of peace. And we’re going to dive into those today on this episode.

Let me just share his bio with you before we dive in because it’s pretty impressive. This is what it says, Cory is a former monk. Let’s just pause right there for a minute, former monk, okay, mindfulness advisor for the Dr. Oz show, and bestselling author of Stop Missing Your Life. He’s taught mindful leadership at Columbia University, and is an instructor of Positive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, and for the last 10 years has offered mindfulness workshops and retreats around the world.

Named by Dr. Oz as one of the nation’s leading experts on mindfulness, his meditations have been heard more than 10 million times in over 100 countries. Cory is the host of the top ranked podcast, Practicing Human, host of the mindfulness app and platform, mindfulness.com. And author of the bestselling book, Stop Missing Your Life: How to Be Deeply Present in an Unpresent World. So, I want to also give some gratitude for Cory Muscara for taking the time to talk with me and share his wisdom with all of you. Without further ado let’s do it.

Jody: Hi, Cory, how are you?

Cory: I’m great. It’s really nice to be here.

Jody: Good. It’s so nice to meet you. I feel really flattered that you would come on my show here. I have been following you for a while.

Cory: Thank you.

Jody: So, thanks for coming. Where do you live?

Cory: In Palo Alto at California. At the moment though I’m with family on the East Coast so I’m in New York right now.

Jody: Okay. You’re from the East Coast, right?

Cory: Yes, yeah, right up on Long Island. This is my childhood veteran, believe it or not.

Jody: That’s fun. So, you’re getting a little snow.

Cory: Where are you based?

Jody: Spokane, Washington.

Cory: Yeah. I have a friend there, Ben Greenfield. Do you know him by chance?

Jody: I don’t, no.

Cory: He’s big in the bio hacking space. He’s got another really big podcast as well that [crosstalk].

Jody: I’ll have to look him up. Yes.

Cory: And my partner grew up in Yakima, so we drive past Spokane, she and her family have a place in Flathead, Montana.

Jody: So pretty, it’s pretty out here.

Cory: It’s gorgeous, it’s so nice.

Jody: We just got so much snow. My kids are home on a snow day which takes a lot of snow for that to happen here.

Cory: I would imagine, yeah.

Jody: So, I’m thinking Palo Alto sounds a lot nicer right now. Alright, well, tell everybody a little bit about who you are if you wouldn’t mind introducing yourself.

Cory: Yeah. The broad way to describe me is as a mindfulness and meditation teacher. My journey into this work is a bit different than I think most who come to this work. I wasn’t looking into it for any noble reasons. I wasn’t even looking into it to reduce stress. I was trying to impress my girlfriend in college. She was into meditation, I wanted her to think I was cooler than I was. And made this new year’s resolution to start a meditation practice. And I made sure she knew about it. And then a few weeks later she broke up with me. So, it was a superficial undertaking.

But the emotional pain of that breakup actually caused me to take the practice more seriously. And it was the first time that I was finding that there was a way to be in relationship to my internal experience such that I wasn’t consumed by it to the point of feeling like my happiness was hijacked. And so, it was just little things like I could watch my mind thinking about how much I messed up and what’s wrong with me. Or in that case it was like, I have to try to get her back.

And there was so much freedom in watching those thoughts move through my mind like clouds passing through the sky, just as a little bit of emotional or awareness, I was creating some separation that it sparked a thought of like how come I never learned anything like this before? And if I’m finding some relief just with these basic practices what would it look like to go deeper? And that’s what I did. I took my type A personality into this exploration, I really had no interest in, it wasn’t an interest in meditation or mindfulness, even spirituality at the time.

It was more just how I can a live a fulfilling life. And I just kept asking that question and it took me over to Southeast Asia where I lived as a monk for a period of time in silence, practicing meditation about, at the end of it was about 18 hours a day. But in the beginning we had to do a minimum of 14 hours a day. So, I went through a very intense period of trying to understand the mind. And then I came back and I realized it was one thing to cultivate inner peace, and tranquility in a monastic setting where there were no distractions.

It’s another thing to do it in the world where you’re contending with money, and family dynamics, and all these triggers. And so, my journey really up until this point just continues to be this insatiable, and maybe someday it’ll be satiated in Cory into just what does it mean to live fully in this human form? Such that there can be some peace with the highs and the lows, the ebbs and the flows. But also, not feeling like there has to come some future moment where I’ll finally be able to rest or start living my life. What does it mean for that to happen now where I can relax into a sense of wholeness and really hold the fullness of my life as it’s happening?

Because if there’s one thing I’ve been disillusioned by at the different stages of my journey it’s this idea that some future moment is going to create the lasting refuge at least in this human lifetime. And so, it’s just continuing to relax into this moment, it’s how can I be here more fully and with more space?

Jody: Oh my gosh. So, I want to go back to the part where you lived as a monk for a little while. What is it that – can anybody just decide they want to live as a monk? Or tell me about how that works.

Cory: I mean so when it comes to the monasteries in Burma, many of them you can show up. And if you show up with sincerity and say, “Hey, I want to practice.” They’ll let you in. Others like the one I went to required more of an application process, they really wanted to know some of your background, what your intentions were for being there, how long you were going to be there.

But yeah, if you have an interest in doing deep retreat, intensive meditation retreat, there are plenty of places that you can do that both in the States and outside of the States in a lot of Southeast Asian countries. They’re all donation based as well. So, the practice is so integrated into the culture, the fabric of the culture that these monastic settings are supported by the locals. There’s volunteer work. And so, they really see your practice there as a service to the world and they want to support that.

And so, this thing that almost seems selfish navel gazing, so what are you doing? Well, I’m just sitting here all day long focusing on my breath. How is that serving the world? You’re really looking through how many patterns of greed that we might have, internal greed, patterns of hatred that we might have. All the ways that we project our own stuff onto others that when we start to turn inward and meet that and hold our internal experience with more compassion, the organic extension of that is being able to see the humanity in others.

And so there really is a shift that a person going into these experiences comes out with in terms of how it impacts the external world.

Jody: How long were you there?

Cory: I was there six and a half months, a silent retreat.

Jody: Oh, my goodness, I can’t even imagine. A part of me feels afraid to be alone with my own thoughts for even a week. I can’t imagine it. Do people have sort of a breakdown?

Cory: In the best way, it would be irresponsible not to say that retreats like that it’s not for everyone at every point in time. If we’ve navigated perhaps a lot of trauma and the way we’ve gotten through this life is certain defense mechanisms that have caused us to not feel certain things. I don’t think that needs to be pathologized. We can actually bow down to those inner mechanisms of mind that have said this is too much to feel and we’ve bottled it up for a period of time. I know that gets a bad rap.

But all I see is a younger child that’s trying to protect themselves. So, I see a lot of heart in those strategies. And at the same time if you go into a monastic setting like that, even just a regular meditation practice, there is an invitation to soften some of those defenses because presence is quite a vulnerable experience and process. You’re opening yourself up to what is here right now. And so, something like meditating 14 hours a day could be too much, too soon, too fast and could actually be overwhelming for a person without the right support.

But everyone who goes into an experience like that regardless of the background you’re going to have some form of this is really intense. I don’t know if I should be here. This is a lot to look at. I don’t like looking at my thoughts. I don’t like looking at my emotions. There’s a lot of physical pain. And that is par for the course in the sense that most of the reasons we are not living a full life is because we have this internal refusal to be with discomfort. Think of anything, why don’t we live more fully expressed lives?

I talk about this in my book, Stop Missing Your Life. So, we’ve sort of packaged ourselves in a pain box. The pain box being these invisible walls of pain that separate us from the things we often most want. An example of that could be I want a relationship with intimacy, and love, and connection. And I had an experience when I was a child where I opened my heart and my family didn’t receive it. And I associated being open in that way with pain. And so now I associate any sort of openness and vulnerability with someone else, with deep pain with a potential for heartache.

And so that becomes a pain wall that separates us from living a deeper more full life. And so, one of the things in meditation practice is you get to learn how to be with your internal defense mechanisms, the things that have guarded you against the world, soften those defenses. And actually, see I can be with some pain and discomfort and it doesn’t kill me in the way that my mind might be telling me.

And that becomes a massive source of resilience in the world. It creates an internal safety that you can take with you that essentially says, “Okay, this is uncomfortable, it’s a risk but I know how to be with these thoughts. I know how to be with difficult emotions. And I know how to be with difficult sensations.” And the more we know how to do that the less we avoid uncomfortable things in the world and the more we can move into a life that we actually feel drawn to and not just simply moving away from pain to find safety.

Jody: I love that. So, you have an amazing text message service that I would highly recommend and will make sure to tell everyone at the end how to subscribe to it. But I’ve been getting your text messages, you send one every day. That’s no joke, first of all, well done. But they’re just short inspirational thoughts or messages, really uplifting, sometimes it’s a quote from someone else even that you’re sharing but a kind of a constant reminder of this work that you’re teaching. And so, I have a few here I pulled that I thought would be interesting to just dive into.

They’re all so good, seriously, every day I find myself sending them to somebody. And actually, I wanted to begin, your Instagram is also amazing. You have both videos and quotes. And just yesterday on Instagram you posted, “I have an incredible investment opportunity. Investing in this will give you the biggest returns you’ve ever seen, it will give you riches like nothing else. You.” So beautiful. I mean that is the only safe investment too in the end. So, could you unpack that a little bit for us?

Cory: That post was inspired by just seeing a lot of things around the new year and people looking at, where should I put some money, especially around the crypto hype, and metaverse and Web 3 and all of which I find exciting as well. And I think the tendency is to look outward with things like that, investing maybe time and energy in something like a vacation which could be an internally investment. But even things like money, and stocks, or traditional kinds of investments.

And it was just a recognition of when I looked back on my own life the greatest investments I have ever made for myself have always been in things that are expanding something internally within me. And this could just be basic knowledge such as going to grad school. But even the investment of time I took to meditate for six months or when I’ve gone on weeklong retreats. And how that enhances my capacity to show up for people I love, to be more grounded in my work, to actually appreciate my life as it’s happening.

Even things like, I talk about I don’t really spend more than $50 on a pair of jeans but I have this $300 Oura Ring that I’ll splurge on. And this tracks my sleep and if it can enhance my sleep a little bit more then I know I’m going to start the day better and I’ll be able to be more productive, I’ll be less edgy. So that post was really an invitation for us to look at where are we putting our time, our energy and our financial resources?

And are you able to see how time, energy and financial resources put towards you often has a return on investment that lasts a lifetime and is often very difficult to even track what that return is because the snowball effect is so significant. Even any investment in learning some sort of skill that you’re going to use the rest of your life will then bring you into new circles with new people that have more skills, and that enhances those skills. And it just continues to compound.

So especially going into the new year right now, really pay attention to the ways that you’re investing in yourself.

Jody: What things, I mean you mentioned allowing yourself to splurge on like an Oura Ring, or something. But what other things do you see that are effective ways for people to invest in themselves? I work with a lot of women who are mothers who feel they don’t have the time or that it’s selfish. And I’m just curious what that means to you, investing in yourself.

Cory: Yeah. Well, let’s actually take it outside the realm of money, I think, which is a helpful way to look at this. And especially in the context of parents where taking time for oneself can feel selfish. I like the Parker Palmer quote for this one where he says, “Selfcare is never a selfish act, it’s simply good stewardship of the only gift we have, the gift we were put on Earth to offer others. Any time we take care of ourselves we do it not just for ourselves but for the many others whose lives we aim to serve.”

And I think this is a trap that we can get caught in which is I have so many people I need to take care of and I have so many people I love. And my greatest expression of love will be just putting all of my energy outward. Well, if you take the stance that everyone is worthy of love the first thing to just check to make sure that you’re including yourself in that love. Because if you’re not, you are not going to be able to continue to check in with your own needs, your own boundaries, your own energy limits. And fill yourself up so that your cup can pour over for all of those who you care about.

And so, if we just take it in the context of the parenting example, you don’t even have to look at it as from any spiritual perspective like I’m talking about. And more just like if I really want to show up for my kid well with energy and not be edgy, have presence for them, have my mind be grounded and not scattered, I need to be checking in with myself.

I mean it’s just a scientific fact, we know enough about psychology, and emotions, and microtraumas to see that if we’re not practicing healthy boundaries, if we’re not taking time to be still, to take care of our bodies, we’re not going to be as focused. We’re not going to be as present. And we’re not going to have the emotional bandwidth for something as big as trying to parent.

So, the first investment I would make again outside of money is just can you give yourself, let’s just start with five minutes at the beginning of the day where you just check-in with yourself. And you might have a prayer. It might be a conversation with God, or some higher power, or the universe where you just go, “Hey, it’s another day.” If it were me I might say something like, “Hey, Cory, how you doing? We’re waking up again today, there’s a lot going on. What do you need? Is there any way that we can better take care of ourselves right now and as we go about the day?”

And it’s essentially just this conversation with yourself that’s saying, I haven’t forgot about you. And I know how hard you’re working. And I’m listening if you need anything, I’m not going to abandon you. If you can make that investment in yourself, five minutes a day, it’s something that will impact all the other moments of your day. And I think just giving yourself that permission is the first step.

Jody: Yeah, I love that. I think it’s allowing ourselves some of our own attention. I have four children of my own and I wouldn’t want to intentionally neglect any one of them or make them think that they’re not worthy of my attention. And that’s what I hear you describing. I know a few years ago I adopted a practice of doing that when I brush my teeth because it’s already a habit ingrained in me every morning and every night. And that’s my two minutes even. But because I’m in front of the mirror I make eye contact with myself and it’s like a seeing of myself that I otherwise don’t really ever do.

And it’s just a moment like you said of either, here we go, Jody, today’s going to be a busy day but I’ve got you. And at the end of the day, it’s either thanks for what you did today, or I noticed that you sort of had a rough day. And a sort of a checking in with myself, like I would with another person. And that really has been transformative for me in terms of my confidence, not feeling so needy and desperate that I need this from everyone else. Because I just in those couple of minutes provide it to myself.

Cory: Yeah, beautiful. And I think from a parenting perspective as well this is a great thing to model for our children because we don’t want to model just giving everything we have and not giving anything back to ourselves. And you can invite your children into that inner exploration and saying like, “Mommy needs to take a little bit of time for herself so that she can be present with you and she can listen to you. Would you like to take this time with me? We’re just going to spend about five minutes being still together.”

And so, there’s a way that that can actually become a fantastic teaching moment.

Jody: I love that, what a great idea. I wanted to again share some of your text messages here that I love. You text me, I have your name in my contacts. I’m like, “Oh, it’s Cory texting me again.” Okay, so this is a great one.

It says, “Every moment is an opportunity for a fresh start. Yes, one could argue that everything that has preceded this moment has created who you are and how you think. And you still have the capacity to notice the momentum of your life pushing you in a certain direction. Be patient and still and choose a more purposeful response. What if you viewed this moment as the beginning of the rest of your life?” So good, it’s so good. I love the idea that we always can choose to move forward from where we are.

I feel like and I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on this, I feel like our brains or our egos, or whatever it is, views the past as much more relevant than it actually is. I mean we are an intelligent species that can learn from the past, and can make adjustments accordingly, and of course that’s a healthy part of us, but I just don’t think the past is as important or relevant as we think it is. And I think the challenge is to think more about the future which is for me much more difficult to do because it’s like someone handing me a blank piece of paper going, “Draw anything you want.” It’s a challenge.

But I love what you say, what if you viewed this moment as the beginning of the rest of your life?

Cory: Thanks for bringing that one in. I like that quote as well.

Jody: That was good.

Cory: It’s like I need that reminder. This one I really wanted to capture the honoring of the reality that our past impacts how we experience ourselves in the present moment. On some level you could say it’s everything that is informing this moment. On another level you can make the argument that we are completely decoupled from all of that and that is not who we are in this moment. Because who we are is yet to be written. There’s a certain momentum that the past creates.

We’re all going to get caught up in patterns, you might be sitting around the dinner table with your family. And just like there’s that pattern again. Okay, well, that’s something that has been conditioned over time and it’s showing up in the present moment. And at the same time, you can take a breath, you can ground yourself and you can notice that feeling in your chest that there’s some tightness and it’s causing me to want to say something out of anger. Breathe, ground and then say, “I like the question, what would the best version of myself do in this moment?”

There’s something about that question that sort of hijacks the past self-conditioning and allows me to associate into a future self that has different values and capacities. And it pulls me into a different response. Yeah, future Cory will be able to take a breath and go, “You know what? It’s okay right now.” And actually, maybe I’m just going to bite my tongue and not say anything. And other times it might be a more compassionate response. But the future is really important, this is coming from a mindfulness teacher.

Many people think that meditation and mindfulness is just all about being in the present, you don’t think about the future, you don’t think about the past. I mean thoughts about the future and thoughts about the past are happening in the present moment. So, this is more about being able to attune to the fullness of your life as it’s happening right here. A lot of my work is also in the positive psychology space. And Martin Seligman who’s the founder of positive psychology is very big on prospection, future thinking.

And part of the reason for that is he’s the founder of learned helplessness where they found that when animals and humans are repeatedly exposed to a difficult situation that they don’t feel like they can control, they fall into this helpless response which often leads to depression. What they have now found in recent years, the two founders of that, Steve Maier and Martin Seligman is that helplessness is not actually learned, it is our default response to a difficult situation.

What makes us unique though is we have this circuit in the brain that activates a part of the brain called the dorsal raphe nucleus. And that creates a feeling of agency, of hope, of optimism, of influence over our experience. How do we begin to activate that? He calls that the hope circuit. And this involves feeling like we have some influence over our present moment experience, we can change our experience and we can impact our future.

That feeling of agency toward a different future, imaging what could happen is the thing that overrides that helpless response and pulls us into a life that we’re actually excited to live into. But from a basic psychological level it’s the biggest buffer against depression. And for that reason, he’s said he thinks depression will be cured in 20 years just because we’re identifying areas of the brain that begin to override that. So, we’ll see how that actually unfolds.

Jody: Wow. Yeah, I mean I like that statistic.

Cory: But it’s really interesting research.

Jody: That’s fascinating.

Cory: Yeah. And it’s a plug for future thinking. And I also want to say that I do think there are periods in our life where we actually need to make space for that which has happened previously that didn’t actually get to be processed.

Jody: Yes, I agree, I agree. There is a space for that. So does the research show or in your opinion is it more challenging for some people to access that hope circuit. I mean it seems that we come with different wiring of course and then we have different experiences in our lives. But for somebody that it’s really challenging to step out of that helpless state and into the hope state, what are the strategies recommended?

Cory: Yeah. So, my friend and colleague, Dr. Dan Tomasulo wrote a fantastic book on this called Learned Hopefulness. It’s my go to book for anyone who’s maybe struggling with depression, or especially feeling that hopeless response. And one of the strategies I like of his is he has you go back through past experiences that were difficult. And really associate into that feeling that you’ve felt there, like maybe, I’m not going to be able to get through this or a feeling of hopelessness.

And then tracking what happened through that experience, what shifted? How did you get through the other side? What were the mindset shifts? And how did that feel when that did actually shift? Because so much of what we feel when we’re in a state of hopelessness is it just feels like it’s always been like this and it’s always going to be like this. So, we need to remind the brain of previous successes that we’ve had, the transient nature of experience. And even what that just begins to activate is a sense of this moment will pass, this moment can get better.

And it’s sometimes just that opening that we need in order to feel like, okay, you know what? Maybe it is worth getting out of bed in this moment. I’m going to go to the gym or I’m going to go for a walk. So, if we don’t have hope at all, none of that even seems to make sense. So going back through difficult experiences that we’ve overcome is one of the key strategies there that can be really useful.

Jody: That kind of leads me into one of your final quotes that I wanted to share here. I just want to set it up by talking about this idea that we are dynamic creatures. And I think sometimes we forget that, like you said, when things are rough it feels like it’s going to be that way forever. Also, for me it’s easy to take for granted when everything’s going smoothly I feel like that’s just going to last forever and of course it doesn’t.

And also, I love the idea, you talk a lot about not being afraid and not resisting negative emotions but learning to be with them and notice that we can tolerate them. We can even just be with them. My mom, I remember when I was growing up when I was struggling she always used to say, “Nothing ever stays the same.” And that was enough for me to remember this is temporary and therefore I can do it. So, the quote that you posted yesterday it sort of speaks to that, it of course speaks to a lot.

But you said, “A musician tunes their instrument every day. It changes from the day before, sometimes in the most subtle ways. Our mind and body are like instruments too. And each day we must tune to ourselves. What is it like to be me today? Many of us are trying to play an instrument that was tuned for a previous moment, often a decade ago. Meet yourself with a beginner’s mind, you’re always changing.” Would you speak to beginner’s mind because I’ve heard that term before but I want to understand it a little better.

Cory: Yeah. This is a term from Zen, a teacher, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi who wrote Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind. He said in the mind of the expert there are very few possibilities. In the mind of the beginner there are an infinite number of possibilities. And we’re all familiar with beginner’s minds because we’ve all experienced it especially at the beginning of our life. But any new thing that we’re endeavoring into there’s curiosity and openness, and humility. And we develop some expertise as we go that sort of narrows what is okay and what is not okay, what’s possible or not possible.

Of course, there’s certain domains like maybe a surgeon that we really want them to develop that expertise and not go, “How can I do my job differently today?” But even then that’s medicine and science where you’re just continuing to ask, “What new ways is to do this?” And creativity and innovation happen at the interface between what is known and what is not known. And so, when it comes to our internal experience we all walk around with an internalized sense of who we are.

Our ego structure is essentially just an idea of ourselves. And that has been developed in many different ways over the course of our lifetime. But it’s often outdated and we’re running patterns, we’re responding in certain ways or even I think everyone’s said at some point, “That’s just not who I am.” And it’s worth checking, is that true? Who is it that I am? Where does this idea come from of what I do or what I can’t do, what I’m capable of, what I’m not capable of?

And this quote was really an invitation to attune yourself to the dynamic changing nature of your being. And ask yourself with total sincerity, who am I today? And what is it like to be me right now? And to show up to yourself with that sort of curiosity. Make space for the next evolution of you to move through you otherwise we can very unconsciously just get caught up in the same patterns of thought, emotion and behavior without ever really questioning it or making space for something new to emerge.

Jody: Yeah. I don’t know why we developed this idea, it seems pretty early on in life even, our mid 20s or early 30s that we should be good at things now or else we’re just not that. I had an experience recently where my daughter takes piano lessons. And I said to her piano teacher one day, “Do you have any availability because I’d like to start taking piano lessons?” And she was a little taken back and just said, “Well, I could but I normally only teach children.” I said, “Okay, well, if that’s not something you’re comfortable with.”

She said, “No, I could but – and every time there was a recital or whatever, just so you know, you’re going to be the only adult.” Because at my age, 47, people decide either I play the piano or I don’t. It’s pretty unusual that we’re like, “Maybe I’ll go learn to play the piano”, or any number of other things. And I think it’s based on what you’re saying of we are ever evolving dynamic creatures. And I still have I think a lot of years ahead of me that I might want to learn some new skills.

But even sort of on a deeper level like what you’re talking about with our personalities, our common emotions that we’re living from, our temperaments, all of those things are subject to change. According to the world of positive psychology and neuroplasticity we are capable of change if we choose to. And that when we embrace that I think it can be both frightening and sort of exciting at the same time.

Cory: Yeah, I think it could be very exciting. And even just the openness to ask, who am I right now? Or even, what patterns am I running right now? We often need to move closer to a pattern in order to release it. If something is just running in the background and we’re not actually turning toward it and going, “Why am I doing this? I’m doing this because even though it’s destroying my life in some way, I still feel stable, and secure, and predictable in this pattern of pushing everyone away. It makes me feel safe.”

Great. Well, now let’s have a conversation of where that need for safety is coming from. Is it still true? Or is this something we did when we were 15 years old and are still running at 45? Do we have different resources now to meet uncomfortable things that could arise that we didn’t have when we were 15, that caused us to put up this wall? So just the openness and the asking of, “What is going on here right now? And does this need to be true?” And it could be who am I right now and who do I want to be? Who am I inspired to grow into? And that’s where that future prospection can be really useful.

Jody: So good, I could soak up your wisdom all day but I will let you go. Let’s make sure everybody knows how to find you and how to take advantage of all the amazing resources that you have. Where do you want to begin?

Cory: The first place is mindfulness.com which is where all of my meditations can be found. We do different courses, challenges. And we have a lot of stuff for kids and parents as well. So, I know there are a lot of parents listening, and a lot of free content and it’s an app and platform. And then for the text messages that Jody has been referencing, that is an ongoing daily free service. So, you can get that by texting, text the word ‘Jody’ to the number 16313052874. And that’ll automatically upload you into that text message service.

And then Instagram is another place that I post a lot of my teachings @corymuscara.

Jody: Okay, awesome. Thank you so much. It was so nice to meet you, Cory, I appreciate your time.

Cory: Thank you so much, Jody, a real pleasure.

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The post 342. Mindfulness with Cory Muscara appeared first on Jody Moore.

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Why your feelings matter is something I’ve talked about before on the podcast, but I’m looking at it from a new angle today. I’m always trying to sell you all, and myself, on the idea that feelings matter way more than we tend to realize. And the more we understand that, the more powerful we become in the experience of our lives.

We all have commitments that we need to honor, but sometimes you’re going to have strong feelings and emotions about the things you’re facing in your life. We often believe that if we prioritize our to-do list or achieve something, our feelings will take care of themselves. But the truth here may surprise you.

Tune in this week to discover the truth about your feelings. I’m showing you how to get clear on your feelings, how they’re the driving force within you, what they’re trying to tell you, and how to treat your feelings with the respect and recognition they deserve.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Why your feelings truly do matter. * How understanding what your feelings are trying to tell you will change your life forever. * Why thinking of your feelings as soft, sensitive, or ambiguous is never helpful in the long term. * What you can do to see where your current feelings are coming from. * Why your feelings are the ultimate reason and driver for your ability or inability to succeed. * How to start feeling your feelings, good or bad, and allow them to influence your life and decisions in a positive way.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 341: Why Feelings Matter.

Hey there, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am really happy to be sitting down at my computer with my gigantic microphone and headphones on talking to you. I just have been postponing all week recording this podcast. I need to get the episode to my producer, Pavel and Angela, and their team that does such an amazing job on the podcast. And the reason why is because I am in the weirdest funk right now.

And I keep thinking, I’ve got to get myself a little more motivated, and feeling better, and energized, and to be able to say something really inspiring on this podcast. And I do actually feel a little bit better today. The sun came out, that always helps. But I’m still in this weird funk and I just want to share that with you because I want to be transparent. I think that’s helpful for all kinds of reasons.

But I also want you to know that you can be in a funk and you can obviously still show up in your life but also I kind of get excited when I’m in a funk like this. I know that sounds crazy but hear me out. The funk, I don’t know what it is obviously, if I knew what it was I would probably move out of it faster. I think part of the reason for it is the unknown. And I think though that it’s either I’m sort of on the verge of a midlife crisis because I’m 47 years old now and this tends to happen to people at this age.

I do feel a little bit of that, what am I supposed to do next? What am I supposed to focus on? What am I going to be excited about? I don’t know if that’s kind of midlife crisis or not. But the reason I’m excited about it is because I think that those ebbs and flows that we go through in life of being really driven, and passionate, and excited, and then sort of bored, or lost, or confused are healthy and they’re what lead us to the next thing. And I don’t mean the next thing like I’m going to make any kind of drastic changes.

I have no plans to leave my family, or my business, or anything like that. I just mean this kind of funk that I have experienced a few other times in my life, like right after graduating high school, right after graduating college, right after having children. This is always what happens before I find something else that I’m really excited about. So, I’m just letting myself be in the funk.

I am letting myself sort of be uncertain about what I’m pursuing, about what is the next thing, about where my life is headed, or what I want to dive into, what I want to learn more about, what I want to spend my time on, who I want to become. All of that’s just kind of up for grabs right now. And that’s both depressing, and scary, and exciting to me. So anyway, that’s what’s going on with me. Just want to be real about it. I am still very excited about what I’m going to teach you today, that part hasn’t changed.

And I’m even more excited about the full workshop I’m going to be teaching in Be Bold next week by the time this episode publishes. So today I just want to introduce you to this idea that feelings matter. And this is something I’ve talked about before on the podcast. I’m going to talk about it a little bit differently today because I’m always trying to sell you all, and myself, and all my clients on the idea that feelings matter way more than we tend to give notice to. And the more you understand that the more powerful you become in your life experience.

So, I want to start out by sharing something from Will Smith’s new book that’s out called Will. It is fantastic. I consumed the whole thing, I listened to it on audible which I highly recommend because you get to hear Will Smith reading it and they’ve edited in music and things. And it’s just a pretty amazing experience listening to it on audible. I listened to the whole thing in less than a week. It was so good, highly recommend. One of my favorite parts is a little over three-quarters of the way through the book when Will Smith starts to gain a greater understanding of the power of feelings.

And he sets it up by telling the story about his daughter, Willow, who is only 10 years old. Can you believe that? When her song, I Whip My Hair Back and Forth, remember that song? Whip My Hair Back and Forth. She was only 10 years old when that song was a hit. And so, you can imagine a 10 year old would be really excited about touring, and doing concerts, and performing the song. And then all of a sudden she decided, well, I think I’ve done with that. I don’t want to do that anymore. And that’s kind of what happened with Willow.

Will Smith tried to talk her into, “Well, honey, we have to honor these commitments that we’ve made. And we need to see this through.” And what she says to her dad is, “It doesn’t matter to you that I’m done, daddy?” And he says, “No, it matters, it’s just commitments”, and etc. He gives her the speech again. And then later on again as he goes through his own sort of midlife crisis and taking a deep dive into understanding himself and to trying to improve his relationships and all of that.

He starts to understand the power of feelings. And I’m going to read to you just a little bit here from his book because I love the way he says it. He quotes Willow again, “It doesn’t matter to you that I’m done, daddy? I know it sounds crazy but Willow’s question put a Liberty bell sized crack in my world view. It was just an innocent question from a daughter to her father but somehow I knew that it was more than that. What she was really asking me was, “Don’t you care how I feel?” It was the deepest existential human question.

It may be the most important question that we as humans ever ask each other, does it matter to you how I feel? Even though she was only 10 years old and my choice to abandon the conquest had sufficiently answered her question in the affirmative”, meaning he let her stop her tour. “I asked myself, what is my honest answer? I took a deep hard self-reflective look at my belief systems around feelings. And my truth startled me. I would have never said this out loud but a truthful answer to, does it matter to you how I feel would have sounded something like this.

“Not exactly sweetheart, feelings are seventh on my list. First and foremost, I care that you eat every day. Second, I care that you have somewhere to live. Third, I care that you’re safe. Fourth, I care that you are intelligent and your mind is trying to solve the problems of your life. Fifth, I care that you’re strong because the world is hard. And sixth, I care that you’re productive. I want you to contribute to the human family. And I believe that if you have all of those things they will add up to you feeling great.

I believe that if I take care of one through six, number seven will take care of itself. This is not something I just apply to you. I don’t even care how I feel.”” And then he goes on to expand on this realization that he has been trying to achieve in his life in order to feel a certain way. He’s been trying to make other people happy in order to feel a certain way. And this realization that he has achieved so much, he’s Will Smith and yet happiness often eludes him.

And so today we’re going to talk about feelings. Maybe Will Smith will listen. He did learn a lot of lessons that we worked with, a lot of experts and has a great understanding of these concepts now. But I want you to ask yourself what you’re feeling. If you’re feeling great. Awesome. If you’re feeling a little down, what is that about? What is the feeling? Is it overwhelmed, anxious, afraid, dread, uncertainty, guilt, resentment, worried, bored, stuck? Some of those feelings I have been feeling lately myself.

I want you to know that feelings are not soft. We used to think they were. People used to avoid them, especially men tend to get uncomfortable talking about feelings. That’s a feminine thing. Not the case, feelings actually are a human thing. And they are not as ambiguous as I used to believe they were, thanks to the things that I’ve learned about the brain and the tools I use as a coach. And they are so important to understand. And they’re the driving force within each of us. Our feelings genuinely are first of all what cause us to show up as we are. They make us who we are.

My personality, my persona, the way I interact with people in the world and the way people would describe me is because of the main feelings I operate from. Our feelings are the reason for our ability to succeed or our inability to succeed, or our failure, in other words, at a goal. I promise you this is true. What drives you is your feelings. So, you can take the same action but if the feeling fueling you is not useful you will likely fail. Feelings are the reason that life seems to come easier for some people than others.

Now, of course we all have different opportunities. We are born into different circumstances. And yes, of course those things matter. But what I’m saying is, why is it that some people born into what we would all call is hardship or really challenging circumstances, end up soaring while others sink, who come from those same circumstances? Why is it that some people who are born into what we would call privilege and ease end up soaring while other people self-sabotage? It’s because of the feelings that person is living from the majority of the time.

So, your ability to allow and understand feelings makes you either more or less effective at anything you have the desire to do in your life. Your ability and your willingness to feel those feelings is critical, first of all. You have to understand how to feel feelings. When I say how to feel better I don’t mean how to feel positive all the time. I mean how to feel not so out of control, how to not be so afraid of your feelings. I’m going to talk more about that in just a minute. To be willing to feel them.

The other key piece of this is that you have to understand what they truly are, what creates them and what they mean. Also understand what they don’t mean. And if you can do those two things, if you can be willing and able to feel feelings and understand what is true about feelings and what is not true about feelings you will become a different version of yourself. You will become more powerful in your life than you could have ever imagined. You will create more goodness. You will feel more love and abundance.

You will succeed at anything you choose to succeed at if you can master those two things. Now, sometimes I have people tell me, “I am a highly sensitive person. I feel feelings really intensely and I’m tired of feeling all these feelings. It’s exhausting.” And then there are other people who would say, “I’m more of a stoic, or I’m less ‘sensitive’ in that way. I don’t feel feelings really intensely.”

What I’m going to teach you today and what we’re going to expand on in February in Be Bold and do together throughout the month applies either way. I promise you. This is relevant no matter where you fall on that sensitivity of emotion spectrum. So, I want to use an example here of what I’m describing to you because I know I’m making some pretty big promises about feelings. And I don’t mean to oversell it. I just feel so passionately that this is true and I’ve witnessed it so many times in my life and in others that I am trying to sell you on just believing me that feelings matter.

But here’s one example, so I have a coaching program right now called Business Minded where I work with entrepreneurs building businesses. We are having so much fun in that program, by the way. It’s not uncommon for people to ask me questions like this. “Hey, Jody, do you think this price I’m charging for my program, or my service, or my product, do you think it’s the right price? How do I know if the price is too high or too low?”

Or, “Do you think this is a good offer? Is this a good target market? Do you think this is a good idea for my Facebook ad or my opt-in? Do you think this will work”, they’ll ask me. Now, I ask people that same question all the time. But here’s what happens. Because they are in my program they obviously think I have a little bit of experience, a little bit of knowledge about this area.

So, if I say, “Yeah, I think that’s a great idea. I think that’s going to work great.” What they do then is they give themselves permission to believe that as well. To believe that their idea is right, or that the pricing is right, or that their target market is a good one. And that creates a feeling of confidence and determination. And then they go out and are much more likely to make it work. So, their belief, and again I do the same thing, we all have what’s called a confirmation bias. We go to great lengths to prove our beliefs true. It’s what our brains are supposed to do.

So, when I say, “Yes, that’s a great idea”, or if somebody that I’m working with, a teacher or a mentor of mine says, “I think that’s a great idea, I think that’s going to well”, then I actually keep finessing it and put the energy and effort into it with emotions like determination and confidence that make it work. It’s not that it was a good idea or that it wasn’t a good idea. It’s the belief driving me and the emotions driving me that cause me to then ‘make it work’. I really do think that’s true.

So, I want to talk for just a minute about one of the concepts I’m going to be teaching again in the February course of Be Bold. So, if you’re not in there and you want to join us, the doors will be open for just a few days here. And you can go to jodymoore.com/membership. But I know a lot of you listening are already in Be Bold. So, I’ll talk a little bit more about what I’m going to teach in the course.

But the first concept I just want to teach to everyone here on the podcast and that is the concept of 50/50, that there is opposition in all things. That what I am trying to teach you here is what I like to call emotional balance. That is the healthiest way. I’m listening to a book right now written by a positive psychologist. He keeps talking about emotional balance.

So, I write about this in my book, Better Than Happy, there’s a chapter, chapter 11, it’s called Opposition in All Things. And it takes a deep dive into this concept of emotional balance and 50/50 experience. But I do want to share for those of you who are faith based like myself, specifically a scripture from The Book of Mormon, from 2 Nephi 2:11 that says, “For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad.

Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.” So right there in the scriptures, and there are scriptures also in the Bible that refer to this. But we are taught that we are meant to have opposition in all things, including within us.

And part of the reason that I see people really struggle, and feel stuck, and end up in a cycle of negative emotion outside of, let me just make sure and preface, there are legitimate chemical hormonal issues that can lead to depression and things. But I’m talking about the 80% that we have control over, for some of you, you have more control than that, for some of you, you might have slightly less. But there is an element of it within our control which is how we choose to think about it when we’re feeling bad.

So, the 50/50 concept teaches us that if we feel bad about feeling bad then we double the bad or we create something that we don’t want in our lives. But if we can embrace that the human experience, what makes us alive, according to this scripture there could be no life without death. There could be no happiness without misery. What creates an amazing complete experience for us is to sometimes feel bad and other times to feel good.

So, I want to illustrate some of the ways that this, like I said, either doubles feeling bad, when we resist it and we’re afraid of it we don’t want to feel it. Or sometimes it just creates a result that we don’t want or it causes us to show up in a way that we don’t want to. So, for example, if I’m afraid of being disappointed then I lose the opportunity to be delighted. Why don’t you think about that for a minute. If I’m not willing to be disappointed then I will often forego the opportunity to be delighted. Do you have examples coming to your mind?

We have to take a risk on something to be delighted. And if it works out we get to be delighted, and if it doesn’t, we might choose to be disappointed. But the alternative is to never take the risk. I see this happen all the time. I just don’t want to be disappointed. Alright, but now you’re missing out on the opportunity to be delighted.

Okay, here’s another one, when we fear embarrassment we miss out on the chance to be proud of ourselves, to feel fulfilled. Some people don’t like that word, ‘proud’. I like it. I like to feel proud of myself. But if you’re worried about being embarrassed you will forego an opportunity to feel proud of yourself. Interesting.

I’m thinking of playing the piano in church. For some reason the thought of that makes me so afraid. I would for sure just mess it up, and get lost, and probably have to quit in the middle of the song, and that’s what I picture. And I don’t want to be embarrassed. I would be embarrassed because of what I would think if that happened. And so, I will not play the piano in church which causes me to miss out on the opportunity to be proud of myself, to be fulfilled, to do something hard and then experience that feeling afterwards that we did it.

If we fear rejection we will miss out on connection. This is an interesting one. To truly connect, to have true intimacy in a relationship we have to be willing to be vulnerable. We have to allow our true selves to be known. The reason we fear vulnerability is because we fear rejection. If we never let our true selves be known, if we keep a guard or a wall up, no one can truly reject us because they don’t even genuinely know us. But if we let that wall down we risk rejection but it’s also required for connection, for true connection. Fascinating.

If we fear failure we miss out on success. We kind of talked about that one a little bit with embarrassment and feeling proud. When we are worried about overwhelm we create anxiety. I see this one happen all the time. Overwhelm is an emotion, we create it with our thoughts. Well, you can just be overwhelmed and just allow it, it’s fine. If you’re mad about it, if you’re worried about your overwhelm, if you’re resisting your overwhelm it may often escalate into anxiety.

Here’s a similar one. When we are afraid of worrying we create panic. Or sometimes people tell me, “I’m just tired of being worried all the time.” And then they resist the worry, they intensify the worry, it turns to again, panic, maybe anxiety. Anxiety tends to be an escalated emotion, meaning we’re resisting the primary emotion. We’re not just allowing it, we’re mad about being worried, we’re tired of being worried, we’re worried about being worried, we then become anxious. See how we are compounding it with this?

When we are unwilling to be disappointed we create anger. This one I was kind of thinking about when I wrote these notes for myself here. That often when people are angry, anger is another emotion that psychologists tend to recognize as an escalated secondary emotion which means there’s a primary emotion underneath it. And I think many times it’s disappointment underneath the anger. Think about when one of your kids doesn’t listen to you, you have to ask them five times. You’re really just disappointed that they’re not listening but it escalates into anger.

Here’s another one that’s similar. When we’re afraid of hurting we become mean. Think about the last time you encountered somebody who was mean, or maybe it was just a character in a movie, or maybe it’s somebody from your past that you would describe as mean. Ask yourself if there isn’t hurt and pain below that meanness. And that person may not know what to do with that hurt and pain. They don’t know how to just allow it. They don’t have the knowledge or the, at least, conscious awareness that they’re creating the hurt and so they resist it and then become mean.

When we are unwilling to feel insecure we become bratty. I notice this, I mean it’s pretty obvious in younger kids but adults do it too. It’s kind of something I notice more in women than men although it can go either way. Men probably become mean more often, women become bratty. So, think about the last time that you were sort of bratty, or somebody you know was acting kind of bratty, maybe gossiping, maybe talking bad about someone else, maybe even putting someone down. It’s coming from insecurity.

Think about whatever reality show of choice where there’s some cattiness going on. It’s always coming from insecurity. But if you’re just willing to feel insecure, you just be insecure for a little while then you don’t have to project it onto anyone else. You don’t have to act out on it. You just be insecure, you can still be kind and be insecure. When we are unwilling to be uncomfortable we lose authenticity.

I was thinking about this one because it’s not uncommon for me to coach people who say, “I know I’m people pleasing. I know I’m pretending.” We just did an episode a little while ago on pretending here on the podcast. “I know it’s not serving me but I am just uncomfortable saying what’s true. I’m afraid they’re going to be upset. I’m afraid they’re not going to like it. I’m afraid they’re going to be mad at me. It’s just really uncomfortable for me to say what’s true.”

So, when we’re unwilling to be uncomfortable we lose authenticity. Authenticity matters for so many reasons. It’s a connection with yourself. It’s a violation of yourself to not allow yourself to be authentic. It’s like saying, “Hey, could you please hide and pretend to be someone other than you are so that we can keep everyone else happy? Thank you.” So, it can create a lot of problems. It also of course disconnects us in relationships and things.

Okay, so those were just some examples I thought of, of how not allowing or getting good at negative emotion creates problems for us. It either compounds it into an even more painful emotion, causes us to show up in a way we don’t want, or create a result we don’t want in our lives. So, what’s the alternative? We should just feel all of this? Well, yes, but also remember, with awareness and confidence around it.

So, in other words, it’s perfectly safe to feel any emotion when you know that they aren’t ‘true information’ about yourself or the world around you. If they are true indicators of what’s true about you or the world then they’re scary. Here’s the thing, if they really mean there’s danger then you should be afraid but in most cases there is no danger. If there is immediate danger then we actually want the surge of adrenalin to kick in. If there’s a fire in my house, I want to be afraid, I want to panic, I want to get everybody out.

If I’m being chased by a bear in the woods, same thing, that is rarely the case. Most of the negative emotions that you’re experiencing today are simply the human experience. It’s your human brain creating emotions with sentences in your mind. It feels protective and preventative to your brain to create these emotions. And maybe sometimes it is but it’s only that, it’s only preparatory. It’s not truly dangerous right now. In the now we occasionally have a problem to solve.

So, let’s say I’m at home and my husband is in the next room and he suddenly falls unconscious on the floor. Okay, now I have a problem to solve. So, I need to figure out, what am I going to do. Am I going to call an ambulance? What do you do when someone falls unconscious? You go check on them, see if they’re okay, maybe call 911, maybe call somebody. But you get to work problem solving in the moment when there’s a problem that presents itself right then.

So, I want you to think about this. What is worse, being in that moment when something has happened and you’ve got to figure out what to do, or worrying that something might happen to your husband? And playing the movies over and over again in your head of what they could be and not really knowing what they will be or if. That latter is much more painful than the actual challenge presenting itself and then our brains going to work problem solving.

So, here’s the truth. With this contrast of emotions our life is much more beautiful. It is necessary. And the truth is I don’t know how to teach you to never feel negative emotions again. I don’t think that’s the point. Even if it were I don’t know how to do that. So, we might as well find a way to relax around it. My six year old daughter has decided that she doesn’t like going to school right now.

She doesn’t like getting up for school. It’s pretty cold and dark here and she doesn’t like having to go outside in the cold. She doesn’t like being away from me all day. She just decided she doesn’t like school. She’s been really fighting us on going, and complaining, and all of the things, crying about it. And we’ve just been trying to help her through that. And the other day she said to me, “Mom, I decided I’m going to try to like school now.” And I said, “Well done, Taylor, because you do have to go to school so you might as well try to like it.”

And that’s what I’m offering to you here about negative emotion. You’re going to feel it sometimes. You might as well stop resisting it and learn how to get better at it, and how to relax around it. And of course, this leads us to the next question of how do I do that? Which is what I’m going to teach you in Be Bold. So, you’ve got to get in there and join us. If you’re not in there you can just join for this month. If you just want to learn this class, come in for one month and leave, you could do that. You’re probably going to want to stay.

We have people that have been in there for years. But I’ll tell you, I’m going to teach you how. I’m going to start by teaching you a concept that I call normal feels normal. I’m going to teach you about the mental diet, and it has nothing to do with food or weight loss by the way. It has to do with your brain, your emotions, your thoughts. And I’m going to spend a lot of time giving you a deep dive on topics that I have taken a close look at, I’m calling this section, this I know is true.

And it’s not to tell you what you should think, it’s to open your brain up and to knowing that you have the ability to think whatever you want. And then we’re going to practice together generating emotions so that you can generate more of the ones you want. I’m going to teach you how to do that. And we’re going to practice managing the negative ones. I don’t want you to just feel negative emotion all the time and feel out of control about when it comes and what it does to you.

I want you to know that you have the ability to manage those negative emotions and we’re going to all practice it together in Be Bold. So, I will see you there. Thank you so much for joining me today you guys, I feel better already. I’m excited about whatever’s coming in the future for me and for you. I’ll see you next time. Bye bye.

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The post 341. Why Feelings Matter appeared first on Jody Moore.

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People come to me and they want to know how they can trust other people. Whether it’s a teenage child who’s been lying to you, a boss who you feel has wronged you, or a spouse who was unfaithful, trusting other people can feel extremely difficult and bring up a lot of mental drama.

But before we can learn how to trust, we have to start with asking, what even is trust? I believe it’s a set of beliefs and sentences we have about a person that creates a reassuring feeling in our bodies. So, how can we begin to trust someone who we’re not sure is worthy of our trust? That’s what we’re discussing in today’s episode.

If you have someone in your life who you’re struggling to trust, you need to tune in this week because I’m showing why it might not even be necessary to start trusting others. I’m sharing why, despite what you might think, trusting someone doesn’t have anything to do with the other person, and how you can live a life you love, whether or not you decide to trust other people unconditionally.

I am teaching a five-day workshop called Train Your Brain, and you’re invited to join me. We’re doing a 90-minute Zoom call every day where I’m teaching you how to get your head in the right place to be able to achieve your goals and solve your problems. I’ll even be doing live coaching. All you have to do is raise your hand! And the best part is it’s only $19. And if you can’t make the call live or you want to watch them again, they will all be recorded for you to watch any time. Click here to join us.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * The sentences and beliefs that result in us trusting someone. * Why I don’t believe any human is 100% trustworthy in how they represent themselves, and that’s okay. * What we want to feel and experience when we put our trust in other people. * How to see why trusting someone may not actually be helpful or necessary, no matter how ideal it seems. * Why us trusting someone else has absolutely nothing to do with the other person. * How to exercise your authority over your experience and choose trust in any situation you want to.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 340: Trust.

Hey, everyone, so glad that you’re here today. Welcome to the podcast. I just want to make sure and mention before we get rolling that next Monday, so depending on when you’re listening to this episode but a couple of days from when this episode comes out, we will be diving into Train Your Brain. And if you haven’t registered yet, get in there because you’re not going to want to miss it. It is an intense five day deep dive into your head.

And I think what you’re going to find is that each day, if you come and listen or at least listen at some point, you can listen later on replay format if you can’t be there live. We go from 9:00 to 10:30 Pacific Time each day Monday through Friday. But if you expose your brain to that for five days in a row you’re going to feel the lift that happens within you. I promise you, you will. And I want you to just have that experience.

I want you to just see the different feeling that you will have and the different way you will start viewing both yourself and the world just from five days of exposing yourself to coaching. So I’m going to be teaching a little bit each day and then you’re going to have the opportunity to come on if you want to get coached yourself, or you don’t have to if you’re really shy and private, that’s totally fine. You will get the same experience by listening to others. You’ll also have an option to type in some questions so we can do some communication that way if you’re more comfortable with that.

And then you’ll just get those replays for as long as you want them after. So come to jodymoore.com/brain and it’s only 19 bucks for the whole week. And I hope that you’ll invite all your friends too because it’s going to be a party.

Okay, so today I’m going to be talking to you about the topic of trust. It’s come up several times lately and I’ve been wanting to do a podcast on it for a while, where people have said to me, “How do I trust this person? How do I trust my teenager after they’ve been lying to me? How do I trust my spouse again after my spouse was unfaithful? How do I trust this person?”

So trust is something that comes up in a lot of areas. We want to trust in the idea that everything will work out in the end. So we have trust that we try to operate from when it comes to the world, we want to trust ourselves. So those are topics that I’m going to reserve for another day. Today I’m going to focus specifically on the trust that people come to me saying they’re wanting to have in their relationship with someone else, whether it be a child, a spouse, a boss, another person in your life.

So I want to begin by diving into this question, what is trust even? We’ve got to begin there. Before we get to how to trust, what does it even mean to trust someone? So I kind of played with this in my own head and I was trying to decide, is trust a thought or is it a feeling? And I think it could go either way because I think for me anyway there’s sort of a sensation I would describe that I might label trust. But for purposes of today I’m going to describe it as more of a thought.

I’m going to put it in the thought line. And I’m going to say that it is a series of beliefs or sentences that we have about a person that then create a very peaceful, reassuring, calming feeling. When I looked up trust, online to see what the traditional dictionary or what have you would describe it as they kept referring to it as a belief, other than the fiduciary type of trust. We’re not talking about that kind of trust today. But the kind we’re talking about here, they always use the word ‘belief’. So I’m going to call it thoughts. We’re going to put it in the thought line.

A belief is just a series of thoughts that you keep on thinking. That’s all a belief is. So what are the thoughts? What are the thoughts, or sentences, or beliefs that cause us to say that we trust someone? Here’s what I think. I think it is simply the thought, he’s going to do what he said he was going to do. Or she means what she’s saying. I think that trust at its most basic is just us choosing to believe that what we are experiencing of that person.

In other words what they are saying, or how they were showing up, or who they are being is as much as possible a true representation of what’s happening internally for them. That what they tell us and the way they represent is an accurate reflection of what they truly intend, or think, or feel. And I keep saying as much as possible because I’m curious if any of us are a 100% trustworthy in this way. I don’t think we are. I don’t think any of us say exactly what’s happening in our minds, not all of it anyway.

We edit it a little bit. We keep certain parts to ourselves as we should, that’s a totally normal healthy way to behave. But we want to know that to a certain extent the way that person is representing to us is a true reflection of what’s happening internally.

So in other words, if my husband tells me, “Yes, I will pick up milk from the grocery store.” I want to believe that he fully intends, and therefore most likely will pick up milk from the grocery store. I always know it’s not a guarantee because he might forget. But if he forgets we don’t say, “I don’t trust him”, in most cases. What we say is, “He’s not reliable”, maybe. But he intended to, that’s not usually a trust violation. It’s just a knowing that he doesn’t have a very good memory or a very good system for writing things down and keeping track of doing what he said he was going to do.

Whereas if he tells me that he’s going to do something and he knows full well internally that he’s not going to, that he has no intention, we would typically classify that as a violation of trust. So I think it’s just a decision that we make to choose to believe that the way that person is representing is a fairly accurate reflection of what’s true for them internally. Yeah, does that sound like a fair definition?

Okay, so when we choose to believe that then we get to feel a confidence, again, a peace, a reassurance. And this is the reason I think that most of us want to trust others is because we want that calm feeling. But also what it does is it allows us to redirect our brains to a totally different topic.

If I ask my assistant to book some travel for me then I want to trust, when she says yes, I will totally be able to and I will be able to have it done by Friday. I want to trust that that is what she genuinely intends to have happen and that she’s going to have systems in place to make it happen. Because then I don’t have to think about booking my travel anymore. Not only do I not have to go spend the time doing it but I don’t have to keep thinking, I haven’t booked my travel yet for that trip. I’ve got to get online and take care of that. I can redirect my brain to something else.

So I think it’s a combination of those two things that we’re looking for. If I have a spouse who’s been unfaithful, what I’m wanting is to believe him or her when they say, “I choose to be faithful to you. I am not going to violate our marriage in that way again.” I want to not have to wonder when he leaves the house where he’s going or who he’s talking to on the phone, or whatever other things we might wonder about in that situation. I want to be able to redirect my brain to a different topic.

So I think it’s a combination of the feeling we’re trying to have, that peaceful, reassuring feeling but also to be able to not have to spin in our heads, which is what we do when we don’t trust somebody. We worry. We wonder. Sometimes we go to great lengths. Sometimes we even spend not just our brain power but we might spend resources, time, money, energy, etc. trying to figure out what’s really true. Because we have this desire within us to know what’s true for some reason.

So if that’s what trust is then I want to ask next, what is it that makes us trust someone? Now, most people think that what causes us to trust someone else is the other person. We think that if they prove to us, or they haven’t at least proven otherwise, if they have a history of doing what they say they’re going to do and being honest. And again, if their outward reflection tends to in the past be a true reflection of what’s happening internally then we say they are trustworthy, we think it’s that other person.

Now, I will say that of course if that’s the case it makes it much easier for us to believe that they’re going to do what they said they’re going to do, they mean what they’re saying. But it’s still our decision to believe that story that causes us to feel trust, it is not their behavior. Because if it were them then there would be a much more direct correlation as to when we are right about how the person is representing versus what’s true and what happens in the end in reality, what’s really going on for them.

But there is not always a correlation because sometimes we are wrong and yet we sometimes still trust people. So I want you to try this on for a little bit of a brain explosion. The better someone is at lying the more we trust them. What? Okay, now, again, it’s still not because they’re good at lying. It’s still not the other person causing me to believe but it’s true. If somebody tends to represent well on the outside and what they’re representing is an accurate reflection of what’s happening internally then I might find it easy to trust them.

But also if they are really, really good at lying or they are good at acting in some way then I might also just trust them. And yet they might just be totally lying. We see this over and over again in the world. Think about Bernie Madoff. So many people trusted him, not only just with their internal thoughts and feelings but they gave their money to him. He was so good at lying that tons of people trusted him, not just in word but in actions. And he was lying.

So I just want you to know because again I want you to keep the authority over your experience, over what you’re believing and what you’re feeling. Other people lying doesn’t cause you to mistrust them, your thoughts cause you to mistrust them.

Now, the next piece of this is, I want to back up for just a minute now that we’ve defined what trust is, what causes us to feel it, that we are the ones in control always. I want to put this question out there because when people come to me and say, “How do I trust my teenager who lies? How do I trust my husband who’s been unfaithful? How do I trust again?” I like to ask, “Is it necessary? Do you want to trust them? Are you sure you want to trust them?” And if they say yes then I like to just ask, “Why?” Nothing wrong with it, you can, maybe it is a good thing to want to trust them but maybe not.

Let’s just not go into it assuming that because on the surface level when we describe relationships we would say it’s ideal to be able to trust each other. I would agree that it is ideal but I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t even think it’s useful in all situations. So if I have a teenager who has a pattern of lying and getting caught, that’s an important component because if they’re really good liars I may still trust them. But let’s say they’re not great liars. Let’s say they get caught lying and now I know that what they say is often not what’s true internally for them.

And people say to me, “How do I trust my teenager?” I say, “Why do you want to trust them? Why do you want to believe that what they’re saying is an accurate representation of what they mean? Because they’ve proven to you time and time again that that’s not the case.” So maybe we want to not trust them. Maybe we want to go into it knowing that possibly at least what they’re saying isn’t true for them.

Now, I feel like there’s so many assumptions behind this topic of trust that I just want to call up and put questions out there for you. Because if I choose not to trust my teenager does that mean I have to be angry, and resentful, and suspicious, and worried? I mean I don’t think so but it’s an interesting question. Does it mean that I have to be manipulative, and controlling, and over-parent them? I don’t think so either. I think you have choices here. But to tell yourself that what you want is just a belief that they’re telling you the truth is sort of an oversimplified solution to a much more complex problem.

What we want is to know that they may not be telling us the truth and then decide from there, who do I want to be? How do I want to live my life? How do I want to feel about this teenager, this child of mine? Do I want to run around trying to control them? I mean probably not, it usually doesn’t work. But I also don’t want to be shocked and surprised every time I learn that what they said wasn’t true. I want to be prepared for it. I want to, yes, protect them when I can, if I can. But I don’t want to turn into a crazy person. I don’t want to be resentful and angry.

I just want to notice that sometimes what they say is even the exact opposite of what’s really true inside for them. So now what? This is true in your marriage too, you guys, people say, “How do I trust my spouse? There’s been infidelity. He’s telling me it’s never going to happen again, or she’s telling me it’s never going to happen again. And I want to believe them but how do I?” And I say, “Okay, you can believe them.” I’m not telling you, you shouldn’t trust people, please don’t get me wrong, you totally can. But also you could know that that might be true and that might not be true.

And that right now it seems like they’re up to living the way that you would want them to live and be loyal to you in the way that you want them to be loyal to you. And that we’re just going to enjoy that as long as possible and maybe that will be forever and we hope so. And if not, then we’ll deal with that when it happens. Do you see what I mean?

But you don’t have to go into it completely going, “Okay, I trust him. It’s never going to happen again.” And tight fisting it and crossing your fingers. Because I feel when we do that we sort of set ourselves up for potential disaster if it does. But I like to go into it knowing maybe it’s not going to happen again and maybe it will. And again I’m not saying you have to stay in this marriage. You should stay in a marriage knowing that it might happen again. This is even true if there hasn’t been infidelity.

I like to know that I choose not to spend my head space worrying and wondering what my husband’s up to. So we might call that trust. But I also know that who knows what’s real? I could be super surprised one day. Or he might become a different version of him one day. I don’t know. I just choose not to spend a lot of head space thinking about that because as far as I know what he’s saying is a true representation of what’s happening internally. But he’s a dynamic person and I could be wrong.

And if that happens then I will have a challenge I’ll need to figure out how to navigate. I’ll have to figure out how to process my own emotions about that and make decisions and all of that. But right now that’s not the case as far as I know. And so I’m just going to choose what we might call trust. But we could be wrong. So here’s the thing, you guys, you get to choose what you want to do. I’m not trying to tell you what you should do or what you should think about this person in your life who maybe has proven in the past that they don’t always tell the truth, or maybe they often don’t tell the truth.

You’re going to get to decide that. You’re going to have to decide that. But what I will say is to just simply say, “I want to trust them”, is something I would unwind and question. Do you really want to? Is it going to serve you to? Or are you actually setting yourself up for potential harm and danger by choosing that? So I don’t think you should give a lot of money to someone that you don’t think is going to take good care of that money, whatever it is that you expect of that money.

I don’t think that you should put yourself, or your children, or anyone in harm’s way if they’ve proven that they are not good stewards of you, or your children, or your property, or anything else. I think that you should decide, I don’t trust that person because often they tell me, or at least in the past they’ve told me they’re going to take care of these things but in the end they don’t. So I think I should not trust that person.

And not trusting someone doesn’t mean you have to be angry, resentful or even judgmental. It just means that you keep the awareness that they have a pattern of not being honest. The other option is that you are allowed to make a choice to just trust someone. And there are many instances in which I recommend that. You can just choose to believe that what they’re saying is a true representation of what’s going on internally for them. You’re allowed to believe that.

You don’t have to have any proof. You don’t have to revisit it over and over again. You don’t have to check up on it if you don’t want to. You can just choose to believe that. And I’ll tell you, most of us live our lives this way.

Every time we get in the car to drive somewhere we choose to trust that most of the other drivers on the road mean well, that when they get in the car and agree that they’re going to follow the traffic laws and that they’re going to be cautious, that that’s what people mean and that’s their intention. If we didn’t trust that we would never get in our car and go anywhere.

Every time I travel somewhere and I give my suitcase to the person at the airport behind the ticket counter, I trust that they’re going to put it where it needs to go and then it’s going to get on the plane. And then it’s going to get put on the luggage carrier afterwards. And I’m going to pick it up at baggage claim, and that some other random person isn’t going to come and take it before I get it. I trust so many people I have never even met. I have no reason to trust any of them. I don’t know them. I don’t know their history.

Some of them might be very, what we would say is ‘untrustworthy’. And yet I just choose to trust it because it helps me live my life the way I want to. I want to be able to travel and I want to be able to check my bag. That’s it. Those are just a couple examples that come to my mind. But there are literally millions of them where we just choose trust because we want to feel peaceful in the world. And we don’t want to have to spend our resources, which would be our head space, our time, our money, thinking about it, checking up on it, wondering, worrying. That’s it. It’s just a choice.

And you’re allowed to make the choice. And if you want to make the choice but you’re not able to, don’t beat yourself up. Don’t feel bad about it. Just know that your brain has a really good reason for believing that what you’re seeing or hearing isn’t a true representation of what’s real internally for someone. That is true in many cases, you guys, and it’s totally fine. So don’t put trust on a pedestal as a requirement or even as the best way to live in all cases. It’s not necessarily.

It’s smart to sometimes not trust that what you’re hearing is true. Make decisions accordingly. Alright, if you do want to trust though, like I said, be patient, give yourself time but try on the idea that you’re simply not going to waste your brain worrying about it because if there’s a problem at that point when it arises you will deal with it. But until then worrying about it isn’t preventing the problem.

I would encourage you, if you’ve been in a situation where someone has violated your trust, someone in a relationship that is important and close in your life, that you get some help doing this. You need some help working through this process. And I love coaching for that. So come into Be Bold and let us help you there or find a private coach. If you go to jodymoore.com on the homepage at the very bottom there’s a directory of coaches that have certified and that have been through advanced training with me, if you want private one-on-one coaching.

And get some help because it can be a process. You have to be really compassionate with yourself along the way but I know that we can help you to get there.

Alright, thanks for joining me today, you guys, have a great rest of your week and I’ll see you next time, bye bye.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

Enjoy the Show? * Don’t miss an episode, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or RSS. * Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. * Join the conversation by leaving a comment below!

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Today I have a very special treat for all of you. My mom, Bonnie Lyman, is on the podcast, and we’re having a super fun conversation around life with adult children, especially when your kids aren’t behaving in the way you thought they would.

My mom is a certified life coach, like myself, and she works with mothers of adult children who want to work on their relationships with their kids, improve their overall happiness, and figure out how to live into this phase of their life with more fulfillment and joy. So, she’s the perfect guest for today’s topic.

Tune in this week to discover how to experience a positive relationship and connection with your adult children, even if they aren’t making choices you appreciate, or even if they don’t actually speak to you. We have the power to decide what we want to believe about our kids, and Bonnie is sharing stories from her clients, as well as her own life, of choosing love for your children and yourself.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Why Bonnie decided she wanted to coach the parents of adult children. * Some of the most common challenges the parents of adult children face. * Why feeling love for your kids is always an option, no matter the choices they make. * The importance of separating yourself from other people’s opinions of you. * Bonnie’s work in helping her clients process their negative emotions. * What you can do to bring fulfillment, opportunity, and validation to your life separate from your children. * How to feel connection and relationship to your kids, even if they’re not speaking to you.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 339: Life with Adult Children with Jody’s Mom, Bonnie Lyman.

Hello everybody, how’s it going? Today I have a very special treat, my mom, Bonnie Lyman is on the podcast. And we have a really fun conversation. My mom is a certified life coach like myself. And she works with mothers of adult children who want to improve their relationships, improve their overall happiness and figure out how to live into that phase of their life with more fulfilment and more joy. Especially when some of your adult children have not turned out to behave in the way that you thought they would.

My mom’s been a great example of this to me and she just has a lot of wisdom and knowledge. And she practices what she preaches. And so I’m very excited for you to meet my mom, Bonnie Lyman. Let’s go.

Jody: So why don’t you introduce yourself, first of all.

Bonnie: Well, I want to thank you, Jo, for having me on your podcast. And for those that don’t know who I am, my name is Bonnie Lyman. And I’m Jody Moore’s mom. But I’m also a lot of other things. I’m Jeff Lyman’s wife. I am a life coach. I’m a mother of five, a grandmother of 14. And I guess I should say this is pretty obvious, I am a mother of five adult children.

Jody: Perfect adult children.

Bonnie: Near perfect adult children, because they didn’t come from a perfect earthly mother or father, were not raised by a perfect earthly mother or father.

Jody: Even if we had it wouldn’t have mattered.

Bonnie: No, I think you guys are pretty perfect but I think it’s because I choose to see you that way.

Jody: Yeah, okay. So you coach people, how do you describe? Tell everyone who you coach.

Bonnie: I coach women, mothers that are struggling in their relationships with their adult children. And I get them to see what’s really causing the pain and help them see different perspectives, hopefully more compassionate perspectives for themselves toward their children as to what exactly is going on and what’s causing this pain.

Jody: What is it that made you decide to coach on this topic?

Bonnie: I think I decided to do this because I ran into a lot of women that were struggling in this area. But also with you guys, with my own family, with my own adult children there were some things I had to work through that was causing a strain on the relationship. And I came to see that really it was only my perception that there was a strain on the relationship. And really there was no strain at all. So it was a pretty miraculous discovery that I could have a good relationship or at least a good connection. I could have good feelings.

I believe love is the best feeling that we can have and that no matter what’s going on in my children’s life I can always feel love even if it maybe just starts with compassion. That I can feel good most of the time. I’m not perfect so I do fall in using the tools that I know to use to get myself to that point where I’m not blaming myself, for one thing for my children’s mistakes. Or they may not even be mistakes but just doing things I don’t like.

But it’s through becoming curious is the maybe just being aware that it’s kind of what’s going on inside my head that’s causing my discomfort and really not what my kids are doing.

Jody: Yeah. And of course I was kidding when I said we’re all perfect. We’ve all made some big poor decisions in our lives most of us at times. So let’s talk a little bit more about some of the main challenges that people see. Because there’s a lot of people listening to this podcast that are in that situation where they’re raising adult kids. I’d be interested in diving into maybe some of the specifics of what these challenges are and how to navigate them.

For example, I know you’ve coached a lot of people who have a child who has said, “We don’t want you in our lives. We don’t want you to see the grandkids”, or for whatever reason, have sort of cut them out of their lives. Haven’t you coached on that?

Bonnie: Yes, several times.

Jody: So let’s talk about that. How do you navigate that with a client?

Bonnie: Well, I try to get them to first of all see, usually they’ll tell me why they think that’s happening and yet we really are not ever going to know. That child may not even know for sure why.

Jody: So in other words there’s a temptation to get into the story of whether or not I actually did do something wrong, or I apologize, or I didn’t do anything wrong, kind of the backstory you’re saying?

Bonnie: Right, right. The first thing they want to do is they always want to know why. Why is this happening? Families aren’t supposed to do this. I didn’t do anything wrong or I was just trying to be helpful. And what it comes down to I find, it’s more about them, the mom and what they did wrong, or why they should be treated differently. And not really trying to understand, what’s going on in my child’s life? Just getting curious because nobody wants that to happen. And yeah, there is some reason but saying that child, the child that told his parents that may not even know why.

So we’re just trying to get curious as to why and not take it personally. So a lot of times I have to back up and maybe start on kind of having some grace, some love for themselves that hey, I did okay and this does not mean really anything about me.

Jody: And don’t you think too even if the child has come right out and said, and by child we mean adult child, even if they’ve come right out and said, “Mom, I’m just really mad at you for this thing that you said”, or what have you. “And that’s the reason why I don’t want you in my life.” Sometimes that happens, it’s still important to separate yourself, I think, from other people’s opinions of you. And even if you agree with them, even if you agree, I wish I wouldn’t have done that or said that, or that wasn’t my best. If I could go back in time I would do it differently.

It’s still that child’s decision whether or not they’re going to get over it, whether or not they’re going to forgive you, whether or not they’re going to invite you back into their lives and work through it. I just think that our fixation on controlling what other people think and feel is especially I would think in this situation where you have an adult child that doesn’t want to see you, it leaves you really struggling in a powerless place.

Bonnie: I would agree. And so a lot of times I feel maybe there does need to be a little break and you just kind of ponder on that. And you don’t take it so personally that you did do something wrong. Or like you said, maybe there was something very obvious. You told them how they should be raising the kids and so their kids flew off the handle and said, “I don’t want to talk to you.”

So when you are working on yourself and it kind of goes back to some self-confidence, that’s a lot of what I do. That you have the self-confidence to go back and say, “I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have said that. And you’re very important to me.” As long as we’re expressing our love or keeping it open to us how I feel then it’s up to them to decide. And then like anything, we’re so impatient. We’ve got to give the child some time to process and for them, give them the space to come back.

And I find it ironical that maybe this all happened one week, not always. And the next week I have a session with these people, it was just a couple of days later, their child called and apologized and kind of told them why. But sometimes that doesn’t happen. And so yes, it’s unfortunate and it makes you sad but then I think you as adults, we kind of need to learn how to process those negative emotions.

Jody: How do you still have a relationship with your adult child if they won’t see you?

Bonnie: I worked with one client that kind of said her kid said, “And I don’t want any phone calls, texts, presents or anything else.” And it was around Christmas time and she wanted to send them a present. And yet she felt like she was breaking their boundary. Well, I think one thing, you have to like your reason for doing it. And then I think you also pay attention to how it makes you feel. And so if she were to just send them a little bit of money or something, if that made her feel good, if that made her feel connected then she, you know, I encouraged her to do that.

And I said, “You may never get a response. You may not even get acknowledgement that you received it but so what if it made you feel good.” Another thing, there was a time when one of my kids really didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Now, he didn’t come right out and say that “I don’t want to see you.” But I kind of knew from you guys and his siblings, some things he was into. So I started – he got interested in – he got a motorcycle. So I started learning about motorcycles. And I felt the connection to him even though we never talked about it.

I remember a client saying, “So when he does talk to you, you have something to talk about?” And I go, “No, not necessarily.” I just kind of felt connected because he knew something about motorcycles and I knew something.

Jody: Yeah. I mean that connection, it’s all happening in your head. Even when you say, “If sending the money makes you feel good, send the money.” Well, sending the money is just an action. What makes you feel good is thinking, I like being someone who sends money to my son or what have you. And that’s who I want to be. That’s, like you said, with respect, I always say be who you want to be. But who we want to be is someone who understands our kids’ desires and wishes and respects that as well.

So this idea of connection though is happening in your head. People tell me all the time, they think we’re best friends, you just haven’t met me, because they listen to me on the podcast. And that’s kind of what you’re describing. And I get that that’s not ideal. We all want to have our children in our lives and be able to talk with them and have that two way connection. But sometimes it’s not going to be that way, at least hopefully it’s a temporary state, but even if not what you do have control over is how you choose to think about that person, the story you’re believing about them.

And it’s, I would imagine, got to be really tough work. I don’t have adult children yet. But of course that would be heartbreaking if one of my kids didn’t want to see me. But what’s the alternative? I can sit around and be mad about it and try to change them which never works. Or I can decide, alright, well, I’m going to be connected in any way that I can. And the odds of them coming back around when you choose to focus on your own health, emotional health and happiness go up significantly too.

You said something on your Instagram that I wanted to have you speak to here. And if you want to find my mama on Instagram, she’s Bonnie Lyman Coaching on Instagram and we’ll link to it. But you shared some tips about showing love to your adult children. And one of the ones you said, “Find something in life that makes you happy that doesn’t require them being present.” So can you talk a little bit about why you think that’s a helpful tip and how you’ve done that?

Bonnie: Well, I think one thing that nobody ever prepares us for is being a parent to adult children. We’re kind of told teenagers could be rough. So we’re kind of geared up and we’re looking for things. But we just – nobody says anything and if you notice, nobody really shares a lot of stuff of their adult children.

And so I think that we grow up or we as we raise these children we’ve got a pretty exact picture in our mind of what it’s going to look like with our relationship with these adult children. Everybody’s going to have kids, everybody’s going to be happily married or maybe not because more and more of that is happening in the world. But I’m still going to be an important part of their life. I mean you are very important and very much needed in your children’s life when they’re in the home. But when they leave the home they become an adult.

And the more years in between you become more equal. I wouldn’t say we become brothers and sisters but we are. We’re all brothers and sisters. And those differences get less and less because we’re adults. And so if you have tied up everything, all of your happiness, and getting that happiness, and fulfilment, and satisfaction in even serving your adult children and their families. Or your happiness comes from shared experience from them, or maybe you’ve even – I never even thought about my growth at that time.

But usually there’s quite a bit of expectation pain, disappointment, it hardly ever works out like you thought it was going to. And so I think it’s a time in your life where you have got to find something in life outside of your children and those family, even though you love those grandkids to death. And there are families where they need grandma to come in and full-time take care or help take care of those kids. But even just doing that, there’s got to be some other interests, some other pursuit, some other goal, something that is causing you to grow in a way you’ve never grown before.

So then you just don’t, I say put all your eggs in one basket, that all the circumstances that caused me to have those thoughts, to have good feelings just doesn’t come from my kids and their family. But it comes from something outside there in the world and life.

Jody: Yeah. I mean this is the same thing that I see people do in their marriages is if your happiness is dependent on other people, that’s a lot of pressure for other, whether it be your kids, or your spouse, or whoever. And they are not always going to be able to live up to it, nor do they actually want that responsibility.

The healthiest marriages I see are the ones where both husband and wife have things, whether it be jobs, or it doesn’t have to be jobs, often for the husband it is a job, but whatever it is, interests like you said, opportunities to grow, to learn that help you feel that growth in your life, the fulfilment maybe we would call it, the sense of purpose. And I can see where as a mother if we’re getting a lot of that from raising kids. And then those kids suddenly become independent, you’ve got to find something to fill that void, it just creates an uncomfortable dynamic I would think.

Bonnie: Right. And it’s kind of like we were expecting our needs in order to feel good you might say, would be to come from our adult children and families or whatever. And we come to find out that it doesn’t necessarily. And so just knowing that, I think it’s good, I think it was even maybe Brooke Castillo that said, “To have a bucket list of things you want to do, accomplish or just, even just do, I guess, until you’re 100 years old.” And so that’s kind of a good place to start.

But it can just be some hobby. It doesn’t have to be something where you’re visible in the world or that you, you know, it doesn’t have to be a huge goal but it’s just something where I say it kind of lights you up. There’s got to be something else that you want to get up for in the morning perhaps to do than to just see your kids and your grandkids.

Jody: So you stayed at home with us, and raised us, and were there for us when we got home from school and things. And then as we got older and started leaving the house you always have been very active in lots of things. So maybe you could share some of those things just to give people ideas about things to explore because one of the common questions I get from women in this situation is, “How do I figure out what that is? How do I find what I’m passionate about or what I’m even interested in?”

Bonnie: Okay. One thing is I think what I tended to do was to start looking around what other people were doing. I think also though the big thing is having that desire. Because when you have that desire I really believe you have told your brain you want this. And so there’s all these opportunities out there, you just never saw before. And pretty soon you start seeing them. And so one thing you can do is just start writing everything down. And you go, “No. No. Maybe.” And then you just start doing that. I mean I was on a bowling team.

Jody: When I was little I think I remember that.

Bonnie: I know, I know. But it was I had a need, I had to get out of the house we did. We didn’t have a lot of money, I couldn’t afford a lot of babysitting. But if I joined this bowling team there was a free nursery there. But I mean I just started thinking, what am I going to do? And one day I was in Williams-Sonoma buying a wedding gift. And it just came out of my mouth, “Are you hiring?” And they go, “Oh, as a matter of fact, yeah, somebody just had their baby early and we need someone right away.” And two weeks later I had a job.

But I think it’s, if you just start with the desire and just believing, yeah, I’m going to start seeing things, I’m going to figure this out. Because I know a lot of times we try too hard to think of things. But it can also be trial and error, try some things and not like it. But then I didn’t even realize, I really like being around people. And that’s probably why I was on the bowling league, that’s probably why I went to work at Williams-Sonoma. Not that I needed the money or yes, but it was a fun job. But it was being around people.

And so then I started looking for more things that caused me to fulfill that need.

Jody: You also talk about Hoopfest.

Bonnie: That was another thing, I mean that stemmed way back from high school, a teacher that was interested in me was the basketball coach. And because of that, that led me to one of my sons, I would sit and watch basketball games. And I mean that’s just another way to connect. Maybe with a child that they’re into sports and they don’t want anything to do with you; you would feel a connection with them. But I volunteered for an event that goes on in our city every year called Hoopfest which is this huge basketball tournament.

And again, I wanted something just a little more permanent between having jobs and the church, volunteering at school, other things. It was like, yeah, I just kind of want a little more validation as in a paycheck. Did I need the money? No. But that was fulfilling to me. And so I just went in and I said, “Do you ever hire anybody just seasonally to work the event?” And again they go, “Yeah. And we’re looking for two people right now.”

Jody: You just found one.

Bonnie: It’s kind of like you get ready to sell a house and that doesn’t happen now but you can say, “Oh my gosh, only three people have come by to look at my house.” But you only need one.

Jody: Yeah. And I do think you’ve always been good about, you’re not afraid to ask people that. And even if, like with the Williams-Sonoma example, it’s not like you were at home thinking, I should get a part-time job somewhere. You just, because you were out and you were in that store and you liked the environment, it came to your mind to ask. And you could have easily turned down that job. I think that sometimes we think we have to sit back and have it all figured out and have a plan and then go execute it.

But I like how you think in a more organic way. And you just kind of open yourself up to meeting people and finding opportunities. And some of them are the right path and some of them are not. But that is how I think you end up where you’re meant to be. Talk about when you went to coach training. You now have a coaching practice, I don’t think that you even planned on that. I didn’t even plan on that when I went to coach training, right?

Bonnie: Right. I went to coach training because you invited me to. I didn’t know anything about the model. I don’t know how I survived. But by going there I just thought, yeah, I’ve always been fascinated on what motivates people.

Jody: How old were you?

Bonnie: I was, gosh, it was in 2014.

Jody: And it’s almost your birthday. And you’re going to be how old?

Bonnie: Seventy-four.

Jody: So I don’t know, I can’t do math.

Bonnie: I can’t either. So it was in 2014, but I mean you could say, I didn’t start my business, this business till I was 71. And so I go to coach training and yes, I loved it but it wasn’t like oh yeah, I’m going to be a coach. And I remember you telling me, “Hey, it’s after this week of training that all the work is going to have to do.” So I did a little of it. I wasn’t going to get certified but you said to me, “I think you can do it, mom.”

Jody: You kind of thought, well, that was a good experience. I just want to have the experience. And you weren’t going to do the requirements to become certified until I was like, “Mom, come on.” Anyway, sorry, go ahead.

Bonnie: And that’s part of my personality, not everybody’s that way. You gave me a challenge, by golly, I’m going to try to go after it and accomplish it. And so I did. But even then I mean I kind of dabbled. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I was working at Weightwatchers. And that was just another thing. I think, I really think the universe, God, whatever you want to call it, conspires in our favor. And if we’re just looking for opportunities, things come up. And so I had to lose some weight. And so I went to Weightwatchers and I go, “I can do that, that looks like fun.”

And again it was around people, if it was all online at that time I probably wouldn’t have done it but it was around people and so I did that. I kind of thought I want to be a weight loss coach. But then we went to Africa and yes, the best part about being in Africa again, was the people. I think one thing though that you told me that I think is really beneficial is number one, not to overthink every decision that we make. And number two, once you make a decision don’t go back and revisit it. Don’t go back and keep revisiting, was that the right one or not?

I mean there was one time, my kids were still little and I got this job in a mall. And somebody, one of you kids got sick and I mean after 10 days I knew this was not where I was supposed to be or what I was supposed to be doing right now. And I’m not saying that for everybody but that was just my feeling. And so I quit that job. I wasn’t embarrassed to tell them. And I mean it wasn’t the end of the world that I quit a job. I think it’s different than dreaming. I think we always ought to be dreaming. And I think even just dreaming about things then you start to see opportunities that are out there.

Jody: Totally. Well, I think again that I recall my childhood as my mom was a stay at home mom. She was always there. But I know you also were doing all these other things. You served a lot in church callings and like you said, all these little jobs and your bowling and just the things that you did to keep yourself fulfilled that I wasn’t even aware of as a child really. I do remember I think my first journal entry ever is a picture of me and Natalie, and I wrote, I help take care of Natalie when mom goes bowling. And I remember thinking of my mom, she’s a bowler.

Bonnie: And I had a pink bowling ball.

Jody: Yes, I do remember the pink bowling ball with your initials on it. But anyway I just love that message that it’s not like you have to find your purpose. I think because people make it so heavy sometimes or that it’s going to be a waste of time or a waste of money if I do that thing and then I don’t go build a business. Or if I take that job and then I quit two weeks later, that was a waste of time. All of that is nonsense.

That’s just the way of life is it’s trying things out, it’s meeting people. You don’t ever have to think of any of it as a waste. It’s always just one step closer to whatever is the next thing. And sometimes it means taking the wrong step and then redoing your step. But I just think you’ve always been a good example of that. I know because I talk about you on the podcast sometimes, so I know people want to just hear how you’re doing, how your health is, how you’re feeling and everything.

Bonnie: My health is, the doctor will ask me, “How is your overall health?” And I’ll go, “I don’t know, you tell me.” So I would say…

Jody: I want to be like, well, I pooped today so I guess it’s good.

Bonnie: Yeah. I would say I’m doing well. I still have pain 24/7 but again, there is so much in your mind that you can do to even manage pain. That I thought, I’m just not going to do, not do anything the rest of my life because I’m in this pain. And so I just thought, okay, I do what I can do every day until my back says, “Okay, stop.” I don’t even plan ahead, okay, you can only do this many hours. I just go for how many hours I can do every day.

So my pain is good, the type of cancer I had – have, I guess you could say, they say it’s in remission, multiple myeloma, they’ll never say you’re cancer free. And so they say it always comes back. They’re getting to closer to a cure but that’s just the way it is. I don’t know if it’s my age. I don’t know if I choose to but I do not worry every day or even the week I go in for a blood test, that something is negative is going to come up. I’ll just deal with that when it does. So I would say it’s good.

Jody: Would you say, because it seems from my observation but tell me if I’m wrong that as you’re able to do what you need to do to keep your emotional health, which is not always possible. And I’m not saying that anyone who can’t do that should feel bad about it. But you do what you can to keep yourself emotionally healthy which makes the pain more tolerable?

Bonnie: Definitely. You’ve got to be excited about something. And if you’re excited, maybe it’s a buffer. But when I’m coaching a client I never think, and four o’clock is usually a hard time. And I have some clients that I don’t start till 4:30. I never once have thought, I can’t wait till this call is over so I can go lay down and get some relief for my back. That emotion of loving what I’m doing just kind of kicks in, yeah.

Jody: Well, and a buffer, the way I teach buffering is that it’s only a buffer if it has another negative consequence it’s creating.

Bonnie: That’s true.

Jody: Yes, coaching is maybe helping you avoid some of the emotional pain but there’s no downside. On the other side you’re not like, “Darn it, I wish I wouldn’t have done that.” So it’s not a buffer, it’s just a healthy coping mechanism as Dr. Phil would say.

Bonnie: Right. It’s very interesting though for anybody that is in physical pain. There’s a book out called, I think it’s The Way Out by Alan Gordon. And it’s the same, almost the same tools that you teach and I teach about not resisting the pain. And a lot of times pain will come because our brain is trying to protect us from harm coming. But if you know, I know that just because I have pain doesn’t mean I’m doing damage to my back. So just acknowledging that I have been able to lessen my physical pain also. Just not resisting it and just telling my brain, it’s okay, I’ve got this, it’s just some residue.

Jody: Pretty amazing what the brain can do. Okay, so we’re running out of time. And they’re trying to vacuum outside my door and I never stop anyone from vacuuming my house. So let’s just tell people where to find you, if people are interested in learning more from you and/or maybe even getting some coaching from you, where should they go?

Bonnie: If you go to my website, bonnielyman.com.

Jody: That’s Bonnie, B-O-N-N-I-E Lyman, L-Y-M-A-N.com.

Bonnie: Right. There’s a little tab there to book a call. If you go to my Instagram account which is Bonnie Lyman Coaching. Go to my profile, there’s quite a few links to either book a call, get signed up for my email, I have a podcast called Loving on Purpose.

Jody: Okay. And if they book a call with you then they’re going to get some free coaching?

Bonnie: Yes. It’s a free 60 minute, I call it a consult. We just talk about whatever you’ve got on your mind that’s not going well in your life.

Jody: Nice, a free coaching session. And then you’ll help them figure out if your program’s a right fit for them or not.

Bonnie: Right.

Jody: Yeah. Okay, cool, bonnielyman.com or podcast, what was the podcast called again?

Bonnie: Loving on Purpose.

Jody: This is a new podcast, yeah?

Bonnie: Yes. I’ve only had three out, comes out on Wednesdays.

Jody: Okay, Loving on Purpose. Alright, well, thanks, mom, for coming on my show finally.

Bonnie: Thanks, Jo.

Jody: Alright, we’ll see you soon, dinner at your house Sunday.

Bonnie: Okay. Alright, dessert maybe.

Jody: Dessert at your house.

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One of my favorite things to discover when coaching people is when they have a thought that sounds positive, full of happy-sounding and pretty words, but that isn’t actually serving them through driving authentic actions they need to take to love their lives more. I call this pretending.

Now, it’s okay to pretend sometimes. But in most cases, it’s not useful. So if you’ve found yourself in a situation where you’re worried about your child, resentful toward your partner, or judging your friend and you have to pretend you’re not by being reassuring, nice, or anything that’s not what you authentically want to do, you need to tune in this week.

Tune in this week to discover the problem with pretending. I’m sharing why, despite seeming noble and harmless, pretending isn’t serving you or anyone else in your life, it isn’t coming from integrity, and how to have fully authentic and honest relationships instead.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Why pretending goes in the action line of The Model. * How pretending in your relationships always has the opposite effect you want it to. * Where true connection comes from and why it is nurtured through authenticity. * How to see whether you’re in a relationship that relies on you pretending or being inauthentic. * The influence you’re trying to have over others when you’re in a place of pretending. * 3 alternatives to pretending, none of which involve hurting the other person.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 338: Pretending Problems.

Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast. I am so happy that you’re here. If you’re listening, I have a fantastic powerful message to share with you today that I think you will find to be really useful. Before we do, today’s episode is brought to you by Train Your Brain.

Train Your Brain is a five day intensive coaching experience that I will be teaching January 24th to the 28th. It’s 2022 so if you’re listening to this later then you might have missed it but otherwise make sure you join me. It’s 19 bucks and we’re going to go deep on the learning and the coaching. And I can tell you from people that have attended in the past it’s a pretty transformative experience for your $19. So go to jodymoore.com/brain if you want to join me and I will see you there.

So today we’re going to talk about pretending and here’s why. I want to back up for just a minute, pretending we’re going to put in the action line of the model. So for those of you who don’t know what the model is, I teach it all the time on this podcast. And I’ll talk about it a little bit here so stay with me, you’ll be fine. I teach it in depth in my book, Better Than Happy. So you can learn about it there. But I want to talk about the point of the model. There’s still a lot of misunderstanding out there about the point of the model.

The model seems like, and actually I should back up, let me just give you the two minute version of the model. We have circumstances that happen outside of us and then we have thoughts, the second part of the model is thoughts. Thoughts are sentences in our brain meaning that we give to circumstances. Those thoughts generate the third part of the model which is our feelings. Those feelings are sensations we feel within us which drive the fourth part of the model, our actions, how we show up, what we do or don’t do and how we do it.

And all of that, the thought, feeling and action together creates the fifth part of the model, the result. So the misunderstandings that happen from the model come from things like, okay, so you’re saying we should think positive. And I’m saying, maybe. I mean I’m saying you can think positive if you want to and in some circumstance thinking positive might serve you. But I’m also saying there may be circumstances in which you want to think something negative.

And in fact one of my favorite things to discover when I’m coaching people is when they have a thought that we would say is a positive thought because it sounds positive, it has positive words in it, pretty words in it maybe. Maybe it’s something people say all the time. But it may or may not be serving you in the end. If it’s generating a certain feeling that’s driving a certain action that’s not getting you the result that you want, then even though many people might call that a positive thought it may not be a useful thought.

Just like there are some thoughts that we might call negative thoughts, that when we put them into the model and take a look at them for you in a particular circumstance. They may be useful even though we would label them negative because they have negative words in them. And there aren’t just thoughts that are good useful thoughts and thoughts that are useless thoughts. It’s not a one size fits all, it depends on the person, it depends on the circumstance, it depends on what feeling that thought generates for you in that particular circumstance.

So the model, what it does, the point of the model is we are trying to show the part of us that is sort of subconscious, that just happens without us thinking about it in our brains. We’re trying to better inform that part of us as to which stories, and sentences, and belief systems are useful and which ones are not because that part of us, that subconscious brain gets misinformed. It’s misinformed for all kinds of reasons. So it may be that you experienced something traumatic.

And now your subconscious brain has memorized that certain things, or people, or situations, or events are very dangerous when they may be or they may not be. For example, last week we had a snow day and it snowed at just the right time of day. And the temperature was just so that when the sun went down there was a layer of water on the roads that turned to pure ice. And as far as I could tell, every road in the city of Spokane and Spokane Valley was like an ice rink.

So this happened to be the time of day when the kids would be coming home from school because in December in Spokane the sun goes down at about 4:00pm. And the buses pick the kids up about 3:30 and by the time they get home it’s getting close to 4:00. So the buses were already delayed from trying to get the high schoolers and the middle schoolers home. My kids were at elementary school. And about 4:15 I get a message saying, ‘the bus is still going to be another hour and a half so you may want to come and get your kids’.

So my oldest son and I got in the car to go to the elementary school and get our kids and I did not realize that the roads were going to be an ice rink like they were. And when we got to a particular road in our neighborhood that is a bit of a hill, that has a drop off on the righthand side and no guardrail I suddenly started to panic. We were in my husband’s truck and we were just sliding down this hill towards the edge. My son and I were both freaked out. Luckily we did not slide over the edge.

We somehow made it down that hill safely but it was the worst road conditions I have ever been on in my life. And my heart was pounding, and I was sweating, and my face was flushed. And I’ll spare you the rest of the story but it was a long night trying to get home. So that particular road in my neighborhood, that hill, the street is called Saltese. Whenever I’m leaving my house now, this was just a week ago, I always think, well, I’m not going down Saltese, I’m going to go a different way.

Now, keep in mind, right now the roads are in pretty good condition. We still have some snow out there. There’s some rain and snow happening and it gets wet. And it’s not like summer roads but overall the roads are fine. But my brain’s like, we’re not going down Saltese possibly ever again. We might never go down that street again because there is an alternative way to get out of the neighborhood and we will just avoid that road altogether.

So there’s this part of my brain that says that road is scary and dangerous but guess what? That road is not scary and dangerous necessarily. Maybe it was hazardous conditions when I was there last. That doesn’t mean that it is in general. So because of that event my brain has been somewhat misinformed when it comes to making judgments about driving on the road. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing. In many ways this serves us well because now my brain knows to be careful and to check conditions.

There’s so many things that I learned from that experience that are valuable. But there’s also some noise and nonsense in there that’s not going to serve me, that’s going to prevent me from possibly living my life the way I want to. I mean maybe not, I could go the other way. But there are many, many things like this that we go through in our lives that then we memorize and take with us into the future.

Some of you may have had a parent growing up who would easily lose their temper or get upset. And as children we don’t really know what to do with that. We tend to take it on. We start to learn, okay, if I behave in a certain way then they are nicer and I’m not scared of them anymore. If I misbehave, this happens. And then maybe we grow up overly trying to manage the emotions of people around us.

Again, nothing wrong with being considerate of other people’s feelings. But if you’re overly trying to control how other people feel you’ll find that holds you back in your life in many ways. Maybe you tried to pursue some kind of a goal and it didn’t work out. And you were really disappointed and maybe you were embarrassed. And your brain memorized, hey, don’t try things that are too big or new because if they don’t work then you feel embarrassed, and you feel disappointed, and you feel ashamed and that’s pretty terrible so we should just play small and play safe.

Do you see what I’m saying? Your brain memorizes based on your life experience, based on things people tell you, based on movies and TV shows, based on all kinds of things. Your brain is taking it all in trying to decide what’s true, what’s safe and how you should view yourself in the world. So now enter the model. We take the model and we put things into their proper categories. Is this a circumstance, a thought, a feeling, an action or a result?

And the reason that we complete models when we do this, we categorize things but then we fill in the rest of the model is to show the brain, hey, this is not useful in this situation. For example, if I have a child making decisions I don’t like and I am thinking, oh no, he’s going to ruin his life and I’m feeling worried, a part of my brain thinks that’s useful. So we put it into a model and again we do this on an individual case by case basis.

But it’s not uncommon for me to be talking to a parent. And when we find that the thought is he’s going to ruin his life and the feeling is worried, then we go to the action line. And I say, “Now, how do you behave around your child? Who do you become? How do you show up from worry because you’re thinking the thought, he’s going to ruin his life?” And this is where pretending comes in.

Many times clients will say to me, “Well, I mean I sit him down and I try to remind him what these choices might lead to, or I try my best not to tell him that I’m worried, I just go to my room if I need to. I separate myself. Maybe I avoid. Maybe we avoid certain topics. We don’t talk about certain things. And I just keep quiet when he or she behaves the way they do.” So there can be all different flavors of this. But what I tend to do for my clients is I write in their action line if we’re writing out the model, ‘pretending’.

I purposely call it that. They almost never say that. People don’t say to me, “Then I pretend.” They say, “No, I don’t act rude, I don’t act resentful to my husband even though I’m thinking he should be helping more. I don’t say what I’m thinking, I keep it to myself. I’m still very nice, and polite, and kind.” And I want you to be nice, and police, and kind. I even think it’s okay to pretend sometimes. I just want you to see it for what it really is which is in most cases not useful. And then I’m going to tell you in a minute what are some alternatives to consider.

But if I’m worried about my child, resentful towards my husband, angry at my neighbor, judging my friend, and I have to pretend then I am not being very authentic. Here’s the problem with this action line of pretending. First of all it does the opposite of what we probably want in our relationships. I don’t know about you but I find that my best relationships that I value the most, that help me feel the most alive, the most connected to God, the most Christlike, the most who I want to be and the best feeling are the relationships where I’m the most connected.

Connection is what we crave as humans. Now, I’m not saying you have to have a deep level of connection with every single person in your life. I get that. There’s going to be different levels of connection that are appropriate in different relationships. But I’m just saying, connection is the ultimate in a relationship. That’s what we really seek. And it can look a lot of different ways. But connection comes from seeing and knowing the other person and feeling seen and known yourself. That’s it, that’s connection.

Now, you can have a one way connection where you just see and know that person and they don’t know you. And that still can be powerful. In other relationships we are seeking a two way connection where they see and know us as well. So if I show up pretending then connection is not even possible. It’s not even possible for me if I’m pretending. Because even if that other person really likes me and thinks that they see and know me, they don’t really see and know me, they are seeing and knowing a pretend version of me, that I’m pretending to be.

So I also can’t very effectively see and know another person if I’m pretending because I’m sort of guarded. I’m sort of trying to be nice because what’s really true isn’t very kind usually, or it’s just not very helpful. The reason we pretend is because we don’t want the other person to know what we’re really thinking or feeling about them because it’s not kind. So connection is a seeing and knowing another person and embracing all of it, not a rejection of the other person.

We don’t connect with people when we reject them and judge them. And that rejection may be again, a more pure form of judgement or it may just be worry. So it can take lots of different forms. So it’s the opposite of connecting when we pretend. We can’t be seen and known and we’re not truly seeing and knowing them. When we truly see and know someone else, let’s say they’re making – again let’s go back to the child making decisions that we are concerned about.

To truly see and know them would be, I wonder why they’re choosing that. I wonder why. I wonder what’s so – let’s get a concrete example. I’m going to make this make more sense. My daughter told me the other day that one of her friends has decided to start vaping. So she’s saying to me, “I just don’t understand, mom, why she would choose that because we’re taught everywhere at school and everywhere else about how vaping is so bad for you.”

I mean I can see back in the day we didn’t realize smoking was bad for us so everybody smoked. But today we know that. I don’t understand. So that’s her not connecting with her friend. And it’s confusion, it’s judgement, it’s whatever. I said, “Well yeah, I mean I agree, vaping is probably not your best choice but let’s try to understand it. Why would somebody choose that?” Somebody might choose that because they’re struggling in some way, they’re feeling something negative and they don’t know what to do with those feelings. And vaping temporarily provides some relief.

Or they’re trying to fit in with some other friends or feel included, or that they belong somewhere. And when they vape with those friends they feel connected to those people in that way. So I’m not saying it’s a good choice. I’m glad you’re choosing not to. But we can see and know that friend and it doesn’t mean we have to say that we love that behavior or even that we’re not concerned about what that might create in her future. But connection comes from, I get it. I get why you would make that choice, it makes sense.

And if I don’t get it I want to be curious and open with people, and open to hearing them out so that I can connect. You don’t have to agree with people. You don’t have to view the world the same way they do in order to connect with people. You just have to stop pretending. Pretending closes us off. We don’t have open honest conversations when we’re pretending. We just sort of do this surface level act. So that’s the first reason, is it’s really disconnecting.

It’s also actually not very honest, it really isn’t. It’s us lying. Sometimes I’ll do this with my clients as we write out their model. Let’s say they say, “Well, my mother-in-law, she’s the worst, or my daughter-in-law.” I always use mother-in-law examples but I coach just as much on daughter-in-law, so let’s use the daughter-in-law this time.

“My daughter-in-law, she’s the worst, she doesn’t like me, she doesn’t appreciate all the things I do for the grandkids.” And so we put a thought like that in the thought line. We look at the feeling it creates which is judgment, resentment, defensiveness etc. And then we get to the action. And my client might say, “Well, I just try to be supportive.” And I say, “Okay, so we lie basically?” We try to say things like, “Okay, whatever you want.” But inside what we’re thinking is, that’s a dumb decision, I can’t believe you don’t see it my way.

So it’s not very honest. It’s not as operating out of the utmost amount of integrity. So I just know that I feel better when I’m being a little more authentic. I am certainly not perfect at it, I have a long ways to go. But those areas where I feel kind of icky, it’s because I’m pretending/lying.

Okay, I talked about this a little bit already but I want to elaborate on it. Sometimes people in our lives really like it when we pretend, they do. They would much prefer that we not have a conversation about whatever’s going on that’s difficult. And they would prefer that we just smile and let them do their thing. They don’t really care that we’re not connecting at times. They’re happy with the pretending but here’s the thing. They’re still not loving you, they’re loving a pretend version of you.

I want to go to a different example here. I want to talk about a relationship where maybe you do want to believe that this person loves you or cares about you, or at least kind of likes you. Let’s talk about a marriage situation. There is a tool out there that people like a lot called love languages. And I like the love languages too, I don’t have anything against it. But what I don’t like is when people misuse love languages. I see people all the time use love languages to say, “Hey, spouse of mine, my love language is gifts so could you please give me gifts so that I can feel loved?”

I personally think that’s a misuse of love languages. Because even if my spouse says, “Okay, I can do that. I will buy you a gift and give it to you so that you can feel loved.” My spouse is now pretending because I asked him to pretend. Could you pretend to be someone who wants to buy me a gift to show love? If that’s not his love language then now I’m asking him to pretend to make it easier for me to just believe what I want to believe.

So again what I’m loving now is a pretend version of him and he’s pretending for me. I just think that there’s a deeper level of work available which is I’m going to do the work to decide whatever I want to decide about what I want to think that you think of me. And you just be you and you show love in whatever way you want to and I’ll show love in whatever way I want to.

And I will manage my brain around what I’m going to make it all mean. Because then I develop a deeper level of connection with myself first of all instead of could you just help me pretend to believe this make believe story? And I also then am more available to connect much more intimately with my spouse from being who I truly am. I mean this is what Brené Brown teaches us that vulnerability is, being willing to be seen and known. And risking the rejection that comes from being truly seen and known, that’s true vulnerability which leads to true intimate connection.

The other thing that I see pretending do that creates problems in people’s models is we can only pretend for so long before we start building resentment. A lot of times the reason that we’re pretending is because we’re hoping for something in return, even if just what we’re hoping for is that the person won’t be grumpy, or angry, or withdraw from us, or judge us, or hate us, or etc. We pretend out of an attempt to manipulate the other person in some way, manipulate their behavior, manipulate their thoughts, manipulate their feelings.

And when that doesn’t work as it often doesn’t then we grow resentful. Why do I have to be the one walking around being kind, putting a smile on, just dealing with it, sucking it up and you don’t have to change anything? But you don’t have to be the one doing any of that either. Don’t pretend, pretending will in most cases lead to resentment. And resentment is just a sign that you are not authentically connecting with yourself and meeting your own needs.

Okay, so even if we can do it for a little while and maybe it works for you in sort term bursts but it’s a short term fix. It’s not really going to connect us in the long run. It’s not going to solve problems at the root like we really want to. So what are the alternatives then, Jody? What do I do? Do I just walk around saying all the nasty mean thoughts that come to my mind? Do I tell my child I’m freaked out? Do I tell my husband I’m resentful? That doesn’t seem right. And I want to give you some alternatives because you’re right. I’m not suggesting you do that either.

So I’m going to try to teach this in three different ways. I’m going to first talk about it the way that Gary Vaynerchuk talks about it. I’m going to tell you a little bit about how Brooke Castillo teaches it. And then I’m going to tell you the way I like to think about it. And I’m hoping that between those three you’ll pull something or something will click with you and you’ll either take one of these ways or develop your own way of thinking about it. And I would love for you to come and share your thoughts about it too over on Instagram.

So Gary Vaynerchuk, in fact this is something he teaches in his company. It’s one of the values that they have in his organization which is kind candor. Be kind and have candor. So candor meaning tell the truth, be upfront with people, be honest, even be direct you might say is part of candor and do it with kindness.

So I love listening to him talk about this because for those of you that aren’t familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk, he is a very kind of abrupt in your face, super confident, fast talking, fast moving, extremely successful businessman who works really hard, has kind of a foul mouth. And to hear him talk about kind candor is pretty fascinating. You can tell it’s authentic. I don’t think Gary V has a pretending problem, although I think actually he does at times, I’ve heard him say, but you wouldn’t expect it from hearing him talk.

He talks about telling each other the truth, matters, that we owe it to each other. In our company he’ll say to tell each other the truth. And you can tell the truth with kindness, you can do so with kindness. I recently heard him on Instagram too just talk about kindness being something that you do because it’s who you want to be. You don’t do it expecting something in return. Don’t expect return favors. Don’t expect that people will even be kind back. Just be kind because you want to be kind.

And I would echo to tell the truth because you want to tell the truth. Don’t expect that other people won’t pretend, they might. That’s okay. We’re just trying to be the best version of us because that will serve you in the end. And let other people come along on their own timeline. So that’s how Gary Vaynerchuk or Gary V talks about it.

Brooke Castillo one time said to me, “The truth is always the kindest thing.” And I remember, I’ve heard her say this several times since. But when she said that to me it was so powerful because I needed to tell somebody the truth and it was going to be hard for me to say because I was afraid it was going to be hard for them to hear. I knew that they would probably have thoughts about what I would say that would cause them to feel hurt.

And I love this person. I didn’t want to hurt this person but I knew I needed to tell her the truth. And I just kept saying, “I just feel so bad, I don’t want to hurt this person. I don’t want to be mean.” And she said, “Jody, the truth is always kind.” I mean think about it, do you want people to walk around pretending to you or would you rather that they tell you the truth? When it comes right down to it, most of us, we’d rather know the truth.

Okay, so the final way I wanted to talk about it which is the way I tend to teach it is I like to encourage people to, yes, tell the truth, but remember that we get to tell the whole truth. The whole truth isn’t just, hey, I wish you would help out more around the house, honey. And I’m resentful that you’re not helping. That’s part of the truth. You know what the whole truth is? The whole truth is I’m afraid to tell you this because I’m afraid of what you’re going to make it mean and then you’re going to be upset and that’s going to put distance between us.

And sometimes I question whether or not I should be asking you this because I know you work really hard too doing what you do, and I get it, that sometimes I don’t do the things I say I’m going to do. So I feel kind of guilty and conflicted. And I’m afraid to tell you this but I’m telling you because I love you and this is what’s real for me and I’d love for us to solve it together. That’s the whole truth.

The whole truth is, hey, teenager, I love you so much and when I heard about the decisions that you’re making I felt scared. It scares me because I’ve heard a lot of stories about how that can lead to a place that doesn’t serve you. And I just love you and I just want you to be happy, and successful, and have all that you desire. And at the same time I know I can’t control you. And I’m afraid that me telling you this is going to push you further away and then you’re just going to start lying to me and not tell me everything and that would be heartbreaking.

And you get to make your own choices and I have to wrestle with my own feelings about it. But I want you to know this is what I’m thinking, feeling, and that I’m concerned and can we talk about it? I mean you can sit down and think about what you want to say ahead of time. I haven’t done that with this episode. I’m just throwing out examples.

But the whole truth is messy and do you notice how the whole truth is kind of lovable? The whole truth is actually like it’s kind of irresistible. Because that level of authenticity and vulnerability when people open up and share it with us, it’s tough to reject that. It’s tough not to feel a little bit compassionate because we recognize it as the truth. Did you know this? As human beings we’re so good at reading one another, we can tell when people are pretending, we can, even my little, little kids can tell when I’m pretending.

The whole truth is just so connecting. And again we can be kind about it. I’m not saying you have to – when I say the whole truth, I don’t mean that every thought and feeling happening for you needs to be shared. I’m just saying, don’t leave out the parts where you share your own vulnerability, where you share that you’re scared or you’re nervous, and that you’re not sure. That’s what we want to do.

We want to go, “Listen, I’ve made a decision and this is what we’re going to do.” And there is a time for that but there’s also probably more often, times for I have no idea what we should do but I want to have a conversation with you. I want to connect with you. I want to understand you. I want to hear you. And I’m afraid. That’s the whole truth.

So listen, when you put your thoughts into a model, you look at specific circumstances, you look at what you’re thinking, you ask yourself, how do I feel when I think that? And then you look at your action line, how do I show up? Just ask yourself, am I pretending? Because if so you’re probably disconnecting, you’re not showing up at your best, you’re not even available for true connection and ultimately you will likely build resentment. That may work in the short term but it’s likely not going to work in the long term.

So instead, try some kind candor, just remember that the truth is always kind and give yourself permission to tell the whole truth, let it be messy, that is how we connect as individuals.

Alright, thanks for joining me today you guys have an amazing rest of your week. I’ll see you next time.

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Are you focused on the past, or are you future-focused? Future focus is a concept that I learned when I went through coach training, and I thought, “That’s neat.” But over time, I’ve gained an amazing appreciation for how powerful it is, and how challenging it is if you’re not aware of your brain’s tendency to go to the past.

I see this coming up for my clients over and over again, where they tend to want to focus on the past, which makes sense because looking to the past is super easy. However, in coaching, we like to spend more time in the future, and if you can start shifting to future focus more of the time, I guarantee it will 10X your results.

Tune in this week to discover how to start creating the future that you want from a place of intention. I’m sharing the problem with letting your brain look to the past to decide where your problem is in the present, and how you can start looking forward with future focus instead.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Why coaching is about looking forward, not back. * What we can learn from looking to the past, but why we don’t want to spend too long there. * How to see where you’re going to the past and getting stuck there. * What our brain does when we start looking to the past to face a current circumstance. * How to start the work of redirecting your brain towards the future.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 337: Future Focus.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me. We are just about to enter a brand new year. How about that? I love a new year. I love the energy, and momentum, and excitement, and sort of recommitment to all the things we want to be and New Year is a fun holiday because it’s a simple holiday. We don’t have to buy a bunch of gifts and decorate. But we get to hang out, and relax, and enjoy one another. So hope you’re having a lovely New Year.

I wanted to mention before we get into future focus that I am going to be teaching a five day workshop called Train Your Brain. And I want to invite you to join me because it is amazing. I’ve done it a couple of times before, last year we did it a couple of times. And people loved it. I get so many messages from people about how they had huge shifts in their thinking and therefore in their lives after going to Train Your Brain.

It’s only $19 and what will happen is you will get to join me via Zoom, if your schedule doesn’t allow you can just listen to them after the fact because we will record everything. But I’m going to be teaching you how to train your brain in a way that will serve you. I’m going to teach you how to get your head in the right place to be able to achieve your goals and to be able to solve problems. So I always think about my work as being in two buckets. And it’s useful in both buckets.

And there will be times when you have a challenge or problem that feels overwhelming. Maybe it’s a relationship issue, something going on with one of your kids, a health problem etc. There’ll be trials that come along. And these tools are so powerful for helping you navigate those kinds of things. And then in the second bucket there are goals or habits maybe we’re trying to develop, things that we want to achieve or ways in which we want to improve ourselves, again these tools work really, really well in that bucket as well.

So you can bring any of those things to the calls. Every day there will be 90 minutes on Zoom and you can raise your hand and come on and I will coach you or you can post questions. I will be interacting you, I want to get to know you. I want to hear your specific situation and questions. And we’re going to take the things I teach you on the podcast and apply them in real life which is where the magic happens.

And if you either come or watch the replays of those five days back to back I would challenge you, of course you don’t have to listen to every day. But I would challenge you to try to, just for one week commit yourself to listening to those every day. I promise you by the end of that five days you will feel a complete shift in yourself and that’s pretty fun. So go to jodymoore.com/brain. And like I said, it’s happening the last week of January, January 24th through the 28th.

All the details are at jodymoore.com/brain but essentially you’ll get all of the information you need and you are welcome to come live or you’re welcome to just listen after the fact. Last thing is if you are in Be Bold, if you are one of my clients in that program you will already get this. We will be posting it every day in Be Bold. So you don’t need to pay the $19 unless you really want to come live. We’ll give it to everybody in Be Bold. And anyway, it’s going to be a great week, tell your friends.

Okay, so I want to talk about future focus today because this is a concept that I learned when I went through coach training. And it’s been – when I first learned it I thought that’s cool, I like that. And I could see the value of it. But over time I’ve gained a greater appreciation for just how powerful it is and how challenging it is, especially if you’re not aware of your brain’s tendency to go to the past. But I see it over and over again in my clients that I coach on all different things. And just noticing the past focus and choosing to shift to a future focus, it will 10x your results.

But it’s also challenging to do. So I want to talk about it a little bit. I want to teach you the concepts and then I want to give you some tips and some examples to help you try to figure out how to shift your brain into a future focus. But this is one of the things I love about coaching. There is a time when it’s necessary to dive into the past. I’m not saying it’s wrong to. I think that usually the work that happens in a more traditional clinical setting like therapy is about exploring the past and that can be very healing and that can be very necessary.

But in coaching we like to spend more time in the future. We want to teach you how to create the future that you want and to encourage you to think about the future and to think about it intentionally. So sometimes we do talk about the past, actually a lot of times in coaching sessions. A client comes on the call and they tell me about something that happened that was challenging or an emotion that they’re feeling that doesn’t feel good or isn’t serving them, or again, even a goal.

And we’ll go to a past situation simply to gain awareness. Now, the awareness that we’re trying to gain is about your thinking habits and patterns. It’s just awareness of your brain. So in other words, I don’t need to know all the details of the past. In fact I don’t even let people spend a long time telling a past focus story. What I do is I get one specific detail and then we use that to take a look at their brain.

So for example if a client says to me, “I have a teenager who is really disrespectful, he just disrespects me.” Now, what they are tempted to do is to tell me a really long detailed story and give me a dozen examples of how disrespectful this child is. I can relate to this by the way, because not that I have a disrespectful child but that I have other situations in which I want to tell all the details. And often I’ve told the story a few times so I’ve gotten really good at telling it.

I know the right place to add some colorful adjectives and I know how to make the story sort of engaging and entertaining. And how to get the response I’m trying to solicit which is some validation or something like that. So a client will come on and say, “I have a really disrespectful teenager.” And in a coaching situation it’s very different, my job isn’t to just validate, it’s to help them get out of this challenge. So I will say, “Give me one example of something your teenager has said, or done, or not said, or not done that in your mind is disrespectful?”

So this is going to the past, it is. I have my client go to the past and give me an example. But the only reason we do it is because we gain awareness of the story in the client’s brain that is creating the real problem because all problems are thought problems, they are. So I want to uncover what the problem thought is. Now, they presented with a problem thought which is, my teenager’s really disrespectful and then there’s a thought in parenthesis which is and he shouldn’t be.

So that might be the thought that’s the problem. But it might be a slightly different version of that thought. And so by getting a specific example and then playing with what are you making that mean then we get some leverage over, okay, this is what your brain is doing. But because this is not therapy I don’t need to hear all the details. I’m not going to ask a whole bunch of questions about their teenager. And I don’t need tons of other examples. I only need one example because then what we do is we shift our focus to a future place.

So we do that by questioning, what kind of mother do I want to be in this situation? What kind of woman do I want to be? How do I want to think about my child? How do I want to feel about my child? How do I want to show up around my child? What do I want to do or not do? What do I want the result to be? We have to gain awareness of where you’re at in order to then know how to move to a future place and figure out where we’re going to go?

But I think that sometimes because the awareness piece takes a while it feels like to many people that we should just spend our time thinking about the past and observing ourselves in the past. And while that can be useful it holds us back when we then take those stories we have about the past and use them as limiting beliefs that prevent us from creating the future that we want. Sometimes people take these tools and they make them their identity and then they’ll just simply keep recreating that because your brain wants to be right about what you believe is true.

So if you believe you are a person who loses their patience easily, your brain takes note and will help to recreate that over and over again so that you can prove yourself not crazy. If you believe that you’re just not the kind of person who’s able to be successful in a certain area of your life your brain will try to recreate that, in the most bizarre ways we do this. So this is why we don’t need to spend a long time thinking about the past in coaching, we really don’t.

Again, if you have trauma from your past and you need to process that emotion, or heal from that, or what have you, I highly recommend some therapy or clinical counseling to help you do that. That’s important work. But for the majority of the topics that I see that my clients bring we don’t need to do that. A lot of times my clients have already been to a therapist if there’s something like that, or we’re talking about a situation that doesn’t require that level of awareness, we simply need to redirect our brains to the future.

So depending on when you’re listening to this podcast, the end of 2021 or the beginning of 2022 ish, and we have a whole new year laid out in front of us. And this is the time when many people are starting to set goals, and resolutions, and they’re thinking about what they want to do this year, what they want to accomplish, what they want to change in their life. And what’s tempting is for the brain to go to the past to decide where we’re at and what the problem is.

So for example, weight loss is a common one, it comes up at this time of year. So people will say, “I want to lose weight or I want to get into shape, I want to be healthier, I want develop a routine of exercising more”, what have you, something like that. And then they start telling me about the past. They start saying, “What I tend to do is I exercise for a little while, and I’m really gun-ho for a while and then I quit.” Or “What I tend to do is overeat in these particular situations.” Or “What I tend to do”, and they tell me about their past.

And I will often say, “Okay, who cares? Who cares what you’ve done in the past? What do you want to do in the future? Who do you want to be? Who are you going to be when you are the healthy person that has the healthy lifestyle that you want to have?” We don’t spend nearly enough time thinking about that. I don’t spend nearly enough time thinking about that anyway. My guess is most people don’t.

So for example, there are all kinds of Christmas cookies and treats on my counter right now because it’s middle of December when I’m recording this. So if I want to be healthier in some way, which I would like to consume less sugar than I do. I think that would serve me in a lot of ways. So instead of seeing the cookies and thinking, I just want one and noticing the urge, or the craving, and bringing along with me this story I have which is I have a really bad sweet tooth, I love dessert. I love dessert more than most of my kids do.

I don’t know why but oddly enough my kids don’t really, people bring over treats and they’re not the ones eating them, I’m the one eating them. So that’s my story about my past. What I need to do is stop thinking about that so much and instead think about the future. If I were this healthy version of me and there were cookies and treats on the counter that my neighbors brought by, because they probably still will, bless their hearts. What would I think when I see these treats? Who would I be?

Now, it’s challenging because going to the past is easy because we have a whole file cabinet full of data to pull from. I have visual images. I have smells and tastes. I have words and sounds. I have a whole database of memories, even though a lot of our memories are actually very inaccurate, but that’s another podcast for another day. I still have a whole database to pull from to think about the past. If I say to you, “Tell me about the future. Tell me about yourself in June of 2022.” It’s like handing us a blank piece of paper and saying, “Draw me a picture.” Most of us don’t like that.

I don’t even know, I can’t wrap my head around who I will be, what it will look like, what it might sound like, what it might feel like. What I do know is I’m not going to torture myself and I’m not going to be willing to suffer for too long. So what’s it going to be like to not suffer and not eat so much sugar? Who is that version of going to be? What will it feel like? What will I look like? What will be different for me? What will be different about our routines? What will be different about what I’m thinking and what I’m feeling about food, about myself, about my body, about all these things?

That’s more challenging to do but do you see why it’s more useful? When you can wrap your head around that future version of you, guess what happens? You just start becoming her. You don’t even have to figure out how or put tons of focus on it. You just naturally start heading in that direction. This is how human beings work. The things that we’re focused on and thinking about, we create in our lives without even realizing it sometimes.

This comes up a lot too when I am coaching entrepreneurs. So I have a business coaching program called Business Minded. I think we have a call coming up soon. We do group coaching calls and then I also have a small high end mastermind I’m working with. And it’s not uncommon on that call, whether it be with one of my mastermind people a little more intimately or in a bigger group for people to start telling me about the past.

So for example, maybe we’re trying to clarify their offer. And I’ll say, “Who is this for? Who’s your ideal customer here?” They’ll start telling me about people that they’ve worked with. They’ll tell me about customers who have bought from them or clients, depending on their business, the people that come to them in the past. And I’ll say, “Who cares? Who do we want to come to you in the future? Who are we creating your future business for?” Sometimes they’ll tell me about their clients, this is common when somebody gets ready to scale or change their business.

They’ll say, “Well, I have these clients that aren’t going to like it if I make this change. Or I have these customers that are going to be disappointed if I stop offering this thing, or this product, or what have you, if I change it up.” And I say, “Okay, but we could live in the past or we can live in the future. You can’t build a future business for your past people. Some of them will come with you, great. Some of them it won’t be for them anymore.”

I mean this is honestly so glaringly obvious in business because it happens not only with your clients and customers, some of your people that were the right fit for you, the right customers for you when you were first starting out aren’t going to be your customer later on. They don’t want what it is that you offer down the road. But this is true even within the business. Some of the strategies, or tools, or contractors, or things like that that I used in the beginning of my business that were great and served me really well, aren’t the right approach now that my business is at a different level.

So if I think about the past it’s fine but I’m not going to grow and evolve my business. I have to be thinking about the future. I have to be thinking about where do we want to be in a year? Where do we want to be in five years and 10 years? And ideally we’re trying to build to head us towards that future instead of dragging the past along with us.

So you see why this is challenging to do, right? It’s super challenging for me, I’ll just say. I have not mastered this by any means. I think what I’ve gained, what I have gotten pretty good at is noticing it. I’m really good at noticing it in other people, like when I’m coaching my clients I’m constantly like, “Who cares about what happened last year? Let’s talk about what’s going to happen this year.” I’m getting better at noticing it in myself. I hope to keep progressing in this area and to get good at dreaming about the future.

I think for me, and I don’t know if this is true for everybody, I’m sure we’re all different. But I think for me what holds me back is I sort of tend to judge myself. If I ask myself in my business for example, who do I want to be, or even with my physical health, do I want to be that person that you see every day going on a walk, or jog, or on the neighborhood, or that woman that has really sculpted arms? Or the person that says, “No, thank you”, when they offer dessert at a function. Who do I want to be? Do I want to be the person that works out every day no matter what?

Do I want to be the person that doesn’t drink soda or things that just kind of don’t feel good in my body and I just drink water? I don’t even know exactly who I want to be. But if I am her, what does she do in this situation is a really tough question for me to answer. My brain, it just wants to go, “I don’t know.” It feels like so much work. I just can’t even imagine what it would be like.

And even in my business, like I said, I tend to judge myself, so I might ask myself, well, what do we want this business to be in five years? What do we want it to look like? Who do we want to be serving? What role do I want to play in this business? What impact do we want to make in the world? What do we want to be known for? And first of all I tend to want to say, “I don’t know”, because I have a really hard time thinking that far out. But second of all, anything that does come up I immediately want to shut down and judge myself for.

I want to be like, who do you think you are? You could never do that. You’re not that smart, or you’re not capable of that, or you’ll never be there. You’re too much of a mess. You’re just not wired that way. You’re not that kind of person. So any, even little dream that I have that comes up I notice my brain try to shut down with judgment. I don’t know why we do this. I don’t know if it feels protective like let’s not get our hopes up or something. Or if it is just coming from that part of us that questions ourselves and our value.

But it really does block my ability to dream big about the future, my judgment of my desires and dreams. I had somebody ask me because I did a podcast a few weeks ago about meeting your own needs. And one of the steps I gave was you have to figure out what your needs are. And somebody sent me a question which by the way you can always DM me questions on Instagram. I try to answer as many of those as I can or I’ll at least find themes to speak to on a podcast.

Somebody said to me, “How do you know what you want, what you desire, or what you need, what your interests are?” And it’s an interesting question because it seems like it will be obvious but it’s not. And what I told this person and what I do believe is that because we judge our desires at some point, when we’re little kids we don’t do this, we just are like, “I want this.” But as we get older many of us start judging our desires and interests. We start shutting them down saying, “No, we can’t have that”, for some reason or we shouldn’t want that.

Or we just get so busy taking care of everyone else or doing whatever it is we’re doing in our lives that we just start ignoring that part of us. And so we lose the connection with ourselves in that way. We lose the connection with those desires. And so what we have to do is just start listening again. We just have to pay attention to the even little whisper of a desire, sometimes for me it’s just a curiosity, and don’t shut it down. Don’t judge it. Don’t also think that it means that you have to go make some big life change right now. You don’t.

Just let the desire and the interest come alive, hear it out, give it space. And if you do that I find that it does start coming back and you reestablish a connection with that part of yourself. And that’s a great way to become more future focused. Who do I want to be? What do I want to create? What might it look like? I’m not talking about planning. And planning is great and all, for all my planners out there, you can plan. But I’m not talking about you figuring out exactly where you want to go and how you think you’re going to get there.

I’m just talking about dreaming. I’m talking about having a nurturing relationship with your vision or dream of the future and spending as much time being curious about that and allowing space for it to come to life as you do thinking about the past. At least spend as much time thinking about the future. Ideally we would spend even more but let’s at least balance it out 50/50, if you’re like me it’s totally out of balance.

So as we move into a new year you can approach this any way you want to. A lot of people like to choose a word, a word like focus, or nurture, or simplify, or inspiration, or whatever. Some people like to choose a word, great, if that works for you, choose a word. And then think about how am I going to invite that into every area of my life?

For me I like to picture that little girl within me that has dreams and desires. And I just like to give her some airtime. So for me the best way to do that is journaling, letting myself just write and kind of let my brain wander as I write, not judging it, not thinking it has to be on any topic.

One of my favorite journal prompts is what do I really, really, really want? And just write about that on occasion. Sometimes I can do it when I’m going for a walk and I shut off the audiobooks, the podcasts. Sometimes I can have music on and I can still think to myself. But sometimes just silence is the best way. It can happen through prayer or meditation of some sort. But it’s sort of like you have to quiet all the noise in order to hear the little quiet little voice within you especially if you’ve been ignoring it for a long time.

But everything you desire is a part of, I think, the path to your most amazing life and the best contribution you can make while you’re alive. So there’s never anything wrong with what you desire, we just want to give them airtime. Some of them you might choose to pursue and some you might not. Some you’ll just kind of let live there but you’ll never actually take action towards them, that’s okay. I like to think of it as there’s a huge room full of dreams, and desires, and interests.

And some of them I will pursue and some I never will but I still don’t want to shut the door on that room no matter what. Because within that room is first of all the ability to achieve any of them that I choose to go for, and second of all, something really interesting to learn about myself. So my friends, I hope that you will join me in choosing to have a future focus this year. Let’s focus less on the past and more on the future that we want to create. And again you can find me at Jody Moore Coaching on Instagram, if you have questions about this.

Come and join me for Train Your Brain, I will teach you how to do it and I can’t wait. I’ll see you there. Thanks for coming.

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If you’re listening to this podcast when it airs, you’re likely putting the finishing touches on your Christmas. However, there is a brand-new year right around the corner, and so you’re probably starting to think about your intentions and your focus for 2022.

Whatever habits you’re trying to implement or goals you’re working towards, you’ve probably had them in mind for a while. And when you’re in that place of thinking about your goals, you can start to feel like you’re not getting anywhere with them. Maybe you feel stuck, like all the passion you have for the goal is gone. Well, this week, I’m giving you four ways to get unstuck and get moving.

Tune in this week to discover how to get unstuck and achieve anything in 2022. I’m sharing the secrets to creating commitment, motivation, and self-discipline in a way that will allow you to create anything you want in 2022 and have an amazing time doing it.

It’s that time of year again where we offer 12-month access to Be Bold. This is the perfect clutter-free gift for either yourself or a loved one, and it even comes with a free copy of my book! So if you know someone that could benefit from more confidence, inspiration, and positive thoughts, click here to give it to them!

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * How to see the areas of your life where you’re feeling stuck right now. * Why self-discipline is the key to success and how I like to think about generating self-discipline in any moment. * How to question yourself to discover where your motivation and excitement is going to come from in 2022. * Why motivation alone generally isn’t the thing that gets you started in achieving your goals. * Where confidence comes from and how I like to create it for myself. * How to commit to what you want to create in 2022.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 336: Get Unstuck.

Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me, I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hello, everybody. One of the things that is challenging for me about recording podcasts is that I’m talking to you from the past. And so sometimes I’m really good about looking at the calendar and going, “Now, what date is this going to air? What’s going to be going on that day for people?” Other times I don’t, I just get on and record. But this episode is your Christmas Eve episode.

So if you’re listening to it the day it comes out of course you’re in the thick of thinking about and putting the finishing touches on Christmas. And I hope that you’re relaxing and spending time with family and all of that. But just around the corner is going to be the New Year as well. And your focus is going to shift into goals like it does for most people into what you want to do this year, what you want to set your intentions on, what you want to focus on.

And so I wanted to put this podcast episode out because some of you won’t listen to it the day it comes out, you’ll listen to it a little later, that’s alright. But also, I wanted to let you know that if 2022 is your year to work with me, to get coached by me, to watch yourself transform and I only say that because I get messages on the regular from people in that program that tell me how their lives have transformed. And I really do feel confident that it is a transformative experience.

Be Bold is going to go up a little bit in price. It’s been $49 a month, are we going on five years now? It’s worth way more than that. We’re just going to raise it to 59, it’s not a huge jump but I feel the price doesn’t fairly represent what you get in there. And so we’re raising the price a little bit. So I’m telling you that right now because you still have one more week to get in at the $49 rate. And as long as you stay in the program you will keep that rate. It will only go up for new people joining.

So the doors are opening. They’ll be open all next week in between Christmas and New Year. And in fact, we’ll open them up today, Christmas Eve. So now is your chance. If you want to get in under the monthly pay as you go it’s $59 a month. The annual price will go up just a little bit as well. You’ll still save money if you purchase for the whole year instead of monthly. But do whatever fits in your budget. You can learn more about that at jodymoore.com/membership. And I will say it is a cancel any time program and we make it really easy to cancel but you won’t want to, I’m confident.

So anyway, that’s just a little bit of housekeeping information for you. Today we’re going to talk about getting unstuck. And what I want you to do if you’re listening to this around Christmas, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day or in between Christmas and New Year, don’t worry about taking tons of action this week. Just relax but I want you to start thinking about what’s going to happen next week. And I want to get your head in a useful place. And there are four things that I’m going to teach you that I recommend that will help you to get moving.

So when I say get unstuck, obviously that can apply in so many different ways. The way I’m thinking about it, the way I’ve structured today’s episode is those habits that you’re trying to implement or goals that you’re working towards, or even it could be a project you’re trying to accomplish that you maybe were excited about but then you sort of gave up. Maybe you got started even and then you lost momentum, it was harder than you thought it was going to be. Or the newness wore off and then suddenly you didn’t have the motivation to keep going.

Or maybe you haven’t even started yet, maybe you’ve just been thinking about it and talking about it and so it feels like it’s been something you’ve been ‘working on’. But you haven’t actually done anything but you’ve been intending to. And so in your mind it feels like you have.

I always tell the story about when I first talked to Brad Jensen who is my coach who helped me lose weight. And he said, “Have you tried losing weight in the last few years?” And I was like, “Yeah.” And he’s like, “Okay, great, what have you done?” And then I realized, wait, you mean have I actually done anything? No, I guess not. In my mind I’m trying to lose weight all the time. So it might be that kind of a project. But at any rate, like I said, I have four tools I want to teach you today so let’s dive right in.

The first one is I want to talk about self-discipline. So when I was in middle school, we had a motivational speaker come to our school, I love motivational speakers by the way, I always have, even in middle school. I was like, “Yes, we get to hear from a motivational speaker.” He was really good. I remember him being really dynamic, really engaging. I remember feeling really fired up after he spoke to us but I can’t remember anything he said other than this one little nugget which means he did his job, by the way.

A speaker should leave you with one nugget that you remember. But at any rate, the one nugget was self-discipline is the key to success. And he said it over and over again and he talked about it. And he even gave each of us a little yellow rubber keychain that was shaped like a giant key that said, self-discipline is the key to success. And I remember thinking yes, that makes so much sense.

If I’m an athlete and I want to be successful at my sport then I need to be self-disciplined enough to go work out and to practice, and to eat right, and to just get myself in better shape and get better at my sport. I’m going to need self-discipline to do that. And that’s the key to success. If I want to be successful at school, or in a job, or in any other way really, self-discipline is the key to success. This is brilliant. I loved this message. Now, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve started to ask myself, okay, so what is self-discipline then? Where do we get it? How do we get more of it?

Why is that some people seem to have a lot of it and others of us have less? And if we want to increase it, how do we do that? And I don’t know the answer to that but I’ll tell you what I think and I’ll tell you the way I think about it now that helps me to generate more self-discipline. I like to define self-discipline as just allowing your future self to win more of the time, more than it is now. Here’s what I mean. We have our current self, our present self, and then we have our future self.

And our present self wants what is pleasurable right now in this moment. That’s the only thing our present self can really care about because that’s the only thing our present self, experiences is what’s happening right now. But we are also aware that we have this future self, future me which is sort of looking back on present me going, “Please, make some decisions that will serve me.” Even though they might mean that current you has to sacrifice in some way. So a lack of self-discipline is just letting my present or current self, win more of the time, too much of the time.

When I let my future self, win if there is a conflict which there’s not always, thank goodness. But if there’s a conflict I have to more often choose my future self. I have to sacrifice my present self in the name of my future self. Do you get what I’m saying? I love thinking about it this way because it doesn’t feel like such a struggle anymore, it doesn’t feel like I’m short on willpower.

It feels like either way I’m going to win because either my present self is going to win or my future self is going to win. And either way I’m going to have to make a sacrifice, either my present self is going to sacrifice or my future self is going to make a sacrifice. So it helps me realize, I’m not avoiding discomfort, avoiding something hard, avoiding pain, avoiding something new. I’m just either choosing it now, choose the discomfort and the pain now or choosing it later. And I’m either choosing pleasure, joy, ease, comfort now or I’m choosing it for later.

We’re going to get some of both. So if I want to get unstuck then I need to ask myself some questions like, what is it that my future self wants or needs? I want you to pause and ask yourself that question. Pick one area of your life where you feel stuck. Maybe it’s that you can’t get yourself to finish the laundry. You just have a pile of laundry and you can’t get yourself to stop and put it away. So what does your future self, want or need?

He or she wants or needs to walk into the room and have it be tidy and clean and have the clothes put away where they’re supposed to be so that she can find them and so can everyone else.

Number two question I want you to ask yourself is what will I need to be willing to give up? What will I be willing to sacrifice or to do in order to allow my future self to win? Well, in the laundry situation I will need to give up something that’s easier right now and more pleasurable which is not putting away the laundry. Whatever I might do instead. I might need to be willing to sacrifice a little bit of discomfort, a little bit of something that doesn’t sound fun. I have to choose to do something I don’t really want to do because my future self will be so grateful that the clothes will be put away.

And so the third question and this is an important question, am I willing to do that or not? People tell me all the time, “How do I get myself moving? I just can’t get myself to do it.” And sometimes what I say is, “Well, are you willing to do what’s necessary in the name of your future self?” It’s okay if the answer is no. It’s okay if the answer’s no. If the answer is no that takes us into the second thing I want to teach you today, now that we’ve talked about self-discipline.

The second thing is I want to talk about motivation. And I want to talk about commitment. And I want to talk about confidence. So again, a common question, “Jody, how do I get motivated?” Here’s what I tell people, “Motivation is not going to be there to get you started.” In most cases it doesn’t get you started. Motivation comes along after you’ve already started and it helps you in many cases to keep going or to finish but it’s often not going to get you started. Now, I say often because sometimes motivation gets you started and then it actually drops off.

But I like to remind myself and it doesn’t matter what happened in the past, maybe you were motivated and now you’re not, or what have you. This area where you’re stuck, you wouldn’t be stuck if you had motivation. So instead of waiting around for motivation let’s just decide that we’re going to get started without motivation. But the odds of motivation showing up to the party go up significantly once I get moving, once I get started. If I dive in to that laundry, I just decide, I don’t need to be motivated, I’m going to do it anyway, I’m going to access self-discipline instead.

And I’m going to start folding laundry, what happens halfway through the laundry? Now we’re on a roll, momentum or motivation comes along and we suddenly are on fire and it takes less time than we thought it would. It’s not even as painful as we thought it would be. And before you know it, we’re done. And if somebody tries to interrupt us and pull us off task we’re like, “Not now, I’m folding laundry. I’m putting laundry away.” Have you had this experience?

So the key to getting unstuck is to decide that you don’t have to feel motivated. You’re just going to get going anyway. Now, I’ll tell you, there are a couple of instances where I’ve noticed where motivation is there at the very beginning and maybe there’s more. But these are the two I’ve noticed most frequently, one of them is an opportunity like a new year.

Sometimes, and this is what I love about the new year, about January 1, is for some reason it gives our brains permission to go, “You know what? Let’s start fresh. Let’s get moving. It’s a new year, let’s see what we’re capable of.” So sometimes motivation will happen for you right at the beginning if it’s something like a new year. Another time I see motivation help us get started is if it’s a new project, or a new goal, or we have a new method or something we’re excited about.

The motivation might be there in the beginning, you might think I’m excited to try this, I think this is going to work. And now you feel motivated as you get started. But again, that motivation if it’s there in the beginning, may not be there all the way through. So don’t count on motivation because it’s kind of finnicky, have you noticed? It shows up sometimes and then it doesn’t show up other times. So it’s great if it’s there, it’s fun if it’s there but we’re not going to count on it, we’re just going to do it anyway even though we’re not motivated.

This example just came to my mind as I was talking about that. I saw on Hank Smith’s Instagram account, a shout out to Hank Smith. He posted something about a shout out to all of his students at BYU who are struggling with depression and anxiety and they still get up and come to an early morning class at school. And that really impacted me because I can remember as a college student not wanting to go to class, especially in the winter in Utah, early morning. And I didn’t struggle with depression or anxiety.

So I can only imagine how hard it would be to get yourself to go to class when you’re struggling with something like that. So I thought that was really cool of him to mention and recognize that. And it sort of helped me with some of my goals that I find myself going, “I just don’t want to. I just don’t feel like it.” I was like, yeah, but if those students who don’t feel like it and they’re battling something like that, they can get up and do it. They can make themselves do it without wanting to, I can certainly make myself do this without wanting to. So don’t wait for motivation, that’s number two.

Number three, which I alluded to a little bit earlier is I want to talk about being interested, being committed, and being confident. There’s a difference. So I want to start by talking about confidence. People ask me all the time, how do I get more confident about this thing? I’m trying to build this business or I’m trying to get myself to exercise, or I’m trying to get the house cleaned up or be a better mother or stop yelling at my kids. But I’m just not confident. How do I be confident?

And I want to say that confidence is something, it’s an emotion so you can generate it with a thought. But I find that for the most part those thoughts are not believable to me until I earn it. I like to think of confidence as something that I earn. And I earn it by being not good at it and just doing it anyway over, and over, and over again. And eventually because I’m a human being and because I have a human brain that makes adjustments accordingly the more I do it the better I get at it, the easier it is for me to think thoughts that generate confidence.

So confidence is a fun feeling, of course it’s useful but it’s just something that I’m going to earn by doing things over and over again and then believing I’m good at this. I’m not going to try to just generate confidence with a thought. I’m going to just use self-discipline and I’m going to not wait around for motivation. And then I’m going to decide am I interested in this thing or am I committed? And there is a big difference between being interested and being committed. And most people don’t recognize that there’s a difference.

Most people say to me, “This is really important to me, Jody. I really want to do this thing. I really want to accomplish this, or learn this, or master this, or contribute in this way.” And I say, “Okay, great, tell me what you’ve done so far.” And it’s not uncommon, and when I say people I put myself in the same category. It’s not uncommon for us to realize we’ve done a little bit maybe but not really much. And when I recognize that in myself then I pause and I go, “Okay, Jody, here’s the truth. The truth is you’re interested in doing that thing but you’re not committed.” And that’s okay.

I’m not saying that you should be committed. I don’t want you to beat yourself up and feel bad that you’re not committed. I don’t do that. I just go, “That’s just the truth.” Otherwise, we’re left just so confused about what’s going on, and why we’re not taking action, and why we’re not following through. The reason is because I’m not committed, I’m just interested in it. Okay, now I get it. You know what? Sometimes just being interested is enough.

But if you find that you’re just interested, I just give you permission to stop thinking about how you should have done it. To stop beating yourself up for what you haven’t done in the past or to stop being so confused about it. Just decide, okay, I’m just interested in it but I’m not committed right now. Maybe one day I will be but I’m not right now. That’s one option. Now, the second option is to decide, alright, I’m done just being interested. I’m ready to get committed. How are you going to commit?

Commitment comes from one sentence, you guys. Do you know what that sentence is? No matter what. That’s it, no matter what, that’s commitment. Now, when I say no matter what, of course there are occasional exceptions, there are emergencies. But I’m talking for the most part, unless there’s a huge emergency, in which case I’m going to figure out a backup plan then I follow through on this thing.

My favorite way to think about commitment is I start by thinking about something that’s really easy for me to be committed to like picking my kids up. If I tell my kids, “I’m going to pick you up”, or if I tell my husband, “I’m going to pick the little kids up today, you don’t have to worry about it.” Then I’m really committed to that. I’m going to go pick them up no matter what. I’m not going to decide, I don’t feel like it. You know what? This project went longer than I thought it would. It’s kind of cold outside, I don’t want to walk to the bus stop.

None of that, I’m going to pick them up no matter what. The only exception would be some kind of crazy unanticipated emergency which wouldn’t happen very often but if it did, I would figure out a backup plan and make sure those kids get taken care of because I’m committed to getting my kids and taking care of them. So now think about your project, or goal, or whatever is that you’re feeling stuck on. If you just told yourself, “I follow through on this thing no matter what.” That’s commitment.

Now, don’t think that you have to commit to any more than you can handle, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m not talking about you hustling, if that’s not what you want to do. I’m talking about commit to what is reasonable and realistic and just know that when it comes time to do it, here’s the other thing. We talked earlier about your present self and your future self. But we have a past self too. So if you think okay, on Friday, I’m going to go to this class at the gym, or I’m going to make this phone call, or I’m going to sit down and figure out my website or whatever it is.

I’m going to do that on Friday, today’s Wednesday, then this is past me thinking about future – well, it’s present me but by Friday that will have been past me. It’s really easy for present me to make commitments for future me. But when I get there, I will then become present me. Do you follow? So I don’t want present you to look back at past you and be mad and go, “What did you do to me? Why did you give me so much? I can’t do all that. I don’t want to do all that, it’s too much. I don’t have the time. I don’t have the energy. I don’t have the bandwidth.”

Be really, really kind to your future self, make really reasonable commitments. But commitment by definition means I just do it even if I don’t want to. I show up and I do it. So tell yourself the truth, either you’re just interested and that’s okay. And we’re going to stop fighting with ourselves about it. Or we’re going to get committed. And we’re not going to wait for confidence. We’re going to know that we’re going to be terrible at it at first and we’re going to do it wrong. We’re going to mess it up. But we will get better at it as we go.

Okay, the fourth and final thing I want to teach you to day that will help you to get unstuck, and this one might be the most crucial. People who are progressing in any area are the boss of their brains. I really do believe this. Now, some people are consciously choosing to be the boss of their brains, that’s one of the things that I teach people to do as a coach. Other people don’t realize that they’re the boss of their brains but they are or else they would not be moving forward.

And I’m talking about people that are doing extraordinary things, people that are doing challenging things, people that are doing new things that they haven’t done before. They are choosing to be the boss of their brains, I promise you. You have to be the boss of your brain. Do not let your brain be the boss of you.

So many people are walking around letting their unconscious, unexamined, unquestioned brains be the boss of their life. This is why people are filled with fear, and worry, and anxiety. This is why people just go through the motions and never grow in the way that they’re capable of. They don’t realize their potential. They don’t get outside their comfort zones, or they stay stuck in a victim place or just feel overwhelmed. And I don’t say this with judgment, most people don’t realize it. They don’t realize that their unconscious primitive brain is the boss of them.

And what I want to teach you and what I’m going to be teaching you starting in January in Be Bold is how to be the boss of your brain. Not only will it get you unstuck and moving, but it will also help you to feel so much better, to feel empowered, and alive, and motivated. I talked about motivation, I talked about confidence, things like that come along when you choose to be the boss of your brain. Now, it doesn’t mean you’re going to feel that way all the time. We’re still going to use the other tools I gave you.

We’re not going to wait for motivation. We’re going to get started. But meanwhile as we take that action, I want you to be the boss of your brain. In other words, you’re going to tell your brain what you think instead of letting your brain tell you. You’re going to learn how to do that in Be Bold. I’m going to teach you in our January workshop and then we’re all going to practice it together all month long. And you can apply this to any area of your life that you want to. Like I said, of course it will apply to getting you unstuck.

But maybe it’s a relationship issue, maybe it’s a parenting issue, maybe it’s a challenge you’re having with your kids, maybe it’s in your marriage, maybe it’s just the way you think about yourself. I so badly want to empower you to be the boss of your brain because when I learned how to do that, that’s when my life exploded. That’s when my family became so much more fun, being a mom got so much easier for me. I was able to create this amazing thriving business. I was able to write a book all because I learned how to be the boss of my brain.

This doesn’t mean that there wasn’t tons of negative emotion along the way, there was, and there still is, and there always will be. But overall, I’m in charge of me. I’m in charge of how I feel. I’m in charge of what I think. And I’ve practiced it so many times that it feels much easier to me now. It’s much more natural for me to do. It doesn’t mean I still don’t have that primitive part of my brain that tells me that I’m worthless and this will never work, and this is scary, and everybody hates you, and what’s the matter with you. I have all of that.

But that isn’t in charge, that’s not the part of me driving the show. Part of me driving the show is me thinking about myself and my life the way that I want to. And you’ve got to think about your goals the way that you want to. I want to give you just one other tiny example of this before I let you go today.

I was talking to one of my clients, I think this is who this conversation was with, anyway I have clients who are in a mastermind business coaching program with me. It’s a small group of us. We’re working together for a full year. We’re really taking a deep dive on everybody’s business and we’re having so much fun. I love that group so much. But anyway, somebody was talking about the Facebook algorithm, or the Instagram algorithm, which is the same thing, the same company.

And how they just hate the algorithm because it feels like nothing’s authentic so why should I bother because it’s just an algorithm trying to figure it out. And I was like, “That’s a nice default thought.” It’s a thought that we hear people say all the time so we picked it up somewhere. And then we’re like, “Yeah, I think that’s true, there’s just an algorithm deciding who’s going to see my post so why should I bother posting? And I’ll never be able to figure that out and it’s so frustrating.”

And I was like, “No, no, no, this is how you be the boss of your brain, you stop and examine and you notice that’s just a thought.” And then I said to her, “I love the algorithm so much. We love the algorithm. Because the algorithm means that the people who see our content on social media are the people that want to see it, the people that are our target audience, the people that are our people, will benefit from it, that will get some joy out of it, that will like it, that will share it, that will comment on it, that will get the help that we’re trying to provide by posting on social media.”

We don’t want just any random person coming along seeing it. We want our people to see it and that’s what the algorithm does is it says, “Let me try to find your people, let me sift out the ones that are not your people.” The algorithm’s a beautiful, amazing thing that I love. Okay, now, when I explained this, she was like, “Oh yeah, you’re right. That’s such a great way to think about it. I love that so much better than being mad about it.” That’s called being the boss of your brain.

Now, again there are many, many steps involved that I’m going to teach you, once you practice them then it will feel innate. It will feel much easier, you won’t have to worry about the steps. But we’re going to break it down in Be Bold step by step so that you learn how to be the boss of your brain and then you can use it all year long, well, for the rest of your life, you’re welcome.

Alright, so if you want to join me go to jodymoore.com/membership and get in there. We’re going to have a good time. I hope that you have the most amazing Christmas and New Year. And I just love you so much. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you tuning in and listening, and sharing my work like you do, it means the world to me. and I do not take it lightly at all. So have a great week and I’ll see you next time. Bye bye.

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I believe that the power of feeling good is highly underestimated by most people. Sure, we all want to feel good, and we even try to seek it out. But I don’t think we understand the magnitude of the impact that feeling good has on our lives, not only for us, but because of the influence we have in other people’s lives, the more we feel good, the more we can have a positive impact.

Of course, there are ways to feel good that don’t align with our values, like maybe powerful drugs, alcohol, gossip, or other false pleasures. So in this episode, I’m offering to you that your most important priorities should be, number one: living into your highest, best self. And number two: feeling good as often as you can.

Tune in this week to discover the true power of positive emotion in your life. I’m sharing where I see people really struggling to feel good, choosing the drama when it’s not actually mandatory. Instead, I’m showing you the profound effect that feeling good will have on your life, and how to make it part of your everyday.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * How our lives improve exponentially when we feel good. * Where I see people living into their highest self, but sacrificing the part where they feel good. * How we worry and freak out mostly over things we don’t actually have control over. * Why this work isn’t about being perfect at feeling happy 100% of the time. * How to harness the power of feeling good in your own life and experience the benefits.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 335: Good Feeling Power.

Hello gang, what’s happening? I have a little bit of a rant I want to go on today. I have just some thoughts and really strong feelings about this topic, and so I’m going to just let myself kind of speak to it and hopefully it will make sense.

But before we get into that, I want to make sure that you have purchased a Be Bold annual pass for yourself and/or your favorite person for Christmas, because after Christmas that option goes away. You will get a year-long membership to Be Bold for whoever you buy this gift for. So you’re basically giving them the gift of confidence, less worry and overwhelm, being able to achieve their goals, being inspired, and motivated, and excited about their life again.

That’s the gift we’re giving when we give Be Bold. And we do it through all kinds of workshops, monthly workshops, live Zoom calls where they can come and get coached or get help. They can learn about various topics, tons of bonus content. A place to write in to get help. A private podcast feed where we replay everything for people that don’t want to come live, which is most people, to be honest, all kinds of stuff. And they’ll also get a free copy of my new book, Better Than Happy, with the annual pass.

So it’s a pretty awesome Christmas gift, I must say. And you can get it at jodymoore.com/gift.

Today I want to talk about good feeling power. I want to talk to you about the power that positive emotions have in our lives. And I’m hoping, I’ll just be totally upfront, I’m hoping to sell you on the importance of feeling good. I think that most people highly underestimate how powerful feeling good is. I think we all kind of want to feel good. I think we try to seek it out. But I don’t think we understand the magnitude of the impact that feeling good has on our lives, not only for us, but for anybody else we come into contact with.

The way that we have influence in other people’s lives means that the more we feel good, the more we impact others for good. So I want to offer to you that one of your most important priorities should be two things. Living into your higher self, being your highest best self as much of the time as you can and feeling good as much of the time as you can.

The reason there’s two things is because I was thinking about just trying to sell you on feeling good. But then I was realizing there’s a lot of ways we can feel good in the short term that maybe don’t align with the values that we have. So for example, we could all just take powerful drugs every day and feel good. And some people do that and they feel a lot better anyway when they’re on those drugs. We could just keep drugs in an IV circulating throughout our bodies and mask what’s really going on and live under this false feeling of feeling good.

And that’s not what I’m talking about. I don’t mean feel good at the expense of your overall lifestyle, and health, and value system, and being who you want to be. So that’s why I added the second part. You want to live into being your highest best self as much of the time as you can, which by the way, you don’t have to be perfect at any of these things. I don’t mean you have to be perfect at feeling good all the time. You don’t have to be perfect at being your highest self but those two things are the goal.

So I’m going to talk to you about different situations, but first let me tell you why this is so powerful. Because so many people I see are either feeling good at the expense of their highest self, like I just gave you an extreme example with drugs, but it doesn’t have to be drugs, it can be all kinds of things. It can be just not showing up for our goals in our life the way we want to.

Or we get a little hit of dopamine when we gossip about one another. We feel connected to someone, we feel good for a minute when we share a piece of gossip. But that’s also for most of us not really who we want to be. So feeling good as your highest self, when you do that your life becomes exponentially more amazing than you could possibly imagine. So, many people, like I said, are either feeling good at the expense of their highest self, or they’re trying to be their highest self, they think they’re living into being their highest self, but they’re sacrificing the part where they feel good.

Let me give an example, I coach a lot of parents. So I have a lot of times let’s just say a mother who is trying to be a good mother, and she’s trying to guide her kids towards what she thinks will serve them best. But those kids, darn them, still have agency and make their own choices. And so in the name of trying to be her highest best self, a lot of the times, it’s not uncommon for me to coach a mom that is really worried, or anxious, or upset with their child for the choices that their child is making.

So notice how we believe we’re living into our highest selves, it’s questionable whether or not we really are in that situation, but we’re trying to anyway. But we’re sacrificing our own feelings along the way. We’re feeling worried, anxious, judgmental, what have you. So the goal is to live into our highest self and feel good. That is your most important priority, my friend.

How do you do that, Jody? How do I guide my child? Let’s say my child is sleeping with her boyfriend, or on drugs, or has left the church, or whatever other number of things I coach on all the time. How do I be the kind of mom I want to be and not worry about my child? Now again, you don’t have to be perfect at this. I’m just being really upfront that I have not figured out how to be perfect at it, but it is available to you for a good percentage of the time.

Here’s how, you notice that the worry, and anxiety, and stress is optional. I promise you. I was just coaching an entrepreneur today in her business who was like, “I’m starting this new program, and it’s just so overwhelming, and it’s so hard, I forgot how hard it is, there’s so much drama.” And I was like, “Did you know that part’s optional, the drama?” It’s not like first you get a business license, and you find an accountant, and then you experience drama. No, the drama part is optional. You could just leave that behind, it’s not necessary.

Just like worrying, and being freaked out, and anxious about what our kids are going through is optional. Just like judging other people and feeling self-righteous, or we know what’s better, or whatever other kind of judgmental type negative emotions we’re bringing on. That part’s optional, it’s not required. It’s not even required in order for you to do the first part of this, which is live into your highest best self. It doesn’t make you a better mother because you’re worried about your kids.

I used to think this, I remember when I decided you know what I’m going to do? Is I’m just going to, as much as possible choose not to worry. I remember thinking, am I doing something wrong here? Am I not being a good mother? Am I just being naive and delusional? Am I just burying my head in the sand and not paying attention because it seems like maybe I should be worrying about this, maybe I should be anxious, maybe I should be nervous.

So I’ve examined all of that, and I would encourage you to do the same. You get to decide what you want to believe. This is just what I believe. But I have found zero upside to worrying. I have found that it does not make me a better mother. It does not help me find more creative ways to teach, and support, and guide my children. It does not help me be more consistent at holding them accountable to what I expect. It does not make me better at loving them. It does not give me a feeling of faith and connection with God. It does the opposite of all of those things.

Being the best mother I can be happens when I’m feeling peaceful, and calm, and confident, and loving, and open, and curious with my children, no matter what they’re doing, or not doing. So I coached someone this week who said, “Well, my daughter has left the church. And she has a baby and lives with the baby, and the baby’s father, and they’re not married. And I’m just worried about this.” And I said, “Okay, but you realize that part’s optional, right?”

So after a lot of coaching, which I won’t go into all the details of. But where her brain keeps going is, if we follow the prophet, there’s safety in that. And what I pointed out to her is that the advice to follow the prophet is advice given to each of us that’s meant for us to apply to ourselves individually. It’s not meant for us to try to control our children. Now, I’m all for you teaching your children. I said, “Have you taught your daughter what you believe is the best way for her to live? And what you believe about following the prophet, and what the prophet teaches about this subject?”

Of course she has. She’s done her job. The next part where we worry and freak out is us not following the prophet. Because I’m pretty sure the prophet, I’ve never heard any of the prophets anyway ever say, “Make sure you panic, and get anxious, and really upset, and stay up late worrying about your child.” I’ve only heard them say, “Love them unconditionally. Have faith.”

The atonement of Jesus Christ covers everything. Fear not. Draw close to the Lord. Love those children. Be an example of Christ like love. Show them why there’s no need to fear. If you have a true testimony of the eternal nature of God’s plan, there is nothing to fear. The atonement covers everything, it’s a safety net.

So again, I’m not saying you have to be perfect at this. I’m just saying the worry, the anxiety, the negative emotions, not useful, not necessary. When we clean all of that up, we operate at our very best. We operate the most like our heavenly parents and like our savior. When we choose love instead of fear we find the most amazing creative resources and ideas. We attract the right people into our lives to help us with whatever we’re working on. That’s when the miracles happen. Faith proceeds the miracle, not anxiety and fear proceed the miracle, no, faith proceeds the miracle.

So listen, we live in a world where people are offering us thoughts to think, and stories, and ideas all the time, all the time. Everywhere we’re being bombarded with everybody’s opinions. I love our world. I’m not trying to demonize it, I’m just saying people are offering you things to think. What are you going to take? Just because someone offers it to you doesn’t mean you have to take it.

So again, you don’t have to be perfect at this. I still have to wrestle with it at times. Sometimes I get a story or a thought in my brain about some future thing that I’m worried about, maybe it’s about my kids, maybe it’s just about the world in general, maybe it’s about our country, maybe it’s about the pandemic, you name it. I can definitely find things and people everywhere are trying to offer me things to worry about. And my brain tries to entertain them at times.

But here’s what I know. Feeling good as I’m living into my highest self is my most important priority. It makes me a better mother, a better wife, a better coach. It makes my life better. It makes me serve I a more effective way the people that I want to serve. It makes me more generous, more able to contribute. It is my most important job, and it’s my job. It’s nobody else’s job.

So when I get offered a story, or my brain comes up with a story, or finds a story about something that it wants to worry about, I just be fascinated by it for a moment, a moment might be a day or so. And then I notice how I’m feeling when I think about that story. And I genuinely believe that if I feel negative when I think that story, then it’s not true. That’s just what I choose to believe. I’m not telling you, you have to believe that. It’s just what I choose to believe.

If I have this story about the future, this thing might go wrong, or we might all die, or my kid might struggle, or whatever. And I feel negative when I think it, then I just go, “No, not true.” I mean, here’s the thing. I know it’s true that any of these things could happen. That’s not saying, again, I’m not suggesting we bury our heads in the sand. I’m just saying it’s just a story. And I am pretty good at this point because I’ve been doing this for so many years. I’m pretty good at finding an equally true in my mind story that feels a lot better.

And really my faith and my membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and my connection and relationship with the savior, helps me to do that. Because I always have these default thoughts I can go to, which is the Lord’s in charge. We’re all going to be fine. This is God’s plan. The atonement covers everything.

And so all I need to do is just keep loving and trusting, and choosing happiness, choosing peace. That’s it, that’s my job. I’m going to do my job. And I’m going to teach my kids. And I’m going to hold them accountable to things. And I’m going to try to be the best mom I can be, but not with fear, and worry, and anxiety, with peace, and love, and faith. That is my most important job.

And if something was going to go terribly wrong that I needed to know about. I will know about it. And if there is a problem down the road for me, or one of my family members, or something, then we will know what we’re up against and we will have all the pieces of the puzzle we’re trying to solve so we’ll be able to solve it. We’ll be able to figure out what happens next.

Think about the pandemic. I was thinking about this. I was thinking about how kind of amazing human beings are and how many brilliant people there are in our world that have helped us adapt to what’s going on and figure out how to navigate it, to where wearing a face mask is just a normal part of my kids’ lives. They just know that’s just what we do.

And if somebody would have told me two and a half years ago, “Hey, at one point your kids are going to be wearing a face mask to school every day for a good year or two. And we’re all going to wear face masks every time we get on an airplane. And we’re going to be getting COVID tested all the time. And we’re going to be – there’s going to be a pandemic and it’s going to affect the global supply chain, and our economies, and a lot of people are going to die.” If somebody would have described this to me two and a half years ago, I would have been freaked out.

There are still a lot of challenges. I’m not trying to minimize the challenges that COVID has provided for a lot of people, and the loss, and the grief and all of that. I’m not saying that any of that’s not real. I’m just saying, on the greater whole, we’ve figured out, okay, we need to wear a face mask to school. Or however it is that you choose to navigate COVID. Some people choose, it’s not a big deal if I get sick, I’ll be fine. Whatever it is that you choose, this is not meant to be a COVID agenda episode. I’m just saying, we figured out how to navigate it.

And even if it means, heaven forbid, that we’ve lost a loved one, then we’ve figured out how to grieve that, and how to move through that process, or we’re in the process of figuring that out. And we just adapt and we figure it out. And overall, we’re okay, we’re always going to be okay.

So once we get there, the problem itself is never as scary as the problem that our brains dream up. And so I do believe that feeling as good as I can on a day-to-day basis is my job. It’s what I want to bring into the world. I want to offer peace and love and I do. I’m not worried about the future. I’m not worried about my kids even, other than in small moments when my brain brings it online and then I just go, “No, not true.”

Feeling good is your most important job as long as you’re doing it while also living into your highest self. It is the most important work you can do. Think about it, you’re a better parent, you’re better at your job, you’re better at your church calling. You’re a better neighbor, you’re a better friend, you’re a better sister, you’re a better cousin, you’re a better wife. You’re better at anything you want to do when you feel good. You are better at pursuing your goals, you’re able to be more generous, you’re able to be more forgiving, you’re able to stop judging.

All bad behavior comes from some version of fear, period. That’s what the research shows, that’s what the experts teach. Hurt people, hurt people. Which means that well people, happy people, healthy people, help people, that’s it. Not to mention, it’s a lot more fun. It’s a much more fun way to live your life. And I do believe that emotions are something that we all borrow from one another, just like we all borrow thoughts from one another.

And if you want to feel good, you’re welcome to come and hang out with me because a good portion of the time I’m pretty good at feeling good about any topic. In fact, that’s one of the things that’s so powerful about coaching is I give people permission to feel good about things, and we do it in a way that’s believable. We’re not just chanting affirmations. We have to find stories to redirect the brain to that are believable. But I give people permission to feel good no matter what the circumstance and everybody borrows from that.

So if you don’t have a coach, you know how I feel about that. You should for sure get one to help you to feel good because it’s your most important job, please don’t neglect that job.

Alright everybody, thanks for joining me today. I hope you have a beautiful rest of your week, and I’ll see you next time. Bye bye

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Many of us grew up believing, for various reasons, that we would one day get married and have a spouse that would meet our needs. But I am of the opinion that it is our job to meet our own needs. And the romanticized idea that someone else is going to “complete” us can actually be really toxic. It creates problems in marriages and families, and it’s not even true.

This is a controversial topic for some people. People often misunderstand what I mean when I talk about meeting your own needs, and I only have myself to blame for that. So this week, I’m going to thoroughly explain myself, and teach you how to start meeting your own needs.

Tune in this week to discover the four steps to meeting your own needs. I’m sharing why relying on other people to meet our needs is a losing battle, and why even though our needs are complicated and difficult to manage sometimes, they’re an incredible gift from Heavenly Father.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Where the belief comes from that we need other people to meet our needs. * The material and emotional needs we all have as human beings. * How to see where your needs are not being met, by yourself or anyone else. * Why nobody outside of us can actually meet our needs. * How our needs are a gift from our Heavenly Parents to drive us toward our best life. * Why I believe every single one of us has the ability to meet our own needs. * 4 steps to start meeting your own needs.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 334: How to Meet Your Own Needs.

Hello everybody. Welcome to the podcast. How we doing? I just wanted to share an experience I had this morning because I’m just so proud of myself because I signed up to go to an Orangetheory fitness class this morning. I signed up a few days ago I should say. I actually signed up at the end of our Disneyland trip when I was like, “I have got to stop eating so much junk food and I’ve got to get some legit exercise.”

So anyway, I signed up and then this morning I had the hardest time waking up. I think I’m still recovering from four days walking around Disneyland and I’ve been staying up a little bit later than normal. And gosh, it was just rough waking up. And to think that not only did I have to get up but I had to go do this really intense workout class, my brain was like, no, that’s not going to happen. And then it started giving me all these reasons why it started telling me. There’s so many things you need to get done.

If you go to that class, the gym itself is a good 20 minutes away. So by the time I drive there and back, takes up a good chunk of time just that. And then you’re going to have to shower and get ready because I have a coaching call coming up in a little bit here in Be Bold. There’s all those returns. You could use that time this morning to go return that stuff that’s been sitting in your closet that you need to return, not to mention there’s a few groceries you need to pick up from the store. And it just started selling me on all the reasons why I should not go to that class.

And I just told myself, we’re just going to get in the car and drive there, that’s all. And we’re just going to go into the class and we’re just going to walk on the treadmill because the class, half the time you’re on treadmills, half the time you’re doing strength training and maybe some rowers. So I was like, “We’re not going to do anything too intense, don’t worry. We don’t even have to jog or run today, we could just walk.”

So this is what I do when I really don’t want to do something but I do want to do the thing, but in the moment I don’t want to do it. I want to have done it, I just don’t want to do it. I just sell myself on the little baby steps that I can get my head around. Because walking on a treadmill, I can do that okay. That’s not too bad, not too tough. So I just tell myself that, that’s it, we’re just going to walk if necessary and it’ll be fine, we’ll just take it easy. We can even leave early if it’s really hard.

So I was like alright, and so I went in and I got on the treadmill and I started walking. And as my body woke up, and my brain woke up, and my muscles woke up and everything, I was like, walking’s kind of boring, I want to jog. And so I started jogging and then I started running. And so of course once you get into it, it feels good even though it’s kind of painful. And after it was over, I just paused for a moment.

And this is the piece that I want to really encourage you to try out. When you do something you didn’t really want to do, I want you to think back to that past version of you and I want you to think her, that’s what I did. I said, “Thank you two hours ago Jody for doing this for me.” Because of course after a workout you feel so good, so energized, the blood is flowing, you’re so proud of yourself. I’ve got to keep doing that now, one time isn’t really going to improve my health the way I want to. But it did improve my mood, and my attitude, and my energy level for even just today.

So I always pause and I say, “Thank you for doing that two hours ago, me, that was so nice of you. I so appreciate you because it really was beneficial.” So anyway, just trying to give you some brain hacks, give you a little insight into my brain and how I manage it. That’s not what we’re talking about today though. We’re talking about how to meet your own needs. How does that sound?

So this is a topic that it’s one of my most favorite tools, when I found it and I started living this way, my life got so much better and I became so much happier. But it’s also a topic that is really controversial for people. It’s something that I have sometimes put out there in a way that people misunderstand and I take the blame for that. I feel like if I can’t thoroughly explain it, I probably shouldn’t talk about it because it can be easily misinterpreted and misunderstood. And so I wanted to do a whole podcast on it today because first I want to introduce you to the idea if you haven’t heard it.

But second of all, I want to teach you how to do it because a lot of people, when I explain it, like the concept but they don’t know how to do it. So I’m going to teach it to you in four steps today. How do you like that, how to do it?

So first let me introduce the idea. Many of us grew up believing for various reasons that we would one day get married and have a spouse that would meet our needs. It probably started when we were kids and we expected our parents to meet our needs or relied on our parents, or some kind of caregiver or adult to meet our needs. And hopefully you had some people in your life that helped meet your needs as a child. You did for sure or you wouldn’t be listening to this, you wouldn’t be alive. None of us could have actually even survived at some point without somebody meeting our needs.

But as we get older, as we mature, as we become capable adults, I am of the opinion that it is then our job to meet our own needs. And this romanticized idea that we’re taught that you’re going to meet a prince charming, or a princess, or a partner, romantic partner that’s going to complete you and meet your needs for you, I think can be really toxic. I see it create so many problems in marriages and families, and all kinds of relationships, but especially shows up in the marriage or in romantic relationships.

So what I believe is that our needs are first of all a gift that we’re given by our heavenly parents. And I’ll talk about different types of needs in a minute. But we have some basic needs when it comes to survival. But we also have some sort of higher needs, you might say. We have need for connection. We have a need for contribution. We have a need to feel we’re creating value in the world. We have just a creative need in general.

We have all kinds of needs that the reason I say they’re a gift is because those needs drive us towards our best life. They drive us to become more of who we are, more of who we’re capable of becoming. And they help us to contribute more in the world. So it’s a pretty amazing system that our Heavenly Father set up for us. He’s like, “Hey, you’re going to feel this desire or this need to contribute, for example, and there are going to be other people who will benefit from your contribution.” And so it’s a way that we help each other but we also fulfill our own needs.

And that’s just one need I’m using as an example. But I think all of our needs, and we have some similar needs, our basic needs, our survival needs. But when it comes to those higher level needs we all vary, we all have different needs. Some people have a really higher social need, a higher need to connect with other people than others. Some people have a higher material need, that they desire a certain amount of stuff, others not so much. So all different types of needs that we have as we mature and grow.

And I think again that if you follow the steps I’m going to give you today then first of all you can always have your needs met, you don’t have to rely on anyone outside of you. And second of all, you can live your most extraordinary life and contribute the most good in the world. It’s a pretty fun way to live. So let me just kind of round out this idea that your partner or your spouse should meet your needs. That mostly doesn’t work in my experience and in the thousands of individuals that I’ve coached.

If I go to my husband and say, “Hey, husband”, I’ll just call him Jake since that’s his name. “Hey, Jake, I need to feel appreciated.” We all have this need to feel appreciated, I think most people anyway. So if I go to him and say, “Could you just remember to notice when I make dinner”, for example, “Or to leave me a note, some kind of a kind note or to just text me every now and then.” I might be able to tell him, and this is what a lot of traditional marriage counseling recommends, tell each other what your needs are so the other person can meet them.

And Jake might even be willing to try to meet my need. He might say, “Okay, you know what? I can do that. I’m going to try to remember to text you every day to thank you for what you did for our family that day so you can feel appreciated.” Here’s what happens, well, obviously a lot of things can happen. But here’s what I see commonly happen in this situation. Maybe he does it for a while but probably not long term because it wasn’t his idea. It’s not coming from his need to express appreciation and connect with me in that way, it’s coming from him trying to meet my need.

So it’s sort of a version of him pretending, even if he does appreciate what I do. If he’s not the type that would send a text message every day to tell me that then he’s only doing it because I asked him to. And then I’m maybe allowing myself to believe that now he appreciates me but it’s just an interesting dynamic because he’s pretending now. He’s like, “I’m going to pretend to want to send you a text message because you asked me to.” So I’m allowing myself to feel validated and believe that he loves me or appreciates me because he pretended in the way that I asked him to pretend.

It’s just odd. Now, ultimately over time he’s not going to want to keep pretending or he’s not going to be good at pretending. So sometimes I see this dynamic where the partner or spouse tries to fulfill the need but then the other person is still unhappy because they don’t do it right. They didn’t say the right thing. They didn’t do it at the right time. They didn’t do it in the right way or they’re not consistent enough about it. Have you ever had this happen? I have. I’m like, “No, that’s not what I meant. I didn’t mean to say that. I didn’t mean right that.”

We can feel the insincerity behind it. And the truth is that our needs are always something that have to be met internally. If I want to feel appreciated that only can come from my thoughts. So if my husband sends me a text and then I allow myself to think I’m important, I’m doing a good job, that’s one way. But a much easier way is to just decide to tell myself, you’re important, Jody, you’re doing a good job, keep going. So that is the reason I don’t like spouses to rely on one another to meet their needs.

I’m going to talk in a minute about how I do recommend that spouses serve, and support, and love one another. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be considerate of each other. But I don’t want you relying on anyone outside of you to meet your needs because it’s unreliable. Other people may or may not follow through on the requests we make of them. So I believe that when we understand this, and we try this out and we practice meeting our own needs, like I said, first of all, it’s super empowering, it’s super peaceful, it’s super fun.

But I believe it’s also one of the kindest most loving things I can do for all the people in my life because I have needs. We all have needs. So I can either wait around and hope that they’ll meet them or I can take ownership of meeting them myself and then I don’t have to resent them, be frustrated with them, expect them to read my mind, expect them to pretend to be different than they are so that I can feel good about myself. And I’ll talk more when we get to step four about why that is, obviously that’s a relief for people in your life.

But I want to talk a little bit more about how that helps serve the world so well. So let’s go through the four steps then for how to meet your own needs.

Step one. Pay attention to your dirty pain. Dirty pain is an indicator that you have a need. So I’m going to give a quick summary of clean pain and dirty pain. I talk a lot more about clean pain and dirty pain in Better Than Happy, the book. But here’s a quick summary. Clean pain is the pain that is appropriate, that we want to have. It moves through us as we allow it and relax into it. And we are able to process it and it helps us sort of live into our humanity.

So clean pain is maybe sadness, disappointment at times. We want to be sad when certain things happen in the world. We want to be disappointed when people we love make certain choices. So it’s that kind of pain. It makes sense I would feel that way. I kind of want to feel this way. It feels mature. I think Christ would feel this way in this situation.

Dirty pain on the other hand is pain that keeps us stuck. It’s a more immature kind of pain. It’s often, the way I recognize it in myself is I’m often being sort of childlike or adolescent like in the way that I’m feeling. It keeps me stuck and spinning, instead of moving through me and progressing. It’s not coming from love. It’s coming from justification or righteousness. So for example, dirty pain might be things like overwhelm, stress. It’s not necessary to be overwhelmed. It’s okay if you are, nothing wrong with, I’m not saying you shouldn’t feel dirty pain.

This is step one, pay attention to your dirty pain or pay attention to, hey, I’m feeling overwhelmed. What is it that I’m needing? I’m feeling stressed. What is it that I’m needing? I even talk to myself. I say, “Hey Jody, what are you needing right now?” It might be frustration. Resentment is a huge one. Resentment is an indicator that you have needs that you are not meeting. And we get mad because we think the other people were going to meet them and they’re not. But it’s really just because we are the ones. We’re the only ones who can meet our needs.

Sometimes my clients describe this dirty pain as being like this feeling of being unseen or unheard. They say, “I just don’t feel seen or heard. I just don’t feel acknowledged. I just don’t feel like anyone appreciates me.” Lack of appreciation. It sort of can be this feeling of that’s not fair, it’s not fair. It’s righteousness, justification. Sometimes it’s even boredom or this feeling of being stagnant or unfulfilled. Or even curiosity. Curiosity isn’t really painful so much. But it’s an indicator that you have a need.

The reason we become curious about something is because we have a need to continue to learn, and grow, and develop skills, and try new things, and become next versions of ourselves. So you’ve got to pay attention to that.

Now, this leads me to step two which is to welcome the knowing. Here’s what I mean. When you start noticing, I’m feeling frustrated, I’m feeling resentful, I’m feeling angry, I’m feeling afraid, and these feel like dirty pain emotions. They don’t feel necessary. They’re not serving me. Don’t be mad at it. Don’t tell yourself I shouldn’t feel this way. Welcome it. Go, “Okay, what are you here to tell me, resentment? What are you trying to show me, frustration? What are you trying to help me understand? I want to understand it.” You have to be loving with yourself.

You have to listen to yourself. So many of you are rejecting that part of yourselves. I like to think of that part of myself again as an adolescent or a little girl, depending on what I’m feeling. And I talk to that adolescent or little girl version of me. And I say, “What’s going on? What’s the matter? What are you needing? Tell me.” And she’ll tell me if I pay attention and listen. She’ll tell me, “I just don’t feel seen. I just don’t feel acknowledged. I just feel like this isn’t fair.”

Now, a lot of her thoughts don’t make sense, they’re not logical and rational. I have a lot of other thoughts and a lot of other things I know that counteract what she’s saying. But that’s okay, I’m not going to shut her down and go, “You shouldn’t think that.” I just let it come up, take a look at it. We want to hear her. We want to see her. We want to attempt to understand so we can’t be in a rush with this step two. We have to continue to observe ourselves.

There may be things that we can’t figure out right away as we try to listen and we have to give ourselves time and space, and just keep in the observing phase of what’s going on. We want to comfort ourselves. Instead of going, “You shouldn’t feel that way. What’s the matter with you.” It’s got to be, “It’s okay, it’s okay to feel that way. I understand. You have good reason for it, tell me more.” And the best way I can describe this phase is like a gratitude for the knowing. If you could be grateful for the awareness then you’re not going to push it away and be ashamed and feel guilty about it.

So be grateful that you have these emotions, these human emotions, even the dirty pain ones, they’re human emotions that our heavenly parents gave us to navigate us towards our best life and towards what will serve us. So that’s step two, welcome the knowing.

Step three then is to hold space for the solution to come. Hold space for the way to meet those needs. Now, again, most of our needs are just thoughts we’re trying to believe but it’s okay to have different experiences, different relationships, different circumstances in your life that make it easier to think the thoughts you want to think. So hold space for the way that that will happen. What I mean by hold space is stay open to it. Don’t shut down and go, “Well.”

Let me give you an example, I have coached people sometimes who say something like, “I love to travel and I want to travel. And I have this huge curiosity, and desire, and interest in travel because I want to explore the world. And I want to see new places and meet new people and understand different cultures.” And that can be a need. “And my spouse, doesn’t want to travel, he or she hates to travel. And they don’t think we should spend the money on it. And they won’t go with me.” So how am I supposed to meet that need?”

And I say to them, “Okay, let’s understand it, let’s go through the steps. Let’s recognize the dirty pain. Let’s be curious, and compassionate, and open, and hold space for it. And then let’s just decide that of course there is a way for you to meet that need. And it doesn’t have to mean that you are disrespecting of your spouse or anything. There is a way for you to meet that need. It’s just not the way that you thought it was going to be in your head. And I don’t mean, “Okay, let’s just settle for second best. I mean the way is going to be even better than what you thought.”

So you have to stay open to it. You have to not know the answer at first because if you knew the answer you would have already figured it out. You would have already met that need. So stay open to, I don’t know the way but there is a way. There is a way that I can be loving, and supportive, and kind, and that I don’t have to, again, disrespect anything that I choose to do in my marriage. And I can still meet this need to travel. I wonder what that way is going to be. Allow it to come. Yes, you want to seek it but don’t seek it with this rushed impatience.

You have to seek it with patience, and faith, and trust, and allowing and it might take a little time. That’s okay. The other thing that I want to add here with step three of holding space for the solution to come is it is okay to ask other people for things. It is okay to keep asking your husband, “Hey, I would love to travel”, or your wife, or whoever, “I would love to travel. If you ever change your mind let me know. Because I’m going to plan a trip. I want to go with somebody so I don’t know who yet. Maybe it will be my sister, or a friend, or somebody like that. But if you decide to come let me know.”

It’s okay to make requests of people. What I don’t want you to do though is to just hand over your emotions to whether or not they meet your request. That’s the mistake we make when we’re expecting other people to meet our needs. Make requests all day long but choose how you’re going to feel regardless of whether or not they honor your request. Once you go through step three and you allow space and you get curious, and open then you will receive guidance. You will find solutions to your needs that you could have never guessed before.

You staying open and keeping your heart open, and just being curious and open to it instead of I’ve got to meet this need in order to get out of this pain will guide you to things that will blow your mind. I’m telling you, I’ve experienced this over, and over, and over again. So then that takes us to step four, once you have figured out how to meet your needs then first of all you’re going to have to keep doing it over and over again. It’s not a checkbox. You’re going to have new needs that come up so you’ll have to have to keep doing this process.

But what I want you to do in step four is to offer your complete self to the world. I really do think this is the finishing step on meeting our needs. I personally think that we are so wired to help others, we are so wired to give, and contribute, and connect, and love. That if we don’t do that it feels like we got three-quarters of the way there on meeting our needs. So what do I mean by that? Well, it might be that you go help people with the same needs that you had, that’s common.

For example, once I became a coach, becoming a coach fulfilled so many needs for me, the need I have to keep learning, to challenge myself, to grow. I have a need to teach and speak. I love connecting with people in that way. But then, and I guess this leads into that last part, then I wanted to go help other people. That’s why I taught at The Life Coach School. I still do teach at The Life Coach School. And I teach an advanced coach training because the culmination of that for me is helping other people who have those same needs, and those same interests, and those same desires.

But it doesn’t have to be that you are working with people who have the same needs. It could just be that I now as a mother I’m feeling fulfilled and complete. And so I can offer a completed me to my family. I bring a complete me into my marriage when I’m doing this correctly. I bring a full me to my family. So I’m not constantly trying to get my needs met by them. I’m there to serve and love them. And I have 10 times more to give when I’m showing up from already completed needs. I have more energy. I have better ideas.

I’m so much more fun to be around because I’m in a better mood. And I can serve in whatever way I choose to serve so much better when I meet my needs.

Alright, so let’s just summarize it just to wrap up. Step one, pay attention to your dirty pain. It’s trying to tell you something. This is how you’re going to discover what your needs are. You need to know what they are. Step two, welcome the knowing. Don’t be mad about it. Don’t tell yourself you shouldn’t feel that way, or you shouldn’t think what you’re thinking, or you shouldn’t have these needs. Step three, hold space for the solution to come. And then step four, offer your fulfilled complete self to the world.

Alright everybody, I hope you have an amazing holiday celebration all month long. I hope that you do this work of meeting your own needs. If you have questions about how to do it come to Instagram, I would love to interact with you there. You can find me at Jody Moore Coaching. You can post on comments. I’m very active on there. You can DM me, whatever you want, I’d love to help you out with this. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing. Have a beautiful rest of your day.

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This week’s episode is dedicated to any of you parents who might be struggling with your kids and teenagers. My guest on the show today is someone I actually met years ago through The Life Coach School, and he’s got the most amazing insights about how to navigate raising teenagers that benefit both you and them.

Ben Pugh was a high school principal before his coaching practice took off a couple of years ago. His expertise lies in helping parents create better relationships with their teens, and his wisdom comes from his own experience as a teen who was suspended multiple times, labeled an arsonist, and as his career as a principal, which gives him such a unique perspective I think we can all find value in.

Listen in as Ben shares his knowledge on what it’s like being a teenager in the world today, how he helps parents guide their children without control, and the most powerful thing you can do as a parent in this position. We can all relate to the panic and anxiety that comes up when we think our teens are misbehaving, and Ben is offering his most powerful strategies for approaching these challenging moments with love.

What You’ll Learn on this Episode: * Ben’s experience as a teenager. * What made Ben choose to go down the route of becoming a high school principal. * How Ben used the coaching tools he learned to be the best principal he could be. * Why it’s so important for parents to get coaching if they’re struggling with their teenagers. * The most powerful thing you can do as a parent. * Where thought work can come in to guide you during challenging moments. * The only thing keeping you from the relationship you want with your teenager.

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 333: Wisdom From a High School Principal Life Coach.

Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited that you’re here today. I have an amazing guest to introduce you to that you are going to love. Before we get into my conversation with Ben and I’ll tell you about him in just a minute. But don’t forget that we have the annual gift pass available right now.

If you’re looking for a Christmas gift for somebody who likes this work, who is a podcast fan or who has found power in the model and the tools that I teach inside Be Bold we take everything so much deeper. People tell me that all the time, they say, “I didn’t think I was going to really get a lot new by coming into Be Bold. I can’t believe how much is there, first of all, and how much deeper my understanding and ability to apply these tools became by joining that program.”

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Okay, so I am very excited to introduce you to Ben Pugh. Ben is somebody that I have known for a few years, kind of known from afar. I didn’t know him as well until I finally brought him on the podcast and we had this amazing conversation. I thought that you would get a lot out of hearing from Ben because first of all it’s kind of nice to hear somebody else who teaches and uses similar tools to what I use but has a different style, a different approach. I think the men like hearing from more men life coaches so there’s that.

But also Ben was a high school principal before his coaching practice really took off. And he has some of the most amazing stories and the most amazing insight about how to navigate raising your teenagers and what it’s like to be a teenager in the world today. And how do we guide them without trying to control them? And how do we just love them unconditionally? And so I am very excited for you to hear from my friend, Ben Pugh. Let’s do it.

Jody: Okay, Ben Pugh, I’m so excited that you’re here on the podcast today.

Ben: I’m excited to be here. I’ve wanted to be on your podcast forever. And I actually feel like we just had a conversation today because I was listening to some of your podcasts but you probably don’t feel the same.

Jody: I was talking at you at least.

Ben: Yeah.

Jody: Okay. Well, I’m glad we finally made it happen. So let’s start with an introduction. Tell everybody a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Ben: Alright. So I’ll start kind of a long time ago because this is relevant to who I am today.

Jody: Let’s go way back, tell us the good stuff.

Ben: I want to tell you about when I was 13 years old and I accidentally lit my school bus on fire with rubber cement.

Jody: Oh my goodness.

Ben: Yeah. And I always tell, this is part of who I am. This used to be something I was super afraid of. But when I was a high school principal I used this story to save one of my students’ lives. I don’t know if it was that scary. But when I was 13 one of my friends stole some rubber cement. He asked me to keep it in my backpack. I knew exactly that it was stolen and that as the 13 year old I was, I was like, no, I’ll just keep it in my backpack, it’ll be fine. On the bus ride home, luckily it was towards the end so all the good kids were in the front and us few knuckleheads were in the back.

My friend’s like, “Hey, pass me over the rubber cement.” And as I’m digging it out one of my friends was like, “Hey, I’ve got a lighter. Let’s see what happens.” So I take the lid off. Back when I was in school we used rubber cement for everything. You had to paste your test behind this pretty background of construction paper or something. Anyways, I took the lid off, my friend lit it on fire and it went up in flames so fast. I tried to put the lid on and I couldn’t.

I tried to throw it out of the bus window and I missed, I hit the little, tiny bar in between the open windows and sent flaming rubber cement all over the back of the bus. I burned a hole in my pants. My friend got a hole burned in his shoes. And we were in a lot of trouble. And I remember that was the first time I was suspended as a kid. And my mom was like, “All the kids that I knew whoever got suspended are either dead or in jail.”

And then I had to go to church and my church leaders were like, “Yeah, you’re not going to be able to serve in mission because we don’t send arsonists out to represent the church.” But as I’ve gotten to know Jesus a little bit better, I think, no, that’s exactly who He wants to send [inaudible].”

Jody: Actually we do. My goodness.

Ben: And I did serve the mission. And several years later I became a high school principal. And I didn’t think that I could. So I just got lucky and things fell into place. And I was a high school principal.

Jody: Okay. But what made you choose that route? I’m curious.

Ben: Honestly.

Jody: Going from being this sort of rambunctious child?

Ben: I just made dumb decisions as a child. I got suspended lots of times. It’s hard being overweight and having the last name, Pugh. And when you sit down at the cafeteria table and everyone’s like, “P U.” And they get up and leave and you’re like I can see the humor but it doesn’t feel funny. So I don’t ever look back at myself and see myself as being a bad kid making dumb decisions.

I was talking to one of my cousins recently. And they’re like, “How did you change? What changed?” And I’m like, “Honestly, I don’t feel like I’ve changed. I have always just been doing my best.” And I remember my mom being like, “How can you be failing? How can you?” And I love my mom by the way. I am so grateful for how she parented me because this is kind of what has turned me into who I am today. But I remember her saying, “Why is this so hard for you?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. I’m doing my best.”

So I’ll tell you kind of, I lived a life of fear. I built houses with my dad. We did high end construction work in Salt Lake City. And I was just always afraid that someone would find out that I lit my school bus on fire and that I had been suspended multiple times as a teenager. I love football. So I volunteered to help coach football at a local high school. I was like, “Man, wouldn’t it be cool if I could just be a teacher. Too bad I lit a school bus on fire years ago.”

And we happened to be building a man’s house who was a principal at the school that I later became the principal of. And this is around 2008 when the housing market crashed. And he’s like, “You’re an awesome guy. If you ever want out of construction, come talk to me, I’ll put you to work at my school.” And the housing market crashed so I called him up and was like, “Wherever you want me.” And he was like, “Sweet. We need a substitute teacher.” A few months later I became a tutor mentor.

And then within about a year they were like, “Finish up your college. We’ll hire you to be a teacher right now while you finish up your school.” And I was like, “Sweet, yeah, let’s do it.” And a while later I became the high school principal. And this is where my story kind of comes full circle. I had to suspend a kid for smoking weed in the bathroom. And his dad was a big, huge native American man who was just so mad. And he’s just yelling and swearing at him. And I was like, “Oh my goodness, I’m going to have to probably get beat up by this dad to protect his child.”

And so I’m like, “Hey, time out. Let me tell you about the first time I got suspended.” And this silence comes over in my office. And I tell the story. And I’m like, “I lit a school bus on fire and I turned out okay. I’m a high school principal.” And he elbows, this dad elbows his son, he’s like, “Hey, at least you didn’t light the school bathroom on fire.” And he was just chuckling. And he’s like, “You know what? Maybe you’ll be a principal someday.” Completely changed the mood. And that’s when I was like, “Oh my goodness. I can offer hope. I can offer these new beliefs.”

And I was familiar with Brooke Castillo at that time. I started listening to her podcasts and there’s 15 episodes. And I was like, “Oh my goodness. I think I could share this with parents as well and help them stop worrying that their teenager has ruined their life.”

Jody: Here’s what’s fascinating about this is that that experience you had that you thought was your weakness, it all of a sudden now is your strength.

Ben: Yeah, 100%.

Jody: In this scenario, yeah. I love that.

Ben: And my mom, I was talking to her the other day and she’s like, “I’m so sorry about your childhood. We yelled. We spanked too much. It wasn’t always pretty.” And she just starts crying and I’ve really improved my relationship with my mom as I’ve understood. No, my childhood was perfect. That’s exactly what I needed so that I can now help other moms, or dads, or their teenagers.

And as I told her, I’m like, “Mom, no, I loved my childhood. When you told me, all the other kids either died or went to prison. Yeah, that was a little scary. But guess what? I have learned that you were just parenting out of fear. And you were doing your best. And you were ashamed.” I spoke at a high school graduation not too long ago, I invited my parents. She still turns just bright red when I talk about lighting the school bus on fire, like that’s my kid.

Jody: Like that’s my child.

Ben: But that’s exactly what I needed to be who I am today.

Jody: I love it. Okay, so you started listening to Brooke Castillo at The Life Coach School, her podcast. I met you years ago at one of Brooke’s events. There were 30 of us there or something.

Ben: I’ve told that story before. “Yeah, I was in a room with Brooke and 20 other people, and Jody was there.” And people were like, “No. No, you weren’t.” Yeah, back in the beginning and it was awesome.

Jody: Yeah, you were.

Ben: And she sold me on being a life coach. Actually she didn’t. She didn’t close the sale. And I was like, “I can’t afford it.” And it was so powerful what she did. She turned everything around and she sold me on me. “Yeah, go pay off your car. Go do this. Go do all of that and then you’ll be ready to come back.” And sure enough…

Jody: So let me pause for a minute and just explain for our listeners. So this was a – it was a one day event where Brooke did lots of coaching. I can’t remember what the day was called.

Ben: Yeah, how to be happy.

Jody: Yeah, how to feel better, something like that.

Ben: Yeah, that was the one, which I’m always happy. I just wanted to go and meet Brooke.

Jody: Right. It was awesome. I remember thinking, I always love watching Brooke coach. And I was there because at the time I was working for The Life Coach School helping sell coach training. And we offered coach training that day. Even I remember at the end of that day saying to Brooke, “You didn’t really sell it.” She mentioned it, she’s like, “This is what coach training is. And if you want to do it, here’s how it works and here’s how it costs.” And she took a few questions.

But I asked her later, she could have really sold it and pushed it like you said. She said, “No, no, no, I don’t want to put anyone into that that isn’t quite ready. I don’t want to sell people on it. For their sakes, I want people to be successful if they’re going to go through my program. And they have to be able to sell themselves on it.” And so she really does have really good intentions. And I have worked in lots of sales jobs where the intentions are a little bit less authentic. And she really is just so abundant that she doesn’t need to talk anyone into coming to coach training.

She needs to find the people that are ready. And if you’re not ready she wants to point you towards creating your best life. And if you choose to come back, great, and if not, she still helped you.

Ben: That’s had a huge impact on my life because I’m always like, “I don’t need you to do anything. But if I can help you believe in you, that’s the most powerful gift I can give you.” And that’s what she gave me I feel like. I left that thing like, man, she’s totally right, I can pay this off. I can do all this work. And I will be ready. And that’s when I remember really being sold on the life coaching stuff. The podcast is cool and it’s cool to really learn.

But to come away from just a one day event and have a completely new vision of yourself, a new belief like, no, this is who I am and this is who I can be. And they connect and it’s amazing.

Jody: That’s so great. That’s been my experience with coaching too. It’s one off experiences that are transformative. And then there’s you before that and there’s you after that. And it’s pretty awesome to witness and experience.

Ben: And there’s you in the middle. And sometimes it’s uncomfortable. But it’s trusting that, no, no, there’s me in the middle somehow, I don’t know how but it connects to exactly who I want to be.

Jody: Where I’m going, yeah, I love that so much. Okay, so then at one point you did go to coach training.

Ben: Yeah. Probably my last two years. So I was a high school principal for five years. I went to coach certification. I had my call with you at the time. I don’t know what you did for The Life Coach School.

Jody: It was still a while ago. What year did you get certified as a coach?

Ben: 2018.

Jody: Okay, yeah, so it’s been a few years, alright.

Ben: I remember you were kind of taking people through that process of being like, “Are you committed or are you not?” Which I love. “You know what I feel like? You’re not really committed. So we’re not going to waste your money.” But you just really again, helped me believe in me and I tried starting my business while being a high school principal. But that was just really hard. And I know all the coaches listening are like, “Well, that’s a thought.”

But I took the school from a 55% graduation rate to 88 in the last three years. We dropped suspensions from 200 a year down below 20 a year. And we just did amazing, amazing things. And I remember coming to a point where I was like, “Man, I’m a certified coach, I’m not using this.” And I felt really guilt. But I looked at all my results at the school and I was like, “No, I have totally used those tools. They’re benefitting me in my life exactly how they’re supposed to.” And all of a sudden the guilt was just gone.

And I was like, “Awesome, I’ll just use those for coaching when I’m ready. And right now I’ll use them to be the best principal that I can be.”

Jody: Love that, yeah. And I think a lot of coaches experience that so I’m really glad you’re sharing that, that these tools are applicable in your life as a parent, as a spouse, in your job. If you want to go start a coaching practice, great do it, but it’s not necessary to benefit from whatever it is. And I’m not here trying to sell The Life Coach School. I’m just saying, whatever you choose to expose yourself to with tools of personal development, first and foremost they are for us to work on ourselves.

And to me, that alone is worth the price of whatever I pay to further my knowledge of understanding. But then second of all, we have opportunities all around us to use them. So anyway, okay, so how long have you had your coaching practice? And you’re not working at the high school anymore or you are?

Ben: No. I am not working at the high school. So I worked on the Ute Indian reservation. I actually got fired from there twice, [inaudible].

Jody: Congratulations.

Ben: I know, I feel the second time kind of validates things, like, “Guys, have you fired me and brought me back?” And yeah, it’s good. So I’ve been doing my own coaching for about two and a half years now. I started in weight loss, I was like, “This will be easy.” And I found out, I’m not passionate about weight loss. But I am passionate about helping parents and their teenagers. And after enough people were like, “Every time you start talking about weight loss we end talking about parents, and teenagers, and how to help them. Maybe you should coach in that area.”

Jody: Maybe that’s your forte.

Ben: But it’s not a thing yet. Everyone’s like, “But yeah, if it were a thing, you would be the guy.” So I just made it a thing and Joey Mascio and I have created The Firmly Founded Parent and the Firmly Founded Teen. And we just do what we’re passionate about. We help parents and we help teenagers. And it’s the funnest thing I’ve ever done. I loved being a high school principal. I always am like, “Man, it’s a good thing I got fired because I never would have become a life coach. I just would have done that forever.”

But now I am so happy with where I’m at today and just using all the skills and the tools that I learned from The Life Coach School and as a principal. And just bringing them in and saying, “No, no, I can help you with your teen. And I’ve seen it work with all of these teens and let’s get to work with you as a parent. And I promise you that will help your teen more than anything else.”

Jody: Okay. So tell me this, Ben, I want to hear your thoughts on when a teenager is struggling in various ways, misbehaving, getting in trouble, or feeling down, or whatever. I would imagine, correct me if I’m wrong, but I would imagine you’re seeing all these things, you and Joey. Why is it so important? Because I think a lot of times as parents we think something has gone wrong with my kid. Can you fix my kid? Can you coach my kid? Which is by the way, not going to necessarily fix your kid but that’s what we think.

So why is it so important that the parent or parents are getting coaching as well?

Ben: Yeah. I’ll give you one of my favorite examples. I had these parents hop on a call with me and they were like, “Our son, he’s smoking weed, he’s drinking alcohol. He’s making all these dumb decisions. He needs coaching.” And the kid’s sitting there sheepishly like, “Yeah, I’ve done all of that.” I’m like, “Dude, do you see a problem with any of this?” And he’s like, “Well, yeah.” And I can tell he’s just telling me what his parents have told him. And I’m like, “No, no, you personally.” And I can tell he doesn’t. So that’s when I shifted my focus to mom and dad.

And I’m like, “Guys, he’s not ready to change and I can help him. I’d love to help him but he doesn’t see a problem in this. And the fact is in the model it’s neutral. It’s a circumstance. And I can help you two.” And what ended up happening was mom and dad hired me. And went through some work. And the kid got in trouble again. I can’t remember exactly what he did.

But the mom was like, “I’m so proud of myself. I wasn’t yelling. I wasn’t catastrophizing. I showed up as the parent that I wanted to be. And I realized most of my suffering was just my own recreated suffering from what I was making it mean”, and blah, blah, blah and all this. And I was like, “Wow, that’s amazing.” And she’s like, “And I know you’ve already met with my son but after I handled it that way he actually wants coaching now. So would you still be interested?” And I was like, “Yeah, of course.”

But I always tell parents, “The biggest bang for your bucks, the most sure investment is you. We can coach your teen all day long and if they don’t want anything to do with it, it isn’t going to benefit them. But I promise you, as a parent you have the power to be the change that you want to see in your teenager. And human beings, we’re herd animals. We can’t help it. We just follow the herd. And if you change as a parent I promise you, in some way that will positively impact your teenager.”

And one of the other examples I use, I like Tom Brady. I used to not like Tom Brady but as he just keeps on winning you’re just, you’re like, okay.

Jody: How can you not like Tom Brady? Come on.

Ben: Well, it was the Deflategate thing. I don’t know what his role was. But he’s still awesome. And I’ve heard stories about him where they’re losing a football game and he gets into the huddle and he has this maniacal grin. “Guys, we have them right where we want them.” And he’s just very complimentary to his team like, “Hey, guys, good job. You’ve done it enough to get us here.” And he’s very positive and helpful like, “Hey, this play, we’re losing now but I promise you, after this play, we’re going to win.”

And the whole team just gets pumped and inspired. And I think most parents show up as – I don’t know, some other quarterback that we don’t like. He’s like, “You guys suck and this is all your fault. And you’ve lost us the game. You’ve ruined us.” And when we realize human beings are herd animals, you get to choose how you show up in your herd, in your family. And you can be this other quarterback where everyone’s down and worried that, man, I’ve ruined my life, or I’m a mess, I’m broken.

Or we can be the Tom Brady that’s like, “No, no, nothing’s gone wrong, we have them exactly where we want them, guys, we’ve got this.” And when you show up with that mentality as a parent, one of the things that parents come to me all the time, they’re like, “I want my teen to have more confidence. If they had more confidence they’d get better grades.” And I’d be like, “Okay, how do you feel about your teen?” “Oh, well, I’m just so worried that they’re not getting enough grades, they’re doing whatever it is.”

And I’m like, “Okay, if you want your teen to have more confidence the only thing you can control is how much confidence you have in your teen. And if you want your teen to have more confidence you be that change that you want to see in your teenager. You start having confidence in your teen.” And I just, I want to help all parents realize nothing has gone wrong.

So just adopt that belief, trust it. Just be like, “Man, I heard this dude on Jody’s podcast, he lit a school bus on fire and he became a high school principal. And he completely turned the school around so you know what? I’m trusting, no matter what mistake my teen is making, they’ll be okay. That is part of who they were always meant to be.”

Jody: That’s right. Okay, so a couple of things I want to expand on that you touched on here that I think are really, really powerful. So are a lot of your clients, members of the church, or you get some of both?

Ben: I’m about half and half. I intentionally did not focus on members of the church. I get about half and half.

Jody: Yeah, okay. That’s fine, I just [inaudible].

Ben: But they all get my LDS teachings. We talk about Alma the Younger and Alma the Elder all the time. It doesn’t matter what faith you are.

Jody: I love it. It’s just a useful story, it doesn’t matter.

Ben: Yeah, it’s a powerful example, let’s just use it.

Jody: Yeah, okay. But regardless, so if I’m a parent who for whatever reason my value system says, “Smoking weed and drinking alcohol when you’re a 16 year old boy or whatever, not useful.” I think sometimes, Ben, and correct me if I’m wrong or tell me what your experience has been. But I think when we try to coach parents and say, “Listen, nothing’s gone wrong here. This is fine. We don’t need to freak out about this. We need to, rather than try to change your child”, which of course we want to guide the child, and hold the child accountable, and whatever else.

But rather than freak out about what’s going on with your child, we could just relax and decide this is okay. And I think that what people hear is that we’re saying you should abandon your value system, that it’s okay for people to behave or for teenagers to behave in these ways. And one of the ways I like to speak to it is, “Listen, I’m not saying that you would change the fact that you want your child to stop doing these things. I just don’t want you to need your child to stop doing these things.”

So in other words, you can hope for that, you can think that that would probably be better, that would be in their best interest, that would make life easier for everybody. But let’s not wait for it before we decide to relax and be rational, and logical, and trusting, and compassionate, and all the things that serve us. And so I like to sometimes lay it out that way. Of course you want that but right now I see that you need it. And we’ve got to clean that part up.

Ben: And I do want to say, this is where it does get muddy as parents. And it’s easy, I’ve been coaching parents for a long time and I have a different perspective. I got in trouble and I turned out okay. But as a parent myself and as a dad I know how hard it is to be like, “But no, these are our values, let’s go.” We all follow. And one of the things that I have found super beneficial when it comes to coaching, I love teaching the model.

And I love telling parents, “You own your results. You are 100% responsible for whatever results you’re creating. And you can continue believing that you know what, my values are the right values and you need to believe in my values and that’s fine. What result will that continue to create for you?” And as parents this is a process. I have some parents that I’ve worked with for a month and they’re like, “Oh my goodness, I get it, yeah, let’s go.”

And other parents that we’re months in and they’re like, “I think I’m starting to understand that. I think I’m starting to understand that if I continue to think this way, if I continue to believe that my values are right and theirs are wrong I’m going to keep fighting with my teenager.” And this is one of the things that I feel is the most powerful thing that I teach to parents, your teens are working within their model. They don’t believe in the model. They don’t even care about the model.

I can’t tell you how many teens are like, “Don’t teach me the model. I hate it. My parents use it.” I’m like, “Don’t worry, we’re going to talk about a different model that’s slightly different but the same”. But I always tell parents, “Your teen is functioning within their model. And the most powerful thing you can do as a parent is to trust that they own their results and that they’re in control. And they can just keep on banging their head against a wall, or smoking weed, or doing whatever it is. And you as a parent can trust that, hey, you own your results.

And if you ever want different results I trust that you can create those results.” And that’s kind of the example that I try and show parents. I was tired of the results in my life. I changed my life, I went on a mission but I still didn’t believe in myself. And I go through this even with weight loss or whatever else I’m working on. It’s kind of like I t have to just bang my head on the wall a few times and realize okay, yeah, I do control this result. And if I want a new result I have got to do some work up here in the model.

And just when you trust that your teenager, they don’t believe it now but they have the power to in the future and that’s all they need.

Jody: Well, and in the example you gave earlier where the parents got a handle on their own emotions, that’s when the child was like, “I kind of maybe am interested in some coaching.” It’s when we as parents are sort of adding to the problem, you might say. There’s this child who’s smoking weed, drinking and whatever, is struggling in certain ways. And like you said, creating in some ways a negative result for himself. And when mom and dad are also upset and mad, or worried, or whatever. Then that’s more problem on the child’s pile.

And so it’s easy to start blaming, well, the reason I feel so bad is because my mom is mad at me. Or the reason that everything is so hard, and these are unconscious thoughts. But I think that’s what we start doing is we start projecting our problems, we think that they’re coming from the people outside of us. But when the parents clean it up and the parents are just happier, more content, more peaceful then it becomes more obvious I think that I’m creating my own problem here. My mom’s not the problem anymore.

And I see this happen too, you kind of spoke to the – it’s a fascinating dynamic which is parents have to stop needing their child to be different in order to feel better. And this is true whether your child’s making bad choices, your child is getting picked on at school, your child is struggling with depression and anxiety, it all still applies.

Ben: Sexuality, that’s one of the huge ones [inaudible].

Jody: Sexuality, yes, all of that. Stop needing it in order for you to feel how you want to feel. Just do the work to feel how you want to feel even with your child as the same. And ironically enough sometimes on the other side of that, then the child does start to change. It’s just a fascinating, fascinating dynamic. The other thing you mentioned that I wanted to kind of tease out a little bit when you were talking about Tom Brady and the quarterback example. I love that example.

It’s almost like in our herds like you talked about, we’re herd creatures. Within the herd there are certain people that have a little bit more authority possibly, or whose opinions we trust a little bit more. And as parents that’s us usually, even if we think our kid doesn’t listen to us. We are the ones with a little bit more authority anyway.

Ben: And they can’t help it, they’re just patterning you.

Jody: That’s right. And so it’s important that we pay attention to the belief system we’re operating from because they will borrow our beliefs, or they have the potential to borrow our beliefs. When you described Tom Brady in the football game saying, “Listen, we’ve got them right where we want them. I know it looks like we’re losing but we’re right where we want to be.” He’s giving those other players the opportunity to borrow his belief. And he’s Tom Brady so they’re like, “Alright, if you say so.”

Ben: Why wouldn’t we? Let’s go.

Jody: Okay, we trust you. And that belief is so powerful. And as parents and a lot of parents tell me, I’m wondering if you hear this, they tell me, “No, no, I don’t tell my child that I’m worried.” I’m like, “No, they know, trust me, they know.”

Ben: And they maybe don’t know but subconsciously they’re just following your lead. And here’s the things about parenting, we all have the one experience, we’re like, I hated it when my mom did that. I will never do that. That’s one conscious thing that you can either decide that I am going to do or I’m not going to do that my parents did. And 99.9 of everything else you do is just subconscious, here’s what mom and dad did, here’s what I’ll do.

Jody: That’s fascinating. Or here’s what my understanding of what a mother or father should be, or should do and it’s unquestioned, unexamined, yeah, that’s an interesting way to think about it. Choose more intentionally who you want to be as a parent. I always use the example of the flight attendant. Our children are going to have turbulence in their lives. They’re going to create it or it’s just going to come along in other ways. And we’re the flight attendant, we’re the one kind of in charge, helping, serving drinks.

And when there’s turbulence if we’re like, “Oh no, what’s happening”, then all the passengers on the plane are also like, “Oh no, what’s happening?” But if we’re just calmly – I remember sitting in the back of the plane once and the flight attendant was sitting back there knitting. It was kind of a long flight and she was knitting. And there was all this turbulence and I was nervous. And I’d look at her and she just kept knitting. And I remember being like, okay, everything must be fine because she’s still knitting.

And that’s the thing is we have to be, if we’re freaking out it just feeds the idea to the child that something might be really wrong here. So yeah, I love that.

Ben: And I want to speak to something that you pointed out. So many parents are like, “Well, I don’t tell my teen I’m worried.” And it would be easy to be the flight attendant that’s behind the scenes in your mind like, oh, no, I hope we don’t crash. But on the outside I’m just knitting. This is where the power of thought work comes in. You can identify all of these thoughts, oh no, this isn’t working. Something’s broken. They have ruined their life. And you can question those. And you can choose new thoughts.

And so it’s kind of like the duck on the water, but underneath the feet are moving, keeping them up, keeping them moving. And that’s kind of what I feel makes a really good parent. We’re doing the work between our ears. We’re doing the work constantly. And that’s one of the things that I found in The Life Coach School podcast and all of these resources. I would get these aha moments and it all makes sense. And I’d be like, “Oh yeah.”

But then an hour later I’d go right back to being human and struggling with this. And that’s one of the things I remind parents like, “No, we still have the work to do. Let’s keep managing our minds.” And one of the most powerful things that I believe parents can do is identify what is outside my control and what is within my control? And once you identify that, just focus on what you can control. And do your own mental and emotional work to manage that. And just trust that everyone else will manage what’s within their control.

Jody: Yes, I love that. So I guess, let me just ask you kind of some final thought type questions here. And then we’ll make sure that people know how to reach out and contact you and contact Joey if they want help for their teenager, coaching for their teenager. So one of the things that converts highest on my Instagram page ever, my highest converting posts are when I give tips for parenting basically. Here’s how to help your kid who’s anxious. Or here’s how to guide a kid in this way.

And I have resisted sharing things like that very much for a long time because I’m such a believer in what you’re talking about which is, listen, your kid isn’t really the problem here. And we can’t coach kids against their will. Or we don’t need to fix your kid because actually nothing’s wrong with your kid, your child is supposed to make mistakes and go through life. And their brains are still developing and they’re still choosing, what are their values. Like you said, their values aren’t your values.

They don’t even know what their values are. They’re experimenting. They’re testing things out. They’re trying to figure out who they are in the world. So anyway, I’m a firm believer in that and I have been since the day I started my coaching practice because I work with parents too. But I don’t know, as time’s gone on I still believe that. I still am a firm believer in that. But I also think maybe there are though some tips, and advice, and tools, and tricks that could be helpful for parents.

I’m just wondering if you have anything, even just one strategy that you share to help parents as they navigate kids, whether it be disciplining kids or guiding kids through a challenge?

Ben: Yeah. So I’ll share some tips. Some people might be disappointed because they’re not focused on your teen. But when I started my podcast I kind of came across this idea, I was like, what if I just did a five day challenge for my first five episodes? I kind of wish I had all the knowledge I have now and could go back in time and kind of re-kick off this challenge. But the first one I still feel is amazing. Define your role and your purpose as a parent. And notice I didn’t say find your role. We’re not going on this exploration and looking for someone else to tell you. No, you define.

What is your role? What’s your job? What’s your purpose as a parent? And really on that day one challenge I invite people, do the thought work, do a brainstorm. Come up with a ton of possibilities. For me, I’m a teacher, I’m a coach. I can’t help myself. I am an advocate. I’m on my teen’s team. These are just my roles, my purpose. And once you do that brainstorm, the day two of the challenge is to come up with a 10 word vision statement. And write it on – so I have these little 3 x 5 cards that I just have all over my house where I just put them up.

Put your 10 word vision statement and put it up all over the house. This is amazing because your teenager’s going to see that and the next time you yell at your teenager, your teenager’s going to be like, “Mom, part of your purpose is to be kind and loving, this card says it.”

Jody: I was going to say, is that what it says, things like I am kind and loving? And what’s an example of what a vision statement might say?

Ben: Yes, I wish I would have – I have one in my room and you would think I would read enough to memorize it, but no.

Jody: You need to put it up in your house in more places.

Ben: Yeah. It’s just in the back of my mind. But mine is I’m a teacher, I teach with kindness and love. And that for me, I learned it as a principal. I was reading a book, I can’t even remember what it was called, this is an education book, it would be boring for all you guys. But the thing that it said was, your students, if they could do better, they would do better. And you can’t control them and all you can do is teach them. So as a principal I took the stance of, hey, if you treat someone at a job the way you just treated your teacher, you’ll probably get fired.

Hey, if you miss as much time at a job as you’ve missed school, you’ll probably get fired. And so I just teach. And it doesn’t matter how many times I have to teach, this is one of the things that I feel we get the example from Alma the Elder and Alma the Younger. And for those of you who are members you’re probably familiar with the story. Alma the Younger is a knucklehead, he sees an angel, he changes. But when he’s teaching one of his sons he kind of expounds a little. And he’s like, I was The Gall of bitterness, I want it to be destroyed.

And then I remembered the words of my father. And then he called upon Christ. And for me I’m like, “Okay, that is my job. I’m just going to teach and I’m going to do it with love.” And it helps me let go of how my teenager behaves, or reacts, or anything like that. And it’s just like, no, Ben, you have one job, to love and to teach. That would probably be my biggest tip.

Jody: I love that.

Ben: Just define your role and intentionally be that parent that you want to be.

Jody: I love that. It kind of reminds me of, I used to be a leadership coach in corporate and when I’m coaching parents I’m often using the example like you said, if this were a job this would be like this. And so as a parent you are somewhat a manager of your children in that you might have certain expectations and that there might be consequences for them not meeting those expectations. But ideally in both a job and a parenting situation as the manager we’re not getting emotional about it here. We’re not getting upset.

We’re not taking it personal. We’re not getting frustrated, making it all mean all sorts of things. The way I would coach managers is if you have an employee that’s not performing it’s really simple. Your job is to teach like you said, we want to help them improve their performance. So we need to be having discussions about how do I help you get better at your job? And do you have the tools you need? What’s going on? Why are you not performing? But then it’s, so just so you know this is the expectation. You need to perform. This is what performance means exactly. And if you don’t, this is the next step.

And there should be a disciplinary process that the employee chooses whether they’re going to step up or ultimately step out because their disciplinary process will lead them out the door eventually. Now, as parents obviously we’re not firing our kids. But it’s similar in that the teen is going to choose what they’re going to create in their life.

If we’re really clear like, “Listen, I love you, I want to help you. What’s going on? Do you need help? Let me tell you a great story. But ultimately this is what I expect. This is what’s okay in our home or not okay in our home. This is what I’m willing to give you money for or not give you money for etc. And so you choose. And I love you either way. But this is the consequence of this. This is where this path leads. This is where that path leads.” So it doesn’t have to be dramatic and emotional. And of course we’re going to have some clean pain, some disappointment and things like that.

But ultimately I sometimes have to stop with my kids and go, “Okay, this is the time when I need to be a loving manager.”

Ben: Yeah. And I always tell parents, “Take the scientific approach.” I have kind of changed my role, it’s a little bit different for each kid. I have a 14 year old who I just help coach his football team and he is very vocal and willing to tell everyone that he has the dumbest dad ever. But then I have a six year old who just a few months ago asked, he’s like, “Dad, who’s nicer, you or Jesus?” And he just think I’m amazing. And I realize, he has different needs from me than my older one does.

And my job is just to do my best to fulfil my role for them. And if they don’t like it, this is what I love about boundaries. So many parents think the boundaries are meant to manipulate and change their children. No, it’s just if you do this I will do this. And you can do whatever you want and this is how I will show up. I’ll love you. I’ll trust you.

One of the things that I would like to share, parents, we’ve talked about this over and over, they typically think my teen needs to change, they need to be different. Guys, I want to tell you, the only thing keeping you from the relationship that you want with your teenager is your own inner mental and emotional work. I promise you, that is the only thing. Your teen doesn’t need to change. You don’t even need to change. Just start managing your thoughts and your emotions and I promise you, you can have the relationship of your dreams with you teenager just as they are.

That’s one of the concepts I teach, connect with your teenager right where they are instead of over here where you wish they were. Because that fictional teenager doesn’t exist. But the one smoking pot, or having sex, or doing whatever it is you hate, they do exist. And if you think about it, that’s where Christ connects with us, right where we are, not at that perfect being that He knows we can be. It’s like, no, I went and paid for all of your sins, all of your pain, all your suffering, I experienced that just so I can meet you right there.

And that’s all we can do as parents. We can’t change them. And that’s all Christ can really do is just meet us there. So we get to just do that with our teens.

Jody: That is so beautiful. I want to end on that. How do people find you if they want some further help from you, Ben?

Ben: Yeah. So I have a podcast called IMPACT: Parenting with Perspective, that may or may not be changing to The Firmly Founded Parent. I don’t know. Joey and I, we’re combining everything. We’re taking over the world.

Jody: I love it.

Ben: One parent and teen at a time. And we have a membership for teenagers, Joey was on a few months ago, talked about that. And we also have The Firmly Founded Parent. You can find that at firmlyfounded.com/parent. And as a special gift because I love Jody and I love all of her listeners. Use the coupon code, Jody, and we will give you one month free, that includes all of our group coaching. We might do a book club coming up soon. I’m super excited about that. So we’ll see.

And it includes one 25 minute coaching session a month. So I love your outro, you guys, if you don’t have a coach, guys, if you still don’t have a coach, go take up The Firmly Founded Parent, come on.

Jody: Come on, get a coach. Okay, I love that so much. And I want to state for the record that this is the first time I have ever had a coupon code in my name. So I’m very flattered. I’m going to consider myself an influencer now. But also that I have no financial interest in anybody going and working with Ben. So don’t think that I’m promoting him because I want to make money off of you. I just love so much the work that you do. I know it’s so needed. I coach on this all the time. And I think especially we need more male life coaches. You’re just going to have a slightly different approach, different style.

And so I love the work that you and Joey are doing and thank you so much for coming on. So, firmlyfounded.com/parent.

Ben: IMPACT: Parenting with Perspective. It is a long name.

Jody: Yeah, possibly changing to Firmly Founded Parent but we’ll find you.

Ben: Yeah, we’ll see. You’ll just find me.

Jody: You’ll put in Ben Pugh, P-U-G-H and we’ll find you either way. So thank you so much, Ben.

Ben: Thank you. I have loved it. Thank you.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. And it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. And why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.

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