New Way: Recent Episodes
1001 New Worshiping Communities
A podcast exploring the connections between people, their communities, and the ways that context shapes faith
The Rev. Elizabeth Edman is an Episcopal priest and long-time activist who has an incredible story to tell of the significance of community, of family, and pride. She is also author of the moving book Queer Virtue. In part two of our conversation, we speak about the ethical and spiritual demands that queerness makes of those who claim and live that identity, and how might they inform and shape the ethical and spiritual demands of those of us who claim Christian identity; and why we might hold onto - and live into - hope in times like these.
The Rev. Elizabeth Edman is an Episcopal priest and long-time activist who has an incredible story to tell of the significance of community, of family, and pride. In part one of our conversation, we talk about what it was like for Liz growing up in Arkansas; her moving book Queer Virtue; and what a part of the Queer Community teaches her and can teach us about being a faithful Christian.
The Reverend Mindie Moore is planting a Midtown-based church in Indianapolis, Indiana. She's a preacher whose messages are full of love and practicality, and has a realistic understanding of why religion isn't something on everybody's top list all the time. In part two of our conversation, we talk about practicing presence; the spiritual discipline of worrying; and what's at stake for the church in America today.
The Reverend Mindie Moore is planting a Midtown-based church in Indianapolis, Indiana. She's a preacher whose messages are full of love and practicality, and has a realistic understanding of why religion isn't something on everybody's top list all the time. In part one of our conversation, we talk about the community she and others are contributing to in a funky, beloved part of town; and she also reminisces about the formation she experienced as a young child in a church that had very specific answers to her many probing questions.
Transcript
Sara Hayden: Mindie Moore, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Mindie Moore: Oh, well thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Sara: Yeah, it's good to be with a fellow hometown girl here in Indianapolis.
Mindie: Yes. It's very exciting.
Sara: You have a lot of aspects to who you are, to your identity. You're a pastor, you're a friend, you're a parent of two young children, a spouse, you're a church planter. What would you add to that list?
Mindie: Hmm. I think I would add to that list that I am a neighbor. That's been a piece of my identity. I've been exploring a lot more in this season and I'm sure we can talk a little bit more about that. But just trying to get to know the people around me. The place that we call home now, which is different than where we called home for four years. So it's kind of a new beginning and, and a new start. Also, just someone who's very curious about the world and the people that are here. Yesterday I found myself in a coffee shop just down the street and it was packed. The only space was at the community table, which just strikes fear into the hearts of all of us 'cause we're like, "We have to sit with strangers, what do we do?" (laughs). But I sat there for maybe an hour and just talked to the random people that came to that table and I thought, this is how I like to position myself in my life where I can just be open to conversation and just the stories of the people that I run into.
Sara: Hmm, that's beautiful. I, I think that that has a lot to do with the way that this new community that is emerging in the area in town we call Broad Ripple in Midtown. The way that you neighbor, the way that you position yourself, how has that shaped the early first six months to a year of this project?
Mindie: Yeah, well I've discovered that it is just a hyper-local community. So we lived, before we decided we were gonna do this thing of starting a new campus of our church, we lived a little further north outside of the city and it didn't really seem to matter kind of where you went or, or what you did or where you shopped or anything like that. And we knew pretty quickly that we needed to live in the community for this to be successful. And I think it was just a real eye-opener to see how important it is to sort of have like our lives centered around this geographical area because people are really proud of it and there is a lot of investment and a lot of love and just a lot of stuff that goes into this place.
Sara: So what three words or you know, a handful of words would you use to describe Broad Ripple for those who haven't been there or haven't heard of it?
Mindie: I would say artistic, changing and committed.
Sara: Hmm.
Mindie: Those feel like all very abstract words. So I don't know if that paints a great picture (laughs). But I think it is. I mean it's a community that was really built on a lot of artists and local investment, but it is changing so much. I mean they are building all these new apartments and condos and new businesses are coming in and I think that people are trying to figure out, you know, "Who are we?" But we are committed to this place. Like people come here and I feel like while there is that renter transient piece, there's a lot of people that have been here for a long time and this is their community and they're very invested in it and they love it a lot.
Sara: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Did you grow up in a community like Broad Ripple or?
Mindie: No, not at all. So I grew up in a mix of I would say suburbs and then living on five acres with no neighbors that you could see-
Sara: Wow.
Mindie: ... in the woods. And there was nothing out by where we lived. So very different.
Sara: Yeah. Do you think about the ways that your context has shaped your faith?
Mindie: Yeah. I think, you know, what I've noticed about my context, especially as it has shifted is I would say I moved from a community where Christianity was sort of an important piece of it. So the community that I lived in before, I would say almost all my neighbors would say, "Oh yeah, I'm a Christian." You know, that was just a piece of your identity, now, now what that meant.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: But it was definitely an identifier. Whereas here that's not an identifier at all. There's no pressure expectation that faith is the part of anyone's life. And for me it's kind of refreshing because it feels very authentic. It tells the truth. There's sort of no preconceived notion about what anyone believes.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: And so that creates that environment for curiosity again, like let me actually get to know your story and not assume that I know who you are, where you're coming from.
Sara: Yeah. If you feel like you were to have that question with a neighbor in Broad Ripple or anyone who's Christian self identifies as such, and pose that same conversation with someone who is, um, would not describe themselves as a person of faith, do you feel like you're getting different, it's significant answers from folks who would self-identify as Christian about what's important to them?
Mindie: Hmm.
Sara: Do they differ significantly from what folks would say who do not self-identify as Christian?
Mindie: Yeah, that is such a great question. I do not think it's that different.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: Honestly. I think that we all have these things that we're carrying around the things that, you know, worry us or excite us or sort of motivate us. And I think it's certainly shaped differently if we identify as people who are Christian or even just people of faith in general. But I'm not sure that it's really that different at its core.
Sara: I mean I love thinking about that. This is certainly based on my own anecdotal experience (laughs) and not on, um, research that I'm pointing to. But I love thinking about the fact that folks in the same neighborhood who are neighbors as you've evoked that relationship, share many of the same things in common. And I think for Christians that poses a lot of reflection-
Mindie: Mm-hmm.
Sara: ... for us to do about what it means to be Christian.
Mindie: Yeah. Yeah. I think it makes us really be challenged on is this an identity or is it a practice? Is it maybe somewhere in the middle of those two things? But I think as I've kind of gone on my own faith journey, that's been a place that I have asked a lot of questions on is it enough to just say, "You know, this is who I am, this is what I believe, this is the t-shirt I wear or the sticker I put in my car. Or is it really about how I live this out consistently even when it makes me or the people around me uncomfortable?"
Sara: Hmm. You had this beautiful evocative video that was used by the parent Church of St. Luke's, uh, which is a Methodist church, a large Methodist church in town. When you described your process of feeling this call to plant this new community. And I remember this is not verbatim I'm sure, but I was struck by how front and center the phrase deconstruction was located. It felt very honest to me. I immediately trusted what you were doing. And I think you said, "I have deconstructed like absolutely everything and pulled apart every aspect of what I thought I believed and in," you know, in the process of forming this community that that's front and center, where we're coming from in this. It's not just another church that's not thinking about deconstruction. I just left that... I'm curious if you, how you chose those words and why you chose them at that point as you introduced St. Luke's Midtown to the larger city.
Mindie: Mm-hmm. Well I think I'd answer that in a couple of different ways. One is pretty personal and one is, you know, thinking about who we're trying to connect with.
Sara: Mm-hmm.
Mindie: So maybe I'll start with who we're trying to connect with first. But I look at St. Luke's, the church that I serve at as a whole, as being for some people sort of a last stop. That's what we hear from a lot of folks that find us is that, you know, "I've been in this church or that church, I've been hurt for this reason or disillusioned for that and I've heard that maybe you're different here so I'm gonna try it, but if it doesn't work I think I'm done. Like I think this is the end of the line." And for me as a pastor, I just hold that as a pretty heavy weight because I think it matters. I think it matters that we have these places that we can express our faith and learn about our faith and live out our faith and have people around us to do that.
So I think I like just have this ridiculous love for the church that even though I know there's a hundred reasons not to, I just love it and I, I wanna see it do the best thing it can do. And so when I think about who we were trying to reach when we were coming here to our midtown location, I thought, there's so many people here who have said, "Church just really doesn't serve any kind of point for me." And in our community, in our context, a huge piece of that is LGBTQIA inclusion. And it's, you know, the church will tell me, "We love everyone, we welcome everyone," but then you tell my brother or my best friend that they're going to hell and I cannot, I cannot be aligned with that.
So I just wanted to create a space where, first of all we did affirm all people in a real and honest way. But also in a way to say like, "It's okay that you have a lot of questions. I might not actually have all the answers but you can hold those questions." Jamar Tisby has this quote and just as a, a plug for Jamar Tisby 'cause I love him, he wrote what I think is probably the most important book that came out in 2020, um, which is the Color of Compromise. And it traces how the white American church just fed the systemic racism machine. So if you have not read that book, you need to go get that book immediately and read it because it changed so much about what I know and believe and how I function as a pastor.
Sara: Hmm.
Mindie: But he has this great quote where he says that white evangelicals are the people who don't have any questions.
Sara: Hmm.
Mindie: And when I heard that quote, I thought about my own upbringing as a white evangelical and the fact that so much of what I was taught was this driving toward certainty, this driving toward answers, this driving toward eternal safety. And if we didn't find it, wow, we were gonna be in big trouble. But the problem with not having questions is that when the questions pop up, you don't have any space to do anything with them. So what I see happen to so many people is that their faith just breaks because they haven't been given tools. And so I just have a real strong desire to help people cultivate those tools.
Sara: Do you remember Mindie, one of the first times you began to ask questions about your faith or about what you assumed was in place and ordered?
Mindie: Mm-hmm. So I was in eighth grade and this memory is just burned into my brain forever. And I was in eighth grade in this very conservative Lutheran school. There were eight kids in my whole grade. One boy.
Sara: Wow.
Mindie: So if you wanna like understand me as a middle schooler, (laughs), there you go.
Sara: Wow.
Mindie: It was something else. But we had confirmation class with the senior pastor. So we'd all sit, sit around this table and we had this little yellow book that we'd read and we had Luther's catechism and we'd memorize that. And I remember we were talking about these ideas of you know, heaven and hell and salvation. And the way it was presented was that our [inaudible 00:12:10] of Lutheranism was the only one that had it right. So not even just like Lutherans but this group of Lutherans.
Sara: That's a niche position-
Mindie: It's very niche (laughs).
Sara: ... to enjoy (laughs).
Mindie: 'Cause it's not like a big group (laughs). It's pretty small. And so we were reading this and talking about it and in eighth grade I just remember sitting there feeling like all the alarm bells in my head were going off. And I didn't really understand why I didn't, I mean I was not like a super theological kid. But I remember asking the pastor, "But what about the Methodist?" And I think that's so funny 'cause I didn't know any Methodist but I was very concerned with them and now hearing Methodist clergy.
Sara: (laughs).
Mindie: So I guess it was ingrained from an early age. But I asked him that question and he just looked at me and said, "They go to hell."
Sara: Wow.
Mindie: "They don't have it right. They do not know the truth." And I just felt like for me that was the first moment of disconnection like, "Wait, that doesn't work for me." Like I knew when he said it that I didn't agree.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: And then as I kept going on in my faith, like there were more of those moments. Like I didn't stay with that church. I went to a big, fun megachurch that was totally different and it was great and it nurtured a lot about my faith. But eventually there came to that point where there were questions that felt like they shouldn't have had an easy answer but we really wanted them to.
Sara: Do you have an image or were, that describes what that voice was for you in those moments where you, things were not squaring up for you?
Mindie: I would say the image in my head or maybe just the feeling behind it was that this isn't big enough.
Sara: Mm-hmm.
Mindie: I probably wouldn't have used this in eighth grade, but now I would say, you know, there's not enough people invited to this table.
Sara: How has this experience in your childhood and being nurtured in one particular direction, a niche direction in the church and beginning to ask questions, beginning to step outside of that intentionally made you the pastor that you are today?
Mindie: I think it has given me a lot of room for a lot of different stories. I feel pretty good about the whole Jesus thing. Which I mean we could talk more about that-
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: ... and deconstruction and how that's possible. But I feel pretty good about what I believe. Like I don't know that my beliefs have even like super soft edges to them. But I think what I do have is just an understanding that those beliefs can express themselves in so many different ways. And because I've had one very specific lived experience, I just have to listen because there is, so, there are so many more ways that God is gonna work than I can even start to think of. I mean I think the place that I really learned that was after college, I moved to Chicago for a year 'cause my now husband had a year left in school and I didn't wanna live at home and work at retail. So I was like, "I'm gonna go do something cool and live in Chicago." And I ended up working at this Puerto Rican Pentecostal church, which how, I don't know, it's the Holy Spirit.
Sara: Oh [inaudible 00:15:15] yeah.
Mindie: That's what God does. And so I worked with this group of people who just, their lived experience looks 0% like mine.
Sara: In what ways Mindie?
Mindie: Well, I think, you know, first of all very white, very suburban (laughs) woman growing up in a church where there was no speaking in tongues, there was none of that. But then there's deeper narratives like, oh people are poor 'cause it's their fault or police brutality is just something that the liberals want you to believe. And yet then I met people who were like, "No, this happened to me. This is my story." And it was just story after story and it was people who were growing up in poverty and finding a way and had this amazing faith and like their faith didn't include, "I have four bedrooms on a cul-de-sac and three car." Like that wasn't what faith meant. It was something totally different. And it, it really rewired my thinking of like, what does it mean for God to bless someone, for someone to be loved by God, for someone to follow God faithfully and do it in a way that looks nothing like my life has looked?
Sara: Yeah. I mean earlier in the conversation you evoke a phrase eternal safety. And that sends in to me a lot of contrast with the experience of the folks that you got to know in Chicago.
Mindie: Mm-hmm.
Sara: You know, were we taught to assume safety in our faith early on in a particular context as the destination or as a, you know, you're in the way when things are looking up for you in terms of finances, acquisition and feeling at home in a suburban white context. But did that shift the way you understood safety or the priorities of the Christian faith?
Mindie: Yeah. Oh, for sure. And you know, Jesus says, "If you wanna follow me, you're gonna lose your life. And what does it profit someone to gain the whole world and lose their soul?" And I just think that is such a, oh it's a hard question. It's like, "Jesus, why do you have to ask me that? I don't want to answer that. I would like all the things please (laughs) and I would like to be comfortable." But it's not the life that I think Jesus calls us to. And I'm not trying to paint like a false picture of, "Okay, if you're suffering you're so holy." 'Cause I think that's-
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: ... a weird thing that we do with like-
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: ... poor people and stuff. But what I do think is very real is that when we actually have to depend on God and when we actually have to look at more than like the stuff that we have to see what makes like a whole rich life. Like when we look to things like community and interdependence, that's really different than the narrative that I was brought up with, which is like you just look out for yourself, follow the rules, you're gonna get to heaven one day, it's all gonna be okay. And I just think Jesus calls us to something that's a lot more compelling than that.
Sara: Yeah. Those who are listening to the podcast, depending on what work you do throughout the week and who you intersect with, you might be surprised at this question, but I would say Mindie, having heard your preaching, which is lovely and powerful, just you're an amazing preacher.
Mindie: Thank you.
Sara: I was struck that this is gonna, I'm probably shouldn't phrase it this way. You talk about the bible a lot in your sermon, Mindie (laughs). Again, this probably sounds like a silly question from one angle. But I think for a lot of us who have taken deconstruction seriously and are in ministry with folks who have had to step away from the faith that they were maybe forced into, that alienated them, uh, misidentified them, the Bible is a complex thing but you lean right in.
Mindie: Yeah. Oh Sarah, I love this question. It's my favorite thing because I do, I talk about the Bible a lot. I love the Bible. I'm a super Bible nerd. I mean it's a lot. I love the Old Testament. People don't know what to do with that. It freaks people out. It's funny, I feel like the more I have deconstructed my faith and the more I've learned about scripture, it's like scripture is so good and it's so beautiful and it's so challenging and it's so complex. And if we let it be all those things, I think there's so much invitation to it. I think where we get in trouble and where I see a lot of people sort of jump into the deconstruction pool from is that they've been told like, "This book is all the facts-
Sara: Mm-hmm
Mindie: ... it's 100% true. It's historically accurate beginning to end."
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: The point is we just get so caught up in is every word in this book exactly how it happened. And then if you pull one string from that, everyone starts getting very upset and afraid. And I mean I've had people tell me as my faith has evolved and changed, like, "Well, you don't honor scripture, you don't hold scripture in a very high place." I'm like, "No, I love scripture. I just read it really differently." Because I think even when you look at Jesus ministry, the thing he said all the time was, "You've heard it said but."
Sara: Hmm.
Mindie: And Jesus knew his scripture. Like he wasn't just pulling this stuff out of the air.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: He was quoting scripture and he was saying, but maybe context is changing. Maybe there's another way to think about what God is saying and maybe we're living in a different time. And the fact that so many Christians are afraid to do that, it just makes me sad. Because I think like this is a living, breathing thing, the Bible, it is not meant to just be like a one time stamp and this is how you live your life. And we know that because I mean, hello, read the Old Testament laws (laughs), like we have no problem throwing those out. But then there's some of these things that we just hold onto. And I think like let's ask questions about power and motivation and how we read this and why some of these things have become so important to some groups.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: And so I just think the Bible, it's a really exciting book and it's God's story and it, it tells a story of a God that loves some people that were really hard to love sometimes.
Sara: Yeah.
Mindie: And I think if God could love them, then God can surely love me and you and all of us. And that, there's a lot of hope to that.
Sara: Yeah. I find it hopeful that you're drawn to that.
Pastor (Common Ground NYC), church planter (Kindom Collective), and practitioner of the Circle Way, Chantilly Mers, embodies reverence - in everything from her writings, to singing, to conversations with strangers.
In part two of our conversation, our modern ecological crisis; attending to the soil that will cultivate deep reverence; and the power of slowing down.
Pastor (Common Ground NYC), church planter (Kindom Collective), and practitioner of the Circle Way, Chantilly Mers, embodies reverence - in everything from her writings, to singing, to conversations with strangers.
In part one, Chantilly offers some generous and helpful insights about what we gain when we attend to what we cannot take for granted; and how the gentle experience of being held by our mother - nature - is a wondrous place to begin.
Noel Musicha (who also goes by Noxy) and Jeremiah Lester have been working with neighbors in Linda Vista, California, for the past six years to start a church called Ebenezer where the goal is to be a people's cathedral: a church of the community, by the community, and for the community. In part one of our conversation, we explore the call to make a commitment; and how a chance encounter in Noel’s homeland of Malawi planted the seeds for a friendship and partnership with others thousands of miles away.
Pastor Rich Hong is a former synthetic organic chemist and groundbreaking software engineer turned pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Englewood in New Jersey, where the goals are “to live boldly; share boundlessly; grow community; and build God's world.”
In this episode, we talk about an expansive understanding of mission; worship that prioritizes participation over prescription; and what Rich’s encounter with a neon Mickey Mouse might teach us about living our values out loud.
Pastor Rich Hong is a former synthetic organic chemist and groundbreaking software engineer turned pastor of Englewood Presbyterian Church in New Jersey, where the goals are “to live boldly; share boundlessly; grow community; and build God's world.”
In part one, we talk about the difference between the church that strives to be the hero of people's lives and the one that can become a guide for people's own heroic journeys.
Gina Brown is the curator of The Faith Studio, where the guiding scripture is, “for where two or three are gathered together because they are mine, I will be right there among them.”
In this episode, we go deep on memories and experiences of communities that encouraged us to be ourselves; and some that asked us to leave parts of ourselves behind.
Gina Brown is the curator of The Faith Studio, where the guiding scripture is, “for where two or three are gathered together because they are mine, I will be right there among them.”
In part one of conversation, we discuss how our communities of faith can encourage people to show up in their own vernacular, to share about their experiences of God in conversation with others, and to grow as a result. Gina's reverence for the mysteries of faith, and her own open heartedness toward God and her neighbors, create a truly special kind of community that makes spaces for awareness of the Divine to grow.
Jon Mathieu serves as the community engagement editor of the Christian Century and pastors a fresh new church called Harbor Online, which started last year. As Harbor’s full name implies, this church gathers - well - not in person, like many churches, but Thursday nights, dialogically on Zoom. In part two of our conversation, faith deconstruction - and reconstruction; the importance of an online worshiping community for those who do not find acceptance where they live; and what Jon's beard says about Jon's approach to life and ministry.
Jon Mathieu serves as the community engagement editor of the Christian Century and pastors a fresh new church called Harbor Online, which started last year. As Harbor’s full name implies, this church gathers - well - not in person, like many churches, but Thursday nights, dialogically on Zoom. In part one of our conversation, we explore the journey and the practices behind this unique gathering today. We also hear Jon's own story about his move away from leadership in a conservative evangelical church - a departure and deconstruction that, he says, brought him closer to Jesus than ever before.
We continue our conversation with noted author and activist Brian McLaren. In this episode: white supremacy, the cost of following Jesus, and our faith; and why Brian asked the question Do I Stay Christian? in his latest book.
In part one of our conversation with author and activist Brian McLaren, we talk about being brave and the spiritual practices that sustain bravery. And Brian unpacks his view that Christianity is best understood not as a system, but as a story; and what kind of a difference could that understanding make in our institutions, our communities, and in our personal lives.
This year, our annual Christmas episode features highlights from the last two years, including guests Jeff Eddings, Becca Blake, Ray Bowden, Chris Romine, Carlton Johnson, and Samuel Henry.
Minha convidada é Fabiana Araujo. A experiência dela como música e arquiteta influenciaram a atuação dela no ministério. Em sua adolescência em Itararé, no estado de São Paulo, ela orava para desenvolver um interesse por Deus ou pela Igreja, mas Fabiana e o marido (Xechel) passaram os últimos vinte anos atuando no ministério ao redor de seu país, o Brasil. Agora, eles estão nos Estados Unidos, na cidade de Atlanta, que fica no estado da Georgia, onde ela está realizando uma residência pelo movimento 1001 Novas Comunidades de Adoração. A clareza e as ideias da Fabiana, não só sobre o ministério, mas sobre a vida de forma geral, são um presente para quem tem o prazer de conhecê-la.
Neste episódio, que será a segunda parte da nossa conversa, batemos um papo sobre a grata surpresa de uma congregação irmã que recebeu uma nova igreja nascente de braços abertos; conversamos sobre como a arquitetura capacitou a Fabiana para encarar o ministério como uma série de projetos; e descobrimos uma regra não dita da hospitalidade brasileira.
Fabiana Araujo’s backgrounds as a musician and architect have shaped her approach to ministry. Once the teenager from Itararé, São Paulo, who reluctantly prayed to have an interest in God or the church, Fabiana and her husband have spent the last twenty years ministering throughout their home country of Brazil. They are now in the United States, in Atlanta, Georgia, where she serves as a resident of the 1001 new worshiping communities movement. Her clarity and insights – not only about ministry, but about life in general – have been a gift to those of us who know her.
In this episode, part one of our conversation, Fabiana begins to tell the story of her life, and the significant moments that demonstrate the power of compassion; and how God's mystery has worked to connect her with others again and again.
Minha convidada é Fabiana Araujo. A experiência dela como música e arquiteta influenciaram a atuação dela no ministério. Em sua adolescência em Itararé, no estado de São Paulo, ela orava para desenvolver um interesse por Deus ou pela Igreja, mas Fabiana e o marido (Xechel) passaram os últimos vinte anos atuando no ministério ao redor de seu país, o Brasil. Agora, eles estão nos Estados Unidos, na cidade de Atlanta, que fica no estado da Georgia, onde ela está realizando uma residência pelo movimento 1001 Novas Comunidades de Adoração. A clareza e as ideias da Fabiana, não só sobre o ministério, mas sobre a vida de forma geral, são um presente para quem tem o prazer de conhecê-la.
Neste episódio, que será a primeira parte da nossa conversa, a Fabiana começará a contar a história da vida dela, falará dos momentos importantes que demonstram o poder da compaixão e compartilhará como Deus atuou várias vezes de formas misteriosas para conectá-la com outras pessoas.
Fabiana Araujo’s backgrounds as a musician and architect have shaped her approach to ministry. Once the teenager from Itararé, São Paulo, who reluctantly prayed to have an interest in God or the church, Fabiana and her husband have spent the last twenty years ministering throughout their home country of Brazil. They are now in the United States, in Atlanta, Georgia, where she serves as a resident of the 1001 new worshiping communities movement. Her clarity and insights – not only about ministry, but about life in general – have been a gift to those of us who know her.
In this episode, part one of our conversation, Fabiana begins to tell the story of her life, and the significant moments that demonstrate the power of compassion; and how God's mystery has worked to connect her with others again and again.
Rob Douglas is the founding pastor of Lightshine Church in Thousand Oaks, California. He’s one of the nicest people you'll ever meet, and is the author of the new book The Missional Disciple-Making Handbook.
In part two, we talk about Rob's new book, the church’s call to “innovations of mercy”, and Rob's advice for people taking on something new. And what does a former handbell choir member have in common with someone who spent his teenage years surfing? It's Christ, obviously! And our mutual affection for the innovation Jesus calls us to.
Rob Douglas is the founding pastor of Lightshine Church in Thousand Oaks, California. He’s a surfer and a sports fan, and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. He's also the author of the new book The Missional Disciple-Making Handbook.
In part one, we talk about our hypothetical sports podcast called Sportsball!, and we discuss that singular hour of the week that often takes place on Sunday mornings at 11am. But we also dream about how we can spend the 167 hours that remain each week, and the link between all the time that's given to us.
Author and spiritual director Therese Taylor-Stinson is a member of the Shalem Society for Contemplative Leadership. She is also the founding managing member of the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, and the editor of the award-winning collection on the emancipative properties of holy listening: Ain't Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around. In part two, we talk about her organization the Spiritual Directors of Color Network; the balance between ego and selflessness; and spiritual direction as sacred activism.
Spiritual director and guide Therese Taylor-Stinson is a member of the Shalem Society for Contemplative Leadership. She is also the founding managing member of the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, and the editor of the award-winning collection on the emancipative properties of holy listening: Ain't Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around. In this episode, we talk about how Therese shares time with her own Soul Circle; and we discuss her forthcoming book on Harriet Tubman, and the critical relationship between contemplation and action.
Gina Yeager-Buckley is the Mission Associate for Christian Formation of Youth of the Presbyterian Mission Agency. She's a brave and enthusiastic advocate for young people in the church who looks for ways to encourage congregations to be shaped by the faith and life the young people in their midst. In part two of our conversation, we talk about the inborn activism of Generation Z; and the ways that blesses and shapes us.
Gina Yeager-Buckley is the Mission Associate for Christian Formation of Youth of the Presbyterian Mission Agency. She's a brave and enthusiastic advocate for young people in the church who looks for ways to encourage congregations to be shaped by the faith and life the young people in their midst. On this episode, we talk about Generation Z; discuss possibly the sweetest thing ever to happen on Tik-Tok; and how listening to one another’s stories sets the foundation for a joyful, brave, and just future.
The Rev. Chantilly Mers-Pickett was born on the island of Maui and now co-leads The Common Ground in New York City. She's a musician, artist, and facilitator of The Circle Way, and has some really profound things to say about indigenous spirituality and the way of Jesus.
The Rev. Chantilly Mers-Pickett was born on the island of Maui and now co-leads The Common Ground in New York City. She's a musician, artist, and facilitator of The Circle Way, and has some really profound things to say about indigenous spirituality and the way of Jesus.
Noted ethicist and theologian Jonathan Tran is the Associate Professor of Philosophical Theology and Chair of Religion at Baylor University.
Noted ethicist and theologian Jonathan Tran is the Associate Professor of Philosophical Theology and Chair of Religion at Baylor University.
Pastor Zac Morton grew up hanging out among the blackberry brambles of rural West Virginia and Pennsylvania accompanying his grandparents to bluegrass festivals. While they played, he played among the wild earth. He has since returned to the region, where he pastors First Presbyterian Church of Morgantown in West Virginia.
Pastor Zac Morton grew up hanging out among the blackberry brambles of rural West Virginia and Pennsylvania accompanying his grandparents to bluegrass festivals. While they played, he played among the wild earth. He has since returned to the region, where he pastors First Presbyterian Church of Morgantown in West Virginia.
Rola Al Ashkar is a pastor and New Worshiping Community leader living in Sacramento, California. In part one of Sara’s conversation with Rola, she describes the Holy Week atmosphere of her native Lebanon; sings for us the beautiful chant of Mary Magdalene at the empty tomb; and together, they discuss the precious mystery of our faith and imagine what might have happened to Jesus and his followers when resurrection was the furthest thing from their minds.
Rola Al Ashkar is a pastor and New Worshiping Community leader living in Sacramento, California. In part one of Sara’s conversation with Rola, she describes the Holy Week atmosphere of her native Lebanon; sings for us the beautiful chant of Mary Magdalene at the empty tomb; and together, they discuss the precious mystery of our faith and imagine what might have happened to Jesus and his followers when resurrection was the furthest thing from their minds.
So Jung Kim is a South Korean theologian who has lived and studied many years in the United States. She is an Associate for Theology for the Presbyterian Mission Agency and hosts the vlog God-talk.
So Jung Kim is a South Korean theologian who has lived and studied many years in the United States. She is an Associate for Theology for the Presbyterian Mission Agency and hosts the vlog God-talk.
Theologian and pastor Claudio Carvalhaes is the brilliant liturgical artist and professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. He is so full of life, creativity, and love for the world. Being around him is profoundly transformative. In part two, he and host Sara Hayden talk about prayer as a movement, a rhythm, a force that forms and shapes us and, through us, our communities; what it means to develop a holistic view of the world and all the creatures, great and small, within it; and about praying with worms.
Theologian and pastor Claudio Carvalhaes is the brilliant liturgical artist and professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. He is so full of life, creativity, and love for the world. Being around him is profoundly transformative. In part one, he and host Sara Hayden an examine the way the desert maximizes our own current life predicaments, and how all the spaces in the world that might feel like traps could be doorways into our true selves.
The Rev. Dr. Bill Brown is the William Marcellus McPheeters Professor of Old Testament at Columbia Theological Seminary. His books include numerous commentaries on the Psalms and other Old Testament literature. He has an abiding interest in the use of scripture in the life of the church and the world, particularly in the context of ecology and justice.
Listen to part two of the conversation, all about Job, where there is so much to unpack: a calamity, a tidy worldview falling apart, Job’s request for God to stand trial as defendant to Job’s complaint, and the strange creatures God introduces back to Job in response.
The Rev. Dr. Bill Brown is the William Marcellus McPheeters Professor of Old Testament at Columbia Theological Seminary. His books include numerous commentaries on the Psalms and other Old Testament literature. He has an abiding interest in the use of scripture in the life of the church and the world, particularly in the context of ecology and justice.
Listen to part one of the conversation, where host Sara Hayden admits all the things she'd rather pay attention to than God; Bill and Sara talk about how long it takes for God's people to live into God's freedom; and Bill reminds us that the real power of the wisdom corpus lies and its capacity to evoke a sense of wonder.
The Rev. Karen Rohrer is a theologian and Director of the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary’s Church Planting Initiative where she teaches and mentors fortunate cohorts on how to be wise, thoughtful, and relevant leaders.
The Rev. Karen Rohrer is a theologian and Director of the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary’s Church Planting Initiative where she teaches and mentors fortunate cohorts on how to be wise, thoughtful, and relevant leaders.
The Rev. Carlton D. Johnson is an elder of the First Afrikan Presbyterian Church (Lithonia, Georgia), and heads up the Vital Congregations initiative of the Presbyterian Mission Agency. A native of Atlanta, throughout his life he has maintained an intimate concern for the disenfranchised among the people of God; especially young African-American males. He has not only worked diligently in the outreach ministries of the church, but has also given himself to mentorship with the United States National Guard Youth Challenge Academy.
The Rev. Carlton D. Johnson is an elder of the First Afrikan Presbyterian Church (Lithonia, Georgia), and heads up the Vital Congregations initiative of the Presbyterian Mission Agency. A native of Atlanta, throughout his life he has maintained an intimate concern for the disenfranchised among the people of God; especially young African-American males. He has not only worked diligently in the outreach ministries of the church, but has also given himself to mentorship with the United States National Guard Youth Challenge Academy.
Host Sara Hayden is joined by a very special guest, her own first-born son, Samuel, who is seven years old this Christmas. Sam’s three-year old brother Ben, who makes a brief appearance.
The Rev. Becca Blake is the co-founder of Beacon Church in the Kensington/Fishtown neighborhood of Philadelphia as well as a pastor at Pine Street Presbyterian Church.
Rabbi Elizabeth Bonney-Cohen is co-convener of a new congregation known as Base BSTN. A convert to Judaism, she serves as the Assistant Rabbi and Director of Innovation at Congregation Kehillath Israel in Brookline, MA. Elizabeth was ordained from Hebrew College and completed her Master of Divinity degree as Yale Divinity School’s William Sloane Coffin, Jr., scholar.
Rabbi Elizabeth Bonney-Cohen is co-convener of a new congregation known as Base BSTN. A convert to Judaism, she serves as the Assistant Rabbi and Director of Innovation at Congregation Kehillath Israel in Brookline, MA. Elizabeth was ordained from Hebrew College and completed her Master of Divinity degree as Yale Divinity School’s William Sloane Coffin, Jr., scholar.
Ashley Nora is a self-taught, incredibly talented painter, muralist, and mother. She recently joined seventeen other Indianapolis-based Black artists to create the Black Lives Matter mural on Indiana Avenue in downtown Indianapolis.
Ashley Nora is a self-taught, incredibly talented painter, muralist, and mother. She recently joined seventeen other Indianapolis-based Black artists to create the Black Lives Matter mural on Indiana Avenue in downtown Indianapolis.
The Rev. Miriam Mauritzen is pastor of Serious JuJu in Kalispell, Montana. Serious JuJu is a New Worshiping Community of young people - mostly skateboarders - many who live life on the edge of support and trauma.
DeAmon Harges has one of the best titles in the church or academy: Roving Listener. He is on the faculty of the Asset Based Community Development Institute, and is one of the most influential people in the city of Indianapolis, where he neighbors, works, and lives.
The Rev. Libby Tedder Hugus is pastor and organizer of The Table, a New Worshiping Community in Casper, Wyoming. She is also a wife, mama, coach, and the co-author of the book Marks of the Missional Church.
The Rev. Laura Mariko Cheifetz is a writer, thought leader, educator, and ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). She is also the Assistant Dean of Admission, Vocation, and Stewardship at Vanderbilt Divinity School.
The Rev. Laura Mariko Cheifetz is a writer, thought leader, educator, and ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). She is also the Assistant Dean of Admission, Vocation, and Stewardship at Vanderbilt Divinity School.
Kosha Tucker is a Staff Attorney with the ACLU of Georgia’s Smart Justice Campaign, an initiative to end mass incarceration and reduce racial disparities in the criminal justice system. Prior to joining the ACLU, Kosha worked for six years as an Attorney at the Dekalb County Public Defender’s Office in Georgia, where she represented children and adults charged with misdemeanor and felony offenses.
Kosha Tucker is a Staff Attorney with the ACLU of Georgia’s Smart Justice Campaign, an initiative to end mass incarceration and reduce racial disparities in the criminal justice system. Prior to joining the ACLU, Kosha worked for six years as an Attorney at the Dekalb County Public Defender’s Office in Georgia, where she represented children and adults charged with misdemeanor and felony offenses.
Zeena Regis is a Decatur, Georgia, based hospice chaplain and grief recovery specialist. Zeena is an expert at holding space at the end of life, one of the most sacred aspects of spiritual care and most life-giving and transformative ways of pastoring somebody. In our conversation we talk about being a black woman in chaplaincy, racial inequality in the healthcare system, and what allyship looks like.
The Rev. Jake Medcalf is no stranger to new ways of being church. Even in this pandemic, the ministry he is a part of continues to adapt and find new ways to support and join neighbors in building meaningful connections that, in some cases, quite literally have saved lived. He is a founder of Urban Life Ministries of San Diego, and a coach within our 1001 New Worshiping Communities Movement. In 2015, he moved to Heyward, California, to serve as pastor of First Presbyterian Church there, with a laser focus call to guiding the ministry into a multi-ethnic, multi-generational, multi-lingual community that strives to live out the radical mission of Jesus in the Eden neighborhood of the Bay Area.
Jake Medcalf is no stranger to new ways of being church. Even in this pandemic, the ministry he is a part of continues to adapt and find new ways to support and join neighbors in building meaningful connections that, in some cases, quite literally have saved lived. He is a founder of Urban Life Ministries of San Diego, and a coach within our 1001 New Worshiping Communities Movement. In 2015, he moved to Heyward, California, to serve as pastor of First Presbyterian Church there, with a laser focus call to guiding the ministry into a multi-ethnic, multi-generational, multi-lingual community that strives to live out the radical mission of Jesus in the Eden neighborhood of the Bay Area.
The Rev. Gad Mpoyo was born and raised in the Democratic Republic of Congo. He is the Pastor and founder of Shalom International Ministry in Clarkston, Georgia, perhaps the most ethnically diverse city in the United States. He also serves as Southeast Associate for New Worshiping Communities.
The Rev. Emily Scott has pastored not one, but two new churches: St. Lydia’s Dinner Church in Brooklyn, and now The Church of Dreams and Visions in Baltimore. A Lutheran (ELCA) pastor, Emily believes that Christian practice holds out rich possibilities that call us to reach out across boundaries in love, to learn through discomfort, and to build relationships that bring God’s realm close.
Emily’s book, For All Who Hunger: Searching for Communion in a Shattered World, will be released on May 12.
A native of Finland and now resident of Denver, Colorado, Kaisa Stenberg-Lee is the founder of Kutsu Companions. Kutsu is a Finnish word meaning both “invitation” and “call”. Through her work, she practices spiritual direction - with both adults and children - that focuses on the invitation to be curious about our prayers, our spirituality, and God.
A native of Finland and now resident of Denver, Colorado, Kaisa Stenberg-Lee is the founder of Kutsu Companions. Kutsu is a Finnish word meaning both “invitation” and “call”. Through her work, she practices spiritual direction - with both adults and children - that focuses on the invitation to be curious about our prayers, our spirituality, and God.
Diane Anderson started Faith Works in her home town of Paterson, New Jersey. This ministry is as much at home outside the walls of the church at it is on the streets of the city.
The Rev. Dr. Joanna M. Adams is a leader and thinker known for building bridges of understanding within and beyond communities of faith. Joanna is a mentor and pastor to the City of Atlanta where she has served as a guiding light to multiple congregations. One of America’s most beloved preachers, Joanna has preached at the National Cathedral, the Memorial Church of Harvard University, and the Chautauqua Institution. In her ministry, Joanna has been involved in starting more than a dozen life-changing non-profit organizations.
The Rev. Layne Brubaker is the founder of Hagar’s Community Church, a congregation of the Olympia Presbytery. Hagar’s Church is located on the inside of the Washington Corrections Center for Women, the largest women’s correctional facility in the state.
Aisha Brooks-Lytle is the Executive Presbyter of the Presbytery of Greater Atlanta. She is a pastor, vocalist, and the founder of The Common Place ministry, based in her beloved Philadelphia.
Aisha Brooks-Lytle is the Executive Presbyter of the Presbytery of Greater Atlanta. She is a pastor, vocalist, and the founder of The Common Place ministry, based in her beloved Philadelphia.
The Rev. Jeff Eddings is the co-founder of the Hot Metal Bridge Faith Community and the Coaching Associate for 1001 New Worshiping Communities.
The Rev. Carroll Jenkins and Kearni Warren go way back. Kearni is the founder of the Caregivers Society, a New Worshiping Community. Kearni’s friend and mentor, the Rev., was ordained during the Civil Rights Movement, and now pastors T. M. Thomas Memorial Church in Chester, Pennsylvania, on the West Side of Philadelphia.
Dr. Elizabeth Anderson has emerged as one of the most influential philosophers of our time. Dr. Anderson is the John Dewey Professor of Philosophy and Women’s Studies at the University of Michigan. She is widely admired for fostering dialogue between disciplines and possesses a unique ability to understand and appreciate contributions from different fields. Her work was featured in the New Year’s Eve New Yorker article “The Philosopher Defining Equality”.
Several years ago, the Rev. Nancy Graham Ogne began to organize a new church in the new development of Lake Nona, Florida, not far from Orlando. Today, Hope Presbyterian Church at Lake Nona is a thriving, missional community that builds up people’s capacities to make incremental change for good.
The Reverends Jeya and Daniel So are husband and wife as well as the co-pastors of Anchor City Church in San Diego, California.
The Reverends Jeya and Daniel So are husband and wife as well as the co-pastors of Anchor City Church in San Diego, California.
The Rev. Shawna Bowman is a pastor and a theological and liturgical visual artist. She pastors a quirky and radically gracious community called Friendship Presbyterian Church that spent several years convening in the Norwood Park METRA Station of Chicago. Shawna is also a co-founder of Creation Lab, an art collective and a working studio space at the intersection of creativity, spirituality, and prophetic imagination.
DeAmon Harges has one of the best titles in the church and academy: “The Roving Listener”. As a faculty member of the Asset Based Community Development Institute, DeAmon reminds institutions, associations and individuals that communities have the power to heal themselves from within.
Nick Pickrell is the organizer of the Open Table, a new worshiping community in his hometown of Kansas City. The Open Table’s mission is to be a place of reconciliation in a city divided. Their recent gatherings have centered around topics like Cultivating Authenticity, Sex and the Sacred, White Fragility, and a Palm Sunday experience as Political Theater. Nick is also an actor and long-time participate in the Catholic Worker Movement. He co-curates the Open Table with Wendie Brockhaus.
Dr. Angela Boyd Wyatt is the founder of the Spiritual Wellness Center, which explores learning that engages the mind, heart and soul to help people live out their truest and highest expression of themselves and to discover purpose and meaning for life’s spiritual journey. Angela’s interests include spiritual development, evolving relationships with the sacred, and servant leadership.
Dr. Bethany McKinney Fox is the co-founder of the Beloved Everybody Church, an ability-inclusive church in Los Angeles. It celebrated its one- year anniversary this fall. She also serves asDirector of Spiritual Formation for Cyclical LA and is she is the author of the new book, Disability and the Way of Jesus (IVP Academic).
The Rev. Abby King-Kaiser is an artist and new worshiping community leader living in her hometown of Cincinnati, Ohio. At Xavier University, she is the Associate Director of the Dorothy Day Center for Faith and Justice, and also directs Common Ground, the Protestant worshipping community at Xavier. Last year she began convening a gathering of friends and colleagues on Sunday mornings for Church-Ish.
The Rev. Gad Mpoyo was born and raised in the Democratic Republic of Congo. He is the Pastor and founder of Shalom International Ministry, which is based in Clarkston, perhaps the most ethnically diverse city in the United States.
Vera White served as the National Coordinator of the 1001 New Worshiping Communities movement until her retirement in 2018. One addition to her job description turned into an opportunity to lead a nationwide initiative that continues to shape in profound ways the way the church looks in the 21st century.