Curious Humans with Jonny Miller: Recent Episodes
Jonny Miller
In our productivity obsessed culture we struggle to justify investing time or money into something that doesnโt have a defined outcomeโthis podcast is a journey to turn the lens of curiosity back on itself and nudge the rest of us 'grown-ups' to take their curiosity more seriously.
When I first started this podcast, I had Derek Sivers in mind as the archetypal curious human โ and to this day, I think of him as one of the most interesting and provocative philosophers of life. His career path involved joining the circus as a ringleader, then becoming a professional musician and touring, building a company and selling it for $22 million dollars, then giving most of the money away to charity, then becoming a TED speaker and author... to now where he's a minimalist living in New Zealand as a full-time dad.
In this conversation, you can expect to learn the following:
๐๏ธ His unexpected love affair with Dubai
๐ค Why nothing you believe is actually true
๐ How he journals to find sanity for himself
๐ค What he's learned about negotiation skills
๐ ๏ธ Why he created a 'Making Room' in his house
๐บ๏ธ How it's possible to have too much freedom in your life
๐จโ๐ฆ Why he feels that his son is his best friend and soulmate
Timestamps
[00:08:56] Derek didn't have much curiosity until later in life.
[00:12:20] Rebellious streak seeks balance in all situations.
[00:18:55] Having total freedom can feel disorienting.
[00:25:17] Choose independence, then commit for best results.
[00:29:14] We don't really know why we do things.
[00:35:00] Journaling: Derek's way to process thoughts and find clarity.
[00:43:32] Brain awake, busy day of writing.
[00:49:48] Sister's chaotic household convinced me: no kids.
[00:54:45] Choosing mice for breeding: defying expectations.
[00:57:08] Teach kids to talk confidently and be makers.
[01:05:56] Money obsession feels like a mental disorder.
[01:10:52] The Red Cross can't do much, donate wisely.
[01:17:38] Negotiate Anything by Herb Cohen is a book full of relatable stories that emphasize the idea that everything is negotiable. The author, a professional negotiator, shares his experiences and challenges the notion of non-negotiable things. It's a thought-provoking read that sticks with you.
[01:21:05] Book: "You Can Negotiate Anything" - rating: 10/10. Talks about realizing power in any situation. Prisoner example shows hidden power. Violence comes from feeling powerless. Realize your power in any situation. Must-read.
[01:27:15] Movies portrayed sex as something men want, women don't.
[01:32:45] Dubai is a fascinating, diverse and foreigner-filled place.
[01:38:45] Python: a newfound love, Dubai.
[01:44:21] Aspiration: be read even after death.
Official Links
โ๏ธ Email Derek personally here: derek@sivers.org
๐ Derek's Book Reviews
๐โโ๏ธ Derek's /now page
๐ Buy his masterpiece How to Live (don't buy on Amazon!)
Connect + Follow Jonny:
๐ฆ Follow on Twitter @jonnym1ller
๐ Subscribe to the Curious Humans Newsletter
๐ซ Learn more about Nervous System Mastery
๐โโ๏ธ Join Five to Thrive โ a zero-cost educational email series.
Episode Sponsors
๐ฉธ Inside Tracker โ One of the things I've changed my mind on in the past year is the value of getting blood panels taken prophylactically (ideally every six months, according to Dr. Peter Attia) rather than waiting until you have a health issue. Inside Tracker recently added hormone testing alongside a bunch of other important biomarkers that aren't included in traditional blood panels (ApoB, for example). Despite generally feeling great, my most recent set of results showed that I have some work to do to reduce levels of inflammation, and I'll be following some of their dietary + supplement recommendations to address this asap. So I highly recommend making this something you make time for at least once or twice yearly. โSave 20% here
๐ฅถ The Cold Plunge โ I reached out to the founder of the plunge, Ryan after hearing his powerful โstory on the Danny Miranda podcast. I've shared how getting in icy cold water every day helped me to move through intense grief, and taught me what it meant to surrender. These days I use their plunge every, single, day. It's like a high-stakes meditationโa mirror into my own internal state. The Plunge team have done a phenomenal job architecting what I consider as the world's best cold plunge (it doesn't get grimy like the converted chest freezers that I used to use). For optimal health benefits, I recommend deliberate cold exposure for 11 minutes per week total. Save $150 with the code CURIOUS. โLearn moreโ.
๐ซ Nervous System Mastery โ this is my flagship 5-week boot camp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our fourth cohort will be running in September 2023 ~ and applications are currently open. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything that I've learned in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols. Previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their sleep and quality of relationships but also tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives. We've had over 500 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth โ so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com
~~
Further Ways to Support the Podcast:
๐๏ธ I use Riverside to record all of my podcast conversations (it's so much better than zoom for podcasting!)
๐ง I also use Transistor to host this podcast, it's fricking awesome, and I would highly recommend.
๐ RaOptics make the world's best Blue Blockers โ I wear these anytime I'm out of the house after dark, and it makes a huge difference!
๐ค I use AI wizardry from Castmagic to help with each episode show-notes + timestamps
๐น Want to create a Hollywood-quality home studio? Get in touch with Kevin Shen here & save $500 with code JONNYSENT500OFF
Today's guest is Danielโwho goes by the name of 'Grimhood' on Twitter. I've been a subscriber to his Patreon account for a while and was so impressed with his immensely well-researched and in-depth that blended his knowledge of pharmacology with indigenous systems of medicine.
In this conversation, we unpack a handful of these protocols that he shares, including a deep dive on all things Magnesium, why so many of us are deficient in it, why you're almost certainly not getting enough and how to dose correctly. Then we dive into his protocol for dealing with OCD and anxiety, the importance of seeing sunrise and sunset daily to set the circadian rhythm and much more.
Just a heads up that this episode does get into the weeds with a lot of detail, but if you'd like the summary of Daniel's protocols, I recommend finding his Patreon page linked in the show notes and finding his in-depth resources there.
๐ Links
๐ Find Grimhood on Patreon
๐ฌ Follow Grimhood on Twitter @Grimhood
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // NSM
This episode of Curious Humans is brought to by the one and only 'Nervous System Mastery' ~ which is my flagship 5-week Bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed Protocols to Cultivate Greater Agency Over Your Physical, Mental & Emotional State.
The 2023 cohort will be running in April. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort.
This NSM curriculum represents my attempt to distil everything that I've learnt in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing & previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their sleep and quality of relationships but also tap into deeper states of joy, clarity and confidence in their lives.
We've already had over 300 alumni, and places will be limited ~ so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join next year's cohort over at nsmastery.com
Today's guest is Erwan Le Corre.
Erwan is many things, including the founder of MovNat ~ which is a synthesis of his passion for physical competency with his love of movement in nature. More recently, Erwan also became a US national static breath hold record holder.
In this conversation, we talk about what he describes as the challenges of 'Hamster fitness' & movement poverty predicament and some of his ideas for what he describes quite brilliantly as Human Zoo counter-measures. We also dive into (pun not intended) some of the benefits of practising breath-holding, increasing your CO2 tolerance ~ and how he can hold his breath for over 8 minutes.
๐ Official Links
๐ซ Erwan's latest Breath hold work training program
๐ธ Erwan on Instagram @erwanlecorre
๐ณ Learn more about his MovNat training
๐ฌ Connect with Erwan on Twitter @erwanlecoore
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // NSM
This episode of Curious Humans is brought to by the one and only 'Nervous System Mastery' ~ which is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed Protocols to Cultivate Greater Agency Over Your Physical, Mental & Emotional State.
The 2022 cohort will be running this November ~ and applications are now officially open until midnight on October 29th. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort.
We've already had over 250 applications, and places will be limited ~ so if you're intrigued at all you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com
Chris Sparks is a one-of-a-kind human; he's a retired professional poker pro who was once ranked one of the top 20 players in the world.
But in recent years, he has applied himself to coaching and running workshops on decision-making, systems thinking, and peak performance. And as you'll hear in this conversation, he is not only brilliant but also wise.
Before we hit record, I said to Chris let's record a masterclass in mindset for staying calm and making good decisions in high-stress environments ~ and he didn't really disappoint.
Our conversation ranged from talking about tools he used to stay calm or shift his state during high-stakes poker games and how he eliminated mental distractions in critical moments. He shared some meta-principles that he learnt through poker but applies to life more broadlyโas well as how his approach and philosophy around productivity have shifted over the years.
I deeply enjoyed this conversation with Chris, and I have a sense that you will too. I'll also mention that Chris has what he calls a 'performance assessment', which I've linked in the show notes ~ that provides a series of excellent questions to reflect on.
๐ LINKS
๐ Take the Forcing Function Self-Assessment
๐ฌ Find Chris on Twitter @SparksRemarks
๐๏ธ Listen to Chris' Podcast
๐จโ๐ Signup for Chris' Feb 2023 courseon 'Team Performance Training'
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // NSM
This episode of Curious Humans is brought to by the one and only 'Nervous System Mastery' ~ which is my flagship 5-week Bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed Protocols to Cultivate Greater Agency Over Your Physical, Mental & Emotional State.
The 2022 cohort will be running this November ~ and applications are now officially open until midnight on October 28th. My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort.
This NSM curriculum represents my attempt to distil everything that I've learnt in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing & previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their sleep and quality of relationships but also tap into deeper states of joy, clarity and confidence in their lives.
We've already had over 250 applications, and places will be limited ~ so if you're intrigued at all, you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at nsmastery.com
Aaron is a pioneering manual therapist and movement coach, founder and creator of the Align Method.
I'm currently looking at Aaron's book (The Align Method) & it's one of the books that has most impacted my relationship with not just fitness and movement, but a new philosophy of seeing the world as a playground and the fact that I'm recording this whilst squatting ~ is in part thanks to the wisdom and research that he shares.
This is one hell of a fun conversation packed with big ideas and super practical takeaways ~ we range from talking about the value of play and emotional fluidity ~ to post-ejaculatory experiences and a mini-masterclass in how to leverage your physiology & posture to change how you feel.
โI believe the way to obtain true, optimal health is through aligning our mind, body, and movement. The fundamentals are simple and Iโm here to help.โ
โ Aaron Alexander~~~
๐ Resources & Links to Aaron's Work
๐ Follow Aaron over on Instagram @alignpodcast
๐๏ธ Listen to his phenomenal podcast 'Align Podcast' ๐ Grab a copy of Aaron's book The Align Method ๐จโ๐ Explore Aaron's upcoming 6-week course
~~~
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // Nervous System Mastery
This episode of Curious Humans is brought to you by the one and only 'Nervous System Mastery' ~ which is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed Protocols to Cultivate Greater Agency Over Your Physical, Mental & Emotional State.
The 2022 cohort will be running this November ~, and my sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This NSM curriculum represents my attempt to distil everything that I've learnt in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing & previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their sleep and quality of relationships but also tap into deeper states of joy, clarity and confidence in their lives.
So, with all that said, I'm proud of the way this is coming together ~ and it's also by far the best way you can help to support this podcast ~ so if you're intrigued at all you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at >> nsmastery.com <<
โNervous System Mastery is the most powerful thing I've ever done for personal growth. I had previously explored breathwork, meditation, therapy, and other approaches, but always felt like something was missing..." โ Sam Sager, NSM Alumni
~~~~~~
It's always fun to have conversations with friends and this one, in particular, has been several years in the making. If you're interested in meditation, breathwork or getting more done with more joy then this episode is a must-listen.
Some of the themes we unpack include: what it means to 'expand your awareness', exploring the space and freedom between stimulus + response, what it means practically to 'escape grind mode' and what we both mean when we talk about increasing our sense of 'aliveness'.
~~~~~~
๐ Resources & Links
๐ Follow Michael over onTwitter@m_ashcroft ๐จโ๐ Learn more about Michael's Course atexpandingawareness.org โ๏ธ Read Michael's Essays on Every
~~~~~~
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // NSM
This episode of Curious Humans is brought to you by the one and only 'Nervous System Mastery' ~ which is my flagship 5-week bootcamp designed to equip you with evidence-backed Protocols to Cultivate Greater Agency Over Your Physical, Mental & Emotional State.
The 2022 cohort will be running this November ~, and my sense is that if this conversation resonates with you then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This NSM curriculum represents my attempt to distil everything that I've learnt in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing & previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their sleep and quality of relationships but also tap into deeper states of joy, clarity and confidence in their lives.
So, with all that said, I'm proud of the way this is coming together ~ and it's also by far the best way you can help to support this podcast ~ so if you're intrigued at all you can find more details and apply to join this year's cohort over at >> nsmastery.com <<
โNervous System Mastery is the most powerful thing I've ever done for personal growth. I had previously explored breathwork, meditation, therapy, and other approaches, but always felt like something was missing..." โ Sam Sager, NSM Alumni
In this episode, Edward Dangerfield and I do a deep dive on a new modality of breathwork, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Facilitated Breath Repatterning ~ or FBR for short ~ will be globally recognised in 4-5 years' time and that the research that is beginning here in Bali will go on to make some significant discoveries about the connection between breathing patterns + patterns of behaviour.
As you'll hear in this conversation, what I believe is truly unique about this mode of breathwork ~ is that it is both scientific in its approach, involving the practitioner 'reading the breath' of the client, and then making facilitations that often elicit profound shifts. I'll also add that my capacity to hold myself through intense experiences and feel comfortable expressing emotions has been transformed by this work.
Since recording the initial conversation with Ed (link) I completed a 400hr training with him and the team here in Bali. But despite having literally hundreds of hours of conversations with him, I learnt so many new things myself from this conversation.
~~~~~~
Some of the highlights were:
๐ต๏ธโโ๏ธ Ed describes what I consider to be his superpower for paying attention to subtle cues that he's noticing and tracking in clients ~ like a real-life Sherlock Holmes ~ everything from their posture to their tone of voice and the words they choose ~ which then allows him to make generally highly accurate hypotheses about their breathing patterns and how this shows up in the lives.
๐ซ He walks us through an imaginary breath translation ~ so that you as a listener will get a sense for this art of reading and interpreting the language of breath. I also loved hearing him articulate the connection between capacity for dynamic breathing and dynamic thinking ~ the very tangible effects on health and lived experience of having Maladaptive breathing patterns.
๐ And finally some of his bold ideas for the broader impact that this emerging modality of FBR might have ~ running large-scale studies, working with leaders of organisations to move them from moving overachievers to high achievers & an idea to design a breathwork-specific wearable device that could enable self-guided journeys to be run safely.
~~~~~~
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // NSM
This episode of Curious Humans is once again sponsored by Nervous System Mastery ~ and the second experimental cohort that I will be running later this year. If you are even curious enough about this work to begin listening to a podcast episode titled 'New Frontiers of Breathwork' ~ then my sense is that you would be a great fit for the upcoming cohort of Nervous System Mastery that I'll be running in the Autumn (or Fall as Americans like to say) later this year.
This is where I'm pouring the majority of my creative energy these days and I'm proud of the way it's coming together. You can find more details about the unique curriculum here >> nsmastery.com <<
โNervous System Mastery is the most powerful thing I've ever done for personal growth. I had previously explored breathwork, meditation, therapy, and other approaches, but always felt like something was missing..." โ Sam Sager, NSM Alumni
~~~~~~
๐ Resources & Links
๐๏ธ Listen to my first conversation with Ed back in 2019 (link)
๐ 'Nurturing Resilience' by Kathy Kain (link)
๐ธ Ed's Instagram: @edwarddangerfield
๐ฅ๏ธ Breathwork Bali Website (link)
๐๏ธ Related conversation on Functional Breathwork with Conni Biesalski (link)
๐ Recommended International Breathwork Practitioners
SF/Bay Area โ Jonny Miller (link)
Bali โ Multiple Practitioners (link)
London โ Jamie Clements (link)
๐๏ธ Episode Overview
You might have come across Eric through his award-winning podcast โThe One You Feedโ where he has interviewed hundreds of the wisest and most inspiring humans on the planet.
He's also a father, serial entrepreneur, behaviour coach, and author on a quest to understand how we might live more intentional lives.
And we get into the impact that these conversations has had on his life and perspective over the last decade, but we begin with the chapters of his life before the podcast โ at age 24 Eric was living out the back of a van, spending $300 a day on his heroin addiction and up to 50 years in jail.
We dive into this transformational journey of recoveryโthe gifts and challenges inherent in the AA program as well as his thoughts on what created the conditions for both his addiction and the sobriety that followed.
It was interesting to see how Eric and I share a mutual fascination for questions around how to take insights and apply them to everyday lifeโand the parallels between the Spiritual Habits group program that Eric hosts with the work that Iโve been involved with around resilience and researching the nervous system.
๐ซ Episode Sponsor // Nervous System Mastery
This podcast has its first official sponsor โ itโs a 5-week program called Nervous System Mastery designed and hosted by myself. The course is designed to share research-backed protocols to cultivate calm, agency + resilience in everyday life. We've had incredible feedback from the first version that ran in October last year, one previous student wrote to me and said: โNervous system mastery was supportive, grounding, expansive, interesting, delivered with integrity and true passion. Science + practical evidence.โ
Building and teaching this course is now my primary obsession and the income that comes from this course, directly enables me to put my time & money into these episodes. If this sounds interesting at all, you can find more details here >> nsmastery.com <<
๐ Show Notes + Links
๐๏ธ Subscribe to the 'One You Feed' podcast on Spotify ๐จโ๐ Learn more about Eric's 8-week Spiritual Habits Program
๐ฅ๏ธ Watch his superbTEDx talk on the battle of changing your behaviour
Paul and I first met 3 years ago at an event in Portlandโhe had recently left his job in corporate consulting and we bonded over how lost we'd both felt at times.
Later that week I gave him a copy of 'The Three Marriages' a book by David Whyte where he talks about the Pathless Path that is required for anyone looking to do or create something original.
Fast-forward to today and Paul has just published his first book โ Called the Pathless Path โ which is his roadmap of sorts for those of us who might have had the boldness to quit the default path & taking an experiment-based approach to figure out how to live well.
Some of the themes we dive into are:
๐ค How he has been exploring the magic of non-doing
โ Some of the most powerful questions he uses during curiosity conversations with others who are looking to take the leap.
๐ข How to navigate the painful reality that family + friends might not understand his decisions to walk away from a successful career.
๐ Some of the things he believes hold most people back from living more intentionally & the big breakthrough moment he experienced in the midst of writing his book.
This episode is also sponsored by Nervous System Mastery, a 5-week Bootcamp led by Jonny Millerโapplications for the Spring Cohort will be opening up soon so if you're curious to nerd out on research-backed protocols for emotional self-regulation + resilience you can find more details at nsmastery.com
๐ Links
๐ Get your copy of The Pathless Path ๐ฅ๏ธ Subscribe to Paul's excellent newsletter and listen to his podcast.
๐ฆ Connect with Paul and say hi on Twitter
๐๏ธ Episode Overview
I'm thrilled to bring you this conversation with philosopher, writer & activist Charles Eisenstein. For those of you who aren't familiar with Charles' workโit's no exaggeration to say that his ideas contained in his books and writing have shaped my personal worldview more than any other author I can think of.
What I appreciated about this conversation was his deep presence and at times a refusal to answer my question because he felt like there was a deeper and more real question beneath the surface. You can feel the urgency in the tone of his voice, the deep sense of how much is wrong with the world and his sincere desire to not bypass this deep discomfort.
I've re-listened to this conversation several times myself and some of what really stood out for me was:
๐ฝ Our mutual sense of confinement, wrongness and alienation that we felt growing up in middle-class education โ he described how he wrestled with this question of โwho marooned me on planet crazyโ.
๐ His earnestness to be "fully available" and to be in service to life and his belief that itโs actually technically 'easy' to heal the planet, but our consciousness is getting in the way
๐ We also touched in on the state of the world and how he believed that grief for the dying world is actually what is required for the world not to die.
๐ Making the case for getting truly serious about being selfish & why laziness is a message that points towards how our life energy wishes to be expressed.
๐ Why Dr. Seuss' Myth of the Grinch is so relevant for our times and what we can learn from seeing today's world through a more mythic lens.
๐ซ Apply for Nervous System Mastery // Cohort #2
This episode is also sponsored by meโor more specifically the upcoming Nervous System Mastery training that I've poured my heart and soul into. Applications will be opening up soon so if you're curious to nerd out on research-backed protocols for emotional self-regulation + resilience you can find more details at >> nsmastery.com <<
๐ Show Notes + Links
๐ Subscribeto Charles' superb substack newsletter
๐ Explore his thought-provoking essays from the past decade
๐ Two of Charles' Books: A More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible & The Ascent of Humanity
๐จโ๐ His self-paced online courses(the gift economy + exploration of masculinity are highly recommended)
๐น Curated youtube videos containing some of his biggest ideas
๐ Two Books Mentioned by Charles
๐ Charles favourite story growing up: The Phantom Tollbooth by Norman Juster
๐ A myth for our times: How the Grinch Stole Christmas byDr. Seuss
This is a really unique episodeโMichael King has been a mentor of mine and dear friend for nearly four years now. If it weren't for some of our conversations I'm not sure that Curious Humans would even exist, at least not in the form that it does today.
I find some of his perspectives and approaches to meditation and life so refreshing and my goal for this conversation was really to tease out some of the ideas and radical concepts that he has shared with me privately over the years.
Some of the questions we explored:
๐ฌ What is the case for living life from a place of ease rather than over-efforting โ which is something that I've wrestled with for a long time, as well as how our experience of reality is shaped by who we are and our beliefs.
๐ง Some common meditation myths and pitfalls that he sees with meditators with varying levels of experience as well as how he recommends navigating the landscape of meditation and the vast number of options and traditions and approaches out there.
๐ And finally, he also shares a really powerful framework for feeling into and moving through any challenging emotional experience or resistance.
Michael is also launching the third iteration of his Meditation Teacher Training early next March which I was a student in two years ago. What I learnt in that training profoundly shaped not only my work as a founder coach but also deepened my own practice and my relationship to my own mind and emotional landscape. So if training to become a meditation teacher or deepening your own practice is something that calls to you, I would absolutely recommend getting in touch with Michael. He's generously offering Curious Humans, listeners, $200 off the 2022 training โ just mention Curious Humans when you reach out.
๐ Links
๐ง Check out theMeditation Teacher Training 2022 ๐ Find Michael on Instagram @kingsmeditationandmentoring
I'm really thrilled to be bringing you this philosophical deep dive with truly I think one of the most radical and thoughtful thinkers of our generation.
Dr. Zachary Stein is a co-founder of The Consilience Projectโwhich publishes novel research and explores questions surrounding global risk mitigation and existential threats facing humanity. He is the Academic Director Center for Integral Wisdom and the author of 'Education in a Time Between Worlds' โ which I've personally gifted myself to many friends and shifted how I think about the future of schooling.
In this conversation, we cover some truly fascinating territory, because of his multi-disciplinary approach Zak has a truly unique perspective on some of the biggest questions of our time.
To give you a sense of what to expect in this conversation:
๐ We began with a model of what it means to move into the perspective of post-traumatic growth...
๐ฑ He shared a thought experiment of 'Nous Arc' which asks the question of what seeds of ideas could be stored such that they could reboot human civilisation.
๐ซ We talk about the role of nervous system regulation in models of adult development
๐ Zak's diagnosis of 'Global Intimacy Disorder' and re-imagining what it means to be human and his work to start the conversation for a new kind of global philosophy called cosmo-erotic humanism.
What questions come alive in your mind? How might you see yourself contributing? Drop me a note on twitter... and finally, if this conversation resonates, do consider sharing a link with a friend who might also appreciate it.
๐ Links
Zak's Homepage // zakstein.org
The Consilience Project // consilienceproject.org
Nous Arc // Zak's talk at the centre for integral wisdom
Joe Hudson is many things โ he's a Venture Capitalist and renowned executive coach, but beyond that, he is a rare example of someone who in my perspective has accessed some profound truths about the human experience and is putting himself out there into the world helping others to find greater joy and ease in their lives.
โ We begin with his perspective on wonder and explore what makes for the capacity to ask transformational questions.
๐คฉ He then shares his VIEW frameworkโwhich stands for Vulnerability, Impartiality, Empathy & Wonderโand how life-changing it can be if we're able to truly inhabit these states of being.
๐ฅ We both then begin to unpacking the concept of emotional fluidity, why it's very different from emotional management and dive into specific examples of unclogging the tube of anger, Joe's process for dissolving shame (in which I become the guinea pig and it gets real for a few minutes)
Joe also mentions his experiences doing naked breathwork, the one-two punch tactic he used to use to get out of speeding tickets, why selfishness is a word used to get children to do what their parents want and why you have to allow your heart to break a little to increase your capacity to love.
I was quite taken aback by how many of my recent Nervous System Mastery students had taken Joe's 'Connection Course' and how tremendously impactful they shared it had been in their journeys of self-exploration and finding greater depths of emotional maturity.
I rarely (if ever) promote other courses, but having listened to Joe's 'Art of Accomplishment' podcast episodes, heard from several of his students whose lives have been transformed by his work as well as the depth of our recent conversation I believe his work and methodology deserves to be shared more widely.
So to this end, I'd like to make the case for at the very least considering the 'Connection Course' that he's offeringโit's very reasonably priced ($300) and uses a โcohort of twoโ learning format that combines the power of cohort-based learning with the flexibility of a self-paced course.
It's an opportunity to access workshops usually only reserved for elite execs and combines 20 years of Joe's research into dozens of spiritual traditions + robust psychological frameworks, also backed by the more recent findings from neurological research.
"This course is a unique approach to relationships with yourself and others. It dramatically changes your ability to accomplish what you want in your life with ease and joy. It will help you examine the way that you show up at work and in your personal life, all through training a mindset that leads to more connection and more satisfying relationships."
So there you have itโa wholehearted recommendation to first listen to the podcast conversation with Joe and if the themes of emotional exploration resonate, then definitely check out the amazing podcast and self-paced connection course linked below for a deeper dive.
You can use the code CURIOUS to save 10% on Joe's course here <<
Links to Joe & the Art of Accomplishment
๐จโ๐ Art of Accomplishment Connection Course (link)
๐๏ธ Art of Accomplishment Podcast (link)
๐ธ Art of Accomplishment on Instagram (link)
๐ฌ Joe Hudson on Twitter (link)
In this episode, I speak with my good Twitter friend Malcolm Ocean. Malcolm is many many things, but first and foremost I consider him to be not only relentlessly curious but also prolific in sharing his practical philosophy mostly through the medium of thoughtful Twitter threads.
I predicted that the experience of listening to this conversation might be a little like the feeling of being trapped inside a pinball machine bouncing between unrelated topics... but in fact, what unfolded was a really satisfying dance around parallel threads which centred around our mutual interest of human attention and perception โ and how these theories have deep practical value our daily life.
Some of the topics we danced around include:
โ The value and art of holding questions, and sitting with deep uncertainty.
๐ฅ His case for an aliveness-based productivity system and discussing why to consider even setting goals in the first place.
๐ง How the barely known ideas contained in 'Perceptual Control Theory' have shifted his outlook on life and how these theories connect to the work of Iain McGilchrist's findings on the differences between our left and right brain hemispheres.
๐ We talked about our 'domino memes' as a way of attempting to articulate the different levels of impact that we're hoping to make in the world and I also really appreciated his framing of what he calls 'negative effort' which is a way of saying the creative work that we can't not do โ and ideas for how we might incentivise this on a wider scale.
Relevant Links
๐ Find Malcolm on Twitter: @malcolm_ocean(and his thread collection) ๐ Read his blog: malcolmocean.com
โ Ribbonfarm blog post on 'Questions are not just for asking'
๐ง His superb Divided Brain Twitter primer๐ฒ His 'Domino Meme' (and my domino meme)
๐ A cheeky bootleg copy of 'Making Sense of Behaviour' (the actual book is out of print)
Kelly Wilde is an artist, podcaster, performer, meditation mentor and poet who has been exploring the intersections of soul explorations, creative work and rewilding. She also happens to be my wife, and this episode fell on our 18-month anniversary โ itโs a particularly juicy conversation and easily the most personal conversation that I've aired to date.
In this conversation, we dance around a range of personal topics including:
๐ชจ Reflections on the last couple of decades of her lifeโfrom existential reckonings, identity crises, multiple career paths and rock-bottom moments that she has been throughโand how these challenges have given way to a deeper clarity, knowing herself more intimately and beginning the process of what she describes as rewilding the feral aspects of her psyche.
๐ง This led into the story of our experience at a 10-day meditation retreat we attended in Mexico last year, and how reflecting on death led to us getting married a mere two weeks later.
โฃ๏ธ We also talk about our reflections on the value we found from working with a couple's therapist, early on in our marriage and how being aware of what she calls the skeleton woman archetype has helped us to navigate rocky moments along the way in our partnership.
I hope you enjoy this intimate conversation with the love of my life, Kelly Wilde.
Where to find Kelly on the Interwebs:
๐ธ Instagram: @kellywildexo ๐๏ธ Podcast: Wild on Purpose ๐ฉโ๐จ Website: kellywilde.art
Conni and I have collaborated on a number of projects over the years and we've both followed remarkably similar paths from the world of entrepreneurship into the world of breathwork & nervous system science.
In this conversation, Conni starts off by sharing some of her personal journey, her various heartbreaks and compartmentalisation of her sexuality that led her from being a very successful travel writer into being a prolific creator in the world of personal development and ultimately to the work she's doing now as a breath coach. From there we pretty rapidly dive go into the nitty-gritty aspects of breathwork and unpack some of the nervous system neurobiology that we've both been learning... including:
๐ฌ๏ธ How some of the functional breathing practices have impacted her life and the lives of the clients she works with, what it means to have a dysregulated breathing pattern and how to begin correcting this.
๐ซ She goes on a myth-busting roll, talking about common misperceptions around the role of CO2, we both share our concerns with Wim Hof training and riff on the importance of honing our sixth sense of 'interception'.
๐ง How helpful it has been for us to gain an embodied understanding of the difference between our 'Ventral' & 'Dorsal' branches of the parasympathetic nervous system.
๐คฏ This episode might feel like a lot of information if you're just hearing this for the first time, but I encourage you to stay with it my hope is that there will be some real nuggets for everyone listening regardless of how much knowledge you currently have.
โ โ โ โ โ
๐จโ๐ Nervous System Mastery Online Bootcamp
Regain control of your body + mind โ cultivating effortless calm & sustained focus. Upon completion of this intensive 5-week Bootcamp you will be equipped with science-backed protocols & have built your own personalised "Human Operating System" โ enabling you to regulate stress in real-time, rewire breathing patterns & reset your nervous system.
Dates: Oct 17 โ Nov 22Learn more here: nsmastery.com
โ โ โ โ โ
๐โโ๏ธ Where to find Conni Online
๐ฅ๏ธ Website + blog: conni.me ๐ Her awesome newsletter:flow + wonder ๐๏ธ Conni's 'CREATE' podcast ๐ธ Instagram: @breathwork.alchemy ๐ฆ Twitter @connibe
In one of the longest and most wide-ranging episodes to date, this conversation is with filmmaker, poet, relationship coach and utterly unique human being Alice Frankโwho is here as she says to proudly "eff the ineffable".
Her book 'My Real Name Is You' has been loved by Eckhart Tolle said 'My favourite poem I ever heard' and Jason Mraz who shared: 'Her words are alive the same way notation can fly off a page and become sweet music.'
I'm slightly at a loss for words attempting to describe the ground that we covered but I will add that she is one of the most present people I've ever met and has a truly astounding capacity to articulate the great mysteries of life.
Here's a sampling of where our conversation led:
โจ Her spiritual awakening that lasted for a decade and what her experience was of being no-one (and the challenges of living so deeply in the present)... followed by what she described as her 'breakup with god'.
๐ Why we lose touch with our sense of play and why we should strive to 'relieve reality of its seriousness'. I loved that one of her favourite mantras is 'Can you imagine if it mattered? Can you imagine if it mattered?'
โค๏ธ Her journey from the depths of polyamory to more recently getting married, reframing un-conditional love to 'all-conditional' love & how she now coaches couples to remember what this even means.
๐ด Her current meditation practice and why she created a 'silent retreat in a box' โ a beautiful series of mantra cards to create your own home meditation retreat (definitely check this out!)
Explore Alice's Homepage + Portfolio // UniamoryConnect with Alice on Instagram // @uniamory
Max Stossel is an award-winning poet (whose short films have been seen over 40 million times) advisor to Tech for Humanity, successful filmmaker and all-around wise human who I'm grateful to call a brother.
In this poetic + lyrical conversation we explore:
๐๏ธ The journey that led him from designing notification systems at a social media company to exploring the art and science of attention.
๐ฑ The dangers of smartphone addiction + practical questions as users that we can be asking ourselves
๐ How he describes his work as a blend of poetry, standup comedy and storytelling
๐ How he's found the courage to lean into painful experiences and get curious about heartbreak
๐ฆ How his writing workshop on avoidance and imposter syndrome led to my publishing a short poetry book.
๐โโ๏ธ His experience and insights from leading men's groups and how this work has changed his life for the better
See Max in action // wordsthatmove.com
Connect with Max on Twitter // @MaxStossel
This is one HELL of an episode with honestly one of the most interesting and radical thinkers of our generation.
Jamie is a renaissance man. He's well known for his work writing Stealing Fire and creating the Flow Genome Projectโand as you'll hear in our conversation the book he has just published is unlike anything else you'll ever read.
I see Jamie as being a bridge between the spiritual and the scientific. He's pioneering studies with Johns Hopkins and MAPS whilst wading deep into questions of how to we evolve and mature as humans or in his wordsโhow do we "Stay awake. Build stuff. And help out."
In this conversation which felt more like a science-fiction rhapsody we bounce around between:
๐คฏ Why we're facing a new Meaning Crisis and the dangers of 'Rapture Ideologies'
๐งโโ๏ธ The Hedonic Yoga of Becoming experiment he dreamt up and ran with after a conversation with Roland Grifiths at MAPS
๐ We talk about grief and the real need for cultivating a culture of post-traumatic growth
๐ฎ How he's planning on launching a post-modern religion in hyperspace taking the form of an alternate reality game called Y-ANON.
Truly this has been one of my favourite and mind-bending conversations to dateโif you enjoyed it please take a few moments to share on the socials, go out and buy his book Recapture the Rapture and start experimenting with some of the protocols and practices that he shares (Bonus points if you send Jamie a letter telling him what youโve done!)
๐ Buy Jamieโs New Book // recapturetherapture.com
๐๏ธ Listen to his 'HomeGrown Humans' podcast
๐ธ Follow on IG // @flowgenome
๐ Subscribe to the Flow Genome Newsletter
Dr. Bill Plotkin is a depth psychologist, wilderness guide and visionary ecopsychologistโhis work might well be the map that you didn't know you were looking for.
It has been for me an immense treasure trove of practical wisdom and guidance for thinking about my own growth and maturity.
At the end of our conversation, he shared that this was a book written for future generationsโand I believe it may take decades before the importance of this body of work is fully understood.
I hope that this conversation will play some role in spreading his ideasโand on that note, in this deep dive conversation we explore:
๐ค His definition for what it means to be a genuine adult (and why he believes 80% of humanity are currently stuck in early-stage adolescence)
๐บ๏ธ His map of the five stages of the descent to soul and the path to becoming a true elder
๐ His 'four facets of mind' as a unique framework for personal development a and cultivating human wholeness
โค๏ธ What he calls 'sacred wound work' a story of the weavings of the Native American Dinรฉ people
๐ฅ What I consider my own mythopoetic identity to be based on an insight during a vision fast in Nepal
๐โโ๏ธ The big question that he would have liked to pose to Carl Jung
โ What it means for him to 'fill one's space with a question'
๐ซ His vision for this work to be put into practice by a global network of 'mystery schools'
Read Bill's book //The Journey of Soul InitiationGo Deeper // explore the upcoming Animas Offerings
This seeds for this conversation were planted at the end of last year when I was listening to a podcast called โHack Realityโ and Cris shared her phone number at the end of the episodeโI sent her a voice memo about the Poet David Whyte... we since became good friends and when COVID hit she followed an intuitive hit to reach out and ended up living with us here in Oaxaca Mexico for a month.
Cris has one of the most eclectic backgrounds youโll come across. She went from founding a venture-backed AI fashion company, to hosting a podcast about the future of technology, and more recently has taken a left turn into the world of trauma healing and spent the better part of the last three years designing a card deck for exploring shadow emotionsโwhich is about to launch on Kickstarter.
So as I said, one hell of an eclectic background and as such our conversation dances around between:
๐ฅ Insights from exploring the money stories and the rock bottom moment of having to shut down her company on short notice
๐ฃ Learning how to connect with her intuition following an assignment to follow her curiosity walking barefoot around San Francisco
โค๏ธ Her experiences working with MDMA and LSD-assisted therapy
And then things go off the deep end and she talks about a kundalini awakening experience she had in an ancient Mayan Ruin, and about 52 minutes in Cris shares her roadmap and toolkit for people to begin with Shadow work, navigate existential crises and exploring the roots of their repressed emotions and the vision she has for her card deck being used as an Emotional Guidance System.
๐ I thoroughly encourage you to check-out the card deck Cris spent the last three years designing over on Kickstarter.
Alright, thatโs more than enough rambling from me. If you appreciate this conversation please do give Curious Humans a review on iTunes and share with someone else who you think might appreciate it.
Arthur Worsley is a close friend of mine that I met in Bali where over many dinners together he educated me in the tactics for learning Bhasa, memorising my TEDx talk and really opened my eyes to the world of meta-learning that he has specialised in.
Back in the day, he studied neurophysiology at Oxford in the UK and since became conversationally fluent in 8 languages and also applies his learning superpowers to things like ultra-marathon running and collecting wisdom from the crazy number of books he reads.
In this wide-ranging conversation, we dive into the simultaneous devastating personal loss and financial gain that he received nearly a decade ago and how that was a catalyst for reinventing himself. He also walks me through how he thinks about procrastination and the four main causes of it, his approach for cultivating and tracking mindful metta moments and some thoughts on how his life may be altered by the child that he and his fiancรฉ are expecting.
๐ Read Arthur's book reviews, ongoing meta-learning insights, his habit tracker and (free) book on working less hard here: theartofliving.com
Dr. Christian Busch directs the CGA Global Economy Program at (NYU) and teaches on purpose-driven business, entrepreneurship, emerging markets, and (social) innovation at NYU and at the London School of Economics (LSE). Christian is also the co-founder of Sandbox Network, a leading community of young innovators, as well as of Leaders on Purposeโan organization convening leading CEOs. He has a host of impressive accolades to his name, one of the Davos 50, an RSA fellow and frequently speaks at the World Economic Forum. He's also the author of a fascinating new book called 'The Serendipity Mindset' that we really dive into in this conversation.
๐๏ธ In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about what he learned from his near-death car accident at 17, his journey from economics lecturer to writing a book about cultivating smart luck, surefire ways of having dull conversations and some tangible suggestions for building the muscle of serendipity in one's own life.
๐ You can say hi to Christian on Twitter@ChrisSerendip. And I strongly encourage you to get your mitts on a copy of Christian's new book 'The Serendipity Mindset'
๐ Are you curious and also human? Signup for my monthly musings here >> jonny.life
Casper Ter Kuile is one of the most genuinely joy-filled humans that I have had the pleasure of knowing.
In this conversation we do a deep dive into his new book 'The Power of Ritual' which is out the day this episode airs, itโs honestly a perspective-shifting and heart-warmingly beautiful book on discovering the sacred amidst everyday life and seeing the world through the eyes of ritual. It's a real corker of a conversation! A few of the stories + questions we dive into are:
โช Some of his early experiences as a climate activist that unexpectedly led him to Harvard Divinity School
๐ Redefining what it means for something to be 'sacred'
โณ Why he loves the powerful idea of liturgical time
๐ค What he considers to be some of the enemies of ritual
๐ How to go about designing your own rituals amidst the lockdown.
โค๏ธ Rituals that we've both created to foster meaningful connection with our respective partners amidst the quarantine
๐ How he has managed to create a secular sabbath for himself (and stick to it for over 4 years)
๐งโโ๏ธ His favourite Harry Potter scene (this is unexpectedly powerful!)
๐๏ธ The one lesson that he's taken away from working with the OnBeing team.
Where to find Casper on the interwebs
- Say hi to Casper on Twitter @CaspkerTK
- Join some of the virtual events Casper is leading
- Read 'How We Gather' for free online
- Join Casper's Newsletter (it's superb)
๐ Finally... I strongly encourage you to get your mitts on a copy of Casper's new book 'The Power of Ritual'
๐ Are you curious and also human? Signup for my monthly musings here >> jonny.life
All I can say is that you're in for a treat with this conversation. Erick Godsey studies the myths that make usโhe uses cognitive, evolutionary, and Jungian psychology to help people discover, articulate, and change the stories that rule their lives.
Here is a mere smidge of the ground that we covered:
๐ Erick's view on the broken system of Western medicine and why SSRIs and psychiatric drugs are no better than a placebo.
๐ญ His perspective on a psychological model called 'Internal Family Systems' that articulates the multitudes of characters within us all.
๐งโโ๏ธ The Jungian book on mature masculine archetypes that changed his life and the way he shows up in relationship.
๐ด Why it's worth paying more attention to our dreams.
๐ The journal prompt that he would prescribe to someone who is looking at the world in despair right now and feeling overwhelmed with the crises that are unfolding.
๐ค Why no human is equipped with the biological apparatus to perceive the actual world, but that we create models that are useful to us.
โ The spiritual commitment he made to write morning pages for an hour every day after hitting rock bottom.
โค๏ธ His views on grief as the active process of digesting attachments to love.
๐๏ธ The tragic beauty of the human conditionโthat we suffer so much more than we have to, because of the stories that we tell ourselves
๐บ Why the ego is NOT the enemy, but more like a wolf (and how to join forces with it)
Books & Blog Posts Referenced
- King, Warrior, Magican, Loverโthe book we both read and loved on the four mature masculine archetypes.
- The Life-Changing Magic of Journalingโa must-read post by Erick for anyone wanting to go deeper into internal family systems, journaling practices and Jungian archetypes.
- Prometheus Unchainedโa deep dive into how to share your highest gifts with the world.Where to find Erick G. on the interwebs
๐ธ Instagram @erickgodsey
๐ Erick's Ten Blog Posts You Should Read
๐ Signup for his Feasting Fridays newsletter
๐๏ธ Listen to his Myths that Make us podcast
๐ฐ Support him on Patreon
๐ See the books that changed his myth
๐จโ๐ Join me and take his Make Your Myth online course
๐ Are you curious and also human? Signup for monthly musings here >> jonny.life
This conversation is with a close friend of mine, Andi CuddingtonโI think of her as a modern-day renaissance woman and Iโll typically turn to her for advice if Iโm going through something challenging in my life. Andi is just endlessly curious and has a totally unique lens on the world as youโll hear in our conversation.
She has had a thousand side-hustles and jobs in her non-linear career but many of the dots have connected and she has found her calling designing and facilitating workshopsโmore than anyone else I've encountered, she has mastered of the art + science of workshop facilitation and we do a deep dive into some of her tips and suggestions as well as:
โ๏ธ Unexpected items on her "Apoco-list"
๐ค How weโre both fuelled by the fear of boredom
๐ How backpacking in Africa shaped her future career trajectory
๐๏ธ The intriguring connection between adventure and curiosity
๐จโ๐ Tips for what makes an exceptional facilitation experience
๐ฉโ๐ซ Superb advice for those dipping their toes into virtual workshop creation.
๐ Unlocking the genius in the room, one workshop at a time... and much more!
โโ โโ
๐โโ๏ธ Learn more about Andi's facilitation superpowers here: andicuddington.com
๐ Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
This was a wide-ranging conversation with emotional intelligence coach Emile Steenveldโpreviously an Australian model and actor traveling the globe for 12 yearsโhe now works as a coach + facilitator, focusing on the inner workings of the relationship with the self and the mind.
In this conversation we dive into:
๐ฎ๐ณ Emile's travels in India, learning lessons of simplicity... defining joy as the happiness that doesn't depend on what happens.
๐ฆ One of the most interesting tangents the topic of being a recovering perfectionist and what he calls duck syndrome
๐ช How to build the muscle of emotional intelligence
๐คทโโ๏ธ And some questions that have been running through my mind around Exploring new definitions of masculinity and how to express fully without fear of judgment.
๐ Journal prompts that Emile uses when starting new projects.
โโ โโ
๐ Find out more about Emile's work and coaching here.
๐ Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
๐จโ๐ If our conversation resonates with you, I'm also running a masterclass with Studio D. in San Francisco on March 27โso if that sounds interesting check them out here: https://studiodradiodurans.com/products/emotional-resillience-masterclass
I talk with Andy Sparks, is the CEO at Holloway, they're building a new way to publish non-fiction books online (and it's gorgeous!) He's an incredibly genuine and self-aware human, it was a real pleasure spending time learning about his journey stepping into a position of leadership and forging his own path in life.
Andy shares really dark moments early on in his career when he was trying to figure out where your sense of self comes from as a young person and figure out his place in the world.
In this episode we also dive into:
๐ฆ What it was like making the decision to close his company (and how he navigated a deep depression that followed)
๐คฃ The fun story behind his Calvin Hobbes tattoo
๐จโ๐ญ Why getting an executive coach has been one of the most important things in his professional career
๐งฐ Some powerful advice he received on how to build a support network from the founder of Masterclass
๐ How he now aims to navigate conflict with his cofounder at Holloway
๐โโ๏ธ Taking responsibility for what we feel and why you don't have a choice about bring your kookiness and trauma to work
๐ค We also nerd out on some of his leadership mental models and frameworks that he has gathered over the years of being a founder and CEO
โ โ
๐ Follow Andy's musings on Twitter @Sparkszilla // read his Medium essay on confidence or check Holloway (especially if you're a non-fiction writer).
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
๐จโ๐ If our conversation resonates with you, I'm also running a masterclass with Studio D. in San Francisco on March 27โso if that sounds interesting check them out here: https://studiodradiodurans.com/products/emotional-resillience-masterclass
If you haven't already heard of Breathwork, I think it's fair to say that you that you likely will have by the end of the year. It's exploding in popularity, in the same way that yoga and meditation has over the last decade, and I think for good reason.
On a basic level breathwork is the practice of changing your breathing pattern to shift your mental, emotional and physical state... but what I deeply appreciate about Edward is his clinical approach that is backed by years of training, endocrinology research and self-experimentation mapping out the human nervous system.
The aim of this conversation was to create something of a comprehensive beginners guide to breathwork and some of the areas we dive into are:
๐ Ed's personal journey from being trapped in an avalanche and nearly dying, which led him to being a highly functioning alcoholic and depressive.
๐ฌ His experiences curing anxiety through 1-1 breathwork sessions with his clients
๐ฌ๏ธ Why our thinking is directly influenced by our breathing
๐บ๏ธ How he has been able to map certain emotions onto specific breathing patterns.
๐งโโ๏ธ What he learnt from living with the Canadian Tribal Elders
๐โโ๏ธ Some of my personal experiences lying on Ed's breathwork table
๐ Defining capacity + resiliency from the perspective of the nervous system.
๐ฒ Some of the healing that he has witnessed in his time guiding sessions: from a man who relived and processed a near-drowning experience to stories of women who have been able to process experiences of sexual abuse.
Links and Further Resources:
๐ธ Follow @edwarddangerfield and @breathworkbali
๐ Check out BreathworkBali.com
๐ Ed's Breathwork book recommendations
๐ My friend Conni's guide to breathwork resources
Ed's Upcoming Breathwork Practitioner Trainings are a 5 Day Training in Bali (Feb 15 โ 21) and a 14 Day in-depth training in BC Canada (May 15 โ June 1) I will be attending both myself!
I'm speaking with Andrew J Taggart, a practical philosopher, Zen Buddhist, and entrepreneur urging us to wake up to what we have so far taken for granted.
In this conversation we discuss the thesis of his Total Work Manifesto and why we use our work and productivity to fuel our sense of self-worth and create meaning in our lives, as well as his compelling ideas for how we might break out of this Total Work prison that he calls Way of Loss and the Way of Wonderment.
I should also mention that about one and half hours in, I ask Andrew to imagine an all hands on deck academy, or ecology of practices designed to become whole and integrated humans.
His answer is insightful but the day after our conversation he wrote up an extended reply which he has posted on his blogwith the title 'A Tentative Curriculum For Psycho-technologies Of Self-transformation' (it's well worth a read!)
Show Notes:
๐ Say hello to Andrew on Twitter ๐Subscribe to Andrew's ongoing Total Work Manifesto on Substack ๐ Read Andrew's philosophical writing ๐๏ธ Follow his emerging conversations over on letter.wiki
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here: jonny.life
In this conversation we get into the meaty questions about his new book that's hitting the shelves this week called 'Why Are We Yelling', a whimsical and disarmingly powerful case and strategy guide for having what Buster calls productive disagreement.
We cover three truths or misconceptions about arguments that you have uncovered, why he likes to eat knowledge, he coaches me through the process of engaging in a disagreement around climate change and we talk about some of the enemies of curiosity and what he calls the voice of possibility.
Then towards the end we explore some fun ground around:
๐ Why he's writing a 'Codex Vitae'
๐ His 100th birthday plans
๐ What death-bed points are
๐ท Why he took a photo at exactly 8.36pm every day for almost a decade.
Check out Buster's New Book // Why Are We Yelling: The Art of Productive Disagreement
Buster's Website // busterbenson.com
Buster on Twitter // @buster
Buster on Letter Wiki // Letter.Wiki
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
This was a real honour, Mike is trained as a magician and also the CEO at 'High Existence' โ a community and network of practical philosophy and for expanding human consciousness โ and he's one of the most articulate and poetic people I've had the pleasure of meeting.
If we can't fall in love with the privilege that we have to be alive, then anything that we try and do from this place of living, is is going to be limited."
Mike and I riff on definitions of wonder, ambition, grief, the role of inviting in the unexpected, the difference between purpose and destiny, and so much more.
Get in touch with Mike on Twitter// where he cultivates wisdom & wonder @highexistence
Anne-Laure is an ex-Googler, a talented writer and part-time neuroscience student. We bounce around between topics that resonated with me personally including: time anxiety, why we don't tend to take curiosity seriously as adults, a powerful technique for personal growth she's developed called 'Mindframing' and her recent decision to leave Google in order to go back to study neuroscience at Kings in London.
Find Anne-Laure on Twitter, read her articles on Ness Labs or sign-up for her Maker Mind newsletter.
I've been listening to Cory's podcast the Astral Hustle for years now so had so much fun being on the other end of the line and digging into his fascinating mindโhe has an amazing gift for walking a line between being ridiculous and playful yet also filled with deep insights and practical tips on mindfulness.
We didn't have time to cover it in this episode but Cory has a background in music and also produces Binaural Beats, which I've been using daily for the last few months to both meditate and focus at work โ and you can find these as well as the lowdown on his new book 'Now is the Way' โ which is available from today at nowistheway.com ๐
This was another of those conversations that just lit me up ๐ฅit felt like the time flew by but we bounced between the role of humour in spiritual exploration and the 'upside of impermanence' to some of the more practical aspects meditation, how it changes the way we experience the world and how we can get out of our own way to risk being more human.
"The fragments of the self that are shattered you know the different pieces of you that exist within theyโre the broken pieces of the mirror that been through the meditation or through creating the space they have the space to start to reconnect into one singular piece of mirror of yourself so that you can look into it and quote-unquote reflect and then begin to understand what you are and then begin to author your future." โ Cory Allen***
๐Read the full transcript with Cory here.
๐Cory's new book 'Now is the Way' is officially out today and I would thoroughly encourage you all to head over to nowistheway.comand add it to your respective reading lists.
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >>jonny.life
๐Iโve probably said this before, but this feels like my favourite conversation on the podcast so far.
โฐ I woke up at 5am to take the call because of time-zone differences, but by the end I was practically bouncing off the walls with enthusiasm.
๐ Tiago is one of the deepest thinkers of anyone that I follow online, heโs a prolific writer, productivity coach and as youโll hear in this conversation has built his business to fuel his own relentless curiosity.
๐ You wouldnโt imagine that productivity systems and psychedelics usually pair well in a conversation, but it turns out they do!
๐ซTiago also shares some powerful personal stories relating to his experiences using breathwork to process anger, how he is learning to tap into his intuition and a vision that came to him for building a school for future in Brazil.
๐View the transcript of the episode here.
๐Links and resources mentioned:
+ The home of Tiago's writing ๐ Forte Labs
+ The online course we dive into ๐ Building a Second Brain
+ Follow Tiago on Twitter
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
This was one of those spontaneous conversations that made me feel grateful for having started a podcast...
it was with NASA astronomer Kevin Hainline, recorded sitting next to a stream up in the Spanish pyrenees. We went completely off the deep end and I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that he changed the way I look up at the night sky and sent me into a rabbit hole of researching how different cultures around the world tell stories about the constellations they see.
๐ฆWhen Kevin was young he had to choose between dedicating his life to studying dinosaurs or black holes. He chose black holes (although dinosaurs are still very near to his heart).
๐The surprising reason behind why we have seasons...
๐Why for Kevin: "The stars are like friends. They comfort me."
๐ญHow astronomy helps you as a lens to understand yourself and why people should choose a way in which they want to look at the stars.
๐Kevin's personal mission to communicate how important it is that we live in a diverse and interesting and weird world and to celebrate that.
Listener Question >> โWhat are some of the gateways to awe and wonder for you in the world?โ
Find Kevin on the Interwebs+ Twitter @kevin_hainline
+ His new video series The Stars Connect Us on YouTube
Show Notes:+Full Transcript on Medium
+ The Explorer Book
-
The Exploratorium in San Francisco, a temple to curiosity.
-
Infinite Games by James Carse
-
DK Encyclopedia homepage
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
Our future is in good hands... it's the 'grown-ups' that have the catching up to do!
๐ท Follow Hanalei on Instagram @Hanaleiswan
๐ Check out her conscious fashion designs at http://hanaleiswan.com
๐Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
๐โโ๏ธFergal Smith is a big-wave surfer and pioneering farmer, two words that don't often go in the same sentence.
๐จโ๐พHe juggles his time between growing veg and paddling into 30ft slabs of Atlantic ocean swells! I spent a couple of days helping out at Moy Hill, getting my hands in the soil and helping the team fill their 90x veg boxes to be sent out that week.
๐ณ What I hope comes across in the conversation is Ferg's eloquent sincerity, the courage that it took and his vision to inspire a new generation of 'growers' and planting seeds for future generations (theyโve already planted 18,000 trees!)
โListener Question >> โWhat are some ways that you've found to reconnect with the food you eat?"
Learn more about the Moy Hill project and how you can get involved at moyhillfarm.com or follow their growing adventures on Instagram @moyhillfarm.
Be notified about new episodes and receive the Curious Humans newsletter here >> jonny.life
Joel Levey was one of the first pioneers of mindfulness training back in the 70s, along with his partner Michelle, they worked with Google and NASA and co-designed a secret 'Jedi Warrior' program for the US elite special forces... in this conversation we touch on:
๐คHis thoughts on how to be curious in the face of suffering.
๐ค Why he chose to embark on a year of silence with his partner Michelle.
๐ Advice that received from the His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
โListener Question >> โHow could you bring more mindful moments into your daily routine?โ
Joel Levey is respected for being among the very first professionals to introduce the principles and practices of mindfulness and mind-fitness training, interpersonal neurobiology, collective wisdom, deep systems thinking, and contemplative science into mainstream business, medicine, high-education, sports, and government arenas โ having begun this work in the 70s.
Learn more about the Levey's work at: http://wisdomatwork.com
Explore their upcoming Learning Expedition: http://learningexpedition.work/
๐ณ Dan has worked with some of the most innovative and inspiring brands, kickstarted a global movement to reconnect kids with nature, founded and built a global creative generosity network and guest lectures on Co-Creating the Emerging Future.
๐ง Oh and heโs also a former club DJ, as well as a trail running surf-loving dad! I was so grateful for the long walks and meandering conversations we shared in Portugal, Danโs enthusiasm for life is contagious and heโs someone who believes in the extraordinary possibilities for the future ๐
โ Listener Question: What are some of your favourite ways to 'Rewild Yourself'?
Find out more about Dan on his website: danburgess.earthor say hi on Twitter @dansolos.
๐Curious Humans NewsletterIf youโre not already subscribed you can also sign-up for my free monthly curious humans newsletter by going to jonny.life and also get monthly nuggets of brain food that Iโve found in the corners of the internet.
๐ตMusical Credits Thanks so much to the Heinali who generously provided the musical accompaniments.
Anna Starkey is a genuine 21st century renaissance woman! In this wide-ranging conversation with dig into:
๐จโ๐ From lecturing on antimatter and working as the 'director of impossible projects' to performing stand-up comedy sketches...
๐๏ธ producing live arts shows for global cinema and gracing the TED stage with her talk: 'Do Not Press the Big Red Button'... her life is a testament to embracing curiosity as a career path!
๐ฉโ๐We dive deep into her zig-zag career (which begun with her dream of being an astronaut), the latest research on curiosity as 'the knowledge emotion' and waxing lyrical on her current mission of ushering in a new age of curiosity!
Listener Question >> โWhat are some of the enemies to curiosity in your life โ and how might we nudge others to take it more seriously?โ
Follow Anna on Twitter @annastarkey โ find out about more of her work at outofyourmind.london and check out wethecurious.org to learn more about the incredible Bristol-based museum.
๐Curious Humans NewsletterIf youโre not already subscribed you can also sign-up for my free monthly curious humans newsletter by going to jonny.life and also get monthly nuggets of brain food that Iโve found in the corners of the internet.
๐ตMusical Credits Thanks so much to the Heinali who generously provided the musical accompaniments.
I sat down with Austin in Portland, Oregon and we dive into some of his experience at the fascinating Wayfinding Academy. Hearing his vulnerable story gave me hope.
We talk about the courage required to step outside the curiosity-crippling traditional system into what he called the 'space between stories' and develop new worldviews.
I found it inspiring to see the path that he has now found which feels more aligned with the human he aspires to become.
๐Show Notes:****
๐ซ I thoroughly recommend that you check out Wayfinding Academy in Portland & their manifesto
๐ท Follow Austin's creative adventures on Instagram @AustinLouis_
โListener Question >> โWhat subjects might you include in a curriculum that was fit for the future?โ Tag @jonnym1ller on Twitter or Instagram.
๐Curious Humans Newsletter >> If youโre not already subscribed you can also sign-up for my free monthly curious humans newsletter by going to jonny.life and also get monthly nuggets of brain food that Iโve found in the corners of the internet.
๐ตMusical Credits >> Thanks so much to the Heinali who generously provided the musical accompaniments.
Leo Babauta is the prolific writer of Zen Habits who is joining me from the distant island of Guam 7,400 miles away. Here are a few tasters for what to expect in this wide-ranging conversation:
๐จ How Zen Habits evolved into his mission to help others push into their uncertainty.
๐จโ๐ How Leo unschooled and de-programmed his kids to facilitate their own natural state of curiosity.
๐ Leo's compelling case for why a fully-optimised life would actually suck and risks being the most controlled boring thing possible.
๐ช Developing and training 'radical curiosity' to dive inwards even when you don't like what you're seeingโhow to hold the pose when you're entire body wants to shut down and run.
๐คผ What he's learned about learning and his no-holds-barred debate with Tim Ferriss on the idea of abandoning goals.
๐งโโ๏ธ The incredible Zen Habits origin story โ his path from being in debt, overweight, a smoker and feeling miserable to escaping debt, gaining a following of over a million readers, publishing books on habit-change, finding joy and even running an ultra-marathon!
๐ Read theFull Transcript hereover on Medium
โListener Question >> โHow do you feel about the balance between achievement and appreciation?โ Tag @jonnym1ller on Twitter or Instagram.
๐ Join Leo's new Fearless Academy and support his mission.
๐จโ๐ Learn more about hisSea ChangeHabit Academy
๐๏ธ Join over 2 million readers of Leo's Zen Habits
๐ฆ Find Leo on Twitter @Zen_Habits
๐Curious Humans NewsletterIf youโre not already subscribed you can also sign-up for my free monthly curious humans newsletter by going to jonny.life and also get monthly nuggets of brain food that Iโve found in the corners of the internet.
๐ตMusical Credits Thanks so much to the Heinali who generously provided the musical accompaniments.
There are maybe a handful to times in your life where you discover a book, that you want to keep by your bedside for the rest of your life. And for me that book is David's โConsolationsโ. It ratcheted open my mind to a whole new perspective on the definitions of words like Ambition, Courage and Heartbreak, that I thought I previously understood.
Iโm not sure how to even begin to describe exactly what it is that David does. On paper he's an acclaimed poet, a writer and a philosopher. But to my mind, after having recently spent a magical week with him on the Irish Atlantic coastline, I feel like he's a true elder, with a deep philosophical curiosity and gift for weaving together our inner and outer worlds in what he calls 'the conversational nature of realityโ.
We recorded this conversation, in David's cottage by a roaring fire. You can probably hear how nervous I felt, especially early in the first few minutes. But what I really hope comes across, is the way that Davidโs voice casts a spell of sorts that puts those listening (myself included) into a state of reverie and complete undiluted attention.
Itโs a wide-ranging conversation and towards the end we cover some really interesting ground on the questions he believes weโre living our way into as a society, and how Trump is a representation of everything that is wrong with the masculine picture of an immature boy that has never grown fully into the world.
โListener Question >> "Do you have a favourite poem that you carry with you? How has poetry shaped your life?โ Tag @jonnym1ller on Twitter or Instagram.
๐ Show Notes + Read the full transcript (with my photos of Ireland) over on Medium
๐ Explore David's work:+ Follow David on Twitter or Facebook + Read 'The Bell & The Blackbird'.
+ Apply for one of David's upcoming walking tours in Ireland, the Lake District, Tuscany & New Zealand
+ Watch David's TED Talk 'A lyrical bridge between past, present and future'
+ Find out everything else David is up to at davidwhyte.com
๐Curious Humans NewsletterIf youโre not already subscribed you can also sign-up for my free monthly curious humans newsletter by going to jonny.life and also get monthly nuggets of brain food that Iโve found in the corners of the internet.
๐ตMusical Credits Thanks so much to the Heinali who generously provided the musical accompaniments.
Karina Guthrie is a yoga teacher at The Practice with a background in academia studying psychology and philosophy.
We covered a lot of ground, touching on:
๐ why her parents would confiscate abridged books from her as a child and the book she would love to write one day.
๐ซ the story of how she left a career in academia to follow her curiosity in the yoga world
๐งโโ๏ธ the importance of becoming more Kinaesthetically literate in the 21st century
๐ the difference between knowledge and lived wisdom
โค๏ธ favourite untranslatable words
๐ซ thoughts on yoga as a spiritual technology for re-connecting us with the 'bigness of the universeโ and all that which takes us beyond ourselves.
โListener Question >> โWhat is the project or creative endeavour that youโve been putting off โ and what might be a way to start it before you feel totally ready?โ
You can follow her bombshells of wisdom & thoughtful yogic musings @karina.guthrie on Instagram.
Say hi on Twitter or sign-up for the Curious Humans Newsletter.
I truly believe that CURIOSITY is the birthplace of knowledge and creativityโฆ itโs a gateway to awe & wonder โ for the world around usโ allowing us to experience the familiar, as if for the first time. It has been called the insight emotion, the key to life-long learning and recent studies have even cited it as the antidote to anxiety & depression.
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If weโre all born with this innate sense of curiosity, why do most of us lose touch with it in our teenage years? I know that in my own life, I felt like my experiences at school nearly crushed many of my interests... And in our productivity obsessed culture I struggle to justify investing time or money into something that doesnโt have a defined outcome...
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So really this podcast is a personal journey to turn the lens of curiosity back on itself, to find out how courageous humans have dared to take it more seriously and exploring insights that the rest of us can learn from their journeys.
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In Season One you can expect fireside conversations with the TED speaker and poet David Whyte, youโll learn how astronomy is a lens for understanding yourself with a NASA researcher Kevin Hainline, how Yoga can be a technology for cultivating better humans with Karina Guthrie, and thoughts on curiosity from 12 year old conscious fashion designer Hanalei Swan.
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Each guest will share a beautiful and mind-expanding question for you to take with you on your own adventures hopefully leaving you a little bit more curious than you were before.
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If you like the sound of all this... it would mean a lot to me if you can take 15 seconds to open up whichever app you listen to podcasts on and give Curious Humans a 5 star review and share this trailer with fellow curious humans.
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๐Subscribe to the monthly Curious Humans Newsletter
๐Say hi on Twitter